# Advise on first revolver



## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Hello all,
newcomer to this forum.

I'm in the process of getting a licence for home detention and range shooting.
In a month I'll have to decide which revolver to buy (I'm definitely a revolver man).

I browsed some of the previous posts in this boards, read a few articles on the internet. Have some very general idea of the revolvers world. Only shot a couple of'em in the past, a Python 6-incher and a big S&W .44 mag long barrel, made in late '80s or early'90s, cannot remember the exact model.

Both were good. The python was very good. It is presently out of commerce though and my understanding is that good used models are not easy to come by, nor do they come cheap. 

Is there, in your opinion, a model which approaches the Python performance as far as accuracy and trigger pull (and return) go?

From the content of your past discussions, I'd narrow my choice to the S&W 686 or the Ruger GP100. Any advise as to barrel lenght? Carrying is not a main worry. I tend to like better the longer barrels (6"), do you believe these display greater accuracy or else? It isn't yet clear to me.

What about the Smith 686 plus (7 rounds)? Problems in finding moonclips and fast-loading devices?

What about the trigger problems which appear to characterize the Ruger models? I love the Ruger look, but I love even more to keep my rounds on target!

Last, I love the big calibers, but again my main purpose is to hit the bullseye. Should I rule the .44's out in this respect?

I do not hunt, I might occasionally carry in the woods for self-defense.
I might ultimately buy a .357 first and eventually a bigger caliber as a second weapon.


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*hot dawg "Revolver"*

mccoy: Sir; a man after my own heart. :smt023
Sir; I bang away with 2" through 7 1/2" accuracy comes with practice.
My Rugers are more accurate than I'll ever be. Single Actions
My Ruger GP100 4" has been more accurate than I.
My SW638 covers as well
There is more.
I pick and choose for my intended purpose. The longer ones are hunting type that spend more time shooting paper and junk.
4" for me is a good carry in the winter. 638 goes all the time when its legal.
Now for the triggers.:smt083
Sir; I mess around with the Ruger triggers; I'll be comfortable sitting beside SW triggers.
Out of the box SW are supposedly ?better? my 2 are more for defense, and I think the triggers are over sprung. They'll not be adjusted for my safety.

Sir; I shoot out to 100yds on my shooting excursions with all of them.

Practicing has allowed me confidence. Would I advise a new shooter to shoot comfortable @100yds. Practice and confidence will make the difference.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree that the Smith generally has a smoother out-of-the box trigger, and the Smith would be my choice.

A 6" barrel is not mechanically any more accurate than a 4", but it may be easier for you to shoot well because it has a longer sight radius. For a defense gun, or one that will spend significant time on my hip, I would choose a 4".

A .357 is a better choice than a .44 for a first revolver. It is less expensive to shoot, more compact to carry, and the recoil is much less intimidating to an inexperienced shooter.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I recommend a 4" GP-100 Ruger to start with mainly because you said you wish to carry it some. Plus the balance on a 4" barreled revolver is about as good as it gets out of the box. The .38/.357 cartridges is a real good platfrom to start at. You can move up to the bigger stuff later. All you will need is practice. Good luck.


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## jmorrell (Sep 1, 2007)

I think a 4" 357 would be the perfect first revolver. With a 357, you have the option of shooting 38 special, 38 special +P, and 357 ammo, and the variety of ammo available is fantastic. I purchased a S&W Model 620 (seven shot .357 magnum) several months ago, and it's everything I ever wanted in an all around revolver.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

first revolver i recommend a S&W 357 4" barrell and shoot the 38 specials at the range until you are ready for the magnums

my second choice would be the S&W 625JM 45acp this is the one that Jerry Miculek uses to win all the revolver competitions - actually this could be my first choice


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## Pointblank (Nov 26, 2007)

The new L frame Smiths (including the 686 now:smt097) have that barrel sleeve. There's no way I'd buy that, plus you get the lock. I'd go with a Ruger GP-100 in 3" fixed or 4" adjustable. Both are built like tanks, no locks and have a smoother trigger than you'd expect. These are very dependable revolvers and can handle heavy magnum loads.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Gentlemen,
thanks very much for your valuable opinions. I'm definitely going to start up with a 357/38 sp.

The barrel lenght issue is interesting, if a longer barrel doesn't yield a mechanically better precision, than a 4" would be great, maybe Hi-viz sights can make up for shorter aim radius??? 

