# Advice for new handgun hobbyist and his son



## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

Hey guys,

So I would really like to buy a handgun or two for the purpose of hobby shooting with my sons (9 & 13 years old). I hunt and own a couple hunting rifles but have little experience with hand guns. I have only ever fired a few hand guns in my life so have little experience with all the various makes, models, ammo options etc. Before I ask for advice I guess I will outline the line of thinking I am using and then you guys can hopefully correct that if need be and offer your own suggestions. This is mostly for me and my 13 year old, I think I will start my 9 year old off with a .22 revolver. This is mainly for recreational shooting but possibly may lead to more competitive type shooting as my sons have a lot of interest in that. But this gun would be primarily for recreation. 

For my 13 year old and I:

I think I would prefer something in a smaller caliber that is easy to manipulate, break down, clean etc. I want to teach my sons how to responsibly own firearms, not just how to shoot so maintenance, cleaning etc. will be part of that. I don't want my son to be intimidated by a larger caliber pistol. I want him to feel in control and not scared of pulling the trigger. Semi-automatic is preferred.

I want something that can fire common ammunition that is plentiful and cheap. I don't want ammo availability/price to be a deterrent to getting out and shooting.

So, what sort of suggestions can you guys offer? This will hopefully just be the first of many firearms we buy and shoot together as I would love for this to be an activity I can share with my kids for life. I just want to start my collection off with a good all around gun that anyone could have fun shooting. Thanks guys.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Well, i'm sure you'll get alot of good advice, this site is great and the members are helpful and knowleadgeable. Of course the .22 is the all time starter caliber for new shooters, and from there it gets interesting. I'd go with 9mm in a fullsize to no lesser than a compact model. My reasoning is the smaller caliber pistols lets say .32, 380, generally come in small framed handguns and are gonna snap and bark as much as a fullsize 9mm pistol in my experience and I really can't advise starting a new shooter off with a small pistol. You will have many good suggestions but I can only suggest what I have experience with and think appropriate. I believe the larger 380's may be an option such as Bersa or Beretta 84. Although as suggested, a full size 9mm will be not much more to handle, and ammo is cheaper. I've heard good reviews from smaller women with S&W M&P compact which is very ergonomical for smaller hands and shoots relatively soft. However, a good DA/SA like a Beretta PX4 Storm fullsize and compact have numerous safety feautures to consider for the new shooter and are a breeze to breakdown and clean, which would be my first suggestion, and are the only two I own and have experience with. You'll get plenty of other great suggestions I'm sure. Good shooting!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Any full-size, all-steel handgun in 9mm or .45 ACP would be appropriate for a 13-year-old, assuming access to very-high-quality, professional instruction.

However, your best bet would more likely be a Ruger .22 rimfire semi-auto. If you can find a clean, gently-used one, it would also be comparatively inexpensive.
The only bad thing about them is that they are extremely difficult to take apart. But the good part is that, using modern, decent-quality ammunition, you do not have to take it apart for cleaning, at least not very often.
The Ruger semi-auto .22 is reliable, easy to handle, and easy to shoot.
Bonus: Your nine-year-old can handle this gun too.


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## jtguns (Sep 25, 2011)

I agree with steve about the Ruger, a nice mark II, although break down and cleaning are easy when you learn the trick to it. For a major caliber i wiould look to a wheel gun to start with, maybe a S&W M 19 so that you can shoot .38 or.357 mag and ammo is cheap for .38 also.
Just my thoughts
JT


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

+1 on the .22.....might take a look at S&W's new M&P .22 as well as Ruger


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Get a Ruger 10/.22 Rifle and a Ruger MK-III pistol. Start them both out with safty courses at a range. If they have .22 leagues there get them involved. You may want to buy two MK-III's and you could get in a Bullseye league too. You will meet a lot of good people and the boys will make many new friends. Good luck. :smt033


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## LeoM (Jul 7, 2011)

Like as already been said, a .22 handgun is a great tool. Of the five foundational items for effecive handgun shooting, recoil control is the only thing you cannot learn with a .22 or even a quality pellet pistol. If you reload, most any centerfire pistol will fill the nitch for bigger bore pistols. If you have to buy ammo, 9mm is the cheapest, generally meaning you can shoot more. As already mentioned, a full sized pistol is the easiest to learn recoil control. In my part time job at a gun shop/range, unless a persons hand is WAY too small, I generally take them to a Beretta 92 FS 9mm as a next step. It has both single and double action, a manual safety and is very smooth on the recoil. The S&W 5906 is another pistol that I often use. Since Glocks really do not have any safety, and does not have any other modes of operation, I generally do not use those when I instruct.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

22 revolver is a solid choice.

full sized 9mm would be a solid choice. I would suggest an all steel 1911 frame in 9mm as a beginner's pistol because there are plenty of safety features on a 1911 to ensure that a new shooter doesn't make a mistake. also with the 1911 it has a single action trigger which will help you to learn trigger control.

