# updated my old thread with this new one.



## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

a step up above my old thread (cleaned up, and for those that have seen it before.
well after reading and shooting some handguns, i came up with this list some i havent shot and would like to know about it

i dont mind stepping up to a 40s&w its not much more to shoot but i hear the recoil is a little bad, but that can be controlled. (yes i have shot everything from .22lr to 44mag

1. bretta 92fs love that gun. and enjoyed shooting it (tight groups at 8yrds). or i can get the m9 for a lot more. but the rail isnt really a need.
2. fns9 havent shot one or held one. my buddy loves them and has one in a 45acp. but wont get a caliber that high
3. mr9 Magnum Research MR9 Eagle, 15 Round, 4.5-Inch Barrel - Style # MRFA915FL, MRI Shop / Firearms
4. mr40 for less (i really like the looks of it but cant find the gun anywhere) havent shot one let alone hold one.
5. pmr 30 havent shot, but held and liked it its a little small in my hands though but i can deal with it. and from what i read they have issues with firing. but people still want them. 
6. also this is on the list Magnum Research Baby Desert Eagle II Semi-Auto Handgun DA/SA Full 9mm 4.52" 15 Rounds Polymer Frame Black the desert eagle 2 in 9mm
7. sig p250 (if i read correctly i can swap barrels which would be nice.)

(2-7) i havent shot. to make things easy.

i am in a pickle, the rent gun range is a 2hr drive, and to test. spent 54 for 3 guns. and they really dont have a great section to test fire. i know at least test fire a gun before you buy it, but the shops around here i can only hold it, which is ok, but firing and seeing how well it groups is the unknown that may keep me from buying one. so all this running to the range takes my money that i can put towards a handgun. but at least i know what guns i like now.

the guns i shot at the range so with that list above ^ does the guns 2-4 and 6, 7 shoot (decent trigger)/group pretty good.
1. m&p 9 hated it mostly trigger pull was bad
2. glock17 was ok. but may not get it. 
3. 92fs which i would buy due to how it shot.
4. s-field xdm it was ok. had a tight group as well.

i appreciate the help.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

It is time to snatch pebble from hand grasshopper.:numbchuck:


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If the gun feels good ,, ask permission to dry fire the gun. Check out the reliability reviews.
You tube is one great source. 
How are you going to carry the gun. I prefer a manual safety, many don't.
There isn't a perfect gun for every situation. Determine what is your primary reason for buying the gun and go for it.
Good luck


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

the gun is going to be cased 99% of the time. unloaded. i may end up getting a holster for the gun i chose. 

dry fire works on most guns but not really that good, due to the action on some guns. like the bretta 92fs.

i have looked at reviews for the guns i had on my list. what they dont tell ya is the bad, like the problems on the kel tec pmr30. thats why i look at forums, people on here always give the good, bad and the ugly.

only gun i want something i can get a decent group, i would upload a pic of what i did at the range with the 92fs, but cant..


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

doveslayer21 said:


> the gun is going to be cased 99% of the time. unloaded. i may end up getting a holster for the gun i chose.


Seems to me that if your intention is to have the weapon cased 99% of the time and it will be unloaded it doesn't much matter what weapon you purchase......


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## borris (Oct 28, 2012)

denner said:


> It is time to snatch pebble from hand grasshopper.:numbchuck:


 It's Time You Need To Put Both Feet On The Ground And Stick With Your Choice brokenimage .


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

All the guns you mentioned will group better than you can. 

Since you seem comfortable with various calibers, it will all come down to whichever gun feels the best in your hands, and which gun "points" the best.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The only guns I have bothered to test fire first were those that I liked but was unfamiliar enough with some feature to make me unsure about it. For example, I test-fired several Kahrs before buying a PM-9. Oddly enough, the Kahr was one of the ones I swapped after a couple years because the trigger reach was way too short for me and the trigger guard kept my finger chewed up, if I used my normal grip. Initially, I was willing to modify my grip to gain the pocket carry capability, but I eventually decided that it was really still too bulky for ideal pocket carry, so I traded for something that I could shoot normally, without having to modify the grip that works so well for me with all my other handguns.

