# The Judge



## twolfe84 (Feb 17, 2009)

I am very considering the Judge and dont know a whole lot about it. Any one have any good/bad experices with the Judge? and what you think about it!!!!


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=16978&highlight=Taurus+Judge


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I own a Judge and for what I bought it for, it is great.

It sits on the night stand on the side of the bed my wife sleeps on and is loaded with alternating OOO Buck Shot and .45 Long Colt Hollow Points.

She can shoot it well and has practiced with it at the range.

The recoil does not bother her at all, but she's been shooting other guns for years.

It's not for target shooting, but it make a hell of a close up and personal gun.

Most say they hate it, but I believe they are not understanding it's purpose - close work.

The Judge is selling like hot cakes and you can hardly find one to buy a few months ago - they increased production and they are easier to find now.

Of my shooting buddies four of them (including me) have bought the Judge and each of use like it for what it's meant to do.

:smt1099


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## gmounce (Jun 14, 2008)

I don't own the judge but I have put several hundred rounds threw my buddies. My thoughts are for extreme close range it is deadly with the 410 loads. I did not find the 45 long colts to shoot very consistent with my self behind the gun but I'm not an ace marksman. For his intended purpose for his wife as a night stand gun for close personal defense when he is out of town I think it is perfect. Is it the gun for me no, but I have plenty of weapons better suited for my needs. If you’re looking for a nice close quarters self defense gun and are not very familiar with shooting hand guns I think it would be perfect. Remember a lot of people will tell you it is junk and have no first hand knowledge of the weapon. My advice try and go shoot one with both the colts and 410 shells and make your own decision.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 Gmounce

:smt1099


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

gmounce said:


> I don't own the judge but...[at] extreme close range it is deadly with the 410 loads...


Oh?
What did you kill with it?
How do you know that it's "deadly"?
Please tell us.


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## Mdnitedrftr (Aug 10, 2006)

I own one and while theres nothing wrong with the gun, its novelty has worn off. I never carry it, and it only really comes out to play when I bring a noob to the range. They always get a kick out of it.

I think if I were to ever get rid of any of my guns, that would be the one.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I am moved to point out that the person who stated that the Judge with .410 shotshells was a "deadly" combination has not seen fit to answer my question.
I wonder why.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I am moved to point out that the person who stated that the Judge with .410 shotshells was a "deadly" combination has not seen fit to answer my question.


I'm far from an expert, but isn't _any_ gun loaded with ammo a deadlycombination. :smt033


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Todd said:


> I'm far from an expert, but isn't _any_ gun loaded with ammo a deadlycombination. :smt033


Well, it kinda depends.
Generally speaking, I say "No."
Think Kolibri. Think .22 BB, CB, or Short.
To be deadly, some guns need to be pointed at the recipient's _medulla oblongata_ from no more than an inch or two away. Other guns need to be so carefully aimed from any further distance at a specific sensitive spot, that they are not "deadly" in any normal person's hands.

But you're merely begging the question, not asking seriously.

The problem to which I refer is the naive, uncritical neophyte who believes the advertising he reads.
That's the sort of person, I think, who posted his opinion that the Judge loaded with some sort of .410 shotshell was "deadly."

You can't merely aver something and then walk away. If you intend to present a fact, you have to be ready and able to back it up with meaningful, repeatable experimental data.

*Todd*, you know as well as I do that people come to this forum for advice, direction, and help. What kind of advice, direction, or help are we offering, if we do not question and debunk foolish and ill-thought-out, seemingly-definitive statements made by people who obviously don't really know what they are writing about?


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## gmounce (Jun 14, 2008)

Steve all I've shot with it has been a few gallons of water at 10 feet. I will not debate this issue with you since your an expert I guess. Your one of the reasons why most people don't post on these type forums.

And one question for the expert do you want to get shot at close range with 000 buck threw the judge????


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

gmounce said:


> Steve all I've shot with it has been a few gallons of water at 10 feet...


