# what is the best ammo for self defense?



## jason0007 (Nov 21, 2006)

in caliber, weight, and brand..thanks.


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## nissan94 (Mar 5, 2007)

*ammo*

yes im wondering myself. but im talking 22long rifle berreta 21a.
ive got minimag,a cci copper plated hollow point 1435 fps and quick shok hollow pt at 1640fps.
this quick shok is supposed to go a couple of inches in and separate in 4 different direction. ive tried all of these on real thick phone books. the quick shok was the only round that almost made it out the other side of the book. it did do a lot of damage the last inch or so. it also left nothing 
but pieces of lead all over the shot area,so the load could never be tested for ballistics , or so it seemed to me.

so ive loaded 5 quick shock and 3 cci hypervelocity rds.would be interested in opinions ,as to better options if they are available in this berreta. ive got other guns but this is my pocket pistol protection. thanks


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## hipmatt (Mar 11, 2007)

This is very debatable, but the .40 s&w is the most popular among Law Enforcement in the US.. at least according to wikipedia..

_The .40 S&W is considered by some the best cartridge for law enforcement use available today, combining superior stopping power when using expanding ammunition and manageable recoil in a package that remains compact, even when using a double-stack magazine. The .40 S&W has an overwhelming share of the U.S. law enforcement market as a result._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40
Maybe this will help, good luck.
BTW if its good enough for them, its good enough for you and me.. right?:smt023


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## Ole Cypress (Mar 12, 2007)

*there is no way that a .22 long rifle round is the best home defense round.
did i read the first post wrong?

i still say a 12 gauge shotgun is your best home defense weapon.

ole*


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

Now, where did I leave my 10 foot pole.....?????


This topic has been much debated over the years. My personal opinion is a quality .45ACP hollow point in 185-230 grains.


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## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

jwkimber45 said:


> Now, where did I leave my 10 foot pole.....?????
> 
> This topic has been much debated over the years.


9mm vs. .45 ACP?

:smt082


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

Revolver said:


> 9mm vs. .45 ACP?
> 
> :smt082


Oh no!!! Now the pot is stirred................:numbchuck:


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

jason0007 said:


> in caliber, weight, and brand..thanks.


I would also like to know.

What has more stopping power? Expanding metal jacket, hallow?


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

:watching: :watching: :watching: :watching:


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

Revolver said:


> 9mm vs. .45 ACP?





PenguinRunway said:


> What has more stopping power? Expanding metal jacket, hallow?


:smt069


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

The best defense caliber is the one you can shoot accurately. It's about shot placement. You can carry a hand cannon that has the "stopping power" to drop a charging elephant in its tracks, but if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with it, the gun is useless. If I was a BG, I'd rather face a guy with a .45 that can't shoot it than a guy with a .22 who can.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Big +1 with Todd...


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

Agreed, but my question was more specific than caliber. I was curious what TYPE of bullet has most stopping power.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> Agreed, but my question was more specific than caliber. I was curious what TYPE of bullet has most stopping power.


Any expanding bullet in any caliber will cause more damage than a FMJ. There are several types of expanding bullets, JHP or EFMJ to name a few. Then there is the +P or +P+ rounds. However if you want _stopping power_ grab a high powered rifle or a shot gun.


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> Agreed, but my question was more specific than caliber. I was curious what TYPE of bullet has most stopping power.


Once you pick a specific caliber, then you can talk about types of bullets and what to use them on.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

2400 said:


> Once you pick a specific caliber, then you can talk about types of bullets and what to use them on.


.40 S&W


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

2400 said:


> Once you pick a specific caliber, then you can talk about types of bullets and what to use them on.





PenguinRunway said:


> .40 S&W


In my 40 I use Federal 155gr JHP for defense.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

HydraShock?

I hear that it's basically comes down to a disicion between Gold Dot and Hydra.

Now, how about grain? How does that affect the bullet? Higher the grain, the better I assum?


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> HydraShock?
> 
> Now, how about grain? How does that affect the bullet? Higher the grain, the better I assum?


Grain = bullet weight. It has nothing to do with the better or quality._ Generally_ a heavier bullet is a slower bullet.


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> HydraShock?
> 
> I hear that it's basically comes down to a disicion between Gold Dot and Hydra.


