# pocket .380



## kevinsmith1 (Oct 3, 2008)

Help me decide on a pocket pistol. pros, cons, and opinions. thanks


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

Already have LCP. Why? Ruger brand loyalty mostly. Like and trust their handguns. Wouldn't buy ANY Taurus because I consider them "bush league" in general. Kel-Tec's reputation is OK but I prefer Ruger's rep as well as the look of the LCP over the P3AT... Liking my LCP a lot!


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I would not spend $100 for a new P3AT. I wouldnt spend $50 for one. Get anything else. 

RCG


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

We now have both the LCP & the 3AT. I got my 3AT before Ruger came out with LCP. They both shoot the same for me. The LCP is a little nicer looking, but there is no big difference in them. :smt033


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## fudo (Nov 11, 2009)

I have the LCP, It is a better quality version of the Kel-Tec


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

Diamondback 380


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## flyinpolack (Dec 16, 2009)

ruger makes a great pistol!


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

I voted LCP. I have not owned a P3AT but did own a PF9 that functioned very well. Just wasn't for me. The LCP is clearly an unabashed copy of the P3AT which begs to question why have the copy when one can have the original? In this case, and in my opinion, the LCP seems to be a little more refined in the fit and finish department. Other factors that swayed me where the trigger is pretty darned good and you can lock the slide to the rear. If I already had a proven P3AT I wouldn't sell it to get a LCP. But starting out fresh like I did and based on my now limited but positive experience with it I'd recommend it for consideration. I am not a Taurus basher (never had one) but based on their spotty reputation I can't recommend them especially with the LCP and P3AT in the mix. Much better gamble. I paid $319 for my LCP and believe the P3AT's run about the same. Worth every penny.


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## onalandline (Jan 8, 2010)

kevinsmith1 said:


> Help me decide on a pocket pistol. pros, cons, and opinions. thanks


I'm happy with my Ruger LCP. I went with it over the others based on reviews.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I have an LCP, and it works OK. No Taurus for me, thanks. The Keltec, I might give a try...if I wanted another mouse gun.


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## gschnarr (Jan 26, 2009)

P3AT. It is the original with a longer history and cheaper. Works first time every time.


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## samurai (Jul 8, 2010)

Very happy with the LCP with a CT laser. Just seemed better made than the Keltec and I've been "burned" by Taurus' CS before.


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## PX (May 14, 2006)

JMOfartO:

I voted with my billfold for the Ruger LCP (3 times)...

All three have been absolutely reliable and more than self defense accurate right out of the box... I added a Crimson Trace laser to my daily carry LCP (my wife has one with the engraved slide, and the third was purchased simply because i was so pleased with the ones my wife and myself have).

I have owned two Keltecs in the past (P32/P11), and both were fine. 

I just like Rugers because I've owned a Ruger of one type or another for half a century, and (knock on wood), have yet to have a bad one.

I don't care for Tauri.. The reputation for a fantastic lifetime warranty doesn't mean too much when the general reputation of the Taurus customer/warranty repair service sucks.

But, to each his own.

Best Wishes,

Jesse


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## R.Ph. 380 (Jul 24, 2010)

I've never had a failure with my P3AT and think you could use the 100.00 or so difference between it and the *L*ittle *C*opy *P*istol to buy ammo and practice.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## WINGFAN (Mar 7, 2010)

*which 380?*

I am giving the lcp to my daughter who is waiting on her ccw. I purchased a p238 & love it. Carl pointed me in that direction best advise for best gun, yea it cost more but is it sweet. You can see other opinions on gundirectory.com Happy shooting and stay safe


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## DogRanger (Apr 12, 2008)

my LCP works all the time...


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

FYI, here's a couple pics of my LCP w/ProMag 10-rd. extended mag:


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

What about the new S & W Bodyguard in .380.

A manufacturer with a good reputation, and a small and light weapon. 

I'm not sure how easy these tiny weapons are to shoot well. I would probably choose the one that fit the hand best. The lighter the weapon the greater the percieved re-coil. I'd go with something small and heavy that fit my hands well.


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## PX (May 14, 2006)

Packard said:


> What about the new S & W Bodyguard in .380.
> A manufacturer with a good reputation, and a small and light weapon.


JMOfartO:

As I've mentioned before I'm a big Smith fan (2 snubby's/6 pistols), but over the years I've learned the hard way to NEVER buy a first run, or early series ANYTHING..

The "anything" includes pistols.

If you don't mind being a "beta-tester" for the manufacturer then buy away, but chances are excellent there WILL be unfound "bugs" in whatever it is that will necessitate a recall at the very least, and could malfunction at the worst time as Mr. Murphy and his "law" is alive and well in 2010..

A malfunction at the "worst time" is even more critical in a firearm you might be using for self defense.

IF I were in the market for "another" mousegun, I'd certainly give the little Smith a consideration, but from learning the hard way in decades past I'd take a pass until a few thousand, pretty much bug-free, had been sold and found dependable.

No offense to anyone, just repeating what I've tried to teach my Son on such matters.

Best Wishes,

Jesse


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

PX said:


> JMOfartO:
> 
> As I've mentioned before I'm a big Smith fan (2 snubby's/6 pistols), but over the years I've learned the hard way to NEVER buy a first run, or early series ANYTHING..
> 
> ...


All right. I will agree with that. Do you think Glock has been around long enough for me to get one?


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## PX (May 14, 2006)

Packard said:


> All right. I will agree with that. Do you think Glock has been around long enough for me to get one?


Packard:

Of course..

Jesse


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## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

My vote was for the LCP because Kahr P380 was not on the list. Kahr is the best .380 IMO.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

How come Seacamp is not on the list? It is smaller than any of them; has a long track record; and I believe they are quite reliable.

It is available in .32 or .380 as I recall.

See this size comparison chart: http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

Also the Beretta (in .32 only).

