# Low Budget Black Rifle



## gmaske

I was kicking around the idea of picking up a surplus type rifle to build a low budget Black Rifle. There is some Russian and other stuff floating around out there and I was wondering what would be the best choice. Ammo availability, reloadability, and price are all important here. My Brother inlaw picked up a Russian 7.62 x 39 that I put an aftermarket stock on for him. It was pretty cool to shoot. I don't have a lot of learning on this subject so any info would be great!


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## DevilsJohnson

I have a Yugo AK Underfolder (M-70)









You can still get Romanian AK's pretty cheap but the furniture isn't the best on those so you might want to change to at the least refinish it. The WASR's have a milled receiver and a lot of the AK snobs don't like them but they work very well. SuckLead has one if I remember. I'm sure she can say how well or not they work. I did have one and really want another one.

If you can find a good SKS they are not too bad either. I have a D Type Chinese that I put a Tapco stock on that I live to shoot. I had redone the original stock but thought I'd update it . I like the D Types because they use AK mags so you are not bogged with the box mag many have or the high cap SKS mags. I like being able to use the same mags with my AK and my SKS.








Since this pic was taken I have changed the scope out to a holo site that I got in another trade.

There are all kinds of different rifles that are not too pricey. I thought I'd show you two I have. he SKS I got for 300.00. A little high for an SKS maybe but after seeing what they sell for ion other places I come in pretty cheap.

There are the double Star AR's too. Most of the models they make are a little cheaper than some of the high end models but they are really nice rifles. The people that started Double Star worked for some of the big guys in the AR market. They went to making their own I can't remember exactly when. It seems they got in just before the 1st ban. Many people building their own AR will start with a DS receiver. I have a Star-15 Rifle. It's nothing fancy but it's more accurate than I thought it would be. And was a lot cheaper than many others. Here it is.









There are many others but I thought this might help you a little and I do love showing them off anyway :smt082


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## dondavis3

+1 DevilsJohnson great pictures - these made me get off my rear & learn how to post pictures.

Oh boy your in trouble now - someone taught me how to post picture

Here's my AR 15:










:smt1099


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## Todd

DevilsJohnson said:


>


What concerns me are the bottles of "Climax" on top of the bucket. :smt033


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## YFZsandrider

I think its water, but I noticed that too.:anim_lol:

havin some problems there, buddy?!:mrgreen:


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## gmaske

Devils,
I'm not out to impress anyone. Just looking for a fun and reliable rifle. I like both of yours with a leaning towards the SKS. Like I said before, I'm not up on this stuff so save me the search and tell me what they shoot. There is a Gun Show coming up in Denver the middle of October and if I can scrape some cash up I might go looking.


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## gmaske

Ok, so I figured out that 7.62x39 Russian is the standard. So what else can you guys tell me?


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## gmaske

So I'm going to look at one Saturday. It is a Russian made SKS with an after market folding stock. It's on consignment at a shop that is fairly local to me. Actually it is the closest real gun shop in my area that has any real stock. It about 50 miles from the house. The guy wants $389.00 for it which might be a bit high depending.... but checking the on-line guns for sale it's about right. The stock will have to go in favor of a Tapco Intrafuse. My understanding is that the Russian models were the best made of the bunch. Here's hoping the barrel ain't shot out.


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## DevilsJohnson

Todd said:


> What concerns me are the bottles of "Climax" on top of the bucket. :smt033


HAHAHAAHAAAA..Climax is a local spring water company. It's located in Climax Ky. The "bucket" is a cast iron dutch oven. I like to cook and sometimes it's better to use the old fashioned stuff :smt023

*gmaske* The SKS shots a 7.62x39 round that is pretty cheap still. They made the SKS all over the place. I lean to the Chinese one because it does not require a special mag. Trey usually have that little box mag on the rifle but you can get higher capacity ones too. The D Type/Chinese ones will use regular AK mags which makes things easier down the road for me. They are also a little cheaper and I only need one type mags for both rifles that use the same round.

You are going to hear all about the horrors of old commie ammo and the stuff they make not (Wolf, Brown Bear,etc.) that are steel cases and how bad they are to the weapon. That just simply isn't a factor honestly. First, the steel of the case is much softer than your rifles chamber and they are coated with a varnish. This has to jobs. First it works to preserve the case being it's steel it can rust. Second, it works like a lube being many rifles that use that round are not semi automatic. That's why so many come with chrome lined bbls. In full auto you want it to feed and that varnish works great ion that capacity. So all the people that have worn out chambers must be doing something funky to the weapon or the round. Because they were made to use that steel cased round to begin with.