Not necessarly...there are many quality JHPs out there. Most importantly, make sure your gun functions reliably with what you choose.



> Now, how about grain? How does that affect the bullet? Higher the grain, the better I assum


Grains = weight like Todd said. More is not always better


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

2400 said:


> In my 40 I use Federal 155gr JHP for defense.





PenguinRunway said:


> *HydraShock?*
> 
> Now, how about grain?


How did you get Hydra-Shock out of 155gr Federal JHP?

Grain is a unit of weight, there are 7000 grains in a pound.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

I just thought with it being federal... nevermind. I just wanted some opinions on self defense ammo.


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> I just thought with it being federal... nevermind. I just wanted some opinions on self defense ammo.


I gave you my opinion on self defense ammo for the 40 S&W just like you asked. In my 40 cal Beretta 96, Federal 155gr JHP gives me the best performance and reliability.


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## nissan94 (Mar 5, 2007)

*12 gauge*

old cypress ,what i was talking was mugger at a mall etc . for home protection a 12 gauge with bird shot is what most of my friends use,including myself. i wont go into why. unless somebody doesnt know why birdshot is preferred by many ,for home protection.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

I don't know why.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Bird shot tends to stay within the walls of a room better than Buckshot or slugs but can go thru to the next room.

I carry 155 grain Winchester Ranger JHP ammo in my .40 S&W unless walking in the woods. 180 grain hardball is prefered in Black Bear territory.

My true preference would be a 60MM tactical Nuke and plenty of warning the BG is on the way. :smt1099


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

I love reading the "shot placement" arguments. They often assume you can't shoot a .45ACP well. I've watched many small females shoot a .45ACP just as well as a 9mm. The .45ACP gives you a little push, not a hard snap like a .40SW. If it's all about shot placement, then don't forget that good shot placement with a .45ACP is still better any day than good shot placement with a 9mm. With a .45ACP, you don't have to stress over the brand and type of bullet. They all hurt a lot.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

propellerhead said:


> I love reading the "shot placement" arguments. They often assume you can't shoot a .45ACP well. I've watched many small females shoot a .45ACP just as well as a 9mm. The .45ACP gives you a little push, not a hard snap like a .40SW. If it's all about shot placement, then don't forget that good shot placement with a .45ACP is still better any day than good shot placement with a 9mm. With a .45ACP, you don't have to stress over the brand and type of bullet. They all hurt a lot.


I agree that "pound for pound" a .45 is going to put more of hurt on someone than a 9mm. I know when I make a shot placement argument it's simply to illustrate to newer gun owners that bigger is not always better; which seems to be trap that a lot of newbies fall into.


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

By the same token, a lot of new gun owners are scared away from .45ACP thinking the gun will jump out of their hands when they shoot it. 

When it comes to wounding a target, bigger IS ALWAYS better. You can't guarantee fatal shot placement but you can improve the odds by training. But it's still a small bullet. You can guarantee a larger wound by choosing a larger bullet. You can always improve your odds with training.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Valid points again PH. I agree that _all things being equal_, bigger is better in terms of defense ammo.

In regards to training, a lot of people are under-trained. Hell, I feel under-trained half the time (or that may be just an excuse to get more range time). Unfortunately, the bigger calibers usually carry a bigger price tag for ammo. A new shooter can get in almost twice the practice rounds in with a 9mm than with a .45. Granted this is a bit off the topic in regards to which caliber is best for defense rounds, but if you can't afford to shoot or practice with a large caliber, but you can afford to shoot regularly with a smaller caliber, that may be the way to go for a new gun owner. Accuracy and gun familiarity will be improved because of the extra practice, thus improving the odds for the owner if they have to use their firearm in a defensive situation.


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

I put 10,000 through my XD9 within the first 11 months of owning it. I've only put 2200 through my XD45 since June last year. I have no doubt I'm familiar with my XD45 and can operate it under stress, even if that's the only pistol I have. If I bought the XD45 and nothing else, I probably would've put 5000 through it in the first year. Yes, .45ACP is more expensive than 9mm but you'll find ways to practice with it. Maybe not as much as you could with a 9mm but getting to the point of being familiar with the pistol is easily attained. You could hold off on those fancy night sights for a few months. Or settle for a no-name holster instead of that $120 brand name one. There are ways. 

