# Sticky  Taurus Quality?



## Shipwreck

I've responded to a couple of Taurus threads recently, and I was asked to start a new thread that would likely become a sticky....

My dislike of Taurus is no secret. Honestly, if someone GAVE me a new Taurus, I would not keep it . One only need look at many guns on the store shelves. The quality on many of them is horrendous. One only also need look on the various forums. A high percentage of them have problems straight out of the box, or on the first range trip.

I realize that human nature is to complain instead of praise... But, the % of complaints (on all the various gun forums) about Taurus against other brands of guns doesn't even compare. And the stories of dealing with their customer service are maddening. Sometimes they send guns back MULTIPLE times without doing ANYTHING. I've seen some threads go for 18 months, where a person goes thru the Taurus "experience" in getting their gun fixed. It's just ridiculous...

I didn't start saving Taurus threads until a few months ago - so, unfortunately, I don't have some of the more depressing stories I have read. But here are a few: (Updated - 6-19-20)





 (This is a goodie)

Lousy Taurus Service Rant - Continued

Top 10 Reviews of Taurus International

Taurus POS Service

Rant about Taurus Spectrum and Taurus Non-Responce

Taurus saved me from negligent discharge

Taurus - CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCK!!!!

Dealing with Taurus customer service

https://gunsovertexasradio.com/2012/08/20/taurus-admits-they-suck-pledges-to-build-better-guns/

Previous Blog Page | John Uustal

Are Taurus firearms as bad as they are made out to be? A lot of my gun enthusiast buddies knock them mercilessly, but are they guilty of ...

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1914929

Better Business Bureau complaints: https://www.bbb.org/us/ga/bainbridge/profile/gun-equipment/taurus-usa-0743-100389/customer-reviews

Taurus Disappointment - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus 709 slim fail. help me find a new 9mm carry pistol. - AR15.COM

Another 709 slim fails.. - AR15.COM

Taurus 709- Problems - THR

Taurus Buyer Be Warned - THR

Taurus Quality: Objective Opinions...? - TheFiringLine Forums

Just bought a Taurus 85 and Im having a problem - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus Run-Around - TheFiringLine Forums

taurus repair turnaround time?? anyone.. - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus Frustration and Venting

Not a good showing for the Taurus 709 Slim. - TheFiringLine Forums

My Taurus 709 slim review... - TheFiringLine Forums

Are realy Taurus gun not reliable? - TheFiringLine Forums

Here We Go Again Taurus - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus Question - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus 738 - TheFiringLine Forums

http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/26744-taurus-changed-my-mind.html

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445334


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## donj931

*some are strong*

i have owned 2 compact taurus pistols,pt 140 pro and a 740 slim,i have put over 300 through my pt 140 with different brands no failures,less than 100 in the slim different brands no failures,i have a friend with a 24/7 .40 cal with over 500 down the pipe with no problems,quality control mabye?some are made well


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## Shipwreck

donj931 said:


> i have owned 2 compact taurus pistols,pt 140 pro and a 740 slim,i have put over 300 through my pt 140 with different brands no failures,less than 100 in the slim different brands no failures,i have a friend with a 24/7 .40 cal with over 500 down the pipe with no problems,quality control mabye?some are made well


Fair enough - but it's almost a roll of the dice, IMHO.... Whether or not you'll get a good one or not.

I personally won't take that chance, and would recommend spending a couple more bucks for something else. I'm not saying EVERY Taurus is bad. But they seem to have a lemon rate way up at the top of everyone else.


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## Hurryin' Hoosier

Shipwreck said:


> Fair enough - but it's almost a roll of the dice, IMHO.... Whether or not you'll get a good one or not.
> 
> I personally won't take that chance, and would recommend spending a couple more bucks for something else. I'm not saying EVERY Taurus is bad. But they seem to have a lemon rate way up at the top of everyone else.


I've owned four Taurus revolvers, over the years (still have one), and recently purchased a PT92AFS. I'll agree that the revolvers might not have quite the same "fit and finish" as a Smith, and the 92 doesn't have the same name marque as a Beretta (although I wouldn't turn my hand over for the difference between the two). For my money, they've all performed as well as far more expensive guns. It sounds to me as if someone might be a died-in-the-wool Ford fanatic who has a pretty narrow-minded hard-.. for Chevrolets in general.


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## walleye

Hurryin' Hoosier said:


> I've owned four Taurus revolvers, over the years (still have one), and recently purchased a PT92AFS. I'll agree that the revolvers might not have quite the same "fit and finish" as a Smith, and the 92 doesn't have the same name marque as a Beretta (although I wouldn't turn my hand over for the difference between the two). For my money, they've all performed as well as far more expensive guns. It sounds to me as if someone might be a died-in-the-wool Ford fanatic who has a pretty narrow-minded hard-.. for Chevrolets in general.


It is all a matter of opinion, but I will say I did a lot of reading in lots of places prior to my purchase of a S&W M&P 9mm hand gun, and most places I checked out and most places I visited to read up, all had concerns about the Taurus hand guns. Enough that I would not buy one with all the other available products. I agree with shipwreck totally. But each should buy what they like........ For me, I am going with the odds when it comes to personal protection. Lots of good guns out there with all positive reviews. I will choose from them.


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## bayhawk2

Taurus may be a roll of the dice,but knock on wood,I've had nothing but good
service from mine.None you mention are what I have.I have the .44 Tracker,
The Judge 6 1/2 " bbl.,and the Millinium Pro PT-111.Maybe when I rolled the 
dice it was my night?I have had some dogs in other brands that I got rid
of.Some name brands.I will say however,that I am now a Ruger fan.
My last 3 buys have been Ruger.I really like those guns.bayhawk


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## Shipwreck

Well, we seem to have quite a few lemons here among our own members...

http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/9452-any-taurus-revolver-problems-i-want-details.html


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## EliWolfe

An impressive if somewhat provacative post. It is rare that someone takes the trouble to document their message and your work is an example we all should follow when expressing a negative opinion. As I have said before, I think that Taurus stays afloat because they offer what people consider an "affordable" alternative to other brands. To be fair, you could say that they fill a niche by doing this. However for me...
1. I will continue to spend what I need to get firearms with a reputation for quality. The savings on a Taurus usually amounts to a few hundred dollars at most. My life is worth more than that.
2. My long time (over 20 years) gun dealer has told me that the Taurus semi autos are his #1 warranty pieces. 
3. If the gun is not for self defense, reliability is not so critical so I see no problem if someone just "wants" a certain gun.
4. I have heard and read positive things about the Taurus hunting revolvers. I would still (and have) buy a Ruger or a Smith.
5. I purchased a Kel-Tec .32 with known quality issues. It broke. I tried to save a buck on a Charter .44 revolver. It broke. I bought a Sig Mosquito trusting the Sig name. It sucked royally. I now research my handguns as thoroughly as I can before a purchase. The net was full of negatives on that Mosquito! Unfortunately, the same is true of Taurus and has been for some time now.

In the end I think it comes to a crap shoot. NO manufacturer makes a perfect gun, so brand name guns are not ALL troublefree. So let's just say that the odds on getting a lemon Taurus may be higher than a comparable [email protected] But Taurus would not stay in business, nor have so many supporters, if the MAJORITY of their products did not indeed fill a cost niche in the market place with resulting "happy" customers. How long they will stay happy is another issue.
Eli:watching:


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## skidder

*Taurus vs. ruger*

I purchased a Taurus tracker .44 a week ago, never been fired. I sent the handgun in for repairs today. The hammer was rubbing on the frame (small groove) and the grip had 8 tears between the ribs under trigger guard. Minor repairs but still upset, I have .22 tracker on the same frame and it has been an excellent handgun (a tack driver).

The Taurus quality difference is visible compared to my Ruger Redhawk I purchased 14 years ago. My Ruger has been fired thousands of times and the cylinder was tighter than my Taurus out of the box. Lemons come in a variety of boxes.

When I got my Redhawk (brand new) it would only fire 2 out of 6 rounds. I tried several brands with little improvement. I was ticked off at all the money I wasted on my reloads and factory ammo. Ruger was very little help and blamed it on the ammo, but after closer examination I figured out the problem. There was too much meat on the hammer causing the transfer bar to not engage the firing pin deep enough into the primer. A few swipes with a file on the hammer and it has been golden ever since, but it was frustrating and I had to fix it myself.

I called Taurus and got through right away and told me to send it in. The very next day a fedex guy showed up with a prepaid, next day pickup and I paid nothing. Their quality is definitely less but their support is much better. I knew when I purchased the Tracker it was not a Ruger and the price is $300 less on the current market. ( needed something for packing and the Ruger is too heavy on the hip)

I had to send a Smith in for repairs because it was misfiring and it came back still misfiring, so we took drive to the gun-show. (I told the guy when I traded it).

Lemons come in all kinds of packaging.


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## bayhawk2

I too have the .44 Mag. Tracker.Bought it out of a local pawn shop.Like new.
$369 drive out.I've probably put 500 or so rounds through it.I'm not real
accurate with it,due to it's kick,but that's the flavor of a .44 Magnum.Don't get me wrong,
at 7 yards,the B/G is in a world of hurt.I even carried
it a time or two,but it's just a tad too big for that choosing.Sorry,No
lemon here.


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## Shipwreck

Too bad they locked the thread... This is a terrible situation, though...



> My best friend bought a Taurus for CCW, went to the range and it seemed to function ok. However, two weeks later on December 31 he was walking down the street when a criminal pulled a knife on him to rob him. He pulled out the revolver, only to have the revolver lock up on him. He got into a fight with the criminal, managed to disarm him, but in the struggle in the ground the criminal grabbed the revolver and hit my friend in the skull twice with it, cracking his skull. My friend had to have surgery to repair the damage.
> 
> I'd post the pictures here of him at the hospital, but am afraid they would be too graphic for this website.


Taurus changed my mind - Page 3 - TheFiringLine Forums


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## skidder

Above is my optimistic, before shipping, give Taurus a chance post, but now you can read my "Taurus changed my mind post". Thanks shipwreck for posting the link. I used to read the Taurus complaints as just accidental defects but after going through their whole process they honestly don't give a rats about what leaves their factory or repair department. 

The thing I can't figure out is why some of these big wig media give them good reviews. Should they not be investigated for all the complaints they get?


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## sevenshooter

*depends on the model*



donj931 said:


> i have owned 2 compact taurus pistols,pt 140 pro and a 740 slim,i have put over 300 through my pt 140 with different brands no failures,less than 100 in the slim different brands no failures,i have a friend with a 24/7 .40 cal with over 500 down the pipe with no problems,quality control mabye?some are made well


As Shipwreck said... "it's a roll of the dice"
I called 6 different gunshops and got mixed views. Dizzying.:smt082

I think I'll stay away. The only gun that is ok would be the 1911, only Taurus doen't make a compact.
Winter time the full size 1911's are fine but not warm weather. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## mysterious4th

*Eff Taurus, i love my SIG!*

I wouldn't ever spend my hard earned money on a Taurus. I am a huge GLOCK and SIG fan. I don't understand why they would still produce them in the mass that they do when they know most of their customers aren't happy with it and they have so many various issues. I noticed other guns will have some type of malfunction with it but then next model that is produced the manufacture fixes it, NOT TAURUS!

I just bought a Sig P250 and this is my all time favorite hand gun EVER. Out of the box it was surprisingly accurate, and after hundreds of rounds going through it not one issue.

So in the end i will never own another Taurus, nor will I allow my friends to own one! A real friend doesn't let a friend own a Taurus!!


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## RICK54

I have a pt 99 shoots very good never had a miss fire functions fine it shoots just as well as my friends beretta 92 if you think the fit and finish will be the same on a taurus as a beretta no but for the price differnce I am very happy with my taurus a lot of people who complain about taurus is here say never owned one.


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## Scorpion8

I shot my new-to-me PT-92AF at the range this weekend. Two boxes of Silver Bear and Brown Bear 9mm loads with only a few FTF's at the beginning when I wasn't holding tight enough. All the rest of the clips shot fun with no failures of any sort. On the sad side, my "brand new" Beretta 84 wood grips both spit out the medallions within 3 shots the very first time I shot the gun after installing the new grips.


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## Shipwreck

RICK54 said:


> I a lot of people who complain about taurus is here say never owned one.


Go read the links I posted above and you may change your mind on that statement.

I am happy to hear that not ALL of the guns Taurus makes are lemons. And, I never said they were. But, the problems they DO have, and their horrendous customer service, should give anyone pause.


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## RICK54

Did you know that my pt99 was made in the same factory and the same employees that made berrettas for the Brazil arm forces?


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## Shipwreck

Yes, at one time, a LOOONG time ago, Berettas were made there. But after all these years, and the multiple times Beretta has upgraded and retooled - do you really think it's the same equipment anymore? Beretta has also redesigned the locking block several times, and improved their CNC technology...

Here is a quote from the Taurus website:



> When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally "lock, stock and barrel," to Taurus. Taurus now owned everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force. Taurus was in the pistol business, and immediately sought to improve on the Beretta design, resulting in the popular and acclaimed Taurus PT-92 and PT-99 9mm pistols.


EVERYONE knows how Taurus started making their version of the 92. However, I would venture to say that there was no CNC equipment in 1980 - at least nothing like their is today. Has Taurus upgraded? Probably. I doubt they are using the same equipment. Now, admittedly, the 92 is probably Taurus's best design. It's also not really their original design. And, the quality of the Taurus 92s I have seen are spotty - all over the map> Some good, some not so good. And, go read the links above and you will see the FANTASTIC (said sarcastically) level of customer service they give ya.


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## RICK54

There seems to be a problem here how many PT92 OR PT99 are listed above?


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## Shipwreck

Buy what you want. The point of my warning and this thread was to show that there really ARE many, MANY other better options out there besides Taurus, because their quality generally sucks, and the customer service is as bad as slugging yourself in the head with a 2x4. If you disagree - that's fine. I'm not investing the time to find specific 92 model threads for you. I have already admitted that the ONLY model probably even worth having from taurus is their Beretta clone. But, in general, the fit and finish of these guns does not match that of Beretta. 

If you want one - feel free to get one. Hopefully, you won't have a problem. I'm not saying that every gun taurus makes is bad. But, one can read the above and make up their own mind.

Some Taurus fans will defend the company to their death. And, that's their prerogative. The rest of us just stand and shake our head...

All I have to say on the matter


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## zorba

Buyer Beware: Bought a PT145 in 2003. Wanted a Glock but couldn't afford the extra couple hundred bucks at the time. I actually really liked the PT145 for carry and when it worked shot great. After 300 rounds the trigger broke. $50 in fedex shipping and 2 months later got it back. I continued to be a supporter of thier product until last week. Now 5 years later and another 200 rounds the trigger breaks again. This time I'm requesting they just send me the trigger but I'm told its a restricted item. Now fedex wants $75 to ship. I'll wait until some town has a gun buy back here in the Socialist Republic of New Jersey and turn it in for trash. I will never own a Taurus again. I agree with Shipwreck, mine and my families life is worth more than a couple hundred bucks. I thank God the gun broke both times at the range. Tauras will not admid to a design flaw or quality issue. For a self defense gun you can't afford to take a chance. I've got plenty of guns with thousands of rounds fired and have never had a break. Now I'm looking to get what I originally wanted. Save a ton of money buying the Taurus- not.


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## phillipwayne

My dad has been a gun dealer for 25+ years and says that he fixes more Taurus than any other brand combined. I guess if it's ONLY a range gun and you have the patience to send it back if needed then fine, go for it, you can save some money. But I would never gamble my family's lives on one.


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## Skyline

I know I'm new to this thread forum, but, I still would like to toss my .02 in here... I hate to hear the negativity directed at Taurus, I have owned my PT92 since I turned 21 (5 years, yes I'm young) and I have never had an issue. I have probably put over 15k rounds through it without a problem, except cheap ammo jams. I HAVE used this gun to defend my home before and I honestly believe it not only saved my life, but my son and now ex-wife lives as well. It has stayed accurate and true the entire time I have owned it. Maybe I got lucky and got a winner, who knows? I have a couple friends whom I recommended Taurus to as well and they have nothing but praise for the brand. Would I ever buy a home defense gun and not extensively test it at the range? Hell's no. Will I still stand behind this gun? Definitely. I will defend any product that has done for me and my family what this gun has done. 

Like I said tho, this is just my .02... Take it as you want, but also keep this in mind. A lot of people who buy the Taurus brand are new to firearms and shooting in general. I sure as hell didn't know how to maintain a gun when I was new to guns and I'm willing to bet that a lot, not ALL, but a LOT of the issues that arise from these firearms are poor maintenance. I was lucky tho, my father taught me when I was 10


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## chessail77

I own and have owned two Sigmas and a Bersa all very inexpensive and totally reliable, Sigma had some problems in early production but to their credit S&W fixed them and those pistols are now reliable.....Sig introduced the P250 and it had some issues early on and Sig fixed them and I own two and both are totally reliable right out of the box........Seems Taurus has a quality control issue for it to be this prevalent across so many models....Yes I own a 709 and yes it has already been back for ejection issues......JJ


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## jack76590

Since the shippers imposed the overnight requirement I have shipped two guns back to the factory. Both Smith Jframes that were recent runs of "no lock." Both had somewhat short firing pins and with some ammo very faint strike on primer. But they did fire and Smith send me a mailer via internet and replaced firing pins. All at no cost to me. 

I call that customer service and it is worth the extra few dollars. At least when you can find a "no lock" handgun. 

How much does it cost to mail gun to taurus for repairs? I understand they will not pay postage or send you mailer to send it in for warranty work, is that correct?


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## chessail77

Taurus paid my shipping both ways on my 709 and returned it in a reasonable time ....never said what they did to repair the problem though and I will sell it soon .......


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## berettatoter

I have owned four Taurus products in the past, one revolver and three pistols. The revolver was ok and worked fine for about four years until I traded it off. Of the three pistols I had, two were good and one totally sucked. Thats all I have to say about that.:smt083


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## 45Sidekick

i have limited experience with taurus, i had a old full sized 38 special that i really liked, but i could never find out what model or style it was, i assume it was about 10-15 years old. and i have a millennium pro pt145, which is my current concealed carry gun, i got it in almost-new shape, with less than 50 down the barrel. i have had no real problems out of the gun, except on the first couple rounds that i put through it, left stove-top brass on the ground. now with that being said after about 2 mags the problem resolved itself, and now theres probably around 500-700 through it with no ftf or fte and havent had a stove-top since that first encounter. so i might just have had some good taurus's or the models i've had are good ones etc... but either way my experience with taurus has been a pretty good one.


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## jakeleinen1

Nice thread Shipwreck


The choice is yours people:
Pay 200-300 for a Taurus, chances are if it doesn't fail after your first firing eventually you will have problems over time

Pay an extra $50-100 for a Smith, Glock, Ruger, etc have the gun for 10+ years no little to no problems (used gun in these bands is better then a Taurus)

And if that doesnt convince you, look at the machinework of a Tauras. Not very impressive

Your money folks your choice


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## tom1911sigfreak

Taurus sucks is a understatement! I guess I'm the most optimistic person in the world (just anouther dumb ass really) I should have stopped with the stainless pt1911 that shoots 6 inches too low. Called out Taurus on that one and gave them the novak part # for the front sight to bring it within 2 inches at 20 yards. 6months later no part. big freakin suprise there. well I decided I wanted a .22 revolver to kick around. So I saw this 4inch 990 ss at my dealer. Mind you I love my ruger buckmark 2 with a red dot on it must have easy 5k rounds through it havent cleaned it properly in forever, Still shoots anytime anywhere. So back to my new toy looks really nice loaded it up 6 shots later cylinder bound tight. I had to pull the hammer back and rotate the cylinder at the same time! 

I shot winchester 555, cci , remington gold bullets. the winchester worked the best but still hung up. I talked to a young lady at taurus who told me take it to my dealer he can send it back. I filled out my prelog sheet and at my cost sent it back. got the gun back rather quick 2 weeks with a letter replaced broken trigger replaced broken hand. ok i'm excited its fixed. Not on your life! now it wouln't shoot but 3or 4 shots and bind tighter than ever. called taurus 3 times once I left a message to have a supervsor call me back. I finally got through to another young lady who sounded like she was in a wind tunnel! She said there was construction going on.I asked if Mickey mouse was there working on the guns for repair as mine is still broke. She told me no your gun is fixed we sent it back to you! No you stupid [email protected]@ I have the gun and its worse than when I sent it. Ok we will send fed-ex between 12-5 to pick it up. I told her that wouln't do I work them hours. We can pick it up where you work. No I work for a school system no guns alowed. Bring back to the dealer he can send it back out. 

I told her how about I bring it to a gunsmith local. Yea tell him to call us goodbye. I took it to a good gunsmith and he shimmed and adjusted it and got it running to an aceptable level. mentime Mike from Taurus calls ext. 259 I told him this whole deal he said oh so sorry and we need the gun back to fix it no outside repairs are covered. well my gunsmith called him and explained what he did and how could it have been sent out twice not functioning properly? Well the bill from my smith was $50.00 cheaper than the shipping both ways so my smith asked mike in good faith send this guy something a t-shirt a coupon something he went through a lot he shouldn't have. Mike said so sad too bad maybe we can make it up to him in the future! my smith felt really bad about it and knocked 20 bucks off the bill. He will go far with his work! 

As far as taurus I sold 3 of my 5 and got 2 more sigs! No Mike at Taurus there woun't be a future with me. The lesson learned don't go with less quality firearms! and the way I now look at it Taurus guns aren't that much more cheaper than good quality guns. hoped this saved someone some grief! p.s. sig and cz are great people to work with!


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

i will gladly buy the crappy taurus guns out there..... since they are pieces of junk, i expect to pay junk prices..... please post what you have, and the price you want for the garbage gun you wanna sell. i will contact you for pics and ffl shipping.


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## Cat

:toimonster:


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## tom1911sigfreak

ha the 990 did'nt last 100 rounds! back to locking up again.My smith is gonna try to look at it again, 
god bless him. Hey Ted just cause there junk don't think people are just gonna give them away. Most people work hard for what they got.


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## Shipwreck

jakeleinen1 said:


> Nice thread Shipwreck
> 
> The choice is yours people:
> Pay 200-300 for a Taurus, chances are if it doesn't fail after your first firing eventually you will have problems over time
> 
> Pay an extra $50-100 for a Smith, Glock, Ruger, etc have the gun for 10+ years no little to no problems (used gun in these bands is better then a Taurus)
> 
> And if that doesnt convince you, look at the machinework of a Tauras. Not very impressive
> 
> Your money folks your choice


Exactly - Yet, the Taurus guys will attack ya at some forums for even thinking of posting anything negative about their guns.

But damn - ya get what ya pay for...


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

tom1911sigfreak said:


> Hey Ted just cause there junk don't think people are just gonna give them away.....


i see, they want me to pay for their mistakes...... figures...


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## tom1911sigfreak

Last time I looked at my checkbook I paid my own way. but still Ted it's heartbreaking to pay good money for something and have it go so badly. I now have just about as much money tied up in this little 990 as my cz-75! A bit crazy when you really think about it. I drove 75 miles today, once to my smith he told me up front he wants an hour more checkout time on the gun. At that point I drove back to my dealer and left it with him to send back to Taurus again. Lets see if third times a charm.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

my offer stands, those who regret purchasing these piece of crap guns can contact me and we can work out a reasonable price based on the substandard quality of the weapon, not the price you were screwed into paying.


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## tom1911sigfreak

Thanks I'll think about it. Maybe Taurus will send me a new 990 then I can list it as new.


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## tom1911sigfreak

Hey Ted one last thing. how is it if getting my guns at cost plus 5% $2.00 transfer and 5% to Obama is getting screwed. I've been friends with my dealer a long time when I want something he gives me his jerry's sporting good book the prices are in there plain as day. anything used is $25.00 more than he took it in for. As far as i see it I sold 3 of my Taurus's got what I had into them,and upgraded 3fold in better guns. I still have the 990 that maybe (no will be fixed) by taurus. and a 627 that is running good.(so far) The only extra I put out was $30.00 To a smith that tried the best he could with what he had. Can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit! Oh and just a last little laugh I stopped at my dealer after work for a cold one and he had one of them new rossi rifles (made by Taurus)just got it today, all crome looked real nice felt good he told me turn it over when I did a large piece of crome was hanging off it.Just who does the QC at the factory?


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## rgbiker

New guy from Arizona here. My experience with Taurus Quality?? Third generation Millinium PT745 .45acp 6+1 and PT709. Both bought new, shot and soon after sold at a financial loss.

When mentioning the word in Arizona, often heard is:"Friends don't friends buy a Taurus firearm".


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## tom1911sigfreak

Wow Sorry to hear that. rgbiker. I Like that quote! I'm wondering if the crummy QC, repair work, and lack of care for there consumer is a scam to wear people to the point of selling there guns to bottom feeders that get paid by taurus to do so. Then taurus cleans them up and sends them back out again to new poor souls. Yea thats whats happening. I'm on to it now LOL. I guess it could happen?


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## mnmrosen

I have a PT945 stainless that I bought in 2006. Worked great until recently. My only complaint is that it's fussy about ammo, especially doesn't like Fiocchi. Then... the mags started falling out every time I fired it. Then when I took it apart one of the screws that holds the grips stripped. Sent it back (at my expense - $65!!! - no one there told me they would send a pickup). Just got it back a week later. The magazine release was "damaged", no other explanation. Now fixed. Mags fit tighter, I'm taking it to the range this weekend to check it out.

But I still really like the gun. I think it looks beautiful, it's exactly the right size for a .45. I agree these cheaper guns are chancy, I fooled around with Ruger semi-autos for a while before giving up in disgust. We'll see if it's a long term keeper.


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## recoilguy

I am sorry I started to read this one. I am even more sorry I read it all the way through.
The place some people draw their points of reference from and what it takes to get some folks to become personal amazes me. Start a thread about Taurus quality or Sigmas triggers or Hi Points in general and it normally turns into this thread. I sometimes get sucked in. Not this time I will not post to this thread.

RCG


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## legallyarmed

Taurus quality is a contridition in terms.

Just my experience,


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## tom1911sigfreak

I'm sorry you feel that way recoilguy, guns are a very personal thing. I hope Taurus can do me and others right.


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## DanP_from_AZ

skidder said:


> . . . The thing I can't figure out is why some of these big wig media give them good reviews. Should they not be investigated for all the complaints they get?


