# hiking in AK



## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I have been thinking of hiking in Alaska and I wanted to know what pistol would work against brown bears. I don't like a lot of recoil but I guess in that situation I wouldn't care.
What 4 gun battery would you take on a homestead adventure.
I have .308; 12 Gauge ; .357 mag ; and 22 LR and that's what I was thinking would do the job in most cases although I think a .44mag may be a better pistol rounds against Grisly.
I am interested in what 4 guns you would take on a trip to deep Alaska.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...Against bears?
How 'bout an RPG?

I suggest that an active state of observation and avoidance would serve you better than a powerful rifle or pistol.

I'm no expert on bears. But then, lack of practical experience has never stopped me before... :smt033
Are you going to hike carrying a rifle? I'm not convinced that a .308 rifle is useful _short-range_ medicine for bears, because it's hard to get it into action very quickly.
I am not a fan of the .44 Magnum pistol, because it requires a lot of preparation and practice to use it quickly and effectively, especially for a follow-up shot. But if you go that route, weight and a long barrel will ease any recoil difficulties you may experience.
At the same time, I am not sure that a .357 Magnum pistol will be sufficient against a mother bear whom you have just separated from her cubs.

If it's gotta be a gun, maybe use that 12ga shotgun with slug loads. But I'm dubious.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Against bears?
> How 'bout an RPG?
> 
> I suggest that an active state of observation and avoidance would serve you better than a powerful rifle or pistol.
> ...


I don't have any experience with bears other than black bears. I am sure that I would be in trouble if i crossed a mother bear and cub with any gun and avoidance is the best idea.
I am concern with all manor of creatures in the AK wilderness and will hunt to eat too that is why I said .308 as I can shoot it well and from research it will kill most game. I know it will kill even a moose but I wouldn't hunt them unless starving as that is a 1000 lbs of meat. I am worried about wolves, wolverines, caribou, and moose more than bears but I figure if I can shoot good most anything will kill it. I don't think a .357 will do much against a coastal brown bear but a inner land brown bear weighs about 500 lbs at most. If hiking with a gun it most likely will be a O/U with buckshot and a slug and a sidearm in case of self defense. I plan on a summer trip for 60 days of fishing and hunting and living in a tent/hammock. I will be alone so security is an issue.
I am interested in what you would take with you if you were to fly to a MTN Lake and try to survive for 2 months alone. I plan on taking a week worth of dried foods in case weather keeps me from obtaining food. With that I shouldn't starve to death even if things go bad for 2-3 weeks then I should be able to find berries, fish, and other game to eat.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Have you done a trip like this before? 60 days. By yourself.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

You have a .22 on your list.

Seriously? 

I have a good friend that spends a lot of time in the interior of Alaska. 

He carries one handgun. It's a S&W 629 .44 Mag. with a 6" bbl. And, he shoots some special loads with it. 

If you're not familiar with the .44 Mag., I suggest that you get one and get acquainted with it, and make it your new best friend.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> You have a .22 on your list.
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> ...


Your right about the .22 LR but it's a Mark 3 hunter pistol that I figure could shoot birds, beavers, and small mammals but I guess I could use a .44 Mag more or simply pack a box of bird shot. 
It sounds like I need to give this trip a lot more thought before I get myself killed and most likely by the weather. I know the weather can change in a moment and take your life let a lone wildlife to go along with it.
Perhaps I should shorten the trip to a 30 days adventure and go from there. 
Thanks for the info.


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## Broondog (Feb 1, 2013)

shaolin said:


> It sounds like I need to give this trip a lot more thought before I get myself killed and most likely by the weather. I know the weather can change in a moment and take your life let a lone wildlife to go along with it.
> Perhaps I should shorten the trip to a 30 days adventure and go from there.
> Thanks for the info.


have you done extended trips in your normal climate zone and honed your skills there? like any activity you should work your way up to the top, not start there.

this Alaska trip could be the trip of a lifetime, of that i have no doubt. but you should be CERTAIN of your survival skills and also of your mental and physical abilities and limitations. if you have not done a 2-4 week stay in a local forest yet in relative proximity to civilization to hone your skillset you might consider it. then go for 30 days somewhere more rugged and maybe cooler. then maybe somewhere during the rainy season as being constantly wet can drain a man (ask me how i know). i would think that the Pacific Northwest in the spring or fall might be similar to Alaska in the summer, and a lot closer to help if needed.

