# Trump needs to go



## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

He has mental health issues and if he's unable to recognize that he's in way over his head and resign, then he should be impeached. Mike Pence would make a good president (and subsequently save the Republican party).


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I've never been a fan of Trump. I was shocked that he actually won the office. I was sure that he was in the race just to shake things up a bit, speak his mind, and add to the mix. 

I agree, he's in over his head. My wife is an ardent Trump supporter, so much so, that when he came to our neck of the woods to speak, she and her son waited for hours in line hoping to get inside to see him. They didn't. 

Even so, she is now questioning his inability to keep his mouth shut if he doesn't have anything intelligent or relevant to say. I did like what he wanted to do for this messed up country of ours. It desperately needs some TLC and I was hoping that he would be the one able to turn things around. 

Anyways, it doesn't look good for him or us, as in this country. I'm not sure what to think. He keeps tripping over himself and you can only do that so many times until you get so tired from it, you can't pick yourself back up.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I was not a fan of Trump but I am impressed with how he has handled being opposed By the media, the Dems., the Rep., the lobbyists and all the money bags that lost their places at the government trough. He has foreign leaders worried about exactly what he will do unlike the do nothing that was in that office before. His biggest problem is the media has learned how to pull his chain. He was correct in his statements on Va riots several of the groups on both side came itching for a fight and the police did not keep them apart so the fights were on. The people who were there just to protest for and against the statues were caught in the middle. Jobs are improving, regulations are decreasing making the cost of doing business is getting cheaper.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

joepeat said:


> He has mental health issues and if he's unable to recognize that he's in way over his head and resign, then he should be impeached. Mike Pence would make a good president (and subsequently save the Republican party).


I agree with you about Pence and that any other of the Republican contenders would have been a better president except for maybe Kasich. I wanted either Cruz or Carson. Cruz being a true Constitutional Conservative to the core and Carson for his sound reasoning and temperament. But it was not to be.

Regarding Trump: Unless you're a psychoanalyst and have personally examined Trump it's not for you to judge whether he has mental health issues or not. Even then psychoanalysis is not an exact science as no one can really know for sure what's going on inside another's brain. Although some may be hoping for it, Captain Queeg he's not. You're just parroting what an openly hostile news media has been relentlessly drumming into your head 24/7. Propaganda works wonders when it's repeated often enough. You seem to be falling into that trap which is scary unto itself.

The national news media by and large hates this man's guts to no end, likewise the entertainment industry. They've been on a mission since the day Trump secured the Republican nomination to not only destroy his presidency but the man himself. In fact they helped him secure the nomination with the non stop broadcasting of his rallies and the massive crowds that turned out for them. While providing scant attention to his competitors. Thinking that he would be a push over to that criminal, pathological lying bitch, Clinton or even God forbid Sanders in the general election. I hope to Christ that he gets re-elected to a second term, if for nothing else to stick it to 'em good. Relegating the media and entertainment industry into total irrelevancy as they are the true enemies of the American way of life and Constitutional law.

As far as impeachment goes there has been no evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors to warrant that. If Trump were to have serious mental health issues as you say he more than likely would never have been able to run a successful business empire. Or secure the Republican nomination and go on to win the presidency over career and carefully choreographed politicians. Accomplishing that was no easy feat, in fact it was masterful. You've got to at least give him credit for that. He pulled off what many including myself deemed impossible. I never in my wildest dreams could have ever imagined him getting elected president.

I don't think that there's too many people out there that can handle all of the non stop bullshit and relentless persecution that has been directed towards him and his family. If he can put up with that he can put up with anything. Especially when dealing with our enemies both foreign and domestic. He's already gotten North Korea to back down from firing missiles towards Guam. His nomination and the confirmation of Gorsuch to the Supreme Court was a tremendous win for those of us who believe in Constitutional law. He has been true to his word in that regard and for shaming career politicians for not fulfilling the promises for which they were elected.

The Republican party will do okay. BLM, ANTIFA and radical leftist groups like that will succeed in bringing down the Democratic party for maybe generations to come. Peace through violence has been their MO. This does not sit too well with the vast majority of the American public. In a way I hope they keep it up, as it will continue the losses of the Democratic party at all levels of government.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

Most people who voted Trump voted to shake things up and try something different . This is things shaken up.


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

desertman said:


> ...You're just parroting what an openly hostile news media has been relentlessly drumming into your head 24/7. Propaganda works wonders when it's repeated often enough. You seem to be falling into that trap which is scary unto itself...


