# Target goes gun-free..........



## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Looks like its time for a petition to ask Target to rescind their policy..... Moms Demand Action collect 400,000 signers...... Pro gun people should be able to surpass that number......
Target goes gun-free, becoming biggest US retailer asking customers to disarm


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Now that they've gone gun free, they shouldn't have to worry about crime.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Target caved into the petition from Moms Demand Action.... Doesn't Target realize that there have been, on a daily basis, 1000's of customers carrying weapons in there stores nationwide....... To my knowledge there has never been any problem with the law abiding Target customers carrying weapons to date...... Is Target so naive to believe by having a "don't bring you guns into Target stores" will stop the criminal from doing so...... All target is saying is "we are free meat"......
Gun Free Zone funny! - YouTube


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

As I understand their policy, they are not prohibiting patrons from carrying firearms into their stores; they are just requesting that they don't do this. I would bet that if I were to open carry my sidearm into my local Target, something I have done many times, no one would say anything at all about it.

Still, it doesn't make me pleased that they have taken this step, largely under pressure from an anti-freedom group.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

The decision was made after issues with open carry groups descending upon Target stores... not due to normal open carry individuals (from my understanding).

I've heard large groups of rifle slung activists are the main concern... not sure i'd really want to go shopping with my family and bump into a bunch of rifle carrying idiots looking to get attention or make a statement either... I deal with these types of individuals often. They have good intentions, just not always using the best means to further their cause... and some are complete idiots looking for some sort of "cause" or identity to belong to... and probably shouldn't own firearms to begin with.

They are just asking folks not to carry... not stating it's prohibited.


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## almanor (Jun 15, 2013)

does anyone else see the irony of a chain called TARGET now being a defense free zone?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

TAPnRACK:


> I've heard large groups of rifle slung activists are the main concern... not sure i'd really want to go shopping with my family and bump into a bunch of rifle carrying idiots looking to get attention or make a statement either... I deal with these types of individuals often.


That's just what they are IDIOTS! From what I understand it's legal to open carry rifles in Texas but not handguns which is quite ridiculous unto itself. Instead of trying to screw things up for the rest of us and make lawful gun owners look bad they should work to get the law changed so that open carry of handguns would be legal there or better yet push for "Constitutional Carry" status. I would think that in Texas a "Red" state that is pro 2nd Amendment, this wouldn't be too difficult a task. But not if these idiots continue to intimidate people looking as though they are armed for war. It is also legal to open carry rifles here in Arizona, as well as handguns and I've yet to see anyone carrying around rifles in public. What will it take to convince these jerks that they are doing more harm than good?


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I wrote the following on another gun website. I think it is relevant to the discussion on-going in this thread.


"A lot of the posters on these forums here have clearly vented their disapproval of what has been taking place in Texas with long guns and OC'ing them into businesses. While I understand their concerns and position, do keep in mind that there is a big difference between OC'ing a long gun and a defensive handgun. Many people never even see an OC'd handgun; you'd be surprised how many don't even notice it. Perhaps it's the state I live in but I imagine this is also the case in a number of other states.

Personally I think the good folks in Texas may have been better served if they did not carry into businesses and just got together with their signs and their group of OC'ers to projected their message in that manner. No harm done and no one screaming that Starbucks or Target or Jack in the Box or any other business should ban people from carrying firearms in and on their premises. I do support the effort of the Texas OC'ers to get their message out. I just think they would have been more accepted and better served by not engaging businesses in their quest. They need businesses as well as the general public on their side as they try to get their state to recognize their rights."


