# Reliable Semi Autos



## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

Hello to all,
I am considering purchasing a firearm for HD/EDC. I have done lots of homework and research trying to narrow down the list but it looks like even the high quality/name brand firearms are sent back to the manufacturers because of malfunctions of various sorts. I mean, any type of machinery that's designed to function automatically, has the potential for failure. But I mean, in a life or death situation, I, like anybody, would want a gun, that I believe without a doubt, is going to function properly. Can anybody suggest a firearm that has been rigorously tested and is proven to be reliable?

Thanks!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

There are tons of choices. But., the reason there are so many choices is because everyone likes something different. 

You will undoubtedly get some replies with specifics. But, by following that - you will likely end up with someone else's favorite gun. Doesn't mean it will work for you. 

At some point, I've owned pretty much everything over the past 30 years. What I like now isn't what I liked in years past. 

But to make it easy on you - I think maybe if you give us your price point, we can give you some suggestions that are known to be reliable.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Sceptical1 said:


> Hello to all,
> I am considering purchasing a firearm for HD/EDC. I have done lots of homework and research trying to narrow down the list but it looks like even the high quality/name brand firearms are sent back to the manufacturers because of malfunctions of various sorts. I mean, any type of machinery that's designed to function automatically, has the potential for failure. But I mean, in a life or death situation, I, like anybody, would want a gun, that I believe without a doubt, is going to function properly. Can anybody suggest a firearm that has been rigorously tested and is proven to be reliable?
> 
> Thanks!


Sure you can have an issue with any mechanical devise even with brand name products. But your still better off buying from a manufacturer that has had the least amount of issues and the greatest amount of customer satisfaction. Especially if you have to deal with a warrantee if something goes wrong. Sure just send it back and they'll take care of it for you. Weeks go by and you find yourself calling customer service trying to find out what's happening with your gun? They tell you that they're working on it and you should receive it shortly. Weeks go by again and you still don't have your gun back. Finally you get the gun back and it's still not right. Do you want to take the gamble and deal with that?

Sometimes there are issues that can be resolved by the purchaser themselves if they understand how the gun operates other than just pulling the trigger and expecting it to go BANG. Some people just don't know shit about guns and they're too quick to send it back when they are the one's who caused the problem. Mostly due to poor maintenance, how they hold the gun or it may be ammo related. Then they'll complain to the world about what a piece of shit they bought. Don't get me wrong some guns really are pieces of shit regardless of how well they are maintained.

A firearm is something that you may have to use one day to save your life or that of a loved one. It makes no sense whatsoever to cut corners buying from a company that's had a bad reputation just to save a few bucks. When buying a product that your life may depend on you're better off buying from a manufacturer that the professionals choose. After all they stand the greatest chance of having to use one of their products to save their own lives or the lives of others. They carry them day in and day out in all types of conditions. Failure is not an option.

That being said most of the nation's law enforcement agencies use Glocks. Before that it was S&W revolvers and then their semi auto's. Our military once used Colt 1911's then switched to Beretta M9's and now Sig P320's. The Navy Seals use Glock 19's and Sig P226's. The Secret Service, Sig P229's. Some special operation's units use HK USP's and VP's. CZ's, Walther's and HK's are used throughout Europe.

My suggestion to you would be a Gen 3 Glock 19 if cost is an issue. They can be had for around $500 maybe a little less. It holds 15 rounds, is relatively easy to conceal, there are God only knows how many parts, holsters and magazines available for it and it's a tried and true design that's withstood the test of time. Not only that but it's probably the easiest gun to work on if you ever do have a problem with it. It's so God damn simple, with the least amount of moving parts out of all the guns that I own and worked on.

If you want to spend more money then sure there are better options out there. Better in the sense that they are better made. They have nicer actions and triggers, the machining, fit and finish is more refined etc. That's what you're paying extra for. But for the average person that just wants a gun that they can depend on and one that will give them a lifetime of relatively trouble free service it's hard to beat a Glock. Regardless of which model and caliber you buy, a Glock is a Glock is a Glock. They just work, PERIOD.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

See, I will say that while I have owned many Glocks over the years - I never really liked them that much... UNTIL the newest, 5th Generation. They REALLY got me back into Glock... So, I would suggest 5th gen over the 3rd Gen Glocks.

