# Why the glock hate?



## LefteeTris

I don't understand it. I have a ruger p95 and a RIA 1911. I love them dearly. A friend of mine has a glock 26. I've shot it. I can't say I hated it. I do have big ass hands so a sub is too small for me and I couldn't hit tight groups with it. But thats not glocks problem that's an incompatibility between my large hands and a sub conpact lol. I've shot a glock 19 and had no problems. 

I just don't understand why does everyone hate it? And on the opposite side I've noticed there are those "glock only" people and "nothing else compares." but I've never been given a reason why they consider them the best. 
Anyone care to share some opinions?


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## Holly

I would certainly not say _everyone_ hates them. I would be more inclined to say that the_ majority_ of people like them... Even though they are ugly as hell, which is why I* do not* like them.


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## FNISHR

It's kind of like brand bashing over in the motorcycle world. Some people think it makes them look sophisticated; the more experienced just leave each to their own.


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## chessail77

Sometimes it is just the opposite ...Glockaphiles love them so much that they push them for everyone and everything and get a backlash reaction.....Glocks are excellent for what they are, tough, reliable etc.....just not for everyone...........JJ


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## cwl1862

chessail77 said:


> Sometimes it is just the opposite ...Glockaphiles love them so much that they push them for everyone and everything and get a backlash reaction.....Glocks are excellent for what they are, tough, reliable etc.....just not for everyone...........JJ


Thru that! Glocks are fugly, reliable and tough. However contrary to what some may have you believe Glocks are not the end all be all of everything. There are many good quality reliable firearms that are NOT Glocks such as Ruger, Kimber, Colt, SIG, Springfield Armory, S&W etc. I don't own a single Glock and most likely never will. I do not care for them at all, yet some glockofiles would disparage someone because their carry weapon isn't a glock. Frankly this just rubs some folks such as myself the wrong way. Your Glock isn't a supergun. Frankly I'll take a Ruger SR9/9c over a Glock 17/19/26 any day, or a SR40/40c over the Glock 22/23/27 or even the corresponding Beretta, Kimber, S&W or SIG pistol 220/228/229/239 over any glock pistol.
Some glock folks come off like your not carrying a quality firearm unless your carrying a Glock, and that just ticks people off.


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## jdw68

I own a few different kinds of pistols, such as smith and wesson 686, beretta 92, rugers, colt 1911, and a glock 26. I really like all of those guns and don't see the glock as being superior or inferior to the others. Some people want only glocks, while others act like the 1911 is the holy grail of firearms. I feel like whatever you have fun shooting is the way to go. I put 100 rounds through a brand new Ruger LCP today and had a lot of fun. That little gun will go great with my Ruger LC9.  And I also love my glock 26 it is rugged, reliable, very easy to shoot accurately, and a very attractive firearm!:numbchuck:


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## FNISHR

There's not a thing wrong with eclectic tastes. I enjoy my Glocks, my Sigs, my Springfield, and may expand my collection further someday. But all of you folks who've answered this thread would fall into the category of savvy enthusiasts, not bashers.


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## skullfr

I dont hate any weapon except one that isnt reliable.I just dont care for them personally.I am just an ol guy and want steel.I dont care about weight.I just dont like it when someone talks bad about my choice.I am the one who has to be happy and confident with it.


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## genesis

LefteeTris said:


> I don't understand it. I have a ruger p95 and a RIA 1911. I love them dearly. A friend of mine has a glock 26. I've shot it. I can't say I hated it. I do have big ass hands so a sub is too small for me and I couldn't hit tight groups with it. But thats not glocks problem that's an incompatibility between my large hands and a sub conpact lol. I've shot a glock 19 and had no problems. I just don't understand why does everyone hate it? And on the opposite side I've noticed there are those "glock only" people and "nothing else compares." but I've never been given a reason why they consider them the best. Anyone care to share some opinions?


Hi Leftee. It all just a matter of personal preference. We have a gaggle of mighty fine manufactures and models to choose from. We're darn lucky to have so many really fine choices. I don't hate Glocks. I think they're top-notch. I just "prefer" revolvers.

Don <><


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## bubbinator

The most cited complaint I hear is they don't come up to point of aim for many shooters. Hold one, unloaded of course, in firing stance with your eyes closed. When you open them and look at the sights you will see the Glock is pointing high and you must adjust your point of aim to be on target. A 1911 held the same way will be on target. This all has to do with grip angle. I own 1911s, Ruger and Walter 22s, 2 Glocks, both duty weapons, one issued and one a hi-cap 45 that I always scored 100s with on the range-but I had to pay attention to sight picture. They are reliable, popular with LE due to Murphy's Law-lowest bidder thing. My carry guns are Sig/1911 and Browning HP with the Glocks at home as HD guns. The lack of safety due to ADs is also mentioned. The G17s w 5# triggers we were issued to replace S&W M66s years ago were a nightmare of accident discharges. The G22 we got later, after Sig P220 45s for 7 yrs, were not quite as bad but as a FA Instructor from the G17 days I made sure we trained very hard on weapon safety.


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## SouthernBoy

Deleted.


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## SouthernBoy

Some folks hold strong biases about a number of things. Cars, boats, vacation locations, types of homes, and firearms. I have never understood the 'why' or 'how' anyone could want to be so biased towards a firearms manufacturer. I can understand preferences and believe those are both valid and good. If someone doesn't care for a Glock, that's fine. But to hate the gun, one has to wonder about their mental stability.

I have biases both for and against certain firearms but my biases are based upon opinions and preferences... particularly preferences. And those are based upon facts as they relate to me and a specific firearm. I may not care for a certain handgun, but I don't hate it. That would be rather ignorant since it is an inanimate object (hard to imagine hating plastic and steel).

As for Glocks, I like them quite a bit and do carry them. In fact, I'm heading to the range this morning with two of them which have new sights. I want to spend a little time with just them and me seeing how well we do without my usual bi-Monday company at that range. I view Glock as I do most other guns. They're tools. The Glock happens to be one of the best tools in one's tool chest of handgun choices because it does the one thing for which it was designed and built better than just about any other of its siblings: it works... time after time after time.

