# New Shooter - Glock 17 Sights Question



## JRB78 (Mar 12, 2014)

Hello, new to the forum here, and I registered as I saw some really good information in the threads.

I recently purchased a Glock 17, Gen 4. Everything is stock, except I changed out the sights for trijicon GL01. I am training at nice indoor range but I am having trouble with confidence with my site picture. I am a real over-thinker, nitpicker, type of person, and the fact that I cannot line up the 3 dots, AND the tops of the 3 posts, makes me confused and crazy. Additionally, I can not see the black posts against a black silhouette target. I end up taking aim on a light part of the target and then moving back --- clearly this is not good.

Apparently someone else has this same issue, and I found a set of images online which represent what I'm struggling with: http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w187/eeid07/Diagram4.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/...ghtpicturetypecomparisonAimPointDeviation.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/...uretypecomparisonAimPointDeviationCaption.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w187/eeid07/Sight_WhyExtraWork2.jpg

I wish I knew what the guy who did all these images actually recommends 

My gripe with the stock glock sights is similar, I am unable to find a "correct" picture visually. The white U does not make its way all the way to the top of rear posts, and the dot doesn't always have a tight placement in the center.

My interest in handguns is primarily self defense, home, and then carry. I also enjoy the social and sporting nature of shooting and would like to pick a sight that doesn't hinder me from doing casual competitions. (i.e. no ghost rings)

The sight that my eye liked the most in the store was the Steyr triangle sight, and some fiber 3 dots, where i could actually align the dots AND the posts, giving me confidence in the picture. I am hesitant to buy the XS big dot, as I already find myself focusing on the target and back tot he front sight to hit something that the post obscures.

I would like to find something that I can have confidence in the vertical alignment of the sight, the horizontal I seem to do well with with most sights. I have seen some sights online which interest me, but I don't know how they would pan out. Things like, aimline, suresight, speedsight, etc

Any advice is welcomed! (except for buy a different gun  ) Thanks!

EDIT - Additionally, I am not 100% sold on the concept of night sights, I feel like if its THAT dark, how am I going to know what I'm pointing my gun at? I think id be more likely to get a rail mounted light.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

I did the same thing with my Glock 17. I hated the trijicon night sights. Not that there is anything wrong with them it just didn't work for me and I wish I would have tried them out on something before I spent the $100. I ended up putting the factory Glock steel sights on it. They are fairly cheap and a little better than the sights that came on it. I ended up putting the steel sights on all 3 of my Glocks just to be consistant. In low light the white still stands out pretty good. I think more than anything it just takes practice with whatever sights you have. Most of my trouble with accuracy is grip and trigger pull (read this on here many times). I don't exactly have new eyes either I think that is some of the reason I struggled with the trijicons.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have the Trijicon GL01 sights on a number of my Glocks and like them a great deal. Low profile, snag free, and the front blade lets the right amount of light around it for the rear notch. I also have a gen4 G17 with these sights on it and shoot it quite well.

Do not concentrate on the dots. Rather use the standard patridge sight picture for your alignment. And yes, black sights on a black target are not great. Use a different target. I use two different sizes of paper plates and index cards for my targets. If you are shooting something dark in the dark, that is when you want to go with the lamps in the sights.

You'll find that like many other things with handguns, sights are largely a personal preference matter. For me, the GL01's work fine. For someone else, not so much.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

I have Trijicon's bright and tough on my pistols and they work very well. They also offer hi-viz models also. As far as sight picture with a combat handgun and sights your main focus should be on the front sight while the rear sights and target should be blurry, attempting to achieve perfect alignment for every shot is fine, but using that front sight as the (main) focus is where you want to be. As far as night sights go, of course they are optimum in low light situations, however, you can still see the sights in complete darkness, and a second plus is knowing where your pistol is and which way it's pointing. On a final note, if one is near sighted, far sighted, wears glasses, has bad vision, stigmatism, etc...... this can play havoc focusing on sights. It may not be the sights but your eyes.


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## JRB78 (Mar 12, 2014)

Thank you for your replies. I don't wear glasses or contacts, I'm 36 years old, but I do have an astigmatism in both eyes. Car headlights are like a starburst for me. 

When I was shopping for the gun, I tried the springfield XD, which has 3 daytime dots, and thought that by getting the GL01, id end up liking the 3 dots, but the fact that they are night sights, i think the focus on the white circle is hard for me.

