# Good beginner gun? Look inside please!



## Miles (Aug 12, 2006)

OK, I'm really thinking about getting my first handgun. I've fired the Glock M27 and M17, and I really love the M17, but that's about it. The shooting range is so expensive, and I've only been there a few times. Is there anything that you guys would personally reccomend for a newbie? There are a few qualities that I'm looking for:


Customizability- can I make it my own?
Price- I'm not going to pay more than $499.
Reliability- I hate jamming.
Look- I love a good-looking (or at least unique-looking) gun. Glocks count 
Recoil- I love a lot of recoil (again, I thought the .45 Glock M17 was awesome! or is that child's play? I don't really know!) but not enough to break my hand.
And finally, accuracy- it's at least gotta be consistent!

So if you guys can help me find a gun remotely like this then i'd really appreciate. I don't have a lot of handgun experience, but I can handle a .45, 9mm, etc., so I don't think it's necessary for me to start with a .22.

Thanks guys!

Miles


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## Nathan Plemons (Aug 11, 2006)

Accuracy and a lot of recoil are not exactly going to go hand in hand unless you plan to be able to take as long as you want between shots. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a powerful gun, but a really well designed piece will fire the largest of rounds and eat the recoil so you can shoot multiple shots accurately.

If you want something you can customize you absolutely will not beat a 1911, however there needs to be a distinction in what you call customizing. Do you consider customizing to be grips and exterior "bolt on" stuff, or do you mean customized triggers, asthetics, internal components, etc.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of most of the polymer guns if for no other reason than they all seem to look alike, but that's just me.


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## Miles (Aug 12, 2006)

Is there a specific 1911 you would reccomend? And I consider customizing triggers and asthetics. Actually, I have found the Walther P22, and it looks like a really great price, but I haven't the slightest clue if it's any good. Any thoughts on the P22?


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## Nathan Plemons (Aug 11, 2006)

I've never handled a P22, you might talk with Shipwreck, he's a Walther kind of guy.

In the 1911 camp, I really don't know if you'll find something that will suite you for under $500. Springfield Armory, Kimber, Wilson, Para-Ordnance, Colt of course, and about a zilliion others make 1911's. Who makes a "better" gun depends entirely on your intended usuage. You can spend well less than $1000 or you can spend well more than $3000, it all depends on exactly what you want.

Personally I have a Para-Ordance that I really like, but I'm looking at building one completely custom from scratch, but it's gonna be approaching the $2000 mark by the time it's all said and done.

I'm sure others can tell you who to be sure and avoid, but AMT and Llama have both made "1911's" that are pretty much regarded as junk.


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## Miles (Aug 12, 2006)

So it looks like the P22 is cheap and not bad as a plinker, plus, of course, it's a .22, so ammo is cheap and plentiful. I'll be sure to PM shipwreck. Thanks for your help, dude.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I got your question and PMd ya back. The P99 seems to be getting better. It does look kewl. And, I like the white dot sights. Many 22s have black sights.

But, if ya want something that will probably be a bit more accurate, get a Browning Buckmark 22. I love the grip on it. It feels so good in the hand. I think they make 1 with a fiber optic front sight.


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## Miles (Aug 12, 2006)

P99 is just way too expensive for me, tho... Any other suggestions? I hate the Buckmark style guns (anything that looks like them).


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

See, I hate the Ruger Mark III's, but I think the buckmarks look ok.

Truth is that while the P22 is a "fun" gun, the Ruger Mark 3, Browning Buckmark, S&W 22 will all be more accurate guns. U can also attach a red dot scope to them for more accuracy


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## Miles (Aug 12, 2006)

Is the P22 Target Gun any better in terms of accuracy? Are there upgrades available for it?


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## Nathan Plemons (Aug 11, 2006)

Confused, seems like you weren't looking for a .22. 

If cost is your biggest factor you might look at Taurus. Although some people will argue, Taurus tends to make a very high quality gun for the price. The PT92 especially is very good because it's not really their design, it was taken directly from the Beretta 92, and as such there are a reasonable number of upgrades for it.

The same basic design is offered in .40 caliber as well if 9mm is too small for you. I prefer my 1911 just because I've always liked them, but my PT92 is an excellent shooter that I would happily carry anywhere.


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## Miles (Aug 12, 2006)

Basically anything that fits the criteria, but I'd like to knock that "recoil" quality off the list- it's nice, but not necessary. I said that I didn't need to start with a 22, but it's alright if my first gun is a 22. Basically whatever's cheap and reliable. So how much is a PT92 on average?


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## Nathan Plemons (Aug 11, 2006)

When I bought mine I was able to get the stainless version for a little less than $400. The price has gone up some, but you should still be able to get the black one for under $400 if you shop around. 

As far as reliability goes I've put 1328 rounds through mine since I've owned it and I've only had 4 failures. All of them were feed failures of some type and all of them with old laquer lubricated, steel cased, Wolf ammunition. I've got enough mags for 58 rounds and with any brass cased ammo I've ever used I can pump all 58 through it as fast as I can pull the trigger without incident.


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## Nathan Plemons (Aug 11, 2006)

Just an example, buy it now for $350

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=53637823

That is the same vendor I bought mine from, very good to work with.


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Since you seem to be really pretty open about what you want, except price, you might check out Ruger. I can't address other calibers, but their 9 mms are reliable they are accurate, rugged, and fall well under your $500 price range.

You can get more info than you want at the Rugerforum.com forum. They will discuss both positives and negative, but of course most of those folks are died in the wool Ruger enthusiasts.

I've already put over 1,000 rounds through my Ruger P89 with no failures. When I was test firing to make up MY mind, I had one failure on the Glock, and I shot less accurately with the Glock than I did with the Ruger. Down side? The Glock had more recoil than the Ruger. Which I thought of as a plus, since I wanted my wife to be able to fire the gun.

WM


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

I won't try to convince you of my personal choices but you may also want to take a look at the S&W M&P, Baby Eagle semi-compact, and Springfield XD are all great guns. The M&P and Baby Eagle tend to stand out a little more form the rest of the polymer guns and all are available in 9mm (cheap to shoot), 40S&W and XD also in .45, but all will pretty much eat up the $499 you want to spend. You will not really be able to customize any of them like you can a 1911, but to me reliability and accuracy are the most important things to look for.


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## Thor (May 11, 2006)

Taurus is supposed to be coming out with a 1911. IMO, Tauruses are ok, nothing GREAT, but decent. You can't usually beat their price point, either. I own two Tauruses, a PT100AR (stainless) & a PT145 Millenium Pro


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## bambam (Jul 14, 2006)

Another outstanding value from what I've read on the net is CZ. They're high quality, dependable, and extremely accurate according to owners of the brand, many of which are LEO's. I'm thinking about one of the CZ 75 family myself. You can get one of the new CZ 75 stainless models for well under $500. I'm not sure how customize-able they are though. Maybe someone more familiar with the brand can comment. 

Tom


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

And now your back where you started. Good Luck.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I've seen some M&Ps for near the $400 mark at gun shows - closer to $500 at guns tores, though.

XDs - seen them new at gun shows around $400 - higher at guns tores, though.

Beretta 92 - seen them as low as $409 at gun shows this year. Most shops still charge around the $500 mark or more for them, however.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Miles said:


> [*]Customizability- can I make it my own?


What exactly do U wanna customize?


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

You should be able to find a new G17 for around 400 t0 450. It's a great first gun.


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