# Concealed vs education with children



## rahlquist (Nov 29, 2007)

Ok yall, whats your 2 cents on this one? How are you handling it with your kids, or if you dont have any how did your folks handle you? I have a very bright 5 year old daughter. When my wife brought our first gun into the house last year we showed it to our daughter, explained to her that to touch it is to invite death (she understands death in a way no 5yr old should) and she had kept a healthy distance ever since. We did tell her we would teach her how to handle it when she was older and she has expressed interest in a .22 ruger at the shop my wife made her purchase at and we even let her handle it.

So how about yall?

And so that nobody else has to say it, *none of the comments in this thread is advice or even a good idea so if you choose to emulate someones method you're on your own.* I'd just like to hear what yall would do.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I've always been completely open with my daughter about my guns and carrying. When she was six, I got her an airgun. She got a single-shot .22 rifle at nine, then a semi-auto .22 at twelve. I have also instructed her in pistol shooting, starting when she was about ten. If she ever wanted to see one of my guns, she had only to ask and I unloaded and showed it to her.

She can recite the Four Rules on demand, and has been able to do so since she was six. I have always emphasized safe gunhandling with her. She is totally accustomed to seeing a pistol on my hip.

This has completely eliminated her curiosity regarding firearms. She's fifteen now, and for years I have said that I could leave a loaded and cocked pistol on the dining table, and she would just walk past it and shout to let me know I stupidly left my gun on the table. I have zero concerns with her around any of my guns, and I trust her completely.

Our one caveat has been the Barham Household's First Rule of Concealed Carry: *We Don't Talk About Carrying Guns*. The fewer people - outside close family and other gun carriers - who know we carry the better off we are. Hannah has never uttered a peep to anyone, as far as I know, about the fact that my wife and I are gun carriers.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm a lot like Mike on this one. take the curiosity away ans teach them to respect and keep their mouth closed in public about it. My daughter, who is seven, sometimes feels mine on me in public and just gives me that look to let me know that she knows and it's our secret.


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## rahlquist (Nov 29, 2007)

Thanks Mike, that sounds about the route we will be taking. My wife grew up with guns as her father has the kind of job where he carries. In addition my wife is fortunate in that she can speak of when she and her brother were both shot (she took 2 .22cal hollow points and her brother took 6 or 7 nobody was ever able to determine for sure) and she fears no one. I've watched her scream down a gang banger telling him she would wait while he went home to get his gun. 

Me, I come from a gun free California family but have a healthy respect for them and want my kid to have the same, and I cant wait to get my .40 s&w.

When/if your daughter has friends over do you make sure guns are out of sight or do you expect her to keep her friends in line?


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

The extent of my gun training as a child was that they were evil and only cops and criminals had them. So if I saw someone with a gun and they were not wearing a police uniform, they were a criminal. My father kept at that until very recently, actually, and I'm now 28. He actually went to my first gun show with me and walked around talking like that for an hour. I try to keep him away from gun shows now. But he sort of let up on it - only sort of - after my mom bought her first rifle. You can't keep saying that because then your wife is apparently a homicidal maniac.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I was just about born with a rifle in my hand. I can't even remember not being around guns. On a farm they are a tool just like a knife and wrench. You hunted to eat. I trained my kids from when they were very little. We went shooting and taught them safty and everything I could. Today only one still shoots some but they all know how to handle a gun.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

I am very much like Mike on this. I started my son off teaching him safety and proper handling. The rule has always been if you want to see my gun all you need do is ask and I will stop what I am doing, unload it and let him take a look. I completely removed the curiosity from him, pretty much since birth. By the time he was 5 if he wanted to see a gun I would ask him what do you do first, he answers put out the bullets. I would then unload it hand it to him and he would push the mag release, pull back the slide and inspect the chamber, look at it for about 17 seconds then hand it back. He is now 9 and the only time he shows any interest in guns is when we shoot his bb gun or his airsoft guns in the back yard. He also has never mentioned me having a gun to anyone, ever. I have an adult friend that just got the runs of the mouth and ratted me out once, but never my son.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

rahlquist said:


> When/if your daughter has friends over do you make sure guns are out of sight or do you expect her to keep her friends in line?