If you have practiced a lot with handguns and have good fundamentals, you should be able to shoot almost any good quality handgun pretty well. Sight picture and trigger control are the keys to accurate shooting, and to get those two things down pat, you will probably have to become fairly adept at using a good grip and stance. It takes more rounds than you would normally fire with a rented gun to make the final judgment on whether a handgun is a keeper - at least it does for me.

I say, if you like the way a gun feels in your hand and you seem able to point it easily with your normal grip, go for it.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

*1. m&p 9 hated it mostly trigger pull was bad*
This is a fine gun and if it felt good in your hand and was a natural pointer, you can always correct any trigger problems for a small cost.

*2. glock17 was ok. but may not get it. *
Another excellent choice and also an easily fixable trigger to one's specific requirements. Proven reliability and quite accurate if you use quality aftermarket sights.

*3. 92fs which i would buy due to how it shot.*
While not a fan of double action pistols, this is one of the best and I own one of its clones. This one is a classic. If you like the 92 series and double actions in general, check out the CZ 75. Just replace that horrendous 20 pound hammer spring something a lot lighter and you'll have an excellent double action pistol.

*4. s-field xdm it was ok. had a tight group as well.*
I don't care for the XD series that much because they tend to have a rather high bore axis (as does the Beretta 92 series). But the XS's are very good guns if they fit your needs.

Pic mentioned that he likes manually settable safeties on his carry guns. I'm in the opposite camp in that I do not want any such thing on my carry guns. All I want to have to worry about is getting that gun into action quickly and decisively. This is a personal choice and one to consider in your carry stable of sidearms. Another is weight and size, which you don't seem to be concerned about since you mentioned the Beretta 92FS. In other words, defining you specific wants, needs, and requirements is VERY important in your decision. Good that you are trying to check out your selections at the range when possible.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

I wouldn't get hung up on needing to actually fire a particular gun (before purchase)... sometimes it's just not possible due to model or availability. Don't pass up on something that you like (grip, sights, etc) just because you can't shoot it first. I've bought 90% of my guns without firing them first... never disappointed yet. It is not as crucial as most think imo. Firing a gun to decide on caliber would be more important to see how manageable each is for your age/size/skill level.

Hold the guns your interested in, get a good grip and see how it feels. Take your time, don't feel rushed... your trying to see if this hunk of metal & polymer is worth your hard earned money. Don't let sales people rush you either... some are breathing down your neck as your looking, pay them no mind... it's their job to assist you. Look to see how the grip angle is (look for how it "points", it should feel natural) and check to see if the texture of the grip meets your needs. Grips can always be swapped out or improved too.

Ask to try the trigger (most will say "yes" ) and feel the trigger pull... feel the slack/take up, press till you hit the "wall" (point of resistance) and feel the point the shot will break (should feel crisp). Also, check the reset (can you feel & hear it?). A lot of times I will close my eyes while doing this to cut out distractions and focus on what i'm feeling and hearing. Understand that some triggers smooth out and improve over time... and others stay the same no matter how many rounds go through it. It just depends on how refined or polished the trigger is. My CZ was noticeably better after a few hundred rounds, while my Sig's & Beretta's have always been good to go out of the box.

Look down the sights... how easy are they to "pick up" with your eyes? How long is the sight radius? Are you looking for certain sights? Are they fixed, adjustable? Do you care? 

Eject the mag and see if it drops freely. Insert the mag to see if the gun has positive retention when inserted. Utilize the slide lock, feel how the slide moves on the rails and how much tension the spring has.

Almost all guns you will shoot will be accurate, at least in skilled hands. Some have a learning curve and others seem more natural. I have no doubt that with practice & dedication you will shoot any gun you purchase as accurately or more accurately than you hope. At some point you need to make that decision... it should be something your comfortable with. 

There is always the idea (a good one too) of getting a second gun down the road if you are torn between makes/models... most of us have more handguns than we can shoot in an afternoon at the range... I don't think there is ONE perfect gun as I wouldn't part with any of my current handguns, and couldn't choose a favorite. Some months, one handgun will get more use than another, but I enjoy them all the same. Variety is a good thing, each have different purposes and strong points. 

Hope these tips aid you in your quest.


