# I'm guessing the Ferguson decision will be tomorrow



## pic

Before thanksgiving. The jurors have to do their grocery shopping, Black Friday.
You need at least a couple days of action to quell the violence before the holiday.:smt067


----------



## paratrooper

Maybe if they made the decision on Black Friday, for the most part, everything would just kind of gel together. 

It would be difficult though, to tell the rioters from the shoppers. I guess the shoppers would be the ones with money in their wallets and purses. :watching:


----------



## Goldwing

I think they should time the announcement of the grand jury findings as carefully as POTUS times the announcement of his "executive actions". Maybe spill the beans when all of these Fergusen protester outsiders have to be somewhere else. Usually the present administration deals out bad news at midnight on a Friday. My guess is that they will time the announcement to their advantage regardless of what the outcome is. If nothing else they are predictable.
Goldwing


----------



## DJ Niner

I'm guessing most of these protestors don't have a strict schedule that requires them to be anywhere at a given time. Ever.

I'm guessing a lot of kids will be kept out of school on Monday. I know as a parent, I wouldn't send my youngsters to school if something like this was about to pop. If the authorities are smart and compassionate, they won't announce anything until after the schools are let out and kids are all home, but I wouldn't bet the farm on that level of awareness of most public employees (present company excepted, if there are any here, of course).


----------



## Cait43

The media is the "gasoline truck" that continues to "fill 'um up" in these type situations.......


----------



## BackyardCowboy

paratrooper said:


> Maybe if they made the decision on Black Friday, for the most part, everything would just kind of gel together.
> 
> It would be difficult though, to tell the rioters from the shoppers. I guess the shoppers would be the ones with money in their wallets and purses. :watching:


Maybe if they just made the announcement AT Walmart?

Have the protesters between the Black Friday shoppers and the entrance doors.

And put the media cameras and reporters right in the entrance-way.


----------



## shootbrownelk

paratrooper said:


> Maybe if they made the decision on Black Friday, for the most part, everything would just kind of gel together.
> 
> It would be difficult though, to tell the rioters from the shoppers. I guess the shoppers would be the ones with money in their wallets and purses. :watching:


 The shoppers would be the ones to actually pay for their items, the "Protesters/Rioters" would be the ones breaking windows or tearing off plywood and stealing their items. It'll become a real "black friday" if the GJ waits untill after Thanksgiving to announce their decision. God help us either way it goes, I'm afraid this will have a violent effect across the nation. Thanks Holder!


----------



## desertman

As Jimi Hendrix once sang "Oh, baby why'd you burn your brothers house down". (House burning down---Electric Ladyland.)


----------



## RK3369

it's been a long, tedious process. Since it's taken so long, either there is a lot of disagreement on whether or not to indict, or there is an agreement not to indict. Either way, I see lots of rioting and burning coming because there is no one in that community that will be satisfied with the outcome. The other problem is that many in the neighborhoods that are actually residents of the neighborhoods are asking for calm, they don't want the looting and burning. Much of the anger is being vented by outside agitators who have come into the area looking for trouble. I'm afraid they are going to get it, because I can not see how there is any reason to indict that cop. He was defending himself from a person that had already beaten him somewhat, and was rushing at him again according to what I have heard on the story. Sorry, based on what I've seen and heard, I just can't see how they can indict that cop or, if they do, it will be because they need a sacrificial lamb to try to keep some level of control in the community as opposed to seeing it erupt into major rioting.


----------



## desertman

Sisters and brothers, daddy,s mothers standin' 'round cryin' When I reached the scene the flames were makin' a ghostly whine. ---Jimi Hendrix "House burning down". Sorry can't get that song out of my head. I guess things haven't changed since "Watts" or "Crown Heights". Give em' a reason and they will riot.


----------



## desertman

Crown Heights:


> For three days following the accident, numerous African Americans and Caribbean Americans of the neighborhood, *joined by growing numbers of non-residents*, rioted in Crown Heights.





> On the third day of the disturbances, *Al Sharpton* and Sonny Carson led a march. The marchers proceeded through Crown Heights, carrying antisemitic signs and an Israeli flag was burned.Rioters threw bricks and bottles at police; shots were fired at police and police cars were pelted and overturned, including the Police Commissioner's car


Not the Reverend Al? Say it ain't so! So you see the song remains the same, no wonder I can't get it out of my head.


----------



## desertman

shootbrownelk:


> Thanks Holder!


Holder, Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakahn, Maddox, Wright etc. and the black militant that now occupies the oval office are one and the same. This man will go down as the worst occupier of the oval office in history. Thank Holder? No, thank the Americans that elected him.


----------



## Dframe

Neighborhood agitator fanning the flames!


----------



## paratrooper

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he (Off. Wilson) will *NOT* be indicted.


----------



## desertman

Just wondering? If the grand jury indicts Officer Wilson will the white neighborhoods erupt in violence?


----------



## Goldwing

think not. I wouldn't want to be the only white resident on the block though. Might get a bit sketchy since all the LEs will be pretty busy. :smt104I
Goldwing


----------



## pic




----------



## paratrooper

The announcement has now been pushed back to 9pm eastern time.

Another red flag that it's not gonna please *some* people. :watching:


----------



## BackyardCowboy

paratrooper said:


> The announcement has now been pushed back to 9pm eastern time.
> 
> Another red flag that it's not gonna please *some* people. :watching:


Giving all the LEO's time to get in position.