Compare ballistics: http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Tuefelhunden said:


> I voted LCP. I have not owned a P3AT but did own a PF9 that functioned very well. Just wasn't for me. The LCP is clearly an unabashed copy of the P3AT which begs to question why have the copy when one can have the original? In this case, and in my opinion, the LCP seems to be a little more refined in the fit and finish department. Other factors that swayed me where the trigger is pretty darned good and you can lock the slide to the rear. If I already had a proven P3AT I wouldn't sell it to get a LCP. But starting out fresh like I did and based on my now limited but positive experience with it I'd recommend it for consideration. I am not a Taurus basher (never had one) but based on their spotty reputation I can't recommend them especially with the LCP and P3AT in the mix. Much better gamble. I paid $319 for my LCP and believe the P3AT's run about the same. Worth every penny.


I have heard many folks say the LCP is a "copy" or Little Copy Pistol. As cute as it is to refer to this and as fun as it is to say these things I will take a page from a friend of mine on another forum who is a bit of a gun eficianato.
He knows guns and is just anal enough to research completely before he gives an opinion. I will pass on what he has to say...

The evolution of firearms is similar in ways obvious to many, to the evolution of life. There are certain effective traits that show up repeatedly in convergent evolution, using the parts and structures available. Occasionally, a new trait is developed, but overall, form and function dictate change and design. Simple really

I have looked at the Kel-tec and LCP drawings, and though they are similar, there are improvements made to the Ruger that give it new traits within the overall structure of the firearm design. There are no matter what one may wish to believe.

In my opinion, the design is an improvement on the Kel-tec. It is also a better-made firearm; of higher quality. That has been the remark of every reviewer and would be very hard to rationally dispute.

Thus, calling the LCP a "copy" of the Kel-tec is simplistic, and does not take into account the obvious differences in the two firearms, in relation to the general structure of that genre.

I specifically would not want the Kel-tec, after examining one, contrary to popular opinion, looks is not the main consideration. Well, that's evolution for you.


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## sig225 (Aug 30, 2010)

LCP .... I think the above poll says it all ...... :smt023
(my wife has one)


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Recoilguy I call it like I see it. Is it an exact copy? Granted it is not persay. But by and large Ruger obviously took what they liked and ditched (improved) what they didn't. No doubt a patent ran out. Happens every day. The result is, I agree a more refined and improved take on the original. I have no objections. Mine is a fantastic 380. But it is what it is. A very well done copy.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

In a manner of speaking they are all copies of the Seecamp. Double action, 6 +1, .380, sub-compact.

How come the Seecamp is out of favor? And the Beretta. I had the Beretta years ago and the tip up barrel makes cleaning a breeze (and these guns tend to be used less, and accumulate more lint, etc., than other guns).

From my experience with the Beretta, the small guns are not as much fun to shoot and get shot far less.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I've had a Keltec P32, and hated it because of the trigger - even though it ran 100%. I no longer have it.

I'm not really into 380 - but if I were you, I'd look at the Kahr 380 first and formost.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

sig225 said:


> LCP .... I think the above poll says it all ...... :smt023
> (my wife has one)


I think that price and availablity play into this result. And why was the list so short? There are many other weapons that fit into that catagory that should have been included in the poll.

If the poll question read: If price and availability were not a factor what weapon would you choose amongst the .380 sub-compact automatics.


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## Tx944 (Sep 3, 2010)

Packard said:


> How come Seacamp is not on the list? It is smaller than any of them; has a long track record; and I believe they are quite reliable.
> 
> It is available in .32 or .380 as I recall.
> 
> ...


Hi, 
For a 380 , I didn't go with either one on the list.
I gathered all the Gun-Tests-reviews for all the 380's along with the buyers guide and I found 
that the CZ-USA CZ -83 with the all steel frame, along with it's hammer firing wins.
Hands down it is more reliable been shot and reviewed more times then the others.
It isn't another striker fired mini, It's small reliable and did I mention , it's all -steel.
The only plastic on it is the grips, It holds 12+1 so you have capacity.
It is rated a A+ for reliability, value and accuracy.
It comes with a 3.8" barrel , longer sight plane , equals more accurate shooting.
AT 15 yards it shoots all twelve in the 9 ring for CHL qualifying.
I've shot 500 rounds through it now without a glitch
and it only weighs 28 oz.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Tx944 said:


> Hi,
> For a 380 , I didn't go with either one on the list.
> I gathered all the Gun-Tests-reviews for all the 380's along with the buyers guide and I found
> that the CZ-USA CZ -83 with the all steel frame, along with it's hammer firing wins.
> ...


This is as big and heavy as my old PPKs in stainless steel. At 6.8" long and 5" high a bit too long and at 28 oz. too heavy for a pocket pistol. My PPKs in an inside the waistband holster and a tee-shirt not tucked in would conceal well. But it would not make a pocket pistol. Too big and too heavy.

If I wanted to go that big and heavy I would go back to the PPKs (in .380, not .320). It is a proven design and very reliable too.


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## MikePapa1 (Sep 7, 2010)

I prefer the Sig 238. Small, accurate, reliable. I carry it in a Don Hume pocket holster.


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## proscene (May 21, 2010)

*None of the three*

I've had the pleasure of firing these weapons, They will all do nicely. However as far as 380's go I prefer the Sig P238 for pocket carry, it's trigger is sweet.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Since the .380 (no matter which you choose) will take possession of one of your pockets, might not a Kel-tec 9mm (single stack) conceal just as well? It is just .88" thick; about as thick as most .380s. It is taller and longer by a bit, but would still fit in my pocket.

So my question is, does the .380 make sense in light of the Kel-tec or does the 9mm make more sense?