Disclaimer: I don't own any Taurus products, I never have, and I never will. Everything "Taurus" has been said in this thread.

Now to the "big wig media" and "good reviews".
In "MANY" kinds of "enthusiast magazines" (and now their websites/TV shows) you need to understand their priorities and how that affects their reviews. Gun mags/shows are no different.
Advertising dollars are "king" in these venues. If you follow certain magazines/sites/shows long enough, you will come to understand what is going on with "their reviews".
Ad dollars make their profits. Magazine subscriptions don't even come close to "paying the tariff". Same for TV production costs.

During my enduro/motocross racing career of 28 years there was a "standing joke". 
In comparison shootouts of new models in the mags, they would tell you what problems with last years model was fixed by the factory designs in their new bike model. 
Uhh dudes, that is exactly one year late. :mrgreen:

If you want a good example of "this syndrome", you can check out the TV show "Gallery of Guns". Lots of good facts about featured guns. 
They show range videotape. But, ALL range reports from one of their featured "gun writers" will report that "it handled well, and shot good groups". Without fail.

Two parts of "what is that all about". First, the enthusiast mag/TV operations are getting free samples for "reporters" to test. Second, they want that to continue. 
The mags/TV shows profits depend on that.

That said, my opinion is that Davidson's (the wholesale dealer) has a REALLY good thing going with their Gallery of Guns website and its "Gun Genie".
www.galleryofguns.com - Buy guns online, top brands, best price, best service, best warranty; all types of guns: revolvers, rifles, pistols and shotguns.

An excellent innovation, and a great place to quickly compare guns, and get "local gunshop prices" on guns that interest you.
My last purchase was a Buckmark. Through the "Gun Genie". My most favorite gunshop got the gun from them, and he likes dealing through them that way.
Disclaimer: I have no connection to Davidson's and never have. But, Davidson's is out at my local airport. And my gun shop gets "4 hour service".

Just my usual verbose opinions. YMMV. :smt1099


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

tom1911sigfreak said:


> Oh and just a last little laugh I stopped at my dealer after work for a cold one and he had one of them new rossi rifles (made by Taurus)just got it today, all crome looked real nice felt good he told me turn it over when I did a large piece of crome was hanging off it.Just who does the QC at the factory?


taurus is the parent company of rossi, rossi makes all of rossis guns...... know of which you speak sir.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

my offer still stands to by junk taurus' at junk gun prices and yet not a single person has contacted me...... looks like the owners of bad taurus' want to sell them for good gun prices to unsuspecting people..... is this the right thing to do? you know the gun is crap and yet you would screw over your fellow man? tsk tsk tsk


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## tom1911sigfreak

Be nice Ted Santa's on his way.


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## tom1911sigfreak

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> taurus is the parent company of rossi, rossi makes all of rossis guns...... know of which you speak sir.


 HTTP://www.rossiusa.com/company/history.cfm wow said here Taurus has been making 3 .38's and 4 .357's since 1997 I guess thats why my former rossi 972 said made by taurus. But I'm sure its all a misprint.


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## mnmrosen

Took my repaired 945 to the range and had mixed results. Mags stay in place but it did jam on eject or misfeed about 3-4 times out of 50 rounds fired. Not ideal. I'm gonna give it a thorough cleaning and oiling and see if it makes a difference.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

tom1911sigfreak said:


> HTTP://www.rossiusa.com/company/history.cfm wow said here Taurus has been making 3 .38's and 4 .357's since 1997 I guess thats why my former rossi 972 said made by taurus. But I'm sure its all a misprint.


your original post wasd refering to rossi RIFLES and now you point to a statement about rossi contracting PISTOLS as proof that i am wrong.... ok, taurus does produce 7 models of rossi pistols but DOESNT produce the rossi rifle.


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## Packard

A few years ago Mercedes have a lot of build quality problems. They would put in a good starter motor but fail to bolt it down properly and it would fail and leave you stranded. They would put in a good fuel pump, but fail to tighten the hose clamp and you'd spill out all your gas and leave you stranded. Eventually they got the build problems resolved (mostly).

I think Taurus designs some interesting weapons. Their attention to detail is appalling. One reviewer commented that the gun he received included a screwdriver for the grip plates. But they included a slotted head screw driver instead of a Phillips head that was required. Does that make it a bad weapon? No. But it is indicative of some very sloppy practices.

I think a management change could turn the existing gun lineup into a good one. I don't think there is any bad engineering going on. I think that management puts production rate above quality. So they are making guns fast, but not well. It is sad.

I had an Audi Quattro once. A nicely designed car, but the purchasing department was either inept or corrupt, and they bought such disastrously substandard components that the car was rendered unreliable (I replaced about 12 driver side power window switches in 3 years of ownership; four radios; 2 windshield wiper motors; two power steeering pumps... but you get the idea.) The engineering was solid but one of the departments sabatoged the entire product. 

I think a similar situation exists at Taurus. Sad.


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## tom1911sigfreak

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> your original post wasd refering to rossi RIFLES and now you point to a statement about rossi contracting PISTOLS as proof that i am wrong.... ok, taurus does produce 7 models of rossi pistols but DOESNT produce the rossi rifle.


 Ted I'd say were about even in this pissing war my view of taurus and rossi and whatever other company involved with taurus is poor at best. I am just informing like everyone else there troubles with taurus. I am still actively trying to resolve my issue's with my 990. I read a lot of your posts and agree with most you write,and respect you for that. With that being said don't try to profit off our troubles. Try to offer some advise as I think you were a FFL dealer at one time and know the ins and out of dealing with the companys.


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## tedbear

I joined this forum just so I could post my recent disappointment with Taurus. As a Glock 17 owner, I know what a quality weapon is. I wanted a small "snake gun" and ordered a Taurus PT22 from Bud's (online) Gun Shop. After I picked up the gun at my local FFL and cleaned the oil off of it when I got home, I found that it was scratched in a number of places right down to the bare metal, with other wear marks. It clearly did not look like a new gun though I suspect that it is. Since Taurus does not provide an email address for customer support (not a surprise), I mailed them a letter and photos of the gun - that was a few months ago, and I never heard anything back. I would have been satisfied with a simple "sorry", or they could have sent me a new barrel and slide - instead, they just dissed me. I have yet to actually use the gun, and it probably shoots fine (or not?), but I would NEVER buy or recommend Taurus in the future, not just for the poor quality control but also for the equally poor customer service.


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## RottenCore

Here is an article about the new CEO of Taurus, He hasnt been there long but he is making som changes!
Taurus: No More Bull | The Truth About Guns


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## berettatoter

Well, the only Taurus that I own is a PT-22 with Rosewood grips. I have not shot it a lot, but the shooting I have done has been great. It is very accurate for such a small gun and so far, it is running rounds through it without any problems. It is strange how a gun maker can make one gun perform great, and the next one down the line not do so well. I think their QA department needs to be consistent with EVERY gun that comes through their area.


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## RottenCore

Taurus won 3 prestigious awards in 2005 and the 24/7 and 24/7 OSS have garnered awards in 2006 and 2007. Several newer awards are fromt the NRA.

Awards in 2005 as follows: Shooting Industry Manufacturer of the Year award, National Association of Sporting Goods Wholesalers Manufacturer of the Year, and SHOT Business Manufacturer of the Year. 
NRA awards were more recent but would have to research ato see which two they were.


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## berettatoter

berettatoter said:


> Well, the only Taurus that I own is a PT-22 with Rosewood grips. I have not shot it a lot, but the shooting I have done has been great. It is very accurate for such a small gun and so far, it is running rounds through it without any problems. It is strange how a gun maker can make one gun perform great, and the next one down the line not do so well. I think their QA department needs to be consistent with EVERY gun that comes through their area.


Just bought a PT709 Slim. Pistol seems solid, hope it does well.


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## Shipwreck

RottenCore said:


> Taurus won 3 prestigious awards in 2005 and the 24/7 and 24/7 OSS have garnered awards in 2006 and 2007. Several newer awards are fromt the NRA.
> 
> Awards in 2005 as follows: Shooting Industry Manufacturer of the Year award, National Association of Sporting Goods Wholesalers Manufacturer of the Year, and SHOT Business Manufacturer of the Year.
> NRA awards were more recent but would have to research ato see which two they were.


I put ZERO stock in these awards after Taurus won.


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## Idahokid

recoilguy said:


> I am sorry I started to read this one. I am even more sorry I read it all the way through.
> The place some people draw their points of reference from and what it takes to get some folks to become personal amazes me. Start a thread about Taurus quality or Sigmas triggers or Hi Points in general and it normally turns into this thread. I sometimes get sucked in. Not this time I will not post to this thread.
> 
> RCG


I agree with you recoilguy.This is the worst thread to read.


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## berettatoter

That's because there is always someone that wants to slam some other guys choice in guns. I own a Hi Point, in .45 ACP, and would stack it up to just about any gun out there. I have ran over 600 rounds through it now, without one malfunction of any kind. BTW, it is more accurate than either of the two 1911's I got, and cost me 1/3 of the price of either of those guns. I have had a few different Taurus' now and they worked great, except for one. I had bought it used, and I had to have the extractor replaced. After that repair, it ran fine. I don't make a habit of talking down someone's choice in firearms, even if I think what they bought is junk. If it turns out to be a bad choice, they will find out soon enough. JMHO.


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## LStetz

I have not read so much info on this thread that i started and some things that were said i would not understand until i even start shooting, as what i am doing is research, now a sigmas and bersa are both taurus models?
I have been told that i will be shooting both a revolver and semi- auto
what have read on this forum is like a 50 percent say one thing and the other 50 % say another about getting a revolver as a first handgun instead of semi-auto, I went over to a store and the guy behind the counter showed me 3 semi auto, 2 of them being beretta and the third one was a smith and wesson
now sense i have not handled a revolver i guess i have to wait until I do shoot one, as of right now it just seems like i rather have a semi-auto after reading all the info from diffrent i tubes, articles on the internet. I have read on a couple of revolvers the bodyguard 38 is one that i would concider getting all this without shooting them, most of the handguns that i seem to like were semi- auto. the big question is why??????

Lisa


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## LStetz

[SIZE=6[/SIZE]

The one thing I forgot to say is that the middle of Aug toward end of Aug i will be takeing a course, and i am trying to get as much info i can by research before the course that way i hope to make the right decision on which hand gun to get and the 3 they i handled i could tell the diffrence between the 3 semi auto.

Lisa


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## Scott9mm

Lisa, everything in guns is a tradeoff. 

Revolvers are simpler. Just load rounds in the cylinder, pull the trigger, and they go bang. If it doesn't, just pull the trigger again. No safety to fuss with. On the negative side, they hold fewer rounds (typically 5-7) and loading/unloading is not as fast. Most recommend .38 caliper as the minimum self-defense revolver caliper. Pistols chambered for the more powerful .357 round can also use less powerful (and less costly) .38 special ammo.

Semi-auto pistols typically hold more rounds, the small concealed-carry types hold 6-8 rounds and larger pistols hold 15-19 rounds. Loading a pistol magazine takes some time but a loaded magazine can be inserted or removed in seconds. Most recommend 9mm as the minimum caliper for pistols but the newer .380 rounds are pretty effective too (but less than 9mm). 9mm has the added benefit of being low-cost for a center-fire round. Of course .40 and .45 caliper are more effective, but also more costly with much more recoil. Complexity is the down-side of the auto pistol; lots can go wrong: jams, misfeeds. failure to fire, failure to eject, failure to feed. Some semi pistols won't work with certain ammo. So pistol users need to be prepared to deal with these problems.

Taurus guns seem to have more quality problems than other brands but any brand can fail. My advice would be to test any new gun thoroughly (several hundred failure-free rounds) before you trust it in an emergency. Be sure to "wring it out" any new gun while it's under warranty or during the 12 month free shipping period in the case of Taurus. 

You can read a lot about guns in magazines and online but you really need to go to a gun store or gun show and hold a gun to see how it fits your hands and see how the trigger pull feels (ask first before dry-firing someone else's gun). If the grip is too big or too small, if you can't comfortably operate the trigger, or if you can't reach or operate controls (like safety or magazine release or rack the slide), that's not the gun for you. Also consider weight: heavy is good unless you plan to carry the gun; then you want light. Bigger guns are easier to shoot well than small guns.

Personally, my self defense handguns are 9mm semi-auto pistols except for the one at my bedside. The bedside gun is a .357 revolver because I want something simple if I need to defend in the dark and maybe not fully awake. Also, the ultimate home defense gun is a shotgun (12 or 20 ga); shotguns are ideal for a defensive position (say barricaded in your bedroom) but they are harder to use on the move (like clearing your home).


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## Shipwreck

:smt082:smt082:smt082


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## Shipwreck

I fixed the dead links and updated some others in the first post


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## tom1911sigfreak

Ha Ha thats a good one shipwreck I did'nt know you were a preacher also LOL


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## celt

berettatoter said:


> That's because there is always someone that wants to slam some other guys choice in guns. I own a Hi Point, in .45 ACP, and would stack it up to just about any gun out there. I have ran over 600 rounds through it now, without one malfunction of any kind. BTW, it is more accurate than either of the two 1911's I got, and cost me 1/3 of the price of either of those guns. I have had a few different Taurus' now and they worked great, except for one. I had bought it used, and I had to have the extractor replaced. After that repair, it ran fine. I don't make a habit of talking down someone's choice in firearms, even if I think what they bought is junk. If it turns out to be a bad choice, they will find out soon enough. JMHO.


I agree. Some were taught social skills while others were not. My"lemon" runs like a clock. I had a c9 that also worked very well. But lets run down the American company with the lifetime warranty because its"ugly"??? The mentality of some people in this community worry me. This whole crusade against one brand or another seems like the work of an unbalanced mind.


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## Steve M1911A1

celt said:


> ...Some were taught social skills while others were not. My"lemon" runs like a clock...


While your (yellow?) Taurus runs like a clock, you will find, from reading the posts of other owners, that buying a Taurus can sometimes be a "crapshoot." Thus, a board or thread that discusses Taurus quality, and Taurus QC problems, can serve as a warning to prospective buyers.
None of that has anything to do with "social skills" or an "unbalanced mind." It has merely to do with the exchange of information, which is a very valuable function.

It's nice that your Taurus performs well for you. Other people, however, have had bad experiences with the brand.
Both of those pieces of information are equally valuable.


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## celt

You and your buddies passive aggressive attitude us very transparent. Tanks for"looking out"for us!(wink wink nod nod)


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## celt

That took three seconds to find and there was more than one page....

Catastrophic failure with a Beretta 92F Need some info. on the 92F


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## Shipwreck

celt said:


> That took three seconds to find and there was more than one page....
> 
> Catastrophic failure with a Beretta 92F Need some info. on the 92F


Guns are like cars - there will always be lemons. I can find catastrophic failure threads on every brand - Glocks, S&W's, Berettas, Rugers, etc.

However, quite often, you do get what ya pay for. If your life is worth the bottom of the barrel gun - knock yourself out. Admittedly, you don't HAVE to spend $3k or some absurdly expensive amount to get a good gun. $500 and up is a good starting point.

As I've tried to point out earlier in the thread - its a huge crap shoot when you buy a Taurus. Taurus claims to have new people in charge which will raise their quality level. We shall see over time. For now, you couldn't pay me to take one. Sorry. I've been buying handguns since 1993, and won't even get into how many I have owned...

If you are a Taurus fan and are offended - sorry. Go do your own research and you will see that just about everything out there is much better. Don't agree with me - that's fine to. I'm not out here to go on a sustained argument with anyone.

But too often people with ZERO gun knowledge start looking based on price - and guess what they often come home with... Then they start talking about the issues. An, as stated before - that could be any brand sometimes... But the Taurus stories that have come up for years and years have shown me enough. Make up your own mind.... But, I've seen enough to make up mind....


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## celt

Condescending....just like a gun snob. Some if us don't have another 200 dollars. I'll not be unarmed because i can't afford better. I have no issues with mine. Always the haters.


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## Shipwreck

celt said:


> That took three seconds to find and there was more than one page....
> 
> Catastrophic failure with a Beretta 92F Need some info. on the 92F


The F model has LONG been discontinued. Replaced by the FS. The "F" model hasn't been made since the mid 1980s. What does this honestly have to do with anything.

I already stated above that: "Guns are like cars - there will always be lemons. I can find catastrophic failure threads on every brand - Glocks, S&W's, Berettas, Rugers, etc."



celt said:


> Condescending....just like a gun snob. Some if us don't have another 200 dollars. I'll not be unarmed because i can't afford better. I have no issues with mine. Always the haters.


I just found your thread about your new Taurus elsewhere in the forum...

In your own thread, I gathered the following info... Let's see - you own a Raven, a Hi Point and now used Taurus. You have owned that used Taurus less than a week, and have somewhere around 1 box of ammo through it. In that time, you've sought out this thread...

You've replied and insulted all of us that do not really like Taurus, and we have some reasoning and facts to stand behind. You admit to not being that knowledgeable about guns in your other thread. Some of us have been gun buying and shooting for years. Hell, I've been in non stop gun buying mode since 1993. Yet, you - the guy with the Raven, the Hi Point, and the 1 week old Taurus, comes to tell us all how full of it we are on a thread you didn't even start...

Now, a nice person would have said - "I just bought a Taurus, and so far, it works great. I hope to prove you guys wrong about the quality - it was all I could afford." But you didn't do that. In fact, you are nasty to no one in particular on your own thread you started yourself... Seems like you just want to argue, any place and anywhere. You have gone digging on this site - to argue with people who do not have a good opinion of taurus - when you have only owned a used one for less than a week....

And, you now call me a gun snob? Yes, I am probably a gun snob to someone who has a Raven, Taurus and hi point... And, I will probably always be one to that person.

You like your Taurus. Great. I am happy for you. But, (on your own thread) you even state that *you don't know if you paid too much for it*...

Don't have much money? Fine, I get it... You probably could have saved and bought a used Glock, S&W, used Beretta, or used anything that is of a higher tier than Taurus. But, you didn't. And, you have what you have. Make the best of it. I hope your gun continues to work.

But now you are insulting all of us who do not agree with you - that Taurus is the most fantastic thing around. I would invite any future members who read this thread to go follow up on your own thread you started.

Taurus owners want to dispute my suggestion that they look elsewhere - go ahead. But a guy who has owned a used Taurus for less than a week (and who is rather nasty about the whole thing) really has nothing much to contribute here....


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## berettabone

Trolls pop up from time to time....they seek knowledge about a firearm that apparently no one else owns....then, when they don't like what they hear, they proceed to bash everyone, about everything,,,they make NO contributions, and have no knowledge or insight.........kind of like a liberal...you make talking points, you give them facts, and they just want to call you a racist, or a hater....to divert from the real subject, which is, they really have nothing to say....they tell you that they have a Raven, a Highpoint and a Taurus, then complain that they don't have alot of funds...even though, if they would have used the cash for the 3, and just bought one GOOD firearm, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


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## VAMarine

berettabone said:


> Trolls pop up from time to time....they seek knowledge about a firearm that apparently no one else owns....then, when they don't like what they hear, they proceed to bash everyone, about everything,,,they make NO contributions, and have no knowledge or insight.........kind of like a liberal...you make talking points, you give them facts, and they just want to call you a racist, or a hater....to divert from the real subject, which is, they really have nothing to say
> 
> *....they tell you that they have a Raven, a Highpoint and a Taurus, then complain that they don't have alot of funds...even though, if they would have used the cash for the 3, and just bought one GOOD firearm, we wouldn't be having this discussion.*


Regarding the first part, don't feed them.

Regarding the 2nd part, AMEN!


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## berettabone

As far as feeding....we just tried to give him some " food for thought"


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## VAMarine

berettabone said:


> As far as feeding....we just tried to give him some " food for thought"


Like the man said

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach"


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## asm

I have 3 Taurus guns: PT1911, PT92, PT111 G2. I have put thousands of rounds through each of them and I can say out of my own experience that those guns did not have any malfunction, they are very accurate, they manage recoil very well, 100% reliable, very easy to shoot. I also shoot Beretas, S&W and Glocks, but I have had several malfunctions with those brands.


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## Kat3eWhit

I just bought a Sig P250 and this is my all time favorite hand gun EVER. Out of the box it was surprisingly accurate, and after hundreds of rounds going through it not one issue.


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## Steve M1911A1

Kat3eWhit said:


> I just bought a Sig P250 and this is my all time favorite hand gun EVER. Out of the box it was surprisingly accurate, and after hundreds of rounds going through it not one issue.


OK. So please post your, um, review on the SIG board.


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## Shipwreck

*Brazilian Police Recall 98,000 Taurus 24/7 DS Pistols*



> The São Paulo State Military Police (PMSP), a gendarmerie tasked with the state's non-investigative police work, have recalled all of the 98,000 (no, not a typo) .40 S&W Taurus 24/7 DS pistols issued to their personnel after discovering that some of them could be discharged without the trigger being pulled.


Brazilian Police Recall 98,000 Taurus 24/7 DS Pistols - The Firearm Blog


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## berettatoter

I just don't understand why the heck Taurus has such a problem with this. Good Lord, you would think their management team would be all over the quality issues asap, before it puts them out of business!


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## Idahokid

I guess its the .40 calibers only.I don't think they left Brazil.


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## Idahokid

Also Smith&wesson shields have possible discharge when dropped issues and need to be inspected.Springfield XD'S can discharge as slide closes and double fire.Caracal is recalling a C model guns with no fix.Just some info.


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## Steve M1911A1

Also about Taurus quality, please read these two entire (short) threads at:
• http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/37267-pt740-trigger-pull.html
• http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/37358-voided-warranty-new-pistol.html


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## jmg

Hi everyone!
Here in Portugal Taurus Handguns are very common. Because of the price maybe.
I used to own a Beretta 81fs and a taurus PT 909b.
The taurus was a nice gun (about 800 rds and no ftf or fte), but to bulky to carry, while the beretta had a weak caliber (32ACP).
I´ve sold both guns and own actually G19 (Gen3) and Taurus PT 709 slim.
I just have to say that after almost 400 rds no malfunction at all. Just a little bit snappy but na enjoyment to carry.
You can almost forget that you are carrying. 
I must also refer to the quality. The 909 was from the late 90´s and had a poor finish/coating and after sometime also shows some rust spots. You can notice that the 709 have an outstanding quality.
Sorry for my poor english, forgive the mistakes...


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## Kruzen

I recently picked up a PT111 Gen 2 9mm. What a sweet shooter. In fact, I now carry it instead of my Sig. This is my first Taurus and I can say it is just perfect for concealed carry. It is small, and handles 13 rounds of 9mm stopping power. I shot all kinds of ammo and never had a hicup. Not one.


Sent from my iPhone using Outdoor Forums


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## berettatoter

Kruzen said:


> I recently picked up a PT111 Gen 2 9mm. What a sweet shooter. In fact, I now carry it instead of my Sig. This is my first Taurus and I can say it is just perfect for concealed carry. It is small, and handles 13 rounds of 9mm stopping power. I shot all kinds of ammo and never had a hicup. Not one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Outdoor Forums


That's cool. Nice to hear about those once in a while! Hope the ol' girl runs good for you. :mrgreen:


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## berettatoter

jmg said:


> Hi everyone!
> Here in Portugal Taurus Handguns are very common. Because of the price maybe.
> I used to own a Beretta 81fs and a taurus PT 909b.
> The taurus was a nice gun (about 800 rds and no ftf or fte), but to bulky to carry, while the beretta had a weak caliber (32ACP).
> I´ve sold both guns and own actually G19 (Gen3) and Taurus PT 709 slim.
> I just have to say that after almost 400 rds no malfunction at all. Just a little bit snappy but na enjoyment to carry.
> You can almost forget that you are carrying.
> I must also refer to the quality. The 909 was from the late 90´s and had a poor finish/coating and after sometime also shows some rust spots. You can notice that the 709 have an outstanding quality.
> Sorry for my poor english, forgive the mistakes...


Sounds good! Anyways, your English is way better than my Portugese. Lol.


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## Babbalou1956

I've only owned 3 Taurus/Tauruses/Tauri? so I can only speak of these: (2) Model 85 in 38 special, I got these around early 90s. Both well made & functioned perfectly. Shot as well as the J frame I once rented, about all I can ask of a snubbie. Only had them a few years. Next was my Model 66 which I got just a few months ago. I was looking for a S&W 686 Plus but couldn't find one so I got the Taurus 66. It surprised me. Excellent quality, snug lockup, well finished & smooth, light & crisp trigger single or double action. 7 shot cylinder. I put a Hogue wood grip on it. Fun to shoot & very accurate. The only thing I don't like is the front sight is not removable so, no tritium sights. : ( I suppose a gunsmith could grind it off & make a dovetail mount. Might look into that eventually. I did get some dayglow orange paint for the sights though, maybe a pic of it when I'm done. Also got a 7 shot speedloader. Anyway it's my nightstand gun that goes to the range now & then. Blued, 4" barrel. Nice looking gun.


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## GCBHM

Taurus has produced some nice firearms over the years, but unfortunately, they have no staying power. Their quality is so inconsistent that I just can't bring myself to buy one.


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## Hauptmann

*Taurus 85 seems OK*



Shipwreck said:


> Well, we seem to have quite a few lemons here among our own members...
> 
> http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/9452-any-taurus-revolver-problems-i-want-details.html


A friend at work has a Taurus 85--the one with titanium cylinder and Barrel (with steel inserts). Not the silly plastic-sided "View". It weighs about 12 oz., fires .38 Spl, and it is his EDC. He has several other wheel guns and semi autos. He about had me talked into getting one, but Taurus has discontinued the model. Maybe they thought it was too good a gun to bear the Taurus logo (LOL).


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## Scorpion8

I've been running-in a new Taurus PT-22 all summer. The only quality issue is getting spare mags. Very study, very well made, very accurate.


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## GCBHM

I believe that the Tauruses modeled after the Beretta are pretty solid. It's their other products that seem to have more of the quality issues.


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## EvilTwin

The good thing about an internet forum is that experiences can help in your research when considering a purchase.. Some times people will not praise a product that acts like it should so more people who are disappointed will post that fact.. That doesn't take Taurus off the hook.. Anyone with any gun can post their disappointment. I've seen hundreds of complaints about ever gun manufacturer out there. 

