# First and only pistol, need advice!



## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

Applying for a special exemption to own a handgun in the U.K (After all pistols were banned in 1997) could do with advice on buying a .44mag revolver as I will not be able to change it easily if I am permitted to buy one. Looking at a Ruger red hawk or a Smith and Wesson classic model 29. Intend to carry while hunting for protection against dangerous preditors and would also like to shot shotshells against mambas / cape cobras when in Africa. Any help is welcome (Nobody in England has a clue)


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## rockhill (Jan 11, 2008)

The combination you describe would closely fit the Taurus Judge. It however is a .45 /.410 shot combo, not a 44mag. i do not know of any 44mag pistols that will also fire a shot shell.

Good luck


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2008)

The Ruger Redhawk with a 4" bbl would be an excellent revolver for carry and will last a lifetime. The 4" BBL will give the powder a chance to burn out and the weight won't be excessive. I'm guessing you don't reload so obtaining 44 Shot loads could be problematic. If you have a source then the Redhawk would be a good choice. If not I'd load you up some but don't know how I could legally get them to you.

The Redhawk is at the top of my got to have list.

Good luck.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

It sounds to me like the Taurus Judge is what you're looking for as well. This is all assuming you have .410 shot shells available.

-Jeff-


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## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks for the reply, I reload for all my rifles and will proberly do the same for the .44 mag. Seen a article on making your own shotshell for the .44 mag when I google'd 44 mag shotshells.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

also maybe if you google snake shot loads
you might get a hit


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## Snowman (Jan 2, 2007)

I wouldn't get a Judge if it was going to be my only gun. If you can get .44 shotshells (I call 'em "snake shot"), then there's no need for a .410. Either the Ruger or Smith would be excellent.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Both are great guns but I believe only the S&W comes with a lifetime warranty.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Ruger Redhawk with 4" barrel or a S&W .44mag Mountain gun with a 4" barrel. They will last a life time and are proven guns. Good luck.


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

ruger and s&w both make fine 44mag revolvers, just choose the one that you believe fits your hand the best.altho i would choose a 357mag instead that way you could also use 38spcl in it.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2008)

A bit off topic but once you obtain the handgun will you be able to store it where you wish?


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I vote for the Smith & Wesson. The Ruger is a tuff working mans gun and will do duty but the S&W is both tuff and a work of art. If you're only gonna have one then that's my choice. That or a Colt.
I've been over the pond and visited your beautiful country. Great people for the most part if you don't act like an ugly American.


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## themayer78 (Jan 23, 2008)

Another vote for the Smith here. I've never shot the Ruger but a friend just got a 4" S&W .44 MAG. Very nice, VERY powerful gun.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

The Ruger is my choice, but I don't think you'd go too far wrong with either. More details in your similar "New to the Forum" area posting.


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## Alaskan_Viking (Jun 13, 2006)

Only one handgun? Go for the .500 S&W!!


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## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

Unfortunately I think theres more chance of a snowball in hell than the authorities over here letting me have a 500, although it would be great if I could! The standard policy is to allow a two shot pistol in a max cal of .32 but Im trying to gain a .44mag revolver on special grounds.

Thanks for you reply everyone! Its very difficult to gain good information where only a handfull of people are lucky enough to be able to own pistols!


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## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

If I get the consent to buy a pistol I can store it at home but only in a police approved safe and I might even have to have a alarm linked through the telephone to a police station. Its rare to to allowed to have a pistol in the U.K now, just got to put my case forward and see!


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## rockhill (Jan 11, 2008)

NITROEXPRESS said:


> If I get the consent to buy a pistol I can store it at home but only in a police approved safe and I might even have to have a alarm linked through the telephone to a police station. Its rare to to allowed to have a pistol in the U.K now, just got to put my case forward and see!


Interesting to know that about the UK laws. especially since our supreme court was hearing a case concerning our right to keep and bear arms, a right inherited from English law...


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

Alaskan Viking:
on what basis do you make that statement?

handloading?

460 mag now has several commercial loads to chamber the 460? Many 45LC; 454; and 2 or 3 460mag commercial loads


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2008)

Nitro:

Let us know how you make out with the exemption and be sure to share your african adventures with us as well.

