# Best 45 Non-1911 Frame



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

Disregarding The 1911 Frame
Which Is The Best 45acp
Glock 21sf
Hk45
Ruger P345
Sig Sauer 250
S&w M&p45
Springfield Xd45


----------



## James NM (Jan 4, 2007)

You don't have my top 3 in your poll:

1). S&W 945
2). Sig 220
3). SW99


----------



## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I haven't tried any of your choices other than the P345 which I own. While it may not be a perfect pistol its cost to durability ratio is really high in my book. After all it's a RUGER:smt1099


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Could almost have been called the "Best Poly-.45" poll.. Not that I know from ownership experience, but I think there are some exceptionally notable metal-frame .45 ACP's out there.. 

P90 (for reasons of above.. Ruger built like a tank, yet affordable). 
CZ 97 B ?? (This one especially intrigues me a lot)
P220 was already mentioned

In the poly's.. I'd also throw in the FNP-45 just for giggles.. built for SOCOM pistol trials.. Appears to be a tough tough pistol. And just for more giggles, 24/7 taurus.


----------



## 220combat (Oct 26, 2007)

"Whats my name???"


----------



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

ok
so i missed a few
my bad


----------



## oldscot3 (Jan 4, 2008)

The Cz 97 is a 45 auto version of the Cz 75, famous for its ergonomics. The fullsize Witness pistols, also available in 45, are an excellent clone of the Cz 75. IMHO you have to drop the frame size down to 40 S&W/9mm scale to get anything, plastic or metal, which feels as good as a Cz.


----------



## sidaemon (Feb 17, 2008)

I have a Witness in 45, which is basically the CZ. The one I have is polymer frame. For me the pistol is ergonomically the best I have ever fired with the exception of my 357 colt python from the 60's.

It drives bullets on a rail but it has some features that are less than desireable:

One is the Polymer frame, if I had it to do over again I would definately go for the steel frame. My polymer drives up hard when you fire so the double tap is really difficult. 

Safeties are not designed well for the stubby fingered among us. Sadly that is me, you have to reach a bit for it.

There are some excellent selling features though. It comes apart for cleaning in 30 seconds or less. Also same frame size for 45, 9mm, 380 auto, 10mm, I have even seen a 357 sig modification from a 10mm. All this from just fitting a new slide assembly to the same frame pistol you have. That means for about $230 you can own a different handgun in all these calibers.

Also because the frame is exactly the same mags are interchangable with only fitting a new magazine follower onto the magazine frame, a $5 part instead of a $30-$40 mag.

Also there is the fact that the full size frame carries 10+1, a definate firepower advantage.

I'm looking into an XD right now just because with all the rounds that I'm firing the 45 is a bit cost heavy.

Just my two cents.


----------



## oldscot3 (Jan 4, 2008)

I have the steel frame Witness in 10mm. The only pistol in the world that feels, perhaps just slightly, better to me is a Browning Hi Power. But.... they don't make those in 45 acp. I love my Witness and they're bargain priced. By the way 13 round mags are available from EAA for about $ 25.00 (a batch of three is about $75.00)


----------



## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

S&W M&P .45. Very simple, very comfortable, holds 10 rounds (better than the Ruger and Sig, but I think the Glock and XD both have more), slim profile, lower bore axis than any XD (less muzzle flip), etc etc etc. Shorter, lighter pull than Glocks or XDs. There is a chamber indicator, but it's visual-only; a hole cut at the gap between chamber and breechblock. Ruger's got a tactile indicator as does XD. Follow Rule 1 and it's a complete non-issue. Price-wise it's comparable with Glock and XD, $100 more then the ruger but about $200 less than the Sig or H&K.

Downsides: Trigger could be better thought-out. There's some takeup, although nothing like what I have on my Ruger P95 in single-action. Once the slack's taken up the pull is all or nothing; if it takes X force to pull the trigger, it won't move at X-.01, but goes immediately at X+.01. It's thus very crisp, but if you, like me, are used to feeling the sear give way then this pull seems very sudden. The trigger design is OK (I like the strong curve), but what really needs to be thought out is the trigger latch; a foreign object or shirttail that gets in the trigger guard is going to have no problem releasing that latch design, where a bar latch like the Glock or XD protruding from the trigger face is harder to release accidentally. Therefore adherence to Rule 3 is an absolute, and extends to ensuring nothing else gets in the trigger guard.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I think I am going to get a Ruger 345 soon. It would be my 1st Ruger, but I';ve kind of eyed that model since they first came out. I wish I could find someone local to let me try one first, however.

