# Series of First-timer question...



## wxduff (Jun 16, 2013)

A bit about me to start:

Just moved from NY to PA, looking to exercise my freedoms.
I used to shoot competition .22 in NY as a youth, shot clays, all sorts of long gun stuff.
Took my HSC and have hunted before.
I'm a stocky 5'6", I have smallish hands.
I already have my PA license to carry.

Sadly I do not have a range to "try guns on" at, so what I feel under moderate pressure to do a good job on purchase day. I have 2 main concerns, picking the right style of firearm, and caliber choice.

Caliber choice is difficult because I have no handgun experience. I know how my 30-30 feels vs my 12 ga. or .22, but that's useless now.

I've narrowed down to 9mm, 40 S&W, and .45 ACP.

9mm seems nice because it's affordable to shoot and still powerful enough for CC with the right defensive load (I know this is relatively up for debate, but it seems that .380 is more controversial than 9mm)
.45 has more stopping power but other than that is seems to have no real advantage.
.40 is a middle ground???

I guess my lean is 9mm if whatever gun "feels right" is available in either caliber, however unless I'm steered away from it on here, I'm willing to go .45 ACP if all us feels right.

The bigger question is what style to pick?
My initial inclination was a single stack polymer "glock" styled pistol. The short list included the M&P Shield, the SR-9, an XD, a PPS, or a Taurus Gen 2...

However if it's concealable, I really think a budget 1911 or a "duty gun???" would be more enjoyable to shoot at the range and I like the idea of a safety other than the trigger one's (I guess because I'm used to long guns)
The short list there includes a Remington 1911 standard, a Beretta 92fs, a Taurus 1911, a Para USA 1911, or others (please feel free to suggest something!)

For my uses, which will be range shooting and concealed carry, please help me out here. I've done a lot of research but my experience level is making it difficult to match all this gargon with my needs. I really want to try to pick out the right gun the first time.

My MAX budget is 600 dollars for the gun itself (extra ammo, holster, etc will be a second trip), although I'd prefer to spend less than 500 to afford some accessories that day.
Here is the flyer from the shop I will be visiting. They simply have the best prices and best stock in my area and my friend has vouched for them: ISSUU - Grice Gun Shop: Summer Savings 2013 by DigitalWires Inc.

Unless you can sweet talk me into a revolver, I'm leaving it out as an option. I'm competent in my ability to take apart and clean a moderately complex gun, and the style just doesn't appeal to me.

I appreciate any help.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Where at in PA are you located?

Most 1911s that I would suggest are out of your price range, the River SR1911 in either the 5" or 4.25" would be close and a better option for a 1911 that what you listed. Avoid the PT1911, I've not seen a single sample that I would consider to be worth their price, even when they cost $450.

Glock, Beretta, Smith&Wesson, Walther etc are all good choices. 

I used to live in PA and there's a lot of good shops with ranges for you to check out depending on where you are.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

That's a great price in the add for the Smith and Wesson M&P's in .40 and 9mm. Excellent guns with great feel and handling.

Don't know why you want single stacked mag over a higher capacity one. Most of the defensive/combat pistols use double stacked magazines and are very good for carry. Your desire to have a settable safety is going to reduce your selection list a bit. Give that some thought. Hard to tell you where to start your search or which guns to consider. There are just so many from which to choose. Keep an open mind and don't just discount a candidate because of some perceived idea (like the externally settable safety). And stay with the proven products. Since you are of a mind to carry, don't limit yourself too much on price. After all, how much is your life worth to you?

I could name of a lot of different pistols for you to review but that is not going to accomplish much. I'm sure some of the responders on this thread will do this anyway. But you really need to at least handle your candidate choices to see how they fit and feel in your hand, how the sights line up, and if they will be natural to you. Find a major gun show you can attend for starters. And then visit as many gun shops as you can. Don't rush this, otherwise you may just find that you are buying and selling guns until you come up with something (this is pretty common).


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## XD40inAVL (Feb 1, 2013)

I carry an XD40sc, because it is a "middle ground" caliber (IMHO). Nothing has "knock down" power, i.e. taking a bad guy off his feet, but the .40S&W delivers basically the same physical energy into the target as a .45ACP, with the advantage of greater round capacity. I choose to think of it as "you made a poor choice when you chose me as your victim power". With my XD40 sub-compact I carry 9 +1 with the non-extended mag, giving me 10 rounds for the initial contact, and a second extended mag with 12 is carried often.

But I wouldn't want to be shot with any of them, and people have successfully defended themselves with .22's.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I love the 9 x19mm round, and feel it is a good compromise for power and shoot ability. JMHO.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

As far as "knock down power" there's no real benefit in choosing .40 over .45, or over 9mm etc.

There's a couple of threads in the ammo section of the forum that are very factual and have lots of good data. The big difference is goin to be in capacity and that's where the 9mm wins.

Personally I am not fond of the .40 when it comes to new shooters. Most new handgun shooters when paired with a lighter weight .40 come away with more issues such as recoil anticipation, flinching and poor trigger control.

In polymers I like 9mm, in steel I like 45s.


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## Jayghf1978 (Jun 11, 2013)

I asked those same questions and was showered with excellent advices, I will relay those to you.

