# First Handgun ~ You get this alot.



## Freey Byrd (Oct 8, 2009)

I realize you get this alot--yes I am looking to purchase my first handgun.
Last year I shout an HK USP, Kimber Gold Match II, and a Glock 22 (I believe).

To be honest, I liked the feel of the 1911 the most. I like the Glock the least. I have fairly large hands and am looking to carry this handgun. 

I'm thinking a compact 1911 in either 45ACP or 40S&W will be in my best interest. However, I want to spend $600>.

What would you suggest?


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

Freey Byrd said:


> I realize you get this alot--yes I am looking to purchase my first handgun.
> Last year I shout an HK USP, Kimber Gold Match II, and a Glock 22 (I believe).
> 
> To be honest, I liked the feel of the 1911 the most. I like the Glock the least. I have fairly large hands and am looking to carry this handgun.
> ...


What did you not like about the glock? I don't like them either, but I'm asking what about it turned you away? There's a few guns that share its characteristics that you can be steered away from. Also, do you feel comfortable with a 1911's safety?


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## Freey Byrd (Oct 8, 2009)

YFZsandrider said:


> What did you not like about the glock? I don't like them either, but I'm asking what about it turned you away? There's a few guns that share its characteristics that you can be steered away from. Also, do you feel comfortable with a 1911's safety?


I don't know exactly. Just the way it felt I suppose. The 1911 just felt "good" in my hands.
And from what i remember, yes.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I own a Kimber Pro CDP II in .45 cal. - If it's cool weather I carry it on my strong side hip.

It has the following "standard" on it:
Made entirely in the Kimber Custom Shop.
Night Sights, Meprolight Tritium 3-dot night sights.
Compact and Pro Carry pistols have 4-inch bushingless match grade bull barrels.
Barrels and chambers are match grade for accuracy.
Breech faces are polished.
Ejection ports are lowered and flared for reliable function.
Slides are machined from solid stainless steel and given a satin finish that will not reflect light.
Compact Stainless II has a shorter frame yet retains 7-round magazine capacity. 8 rounds is a Wilson Combat Magazine.
Kimber aluminum frames have been lab tested to over 20,000 rounds without evidence of meaningful wear.
All Compact and Pro Carry pistols use a proven single recoil spring design.
Available with steel, stainless steel or lightweight aluminum frames that reduce overall weight.
Crimson Trace® Lasergrips.
Tactical Rail.
Deep front strap checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
Deep rear strap checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
Deep trigger front grooving.
Deep bottom trigger guard checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
Checkered flat mainspring housing.
Match grade Premium Aluminum Trigger.
Skeletonized Trigger.
Trigger set to 4.5 pounds trigger pull, no creep.
Match grade trigger breaks clean and consistently every time.
Skeletonized Hammer.
Sights and edges are rounded and blended for easy carry w/o snagging clothing.
Beveled magazine well.
Magazine release button is extended for fast reloading.
Extended ambidextrous thumb safety.
Kimber aluminum frames are machined from solid blocks of 7075-T7 aluminum to the same critical dimensions as the steel frames.
Adding these features during the manufacturing process reduces their retail cost by over $500

The S&W .45 I carried on duty had almost none of these - I added a lot to it .

You can get all of this on almost any .45 with the help of a gunsmith & after market parts , but it's available straight from the factory when you buy the Kimber I bought.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/crimson_carry/

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Pro...4/Default.aspx

I hope this helps.

:smt1099


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

Glocks have an unique angle of the handle that makes them feel unnatural to many people. The world of 1911s is a zoo. Lots of different manufacturers and available models. Before you zero in on the 1911 platform(and it is a great one!), you might want to take a look at some of the other actions to see that there is not something that you prefer. Whether it be double action only(DAO), single action only(SAO), double action/single action(DA/SA), striker or hammer fired... there are many different choices.