For example, last Monday my bi-Monday friend and I were at above said range for our bi-weekly range work. We go through a number of different scenarios with varying targets (not the common or usual kind) and I was using my M&P 9mm Pro Series, which is a fine piece. During the Dot Torture drill, my M&P failed to hold the slide back after the last round a half dozen times. And to automatically ran the slide home to full battery several times when I was doing a rapid reload. Never had this happen with my Glocks. The M&P tends to be a little magazine-sensitive and their factory mags are not of the best design or quality in my opinion. Glock magazines are among the best out there.

So I say, let the haters hate them... that's their prerogative. Lord knows why they'd discount one of the best self defense combat handguns devised, but they have their reasons and choices. Me? I'll use what works and is best for me.


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## mook012

JMO - they are just butt ugly and I don't shoot plastic.Sounds harsh, but that is the way I see it. If other people like them - that's ok but don't try to push them on me.


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## berettabone

It may be, because they are ugly, maybe, because you see them often in the hands of gangbangers...maybe the trigger....each to his own...I prefer steel, and hammers, and manual safeties.


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## recoilguy

cwl1862 said:


> Thru that! Glocks are fugly, reliable and tough. However contrary to what some may have you believe Glocks are not the end all be all of everything. There are many good quality reliable firearms that are NOT Glocks such as Ruger, Kimber, Colt, SIG, Springfield Armory, S&W etc. I don't own a single Glock and most likely never will. I do not care for them at all, yet some glockofiles would disparage someone because their carry weapon isn't a glock. Frankly this just rubs some folks such as myself the wrong way. Your Glock isn't a supergun. Frankly I'll take a Ruger SR9/9c over a Glock 17/19/26 any day, or a SR40/40c over the Glock 22/23/27 or even the corresponding Beretta, Kimber, S&W or SIG pistol 220/228/229/239 over any glock pistol.
> Some glock folks come off like your not carrying a quality firearm unless your carrying a Glock, and that just ticks people off.


This is a prime example of what FNISHR mentioned when he referenced motorcycle world brand bashing. You could substitute Harley in the place of Glock and and Honda or Victory or Kawasaki in the place of Ruger and you would have 100's of identical posts on motorcycle boards. When people don't own a single (insert brand here) and most likely never will, I have a very hard time taking their opinion about them with any degree of credibility. It does rub some folks the wrong way when someone says their brand is superior. To have your retort be my brand is Superior and I wouldn't own your brand I fail to discern the difference in the two. Oh well like he also said the more experianced leave each to their own.

In the motorcycle world I have a saying that goes.................it's that you ride.

With guns I say.....................Its that you shoot!

Neither is it a matter of what.

RCG


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## usmcj

Hating an inanimate object is pretty much an exercise in futility. One gains nothing from it.


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## Allterrain

I "was" a glock basher because my brother in law is a cop and he loves glocks. I dont like my brother in law so therefore I'm not going to like glocks. Bashed them for years just because of that. I know, thats the stupidest thing you ever heard but just being honest with you. This saturday went into a gun shop and said what have you got that is a good cc weapon. He thru down a pistol and without looking at it I just grabed it up and instantly I liked it. And guess what, it was a glock 26. I bought it. Not going to bash glocks anymore. The mag release does suck but really like the gun. Oh, by the way, still dont like my brother in law!!


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## Shipwreck




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## Steve M1911A1

Well, jeeze, if God tells us that Glocks aren't the right ones, I guess we ought to listen. Right?
I'm going to go right out and buy an Italian. Do you think that Sophia Loren is still for sale?

There are so many different pistols for sale out there.
When you've chosen and bought one, you want to feel that you've "done the right thing." Right?
This means that your ego is involved.
So, if you've bought a Glock, it just has to be the best thing since flush toilets and sliced bread. You love your Glock.
And if you've bought something else, well, it, too, just has to be the best thing since flush toilets and sliced bread. After all, your ego is involved here.
So if you own a Glock, it's Glock Love, and everybody else is crazy.
And if you've chosen something else, why, you just hate those Glocks and the stupid people who bought them.

Ain't psychology simple?


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## rex

Steve is being nice compared to the other thread,he got me going :mrgreen: He's right though,it's a pshycological (or testosterone) thing.If you notice our feminine gender don't think this way and learn to shoot much more easily.

I have to say it one more time if you believe it or not,Glock is a good piece if you like it.I don't like the gun as a whole,but it works.While I don't like the gun,it's the company that I can't stand.Diversity is good though,I own Harleys,you have Triumphs.There's more than one way to skin a cat,in the end we can end up with the same outcome but get there different ways.


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## jdw68

I don't know if psychology is quit that simple. I have purchased pistols before and just didn't like them after I had shot them several times, so I traded them in for something else. If I really like a pistol, then I keep it and there are reasons why I like that pistol. I love the Glock pistol for numerous reasons, but wouldn't expect others to feel the same way. There are many choices so we can all grab the one we want.


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## Easy_CZ

It's easy to bash Glocks because all Glocks are very similar to one another. They differ in size, capacity and caliber, but the guns share the same basic design and features. 

Sig, S&W, Ruger, etc. make all kinds and varieties of handguns, each with different features to appeal to a different segment of the gun-consuming market. 

Glock does not make a 1911. Glock does not make a revolver. Glock makes Glocks. 

So, it's easy to say "Glocks suck!" A Glock is a Glock is a Glock.


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## denner

Great pistol, it might not be your cup of tea, but a great firearm. Any pistol that is reliable as a Glock, and is carried by more law enforcement can't be bad.


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## usmcj

denner said:


> Great pistol, it might not be your cup of tea, but a great firearm. Any pistol that is reliable as a Glock, and is carried by more law enforcement can't be bad.


Dealing with a few law enforcement agencies, leads me to the "lowest bid" reasoning. :roll:

I'm not a Glock fan, but that's just me. If there were only one perfect gun we'd all own it, and there would be no choices. :smt1099


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## goNYG

Maybe it's just me but I don't detect rampant "hate" towards Glocks. What I do detect is indifference or mere lack of preference, which is often interpreted by hard core enthusiasts as hate. In the mind of rabid fanboys (and fangirls), when someone else fails to see the brilliance and genius that they themselves see, they conclude it can only be hate motivating the other. Happens everywhere as has been pointed out. Happened big time in 2008 regarding a certain elected official...


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## usmcj

... as I posted up-thread....



> Hating an inanimate object is pretty much an exercise in futility. One gains nothing from it.


