# laser grips and self defense



## grizz5675

I recently finished my carry and conceal class and when we went out to the range a thought entered my mind,The gun companies as well as companies like crimson trace are putting out advertisements on using lasers for self defense,but im thinking in a self defense scenario a laser can only slow me down since my objective would be point and shoot to center of mass .Trying to put the red light bead onto a BG would only slow me down. Any thoughts on the matter ? Agree or disagree? why?


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## Guest

grizz5675 said:


> I recently finished my carry and conceal class and when we went out to the range a thought entered my mind,The gun companies as well as companies like crimson trace are putting out advertisements on using lasers for self defense,but im thinking in a self defense scenario a laser can only slow me down since my objective would be point and shoot to center of mass .Trying to put the red light bead onto a BG would only slow me down. Any thoughts on the matter ? Agree or disagree? why?


I've never really had much interest in the whole laser grip thing... In a self defense scenario I don't see it's purpose... but that's just me...


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## DennyCrane

If you had time to use your sights in a self defense situation, the laser would be faster to use than leveling the sights. U can fire from the waste, or while the gun is still coming up to eye level.

One should not rely on ONLY lasers when shooting at the range. You should learn to shoot both with and without. But, it could theoritically give you a slight speed advantage. And, it may be a bit more accurate than just general pointing of the gun.

I am sure someone will throw in the intimidation factor, but I think this would only enter into it if you were holding a perp at gun point while you waited for police to arrive.

That being said, as JS stated above, I am not a big laser fan either.


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## grizz5675

.......thanks for the imput......., i believe im not going to be purchasing lasers in the near future unless i go almost blind or something like that.


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## Guest

DennyCrane said:


> If you had time


To me, that's the key point... Time.


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## spacedoggy

Every gun I've held with a laser on it does not line up with the sites. If you line it up for ten feet then at 20 it's way off. I keep away from them for that reason. I think Hollywood made everyone want one.


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## DennyCrane

Yes, it will only be accurate at the distance that you set it to be. Closer or furtehr away, it will be off by a few inches. I imagine, the difference will not be that big of a deal, however. Only if you are way up close or way far away.

I had one before and set it for about 7 yards.


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## spacedoggy

I don't aim at seven yards I point and shoot.


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## grizz5675

I guess lasers just seem to be a cool thing to do and dont have much real value to them,so maybe i'll be happy with a tactical light at least it would help me to not trip and fall in the middle of the night while chasing away a BG. :twisted: :shock:


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## Shipwreck

Well, I have thought about buying the new Glock laser grip, but I think I will pass. If you can afford it, it is a kewl toy.


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## scooter

*Laser grips.........*

Having used mine for a couple of years now I disagree with most about slowing you down!With moderate practice it has drastically reduced my on target times "in low light conditions",that being said I do use Iron sights almost exclusively during daylight hours.They are another VERY useful tool if you decide to buy them AND practice with them. The new generation lasergrips are almost all activated buy squeezing the grip andits easy to learn to grip lightly,the laser is off...strong grip to shoot and the laser is on.After setting zero at 50 feet your laser will be 1inch low right of POI at 10 feet and 1 inch high left of POI at 90-100 feet.You will still DEFINATELY hit COM ...... if you're not shaking too much :-D And by the way the laser WILL show you just how much you are shaking :wink:


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## grizz5675

Give this a try ,the next time your at the range with a freind have your freind touch your right shoulder then with *laser on* see how far he can run before you unload 5 shots in center of mass after he says shoot:then try the same thing with *no* laser, shooting for center of mass again and i'd be willing to bet he runs farther with the laser on.


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## Shipwreck

grizz5675 said:


> Give this a try ,the next time your at the range with a freind have your freind touch your right shoulder then with *laser on* see how far he can run before you unload 5 shots in center of mass after he says shoot:then try the same thing with *no* laser, shooting for center of mass again and i'd be willing to bet he runs farther with the laser on.


U try it and tell us how it goes


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## Destro

I have a set of Crimson Trace grips on my Taurus 605 and for what it is worth I really feel that the laser makes a 2'' revolver a bit more formittable, expecially in low light. In the dark its point & shoot anyway but with the laser its more point and hit. Plus the laser may intimidate the BG enough if he see's that dot on his chest that he runs away in fear. Saving me money in lawyer fee's.


