# HK MP5 vs AR-15 for home defense



## GCBHM

Many people use an AR-15 for a home defense weapon. I would be one of these. My home defense system include the AR, several pistols, and a shotgun in different rooms. Each room would have either an AR/shotgun backed up witha pistol. But recently I started thinking about the AR pistol. A buddy of mine recently bought one of these, and it is a rather neat concept. This got me to thinking back to a staple that seems to have lost all notariety; the vaunted MP5. I wonder if the MP5 would be better suited than the AR for home defense. Thoughts? 

Now, before someone starts in with the "the best weapon for home defense is a pump shotgun" routine, save it. Stay on point with the comparison of an AR to the MP5 for home defense, please.


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## Smitty79

An MP5 shoots 9mm. Unless it shoots them a whole lot faster than a pistol, it's just a pistol that is a little easier to shoot accurately and a little less maneuverable in tight places.


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## GCBHM

Right, just the same as a shotgun. In fact, I would think that a MP5 would be easier to manage than a shotgun, plus it gives you 30 rounds without having to reload.


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## Smitty79

As far as I know, the ballistic performance of a 9mm out of an MP5 is not much better than from a Glock. How many MP5s do you see modern SWAT teams carry? Every recent picture I've seen of SWAT and all the SWAT guys I've seen at the range have shotguns or AR's. A pistol caliber carbine is a "range toy". I have one, it's fun to shoot. For defense, they put you in never never land. You are better off with a pistol or a low power carbine (5.56, 7.62X39, 5.45X39...) They have the same magazine size as an MP5 and more stopping power.

The MP5 might be great for a suppressed set up. I think 300 Blackout has taken over that niche.


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## denner

MP5 | Navy SEALs

"The SEALs primarily use the MP5 for Counterterrorism, Close Quarters Combat, hostage rescue, and personal protection operations."

I disagree with Smitty in that a MP5 is just a range toy, albeit I don't know who may have an automatic MP5 for home defense unless you're licensed to own one. 800 rounds per minute, exceptionally accurate' light weight and very maneuverable. it's been doing an excellent job since the early 1960's and still very much in use today. Unlike pistols the MP5 would be loaded with machine gun grade 9mm. And contrary to some a very effective tool for close quarter operations. I have no doubt a MP5 can take out bad guys in a room quickly and with exceptional accuracy and control. I know I wouldn't want to go up against one in close quarters.


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## TAPnRACK

Sig's new MPX in 9mm is a modern take on the MP5 and would be a good alternative to a AR-15.


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## GCBHM

I agree, Denner. I think you make excellent points.


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## GCBHM

Smitty, no disrespect at all, but a 9mm is a 9mm. Stopping power is psychological unless you hit the pea or heart. Chances are, if someone breaks in at night while you're at home, if they even hear you at all, they're gone. Otherwise, the Columbians sent their hit men to the wrong house, and you ain't gon'make it. I think the MP5 is quite a formidable weapon for CQC. Of course, for the civilian market, unless you have a Class III, it's a semi-auto, but if you're going to use a shotgun or an AR, why not an MP5? If you're going to use a Glock 17 or another 9mm, why not the MP5? It just seems to make sense.


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## CPAwithaGun

Sorry kind of off topic question what is machine gun grade 9mm? I have a Colt AR Sporter in 9mm. thanks.


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## rustygun

I would think the real advantage of a mp5 would be using it in full auto. If you are comparing a semi-auto 9mm to a .223 semi-auto I would say the .223 would be the better choice. Nothing against 9mm but the .223 is far more devastating.


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## TAPnRACK

Far more penetration too... which could be a bad thing in certain situations.


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## GCBHM

CPAwithaGun said:


> Sorry kind of off topic question what is machine gun grade 9mm? I have a Colt AR Sporter in 9mm. thanks.


I don't follow your question.


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## GCBHM

TAPnRACK said:


> Far more penetration too... which could be a bad thing in certain situations.


Well, exactly. Talking about home defense here, not battlefield. Sure, rustygun, a machine gun would seem to be more advantageous, but is it really in a home defense situation? If you train with a semi-auto, you can put a lot of rounds down range in a hurry, and also not have to be as concerned with over penetration.


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## VAMarine

Just to clarify, exactly try what kind of MP5 are we talking about? A MP5 pistol runs about $3k

In talking with several guys that have ran MP5s in the past a shirt barreled AR beats them hands down. 

If i lived in a NFA friendly state I would not hesitate to run a 10.5" AR rifle or as I live in Iowa which is non NFA friendly I would run (and have been looking to acquire) a 10.5" AR pistol.


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## VAMarine

If you're actually looking for a select fore MP5, you're probably looking anywhere north of $8k and a butt-ton of paperwork.


The AR pistol is the better solution.


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## denner

CPAwithaGun said:


> Sorry kind of off topic question what is machine gun grade 9mm? I have a Colt AR Sporter in 9mm. thanks.


9MM IMI +P+ Sub-Machine Gun Ammunition is made for submachine guns and thus is a very high pressured round generally not suitable for most pistols especially with any sort of high round count. Where the MP5 and their 9mm ilk shine is that they are very compact, light, very mild recoiling, and exceptionally accurate while delivering short bursts or even sustained full auto bursts. If you receive one,three, four, or twenty 9mm rounds between the eyes it doesn't matter whether you are hit with 556. 762x39 or 762x54, or even a grenade launcher.


