# CCW mistakes



## Packard

*Mistake #1.*
The other day I was at Sam's Club (Walmart's wholesale big box store). The guy ahead of me on the check out line opens his wallet and in the window that is supposed to hold your driver's license he has his pistol permit. Error.

To the greatest extent possible it is best to have as few people know that you own weapons as is possible. Having the license in plain view like that is a mistake. Indeed having your driver's license in plain view like that is also a mistake, especially for women. Why would you want a stranger on a checkout line to know your name and address?

*Mistake #2.*
A guy at Starbucks was wearing a button up shirt that looked to be about 1 size too big. Right away I suspected he was carrying. He was not doing anything "wrong" but the over-sized shirt was a tell.

And then he did a weapon check. He quickly put his hand to the butt of the gun and touched it. It clearly printed through the shirt when he did so. Why the weapon check? He could not feel that weapon in the belt? Was the holster not securely holding the weapon? This too was an error.
*
Mistake #3*
A woman in our office has applied for her CCW license. She has let everyone in the office know that she has done so. This error goes back to the point I made in the "error #1" that to the greatest extent possible have the fewest people know that you have guns.

I would invite others to list any CCW mistakes here too.

My dad used to say that any fool could learn from his mistakes; a wise man learns from other peoples' mistakes. It is my hope that this thread will give us all an opportunity to learn from others' mistakes.


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## AirForceShooter

I have a CCW. I don't care who knows.
I carry a gun concealed, I don't care who knows.
I have guns in my house, I don't care who knows.

Different strokes

AFS


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## BigDog1135

:watching:


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## ozzy

Playing chase the laser at the local pet store.


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## M1gunr

AirForceShooter said:


> I have a CCW. I don't care who knows.
> I carry a gun concealed, I don't care who knows.
> I have guns in my house, I don't care who knows.
> Different strokes
> AFS


As an Open Carry activist I agree. However when I CC, no one is the wiser.


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## Bisley

AirForceShooter said:


> I have a CCW. I don't care who knows.
> I carry a gun concealed, I don't care who knows.
> I have guns in my house, I don't care who knows.
> 
> Different strokes
> 
> AFS


There are several reasons why I take the opposite approach, although I don't fault anyone else for having a different one.

Mainly, it just serves no useful purpose (that I recognize) to have anyone know that I am armed. I don't want anyone expecting me to intervene in any altercation that might arise, just because they know I have a gun, nor do I want to have any debates about my decision to carry a lethal weapon with anyone whose 'common sense' tells them to depend on policemen, or the benevolence of their assailant, for protection of their loved ones.

Also, my personal strategy for defending myself, should the need ever arise, depends heavily upon the assailant being ignorant of the fact that I have a gun and can hit what I aim at...there will be no bluffing or brandishing. If the situation has deteriorated to the point where I believe people are about to be hurt, I hope to be able to draw my gun before the bad guy can react in any other way except immediate surrender, retreat, or to say "uh-oh."


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## Packard

Bisley said:


> There are several reasons why I take the opposite approach, although I don't fault anyone else for having a different one.
> 
> Mainly, it just serves no useful purpose (that I recognize) to have anyone know that I am armed. I don't want anyone expecting me to intervene in any altercation that might arise, just because they know I have a gun, nor do I want to have any debates about my decision to carry a lethal weapon with anyone whose 'common sense' tells them to depend on policemen, or the benevolence of their assailant, for protection of their loved ones.
> 
> Also, my personal strategy for defending myself, should the need ever arise, depends heavily upon the assailant being ignorant of the fact that I have a gun and can hit what I aim at...there will be no bluffing or brandishing. If the situation has deteriorated to the point where I believe people are about to be hurt, I hope to be able to draw my gun before the bad guy can react in any other way except immediate surrender, retreat, or to say "uh-oh."


My point exactly. If the bad guy knows you are armed he can take steps that he believes will give him the upper hand. For example on a home invasion he could enter the home and spray every person in the home with .223s "just to be safe".