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## grizz5675

Shipwreck...I dont have access to a laser right now but i would try it if i had one,I was trying to point out that anything other then pulling your gun and shooting at a BGs P.O.M will only distract you and slow you down at least a little.I have done the same thing only with using the sights and not using the sightsat 21 feet,when not using the sights most of the BGs would not make it to the shooter by the time the shooter popped off at least two shots, when using the sights the BG would almost always get to the shooter before he could pop one off.


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## scooter

I give up...I still find it utterly amazing how someone who hasnt tried something(for more than 20 seconds)can make an unarguable statement about how ineffective/useless something is an its supposed to be taken as a fact from above. :?: :?: :?:


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## Mike Barham

I have them on both my Glocks, and had them on the 1911 and J-frame I used before I went to the Dark Side. I find them very effective when used in realistic - as opposed to square range - defensive shooting. They are especially useful when shooting on the move and in low light.

If you haven't used them in dynamic shooting (box drills, snakes, scenarios, etc.), you really can't grasp how well they work. Just standing there on a square range and shooting with lasers doesn't really tell you anything about them, or any other kind of defensive shooting for that matter. It's too bad they are illegal in IDPA; that might be a good proving ground for them.

I see the arguments made here against lasers are similar to those made against "flash sight picture" defensive shooting. The laser, like the sights, are not used to "aim" the gun; rather, they are used to confirm an alignment that the practiced body has already made. When engaging targets at high speed while moving, the laser gives the shooter instant feedback about how his movement is affecting the gun's alignment.

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## Guest

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> I have them on both my Glocks, and had them on the 1911 and J-frame I used before I went to the Dark Side. I find them very effective when used in realistic - as opposed to square range - defensive shooting. They are especially useful when shooting on the move and in low light.
> 
> If you haven't used them in dynamic shooting (box drills, snakes, scenarios, etc.), you really can't grasp how well they work. Just standing there on a square range and shooting with lasers doesn't really tell you anything about them, or any other kind of defensive shooting for that matter. It's too bad they are illegal in IDPA; that might be a good proving ground for them.
> 
> I see the arguments made here against lasers are similar to those made against "flash sight picture" defensive shooting. The laser, like the sights, are not used to "aim" the gun; rather, they are used to confirm an alignment that the practiced body has already made. When engaging targets at high speed while moving, the laser gives the shooter instant feedback about how his movement is affecting the gun's alignment.


All good points...


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## Hal8000

Anything that can help, should not hurt! 
If it gives you an edge, it may be that edge that proclaims you the winner!

However, I would not want to primarily depend on a battery operated, electronic device for defense purposes. It must augment your already fine honed personal protection tactics, or you'll fine your self depending on a device and not your self...


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## grizz5675

scooter ,I was not giving advice i was on the contrary looking for a positive reason to perhaps give me a reason to buy a set of laser grips.By me giving my negative viewpoint i figure someone may give me their positive viewpoint,which is what mike from galco did very nicely.Because of mike's statement i am now 2nd guessing myself and may very well purchase a laser.The m-6 with the sig equinox 45 acp is looking good.


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## scooter

grizz5675 said:


> scooter ,I was not giving advice i was on the contrary looking for a positive reason to perhaps give me a reason to buy a set of laser grips.By me giving my negative viewpoint i figure someone may give me their positive viewpoint,which is what mike from galco did very nicely.Because of mike's statement i am now 2nd guessing myself and may very well purchase a laser.The m-6 with the sig equinox 45 acp is looking good.


After re-reading my own post I guess I came off sounding kinda terse,That was not my intent. I have had my grips and given myself TIME to get good with and without using them and with practice most people will find them an invaluable tool on a darkstreet some nite. I just get frustrated when someone who hasnt given them a fair amount of time, to prove that, starts dismissing them as toys. Sorry


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## grizz5675

no problem scooter , I understand the feeling some people just seem to come across like they know everything about everything......have a good one.