Caliber is another issue. Shoot some of the popular self defense calibers, and see what you shoot best. Forget about "stopping power" and hi capacity issues. Just break it down to what you shoot best. A smaller caliber *hit* is far better than a 'knock-down-packing' *miss*.

The 1911 is a great design, and I love mine! But the weight of them, and the more manageable recoil of 9mm, coupled with higher capacity, make my Sig the perfect carry piece for me.

no matter what you get, sooner or later... you'll want another!


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Just a few thoughts on compact 1911's. I like them, too, but reliability can be an issue, if everything is not just right. Squeezing a .45 down into a small package is tricky, and there have been some problems, in the past, even in the good brands. You need to be diligent in keeping the rails and feed ramp smooth, and replace the springs regularly, if you practice a lot.

Also, even the compact 1911's are still too large for a pocket gun, so that means you will likely end up carrying it IWB, in which case you are really not much better off with the compact than you would be with a Commander-sized (4") 1911, because the grip is the hard part to conceal - not the barrel.

With an adjustable holster, you can tilt a full-size 1911 forward, so that the grip is almost vertical, and it is fairly easy to conceal. The length of the barrel is not that much of a limiting factor, so why bother with a 3" when you can have a 4" or 5"? The 4" Commander-sized 1911's are the same design as a full-sized 1911, and have the same degree of reliability, whereas the 3" is a 're-engineered' 1911 that has been trimmed wherever possible and has beefed up double springs, just to make it function (hopefully) as well as the original 1911.


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## Freey Byrd (Oct 8, 2009)

> dondavis3


Thanks for the response. However, @ or under $600 is what I'm looking to spend..



> YFZsandrider


Great info. Perhaps a 1911 in .40 owuld be a good route?

And what kind of Sig do you carry?

[/QUOTE]


Bisley said:


> Just a few thoughts on compact 1911's. I like them, too, but reliability can be an issue, if everything is not just right. Squeezing a .45 down into a small package is tricky, and there have been some problems, in the past, even in the good brands. You need to be diligent in keeping the rails and feed ramp smooth, and replace the springs regularly, if you practice a lot.
> 
> Also, even the compact 1911's are still too large for a pocket gun, so that means you will likely end up carrying it IWB, in which case you are really not much better off with the compact than you would be with a Commander-sized (4") 1911, because the grip is the hard part to conceal - not the barrel.
> 
> With an adjustable holster, you can tilt a full-size 1911 forward, so that the grip is almost vertical, and it is fairly easy to conceal. The length of the barrel is not that much of a limiting factor, so why bother with a 3" when you can have a 4" or 5"? The 4" Commander-sized 1911's are the same design as a full-sized 1911, and have the same degree of reliability, whereas the 3" is a 're-engineered' 1911 that has been trimmed wherever possible and has beefed up double springs, just to make it function (hopefully) as well as the original 1911.


Thanks for the response! Very educational.

So, as of now a 4" Commander looks about right, assuming I still go with a 1911.

Now, I have not fired many handguns in the past, so my knowledge of them is somewhat limited. Is there anything else that has the "feel" of a 1911 that I may like?


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

I carry a Sig 228 9mm. Good size for a concealed carry piece, not as slim as a 1911, but a better weight, and very well balanced! 16 rds of 9mm doesn't hurt either!

Back to your situation... for $600 you won't be able to find a short barreled 1911, not new anyway. And I doubt you could pick one up used, unless it is a brand that you simply don't want to mess with.

If you are very set on that price range, then look at some of the other platforms available. and... nothing wrong with going used. Often times, you can get more gun for your money that way.

But there's so many different options out there, do you have any idea what direction you want to go? Meaning, do you have any requirements in a handgun?


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## Freey Byrd (Oct 8, 2009)

> do you have any idea what direction you want to go? Meaning, do you have any requirements in a handgun?


