# LCP and hollow points?



## Mik

Hello all. Just recently got a new LCP, haven't had a chance to fire it much and am interested in knowing if anyone knows of any defense ammo that doesn't works well with it. I've only fired round point target ammo through it so far and it did fine. Noticed this morning that when I loaded it with hollow points and just racked the slide to expel the bullets, they jammed before actually going into the chamber. Is this a good test? I tried Gold Dot, FMJ and Aguila ammo and all did about the same. Have read a lot of good reveiws on the gun from dealers and pros. but I figured I'd ask real folks and get the best info. :smt023 Thanks


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## Pistolero

The LCP is very similar to the Kel-Tec P3AT. I've owned the latter. My gun would do the same thing with wide-mouthed hollowpoints like Cor-Bon but would feed JHP's with a more rounded profile without trouble. When the Cor-Bon's wouldn't feed fully, it seemed all I had to do is tap the rear of the slide with my thumb and it would finish the process. I'd suggest using a Federal Premium Defense type JHP when carrying to avoid this issue. Don't give up on the LCP -I've handled them and they are fine pistols. Small semi-auto's are notoriously fussy and require some rounds (and good cleaning) to function at the top of their game. Hang in there.


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## plentyofpaws

Try Buffalo Bore, I've never had a problem with them.


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## forestranger

Have you tried "sling shotting" the slide to see if they'll chamber? Pull slide back and release quick.


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## jdeere9750

Mik said:


> Noticed this morning that when I loaded it with hollow points and just racked the slide to expel the bullets, they jammed before actually going into the chamber. Is this a good test? I tried Gold Dot, FMJ and Aguila ammo and all did about the same.


Mine has the same troubles. I agree with Pistolero - a small nudge on the back of the slide seems to be the fix. The only HP rounds I've been able to get a hold of and try are Remington and CorBon. They sometimes (not always) had trouble feeding when I manually chamber a round, but I've only had one fail to feed while I was shooting (75 rounds).

I would like to try some other rounds, but I can't seem to beat my neighbors to the store to get .380's. :numbchuck:


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## jdeere9750

Anyone tried any of Hornady's Critical Defense hollow points with the LCP? Any thoughts on them?


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## Pistolero

Haven't seen an actual box of them yet but from looking at the round in photos I'd say feeding would be much better. A glaser round may actually be ideal with the polymer ball in the nose. I see no way these could hang-up on the ramp.


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## Teuthis

The LCP sometimes jams if you are trying to cycle rounds manually. I had that happen. But those same rounds feed flawlessly in action. Before you mistrust any specific rounds, try shooting them. The only problem I had at first was with some 90 grain cartriges called "Pow'r Ball." They failed a couple of times when I tried to chamber one for firing.


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## Bisley

A better test is to lock the slide back and insert the magazine, then either slingshot it or just release the slide release and let it snap into battery.

Mine feeds any FMJ, but I avoid the Buffalo Bore 100 grain Hardcast lead. It shoots them fine, and functions OK, but after a few shots, the chamber gets leaded up enough that the cartridge will not eject manually. It will fire OK, and eject the spent case, but if you should want to unload it without firing, you have a problem. I was able to get enough slack to remove the slide, and tap it out from the muzzle end, but I wasn't very comfortable doing it, and I certainly don't recommend it to anyone.

As for hollow point ammo, all I have tried is Remington Golden Sabre, and they work fine. I'm not really convinced that hollow point is the way to go in such an underpowered gun, but that's what I'm using for now. The most expensive hollow points (DPX) only penetrate about 9 inches into ballistic gel, so they may or may not be effective against the baddest of the bad guys, in a worst case scenario...which is probably what a person should be prepared for.


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## jdeere9750

Bisley said:


> I'm not really convinced that hollow point is the way to go in such an underpowered gun, but that's what I'm using for now. The most expensive hollow points (DPX) only penetrate about 9 inches into ballistic gel, so they may or may not be effective against the baddest of the bad guys, in a worst case scenario...which is probably what a person should be prepared for.


Most everyone's claiming that the Hornady's will go about 10" through clothing, and about 12" in bare gelatin. I know that's a little short of the FBI's minimum, but isn't that pretty good for a little LCP? What would be the better option? FMJ?


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## Bisley

The only tests I have seen that show those kinds of numbers (link: http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/380acp/hor380-90xtp-b85.htm) are achieved by firing the rounds through a 3.8" barrel, as in a Beretta 85. The LCP has a 2.75" barrel, which decreases velocity considerably, and therefore it will penetrate considerably less.

