# Manually dropping hammer



## ejamest14

Finally got my Pro TLE II LG and love it. Will hopefully put some pics up soon. Had a question about dropping the hammer when cleaning and safety checking the gun. Is it better to dry fire or to manually drop it? I have heard both ways and seen both ways done. Any feed back would help greatfully.


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## Shipwreck

Works fine either way. Just don't drop the slide on an empty chamber. Manually close the slide by hand.

Unless I'm doing dry fire practice on a 1911, and I need to drop the hammer, I typically just do it by hand.


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## Steve M1911A1

I keep the same problem at bay by always having a snap-cap in the chamber of a gun I'm not using.
Just before putting it away, I dry-fire a shot using the snap-cap. (You can't practice too much.)
If I check a gun to see if it's safe, my snap-cap pops out and proves that it is/was.
(For long-term storage, of course I remove the snap-cap, and I carefully drop the hammer or striker on an empty chamber.)


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## hunterfisher808

I was told by the old timers waay back when (I'm 55 yrs. young) that you should dry fire a 1911 vs riding the hammer down. The topic was about 1911's with trigger jobs, not sure if this applies to stock ones. I dry fire, as every 1911 platform pistol I've ever owned has had a trigger job.


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## hundojoe

I have that exact same gun and I absolutely love it, its my carry piece in a Galco Jackass shoulder rig. i had a few problems with it when it was new with FTE a few times, using Rem oil did not help, if you run into FTF or FTE problems switch to Shooter's Choice synthetic gun grease, it has made a world of difference, and the gun just feels smoother. Havent had any problems in 800+ rounds


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## clanger

never ride the hammer down on a 1911. 
horrible scary bad habit to get into. 

unlaod it, clear it and dry fire it WITH THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION.

if the hammer is down it should be empty. no mag etc.


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## GURU1911

*Dry firing*

Dry firing your fully assembled 1911 pistol, is completely safe & will in no way harm the weapon. However the following are considered serious no-no's to ever do to your or god forbid another persons pistol:
#1 dry firing the pistol with the slide assembly missing
#2 letting the slide slam shut violently while not loading ammo from the magazine
#3 dropping a round of ammo into the "ejection port" instead of from the magazine
#4 habitually carrying the hammer on "half-cock" instead of completely down forward to the frame or fully cocked & locked carried in a holster.


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## Steve M1911A1

GURU1911 said:


> Dry firing your fully assembled 1911 pistol, is completely safe & will in no way harm the weapon. However the following are considered serious no-no's to ever do to your or god forbid another persons pistol:
> #1 dry firing the pistol with the slide assembly missing
> #2 letting the slide slam shut violently while not loading ammo from the magazine
> #3 dropping a round of ammo into the "ejection port" instead of from the magazine
> #4 habitually carrying the hammer on "half-cock" instead of completely down forward to the frame or fully cocked & locked carried in a holster.


It is my experience that #2, above, is allowable *if* you hold the trigger tightly in the fired position, as the slide runs forward. The reason that #2 is a no-no is because it can make the hammer "bounce" and slip off of the sear, ruining your trigger-job. However, if you hold the trigger in its "pulled" position, the trigger's mass is subtracted from the equation, and that should be enough to keep the hammer from "bouncing."
Your #3 also is not an absolute. It does work. But it stresses the extractor unnecessarily, and sometimes you have to bang on the butt-end of the slide with your hand, to get it all the way forward. You can do it in an emergency, but you shouldn't do it as a normal event.

As to #4, it's more a problem of perception. Calling it "half-cock" is where the problem lies. _It is not a half-cock notch_, in the SA revolver sense. It's there merely to "catch" a falling hammer, should you be thumb-cocking or de-cocking. It is a "safety" holdover from cavalry times, when the trooper on horseback was supposed to be able to thumb-cock and thumb-de-cock whilst riding his horse.

(It is not my intent to argue with your dicta, but rather to point out that there can be exceptions to them.)


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## GURU1911

*To steve 1911a1*

Greetings to you from austin county, texas----god's country !!!!!!!
I have to agree with your in-depth technical comments regarding my personal list of no-no's with our favorite do-everything-well pistol.

