# Concealable .357



## kodiak (Sep 10, 2011)

Hi, this is my first firearms purchase, and I think I've narrowed it down to one model, but I could use some second opinions. I'm looking for a self defense weapon that I can carry around if necessary. I want stopping power, so I'd like a .357, but I don't want to sacrifice accuracy completely (inevitable, I know) so I've been looking for concealed hammer .357s with a barrel more than 2 inches. I've been looking at the Taurus CIA and Ruger SP101, but so far the S&W 640 looks best to me. The S&W M&P340 caught my eye too, even though it's barrel is a bit short it seems like a quality revolver, I was wondering if anybody might have any opinions in it? Are there any concealed hammer .357s with longer barrels, something closer to 3" maybe?

Thanks a lot for any advice that you guys can lend, it would be much appreciated.


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## Ala Tom (Apr 1, 2011)

Put the .357 in a 2-inch barrel and you give a way a lot of stopping power. You'd be as well off with an automatic in .40 S&W power. At close range the .357 will generally go right on through the BG without stopping him too well. The .40 with JHP bullets will stop him better according to what I've read. Check Genitron.com for more info on self defense capability. You can compare any gun to any other gun. I like my S&W M&P 40 full size but you can get the compact size for better concealment. The FS has a 4.3 inch barrel which does not reduce energy much compared to a 5 or 6 inch barrel. I find the M&P autos much easier on the trigger finger and more accurate than DA revolvers.

I just went to Genitron.com and made a comparison between the SW MP 40C and the SW 640. They are close to the same size and weight. The MP40c carries twice as many rounds. The power factor is 192622 for the 357 and 174283 for the 40. But I don't know if that includes the short barrel correction. The recoil factor (for accuracy of your 2nd shot) is 15.449 for 357 and 9.103 for the 40. The overall defense factor is 74% for the 357 and 84% for the 40.

From ballisticsbytheinch.com we see that a 2 inch barrel on the 357 sees only 39% of the muzzel energy compared to a 5 inch barrel. (Fed 158 JHP)
___________________________________a 3.5 inch barrel on 40 sees 84% of the muzzel energy compared to a 5 inch barrel. (Fed 180 JHP)

I'd put the overall reliability of the 640 at 99.99% and the MP 40c at 99.9%. That is based on remarks on this Forum and on the S&W Forum. (I chose the same 40 S&W ammo I shoot for home defense in my full size MP40. I am pretty sure its reliability is high using a current version of the M&P.)

The short barrel effect gives the 357 a muzzel energy of 211 ft-lb (.39x540) and the 40 a muzzel energy of 336 ft-lb (.84x400) based on data from Federal Cartridge for the ammo selected. So you see how a nominal power advantage can disappear.


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## kodiak (Sep 10, 2011)

Wow, thanks a lot for the prompt reply and all that info! This is really helpful to know. It's funny, originally I wanted a pistol for the clip size and ease of reloading, but when I researched it more it seemed like the unanimous opinion was that a first time handgun owner should buy a revolver, for reliability and ease of maintenance. But I know a decent amount about firearms for someone who hasn't purchased one so I think I could trust myself to properly maintain one, and if the MP40 is that reliable, then it's a definite option. I didn't know the .357 loses so much of it's muzzle energy in a short barrel, again I really appreciate you digging up all those numbers.

The only drawback to the 40 I can think of is the shape. The shape of the 640 is perfect for a smooth draw from pockets or the waistline, do you think the 40 is more likely to get snagged on the draw? Even if it is slightly more likely, your numbers show the compact 40 has 50% more muzzle energy than the 640, which I think offsets it pretty well. Also, do you think it's reliability would decrease if I practice with it often? Maybe something like 150-200 rounds/month, on average? Thanks again for all the help.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

concealability is totally dependent upon the size and shape of the person....i am a large man and i have concealed my 4in 586 smith on many occasions, its a large frame .357. .... my female room mate regularly conceals her 640.... would i feel out gunned with the 640? not a chance, is my 586 the best to conceal? no again...... the GIRTH not the barrel length is the main issue with revolver concealment. 

i usually carry my sig p6/225 either open or concealed because of the thinner profile..... 

