# Walther PPS



## Quiet

Anyone have a Walther PPS?

Looking for reviews, cause I'm thinking about getting one.


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## Shipwreck

There is a review on the Walther Forum I believe.

http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/


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## nukehayes

Also the most recent issue of guns and ammo 'Handguns' has a pretty good review on it.


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## Quiet

Thanks for the info.


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## hideit

I have the P22 and it is the same dimensions as the PPS so my next gun will be the PPS. nice article in G&A sept issue - nuf said - i am buying one


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## spacedoggy

The only review worth getting is one from someone you know or renting one and reviewing it yourself. I know that's hard with new guns and guns that don't normally rent like this one. Magazine reviews are all the same. If they want to keep getting advertising dollars then what kind of review do you think your going to get?? Take the manufacture reputation which in this case is very good. Go to a show or store that has one and check out how it feels. I think doing that is better than any review. I don't get the 6 or 7 or 8 round mags and did not like the feel or looks. It felt the best for me with the 8 rd mag but you don't get them with the gun and right now good luck getting them. You get the 6 or 7 with the gun and the price is high. I would have to drop another 120 on mags so I'll wait a year before I think about owning one. I might get lucky and find someone at the range with one. The trigger pull wasn't bad felt like the QA.


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## slowbutvertical

*Question for Hideit*



hideit said:


> I have the P22 and it is the same dimensions as the PPS so my next gun will be the PPS. nice article in G&A sept issue - nuf said - i am buying one


Hideit,
I have the new PPS in 9mm, have put about 1200 rounds through it and still think it is outstanding. Regarding your comments about the P22 being the same dimension -- are you saying the holsters for the P22 will fit the PPS? If so, you will have solved the only issue I have with the PPS - not enough holsters. Thanks in advance.


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## fivehourfrenzy

I considered the PPS for a carry gun along with the P99c. Availability wasn't an issue as my P99c had to be special ordered, which would've been the same with the PPS. I haven't held or shot one, but I got to hold a 9mm P99c and it fit like a glove, so I went with that. I'd love to hold a PPS though.


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## B3nT

*I've got one, and it's very accurate*

Got mine in January at McBride's in Austin; I had to be put on a waiting list for a couple weeks -- and made a point to appear within a couple hours when I was finally called. McBride's got in two or three that time, and reported that the 8 or 10 they'd had in before had all been sold to waiting customers.

Its grip is considerably more slender than the P99, and so feels a little "sharper"; altough very comfortable, it's not quite as glove-like as my P99. In fact, the grip feels more like my PP, although mechanically, the gun is far more akin to the P99 than it is to the PP.

I'm not a dead shot, but offhand, at 15 yards, my right-to-left spread on the very first magazine was all of an inch and a half; the vertical spread was somewhat more, maybe three inches. I attribute this to the short sight radius; for me, it's easier to discern equal light spaces on either side of the blade than it is evaluate a dead-level across the tops of front and rear sights. Probably my aging eyes.

Resting the butt on my range stall's carpeted 4x4 block, my next three shots were all much closer together, about 1 1/2" vertically and less than an inch horizontally.

The first few mags were not centered on the bull; I had to learn two things:

1) POI - for me, with my PPS - is at the center of the white spot of the front blade. That is, cover the bull with the white spot, and it goes into the bull.

2) the smaller grip was causing me to over-squeeze the grip, causing my shots to pull to the right.

Of course, in more rapid fire and with less concentration, my groups open up a little more... and if I move back and forth from one gun to another, I do find that it takes a moment to readjust to the short sight radius.

I am very, very impressed with the accuracy. Trigger is still a bit gritty, but the pull is very even, and the second-stage and release are very crisp. As others have observed in this thread, it's more like the P99 AS trigger; my P99 is a QA (quite different).

Weight and balance are fine: it's not a lot lighter than the P99, but it's a LOT thinner. Size-wise, in profile, it really IS very close to my PP, and given the thickness and feel of the grip, it feels more like the PP.

As the online Guns and Ammo review reported, it's surprisingly smooth and comfortable to shoot, given its size and the 9mm load.

My Walthers:
P-38 9mm (WWII)
PP .380
P99 9mm
PPS 9mm


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## JBond

I have the PPS and I love it. I have not had a problem with it. It is fun to shoot and very accurate.

