# Hodgdon's Longshot powder



## gmaske

Has anybody worked with this powder in pistols or anything else for that matter? I'm looking at it for .45ACP loads. I'm working up a 200 grain HP defense type load and this powder seems to have the numbers volicity wise anyway. Is it clean or dirty? Does it meter well in powder drop systems?


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## Baldy

They have only one loading on their site for a 200gr Spear JHP.
Longshot
7grs @ 918fps to 7.8grs @ 1013fps.
I have never used it myself so I can't help you much. Here's a link to Hodgdons Site. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
Good luck.:smt1099


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## gmaske

Thanks! That's were I started this whole search. I'm looking at velocity and that one is the hottest one listed.
I was also looking at the Vihtavuori VV N340 powder data which is a bit faster but I doubt my local supplier will have that one.


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## SDefender

I have very recently done load development using Longshot and AA #5 for .45 auto using 185, 200 and 230 jacketed bullets in my Glock 36. Working up .2 grains at a time to maximum +.4 grains from each OEM powder site, I found LS to be about 100 FPS less than AA #5. 

My high end choice for .45 auto is Accurate's AA #5. My high end choice for .40 S&W is Hodgdon's Longshot. LS in my Glock 27 using 165 jacketed and another person's Glock 34 is stellar for velocity, SD and ES.

For both choices above, I have compared my data with a lot of other tested OEM cartridges by gun scribes and brassfetcher data and nothing beats them. Recoil I consider to be moderate plus.


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## gmaske

SDefender said:


> I have very recently done load development using Longshot and AA #5 for .45 auto using 185, 200 and 230 jacketed bullets in my Glock 36. Working up .2 grains at a time to maximum +.4 grains from each OEM powder site, I found LS to be about 100 FPS less than AA #5.
> 
> My high end choice for .45 auto is Accurate's AA #5. My high end choice for .40 S&W is Hodgdon's Longshot. LS in my Glock 27 using 165 jacketed and another person's Glock 34 is stellar for velocity, SD and ES.
> 
> For both choices above, I have compared my data with a lot of other tested OEM cartridges by gun scribes and brassfetcher data and nothing beats them. Recoil I consider to be moderate plus.


That's the kind of data I'm looking for. Thanks! I am trying to push a 200 grain HP/XTP as fast as possible for the perpose of developing my own defense load. All this with in reason of cource. The Bullseye load I'm presently working with has a published 915fps but doesn't list the barrel legnth. I would guess a 5" so I'm sure with my 4.2" I'm loosing a bit.


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## SDefender

Out of my Glock 36, 3.8" barrel. I have not done any tuning yet. Was going to try different primers and COALs. My chrono data is significantly lower than Accurate's... It is nearly identical in 230 grain, accounting for my shorter barrel. I have read from several sources that Montana Gold bullets are slower than others, possibley due to a high brass content??? Have a set of Gold Dots made up to chrono next week. 

Double Tap 200 GDs are faster, about 1067 FPS, but have more recoil.

String 31 Montana Gold 200 JFN .45 / 1.225"	Accurate AA #5 9.7 grains 
1)	955.5	-2 
2)	931.6	-25.9 
3)	956.6	-0.9 
4)	955.5	-2 
5)	959.9	2.4 
6)	986	28.5 

High:	986 
Low:	931.6 
E.S.:	54.4 
Ave.:	957.5 
S.D.:	17.3 
95%:	19.9


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## gmaske

This is cool but explain the numbers. I'm guessing the first is fps but the -** I don't understand.


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## SDefender

gmaske said:


> This is cool but explain the numbers. I'm guessing the first is fps but the -** I don't understand.


Took me a minute, but I see the issue now. I have a CED M2 chronograph. When done shooting for the day, I take it home and dump the data to an Excel spreadsheet on my PC. So what you do not see are the column separators from this copy I pasted.

- So, first column has shot numbers ( IE: Shot 1)
- 2nd column has FPS data
- 3nd column is the amount of variance from the average ( IE -2 FPS for shot 1).
- So you can see that most of the shot-shot variance is in shot numbers 2 and 6. I need to investigate this to see what is going on, as you can see the other 4 shots are great. But in reality, 6 shots does not actually give a good variance. One needs to do a bunch more for truely accurate data. But for initial investigation, this is what I do.

My intent was also to use 200 grains for SD. But my pistol seems to like 230s better. Have to do more testing to find out the best though... Will be time consuming.

One needs a chrono to test the ammunition in one's own guns. Someone elses data will probably just be an initial guide.

Chronos rock! I have ran quite a few factory loads across the chrono and it teels the true story, not just the OEM advertised data.

Also go to brassfetcher.com for more data.


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## TOF

Looks to be deviation from average to me.

