# Need some guidance please!



## FK9 (May 17, 2016)

Little backstory: My dad was/is a firearm enthusiast, but always taught us kids to fear guns. I am trying to let go of this baggage because my life circumstances dictate that it would be best for me to own a handgun. I travel a lot, never on airplanes, always by car, and as a woman travelling alone it seems to me I need more than just my dog to protect me. I have a personal protection K9 but he doesn't have a bulletproof jumpsuit, know what I mean?

Please forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am literally brand new to all of this.

I have a couple questions/concerns:

1. I believe I can pass the NICS. However, I plead guilty to domestic violence in 2001 when I was 19 years old. (I slapped a boyfriend.) That was expunged from my record 6 months later. Will this show up? Will this make it impossible for me to own a gun? This does not show up on any criminal background checks, but the NICS is probably different.

2. I have young children who love to play with airsoft guns. Most of the handguns I saw on my local shop's page look very similar to my kids' airsoft guns. I need your very best tips on keeping the weapon 100000% locked up and away from them - your favorite safes, etc. This gun I want to buy will only be for when I am on the road. Obviously I have taught my kids gun safety but they are young and I want to take no chances. For home safety I have a 12 gauge shotgun that my Grandpa gave me and taught to shoot. The kids are extremely respectful of that but have no experience with handguns.

3. I am hoping to get recommendations for handguns that are user friendly and safe, but not so safe that I can't use the thing when/if I need to. I am on a budget and prefer American made. 

Thanks you so much in advance for any insights!


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

As far as the domestic assault and the expunging of the record, I'd suggest speaking with an attorney to see what is the case in your state. I know you mentioned a budget; perhaps you'd qualify for legal assistance to help answer your question.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

First off welcome aboard, we're pleased to have you with us.

From your post, you appear to be off to a very good start because you are clearly articulate and it looks as though you have done some research... or else you have a fine mind in these matters. I would suggest attending a major gun show in your area once you have some of the basics down, such as terminology and fundamental knowledge, and as many gun shops as you can. Watch out for people who seem to hone in on people new to firearms. They can be full of BS and can impart information that is not only erroneous, but also potentially dangerous.

Define the characteristics in a handgun which are important to you such as size, weight, caliber, round capacity, etc. Then refine those characteristics a bit into action types, whether or not you want an externally settable safety, grips, sights, and a few more things. This will all take some research and product and general knowledge on your part so take your time.

Using this information, make a list of handguns you will want to handle and compare at a gun show or gun shop then do just that; visit a gun show and gun shops, and handle those guns on your list, as well as others if you wish. From here you should be able to narrow down your list to a workable number of guns from which to take your final decision. Before taking that decision, try to rent these guns at a shooting range so you can see how they work with you. You'll be surprised how the process goes and it should be a lot of fun for you.

As for a safe there are a number of types you can purchase, ranging from large ones that weigh a lot and hold a lot of firearms and other valuables to the small safes that will hold just one handgun and are made for quick access by the owner.

You are off to a good start, but do take your time. And do learn how to separate the BS from the solid and valuable information you are certain to encounter during all of this. Finally, we're all here to help you as best we can so please ask whatever questions which come to your mind regardless of how silly they might seem to you. We all had to start from the beginning, too so no question is out of bounds here.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

Howdy and Welcome! I'm sure there are many members willing to help, so be prepared for all kinds of info.

If your issue was expunged, then your record is clear. As BackyardCowboy has said, you'll probably have to check with a court, lawyer, maybe even a sheriffs dept. to verify that fact.

Its good that your home has some familiarity with firearms, so gun safety should not be new to anyone.


Now that your looking for a pistol, I offer the following;

Pistols are difficult to use effectively. You will need range time and will benefit greatly from training. 
Some states require training and a permit to carry a handgun outside of your home.

The safest handgun is the one you know how to use effectively and have confidence in using it.

That said, which handgun is for you requires much more investigation as the grip, recoil, action, application......... are so varied.... 
and you may need one pistol to practice and another one for defense simply to save on the cost of ammo.

That the kids play with Airsoft copies means they need to learn gun safety even with the toys, for some of them are quite realistic and they need to know a real one is off limits.
Keeping it locked in a small safe is wise. And there are many options there as well.

Please explore this forum as there is a lot of info available. Build on your learning and experience and take small steps.

Again confidence is perhaps the most important part of handgun safety. And confidence depends on practice - lots of it.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Welcome to the forum, great advice given so far so I won't regurgitate it.

