# Any one else feel concern about carrying "cocked & Locked"?



## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Any one else feel concern about carrying "cocked & Locked"?

I know all about all guns are carried cocked & locked (shotguns autos, etc) but it bothers me and seems to bother others that see it also.

If I'm carrying concealed no one sees it, but if I carry it in the open it seems to bug others.

Any one else feel this way?

:smt1099


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Nope.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

When I had my XDs, technically I carried them cocked and locked and it didn't bother me at all. I was carrying the gun the way it was designed. Since you're posting in the 1911 section, I assume you're talking about carrying one. They way I see it, if you're carrying a gun, you carry with one in the chamber, and since you do not carry a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber, the only option in my book for carrying a 1911 is Condition 1.

Also, you're OCing and concerned with how people feel about the_ condition_ you are carrying in? IMO, people are going to be more concerned about the fact that you just have a gun and not so much about whether or not you have the hammer back.


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## myersn024 (Jun 16, 2009)

There are several redundant safeties on modern 1911 pistols. So, even if your thumb safety gets flipped down, an extremely unlikely set of events has to occur for an accidental discharge to happen.

My 1911 is kept in condition 1 unless it's in the gun safe, then it's condition 3.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Todd good answer

thanks


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I'll admit that it makes me a little nervous, if it has been awhile since I carried a 1911 type single action. I find myself checking the safety too often, especially if I've been sitting a lot or riding in a vehicle where it gets jostled around. Usually, as the weather starts to cool, and there are more opportunities to carry a full-size pistol, I will do more dry-fire drills to 're-acquaint' myself with cocked and locked carry.

But, checking the safety is not really a bad habit to get into, as long as you don't draw people's attention to the fact that you are carrying, and once I get used to it, again, I'm fine. I know I have good safety habits, and that I will never have my finger on the trigger unless I'm pointing at something I intend to shoot, so it's no big deal if I check the safety when nobody's looking.


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## tekhead1219 (May 16, 2008)

No concerns whatsoever with carrying condition 1.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I've carried 1911's most of my handgun shooting life and it never has bothered me to have them in condition 1. If you have an issue carrying cocked and locked you might want to change your weapon for one that might make you feel more comfortable. I do know some people that will place the hammer in the half cock position but as my old Dad always tole me..."Don't go off half cocked"
And I always paid pretty close attention to what the old man had to say. He carried one since WWII.

As stated there are safeties all over the dang things. Unless you are sticking that booger hook inside the trigger guard while you are upholstering the weapon you';ll be fine. Like I said though if it bothers you then you might want to rethink your choice in weapons. As to how others think about it I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care. It should make them think "hmmm..This guy is good to go. I guess I'll not try to take his wallet". And that's just fine with me.

It all boils down to what *you are* comfortable with. If you are not 100% comfortable with your weapon then you are in trouble. That weapon will get you or someone you don't mean to hurt. Your weapon has to be as natural as any other part of your body. Because when you choose to carry it is a part of your body. You have to be able to bring that weapon up and be good to go when you have no time to think about the action itself. God willing you never will have to but being you have chosen to be a carrier then it has to have seemed a reality to you that you can be in a situation where you might need to be able to protect your self. You can't do that if you have any type of fear or unrest doe to your weapon.

Maybe something in a SA/DA like a revolver or say a Sig 229 or equivalent You can keep one in the pipe and the hammer can stay down. There's also the LDA Para "1911-like" weapons. The first round is DA then the rest are SA. There's a good bit less travel and a lot lighter pull compared to a standard DA weapon. Those LDA's are kind of pricey though. Bu they are really nice, I really want one..heh. A CPO Sig will save some green and might give you some peace of mind. Whatever it takes to achieve that piece of mind I hope you find it.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Great advice already given. I understand your discomfort but for me no I don't feel uncomfortable cocked and locked. Once you get used to it is kind of comforting because you have a positive not a passive safety that you can visually and physically check if need be. Big Ol' physical block of the hammer on the side. But as has been said your comfort level is what counts and there are some very good DA's and DA/SA's out there to choose from.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

Long before I ever got a CCL, I had brought up this subject from time to time with clients that are LEO's. Many of them are older retired LEO's who carried the 1911 for a number of years. I've had some state that they have removed the pistol from the holster at the end of the day and found the safety off. I've had some say that other people have voiced concern about carrying a cocked pistol. I actually witnissed this myselft a number of years ago (so evidently people are in fact concerned about the hammer being in a cocked position).