Conversely, no matter how many bad post are out there... there are thousands and thousands who own great guns from every manufacturer. The warranty period should be the time to vet your purchase.. If you use a credit card to make the purchase you can use it as leverage to return the purchase..

Sorry for your bad experiences, and thank you for your vigilance in making those considering a Taurus aware of your concern with documented reports.

If a gun is bad out of the box and you return it and its not better when you get it back , you tell them you want your money back..
They can't refuse. You can send it back two or three times if you want within the warranty period.. But its your choice to keep a bad gun or return it. 
Bill aka ET


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## GCBHM

Yep, I returned a Styer C9-A1 after the manufacturer could not fix a problem I was having. They offered to replace the gun or refund my money, so I took the money. I did have to tell them I wanted my money back b/c they opted to replace the gun, but in the end I got a check for the amount I paid for the gun.


----------



## Blindfinger1

As I have poked around on these Gun Forums, I have learned that most people either look here to educate themselves regarding a purchase or THEY HAVE A PROBLEM that they need help with.

It would be easy to to fall into the trap that certain manufacturers or companies make an inferior product since the majority of folks are hoping to solve an issue they are having..

Anyway, just thinking.....sorta hurts (thinking...that is.)


----------



## Blindfinger1

*No Gun Snob Here!*

Those that have had to tighten the belt and live on a tight tight budget will understand that sometimes priorities like Electricity, Mortgage payments etc will move in front of the amount of money a person can invest in a firearm. Naturally, it is only common sense to do good thorough research before a purchase but some folks just don't have the income to shop for the highest priced firearms available. Sometimes, we just have to take our chances and hope that some of the lower cost firearms will prove to be reliable.

I had to shop for an EDC firearm about 2 years ago and found myself with a maximum of $300 to spend and that was for holster ammo etc. Many would make statements like,"Is $300 all your life is worth". I found myself purchasing the Taurus 709 Slim. The reviews on this gun were mixed therefore, I just had to make the jump and pray.
The 709 has proved itself to be reliable after nearly 400 rounds through it without one issue. It did take me a while to get use to the trigger and how to shoot a smaller pistol as my previous pistol was a Glock 17.

The only problem I have with the 709 is the availability of magazines. Mistake on my part of not finding this issue during my research prior to my purchase. Other than that, it has been a jewel.


----------



## Blindfinger1

Kruzen said:


> I recently picked up a PT111 Gen 2 9mm. What a sweet shooter. In fact, I now carry it instead of my Sig. This is my first Taurus and I can say it is just perfect for concealed carry. It is small, and handles 13 rounds of 9mm stopping power. I shot all kinds of ammo and never had a hicup. Not one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Outdoor Forums


Hey Kruzen,

I have been eyeballing the PT111 Gen 2. One of the issues I have had with EDC IWB holster is that the weight of the gun. 
I carried a heavier gun EDC previously and because with my body makeup the heavier weight of the gun, I was constantly pulling my pants up. (Yes, I have a very good belt) It was a glock 17.

I am now carrying a 709 Slim which is awesome for carrying, the weight is 19 oz. without ammo. I think the PT111 is a bit heavier than the PT709. Does this cause you any problems.


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## Shipwreck




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## Steve M1911A1

*Ford* Taurus?

Photoshop: Ain't it wonderful?


----------



## Stengun

Howdy,



Shipwreck said:


>


More Taurus bashing from non-Taurus owners.

Taurus basher: I wouldn't own one of those POS!

Me: Have you ever owned one?

Basher: No.

Me: Have you ever fired one?

Basher: No.

Me: Have you ever held one?

Basher: No.

Me: Have you ever talked to anyone that actually owned one,

Basher: Yes, one. He liked it.

Me: I like mine too.

Taurus basher, Glock bashers, etc. are a hoot. They have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but put out their uninformed opinion like it was written in red in the Holy Bible.

A few years ago one of the girls that spent a lot of time at my home ( she was BFFs with my daughter ) who lived with her elderly grandparents ( they were in their mid 70's ) had just turned 12 asked me about "girl stuff".

Me being a mid 40yo married man with a 13yo daughter, a 18yo and 24yo stepdaughters knew a little about "girl stuff".

So, what did I do?

Luckily the 24yo stepdaughter, Tracy, that was married with 2 kids happened to be there that day so I took her into the computer room where the Tracy was surfing the 'Net and said to her: "This is Kaylee. She needs to know about "girl stuff". She lives with her elderly grandmother who isn't much help."

Tracy, as she pulled up another chair said "Sweetie, have a seat and we'll talk."

At this point I left the room, closing the door behind me and went back to watching football, NASCAR or whatever I was watching on TV.

I know quite a bit about the female body but in this case instead of giving bad advice or misinformed advice I decided to keep my month shut and let someone with first hand experience provide advice.

HTH

Paul


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## Shipwreck

I HAVE owned a Taurus before. Years back.. Now, I am much smarter


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## Steve M1911A1

When a well-known gunshop tried to prevent me from buying one of the Taurus Millennium pistols that they had in stock, and the salesman stated that they were poorly made and frequently returned, I considered myself very well advised. I did not buy the pistol.
When a semi-professional shooter tells me that his Taurus, purchased as a test, suffered the unwarranted catastrophic self-destruction of its frame, I can accept that information, too, as a useful warning.
If one wishes to receive an education about Taurus products, one need only read through the comments to be found on this forum. Use the search function, and see.

I do not have to own a defective product, to know that it is defective. Other owners will tell me, forthright shopkeepers will tell me, or I can learn by direct observation.

As I understand the issue, Taurus exercises poor quality control, so buying a Taurus pistol is something of a craps-shoot.


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## Bisley

Here are the arguments that could possibly convince me to buy a Taurus for a self defense weapon:

1. Most folks will never have to defend their lives (or others') with a handgun.
2. There are dozens of happy Taurus owners out there.
3. If it does break, it is the equal of any other gun of it's size, as a club.
4. If you get one that fires every time the trigger is pulled, it _could_ save your life just as surely as a gun that cost $100 more.
5. You can buy 4-5 boxes of practice ammo with what you saved on the initial purchase.


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## Steve M1911A1

Bisley said:


> Here are the arguments that could possibly convince me to buy a Taurus for a self defense weapon...
> 
> 3. If it does break, it is the equal of any other gun of it's size, as a club...


:anim_lol: :anim_lol: :anim_lol:


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## WilliamC

Me, I buy what is right for me. If I listened to all the naysayers I don't think I would enjoy my hobbies as much as I do. If you read the S&W forums, the M&P Shield has problems with it's guide rod. Seems the guide rods have a very high failure rate, but no one bashes the Shield or S&W. They also have problems with the full size M&P with accuracy past 12 to 15 yards, but more of the same don't blame S&W, just go and get an aftermarket barrel. What about everyone that loves the Springfield XD line. From what you see on the XD forum , the XD's seem to have a problem with the safeties breaking. What about Remington , I guess it's okay that the 700 series was going off without pulling the trigger. They killed more than a few people that way. My point is that even the best companies have problems with their products. 
I knew nothing good or bad about Taurus, until I saw a PT111 G2 at my LGS. That's when I saw all the Taurus bashing, yet I also saw a lot of people who liked them, so I bought one. Guess what, it's one really good gun. Since then I also bought a PT22 and a PT845, like every thing about both of them. I have Sigs, Brownings, 1911's as well. I have also owned S&W, Ruger, Colt among others. I get what I like. I like the Taurus firearms that I own. I didn't like the M&P that I had, so I sold it. I liked my Model 29 that I foolishly traded, and will get another someday. 
The basher's will always be there to find a person or entity to pile the dirt on, weather they know if its true or not . Me, I'll make up my own mind about the things I like.


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## Steve M1911A1

WilliamC said:


> ...The basher's will always be there to find a person or entity to pile the dirt on, weather they know if its true or not . Me, I'll make up my own mind about the things I like.


One of the reasons for the existence of forums like this one is the exchange of information.
When a member has a good experience with a new gun, he posts that information, and it helps other people make better-informed purchase decisions.
And also, when a member has a bad experience with a new gun, he posts that information too, for the same reason.
The same is true in the case of a member being warned-off of a potential purchase by someone with experience and authority.

None of the negative comments come from gratuitous "bashers," but rather come from people with direct experience, and from people who have been told useful things by others.
Generally speaking, attacking the source of negative information, for instance by calling the source a "basher," is killing the messenger, rather than addressing the real problem.

If you post a positive review or comment about, for instance, a Taurus product, then you are adding to the stream of useful information. Your positive comment adds to the toll of the other positive comments which may be read here. Then, a prospective purchaser might count-up the positive, versus the negative comments, and make a more informed decision.
If you post a negative comment or review, you are also adding to the stream of useful information, and helping others to make better decisions.

But labelling the person who posts a negative comment or review as a "basher" tells us nothing about the product.
It tells us only that your ego is so involved in your own purchase that you cannot stand to hear any opposing viewpoint.
And that is not useful information.


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## berettatoter

Well, most of my experiences with Taurus have been positive. I have no beef with them, just their QA department. They seem to engineer a good gun, and most of the time build a good one, but sometimes...damn. When one does not work, it never seems to be able to be made right. Don't get me wrong, there are some other manufactures out there that are the same way, but I have to admit that Taurus is one of them.

If your particular Taurus works great for you, then great and I hope it continues to run strong for you. I have not totally ruled out Taurus as a possible another gun to own, I mean heck, I have a couple of Hi Points that run good for me as well, but I am under no illusion that they will not run as long and as "trouble free" as some of my more expensive pistols either.

Owners just need to keep things into perspective, and if you like a particular product, who gives a damn what others think. JMHO.


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## Bisley

Personally, when I'm commenting on Taurus guns, everything is based on circumstantial evidence:

Watching other people's range experiences, and actually operating a few of them.

Listening to other people's experiences, including the ones with positive reports.

Evaluating the experience level of users, in both the positive and negative columns.

Reading the legal judgments against the company that manufactures them, as well as comments made by them.

Gauging how much improvement has been made over about 4 decades - how much better are they than they used to be, and why.

Circumstantial or not, the evidence I've seen meets my 'reasonable doubt' threshold.


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## stickumcap

Brand new 66 revolver. First 21 rounds, and the cylinder lock broke. Customer service was good. Taurus repaired the revolver and paid for all shipping, but will never put a full power .357 round thru it again. I save that for my GP 100.


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## Stengun

Howdy Steve,



Steve M1911A1 said:


> One of the reasons for the existence of forums like this one is the exchange of information.
> When a member has a good experience with a new gun, he posts that information, and it helps other people make better-informed purchase decisions.
> And also, when a member has a bad experience with a new gun, he posts that information too, for the same reason.
> The same is true in the case of a member being warned-off of a potential purchase by someone with experience and authority.
> 
> None of the negative comments come from gratuitous "bashers," but rather come from people with direct experience, and from people who have been told useful things by others.
> Generally speaking, attacking the source of negative information, for instance by calling the source a "basher," is killing the messenger, rather than addressing the real problem.
> 
> If you post a positive review or comment about, for instance, a Taurus product, then you are adding to the stream of useful information. Your positive comment adds to the toll of the other positive comments which may be read here. Then, a prospective purchaser might count-up the positive, versus the negative comments, and make a more informed decision.
> If you post a negative comment or review, you are also adding to the stream of useful information, and helping others to make better decisions.
> 
> But labelling the person who posts a negative comment or review as a "basher" tells us nothing about the product.
> It tells us only that your ego is so involved in your own purchase that you cannot stand to hear any opposing viewpoint.
> And that is not useful information.


Very true.

But at the same time look at most of the negative post. Most are made by people who have never own, fired or even touched a Taurus firearm before.

Basing your opinion on a gun based on someone else's abilities or experience(s) is kind of screwed up.

I'll use a non-gun example:

Back in 2011 the Wife and I were looking for a resort in Cancun for a vacation. She found a place that was affordable and looked great based on their pics but had just average to poor reviews. One reviewer said the place was old and run down but it was less than 7 years old which didn't make any sense.

We ended up staying there away and when we arrived it looked amazing from the outside. When we went inside it was a different story. The outside looked amazing but the inside was incredibly beautiful and even that is an understatement.

It was so clean that you could eat off the floor, the staff was beyond friendly and the food and service was incredible.

The Wife and I was like "What type of place were the bad reviewers use to stay at that would give this place anything except a +4 star rating?!?!?"

We like it so much we stayed there again in 2012 and will stay there the next time we go to Cancun.

As far as a Taurus being defective or breaking:

All manufacturers have what is known as DPMU (Defects Per Million Units ) and no matter how bad you try with you QC you will have a defect.

Heck, one of the knee replacement makers had to recall and replace 100's of knee replacement units ( no pun intended ). You would think that a manufacturer or knee replacement units would have top notch QC.

Face it, crap happens.

Paul


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## Steve M1911A1

According to a press release no more than two days old as I write this, the head officer of Taurus's US operations is quoted as saying that, although Taurus has been having some serious quality-control problems, he has finally been able to begin improving this situation, and very soon Taurus will be producing products of consistent high quality.

Note, please, that all of his comments refer to the future. They refer to the near future, certainly, but still, the future.

'Nough said.

(The comments of the Taurus head officer referred to above are excerpted and paraphrased from the electronic edition of _Shooting Sports Retailer_.)


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## Bisley

Sounds promising...but this isn't the first time they have said this.


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## win231

The words "Taurus" and "Quality" together are like "Jumbo" and "Shrimp."


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## Livingthedream

Will have been to late as far as I am concerned. They have lost my future business.


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## acepilot

Taurus Quality. Is that like Jumbo Shrimp? :draw:


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## PT111Pro

Is that not wonderful to watch all that Taurus haters. 
It’s almost like the liberals. They blame instantly a gun if there was a crime with a gun involved – regardless… Glock, S&W, Walther even HK had Problems. No reaction no one question ever the mediaware, but as soon someone said Taurus weapon don’t even have a problem, they all come out like the liberals and blame an entire Industry. LoL….
Its like in Europe. If you don’t like a Lada Priora, than by a Ford or a Volkswagen. It is really that simple.

It's really and honestly fun to read, at least for me, while packing an M&P 40 the 3th time since October 15 to send it in for repair.

My concern is not so much Taurus then some Idiots in UPS that tell me they can't send my gun back to the manufacturer because they claim not to have a TX license to transport guns. That is really frustrating because I know like everyone else know there is no TX licenses for Gun shipping.
Means I have to go to FedEx what means 22 Miles more to drive.
.
Taurus weapons? What do you mean? My $220.00 111 G2 runs like a champ, has already 1200 rounds (FMJ,HP,XTP) shot since Christmas and no issues to announce. 
I actually like the handling of the PT 111 G2 and 
I like the 24/7 too.

Why? For me is it interesting that no one besides me ever complains about gun grips.
Well it is so that I have small hands. No, - short fingers is better said. And Taurus for some reason just fits better than any other brand besides some but not all S&W in my hand. 
I love my HK's, Walthers, but like I said before, my short fingers are a problem. Sure I learned in the last 35 years to shot and hit reliably with that large grips but if I find a gun that fits my hand better? It’s a Taurus. What the heck why not. Trust in a gun comes not from a Brand name. It comes from repeatedly cycling a gun without any hiccup at all. That builds trust not a Hillibilly Manufacturer out of the European Alps. May they build good stuff, why not, but I have had my fair share on 17 and 19 in the past too. No doubt about that.

Strange enough is, that this high worshipped mediaware gun manufacturers make guns with grips for already south paws and you can make it even bigger. Like Hickok45 (youtube) that is bashing Taurus PT 111 G2 on the small grip and short distance between trigger point and handle, because he really couldn’t find anything else to complain about on the PT 111 G2. 
The Mediagun-manufacturers cut, in my opinion, a lot of customers just out by just ignoring people with smaller hands and fingers, woman anyway completely. Woman even get blamed not being able to handle a gun because their hands often just are that tiny little to short to get a got grip on the handle to manage the recoil. 
For me like a shoe maker makes only Elephant size shoes and blames than the customers to go somewhere else because they just have smaller feet. 
Just me ranting.

And you guys complaining about what exactly? Oh yea that some Taurus guns have to be send back for Warranty?

LoL.


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## Freethought

Uh HUH....................golly TWELVE HUNDRED rounds , oh MY but that's a Good Golly GEE WHIZ LOT!!!! 


Quite frankly I'm thoroughly sick and tired of hearing the constant defensive song and dance from those who have consumed the Taurus Kool-Aid. Yeah " everyone is a BASHER" , it's " all circumstantial"...........whatever. 

They're J U N K............period. And YEAH I have * direct* experience , every damn Taurus I have owned NEEDED that lifetime warranty , they all spent more time in transit back and forth to the factory than they spent getting used , for problems that were unfixable by myself or other certified armorers in this region. 

And don't hand me the " 1200 ROUNDS " crap as if it meant something , I put about 2000 downrange this last month apiece out of two different sidearms , and it's still the winter. Those were just two , testing for function and reliability.

The words CUSTOMER and SERVICE are mutually exclusive when it comes to Taurus.


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## Freethought

Freethought said:


> Uh HUH....................golly TWELVE HUNDRED rounds , oh MY but that's a Good Golly GEE WHIZ LOT!!!!
> 
> Quite frankly I'm thoroughly sick and tired of hearing the constant defensive song and dance from those who have consumed the Taurus Kool-Aid. Yeah " everyone is a BASHER" , it's " all circumstantial"...........whatever.
> 
> They're J U N K............period. And YEAH I have * direct* experience , every damn Taurus I have owned NEEDED that lifetime warranty , they all spent more time in transit back and forth to the factory than they spent getting used , for problems that were unfixable by myself or other certified armorers in this region.
> 
> And don't hand me the " 1200 ROUNDS " crap as if it meant something , I put about 2000 downrange this last month apiece out of two different sidearms , and it's still the winter. Those were just two , testing for function and reliability.
> 
> The words CUSTOMER and SERVICE are mutually exclusive when it comes to Taurus.


 Oh and by the way , in 40 plus years of Ruger and Smith ownership , total sent back for warranty work............ONE each. Thirty years of Sig ownership , total sent back for warranty work..............Z E R O. 40 years of Colt ownership........ZERO , 20 years plus of Springfield ownership............1 , Les Bauer.................ZERO , WIlson ...ZERO , Browning........ZERO , CZ.....ZERO................
...........and yeah I could go on and include Glock and others.

Taurus?..................EVERY damn one of 'em , across a variety of models both in revolver and semi auto platforms.


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## Shipwreck

Freethought said:


> Quite frankly I'm thoroughly sick and tired of hearing the constant defensive song and dance from those who have consumed the Taurus Kool-Aid. Yeah " everyone is a BASHER" , it's " all circumstantial"...........whatever.
> 
> They're J U N K............period. And YEAH I have * direct* experience , every damn Taurus I have owned NEEDED that lifetime warranty , they all spent more time in transit back and forth to the factory than they spent getting used , for problems that were unfixable by myself or other certified armorers in this region.


Sho nuff!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Wyoming_1977

Well, I will say ONE positive thing in regards to Taurus "firearms". Those that tout them as being good are the type of people I don't wish to associate with. Taurus are a good way to separate the "haves" from the "have nots". Some of us "have" good taste in weapons, while others of you "have not". Simple. Nice. I like it.


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## PT111Pro

> Freethought
> Uh HUH....................golly TWELVE HUNDRED rounds , oh MY but that's a Good Golly GEE WHIZ LOT!!!


What ???? 1200 rounds are too much? How many rounds do you shoot in a month? I mean how do you know that your gun cycles if you don't shoot them? No wonder you count all that guns (btw I could count more LoL) without any problems when you shoot only every other year a round through it. I'll think I shoot average 800-900 rounds every month with my Hand Firearms and about 30-40 trough my single bolt action 308 win. 
Firearms and shooting is my hobby. I shoot on one Saturday on the range often 500-600 rounds. Just for fun and my Carry Gun must cycle at least 100 rounds every month. And the rounds have to be at least two magazines XTP defence bullets. I wanna make sure they cycle reliably. And am at least 1 times a week on the range if I can and I have a behind the house a 20 yard stand too.

How fast that goes only for example today. A friend called me, told me I should stop on my way home because he got finally his long awaited Bulgarian Makarov. 
Sure I stopped and we shoot side by side, he his new Makarov I my today's carry a M&P9 Shield. I blow almost 300 rounds at the wall. That means that gun was shot this month about 700 times. So what is 1200 rounds?

Like I said before if you buy a gun and shoot it all anniverary once or twice I am not surprised that you A) don't have any problems with your media guns and B) you wonder how a gun could have 1200 rounds in short 3 months.

At the moment I shoot in the main time: H&K P 30SK 9mm, Taurus PT 111 G2 9mm, Shield 9 and a M&P 40.
I actually couldn't help myself and brought on Saturday a Taurus 85 2" in 38 special home. I may be shoot them now too. But first I have to buy ammo for that thing.
Bad news is that I spend easy $500.00 for ammo a month. But well - others buying auto parts for thousands, so...



> Freethought
> Taurus?..................EVERY damn one of 'em , across a variety of models both in revolver and semi auto platforms


WoW. Honestly in that case, I would not buy any further guns from that brand.


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## Shipwreck

PT111Pro said:


> What ???? 1200 rounds are too much? How many rounds do you shoot in a month? I mean how do you know that your gun cycles if you don't shoot them? No wonder you count all that guns (btw I could count more LoL) without any problems when you shoot only every other year a round through it. I'll think I shoot average 800-900 rounds every month with my Hand Firearms and about 30-40 trough my single bolt action 308 win.
> Firearms and shooting is my hobby. I shoot on one Saturday on the range often 500-600 rounds. Just for fun and my Carry Gun must cycle at least 100 rounds every month. And the rounds have to be at least two magazines XTP defence bullets. I wanna make sure they cycle reliably. And am at least 1 times a week on the range if I can and I have a behind the house a 20 yard stand too.
> 
> How fast that goes only for example today. A friend called me, told me I should stop on my way home because he got finally his long awaited Bulgarian Makarov.
> Sure I stopped and we shoot side by side, he his new Makarov I my today's carry a M&P9 Shield. I blow almost 300 rounds at the wall. That means that gun was shot this month about 700 times. So what is 1200 rounds?
> 
> Like I said before if you buy a gun and shoot it all anniverary once or twice I am not surprised that you A) don't have any problems with your media guns and B) you wonder how a gun could have 1200 rounds in short 3 months.
> 
> At the moment I shoot in the main time: H&K P 30SK 9mm, Taurus PT 111 G2 9mm, Shield 9 and a M&P 40.
> I actually couldn't help myself and brought on Saturday a Taurus 85 2" in 38 special home. I may be shoot them now too. But first I have to buy ammo for that thing.
> Bad news is that I spend easy $500.00 for ammo a month. But well - others buying auto parts for thousands, so...
> 
> WoW. Honestly in that case, I would not buy any further guns from that brand.


I think you misread his post entirely. He stated he shoots a LOT of rounds.


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## PT111Pro

OK thanx for clearing that up, may deleting that post to avoid misunderstandings?
If not..
Sorry Freethought I didn't mean to offend you.


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## Freethought

PT111Pro said:


> What ???? 1200 rounds are too much? How many rounds do you shoot in a month?


 You already came back and cleared up your misunderstanding of what I posted. To elaborate a bit , I put 2000 rounds each downrange this month just out of two sidearms , that's of course not counting long guns or the rest of the sidearms here. And that's in a winter month , I shoot more than the average individual. Which is of course the reason for a Dillon 550 and a couple of Rockchucker setups.

As regards Taurus , nope I will never own another one , I won't even take one in trade. If they happen to be a given individuals cup of meat and work out well for 'em , that's fine.......that said *every* example of a Taurus that I have owned has been an execrable example of an alleged firearm. But then perhaps I expect more from a firearm than most end users do.

And no I am not a " brand snob" , if it works it works , after all I have what is likely the worlds only well running Spanish manufacture Llama 1911 ( mid '50s) , now retired with a cracked frame after 35 thousand plus rounds in my hands. Did it use some parts over the decades , yes it did all for maintenance purposes , during those decades of usage it had exactly two (2) failures , both FTEs and both attributable to *me* and over-extending the life cycle of the casings involved.

Perhaps my stance could be considered " hardcore" , but if one is going to utilise a firearm of any type for defensive purpose *especially defensive carry* then one is possibly betting ones LIFE upon the function of said firearm. It *cannot* fail. I don't even carry magazines that I have not tested for function with the specific carry ammunition that will be utilised , nor will I carry any new " latest and greatest" ammunition with out testing it prior to using it for said purpose.

As I stated , my attitude may be a bit hardcore , but then I won't bet to an inside straight either.


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## Aquarian4u

Taurus .357 Tracker (#627049) Ammunition Requirements from the 1970's. Recently acquired this pistol (new) and have had nothing but aggravation for its' fussy appetite for ammunition. Pistol will not accept anything but pricey American ammunition. According to Taurus, pistol will not accept any ammunition which is not SAAMI approved. Attempted to use both GECO and TULAMMO with problems. Taurus refuses to reengineer the revolver cylinders, allowing usage of a wide variety of ammunition within the marketplace. If one was to purchase a competitive brand of revolvers (S&W, Ruger, Colt,etc.) you have no problems using any type of ammunition. The pistol was sent back to Taurus twice with an explanation of "nothing wrong with pistol". Save your money and DO NOT PURCHASE a Taurus Revolver. Too many other brands of revolvers which will allow wide usage of newer ammunition now available in marketplace.


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## Shipwreck

I looked up in the dictionary today - the word "oxymoron."

It directed me to the title of this thread. The words "Taurus" and "Quality" are a fantastic example of an oxymoron :smt082:smt082:smt082


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## Livingthedream

I was just browsing different forums in regards to the trigger safety breaking issue with the g2 witch I am currently dealing with. Came across taurusarmed.net forum and was reading some of the posts. Man are those folks bias toward Taurus . If you give any negative feedback on your personal experience in regards to your Taurus problems the moderators ban you. My experience with Taurus has been nothing but negative. You get what you pay for. Spend $200.on a gun and get plastic sights, plastic guide rod tube and a broken trigger safety blade after 300 rounds. I should also mention horrible customer service. Was told the wait for my repair will be up to 12 weeks part not available.
Will never recommend or purchase another Taurus . Forgot to mention the poor fitting magazines that wiggle when inserted.