I knew I would be branded with that accusation when I posted. But no, unless you consider Fox News (which is all I watch) hostile news media. I totally ignore CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and NBC as they are totally biased as far as I'm concerned. No, I'm not falling into that trap.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)




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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

desertman said:


> I agree with you about Pence and that any other of the Republican contenders would have been a better president except for maybe Kasich. I wanted either Cruz or Carson. Cruz being a true Constitutional Conservative to the core and Carson for his sound reasoning and temperament. But it was not to be.
> 
> Regarding Trump: Unless you're a psychoanalyst and have personally examined Trump it's not for you to judge whether he has mental health issues or not. Even then psychoanalysis is not an exact science as no one can really know for sure what's going on inside another's brain. Although some may be hoping for it, Captain Queeg he's not. You're just parroting what an openly hostile news media has been relentlessly drumming into your head 24/7. Propaganda works wonders when it's repeated often enough. You seem to be falling into that trap which is scary unto itself.
> 
> ...


...All very well said.
I agree with all of your premises...all except your choices of replacement Presidents, that is.
Our points-of-view on Trump, and also on the media hoo-hah which surrounds him, all coincide.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Hmmmmmmm, we gave President Obama 8 years and we are done with President Trump in 7 months.....


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## yellowtr (Oct 28, 2016)

joepeat said:


> He has mental health issues and if he's unable to recognize that he's in way over his head and resign, then he should be impeached. Mike Pence would make a good president (and subsequently save the Republican party).


Impeached for what?

Name me one pol who is perfect. Is there anyone (Conservative), who is currently in office. that the media and liberals would not be attacking? Would you prefer another Bush who gave us endless wars we cannot win or refuse to win. How about another Truman who gave us Korea which is still a thorn in the side of the world.

Look, I was an early supporter of Dr. Carson and look at the heat he is attracting from the left. They have called him a white supremacist for goodness sakes.

And to top all of that, the majority in the house and senate refuse to support the president. And that includes all of us, the citizens of our great country.

We elected them and they ignore us. How does that make you feel?

On another note; I just saw in the news that another Navy ship has collided with a merchant ship with 10 sailors missing. Who is running the Navy? The keystone cops?

Bob


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

joepeat said:


> I knew I would be branded with that accusation when I posted. But no, unless you consider Fox News (which is all I watch) hostile news media. I totally ignore CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and NBC as they are totally biased as far as I'm concerned. No, I'm not falling into that trap.


Well unless you've been living in a cave somewhere and I doubt that you have. The relentless barrage of news against Trump is overwhelming more so than with any other president than I can ever remember. It's in your face 24/7 whether you pick up a newspaper, go on line, turn on the radio, whatever. Yeah, I mostly watch Fox but can't ignore some of the others. You have to know your enemies in order to defeat them.

I was never a Trump fan from the beginning as I've stated in my previous posts on this forum. His behavior during the primaries and towards his competitors was reprehensible. He was his own worst enemy and arguably still is. Him not being a polished politician may account for that. Plus he never had any core political beliefs. I voted for him once he secured the nomination as there was no other choice. Staying home on election day or voting third party was not an option.

But now that he's president we have to stand by him or at least give him the benefit of the doubt. Damming up his presidency for the next four years will dam up everything else including the nomination and confirmation of judges to the Supreme Court and federal judiciary. That is thee number one issue as far as I'm concerned as those judges will be on the bench and making law long after Trump has left office. The reality is that they are making law and not interpreting it. Although not their job, they do indeed legislate from the bench. Stopping the flow of illegal invaders and Obamacare will also be put on hold until the next administration. Which might very well end up being another Democrat. That's exactly what our enemies want. To bog this administration down in controversy. Forcing it to spend an inordinate amount of time defending itself against baseless accusations and investigations.

Even if Trump were removed from office involuntarily and Pence took over. Pence would always be associated with the Trump administration and I doubt that he would be elected president. Just as with Ford after the Nixon administration.


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

yellowtr said:


> Impeached for what? ...


Nothing yet, but the mueller investigation is nowhere near finished.

In seven months, instead of growing in the job he's continued to shrink. Sure the news media is against him, but instead of ignoring them and concentrating on his agenda he "counter punches" and attacks them back, as he does with anyone who disagrees with him, by calling them childish names. As a matter of fact, that's a perfect description of his behavior: childish. He may be a brilliant businessman, but as president and leader of the free world he's incompetent and needs to be replaced by a Republican who continues to support his agenda, but is competent enough to work with congress to get the job done instead of making enemies within his own party.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't see Trump taking a whole lot of advice from others, in regards to his personality. What might have worked in the business world, doesn't always work in the world of politics and politicians. 

As a businessman and having had things go his way almost all the time from the start, he's used to getting his way. Things are now very different and he's obviously having issues getting acclimated. Maybe he just needs more time? Who knows for sure? 