My Walthers
P22 3.4" barral
P22 Limited Edition with 3.4" and 5" barrels
PPK .380 Auto
P38 
P99 AS 9 MM
P99 AS 40 S&W
PPS 9 MM


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## IAWAPP

I have a PPS, 350 rds later not one problem. Great gun for a first time shooter.


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## Sidewayz

I have a 1st Edition PPS. Only 200 rounds so far but no issues at all. The size is great for concealed carry. It is exceptionally accurate for it's size. And I like it better than the FN FNP.40 that I had before it. And the FNP's are NICE!

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. They are hard to find though.


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## motorsporting

Suggestions on where to buy? I can't find one locally??!!


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## BeefyBeefo

motorsporting said:


> Suggestions on where to buy? I can't find one locally??!!


Just saw this on ar15.com

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=88&t=533897

-Jeff-


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## Sidewayz

Best thing to do is just keep calling around every couple days or so. I found that no one is able to pin point a date when the PPS's that they have on order will show up. The DFW Market Hall gun show is this weekend. Probably a stretch but I'd look there 1st thing Saturday morning. They open at 9am.


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## Sidewayz

Was anyone able to get a PPS at the DFW gun show? I was there but not til Sunday afternoon. And there was no Walther PPS to be found. Matter of fact I talked ot a few people about a holster for it and didn't know what the PPS was.

I did, however find a perfect fitting holster. It's a Galco speed slide for for A Glock.


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## Rocker

i had a PPS 9 and really liked it. Never had any issues. Biggest problem was finding spare mags (expensive) and a nice leather holster.. it was one of my favorite carry guns. Slim and light weight.


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## group17

I have a PPS 40 that shoots great. First time i shot it I would have a last round FTE every 3rd or 4th mag used until I put 100 rounds through it. Now I don't have a problem. Great pistol!


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## Hollander

I have both the 9mm and the .40. Love them both. I did put a Limbsaver grip sleeve on them and they both are more comfortable to shoot. Holsters are no problem anymore. Google up PPS holsters and you will find many. Look at RGrizzle Leather holsters. He makes one for the PPS. I have one of his for my EMP. Good work, good looking, well built. I have not had a problem with either gun, The 40 has about 400 rds through it and the 9mm about 250. Google up PPS and you will find some very good deals on the internet. Good Luck.


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## snotzzz

is it true that smith & wesson bought out walther? if so, is the price of a walther just inflated by s&w just because of the walther name? i ask because i'm now looking at the sig p250 and springfield xdm40. if walther is as good as some say, i'll look into them as well.


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## Bisley

snotzzz said:


> is it true that smith & wesson bought out walther? if so, is the price of a walther just inflated by s&w just because of the walther name? i ask because i'm now looking at the sig p250 and springfield xdm40. if walther is as good as some say, i'll look into them as well.


S&W does do the service on Walthers, in the US, but I hve not heard that they have bought them out, as yet.

The Walthers are good pistols, but certainly not better than Sigs or Springfields. In my opinion they are priced too high for what they are, they don't ship with spare mags, and the mags are expensive and hard to find, sometimes.


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## snotzzz

Bisley said:


> S&W does do the service on Walthers, in the US, but I hve not heard that they have bought them out, as yet.
> 
> The Walthers are good pistols, but certainly not better than Sigs or Springfields. In my opinion they are priced too high for what they are, they don't ship with spare mags, and the mags are expensive and hard to find, sometimes.


good stuff bisley, thanks!!!


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## Danslam

*Walther PPS Hands on Actual Review*

I was looking for a light powerful handgun for conceal carry. 
I bought and used a Walther PPS April 2011 and here is what happened.
I have owned 30 different weapon and have fired thousands of rounds.

Loading the magazine to full capacity was almost impossible. (I ended up with a bleeding thumb).
The trigger pull was great, the hand feel was great, (The felt recoil was a little less than 357 mag but more than 45 colt)
*Initial Inspection*
The pistol had metal shavings in it I removed on first cleaning prior to shooting.
The inside not well finished. (I have a Kahr K9 and a HKP9S and were much better finished)
The only part well finished was the barrel and the grip. All parts on slide action were not.

*Now for the first shoot*.
I have never owned a pistol that performed so poorly exept one. (Smith and Wesson Model 41)
I used Remingon FMJ ammo to prevent possible first time feeding problems.
It did not make it though 20 rounds when it started failure to extract.
It Jammed about 50 % of the time and difficult to clear.
I took it to on site gunsmith and to him the extracter looked defective.

