# 60 yr old rookie with first LTC needs handgun advice



## pedro45 (Mar 13, 2014)

Hi folks, nice to meet you all. So I just got my first gun license, joined a club, don't really know jack, but want to buy my first handgun.
Now I've noticed I'm a decent shot with a 22 pistol, but my accuracy isn't very good with higher caliber pistols. So what handguns would you recommend that are good concealed carry, size-wise, have enough stopping power and aren't tool crazy expensive? Thank you so much for any advice you could offer, thanks, pete


----------



## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I would get a S&W Shield 9mm. That is the gun I just bought and as soon as I put night sights on it I will carry it daily for protection. Just use standard pressure rounds and it wont recoil too much.


----------



## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

If you're planning on buying your first handgun, you should try to put your hands on as many handguns as possible and shoot as many as possible. Everyone has different hand shapes, sizes and finds different types of sights easier to use. The best first gun is the one that you can shoot most accurately. Once you find that, then you can start fine tuning your decision based on weight, concealability, caliber, etc.

There are gun shops that rent handguns to try before buying..... Hopefully there are some in your area......

How To Make Sure Your Handgun Fits You - My Gun Culture - A humorous look at guns and shooting

*"So what handguns would you recommend that are good concealed carry, size-wise, have enough stopping power and aren't tool crazy expensive? Thank you so much for any advice you could offer, thanks, pete" *
There is an array of handguns to choose from and I am sure you posts on what weapon to purchase... Most if not all will be good choices but keep in mind the recommendations are coming from personal preference.

With the amount of weapons available there is no one right one for all to carry....

Welcome to the forum and good luck.........


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Welcome to the site!

I'm going to move this to another forum where you will probably get more responses to your question. I'll leave a temporary link in the old location so folks can find it from there, too.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pedro45 said:


> Hi folks, nice to meet you all. So I just got my first gun license, joined a club, don't really know jack, but want to buy my first handgun.
> Now I've noticed I'm a decent shot with a 22 pistol, but my accuracy isn't very good with higher caliber pistols. So what handguns would you recommend that are good concealed carry, size-wise, have enough stopping power and aren't tool crazy expensive? Thank you so much for any advice you could offer, thanks, pete


If you somehow find that out, please let the rest of us know.

BTW.....welcome to the forum.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

If you are a good shot with a mild-recoiling .22 rimfire pistol, then you can be an equally-good shot with something much more powerful.
You already know the fundamentals. You're more than halfway there.

The first thing that you need to know is that learning to shoot a _small_ self-defense pistol is the wrong way to go.
Yes, a small pistol is easy to conceal, and easy to carry concealed.
But a small pistol of powerful caliber is very hard to control, even though you already know how to shoot.
So I suggest that your try-before-you-buy sessions should be limited to medium-size and large-size pistols.

When you shoot a more-powerful pistol, the only change in your basic technique needs to be that you hang onto it harder.
I suggest to any new self-defense shooter that you use a "death grip." Grab it tightly, and hang on with all of your might.
Even so, you still need to "isolate" your trigger finger, so that your "death grip" hold is not influenced by trigger-finger movement, and that your trigger-finger movement is not affected by your "death grip" hold. After that, it's all "sight picture and trigger press," just as with a .22 rimfire.

Start at three yards. When you can maintain a three-inch group, move back (or move the target) to five or seven yards. When you can get back to a three-inch group again, move back to 10 yards. Then 15. Then 20. Then 25. Now stop-you're done.

Next, go up against at least three targets, no closer than seven yards.

Finally, seek a self-defense-shooting teacher who has a good reputation. Do what he or she tells you to do.


----------



## Sgt45 (Jun 8, 2012)

There is no handgun that has absolute stopping power, well maybe the .460 S&W magnum, so whatever gun you can hit with reliably is the way to go. If that is a .22 magnum so be it, I would "suggest" a mid size to full size 9mm as a start and then get good instruction as Steve mentioned. The instruction will do more for you than buying a "perfect" gun that someone else suggests. Learning how to shoot defensively is something that takes practice and a lot of it. Learning the combat mindset is essential, learning when NOT to shoot is priceless, learning what to do after a shooting can keep you out of jail. There is so much more to self-defense than just buying a gun and sticking in you pocket and maybe going to the range every couple of months. There is a great deal of responsibility that goes with our "right" to keep and bear arms.