In short, don't let the cost of .45ACP be a major deterrent in the decision. You don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds through a pistol to commit its operation to memory. All else equal, if I were to choose who would defend my home, I would go with the guy with a .45ACP who shot 5,000 through his pistol than the guy with a 9mm who shot 10,000 through his. 

(Dammit! I swore I'd never get into these caliber discussions!)


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

hipmatt said:


> This is very debatable, but the .40 s&w is the most popular among Law Enforcement in the US.. at least according to wikipedia..
> 
> _The .40 S&W is considered by some the best cartridge for law enforcement use available today, combining superior stopping power when using expanding ammunition and manageable recoil in a package that remains compact, even when using a double-stack magazine. The .40 S&W has an overwhelming share of the U.S. law enforcement market as a result._
> 
> ...


Neat link. I'm glad you posted that. I recently acquired an XD40 subcompact which is my new carry pistol... until they make a true XD45 subcompact.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

propellerhead said:


> (Dammit! I swore I'd never get into these caliber discussions!)


It's easy to get sucked in!


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

Screw it, I'm sticking with the 40.

If the **** hits the fan... and zombies attack, I want to be able to pick up all the rounds from the police after they were mauled by zombies.


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## Dreadnought (Nov 9, 2006)

TOF said:


> Bird shot tends to stay within the walls of a room better than Buckshot or slugs but can go thru to the next room.
> 
> I carry 155 grain Winchester Ranger JHP ammo in my .40 S&W unless walking in the woods. 180 grain hardball is prefered in Black Bear territory.
> 
> My true preference would be a 60MM tactical Nuke and plenty of warning the BG is on the way. :smt1099


That's a big misconception, there was a guy posted last year on one of the gun forums after he ND'ed his 20 ga. loaded with birdshot and it went right through the wall and into the next room's ceiling after it patterned. He was lucky no one was on the other side of the wall, he had posted a video of the damage and stated he though birdshot wasn't supposed to do that.

My carry choice is the same as yours, Win. Ranger JHP in 155 gr.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

I didn't say it was guaranteed to stay in the room. You have a considerably better chance of not harming someone in the next room with (small) birdshot than you do with slugs or buckshot. :smt1099


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## GOTzMAGzz (Apr 23, 2007)

*Numbers*

Research says 357 mag is the best overall _stopper_. I doubt there is enough data available to compare the 357 sig. As for 9 vs 45? I know for sure that I will never find a 9mm of any make or model that is as comfortable to handle as my buddy's Kimber 1911. I could shoot that thing over an afternoon nap. It rolls right back into place and unless i tell it otherwise the next shot is going right where the first one did. I'd love to find a .40 that is as much of a joy to shoot. I've put a few hundred through a glock23 and hated it.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I get a kick out of these threads. Everyone spends so much mental energy on the smallest parts of the defensive equation!

For years, I carried a 1911 in .45. For a variety of reasons, I now carry (back in the World) a Glock 9mm. I have taken more training that the average shooter (considerably more, probably), but still find the 9mm the best compromise in speed, accuracy and power when loaded with good JHPs. But would I complain if handed a .40 or .45? Nope, I'd just drive on and make it work.

To say one shooter with 10,000 rounds' experience with a 9mm is decidedly inferior to a shooter with 5,000 rounds' experience with a .45 is ludicrous and so hardware-driven that it's laughable. It's just a gun, for God's sake, and just a little bitty piece of lead. Skill, tactics, courage, gunhandling ability, marksmanship and even plain old luck all play far, far bigger roles in a shooting than a 2.35mm difference in bullet diameter.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

GOTzMAGzz said:


> Research says 357 mag is the best overall _stopper_.


I trust you aren't referring to the long-discredited Marshall-Sanow OSS "research."


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> To say one shooter with 10,000 rounds' experience with a 9mm is decidedly inferior to a shooter with 5,000 rounds' experience with a .45 is ludicrous and so hardware-driven that it's laughable. It's just a gun, for God's sake, and just a little bitty piece of lead. Skill, tactics, courage, gunhandling ability, marksmanship and even plain old luck all play far, far bigger roles in a shooting than a 2.35mm difference in bullet diameter.