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## scooter

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> I have them on both my Glocks, and had them on the 1911 and J-frame I used before I went to the Dark Side. I find them very effective when used in realistic - as opposed to square range - defensive shooting. They are especially useful when shooting on the move and in low light.
> 
> If you haven't used them in dynamic shooting (box drills, snakes, scenarios, etc.), you really can't grasp how well they work. Just standing there on a square range and shooting with lasers doesn't really tell you anything about them, or any other kind of defensive shooting for that matter. It's too bad they are illegal in IDPA; that might be a good proving ground for them.
> 
> I see the arguments made here against lasers are similar to those made against "flash sight picture" defensive shooting. The laser, like the sights, are not used to "aim" the gun; rather, they are used to confirm an alignment that the practiced body has already made. When engaging targets at high speed while moving, the laser gives the shooter instant feedback about how his movement is affecting the gun's alignment.


Want to add one more bit,I am a "retired" LEO and under stress and the massive adrenalinerush you get try ,just try,to focus on your sights....Your eyes will not want to leave the threat or let it get out of focus,at least mine wont!! :!: And guess where the red dot is ,right , right on the BG's COM where it can be seen w/o adjusting your focus


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## Guest

I have always wondered if I should have gotten some of them laser grips for my security six. I know they make them for that model. I'm just not all that much of a fan of lasers unless i'm using one of them laser bore sighters to site in a rifle with a new scope. I think I would much rather prefer glow in the dark sights.


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## Mike Barham

Maser said:


> I think I would much rather prefer glow in the dark sights.


I have both tritium night sights and lasers on both my Glocks. It's not an either/or. They compliment each other.



> the massive adrenalinerush you get try ,just try,to focus on your sights


Not true for everyone, though. I think it was Jim Cirillo (but it might have been Bill Allard) of the NYPD Stakeout Squad, probably the most experienced police gunfighter of modern times, who was once asked how he survived his dozen or so firefights. His reply was, "My front sight has twelve striations on it." Some people report seeing their sights clearly in a fight. Others don't see them at all. Still others don't remember.

Remember again that in sighted defensive shooting, we are not "aiming" the pistol, but simply verifying that our body has already aligned it.



> I would not want to primarily depend on a battery operated, electronic device for defense purposes


I don't think it's a big deal anymore. The whole US military runs on batteries, including the M68 Close Combat Optic (aka Aimpoint) in very wide issue with the Army. They don't seem to have issues with it, and they get in a lot more fights than anyone posting on this board. Periodically changing batteries seems like a small price to pay for the advantages the laser sight gives. Same goes for the Aimpoint on my M4gery and the Surefire flashlight I carry.

Besides, even if the laser croaks, I still have the tritium sights on the pistol, just like I have BUIS on my M4.

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## grizz5675

Ive'got to say iv'e seen the modern arms tv shows and the new weapons they have ,I am not that educated anymore about military weapons but it seems to me that a good high powered scope would have a place deemed more necessary for the military, in things like sniper fire.Maybe im to old and naieve but i dont see where the military would have a high priority use for lasers.In my day i was a 60 gunner in a blackhawk and it was all about air superiority and fire power,.... I dont know maybe things have changed that much.Guess maybe i'm getting old.


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## Mike Barham

grizz5675 said:


> Ive'got to say iv'e seen the modern arms tv shows and the new weapons they have...dont see where the military would have a high priority use for lasers.In my day i was a 60 gunner in a blackhawk and it was all about air superiority and fire power,.... I dont know maybe things have changed that much.


Thank you for your service.

The M68/CCO isn't a laser, it's an extremely durable red dot sight. Quite simply, it allows you to make better hits faster than with iron sights. This is important to ground troops in a war where collateral damage has to be absolutely minimized, and high-volume firefights are commonplace. Close air support often can't be used effectively in an urban battlefield, at least not if you care about non-combatants. Accurate shooting with M4/M16/M249/M240 is what carries the day in many firefights.

The PEQ-2 and PEQ-4 are small arms lasers that are used in conjunction with night vision devices. I was able to make 200 meter hits in total darkness firing an M16A2 FROM THE HIP on pop-up targets at a military range at Fort Dix, NJ. We own the night! Our opponents have nothing like this, so we can smack them around in the dark in relative safety.