----------



## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pedro45:
You might want to look at the *CZ 75 Compact* all steel .9mm or the *Canik Stingray* (CZ clone) also all steel. The CZ sells for about $570, the Canik about $370. I have the CZ's, they have excellent ergonomics and mild recoil to me it's almost like shooting a .22 only it's a "nine". Although I've never owned, only handled them, the Canik appears to be a good value for the money. If your recoil sensitive go for the all steel models. I think that the *Canik Stingray* only comes in steel. The *CZ 75 Compact* is all steel, the CZ P-01 and the CZ 75 D PCR Compact have alloy frames, the CZ P-01 has a light rail. The *CZ Compact* and the *Canik Stingray* (CZ clone) although they are compact versions of their full sized pistols with shorter grip frames, the grip is still large enough to get all 3 fingers around it, if that may be an issue for you. In my opinion the CZ Compacts are a nearly perfectly designed pistol. I highlighted the ones to look for if you decide to go that route.


----------



## Bhoffman (Nov 10, 2013)

Got your "1st gun license".

Since we don't know what state you live in;

Is it a license to own?
OR;
Is it a license to carry concealed.

If it is a license to carry concealed, how do you plan to carry?
Outside the waistband in a holster?
Inside the waistband?
Pocket carry?
Ankle holster?

These are things that determine the type of weapon you need.


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

60 years old and never had a handgun, other than a 22 ???

This calls for some serious professional training at an indoor range.

Otherwise you are very likely to shoot yourself.


----------



## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

AdamSmith said:


> 60 years old and never had a handgun, other than a 22 ???
> 
> This calls for some serious professional training at an indoor range.
> 
> Otherwise you are very likely to shoot yourself.


Don't understand where you are coming from by sayin he needs professional training or might shoot himself...... He is 60 not 6 and he also has the plus of actually firing a firearm..... Yes it is a 22 so I do not see him having any problem shooting any of the normal caliber/mm that are available in either a semi automatic or revolver firearm....

Pedro welcome aboard the firearm owners club and happy shooting...........


----------



## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Cait43:


> "Don't understand where you are coming from by sayin he needs professional training or might shoot himself."


I was thinking the same thing, safely handling a .22 is no different than safely handling a weapon of a larger caliber. Pedro45 is simply looking for a handgun of a larger caliber that he can shoot accurately yet have adequate stopping power. His question is directed at those of us who own and shoot guns in that category. There's no need to question his ability to safely handle a firearm. You've given him sound advise on how to go about choosing one. I suggested the all steel Compact CZ 9mm's or their clones as a starting point, because of their excellent ergonomics and relatively mild recoil. Their compact models while not pocket pistols can easily be concealed under a loose shirt in an outside the waistband holster. Based on his comments I couldn't recommend any of the pocket pistols of any serious caliber, or any of the lightweight guns for that matter.


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Steve's advice is good, as usual.

If you can shoot a .22, you can apply the same techniques to larger guns. The noise and anticipation of recoil are what you must learn to handle. Good ear protection and proper gripping techniques and lots of repetitions will eventually solve your mystery. There are dozens of good self defense handguns out there that you will like or dislike when you pick them up the first time. If you can shoot, you will be able to adapt to any of them. Buy a good one with a respected brand name and shoot it a lot. ALWAYS wear ear protection and practice methodically.


----------



## pedro45 (Mar 13, 2014)

Wow, I'm a member of a few forums online, a travel forum and a music forum, and I tell you, you can ask those sites questions but don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. I am blown away at the quick and thoughtful responses I've received here. I'm joining a second club, going to do a lot of shooting and take some lessons as well. An important thing I failed to mention is that I live in Massachusetts, and being brand new to this game I had NO idea that Mass was considered one of the worst states for a gun owner, even more so for a concealed carrier. Additionally, it doesn't even seem easy to find out exactly what the darn rules are! Anyway, I travel a lot and a friend suggested getting a Utah LTC because of the many states they seem to have reciprocity with. Now I don't know if places rent guns in my area, I haven't heard of that, but man that would be great. So again, thanks so much for the advice! I'm taking it to heart and have already researched a number of the guns mentioned here, as well as the great gun videos on Youtube. Cheers


----------



## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pedro45:
Getting the Utah permit is a good idea. Getting out of Massachusetts would be a better one if at all possible. They don't want to make it easy to know what the rules are. It's called entrapment my friend, these rules are specifically designed for political retribution. In other words, how can they criminalize the behavior of their political enemies using the full force of government and the power of law to enforce it? Gun ownership is an easy target. They are able to use emotionalism, fear and the exploitation of mass murder to accomplish this. You either have to get used to it in some states, get out, or be willing to relinquish your civil rights altogether. It's easier to fight on a national level than it is with your own state government. I wish this weren't so but that's the way it is. Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## Bhoffman (Nov 10, 2013)

Being a Mass. Resident poses several problems;

Your Utah permit is NOT valid in Mass.
You need a permit to possess ANY firearm.
You need a Mass. license to carry concealed. Different license from the permit to own,
You can not carry a handgun in your vehicle unless you have a Mass. license to carry concealed.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Bhoffman said:


> Being a Mass. Resident poses several problems;
> 
> Your Utah permit is NOT valid in Mass.
> You need a permit to possess ANY firearm.
> ...


