# Carrying a gun is serious business...



## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

Carrying a gun is a duty, and obligation and should be taken very seriously…and why?...because it's serious business.

I carry a gun whenever it is legal.

I’ve heard of people saying…that when they enter the home or place of business of someone they don't know, they will inform them they are armed, and ask them if they would prefer that they not carry a gun while there. Not me, I don’t subscribe to this theory. I don’t look for trouble, but trouble may find me and I’m not taking any chances.

A lot of people ask me "Why do you carry a gun, do you expect trouble?"

No, I carry a gun not because I expect trouble, but because I can. If I was expecting trouble I'd carry a 12ga.

The practice of carrying a weapon is a clear assertion that I am a man. By that I'm not talking about macho crap. By saying I am a man, I mean that I am an adult, responsible for my actions, and willing to accept the consequences of my actions.

When you carry a gun you have in your hands (or on your hip), the ability to end any man's life. This is a massive responsibility, second only to that of raising children.

Many people are uncomfortable with that responsibility. They believe that they can't be trusted with it, nor should anyone else. They fall back on saying "the police" or "the government" should take care of that. Someone with special training, and the blessings of the state should be responsible, but not me, or you, or anyone else.

This kind of thinking says plain and simply… "I am immature, and I cannot to be trusted".

When I carry a gun, I accept the fact that I may kill someone. I don't ever plan on doing it, I hope it doesn't happen, but it might. I am prepared for this possibility, and I accept the consequences should it happen and you should too.

Don't leave home without it and stay safe,
Bob


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## sliponby (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm with you Bob. I tell very few people that I carry a gun. And yes, it is an awesome responsibility and should be given the utmost thought and consideration by anyone choosing to take on this undertaking. I look at it as a philosophy and your post pretty much sums it up, for me at least. 

I was once asked by a neighbor who owns long guns and hanguns but never carries on his person (occasionally a revolver in the glove compartment), "you don't want to shoot somebody do you?" To which I replied, 'not unless they force me to'. The last thing any sane gun owner wants is to be put in the position to have to draw their weapon to defend their life. No one prays harder for peace than the soldier.:smt1099


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## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

sliponby, thanks. I really like this comment " No one prays harder for peace than the soldier."

Here's a story that happened to me.
________________________________________________________
OK, here's a story about what happened to me recently. I was at a family gathering last year for a not so happy event. Things got pretty tense and some family members started getting very belligerent to say the least.

Ahead of time, I told one of them I was carrying. When things got out of control another family member went for his gun in his bedroom (he told several that's what he was going to do.) His intended target was me. He obviously had an issue with me that he couldn't work out in his own mind.

During this episode, someone called 911 and told them there was a man in the house that had a gun. They were talking about the homeowner (who I just mentioned was going for his gun.) When the police arrived they began questioning and the person who knew I was carrying told the cops I was carrying a gun (Kahr PM9 by the way.) Needless to say, I got grilled by the police. I was carrying legally and the gun NEVER LEFT MY HOLSTER. But the cops got the wrong message. The original caller of 911 was referring to the tirade of the homeowner (who didn't know I was carrying) and not me.

It ended OK, I was asked to leave, which I gladly did and the cops hung around until emotions cooled down. I never went back there again and never will. But I will say this. Moral of the story...NEVER tell anyone you're carrying. They don't need to know.

This is what can happen if someone knows you're carrying. My advice, don't tell.
__________________


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## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

+1 on all that has been said this thread so far.:smt1099 Stay safe everyone


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## jeffreybehr (Feb 10, 2009)

Very well said, HW. I too take that responsibility seriously.

One thing not oft said is that those who don't carry assume that someone else has a large part of that responsibility. My idiot-liberal bro-in-law (who recently returned to the left coast of Kalifornication) harrased me for being stupid enough to believe my personal safety was *my* responsibility! Oh well...I no longer consider him part of the family.


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## Redwolf (Nov 29, 2008)

I will add that I can only think of three ways to protect yourself and you family. 
1.	Active, IE using your brain, carrying a gun.
2.	Relying on Police.
3.	Prayer or Luck.
I first one relies on you to protect yourself and family, its your responsibility 
The second relies on the police to do it for them, which that isn’t their job and yes the courts said so. And the last you rely on faith or luck that it will never happen to you. If you chose one of the last two I wish you all the best of luck.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*I rely on prayer...*

...every morning when I put my .45 in my belt, I pray that I won't need it and that I won't miss if I do...and there is no luck...those of us who carry all the time have simply realized that we can count on ourselves...others who don't carry or carry when the mood strikes them or they "feel" like it might be good to carry today...well, different folks see things differently...for myself, I took an oath when I joined the Corps...another when I became a cop...both over 35 years ago...and when I pulled the pin...the hole never healed...and I still believe in fighting evil to protect my loved ones and yours...

...oh, I forgot the police...they're the guys that come after the party to clean up...and that ain't their fault...they're only human...it takes minutes to get there when seconds count...


