# New here. Looking for first handgun $350 budget...



## JHoov82 (Mar 20, 2017)

Hello everyone. Looking to purchase my first handgun. The use will be home defense and something to carry with me in my vehicle until I get my CHL which at that time I will buy another gun for EDC use. IN the meantime I'm looking for a full size 9mm. I have narrowed it down to 2 options but am open to suggestions as well.

EAA all steel Witness full size 9mm

or

Canik TP9SF.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

Due to an affinity for CZ.... and metal... EAA.

Either is a nice choice, but don't be afraid to check the used rack for a CZ75.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

+1 for the EAA Witness. I had 1 in 45 poly, compact that I wish I hadn't gotten rid of. I would not hesitate to purchase another EAA Witness.

Also, as CW has pointed out; don't be afraid of the used gun rack at your LGS. You can pick up some nice, quality guns from the major manufacturers at reasonable prices. Just be sure that if you are going the used route that you take someone with you who understands what to look for in a used gun. Some of the "bargains" out there may not actually be a good buy.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Your choices are the first two pistols that came to mind. I have owned and shot neither, but heard good things about both. Until recently, I would also have recommended the Stoeger Cougar 8000F which is an all-metal, hammer-fired, DA/SA pistol which Academy Sports had been selling for $299 NIB for the last couple of years. But Stoeger has discontinued production of the Cougar, alas, and even if you found one, getting additional magazines could be an issue.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I know better than to recommend any specific gun.
But I can recommend a couple of choices to make.

1. Buy a used gun that appears to have been well cared for. You'll get lots more "bang" for fewer bucks.

2. Buy either a single-action (SA) semi-auto (for instance a 1911) or a double-action-only (DAO) semi-auto (for instance, Glock). Do not buy a pistol which forces you to switch from a double-action (DA) first shot to SA subsequent shots. A beginner needs a consistent trigger action because trigger control is the hardest pistol-shooting thing to learn.

If it's possible, try before you buy.
Some gun shops are also shooting ranges, and they rent pistols to people who want to try them.
Try as many different guns as you can afford to. Take careful notes. Go home and review the notes you made. Then make your choice.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Here is a thread on another forum which might be of interest to you:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=568584


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## JHoov82 (Mar 20, 2017)

I think I'm gonna buy the EAA all steel full size Witness. It's $330 shipped from buds. Plus I will get to learn on a DA/SA gun so if I go striker fire down the road it will be an easy transition or I'll have the experience if I want say a Beretta or CZ.


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## Outlaw (Feb 5, 2017)

Sarsilmaz k2p


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

Good luck with your choice, and congratulations for taking the first steps in protecting yourself and your household.

BTW - Welcome to the forum.


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

Steve, DA/SA pistols can have the same exact trigger action for every shot. Cocked and Locked. I'm assuming thats how you carry your 1911's.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

toddcshoe said:


> Steve, DA/SA pistols can have the same exact trigger action for every shot. Cocked and Locked. I'm assuming thats how you carry your 1911's.


Um, no. With all due apologies, I think that you're wrong.
The "DA/SA" trigger action is also called "Traditional Double-Action" (TDA). It is found in, for instance, the Walther P.38 and PP/PPK/PPS, the Beretta pistol still standard issue to US military service personnel (M9?), and the CZ-75 and its clones.
The M1911 and its clones are all Single-Action (SA) pistols.

A "DA/SA" (or TDA) trigger acts as a double-action system, both cocking and releasing the gun's hammer (or striker) upon its first trigger press; and then it switches to Single-Action, serving only to release the hammer (or striker) upon each subsequent trigger press.
The SA trigger serves _only_ to release the gun's hammer (or striker) with each and every trigger press.

There is also the Double-Action-Only (DAO) trigger system, in which every trigger press both cocks and releases the hammer (or striker).