Snipers and squad Designated Marksmen are different. True snipers use scopes rather than red dots, and I believe the DM rifles use an ACOG variant.

Laser sights on pistols are fairly popular in the war zone (to the point where the Army recently issued a stupid directive to ban them). Soldiers generally get very poor pistol training, and a laser sight does help a novice shoot better. I did a little experiment at the range recently, where I let a former Marine (an Iraq vet) shoot my Glock 17 with lasergrip. He's a pistol novice, but shot great in dynamic scenarios. Then I taped over the laser diode; his performance plummeted. In a world where guys deploy to combat zones with a couple of hours of substandard pistol training, I think a laser sight would be quite helpful.

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## grizz5675

thanks for the informative reply mike sounds like you know your military weaponry are you recent prior military?I can see now by your info why it is important to have lasers in the military .Being in a civilian populated area in a city in Iraq I guess total supressive fire wouldn't be a good thing and we need to pick out the BGs like weeds and take them out one by one.


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## Mike Barham

grizz5675 said:


> thanks for the informative reply mike sounds like you know your military weaponry are you recent prior military?I can see now by your info why it is important to have lasers in the military .Being in a civilian populated area in a city in Iraq I guess total supressive fire wouldn't be a good thing and we need to pick out the BGs like weeds and take them out one by one.


I'm currently in the National Guard. Former airborne infantry, now just a REMF armorer! But I also need to keep up on this stuff because of my civilian job at Galco, where I do some R&D.

Precise shooting is important in the current war. It minimizes collateral damage in Iraq, and enables long-range hits in Afghanistan. Lasers and red dots and ACOGS help our guys shoot better. Why not give them anything that helps, even if we have to give them lots of batteries, too? Unfortunately, the Army is pretty conservative when it comes to such things, and also remember that the Army is rather politically correct and basically afraid of weapons.

I like your analogy about picking off the bad guys like weeds! :-D Unfortunately, they seem to grow faster than we can pick them off.

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## grizz5675

LOL , Mike I think we need some -tactical red dot- heat seeking-BG laser-weed killer.OK enough of that,it is damn nice that we own the night but i would like to see some advancement in laser tech maybe internal laser that would actually be a part of the weapon and not an attachment.I definatly agree with you that our guys in Iraq deserve only the best.


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## Thor

LaserMax's are internal, however, I've heard of some problems with them.


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## -gunut-

Has anyone ever tried simunitions? If you have not you would be surprised on how different it is from the range. When you have people moving towards you with rifles and pistols with light and laser it is very intimidating! It makes it very hard to get a site picture because the sites are not your main focus. In this kind of situation I can see where a laser would come in handy. Especially when you are trying to shoot from cover and have to alignt the gun with your target under fire!


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## grizz5675

you dont use sites when shooting for self defense anyway.You shoot at body of mass without sites.


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## propellerhead

Lasers are good when you have the BG down on the floor while you wait for the cops to show up. It will let you keep a better picture of what's around you. You don't have to look through your sights the whole time.


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## Mike Barham

grizz5675 said:


> you dont use sites when shooting for self defense anyway.You shoot at body of mass without sites.


Well, YOU may not use the sights. Not everyone shares that philosophy. Modern thinking is that there are different levels of sight awareness depending on the distance to the target. At contact distance, of course you don't use the sights. But if you have to shoot at ten yards, you may need a more refined way to index the pistol than simply pointing it, whether a laser or conventional sights.

One of the most experienced gunfighters of modern times, a veteran of many shootouts as a member of the NYPD Stakeout Squad, was once asked the secret to his success in multiple street shootings. His reply was, "My front sight has twelve striations in it." Additionally, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, ASAA, etc. can all produce students who report seeing their sights clearly in gunfights. One student of Chuck Taylor, working as a narcotics agent, put down four armed bad guys with four rounds of .45 ACP using the sights. So, clearly, not every successful gunfight victor simply thrusts the gun at center mass and pulls the trigger.