Geez......sounds like you're describing some remote 3rd world country.


----------



## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper:


> "Geez......sounds like you're describing some remote 3rd world country."


Massachusetts is indeed a third world country. Unfortunately it's got plenty of company, enough to make a difference in our presidential elections. For Christ's sake we're all supposed to be Americans isn't every one of us entitled to the same basic human rights? I just can't believe that so many people who live in these states are willing to give up their freedoms so easily, to a bunch of loathsome corrupt politicians.


----------



## pedro45 (Mar 13, 2014)

thanks everyone, seriously, this has been a fount of info; in fact, tomorrow I'm going to visit a number of gun shops, but also practice at the range.


----------



## welshdude (Mar 16, 2014)

AdamSmith said:


> 60 years old and never had a handgun, other than a 22 ???
> 
> This calls for some serious professional training at an indoor range.
> 
> Otherwise you are very likely to shoot yourself.


Sorry, have to take issue w/this post. Obtained my CCP @ age 60 and my first EDC/CCW was a Kel-Tec P11. Had _never _fired a HG in my entire life. 19 practice shots on our makeshift home property range. We live WAY out in the country and have a dry creek in between 2 hills w/about a 50-75 foot vertical drop. It's perfect. Took the class and scored an 82 out of 100 on the target portion. However, there were none off the paper just out of the 'kill zone'. This w/o a micro-second of 'professional training'. There are plenty of videos online regarding proper shooting techniques, so I just watched a few before the range/class. Was the first pull of the trigger on a 9mm HG unnerving? You bet! By the 2nd mag I'd settled down to the point where I was able to keep them all in a 9" circle @ 25 feet.

There were many, many cautions about hand-placement, 'limp-wristing', re-set, follow-up shots, etc. in the videos I watched. The toughest part of having started w/a KT P11 wasn't shooting it was _loading_.  The 'double stack' mags are _tough_ at first. It's all a matter of sense referencing, though. Once I got a feel for how to hold the mag and push each round in it's 2nd nature now.

Now my wife who was 50 at the time w/a military bg scored a 92 w/a borrowed Glock .45! She had the same amount of shooting time w/t P 11 as me. None w/t .45 she borrowed/rented from the instructer. We bought a box of re-loads he would bring to his classes in various calibers. She was one of the first female NCO West Point candidates ever and was an Expert in both the M-16 and 1911. Testing w/t 1911 was in anticipation of acceptance to WP. She was one of 2 out of her battalion selected. The other candidate was male. After much soul-searching she decided not to pursure the military as a career choice. Much to the chagrin of her company and battalion commanders. Point being she hadn't shot a HG in over 25 years.

So, it would seem best to _not _make suppositions regarding HG proficiency potential based on _anything_. At, least not w/o serious professional training. Otherwise, the foot one shoots may very well be one's own! :smt1099

My personal suggestion to the OP echos previous posts. Shoot as many pistols/revolvers as possible. There is always going to be a level of compromise between price, size, weight, concealability, ammo cost and accessory options. For example my wife carries our P11 w/C.O.P. 115 gr +p JHP in fair weather and a mix of FMJ and JHP in winter as clothing is generally more thick. 115 gr +P is the 'hottest' round recommended for a KT P11. My EDC? Laugh haters, but my choice is a Sterling Arms 300 .25 acp manufactured in Gasport, NY sometime between '72-'76. _All machined steel._ I use a mix of PMC Bronze 50 gr FMJ and Remington 50 gr FMJ. Why a weak .25 round pistol? Because it's a 6 + 1, all steel, easily concealable, I can place all 7 shots in 6-9" groupings w/my off hand from 25 ft _and _ there's always ammo available at WM for 25 acp.

_If_ I upgrade I'm getting a Magnum Arms .380 Micro Desert Eagle. I've shot everything in .380 except a MPA Protector 2 and a Seecamp. The NAA Guardian was ok, but the MDE just fit my hand better and is a much higher quality piece. Polymer while nice and light is a detriment to accurate follow-ups w/o extensive and regular range time. Who can afford that given the cost of even 'practice quality' .380? The MDE has all the features I want in a EDC. All machined steel, heavy DAO trigger, accurate, weight allowing for consistant follow-ups and, frankly it's butt-ugly. That fact appeals to me on some level.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Cait43 told you right [deliberate bad English].

Start by visiting a major gun show or shows (New Hampshire?) and a number of gun shops to see and handle as many guns in your category as you can. Make a list of your candidates as you do this. Then begin willowing that list down a bit until you have a manageable number of guns from which to choose.