Needless to say, this gun needs some work and caution those who are buying this pistol to protect you and your home. This gun is going back to the factory for wauranty repairs and will let all of you know how it goes.


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## LanceORYGUN

Danslam said:


> I was looking for a light powerful handgun for conceal carry.
> I bought and used a Walther PPS April 2011 and here is what happened.
> I have owned 30 different weapon and have fired thousands of rounds.
> 
> Loading the magazine to full capacity was almost impossible. (I ended up with a bleeding thumb).
> The trigger pull was great, the hand feel was great, (The felt recoil was a little less than 357 mag but more than 45 colt)
> *Initial Inspection*
> The pistol had metal shavings in it I removed on first cleaning prior to shooting.
> The inside not well finished. (I have a Kahr K9 and a HKP9S and were much better finished)
> The only part well finished was the barrel and the grip. All parts on slide action were not.
> 
> *Now for the first shoot*.
> I have never owned a pistol that performed so poorly exept one. (Smith and Wesson Model 41)
> I used Remingon FMJ ammo to prevent possible first time feeding problems.
> It did not make it though 20 rounds when it started failure to extract.
> It Jammed about 50 % of the time and difficult to clear.
> I took it to on site gunsmith and to him the extracter looked defective.
> 
> Needless to say, this gun needs some work and caution those who are buying this pistol to protect you and your home. This gun is going back to the factory for wauranty repairs and will let all of you know how it goes.


DanSlam:

I will have to call you out on your post slamming the Walther PPS.

First of all, this is the one and only post here on this website from you. It is apparent that you only joined this forum to come here and bad-mouth the Walther PPS. Looks to me that this is not a true review, but something written by someone with a clear agenda to make the PPS look bad.

Secondly, you purchased a used gun. Why on earth would you purchase any used gun WITHOUT FIRST FULLY INSPECTING IT BEFORE YOU BOUGHT IT? That is just such an extremely short-sighted and unwise thing for anyone to do when buying a used gun period.

Third, your inspection description is exactly OPPOSITE of my own experience in own two Kahr pistols, and two Walther PPS pistols. I've since resold both of my Kahr handguns, because the Walther PPS is such a superior handgun in every way, that I no longer had any need for them.

The interior finish of the Walther PPS is easily superior to that on the Kahr pistols. Even more important, the fact that the gun has a metal framework inside the polymer frame, and the slide travels on it is clearly a way superior to design compared to the frame of the Kahr pistols, which only have a few sparse metal inserts in the polymer for the slide to ride on. So I have to call your initial "inspection" report totally bogus and off-base, based on my experience.

As for the gun having a bad extractor, that could possibly be true. Many people are dishonest when selling used guns, and when they have a gun that experiences a problem or malfunction, they simply sell it off and unload the problem gun on someone else. So again, you set yourself up for potentially getting a lemon gun, by buying a gun used.

Whenever I buy a used gun, I purchase from a dealer that allows me to inspect the gun. If I am buying in person, I can thus avoid buying the gun in the first place. If I am buying from a dealer that is not local, I only purchase if they allow an inspection period, during which I can return the gun for a full refund if it does not pass my inspection. However, it clearly appears that you did nothing like this to protect yourself while buying a used gun.

If you do come back here to the forum to continue to criticize the PPS, I would especially like to see some photographs from you showing these so called inferior finishes on the frame and slide of your PPS. I just don't buy your description as being accurate, based on my experience.

I sold my Kahr P40 a long time ago, as I found it too difficult to shoot. Recoil was just way too uncomfortable in the .40 S&W caliber. The aggressive checkering on the Kahr's frame really dug into my hand and stung it, and the heavy slide on top of the super light frame gave it sort of a severe whiplash effect when it recoiled. Much more difficult to control and shoot well, compared to my PPS in .40 S&W

I tried a couple of other guns to replace the Kahr P40 with, before finally settling on the PPS. I did keep my Kahr PM9 for a number of years, though. I did not sell it until just recently.

Here is the last photo that I took of my Kahr PM9 before I sold it. I have my 9mm and .40 S&W PPS pistols on either side of it.


