# Working up a load?



## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

I am new to reloading. I am also not a great shot. I started reloading so that I could afford to go to the range more often. At 25 yards I can barely keep all of my shots in the black on a 2'x2' target. At 7 Yards my best 10 shot group(2 hand grip no rest, stock sights Beretta 92FS) is just over 3.5 inches. This brings me to my question.

Given my level of (in)accuracy, would I be better off trying to work up a load myself in the hopes of finding an "accurate" load, or would I be better off using a "proven" load that someone else says is accurate for them with the assumption they are better shots than me and that pretty much any load will be more accurate than what I am capable of at the moment? Also if I do work up my own loads what would be the best distance for me to test the accuracy of my loads at?


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Atroxus said:


> I am new to reloading. I am also not a great shot. I started reloading so that I could afford to go to the range more often. At 25 yards I can barely keep all of my shots in the black on a 2'x2' target. At 7 Yards my best 10 shot group(2 hand grip no rest, stock sights Beretta 92FS) is just over 3.5 inches. This brings me to my question.
> 
> Given my level of (in)accuracy, would I be better off trying to work up a load myself in the hopes of finding an "accurate" load, or would I be better off using a "proven" load that someone else says is accurate for them with the assumption they are better shots than me and that pretty much any load will be more accurate than what I am capable of at the moment? Also if I do work up my own loads what would be the best distance for me to test the accuracy of my loads at?


Right now what you need is a safe and functional load. You can learn to shoot and load with basic ammo.

If you don't yet have one you need a loading manual such as the Lee manual which may have come with your kit. If you don't have one get one.

Have you purchased any components yet and if so what bullet and powder did you get?

Whatever powder you use, start in the low to middle of the powder charge range specified in the appropriate chart. Load charts are available on line for each brand of powder plus in the Lee manual.

Mid range loads will provide reasonable accuracy for now. Low end may not cycle the gun reliably so load 10 or 20 at low to mid levels and test fire for effect.

I would consider Mid range loads as "Proven Loads". Don't use anybody elses loads if they are not within limits specified by the powder manufacturer.

If you have not purchased yet Accurate #2 would be a good powder to start with. The Lee powder dispenser handles it well and it is working good for me.

115 Grain JHP bullets are best but plated or lead will work also. Cleaning the gun is a bit more work if using bare lead but they work and are low cost.

You are not ready ro buy in bulk so a local source may dictate what is available to you.

Have fun.

tumbleweed


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## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

I have all the components and I got load data from the Hodgdon reloading data center. Winchester brass, W231 powder, Winchester small pistol primers, and 115gr missouri bullets LRN. My plan was to follow the directions from ABCs of reloading to work up a load. Starting with the lightest load and working up from there while watchign for signs of overpressure. I started thinking though "With my current level of accuracy, how would I know if a given load is inaccurate, or if it's just me."

From what you have said so far I gather I would be better off starting low and only working up until the rounds cycle in my gun reliably and show no signs of low or high pressure. Then start refining the load for accuracy once *my* accuracy is better?


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Atroxus said:


> I have all the components and I got load data from the Hodgdon reloading data center. Winchester brass, W231 powder, Winchester small pistol primers, and 115gr missouri bullets LRN. My plan was to follow the directions from ABCs of reloading to work up a load. Starting with the lightest load and working up from there while watchign for signs of overpressure. I started thinking though "With my current level of accuracy, how would I know if a given load is inaccurate, or if it's just me."
> 
> From what you have said so far I gather I would be better off starting low and only working up until the rounds cycle in my gun reliably and show no signs of low or high pressure. Then start refining the load for accuracy once *my* accuracy is better?


An accurate load is nothing without an accurate shooter behind it. Focus on shooting well first, make a load that cycles the gun and that is within safety parameters and do the reloading as a hobby. Most times, people that get into reloading to save money end up having a love/hate relationship with their reloading equipment, but if you do it for fun, or because it's relaxing (extremely for me), you'll be better off for it later on. It definately is cheaper, but basically, you're just throwing money down range until your shooting skills improve. Good luck!

