# 442-2 failed to fire multiple times



## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

I took my brand new no lock 442-2 to the range for the first time. Four to five times the ammunition did not go off after pulling the trigger. I fired 50 rounds. I shot 25 rounds of Sellier and Belloit wad cutters and 25 rounds of S&B 158 g . All of the rounds that did not go off were the wad cutters. After trying to strike the rounds again all but one fired. These 25 were from a box of 50. The other 25 went off no problem a week earlier in my 686. The primers were sruck but very faintly. Most of the rounds the firing pin made a deep dent in the primers, but the rounds that didn't go off had a small shallow dent. I have used this ammo numerous times before in my 686 and no problems. What do you guys think? Is there something wrong with the 442? Are these revolvers more selective of ammo? I'll try other ammo but I feel a little uneasy of this revolver now. Tell me I shouldn't of bought a Glock 26, instead.


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## astrogus (Sep 16, 2007)

The 1st time out with both my 640 and 642, I had 3-4 misfires each. I chalked it up to newness and/or internal hammer. I never had a problem with either after the 1st outing.


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

Thsnks for your help. It just seems odd to me.


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

This is a brand new 442 not used? If it is new, then it may be the ammo. If it is used, there is a possibility of some prior gunsmithing resulting in light primer hits.


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

Those misfires sound unusual. I would certainly try the revolver with several other boxes of ammunition. Try something domestic and known to be reliable before looking to the gun as the problem. Any further misfires with varied ammunition brands should result in contacting Smith and Wesson to have the gun examined.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

If new there could be burrs and particles in the works that need cleaned up. This could be true if used also.
A thorough cleaning is in order (opened up) and you need to examine the hammer for any drag marks that might indicate a burr slowing it down.

Part of the depth of firing pin depression in the primer is a result of the cartridge going off and pushing the primer back on the firing pin. Very light marks are result of insufficient firing pin force (gun fault).

Check the ammo in question for complete seating of the primers. They should be equal or below the surrounding brass. If not fully seated they will absorb some energy slipping into the case prior to the hammer being able to deform and ignite them.

Post a picture of a light hit and we can then comment from a more informed position.


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## astrogus (Sep 16, 2007)

I personally don't like shooting wadcutters. I get misfires AND spray out of my 686. I hate the intensive cleaning it requires(or I require) as well. I'd break that little beast in with some hot +p's.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

astrogus said:


> I personally don't like shooting wadcutters. I get misfires AND spray out of my 686. I hate the intensive cleaning it requires(or I require) as well. I'd break that little beast in with some hot +p's.


"Misfires" have nothing to do with shape of bullet. They are caused by defective primer, gun or cartridge assembly error when occuring in a revolver.


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## Joeywhat (Apr 17, 2008)

S&B isn't known for making high quality ammo...try it with some good stuff (made in USA) and see how you fair.


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

I know S&B is not the best ammo. It is the cheapest where I buy from, and it has worked in three other handguns that I own with out a hitch. I'll try a different brand and see how it does. Thanks TOF for teaching me about the pimer depression. It makes sense. :smt023


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## RevDerb (Jun 4, 2008)

tschmittel said:


> Tell me I shouldn't of bought a Glock 26, instead.


OK... you shouldn't have bought a Glock instead. :smt083


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Hey tschmittel,
Anything new regarding this problem?


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

I took it out to the range with some Winchester white box and some Mega Tech. It fired all of the Winchester but failed to fire more than half of the Mega Tech. I called S&W and explained my situation. The man on that I talked to asked me where I got the ammo, in Mexico. I told him that my older 686-3 fired all of the ammo with out a problem. He told me I was comparing apples to oranges. I told him that I thought a revolver should fire every time I pull the trigger. He told me I could send it in and they could take a look at it. I asked him how much that would cost me and he recommended Fed ex. He told me it would probably run me about $20. Needless to say I was less than impressed with their customer service.
I had a few problems with an M&P that I had previously owned and they sent me a pre paid tag to send it in. The 442 has been unreliable with more than one brand of ammo. The S&W guy on the phone made me feel like I was at fault. I don't know if I should call again, install a extended firing pin, ship it in at my own expense to have them tell me it's fine, or sell the damn thing. The last two new purchases of S&W products has left me very unsatisfied.