i'm sure you are stoked and excited about making this trip but Alaska will always be there. take your time preparing and make sure you are still there when Alaska is done with you.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I have done 10 day trips to Smokey Mountains and been rained on and frozen my tail off too and it's enough to make a man run to a cabin to warm up but AK is a whole different story I am sure.
I have no doubt I need more prep it's just something on my bucket list and I wanted to check it off while I am still young enough to do it. Perhaps I should do a survival school trip in the AK wilderness first and learn about the local do's and don'ts how to catch local fish and forage for local plants before I end up like that guy on Into the Wild. The fact that I don't own a .44 mag which I know is the min against bears in AK is a red flag to me. I've saved up $30K to make this dream come true and your right AK will be there when I am more prepared. I think I will take a formal school in AK before I get dumped into the great unknown.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

shaolin said:


> I have been thinking of hiking in Alaska and I wanted to know what pistol would work against brown bears. I don't like a lot of recoil but I guess in that situation I wouldn't care.
> What 4 gun battery would you take on a homestead adventure.
> I have .308; 12 Gauge ; .357 mag ; and 22 LR and that's what I was thinking would do the job in most cases although I think a .44mag may be a better pistol rounds against Grisly.
> I am interested in what 4 guns you would take on a trip to deep Alaska.


Interested in hiking in Alaska, by yourself, with family, a group, or with a seasoned guide? I'd do plenty of research on the do's and don'ts while in bear country, more specifically recognizing evidence that bears are in the vicinity and their very nature. Speak with locals having knowledge if possible. I've heard time and time again bears, especially grizzly's, do not like surprises and a female with her cubs is almost a guarantee that the game is on unless the bears have ample room to make a retreat, but still that may not be a guarantee. A good quality Bear spray is often recommended, but as far as firearms go, A .44 magnum with cast or solid projectiles on the heavy and hot end, a 12 gauge w/ brenneke rifled slugs, or any hunting rifle more preferably of the 300 magnum ilk or higher, but 30-06 and 308would suffice w/ a-frames or bear claws of al least 180 grains, but I don't know how comfortable it would be to pack a long arm on a hiking trip. If I were only going to pack a sidearm I'd get plenty of practice with a quick draw out to 10-15 yards placing my shots all in a pie plate. In other words that pie plate would be representing the Grizzly's head. Attacks are relatively rare, but I'd gain as much knowledge as possible.

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

Firearms for Defense against Bears

http://teejaw.com/2010/08/30/bear-attack-in-alaska/


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

A little off-topic, but there's a lot of people in Alaska that went there to _disappear_.

I'm talking about the ones on the run, running from the law, or just plain don't like people, or to be around them. It's kinda like the last frontier in the USA.

Sometimes, the most dangerous animals, are the ones that walk upright. :smt105

Just something to keep in the back of your mind.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

The trip idea is a great item for your bucket list. I'm too old (70) and lazy to make it there.

I had a friend, now deceased. He went ahead with a two-week fishing trip to Alaska after his
brother-in-law had a heart attack and couldn't go along. He was flown into a lake, and was
by himself for two weeks. But, stayed in a very strong "little cabin". He had no weapon. After
a few beers, it was great fun to hear him describe depending on a strong and iron strap clad 
door while some "large animals" snorting and huffing and investigating the fish smell at night.

There was a lodge on the far side of the lake. One time a guide without customers came by,
and couldn't believe he was cleaning fish without having a weapon. And offered his 12 gauge. 
Since he still had his sidearm. John refused, at the time he "wasn't into guns". He was cleaning
fish outside his cabin, and bears showed up. And he made it into the cabin. They didn't leave
until the next morning. He always ended his story with "I've been rethinking my attitude about guns".

Anyway, I'll stick to my mountain wilderness areas near my home. Mostly day trips.
Here,the only serious "people predators" are black bears and mountain lions. And rabid foxes. 
There have been a few lion attacks. Mostly young males without "a territory". Or, occasionally, rabid.

Our Black bears just like to avoid people. Except for a very rare "stressed" animal. Our State Fish
and Wildlife folks are "on top of that". Two stalking incidents, and the bear is out. For good.