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## Virg (Sep 25, 2010)

I picked the LCP since it's the one I own and I did pick it over the other two when I purchased it. The reasons were this. My past experience with Ruger and Ruger's reputation for building quality firearms and their super service is there if needed. My second choice would be the Taurus. I've own several Taurus firearms and they work quite well. But I have heard bad stories about their service dept. Third I would pick the P3AT. It's a good gun and the one that started this whole polymer pocket rocket frenzy!


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

The LCP.Reliable.Small.Light.Thin.Plenty of rounds to do plenty of
damage.Comfort and easy concealment.Could,nt ask for more.


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## Lateck (Jul 23, 2010)

I voted LCP.
I looked at the other two also and found Ruger's quality of build to be better IMHO.

Lateck,


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## bmbroker (Mar 7, 2010)

*Bersa 380*

This is a recommendation on what not to get. About a year ago my brother took my daughter shopping for a handgun and they wound up with a Bersa in the 380. I have just given her boyfriend the go ahead to go find something else and trade the Bersa in. The boyfriend (has CHL, owns a number of guns and shoots frequently) says it jams and fails to eject constantly. He says he can't find ammo it likes and he has tried all kinds. I recommended that she look into something in a 9M because of price and availability of ammo. I am also looking for a 9 for myself. I recently purchased a Taurus 1911 45. It is a sweet shooter but a little big for carry (winter shouldn't be a problem).


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

One last try:Try the CCI Blazer 95 gr. TMJ.This load never jammed on my Bersa.
Just sayin.


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## ctnv (Nov 5, 2010)

Salesperson at Cabella's told me the Ruger, 380 had problems and would advise me not to purchase. I have on line comparison of almost all 380 pistols and would probably go with the taurus ss. I also have a Springfiield xd 40 and a s&w 38 + p spec revolver.


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

ctnv said:


> Salesperson at Cabella's told me the Ruger, 380 had problems and would advise me not to purchase. I have on line comparison of almost all 380 pistols and would probably go with the taurus ss...


Whatever... the Ruger LCP has sold over 500,000 in less than 3 yrs... What problems?... They're virtually problem-free... Salespeople will sometimes push a line that has a little higher profit margin but anyone advising against the LCP will be missing a veritable tidal wave of sales that hasn't quit yet.
And... What is a Taurus ss?... in .380... OK, I guess you're talking about the SLIM 708SS... Buying any Taurus is a gamble due to iffy production IMHO.


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

The first marketed Ruger LCP's had a recall.Claims were that they would
fire if dropped on a hard surface.The recalls were fixed immediately and 
Ruger then of course took that fault out of the equation.In my opinion the little Ruger LCP 
is quality,accuracy,dependability,and with the new tactical loads?Awesome carry gun.


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## Key West Gary (May 19, 2008)

I have the P3AT and love it. I have shot it side by side with a friend's LCP and they seemed pretty much one in the same. The December/January issue of Handgun Magazine tested the P3AT, LCP, Gaurdian and .380 Cobra side bt side and rated the P3AT the best. LCP was a very close second, then Guardian and they gave the Cobra very bad reviews. The Taurus wasn't out when I bought my P3AT and the LCP's were brand new & selling over $400 so I got the P3AT. I am very happy with it.


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## sincitizen (Sep 20, 2010)

all i can say is like ruger


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## ctnv (Nov 5, 2010)

*ctnv*

Was advised by sales person at Cabella's not to purchase the Ruger 380 due to some major problems with barrel and firing mechanism. I will go with the Taurus ss slide when I get back to NV. Cannot purchase in CT as resident of NV.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

ctnv said:


> Was advised by sales person at Cabella's not to purchase the Ruger 380 due to some major problems with barrel and firing mechanism. I will go with the Taurus ss slide when I get back to NV. Cannot purchase in CT as resident of NV.


There was a recall on the firing pin. That problem has been resolved. Only older weapons would be involved. If you are buying a new weapon you are OK (unless the inventory is very old). Ruger has posted the recall on-line. Google "Ruger .380 recall" to read the details.

My understanding (I don't own one) is that this is a solid weapon with good reliablity by an upstanding manufacturer. I would really question the salesman's motivation for making the statement.


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

Lemme see if I get this straight... You're going to choose a Taurus over a Ruger because you're concerned about reliability issues...?!??... (Lord... please give me patience and understanding...)...


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

my choice is not on your list
that would be the sig238


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

hideit said:


> my choice is not on your list
> that would be the sig238


Mine too. I think the long, heavy trigger pull on a tiny, light-weight handgun would make pricision shooting impossible. The Sig would be much easier to shoot in my imagination (I've not shot one), but I did have a Beretta .25 in single action only and I could routinely put the full magazine through at 25 feet in a group of 1-1/2".

The Beretta has a lighter recoil, but recoil only affects the time to follow up, and not the accuracy.


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## wdg710 (Feb 5, 2011)

*? Diamondback Firearms?*

Anyone consider the Diamondback Firearms .380? Some swear by it. Does anyone have any experience with one?


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

*Of those Listed ....*

...the Ruger. But you should consider slightly larger models that are much more controllable, afford greater # of rounds (13+1), and are still easily concealeable: Beretta 84-series, Browning BDA-380, Walther PK380 (7+1).


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## jessemachone (Jan 8, 2010)

I had a LCP. I should have fired it before buying it because I couldn't stand shooting it. I don't think I would have been happy with any other offerings either. I couldn't get a proper grip on that thing in order to shoot it reliably and ended up selling it. It was a cool little gun but I felt it was unsafe for me to carry as a self defense weapon as I would have to re grip after every shot. I also did not have very much fun shooting it at the range.

It was an impulse buy - my room mate had one and I thought it was the cat's a$$. I was wrong - lesson learned.

I'm only 6'1" but my palm is rather large and I am pretty sure that was the issue. 

(primary carry: glock 26 with a pierce pinky extension. - no plus two, just for pinky )


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I voted for Ruger LCP when this poll first came out .. because I carried mine almost daily in my front pocket when not wearing a gun on my hip.

