# how much is enough



## michael t (Jan 26, 2006)

Would you rather carry a 9mm in a hi cap pistol or a 45 single stack 1911 type. Lets get the 9mm 45 debate going right away then maybe it will go away


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## jarhead79 (Jan 26, 2006)

Why not carry one of each. Most people carry BUGs anyway.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Normally. I would prefer a 1911 single stack; but, for concealed carry, I want something I don't have to worry about - I had a Glock 26 for 8 years. I really didn't like it at the range, but it was a gun I could carry all year long. And, even in the hot summer, I could put it back on the shelf and not have to worry about it rusting. I don't want something I have to wipe down with oil every day or even every week.

Last year I found out that the Walther P99s also have a tennifer coating, so I sold the G26 and got a Walther. The full size is actually 1 of my fav guns, but I really like the compact. 

So, I carry the compact - It is 10+1, and I rarely ever bother to carry an extra mag.


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## Lumberjack98 (Jan 26, 2006)

Shot placement fan here, so 9mm. I'd rather have more rounds.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Lumberjack98 said:


> Shot placement fan here, so 9mm. I'd rather have more rounds.


What do U carry, then?


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## TX Lightyear (Jan 29, 2006)

I don't have a .45 so I guess I'll have to answer 9MM. Even though I mostly carry .380 or .38 Special. I am a firm beliver that you should carry what makes you comfortable. If you are comfortable, chances are good you will hit your target. I have never been shot, but have been told it hurts. I figure a couple of CorBons in the torso and one in the head should solve a situation. 

Once I buy a .45 I'll answer the other part of the question. I think I probably started a new debate over which rounds make better SD. Bigger is always better provided you can shoot straight. I am working on carrying the mini .40 on long car trips. Since I paid for the extra mag, I might as well use it.

Confused?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I personally only like 9mm and .45 - I am not into 40, .357 sig, .45 Gap, etc.

I have carried 380 before, and if I found a .380 I wanted, I might do so again. But I think between 9mm and .45 ACP, that covers most situations I would ever need a gun in.


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## sonic (Jan 31, 2006)

Between the two I would go with the high cap 9. I prefer a 380 due to size/weight. 8)


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## BerettaM92FS (Jan 30, 2006)

I feel safe with my single stack 9mm (Compact M) or even my PPK/S. If I had a small revolver I'd carry it, too.


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## michael t (Jan 26, 2006)

I will only say this as a CIVILIAN I have used a pistol 2 times. !st time a Beretta 950 25 auto and 2nd a 1911A1 Both worked just fine and solved the trouble.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2006)

I shoot and carry Glock 26/19s. Good enough for me.


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

1911 8)


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2006)

2400 said:


> 1911 8)


Hi 2400,

Do you head more toward compact 1911s when it gets warm, or do you just find a way to carry the full-size?


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

GunCastGuy said:


> 2400 said:
> 
> 
> > 1911 8)
> ...


My carry gun is a custom Commander size alloy frame 1911. I carry it year around. 8)


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2006)

2400,

I have heard (and experienced a little myself) that smaller 1911s can be less reliable than their full-size counterparts. Any experience with this? Any brand hints or other ideas as to how to make sure I get a good one? I hate putting out that much money and bringing home an unreliable pistol.

Thanks


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

GunCastGuy said:


> 2400,
> 
> I have heard (and experienced a little myself) that smaller 1911s can be less reliable than their full-size counterparts. Any experience with this? Any brand hints or other ideas as to how to make sure I get a good one? I hate putting out that much money and bringing home an unreliable pistol.
> 
> Thanks


GCG
What 1911's have you been looking at or considering?
My carry gun went 2700 rounds with out ANY problems, it was filthy but never missed a beat. A Commander(4" barrel)is built on the same frame as a full size(5" barrel) 1911 is. So all things being equal they are just as reliable. My wife has a Springfield Champion as a carry gun. Other then the plunger tube falling off(at 275 rounds) it's been perfectly reliable for over 6500 rounds. She loves it! :-D


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## michael t (Jan 26, 2006)

I ve had 2 Compacts and neither were 100% reliable I have returned back to Commander size. I just picked up a good used Colt Commander I will start useing as my carry when I want more than pocket pistol.


