# What minimum age for Concealed Carry of a firearm?



## cclaxton

What should be the minimum age that our society should allow concealed carry of a firearm?
Let's agree that if you are serving in the military or LE, you would be exempt from the minimum age requirement. 
Just trying to see what this forum thinks about the minimum age for CCP?
Thanks,


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

assuming that the concealed firearm is a pistol, 21..... old enough to buy it, old enough to carry it.


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## VAMarine

This is a tricky question...

In some states it is legal to possess a handgun at 18, and even carry it openly in some states where to carry concealed the age is 21, Pennsylvania is one such state. Looking at the whole of the 18-20 age group across the county I do not think they are responsible enough to be trusted with carrying arms, that is my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it. 

However, there are a few that may be responsible enough. Now before anyone goes into the "An 18 year old can be issued a rifle and die fro their country. blah blah blah, let me say that during my time in service I came into contact with 18year old Marines that I would not trust with a sharp stick let alone a concealed handgun off post. These same 18 yr olds that may die for their country aren't trusted to keep weapons in the barracks, not even a good size knife. Heck, we weren't even trusted enough to be able to keep glass bottles of orange juice in our rooms. So no, Military service alone does not in my eyes make on responsible to carry a firearm off post.

But I do think that if an 18 year old desires to carry a firearm, there should be a vetting process to screen and allow it in some cases. What would that process entail? Beats the hell out of me...


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## cclaxton

VAMarine,
Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about the 18yo marines, but I didn't want the poll to be affected by the exceptions which are debatable. 

The poll was really intended to be more general without taking into account all the governmental or Constitutional factors. This data also plays into the College Carry debate that is going on across the U.S.

Good posting. Thanks.


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## SMann

cclaxton said:


> This data also plays into the College Carry debate that is going on across the U.S.


How's that? Seems like two different subjects to me.


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## VAMarine

SMann said:


> How's that? Seems like two different subjects to me.


One of the reasons that people fret about college carry is the age/maturity level of early college students in their late teens/early 20's...to be continued.


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## Packard

My problem is I still remember what an irresponsible moron I was at 18. Even at 21. And I was not alone.

I wouldn't even venture to make a guess at what was the best age to allow guns. ("Best" as in best for the individual and society.)

I certainly would not have liked me to have a gun at 18. Not only was I irresponsible (though I did remember to zip my fly), but I was also a hot head.

A few years start to mellow out people.

So the characteristics that make a good soldier (fearlessness, brashness, gung-ho-ness) are probably not the same ones that you would want for carry concealed. But how do you deny a soldier the rights that older non-soldiers enjoy?

When I was 18 I certainly felt that I should be able to own a gun and carry it concealed, after all I was an excellent marksman. From a vantage of experience I would say that I would not have been ready at that age.


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## Steve M1911A1

I voted for "24 years old or older."
However, I wish it be known that I do not believe in "one size fits all" laws.
Were I running the zoo, my law would require a practical-applications test that would attempt to discern the social and emotional maturity of the applicant.
Any applicant of any age, starting at 18 years old, who could satisfactorily pass the test would be handed a permit to own, use, and conceal a firearm.
Any applicant _of any age_ who could not satisfactorily pass the test would be forbidden _all_ firearms until he or she passed a re-try.


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## Ala Tom

My understanding is that the male mind does not fully mature with full cognitive and social awareness until the late 20's or early 30's. This was true for me and my two sons. I voted for 24 but would hope it would be an open consideration by whomever is issuing the license.

I must add that, at 68, I do not see any reason I should carry concealed though I have the permit. If I had to walk through gang warfare or a place where everybody gets mugged or murdered, I'd find a different place to walk. (I got the CC so I could drive with guns and ammo to a range.)


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## Steve M1911A1

Ala Tom said:


> ...I do not see any reason I should carry concealed...


Wow! I wish that I had your prescience!
If I could accurately foretell when and where life-threatening problems would occur, I, too, would not need to carry a concealed weapon.
But since I do not possess your clairvoyance, I carry my pistol 24/7.

Interesting: I've only needed it once. But I didn't know that in advance.