----------



## paratrooper

BackyardCowboy said:


> Giving all the LEO's time to get in position.


More likely to give them more time to go over their rules of engagement guidelines...........again!


----------



## TAPnRACK

Most LE had advance notice of the decision.

It's nice they gave advanced warning so people who wish to not be caught out on the street can make it home.


----------



## TAPnRACK

Militant group now threatens WAR is officer is acquitted... http://www.infowars.com/militant-group-threatens-war-in-response-to-ferguson-verdict/


----------



## Philco

No indictments returned..................

Let's hope it stays cold in Ferguson for the next few days.


----------



## paratrooper

Lady Justice has considered the issue and tipped her scale in the direction of true justice.


----------



## Goldwing

We should all kick in the price of a good box of ammo and help Officer Wilson get somewhere where things are a bit more relaxed.
Goldwing. :smt038


----------



## Cait43

Maybe there should have been a subtle warning issued prior to the indictment decision being announced........ Such as:

*Warning: Looters, fire bombers and arsonist will be shot on sight.......*


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Cait43 said:


> Maybe there should have been a subtle warning issued prior to the indictment decision being announced........ Such as:
> 
> *Warning: Looters, fire bombers and arsonist will be shot on sight.......*


Too late.
There's already been shots fired, bricks thrown, businesses broken into, and buildings set on fire.

Why is it that rioters always seem to destroy their own home towns?

If you owned a looted or burned business in Ferguson, would you rebuild it or reëstablish it?


----------



## Cait43

Live St. Louis County Police Scanner
St. Louis County Police Scanner on USTREAM: This is an audio stream of the St. Louis County Police scanners. Ferguson PD RIOT-A RIOT-B RIOT-C RIOT-D RIOT-E...


----------



## phudd

My heart goes out to the members of the media in Ferguson tonight. As a long time sufferer of tendinitis I can sympathize with the pain they will surely suffer after this long night if fervently stirring the pot.


----------



## Cait43

Steve M1911A1 said:


> If you owned a looted or burned business in Ferguson, would you rebuild it or reëstablish it?


Personally, if I owned a business in Ferguson I would have cleaned out my store after the first day they rioted and moved to another city........


----------



## Cait43

Ferguson live video........
Live Streaming 2 | FOX2now.com


----------



## PT111Pro

Ferguson is not made for the average citizen in the US. Ferguson is made for every single police officer in the nation. The message is for LEO:" Keep away your fingers from African american criminals". This is the message what the government and especially the racist media come out with. Yes! Racism works in all directions. Why is it that when a white LEO stops a African American for speeding is it racism and when a African American LEO stops a white driver for speeding than is that about time to punish that bastard. Why is that in the US in 2014.

And now again and again, like the Zimmerman case and other cases that created by liberals and the racists like Sharpten. No one knows what really happen in Ferguson. The DA was allowed to say that the jury did not charge the LEO but when he explained what happen Mr. Stephanoplus and the US media cut him off right than when the DA tried to explain what, based on investigation and witness testimonies, step by step happen. It look like the Media is concerned that the protest for a career criminal will die out. The media immediately started discussions with unnecessary assumptions (the DA explained what happen but was cut off national TV) instead and pretend no one would no what happen. No it is very clear what happen but that doesn't fit a racist liberal agenda. And the assumptions and well placed lies going on since more than 12 hours now in all TV channels even this morning in all TV Stations. When will that stop? I guess when the last LEO understood what his or her role is in the new Liberal America. 
Well being multi lingual has the advantage to read what happen in Ferguson in the media outside the US. In Italy fore example run a live stream on RAI TV web, up to 3:00 am today. But should not the US citizen know what really happen in Ferguson? The Italians didn't understand why people are demonstrating because a LEO did his job. But they didn't have a racist propaganda for months now experienced.

I wounder why no one ask the media for what happen in Ferguson and not what the Media with their racist will like to pretend what happen. I wonder why no one held the media accountable for misrepresentation of the facts that lead to protest and people getting hurt. And I thought liberals are humanists. Well see how you can mistaken when humanism means killing people for a greater good. Than a human life doesn't count at all.

But my question to the African American community is: "Is that the new African American United States of America that everyone have to fear career criminals that going loading, killing and burning trough american streets?" Is that the America that the African American community would like, or should not the African American Community also be interested that LE is able to stop criminals? Don't have African Americans children, parents and do they think that their Brothers will leave them alone because they are the same race?
Now they show a Mother in TV that cries. No not because she lost a son, she lost a source of income. How long does it take to have a child and train the child to steal and murder trough streets to make a living? Now she faces to have to work, I mean real work for a paycheck. That is what they cry about.

I'll think that America should ask this questions. What did happen in Ferguson? No one ask this question, everyone discusses only the assumptions that the TV provides.

I ask: "Are you a LEO and do you still feel comfortable to stop a black criminal". Yes? OK and how long do you think you are able to do that before your Major for political reasons will stop you?


----------



## SailDesign

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Too late.
> <snip>
> 
> Why is it that rioters always seem to destroy their own home towns?
> 
> <snippage - answer is "No", BTW...


Mainly because the ones doing the rioting are probably not FROM Ferguson, so it isn't their town...


----------



## paratrooper

If there was ever a doubt in the minds of some people and whether or not there was a race issue in the US, last night's circus pretty much cleared up any and all doubt.


----------



## paratrooper

61 arrested last night, and the authorities said most of them were local residents.


