# Wife's anniversary present no workie. PX4 reliability issue?



## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Got the wife a PX4 compact 9 mm for our wedding anniversary. She is super excited to have her first semi auto. Took her to the range today, 2nd round jammed###$*#*#&&#&7#7


Shot 30 rounds of ammo (PMC 115 gr fmj) and 3-4 times per mag, ammo failed to feed. Often a stovepipe, but mostly didn't come up from the magazine. Fired round would eject, but the round from the mag wouldn't feed all the way. Point being, the bullet end of the round would not make it up into the throat of the barrel. It would often be pointing up, perhaps at 45+ degree angle, but not going into the chamber. At times, we would have that along with a stove pipe from the spent round.


I took gun home, cleaned it, double checked manual on assembly, got 100 rounds of Federal 115 gr fmj from Walmart and went back to range just now. I shot 60 rounds with no jamming. Wife still had sporadic jamming (2-3 jams per 40 rounds). I am thinking she was limpwristing likely. Still trying to decide what to do, if anything. Send to Beretta? Change springs? Keep shooting and improve on wife's technique? Reason I wonder, should a gun be that sensitive to limp wristing? I was able to create a jammed case by holding EXTREMELY lightly. Makes me wonder if she had these few jams for this or another reason.


After we used the 100 rounds of Federal ammo, tried to shoot the last 70 or so rounds of PMC. Got the same consistent jammings I spoke of above. Does this gun hate this ammo or what? Felt like all was well with Federal, then the gun is jamming left and right. All I can find online suggest this is very unusual for the PX4. Did we get a lemon perhaps. Just not sure what course to take. Will clean gun now and run out and buy some more ammo and shoot first thing in the morning. Hate for such a sentimental gift to not work perfectly. Any suggestion here would be appreciated. I have shot guns for 20 years and own a dozen assorted semi automatics. Never dealt with anything like this before. 




-Dan


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

Do a test and buy some *Speer Gold dot & Hornady Ammo.This is all I will put in any of my pistols. Old saying,What you buy is what you get.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Plan to and heading to Walmart now to get some ammo for the morning.


However, I (we) shot 200 rounds today and had about 15 FTF, stovepipes, etc..


This is ridiculous for a gun touted as being so reliable. Got to be something more than ammo preference. Right?


Will keep trying to figure it out, but gut says I need a different recoil spring. But can't find one, not sure where to buy it or what to get. The one in the gun is too strong is my instinct. 


I see Beretta recalled this spring/rod a few months back, but when entering my wife's guns serial number, Beretta says we are "OK". Far from it.



Steve in Texas makes stainless guide rods, but uses stock spring. No good. 



Any suggestions for where to buy springs and for that matter, what strength? I don't know what is in the gun now.



Thanks for any comment. This gun has ruined our day. Hoping tomorrow will be better.





-Dan


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## Ra (Jun 28, 2011)

Here is a link on the beretta forum about special frictions spots on the px4 to be aware of. I followed this advice and used Tetra White gun grease and Ballistol Oil. Just an idea.

New PX4 9mm Full Size - questions - Beretta Forum


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks man. I greatly appreciate the input. I have moved the slide with purpose back and forth and can't feel any areas of concern. I will certainly read over the link though in case I am overlooking something. It seems to me the ammo shot today was too light for the recoil spring supplied in the gun. Time will tell. Just got 100 rounds of 147 grain Winchester hollow points and will shoot in morning. If this feeds 100% reliably, I am good to go perhaps. Fingers crossed. Otherwise, looks like I am going to be hunting for a lighter recoil spring which seems very hard to find online.