Well this past week I bought the new LC9 (about 20% larger than the LCP and in 9mm).










I really like this gun. - IMHO Ruger has hit another home run.

I can and do carry it in my front jeans pocket (it fills the pocket full, but is comfortable , very comfortable in baggy cargo shorts).

I still use a DeSantis Nemesis Holster for it (only bigger).

It has good sights and I ran my 1st 100 rounds through it (all I've had time to put through it ) w/o a burp.

Better go look at one, you won't be sorry if you decide to buy one.

:smt1099


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

By the way I took it to the range again today and everyone put another 100 rounds through it.

I put 50 through it - then the guy beside me asked if I'd mind if he shot it.

Then at least 6 other guys had to shoot it.

One guy was an amazing shot with it. He pulled his first shot - focused and put the next seven in the 10 ring.

No one else did near that well .. certainly not me. :mrgreen:

This shows a comparison of the LC9 to the LCP, size-wise. For those interested

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ruger-lc9/


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I think, just for the pleasure of being called a heretic, I would suggest the Airlyte S & W 357 with the titanium cylinder. 

Shoots the more powerful .357 round (or .38 or .38 + P).

Weight: Empty @ 11.4 ounces.

Carry one speed-loader and you have 10 rounds. For civilian self-defense, in my opinion, enough.

(There is no "heretic" smiley :smt017)


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## cooper623 (Feb 11, 2011)

Of the three in your poll i would say that they ruger LCP is the way to go but i would also take a look at the sig 290. I have no experience with that gun in particular since it is really new and pocket guns arent really my favorite type out there since i have large hands but sig makes great stuff and I have always been happy with them. And, if youre willing to go a tiny bit bigger, look at the beretta px4 storm compact. It is really small but still feels like a normal size gun. Also, it has berettas great trigger pull in it. It might be too big for what youre looking for but its definitely worth taking a look at.


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## meanmachine1961 (May 31, 2009)

I own a LCP. Ruger has been a brand I have trusted for many years. Haven't had a bad one yet.


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## chazz (Apr 6, 2011)

I really like my Ruger LCP for a pocket gun. I had a Keltec in 9mm and disliked it. Traded it in a few days ago on a revolver for my wife.


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## Jeff45 (Feb 8, 2010)

wdg710 said:


> Anyone consider the Diamondback Firearms .380? Some swear by it. Does anyone have any experience with one?


I had a Diamondback 380 for a few months and it had failue to feed issues. The other thing I did not like is that the slide does not lock open after the last round. I ended up trading it for a Kahr P380 and have found this gun to be an accurate and reliable little pistol, except that Fiocchi 90g JHP ammo won't feed. No problems with any other ammo.


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## srommes (Apr 11, 2011)

If you can swing it financially, the Sig P238 is the way to go for a pocket .380. Just a quality gun and alot of fun to shoot. No more recoil than my Glock 17 either.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

cooper623 said:


> Of the three in your poll i would say that they ruger LCP is the way to go but i would also take a look at the sig 290. I have no experience with that gun in particular


I'd been waiting for a "Pocket 9mm". Figured the new Ruger LC9 would be "it".
On March 7th I drove 160 miles to buy one for $400, since none of the five LGS had one.
Fondled it, and the Kahr PM9. I came home with a SIG P290 Special Edition.

It's a bit longer, and a bit taller and the same width as the .380 polymer pocket pistols.
But, quite a bit heavier at 20 oz. It's the same size, but 3 oz. more than the Ruger LC9.

I'm pleased with it. The jump from .380 ACP to 9mm 6 + 1 is well worth it to me.
And the SIG felt better than either the Kahr or the Ruger. I paid dearly for "that feeling".
It works fine, and shoot well for such a "little guy". It had better for that price ! :mrgreen:

Long ago I learned to buy what I REALLY wanted in expensive items. Cuts down on buyer remorse.:smt1099
YMMV


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## adjohns3 (May 21, 2010)

kevinsmith1 said:


> Help me decide on a pocket pistol. pros, cons, and opinions. thanks


Are you looking for size as main issue or other issues?
LCP is usually the best for the $$...can always look at LCR or new LC-9 if you want to up the $$ and package

Good luck with your search...shoot safely!
:numbchuck:


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Are you going to actually carry it in your pocket or are you just looking for something small and easy to carry?

Going up slightly in size can make for an easier to shoot weapon.

A weapon like the Walther PPKS is reliable, accurate and easy to shoot (but not very cheap).

I've carried it inside the waistband and it conceals very well as it is fairly flat.

I've carried it on an ankle hoslter and it is at the upper limits weight-wise of what I would like to carry on the ankle. But if you are not a runner it is fine for walking.

I've carried it in a shoulder rig--but not so successfully. I've been a weight lifter most of my life and the wide lats make the weapon want to stray from the side of the body. I did much better with a high ride belt holster and the inside the waist band holster.

There are several other weapons in that same size and if you are not going to actually carry in the pocket any one of them would be easier to shoot. They offer a larger and more easily grabbed grip; a longer sight radius, and a bit more weight. The extra weight is an advantage for steadying the weapon during the long double action pull and also for helping absorb some of the energy of the recoil. (If I've used the wrong terms on the physics of energy someone will correct me.)


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## kevinsmith1 (Oct 3, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the info and sorry to reply so late. I went with the lcp and really like it. great for the pocket.