so i guess my advice is carry what you are comfortable with, in a holster that allows you to hide it well and use your clothing as a mask....

no matter what you choose, i applaud you for taking on the responsibility for your safety and your loved ones


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Welcome to the forum. Another conversation about stopping power huh? 'How much formal training do you have?' would be my first question. Too many people get all wrapped up in discussions about which gun, which round, how much ammo capacity in the *magazine* (not clip), blah blah blah......, without considering all the other factors involved in carrying a firearm and god forbid actually having to use it. There is a lot of wisdom and experience available on this forum regarding all aspects of guns and carrying them. Learn about the software (mental) side of it as well as the hardware (guns and gear) side of it so you can be better prepared to survive a gun fight if it absolutely can not be avoided. Your level of education and training might be sufficient or it may be non-existent. I don't know, but I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned at all yet.


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## kodiak (Sep 10, 2011)

I have no formal training, although I've fired 5-6 different weapons over about a decade, so I would say that while I have some experience, it's pretty limited. I've fired a few pistols, a .38, an old rifle (my grandfather's, don't know anything about it's caliber), and a 12-gauge. Admittedly, most of my knowledge comes from watching/reading a whole lot about different wars, some occasional paintballing and yes, playing first person shooters. I have a good general idea of the mechanics of firearms, although there is much room for improvement. I'm a pretty big guy so that should help with concealment, and recoil wasn't really an issue when I was younger, so I don't think it would be now. However, this weapon may also be carried by my wife, although much less often, and her experience is definitely non-existent, so I'll be educating her as I further educate myself. So it is definitely a consideration for me that she hasn't ever fired a weapon before, and with that in mind I've even been considering something like the G19 4G. It's not that she couldn't handle the recoil on the 640, but I figure the G19 is probably a better handgun to learn with (and cheaper on ammo I imagine). 

Thanks a lot for the posts guys, the info is really helpful.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

this thread took a completely unforeseeable turn.....

so i guess the best .357 mag revolver for concealability is a fourth generation g19? 

for every question, there is only one answer GLOCK. 

i wonder how well it is recommended by others of similar experience in history channel, paintball and video shooting games?


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## Russ (Aug 19, 2011)

If you go with a 9 mm using for example 124 Gold Dot hollow + p short barrel (burns faster thus increasing muzzle velocity) you will have more than enough knock down power and target practice is half the cost of 357. T


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## kodiak (Sep 10, 2011)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> this thread took a completely unforeseeable turn.....
> 
> so i guess the best .357 mag revolver for concealability is a fourth generation g19?
> 
> ...


A bit of latent hostility there, are you trying to get me to feel stupid for suggesting a manufacturer you don't like? The reason I initially opted for the snub .357 in the first place was my mistaken impression that it had substantially more power than other small handguns. Since revolvers lose proportionately more muzzle energy relative to pistols as the barrel is shortened, they lose their main advantage over compact pistols for my needs. Upon comparing the .40 with the 9mm, I felt that while the .40 has more power, the difference is negligible enough that I'd rather sacrifice the small increase in power for better placement shots, and more of them at that. After all, even a history channel watching, paintballing, video game playing guy like me knows that placement is more important than power, and since I'm a novice shooter at best, I feel the reduced recoil in the 9 would give me better accuracy on my 2nd and 3rd shots. Anyway, judging from your post I no longer have to wonder how well recommended it is by you, although it was a real nail biter.



Russ said:


> If you go with a 9 mm using for example 124 Gold Dot hollow + p short barrel (burns faster thus increasing muzzle velocity) you will have more than enough knock down power and target practice is half the cost of 357. T


At this point that's actually the exact reason why I'm now looking at 9mm, with the right ammo it seems they're more effective than I thought. Thanks for the help Russ.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

no latent hostility at all, just amusement at how one goes from the initial post to the most recent development. and the glock comment was not aimed at you alone but the masses here that recommend a glock for every occasion. if the question could ONLY be answered by a colt saa, there would be a line here to recommend the glock as the perfect answer. 

as for your information gathering sources the history channel is certainly based in reality, someone elses experiences, but still reality. as for paintball and shooting video games...... well i fail to see the value except maybe there was a video image of a glock that looked awesome and felt great as you worked the controller.