Given that, I carry more gun than is likely to be needed. I was passing through one of our
many local gun stores. Two "new folks" from Alaska had traded their Ruger Super Redhawk
Alaskans in .454 Casull for Ruger SRH .44 Mags (more than enough for our area).

I couldn't resist. I left with the one with a Trijicon Tritium front night sight. And Magna-Ported.
Yes, it's overkill. But, it will also shoot .45 Long Colt, and I already had a few of "them".

So, I carry this in a Galco leather holster with security strap, and a heavy cartridge belt. Yes,
a "snubby" weighing 43 ounces plus the weight of six rounds, and 12 in the cartridge belt is
overkill. I like it that way. And I shoot full power loads at my range fairly often. Which usually
draws folks from the center-fire and rimfire rifle ranges to "see what's going on". :mrgreen:

I couldn't do a head-shot at 25 yards. But, I can put three double-action hits in a pie-plate
at 10 yards. In two seconds. Don't know if I could do that under real stress. Don't expect
to ever have to do that. And I wouldn't be going for a head shot.

Older forum members here have heard "this story", and seen this photo. Sometimes, guys just want to have fun. :smt1099


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> The trip idea is a great item for your bucket list. I'm too old (70) and lazy to make it there.
> 
> I had a friend, now deceased. He went ahead with a two-week fishing trip to Alaska after his
> brother-in-law had a heart attack and couldn't go along. He was flown into a lake, and was
> ...


Great gun, love it!!!:smt049


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Having read no replies.....

12g slugs yeah,a 22 for munchies.I wouldn't chose the other 2 until I saw the situation I was in-critters of all sorts out there ya know?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

So, *shaolin*, how much can you carry, all day, for days on end?
Guns are heavy. But a backpacker needs things to be as lightweight as possible.
A rifle and its ammunition, or a shotgun, plus things to carry with, will weigh between eight and 10 pounds. A powerful pistol, its ammunition, and carry stuff will weigh four or five pounds. A .22 rifle could be pared down to maybe six pounds, complete, and a .22 pistol of game-hunting accuracy, and its equipment, might go to three or four pounds.
Weight, alone, might dictate what you'll be carrying for self-defense and hunting.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> So, *shaolin*, how much can you carry, all day, for days on end?
> Guns are heavy. But a backpacker needs things to be as lightweight as possible.
> A rifle and its ammunition, or a shotgun, plus things to carry with, will weigh between eight and 10 pounds. A powerful pistol, its ammunition, and carry stuff will weigh four or five pounds. A .22 rifle could be pared down to maybe six pounds, complete, and a .22 pistol of game-hunting accuracy, and its equipment, might go to three or four pounds.
> Weight, alone, might dictate what you'll be carrying for self-defense and hunting.


It is clear that I can't take all that I want to. I have to limit myself to 60 lbs due to limitations. I think that a trip to a mountain lake with a cabin may be a better choice with the option of exploring the area for game. That way I can carry more food and less gear. Ax, guns,sleeping bag,air pad, tent/hammock,knives,cookware,headlamp,emergency beacon will add up in weight quickly. There are trips in Outdoor Life that last 2 weeks with the option of calling to stay longer on the AK Peninsula maybe I should do this instead of going out into the wild without all the skills needed. I am thinking now of a Rifle .308 and a .44mag handgun and maybe my Henry US Survival .22 LR take-down rifle.
One thing for sure is I need better planning.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Just make sure that there's a Holiday Inn Express within walking distance. :mrgreen:


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> Just make sure that there's a Holiday Inn Express within walking distance. :mrgreen:


only if it has a free continental breakfast


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Would a Judge work? I ask because I know that a 45 LC has a decent amount of power.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

shaolin said:


> Would a Judge work? I ask because I know that a 45 LC has a decent amount of power.


If you want to shoot .45 "Long" Colt, why not get a pistol that fires that round? (A gun that uses .454 Casull also takes .45 LC.)
The Judge is a dud. Pistol bullets become inaccurate because of its long, wide-open cylinder bores. Shotgun charges are ineffective, and also inaccurate because of the legally-required rifling.

BTW: The .45 ACP gives you the same ballistics as .45 "Long" Colt.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> The trip idea is a great item for your bucket list. I'm too old (70) and lazy to make it there.
> 
> I had a friend, now deceased. He went ahead with a two-week fishing trip to Alaska after his
> brother-in-law had a heart attack and couldn't go along. He was flown into a lake, and was
> ...