:smt1099


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## gmaske

Between the two of you I can see a chronograph in my future. I guess you can't take it with you so you might as well spend it.
I'm gonna have to scope out a quiet spot on BLM or Forest Service land to shoot. The public range were I shoot is getting more and more crowded as the weather warms. The place can be a total zoo sometimes. I don't think setting up a Chrono is gonna work in that setting. Do you have to do anything special to up load your data to Excel? I have it on my computer but to be honest I've never worked with it.


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## SDefender

gmaske said:


> Between the two of you I can see a chronograph in my future. I guess you can't take it with you so you might as well spend it.
> Do you have to do anything special to up load your data to Excel? I have it on my computer but to be honest I've never worked with it.


All chronos could be different. My CED M2 does it all. All I do is hook the head unit from the chrono to a USB port on my PC and tell the OEM application to download it. It then downloads all the data. What is downloaded is all the shot data. I then add additional data such as powder, bullet, COAL, etc. etc.

Note: There are chronos priced from $80 to mega dollars and they all do the same basic thing but have different bells and whistles. My CED M2 costs about $200 plus I have more than that in options, such as IR and spare parts for when I end up shooting it. I would not have anything less for my purposes. It has a 1000 shot memory that can be divided into up to 500 strings. The SS I copied the shot data from above had 71 strings with 6 shots per string. I could not have done this with most/any of the less expensive units.

Just think about your needs carefully prior to selecting a chrono.


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## gmaske

Ive done a little shopping on that score and I'm thinking this will get me started and it has an upgrade for stuff like a printer or computer down loading. It seems to have excellent ratings also.
Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph 
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=852429

On another note my idea of using a 200 grain HP as a self defense round seems to be going down the tubes. The reality that I'm loosing foot pounds of energy to the 230 grain that is driven at only slightly lower speeds is starting to sink in. I haven't looked at the numbers directly but it seems as though I'm only picking up somewere around 150 to 200 FPS by using the 200 over the 230. The added mass just makes sense for improved penitration and exspantion energy.


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## TOF

gmaske said:


> Ive done a little shopping on that score and I'm thinking this will get me started and it has an upgrade for stuff like a printer or computer down loading. It seem to have excellent ratings also.
> Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph
> http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=852429
> 
> On another note my idea of using a 200 grain HP as a self defense round seems to be going down the tubes. The reality that I'm loosing foot pounds of energy to the 230 grain that is driven at only slightly lower speeds is starting to sink in. I haven't looked at the numbers directly but it seems as though I'm only picking up somewere around 150 to 200 FPS by using the 200 over the 230. The added mass just makes sense for improved penitration and exspantion energy.


The Chrono you indicate should do everything you need. I have a different brand that my family bought for me as a present. It has the printer and stuff which I never use. I don't like to many battery powered gadgets unless realy necessary.

If you listen to the professionals teaching Personal Defense tactics etc. you will hear that your Carry Ammo should be store bought. All based on possibility of a Lawyer turning you into a monster that purposly loaded a batch of "Killer Bullets" to use on that poor gentle kid that just asked for a small handout to carry him over between sessions with the Crack Pipe!!.

I don't know if they are correct or not but just in case my carry ammo is store bought. It is not necessarily the latest craze stuff that sells for $1.50 per round but it is commercial hollow points that will give a BG pause should I pitch a couple in his direction.

I do load walk in the woods rounds that are intended for non human consumption. I guess that could generate a problem should I run into a BG in the woods but will just have to chance it.

Most of my reloads go through paper.

:smt1099


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## gmaske

I am of the opinion that if you are using standard unmodified bullets and standard loading data then I think the Lawyer thing would have a hard time holding water. This same argument could be applied the other way if you buy the meanest knarliest fanged store bought defense round that money can buy. The bullets are designed to do as much damage to the human animal that is possible. You are deliberately buying it for that reason so you are just as guilty of desiring to SMITE your poor magget infested brother who only needed a loan to get him by. :smt022

We could all just carry WWB ball ammo in our guns and make the lawyers happy!


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## SDefender

I think that once you start using a chrono you will learn many things. Through my chrono, the 230s are only about 60 FPS slower, but have a little more noticeable recoil. I tested all of my handloaded carry ammunition last night for accuracy off a rest and the 230 had 9 plus a flier in 1.25" (1 hole) at 7 yds from a relatively stock Glock 36. The 200s are slightly less accurate. Either will do and are better than any OEM stuff I have tested.

I decided to carry my own handloads when I could not find a SD round that had the bullet I wanted (GD or GS as the XTP does not do well through denim) along with the velocity, SD and recoil I and the G36 were willing to compromise on. In several forums, GlockTalk being one, a member had a lawyer check on the handload SD issue and could not find any legal precedence against it. The only thing I have read negative is from gun scribes. 

I have decided since my ammunition is superior to any OEM I have tested, including +P, and I have found great loads for MY pistols without going into the +P range, I will stick to my own. My first priority is for the best SD I can have. I would rather be judged by 12 of my peers than carried by 6 of my friends.


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