# Shotgun Question



## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

I hunted with my uncle's shotguns years ago but never owned one & I'm thinking of one for home defense. I don't know a lot about them mechanically & researching lead me to an online thread about leaving them loaded. (pump style) I read a debate about leaving them loaded a long time weakening the spring & they won't feed. Theory but no proof. I'm 95% sure that's incorrect since people have been doing that for decades. My 45 magazines still work after years of staying loaded & it's still hard pushing in that last round. The cycling is what weakens springs, not staying compressed over time & same should apply to any metal spring I would think. Or is something different about the tube feed spring in a shotgun? Maybe just in cheap shotguns from certain other countries?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

My Remington 870 shotguns have all been 100% reliable and that has been the only model shotgun I have owned.
Unless there was a compelling reason not to, they have all been fully loaded at all times. (They were unloaded during transport in most cases)
Some of these 870s were sporting extended mag tubes from the after market, never an issue with them either.
I do close the action on an empty chamber and engage the safety, which requires two specific actions to make it deadly.
It is stored in a secure accessible location.

GW


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Good to know. I'll do the same, closed action & safety on. Just waiting now on my local stores to get their stock up. Emptied out now.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Some shotguners will decock their firing pin springs. I think the same theory applies to magazine springs, doesn't hurt the springs.
The difference would be an easier visual with mag springs vs firing pin springs.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

With shotguns there is a decent argument against storing them with a loaded chamber, which is that most have a floating firing pin. If a shotgun gets knocked over or dropped it has more chance of producing an unintended/negligent discharge, than most handguns.

In a pump or semiauto shotgun the “most ready” condition I feel comfortable with is what has been termed “Cruiser ready”. This would be with the magazine loaded, but chamber empty, hammer down. 

So chamber and mag is verified to be empty, action is closed, trigger pulled, then mag loaded. To ready, the action is cycled.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

SSGN_Doc said:


> With shotguns there is a decent argument against storing them with a loaded chamber, which is that most have a floating firing pin. If a shotgun gets knocked over or dropped it has more change of producing an unintended/negligent discharge, than most handguns.
> 
> In a pump or semiauto shotgun the "most ready" condition I feel comfortable with is what has been termed "Cruiser ready". This would be with the magazine loaded, but chamber empty, hammer down.
> 
> So chamber and mag is verified to be empty, action is closed, trigger pulled, then mag loaded. To ready, the action is cycled.


Yes sir, just as GW suggested , keeping the action closed I'm assuming it's to keep out foreign matter,,,,,is there another reason I'm not aware of ?
I know hunting guns in vehicles require an open chamber , ar least when I'm in NY STATE,

Hey !!! HAPPY FOURTH, 1212 am on the east coast


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SSGN_Doc said:


> With shotguns there is a decent argument against storing them with a loaded chamber, which is that most have a floating firing pin. If a shotgun gets knocked over or dropped it has more change of producing an unintended/negligent discharge, than most handguns.
> 
> In a pump or semiauto shotgun the "most ready" condition I feel comfortable with is what has been termed "Cruiser ready". This would be with the magazine loaded, but chamber empty, hammer down.
> 
> So chamber and mag is verified to be empty, action is closed, trigger pulled, then mag loaded. To ready, the action is cycled.


My only quibble would be that on an 870, which I am most familiar with, in order to chamber a round, you have to depress the slide release. Some folks, might not be aware.
Combine that with the safety being engaged, you need to manipulate the slide release, cycle the pump, and disengage the safety in order to use my gun against me.
I can accomplish that blindfolded in a hurry. YMMV

P.S On the other hand, you could figure out that the safety is on and disengage it, pull the trigger on an empty chamber, cycle the action and shoot me if I was busy making a sandwich.
GW


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

I can recall at least two manufacturers, I want to say Remington and Winchester stating in their manuals not to leave the shotgun tubes fully loaded for extended periods of time due to magazine spring fatigue. Take that for what it's worth.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldwing said:


> My only quibble would be that on an 870, which I am most familiar with, in order to chamber a round, you have to depress the slide release. Some folks, might not be aware.
> Combine that with the safety being engaged, you need to manipulate the slide release, cycle the pump, and disengage the safety in order to use my gun against me.
> I can accomplish that blindfolded in a hurry. YMMV
> 
> GW


This is why I specified "hammer down" or "dry firing" after verifying chamber and mag are empty. After that, loading the magazine. With the hammer fired, the slide/bolt release does not need to be manipulated.

this was also a reason, for action closed aside from keeping debris out of the action.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

denner12 said:


> I can recall at least two manufacturers, I want to say Remington and Winchester stating in their manuals not to leave the shotgun tubes fully loaded for extended periods of time due to magazine spring fatigue. Take that for what it's worth.