Whereas if he does not know you are armed you have the upper hand.

As in the military conflicts it is always best when the enemy does not know your strategy or your strength.


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## RocKNGlockRob

Well packard, 
1. You worry way too much, or you have to much time on your hands
2. I have my ccw's permit whit my drivers license as , well, and there is a reason, in the state of pa, if you should get pulled over, you better show that ccw permit with your license, 1. It goes along way with the officer with you being an honest gun owner, and the appreciate that, especially if you have right by your side..
3. And when i carry whatever gun on my fobus holster i usually where a jersey, and im a yankees fan , so it will be a button down jersey, and usually you cant tell im carrying, and i do from time to time, put my hand on the butt of the gun just to make sure its secure, you obviously arent paying attention to people and seeing there point of view that maybe they dont want there gun falling out? You ever think of that? Cause this post is what i think and this is my opinion, that you worry too much about other people, do you look at everyone to see if there carrying? Cause i really think you do.. I almost can guarantee you do, dont get me wrong, im not talking down to you, please dont take this the wrong way, what you and everyone else need to do is worry about yourselves, and how you carry, or where you put your ccw's permit, but i cant stress it enough that if you give that to an officer with your drivers license how far that will go, so instead of worry about this and that, try to worry about how you want yourself to carry, cause its up to each person what they choose to do.. Cant make it any simplier .. But you make good points, you just seem to worry too much about everyone else, and if there is someone thinking of holding up a place or what have you, they might think twice if they know your carrying a gun, hope you have a great day, thanks for the thread ..

Rocknglock


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## zhurdan

RocKNGlockRob said:


> Well packard,
> 1. You worry way too much, or you have to much time on your hands
> 2. I have my ccw's permit whit my drivers license as , well, and there is a reason, *in the state of pa, if you should get pulled over, you better show that ccw permit with your license*, 1. It goes along way with the officer with you being an honest gun owner, and the appreciate that, especially if you have right by your side..
> 3. And when i carry whatever gun on my fobus holster i usually where a jersey, and im a yankees fan , so it will be a button down jersey, and usually you cant tell im carrying, and i do from time to time, put my hand on the butt of the gun just to make sure its secure, you obviously arent paying attention to people and seeing there point of view that maybe they dont want there gun falling out? You ever think of that? Cause this post is what i think and this is my opinion,* that you worry too much about other people, *do you look at everyone to see if there carrying? Cause i really think you do.. I almost can guarantee you do, dont get me wrong, im not talking down to you, please dont take this the wrong way, what you and everyone else need to do is worry about yourselves, and how you carry, or where you put your ccw's permit, but i cant stress it enough that if you give that to an officer with your drivers license how far that will go, so instead of worry about this and that, try to worry about how you want yourself to carry, cause its up to each person what they choose to do.. Cant make it any simplier .. But you make good points, *you just seem to worry too much about everyone else,* and if there is someone thinking of holding up a place or what have you, they might think twice if they know your carrying a gun, hope you have a great day, thanks for the thread ..
> 
> Rocknglock


I don't think he's worried about interactions with cops. Wyoming is a "No tell" state, but I always offer my permit to an officer if I get pulled over, which doesn't happen very often anyways. It does indeed go a long way to letting the officer know that when you rolled thru a stop sign at 6am, it wasn't because you're on your way to knock off a bank.

As far as worrying about other people, the only reason I deem it necessary to carry is BECAUSE I worry about other people. I don't carry because I'm worried about myself. I know I'm not the problem. Being VERY aware of other people tends to seem like someone is being paranoid... I call it prepared. It's the same way I drive. I'm not overly worried about MY driving, I'm worried about the idiot who isn't paying attention and can have a direct impact (no pun intended) on weather or not I make it home tonight. Same goes for shady looking chumps, they get more attention than the grandma with the shopping cart and 20 lb purse, even though she could probably fit a shotgun in her purse, she's less likely to jack a place than some scummy dressed meth head with his hands in his hoodies pockets on a sunny day.