I believe that you are thinking of pistols like the CZ-75 and its clones, in which the user has the choice of either a DA first shot or a SA first shot, depending upon the application of its safety lever.
Pressing the safety upward, on a cocked gun, gives the user a SA first shot. But pressing the safety all the way downward, on a cocked gun, safely drops the hammer and sets up for a DA first shot.
I believe that this type of trigger action is still classified as TDA, but with a SA option.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

With the 1911 the grip safety plays a major role... That's why the 1911 is one of the safest in a cocked position


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

I stand corrected and no apologizes are needed. I seemed to have forgotten about the decocker type safety's on most DA/SA hammer fired guns. I don't have a CZ75 but I do own a P01 and a IWI Jericho 941F. The P01 has the decocker thing and the 941 has just a normal safety without the decocking option. I have ordered a CZ75 Compact and I don't believe it has a decocker option. Guess I will find out soon. LOL I will say this, trigger actions on DA only guns have come a long way in the last few years. Still not a huge fan of plastic guns but they are flying off the shelves. I reckon you have forgotten about more guns than I ever owned so I take everything I hear from you guys and gals on here, learn and try to keep that info in my little brain. 

Thanks Steve.

Todd


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

"We endeavour to please, sir." -Jeeves (P.G. Woodhouse)

Although it really is only a personal prejudice, I am uncomfortable with the sort of action presented by the CZ-75.
I always feel the fear that, in SA mode, if I press down on the safety too hard, I'll de-cock the gun instead of merely putting the lever on "fire."

I am also not terribly pleased with TDA actions: Why should it be necessary to confuse one's "muscle memory" with having to handle two different trigger actions during an emergency?
But that's probably merely a personal prejudice too.

By the way: We have Crimson Tides up here, too, but they only mean that one shouldn't eat the shellfish.


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

I can certainly see a problem occurring when a simple safety lever is trying to perform two different actions. I really like having a gun that simply works and I know how it's going to preform every shot. I don't want to deal with two totally different trigger pulls for two shots. It drives my wife nuts and a few friends I have to see me carrying a cocked and locked DA/SA pistol. Without a decocker option mind you, just the safety on. But that was the way I was brought up and that is what is comfortable for me. I know exactly how that pistol will perform if I ever have to unholster it, hopefully that will be never. I really need to start carrying my 1911's more often. Very safe guns to be carried in that mode. 

By the way, I know you are a 1911 guy. Any thoughts or experience with the Rock Island 5 inch double stack in 9mm? Looks nice and the price isn't too bad. 

Well if I ever get up in that part of the country I'll make sure to watch out for the Crimson Tide.


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## Capt Rick Hiott (Aug 22, 2010)

215.00 dollars,,,,wow!

Smith & Wesson M&P SHIELD 9mm ? 180021

They have the .45 for sale too.


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## racer (Feb 27, 2016)

why are so many people bushing [email protected] striker fire when slowly pulling trigger wont pang ewery time .i am not for chap guns but i got sccy cpx2 to try out box better with hammer and 180$ 10 round magacine goes bang people wake up and try. i own so many expencive fite arms i love mostly berettas but i had good experience with this brand, with reasonable prize just do it .


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## racer (Feb 27, 2016)

i made conversion from my beretta compact with all what carry compact offers .stainless slide like that better down florida eds .also 18 magazine steel triger combetission all u can get and 12 bound hammer spring it is my choise for my life .but that just me and iwb holster factory florida make it perfect carry holster .


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

toddcshoe said:


> ...It drives my wife nuts and a few friends I have to see me carrying a cocked and locked DA/SA pistol...


The solution is education.
I educated my wife, taking her from gun hater/banner to licensed defensive-concealed-carry pistol shooter. All it takes is a little time and a lot of attention.
And about friends: Concealed is concealed. If they don't see it, they can't get upset about it.



toddcshoe said:


> ...Any thoughts or experience with the Rock Island 5 inch double stack in 9mm? Looks nice and the price isn't too bad...


I have no experience with this gun.
Remember that I'm an old guy who hasn't bought a pistol since I helped my wife find something comfortable and comforting to carry. (That was about 15 years ago.) And then I taught her to shoot, too.

One thought: If you think that you might like it, find a store that'll let you try it.

Oh, yeah... And don't start carrying a pistol until you are truly competent at using it. And competency requires practice. Lots of practice.


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

Totally agree, I would never carry a weapon that I am not 100 percent comfortable using and knowing it's actions and control. It was just one of those pistols that jumped out at me when I was looking around at different guns. I will look into a shop somewhere close to me that can rent me the gun for an hour or so. I live in kind of a rural area so those types of shops are hard to come by unless I'm willing to drive a bit. Which I don't mind doing as long as it helps me purchase a weapon that I will be happy with. 

