# 38, 38+P, or 357 for HD?



## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Which hollow point would you guys choose among these three for home defense?

I currently have both 357 Federal HS as well as Corbon HP.

I need to give some consideration to going thru walls; effects of muzzle flash in a dark enviroment; recoil and speed of follow up shots etc. The .357 may not be my best choice if the first shot will blind me and go thru every wall in the house, out the window and into the house across the canyon. Plus I do put value on the ability to get two off fairly quickly. But I don't know if the 38 or +P is enough.

Most of you guys have way more ballistic knowledge than myself, so your input is appreciated. Any other factors I'm overlooking? Any particular brand you would suggest?

Thank you kindly.


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## akr (Mar 8, 2007)

In the house, I would choose .38+P in the middle weight. That's certainly not an expert opinion, but that's probably what I'd get. Someone more knowledgeable will come along shortly and give some more angles to which is best. :mrgreen:


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## forestranger (Jan 20, 2008)

Depends on frame and barrel length. Kept 2 k frame 357s as bedside guns loaded with 145 Silvertip for years. They shot to POA in both guns. Rem GS is a mid load and better for 5 shooters w/ short barrels but ballistcally, its like a +p 9mm. WWB 110 gr. 357 might be a good compromise on less muzzle blast and over penetration? I've switched to 45acp DA/SA with thumb safety with a backup 357...mainly because I shoot the 45 better.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Right, it's for my S&W 686-5. It's a medium frame (K or L), 4" barrel with 7 shots. Actually, it probably is my back-up as well since I would likely first grab my Baretta (night sights, 15 shots).

And you are also right that I didn't mention grain size (Doh!). Any advice on bullet weight would obviously help.


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## forestranger (Jan 20, 2008)

Most effective from all I've heard is full load 125 JHP 357. Supposed to be most effective load of all on two legged critters. Federal or Rem. usually recommended. I use 145 ST cause they shoot to POA in fixed sight M13 and M66 shoots tight groups with them. Suggest u buy a box of Rem. Golden Saber 125 , Fed. 130PD & 125, Win.145ST in 357 and Rem. 158+P LHP, Speer 135+p in 38SPL and see what u and your 357 like best. You may want to soak a 18" bundle of newpaper over night and shoot a load of each into it to compare relative expansion and penetration? A 38 is definitely going to have less muzzle blast. WWB 110 and Rem GS probably have the least of 357s I've tried.


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## rfawcs (Feb 11, 2006)

Check here for info

http://www.theboxotruth.com/


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## akr (Mar 8, 2007)

Be sure and have your ear plugs and ear muffs on the night stand as well as your weapon, if you desire to not have permanent hearing damage by shooting those .357 loads in the house.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I use Speer's Gold Dots 135gr hp's in my .357. It will stop any human coming at you.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

It takes a pretty experienced hand to shoot full-power .357s at realistic combat speed (at least four rounds per second _with good hits_). This would be my main concern. Even when I shot in practical competition, meaning I shot *a lot*, I had difficulty realistically controlling the trendy round at the time, the 125gr SJHP .357.

I don't know how the current loads flash, since I gave up on revolvers for defense several years ago. I do know that the older .357s produced a vicious muzzle flash (check out the cover of Mas Ayoob's book _StressFire_). While I don't normally think of some muzzle flash as a make-or-break thing, some of the magnum loads are just ridiculous, or at least the older ones were.

Box o' Truth appears to test only a single .357 load, a 158gr JHP out of a 6" Python. It goes through 9 sheets of drywall and stops in the 10th. This is a little more than 9mm/.40/.45 loads, and presumably more than a lower-velocity .38. But perhaps the difference between blasting through 3-4 walls and perforating 4-5 walls is academic.

So, based on the limited info available (and open to correction with added info), you might look into one of the reduced-power .357s or a .38 +P. The latter should especially be a breeze to shoot in a 686.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info guys, much obliged.

I've of course shot 38's thru the gun, but I haven't tried the +P's. That is on the to do list. At the range I haven't paid that much attention to refresh rates to follow up shots as I will also now do. Mike, I think you're right, the +P's should be a breeze with the 686. It is a substantial piece of equipment. 

It's tough though, when you have the fire power of a 357 to not want to have it at your disposal when you need it. Perhaps the first 2-3 charge holes with the quicker shooting +P and numbers 4-7 with the full monty.


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## Snowman (Jan 2, 2007)

Wyatt said:


> It's tough though, when you have the fire power of a 357 to not want to have it at your disposal when you need it. Perhaps the first 2-3 charge holes with the quicker shooting +P and numbers 4-7 with the full monty.