Most make and model will have both the 9mm and the .40 available to you, with the 9mm version generally a bit more in price. You make those back in cheaper ammo price. A box of 50 rounds 9mm run you about 17, .40 about $5 more. Do the math. As VAmarine mentioned, the 9mm luger in theory is less power, but just as effective in any situations. I would recommend the 9mm solely based on the price.

So many makes and models to choose from, hard to select one before enough time to test out. I personally love the CZ products, sadly they are more very hard to find. P07 Duty is the lone exception, and a great choice. Smith and Wesson M&P is another one of my favorites. I also like the Ruger, but SR9 is the full size pistol, you want SR9c. Both the Walther PPS and the Springfield XDs are solid choices, but the XDs might run more than 600. I think Taurus is ok, but generally perceived as low end.

So many excellent options, and you will be happy with any of them. Especially the CZ.

Good luck.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I have a Springfield XDM 3.8 9mm that is great for either role. It has a 13 rd mag that small enough for concealment and a 19 rd mag for home or range use. It is very accurate and the gun shoots softer with the +P+ ammo than some steel frame models.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Kittery Trading Post of Maine has 36 40mm Shields and 1 9mm Shield in stock for $429.00 plus $35.00 shipping.......
Kittery Trading Post

I purchased a 9mm Shield from Kittery 2 months ago(great weapon for CC and shoots smooth)..... Got it 2 days after my FFL faxed his license to Kittery........


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## wxduff (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks for all the posts so far.

From what I've gathered, all of my choices on Caliber are acceptable, but 9mm is probably the best for capacity and ammo cost reasons.

1911's look nice, but it will be hard to find one in my price range, and it also seems after further research that I may need to do more mechanical tweeking than I expected, not a huge deal but not as easy to just take out of the box and work with.

To answer specific questions:
I'm located in Central, PA near the Lamar/Bellefonte area.
The single stack was proposed do to the thinner handle, which would allow me a better grip with my smaller hands.

New Questions from me:
The ATI and Para 1911's both fit in my price range. Do they fall under the "unreliable cheap 1911 mindset" the Taurus does?
Are all Taurus pistols not worth looking into? I like the 800 series, it's available compact in 9mm and has an external hammer, which I really like.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Thanks for all the posts so far.
> 
> From what I've gathered, all of my choices on Caliber are acceptable, but 9mm is probably the best for capacity and ammo cost reasons.
> 
> ...


The Rock Island Tactical in 9mm isn't a bad buy as far as 1911s go.

Para...can be hit and miss. I've had good luck with four of the older guns but my brother-in-laws Naval unit ordered a batch of custom pistols and they were plenty of problem guns. This was about two years ago, they seem to go in cycles of bad and not bad. If you're on a limited budget, I would not go with the ATI or the Para, but if it HAD to be one of those two, I would probably opt for the Para Ordnance.

As for the Taurus line. The general consensus is that if you are looking to do a lot of shooting with the gun, your money is better spent elsewhere. When you talk to a lot of people that work in firearms retail that are honest (and not trying to sell you a gun) they will tell you that they send a LOT of Taurus products back for repair. The lemon rate in the Taurus world is pretty high.

If it were my money, I would not buy one.

If you like hammer fired guns I would check out Beretta and *FNH FNX Line*, perhaps* CZ* as well.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Most of the main points have been covered, but here are a couple of random thoughts.

Skip the Taurus - half of the people who own them like them - that's not enough.

If you are new to pistols, 9mm is a sensible choice. An experienced pistol shooter can probably shoot the others just as well, but a 9mm will be the most comfortable and least expensive to practice with, and if you can hit where you aim, it will probably save your life just as surely as something bigger. It's the safest bet, since you aren't going to be trying out a lot of different stuff.

A striker fired pistol is the simplest to use, IF you are trained to keep your finger off the trigger until you are prepared to destroy whatever is in front of the muzzle. There are lots of very good ones out there in your price range.

Don't try to jump off into the handgun world with a subcompact. You will be very frustrated with your inability to hit what you aim at, and will always suspect your equipment rather than understand the difficulty of learning to shoot precisely with a very short sighting radius. A full or medium sized semi-auto will be much easier to learn with, and can be concealed just fine with the right holster, belt, and mode of dress. Get used to the idea that carrying a gun is going to be very uncomfortable.


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## wxduff (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks for all the help everyone. After looking at the CZ models I think I'm going to start there...
They come in 9mm
They have a range of sizes to try
They have the 1911 features I want (SA/DA,)
It has an external safety

The only problem is the place I was planning on going does not distribute CZ firearms.

Instead I would have to buy from a Gander Mountain, and would be limited to the p-07, although that was the one I had my eye on: CZ-USA -> CZ P-07 Duty

I'll be heading out to look around once the Tax Return comes back. It's stupid late this year and the IRS is sending me in circles. I'm sure its because I'm a libertarian. :smt083


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## wxduff (Jun 16, 2013)

Ended up going to out to clearfield. Tried on a whole range of guns, including m&ps, xd's, berettas and more. Went with the px4 storm in subcompact. Already sent 200 practice rounds downrange, no issues. The storm just pointed so much nicer and felt better in my hands compared to the more blocky alternatives.

Thanks for the help everyone. Now to find a course to help me shoot better and carry properly.


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