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, but...I don't carry concealed and have some certain theories on this. 1.)I don't go anywhere that will make me feel "unsafe" unless I'm carrying a weapon. 2.) If I am going anywhere that I feel I might need a weapon, I will put my weapon in the car [which is legal in my state], or 3.) Carry it open and exposed [again, legal in my state]...but knowing that if I am carrying a weapon I'm probably somewhere that I might need a weapon which brings me back to point number one, never go anywhere that will make me feel unsafe. 
On the lighter points of the subject, I'll bet my neighbor's all think I'm crazy and luckily nobody has ever called the police on me (or maybe they have and the police told them it's legal to do so) but, sometimes when I'm out in the yard doing yard-work, I carry with a USMC Pilot/Officer's Chest holster strapped right across my chest! My logic here is that I am sending a message. Here in Colorado a lot of our neighborhoods have these "walking" trails that go through the neighborhoods and lets just say that I have seen some less than honest looking people on these trails. I figure that if any one of them are "casing" houses that they are looking to break into or rob, they're more likely to choose someone else's place instead of the crazy former Marine's house who carrys weapons around with him all the time!


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

jfmartin-

Take all the instances of shopping mall shootings, corner store hold ups and just plain random shootings you hear of.... none of those victims ever thought they would be anywhere where they would wish they had a gun.

In the last 2 years, there have been a handful of public shootings within 5 miles of me. Earlier this year 2 armed robbers walked into a Walmart in Lakewood, Wa and shot an armed security guard, point blank. When I saw it on the news, all I could think was "I go in there all the time!"

No one else was hurt in the scenario, but in the middle of the day, in one of the most crowded public places... things could have gone far different.

If you carry, you are atleast putting your safety in your own hands. If you don't, you are leaving it up to fate.

just something to think about.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

jfmartin25 said:


> I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, but...I don't carry concealed and have some certain theories on this. 1.)I don't go anywhere that will make me feel "unsafe" unless I'm carrying a weapon. 2.) If I am going anywhere that I feel I might need a weapon, I will put my weapon in the car [which is legal in my state], or 3.) Carry it open and exposed [again, legal in my state]...but knowing that if I am carrying a weapon I'm probably somewhere that I might need a weapon which brings me back to point number one, never go anywhere that will make me feel unsafe.
> On the lighter points of the subject, I'll bet my neighbor's all think I'm crazy and luckily nobody has ever called the police on me (or maybe they have and the police told them it's legal to do so) but, sometimes when I'm out in the yard doing yard-work, I carry with a USMC Pilot/Officer's Chest holster strapped right across my chest! My logic here is that I am sending a message. Here in Colorado a lot of our neighborhoods have these "walking" trails that go through the neighborhoods and lets just say that I have seen some less than honest looking people on these trails. I figure that if any one of them are "casing" houses that they are looking to break into or rob, they're more likely to choose someone else's place instead of the crazy former Marine's house who carrys weapons around with him all the time!


I'm not out to flame you, but I do want to strongly disagree. As YFZ pointed out, it's really hard to draw the line on where you feel safe, and where you may actually be safe. Just because you feel safe, you may or may not be safe. Carrying a gun doesn't necessarily ensure your safety, but it sure does go a long way towards it. I personally don't think open carrying is a great idea either. I think that takes away some of the advantage of having a gun by your side, and may actually be counter-productive on ensuring your safety. Just my thoughts. YMMV.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*Feelings...*

...can getcha killed...I won't flame anyone...I will recommend to all:

Teeth of the Tiger...by Tom Clancy...in it is a well-written account of what can happen at the mall...especially in our times...rattlesnakes have a way of showing up where you least expect them....


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## sliponby (Nov 16, 2009)

jfmartin25. Come on now. "I hope I don't get flamed..." I had to read your post a couple of times to be certain that I was reading it right. Then I read it again to see if maybe there was some underlying meaning I may have missed.

The chances of a person being in an encounter with an armed assailant are very slim. I don't fault you for not carrying, that is your decision and not for me to judge. But let me ask you, do you ever go to church, a community center, the mall, heck, virtually anywhere, and there could be an armed criminal confronting you. I'd imagine your thoughts might be 'I didn't think this was an unsafe place'...

I hope to God that never happens to any of us but your reasoning and your theories leave me somewhat dismayed.:smt1099


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*Nobody thought...*

...that a crazy man would drive a truck into Luby's in Killeen, Tx in the middle of the day and kill 20+ people and wound I forget how many more...but he did...and the lady who had left her gun in the car to obey our law saw her parents killed that day...and got busy and got elected to the Texas House and helped get our CCW license law passed...that American Patriot can tell you: anytime...anywhere....