I can see that, especially with a semi auto


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

pic said:


> Yes sir, just as GW suggested , keeping the action closed I'm assuming it's to keep out foreign matter,,,,,is there another reason I'm not aware of ?
> I know hunting guns in vehicles require an open chamber , ar least when I'm in NY STATE,
> 
> Hey !!! HAPPY FOURTH, 1212 am on the east coast


Action closed, keeps debris out of the action, but also allows the hammer to be dropped on an empty chamber, which keeps you from having to depress a slide release In order to cycle the action.

Also, caution should be exercised if you cycle the action or open it once the mag is loaded, as you will end up placing a round on the shell lifter.

laws vary from state to state on loaded firearms in vehicles. Know your laws in the state you are in.

in WA, a rifle or shotgun may not be transported loaded inside a vehicle. That includes having a loaded magazine in the firearm. Handguns can be transported loaded if you have a Concealed pistol license.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SSGN_Doc said:


> This is why I specified "hammer down" or "dry firing" after verifying chamber and mag are empty. After that, loading the magazine. With the hammer fired, the *slide/bolt release does not need to be manipulated.*



This is why I prefer to keep the hammer back, slide locked on an empty chamber, and safety engaged. 
It makes it harder for someone who does not own this shotgun to fire it. YMMV

GW


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldwing said:


> This is why I prefer to keep the hammer back, slide locked on an empty chamber, and safety engaged.
> It makes it harder for someone who does not own this shotgun to fire it. YMMV
> 
> GW


Got ya. I think I read your first reply too quickly and thought it could be too confusing under stress to manipulate the release and the safety.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Doesn't the majority of pumps have a slide release button ( can't keep up with all the technology ), not sure about the hammer either, my heads spinning, lol. Someone turn the switch off. Lol.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I will see about slowing the rotation for you @Pic.








This is my $200 pawn shop 870. It is sporting a scabbard that keeps it protected while still very handy.








This one has a Wilson Combat 2 shot mag extension, Marbles fiber optic bead sight, a Super Sling and up to seven rounds (loaded chamber) of #4 buckshot. At present it has a 19.5" cylinder bore barrel.








When the action is closed on an empty chamber, the slide release must be pushed upward in order to work the pump and chamber a round. Also if the safety is engaged, (the button on the left) it must of course be disengaged before going to work.
Since I have been carrying these shotguns for nearly 48 years, I can manipulate these controls quickly and without any hesitation.
Edit: The trigger will also release the slide of course, but having the safety on along with an empty chamber will slow down someone who is unfamiliar with the gun.
GW


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Interesting, I didn't even know shotguns had slide releases but it makes sense to have them.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

The Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 series shotguns are probably two of the more common shotguns used in the "defensive" role.



The 870 has the slide release forward of the trigger guard, and a cross bolt safety that is at the rear of the trigger guard. This means one with smaller hands usually has to move their strong hand forward to release the slide and depending on dominant hand side, may be required to push the safety to the fire position with a different finger than the index finger.



The Mossberg 500/590 shotguns have the slide/bolt release behind the trigger guard where it can be depressed by the middle finger being lifted up, and the safety is at the tang of the receiver, on top, where right or left handed shooters would operate it the same direction. (Forward to fire)



Both shotguns have good reputations for being durable, and reliable. Navy/Marine Corps had been running the 500/590 most of my career, so I feel comfortable running it, though I've trained on the 870 as well.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Goldwing said:


> I will see about slowing the rotation for you @Pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lmao, thank you, very nice pictures. Nice shotgun, one of best out there.
Did you have to change out the spring when you added the Wilson extension ? 
Great idea with the extension.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

pic said:


> Lmao, thank you, very nice pictures. Nice shotgun, one of best out there.
> Did you have to change out the spring when you added the Wilson extension ?
> Great idea with the extension.


Very nice, great setup.
Appreciate the pics


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

pic said:


> Did you have to change out the spring when you added the Wilson extension ?


Wilson Combat provided a longer spring with their very nice mag extension. I recommend it highly.

GW


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

BTW, it takes about a minute to install my 28" modified choke barrel and head to the trap range. After four 25 shot rounds my average is right at 80%.

