# Different grains bullet are used for what?



## kramden (Dec 25, 2015)

I'm new to being interested in handguns (Thanks to our president). Interested in 9mm. I see there are 115 grain and 124gr. I know these are weight differences but what is best for what??? Targets, hunting or self defense? Thanks for your input.


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## miketx (Jul 20, 2015)

Simply, heavier bullets are slower than lighter bullets. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. There's probably not much difference in 115 gr and 124 grain, but on my carry 1911, the typical range available is 185 gr to 230 gr. 

FYI, there are 7000 grains in a pound.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

kramden said:


> I'm new to being interested in handguns (Thanks to our president). Interested in 9mm. I see there are 115 grain and 124gr. I know these are weight differences but what is best for what??? Targets, hunting or self defense? Thanks for your input.


There is also the 147gr available in 9mm. Then you need to consider hollow point or full metal jacket. Luckily there is a wealth of info on the internet. Gun forums, Youtube, etc. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## rxnb90 (Nov 29, 2015)

Hi Kramden,

Grains is a unit of measurement used both for the weight of the bullet and the gunpowder load.


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## kramden (Dec 25, 2015)

Thank you!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

kramden said:


> *I'm new to being interested in handguns (Thanks to our president).* Interested in 9mm. I see there are 115 grain and 124gr. I know these are weight differences but what is best for what??? Targets, hunting or self defense? Thanks for your input.


Great information given by the others. Just another suggestion: Join the NRA and don't forget to vote accordingly.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

One important thing different bullets weights will do is to change the Point Of Impact (POI). Often times you can raise, or lower the POI by merely changing the bullet weight, since a heavier bullet will stay in the barrel a microsecond longer, allowing the muzzle to begin to rise before the bullet leaves the barrel.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...Also, in personal self-defense, a heavier bullet, necessarily travelling more slowly, will be more likely to remain within its, um, target when it hits.
Faster-moving, lighter bullets, particularly of small diameter (like 9mm), are frequently "guilty" of passing all the way through without stopping.

Fight-stopping damage is caused, more than anything else, by the transfer of energy from bullet to target.
A bullet that merely passes through the target transfers less energy than does a bullet which comes to a complete stop within it.
This is why some self-defense experts recommend using heavier bullets whenever possible.

Hollow-point bullets are designed to expand within the target, thus causing even a light, fast-moving bullet to stop and deliver all of its energy.
They work most of the time, but not always. (Conclusion: Use a heavyweight hollow-point bullet, if possible.)

There's also a brand-new concept emerging: An extremely lightweight bullet of a very special shape, travelling at very fast velocity, not only finally stops within the target, but also, because of its shape, greatly disrupts internal flesh and organ material within the target.
At this time, it is not known whether or not this new bullet will actually effect quick fight-stops. It is, so far, an unproven technology.


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## kramden (Dec 25, 2015)

Interesting feedback, thanks!


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## berudd (Jan 22, 2016)

rxnb90 said:


> Hi Kramden,
> 
> Grains is a unit of measurement used both for the weight of the bullet and the gunpowder load.


You're not intending to say that when you purchase 115gr 9mm it means the load also uses 115gr of powder are you? 115gr of power a A LOT OF POWDER. I reload 12 ga shotgun shells and typically use between 14 - 19 gr of powder depending on powder and load. I doubt that's what you intended to say but wanted to clarify in case anyone might have read it that way.

To the OP, unless we refer to a specific round we can only speak in general terms. So, in general and within a specific caliber lighter bullets travel faster than heavier bullets. They also recoil less. Some times you can get more energy on target with heavier bullets but in glancing at some 9mm ballistics that seems to not be the case here. Heavier bullets also are less affected by wind and lose less of their initial velocity at longer ranges. And as noted above, since they are traveling slower will drop more at identical ranges. But, that's much more relevant when considering longer ranges like you would see with rifles.. A heavier bullet may penetrate better since a heavier object is harder to stop than a lighter one. Also, in expanding, lead core bullets there is almost always some level of fragmentation when the bullet expands. So, if you start with a larger bullet your likely to end up with a larger terminal projectile if is loses some material on impact. This will ensure better penetration.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

berudd said:


> ...So, in general and within a specific caliber lighter bullets...also recoil less...


This is not necessarily true.
It depends upon a few other factors. For instance, one of those is bullet velocity.