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## jwkimber45

grizz5675 said:


> you dont use sites when shooting for self defense anyway.You shoot at body of mass without sites.


    

At 'point blank' range, maybe. ANything beyond that, you bet your butt I'm focused on front sight.


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## grizz5675

I wouldn't use the sights on anything other then beyond 25 feet or better,I consistantly practise point and shoot for center mass at 25 feet .


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## -gunut-

grizz5675 said:


> you dont use sites when shooting for self defense anyway.You shoot at body of mass without sites.


Uh...I am not sure what kind of training you do but the BG better be pretty damn close


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## -gunut-

grizz5675 said:


> I wouldn't use the sights on anything other then beyond 25 feet or better,I consistantly practise point and shoot for center mass at 25 feet .


Do you think that will work ok if the guy is moving and shooting back? Not trying to be rude or anything. From what I have experienced it really doesnt work to well. The only way I can get hits on someone is if I use the sites.


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## Shipwreck

In a likely scenario, depending on the situation, U may be lucky to even get the gun out. Chances are, U may not have time to use the sights. In Many police shooting videos I have seen (where an officer returns fire), aiming using the sights isn't feasable - Remember too - when someone starts shooting at you and you try to draw your gun and return fire, you won't be super levelheaded.


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## Destro

All in all I have a Laser because I want every possible advantage. I also want a M-4 or equivilent with me all the time but thats not possible. So I choose to have a laser because it might be just the advantage that it takes to win. And if you have not seen a laser in low light then you have no clue.


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## grizz5675

gunut ,i cant go to where you live but i wish i could show you the advantage of point and shoot over using your sights ,at 25 feet we could set up bowling pins, I would use a gun with no sights you could pick any other gun with sights as long as the guns are both the same cap.mags. and i can promise if you use the your sights ,i would smoke you in a shootout.Im not bragging it's just a fact.You asked about my experience: I have 40 years of shooting experience ,four years military training and defensive shooting by two certified NRA instructors.I can hit a 4inch balloon at 100 yards with a 45 acp with no bench rest.I dont mean to sound like im the worlds best shot but i can hold my own and have learned a few tricks in my time.If you were ever to make it to minnesota i'd be glad to give you a demonstration.


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## Shipwreck

Well, I do practice occassionally w/ doubletaps and not aiming. But, I don't do that at 7 yards usually. I try it at 5 on occassion.


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## -gunut-

grizz5675 said:


> gunut ,i cant go to where you live but i wish i could show you the advantage of point and shoot over using your sights ,at 25 feet we could set up bowling pins, I would use a gun with no sights you could pick any other gun with sights as long as the guns are both the same cap.mags. and i can promise if you use the your sights ,i would smoke you in a shootout.Im not bragging it's just a fact.You asked about my experience: I have 40 years of shooting experience ,four years military training and defensive shooting by two certified NRA instructors.I can hit a 4inch balloon at 100 yards with a 45 acp with no bench rest.I dont mean to sound like im the worlds best shot but i can hold my own and have learned a few tricks in my time.If you were ever to make it to minnesota i'd be glad to give you a demonstration.


That would be nice! If I am ever in the neighborhood I will give you a call!  I was just wondering if you have ever done any shooting things like simunitions? Where are actually shooting against people that are shooting back. I try to get out and shoot once a week and I thought I would do fairly well but when we got in the shoot-out and I had a number of people coming at me, shooting without aiming was useless. In the end I think I made a few hits on a shield and one hit to a guys vest. When I used the sites I was able to do much better but nothing like I though I would do. This could be just me though. I am just saying that opened my eyes. It is hard to make good hits. Especially when you have just been flash banged :?


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## grizz5675

Gunut, I wont get into the specifics but i have been shot at 3 different times as a civilian and had livefire exercises while in the military and im not talking simulated. I know how hard it is to not use your sites but it is without a doubt the fastest way to defend against a BG when your within a closer distance about 25 yards or closer when shooting for centermass.There is also a legal aspect if you were to have to shoot somebody in self defense that has to do with you image and i just thought i would let you know that your forum name ;GUNUT, could possibly be trouble for you in the future....example ,someone breaks into your home and you are forced to shoot ,it ends up in court and the investagating officers introduce to the jury the fact that your forum name is Gunut ...how does that look to the people on the jury.The computor is one of the first things they look at when making an investagation.But now im getting off topic and will say see ya for now.