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## jmg

Hello from Portugal. 
First taurus I owned was a pt909 (17 rds capacity). A very big (and heavy ) gun, quite accurate and with only one malfunction in 4 years: once, the magazine release button just flew away from the gun... After searching for almost 3 hours I managed to find the button, a screw and a spring. I fixed it myself but I have to change the screw for another one bigger. Then I traded it for a 709 slim. No malfunctions at all, easy to carry and conceal but quite inaccurate and with a terrible trigger. So I traded it for a 741 32h&r (plus some cash) and I have to say that I'm very pleaed with it (amazing trigger). And this is my story with Taurus brand. Don't forget that who bought Taurus are usually people like me that have to really look at the price before buying. When I purchase the 709, if I had the money I would have certainly buy a PPS or sig p938 (that I love very much).


----------



## Steve M1911A1

jmg said:


> ...Don't forget that who bought Taurus are usually people like me that have to really look at the price before buying...


What that says to me is that _Taurus has a duty and a responsibility to sell the best possible weapon for the money_ that the customer is spending.
The difficulty is that Taurus products are not uniformly reliable, so the customer never knows whether or not the gun he's buying is a good value. Instead, it may be unreliable junk.


----------



## Wont

Years ago I bought a PT99AFS. In the first 1000 or so rounds the breach block broke. I called Taurus and they shipped me a replacement no problem. Since then I have purchased 2 additional guns that have not lived up to expectation. The latest is a TCP 738 that I needed to send in for warranty repair. After waiting approx 6 weeks and not hearing anything from them I decided to contact them through their online chat. What I found out was the weapon was un-repairable and they were waiting for me to send them an FFL so they could replace it. When I asked them how they attempted to contact me for this information I was told "We don't contact the owners of the gun, we wait for them to check status". I have the FFL sent over and verify they get through the website. 2 Weeks go by and I check on it again only to be told that "The gun is on back order and there is no estimated date" and that the people that process the replacements are at gun show so it would be the next week before they would get to it.

Long story short I still don't have my gun and evidently Taurus does not refund money for defective product. I will not purchase another Taurus ever again. It's one thing for to have something break and have to send it in under warranty, but the customer service and lack of communication is beyond terrible.

If you're thinking of buying a Taurus DON'T!


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## berettatoter

Wont said:


> Years ago I bought a PT99AFS. In the first 1000 or so rounds the breach block broke. I called Taurus and they shipped me a replacement no problem. Since then I have purchased 2 additional guns that have not lived up to expectation. The latest is a TCP 738 that I needed to send in for warranty repair. After waiting approx 6 weeks and not hearing anything from them I decided to contact them through their online chat. What I found out was the weapon was un-repairable and they were waiting for me to send them an FFL so they could replace it. When I asked them how they attempted to contact me for this information I was told "We don't contact the owners of the gun, we wait for them to check status". I have the FFL sent over and verify they get through the website. 2 Weeks go by and I check on it again only to be told that "The gun is on back order and there is no estimated date" and that the people that process the replacements are at gun show so it would be the next week before they would get to it.
> 
> Long story short I still don't have my gun and evidently Taurus does not refund money for defective product. I will not purchase another Taurus ever again. It's one thing for to have something break and have to send it in under warranty, but the customer service and lack of communication is beyond terrible.
> 
> If you're thinking of buying a Taurus DON'T!


Their CS is terrible, I will give you that, but lately it seems other makers are having some issues as well. I hear S&W is starting to tick off people with their CS as well.


----------



## Cannon

Berettatoter, I don't think there's a gun manufacturer that hasn't had issues with CS or a perceived issue with CS PERIOD. Everyone wants a quick repair and return and so do the gun makers but when a part needs to be redesigned or the part is a safety issue you know their going to keep the gun til they design & test the part makes no difference if the gun is Taurus, Ruger, S&W or any other brand if they didn't they would be sued til hell froze over, for knowingly returning a gun that they knew had a safety issue. Taurus, S&W and Springfield did the right thing in waiting til they had a redesigned part before returning those guns. No one likes to wait but sometimes it can't be helped.


----------



## VAMarine

Cannon said:


> Berettatoter, I don't think there's a gun manufacturer that hasn't had issues with CS or a perceived issue with CS PERIOD. Everyone wants a quick repair and return and so do the gun makers but when a part needs to be redesigned or the part is a safety issue you know their going to keep the gun til they design & test the part makes no difference if the gun is Taurus, Ruger, S&W or any other brand if they didn't they would be sued til hell froze over, for knowingly returning a gun that they knew had a safety issue. Taurus, S&W and Springfield did the right thing in waiting til they had a redesigned part before returning those guns. No one likes to wait but sometimes it can't be helped.


No, but not many of them have HISTORY of shoddy guns and bad CS.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## Richard373

I own Pt92 Taurus and Pt809 Taurus took both out door rang test shoot them for first time. They both perform well with one issue I was shooting cheap Federal 9mm aluminum case 115gr ammo only issue happen Pt809 prime on some round would not go off one first strike happen four time all had do pull double action trigger witch fire any four round did go off from first prime strike witch blame ammo bad primes for not Pt809. My Taurus Pt92 worked great shoot 250 round I put through at point aim. I am very happy how thing went with my Taurus firearms. The two photo below are both handguns that own.


----------



## tjsahara00

Earlier this year I bought a Pt740 slim and a Pt809. 
Both shot really good. Same with the cheap ammo
on my Pt809 a few non fires then pulled trigger again.
I cc back and forth between a Ruger LC9s and the 
Pt 740 slim. I tried carrying the 809 but felt it was 
to noticeable. I just sold it and bought Pt111 G2.
Going to the range this afternoon to see how it does.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Richard373 said:


> I own...Pt809 Taurus...with one issue I was shooting cheap Federal 9mm aluminum case 115gr ammo only issue happen Pt809 prime on some round would not go off one first strike happen four time all had do pull double action trigger witch fire any four round did go off from first prime strike witch blame ammo bad primes...





tjsahara00 said:


> Earlier this year I bought...a Pt809...
> on my Pt809 a few non fires then pulled trigger again...


Do I understand that you're both saying that when you pull that trigger, it sometimes won't fire the cartridge in its chamber?
And that you're both willing to trust your life to this only-occasionally-functional defensive weapon?


----------



## tjsahara00

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Do I understand that you're both saying that when you pull that trigger, it sometimes won't fire the cartridge in its chamber?
> And that you're both willing to trust your life to this only-occasionally-functional defensive weapon?


Do I understand that you didn't read where I sold the 809??


----------



## joepolo

It's a Taurus thing Steve never the gun always the shooter. When the safety triggers broke wasn't the trigger it was the way people shoot them.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

tjsahara00 said:


> Do I understand that you didn't read where I sold the 809??


My apologies.
I was addressing two separate postings in one answer.


----------



## tjsahara00

That's cool......
Gotta luv the hardheaded learn at your own cost fools...right
Looks like I might learn the hard way with the Taurus brand.
I have a lot to learn with guns...got to start somewhere.


----------



## desertman

tjsahara00 said:


> That's cool......
> Gotta luv the hardheaded learn at your own cost fools...right
> Looks like I might learn the hard way with the Taurus brand.
> I have a lot to learn with guns...*got to start somewhere.*


Get a Glock. They're affordable and most of the nations police departments use and stake their lives on them. What better endorsement than that? Is it my favorite? I'm more of an HK or SIG fan, however they cost a considerable amount more. That being said a Glock should last you a lifetime, they are easy to work on should anything ever go wrong. There are God only knows how many aftermarket parts and accessories available for them. And most important they go "bang" and "eject" every time you squeeze the trigger. Are they 100% perfect? Nothing is. However you rarely hear of anyone having a problem with one. If there is it's usually ammo related.


----------



## PlaneGuy

*Your products have all been recalled!*



donj931 said:


> i have owned 2 compact taurus pistols,pt 140 pro and a 740 slim,i have put over 300 through my pt 140 with different brands no failures,less than 100 in the slim different brands no failures,i have a friend with a 24/7 .40 cal with over 500 down the pipe with no problems,quality control mabye?some are made well


That's what I thought about my PT-145 when I first bought it... However, that weapon, along with your PT-140 have ALL been recalled (as was your friend's 24/7) due to a manufacturing defect. The weapons are prone to discharge if they are struck, or dropped when a round is in the chamber. I sent my PT-145 in for repair more than 14 MONTHS AGO, and Taurus is STILL making excuses for not repairing or replacing it.

There is a class action suit against Taurus over this issue. They will buy back your weapon for $200, or they will replace it... I've been waiting over 14 months for a replacement. Their customer service will NOT respond to any messages, they expect YOU to call them for updates (and be on hold sometimes more than 1 hour).

I am done with Taurus.


----------



## OuttaPhilly

I have a Taurus PT-1911 .45ACP that I bought used. It is full sized, and is all metal. I had one problem with it that was covered under the one year warranty the gun shop I use gives to all of the used guns they sell. It was the safety broke. A local gunsmith fixed and I had it back in two days. I have run around 2,000 rounds through it, and I have found it to be reliable and fun to shoot. My wife carries a Taurus M85 .38 Special she bought new. Once again, never a problem.

So I am comfortable with Taurus, but I am also a guy who logged 100,000 miles on USAirways without ever having a problem, so I might just be the chosen one.


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## Livingthedream

The pt-1911 seams to be a little less prone to problems. The G2's on the other hand have had more than their fair share of problems. I am also from philly. what gun shop are you referring to ?


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Livingthedream said:


> ...I am also from philly...


Hey, Livingthedream, what can we work out?
Two things I just cannot get here are really good scrapple and a decent cheesesteak sandwich.

We can get frozen Jones Dairy Farm packaged scrapple, which is OK...mostly.
But cheesesteaks? Fuggedaboudit!

Got any ideas?


----------



## BigHead

I have had three Taurus guns, and they were well made, but that was 20 years ago. But, I have read about so many complaints, and about so many brands, that I would be leery of anything new.


----------



## Livingthedream

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hey, Livingthedream, what can we work out?
> Two things I just cannot get here are really good scrapple and a decent cheesesteak sandwich.
> 
> We can get frozen Jones Dairy Farm packaged scrapple, which is OK...mostly.
> But cheesesteaks? Fuggedaboudit!
> 
> Got any ideas?


Check it out. Best cheese steaks in the world. http://patskingofsteaks.com/ .Geno's is my second favorite followed by a place called tony lukes. Not a big scrapple guy. I know!


----------



## AZdave

Livingthedream said:


> Check it out. Best cheese steaks in the world. Pat's King of Steaks® Since 1930 .Geno's is my second favorite followed by a place called tony lukes. Not a big scrapple guy. I know!


I haven't had breakfast and my mouth is watering for a cheese steak. Scrapple fuggedaboudit.


----------



## RK3369

*Been there, done that:*



PlaneGuy said:


> Their customer service will NOT respond to any messages, they expect YOU to call them for updates (and be on hold sometimes more than 1 hour).
> 
> I am done with Taurus.


:smt041


----------



## Livingthedream

AZdave said:


> I haven't had breakfast and my mouth is watering for a cheese steak. Scrapple fuggedaboudit.


 Lol....In laws live in Scottsdale . Will be going out to visit this summer. Will probably be bringing out some cheesesteaks , Philly pretzels and scrapple. O and some tasty cakes.
There used to be a sandwich shop called uncle sams out there that had pretty good cheesesteaks , Guy was from philly. Not sure if they are still in business.


----------



## blackshirt

I have a 85 revolver that has been great....I have a G2 that is terrible...
Poor finish..Terrible trigger...Mags rattle in the grip...My semi auto days 
with Taurus are over based on my G2 and others i have owned.
The Taurus forum is loaded with moderators that jump in and pass out ban
warnings and close threads like passing out candy if you say one negative thing
about your problem Taurus.
I have enjoyed reading the problems with the Spectrum over there....
Like light primer strikes...Cracked trigger..Etc.....And they try to
say just send it back for repair....Like that makes things all better.
Better them than me...My money is to scarce to gamble on another
Over hyped,delayed release candy colored novelty Taurus semi auto.


----------



## AZdave

Livingthedream said:


> Lol....In laws live in Scottsdale . Will be going out to visit this summer. Will probably be bringing out some cheesesteaks , Philly pretzels and scrapple. O and some tasty cakes.
> There used to be a sandwich shop called uncle sams out there that had pretty good cheesesteaks , Guy was from philly. Not sure if they are still in business.


I like replying to a one year old post. I did find a philly-cheese steak here in Chandler. NW corner of Alma and Ray. Lot's of philly memorabilia even a super bowl ring.

They have good sandwiches.

@blackshirt

Yes the reports of poor Taurus quality have been rampant. I like the PT-1911 and am looking for one in stainless. It has the front of the handle checked.


----------



## AllenFromPa

I have 2 semi autp Taurus. Love them they work well. And have a 357 tracker on layaway.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

AllenFromPa said:


> I have 2 semi autp Taurus...And have a 357 tracker on layaway.


...And I'd rather have a good Philly cheese steak.


----------



## AllenFromPa

We made cheese steaks tonight.You guys made me hungry lol.


----------



## blackshirt

AllenFromPa said:


> I have 2 semi autp Taurus. Love them they work well. And have a 357 tracker on layaway.


Now the Tracker i like


----------



## Steve M1911A1

blackshirt said:


> Now the Tracker i like


...Yeah, but crispy-fried scrapple is better.
And probably will last longer, too. :anim_lol:


----------



## Shipwreck

I quit a facebook group I was on for like a week - pertaining to guns. I just couldn't take all the suggestions for Taurus guns being made to newbies buying their first gun. It was too stressful to hold my tongue and not say anything


----------



## blackshirt

Shipwreck said:


> I quit a facebook group I was on for like a week - pertaining to guns. I just couldn't take all the suggestions for Taurus guns being made to newbies buying their first gun. It was too stressful to hold my tongue and not say anything


The forum isn't any better.....You can bash a Glock all day long...But say anything about Taurus and you get a Ban warning
or the thread is closed....For me it is like...We are adults not children....I have one Taurus Revolver that i love....You hate them...
No need for a ban warning or a thread closed because we have different views on a brand.

BTW...My Revolver has been great...I will count my blessings and prolly never buy another Taurus of any kind...LOL.


----------



## AllenFromPa

Nothing wrong with having opinions on a brand.


----------



## Livingthedream

blackshirt said:


> The forum isn't any better.....You can bash a Glock all day long...But say anything about Taurus and you get a Ban warning
> or the thread is closed....For me it is like...We are adults not children....I have one Taurus Revolver that i love....You hate them...
> No need for a ban warning or a thread closed because we have different views on a brand.
> 
> BTW...My Revolver has been great...I will count my blessings and prolly never buy another Taurus of any kind...LOL.


Amen to that !!!!!! Think I know other forum you are referring to. It is becoming a real joke there. Btw reading about more and more QC issues with new Taurus G2'S.


----------



## blackshirt

Livingthedream said:


> Amen to that !!!!!! Think I know other forum you are referring to. It is becoming a real joke there. Btw reading about more and more QC issues with new Taurus G2'S.


Looks like the Spectrum as well...Seeing light primer strikes, cracked trigger etc.....
Its no biggy ...Just send it in they say....LOL...We all know how that works.


----------



## etp

Sent my 911 in last Mid November (lawsuit return) and got my new brown gun (not SS) in late April and fired it once before I moved. With all the transfer fees I should have taken the $200 they offered and bought another SW. My son loves the German made ones I think by HK.


----------



## bkellyusa

I have never considered buying a Taurus and have always felt kind of sorry for people who do buy them since all to often these are people have little expereiince with handguns and buy them without knowing much about the brand. That has all changed this year. It started with the G2C. I had just purchased a name brand 9mm and didn't even look at the Tuarus G2C but a week later when I saw it in another dealrs store I took a look at it and was in shocked at how much I liked the pistol. It has more rounds, better ergonomics and all of the features you could ever hope for. After that I read every review of the G2C and the vast majority were very, very positive. Last week I took a look at the Taurus PT-1911. Again I was shocked at how much I liked this gun. Two friends of mine who work for the dealer told me that the PT-1911 is also the no-brainer purchase in the affordable 1911 guns. I didn't buy it but I might do it one day. 

These two experiences have caused me to re-evauate the whole Taurus controversy. What I've found is that Taurus has made some questionable guns over the yeas but at the same time they have made some very nice ones. The Judge is one that comes to mind first. A few years back that pistol was so popular it was like a fad at the time. Lots of people owned them. I think they have a few other revolvers with similar reputations but like I've said earlier all of this Taurus stuff is new to me. I have never, ever paid them any attention but now, with their quality going up and some of them being built in the U.S. and a new factory being built in Georgia they are definitly on my list of guns to consider.


----------



## Goldwing

bkellyusa said:


> I have never considered buying a Taurus and have always felt kind of sorry for people who do buy them since all to often these are people have little expereiince with handguns and buy them without knowing much about the brand. That has all changed this year. It started with the G2C. I had just purchased a name brand 9mm and didn't even look at the Tuarus G2C but a week later when I saw it in another dealrs store I took a look at it and was in shocked at how much I liked the pistol. It has more rounds, better ergonomics and all of the features you could ever hope for. After that I read every review of the G2C and the vast majority were very, very positive. Last week I took a look at the Taurus PT-1911. Again I was shocked at how much I liked this gun. Two friends of mine who work for the dealer told me that the PT-1911 is also the no-brainer purchase in the affordable 1911 guns. I didn't buy it but I might do it one day.
> 
> These two experiences have caused me to re-evauate the whole Taurus controversy. What I've found is that Taurus has made some questionable guns over the yeas but at the same time they have made some very nice ones. The Judge is one that comes to mind first. A few years back that pistol was so popular it was like a fad at the time. Lots of people owned them. I think they have a few other revolvers with similar reputations but like I've said earlier all of this Taurus stuff is new to me. I have never, ever paid them any attention but now, with their quality going up and some of them being built in the U.S. and a new factory being built in Georgia they are definitly on my list of guns to consider.


Keep in mind that Taurus reduced the warranty period from lifetime to one year for guns sold after January of 2017. Maybe their quality is so good that a lifetime warranty is no longer necessary?

GW


----------



## Shipwreck

goldwing said:


> Keep in mind that Taurus reduced the warranty period from lifetime to one year for guns sold after January of 2018. Maybe their quality is so good that a lifetime warranty is no longer necessary?
> 
> GW


----------



## Goldwing

Shipwreck said:


>


I believe this:REPAIR POLICY	BACK

REPAIR POLICY
Taurus USA is totally committed to the very highest standards of quality, dependability, and most of all customer satisfaction. The Taurus Unlimited Lifetime Repair Policy™ is a commitment to repair selected Taurus firearm models FREE OF CHARGE for the lifetime of the firearm. Should you need to take advantage of our repair policy, please follow the directions on the shipping instruction link and our work order form, which can must be printed out and shipped in with the firearm.

[/B]The Taurus Unlimited Lifetime Repair Policy extends to all Taurus USA firearm models in production prior to January 1, 2017.*

This policy does not cover grips, sights, accessories, cosmetic defects after one year, or damage caused by customer abuse at any time. Taurus USA will not be responsible for these items.

TAURUS USA reserves the right to field strip, inspect and function test all firearms sent to TAURUS USA upon receipt or anytime thereafter. Customers will be provided an estimate for repair if such repair is not covered under the applicable Repair Policy.

REPAIR POLICY | HOW TO USE OUR REPAIR POLICY | SHIPPING INSTRUCTIONS | WORK ORDER*


----------



## Shipwreck

I was joking - about how it is down to 1 year. But the Taurus fanatics still think they are better than sliced bread


----------



## Pandaz3

I am actually more of a Springfield fanatic with eleven pistols, Ruger with eight pistols, or Glock with six, but I did buy my third Taurus pistol, yet to pick it up though so I can't tell you anything bad or good about my new PT-111 2GC yet.


----------



## berettatoter

Pandaz3 said:


> I am actually more of a Springfield fanatic with eleven pistols, Ruger with eight pistols, or Glock with six, but I did buy my third Taurus pistol, yet to pick it up though so I can't tell you anything bad or good about my new PT-111 2GC yet.


Anticipating a range report.


----------



## Pandaz3

I will have to wait for my FFL to return first, I doubt that there will be a lot of difference from my PT-111 G2, some incremental changes. I will shoot both at the same time so I might discern and register differences. I have Talon FDE Grip tape on the current gun, but had ordered some other companies tape in gray, well the new gun has a stainless slide so that ought to work out.


----------



## berettatoter

Pandaz3 said:


> I will have to wait for my FFL to return first, I doubt that there will be a lot of difference from my PT-111 G2, some incremental changes. I will shoot both at the same time so I might discern and register differences. I have Talon FDE Grip tape on the current gun, but had ordered some other companies tape in gray, well the new gun has a stainless slide so that ought to work out.


At least it does not have the annoying lock mechanism in it.


----------



## Tangof

I bought a TX22 because the gun looked like a cool .22, and also I was going to check out for myself if all this bad mouthing was true. Now I own Taurus semi-autos and revolvers, but were talking pre 1990 manufacture. None of mine malfunction or have broken. My TX22 feels great in the hand. The sights and trigger I would put in the good to very good category. Reliability? It jammed on the third shot. I fixed it and fired out the magazine. Second magazine jammed on the fourth shot. Fixed it, fired out the magazine. Third magazine jammed on the third shot. Same magazine malfunction each time. The magazine follower does not want to angle the cartridge properly onto the feed ramp. I tried dry lube and that didn't work. Taurus has it now they inform me I'll have it in ten weeks. Now to be very fair I do NOT hear of a lot of TX22 ranting that their gun's are doing the same thing. Maybe I'm just lucky.


----------



## Pandaz3

I forgot to report back on my two PT-111's a G2 and a G2C. There is a slight difference in the bevel of the ejection port, no lock, nicer roll marks and grip texture logo. That's about it, Shooting I did not notice a difference. I did not really shoot a lot or a big variety of ammunition. But the new one functions well. I have 380's that need shooting, and then some 40's, before I get back to 9's


----------



## Pandaz3

Now I own a PT-140 G2C, same everything as the 9 MM PT-111, but ten round magazines instead of twelve, plus one in the chamber. I shot the 40 today 51 rounds, 40 new LAX 165 Gr JHP and 11 of Underwood 150 Gr JHP (Nosler bullet I think), 25 yards at a 8x12" plate. great accuracy for me I need to shot it more of course, and I will, but a good start for now.


----------



## win231

The words "Taurus" and "Quality" together in the same sentence?

Like "Jumbo" "Shrimp."


----------



## Pandaz3

win231 said:


> The words "Taurus" and "Quality" together in the same sentence?
> 
> Like "Jumbo" "Shrimp."


 Shrimp are small but Jumbo shrimp are bigger and I think tastier.


----------



## Tangof

I can't speak to the 9MM compacts having only fired a couple dozen rounds in two models, but the TX22 has passed the thousand round mark WITH OUT A MAL-FUNCTION. Unheard of in a .22 handgun. If I read this I would call BS because of the propensity of .22 ammunition to have failures. I would not mislead anyone on this. This gun is good.


----------



## Shipwreck

Well, I am glad yours is working.

For me - not going to buy one of their guns ever. Nope. Sorry...

I never said that 100% of their guns are horrible, but enough are, along with the service the company gives you when you do have a problem.

To me, Taurus is in the same category as Hi Point, Jimenez, etc....


----------



## Pandaz3

I have never cared for the looks of a Hi-Point, but have heard they were reliable.

I am certain Taurus will miss your business, but hey, they have a little bit of mine.


----------



## Tangof

Shipwreck said:


> Well, I am glad yours is working.
> 
> For me - not going to buy one of their guns ever. Nope. Sorry...
> 
> I never said that 100% of their guns are horrible, but enough are, along with the service the company gives you when you do have a problem.
> 
> To me, Taurus is in the same category as Hi Point, Jimenez, etc....


No need to be sorry. Just don't buy one. I gave a completely honest report on one Taurus product, why would I care who bought what?


----------



## DOUBLESHOT

Handguning is my second hobby. My first and my profession is Photography. Years ago I managed retail camera stores and had to sell Sigma lenses. When showing a customer a Sigma lens almost one out of three lenses would either have something fall off or it wouldn't work properly. Boy, have they turned things around! Today they have some of the finest lenses out there. I have and professionally use several of them.

I do not have, as of yet, own any Taurus handguns but I believe that a company can turn there reputation around. I am considering buying a G2S in the near future and current reviews look good. What do you think?


----------



## Shipwreck

DOUBLESHOT said:


> What do you think?


Taurus has claimed to turn their company around many times over the years - they have yet to do so IMHO.

I say "why?" When there are so many other options. Many GREAT guns around the $300 mark, or even cheaper sometimes. Heck, you can get a M&P Shield for $250 or so, online.

My life is worth more than a Taurus, personally.


----------



## Tangof

Shipwreck said:


> Taurus has claimed to turn their company around many times over the years - they have yet to do so IMHO.
> 
> I say "why?" When there are so many other options. Many GREAT guns around the $300 mark, or even cheaper sometimes. Heck, you can get a M&P Shield for $250 or so, online.
> 
> My life is worth more than a Taurus, personally.


I have a hard time understanding the animosity towards a company. If you don't like their products don't buy them. This ranting is getting a little weird. One poster actually stated "I'd rather be dead than own a Taurus." Now there's a statement that makes me question if the poster should be on a gun forum or a therapist's couch. I don't like Ruger's 9mm American. I posted why once and forgot about it. I didn't make a career out of it. Kind of spooky.


----------



## Shipwreck

Tangof said:


> I have a hard time understanding the animosity towards a company. If you don't like their products don't buy them. This ranting is getting a little weird. One poster actually stated "I'd rather be dead than own a Taurus." Now there's a statement that makes me question if the poster should be on a gun forum or a therapist's couch. I don't like Ruger's 9mm American. I posted why once and forgot about it. I didn't make a career out of it. Kind of spooky.


Not so - I don't go seeking out Taurus threads to repeatedly say - "Hey, your gun sucks."

I am much less proactive about my Taurus complains now. But, go back and look who started THIS thread. I did. So, in this thread, I won't hide my opinion. And, if someone ASKS for an opinion about a Taurus gun, THEN, I will comment.

Many of the links in the very first post on this thread probably do not work anymore, as this thread is several years old. But, I have actually run many, many gun forums over the years.... I think I was admin here, back when this thread started. And, I got tired of seeing so many gun newbies online, and in person, get sucked into a Taurus gun for their first gun - almost exclusively based on price. Then, after a little while, they would find out their mistake. Their very next post was about a problem with the gun. Like clockwork, time after time after time. THAT is why I started this thread....

