# Shield 9 and 10 000 rounds



## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

I shot today the 10 000 round through my Smith&Wesson M&P Shield 9. It was a night game and 20 yard distance.
The 10 000 round was a Magtech 145 gr HP and hit a hear split left to the bulls eye.

Since I have the trigger upgrade that thing shoots like a champ. The Shield 9 my the best short barrel (3")pistol I have.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I know I sure as hell like mine.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

PT111Pro said:


> Since I have the trigger upgrade that thing shoots like a champ. The Shield 9 my the best short barrel (3")pistol I have.


OK, OK, OK - I'm convinced. I just ordered the Apex kit. I just found out that the G43 is not likely to cure the short trigger reach problem I have with subcompacts, so there's no point in buying another $500 pistol that I will have the same problem with.

But I read some of the Apex Tactical Trigger reviews and a couple of them said that it did help that problem considerably. That's all I need from the Shield to make it a 'keeper.' The sear tune-up I did helped, but it wasn't quite enough. This expense will raise the investment I have to make it cost more than what I would have spent on an XDs9 (that wouldn't have needed an upgrade). But, since I already own the Shield and have satisfied myself about its reliability and accuracy, this seems like the best route for me to take.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

@ Bisley
I had a big problem with that S 9 trigger. I complained a lot about it, here too. I figured out that the gun was made for some communists in the US. Late but I did.
The trigger job did do the job for sure but I did not replace the fire pin safety block. In my opinion was this not really necessary because after 10 000 rounds there is absolutely no issue anymore with the safety block at all. On the beginning when I bought the gun new, I could feel the fire pin block on the trigger when plying with it. After 10 000 rounds I don't feel it anymore.

I am known that I am not really a big fan of Rubber Made springload-trigger guns. But this little shooter I really like a lot. I like the thumb safety. No don't start a war about that. I like a thumb safety you and you may be not. I deal with thump safety since I know a gun and all my weapons, private, in the police and in two military set ups always had manual thumb safeties. For me is that so normal like breathing air. Pulling out the gun and before the gun is in horizontal position the manual safety is off and that regardless if the safety was on or off in the first place. It is an automatic procedure that was implemented into my Gene by several police and military drill sergeants. 

However it is. I like this little shooter even if I could carry other guns out of my gun safe. Beretta PX4c, M&P 9c, PT111Pro,.......... I really think that the Smith&Wesson hits the spot of satisfaction.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Ohh I forgott,
I sent yesterday 220 re-loads down the pipe. No issues.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I have over 2500 rounds thru mine.

Have you ever changed the recoil Spring. I believe I read a post on the S&W Forum a while back - claiming that S&W recommended a change every 5k rounds.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

?? Huh ???
They recommend a new recoil spring after 5k? I didn't know that. Well - yea - the slide pulls much better, lighter now than in the beginning. I thought that was positive. But however I will not change the spring before I have issues with it.

I have so far no issues with eject, load and fire any ammo that I feed that gun. I shoot the cheapest ammo that I can find and reloads too. I fire about 200 - 500 rounds with that gun every month, no joke. That is expensive if you only shoot TV Add-ware. So I feed this gun from 98 gr light weights all the way to the 147 gr. I shoot with the Shield 9 HP's, XTP's, FTP's FMJ, RHT brass, metal, alloy whatever form as long it is a 9X19 round.

I have to say that this little gun eats it all up without any hickup or complaint. As long as I don’t recognize any change and have no hickups with that gun I will not change a thing, not even if it is recommended.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

EVERY gun needs a periodic recoil spring change - even Glocks. The # of rounds before changing will change depending on the brand. But not many go past 5k rounds as the suggested change rate.

Eventually, you will start to have jams, and then you will HAVE to change it. However, it needlessly batters your frame if you let it go too far.

5k is still better than changing a recoil spring on a fullsize 1911 every 2000 rounds, or every 1000 or less for a smaller 1911.



PT111Pro said:


> As long as I don't recognize any change and have no hickups with that gun I will not change a thing, not even if it is recommended.


Sorry - but that's not really a good idea. Seriously. But, whatever....

I do know what I am talking about, though. You don't even wanna know how many different guns I have owned over the years...


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Huuummm Shipwreck,
You mean I should change the spring and even a GLOCK need that too?
I new that from my old Walthers, they need a spring every 3k or so. But than you really realize that. Mostly with issues like failure to eject. 
But that means also that I should have a new spring on my Taurus PT111Pro. No one on earth knows how many round that thing had shot already.