Here's what you want, probably the best defensive sidearm for the big NA dangerous critters. They don't call them Ruger Alaskans for no reason, I wanted one but had a real hard time finding one when I wanted it. Make sure you read the link below if you already haven't.

http://teejaw.com/2010/08/30/bear-attack-in-alaska/


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

After reading those stories on how hard it is to kill a Grisly I think I am going to avoid them if possible. Heck it looks like this animals absorbs bullets and still eat the man who shot him. I will add bear spray to the menu for sure.
From reports it also looks like all handguns are underpowered to handle a big bear unless you get lucky and hit the brain the bear will be upon you without mercy. I might just file the front sight off so it don't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up my #$%. I have read that there have been only 6 reported kills from them in recent history so I will avoid them at all cost and keep food prep quick as possible and destroy traces of food around camp.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

shaolin said:


> After reading those stories on how hard it is to kill a Grisly I think I am going to avoid them if possible. Heck it looks like this animals absorbs bullets and still eat the man who shot him. I will add bear spray to the menu for sure.
> From reports it also looks like all handguns are underpowered to handle a big bear unless you get lucky and hit the brain the bear will be upon you without mercy. I might just file the front sight off so it don't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up my #$%. I have read that there have been only 6 reported kills from them in recent history so I will avoid them at all cost and keep food prep quick as possible and destroy traces of food around camp.


Would you mind terribly, if I took a $100K life insurance policy out on you? :mrgreen:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

paratrooper said:


> Would you mind terribly, if I took a $100K life insurance policy out on you? :mrgreen:


:anim_lol: :anim_lol: :anim_lol:


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## OHshooter (Mar 21, 2013)

I have a friend who bought a .44 specifically because he was going on a camping/Elk hunt in Montana in case of bears. I read an interview with a bear hunting guide once and he said no handgun only 12 ga loaded with 2 slugs first and the rest buckshot


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

Here is the shotgun for Grizzly


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

pic said:


> AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube
> 
> Here is the shotgun for Grizzly


That is a great shotgun for bears. HE rds then AP rds should do the trick. 
I saw this show years ago and was very impressed by the firepower.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

OHshooter said:


> I have a friend who bought a .44 specifically because he was going on a camping/Elk hunt in Montana in case of bears. I read an interview with a bear hunting guide once and he said no handgun only 12 ga loaded with 2 slugs first and the rest buckshot


Bears are no joke and the AK Coastal Bears are 2 times the size as Montana's bears and can run a horse down and kill it with a single swat.
You can shoot it and break a leg and the bear will still charge with 3 legs and kill you. You gotta hit them in the brain to be sure of a stop and that is not easy to do.
I would still carry a pistol just in case I go up a tree and have to shoot as the bear is climbing as least if I am going to die the bear will also or hurt like hell and remember me long after he eats me.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> Would you mind terribly, if I took a $100K life insurance policy out on you? :mrgreen:


Only if you put a bounty out on the Bear that kills me. Look for the one with a severe limp and indigestion.lol... Don't forget to take care of my cat.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

This rifle would stop a bear for sure if you hit em in a vital area. 
MY NEXT BEAR RIFLE - YouTube


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

This shotgun would stop a charging bear.
4 gauge shotgun - YouTube


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

While, of course I can't resist. I'll try to make this a bit shorter. Really hard for me to do. *Oops, just previewed this post. I couldn't do it.*


shaolin said:


> After reading those stories on how hard it is to kill a Grisly I think I am going to avoid them if possible. Heck it looks like this animals absorbs bullets and still eat the man who shot him. I will add bear spray to the menu for sure.
> From reports it also looks like all handguns are underpowered to handle a big bear unless you get lucky and hit the brain the bear will be upon you without mercy.


1. My personal "feeling" is you can forget pepper spray for animals on their "adrenalin charge". Even for a domestic dog (been there, not fun).
Large, small, rabid, or "whatever". Based on stories from the local "pro's" who take care of our lions/bears/rabid animals who "do wrong".
Somewhere I have a very good book on lion attacks in the States. Can't remember the title. But, find it on Google. Good stories, good advice.