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## carterrob (May 11, 2011)

I may be the only one who talks up the Taurus TCP, but I walked into the store to by a Ruger LCP and walked out with the Taurus. Now, I must admit I've always been a Ruger fan ever since I bought a Single Six .22 20+ years ago. Taurus has a reputation of selling low-price/low-quality firearms but they have inproved their reputation lately.
The TCP is roughly the same size and shape of the LCP and there has been some talk of FTE and FTC issues but I've not had any. It came with two 6+1 mags and a very nice Bulldog Cellphone/PDA type case. I've only fired 100 rounds through mine, but haven't had a single problem. It's got a good trigger pull and is surprisingly accurate for such a small gun. I carry it in a High-Noon inside the waistband holster and find it a great gun to carry. My primary sidearm is a Sig P220 Carry model, and I bought this TCP as a BUG and to carry when the weight of the Sig Hand Cannon isn't practical. Once I can get a 8+1 mag for my TCP I'll be a completely happy camper.
Your thoughts?


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

The Taurus seems like a nicely engineered weapon. They have a dismal reputation for quality control and that has been their undoing. If you get a good example then I think it is probably a good weapon.

But as an example of the QC issues, a magazine reviewer was reviewing one of the Taurus handguns and he wanted to adjust the rear sights. But the Allen wrench that was provided with the weapon for that purpose did not fit the Allen screw.

Another reviewer found that he could not adjust the sights adequately because the front sight had not been installed in the center of the slide--it was off to one side.

For several years Mercedes cars had a rather poor quality control reputation. The components and engineering were first rate, but they neglected to tighten the bolts on the alternator or they left off a couple of screws for the firewall, etc. Still a good car but a lot of small fixes had to be made.

Assuming that the engineers specified the right materials for the components I would expect that any problems with a Taurus can be resolved. I've admired the 740 Slim but the QC issues have kept me from considering it.

The Taurus looks and specs out to be a very nice weapon. But there are other very nice weapons out there that don't have the QC baggage that Taurus has and those options are the ones that I would take if I were in the market for a sub-service caliber weapon.


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## buckler (May 24, 2011)

consider the Keltec 9mm instead. It easily has over 2x the power of the 380, 9mm ammo ismore readily available and cheaper, too. Look at the CorBon 100 gr PowRball rds, 1300 fps even in the 3" barrel, which means 380 ft lbs, and real expansion of the jhp.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

buckler said:


> consider the Keltec 9mm instead. It easily has over 2x the power of the 380, 9mm ammo ismore readily available and cheaper, too. Look at the CorBon 100 gr PowRball rds, 1300 fps even in the 3" barrel, which means 380 ft lbs, and real expansion of the jhp.


 Yes, especially the single stack version (PF9) which is lighter and slimmer than the double stack version.


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## ozzy (Apr 16, 2011)

BG380, I just love that BUG!


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

You left off one of the TOP-RATED .380 pocket pistols...and one of the best selling ones as well.

THE SMITH AND WESSON BODYGUARD .380.
Built-in Laser,
Durable,
Reliable,
Can Dryfire without cocking,
Accurate,
Easy to shoot,
Good company, good support,
easy to clean. 

How did you mss this one?


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

cclaxton said:


> You left off one of the TOP-RATED .380 pocket pistols...and one of the best selling ones as well.
> 
> THE SMITH AND WESSON BODYGUARD .380.
> Built-in Laser,
> ...


I suggested this early in the thread but it was pooh-poohed for being too new and unproven.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Packard said:


> I suggested this early in the thread but it was pooh-poohed for being too new and unproven.


and they were right to pooh pooh you and still support him.... your statement is too new AND unproven while his is top rated and reliable.... life is NOT fair at all


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## sonja (Sep 16, 2011)

Having owned both a P3AT and a Ruger LCP -- I much prefer the Sig 238 I bought after selling both those pistols. They both worked. Neither was any fun to shoot. I HATED the trigger pull on both. 238, far nicer to shoot, decent to practice with, much more accurate (for me). Again, YMMV, but the little Sig is my choice.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> and they were right to pooh pooh you and still support him.... your statement is too new AND unproven while his is top rated and reliable.... life is NOT fair at all


Based on the company producing the weapon I would feel fine buying an early version of a Smith & Wesson.

I would not feel the same way for a Kimber or a Kel-Tec. But certain manufacturers take the time to debug their weapons before bringing them to market. Beretta has done a good job; Sig, CZ, FN and others too.

Ruger is a new-product-driven company. They are under constant pressure to create new weapons. I think that atmosphere works against adequate testing. So I would put Ruger somewhere between best and the worst. Mostly they are good; some times they have issues. For instance I would wait until their .45s are out for a year before I would buy one.

Ruger, unlike other manufacturers, is very aggressive about incorporating new manufacturing processes. They were early adopters of investment casting, and now an early adopter of MIM. The tendency is to try the new technology for more and more demanding components as it saves money in production. But the risk is that one or more of those components cannot satisfactorily be produced by these new methods. The only way to tell is to wait and see.


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

I have owned my S&W Bodyguard .380 for about a year now. The only problem I had was associated with the laser assembly. (It will shoot without it, of course.) S&W took care of the problem at no cost to me...although it took a few weeks because they were backordered on the lasers. They say the new lasers are an improved design. Basically the metal tabs that connect the battery were breaking off. 

It is a very narrow gun and love that aspect because I can easily do pocket carry. It is fairly accurate within 7 yards. My only complaint is that if I shoot it a lot it will start to cause pain at the web area between thumb and trigger finger. (That may just be my hand...doesn't seem to bother my girlfriend.) I like the long, strong trigger pull...that is what you want for a pocket pistol to avoid accidental discharge. 

The only improvements I would make are: 
1) the sights have no white/color dots and I miss them. I plan to add flourescent orange dots to the sights;
2) Turning on the laser is not automatic when you grip the gun. You have to use a finger and press kinda hard to get the laser to light up. I don't count on the laser for self-defense anyway, so it is not a big deal;
3) An extended magazine would be good so you can hold more rounds and get a better grip. 

This is a backup gun and for those times when I can't carry my Kahr PM9, which is my favorite carry gun, and for easy concealment in the car, etc.

