# 9mm vs .40 vs .45



## Treycly

Hello, I'm looking to buy a new pistol soon. Iv decided on either the glock or the smith and Wesson m&p. now the only decision is whether to get the 9mm, .40 cal, or the .45 cal. I want to hear your opinions about pros, cons, price to shoot, best brand of ammo, best grain, practicality, etc. anything you think I need to know about these I want you to tell me! Thanks for the input and y'all have a nice day!

P.S. This is going to be a conceal and carry pistol.


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## pic

Treycly said:


> Hello, I'm looking to buy a new pistol soon. Iv decided on either the glock or the smith and Wesson m&p. now the only decision is whether to get the 9mm, .40 cal, or the .45 cal. I want to hear your opinions about pros, cons, price to shoot, best brand of ammo, best grain, practicality, etc. anything you think I need to know about these I want you to tell me! Thanks for the input and y'all have a nice day!
> 
> P.S. This is going to be a conceal and carry pistol.


check out these posts, plenty of info
click link http://www.handgunforum.net/search.php?searchid=324341


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## SouthernBoy

Well you didn't specify which Glock or M&P so I am going to assume a general stance in my responses here.

Both are fine choices and would serve you well. I have examples in all three of your mentioned calibers in the M&P and two of them (9mm and .40S&W) in the Glock line. For what it's worth, I carry one of my gen3 Glock 23's (.40) on a regular basis and I shoot one of my M&P's (9mm Pro Series with 4.25" barrel) quite a bit.

The 9mm in either of these platforms is going to be less expensive and easier to shoot than the other two calibers because the ammo is cheaper and the recoil is less. This is not to say this caliber is the better choice for self defense but it is a better choice for people new at this game who both want and need range work practice. For target 9mm, my preference is Winchester "White Box" in 115 grain FMJ or Federal American Eagle 115 grain, also in FMJ. The same goes for .40S&W and .45ACP in terms of brands of ammo though bullet weight preferences for me are 165 grain and 230 grain respectively.

So what do I think you would be smart to consider in either of these platforms for a new gun, a new gun owner, and copious range work? The Glock 19 or the M&P 9 with the 4.25" barrel. My primary reason for suggesting these two guns, other than the fact that both are excellent choices, is the possibility that you may want to carry at some point and both make fine carry guns. The primary reason I did not mention choices in .40S&W or .45ACP is due to the cost of ammunition. If this is not a factor, then let me know and I'll cover those calibers as well.

I can offer more info if you also offer more criteria and your personal conditions (do you have large hands, what about experience with firearms, etc.).


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## Treycly

SouthernBoy said:


> Well you didn't specify which Glock or M&P so I am going to assume a general stance in my responses here.
> 
> Both are fine choices and would serve you well. I have examples in all three of your mentioned calibers in the M&P and two of them (9mm and .40S&W) in the Glock line. For what it's worth, I carry one of my gen3 Glock 23's (.40) on a regular basis and I shoot one of my M&P's (9mm Pro Series with 4.25" barrel) quite a bit.
> 
> The 9mm in either of these platforms is going to be less expensive and easier to shoot than the other two calibers because the ammo is cheaper and the recoil is less. This is not to say this caliber is the better choice for self defense but it is a better choice for people new at this game who both want and need range work practice. For target 9mm, my preference is Winchester "White Box" in 115 grain FMJ or Federal American Eagle 115 grain, also in FMJ. The same goes for .40S&W and .45ACP in terms of brands of ammo though bullet weight preferences for me are 165 grain and 230 grain respectively.
> 
> So what do I think you would be smart to consider in either of these platforms for a new gun, a new gun owner, and copious range work? The Glock 19 or the M&P 9 with the 4.25" barrel. My primary reason for suggesting these two guns, other than the fact that both are excellent choices, is the possibility that you may want to carry at some point and both make fine carry guns. The primary reason I did not mention choices in .40S&W or .45ACP is due to the cost of ammunition. If this is not a factor, then let me know and I'll cover those calibers as well.
> 
> I can offer more info if you also offer more criteria and your personal conditions (do you have large hands, what about experience with firearms, etc.).


The cost of ammo is really not that big of a deal, I would like to hear what you have to say about the .40 and the .45. Also, I have hands on the smaller size, iv been around firearms my entire life but do not have much experience with larger sized pistols. I currently own a .22 revolver of my own that was passed down from my father. I have shot pistols ranging from a compact .40 cal to a full sized desert eagle (was entirely to big!). In this pistol I would like to be able to get one that would not be too different for my girlfriend to learn to shoot just incase she ever needed too.


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## denner

When you say the best it implies a misnomer. What's best for you may not be best for someone else. It's going to boil down to training and your shot placement above the caliber choice involving these three. If you have limited experience in shooting handguns other than the .22, the 9mm has less felt recoil, unless you opt for a large framed semi in the .40 or 45. Shooting .40 and .45 and even some 9mm in pistols less than 17 ounces is generally a hand full. More recoil = more muzzle flip and generally more time to get your sights back on target unless you are an advanced shooter. Even so, a snappy recoiling pistol in a beginner's hands may bring on flinching, pulling, heeling, dipping etc... The question I pose to you is which caliber do you shoot the best, meaning which caliber can you accurately put on target in the least amount of time? If you can't hit your target it won't matter what caliber your using and perhaps pose a safety risk to non intended targets. In other words it may not be wise to put the cart before the horse.


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## XD40inAVL

My XD40sc is the exact same size as the XD9sc the wife carries. 

I see the .40 as the sweet spot between 9 and .45, with the power (energy delivered to BG) and mag capacity.