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

I am sorry that you have had these bad experiences with Smith. What about trading it in for a good used Smith or maybe a Ruger SP101?


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Sorry to hear you are still having trouble. My experience with S&W in recent years has been all that I could ask for. You might want to try again but not mention your previous call so as to start off on fresh footing. Sometimes a customer service rep has just finished a brutal call and doesn't rep their company in the best way.

Give it another shot in a friendly way.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

TOF said:


> You might want to try again but not mention your previous call so as to start off on fresh footing. Sometimes a customer service rep has just finished a brutal call and doesn't rep their company in the best way.
> 
> Give it another shot in a friendly way.


Exactly. Call again like you never called before. Have no attitude what-so-ever. Act like whoever on the other end of the phone is a life saver. Thank you, thank you, and thank you some more. You *LOVE* S & W, have a few, and you're soooooo surprised this gun is having trouble because of the great guns they make and their superb customer service. Blah, blah, blah, you get the idea.


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

You guys are probably right. It just seems that I should not have to kiss their butts, it should be the other way around. I put in a C&S extra length firing pin in it today that I got from Brownelles. It is about .03" longer than the old one according to my calipers. It does seem to protrude a little further than the original after the trigger is pulled. Wish me luck, I hope this solves the problem.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

tschmittel said:


> You guys are probably right. It just seems that I should not have to kiss their butts, it should be the other way around. I put in a C&S extra length firing pin in it today that I got from Brownelles. It is about .03" longer than the old one according to my calipers. It does seem to protrude a little further than the original after the trigger is pulled. Wish me luck, I hope this solves the problem.


Neither side should have to kiss any butt nor should they have to accept a berating either. If you approach them in a reasonable manner I expect they will respond accordingly. If you start out talking Sh** at them they tend to be non cooperative.

Your new firing pin might do the job but I don't expect it to.

Good luck.


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

I agree that neither side should have to kiss butt. I do feel however that for the chunk of money I spent I should get a reliable revolver. I was calm and polite when I talked to the S&W rep and didn't talk SH**. When I speak of my dissatisfaction with S&W, I refer only to my own personal experience with them. I'm confident it will all get worked out. Thanks.


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## wjh2657 (Jun 18, 2008)

I have owned S&W revolvers over a 50 year span and have never had one fail to fire that it wasn't an ammo problem. It sounds to me more like a spring problem or ammo problem. 

If gun was NIB, then send the gun back to S&W for check. If gun was used , and many that are sold as NIB are actually used, than it sure sounds like somebody did a spring swap to get a lighter trigger. Polishing parts and dry firing are always preferred to spring changes. 

Ammo wise. I buy nothing but factory new American ammo. For practice I buy Winchester WB at Wally World and like I said, never had a FTF.

Before giving up on S&W I would explore further why this particular gun/ammo combinmation isn't working. This just doesn't sound right.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Firing pin length does not increase and decrease between rounds fired. Something is either preventing it from reaching or softening the impact.

If it was to short it would not reach any of the primers. An extra length firing pin could possibly create an unsafe condition allowing an ND if dropped. I call it Negligent Discharge, should it occur, because it has purposly been altered creating the possibility.

Having been associated with manufacturing operations in Mexico during past years and knowing how things get done down there I am betting on cheap but defective ammo being the real problem. Probably improperly seated primers.

Good luck.


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

This is why I thought it might be the firing pin: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.ph...42+fire+rounds
None of the ammo that was tested was made in Mexico.


