# Advise Against



## T-Rizz (Nov 4, 2009)

Hello All,

I dont want this to be another "first time gun buyer" thread.. even tho thats exactly what it is.

I've spent the time to research and read thru many of these previous threads and they all have helpful advice.
What I've learned so far is... In order to buy the right gun for you, start with

A) How it feels in your hand
B) How if feels when you actually shoot it at the range (important to test first)
C) A trusted brand for reliability, service, etc

Most of these threads are people asking for what they _should_ get. What I'm asking is what is a particular gun, brand, caliber, etc that a first time gun owner should _avoid_.

I am 6'5" so I have large hands, but I also have a girlfriend that stays at my house frequently and want her to feel comfortable operating the weapon (after sufficient range time and gun safety/operation courses of course).

I started looking at reliable revolvers. Particularity S&W model 60 .357, but i am quite fond of the model 686 7 shot .357 on how it feels in my hand. What I was surprised to find was how revlovers seem to be more expensive than a semiauto pistol. The S&W I was referring to I was finding in the high 6's to mid $700 whereas a semiauto Ruger 9mm and .45's in the mid to low 500's as well as a S&W.40ve in the mid $400's. Am I missing something here? I figured the more moving parts of a semi would raise the price.

I dont really have a budget here because I dont want save money on a potential life saving weapon, but I dont want to throw around money on frivolous features either. Whether that be a revolver or a semiauto.

Ok I'm going to stop the rambeling now and just ask.... am I on the right page? I'm not looking so much for a gun suggestion (but wouldnt mind one if you felt so inclinded to offer), but more to hear suggestions of brands, calibers etc _not to purchase_ for home protection, not for travel or conceilment, and fun practice time on the range.

Thanks!:smt1099


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## gunluver (Jul 23, 2009)

You seem to be on the right track with your research. You are looking at all stainless revolvers vs. polymer semi-autos. there is where your price difference is. Look at a Kimber stainless .45 and you'll see a price that "justifies" the prices of the revolvers you are looking at.
I wont steer you away from anything....but I will tell you that there is nothing wrong with a good revolver. I own 2 myself and carry one most of the time.


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## agoetz2005 (Oct 19, 2009)

I do not now, and have never owned a Ruger Semiauto. I probably will never either. I've heard and seen too many horror stories about bad fit/finish, bad accuracy, and bad reliability.

You're on the right track, especially with the revolver idea with a girlfriend in the house. A S&W as a starter revolver would be a good idea. As would a Ruger Security six, GO-100, or Blackhawk. I think thered a Redhawk too.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

The GP100 is about the best buy for the money you spend. But if you want to see possible resale value down the road a Smith would be the way to go. They just hold value better. The GP100 don't really go down in value. They just don't seem to ever rise. And a Smith can in many instances over time. I have had a couple semi auto Rugers over the years. Mostly 22's though. I did have a P94 .40 for a while. It was a little chunky feeling to me but it did shoot pretty well.


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

While I like my pistols, I am not a huge revolver fan. But the Ruger GP100 was an exception.
IMHO a very well built revolver at a good price. As a 357 it also gives the option of being able to shoot the 38 Special, so you kinda get two guns at the price of one.

For the pistols, keep ammo prices in mind. Prices vary from state to state. But generally speaking 9mm is the cheapest in price you can get next to 22lr.
You can get +P and +P+ Defensive rounds that are comparable to 40SW in power and will expand to 45 caliber diameters. 
This is a good thing to know and keep in mind when gun shopping. You can buy cheep range rounds for practice and carry the good stuff. Just remember that what ever you settle on as your carry ammo, to run at least 100 rounds of it through your pistol with out any failures before actually using it for carry. Nothing better than having that new gun loaded with ammo it don't like, a bad situation gets worse real fast when that happens.