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

That was the stupidest way to get their point across. What did they think would be the outcome of openly carrying assault rifles into any business? Nobody in their right mind, pro gun or anti gun, wants to see the public exposure of that scene. I'm sure it made every person in the store totally nervous because when you see an open protest like that, the first thing you assume is that the idiots making the protest are radical activists to begin with. They could have made their point by other means. Now the entire issue of open carry has been set back 50 years by a number of fools who took the wrong approach to make their point. I support open carry, but wouldnt' do it myself because of my perception of that fact that it would probably make many people nervous around me. I prefer CC and do so regularly. Why advertise the fact that you are armed? To the uninformed, those fools came across looking like a bunch of radical Muslims in the Middle East toting their guns around and chanting for the cameras. Wrong tactic, and now the rest of us are going to suffer at the hands of Moms Demand Action because we have a bunch of well meaning idiots representing the open carry cause. If Target or any business goes truly "gun free" and complies with the law here in SC regarding it, I'll comply but likely won't go there anymore unless I absolutely have to. As mentioned, I carry virtually everywhere I go unless it is still illegal under the law here, but to be compliant here, property owners need to post compliant signs, etc. If I don't see any signs and it's not otherwise prohibited, I carry in whether or not I understand they are asking us not to carry in.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree "The decision was made after issues with open carry groups descending upon Target stores... not due to normal open carry individuals"

These open carry groups are hurting us CHL carriers and the shooting sport as a whole.

If I saw someone coming into a store / resturant with a AR 15 - I quietly draw my own gun - keep it under the table, but be very likely to shoot one of the idoits if he made a wrong move.

Why? Because there is no earthly reason for a person to carry a AR into a store / resturant except to do harm.

If I (a CHL carrier) don't like it - just image what a person the doesn't like guns is feeling.

They are idiots.

:smt1099


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

This step, to ask customers not to bring their guns into the stores, is straddling the fence, and we all know what that gets you. I will not frequent Target stores anymore, unless they reverse this idiotic direction. I have sent an email to Target letting them know what I think of their step, and I encourage all of you do to the same. Maybe if they hear from enough of us, they will tell this stupid, anti-liberty bully no thanks.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

dondavis3 said:


> I agree "The decision was made after issues with open carry groups descending upon Target stores... not due to normal open carry individuals"
> 
> These open carry groups are hurting us CHL carriers and the shooting sport as a whole.
> 
> ...


I could not agree more! I am also a licensed carrier, and I can't stand to see these idiots carrying their rifles around town, meeting at businesses, stirring up trouble for normal, law abiding citizens who carry guns. They make all of us look like idiots, and I do not support their actions. Yes, it may be legal, but legal isnt alway smart or appropriate. Time and place should dictate making common sense decisions, and toting rifles around to prove you can open carry is just stupid!


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree "The decision was made after issues with open carry groups descending upon Target stores... not due to normal open carry individuals"

These open carry groups are hunting us CHL carriers and the shooting sport as a whole.

If I saw someone coming into a store / resturant with a AR 15 - I quietly draw my own gun - keep it under the table, but be very likely to shoot one of the idoits if he made a wrong move.

Why? Because there is no earthly reason for a person to carry a AR into a store / resturant except to do harm.

If I (a CHL carrier) don't like it just image what a person the doesn't like guns is feeling.

They are idiots.

:smt1099


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

GCBHM said:


> Yes, it may be legal, but legal isnt alway smart or appropriate.


Yup, it's legal in this country for the government to have nuclear weapons, but we dont' see them parading them around in the general public just because they can do it. Common sense should always prevail. We all know they have them, but we certainly don't expect to see them being carted around on our streets.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

It wouldn't surprise me if those idiots were members of Bloomberg's gun control group trying to instigate an incident to encourage businesses to prohibit the carrying of firearms on their premises. The end justifies the means and nothing is beneath this group of petty little tyrants. Openly carrying long guns in public is ridiculous, unless out in the field while hunting or target shooting as that is there intended purpose. I hate to even suggest this but maybe the practice of openly carrying long guns in public should be prohibited except for on rifle racks in vehicles or on ones private property when used for any lawful purpose or out in the field while hunting or target shooting. That would put a stop to these jackasses trying to make a spectacle of themselves, and if it was orchestrated by gun control groups they would be promptly arrested and we would know for sure who they are and what their motives are. Of course if the practice of openly carrying long guns in public were already prohibited we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place and it would be one less battle that we would have to fight. This of course would not apply to handguns whose intended purpose is for personal self defense. Personally, I would rather carry concealed while out in public even in my home state of Arizona where open carry is legal. I'm just glad I live in a state that allows it's citizens decide how they choose to carry. I own several "assault rifles" and could never imagine carrying them out in public, strutting around like some kind of big shot trying to draw attention to myself. Carrying a gun serves a purpose but should never be used to intimidate the general public.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

