# Poor misunderstood white kids....



## SailDesign

https://storify.com/betakateenin/white-people-riots

Yeah - I know all about how this is a Liberal False-Flag Conspiracy-Theorist website.

But just for some counter-point ...


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## paratrooper

No matter the color of the skin, when it comes to crime, it's all about opportunity.


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## hillman

paratrooper said:


> No matter the color of the skin, when it comes to crime, it's all about opportunity.


Well, opportunity, upbringing, ''peer group' influence, degree of stupidity. All of those and probably some stuff I don't know about.


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## pic

Take em down , no matter the color, or reason. If we allow it to happen on a regular basis, it will happen on a regular basis


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## Cait43

Lady justice is blindfolded as is crime.........

Crime has no boundaries when comes to color, race, religion, sexual preference, etc.


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## PT111Pro

> paratrooper
> No matter the color of the skin, when it comes to crime, it's all about opportunity.


That is the truth. In this moment you call criminal inocent kids and blame the police for what happen, you will have criminals they trap and play the police wherever they can. If you call a criminal that just robbed a store walking down the street trhat get stoped by a police officer and refused arrest by fighting against the officer with all his 250 pound a innocent child you create monsters on the street.

If someone starting to call criminals, that riot killing, looting and burning their way trough Ferguson DSemonstrators and not Criminal Monsters you create a Monster that you can not stop with police force anymore.

If you go and call Muslemic terrorist attacks and Muslim Sharia law extreme Islam and denial that this is far from extreme, it is the authentic Islam nothing else. If you let them, they will kill and behead, hang or stone anyone that is not a Muslim, even Muslims that are in the wrong Muslim congregation. Suni killing Shiaa and they kill Whabits and so on and on. Therefore is it not even safe to convert to Islam because when the Congregation in Town changes, you get killed again. That is actually what this religion is all about. Muslims still wait for their Messiahs and the Islam Messiahs can only come when all non Muslims are destroyed. It is a holy duty for any Muslim to kill every non Muslim (none believers means in Islam the other Muslim faiths than the one that the attacker has, chirstians, jews, buddhist, hinduists, pagans, atheists etc..) and it is a holy service to their god to do so. Whome ever refuces to kill a non beliefer must be killed in accordance to Sharia law even if s/he is a right believer. That includes even politic societies when they don't accept Sharia law. That is the reason why the liberals all over the world accepting sharia and belief that will do the trick as a communist politician to get spared. That is the reason why any jihadist comes directly in Paradise if he get killed in the holy war of Islam.

All of this groups are daingerous in itself but this kind of anarchy was always used to implement socialistic tyranny.

No one in his right mind will ever vote for a socialistic system. That is te reason why they using so many names. Leninist, Stalinist, Communist, socialist, humanists, liberal, progressive and many more names. As soon the people realize what is behind the political correct definition of a name, they change it to something else. But inside is allays the same.
First they create anarchy and life threatening environments street riots. The second step is than they offer rescue from all that anarchy, promises stability and safety. That is when the people accept socialism and dictatorship. Socialism can always go only so far and than the people just refuse dictatorships.
But if it looks like the only hope is dictatorship to end that insanity, burning rioting, looting, killing. That is how Hitler, Stalin and the others made it to power. 
No one want to know that but even Jews voted in the German election in 1928 and 1933 for Hitler. Hitler looked like the smaller evil, and Hitler promised to make an end with all that criminals on the street. The same with Stalin in Russia and so on. That is how they did it, alll the time. 
And btw it is historical the biggest cup that liberals ever did to make people believe that Hitler was a conservative. Hitler was the leader of the Socialistic Worker Party of Germany and therefore a classic liberal.


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## desertman

PT111Pro:


> All of this groups are daingerous in itself but this kind of anarchy was always used to implement socialistic tyranny.


You're a good man, "PT". You're a good man.


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## BackyardCowboy

Cait43 said:


> Lady justice is blindfolded as is crime.........
> 
> Crime has no boundaries when comes to color, race, religion, sexual preference, etc.


Love it. If only MORE people would take this advice to heart.


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## Steve M1911A1

Well, first of all, those White kids were rioting for important reasons: Sports-team wins or losses.
It's not as if the reason was meaningless, like racial difficulties, for instance.

Whether the rioters are White, Black, or Green and Purple, they are exhibiting the outcome of the greatest problem that our civilization now faces: A total lack of individual self-control, having as its origin continuing lessons, all through childhood, that there is no requirement that one accept personal responsibility for one's acts.

Seattle anxiously awaits May 1st, May Day, the traditional workers' holiday. For some unknowable reason, May Day in Seattle has been coöpted by young people who think of themselves as anarchists. Wearing Guy Fawkes masks, skiing masks, and black hoods, they rampage through Seattle's downtown area, destroying property and businesses in the name of "freedom," whatever that means.
I sometimes think of the, um, good people of Watts (a Los Angeles suburb), who rioted many years ago and burned down the entire Watts business district. The businesspeople moved elsewhere, of course, and refused to rebuild their destroyed businesses. And then the, um, good people of Watts had the gall to complain that there were no longer any nearby food markets, gas stations, banks, and other essential services.

There is no freedom without the concomitant acceptance of responsibility.

(A truly anarchistic society is self-governing, composed of people who take individual responsibility for themselves and their acts, and who, therefore, act responsibly toward others.)


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## SailDesign

Interesting viewpoint from the owner of the Orioles, too. I mean, it's baseball, it MUST be American, right?

Orioles COO John Angelos offers eye-opening perspective on Baltimore protests | For The Win


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## pic

His viewpoint doesn't hit the mark in my opinion.

Like I've said before, our country is contaminated with drugs. Outsourcing jobs didn't create the drug problem.

I've witnessed many people lose their jobs because of their drug addiction.
Contrary to the Orioles COO , claiming people are using drugs because of the lack of jobs.


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## Steve M1911A1

Thanks, Steve!
Good piece, that.
I gotta agree with his thesis.


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## paratrooper

Crime isn't the end result of any one dysfunction. It's been around for as long as man has. It's a by-product of man's existence, as well as a myriad of other issues and problems we've created. 

It's not going anywhere. It's part and parcel of our society. It's a part of our very being. It's deeply embedded in our genes. Some of us manage it better than others. Some of us rationalize it better than others. 