While big brand guns are great. there are some great brands that are seldom heard. fortunately this forum has a subsection for one of those brands and I recommend it's consideration. I can't say enough good things about this brand and its very reasonable pricing.
The brand is Bersa, check my posts in that section or this link can give you some history on them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bersa

I would recommend avoiding Taurus, some here will not agree with me on this, but I speak from personal experience. I bought two NIB (New In Box) guns from them.
One gun I had to send in for repairs before I ever had a chance to shoot it. The other dropped a frame screw at the range while I was shooting it?!?! and I had to send it back.
At one point both of the pistols were out at the same time leaving me without either of my pistols. 100.00 in shipping and insurance to get the guns back to the factory, and 5 weeks turn around for each pistol so 10 weeks out on two NEW guns. Once the guns were back I sold them back to the ffl I bought them from at a loss. So money out in shipping, crappy service time and lost money on resale. Not to mention the frame screw falling out while I was shooting it. Some say that their quality has improved since then but I will never recommend them because of how much money I lost due to their gross neglect quality control.


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## agoetz2005 (Oct 19, 2009)

+1 on taurus

Nasty stuff. I tried shooting one of their PT1911's, and the magazine fell out on the 5th round

on THREE separate occasions.


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## T-Rizz (Nov 4, 2009)

Thank you all for you great suggestions and advice. I appreciate it and am taking it all into consideration in my further research before my first big purchase. :supz:

The Ruger GP100 looks great! (and I dont mean based on appearance. On specs, reviews, and price).

Out of the 1,000s of choices I think I've narrowed my search down to:

Revolvers

S&W 686 7 shot .357
Ruger GP 100 .357

Semi-auto Pistols

Springfield .40XDM (I went to a local store yesterday and held it and it fits like a glove). The salesman wasnt hard selling me on any particular model, but he did have high praise for this particular model (Do yall feel the same way for my purposes?)

Glock 21 .45 (I understand this calliber may be too much for a first time gun owner, especially if I am going to take my girlfriend to the range to get comfrotable with it. If things get serious down the line we will get her her own gun so thats a different story and I dont want to base _my_ personal defense weapon choice on that. Also I understand that ammo will cost more)

I suppose my next step is to decide on revolver vs semi-auto which will take the decision from 4 down to 2.

Any further opinions/suggestions/warnings on my thought process?

Thanks again

T-Rizz


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Welcome to the forum - I think You'll like it here.

Depending on the money you want to spend S&W is having a heck of a sale on their Sigma series.

For the next month or so they are offering their Sigma 9 mm and .40 cal for sale at $299 minus a $50 mail in rebate = $249.

Hard gun to pass up.



It has a very long firm trigger pull, some people like that - I don't - so I mailed mine back to them (they paid shipping both ways) for a free trigger job.

I got it back and it is much better now.

The gun feels really great in you hand and has a lifetime warranty.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The GP-100 is a great gun to start out with. So is a 686, just more expensive.

And the XD series is also a great 1st semi-auto, although I would prefer a 9mm to a .40 S&W. There's not a thing wrong with .40, but 9mm is cheaper to practice with, a powderpuff to shoot with practice ammo, and is almost as hot as a .40 when loaded hot for self-defense purposes. The XD has a long trigger pull, but not bad when new, and it gets pretty sweet in about 1000 rounds. I have it in .45 ACP and it is a great gun.

The Glock is another good and reliable handgun in any caliber, and you shouldn't worry about recoil that much with .45 ACP. It will probably be more pleasant to shoot than the .40 S&W, because it is a low pressure chambering that results more in a hard but fairly gentle push, whereas the .40 can be a bit snappy and have a tendency to muzzle flip with some lightweight guns.


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## gunluver (Jul 23, 2009)

You can't go wrong with either the XD or the Glock. I own a Glock 19 (9mm) and a XD45. Both are a dream to shoot and both function flawlessly. I just prefer the Glock 19 due to it fitting my hand better and i like the trigger better.

The Ruger GP-100 is on my short list of next guns I will buy. You can't beat the value of them, and they are built like a tank. Plus you get to shoot cheaper .38 rounds through it as well as .357. I personally have had no dealings with the Smith you are referring to, so can't help you there.