An interesting observation. In general, even though it's perfectly legal virtually everywhere in this country, you generally never see anyone carrying a long gun in public, unless you see them going to or from a hunting location, etc. It generally just is not necessary to do unless, of course, you're trying to call attention to yourself to publicize your right to do it. That seems often to be the situation when someone openly carries a handgun in a community for no apparent reason, and gets the public all stirred up to call law enforcement, and LEO responds to ask why the person is carrying. Gets an answer somewhat like "because I can". Kind of like somebody just asking for an argument. It just doesn't make sense to do it and upset the neighborhood when there is no legitimate reason for it. Carry concealed and keep everyone calm and wondering if, in fact, you are actually armed. This entire scenario is the reason why I don't think there will ever be open carry in SC. Too many people would be shocked by it. IT would just fan the flames of the anti's to again cite the lack of need for anyone to be armed. Kind of like the first pushback when the recent concealed carry law was amended to allow carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. All the local papers were writing protest columns about it saying that we'd see "the gunfight at the OK Corral, etc"... yada, yada, yada. Just trying to stir the opposition. To date, I don't think there have been any incidents involving legal carriers in bars. On the other hand, the illegal carriers continue to shoot each other after a night of alcohol and arguing. Hear about that every weekend. Fight in a nightclub at 2 in the morning, guns come out and several folks get shot, etc. When they catch the perp, the charges usually include illegal possession of a handgun (ie no CCW permit).


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

RK3369:
In states where open carry is legal such as where I live no one really bats an eye upon seeing someone carrying a handgun while going about their daily business. Since Arizona went "Constitutional Carry", that is no permit required to carry openly or concealed you do not see it very often. Before that a permit was required to carry concealed but not openly. (Permits are still available for reciprocity) Before that the only way to carry legally was open carry, concealed carry was prohibited. The population here in general is used to open carry. I do agree though concealed carry is the better way to go while carrying in public, even though I personally don't have a problem with people carrying openly. I do not want anyone to know that I am armed. At one time there was a person standing in line that was carrying openly and I thought of how easy it would be for me to take that individuals gun right out of it's holster and shoot him or others with it without him even knowing it. I do like having the freedom to choose though as there are times that I am driving out to the desert where I prefer to carry my firearm openly while driving or hiking on the trails, if open carry were not permitted I would not be able to do that on a public highway. The desert can get pretty hot and a t-shirt, shorts and sunscreen are about the only garments you'd want to wear making concealed carry impractical. If I did have to stop along the way for gas or food I also would have the comfort of knowing that the swat team wouldn't be called because someone saw me openly carrying a sidearm.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I guess I am target free


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

I'm good with open carry, but do we really need to carry our rifles and shotguns into a restaurant or dept. store? How about showing a little discretion here? Just so there is no misunderstanding, I am a right-wing, gun owning(and toting) Christian white male. I'm a retired LEO and I carry concealed everywhere I go, including church, but I don't see the need to carry my AR with me when I go shopping. I understand Texas Carry's point, however, I don't agree with their methods. As gun owners, do we need to be attracting this kind of attention? I'm very involved in fighting for our gun rights, but we need to fight the left-wingers. Personally, I'd go on high alert if I spotted someone carrying an AR in a public place. While they may not be a threat, they will be perceived that way by most people, especially considering how paranoid most people are. Just sayin.....!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

SouthernBoy said:


> I wrote the following on another gun website. I think it is relevant to the discussion on-going in this thread.
> 
> "A lot of the posters on these forums here have clearly vented their disapproval of what has been taking place in Texas with long guns and OC'ing them into businesses. While I understand their concerns and position, do keep in mind that there is a big difference between OC'ing a long gun and a defensive handgun. Many people never even see an OC'd handgun; you'd be surprised how many don't even notice it. Perhaps it's the state I live in but I imagine this is also the case in a number of other states.
> 
> Personally I think the good folks in Texas may have been better served if they did not carry into businesses and just got together with their signs and their group of OC'ers to projected their message in that manner. No harm done and no one screaming that Starbucks or Target or Jack in the Box or any other business should ban people from carrying firearms in and on their premises. I do support the effort of the Texas OC'ers to get their message out. I just think they would have been more accepted and better served by not engaging businesses in their quest. They need businesses as well as the general public on their side as they try to get their state to recognize their rights."


