# The Ongoing Caliber Debate



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

There has been a lot of discussion and debate on this subject, and it seems to never go away simply b/c there are some who seem to think they need to defend their coveted round, or that perhaps there are conspiracies behind pushing certain rounds. I don't know, maybe there could be some of the latter, but couldn't it also be that those who actually use guns for a living might have a vested interest in determining what round is best for their intended purpose? 

I've read that lack of training is the reason behind why the FBI or other LE agencies push the 9mm, or that there are political aspirations behind said agendas. I suppose there could be some truth to that, but what about the fact that the military uses the 9mm as its primary sidearm? The military does not really spend much time pistol training as compared to rifle training. But the special operators do spend ample time training with the pistol, and most of them choose to use a 9mm. Could it be that the truth is that there really is not enough of a difference in terminal ballistics btwn the 9mm, .40 and .45 to make that much of a difference? Could it be that it is actually smarter to use the 9mm b/c it is less expensive to produce/purchase, it is just as effective in the hands of a trained operator, and it gives you more ammunition to fight with? 

Personally, I don't use the 9mm b/c it is the best bullet out there. I use it b/c it makes the most sense to me. I have trained with all the major rounds from .380 to .45, and although I am very accurate with all of them (I can qualify with all of them) the simple truth is that for me, I can get better results with a 9mm. Couple that with the fact that the terminal ballistics really do not vary all that much, the bullet is more plentiful, less expensive, gives me more rounds to use and just as effective, why wouldn't I choose it? 

Now as I've said, it does not matter to me what anyone uses. They are all good rounds for defense. I do not advocate for the 9mm or against the .40. Use what you think is best for you. What I do is post things that I think are relevant and that others might see as useful. It is never intended to start an argument or to prove someone else wrong. That just isn't my agenda. I will discuss subjects and make a case for what I believe is true, but at the end of the day, it really does not matter if someone doesn't believe that LE agencies are starting to move away from the .40 or if they think the 9mm is crap. It's all subjective and personal preference with regard to what you use as ammunition, and if you dont' want to believe the truth, well then that's up to you. When it is all said and done, I think we all would agree it is better to carry than not to carry, and it is not only our right, but duty to do so.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

"and if you dont' want to believe the truth,"

Hah. I hope you aren't intending to be impartial there. Anyway, it should be *TRUTH*, not truth when you are on the stump. You are probably right not to call God as your witness because, I think, he uses a .600 Nitro Express revolver.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Bullet placement (_i.e._, accuracy) trumps ballistics, every time.
Above about .32 ACP, bullet diameter really doesn't matter...if your shots are dead-on accurate and delivered quickly.
Sometimes velocity matters, but not so much at very close range. Sometimes bullet mass matters, but not so much at very close range.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

hillman said:


> "and if you dont' want to believe the truth,"
> 
> Hah. I hope you aren't intending to be impartial there. Anyway, it should be *TRUTH*, not truth when you are on the stump. You are probably right not to call God as your witness because, I think, he uses a .600 Nitro Express revolver.


I would say that my position is that in most cases, it does not matter what you use wrt bullet choice as long as you choose a quality round. It's better to have a .22 than nothing, but above all, placement is paramount. As I said, I don't care what anyone chooses, and I wouldn't turn any of it down, but all things being equal, and if I have a choice, most of the time I will choose a 9mm.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

The only thing worse than an oil debate, is a firearm caliber debate. 

BTW.....Mobil 1 rules. :smt033


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

The debate is over. I just talked to God and, as you might expect, he does not use or need any caliber. He did, however, bless and sanctify the caliber I am using. He also put his seal of approval on Mobil 1, which I use in my truck, car, motorcycle, and lawnmower. I hope this final word is beneficial to everyone.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

So let it be written. So let it be done.


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## slayer61 (Aug 4, 2014)

TurboHonda said:


> The debate is over. I just talked to God and, as you might expect, he does not use or need any caliber. *He did, however, bless and sanctify the caliber I am using*. He also put his seal of approval on Mobil 1, which I use in my truck, car, motorcycle, and lawnmower. I hope this final word is beneficial to everyone.


You ARE using 9mm, right? :smt082 :anim_lol::smt082 :anim_lol::smt082


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

slayer61 said:


> You ARE using 9mm, right? :smt082 :anim_lol::smt082 :anim_lol::smt082


Can't say. That's between me and God. 'sides, I don't want to start a run of panic buying.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

The caliber debate is a good one. I have learned alot in the process. I think it is safe to say they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Everyone should way the options and go with what they are confident with. As long as its a Glock what difference does it make what caliber it is.:smt102


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## ArmedGuard81 (Sep 23, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 Yes Sir well said


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## almanor (Jun 15, 2013)

I have enjoyed the discussion here on caliber, That said I prefer my 45 acp, but mostly because that is what I have and what I shoot most. I have shot several other guns of friends, both 9mm and 40 . I find I am more accurate with the 45 than either of the other sizes, but then again that is what I have the most practice with. I did find that both the 9mm and 40 had more felt recoil in my hand, probably because they are much lighter. One 9mm a friend had was a real saturday night special, he got it just for its small size and it was cheap. Neither of us could reliably hit a torso sized target beyond 15 feet. I could throw it more accurately VBG. It also slapped your hand real hard with each shot. I told him then I would stick to my gun he was welcome


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

God did send us the answer through his Saint John M. Browning. The 1911 in 45 acp.
The military went to the 9 mm because of N.A.T.O. and to have uniformity in ammo but that has already fallen apart.
The best round is the one you can hit the target with because a hit with anything is better that 1,000 misses with any caliber.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

tony pasley said:


> God did send us the answer through his Saint John M. Browning. The 1911 in 45 acp...