Then try to find a range(s) where you can rent these guns and see how you do with them. You should wind up with candidate list of three or four guns after all of this. Then it's a matter of taking your decision for your purchase.

Training is always good but common sense and adherence to the basic safety rules is better when starting out with this. Learn the laws of your state and how they affect you should you ever have to use that firearm in your defense. And yes, do get good training for your own improvement and efficiency with that gun... especially if you intend to use it for defensive work.

As for caliber, there is an adage here. Choose the most powerful caliber and load with which you can deliver rounds to target accurately, consistently, and confidently. Yes there is a little wiggle room here and of course, how that gun fits your specific wants, needs, and requirements is also going to dictate what you buy. So don't get too hung up on caliber; just remember that when asking a round to save your skin, you don't want to skimp too much. In a word, the most important criteria for a defensive handgun are in order;

o Reliability. If the gun doesn't go bang when it is supposed to, everything that follow is moot.
o Practical accuracy. Your ability of you and your gun to send rounds to target accurately, consistently, and confidently.
o Power. The ability of the chosen caliber and load to stop your assailant's attack as quickly as possible.

Good luck in your quest.


----------



## pedro45 (Mar 13, 2014)

Folks, I looked at two guns today after a week of shooting and shopping. One is a MP 40 Range Kit with an expensive holster, a speed bullet loader, and two extra magazines with a belt holder for them, all for 650 dollars. The other gun is an all black 38 special hammerless revolver for a concealed carry perhaps. Any thoughts on these two guns would be appreciated. The revolver is used and is 350 bucks. So additionally what are your thoughts on used guns in general? The more I learn, the more irritated I am with the Massachusetts laws, good lord! Those laws make me want to buy privately, used or from out of state but I'm sure of the legality of that. I also wish there was one site one could go to that really explained what one can and cannot do in Mass.


----------



## northstar19 (Aug 11, 2013)

pedro45, if you are moving up from .22, I would recommend strongly going to 9mm first. (Powerful but manageable.) Nothing wrong with staying there, either. Many police and military around the world are armed with 9mm. And I would advise you to go to a gun shop and try out a Glock. An outstanding firearm. Especially the generation 4 models. The grip on those models is slender, more than the generations before. But the gen 4 grip can also be modified to fit any hand. Try the Glock 17 full sized model. Then the Glock 19 compact. There is also a "baby" Glock 26. (Usually for concealed carry.) You can buy these guns at the shop, or you can search online and buy from a website. Often, the price is better online. But the website company must send the gun to the shop, where you will pay a small transfer fee. (In case you didn't realize.) At any rate, pedro45, good luck on your new firearm adventure.


----------



## welshdude (Mar 16, 2014)

pedro45 said:


> Folks, I looked at two guns today after a week of shooting and shopping. One is a MP 40 Range Kit with an expensive holster, a speed bullet loader, and two extra magazines with a belt holder for them, all for 650 dollars. The other gun is an all black 38 special hammerless revolver for a concealed carry perhaps. Any thoughts on these two guns would be appreciated. The revolver is used and is 350 bucks. So additionally what are your thoughts on used guns in general? *The more I learn, the more irritated I am with the Massachusetts laws, good lord! Those laws make me want to buy privately, used or from out of state but I'm sure of the legality of that.* I also wish there was one site one could go to that really explained what one can and cannot do in Mass.


I feel you there Pedro. My wife is from MA and her mother had to get a permit to carry PEPPER SPRAY!! Unbelievable. A few years back a woman shot and killed an intruder who was attacking her physically. She was convicted of murder and had to do time. The reason? She had a locked and bolted back door, but it was still considered a means of escape she failed to use. IN HER OWN HOME!! Can you imagine? The best thing you can do for yourself is move south of the M/D line where one can still breathe w/o being taxed to death and there are sensible HG regulations.

Ok, rant over. For a CCW a revolver is more difficult to conceal w/o printing. Here's this one from Taurus that's pretty light, but isn't a proven SD weapon as it's just on the market: 
Taurus 85VTA Revolver | .38 Special 5 Rounds Silver Finish

I've never shot one, but I _have _shot the Ruger LCR in all calibers, SW 642 hammerless and the Taurus 85 and almost every 'pocket pistol' .380 on the market. Even the smallest revolver is huge when compared to the pocket .380s. As I stated in my other post if/when I upgrade from a .25 acp to a .380 my choice is going to be a Magnum Arms Micro Desert Eagle .380 Here's a youtube review: Micro Desert Eagle .380 Review - YouTube

The combination of weight, concealability, quality, fit and feel just spoke to me. Having shot one the main thing it's got over the ubiquitous polymer pocket .380s is re-set/follow-up shots. The larger .380s like the Bersa Thunder, AMT Back-Up(not recommended as it's a POS)were admittedly more accurate, but heavier and larger therefore sacrificing concealabilty. The MDE hit the 'sweet spot' for me. Everything is a compromise in one regard or another, but the MDE is a very high quality pistol for the money. Prices range from 350-450 used. My LGS had a used one that was 419+ tax and BGC.