None of them carry the 1911 any more. I did not specifically ask if it was because of the safety possibly moving off by itself, but they did state that the increased cartridge capacity and removing the need of having to deal with a safety lever in a high-stress situation were the reasons I heard many times. The great majority have moved on to carry hi-cap polymer guns now. My good friend and FFL dealer/CHL instructor/retired Sheriff/ and 1911/AR gunsmith only carries Glocks now. He is the main reason why I chose that brand to carry.

After picking a bunch of brains over the years, I decided that I would not be carrying around something that is cocked, and needs a safety lever. Not because I would worry about the safety lever moving without me knowing it happened, but because I do not want to have to deal with a lever if I'm in the suddenly unfortunate position of having to shoot someone. When even highly trained LEO "experts" forget to hit the lever during a sudden draw in a _real _life or death situation, I know that it's possible I will forget it too.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I have carried a 1911 now for 20 years and have never once had a safety slip down.I can't remember ever hearing of it happening for that matter. I wont say it can't because anything can happen but with a properly maintained weapon in a proper holster then it should be highly unlikely. I don't know what type of holster they were using but I would imagine that is was one of those Safariland basket weave type things(?) That should cover the safety completely. And with the trigger guard not exposed and the grip safety unable to be engaged unless your hand is wrapped around the weapon I still don't see how anything bad can happen.

By all means if one is not comfortable with any style of weapon for any reason they should not use it. But to say that the safety lever is a liability I can only go back to that persons training. If there is some LEO or anyone else for that matter out there that has forgot to drop the safety on their weapon then they had not properly trained wit that weapon. And any negative action that occurred from that persons inability to use their weapon is placed entirely on their shoulders. It's that simple. If some teen age boy does not know how to fry a burger because he didn't know how to and messed up an order people are most likely going to be upset and they will pas on that to others in that company. I'll wager that most everyone reading this has said "how damn hard is it to make a burger??!!??" I worked in food service as a manager and asst chef. I've heard all too many times people all fired up calling people idiots for not being able to do their job right. Well when lives hang in the balance I would think that people would take that much more time to make sure that they were able to use the told of their trade to properly do the job put in front of them. But as we know that is not always the case. Just like those untrained teens there are people out there that are charged with safety of the people that will never train outside of the time in the academy and after the mandatory qualifying that from what I've seen in some places is not very hard to do. There are civilians on this forum that have trained much more just to carry their weapon then kept training more than once a week at a range as well at home with drills than any LEO anywhere in the U.S. is required to do. It's this reason that I would rather have someone with a CCW in their pocket watching my back than many of the LEO I have had the chance to meet and get to know. Because more often than not they have much more training time with their weapon than the LEO that goes to the range when his superiors tell them they need to.

Again I would never tell anyone what weapon they need to carry but if you are going to carry one professionally or as a private citizen you need to be able to use that weapon as easily as you can point your finger. It's supposed to be a part of you. You should know that weapon inside and out and when you have to bring that weapon up in protection of yourself or others be able to do so without error. If you cannot you rather need to train more or put it away. You are going to hurt yourself or someone else will end up hurt due to your shortcomings. Using a handgun or any other weapon is not all fun and games. Lives can hang in the balance and I know damn well that if it's me I would have a real hard time living with myself knowing I could have prevented a shooting or a death if I had trained more effectively. That's why we train. So we can react and be able to do it without thinking.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

To put it simply... good holster+good trigger finger dicipline+leave it the frack alone= safe.

