# Lawful, or not?



## redcards (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm curious; is leaving a firearm in a vehicle parked in a carry-restricted area any different than actually carrying in that area (i.e a college campus)? Obviously there is a difference in the likelihood that it will be discovered, but by chance that it is found in a vehicle, is it still against the law and what are the penalties? Can this vary from state to state? 

I don't intend to start a discussion of illegal activities; just trying to gain knowledge to ensure I stay within my rights.


----------



## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Yes it's against the law to have it in the car or on your person loaded or unloaded. That's pretty much a national thing.


----------



## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Baldy said:


> Yes it's against the law to have it in the car or on your person loaded or unloaded. That's pretty much a national thing.


Except some colleges in Utah I think.

To get to the question, if the area is restricted, then having the gun anywhere in that area is illegal. For your example, the college is restricted, the parking lot is their property, therefore you'd be in violation of the law if you had the gun in the car and on their property.


----------



## Joeywhat (Apr 17, 2008)

In MI you are allowed to have the loaded weapon in your vehicle as long as the parking lot is not private property and the owner has explicitly stated that they do not allow firearms. For instance, a public hospital, schools/colleges, churches, and casino are all acceptable places to carry your weapon, as long as it remains in the vehicle. I believe for the school you have to be the legal guardian of a child that you are picking up/dropping off.

To further clarify, I work for Ford, and they do not allow any firearms on their property. The MI law does not allow for a weapon to be carried there, as it is private property and thus MI has no jurisdiction.

Reference:
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html


----------



## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I guess it would help if we knew what state you were in? As you can see, laws differ from state to state. Great example is how Joeywhat has said it's OK to carry on school property if you're the parent of the kid. Here in NC, it's a felony if the gun is loaded and a misdemeanor if it's not, to even bring a gun anywhere on school grounds.

Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/ That site might have the answers as well. Additionally, a call to your local PD or AG would also get you the answer.


----------



## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

It does vary from state to state. Check with your states laws.


----------



## redcards (Apr 16, 2008)

Thanks for the replies so far everyone. My state is Kentucky. I checked on the handgunlaws.us website for restricted areas in KY (sections *A* and *B*) as well as the car carry laws (section *C*). Here were the sections that were most relevant.

_*A.* (CCW is prhobited from) Elementary or secondary school facilities or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education._

_*B.* Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises._

_*C. *A firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person if it is located in a glove compartment, regularly installed in a motor vehicle by its manufacturer, regardless of whether said compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism. No person or organization, public or private, shall prohibit a person from keeping a firearm or ammunition, or both, or other deadly weapon in a glove compartment of a vehicle in accordance with the provisions of this subsection._

My interpretation of *Section A* states that property of college/university restrictions do not apply, however I wouldn't carry anyway because the buildings themselves do have postings.

My concern lies within my glove box, so that I don't have to remove my gun from my truck every time I go somewhere that may be restricted, but as* Sections B and C* state, as long as I leave the gun in my glove box, without revealing it on the premises, it doesn't matter where I am, I am still within my rights.

Again, the last two are my primary concern. I would like to see how others interpret this as well to see if I've understood correctly. Thanks everyone for the help, as well as the site link, Todd.


----------



## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

redcards said:


> I would like to see how others interpret this as well to see if I've understood correctly.


Call your AG or whoever handles your CCW permit and get _their _answer, which will be the _right_ answer. They're not going to black list or red flag you for calling and asking a question. Our interpretation of the law isn't going to mean squat if you get caught carrying where you thought it was OK based on what guys here said, but it turned out we were wrong.

So grab the phone, make the call, and then let us know what they said! :smt023


----------



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm in Kentucky as well (at UK in Lexington). To my knowledge, there are no state or federal statutes that prohibit carry of a deadly weapon on college campuses. At UK, they can't arrest you for carrying a deadly weapon unless you are trespassing (meaning you have no valid reason for being on campus grounds). However, UK reserves the right to expel any students who are found guilty of carrying a deadly weapon on campus. I'm not sure how it works with UofL, but I imagine it's the same (but don't take my word for it). If I decide to CC on campus, I'm not breaking any laws, however I am breaking UK's policy. IMO, if I chose to carry on campus, nobody should ever know I'm carrying unless I actually needed to draw and defend myself. If I happened to be carrying while on campus grounds and was assaulted or robbed, or was presented with any other situation that warrants the use of deadly physical force in self protection, I would not hesitate to do so. I'd rather get expelled than die. While I'm not suggesting breaking a university's policy, at least at UK, I'm not breaking the law if I carry on campus. If I was not a student, faculty, or staff member and I was trespassing on UK's campus with a deadly weapon, I could be arrested. But as a student, no. The worst thing that can happen is expulsion.

I forget exactly where I read this, but I'll try to find it. If you find you're under the same rules and restrictions as I am as a college student, use your best judgement. I would feel much more threatened at UofL than UK...UofL's not in the best section of town. However, with the increasing number of assaults, robberies, and rapings at UK, you can't be too careful. I have a pass for a parking garage that borders campus, and I usually take night classes that put me in the parking garage hours after dark. I can't recall a time that I felt I needed a gun to protect myself, but if the situation arose, I'd feel better with a .45 on my hip.