It's really tough to overcome personal preference. :smt083 ... :smt1099


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## yogiboobooranger

Someone pointed out the grip angle on a Glock as being the reason for the love/hate relationship. I was one of those haters for that very reason, grip angle. But many years later, I am a Glock Lover of sorts, Actually I love all guns as long as they go bang when needed. I just recently got into Glocks, and now they are my primary concealed weapon of choice.


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## Shipwreck

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Well, jeeze, if God tells us that Glocks aren't the right ones, I guess we ought to listen. Right?


Sho nuff!


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## jdw68

Shipwreck said:


> Sho nuff!


But, what if I like the Beretta 92 fs and the Glock? Does that make me a bad person? :smt083


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## Steve M1911A1

Ah, the wonders of PhotoShop!

Obviously, God uses that program on his Apple Computer, to manipulate church and synagogue signs.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

kaBOOM!


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## Shipwreck

jdw68 said:


> But, what if I like the Beretta 92 fs and the Glock? Does that make me a bad person? :smt083


'Fraid so :smt082


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## droptrd

When people say they hate a gun - especially something as popular as glock - i think its rediculous. I prefer glocks but i like my berettas and xd and m&p too. none of them suck. If you dont like one of them as much as another, thats cool. But to say you HATE one? Get off the internet koolaid dude and get outside.


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## kerrycork

For a long time I looked at Glocks ans decided I don't the looks of it. I much perferr blued steel and wood. I shot my friends one day and found it to be easy to shoot , good grip and good accuracy, it was nice to handle. Aweek later in the local gun shop I was looking at a mod.19, Now it's mine and listed among my favorites to carry. How could I have been so wrong for so long. Not very much for pretty but pretty much for good.


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## Steve M1911A1

kerrycork said:


> ...I shot my friends one day and found it to be easy...


Well, OK-but next time, shoot _enemies_ instead. It's much easier. :anim_lol: :smt083


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Well, OK-but next time, shoot _enemies_ instead. It's much easier. :anim_lol: :smt083


not exactly, enemies EXPECT you to shoot them, they avoid you.... friends, not so much.... easier targets


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## DanP_from_AZ

I've had a dog in this hunt before. I "almost" managed to avoid doing this again.

First, as a retired mechanical engineer, there is really nothing wrong with Glocks from a functional standpoint.
Well, maybe the Glock's ability to increase E.R. trips by L.E.O.'s popping themselves in the foot, calf, or thigh is a negative.

But, really, are we put on this Earth to select our personal possessions based on mere functionality ? I think not.

1. There is a reason I don't care about my fridge, my stove, or my clothes washer. They cool, they heat, and they clean. All I ask.

2. There is a reason I'm single, and have three cars in my garage. Do I need three. No. 
Is any one of them a Dodge Neon ? Or, God Forgive me for mentioning it, a Prius Pussy Wagon ? No. HELL NO !

A '99 Jeep Cherokee with WAY too much real 4wd stuff, a 2004 Vette Z06 Z16, and a '71 Camaro Z28 "original, unrestored".

If you have to figure out whether Glocks reside behind Door 1 or Door 2 above, then you are simply beyond redemption. Sorry. :smt1099


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## Steve M1911A1

All this gun talk, and philosophy too!

Dang, we're gettin' esoteric 'round here!

Ya know... If you were to ask me to choose between the lady and the tiger, well, some days I think I'd go with the tiger.
Anyway, I'll take what's behind Door #2...


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Steve M1911A1 said:


> All this gun talk, and philosophy too!
> 
> Dang, we're gettin' esoteric 'round here!....


some of us really are warrior monks...


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## Steve M1911A1

...Um, or, maybe sometimes, monk_ey_s. :yawinkle:


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## wicastawakan

Pretty well explained in the above post. I hear a lot more people praising the Glock than hating it. Americans /humans enjoy being against anything & especially the establishment. Goes with the turf. They are not the most beautiful weapon ever made but if you you want a weapon that goes bang every time you pull the trigger there is no need to go further to find your solution. I also think their shape makes them a tad tough to cc well. When I get a gun I like, it is hard to argue with as I shoot it so much I can stack 'em in there. If having a reliable gun is a bias, let 'em hate.


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## SouthernBoy

I posted my thoughts on page 1 of this thread but will add a few here, if you folks don't mind.

You best friend in taking any decision is to exercise the clients. In other words, go to a range and shoot them. Preferably with a friend who owns guns which you are considering. Next best thing is renting at the range if that is an option.

We can look at the history and reputation of given defensive handguns and glean a measure of factual data as to the trustworthiness of your selection. And this is a very good thing to do. The next thing is to examine the guns very carefully, looking at things that many folks overlook or don't thing about when making a purchase.

How hard is it to "rack" the slide? How hard is it to release the slide stop? How hard is it to load the magazines (compare the Glock to the M&P in 9mm and you'll know what I mean with this one)? What about the shape of the trigger guard? How hard is it to detail strip? Are replacement parts readily available and can you install them yourself? What is the shape, width, and angle of the feed ramp? Is the magazine release easy to use yet secure from accidental activation? Does the bore axis height work for you? Are the sights good (can you obtain a sight acquisition and a sight picture reasonably quick)? How hard is the gun going to be to clean?

There are a host of other questions and points to consider when deciding upon a defensive firearm, but all of this pales when weighed against the one primary and major concern: does it go bang when it is suppose to? The loudest sound in the world in an extreme encounter is "click". Reliability is paramount and supersedes all other considerations.


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## jm38

I've owned the 19 and 17 glocks, same gun different barrel and slide. Only thing I didn't like was the trigger, could have fixed it for a round $100. Everything about a glock is "drop in" so you really don't need a smith to repair one if you can get the parts your need. I have also owned a couple of Rugers, a couple of CZ's a Beretta. a Stoeger, a couple of Smiths and now carrying a FNP. I have never owned nor will ever own a 1911 design. Its not a hate thing it just gets to be I don't like the way they fit my hand. I have fired the Colt, the Colt Delta Elite 10, the Desert Eagle 50 and 45, they are all execelent weapons but they don't fit and I really (with so many models on the market get tired of picking up a gun magazi8ne and seeing a picture of the latest 1911 custom?????????
So there you have another dislike.