-Dan


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## rgrundy (Jul 16, 2011)

You said you cleaned it. Did you also clean the magazines? Did you number the magazines to see if it's just one giving trouble? If all this proves okay get permission to send it back. I had a PX4 and it was very reliable.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

I did suspect one magazine initially as we had only taken one to the range. As it turns out, both mags seemed to work the same. The ammo used initially, PMC 115 gr, wouldn't work in either mag, nor at either of the two times we went to the range today. The Federal 115 gr was much better, 60 rounds for me with no issues and only a few times FTE and FTF for the wife. Thoughts are that the recoil spring is too strong for lighter ammo. Got two boxes of 147 grain Winchester and will try it in the morning. Also, got the slide locked open and will leave it this way overnight in hopes of training the spring a bit. If the hotter ammo works 100% of the time, all is well. If not, guess I am going to be looking for a weaker recoil spring although I can't seem to find one online anywhere and not sure what strength is in the gun now. If that doesn't work, guess I am going to send it back to Beretta and wait 4-5 weeks. 



-Dan


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

I would call Beretta Technical Support and get their take on your issues. This won't be the first gun that has UMC ammo issues. Cz's don't shoot UMC that well, either. I would also clean the magazines and wipe the inside spring with a rag with good gun lubricant...one that will last. I would wipe the mag plunger as well with oily tissue. The mags should move smoothly and freely. (Don't oil the mag....just a very light coating)

Also try putting a loaded mag in the gun, then racking the slide to load a round. Then pull the mag out and top off the mag with another round. Reload the magazine and see if it works reliably. I would try the UMC to get your worse case. 

Lastly, make sure you don't leave any oil on the ramp when you clean the gun. The carbon/dust from a bullet will stick to the oil and create a film that can cause FTF's.

But I would take Beretta's technical support advice....they know these guns the best.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks for the input man. I appreciate your willingness to help out. I am heading to the range in a few minutes and will see how the 100 rounds of 147 grain Winchester hollow points perform. If my instinct is correct, this ammo will be powerful enough to move the slide against the overly strong recoil spring. Assuming so, this will correct the feeding issues we saw yesterday. However, with 15+ FTF in 200 rounds yesterday, perhaps I am oversimplifying things. If any problems continue, I will call BUSA and see what course of action they suggest. Guess I should call them anyway now that I think about it. I (she) shouldn't have to shoot hot loads 100% of the time to overcome a design flaw in their gun.



-Dan


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## rgrundy (Jul 16, 2011)

If it's for self defense you need to have 100% confidence in the pistol and right now you don't. Call Beretta, their pistols usually aren't this fussy. I've never had any issues with their products be it pistols or shotguns.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Does it jamb when you shoot it too? Or just when your wife shoots it?


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

This is a very good question. you say it doesn't jam when you shoot it but still does when she shoots. Federal works fine, and PMC jams. It appears to me your wife is limp wristing and you should buy Federal ammo. The gun sounds fine to me. Before you call Beretta be sure your wife has a good grip, and proper trigger technique. I would bet if I fired the gun it would not jam. It has been my experiance that many of what are percieved as gun problems, are in fact operator inexperiance. Some brands of guns do not work with some brands of ammo. they all are made a bit different and as was said before CZ's do not like ammo loaded to the longer OAL. It could be the same with Beretta, I am not sure. If I were you I would be sure all is well in your wifes technque. I would bet because you can run it flawlessly the gun is not a lemon.

I saw someone suggest you oil your mag inners and the spring and the follower. Please do not do this. a light coat of oil on your mag is too much oil on your mag.

RCG


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> ...I saw someone suggest you oil your mag inners and the spring and the follower. Please do not do this. a light coat of oil on your mag is too much oil on your mag.
> 
> RCG


Just make sure that it is perfectly clean. Dirt (especially sand) wrecks havoc with magazines.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I apologize if it appeared I was advocating to not clean your mag, i was not. It is my experiance and my advice that when you do, do it with out oil.