I've also been on just about every gun forum for over a decade - probably going back to 2003 or so. Over time, I started to collect some links to story after story of people with bad Taurus experiences. Then, I eventually started this thread on this forum, and a handful of other threads on a few other forums.

It is unfortunate that one of the worst Taurus threads I ever read is gone. It was on Glocktalk, and many, many years ago - they were having server space issues on the Glocktalk forum. So, lots of old threads were deleted in order to make space on their server. That 1 particular Taurus thread went on for like 18 months straight - and the treatment that guy got from Taurus was just appalling. He would come back and do updates every month or two, and the nightmare for that poor guy went on for like a year and a half. No one deserved to be treated that way

I have owned 1 Taurus years ago, and I would not buy one again based off of that one. But that 1 Glocktalk thread was enough to make many swear off the company just by the treatment this one guy got.

Anyway - go back and look at the beginning of this thread. This thread IS a negative slant towards Taurus. If I can save a few gun newbies from making a huge mistake - I will. There are so many better quality guns out now that are not expensive.

Why some Taurus fans over and over accuse anyone who doesn't sing their pro-Taurus tunes as being a hater - I don't know.

I don't see that sort of treatment when people talk about some other product online. But, when it is Taurus and the comment is negative - you are a hater. There is some sort of imaginary concept that brands people who don't like the Taurus rand are haters. And, if you don't personally own a Taurus that became a nightmare, then you have no room to talk. But, when some people who have had bad Taurus experiences chime in - then the next step from the Taurus mafia is: Well, you can't go off of 1 example. Then, when someone else with multiple bad Taurus experiences jumps in - then there is some other sort of imaginary criteria that gets decided upon in an effort to dismiss that person. This goes on all day long by the pro-Taurus people who just can't accept anything negative being said about their favorite brand.

Why they can't say - "Hey, I like the brand, but admit they can have significant problems" - I will never know.

Beretta is my favorite platform, but they can have problems too. Heck, ANY brand can make the occasional lemon. The 92FS is my all time favorite gun. If someone bad mouths the platform or brand - I just smile, and go back to shooting my gun. I could care less. I know what my favorite gun is, and I know how it shoots in my hand. I also know the quality that the average Beretta has. I have more than enough personal gun experience to recognize that many of these comments are just parroting what someone else has said. But, I don't go down into endless arguments as to why they are wrong. Let them have whatever opinion they have.

But Taurus fans can't do that, apparently. Its like their ego is permanently tied to the brand. No one is allowed to have any other opinion but a pro-Taurus opinion. It is interesting that posting a REAL-Life, NEGATIVE experience on the Taurus Forum can get someone banned, or at least it has in the past. Interesting that there can only be one positive voice on that forum, or you get kicked out the club.

I have never said 100% of Taurus guns are not good. But, MANY, MANY other people on this forum have agreed that they seem to have a high percentage of lemons than many other gun companies. There have also been some Taurus stories that are just plain inexcusable. Plus, even some huge safety concerns.

Sorry, but I stick with my original opinion that I have said for years - I would not want a Taurus if one was given to me. My life is worth more than a Taurus, and it always will be.

You like the company? Good. Enjoy their guns. But, I hate seeing newbies sucked into a bad deal. And given that the # of guns I have owned over the last 25 years goes into the 3 digits, I do have my share of gun experience.

It is fortunate that quite a few gun shops don't even carry Taurus guns anymore. They got sick of the returns. It is often the big box stores like Academy selling them, or vendors at gun shows.

THAT was the purpose of THIS thread - to warn the gun newbie. And, that is why I do not shy away from my viewpoint in THIS thread.

Other threads - I'm not going waste my time, unless I am asked...


----------



## Tangof

Shipwreck said:


> Not so - I don't go seeking out Taurus threads to repeatedly say - "Hey, your gun sucks."
> 
> I am much less proactive about my Taurus complains now. But, go back and look who started THIS thread. I did. So, in this thread, I won't hide my opinion. And, if someone ASKS for an opinion about a Taurus gun, THEN, I will comment.
> 
> Many of the links in the very first post on this thread probably do not work anymore, as this thread is several years old. But, I have actually run many, many gun forums over the years.... I think I was admin here, back when this thread started. And, I got tired of seeing so many gun newbies online, and in person, get sucked into a Taurus gun for their first gun - almost exclusively based on price. Then, after a little while, they would find out their mistake. Their very next post was about a problem with the gun. Like clockwork, time after time after time. THAT is why I started this thread....
> 
> I've also been on just about every gun forum for over a decade - probably going back to 2003 or so. Over time, I started to collect some links to story after story of people with bad Taurus experiences. Then, I eventually started this thread on this forum, and a handful of other threads on a few other forums.
> 
> It is unfortunate that one of the worst Taurus threads I ever read is gone. It was on Glocktalk, and many, many years ago - they were having server space issues on the Glocktalk forum. So, lots of old threads were deleted in order to make space on their server. That 1 particular Taurus thread went on for like 18 months straight - and the treatment that guy got from Taurus was just appalling. He would come back and do updates every month or two, and the nightmare for that poor guy went on for like a year and a half. No one deserved to be treated that way
> 
> I have owned 1 Taurus years ago, and I would not buy one again based off of that one. But that 1 Glocktalk thread was enough to make many swear off the company just by the treatment this one guy got.
> 
> Anyway - go back and look at the beginning of this thread. This thread IS a negative slant towards Taurus. If I can save a few gun newbies from making a huge mistake - I will. There are so many better quality guns out now that are not expensive.
> 
> Why some Taurus fans over and over accuse anyone who doesn't sing their pro-Taurus tunes as being a hater - I don't know.
> 
> I don't see that sort of treatment when people talk about some other product online. But, when it is Taurus and the comment is negative - you are a hater. There is some sort of imaginary concept that brands people who don't like the Taurus rand are haters. And, if you don't personally own a Taurus that became a nightmare, then you have no room to talk. But, when some people who have had bad Taurus experiences chime in - then the next step from the Taurus mafia is: Well, you can't go off of 1 example. Then, when someone else with multiple bad Taurus experiences jumps in - then there is some other sort of imaginary criteria that gets decided upon in an effort to dismiss that person. This goes on all day long by the pro-Taurus people who just can't accept anything negative being said about their favorite brand.
> 
> Why they can't say - "Hey, I like the brand, but admit they can have significant problems" - I will never know.
> 
> Beretta is my favorite platform, but they can have problems too. Heck, ANY brand can make the occasional lemon. The 92FS is my all time favorite gun. If someone bad mouths the platform or brand - I just smile, and go back to shooting my gun. I could care less. I know what my favorite gun is, and I know how it shoots in my hand. I also know the quality that the average Beretta has. I have more than enough personal gun experience to recognize that many of these comments are just parroting what someone else has said. But, I don't go down into endless arguments as to why they are wrong. Let them have whatever opinion they have.
> 
> But Taurus fans can't do that, apparently. Its like their ego is permanently tied to the brand. No one is allowed to have any other opinion but a pro-Taurus opinion. It is interesting that posting a REAL-Life, NEGATIVE experience on the Taurus Forum can get someone banned, or at least it has in the past. Interesting that there can only be one positive voice on that forum, or you get kicked out the club.
> 
> I have never said 100% of Taurus guns are not good. But, MANY, MANY other people on this forum have agreed that they seem to have a high percentage of lemons than many other gun companies. There have also been some Taurus stories that are just plain inexcusable. Plus, even some huge safety concerns.
> 
> Sorry, but I stick with my original opinion that I have said for years - I would not want a Taurus if one was given to me. My life is worth more than a Taurus, and it always will be.
> 
> You like the company? Good. Enjoy their guns. But, I hate seeing newbies sucked into a bad deal. And given that the # of guns I have owned over the last 25 years goes into the 3 digits, I do have my share of gun experience.
> 
> It is fortunate that quite a few gun shops don't even carry Taurus guns anymore. They got sick of the returns. It is often the big box stores like Academy selling them, or vendors at gun shows.
> 
> THAT was the purpose of THIS thread - to warn the gun newbie. And, that is why I do not shy away from my viewpoint in THIS thread.
> 
> Other threads - I'm not going waste my time, unless I am asked...


Pretty long response to say you don't go and on about hating Taurus Inc. Since I have bought exactly one Taurus since 1990, I'm hardly a supporter. I think enough information is out there that you don't have to keep beating a dead Horse (or Bull). I generally steer beginner's toward Ruger or S&W, but let's face it, a lot of buyer's will go for the low price (Wive's generally are along) and seeing a gun that's $50.00 to $100.00 cheaper will make the decision for the less expensive model. I gave up explaining why I prefer a CZ P-01 over a Taurus G2. I mean, they shoot the same bullet and look the same, right? You explain it. I'm taking a nap.


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## Shipwreck

Tangof said:


> Pretty long response to say you don't go and on about hating Taurus Inc. Since I have bought exactly one Taurus since 1990, I'm hardly a supporter. I think enough information is out there that you don't have to keep beating a dead Horse (or Bull). I generally steer beginner's toward Ruger or S&W, but let's face it, a lot of buyer's will go for the low price (Wive's generally are along) and seeing a gun that's $50.00 to $100.00 cheaper will make the decision for the less expensive model. I gave up explaining why I prefer a CZ P-01 over a Taurus G2. I mean, they shoot the same bullet and look the same, right? You explain it. I'm taking a nap.


Once again - I posted my long response BECAUSE this particular thread is my own. I haven't posted much on it lately. And,. I honestly have avoided the Taurus topic for the past couple of years - until I made a response on this thread earlier in the week.

My long response is probably me getting tired of this same old argument that I have seen on many other threads here in the Taurus section - being made by others. I've just stayed out of the conversation as much as I can until Tuesday.

I thought I would take the time to explain myself again, as there seems to be questioning on "why the Taurus hate" on an anti-Taurus thread, that is clearly marked as such...

Plus, one can never assume that just because there are so many past threads on a subject that the same thing doesn't repeat itself. WAY too many people on all sorts of forums never go back and read. They just post the same questions over and over and over. So, even now, there are tons of people who have absolutely NO idea why their Taurus is not better than some other brand. Then, when they have a problem, they are surprised...


----------



## Clerk

Shipwreck,

I'm shocked and sorry to hear of your Taurus issues. I have in my battery a few pistols and revolvers all made by Taurus and never had any mechanical issues at all. On my buddies PT99 the rear ight cam loose and disapeared during a shooting and Taurus repaired it with in a month and sent it back at no charge. This was the version that has an adjustable sight too.

One day when California's stupid list of allowed pistols in the state goes away I want to get a PT92 in stainless steel for my collection.

Clerk


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## Tangof

The PT92 and 99 have been shooting for over thirty years with no breakdowns of any kind. Taurus' problems began with polymer and the rush to get into the concealed carry market before the big boy's cornered it. Bad mistake to overlook quality control and customer service. The TX22 may be the Taurus turn around gun. After magazine spring replacement (in 10 day's!) mine has fired over a thousand rounds without a malfunction. Unheard of in a .22 LR due to rimfire ammunition inconsistencies. The G2 series has a lot of supporter's largely due to being priced at less than $200.00 and apparently reliable. Not for me. The TX22 is a lot of fun, but the CZ line is my choice in carry gun's.


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## Pandaz3

Doubleshot, on the G2S, it is essentially the same as a G2C, except single stack. It is slightly improved over the 709 Slim. It will conceal in the front pocket of my Wrangler jeans. I carry the double stack version in 40 S&W (PT-140 G2C). My Shields (40, 45) will not fir in my pocket concealed, nor would a 9 MM if I owned one.
I do own a Ruger LC9s Pro that I like better than the Taurus offerings, but they have been discontinued. The Taurus external safety is easier to Manipulate than the Ruger's external safety, for my anyway. (My Pro does not have a External safety. that's why I bought it.)
Someone above indicated they do not like a Ruger American Compact 9 MM. I share their sentiment as the owner of one. Mine locked up on round 20, Ruger did very quickly repaired it and had it back to me a week after I sent it in. I shot 80 more rounds and it sits unused. I'm sure it works, it's just tainted to me.
A G2S seems like a good choice today.


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## berettatoter

Tangof said:


> The PT92 and 99 have been shooting for over thirty years with no breakdowns of any kind. Taurus' problems began with polymer and the rush to get into the concealed carry market before the big boy's cornered it. Bad mistake to overlook quality control and customer service. The TX22 may be the Taurus turn around gun. After magazine spring replacement (in 10 day's!) mine has fired over a thousand rounds without a malfunction. Unheard of in a .22 LR due to rimfire ammunition inconsistencies. The G2 series has a lot of supporter's largely due to being priced at less than $200.00 and apparently reliable. Not for me. The TX22 is a lot of fun, but the CZ line is my choice in carry gun's.
> View attachment 17186
> View attachment 17188


I have yet to even see one of the TX's around me.


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## Jessie James 58

jack76590 said:


> Since the shippers imposed the overnight requirement I have shipped two guns back to the factory. Both Smith Jframes that were recent runs of "no lock." Both had somewhat short firing pins and with some ammo very faint strike on primer. But they did fire and Smith send me a mailer via internet and replaced firing pins. All at no cost to me.
> 
> I call that customer service and it is worth the extra few dollars. At least when you can find a "no lock" handgun.
> 
> How much does it cost to mail gun to taurus for repairs? I understand they will not pay postage or send you mailer to send it in for warranty work, is that correct?


It only took 5 days to replace the striker in my TX 22 and Taurus paid all shipping to and from.


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## LostinTexas

I have one experience with Taurus. It is a Pro 140. It's a bunch of years old and has 8 or 9 cases of ammo run through it.
It kinda felt cheap on day one. The safety is a little iffy, but works as long as you do your part. It comes off without a blink when you sweep it. The feel hasn't changed enough to be noticeable with the use and age, so I guess my assessment of "feel" is moot.
It has never had a failure. It eats everything that I have run in it so far, FMJ or HP. Even the flying ashtray of a Gold Dot feeds. It is a little narrow for a double stack (ish) mag, so that is nice and it carries well. The stainless has remained stainless through the years.
My one and only complaint, if you can call it one, is it shoots about 5 inches low at 7 yards. I know this, and can either compensate or start there. I'm one of those people that will never know if I had a one shot stop. 
I look at the G2 or what ever and think that would be a nice little 9. I have little use for a 9 but know I should keep one for prosperity and all, and the reviews are quite good on them. I'm still Jonesing for a Security 9 though, so that will probably be the next purchase if I decide the money should be spent.
Happy Obsessing


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## Pandaz3

Well The G3 is a bigger version of the G2C, will likely sell for less than $250. It will be cheaper than a Security 9, with similar performance, maybe better specs (17 round extended magazine mostly). It will hurt Ruger some.


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## LostinTexas

Pandaz3 said:


> Well The G3 is a bigger version of the G2C, will likely sell for less than $250. It will be cheaper than a Security 9, with similar performance, maybe better specs (17 round extended magazine mostly). It will hurt Ruger some.


The Security 9 can be had for $279 on a fairly regular basis. $299 will get them all day any day at Academy, so the price point is marginal. We'll have to see what the "street" price ends up. Either way, push comes to shove, and even though I like the Taurus, I would probably pick the Ruger. I have some history with Ruger and to date, it has all been more than a little bit positive.
We are talking about my "only" 9MM, as well, not "one of".


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## berettatoter

I have the G2C and a couple of M605's, and they have all done well for me. I also have the Security 9 full sized, and it is a hell of a pistol.


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## Pandaz3

I have LCP, LCP Custom, LCP II, LC-380, LC-9, LC-9s Pro, Ruger American Pistol Compact Pro 9MM and have only had trouble with the last one, the RAP Compact, I was a early adopter. It locked up hard after the first 20 rounds, back to the factory and they fixed it, I then put another 80 rounds thru it and put it on the shelf where it sits today, they have developed a high round count problem, but I don't see me accumulating anything close to that.


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## PhuBai70

The first handgun I ever bought was a Taurus PT99. This was back in the 80s when, as far as I knew, they were new to the gun market. To be honest, I wanted a Beretta 92 but they were going for over $600 and the Taurus was $399. When I compared the two at the gun store the Taurus looked good but the slide to frame fit was noticeably looser than the Beretta. 
Since money was more of a concern back then I decided on the Taurus. I chose the satin nickel finish because the blued finish looked kind of plain in comparison. They were not making stainless guns yet.
I will say that it functioned reliably over the years with round nose and hollow point ammo. I do not ever recall it failing to go bang when I pulled the trigger.
If I had to point out one thing it would be accuracy. I'm not the greatest shot but I never could get decent groups with the Taurus. My brother-in-law, who is an excellent marksman, was not impressed with the accuracy. Maybe it was the loose fit I mentioned earlier.


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## Tangof

The TX22 is going to turn the .22 semi-automatic market around. I see Kel Tec is already advertising a 16 shot double stack pistol. Of course with their lead time you may see it in 2022. My TX was such a disappointment I bought a second to see if I could be doubly disillusioned. Sarcasm aside, I've been shooting both quite a lot with all kinds of .22 ammunition with one malfunction a hung up Mini-Mag HP round. CCI Quit won't work the action nor is it Quiet. ( I thought I'd throw that in.) Do what you like,t






he TX22 is a nice .22 for plinking or as a hiking gun.


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## Shipwreck

I just made a post on another forum (a thread asking the opinion of Taurus). As it is relevant to this thread - and as I started this thread, I thought I'd paste it in here too:

I am sorry - but I still have a low opinion of Taurus. There are still many complaints about many of their current guns on all the various gun forums. To me, my life is worth more than a Taurus. And, there are so many other brands of good guns out there for $300 or less now. I just don't see the point.

Hell, you can buy an M&P Shield for $249 right now - and, they were even less with the rebate thru Dec 2019.

I've owned enough guns to go into the 3 digits over 20+ years. Maybe I AM a gun snob. I'll buy that...

Now, I HAVE owned one Taurus back in the 1990s. I will never buy a Taurus again (and, I did have problems with it). That's just me. I don't like to run down a person's gun in a thread that they post about their "new gun." So, I roll my eyes and keep my mouth shut when I see someone talk about their new Taurus... Unless it is a thread such as this one, I try to stay out of it....

But, I just say "why."

"Why?!?!?!"

Damn - I know every company has some recalls and problems- but geeze - some of the Taurus stories are damn infuriating. Not just on gun forums, but even some news stories over the years.

Heck, I remember on Glocktalk forum years ago - one guy's specific Taurus odyssey with Taurus went on for like 18+ months. He would come back and update the thread periodically. I think they sent his gun back to him 3x without even touching the damn thing (they literally claimed they worked on it, and did nothing). And, when they did actually do some work when he kept sending it in... It had about the same outcome of them not doing anything. It's too bad that Glocktalk purged some old threads for server space many, many years ago...

Wanna say that is just ONE story from one guy? Damn - the gun forums are filled with them.

Wanna say that just internet chatter from haters? Some people will accuse you of not being able to comment unless you have owned a Taurus that WAS a problem. But, if you did have that experience with a Taurus problem, then the Taurus fans still insult you and tell you that ONE problem gun is not enough to make a judgement on. However, you will occasionally see someone that was dumb enough to buy 3 or 4 of their guns, and that person had a problem with ALL 3 or 4. When that person tells their nightmare story - the Taurus fans usually never respond back to the thread...









But, I know, I know. Taurus fans call anyone who says anything negative a "hater." It's like a damn religion among Taurus fans... Damn you if you say anything negative, It must be "because you have never owned one" - OR, because you are a "hater."

I am a Beretta fanatic. I have owned close to 40 Berettas or various makes and models over the years. I have said my share of negative stuff concerning Beretta - and yet it is my favorite gun brand. People say something bad about a Beretta when I am at the range - I just smile and keep shooting... But, say something negative about Taurus, and you get castigated as some sort of kook on many gun forums.

This topic has come up before here - whether Taurus guns were "good" or not.... There WILL be some Taurus fans on this forum, although I have no idea why









Some will disagree with me and like them. That's fine. But, the topic of "Taurus guns" tends to be a trigger for me
















NEVER, EVER will I buy another Taurus gun. When I am at a store that actually carries one and I see one looking at a Taurus, I have occasionally tried to talk them out of it when the salesman walks away. But, that is less often now, because my local shops won't even carry the brand anymore (yes, I said "shops" with an "s"). For a reason.

My life is worth more than a Taurus. If money is an issue - there are SEVERAL other better options. And, just like I will never change a Taurus fan's mind. No one will change mine...

I wish the poll had an option that said: "Hell no! No way in hell! Ain't no way! Not even if ya gave me one for free!"

And, this is coming from a gun nut who has gone thru so many guns over the years, known several people like me that are just as much into guns, and I have run many internet gun forums over the years.... So, I have a reference point.


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## Tangof

It certainly looks like the Taurus TX22 is beating the Glock 44 in every department. It's been out now about a year with some barrel issues that have been promptly fixed and the double column magazines are working as they're supposed to, Something Glock couldn't manage. I;m not doing a Taurus debate because I really don't care . I carry CZ and sometimes a Hellcat, although I'm still not sure about the micro 9 concept. Back to the .22's, Taurus has a winner. Early returns are the G44 has had Ka booms and feeding problems reported from many owners. I'm not "Brand Dedicated" so I decide on a handguns virtues, not who makes it. Very pleased with my Glock 21 for example, but the G17 is way outclassed by the CZ 75b. The TX22 is a winner, but in accuracy it will never beat my Ruger MKII. I don't glorify or condemn a firearm because if it's manufacturer . My best Friend has a Taurus G2 that he shoot's all the time and carries it. I would NOT have recommended it, but I'm glad I kept my mouth shut. He's can drive nails with that gun and it's never failed. I like all guns unless they're proven bad.


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## Pandaz3

Tangof said:


> Very pleased with my Glock 21 for example, but the G17 is way outclassed by the CZ 75b.


I too cherry pick Glock models, I like my G-33, the G-42 is a good 380, Grip a bit large on my G-20 and G-29. The wife is a fan of her G-17 and she claims a CZ is too heavy and complicated. I have a CZ Style gun in my EAA Witness Elite 10 MM that I love, but I would not carry it in the field as it is too pretty and too heavy. So I would carry the outclassed G-20 ,,,, if I did not have a better grip in the XDM10.

My range always wants us to use the safety or decocker, something I find easy to do, but I don't like it. The wife however hates it. So a CZ would not make it to the range for her, and it's why I can't use my safety equipped HK USP (lever too far forward for a damaged thumb). If I were to take a 1911 that would be great, but easier to use a plastic fantastic than a machined beauty,


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## Pandaz3

I carry a Taurus G2C in 40 S&W a lot.


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## PhuBai70

My first handgun was an early Taurus PT99 purchased in the mid 80s. I've mentioned before that I wanted a Beretta 92 but the $200 difference in price made me go with the Taurus. At the time I was supporting a family of five, a house payment and a truck payment so the decision was easy.
I compared both pistols that day and the Beretta was more solid with a tighter fit while the Taurus seemed to be looser. That may have been due to the older machinery Taurus was using at the time. 
At the range the PT99 always functioned reliably with round nose and hollow points but the accuracy seemed to be inconsistent but that probably was because of the looser fit. That didn't concern me too much because it was my home defense gun and if needed it would have definitely done the job at ten to fifteen feet.


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## Jessie James 58

Shipwreck. Since you feel Taurus firearms are so bad, you need to run out and buy a new 2020 Colt Python.
As we all know, Colt never makes a bad firearm!
I now have over 15,000 rounds through my TX 22.
Also 1,000 9MM, 750 38s and 425 357 mags through my Taurus 692. 
350 44 specials and 325 44 Mags through my 4in SS Taurus
And let me also add 400 45 long Colt and 275 full power 454s in my 6 1/2in SS Taurus
I have long since stopped counting the 22LR/22Mags out of my 6in Taurus Tracker.
In all this I broke one of the TX 22s barrel mounting posts (and yes it was MY fault) this happened when I had 7,200 rounds through the gun and Taurus still fixed it for nothing, also it was only gone foe a week.

For those people that think I am a Taurus Fan boy, I am not! If I were a fan of any Firearm it would be S&W, I also know that S&Ws have had their problems! All gun makers try to make good guns but sometimes bad guns get through.

PS I have already ordered a new Colt Python even though they have some reported problems right now.


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## desertman

Myself, I would never buy a Taurus or recommend that someone buy one. Especially when there are plenty of other guns out in the marketplace in that price range that have not had such a spotty reputation. This does not mean that all Taurus guns are bad. You may get a good one or you may not? As the saying goes: "You get what you pay for."

As with any product in order to manufacture and sell a product at a lower cost somethings gotta' give. Usually it's the initial cost of materials, the labor force, or the equipment used to manufacture any given product. As for materials there are different grades of steel, aluminum and plastic. As for the labor force you can't expect to pay a highly skilled person the same as that of a lessor one. As for equipment try drilling a hole with a dull drill bit, machining a piece of steel with a worn out milling machine or lathe.

Then there's the workplace environment. If you have a bunch of disgruntled workers and a high turnover of employees due to low pay and other issues. You can't expect them to put any effort in their work. If a company is not willing to upgrade and maintain their equipment it makes the workers job that much harder. A lot of them will just say: "f'k this, if the company I work for doesn't make my job any easier, why should I give a shit?" I've worked in manufacturing and have witnessed this first hand. It's all about cutting costs and makes all the difference between a good product or bad.

Indeed there is a market for lower priced products for people that are on a budget or just do not want to spend anymore than what they have to. That's their decision to make, not mine. That's a good thing, Taurus fills that need. But you just can't expect to get the same quality as that of a better one.

Whether Taurus quality control and products have improved over the last few years, I wouldn't know? Maybe they have, maybe they have not? When it comes to a product that your life may depend on would you be willing to take that chance?


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## PhuBai70

In the early days Taurus used older machinery from Beretta for their semi-autos. After they became established they upgraded but that was years ago. Maybe it's time for another upgrade.


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## desertman

PhuBai70 said:


> In the early days Taurus used older machinery from Beretta for their semi-autos. After they became established they upgraded but that was years ago. Maybe it's time for another upgrade.


I've worked on cars and guns for my own personal use for my entire life. I've done three complete restorations and built one street rod. I started out buying used cars for obvious reasons and when something broke I fixed it. Depending on what broke, I'd buy the necessary tools and parts simultaneously. After all the cost of the tools covered the cost of someone else's labor and at least I'd have the tools for later on when needed.