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## SouthernBoy

Treycly said:


> The cost of ammo is really not that big of a deal, I would like to hear what you have to say about the .40 and the .45. Also, I have hands on the smaller size, iv been around firearms my entire life but do not have much experience with larger sized pistols. I currently own a .22 revolver of my own that was passed down from my father. I have shot pistols ranging from a compact .40 cal to a full sized desert eagle (was entirely to big!). In this pistol I would like to be able to get one that would not be too different for my girlfriend to learn to shoot just incase she ever needed too.


I have no experience with Glocks in .45ACP so I would defer that to others who can help you with this. I do have experience with the Glock 23 and the Glock 27. With rather small hands, the Glock 23 would be a natural for you although I wouldn't rule out the G22. You could certain carry either one of them, however the G23 is generally a better carry gun that the G22 because of its size. Both are good choices.

The M&P 40 is also a very fine piece and mine has the 4.25" barrel just like my Pro 9. It is accurate and very comfortable to shoot and has a decent magazine capacity. The M&P line is right up there with the best. My M&P 45 has the full size frame with the 4" barrel. I chose this one in the .45ACP because it felt so good in my hand and has a very good balance. It is also sized right for carrying purposes in my opinion. With the three backstrap inserts, it's easy to find the correct grip feel for your hand. I have somewhat smaller hands and the small insert in the .45 works best for me while the medium is best in my 9mm and .40 M&P's.

Best thing you could do is to visit a shop that has a range and rent some of these guns to see what works best for you. Any one of them should do you well.


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## tacman605

Treycly.

All pistol calibers, 9mm, .40 and .45, will generally do the same thing as all are relatively weak, generally speaking. The .40 was/is the middle of the road caliber between the 9mm and .45. Over the years 9mm bullets became heavier and .45 bullets became lighter all striving for the ultimate pistol round.

A lot of issues with the 9mm were related to the lack of good expanding hollow points or good self defense ammo in general. With modern defensive ammo it works quite well. The .45 is not a sure thing either. It does shoot a larger diameter and heavier bullet but that does not assure that it will drop the bad guy in one shot either.

The .40 gives a middle of the road bullet diameter and weight in a package roughly the size of a 9mm with the same basic magazine capacity. The trend over the last few years has been to put the biggest caliber into the smallest gun possible which is not always a good thing.

The standard Glock 21, to me, had such a large grip that I simply felt I was holding a 2 x 4 in my hand. The 9mm and .40's were no problem. At one time I had every model of .40 cal Glock that was made and ending up selling them off simply because it would not go anything the 9mm would not do. 

I own several 9mm and .45 caliber handguns many being M&P's. I generally carry a 9mm of some type, on occasion I carry my 1911. My dedicated house gun is a full size M&P .45 I simply chose it because I shoot it well it could just as easily be a 9mm.

Over here I carry a 9mm Glock 19 with a WML and ball ammo identical to the one I carry back home and have never felt under gunned. It has done everything I needed it to. You have to decide what fits your need and your grip, skills and manipulation abilities are no matter what the brand as long as it is a quality brand.

Good luck in your search.


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## shaolin

I have 8 Glocks and my favorite is the Glock 19 9mm. With 127 grain +p+ Rangers they are a 91% manstopper with one bullet. I can shoot the 9mm faster and more accurate than the other Glocks and Calibers so that is why I carry it. The Glock 23 .40 S&W is a good gun too but the recoil is snappy and the Glock 36 .45acp has the worst recoil of all the Glocks. The myth of a 9mm being underpowered came in the 80's when transition to higher capacity pistols started but the ammo evolution was not as developed yet as it is today. Today any of the major 9mm rounds will give good results with proper placement. The ammo is easier to find and cheaper! Get yourself a Glock 19 and you will be fine.


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## XRacer

I say 9mm though many of the compacts have the same frame size for both 9 and 40.


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## paratrooper

If someone manufactured a compact pistol chambered for the .50 BMG round, that's what I'd go with. 

Oh yeah.....and it would have to have night sights. :mrgreen:


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## SouthernBoy

paratrooper said:


> If someone manufactured a compact pistol chambered for the .50 BMG round, that's what I'd go with.
> 
> Oh yeah.....and it would have to have night sights. :mrgreen:


Now THAT would truly meet the definition of hand cannon. Can you imagine trying to shoot something like that in a handgun?


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## TheLAGuy

I'd say start with the 9mm and "mandle" (man handle) your way up. Makes sense IMO.

Right?


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## bigdiesel

I prefer the 40s&w. More punch than a 9mm, carry more rounds than a .45. The only down side is muzzle flip in the lighter guns(if that bothers you). If you don't want the muzzle flip you need a heavier weapon which might not be ideal for a ccw with some people. All my pistols are 40s&w and revolvers are .357. The .357sig is another great ccw round.


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## RadarContact

If you are going to have one gun to range shoot, and/or carry, and/or home defend, etc.:

I think 9mm is a fantastic platform. I prefer the 124gr bullets for range work. Speer Lawman is good stuff at a reasonable price.
Think about it this way-- I will shoot maybe 10,000+ rounds of it before I die, and none of them will go into an intruder, rapist, crazy meth head, etc. (or at least I'm hoping that I won't be required to do that). That said, if I ever needed to, the 9mm with my +p JHP defensive rounds x 17+1 should be a sh!tload of "stopping power". But until then, I will be having fun shooting a caliber that is fairly cheap and fairly easy to master.


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## BigCityChief

I'm partial to the .45 ACP round and enjoy shooting and carrying pistols from as large as my S&W M&P .45 (full size) to my little SA XDs.