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

thanks guys, a lot of info here since i posted last
i dont think a 40s&w will be bad to shoot a lot of rounds through. only guns i really dont like shooting at the range, is the bigger caliber handguns ie, 45acp (stuff like that) i can handle it decently. but its not really something that i would want to shoot all day. and normally i can burn up a box pretty quick if i wanted to. back in the day during a practice i could burn about a box of ammo up.

i am not sure what a high bore axis is? sourthern.

also not sure what this is "Polygonal Rifling" the desert eagle 2 9mm has that. first time i have heard of that. 


tap i have thought about the CZ as well but havent found a store that has one. and dry firing a gun, like the bretta its a DA/SA style. so it wont be worth it to fire right? also your right practice does make perfect, i scared myself at the range, yes it was 8yrds (i assume due dont think it was 8ft due to it was a 100yrd range) but i was impressed havent shot like that in a long time. and i still got some time to decide Christmas isnt here yet (when i plan on buying one or close to it). 

on the sights, i really dont have a preference, not sure which is better for all around shooting. i never had to deal with that. just point and shoot per say. but so far the guns i shot, i didnt have an issue with sight picture out of the handguns i have shot. a wild idea is to put a red dot sight on it. but i dont think most handguns offer that setup. 

if i end up with a glock 17 it will have some work done to it. but i am not a huge fan of the safety setup but should really bother me due to it will be cased. until ready to fire.

this is my long term goal is to get into a shooting sports competition like i used to do back in the 4-H with .22lr. but i am over the age limit and had to quit and i havent been in a shooting club ever since then, but i feel that the guns on my list will be great to start off with. speaking of shooting sports can somebody help me, what clubs are there to get into, i got the idpa, and the nra pistol. are there any others? google doesnt help much.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

TAPnRACK said:


> I wouldn't get hung up on needing to actually fire a particular gun (before purchase)... sometimes it's just not possible due to model or availability. Don't pass up on something that you like (grip, sights, etc) just because you can't shoot it first. I've bought 90% of my guns without firing them first... never disappointed yet. It is not as crucial as most think imo. Firing a gun to decide on caliber would be more important to see how manageable each is for your age/size/skill level.


Truth be known, I have never fired a gun at a shop before purchasing it. I have fired friends' guns and later bought ones like them. I can only call a few guns over that years that I bought that were just not comfortable to shoot. They got sold in short enough time.

All of your points in the referenced post are well taken and solid tips to the perspective buyer. Much about a handgun can be learned by handling it. Yes the acid test is shooting it, but if it meets the criteria you have outlined then you are nearly there anyway.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

doveslayer21 said:


> thanks guys, a lot of info here since i posted last
> i dont think a 40s&w will be bad to shoot a lot of rounds through. only guns i really dont like shooting at the range, is the bigger caliber handguns ie, 45acp (stuff like that) i can handle it decently. but its not really something that i would want to shoot all day. and normally i can burn up a box pretty quick if i wanted to. back in the day during a practice i could burn about a box of ammo up.
> 
> i am not sure what a high bore axis is? sourthern.
> ...


*"i dont think a 40s&w will be bad to shoot a lot of rounds through. only guns i really dont like shooting at the range, is the bigger caliber handguns ie, 45acp (stuff like that)"*
Most people will probably tell you, and there is some truth to this, that the .40S&W tends to produce more felt recoil than does the .45ACP. It's certainly not bad and is manageable, especially in firearms designed to handle that caliber. It is my preferred caliber to carry.

*"i am not sure what a high bore axis is? sourthern."*
The bore axis is the alignment of the gun's bore (barrel) in relation to the shooter's hand. If it sits high when you obtain a proper grip on the gun, (there is a fair amount of distance between your hand and the sights), then the gun is said to have a high bore axis. The Beretta 92 series has a higher bore axis than does the Kahr k9 or the Glock 17. Generally speaking, the lower the bore axis the faster the sights can be picked up and aligned to the target.