Dude, read the post before laughing. The point I was making is that the cost of ammo shouldn't be a major factor in the choice of weapon. Just because you can shoot 10,000 rounds of 9mm for about the same cost of 5,000 rounds of .45 shouldn't be the reason to pick a 9mm pistol over a .45. This was in response to the common statement about choosing the 9mm because it's cheaper and you can practice more. You don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds to be proficient with a given pistol. Heck, shoot 5,000 rounds of any pistol of any caliber and you should be fairly comfortable with how to shoot that pistol. The amount of rounds you can buy and shoot shouldn't be a deciding factor.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

propellerhead said:


> Dude, read the post before laughing. The point I was making is that the cost of ammo shouldn't be a major factor in the choice of weapon. Just because you can shoot 10,000 rounds of 9mm for about the same cost of 5,000 rounds of .45 shouldn't be the reason to pick a 9mm pistol over a .45. This was in response to the common statement about choosing the 9mm because it's cheaper and you can practice more. You don't need to shoot 10,000 rounds to be proficient with a given pistol. Heck, shoot 5,000 rounds of any pistol of any caliber and you should be fairly comfortable with how to shoot that pistol. The amount of rounds you can buy and shoot shouldn't be a deciding factor.


Almost nobody's financial resources are infinite. You're saying that someone who shoots 10,000 rounds a year won't be a better shooter than someone who shoots half that much, other things being equal?


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

Nope. Never said that.


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## GOTzMAGzz (Apr 23, 2007)

*Sure.*

Sure. Marshall. I needn't go further. Doesn't the question warrant some level of oversight? LaFF. Let me rephrase. Carrying a S&W 327... I mean a glock17 will make you an invincible superhero. All other firearms are inferior. (get it?) I think the real answer is that the best self defense is to move to a hippie nudist colony and pray the evil empire never drops out of the sky to raid your fondu pot.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

GOTzMAGzz said:


> Sure. Marshall. I needn't go further. Doesn't the question warrant some level of oversight? LaFF. Let me rephrase. Carrying a S&W 327... I mean a glock17 will make you an invincible superhero. All other firearms are inferior. (get it?) I think the real answer is that the best self defense is to move to a hippie nudist colony and pray the evil empire never drops out of the sky to raid your fondu pot.


I have absolutely no idea what that post means, though evidently I have totally misunderstood propellerhead's posts as well. :mrgreen:


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## pps (Aug 11, 2011)

No question hornady critical defense


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## cwl1862 (Sep 1, 2008)

Gold dots or Corbon for me please whatever the caliber may be. Then it's just a matter of location, location, location.


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## cwl1862 (Sep 1, 2008)

Todd said:


> The best defense caliber is the one you can shoot accurately. It's about shot placement. You can carry a hand cannon that has the "stopping power" to drop a charging elephant in its tracks, but if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with it, the gun is useless. If I was a BG, I'd rather face a guy with a .45 that can't shoot it than a guy with a .22 who can.


Aaaawwwwww I was gonna eay that!!!!!!!!:smt033


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

Obviously shot placement has to be sufficient to hit something vital. 

But, wouldn't physics dictate that a larger mass bullet (weight of the HP itself) have more kinetic energy and thus release more energy into a body when hit, and thus create more damage to the body through the release of more energy?

Then thing I have learned about HP's is that it is not just how well an HP round expands or the penetration depth, but the SHOCK value of the round in the area where the bullet hits a body. That can be 3-6 inches of shock damage around the wound. That has two parts: velocity and kinetic energy of the bullet. 

For 9mm, the velocity of a 147gr bullet and a 124gr bullet is not that much different, depending on the brand for a given firearm. (Setting +P aside for a moment). So, wouldn't the heavier bullet cause greater damage and thus be better at stopping someone?

For +P, those velocities are comparable as well, so when comparing +P, I would think the same would hold true as well.

Contrary opinions?


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## XD40Colorado (Jun 19, 2011)

There is no clear "best". Depends on personal preferences. Some guys like 9mm, some like .357 magnum, some like .45. Just depends on what you are most accurate/comfortable with. For me that's 9mm, I find it to be a good mix of power and accuracy. I personally go with Winchester Ranger T-series 124gr +P, and if I can't get that then Federal HST 124gr +P.


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