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## shaolin

Caution the muzzle blast may knock your home down


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## shaolin

For stopping power it's hard to beat a 120 mm Main Battle Gun from an Abrams Tanks. You should carry one of these bad boys to stop a would be assault on your home.


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## Kahuna2793

What the price difference between these rounds ?
9, 40, 45


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## shaolin

Kahuna2793 said:


> What the price difference between these rounds ?
> 9, 40, 45


If you can find the ammo that would be great but I pay $22 for 100 rds of 9mm, $36 for .40 and $42 for the .45 in FMJ shooting ammo of course custom ammo varies greatly but the more material it takes to make it the higher the cost.


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## Capt Rick Hiott

When you shoot to stop someone, why not a .45? 

If you want to shoot at paper,,a 9mm will be fine....


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## RadarContact

Capt Rick Hiott said:


> When you shoot to stop someone, why not a .45?
> 
> If you want to shoot at paper,,a 9mm will be fine....


But...if you shoot to stop 4 people, I'll take 17 rounds of 9mm over 10 rounds of .45acp.


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## Capt Rick Hiott

,,,,,,o,,,ok


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## thekobk

get the 40 cal glock 23 you can convert it to shoot 9mm and the awesome 357sig for alot less then buying more guns.


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## berettatoter

I am a 9mm fan, so you know how I voted. Seriously, each have their merits.


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## filthyphil

10mm


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## Lateck

I like 9mm to carry in warm weather. I own all three calibers so that's not what I worry about.
My LC9 is small enough to carry on the ankle or under a tee shirt without printing......
So, concealed is the important part of this question.

Lateck,


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## Newfenoix

I own all three but my normal carry pistol is a .40. I believe that it is the best all around cartridge for most uses.


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## ScottieG59

Any of the calibers will be fine if you choose the right ammo and hit your targets. As to ammo choice, I follow what large police departments do, since they have the most experience. 

My primary carry ammo is Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point (GDHP). In 9mm, I go with 124 grain +P, but there are plenty of other +P and +P+ pressures. I do not carry standard pressure if I can help it. 

For 40 S&W, I carry 180 grain Speer GDHP. 

For 45 ACP, I go with 230 grain Speer GDHP in either standard or +P pressure. 

Most of what I see shows that shot placement matters most in handgun combat. Also, once you choose the right ammo, there are few significant differences between the three calibers. 

Another issue is that often, multiple shots are needed to stop an attacker. That being the case, you have to consider which caliber you shoot better. I believe, if you shoot the 40 S&W or 45 ACP well, you will always shoot the 9mm better. This has been proven many times in timed events. Also, the 9mm will carry more rounds than a similarly sized 40 or 45. 

I am partial to the 45 ACP and the 10mm, but I carry my Glock 19 and/or Kahr PM9 more (both 9mm).


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## pic

ScottieG59 said:


> Any of the calibers will be fine if you choose the right ammo and hit your targets. As to ammo choice, I follow what large police departments do, since they have the most experience.
> 
> My primary carry ammo is Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point (GDHP). In 9mm, I go with 124 grain +P, but there are plenty of other +P and +P+ pressures. I do not carry standard pressure if I can help it.
> 
> For 40 S&W, I carry 180 grain Speer GDHP.
> 
> For 45 ACP, I go with 230 grain Speer GDHP in either standard or +P pressure.
> 
> Most of what I see shows that shot placement matters most in handgun combat. Also, once you choose the right ammo, there are few significant differences between the three calibers.
> 
> Another issue is that often, multiple shots are needed to stop an attacker. That being the case, you have to consider which caliber you shoot better. I believe, if you shoot the 40 S&W or 45 ACP well, you will always shoot the 9mm better. This has been proven many times in timed events. Also, the 9mm will carry more rounds than a similarly sized 40 or 45.
> 
> I am partial to the 45 ACP and the 10mm, but I carry my Glock 19 and/or Kahr PM9 more (both 9mm).


I agree with everything you said except "you will always shoot the 9 mm better" 
I can shoot the lips off a fly with my 1911 45


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## OHshooter

I own multiple guns in .40 and 9mm . Ive always liked the .40 Glocks and carry them in "coat" season. Another advantage to the .40 lately is that I can still find ammo easily. I enjoy shooting the 9mm a little more and am probably more accurate, that is when I can find some to shoot.


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## SouthernBoy

pic said:


> I agree with everything you said except "you will always shoot the 9 mm better"
> I can shoot the lips off a fly with my 1911 45


And you know, there just ain't nothing worse than a lipless fly.


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## pic

:mrgreen:


SouthernBoy said:


> And you know, there just ain't nothing worse than a lipless fly.


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## denner

The only problem here is that there ain't no lips on a fly to begin with. Now if you say I can shoot the hair of a fly's leg?


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## pic

denner said:


> The only problem here is that there ain't no lips on a fly to begin with. Now if you say I can shoot the hair of a fly's leg?


I will not google that,lol. I'm gonna take your word on it.lol.:smt024


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## 1911fan

Well that all depends on your ability to shoot accurately. How good of a shot are you? Be honest, your life could depend on it. If your a good shot I would say go for the 45. I personally like a big slow bullet. This will stop the threat even if your off your mark a little. 45s for me personally are very pleasant and easy to shoot, but some will disagree being sound and recoil sensitive. Though 40's have about the same stopping power as the 45 it has much more muzzle flip than the 9 and and the 45. Which subsequently makes it more difficult to line up on the following shot. 9's are by far the easiest to shoot and it holds more capacity which means more shots. I would say if your an ok shot go with the 9, if your a good shot go for the 45. but either way you gonna need to practice if your gonna carry. I use to carry the 45 and the 40 but soon realized it is just too heavy to where all the time. I ended up carrying a smith and wesson airweight with plus p speer ammo. It took a lot of practice to be able to shoot a nice tight group with 2" snubby but man my belt appreciates it alot.