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

_"Take all the instances of shopping mall shootings, corner store hold ups and just plain random shootings you hear of.... none of those victims ever thought they would be anywhere where they would wish they had a gun."_ -YZFsandrider

I guess this is personal choice for me because I *rarely* go to shopping malls. In fact the other day my wife and I went to the mall and we both were walking and kinda looked at each other and said, "Ya know, I honestly can't remember the last time I was here...it must be over a year ago!" Taking this into account, and considering that the mall is located directly across the street from the United States Air Force Academy...the security is tight, and the people who are shopping there are pretty conservative, and from my knowledge there hasn't been a whole bunch of crime there unless you consider juvenille deliquents who smoke cigarettes illegally when skipping school, "criminals".



jdeere9750 said:


> Carrying a gun doesn't necessarily ensure your safety, but it sure does go a long way towards it. I personally don't think open carrying is a great idea either. I think that takes away some of the advantage of having a gun by your side, and may actually be counter-productive on ensuring your safety. Just my thoughts. YMMV.


 I agree. Carrying a gun does not necessarily ensure your safety. But I would politely disagree that open carry is not a good idea. I would theroize that an armed society is a safe society and that crime would be nearly none-existant. Can you imagine if some stupid criminal walked into a 7-11 to hold it up, and then noticed that the five customers standing in line all were wearing .45's in various places. I'm willing to bet he'd rethink that one real quick!



sheepdog said:


> ...can getcha killed...I won't flame anyone...I will recommend to all:
> 
> Teeth of the Tiger...by Tom Clancy...in it is a well-written account of what can happen at the mall...especially in our times...rattlesnakes have a way of showing up where you least expect them....


No offense, but Tom Clancy is a novelist. A Fiction writer;
"Tom Clancy 
Born April 12, 1947 (1947-04-12) (age 62)
Baltimore County, Maryland, United States 
Occupation Novelist 
Nationality American 
Writing period 1984 - 2003 
Genres Techno-thriller, Crime fiction,
Military fiction, nonfiction" -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy

I think we would benefit more in Clint Smith's writings, from Thunder Ranch.:smt1099



sliponby said:


> The chances of a person being in an encounter with an armed assailant are very slim. I don't fault you for not carrying, that is your decision and not for me to judge. But let me ask you, do you ever go to church, a community center, the mall, heck, virtually anywhere, and there could be an armed criminal confronting you. I'd imagine your thoughts might be 'I didn't think this was an unsafe place'...
> 
> I hope to God that never happens to any of us but your reasoning and your theories leave me somewhat dismayed.:smt1099


 I understand your position. If an armed criminal ever did point his weapon at me and scream, "Gimme your wallet"...hell, I'd just hand it over. (There's never any cash in there, and the credit cards won't get him far because I'm married - which is to say, I'm always broke!:smt112)

Look, I'm not trying to upset anyone for their personal choice of carrying concealed, which I honestly feel should be legal in every state and should be just that-personal choice. I'm just saying that I don't carry concealed, and that I have my reasons for not doing so. That doesn't make me crazy, that doesn't make me foolish, *that doesn't make me any more likely than someone who does carry to be a vicitim*. It just happens to be my choice that I choose not to carry concealed.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

jfmartin25 said:


> No offense, but Tom Clancy is a novelist. A Fiction writer;
> "Tom Clancy
> Born April 12, 1947 (1947-04-12) (age 62)
> Baltimore County, Maryland, United States
> ...


Thank you for the biography on Tom Clancy...he is one of the most fact-based writers of our time...the example stands...I am sure that Clint Smith's writings, and many other experts' writings...would agree that the scenario depicted there could very well happen...there have in fact been mall mass shootings...and that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage even in a well-planned attack...which was the point of the example...those who've read it, know...


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

sheepdog said:


> ...there have in fact been mall mass shootings...and that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage even in a well-planned attack...which was the point of the example...those who've read it, know...


 You missed my point entirely. And, just like my choice to carry or not to carry, I choose _not_ to make decisions about my life based on fiction/fantasy writers' claim as to what _might_ happen and how it _could be_ mitigated. I did not state that mall shootings have not occured. I did not state that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage. I simply stated that Clancy is a novelist, and the point was that I choose not to put much weight into fiction-based writings. Again, personal choice.:mrgreen:


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

I turned on the news this morning to find that a gunman walked into a quiet coffee shop in Lakewood, Wa and shot 4 Lakewood PD officers dead. I did some remodeling in that Forza a couple years ago, and have been in there a couple times for coffee since.

Always carry. You don't have to be in a dark back alley to be in a threatening situation.


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

sheepdog said:


> Thank you for the biography on Tom Clancy...he is one of the most fact-based writers of our time...


 -Although still a novelist, nonetheless.



sheepdog said:


> the example stands...


 -For you and anyone else who believes in fiction novels. Not for me, thanks, and I'll make my own choice on what is a good example and what is not. Try not to impose your opinion on me.



sheepdog said:


> I am sure that Clint Smith's writings, and many other experts' writings...would agree that the scenario depicted there could very well happen...


 -Use examples, quote some writers or other authors if you can so that I am not seeing this as simply _*your opinion *_that "_other experts_" feel just like you do. What _qualifies_ them as experts?



sheepdog said:


> there have in fact been mall mass shootings...