Don't fiddle with your weapon in a good holster and you won't have to worry where the safety is. The key phrase here is "good holster". Buy a holster that not only protects the trigger, but one that protects the safety. I've been carrying a 1911 for years and I've never had an issue with the safety being off in the holster. Just keep your booger hook off the bang switch and you'll be good. 

That being said, if you can't draw your weapon without keeping your finger out of the trigger guard, then practice more and learn to keep it out of the danger zone until needed. Your finger shouldn't be anywhere near the trigger until you've determined whether or not you need to pull the trigger. Simple problem.... simple solution.

Shoot safe.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

DevilsJohnson said:


> It all boils down to what *you are* comfortable with. If you are not 100% comfortable with your weapon then you are in trouble. That weapon will get you or someone you don't mean to hurt.


Exactly.

The only point I was making with my statement is that you do have to train yourself to trust the safety and to flip the lever. I carry DAO and striker fired pistols, as well as a j-frame, occasionally, so the 1911 style is the only thing I have that requires this.

But, the 1911 is my most accurate carry gun, and the one I like the best, so I like to carry it whenever I can conceal it easily. I'm only saying that it does require a 'brush up' on your draw technique, and a slight alteration in your mindset, if you have not carried it recently.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

zhurdan said:


> To put it simply... good holster+good trigger finger dicipline+leave it the frack alone= safe.
> 
> Don't fiddle with your weapon in a good holster and you won't have to worry where the safety is. The key phrase here is "good holster". Buy a holster that not only protects the trigger, but one that protects the safety.


This is the best reply so far ... great common sense ... not a lot of bravado.

I've found a "Four-in-One Holster" made by a holster maker that I've bought from before .. he makes a lot of these holsters for Texas Rangers and other lawmen ... it can be carried in straight up and down or cross draw or small of the back or FBI slant - thumb snap covers the cocked hammer and the trigger and the safety - oh by the way I bought a matching heavy duty belt and double mag holder....

go take a look

http://cows.com/2.0/index.php?page=...ategory_id=11&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=55

:smt1099


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## timrosin (Jul 19, 2009)

*C + l ?*

Don.... here is a thought for you in ALL seariousness !

If your weapon makes you "un-easy" or "nervious" ........
what is the fellon standing 3 feet from you pointing his gun at you when you look up and notice
him ............ going to do to you ??????????????????????????????????????????????

Drawing from concielment and fireing 3 rounds into center of mass in 1/2 seccond or less may be what it
takes to save you. ( or maybe something completely else) This process is simply a chain of several individual skills which when put end to end
correctly result in the desired result. (surviving) Is there a place in this for "thinking" about your 
safety or your grip or your draw stroke or thinking at all ? Probably not. I say the "thinking"
stopped when you decided you had to act.

You can try to act "defensively" like the cops and back up from bullets........ (we've seen how that 
often works ? ) or worse yet be thinking about your hardware ............

As I write this ..... literaly ....... I listen on my scanner of a carjacking with a cop as the victum.
A perfect example !

Get the idea ?????? If something ..... anything.... makes you uneasy you need to TRAIN IT OUT !


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

timrosin said:


> Don.... here is a thought for you in ALL seariousness !
> 
> Get the idea ?????? If something ..... anything.... makes you uneasy you need to TRAIN IT OUT !


Great advise Tim thanks

:smt1099


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## shootingftw (Jul 9, 2009)

I don't have one nor have I ever even shot one (I know, what is wrong with me?), but in terms of mindset, if your not comfortable with it you probably shouldn't be carrying it. 

But, if all your worried about is the fact that someone may see it and think your weird or unsafe...screw them. Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that 1911's are carried in that condition. I know and I don't own one. Go w/ what's comfortable would be my advice.