He very much needs a communications coach, way more than he needs a communications director. PC or not, there are times when you simply have to be, whether or not you want to be. Unless he finds someone who can fill that role and takes the advice of that person, he's going to continue to be his own worst enemy.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> *I don't see Trump taking a whole lot of advice from others, in regards to his personality. What might have worked in the business world, doesn't always work in the world of politics and politicians. *
> 
> As a businessman and having had things go his way almost all the time from the start, he's used to getting his way. Things are now very different and he's obviously having issues getting acclimated. Maybe he just needs more time? Who knows for sure?
> 
> He very much needs a communications coach, way more than he needs a communications director. PC or not, there are times when you simply have to be, whether or not you want to be. Unless he finds someone who can fill that role and takes the advice of that person, he's going to continue to be his own worst enemy.


Well that's the thing. When you're the CEO of your own company and are in charge of your own personal empire, you're the boss and whatever you say goes. Fortunately for our system of government we don't have a CEO or a king. But at 71 years of age Trump is pretty much set in his ways and is used to being surrounded by "yes men". He probably can't come to grips that it's not that way in politics.

However he is who he is. I guess that's better than someone who pretends to be something that they are not?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

joepeat said:


> Nothing yet, but the mueller investigation is nowhere near finished.
> 
> In seven months, instead of growing in the job he's continued to shrink. *Sure the news media is against him, but instead of ignoring them and concentrating on his agenda he "counter punches" and attacks them back*, as he does with anyone who disagrees with him, by calling them childish names. As a matter of fact, that's a perfect description of his behavior: childish. He may be a brilliant businessman, but as president and leader of the free world he's incompetent and needs to be replaced by a Republican who continues to support his agenda, but is competent enough to work with congress to get the job done instead of making enemies within his own party.


I never did like his childish name calling. But as far as the media goes it's about time someone has the guts to punch them back instead of cowering in fear of them. We don't need a president that placates an openly hostile news media, hostile to just about all things Republican that is. Contrary to the way they kissed the Black Militant's ass and worshipped the ground that he walked on. As for Trump, I guess it would be pretty hard for anyone to put up with all of their shit day in and day out. After all he's still a human being. The fact that he "counter punches" may have played a large part in his election. People are just sick and tired of their antics.

Constructive criticism is one thing, setting out to maliciously destroy someone is quite another. Something that the media is very good at. All they have to do is make an accusation and report on it relentlessly and the innocent are convicted in the court of public opinion long after the facts. The Mueller investigation will be nothing more than a media circus. Do you think that Mueller will investigate the Clinton's? The meeting on the tarmac? The destruction of tens of thousand's of e-mails? Corruption that goes all the way back to Whitewater? My God! There certainly is enough evidence to try and convict them. The Clinton's amassed a fortune while feeding at the public trough.

All Trump did was mention that he wanted to get along and work with Putin to establish a better relationship with the United States. The media glommed onto that with accusations that the Russians somehow colluded with Trump and rigged the election. As of yet there is not one shred of evidence to that. Yet they ignored it when the Black Militant told Putin that he'd have more "flexibility" with him after he was re-elected.

Objective journalism is a thing of the past. Our public educational system along with our colleges and universities are nothing more than indoctrination centers. Preaching Marxist ideology and churning out today's journalists along with those in the entertainment industry. Self loathing hypocrites who live a palatial lifestyle while pretending to care for the down trodden. How many journalists/celebrities do you see living amongst them?

The thing that irritates me to no end is that they think that we're all too stupid and don't have the capacity to remember all this shit. That they are somehow morally and intellectually superior to the rest of us just because they have some shitty degree in journalism.


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

joepeat said:


> He has mental health issues and if he's unable to recognize that he's in way over his head and resign, then he should be impeached. Mike Pence would make a good president (and subsequently save the Republican party).


You must be a PSYCHOANALYST ?


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks guys, for the feedback and spirited discussion. I won't be posting anything else on this topic.


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

joepeat said:


> Thanks guys, for the feedback and spirited discussion. I won't be posting anything else on this topic.


Well i guess you realized you were over your head 

It was fun


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

There is opinions on both sides and it does help to politely discuss issues and listen to other points of view then clearly state yours.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Nobody was harder against Trump than I was, during the run-up to the election. I was crushed when I realized that he would, indeed, be the Republican nominee. Anyone who researches my posts from that time would see that I voted for him with utmost reluctance, thinking that he would be impeached and Pence would be much better than Hillary Clinton. I never argued with any of his critics about the narcissistic personality, the half-truths, or the loud-mouth promises and personal attacks on anyone who disagreed with him.