I would steer away from da/sa trigger systems because there are two forms of trigger control to master.

If a 1911 isn't in the cards for you Ruger's sr9c or sr9 are great guns, I also really like the look and feel of Smith & Wesson's M&P9.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

NCarrell40 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I would really like to buy a handgun or two for the purpose of hobby shooting with my sons (9 & 13 years old). I hunt and own a couple hunting rifles but have little experience with hand guns. I have only ever fired a few hand guns in my life so have little experience with all the various makes, models, ammo options etc. Before I ask for advice I guess I will outline the line of thinking I am using and then you guys can hopefully correct that if need be and offer your own suggestions. This is mostly for me and my 13 year old, I think I will start my 9 year old off with a .22 revolver. This is mainly for recreational shooting but possibly may lead to more competitive type shooting as my sons have a lot of interest in that. But this gun would be primarily for recreation.
> 
> ...


Well, personally, if you really do not intend on using it for a serious self-defense situation, then I would go with a Ruger Mk III. It is a .22 LR chambered handgun that is pretty accurate and easy to maintain. It will last you your lifetime, and your son's. I would recommend a Glock 19 for something that could be used as a self-defense tool as well. The 9mm is fairly cheap to shoot and the Glock will last you for years. (It is really easy to clean as well). JMHO.:mrgreen:


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## DWARREN123 (May 11, 2006)

For a 22lr I would go with a semi auto like Bersa, good little firearm for the money and they also make some nice and inexpensive larger caliber handguns. I myself like Glocks in fullsize.
22lr is a fine caliber but unless you use the very best ammo it will give some problems in any firearm. :mrgreen:
Just my opinion.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

I cannot imagine a 13 yr old hands fitting a full size 9mm or 45.
Get a Ruger 22 because they are the most reliable.
Get on rivers web site to study their options - single action - double action sp101 or the lcr in 22 - and for SEMIAUTO 
they have Mkiii or 22/45 or the sr22
Lots of choices


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

At 13, their hand will grow fast. I know my kids did.


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## Gunners_Mate (Feb 17, 2010)

Miko Andres (7) world's youngest practical shooter 6 years old - YouTube

7 year old shooting full size wilson combat in competition. there's videos of him doing it when he was six too. Just to combat the handgun size argument.

first firearm I ever fired was a .308 rifle when I was 5, and it knocked me on my ass, literally. The first time anyways. We learn from our mistakes. Proper instruction should prevent most mistakes to begin with.


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## rgrundy (Jul 16, 2011)

I would go with the Ruger semi-auto pistol and get involved in some bullseye competition and then some .22 Steel Challenge. The steel challenge is done from a ready position and you do not draw the pistol so it's pretty safe. Being involved will put you in contact with other shooters who will help you and probably let you shoot their centerfire pistols and help you make a good decision. Just remember a pistol is very easy to point in an unsafe direction and your sons will need constant supervision. The Ruger Mark II or III is hard to clean but not too bad if you just strip the grips off of it then put it in a bath of cleaner like M-Pro and scrub it with a nylon brush.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

My niece is 13 years old and handles a 92FS just fine and shoots very well, she also handles a 12 gauge shot gun with no problem. As far as DA/SA, I wouldn't worry about the DA pull at first just let them shoot in SA until they get confident shooting the pistol and become proficient and then move on to the DA if you wish. LeoM is a part time range instructor and trains kids of this age, so evidently he has experience and as such I'd take his opinion highly. Of course as it's the holy grail a new begginer should always begin and become proficient with a .22 caliber pistol before they move on to a heavier caliber pistol.


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice guys. I really appreciate it.