----------



## GCBHM

The blatant disregard for the law is sickening. These thugs are not the least bit interested in justice.


----------



## Goldwing

Now Ex-A.G Holder is going to take a swing at Wilson. Political tripe to keep the natives restless.(his first name should have been Dick)
Goldwing


----------



## shootbrownelk

desertman said:


> shootbrownelk:
> 
> Holder, Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakahn, Maddox, Wright etc. and the black militant that now occupies the oval office are one and the same. This man will go down as the worst occupier of the oval office in history. Thank Holder? No, thank the Americans that elected him.


 We didn't elect Holder, he was appointed by the POS in the presidential office that we did elect.


----------



## shootbrownelk

paratrooper said:


> 61 arrested last night, and the authorities said most of them were local residents.


 If the cops wanted to arrest more than 61, they should have set-up right by that liquor store that was looted. What a bunch of animals, and they want respect? That's something to be earned, not taken by threats of violence. And as an aside, most of the sign painters really should take a class in 3rd. grade spelling!


----------



## shootbrownelk

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Too late.
> There's already been shots fired, bricks thrown, businesses broken into, and buildings set on fire.
> 
> Why is it that rioters always seem to destroy their own home towns?
> 
> If you owned a looted or burned business in Ferguson, would you rebuild it or reëstablish it?


 Probably not. But maybe the "protesters" want a bit more of a Detroit feel to Ferguson.


----------



## SailDesign

desertman said:


> <snippage>
> This man will go down as the worst occupier of the oval office in history.
> <more snip>


Gonna be hard to oust W, even now.


----------



## GCBHM

Actually, I don't think many will agree with you, Sail, about W. Although he did oversee the most massive expansion of government prior to and pave the way for Obama to accomplish all that he has, Obama is by far the worst occupier in history. Carter breaths a sigh of relief.


----------



## phudd

I am disturbed by some of the terms being used to describe the protesters in Ferguson. "looter" is derogatory and racist. The proper term is "Undocumented shopper"


----------



## SailDesign

GCBHM said:


> Actually, I don't think many will agree with you, Sail, about W. Although he did oversee the most massive expansion of government prior to and pave the way for Obama to accomplish all that he has, Obama is by far the worst occupier in history. Carter breaths a sigh of relief.


I don't expect many here to agree with me. Actually, I don't expect ANY here to agree with me. I'm just stating it as I see it. Each to their own.

That takes care of 1A - 2A will be taken care of on Friday at the range.


----------



## phudd

SailDesign said:


> I don't expect many here to agree with me. Actually, I don't expect ANY here to agree with me. I'm just stating it as I see it. Each to their own.
> 
> That takes care of 1A - 2A will be taken care of on Friday at the range.


I rate W and O as tied for second when it comes to our worst president. Hard to argue that Lincoln did more to destroy liberty than any other had or has since


----------



## SailDesign

phudd said:


> I rate W and O as tied for second when it comes to our worst president. Hard to argue that Lincoln did more to destroy liberty than any other had or has since


Good point.


----------



## desertman

SailDesign:


> The proper term is "Undocumented shopper"


I like that! Just as drug dealers are unlicensed pharmacists.


----------



## Philco

If the black folks of Ferguson are seeking justice and respect, they're looking in the totaly wrong direction. I have nothing but contempt for the mob that took to the streets last night. Their call for justice is laughable. They got justice, they wanted vengence.


----------



## BackyardCowboy

phudd said:


> I am disturbed by some of the terms being used to describe the protesters in Ferguson. "looter" is derogatory and racist. The proper term is "Undocumented shopper"





desertman said:


> SailDesign:
> 
> I like that! Just as drug dealers are unlicensed pharmacists.


And Obama's gonna forgive them all and sign them up for welfare like all the unlicensed aliens.


----------



## Cait43

Psssssssttttttttt

This thread concerns what is happening as a result of the grand jury decision and not whether Obama or Bush will be the worst president ever... Just saying........


----------



## paratrooper

This surprises me: Military Veterans Send Urgent Letter To National Guard In Ferguson Telling Them To Stand Down


----------



## pic

SailDesign said:


> Good point.


I don't understand the Lincoln comment. What does that mean? 
Thanks
Pic


----------



## SailDesign

pic said:


> I don't understand the Lincoln comment. What does that mean?
> Thanks
> Pic


I am not a historian, so i'll direct you here, where ALL of the reasons are laid out, rather than the 3 or 4 I can remember. 
Lincoln worst president in US history | American Civil War Forums


----------



## Tip

It's simple - the "best" president is yet to come, the worst president is always the current resident.

Now back to topic:
Question: this GJ was given everything - it appears nothing was held back from them - they ruled "no bill" - what credence do you place on the shouts that "justice wasn't served"? How should it be answered?


----------



## SailDesign

Tip said:


> It's simple - the "best" president is yet to come, the worst president is always the current resident.
> 
> Now back to topic:
> Question: this GJ was given everything - it appears nothing was held back from them - they ruled "no bill" - what credence do you place on the shouts that "justice wasn't served"? How should it be answered?


I think there are a lot of questions that people wold like to see answered, but sadly most of those asking will not like the "wrong" answers, and that will make things worse. Even here in RI, we had parts of I-95 closed down last night because of demonstrators in the road. 
My personal hope was that they would indict, so that a trial could be undertaken and a the whole thing played out in the public eye. Of course, even THAT would be a mess because of the Press reporting what THEY want to report.....
No easy answers.