It's called situational awareness, and it don't start when the guns come out.


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## MLB

I really liked Bisley's reasoned response and outlook. In general, no one knows when I am carrying. People new to it often nervously check to make sure "nothing's showing", ironically drawing attention to themselves, because few folks are out "looking" for it. They'll settle into it once the newness wears off I think.

That being said, I don't think I go to the extraordinary lengths to hide my ability to carry. I'll discuss it with anyone who asks (no one does), and while I don't flash the thing, I'm not hiding my permit from occasional view. It's nothing to be ashamed of, right?

More responsive to the OP though, I'd say the biggest mistake one can make is carrying a handgun without really thinking through if and when you are willing to use it. It's a personal decision that doesn't have one "correct" answer. They're easy to buy, hard to use for their intended purpose. If you bring a gun into a situation where you're not willing to shoot, you may find that your antagonist doesn't have the same reservations. Now you're dead instead of robbed.

Oh, and I'll second the "chase the laser" thing :mrgreen: That's bad too!


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## jeffegg2

I carry concealed. As it is a SR9c, it hides pretty well, but I don't really worry about it as Michigan is an open carry state. 
I conceal it but don't lose any sleep should it print.

If I was so paranoid, I would carry an LCP in the pocket.


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## RocKNGlockRob

Oh i agree, i do worry about other people, especially the way the economy is, people are robbing everyone, and here in pittsburgh, you cant even goto an atm at night, the get jacked, so the only person im worried about is my wife, and 2 daughters, and im not paraniod, but im always on guard, and when i eat at a resteraunt, im always facing the entrance, my wife learned that about me, and i give the place im at the complete layout, like exits, maybe where to duck down at, cause here in pittsburgh, we have so many homicides anymore, and my family isnt going to become a statistic, so thats why i like to face the door, and i usually have my back against the wall so i get a good view of all the shady people come in .. We set a record for murders this year and this is only may...and the economy the way it is people will do what they need to do, and whatever it takes to get what they want, example .. Money, prescriptions, ect. Anyway to steal to take care of there drug addiction, and latly here we have people breaking in during the afternoon at peoples houses, so im always prepared, and i love to carry my sig p220 45 cal. At home i have my tactical shotgun, and i have plenty of other guns. Glocks, springfied xds smith 7 wesson 38 airlite, and severy other guns, but i switch alot from my sig220 to my glock 23, and you just never know when something is going to take place.. So im always ready, not paranoid at all, but like you said, got to worry about our family and kids...



Rocknglock


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## RocKNGlockRob

Well junior, im not a big fan of the new rugers, i know the praise about the 380 cal. And the sr9, but i see alot of reviews that say there junk, trying to copy other guns,ect. But to each his own, and the ruger is one gun that is overly priced, and didnt do well at the range, i dont have one, so i rented one, not-impressed at all.. My wife has a bersa thunder 380, and that is a great gun for the money, and is dead accurate, so i would take my glock 23 or xd 40 cal. Or if im really going somewhere that i dont like i take the big one my beautiful sig saur p220 45 cal. The sig is awsome, no gun compares to it, i have like 13 guns, and my glock doesnt come close as far a good tight pattern .. And when the reviews i read say worse than good, and shooting it, nah il pass ..but if you want a good site to goto and order a subscription heres one for ya, and let me know what u think Gun Tests the consumer resource for the serious shooter. they test every gun, holster, shotguns, actualyl every gun, and they test them hard, but take a look at that site, you might like it, let me know

rocknglock


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## MLB

Rob, if things are as bad in Pittsburgh as you perceive, I'd leave. Being armed and generally aware is a big help, but if you're concerned enough to case the restaurant and look for cover wherever you go, the very best protection for your family is to keep them out of dangerous places to begin with.