Yeah, the last few years she has been dragging some goofy kids around. Not a problem, though, since the guns are either on our persons, in the safe, or in a night table drawer right next to us when we bed down for the night. None are unsecured when the goofy teenage friends come over.

I trust my child. I do not trust other people's children.


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Yeah, the last few years she has been dragging some goofy kids around. Not a problem, though, since the guns are either on our persons, in the safe, or in a night table drawer right next to us when we bed down for the night. None are unsecured when the goofy teenage friends come over.
> 
> I trust my child. I do not trust other people's children.


Have you trained your daughter on how to handle the peer pressure when one of her friends finds an accidently "unsecured" gun?

I think you can teach your children to have respect for guns and to handle them safely. However, a child's interest and curiosity for guns will never go away. If it did, we adults would no longer be interested in them.

Training and properly securing your guns is all you've got to protect them. So we have to stay on guard all the time.

Even the best of children make errors in judgment. Remember that the frontal lobes do not fully mature until we are in our early 20's. That is the part of the brain that is responsible for reasoning, judgment, impulse control, etc. So it is important that we do not expect our children to show the same good judgment as we do (hopefully) until they are adults.

WM


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I am acutely aware of my weapons, and have yet to lose track of a gun, or leave one "accidentally unsecured." Most of the guns stay in the safe unless I need them. I think I can make it two more years until she heads off to U of A. ;-)

Sadly, the kid has pretty much lost all interest in guns and shooting. At this point, the best I can hope is that she sees guns as practical defense tools when she's an adult. But that's okay.

My new kid project is my Little Brother. Uphill battle with that organization. Have to get written permission from the mom to let him touch a gun. I'll work on it when I get home.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

This is a good topic. I'm glad you brought it up.

My oldest of three is about 10, and youngest 7. The guns are no mystery to them. They can (mostly) recite the four rules, and I trust that they would know what to do upon discovering a firearm outside of our house (ours are always secured or on my person.) 

They have varying interest in firearms, most of the time they are interested in going to the range where I let them fire my old bolt action .22. I think it's good for them to be familliar with firearms, not mystified by them. Sometimes they even help me clean them too!

I'm not sure it's the best practice, but they generally don't know that I carry when we go out. Being as young as the little ones are, I don't expect them to be discreet about such things. The deep topic of "why do you carry a gun" is too deep for a 7 year old I think too.

As far as keeping the topic of firearms "off limits", I've told them that it's not a topic that we bring up, but that there's no need to hide it if it comes up. 

A funny related story: After recieving an invitation to my daughter's birthday party, a new friend asked her if there were any "guns" in the house. My daughter replied that there were (I'm sure quite casually, as if she had been asked if there were tools in the garage.) Apparently, this is one of her friend's "house rules" that she must ask of any friend that she visits. Rather odd, but her mother later called and explained to my wife their rule, and despite our secure firearms, they don't make exceptions. 

I'd understand if they were afraid of the pool. That's a much bigger risk...


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I started education when my kids were about 3 with a watermelon and they had to put it back together again. then when they got a little older they started shooting always drilling safety first last and always. Ended up teaching many, many children the same lessons and still work with 3 deputies teaching youth firearm safety classes.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Pretty much the same as above. I've been brought up around guns all my life. As a kid growing up it wasn't so much 'sit down and listen' stuff.
I learned a lot by example. Seeing what those you respect do can be as good as any class in some casses. Also, when Uncle Sam grabbed me by the collar, I got an even more intense education. I would also think for those who are anti-2nd amenment (God given) rights, It would be a good idea to teach their young'n to respect firearms just for GP.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

my dad did not have a gun in the house or talk of guns
i read a lot of guns and ammo and 
COL JEFF COOPER


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

OOOPS
when i was 18-21
then when i turned 21 the first thing i did was not get drunk but bought a pistol


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I don't have kids (geneticly), but my Fiance's "kids" (15, 18, and 21) all grew up around guns. Their father did a good job of locking them up, and teaching them pretty well. The girls (18 and 21) have both shot at the range with us. Both are competent, safe, and comfortable with guns. They are very mature and responsible with everything but money... The 18 year-old shoots really well, but as an 18 year old, has no interest.