At the time I bought cheap tools as that was all I could afford. But they just didn't last especially the one's that were used the most. But I still have a Harbor Freight engine hoist that I've used over a half a dozen times. If I was pulling engines on a regular basis I'd certainly spring for a better one. But it did serve it's purpose and has been sitting idle for quite some time. I doubt that I'll need it again. The cost of that hoist paid for itself when taken into consideration if I had to rent one.

When I got into the car hobby and started my first restoration. I had no choice but to buy some reproduction parts that were made in Argentina. Of which the quality was not that great, but were good enough for the time being. Once OEM (Original Equipment Manufacture) or NOS (New Old Stock) became available I replaced them. They obviously cost a lot more, but in the long run well worth it.

One of the reasons why they reproduced those parts in South America is because there are a lot of people in those countries that are still driving around in 40+ year old cars. The parts were cheaply made with inferior materials as they had to be replaced often and kept affordable for those using them. When people in the United States started collecting 40+ year old cars those parts found their way into the American market and are still here. As the hobby grew companies within the United States started reproducing high quality reproduction parts that were just as good or even better than OEM or NOS parts. Partly due to CNC (Computer Numerical Control) machining and laser technology. Yes they do cost more.

From what I understand is that Taurus now manufactures some of their products here in the USA and have updated their equipment? That being the case I would expect them to be competitive with other brand name manufacturers in that price range. That's a good thing as competition usually results in innovation, better prices and overall quality. But Taurus just has to prove it if they are to remain in business and shake their poor reputation. Unfortunately at least for me and many others, I associate the name Taurus with those cheap foreign made car parts and tools.


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## Shipwreck

Jessie James 58 said:


> Shipwreck. Since you feel Taurus firearms are so bad, you need to run out and buy a new 2020 Colt Python.
> As we all know, Colt never makes a bad firearm!
> I now have over 15,000 rounds through my TX 22.
> Also 1,000 9MM, 750 38s and 425 357 mags through my Taurus 692.
> 350 44 specials and 325 44 Mags through my 4in SS Taurus
> And let me also add 400 45 long Colt and 275 full power 454s in my 6 1/2in SS Taurus
> I have long since stopped counting the 22LR/22Mags out of my 6in Taurus Tracker.
> In all this I broke one of the TX 22s barrel mounting posts (and yes it was MY fault) this happened when I had 7,200 rounds through the gun and Taurus still fixed it for nothing, also it was only gone foe a week.
> 
> For those people that think I am a Taurus Fan boy, I am not! If I were a fan of any Firearm it would be S&W, I also know that S&Ws have had their problems! All gun makers try to make good guns but sometimes bad guns get through.
> 
> PS I have already ordered a new Colt Python even though they have some reported problems right now.


I am happy you like your Taurus guns. I never said that ALL of them are bad. But, I still would not want one. Not even if you gave me one. I'd sell it immediately.

Sorry - to me, it will always be a "Low tier" gun. Why would I ever buy one? I can afford something better - and if I couldn't, there ARE other options that are "better" (IMHO) in the same price range.

I have been a gun nut for over 20 years - I have gone thru guns like water, and have owned 3 digits worth of guns in my lifetime. I will not be changing my mind.

There are also other brands of guns I am not interested in owning. Some I have previously owned. But, Taurus is on the top of the list...

As for your Colt suggestion... Nope - I do not need to run out an buy a Colt Python. I am not a revolver fan, and have zero interest in owning one. Sorry. One has nothing to do with the other.

That's like saying - "You like Pizza, so you need to run out an and buy a Frisbee" 

And, even if I was into revolvers, I don't think I'd be interested in a Colt Python. Sorry... I'd rather use that $$ for something else on my list.

However, today someone on another forum said that Taurus was "overpriced."

I agree. Taurus is WAY over priced!









THAT's my problem with them, I think. I think I would be much more accepting of the brand if they were 50% cheaper. THEN, they would be an acceptable deal!

Taurus' new ad campaign: "50% off - We're worth it!"

Man, I just got a job from their marketing department!


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## Shipwreck

PhuBai70 said:


> In the early days Taurus used older machinery from Beretta for their semi-autos. After they became established they upgraded but that was years ago. Maybe it's time for another upgrade.


It is my understanding that Taurus only used that equipment for their clone of the 92. But, that was like in the late 1970s - I guarantee that equipment has long since been replaced.


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## Shipwreck

desertman said:


> Myself, I would never buy a Taurus or recommend that someone buy one. Especially when there are plenty of other guns out in the marketplace in that price range that have not had such a spotty reputation. This does not mean that all Taurus guns are bad. You may get a good one or you may not? As the saying goes: "You get what you pay for."
> 
> As with any product in order to manufacture and sell a product at a lower cost somethings gotta' give. Usually it's the initial cost of materials, the labor force, or the equipment used to manufacture any given product. As for materials there are different grades of steel, aluminum and plastic. As for the labor force you can't expect to pay a highly skilled person the same as that of a lessor one. As for equipment try drilling a hole with a dull drill bit, machining a piece of steel with a worn out milling machine or lathe.
> 
> Then there's the workplace environment. If you have a bunch of disgruntled workers and a high turnover of employees due to low pay and other issues. You can't expect them to put any effort in their work. If a company is not willing to upgrade and maintain their equipment it makes the workers job that much harder. A lot of them will just say: "f'k this, if the company I work for doesn't make my job any easier, why should I give a shit?" I've worked in manufacturing and have witnessed this first hand. It's all about cutting costs and makes all the difference between a good product or bad.
> 
> Indeed there is a market for lower priced products for people that are on a budget or just do not want to spend anymore than what they have to. That's their decision to make, not mine. That's a good thing, Taurus fills that need. But you just can't expect to get the same quality as that of a better one.
> 
> Whether Taurus quality control and products have improved over the last few years, I wouldn't know? Maybe they have, maybe they have not? When it comes to a product that your life may depend on would you be willing to take that chance?


Sho nuff


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## Tangof

I'm not getting into the Taurus fight, I'll just relate my own experience. My first 9MM was a PT 92. This was in 1987. I still have it. It was followed by a PT 99 and some .22 revolver's and a .357 Magnum that all reside in my safe. I have never had to send one back. All have a lifetime warranty that I've never had to use. Fast forward to now. I bough the TX 22 and immediately had a problem with the magazines. I called Taurus and had a FEDEX label the next day. Nine day's later I was shooting the TX22. Two thousand and some change later I had a CCI Mini Mag HP catch on the chamber on loading. That;s it. I bought a second one as I was so pleased with the first. I'm at 764 exactly with the second. That's reliability. You'l note the 30 plus year gap so I can't speak to the Taurus gun's made in those years. I would carry that first PT 92 today as a self defense gun and not worry a bit. Sure my tastes's moved on to CZ's for carry and also because I'm a compulsive gun buyer. Poor Customer Service is a reputation killer and Taurus has led the league in that for a number of years. My only recourse has been the one time I noted. The CS was perfect. I can't help comparing the TX22 to the recent Glock 44. The complaint's I've read stopped me in my track from buying a G44. Now that's GLOCK, that everyone swears by. I do too. My G21 and G17 are 100%. The G44 had at least TWO Ka Booms! When have you seen a .22 blow up? Quit buying Glock's? People claim Glock's CS over their G30 problems was terrible. The new Colt Python is said to be flawed. Sorry for the long rant. Enjoy your guns.


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## PhuBai70

Shipwreck said:


> It is my understanding that Taurus only used that equipment for their clone of the 92. But, that was like in the late 1970s - I guarantee that equipment has long since been replaced.


Yes, Beretta had a factory in Brazil that was bought by Taurus who started making the PT92.
Like I said in my post, they eventually upgraded their machinery and I added that maybe it was time for *another* upgrade.


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## PhuBai70

Machinery is not the only factor but obviously it is important. About ten years after WWII ended Colt began making the SAA revolvers again but they were using the old machinery and the quality was not consistent. So they upgraded their machinery and the rest of the 2nd generation SAAs were some of the best ever made.


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## desertman

Tangof said:


> I'm not getting into the Taurus fight, I'll just relate my own experience. My first 9MM was a PT 92. This was in 1987. I still have it. It was followed by a PT 99 and some .22 revolver's and a .357 Magnum that all reside in my safe. I have never had to send one back. All have a lifetime warranty that I've never had to use. Fast forward to now. I bough the TX 22 and immediately had a problem with the magazines. I called Taurus and had a FEDEX label the next day. Nine day's later I was shooting the TX22. Two thousand and some change later I had a CCI Mini Mag HP catch on the chamber on loading. That;s it. I bought a second one as I was so pleased with the first. I'm at 764 exactly with the second. That's reliability. You'l note the 30 plus year gap so I can't speak to the Taurus gun's made in those years. I would carry that first PT 92 today as a self defense gun and not worry a bit. Sure my tastes's moved on to CZ's for carry and also because *I'm a compulsive gun buyer.* Poor Customer Service is a reputation killer and Taurus has led the league in that for a number of years. My only recourse has been the one time I noted. The CS was perfect. I can't help comparing the TX22 to the recent Glock 44. The complaint's I've read stopped me in my track from buying a G44. Now that's GLOCK, that everyone swears by. I do too. My G21 and G17 are 100%. The G44 had at least TWO Ka Booms! When have you seen a .22 blow up? Quit buying Glock's? People claim Glock's CS over their G30 problems was terrible. The new Colt Python is said to be flawed. Sorry for the long rant. Enjoy your guns.


Yeah, me too! That's the problem.

But I stayed away from guns whose manufacturers had a poor reputation. I learned my lesson with tools and inferior car parts. I have a bunch of Kimber's, people love to bash them too. I think mostly because of their use of MIM parts? The only Kimber I've had an issue with was with their ill fated Solo. That f'n thing never worked from the get go. My friend has three of them with all the same problems. I don't know why he kept buying them? Kimber stopped making them. All of my other Kimber 1911's, Micro 9's Micro 380, Two EVO 9's and K6 revolver have been outstanding.

Before I bought my first Kimber I read all the reviews both good and bad about them. From what I could tell and after handling and checking them out I figured I'd buy one. They appeared to be solid well made guns. Now that I own several I haven't been disappointed.

I don't shoot .22's very much even though I've got a bunch of them too. My very first handgun was a Colt 1911 in .38 Super, I still have it. Followed by an S&W Model 29 then a Ruger Redhawk and then and then and then etc.

CZ's are also outstanding handguns. I've got 5 of them. I've got quite a few Glocks too, none of which have had any problems whatsoever. Same for my Sig's and HK's of which I own several of each. Anyone who's ever read my posts would know that I'm a big fan of HK products.

I don't hate Taurus products, they're inanimate objects. I just wouldn't buy one for the reasons that I've mentioned. That's not to disparage anyone who chooses to buy them. What someone does with their money is their business not mine. They have their reasons for buying them, I have my reasons for not buying them.


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## Goldwing

I think if he were alive today, HITLER might have carried a Taurus.


Just spoofing guys. Lighten up about your Brazilian guns.

GW


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## desertman

PhuBai70 said:


> Machinery is not the only factor but obviously it is important. About ten years after WWII ended Colt began making the SAA revolvers again but they were using the old machinery and the quality was not consistent. So they upgraded their machinery and the rest of the 2nd generation SAAs were some of the best ever made.


I think that a lot of manufacturers have at one time or the other had issues with their products. Sometimes that's due to changes in management and corporate bean counters looking to save a buck. Along with shareholders who put the pressure on them. A lot of times these people do not know a God damn thing about the products they are in charge of manufacturing.

That shit happened all the time where I used to work. They always stuck their noses in everything but only made matters worse. We had a high turnover of employee's in spite of the fact that the job paid reasonably well and had good benefits. It seemed like we were always training new people only to have them quit. The quality of their products suffered and eventually they went out of business.


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## desertman

Goldwing said:


> I think if he were alive today, HITLER might have carried a Taurus.
> 
> Just spoofing guys. Lighten up about your Brazilian guns.
> 
> GW


I think that we can all thank God that Hitler carried a Walther.


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## PhuBai70

desertman said:


> I think that a lot of manufacturers have at one time or the other had issues with their products. Sometimes that's due to changes in management and corporate bean counters looking to save a buck. Along with shareholders who put the pressure on them. A lot of times these people do not know a God damn thing about the products they are in charge of manufacturing.
> 
> That shit happened all the time where I used to work. They always stuck their noses in everything but only made matters worse. We had a high turnover of employee's in spite of the fact that the job paid reasonably well and had good benefits. It seemed like we were always training new people only to have them quit. The quality of their products suffered and eventually they went out of business.


Yeah, many of the older gun companies have been bought and sold several times and the new owners only care about profits and not the reputation of the product.


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## Rancid

desertman said:


> I think that a lot of manufacturers have at one time or the other had issues with their products. Sometimes that's due to changes in management and corporate bean counters looking to save a buck. Along with shareholders who put the pressure on them. A lot of times these people do not know a God damn thing about the products they are in charge of manufacturing.
> 
> That shit happened all the time where I used to work. They always stuck their noses in everything but only made matters worse. We had a high turnover of employee's in spite of the fact that the job paid reasonably well and had good benefits. It seemed like we were always training new people only to have them quit. The quality of their products suffered and eventually they went out of business.


Don't get me started. I am retired, but have seen new management TOTALLY SCREW UP A GOOD THING more times than I can count. Taurus's new CEO is reportedly VERY aware of of the problems with their customer service (warranty repair) and quality control. Their reputation could be improved 100% simply by having RIGOROUS and THOROUGH testing of EVERY GUN before it is shipped, without having to change a flippin' thing in their manufacturing. No matter how super their manufacturing is, an occasional turd is going to come out. Simply *STOP SENDING THE TURDS TO YOUR CUSTOMERS*!


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## Shipwreck

I fixed the original post, 1st post on this thread (removed the non working links), and I put in some updated links as well (this thread goes WAY back)....

*Remember... If you WANT to buy a Taurus, and you know what you are doing - go ahead. Knock yourself out.*

*But, I made this thread for the gun newbie who knows zero about handguns... They walk in the door and see the price of the Taurus guns compared to everything else. Then, the know nothing sales person (usually at a big box chain store, because a good % of real gun stores will not even carry the brand) will tell the newbie how good the gun is.*

*Then, after the 1st range trip, they post at a gun forum, asking for help. And by the time they pay for shipping (in the past, Taurus refused to cover shipping - not sure about 2020), the gun was no longer cheap (it's over $50 to ship a gun back to the manufacturer).*


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## Shipwreck

I love this new video addition to the links  :

This is just damn sad...


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## desertman

Shake, rattle and roll.


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## Shipwreck

desertman said:


> Shake, rattle and roll.


*Defective Guns in The US: A Dark Tale With No Recalls*

See here too: https://www.johnuustal.com/blog/12/defective-guns-not-covered-by-u.s.-product-defect-laws/

People have died....

*How Defective Guns Became the Only Product That Can't Be Recalled*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ecame-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled

News of the settled lawsuit:

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...rop-fire-gun-defect-class-action-settles-38m/

https://thomasjhenrylaw.com/blog/product-liability/firearms-manufacturer-taurus-recalls-pistol/


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## Shipwreck

> Taurus's new CEO is reportedly VERY aware of of the problems with their customer service (warranty repair) and quality control.


Just like was said here, back in 2010 - Someone quotes an article about how the new CEO of Taurus (Mark Kressler) will help improve quality... : https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408285&highlight=taurus+quality

I then did an internet search of the CEO prior to Kressler. His name was Bob Morrison, and he was CEO in the earlier 2000s. I couldn't find even ONE article where he said he would improve quality... Go figure... 

In 2012, the Taurus CEO, Mark Kressler, promises "new products, better customer relations and higher quality": https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/taurus-no-more-bull/

But then in 2014, that CEO (Mark Kresser,) was fired... He was a CEO who had "led the charge at Taurus to tighten quality control."
https://www.guns.com/news/2014/07/3...ly-fired-its-former-after-company-acquisition

And, his replacement CEO plans to repair the Taurus reputation in 2014 (Anthony Acitelli): https://www.shootingsportsretailer.com/stories/interview-taurus-usa-ceo-anthony-acitelli

In 2015, that same CEO (Anthony Acitelli) said: "the agreement is a step to rebuild the brand's credibility". He was referring to a class action lawsuit about defective guns...
https://www.guns.com/news/2015/12/21/taurus-ready-to-rebuild-credibility-but-hurdles-still-ahead

Furthermore: Acitelli said: "A company that stands behind its product and is willing to do the right thing for the customer actually gives us credibility."
https://mhhlaw.net/taurus-ready-to-rebuild-credibility-but-hurdles-still-ahead/

Acitelli eventually left, and in 2017, the new CEO (David Blenker) said: "We have a very dedicated work force that is committed to making Taurus the top brand and I'm excited to be leading the team with this vision.
https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/taurus-usa-promotes-david-blenker-to-ceo/#axzz6PpJLkOTy

But, in Jan 2020, David Blecker leaves, and he is replaced by Bret Vorhees. Here, Vorhees, the new Taurus CEO, vows to improve quality in April 2020:
https://forum.mcarbo.com/t/taurus-letter-to-customers/9170

Yea, it's gonna happen....


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## RK3369

Shipwreck said:


> Just like was said here, back in 2010 - Someone quotes an article about how the new CEO of Taurus will help improve quality... : https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408285&highlight=taurus+quality
> 
> In 2012, the new CEO, Mark Kressler, promises "new products, better customer relations and higher quality": https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/taurus-no-more-bull/
> 
> But then in 2014, that CEO (Mark Kresser,) was fired... He was a CEO who had "led the charge at Taurus to tighten quality control."
> https://www.guns.com/news/2014/07/3...ly-fired-its-former-after-company-acquisition
> 
> And, his replacement CEO plans to repair the Taurus reputation in 2014 (Anthony Acitelli): https://www.shootingsportsretailer.com/stories/interview-taurus-usa-ceo-anthony-acitelli
> 
> April 2020 - The current Taurus CEO vows to improve quality:
> https://forum.mcarbo.com/t/taurus-letter-to-customers/9170
> 
> Yea, it's gonna happen....


yup, when Pigs fly!! Taurus is exactly where they want to be, in the cheap gun market. They have to produce a low cost unit to make any profit, so quality and customer service has to give way. They will never make a better product without a major investment in manufacturing and staff skills, and price will have to go through the roof. 
Taurus wants to be the Walmart of the gun selling business and they are doing exactly what their plan is.


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## Shipwreck

RK3369 said:


> yup, when Pigs fly!! Taurus is exactly where they want to be, in the cheap gun market. They have to produce a low cost unit to make any profit, so quality and customer service has to give way. They will never make a better product without a major investment in manufacturing and staff skills, and price will have to go through the roof.
> Taurus wants to be the Walmart of the gun selling business and they are doing exactly what their plan is.


You quoted me before I even finished posting all the links and details


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## paratrooper

RK3369 said:


> yup, when Pigs fly!! Taurus is exactly where they want to be, in the cheap gun market. They have to produce a low cost unit to make any profit, so quality and customer service has to give way. They will never make a better product without a major investment in manufacturing and staff skills, and price will have to go through the roof.
> *Taurus wants to be the Walmart of the gun selling business and they are doing exactly what their plan is*.


Never thought of it that way, but you do make a good point.


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## Rancid

Pigs are flyin' all over the place.


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## RK3369

Lots 


Rancid said:


> Pigs are flyin' all over the place.
> View attachment 18659
> 
> View attachment 18660


Lots of Taurus products still making it to market too.


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## desertman

Rancid said:


> Pigs are flyin' all over the place.
> View attachment 18659
> 
> View attachment 18660


Just as long as they don't shit on my vehicles, the bird's are bad enough.


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## desertman

RK3369 said:


> yup, when Pigs fly!! Taurus is exactly where they want to be, in the cheap gun market. They have to produce a low cost unit to make any profit, so quality and customer service has to give way. They will never make a better product without a major investment in manufacturing and staff skills, and price will have to go through the roof.
> Taurus wants to be the Walmart of the gun selling business and they are doing exactly what their plan is.


More than likely they use cheaper materials too. I'll harken back to Harbor Freight tools. At any rate you do get what you pay for. Somethin's gotta' give?


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## Rancid

I am still working on two pairs of nice 3-finger wood grips for my new 605 when it comes back in perfect condition. One set is lighter, with cherry wood tint with bronze Taurus medallions, the other is darker mango wood &#8230; with silver Taurus medallions. Do you happen to know where I can find flying pig grip medallions?


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## RK3369

Rancid said:


> I am still working on two pairs of nice 3-finger wood grips for my new 605 when it comes back in perfect condition. One set is lighter, with cherry wood tint with bronze Taurus medallions, the other is darker mango wood &#8230; with silver Taurus medallions. Do you happen to know where I can find flying pig grip medallions?


I'll work on that for ya....


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## desertman

Rancid said:


> I am still working on two pairs of nice 3-finger wood grips for my new 605 when it comes back in perfect condition. One set is lighter, with cherry wood tint with bronze Taurus medallions, the other is darker mango wood &#8230; with silver Taurus medallions. Do you happen to know where I can find flying pig grip medallions?


I hate to break this to you but the grips are probably worth more than the gun. Sorry, I couldn't help myself, no offense intended.


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## Dubar

My 709 Slim has performed just fine. It's a good, small,carry gun that fits in my pocket. If I've had a failure with it I can't recall what it was.

It is the smallest 9mm I have and prefer a larger gun like my FMK 9c1G2, Glock19 clone. The Canik TP9 FS is slightly larger than the FMK. If the FMK had the Canik trigger THAT would be the gun I'd want. The FMK simply fits my hand extremely well.

Better yet...if the Canik was the size of the FMK and fit my hand as well...THAT would be my gun of choice. The Canik Elite may just be that gun, will have to check them out.


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## paratrooper

Here's a picture of my Taurus .22LR and .38.

The .38 (Model 82) has a 3" heavy barrel, and the .22LR, (Model 94) a 4" barrel. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for .22LR revolvers and .38's.

The 94 is a 9 shot, the 82 a 6 shot.


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## Shipwreck

I hate to say it - but here is a PERFECT example of what I said 1 page back (posted just today): https://www.handgunforum.net/xf/threads/taurus-quality-is-very-poor.164964/#post-706472

A guy just joins the forum, and what is his thread about? You guessed it.

It is so, so horrible that this happens to so many people who have no idea what it is they bought.

I say it again and again - If you KNOW the chance you are taking, and you are familiar with guns - then more power to you. I will never understand your decision, as my life is worth more than a Taurus. But, that is your choice.

When this happens to someone who knows nothing about guns - that is just sad.

I can't tell ya how many times, over the years, I have been at the gun counter at Academy or Gander Mountain (before they closed). And, the salesman is showing a newbie a Taurus. When the salesman steps away - I often would tell the customer a little bit about Taurus... I only did this when it was someone who knew ZERO about firearms, and just saw the cheap price.


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## Rancid

Take a look at Harley Davidson and how they are struggling now to just survive. People are tired of paying $30,000.00 for a HD name plate. Royal Enfield just launched their new 650 twins a year ago, 7K out the door for a thoroughly modern, very reliable road bike with stellar reviews everywhere. The cheapest Triumph costs nearly 3 times as much, doesn't handle as well, and has barely noticeably more power. RE is already taking a big bite out of HD and Trumph's market share. The Taurus bashers better hope and pray that Taurus's new CEO can't get a handle on why their 1 - in - 1000 bad guns are getting out to the public, creating all the negative publicity and backlog of warranty repairs for further negative publicity. If he does, those lauded other makers will be in deep doo-doo. And it is a seemingly small problem to resolve. All he has to do is come up with a way to keep the few bad apples that come off the manufacturing line from getting shipped out for sale to us ignorant know-nothing gun owners, many of whom have been shooting for 55 years.


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## RK3369

I have two or three Taurus revolvers, I think. They have all worked fine every time I’ve used them. ive also had several of their semis over the years. Got some inexpensive also off gunbroker so I figured why not. One of them was a little PT22 I bought used. Paid $160 for it. Put about 50 rounds through it and the firing pin snapped off. I took it apart, knew the pin was broken and started looking for a new pin. Nobody sells parts or will fix them. Taurus CS said send it back they would fix it. Only way to ship is pay $80 for fedex overnight. Ok, I’m going to pay $80 to ship a $160 22 cal pistol? Nope. Sold it in an auction for parts. They are cheap guns and if you have one that works, lucky you. I would never carry one as an edc. I don’t trust them. Revolvers are fine for range shooting. Wouldn’t carry one of them either if I had to rely on it.


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## rickclark28

If the rumors are true and the new CEO gets the quality control increased and they start shipping a better product who knows. I give them credit for trying to change the QC because without it they loose money and fail. Do not want to see any gun manufacturer fail in the USA. It takes a long time to recover from bad products and market perception issues? They still have a market share and I do see many at the range using their products and some are happy. You do take a chance with anything you buy today! One of my neighbors swears by Taurus and the other one says do not let your daughter date a Taurus. So there you go.


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## RK3369

I question whether they can or will change their QC and product line. We’ve been hearing that for what, 10 years now? And are they any better than a decade ago? I don’t think so but I’ve gambled enough money with them over the years and been burned enough, I’m not willing to spin the wheel of fortune and take a chance on another one. What really soured me was their attitude and customer service, or should I say, lack thereof. I realize anything mechanical can fail, sure, but when folks talk about 3,4,5 or more months waiting to get a gun returned, what does that mean? If your car took 3 or 4 months to be repaired, would you stick with that brand or shop? Especially if you couldnt get the repair parts from anybody other than the car manufacturer? Ridiculous.


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## VAMarine

It will be interesting to see how this G3C? Pans out. Pre Sig 365 and G48 the wife was always interested in the Taurus PT111? For its size / capacity but the rate of return for warranties that the processed at the shop she worked at kept her at bay.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## RK3369

VAMarine said:


> It will be interesting to see how this G3C? Pans out. Pre Sig 365 and G48 the wife was always interested in the Taurus PT111? For its size / capacity but the rate of return for warranties that the processed at the shop she worked at kept her at bay.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


That was a dead giveaway, right there. Even Stevie Wonder coulda seen that one!


----------



## VAMarine

RK3369 said:


> That was a dead giveaway, right there. Even Stevie Wonder coulda seen that one!