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## kudu61 (Jun 27, 2009)

Carried a 1911 in cond. 1 for years. As has been stated here, never came home to find the saftey off. However, I now carry a Kahr CW45. Not saying I won't go with the 1911 again, but I do like the lighter weight of the Kahr for CC. If this CW45 trigger were not as smooth and good as this DAO pistol is then I would stay with the Kimber SLE. See ya, Bill


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## dances with guns (Sep 10, 2009)

people that don't know about guns might would see your 1911 cocked and not realize there's a safety on. i guess that's only natural. but who cares anyway? you know that you're being safe. 

i would carry cocked and locked without worry. someone just needs to practice drawing and clicking the safety off so much that it is done without thinking about it so you don't have to worry about not deactivating the safety in a stressful situation.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Don;
Your new "Four-in-One" holster may seem to be the bee's knees right now, because you are relatively new to pistol carrying; but I suggest to you that it may do you more harm than good.
The very best save-you-life thing that you could do would be to choose one, and only one, mode and position of carry, and then to practice the heck out of it until you can make quick, effective presentations smoothly, every time.
A holster that presents you with the temptation to change its orientation every so often, for whatever reason, will only keep you from learning to draw quickly, smoothly, and effectively. You just cannot learn to use four different holsters, all at once. Nobody can.
What you really need is to get used to a very-high-quality holster that remains fixed in one position, all of the time.

BTW: I don't know who makes that "four-in-one" holster, because the site-page you cite does not provide that information, but I dispute the maker's claim (if it's he who makes it) that "he makes a lot of these holsters for Texas Rangers and other lawmen."
Most experienced professional pistol users do not buy "four-in-one"-style carry rigs. They know that staying proficient with only one holster orientation is the best way to win fights.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Steve M1911A1
Thanks for the advise.

:smt1099


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## EZ1 (Feb 21, 2009)

dances with guns said:


> people that don't know about guns might would see your 1911 cocked and not realize there's a safety on. i guess that's only natural. but who cares anyway? you know that you're being safe.
> 
> i would carry cocked and locked without worry. someone just needs to practice drawing and clicking the safety off so much that it is done without thinking about it so you don't have to worry about not deactivating the safety in a stressful situation.


Agreed, it is the way I carry mine.


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## Locke (Sep 7, 2009)

it makes me nervous but maybe I should train it out:numbchuck:


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

Since I do not drill with the pistol at the level I once did, I do have some reservations about carrying it cocked and locked; unless I have it holstered with a strap between the frame and hammer. The 1911 does have a grip safety and that makes a significant difference in the safety level. But I want that strap to protect me from myself. 

I am much less concerned about some quick draw scenario than I am being alert and having my weapon out and ready if an exigency arises. I often carry a Browning Hi-Power and I never carry that cocked and locked without the strap. Many older military people were trained to draw, charge the pistol, and fire quickly. Perhaps we have a perception that those who never trained in the method do not?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Teuthis said:


> ...Many older military people were trained to draw, charge the pistol, and fire quickly. Perhaps we have a perception that those who never trained in the method do not?


I think it's more a matter of the previous-era's military knowing that our pistol-armed troops were relatively untrained in safety due to time constraints placed upon them by wartime exigencies.

IMHO, most ADs and NDs don't take place in or about the holster, but rather well after the pistol has begun to come up onto a target. The trigger-finger presses its way into the triggerguard, and the safety comes off much too early. That's "operator error," and no holster-mounted safety strap will keep such "accidents" from happening.
(A few finger-on-the-trigger reholsterings do occur, resulting in unintended "Bang!"s, but I believe that they are well within the minority of incidents. Safety straps don't prevent them, either.)

IM(much less)HO, I firmly believe that if you carry a pistol, you have the duty to train yourself in, and to continually practice, safe gun handling.
Although I absolutely hate the word "should" when it's used as an admonishment, please forgive my use of it it when I add: You should have no need "to protect me from myself."