*"also not sure what this is "Polygonal Rifling" the desert eagle 2 9mm has that. first time i have heard of that."*
Traditional rifling is produced by the button cut method. This type of rifling is the most common and is easily identified when examining the barrel. Polygonal rifling is produced by cold hammering (as I remember) and look like speed bumps when examined. Their advantage is a tighter gas seal resulting in higher velocities when compared to traditional lands and groove rifling. Polygonal rifled barrels tend to be easier to clean as well. Several handgun manufacturers use polygonal rifling. Here are a few links for you to check out;

Polygonal rifling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Polygonal Rifling - YouTube


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

southern, thanks that really helps out.. and thanks for the links, 
so for the idpa shooting i assume the lower bore axis would be key?
(i havent had the need to aim a gun quickly.) 

i guess i need to find a 40s&w to shoot and go from there. if not i will end up getting a 9mm. due to thats what i shot and feel comfortable with. and i would rather get something i know i will enjoy shooting everyday vs something i might not like... i can handle most calibers but 44mag (desert eagle) it was bad when i was younger, now its better but its still bad to shoot though.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

doveslayer21 said:


> southern, thanks that really helps out.. and thanks for the links,
> so for the idpa shooting i assume the lower bore axis would be key?
> (i havent had the need to aim a gun quickly.)
> 
> i guess i need to find a 40s&w to shoot and go from there. if not i will end up getting a 9mm. due to thats what i shot and feel comfortable with. and i would rather get something i know i will enjoy shooting everyday vs something i might not like... i can handle most calibers but 44mag (desert eagle) it was bad when i was younger, now its better but its still bad to shoot though.


*"so for the idpa shooting i assume the lower bore axis would be key?
(i havent had the need to aim a gun quickly.)"*
It certainly would for me. It's been my experience that how a gun feels to someone and whether or not they prefer a lower bore axis or a higher one is really pretty much a personal thing. However, I have to say that I cannot remember ever hearing someone say that they preferred a higher bore axis over a lower one.

If you are going to shoot a lot and want to enter the competitive shooting world in earnest, then 9mm is less expensive than .40S&W and you will likely shoot more of it than you would the .40 stuff. That kinda tells you which gun to concentrate on, but not to worry. Your choices are available in that caliber as well. And there is this.

You can always buy another gun in .40S&W for carry purposes if that is your wont. I have several copies in both calibers just for that, and other, reasons.

As for the venerated .44 Magnum, that's not the best choice for defense against two-legged predators. It was designed and intended for hunting and for that purpose, it is excellent. I've owned three of them and still have one in my collection.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

For IDPA, the 9mm may let you get shots off quicker than a higher recoil caliber... something to consider.

Don't get too hung up on "bore axis", as it is really a personal choice. I have some lower (CZ 75) and higher (Sig 226) axis guns... as long as you train you'll not notice much difference. I wouldn't get too worried about it. 

Focus more on how naturally the gun points for you.


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

Shot some guns today. 
Fns9 really good may end up with it had shooting error.
hk p30? Not really good shooter hated the slide on it.
Springfield xd 9mm with 5.25 barrel only bad thing is the rear safety so high on the grip and I see that high barrel axis comes into play. at 3yrds I shot hole for hole pretty much

Shooting error had my glasses on vs my contacts. 
And was shaking like a dog crapping peach seeds not sure why. Maybe I didnt have my contacts in? But oh well.


They didn't have a desert eagle to test


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

All guns (without mechanical issues) are mechanically accurate - the variable is how YOU shoot them. Buy any gun and train with it and you will become proficient up to your ability level. IMHO, you're really over thinking this and you just need to choose what feels good to you. If IDPA is an interest, get a Glock as mags and accessories are cheap and plentiful and Glocks are very reliable. A Glock 19 is probably the most versatile 9mm on the planet, small enough for easy carry, large enough to shoot well. Or get a Glock 23 with a 9mm barrel and you have the .40 and 9mm in a single platform...


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

NGIB said:


> All guns (without mechanical issues) are mechanically accurate - the variable is how YOU shoot them. Buy any gun and train with it and you will become proficient up to your ability level. IMHO, you're really over thinking this and you just need to choose what feels good to you. If IDPA is an interest, get a Glock as mags and accessories are cheap and plentiful and Glocks are very reliable. A Glock 19 is probably the most versatile 9mm on the planet, small enough for easy carry, large enough to shoot well. Or get a Glock 23 with a 9mm barrel and you have the .40 and 9mm in a single platform...


i have been bullseye shooting for rifle back in the 4h got second (178 out of 200) first place got me by 4 points. in state back in 2012, took 4 years and 3 guns to get it dialed down. but about this idpa, i got an idea of it based on reading on the site but i havent done that before. but it is an interest.

that glock is tempting i was watching videos with the modded trigger and it was nice. i will end up getting the 17 if i get one, prob gen 3.

also with that fns9 it had some major trigger slack. maybe thats just me. but yes i can get around that.


