# Are You Too Stupid.....to carry a firearm?



## Amsdorf (Jan 19, 2012)

I wrote this essay the other day and thought I'd pass it along here for discussion. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Let’s face it, aside from owning the right gun and gear, not everyone is equipped to carry a concealed weapon. With the boom in firearm ownership in recent years, there are a lot of new gun owners. And plenty of first-timers seem to have picked up that first gun as an impulse buy, apparently thinking, “Hey, I’m going to buy me a gun and carry it!” Their friends pack heat so how hard can it really be, right? If you’re too stupid to think through some really important questions before you start carrying, you have no business walking around with a concealed weapon. You need to stop to consider that . . .

There are legal, ethical, moral and competency implications whenever you strap on a firearm. Here are just some of the things you need to be aware of:

Legal Implications

If you carry a gun, you need to be prepared to accept the legal consequences, whatever they may be. Are you willing to go through the trouble and expense – both financially and emotionally – of being arrested, charged and tried if you have to use your firearm? If not, leave the heater at home. Can you deal with whatever might come your way when it comes to encounters with law enforcement officials who may or may not understand and respect your state and local carry laws? If not, don’t carry.

Ethical Implications

When you take on the responsibility of being an armed citizen, you also assume a greater level of ethical responsibility for every aspect of your behavior while packing. You don’t pick fights. You don’t respond to aggressive comments or gestures by going for your gat. You never go looking for trouble. You don’t – ever – drink while armed. And you never brandish it or joke around about carrying concealed. Concealed means concealed…in every possible sense. If you can’t conceal it, do not tote it. You aren’t trying to impress anyone by carrying. Your ethical posture hasto be above reproach when carrying.

Moral Implications

Are you mentally prepared to actually shoot and kill somebody? If not, the gun should stay in your safe. If you think you are just going to pull the gun out and wave it around to scare somebody off, don’t carry. If you think you can “shoot to wound,” you have another thing coming.

If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period. There is no middle ground. Can you do that? Have you thought long and hard about what that means? Are you willing to see what a bullet will do to a human body? People don’t always just fall over dead like in the movies. You have to prepare yourself for the emotional trauma of gravely wounding or killing another human being.

Competency Implications

If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, you need to be rigorous about safe, competent gun handling. Your heater is always loaded – or it better be. That means you must never ever, under any circumstance, draw it while carrying unless you’re truly in a life or death situation.

You do not pull it out to show to your buddies. You never cover anyone with the muzzle. Your finger should be indexed. You simply do not “play around” with your concealed firearm. It goes in the holster and never comes out, unless absolutely necessary.

And you need to be fully trained in the use of your firearm. Find a competent instructor and take a class. Better yet, take several classes. Just as if you want to get to Carnegie hall, you need to practice, practice and practice some more. You owe it to yourself to get in as much range time with your carry gun as you possibly can. If you aren’t willing to master all aspects of handling your concealed carry firearm, don’t strap it on.

Are you too stupid to handle all of this? Most likely not. But these are just some of the things you will need to consider before you take on the responsibility of concealed carry. Yes, it’s your right, but you need to exercise that right legally, ethically, morally and competently or you’ll hurt the cause of those that do. Got it?


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## FNISHR (Aug 9, 2011)

You have said this well. For the most part, though, you're preaching to the choir. That doesn't mean the post is not important, though. I think that serious gun enthusiasts who are alert for the right opportunity can gently educate others without bragging or brandishing, and raise awareness of these complex issues one or two listeners at a time.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

This is a good piece and new shooters need to understand this.I try and pass on things that help the newbies as I want them aware of all that goes with the purchase and permit.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Amsdorf said:


> Moral Implications
> 
> Are you mentally prepared to actually shoot and kill somebody? If not, the gun should stay in your safe. If you think you are just going to pull the gun out and wave it around to scare somebody off, don't carry. If you think you can "shoot to wound," you have another thing coming.
> 
> If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period. There is no middle ground. Can you do that? Have you thought long and hard about what that means? Are you willing to see what a bullet will do to a human body? People don't always just fall over dead like in the movies. You have to prepare yourself for the emotional trauma of gravely wounding or killing another human being.