 -I did not debate this as this is general information that all of society recognizes as fact.



sheepdog said:


> and that citizens being armed could have mitigated the damage even in a well-planned attack...


-I did not debate this either, but we could by saying, "Just because_ any _citizen is carrying, does not imply that_ any _citizen would have mitigated the damage." In fact, we could go further to debate that some citizens may have caused further damage, because we *cannot* say that we can honestly know the exact outcome of every situation without taking into consideration experience and emotion of each individual who carries a weapon concealed. Everyone is different and cannot so easily fit into _anyone's_ description as to what a person who carries a concealed weapon will actually be _able_, and _not able _to do in any given situation. To make such a ridiculous claim is stating that just because someone is carrying a concealed weapon, they are automatically qualified to take down a random shooter without causing any other collateral damage or causing any other citizen to become and innocent victim. No one can make such a claim and validate this. Not even a famous fact-based fiction writer.



sheepdog said:


> which was the point of the example...those who've read it, know...


-Again, this is fiction no matter how "fact-based" Clancy's writings are. The _only_ way this can be used as an example is if every person who carries a concealed weapon has the experience and emotional capacity to _handle_ a situation like this and be _able_ and _capable_ of shooting the assailant *without harming anyone else*. Simply stated, I sincerely doubt that *EVERYONE* (in the emperical sense) who has a concealed weapon permit and carries would fall into this category. It is all hypothetical. I am not stating that _a lot _of people who have permits and carry could _not _perform this task, I am only stating that there are _some_ who could not. Which invalidates your example that just _anyone_ who has a weapon could mitigate damage in a situation like this. Therefore, it is *NOT* a good example and it _does not _stand.:numbchuck:


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## Redwolf (Nov 29, 2008)

Theres only one time you will ever need your weapon, The day you leave it at home.


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm simply stating that it's my choice to carry concealed or not to. My state laws allow citizens to carry open, which is what I choose to do. I have my reasons, you have yours. Either way, neither of us is unprotected, so further debate about what would happen in "this" situation or "that", is somewhat pointless. I've got mine on my belt right now as I sit and type this in the safety of my home. If I leave the house today, it will still be there on my side.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*I don't know who assigned you...*

...the responsibility to pick apart my posts point by point and phrase by phrase and rebut each one...but I haven't seen such diligent effort expended since the last conversation I had with my ex-wife...:smt082:smt082:smt082


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

sheepdog said:


> ...the responsibility to pick apart my posts point by point and phrase by phrase and rebut each one...but I haven't seen such diligent effort expended since the last conversation I had with my ex-wife...:smt082:smt082:smt082


 Sorry to hear that you are comparing me to your ex-wife. She must be a nice lady. Just kidding. Happy Thanksgiving!


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

It certainly is everyone's choice whether to carry concealed or not. You should do as you like.

I happen to believe that open carry can put you at a disadvantage in some instances.

I do not believe that concealed carry ever puts you at a disadvantage.

I believe that most States want you conceal carry for some very good / solid reasons.

We've all heard those reasons - most, not all, but most States got well thought out input from LEO's / judges / law makers with a lot of experience to come up with the concealed carry position.

Since some states allow open carry, there must be some well infomedr people that think the other way.

Good, viva la difference - that's why they make Fords and Chevy's.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion w/o being challenged to prove their position.

Just my .02

:smt1099


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## sliponby (Nov 16, 2009)

jfmartin25 said:


> I understand your position. If an armed criminal ever did point his weapon at me and scream, "Gimme your wallet"...hell, I'd just hand it over. (There's never any cash in there, and the credit cards won't get him far because I'm married - which is to say, I'm always broke!:smt112)


Most armed robberies end non-violently with the with the BG's taking the money and run. If I was held up for my wallet, watch, etc., I'd gladly hand it over and let the BG be on his way. Would I shoot him while he was going away? No. I can cancel my credit cards, I don't carry much cash and my watch is a $40 Timex. Hardly worth a person's life-even a criminal armed robber.

Most armed robbers are not madmen. They don't want trouble, they just want your possessions and be on their way. It's the madman that you must be on guard for. The shooter who killed the 4 cops in WA today reportedly had no motive for robbery, just to shoot and kill 4 cops. Senseless, unpredictable violence. That, jfmartin25, may be encountered anywhere, anytime.

Stay safe. God Bless the innocent cops killed in WA and their loved ones.:smt1099


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*That used to be true...*



sliponby said:


> Most armed robberies end non-violently with the with the BG's taking the money and run. If I was held up for my wallet, watch, etc., I'd gladly hand it over and let the BG be on his way. Would I shoot him while he was going away? No. I can cancel my credit cards, I don't carry much cash and my watch is a $40 Timex. Hardly worth a person's life-even a criminal armed robber.
> 
> Most armed robbers are not madmen. They don't want trouble, they just want your possessions and be on their way. It's the madman that you must be on guard for. The shooter who killed the 4 cops in WA today reportedly had no motive for robbery, just to shoot and kill 4 cops. Senseless, unpredictable violence. That, jfmartin25, may be encountered anywhere, anytime.
> 
> Stay safe. God Bless the innocent cops killed in WA and their loved ones.:smt1099


...back in the day...but in recent years armed robbers/muggers have killed many victims just for the thrill of it or because they didn't have much money on them...enough that some teachers advocate some throw money seperate from your real money to give you a chance to run or fight as they pick it up...an armed robber who robs me is going to be stopped if I get a chance...
...most important thing in my wallet...my carry permit...it'd take months to replace...