But, I have rented the XD45, and I was VERY impressed. I voted for that. I've just never been a big XD fan - but, I think that will be the gun I get after the Ruger.


----------



## Spartan (Jan 1, 2007)

I really want one of the new HK45c's. I held a full size and she's a big girl. Only 10 rounds. But, the HK45c looks perfect. Too bad it costs ~ a grand.

I voted XD. You can't go wrong with 13+1 of 45.


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> I think I am going to get a Ruger 345 soon. It would be my 1st Ruger, but I';ve kind of eyed that model since they first came out. I wish I could find someone local to let me try one first, however.
> 
> But, I have rented the XD45, and I was VERY impressed. I voted for that. I've just never been a big XD fan - but, I think that will be the gun I get after the Ruger.












The XD 45 4" compact (XD9645HCSP06) with the 10 mag and 13 extended grip mag looks like a super versitile gun... Higher cap than a 1911 in compact "carry-mode" and 3 more rounds in "full-grip" mode.

Having shot an XD (an old old HS 2000 9mm range rental with a huge amount of rounds through it), I can say the single action trigger is nice... And it is an accurate and smooth gun.

Though I'm pushing towards that 92FS Inox a friend has, I still think I'd love an XD but don't know if Springfield has any kind of warranty such as Taurus' lifetime warranty.. Thats somewhat nice peace of mind.

But there's too much about the XD's to like.

The buddy of mine with the Ruger P89 just picked up a .357 Sig tactical length XD.. Man I can't wait to bust a few rounds with it when he comes to town.


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> I think I am going to get a Ruger 345 soon.


Actually, I hope you do go for a P345 and give us a good write-up.. Especially with those other poly guns to compare it to. :mrgreen:


----------



## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

I was just about to get a SIG 220 with a DAK trigger, when they announced the 250. I'll hold off until I see one for sale in the store. If I like the looks of the 250, I'll get it. If not, I'll get the 220/DAK.


----------



## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

You don't have it listed but in my opinion it would be the SIG 220, out of the box it shoots very well and is extremely reliable, if I went to a polymer pistol I like my XD-45 and have no problems with it at all and am very satisfied, I also used to own the Glock 21, which was a very good gun but I did not like the grip even though I have large hands, I found it hard to keep my index finger of the frame while pulling the trigger and it would cause me to pull some shots, I'm sure the new SF frame would be better as that was the only detracter for me.


----------



## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

To be honest I like how the HK45 feels best. I haven't had a chance to shoot it though so I can't judge. I have shot various Sigs and they are top notch. I'd buy one if I was looking.


----------



## Bastet (Dec 31, 2006)

Beretta Cougar 8045


----------



## florida1098 (Feb 1, 2008)

If it does'nt say " GLOCK " it won't be in my possesion.


----------



## CMSpecs (Feb 25, 2008)

What about the Smiths 4506, 645??? Cant leave them out


----------



## hawcer (Feb 22, 2008)

I have to go with some of these other guys....for a .45,the Cz designed frame in a Witness or IMI/IWI Baby Desert Eagle is pretty darn comfortable and is as solid as a tank.


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

hawcer said:


> I have to go with some of these other guys....for a .45,the Cz designed frame in a Witness or IMI/IWI Baby Desert Eagle is pretty darn comfertable and is as solid as a tank.


How about a sure enough CZ in the 97B??


----------



## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

babs said:


> How about a sure enough CZ in the 97B??


That would be an excellent choice.


----------



## hawcer (Feb 22, 2008)

babs said:


> How about a sure enough CZ in the 97B??


I guess I took that one for granted....since it is the actual CZ.


----------



## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

milquetoast said:


> That would be an excellent choice.


+1 They are great feeling guns, although I've never shot one.

-Jeff-


----------



## Don357 (Dec 4, 2007)

florida1098 said:


> If it does'nt say " GLOCK " it won't be in my possesion.


People like this bother me. While Glocks ARE good guns, IMHO they are far from being the best. There are many gun that are just as good and better than Glocks and 1911's. Don't get me wrong, The 1911 is as good as it gets, tried and true, war proven for almost 100 years. Just not for me.
Of the guns listed I would chooes the Ruger, but I'm waiting for the reviews of the Sig 250. I personally have a Witness P Compact .45. Grip was a little thin so I made 1/4" thick mahogany panels to attach and now it fits quite well and looks good too! No malfunctions and the CZ design is infallable.:smt023


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Don't knock *florida1098* for preferring Glock. He never said it was best for everyone, just that it is what he prefers and what he will buy.

