# Kahr P9 vs Walther PPS



## JohnnyFlake

I apologize if this has been kicked around recently. I tried to do a search several times but nothing comes up. It keeps telling me the wording is too short. Oh Well!

Anyway, I normally carry a Colt Pony Pocketlite .380 but I'm having some problems with it, as it started acting up on me at the range a few weeks ago. Now, I've decided to go to a 9mm. My S&W Lady Smith is too big, as I live in an always, warm to very hot area (Henderson, Nevada) and I almost always carry in my front pocket, using a DeSantis Pocket Holster. As a result, I am temporarily carrying a Kel-Tec 9mm. In truth it's not a bad weapon, but *I cannot stand the trigger pull! *

I have been looking at the Kahr P9 and the Walter PPS in 9mm. I really like both of them. They both carry well in my front pocket with very minimal, if any print. One day, I'm going to buy the Kahr and the next it's the Walter! If by chance, anyone out there has experience with both, I will truly appreciate your thoughts and recommendations. Of course, I will appreciate any and all input from those of you who have experience with either one or the other!

Johnny


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## Charlie

Don't really have any experiences with either of the two you're considering............but I do have a little with the HK P7 and you may want to consider it. The picture shows a comparison in size to the PPS. When I first saw this I was a little supprised as I thought the PPS was much smaller than the P7. The P7 is thin (but all steel and heavier) and it shoots real good. Just throwing it our there.


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## Joeywhat

I've held the PPS, and WOW what a good gun! I think the fit is awesome. That being said, there are some reliability issues with that right now. It seems that all of Walther's newer pistols have gone through that phase as well. Might want to wait until later in the year, once Walther has fixed everything.


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## fivehourfrenzy

Walthers always have teething problems, but once they're straightened out, they're fine guns. I saw a PPS in person for the first time today. Looks totally different than pictures. It's so incredibly thin...I'd like to shoot one and see how they feel.


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## vernpriest

I don't have any experience with Walther but I do with the Kahrs. I own a Kahr CW9 which is built around the P9 platform. The slide is not as fancy and the barrel is standard rifling instead of polygonal. Other than that they are nearly identical (MIM slide stop instead of machined). The CW has been an awesome pistol, flawless since day one. My dad carries the smaller PM9 in his pocket and loves it. The CW series is considerably cheaper than the P series as well (about $400-$425 new with 1 mag). I would not hestitate to get another Kahr.


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## JohnnyFlake

Thanks for the input so far. Dam this is going to be a tough one!

I appreciate the H&K suggestion, however, I simply cannot get use to the squeeze cocker system they use, or whatever it's called. I really do not like it!


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## PhilR.

I am a Walther fan in a big way, but I would wait a while before buying a PPS. I've read of more than a few issues with it, but I'm confident that Walther will eventually work the bugs out (if there really are some in the first place).

Of your two choices, I would have no problem with the Kahr. I've used several and own a PM9, and like them a lot. Personally though, I would go for the CW9 suggested above. They shoot really well, and only cost about $400. A lot lighter in weight than a metal Kahr too.

If you can wait a bit, I think that Taurus is coming out with new slim 9mm's as well....

PhilR.


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## JohnnyFlake

PhilR. said:


> I am a Walther fan in a big way, but I would wait a while before buying a PPS. I've read of more than a few issues with it, but I'm confident that Walther will eventually work the bugs out (if there really are some in the first place).
> 
> Of your two choices, I would have no problem with the Kahr. I've used several and own a PM9, and like them a lot. Personally though, I would go for the CW9 suggested above. They shoot really well, and only cost about $400. A lot lighter in weight than a metal Kahr too.
> 
> *If you can wait a bit, I think that Taurus is coming out with new slim 9mm's as well....*
> 
> PhilR.


Thanks for mentioning that. Now that you reminded me, I do recall hearing some talk about that back in February or early March. I have had several Taurus models and never had a problem with any of them!


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## submoa

I agree with *Charlie* P7s are splendid subcompact weapons. However, you will be coughing up over $1,000 for one.

Between the PPS and P9, I'd pick the Kahr.

I don't feel comfortable the PPS' 'quicksafe' safety design. It relies on the backstrap being in place in order to fire. The backstrap is held in place by an exposed plastic claw latch at the back of the magwell. The gun design is too new to say whether the latch could fail after a lot of rough reloads.

Kahr weighs less and has stainless slide vs tennifer.


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## greenjeans

I just bought a CW9 less than two weeks ago and took it to the range for the 200 round break in Kahr recommends for all their pistols. I shot 170 rounds in one session, a mix of UMC, Remington Green Box, SXTs, and Hydra-shoks. No failures of any kind gun related (had 4 fail to fire with the Green Box, but all four had really good primer strikes). This one is going to get a lot of carry time. Also very easy to take down for cleaning. great fit and finish.


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## falshman70

I have the P9 and like it a lot. It is extremely slim and very concealable. Too big for me to carry in a pocket, though. I got an Andrews IWB holster and the combo works well. The Kahr has a nice trigger - long pull, but crisp break. My wife's P99 feels mushy. But I can't comment on the PPS.


