# another holster question



## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

Just curious what most people prefer to wear.....

I bought a hip OWB/IWB holster, and a shoulder (horizontal) holster because I was not sure which I would like better.....

I'm a big guy so the hip holster was cumbersome and bumping into things a lot. So I'm going with the shoulder holster.... comfortable and concealed totally....


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

funkypunk97 said:


> Just curious what most people prefer to wear.....
> 
> I bought a hip OWB/IWB holster, and a shoulder (horizontal) holster because I was not sure which I would like better.....
> 
> I'm a big guy so the hip holster was cumbersome and bumping into things a lot. So I'm going with the shoulder holster.... comfortable and concealed totally....


I am a big guy also but don't bash my hip into things when I walk. An IWB holster handles my pistols just fine without damaging doorways. You might want to give the IWB enough time to mentaly adjust to it.

I don't like a loaded gun pointed at my armpit or my friends so will not wear a shoulder holster. I would think a jacket would be necessary to hide a shoulder rig and it is a bit to hot in Arizona for that.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

I prefer OWB, but usually only wear that when it's cold enough for a coat, much more comfortable. IWB the rest of the time.

I haven't even considered a shoulder rig. For the same reasons TOF mentioned.

This might shed some light also:

http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=4595


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Shoulder Holsters are not of much use in FL either... I carry IWB, either in a holster, or more often, with a belt clip... When it's cool enough for a jacket, maybe in another month or two, I'll carry OWB

Jeff


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## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

TOF said:


> I am a big guy also but don't bash my hip into things when I walk. An IWB holster handles my pistols just fine without damaging doorways. You might want to give the IWB enough time to mentaly adjust to it.
> 
> I don't like a loaded gun pointed at my armpit or my friends so will not wear a shoulder holster. I would think a jacket would be necessary to hide a shoulder rig and it is a bit to hot in Arizona for that.


Yeah can see your point....

But my harness sort of goes past my armpit and not into it..... as far as pointing at your friends behind you, well that I can understand.....wearing a jacket or a hoodie in NY is not big deal...lol...most of the year it is cold enough...

Maybe I will try getting used to the hip holster too..... problem is I don't always wear a belt but I guess I will have to start.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

A holstered pistol is a safe pistol. Galco has been making horizontal shoulder holsters for 40 years, and no one's been killed by one yet. Learn the proper drawstroke and you (and your buddies) will be fine.


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## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> A holstered pistol is a safe pistol. Galco has been making horizontal shoulder holsters for 40 years, and no one's been killed by one yet. Learn the proper drawstroke and you (and your buddies) will be fine.


Yeah I keep my index finger away from the trigger. I only draw with the top 3 fingers and let my pinkie hang off the bottom. Maybe that is slower but I don't have a round chambered anyway so I'm not looking for speed. I know some people will say an un-chambered gun is useless but I just don't feel safe otherwise. If I was going into an especially dangerous area perhaps.....


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

funkypunk97 said:


> Yeah I keep my index finger away from the trigger. I only draw with the top 3 fingers and let my pinkie hang off the bottom. Maybe that is slower but I don't have a round chambered anyway so I'm not looking for speed. I know some people will say an un-chambered gun is useless but I just don't feel safe otherwise. If I was going into an especially dangerous area perhaps.....




Good luck with that logic. If you don't feel safe with a loaded pistol, perhaps you shouldn't be handling any pistols at all...

-Jeff-


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> A holstered pistol is a safe pistol. Galco has been making horizontal shoulder holsters for 40 years, and no one's been killed by one yet. Learn the proper drawstroke and you (and your buddies) will be fine.


What data bank are you drawing that statement from Mike?

I know guns don't go off by themselves normaly, however, I have been associated with a lot of machines through the years that have failed in ways thought to be impossible. I managed an environmental test lab for a few years where we shake rattle and rolled all types of stuff for military and space applications. A lot of it broke at considerably lower force levels than anticipated.

I don't like being swept by a muzzle period. Given lack of compelling reasons to wear a shoulder rig I will refrain from sweeping friends and family or myself with a loaded gun thank you.
:smt1099


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

TOF said:


> What data bank are you drawing that statement from Mike?


Uhhh, the fact that Galco has never been notified (by a customer _or_ an attorney) about a pistol firing in a horizontal shoulder rig. Pistols fire when people press the trigger, not in properly-designed holsters.



> I don't like being swept by a muzzle period.