Hummm may be you right I should think about that and call my gunsmith. I wonder why he didn't tell me last time when we celebrated with a cup of coffee on the range the 10 000 round.
But I honesty have no issues so far with that gun at all.

But you alerted me now. Better I call the gunsmith.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, like I stated - on another forum someone claimed to ask a S&W rep, and they were told to change the recoil spring assembly every 5k rounds.

Beretta recommends every 3-5k on a Beretta 92. I do have one Glock now, but it's been years since I had multiple Glocks. I don't remember the rate to change it on a Glock. Glocks seem to go the longest out of any other gun brand. But yes, even a Glock will eventually need a new recoil spring. I think every 10k may be the recommended change rate on a Glock, but I can't say for sure....

You know how I feel about Taurus - but that's neither here nor there. But, given they quality isn't always as high as it is in other brands - if you have a Taurus and have no idea how many rounds is thru it... If you think it might have over 5k rounds, I'd change it if I were you.

I personally don't go in for used guns - but many people change out the recoil spring on a 1911 or a Beretta 92 whenever they buy a used gun. Cheap insurance. 

You COULD wait until you get some jams. Plastic frames seem to crack/break less often than aluminum framed guns do. But, I wouldn't wait until you start having jams, if I were you. Even at 2500 rounds, I plan to order an extra Shield spring soon, just to have it on hand for the future. 

I know on a Walther P99, 5k was the recommendation as well. I had a friend with on who shot competition shooting. He started to have jams, and he changed the spring and everything ran like clockwork again. He stated he had around 5k rounds thru it at the time.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Well - OK and thank you for mention it. 
The Taurus has for sure more than 10k through. No question. That pistol was in my trunk and every time we shot I took it out of the trunk.
I have friends that have like me, little shooting stands on the yard. So often when I visited them or they me, unexpected we went to the shooting stand and shoot some rounds. Often it became an evening long event where 500-600 round shot was absolutely nothing. Such none planed events are always the best.

But I have to check what happen. Every 2 years or so, all my guns go to the gunsmith (friend) and he checks all the guns and makes all necessary work on them. I usually don't even check his list what he had done to the guns.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Taurus doesn't sell many parts without sending in the gun. I would hope that they would sell you a recoil spring. Check gunsprings.com - but Wolf Springs doesn't make springs for every gun. Sometimes you have to buy it from the factory.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I like to keep extra recoil springs handy for all my semi auto pistols. If the guns came with captive recoil springs the entire assembly must be purchased and changed, for some guns there are non captive recoil rods and their respective springs available. In which case I have replaced the captive unit with a non captive one. This way you only change the springs and do not have to buy an entire assembly. Gunsprings.com sells non captive assemblies for some guns particularly Glocks. Which is an excellent package. You are also able to buy different weight springs for this type of recoil rod which are easily changed. I'm hoping that they will make them for Springfield's and others in the future. Brassstacker Industries also makes non captive units that have a screw on cap. They are more difficult to change the springs as you have to use lock-tite on the threads. You also have to compress the springs while holding down and screwing on the cap. Whereas the Gunsprings' unit you just put the springs over the guide rod and assemble the slide to the frame during a standard field strip/reassebly procedure. Of course with many guns this is not an issue as the springs slip right over the guide rod. I am not familiar with the Shield, but this may be worth looking into.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

I founfd out, that for Taurus there are no parts outside Taurus.

I called my gunsmith and he will order for me the recoil springs for the Shield and my PT. We are not sure but we think we have to send the Taurus in Dmd... because they don't sell parts. Will see if that is right or not.

I'm not carrying either one at the moment and took the PX4 compact out of the Safe to carry. 

But thanx Shipwreck to mention it before I damaged my gun.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, I think a call to Taurus is in order. I think there are SOME parts they will sell you, just not most of them. It would be idiotic to have to send a gun in for a recoil spring. Seriously. IF that is the case, my opinion of Taurus would get even worse, honestly. I would really bet that if you called Taurus yourself, they will sell you a recoil spring.

But no problem - let me know how much that Shield recoil spring ends up costing - I need to get one myself. S&W has some things that you can order on their website. Unfortunately, the recoil spring assembly for the Shield is not one of them. I just needa get around to calling them and ordering one myself


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

I let you know how we ending up on Taurus. The Shield spring shouldn't be any problem I'll think. 
But U're right. If I have to send the Taurus in for the recoil spring replacement, Taurus would be thrown out of my gun list. That would be the deal breaker for good on that product. I'm not even sure if I would send it in to Taurus, or sell it in the next pawn shop. 