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## SouthernBoy

With two simple mods, you can make a significant improvement to the Glock trigger that should only run you around $25 to $30. A quality 3.5 connector (I like the Glock one, part #00135) and a 6 pound trigger spring (I like the one from GlockParts.com). I'm speaking about the gen3 models, BTW.

Opinion coming.

The Smith and Wesson M&P series in their standard size has one of the best feeling grips on the market. This makes the gun a natural pointer and very shooter-friendly. Glocks do take a little more getting used to but this is a relatively easy process and the return is a superb defensive arm for your daily carry and home SD gun.


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## DanP_from_AZ

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> some of us really are warrior monks...





Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Um, or, maybe sometimes, monk_ey_s. :yawinkle:


Thanks you guys, now I have to try and evaluate which is my true niche in life.

Would it help if I stopped having a banana for breakfast ? :mrgreen:

And back to "the Glock". I have NOTHING against Glocks, or "Glock folks".
They are great weapons. Just not my personal cup of tea.

I don't own any 1911s either. But, Holy Crap, those 1911 "Snobs" are just plain obnoxious.
Who will be the first to start a thread to rag on those worshipers at the foot of the Shrine of John Moses Browning ? :smt1099

_A snob believes that some people (*all weapons*) are inherently inferior to him or her (*1911s*) for any one of a variety of reasons,
including real or supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, class, taste, beauty, nationality, et cetera.
Often the form of snobbery reflects the snob's personal attributes. For example, a common snobbery of the
affluent (*Browning worshipers*) is the belief that wealth (*ownership of 1911s*) is either the cause or result of superiority, or both._


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## jlb070

After nearly 40 years of raising purebred livestock, I learned somebody always hates something. Just go with what you like and admire. Somebody will agree!


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## cwl1862

post deleted


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## cwl1862

recoilguy said:


> This is a prime example of what FNISHR mentioned when he referenced motorcycle world brand bashing. You could substitute Harley in the place of Glock and and Honda or Victory or Kawasaki in the place of Ruger and you would have 100's of identical posts on motorcycle boards. When people don't own a single (insert brand here) and most likely never will, I have a very hard time taking their opinion about them with any degree of credibility. It does rub some folks the wrong way when someone says their brand is superior. To have your retort be my brand is Superior and I wouldn't own your brand I fail to discern the difference in the two. Oh well like he also said the more experianced leave each to their own.
> 
> In the motorcycle world I have a saying that goes.................it's that you ride.
> 
> With guns I say.....................Its that you shoot!
> 
> Neither is it a matter of what.
> 
> RCG


I beg to differ with you, I was not "brand bashing" at all. What you've done friend is cherry picked one comment from my entire post, taken it out of context and twisted it into something is was not. I gave credit where credit was due, Glock's are reliable and tough weapons, but also fugley, thats my opinion YMMV, however my preference is for something other than Glock, as I do not like/care for them, this opinion is based on personal experience with that platform. I have shot several exalmples of Glock's of all generations, in all calibers, and all sizes, and haven't found one to my likeing yet. So I don't own one and until something changes with their design I probably never will own one. They're fine weapons, but just not for me. That is not brand bashing my friend, its called expressing an opinion and a matter of personal preference & I never claimed my brand was any better than anybody elses. Again expressing an OPINION and a PREFERENCE nothing more. Why should I buy something that I don't care for? I need'nt purchase or own a product that I have tried to form an opinion on said product. As a matter of fact you missed the point all together. My point was all of the "glockofiles" who disparage any thing that isn't a glock "brand bashing" or for that matter not a 1911. 
Personally I could give a rats a$$ what firearm you or anyone carries. Be it a Hipoint, Bersa, SIG, Beretta, Kimber, Colt, Glock, CZ or a Smith & Wesson. If thats what you can afford and it works for you, more power to ya, but don't look down your nose at my SIG, Ruger, or Smith & Wesson etc. because it isn't a wonderglock. I don't look down my nose at their or your choice of weapon, I admire the fact that they are carrying at all, exercising their god given rights, be it a glock or a slingshot. I could care less.


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## judgecrater

SouthernBoy said:


> I posted my thoughts on page 1 of this thread but will add a few here, if you folks don't mind.
> 
> You best friend in taking any decision is to exercise the clients. In other words, go to a range and shoot them. Preferably with a friend who owns guns which you are considering. Next best thing is renting at the range if that is an option.
> 
> How hard is it to "rack" the slide? How hard is it to release the slide stop? How hard is it to load the magazines (compare the Glock to the M&P in 9mm and you'll know what I mean with this one)? What about the shape of the trigger guard? How hard is it to detail strip? Are replacement parts readily available and can you install them yourself? What is the shape, width, and angle of the feed ramp? Is the magazine release easy to use yet secure from accidental activation? Does the bore axis height work for you? Are the sights good (can you obtain a sight acquisition and a sight picture reasonably quick)? How hard is the gun going to be to clean?
> 
> There are a host of other questions and points to consider when deciding upon a defensive firearm, but all of this pales when weighed against the one primary and major concern: does it go bang when it is suppose to? The loudest sound in the world in an extreme encounter is "click". Reliability is paramount and supersedes all other considerations.


I go along with all you thoughts. One of Glock's beauties is its simplicity of design.

Folks say they hate the way it feels, or grip angle, etc. I think they would be surprised that if they really tried the Glock, it just might out shoot their present favorite pistol but that would be letting the results interfere with their emotions. Sort of like the way some evaluate presidential candidates.


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## rex

judgecrater said:


> I go along with all you thoughts. One of Glock's beauties is its simplicity of design.
> 
> Folks say they hate the way it feels, or grip angle, etc. I think they would be surprised that if they really tried the Glock, it just might out shoot their present favorite pistol but that would be letting the results interfere with their emotions. Sort of like the way some evaluate presidential candidates.


That makes no sense,what is really try?I've shot a few Glocks,I don't like the feel,the sights are cheap,the trigger sucks,and it isn't a safe design.Has absolutely nothing to do with my emotions,I just don't like them,along with some other guns,plain and simple.Most of them are reliable,I won't take that away from them,but I don't think they are for a novice shooter as they were intended.Not all of the Glock discharges were NDs,some were true ADs due to the design.