I agree with Bisley, don't worry about recoil on a .45 it is more of a push compared to the snappiness of the .40


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

If you are going to go with 40 SW, keep in mind that 40 cal ammo costs an arm and a leg. If you are set on 40 cal you might try getting a pistol that you can get a 9mm conversion barrel and mags so you can shoot 9mm and save BIG money on ammo cost. Many people buy 40cal because they read that it is the minimum caliber size for proper knock down bla bla bla. which is all hype, 40 has some punch but the truth is, more people have died from the 22lr than have 40sw.
If you get a 40 that you can get a conversion kit to 9mm for and you discover that 40 ammo cost is to prohibitive you can just switch barrels, Otherwise you find your self selling your gun at a loss and buying a new one, and out a few hundred dollars maybe.

Think about it. Many of us have already been around the block where this is concerned and sold nearly new guns over it.
9mm is a good round and as I said you can get +P and +P+ defensive rounds for CCW.

Just my .02 cents.


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## T-Rizz (Nov 4, 2009)

Freedom1911 said:


> Just my .02 cents.


I appreciate all cents. and sense for that matter :yawinkle:

Ok rank these (Springfield XDM 9mm, XDM .40, XD .45ACP) in order for each category: (ammo cost/ammo availability, best for home defense, and personal preference)


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## chris441 (Sep 6, 2009)

T-Rizz said:


> I appreciate all cents. and sense for that matter :yawinkle:
> 
> Ok rank these (Springfield XDM 9mm, XDM .40, XD .45ACP) in order for each category: (ammo cost/ammo availability, best for home defense, and personal preference)


thats a tough rate, just depends on how much you plan to practice and if the ammo cost matters to you. I bought XD9 from Buds online for $419 shipped. I think if your primary purpose is self defense then I wouldn't spend the extra money on the XDM. I shot the XD 40 and thought it was great to....if you ever plan to carry though I feel the XDs are too big. I ended up buy a Walter PPS as a carry after I tried carrying my XD for awhile.

Where in ATL are you? I am in Alpharetta and Bullseye Marksmen in Cumming has all of your listed above guns in their rental case so you can give them all a try.


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## T-Rizz (Nov 4, 2009)

I just got back from the range and shot 50 rounds with the xd 40 and 50 with the xd 45. I really liked them both and didnt notice an overwhelming difference at all. The stainless steel .40 was $649 whereas the all black polymer .45 was $549. For $100 less, even tho the .45 ammo is a little more costly than .40, why not go with a superior caliber if they both feel really good in the hand and really good on the range. Thoughts?


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

Superior caliber is relative to ones needs not the size of the rounds.
Having said that. Ammo prices in my area make shooting 40 and 45 prohibitive.
If ammo prices in T-Rizzs area are more reasonable, then shooting 40 or 45 may be more to his liking.
I still contend that 9mm is more than sufficient as a defensive round if you purchase the proper round for carry, and this leaves you the ability to buy inexpensive range rounds for practice.

As for the XD 45 is a great gun, Very accurate with minimal recoil, much like my 1911. Again, ammo costs prompted me to sell it, 21.00 for 1 box of 45 will buy two boxes of 9mm here in Saint Louis.

I have no experience with the XDm 40SW, though I have read that it is a good gun.

XDm 9mm, very accurate, very little recoil, fast target acquisition after shot, 19+1 capacity, looks cool, Ok that doesn't count, does look cool though.
faster brake down/field strip than the XD, it does not require pulling the trigger to get the slide off. Should be the same for the XDm 40SW.

Note, the mags between the 9mm XD and XDm are not interchangeable, I would think this is also true of the 40SW. 

All I can do is remind you that caliber size is not what is important. It is being able to hit what your shooting at. 40SW and 45acp both cost considerably more than 9mm. 9mm gets you more ammo for your dollar which means more range time behind your new gun. There by more time to practice proper procedure, hopefully making a more accurate and safe you when and if the time comes to defend your self.

Let us know what you get. They are all good guns.:smt1099


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I would go for the XD45, hands down, given those options...unless the ammo cost is gonna keep you from practicing properly. Practice ammo for the .45 is almost double that of 9mm (at Walmart, Winchester white box, Remington UMC, etc.), but if you can afford it, and you are OK with the extra recoil, the .45 is a heck of a lot more fun, and is a superior self-defense chambering.


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