The overwhelming majority of shooters sweep their leg or foot when drawing from a strongside holster, especially IWBs. Put a laser on your pistol and watch the dot while you draw.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

I just can't see myself using a shoulder rig often enough to invest the time in training myself to use one properly. I've been carrying for so long on my waist, I'd probably reach for my waist first anyway.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Uhhh, the fact that Galco has never been notified (by a customer _or_ an attorney) about a pistol firing in a horizontal shoulder rig. Pistols fire when people press the trigger, not in properly-designed holsters.
> 
> The overwhelming majority of shooters sweep their leg or foot when drawing from a strongside holster, especially IWBs. Put a laser on your pistol and watch the dot while you draw.


If a gun had never fired without a finger pulling the trigger firing pins would still be on many hammers rather than the different "safer", not absolutely safe, methods currently in use.

I am not implying that the Holster is at fault. I am merely stating a well known fact that mechanisms designed and built by man can and do fail, be they planes, trains, automobiles or guns.

In regard to Galco being notified, I am willing to bet a lot of things have happened with Galco Holsters that Galco was not notified about. Some quantity are most likely resting in drawers because people changed their mind regarding their safety, comfort etc.


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## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

BeefyBeefo said:


> Good luck with that logic. If you don't feel safe with a loaded pistol, perhaps you shouldn't be handling any pistols at all...
> 
> -Jeff-


See I knew people would say this..... but how long does it take to rack the slide back? Maybe one second more? Maybe two seconds?

I feel confident enough that I can draw and chamber a round fast enough......

I've seen videos where people practice it and get it down to most typical draw times....

I don't think it is an issue with my incompetence.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

funkypunk97 said:


> See I knew people would say this..... but how long does it take to rack the slide back? Maybe one second more? Maybe two seconds?


Exactly. Maybe one...maybe two seconds _too_ long.



> I feel confident enough that I can draw and chamber a round fast enough......


That's great, but when presented with a stressful, and possibly life threatening situation...it may not be as automatic as you'd think.



> I've seen videos where people practice it and get it down to most typical draw times....


This practice is conducted in non-stressful, and non life-threatening environments/situations. This practice _could_ go right out the window when under such stress.



> I don't think it is an issue with my incompetence.


I never said it was. I'm simply stating that this might not be as easy as you'd think in every situation. If you have the time to rack the slide and chamber a round, then that's great. If not.....then what?

-Jeff-


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

TOF said:


> If a gun had never fired without a finger pulling the trigger firing pins would still be on many hammers rather than the different "safer", not absolutely safe, methods currently in use.


I will amend my statement to say that good modern pistols don't fire unless the trigger is pressed.



> In regard to Galco being notified, I am willing to bet a lot of things have happened with Galco Holsters that Galco was not notified about. Some quantity are most likely resting in drawers because people changed their mind regarding their safety, comfort etc.


In our litigious society, Galco most certainly would have heard about a pistol firing in the holster. We don't keep attorneys on retainer for nothing. 

We obviously have no idea how many holsters are sitting in drawers, but when I was deployed, I saw literally hundreds of horizontal shoulder rigs in use. Galco was the most common, followed by Gould & Goodrich. Miraculously, no one got shot in the chow line.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

funkypunk97 said:


> See I knew people would say this..... but how long does it take to rack the slide back? Maybe one second more? Maybe two seconds?


Yup. Only a second or two ..... in ideal situations.



funkypunk97 said:


> I feel confident enough that I can draw and chamber a round fast enough......


Have you done it under stress? Have you done it with a gun or knife in your face? Or even just some guy pushing and shoving you? What about if you're already being battered; down on the ground getting the s#*t kicked out of you? You going to have time to grab your gun AND chamber a round? Doubt it. How about fighting someone and they have one of your hands? Can you chamber a round one-handed? It sounds to me like you're making the dangerous assumption that you'll be a distance from trouble in an ideal situation with time to chamber a round and not with someone right in your face. That's not going to be the case all the time.

Fine motor skills go bye-bye under stressful situations (and add in the possibility of sweaty palms and fingers). I know that I sure don't want to waste that second or two or take the chance that I Butterfinger racking my slide to make my gun operational when my life, or more importantly, the life of my kids could be at stake. That second or two literally could mean the difference between life or death. Carry the way you want, but my $.02 is you may want to re-think your position on not having one in the chamber.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Defense guns carried on the person should have a round chambered. You can easily fumble when trying to rack the slide under deadly stress. You may also only have one hand available to fight.


