# .40 and GAP



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

I have never really studied the 40 cal. 
When I saw that Dave Savigny was using a 40 cal instead of the 45 for the production pistol championship, and with the comments on this Forum, it really started me wondering.
Today I really checked into it. 
I checked the lightest and heaviest FMJ and JHP ballistics and compared them to the 45 and 9mm.
I was I was surprised to find that the ballistics table, for energy, for the 40 was so close to the 45acp.
Actually I was astonished! 
I thought the 40 was a compromise between the wars between the 9mm and 45 but that seems to be true only in terms of diameters of the hole and in Relative Stopping Power numbers.

The 40's power in the same size gun as the 9 makes me wonder…..
Why did Glock even go to the costs of the 45GAP and for some reason it isn't selling well?
Does anyone have the skinny?


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2007)

I believe that Glock made a shorter cartridge with equivalent power to the 45 ACP to allow them to make a smaller grip frame for their 45 pistols. There are a couple schools of thought regarding defensive pistols: small and fast or big and slow to be simplistic. The popularity of the 45 ACP is huge and they were trying to cash in on that with a frame that fit more hand sizes.

I think the 40 S&W was developed when the FBI tried to go to the 10 MM but felt the round was too powerful for a LE round and recoil was too heavy, affecting accuracy with a longer recovery times in a gun fight. The 40 was the result of collaboration between S&W and Winchester to solve these issues. It's my nightstand caliber in a full sized Ruger P94 that has proven to be accurate and totally reliable.

As far as stopping power I think that any caliber from 38 Spl to 45 Acp will work with an accurately placed round. If you get it in the boiler room it will do the job.


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## JimmySays (Jun 8, 2007)

Glock produced the .45 GAP to get comparable ballistics with the .45 ACP into a pistol with the grip size of a 9MM/.40 S&W.
Appears to be a pretty big flop, because it never caught on. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Gaston was pretty much the inovator when the G17 came onto the scene, people didn't have much good to say about them to start with. Now there aren't many multiple gun owner's who don't have at least 1 Glock in their collection.


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*wildcat*

A partial thought. GAP and the 10mm fall into [partial understanding]
both rounds are good
both rounds are responsible defensive considerations 
both rounds can be learned to control.

Problems with either or both. They are 'Wildcat' rounds 
In long guns not an issue. Most "all" wildcats long guns are product of a small group deciding to manipulate a given cartridge for a "given" thought.
In this application it works fine "because" the developer does the whole thing; from case to bullet, powder, twist ratings. [mind you;] my thought is not complete. For argument sake.

Manufacturers have gone a long way to provide shooters with good reliable equipment. That being said.

Combat equipment doesn't fall into a true 'wildcatters' realm. Not looking for multi shots to protect or defend against mutiply aggressors. "But" hang on a moment" didn't all begin as 'wildcats' [true definition]

Now; we are in a day and age of war or the talk of war. [for argument sake] 
Go to [about] any country store;[NC] ask for a box of .22-.38-.45-30.30-30.06-12 gauge and more than likely its yours. Ask for a box or 9mm-.357- .40 and part of the time its yours 
Ask for GAP-10mm 
It doesn't justify having on hand; 200 million weapons don't use these.
For the Mass: 
Will the GAP fall along side the 10mm? only time will tell. 
My definitions fall into life experiences? maybe?
What is does fall into; our todays military uses about all the same units. Should a weapon break or quit; throw it down and pick something up off the ground; use the parts to fix yours or use it. Ammo? should be the same
The combat way


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Since on a practical level .40 will do everything .45GAP will do, I am not sure why the latter was ever created. The .40 works _extremely_ well for defense, and also for those competitions whose rules are set up to favor it (though no competition realistically replicates fighting with a pistol).

The sales reps who work at my civilian job report that many dealers can't give away GAP pistols, which I can understand. Why choose the GAP, with its limited ammo availability and higher cost, when the common and excellent .40 works just as well?


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## Singlestack Wonder (Nov 10, 2007)

With the advent of the G21 SF model, the sales of .45GAP models are definitely down. If you compare a Glock 37 and Glock 21SF, you'll find the slide is the same large slide with more rounding to blend it to the smaller frame. With the G21 SF, the frame's grip is almost the same size as a 17 or 22.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

i am not surprised at all
the 45 gap was just miss handled on its introduction
the 45gap is a good cartridge but is it that much better than 100 years of actual data and experiece
sorry - no


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