# Home defense hypothetical



## camguy (Feb 8, 2008)

I posted this question on another forum, and boy did it open a can of worms!
Bad guy in your home, middle of the night, visibly armed, you shoot and kill him. All solid self-defense. You immediately grab the phone and call for an ambulance and police.
Here's my question: when asked what the nature of the emergency is by the 911 operator, do you say "I just shot an intruder in my home," or something more vague such as "there's been a shooting?"
I guess I'm wondering if it's better to CYA until the police arrive to assess the situation.
Thoughts?


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## 220combat (Oct 26, 2007)

I say tell them what happened, I want the police to know what happened and don't want them to think I was trying to hide anything. 

They are going to come in knowing there was a shooting either way.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

If your going to be on tape, which you would be, make it count in your favor if you can. "An armed man just broke into my home, I was forced to defend my family. Please send police and medical ASAP." At that point, they'll start asking you questions, answer with the facts. The part of the tape the jury or judge will hear first, is obviously the first part of the tape. I wouldn't use words like "Killed, dead, blasted, whacked" or any other synonym if you can help it. 

It's kind of the same when you get pulled over with your CC gun on your hip. Saying "Good afternoon officer, I have a gun in the car" is NOT the same as saying "Good afternoon officer, I have a permit to carry a handgun" Practice it like you practice shooting, because it'll rarely happen the way you thought it would unless you practice it.

Zhur


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Agreed. Can't see how the truth could hurt... CAN see how less-than-the-truth can hang you.

"I had an armed home invader in my house. I defended myself and shot him. He appears to be dead. Please send police now. He may not be alone. I am a white male, 6'4", wearing a white shirt, and I am still armed. You are on speaker, and I will stay on the phone until they arrive."

1) You're cleared on tape. All 911 calls are recorded.
2) The police will still be in a hurry.
3) They will be less likely to shoot you when they arrive, knowing your discription.

JW


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Keep the outgoing info as brief as possible - "just the facts." The more you talk, the bigger chance you have of saying something you didn't intend to say. Diarrhea of the mouth can hurt you.

You'll have a long, long night to explain everything to the cops.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> Keep the outgoing info as brief as possible - "just the facts." The more you talk, the bigger chance you have of saying something you didn't intend to say. Diarrhea of the mouth can hurt you.
> 
> You'll have a long, long night to explain everything to the cops.


+1

I wouldn't assume the BG was dead unless I saw brains outside the skull. Make sure his weaps are out of reach and threatscan before you call 911.

Nothing you say will defend you from an Al Sharpton onslaught.


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

zhurdan said:


> If your going to be on tape, which you would be, make it count in your favor if you can. "An armed man just broke into my home, I was forced to defend my family. Please send police and medical ASAP." At that point, they'll start asking you questions, answer with the facts. The part of the tape the jury or judge will hear first, is obviously the first part of the tape. I wouldn't use words like "Killed, dead, blasted, whacked" or any other synonym if you can help it.
> 
> It's kind of the same when you get pulled over with your CC gun on your hip. Saying "Good afternoon officer, I have a gun in the car" is NOT the same as saying "Good afternoon officer, I have a permit to carry a handgun" Practice it like you practice shooting, because it'll rarely happen the way you thought it would unless you practice it.
> 
> Zhur


I'd go with that.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Submoa
I wouldn't touch a thing! If the guy is still able to move I'd kick his weapon out of reach but I'd never touch it. Your finger prints on his gun could be used against you. His "loved ones" might say you planted the weapon. Colorado has a Castle law so it wouldn't be to big a deal but still you don't want to touch it if possible. I'd do like everybody else has stated and tell them just the facts as simply as possible.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

submoa said:


> Make sure his weaps are out of reach





gmaske said:


> Submoa
> I wouldn't touch a thing! If the guy is still able to move I'd kick his weapon out of reach but I'd never touch it. Your finger prints on his gun could be used against you.


Dee, dee-dee.

Well now, it would be pretty stupid to put down your gun and use your fingers to pick up his weaps so that you can get your nice tasty paw prints all over it.

Your first priority is making sure you and your loved ones are safe.

So to clarify, make sure the BG's weaps are out of the BG's reach. You don't know if he is dead or playing possum. So keep your gun trained on him.