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## Woo (May 7, 2006)

+1, 1911, you want hi cap then XD45ACP.


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## ash (May 7, 2006)

I have carried many guns concealed. I love my Glock 36, but just today I bought a Kimber Pro Carry II. After firing it for the first time, I think I have just found my new conceal carry. I always wear an undershirt so the weapon does not contact my skin so rust shouldn't really be a factor. I also carry a Sig P232 as a backup and I am very comfortable with knowing it's there. Any well placed caliber round will make the problem go away, I just feel that a few well placed .45 rounds will make the problem go away quick. So yeah, I'm a .45 man all the way.


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## Vom Kriege (May 5, 2006)

While readily admitting that the .45 ACP is the "superior" round, I shoot the 9mm much better; so, I carry it more often.


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## gene (May 6, 2006)

I switch off with 5" 1911 and CZ-75 compact


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## Stephen A. Camp (May 9, 2006)

Hello, sir. Yes, I believe that "9mm is enough" with rounds that make the most of its ballistic capabilities. I have personally seen the effects of both 9mm and .45 ACP against humans and both can "work" splendidly...and not so well at other times.

We ask a lot of our handguns and seek the elusive "one shot stop", which _probably_ doesn't exist for _physiological_ reasons unless we get a solid central nervous system hit.

Speaking only for myself, "placement is power." In other words, if you have a cartridge of adequate power for expansion and sufficient penetration, your ability to shoot that cartridge/gun combination outweighs just caliber/load characteristics. If you can get the hit or hits with the 9mm, go for it and I think you are about as well protected as you can be with any handgun caliber normally associated with self-protection. If you do just as well with a .45 ACP, then the decision boils down to which you prefer, magazine capacity or heavier caliber, Glock 21's, XD's, and some others being the exception as they hold lots of forty-five rounds.

I use _both_ 9mm and .45 ACP on ocassions when I tote a "serious" pistol. I believe that the .45 ACP with the best loads probably is more potent than the 9mm with similar loads, but I do not believe that the difference is quite so great as some other folks might. It is not enough that I'd carry a forty-five I couldn't hit with in lieu of a 9mm that I could.

Most of us would probably opt for some sort of long gun if we knew a deadly force confrontation was coming and:

1. We couldn't have a SWAT team to intercede, or
2. We couldn't escape and avoid the whole thing.

The problem is that we likely won't wake up knowing that today's the day I get into a shooting situation and we won't have an FAL, AR15, or shotgun at hand. We will probably have our defensive handgun, which is underpowered compared to about any 12 ga. shotgun load or rifle round at typical defense ranges.

Thus, it seems to me that we want:

1. A reliable handgun,
2. In adequate caliber that we can handle,
3. Loaded with expanding ammunition,
4. Coupled with the actual willingness to shoot if no other reasonable alternative exists and the skill to do it effectively.

Much debate exists over what is "adequate" and "best" loads for these calibers, but to me it seems that even more important are reliability, skill, and the proper mindset.









_I'm about as happy with a 9mm Hi Power loaded with high-performance ammunition as anything. This one is usually loaded with either Corbon's 115-gr. DPX or Winchester 127-gr. +P+ Ranger RA9TA ammunition._









_Today there are a number of rounds that seem to "work" well. From left to right: Federal 115-gr. JHP, Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P, Hornady 125-gr. XTP (TAP), Winchester 127-gr. +P+, Remington 147-gr. Golden Saber, and Speer 147-gr. Gold Dot._









_Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P seems to expand reliably in about any "soft" target it hits and does so with or without intermediate barriers._

Best.


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## Method (May 6, 2006)

Great post Mr. Stephen A. Camp. 8)


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## Richard (May 8, 2006)

For carry purposes I prefer the 45acp. Would I feel unarmed with a 9mm loaded with good ammo? No. Regards, Richard :lol:


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## highrider (May 8, 2006)

I carry an XD9 subcompact with Hydroshocks. *Always *goes bang and is surprisingly accurate for a sc.