Another issue is the single/double action trigger type .380s such as the Sig 238. _Very _high quality, but the S/D action is a dealbreaker. Double action only w/a relatively stout trigger pull is much more preferable to me. Our P11 is 9 lbs and the MDE is 8.5, so it's a _little _lighter, but heavy enough so one's chances of doing a 'Plaxico Burress' are substantially reduced. That's alot my than 'my 2 cts', but as a recent newbie myself I can appreciate your desire to get right first time around. Had we done what you're doing beforehand we wouldn't have gotten skinned on one of our first 2 pistol choices. Good luck in your search. One's EDC is a very personal piece of equipment and trying out everything possible before making a decision is prudent.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Welcome to "the club"! I would recommend the Glock 17 or 19 Gen 4. These are arguably the best out of the box combat ready pistols on the market, and the 9mm is very manageable with the polymer frames. I have both and have owned operated just about every pistol in the top echelon produced by the best manufacturers. Sig, FN, BHP, S&W, Styer, Beretta, and I went back to the Glock 9mm. Hard to beat! Safety, reliability, cost...can't beat Glock.


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

My recommendation? A Sturm-Ruger Revolver in 38 Special/357 Magnum (dual) caliber. Get one with a 3 or 4 inch barrel; (NOT shorter) and have the good sense to stay away from any revolver with an enclosed hammer. (You might need that exposed hammer spur for longer shots; or on those days when your arthritis is getting the better of you.) 

No insult intended, but you've never really used a pistol in your entire life; and starting out, now, with a Glock is my idea of HSIA. (That's, 'Human Stupidity In Action'.) 

I'm a good ten years older than you; I just had surgery on both of my very well overused hands; and my Glocks are back in the safe. (Because older shooters with older hand problems aren't able to rack slides as well as they used to. I'm not quite there, yet; but, I'm presently faced with a 6 month hiatus from shooting; and, if I keep on breathing, I'm sure this eventuality will arrive someday.) 

Right now I'm carrying a Ruger SP-101 with a 3 inch barrel, exposed hammer spur, and soft rubber Hogue Monogrip. I carry it in a highly concealable Jeff Hays belt holster with a pair of Bianchi Speed Loaders in my front pocket. (Always load a combat revolver with your STRONG hand!) 

Reading through this thread makes me very glad that I started handling firearms when I was only 9 years old, as well as semiautomatic pistols and magnum revolvers before I was 14. I'm going to recommend that you begin using a gun by carefully memorizing, 'Cooper's Four Rules Of Firearm Safety'. These rules really do cover everything important that you need to know about safe gun handling. Memorization, however, is never enough. 

If you're going to be truly safe around a gun then, 'The Four Rules' have to be inculcated into your daily habit and behavior patterns - THAT is going to take some time; and the involved learning curve is no place for you to be practicing with a Glock - Especially not if you are fooled into following the usual internet advice to always carry your Glock in C-1. 

(Because, otherwise, you're not going to be a real man. You're no better than a sissy. The other guy who has his Glock in C-1 is a better gunman than you; or your Glock is just a brick if it hasn't got a round in the chamber. You run the risk of becoming, 'dog food' if you carry in C-3; etc., etc.) 

After buying that first handgun your best course of action would be to seek out professional gun safety and handling instruction. I'm going to give you the NRA Training Division's main phone number. The NRA will be able to direct you to local handgun instructors in your home area. 

Education and Training|Education and Training
Phone: 703-267-1500 

Finally, I'm going to add that if you discover you have pistol handling and shooting problems which are related to your advanced age or physical condition, then, there ain't nothing wrong with using a pistol that's chambered in: 22 LR, 22 WMR, or even the FN 5.27 x 28mm pistol. (The Five-Seven will cost you; but it's a perennial favorite with older people and women who don't have a lot of hand strength; and need a few extra rounds in order to, 'get one in there'.) 

The caveat is that, when you use a small caliber pistol, you will need to be able to shoot fairly straight; and there will be a necessity for you to fire multiple shots, quickly, into a fairly small area of the target. (Because, otherwise, a small caliber pistol just ain't going to work well for ya; and you will have, big time, attacker-stopping problems!) 