?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## paratrooper

Rancid said:


> Take a look at Harley Davidson and how they are struggling now to just survive. People are tired of paying $30,000.00 for a HD name plate. Royal Enfield just launched their new 650 twins a year ago, 7K out the door for a thoroughly modern, very reliable road bike with stellar reviews everywhere. The cheapest Triumph costs nearly 3 times as much, doesn't handle as well, and has barely noticeably more power. RE is already taking a big bite out of HD and Trumph's market share. The Taurus bashers better hope and pray that Taurus's new CEO can't get a handle on why their 1 - in - 1000 bad guns are getting out to the public, creating all the negative publicity and backlog of warranty repairs for further negative publicity. If he does, those lauded other makers will be in deep doo-doo. And it is a seemingly small problem to resolve. All he has to do is come up with a way to keep the few bad apples that come off the manufacturing line from getting shipped out for sale to us ignorant know-nothing gun owners, many of whom have been shooting for 55 years.


Myself, I'd like to see Taurus improve overall. If they improved customer service as soon as possible, that'd be a big first step in the right direction.

No reason in the world why a company can't produce a well manufactured product at a fair & reasonable price that is appealing to the consumer.


----------



## RK3369

VAMarine said:


> ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Joke, my friend. High warranty returns would have even Shied a blind man away from that product.


----------



## rickclark28

Interesting thread for anyone considering a new Taurus.
So many Taurus's have been sold locally because of the shutdown and looting. Makes you wonder if they can keep up with the reported returns? Also how many issues are they really having? How bad is this Taurus quality issue? Is it more than internet hype? 
*2-6 months turn around for warranty work?


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Rancid said:


> ...Royal Enfield just launched their new 650 twins a year ago, 7K out the door for a thoroughly modern, very reliable road bike with stellar reviews everywhere...


Those Royal Enfield bikes are being made in India, where the labor is extremely cheap, not in Britain.

Because they're being made in India, even the materials from which they're being made is suspect to me. I'm not sure that I'd buy one, were I young enough to still ride a bike.

(So speaks a man who used to ride a Jawa: A bike made in Communist Czechoslovakia.)

I get the feeling that Royal Enfield is to motorcycles as Taurus is to firearms.
.


----------



## paratrooper

Royal Enfield has a long road ahead of it before it can be thought of as a quality product.


----------



## RK3369

rickclark28 said:


> Interesting thread for anyone considering a new Taurus.
> So many Taurus's have been sold locally because of the shutdown and looting. Makes you wonder if they can keep up with the reported returns? Also how many issues are they really having? How bad is this Taurus quality issue? Is it more than internet hype?
> *2-6 months turn around for warranty work?


It used to be at least 2 months probably 4 or 5 years ago. I heard reports of many who had them at Taurus for longer than that. I don't follow it anymore because I got fed up with their lousy CS when I was trying to deal with getting that cheap PT 22 fixed. I only now am aware of it because of hearing new reports of the same old problems.

Now here's a different one. During that same period I bought two SCCY 9mm semis. Relatively inexpensive gun. They worked pretty well but I had mechanical problems with both. Both of them snapped off the ejector pin withim the first 200 rounds. Called SCCY, they sent new parts the next day and I replaced both of them over time. One of them failed to extract the spent casing after about the first 50 rounds. Couldn't figure out the problem. The slide was moving back but the extractor was getting ripped off the shell rim and the spent case was stuck about 1/3rd of the way out of the chamber. Both guns were the same model. Thought about it and decided to swap out the barrels. That gun worked fine after the barrel swap. Turns out the Chamber milling must have been slightly out of spec on the one jamming so that after a few rounds to heat it up, it would lodge the spent case and not allow it to be extracted. Called SCCY about that one and they sent me a new barrel assembly no charge within a few days, replaced the bad barrel and never had another problem with that one.
Point is SCCY is another inexpensive brand but at least they stood behind the gun and didn't leave you hanging for parts or repair. I would have no qualms about buying another one based on that.


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## Goldwing

Rancid said:


> Take a look at Harley Davidson and how they are struggling now to just survive. People are tired of paying $30,000.00 for a HD name plate. Royal Enfield just launched their new 650 twins a year ago, 7K out the door for a thoroughly modern, very reliable road bike with stellar reviews everywhere. The cheapest Triumph costs nearly 3 times as much, doesn't handle as well, and has barely noticeably more power. RE is already taking a big bite out of HD and Trumph's market share. The Taurus bashers better hope and pray that Taurus's new CEO can't get a handle on why their 1 - in - 1000 bad guns are getting out to the public, creating all the negative publicity and backlog of warranty repairs for further negative publicity. If he does, those lauded other makers will be in deep doo-doo. And it is a seemingly small problem to resolve. All he has to do is come up with a way to keep the few bad apples that come off the manufacturing line from getting shipped out for sale to us ignorant know-nothing gun owners, many of whom have been shooting for 55 years.


I am sure that the quality fire arm manufacturers are quaking in their boots anticipating the meteoric rise of Taurus' quality control and customer service.
Get a grasp of what Taurus has done with their last four or five CEOs have promised and produced.
I would not own a Taurus if it were a gift.

GW


----------



## paratrooper

Goldwing said:


> I am sure that the quality fire arm manufacturers are quaking in their boots anticipating the meteoric rise of Taurus' quality control and customer service.
> Get a grasp of what Taurus has done with their last four or five CEOs have promised and produced.
> I would not own a Taurus if it were a gift.
> 
> GW


Well Hell......that sucks! I was going to send you one of these, just to see if you liked it. If you did, keep it. If not, I'd pay to have it returned to me.

https://www.taurususa.com/firearms/revolvers/44/44-revolvers-44-mag-6-round-matte-stainless-2/


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## Tangof

The Taurus TX22 is outselling the Glock 44 three to one. The feeding problem of the G44 magazines is being denied by Glock. The turn around time for a problem with a TX22 is eight day's, freight paid both way's. I've had two for over a year now, Accurate, reliable, with a great grip and trigger. Thousands of rounds fired with zero malfunctions not attributed to ammunition. And it holds sixteen shots. When do I start hating mine?


----------



## paratrooper

Tangof said:


> The Taurus TX22 is outselling the Glock 44 three to one. The feeding problem of the G44 magazines is being denied by Glock. The turn around time for a problem with a TX22 is eight day's, freight paid both way's. I've had two for over a year now, Accurate, reliable, with a great grip and trigger. Thousands of rounds fired with zero malfunctions not attributed to ammunition. And it holds sixteen shots. When do I start hating mine?
> View attachment 18673


Most, if not all Taurus problems and/or issues, begin at about the 13 month mark.


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## Shipwreck

Tangof said:


> The Taurus TX22 is outselling the Glock 44 three to one. The feeding problem of the G44 magazines is being denied by Glock. The turn around time for a problem with a TX22 is eight day's, freight paid both way's. I've had two for over a year now, Accurate, reliable, with a great grip and trigger. Thousands of rounds fired with zero malfunctions not attributed to ammunition. And it holds sixteen shots. When do I start hating mine?
> View attachment 18673


If you read what I said - I never said that 100% of the guns they make are bad. But, they have a lot higher % of issues than most other brands.

I do think that the turn around is longer now, though. I have seen people on various forums claim it is past 12 weeks now.

But anyway, I am HAPPY for you - that you like your gun and that it works. Good luck with it.


----------



## Tangof

Thanks. I'm somewhat of a .22 handgun fanatic and not a "Brand Loyal" guy. If it a gun shoot's well and is reliable, I say so. If the opposite is true I say that too.


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## Shipwreck

Some of my favorite Taurus vids:


----------



## berettatoter

Tangof said:


> Thanks. I'm somewhat of a .22 handgun fanatic and not a "Brand Loyal" guy. If it a gun shoot's well and is reliable, I say so. If the opposite is true I say that too.


I think Turi is doing pretty good with it's TX22.


----------



## Shipwreck

berettatoter said:


> I think Turi is doing pretty good with it's TX22.


Not fantastic...


----------



## RK3369

Taurus QC ain’t!


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## Tangof

FOURTEEN pages? Guy's, just don't buy one. It's that simple. If any of mine break in the future I'll let you know.


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## Shipwreck

Tangof said:


> FOURTEEN pages? Guy's, just don't buy one. It's that simple. If any of mine break in the future I'll let you know.
> View attachment 18933
> View attachment 18934


9 years worth of talking, and many pro Taurus fans have kept it going 

But, when I come across something new, I do add it here...


----------



## berettatoter

Shipwreck said:


> Not fantastic...


Well, not saying it's a Ruger Mk Series...


----------



## Shipwreck




----------



## RK3369

Another piece of quality equipment.


----------



## Budlight_909

i don't know about any past Taurus problems. i took my new Taurus G3c to the range yesterday, i ran 5 Federal Law Enforcement Premium H.P. 124 gr thru it, and it ran flawlessly. i then ran 50 rds of S&B 115 gr, and no problems.

i had even for the first time, practiced shooting with one hand, no problems.

in total as of yesterday, it has had 255 rds run thru it since i got it 2 months ago.

this Taurus will be my home defense gun, with my Glock 17 being my back up. 

reason for the Taurus to get the #1 spot for home defense?

here, if i have a shooting situation, the cops seize the gun, and ENGRAVE the police report # and the case # , INTO the metal. after they muck it all up, i'd most likely either not ever get it back, or frankly, i may NOT want it back, so to lose a less than $300 gun, is better than to lose a $600 gun.


----------



## Shipwreck

Budlight_909 said:


> reason for the Taurus to get the #1 spot for home defense?
> 
> here, if i have a shooting situation, the cops seize the gun, and ENGRAVE the police report # and the case # , INTO the metal. after they muck it all up, i'd most likely either not ever get it back, or frankly, i may NOT want it back, so to lose a less than $300 gun, is better than to lose a $600 gun.


I am not going to say it doesn't happen somewhere in the USA - but I have been in the criminal justice field for almost 30 years.... And, I have never heard of #'s being engraved into a firearm after it is seized as evidence. I've never, ever read that on a gun forum either... And, I'm on just about all of them...

Honestly - if you are defending your life, you want every advantage you can get. Every millisecond counts. My Beretta M9A3 is my night stand gun.It cost me $1000 plus tax. In the past, I have had more expensive guns as my home defense gun, or even my carry gun.

The gun is supposed to save your life. If it does that - you are alive... It paid for itself. Yea, it would suck to get it back months or years later rusted or damaged by the police. I'll admit, I would still want it back. But hey - you are alive.

Why you would pick a Taurus over a Glock 17 as a home defense gun, I'll never understand it. But, suit yourself. I personally think your reasoning for picking the Taurus over the Glock is flawed... I can understand you picking the Glock over a $3000 1911. But, a Glock 17 is around $550 or so.


----------



## Budlight_909

Shipwreck said:


> I am not going to say it doesn't happen somewhere in the USA - but I have been in the criminal justice field for almost 30 years.... And, I have never heard of #'s being engraved into a firearm after it is seized as evidence. I've never, ever read that on a gun forum either... And, I'm on just about all of them...
> 
> Honestly - if you are defending your life, you want every advantage you can get. Every millisecond counts. My Beretta M9A3 is my night stand gun.It cost me $1000 plus tax. In the past, I have had more expensive guns as my home defense gun, or even my carry gun.
> 
> The gun is supposed to save your life. If it does that - you are alive... It paid for itself. Yea, it would suck to get it back months or years later rusted or damaged by the police. I'll admit, I would still want it back. But hey - you are alive.
> 
> Why you would pick a Taurus over a Glock 17 as a home defense gun, I'll never understand it. But, suit yourself. I personally think your reasoning for picking the Taurus over the Glock is flawed... I can understand you picking the Glock over a $3000 1911. But, a Glock 17 is around $550 or so.


i have bought several guns now. from the cheaper Taurus, to my (as of now most expensive CZ 97B), all on my retirement checks. i still have other bills to pay. the wife's retirement helps cover some of the bills as well.

so for me, it is personal to lose what i have to pay for, with my meager monies. i cannot just go out and be a spender with no regards to not paying my other bills. if i were still working, then i could "see" losing the Glock.

but on retirement, we live meagerly, something that it seems to me, many others just think life is full of tree's that grow money.

this "sport/hobby", i am now involved with, i like it, wish i had started it as a younger man. but guess what??

FAMILY, BILLS came first..i ALWAYS was last in what i wanted.

so can YOU and the OTHERS see my reasoning for rather to lose a $300 gun over a $600 gun..???


----------



## Tangof

I'm not going to worry about a $1,000.00 gun or a $10,000.00 gun if my life or my Family's lives are at stake. You can't worry about money if your dead. Glock 21 with laser/flash light next to the bed.


----------



## Shipwreck

Tangof said:


> I'm not going to worry about a $1,000.00 gun or a $10,000.00 gun if my life or my Family's lives are at stake. You can't worry about money if your dead. Glock 21 with laser/flash light next to the bed.


Bingo. That was my point.


----------



## JamesCC

You’ve really done your research. At least now people can make their own informed decisions


----------



## RK3369

I can see the point of a less expensive gun but I can’t see the point of a brand with a well known history of performance problems when it is something that you might need to protect your life or your family’s life with. 
You can buy a cheap Fiat car but would you really feel safe riding in one when it’s the size of a soup can? Not me.


----------



## desertman

RK3369 said:


> I can see the point of a less expensive gun but I can't see the point of a brand with a well known history of performance problems when it is something that you might need to protect your life or your family's life with.
> *You can buy a cheap Fiat car* but would you really feel safe riding in one when it's the size of a soup can? Not me.


How 'bout a Ford Pinto or a Chevy Vega?


----------



## Goldwing

Most of my guns are "less expensive" guns. Not because they are shitty guns, but because I don't buy a lot of brand new guns, but I do buy high quality guns that have been well taken care of and that come from companies that have great reputations for quality and customer service
The point is the guns that I own have cost less but every one of them will shoot as well as I am able, and I am pretty damned able!

GW


----------



## RK3369

desertman said:


> How 'bout a Ford Pinto or a Chevy Vega?


Not safe either imo...especially the Pinto. They used to burn up I think.


----------



## RK3369

Goldwing said:


> Most of my guns are "less expensive" guns. Not because they are shitty guns, but because I don't buy a lot of brand new guns, but I do buy high quality guns that have been well taken care of and that come from companies that have great reputations for quality and customer service
> The point is the guns that I own have cost less but every one of them will shoot as well as I am able, and I am pretty damned able!
> 
> GW


Less expensive does not equate to unreliable. Many less expensive brands are reliable performers. Others, such as a certain brand we all know, seem to have a high tendency of performance problems. There are likely some good ones but overall reports seem to indicate less reliability than other brands. I have two Taurus revolvers and never had a problem with either but I don't carry either as an edc either. They are strictly range guns.


----------



## desertman

Budlight_909 said:


> i have bought several guns now. from the cheaper Taurus, to my (as of now most expensive CZ 97B), all on my retirement checks. i still have other bills to pay. the wife's retirement helps cover some of the bills as well.
> 
> so for me, it is personal to lose what i have to pay for, with my meager monies. i cannot just go out and be a spender with no regards to not paying my other bills. if i were still working, then i could "see" losing the Glock.
> 
> but on retirement, we live meagerly, something that it seems to me, many others just think life is full of tree's that grow money.
> 
> this "sport/hobby", i am now involved with, i like it, wish i had started it as a younger man. but guess what??
> 
> FAMILY, BILLS came first..i ALWAYS was last in what i wanted.
> 
> so can YOU and the OTHERS see my reasoning for rather to lose a $300 gun over a $600 gun..???


If you already have other guns and live meagerly, then why would you be willing to spend even $300 for another gun? Sorry, but I just don't understand that kind of reasoning. Especially when that $300 could be put to better use paying your family FAMILY, BILLS?

I could understand if you'd said it's the only gun that you own, could afford and it's better than no gun at all?

I don't know, but I would think that if you shoot somebody in self defense the last thing I'd be worried about is the value of a $600 gun? You're gonna' need a lawyer that's for sure as you will be taken in for questioning. Anything that you say could be used against you in a court of law. Not too mention that a civil suit may be filed against you by the individual of whom you shot's family. Or the individual themselves if they survived the shooting.

Yeah I know it sucks, but that's the way it is even when a shooting is justified castle doctrine or not. It's not like the cops come, pick up the body, shake your hand and and say: "Great job, have a nice day sir".


----------



## desertman

RK3369 said:


> Not safe either imo...especially the Pinto. They used to burn up I think.


I think that I would take the Vega? When push comes to shove I'd rather be broken down on the side of the highway then burned alive.


----------



## RK3369

Yup, those aluminum engine block Vegas would eventually die after about 60k but the Pinto's of old bring back memories of rupturing gas tanks and fires.

https://www.autosafety.org/ford-pinto-fuel-tank/


----------



## desertman

Goldwing said:


> Most of my guns are "less expensive" guns. Not because they are shitty guns, but because I don't buy a lot of brand new guns, but I do buy high quality guns that have been well taken care of and that come from companies that have great reputations for quality and customer service
> The point is the guns that I own have cost less but every one of them will shoot as well as I am able, and I am pretty damned able!
> 
> GW


All of these are the cheapest guns that I own. All were less than $350 and are in excellent condition. I doubt that they were carried that often as there's very little if any holster wear. Magazines though are getting hard to come by as are some parts. I bought them only because I like those older S&W Semi auto's. They're more of a collector's item(s).

However they're all functional, reliable and could be used as personal defense weapons if the need ever arises. At one time many law enforcement agencies used these when they transitioned over to semi auto's.

Because of the limited availability of both parts and magazines. They're not the kind of guns that you'd want to go out and put thousand's of rounds out of. Especially if they are the only gun(s) that you have.

Like with any gun you do have to practice with it to become proficient. In which case guns like these are better suited for someone who already has those skills. Because of that I would not recommend them for someone who'd never fired a handgun before as they will have to possibly put at least a few thousand rounds out of their gun to hone their skills. That being the case buying a new reliable gun from a reputable manufacturer is the way to go.


----------



## desertman

RK3369 said:


> Yup, those aluminum engine block Vegas would eventually die after about 60k but the Pinto's of old bring back memories of rupturing gas tanks and fires.
> 
> https://www.autosafety.org/ford-pinto-fuel-tank/


My friend had a Vega, I don't think that he even got that many miles out of it? His father bought it new for him as a Christmas present. He only kept it for a little over a year, it kept blowing head gaskets.


----------



## Shipwreck

desertman said:


> All of these are the cheapest guns that I own. All were less than $350 and are in excellent condition. I doubt that they were carried that often as there's very little if any holster wear. Magazines though are getting hard to come by as are some parts. I bought them only because I like those older S&W Semi auto's. They're more of a collector's item(s).
> 
> However they're all functional, reliable and could be used as personal defense weapons if the need ever arises. At one time many law enforcement agencies used these when they transitioned over to semi auto's.
> 
> Because of the limited availability of both parts and magazines. They're not the kind of guns that you'd want to go out and put thousand's of rounds out of. Especially if they are the only gun(s) that you have.
> 
> Like with any gun you do have to practice with it to become proficient. In which case guns like these are better suited for someone who already has those skills. Because of that I would not recommend them for someone who'd never fired a handgun before as they will have to possibly put at least a few thousand rounds out of their gun to hone their skills. That being the case buying a new reliable gun from a reputable manufacturer is the way to go.
> 
> View attachment 19033


Those 3rd gen S&W guns are light years ahead of any Taurus


----------



## desertman

Shipwreck said:


> *Those 3rd gen S&W guns are light years ahead of any Taurus*


Oh hell yes. If they were good enough for law enforcement agencies they are good enough for civilians as well. It's kind of a shame that they're not produced anymore?

Arguably the only feature that some don't like is the magazine disconnect? I'm only guessing that may have been a requirement by law enforcement? I'm speculating that if they continued that line of pistols they may have eliminated it?

I'd love to find a Model 39-2 ASP (Armament Systems and Procedures) or Devel version. Those were pretty cool little custom 9's. They only made a little over 400 of those guns. I've only seen pictures of and read about them. It was those guns that got me interested in the 3rd Gen S&W's. I saw one for sale a coupla' years ago that was auctioned off for over $5,000. It's a shame that S&W didn't mass produce and build their own version of that pistol? I'm not sure but I believe the Model 3913 was S&W's version of the ASP? Nice little gun but it's no ASP.

They even made a Lady Smith 3913. Basically the same gun but had an angled dust cover and the flats at the front of the slide were angled too. I guess they figured it gave the gun a more feminine look?


----------



## RK3369

Shipwreck said:


> Those 3rd gen S&W guns are light years ahead of any Taurus


I've got one of those and it's one of the ones I like the most of any. Great gun.


----------



## Shipwreck

Yes, I always wanted one, but new. I am not really into buying used


----------



## RK3369

Shipwreck said:


> Yes, I always wanted one, but new. I am not really into buying used


Hard to find one in good condition anymore. They've been around since the 70's. One in very good condition would likely be $300 or more, maybe much more.


----------



## Shipwreck

Well, the 3rd Gen ones were after the 70s. But yes, they have been around a while. Once I see at gun shows are always beat to hell.

I have seen some on Gunbroker over the years. I actually bid on one a few years back, but lost out... Maybe one day...


----------



## RK3369

Mine came from gunbroker about four years ago as I recall. Think I ended up paying close to $300 with the shipping and all. It’s had some use too but still runs well.


----------



## Budlight_909

desertman said:


> If you already have other guns and live meagerly, then why would you be willing to spend even $300 for another gun? Sorry, but I just don't understand that kind of reasoning. Especially when that $300 could be put to better use paying your family FAMILY, BILLS?
> 
> I could understand if you'd said it's the only gun that you own, could afford and it's better than no gun at all?
> 
> I don't know, but I would think that if you shoot somebody in self defense the last thing I'd be worried about is the value of a $600 gun? You're gonna' need a lawyer that's for sure as you will be taken in for questioning. Anything that you say could be used against you in a court of law. Not too mention that a civil suit may be filed against you by the individual of whom you shot's family. Or the individual themselves if they survived the shooting.
> 
> Yeah I know it sucks, but that's the way it is even when a shooting is justified castle doctrine or not. It's not like the cops come, pick up the body, shake your hand and and say: "Great job, have a nice day sir".


the wife and i are retired. our kids are on thier own, have thier own homes, kids, etc...we do not support them.

we live a meagerly life, as in we do not eat steaks 7 days a week, and we certainly do not eat cat food either. we live meagerly. but we do have bills, (who doesn't?) and what is wrong with someone spending what money he has? do you mean to say that ONLY YOU can spend money?

how someone, anyone spends thier monies, is thier business.

i cannot just go out and be a spender without regards to my other bills, means, i'd LOVE a Dan Wesson, or a Wilson, or Les Baer, but that's right now too much to spend, with my other bills, when the guns i have bought thus far are cheaper, and i have monies left over, being on retirement.

you don't "have to understand" the how's, or why's anyone spends thier monies, the comment was made that i have the Taurus G3c and it was just under $300, and i'd rather lose that low dollar gun, over my higher priced Glock that was $600 (with taxes), in the event of a home defense shooting.

then some said the problems with the Taurus over the years. which, when i watched videos on reviews of the Taurus brand, seemed like mostly customer service was a bigger issue. as i recall, many videos have been saying something like, "Taurus stepped up it's quality".

as of it's last time at the range, the Taurus did not hiccup one bit. took all the hollow points and ate them up (i only shot off 5 to see if that brand would work, and it did) but as of that day (this past tuesday) the G3c has 255 rds thru it. yes, not like 1,000 like some, but it is still brand new, and it is in the rotation of guns i take each week.


----------



## Shipwreck

Well, you do HAVE another gun. The chances of you needing it in a self defense situation are very, very slim. But, if it were me, I'd rather use something I KNOW will work fantasticly. And, honestly - you really don't have very many rounds thru that Taurus to say it will always work. 255 rounds and 5 hollow points is not enough of a test, IMHO - especially not on a Taurus.

But, it is your life. Choose what you want to do. You will do so anyway. And, I don't mean to give you a hard time. It's just that you are making a decision that I NEVER would. Good luck, and I hope you NEVER need to use ANY gun in a self defense situation. Good luck.


----------



## desertman

RK3369 said:


> Hard to find one in good condition anymore. They've been around since the 70's. One in very good condition would likely be $300 or more, maybe much more.


I paid around $350 for each one of mine. As you can see they are in good to excellent condition there are no scratches, nicks, dings, gouges or signs of holster wear. The internals don't show much wear either. I doubt that they were fired or carried very often? However they didn't have their original boxes and literature. I bought them about 5 years ago, I couldn't pass them up for the price I paid. I did polish the flats on the slide's of the stainless one's and the controls for aesthetics.


----------



## desertman

Budlight_909 said:


> the wife and i are retired. our kids are on thier own, have thier own homes, kids, etc...we do not support them.
> 
> we live a meagerly life, as in we do not eat steaks 7 days a week, and we certainly do not eat cat food either. we live meagerly. but we do have bills, (who doesn't?) and what is wrong with someone spending what money he has? do you mean to say that ONLY YOU can spend money?
> 
> how someone, anyone spends thier monies, is thier business.
> 
> i cannot just go out and be a spender without regards to my other bills, means, i'd LOVE a Dan Wesson, or a Wilson, or Les Baer, but that's right now too much to spend, with my other bills, when the guns i have bought thus far are cheaper, and i have monies left over, being on retirement.
> 
> you don't "have to understand" the how's, or why's anyone spends thier monies, the comment was made that i have the Taurus G3c and it was just under $300, and i'd rather lose that low dollar gun, over my higher priced Glock that was $600 (with taxes), in the event of a home defense shooting.
> 
> then some said the problems with the Taurus over the years. which, when i watched videos on reviews of the Taurus brand, seemed like mostly customer service was a bigger issue. as i recall, many videos have been saying something like, "Taurus stepped up it's quality".
> 
> as of it's last time at the range, the Taurus did not hiccup one bit. took all the hollow points and ate them up (i only shot off 5 to see if that brand would work, and it did) but as of that day (this past tuesday) the G3c has 255 rds thru it. yes, not like 1,000 like some, but it is still brand new, and it is in the rotation of guns i take each week.


You are 100% correct, how you spend your money is your business and your business alone. What I was responding to is that I just don't understand your reasoning? Your post left the door wide open for a response.