The only service pistols I'll carry are also Glocks, because in my opinion they are the best design on the current market. I acknowledge that there are many other good guns on the market, but I will _only_ buy Glocks (in service-type pistols).

And CZs are _hardly_ infallible. My experience is that they are very reliable pistols, but not quite as reliable as Glock.


----------



## Living in the war zone (Mar 4, 2008)

I picked ruger simply because everything they make seems to be tougher than woodpeckers lips.


----------



## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I haven't actually shot any of those listed and couldn't make an educated vote. Watching this thread though I think will be interesting:watching:


----------



## Joeshwa24 (Nov 14, 2007)

I have an XD-40 but I have resently purchased 2 1911's a friend of mine got the XD-45 compact and I am giving some thought to selling the 40 to pick up a compact 45... its a great gun


----------



## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

florida1098 said:


> If it does'nt say " GLOCK " it won't be in my possesion.


SINCE YOU HAVE SUCH A LOW OPINION OF HK, SPRINGFIELD, COLT, SMITH AND WESSON, SIG, AUTO ORDINANCE ,RUGER, NORINCO, KIMBER, FN , BROWNING. GOOD THING YOU DONT NEED A RIFLE :mrgreen:

I HAVE A HK USP. I LOVE SHOOTING THIS THING. ITS A BIT LARGE AND A DRESS AROUND GUN BUT GOD DOES IT SHOOT.

I WOULD LIKE TO SHOOT A G21 WITH A GRIP REDUCTION FROM ROBAR OR AZ RESPONSE. THE 21SF IS STILL TO BIG FOR MY STUBBY FINGERS.


----------



## Joeshwa24 (Nov 14, 2007)

Old Padawan said:


> SINCE YOU HAVE SUCH A LOW OPINION OF HK, SPRINGFIELD, COLT, SMITH AND WESSON, SIG, AUTO ORDINANCE ,RUGER, NORINCO, KIMBER, FN , BROWNING. GOOD THING YOU DONT NEED A RIFLE :mrgreen:
> 
> I HAVE A HK USP. I LOVE SHOOTING THIS THING. ITS A BIT LARGE AND A DRESS AROUND GUN BUT GOD DOES IT SHOOT.
> 
> I WOULD LIKE TO SHOOT A G21 WITH A GRIP REDUCTION FROM ROBAR OR AZ RESPONSE. THE 21SF IS STILL TO BIG FOR MY STUBBY FINGERS.


My Aunt just got a Compact HK USP and It is very bulky but it really does shoot very well. I was also able to shoot a Sig p226 in 45 and thats also very nice fire arm.


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Joeshwa24 said:


> My Aunt just got a Compact HK USP and It is very bulky but it really does shoot very well. I was also able to shoot a Sig p226 in 45 and thats also very nice fire arm.


... I thought the 220 was the only .45 ACP Sig? Typo?


----------



## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

Joeshwa24 said:


> My Aunt just got a Compact HK USP and It is very bulky but it really does shoot very well. I was also able to shoot a Sig p226 in 45 and thats also very nice fire arm.


the USP had a large grip that's for sure. Try the HK45 and HK45c. They have user replaceable back strap that you can try out and make the gun fit your hand comfortably. Much improved over the USP, combine that with the reliability that a USP enjoys as well as HK's fit and finish and you have a great gun.

BTW: The Sig P226 comes in 9mm, .40SW, and .357SIG


----------



## texagun (May 5, 2007)

1. Sig P220
2. Glock 30


----------



## Black Metal (Jan 16, 2008)

Sig has 3 handguns avaliable in .45acp that are not 1911's. The p220 series, p245, and p250. I would have to say I would take a CZ97b over anything on the list but since it wasn't included I'll have to go with the HK (I am just not a fan of striker fire actions).


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Showing my ignorance here about actions.. :mrgreen:

Those Sigs have hammers, does that not make them a non-striker fired pistol?? I thought striker-fired guns were hammer-less such as Glock, XD, SR9, M&P etc. ??


----------



## ander254 (Mar 13, 2008)

I shot a Glock 36 the other day and was highly impressed. Only downside was small capacity at 6+1.


----------