I support the right to bear arms. What I do not support is the right to be stupid. Carrying rifles, especially magazine fed rifles, into public where there is no earthly reason to use them except to shoot someone (b/c their ain't no deer at Starbucks) is simply stupid. It is alarming to say the least. I can tell you right now that if I am sitting in restaurant, and a handful of these idiots just walk in, rifles on their backs, I'm going to call the police. I find it to be irresponsible grand standing.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Desertman, I agree that open carry should be allowed anywhere. I am only responding to the practicality of it in states such as ours, SC, where it has not been the norm. I would also prefer it but here, I am sure that seeing someone carrying openly walking down the street would certainly invoke a rash of panic calls to law enforcement with the resultant confrontations, etc. Changing from CC to OC here would probably not be practical, or at least would require some fine tuning and gradual implementation to calm the nervous citizenry. As I mentioned, the CC law was just changed here about 3 or 4 months ago to allow CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol, and most of the larger town papers were up in arms playing up the pending "shootout at the OK Corral, etc" aspect of mixing guns and alcohol. What the papers didn't mention was that it was, and continued to be illegal to drink alcohol and carry, regardless of whether you were in a bar or not. So it really didn't change anything other than to give lawful carriers the ability to defend themselves and their families when going to dinner at a restaurant that served alcohol. We can now carry into that restaurant, but still can't consume alcohol while carrying. The initial fear factor had non carriers panicked based on what they were reading in the local anti gun newspapers, and our state is pretty pro gun to begin with. I can't imagine trying to get it enacted in a state like Ny, or anywhere up in the Northeast. Open Carry might eventually happen here, but it would have to happen in gradual steps. Too many folks not familiar with guns to just start seeing it as an everday happening. But it is interesting, in the right places, nobody bats an eye, as you say. The employees at the range I use all OC at work as part of the normal routine. You would think they would anyhow, but there, nobody gives it a second look because everyone is used to it. Just need to get the rest of the non gun crowd onboard with being ok with it.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The non-gun crowd will likely never be OK with it. It should be legal, and it shouldn't cause a stir, but it does in certain places. Common sense says use discretion.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

RK3369:
I can understand where open carry could present it's problems in a state where it was not previously allowed. People would just not be used to it and there would probably be confusion amongst law enforcement officials as with any new law. On the other hand if SC has traditionally respected the 2nd Amendment it may not be such a problem as you think. You can forget about New York, they do not recognize "self defense" as a valid reason to obtain a CWP and as such will issue a "restricted permit" which allows for "target and hunting" depending on which county you live in. This in spite of all the bureaucratic bullshit to get one. New York is a "shall issue" state leaving it up to the local licensing officer to determine who gets what and what conditions. Out here in Arizona even though we have "Constitutional Carry" it is illegal to enter any establishment that serves alcohol without a "*C*oncealed *W*eapons *P*ermit", another advantage of obtaining one even though it is not required by law to carry open or concealed. The rules regarding the consumption of alcohol are indeed the same as in your home state of SC. Even out here where we have some of the most lenient gun laws in the nation the news media was up in arms about allowing CWP holders to enter establishments that serve alcohol providing they don't drink. Ignoring all the facts. Yet they do not express the same outrage over bars that only serve alcoholic beverages and it is almost guaranteed that the patrons drive there and I'm sure have more than "just one" drink. Yet they raise Holy Hell that CWP holders can enter a restaurant and have dinner but are prohibited by law from even having "just one" at the risk of being arrested. Now, who presents the greatest danger to the public? Bunch of freakin' idiots! As I've said I'm not an advocate of open carry in public for strategic reasons, and as you've said there's no need to advertise. But it is comforting to know you can't be arrested for it if you accidentally "print" while carrying in public or carrying openly in a vehicle and have to make a pit stop. I'm just glad I live in a state that gives us the freedom to choose. Happy Fourth!