I know that if I was on such a tight budget and had other firearms the last thing in the world I'd being looking at was spending $300 for another gun? Based on the extremely remote chance that it may be taken as evidence if you used it to defend yourself. Which as I tried to explain that should be the least of your problems if you found yourself in that situation.


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## Budlight_909

desertman said:


> You are 100% correct, how you spend your money is your business and your business alone. What I was responding to is that I just don't understand your reasoning? Your post left the door wide open for a response.
> 
> I know that if I was on such a tight budget and had other firearms the last thing in the world I'd being looking at was spending $300 for another gun? Based on the extremely remote chance that it may be taken as evidence if you used it to defend yourself. Which as I tried to explain that should be the least of your problems if you found yourself in that situation.


i have pretty much started (and was told this would happen, by a good friend), that a collection of firearms. it's addictive. and sheesh, it is.

when i got the email from the LGS about a shipment of the "new" Taurus G3c and the price, i thought at that price (under $300) that would be a better way to try out the gun and if i liked it, buy a full sized one later.

as it was, i was also looking at the Taurus 1911. but i decided to go with a Remington R 1911 instead.

i "set aside" monies to buy my firearms, it's not like i have money under the mattress for anything i want to buy at any time.

it takes me "some time" to save up for what i want. (again in my earlier years, family first, bills first, i was always LAST in things i wanted/needed, like..uh...underwear...lol) ...now i want for me. i think i deserved it up to the point, the wife doesn't say a word, not even, "you'll shoot your eye out"....

this is why i want to buy some "lower priced" arms, so that i can build that collection, have fun shooting, rather than say think about resale value, or losing them to the police in an investigation.

my "higher priced" arms are solely for range use, not for the possible loss in an investigation.

in my mind, i am making sense.

look at my sig line and my small collection thus far.....not too many "El Cheapo" arms in the list, other than the Taurus, that' i'd hate to lose.


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## desertman

Shipwreck said:


> Yes, I always wanted one, but new. *I am not really into buying used*


Me either, those older S&W's are the only used guns that I've bought. Other than my very first first handgun a Colt 1911 in .38 Super of which I still have. It was made in, I think 1929? When I bought it I didn't know shit about handguns. Other than I knew that it was a Colt 1911 that I'd seen in God only knows how many war movies and documentary's. It had already been re-blued at least once and the price was right. Not only that but it introduced me to the wonderful world of handguns. I converted it over to .45 ACP using a Colt Commander slide and barrel assembly. I still have the original .38 Super parts in case I want to change it back. It has some holster wear, and pitting on the slide at one time it was my constant companion.

My second gun was an S&W Model 29 with an 8 3/8" barrel. That one I bought new and still have only I shot so many rounds out of it that I wore out the forcing cone and replaced the barrel with a 4 inch, bobbed the hammer and did an action job. I don't know why I ever bought a .44 Magnum other than wanting to go out and make a lot of noise? Both the 1911 and the Model 29 are what got me interested in working on my own guns.

The S&W semi auto's were impulse buys that I just couldn't believe the condition they were in when I first saw them. I bought them at different times and couldn't pass them up considering the price and condition.


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## desertman

Budlight_909 said:


> *in my mind, i am making sense.*


*That's really all that counts.* It doesn't affect my life in any way how you choose to spend your money.

My response was not only intended for you but for others who may be reading this forum looking for "food for thought". As there are many excellent used guns from reputable manufacturers out in the market that go for the same price or possibly less than a new Taurus.


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## RK3369

desertman said:


> I paid around $350 for each one of mine. As you can see they are in good to excellent condition there are no scratches, nicks, dings, gouges or signs of holster wear. The internals don't show much wear either. I doubt that they were fired or carried very often? However they didn't have their original boxes and literature. I bought them about 5 years ago, I couldn't pass them up for the price I paid. I did polish the flats on the slide's of the stainless one's and the controls for aesthetics.
> 
> View attachment 19036
> View attachment 19037


Those appear to be in great shape and well worth what you paid. Mine is pretty rough by comparison, esthetically not pretty but it runs great.


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## desertman

As a rule of thumb. One thing I've found about buying used items. That if the previous owner didn't care what the outside looked like (the part that you could see) then the chances are that they sure as hell didn't care about the inside (the parts that you can't see).

There are plenty of great used guns out there in the market place. A lot of them were owned by people who've hardly if ever fired or carried them.

Oh I almost forgot I did buy two other used guns my Beretta 92FS Inox and my CZ 40 P. Sorry about that. I think that's it folks? It was obvious when I bought these guns that they were hardly if ever used. Which for all intents and purposes they were new guns.


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## desertman

RK3369 said:


> Those appear to be in great shape and well worth what you paid. Mine is pretty rough by comparison, esthetically not pretty but it runs great.


At my LGS they call me a "frequent flyer". A lot of times I'll go there just to see what they've just got in? The more you go the better the chance of finding something as people are constantly buying, selling or trading. Not only that but the store manager and employees are my friends. Sometimes we (wife and I) go there just to hang out. As they say the early bird gets the worm.

There are a lot of people who'll buy a gun take it out and shoot it and for some reason or the other it's just not right for them. Some people just like to constantly buy and trade without even shooting the guns. Those are the guns that you want to look for on the used gun market. It also helps to know what to look for.

Is there excess wear on it's moving parts etc? The finish could be a dead giveaway. If the crisp edges are rounded and the roll markings filled to a certain degree. Then the gun was more than likely re-finished. Even a blued gun has to be polished out before it's blued. If the finish is original and in excellent condition chances are that the gun was hardly ever used. As anyone that does an appreciable amount of shooting would know just cleaning the gun will put wear and tear on certain parts of the finish.


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## Shipwreck




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## Shipwreck




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## Shipwreck




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## Shipwreck




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## Shipwreck




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## Shipwreck




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## pic

Should be a recall mandated by the ATF, or whoever. 
It's such a failure, possibly fatal


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## pic

I can understand newbies getting caught up buying a Taurus, People who should know better are buying the Taurus to save money is ridiculous


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## Shipwreck

*This gun is used by POLICE in Brazil. Manufactured by Taurus. It shoots when you press the trigger... And again when you release the trigger.*


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/7t8x3v


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## Shipwreck

This is just sad:

*How Defective Guns Became the Only Product That Can’t Be Recalled*



> Taurus executives have been unyielding as they go up against Wheeles, starting with the first suit he brought against the company, in January 2007. The suit in that case described how Adam Maroney was loading a doghouse onto his Ford F-150 pickup at home in Boaz, Ala., in February 2005. His Taurus PT-111 pistol, in a detachable holster and with the safety engaged, slipped out of his left back pocket and fell to the concrete floor of the garage. The 9-millimeter slug tore through his pancreas, spleen, diaphragm, and lungs, leaving him severely injured. When police arrived, they found the pistol with the safety on. Taurus opted not to settle the suit, which accused the company of negligence and failure to warn customers of defects in its pistol, preferring to try its luck before a jury.





> In a deposition, Morrison was defiant. Asked if Taurus Holdings Inc., the holding company for all Taurus operations in the U.S., was affiliated with Forjas Taurus in Brazil, he said he didn’t know. When Wheeles asked who owned Taurus Holdings—the parent of his employer for more than a decade—Morrison said he didn’t know. Asked whether Taurus tests the firearms it imports and distributes in the U.S., Morrison said he didn’t believe so, except for recent testing required in California. During a particularly tense line of questioning, Wheeles became frustrated and, according to the deposition, chuckled. “I’m not trying to insult you,” Wheeles said. “The answers that you are giving me are comical because you are being so evasive.” Morrison ended up admitting that there was a dangerous issue with his pistols: “My answer to the question—if you are referring to all PT-111s—it is: I believe that they can go off if dropped,” he said. In August 2009, a jury awarded Maroney $1.25 million in damages, plus reimbursement of medical costs. Taurus didn’t appeal the verdict.





> To understand the pervasiveness of Taurus’s safety issues, it helps to talk to Lívia Nascimento Tinôco, a Brazilian federal prosecutor in Aracaju, the capital of Sergipe state on the Atlantic coast. She’ll tell you that Taurus has a long history of selling guns that blow up or misfire, leaving a trail of injured, dead, or traumatized people. Almost all the victims in Brazil are law enforcement officers, who have no choice but to carry Taurus guns.





> Tinôco knew little about Taurus until July 2016, when Cristian Sobral, commander of the special operations units for the state Civil Police, walked into her office to talk about the Taurus guns his men were forced to carry. Some jammed, had their safeties fail, or simply went off on their own, he said. He showed her reports of multiple incidents, and then he put on some videos. They showed Taurus pistols being dropped from about waist height and firing when they hit the ground. “I couldn’t believe it,” Tinôco says.





> On July 15, 2016, she opened a formal investigation. Quickly, her investigators found reports of widespread defects in police service weapons—both pistols and long rifles, including the SMT-40 submachine gun—across Brazil. A 2014 report by the Justice and Public Safety Ministry’s National Public Safety Department revealed high rates of defects in Taurus guns purchased by police departments in 19 of Brazil’s 26 states; a 2010 test of 350 Taurus PT-840 police pistols showed 100 were defective.





> In August, Brazil’s lower house of congress held hearings on the alleged defects of Taurus guns. Police officers gave dramatic testimony about being injured when their service weapons misfired or about living with the death or injury of bystanders who were hit. A Taurus lawyer testified that the company was fighting 35 lawsuits in Brazil alleging misfires.





> The army, which regulates firearms in Brazil, requires law enforcement to buy guns made in Brazil. In 2008, Taurus bought its largest domestic rival, Rossi, and it now has effective control of 90 percent of gun manufacturing in Brazil, Tinôco says. This domestic monopoly allows Taurus to charge exorbitant prices, Tinôco’s investigation concluded: The PT-840, one of the most common pistols carried by Brazilian police officers, costs law enforcement agencies about $1,500 in Taurus’s home country. It sells for a fifth of that in the U.S.





> In July 2017, Tinôco filed a 174-page lawsuit in federal court in Aracaju asking a judge to order Taurus to stop making 10 models of handguns and submachine guns and recall all of them in circulation in Brazil, alleging the guns were defective. The judge ordered Taurus to come up with a plan to recall the 10 models within 90 days but stopped short of banning production. Taurus appealed in another court, arguing that prosecutors hadn’t proved its guns are defective, and won an injunction that blocked the recall. Tinôco has appealed that November ruling, but sorting out the case could take years, she says.





> A few years ago, police officers whose Taurus guns had misfired organized Victims of Taurus, a sort of advocacy and emotional support network for cops. In March 2015, they set up a group chat on the WhatsApp messaging system for its members. When a Bloomberg reporter was invited to join in mid-November, members posted a flurry of emotional testimonials: “Accidental discharge,” the first post by a police officer read; “Killing a passenger on a motorcycle”; “I had an accident with my CTT .40”; “Mine fired by itself, holstered and with the safety on”; “Shot in my leg when I saluted”; “Shot in index finger. … serious injury with permanent damage.”





> In 2013, Taurus stopped selling the nine gun models alleged to be defective in the U.S.: the PT-111 Millennium, PT-132 Millennium, PT-138 Millennium, PT-140 Millennium, PT-145 Millennium, PT-745 Millennium, PT-24/7, PT-609, and PT-640.
> 
> There are allegations, however, of a new kind of defect in at least one popular revolver that Taurus still sells in America. This time, the gun didn’t misfire; it blew apart, according to a lawsuit filed in September in U.S. District Court in Raleigh, N.C.





> On March 9, 2016, Michael Coleman, a veteran Durham County Sheriff’s officer, walked into the gun range at Eagle 1 Law Enforcement Supply in Raleigh. He carried the Rossi .38 Special +P revolver he’d bought for his wife, Joyce. It’s not among the guns Taurus agreed to fix or buy back. Joyce planned to use it for a conceal-and-carry course, but it had problems as soon as she tried to shoot it, hopelessly jamming after a couple of shots, according to the suit. Coleman sent it to Taurus for repair. Taurus told Coleman it had fixed the problem and returned the gun. The revolver broke again when Coleman tried to clean it; the firing pin simply fell out, the lawsuit alleges.





> Coleman asked for a replacement, but Taurus decided to fix it again. Now Coleman wanted to see if it was finally working. He loaded the revolver from a box of 100 Winchester .38 special full metal jacket rounds, which the gun is graded to use.





> Coleman knew his way around guns; he’d been a cop for a decade and now oversaw a special team at the Durham County jail trained to respond to riots. Before that he’d served 10 years in the U.S. Air Force. At the range he fired off some rounds, gripping the Rossi with both hands. When he switched to a one-handed grip and fired, the gun blew into three big pieces, his suit alleges. The force was so violent it took off Coleman’s right index finger above the first knuckle and shattered the remaining bone. His blood and tissue were spread across the firing range.





> It took Coleman three and a half months to recover enough to return to work on light duty and six months to get back to full duty. In his suit, he says doctors tell him the pain and tingling in his hand will never go away. Coleman accuses Taurus of breach of express warranty and negligence. (Coleman, through his attorneys, declined to comment for this story.) Taurus, in court filings, denied the allegations and alleged that Coleman mishandled his weapon. Wheeles says several people have recently approached him with cases of misfirings of Taurus gun models that are now on the market.





> Thousands of miles south, in Brazil’s São Paulo state, Rogerio Mello is still living his Taurus horror story. In 2013, Mello, an assistant Civil Police precinct commander and SWAT team leader in Ribeirão Preto, set his Taurus PT-640 service pistol, snug inside a detachable holster, on a little ledge while he used the restroom. He saw the gun slide off the ledge; he heard it discharge when it hit the tile floor; but he swears he didn’t feel anything as the slug tore into his abdomen, piercing his liver and right lung before stopping just short of his spine. “I couldn’t believe I’d been shot. There was no pain,” he recalls. He spent the next few years in and out of the hospital and then in court as his superiors fought his efforts to collect disability and damages. The police forensic ballistic report concluded the pistol may have been defective, causing it to misfire, but the state of São Paulo, his employer, accused him of mishandling the gun, which he denies. When he was well enough to work, commanders assigned him to his current post, in Serrana, a small town outside Ribeirão Preto, effectively demoting him.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ecame-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled


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## Shipwreck

*Taurus Trigger Lawsuits Filed Over Unintentional Discharge*



> A Brazilian gun manufacturer faces two lawsuits from U.S. citizens, claiming that triggers on Taurus 9mm pistols are defective, including one claim involving the death of an 11-year-old boy.





> According to Simms’ lawsuit, he owned the gun less than a year when, on February 15, he was trying to insert a magazine into a Taurus PT 609 9mm. The magazine did not go in properly, so he slapped it with the bottom of his hand. The lawsuit indicates that this caused the slide to spring shut, and the gun went off when bumped a second time. Simms claims he never touched the trigger.





> The bullet went through Simm’s hand, through his wife’s arm, and hit his son in the neck. The 11-year old boy died from his injuries.
> 
> A similar complaint filed by Friend alleges that his Taurus 24/7 Pro DS went off when it fell out of his holster and hit the ground in February 2014. Friend, a police officer, was shot in the leg. According to the lawsuit, the bullet caused serious nerve, bone and tissue damage. He had owned the gun for more than five years.





> In July, Taurus agreed to settle a class action lawsuit that claimed that *nine* of the company’s pistol designs had defective triggers, which could result in the handguns firing while the safety was engaged. That lawsuit was brought by an Iowa sheriff’s deputy, whose gun went off when he dropped it while chasing a suspect in 2013. There were no injuries in that incident.





> The same year, the Sao Paolo Brazil Military Police recalled 98,000 Taurus 24/7 pistols from officers after reports that the pistols were going off without anyone pulling the trigger.


Taurus Trigger Lawsuits Filed Over Unintentional Discharge - AboutLawsuits.com


And man, have you read the stories on gun forums after this lawsuit ended? What people had to go thru to get their guns replaced. And, what they got back was no where near what they sent in. Not same size, not same caliber in many cases. And, they waited forever.

And, many of the replacement guns didn't work out of the box.

Debacle city


----------



## Shipwreck

*THE TAURUS PISTOL DEFECT

*



> Despite robust settlement benefits designed to facilitate repair or replacement of pistols with a known and highly dangerous defect, relatively few class members sought settlement benefits. Counsel for the parties reported in September, 2019 that fewer than 20,000 guns (about 2% of the class guns) had been returned for inspection and repair.27 Only about 2,000 class members had filed a claim for a payment from the settlement, yielding cash claims for only approximately $200,000.28 Although the claims payment deadline is now expired such that no further cash claims are possible, the permanent warranty settlement benefit mean that guns can still be returned for inspection and repair. However, counsel reported that the rate of ongoing warranty claims had slowed to about 20 a week.29 Plainly, this means that many hundreds of thousands of class pistols will remain unrepaired, subject to firing without warning if a loaded pistol is dropped (whether the safety is on or not) or if the trigger is accidently pulled while the safety is on. Accidents will certainly continue.











THE TAURUS PISTOL DEFECT - Shattered - The Gun Accident Journal


In 2017, the Brazilian company Forjas Taurus (“Taurus”)1 recalled nearly a million of its popular pistols2 in the United States as part of the settlement of a class action lawsuit.3 The guns involved have a defect that sometimes causes them to fire even when the gun’s safety was in its “on”...




gunaccidentjournal.net


----------



## Shipwreck

*Alabama man files lawsuit against gun maker Taurus; claims safety defect killed son*



> Todd Wheeles, an attorney for Simms, called the boy's death a tragedy. He said the gun that killed the boy had been bought after the company had been made aware of the defects in the class-action lawsuit. Taurus had stopped manufacturing the models with the defects he said.





> When the gun fired a 9mm round went through the palm and lower ball of his left hand, stuck his son in the neck and stuck his wife's arm that was around her son's body.





> The lawsuit states that weeks after their son was buried, Simms learned that for more than 18 months a class action lawsuit had been pending against Taurus, which "had refused to remove striker-fired handguns, like Plaintiff's PT-609, from the market."








Alabama man blames gun maker Taurus in son's death


The lawsuit is among a growing number of cases filed against the Brazillian-based company claiming that some of its pistols have defective safety systems that cause them to fire when dropped or jarred.




www.al.com


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## Shipwreck

Who's with me, to run out and buy a handful of Tauruses today? C'mon, who will go with me?  

They make "quality" stuff, right?


----------



## Shipwreck

*Bullets Beyond Recall: Defective Guns Outside the U.S. Government's Reach*



> Soon after she arrived home and began to undress in her small walk-in closet, her husband, Paul, heard the bang of a gun from across the hall in his office. Judy saw a flame flicker at the muzzle. Within seconds, the gun lay on the floor, where it fell when Price took off her sweatshirt, and the fabric caught on her Velcro holster, tearing it loose. Later, she marveled at the groove the hot bullet left on her mint-green sweatpants as it traveled up into her stomach, tore through the internal organs along the right side of her body, and lodged in her liver, where it rests to this day.





> Modern-day guns like Price's are not supposed to go off when they fall to the ground, but Price says her Taurus PT 140 pistol, made by one of the world's largest gun manufacturers, was faulty. She sued Brazil-based Forjas Taurus, and its U.S. subsidiary, and later settled out of court. Her only face-to-face meeting with two company representatives in August 2011 ended on a hollow note.





> "You have a serious problem," Price remembers telling one of them. "You need to do a recall and deal with this issue, because the next person could die."
> 
> In reply, Price, 59, says, one of the reps said, "Mrs. Price, Taurus has no intention of doing a recall."





> Taurus denies allegations that its guns have defects, and the company declined to comment for this story.





> In Carter's lawsuit, plaintiff's attorneys commissioned approximately 500 hours' worth of testing, and their experts used high-speed cameras to capture the effects of dropping Taurus guns. Footage from the drops revealed, for example, that "the trigger moved all the way to back of the trigger guard, as if someone was pulling it," according to attorney David Selby.











Defective Guns Outside the U.S. Government's Reach


There is almost nothing to stop manufacturers who make defective guns, even if they accidentally kill people.




www.newsweek.com


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## Shipwreck

They are popular at the Better Business Bureau too 



> 04/29/2021
> 
> I purchased a Taurus *** brand new with a lifetime warranty through Taurus, from a gun shop in ***** July 2020. In November 2020, I noticed the slide was broken inside the gun. I was told by Taurus it would take 12-14 weeks to receive my gun back repaired, but could be as soon as 5 weeks. After calling several times, they mailed back my gun with no repairs saying it was within spec. I went back to the gun shop I purchased it from, they had four of their gun salesman look it, and the head boss then said to write a letter saying the gun was broken and for Taurus to honor their Warranty. I was told in March 2021 it would take 4 weeks. After waiting 5 weeks, I was told the guy who orders the parts from Brazil is on vacation and it will take longer before repairs are made. After speaking with the head of their customer care team, it seemed promising, but she has neglected my emails that she assured would be looked for. I want something done for my lifetime Warranty!!





> 04/19/2021
> 
> I have sent my Taurus 990 in 4 times. Taurus said unrepairable would issue replacement. Been a year I have sent in my Taurus 990 ser# ****** starting in March 2020. I received it back 4 times with the same problem of it jamming right out of the box the same day I received it. I've sent Taurus videos and after sometime they stated it's not repairable. Said I would get replacement but they haven't sent it or even know when they will get them in. I've been to numerous local firearm dealers and they have them in stock. Taurus claims they are on back Oder but local shops said they can get them or have gotten them because they are on the shelf for sale. So there is no back order and Taurus refuses to make it right or let me upgrade with paying the difference. Very poor customer service and been without a safe operating firearm for over a year now





> 02/02/2021
> 
> I have been trying to get my firearm repaired and when I was able to talk to someone on the phone at Taurus it was back in November 2020. They told me the part was restricted which is odd because it does not have a serial number and it is a not a regulated part by the government. Either way once I got the gun back from the gunsmith because he could not fix it or get the part either, I tried calling back to open a warranty service request. Long story short I made a call every day for 2 months and no one ever answered it just kicked me off saying call back. I tried emailing the company with no response multiple times. I did eventually open a service request on line, printed out the document, wrote a letter as it instructed and shipped the firearm via UPS. It was signed for on January 5, 2021 and on 1/29/2021 it finally showed on their website as received. I was like cool finally its going to get repaired. I went on line today 2/1/2021 to check status and now it shows like they did not receive it. Unless my firearm is repaired under warranty like I was told back in November I will NEVER purchase and will tell all my fellow firearms owning friend that Taurus is not a customer friendly business and do not stand behind their warranties. I owned a Taurus in the 90s when I was in the army and it was Great I had no issues. That is why i bought their .357 Model 66 7rd revolver, I liked the look, I liked the fit in my hand and I always wanted one but could not afford the cost of a S&W. Guess I should have saved my money and spent it elsewhere.





> 12/16/2020
> 
> MY TAURUS **. ** IS UNDER A LIFETIME WARRANTY . I sent for repair work , was told a 12 week turnaround . It took them 20 WEEKS , to get it back to me. Thinking repair was fine- took it to the range- fired less than 50 rounds of ammo- back to same initial problem , that it was sent in for. I sent back , 29 DAYS ago . TAURUS has now had my firearm tied up for over 10 MONTHS. after my last contact with you , a Taurus rep., did call me. For some reason , the rep. didn't sound as if he was an actual gunsmith . After , I fully explained , all of the problems, with firearm, I assumed it would be properly repaired . Again , Taurus returned - an unrepaired firearm . The firearm has 11 defects that I was able to compare , from a friend , with the same model . I sent 2 emails to TAURUS - SEPT. 3 and SEPT. 10 . Taurus has not replied , to my emails. BBB , I have sent this firearm - twice - to TAURUS REPAIR FACILITY. Each shipment was $85.00 . It's pretty frustrating to spend that much money , only to receive an unrepaired firearm . Taurus , while they had possession of my gun- had used up over 6 months , of down time , without making the necessary repair . I can't use the gun , until it's repaired - OR REPLACED . I am also hoping that TAURUS , reimburses my shipping costs . I can't send them the firearm , until I hear from them . I hate to say this , but I feel I'm being avoided by Taurus , for a return email . I thank you for your assistance. This firearm is my conceal carry , and I've been denied to use it - since FEB. 2020 -because Taurus customer service , is not too - service friendly . Ten months this has been going on ,$160 spent to send gun to Taurus , 2 times , only to receive it ,returned , unrepaired .





> 11/02/2020
> 
> Still waiting for revolver to return after nearly 8 months... I sent my revolver in for repair back in March and was told initially it would take 12 weeks to repair and return. Each time i call in or send email for status i get a different response and am told something different. I am yet to receive my revolver or know when to expect it. This is absolutely the worst experience i have had with a company. I do not advise anyone to deal with this company if you have any type of customer service or warranty issues.



This is a good one - Taurus is much better in service than they used to be, right?


> 10/01/2020
> 
> Sent an American Heritage pistol which was under warranty into Taurus International as instructed was told I would get a new one but did not In December I bought a Heritage M16 22/22mag pistol the first I fired it it broke. After many attempts I finally got through to Taurus and they told me to mail it in since it was under warranty. I mailed it via FEDEX on January 25, 2020. They received it on January 28, 2020. On April 24th I had not heard back so I sent them an e-mail on Aril 24, 2020 inquiring about my pistoI did not hear back from them so on May 4, 2020 I went on their website and found a "chat" feature I went on there and communicated with "Veronica" all they told me on that conversation is that it was going through the repair process and she didn't know what the ETA was for completion. On May 26, 2020 I still had not heard back so I again went on the chat feature and again talked to "veronica" again I was told the same thing, that it was in the repair process and they did not have an ETA on completion. I have contacted them a few times but then on July 13, 2020 they sent me an e-mail indicating that the gun was not fixable and they were going to send me a new gun to replace it (see attached email). On July 16th we sent the information to "Veronica" on how to ship it legally to an FFL. After sending them e-mails requesting an update. On July 29, 2020 I received an e-mail indicating it was on back order. On August 21st I sent them an e-mail requesting an update, I did not receive an answer. Since I did not receive an answer I sent them another e-mail on August 28th I sent them another e-mail with no response. I feel like I am being ghosted by them. I again sent an e-mail on September 22nd asking for an update and letting them know that if I did not receive any response from them I would have to take other avenues to get this resolved.




Taurus USA | Complaints | Better Business Bureau® Profile


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## Goldwing

I will respectfully decline the offer. I will say that there are plenty of quality pistols at my favorite farm and barn store and the prices are as good as pre pandemic prices.


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