Generally speaking, a 125-grain-bullet, 9mm military-pistol load will present a similarly powerful recoil impulse to that of a military 230-grain-bullet, .45 ACP load.
It may also be a surprise that the 9mm load will subjectively seem to recoil more, since its recoil impulse is delivered more abruptly than is that of the .45 ACP.



berudd said:


> ...Heavier bullets also are less affected by wind and lose less of their initial velocity at longer ranges...


...And this is at least as much an issue of the bullet's shape as it is of a bullet's weight.
A 405-grain, 45-caliber bullet will lose its velocity much more quickly than will a 175-grain, 30-caliber bullet. Their ballistic coefficients are very different.


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## berudd (Jan 22, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> This is not necessarily true.
> It depends upon a few other factors. For instance, one of those is bullet velocity.
> 
> Generally speaking, a 125-grain-bullet, 9mm military-pistol load will present a similarly powerful recoil impulse to that of a military 230-grain-bullet, .45 ACP load.
> ...


All very true but keep in mind I said in general and within a specific caliber. Once you compare two different calibers you introduce other variables and it "in general" becomes even less so. Since the OP is curious about different bullet weights for 9mm adding how a .45 compares to it is somewhat off point. And I'm sure we can find examples where the differences I mentioned don't hold true but they tend to be exceptions. Again, that's why I stated in general and didn't say those things will always be true.


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## Freethought (Jan 10, 2016)

berudd said:


> All very true but keep in mind I said in general and within a specific caliber. Once you compare two different calibers you introduce other variables and it "in general" becomes even less so. Since the OP is curious about different bullet weights for 9mm adding how a .45 compares to it is somewhat off point. And I'm sure we can find examples where the differences I mentioned don't hold true but they tend to be exceptions. Again, that's why I stated in general and didn't say those things will always be true.


 Actually no it isn't , comparison of a given 185 grain .45 acp loading to a given 230 grain loading is quite similar to a comparison of 115 grain to 147 grain 9mm parabellum.

That said , *weight* is not the only thing that has an effect on a given slugs performance , projectile construction plays a *huge* factor in terminal performance at the target.


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## dereckbc (Jan 2, 2016)

Here is a newb opinion. You need two ammo types. One cheap one for practice, and one expensive type for self defense.

For practice ammo either 115 or 124 grain Full Metal Jacket. Assuming you buy quality ammo should cost 19 to 22-cents per round if you buy in Bulk. Good rounds are CCI Blazer Brass and Winchester White Box as an example. 

Self defense ammo is much more expensive, from 40-cents per round up to over $1 round. You not need to buy a lot of self defense ammo as it is highly unlikely you will ever us it. Having said that you do need to shoot some rounds to get the feel of it as most Self Defense ammo is loaded HOT. The HOT rounds are easy to spot as they have +P in the description.


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## Freethought (Jan 10, 2016)

dereckbc said:


> Self Defense ammo is loaded HOT. The HOT rounds are easy to spot as they have +P in the description.


 Not necessarily , there is perfectly useful and effective self defense ammunition that's not loaded to plus P spec and that isn't loaded what I and many others would consider " hot".

And example in .45 acp would be found in your basic HydraShok , which though nowadays is considered by some to be " old tech" has proven itself many times over.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

dereckbc said:


> ...You need two ammo types. One cheap one for practice, and one expensive type for self defense...


True. BUT...
The best way to practice, I believe, would be to use practice ammunition which very closely approximates (or even duplicates) both the point of impact and the recoil impulse of your self-defense load.
That way, your well-practiced body is already used to whatever you're going to feel, if you ever have to shoot to save your life.


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## no7sec2 (Mar 14, 2016)

I have been researching this as well. I understand about physics and opposite reactions, but, in 9mm, lighter bullets seem uncomfortable to shoot as well as heavy ones. Control is my problem; muzzle flip makes it very difficult to re-acquire the target. And I have difficulty with grip due to damage to my hands ( I'm missing some fingers on my right hand). The recoil can be painful. I read today that lighter bullets are snappier, and 147 grain "pound" my hands more. My gun is a CZ 75 compact clone.


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

As a general rule:
Use the light stuff if you're just fooling around or just learning what your trigger feels like, developing drawing muscle memory, pistol breakin, etc. It's easier on your hands and most likely cheaper. However, expect cheap results from cheap ammo. More so the younger your gun is.

Heavier ammo is usually more lethal.

Now, having said that; for self defense choose the weight bullet you can control the best because bullet placement trumps everything else including bullet type, weight, _everything._ Secondly, you need to be able to recover from the first shot as fast as possible. So if the first shot is so brutal it delays you too long to place an *effective* second shot, then something has to change. This is where choosing bullet weight and its effect on recoil comes in. It's a system or a package and you have to look at it like that.