But once again, we are getting into personal preference, which is different for everyone


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Generally, most all main manufacturers are going to produce very reliable pistols, especially if you mantain them.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> See, I will say that while I have owned many Glocks over the years - I never really liked them that much until the newest, 5th Generation. So, I would suggest 5th gen over the 3rdf Gen Glocks.
> 
> But once again, we are getting into personal preference, which is different for everyone


My personal preference for polymer frame guns are HK's VP series. You can expect to pay between $100-$200 more over a comparable Glock. At one time I swore that I'd never own a Glock let alone any polymer framed "Tupperware" gun. Now I've got a bunch of them of different makes, shapes and sizes, FN, Glock, HK, Ruger, Sig, Springfield and Walther. But as you mentioned in your Post #2* "I think maybe if you give us your price point, we can give you some suggestions that are known to be reliable." *That makes an awful lot of sense. Otherwise I would have told them to go out and buy a $180 Hi Point or maybe a $3,000 Wilson?

It sounds like this person is just looking to buy a good reliable gun that they can depend on. In which case a Glock regardless of generation would be a good place to start. The biggest complaint that I've heard about them is their ergonomics. Some don't like the trigger? I haven't found that to be a problem except when compared to a HK VP series pistol. The HK just feels to me like it was tailor made for my hand. Glock wins hands down when it comes to all of the parts and accessories that are available for them plus their simplicity, especially when working on them. HK's tend to be over engineered for what they are as are most German made guns. They're still my favorite polymer framed pistol. You know you've got a well made gun with an HK.

But at this point in time I've got enough guns now that it's hard for me to pick a favorite? Then it gets even more complicated when I start breaking it down into categories. Favorite DA/SA? Favorite SA only? All steel or steel/alloy construction? The only gun that ever gave me a problem was my Kimber Solo 9mm. That f'n thing jammed with just about anything that I ran through it. It was a great concept though and in spite of it's diminutive size the ergonomics were very good. Unfortunately the gun wasn't cheap yet it wasn't worth shit. It's no wonder Kimber dropped it. Their EVO is a fantastic little gun. In spite of the Solo being a piece of shit I went out and took a chance on that one too. This is one very well made gun, it feels great in my hand and has been 100% reliable with anything that I've put through it. I guess they learned their lesson?


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

In my log book, my Berretta Px4 compact has over 3,000 rounds through it with no problems in that interval (I had some initial issues on my very first outing which got sorted out.). CZ P07 at 2,800 rounds with no problems ever. Sig P226 no problems in lots and lots of rounds. (Hadn't started my log book yet.). Canik TP9V2 2,400 rounds with no problems. Glock 19, Glock 17, Glock 26, no problems, also with lots and lots of rounds. Likely that my Glock 17 has my highest total round count but I wasnt’t logging a round count in the 10 years that it was my “do-all” handgun. Beretta 92FS also with an unknown round count, never a problem.

a couple of the pistols went 2,000 rounds with no cleaning Just to prove a point to myself. But on E any of my handguns is in carry rotation, it gets cleaned after every shooting session, and if stored for a prolonged period, it gets cleaned again before being carried. If carried a lot and not fired, It gets cleaned weekly To keep the lint and garbage from building up.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

First off find one you can shoot comfortably by trying out different handguns. Putting rounds on target is what counts most. Learn to maintain it correctly. Don't exspect to get a great gun for barin basement prices. Good luck with your hunt for your handgun.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yea, I would go somewhere and rent several, and see what works for you best.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

Don't over look the Revolver .
With the semi-auto ...the ammunition , the firearm and the magazine all play a role in functioning .
Feeding , fireing , extraction , and loading are a delicate dance all parts must perform together in perfect unison , one fails and they all fail . I got tired of doing the ammo , magazine , feeding , fireing extraction and ejection two step !
After 50 years of shooting , reloading , carry experience I have as my EDC a J frame S&W air-WWeight revolver and as night stand a model 58 S&W N-frame S&W in 41 magnum .
The revolvers have always fired ... never a failure to feed , eject or load . No safety to fiddle with .
Something to think about .
Gary


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

gwpercle said:


> Don't over look the Revolver .
> With the semi-auto ...the ammunition , the firearm and the magazine all play a role in functioning .
> Feeding , fireing , extraction , and loading are a delicate dance all parts must perform together in perfect unison , one fails and they all fail . I got tired of doing the ammo , magazine , feeding , fireing extraction and ejection two step !
> After 50 years of shooting , reloading , carry experience I have as my EDC a J frame S&W air-WWeight revolver and as night stand a model 58 S&W N-frame S&W in 41 magnum .
> ...