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## berettabone

A large metropolitan city near me, just purchased 631 Glock's for use in the sheriff's dept. They got them for $235 a piece. In talking with a few sheriffs, they told me that Glocks are not their personal preference, it is what they are issued...and if they had a choice, Glock would be way down on their list of preferred firearm. In hearing this, I would imagine that many LEO's would prefer carrying something else.......so, to all who think that Glock's are the holy grail of handguns, I may suggest that they carry them because they have to, not because they want to.


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## rex

I agree.I know some that do love them,and some as you said.There has also been quite a few departments getting rid of Glocks over the last few years.

I lost the document and article when my computer crashed so I'm relying on memory.

2-3 years ago a Canadian (I think) police department was getting rid of their Glocks because of problems,I believe one was the normal AD/NDs, and published it in a police newsletter or magazine.Glock got wind of it and threatened to sue them.Lo and behold 2 days later you couldn't find a mention of it anywhere,even the source I discovered it at had deleted everything pertaining to it.I've heard this isn't the first time Glock has tried to sue for slander,and is just another reason I don't think much of the company.

Here's an AD I read about,but not knowing Glock's internals I'm not sure how this happened.A Deputy was getting out of his cruiser and the butt smacked the steering wheel,somehow booting one through the floor,I don't think he took a hit but can't recall.When the armorer looked at it there was a piece of frame broke off,which was a limited problem on a batch,and jambed in there somehow.Their conclusion was that the smack torqued the grip and the way the piece was located it somehow tripped the striker.Glocks response was he pulled the trigger,only way it could go off.How can he do that in a duty holster?Like I said,I don't know Glocks inside,so I don't know if the striker is loaded enough to set off a primer at that spot or how to trip it from there.This one I'm not sure about.


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## dondavis3

I used to actually like Glocks.

I've owned a 17 and a 19 and a 26.

Until last week I'd traded all of the off for M&P's and XDm's

Why??

Glock had the world by the nose - because of cost, not quality, they swept through the law enforcement community.

I've heard numbers as high a 65% of all law enforcement carried a Glock at one time.

Now not so.

Through all of Glocks Generations .. they did not correct their short comings and stay abreast of the market place..

IMHO they got lazy

Market changes like:

Grip angle
decent backstrap system
decent slide serrations/grippiness. 
Full ambidextrous .
Removable backstraps.
Did I mention Grip angle - oh ya I did
Texturing that doesn't rip skin off (the RTF).
Stainless steel slide
Stainless Steel guide rods
Grip Safety
Loaded chamber indicator
Cocked striker indicator
Don't have to pull trigger to take down
and many more

While I or you may not want all of these - some of them are certainly worth having.

The Glock Gen 4 came out and had few of them.

Go look at unbiased 3rd party video's from different business' about polymer guns, and you'll find lot's of negativeness on Glock vs. ???

Glock USA told Glock Austria YEARS ago (when the P99 came out, and the P2000) this should be upgraded on the Glocks as soon as they could.

Glock Austria, insisted they knew better.

After they lost enough $$$$ over the M&P, XDm and other polymer guns which had these features suddenly the Glock Perfection became Glock Perfection version 4.0.

I own a Glock, and have for a dozen years.

That doesn't mean the company always knows what it's doing.

S&W & XDm surpassed them because they gave customers more of what they wanted in a reliable package without costing $700.

That's my opinion .... might not be correct.

By the way I just bought this gun 2 weeks ago.

Glock 34










I've been changing sights, adding extended slide stops, working on the trigger etc. , etc.

I'm going to compete with it this weekend.

We'll see how it goes.

JMHO

:smt1099


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## mrcrzy

purchased a G17 Gen4 3 weeks ago and a used G19 love both and previously purchased, and currently own Sig Sauer P226 9mm and .40, H&K USP COMP .45, Kimber Ultra Carry .45, Colt 1911 .38 Super, Walther PPK/S, Walther P22, Taurus 44 mag. So, I have no problem extending my firing horizions!


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## HK Dan

goNYG said:


> Maybe it's just me but I don't detect rampant "hate" towards Glocks.


Then, Sir, you are not paying attnetion.

I was a hater. I was convinced that criminals used GLOCK and that they were a cheap, trash gun. All this without ever having shot one or handled one, mind you. So, when my primary competition gun broke atrigger bar and had to go back to the factory, I needed another gun that I wouldn't get attached to. "Pick one you know you'll hate, then when Bessie gets back you can sell it and not feel bad" I said to myself. I bought a GLOCK 22. I took it to the range the first time, and Holy Shinola was it sweet. accurate, soft shooting, fast follow ups, decent mag drops--the whole package. I switched and made it my primary compeition/carry gun. Fan boy? Yeah, maybe, if your talking about a fan of peformance.


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## rex

I don't get why people put stickers on their vehicle advertising guns,might as well invite them home to rob you.


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## Overkill0084

It's not hate. It's indifference. I find Glocks about as interesting as a $12 Wal-mart coffee pot. To me they are an appliance for shooting, and not that interesting an appliance at that. That's not saying that they aren't good at their intended purpose. Reliable, practical? Sure. So is that $12 coffee pot. 
To each their own.


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## Todd

Overkill0084 said:


> It's not hate. It's indifference. I find Glocks about as interesting as a $12 Wal-mart coffee pot.


:smt116 That's a perfect analogy.


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## Gaelicredneck

I have nothing against glocks, xd's or any polymer gun for that matter. I respect glocks for what they are and what they are capable of doing. That being said I simply don't like striker fired guns and I don't like the grip angle on glocks. I tend to prefer hammer fired guns with an all metal body


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## tacman605

When Glock first hit the market years ago they changed the way people looked at handguns. From the materials used in the frame to the trigger it went against everything that everyone knew in regards to firearms.

Yep in the beginning there were ND's in many departments however upon researching the incidents they found there was absolutely nothing wrong with the guns but it came down to a training issue. The following was taken from the book Glock: The Rise of America's Gun. (Paraphrased)



> The Washington D.C Metro P.D. switched to the Glock in 1989 and was supported by officers and their FOP.
> 
> Almost immediately they began to shoot themselves and each other. In the decade after adopting the pistol there were more than 120 accidental discharges which resulted in 19 serious officer injuries. Police mistakenly wounded nine DC citizens and killed one. This resulted in city government paying out millions in damages however they did not blame the guns. After investigating the incidents they found it related back to three factors.
> 
> The department, responding to turnover and rising crime, hired 1500 new officers in just 18 months. It then failed to train many of the rookies. In many cases the rookies only received three days range time instead of the normal ten. They simply rushed them through to meet the numbers they needed. The final factor is that they issued the easy to fire Glock in the hands of every one of the untrained officers without further thought.
> The pistol is an excellent first gun as it is simple and light, but without the training to go with it a new shooter is probably more likely to make a dangerous mistake with it as compared to other firearms.