We can cherry pick reasons as to why it exists and what we can do about it. No matter what we say or do, it's always going to exist in one form or another. We simply are not capable of making it go away. All we can do is live with it and respond to it as best we can.


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## PT111Pro

Early on in my life I want to know How the 3th Reich, Hitler and all those people ever could make it. My Grand-Grandpa, my Grandpa and my father didn't look insane. So what happen?
The Communist / socialist promised free healthcare, a citizen income without work and a Radio with a disc player (absolute high tech in that time) which they did. The people became the Peoplereceiver (Radio) and were even promissed a Automobiele (Hitlers people Car or the Volkswagen Bug). 
Was it this? No it was not really, to many still smelled what going on and did not follow.

Between 1918 and 1922 the communists created 83 different communistic Parties in Germany. There was the Socialist Farmer party of Germany, There was created a socialistic Plumber Party, there was created a German communist unemployed party, the German social transfer receivers party, the international communist movement, the national socialistic movement, the socialist movement, the national socialistic butcher party of Germany, and for sure the national socialistic worker party of Germany (NSDAP) and so on and on and on.... Each of this socialistic / communist parties had their politically correct protected street criminals. in 1920-1922 the police did not know anymore when is it allowed to respond to criminal activities because to many criminal groups where politically protected. That was called back than not political correctness, they called it staats raeson (State Reson) but it meant the same. 
And almost each socialistic / communist party had their own militant street group, like the red army fraction, the liberators of the liberal movement, the antifascist youth, etc and also mention the Group out of the National Socialistic Worker Party of Germany (NSDAP) had the Hitler youth and the SA Sturm Abteilung (Assault Division). All this groups and street criminals were rioting the streets day and night.

A store yesterday still there, tomorrow burned out by politically motivated street anarchists or so called activists.

Why did the people celebrate it like a new messiahs when Hitler said in the election champagne there are 83 worker parties, 22 Christian parties, number and number parties and he, he promised to sweep them all out so they will be never found again. 

Why did the people applaud, why did they stamp with their feed beating a rhythm of approval when Hitler said that? Become they over night all insane? All of a sudden they was anti democratic and pro dictatorship?
No they where not insane. But with all this communistic socialistic chaos and anarchy the socialists created, no one knew when they come and kill them. Calling the police diodn't help because they did not know what group actually did the harm and the stats raeson had to be kept. A father that left in the morning the home to go to work, where may not seen ever again when he fall in the hands of street rioters or that Para militant socialistic party gangs.

Hitler promised not to get rid of political parties, well he did sure but what the people heard was he get rid of all political protected and privileged street criminals. And he did.

In the election 1933 Hitler said Didn't I promises that I get rid of all the street gangs? He said today in Germany everyone can sleep in the cities and suburban in the parks on a bench and no one will bother them. He said many of them criminals even in high political rangs that were laughing in 1928 about honest citizens are not laughing at all anymore and they which still dream they can build street criminals and militant groups will get captured and probably will not laugh tomorrow eighter.

Yea but with that peace all the free speech was gone and people was supervised into the underwear and socks by the new government. A criminal that stole or robbet was not only thrown in prison, the entire family went to Auschwitz, into the Warshau Ghetto or to Bergenbelsen. 

They do that always the same. First they privilege street criminals, create anarchy like in Ferguson, Baltimore. It will be more and more in the US that way. And when than anarchy and fear in the streets are sitting like the morning fog in fall, than they offer their help to get rid of all that socialistic / communistic created anarchy in exchange to a dictatorship. It is actually black mail but they are in power when no one stops them early enough.

I asked Mr. Konzelmann, a Jewish MD Doctor that had survived the Holocaust in the Bergenbelsen Camp, why on earth he as a Jew voted in 1928 and in 1933 for Hitler. Did he not know what they stand for?
He said and that is not a joke. He thought that Hitler cant be more worse than the socialistic / communistic street criminals from that time. What the difference to get in prison or get burned alive in the own house by street criminals that do that only to see how people burn and still get protected by the governments, political party and media. Mr Konzelmann said to me, no one really believed that it become so bad for Jews than it ended up. And the people had no other Joyce. Get killed in a camp later or burned alive may be the very next night by liberal street fighters is there a difference? At least surviving in a camp is the better chance. They red the Book "Mein Kampf" but still believed that a socialist cant be that bad. Actually they called them social or liberal themselves. 

When we not protecting our police force from political correctness, let hate speeches by the Al's hapen, Teachers are allowed to poison our children minds with communistic ideas and insanities, we will accept a dictator because we will not have a different Joyce. That is how Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, PolPot, Mao and all the others came in power.

If we look the other way and don't argue with so called liberals and their insane ideology we have not learned a thing from history and deserve a dictator. 
There are still elections to come, use your vote wisely. 

It starts whit them. If a liberal government offers you 1 Dollar for free you have to understand, that they have to steal that from your neighbor first. If they promisse you to get stuff for free and you don't have to earn it. You have to understand that goods not falling from the sky, liberals have to enslave someone that works in camps for free, otherwise they cannot distribute anything for free. Or there will be no goods and food because no one will make it. 

Butting Hitler, Stalin and Mao in the conservative corner is the biggest cup that liberals ever landed. They all where classic liberals and socialists.

I wrote it even if I know that not many want to know it. But may the one or the other start to think about something and that is what I wanted.


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## desertman

The police commissioner of Baltimore was just asked at a news conference as to why they didn't act earlier. His answer was "we've got 14, 15, and 16 year old kids out there, you didn't expect us to use force against them did you?" I guess in his mind these poor babies are not capable of that kind of violence even while they were committing it right under his own nose. Unbelievable! Then they have a mayor who said that "for those who want to destroy we will allow them space". Progressive leadership at it's finest. One has to wonder just who's side are these people on? No wonder they do not want law abiding people to have guns. In spite of all this they keep electing Democrats whose real goal is to keep these people oppressed and indebted to them based on false promises and lies. That government is their savior. These people are only being used as pawns to enrich the lives of the greedy power hungry politicians who wish to rule over and control every aspect of their lives. When are these people ever going to realize that dependency on government will do nothing but condemn them to a life of poverty and despair?


