# 200gr 38 special load.



## csanders41 (Apr 24, 2009)

Along time ago from what I remember reading, was the info that the New York Police Dept., who issued 38sp only to the officers used a 200gr bullet as the only official load that could be used.

This was before they started carrying Glocks and some free choices allowed.I 

the article I read said they have few failures with bringing their suspects down.

Any thoughts if they would be OK for home defense??????


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Without a velocity figure attached the 200 grain is meaningless. I would opt. for standard weight 38+P if my revolver was .38 spl.

I did opt. for 125 Gr. 38+P in a .357 revolver.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Sounds awful heavy for a for a 38spl load, I don't recall ever hearing about that one. I don't think you could get a hollow point to expand and penetration would be off the charts in a SWC i would think.Even Buffalo Bore doens't load that heavy.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

It's all about velocity.
During WW2, the British government-issue revolver load was, essentially, the .38 S&W cartridge loaded with a 200-grain bullet that went out at 620fps.
The theory was that a heavy bullet would do the job, even if it were travelling quite slowly. (Remember that the G.I-standard, .45 ACP load is a 230-grain bullet at 850fps.)
So if a .38 Special load included a 200-grain bullet, I imagine that the slug would leave its gun at about 800fps. In British terms, that'd be a Magnum!


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## NMpops (Nov 24, 2009)

Far as I know NYPD never issued the 200 grain load. They issued a 158 gr. LWC at standard velocity that did not perform all that well then switched to the 135 gr. Gold Dot +P load.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes,the std load they used was the 158 LSWC,it was a standard back then and some used it in the 357.

I haven't researched lead because I don't shoot it any more and haven't had a revolver for years,but the heaviest I've seen is a 180gr.I'm not sure if the 357 would lend itself to using a 200gr within safe pressures to be beneficial,I see a 38 coming apart.I can tell you those 180 grainers are quite a stout load,you don't touch off a box of them unless you like recoil.They hit fast and hard,IIRC a standard 44mag in a DA feels about the same.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

rex said:


> ...I'm not sure if the 357 would lend itself to using a 200gr within safe pressures to be beneficial,I see a 38 coming apart...


As I wrote before, it's velocity dependent. (That is, it's also pressure dependent.)
The load that fired the slow-moving 200-grain slug that the British used on their 0.380 Enfield pistol cartridge did not negatively affect the relatively weak, top-break revolver for which it was issued.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I know what you're saying,but that weight in that case just seems insane to me.Do you have any info on the effectiveness of that round?I would think it carried a good whack in close but shed power real fast.I wouldn't want to get hit with one for sure,but I think that weight for the caliber is insane if you don't start pushing the magnum,go 357Max,or wildcat it.Do you know how long this round was in use?Interesting round.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

That British 0.380 round was a duplicate of our .38 S&W, except for the weight of its bullet.
The pistol and its 200-grain, soft-nose, half-jacketed-bullet load was adopted in 1932. In 1938, the bullet was changed to a FMJ bullet that was about 25 grains lighter.
The gun, and its cartridge, was standard issue until 1957, when it was completely replaced by the Browning P.35 Hi-Power in 9mm Parabellum.

The replacement came about because WW2 experience definitively exposed the combat deficiencies of the cartridge.
Prior to its retirement (due to anemia, I suppose), several Commonwealth countries, one of which was Canada, had already switched to the Browning 9mm.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for the history lesson,I don't recall hearing about that round until you brought it up.You can learn something every day.


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## NMpops (Nov 24, 2009)

The 200 grain .38 Special load was called the "Super Police" it was a round nose soft lead bullet and was pushed along at a rather pedestrian velocity of about 650 fps. It was not much of a stopper. The 159 RNL wasn't much better. NYPD has never used or authorized a .357. The heaviest load I am aware of currently used in a .357 is 180 grains and it is mainly a hunting load, not recommended for SD as it doesn't expand well.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

NMpops said:


> The 200 grain .38 Special load was called the "Super Police" it was a round nose soft lead bullet and was pushed along at a rather pedestrian velocity of about 650 fps. It was not much of a stopper...


Hmmm...
That .38 Special "Super Police" load exactly duplicates the bullet weight and velocity of the British 0.380, government-issue (.38 S&W) round!
Interesting.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes,I don't ever recall NYPD going to the 357,but it was carried upstate before the 9 transition.It was actaully a good thing NYPD stayed withmilder rounds,their hit ratio was poor on a national average.While all buled are lethal,it may have been safer for the public to have the 38s flying around over 357s.

Those 180gr rounds I had were quite stout,noy bad in a SA but they weren't fun in a DA.

The worst round I ever touched off was a friends 5 shot Blackhawk wildcat.It was built off a 45-70 case with a 300 or 320gr bullet.He said when they did the ballistics on it,it beat his Ruger No3 45-70 out to 100yds.Sadly the No3 was the donor for the barrel.3 shots were it for me,this thing was downright violent.The power was very impressive,I never saw a bowling pin move so fast.The pin table was 10 or 12' off the berm and occasionally pins would land near the base of the berm.This thing slammed them straight back into the berm and hard,awesome power from a handgun.I think this was right at a hot Linebaugh 45LC conversion.With the Linebaugh,you build your load until you can't handle the recoil and use the previous load.I don't think I'd want to s 475.

Rambling again,sorry,


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