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## SouthernBoy

denner said:


> The only problem here is that there ain't no lips on a fly to begin with. Now if you say I can shoot the hair of a fly's leg?


I used to say, "the under pants label on a flea at 100 yards" in the 60's. Trouble is finding underpants that small to outfit a flea is not going to be easy.


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## paratrooper

What's all this talk about shooting the lips off a fly? :watching:


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## Cait43

Any of the 3 will be just fine for concealed carry....... It is pretty much personal preference.......


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## GCBHM

My advice would be to shoot the glock and M&P side by side in each caliber. Get a feel for what you like best and go with that. I carry the Glock 19 Gen4 and love it, but the M&P is certainly a fine pistol. You may also want to consider the new striker fire offerings from Sig and HK. Both are set to be reasonably priced, and both are top notch weaponry. I'm going to do that same thing myself! I have three Glocks (17, 19, 42) and love them all. I have also shot the 21 and 41, and both are really nice. Smooth, hi-cap .45 pistols that professionals count on. It really is hard to go wrong with any of these pistols in any caliber, so the choice really is yours. Do yourself a favor. Go shoot all of them. You'll have a ton of fun during the process, and you'll gain the necessary experience to make a better decision before you actually buy. Any of these guns will serve you VERY well, whatever you choose. Best to ya!


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## GCBHM

pic said:


> I agree with everything you said except "you will always shoot the 9 mm better"
> I can shoot the lips off a fly with my 1911 45


Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic...

I'm gonna have to see this. I insist! At once I say!!!


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## pic

GCBHM said:


> Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic...
> 
> I'm gonna have to see this. I insist! At once I say!!!


Haven't found a better trigger then a 1911.

Had a situation, in the dark , went for the 1911 for shot placement and reliability. Didn't realize how much I trusted the 1911 until I felt the pressure .
Put a glock in my pocket for backup firepower.
But that's my personal go to comfort in an uncomfortable situation


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## pic

I was exaggerating about the lips of the fly. Lol,, flies don't have lips! I was told
:smt017


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## tps3443

I was in this same situation. I have been around shotguns, and rifles my whole life. And I had shot several .22lr pistols.. But minimal experience with larger handguns. Nothing big or the "Real Deal" as you could say.

So I had gotten my permitt just recently. 3 weeks ago from today. And I was really liking the 9mm round.

I was looking at a (FNH FNS-9 Striker fire) VS. A (Sig Sauer P320 Striker fire) VS. A (H&K VP9)

All of these are the modern and newest type of a reliable striker fire pistol, with reputable, and great reviews in the 9mm caliber on every single one of these (3) guns.

With the newer 9+P bullets, 9mm is very powerful! And back when we felt we needed a bigger gun, we did not have the slew or huge selection of high velocity 9mm ammo we have today in 2014.

So a 9mm is really a different animal compared to what the FBI's people were shooting in the 1980's. In 1986 several FBI men were killed by suspects. Even though these suspects were shot numerous times! One was hit 12 times and still standing. So the FBI went shopping for a larger caliber, and S&W teamed with Winchester to create the 40S&W in the year 1990. The was a shorter version of a beastly 10mm hunting round, to provide less recoil than a 10mm, but similar power characteristics. So the 40S&W was born and it was the all around go to bullet to use!

KEEP IN MIND SOME GLOCK 9MM PISTOLS ARE NOT SAFE TO FIRE A 9+P BULLET BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE A FULLY ENCLOSED OR SUPPORTED CHAMBER.

In the end I ended up getting a FNS-40S&W with night sights. And, I would never change my decision. The calibur is simply amazing, and nothing less. As for 45ACP goes.. The 40s&w and 45 ACP are almost identical in ballistics to really tell a whole lot. So I went 40S&W. And the power, size , and accuracy are awesome! I would recommend a 9mm or a 40 S&W for a first pistol.


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## GCBHM

"KEEP IN MIND SOME GLOCK 9MM PISTOLS ARE NOT SAFE TO FIRE A 9+P BULLET BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE A FULLY ENCLOSED OR SUPPORTED CHAMBER."

This is not true. The Glock was designed to shoot the 9mm NATO round, and they do have a fully enclosed chamber. Not sure where you got this info, but it isn't accurate.


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## tps3443

It says it on all of the 9mm +p bullets on a few sites that sell ammunition . let me try and find this. GCBHM.

I guess just google it. Buffalo Bore +p ammo says, Glocks do NOT have a 100% fully supported barrel, and check with manufacturer or gun smith to inspect weapon to see if your gun has a full supported barrel safe to fire P ammo.

just google it, from what I know all Glocks do not have a full supported barrel. I know the Gen4 has beefed it up a bit.

And there are several people firing +P 9mm ammo out of a standard Glock just fine. 

I imagine it should be ok. I am only stating what alot of +P bullet companys say. They warn you in the disclaimer about a GLOCK and not having 100% barrel support.


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## tps3443

It says it on all of the 9mm +p bullets on a few sites that sell ammunition . let me try and find this. GCBHM.

I guess just google it. Buffalo Bore +p ammo says, Glocks do NOT have a 100% fully supported barrel, and check with manufacturer or gun smith to inspect weapon to see if your gun has a full supported barrel safe to fire P ammo.

just google it, from what I know all Glocks do not have a full supported barrel. I know the Gen4 has beefed it up a bit.

And there are several people firing +P 9mm ammo out of a standard Glock just fine. 