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## hillman

To deny the callous indifference of the 1% is to deny reality.


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## desertman

PT111Pro:
From one history buff to another: You've got an impressive knowledge of history! Makes me feel good all over. Wasn't it Santayana who penned this quote? "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." How quickly people forget.


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## PT111Pro

Believe me desertman, when you 5 years old and people call you a NAZI and you don't have a single idea what they talking about, I promise, you start to digg because you want to know it. 

Today they call a lot of people NZIS in special conservatives. The most that fingerpointing to others an call them NAZIS have not a single Idea what a NAZI really is and what they stand for. I see only the good old liberals hat's for me already close enough. Pray to god that the old liberal Socialist like Hitler, Gobbels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, PolPot never come again. Whatever name they may use today.


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## desertman

PT111Pro:


> The most that fingerpointing to others an call them NAZIS have not a single Idea what a NAZI really is and what they stand for.


Reminds me of a line from the "Wizard of OZ" when Dorothy says to the "Scarecrow": Well if you don't have any brains how can you talk? To which the "Scarecrow" replied: A lot of people without any brains do an awful lot of talking. There's just too much of this around these days. L. Frank Baum was a clever man. Hang in there brother!


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## Shipwreck

Great post PT111Pro. I guess I can overlook you being a Taurus fan :anim_lol:

Great post


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## Goldwing

PT111Pro said:


> Early on in my life I want to know How the 3th Reich, Hitler and all those people ever could make it. My Grand-Grandpa, my Grandpa and my father didn't look insane. So what happen?
> The Communist / socialist promised free healthcare, a citizen income without work and a Radio with a disc player (absolute high tech in that time) which they did. The people became the Peoplereceiver (Radio) and were even promissed a Automobiele (Hitlers people Car or the Volkswagen Bug).
> Was it this? No it was not really, to many still smelled what going on and did not follow.
> 
> Between 1918 and 1922 the communists created 83 different communistic Parties in Germany. There was the Socialist Farmer party of Germany, There was created a socialistic Plumber Party, there was created a German communist unemployed party, the German social transfer receivers party, the international communist movement, the national socialistic movement, the socialist movement, the national socialistic butcher party of Germany, and for sure the national socialistic worker party of Germany (NSDAP) and so on and on and on.... Each of this socialistic / communist parties had their politically correct protected street criminals. in 1920-1922 the police did not know anymore when is it allowed to respond to criminal activities because to many criminal groups where politically protected. That was called back than not political correctness, they called it staats raeson (State Reson) but it meant the same.
> And almost each socialistic / communist party had their own militant street group, like the red army fraction, the liberators of the liberal movement, the antifascist youth, etc and also mention the Group out of the National Socialistic Worker Party of Germany (NSDAP) had the Hitler youth and the SA Sturm Abteilung (Assault Division). All this groups and street criminals were rioting the streets day and night.
> 
> A store yesterday still there, tomorrow burned out by politically motivated street anarchists or so called activists.
> 
> Why did the people celebrate it like a new messiahs when Hitler said in the election champagne there are 83 worker parties, 22 Christian parties, number and number parties and he, he promised to sweep them all out so they will be never found again.
> 
> Why did the people applaud, why did they stamp with their feed beating a rhythm of approval when Hitler said that? Become they over night all insane? All of a sudden they was anti democratic and pro dictatorship?
> No they where not insane. But with all this communistic socialistic chaos and anarchy the socialists created, no one knew when they come and kill them. Calling the police diodn't help because they did not know what group actually did the harm and the stats raeson had to be kept. A father that left in the morning the home to go to work, where may not seen ever again when he fall in the hands of street rioters or that Para militant socialistic party gangs.
> 
> Hitler promised not to get rid of political parties, well he did sure but what the people heard was he get rid of all political protected and privileged street criminals. And he did.
> 
> In the election 1933 Hitler said Didn't I promises that I get rid of all the street gangs? He said today in Germany everyone can sleep in the cities and suburban in the parks on a bench and no one will bother them. He said many of them criminals even in high political rangs that were laughing in 1928 about honest citizens are not laughing at all anymore and they which still dream they can build street criminals and militant groups will get captured and probably will not laugh tomorrow eighter.
> 
> Yea but with that peace all the free speech was gone and people was supervised into the underwear and socks by the new government. A criminal that stole or robbet was not only thrown in prison, the entire family went to Auschwitz, into the Warshau Ghetto or to Bergenbelsen.
> 
> They do that always the same. First they privilege street criminals, create anarchy like in Ferguson, Baltimore. It will be more and more in the US that way. And when than anarchy and fear in the streets are sitting like the morning fog in fall, than they offer their help to get rid of all that socialistic / communistic created anarchy in exchange to a dictatorship. It is actually black mail but they are in power when no one stops them early enough.
> 
> I asked Mr. Konzelmann, a Jewish MD Doctor that had survived the Holocaust in the Bergenbelsen Camp, why on earth he as a Jew voted in 1928 and in 1933 for Hitler. Did he not know what they stand for?
> He said and that is not a joke. He thought that Hitler cant be more worse than the socialistic / communistic street criminals from that time. What the difference to get in prison or get burned alive in the own house by street criminals that do that only to see how people burn and still get protected by the governments, political party and media. Mr Konzelmann said to me, no one really believed that it become so bad for Jews than it ended up. And the people had no other Joyce. Get killed in a camp later or burned alive may be the very next night by liberal street fighters is there a difference? At least surviving in a camp is the better chance. They red the Book "Mein Kampf" but still believed that a socialist cant be that bad. Actually they called them social or liberal themselves.
> 
> When we not protecting our police force from political correctness, let hate speeches by the Al's hapen, Teachers are allowed to poison our children minds with communistic ideas and insanities, we will accept a dictator because we will not have a different Joyce. That is how Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, PolPot, Mao and all the others came in power.
> 
> If we look the other way and don't argue with so called liberals and their insane ideology we have not learned a thing from history and deserve a dictator.
> There are still elections to come, use your vote wisely.
> 
> It starts whit them. If a liberal government offers you 1 Dollar for free you have to understand, that they have to steal that from your neighbor first. If they promisse you to get stuff for free and you don't have to earn it. You have to understand that goods not falling from the sky, liberals have to enslave someone that works in camps for free, otherwise they cannot distribute anything for free. Or there will be no goods and food because no one will make it.
> 
> Butting Hitler, Stalin and Mao in the conservative corner is the biggest cup that liberals ever landed. They all where classic liberals and socialists.
> 
> I wrote it even if I know that not many want to know it. But may the one or the other start to think about something and that is what I wanted.