If you feel you can control a .357 well enough, more power to you. A .357 has been getting it done for a long time.

Anytime I hear something like loading the first few with this and the next few with that I get turned off. This also applies to those who load their shotguns up with buckshot followed by slugs, and pistols with hollow points following shotshells. It just seems so distracting to me. You're not going to want that on your mind if it comes time to use it. I mean, does it really make sense that you'll need them after the first 3 shots but not before?

My $.02 :smt023


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Practice with a moderate load but when it is life or death for yourself and your family put the hot boy's in there. If you miss you will go through several walls with any of them. If you hit properly the bullet should not have enough steam left on exit to do much harm. The 686 is heavy enough to handle the hot stuff. I reccomend nothing less than +P.

Before hand , practice, practice and more practice plus study legal aspects.

You indicated the .357 is backup gun. If I was still in trouble after 15 shots I would quite frankly want full blown .357 158 grain sjsp.

:smt1099


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

TOF said:


> You indicated the .357 is backup gun. If I was still in trouble after 15 shots I would quite frankly want full blown .357 158 grain sjsp.
> 
> :smt1099


Bwahaha!! True that! I only think my 686 would be back up because the night sights on my Beretta are a big plus in total darkness. The 15 round capacity is a benefit as well. But they are both in the same box and if I needed one of them you can be sure I'm grabbing both. But I'm not going to go running out into the living room, gun in each hand, blazing away Butch Cassidy style.

The other consideration is if I felt I needed to arm wifey, since she has only a little experience, I would give her the revolver. She is slight of build so a lighter load may be easier for her to handle.

You are right though, for pure damage infliction, it's the 357. Good point also that they will all go through walls.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Wyatt said:


> Bwahaha!! True that! I only think my 686 would be back up because the night sights on my Beretta are a big plus in total darkness. The 15 round capacity is a benefit as well. But they are both in the same box and if I needed one of them you can be sure I'm grabbing both. But I'm not going to go running out into the living room, gun in each hand, blazing away Butch Cassidy style.
> 
> The other consideration is if I felt I needed to arm wifey, since she has only a little experience, I would give her the revolver. She is slight of build so a lighter load may be easier for her to handle.
> 
> You are right though, for pure damage infliction, it's the 357. Good point also that they will all go through walls.


Bringing wifey in to the picture presents your question in a different light. Although My wife has a 24 Oz. snubby rather than a big 686 the problem is similar. I loaded her up with straight .38 Special ammo. As she becomes more comfortable with it, if ever, I may up the power level. She has been eyeing my GP100 and if she can handle it may step up in power level. Small grips are on order for that reason. I reload, so can tune practice loads slowly upward as she progresses. She carries to chase off black bear not boogy men so I realy want her carrying fullhouse loads when hiking.

:smt1099


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

BTW TOF, could you explain your preference for the sjsp over a hollow point? I'm not well versed in this area and thought the hollow point was typically considered the better stopper.

Thanks.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I would caution against practicing with light loads and loading with magnums for defense. The cops used to do this until it was a contributor to some police deaths in Newhall, CA. In a bit of history, this led to the use of full-power magnums for practice, which shook K-frame Smiths to pieces and led to the introduction of the L-frames like your 686.

If you intend to use magnums for defense, get yourself used to the blast and flash _before_ you get in a fight. A gunfight is not the time to be trying new things.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> I would caution against practicing with light loads and loading with magnums for defense. The cops used to do this until it was a contributor to some police deaths in Newhall, CA. In a bit of history, this led to the use of full-power magnums for practice, which shook K-frame Smiths to pieces and led to the introduction of the L-frames like your 686.
> 
> If you intend to use magnums for defense, get yourself used to the blast and flash _before_ you get in a fight. A gunfight is not the time to be trying new things.


That is the reason for Loading Wifey with .38 Spl. untill she is accustomed to heavier loads. Increase practice loads prior to increasing carry loads.

Once accustomed to full load however, I see no reason to not use lighter less expensive loads for a good portion of practice. An experienced shooter can jump around from gun to gun and ammo to ammo without destroying his ability to use his normal carry piece.

Wyatt, .357 SJSP's have been around since the stone age and have proven to be very effective stoppers. Their exposed soft point causes expansion as do the modern hollow points but there is no hollow to fill up with hair, fuzz balls or clothing. They are not a "Magic Bullet" but neither are the gold plated ones that get all the hype. Besides I'm from the stone age and like them.

:smt1099


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