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## ohioman

Hmmmm Oh gezzzz where to begin.lol
MLB i agree if so bad there but also u have to look at jobs if they can aford to move ect. im no expert matter a fact i dont even have ccw as yet plan to take my class this comeing month and get mine but to carry in my truck not so much on me my main concern is in my vehicles or at home and family. ty great idea with lic and permit i will use that. in ohio we can open carry but we all also know it makes law enforcement edgey as well as everyone around u tho legal why carry openly everywhere you go? you have more chance of gettin killed falling in your bathroom than walkin into a gun fight when you stop and get gas or go out to eat is your bathroom walls floors paded all your cabinets sink corners wraped with pads ccw same in my oppion your most likely to have trouble in your vehicle or and mostly at home ohio law castle law allows that you can protect yourself in your veihcle and your home with deadly force not on the streets or in public areasthat will be up to invistgation to decide weather your going to pen or not. someone breaks in your home unarmed you have right to shoot nothing by law can happen to you adleast here bottom line im not going out looking for agun fight last thing i want is that only right to defend me and mine as for others carrying great i could care less weather known or not long as your not putting me in a dangerous sisuation cause your out lookin for a gunfight.


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## Packard

New York law has your vehicle as simple property and cannot be protected like a home. (Your dog and your cat are also simple property and you cannot protect them with your weapon either.) This sounds like more of a problem than it is.

For example if someone attacks your dog you simply say that you tried to intervene but the bad guy then attacked you and you were forced to defend yourself.

Or the guy was breaking into your car. "I yelled at him to stop but then he turned and came at me with a screwdriver (or some other implement) and I was forced to defend myself."

The idiosyncrasies of NY deadly force laws are enough to drive you crazy.


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## OldCurlyWolf

AirForceShooter said:


> I have a CCW. I don't care who knows.
> I carry a gun concealed, I don't care who knows.
> I have guns in my house, I don't care who knows.
> 
> Different strokes
> 
> AFS


Personally, I like other people to know as little about me as possible in a lot of situations. That is one of them. I have found it makes a thinking person more careful and the other kind, well it gives me the element of surprise and ambush is an available option.


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## Packard

OldCurlyWolf said:


> Personally, I like other people to know as little about me as possible in a lot of situations. That is one of them. I have found it makes a thinking person more careful and the other kind, well it gives me the element of surprise and ambush is an available option.


I had a friend that used to work for "the Government" and he would never be more specific than that. (I made some educated guesses, however.)

He said, "A back up gun is one more gun than the other guy thinks you have. So if you are a little old lady, a gun in your purse is sufficient to be a back up. But if you are a cop, then everyone knows you have a service weapon and a back up weapon, so you need to have one more [3 total] to have a back up on you."

So if you let people know that you have a weapon, then you need a back up piece. If you look a bit rough around the edges and people might assume that you are armed anyway, then you need the third piece.

If you seem innocuous, and you don't show the weapon, then you only need one weapon.

In any case, I agree: Hiding the fact that you are armed is a good strategic move.


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## jimnollet

*I guess this depends on where you live*



AirForceShooter said:


> I have a CCW. I don't care who knows.
> I carry a gun concealed, I don't care who knows.
> I have guns in my house, I don't care who knows.
> 
> Different strokes
> 
> AFS


I really guess then it depends on where you live, letting everyone know in somewhere like Detroit WILL get you killed, guaranteed, 100% dead. You will be targeted, you will be shot and your gun will be taken away, This sir is a fact.
Some people have a CCW for the 2nd amendment rights, some have it as a method of personal protection. You must not live in a big city. Letting people know you carry will only get you killed, and hopefully they don't smack you up and use your own gun against you first. This is not meant as a personal insult or attack, but as a reality in the big city, your house would have been robbed already, heck they might cart the entire gun safe away, like I said, I guess it depends on where you live.
I don't care how much (training) you have, when your up against professional criminals and outright REAL badass people who just don't give a f_ck, and you already let them know you have guns, your at a disadvantage, I just think in the city, you don't want to be known period. better walk softly and carry a big stick....