BTW, I found a neat trick to carry my extra magazine: I just put the extra mag next to the grip and put a rubber-band around them to hold it in place. You can shoot it with the mag in an emergency or rip it off and put it in your pocket. 

I have shot the Ruger LCP and it is a fine gun as well and I hear great reviews from people who own them. 
I don't care for the SIG 238 because it is SA Only, and I don't like the limitations associated with SA: Must use safety, cannot dry fire easily, heavier weight, etc. They are good looking, though and have a lot of nice treatments and colors. For fullsized 1911 operators it makes a lot of sense to pick a mini-1911 like the SIG.

CC


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

cclaxton said:


> ...My only complaint is that if I shoot it a lot it will start to cause pain at the web area between thumb and trigger finger. (That may just be my hand...doesn't seem to bother my girlfriend.)...CC


I had the same problem with my S & W 29. If you have a prominent bone there (I do) then you can get a nasty bone bruise that can take months to heal.

I resolved this problem by buying a pair of weight lifters gloves. These are fingerless gloves and are padded in exactly the right spot for this. They cost between $10.00 and $30.00, depending upon the model. I usually spend about $12.00 to $15.00.

Buy them so that they are snug. And always take a few shots without the gloves so you can be sure of the feel. But it never seems to affect the point of aim in any way and it does save the hands. If you pinch the finger tips then this will not be the answer. They seem to last until I lose them (and I guess I leave them at the range because at least once a year one goes missing).


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## JerryMac (Dec 4, 2011)

I chose the kel tec because that is what stays in my pocet, it has never had a hiccup, and has never failed to go boom when i pull the trigger, it is a ugly little sucker, but did not buy it for looks, i may have bought one of the others had they been available, but now that i have what i have and am happy with it, thats what i have.... did i mention how accurate the little sicker is....VERY

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

The L.A. Police recently approved both the Ruger and the S & W .380s for back up use by their officers. I think the sights on the S & W are better plus it comes with laser sights. But it is heavier.

If I were buying a .380 I would probably go for the S & W.

Here is the article: http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2011/04/20/lapd-adopts-ruger-sw-380-pistols/

Hornandy Critical Defense 90 grain was the only approved ammunition.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I can not believe that a police force has oked a gun with a working laser on it. I am going to have to read this article when I get a minute. The sight on almost any gun are better then on the LCP.

RCG


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## NukeEmTillTheyGlow (Sep 6, 2011)

I'll be the guy to say the S&W bodyguard .380


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> I can not believe that a police force has oked a gun with a working laser on it. I am going to have to read this article when I get a minute. The sight on almost any gun are better then on the LCP.
> 
> RCG


They specifically ordered the laser disabled.


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## ronmail65 (Jan 18, 2011)

I just got a Bersa Thunder 380. In the first 100 rounds, I had some last round in the mag jamming issues but after that it's been flawless. I've tried several different types of ammo - no issues. It's pretty accurate and I really like the trigger.

I handled, but didn't like the smaller guns (like the LCP and similar sized guns). My challenge is that I want a gun that will fit in my pocket, but still be large enough to get a good grip on. I tried the CZ83 -- it was very nice, but it was a little too heavy and pricey for me. I excluded the Sig 380s and the Walther PPK/S based on price.

I'm very happy with the Bersa.... but hindsight being 20/20 -- I probably should have gotten a Glock 26 and some magazine extensions. They're almost the same size as the Bersa, shoot a slightly larger caliber (9mm), are a more proven weapon, and the ammo (9mm) is less expensive and much easier to find.


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## 500Benz (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah .380s are nice but im a much bigger fan of 9mm.
9mm Versus 380 ACP For Self-Defense

For this reason alone, I'd go with the Glock26. They are easily concealable despite ppl claiming they are chunky.

If ur not down for 9, you wont be sorry with a Ruger LCP
Taurus is s#[email protected] compared to Ruger, I dont need to buy a s#$% gun to know a s#*^ gun.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

The thread was about pocket .380's not .380's as a caliber.......you can get a 26 in your pocket?
The 26 is a good gun and can conceal very nicely with a proper holster. It is pretty freaking big to be a pocket gun.
You don't need to buy a S#^* gun to know a S#^* gun, not owning one sure doesn't stop you from talking S#^* 
about guns you have not even owned. It lends credibility, never owning what you speak ill of, especially when you attach a link.. 
Keep up the google, you will know everything pretty soon.

RCG


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> The thread was about pocket .380's not .380's as a caliber.......you can get a 26 in your pocket?
> The 26 is a good gun and can conceal very nicely with a proper holster. It is pretty freaking big to be a pocket gun.
> You don't need to buy a S#^* gun to know a S#^* gun, not owning one sure doesn't stop you from talking S#^*
> about guns you have not even owned. It lends credibility, never owning what you speak ill of, especially when you attach a link..
> ...


I have a Glock 27 in my waistband right now. It is the exact size and weight as a Glock 26, but is in .40 caliber. Easy to conceal under a sweater or sweatshirt. A little printing with a tight tee-shirt, but a loose tee-shirt is fine. I wear it with an untucked camp shirt and it does not tell at all.

But it seems a good bit too heavy for pocket carry even though I wear cargo pants with pockets large enough for the weapon. I have a S & W PD in .357 that carries in the pocket well, and weighs about 1 pound loaded (12 ounces empty).

If want a pants pocket 9mm then the Kel-tec single stack 9 is only about 12 ounces empty and is about .9" thick. Current production has been shown to be reliable. An inexpensive weapon that lacks panache but works well.

The Sig 290 is 20 ounces empty and quite small but just as heavy as the Glock. Both the Glock and the Sig are rated for +P ammo and I'd have no problem running +p ammo through them on a regular basis. The other small 9mm guns either warn against the +P or they say "limited use" only. I am not a fan of 9mm but if I were to carry a 9mm I would want one that could shoot +P ammo.