I imagine it should be ok. I am only stating what alot of +P bullet companys say. They warn you in the disclaimer about a GLOCK and not having 100% barrel support.


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## GCBHM

All manufacturers of guns and ammunition will state things like that to cover their butts citing things like it will cause your weapon to wear out prematurely, but any professional grade pistol, such as Glock, Sig, HK, Beretta, etc., will handle the +P ammunition just fine. My guess is someone got sued, so they put things like this out for CYA.


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## EvilTwin

Treycly said:


> Hello, I'm looking to buy a new pistol soon. Iv decided on either the glock or the smith and Wesson m&p. now the only decision is whether to get the 9mm, .40 cal, or the .45 cal. I want to hear your opinions about pros, cons, price to shoot, best brand of ammo, best grain, practicality, etc. anything you think I need to know about these I want you to tell me! Thanks for the input and y'all have a nice day!
> 
> P.S. This is going to be a conceal and carry pistol.


I've been carrying for 40 years as a civilian.. from my point of view, if I'm going to select a rock to throw at a Bad guy IM going to throw a " Big Rock " that's why I carry a 45 ACP. IM too old to have a Big Bad guy get his hands on me carrying two or three 9 mm rounds , while slowed down and now really pissed off. of course one 9mm round placed well with stop a threat.. one well placed 22 round can stop a threat too.. with my experience both in civilian life and my experience as a combat veteran, Ill stick with the big rock.

conceal carry? 45 ACP in my left pocket.. I've been doing this for the last 15 years of my 40 year civilian carry.










My 45 ACP and ammo for my EDC










Hope this helps in your research
Bill aka ET


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## GCBHM

Bill, could you post some shots of your holster, and explain the process of adding/reducing friction? Post it in the holster forum.


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## tps3443

GCBHM said:


> All manufacturers of guns and ammunition will state things like that to cover their butts citing things like it will cause your weapon to wear out prematurely, but any professional grade pistol, such as Glock, Sig, HK, Beretta, etc., will handle the +P ammunition just fine. My guess is someone got sued, so they put things like this out for CYA.


Yep I see what you mean. Guns have blown up before using +p 9mm ammo. I just saw a few online that this happen to, but a 40S&W could blow up to! 40 cal has such a high pressure inside the casing 32000+ psi vs. 22000psi in a 45ACP. This helps it perform similar. But, if the bullet happens to slide further into the brass casing, this can cause a gun explosion. There is very minimal volume in a 40 shell.

Glock has beefed up the GEN4 though. So, I highly doubt this would happen. Plus, who knows how these guns were cared for. Maybe they were never cleaned, maybe they had been fired a few hundred thousand times.

Do I think a new glock would blow up? No! , I dont think so. I mean the guy on YouTube is shooting a full on 223/ 5.56mm round out of a glock. They seem unstoppable to me.

I believe miss use, lack of maintenance, and a gun that has never been cleaned would blow up.

Either way I wish they would create a real 40 S&W +P ammo. I dont think they can though.

Also, GCBHM has alot of experience with Glock. And, I would trust what he says. Do not let my comment worry you about Glock, because of a bullet disclaimer. Anything can blowup, and like he said there proubly trying to save there butt. I imagine if a old, worn, dirty, shot 100,000 times Pistol was going to blow up. Then a 9mm +P would help it out with that.:smt082


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## tps3443

EvilTwin said:


> I've been carrying for 40 years as a civilian.. from my point of view, if I'm going to select a rock to throw at a Bad guy IM going to throw a " Big Rock " that's why I carry a 45 ACP. IM too old to have a Big Bad guy get his hands on me carrying two or three 9 mm rounds , while slowed down and now really pissed off. of course one 9mm round placed well with stop a threat.. one well placed 22 round can stop a threat too.. with my experience both in civilian life and my experience as a combat veteran, Ill stick with the big rock.
> conceal carry? 45 ACP in my left pocket.. I've been doing this for the last 15 years of my 40 year civilian carry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 45 ACP and ammo for my EDC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps in your research
> Bill aka ET


Kimber Super Carry Pro. If I was in this budget, when I was in the market this would have made my mind up to! That is a fine weapon.


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## GCBHM

I don't know that I would claim to be an expert on Glocks. I just have more time with them than any other pistol. But thanks for the vote of confidence. To my knowledge, Glock has not changed the design of the barrel they use. Glocks are built like tanks, but I think all guns have had a major, catastrophic failure of some type. It is always safe to check the manufacturer's recommendations, and know the weapon you're shooting so that you don't shoot a worn out or damaged pistol, but you should be ok shooting any commercially manufactured load. SAAMI and NATO standards are slightly different, but most top shelf pistols are rated to fire them. The .40 really doesn't need a +P, nor does the .357 Sig. They move pretty fast as it is, so you should be good shooting any good JHP for defense.


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## tps3443

I honestly believe, whatever feels the best in the hand I would get it. A 9mm+P , 40S&W , or a 45ACP.
Either of these are great rounds. 9mm will get it done just fine.

The only reason I got a 40S&W was how my situation occured, I just so happened to get a deal on this gun. And I am satisfied with the 40. 

But I did not go looking specifically for a 40S&W. I wanted a 9mm gun, and I was going to shoot 9mm+P bullets through it. 

But it really doesnt matter as much as what type of gun it is. 

I would say caliber is 35-40%. And the make, model, and feel of the gun is the rest of the buying process. 

I am a first time handgun owner. And after about the first 100 rounds of 40 cal, I got very confident, and comfortable with firing my fns 40 now.
And im at roughly 300 rounds now, and I would NOT take it any other way, and the gun just feels natural to me.