Ah, so now we know that the Judge is deadly against...water.
OK.



gmounce said:


> I will not debate this issue with you since your an expert I guess...


Far from it.
But I do have somewhat more _experience_ than you do, and that counts for something.
I also do not take advertisements at face value.
I suggest that you take a look at The Box o' Truth website, and see what they say about the Judge.



gmounce said:


> Your one of the reasons why most people don't post on these type forums...


The only thing that keeps people from posting on these forums, when they are confronted by unwelcome truth, is an uncritical belief in advertising and the miraculous, and a need to adhere to their own opinions in the face of real facts.
If you don't want answers to your questions, or useful information, or debate upon your cherished (if misguided) beliefs, then you would be right not to post.



gmounce said:


> And one question for the expert do you want to get shot at close range with 000 buck threw the judge????


I'd rather not get shot at any range by anything.
But I am pretty sure that, even at age 72 and arthritic, I could survive triple-ought buckshot out of a Judge, at least long enough to clean my opponent's clock.

The question, however, is not my preference in being hit by which cartridge from what platform, but rather which cartridges from what platforms will most effectively stop a fight the most quickly.
I respectfully submit that the Judge firing .410 buckshot does not fit the category in question.


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## gmounce (Jun 14, 2008)

Ok Steve I will just disagree with you on this one. 

I'm now finished with this and you have a good day.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> But you're merely begging the question, not asking seriously.
> 
> The problem to which I refer is the naive, uncritical neophyte who believes the advertising he reads.
> That's the sort of person, I think, who posted his opinion that the Judge loaded with some sort of .410 shotshell was "deadly."
> ...


Yeah, my comment was definitely a tongue-in-cheek comment aimed at anyone who mindlessly regurgitates marketing hype.



Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Todd*, you know as well as I do that people come to this forum for advice, direction, and help. What kind of advice, direction, or help are we offering, if we do not question and debunk foolish and ill-thought-out, seemingly-definitive statements made by people who obviously don't really know what they are writing about?


I'm with you 100%. Debunk and question away, I've got no issue with it.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

gmounce said:


> Your one of the reasons why most people don't post on these type forums.


Seems to me if we had more people like Steve, who expect people to back up their opinions with facts instead of just following blindly with what is told to them, we'd be better off. Just look at the mess we're in now by stupid people following the word "Change" without demanding any facts or proof to back it.

If people like Steve are one of the reasons why people don't post here, fine with me.


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## dosborn (Apr 17, 2009)

I have shot a Judge but have not attempted to kill anything with it. I am not a professional but from my experience with this gun and a .410 000 buck it could be very deadly. I don't know how close you would have to be but I would be confident in it protecting me from a BG 10-15 feet away. I don't think it take a dumb ass or a smart ass to figure it out.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Could a Judge from 10 ft be deadly with 000 Buck? Of course it could!

Is the Judge, loaded with 5 rounds of 000 Buck, the most effective manstopper around for the money, the size, the weight, etc. I submit there are a few hundred better solutions to the problem.

It's a cool novelty gun. I'd submit, unrivaled for snake defense, carried on a belt, out hiking, where legal.

VS a two-legged adversary? I'll take one of 50 other common defensive guns first.

If you want a shotgun, buy a shotgun. If you want a defensive revolver, buy one that isn't 2 feet long...

My 2 cents.

PS.... I like Steve's responses!