To reiterate: I've been doing this for a long time; and I've, quite literally, trained thousands of novices in how to handle firearms. I don't think that you should start out with any semiautomatic pistol. If - after you've been at it for awhile - you want to move over to a semi-auto, then, fine. You'll have a proven track record and some good experience, 'under your belt'. (Just remember that older people can have handling problems with semiautomatic slides.) 

Here's what I'm carrying today: 



















(That's Jeff Hays' Ruger SP-101, not mine. I only own the holster and I'm too lazy to take new pictures. My SP-101 is shown in the first two photos.) Here: 
*JEFF COOPER'S FOUR RULES OF SAFE GUN HANDLING*​
*1. The gun is ALWAYS loaded!

2. Never allow the muzzle to point at - or, even, so much as sweep across - ANYTHING you are unwilling to see destroyed!

3. Never put your finger inside the trigger guard until AFTER you have made a conscious decision to fire!

4. CLEARLY identify your target, the target's backstop, and what is beyond!

Don't embellish these rules. They are what they are for good reasons! In order for any firearm safety rule to become truly effective it must stop being just a rule, and become a PROFOUND PERSONAL HABIT, instead.*


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Glock Doctor said:


> My recommendation? A Sturm-Ruger Revolver in 38 Special/357 Magnum (dual) caliber. Get one with a 3 or 4 inch barrel; (NOT shorter) and have the good sense to stay away from any revolver with an enclosed hammer. (You might need that exposed hammer spur for longer shots; or on those days when your arthritis is getting the better of you.)
> 
> No insult intended, but you've never really used a pistol in your entire life; and starting out, now, with a Glock is my idea of HSIA. (That's, 'Human Stupidity In Action'.) I'm a good ten years older than you; I just had surgery on both of my very well overused hands; and my Glocks are back in the safe. (Because older shooters with older hand problems aren't able to rack slides as well as they used to. I'm not quite there, yet; but, I'm presently faced with a 6 month hiatus from shooting; and, if I keep on breathing, I'm sure this eventuality will arrive someday.)
> 
> ...


Now I know what your issue with Glocks are! You're a "REVOLVER GUY"!!! LOL

Seriously, the SP 101 is one of the best, most reliable and most sought after revolvers made. Great guns!!! That said, I would not carry a revolver unless it was all there was to carry. That said, it's always best to stick with what works for you. THAT said, the Glock 19 is probably the #1 most recommended starter pistol on the market. It will always be in the top five recommendations, unless you're too old to operate them and need a revolver! ;-)


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Here's my usual EDC:










I do own a lot of really nice revolvers; but I ain't no revolver guy. If things stay the same in the future as they have in the past: Hand me a pistol - any pistol - and, just as I've always done, I'll shoot it well. :mrgreen:


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Glock Doctor said:


> Here's my usual EDC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Which model?


----------



## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

Hey Pedro45 I started at 62 (2012 lat Nov) went with a friend and shot his .38 revolver, his Ruger LC9 and his Ruger SR40C. I fell in love with the Ruger SR40C. hopefully i can maintain myself to carry this for a good while. A good range session with .40S&W puts a bit of pressure on these 63 year old hands. many people my age love their.357 Revolvers (That they practice with .38 but carry the .357 magnum for defense) and some just are happy with a .38. I would suggest that you tryout as many different calibers and guns that you can to decide what's best for your purposes. I would suggest starting off with 9mm (alot of people say that .45Auto is a softer shot than a .40 so i would try that one out too.)


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

GCBHM said:


> Nice! Which model?


It's one of an identical pair of 3rd gen. G-21's that I own. Everyone tells me that they look like Glocks; but they, sure, don't handle like Glocks! I've completely rebuilt the both of them. Right now the 10 year round count on each of them is, about, 19,000 fired rounds - During the past 7 years I haven't had so much as a single hiccup! (I've been changing the recoil springs every 6 or 7 thousand rounds.)

The Barrels, like many of my semi-auto barrels, are made by Bar-Sto Precision. I do a lot of fast shooting; and the muzzle-ports are useful rather than decorative. The frames are lightly stippled under the: thumb, web of the hand, and trigger guard. I've got Wolff steel guide rods and ALL Wolff Gunsprings. Both pistols have permanent trigger stops.

Some people think the standard frame G-21's are too large. I don't. I'm able to shoot those frames with their very wide backstraps all day long without any significant hand fatigue. The highest daily round count I've reached, so far, is 500 rounds. (I'm unable to do the same thing with an H&K USP because the backstrap is just too narrow to be comfortable during extended firing periods.)