----------



## GCBHM

Cait43 said:


> Psssssssttttttttt
> 
> This thread concerns what is happening as a result of the grand jury decision and not whether Obama or Bush will be the worst president ever... Just saying........


This is true, but these discussions have a way of taking a path of their own sometimes.


----------



## GCBHM

pic said:


> I don't understand the Lincoln comment. What does that mean?
> Thanks
> Pic


Well, wrt Lincoln, he was the father of central government. He single handedly destroyed the founded United States of American and replaced it with the United State of America when he invaded the South for its tax revenue, against the advice of many Northern representatives, and popular opinion, that the South should have been allowed to secede peacefully, as they attempted to do. In essence, Lincoln was the original American dictator. Obama is not the first, and he won't be the last, but Lincoln laid the foundation and set the standard. See below:

The Real Lincoln - Walter E. Williams - Page 1


----------



## shootbrownelk

GCBHM said:


> Actually, I don't think many will agree with you, Sail, about W. Although he did oversee the most massive expansion of government prior to and pave the way for Obama to accomplish all that he has, Obama is by far the worst occupier in history. Carter breaths a sigh of relief.


 I think that Dick Cheney was the worst president. And the most dangerous hunting partner.


----------



## GCBHM

shootbrownelk said:


> I think that Dick Cheney was the worst president. And the most dangerous hunting partner.


Can't argue with the hunting partner! Cheney is a statesman, by the modern standard, no doubt, but he is part of the warhawk neocon movement that we desperately need to get away from.


----------



## GCBHM

Tip said:


> It's simple - the "best" president is yet to come, the worst president is always the current resident.
> 
> Now back to topic:
> Question: this GJ was given everything - it appears nothing was held back from them - they ruled "no bill" - what credence do you place on the shouts that "justice wasn't served"? How should it be answered?


I think to answer this question is an effort in futility, but I will attempt to do so. First, we must realize that those shouting justice wasn't served are not in the least bit interested in justice. They want only revenge, and not for the death of Michael Brown, but for all the wrong that has been done to their race and culture over the years. In essence, they do not want to take up the mantle and change things. They want to be able to do whatever they want, and the rest of us change. But I submit it all rests on the individual. This sentiment of racism runs deep, but most don't understand what racism truly is. I think Ron Paul defines racism best as the following.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist. -Ron Paul

So then as we examine this we should be able to see what is happening in Ferguson. The underlying problem is personal inaccountability, however. The fact that no one is talking about the choices Michael Brown made to strong arm rob a local convenient store and attack a cop is more telling than anything. It tells me no one is really interested in the truth or justice, but intent on stirring up strife and hate. The media is the main culprit, and we all know why. Ratings. It's just GREAT "news". The people of Ferguson are mere pawns in the big game of money and power. It is about dividing and conquering. Pitting one side against the other for gain. That's all in the world this is.

If the people of Ferguson wanted peace, they could achieve it without any outside interference. And it appears they are simply too daft to realize what is actually going on. It's enough to be on TV and have a "movement", but there is nothing more dangerous than a fool with a cause. Clearly we see!


----------



## pic

SailDesign said:


> I am not a historian, so i'll direct you here, where ALL of the reasons are laid out, rather than the 3 or 4 I can remember.
> Lincoln worst president in US history | American Civil War Forums


Lincoln , in many eyes is one of our best presidents this nation has known.
Thanks for the link, the debate on the given link "civil war forum" can go on n on. Might start another civil war ,lol. I' m gonna leave it alone. It seems to be a whole new thread .


----------



## SailDesign

pic said:


> Lincoln , in many eyes is one of our best presidents this nation has known.
> Thanks for the link, the debate on the given link "civil war forum" can go on n on. Might start another civil war ,lol. I' m gonna leave it alone. It seems to be a whole new thread .


Yup! It just happened to be the link with the most to say. Google was my, umm... friend? Something like that.


----------



## GCBHM

Lincoln was a tyrant with the blood of over 600,000 Americans on his hands, and he destroyed the United States of America.


----------



## PT111Pro

Ferguson like I said before is an example for every and any given LEO in the United States. Is there really a LEO that after Ferguson that goes out and try to stop a black american criminal from killing people without fear that s/he could be next that the left wing media crucify because of their unbelievable openly celebrated racism. 
In the TV the medias showing hate speeches and lie with every word that is said in liberal TV. In "The View" for example right now they tell the people that the police man came off against any given law. The evidences, the witness testimonies and the autopsies would point to the guilt of the LEO.

Thats the naked face of the ultra racist left wing media and the democratic party. Look closer even if you call yourself a liberal or democrat. Look closer! They said 2 minutes ago in the View, that the policeman in Ferguson was not prosecuted because he is white. All the evidence, the witness statements and all the autopsy results would point in the direction that the poor "little" innocent boy was shoot in cold blood by the police from behind. He was brutally murdered because he was black. Interesting that the liberals using now the word black and in other times you can get sued by the liberals if you don't use the political correct term.

US Today? Well it is runnd and ruined by a media and school system that is oriented on the Frankfurt School and Stalinism. The President is a Dictator that rules the country with his pen disregarding any given law or constitution. 
When will the democrats with their hate speech media stop?: I guess it will not stop before they have hated up someone that goes and shoots the policeman or one of his families.

When do U think that the liberal blood guzzler have enough racism, hate and lies spread? When does their media stop perching hate? Is it enough to kill only the LEO or his family or should be aunts and uncles be murdered too? When will black america have enough human blood seen to be satisfied, so that the liberal media quit to agitate white against black and black against white? When will the liberals have enough blood shed?