Mr. Steve I respect your advise and opinions. I most certainly will not carry, or let my loved ones carry a pistol they aren't totally competent with. My wife included. LOL She is a gun lover and very safe around firearms but not to great at practicing and getting used to the gun she wants to carry. She just wants to stick it in her purse and hope for the best. That doesn't work for me so I make sure she doesn't leave the house with them. I try to get her out of the house down to our range to practice and run drills but she never seems to want to. I don't push her but I really wish she would. I probably throw a few thousand rounds down range a month and I really wish I could get her to do the same. 

Well maybe one day I can get her off her butt for some good old shooting. Maybe I need to rethink the way I approach her about the subject.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Usually the gun women want to carry has more recoil then expected. Women want small guns until they fire them..


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

Oh yes Mr.Pic, I am aware of that struggle. The wife first wanted something small and easy to carry, until she actually shot it. Then realized that it kicked like a pissed off mule. Then she got on the pretty gun bandwagon with all the pink and purple camo Cerakote finishes and what not. They were still small guns that brought her back to the original problem of shootability. I guess in her mind she thought a pretty gun would be easier to shoot. I just smile and buy her what she wants and let her figure it out on her own. I think I finally got on her to a decent sized gun that shoots well and is still very concealable. I just need her to shoot it and get to learn it. I am hoping all her prior experiences with all those small guns hasn't put doubt in her mind about pistols. She is a trooper and will shoot rifles and shotguns all day but I can't get her to the handgun range for some reason. I'll keep trying and wear her down eventually. LOL


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I bet that she won't go to the handgun range for two reasons:
1. Because her chosen pistol is very uncomfortable to shoot, and
2. Since that is true, she doesn't shoot very well, which discourages her.

I taught my wife, who stands just under five feet tall, and who weighs 100 pounds only when fully dressed and soaking wet, to shoot pistol using my full-size, full-weight 1911, in .45 ACP. And, no, the recoil never bothered her. Not one bit.
She did two solid weeks of dry-fire preparation, learning to grip, to follow through, to maintain a sight picture, and trigger control, before she ever fired a shot. By the time we did get her to fire her first shot, it was no big deal, and it was a center hit. And so were the rest of them.
Once she was a good shot, and had some useful experience, I had her try every carry pistol in our safe. She settled on a tiny .380 Kel-Tec, but by then she knew how to control it.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Either go with a full size , or stay small with a 22. Make it enjoyable to shoot, builds confidence and trust.. Proper Ear plugs and a pair of shooting gloves helps with recoil sensitivity. A lot of the sensitivity is the noise, it hurts.


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

Steve and Pic, very good info. All valid points. When I do get her out to shoot she is a very good shot and seems to enjoy it. Unless she's just pretending to be to satisfy me because I look forward to it. Steve she has tons of dry fire and getting comfortable with the pistol she is shooting, and I do have her a good set of muffs and some decent leather gloves. She did have a mild stroke in March and I am thinking that may have affected her mental ability to get into shooting again. Hence I keep all the guns locked up, except the one I wear on me. I am hoping with time we can get her back into it. I won't push the issue, I'll just let her decide when she is ready. 

Thanks guys.

Todd


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

Ruger SR9 can be had for around $350, The SR9E for Under $350. Ruger American 9mm Pistol also for Around $350. Smith & Wesson SD9VE for WAY UNDER $350


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I hope that the effects of her stroke aren't permanent, and that she recovers fully and quickly.
(And that has nothing to do with shooting.)


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Re the dual purpose thumb safety/decocker: I own an EAA Witness and have owned two others; none of them had the (poorly thought out) decocker 'feature'). The all-steel 45 is my bedside gun, always ready in cocked-and-locked condition. I have fired the gun at the range using the DA first shot, and wasn't distracted by it. Possibly because I shoot DA revolvers too.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

My final suggestion to the OP is to buy the best Taurus that you can afford. Whether or not it turns out to be reliable, it will be a valuable learning experience.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

hillman said:


> My final suggestion to the OP is to buy the best Taurus that you can afford. Whether or not it turns out to be reliable, it will be a valuable learning experience.


:anim_lol: :anim_lol: :anim_lol:


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