The thing about ballistic gel tests is that it is not hard to "cook the books." Differences in temperature, alone, will make a significant difference, not to mention all the different variations in the 'recipe' itself, for mixing the gel. The bottom line is that the very best bullet's ability to penetrate is going to depend upon it's velocity, which can only be increased by increasing the power of the charge, or lengthening the barrel.

The latest, greatest bullets may do amazing things in the expansion department, but that may actually hinder penetration, because it creates more resistance when going through solid material. I think you would find that most of the top rated premium loads are going to perform almost exactly the same, given the same test criteria, because the limits were reached a long time ago, as to what a .380 is capable of. The main difference in them is in the way they advertise their product.



jdeere9750 said:


> ...I know that's a little short of the FBI's minimum, but isn't that pretty good for a little LCP? What would be the better option? FMJ?


Good question. I am wishy-washy on this one. Having never been in a self-defense situation, I don't know whether it is best to hope for a hit to the major organs, causing massive blood loss, or to hope for a crippling blow to the spine or pelvis. Obviously, FMJ would be the better round to achieve the penetration needed to reach the spine.

The question is not whether the .380 is capable of causing death - it obviously is. But the goal is simply to stop the attack, so that you can escape harm...and I don't know, with a .380, which strategy is best. To be honest, I avoid carrying a .380, unless it is simply the best I can do under a certain circumstance. When I do carry one, it will be loaded with whatever I am in favor of, that day.


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## jdeere9750

Bisley said:


> The only tests I have seen that show those kinds of numbers (link: http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/380acp/hor380-90xtp-b85.htm) are achieved by firing the rounds through a 3.8" barrel, as in a Beretta 85. The LCP has a 2.75" barrel, which decreases velocity considerably, and therefore it will penetrate considerably less.
> 
> The thing about ballistic gel tests is that it is not hard to "cook the books." Differences in temperature, alone, will make a significant difference, not to mention all the different variations in the 'recipe' itself, for mixing the gel. The bottom line is that the very best bullet's ability to penetrate is going to depend upon it's velocity, which can only be increased by increasing the power of the charge, or lengthening the barrel.
> 
> The latest, greatest bullets may do amazing things in the expansion department, but that may actually hinder penetration, because it creates more resistance when going through solid material. I think you would find that most of the top rated premium loads are going to perform almost exactly the same, given the same test criteria, because the limits were reached a long time ago, as to what a .380 is capable of. The main difference in them is in the way they advertise their product.
> 
> Good question. I am wishy-washy on this one. Having never been in a self-defense situation, I don't know whether it is best to hope for a hit to the major organs, causing massive blood loss, or to hope for a crippling blow to the spine or pelvis. Obviously, FMJ would be the better round to achieve the penetration needed to reach the spine.
> 
> The question is not whether the .380 is capable of causing death - it obviously is. But the goal is simply to stop the attack, so that you can escape harm...and I don't know, with a .380, which strategy is best. To be honest, I avoid carrying a .380, unless it is simply the best I can do under a certain circumstance. When I do carry one, it will be loaded with whatever I am in favor of, that day.


Thanks for the reply. Lots of food for thought. Seeing as I am fairly green in all of this I haven't been paying much attention to the barrel length. I've looked at a whole mess of tests, but here's the one that I was thinking about when I posted earlier: (http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG_acriticalchoice_200903/index.html). I think the test were shot with a P3AT. It says 9-10" through combined heavy clothing and down vest material and the velocity was 860 fps.

Two more questions for you guys. Do you think that there's much, if any, difference in the Hornadys and a Federal EFMJ or CorBon PowRBall?

Would a person ever consider mixing a magazine with hollow points and FMJ's? Maybe the first round is a HP of your choosing and the second is a good FMJ, or vice versa?


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## DrSharkey

The only JHP rounds I can find in my area right now are Magtech Guardian Gold. Shot 40 rounds thru it with no problems.


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## Bisley

jdeere9750 said:


> Two more questions for you guys. Do you think that there's much, if any, difference in the Hornadys and a Federal EFMJ or CorBon PowRBall?


I have no experience with any of those rounds. The expanding FMJ's have my interest piqued, for .380, but I don't know anything about them, as yet.

As for the others, my opinion is that the performance is going to be similar with all of them, as I stated in the other post. The ones that have plastic filled hollow points may solve some feeding problems that some small guns have, but I seriously doubt that there is significant difference between any of the premium brands in expansion and penetration.



> Would a person ever consider mixing a magazine with hollow points and FMJ's? Maybe the first round is a HP of your choosing and the second is a good FMJ, or vice versa?


I hear and read about people doing this, and if the gun feeds reliably, I guess it's OK. I might have spare mags that were loaded with different type bullets, but personally, alternating individual rounds would not increase my confidence any. I would always have doubts about it feeding properly.


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