I read this twice, I take it to heart, thanks PT for the eloquent post.

GW


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## hillman

You are one confused dude, PT, apparently employing a very coarse sieve to arrive at a monolithic result. Whatever works for you - "It's a free country".


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## desertman

hillman:
Confused? His language may be a little coarse, but "PT" is absolutely correct in his knowledge of history. I'm glad that there are people like him.


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## pic

desertman said:


> hillman:
> Confused? His language may be a little coarse, but "PT" is absolutely correct in his knowledge of history. I'm glad that there are people like him.


Pt111pro who has lived or experienced, or just read about the past history performances is credible.

But to believe absolutely one flows into the other (as hillman talks of a monolithic result) could be very unrealistic in a sense of comparison to today's current events in general


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## Bisley

PT111Pro said:


> And btw it is historical the biggest c*o*up*e* that liberals ever did to make people believe that Hitler was a conservative. Hitler was the leader of the Socialistic Worker Party of Germany and therefore a classic liberal.


Very astute. :smt023
The fact that Hitler and Stalin became mortal enemies makes it seem as though they had irreconcilable ideological differences, but in reality, they both just wanted personal power...kingdoms, actually.

The main difference between Hitler and Stalin was that Hitler declared outright that he was a dictator with total power, whereas Stalin pretended (for a while) to be more of a head of a ruling council. Both men headed political parties with socialist in their names, and both created ruling classes over the common worker. Our own 'ruling' liberals aren't 'disappearing' people yet, and we still have elections, but the process has become so corrupt that it could evolve into an authoritarian type of socialism easily with another election that put a liberal president and both houses of Congress into power. We have been rapidly losing the checks and balances that were supposed to prevent this.

Removing 2nd Amendment rights would be one of the first signs, to be quickly followed by 1st Amendment rights, if that ever does happen.


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## desertman

pic:


> But to believe absolutely one flows into the other (as hillman talks of a monolithic result) could be very unrealistic in a sense of comparison to today's current events in general


I don't know if it's unrealistic or not. Maybe, maybe not? History does have a tendency to repeat itself. Could it happen here? Indeed it's possible. People didn't think it could happen then either. To ignore it is to do so at our own peril. The United States at one time was the world's leading industrial power providing good paying jobs for those with only a high school diploma. One income households were commonplace along with a home and a two car garage. Not so anymore and it doesn't seem to be getting any better as the middle class gets pushed further down the economic ladder. This can not continue. God only knows what will become of the future of this country?

I've travelled throughout this country many times by rail, through many of it's once industrialized cities. Only to see rows and rows of boarded up factories that once provided jobs and opportunities. And the crumbling neighborhoods that surround them. Each time I couldn't help but wonder what it was like to live there while those places were thriving? Each time I'd ask myself; What the hell happened? How could this happen to the greatest nation on the world?


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## PT111Pro

@ Shipwreck
Thx brother, but I was in a very lucky position. I saw what happen in eastern Germany. They in east Germany elected the socialist right after the WW II again. Always the same outcome. Free stuff and the promise to make a living without real work. 
A lady that I met after the wall broke down for example was sad, because she lost her job to a billet machine and feared now to have to work for a living. She was employed in the public swimming pool and sold tickets to the people. A ticket cost .50 Pfennige (50 cent) and she earned in a day 95 Ost-Mark. See how many tickets must she sell until she has enough money on the counter so her boss can bay only her salary for that day. That’s are socialistic jobs. How many tickets to people have they to sell a day until they can run a pool?

You see I give you all an example of socialistic mathematics like my college teacher had explained it to us. Should I say that he lost his job the very next day when the wall came down? Someone surprised?

In a socialistic world you have a family of 4. Daddy works for BMW and earns 2000 Dollar a month. Mama works for Kodak and earns also 2000 Dollar a month. So the family has a total family income of 4000 Dollar that 4 people can spend on food, and goods. Right? I mean so far conservative math and socialistic math are equal to each other. Right?

How does now a socialist increase the family income?
That’s easy to do. Family income increase the socialist way.

Peter the 9 year old son goes to school and now get paid for that by mom. He has now an income of 100 Dollars. Tammy goes to kindergarten and gets paid by daddy for that also a 100 Dollar. Socialistic math said.: Daddy has 2000 Dollar income, Mom has 2000 Dollar income. Peter has 100 Dollar income and Tammy has now 100 Dollar income too. The family has now 4200 Dollar income to spend for goods and food. Right? That is the reason why socialist and communists could bankrupt a country like the Soviet Union in only 35 Years of existence. And that is what will bankrupt the USA too and I doubt that they need 35 years to do that.

I was lucky, that I had grown up in Germany and could ask people that actually lived before 1928 and could tell me what really happen and how Hitler made it to power.


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## SailDesign

PT111Pro said:


> <snip>
> 
> They in east Germany elected the socialist right after the WW II again.
> 
> <snip>


PT, you may want to revise that "elected" thing. East Germany was the Soviet Occupation territory when Germany was split into 3 at the end of WWII. They never had a chance to "elect" anything - they were part of the Soviet Bloc, and that was that.

History of East Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## SailDesign

desertman said:


> <snip>
> 
> I've travelled throughout this country many times by rail, through many of it's once industrialized cities. Only to see rows and rows of boarded up factories that once provided jobs and opportunities. And the crumbling neighborhoods that surround them. Each time I couldn't help but wonder what it was like to live there while those places were thriving? Each time I'd ask myself; What the hell happened? How could this happen to the greatest nation on the world?


What happened was that the factory owners shipped jobs to China to make more money. I know it is PC to couch it in terms of "cost-savings" but the bottom line was "making more money"


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## bullet1234

If some of these black or white looters, rioters, burners, and etc.
could explain to me how this is going to influence 
anyone with money to build places that would/could
hire some of these folks, especially those who can not talk well enough
to be understood then I would maybe BE on board,,, not, not.
Why should you be willing to spend a great deal
of money to build work places like the CVS store in this
neighborHOOD; not going to happen. It will only get WORSE.
Anyone with any sense black or white will LEAVE western
Baltimore & Ferguson because the ROL is not up help in
either place.