It comes down to you simply have to know what you are doing. The Glock is a great gun but it is not as forgiving as other types. There is no safety to disengage, no hammer to look at to see if it is cocked it is a fighting pistol, point and shoot and may not be for everyone or anyone who does not want to train with it.

When I am home I ride my Harley's. I cannot tell you how many times I have been out somewhere and am approached by them and have them say "Yeah I have been riding dirt bikes, scooters, midsize bikes or whatever" and then state they are going to get of have bought an 850 pound touring bike but don't understand why they have trouble with riding slowly. You simply can't hop on that size of bike and expect to be able to handle it without knowing what you are doing.

Everyone must remember the gun is a tool and you are the craftsman that makes it work. A particular quote comes to mind from Col. Cooper "Just because you own a guitar does not make you a musician". I have been carrying a gun professionally in one way shape or form for over 30 years and in the last six years I have been carrying a variety of firearms in the war zones of the world where I am employed so I am basing my next comment on that experience. Glocks work when other weapons won't.
Many people like the looks of a gun and that is why they bought it. The Glock is not a thing of beauty unless you are looking at it from a purely fighting aspect then it is beautiful.

They are simple, direct and to the point. Insert a mag, chamber a round, holster and leave the damn thing alone until you need to shoot something. It is simple as that. There are very, very few ND/AD's due to mechanical failure of a firearm unless someone has attempted to be a home gunsmith and modify the gun from it's original version.
In regards to the post about the officer and the ND with his Glock I am not sure if this is the same one but this type of situation was also addressed in the book.



> In November 1990 and officer with the Port Huron MI. PD was in his patrol car when her removed the gun from its holster. (Goes back to leave the damn thing alone until you are ready to use it but anyway...) as he did so the gun discharged shooting him in the foot. The following year he sued the gunmaker alleging the unusual "trigger safety" was inherently dangerous.


 I have never heard of a Glock discharging while in the holster so if anyone has a link to something I would appreciate it.

There is another reason some do not like the Glock. For years people became frustrated with the fact there was simply nothing you could do to them. Can't change grip panels, the trigger was fine for the job intended and except for changing out the sights, which I agree stock Glock sights, the adjustable ones anyway, suck and need to be changed there was not a lot you could do. Only in the last couple of years have people began Duracoating, stippling grips, cutting frames and so on but by nature we want to change things to fit our personal taste. Keep in mind though I said personal it has nothing to do with function.

The majority of SF troopers I am attached to carry a Glock 19. It is light, good ammo capacity, shoots well and most of all it will function when they need it to. There are well made 1911's here but they are not carried. They can be finicky and don't carry a lot of ammo for there size. Other guns such as the Ruger, Bersa, CZ's and so on while fine for concealed carry and the amount of shooting most folks do they simply do not hold up to the type of abuse that handguns are subjected to.

For those that state they prefer the M&P's, XD's or other polymer framed striker fired pistols. Where do you think they came from? One of the first attempts by S&W to enter the polymer market was the original Sigma's. It turned into an absolute marketing disaster. If you had one that worked great cherish it as most did not. They were sold to officers at rock bottom prices simply to get into the market. Thankfully changes came about and I guess they are decent guns nowadays but I have not shot them in years. I own several M&P's and they also are great guns but they are all the same basic concept that Glock brought to the market years ago with simply things added to them.

Finally comments have been made that well I can get this cheaper and it has this or that and agencies go with the lowest bidder and so on. Many don't realize but Glock has two major divisions. Law Enforcement and Commercial. Commercial prices for a Glock are $550 to $650 range. LE prices for a standard gun have not changed in years, $398.20. Anyone who is a LE Officer, EMT, Fireman, Military (Active or Retired), National Guard or can show that they can meet the criteria of being a first responder can purchase at these prices from LE distributors. No other company can or will match that.

I currently carry a Glock 19 with an Olive Drab frame with an M-3 light attached. It is the exact same setup that I have a home and train with, the only difference being the gun that I have here is not stippled. Again I look at a firearm as a tool not a piece of art and main criteria being that it works every single time when I need it and none of them have ever let me down.


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## SMann

dondavis3 said:


> Grip angle*-I like it*
> decent backstrap system*-fits my hand fine as is*
> decent slide serrations/grippiness. *I can rack my slide just fine*
> Full ambidextrous .*I'm right handed*
> Removable backstraps.*-fits my hand fine as is*
> Did I mention Grip angle - oh ya I did*-I like it*
> Texturing that doesn't rip skin off (the RTF).*the texturing doesn't slip or rip for me*
> Stainless steel slide*-my slide shows no signs of corrosion*
> Stainless Steel guide rods*-my guide rod works just fine*
> Grip Safety*-a worthless feature that just adds more parts that can fail in my opinion*
> Loaded chamber indicator*-a worthless feature that just adds more parts that can fail in my opinion*
> Cocked striker indicator*-a worthless feature that just adds more parts that can fail in my opinion*
> Don't have to pull trigger to take down*-not sure why that's a problem for those that can clear their weapon properly*
> and many more*-uh, ok*


My hammer doesn't need to be pretty or have fancy features as long as I can swing it well and it will reliably drive a nail. If Glock keeps chasing the market, I will never own a Glock newer than my Gen 3. I prefer a company that builds tools that appeal to professionals, not the general population.


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## tacman605

SMann. I agree. The Gen 3 fits me fine. Down the road I may try a Gen 4 just for fun but the changing backstrap issue is not a big deal to me. Decent sights, some stippling and lots of mags and I am good to go.


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## rex

Tacman

The officer I mentioned was in lower Canada as I recall.Looked like an official report and said the gun smacked the steering wheel and went off,they found a piece of rail inside somewhere and torquing the grip caused it.All info of this disappeared within days of me seeing it,and my copy is sitting inside a toasted computer.Sounds out there,but I don't have a Glock to tear into to see what could or couldn't be.The few 9s I shot flexed more than my HK 45 though.