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## AirForceShooter (May 6, 2006)

AFS


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## P97 (May 8, 2006)

michael t said:


> Would you rather carry a 9mm in a hi cap pistol or a 45 single stack 1911 type. Lets get the 9mm 45 debate going right away then maybe it will go away


Since this is a personal choice, my choice has been the .45 for several years. It's not that I would feel undergunned with anything less, but I just like the .45.


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## jonathon (May 8, 2006)

Wow, hey look, my first post here! :shock:

Anyways... my personal preference is .45 auto. Not really because it's "better" than 9mm, but just what I like. Though, I'd take a Glock 21 over a 1911 any day ;-) 

My personal opinion on the defensive handgun caliber debate is that, when it comes to the common calibers(9mm, .357 SIG, .40, .45), they are poor man killers. Looking at their performance, seems there is a wide gap, but compared to a rifle or shotgun, those "wide performance gaps" between common handgun calibers become marginal at best. This of course is not counting those big bore hand cannons ;-)

I prefer the Glock 21 because I shoot it best, felt recoil is minimal(less than my old 17 even), accuracy is very good, and it fits my hand very well. It's also the only pistol that seems "natural" to shoot for me, almost as if it was an extension of my body. I have a very hard time shooting my other pistols, and really have to focus, but with the Glock I got it made 8) 

It all boils down to personal preference, choose a pistol that you shoot well and that fits you good, thats what counts.

On a side note, this thread seems a lot more civil than threads on other boards.. hmmm :twisted:


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## 1911driver (May 9, 2006)

*.45 ACP*

I prefer and have carried a Commander sized .45 ACP for years. Have two magazines with 7 rds. of a JHP (any brand) in each.......no problems..


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## Hal8000 (May 8, 2006)

Because I reload, I prefer to have fewer calibers to have to stock components for... My favorites are .45 ACP or the 9mm... I'm comfortable with either one. For the last year or so I've been switching off between my Sig P220 (.45) and my Walther P99 (9mm) depending on how I feel that particular day. Some times the decision is made on the method of carry I have available and not the pistol itself...

I'm a proponent of bullet placement... :shock:


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## Axiom (May 8, 2006)

I am glad that everyone is discussing this nicely without starting caliber wars.

I see that on many other sites.


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## Stephen A. Camp (May 9, 2006)

Hello. I fully agree and almost never enter into these threads because of the inability of some to discuss without getting rude or seemingly having a near stroke. Seems like it must be a knowledgeable and good crew here.

Best.


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## Guest (May 10, 2006)

Stephen A. Camp said:


> Hello. I fully agree and almost never enter into these threads because of the inability of some to discuss without getting rude or seemingly having a near stroke. Seems like it must be a pretty good crew here.
> 
> Best.


+1

hopefully it will stay that way... But there's aways one or two that will come around and try to start something.


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## Dragon (May 21, 2006)

I was always a .45 fan because of the way it felt when shot. I know to some that might sound weird but the .45 pushed more towards me as the 9mm's I shot had kind of a twist to them. I recently got a S&W Mod 39 that shoots like a dream. So, I carry both now. Some days a 1911 some days the 39. I don't feel underpowered with the 9mm just finally found one I enjoy shooting and can shoot accuratly.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Almost any gun will do -- if you will do.

Caliber selection is at the bottom of list after important things like mindset, training, tactics, combatives skill, marksmanship ability, gun reliability, and actually having the gun with you when you need it.

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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

1911 45acp has been and will continue to take care of business most tried and true firearm ever madeif god carried it would be a 1911


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Glock 30 Best of both worlds. It's compact with 10 rds of 45 and my extra mag has 13 rds of 45.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

These are my two favorite rounds. However I have read so many shooting reports where the larger 45 had no more effect than the 9mm I would rather have more rounds. With both rounds producing close to the same in, foot pounds of energy, shot placement is paramount. If the shot hits a vital organ either will do the job with a good defense round. I prefer the 45 to shoot, I like the recoil better, but for carry I prefer 9mm, higher capacity and much less expensive to shoot, that means more range time to work on shot placement. I just switched to a M&P 9mm with 17+1, it replaced my Baby Eagle as my carry gun with its' tiny capacity of only 15+1. :-D


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## Hal8000 (May 8, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> Almost any gun will do -- if you will do.
> 
> Caliber selection is at the bottom of list after important things like mindset, training, tactics, combatives skill, marksmanship ability, gun reliability, and actually having the gun with you when you need it.