I'll mean my guns get used - regularly. We are gun enthusiasts and love to shoot any manufacturer. If Taurus don't even send a regular maintenance part out without I have to send in the gun (that is not cheap at all and cost more than the spring) it will be definitely get replaced with a Bersa 9 and replace therefore the Taurus from the South American Shelve.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck:
I bought a used S&W CS45 in great condition. Not knowing how many rounds had been put through it, I decided to replace the recoil spring. I called Smith&Wesson and they told me the gun was no longer in production, which I already knew. They sent me 3 recoil springs free of charge, I didn't even have to pay for the shipping. I couldn't believe it, and received them 5 days later. They are the flat type and as far as I know no one makes them. I didn't really need this gun but I always wanted one and as of yet haven't seen too many of them around either at stores or at shows. I guess not too many people are getting rid of them? It came in it's original box with manuel and extra magazines.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

desertman said:


> Shipwreck:
> I bought a used S&W CS45 in great condition. Not knowing how many rounds had been put through it, I decided to replace the recoil spring. I called Smith&Wesson and they told me the gun was no longer in production, which I already knew. They sent me 3 recoil springs free of charge, I didn't even have to pay for the shipping. I couldn't believe it, and received them 5 days later. They are the flat type and as far as I know no one makes them. I didn't really need this gun but I always wanted one and as of yet haven't seen too many of them around either at stores or at shows. I guess not too many people are getting rid of them? It came in it's original box with manuel and extra magazines.


That was nice of them. I looked at gunsprings.com and didn't see that gun model listed as one they make for.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

PT111Pro said:


> I shot today the 10 000 round through my Smith&Wesson M&P Shield 9. It was a night game and 20 yard distance.
> The 10 000 round was a Magtech 145 gr HP and hit a hear split left to the bulls eye.
> 
> Since I have the trigger upgrade that thing shoots like a champ. The Shield 9 my the best short barrel (3")pistol I have.


I've been toying with the idea of getting an M&P Shield in 9mm or a Ruger LC9s Pro and am leaning towards the M&P. The Ruger has a far better trigger out of the box, but for the unique purposes I have the 'Pro' version of the LC9s would not work well for me. This is one gun that I would need to have with a settable external safety which means that the LC9s Pro is not the way to go. But the non-Pro has a magazine disconnect safety, which never appeals to me.

Anyway, that means I am now leaning towards the Shield but their triggers out of the box are not the best. I have five M&P's, one of which is their .22LR so that one doesn't count. All of my centerfire M&P's have had their triggers massage. Two have just the Apex USB and two have the Apex DCAEK with the stock OEM trigger spring in place (that's really the way to go to get a lighter trigger).

So tell me, which trigger upgrade did you do on your Shield? The Apex M&P Shield Carry Kit (#100-076) looks like the best one for my purposes.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The Apex kit I ordered is this one: *Apex Tactical Specialties Shield Action Enhancement Trigger and Duty Carry Kit Black 100-051*.

I should be able to report on it by next week, sometime. I have been a harsh judge of the Shield, so if this fixes the thing I have been complaining about, that might tell you something. I will have about $600 invested by the time I get it like I want, but it's either that or sell at a loss...or banish it to the back of the safe with the other 'step-children.'


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

SouthernBoy said:


> I've been toying with the idea of getting an M&P Shield in 9mm or a Ruger LC9s Pro and am leaning towards the M&P. The Ruger has a far better trigger out of the box, but for the unique purposes I have the 'Pro' version of the LC9s would not work well for me. This is one gun that I would need to have with a settable external safety which means that the LC9s Pro is not the way to go. But the non-Pro has a magazine disconnect safety, which never appeals to me.
> 
> Anyway, that means I am now leaning towards the Shield but their triggers out of the box are not the best. I have five M&P's, one of which is their .22LR so that one doesn't count. All of my centerfire M&P's have had their triggers massage. Two have just the Apex USB and two have the Apex DCAEK with the stock OEM trigger spring in place (that's really the way to go to get a lighter trigger).
> 
> So tell me, which trigger upgrade did you do on your Shield? The Apex M&P Shield Carry Kit (#100-076) looks like the best one for my purposes.


Have you tried a shield? Actually fired one?

