# Confusing Hand Gun Carry Permit Laws.



## pdmayton (Jan 1, 2010)

Okay, here we go. I currently do not own a handgun but I want to but I'm not sure how I should go about getting a permit or where I should be getting it. My "home of residence" is in TN, however I am in the military and stationed in VA. TN laws say that they honor other states gun permits, however if you get another states permit and decide to take residency in TN you must get a TN gun permit within 6 months of living in TN. If that wasn't confusing enough the federal law, under the Sailors and Soldiers act says that I can buy a gun and get a gun permit in any state that I am stationed in. So does they federal law over ride that TN state law? Can I get a VA permit and still carry it in TN? Thats what I would like to think but Im no lawyer, nor do I have any experience in civilian gun laws. If someone could help me wade through this nonsense It would be much appreciated.


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## fiasconva (Jun 14, 2009)

*Check out this site*

Give this site a try. It should answer all your questions. If not, just email them and they will let you know. 
www.vcdl.org


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## jc27310 (Dec 14, 2008)

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your service!
there are web sites that show reciprocity for the permits and from my understanding, if you got a non resident permit in VA, it would be honored in TN. If you got your permit in TN, it would be honored in VA.... (I guess you cant loose!)

I would suggest educating yourself first and then asking your home town sherif about the situation. I'll bet that when you go back to TN, thats when the clock would start ticking on the 6 months, but frankly I'm just another guy in the web and not a lawyer!

Check these sites out to get your basic info before you call...
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

peace....
-jc


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## pdmayton (Jan 1, 2010)

I appreciate all the advice, I will try reading up on the links provided. If anyone has been in a similar situation please post your experience and what you did. Thanks a million.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pdmayton said:


> under the Sailors and Soldiers act says that I can buy a gun and get a gun permit in any state that I am stationed in.


Do you have a source for that information? You CAN buy a gun and get a permit, but usually you have to be a resident of that state IE VA drivers license etc. to do the back ground check in that state.

I have never head of ANY person being able to take possession of a handgun legally from a FFL holder in a state that they are not a resident of regardless of Military service.

**Edited to add: Having Orders Showing a PCS to that state _*may*_ suffice as a residency requirement. I'm looking for more info on it.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Also...

pdmayton, 

Do you live on or off base? If you live on post you need to be familiar with storage requirements to have a gun on base. Regs vary from post to post, you may be required to store personal weapons at the armory if you live on post regardless of being in BEQ, base housing or on ship.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Well I found the following:



> When purchasing a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee, is an approved Request and Authorization for Permanent Change of Station - Military form or similar Permanent Change of Station Orders (PCS Orders) sufficient for an active duty member of the Armed Forces to prove his/her State of residency after the reporting date stated in the orders?
> Yes, so long as the PCS orders have been signed and authenticated by the approving official listed in the orders. As provided by 18 U.S.C. § 921(b) and 27 CFR § 478.11 (definition of "State of Residence"), a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his/her permanent duty station is located. Approved PCS orders are valid military orders requiring the military member to report to active duty on the date, and at the permanent duty station stated in the orders. Therefore, PCS orders are sufficient proof that the military member is a resident of the State in which the new permanent duty station is located after the reporting date stated in the orders.
> If the member of the Armed Forces receives his orders electronically and does not have signed and authenticated PCS orders, he may present an electronic copy of the PCS orders along with an original official letter, signed by his commanding officer at his new duty station authenticating the PCS orders. This letter must include contact information for the commanding officer in order to allow for verification of the orders.
> Military orders approving only temporary duty ("TDY" or "TAD") at another location are not sufficient to show the State of residency of a military member when acquiring a firearm. Also, a valid (unexpired) picture ID issued by a Government entity must accompany the PCS orders to constitute a proper "identification document" for an active duty military member to acquire a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee.


_**I'm still looking for the "official" documentation supporting the above._

*BUT...

*Be advised that in VA you need TWO pieces of ID to make a handgun purchase and I am now looking for info that would support you using your Military ID and *TN Drivers License or State ID *to make the purchase.

Also, if you go into a shop without giving them prior notice, don't be surprised if they give you the run around. Before you go into buy, call ahead and talk with the owner / manager to make sure they are aware of the law / circumstances. It shouldn't be a problem at a _real _gun shop, but if it's a Bass Pro, Gander Mt., Sportsman's Warehouse etc. I can see them not knowing.

_____________________________

Edited to add:

Found the following on the VA State Police Website.



> *Military Personnel*
> * Active military personnel permanently stationed in Virginia are treated as Virginia residents for the purchase of a handgun. Identification and residency are established by the following:*
> * A military photo-identification card issued by the United States Department of Defense and proof that Virginia is the permanent duty station via current military assignment orders is acceptable identification and residency documentation to establish military personnel as residents of Virginia.*
> * If permanently assigned to a mobile unit in Virginia, and the homeport is listed as Virginia; the transaction may be processed as a Virginia resident the same as any other permanent military assignment to Virginia supported by military assignment orders. The individual is treated as a non-Virginia resident if the homeport is listed as any place other than Virginia.*
> * Individuals retired from military service are subject to the same identification and residency requirements as any other person wishing to purchase a firearm; i.e., a primary and secondary form of ID.*


So your order and Military ID prove residence for the purchase and should suffice for you VA resident permit that will allow you to carry in TN unless you move back. As you are active duty Military you should be exempt from the training requirement for the VA CCW:


> The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:
> 
> 
> Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;
> ...


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## SaltyDog (Jan 1, 2009)

Well VAMarine you beat me to it. My son is also stationed in VA and his home of record is Florida but he has made handgun purchases in VA and told me that he can acquire a CCW permit there with no testing. Just fill out the forms and they do a background check - done.

Also from my experience if you live on base/post the weapons have to be stored in the armory.


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## pdmayton (Jan 1, 2010)

Well VAMarine, you answered most of your own questions. I had actually read that on a site for Tennessee gun laws though I can't remember the url but it interestingly enough became an issue for soldiers stationed in Ft. Cambell. Most of Ft. Cambell is on KY soil, but part is on TN soil so the soldiers on the TN part of the base couldn't buy a handgun in KY and Tennessee was not allowing them to purchase a handgun without a TN drivers license until a (retired?) soldier brought up the Sailors and Soldiers act which is a federal law (so the article says) that requires states to sell handguns to eligible military personnel regardless of official "home of record" or "residency" so long as that were permanently stationed in said state. 

Also, no I do not live on a base. If I did I would not be buying a handgun because our "rules" for having any type on civilian gun on base haven't allowed anyone to do so since the 80's and that was apparently under some unusual circumstances. Thanks for all the info!


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## pdmayton (Jan 1, 2010)

Okay, first to VAMarine, thank you a million for taking the time out of your day to sit down and figure this one out. Secondly, after thoroughly reading all the information you have provided I want to make sure I understand this. 

All I need is a Military ID Card, an electronically generated set of Orders (from Bupers lets say), and another form of ID (Social Security Card? TN Drivers License?). Additionally I would NOT be required to take the normal handgun saftey type classes thats normally required for CCW because I'm in the military (Military ID would once again serve as proof of this?) So now that this is mostly all cleared up, and this may be an ignorant question (in fact Im sure it is) where can I go to apply for this permit (Police Station?).


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## SaltyDog (Jan 1, 2009)

"Fill out the Virginia Concealed Carry Application and take it down to the clerk of the court's office in the city or county where you live along with the certificate of completion from your safety class, your DD214, or other gun safety knowledge proving document that is approved by Virginia."


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