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

i think i am going to buy from cheaper then dirt due to the cheaper prices i got a local dealer that can get me the gun as well if i order online, i just got to give him a heads up so he can get the paper work filled out. 

the fns9 for example. was 600-649 at the store. at ctd, it was 469 saves me coin which i can put on ammo. 
but are the guns new in box though unless i am messing something? i understand i have to pay shipping which is $10 to my location, and a ffl transfer fee maybe so 25-75 guess.... and if i understand this correctly if i dont like it before it gets in my name i can send it back. "Please note! All Firearm Sales are Final
It is important to thoroughly inspect your firearm before completion of the transfer. Once the firearm is transferred into your name, Cheaper Than Dirt! will not accept a return or exchange under any circumstance" taken from the website.

i handled the guns i want to look at expect 1, and i feel good about buying online as well. if i plan this right, it will be a good Christmas present. maybe end of november i can buy one.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I too have purchased guns without shooting them first, but for someone who is already experienced, it isn't as much of a necessity as it could be for someone who has never owned or fired a pistol. I always recommend to someone who has never fired a pistol to shoot one prior to buying one. Anyone who has ample experience firing pistols will already know how a particular pistol will shoot just by holding it for the most part. 

I wouldn't get too hung up on making it a "major" purchase. One can waste too much time and money getting too indepth with selecting a gun. Once you've narrowed your list down to a few, just pick one. The Glock, M&P and FNS are all pretty comparable, so it's really not that big a deal which one you go with. I've owned them all, and they are all fine pistols. You can't go wrong with any of them. Same goes for the 92fs, CZ or Sig. It is just a personal preference thing. I would recommend a CZ over the 92fs and Sig on price point alone. I picked my CZ-75B Omega up for $487+tax, which is quite a steal. You can't get the Sig or the 92fs for that, and the CZ is one fine shooting pistol. 

But as for an EDC pistol, to be honest you're going to be hard pressed to beat a Glock. They are not expensive, they can go longer without cleaning than any other gun on the market (which isn't necessarily adviseable, but a plus), they perform, and there is a ton of accessories for them. Parts are easy to get, and not too expensive, and did I mention they just work? I have the Glock 17 and 19 in Gen 4, and the Glock 42, and all have performed flawlessly. I would get the Glock first. Then as you go, add to your inventory as you wish. I say all that, just to help you make a decision, but I have been carrying the HK VP9 the last several weeks, and if you have not gotten your hands on one, do so. It's a fine piece, but my recommendation is still to get a Glock first. I like the Gen 4s b/c the grips are better for me, and you get an extra magazine for the money.


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

i see what your saying, but to me this is an expensive purchase, and it has to be right. but i do understand its like test driving a car, you can drive any car out there but its when you get it home and drive it everyday is when you become good with it.
i have handled the guns and shot 99% of the ones on my looking list. so buying online may not be a bad thing. 
not sure what edc is? i forget who said but you had to replace the spring on the cz to make it better. gonna have to find one. and hold it if its striker fired, it shouldnt be any different dry firing vs the da/sa like the 92fs. or do i need to do more reading about the difference.

i can get a glock 17 gen 3 for 491 at cheaper then dirt. not bad vs the glock super store had it for close to 500. really thinking about, due to the aftermarket parts. such as this.
Glock 9mm 100 Round C-Mag Magazine - The Firearm Blog um why on a pistol?


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

EDC stand for Every Day Carry.... in other words, the gun you carry either concealed or open.

That 100rd C-mag is designed with Mall Ninjas in mind.