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## kodiak (Sep 10, 2011)

As I'm quite sure you could see, the Glock was just one suggestion among at least 5 others. If I'm asking educated individuals for their opinions on 6 different firearms, why should you care if one of those 6 is a Glock? I don't know who regularly recommends what, because I don't frequent firearms forums. So while it wasn't aimed at me alone, it shouldn't have been aimed at me at all. I only came here for advice, not for you to vent your frustrations over Glock owners at me. It's funny how there was no 'amusement' when I went from the initial post to a .40, but I get some strange, random reaction from you when I go down from a .40 to a 9mm. And by the way, my mentioning of paintball and video games was intended to highlight my lack of formal education on firearms use, did you think I was boasting? Anyway, enjoy your passive-aggression, I'm sure it's real fun.

To any moderators who may be around, you can go ahead and close the thread, I think I know what I'm getting. Thanks for all the help guys, it's really very much appreciated, I don't take the protection of my family or myself lightly and all the info has really helped me to make a more educated decision, so thanks again.


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Coming here with an opinion and learning some things or gaining a different perspective that causes you to modify your initial opinion is the sign of an open mind and a desire to learn. That's a good thing. Also, there are some good websites out there aimed at women. A good one is corneredcat.com. Often us men try to dominate the world of guns and the women get turned off to it. Letting them learn stuff from other experienced women that provide info from a women's perspective can help greatly. Another bit of advice I've heard from others that makes a lot of sense is try to get yourself and your woman to a professional instructor. Allowing a professional third party to teach her will remove any emotions and personal conflicts from the equation. After you both receive some instruction you can go to a range and practice what you've learned together. If she feels like she is walking beside you instead of behind you the results may be better. Good luck.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Massad Ayoob, and other noted experts have declared the .357 (the Federal 125 grain, specifically) as the most potent defensive round out there including both the .41 and the .44. (For those of you who want to look it up it is in his current book on concealed carry.)

In any case if you want a weapon with good put down power in a light weapon the .357 snubbie is a good choice. The 340PD is very light and very powerful (and has significant perceived recoil). If you are not recoil sensitive, this is a lot of gun to carry with very little weight and size.

A step down in recoil would be the 340 M & P mainly because it can handle lighter weight bullets which have less recoil. So a 100 grain bullet from the 340 M & P has a lot of energy (about 500 ft/lbs) at the muzzle). The 340 PD cannot fire these light weight bullets as they leave the cylinder so quickly that the unburned powder damages the titanium. The M & P uses a stainless steel cylinder.

You might want to look at Smith and Wesson's .327 magnum offering. It generates similar energy levels with lighter bullets and with significantly lower recoil levels. It comes with a 3" barrel.

Go to the S & W site there are many other offerings in .327. The 360 PD has the best rear sights; the 340 PD shares the same front sights (Hi-viz) with the 360 (but not the same rear sights).

Revolvers have close quarters advantages over pistols. If you reach the point where the bad guy is pressed up against you a semi-auto barrel pressed against the bad guy may not fire as it may be out of battery. A revolver will. You can screw the barrel into the guy's forehead and still fire the weapon. You cannot guarantee that with a semi-auto.

For a weapon that you will carry with you always, and has significant put down power, the .357 snubbie is hard to beat. 

Going up in weight you can go to the S & W 640 in .357, and in solid stainless steel but at 22 - 24 ounces it will be noticeable on your waist and on your ankle.


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## JBarL (Sep 15, 2011)

well first off there is nothing wrong with the 357 mag or the 38 spl +p both are very good calibers. second sometimes magizine capacity isnt all what its up to believe. My advice and I used wheel guns along time and perfer them over all, is find a snubbie that will fit your hand and your wifes hand or heck even buy her one. then sign up to go through a Basic Pistol course through the NRA and you will be amazed how well you will both do in that class and learn different shooting stances and you will see you will not loose that much from a short barreled firearm. there is alot of personal defense ammo out there or what some call hot loads that will put a big ol BG guy down with 1 to 2 shots. but I will say this A shoot out will not last longer than 5 secs I promise you that. I always say someone who says a revolver wont do good in a shoot out Is just ask the Old cops who carried them for years they will sing a different song with them.


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