So what I am getting at is, any of these calibers is a good choice. All of them 9mm,40,45 are tried and trued defense calibers. 

So if ammo cost does not matter to you. Then heck! Get a 45 lol. But either way high quality +P, hornady, etc.. etc.. in any caliber is expensive! 9mm,40,45. High end high velocity bullets can all go for over $1 per bullet.


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## GCBHM

I would say you are about 75% of the defense system with the pistol being 20%, followed finally with caliber being 5%. A skilled operator can defend themselves with a plastic spoon if they had to. The ballistics btwn the 9mm, .40 and .45 really aren't that drastic, and with the technology in ammunition today, you really don't need anything more than a 9mm. That said, to each their own I say, so pick your poison, per se. Some want overkill like a 10mm, but not me. I'd prefer something that gives me the most capacity for the maximum stopping power in a given scenario. For me, that's the 9mm. Others choose the single stack 9mm, which is fine, but as for me, I like the double stack of the Glock 19. It's the smallest full-size pistol on the market, and the largest compact that I'm aware of. It's JUUUUUUUSt right. LOL


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## rustygun

If glocks were blowing up everyone would sure know with all the glock haters.
The un supported chamber of a glock could cause problems if you reload, especially with high pressure rounds. It can cause a bulge in the spent case where the round is not supported. It can become a weak area.

I like a Glock 30 with a 13rd extra mag.


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## EvilTwin

GCBHM said:


> Bill, could you post some shots of your holster, and explain the process of adding/reducing friction? Post it in the holster forum.


I've been meaning to do this because this is the second time you asked... After my surgery and the downgrading of my physical abilities I bought this Kimber with the ultimate design for my personal carry. I wanted a 45 ACP , because I am not as capable now to " dance with Bad guys" , as I did when I was in my 20's and 30's and 40's.
I bought this gun for its perceived quality, ( which has proven to be more than I expected ) and its specific design from Kimber's custom shop. The weapon has something called " Carry melt " there are no sharp corners anywhere ( Note the safety ... very evident here... but every other angle is rounded and polished).. everything is rounded and polished so there is no chance of catching on clothing in a quick draw. It also comes with Meprolight night sights and Crimson laser grips, which I wanted.

just a heads up on the principles of my pocket carry. Keep the holster in the pocket and not have it come out with the weapon on draw ( High priority ). to do this I increased the frictional coefficient of the outside of the holster, using one directional Velcro hook and eye. the holster slides in the pocket easily but meets resistance when pulling it out. much better than any pocket holster out there. I've had them all. Next was to reduce the amount of friction between the weapon and the inside of the holster. I accomplished this by making a template of the holster using a piece of card board.. I then took simple heavy duty waved paper you find at the grocery store. I traced the template and lined the holster with one piece of waxed paper folded over .. I put the waxed paper in the holster then add the weapon, which forms around the gun. the waxed paper allows the weapon to be drawn with no resistance.. it keeps moisture off the gun from the holster, and it keeps gun oils from saturating the holster.. a liner last for more than a month, even with frequent practice draws.. IN a month I will clean this gun at least four times. and the waxed paper gets slightly dirty.. I have the template right here and it takes about two minutes to make a new liner.

Ill get some pictures up shortly.. I've been busy with my other forums
Bill aka ET


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## tps3443

GCBHM said:


> I would say you are about 75% of the defense system with the pistol being 20%, followed finally with caliber being 5%. A skilled operator can defend themselves with a plastic spoon if they had to. The ballistics btwn the 9mm, .40 and .45 really aren't that drastic, and with the technology in ammunition today, you really don't need anything more than a 9mm. That said, to each their own I say, so pick your poison, per se. Some want overkill like a 10mm, but not me. I'd prefer something that gives me the most capacity for the maximum stopping power in a given scenario. For me, that's the 9mm. Others choose the single stack 9mm, which is fine, but as for me, I like the double stack of the Glock 19. It's the smallest full-size pistol on the market, and the largest compact that I'm aware of. It's JUUUUUUUSt right. LOL


Well for those percentages. It was only for the caliber, and the gun type. But any of these calibers are effective yes. I watched a ocumentary, about women shooters. And alot of them, will only shoot a 45ACP. And some of them want a 380ACP, and some prefer 9mm. So as for caliber I think anyone can learn to adjust. So I guess the caliber is not that big of a deal.

But being comfortable with the gun, and funtions is very important. Anyone could learn to shoot.

But using percentages of only gun and caliber, and not the shooter. but you are right. I mean, if trained enough a guy with a Glock 17 9mm could take out a room with, 5 terrorist armed with ak47's. Before they could pop off one round.


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## GCBHM

Right, being comfortable with your weapon is paramount.


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## rustygun

GCBHM said:


> Right, being comfortable with your weapon is paramount.


I agree.


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## tps3443

There are so many people who buy guns, and end of never shooting it. Because it scares them, or makes them flinch, and they despise pulling the trigger again. 

Get a 9mm. Shoot 9mm+P ammo in 124grain. And call it a day.

I personally would get the Glock over the M&P anyday.

I really want a Glock 20 10mm 4th gen! That is such a awesome gun!
I mean im pretty sure the country store down the street sells parts for it haha. 

Love that 10mm


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## GCBHM

tps3443 said:


> It says it on all of the 9mm +p bullets on a few sites that sell ammunition . let me try and find this. GCBHM.
> 
> I guess just google it. Buffalo Bore +p ammo says, Glocks do NOT have a 100% fully supported barrel, and check with manufacturer or gun smith to inspect weapon to see if your gun has a full supported barrel safe to fire P ammo.
> 
> just google it, from what I know all Glocks do not have a full supported barrel. I know the Gen4 has beefed it up a bit.
> 
> And there are several people firing +P 9mm ammo out of a standard Glock just fine.
> 
> I imagine it should be ok. I am only stating what alot of +P bullet companys say. They warn you in the disclaimer about a GLOCK and not having 100% barrel support.