I agree, except some of your moral implications to an extent, it depends on the situation, just because you pull your firearm from your holster doesn't necessarily mean you have to shoot and kill your attacker, but it should mean you are willing to do so to save your life:

Why Gun Rights? - @exceptforanamelessca: Regarding Gun Defense Statistics


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## SouthSideScubaSteve (Jun 20, 2012)

Well written and thought provoking... thanks for Posting!


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

I read your article the other day on The Truth About Guns, actually, good read and nice work.

KG


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

In general, there are good points in your essay. But there are also a few flaws in my opinion.

Firstly, I would change the title from "Are You Too Stupid.....to carry a firearm?" to something like, "Are You Too Stupid.....to carry a concealed firearm?" as your essay has a strong emphasis on concealed carry and makes no mention of open carry. In fact, it has a sentence that says, "If you can’t conceal it, do not tote it." which discounts completely those who choose to open carry. This is not to say that open carriers operate under a different set of guidelines. However because their arm is visible, they are faced with a few extra sets of "rules".

There is also the assumption that if you have to use your gun, you are going to be arrested and tried in a court of law. This is not always the case and in fact, happens less frequently than many believe. However, your point is well taken than one should be prepared for such an event and I firmly believe that to be the case. As for a lawsuit after the fact, in my state, that is rather rare. Still one should also be prepared for this as well.

You also emphasis that folks should obtain training in matters legal as well as physical and again, I applaud you on this one. Knowing what one's state laws are regarding the use of deadly force is a prerequisite for going armed in my opinion. Not a requirement, since being armed is a right, but one would be courting disaster if they entered the public domain while armed and knew little about what they legally can and cannot do should the need arise.

As for shooting someone, I think you covered this pretty well. This is serious business. The one thing that gets good and decent people injured or killed in an extreme encounter is the fact that they are good and decent. They don't think like bad people. They don't really want to hurt someone so when something comes down fast and sudden, they are already behind the curve. An "I can't believe this is actually happening" mentality hits them which causes hesitation, and hesitating can get you killed. You had better do your best to have the mindset beforehand that IF you have to pull that gun on someone, you are already willing to shoot them. Regardless of all of the website bravado and BS you hear, you are not really going to know how you will react at that moment until it is happening like RIGHT NOW... unless you have been in a similar situation before.

Overall, a good piece. I would edit it a little, for spelling and syntax (what is a "gat"), and also for a little content as I mentioned.... in my opinion, of course. But you did a decent job of trying to drive home the point that this is not TV or the movies, but real life. We go out and about, open or concealed, and after a while, when the novelty wears off, it becomes second nature to strap on that gun. Few folks question or challenge us and so we can become lax in our situational behavior and lose a bit of the protective paranoia we need when going armed. This is something to be avoided at all costs. One should never lose sight of the fact that there is a deadly tool at our side and because it is there, we have an absolute responsibility to ourselves and those around us to act accordingly. We cannot afford to let down our guard, act the fool, or be belligerent when armed. We MUST conduct ourselves on a higher plain because with rights comes responsibility and with this right comes finality.


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## Amsdorf (Jan 19, 2012)

Based on all the great feedback, I've rewritten the article. I particularly appreciate the fact that a member of this forum contacted me privately and shared a number of very helpful and constructive criticisms.

Here then is "Version Two"

I've really learned a lot from all the comments that have been offered in response to the concealed carry article I wrote. I've tried to incorporate as much of the constructive criticism as I can and here is version two.

Let me know what you think.

*Concealed Carry Considerations*

With the boom in firearm ownership in recent years, there are a lot of new gun owners, taking advantage of their rights as citizens of the United States of America to "keep and bear arms." But carrying a concealed firearm is an awesome responsibility. Let's take a few minutes to consider some things you need to think through very carefully before you decide to carry a concealed weapon. There are legal, ethical, moral and competency implications.