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## GoFullAuto (Nov 22, 2009)

Super delicate matter, here in Italy people are scared to death at the idea of citizens going armed, there is a huge level of distrust between fellow citizens :-(

My 2 cents is this: carrying is like buckling up. That is, the very last line of defense when all else failed. On the road, that means "all other safety rules". On self defense, that means "when society allowed violent aggressors to roam free around, so that a gun is all that may stand between me and the "mercy" of said murderers. It's not a matter of big principles, I myself thik that it SHOULD be my state's FIRST responsibility, to keep me protected. But, even the best state will fail to do so 100% of time.

It's a matter of facts. Hit with no belt and you'll smash face in window. Be caught that one time in life by an overwhelming aggressor, and you'll just succumb to his "mercy".

All the remaining details (carry open / hidden / revo / semiauto / DA / SA / Glock / 1-2-3 spare mags) simply have to be adapted to context, there can be no absolute recipe. 

Not my problem anyway, my citizens have long decided they (we...) prefer to be victims. :-/

Ciao! 
GfA


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## twomode (Jun 7, 2009)

jfmartin, other than to state your position that it's a duty and an obligation to carry, your remaining statements and posts actually confuse or are contradictory to your first.

You state you don't go anywhere without your weapon. You don't go anywhere that's is unsafe unless you have your gun. 
Then since it's unsafe, you don't go there. Then, you carry in your yard while mowing the lawn (or planting flowers or whatever) and you are carrying while sitting at your 'puter posting!!!!

*By your own definition, 2 places you deem unsafe.*

I think you need to move out of your house. To where I have NO idea.

Furthermore, you deviate from what is an obvious attempt at an argument when others post their different views. If all you want is for everyone to agree with everything you say, well, I've never seen that forum. If you're going to post a point of view, expect debate. Fresh, knowledgeable, respectful debate. And then learn from it. That's why people responded. You did yourself no favors arguing with different points of view.


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## MonsterB (Oct 25, 2009)

I dont know of any place where you are truely 100% safe, and noone ever knows when something bad will happen or where....so many things could happen, its crazy to try to summarize them all....bottom line is that if you have your weapon with you, you are always going to be better off than if you didnt have it.....maybe you will never need it, or maybe tomorrow while you are in line for coffee or shopping with the missus you will, if anyone who has been walking the face of the earth for more than 5 minutes hasnt figured out that nothing is guaranteed, well then theres no hope for you.....

never mind the bad guys, what about things like dog attacks or big pet monkeys named travis? Think the lady who had her face and hands ripped off by the monkey wasnt wishing for a 45? 

I think if you can carry and have a licence, then you should, always...


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## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

Redwolf said:


> Theres only one time you will ever need your weapon, The day you leave it at home.


Well said Redwolf. Short, sweet, to the point.


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

*uhhhhhh*

:smt171

hate it when that happens...


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*Weren't no mall ninja around when...*

...these happened...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/4636987/detail.html

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7646493?source=bb

http://cbs4denver.com/local/denver.colorado.shooting.2.560991.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071205/mall-shooting/

http://www.mahalo.com/chicago-mall-shooting

...try telling the survivors that it won't happen here...or the many more that it's happened at before and after these...it's easy to dismiss them or ridicule those who warn us...till it's our niece or daughter...or mother or brother...times have sadly changed...proof is in the papers....


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

I agree with you sheepdog, I was implying that someone was being a troll...


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*I needa...*

...nudder cuppa coffee...I misread you...sorry...just blowin' the trumpet....again....


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

People tend to over-dramatize a bit when trying to express their reasons for carrying a gun. I've been guilty of it myself, because it really is kind of a monumental commitment, if you think about it. I've lived my whole life believing that I will exit this world without seriously harming another human being, and I still believe that will happen. 

But bad things happen to good people, every minute of the day, and most of them never believed such a thing to be possible. So, I choose to carry a lethal weapon on my body, just so I don't have to worry about the consequences of being caught completely defenseless. Should the 'victim selection process' ever go against me, or somebody I'm willing to defend, I won't go out with a whimper.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Carrying a gun is no business at all... meaning it's nobody else's business to know that you are carrying in my opinion. I've been carrying for a very long time, and there's perhaps a handful of people that know that I do, where I live.

