# Comparing the slide fit on three different 1911 brands



## Playboy Penguin (Jul 17, 2008)

In another thread someone asked me to compare my new Dan Wesson to my Colt as far as slide fit. I went ahead and took pics of my three favorite manufacturers...Colt, Springfield, and now Dan Wesson.

Here are the pics.

*Colt Commander*









*Springfield Armory Loaded Champion*









*Dan Wesson Classic Bobtail*


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## Fred40 (Jan 7, 2008)

Looks like in your case the DW wins. However....every gun is different and it's not to difficult to have a "slide to frame fit" performed on any 1911.


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## Playboy Penguin (Jul 17, 2008)

> Looks like in your case the DW wins. However....every gun is different and it's not to difficult to have a "slide to frame fit" performed on any 1911


This all just about beauty and attention to detail. I know for a fact that the Springer pictured, which probably has the least fit slide, can shoot quarter sized seven round groups at 25 yards.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Remember the general axiom:

loose - reliable
tight - accurate

The best argument for the DW over the others is NO MIM construction!


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## Fred40 (Jan 7, 2008)

submoa said:


> Remember the general axiom:
> 
> loose - reliable
> tight - accurate
> ...


Don't take this the wrong way (I think you are very knowledgeable and appreciate your information) but......you are OBSESSED with MIM parts! I understand your argument......but I think we get it already.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

I didn't know the DW was made without MIM parts. It would sway my decision.


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## bac1023 (Oct 26, 2007)

Actually, its more the barrel lockup that is a true indication of accuracy.


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## bac1023 (Oct 26, 2007)

Playboy Penguin said:


> In another thread someone asked me to compare my new Dan Wesson to my Colt as far as slide fit. I went ahead and took pics of my three favorite manufacturers...Colt, Springfield, and now Dan Wesson.
> 
> Here are the pics.
> 
> ...


Yeah, out of these three entry level 1911s, its no doubt that DW has the tightest fit.


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## Playboy Penguin (Jul 17, 2008)

bac1023 said:


> Yeah, out of these three entry level 1911s, its no doubt that DW has the tightest fit.


No one would consider these "entry level" 1911's. Granted they are not as expensive as jam-o-matic Les Baer's or over priced Ed Brown's but they are hardly Taurus or RIA either. 

They are as high end as I would go for a carry piece. It would be bad enough to have a carry gun jam on you but to have a $2500 one do it because a piece of pocket lint got on it would be downright embarrassing.


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## oak1971 (Apr 28, 2008)

Jam-0-matic? Have you ever owned a Les Baer or Ed Brown? I do. No jams here sir. If custom pistols are "over priced", why does the FBI use them? Why would anyone? I will tell you why. THEY ARE BETTER. I have owned both. And I for one would not go back to mil spec or "entry level". I ran 500 rounds through my Les Baer P2 with 1.5" accuracy at 50 yards without cleaning. No jams. And I defy you to find a tighter tolerance 1911 anywhere. It took months for me to save up for it and worth every cent. I know of one with over 50,000 rounds through it and still going strong, and accurate. It will still do 1 inch groups. Try running 50k through a mil spec and see what happens to your group size. :watching:


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## Playboy Penguin (Jul 17, 2008)

> Jam-0-matic? Have you ever owned a Les Baer or Ed Brown? I do. No jams here sir. If custom pistols are "over priced", why does the FBI use them


I am not a 1911 expert but even I know Les Baer are legendary for jamming after 100 rounds because of how excessively tight they are made. They are even known to be too tight to cycle easily by hand until broken in properly. Even Ed Brown disses them for the "less than zero movement" construction. As for why the FBI uses them, they do not pay nearly what we pay for them.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

oak1971 said:


> Jam-0-matic? Have you ever owned a Les Baer or Ed Brown? I do. No jams here sir. If custom pistols are "over priced", why does the FBI use them?


FBI does not use Les Baer.

Much marketing mileage has been made on the FBI SWAT and HRT teams' decision to use M1911 pistols. The road has been bumpy and some reputations have been damaged and made on the way. Les Baer was the first to get an FBI contract, but there were problems. Matt Gish made the grade but didn't have the production capability. Ultimately, Springfield Armory's production capability won the day. This is how it went down.

The Les Baer SRP was designed for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) to replace their Wayne Novak-customized Browning Hi-Powers. Les and his team of pistolsmiths started with a Para-Ordnance P14-45 frame (.45 ACP/14rds) and added a variety of custom parts and touches, including Wayne Novak's LoMount sights and Walter Birdsong's Black-T finish. Unfortunately, Matt Gish, the pistolsmith who did most of the work on the trial SRP pistols left Baer to start his own shop, Gunsmithing Inc.. Baer tried to cut some corners on the delivered contract pistols, including the use of a different finish than the Birdsong Black-T. Once delivery began, there were lots of problems, mostly magazine related. In the end, pistolsmith Steve Nastoff was called in to correct the delivered pistols' deficiencies. Only 75 SRP pistols were delivered out of the 250 ordered before the contract was canceled.

Following this experience, the FBI rewrote the specifications to stipulate a single stack magazine, which opened up the field to a whole lot of gunsmiths. In the end, Springfield Armory got the contract because they could meet the demand and warranty. But they also had problems. Again, Steve Nastoff was bought in - he was there during the trials - and Springfield Armory switched from Wilson Combat to Metalform magazines. The FBI has now increased its order to 200 pistols a year.

Springfield markets their TRP-Pro models as the HRT/SWAT guns.

Current FBI Agent issue is Glock 22 and 23 in Fobus holsters. Replaces SIG P228. 228s are still in the field and allowed for existing users.


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