I hated the old M&P trigger. S&W have changed the triggers that come in M&Ps now to be MORE "shield like." However - I recently got an M&P and just sold it last weekend. I couldn't stand it. I dry fired the hell out of it and got to where I could break the trigger without moving the sights. But when I am actually at the range - I can't make the bullets go where I want to. CLose, but not quite. I finally gave up after 3 range trips.

The trigger on that M&P WAS more like the Shield and not like the older M&P triggers - but I don't have that problem shooting my Shield.

So, what I mean to say is that the trigger on the Shield is a bit different than the ones on a standard <&P IMHO. I didn't feel like dropping over $100 on an Apex trigger for that fullsize M&P I had - just so it would shoot like every other gun I have. I didn't like it that much. So, I sold it. But, I think you may like the Shield more than you think, once you get to shoot one.

I was able to rent one 3 years ago, and I tracked one down 2 days later. They had just come out then, so they were hard to get. I hated M&Ps at that point, because of the older trigger. And, the guy at the range talked me into renting it - as I didn't really have any interest in the gun. After I shot it, I had to have one. I sold a Kahr PM9 the same week after I got the Shield. It had 1/2 the felt recoil as the Kahr, IMHO.

Now, in the past couple of months, I have switched to a larger carry gun (HK P2000), and stopped carrying my Shield daily. I wanted something with a few more rounds, and night sights. So, I bought the HK. But, I AM keeping the Shield.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Bisley said:


> The Apex kit I ordered is this one: *Apex Tactical Specialties Shield Action Enhancement Trigger and Duty Carry Kit Black 100-051*.
> 
> I should be able to report on it by next week, sometime. I have been a harsh judge of the Shield, so if this fixes the thing I have been complaining about, that might tell you something. I will have about $600 invested by the time I get it like I want, but it's either that or sell at a loss...or banish it to the back of the safe with the other 'step-children.'


I think that the only real difference between the kit you ordered and the one I am looking at is the trigger itself, which accounts for the increased price. I have not replaced the triggers on any of my centerfire M&P's since I actually like them. I've only done what amounts to a smoothing out of the trigger and a better break.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> Have you tried a shield? Actually fired one?
> 
> I hated the old M&P trigger. S&W have changed the triggers that come in M&Ps now to be MORE "shield like." However - I recently got an M&P and just sold it last weekend. I couldn't stand it. I dry fired the hell out of it and got to where I could break the trigger without moving the sights. But when I am actually at the range - I can't make the bullets go where I want to. CLose, but not quite. I finally gave up after 3 range trips.
> 
> ...


*"Have you tried a shield? Actually fired one?"*
No I haven't but I do have five M&P's, four of which are centerfire guns. They are all great shooters.

The first M&P I bought was in late 2009. It was my .40S&W 4.25" barrel standard sized gun. It is accurate as heck. I didn't like the trigger when I first got it because of the gritty feeling in the pre-travel. The break was fine. So I "worked" the trigger (just pulling it on an uncocked striker) over 6,000 times to smooth it out. Then a few years ago, I installed the Apex USB and that really made a big difference.

The heaviest trigger on any of my M&P's was a newer model M&P 9c. Out of the box, the weight was over nine pounds, which is far too heavy for an SD gun for me. In went the Apex DCAEK but I kept the stock OEM trigger spring. This resulted in a 5 1/2 pound pull and a very crisp break with that Apex hard sear.

M&P's are great guns and among the most accurate in my collection. My M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25" and my M&P 40 4.25" are tack drivers. Great handling and they hit to POA.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> I think that the only real difference between the kit you ordered and the one I am looking at is the trigger itself, which accounts for the increased price. I have not replaced the triggers on any of my centerfire M&P's since I actually like them. I've only done what amounts to a smoothing out of the trigger and a better break.


Yeah, reading the reviews, more than one commenter stated that the trigger change lengthened the trigger reach to a more comfortable distance for their large hands, which is the major issue for me. One even went so far as to say it made it feel like a 1911. I have my doubts about that, but if it made it feel like a Glock or XD trigger, I would be satisfied.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> PT111Pro
> I let you know how we ending up on Taurus.


OK - My gunsmith said Taurus send the recoils spring no Problem.

We talked a little about that issue. The most gun manufacturer recommend recoils spring replacement after 3000 rounds fired.
He said that is a good number but in today world not really true anymore. Material has changed and 3000 round is something out of the past. Like oil changes are recommended every 3000 Miles is a modern vehicle and with modern new oils and engines may be not necessary anymore. With the new engines and new oils you may need an oil change every 7500 miles, Europe for example recommends oil changes for Volkswagen and Audi every 10 000 miles, but we still change the oil every 3000 or if we get real off than every 5000 miles.