To Clarify: I think many great examples were given above why you don't even tell all your friends that you are carrying because we are not policeman and you don't want people looking at you as the protector, you don't want friends mentioning to friends (who mentioning it to their friends and so on) that you carry guns on you, that's when it can get really scary. If you work or work and live in the city that can come and bite you in the butt in many not so good ways. I can see a 100 real life scenarios in the city that will bit you in the butt. If you want to tell everyone in the building you carry in SO MANY places in Detroit, you will be robbed of your gun, plain and simple. Their are people bad enough to do it.

Its kinda like many times you see a white guy get killed in Detroit, its normally a some guy from the suburbs who goes to the city trying to act tough. Ya I am a white guy, who is from Detroit who now live in the burbs but is in Detroit every other day with my work


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## rex

#1, Most people don't know what one looks like because ours are similar to the DL,and most sheeple are oblivious to their surroundings.

#2, I've always worn loose fitting shirts because I hate to feel strangled by clothes,and sheeple again.

#3, Not the wisest thing to do.

2 mistakes I think are at the forefront:

1. People with little or no firearm experience get a gun for SD and carry it.They have not ingrained proper handling and use without mentioning tactics and mindset.

2.Not knowing the legal aspects.Taking a CCW class gives you enough information to be dangerous.Alot of the instructors,cops,friends,etc. don't know the law or you'll get partial/skewed replies.

FHP is back on the 3-move rule here,but it NEVER existed.There's a lawsuit going on now where an idiot cop freaked over the peak of a concealed pistol,was freaked out on and cussed out unprofessionally,and arrested.

You have to study the law,I correct people all the time with what current case law supports.If I don't know I look it up and go to people that know the law to clear up any questions.There are carry forums that cover probably every state,and there are lawyers and those that work with lawmakers at those places that know the law and current interpretation.Just because you didn't break the law doesn't mean you won't be cuffed and stuffed with the entailing expenses,and in some instances there is no recourse.


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## Glock Doctor

Pittsburgh is one of the most aesthetically designed and well laid out cities I have ever visited. The views from the hi-rise buildings, and Mount Washington are spectacular - I mean, 'What' with the intertwining rivers and numerous latticework iron bridges! Still, I have to agree Pittsburgh can be a dangerous place to walk around in after dark. 

As for open carry? I rarely ever let anyone see that I'm, 'armed to the teeth'. Why? It's not just for reasons of personal security; and, yes, I'll admit that I'm nobody's, 'sheepdog'. The real reason, 'Why' I keep my gun to myself is because I am, by nature, inherently polite and deferential. I'm not the kind of person who thinks only of himself; nor, do I think it proper to alarm other people with my own ideas of strong Second Amendment support. If I were to personally advertise my pro-gun sentiments then I'd wear a T-shirt rather than an exposed firearm. 

In this violent day and age I don't think civilian families need to be reminded that many of us, 'go armed' among them. Rather, I'd prefer to let people eat their meals and shop in peace. My personal attitude about civilian open carry inside an urban environment is no different than what I think about young men who publicly greet each other and talk to women while openly squeezing their crotches for emphasis. Anything seems to go in today's world; but, not everything is either polite, respectful of others, or indicative of personal mental balance. 

When it comes to wearing loose or oversized clothing I've been successfully able to combine my collection of authentic Hawaiian aloha shirts with the fact that I carry a, 'full belt-load' underneath the open, unbloused hems of all these shirts. In the past 30 days I've had several well-meaning women walk up to me, grab a piece of fabric, or brush one of my oversized, heavily patterned shirts and compliment me on the style and fabric. In fact it happened again yesterday while I was shopping at the local Williams Sonoma store. (A woman stopped to compliment me; and, wow, did she ever really know her collectable Hawaiian shirts; but, after looking me over real good, she never figured out that I was, also, heavily armed!) 