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## SailDesign

bullet1234 said:


> If some of these black or white looters, rioters, burners, and etc.
> could explain to me how this is going to influence
> anyone with money to build places that would/could
> hire some of these folks, especially those who can not talk well enough
> to be understood then I would maybe BE on board,,, not, not.
> Why should you be willing to spend a great deal
> of money to build work places like the CVS store in this
> neighborHOOD; not going to happen. It will only get WORSE.
> Anyone with any sense black or white will LEAVE western
> Baltimore & Ferguson because the ROL is not up help in
> either place.


And yet the Boston Tea Party was a good thing? Seems to me it was a bunch of liberals rioting about government repression.... Kind of like recent events.

Yes, i know, "Liberals", AGAINST government. Weird, isn't it?


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## desertman

SailDesign:


> What happened was that the factory owners shipped jobs to China to make more money. I know it is PC to couch it in terms of "cost-savings" but the bottom line was "making more money


My theory is this: At one time particularly after the war the United States was pretty much the only manufacturer in the world. A lot of the world was in ruins. We manufactured just about everything from toasters to automobiles. You name it we made it. The unions figured since we were the only kid on the block, they could demand higher wages and better benefits. While all of this was going on many of those countries that were in ruins were starting to build up their own manufacturing base. Now the good old USA has competition. The unions have literally priced themselves out of a job. Companies had no other choice than to move their operations overseas or go out of business altogether. It's kind of like this; Are you better off earning $2.00 an hour and can fill your shopping cart for $20 or make $20 an hour and fill that same cart for $200? What would "SailDesign" do if "SailDesign" took all the risks of starting a business manufacturing sails and had to pay his employees $20 an hour and sell a sail for $200 while his competitor was paying $2 an hour and selling the same sail for $20? How long do you think "SailDesign" will remain in business?


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## SailDesign

desertman said:


> SailDesign:
> 
> My theory is this: At one time particularly after the war the United States was pretty much the only manufacturer in the world. A lot of the world was in ruins. We manufactured just about everything from toasters to automobiles. You name it we made it. The unions figured since we were the only kid on the block, we can demand higher wages and better benefits. While all of this was going on many of those countries that were in ruins were starting to build up their own manufacturing base. Sooner or later the good old USA had competition. The unions have literally priced themselves out of a job. Companies had no other choice than to move their operations overseas or go out of business altogether. It's kind of like this; Are you better off earning $2.00 an hour and can fill your shopping cart for $20 or make $20 an hour and fill that same cart for $200? What would "SailDesign" do if "SailDesign" took all the risks of starting a business manufacturing sails and had to pay his employees $20 an hour and sell a sail for $200 while his competitor was paying $2 an hour and selling the same sail for $20?


If you want the economy to work, then f a fair wage and fair prices are important. The unions had their place, and have brought you nice things like paid days off (don't tell me you don't enjoy those) and 2-day weekends abnd National Holidays. You can bitch about them all you want, but ultimately you owe a lot of your current comfort to them.

As far as empty factories go, you can certainly thank China and other dictatorships for having low wages. While we bitch about China's pollution, we enjoy a quality of life they can only dream of because we have higher wages (Again, thank the unions!) than they do.

Empty factories mean less jobs, but they also mean the ability to buy "more stuff" because said stuff is cheaper.

I wouldn't, BTW, start a business knowing that I couldn't produce as cheaply as the competition. I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid. Which is why I don't work for myself.

Edit: Or, to put this another way, what would your quality of life look like if you had to buy things made by people paid as well as you are?


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## Tip

So we should lower our quality of life so that all can be paid better? Is that the aim Sail?


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## SailDesign

Tip said:


> So we should lower our quality of life so that all can be paid better? Is that the aim Sail?


Well, if you want to live in a post-Utopian paradise of desertman's non-union making,. sure. Why not?

But if you like your quality of ife and current pay-scale vs COG - thank a union.


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## desertman

SailDesign:
The unions may have done all of those wonderful things. But the bottom line is that their members are now priced out of a job. I don't see things ever going back the way they used to be. The ship has already left the dock. Which reminds me, hell, I remember when we had our own merchant marine, not anymore, ships now sail under a foreign flag with a foreign crew they may have an American captain or officers but that's about it. Containerization also changed the shipping industry as there are not as many longshoremen needed to unload the ships.



> As far as empty factories go, you can certainly thank China and other dictatorships for having low wages.


That may be so but the average Chinese worker also has a better standard of living than what they used to at least now they have jobs. Do I like this? Of course not. But there really isn't a God damn thing that I can do about it. I do work for myself, I am now self employed. I lost my job of 20 years in manufacturing because the company I used to work for packed up and moved because of lower labor costs. I harbor no resentment toward the company they really didn't have any choice. The only union job that I had belonged to was the CSEA (Civil Servants Employees Union) when I worked for my local highway department. I should have stayed there, there's no competition and they certainly aren't going out of business. They'll just bankrupt the municipalities and the taxpayers that are forced to support them. Many municipalities have already done that: Pritchard, AL, San Bernardino, CA and many others throughout this great nation. Democrats are sure out to help the middle class alright that is as long as you belong to a public employees union or are a government worker. The private sector can go to hell.



> Edit: Or, to put this another way, what would your quality of life look like if you had to buy things made by people paid as well as you are?


My quality of life is determined by how hard I work. You have no idea how much I get paid or my standard of living. Or how difficult it is after you lose your job only to find that the job you once had is now obsolete. Fortunately we've never lived beyond our means, taught ourselves how to use computers and busted our ass soliciting our skills to prospective clients. How well we are paid is determined by how well we do our job. Or whether we keep that job. Not like belonging to a union where no matter how well you do your job you still make the same as the guy who just doesn't give a shit. As long as they show up and are not insubordinate they will always keep their job. As far as I'm concerned I do not owe the unions a God damn thing. It was the union that caused me to lose my job in the first place. Businesses are free to do whatever they have to do to stay in business as it should be.