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## -gunut-

grizz5675 said:


> Gunut, I wont get into the specifics but i have been shot at 3 different times as a civilian and had livefire exercises while in the military and im not talking simulated. I know how hard it is to not use your sites but it is without a doubt the fastest way to defend against a BG when your within a closer distance about 25 yards or closer when shooting for centermass.There is also a legal aspect if you were to have to shoot somebody in self defense that has to do with you image and i just thought i would let you know that your forum name ;GUNUT, could possibly be trouble for you in the future....example ,someone breaks into your home and you are forced to shoot ,it ends up in court and the investagating officers introduce to the jury the fact that your forum name is Gunut ...how does that look to the people on the jury.The computor is one of the first things they look at when making an investagation.But now im getting off topic and will say see ya for now.


That is intesting! You have really got to piss people off wherever it is that you live if you have had to use your carry piece 3 times! I guess my sites work for me and if they do not work as well for you than you just go with what does. I am in no hurry to go out and shoot anyone but if somone was in my house with a gun in my face; reguardless of my online name I think I would be ok in court. (Knock on wood)  Interesting stuff none the less!


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## grizz5675

I didnt say i had to use my self defense gun three times i said iv'e been shot at three different times and all three times were not at my home they were one-in a tow truck three shots fired thrugh my windshield ...two- on hennepin avenue in minneapolis minnesota i inadvertantly stepped into the line of fire between two police officers and a BG while the BG was running from a robery and three from an old man who wasn't all quite there who chased me with his shotgun.But as far as the self defense thing go's your right what ever makes you happy is the way to go,I just thought i'd try to pass some shooting knowledge along to someone who may possibly learn from it.Where im from many people know im a avid shooter so they ask me questions.I dont mean by any means to ram my advice down anyones throat so please dont feel offended, anyway bye for now and happy shooting.


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## -gunut-

grizz5675 said:


> I didnt say i had to use my self defense gun three times i said iv'e been shot at three different times and all three times were not at my home they were one-in a tow truck three shots fired thrugh my windshield ...two- on hennepin avenue in minneapolis minnesota i inadvertantly stepped into the line of fire between two police officers and a BG while the BG was running from a robery and three from an old man who wasn't all quite there who chased me with his shotgun.But as far as the self defense thing go's your right what ever makes you happy is the way to go,I just thought i'd try to pass some shooting knowledge along to someone who may possibly learn from it.Where im from many people know im a avid shooter so they ask me questions.I dont mean by any means to ram my advice down anyones throat so please dont feel offended, anyway bye for now and happy shooting.


I do not feel offended at all! I am on these sites to learn and to share some of the things that I have picked up with other people. I appreciate your advice very much!


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## Baldy

*My 2ct's*

I carry a SP101 with Crimsom Laser Sites on it. I been shooting all my life. No shoot outs or formal traning of any kind. I started to have trouble hitting the bullseye at around 15 to 25 feet. These glasses I wear are about useless for shooting. I started practing with this laser and it helped me get back on target. Then I got to thinking about home defese and it giving BG a target to shoot at. So I started practing shooting with what I call laser control. By turning it on and off at will. I am getting better and better at it. If your going to use them it's like anything else you have to practice. I think that is what gives us all the upper hand on a bad guy is we practice and they don't. :idea:


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## MMMike

I think lasers have their place, But for home defence I have to agree withe Baldy that you are giving the BG a target to shoot at. Same with Tactical Lights.

I use one during some dry-fire exercises to improve my trigger pull.


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## Mike Barham

MMMike said:


> ...for home defence I have to agree withe Baldy that you are giving the BG a target to shoot at. Same with Tactical Lights.


I'm not sure I understand your post. How do you intend to identify your target? If it is so dark that the white light will give away your totally concealed position, how will you ID the target before firing? If it is not that dark, the home invader will be able to see you as well as you can see him.