NOT true of the parking lot, though. When I got out of the car to go into the W-S store, I inadvertently showed the pistol when I stood up. (It was at 2:00 o'clock.) The, 'military type' young man who saw the piece suddenly froze in his tracks and looked me over from head to foot. When I smiled at him and winked, he visibly relaxed, turned around, and walked away; but, for a moment there, he looked almost enraged! This event reinforced my strong personal opinion that civilian open carry is never a good idea (unless, of course, you're in someplace like Tucson, AZ and wearing cowboy boots). :mrgreen: 

There are certain rules that should be followed whenever you want to keep your EDC concealed: 

(1) Always bend forward with the knee on your weapon side; and, twist your strong shoulder slightly forward at the same time when you do. 

(2) Always reach upward with the arm opposite your weapon side; and, once again, slightly twist your extended shoulder into the reach. 

(3) Always place your arms underneath the outstretched arms of anyone who wants to hug you. 

(4) Always crook your arm over your pistol whenever you walk into the wind; or else slightly tuck your gun hand into your pocket. 

(5) Always walk up to or talk with other people from just off their vertical body centerline – more or less at a 3/4 angle – preferably with your weapon side kept away from them. (It's called, 'blading' the subject.)  

(6) Don't sit with your back to the audience. (as at a bar or a lunch counter) 

(7) Don’t stand with your back to the audience, either. Whenever you stand on line, step to your weapon side and slightly out of the line in order not to present your weapon to the person standing immediately behind you. 

(8) And, most important of all, always remember to smile a lot, and to carry your shoulders in a relaxed fashion. If you don’t, ‘look armed’ people will assume that you’re not. 

(9) Rather than do something stupid, like a spontaneous or uncalled for, 'weapon check', make sure to always use a proper gun belt AND holster. 

(10) Carry at least one extra magazine (or reload), AND a cell phone with an internal camera! Oftentimes a cell phone and camera will, 'save the day' for you much better than a pistol ever might. (Think how much easier George Zimmerman's life might have been IF he'd used a small video-cam in order to record Trayvon Martin's antisocial behaviors that night rather than to attempt to keep him under close surveillance!) :smt086


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## rex

There's some good info there.


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## fast20

BigDog1135 said:


> :watching:


my laugh of the day.... thanks bigdog


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## Cait43

While I do not broadcast that I carry, personally I do not concern myself if someone "makes" me.....


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## TAPnRACK

The OP forgot...

Remember to never let anyone see you buy ammo... this will indicate you have a gun, and may make you a potential target. Nothing says "gun owner" like buying ammo.

When leaving the range (driving), double back a few times checking for someone following... people leaving the range most likely will have guns. Why risk being followed. Try wearing a disguise going to & from the range. Fake glasses w/nose & mustache work well.

Order gun magazines/books through the mail, if you buy one at a store someone may see you and come to the conclusion you have or will soon have a firearm of some kind. 

If you order parts or magazines through the mail, use a P.O. box... the mailman or UPS guy may tell others of your delivery and you'll become a potential target once again. 

Never post about your gun expriences online... someone could hack into your computer and find out you carry a gun and have an arsenal at home (darn, already broke that rule).





*I'm joking, boy you guys came up with a lot of rules... but I guess you can never be too careful... lol.


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## rex

Good one :anim_lol:


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## Stengun

Howdy,



Cait43 said:


> While I do not broadcast that I carry, personally I do not concern myself if someone "makes" me.....


+1!

Who gives a hamster's butt if someone realize I'm packin' heat.

I've been carrying for over 31 years ( I'm 49yo.....do the math ) and no one has ever "outed" me while I was CCW.

Paul

P.S. I don't carry a gun for personal protection, I carry a gun because I can.

P.S.S. And because there are people like George Zimmerman in this world.


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