# Need a 9mm that will shoot 2'' groups at 25 yds



## DrPreacher (Feb 19, 2008)

I would like recommendations for a 9mm that will consistently shoot 2" groups at 25 yards. If possible does such a gun exists in a carry model? I would also like to keep expenses to about $500.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Rick


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

There are lots of 9mm guns that will produce about a 2" group at 25yds.

There are very few shooters who can produce 2" groups at 25yds.

There are very few SIGHTS on a 9mm gun that will produce 2" groups at 25yds.

By "carry model" do you mean 3" barrel? Good luck... Most highly customized, $2000+ 1911 Model 5" target guns will shoot 2" or less, from a rest, inside 3 inches in the hand of a pro.

Physically capable, yes. Practically feasible, no.

My XD45 4”, with 2 days per week of practice, and thousands of rounds down range, and years of experience, will produce 1.5” groups off-hand at 7yds, 2.5-3.0” groups at 10-15yds, and 5-6” groups at 25yds. Off a rest??? I haven’t shot my XD45 off a rest at 25yds, but I bet it’s 2.0-2.5” capable. An XD9 Tactical (5”), would no doubt be as good. 

No doubt a Sig, Glock, HK, etc would/could be as good, but most guns are much more accurate than the hand that holds them, or the ammo in them...

JW


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

What Jeff said is the Gospel preacher.

It's not so much what the gun can do for you as what you will do to the gun that determines ultimate accuracy.


:smt1099


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## SigZagger (Aug 16, 2006)

I have nothing to add that hasn't been addressed. It's the "shooter" who puts the rounds into a 2" diameter at 25 yards, with a stock $500.00 automatic.


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## Glockamania® (Dec 21, 2006)

A Glock 34 with a steady hand.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

To be a bit more helpfull regarding the specific question:

Steady bench with lots of sand bags.

XD40 Tactical (5"): Best 5 shot group at 15 yards 5/8 inch
XD9 Service (4"): Best 5 shot group at 15 yards 3/4 inch
M&P40 (4 1/4"): Best 5 shot group at 15 yards 3/4 inch
M&P9 (4 1/4"): Best 5 shot group at 15 yards 3/4 inch

15 yards because of failing eyesight.
This data was gathered during numerous shoots when testing bullet/powder/charge etc and represent the best I could do not the guns best.

:smt1099


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## DrPreacher (Feb 19, 2008)

I guess I am asking about the capability of the gun.....that way I know that the "potential" accuracy is there. Oh....and thanks for "the gospel" reference.....lol. Maybe which gun has the most potential accuracy would have been a better question. 

You guys are the greatest!!! Thanks for the help!!!!


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

You can make most any gun shoot accurately with some fitting work by improving its lock-up with a gunsmith, but this is will cost you money. Are you looking for a gun for target shooting or for defensive purposes. A handgun that shoots 2" groups consistently is a pretty high demand. Most marksmen are not even capable of producing groups this well on a repeatable basis. Most of the big names like Glock, FNP, S&W, Springfield, etc, that are priced aroun $500 will produce groupings 3"-4" on a regular basis which is more then sufficient for Self defense purposes and they are reliable. Some target guns are tuned for a specific load and are very finicky and won't digest every type of loading you put through it, and these guns tend to be quite pricey. S&W 952 Performance Center-$2544.00, SIG X-five $2000+, there are many 1911 target models made by various manufactuers starting at $900 and up.


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## Black Metal (Jan 16, 2008)

cz75 has been considered one of the most accurate handguns right out of the box and the price is pretty decent.


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

If 2" from a rest at 25 yards with a 9mm were important to me, I'd get a 1911 or Browning P35, and have a gunsmith install/fit a Bar-Sto barrel, and do a trigger job.

However, if you are looking for out of the box, a SIG P210 will do that. The SIG P210 is the most intrinsically accurate 9mm you can buy. Bring your checkbook.


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

The SIG 210, very nice, probably the best action I have ever felt on any production gun, but yeah if you want the supercar of handguns expect to pay supercar prices.


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## PanaDP (Jul 20, 2007)

My XD9 would probably fit the bill. As I get better the gun looks better. I have the 4 inch. The 5 inch would be even more of a nail driver.

This same thing could be said for any glock, sig, XD, M&P, 1911, etc. out there that is in good working condition.

If you want to make a really hardcore target gun, you're talking some serious tuning and tightening, as well as dedicating the gun to a single ammunition.


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## tex45acp (May 26, 2006)

Look around for a good used Browning Hi Power. I bought both of these for close to your cost range for each and they shoot quite accurately, even with the low end Winchester White Box 9mm from WalMart.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

As others have stated it is much more the shooter than the gun. Even my Sigma will shoot 2 inch patterns at 25 yards, the problem is it's owner can't:smt033.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

I am curious about the reason you 'need' to consistently produce 2" groups at 25 yds with a 'carry' pistol.


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## SigZagger (Aug 16, 2006)

*75 feet accuracy for a "carry gun"...*

Submoa is right, since statistics indicate most defensive shootings occur with 10-15 feet. You shoot someone at 75 feet, you better have a very good practicing criminal defense attorney in your speed dial.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

SigZagger said:


> You shoot someone at 75 feet, you better have a very good practicing criminal defense attorney in your speed dial.


That's sound advice even if you end up shooting a guy a contact distance.

I'd be happy with a carry gun that shot into 4" at 25. The chances of me needing to make a head shot around a hostage at 25 yards with a pistol are essentially non-existent. I can't shoot well enough under stress to take advantage of a 2"/25yd carry gun, anyway.

As the other fellows have mentioned, guns that shoot that accurately are a heck of a lot more common than shooters who can do the same.