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## XD40Colorado (Jun 19, 2011)

None of the above. Kel-Tec/LCP VERY uncomfortable to shoot. It feels like someone slapping your palm after a few shots, like a VERY hard high-five. This translates to someone being less likely to practice with these weapons, and possibly reducing their ability to hit accurately during an attack. Taurus is crap; reliability is fine, but their customer service SUCKS. 

I'd check out a Sig p238 or a SW Bodyguard 380. JMO.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

XD40Colorado said:


> None of the above. Kel-Tec/LCP VERY uncomfortable to shoot. It feels like someone slapping your palm after a few shots, like a VERY hard high-five. This translates to someone being less likely to practice with these weapons, and possibly reducing their ability to hit accurately during an attack. Taurus is crap; reliability is fine, but their customer service SUCKS.
> 
> I'd check out a Sig p238 or a SW Bodyguard 380. JMO.


The Body Guard .380 is about the same size and makeup of the other two polymer guns you listed as being uncomfortable to shoot, and guess what? The BG.380 is just as uncomfortable to shoot as the others during extended practice.

They can all be tamed down a little with some additives. A pinky rest and a slip-on grip do a world of wonders for the LCP and P3AT as the pinky rest will _typically_ rest in the crease between the ring finger and the middle finger (for averge man hands) and the slip grip provides more "sticky" surface contact to the hand.

I do agree that the 238 (especially the HD) mitigate felt recoil much better than the others mentioned above, even with those add-ons considered.


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## crescentstar69 (Sep 24, 2011)

Why no Glock pocket-sized gun? They could corner the market in no time. (yes, I know about the 26 and 27. too chunky)


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

crescentstar69 said:


> Why no Glock pocket-sized gun? They could corner the market in no time. (yes, I know about the 26 and 27. too chunky)


I think even a single stack 26/27 would sell. The Diamond Back looks like what I would imagine a mini-Glock would. I don't think it has the same level of engineering though.


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

Bodyguard .380..6+1..Very nice pistol,I use it for my ankle. So small you can put it in your pocket. And not tell you have a pistol there.


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

I carry my G27 24-7, Perfect for ccw...


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## onalandline (Jan 8, 2010)

Cat said:


> I carry my G27 24-7, Perfect for ccw...


I just picked up a new G27 a few weeks ago. I wanted one for about a year.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Bodyguard .380.......carry in front pocket, with Desantis holster....comfortable, and almost undetectable......


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## ks23321 (Nov 1, 2011)

I just picked up the Taurus 738. I love it so far!!! No problems and accurate, my dad has the LCP, great gun as well. I went with the Taurus for just a few reasons. I like how the slide locks back on an empty clip, and I liked the price basically. I think the LCP feels better, and it feels better made. but for the big price difference I dont think there is anything wrong with the tcp 738!


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## auggy53 (Feb 7, 2012)

i have the lcp with the c.t. laser and if i had it to do over i would get the bodyguard s.w. the bodyguard is wider so it feels better .the lcp triger slapps my finger and hurts like hell after 25 or so rounds . i added pachmyer grip to help me hold on to it and that helped a bit . the c.t. laser is usless outdoors . overall i guess its a good carry gun if you dont need to get used to the gun before you really need it


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have both a P3AT and an LCP. The P3AT works fine for its intended purpose but I ran into a little problem almost two years ago. I was at a beach and because of my chosen clothing one evening, I took along my P3AT and carried it in one of the cargo pockets of my shorts. In the main pocked on that side, I also have my room safe key ring. Well when I got back to the room and emptied my pockets, I saw that the magazine on the gun was partially ejected. Apparently the safe key ring had applied enough pressure on the mag release button through the cloth to cause the magazine to unlock.

So about a year and a half ago, after carefully inspecting the LCP and the Taurus 738 TCP, I bought an LCP. Last year at the beach with carrying this little gun several times under the same conditions as with the P3AT, the magazine stayed where it was and all was well.

One other nice feature about the LCP is the fact that you can lock the slide to the rear for inspection and disassembly. Overall, a better gun for a pocket mouse gun.


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## Ricky59 (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm on my 2nd LCP ..sold the 1st one to get a sig p238.
After carrying it locked & cocked in the pants for sometime ..
I had bumped the safety off while carrying it..with no grip safety I felt uncomfortable carring it in the pants ...
Now back with the LCP no safety to worry about ..

Wife says... LCP is a Little Cute Pistol


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## DragonLord (Mar 18, 2012)

I wouldn't buy a 380, but if I did, it would be an LCP. Ruger's reputation and reliability.


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## Richardin52 (Mar 12, 2012)

Walther ppks 380. Why? It has been around a long time for a reason. All you have to do is shoot one a little to see. It hits what you want to hit, It feels good to shoot because it has more weight, It hides well. There is a reason a lot of companies have tried to copy this design.


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## Hurryin' Hoosier (Jan 8, 2011)

Find a good Beretta Model 1934, if you want a _real_ gun.


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## MikeyMike (Mar 25, 2012)

I cc an LCP .380 everyday. I sold the LC9 to get it. The LC9 is an unreliable piece of garbage, IMHO, and will not own another. The new Taurus PT738 is made in the USA (one version of it, I should say), I fired one not long ago and it is now in the running for my next .380 purchase. It is a nice weapon. My next .380 will be either the Diamondback or the Taurus. The Diamondback is American made & actually has adjustable sights. I just want them to get the 'new' gremlins worked out first. 
LOL ... you oughta see this little LCP with the 15 round magazine hanging out of it! When I run out of ammo, I can beat you to death with it!
Yeah, for pocket carry, the LCP .380 gets my vote


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## stantheman1976 (Mar 26, 2012)

I chose the Taurus PT738 as my first venture into the CC world. I got it for just over $200 at a local shop recommended by a family member. So far I'm pleased. I've shot 50 S&B rounds, about 30 American Eagle, 70 Winchester white box, and a few mags of Hornady Critical Defense. The only reason I haven't shore more is I'm between jobs for a few weeks and since I still have some AE and Hornady left I can't justify extra right this minute. I will shoot it quite a bit more when I'm working again. With the Winchester I experience a FTE twice. The other brands worked fine. I believe it to be because of the shape of the Winchester tips. They are flat nosed where the other FMJ models are rounded.