Thank you, sir. I have been thinking along those lines because like I said, when something is designed to function automatically, apprehension is always there, if not conscientiously, then sub conscientiously. 
Please stay safe!


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> Yea, I would go somewhere and rent several, and see what works for you best.


Thank you so much!


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

tony pasley said:


> First off find one you can shoot comfortably by trying out different handguns. Putting rounds on target is what counts most. Learn to maintain it correctly. Don't exspect to get a great gun for barin basement prices. Good luck with your hunt for your handgun.


I sincerely appreciate your response/ Thank you!


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

SSGN_Doc said:


> In my log book, my Berretta Px4 compact has over 3,000 rounds through it with no problems in that interval (I had some initial issues on my very first outing which got sorted out.). CZ P07 at 2,800 rounds with no problems ever. Sig P226 no problems in lots and lots of rounds. (Hadn't started my log book yet.). Canik TP9V2 2,400 rounds with no problems. Glock 19, Glock 17, Glock 26, no problems, also with lots and lots of rounds. Likely that my Glock 17 has my highest total round count but I wasnt’t logging a round count in the 10 years that it was my “do-all” handgun. Beretta 92FS also with an unknown round count, never a problem.
> 
> a couple of the pistols went 2,000 rounds with no cleaning Just to prove a point to myself. But on E any of my handguns is in carry rotation, it gets cleaned after every shooting session, and if stored for a prolonged period, it gets cleaned again before being carried. If carried a lot and not fired, It gets cleaned weekly To keep the lint and garbage from building up.


Thank you so much for sharing!


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

desertman said:


> My personal preference for polymer frame guns are HK's VP series. You can expect to pay between $100-$200 more over a comparable Glock. At one time I swore that I'd never own a Glock let alone any polymer framed "Tupperware" gun. Now I've got a bunch of them of different makes, shapes and sizes, FN, Glock, HK, Ruger, Sig, Springfield and Walther. But as you mentioned in your Post #2* "I think maybe if you give us your price point, we can give you some suggestions that are known to be reliable." *That makes an awful lot of sense. Otherwise I would have told them to go out and buy a $180 Hi Point or maybe a $3,000 Wilson?
> 
> It sounds like this person is just looking to buy a good reliable gun that they can depend on. In which case a Glock regardless of generation would be a good place to start. The biggest complaint that I've heard about them is their ergonomics. Some don't like the trigger? I haven't found that to be a problem except when compared to a HK VP series pistol. The HK just feels to me like it was tailor made for my hand. Glock wins hands down when it comes to all of the parts and accessories that are available for them plus their simplicity, especially when working on them. HK's tend to be over engineered for what they are as are most German made guns. They're still my favorite polymer framed pistol. You know you've got a well made gun with an HK.
> 
> But at this point in time I've got enough guns now that it's hard for me to pick a favorite? Then it gets even more complicated when I start breaking it down into categories. Favorite DA/SA? Favorite SA only? All steel or steel/alloy construction? The only gun that ever gave me a problem was my Kimber Solo 9mm. That f'n thing jammed with just about anything that I ran through it. It was a great concept though and in spite of it's diminutive size the ergonomics were very good. Unfortunately the gun wasn't cheap yet it wasn't worth shit. It's no wonder Kimber dropped it. Their EVO is a fantastic little gun. In spite of the Solo being a piece of shit I went out and took a chance on that one too. This is one very well made gun, it feels great in my hand and has been 100% reliable with anything that I've put through it. I guess they learned their lesson?


I really appreciate this information, sir. Well, I wouldn't mind paying $700-$750 for a firearm that's known for its reliability. I think I might have heard the name HK before but I did't think they were that well engineered.


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> There are tons of choices. But., the reason there are so many choices is because everyone likes something different.
> 
> You will undoubtedly get some replies with specifics. But, by following that - you will likely end up with someone else's favorite gun. Doesn't mean it will work for you.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for responding. I wouldn't have a problem at all paying $700-$750 for a firearm that has been proven dependable.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Sceptical1 said:


> I really appreciate this information, sir. Well, I wouldn't mind paying $700-$750 for a firearm that's known for its reliability. I think I might have heard the name HK before but I did't think they were that well engineered.


