# What is this gun?



## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

I was recently looking at some old photos of my brother when he was in Vietnam. After all these years, it finally occurred to me to ask what gun he's holding. Does anyone know?
He was a WO, and flew Huey's in Vietnam. This was taken sometime in 1969.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Isn't that a M1 (or M2) Carbine 30 caliber? They were still in fairly heavy use among Airborne and Huey teams in Viet Nam. They got a lot of use by the South Vietnamese Army as well. Your brother seems to be holding a folding stock version which were quite common by then. The M2 was select fire so with its 30 round magazine, a decent CQB rifle for many.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

It is some version of the M1 Carbine.
It seems to be either the M1A1 or the M2A1 Paratrooper version, but its barrel has been shortened considerably, maybe by 7" or 8".


(Craig and I were posting the same information, at the same time.)


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Thanks. Someone suggested it might be an M3? But I trust the opinions here.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Wandering Man said:


> I was recently looking at some old photos of my brother when he was in Vietnam. After all these years, it finally occurred to me to ask what gun he's holding. Does anyone know?
> He was a WO, and flew Huey's in Vietnam. This was taken sometime in 1969.


That appears to be an "M1 Enforcer" pistol, made by Universal. Several different companies made pistol-style M1 .30-Carbine-caliber firearms in the 60s and 70s, and the pictured gun seems to be one of those. They were NOT military issue, but it's no secret that many non-military-issue firearms found their way to the war in Vietnam, and were carried by our troops. I say this is probably the Universal-brand pistol because of the shape of the base of the pistol grip, which is visible in the photo below the right hand. More info and a great video on the subject can be found here:

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m1-enforcer-carbine-pistols-at-ria/

I fired one of these pistols many years ago, and with surplus ball ammo, the muzzle-flash fireball was absolutely epic, and could be seen even in bright sunlight. However, burning much of your gunpowder out in FRONT of the firearm doesn't do much for the power of your ammo. Think of it as a 60s/70s version of the more modern Intratec TEC-9, TEC-DC9, or AB-10 pistols in 9mm, and you won't be far off base.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

They only made around 3,000 M3 versions which had a mount for an infrared night sight.

As for an Enforcer Pistol. I thought that initially, but after looking very closely at your brother's side, I believe I see part of that folding stock. I guess, I just can't tell, but I'm sticking with military issue M1/M2 folding stock


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Well, that is a possibility. You are right about the pistol grip. Here it is from another angle:


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

No, I may have been wrong. I thought I saw a folding stock which doesn't appear here. DJ Niner may be right. Possibly, your brother might have cut it himself. Who knows? What we all agree on is that this is some kind of M1 Carbine.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Wandering Man said:


> Thanks. Someone suggested it might be an M3? But I trust the opinions here.


The M3 is the WWII era 'grease gun' in .45 ACP that was used mostly by tank crews, in WWII and in wide use in the infantry, in the Korean War.

The gun in your picture appears to be an Iver Johnson M-1 Enforcer pistol, which was developed in the civilian market, after WWII.

*Iver Johnson Arms Enforcer*

There was also a 'Super Enforcer' which had full auto capability. Here is one you can own for $11,500:

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...n-fully-automatic-class-iiinfa-super-enforcer


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Sorry, DJ Niner - I overlooked your post. Looks like you were on top of the situation. The article I found mentioned it as being made by IJ, but that is in question, now.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Bisley said:


> The M3 is the WWII era 'grease gun' in .45 ACP that was used mostly by tank crews, in WWII and in wide use in the infantry, in the Korean War.


There are various firearms called M1, M2, M3 etc. It's a progressive designation for a line of arms adopted by the US Military. For example, you have an M1 Garrand, and M1 Carbine and an M1 Abrams Tank. I don't know what the Army used to designate the M1 and M2 in sub machine guns so as to get to M3 in the Grease Gun. At that time, they were moving from a different naming scheme to the current one. M2 can refer to anything from carbines, to tanks, to mortors, etc. M3 can refer to a M1 with night scope mount or can refer to the aforementioned Grease Gun as well as an anti-tank gun, a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Stuart Tank, a 20mm Cannon, a fighting knife, a half-track and a lot of other things of various genre adopted by the US Military. Even the civilian market uses such naming. I have a Leica M3 camera, for example. and No, it's not for sale.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Craigh said:


> ...I have a Leica M3 camera, for example. and No, it's not for sale.


:mrgreen: :anim_lol:


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Craigh said:


> No, I may have been wrong. I thought I saw a folding stock which doesn't appear here. DJ Niner may be right. Possibly, your brother might have cut it himself. Who knows? What we all agree on is that this is some kind of M1 Carbine.


Having seen the second photo, I still think it's a pistol version of an M1 Carbine, but now that I can see the entire grip, it looks completely different than the Universal-made one I saw in the video I linked, above.

It's possible that it was a home-made, or even a military-gunsmith-made, version of a cut-down full-sized .30 caliber carbine, as Craigh said, above. All we can really tell for sure is the magazine indicates a .30 Carbine chambering and probable parentage.

We won't get into the possibility of it being a .22 Spitfire/5.7 Johnson...
(unless someone WANTS to...) :mrgreen:


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The M1 Carbine pistol may not even have a military designation. The fact that the soldier in the picture was a helicopter pilot suggests that he may have felt the need to supplement what the Army supplied him with, considering the dangers involved in landing troops under fire. Many pilots have done that, and most commanders will not strictly enforce regulations in a combat zone that they believe have failed to address a genuine need.


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Wow! This is like my brother reaching out to me from the grave. Thanks to DJ Niner's post, I've learned about the existence of the gun.

I am behind in reading my copies of the Rifleman. I'm trying to catch up now that I am semi-retired. Yesterday, just three days after DJ Niner's post, I opened the May 2016 American Rifleman and came across this article:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/18/inland-mfgs-new-production-m1-carbine/

Which led me to this site:
https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Handguns/M1-Advisor.html

I don't reload .30 Carbine, and don't shoot rifles much, but I confess I am tempted to buy the Advisor Pistol, just because of it's similarity to the one Kirby had.

Craigh and Steve 1911A-1 put me on the right track, but the video DJ linked for me really helped me see the gun.

Thanks guys for putting me in touch with a piece of my brother's history.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

DJ Niner said:


> Having seen the second photo, I still think it's a pistol version of an M1 Carbine, but now that I can see the entire grip, it looks completely different than the Universal-made one I saw in the video I linked, above:


We must keep in mind and after having done some research, I've discovered the grip on these models varied greatly from the customized homemade to everything in between. I think I'm seeing finger-grooves on that second pic of the grip but then again, I think I may be seeing something attached to the grip?


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