However, my intent was to help provide basic handling information, to those shooters not as intimately familiar with mr. Browning's crown jewel, as you & i are.

Guru1911


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## Steve M1911A1

GURU1911 said:


> Greetings to you from austin county, texas----god's country...


Hey, *Guru*...
God may _live_ in Texas, but He _*vacations*_ up here in the NorthWet's Puget Sound islands.


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## GURU1911

*Mr. Steve1911a1*

God lives about 2 miles from willie nelson's house, on the banks of the blanco river. I sure he does prefer your geographical location when the summer hits hard in the texas hill country. God really likes tex-mex food, barbecue beef brisket & ribs at "the salt lick", shiner bock beer, stevie ray vaughn's music, & 2-alarm chili mix when he's really got a hankering for a real bowl of "texas red" with a big piece of my wife's made from scratch cornbread. Dad burn it----now i got myself all hungry !!!!!!!

As my texas jewish shooting buds would say: Shalom, ya'll & remember the alamo
keep em in the 10-ring kuz.

Guru1911


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## dforce

*dont let the slide come back with out a round in the chamber?*

new to the 1911, just got a ultra 11 today and put 150 through it. 1 stove pipe with umc remmington.
super accurate.
please explain why not to drop the slide with out a round in and confirm that dry fire is ok.?

thanks!


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## Steve M1911A1

Letting go of the slide, and letting it slam forward without a cartridge to feed and thereby slow it down, can jar the hammer loose from the pistol's sear and chip the contact surfaces of either or both parts.
So much for your nice, new trigger job.

One way to keep this from happening is to press the trigger, and hold it pressed, while you release the slide and let it slam forward. (Point the gun in an ultra-safe direction when you do this, please.)
Holding the trigger in its pressed position removes the mass of the trigger and the disconnector from the equation, which is enough to keep the hammer from being jarred loose.

*Do not do this trick over a full magazine.* If a cartridge feeds, and you then release the trigger and, thoughtlessly, press it again, you'll get a negligent discharge. That's sure to piss somebody off in a major way!

While it is probably OK to dry-fire a 1911, its firing pin likes to have something to hit against, to stop its forward travel.
I strongly suggest dry-firing only with a snap-cap in the chamber. That will properly stop the firing pin.
*Make very, very sure that it's a snap-cap.* A negligent discharge is sure to piss somebody off in a major way!


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## dforce

*thanks*

thanks for the help!
is the kimber ultra 1911 safe to carry concealed one in the chamber and safed? i think this is how the gun was made to carry.? what about the gun hitting the floor, god forbid!, in this condition is it possible for it to go off?


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## VAMarine

dforce said:


> thanks for the help!
> is the kimber ultra 1911 safe to carry concealed one in the chamber and safed? i think this is how the gun was made to carry.? what about the gun hitting the floor, god forbid!, in this condition is it possible for it to go off?


Is it an Ultra Carry, or an Ultra Carry II?

A series II Kimber has a firing pin safety to make it "drop safe"

Carrying condition 1 (cocked and safety on) is the preferred method, even without a drop safety. Dropping the gun with it cocked and locked is no more dangerous than dropping the gun with the hammer down. Without a firing pin safety or heavy firing pin spring/light firing combo the firing pin can travel via inertia if dropped and ignite a chambered round.

Here's a good article on the matter: Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous? and here's a video: YouTube - Conditions of Readiness for the 1911

As for "Made to carry that way" there's some debate on that, but it has become the way to carry it over the last 100 years.


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## Steve M1911A1

A defensive weapon carried with an empty chamber is about as useful in defense as a similar-size rock.

The 1911 was designed to be carried with a round in its chamber, its hammer fully cocked, and its safety lever up in the "on" position (except when carried by cavalry).
A proper holster covers the pistol's trigger-guard. Even if the safety lever is accidentally moved down to "off," the covered trigger precludes accidental discharge. Further, there's the grip safety.
In military tests, 1911s have been dropped, fully cocked, on concrete. No matter how they landed, their hammers did not fall.
(Should you have the misfortune to drop your pistol, _do not attempt to catch it_. It's much safer to let it fall, and to then pick it up carefully.)