Here are just some of the things you need to be aware of:

*Legal Implications*

If you carry a gun, you need to be aware of, and prepared to accept the legal consequences, whatever they may be. Are you willing to go through the trouble and expense - both financially and emotionally - of being arrested, charged and tried if you have to use your firearm? If not, leave your firearm at home. Are you ready to deal with whatever might come your way when it comes to encounters with law enforcement officials who may or may not understand and respect your state and local carry laws? Keep in mind that when you carry a firearm you are doing so for defensive purposes. The very concept of defense is to do what is necessary to stop a threat to ones own life or the life of another.

*Ethical Implications*

When you take on the responsibility of being an armed citizen, you also assume a greater level of ethical responsibility for every aspect of your behavior while packing. You don't pick fights. You don't respond to aggressive comments or gestures by going for your gun. You never go looking for trouble. You don't - ever - drink while armed. And you never brandish it or joke around about carrying concealed. Concealed means concealed&#8230;in every possible sense. If you can't conceal it, do not carry it. You aren't trying to impress anyone by carrying. Your ethical posture has to be above reproach when carrying. And, don't get dragged into a conversation about "shooting to kill." You do not shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the thread and to defend yourself or others in a true emergency.

*Moral Implications*

Are you mentally prepared to defend yourself? If not, the gun should stay in your safe. If you think you are just going to pull the gun out and wave it around to scare somebody off, don't carry. If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to stop a threat. You are using your gun defensively, that is, you are shooting to stop the threat of immanent bodily harm to you, to your loved ones, or an innocent party who is being attacked in danger of being killed. Are you prepared to do whatever it takes to stop a threat and to defend yourself? Have you thought long and hard about what that means? Are you willing to see what a bullet will do to a human body? People don't always just fall over dead like in the movies. You have to prepare yourself for the emotional trauma of gravely wounding or killing another human being, but remember, your goal is never to kill anyone, it is to stop a threat. Drawing your weapon is the last resort in a truly life, or death, situation, where you must act to defend yourself, or others.

*Competency Implications*

If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, you need to be rigorous about safe, competent gun handling. Your gun is always loaded - or it better be. That means you must never ever, under any circumstance, draw it while carrying unless you're truly in a life or death situation.

You do not pull it out to show to your buddies. You never point the weapon at anyone, which is referred to as "covering" somebody. Your finger should not be on the trigger, but "indexed" or simply lying against the firearm, ready to move to the trigger, but not on the trigger or in the trigger guard. You simply do not "play around" with your concealed firearm. It goes in the holster and never comes out, unless absolutely necessary.

And you need to be fully trained in the use of your firearm. Find a competent instructor and take a class. Better yet, take several classes. Just as if you want to get to Carnegie hall, you need to practice, practice and practice some more. You owe it to yourself to get in as much range time with your carry gun as you possibly can. If you aren't willing to master all aspects of handling your concealed carry firearm, don't strap it on.

These are just some of the things you will need to consider before you take on the responsibility of concealed carry. Yes, it's your right, but you need to exercise that right legally, ethically, morally and competently or you'll hurt the cause of those that do.

And finally, here is a good "creed" for a person carrying concealed to live by:

_If I draw my gun from it's holster, I have decided that lethal force is imminently necessary to prevent or end the use of force, which I reasonably believe will cause grave bodily harm or death against me. The ultimate fate of my adversary is not my goal, is not even my consideration. I must cause them to cease the actions that I believe are deadly to me. Nothing more. I do not shoot to kill. I shoot to make them stop._

Take care, and stay safe!