We've decided on a .22 pistol to start things with some high volume shooting thanks to the ammo being so inexpensive. Through our research, we've basically narrowed it down to two guns. The Ruger sr22 and the Umarex Colt 1911 .22LR. I just love the 1911, always have as I love history and was very happy to find they make it in a .22 without having to use a conversion kit. I also think it would be good training for them because it's closer to the same size as regular center fire pistols without the recoil. We are still in the beginning stages of research so any feedback on these two guns would certainly be welcomed.

From there we will do more research for when we eventually add a 9mm and some fun rifles to our collection.

edit - The S&W M&P .22LR is also growing on me fast.


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## Tazman (Jan 13, 2012)

I will go along with the majority with the 22 just because of your background,and i dont mean that in a disrespectful way.I just think it would be safer for a while.My daughter is 15 and shoots my Sig P229 40 S&W,my Glock 26 9mm all the time with no problem .Actually she shoots the Sig better than i do.She wants to shoot the Desert Eagle 44 mag but i think thats a little much yet.Better to start light and work up.If nothing it gives you more of a reason to buy more guns:anim_lol:

The Smith and Wesson 22A is a great little 22 as well.Its the one and only handgun i ever sold and wish to this day i didnt.I ask the guy everytime i see him if he wants to sell it back and he wont.Out of all the boxes i sent down the tube of it it never once jammed.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

Do more research on the umarex and s&w 22's
You will find a lot of threads against them - just saying be cautious
I love the 1911 type 22s also but have not bought one due to several bad reports

Just get a Ruger first and then decide on a second 22 later after more research


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## ubaldorobles (Jan 16, 2012)

consider a beretta u22 neos. I have one I shoot at local steel matches. inexpensive and very reliable, even with bulk ammo. just yesterday, I participated in a steel match. I fired about 140 rounds with no pistol malfunctions. I am teaching a lady friend who'd never shot a handgun before with this neos. the neos is less expensive than the comparable S&W, ruger and browning. I bought the 4" barreled one for $229 at an Academy Sporting Goods store. for optimum shooting performance, keep any semi-automatic firearm cleaned and lubricated...:smt1099


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

hideit said:


> Do more research on the umarex and s&w 22's
> You will find a lot of threads against them - just saying be cautious
> I love the 1911 type 22s also but have not bought one due to several bad reports
> 
> Just get a Ruger first and then decide on a second 22 later after more research


I've looked for all the reviews I could find, official reviews and just different forums, and the only negatives I have come across about the Umarex .22 is that it's made by Umarex and people won't touch it because of that. Whether that's because they are an air soft manufacturer or because they have had bad experience with Umarex firearms in the past, I don't know. But from all the reviews and youtube videos and forum comments I could find from people that actually own it, they all say they love it and would recommend it to anyone. That it shoots whatever type of bulk ammo you want to throw at it with virtually no problems.

Of course, I will continue to research, and thanks to all that have suggested other options. I am researching them all. But right now we kind of have our heart set on the 1911. The way I look at it is, we may as well get a gun that we are in love with first. If it turns out to be a piece of junk, well...it won't be the only gun we buy and it will serve as a lesson learned.

edit - I'm really liking the S&W .22A as well. Thanks for the suggestion, Tazman. It has a great price tag as well. Would you recommend the 5" or 7"?


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## Tazman (Jan 13, 2012)

I had the 7" i believe.It was a while ago when i had it.I got mine the first year they came out with it.Back then i wasnt much on cleaning and just shooting,like i never once cleaned it and never had a problem.The only reason i sold it was because i was young and thought i needed the 175 bucks i sold it for.Ya ya,i was a idiot,lol.I do remember though it was awesome accurate and reliable.The longer the barrel the better it would shoot for sure.Good luck on your choice,All of your choices are good so get what you think you will like.Be warned,you are about to get the addiction of handguns,they are like eating chips,you cant stop with just one.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Any full-size, all-steel handgun in 9mm or .45 ACP would be appropriate for a 13-year-old, assuming access to very-high-quality, professional instruction.
> 
> However, your best bet would more likely be a Ruger .22 rimfire semi-auto. If you can find a clean, gently-used one, it would also be comparatively inexpensive.
> The only bad thing about them is that they are extremely difficult to take apart. But the good part is that, using modern, decent-quality ammunition, you do not have to take it apart for cleaning, at least not very often.
> ...