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## Locke (Sep 7, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I think it's more a matter of the previous-era's military knowing that our pistol-armed troops were relatively untrained in safety due to time constraints placed upon them by wartime exigencies.
> 
> IMHO, most ADs and NDs don't take place in or about the holster, but rather well after the pistol has begun to come up onto a target. The trigger-finger presses its way into the triggerguard, and the safety comes off much too early. That's "operator error," and no holster-mounted safety strap will keep such "accidents" from happening.
> (A few finger-on-the-trigger reholsterings do occur, resulting in unintended "Bang!"s, but I believe that they are well within the minority of incidents. Safety straps don't prevent them, either.)
> ...


you first sentence does not make sense to me, lot easier to train them in the use of a saftey, than the cock and draw method just my IMHO, is there a link to stats that prove your point, I probaly agree with you since most gun accidents seem to happen long after the gun is out of holster, like the famous I thought it was unloaded


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I think it's more a matter of the previous-era's military knowing that our pistol-armed troops were relatively untrained in safety due to time constraints placed upon them by wartime exigencies....





Locke said:


> you first sentence does not make sense to me, lot easier to train them in the use of a saftey, than the cock and draw method just my IMHO...


During WW2, according to my stepfather, pistol training was pretty rudimentary. It was mostly about field-stripping and keeping the piece clean. Safety issues were addressed by requiring almost everybody to carry hammer-down-on-empty-chamber. The idea was that you'd know when you were going to be in a fight, well in advance. At other times, you had no need of a ready-to-fire pistol.
In civvies, things are a little different. You can easily find yourself in a fight with no warning at all, and at very close range. You need to be able to respond instantly, not after the second or two it'll take you to rack the slide after presenting your weapon.



Locke said:


> ..._s there a link to stats that prove your point, I probaly agree with you since most gun accidents seem to happen long after the gun is out of holster, like the famous I thought it was unloaded_


_
There probably are such statistics but, I'm ashamed to say, I no longer know where to find them. My statement is based more upon experience than on statistical evidence. Sorry._


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## dances with guns (Sep 10, 2009)

it's safer than carrying a glock, which is more like cocked and unlocked.

so no, i'm not concerned about safety with cocked and locked carry


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

dances with guns said:


> it's safer than carrying a glock, which is more like cocked and unlocked...


In my (small) experience with Glocks, I think that I should dispute your point.
I believe that the Glock system is actually safer to carry concealed than a cocked-and-locked 1911, especially in the hands of a neophyte.
I'm pretty competent with a 1911, but my daily carry is a safety-less, DAO, .45 ACP semi-auto because I don't have to wonder whether or not some unknown agent or occurrence has accidentally wiped my pistol's safety-lever to "off." The DAO trigger pull alone provides all the safety I require.
(I'm not as sure of the inherent safety of a Glock with a light-action trigger connector, though.)


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 Steve M1911A1

:smt1099


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## bent21606 (Sep 21, 2009)

i dont think i would carry chambered. no reason to. i guess if i lived in a different state id be different. i guess if i even had the option to carry i could think about it more lol


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

bent21606 said:


> i dont think i would carry chambered. *no reason to.*


What?!?!? If you don't carry chambered you might as well carry a brick because if you think you can draw and rack the slide fast enough to get a shot off when seconds, literally, count, then you've seen too many action movies.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 Todd

If your going to carry - you gotta carry chambered - just my .02

But to each his own.

:smt1099


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## bent21606 (Sep 21, 2009)

i was just tough to be extremely careful with guns. i dont keep loaded guns in my house. the safetys are always on no matter what. and i wont buy a gun with no safety. your believe are different then mine it doesn't mean im wrong


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

bent21606 - Your absolutely right - whatever works for you is good for you and safety is always good.

You may want to reconsider what you were taught as it pertains to CCW. I was taught by my father exactly the way you were taught.

After two different stints as a policeman once in NJ and again in Texas, I had to re-adjust my thinking on carrying a concealed weapon at all and then just how I would carry it.

I learned that the police always want to be there to protect you, but they can't be everywhere at once - 90% of the time they arrive after the incident has already finished.

I didn't even use to carry a concealed weapon, but I decided it was my responsibility to protect my self & my family and I wasn't going to be a "vicitim" . 

Well if you decide that, you must carry and once you decide to carry, then you must learn that things happen to fast to rack your slide and feed a round.