2. I have considerable experience with "performing under mental/physical stress". But none in the "charging animal" arena. OK, the one dog.
I'm araid I think the idea that you could hit a charging "big bear" in the brain is highly unlikely. Handgun, rifle, or shotgun. 
The very best I could envision for myself with my handgun is one round in the animal. And then hopefully retaining my handgun
to produce more rounds while "we were engaged".

Your mileage, and your abilities, may vary. You have to assess your capablities to emerge alive, however "tattered".
Part of the "Alaska equation" is you probably can't access the "golden hour" like our troops in "the sandboxes". It is easy to bleed out.



shaolin said:


> . . . I have read that there have been only 6 reported kills from them in recent history so I will avoid them at all cost and keep food prep quick as possible and destroy traces of food around camp.


Yes, that is totally smart. However, what you consider "destroying food traces" may not be the same as an animal's senses.
After all, most of us are just "meek metrosexual humans". They depend on their sense of smell to stay alive.

Whether around my area or Alaska, I think really nasty bear interactions with humans (lions in my area) are very rare.
But, they do happen. And a few times people die. If the people are lucky, they survive and are scared "sh_tless" forever.

You mentioned you had quite a bit of money set aside for your "bucket list" trip. I'm jealous, and I admire that a lot.
My advice: Could you set up a trip for first try evaluation where your home base could be be a cabin as I described in a previous post ?
There is a great deal of "ease" in being fortified during the nightime hours. A tent does NOT meet "this criteria".

A few years ago, my then wife and I were tenting down by a wilderness river site. She was totally anti-gun.
A group of javalina decided to "investigate" us. You can imagine how much fun a bunch of really nasty-smelling
animals snuffling and snorting and and pushing on our tent walls generate. I produced a REALLY powerful flashlight.
And, from nowhere, a handgun. And went outside to tell the pigs to get lost. Body language does work.

She never mentioned "I hate guns" again. My current girlfriend and I target shoot in competition. :mrgreen:


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> Yes, that is totally smart. However, what you consider "destroying food traces" may not be the same as an animal's senses.
> After all, most of us are just "meek metrosexual humans". They depend on their sense of smell to stay alive.
> :mrgreen:


Indeed Dan P, Bears are thought to have the best sense of smell of any animal on earth. For example, the average dog's sense of smell is 100 times better than a humans. A blood hound's is 300 times better. A bear's sense of smell is 7 times better than a blood hound's or 2,100 times better than a human. So, if you don't think you smell it, rest assured the bear may. I own a 450 Marlin Guide Gun proper for it's purpose. I prefer heavy iron and 430 grains @3,446 ft. lbs of solid lead over a mist of pepper in the wind on an adrenalin charged dangerous animal.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

denner said:


> . . . I own a 450 Marlin Guide Gun proper for it's purpose. I prefer heavy iron and 430 grains @3,446 ft. lbs of solid lead over a mist of pepper in the wind on an adrenalin charged dangerous animal.


So you have the "proper" firepower for the really big and really nasty folks.
I'm just betting on "the odds" around where I live. And I don't carry my "really heavy iron" on hikes.

My Alaskan is enough handgun for what might be "hunting humans" around here.
My 260 grains at 1,700 fps is probably enough. Provided I can use it properly. 
Who knows ? I really don't expect to have to find out. :mrgreen:


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> So you have the "proper" firepower for the really big and really nasty folks.
> I'm just betting on "the odds" around where I live. And I don't carry my "really heavy iron" on hikes.
> 
> My Alaskan is enough handgun for what might be "hunting humans" around here.
> ...


Most definitely, the 454 Casull can take any animal that walks the earth including the big 5 of Africa. I would surmise having 75% more recoil in some loads over the 44 magnum you better hold on tight.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> The trip idea is a great item for your bucket list. I'm too old (70) and lazy to make it there.
> 
> I had a friend, now deceased. He went ahead with a two-week fishing trip to Alaska after his
> brother-in-law had a heart attack and couldn't go along. He was flown into a lake, and was
> ...


So with the 2 1/2 inch barrel is it accurate to 15 yards? How is recoil and muzzle blast?
My goal with it is to penertrate through the skull of a brownie and make it to the brain or at least make it through the skull and shock wave kills the darn beast with claws as big as fingers on a full grown man.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Is this a good gun or would a Ruger hold up better in AK?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

"Live by the BEAR, DIE by the BEAR"

I know I heard that quote somewhere, or was it a sword?


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