# Anyone carry +p in their .45?



## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

Just wondering. You always hear of 9mm shooters that carry +p or +p+ rounds and was wondering if anyone carrys +p .45 

:smt1099


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

How about -p

:smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> How about -p
> 
> :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082


Lame ship...just lame


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## Buckeye (Jul 13, 2006)

Black Hills 230 gr JHP's +P's for the last five rounds of a 10 rg mag in my Taurus PT-145, thinking about doing the last 3 in the 1911. Looking lighter and faster I tried Remington Golden Sabre 185 gr. JHP's +P's but the flash was just BLINDING with the lights on, so I can only imagine what they'd be like in the dark. :smt103 When I can get a hold of some Hornady 200gr. TAP's I'm going to try those.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I see no reason for a +P load for a .45. They will knock down most any human even if hit in the hand. Why beat your gun to peices for another grain of powder.


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

Baldy said:


> I see no reason for a +P load for a .45. They will knock down most any human even if hit in the hand. Why beat your gun to peices for another grain of powder.


What is wrong with having a little more power? You can get a .45 movin over 1100fps and still have it kick less then a .40! I notice a good increse in accuracy while shooting them. So why not?


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

Baldy said:


> I see no reason for a +P load for a .45. They will knock down most any human


~ + 1 ... even just a 230 gr. hardball is more than enough to " punch out " any bad guy. There's nothing wrong with more power but I don't think it's necessary ... :smt023


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

rustycompass said:


> ~ + 1 ... even just a 230 gr. hardball is more than enough to " punch out " any bad guy. There's nothing wrong with more power but I don't think it's necessary ... :smt023


UUUUUUmmmm, If ya need more than standard 230 hardball,pull the trigger twice?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

-gunut- said:


> What is wrong with having a little more power? You can get a .45 movin over 1100fps and still have it kick less then a .40! I notice a good increse in accuracy while shooting them. So why not?


Ummmm, I'm not sure how a .45 +P (185 @ 1140 for 534 ft lbs) can possibly kick less than a .40 (180 @ 1015 for 412 ft lbs) unless you have figured out some way to repeal the laws of physics.

The problem with increasing power is obviously that it increases recoil. Split times (your time between shots) are critical in self defense, whether you have to fire multiple shots on a single attacker or if you face multiple opponents. As you increase power, you reach a point of diminishing returns, where the extra power is cancelled out by the slowness of your recovery from recoil.

Best idea is to get a shot timer so you can see your split times. This will help you objectively decide if some extra power is worthwhile, or if it is hindering your splits too much. An experienced shooter can usually hammer away with decent split times even with a powerful pistol, but even that shooter will always be faster with a gun that kicks less. If you can't make A-zone hits at 5 yards with splits under about .25 seconds, your gun probably kicks too hard for you.

Nothing you can fire from a handgun will reliably stop an attacker with a peripheral hit. Tales of .45 knocking determined men down with hits in the little finger are just sea stories and myths. People have been hit with rifle rounds and continued fighting, never mind puny handgun bullets.

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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> Ummmm, I'm not sure how a .45 +P (185 @ 1140 for 534 ft lbs) can possibly kick less than a .40 (180 @ 1015 for 412 ft lbs) unless you have figured out some way to repeal the laws of physics.


It was the feel of the platform

The .40 was shot out of a glock 22 and the .45 +p out of my HK. To me and the other two with me it felt that the HK kicked less. I could recover faster with the HK. But recoil is subjective.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

-gunut- said:


> It was the feel of the platform
> 
> The .40 was shot out of a glock 22 and the .45 +p out of my HK. To me and the other two with me it felt that the HK kicked less. I could recover faster with the HK. But recoil is subjective.


The "feel" of recoil may be subjective, but split times are not. I can shoot a Glock (with low bore axis) way faster than an HK (high bore axis). But that's just me.

Do you have a shot timer to verify your splits?

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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> The "feel" of recoil may be subjective, but split times are not. I can shoot a Glock (with low bore axis) way faster than an HK (high bore axis). But that's just me.
> 
> Do you have a shot timer to verify your splits?


No I don't. I can just tell ya how it felt. Sorry

Edit: Oh, and what caliber Glock do you shoot faster in then HK? I think that the model 22 has way more recoil then it should. Everything that is in that gun is meant for 9mm, not .40. When shooting side by side the 22 seems to flip more then the HK with me.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

-gunut- said:


> No I don't. I can just tell ya how it felt. Sorry
> 
> Edit: Oh, and what caliber Glock do you shoot faster in then HK? I think that the model 22 has way more recoil then it should. Everything that is in that gun is meant for 9mm, not .40. When shooting side by side the 22 seems to flip more then the HK with me.


Caliber for caliber, I shoot all Glocks faster than all HK USP/P2000 series. My 5-7 meter Glock splits in 9mm are around .12-.15 sec, about .10 longer with HK, and my hits are little more scattered with HK. I find all the HKs (except the P7) clunky due to the high bore axis. YMMV, but in my opinion everyone interested in defensive shooting should have a shot timer so they know for sure.

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## AirForceShooter (May 6, 2006)

nope.
I've found standard velocity rounds work just fine.

AFS


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> Caliber for caliber, I shoot all Glocks faster than all HK USP/P2000 series. My 5-7 meter Glock splits in 9mm are around .12-.15 sec, about .10 longer with HK, and my hits are little more scattered with HK. I find all the HKs (except the P7) clunky due to the high bore axis. YMMV, but in my opinion everyone interested in defensive shooting should have a shot timer so they know for sure.


It would sure be interesting to see! How does the timer work? How much do they run for?


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## ktk2573 (Sep 14, 2006)

Some advice I was given from my local gun shop owner. You should always think what could happen if you end up in court. He recommends carrying the same ammo as local police or ammo that has self defense stated on the packaging. The problem with +p, +p+, or hand loads is that the lawyer will make it seem like you used some super killer ammo. This is the black talon thing all over again. 

Just some free advice.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

ktk2573 said:


> Just some free advice.


Which is always worth what you paid for it. Most advice heard in gun shops is best ignored.

Even the overly cautious Mas Ayoob doesn't counsel against using +P or +P+ ammo so long as it comes from a reputable factory.

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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

-gunut- said:


> It would sure be interesting to see! How does the timer work? How much do they run for?


The timer is pretty simple, it has a microphone and "hears" your shots. It records the time for each (or multiple) string. You just sort of scroll back to see the times between your shots. It's a great training tool, and can also be used for some dry-fire drills.

I use PACT brand, but there are other good brands. You can usually get a decent timer from Midway (or similar company) for $100-$120. It's worth every penny if you are a serious pistol shooter.

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## jem375 (May 8, 2006)

I buy my 45ACP carry ammo from Streichers and they are a LEO supply store and I buy the Federal 230gr HST +P. I think any 45ACP in decent shape can shoot the +P with no problems whatsoever...


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## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

I thought that the original military loads for the M1911 were +P to begin with.

Could someone please provide me with a court case in which the ammunition used played a part? And what law school did Massad Ayoob graduate from?


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

Revolver said:


> Could someone please provide me with a court case in which the ammunition used played a part? And what law school did Massad Ayoob graduate from?


+1

I've been waiting for a link to a valid court case for years. I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for one.


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## D-Ric902 (Jul 19, 2006)

I carry +P TAP 230 grn rounds in a Para 6.45. Just to get the velocity up in the shorter barrel. Believe it or not they acually seemed to recoil less than the 200 grn +P but the accuracy was the winner, 230 grn grouped tighter.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

Ayoob = boob


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