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Since conceal carry passed in my state, I have noticed many "Are you too stupid's"............the current laws are being looked at, as far as required training to obtain your license...there are many people who think that you should just be able to go to a half hour class, and get your license, and alot of people(qualified trainers) flocked to the state to take advantage of the current law, to take monetary advantage. I am of the belief that at the least, you should have to prove that you can listen, learn, qualify shoot, and take down your firearm. I have taken alot of flak for this belief, but I think that it benefits all of us in the long run. I took an 8 hour class, and had to qualify shoot, which was above and beyond the current requirements.....didn't bother me one bit...and if your serious about carry, it shoudn't bother others either.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

berettabone said:


> Since conceal carry passed in my state, I have noticed many "Are you too stupid's"............the current laws are being looked at, as far as required training to obtain your license...there are many people who think that you should just be able to go to a half hour class, and get your license, and alot of people(qualified trainers) flocked to the state to take advantage of the current law, to take monetary advantage. I am of the belief that at the least, you should have to prove that you can listen, learn, qualify shoot, and take down your firearm. I have taken alot of flak for this belief, but I think that it benefits all of us in the long run. I took an 8 hour class, and had to qualify shoot, which was above and beyond the current requirements.....didn't bother me one bit...and if your serious about carry, it shoudn't bother others either.


I'm sure most all of us believe that we should do these things for our own good as well as those around us. However by the same token, we should never support bills or laws mandating strict requirements to exercise a fundamental right. In my state, concealed carry is a privilege which requires one to obtain permission from their employees (i.e., servants) in order to carry a firearm on or about one's person concealed. There are exceptions to this such as one's property, permission from another property owner, or in one's car where the gun may be concealed in a secured location without a permit. However open carry is the normal (read that as standard or default) mode of carry which requires no permission from our employees to be practiced. No tests, classes, or training is required to carry openly and I would hate to see that come to pass. Once rights are restricted, there is no end to where it ends and of course, this has been going on for generations.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

In my state, OC has been legal for ever....but the current LE is making it clear that if you do OC, you will bring on the hassles that go with it....they are definitely sending a message, that if you OC, you will most likely be stopped for no good reason...there are current lawsuits filed for this type of behavior, however, I get the feeling that it will not stop...definitely a slippery slope....I understand your concerns over open carry, so where do we draw the line? All I can do, is hope that as time passes, things relax a bit, and OC becomes more of the norm. I agree, that you shouldn't have to pay for a license to do something that is already legal, but at the same token, they are worried about the "cowboy's"...and I guess you can't blame them. We will see what happens in the future...they are going over the training requirements right now, again, and I am getting ready for the backlash.....so glad I've got mine.


SouthernBoy said:


> I'm sure most all of us believe that we should do these things for our own good as well as those around us. However by the same token, we should never support bills or laws mandating strict requirements to exercise a fundamental right. In my state, concealed carry is a privilege which requires one to obtain permission from their employees (i.e., servants) in order to carry a firearm on or about one's person concealed. There are exceptions to this such as one's property, permission from another property owner, or in one's car where the gun may be concealed in a secured location without a permit. However open carry is the normal (read that as standard or default) mode of carry which requires no permission from our employees to be practiced. No tests, classes, or training is required to carry openly and I would hate to see that come to pass. Once rights are restricted, there is no end to where it ends and of course, this has been going on for generations.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

berettabone said:


> In my state, OC has been legal for ever....but the current LE is making it clear that if you do OC, you will bring on the hassles that go with it....they are definitely sending a message, that if you OC, you will most likely be stopped for no good reason...there are current lawsuits filed for this type of behavior, however, I get the feeling that it will not stop...definitely a slippery slope....I understand your concerns over open carry, so where do we draw the line? All I can do, is hope that as time passes, things relax a bit, and OC becomes more of the norm. I agree, that you shouldn't have to pay for a license to do something that is already legal, but at the same token, they are worried about the "cowboy's"...and I guess you can't blame them. We will see what happens in the future...they are going over the training requirements right now, again, and I am getting ready for the backlash.....so glad I've got mine.


It's a shame that you find this taking place in your state. I really hate to hear of states and locales where the police or elected officials think they can ride herd on those who employ them and own the government. We rarely see any problems with law enforcement down here when they encounter a citizen carrying a firearm out in the open. Yes it has happened but when it does, we rally around the victim and make things difficult for the local servants by attending town council meetings (armed) and contacting their superiors. In all the time I have been carrying (over 17 years on a regular basis with the last five years mostly open), I have never had a negative encounter with an LEO. Quite the contrary. And this is how I expect it to go since they work for us.