You will not get the best accuracy with the cheaper steel cased rounds but they will work good enough for more occasions. If you want to look around there are companies that make ammo that is a little more precision. But remember...These weapons were designed for military use. They are made sloppy to work..Period...So they are made more loose and the ammo they use is a little hot. All in all they make great rifles (the SKS)

You can get after market stocks pretty easy. The one on mine will also fit the SKS with the standard magazine. There are several varieties so pick the flavor that is best for you. I liked the Tapco T6 because I like the telescoping rear like on an AR. They make them in every possible style you can imagine. Making the SKS a much more versatile weapon. Even if you don't want to change the stock but you want to put optics on one they make a replacement spring cover that will pop right on that has a rail on it. There are also hand guards with rails on them if you want to go that rout. I bought one (Spring Cover) for mine but don't use it anymore because the new stock had the rail on the hand guard

Norinco makes the model like mine. It's the only one that I know of that uses AK mags. There were some made back when but I have not seen many the last 10 years. Norinco models are not the easiest to find but I usually see one or two at gun shows.
.


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## gmaske

It would apear that it is pretty simple to convert to removeable mags. The Tapco mags have got the best rating on the Midway site. This could be a lot of fun!!!:mrgreen:


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## DevilsJohnson

You don't convert to a regular mag. Tapco and a few others are making an SKS mag that looks a bit different.


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## gmaske

Well today is the big day and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. It's just a toy I want and I've been wondering if I should spend the money or not. I'll go look anyway.....


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## DevilsJohnson

Good luck!! :smt023


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## gmaske

Well I bought it...and most likely paid a bit to much. I looked at what was available on line and there were a bunch higher and a few lower in price. I coughed up $439.00 for it out the door. It came with 83 rounds of ammo and a bunch of stripper clips. (I like them stripper clips! Took to em like a duck takes to water.:smt023) Anyway it was the dirtiest gun of any kind that I've had the displeasure to clean. Nearly five hours of soak, scrub, and clean. It was so fouled that the gas piston was nearly ceased in its bore. So hear is a beauty shot after its cleaning and a trip to the range were I put 23 round down the tube. Three were just to check function and twenty were at two targets. Fifty yards, open sights, old eyes, and surplus ammo.....Not bad for a first outing. I think it is worth putting a few more bucks in to. 
Whatduya think?:smt033


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## DevilsJohnson

Who made that one?

It looks like the elevation was not set right but then again 50 yards is a chip shot with one of those. So you might have gone out another 50 and had none outside the target. A lot of people will put them (SKS) down because they've been so cheap but the dang things shoot pretty well I think. It has upwards of a 125.00 stock on it too depending who made that too. 

The dreaded black rifles are starting to go down some but they are still pretty high. You get more than the one mag? I can't remember how much those go for these days. Seems they are a little more than standard AK mags but no much.

Wait..I"m pretty dumb..Is that the Russian you talked about in the earlier post? If so that's not all that bad a price really.


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## gmaske

Yep it'a a Russian and it came with only the one mag. I'll be dumping the non folding....folding stock in favor of a Tapco with no rails. I'll order up a sight adjusting tool at tha same time. I think the elevation might be ok for 100 yards but i'm pretty sure it shoots a bit to the right. Could be me pulling right but only time and ammo will tell. I'm going to tap the receiver and put a scope on it as soon as funds allow too. It is fun to shoot!:smt033


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## DevilsJohnson

Yeah, it's really hard to judge those things with that steel case surplus ammo. Get you a box or two of something pretty nice and check it then. The surplus stuff is pretty hot so they can get a little squirrelly sometimes.

What Tapco stock you looking at? That one don't fold? It looks like the ones that you have to pick up the pin in the hinge to get them to fold but I can't tell 100% from the pic.

Man...Those things are a blast to shot. They are not too high to get hold of and the ammo wont kill you usually..price wise..heh. It's powerful enough a round to reach out there a little bit and the recoil is totally manageable. I'd like to get a longer barrel model like a Dragunov. But I'll probably looking at another caliber for that.

Can't wait to see what you do with it. I swear..That's the best part of getting those old commie guns...All the stuff you can do to them.


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## gmaske

From what I gather from what the sales guy told me the stock was sold during the ban period and is locked in the open position. He told me I could get a kit for it to make it fold again. Doesn't matter cause I don't like the looks of the stock anyway. I might see if I can find the kit if I go to sell it. I'm thinking on getting the TAPCO Intrafuse T6 Adjustable Stock in Synthetic Black. I'll leave the plain black gas tube hand gard cover that is on it now. I want to be able to use the factory sights also and a top rail on the gas tube kills that. I don't want any rails other than the scope mount. I'm looking at a Choate Scope Mount that you drill and tap the receiver to mount. For a scope I was looking at a NcStar Mark 3 Compact Tactical Rifle Scope 2-7x 32mm. I'll add a Tapco 5 and 10 round mag to it also.