----------



## SailDesign

PT111Pro said:


> <Major snip of hate speech>


Dude - you watch The View? Srsly?

Blech!

And please don't get me started on the anti-immigration hate speech from That Other Party. They are but two wings, etc....


----------



## GCBHM

Agreed one party is just as bad as the other. As stated, Lincoln (a Republican) was the first dictator completely disregarding the constitution, destroying the country with his executive legislation. But let's make one thing clear. The president's immigration policy is unlawful. Not only is it unfair to the millions of immigrants who came here the right way, and those who are still waiting by doing it the right way, he does not have the power to implement it. Nor did Lincoln have the power to invade the South, but that didn't stop him either. The precedence? Lincoln laid the foundation for the lawlessness we see from Obama today. Yes, it goes back to his example.


----------



## pic

GCBHM said:


> Agreed one party is just as bad as the other. As stated, Lincoln (a Republican) was the first dictator completely disregarding the constitution, destroying the country with his executive legislation. But let's make one thing clear. The president's immigration policy is unlawful. Not only is it unfair to the millions of immigrants who came here the right way, and those who are still waiting by doing it the right way, he does not have the power to implement it. Nor did Lincoln have the power to invade the South, but that didn't stop him either. The precedence? Lincoln laid the foundation for the lawlessness we see from Obama today. Yes, it goes back to his example.


You seem very negatively and strong minded against Lincoln, you have your opinion I know.
What's your opinion on slavery and all men are created equal if I may ask?


----------



## GCBHM

pic said:


> You seem very negatively and strong minded against Lincoln, you have your opinion I know.
> What's your opinion on slavery and all men are created equal if I may ask?


I find it rather interesting that a lot of people react this way. Slavery was wrong then and it is wrong now; however, the South is not the only region where slavery existed, and Lincoln had no intention or desire to free slaves. His sole purpose for invading the South was to keep the revenue from the industry growth in that region. He sought only to preserve the union (for that reason) and said if he could do so without freeing slaves he would. Now, what do you think Mr. Lincoln's point of view on slavery was?

Food for thought:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/08/thomas-dilorenzo/lincolns-racial-views/


----------



## GCBHM

Here is some reading you may find interesting:
The Real Lincoln - Walter E. Williams - Page 1

And another bit for the down time:
Thomas DiLorenzo on the Myth of Lincoln, Secession and the Civil War | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo257.html


----------



## PT111Pro

> Agreed one party is just as bad as the other.


Agreed, they are the same, only the words are different.
War on terror = Peace mission
I could go on.
Only the media is quiet when the liberals in power, he reports from Guantanamo now bigger and more inmates as ever before, not happen? Who cares people that get killed and tortured by liberals are lucky, they get tortured for a greater good and as long the liberal next door don't have to do it with his/her own hand and can deny it (the media stay quiet) than is even mass murdering completely OK. That was 1933 in Europe the same too....... There is nothing new in Liberalism even when they change constantly their names and definitions...

My question is, after I can see that in the US minorities can do whatever they want to. How should the black, Mexican, Muslim United States of America look like? Is there no one in that so called minority group that feel uncomfortable with protecting career murderers? Is this how the future of the US shall look like. Black, Mexican and Muslims grooming killing, burning, raping and steeling their way through the streets, the police have to look the other way because the court of law don't count anymore and the police get in the media harassed when they help the old or poor, until someone finaly kills them. The rule of medias' street-criminals ruling the US?. Is this the future of the US? Anyone like to live in that nation? Anyone her that believe that any police officer is not looking in direction of Ferguson and start to think what he gonna do if s/he approaches a media and politic proitrected African American killer?

Well there are many examples only the last 100 years in the world about liberalism, humanism etc. The US rescued them always. The last rescue mission was conducted by Ronald Reagan that open and freed the people of east Germany.
But when the US get insane and becom Liberal, who will free the US citizens? Putin? Xi Jingping? Nicolas Maduro? Iran or may be the Irak?
At the moment Minorities in the US think, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But that doesn't work. Africans and Mexicans don't go together thiss well. In between are Muslim and tell me witch one of them will finally make it, and when exactly do they start a civilian unrest to get rid of each other, then those minorities never fit together in peace. So who will win and how many have to die again and again until school teachers and day dreamer realize that this type of political correctness and society doesn't work in reality (Never had in known 6000 years)?
And after that. Who will free the nation after Liberalism failed to the 5 million time? Liberals always want to have liberalism and when they finally have it, they cry out loud for help to get rid of it.
Who will come and free the US? Putin? Xi Jingping? The totally bankrupt and corrupt Liberal communistic Europe? The Middle East? Israel? Dream on.


----------



## pic

GCBHM said:


> Here is some reading you may find interesting:
> The Real Lincoln - Walter E. Williams - Page 1
> 
> And another bit for the down time:
> Thomas DiLorenzo on the Myth of Lincoln, Secession and the Civil War | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show
> 
> The Real Lincoln in His Own Words by Thomas DiLorenzo


I'm on my way out the door, can't Google,I respect your opinion, but I am an Abe Lincoln Fan, that's my opinion. I Love the Lincoln memorial, Mt. Rushmore and all the other great dedications to a great man. :smt1099
Thanks


----------



## SailDesign

PT111Pro said:


> A<snip>
> But when the US get insane, who will free the US citizens? Putin? Xi Jingping? Nicolas Maduro?
> <snip some more>


Well, it sure as hell won't be the GOP. They are currently so tied to the Tea Potties that their credibility overseas is absolutely zero.