Her (pretty much "our") 15 yr old son is Autistic. He is a VERY "high-functioning" with his condition, with only communication issues, not behavioral issues. That said, when you speak directly to him, he hears, and understands everything. He is a video-game fanatic, but he understands the BIG difference between, HALO 3, his Air-soft AK-47, and our real guns. JUST IN CASE there is curiosity, all the guns are locked in a safe, in a locked closet, in a locked bedroom. (Except the one on my hip)

He shoots my 22 now, and shoots almost as well as I do... When he's 16-18, he'll shoot my 9mm's, but likely, he'll never own his own gun. His attention span is about 5 minutes... lol, but he's fascinated at the range.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

My Father started teaching me on how to handle guns when i was really young. he had a single shot 12 gauge that was on his side of the bed. He didn't leave it loaded but I was taught that empty guns kill people every day so you never handle one in a unsafe manner and until i was an adult i was never to hold one period unless he was there. I learned quick that I didn't like being on his bad side so I never touched that weapon unless he was there and said so.

I wont leave any of my guns out where they can be handled by anyone. If it's not on my person it's locked down. The one I have with me will go into a nightstand table that ha a locking drawer and I have the only key. and I sleep with that. I have taught my kids somewhat the same as i was taught and for them to not handle any firearm unless with me and they do listen. My youngest is 9 and I have a cricket single shot 22 and a Ruger Mark III that I take him to my private shooting range and we work on emptying ammo boxes. 

I always believed that in one was to try to teach out right fear will blow up in ones face and when dealing with this kind of subject matter that can get really ugly really fast. Sure kids will get curious and sure they will have friends that will try to get them to do a lot of things they don't need to. i try to teach the kids that peer pressure is just a way for people that are not really your friends to get you to do something that you really don't need to do. I am hoping that line of thought will work across the board and keep them from grabbing Dad's guns and going on a spree or pawning them for money for more bad things.

Is there a "right way" to educate? I am hoping that my way is at least close. but I also do my part to try and keep temptation out of their hands when it comes to what's in Dad's safes :smt083

I don't want them to fear guns or me but I want them to know just what a firearm can so in mishandled too. So far so good:smt023 I also want them to understand their rights when they become adults. Rights un-exersized often are not rights long so protect the ones that the Hillerys of this country have not found a way to take..just yet anyway.


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

i have been around and handled guns from an early age. my uncle took me shooting often in the woods near his home when.
when i was 7yrs old he put the rifle in my hands and told me, with this you are the equal of any man in power.
he also taught me to treat guns as though they were always loaded and that they were not for playing around with, that they were serious business.i understood all he meant.


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## Sheepdog45 (Jan 24, 2008)

*For me... I was 10*

I was exposed to BB/pellet rifle at 7, but to firearms at 10. I am now a NRA Instructor and have been working my kids for the last three years. They are currently 11, 14 and 17 and can shoot skeet, trap, 22 rifle, and several of the handguns I own. They have a healthy respect for weapons, and always observe the four main rules. They clean their own guns after shooting and really seem to enjoy shooting sports.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

As you can see here we start them out young in the swamp. She does have her own way of doing cases up. Going to get her going with the .22's this summer.


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## kenn (Dec 13, 2007)

*That's Awesome*



stormbringerr said:


> when i was 7yrs old he put the rifle in my hands and told me, with this you are the equal of any man in power.


A little off-topic, but your uncle just summed up the reason for the 2nd Am. and the pragmatic/historical argument for democracy vs. monarchy/theocracy in one sentence. It's hard to be an oppressive king when the "Peasants" are armed.