A Domestic Violence charge is a misdemeanor and due to the period of time, you should not have an issue. Check the law in your state. In many, you can not only purchase... but get a CCW within 8 years of a conviction for DV. 

Good luck!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Welcome first find training, a good beginners class then advance you will get the proper safety training and some hands on which will help guide you to what is the right handgun for you. Also get your children into firearm safety course so they learn the difference between what their airsoft does and a firearm does. There is a lot of helpful people here that can answer questions but nothing beats in person training from a good instructor.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

My view of children playing with guns is somewhat different.
I never let my daughter play with guns of any kind, including toy guns, or even gun-shaped sticks.
She was taught from the very beginning that guns were serious business, could do serious harm, and were not toys.
At the same time, she was always granted access to every gun in our well-armed home, but always under close supervision.

Our guns were locked up, but, I readily admit, in somewhat flimsy containers that she could have defeated had she wanted to.
But because she always had supervised access to our guns, she had no incentive to break a lock and take one.
Also, I took her shooting whenever she wanted to go. Thus she learned about the dangers and the pleasures, and also about the cleanup work which always followed each shooting session.

When I began to compete in pistol-shooting events, she helped me practice by timing me, and later even by critiquing me.
She also helped me reload ammunition, since competition practice ate up a lot of it.

Long before the NRA's Eddie Eagle program, we taught her that if she ever saw a gun in a friend's home, and there wasn't an adult in charge of it, she should immediately leave.
She was also encouraged to "tattle" about such incidents, to us and to the other parents involved. (She never experienced such an incident, I'm happy to say.)
We also told her to sit-out any shoot-'em-up games (for instance, "cowboys and indians") that her friends were playing.

All that started about 35 years ago. She's still gun-safe today.

My suggestions to you:
• Take the Airsoft guns away from your kids, and start training them not to "play" with any kind of gun. Explain that you have learned that there is a better way.
• Replace the Airsoft guns with a real .22, and teach them how to use it properly and safely, and _always under supervision_.
• Teach the rules of gun safety by stating them, and then getting the children to repeat them with you. Do that at each orientation, practice, and shooting opportunity.
• And, finally, _do not lock-up your defensive gun_. Carry it _on your person_ at all times (that is, not in a purse). Let the children get used to this, and teach them not to talk to other people about it. If it is always in your control, it will be much safer than it could be when locked-up, and it will be immediately available whenever you really need it.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Pro-Second Amendment Attorneys -- Michigan
The Shooters' Bar - Michigan


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## drec (Apr 23, 2016)

The first place that you might start is at a handgun safety class or two. One of the local ranges where I live, has different handgun classes; which there might be something similar in your area. Then you might apply for a concealed carry permit. Then after you get though these, you should be able to buy a gun; which is just going to be a start for you to learn how to shoot and more education.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

We tried the no toy gun idea too. Worked fine with the older daughters. Young son?

I knew we had a problem when I found him (3-4 yearold) out in the yard going pew, pew, pew, with a PPK.
(actually it was a piece of L-shaped limestone that had the right proportions)

It would be impossible to keep him away from stick and stones on our farmette so we stepped up the gun safety training - even with toys.
The stick pirate pistol went to the work shop and got a bore, nail trigger, and wingnut lock. It had to be handled properly or it got impounded.

Seeing westerns even_ The Apple Dumpling Gang_ was enough exposure to keep his imagination running. So we chose to put safety even into the play.
It has carried into his real gun handling.

As for the girls, they tried it but when daughter 1 (about age 14) printed a nice 5" group with a 1911a1 (silencing the bragging boys who could barely hit the target) it kinda appeared boring to her.
Both girls are trained, but don't have much interest in shooting sports for now.


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## FK9 (May 17, 2016)

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies!!

I called an attorney who checked into it and I should have absolutely no problem with the NICS. It was truly expunged (which I guess is kind of rare) and we're all good there. My neighbor is a police officer who offers CPL classes so I am going to talk to him and see if I can get some lessons from him before I make a purchase. I am still researching dealers and shooting ranges to make sure I find a good one. There are a lot of them in my area to choose from.

@Steve, I really, really like your approach. I think things are going to change around here. My girls aren't at all interested in weapons of any kind, but my boys, ages 6 and 7, are your stereotypical country boys. Maybe I will switch them to nerf guns and keep anything realistic (or real) well away from them until I am comfortable. We did have the discussion that the orange tips can NEVER come off their airsoft guns and they aren't allowed to aim them at living things. My belief is guns shouldn't be aimed at something unless you intend to shoot it. We've also discussed what to do if they find a gun at a friend's house. 