With both your hands in a modified isosocles, weaver, ready low, etc. on your own gun I wouldn't, as suggested by *gmaske*, use your mysterious third hand to touch his weapon.

This leaves your feet to slide the BG's weap out of his reach. (kicking could just cause an ND).



gmaske said:


> His "loved ones" might say you planted the weapon.


Al Sharpton and company could make up anything. For all you know, you could be portrayed in the press as a rich (because you live in a home) bigot eager to gun down a brother (because you post on self defense threads in this forum), who only came to your house in the middle of the night looking for a bible.

Worry more about whether the BG can still get up and do damage before the cops arrive.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

submoa said:


> Nothing you say will defend you from an Al Sharpton onslaught.





submoa said:


> Al Sharpton and company could make up anything. For all you know, you could be portrayed in the press as a rich (because you live in a home) bigot eager to gun down a brother (because you post on self defense threads in this forum), who only came to your house in the middle of the night looking for a bible.


I realize I'm not a moderator here, but there's a huge assumption here. Probably shouldn't go there. Just a thought.

Zhur


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

zhurdan said:


> I realize I'm not a moderator here, but there's a huge assumption here. Probably shouldn't go there. Just a thought.
> 
> Zhur


I disagree with Al Sharpton's grandstanding in the press to attack victims of crime in support of obviously guilty defendants. Probably the best example of how what you say and do with 911 will have no bearing on how supporters of the defendant will portray you in the press.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

submoa said:


> Dee, dee-dee.
> 
> Well now, it would be pretty stupid to put down your gun and use your fingers to pick up his weaps so that you can get your nice tasty paw prints all over it.
> 
> ...


Slow down studly. I was just clarifying a point on "don't handle the gun Dude"! You didn't indicate how you were moving this BG's gun out of his reach. I'm able to hold a guy at gun point with my right hand and do stuff with my left. I'm actually very good at multitasking.....I just can't remember what I did most of the time 
I'm not interested in oneupsmenship or a flame session....Just clarifying a point for the less informed among us.
:smt172


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

This is why you need one of these:










You can safely move the BG's weapon out of his reach without finger printing it, AND pick his insides off the floor after the cops have removed the body. And you don't even need rubber gloves!!! :mrgreen:


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> This is why you need one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another one of your Ninja tools! You soooo out class us in every way!:smt171:numbchuck::smt082
rayer:We are so unworthy :anim_lol:

*BTW:*
I'm gonna finish up your bullets tomarrow. I'll use spent primers since you indicated you plan on using them in the future unless you tell me otherwise.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I might be about 16,000 steps ahead of you, but I'm posting little "hint hints" so you can slowly catch up. :anim_lol:

Spent primers would be great. I drove past our new Sportsman's Warehouse and they had "reloading" on the front of the building, so I think I could pick up a bullet puller and .45ACP reloader there instead of ordering it online. Just gotta get a new spool of quality hemp and make a trip to the range, then go home and get my dremel and I'll be set. I'm also considering using the DPX bullets for three reasons: A) There's no lead in them; B) They're 185gr so they're a bit lighter; and C) They look badass. What would be REALLY cool is if I had a fully expanded hollowpoint for the middle bullet, then used two nonexpanded bullets for the outer ones.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

For a ninja... you can't stay focused on one topic for very long!!!

someone spread out some Jacks on the floor, I wanna hear when he's coming from now on.

Zhur


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

zhurdan said:


> someone spread out some Jacks on the floor, I wanna hear when he's coming from now on.


Just pull a Home Alone and put a bunch of fragile Christmas ornaments and matchbox cars all over the place. You could also rig up some swinging paint cans and a doorway mounted blowtorch.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

The bucket of water on top of the slightly open door works every time it's tried. My sister got me with that one three times. She knew just how long to wait.


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

JeffWard said:


> Agreed. Can't see how the truth could hurt... CAN see how less-than-the-truth can hang you.
> 
> Au contraire. _Anything_ you say can and will be used against you.
> Here is a lecture by a law prof and a cop. Long, but worth the time spent:
> ...


Re Mike's assertion that you will have time to answer questions down at the station: Do. Not. Answer. Questions. Not when the police arrive, not down at the station. As much as possible, as much as you can force yourself to do so, maintain total silence. The only questions you answer are those that they submit in writing to your lawyer, and your lawyer will answer those in writing.