"When Glock first hit the market years ago they changed the way people looked at handguns. From the materials used in the frame to the trigger it went against everything that everyone knew in regards to firearms."

I disagree on this other than marketing and timing were what changed the way people saw it.Everything about the Glock had been done previously by at least 15 years,except the trigger.This is the flaw to me.As you said,there isn't a safety,so what's the reason for putting a useless bar in the trigger?While there is a long pull,it isn't that long and it's light,it ain't no revolver with a decent trigger job.I've never heard of more NDs out of any gun throughout it's life,there ia a flaw.I agree 100% with you about training,but I can't believe everyone all of a sudden got stupid in 1986 or whatever.I wouldn't have a big problem carrying that type trigger,but I think HK has a better setup.

Just my view on them,but nobody has changed my view much on them since they hit the market here.

Thank you for saying it's not a beginner's gun basically,I always said it was intended for the opposite of original intent.The NDs cover a wide range of people's training and familiarity with it,not a gun for a newb.


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## tacman605

Rex who made a polymer framed, striker fired pistol 15 years before Glock? I have not been able to find any. Please let me know.

In the 80's and before LE had transitioned from revolvers to DA Autos with their long DA first shot and hammer drop safeties then to Glocks that did not have a long heavy trigger pull and no external safety. There are safeties on Glock handguns they are simply not manually operated safeties except for the trigger bar.

Without training no gun is a beginners gun it is just some or more forgiving to mistakes. HK's variant 7 or whatever it is has a DAO trigger, safety and an extra strength rubber band to keep it from being fired but it would be difficult for a beginner to shoot it well simply because of the trigger. Glocks do exactly what they are supposed to do, point at target, pull the trigger the thing people have to realize is that they cannot be handled as casually as other firearms.


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## rex

HK was the first to make a polymer framed pistol 15 years before the Glock,the VP70.They also made the P7 series which were a better designed striker system,but striker guns were already out before that.The only thing Glock did was put the 2 previous designs together.Beretta did the same with a revolver's DA and a semi auto design,2 different systems were incorporated into 1.I say Beretta because they''re the first DA/SA that I recall,but they may not have been the first to do it.

I understand what you're saying about the safeties,we think alike there.All guns have some sort of disconnect safety to prevent burst fire and firing out of battery,and the firing pin safety only comes into play for dropping the gun,everything on top of that is what is seen as a user safety.Why put that safety in the trigger is completely beyond me,it makes it null and void.A child finds the gun,the safety is useless,touch the trigger the safety is useless,catch the edge of a collapsed holster the the safety is useless.The collapsed holster happened to a member of 1911Forum a few years ago reholstering his Glock,and he posted pictures and I believe the new drainhole in his floorboard.

I agree entirely with you on the training,some people just don't train the trigger finger the way it should be and that is the cause of the majority of NDs.Glock designed the gun for the masses,meaning the untrained and idiots.We both agree the gun is not great for that market.Where I think Glock failed is going with too short a stroke and too light on the trigger,that's the exact reason for the new phenomena of Glock leg.I'm sure it's happening with M&Ps and XDs but Glock gets the most attention for it since they came up with the design.This is a gun designed for people that know how to handle a gun.I've had the safety knocked off on my 1911s at times over the years,I didn't freak,it's basically now a Glock with a nicer trigger.What can happen?Nothing if you don't touch the damn trigger.There's something about the Glock that causes a false sense of security that get people in trouble,maybe the term safe action,I don't know.While I agree 99% of the blame falls on the operator,Glock is partly responsible for pushing (marketing) a gun that goes bang so easily into the hands of inexperienced people.When they came out I said this is going to be dangerous in alot of people's hands,and I'll be damned if it didn't happen.Then there was the NY trigger to cure idiots from endangering everyone.That was pure brilliance because these guys have a hard time hitting a target as is,now lets crank up the trigger weight.Why alot of cops don't learn the one tool that will keep them alive at the worst moment in your life is beyond me.

HK's DAO is rude,like alot of others,but the LEM eliminates that old style system and works just like the Glock in principle.The hammer is 2 pieces,the internal stays cocked and the external follows the slide.When you pull the trigger you're only cocking the external under light spring pressure and moving the FPB out of the way.If something happens you have second strike capability at the harder DAO pull.Tactically you clear on a dud,but in the unlikely event something happens to the sear,spring,or hammer hook,or what would be equivolent to trapping a striker,you can still use the gun.The reset is more than a Glock,but it's a pretty good high 4lb trigger.I may set mine up with one,but I've always carried C&L so I'm in no hurry when I have more important things to worry about.

I'm not ragging you or anything like that because there's just too many things I don't like about the design,but I won't say they aren't a good gun if you like the design.I forgot to say it earlier,thank you for your service and stay safe man.


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## rex

Oops,it double posted.


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## tacman605

Ah yes you are correct. I owned a VP70 for a very short time, god what a trigger, and also had the P7. If I remember right once the squeeze cocker was depressed the factory trigger pull was like 2.5 pounds or something way to light but it shot very well. It did get hot around the gas piston though.
The P7 though had the same "generally speaking" design as the Glock in that unless the squeeze cocker was depressed fully the gun would not fire. Same principal with the Glock unless the trigger bar is depressed the gun will not fire.

I don't think you are ragging at all some like one gun some like others. The simplicity of a weapon like this, Glock, M&P, XD, or whatever can be a blessing and a curse. Under a stress type situation you want simple but you have to train for that situation. Yep folks have had ND/AD's while drawing/reholstering with Glocks, 1911's and several others the first thing most did was blame the holster or the gun. Serpa holsters are the main ones. Holster design has changed a lot over the years with more rigid kydex being used instead of nylon or soft leather.

I also found that the installation of a New York trigger on the Glock gave a more consistent "revolver like" trigger pull which could/would lead to less incidents of mistakes. On the Glock 18 we ran the standard trigger would lead to uncontrollable bursts of 4 or 5 rounds but after installing the NY trigger you could easily fire1-2-3 round bursts at will.

I have owned and shot several HK long guns but have only shot a few of their handguns, and owned even less. Our local SO had the DAO variant that I spoke of and except for a keylock or combination code to get the gun to fire I don't know how they could have made a more non user friendly gun but to each his own. They make great products they simply just never flipped my cookie.