Good luck


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I see recommendations in this thread for .44 Mag, 50-caliber, and all kinds of huge stuff like that.
Since you might have only one chance to buy one gun, I suggest that you think about two important issues: controllability and portability.
Are you an experienced pistol shooter? (I'd bet the answer is "no.") Will you have lots of opportunities to practice with your new pistol? (I'd bet the answer is "no" again.)
Shooting big-bore, high-power pistols is an art unto itself. It isn't easy. Do it wrong, and it hurts. Let it hurt, and you'll develop a flinch that will make accurate shooting almost impossible.
One way to help control this problem is weight: get the longest barreled, heaviest pistol you can find. Its mass will absorb some of its recoil.
However, you will have to carry this monster somewhere on your person. And ammunition. For all-day walks through difficult country. While also carrying a rifle and its ammunition. That militates for a smaller, more lightweight gun.
I'm sure you see where this is leading.
Are you going to try to kill a lion with a pistol? Or an elephant? Or a rhino?
Or is it for personal protection, just in case?
Maybe you don't need a .44 Magnum, after all.


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## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

*Update on my application*

Back in 2008 I ask for some advice with regards to purchasing my first (and only) handgun and looking back at the posts I thought I would send a update (although very late).

I managed to put my case forward well and after a few meeting I was allowed to by an unrestricted (meaning not retricted to one or two shot) revolver in .38sp / .357mag. After a some research on the internet I bought a Smith & Wesson .357 PD in eight shot. The main reason was the light wieght scarium alloy and titanium cylinder which makes it much easier to carry around all day.

Thanks for the advice - I will have to get some pictures posted.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Congratulations on getting the government's permission to defend your life...under certain specific circumstances, I'm sure.

I would really be interested in hearing about the process that you had to go through, since many in our present government would like nothing better than to impose that very same sort of tyranny against its own citizens.

You have probably already developed your snake load, but I have found that a good .38 Special snake load is 5.0 grains of Unique, under 7-1/2 lead shot, using cardboard for wadding, a roll crimp, and a couple drops of Elmer's Carpenter's Glue for a moisture seal. For .357 magnum cases, you could get a little more shot in, which I imagine would be comforting, if confronted by a mamba.


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## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

My whole case for gaining the special exemption for owning a handgun was to humane dispatch of wounded deer, farm livestock and vermin (rats) in confined spaces. I also wanted to use the handgun abroad (mostly africa).

Laws in the U.K were changed after a terrible instance were by a handgun owner turned his firearm on a school of young children. To be fair there was an understandable public outcry but this led into a complete ban of public ownership of handguns by law abiding citizens. Years on from that day and armed crime is on the increase as criminals dont care about the law but definition!

The technical stuff about the exemption can be found using this link:-

Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997

Talking about snake shot, I use a .357maxim case and slightly bottle neck it using special die I bought. A scoop of Blue Dot from my lee power dipper set (5gr I think ive been using), a wad I cut from a corn flakes box (using a wad punch from midway), shot (from a 12 gauge cartridge) crimp from another special die ive got and bobs your uncle. I was told you can use a gass check but Im sticking with cardboard for now. A .410 S&W govenor would be much better but it was hard enough to get the .357.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

NITROEXPRESS said:


> ...Laws in the U.K were changed after a terrible instance were by a *handgun owner* turned his firearm on a school of young children...[emphasis added]


Dunblane, I believe?
I think that wasn't a handgun, but rather an "assault rifle."
Am I wrong?


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## NITROEXPRESS (Mar 21, 2008)

Dunbane was handguns, Whitehaven was the latest with a .22 semiauto in 2010 - I hope that they use common sense this time or we will be heading toward no public ownership of any firearm or shotgun in the U.K. You just cant legislate against crazy people, tight laws are fine, total bans are not.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I wouldn't get a Judge if it was going to be my only gun. If you can get .44 shotshells (I call 'em "snake shot"), then there's no need for a .410. Either the Ruger or Smith would be excellent.


S & W makes the "Govenor" which is a knock off of the Judge. Don't forget that they both shoot .45 long colt and .45 acp with moon clips. The .45 long colt is not that far off from a .44 magnum.

I would venture to say that the S & W is a better weapon than the Taurus.


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

Packard said:


> EDIT The .45 long colt is not that far off from a .44 magnum.
> I would venture to say that the S & W is a better weapon than the Taurus.


