# "Combat Accuracy"



## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

I came across this the other day. Interesting, well put-together. Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0V-CFM8QeA

As someone else said, "I see people combatting accuracy at the range every day....."


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

No results found for the link.


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> No results found for the link.


Works great for me....

Try cutting and pasting this (not linked)


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

SailDesign said:


> Works great for me....
> 
> Try cutting and pasting this (not linked)


I did...are you sure it's not some commie liberal link to a Jane Fonda protest?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Post the title of the video. I'll find it on youtube.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

As a combat veteran, I have to dispute the video... the guy talks about tight groups for success, and the need to bulls eye target discipline . the next thing he says is using your sights to acquire a good target will get you a kill shot. This guy has obviously never been in a combat situation. if you are looking at your sights and not the bad guy, you don't actually know where the bad guy is. Combat defense is muscle training , not eye to sights training. its two eyes open looking at the threat or threats in front of you.. the reason I carry a 45 ACP is not to have to hit the heart, but to have enough energy to drive the bones of the chest ( the ribs ) into the heart, or vitals arteries or the bones of the spine into the spinal cord. the spine and the ribs of the chest make formidable projectiles, that's why and exit wound is bigger than an entrance wound, because it brings a lot of collateral damage with it.

You can look at the sights when target shooting because the target wont be shooing back.. but in a combat situation , you do not have the luxury of time in acquiring a good sight picture and use proper breathing technique


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> I did...are you sure it's not some commie liberal link to a Jane Fonda protest?


From ET's take on it, it might as well be. 

It's called "Combat Accuracy as currently taught is an excuse for poor shooting and poor instruction."


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Based on what ET said, I don't think anyone who says things like "the need to bulls eye target discipline" really thinks realistically about combat/defensive shooting. Thankfully, I have never been in a military combat scenario, and I hope I never have to be in a defensive combat scenario on the streets, but there is no way anyone will have time to take site aim in most situations. If you can, you'd likely be better served by creating more distance btwn you and the threat, extend and get away. Better to avoid conflict if at all possible. It eliminates a number of bad possible outcomes.

Now, I don't believe marksmanship shooting practice should be tossed, but don't neglect the skills you need to be able to shoot quickly and accurately in a real-life scenario where you're not going to have time to draw down. I'll have to post a video of someone giving accurate shooting tips that is utterly ridiculous, but it sounds good to someone who has no clue.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

In this video, Cory explains how you get good shots down range with his personal shooting tips. Erika demonstrates. While she is awfully cute, it is clear these shooting tips are ridiculous.

Range Time with Cory & Erika - Shooting Tips - YouTube


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> Based on what ET said, I don't think anyone who says things like "the need to bulls eye target discipline" really thinks realistically about combat/defensive shooting. Thankfully, I have never been in a military combat scenario, and I hope I never have to be in a defensive combat scenario on the streets, but there is no way anyone will have time to take site aim in most situations. If you can, you'd likely be better served by creating more distance btwn you and the threat, extend and get away. Better to avoid conflict if at all possible. It eliminates a number of bad possible outcomes.


My take on it was that he felt that unless you can shoot accurately in a non-stressful situation, you have NO hope of shooting even passably accurately in a stressful one. That would be the muscle memory ET talks about. if your muscles won't shoot straight in a target situation, they won't shoot straight in combat.


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> In this video, Cory explains how you get good shots down range with his personal shooting tips. Erika demonstrates. While she is awfully cute, it is clear these shooting tips are ridiculous.
> 
> Range Time with Cory & Erika - Shooting Tips - YouTube


Most YouToob shooting vids are incredibly lame.... (But she is passing cute) I saw one where the guy said (roughly) "I'm going to shoot the Beretta 85, but it'll be a short video cos it's going to rain..."
Seriously? Go home, and come back to film when it ISN'T going to rain..... Sheesh!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I don't disagree with that basic premise, but there is a stark contrast btwn shooting for accuracy vs kinesthetic shooting. I see it at the range all the time. Older gentlemen who come in with their neat little range bags, pull out all their gear, set their targets up, and carefully take aim with each shot, taking about 5 to 15 seconds btwn shots. They are shooting to carefully place each shot, with which there is nothing wrong! But there is no muscle memory being created that will help you draw from if you're confronted on the street by a fast thug with a knife or gun. 

I do believe marksmanship is the foundation of shooting, and I do work on marksmanship while at the range. But, I spend most of my time working on defensive type shooting so that I can create some muscle memory in the event I have to pull, point and shoot.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

SailDesign said:


> Most YouToob shooting vids are incredibly lame.... (But she is passing cute) I saw one where the guy said (roughly) "I'm going to shoot the Beretta 85, but it'll be a short video cos it's going to rain..."
> Seriously? Go home, and come back to film when it ISN'T going to rain..... Sheesh!