I carry a .45ACP and I used to carry 230g bullets. But now I'm older and I have shifted down to 185g bullets for control.

Once you've determined which weight bullet you can handle WELL, the pick out which brand defensive ammo you want (Critical Defense, Hydra Shock, etc) and shoot enough of it to make SURE its 100% reliable in your gun. If it isn't, try another. Again, bullet placement trumps any magic, over hyped bullet.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

no7sec2 said:


> I have been researching this as well. I understand about physics and opposite reactions, but, in 9mm, lighter bullets seem uncomfortable to shoot as well as heavy ones. Control is my problem; muzzle flip makes it very difficult to re-acquire the target. And I have difficulty with grip due to damage to my hands ( I'm missing some fingers on my right hand). The recoil can be painful. I read today that lighter bullets are snappier, and 147 grain "pound" my hands more. My gun is a CZ 75 compact clone.


The muzzle flip that you experience is a product of bullet velocity, as well as bullet mass.

Have you considered learning to shoot using your left hand as your "strong side," and your right hand as the support?
One of the people against whom I once competed had a damaged right hand (although he had all of his fingers). He shot left-handed even though his right eye was the "master" of the two. He was as good as I, and even slightly faster.
There are many techniques, some of them pretty simple, for very effectively using opposing master hand and master eye.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

high pockets said:


> One important thing different bullets weights will do is to change the Point Of Impact (POI). Often times you can raise, or lower the POI by merely changing the bullet weight, since a heavier bullet will stay in the barrel a microsecond longer, allowing the muzzle to begin to rise before the bullet leaves the barrel.


Just a FYI: The bullet is long gone way before the gun starts to rise in recoil. That occurs with any weight bullet. Video cameras have come a long way & dispelled that myth:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...However, *high pockets* is essentially correct anyway.
The heavier bullet's longer "dwell time" causes it to hit the target higher than will a lighter bullet, relative to point-of-aim.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

Whole grain is better.
FMJ goes through your system better.


Reduced grain HP has better potential to stay in the body.


But some need gluten free.


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## no7sec2 (Mar 14, 2016)

Hmm. Lot to think about. Thanks, everybody.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

If you are just target shooting with no plans to carry for self defense, won't matter too much what you shoot. That said, as others have mentioned, determine what bullet size (grains) you have the best control with.
If you are carrying for defense, again determine what bullet/load meets your need. In defense, you need to be able to hit your 'target' and re-acquire as fast as possible for the next shot. There are all kinds of defensive rounds from soft nose (not always good in semiauto handguns), FMJ, Hollow points, fragmenting rounds, Fancy rounds (Like Ruger ARX and Lehigh extreme penetrator round).
My comment would be to find the round for you (for defense) that does the best job staying IN the target to transfer all of it's energy into stopping the attack. Bullets that over penetrate and pass thru take a lot of their energy with them and are at risk for taking out unintended targets.





 =G2 RIP fragmenting rounds

If you end up in court over defending yourself with your weapon and the Prosecutor is taking a stand against guns (or running for office), you might find him/her describing something like the fragmenting rounds as being "Extra Deadly" to present the theory to the jury that 'regular' bullets weren't good enough for you, you wanted one that was extra deadly to be sure you killed someone. Presenting you to the jury as someone wanting an opportunity to kill someone, not just defend yourself.
Some here have suggested carry what the cops carry. If you're in court and challenged on your choice of ammo you can respond that if it's good enough for police, it should be good enough for me.

Choose wisely for self defense Grasshopper


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

CW said:


> Whole grain is better.
> FMJ goes through your system better.
> 
> Reduced grain HP has better potential to stay in the body.
> ...


Lol,

I'm thinking a nice bourbon , would that be whole grain?


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

CW said:


> Whole grain is better.
> FMJ goes through your system better.
> 
> Reduced grain HP has better potential to stay in the body.
> ...


What if they're Lactose Intolerant? Do any have lactose free powder?


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

BackyardCowboy said:


> What if they're Lactose Intolerant? Do any have lactose free powder?


Don't be udderly ridiculous.

You may have to deal with nut allergies though. Just make sure your rounds are ADA, PPACA, FMLA, and EEOC compliant.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

CW said:


> Don't be udderly ridiculous.
> 
> You may have to deal with nut allergies though. Just make sure your rounds are ADA, PPACA, FMLA, and EEOC compliant.


And EPA approved and Energy Star compliant


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