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## kg333

I voted for 18 and up. I'd like to see more consistency in the "coming of age" laws, and currently military service and voting are at 18, which I consider two of the most important privileges/responsibilities granted. However, I wouldn't be against moving all of those back to 21, either.

To be honest, it bothers me a bit to see several older members of the board willing to push CCW so far back. If I might ask, do you hold similar opinions on voting, alcohol, and military service age limits? 

KG


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## Steve M1911A1

kg333 said:


> ...To be honest, it bothers me a bit to see several older members of the board willing to push CCW so far back. If I might ask, do you hold similar opinions on voting, alcohol, and military service age limits?
> 
> KG


In a word, "yes."

Please re-read my previous post. The same sort of test could apply to our other civic "virtues."

(Fools who are _over_ 18 would also be restricted. In the case of voting, I would also restrict dole suckers of any age.)


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## cclaxton

For the record, I am the author of this poll and I voted for 21 years old as the minimum for CC Permit. The Median of the Maturity Bell Curve seems to be close to 21...there is no major political movement to change the legal age for alcohol consumption which indicates to me that most are satisfied with 21.


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## Packard

kg333 said:


> ...To be honest, it bothers me a bit to see several older members of the board willing to push CCW so far back. If I might ask, do you hold similar opinions on voting, alcohol, and military service age limits?
> 
> KG


Voting (unless you vote "republican") does not put anyone at personal risk.

Drinking does.

Military service certainly demands much of youth. The qualities you want in a soldier deteriorate over years (so they become officers later on). My sister-in-law's brother was a Colonel in the Air Force. The same qualities that made him a superb fighter pilot made him a menace on the roads. Not one family member would ride with him driving (I made the mistake of letting him drive me back to the hotel at my brother's wedding. He pulled a 360 on the interstate in the snow, regained control and kept driving at the same speed. He ran two stop signs saying "I hope that guy [in front of us] does not stop at that sign." If he had we would have rear-ended him.

It bothers me that we ask young men to fight our wars, and then deny them the right to drink in bars. But, as I have said, the qualities that make good soldiers don't necessarily make responsible drinkers.


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## cclaxton

*When I was in...long time ago...18-21yo's could drink on base...is that still true?*



Packard said:


> It bothers me that we ask young men to fight our wars, and then deny them the right to drink in bars. But, as I have said, the qualities that make good soldiers don't necessarily make responsible drinkers.


When I was in (73-76), they had beer machines at the end of the barracks hallway. We couldn't drink off-base, but we could drink in the barracks. I know drinking beer was legal for us even though State drinking age was 21...on Federal Property. I remember drinking booze, too, but I don't remember where I got it....I think we could buy it from the commissary.

Is that still true?


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## SMann

Base commanders can authorize the 18 and up military members to drink on base, but they rarely do. The only time I personally saw it was the night of the Marine Corps Ball and one time while deployed everybody got two beers for the superbowl.


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## cclaxton

SMann said:


> Base commanders can authorize the 18 and up military members to drink on base, but they rarely do. The only time I personally saw it was the night of the Marine Corps Ball and one time while deployed everybody got two beers for the superbowl.


Man, how times have changed! A favorite story from those days is during my training period at an Air Force base, there was a small troop of Marines there for training. On Friday and Saturday they would go off base and get plastered, then on their return beat up the Air Force MP's at the gate just for fun. This happened about 6-7 times while I was based there. Finally somebody got injured and the Marines were locked on-based for the duration (which they HATED). The MP's then wrote them up for spitting on the sidewalk every chance they got. Paybacks hell!


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## Steve M1911A1

It's always fun to watch the OP help to hijack his own thread.


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## kg333

cclaxton said:


> ...there is no major political movement to change the legal age for alcohol consumption which indicates to me that most are satisfied with 21.


The Amethyst Initiative currently consists of 136 university presidents and chancellors who consider the minimum 21 drinking age as failed. I believe they support a graduated system starting at 18, somewhat similar to the "beer at 16, liquor at 18" laws that many countries in Europe have.



Packard said:


> Voting (unless you vote "republican") does not put anyone at personal risk.


Funny, I would have said voting "democrat" does. :smt083 Thank you for explaining your position though.