You might want to consider carrying a small revolver, but I still believe you might want to study and re-think not carrying it loaded.

Just my .02 - I'm trying to be helpful and your are right for you with whatever you decide.

:smt1099


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

bent21606 said:


> i was just tough to be extremely careful with guns. i dont keep loaded guns in my house. the safetys are always on no matter what. and i wont buy a gun with no safety. your believe are different then mine it doesn't mean im wrong


So let me get this straight, you want to buy an handgun for home defense, but you want to keep it unloaded and with a safety on. So when you need it (probably at night, being woken out of a dead sleep), you will have time to:

1: Retrieve gun from storage
2: Find magazine (hopefully you will at least have that loaded ahead of time)
3: Load the magazine, chamber a round
4: Remove the safety
5: Address the threat

How much time to you plan on having when you need the gun?


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## bent21606 (Sep 21, 2009)

once again i live in new jersey. surrounded by farm land. if someone breaks into my house it would probable be a punk kid who i couldnt use a gun on anyway. and yes i would have a clip loaded. but i really dont live anywhere where anything like that ever happens. home protection is just a plus part of a handgun. if i were in a threatening area i probably would carry loaded. but i cant carry i dont feel the need to and i dont feel the need to keep a loaded gun in my house or my room for that madder


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Well there you go - if you live in rural NJ there isn't anyplace prettier.

You need to do what's comfortable for you.


:smt1099


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## sloopy312 (Sep 23, 2009)

dances with guns said:


> people that don't know about guns might would see your 1911 cocked and not realize there's a safety on. i guess that's only natural. but who cares anyway? you know that you're being safe.
> 
> i would carry cocked and locked without worry. someone just needs to practice drawing and clicking the safety off so much that it is done without thinking about it so you don't have to worry about not deactivating the safety in a stressful situation.


Nelson: As retired military and some flight engineering we would practice and practice until our actions were automatic. Not to say we wern't thinking but when an emergency came up and a mistake could cost you your life you had to act quickly and responsibly. Same way in a fighting condition. I have more confidence in my hands and feet if I'm in a strike position than a gun as your hands can be very quick if you let automatic reflex take over. 
I only say this because some gang kids I worked with are in prison because they shot someone in the heat of the moment. One was only 16 when he went to prison for murder in 1996 and his early release date won't be until 2023.
My life has been threatened and I have been shot at, knives taken to me... and yet it wasn't the Crips, Bloods, Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords or Latin Kings I had to worry about; it was the other guy who was quick tempered, insecure etc.
I have a Tatical Mossberg, 8 rounds of buck, for protection and will purchase probably a Mark 23 H&K .45, and I may be wrong but I feel secure enough not to carry my weapon cocked and chambered. In the past I could get rounds off pretty quick and accurately without having a bullet in the chamber. Out of striking range I can move. If I sense danger I'll have time to chamber. If I am close enough and a gun is pointed at me I would feel safer disarming the person with my hands then I would trying to draw my chambered pistol.
This is not a matter of bravado but a conciousness that life is precious and in my work in gang hoods I was always able to diffuse the situation.
I hope I make sense.


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## ArmyCop (May 7, 2006)

I don't have a problem with it.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I was wondering when the "I Live In a Safe Area" defense was going to surface in this thread.


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## sixguncowboy (Jul 7, 2009)

dondavis3 said:


> Any one else feel concern about carrying "cocked & Locked"?
> If I'm carrying concealed no one sees it, but if I carry it in the open it seems to bug others.
> :smt1099


Mr. Davis:

We do not have open carry in Texas yet. Although we're working on it. If you're carrying openly in public, other than while hunting or at a shooting range, you're putting your CHL at jeopardy. You're going to get those looks whether you're carrying cond. 1 or 2.