It has also been my experience that folks who go armed on a regular basis, be it open or concealed, are serious individuals and take serious what they are doing. They train and they practice proper firearms handling. I'm sure there are a few cowboys out there but I would wager you'd be hard pressed to find any in my neck of the woods.

For the record, I do conceal when I deem it to be in my better interests at a given time and place and under a given set of circumstances. But most often it's out in the open. I don't do this for show or to send a message. I do it because I have osteoarthritis in both of my knees so I can no longer fight or run as I was once capable of doing. I see my visible little friend as a warning to those who may wish to do me harm that perhaps they may want to pick another victim.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

I feel the same as berrattatoter on requirement portion.When I took the state required class I felt it was not enough.I had done my homework,class and range and was dissapointed at the material presented and the qualifying.The right to carry is a great responsibility and should be treated as such.I left more afraid of the future permit holders than criminals.I feel you should leave a class with alot more knowledge.Wasnt even given a handout on the states law.And this class was done by a police agency.


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## Amsdorf (Jan 19, 2012)

Wow, lousy class.

My class here in Missouri was quite good.

The emphasis on safe gun handling, was particularly superb. We went through the whole NRA Basic Pistol book, word for word, and some quality range time too.

But, I left feeling like you...needing to learn a lot more, which is good!


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

skullfr said:


> I feel the same as berrattatoter on requirement portion.When I took the state required class I felt it was not enough.I had done my homework,class and range and was dissapointed at the material presented and the qualifying.The right to carry is a great responsibility and should be treated as such.I left more afraid of the future permit holders than criminals.I feel you should leave a class with alot more knowledge.Wasnt even given a handout on the states law.And this class was done by a police agency.


I understand your concerns but do be careful about wishing for controls on your rights. That is a slippery slope from which there is no return. Our rights have already been diminished by laws, court decisions, and governmental fiat. The Founders wouldn't recognize what has become of their grand design.

Carrying a concealed firearm has been made into a privilege and as such, it is no longer a right... with the exception of four states. When government sticks its nose into the fray and wants to issue permits, you can bet it will also implement restrictions and controls along with regulations, tests, and licensing. A right's worse enemy is government. It's been this way for thousands of years and will remain this way long after we have all turned to dust.

As for training, I have had a fair amount of it and continue to train myself. I did this not because I had to but because I chose to do so. Granted, I did take a 2-day NRA course for my CHP in 1995, but I didn't need to since a prior class from my college days on firearms safety would have sufficed. And I have taken three courses on Virginia law and the use of deadly force and one on advanced carry topics. Add to these training videos from reputable authorities. It is my opinion that you should never stop learning since this is such a dynamic field. There will always be folks who are better informed, better shots, and better trained than you. This is to be expected and should give one the motivation they need to improve their knowledge and skill.

Remain humble in the knowledge that though you are not perfect, you are willing to strive.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

Yes it is a slippery slope.And like you I continue to train and learn all I can.We must admit there are way too many that think buying a gun and taking some lil course will be enough.We all hear the horror stories.I am afraid these are the type will jepordize our rights.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Good points, but we must recognize CCW has been around for decades, at least in most states. Florida for example was one of the pioneering states for CCW. If you look at the statistics of revocations and suspensions of licenses's compared to the number issued, revocations and suspensions are minuscule across the board. You may wish to research those statistics on those people who are too stupid to carry and if their licenses have been suspended or revoked and if there is an issue to warrant more training and mindset skills. I'm much more concerned about the criminals than the people too stupid too carry at least they are smart enough not to be convicted felons. •Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers.
•Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than one in a thousand instances is the attacker killed.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

denner said:


> Good points, but we must recognize CCW has been around for decades, at least in most states. Florida for example was one of the pioneering states for CCW. If you look at the statistics of revocations and suspensions of licenses's compared to the number issued, revocations and suspensions are minuscule across the board. You may wish to research those statistics on those people who are too stupid to carry and if their licenses have been suspended or revoked and if there is an issue to warrant more training and mindset skills. I'm much more concerned about the criminals than the people too stupid too carry at least they are smart enough not to be convicted felons. •Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely *brandish their gun or fire a warning shot *to scare off their attackers.
> •Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than one in a thousand instances is the attacker killed.