Steve M1911A1 said:


> In a word, "yes."
> Please re-read my previous post. The same sort of test could apply to our other civic "virtues."
> (Fools who are _over_ 18 would also be restricted. In the case of voting, I would also restrict dole suckers of any age.)


Fair enough Steve; the "civic privileges by merit" model has been around a while (since Mark Twain at least) and is well-respected.

----------------

My particular concern, towards those voting for 24 and past, is that to do so would be dangerously close to restricting basic freedoms under the Bill of Rights. I'm of the opinion that any full citizen in the US should be able to open carry a weapon under the 2nd Amendment, barring felons and the like who have had their rights restricted by due process. Although I do not consider _concealed_ carry to fall directly under that purview, it worries me that enacting restrictions on CCW and nothing else for those over 21 would result in other unconstitutional restrictions on the right to bear arms.

If lack of responsibility in the 19-22ish crowd really is an issue, most civic responsibilities and privileges should be moved to higher age limits, including driving, voting, drinking, and minimum age for military service. I suspect that would simply result in irresponsible 22 year olds, however.

KG


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## Steve M1911A1

kg333 said:


> ...Fair enough Steve; the "civic privileges by merit" model has been around a while (since Mark Twain at least)...


You're teaching your grandma' to suck eggs...or rather, this ex-English-major-History-minor about American Literature and U.S. History.
I know exactly how long this idea has been around. I did not believe that it had originated with me.
Your post seems just a little patronizing.


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## kg333

Steve M1911A1 said:


> You're teaching your grandma' to suck eggs...or rather, this ex-English-major-History-minor about American Literature and U.S. History.
> I know exactly how long this idea has been around. I did not believe that it had originated with me.
> Your post seems just a little patronizing.


My apologies, it wasn't intended that way. To be honest, I like the idea and wouldn't mind living in a country that has it; it'd be one heck of a do-over on the existing system though.


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## Steve M1911A1

Thank you for the polite reply and explanation.
All is now well.
Back to the conversation...


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## ozzy

Well I opened carried a Red Rider when I was 5, I advanced to a Crosman 760 'Real wood stock" a few years later. My first Shotty was under the XMAS tree at 10 and I purchased my first .22 rifle six months later with my paper route money. Meantime I shot my pops .38 and my cuz's .45 and .44 Mag. They liked to watch me handle the big guns which I did well. So for an answer I say it depends on the person.


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## wjh2657

We CCWers scream so loud about the constitution and the fact that the Second Amendment means all citizens (people who can vote) have the right to bear arms, most saying without a state issued permit. If this is the drum we, As a community, wish to beat then we must recognize that the constitution now allows 18 year olds to vote, ergo: Citizens. Once you extend one right in the Constitution to a group, you are pretty much committed to extend other rights. 

BTW, I am 68 years old and not a radical 18 year old. I am also a 30 year Marine Retiree and if I hear anymore bad mouthing of Jarheads as being violent and impulsive I am going to find out where you live and kick you’re a** like a long lost Swabbie!


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## cclaxton

*No badmouthing...just a real story*



wjh2657 said:


> We CCWers scream so loud about the constitution and the fact that the Second Amendment means all citizens (people who can vote) have the right to bear arms, most saying without a state issued permit. If this is the drum we, As a community, wish to beat then we must recognize that the constitution now allows 18 year olds to vote, ergo: Citizens. Once you extend one right in the Constitution to a group, you are pretty much committed to extend other rights.
> 
> BTW, I am 68 years old and not a radical 18 year old. I am also a 30 year Marine Retiree and if I hear anymore bad mouthing of Jarheads as being violent and impulsive I am going to find out where you live and kick you're a** like a long lost Swabbie!


I hope I didn't communicate any disrespect...nothing but respect for Marines, especially ones that were put in harms way. At the time I LMAO at how the MP's couldn't hold their own against the Marines. But it was the 70's....different times. Nobody thought any less of the Marines, except perhaps the base commander.


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## Steve M1911A1

wjh2657 said:


> ..._f I hear anymore bad mouthing of Jarheads as being violent and impulsive I am going to find out where you live and kick you're a** like a long lost Swabbie!_


_
:anim_lol: :anim_lol: :anim_lol:_


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