Bingo that! I could not agree with you more Mike! My sentiments exactly! :smt023


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Hal8000 said:


> Mike Barham at Galco said:
> 
> 
> > Almost any gun will do -- if you will do.
> ...


I disagree. I could shoot SO much better with the next gun on my list that my wife won't let me buy 

DOesn't matter what the gun is - just the next one on my list


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## kansas45 (May 20, 2006)

*Carry*

I can't carry yet as Kansas hasn't let us do that yet. When it becomes lawful to do so, I' ll carry my Springfield 45 ultra Compact mostly I think. :shock:


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

I'll stick with my 8 car .45 cal. freight train(with a 2nd mag it can be a 15 car train :twisted: :twisted:


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## 686mak (May 14, 2006)

My first thought on this subject run the same as many others. SHOT PLACEMENT! I prefer single stack guns. the 2 brands and 3 cal. that i have the best shot placement with are the makarov PM in 9X18 and .380 and the compact S&W single stack .45ACP. of all the guns I've had, these three are the ones that have been the most joy to shot and the ones i feel the most comfortable with.

8) 8) 8) :shock:


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## Mystro (May 13, 2006)

Echo! Echo!
Shot placement is the single most important factor in a gunfight.

Having said that, the 9 mm is certainly enough to stop a man, even the .22 is enough to stop a man - if shot placement protocols are followed.

Too often shot placement becomes random in the stress of a gunfight, so many of us rely on a caliber that will stop the BG with a blind shot over the hood of a car. 

.40s and .45s are proven man stoppers but not with hits to random extremeties(excluding the head of course).

Now, we're down to the nuts. Which caliber do you have absolute confidence in? Which caliber will stop the BG with one round?

I feel the only pistol that will result in a knockdown with a 50-60% target acquisition is the 10mm.

Many LEOs are forbidden to carry 10mm because of overpenetration concerns. 
The powerful 10mm round is the round I carry.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

I have never fired a 10mm but I will say this,I think there would be a great many asians(japanese) and germans that would dis-agree with you about 1 shot stopping ability of the .45(If they were still alive to dis-agree.) :roll: :-D


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

I remember the good old days when a rock would due.


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## jem375 (May 8, 2006)

I carry a Springfield Ultra Compact 45ACP and a CZ PO1 9MM mostly in the summer, but in the winter switch over to a Witness 10MM Compact for the heavier clothing wearers..


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

scooter said:


> I have never fired a 10mm but I will say this,I think there would be a great many asians(japanese) and germans that would dis-agree with you about 1 shot stopping ability of the .45(If they were still alive to dis-agree.) :roll: :-D


+1 for Scooter


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## RONNIE J (May 8, 2006)

*SHOOT TO STOP*

I believe it boils down to the fact a person should carry what they can shoot a lot to practice with. If you can not shoot the weapon to hit the target--it don't matter how big-how small-how many it carries--if you can not hit with it --you can not stop with it--#1
once mastered the art of hitting something then you can worry about big and stop power--#2

#3 #4 #5 #6--practice practice practice practice

(also have fun)

Ron


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Well, one thing about the 10mm, if the bullet misses them, the blast may knock them down!


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## Brandon_Lutz (Feb 1, 2006)

.40 Caliber man here. I just like the round. But if I had to choose between .45 or 9MM. I'd probably choose the 9 for capacity convience. However I agree with many other say, shot placement is key. 

Flinging your piece out and firing .45 rounds or 9mm rounds all over the place and not on the target won't do you any good at all. Best thing is to find the round that suits you the most and practice with it so you know what to expect behavior-wise from the round and gun.


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