I carry it just in case I need it, not because I think I will or because I'm so _switched on_ that I'll always be able to know where danger may be. I don't think anyone would or should purposefully put themselves in a dangerous area, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Ever get a flat tire? Ever take a wrong turn? Ever miss an exit on the highway? As my wife says about our dogs...shit happens, have a scooper!


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## buck32 (May 26, 2008)

zhurdan said:


> Carrying a gun is no business at all... meaning it's nobody else's business to know that you are carrying in my opinion. I've been carrying for a very long time, and there's perhaps a handful of people that know that I do, where I live.
> 
> I carry it just in case I need it, not because I think I will or because I'm so _switched on_ that I'll always be able to know where danger may be. I don't think anyone would or should purposefully put themselves in a dangerous area, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Ever get a flat tire? Ever take a wrong turn? Ever miss an exit on the highway? As my wife says about our dogs...shit happens, have a scooper!


+1

Now that is some real canine wisdom:numbchuck:


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## copyoftheoriginal (Nov 13, 2009)

the weapon itself is a tremendous amount of responsibility. A choice to be made without delusions of heroism.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*We've got...*

...a lot of people carrying who probably are wannabees...nursing "delusions of heroism"....as mentioned...we also have many carrying who are highly trained and experienced ex- and retired LEOS and Military who not only know when, but , more importantly, when NOT to...make use of the weapon...I think the majority fall far from the former...and yet won't come close to the latter...and don't want to...for them it's insurance for their safety and their families and they wouldn't want to be in a situation where they had to act...I've known some in all three categories and much prefer the second and third...the first make me nervous and are often downright embarrassing for the rest of us....


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## jfmartin25 (Nov 20, 2009)

twomode said:


> jfmartin, other than to state your position that it's a duty and an obligation to carry, your remaining statements and posts actually confuse or are contradictory to your first. .


 -_*Nope, never said that. Might want to go back and re-read ALL of MY posts and try a little harder not to confuse them with what others have said*_.



twomode said:


> You state you don't go anywhere without your weapon. You don't go anywhere that's is unsafe unless you have your gun. .


 _*Nope, sorry, wrong again. I did not say that I, "Don't go anywhere without a weapon". Again, you may want to go back and re-read all of MY posts.*_



twomode said:


> Then, you carry in your yard while mowing the lawn (or planting flowers or whatever) and you are carrying while sitting at your 'puter posting!!!!


 I think you missed my point, what I am trying to convey is that I tend to wear my weapon at times when other people might not think that any sane and rational individual would deem appropriate. I have never professed to be either of those two traits. On that note however, let me explain some of the benefits of carrying a weapon at certain times when people don't expect you to. The other day, some ex-criminal-looking post-teen rang the door bell and started off with a sales pitch about how he is reforming his life by selling magazine subscriptions door-to-door. He cut himself off mid-sentance when his eyes ceased contact with my eyes and recognized that I had holstered across my chest a very large pistol. I just smiled and slowly closed the door without saying a word. As I peered through the peephole, I could see him fast-walking back down the driveway and getting into a shitbox car that someone else was already waiting for him in. My thought process here was such; perhaps this "reformed" individual was not so "reformed" and was possibly casing the neighborhood looking for soft targets. If this is the case, I'm pretty sure he was well informed that my home was no soft target. Thank you very much.



twomode said:


> *By your own definition, 2 places you deem unsafe.*
> 
> I think you need to move out of your house. To where I have NO idea.
> 
> Furthermore, you deviate from what is an obvious attempt at an argument when others post their different views. If all you want is for everyone to agree with everything you say, well, I've never seen that forum. If you're going to post a point of view, expect debate. Fresh, knowledgeable, respectful debate. And then learn from it. That's why people responded. You did yourself no favors arguing with different points of view.


 I think you need to figure out who you're really angry with and take it out on them, not me. The intent of my original post was not to cause an argument, but to state my OPINION, just like everyone else did. I don't really care if people agree with me or not, nor do I care to waste any more energy on this subject arguing a dead point. I already stated *many* posts ago, that I have my side of view, other's have theirs' and that's the beauty of life. So, considering I already stated this, it looks to me like you were just looking to instigate more from me. Apparently you don't heed your own advice;


twomode said:


> Fresh, knowledgeable, respectful debate.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

jfmartin25 said:


> I don't really care if people agree with me or not, nor do I care to waste any more energy on this subject arguing a dead point. I already stated *many* posts ago, that I have my side of view, other's have theirs' and that's the beauty of life.


That is just fine - I can't say that I feel much different, as far as trying to please other people.

Your response to this is not necessary, since you have tired of the 'argument,' but, surely you understand that responsible people feel the need to offer rebuttal to statements they think are wrong, for the benefit of those who are new to the whole concept of defending themselves with firearms, and who are reading these threads diligently and with open minds.

Your philosophy of self-defense seems to be a bit 'one dimensional,' geared towards your always knowing when danger is likely, and making a show of strength that will make the average low-life decide to select an easier victim. That is probably a workable strategy for use against several different kinds of would-be attackers, and in a variety of circumstances. But, the thing is that most folks who have made the decision to carry a gun have their own particular 'pet' scenarios that they believe they are guarding against, and most of the more realistic ones require that the BG does not know that they are armed.

