# laser- good or bad?



## oldguy (Apr 1, 2010)

When I bought my Walther PPK/S I got it with CTC laser grips. I liked the set up so much I got the CTC laser guard for my LCP. I like it also. I've heard a lot of arguments for and against using lasers, but I can't find much against it in actual use. Most of the arguments against are along the lines of- focus on basic skills and you won't need a crutch- or, don't let it become a crutch. I guess the not letting it become a crutch is good advice, everyone should maintain basic shooting skills. And, if you are young, with high acuity in vision, fast reflexes and great hand-eye coordination, perhaps focusing exclusively on mechanical skills is okay. But for older guys and gals, I think the laser is a great way to go. A couple of points:
- I've been under fire, up close (maybe 50') and personal, and remember what happened. Let's just say I wasn't worried about a sight picture. In fact, sight picturer didn't even enter my mind even though I had been trained for it. I'm not sure I can even remember what entered my mind except "Oh ----".The instinctive movements developed in training disappeared in the face of self preservation. Now this is just speculation, but I suspect if I had a bright red or green dot, on the target to focus on, and had trained my brain to put that spot on target, and be the key for firing, I might have maintained a higher level of control. That bright spot just holds your attention.
- As you get older, things get weaker, especiall visual acuity. Picking up the sights quickly is all about practice and acuity. It takes both. Directing the bright red dot, and in low light the bright red line, is a skill itself and must be preacticed, but for older eyes, a skill that can be developed to a much finer degree than sight acquisition. 
- Again speculation, I think the big advantage is first shot on target and fats. Any thoughts?


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## johnr (Jun 13, 2008)

On my recent trip to the range, I noticed someone using a laser to hit the target at 7 yards. Their initial point was dead center, but as they squeezed the trigger, the dot became a circle about 3-4". With full arm "modified weaver" stance, their control was not steady! I thought it was curious as this is similar to what I have witnessed in other shooters. I mentuoned to one of the range owners and his comment was they were doing it all wrong. His explaination made sense. By holding the gun with the elbows tight to the waist, you get a more stable grip, and a more protected stance. Sighting down the barrell to aim the dot was not necessary! The lazer could be pointed, much easier and more accurately, with a beter chance of hitting what you are aiming at. When he explained this to the shooter, their accuracy improved and the wobble almost disapeared

YMMV
J


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

I have a CT laser on my HD gun. Lasers are great in low light situations, not that good in daylight.


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## oldguy (Apr 1, 2010)

*thanks JohnR*

Good point. The elbows tight to the waist works great. Sort of a braced isosceles. point well taken. The only time I sight with the laser is too zero it in initially. I like to adjust until the dot is on top of the front sight with a good sight picture. Do a three round test and then adjust laser elevation and windage so that the hit is where the dot is. You make another good point also. Even for those who want to fire exclusively without the laser, using one as a training tool is great. I didn't realize just how much the point of impact moved when I squeezed the trigger until I saw what happened to the dot as I was doing it. I spent some time empty gun in my living room working on my grip and pull to overcome the drift. Great thing was, I didn't have to shoot up a few boxes of ammo to do it.


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## Hiram25 (Feb 22, 2010)

I have a LaserMax on my SA XD40 SC and love it. The weapon shoots dead on with the sights, but it's nice to have the laser as an added feature. At night it's outstanding.:smt1099


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

I'd be one that says "Lasers don't reduce the need for raw skill". Why? Because in over 17 years of shooting and training (been shooting for longer, but really only got serious in the last 17 or so), I've never run across someone using a laser that isn't _chasing the beam_. They're either looking over the gun and wasting precious time trying to find the damn dot or they believe that it supplants skill because "you just have to put the dot on the target".

I don't believe that a laser, as I've seen them used, is in any way faster than good, repetitious, meaningful practice. Watching someone with a laser try to put more than one round on target in rapid succession is down right hilarious. The beam jumps all over the place because they're more focused on the laser than managing recoil.

Now, if you're using it in conjunction with solid shooting skill, more power to you. But please don't ever think like some of the people I've seen use them... it does not make hitting the target easier, it just distracts people from the _more_ meaningful aspects of shooting well.


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## oldguy (Apr 1, 2010)

*Good points Zhurdan*

I would be the last to recommend replacing solid skill development with a laser. learn to shoot first and learn well. But learning to shoot well with a laser takes skill development also. It's not just a matter of buying the grips putting it in you carry holster, and relaxing. Like any new skill it takes practice on the range and various distances. But you can develop the skill and get very accurate, especially on rapid fire. And with weakening acuity that makes it hard to pick up the sights, especially in low light, I find the laser valuable. Of course, I've been shooting for fifty years and had the skill before I got the lasers. So your advice stands. If you are new to guns, learn to shoot properly and maintain that skill. Lasers can supplement your skills, but nothing can replace them.


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