When you present your pistol defensively, your finger should not contact its trigger until you are certain of your target, are certain of what's behind it, and are certain that you really do want to fire a shot.
Your thumb clicks the safety lever to "off" when the pistol is about halfway up, but after your two hands have met each other around its grip.

(Sorry, *VAMarine*, I was writing while you were posting.)


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## dforce

again, thanks for the help and info. i am fairly new to the concealed carry world and very new to the 1911, would you mind if i call on you with other questions in the future?

whats the gun your holding in the picture?


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## Steve M1911A1

Ask anything, any time.
The only stupid question is the one you thought was too embarrassing to ask.
It must never be allowed to seem embarrassing, to ask for help, advice, or further knowledge.

The pistol in the photo is the Semmerling LM-4 that I inherited from my mentor, Mike Harries (of the Harries Flashlight Technique).
It is the smallest .45 ACP repeater ever made—a little smaller than a Kel-Tec P3AT (although thicker).
It is not a semi-auto. It is manually operated (usually with the off-side thumb). Its barrel pushes forward and back, to eject and reload. It holds six shots.
It is exceptionally accurate, in part because of an excellent, light, DAO trigger. (Mike could make small 5-shot groups at 50 yards with it. I'm not anywhere near that good.)


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## VAMarine

No worries Steve, I'm sure that between the two of us we could each write three pages on the topic and each have a little something different in it that the other omitted. :smt1099


Can never have too much info from multiple sources.


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## CoastieN70

Although it is true that dropping the slide on an empty gun can cause the sear to bounce and screw up a custom trigger, this applies mainly to "race guns" with delicate trggers and it would take on heck of a lot of slide dropping to screw up an "normal" trigger.

That being said there is another reason for not dropping a slide on and empty gun, the Barrel Lugs! The constant slamming on and empty gun WILL crack a barrel lug or at the very least make their lock-up sloppy! I know there are those who will doubt this but without a round being stripped the slide slams home with so much force that lugs in the barrel and slide SLAM like a hammer to a wedge of steel. The action of stripping a round slows this operation dramaticly so as not to beat the lugs to death...


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## VAMarine

To help out Coasite's statement I will quote Hilton Yam from the 10-8 1911 Users Guide



> Always ease the slide down on an empty chamber, never slam it shut from slide lock. A G.I. rack grade 1911 may do fine when you slam the slide on the empty chamber, but a gun with a tuned trigger and fitted barrel will do better without it. The jarring of the slide slamming down on an empty chamber can cause the hammer to follow and the sear nose to crash into the hammer hooks. Your trigger job will last longer if you ease the slide down. Further, the lower lugs on a match fit barrel take a lot of impact when they contact the slide stop, and without the buffering effect of the round feeding into the chamber, you increase wear on your barrel by slamming the slide on an empty chamber. It's not the end of the world if the slide drops on an empty chamber, but it's not a good habit to develop either. It is the sign of an amateur 1911 handler.


Wilson Combat will also tell you the same thing if you ask.


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## propellerhead

All these Don'ts make me think less of the 1911. Don't do this. Don't do that. Jeeze.


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## Steve M1911A1

OK, I'll add another "don't":
Please don't think badly of the 1911. After all, it's 100 years old.

Any carefully-tuned tool requires careful handling.
Think of a well-set-up pistol as something like a well-set-up skinning knife.
You wouldn't normally cut through heavy rope with a skinning knife, would you? You wouldn't use it to crack bones. You wouldn't normally carve wood with it.
All of those are "don't"s.

Would you use an unloaded Glock as a hammer?


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## yeti

ejamest14 said:


> Finally got my Pro TLE II LG and love it. Will hopefully put some pics up soon. Had a question about dropping the hammer when cleaning and safety checking the gun. Is it better to dry fire or to manually drop it? I have heard both ways and seen both ways done. Any feed back would help greatfully.


Just ensure the chamber is empty...point muzzle in a safe direction and pull the trigger to drop the hammer. 
As the guys have already said, DO NOT release the slide onto an empty chamber. That is a good rule of thumb for all pistols, not just 1911's.


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## Steve M1911A1

...Not only that, but you could take the occasion to dry-fire a practice shot: Front sight. Trigger press.
You can never get too much practice!


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