It is now 9 months later, and he has endured a 'full court press' from 90% of the media, inaction by the Congress that was supposed to support him, and vicious daily assaults from the radical left. He has had brief periods in which he has acted like a more conventional president, and less tweeting gaffs than normal. After months of enduring endless unsubstantiated accusations, the best efforts of the entire Democrat party and a good many Republicans has so far yielded not one illegal act.

But most notable, to me, is that he has been working his ass off to keep his campaign promises. He has been hiring and firing continuously, and may have actually finally come up with a solid team of advisors who can keep him coloring inside the lines. My advice to those who hate him is to sit back and watch for a while, as objectively as possible. You may never like him (I likely will not), but he may actually be able to accomplish a handful of things that will slow our death spiral into the socialist abyss. Mindless criticism, without a viable alternative, accomplishes nothing. A bad president who accomplishes a few worthwhile things is much preferable to a 'good' president who just makes things worse. You can be the judge of what is worthwhile.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

Now you guy's are complaining about Mr. Trump! WTF! obama was/is a POS and not even on the same level as President Trump! Y'all just STFU! jmho


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Bisley said:


> Nobody was harder against Trump than I was, during the run-up to the election. I was crushed when I realized that he would, indeed, be the Republican nominee. Anyone who researches my posts from that time would see that I voted for him with utmost reluctance, thinking that he would be impeached and Pence would be much better than Hillary Clinton. I never argued with any of his critics about the narcissistic personality, the half-truths, or the loud-mouth promises and personal attacks on anyone who disagreed with him.
> 
> It is now 9 months later, and he has endured a 'full court press' from 90% of the media, inaction by the Congress that was supposed to support him, and vicious daily assaults from the radical left. He has had brief periods in which he has acted like a more conventional president, and less tweeting gaffs than normal. After months of enduring endless unsubstantiated accusations, the best efforts of the entire Democrat party and a good many Republicans has so far yielded not one illegal act.
> 
> But most notable, to me, is that he has been working his ass off to keep his campaign promises. He has been hiring and firing continuously, and may have actually finally come up with a solid team of advisors who can keep him coloring inside the lines. My advice to those who hate him is to sit back and watch for a while, as objectively as possible. You may never like him (I likely will not), but he may actually be able to accomplish a handful of things that will slow our death spiral into the socialist abyss. *Mindless criticism, without a viable alternative, accomplishes nothing. A bad president who accomplishes a few worthwhile things is much preferable to a 'good' president who just makes things worse.* You can be the judge of what is worthwhile.


That was very good, Bisley!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Blackhawkman said:


> Now you guy's are complaining about Mr. Trump! WTF! obama was/is a POS and not even on the same level as President Trump! Y'all just STFU! jmho


No, most of us have spoken the truth about President Trump. Now that he's president we are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and support him. He's a hell of a lot better than any Democrat that's for sure. In spite of my misgivings about him during the primaries, I certainly voted for him once he secured the Republican nomination.

I think most of us? At least I am, are sick and tired of the media pounding him into the ground over chicken shit little things. Just yesterday they pounded him for not wearing special glasses while glancing up at the solar eclipse. Shit like that. It's obvious they have an agenda and are on a mission. Both the leftist media and the former Black Militant in Chief are indeed far worse than Trump could ever be. They are the lowest forms of life on the face of the earth.

However Trump does have his faults. Refusing to acknowledge that is just as bad as his accusers. No one should just blindly follow anyone. Things like that are what got us into World War Two as an example. There are not too many public officials that I can place my faith and trust in. Governments are a monopoly and are accountable to no one. People will lie, cheat, steal and prostitute themselves to the lowest common denominator for some crummy little political office in their quest for power and control over the masses. It's becoming increasing hard to be able to weed out which ones are good and which ones are bad.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

We have had Frank Capra movies and others, for decades, about the idealistic dream of electing a president who is not beholden to the political machines that have always picked our candidates. The harsh reality is that Trump is the only one who has ever pulled it off. Even Teddy Roosevelt couldn't get elected without the party machinery. Now we see what it is like to have a president who is free to do what he said he would, and find out that he cannot, because the checks and balances require some help from Congress. He is not a king, nor a dictator - he still has to win consensus from the Congress. It would have been easier before the Democrats radicalized their party, but then he probably would not have won the presidency. He has about a year to figure out a way to bend the Congress to his will and get the legislation passed that he promised. The mid-term election results will either send a message to his opponents, or ruin him altogether. Without some help in Congress, he is pretty much finished with his agenda, and it will not have been his fault.