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## LanceORYGUN

snotzzz said:


> is it true that smith & wesson bought out walther? if so, is the price of a walther just inflated by s&w just because of the walther name? i ask because i'm now looking at the sig p250 and springfield xdm40. if walther is as good as some say, i'll look into them as well.


That is a false rumour that some folks who don't know any better have spread. The PPS handguns are 100% made in Germany by the company Carl Walther GmbH . Smith & Wesson is their distributor for North America. So they handle all sales and warranty servicing. This saved Walther the expense of having to set up their own company in the USA to sell and service their products. Quality handguns made in Germany tend to be a bit expensive. Labor costs are pretty high in Germany, and they have government regulations just as costly to comply with as we have here in the USA. Just look at the cost of HK handguns, which are also entirely made in Germany.

Here is link to their website:

Carl Walther GmbH

The Walther PPS is in an entirely different class of handgun size-wise, compared to the guns that you mentioned. So it normally would not be compared with those pistols. The PPS is small, and extremely thin, to maximize the ease of carrying it concealed.

Walther does have a brand new full size pistol that they introduced earlier this year, called the PPQ.

.

.


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## Packard

There is a Walther PPS forum/website. From reading the posts there, the PPS in 9mm is a perfectly reliable weapon. The same weapon in .40 chambering has be plagued with problems with failure to eject and failure to feed. The weapon was designed from the beginning to accommodate both calibers, but the 9mm was brought out first (without the same issues that are affecting the .40).

I would wait a while before ordering a PPS in .40; but I would be comfortable buying a PPS in 9mm now.

I am certain that Walther will resolve the issues with the .40s but until they do, for me at any rate, this is a 9mm weapon only. Once I learned that, I lost interest in the weapon.


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## LanceORYGUN

Packard said:


> There is a Walther PPS forum/website. From reading the posts there, the PPS in 9mm is a perfectly reliable weapon. The same weapon in .40 chambering has be plagued with problems with failure to eject and failure to feed. The weapon was designed from the beginning to accommodate both calibers, but the 9mm was brought out first (without the same issues that are affecting the .40).
> 
> I would wait a while before ordering a PPS in .40; but I would be comfortable buying a PPS in 9mm now.
> 
> I am certain that Walther will resolve the issues with the .40s but until they do, for me at any rate, this is a 9mm weapon only. Once I learned that, I lost interest in the weapon.


I frequent both the Walther Forums website and also the PPS Talk website and I would say that you are grossing misrepresenting the situation with the PPS in .40 S&W.

For one thing, you are extremely off-base in your description of when the different calibers of the PPS were introduced. The original 9mm PPS came out in the Spring of 2007. I bought one of them in in February 2008. I later purchased a PPS in .40 S&W in July of 2008 The PPS in .40 S&W began shipping in the USA in the Spring of 2008, roughly one year after the 9mm PPS was in distribution. So the 9mm PPS has been around for just over 4 years, and the .40 PPS has been around for just over 3 years. The .40 caliber model is not at all a new gun. Not by an means.

I've been shooting my fine for a long time now.


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## Packard

But there are many threads there on the .40 with issues and almost none on the 9mm in that regard.

The conclusion that a reader would draw from that is that there are issues with the .40 caliber weapons. Several of the threads were current so it sounds like it is on-going. What percentage this represents? I have no idea. 

But if I wasn't going to act based on the things I read there, then I would not have bothered to read it in the first place. 

It still sounds like Walther has not fully sorted out the .40 caliber PPS; I wish they had. It sounds like a better weapon than the Kel-tec (which is my first choice).


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## VAMarine

The only legitimate issue that I've heard occurring with the PPS is a result of the back strap coming loose during firing and rendering the gun unable to fire, a grip sleeve (featured in Lance's photo above) would hopefully prevent that issue. I have not heard (then again I haven't gone back looking for additional info either) if Walther made any improvements in the attachment method of the back strap to prevent this issue.

Lance, thanks for reporting on your 1st hand experience with these guns.


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## LanceORYGUN

Packard said:


> But there are many threads there on the .40 with issues and almost none on the 9mm in that regard.


Where, though, are you saying that you are seeing this? You don't even mention the name of the website that you are referring to here. Did you even bother to post any messages in the forum there, to get a better understanding of what was being discussed? I challenge you to say the name of the website you visited, so others can go there and judge for themselves.