BTW, no semi-auto has a "100% fully enclosed chamber". If it did it would be a single action, hand loaded pistol that could not be fed with a magazine. While Glock did experience some issues early on, it was never really attributed to the notion of an unsupported chamber. As stated, all pistols have experienced catastrophic failure. You may see more reports of Glock b/c there are more Glocks out on the street being used by more professionals than any other pistol.

I compared the barrels in my Glocks to my HK VP9 tonight, and you can notice a marginal difference, but it is minute. I have read that most catastrophic failures occur due to shooting reloads that have been over pressurized above SAAMI standards than can be attributed to an unsupported barrel chamber. There is actually a thread on the site that discusses this. Some Glock bashers overstate the perceived dangers, but Glocks are one of the most reliable pistols available and counted on by more professionals than any pistol made.


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## tps3443

Finally got the VP9? What do you think? Is the Glock collecting dust? Lol. Is that trigger nice for a striker fired or what!?


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## GCBHM

Well, to be honest, yeah, the Glock 19 is currently riding shotgun as my "truck gun". I've been carrying the VP9 everywhere, and it is really, really nice. I strongly encourage everyone to get it!


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## pic

tps3443 said:


> Finally got the VP9? What do you think? Is the Glock collecting dust? Lol. Is that trigger nice for a striker fired or what!?


Great choice 
Gun Review: Heckler & Koch VP9 - The Truth About Guns
Click here


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## shootbrownelk

Treycly said:


> The cost of ammo is really not that big of a deal, I would like to hear what you have to say about the .40 and the .45. Also, I have hands on the smaller size, iv been around firearms my entire life but do not have much experience with larger sized pistols. I currently own a .22 revolver of my own that was passed down from my father. I have shot pistols ranging from a compact .40 cal to a full sized desert eagle (was entirely to big!). In this pistol I would like to be able to get one that would not be too different for my girlfriend to learn to shoot just incase she ever needed too.


 The cost of ammo IS indeed a "Big Deal" if you plan on practicing a lot. However, if you reload then not so much. Have you ever shot a compact .45? Please reconsider the 9mm.
I carry a Springfield EMP in 9mm. Bought it after selling my Colt LW commander. The Colt was plagued by problems, and was not at all reliable. Your mileage may differ.


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## PT111Pro

I'll think - opinion on,
The 9mm round is a good round. The Luger amo was invented in the First World War and was since than modified and modified and modified...... I'll think that the 9mm is a good round when the shooter is aware of the real capabilities of this round, but it is also at the end of further improvement.

The 40 SW is a new fresh round that has a great future and development ahead.
So the 40 SW is the better more modern round and the problems that many see with 40 SW is that Hand-firearms often designed in 9mm but than just get upgraded in 40 and sometimes even 45. The 40 SW is for me the upcoming round for EDC weapons if used in a weapon that was from the beginning on designed to be a 40.

The 45 is a Home defense round. 45 is also the round of choice where concealment is not the first topic. A full sized gun is 45 period. A full sized 1911 in 9mm is like a Porsche Carrera with a Toyota Corolla Motor. Ok the little 4 Cylinder somehow gets the job done and you can drive a Porsche with it, but -- really?

9mm short (380 acp) and the 9mm Luger are nice little rounds for blinking or paper-target shooting on a range. They could be, when a late modern round is used, a great alternative for very young shooters, woman and people handicapped with arthritis for example. The round is not cheap but lower priced than the other rounds.

The 40 SW is the coming round. It is a fresh modern round that has the potential for development and improvement for decades to come. If the Luger 9mm would have the same potential, the FBI and the Industry would not had have the need to create something new. 9mm is the spirit of the Christmas past, 9mm and 40 SW sharing the spirit of the present Christmas and 40 SW is definitively the spirit for Christmas to come. 40 SW is for me the EDC round for tomorrow.

45 - well what do you ask. In a decent full sized gun fired and hit the target, there is no question after the fact. Great round for Home defense, Boat-trips and as a sidearm during Hunting-trips. 45 doesn't shrink. What else do you need to know?

The golden bullet, the one fits all isn't invented jet. Everyone must based on the own capabilities decide what is right, what is wrong.
I personally carry between 380 acp, 9mm Luger, SW 40 and sometimes in rare cases even 45 acp as EDC. In the Texas summer sometimes even a 7.62 mm (32 SW long) pocked Revolver. AND I feel absolutely comfortable with that set up. 
Opinion off.


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## Warrenzvon

Me, carried 1911 45 acp, in the Marine Corp then gave us 9 mm has higher cap mag for a reason...weak... 40 is better.. Yes middle of the road but if in situation needing firepower 45 oh yeah, recoil not big deal for me.. One shot one kill. Remember this is my opinion and have all 3.. And I don't waste $ on my 9mm.


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## Warrenzvon

Yes 10mm Glock LONG SLIDE awesome and with 6' barrel much more accurate and longer range less barrel rise...sweet


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## Donn

This subject is a well worn path. I carry a Shield 9mm and am confident in it. Then yesterday, the web blew up with the unveiling of the Shield in 45acp. You'll excuse me, I'm on the way to my LGS to either pick one up or put my name on the waiting list.


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## dereckbc

Here is my take. 9mm.