As for if it's you or the round... bench rest it, it's the only sure way to tell... oh, and use lots of tape! (kidding on that last part)


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## OnionBreath45 (Nov 12, 2009)

I use to shoot poorly. While I am not an ace shooter, I do shoot alot better now. I studied hand grip and finger control. My biggest success came from buying dummy rounds and placing them in the mags with actual bullets.The trick was I did not know when the gun was going to fire off a round. When I squeezed the trigger on the dummy round, I could see I was palming the pistol forward causing low left hits on target. There is too much info to place here that will help you shoot better. NRA had a great chart displaying bullet placement of paper target and what it meant. Obviously dead center all is good. Low left = palming gun, high left of center means trigger control...... it goes on. Keep your powder dry and God bless America. Randy


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I believe this is the chart that OnionBreath54 was talking about.
http://www.is-lan.com/challenge/images/Pistol-Correction.pdf

A lot of good advice has already been given. I would find a load that is in the midrange of the loading data and just stick with it for awhile. Work on your grip and gun control. Work with your body to correct any mistakes you might be making. Dry firing your gun at home aiming at some object will help a lot too. I tend to start flinching if I lay off shooting for a period and have to start the battle all over again. What is your goal? Bulleye or self defense? 
Reloading will help you to shoot more if you can get enough supplies to feed your habbit. I cast my own bullets from wheel weights that I get free locally. As long as you stay under 1000fps and lube the bullets they work great with no leading. Before I started casting I was using Rainier copper plated bullets. They work great and are reasonably priced.
Here are a couple of places I shop at on-line:
http://www.midwayusa.com/default.aspx 
http://www.natchezss.com/index.cfm
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/


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## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

I was re-reading ABCs again about working up a load and the only information it had about what increments to increase powder was in the section on loading rifle rounds. It said to increase powder charge by .5grs at a time watching for signs of over pressure. Does this apply to handgun cartridges as well? I would think that with smaller powder charge that smaller increment increases would be in order? Also the data I got from hodgdon has a starting charge of 4.3gr and a max charge of 4.8gr. So going .5gr at a time I am basically looking at Min or Max charge with nothing in between. I was thinking of increasing charge .1 or .2 grains at a time, but wanted to see what you more experienced loaders think first. Also the loading data has a C.O.L. listed but I don't recall seeing that mentioned in ABCs. Anyone know what it is/means?


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Atroxus said:


> I was re-reading ABCs again about working up a load and the only information it had about what increments to increase powder was in the section on loading rifle rounds. It said to increase powder charge by .5grs at a time watching for signs of over pressure. Does this apply to handgun cartridges as well? I would think that with smaller powder charge that smaller increment increases would be in order? Also the data I got from hodgdon has a starting charge of 4.3gr and a max charge of 4.8gr. So going .5gr at a time I am basically looking at Min or Max charge with nothing in between. I was thinking of increasing charge .1 or .2 grains at a time, but wanted to see what you more experienced loaders think first. Also the loading data has a C.O.L. listed but I don't recall seeing that mentioned in ABCs. Anyone know what it is/means?


C.O.L. = Cartridge Overall Length... very important for consistant function.

I usually step up grains in .1 until I'm satisfied (pistol)


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Atroxus said:


> I was re-reading ABCs again about working up a load and the only information it had about what increments to increase powder was in the section on loading rifle rounds. It said to increase powder charge by .5grs at a time watching for signs of over pressure. Does this apply to handgun cartridges as well? I would think that with smaller powder charge that smaller increment increases would be in order? Also the data I got from hodgdon has a starting charge of 4.3gr and a max charge of 4.8gr. So going .5gr at a time I am basically looking at Min or Max charge with nothing in between. I was thinking of increasing charge .1 or .2 grains at a time, but wanted to see what you more experienced loaders think first. Also the loading data has a C.O.L. listed but I don't recall seeing that mentioned in ABCs. Anyone know what it is/means?


For pistol loads .2 Grain steps has worked well for me when allowed. Some powder charts will not allow much variation so I divide up the range allowed by 3 or 4 as a start.

Case overall length is just as important as powder charge so stay reasonably close. + or - .005 is acceptable but the more accurate you control length the more accurate your loads will be at the range.


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## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

I just finished loading my first 60 rounds of ammo. 3 batches of 20 each, with 4.3, 4.5, and 4.8 grains powder respectively. My OAL or COL has been 1.134"-1.141" with the average around 1.138" I noticed after my first 40 rounds that some of the lead had little blobs of lubricant on them that could explain the larger variance in OAL during the seating process, so from that point on I inspected the lead first and removed any excess lubricant blobs and it seems to help.