I was at the gun store the other day and saw a new one for $259.00. I don't know if that is a good price or not, but relatively cheap in any case.

Ruger makes a SP101 in .22 with a 4" barrel and a Hi-Viz front sight and an adjustable rear sight. It will cost about $230.00. The manual of arms is very simple; the sights are good and the sight radius is long enough for precise shooting. I have always felt that a revolver, with the simplified manual of arms, is the best bet for beginners (and old timers like me). They almost never have any feed or extraction issues like an automatic might. An identical version of this Ruger is available in .357/.38 at the same price.

The .22s make the most sense to me for the two kids. If each shot 50 rounds per session (100 total rounds) you would be talking about $2.00 to $4.00 in ammo. If you did the same with a low cost new-manufacture .38 it would cost about $27.00. In 9mm about $18.00.

And kids like to burn through a lot of ammo, so a brick of 500 rounds is about $30.00. So the .22 is not likely to break the bank. Light recoil too.


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

Hey guys,

I took the boys out yesterday to all the gun stores in town to see what they had in stock and to price check. Wouldn't ya know it, one of them had the Umarex Colt 1911 .22 LR for around $300. It was a bit of an impulse buy but I couldn't resist once I had it in my hands.

We braved near zero degree, blizzard conditions for about 4 hours today to go try it out. We drove up in the mountains, started a camp fire and had a great time cooking hot dogs, talking and shooting. Great day of shooting and the boys did an amazing job of listening to and following instructions using proper gun safety and technique (like I said, they have shot quite a few rifles and a few pistols so it wasn't their first time around firearms, just the first time of prolonged shooting with a pistol).

All in all we shot around 600 rounds through the new 1911. 400 CCI minmag round points, 100 CCI minmag hollow points and about 100 American Eagle Federal HV hollow points that I had laying around(I would have been very impressed if it shot these very well at all). The CCI ammo shot just fine with no problems whatsoever in 500 shots but we did have 3 failure to ejects with the American Eagle. the 1911 shot those American Eagle a heck of a lot better than our 10-22 rifle. 

It was an absolutely amazing day with my sons and I look forward to many others. While we were shopping we also saw a few more guns we want including the Mark III, the 22A, the sr22 and and a u22 Neo. So we will be adding to our collection and getting a dueling tree soon. Thanks for the advice guys. This is a great forum.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

that is awesome


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

i'm glad you picked the 22s
loads of fun and lots of shooting without spending a lot of money
i'm glad to hear the positive feedback on the Colt 22 Umarex


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

Another line of thought is getting a 1911 model in .45 AND the 22lr conversion kit.
I have the kit for the 4 inch 1911's and it works well on both my 3" kimber and my 4.25 commander.
They also make the kit for the 5 inch models too.
Best of both worlds
OOps.....too late


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## Tazman (Jan 13, 2012)

That is awesome,Im glad you and your sons are out enjoying it all ready.Thats what its all about.I have been shooting for 30 some odd years and have always enjoyed it but not like i do now with my kids.Son is 21 now and kinda getting out of it but my daughter of 15 is way way addicted to it.We have a blast so i know where you are comeing from.Keep up the fun and buy more guns,lol.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

" but have little experience with handguns" No offense, but you're teaching your children about handguns, and YOU have little experience? Maybe, you ought to GET a little experience first, yourself, before trying to teach...you know what they say..." Those that can, do, and those that can't, teach" No offense, just safety first......


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Actually, my experience has been that the very best learning occurs when you are teaching someone else.
It focusses your attention on the details, and makes you "get it right the first time."


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

You must mean, like taking driving lessons from someone who has never driven? I gottcha........


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

berettabone said:


> " but have little experience with handguns" No offense, but you're teaching your children about handguns, and YOU have little experience? Maybe, you ought to GET a little experience first, yourself, before trying to teach...you know what they say..." Those that can, do, and those that can't, teach" No offense, just safety first......


When I said I have "little experience with hand guns", I meant that I have little experience buying them and have never owned one and have only fired other people's. My dad was a LEO for 30 years and is now training LEO in other countries for the UN. My Grandfather was a LEO for at least 40 years and also a gun smith. I live in Montana and have owned guns since I can remember as a kid. I have used just about every hunting rifle there is, and own several. I have a lot of experience with shotguns (both hunting and trap shooting) and have owned several. Suffice to say, I was brought up around just about every kind of legally owned gun and was taught very extensively on how to safely use and own them. I just have never owned a pistol of my own, and have only ever shot other people's (belonging to my Dad, Grandpa, friends etc.) Now I would like to teach my kids.