Yeah, I had to laugh as I watched this video. They've actually done some pretty decent reviews on some pistols, but this one just made me laugh. I always laugh when on these videos the shooter stops shooting, draws their weapon back in some cool looking shooter stance of some type, looks sharply to the right and left, then breaks and starts talking to you. Clearly they know no one is around. It's just done for cool points.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

I don't watch Cory & Erika videos anymore after the discovery of Cory passing himself off as serving in Army (implying combat experience) ... when he reality he went AWOL before starting boot camp and being seperated from the armed forces. Classic case of stolen valor to add credibility to his instruction and for profit. He then made an apology video and lied some more about his military status. I got no time for Range Time with Cory & Erika. As an instructor who did serve (USMC) his country and still serves his community (LE), I find it offensive and unethical. 

I'll stick to watching Travis Haley (MARSOC) or Costa videos.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

TAPnRACK said:


> I don't watch Cory & Erika videos anymore after the discovery of Cory passing himself off as serving in Army (implying combat experience) ... when he reality he went AWOL before starting boot camp and being seperate from the armed forces. Classic case of stolen valor to add credibility to his instruction and for profit. He then made an apology video and lied some more about his military status. I got no time for Range Time with Cory & Erika. As an instructor who did serve (USMC) his country and still serves his community (LE), I find it offensive and unethical.
> 
> I'll stick to watching Travis Haley (MARSOC) or Costa videos.


I'm not surprised by that revelation. I have not watched any of their work in quite some time. I actually pulled up that video to show my wife how NOT to do things, and laugh b/c it is just absurd.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

IM going to add something else, just from my experience... I see these defensive kinesthetic shooting techniques, in almost everyone of them the teacher unloads the clip into the target.. I call it " show biz fire for effect" What I train to do is very important...Its called controlled fire for effect... eq.. you draw to the wrong muscle memory and unload your clip and you miss. what happens next is , you are dead.... here is what I do, I fire a burst of three and re access.
I adjust to the threat or multiple threats ( unloading your weapon at single target will only get you dead if there are multiple targets.. A controlled burst of three, will give the opportunity to control the field of view with both eyes open. if it's done right and the threat is not down, you have at least two sets of three in the mag to put a wounded Bad guy down at 4 or five feet. its hard to miss someone when they are that in your face. If the threat is 10/12 feet away, you are not going to have the time to reload another mag... that's Hollywood. BUT, there is nothing wrong with carrying an extra mag in the event you survive the initial assault. I always carry an extra mag. 
You have to be in control.. both eyes open.

I saw a report on an East LA gang shooting.. at least ten people involved. 275 shots fired, three people hit, no one killed and no serious critical wounds.. these guys shoot blindly because they don't know any better. the report suggests that at least some of these gang members shot their weapon with their eyes closed.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Basically he is saying there is a difference between "combat accuracy" and "self defense accuracy".... As there should be...........


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## Hauptmann (Aug 2, 2014)

*There is Room for Both*

Most incidents in which we might draw our weapon for self defense are over in about three seconds--not much time to think, let alone carefully aim. This is why I believe in defense drawing and shooting practice to develop the necessary muscle memory. But defense accuracy needs to grow from plain old marksmanship training.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Cait43 said:


> Basically he is saying there is a difference between "combat accuracy" and "self defense accuracy".... As there should be...........


I disagree wrt the difference btwn combat accuracy and self defense accuracy. I think they are one and the same. If we are using a pistol, whether it is in military combat or civilian defense combat, it is all defensive. While some use a pistol to offend, the pistol is a defensive weapon. However, the accuracy issue is the same. In both situations, MC vs CDC, you're shooting under enourmous stress and dealing with imminent danger. Essentially the same thing, except in most cases those in "military combat roles" are going to be a little more prepared to face that threat.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Hauptmann said:


> Most incidents in which we might draw our weapon for self defense are over in about three seconds--not much time to think, let alone carefully aim. This is why I believe in defense drawing and shooting practice to develop the necessary muscle memory. But defense accuracy needs to grow from plain old marksmanship training.


I would say AND defense accuracy needs to grow from plain old marksmanship training. You're exactly right! Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.


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## OldManMontgomery (Nov 2, 2013)

*Get some perspective*

The grand mistake is in the mindset of "this or that".

The requirements are "this AND that". Accuracy AND speed.

Long experience indicates training first for accuracy and then increasing speed is more efficient than training first for speed and then increasing accuracy.

Just as an aside, one finds a quicker response comes from paying attention and avoiding the trap in the first place.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Well said! I've found in most things that repetitious, deliberate, smooth movement will be your best friend. In time, speed will come, but best to have form down first.


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