Do you know much about the original finish on this rifle. It kind of looks like some of it should be painted and some of it should be blued. I'm thinking there is a bit more paint than there should be.

Here are a few links to my wish list items:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=222544
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=435151
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=919985


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## DevilsJohnson

That looks to be the same stock I have on mine but mine was called the T6 fusion. I have no idea what's different if anything. I love mine. The holo site I have on mine now is an NC star. I've had people telling me I shouldn't use it but it worked very well so I don't see why not use it. don't like how it mounts all that much but it stays put so I'm happy with it. I just can't see paying as much for optics as I did for the rifle so I looked at some less expensive things from cdnn. The one in the pic is a Target Sports scope. The reticle lights up rather red or green and has a few brightness settings. I am going to get another SKS I think and mount it on that. With the T6 stock I had that rail on the handguard and that made using a holo site a lot more attractive. I had the other one on that spring cover that I bought to replace the stock one. Got that at cdnn pretty cheap too.

I never was a fan of those side folder stocks. I like the collapsible ones a lot more. I don't blame you for wanting to change that. I know they are sturdy and all they just don't look it and that breeds a lack of confidence. No need for that involved in using a firearm.

Those spring cover mounts are pretty cool. Most are made so you can use the regular sites as well as the optic mounted being they make the mounts with a channel to be able to use the iron sights when you want to.

Edit to add:
Link to the scope mount (Link)
Link to the scope (Link) (They have several others listed in Ar, AK, and SKS scopes.)


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## gmaske

I chose that scope mount because I wanted a really solid mount with no chance of movement short of it bending. I wanted a variable power scope too. I like the idea of 2x to 7x rather than the standard 3x to 9x. It just makes more sense to me for this rifle. I'm trying to keep cost down to as little as possible but when it's done I want something that will bring the best out of the rifle. I'll work on fit and finish on the really cold days this winter. I was kicking around the idea of having a machinest cut an outline groove on the rear sight so I could put some paint in it for a better sight picture. I'll hit the front sight with paint also. Black on black aiming at black is hard!
Getting back to a question I asked earlier.....The bolt and barrel are painted and I kind of think they shouldn't be. The spring/bolt cover and trigger guard look like they are factory black paint but like I said the barrel looks like it was painted later. The gas piston tube is blued but there is a spot or two with a little paint on it too. Just really small spots that look like they've been there a really long time.

You know, looking at that second target I've got five of the ten shot in a tight group. Three touching and two touching.......that getting my expectations up really high on what this baby might just be able to do.

Oh....I never mentioned that all the numbers match on it which was a big relief. I didn't want a parts gun.


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## DevilsJohnson

It's painted not blued? I guess if the paint isn't all that hard to get of it be a good excuse to do a Dura Coat job to it. I kind of thought about doing mine but I am not sure as to color. Mine is all blued but there are spots that are getting thin. Not one of those wild jobs they do on the site but something simple. I'm not wanting some Hollywood rifle or anything. But it would be nice to get it all even.

The rail on the hand guard are pretty solid on those Tapco stocks. Thing is it's so far up that mounting a regular scope there didn't seem that good an idea so I went with the NcStar Holographic Red Dot Sight. Not good I guess over 100 yards but I have that Bolt/spring cover with a rail on it if I want to switch back.

I'm not really sure what these things are supposed to be able to do range wise but I've done pretty well out to 150 yards. It's a little hard to get a longer shot off around here in the hill country if S. central Ky..heh. That and the idea that this is no High dollar weapon I have not really tried to stretch it out all that much more.

For the money invested though it's really hard to not like the things. I have wondered if one was to really get down on one just how well they could shoot. But it's hard to justify a lot of money into a rifle like these. I remember when you could get an SKS for 60.00 and all of them you wanted. That first ban did a lot to kill the supply of them and jack the prices on them. I wouldn't mind though starting on another one after I eventually get this one as done as I want to. That or another AK if I can find one that isn't too high. I'd really like to get another Romanian one. The AK Elitist don't like them because of thew milled receivers but I really like them.

I do really like the 7.62x39 round though. It might not be the most accurate out there but it does pretty well.


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## gmaske

I've been doing some digging on the net and found that it could very well be factory paint. There are a few sites with some really good information. Mine is a 1954 Tula Arsnal rifle. It would apear that some were painted all black. I also found a site that tells you how to do a trigger job. It has a link to another site were you can get a new sear if you screw up or you don't want to use the original. There are a bunch of other parts too.