Now I just need to get to the range to test out my new ammo. My plan is fire 10 rounds at 4.3gr, check cases for problems, check barrel for leading and clean if needed then repeat the process for the other half of my 4.3gr batch. If no signs of overpressure I will repeat the whole process for my 4.5gr batch, then my 4.8gr batch. Once done testing will compare my notes/targets from each batch to determine which load will be my target load. Anyone see anything I am forgetting in that process?

I thought of another question today too. ABCs says to recheck powder weights every 5th or 10th charge. I have been doing this every 5th. How often do you guys recheck teh accuracy of your powder dymper for plinking ammo? How about for hunting ammo? Or match ammo?


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Atroxus said:


> I just finished loading my first 60 rounds of ammo. 3 batches of 20 each, with 4.3, 4.5, and 4.8 grains powder respectively. My OAL or COL has been 1.134"-1.141" with the average around 1.138" I noticed after my first 40 rounds that some of the lead had little blobs of lubricant on them that could explain the larger variance in OAL during the seating process, so from that point on I inspected the lead first and removed any excess lubricant blobs and it seems to help.


Make sure to clean your dies as well, especially the seater die.



> Now I just need to get to the range to test out my new ammo. My plan is fire 10 rounds at 4.3gr, check cases for problems, check barrel for leading and clean if needed then repeat the process for the other half of my 4.3gr batch. If no signs of overpressure I will repeat the whole process for my 4.5gr batch, then my 4.8gr batch. Once done testing will compare my notes/targets from each batch to determine which load will be my target load. Anyone see anything I am forgetting in that process?


I'd check the brass from each round as you fire them. In a string of 10 hot rounds, it may not be the first one that bites you. As long as you are within the safety parameters for that load, you should be fine, but it's always better to check for high pressure signs earlier rather than later.



> I thought of another question today too. ABCs says to recheck powder weights every 5th or 10th charge. I have been doing this every 5th. How often do you guys recheck teh accuracy of your powder dymper for plinking ammo? How about for hunting ammo? Or match ammo?


Are you using a powder throw to measure? If so, I check the first 8-10 rounds immediately to ensure nothing is wonky, then I check it after ever 50 rounds or so. For precision rifle ammo, I actually weigh each load by hand with a powder trickler and the scale. I use a single stage press for those rounds and a progressive for _less_ accurate rounds. ie. practice rounds/pistol rounds


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## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

I don't even have a powder trickler...yet. I just use the powder throw that came with my press kit. I figure at this point any load that functions reliably in my gun is going to be more accurate than I am. I hope with more practice to get to a point where I would benefit from fine tuning my loads for enhanced accuracy, but I think I am a ways off from that point.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I'd check your power weight every 5th load until you get to the point were you know how accurare your powder measuring system is. Then if you feel comfortable with it every 10th is good. I find that when you fill a powder measure it will take a few powder dumps before it settles down to a consistant charge. I'll usually throw a few and dump them back into the hopper before I start loading cases. I'll check the first five or so to make sure all is well and then every 5th for about ten to fifteen rounds and then every 10th if all is runnig smoothly. It isn't overkill to be to careful. Like I said earlier, as you get to know your equipment you can adjust your routine. Never let yourself get to comfortable though as that is when mistakes happen.
If I'm doing Max loads I'll weigh each charge but for light to medium practice loads a tenth either way isn't going to blow up a gun depending on the powder and load. Weighing each load will go a long way towards tight groups but when you are loading 100 rounds for practice it becomes a real chore. A good powder measure that throws powder consistantly is a real time saver.

I use a Lee Pro 1000 to load my pistol ammo. It's a great machine and will crank out ammo fast, but I learned a lesson early on with this or any progressive press. You have to check your powder drop. I was busy futzing with the bullet feeder and hadn't noticed that the return chain for the powder measure had broken. Because I was in the habbit of checking every 10 charge I caught it and only had to knock apart about 6 rounds. Even with a single stage press it is good to check each and every case for powder before you stick a bullet on top. Each type of loading system has its points were error can slip in. With a single stage press you usually size a bunch then charge a bunch and then seat the bullets. You can skip a case or double charge a case very easily. It always pays to check and then check again. "DO NOT DISTURB" is the standing order around my house when I'm loading. "NO DISTRACTIONS"!


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Make absolutely certain none of your cases contain a double charge. You don't have to weigh all but it is advisable that you look at all prior to bullet insertion.


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