# Big dot 24/7



## Recycooler (Apr 7, 2009)

Has anyone installed XS Big Dot 24/7 sights on their Kahr? I was wondering how hard or easy it is and if they are happy with them.:smt1099


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

XS Sights doesn't have any models listed for the Kahr line of pistols on their sight, do you know of a set that works for Kahrs?


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## Recycooler (Apr 7, 2009)

Yeah Right on Kahrs website http://www.kahrshop.com/acc_moredetail.html#bdts


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I had Big Dots on my Kahr P-45, and I did not care for them.

But, I'm an old-timer who likes to draw a fine bead and try to shoot tight groups at 15-20 yards, unlike most pistol shooters I encounter, these days.

They are great for snap shooting at close range, though, so if you are happy with 6" groups at 7 yards, you will probably like them.

As for intallation, the rear sight on Kahrs are notorious for being very tight in the dovetail. I tried to change one, once, and gave up. The front sight on the older model K-9's is sometimes held by a spring-loaded pin, and is not too hard to remove, but I can't say about the newer ones, or other models.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Bisley said:


> I had Big Dots on my Kahr P-45, and I did not care for them.
> 
> But, I'm an old-timer who likes to draw a fine bead and try to shoot tight groups at 15-20 yards, unlike most pistol shooters I encounter, these days.
> 
> ...


BS. You can still get good groups using the XD dot sights.

I did the following with my Sig 220 using Big Dot sights.










Yeah they take some getting used to, but once you find the sight picture that works for you they are just as good as partridge style sights.

I would suggest having the sights professionally installed by someone with the proper sight tool. We had a hell of a time putting them on my Sig and my Wife's Kimber, we eventually has to take the Sig to a smith to have the front sight done.

I wonder why XS doesn't have the sight set listed on their website? I was looking for info on aftermarket sights for Kahrs and was coming up dry on most makers websites....

This was one of my Wife's groups at 10ish yards with a 3" Kimber using standard XS dot sights, not too great, but she was recovering from a sprained wrist at the time.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> BS. You can still get good groups using the XD dot sights.


I didn't say I was Wild Bill Hickok. I just said I didn't care for Big Dot sights on a sub-compact .45.

The Dot is larger than the bulls eye past about 7 yards, so please explain to me how to compensate for that by adjusting sight picture.

Now, if you are just talking about the standard dots on the sights of a Springfield XD, then, I agree. I can do that, too.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Bisley said:


> I didn't say I was Wild Bill Hickok. I just said I didn't care for Big Dot sights on a sub-compact .45.
> 
> The Dot is larger than the bulls eye past about 7 yards, so please explain to me how to compensate for that by adjusting sight picture.
> 
> Now, if you are just talking about the standard dots on the sights of a Springfield XD, then, I agree. I can do that, too.


I guess I just must be reading this wrong somehow.



> so if you are happy with 6" groups at 7 yards, you will probably like them.


The bit about the sight picture is that what they list in the "instructions" isn't always what's needed to hit where you want, you need to toy with the sight picture a bit. But as for you saying that 6" groups at 7 yards are normal, average, or to be expected, well that's just bogus.


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## tekhead1219 (May 16, 2008)

:watching:


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> The bit about the sight picture is that what they list in the "instructions" isn't always what's needed to hit where you want, you need to toy with the sight picture a bit.


What instructions?

When the front site covers a circular area on the target that has a diameter of about 6", how do you adjust the sight picture and make it better?

I took this picture, with this 11"x17" target at less than 7 feet away from the Big Dot sight on my Kahr P-45, and the 'Dot' is obviously about the same size as the bulls eye. So, imagine increasing the distance to three times that far away, to get to 7 yards, and the Big Dot is probably going to be covering the first diamond outline...and so on, and so on, at greater distance.










Past about 5-7 yards, you have to just try to center it, as best you can, inside one of the larger circles, or the diamond in this case, because the bulls eye, and a large area around it are covered up by your front sight, if you are on (or close to) the target.



> But as for you saying that 6" groups at 7 yards are normal, average, or to be expected, well that's just bogus.


That is a distortion of what I actually said, but even so, it's probably not far off, for the average shooter. With all the new shooters out there these days, most of the people I see are just spraying silhouette targets at 5 or 7 yards, because that's what self-defense instructors seem to be telling them to do.

I will go along with the idea that a good marksman can learn to compensate and shoot a little better than that, with Big Dots. But, most folks won't...in my opinion.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I'll try and explain a little more in detail.

Regarding sight alignment/sight picture and the XS sights. What the instructions state as proper alignment is as follows:










I've found that this is not always the case and the suggested sight alignment leads towards shots being either high or low. A lot of people seem to think there's something wrong and refuse to deviate from the instructions to play with their sight alignment. Once you find and apply proper sight alignment and apply that to your target (sight picture) you're pretty much good to go at up to about 10-15 yards the projectile is going to go pretty much where that dot is.

Would I try to shoot a bulls eye match with them qt 25-50 yards? Hell no, but those aren't bulls eye sights and that's not what they are intended for.

The people that will get 6" groups with these sights won't do any better with BOMAR, Henie, Millet or any other sight set. Equipment does not make one shoot better all on it's own, yes it can help, but the end user still has to put the work in.

The Big Dot sights are great at what they we're designed for, to provide a front sight that is quick to be acquired.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> Once you find and apply proper sight alignment and apply that to your target (sight picture) you're pretty much good to go at up to about 10-15 yards the projectile is going to go pretty much where that dot is.


Okay, you can use a 'six o'clock' sight picture, 'balancing' the bullseye on top of the 'ball,' and then make a further adjustment against the 'post' on the rear sight, to compensate for elevation difference. But that is not something that the casual shooter is likely to do. I used the other method, myself, that I described, above, and didn't do too badly. This is a 10 yard target that I shot, by just centering the "+" as best I could. But still, I was not satisfied with the sights, personally, and that was a factor in my trading the gun.










I don't want to fuss any more, and I have made all the points I wanted to make. I would not have made an issue of it in the first place, except you called 'BS' on me.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

These aren't target sights, they are fast aquisition defensive shooting sights. I personally don't have a need for them. At the ranges where they are effective for defense, all you really need to do it put a "metal over meat" sight picture. But, when you need a more refined sight picture, not having them installed gives you the ability to dial in a bit more.

Zhur


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