Craig, I'll start shooting @ 12 yards, I didn't think you could achieve significant accuracy at 100 yards. 
I'd be interested to have an estimate of the achievable accuracy at such distance (100 yds), in probabilistic terms (i.e.: you can on the average put say, 70-80% of your rounds in an X radius target...).

I saw a few Miculek's pictures, I could not download videoclips though, due to some missing plug-ins. I understand he is the fastest gunslinger on earth now, he's not into slow and deliberate revolver shooting though...or am I wrong???

On his site JM advertises a DVD on shooting practices, something like "advanced revolver shooting", anyone has seen it, would it be worth the expense (33+ US$)?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

mccoy said:


> I understand he is the fastest gunslinger on earth now, he's not into slow and deliberate revolver shooting though...or am I wrong???


As far as I know, Mr. Miculek competes mainly in speed-intensive sports.



> On his site JM advertises a DVD on shooting practices, something like "advanced revolver shooting", anyone has seen it, would it be worth the expense (33+ US$)?


I think _anything_ Jerry Miculek has to say about revolver shooting should be very carefully considered. The man is the acknowledged modern master of DA revolver shooting. I'd certainly spend $33 on the DVD. It will probably save you more than that in ammo wasted trying to learn on your own what he can teach you in a few minutes.


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## LOCKnLOAD (Jan 6, 2008)

I am also thinking about getting a revolver. I shot one a very long time ago and loved how acurate it was. I am a pretty good shot with guns. What is the gun everyone is talking about? That is what I wanna get my hands on most of the time, LOL. But I really don't want a gun so big I need a 40" arms to shoot.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

> It will probably save you more than that in ammo wasted trying to learn on your own what he can teach you in a few minutes.


Good point, Mike.

Anyone ever wondered why JM chose a .45 ACP as his favorite caliber?


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*without*

mccoy: Sir; without question 638 50/50 @100yds. 1'x1' square. Ruger 4" 75%
with 10" pie plate; Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, Super Redhawk; 5-6" on a pie plate 80% : 
Sir; without sounding trite or any better than anyone else, a lot of our shooting is @golf balls starting @50yd marker. We use water bottles with and without water. We chide each other with 'bottle caps' only. We chase the golf balls, and the water bottles. Some of the "distances" are not part of a good answer. We do start @ the 50yd marker. AND WE DO NOT HIT THE TARGET 80% of the time:smt023

Sir; you'll improve when you have a partner who constantly supports and encourages. Balance, good shooting posture, concentrating, and not rushing to gain the next ?level? :smt083

Our new shooters: I like them to start at 5 paces move to 7 paces; if problem arise; move to 3 paces until shooter finds the sights. 
The days it isn't going good for the new shooter. Forget the targets and shoot to enjoy the bang. If you happen to be outside in a safe place; find a stump, fallen branch, a dirt bank, anything that will become your target. Paper has a place; outside shooting has another place:smt023

This will not happen over night. Shooting any handgun is about confidence; practice and believing that you will not miss. Sir; I own 1 scope for a long gun. My shooting is with open iron sights. I have strong opinions about my stock iron sights.

New shooter have seen my shaking [nerve damage] they see if this 'sewing machine on wide open' can hit a target; they'll be okay

Follow up with your experiences; and practices


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

It will take some more time before I can buy a gun , because of red tape intricacies.

In the meanwhile I went to the local range, which has only one big-caliber revolver model for rent, a S&W 686 6".

I followed your suggestion to start shooting 38 special and it was good, since after 100 rounds my wrist joint started to be sore. I'll better rest for a few days.

In this case 357 mag or even worse 44 mag might have caused pain after one dozen rounds.

I was pretty satisfied with the results, shooting mostly SA (but also DA and left-handedly), put 60% of the rounds inside a 8" radius at 16.5 yards of distance. This after 15 years I did not touch a handgun, with a rented revolver. Might have been worse.

I'm no more a young man, the 44 mag can wait a while until my wrists get the habit to the recoil....


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*comment*

mccoy: sir; good post and better thinking. Exposure is the key.
On a side note with revolvers; heavier ones help in recoil. Since I know nothing about the 686-6" I'll not comment on weight. 
Sir; the GP 100 falls into the heavier handguns. Should you find one to blastaway with, maybe a difference. It has the ability of either .38's or .357
Follow up when you heal up:smt033


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2008)

Baldy said:


> I recommend a 4" GP-100 Ruger to start with mainly because you said you wish to carry it some. Plus the balance on a 4" barreled revolver is about as good as it gets out of the box. The .38/.357 cartridges is a real good platfrom to start at. You can move up to the bigger stuff later. All you will need is practice. Good luck.