If Harold Fish had shut up, and had not tried to show he was "cooperative" by talking to the cops, he would not be in jail today. Those people are "just trying to do their jobs," but their job is to put you in jail. You have no duty to cooperate with their efforts to put you in jail. There is not one thing you can possibly say that will help you.

STFU: Speak The Fewest Utterances


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

That video is a MUST WATCH


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Holy Poo Batman!
That was an education!


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## khellandros66 (Oct 1, 2007)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> This is why you need one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please tell me you really don't have this next to your safe... :numbchuck:

I would call 911 "My name and address. Someone broke in, he had a weapon, I gave him a warning but was forced to defend my(self) family, they are down but I am unsure of their condition, send police" don't ask for EMT unless you, or a loved one is injured. Otherwise let the police arrive and make the call for EMT that way the BG can be cuffed and moved safely (if only injured). This also gives the BG a bit more time to die... but thats me.

Call me heartless but I tell you, better for me live and let the bastard die.

Cheers

Bobby

PS. Daddy always said put enough in them that they can't be a witness against you! ;-)


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I will defer to *milquetoast* on this, for various reasons. I will note that Mas Ayoob recommends having your attorney present during questioning, but hasn't mentioned (at least to the best of my knowledge) only answering questions in writing. Not that Mas Ayoob is the all-knowing, unblinking eye.

As a practical matter, you will have to make some utterances, but of course they should be minimized.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

khellandros66 said:


> Please tell me you really don't have this next to your safe... :numbchuck:


I have five of them in different colors and sizes. I also have 19 bear traps to set in my living room so if a burglar goes prodding through the night, he'll get caught in an iron set of teeth. It might happen to my roommate too, but who cares. The only reason he'd be going downstairs is to turn off the A/C so I wake up at 4am in a pool of sweat after the temp's risen to 79 degrees.

I actually don't own any of those picker uppers, or bear traps. But I do own a dog, a 12-gauge with tac-lite, and a .45 with night sights. So I should be good to go unless the rival pink ninjas show up. Or the Power Rangers.


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## LiberalCCW (May 26, 2008)

I haven't read through all the responses just yet so I hope I'm not repeating a whole lot.

First thought: Don't always believe what the dispatcher first tells you. I've had loads of situations where they weren't aware of the actual law. Actually had one refuse to send an officer, then tell me they were going to arrest me for assualt because I sliced an intruder across the chest.

Second thought: Depends on what state you're in. It's rediculus but some states actually require you to first seek safety before you attack an intruder... or if the intruder is trying to escape you can't use force. So in this case, you'd better hope the guy dies inside of your house without a bloody hand print on the door knob.

*My suggestion to everyone:* Call your Law Library and ask for all laws concerning guns, self-defense, and trespassing; they will email the actual statutes and case-laws to you... Know These!

*Another useful suggestion:* I use this technique ALL the time... Look up your state's police codes. Example: "There's a *390*(intoxicated) situation at such and such corner." Try using these codes rather than explaining the situation. I've found dispatchers take me very seriously and hurry the hell up. This way you're less likely to say something possibly incriminating.

Ha.. okay one more suggestion: Fire multiple shots. First at the intruder... and at least one at the ceiling, floor, or wall. Then say you fired that last one FIRST... as a warning shot. It helps having neighbors testify that they heard three shots when the cops only find two in the intruder.... then point them to the hole in the ceiling above where you were standing at the time.:mrgreen:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

LiberalCCW said:


> okay one more suggestion: Fire multiple shots. First at the intruder... and at least one at the ceiling, floor, or wall. Then say you fired that last one FIRST... as a warning shot. It helps having neighbors testify that they heard three shots when the cops only find two in the intruder.... then point them to the hole in the ceiling above where you were standing at the time.:mrgreen:


So let me get this straight. You're suggesting to one, lie to the police and file a false report and two, endanger your family and neighbors by purposely missing?

Apparently it's time for me to repeat it once more for everybody as we seem not not be getting it:

*WE DO NOT DISCUSS ILLEGAL ACTIVITY HERE ON THE FORUM!

*Thread closed.


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