I'm getting older; and, in recent years, I've sold off a whole bunch of guns - All of them were in primo condition, and all of them at good prices; but, I'm going to be hanging onto these flawlessly performing early 3rd generation Glocks. If I were to let them go; I wouldn't be able to duplicate their many desirable features with anything in current Glock production; e.g.: hardened steel internal parts; Tenifer treated, manganese-phosphate coated, and polymerized-oil covered slides; and machined steel extractors. Glock doesn't do any of this, anymore.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Glock Doctor said:


> It's one of an identical pair of 3rd gen. G-21's that I own. Everyone tells me that they look like Glocks; but they, sure, don't handle like Glocks! I've completely rebuilt the both of them. Right now the 10 year round count on each of them is, about, 19,000 fired rounds - During the past 7 years I haven't had so much as a single hiccup! (I've been changing the recoil springs every 6 or 7 thousand rounds.)
> 
> The Barrels, like many of my semi-auto barrels, are made by Bar-Sto Precision. I do a lot of fast shooting; and the muzzle-ports are useful rather than decorative. The frames are lightly stippled under the: thumb, web of the hand, and trigger guard. I've got Wolff steel guide rods and ALL Wolff Gunsprings. Both pistols have permanent trigger stops.
> 
> ...


Good looking pistol. I like the 21...of course, I prefer the Gen 4 b/c the grip is slightly smaller (small hands). I really like the Glock pistols. They are no nonsense, straight forward working machines, and they are perfect for CC. I've carried all manner of pistols over the years looking for that "perfect carry pistol" for me, and I have come back to Glock. I'd carry any gen push comes to shove, but the grip size difference in the Gen 4s makes a difference for me. The 17 and 19 fit my hand perfectly much the same way the BHP does (a pistol I still love and call my favorite of all time). I have shot extensively with the 9, 40 and 45, and for the longest time I swore by the .40 b/c it was the "best" round on the market, yadda yadda...but over time I found that I shoot best with the 9. That also hurt my feelings b/c I love the .45, and I shoot pretty well with it, but when I started working on what I call defense shooting, I found I could shoot faster and more accurately with the 9. I use the 135 grain Hornady Critical Duty round, and it has really good reviews. I hope I never have to prove it!!!!

What would you say is your favorite pistol of all?


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

GCBHM said:


> Good looking pistol. I like the 21...of course, I prefer the Gen 4 b/c the grip is slightly smaller (small hands). I really like the Glock pistols. They are no nonsense, straight forward working machines, and they are perfect for CC. I've carried all manner of pistols over the years looking for that "perfect carry pistol" for me, and I have come back to Glock. I'd carry any gen push comes to shove, but the grip size difference in the Gen 4s makes a difference for me. The 17 and 19 fit my hand perfectly much the same way the BHP does (a pistol I still love and call my favorite of all time). I have shot extensively with the 9, 40 and 45, and for the longest time I swore by the .40 b/c it was the "best" round on the market, yadda yadda...but over time I found that I shoot best with the 9. That also hurt my feelings b/c I love the .45, and I shoot pretty well with it, but when I started working on what I call defense shooting, I found I could shoot faster and more accurately with the 9. I use the 135 grain Hornady Critical Duty round, and it has really good reviews. I hope I never have to prove it!!!!
> 
> What would you say is your favorite pistol of all?


I'm glad to hear someone say that he likes 4th gen. Glocks; and that his work well. I've heard so many of the other comments that I've become convinced to stay away from all new Glocks. I've, also, had serious extraction/ejection problems with my midrange serial number G-19; and I don't want to, ever again, get involved with, 'wringing out' another new Glock pistol.

When my G-21's were new they had the original #4256 trigger bars in them; so, I guess, I don't have to tell you what problems I had there! Just before I was ready to bury my first two Glocks in the back garden Glock got sued by two large police agencies, and FINALLY came out with new trigger bars in order to fix the problem. Originally my G-21's were very dangerous to shoot; but after installing the new #4256-1 trigger bars both pistols have been FLAWLESS. (I'm still waiting on my G-19(RTF2), though! I'm over 3 bills into the problem; and I still haven't found a solution.)

I don't think I'd go so far as to say that, 'Glock pistols are perfect for CCW.' You can't carry a C-1 Glock in either your pocket, or inside your belt; and, quite frankly, I've already been in situations where I needed to carry expediently; and my C-1 Glock was certainly less than an ideal pistol to use. (Shades of Plaxico Burress!)

Neither do I have a problem with the size of a 3rd generation, standard frame, Glock Model 21. It's not that my hands are so large - I do have to stretch my trigger finger in order to take up the slack on the first shot. More than 10 years ago, now, I adjusted to the large size of the G-21's grip; and, nowadays, I really like the extra-wide backstap. It actually cushions the web of my hand, and allows me to COMFORTABLY fire several hundred shots across the space of an afternoon without screwing up my older hands. (Can't do the same thing with either a 1911 pattern, or an H&K USP.)