Can't disagree with that. I own one in 4" and it shoots better than I can and will last longer than I will. The benefit of a Ruger is you won't shoot it loose.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

neophyte said:


> mccoy: sir; good post and better thinking. Exposure is the key.
> On a side note with revolvers; heavier ones help in recoil. Since I know nothing about the 686-6" I'll not comment on weight.
> Sir; the GP 100 falls into the heavier handguns. Should you find one to blastaway with, maybe a difference. It has the ability of either .38's or .357
> Follow up when you heal up:smt033


Craig, the S&W 686 6" weighs 44 oz. unloaded, should be about the same as a Ruger GP 100 6". I'll check.
The recoil was absolutely manageable, although the wrist joint made his work of shock-absorber. Since I no more train with weights nor do I use hand tools (in a few words, turned into a wimp!!! ), I should proceed with care to avoid lenghty inflammations. But I can always shoot left-handedly on one day, right-handedly on the other.:idea:

Your statement about the gun's weight checking the recoil is sure correct, the theory behind it being clearly illustrated in the following wikipedia excerpt:

_



This perception of recoil is related to the momentum associated with a particular gun. The total force of recoil is associated with the momentum of a gun, the momentum being the product of the mass of the gun times the reverse velocity of the gun. A heavier gun, that is a gun with more mass, will manifest the momentum by exhibiting a lessened acceleration, and, generally, result in a lessened perception of recoil.

Click to expand...

_


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*physics*

Sir; I intended to add; How we hold the units also play a large part.
Compare your arm to that of a shock absorber on a car. Over sprung
will result a hard impact to soft will wallow. Happy medium is the proper [for you] hold. Experiment with stance; go to a two handed hold; once you find the balance between grip-stance-balance the pleasure will increase.

Many watch the TV with these 'yahoo's' shooting while running, jumping, flying, sleeping, eating,:smt023 shooting with "one hand". Sir, if I may be so bold, Two handed is more controllable accurate. Not in the least easier on the body.

Last part: Physics 101; 44oz = 2lbs 12oz.
How much does 2lbs 12oz weigh at 30'' horizontal to a perpendicular @4' above the horizontal plane [which doesn't matter] just reference; being held by an ?average? individual 
The dynamics will be
?average? arm weighs what? at 30" perpendicular to a horizontal -Arm becomes a lever=l*w*d
2lbs 12oz now becomes ?what?

The answer is simple; consider the weight of the object as only part of what you are holding up with muscle, tendon, and bone at a most floating joint. With 2 hands you have a greater body of muscle involved.

:smt033 now:smt023 shoot with 2:smt033 hands:smt023


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Craig,
sorry I was unclear, I've been shooting with a 2-handed hold, but I've found my 'weak' hand, the left one, is actually stronger than the right one, supposedly my 'strong' side.
So I'll use my left hand as a trigger hand, my right one as a 'prop' hand. Also, since I'm practically starting now to learn shooting, I'm definitely going and learn to shoot with both hands, before the habit of oen hand sets in.

Also, I think I've found my model: a performance center S&W 627 8-rounds. Real beauty. Gonna open a new thread about ...her!


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*627*

mccoy; That 627 is one fine looking firearm. I do believe it would fit my hand:mrgreen: I have no aspirations to immolate "Jerry" There are two model @SW of the 627; Full shroud is for me; or maybe both:smt083:mrgreen:

I said shroud and meant lug


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want a 44 caliber you will have to move to a larger frame the 686 is 357 Mag and so is the GP 100. It would be the 629 or a ruger Redhawk if you want to shoot 44. The 44 is a very accurate round but it will cost more to shoot. You can shoot lighter recoiling loads in each as you can shoot 38 Specials out of the 357 mags and 44 special or even 44 Russian out of the 44 Mag, although the Russian has quite a bit of bullet jump before it gets to the rifling in the barrel. The 44 Mag though is probably one of my favorite cartridges. Its about as much recoil as I can handle comfortably in a pistol and I have taken several deer with my Model 29 from Smith and Wesson


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Soldierboy,
I'll probably buy a .44 mag ih one year or two.
I just love the looks of the superredhawk, something pristine and powerful, plus the unfluted cylinder is a killer.
Also the S&W 629 PC with a comp is great.

Right now, I'll settle for the .357 mag though, starting shooting .38 sp's, as per very sensible suggestions given above.