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## SailDesign

desertman said:


> SailDesign:
> The unions may have done all of those wonderful things. But the bottom line is that their members are now priced out of a job. I don't see things ever going back the way they used to be. The ship has already left the dock. Which reminds me, hell, I remember when we had our own merchant marine, not anymore, ships now sail under a foreign flag with a foreign crew they may have an American captain or officers but that's about it. Containerization also changed the shipping industry as there are not as many longshoremen needed to unload the ships.
> 
> That may be so but the average Chinese worker also has a better standard of living than what they used to at least now they have jobs. Do I like this? Of course not. But there really isn't a God damn thing that I can do about it. I do work for myself, I am now self employed. I lost my job of 20 years in manufacturing because the company I used to work for packed up and moved because of lower labor costs. I harbor no resentment toward the company they really didn't have any choice. The only union job that I had belonged to was the CSEA (Civil Servants Employees Union) when I worked for my local highway department. I should have stayed there, there's no competition and they certainly aren't going out of business. They'll just bankrupt the municipalities and the taxpayers that are forced to support them. Many municipalities have already done that: Pritchard, AL, San Bernardino, CA and many others throughout this great nation. Democrats are sure out to help the middle class alright that is as long as you belong to a public employees union or are a government worker. The private sector can go to hell.
> 
> My quality of life is determined by how hard I work. You have no idea how much I get paid or my standard of living or how difficult it is after you lose your job only to find that the job you once had is now obsolete. Fortunately we've never lived beyond our means, taught ourselves how to use computers and busted our ass soliciting our skills to prospective clients. How well we are paid is determined by how well we do our job. Or whether we keep that job. Not like belonging to a union where no matter how well you do your job you still make the same as the guy who just doesn't give a shit. As long as they show up and are not insubordinate they will always keep their job. As far as I'm concerned I do not owe the unions a God damn thing. It was the union that caused me to lose my job in the first place. Businesses are free to do whatever they have to do to stay in business as it should be.


D'man - I didn't want to snip anything there, because it is all germane - BUT. While I agree that unions have had their day (and I have never joined one) they did a lot of good, and were not the reason jobs went overseas. The companies that took their jobs overseas did so at the expense of their workers. Blame the unions if you want to. i blame the owners of the businesses. It is still possible to run a profitable business making things in this country. And pay your workers a fair wage.


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## desertman

SailDesign:
Yes the unions have had their day, and yes a lot of businesses could and did exploit their labor force. Not so easy nowadays with the passage of labor laws which were basically non existent at the turn of the century. However it's competition that drove businesses overseas, I do not think that it's any more complicated than that. Competition also determines the cost of any given item or service. When there was no foreign competition the jobs stayed here in America. Unions by their very nature stifle competition, they hold companies hostage to their demands. During the three years that I belonged to the CSEA, there were literally people standing around doing nothing or at a minimum doing the very least possible. As I've mentioned as long as they showed up and were not insubordinate you were getting paid. While it took us a month to blacktop a highway a private company could do it in a week. At least from my own experience is that people who work for a private company tend to do a better job because of the competition. It's within their own self interest. If everyone screws around, the company goes out of business and everyone loses their job.


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## SailDesign

desertman said:


> SailDesign:
> Yes the unions have had their day, and yes a lot of businesses could and did exploit their labor force. Not so easy nowadays with the passage of labor laws which were basically non existent at the turn of the century. However it's competition that drove businesses overseas, I do not think that it's any more complicated than that. Competition also determines the cost of any given item or service. When there was no foreign competition the jobs stayed here in America. Unions by their very nature stifle competition, they hold companies hostage to their demands. During the three years that I belonged to the CSEA, there were literally people standing around doing nothing or at a minimum doing the very least possible. As I've mentioned as long as they showed up and were not insubordinate you were getting paid. While it took us a month to blacktop a highway a private company could do it in a week. At least from my own experience is that people who work for a private company tend to do a better job because of the competition. It's within their own self interest. If everyone screws around, the company goes out of business and everyone loses their job.


Having lived through the Labour years in the UK (you would have called them Commies here) I am not going to argue or even disagree about people standing around doing npothing... It was what killed English industry, too. BUT - if your work-force is willing to work, it is possible to have industry with a capital "I"

Those labor laws that were not common at the turn of the (last) century were achieved through unions when they *were* needed, though.

Don'rt know about your time zone, but mine says it's time to sleep - catch ya round.


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## pic

I watch to much television. I enjoy watching shows like (" how it's made")
("how do they do it")

What really amazes me are the jobs that use to be performed by the working man or woman has turned to AUTOMATION, ROBOTS PAINTING AUTOMOBILES, etc.


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## pic

Bill Gates: Bots Are Taking Away Jobs - Business Insider

Will Automation Take Our Jobs? - Scientific American


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## hillman

AUTOMATION used to be the scare word used to encourage young members and pre-members of the 'workforce' to further their technical education. The future was going to require _skilled_ labor. Turns out that future requires Mexican or Chinese labor; who'd of thought?


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## Bisley

Anybody who believes the pro-union propaganda need only to look at Detroit and the rust-belt cities to understand what happens to businesses and communities that buy into it. Unions help a few people, for awhile, but leave bankruptcy and unemployment in their wake. There are very few 'robber-barons' left in this country, and that is about the extent of what the union has done to benefit the country. They still pretend that all businesses operate that way - all businesses, not just the Rockefellers and Vanderbuilts. Nowadays, union upper managements are the true robber-barons.


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## GETCHERGUN

SailDesign said:


> And yet the Boston Tea Party was a good thing? Seems to me it was a bunch of liberals rioting about government repression.... Kind of like recent events.
> 
> Yes, i know, "Liberals", AGAINST government. Weird, isn't it?


Throwing someones property into a harbor to be destroyed is vandalism but is not looting or rioting.

What went on in Ferguson and what is going on in Baltimore puts thousands of people who had nothing to do with Grays death in immediate risk of great bodily harm or death.

The Boston tea party didn't destroy a community and put lives at immediate risk.


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## PT111Pro

@SailDesign

I actually thought I was finished writing about that topic in this forum, but in regart of the thousands and thousands of people that was shot to death, ended up in psychiatric clinics and was killed with chemicals and electro shock or ended up as guinea pig in the socialistic industry and chemical industry behind a wall. Therefore I had to respond to your post.
I cannot keep my mouth shot because that would mean I ignore Millions of Vietnamese and North Koreans that was kept as slaves in East Germany (what is more than only east Berlin) to provide socialistic conform people with goods and food for free.

