# Question! Essay purposes.



## detrunorm (Jan 9, 2013)

I tried to post a topic earlier (like nine hours ago) and it said it had to be approved and then nothing happened, and I've seen other threads appear so I'll try again... if that's wrong then please let me know!

Basically... would a handgun (and if so, which ones) have the power to pierce a car door or door window from 50m away? And still have the power to kill someone inside?

I know that car doors and windows (not the windshield) offer little resistance to bullets (I can link to evidence), but the tests done were at a much closer range. I'm not sure if they would still do that if they were 50m away.

Please reference information, preferably along with pictures or a video to show that it's been tested.

If a handgun wouldn't do this, what other types of weapon would you recommend? (I've been given a scenario in which I have to find the best gun to assassinate someone in a car 50m away, avoiding collateral damage.)


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## goNYG (Apr 4, 2012)

I could be wrong , but it's not necessarily the handgun but rather the ammunition. That said, the FN Five-Seven handgun was designed as an armor-piercing weapon. It shoots a special round.


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## 95chevy (Nov 3, 2012)

What kind of assignmentis this for? But to answer the question ide say at 50m I would pick perhaps a large caliber revolver with at least a 6" barrel. But really a rifle would be more suited to longer distances.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Check through the tests at _The Box o' Truth_. I think that they've done this.
Click on: The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

The answer to your question is more ammunition-dependent than gun-dependent, although you have to use the proper gun that fits the (fairly powerful) cartridge.
The .357 Magnum cartridge was originally designed for exactly that use, as was the .38 Super. Nowadays, there are bullets that have been designed for that specific use, too.


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## detrunorm (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I'll look up the guns mentioned and also look into ammunition.

95chevy - I'm doing a physics degree and we have a ballistics module as a kind of fun part of the course, to give us a little break. Don't worry, I'm in the UK, no chance of me shooting anyone. And I agree, a rifle would be good, but we need to choose two different types of guns and compare them. My other gun is going to be a rifle. (I was thinking semi auto, military type? But then I was worried about collateral damage.)

Steve - Thanks for the link. I've also used something from that site - The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth - which shows penetration through different car parts. However he used the handgun at a much shorter range and I didn't know if it would hold up at 50m. I'll read through the test you posted too.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

The cartridges mentioned by Steve and their reasons for being developed would certainly get through. The .41 Magnum was introduced in 1964 for the same purpose and for use by patrolmen. The venerated .44 Magnum would certainly do this with a lot of room to spare. There are a bunch of other handgun cartridges which would easily pass this test. The original .454 Casull Magnum left the muzzle at 2100 fps with 2000 ft/lbs of energy from a tri-plex load. It has been toned down a bit. There are more. Another relatively common contemporary cartridge is the 10mm.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

50 miles people!!!!!!


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

berettabone said:


> 50 miles people!!!!!!


Probably meant meters!!!!!!!!!


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

VAMarine said:


> Probably meant meters!!!!!!!!!


Yeah I took that as meters, too.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

In Europe and the UK, the "M" suffix indicates _meters_, not miles. They no longer use miles.


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## guardrail (May 23, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> In Europe and the UK, the "M" suffix indicates _meters_, not miles. They no longer use miles.


Did they ever. And why are we doing the OP homework?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

guardrail said:


> Did they ever[?]...


Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and Eire all used miles, yards, feet, and inches until fairly recently.
Western Europe used the Roman mile and foot until the mid-1800s. Russia used its own measurement system, based upon the _verst_, until the 1917 revolution.



guardrail said:


> And why are we doing the OP homework?


Because we are all really, really nice people.
(Actually, I believe only in leading him in the generally correct direction.)


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Who are you writing this essay for? Soldier of Fortune Magazine?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

denner said:


> Who are you writing this essay for? Soldier of Fortune Magazine?


The OP recently wrote: "I'm doing a physics degree and we have a ballistics module as a kind of fun part of the course, to give us a little break."


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

See anything on here, saying he/she is from a European country? If you do, I guess I'll have to get my glasses changed.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

berettabone said:


> See anything on here, saying he/she is from a European country? If you do, I guess I'll have to get my glasses changed.


No, but I don't see anything that says he isn't either....

Edited to add: see post 5


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Sorry, I never assume.


VAMarine said:


> No, but I don't see anything that says he isn't either....
> 
> Edited to add: see post 5


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

berettabone said:


> Sorry, I never assume.


Sure you do. You just assumed he was in the US.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

To quote from his earlier post #5: "...I'm in the UK..."

Time to visit the optometrist, *berettabone*. :anim_lol:


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## detrunorm (Jan 9, 2013)

Haha. I'm a she! And the UK still uses miles. We're midway between adjusting (but I don't think we ever will). We use litres of fuel and pints of milk, miles on road signs and miles per hour speed, but measure shorter distances in metres rather than yards. Feet and inches for height and stone and pounds for weight. Just to clear all that up. In schools they measure your height in metres and cm but everyone in the real world use feet. All things science-y use metric too, obviously.

And yeah, I was asking for more a hint in the right direction, as then I can look up the guns. Kinda like if I were in America I might be able to ask someone who shoots guns. But nobody does that over here, most gun knowledge comes from Call of Duty. Reading through every gun in the database would be a silly and time consuming thing to do. Thanks for the help. 

I'll let you know what I get in the essay!


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

I guess I'll be heading to Lenscrafters tomorrow............rayer:.........others assumed it was a male, so I guess we're even....still using miles in the UK...imagine that.


Steve M1911A1 said:


> To quote from his earlier post #5: "...I'm in the UK..."
> 
> Time to visit the optometrist, *berettabone*. :anim_lol:


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

berettabone said:


> I guess I'll be heading to Lenscrafters tomorrow............rayer:........*.others assumed it was a male*, so I guess we're even....still using miles in the UK...imagine that.


It's actually "proper" English to use the masculine when the gender is unknown. :mrgreen:


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Some people just won't admit when they are wrong......I can.....can you?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

detrunorm said:


> ...I'll let you know what I get in the essay!


Please send us a copy, or link us to it.
I know that I'll be interested in reading it, even if you use meters and joules (or even ergs).


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