I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. You are right based on the info I had presented in my previous posts. I just thought I would let you know that I am not new to guns in general or firearm safety and am more than comfortable teaching my children or anyone else on how to safely operate and own guns.

I appreciate your concern. Trust me, my children's safety will always come first.

By the way, the expression you used, "Those that can, do, and those that can't, teach"...I have no idea what point you were trying to make with it. You are essentially saying that firearm instructors are people who "can't", yet are telling me to go to them for instruction. That expression is stupid to begin with, but it's designed for a completely different application meant to insult teachers.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

NCarrell40 said:


> ...By the way, the expression you used, "Those that can, do, and those that can't, teach"...That expression is stupid to begin with, but it's designed for a completely different application meant to insult teachers.


Thank you!
That needed to be said.


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## ZachRabbit (Jan 21, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Any full-size, all-steel handgun in 9mm or .45 ACP would be appropriate for a 13-year-old, assuming access to very-high-quality, professional instruction.
> 
> However, your best bet would more likely be a Ruger .22 rimfire semi-auto. If you can find a clean, gently-used one, it would also be comparatively inexpensive.
> The only bad thing about them is that they are extremely difficult to take apart. But the good part is that, using modern, decent-quality ammunition, you do not have to take it apart for cleaning, at least not very often.
> ...


i agree with this man. haha.
i may not know much about handguns myself, but if i had sons this age i would probably start them either both off with a .22 (cheap to shoot, and you don't have to buy two different calibers) or maybe the 13 year old with a 9mm.
Ruger would be a good brand imo, as mentioned above.
probably less likely to be afraid of a 9mm.....i've heard .45's and i personally think it depends on his fear factor.... if he's a jumpy kid i probably wouldn't start him out with that....but if he's been around shotguns and rifles... he may be used to a bigger "bang!".

if it were me personally (again coming from a guy who doesn't know a lot about handguns, but this is my opinion, and what would feel right in my mind) i would start the 9yr old out with some sort of sub-compact .22 or small .22 revolver like you were saying, that he could hold onto well, and for the 13yr old, a 9mm like a Ruger SR9c....something he could probably find a better grip on as well, but later it would be a great gun that he would probably save most of or his entire life.

from what i've shot so far, which haven't been many, but enough to realize (at least for me so far) if you don't have a good grip on a gun, you don't tend to have as much control, and you don't really shoot a very tight pattern, which translates into you seeing the not-so-great shooting and thinking you aren't doing well.....slow progress = boredom/loss of interest in kids, at least from what i've noticed, and i used to help out with kids' church camp for a few years in a row.

so that is my opinion on this.... experts feel free to correct me, as i'm a newbie... but this is what feels right in my mind at the moment. haha.

ADDED: also, personally, and this is just my opinion, but i wouldn't go super cheap on these pistols. i mean, if it were me, it'd be one of those things, where if i was getting my sons their first firearms, i'd want them to LOVE them and keep them for all or most of their lives. i'm not saying go out and spend a fortune... but something like Ruger is pretty decent... the SR9c isn't really exactly cheap in price, but well worth the money, imo.

to me, it's like buying a guitar..... i could buy one of those electric guitar "starter" packs with and amp and everything and a cheapo guitar....or i could just splurge and get a quality piece right out of the gate, with something like a Gibson. always gonna sound great, always going to feel like quality....something you can feel confident with.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

I didn't mean to dis teachers, especially since my wife is a teacher, and I have to live with her.......point being, there are a lot of people teaching things out there, who do not have the proper training......it was just a concern for your children, and nothing more....some people are more sensitive than others...the expression came out of that fact...there are yoga instructors, who aren't trained in yoga, but are teaching anyway, there are fitness instructors, who know nothing about fitness, and just want the cash...here in Wisconsin, there has been a rush of instructors teaching CCW classes, and some seem to be a bit on the shady side........so, lighten up.....