So far, I did not change my mind about the 627 PC 5". Unfortunately the V-comp is not for sale here in Italy, the regular model will do though. I also pretty much like the idea of 8-rounds moonclips, approaching semiautos capacity.

I'll just wait a little while to let ideas settle..., in the meanwhile I'm shooting the range rental: a S&W 686 6" .357


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

Can't go wrong with that choice, hope you enjoy your new investment


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*Super*

mccoy: Sir; I have the Super Redhawk and Super Blackhawk in .44
The Super Redhawk will never be a looker, but I wouldn't trade it or sell.
A lot of fun, for a lot of gun.
FYI; .44 specials work fine in the .44's
:smt033 stock up now:smt033
just in case you think I forgot: You now have a .357:smt023


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Superredhawks: nice beasts, actually I realized the top one hosts more powerful rounds than the .44 mag...., sorry have yet to get familiar with all the available calibers.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Another .44mag reminiscent of one of those big, busomy beauties:

the S&W 629 8" performance center.

Reviews are pretty good... All right, I agree, reviews can be bought, but, the looks of her sure make me drool...

:drooling::drooling::drooling:

On a more serious note: this is apparently the 1st .44 mag which in Italy has been classified as a 'sportsweapon'.

Regulations here allow you to detain no more than 6 sportsweapons and no more than 3 'common weapons'. Unless you apply as a collector, with a gunsafe and so on.

Also, recent proposal of regulations restricting the use of weapons may strongly suggest handgunners to go for the "sportsweapon" items.


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*tell us*

mccoy: Sir; tell us about the Country. It sound intriguing, impossible but intriguing. 
There was a thread asking about something of your region or something like that.
What about starting something called ?FROM OTHER COUNTRYs?
with pictures.

I'm interested. Thanks


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

*Italy*



neophyte said:


> mccoy: Sir; tell us about the Country. It sound intriguing, impossible but intriguing.
> There was a thread asking about something of your region or something like that.
> What about starting something called ?FROM OTHER COUNTRYs?
> with pictures.
> ...


Craig,
Italy is a country smaller than most American States, yet there is a variety of sceneries. Lots of art and history for sure. A few hours driving, or train or couch and you can usually go and visit Florence, Rome, Venice.

These are the main destination of American tourists. Many more quaint places. Where I am, on the coast, I can stroll along the beach, or I can drive an hour and hit the mountains at 7000 feet altitude, or drive three hours and I'll be in Rome.

Cuisine is delicious. Sure most of our women know their way around a kitchen and some guys as well, I used to cook when a young lad.

In the other thread an American paratrooper who was based in Italy exchanged a few words in Italian. Italy is an allied country. I love that. The States have always been a benchmark for freedom and democracy, even though, of course, nuthin' is perfect in the domestic front...

What kind of pics would you prefer? I'm going to attach some in this or in another thread...


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*good*

mccoy: Sir; sounds good. Do another thread. There was an Aussie here a while back maybe New Zealand, was a fellow from England.


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## Alaskan_Viking (Jun 13, 2006)

Buy a pair of .500 S&W's!:draw:


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Alaskan_Viking said:


> Buy a pair of .500 S&W's!:draw:


Atta-boy! A couple of'em :smt083guardian angels:smt083 I'd sure feel protected everywhere!

You doan even have to aim: the blast is enough to scare the opponents sh**less!!
:smt033

Give it time to time, amigos, I'll get it to the huge calibers, I'll get a kick out of starting an earthquake in the local range...:twisted::twisted::smt1097:yawinkle:


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

mccoy said:


> Atta-boy! A couple of'em :smt083guardian angels:smt083 I'd sure feel protected everywhere!
> 
> You doan even have to aim: the blast is enough to scare the opponents sh**less!!
> :smt033
> ...


We are a patient bunch mccoy, (I think) so just keep us posted as you progress. And have fun while doing it. I've been shooting for around 60 years and am not ready for the modern big boomers. I learned long ago that the Macho game just gets you hurt. If I need more than .44 mag I will get a long gun.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

TOF,
you are the voice of wisdom.

I've been foolish enough in my early youth and now that I approached middle age I can bide my time.
Probably more than a shooter got injured by those monster revolvers, and had to stop using guns for a while.

Sure patience will keep me going a long distance. hope so.

And...congrats for your 60 years shooting (started from the cradle, I reckon...):smt023


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## riot earp (Jun 11, 2006)

My three choices would be

S&W 625JM
S&W 686 plus 4" barrel
Ruger GP100 4" barrel

In that order. With the 625JM way in front of the other two.


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