----------



## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Iowa is a "May Issue" state so it's definitely different. Even if you have a CCW permit in Iowa you can't be ANYWHERE on the college campus with a weapon (even driving through....which sucks.) So, as mentioned above, I would contact the authorities and ask in a very polite manner to get the TRUE answer to your question (if it were me, I would call a few times to a few different places to see if the answer differed at all, but that's just me...IE: campus police, city police, county sheriff's, etc.)



fivehourfrenzy said:


> The worst thing that can happen is expulsion.


I'm not saying you mean it that way, but you make it sound like it's not big deal. I know you probably don't mean it that way, but that is a HUGE deal. We have people get caught cheating here that get expelled and it goes on your permanent record (once again, I don't know about your state, but I assume it's similar).

-Jeff-


----------



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

BeefyBeefo said:


> I'm not saying you mean it that way, but you make it sound like it's not big deal. I know you probably don't mean it that way, but that is a HUGE deal. We have people get caught cheating here that get expelled and it goes on your permanent record (once again, I don't know about your state, but I assume it's similar).
> 
> -Jeff-


It's a big deal, but my point is that you won't get any jail time or a felony marked on your record. If you were breaking state and federal laws and did get jailed, you'd get expelled regardless. That won't happen, only expulsion.


----------



## Black Metal (Jan 16, 2008)

In Utah we are allowed to carry on any public school property ( this makes it illegal to carry at BYU or any of the other private colleges) elementry thru college as long as the weapon is concealed ( in any other place that you can legally carry you can Open Carry a loaded firearm as long as you have a cfp). They are currently trying to pass a law that will make it legal to have your firearm in your vehicle even where your not permitted to carry under the fact that your vehicle is still your private property even when its on someone else's land.


----------



## TampaSsgt (Apr 3, 2008)

redcards said:


> Thanks for the replies so far everyone. My state is Kentucky. I checked on the handgunlaws.us website for restricted areas in KY (sections *A* and *B*) as well as the car carry laws (section *C*). Here were the sections that were most relevant.
> 
> _*A.* (CCW is prhobited from) Elementary or secondary school facilities or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education._
> 
> ...


From the sections highlighted in red, I would say that according to Kentucky law it would be legal for you to leave your firearm locked in your vehicle on school property.

As an ex-LEO from Ohio, I would recommend that you contact your county prosecutor office and get his interpretation of these sections of law. :smt023


----------



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

http://www.uky.edu/StudentAffairs/Greek/UKweapons.pdf

There's no law against concealed carry on UK's campus, but UK can still expel you because it's part of their policy.


----------



## Kyle1337 (Mar 22, 2008)

I'm here in New Mexico all college campuses or at least most of them do allow CCW, I've even seen CCW clubs listed in the school papers I went to two colleges here and I carried, no signs and I asked security, they told me not to tell anyone I'm carrying (CONCEAL carry weapon...duh!) I work on private property land, and they don't allow weapons, that means even in my car, if your on private property and they're a no go for ccw you are breaking the law, private property rules override weapon rights....at least here in NM.


----------



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm a member of SCCC (students for concealed carry on campus) at UK, and I've talked to our SCCC president numerous times about carrying on campus. From what he said, getting caught by one of the UK police officers would probably just get you yelled at, nothing more, but UK can still kick you out. IMO, no one should ever know you're carrying when you're carrying concealed, so if that were the case, getting busted wouldn't be an issue. Gotta be careful about it though since breaking UK's deadly weapons policy is a bit more than breaking the alcohol policies. There were two students in my dorm sophomore year that got busted with weed and they were both expelled. It's not like I'd be the only one breaking UK policies, but when it involves a gun, it's treated differently.


----------



## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

redcards said:


> Thanks for the replies so far everyone. My state is Kentucky. I checked on the handgunlaws.us website for restricted areas in KY (sections *A* and *B*) as well as the car carry laws (section *C*). Here were the sections that were most relevant.
> 
> _*A.* (CCW is prhobited from) Elementary or secondary school facilities or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education._
> 
> ...


As mentioned, laws vary from state to state but....................if you are allowed to and choose to keep a firearm locked up (secured) in your vehicle on a school campus, I would highly suggest you make every effort to keep it from being stolen, borrowed, etc. by someone. If a kid was looting vehicles, found your gun, and then injured himself or someone else, the civil suit to follow would probably be much worse than any criminal penalties! That is when phone calls start costing $300 + per billable hour!!!! :smt022


----------



## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Charlie said:


> That is when phone calls start costing $300 + per billable hour!!!! :smt022


And believe me, it hurts to pay that much just to talk to someone. I know because our hour long phone conversation last week with my son's Autism doctor cost us $385 (our insurance does not cover phone consults either). It's not something you want to do on a regular basis.

I should have been a doctor, if only I was good at the science stuff.


----------