I've been carrying cocked & locked for 35+ years and never had a safety come off in the holster. Neither have I heard of it happening with anyone that I know. When I first started carrying a 1911 as a duty weapon I was a little uncomfortable with cond.1, but all the old hands told me that was the *only* way to carry it as cond 2 (round chambered, hammer down) is not safe, should it be dropped on a hard surface. Should one have to use their gun in a defensive situation cond. 3 (hammer down, round unchambered) takes too long to put the gun into action and could cost them their life.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Gosh sixguncowboy I didn't know that 

Of course it was hunting, and it wasn't even in Texas.

:smt1099


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

bent21606 said:


> i dont think i would carry chambered. no reason to. i guess if i lived in a different state id be different. i guess if i even had the option to carry i could think about it more lol


Carrying an unchambered weapon is about as useful as carrying the loaded mag in your pocket and the weapon empty. Believe me when I tell you that (God forbid)when you need that weapon you are more than likely not going to have time to rack a slide. If it's so safe in your area that you believe you don't really need your weapon then I must question your desire to carry it to begin with. I live in the sticks where everyone knows me and I can leave my doors unlocked if I wanted to. But I don't because there's always a chance something bad could happen. I carry a weapon because I travel around the area a good bit and something bad can happen. There are no safe places. Bad has a way of popping up when you least expect it sometimes and if that bad does show it's face a half a second can save or end your life.

Weapons were designed to be carried loaded with one on the pipe. "Israeli" carry (full mag not one on the pipe) come from citizens using police supplied weapons and they had too many different models and it was easier to tell the people to carry like that than train the citizens how to use all the different weapons. Being you own your weapon and I would imagine that you know how to use it properly you don't have the need to do this. If it makes you nervous to carry a fully loaded weapon then you might want to question your choice of weapons or even why you carry to begin with.

I am not trying to be an ass or anything. I have learned from some peoples mistakes and my own training as well as personal experiences. You can not guarantee you will have the time to rack a slide and get ready to shoot. Lives are taken in a half a second. Time is your enemy in a bad situation.

I'm all for being safe. It's why we don't practice as much as we train. We train to be able to react fast and to be able to do what's needed while trying to keep ourselves safe and all around us at the time. Even in "safer" communities you wont see an officer carrying their weapon with it empty in the chamber. And I know many that have been on duty for 20 years and never draw their weapon unless they are at the range. But that weapon wont have an empty chamber.

Some weapon types feel more safe than others for different people for different reasons. But the only one more safe carrying with an empty chamber is the person that has instigated the situation that is causing you to draw your improperly loaded weapon.

Again I'm not trying to upset you. It's just a simple truth.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't know why I bother.....BUT.....The pistol is designed to be carried cocked and locked.......otherwise carry a large rock and learn to throw well. :goofy:


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## Big Boomer (Sep 27, 2009)

Never! Never! carry a Springfield Armory Brazilian Junker cocked and locked. Have you ever wondered why there is a third detente cut into Springfield hammers. The same reason they CAN NOT sell parts.....Extreme quality control problems with their Turkish MIM parts.

A well made 1911 can be carried half cocked and was done so by all the lefties during their tour of duty in the service. Springfield Armory Brazilian Junk are not quality made guns.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Big Boomer said:


> Never! Never! carry a Springfield Armory Brazilian Junker cocked and locked. Have you ever wondered why there is a third detente cut into Springfield hammers. The same reason they CAN NOT sell parts.....Extreme quality control problems with their Turkish MIM parts.
> 
> A well made 1911 can be carried half cocked and was done so by all the lefties during their tour of duty in the service. Springfield Armory Brazilian Junk are not quality made guns.


:smt172

Also, condition 2 carry is asking for a negligent discharge due to a hammer slip, don't do it.


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## Fred40 (Jan 7, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> :smt172
> 
> Also, condition 2 carry is asking for a negligent discharge due to a hammer slip, don't do it.


+1

Nothing wrong with Springfields.


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## Big Boomer (Sep 27, 2009)

Fred40 said:


> +1
> 
> Nothing wrong with Springfields.