How far off is not that far off? Just curious, as I have always considered the .44 mag. to be a MUCH more powerful round than the .45 LC. Edumacate me please. Yeah agreed, [email protected] over the Taurus.
Eli :mrgreen, but I really wouldn't want either one myself.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Not only is .45 "Long" Colt almost exactly equivalent to .45 ACP, but *Eli* is correct that both are a far, far cry from .44 Magnum.

But if you're going to fire .45 "Long" Colt cartridges, or even .45 ACP, why would you need a Judge or a Governor?
• The long, long cylinder makes both .45 cartridges less effective, robbing both velocity and accuracy as the bullet passes through.
• And if you want to occasionally fire snake-shot from your pistol, you can buy .45 "Long" Colt and .45 ACP shot cartridges.
• Further, .410 shotshells, even the ones purposely loaded for self-defense, are pretty weak and wimpy, and won't reliably stop a fight. And firing them through a pistol's short barrel robs them of a good deal of the little power they have to begin with.

The Judge is a gimmick. The Governor is a "me too" gimmick.
The one thing that both of them are good for, is parting you from your money.

If you think that firing a shot cartridge absolves you from the practice necessary to become an accurate pistol shot, think again.
No matter what comes out its front end, a pistol is a pistol; and, unless you practice, a pistol is difficult to shoot accurately, effectively, and well.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Not only is .45 "Long" Colt almost exactly equivalent to .45 ACP, but *Eli* is correct that both are a far, far cry from .44 Magnum.
> ...


It's been a long time since I've held a .45 L.C. cartridge in my hands, but if memory serves me well:

The bullet weights are similar to the .44 magnum
The casing size is sufficient to load to magnum pressures

The guns that were available were not able to handle the magnum pressures. I am fairly certain that there are some modern guns from Ruger and others that are capable of handling magnum pressures. In which case the .45 L.C. will yield similar results as the .44 magnum.

Addendum: According to the Speer quote within this link the .45 LC in plus P pressures is about midway between .44 magnum and a .45LC. A .45 LC with standard pressures will drive a 225 grain load about 1,000 fps. Federal's 225 grain in .44 magnum drives the bullet at 1,280 fps. See: http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Packard said:


> It's been a long time since I've held a .45 L.C. cartridge in my hands, but if memory serves me well:
> 
> The bullet weights are similar to the .44 magnum
> The casing size is sufficient to load to magnum pressures
> ...


I venture to say that if you want to shoot .44 Magnum cartridges, get a .44 Magnum pistol.

The point to which both you and I were referring, had to do with using .45 "Long" Colt cartridges in a Judge or Governor.
You stated that .45 "Long" Colt, _in that situation_, was a close equivalency to .44 Magnum power.
That is, of course, absolutely untrue.

1. Do not hand-load .45 "Long" Colt cartridges to .44 Magnum power-and-pressure levels, for use in either a Judge or a Governor. It's a good way to lose a hand or two, and maybe an eye or two as well.
2. Just because you _can_ load .45 "Long" Colt cartridges to .44 Magnum power and pressure, doesn't mean that you _should_ do so. Most guns won't take it.
3. Factory-supplied, normal-pressure .45 "Long" Colt cartridges are equivalent to .45 ACP normal-pressure cartridges. Factory-supplied .45 "Long" Colt "+P" cartridges are a little more powerful, but not anything like .44 Magnum full-power loads.

Please be careful: Giving bad advice can get someone maimed, or even killed.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I venture to say that if you want to shoot .44 Magnum cartridges, get a .44 Magnum pistol.
> 
> The point to which both you and I were referring, had to do with using .45 "Long" Colt cartridges in a Judge or Governor.
> You stated that .45 "Long" Colt, _in that situation_, was a close equivalency to .44 Magnum power.
> ...


Blathering nonsense.

Re-loaders have to measure out powder. They need to look up the amount of powder to measure out on a re-loaders chart. These charts provide all the warnings required. No where did I mention what pressure to load to, what powder charge to use or give any specific instructions.

What I said was that the limitations of the round were the weapons used and not the round itself. The manufacturers of factory ammon need to load to pressures of the weakest weapons out there for liablity reasons. A reloader is not restricted by those constraints and can reload to the levels that his weapon is capable of.

The .45 LC can be loaded to magnum levels; whether it is wise to do so is the decision of the reloader in reference to the weapon he is loading for.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Arguing with a fool is pointless.
I'm outta here.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Arguing with a fool is pointless.
> I'm outta here.


Consistent with your on-line demeanor. Anyone who disagrees with you is a fool.


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