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

Bisley said:


> We have had Frank Capra movies and others, for decades, about the idealistic dream of electing a president who is not beholden to the political machines that have always picked our candidates. The harsh reality is that Trump is the only one who has ever pulled it off. Even Teddy Roosevelt couldn't get elected without the party machinery. Now we see what it is like to have a president who is free to do what he said he would, and find out that he cannot, because the checks and balances require some help from Congress. He is not a king, nor a dictator - he still has to win consensus from the Congress. It would have been easier before the Democrats radicalized their party, but then he probably would not have won the presidency. He has about a year *to figure out a way to bend the Congress to his will* and get the legislation passed that he promised. The mid-term election results will either send a message to his opponents, or ruin him altogether. *Without some help in Congress, he is pretty much finished with his agenda, and it will not have been his fault.*


I said I would not post again on this topic but I just have to chime in again. Call me a flip-flopper if you must.

I think it would be very much Trump's fault if he cannot enact his agenda. He HAS TO work with Congress to get things done, that's the way it always has been. The Senate is a deliberative body, meaning they just don't rubber-stamp what the president wants. The president therefore must work with Congress to gain consensus. Trump has so far shown not inclination to do so, but instead placing blame on the "REPUBLICANS" for not moving forward as fast as he would like. Instead of establishing a working relationship with Mitch McConnell, Trump faults him. One man, will not enact his will over the way the political process works. Congress is an equal body to the president, as is the Supreme Court. It's the system of checks and balances designed so that no branch of government gains too much power.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

joepeat said:


> I said I would not post again on this topic but I just have to chime in again. Call me a flip-flopper if you must.
> 
> I think it would be very much Trump's fault if he cannot enact his agenda. He HAS TO work with Congress to get things done, that's the way it always has been. The Senate is a deliberative body, meaning they just don't rubber-stamp what the president wants. The president therefore must work with Congress to gain consensus. Trump has so far shown not inclination to do so, but instead placing blame on the "REPUBLICANS" for not moving forward as fast as he would like. Instead of establishing a working relationship with Mitch McConnell, Trump faults him. One man, will not enact his will over the way the political process works. Congress is an equal body to the president, as is the Supreme Court. It's the system of checks and balances designed so that no branch of government gains too much power.


Trump was willing to sign any Obamacare repeal the Republicans could agree on - even the last one, which left a great deal of Obamacare in place. They still wouldn't pass it, after campaigning to completely repeal it, for seven years. You can't blame Trump for that.

ADDED LATER:

Furthermore, since you defend Mitch McConnell, the House and Senate passed approximately 50 different bills against Obamacare, between them...when they were absolutely certain that Obama would not sign them, yet they have not run them back through, since getting a president who would sign them. The last one was basically the same as one of those, but there were three Republicans who had voted for the same thing when they knew it would not be signed, who refused to vote for it. McConnell, who promised to stay and work through the August break, threw up his hands and sent everyone home.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

joepeat said:


> I said I would not post again on this topic but I just have to chime in again. Call me a flip-flopper if you must.
> 
> I think it would be very much Trump's fault if he cannot enact his agenda. He HAS TO work with Congress to get things done, that's the way it always has been. The Senate is a deliberative body, meaning they just don't rubber-stamp what the president wants. The president therefore must work with Congress to gain consensus. Trump has so far shown not inclination to do so, but instead placing blame on the "REPUBLICANS" for not moving forward as fast as he would like. Instead of establishing a working relationship with Mitch McConnell, Trump faults him. One man, will not enact his will over the way the political process works. Congress is an equal body to the president, as is the Supreme Court. It's the system of checks and balances designed so that no branch of government gains too much power.


Well we do have a 1st Amendment and you do have every right to change your mind and are free to chime in again. We all have changed our minds at one time or another. Besides this has been an interesting topic to discuss.

Indeed Trump has to work with congress and the senate to get anything done. You are 100% correct about our system of checks and balances.

However both congress and the senate had seven and a half years to come up with a viable alternative to Obamacare in the event that a Republican would be elected president. Instead and as usual they sat on their dead asses and did absolutely nothing. Why should they as they are not affected by it? Once Trump got elected they tried to cobble together a plan that was unacceptable to the American public and did absolutely nothing to lower not only the cost of healthcare but the astronomical rise and cost of health insurance. There was absolutely no excuse for this as the Republicans controlled both houses and campaigned on the repeal of Obamacare. This is one of the biggest domestic issues this nation faces. If something isn't done about it. The escalating and astronomical cost of healthcare will eventually bankrupt every man women and child living in this country. You can't blame Trump for congress or the senates inability to get anything done. The issue there is career politicians that can't relate to the problems of the people of whom they are supposed to represent.

Single payer would be an absolute disaster as the government would now be in control of making your healthcare decisions for you. Once the healthcare providers get their hands on public money the sky will be the limit. As far as the government is concerned, taxpayers are an endless resource of money. They can tax unmercifully and there is no accountability or incentive to be responsible stewards as to how that money is being spent. Why should they? They are a monopoly with no competition. They will never go out of business.