Explain what you mean. Please excuse my ignorance.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

You can get a compact (3") 1911 from Rock Island Armory for well within your price range. They are known to be a very good but very basic 1911. I think the Charles Daly line is also made by the same company, but I'm not sure.

You can check the gunbroker website to get ideas of current prices.


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

Freey Byrd said:


> Explain what you mean. Please excuse my ignorance.


for instance- you said you have fired a Glock. Glock is a striker fired pistol, as opposed to a hammer fired weapon. Is that somehting you mind? Also, did you mind the lack of an external safety on the Glock? Some people, especially when new to guns, don't want something without an external safety lever, even though most handguns will compensate with either a scissor trigger(as the glock has), a grip safety, a long double action trigger pull(whether for the first shot, as a Sig, or every shot), or some combinatin of these.

So again, do you have any preferences or requirements in features or action styles?


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

PhilR. said:


> You can get a compact (3") 1911 from Rock Island Armory for well within your price range. They are known to be a very good but very basic 1911. I think the Charles Daly line is also made by the same company, but I'm not sure.
> 
> You can check the gunbroker website to get ideas of current prices.


I would stay away from some of these cheap 1911 brands. If you're looking for an extremely reliable 1911, you're gonna be spending more than your $600 budget to get there. For the same money you can get into a reliable Springfield XD, Glock, Sig, CZ, etc.


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## Freey Byrd (Oct 8, 2009)

Idk, the Glock just felt weird in my hands. I suppose an external safety doesn't really matter much. I guess I don't really have a preference, although SA/DA seems somewhat ideal.

What about a Beretta PX4 or 90two/92f(/s)?


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

YFZsandrider said:


> I would stay away from some of these cheap 1911 brands.


If a pistol is both accurate and reliable, what reason would there be to stay away from it? Isn't that what you want in a handgun?


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

Freey Byrd said:


> Idk, the Glock just felt weird in my hands. I suppose an external safety doesn't really matter much. I guess I don't really have a preference, although SA/DA seems somewhat ideal.
> 
> What about a Beretta PX4 or 90two/92f(/s)?


I've heard alot of good about the PX4, but never even handled or shot one. and the 92 is a proven classic. But, both are 2 completely different guns.

You really need to get out to a range and shoot some of these guns that you are interested in. The biggest difference between the two that you mentioned, the PX4 is a polymer framed gun and the Baretta 92 is a steel frame. The 2 guns will have a completely different feel when handled and fired. The 92 is propably a bit much in size for concealed carry, but the PX$ would fit the bill.

Based on the guns you've suggested, it seems that your options are cost driven. I'll tell you right off that you're propably looking at a polymer framed gun. Personally I like the Sig Sauer platform of a double action/single action pistol. There is no external safety to worry about when drawing the weapon, but you will have a long, firm double action trigger pull for the first round, and every round following will be a shorter single action pull. Generally, traditional Sigs are going to be out of your price range, but Sig does have a polymer framed model, the Sig sp2022. Usually $499 is a good price for them, but they can be purchased online for less. Take a good look at this model!


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

PhilR. said:


> If a pistol is both accurate and reliable, what reason would there be to stay away from it? Isn't that what you want in a handgun?


Reliable. A particular gun may be reliable, but how a brand performs on the whole is what someone should look at. Let me ask you this... When you look at Charles Daly, what in particular is attractive about them. Do you admire the quality displayed in their firearms... the long track record of dead on reliability... or is it the low price that catches your eye and brings you to justify one based on the idea that they *can *be good guns?!

I'm not trying to bash... I just see firearms as far too important a purchase to base on price.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

YFZsandrider said:


> Let me ask you this... When you look at Charles Daly, what in particular is attractive about them. Do you admire the quality displayed in their firearms...
> 
> *I don't admire the quality -- it is the same as many other brands commonly used, and nothing special. I'll start to admire when a pistol gets to Hammerli levels of workmanship.*
> 
> ...