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

It's not the gun; it's the guy behind the trigger. Practically any production handgun will, if strapped to a bench, shoot a 2" group at 25 yards. In the hands of a shooter, however, there are far more factors.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Try a shotgun.


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## DrPreacher (Feb 19, 2008)

*Educate me up....*

I guess I am looking for the best possible carry weapon......it's all in how you phrase the question. I would like one gun that could be CC and used to perhaps shoot some IDPA in the future.

Searching for that all elusive perfect gun.............


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## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

DrPreacher said:


> I guess I am looking for the best possible carry weapon......it's all in how you phrase the question. I would like one gun that could be CC and used to perhaps shoot some IDPA in the future.
> 
> Searching for that all elusive perfect gun.............


That gun really doesn't exist unless you want to and can comfortably carry a true 1911.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

There's a ton of 9mm's that can produce those results with a few mods anyway..The hard part is getting the person shooting it to do their part. 

As me Pappy used to say it was a poor mechanic that blamed his tools:smt082


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

DrPreacher said:


> I guess I am looking for the best possible carry weapon......it's all in how you phrase the question. I would like one gun that could be CC and used to perhaps shoot some IDPA in the future.
> 
> Searching for that all elusive perfect gun.............





Dredd said:


> That gun really doesn't exist unless you want to and can comfortably carry a true 1911.


My G34 can do it, when I'm up to the challenge. It's shorter and lighter than a 1911A1, but a bit thicker (not very much). 2X shots on tap, low bore axis for minimal muzzle flip, and I understand the G34 is _VERY_ popular in IDPA.


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## Alaskan_Viking (Jun 13, 2006)

H&K P7 ... Oh, under $500.00...


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Yeah, that means any G34 will have to be a used one, too.

But hey, that's okay, a new gun becomes used the moment you fire the first shot, right? 
No "safe queens" in MY household...


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## PX (May 14, 2006)

DrPreacher said:


> I guess I am asking about the capability of the gun.....that way I know that the "potential" accuracy is there. Oh....and thanks for "the gospel" reference.....lol. Maybe which gun has the most potential accuracy would have been a better question.


My suggestion:

HK P7

J.Pomeroy


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## hawcer (Feb 22, 2008)

It's all in the shooter.But I think different sight designs have alot to do with "long range" accuracy.

Most handgun front sight blades are wide enough to cover a 2" area of a target at 25yrds...kinda makes it hard to pin-point every shot without lots and lots of practice with the same gun,form,ammo(you'll need a nit-picky hand loader here) and conditions.

But,as everyone else has stated....It's the shooter that pulls the trigger.

For example:

I was at the range shooting my Star BM (old surplus 9mm).I was getting decent 4" groups at about 15yds.Then my buddy hands me his NEW S&W 9mm.It has a longer barrel,isn't worn out and is of a newer design.I should get great groups with this ,I thought.NOPE...all over the map with the first half of the magazine.By the time I when through 2 magazines I was hitting the target with slightly better groups then my BM.

It goes to show...not all 9mm's react the same and it's up to the shooter to staighten it out!

Good luck


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## SigZagger (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm sure you are reading all these suggestions and wondering, why hasn't anyone named the "perfect accurate" handgun. Lets say the vast majority of $500.00 stock auto's are created equal. The problem is not all shooters are equal. For example, I have an expensive custom auto. I took it to the range and fired a decent grouping. But, I thought it could do better, so I had one of the range employees shoot it. Yikes! His holes were spread out further than mine. So, as much as it has been repeated, it's the shooter most of the time, not the gun. If I may suggest in that price range maybe you should look at the Glock 17/19 and the SA XD9. Both are poly and would work for CC and IDPA. But, handle both side by side, because they are different in design. Good luck on your adventure.


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## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

DJ Niner said:


> My G34 can do it, when I'm up to the challenge. It's shorter and lighter than a 1911A1, but a bit thicker (not very much). 2X shots on tap, low bore axis for minimal muzzle flip, and I understand the G34 is _VERY_ popular in IDPA.


Well, would you use it as CCW? It is rather large after all.


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## hawcer (Feb 22, 2008)

Do this...find out what hanguns are popular in IDPA, that are priced around your $500 mark.Then within those selections,determine which one(s) Would also be good for a CCW.Then it's up to personal preference between your final selections.

It might not be that 2" group shooter your hoping for...but it does cover both uses you are intending to use it for.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Dredd said:


> Well, would you use it as CCW? It is rather large after all.


I have, and I will again at some point. But I have smaller guns on the same pattern that will do the same job (with slightly lesser accuracy) but are much easier to conceal, so the G34 doesn't get the nod too often.

I already compared it to a 1911A1, which some folks have regularly been carrying concealed for the last 40-50+ years. It is also smaller than a 4-inch barreled S&W K-frame revolver, like a M10/M15/M19, that have been successfully used for CCW for decades. Click link for a photo from our HGF Photo Gallery and a description:

http://www.handgunforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=222&ppuser=1533


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## DrPreacher (Feb 19, 2008)

*Very interesting thread....*

Guys, 
Thanks so much for tons of information. This has been very helpful to me in my search for "the ultimate weapon." You guys are the greatest!! Right now I have a Smith and Wesson 4006....great gun, very heavy. I just purchased a Sig P6....looking forward to taking it to the range.

Interestingly I have a CZ82 9 x 18 mm with a polygonal barrel. This thing is crazy accurate. At my CC class it out shot every gun in the class.

Again, thanks for all the help.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Those are all solid guns in each of their respective classes. As long as you spend the time to get good with any (or all) of them, you'll be well-armed.


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