You like them....I hate them. This is still America isn't it? I still have my first Amendment rights don't I? I work on them all the time and make a very good living repairing them with real metal parts that don't break like Turkish MIM parts!:smt1099


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## Big Boomer (Sep 27, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> :smt172
> 
> Also, condition 2 carry is asking for a negligent discharge due to a hammer slip, don't do it.


With a Wilson extra heavy duty firing pin spring we could not get a AD no matter how hard we hit it and knocked off half cock. Just not enough inertia to pop a primer!

AD's are caused they just don't happen. Here read the original 1911/1911a1 manual.

http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm

:buttkick:


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Big Boomer said:


> With a Wilson extra heavy duty firing pin spring we could not get a AD no matter how hard we hit it and knocked off half cock. Just not enough inertia to pop a primer!
> 
> AD's are caused they just don't happen. Here read the original 1911/1911a1 manual.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about a drop test, I'm talking about some fool letting go of the hammer while decocking and touching one off.


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## Big Boomer (Sep 27, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> I'm not talking about a drop test, I'm talking about some fool letting go of the hammer while decocking and touching one off.


Franky Speaking that can happen with any firearm. The best safety is the one between your ears! There were several left handed guys that carried half cocked with a pull stretched firing pin spring in Nam with me. They would pull the spring to about a half inch longer. We had to get by with what we had. You would be amazed what a good water repellent that Esquire Paste Shoe Polish is. Try it on a blued gun. It will make it look purrrrtty too. :smt033


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Big Boomer said:


> Franky Speaking that can happen with any firearm. The best safety is the one between your ears! There were several left handed guys that carried half cocked with a pull stretched firing pin spring in Nam with me. They would pull the spring to about a half inch longer. We had to get by with what we had. You would be amazed what a good water repellent that Esquire Paste Shoe Polish is. Try it on a blued gun. It will make it look purrrrtty too. :smt033


Agreed, I'm sure it's been done. Just like when on guard duty we were supposed to be condition 3, right?

All I'm saying is that the likelihood of touching a round increases exponentially by lowering the hammer on a a loaded 1911. As far as lefties are concerned, just go get an ambi. safety. :smt083

Given the choices, I'd rather have a condition 3 1911 on my side than a condition 2, but will take condition 1 over all others.


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## Big Boomer (Sep 27, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> Agreed, I'm sure it's been done. Just like when on guard duty we were supposed to be condition 3, right?
> 
> All I'm saying is that the likelihood of touching a round increases exponentially by lowering the hammer on a a loaded 1911. As far as lefties are concerned, just go get an ambi. safety. :smt083
> 
> Given the choices, I'd rather have a condition 3 1911 on my side than a condition 2, but will take condition 1 over all others.


Point Taken I like my Glock 36 with a 3.5 trigger! :smt023


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## sfav8r (Sep 1, 2009)

It all about being comfortable with your handgun, understanding how the safety features work and training on a regular basisThe mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don't understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.

Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.

Condition Three adds a degree of "insurance" against an accidental discharge since there is no round in the chamber. To bring the gun into action from the holster, the pistol must be drawn and the slide racked as the pistol is brought to bear on the target. This draw is usually called "the Israeli draw" since it was taught by Israeli security and defense forces. Some of the real expert trainers can do an Israeli draw faster than most of us can do a simple draw, but for most of us, the Israeli draw adds a degree of complexity, an extra step, and an opening for mistakes in the process of getting the front sight onto the target.

Paul Bonelli


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## Peaceful (Oct 2, 2009)

*Cocked & Locked*

Gentlemen, Though I'm new here on the forum I've carried for almost 60 yrs. I do like the 1911 and yes cocked & locked. Did you also realize that your other models are also cocked & locked? You just cannot see it. 
Peaceful:smt1099


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## PureWon009 (Oct 23, 2009)

...


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## the.batman (Jan 20, 2007)

My 2 cents- Become very familiar with your 1911 and train (preferably with a professional) to operate that gun in condition one- that's the way it was designed to be used. I've carried one in excess of 15 years (condition one) and never had an issue.


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

Nope, if your pistol is in proper condition you should have no worries.
GIs did it for years with no problems.


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