This one is a gold mine for me:
http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-25.htm

later I added:
I ordered up a new sear and front sight pin set. I want to try some trigger work and from what I've read, all the work revolves around the sear. Check out these sight pins! This should help the sight picture a whole bunch!

http://www.amazon.com/Tapco-SKS-5-Piece-Front-Sight/dp/B000BAUSZ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1254966574&sr=8-1


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## DevilsJohnson

Great links thanks! I have a red pin in mine. It's a lot better than the black ones.

Edit to add: You might want to check out this page for a manual for your new rifle. There are literally tons there. All pdf downloads LINK
Here's another site that might be of use (LINK)


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## gmaske

Ok....

I'll own up to it.....

I was really really *BAD!!!*

I went *NUTS* on Ebay this weekend.

New stock, new scope, new scope mount, spotting scope.

*I couldn't help myself!*


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## gmaske

*Holy Cow Batman!*

I just finished up my trigger job and WOW what a diffrence! All the work is done on the sear so I bought a new one, set the old one aside, and went to town on its replacement. Then I picked up a Wolff hammer and sear spring set. The pulls is half as heavy. The take up is half as much and the release is way sooner. Before I touched anything it had this long heavy pull and would release just short of the back of the trigger guard. The way the safety is set up it would start getting in the way just before the hammer would release. It really sucked. 
I can't wait to try it.
MAN AM I PUMPED!!!!!


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## DevilsJohnson

Sounds like you're getting ti lines out right. I was at a gun show today and had seen a couple that were in pretty good shape but I ended up with a 870 that I want to set up as a house gun. But I really want to get another SKS or AK and get nuts with it. I love the one I got now. Always room for one more though :smt082

You get the Tapco T6 stock you were looking at before?


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## gmaske

I'll be seeing UPS Monday or Tuesday with the stock and the new spring/bolt cover with a Weaver rail on it. The new spring/bolt cover is supose to be oversized so it will fit tight when fitted. I hope so! Otherwise it's a waste of money to put a scope on. Speaking of scopes, I'm getting the run around on the one that I bought off of Ebay. The story I'm getting is that NCStar sent them the wrong scopes and the right one "should" be in any day.....yatta, yatta, yatta.... The one I ordered was a 3-9x 42mm Mil Dot. It looks like I could upgrade to the same scope with range finder and laser but I'm not sure about the range finder part. I need to call them today to see if they are open. The other issue is the one I ordered was spec.ed to be under 6" and this other one is nearly 8". I was wanting that shorter scope because of the way this thing slings brass. According to my guestimates I'd be ok with the shorter scope.


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## gmaske

*Update!!!!*

:watching:

I got the Tapco stock and installed the action in it. What a huge improvement in looks and handling. I also got the recoil spring dust cover with the see threw scope mount. I had to hand fit that to the receiver. It's pretty good but if the weather is nice this weekend I'll get out my wire feed welder and run a bead on either side of the lug on the back of the dust cover and then hand fit that to the receiver. There is enough of a gap that I can still move it back and forth just a tad. It's tight but I don't want ANY movement at all. I was on the Ruger site today checking out their ranch rifle. I'm way ahead of that game with a ton more features and way less money. I'm still waiting for those idiots at Outdoorbunker to ship my scope, spotting scope, and site adjustment tool for the SKS. I'm about ready to have PayPal get my money back from them. I've already lodged a dispute claim with Ebay and PayPal. It's getting ugly! Funny thing is they have a great rating. I've called them a number of times but all I get is the run-around. I am totally in to this rifle and once I get it all together and the bugs worked out I'll be doing a Duracoat paint job on all the metal after I get that all smoothed out.

Having fun in Colorado :smt023

Wait! Wait!!......
HOLY MOLEY!
It's been scanned in!!!
MOVEMENT!!!!
My scope is coming!!!!

:supz:YES!!:supz:


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## DevilsJohnson

Fantastic!
Man I like the SKS rifles, there's a ton of things you can do to them. They are not the ultimate target rifle or anything but they can do pretty darn well if you put a little time into it. LOL! Yeah I'd say you come in way under the Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. I like those things but not enough to pay the money on one. I'd rather have an AR for that money. I'm wanting to do a new coat job to mine too I think. But I'm kind of looking to get another AK and fool around with that too so I really don't know what I'm going to do. My SKS is a total blast to shoot now that it's been modified to my liking.The 7.62x39 round is a pretty good round too. 

You get yours done how you want you're going to really like it. I have had a lot of fun with mine. It's pretty cool to breathe some new life into some of those old Commie guns..heh


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