RCG


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> I apologize if it appeared I was advocating to not clean your mag, i was not. It is my experiance and my advice that when you do, do it with out oil.
> 
> RCG


I was agreeing with you and adding to the point. Oil will attract dirt and especially sand. You can apply a light coat of oil as long as wipe it very, very clean afterwards. The small amount that is left (just enough to show finger prints) will provide rust protection and not gum up the works.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Limp wristing is a consideration for sure and I am working on the wife's technique. However, my buddy, my wife, and I all had the gun jam numerous times using PMC. I got the 60 rounds of Federal running smooth, but the wife had 2-3 jams in 40 or so rounds. That is the limp wristing part perhaps. However, I tried to recreate what she could be doing and it didn't take a very "limp" wrist to make the gun jam with Federal. Point being, she is holding the gun with a death grip to make it not jam. I let up my grip pressure just slightly from my normal grip pressure and sure as heck, fail to feed on the next round. While there is some technique in question for the wife, this gun is extremely ammo sensitive. For comparison, my wife has shot 10+ semi autos I own and never had a gun jam. Her technique while not flawless yet, is no worse now than in the past. Likely the opposite. 

My search online has revealed a consistent problem with this particular gun. Several 6-8 page threads on the Beretta forum with tons of guys having the same exact issue as me. Some have sent the gun to BUSA and still having problems. Overly strong recoil spring, Beretta recalled it about 7 months ago. Many (most) guys/gals that got the new spring reported the gun's feeding issues with lighter ammo went away. However, I have the "new" spring, yet I am having the exact same issues that prompted the recall. Folks are shooing 400-600 rounds of 9 mm Nato, higher power offerings, to break this gun (spring) in. Folks are leaving the slide locked open for days at a time to train the spring. Seems people are doing everything but throwing chicken bones in a bloody bowl when they buy this gun. 

Wouldn't it be easier for Beretta to just use a lighter recoil spring? I am sure they have their reasons, but it eludes me at the present. The more I learn the more baffled I am that such a common known issue continues. Beretta did the right thing and made the recall and mailed everyone new springs and polished guide rods. That customer service is allowing me to hold on to hope that I will get faith restored in this gun. After 72 hours of owning this Beretta, it has gave me more issues than the assorted dozen semi autos I own from other manufacturers have over the last 25 years. Time for the tides to change one way or the other.


Ammo sensitive gun with overly strong spring?? 


Use LIGHTER SPRING BERETTA


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I said in the other identical thread you posted.......it is probably your wife. It is very easy to say this gun is a lemon, but if you shoot it fine and she does not, it makes me say Hmmmmmmm.

Get Federal ammo too if it works better.

RCG


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Below is the identical reply I put over there


FYI, I posted in the two sub-forums for a very good reason. As you said yourself above, is it a gun issue specific to the Beretta or something else?




Limp wristing is a consideration for sure and I am working on the wife's technique. However, my buddy, my wife, and I all had the gun jam numerous times using PMC. I got the 60 rounds of Federal running smooth, but the wife had 2-3 jams in 40 or so rounds. That is the limp wristing part perhaps. However, I tried to recreate what she could be doing and it didn't take a very "limp" wrist to make the gun jam with Federal. Point being, she is holding the gun with a death grip to make it not jam. I let up my grip pressure just slightly from my normal grip pressure and sure as heck, fail to feed on the next round. While there is some technique in question for the wife, this gun is extremely ammo sensitive. For comparison, my wife has shot 10+ semi autos I own and never had a gun jam. Her technique while not flawless yet, is no worse now than in the past. Likely the opposite. 

My search online has revealed a consistent problem with this particular gun. Several 6-8 page threads on the Beretta forum with tons of guys having the same exact issue as me. Some have sent the gun to BUSA and still having problems. Overly strong recoil spring, Beretta recalled it about 7 months ago. Many (most) guys/gals that got the new spring reported the gun's feeding issues with lighter ammo went away. However, I have the "new" spring, yet I am having the exact same issues that prompted the recall. Folks are shooing 400-600 rounds of 9 mm Nato, higher power offerings, to break this gun (spring) in. Folks are leaving the slide locked open for days at a time to train the spring. Seems people are doing everything but throwing chicken bones in a bloody bowl when they buy this gun. 