For example, in my own case, one of the scenarios I envision is something like the Luby's massacre, from twenty some odd years ago. This is probably because I used to stop in there occasionally, with my entire family, usually accompanied by my elderly parents. I imagine what it would have been like, had the BG showed up at one of those times. Naturally, this is one of the scenarios I play out in my mind when planning my personal SD 'plan.' There are others, of course, but this is the one that keeps me diligent in my practice discipline and in my determination to carry every day, everywhere I go.

In such a case, the BG intends to die, anyway, so if he sees a gun on someone, he is not going to back off, but rather will try to take out the gun-toter first, so he can do maximum damage before he checks out. This is just one example, but you get the point, I'm sure, that there are all different types of BG's.

My own personal opinion about open carry is that I believe it should be an option, but it is one that I would rarely avail myself of, because concealed carry suits my self-defense strategy better. As I get older, I can even imagine that open carry might actually make me the target of some punk who needed to steal a gun.


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## Marty919 (Dec 7, 2009)

*Concealed Carry is NOT for everyone (unfortunately)*

The topic of carrying a gun is so contentious, it rivals discussions of religion, abortion, politics...

That said, I don't think many people can disagree that we live in a dangerous and unpredictable world... whether you live in a major city or a rural area. Amazingly stupid things happen every day, when most people least expect it. Of course you don't want to intentionally go into a 'bad' area. Of course you don't want to ask for trouble. But that's the whole point of carrying - that you are prepared when you DON'T expect trouble.

So the obvious comes into play:

1. The police play a critical role in our society, but they DO NOT and CANNOT protect the citizenry en masse proactively. And even if they WANTED to, like the saying goes: when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Try calling 911 when your life is at immediate risk. Or hoping that when it happens there is conveniently a policeman or policewoman standing 5 feet away. I love to gamble, but not like that.

2. You hope you never need to pull your gun, but you'd rather have it and never need it, than need it and not have it.

3. And a million other reasons, rationalizations, truisms that speak to the wisdom of legally carrying a gun.

But it's NOT for everyone. Like driving a car, if you're not confident, don't do it. If you really don't feel comfortable carrying a gun, either don't do it (I don't want Nervous Nellies all around me with live guns), or better yet GET TRAINED. There is no substitute for experience. Most people find that the more they train and shoot, the more confident they become, and the more they 'feel' the seriousness of their responsibility as a gun owner and carrier.

A lot of good info and advice in this thread, but I wanted to add one more tidbit:

Carrying a gun IS serious business, and very serious responsibility. And that requires RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE who know that it's no one's business to know you are carrying (it cannot help and can only get you in trouble), that you don't pull your gun for anything less than YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER RIGHT NOW situations - and that does not include fights or arguments, or someone giving you the finger driving, or anything less than YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL DIE IF YOU DON'T PULL YOUR GUN!

One stupid person carrying can make a media mess for all the rest of us legal, responsible gun owners, and that's the last thing we need. I personally make it a habit to educate everyone I know to be more responsible, use better judgment, discuss this with other gun owners, keep the responsibility issue high on everyone's mind.

Stay safe everyone. Be smart. It's not that hard to do.

And a word for new gun carriers: Yes it can be exciting to have just gotten your carry permit. But this is not a reality show, it's real life. The day you get your permit to carry is the day you should lose the ego and bravado completely. This is one of the ultimate privileges of being an adult, and there is no more serious reality than having the power of life and death riding on your hip. There is NO room for error, you need to develop a ZERO tolerance policy for yourself. It is NOT something to show off. Ever.

Marty919


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*+1...*

...quality, well-written post...welcome....


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## Redwolf (Nov 29, 2008)

I second that.


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## oldtrojan66 (Feb 2, 2010)

I third that...I just hope everyone stays safe until the Good Lord calls them home...


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## jklotz (Feb 24, 2010)

*My 2 cents*

Hi Guys, new to the forum. Seems like a cool place to hang out...

Anyway, I felt that I should add my perspective to this discussion, as it's one close to my heart. I live in downtown Atlanta. My work is here and I live in my studio. On the last 6 months, there have been 3 armed car jackings, and 4 armed incidents involving my neighbors and friends. All of which have occurred within a 4 block radius of my home. Those are just the ones I know about that involved people I know first hand. Some scary sh*t! It's a war zone out there!

To make things worse, our mayor, in her infinite wisdom, thought it a good idea to lay off many of the LEO's and firefighters, as the budget of our city is in a crisis situation due to the economy and a grossly mismanaged city pension fund.

I have no choice but to carry. I'm no hero, have no desire to fight or cause trouble, don't believe any possession is worth a human life, and, if given the option, would probably choose not to carry. I simply don't have a choice, short of moving to a safer area, which would, in turn, be bad for my business, not to mention selling my property at a loss, which I'm not willing to do.