JeffWard


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## jay7 (Aug 22, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Oh?
> What did you kill with it?
> How do you know that it's "deadly"?
> Please tell us.


well ill back him up and say it is, i own one, at 10 feet the .410 will take down any man infront of it, and yes i have used it , shot a fisher cat at 20ft, nothing left of the fisher..........although im not saying its the best revolver around for self defense, but if i were faced with an attacker, and there was a Judge laying there......i would have no problems with trusting that if indeed aimed correctly and not at ones self, or appendange.........that it would effectively and i think quite painfully........get the job done lol, but then again a jennings .25 with a round in the chamber aimed carefully to the temple or eye socket will do the same thing.......to his or her own i guess


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

jay7 said:


> well ill back him up and say it is, i own one, at 10 feet the .410 will take down any man infront of it, and yes i have used it , shot a fisher cat at 20ft, nothing left of the fisher..........although im not saying its the best revolver around for self defense, but if i were faced with an attacker, and there was a Judge laying there......i would have no problems with trusting that if indeed aimed correctly and not at ones self, or appendange.........that it would effectively and i think quite painfully........get the job done lol, but then again a jennings .25 with a round in the chamber aimed carefully to the temple or eye socket will do the same thing.......to his or her own i guess


I don't believe you.

First off, a cat is not a man, and a .410 shotgun will not disintegrate a cat at 25 yards, though it may kill it, when fired from a real shotgun.

I think Steve's remarks are closer to the reality.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I own one & have shot it quite a bit - it shoots very well for what it is, The .45 LC is very accurate at 30 yards (if the shooter is). :anim_lol:

And I believe that .45 Long Colt have killed lots of things.

The 410 with 00 or 000 shot's gotta be a bitch to be shot with - heck the 7 1/2 shot would have to slow someone down unless they are on crack (Then you'd need a .45, opps it's got a .45 LC) :mrgreen:

I wouldn't want to be shot by it.


:smt1099


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Bisley said:


> I don't believe you.


 Me neither.

I was just checking this site out, http://www.huntingblades.com/410gacoisith.html , that what shooting the .410 out of a TC with a *10 inch barrel. *Long story short, at 25 yards, only 14 pellets (9%) hit the target. Far from the ability obliterate anything.

So, I'm going to have to hit the button.


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## jay7 (Aug 22, 2009)

lol your not from round here are ya, not a CAT a fisher.....aka fisher cat, cause it has a tail that resembles the cat, and in all literacy i did not mean the fisher was completely gone, aka vanished into think air, i mean "there was nothing left of it" the term one usualy uses when they are trying to describe a visual of something that once looked a certain way, that now looks like its torso has gone through a wood chipper. 

i posted that because i belive, that if a MAN were to take a .410 round , close quarters *wich is what the judge was designed for in the 1st place* to the chestplate........the next two sounds one would hear would be him hitting the ground then what is called a death rasp, the sound that comes from a humans lungs when they expell the remaining air in their lungs.

with that said, i think my statements are quite true. and anyone who honestly thinks that the judge would not be deadly close range, and truely honestly thinks that with every fiber in their being.......aim it at their beloved family pet, and squeeze one off..........if its not deadly, spot should be just fine 



remember im not saying hes not right, im just saying, yeah its deadly lol


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## wjh2657 (Jun 18, 2008)

I've got to jump in here. I am a big fan of the .410 shotgun and I own two of them. Both are single shots, but I intend to get a pump when I find one at a reasonable price. I also own 5 12s and 2 20s. The .410, with less noise and less lethality at " neighbor's house" range, has no equal as a "yard gun" for small pests . Also it is a great tool for teaching "little folks" how to shoot.

That said, with my fondness for the .410 bore, I would not consider it a handgun cartridge. To me the Judge is a "neither/nor", neither a shotgun nor a handgun, and a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

There are many fine small, light .410 shotguns out there for the yeoman duty of pest gun. For self defense, anything less than a 20 gauge is not the real manstopper you need. I have two HD shotguns and both are 12 gauge.

As far being able to kill, you can kill a man with a .22 if you place the bullet right. In self defense you are trying to _*stop*_ the BG and that takes a bit more lead, especially when he is moving, in the dark, and not showing his "best side" for you to target.

There are also far better .45LC revolvers out there, some even from Taurus, if that is the cartridge you are going to use.

It is a cute "toy" but my guns aren't toys, they are tools and each has a very delineated _working_ niche.