Trump as a businessman and as far as I can tell wants to run this country just as he would a business. The way he sees it is that if he fails the country fails, same for a business that provides a lousy service or a product that nobody's buying.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

joepeat said:


> I said I would not post again on this topic but I just have to chime in again. Call me a flip-flopper if you must.
> 
> I think it would be very much Trump's fault if he cannot enact his agenda. He HAS TO work with Congress to get things done, that's the way it always has been. The Senate is a deliberative body, meaning they just don't rubber-stamp what the president wants. The president therefore must work with Congress to gain consensus. Trump has so far shown not inclination to do so, but instead placing blame on the "REPUBLICANS" for not moving forward as fast as he would like. Instead of establishing a working relationship with Mitch McConnell, Trump faults him. One man, will not enact his will over the way the political process works. Congress is an equal body to the president, as is the Supreme Court. It's the system of checks and balances designed so that no branch of government gains too much power.


Let see the "republicans" were willing to pass repeal when they knew it would not be signed into law. The progressive traitors in the republican party like Claire McCaskey and John McCain to name two of them would not vote for repeal when they knew it would be signed. They are against the will of the people and should be tried for perjure for when they took the "Oath of Office".


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

Bisley said:


> Trump was willing to sign any Obamacare repeal the Republicans could agree on - even the last one, which left a great deal of Obamacare in place. They still wouldn't pass it, after campaigning to completely repeal it, for seven years. You can't blame Trump for that.


Yes, I am gonna blame Trump for that because the author of "The Art of the Deal" did virtually no deal-making. The president is expected to actively pursue his agenda and that means sometimes using pursuasion and consensus-building with members of Congress. Trump was too busy with his Twitter account to do much of that, if any at all.



Bisley said:


> Furthermore, since you defend Mitch McConnell, the House and Senate passed approximately 50 different bills against Obamacare, between them...when they were absolutely certain that Obama would not sign them, yet they have not run them back through, since getting a president who would sign them. The last one was basically the same as one of those, but there were three Republicans who had voted for the same thing when they knew it would not be signed, who refused to vote for it. McConnell, who promised to stay and work through the August break, threw up his hands and sent everyone home.


And since you're blaming McConnell, of course he threw up his hands and sent everyone home. He was getting no support from the president other than tweets.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Trump will be in Phoenix later today. Curious to see if he pardons Sheriff Joe.


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

desertman said:


> Well we do have a 1st Amendment and you do have every right to change your mind and are free to chime in again. We all have changed our minds at one time or another. Besides this has been an interesting topic to discuss.
> 
> Indeed Trump has to work with congress and the senate to get anything done. You are 100% correct about our system of checks and balances.
> 
> ...


The straight repeal of Obamacare was the easy part, it was the repeal-and-replace that was problematic. Maybe the Republicans didn't come up with a viable replacement because they figured that if Obamacare was repealed, the healthcare system would just revert back to what it was before. It was because Trump campaigned on repeal-and-replace that they had to cobble something together and fast (who really expected him to win?). I admit that Congress shares some of the blame, but Trump wasn't doing his part either. He was unwilling to do what elected officials are elected to do, work together to build consensus.


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

paratrooper said:


> Trump will be in Phoenix later today. Curious to see if he pardons Sheriff Joe.


What do you think?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I think probably not.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

joepeat said:


> The straight repeal of Obamacare was the easy part, it was the repeal-and-replace that was problematic. Maybe the Republicans didn't come up with a viable replacement because they figured that if Obamacare was repealed, the healthcare system would just revert back to what it was before. It was because Trump campaigned on repeal-and-replace that they had to cobble something together and fast (who really expected him to win?). I admit that Congress shares some of the blame, but Trump wasn't doing his part either. He was unwilling to do what elected officials are elected to do, work together to build consensus.


I don't disagree with most of what you are saying.

A straight repeal was, and still is, what is needed. The only replacement that is needed is something to cover those few that believe they are benefiting from Obamacare. Trump is responsible for adding on the 'replace' part, during the campaign, and that has complicated it, because it gives some Republicans an 'out' for not going along with repeal. But Congress is still obligated to their own constituents for repeal. After all, they are the ones who are being hurt by it - not those who never had it because they couldn't pay for it - they all voted Democrat, anyway. But, now the Republican leadership lacks the nerve to do it, for fear of being demonized for not protecting the poor, before they can come up with a plan to cover those who like their Obamacare. They have never learned that the demagoguery is going to happen, regardless.

As for Trump's having not made an effort to convince Republicans, I don't see that. Obviously, he did not convince them, but he was completely flexible about the replacement and said straight out that he would sign whatever they could pass in the Senate and reconcile in the House, and then take it up again after the budget deal was set. He had Pence and Reince Priebus working hard to bring conservatives and moderates together, and he was talking to them individually, as well.