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## JohnnyFlake

Well I went and done it! I finally made up my mind for this purchase. I decided on the Kahr P9 - two tone - with Novak Tritium Night Sights. I had decided on a Kahr a couple of days ago, but then I was debating on the CW9 vs the P9 because of the considerable difference in price. Basically the CW9 and the P9 are very much the same gun, with only a few differences. I do not recall specifically which parts, however, there are two or three parts on the CW9 that are made of plastic vs being made of steel on the P9. Also, the barrel on the CW9 has standard lands & grooves, while the barrel on the P9 is polygonal. However, the major reasons, for me, are the P9 comes with two magazines vs one with the CW9 and can be ordered with the night sights, where the CW9 cannot! 

I ended up ordering and paying for the gun today. Retail on this piece, with the night sights, is $857.00. I ended up paying $730.00. Their price for a CW9 is $408.00 which is dam good in my opinion, and I may still pick up one of them as well. I should have it in about 10 days.


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## Shipwreck

I had some time to kill at a gun show today - and I looked at a PPS and the Kars. Personally - I don't care for teh feel of the grip on the PPS. The Kahr's feel is very nice. BUt the trigger on the Kahrs ain't the greatest (but probably better than the Keltec trigger).

However, I have read so many negatives about Kahr performance, however, that I don't know that I would roll the dice and chance buying one.


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## JohnnyFlake

Shipwreck said:


> I had some time to kill at a gun show today - and I looked at a PPS and the Kars. Personally - I don't care for teh feel of the grip on the PPS. The Kahr's feel is very nice. BUt the trigger on the Kahrs ain't the greatest (but probably better than the Keltec trigger).
> 
> *However, I have read so many negatives about Kahr performance, however, that I don't know that I would roll the dice and chance buying one.*


*
*

Since you are the only one to mention that you've read, *so many negatives about the Kahr's performance, *Would you be kind enough to explain and also, point me to the articles that you've read so many of!


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## Shipwreck

JohnnyFlake said:


> [/B]
> 
> Since you are the only one to mention that you've read, *so many negatives about the Kahr's performance, *Would you be kind enough to explain and also, point me to the articles that you've read so many of!


I don't have links to them all. SOrry. I just know that over the past 12 months or so, I have read an above avg # of Kahr owners with the small polymer frames guns having numerous issues with the guns - be it feeding problems or issues with the frames. All I can tell you, as I'm not interested in spending an hour trying to find all these threads again.

Now, I really am not familiar with the letters for the Kahr models - be it the polymer framed models or the metal framed models. But, I did like the size of the smalest 9mm Kahr more than I cared for the PPS.

However - I'd have some pause on buying one aftrer reading what I've read. Seems like a crap shoot. However, saying that, I wouldn't mind one.

WIth a 9mm that size, however, one must realize that it probably isn't a comfortable gun to shoot - so it wouldn't be a real range gun (like a larger framed 9mm might be). Probably not a gun that would feel good to go put 200 rounds + thru in 1 session.


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## PhilR.

JohnnyFlake said:


> [/B]
> 
> Since you are the only one to mention that you've read, *so many negatives about the Kahr's performance, *Would you be kind enough to explain and also, point me to the articles that you've read so many of!


Where one reads of these things are not actually articles, but are instead owner's experiences posted on this and similar forums. You can search for yourself at the following:
Glocktalk
The Firing line
AR15.com
Thehighroad.org
firearmstalk.com
and, of course, here....

PhilR.


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## Mike Barham

It's pretty commonly accepted that the polymer Kahrs are more prone to trouble than their steel-framed brothers.


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## Elmer Gantry

Just bought a CW9 and have been very pleased with it. About 500 rounds through it already. The only issue I've had is a failure of the slide locking back at the end of the mag. All 500 rounds fed correctly and all fired. Just make sure you use the slide release on the initial round.

I did a lot of of research prior to my purchase and read a lot of criticism. Most of it seemed to be on older models. Folks I have talked IN PERSON have all been very pleased with Kahr. Now, I count myself as one of them. I'm certainly not an expert like Mike and others here, but I couldn't be happier with the purchase. Price, size, and function are all great.


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## JohnnyFlake

Elmer Gantry said:


> Just bought a CW9 and have been very pleased with it. About 500 rounds through it already. The only issue I've had is a failure of the slide locking back at the end of the mag. All 500 rounds fed correctly and all fired. Just make sure you use the slide release on the initial round.
> 
> I did a lot of of research prior to my purchase and read a lot of criticism. Most of it seemed to be on older models. Folks I have talked IN PERSON have all been very pleased with Kahr. Now, I count myself as one of them. I'm certainly not an expert like Mike and others here, but I couldn't be happier with the purchase. Price, size, and function are all great.


I appreciate your comments! I will soon be finding out for myself, as per my earlier post, I have placed an order for a P9 with Night Sights.


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## PhilR.