Anyway, thank you all for your suggestions! Lots more reading and research and learning to do. I have a very long trip coming up in about 10 months, driving from Michigan to California and back, so I have time. (I also read that California won't recognize a Michigan CPL so I need to figure out what to do about that.)


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## Malcap (Apr 19, 2016)

All good advice. You mentioned you travel alone but didn't advise the purpose, so it sounds like for business. You are concerned with your safety which is understandable but using a firearm is the court of last resort for personal protection. Security is a layered process and involves other protection procedures such as being aware of your surroundings, researching the areas you wish to travel to or through, having access to local resources if you have a problem such as the local police stations or trooper barracks, etc. This is a holistic response which does not just fall back upon only being armed. Courses for firearms ownership and safety are important along with courses for personal safety which would include common sense procedures as well as some recommendations you have never heard. Check with your local crime prevention officer for information or the web for women's personal safety discussions. We also don't know the regulations for your carry permit. Permits can vary from county to county. Some counties may allow entire state carry and some may only for that county. The internet is also useful for learning firearms terminology. Add to all of this liability concerns on being a firearms owner. The N.R.A. and the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network are excellent resources.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I would not presume to advise you on your children. All are different, as are all parent/child relationships. Obviously, your children must be taught not to intentionally harm others, and they must know that real guns can kill or maim, just as a lot of other simple machines can, or an automobile, if operated incorrectly, or with malice. That's an important and sometimes difficult problem that you will have to use your own judgment for, and you had better get it right and have a plan going in. Don't treat it as an annoyance that you encounter along the way - get it right from the start.

Beyond that, find someone trustworthy to help you get started, even if you have to pay for their expertise, and double-check the things they tell you, until you are satisfied that they know what they are talking about. Many men and a few women can help you with fundamental things, like safety and how to hit a target, but self defense shooting goes a ways beyond that, and requires a certain mindset that you will need to have to prevent your being disarmed by an attacker, which is a very bad thing. There are courses and reading material that can help you with that.

When buying a gun, use what you have learned from your training to help you decide. Small pistols and revolvers have a steep learning curve to fire accurately, so I would suggest that you select something with a 4" barrel that you can get a firm grip on, and practice as often as you can afford. If you become proficient with it, you might be able to eventually transition into a smaller handgun. Meanwhile, there are very few better weapons for personal defense than a 12 gauge shotgun, with buckshot sized from No.3 buck through 00 ('double aught').

All of these things I've said are my opinion, and you should consider them to be worth exactly what you paid for them. :mrgreen:

Good luck, and keep asking questions.


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## FK9 (May 17, 2016)

Malcap said:


> All good advice. You mentioned you travel alone but didn't advise the purpose, so it sounds like for business. You are concerned with your safety which is understandable but using a firearm is the court of last resort for personal protection. Security is a layered process and involves other protection procedures such as being aware of your surroundings, researching the areas you wish to travel to or through, having access to local resources if you have a problem such as the local police stations or trooper barracks, etc. This is a holistic response which does not just fall back upon only being armed. Courses for firearms ownership and safety are important along with courses for personal safety which would include common sense procedures as well as some recommendations you have never heard. Check with your local crime prevention officer for information or the web for women's personal safety discussions. We also don't know the regulations for your carry permit. Permits can vary from county to county. Some counties may allow entire state carry and some may only for that county. The internet is also useful for learning firearms terminology. Add to all of this liability concerns on being a firearms owner. The N.R.A. and the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network are excellent resources.


All excellent advice, thank you! I am looking into a firearm as an additional layer of protection. I travel with personal protection dogs (usually one, sometimes two), and have a background in personal protection, but never took the leap into firearms. I travel due to being a canine trainer/handler, so most of the time I am here in Michigan, but there are events and workshops held all over the country. I have this *thing* about flying so I always drive. So far, I haven't run into a whole lot of problems, because I research my route carefully and decide beforehand where I will sleep. (Love's Truck Stops are the best, fwiw. Well lit, always active - at least, east of the Mississippi they are. I can't speak to any of them further west.) The decals on my truck that say CAUTION K9 STAY BACK seem to deter anyone unsavory. But now I am expanding and will be travelling in less well-traveled areas, so I want to have that added layer of security.


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