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## crinko (May 26, 2008)

I love mine


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

IMHO to many people still believe the street sweeper myth about shotguns and have attached it to The Judge. It just doesn't work that way. I have hunted and missed enough birds to know you have to point a shotgun in the proper direction if you intend to hit a particular target. That type pointing is also referred to as aiming whether you see the sights or not. I have also found the shorter the barrel the less effective they are.

If close enough for the Judge to work any other revolver with personal defense rated cartridges will work as well. If your target happens to be 10 feet or more away the standard revolver or SA pistols will be more effective. The objective in a self defense scenario is to stop the agressor not give him/her freckles.

The Judge was an excellent marketing move on the part of Taurus. The hype and novelty has generated a lot of business for them. I for one will stick to the more traditional point and click devices for protection duty.

If you like The Judge however, enjoy carrying it.

tumbleweed


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## mjgray (Sep 17, 2009)

*Input*

Well, my son purchased a Judge at the Houston gun show last month. We haven't had a chance to shoot it yet he is fixin to graduate in December and is doing everything he needs to to make that happen (SFA). Anyway my input is ammo. The only 45 LC I have found is at Acadamy and it is the "cowboy" loads. And when you pay $30.00 a box of 50 compaired to $9.97 for 50 9mm, its a no brainer for me, if your looking for a target gun, go with a 9mm, if you want to kill snakes, get a judge. A fellow at the range last week told the story of trying to kill snakes with a 9mm, didn't work to well from the seat of a tractor, but he had no problem with the judge and 410/000. As far as its ability to "take someone out", I hope I'm never faced with that call. Didn't have to do it for 20 years in the military and I hope that holds true now that I have become a civilian. But having done some research I have no doubt that someone coming through my door uninvited faced with five rounds of assorted lead will not meet with a very good night. Its all in what you want to do with any handgun, target shoot, hunt, or defend yourself. Anyway, just my opinion. I think it will be fun to shoot next weekend when he's home and I'll update my comment then.


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## Palmettokat (Nov 11, 2009)

Long way from any kind of gun expert. My favorite handgun is my 357 by far the one I reach for when office alarm has gone off and such. Yet after advice of a true gun expert for my wife with many reasons I will not get into he strongly suggest the Judge for her for self defense in and around the home. Based upon the few rounds of 2 1/2 6 we shot in a Judge and a few of the 45 LC it is not a 357 but as much as she can comfortable handle and does offer her the ability to shoot the snake that crawls across our land, the stray dog or such that may threaten and have the ability to stop an intruder. If some one were breaking into our house I much rather grab it than my 30-06 which surely has much more stooping power. To me much of the comments here are like a conversation I was recently in with a friend who is a very good hunter. Most people here hunt doves with 12 gage while his preferred gage is 28. He is very valid proof a well place smaller load is much more effective than a poorly place larger load of any kind.

Now if you wish to attack my thoughts do so and know I check such very very seldom so don't expect me to defend my beliefs. There is very seldom only one tool for any job and in self defense is one area where there are many variables that come into play.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Palmettokat said:


> There is very seldom only one tool for any job and in self defense is one area where there are many variables that come into play.


That is a good point, and one I have come to accept over the years, despite holding on to most of my original opinions about which guns are good or bad. A person should probably use something they are comfortable with, and have confidence in, for self defense. That is obviously how you feel about your choice, and would be one of the last to try to deny you that privilege.

I have personally always shied away from the Taurus brand, in general, preferring instead to buy something that has not received so many negative appraisals, through the years. That doesn't mean they don't make some good guns...it just means that the odds of getting a trouble-free gun seem to favor you more if you buy something that receives zero negative appraisal, or at least appears to have a very low incidence of quality control problems.

I have read and participated in several of these 'Judge discussions,' and what I come away with is this: It is not a very accurate range gun for shooting .45 Colt, and it is not a very good shotgun, because of the rifled barrel, and shooting a small gauge from a very short barrel. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit a niche in some people's self defense arsenal.