1. A conceal carry gun is one you should practice with often, and that cost money. Shop around and you can find good 9mm practice ammo for 20-cents per round. 

2. Again assuming conceal or open carry, if ever used, is going to be at close range, and likely innocent bystanders around. 9mm will kill someone just as dead as a 40 or 45, but less likely cause less collateral damage passing through target. That is one reason why law enforcement do not use 357 magnum anymore. Well that and most 357 magnums are revolvers.

3. Easier to handle with less recoil. That allows you to put more rounds down range in a given period of time.


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## joepolo

I like the 9mm...

[Post edited: let it go dude]


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## Cannon

I've been using a 9mm for the last 7yrs, was carrying a 40 before that. I'm not gonna tell you to buy a 9 because I do, use what you have as long as your comfortable with it. Hit your target in the right spot and caliber isn't that important anyway.


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## Steve M1911A1

1. Effective accuracy – that is, careful bullet placement – trumps ballistics, every time.
2. Shoot the round with which you can hit the best, and depend upon accuracy to do the job.

A well-placed hit with a .22 rimfire will do more to stop a fight than will a miss from a .44 Magnum.

So: 9mm, .40, or .45? The right choice is the one you can shoot most accurately, and reasonably quickly.


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## tecman

I have a Glock 23 40mm I also bought a conversion kit for it around $110. and got a 9mm barrel for it 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper to buy so you will have 2 guns in 1 .


Treycly said:


> Hello, I'm looking to buy a new pistol soon. Iv decided on either the glock or the smith and Wesson m&p. now the only decision is whether to get the 9mm, .40 cal, or the .45 cal. I want to hear your opinions about pros, cons, price to shoot, best brand of ammo, best grain, practicality, etc. anything you think I need to know about these I want you to tell me! Thanks for the input and y'all have a nice day!
> 
> P.S. This is going to be a conceal and carry pistol.


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## Cannon

Tecman, is there much difference in the way the pistol handles recoil going from 40 to 9mm? Any issues with cycling reliability going from one to the other? Always wondered if there were issues when going from one cal. to another.


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## VAMarine

tecman said:


> I have a Glock 23 40mm I also bought a conversion kit for it around $110. and got a 9mm barrel for it 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper to buy so you will have 2 guns in 1 .


Didn't know Glock made a 40mm

What grenades does it fire? 

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## VAMarine

For those that don't get the joke...










Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## pic

:smt033
Can't dispute the 9mm being cheaper to shoot


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## Cannon

It's one of the main reasons I went from 40 to 9mm years ago, if you shoot often the 9mm is a lot less costly. most every writer & video I've seen comparing the two reinforces the switch from 40 to 9mm.


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## joepolo

I'd love to see the carry gun for that 40mm shell.


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## joepolo

All I need is to find a pocket big enough, and take a loan out for some ammo.


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## Kennydale

I have one (RUGER SR40C) Firearm in 40. I can shoot it very very well. I am saving it in case 9mm becomes SCARCE again. I just prefer my 9mm Glocks. Someday If I hit a Lotto, I might add ,a 45ACP to my collection


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## ybnorml

Just because I choose to carry the S/A XDm Mod 2 sub-compact .40 cal,
doesn't make it the "best for conceal carry." It is what I chose to learn to shoot the best....


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## berettatoter

Now, I only shoot 9mm and .380 ACP. I just bought this yesterday:

It is a G43, in 9mm Luger.


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## Steve M1911A1

Dang it!
That's not a Beretta!

You gotta change your name.


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## CZshadowgirl

Can I give you my opinion? I would get the Smith & Wesson M&P. I have heard great reviews on them. I myself shot a Glock an I didn't like it but each to their own.


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## CZshadowgirl

OOOOOOO I like!


berettatoter said:


> Now, I only shoot 9mm and .380 ACP. I just bought this yesterday:
> 
> It is a G43, in 9mm Luger.


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## Blackhawkman

I have a friend named Sarah. She is a retired school teacher and has a glock 19 that she shoots regurlarly. Sarah says she goes shooting because the gals in the golf league are snotty! Sarah is also 75 at very active. When she introduced herself she said, Hi I'm Sarah and I see you have a 19 also! I put an ext slide release and slide lock lever on her gun. She can shoot! I pity the BG that thinks she's just an old lady. Bad Day. 

I have a glock 21 and a 17, and I shoot them all, but I carry my 19 daily. I went to a tactical shoot and I did ok. I'm not in good shape. Several competitors asked me about using my 21! Hmmm, sorry I don't loan my firearms to anyone I know/don't know. FWIW I saw several Sheild owners unhappy with their guns??? I didn't ask what the issue was, I just shot my 17 and 21. I love my 21 at pin shoots. My 17 did good at the Tac drills too.
Years ago I took my First Gen glock 17 to the now Thunder Ranch with my fellow deputies, and I couldn't make my 17 jam! Got a "loaner" to finish the week(weak?) out. Fun jmo fwiw


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## gandog56

Probably the easisest for concealed carry would be a 9mm.


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## CW

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Dang it!
> That's not a Beretta!
> 
> You gotta change your name.


YEA BERETTAtoter..... Where's the PX-4 SubCompact ???!!!???

And if you traded an 84F for it..... well ..... the Beretta Forum Will hear about this....

I mean a CZ RAMI I can handle, but this hammerless gelded 9mm..... oh the shame of it all.......


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## Kennydale

Being retired and economics limits my choices. If I ever hit a Lotto the first thing I will buy is a Glock G21. I would like to have a .45 ACP. But my main caliber is 9mm.


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## Cannon

I've been a fan of 9mm for the last 4yrs the cost of ammo and the performance of the 9 made it a better choice for me.


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