# Cetme or AR (.308 or .223) ??



## Buckeye

OK lets start by saying I know absolutely nothing about assault rifles. I've fired a couple (Bushmasters and G3s) in my day but up until Hurricane Katrina I didn't think a civilian had any real need for one (and I couldn't own one anyway in my jurisdiction). Well now, if they really lift the assault rifle ban in Columbus I might just have to get acquanted. Have a friend who swears that .308 Cetme's have it all over AR-15's but they're getting scare. I'm looking more for practicality/dependability. So can the more knowledgeable here help lay it out for me? The rounds, the platforms, optics (useful pimpin goodies) , ammo availablity, cost, accuracy etc. etc. 

Thanks!


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## Shipwreck

If not for my PS90 that I just had to have, I'd buy an AR. U can set one up for not TOO much money, if U want. Or, U can go crazy and spend a lot of cash too 

I was looking at the tactical S&W AR - Had i not like the PS90 when I fired it, I would have gotten one. I'm not gonna get into caliber wars (of course, the Ar's round is stronger), but I like the PS90 because its quieter, hardly any recoil (U could shoot it 1 handed if necessary), much easier to clean, and a 50 round mag. I think its a great home defense weapon if the SHTF :smt166 :smt166 :smt166


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## scooter

One other point
Military 5.56mm ammo(basically .223) will be all over the place (at almost any fallen US fighter), if any armed conflict occurs on american soil ,dunno if you can say the same about .308 ammo?


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## tony pasley

I have both 7.62x51 and 5.56 both platforms and a couple more platforms. I personally like the 7.62x51 because of the round is better for longer distances. The 5.56 is more available rounds and mags. Both have many accessories that can be added at will. You might want to split the difference and go with an A-10 ar platform in .308 cal.


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## rfawcs

AR-15 - more options available; less expensive, more plentiful surplus ammo; easier to shoot well (less recoil, lighter)

.308 rifle - more hitting power; surplus ammo difficult to find anymore

If you choose a .308 caliber rifle, the FAL is easiest to clean and maintain, durable, reliable, and extra magazines are cheaper. An M-1A probably is most accurate at long range.

Scour the boards at AR-15.com http://www.ar15.com/ , FN/FAL.com http://www.falfiles.com/index.php , and HK.com http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi for more info. Good luck!

You'll get many opinions - these are mine.


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## js

rfawcs said:


> AR-15 - more options available; less expensive, more plentiful surplus ammo; easier to shoot well (less recoil, lighter)
> 
> .308 rifle - more hitting power; surplus ammo difficult to find anymore
> 
> If you choose a .308 caliber rifle, the FAL is easiest to clean and maintain, durable, reliable, and extra magazines are cheaper. An M-1A probably is most accurate at long range.
> 
> Scour the boards at AR-15.com http://www.ar15.com/ , FN/FAL.com http://www.falfiles.com/index.php , and HK.com http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi for more info. Good luck!
> 
> You'll get many opinions - these are mine.


+1

Can't be said any better than that...

Also, .308 ammo is pretty expensive.


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## A_J

+1, rfawcs pretty much sums it up. 

I would add that with the huge AR15 community and aftermarket industry, you're going to have a lot of resouces available for learning and exploring the possibilties of the AR. Not that the CETME/FAL community isn't big too - but it's nowhere near the AR. As an example, just about every gun show I go to has a decent selection of AR parts and goodies. Plus, the AR is like LEGOs in a way - swap out uppers on the fly, mix and match parts for a CQB rifle, or make it into a longer-range varmint rifle, or..

Spend some time on AR15.com looking at the photo threads and you'll be dizzy with the options.


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## Buckeye

Thanks for all the advice keep it coming.

Congrats to Scooter for the most disheartening scenario I've heard so far. I wouldn't expect the homeland to be invaded except by maybe China, maybe in concert with Russie sometime far into the future (even then they'd probably just nuke us and we'd have to take it to them).


scooter said:


> Military 5.56mm ammo(basically .223) will be all over the place (at almost any fallen US fighter), if any armed conflict occurs on american soil


...lots of terrorism S-could-HTF though...in which case law and order might break down and I might need to be able to defend the house or block from bands of thugs...unless of course ALL the Muslims decide to rise up and take America from the inside, at which point, I would hope the _thugs_ would be on my side and we'd all be hunting _towels_.
:smt1099 :smt076


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## swamprat

AR15 hands down. For the reasons already listed.


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## Revolver

Within this country, .30-06 Springfield is considerably more common with .308 Winchester not close behind. It is my belief that an accurate .308 rifle is more practical than the 5.56/.223(unless varmint is your game). So many more uses out of the .308 and it's not that expensive to load.

I've learned this from experience, but do not fire mystery military surplus(M885 and M193 is what I had the misfortune of trying) ammunition through your AR. I will never again use surplus in anything short of a bolt-action. You'd be better of with Wolf. Wolf has never harmed my rifles(though some report extractor issues with the steel-cased ammunition). The problem is with the milsurp is that the loads tend to not be consistent, sometimes overpressured(and I'm talking a Wylde chamber). It was so bad that I noticed it while firing. I could hear that buffer slam and it bent the buffer retainer.

You would be much further ahead to buy quality ammunition or load your own. Your rifle will thank you.

If I could have all the money I invested into the AR15 back, I'd go with the AR10. I love the design of the rifle but I have no real use for a round other than as a plinker(Yes, I'm one of those people that like to have as many uses out of my rifles as I can when I spend that much for them).

The AR platform is very accurate and ergonomic. There is a plethora of aftermarket parts and accessories for it so you can modify it to your heart's content. What I like most about the platform is the buffer system. It makes the recoil smooth and soft.


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