Certainly, it would be an excellent snake gun, if you didn't mind lugging it around, although I prefer to just pick up a stick, hoe, shovel, rock, etc...or better still, just walk around the snake, if there are no small children in harm's way. And it should be OK for very close quarters self defense, although I think it would be just as easy to pick up a real shotgun, if at home, or to carry a more suitable CCW, if away from home.

I will always consider it a novelty gun, but there is little doubt that it can be used for self defense in some scenarios.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Bisley said:


> ...I will always consider [the Judge] a novelty gun, but there is little doubt that it can be used for self defense *in some scenarios*. [emphasis added]


"OMG...I hear a noise downstairs! OMG, it's a burglar! Now, let's see...do I want to take my 9mm pistol, my .45, my .357 snubbie, my Mossberg 12ga, or my Judge? Decisions, decisions...which should I use?...Well, if he's in the dining room, the Judge would be OK. But if he's in the long hall, I'll need the Mossberg. And if he's in the kitchen..."
So, do we really need a "library" of weapons from which to choose? Or would it be better to become proficient with one very familiar, easy-to-use gun?
Which scenario, do you feel, would be the one to exactly suit the Judge?

(I apologize for my heavy use of irony, but your post really tickled my sarcasm bone.)


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

OP. Bought Taurus in the past, won't make that mistake again.
I do wish Ruger made something like this though. I like the idea behind the gun, I just don't like Taurus since two NIB revolvers I bought were trash out of the box.
One broke before I ever shot it. 50.00 to ship and insure the gun back to Taurus and the other started dropping frame screws while I was shooting it at the range. Another 50.00 to ship and insure. Both guns were out 5 weeks each so I was without both guns for a total of 10 weeks.
Thats 100.00 lost to sending them in for repairs and another 250.00 lost when I sold them back to the FFL when I got them back from repairs. 350.00 total loss.
Never again.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Which scenario, do you feel, would be the one to exactly suit the Judge


I'm not qualified to judge that. Ask someone who believes in them.


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## anubis (Mar 14, 2010)

*JUDGEment*

Good discussion. Was considering the Judge for HD (first firearm purchase but am thinking twice about it. Maybe a 9 or .40 - maybe a shotgun...not yet sure but will continue to read these forums and get opinions.


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## wjh2657 (Jun 18, 2008)

I own three .410 shotguns ( yeah, I bought a pretty little Mossberg 500D after my previous post. A real princess of a gun) but I would never grab one for use against a human target. The .410 is a specialized hunting gun (pests, squirrels and small birds). It is not for large animals. You need a 12 gauge or a .38 spcl/9MM or bigger handgun for two legged pests. I really see the Judge as a Hiking gun for pests and maybe something for the pot. It has a niche, but I wouldn't use it as a primary SD weapon.


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## crinko (May 26, 2008)

just picked up a public defender to go with my regular 3" judge im sure i will love both the same :smt023


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## hemmigremmie (Jan 23, 2008)

Id like to have one but even with the defender and its 2 inch barrel I think it would be a bear to carry??? (anyone carry as a ccw?).

Saying that, Id think no matter wat yer carrying and shooting anything from an intruder to a snake to a pit bull, you have 5 shots not one, so if you pull the trigger fairy quick with 5 -.410 shots, 5- .45 long or alternating both, id say there would be little left of watever you shoot. HG:smt033


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

hemmigremmie said:


> ...[Y]ou have 5 shots not one, so if you pull the trigger fairy quick with 5 -.410 shots, 5- .45 long or alternating both, id say there would be little left of watever you shoot. HG:smt033


You try it first, and then tell me about it.
I don't think you can get 'em off that fast, with a Judge. There may be a recoil-recovery problem, at least for most people.