Oh they are well engineered alright, I can assure you that.


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## Higgy Baby (Aug 10, 2021)

I recently saw on another forum- a thread similar to this asking about 1st gun.
Of course there were opinions from everyone.....but the suggestion that really caught my eye- was something like this: "Just make sure you don't go out and buy the biggest gun you can find in the largest caliber available". That will be a mistake. And I do agree with that. I also agree with - go rent some and shoot them- see what you like. Do it several times. Because this rule applies to everyone: 
Lots of folks like Glock- but lots don't.
Lots of folks like S&W- but lots don't.
Lots of folks like Ruger-.........and on and on. So- pick what you like- not what someone else does.


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

desertman said:


> Oh they are well engineered alright, I can assure you that.


Okay.Thank you!


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

Higgy Baby said:


> I recently saw on another forum- a thread similar to this asking about 1st gun.
> Of course there were opinions from everyone.....but the suggestion that really caught my eye- was something like this: "Just make sure you don't go out and buy the biggest gun you can find in the largest caliber available". That will be a mistake. And I do agree with that. I also agree with - go rent some and shoot them- see what you like. Do it several times. Because this rule applies to everyone:
> Lots of folks like Glock- but lots don't.
> Lots of folks like S&W- but lots don't.
> Lots of folks like Ruger-.........and on and on. So- pick what you like- not what someone else does.


I will definitely take this to heart. Thanks a million!!


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## old tanker (10 mo ago)

Best advice so far has been to go rent and see what you like best. Another is find some friends who shoot who are willing to let you try out their guns. All mechanical devices can malfunction, revolvers included, but it is tough to limp wrist a revolver.


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## Sceptical1 (10 mo ago)

old tanker said:


> Best advice so far has been to go rent and see what you like best. Another is find some friends who shoot who are willing to let you try out their guns. All mechanical devices can malfunction, revolvers included, but it is tough to limp wrist a revolver.


Great advice. Thank you!!


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

gwpercle said:


> Don't over look the Revolver .
> With the semi-auto ...the ammunition , the firearm and the magazine all play a role in functioning .
> Feeding , fireing , extraction , and loading are a delicate dance all parts must perform together in perfect unison , one fails and they all fail . I got tired of doing the ammo , magazine , feeding , fireing extraction and ejection two step !
> After 50 years of shooting , reloading , carry experience I have as my EDC a J frame S&W air-WWeight revolver and as night stand a model 58 S&W N-frame S&W in 41 magnum .
> ...


^^^THIS^^^ OP, once you buy one handgun, and get used to it, you'll want another...then another...then, you get my point. I love revolvers as much as I do anything else, and own a few. I actually carry them quite often. Some guys complain about the 5-6 shot capacity, but I always carry at least one reload on a speed strip, but usually two. Besides, revolvers are hardly ever "ammo sensitive", and you can run anything from snake shot to full house man stoppers through them, and 99% of the time, they always go bang.

I have heard some people say that they are harder to master shooting properly, but I have never really noticed this. I present it to the target, line up the sights (like on slide guns), and touch off the shot. If anything, the reload is slower, and I can usually put rounds on target a tad faster with a slide gun, but what am I really looking to do here? Chances are, I am going to square off against one or two attackers, and I can handle any of my wheel guns fast enough to do this. 

There is one big ole fat advantage to a revolver, versus a semi-auto, and that is the fact that if someone got in real close, you can shove that barrel up into their gut, and pop their dumb butt repeatedly...try that with a semi-auto. You MIGHT get off one shot, as long as the slide is not pushed outta battery. Revolvers are "visceral" pieces. JMHO.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

I’ve been mostly an auto pistol shooter for 30+ years. Doesn’t mean I don’t own or like revolvers, I just do better and feel most confident in autoloaders. I find them more recoil friendly Since some of that energy is being distributed to slide and springs to load the next round and reset the hammer or striker. Reloading is easier than with a revolver.