I'm not really very comfortable being Trump's defender, but objectively speaking, he has done some things I like, and is trying to do much more that I think I will approve of. I'm just for giving him a chance to succeed, and not too many are doing that, at the moment.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

joepeat said:


> What do you think?


If I had to make a bet, I'm gonna say Trump* will *pardon the Sheriff. The Sheriff had a trial and he was found guilty. That decision should stand.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

FOX news is reporting that the WH *will not *take any action in regards to Sheriff Joe.

I wonder if anyone told Trump that? :anim_lol:


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I think probably not.


 I would tend to agree(pardon), I would be surprised.
Sheriff Arpaio is currently a free man. I don't think he's sitting in jail.
Have'nt been following to closely. 
A pardon wouldn't really serve a purpose at this point, other then giving the media something to twist and turn. ( chubby checkers ).


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Haven't- typo above. Lol 
**CNN**, opening theme song featuring special guest Rachel Maddow


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## shootbrownelk (May 18, 2014)

Hillary is the one with mental health issues, she blamed not only her own party for her loss, but she blamed everybody except the butcher the baker and the candlestick maker. She's nuttier than squirrel droppings.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Word is now, Trump will pardon Sheriff Joe. Trump didn't do it at his rally to avoid any kind of rioting. 

He'll wait until he gets back to the swamp and then do it.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Here's a novel idea....... How about everyone(We the People, media, congress, etc.) stop nitpicking away at President Trump and let him run out his term... Then either re-elect him(if he runs again) or vote against him.........

Every president this country has had was(did) good and bad........

Bottom line he is our president and it is time to move on and get done what is needed to be done.......


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Good idea. But... Naaaah.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)




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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The media, The establishment elitist, and the Big money donor class will never leave Trump alone because he did not beg their permission to become Pres. and does not publicly bow down and kiss their asses.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

In his latest tantrum, The Donald threatened to 'shut down the government' if Congress doesn't do what he wants. He and that Kim guy ought to understand each other; they're both spoiled children.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

hillman said:


> In his latest tantrum, The Donald threatened to 'shut down the government' if Congress doesn't do what he wants. He and that Kim guy ought to understand each other; they're both spoiled children.


True, but I _would_ like for somebody to actually do it, just to show everybody that the whole thing is a joke, anyway. Actually, I'm not even sure the President _could_ do it, since the House of Representatives holds the purse-strings.

On the other hand, I don't see much difference between him threatening it, and the Democrat leadership saying Republicans are doing it, or will do it. It is empty rhetoric on both sides, and it's only value is in who the media can convince is the devil.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I like the idea of the quote unquote government shut down. All nonessential sent home ( it should be without pay). It shows just how many excess employees we the tax payers support. All the unnecessary things the government is involved in that it does not need to be and how the budget could be cut back to easy the burden on all the tax payers. I say Shut It Down.


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## SteamboatWillie (Jan 24, 2013)

Trump is clearly not what people are accustomed to as a politician. But, in my opinion, things are moving in the correct direction to suit me. Just thinking about the world today, President Trump has:

Appointed Gorsuch to Supreme Court

Pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement

The stock market is at an all time high.

Border crossing by illegals is down

Real Estate market is up

US mfg. index is at a 33 year high

NATO announced Allied spending is up 10 billion because of President Trump

Given the above, I think he has done an impressive job in a short time considering the resistance he's encountered so far by the liberal press and the weak kneed, self serving politicians in Congress.

All in less than his first year.

Just the way I see the world...


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## Deadwood (Jun 27, 2011)

He is no politician and does not play politics. He calls them like he sees them, does not take any guff from the media who is anti Trump. Obama is a self centered politician who did this country no good.

Don't short change him, as he may surprise you.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

Girls, girls, girls! Go to you're room!


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## Bpx4st (Feb 21, 2017)

Deadwood said:


> He is no politician and does not play politics. He calls them like he sees them, does not take any guff from the media who is anti Trump. Obama is a self centered politician who did this country no good.
> 
> Don't short change him, as he may surprise you.


I read all the posts, just so I wouldn't be repetitive...& here, the last one, says what I basically was going to add. Lol.

He isn't the "norm" for politicians. They are used to the silver-tounged devils that usually grace the office of the President. Trump IS NOT that! Some things that he says, makes me wince because I can almost hear the backlash as he says them. Some things make me smile because I know they struck home with his opposers. As always though, he is definitely outside the box & unpredictable.