You probably know that both of these actions are illegal and can get you in hot water in most places in this country. There are some folks who think that they just want a gun to scare a BG. My late father-in-law once said this and kept a little starter pistol handy. I could not convince him otherwise that this was a bad idea. And some believe they will "shoot to wound" a BG if confronted. Again, very bad idea.

What might pass for brandishing in some minds is this. A victim approaches his car late at night in a far corner of a shopping center parking lot. Two BG's exit their close-by junker and quickly approach the victim. As they get near one says, "Your keys and wallet m-----f-----" as he plays with a section of galvanized pipe. The victim manages to pull his gun and the BG's seeing this suddenly have a change of mind and high tail it out of there. Is this brandishing in the legal sense? No it's not because the victim had the good faith apprehension that he was about to suffer serious bodily harm or worse. Still he should contact 911 as soon as he can to report the incident so that the BG"s don't call in and report some crazy guy with a gun, brandishing it and threatening them.

Then we have the guy who seeing a gaggle of teenagers hanging around his car on the street, comes out of his house, gun in hand, waving and pointing it here and there while cussing at the "yutes", saying he is going to do this or that if they don't "get the f--- away from my car and my house". Is this brandishing? You bet it is.

As for warning shots, if you are out in a rural area where this poses little or no danger to others, you may get away with it. But generally the law is going to look at this as reckless endangerment and the fact that you really didn't fully fear for your safety and well being. Don't do this.

It is quite interesting to hear some people say off the wall and wild things regarding the use of deadly force, guns, laws, loads, and a plethora of other related topics. I have heard some real duzzies in my life. The thing is, a sidearm is not a magic talisman, just waiting for its master to unleash it upon evil people. One of the topics we constantly hear on gun-related websites is "shot placement" and that it is key to stopping a threat. So we go to ranges, take weekend self defense classes with "experts", expending 1000-1500 rounds at steel disks, B27 targets while kneeling, weak hand, from cover/concealment, and while moving between fake buildings and door frames. But what is missing in all of this is the fact that the target is not human and is not shooting back. We can talk about shot placement all we want but in an extreme dynamic encounter, the BG(s) want to live as much as do we.... and if they are armed, they are certainly going to be shooting back. Trying to hit center mass with desirable shot placement is NOT about to be a cut and dried simple task under these extremes and when your mind is racing with adrenaline being dumped into your body. Things are going to be going down really quick and you will probably find yourself expending most of your ammunition in rapid fashion just like your attacker is doing. Not going to be easy to deliver proper and effective shot placement under these conditions. The reason we train to perfect proper technique and shot placement is because we want our mind body to learn these things and to do them naturally and automatically should the need arise. Training increases our chances of delivering effective shots to an assailant(s).

So we train, and that is definitely better than the person who finally decides to buy a gun, takes it to a range for its, and his, initial introduction to live fire, then puts it in a closet only to see range time a few times a year at best. But when the SHTF and it's in your face like RIGHT NOW, what is going to work best for you is proper technique, proper hold, sight acquisition or point shooting, and controlling your rapidly rising excitement and anxiety. The time for shaking and cold sweats should come after the event. Add to this the will to loose deadly rounds into your adversary and you stand a decent chance of keeping any extra holes, cuts, or blunt force trauma from your body.

Sorry if this is a little long and rambling but I am a firm believe in frequent doses of reality intermixed with our training and discussions. I am also a firm believe in the fact that no one really knows how they are going to react in an extreme dynamic encounter until it is staring them in the face... unless they have had a similar experience(s) in the past. Bringing oneself back down to earth is healthy in the world of going armed and just may keep you alive and whole.

Stay safe, my friends.