I know that you know all that and I understand it is very hard for a person that was his life long a comunist or do you prefer, Leninist, or Stalinist, humanist, or better liberal or progressive, to admit that the life-view the altitude and political understanding was wrong. You will never admit that. I understand, you are not even able too for many reasons.
But one thing is for sure. Socialism does not work. If socialism would work than we wouldn't need Jesus. Christians like me claim that Jesus was the only one on earth that was a true socialist. But no human can ever become Jesus, otherwise s/he would be God himself. Even atheist understand that concept.



> SailDesign
> PT, you may want to revise that "elected" thing. East Germany was the Soviet Occupation territory when Germany was split into 3 at the end of WWII. They never had a chance to "elect" anything - they were part of the Soviet Bloc, and that was that.


No - why should I. I don't want to take away your Wikipedia PHD. But you should know that Wikipedia is a online outlet for political correct answers.
In Europe is telling the political facts a crime and only to say that Hitler was a socialist and not a conservative can bring you in deep trouble today. But no only Germany that is all over Europe. In G-Britain people go to jail for racism only because the little 3 year old child don't like spicy Turkish food. The Parents get accused to raise their child as a racist.

To the facts. Germany after the war and the first elections. There was a United Christian Party of Germany (CDU) there was the Socialistic Party of Germany (SPD) and there was the Liberal freedom Party of Germany the (FDP).
The CDU made the election and Adenauer became the first Bundeskanzler of Germany. Well as you know but not everyone know is the Bundesrepublik a Country that is but together after the first World War from many countries. Bavaria with the Capital of Munich, Wurtemberg with the Capital of Stuttgart, Prussia with the Capital of Berlin and so on and on.

Well socialist never take a no as an answer and they don't go voluntary. The SPD lost in the entire Germany against the CDU but in the russian Zone alone they won with about 4%. Walter Ulbricht the head of the SPD run to the soviet authorities and ask for socialistic brother aid because he won at least the Russian Zone and want therefore to split up fromn the other Germany. And he became aid like the Czechoslovakian socialist became when they ask for soviet socialistic brother aid in Prag spring 5 January 1968. Socialist not going from their chairs they kill Millions and Millions regardless. Liberals never leave once you let them in power.

They had to wall themselves in because the people once they experienced socialism, liberalism however you gonna call it, voted with their feed and left the Zone the so called "First real implemented Socialistic State of Germany". They left the entire socialistic countries in east Europe into Asia because no one on earth will live in liberalism once they finally have it.

Well - Sail I will not and can not take anyone opinion away and I cannot change anyone opinion in a forum.

350 Million people was officially killed the last 100 Years because of liberalism and that only because they had or only was accused by denunciators to disagree with the socialistic economy or other politically correct views that was given to the people by the socialistic opinion outlets (Media). Do you realize that this are 350 000 every year that loose their life for no other reason than being accused not to be a liberal? Not to be a liberal is now since 2005 in the entire Europe a Crime! Yes in England too.

I know there are much more tools that liberals use to implement socialistic tyranny. It affects all aspects of live. That is socialism actually that even go pee becomes a political act. In IOtaly the Hotels must remodle the toilets so no toilet facing Mekka. That is liberalism. 
But to mention all tols and all aspects is in a forum set up impossible.

In remembering of the killed and imprisoned people in socialistic states and nations and the enslaved Asians kept in worker camps in Eastern Europe after 1945.


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## SailDesign

GETCHERGUN said:


> Throwing someones property into a harbor to be destroyed is vandalism but is not looting or rioting.


If it is removed from its location, then it's looting. Vandalism would have been tagging the crates.



GETCHERGUN said:


> What went on in Ferguson and what is going on in Baltimore puts thousands of people who had nothing to do with Grays death in immediate risk of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> The Boston tea party didn't destroy a community and put lives at immediate risk.


No arguments there - although a lot of people fought and died in the little war that the Tea Party sparked.


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## SailDesign

PT111Pro said:


> <snip-de-dip>
> 
> But you should know that Wikipedia is a online outlet for political correct answers.
> 
> <snip lots more>


Really? Wow.. . Never knew that. How about linking here to a site that has "correct" answers. Or is every site on the InterWebz "controlled" by liberals?


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## PT111Pro

Sail I rest my case. I don't argue any further. Wicipedia is a medium that only contains politically correct answer. That is a well known fact. If you want to know something for real, why not just go to a good old library and read a book about that topic. That helps clearify any further question.

And yes Sail. I understand. This time, this time it will be all different than in 4000 years of liberalism that was invented by Nimroth in Persia.. I understand that.


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## PT111Pro

Ohh as a help for a library,
The Jews call this time between 1933 and 1945 in Europe Ha-Shoa or Yad Yashem. Only as a help in a library case that you may want to look for. I'll think that a Jewish historian is free from left right or liberal, conservative accusations.


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## SailDesign

PT111Pro said:


> Sail I rest my case. I don't argue any further.


Oh, thank God.



PT111Pro said:


> Wicipedia is a medium that only contains politically correct answer. That is a well known fact. If you want to know something for real, why not just go to a good old library and read a book about that topic. That helps clearify any further question.
> 
> <snip>


So you're trying to tell me that there is NO source of "PT-approved" info on history available on the web? I rest MY case.

"Plonk!"


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## TurboHonda

Wikipedia PHD. Ha! I love it. :anim_lol:


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## Goldwing

SailDesign said:


> Oh, thank God.
> 
> So you're trying to tell me that there is NO source of "PT-approved" info on history available on the web? I rest MY case.
> 
> "Plonk!"


I'm not fond of handing out knicknames but WIKIPHD is going to stick somewhere! Maybe it should go to the next member who quotes Wikipedia.:twisted:

GW


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## SailDesign

goldwing said:


> I'm not fond of handing out knicknames but WIKIPHD is going to stick somewhere! Maybe it should go to the next member who quotes Wikipedia.:twisted:
> 
> GW


"The next one" sounds good. :smt083


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## Steve M1911A1

SailDesign said:


> ...a lot of people fought and died in the little war that the Tea Party sparked.