Not that lasers are used for target ID, but "tactical lights" are a separate issue.

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## Shipwreck

Well, I like the knowledge that I have a tac light on my bedside gun. I may or may not use it, depending on the situation. I could probably use the light as a semi-rough laser type of aimer, as if I just pointed and shot w/o using the sights, I know approx where the bullet will go because of the way the light cone is shaped in the middle. So, that has an advantage too..

But, will I ever need it? I don't know. Will there be times where the use of such a light may be a bad idea? Sure. But, I like having it anyway, depending on the situation.


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## MMMike

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> How do you intend to identify your target?


Everyone's situation is different. In my case it is never totally dark (suburbia/streetlights). Only myself and Mrs. MMMike in the house 99.9% of the time at night. Our plan has us taking cover behind the bed, me with the gun, her with the cellphone, being as still and quiet as possible. Any figure in my house is the target, BG moving, me and wife not. I would see him before he saw me. Any light or laser would give away my position. The first light the BG will see is the flash of my first COM shot.

I guess in other situations a laser can be an assett. Everyone should come up with their own plan and try to think of every possible scenario. My conclusion was that "no lights or lasers" was the right choice for me in my current home.

 Be safe... have fun...in that order.


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## mhammer3333

The Lasermax on my Glock 23 seems to be accurate enough in close quarters. I agree with MMMike that everyone's situation is different. If someone walked into my house my dogs are my 1st defense, small little fluffy things but real barky. If BG has the balls to still come in, I have enough time to turn the laser on and point it down the stairs without exposing enough for him to have a good target to hit. In most cases I would think if a BG knows you know he is in the house and you have a firearm (the laser pointed in his general area), he can find an easier place to take down. I think the laser definitely has the intimidation factor...


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## grizz5675

one would think that the bang of the round being fired would be enough to deter a bg .Still not dissing lasers but then again if im in a bad situation im going to fire a warning shot,im not a police officer so i dont have to account for every round fired.


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## Shipwreck

grizz5675 said:


> one would think that the bang of the round being fired would be enough to deter a bg .Still not dissing lasers but then again if im in a bad situation im going to fire a warning shot,im not a police officer so i dont have to account for every round fired.


Oh, man, I don't know where to start.

U NEVER fire a warning shot...

1 - it is too dangerous to yourself, and anyone else around U. The bullet must go somewhere. Even into the ground - it it hits cement, it's gonna bounce and go someplace else (if U are inside, this will happen after it hits the cement slab). 2 - If U did hit the bad guy on your warning shot, and U state this to the cop - U are in some serious doo doo... U do NOT want to say you hit the bad guy by accident.

U fire the gun if U have to in order to stop the threat. U do not fire a warning shot.


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## MMMike

Shipwreck said:


> U NEVER fire a warning shot...
> 
> U fire the gun if U have to in order to stop the threat. U do not fire a warning shot.


+++++++
If you feel you are threatened, shoot at COM. Repeat as nessesary until threat is stopped.
ALL you say to the cops is that you were in fear for your life and that of your family. Call a lawyer.
There may be some hassle, but it's alot better than being dead.


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## grizz5675

ok , I know of a few different cases where a warning shot was fired and it defused the situation.One when a buddy of mine had a bg breaking into his home in the early morning hours,my freind ran out of his house and fired his 45 auto 3 times into the ground the bg got out of there fast.One was myself and thank God i fired a warning shot ,in the middle of the night i heard someone in my backyard messing around with the side of my house i grabbed my 357mag (gp100) and went outside ,Walked around the corner of my house and in tha dark someone came at me ,i fired a couple of shots and the bg quickly revealed himself.....it was my brother let me tell you im glad i didnt shoot for c.o.m that time.


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## scooter

If you're in the city limits you're beggin for a DFCL (discharge of a firearm in city limits)ticket and (in some areas) after a couple of those jailtime.Better to announce you're armed and be READY to shoot if neccessary.


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## Shipwreck

I must say that I believe a warning shot is bad news. They also teach this to the police. 

And I can assure you that if you accidentally hit someone during a warning shot, you are super opening yourself to prosecution and being sued. U better not tell them it was a warning shot.


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