----------



## GCBHM

pic said:


> I'm on my way out the door, can't Google,I respect your opinion, but I am an Abe Lincoln Fan, that's my opinion. I Love the Lincoln memorial, Mt. Rushmore and all the other great dedications to a great man. :smt1099
> Thanks


It isn't my opinion. It is a fact that Mr. Lincoln did and said the things he is on record for. The truth is that for many years he was my favorite president; however, when I learned that there was another side to the government sponsored history, my views of the man changed dramatically.

The fact is he did not have any desire to free slaves or promote them as equals in society. He completely disregarded the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution of the United States with his unlawful invasion of the South, which desired and attempted to peacefully secede. He was, in fact, a dictator much the same as Obama is now. In fact, I believe they are one and the same.

By the way, this isn't something that I just looked up on-line. I've studied this stuff for a little while now, and I'm learning more about how our government was intended to be as outlined by the founders as I go. One thing is certain. If you know the government lies about things to control our access to guns, then surely you understand they lie about everything to maintain the control Mr. Lincoln fought so hard to consolidate and give it. The founders fought vehemently to prevent a strong, massive central government. Mr. Lincoln fought just a fervently to create that very thing. He is why Obama runs reckless today. It isn't just opinion. It is the truth, on which I base my opinions.

I do respect and have fought for your right to have your opinions, but I don't respect the opinion itself. Mr. Lincoln was not a great man, unless you also consider Mr. Obama to be equally great. Again, they are one and the same.


----------



## PT111Pro

My Oppinion.
Ferguson is not only Ferguson.
Ferguson is a teaching moment where liberal teaching all LEO in the US what happen when they interfere with a media and politically protected specimen.


----------



## GCBHM

SailDesign said:


> Well, it sure as hell won't be the GOP. They are currently so tied to the Tea Potties that their credibility overseas is absolutely zero.


The entire government's credibility is zero. It has been for many years now, and it is steadily declining as we speak.


----------



## pic

the


GCBHM said:


> It isn't my opinion. It is a fact that Mr. Lincoln did and said the things he is on record for. The truth is that for many years he was my favorite president; however, when I learned that there was another side to the government sponsored history, my views of the man changed dramatically.
> 
> The fact is he did not have any desire to free slaves or promote them as equals in society. He completely disregarded the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution of the United States with his unlawful invasion of the South, which desired and attempted to peacefully secede. He was, in fact, a dictator much the same as Obama is now. In fact, I believe they are one and the same.


It's regarded as an opinion ( bullying tactics will not sway me) there are many scholars who differ from your facts that base your opinion of Abe Lincoln. He has been dissected by top scholars from the best universities in the world, and ranks as one of the best Presidents. Thank you 
Pic


----------



## GCBHM

pic said:


> the
> 
> It's regarded as an opinion ( bullying tactics will not sway me) there are many scholars who differ from your facts that base your opinion of Abe Lincoln. He has been dissected by top scholars from the best universities in the world, and ranks as one of the best Presidents. Thank you
> Pic


No bullying intended. Again, these are not "my" facts, but of course, you're free to regard the facts as you wish. I do hold opinions based on the facts, but that does not make the facts mine. I did not make it up. I just read it. ALL of it. The fact is Lincoln did not desire to free the slaves, and he did not consider them equal to whites. My opinion, based on the knowledge of that fact, is that I don't think very highly of Linclon. There is a difference.

I am well aware of his ranking, and of the many scholars who defend him as a president, but that does not make him or them right. Although we are all entitled to believe what we wish, to form opinions based on the facts we learn, when you consider ALL the facts (not just the ones promulgated by the government sanctioned scholars), a different picture of Lincoln begins to emerge.

That does not mean you have to accept that, and I would never attempt to force you to, but it does not change the fact that Lincoln was not a champion of the slaves, or that he totally disregarded the constitution and liberty (that our founders fought to secure) to form a "more perfect union". Have you ever considered why Lincoln thought it necessary to form a more perfect union than what the founders established? When you think about it, it sounds rather "Obamaish", doesn't it. And why? I have my theories, but those are just my opinions of what I know about the man.

At any rate, IF you will actually take the time to research for yourself, you may that find your opinion of the man may change as mine has. Maybe not! And, that is fine with me. But the facts are what they are. Believe me, I was terribly disappointed when I learned the truth about the man. Terribly disillusioned and disgusted, actually. Of course, you are certainly entitled and welcome to choose your truth as you wish. As far as I am concerned, I'm content knowing the whole truth.

Again, no offense intended. Just discussing what I believe and why, since you did ask the question.


----------



## GCBHM

By the way, pic, I had pretty much the same reaction the first time I had this discussion with someone who introduced me to facts I was not aware of regarding Lincoln. I defended Lincoln furiously, though, and fought to preserve my illusion of him vehemently. But when I began to search it out for myself, my mind began to change as I saw the truth. 

You and I get along very well on here, and I intend to maintain that, so please understand my intent is not to offend you, or even educate you. Again, I responded to your question of what I think about slavery, etc. I hope you do understand that.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

paratrooper said:


> This surprises me: Military Veterans Send Urgent Letter To National Guard In Ferguson Telling Them To Stand Down


You can find the answer to your question here: March Forward!
...and here: Veterans' appeal to National Guard: "Stand with Ferguson protesters, not the police!"

