# The Need for +P



## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

I question the actual need for +P ammunition in self defense guns. It seems that ammunition and firearms manufacturers play upon our innate fears to keep increasing the power of handgun ammunition, blurring the boundaries of calibers by drawing the lesser powered ones ever closer to the more powerful ones above them, with seemingly little gain in effectiveness. 

For instance, what does one actually gain in 38 Special +P or 45ACP +P? Is the difference in power significant enough to warrant the increased muzzle blast and felt recoil? Since when has the 45 ACP needed boosting to +P? Does a shooter who is barely capable of shooting a low-recoil 38 Special round, benefit from the increased stress of the +P round? 

There has been a great deal of progress in making existing calibers more effective with better bullets. Silver Tips, low-recoil rounds for the 38 Special have increased that caliber's potential considerably without +P pressure and recoil. Hollow point .45 ACP rounds now feed in 1911 pistols quite well, though I see no special need for them. We have frangible rounds too for self defense. +P Ammunition could even defeat the safety of self defense rounds by over-penetration in habited structures. I am not convinced that there is any tangible need for them in self defense, which is what they are touted for. What is next? .357 +P? I think they tried that with the .357 Maximum. 

Could some of this just be another marketing scheme to make us spend more money? Or perhaps wear out our guns sooner? I wonder.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

A lot of it is the lastest greatest whizBang to come down the road. Keeping up with the Jones, I mean it's the American way. Look at the new .327mag and what a flop that has turned out to be. A lot of it is to make money. Look at rifles if you want to see a whole bunch of calibers that are not really needed. I load my .38's just a tad hotter than stock but nowhere near a full +p load. I only load my .357's when I want to make some noise at the range.


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## knoxrocks222 (May 1, 2008)

i dont believe they make a .45acp +p round, u make a good argument but i always opt for the more power, just take one look at my car and you will see lol i have a 1100 hp supra, do i need all that power, the answer is no but its nice to know that if i need to go 20mph to 120mph in 4 seconds i can its also nice to know that if i ever pull my firearm and have to shoot someone <<which i hope i never have to do, that they will indeed not be getting back up.

knox


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## bill5074 (Jun 23, 2008)

A long time ago it might of made a difference. With todays ammo I don't think it makes any difference. it's a little hotter load thats all. Any premium quality ammo you buy today should take care of business. Alot of people think you need a hotter load and i don't think that is the case. You hit someone with a 230 grain .45 it is not going to matter a bit.


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## Ptarmigan (Jul 4, 2008)

As a matter of fact there are .45ACP +P rounds on the market today. I saw them the first time in 2001 when we were choosing new duty ammo for my police department. We considered the, at the time, new Federal Tactical Bonded 230 grain in .45 +P but decided to stay with the Hydra-Shok 230 grain.

http://le.atk.com/ballistics/Ammo_Ballistics.aspx?id=553&firearm=2&bc=0.19&muzzvel=950&bulletwgt=230

Last I knew there was no .40S&W rounds in +P from the "common" ammunition companies.


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## nelskc (Jan 15, 2008)

I have 230 grain JHP +P hornady for my XD .45. I figure I have a modern XD with a 4" barrel, why not utilize that with a powerful bullet. The recoil isn't really that bad with my gun, very managable, and if I ever really need to use it I know I won't feel a thing. Just my .02 cents.


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

I also have some 45acp +P. I've never seen 40 S&W +P though, and I use 9mm +P in my carry pistols for that caliber. In my opinion, +P cartridges would do well in the smaller, short barreled pistols for obvious reasons.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I load most all my home growns to a +p rating. Well..Most, depending on the slug I'm using


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

The 9MM, .45ACP and .38SPL were designed 100 years ago. They were all relatively low pressure designs by todays standards. The .40 is a relatively new design that used High Pressure from the outset. If materials capabilities improve over the next 100 years you might see some .40 +P's in 2100.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Tell you what. Rainer makes a slug that is a lead bullet that is not jacketed per say but more like just coated. It is considered a lead slug. I've loaded many of the flat points pretty hot and got some really good expansion results. Of course being technically a lead bullet you can't get them screaming hot but I've got the 9mm's pretty jacked up. I've used them some as carry ammo after seeing how well they expand even just as a flat point although they got a hollow point that will really get out of shape hitting wet news papers, gell tests that we have done. Plus they are pretty cheap compared to some others. I get them at midway. Just switched to Accurate No. 7 powder .Was using Tight group.


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## 3/325 (Jan 16, 2008)

I'm currently using up my last box of Federal Premium HST 230gr 45ACP JHP +P. For whatever reason my shot groups get erratic with the +P. Yes, it's probably the indian and not the arrow, but I can't afford to buy a enough of those rounds for sufficient practice. I'm going to try the same round at standard pressure and see what happens.

I think +P adds something to the effectiveness, but there seems to be a lot of debate as to exactly how much "something" it adds. I only own one gun, so I better shoot the dang thing REALLY WELL before I worry about adding 50fps to the velocity.


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## Jackle1886 (Dec 21, 2007)

In a defensive handgun, I want the maximum penetration I can get. I'm more worried about missing and having a stray bullet than one blowing all the way through. A +P load moving faster will get more penetration. Hence that is what I carry.


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## undrgrnd (Jul 10, 2008)

but do remember once that projectile goes through the first target you become liable for where it ends up albeit through another person, hopefully not but then you've gone from protecting yourself legally to facing assault with deadly weapon charges or perhaps negligent homicide or murder.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I don't concern myself that much, one way or the other, about using +P in a .45, but I think they are a pretty good thing for 9mm. 

Most quality 9mm handguns are designed for 'hotter' loads than the standard American 9mm factory load, anyway, so they will thrive on +Ps. It's the reason I don't own any .40 cals, because a 9mm JHP, loaded to similar pressures (to the .40 S&W) is close enough to the .40 to satisfy me.


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

TOF said:


> If materials capabilities improve over the next 100 years you might see some .40 +P's in 2100.


Don't be silly, everybody will be running around with laser guns by then. :mrgreen:


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

unpecador said:


> Don't be silly, everybody will be running around with laser guns by then. :mrgreen:


Have you seen the Archery Equipment that has become available in the past 100 years?

Had someone asked in 1899 if people would still be hunting with Bow and Arrow in 2008 what do you think the response would have been? :mrgreen:


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

TOF said:


> Have you seen the Archery Equipment that has become available in the past 100 years?


Not too much but I do own mini crossbow.



> Had someone asked in 1899 if people would still be hunting with Bow and Arrow in 2008 what do you think the response would have been? :mrgreen:


"Don't be silly, everybody will be running around with laser guns by then."


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Ram Rod said:


> In my opinion, +P cartridges would do well in the smaller, short barreled pistols for obvious reasons.


My thoughts exactly. Although, I still don't have +P rounds in my XDSC. I don't necessarily see the need for them, but that may change when I get my CCL.

-Jeff-


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