That being said, I don't take the decision lightly. I applied for my permit and am taking a weekend long class by certified instructors. In addition, I plan to hone my skills with some IDPA matches and some serious range time. It's a major responsibility, and part of that responsibility is to get the proper training to be able to do so safely.

Now I might get flamed for saying this (cut me a break guys, it's my 1st post), but it blows me away knowing that all I had to do to get a permit was to go down to city hall, get fingerprinted, fill out a few forms and give them $60. Never once was I asked what training I had or if I knew how to carry responsibly. Hell, they never even asked me if I had even shot a gun before!

Why on earth would some training or certification not be required to get a weapons permit? You need it to get a drivers license for God's sake. I just don't get it.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 jklotz

Welcome to this forum - I think you'll like it here.

Great 1st post on your part.

I agrees - everyone that get a carry licence should have to take a class & proficiency test.

I didn't like taking my class either, :smt172 but it needs to be done. 

:smt1099:smt1099


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## twomode (Jun 7, 2009)

Welcome jklotz stick around this is the highest quality forum you'll find. No crap, just facts. 

There are many among us who would say that what little you went through was too much. By that I mean that your right to own and enjoy as many weapons as you like without any intervention whatsoever is gauranteed by the 2nd Amendment. You just walk into a store and buy what you want like bubble gum. My CC class instructor made no bones about the fact that we were "forced" to take his class, and he hated that for us. That being said I still believe some rules I agree with. Convicted felon restrictions, people with mental illnesses. You get the idea. But then that begs the question, where do rules make sense, and when are they infringing on our God given rights as U.S. citizens? The 2A doesn't address the problems we have today, but it's still the most important one of all. Without it, none of the others are enforceable. 

If you're just getting started spend some time here. There is no question you might have that hasn't been asked (some repeatedly) and no answer you can't find. As you browse different forums, you'll see what I mean. You might stop by the new members forum and intro yourself if you haven't already. See you around!


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

jklotz said:


> Now I might get flamed for saying this (cut me a break guys, it's my 1st post), but it blows me away knowing that all I had to do to get a permit was to go down to city hall, get fingerprinted, fill out a few forms and give them $60. Never once was I asked what training I had or if I knew how to carry responsibly. Hell, they never even asked me if I had even shot a gun before!
> 
> Why on earth would some training or certification not be required to get a weapons permit? You need it to get a drivers license for God's sake. I just don't get it.


No flame intended here, but shouldn't a genuinely free man, which our Constitution was written to protect, take responsibility for his own safety, and have enough sense not to endanger the safety of those around him?

I'll grant you that there are a few knuckleheads out there with guns, that are dangerous to law-abiding citizens. But that is no excuse for the government to think it can or should remove rights from the rest of us. That same knucklehead is just as likely to injure you with a motor vehicle, yet we let him have one to do with as he pleases, after a very minimal amount of training.

Laws should punish those who infringe on the rights of other citizens - not try to prevent every possible bad thing imaginable from happening. That is too subjective and requires _someone_ to make a judgment he is likely not qualified to make, about the competency of others. It is already illegal to injure another person, whether accidentally or not, whether with a gun, or not, so let's just do a better job of prosecuting that, and let the subsequent 'deterrent effect' take care of the 'what if' part of the equation.

We don't need to further empower government in that regard, so that they can appoint more incompetent bureaucrats who will beat us over the head with nit-picking regulations that have already been covered with other laws.

:smt1099 Welcome to the forum, and congratulations for taking the responsibility to look after your own welfare. You will likely become more independent and less tolerant of government meddling, as you get more and more comfortable with protecting your own interests. If so, you will be a free-er man than you used to be. :smt023


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## jklotz (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the warm welcome. Bisley, I completely understand where you are coming from. I won't argue with you, the 2nd is what it is, and there is no going back now - the genies out of the bottle so to speak. IMHO, I don't think having to pass a simple test on the basic safety rules in order to get a gun, or permit for that matter, would be a bad thing. I suppose the argument to that would be the people who need it most probably already have guns, and probably aren't smart enough or even care to understand the rules to begin with. Which is what brought me here in the 1st place.

In the spirit of the original thread, I am taking responsibility for my own actions and am taking the proper training courses. In the end, personal responsibility is what it's all about anyway I guess...


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 again jklotz

Your going to be a good addition to this forum.

:smt1099


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## VasSigmeister (Jan 3, 2010)

Personally I don't carry a gun, why? I am only 19 and I am unable to do so. However, even though I personally don't carry I still see it as a huge responsibility for those who DO carry. Yes it is our right as Americans, thanks God, yes I think we should be allowed to. But that doesn't mean anyone and everyone. I know a lot of people who are old to carry, but if I knew they were, I wouldn't be too comfortable being around them. That said, it isn't my business whether or not they are carrying. I agree that it the carriers responsibility to take the necessary steps to be able to carry RESPONSIBLY.


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