Wouldn't it be easier for Beretta to just use a lighter recoil spring? I am sure they have their reasons, but it eludes me at the present. The more I learn the more baffled I am that such a common known issue continues. Beretta did the right thing and made the recall and mailed everyone new springs and polished guide rods. That customer service is allowing me to hold on to hope that I will get faith restored in this gun. After 72 hours of owning this Beretta, it has gave me more issues than the assorted dozen semi autos I own from other manufacturers have over the last 25 years. Time for the tides to change one way or the other.


Ammo sensitive gun with overly strong spring?? 


Use LIGHTER SPRING BERETTA


(or at least sell me one)




-Dan


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh, and for what it is worth, I am not one of those know it all smart asses. All your contributions to this thread are truly appreciated. I found this forum searching for info, but won't disappear after my gun starts working. Just didn't know you guys existed till the other day. I am well aware that many "gun problems" are user error. My buddy and I are avid shooters, he shoots IDPA every weekend, both former correction officers, etc.. The wife is not 5' 100 lbs and barely holding the gun. Although I can see how such a mental image could arise when reading my post. We shoot guns often and love it. I have never had a reliability issue like this and it has me baffled. That is why I am here begging for help. It is not my intention to bad mouth a gun generally regarded as super reliable by 99% of accounts I have found before and after it's purchase. Just can't understand why we are having so many issues with this gun. Thanks for your patience and any further comment. I would really appreciate some outside opinions if anyone has any firm thoughts. Limpwristing, ammo, magazines, gun cleanliness, etc.. are all factored in of course, but something is wrong with this gun. Heading to range now with 100 rounds of 147 grain hp. Fingers crossed.



-Dan


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

*Threads merged*

No reason for two topics on the same issue.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Very well. Just put it in the manufacturer specific forum and semi-automatic forum initially because I didn't know if the problem was specific to the gun or not.

The issue is clearly the gun...

*Limp wristing is a consideration for sure and I am working on the wife's technique. However, my buddy, my wife, and I all had the gun jam numerous times using PMC. I got the 60 rounds of Federal running smooth, but the wife had 2-3 jams in 40 or so rounds. That is the limp wristing part perhaps. However, I tried to recreate what she could be doing and it didn't take a very "limp" wrist to make the gun jam with Federal. Point being, she is holding the gun with a death grip to make it not jam. I let up my grip pressure just slightly from my normal grip pressure and sure as heck, fail to feed on the next round. While there is some technique in question for the wife, this gun is extremely ammo sensitive. For comparison, my wife has shot 10+ semi autos I own and never had a gun jam. Her technique while not flawless yet, is no worse now than in the past. Likely the opposite.*

*In case anyone finds this thread down the road,* perhaps having the same problem as me, the below links will be of use to you.

Links where MANY other folks have had the same problem with this same gun (PX4 compact)....

PX4 Storm Fail to Feed - Beretta Forum

PX4 Storm Upgrade Kit Now Available from BUSA (COMPACT MODEL ONLY) - Beretta Forum

I have been reading for 2 days straight and the recoil spring is too tight. The recall Beretta issued earlier this year was supposed to fix this by changing the spring and guide rod. However, I am having the exact same issue with this gun. I think we had 15+ fail to feeds in the first 200 rounds using two different brands of ammo and three shooters, two of which are very experienced. I gave careful attention to all possible causes of the gun failing to feed. Limp wristing, while easy for you and others to suggest, is not the cause of the problems.

To make things CRYSTAL CLEAR, the recoil spring is so tight the slide is not going back far enough to catch the next round (in the mag) on the follow through. This is also why the slide would not stay locked back upon firing the last round. The spring is too tight. Period. We (three people) have shot 300 rounds (three different types of ammo) in the gun in the last 24 hours. This gun does not well represent the dependability that Beretta is known for. The same reputation that led to the purchase of this gun in the first place.

On a more positive note, we shot 100 rounds of 147 grain just now at the range and the gun was 100% reliable. I also noticed the slide locked back upon firing the last round each of the ten times (we shot ten 10 round magazines). So shooting higher power rounds is the solution for now, but my wife should not have to shoot hot loads just to make the gun work properly. I am happy though and will likely just load her ammo to similar specs. As time goes on, 400-600 rounds based on others folks with same issue, the gun should begin to work with less potent 115 gr practice ammo.