But like one of you said, I wish I had know before dropping $100 on them. Is there a forum here for selling 2 week old GL01? 

My wife shoots the same gun as I (we share for now), and she can shoot fine with either glock stock, or GL01. So maybe it is my eyes.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Short answer: ignore the dots unless you HAVE to use them. Period. 

For best results on target a person should use the top edge of the sights for elevation control, and the equal bars of light on either side of the front sight when centered in the rear sight notch for windage (left-right) control. If the top edge of the front and rear sights are aligned straight and level, the front is centered in the rear notch (equal light on both sides), then the bullet should impact very close to wherever the top edge of the front sight is placed on the target (assuming the alignment is maintained during the firing of the shot, and the trigger is not pulled so hard that the gun is moved off-target at the last instant). Target-only pistols may use a different type of alignment, with the round bullseye part of the target "balanced" on top of the front sight (looks like a lollipop), but most defensive-type handguns are set up so the bullet hits where the front sight sits (again, if alignment is maintained correctly).

The high-visibility or glowing dots are supposed to be used only in defensive-type situations; usually, this means low-light conditions (when it is too dark to see the edges of the sights themselves, and the target has been identified by other means), at close range (so minor differences in alignment between the dots and edges of the sights are not a problem as the target is so close). Basically, put the dots in a row in the middle of the target and pull the trigger. They are not designed for shooting small shot groups on paper targets in good light; that is what normal sight alignment of the sight edges are used for. Can you use the dots in daylight? Yes, but you'll run into several problems: they might not put the shots into a well-centered group at different distances, the sights may block view of a large part of distant targets, and because the 3-dot alignment is harder to precisely control, the shot group will be more scattered on target (again, none of these are a problem for close-distance defensive use). 

If you have (or install) fully-click-adjustable target-style sights, then you can easily make changes to the sights to get the shot group located wherever you want in relation to the sight alignment, but target-style sights are usually taller (makes holster selection/use more difficult), and more abrasive/snaggy (sharp edges/corners can rub/"chew" on clothing or muffin-top skin rolls).

In the links you posted in your first message, the first sight alignment in the first two links are the ones you should use under normal lighting conditions. If too dark to see the edges, smoothly switch to the 3-dots-in-a-row-in-the-middle alignment, but expect larger groups and varying locations if you do, especially at longer distances. Same thing is true of the ball-in-the-box Glock stock sights; use the edges at longer ranges and in good light, use the ball-in-the-box-and-ball-in-the-middle-of-target in low light or on closer targets.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

I think I am going to try my trijicons again. I was always trying to use the dots for alignment no matter the lighting condition. Thanks JRB78. I may change my opinion of them.


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## JRB78 (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for the continued feedback. I am just wondering why the 2 rear dots are not simply higher up, to facilitate the same sight picture regardless of light?


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## JRB78 (Mar 12, 2014)

Does anyone have any experience with the XS standard dot sight?


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

JRB78 said:


> Thanks for the continued feedback. I am just wondering why the 2 rear dots are not simply higher up, to facilitate the same sight picture regardless of light?


Putting the rear dots on a night sight closer to the top edge of the rear sight would reduce the thickness of the metal between the edge of the sight and the edge of the hole where the night sight capsule is inserted. If this area were any thinner, it would be significantly easier to damage the capsule with an impact to the top edge of the rear sight. When your pistol is holstered, the top edge of the rear sight is the "leading" part of the handgun, most likely to be struck and/or damaged when you bump your holster into something while moving, especially with newly-armed folks who are not yet used to the extra thickness of a holster on their hip. When I was performing armorer duties a long time ago, I had to replace many rear sight blades on S&W revolvers when folks would bang their holstered weapon into a building door frame, car door, etc. while walking/running around.

Have you noticed that the relationship of the dot heights and sight edges changes slightly when you move the pistol closer to, or further away from, your face? Try it; hold it closer than normal and look at the dots and edges, then move to your normal shooting position and look again, then 2-handed as far from your face as possible (Isosceles stance) and look, then finally, hold the pistol in one hand in a single-handed-target-shooting stance, straight out from your shoulder (this moves the pistol as far as possible from your eye) and check again. For me, at full 2-handed extension, the difference is very slight, and one-handed-fully-extended, the difference is basically gone (still a difference between the center of the dot and the top of the sight blade, but they are both aligned at the same time in this position, for me). Maybe you need to get it out away from your face a bit further, if possible?