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

funkypunk97 said:


> See I knew people would say this..... but how long does it take to rack the slide back? Maybe one second more? Maybe two seconds?
> 
> I feel confident enough that I can draw and chamber a round fast enough......
> 
> ...


I believe that the Israeli's carry their pistols without in a round in the chamber. I know that was the required carry method by the US military back when 1911 were the standard issue. I am pretty sure that the British military used to carry their Brownings in condition 3. The real problem, from my standpoint, with condition 3 is that normally it requires two hands to load the weapon (you can hook your rear sight on your belt and rack the slide that way or variations on that theme but it is hard on the gun and awkward). I guess another concern might be that if you are carrying a blow back pistol, like a 380, pulling back that slide is very hard, especially with such a small grasping surface.

I agree that carrying your weapon in condition 3 has nothing to do with incompetence. My former law partner was an ex-SF guy and by habit and training he always kept his pistols in condition 3.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

jeb21 said:


> I believe that the Israeli's carry their pistols without in a round in the chamber. I know that was the required carry method by the US military back when 1911 were the standard issue. I am pretty sure that the British military used to carry their Brownings in condition 3.


Pistols are secondary or tertiary weapons in the military. If you have a machinegun or rifle in your hands, the condition of your pistol is far less important than if it is your primary weapon. Anyway, current US Army doctrine calls for a loaded chamber when outside the wire.


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## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

Todd said:


> Yup. Only a second or two ..... in ideal situations.
> 
> Have you done it under stress? Have you done it with a gun or knife in your face? Or even just some guy pushing and shoving you? What about if you're already being battered; down on the ground getting the s#*t kicked out of you? You going to have time to grab your gun AND chamber a round? Doubt it. How about fighting someone and they have one of your hands? Can you chamber a round one-handed? It sounds to me like you're making the dangerous assumption that you'll be a distance from trouble in an ideal situation with time to chamber a round and not with someone right in your face. That's not going to be the case all the time.
> 
> Fine motor skills go bye-bye under stressful situations (and add in the possibility of sweaty palms and fingers). I know that I sure don't want to waste that second or two or take the chance that I Butterfinger racking my slide to make my gun operational when my life, or more importantly, the life of my kids could be at stake. That second or two literally could mean the difference between life or death. Carry the way you want, but my $.02 is you may want to re-think your position on not having one in the chamber.


Well as a former competition fighter in MMA, I fully understand what it is like to have to use fine motor skills in stressful situations while getting your butt kicked.....I do very well with people in my face as I've been there hundreds of times in competition and on the streets in life and death situations.

As far as the time goes if there is a gun in my face.... well truth be told as I've only CCW for a few weeks and I've studied martial arts my whole life, pulling the gun will probably not be my first line of defense at first instinct. When I was mugged at gunpoint in NYC in 1992 I would have had no time to pull a gun at all, even if I had it......so even a chambered gun will not always help you either. Nothing is fail safe, nothing at all......

I'm not making any dangerous assumptions. I fully understand the scope of my choice. And I am fully confident that my situational awareness will win out as it always has in all the 35 years before I've CCW.


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## Ptarmigan (Jul 4, 2008)

I prefer strong side OWB carry which is due to my law enforcement training. My first department did not allow shoulder holsters or cross draw. Similar to what Bruce mentioned, I go for my right hip when a gun may be needed purely out of habit. I do pocket carry a lot but I feel more comfortable with the OWB holster. I have recently ventured into the world of ankle holsters and I think I will like that a lot.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

funkypunk97 said:


> so even a chambered gun will not always help you either. Nothing is fail safe, nothing at all......


That's true. But, a loaded gun is also much _more_ likely to be of help than one that isn't.

-Jeff-


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## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

BeefyBeefo said:


> That's true. But, a loaded gun is also much _more_ likely to be of help than one that isn't.
> 
> -Jeff-


True..... and maybe after carrying a while I will feel different. Most of you guys have a lot more experience CCW which is why I come here.....

And the fact that most of you agree a round should be chambered is making me rethink my stance on it. :smt023


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

I hear that if you buy those cool black shoes with two toes, it's easier to get over your apprehensions about having one in the tube. :smt082:anim_lol::smt171

It is daunting to consider that there's a bullet just waiting for you to screw up. Best I can tell you is, Don't screw up! Deliberate motions when handling a gun until you are completely familiar with it's functions, but never get complacent. That's when they bite you.


Either way though, plan on buying a few, if not a lot of holsters until you find the "perfect one". I have a box full of old holsters.

Zhur


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