My conjecture on this subject is that The Judge presents lots of recoil with little lethal effect.
Of course, that's just conjecture. I've never shot one.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

dosborn said:


> I have shot a Judge but have not attempted to kill anything with it. I am not a professional but from my experience with this gun and a .410 000 buck it could be very deadly. I don't know how close you would have to be but I would be confident in it protecting me from a BG 10-15 feet away. I don't think it take a dumb ass or a smart ass to figure it out.


Im with ya! I dont know what this "Judge" is suppose to be and actually could care less. I assume its some sort of pistol that has the ability to fire .410 shells..??

Lots of guys on this BB have fired many more pistol rounds than I have...because pistols arent my forte...they are protection devices MAINLY for me......but SHOTGUNS are a different story.

Ive worked on; tuned and patterned enough shotguns of various gauges ( all "upland game guns") to know for a FACT that someone that thinks you have to have a .410 pressed against someone else's skull to make it lethal hasnt been sniffing Hoppe's too long...they have been flat drinking the stuff.

Blowing anything larger than about #6 shot down the tube of a .410 CALIBER ( it really isnt a gauge even) is as useless as trying to blow marbles thru a clarinet..BUT...with the proper choke..and proper size of shot and quantity of shot, dont stand 10 feet in front of the muzzle because with the right combo the shot comes out "en' masse".....meaning one big ball of shot. 1/2 oz of lead at 1200-1400 FPS is just that...dont matter if its from a 460 Rowland or a 410 shotgun.

Of course with #7 1/2 shot at 1200-1400 fps and a choke such as Skeet #1 or even Improve Cylinder at 30-35 FEET it will disperse and throw a great looking quail killing pattern...especially over dogs on point.

Now was the gentleman who brought up the "lethal weapon" comment leaning too heavy on the "lethal" part....sure...but so called "experts" should be experts on BOTH SIDES before they profess what is what


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## hemmigremmie (Jan 23, 2008)

I heard the Judge was gettin a new self defense round. Its a 410 caseing with three balls equal to .38 caliber thats going to shoot out in a nice self defense pattern???? Now thats only wat I heard. HG


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Sully2 said:


> Blowing anything larger than about #6 shot down the tube of a .410 CALIBER ( it really isnt a gauge even) is as useless as trying to blow marbles thru a clarinet..BUT...with the proper choke..and proper size of shot and quantity of shot, *dont stand 10 feet in front of the muzzle* because with the right combo the shot comes out "en' masse".....meaning one big ball of shot. 1/2 oz of lead at 1200-1400 FPS is just that...dont matter if its from a 460 Rowland or a 410 shotgun.


I don't claim to be anything approaching an expert, but I'm guessing that ten feet is probably getting pretty close to the maximum _lethal_ range of the judge, firing .410 shotgun shells. Since it also shoots .45 Colt, the barrel can have no choke, whatsoever, and it is rifled, which tends to cause a doughnut shaped pattern - not so bad for SD, up very close, but not so good at greater distances.

I have done some pattern testing with my 20 gauge 870 pump, with a 20" rifled barrel, and the shot pattern with No. 3 buck shot is less than impressive, past about 8-10 yards, due to the pattern spreading wide, and erratically with the rifled barrel. Yes, it would _probably_ stop an attack, but it is not a certainty, by any means, against a worst-case type of bad guy.

Based on that, I don't see much advantage to a big, heavy, revolver that fires a thimble full of shot through a rifled 2" barrel. Granted, if I was on the receiving end, it would strike fear into my heart, but I wouldn't want to have to depend on it against a drug zombie that has no fear and feels no pain. Since we don't get to select our antagonists, that is one of the BG types we need to be prepared for, so I'm going to pass on the Judge.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I believe most of you are correct about lack of distance for "stopping" shots.

But let's be fair - this is a self protection gun *Meant* to be used in a bedroom (i.e. close up) - car jacking ... etc.

No one thinks it a target / distance gun. At least I hope not :mrgreen:

With in 10' to 15' (bedroom) it would hurt like hell to get shot with bird shot or 000 buck and certainly by .45 Long Colt .