And before you ask, no, my knuckles don't drag when I walk upright... :mrgreen:


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## JRB78 (Mar 12, 2014)

DJ Niner said:


> Putting the rear dots on a night sight closer to the top edge of the rear sight would reduce the thickness of the metal between the edge of the sight and the edge of the hole where the night sight capsule is inserted. If this area were any thinner, it would be significantly easier to damage the capsule with an impact to the top edge of the rear sight. When your pistol is holstered, the top edge of the rear sight is the "leading" part of the handgun, most likely to be struck and/or damaged when you bump your holster into something while moving, especially with newly-armed folks who are not yet used to the extra thickness of a holster on their hip. When I was performing armorer duties a long time ago, I had to replace many rear sight blades on S&W revolvers when folks would bang their holstered weapon into a building door frame, car door, etc. while walking/running around.
> 
> Have you noticed that the relationship of the dot heights and sight edges changes slightly when you move the pistol closer to, or further away from, your face? Try it; hold it closer than normal and look at the dots and edges, then move to your normal shooting position and look again, then 2-handed as far from your face as possible (Isosceles stance) and look, then finally, hold the pistol in one hand in a single-handed-target-shooting stance, straight out from your shoulder (this moves the pistol as far as possible from your eye) and check again. For me, at full 2-handed extension, the difference is very slight, and one-handed-fully-extended, the difference is basically gone (still a difference between the center of the dot and the top of the sight blade, but they are both aligned at the same time in this position, for me). Maybe you need to get it out away from your face a bit further, if possible?
> 
> And before you ask, no, my knuckles don't drag when I walk upright... :mrgreen:


Thank makes alot of sense, thank you!


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)




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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

JRB78 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the XS standard dot sight?


Their standard dot sight size is going to be better for accuracy, but still not as good as the basic patridge design, which is what the Trijicon GL01 employs.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

JRB78 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the XS standard dot sight?


Their standard dot sight size is going to be better for accuracy, but still not as good as the basic patridge design, which is what the Trijicon GL01 employs.

I find the GL01's to be excellent sights for the Glock pistol. Their low profile nicely fits the low profile and low bore axis of the Glock. And the added light they allow past the front blade to the rear notch is a real plus for me. I never really notice their "dots" (lamps) when I shoot. I use the sights as though the lamps weren't even part of the sight. They are small enough and unintrusive enough for me to do this. Yet in the dark, these lamps are easy to pick up.


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## bushrat (Jun 25, 2013)

Odd. I've had the three dot Trijicon night sights on my Glock 17 ever since 1988. Have always worked well for me. I even have more "miles" out of them than they stated. It's been 27 years and still bright as the day I put them on. I love the three dots, line up fast and clear for me.


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## JRB78 (Mar 12, 2014)

My trouble is just that when I line up the dots, its different than the post lineup, so it distracts and confuses me.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

JRB78 said:


> My trouble is just that when I line up the dots, its different than the post lineup, so it distracts and confuses me.


I wonder if the front site is not straight. This happened to me when I took them to a "gun smith" when I first had them installed. Just tightening the front screw can make the front sight turn a little. I fixed mine myself making the front sight perfectly straight (not to hard to do Glock sights). Even after that still didn't like them. Since this post was started I put them back on and used them as described, ignoring the dots, and I had much better results. I still like the factory steel sights. I just feel in a panic situation I would have better results putting a big white dot inside a big white U. They may not be as precise as other sights but you can still make good hits at 7-10 yards. I am not change anybody's mind. I am just saying for my ability the glock steel sites work best.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

If you're training for self defense, I recommend you work shooting with both eyes open, and not taking the time to "aim". Why? You won't have time to aim if you face an encounter. You'll be lucky to get a shot off at all! Work on looking at your target, raising the pistol to where you can see the barrel in the center of the target and start squeezing the trigger. It will seem a little awkward at first, but the more you practice, the better you will get. Don't worry about "shot grouping". As long as you put a bullet anywhere in the vital areas (pretty much anywhere in the center of the torso area from the waste to the throat) you will do what you need to do, which is to neutralize a threat. Besides, if you have three to four shots well placed about four to five inches apart, you are going to cause massive dammage...if you can get that many off before you're killed.


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