GW


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Goldwing said:


> Wilson Combat provided a longer spring with their very nice mag extension. I recommend it highly.
> 
> GW


Nice, it was a good maintenance move along with a greater tubular mag capacity.
Spring change out with added capacity, a two fir one


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Goldwing said:


> BTW, it takes about a minute to install my 28" modified choke barrel and head to the trap range. After four 25 shot rounds my average is right at 80%.
> 
> GW


Shooting from five stations, five rounds each.
80 % is very good. Your buddies are probably NOT gonna give you any advice, if you're out shooting them ( kidding )


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SSGN_Doc said:


> The Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 series shotguns are probably two of the more common shotguns used in the "defensive" role.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My buddies as a kid turned their noses up at Mossberg shotguns. Back then most 870s were "Wingmasters" with beautiful bluing and woodwork. Mossbergs not so much.
I'm sure that the Mossbergs are fine guns, I've just got a thing for 870s.

GW


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldwing said:


> My buddies as a kid turned their noses up at Mossberg shotguns. Back then most 870s were "Wingmasters" with beautiful bluing and woodwork. Mossbergs not so much.
> I'm sure that the Mossbergs are fine guns, I've just got a thing for 870s.
> 
> GW


A Wingmaster is a beautiful thing. One of my friends had one, growing up. I was pretty jealous of it. My Express is still built solid, but not as smooth as that Wingmaster.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

Babbalou1956 said:


> Interesting, I didn't even know shotguns had slide releases but it makes sense to have them.


More specifically, a bolt release.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

denner12 said:


> More specifically, a bolt release.


With a pump style feeding system. Only the pump action.

I think. Lol . Is that right DENNER??


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SSGN_Doc said:


> Action closed, keeps debris out of the action, but also allows the hammer to be dropped on an empty chamber, which keeps you from having to depress a slide release In order to cycle the action.


I gave this some pondering, if you drop the hammer on an empty chamber on an 870, the slide mechanism is free to be moved on purpose, or unintentionally.
On the other hand, with the hammer back on an empty chamber, the slide is locked in position until the trigger is pulled or the slide release is pressed. Unless I am at the trap range, my action is closed. I prefer to park mine in this condition.

GW


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

pic said:


> With a pump style feeding system. Only the pump action.
> 
> I think. Lol . Is that right DENNER??


On a modern shotgun, technically there is no slide per se, but indeed there is a bolt. As such, the proper term is a bolt release. Same with an AR-15 or any semiauto rifle, there is a bolt release but no slide release as you would find on a semi-auto pistol. Hell, I could be wrong but I dont think so.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Another Wikipedia BS App?


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I keep my two shotguns empty, but with the butt cuff ready with six rounds of #2 buck. Granted, I don't use them as a primary home defense gun.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I have changed my 12 gauge game up a bit. The 870 is still a great gun and I would recommend them highly. 
I have however purchased a gen one Benelli SBE (Super Black Eagle) for a fraction of its' value.
For those who are unfamiliar, the SBE is a semi-auto inertia driven system rather than a gas operated system.
The inertia system is very reliable in comparison with the gas system and is much lower in maintenance since it is much cleaner. 
This example of a SBE has a 28" barrel with a Nordic +7 mag extension, which can hold up to 12 rounds of 2 3/4" ammo.
I installed a Super Sling and a bit of picatinny to hang a work light on for late night skunk patrol.
It stays in a ready condition, but is much different from the 870 concerning bringing rounds into battery. I will just say that those who are unfamiliar might think the gun is broken.








With 28" of barrel this is not too handy for tight quarters, and at 10.2pounds with ten rounds in the mag and five more on the stock this thing is a beast that can send over half a pound of lead downrange in a couple of seconds.


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## Bullseye (May 14, 2007)

We have no kids in the home, and I keep my 500 loaded with a couple of rounds. Its been my HD shotgun for a little over 20 years. I'd prefer to keep it fully loaded, but I've never wanted to keep the spring fully compressed over all that time for the obvious reasons. I keep more shells in a pouch right next to it in the bedroom, plus six in the saddle, and I can load it quick. If were not home, it goes in the safe, along with a couple of handguns that I keep out for HD purposes also.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Bullseye said:


> We have no kids in the home, and I keep my 500 loaded with a couple of rounds. Its been my HD shotgun for a little over 20 years. I'd prefer to keep it fully loaded, but I've never wanted to keep the spring fully compressed over all that time for the obvious reasons. I keep more shells in a pouch right next to it in the bedroom, plus six in the saddle, and I can load it quick. If were not home, it goes in the safe, along with a couple of handguns that I keep out for HD purposes also.



















Compressing the springs should not be a concern. 
Nice rig.


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