I carried any one of several Browning P-35's, on and off, for more than two decades. Great pistol, geat design! Sometimes I wonder why I ever got away from it? (At the time, and just like the old SAS, I carried these pistols in C-3 as well.) Still, I don't think I've ever been truly comfortable carrying anybody's 9 x 19mm pistol. Me? I've always felt most secure while fielding a 45 ACP pistol.

Probably because I've spent, 'mucho dinero' and fired many thousands of 45 ACP rounds I'm just as fast and just as accurate with a 45 caliber pistol as I am with a 9 x 19mm. I haven't done it lately; but, in the past, it hasn't been uncommon for me to outshoot other line shooters who were using 9mm's. (One evening at an IDPA indoor event I even beat a factory shooter who was using a beautiful CZ pistol. You should have seen the look of dislike he gave me after I, 'dusted' the last row of targets!) To my mind there really are good reasons why the IDPA labels 45 ACP as a, 'major caliber'; and 9mm as a, 'minor caliber'.

A few years ago there was a, now infamous, police shootout in nearby Hazelton, PA. Two cops were wounded, and the perp - one badly screwed up, but, tough SOB - took 17 hits from 40 caliber, 180 grain, CCI/Speer Gold Dots, stayed on his feet, and continued the fight until a late arriving officer with a 5.56mm tactical rifle finally put him down. (I don't know what the guy was on; but he was sitting up, talking, while they loaded him into the ambulance! Wait, the coroner did report that there were no (appreciable) narcotic substances in his system. He died shortly after arriving at the hospital, though.)

The problem is that I know, at least, several other stories like this! Consequently, while I do occasionally carry a 9mm pistol, nowadays, I'm much more at ease with one of my 45 ACP pistols. (I hate working hard in order to shoot a pistol well; and, at present, I'm still trying to figure out exactly, 'What' the 40 caliber Smith & Wesson cartridge is really for? Beats me!)

Personally, I have no problem, whatsoever, rapid firing a 45 ACP pistol; but, then again, you can see how I've got my G-21's set up. The rest of it is really nothing more than regular practice. When I carry a 45 ACP I keep 28 rounds of ammo with it. When I carry a 9mm I keep 32 rounds on hand. (In the old days I use to carry 18 rounds with a 1911 pattern pistol. How times do change, huh!) This is a lot of weight to have on your belt; but, after years of doing it, I actually feel naked without this belt load tugging at my waist.

My, 'favorite handgun'? In a better, saner, and safer world it would be my 357 Magnum, S&W Model 686 carried with two Del Fatti speedloader carriers with Safariland, 'Comp II' speedloaders inside. In this world, however, it's my early manufactured, low serial number, third generation G-21's. (Pistols with features that are now gone forever!)





































(No, this doesn't mean that I'm a, 'revolver guy'. I simply shoot double-action well; but, I ain't stupid enough to slow myself down by carrying a revolver while I'm out 'n about on today's, 'mean streets'.)


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

GD, it would seem to me you have certainly worked out your issues and found your pistols of choice! I think it is what every shooter should do, but few do. It seems to me most just go buy what is most popular at the time, show all their buddies, take the thing home and put it up, then say "Yeah, I have a gun for home defense". But if something ever happened, they'd be lucky to get out alive b/c they know nothing about their weapon or how to actually use it. I tell folks that if you're not going to take the time to train with the weapon, get to know its characteristics, work on shooting scenarios and become proficient with the weapon, don't get one. You're just going to get yourself hurt or killed. I bought my wife the S&W Shield, and we go to the range regularly to work on shooting, to get familiar with the weapon, etc. We discuss what we would do in the case there is an intruder, etc. Training breeds competence, and competence breeds confidence. Be responsible enough to learn the discipline it requires to own/operate a firearm.


----------



## pedro45 (Mar 13, 2014)

Any thoughts? I can buy an XD9mm that's had 300 dollars worth of improvements and an XD9 sc both in great shape from an instructor for 1400 dollars FTF, they didn't cost near that new, of course, so that's frustrating, but what do people here think of that deal? Thanks so much for any input on this. I had hoped to get a nice Concealed carry and a larger gun for the range and pay tops around 1000 bucks together, is that realistic? thanks. pete


----------



## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pedro45:
I think the instructor is taking advantage of you, new XD's go for around $500 each. At least with a new gun you will get a warrantee, any gun that has had "improvements" probably would have voided the warrantee except for maybe sights. For $1000 bucks you can buy a nice semi auto (XD, CZ, Glock etc.) plus a decent revolver (S&W, Ruger) and have the best of both worlds. You can take your pick from the many suggestions from the posters on this forum. Just stay away from Taurus, too many issues with them.


----------