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## Reddog1 (Oct 26, 2011)

Learn all the proper shooting techniques with a good .22 cal pistol or revolver before buying a larger caliber. Just a note here but it seems like many of the replys to this thread are implying that a .22 is somehow more safe than a larger caliber handgun. Teach you kids, first, that ANY handgun can kill you just as dead as any other. The first thing my dad taught me was that "every firearm should be handled as if it were loaded" and it is NEVER pointed at another person ..... I believe every kid should be exposed to a variety of firearms early. If they are old enough and responsible enough to handle a .22 handgun they are old enough to shoot a 9mm.


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

berettabone said:


> ........so, lighten up.....


I think I'm sufficiently light. I thanked you for your concern, agreed with that concern given the previous info I had posted, and assured you that safety is first. I just thought I'd let you know you were using that expression wrong.



Reddog1 said:


> Teach you kids, first, that ANY handgun can kill you just as dead as any other.


I completely agree with this. The first thing I told my kids was that the .22 caliber round is responsible for more deaths in the US than any other. I have no idea if that fact is true or not, but I read it somewhere and figured it would serve to communicate the amount of respect they needed to treat guns with, .22 or otherwise.

The second thing I taught them was to safety check any gun they picked up or someone handed them, even if I was the one handing it to them and they watched me safety check it one second earlier. Then, when you're absolutely sure it's not loaded, still treat it as if it is. Obviously when a gun is not loaded it's no more dangerous than a hammer, but having good habits at all times, loaded or not, is the biggest deterrent to an accident happening.

The third thing I made them do is to practice picking up the gun without putting their finger inside the trigger guard. This is a tough habit to break/form. It seems everyone has the natural insinct to rest their finger on the trigger every time they pick up a gun. To help them develop the good habit of not doing this, we played a bunch of laser tag as I monitered whether or not their finger stayed outside the trigger guard until they were ready to shoot at a target. I also have taken to getting their dart guns and laying them around the house. When they come in the room I ask them to put the guns away, and check to see if they are picking it up safely or not.

Anyway, there's a lot more to gun safety than how you act when you are shooting. To me, it's about developing safe habits that eventually come as second nature. That only happens through repetition, but their are safe ways to do that repetition.


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## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

Glad you're out shooting. I'm getting back into it after 20 some years busy with other aspects of life and got my son a BB gun this past summer and and starting with the safety training and such there. (he just turned 11)



NCarrell40 said:


> When I said I have "little experience with hand guns", I meant that I have little experience buying them and have never owned one and have only fired other people's. My dad was a LEO for 30 years and is now training LEO in other countries for the UN. My Grandfather was a LEO for at least 40 years and also a gun smith.


I find this humourous in a way (not to pick on you, it just struck me as funny as I've seen others say similar things in many other forums on different subjects) - my dad was a boilermaker and welder and taught welding. I spent a number of saturdays at work with him, watching him weld at home and on side jobs. That does not mean I can weld. Means I know more about welding than my wife perhaps, but I certainly can't teach it any better than she could. Her mother's a great cook...she's barely able to make sloppy joes. My son has been riding in cars all his life - but can't drive. Point being this type of 'experience' or 'education' means nothing, absolutely nothing, in any field.


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

prof_fate said:


> Glad you're out shooting. I'm getting back into it after 20 some years busy with other aspects of life and got my son a BB gun this past summer and and starting with the safety training and such there. (he just turned 11)
> 
> I find this humourous in a way (not to pick on you, it just struck me as funny as I've seen others say similar things in many other forums on different subjects) - my dad was a boilermaker and welder and taught welding. I spent a number of saturdays at work with him, watching him weld at home and on side jobs. That does not mean I can weld. Means I know more about welding than my wife perhaps, but I certainly can't teach it any better than she could. Her mother's a great cook...she's barely able to make sloppy joes. My son has been riding in cars all his life - but can't drive. Point being this type of 'experience' or 'education' means nothing, absolutely nothing, in any field.


Your analogies are off. Watching someone weld is not the same as learning to weld. Riding in a car is not the same as learning to drive. Watching someone shoot is not the same as being taught proper gun safety habits, mechanics and good shooting technique. Once you learn any skill you should be able to teach it to someone else. Observing somebody perform a skill is not the same as learning the skill. If your dad would have taught you to weld, you would know how to weld. If you knew how to weld, you could teach someone else to weld.

The point about my dad and grandpa, as I already stated in another post, is that I was trained by very competent instructors. Not that I learned gun safety through osmosis by simply being around them.