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## desertman

GCBHM:
My opinion on the AR pistol is that it's too big for a pistol and too short for a rifle. Why not just have the carbine version? The MP5? Other than just having one for the hell of it. You're better off with a 9mm pistol with a high capacity magazine. I have a Glock G26 with a 50 round drum and a G30 w/27 round stick mag. I can carry the guns on my hip with their standard magazines and keep the high capacity ones loaded and accessible. I just don't see the logic in having a pistol caliber in a rifle size gun even a carbine. It's okay for a submachine gun as that was their intended purpose, but how many of us has one of those? I wouldn't want to "spray and pray" anyway, that's just reckless and irresponsible. I have a MAC 10 .45 ACP, bought it because it was sinister looking, way too cumbersome as a pistol, as it's intention was a "spray and pray" SMG. I doubt that I will ever even fire it. I also have a Henry "Mare's Leg" .45 LC I wouldn't consider it sinister looking but it is cool as hell. Depending on where you live, I would not recommend any rifle caliber for home defense.



> My home defense system include the AR, several pistols, and a shotgun in different rooms.


I also wouldn't advise leaving several guns around in different rooms as someone could get ahold of one them while you're in a different area of the home, outside or while you're sound asleep. You could be preoccupied out in your garage, basement, backyard talking to a neighbor etc. while someone could be entering your house without your knowledge. Don't think it could happen? Believe me it can. When we had our home up for sale I was in the yard talking to one of my neighbors when another neighbor came running over and told me that some women had just entered my home. Turned out she was a realtor, but what if she wasn't? I'm just glad I didn't have any guns laying around while she did a "walk through". If my other neighbor hadn't seen her God only knows how long she could have been our house. If you're like most people I doubt if you lock all your doors while you are at home or in the yard. If you're going to have a weapon for self defense either at home or on the streets the best place is to have it on your person at all times and within easy reach while you are sleeping.


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## Smitty79

The optimum home defense carbine, without going NFA, is a 14.5" barrel AR with a pinned flash hider. There is a discussion of SEALs using MP5s on ar15.com. The crux of it is, they don't. 5.56 has better ballistic performance than any kind of 9mm. If you want a subsonic suppressed rifle, use 300 blackout. I've also read that 5.56 is no more of an over penetration problem than 9mm. Hence the reason cops don't use MP5's anymore.

Submachineguns became near obsolete with the advent of practical assault rifles. An MP5 is a wonderful piece of machinery. So is a P51 Mustang. Both have been surpassed as front line defensive or combat weapons.

I have a 9mm carbine. I would use it for self defense if I had nothing better. If I had room to maneuver and didn't have a rifle caliber carbine, I'd use it over my pistols. But mainly it's for doing rifle type action shooting on ranges that don't allow my AR's.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity iconoclast. 1911's were the best combat pistol in the world for 70 years. Now, they are, at best, a niche gun if truly a combat gun at all. If I must take a 45 to war, please make it a double stack. As an homage to JMB, my next firearm purchase will be a 1911. Everyone should have one for the pure joy of it.


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## GCBHM

desertman, in order to get my weapons, they have to know where they are. Granted, they could get lucky, but what are the odds? They won't be thinking of getting my weapons. If they are thinking that, I'm in more trouble than the common thief. I'm dealing with an assassin squad which would probably snip me before I could even wake up. I'm being more realistic in that the typical situation most of us will ever face.


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## GCBHM

Granted the MP5 is expensive, but so is any professional grade weapon, like an HK 417, etc. For most of us, a pistol should suffice for just about any home defense scenario. It was an interesting thought process.


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## VAMarine

An MR 556 or MR 762 (you can't get a 416 or 417) will be half the cost of an MP5.


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## GCBHM

A class III can't get a fully auto HK 417? Either way, I really don't think it matters btwn the two. Granted, the .556 is a far more devastating round than the 9mm. No real comparison to mention, but when it comes to what we can expect to face for home defense, either would do. I have the AR and a 9mm, which is really overkill. But it's better to have it and not need it.


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## VAMarine

GCBHM said:


> A class III can't get a fully auto HK 417? Either way, I really don't think it matters btwn the two. Granted, the .556 is a far more devastating round than the 9mm. No real comparison to mention, but when it comes to what we can expect to face for home defense, either would do. I have the AR and a 9mm, which is really overkill. But it's better to have it and not need it.


You can't get anything select fire made after the early 80's, a class III dealer can, LE can, and .Mil can. But average Joe Blow can not. So yeah, if you are a class III dealer you can get one as "Dealer Sample"

HK does not export the 416 and 417 for civilian sale due to German restrictions on arms trade. The MR556 and MR762 are what's available for us regular folk. Those are the semi-auto variants with a few subtle differences than their previously mentioned counterparts.

As for the AR pistol, where I live it makes a nice option for compact higher fire power piece and can actually be pretty much deployed as a carbine.

This is the model I've been looking at:

*P516 10" Pistol with SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace

*But if you want to shoot THROUGH the wall, they have it in 7.62X51 as well.

*http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx*


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## GCBHM

I would take the 516 over the 716, although both are nice looking weapons. I really have no use for a fully auto as I sit, and I do not anticipate going anywhere where one is needed. I really like the idea of the 10" carbine, although I think my little M&P15 sport is more than enough for me. With my Glock 17 and HK VP9, I think I am more than adequately armed for a proper defense. I would have to be under pretty heavy fire to whip out the AR or shotgun.


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## rustygun

I like that stabilizing brace. I would have strong urge to buy two though. One for each arm.


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