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

And to you. Celebrate all we have to be thankful for, despite those that want to curtail some of those rights. Could be a lot worse were we someplace else on this planet.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

RK3369 said:


> That was the stupidest way to get their point across. What did they think would be the outcome of openly carrying assault rifles into any business?


I'll bet $100 right now that not one of those folks was carrying an assault rifle.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

GCBHM said:


> I support the right to bear arms. What I do not support is the right to be stupid. Carrying rifles, especially magazine fed rifles, into public where there is no earthly reason to use them except to shoot someone (b/c their ain't no deer at Starbucks) is simply stupid. It is alarming to say the least. I can tell you right now that if I am sitting in restaurant, and a handful of these idiots just walk in, rifles on their backs, *I'm going to call the police.* I find it to be irresponsible grand standing.


I would hope you wouldn't do this. We do disagree on this one. I would watch them initially with much discretion before I would take any action of any kind.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

dondavis3 said:


> I agree "The decision was made after issues with open carry groups descending upon Target stores... not due to normal open carry individuals"
> 
> These open carry groups are hurting us CHL carriers and the shooting sport as a whole.
> 
> ...


If I were an LEO and saw you do this, you would be arrested.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Interesting to see the biases here with this hot topic. One might think we had a mix of anti's among us. Now I'm not saying that myself... just making an objective observation.

I already wrote my position on this issue and I have to say that it gives me pause in that I have mixed emotions about it. I think I laid out my thoughts on this well enough not to be questioned. But I do question myself as each new incident gets reported. I do think there is a better way for the Texas people to get what they both want and deserve. I don't care much for "tickling the tiger's tail" kind of behavior when the tiger is a neutral party... at least initially.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

SouthernBoy:


> "ll bet $100 right now that not one of those folks was carrying an assault rifle."


Well not in the true sense of the term "assault rifle". They were carrying semi auto AR-15's with 30 round magazines, were they loaded? I really don't know. I don't need the $100, it's a gentleman's bet.



> "Interesting to see the biases here with this hot topic. One might think we had a mix of anti's among us. Now I'm not saying that myself... just making an objective observation."


I don't think that there are any anti's amongst the people who are posting on this topic we all have our preferences as to how we choose to carry. I'm fine with both. The people of Texas should contact their legislature to allow for the open carry of handguns, better yet for "Constitutional Carry" status. They will never accomplish this by openly carrying long guns into stores and restaurants intimidating patrons and customers. This will have a negative affect as these establishments or corporations adopt a "no guns" policy that would include handguns either open or concealed. I still believe this was orchestrated by "anti gun" groups to accomplish this. I have yet to see anyone even in Arizona toting around long guns while in public. Happy Fourth!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I don't think disagreeing with adults carrying long guns into businesses/restaurants like children pitching a fit to get what they want means I, or anyone else who disagrees with the approach, am anti-gun in any way. It is a reckless way to make a point, and it wreaks of liberalism. There is no difference in that and this idiotic group of women barking demands for businesses to ban guns. One is as childish as the other. I think anyone who carries a rifle, or long gun of any kind, around town to prove a point is just immature at best, not to mention selfish. They have no regard for how they make the rest of sensible gun owners look to those out to make us look like raving lunatics. It's stupid and senseless. Your actions, as a gun owner and CCWer should reflect responsibility and discretion, not that of a renegade. This is not the time nor place for such things. It serves no good purpose for gun owners. The attitude is like the entitlement element of society. "I don't care about anyone else! Just give me mine!!!" No thank you.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

TAPnRACK said:


> The decision was made after issues with open carry groups descending upon Target stores... not due to normal open carry individuals (from my understanding).
> 
> I've heard large groups of rifle slung activists are the main concern... not sure i'd really want to go shopping with my family and bump into a bunch of rifle carrying idiots looking to get attention or make a statement either... I deal with these types of individuals often. They have good intentions, just not always using the best means to further their cause... and some are complete idiots looking for some sort of "cause" or identity to belong to... and probably shouldn't own firearms to begin with.
> 
> They are just asking folks not to carry... not stating it's prohibited.


Agree 110%.


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