He said he measured my spring load on the recoil spring last December and both the Taurus and the Shield was still in the limits.
Now we change it anyway.

But I have to say, my Walther PPK, P-1 and 38 after about 3000 rounds you actually have problems.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

That is what I did:
http://www.amazon.com/Apex-Tactical...sim_200_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=15JGCHBMYDGW894V0FY2


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Bisley said:


> Yeah, reading the reviews, more than one commenter stated that the trigger change lengthened the trigger reach to a more comfortable distance for their large hands, which is the major issue for me. One even went so far as to say it made it feel like a 1911. I have my doubts about that, but if it made it feel like a Glock or XD trigger, I would be satisfied.


My M&P 45 full size with the 4 inch barrel had a heavy trigger when new (around 8 1/2 pounds). I had the store's armorer install an Apex DCAEK in it and that took the trigger down to 6.5 pounds. When I got it home and played with it a little, that trigger was still too heavy for my likes so I removed the Apex trigger spring and installed the factory OEM spring. Bingo, it now comes in at just under 5 pounds. But what's most amazing is the break. It does break like a 1911, best described as breaking a thin glass rod. Quite amazing. Great for range work but if I was going to carry this gun, I would be inclined to practice with it a lot before strapping it on my hip with the trigger it has now.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> Southernboy
> ..... but if I was going to carry this gun, I would be inclined to practice with it a lot before strapping it on my hip with the trigger it has now


Therefore that gun has a manual safety and if someone can handle that, it is absolutely no problem. 
Opinion off.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> Bisley
> I should be able to report on it by next week, sometime.


Good - let us know what you think about it.
I was a harsh critic on the shield too. Now I like it very much but one question remains. With the Trigger upgrade the gun goes definitely in the 500 Dollar range and would it be not wiser to buy a gun that fits in the first place?

I mean did I really want to spend 500 Dollar for that 3" barreled single stack gun and would I have bought it in the first place, when there would be a 500 Dollar price tag on it? Are there guns out there that fits and feels equal but get it right out of the box? What about the Springfield? I never shot the little of them but.... But I want a manual safety especially on the gun on my hip.

Well and than, If that would be a Taurus product, we would never hear the end of it. This treat wouyld have already 200 pages.


> SouthernBoy
> best described as breaking a thin glass rod. Quite amazing.


Well - yea, yea that how I would see it too. But it became a expensive gun this way.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> My M&P 45 full size with the 4 inch barrel had a heavy trigger when new (around 8 1/2 pounds). I had the store's armorer install an Apex DCAEK in it and that took the trigger down to 6.5 pounds. When I got it home and played with it a little, that trigger was still too heavy for my likes so I removed the Apex trigger spring and installed the factory OEM spring. Bingo, it now comes in at just under 5 pounds. But what's most amazing is the break. It does break like a 1911, best described as breaking a thin glass rod. Quite amazing. Great for range work but if I was going to carry this gun, I would be inclined to practice with it a lot before strapping it on my hip with the trigger it has now.


For me, with a subcompact, it's all about where the trigger_ finishes_. The ones that will work for me can not be determined by the trigger position before the pull. The Kahrs always look like they will work for me, as does the Shield. But, the break is too far back, so that my trigger finger has already traveled through it's optimal strength and leverage position, before the trigger breaks. That means that I can't feel the break, and my finger is in an awkward position, in which I can't follow through properly, i.e., I can't finish flat. If I try to compensate by putting my finger in to the first joint, I torque low-left and still can't feel the break or finish flat. The best I can do is to use the very tip of my finger, which crooks my finger so much that is no longer laying flat along the frame - still not conducive to accuracy or speed.

This is the reason I shoot CZ's well, even in the first shot DA mode. My CZ Rami can be compared side by side with the Kahrs or the Shield, and everything looks to be about the same size (except the width, of course, because the RAMI is a double stack). But the trigger engages sooner, and finishes further forward, so that I still have leverage and therefore a good feel for the break and the follow follow-through. This is also true for 1911s.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

PT111Pro said:


> I shot today the 10 000 round through my Smith&Wesson M&P Shield 9. It was a night game and 20 yard distance.
> The 10 000 round was a Magtech 145 gr HP and hit a hear split left to the bulls eye.
> 
> Since I have the trigger upgrade that thing shoots like a champ. The Shield 9 my the best short barrel (3")pistol I have.


Congrats on the 10k rounds. :smt068


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