When an organization describes 'teenage thug Michael Brown as "an unarmed, college-bound Black youth," you know that its leadership, rank, and file have taken leave of their senses, and that they have swallowed the Politically-Correct, Progressive party line whole and unquestioningly.

Critical thinking is dead.


----------



## Goldwing

Well said!
Goldwing


----------



## pic

GCBHM said:


> By the way, pic, I had pretty much the same reaction the first time I had this discussion with someone who introduced me to facts I was not aware of regarding Lincoln. I defended Lincoln furiously, though, and fought to preserve my illusion of him vehemently. But when I began to search it out for myself, my mind began to change as I saw the truth.
> 
> You and I get along very well on here, and I intend to maintain that, so please understand my intent is not to offend you, or even educate you. Again, I responded to your question of what I think about slavery, etc. I hope you do understand that.


I understand and respect your facts or opinion, I didn't mean to edge you on. 
:yawinkle:


----------



## PT111Pro

> Dude - you watch The View? Srsly?


Well - It is not my daily best. I turn the local ch 7 on for the forecast and they switch automatically over after i'll think 8 am.

It is so sad for me to see what happen. I joined the US military only because I grow up in after WWII Europe and I get called NAZI even when I was to little to understand what that means. Later when I ask the people that had survived the idiocy, why the people elected this Liberals, I become the answer that they didn't know what the real Liberal agenda was and they had no other choice besides vote for the conservative Christians.

Is it really that way again and again, that in the future a woman in public, in bright day light can be raped open between 20 people and no one get involved because the rapist is African American and the people fear the left wing media and their months and months long hate speeches so they look the other way?
Is it really this way that the police when called to a crime scene ask what skin color the perpetrator has and just don't show if the criminal is black because they fear the liberal media with their hate and liberal politicians?

What kind of America will that be. I am too old to change a lot. But I look o the young people and the most don't even comprehend what going on at the moment and have absolutely no idea about communistic political tools and how they use it.

That is sad, very sad.

Is it really so desirable to have a society that is rape, burglaries violence and killing a normal daily event when a African American causing it? What greater good shall that serve?

Well - I guess the most people laugh about me, many think I am an old idiot that has no idea what going on. Well - OK, but don't say no one ever had told you.

End.


----------



## PT111Pro

It is amazing what the liberal racists can make out of a robbery like it happen every day in any given country and continent.

What did really happen in Ferguson?

A well known criminal with a criminal record longer than the Mississippi robbed a store.
The Store owner get hit by the criminal and called 911.
The criminal fleet the scene.
The police arrived and the LEO stopped the criminal.
The criminal revused the arrest and starting fighting against the police officer and tryed to reach the police gun.
The police officer shot the criminal.

Happen every day several times in all cities bigger than 50 000. No one makes a race case out of it.

Not so in Ferguson. All the world wide well known liberal racists came out and with the left media a case was created bigger than WWII.

The outcome is many little people owning a store and concerned to make ends meat are ruined by Liberal, democrats and their politically agenda.

This is on the bottom line what happen in Ferguson. Nothing more.

Ferguson is the first City in the United States of America that is given to the democratic liberal street mob, to destroy an entire city. Which city is next?: Yours?


----------



## GCBHM

Steve M1911A1 said:


> You can find the answer to your question here: March Forward!
> ...and here: Veterans' appeal to National Guard: "Stand with Ferguson protesters, not the police!"
> 
> When an organization describes 'teenage thug Michael Brown as "an unarmed, college-bound Black youth," you know that its leadership, rank, and file have taken leave of their senses, and that they have swallowed the Politically-Correct, Progressive party line whole and unquestioningly.
> 
> Critical thinking is dead.


Could not agree more! The "protesters" are thugs being labeled as protesters by liberal media to promote their agenda of division simply b/c it is good news. No other reason.


----------



## GCBHM

pic said:


> I understand and respect your facts or opinion, I didn't mean to edge you on.
> :yawinkle:


Well, let me also say this. I respect the fact that you always have a pleasant demeanor, and seek to maintain peace. I didn't think you "edged" on me as much as I wanted to ensure you understood I'm not trying to disrespect or offend you. Sentiment and tone are often misinterpreted when in print. My tone is in no way condescending or high minded.


----------



## phudd

Seems like all of our history is revisionist history. The events in Ferguson are being re-written as they happen, sometimes before. Nobody seems to care about the actual evidence. All those people still wearing their hands up T shirts even after the autopsy clearly showed that Browns hands were in no way "up"


As for the comments on the "Civil War", I personally find that term offensive. This country has never had a civil war. Referring to the USA's illegal and unwarranted invasion and occupation of the Confederate states of America as a civil war is an outright lie. 
civ·il war, noun, a war between citizens of the same country.
As secession was completely legal at the time, the war of northern aggression was an unprovoked invasion by a foreign nation.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

...Besides which, there is nothing "civil" about war.


----------



## pic

phudd said:


> As for the comments on the "Civil War", I personally find that term offensive. This country has never had a civil war. Referring to the USA's illegal and unwarranted invasion and occupation of the Confederate states of America as a civil war is an outright lie.
> civ·il war, noun, a war between citizens of the same country.
> As secession was completely legal at the time, the war of northern aggression was an unprovoked invasion by a foreign nation.


