# Help with an historical puzzle?



## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

Not sure where this should go:

I've been organizing my cartridge collection, and came upon a round that is sort of a puzzle. Maybe somebody here can be of help.

The round in question is a .38 Long Colt round. The bullet is of inside lubricated type, the case is brass, primer is copper, with the "U" stamp. The head stamp is "REM-UMC" and "18". This is apparently loaded with black powder (copper primer) for a Government contract in 1918. Apparently there was a need for .38 Long Colt ammunition in 1918 and the Government contracted with Remington to supply a batch. By 1918 Frankford Arsenal would have been producing only .45 ACP ammunition for the WW I effort.

I do have .38 Colt ammo loaded by Frankford Arsenal as late as 1911, and .45 Colt M1909 loaded as late as 1913.

Comments from military historians welcome.

ALL comments welcome.

Bob Wright


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

My coworker is intrigued. Can we see a picture?


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

Old Padawan said:


> My coworker is intrigued. Can we see a picture?


Be glad to comply, will take a day or so.

Bob Wright


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

Here is a photo of the round, with a couple more for comparison:










I'm having trouble with PhotoBucket in editing, couldn't resize.

Bob Wright


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## jimg11 (May 17, 2006)

*38 Long Colt*

Hi Bob, 
Are you sure the powder is black? I believe the U on the primer would indicate smokeless. I have some of those and the 38 LC was still a substitute standard in 1918 as the US was issuing .38 guns as late as 1909. These weapons would have gone to the states for militias and NG units after new models were issued to US Units. With a buildup as big as WW1 there would be numerous times when Ordinance would need .38 Ammo for training at least in the United States with the call ups of State Militias and National Guards.

Jim


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2008)

Was that the same cartridge as the 38 S&W? I recall that they were the same but Colt didn't want 38 S&W on the bbl of their revolvers so they called it 38 Colt or LC. What is the case length?


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

The copper primer is an indication of black powder, initialed or not. The standard at the time was copper for black powder, brass for semi-smokeless, and nickel for smokeless powder. All may have the initials of the manufacturer.

No, the .38 Long Colt, originall called the .38 Army, was different from the .38 S&W. The .38 S&W was identical to the .38 Colt New Police, with the exception that the .38 Colt NP has a flat nosed bullet.

The same applies to the .38 S&W Special and the .38 Colt Special, the .32 S&W and the .32 Colt New Police. The .38 S&W Special and Colt Special are now known just as the .38 Special, while the .38-44 Special is the .38 Special +P. The .38-44 S&W and the .38-44 Special being entirely two different rounds.

Bob Wright


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