The only semi-odd thing I've noticed is when the pistol is loaded and I'm ready to shoot if I draw the trigger really slow the trigger doesn't always want to release immediately. I have to pull a little more swiftly and it works every time. In dry fire practice this has never happened. Has anyone else experience this?

I do plan to upgrade to a larger caliber later this year when I've become more comfortable having a weapon on me always. I think the Ruger LC9 will be my choice for my next primary CCW. Size wise it is only slightly larger so I think it will make a nice IWB carry model.


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## Charliefox (Dec 10, 2011)

My P3AT and P32 have NEVER failed to go bang when the trigger was pulled. Ruger copied the P3AT because it worked.


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

I had an LCP and carried it for a while then one day I had a friend over and we had a ND in the garage (gun pointed in a safe direction) and it hit an axe handle and all it did was crack the wood and wedged in the axe head long short it didn’t make the grade.

Foot lbs of energy for a 380 is only 168 lbs as were 9mm is in the 350 lbs range at the muzzle


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## stantheman1976 (Mar 26, 2012)

barstoolguru said:


> I had an LCP and carried it for a while then one day I had a friend over and we had a ND in the garage (gun pointed in a safe direction) and it hit an axe handle and all it did was crack the wood and wedged in the axe head long short it didn't make the grade.
> 
> Foot lbs of energy for a 380 is only 168 lbs as were 9mm is in the 350 lbs range at the muzzle


168 foot pounds of hollow point in a bad guy's chest should be plenty enough to make his day turn bad pretty fast though. Even a shot in his leg or foot will make his day suck pretty bad.

I know .380 isn't the biggest or baddest round out there but going into human flesh it's plenty enough to give you an advantage over a dumb criminal.


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## jdw68 (Nov 5, 2011)

MikeyMike said:


> I cc an LCP .380 everyday. I sold the LC9 to get it. The LC9 is an unreliable piece of garbage, IMHO, and will not own another.


Interesting comment Mike, you must of had a bad LC9. Mine has been very reliable and fairly easy to shoot accurately. I admit that I shoot tighter groups with my glock(due to the diff in the triggers) but the LC9 puts up tight enough groups for a pocket pistol. I also prefer the 9mm LC9 round to the 380 LCP just for a little more power, and find the LC9 to have much better sites. I'm not being critical of the LCP cause I would love to own one someday, I just chose the LC9 first for the above reason and haven't regretted it yet.


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

stantheman1976 said:


> 168 foot pounds of hollow point in a bad guy's chest should be plenty enough to make his day turn bad pretty fast though. Even a shot in his leg or foot will make his day suck pretty bad.
> 
> I know .380 isn't the biggest or baddest round out there but going into human flesh it's plenty enough to give you an advantage over a dumb criminal.


The FBI standard for penetration in 14 inches, a chest shot is great but that doesn't happen most of the time. Say his arm gets in the way and you hit it; that gives him a second chance to shoot back. With a more powerful round it will go through the arm and still hit the chest. remember trama kills, not the bullet


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## VNvet (Mar 27, 2012)

I did not vote since I have no experience with any of the pistols you have listed. Many years ago I bought my Sig Sauer P230 and I haven't looked back. My P230 is smooth accurate and fits my hand nicely for a small pistol. I also have a PPk/s, which bites the hand that feeds and fires it. That little stinker.

Vv


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## MikeyMike (Mar 25, 2012)

LCP .380 & two spare mags; get you the Tagua IWB leather holster with belt clip in LH and it fits your SOB perfectly for RH draw, and it works great in your pull on boots as well. Get the Tagua double mag holder & your all set. Enough gun and ammo to get you out of whatever you got into and to your bigger guns ...


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## stantheman1976 (Mar 26, 2012)

MikeyMike said:


> LCP .380 & two spare mags; get you the Tagua IWB leather holster with belt clip in LH and it fits your SOB perfectly for RH draw, and it works great in your pull on boots as well. Get the Tagua double mag holder & your all set. Enough gun and ammo to get you out of whatever you got into and to your bigger guns ...


I carry mt Taurus TCP in pocket with a Galco holster. I chose that method for multiple reasons. I'm a large guy with a flat butt so my pants tend to sag a bit naturally without having a pistol (even a small one) pulling them down more. I've also heard a couple reports of police receiving serious spinal injuries from falling when they were carrying their radio or BUG SOB.

I plan to upgrade my primary carry to a PT709 slim or Ruger LC9 in a few months and will likely choose IWB at that time but for now I'm good with where I'm at.


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## VNvet (Mar 27, 2012)

Even though the LCP is a remake of the P-3AT, I think the remake is an improvment.


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## Easy_CZ (Jul 20, 2012)

Of those three, I'd go with the LCP. However, I'd take a Sig P238 over any of those three any day. Sure it's more costly, but it's better made, customizable, sports a sweet SA trigger and (gasp!) actual useable sights. 

Having said that, I'd take a Sig P938 over the P238. 9mm is cheaper to shoot and it has superior ballistics compared to the more expensive .380 ACP.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

this initial post is so old it should be deleted
i don't think the p238 was even out when the post was made
i used to own an LCP but couldn't shoot even 50 rounds at the range before i quit - 
i wonder if the p238 has better springs and recoils less
now little 9mms are out and the p938 looks like a BIG winner - not striker fired - but has an exposed hammer for cocked and locked


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