I’ve been on a recent kick of buying snub nosed revolvers, and will share that I feel many new shooters get directed towards small revolvers as a first handgun by mistake. While revolvers tend to be reliable in cycling from one shot to another, they may not be friendly in other areas. And the smaller and lighter they are, the less forgiving they are in both recoil and ease of shooting well. This co often frustrates new shooters. An Airweight J-Frame is an easy gun to carry and it is generally very reliable. It also generally comes with abbreviated grips with an exposed back strap, which will let one know when they are firing +P rounds. The light weight, means a little less inertia to absorb recoil, but also reduce movement of the handgun while pulling the trigger. The short sight radius makes for less precision in aiming ability (not that snubbies are intended for target competition. They technically have the same mechanical accuracy potential as a larger revolver, just a reduced set of features for the shooter to take advantage of that mechanical accuracy potential.)

Of my snubbies, my all steel revolvers are more pleasant to shoot and practice with. The Airweght is more pleasant to carry. A 3” or 4” barrel increases sight radius and makes target shooting easier. A full grip or one that at least allows all three fingers below the index finger to grasp the grip, makes recoil management and control and stability while firing easier. 

when it comes to performing reloads with speed loaders, speed strips or singe round loading, there are more things to mess up with regard to dexterity And about a half dozen or more techniques which can be taught. It can be a lot to take in for a new shooter. 

nothing wrong with a wheel gun, but the learning curve to wring the most out of one can be a bit steep. The basics are straight forward, but lea4ning to run one defensively can take some time, and snubby revolvers multiply the effect when starting out.

one of my first handguns was a S&W K frame with 4” barrel in .22 LR. Great handgun. Easy for learning the basics.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

berettatoter said:


> There is one big ole fat advantage to a revolver, versus a semi-auto, and that is the fact that if someone got in real close, you can shove that barrel up into their gut, and pop their dumb butt repeatedly...try that with a semi-auto. You MIGHT get off one shot, as long as the slide is not pushed outta battery. Revolvers are "visceral" pieces. JMHO.


Can be done with fixed barrel blow backs like a PPK. pocket firing in a jacket pocket can give the revolver an advantage though. Slides tend to bind inside a pocket where a cylinder may not. (Hammers on revolvers can get fouled though inside a pocket.

I’ve seen these techniques demonstrated with revolvers and fixed barrel semis. Mostly to demonstrate the vulnerabilities to be aware of.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

SSGN_Doc said:


> Can be done with fixed barrel blow backs like a PPK. pocket firing in a jacket pocket can give the revolver an advantage though. Slides tend to bind inside a pocket where a cylinder may not. (Hammers on revolvers can get fouled though inside a pocket.
> 
> I’ve seen these techniques demonstrated with revolvers and fixed barrel semis. Mostly to demonstrate the vulnerabilities to be aware of.


I actually tried the "shoot through a pocket" routine once. I had an an old jacket that got the nod for the sacrifice. I got this one from the factory, with a totally "bobbed" hammer, and I went through 10 total rounds, with no pocket binding at all. Five rounds of a Hornady 110 grain .38 Special +P, and five rounds of a PMC 158 grain .357 Semi-wadcutter Hollow Point. Made a smokey mess of the pocket, but proved the point to me.










I do have other revolvers, with hammers, that I could see possibly getting bound up. As far as a PPK "blowback" goes, if you got into some belly fat, it could still push that slide out of battery.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

berettatoter said:


> I actually tried the "shoot through a pocket" routine once. I had an an old jacket that got the nod for the sacrifice. I got this one from the factory, with a totally "bobbed" hammer, and I went through 10 total rounds, with no pocket binding at all. Five rounds of a Hornady 110 grain .38 Special +P, and five rounds of a PMC 158 grain .357 Semi-wadcutter Hollow Point. Made a smokey mess of the pocket, but proved the point to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


my two current snubby revolvers have enclosed hammers.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

I don't think that shooting a gun while it's in a coat pocket would be a very wise idea. Unless you don't mind taking the chance of setting your coat on fire?


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## old tanker (10 mo ago)

The Centennial is about as snag free as a J-frame gets. If you really want to get their attention, the 640-1 in .357 is a most excellent pocket cannon.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

old tanker said:


> The Centennial is about as snag free as a J-frame gets. If you really want to get their attention, the 640-1 in .357 is a most excellent pocket cannon.
> 
> View attachment 20625
> 
> View attachment 20626


Indeed


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