The "Boston Tea Party happened in 1773, about three years before what we mark as the start of the American Revolution.
But protests against what the colonies saw as unfair taxation had been going on for quite a long time before that. Think of the Stamp Act of 1765, for instance.
The first serious riot against the rule of Great Britain was the so-called "Boston Massacre," of 1770. The funny thing about that is that it was the police (well, really the British Army, standing in as police) who did the actual rioting, in response to pressure from an angry mob of Bostonians. Driven by fear, the outnumbered and poorly-controlled British soldiers fired upon the unarmed mob and killed one person. (Some "massacre"!)

To me, the funniest thing about the protests which led to the American Revolution is that, at that time, Great Britain was absolutely right to so tax the American colonists.
The taxes in question were being applied only to the American colonies by the British government, because those taxes were meant to pay for Great Britain's expenses in having defended the colonies against the French and their Indian allies during the previous war (1754 through 1763).
The colonists' complaint, remember, was that they were being taxed by a Parliament which would not seat members from the American colonies. Thus, the colonials had no say in the matter of the taxes which were being applied to them. And "Taxation Without Representation" then became the sticking point which resulted in war.
The taxes were not unfair, and there would have been little that any colonial representatives in Parliament could have done about them (since they would have been vastly outvoted anyway), but the British government stubbornly refused any colonial input in the matter. The colonials saw that foolish refusal as an insuperable insult, and, finally, that led to revolution.


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## pic

J


Bisley said:


> Anybody who believes the pro-union propaganda need only to look at Detroit and the rust-belt cities to understand what happens to businesses and communities that buy into it. Unions help a few people, for awhile, but leave bankruptcy and unemployment in their wake. There are very few 'robber-barons' left in this country, and that is about the extent of what the union has done to benefit the country. They still pretend that all businesses operate that way - all businesses, not just the Rockefellers and Vanderbuilts. Nowadays, union upper managements are the true robber-barons.


Unions are only as powerful as "supply n demand". Detroit was not taken down by unions.

They had other issues that involved foreign competition , quality control . Before you blame the quality control on union members, the auto engineers who were responsible for design and quality control in Detroit were non union management employees.


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## PT111Pro

TurboHonda said:


> Wikipedia PHD. Ha! I love it. :anim_lol:


Yes Wicki PhD because the most of the people pretend whatever Wikipedia writes, it must be true. People don't understand who is writing in Wikipedia. Sometimes there are 12 year old Wicky authors.

If some has absolutely no Idea what s/he is talking about than they go to Wickipedia and become specialist on a topic and know all about it. That is why I call them Wicky PhD.


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## hillman

A lot of Wikipedia articles are notated - requesting corroboration. You just need to pay attention, PT. This being a gun forum, you should know about 'going off half-cocked.'


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## GETCHERGUN

SailDesign said:


> If it is removed from its location, then it's looting. Vandalism would have been tagging the crates.
> 
> No arguments there - although a lot of people fought and died in the little war that the Tea Party sparked.


True but the death of a career criminal as an excuse to destroy parts of their own city has no similarity to the birth of a nation through war and revolution.

The looting and rioting has nothing to do with the freedom of a nation.


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## SailDesign

GETCHERGUN said:


> True but the death of a career criminal as an excuse to destroy parts of their own city has no similarity to the birth of a nation through war and revolution.
> 
> The looting and rioting has nothing to do with the freedom of a nation.


You only say that because you won the war....... Had we lost, the original Tea Partkers would have been looters and rebels.

The death of a career criminal would have been fine if he had been sentenced to it legally. Fortunately, the death penalty does not get used for non-capital crimes, so his death was at best unintentional manslaughter, at worst first-degree murder..


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## Goldwing

SailDesign said:


> You only say that because you won the war....... Had we lost, the original Tea Partkers would have been looters and rebels.
> 
> The death of a career criminal would have been fine if he had been sentenced to it legally. Fortunately, the death penalty does not get used for non-capital crimes, so his death was at best unintentional manslaughter, at worst first-degree murder..


It hasn't gone to the grand jury quite yet, Sail. Might be more to it than you think.

GW


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## GETCHERGUN

SailDesign said:


> You only say that because you won the war....... Had we lost, the original Tea Partkers would have been looters and rebels.
> 
> The death of a career criminal would have been fine if he had been sentenced to it legally. Fortunately, the death penalty does not get used for non-capital crimes, so his death was at best unintentional manslaughter, at worst first-degree murder..


I didn't win anything.............my ancestors didn't come to the U.S. until after the turn of the 18th century and the Tea Party participants would have been labeled as looters by the winners revisionist history not by honest claim.

Your opinion on the range of possibilities surrounding Grays death at this point is based on conjecture and not fact.

People die in all manner of ways every day, I would venture to say that a life lived in conflict of dealing drugs and theft probably would also decrease an individuals life span.

Sometimes it just boils down to taking chances and paying prices .


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## PT111Pro

> hillman
> You just need to pay attention, PT. This being a gun forum, you should know about 'going off half-cocked.'


Uuuupppssss..... 
You want to shut me up? Is this under this by Sail opened topic a gun topic? Did anyone ask here in this topic for a gun related opinion or help? If so would you let me know?
I understand, not everyone can stand the truth.
But don't worry I am finished and don't write about that topic as long no one said that in socialism the socialist were not elected into power, or that socialism don't kill by accusations and would not enslave people in camps, to manufacture free goods that they need to distribute.


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## desertman

PT111Pro:


> You want to shut me up?


Hell no! You keep right on posting "PT".


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## hillman

PT111Pro said:


> Uuuupppssss.....
> You want to shut me up? Is this under this by Sail opened topic a gun topic? Did anyone ask here in this topic for a gun related opinion or help? If so would you let me know?
> I understand, not everyone can stand the truth.
> But don't worry I am finished and don't write about that topic as long no one said that in socialism the socialist were not elected into power, or that socialism don't kill by accusations and would not enslave people in camps, to manufacture free goods that they need to distribute.


Nah, I don't want to 'shut you up'. You want to go off half-cocked, go right on doing it, far as I'm concerned. I even promise to give up trying to help you. Wing it, PT.


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