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## Amsdorf (Jan 19, 2012)

Very well said sir, thank you.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> It's a shame that you find this taking place in your state. I really hate to hear of states and locales where the police or elected officials think they can ride herd on those who employ them and own the government. We rarely see any problems with law enforcement down here when they encounter a citizen carrying a firearm out in the open. Yes it has happened but when it does, we rally around the victim and make things difficult for the local servants by attending town council meetings (armed) and contacting their superiors. In all the time I have been carrying (over 17 years on a regular basis with the last five years mostly open), I have never had a negative encounter with an LEO. Quite the contrary. And this is how I expect it to go since they work for us.
> 
> It has also been my experience that folks who go armed on a regular basis, be it open or concealed, are serious individuals and take serious what they are doing. They train and they practice proper firearms handling. I'm sure there are a few cowboys out there but I would wager you'd be hard pressed to find any in my neck of the woods.
> 
> For the record, I do conceal when I deem it to be in my better interests at a given time and place and under a given set of circumstances. But most often it's out in the open. I don't do this for show or to send a message. I do it because I have osteoarthritis in both of my knees so I can no longer fight or run as I was once capable of doing. I see my visible little friend as a warning to those who may wish to do me harm that perhaps they may want to pick another victim.


I live about 20 min. from the largest city in my state. Lots of illegal firearms and shooting problems, which unfortunately, rub off on legal citizens and LEO's alike. Last year, we had major incidents at the State Fair, with groups of "thugs" attacking people on the street and in their cars. Some people were hurt, and others were hesitant to get involved, due to the size of some of these groups. Luckily for them, I guess, conceal carry hadn't been passed yet. Local LEO was totally caught off guard, and fair security was useless. This year should prove interesting, as once again, the fair is coming up. I, for one, will not be attending, due to the fact that firearms are prohibited from the fairgrounds, concealed. OC is legal, but haven't heard anything about that, but I am assuming that this will be prohibited also. It's a shame that law abiding citizens cannot or won't attend their local state fair, because they don't feel comfortable, not being able to protect themselves, if necessary. Should be interesting........


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

berettabone said:


> I live about 20 min. from the largest city in my state. Lots of illegal firearms and shooting problems, which unfortunately, rub off on legal citizens and LEO's alike. Last year, we had major incidents at the State Fair, with groups of "thugs" attacking people on the street and in their cars. Some people were hurt, and others were hesitant to get involved, due to the size of some of these groups. Luckily for them, I guess, conceal carry hadn't been passed yet. Local LEO was totally caught off guard, and fair security was useless. This year should prove interesting, as once again, the fair is coming up. I, for one, will not be attending, due to the fact that firearms are prohibited from the fairgrounds, concealed. OC is legal, but haven't heard anything about that, but I am assuming that this will be prohibited also. It's a shame that law abiding citizens cannot or won't attend their local state fair, because they don't feel comfortable, not being able to protect themselves, if necessary. Should be interesting........


I heard about this and it is indeed a shame. I heard it was racially motivated with young black gangs attacking whites with "mobbing" attacks. This has been happening in other parts of the country but to my knowledge, we have not seen this in my state.... yet. If it does begin here, I would bet it would take root in the Tidewater area and/or Richmond and its burbs.

Going armed and keeping with crowds is your best defense if you are out and about in such areas. Keep your SA constant and watch your back. I really do hate to see this sort of thing happening.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

Great post Southern boy.Yeah crime is everywhere.I thought the same when I moved back home.Alot of the areas that was once really nice have problems now.It is everywhere.With the rise of the supergangs such as MS-13 and 18 spreading all over the country,violence has increased.Alot of these arrested are deported and return to be arrested again in a violent criminal act.That is the main reason I decided to arm myself.WE had a police chief from a nearby small town I grew up in urge citizens to arm themselves.I have found through my life experiences that showing a possible attacker you are not prey they tend to look elsewhere.I am speaking of such as resolution,putting on your game face and ready to draw.SA has got to be a part of life if you want to avoid trouble.Some people just have Prey stamped all over them.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