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

TAPnRACK said:


> EDC stand for Every Day Carry.... in other words, the gun you carry either concealed or open.
> 
> That 100rd C-mag is designed with Mall Ninjas in mind.


ya i get what your saying but not sure what mall ninjas are unless i am thinking the same thing? thats a 100 rounds of ammo and could be deadly in the right hands. my buddy has the 100 mag, for his m16 pain to load fun to shoot.

and if i go glock more then likely i will end up with one more then likely the 50 round mag.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I didn't mean to insinuate this isn't an important purchase. Just that once you've done your due diligence, don't be afraid to make a decision. It looks like you have done good research and are ready, but that is up to you. Whether you get the Glock or not, I would go for a striker fire for my EDC gun. Any of these guns you've mentioned would be a good purchase, so go with the one you like best. At the end of the day, if you find you don't like it as well as you thought you can trade or sell it, and then get another one. I've done that plenty, and it can actually be addictive. LOL!!

Mall ninjas are those folks who think they're real specops folks Bc they bought a lot of cool stuff, and in their minds they look cool, like a ninja or something. No one really carries a 100 rnd can.


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## Tip (Aug 22, 2012)

Before running off and buying a gun online consider this -- where you gonna shoot it? 
Guns at the LGS at the range I routinely shoot at generally run $50-$75 HIGHER than online places BUT buying a gun there also includes an annual Membership to the range (usually $199) and that membership drops range fees by 75%.
So sure, I paid a lot more for the gun up front but over the course of the next year saved probably 5-6 times that difference. 
Online doesn't look as attractive anymore....


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Buying a gun online is not necessarily cheaper than buying locally. Most online vendors (like Bud's) charge 3% if you use a credit card and then there may be shipping and there will be the transfer fee from the FFL that receives it for you...


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

H


Tip said:


> Before running off and buying a gun online consider this -- where you gonna shoot it?
> Guns at the LGS at the range I routinely shoot at generally run $50-$75 HIGHER than online places BUT buying a gun there also includes an annual Membership to the range (usually $199) and that membership drops range fees by 75%.
> So sure, I paid a lot more for the gun up front but over the course of the next year saved probably 5-6 times that difference.
> Online doesn't look as attractive anymore....


Very good thinking,
I also , will pay more to the lgs I frequent . It's well worth the better service as you stated.
And if you have an issue or question about something you purchased, they will serve you better. I walk into my lgs , they know I'm a buyer not an online looker. They'll know. My own experience has made that my own opinion. :smt1099


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

Well, may head in a different direction ar15 . 
Local gun shop has a dmps, heavy barrel. For 650$ new they are a grand. Thinking about it, but may be gone by the time I buy it


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

doveslayer21 said:


> Well, may head in a different direction ar15 .
> Local gun shop has a dmps, heavy barrel. For 650$ new they are a grand. Thinking about it, but may be gone by the time I buy it


If you're seriously in the market for an AR, may I suggest the Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport Carbine. Fabulous little AR and one heck of a fine shooter. They can be had for as low as $529 on occasion. Check it out before you commit to any AR.

As for your question regarding someone talking about changing the hammer spring on a CZ 75B, that may have been me. This gun comes with a 20-pound hammer spring which is a bear. I installed a 13-pound hammer spring in its place and it made a huge difference.

Glocks. You can do one heck of a lot to the Glock trigger to get you where you want. I have done this numerous times and it is well worth the very minor cost and the little effort involved.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I have a 20" Heavy Barrel DPMS, on a Rock River lower, set up in a varmint rifle configuration. The DPMS shoots 0.4 MOA with my hand loads - more accurate than most of my bolt rifles, if accuracy is what you're after.


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## doveslayer21 (Sep 29, 2014)

Bisley said:


> I have a 20" Heavy Barrel DPMS, on a Rock River lower, set up in a varmint rifle configuration. The DPMS shoots 0.4 MOA with my hand loads - more accurate than most of my bolt rifles, if accuracy is what you're after.


Nice what yrd is that, (moa is kinda blank to me been awhile since i heard that term)
this is in 16" barrel at the gun shop. hoping it can hold its on. 
If I get it I want to replace the grip with a quad rail and adjustable stock it felt ok but I can get used to it. Gonna be a muti purpose tack driver. found out i can replace the parts i hate, which is good. 
it has a scope on it but that cost as much as the gun, which is $650. for sight my dad has a eotech, that i can use.

Gonna check what competition rules are hoping i can use the heavy barrel.


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