Elmer Gantry said:


> Just bought a CW9 and have been very pleased with it. About 500 rounds through it already. The only issue I've had is a failure of the slide locking back at the end of the mag. All 500 rounds fed correctly and all fired. Just make sure you use the slide release on the initial round.
> 
> I did a lot of of research prior to my purchase and read a lot of criticism. Most of it seemed to be on older models. Folks I have talked IN PERSON have all been very pleased with Kahr. Now, I count myself as one of them. I'm certainly not an expert like Mike and others here, but I couldn't be happier with the purchase. Price, size, and function are all great.


Over the past two months, two friends have purchased the same handgun after some extensive shopping of the local gun stores. Both examples have functioned perfectly from the very first round, and both owners are quite happy that I mentioned this pistol. Both owners plan to cc their handguns.

Although I did have some initial problems with my PM9, it runs 100% now and I do cc mine. The PM series seesm to be somewhat problematic, but it seems that the CW series are very reliable. I would have a CW9 right now if I didn't already have the PM, but I am glad that I have the PM. I'm amazed at how much firepower you can pack into such a small package....

PhilR.


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## Elmer Gantry

the PM9 is SWEET. I just couldn't justify the cost difference for my first CCW purchase.


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## Ozark10

I have the PM9 for about a year now, carry it daily in a front pocket holster. 650 rounds without a problem. Almost as easy as a Glock to take down and clean. I am very satisfied with the Kahr. Also have the Kel-Tec P3AT and had several mis-fire problems with it and lost confidence with the gun.


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## WVfishguy

> Walthers always have teething problems


News to me. Maybe if you're referring to PPKs or older makes.

My P99 and PPS shot fine right out of the box.

I first fired my PPS with 20-year-old ammo I found in my attic, a combination of old reloads, Silvertips and some Teflon-coated, flat pointed junk I used in my Ruger 9mm revolver.

No misfires, and accurate to boot.

My P99 also shot perfectly from the start. Best semi I've fired.

I like both the PPS and the P99 better than the P7 I used to own. The P7 was a great gun, wish I had kept it, but much heavier & bulkier.


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## sanctified

When you talk about PPS are you specifically talking about the police pistol slim? Are there others referred to as PPS? I have a 0.40 P99C with AS trigger and have had it now for about 1yr. I have fired both reloads and several name brand types of ammo to the tune of about 1500 rounds. I am more than satisfied with this gun and use it as my carry concealed choice. In fact I put it up against the glocks 26, 27, & 19 also the springfield XD and hands down I selected the Walther. Shot accurate is slimmer than both other handguns and I use the extended magazine with third finger grip. The glock in 0.40 was not even close when it came to smooth operation in fact after only one clip I noticed it kept biting my trigger finger and was not smooth. The Walther has a smoother trigger and is DA first shot and SA after that. If you don't decock it is SA action always. I like the option. XD was just too big and cluncky to even consider, not very concealable for a compact. Walther shot very accurate and the sites are adjustable and I did just that and made it even more accurate 2" grouping at 25ft every time I go to the range. I now want the P99c AS in 9mm as another option to carry. Also, looked at the Springfield EMP in 9mm and 0.40, but I can nearly buy two Walthers for the price of one of these. Hey, plus they look way cooler too!


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## JohnnyFlake

sanctified said:


> When you talk about PPS are you specifically talking about the police pistol slim? Are there others referred to as PPS? I have a 0.40 P99C with AS trigger and have had it now for about 1yr. I have fired both reloads and several name brand types of ammo to the tune of about 1500 rounds. I am more than satisfied with this gun and use it as my carry concealed choice. In fact I put it up against the glocks 26, 27, & 19 also the springfield XD and hands down I selected the Walther. Shot accurate is slimmer than both other handguns and I use the extended magazine with third finger grip. The glock in 0.40 was not even close when it came to smooth operation in fact after only one clip I noticed it kept biting my trigger finger and was not smooth. The Walther has a smoother trigger and is DA first shot and SA after that. If you don't decock it is SA action always. I like the option. XD was just too big and cluncky to even consider, not very concealable for a compact. Walther shot very accurate and the sites are adjustable and I did just that and made it even more accurate 2" grouping at 25ft every time I go to the range. I now want the P99c AS in 9mm as another option to carry. Also, looked at the Springfield EMP in 9mm and 0.40, but I can nearly buy two Walthers for the price of one of these. Hey, plus they look way cooler too!


I am referring to the Walther PPS9 only. I do not know anything about a PPC in 40 cal. The PPS9 is a DAO only, and is very slim at 1.04" wide. I don't think the PPS has been out as long as a year yet. I believe it came out this past Feb. or March. I ended up purchasing a Kahr P9 which I love. However, since it's been about two months, I am again looking to at least try a Walther PPS and possibly buy one of them as well. The big problem is, I cannot seem to find one at any of the shops in my area. There was a gun show in my area last week, and no one there had one either. I'll just have to be patient and wait until they are more readily available.


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## DUNEZRUNNER

Johnny,

Where in henderson did you get this gun at? I am looking at possibly getting either this gun or the taurus millenium. 

Thanks

Thomas


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