Packard said:


> It still sounds like Walther has not fully sorted out the .40 caliber PPS; I wish they had. It sounds like a better weapon than the Kel-tec (which is my first choice).


Well, as I mentioned earlier, I've had mine for almost 3 years now, and it is still going great at this point. It is my primary conceal carry handgun.

I think that you have not taken enough time or made enough of an effort to adequately research this matter, and have made some quick, snap judgements that are simply not true.

.


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## LanceORYGUN

VAMarine said:


> The only legitimate issue that I've heard occurring with the PPS is a result of the back strap coming loose during firing and rendering the gun unable to fire, a grip sleeve (featured in Lance's photo above) would hopefully prevent that issue. I have not heard (then again I haven't gone back looking for additional info either) if Walther made any improvements in the attachment method of the back strap to prevent this issue.


I've never heard of any documented incident like that ever happening with a Walther PPS. I have the Limbsaver Pro Handgun grip on all of my favorite pistols. It is not there to retain the backstrap. I use it because it really enhances the quality of the grip that one can get, plus it makes shooting hot ammo a little more comfortable.

There have been a few cases of extractors breaking on both models of PPS, and also the spring for the slide stop failing. But those problems seem to be very infrequent. And they are not focused on a particular model like the .40 S&W gun.

The 9mm has been on the market now for 4 years, and the .40 S&W for 3.

There has been one single documented case of a PPS exploding a year and a half ago, and that was a .40 S&W model. But the general consensus was that bad ammunition was at fault. The owner was unharmed. He still blamed the PPS as being defective, despite the assertion by Walther that the ammo had been bad. They gave him a brand new pistol anyway in replacement. He got hostile with everyone online talking about the incident, though, and ended up saying that the was going to go sell the new gun and buy something else. The barrel ruptured right in front of the chamber.



















I really do highly recommend the Limbsaver Pro Handgun grip sleeves. They are far more comfortable than the Hogue Handall, in my opinion. I also have them on my full size 40 S&W pistols. These include my customized HK USP. It has been enhanced to accept longer 16 round magazines, and also has fully adjustable target sights installed on it:










And also my .40 S&W Beretta PX4 Storm ( shown here with Beretta's 17 round 40 S&W mag in the gun )


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## Packard

LanceORYGUN said:


> Where, though, are you saying that you are seeing this? You don't even mention the name of the website that you are referring to here. Did you even bother to post any messages in the forum there, to get a better understanding of what was being discussed? I challenge you to say the name of the website you visited, so others can go there and judge for themselves.
> 
> Well, as I mentioned earlier, I've had mine for almost 3 years now, and it is still going great at this point. It is my primary conceal carry handgun.
> 
> I think that you have not taken enough time or made enough of an effort to adequately research this matter, and have made some quick, snap judgements that are simply not true.
> 
> .


Well, I have not checked back at the forum for several months and perhaps I should have before posting. But the information was correct to my memory at that time.

The forum is: PPS Owners Forum


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## pps

I have a Walther PPS .40. The gun is easily the most concealable 40 I can find. A lot of people say the gun misfires or fails to cycle completely. This WILL HAPPEN if you use cheap amo. I have put about 2000 rounds through the gun using Hornady and Winchester and have had ZERO failures. If you can not afford the ammunition required do not buy this gun. This is the CCW pistol of choice. 


This gun has my stamp of approval.


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## hberttmank

I've got a 9mm PPS, it has worked fine from day one. No complaints from me, it's a great little CCW pistol.


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## group17

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I considered the PPS for a carry gun along with the P99c. Availability wasn't an issue as my P99c had to be special ordered, which would've been the same with the PPS. I haven't held or shot one, but I got to hold a 9mm P99c and it fit like a glove, so I went with that. I'd love to hold a PPS though.


My favorites


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## Jonathan926

Can't wait to get my PPS. Went to the local shop today and held one. It fits perfect.


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## bzuber56

What is the part number for the Limbsaver sleeve for the PPs?


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## Bulldog

I bought a PPS off a buddy of mine who needed money. He told me if I used cheap ammo it had a tendency to jam. Give it a good cleaning shot it. Nice little pistol. And YES it did jam with cheap ammo. He also has two of the .22 version which will spit out everything flawlessly. My wife loved the way the PPS felt. Now I love a .40 but this at times was uncomfortable to shoot. So I trade it and $25 for a brand new full sized M*P .40 with 6 extra 15 round mags and a box of hollowpoints. 