Obviously you've not ever used a RIA, since you really do not show any evidence of having used one and are pretty much parroting what other non-users have said on the various forums. But that's ok - if you don't like them, don't get one, and the OP can check them out and make his own decision too. At least he now knows of a handgun that meets his original stated requirements.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Freey Byrd said:


> ...Now, I have not fired many handguns in the past, so my knowledge of them is somewhat limited. Is there anything else that has the "feel" of a 1911 that I may like?


CZ or Sig pistols have the same basic 'feel' as a 1911 - exposed hammer, same grip angle, etc., with the added advantage (in my opinion) of being DA/SA, meaning that you can carry them with the hammer down on a live round, and still be able to draw and fire without having to flip a safety off.

The CZ's are probably within your stated price range, and they have some of the best values (bang for the buck) of any gun. I have a RAMI model in 9mm, and find it to be an almost perfect IWB carry gun.

Sigs are great guns, but cost a little more than CZ's.


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

*Great handgun*



Freey Byrd said:


> Idk, the Glock just felt weird in my hands. I suppose an external safety doesn't really matter much. I guess I don't really have a preference, although SA/DA seems somewhat ideal.
> 
> What about a Beretta PX4 or 90two/92f(/s)?


You should certainly go check out the Px4. I carry this pistol in 9mm SA/DA and I love it. Having said that, go to a range where you can shoot it and see what you think. It is also available in Sub Compact, which i was not concerned with. I would rather have the 17 round magazine capacity that mine came with. It is not overly difficult to conceal. Other pistols that I think you would favor are Sig220 and the HK USP. No matter what you think you want to go with, try out as many as you can, your opinion will probably change more than once.


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

PhilR. said:


> Obviously you've not ever used a RIA, since you really do not show any evidence of having used one and are pretty much parroting what other non-users have said on the various forums. But that's ok - if you don't like them, don't get one, and the OP can check them out and make his own decision too. At least he now knows of a handgun that meets his original stated requirements.


I have never owned an RIA or Charles Daly, no. I don't buy guns that I hear poor things about, period. Having a gun as _part_ of a colllection, and having one as your only defense are two totally different thing. The OP does not want to buy a gun with mixed reviews and say to himself, "Well, let's see if this works for me."

1911s can run like a clock, but they are also a very complicated design when compared to others, and therefore can be very finicky. You may have an RIA that works well for you... but they do not compare in reliability and quality to, say a Springfield... period.

I'm sure some Yugos are still on the road... but I'll go with Toyota!


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

YFZsandrider said:


> I'm sure some Yugos are still on the road... but I'll go with Toyota!


I get your point, and agree, but I despise Toyota...


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## hi im drummer03 (Oct 27, 2008)

My order would be

H&K USP
Glock(maybe least on your list since you didnt like Glock)
S&W M&P
SA XD


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

falchunt said:


> I get your point, and agree, but I despise Toyota...


I used to be as well... I'm a huge blue oval fan! but I eventually had to give in to the dark side, they're just so damn reliable!


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## WinM70 (Jul 6, 2008)

My first was a Ruger KP89DC, still have it.


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## SIGness (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm not a 1911 guru by any means what so ever. As a matter of fact, I've only shot off the top of my head, 4 or 5. The one I liked the best was a Kimber Crimson Carry. Nice little gun, big fat price tag. As is the case with most 1911's. And from reading what most elitest say in regards to them is a good 1911 is out of your price range. I can not confirm or deny this, but where there's smoke there's fire. Just my theory, doesn't mean its right, wrong, or the other.

I'd drop this type of question in the 1911 section and let the guru's fill you in. At least then you'll get more reply's from people who bleed 1911. There probably already is a thread similar now.


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## gtriever (Oct 17, 2009)

Less than 600, look into a GI model 1911. No bells and whistles, and usually the sights leave a lot to be desired, but it'll get you a good shooter and later you can have the sights replaced. Both of these have been excellent performers for me:


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