:goofy:


----------



## GCBHM

phudd said:


> Seems like all of our history is revisionist history. The events in Ferguson are being re-written as they happen, sometimes before. Nobody seems to care about the actual evidence. All those people still wearing their hands up T shirts even after the autopsy clearly showed that Browns hands were in no way "up"
> 
> As for the comments on the "Civil War", I personally find that term offensive. This country has never had a civil war. Referring to the USA's illegal and unwarranted invasion and occupation of the Confederate states of America as a civil war is an outright lie.
> civ·il war, noun, a war between citizens of the same country.
> As secession was completely legal at the time, the war of northern aggression was an unprovoked invasion by a foreign nation.


Secession is still legal, and should be considered as a viable option. Actually, I believe Texas recently considered it.


----------



## SailDesign

PT111Pro said:


> Well - It is not my daily best. I turn the local ch 7 on for the forecast and they switch automatically over after i'll think 8 am.
> 
> It is so sad for me to see what happen. I joined the US military only because I grow up in after WWII Europe and I get called NAZI even when I was to little to understand what that means. Later when I ask the people that had survived the idiocy, why the people elected this Liberals, I become the answer that they didn't know what the real Liberal agenda was and they had no other choice besides vote for the conservative Christians.
> 
> Is it really that way again and again, that in the future a woman in public, in bright day light can be raped open between 20 people and no one get involved because the rapist is African American and the people fear the left wing media and their months and months long hate speeches so they look the other way?
> Is it really this way that the police when called to a crime scene ask what skin color the perpetrator has and just don't show if the criminal is black because they fear the liberal media with their hate and liberal politicians?
> 
> What kind of America will that be. I am too old to change a lot. But I look o the young people and the most don't even comprehend what going on at the moment and have absolutely no idea about communistic political tools and how they use it.
> 
> That is sad, very sad.
> 
> Is it really so desirable to have a society that is rape, burglaries violence and killing a normal daily event when a African American causing it? What greater good shall that serve?
> 
> Well - I guess the most people laugh about me, many think I am an old idiot that has no idea what going on. Well - OK, but don't say no one ever had told you.
> 
> End.


We are all the products of our earlier lives. The best we can do is to try to work together to bring peace and understanding to the World. Labels get in the way (Nazi/Lib'rul/Tea-bagger, etc.) and pit us against each other. The chicken-hawks love that - there is profit in adversity.

The answer is to stop fighting each other, and just be. Some folks like guns, some don't (silly people) - some like football, some don't. Get over it - we're all different.

Shooting stuff is fun! Let's just do that.


----------



## GCBHM

Let us away.


----------



## PT111Pro

> The answer is to stop fighting each other, and just be. Some folks like guns, some don't (silly people) - some like football, some don't. Get over it - we're all different.
> Shooting stuff is fun! Let's just do that.


I'll think you are right, very right that is. Hope you reincarnatye as a bird to fly over the misery for the future generations.

You know there is a old story:

First they went and killed the People in Ferguson and I didn't care because I didn't live in Ferguson.
Than they came and killed all handicapped people and I didn't care because I was not handicapped.
Than they went and killed all people that had blue eyes and I didn't care because I had no blue eyes.
Than the went and killed all that own a Motorcycle and I didn't care because I don't own a Motorcycle.
And than.........
And than.........
And than they came to kill me and there were no one left that could care about me.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

PT111Pro said:


> I'll think you are right, very right that is. Hope you reincarnatye as a bird to fly over the misery for the future generations.
> 
> You know there is a old story:
> 
> First they went and killed the People in Ferguson and I didn't care because I didn't live in Ferguson.
> Than they came and killed all handicapped people and I didn't care because I was not handicapped.
> Than they went and killed all people that had blue eyes and I didn't care because I had no blue eyes.
> Than the went and killed all that own a Motorcycle and I didn't care because I don't own a Motorcycle.
> And than.........
> And than.........
> And than they came to kill me and there were no one left that could care about me.


You have created an excellent, modern version of an old political statement. Kudos!

I hope that you won't mind, if I tell the story of its origin.

The original was written by Pastor Martin Niemoller, originally about the Nazis and their "concentration" camps.
During WW1, Niemoller was a very successful U-Boat commander. He was awarded the Iron Cross First Class.
After the war, he resigned his Navy commission and became a Protestant minister.
Initially, he supported Hitler and the National Socialist government. Then he saw their horrific excesses, preached against them, and was himself sent to first Sachsenhausen and then Dachau. He survived his imprisonment.


----------



## Cait43

paratrooper said:


> This surprises me: Military Veterans Send Urgent Letter To National Guard In Ferguson Telling Them To Stand Down


I did see the letter....... However the website is now offline for viewing....

I think these active and veteran personnel failed to see that the so called peaceful protest are far from peaceful.........


----------



## Steve M1911A1

You can access the website by going in through its "home" page, at: March Forward!


----------



## DJ Niner

Well, as the original subject of this thread is now old news, and the thread itself has kind of gone off the rails a few times, I'm going to close it now. Folks can feel free to start another thread about more current events revolving around this matter.

But I'd ask everyone to try to keep a little closer to the original subject matter, in the future. If you see something that you want to respond to that is off-subject, go ahead and start another thread on the new subject, but let's not drag an existing thread off into the weeds. I know it's hard to keep this in mind when you've got something to say and you're chomping at the bit to say it (deity knows, I've taken a few threads off-track in my life), but I'd like to see a bit more effort in this area.

Thanks!


----------

