# question about hk's



## faustus (Mar 22, 2008)

can anybody please explain what is wrong with hk's trigger that makes it incompetent for competition shooting>????? also what other factors make an hk a disadvantage in competition???


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## jdavis6576 (Mar 29, 2008)

Sounds like someone is trolling...

Ever shot a Tactical with the match trigger or the LEM?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I've never felt an HK trigger that was even comparable to a good 1911 trigger. They also have long resets that slow down split times. All USP derivatives have very high bore axes which also increase splits.

These things make the HK pistols slower to shoot than some competing designs, and are the reasons you see few of them in shooting matches, at least once you get beyond the local level.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

**Please delete if vids are inappropriate, it was meant to show some friends that controlled doubles are possible with HK USP.**

I'm not so sure about reset times. I shoot HK's, Kimbers, Glocks, Kahrs, FN5.7, and others and I've never had a problem with resets. I think it has alot to do with familiarity and lots and lots of practice. All rounds were in the size of a paper plate. I don't have any vid of this pistol with the target in view, but I'll post one of my Kimber Raptor with target if people don't believe it. Good doubles are achievable with HK's with practice, but I guess that can be said about any gun.

The trigger on the HK really wasn't designed for competition by any means. It's much stiffer on purpose, so when you breath on it, it doesn't go off. It takes a very deliberate action, as a defensive pistol should in my opinion.

I will completely agree that my 1911's are far superior to any of my 'plastic' guns, but I shoot the HK well. I posted a 10.6 seconds on a drill they called "El Presidente". Not sure if that's a standard drill, but it involves back to target, buzzer, face targets (3), 2 on target one, 2 on target two, 2 on target three, reload, same thing back across the three targets. It just takes getting used to whatever weapon you are using.

Enjoy.

Zhur


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

"Par time" for El Prez is 10 seconds. Very good shooters with race guns can do it around 4-5 seconds. What are your times like when shooting a 1911 or a Glock in the same drill? What are your split times with the HK versus a 1911 or Glock?

Not saying the HKs can't be shot well. It's just easier with some other designs, which is why you don't see many HKs in competition.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Hell, I ain't that good!!!
I've only ever shot it with the HK and Beretta 92FS. Did better with the HK. I'll try it with the 1911's. Here I was thinking I did pretty good. Most the guys I've shot with can't get under 14 seconds. 

I'll have to talk the range master into starting that up again. Some guy that we had not shot with alot put a round into the floor and one into the ceiling. Kinda put a dampner on our "fun night" at the range.

Zhur


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

zhurdan said:


> I'll have to talk the range master into starting that up again. Some guy that we had not shot with alot put a round into the floor and one into the ceiling. Kinda put a dampner on our "fun night" at the range.


Yikes! You might suggest a quick skills assessment for new shooters. I used to shoot in a league that required an assessment by an RO, and for first-timers, a short class on drawing/shooting smoothly and safely. We never had an incident of questionable gunhandling that I ever saw.

And no one ever shot the floor. :mrgreen:


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

@ Mike,
Being you seem up on this stuff... Do you think the doubles could be faster with the HK? I'm not sure I could get them any closer, or should I focus more on transition from target to target? 

I really thought I'd worked that gun over enough times to be resetting that trigger right off the sear and firing again. Being HK triggers aren't really the best is one thing, but I can't use my Glock in 3-gun matches as it's ported and I want to stay in the Tactical category. I suppose I could us my Kimber... anyways.. any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Zhur


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Purely as a guess, I'd say your splits are in the .15-.20 range, which is very good. If your hits are on a normal paper plate at seven yards, you're doing pretty well. If you can get them down to the size of your palm, you're doing great.

The key with El Prez is smoothness from target to target. You can tell when someone is shooting El Prez right when you hear BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM. What you shouldn't hear is BOOM-BOOM-pause-BOOM-BOOM-pause-BOOM-BOOM. 

Basically, you should be moving between targets as you recover from the recoil, rather than letting the front sight settle back down before moving to the next target.

A good El Prez also requires a very fluid pivot, draw and a quick (well under 1.5 seconds shot-to-shot) reload.

Try some Bill Drills to smooth up your multiple shot recovery. This is six shots from the holster as fast as you can, making all A hits or the run doesn't count.


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## wiseguy (Feb 24, 2007)

I've heard that HK makes a mean .45....personally I cant shoot a .45 like the guy in that video, I haven't tried one from HK yet though. Is it his skill level or have they done something that makes it easily controllable? As for the triggers....I never really noticed the long pull/reset until i started shooting other guns frequently, is there a way to lessen the trigger play?


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## Arcus (Feb 13, 2008)

*Bore axis comparisons?*

I see mention of bore axis, perhaps most frequently from Mike, but have never seen actual measurements. Even more important would be comparisons between guns of equal caliber and equivalent barrel length. I'd love to see that one but never have. Please point me to it if anyone has.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

@ wiseguy

I've been shooting for about 26 years. Shooting is something I do alot of, as it is cheaper than a psychologist. (hehe)

It did take a while to get used to the trigger on the HK, but I can hit a paper plate sized target at 7-10 yards with probably 90% accuracy when shooting that fast. I haven't done any trigger work on the HK, nor do I think it would help much as the transfer bar on the HK is long and thick. I wouldn't want to mess with it too much. I'd say that grip and stance have more to do with being able to control the pistol at those speeds. I'll attach a vid of my Kimber Raptor 45 doing doubles as well. It doesn't have the same barrel length, it's an inch shorter, but still, it's a good shooter, mainly because I practice with it alot! People often talk about which gun is better than this or that gun, but honestly, I have a plethora of different guns and I shoot them all pretty much the same. I think it has more to do with finding a gun you like enough to shoot alot and get good with it, but that's just my opinion. Personally, I just like the challenge of being able to take a piece of machinery (gun) and make it do what I want it to do. Enjoy and shoot safe.

Zhur


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Movies, movies,.......................we want more movies!!!!:smt068


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Ohhh I've got a few movies tucked away somewhere. If there's an interest for it, perhaps a thread of vids of shooting. A show off section or something. Nothing dangerous of course, nothing illegal, all that jaz.

I dunno, I'm kinda new here so, you guys tell me. But I love to watch people enjoying their sport, especially when it's shooting.

Zhur


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

They might fit in the Shooter's Corner. Nothing but videos and stills. Doesn't necessarily have to be for only competition stuff. Whudda' 'ya think? :smt033


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## wiseguy (Feb 24, 2007)

@ Zhur, thanks for the advice, nice shootin Tex :smt023


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## Dr.K (Feb 13, 2007)

I recently won 1st CDP SS at the Badlands IDPA in Tulsa, OK.

I did it with a bone stock HK USP .45.

Sometimes it is not the gun, but just a whole lot of luck!

I do admit though, it might have been faster with a 1911, but mine was on the fritz.

If it feels right to you, go with the HK


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## Clyde (Jul 13, 2006)

faustus said:


> can anybody please explain what is wrong with hk's trigger that makes it incompetent for competition shooting>????? also what other factors make an hk a disadvantage in competition???


All a matter of opinion - I would say it has to do with the DA/SA trigger and / or long reset - as compared to 1911 or glock.

I shoot a HK P7 in matches - the longer reset does take some getting use to when coming from a 1911....But a pair time of El Prez with a HK - can be done.

Firearms Drills

Rock on Dr. K


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