-Dan


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

For future reference (I am sure some else will find this after having same issue)...










Problem is, I have the new recoil spring, but I am having the exact same issue as folks with recalled springs/rods.


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## darbo (Oct 3, 2011)

I sure hope you find a satisfactory solution to the problem. I bought a new PX4 Compact in May and put some 3000 rounds through it with zero problems. This was the first pistol I have ever owned. Other than making sure my chosen defense ammo worked in it I always shot 115 gr. cheap FMJ ammo, even a little PMC, with no issues. Just a couple of weeks ago I traded it for the full size model only because the Compact is not on the USPSAs approved gun list and I hope to shoot in local matches soon. Good luck.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Your experience echos the majority of folks that bought this gun. If I ever get a hold of someone at Beretta customer service, I am going to try and get another spring. If not, I will keep barking up the 600 round break in tree. I will get it right one way or the other. The problem is identified and that was the hard part. The solution will be fairly easy. Just a shame to spend so much time, energy, and money to make a gun do what it should have done from the first shot.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Whats odd is if you have the new recoil rod assembly you shouldn't have a recoil spring issue? Very odd indeed. It's the first time I have ever heard about your issue from anyone, and on any forum. If you can post a closeup picture of your recoil rod assembly, I'd like to check it out. The original spring which you do not have was a much heavier pound and thicker spring than the much thinner less poundage replacement spring. If you have the same new recoil rod assembly as everyone else that owns a compact this sure is a mystery? Or if you know anyone who owns a compact, or the retailer who may have others in stock to let you compare the two springs, or rack the slides to compare the difference in tension.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Strange but not totally unheard of, although my PX4 is ultra reliable and it is a used law enforcement trade in

had that happend to me on my first outting witht the gun I would have returned it the minute it started giving me fuss and got my wife a glock lol


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

If she wasn't left handed, a Glock is what she would have got. I own four, three 40 S&W and one 10 mm, and never had an issue like this. Talking 4000-6000 rounds and not one hick up. But... she is left handed so the controls on the PX4 were of great benefit. Also, the mag release was switched over to left handed. She loves it and once it is running smooth, will be a better gun for her.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

denner said:


> Whats odd is if you have the new recoil rod assembly you shouldn't have a recoil spring issue? Very odd indeed. It's the first time I have ever heard about your issue from anyone, and on any forum. If you can post a closeup picture of your recoil rod assembly, I'd like to check it out. The original spring which you do not have was a much heavier pound and thicker spring than the much thinner less poundage replacement spring.* If you have the same new recoil rod assembly as everyone else that owns a compact this sure is a mystery? Or if you know anyone who owns a compact, or the retailer who may have others in stock to let you compare the two springs, or rack the slides to compare the difference in tension.*


Good idea, but I bought the only one they had so can't compare. Will see what Beretta has to say. If they send me a replacement spring and problem goes away, great. If not, I will leave the slide open for a few days as others suggested in the threads I linked earlier and after a 500-600 round break in period, the gun should work fine. At this point, I will be happy with either outcome.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

How can leaving the slide open in any way help?

I truly do not understand

RCG


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

recoilguy said:


> How can leaving the slide open in any way help?
> 
> I truly do not understand
> 
> RCG


the thought behind this is the false notion that a few days or hours of compression will "train" the spring .......

the chicken bones in the bloody bowl will give you just as good results.

its a recoil spring, a few _*years*_ in the open position isnt going to affect it! this stems from those who have had flat, stamped mag spring fail on them after keeping a full mag for years, causing spring compression..... so therefore a tempered, round, coiled recoil spring should be fixed the same way..... right?

wrong!