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## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry if I didn't read it the way you intended it.

It came across to me like this" I grew up with guys with guns so that means i'm an expert" - you never mentioned they trained you, taught you, spent time at the range with you. My take it would be more like "Son, this is a gun. It's dangerous. I need it for work. Stay away from it" (based on what I was told when young by relatives with guns in the house, based on my wife's instructions to our kids, etc).

In today's society way way way too many folks are under the impression they can do anything with no knowledge training or experience at all. SNL did a skit about this very thing in a recent episode Saturday Night Live - You Can Do Anything - Video - http://www.nbc.com

Having spent the past 30 years in car/motorcycle repair and now photography trust me, I run into TONS of folks that think they know everythihng just because they grew up around it or it looks easy when observing an expert do it.

I've also learned over the years that an strong reaction to a statement means it hits close to home. You reacted very strongly to my statement. So that to me says there's a lot of truth in it. Sorry, but my perception is my reality.


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

prof_fate said:


> Sorry if I didn't read it the way you intended it.
> 
> It came across to me like this" I grew up with guys with guns so that means i'm an expert" - you never mentioned they trained you, taught you, spent time at the range with you.


Here's what I wrote in that post, with the pertinent words bolded:



NCarrell40 said:


> I was brought up around just about every kind of legally owned gun *and was taught very extensively on how to safely use and own them.*


You can have whatever opinion you would like to have. I'm not sure what I wrote that you interpreted as a 'strong reaction', but it doesn't really matter. This has gotten a bit off topic. Perhaps I could ask another question to get it back on topic.

I want to get some good steel plinking targets for .22 caliber. I've done a bit of research and I bought a little one the other day locally for $30 that has three targets (small, medium and large) hanging from a horizontal bar. It's been fun but am looking for more. Does anyone have any online suggestions of good deals on those? I want to get a dueling tree at some point when we add our second hand gun to our collection, but that will be a month or two.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

Try browsing Sportsman's Guide - Discount Hunting Gear, Discount Hunting Boots, Discount Shoes, Discount Ammunition, Discount Ammo, Discount Boots, Military Surplus, Outdoor Gear at The Sportsman's Guide


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## sgms (Jun 2, 2010)

Outstanding day from the sounds of it. Bet there will be a lot more memories made with that pistol, keep them safe and have fun.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Actually, my experience has been that the very best learning occurs when you are teaching someone else.
> It focusses your attention on the details, and makes you "get it right the first time."


I was a portrait photographer for many years, but it was not until I taught photography (adult education) that I formalized and verbalized many of the things that I did intuitively. This reinforces the knowledge. So I agree that teaching makes you better at what you do. I don't know if the "get it right the first time" is the reason though.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

"_It focusses your attention on the details_," is the reason.


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## NCarrell40 (Jan 14, 2012)

I just thought I would add to this thread an update on the gun I purchased in case anyone might be considering it, the Colt 1911 .22LR (apparently made by Umarex, and Walther is in the mix somewhere as well).

So far, we have put about 2,000 rounds through it. The first day, we had two failure to ejects, using cheapo Federal American Eagle ammo that was pretty old. The gun has yet to have a single issue (Failure to Eject, Failure to Load, Stove Pipe, misfire etc.) using CCI Minimags or the Federal 40gr HV that come in packs of 100. The Federal Bulk pack (I think it's 36 or 38 grain) has had 2 misfires out of 525 rounds and one stove pipe. 

Overall it's performed admirably. Though I haven't shot it from a bench rest to see what kind of groups it can throw out, I can say that I can hit what I'm aiming at pretty consistently. From my little plinking target at 15 yds to pop cans at 30-40 yards to paper plates at 50-75 yards. We've been having a blast and my boys are getting quite good themselves.

I would recommend this gun to anyone looking for a fun .22LR pistol. It's great.


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## robertcseg (Jan 29, 2012)

I have read with interest the replies to the question of what to get to introduce himself and his sons to shooting. Unless I may have missed it not one person mentioned revolvers. Older S&W revolvers in excellent condition can be purchased in the 300-400 range. The old guns are heavy enough to shoot 38spl comfortably assuming that is the cal gun was made for They are very accurate. I have never heard a revolver complain of a FTF, FTE a stovepipe or clearing a malfunction.


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