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

This is another reason I thought it may be the firing pin:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/8911095233?r=8911095233#8911095233


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

tschmittel said:


> This is why I thought it might be the firing pin: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.ph...42+fire+rounds
> None of the ammo that was tested was made in Mexico.


Sorry about that, I mixed this thread up with one relative to Mexican ammo. I guess my memory is starting to go. :anim_lol:

As noted in a highroad posting S&W shortened the firing pin design at some point in time due to drop safety concerns.

I realise the need to buy economical ammo but having heard from friends about the lack of reliability when using S&B I choose not to do so.

I have had recent experience with primer failures concerning my, at the time new, Ruger GP100.

Although the problem was with my handloads the experience is pertinent to primer problems in general.

The GP100 was my first need to reload .357 ammo so I purchased appropriate dies. I had a few hundred used .38 Spl. cases and decided to start with them.

I loaded several hundred .38Spl. rounds for initial breakin and general practice. They all performed as expected. Zero FTF's.

It soon became apparent that cylinder cleaning labor was increased by the ring formed when using .38 cases rather than longer .357's so I decided to only use .357 Mag cases.

I then purchased 600 NEW Winchester cases. The cases were cut on an angle so I trimmed all to length and looked them over pretty good but as later determined not good enough.

I experienced 2% to 5% misfires with the resultant ammo. I tried Winchester, Remington, CCI and Fiochi standard primers and still had 2% + failures. I then tried Winchester, CCI and Fiochi Magnum primers. Same result.

While going through the several thousand rounds of unreliable ammo I was also fine tuning the Revolver. I stoned and polished everything, purchased new springs etc. to no avail.

To make a long story short, I finaly ordered a Primer Pocket Uniformer. This is a tool that cuts a square corner at the bottom of the primer pockets.

I have not had a failure to fire since then.

The primers were going in the cases as expected but a very slight radius, probably due to tool wear at Winchesters supplier in Mexico, China or wherever, was stopping it slightly before it bottomed out. When the firing pin struck the primer would move forward just enough to reduce force applied to the explosive resulting in No BOOM.

The low cost ammo is generaly made from low bidder materials and sometimes it just isn't good enough.

I now know why many of my friends prefer Remington Cases over Winchester.

You may find a different cause for your problems but it just might be defective ammo.

Good luck


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## tschmittel (Jun 26, 2007)

I defer to yur greater amount of experience on the matter. The two revolvers I have owned prior to this fired everything I ever put in them with out exception. They are both older smiths, a model 10 and a 686. They both have a hammer mounted firing pins. Three revolvers firing the same ammo. Only one doesn't go BOOM. It's tough for me to blame the ammo. Got to love the 20+ year old revolvers.:smt023


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I must be the only person in the world that has never had a problem out of S&B ammo. I have no idea how many rounds of it I fired but it's been a lot. We're talking thousands out of many different guns. Both rifles and pistols both.

Not trying to say anything it's just an observation. I had tried it years ago and liked it because it is a little hotter and it grouped pretty well. I have to say though I had not used it all that much comparatively in revolvers. Mostly it was autos. I wonder if that's the case with others as well.


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

I am assuming that the 442 was purchased as a self defense carry gun. I would hesitate to do anything that might render it not drop safe. However, I would not want to have any weapon for self defense that does not go bang every time that I pull the trigger. 

I would still seriously consider trading it in for an older - pre lock smith. The nice thing about being a revolver shooter is that the used ones go for small prices. For example I just saw a nice Smith Model 60 - the older version that is in 38 special only - for 375.00. I bet that it could be had for closer to 300.00. Deals like that are just not that rare, when you are talking about double action revolvers.

BTW I read the post on the S&W board that you linked to your thread. I was amazed at the number of folks who said that they have reliability problems with their smith revolvers. I have owned close to 20 smith revolvers in the last 25 years. I have fired everything in them, ranging from reloads to cheap ammo to the best ammo that money can buy. I have never had a single reliability problem with my smith revolvers. I guess that I have just been lucky, or that some folks have been very unlucky.


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