I am going to do some more research and check on picking up my wife a PPS 9mm. It is however my opinion that the PPS are good guns.


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## Daka

Walther PPS 9mm is probably one of the best handguns I have owned. I sold it to a friend because he bugged me for it, it NEVER misfired or FTE'd
I bought a Springfield XD9 Subcompact, also a nice gun but, it just seems too "fat" being a double stack, it's my EDC, also never a problem....
I like the grip safety on the Springfield, wish the PPS had it.
I will be selling the XD and buying another PPS very soon, and I do like the 7 round mags..the 8's are a bit long and make the gun heavier
if 7 rounds won't do it, you are SOL....(s**t outa' luck)
Besides in 35+ years of carrying, I have only needed to "get ready" to unholster ONE time..and that kinda went away....


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## firemanjones

I have a PPS for my carry gun. It is very accurate and the recoil is great for it's size
I haven't had any problems with it and I am very happy with it since it is my carry gun. I have a Limbsaver since it is very thin. It is my only striker fired pistol.


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## BearTaylor

I've owned and carried a PPS40 for almost three years. I'm a long distance motorcycle rider and the gun has traveled in my vest or leather jacket on a trip to PA (had to unload in Illinois), a ride to Sturgis, SD, a run to Laughlin, NV and several rides into Colorado. Of couse it's my normal carry gun while riding in Kansas too. It's accurate, doesn't jam and resists corrosion. I have 4 seven round mags, 3 six round mags and one five round mag for this compact pistol. I never feel I'm undergunned when it's with me. I always travel with at least 2 spare mags.


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## Posit

Got my PPS a week ago, after extensive research / reading of various forums. I followed the "Observations" information on the Walther PPS forum -- very helpful-- bought a limbsaver for it and an IWB holster from PJ holsters. The whole project came together very nicely.

I've put 200 rounds thru the PPS, WWB and Remington, no failures or hang ups. Accuracy is surprisingly good, trigger better than my Glocks, recoil reasonable. PJ's holster is reasonably priced, delivered quickly and works very well - the PPS is very concealable.

From any aspect... I done good!


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## chvym99

Got my first PPS about three years ago, it was the 9mm. I loved pretty much everything about it. I had the Hogue grip on it, just made it fit my hand a little better. It shot great, with both FMJ and HP rounds. The only time I had a problem is when I let a friend shoot it with me and he shot limp wristed. It was very accurate, probably more accurate than I allowed it to be, easy to CC, and easy to maintence. I had over 2000 rounds through it. Than someone got into my house and stole it. A very sad pissed off person, I was. I had three holsters and clips still and no gun. I debated on selling the rest and getting something else. But as I kept looking around, I kept coming back to the PPS. So I just got another the other day, as a suprise for Valentines day gift from my girlfriend. Now to go clean and oil it and head to the shooting range. Hopefully this one will be all the other one was. But I think I'll be getting a Limbsaver instead of the Hogue grip this time. I do like the looks of that one. Also to note. The new one came with two clip instead of one clip when I got my first one. Which was a shock.


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## ptco911

I bought a PPS this past Thursday and found both the Summer Comfort for the XD Subcompact and the Galco Ankle Glove for the Glock 26 both fit it well.


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## Daka

I was in "my" gun shop a few weeks ago looking for another holster for my Sig P238 (EDC) He just received 3 Smith and Wesson Shields that morning and had ONE left! Well, instead or replacing the PPS I had sold I bought the Shield...LOVE IT...as nice or nicer than the PPS for $200 less!


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## spaceba

Dan Slam I agree with your response on this issue . If anyone has watched some comparison videos on the internals of a Kahr it is clearly noted as to the inferior design of the Kahr. 
Further the PPS has some great design features ie. mag release for one H&K like but functions even better . Thanks Dan for calling out this guy.


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## floridaowner

Rocker said:


> i had a PPS 9 and really liked it. Never had any issues. Biggest problem was finding spare mags (expensive) and a nice leather holster.. it was one of my favorite carry guns. Slim and light weight.


I don't like leather holsters, they don't do well in the heat here, for me it's all kydex. As for the mags, I got 2 with the gun, I'll add more as I can find them. I never carry more than one spare anyway.


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