I believe it will do like it's designed to do - and lots of buyers agree ...

Kkinda like the Ruger LCP is a specialized weapon and it is one of the hottest selling guns in the past 2 years.

Just my .02 -

:smt1099


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

dondavis3 said:


> Kkinda like the Ruger LCP is a specialized weapon and it is one of the hottest selling guns in the past 2 years.


The same reason does account for high sales for both of these guns - buyer ignorance. Don't get me wrong...there _are_ niches in a person's self-defense 'line-up' that can probably be filled well enough by both of these guns. I have an LCP because it is better than nothing at all, for the times I can't have anything else. I dread the thought of maybe having to use it to protect myself or loved ones, but not as much as I dread the thought of having nothing.

But a lot of these types of guns are purchased by people who think they are a lot more useful, or versatile, than they really are. While I have found something the LCP can do for me that my other guns cannot, I have yet to find such a use for a Judge, personally.

Maybe I should stop being so narrow-minded and just buy one on the chance that I would enjoy playing with it. :numbchuck:


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Well...I broke down and went and looked up "The Judge"..Why? Beats hell out of me...:mrgreen:

But IMHO...that "thing" is about as useful as a rubber crutch!

Reading comments as ..."The Judge becomes better suited for solving social disputes of the most unfriendly kind. I see this as an ideal weapon to keep on the car seat to quickly resolve an attempted car-jacking. When a punk jerks the car door open, a face full of number four shot should rapidly dissuade the social misfit from wanting anything to do with your car, and should also render him unable to pass the eye exam for a driver's license for the rest of his miserable life."

Well..I dont know what states you guys live in...but here in Ohio....you get caught with a loaded firearm...within reach of the driver...and uncased...even if you DO have a concealed permit....your going to be spending some serious time before the Judge ( the LEGAL judge)

Frankly..if I had MY choice of this or some other weapon....Id take the other weapon even if it was a sharp stick!


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## Ledgehammer (Dec 12, 2009)

In Florida if you have your ccp you can have your gun loaded in the seat next to you or anywhere else in your car for that matter. Thanks to the castle doctrine. I mean what good is an unloaded gun going to do you anyway? I rather not carry at all,unless you want to pistol whip your attacker.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Ledgehammer said:


> In Florida if you have your ccp you can have your gun loaded in the seat next to you or anywhere else in your car for that matter. Thanks to the castle doctrine. I mean what good is an unloaded gun going to do you anyway? I rather not carry at all,unless you want to pistol whip your attacker.


Ohio doesnt want anyone to be able to reach over "almost" unseen and get a weapon to be used to shoot a patrolman when he approaches. Ohio is kinda tough on that fact...but its also why you have to take a CCW course for 12 hours as compared to giving the state $40 and 2 thumb prints as SOME states do for a CCW.....:smt033


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Sully2 said:


> Ohio doesnt want anyone to be able to reach over "almost" unseen and get a weapon to be used to shoot a patrolman when he approaches. Ohio is kinda tough on that fact...but its also why you have to take a CCW course for 12 hours as compared to giving the state $40 and 2 thumb prints as SOME states do for a CCW.....:smt033


Well, that law must be really frustrating for a cop-killer, since it makes it against the law for him to have his gun at the ready. There's just no telling how many LEO's have been saved by this brilliant piece of legislation.


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## Ledgehammer (Dec 12, 2009)

Agreed that's the silliest piece of legislation I've heard of - we all know how cop killers play by the rules right? Trust me I don't ride with my gun in the seat - if you get pulled over that will get you killed. I can get to it easily though if needed. And it's loaded - I had a cop ask me if it was loaded one day and I said yeah. He said good - it won't do you no good unloaded. 

I got the latest edition of rifleman in the mail and they had the .410 self defense shells in it made by Winchester. 