You heard correctly.....this also happened at a local festival, and at a large mall in my area....funny, since CCW passed, I haven't heard about any incidents lately...could be coincidence, could be because they have an ordinance passed, that states that you cannot be a juvenile at the mall after 3:00 pm unless accompanied by an adult......had some bus drivers being assaulted also......haven't heard of any of those in a while either. I am hoping that word is out, even though most of these idiots don't pay attention anyway, that now, people have had enough, and have a tool to possibly make life a bit harder for these individuals, and I use that term loosely. CC has only been in place since Nov.1-2011, but seems to be having some effect. The state has had to hire 9 more individuals to administer the state license........I think that the state predicted that approx. 60 to 80 thou. people would apply.....as of a few weeks ago, it was at 120 thou. and climbing.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

I read an FBI report that the 2011 crime rate was actually down and feel it is realted to the increased number of armed citizens.Geraldo did a story once and interviewed incarcerated felons and they basically laughed at law and cops and the only thing they were afraid of was armed citizens.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

skullfr said:


> Great post Southern boy.Yeah crime is everywhere.I thought the same when I moved back home.Alot of the areas that was once really nice have problems now.It is everywhere.With the rise of the supergangs such as MS-13 and 18 spreading all over the country,violence has increased.Alot of these arrested are deported and return to be arrested again in a violent criminal act.That is the main reason I decided to arm myself.WE had a police chief from a nearby small town I grew up in urge citizens to arm themselves.I have found through my life experiences that showing a possible attacker you are not prey they tend to look elsewhere.I am speaking of such as resolution,putting on your game face and ready to draw.SA has got to be a part of life if you want to avoid trouble.*Some people just have Prey stamped all over them.*


Boy are you correct with this. All of us let our guard down from time to time. We go places where we feel that "nothing's going to happen here" and thank God, almost always that is true. But the thing about carrying a defensive firearm is this.

The chance of you having to use it is zero percent.... until it's 100 percent. There is no in-between.

The area in which I live is demographically part of Northern Virginia, which has a population of 2.6 million people. It also is very affluent with two of its counties the wealthiest in the nation (Loudoun and Fairfax) whose combined population is 1.3 million. Crime in Northern Virginia tends to be somewhat isolated into defined areas which natives and long time residents know. There has been an increase of home invasions in a few areas but that hasn't hit the part of Prince William County where I live... at least not to any degree. The police here are pretty good and also aware of folks who carry which means we don't really have any run-ins or problems with law enforcement when carrying concealed or open. The area has perhaps only about 20% natives, of which I am one, with the rest coming from other parts of the nation and the world. However for some reason, they just seem to know and accept the fact that here in Virginia, the carrying of a firearm is a traditional and cultural thing. Perhaps it's because of the fact that there is so much history here.

If I may divert, this has been a good thread with good discussion and interesting contributions. The OP did a great job of opening the discourse with his essay and you folks have keep things completely above board and civil. I don't see that as frequently on some sites as I would like so I would like to offer a personal Thank You.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

nothing like good discussion.It brings things out some are not aware of.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Guns are just like anything else in society. No matter where you go, you will find that 10% that should not even be breathing, let alone have their hands on anything from a gun to an automobile.


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Training, education and the developement of the warrior/survivor mindset should begin as a child by learning it from dad and grand-dad. Guns are not as big of a part of our culture as they once were and still should be. Once we have it figured out we need to teach our kids.


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well done post


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## velo99 (May 21, 2012)

In the essay portion of this lesson we learned the possible necessity to take a life is the only reason we carry. That moment will either push one to condition red or black. The intensity of the training we have had as well as discussions like this will prepare us for that possiblity.
Notice I said intensity not amount. Muscle memory is a good thing in those situations. As for the actual trigger pull will you act or react ? The intensity of your training will determine that. Shooting targets does not qualify as intensity. 
Participation in an IDPA or similar program will hone those skills. It might possibly raise the intensity level to give you that adrenelin rush during weapons handling to prepare for an encounter with a BG. It all boils down to victim or survivor. Which are you, really ?

ps
I left my weapon at home this morning and felt naked so I went back and got it.


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