In his speach in AZ, he alluded to his advisors "suggesting" that he not mention names...& technically, he didn't...but he still got his point across with his "one vote" rhetoric. Some may think that is due to his "childish nature" or lack of Presidential decorum but I believe it's more to the point Deadwood stated & it's that unconventional take on politics, that won my vote for him. I'm sick of the lip service career politicians give, just to garner an office (Bill Haslam), & later, show their true colors. With Trump, what you see is what you get & I'm ready to let him make it or break it cause the same old shit ain't working.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Trump is very hard to read for most of us, because we didn't grow up in NYC.

He is a rich kid who went to military school, but didn't serve in the military. So, while he lived a life of privilege compared to the average person, he was from Queens which was supposed to make him a brawler, and his father made him work a little, too. Still, he was sheltered from a lot of things that other kids learned early on, and has been trying to fit in with working stiffs ever since he decided to get into politics.

I think that he has learned a lot since traveling the country and rubbing elbows with 'regular' people. I think he likes them and wants to be more like them in some ways, but he has had a long life of not having had the same experiences, and he guesses wrong sometimes about what pleases them. He seems to be growing, as a person, but it's hard to break life-long habits.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Good idea. But... Naaaah.


:goofy::smt116:smt039


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pic said:


> :goofy::smt116:smt039


I love it when the discussion stays within polite and rational boundaries.

Maintaining my own sense of strict decorum, I can only reply: :butthead:

:smt033


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I love it when the discussion stays within polite and rational boundaries.
> 
> Maintaining my own sense of strict decorum, I can only reply: :butthead:
> 
> :smt033


I realized talking politics can get ugly, in addition to the forum frowning upon it. 
This is a much better way to get your points across without breaking the rules , lol.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

How about Congress needs to go more so than President Trump....... :smt1099


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Cait43 said:


> How about Congress needs to go more so than President Trump....... :smt1099


Go where, exactly? :smt077

*Alternate Response:*
"Congress needs to go..."?
Isn't the congressional, um, rest room large enough to accommodate both the House and the Senate?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Not with these water flow restricted flush system some might escape before the third flush.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Here is the main problem with Congress:

There is no ideological debate between the extremes, so the conservatives and the moderates nitpick everything to death, between themselves.

The Democrat party has pretty much refused to debate anything on an ideological basis. Why? Because most of what they want is pure socialism, and they do not believe that they can sell that at election time. So, most of them scoff at the socialism label and try to change the subject. Bernie Sanders has been somewhat honest about what he stands for, but the party machine is against an overt display of socialistic intention, preferring instead the whisper campaigns and identity politics to destroy their opponents. 

Also, the mainstream of the Democrat party has fled, leaving it to the radicals. A great many have become Republicans, and now the Republican Party is having the debates within itself that used to take place in the halls of Congress, between Democrats and Republicans. As far as governing goes, the Democrats have become irrelevant, because they are too ashamed of their 'accomplishments' to tell the truth about what they have and have not done.

In a nutshell, we have one half of our Congress playing by Sol Alinski's 'Rules for Radicals' playbook, being supported by 90% of the media, while the other half debates among themselves about necessary legislation, and fails to find 50 votes for anything.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Bisley, I don't know how much of the preceding you got right, but the last sentence has the Ring Of Truth.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The " moderates" from the Democrat party are mostly left leaning and are pushing the Republican party more left of " center" instead of conservative ideas. The other problem is the power hungry / glory hounds demanding every one to cater to me.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

hillman said:


> Bisley, I don't know how much of the preceding you got right, but the last sentence has the Ring Of Truth.


Well, if you agree with the conclusion, to any degree, you must have some thoughts about how that situation was arrived at.

I am old enough to remember when there was still some debate, back and forth, between Democrats and Republicans. There was no particular 'stigma' attached to being either - it was simply a matter of disagreement about the methods needed to solve a particular problem. Now, there is not even enough debate to identify what the problem is, much less what the correct solution might be.

I blame Democrats for this. The only thing that the various splintered groups that make up the Democrat 'coalition' can agree on is that Donald Trump (or any other target they choose) is an ass and that all Republicans are conservatives, and everybody knows that conservatives are knuckle-dragging ********, at heart.

Basically, the Democrats just make excuses for why they cannot allow their opposition to speak...not helpful.


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## stonebuster (Jul 16, 2017)

SteamboatWillie said:


> Trump is clearly not what people are accustomed to as a politician. But, in my opinion, things are moving in the correct direction to suit me. Just thinking about the world today, President Trump has:
> 
> Appointed Gorsuch to Supreme Court
> 
> ...


Maybe so, but the country is experiencing the worst hurricane in at least 12 yrs and I'm quite sure Trump is responsible. No major hurricanes in the Obama years. BTW, I'll bet Trump is criticized for whatever response he has to the disaster in Texas.


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