3 disc shoot out and I think like 9 pellets. It says right in the add it's made for shotguns or the Taurus Judge. Lol


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Bisley said:


> Well, that law must be really frustrating for a cop-killer, since it makes it against the law for him to have his gun at the ready. There's just no telling how many LEO's have been saved by this brilliant piece of legislation.


Take it up with the people in Columbus. I just follow the laws...I dont make them!

But right offhand Id have to say it must do something for the betterment...since the same principal has been in effect for "long guns" for MORE than 60 years!

NO loaded firearms within reach of the driver; if loaded it must be either locked away; cased or out of possible reach ( such as in the trunk)


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Ledgehammer said:


> Agreed that's the silliest piece of legislation I've heard of - we all know how cop killers play by the rules right? Trust me I don't ride with my gun in the seat - if you get pulled over that will get you killed. I can get to it easily though if needed. And it's loaded - I had a cop ask me if it was loaded one day and I said yeah. He said good - it won't do you no good unloaded.
> 
> I got the latest edition of rifleman in the mail and they had the .410 self defense shells in it made by Winchester.
> 
> 3 disc shoot out and I think like 9 pellets. It says right in the add it's made for shotguns or the Taurus Judge. Lol


Oh...so living in Florida and having your CCW and riding around with a loaded weapon on the seat besde you is INTELLIGENT???

What state do you live in so we can find some assinine ( in other people opinions) laws they have...probably somewhere there is a law that brothers and sisters cant marry...but it seems some broke that law also.!!!



> In Florida if you have your ccp you can have your gun loaded in the seat next to you or anywhere else in your car for that matter. Thanks to the castle doctrine. I mean what good is an unloaded gun going to do you anyway? I rather not carry at all,unless you want to pistol whip your attacker.


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## Ledgehammer (Dec 12, 2009)

> Oh...so living in Florida and having your CCW and riding around with a loaded weapon on the seat besde you is INTELLIGENT???


First of all - nobody said it was intelligent, and nobody said they did that. In fact I said it was a good way to get shot if you do happen to get pulled over by LE. A little common sense here. Ok Ohio?



> What state do you live in so we can find some assinine ( in other people opinions) laws they have...probably somewhere there is a law that brothers and sisters cant marry...but it seems some broke that law also.!!!


Most people with a shred of common sense would be able to ascertain that I live in Florida from my above post. Unfortunately it appears common sense waived bye bye to you a long time ago. No need to get in to personal attacks here. I guess I would get worked up too if I was busted not knowing WTF I was talking about. Since you seem to be a little ignorant on the the carry laws of your home state of Ohio I'll post a fragement here so you don't get in trouble in the future.

You need to realize - you just got owned with 5 seconds of internet research on your state. HA!* There is nothing in your states general law that indicates the gun must be unloaded. *and there never was.



> An Ohio CCW license does not allow totally unfettered carry. Any owner of private property can ban concealed handguns by posting a sign in clear view, and most government buildings are off-limits as well as hospitals and schools and most religious places as long as they are clearly marked (to be clearly marked, you MUST have a sign clearly posted by your entrances). Ohio statute ORC 2923.16 allows for three ways for a licensee to carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle (which includes motorcycles):
> 
> *In a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun;[200]
> In a closed glove compartment or console, or in a case that is locked;[200]
> ...


have a good one :buttkick:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

A) Stop the pissing contest

&

B) Get back to the topic

or

C) Thread done


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

The comment about weapons being unloaded and the action being open or locked away so that a driver cant get at them was in reference to LONG GUNS...and its only been printed on every data sheet included with a hunting license for at least the last 50 uears


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 Todd

I am on this forum just because you do not allow personal attacks at all.

I used to visit another forum where you were afraid to ask any question because would jump on anything you said.

I'm glad you watch out for this. :smt033


:smt1099


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Todd said:


> A) Stop the pissing contest
> 
> &
> 
> ...


I wasn't kidding and it wasn't a "suggestion".


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