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## cupsz71 (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm glad I came accros this thread. My wife and I were confronted with a ton of questions from our kids upon our return from our "_date-night_" of shooting at the range on Monday. We in turn sat them down and had a family meeting and expanded on the rules concerning the guns in the house - why we owned them - what they would be used for - and also opened a Q&A session about the mechanics of how the guns we own work. Up until now it has basically been - don't ask - don't touch - don't tell - it's nobody's business - we'll explain what we feel you need to know when your ready to understand.

From what I've read so-far it seems the majority of members get their kids "_involved"_ at what ever level the they the parents deem as acceptable.
Kid's varing degree of age/maturity/personality/experience - in reality voids any "_step-by-step_" rules _(other than the 4 MAJOR ones_) to go by.

I didn't have the advantage of growing up in a "_gun family_". Some of my friends hunted with their fathers who took me along and gave me the basic do's & don'ts but that was the extent of it, and sadly I did develop some serious bad habits when I started shooting gophers with a _"borrowed_" 22LR.

However, I did MARRY into a "_gun family_" in my mid 20's and was promptly "_re-educated_" by my father-in-law. Until very recently both my wife & myself only shot when we visited in the summer. I brought my RUGER .22 along & shot my in-laws guns, but that was the extent of it. During that time my kids were taught just basic handling of a BB gun bought by their grandfather. I watched by, and let him take the lead on any early gun education and chimed in when nessesary.

An education & understanding of handguns & how to use them had been left out till this point up until last Oct. As part of my job I was involved in putting together a advertising campaign for a new local Sports Shop. A a result of that I was re-introduced to handguns and the range atmosphere surrounding it. As pure coincence - the father-in-law gave my wife his RUGER pistol & I then decided to buy my Beretta 92FS. I then bought her BERSA in Dec. We've both taken as many safety courses we can provided by our local range and I've gone as far as to certify/receive for my CCW permit and we shoot at minumum 1 night every 2 wks. I've also been reading endless info provided by forums like this one, and picking the brains of those w/more experience.

I have 2 boys - 15 & 11.

When I joined the range discovered the youth program, my youngest jumped at the chance so I signed him up immediately. His older brother passed. He did however sign-up for a school offered hunters safety course out of the blue this semester? I've in turn signed up my youngest & myself for the same course offered thru the range in March.

I guess as a conclusion to this long-winded opinion is that I'm trying no to let my past youthfull "inexperience" hinder my efforts to re-enforce safety & a healthy respect for guns. Encouage questions & explain how/why they are used without the fear factor and to curb their natural curiosity down to a manageable acceptance level.

I salute all of you who take the time & effort.

-


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

Taught my 3 boys the difference in weight and feel at 3-4 with an unloaded gun...taught how to point and where not to...as soon as they hit 7 or 8, had them shooting real handguns....38, .40, .45, and .357-they all loved it...my 14-year-old has had his own .38 since he was 12...it's loaded in his room with extra ammo...hidden in a place few could find it but he can get it fast...then he can get to a .20 ga. pump in my room...he can shoot my .38 Bodyguard and P90 as well as I can...would be a formidable asset if we were invaded....he's the youngest...his mom hates guns and has no idea....but he could save her life easily...I can't see having a problem and being gone with my guns locked up...leaving my family defenseless....if a child has attitude problems or has proved themself untrustworthy, that changes things....we teach them to use the car and drive...that's a lot more dangerous!!! Train and teach all we can...they're the defense of America in the next generation....


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## cvillechopper (Jan 27, 2008)

Like cups, I didn't grow up in a family that embraced guns. Starting a family of my own, we've moved to an area far from the tight little community atmosphere in which I was raised. We're far enough away from help that I don't want my wife (and hopefully kids soon) to be unprotected. 

My wife's dad owned a gun shop and she's always been around guns. Basically I'm planning on letting her lead on how to handle the introduction of weapons to the kids and how to teach them the required respect. 

Truthfully, I've never been completely calm with a gun. There's still a sense of excitement and it irritates me. I'm planning on joining the local gun club so I can get more familiar with the sensation. How can you teach a child that a gun is not a toy when part of you still reacts as though it were?


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