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## Nanuk

rex said:


> A child finds the gun,the safety is useless,touch the trigger the safety is useless,catch the edge of a collapsed holster the the safety is useless.The collapsed holster happened to a member of 1911Forum a few years ago reholstering his Glock,and he posted pictures and I believe the new drainhole in his floorboard.
> 
> While I agree 99% of the blame falls on the operator,Glock is partly responsible for pushing (marketing) a gun that goes bang so easily into the hands of inexperienced people.
> 
> HK's DAO is rude,like alot of others,but the LEM eliminates that old style system and works just like the Glock in principle.


Rex,

You cannot really expect the design of a firearm to take into account basic safety, storage and safe gun handling skills concerns anymore than you can expect them to protect you from using a faulty, worn out holster. You must run the gun, not the other way around.

H&K's are great guns. My last duty gun was a P2000 and I am an H&K armorer. I had 15,000 rounds through my H&K, not one failure of any kind. I shoot a Glock better, it holds one more round, it is smaller, lighter and I can actually get parts if I need any.

The rational that the LEM in principal operates like a Glock means it operates like a double action revolver too.


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## Reddog1

Because, for me, Glocks are ugly and don't fit the hand as comfortably as many other hanguns. Don't believe anyone said Glocks don't shoot properly. They do.


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## Todd

rex said:


> I agree entirely with you on the training, some people just don't train the trigger finger the way it should be and that is the cause of the majority of NDs.


I read that line and immediately thought of my mother's husband. Hand the guy a gun and his finger goes right to the trigger, like Rosie O'Donnell towards an all-you-can-eat buffet. And then he will sweep you a few times for good measure. A Glock decidedly would NOT be the gun for him!


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## rex

That was funny Todd,but ain't it the truth.With the handgun frenzy over the last years,the mall ninjas and idiots have multiplied like rabbits.

Nanuk,yes,technically both the Glock and HK LEM are a modified DA like a revolver.I see them as a crappy SA but they really are DA.I see what you're saying about the safety,etc,and agree.What gets me is that Glock made and marketed this for the uneducated masses,shall we say.As Todd gives a fine example of,putting a safety in the trigger is just stupid and a useless part.I see no situation it could prove useful,a collapsed holster defeated it,so a finger,stick,anything makes it null and void.I'm thinking that block gives people a false sense of security,they see it there but don't realize just how easy it is to override.If they just left it off I think it may be a little different,but who's to say.The P7 was cool,pull that trigger all you want,unless you deliberately squeeze the grip it's safe.It wasn't anything that you had to struggle with,but you had to intentionally use a firing grip to operate it.Just my view on it.


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## Nanuk

I am of the camp that training overcomes any perceived lack of safety.

When Tex shot himself and proclaimed it on you-tube it was blamed on the Serpa holster, not the 1911 when in reality it was his lack of training.

When a guy with a worn out leather holster shoots the gun while fidgeting with it, it is blamed on the Glock.

A gun does no go bang without hitting the bang switch. If your gear is unserviceable or you lack the proper attention to safely holster the gun, it is not the fault of the gun. How many safeties are needed on a handgun?



> What gets me is that Glock made and marketed this for the uneducated masses,shall we say


Gunny & Glock - Wrong Diner - Extended Version - YouTube

The P7 was actually an inferior design if you intended to do any high volume shooting, due to the gas being vented into the frame of the gun.

Ya I guess they do.


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## rex

It wasn't an inferior design,it was well thought out for it's purpose,LE.I;ve known people to shoot them in matches and do very well with them,but you need time between stages because 50 rounds are about it at one time.I agree with you guys on the training deal,but the fact remains that no gun I know of in the last century has had so many NDs in such a short timeframe.Yes,it's keeping the finger off the trigger,but how many DA revolvers go off?It's a design flaw,the original 1911 design would be in the same boat if it wasn't changed,plain and simple.While the 1911 has a shorter takeup,I've seen nastier pulls than a Glock's.Using that comparison which puts the 2 triggers in a similar situation for a discharge,would you carry a 1911 condition 0?I have,but the gun doesn't live in that mode.


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## Nanuk

The original 1911 design did not have a thumb safety, JMB thought it unnecessary, the Army wanted it.

My bad it was the grip safety.


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## Nanuk

Well, I saw something today at qualifications. A Glock 27 RSA broke and rendered the gun inoperable.

:smt089 Who da thunk it?


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## rex

Forgive my ignorance but what's the RSA?

Actually you were correct on the 1911,there was no thumb safety on the original design.I can't recall if JMB or the military changed that though.


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## LefteeTris

rex said:


> Forgive my ignorance but what's the RSA?
> 
> Actually you were correct on the 1911,there was no thumb safety on the original design.I can't recall if JMB or the military changed that though.


Recoil spring assembly.


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## rex

Yep,sorry.


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## LePetomane

For me, the Glocks although very functional do not have the visual appeal that certain Berettas or S&W's do. That being said, I have the 26 for my carry gun and I like it a lot. In my line of work I come in contact with a lot of cops. They all carry Glocks.


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## rex

I take it all the cops you come in contact with carry them,because it's not true of a blanket statement.A good portion have no choice and have to carry them,and not all of them like it.Some do,but there are some that have choices and pick something else or spend their own money on something else on an approved list.Glock isn't as popular as they were any more,slowly departments are changing away from them and dealing with the financial problem.Glock is so popular because of their marketing propaganda and the fact they practically give them away to LE.


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## Nanuk

rex said:


> *Glock is so popular because *of their marketing propaganda and the* fact they practically give them away to LE.*


That was one factor in me buying them. I switched over from H&K, because the G is smaller, lighter, carries more rounds, has a robust aftermarket and you can actually get parts should you need them.


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## Amsdorf

LefteeTris said:


> I just don't understand why does everyone hate it?


Not everyone hates them.
Not everyone is a "Glock only" person.

'nuff said.

These kinds of conversations are, in my opinion, just ridiculous.


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## KingVader

I still pretty new to all of this and I do own a Glock and a Ruger, Ive also had the priviledge to shoot nurmerous other handguns and I like them all. I dont think the people who love Glocks should talk about them like they are the king of gunz and if you dont like Glocks dont bash them to other people..Most firearms from what I see are good and will perform, sum a lil better than others, from what Ive been told it ultimately comes down to the shooter and what they prefer.


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