:smt038 :smt038 :smt038

John Moses Browning, our Latter-Day Saint who was in Utah, hallowed be his name... :smt083


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## slayer61 (Aug 4, 2014)

Surely, I'm not the only one with 9mm AND 45, right? :buttkick:


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

slayer61 said:


> Surely, I'm not the only one with 9mm AND 45, right? :buttkick:


Of course not. I use several calibers for various applications. I use 9mm and a box of newspapers for living room practice.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

slayer61 said:


> Surely, I'm not the only one with 9mm AND 45, right? :buttkick:


Nope, I still have 1 9mm left, a 22 and 5 or 6 45s- why did I part with the others?

I've heard the boys in the sandbox don't think highly of the 9 because they have to use too many rounds to drop someone, but I haven't talked to any back personally. I put the military in a different category than LE or SD use though because they are mandated to use FMJ and it's for a secondary arm. Some of the old timers around during the switch said the recoil and split times were a little better but the 45 seemed to hit them harder.

I have a little different view in the SD category. In the 9 vs. 40 vs. 45 debate you can find data throughout the years that says the 3 are pretty equal in performance and others that say no, I don't get hung up on it. I've carried the 357, 9 and 45 but I've always been a 45 fan and have more time and rounds through one than anything else, so that's what I still carry.

For a civilian carry I look at it this way, be it a 380 or 45 in FMJ or the new wonder HP, it's going to hurt like hell and I sure don't want to take another. Your average criminal will agree. Now, if you find yourself in harm's way due to job or locale, I would consider caliber and bullet design a little more critically. Personally, I don't feel undergunned with a heavy well designed HP in anything over a 380 and if I need more than that I'm grabbing a rifle, pistols are a sidearm for a reason in the military.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

TurboHonda said:


> ...I use 9mm and a box of newspapers for living room practice.


:anim_lol: :anim_lol: :anim_lol:


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Yes I must confess I do own 3- 9mm pistols all 3 are variations of the P 08 luger.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Heck, I don't even badmouth the .380 any more (much). Too many people who didn't know how much it sucks have saved their own lives (and others) with one.

Bottom line, I guess, is that a person bent on survival will find some tool that will get the job done. I'll still go with the biggest gun I can conceal, personally, but if I don't have one, I'll use whatever I can get my hands on. A cool head and determination make up for a lot of deficiencies.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Bisley, I think that's one of the best explanations I've heard, ever.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

While I carry a .45 ACP, I own pistols in 9mm and .40 as well. With good defense ammo, any caliber will do the job if you do your part regarding shot placement. When I'm lazy I often carry a beat up KelTec PF9 and I'm confident it could get me out of trouble...


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## jeager106 (Sep 27, 2014)

Ohhhhhh, nooooooooooooooooooo. Another caliber debate thread.
It's been mentioned shot placement is the supreme consideration.
Of course I agree.
Next in importance, in my opinion, is bullet performance.
Caliber comes last, within reason. I have no use for the .22 r.f. or .25 auto and will toss in the .32s also.
I carry or have real handy a .45 a.c.p., (OR) a .40, a .357, a 12 gauge & an AR, depending upon where I am & with whom.
A 9mm handgun could be close by at times & ALL defensive firearms are loaded with premium ammo.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

My favorite calibers? The one I have on me.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

berettatoter said:


> My favorite calibers? The one I have on me.


Good point. 45 ACP has been my favorite caliber for 34 years now. It comforts me like nothing else can. I love to reload it, I love to shoot it, it's close to my heart. I would hate to get shot with that gun.

But the real reality of things is that it is NEVER with me. I have decided that something is better than nothing and anything beats throwing fish hooks.....sooooo the gun that is with me is the most important one, but it's not my favorite. Not even close. I merely tolerate it and wish it was a .45.

My Air Weight S&W Bodyguard was always with me. Small, weak and nasty to shoot...but it was always there. Always there counts for a lot and as I said...something is much better than nothing at all. But still it's just a .38. Compared to the .45 it was laughable so I sold it and have been looking for a replacement ever since. Nothing satisfies. Everything is either too big and heavy or too small and weak or just too light and violent to practice with. Crap.

Paralysis by analysis and the debate goes on. Perfection is the enemy of good enough. I need to clear my head, restart the search and try to accept some kind of compromise. The caliber I adore, I refuse to carry and I also refuse to give myself permission to carry anything smaller.

I guess the point of all this is that a favoite caliber is usless if I am unwilling to carry it. So I am going to have to trick myself into loving something I hate. Then again maybe it's just a tool and I can accept that....a tool for a specific job. Maybe good enough is ok.


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## Desertrat (Apr 26, 2007)

Many of us here use both 9mm and .45.....as long as they both do the job, count me in!!


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