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

With what I have been dealing with this week, this is the least of my concerns. Figured it can't hurt. I see where you are coming from, but wonder. How can shooting a gun 400-600 times lighten up the recoil spring enough to reliably feed less potent ammo? Seems the same (in principle) as "training" the spring by leaving the slide in the locked and open position.



-Dan


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

You need a new spring, leaving the slide open is only a last option. In theory a recoil spring as like a mag spring or any spring will eventually weaken to some extent, if they didn't you would never have to replace them. A new recoil spring will have more tension than one that has a 3,000 round count. My PX4's are as reliable as any Glock or any other handgun out there, so buying a Glock over a PX4 for it's relability is a non issue. If your running a wrong recoil spring(i.e. a 40 spring in a 9mm), or one that is much too heavy, I don't care what pistol you are using, or what make, it's reliability will suffer. If you recall the new Gen 4 19's with the 40 cal recoil springs was an issue in reliability until Glock resolved it.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

danattherock said:


> With what I have been dealing with this week, this is the least of my concerns. Figured it can't hurt. I see where you are coming from, but wonder. How can shooting a gun 400-600 times lighten up the recoil spring enough to reliably feed less potent ammo? Seems the same (in principle) as "training" the spring by leaving the slide in the locked and open position.
> 
> -Dan


the spring "lightening" from use is called "spring fatigue" .... this is cause by CYCLES of compression and release during use, while a spring under compression isnt subject to "spring fatigue" because it is not being released therefor no cycles.

i hope that clears it up for ya


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

The fail to feed issues seem resolved after shooting 300 rounds of 147 gr ammo through the gun. That is 500 rounds total through the gun before a full mag of 115 gr would feed reliably. Guess that broke her in and lightened the spring up a bit. Shot 100 rounds of 115 grain Federal through the gun today with 100% reliability. Flawless operation for the first time with light target loads.

*Beretta customer service is non-existent.*

I called and left messages 6-8 times over 3 weeks and got one return call. That call was to inform me she couldn't help me and she provided another number I called and never got a return call. Voice mails left 3x and no return call. I gave up on Beretta customer service and will never buy another Beretta for this reason alone. The PX4 compact 9 mm is now feeding reliably though, and that is the main thing. Just wanted to provide an update in case it benefits future readers.

-Dan


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I Googled "Beretta customer service reviews" and read some threads on this. Apparently they are excellent on filling repair part orders.

And they are a mixed review on problems with weapons. I suspect that when they have a new weapon that has problems that the customer service reps get overwhelmed and you see bad reviews and bad service. In between those times (I'm guessing on the times) they do rather well. This is all supposition. They seem to be uniformly excellent on filling parts orders; both good and bad on phone support and repairs.

See: http://www.google.com/search?source...US421US421&q=beretta+customer+service+reviews

Personally I would bring it to the dealer and have them send it to Beretta. They have more clout than you do and can get through easier too.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Whatever you say man.


I called 6-8 times, left detailed messages, and got one call returned after 2 weeks of waiting. 

I could not get a live person to answer the phone at any point during 3 weeks of calling.

All I wanted was a $7 part to make a $500 gun work.

They would not sell or send me one.

That is non-existent customer service to me.

I truly hope others experiences are better, but I will not support a company that treats customers that way.




-Dan


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

danattherock said:


> Whatever you say man.
> I called 6-8 times, left detailed messages, and got one call returned after 2 weeks of waiting.
> I could not get a live person to answer the phone at any point during 3 weeks of calling.
> All I wanted was a $7 part to make a $500 gun work.
> ...


Dan, they were good with me, I got a live person on the first call and they sent the spring within a week. BTW it's a $23.00 part. Unfortunately, it seems they blackballed you as a free spring getter. I would have taken it back to the retailer and demanded my money back, an exchange, or have the retailer send it back to Beretta for a new one. That sucks, mine has worked flawlessly since the new spring and i can't think of another gun in it's price range that I would rather have.


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## danattherock (Oct 6, 2011)

Good to hear. I of course can only judge the service I was provided. None.


Hope the gun is working now. After 150 rounds yesterday, seems it is broken in and running well.


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