# Interesting article on mall shooters



## bps3040 (Jan 6, 2008)

Found this on another site. Interesting. Thought it was worth sharing.

When Seconds Count: Stopping Active Killers
Reported by: Brendan Keefe 
Email: [email protected] 
Last Update: 11/14 1:22 am

Related Links 
More I-Team Reports 
There have been so many school shootings over the last 40 years that researchers have been able to develop a profile of the typical mass murderer.

They're called "active shooters" or "active killers" and their crimes play out in a matter of minutes.

After the Columbine High School massacre in 1999, police changed their tactics.

The two student gunmen killed 15 people and themselves before the SWAT team was in position.

Commanders realized that it simply takes too long to assemble a tactical team in time to stop an active killer.

The new tactics developed in response to Columbine involved creating an ad-hoc tactical team using the first four or five patrol officers on the scene.

They would enter the shooting scene in a diamond formation with guns pointing in all directions.

This technique was employed by police departments around the country.

Then 32 people were killed by a lone gunman at Virginia Tech in April 2007.

Seung Hui Cho shot 47 people, 30 fatally, in the university's Norris Hall in just 11 minutes.

That means every minute he killed more than three people and shot a total of four.

Once again, the gunman continued shooting until a four-officer team made entry and then he killed himself.

Law enforcement reviewed its tactics.

Based on the Virginia Tech data, experts determined the first officer on scene should make entry immediately with an aggressive attack on the shooter.

Every minute the officer waits for back-up, another three or more people could die.

In other words, while it was once considered suicide for a lone officer to take on an active killer, it is now considered statistical homicide for him not to do so.

Tactical Defense Institute in Adams County, Ohio developed one of the first "single officer response" programs in the nation.

TDI was teaching the tactic even before Virginia Tech. Now the National School Resource Officer Organization (NSRO) is using TDI instructors to teach school resource officers how to confront a gunman immediately.

Locally, all Blue Ash police officers are trained in these new tactics in large part because their chief, Col. Chris Wallace, is also a TDI instructor.

The other statistic that emerged from a study of active killers is that they almost exclusively seek out "gun free" zones for their attacks.

In most states, concealed handguns are prohibited at schools and on college campuses even for those with permits.

Many malls and workplaces also place signs at their entrances prohibiting firearms on the premises.

Now tacticians believe the signs themselves may be an invitation to the active killers.

The psychological profile of a mass murderer indicates he is looking to inflict the most casualties as quickly as possible.

Also, the data show most active killers have no intention of surviving the event.

They may select schools and shopping malls because of the large number of defenseless victims and the virtual guarantee no on the scene one is armed.

As soon as they're confronted by any armed resistance, the shooters typically turn the gun on themselves.


----------



## Blackmagic14 (Nov 7, 2008)

I think that there should be some sort of way to CC on a school campus. Maybe more extensive training or something. Kind of like a CDL as opposed to a regular DL


----------



## bprince04305 (Oct 14, 2008)

Very sad but true. I wish people would understand that disarming people only makes it easier for maniac with the gun to do exactly what he/she wants. Anyone ever wonder what would happen if technically they broke the law by carrying on school campus, and actually "stopped the threat" of a mass murder what would happen to em? You guys think they d presented as a hero or thrown in jail?


----------



## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

Disarming the average citizen just makes the streets safer for the predators.


----------



## tekhead1219 (May 16, 2008)

bprince04305 said:


> Very sad but true. I wish people would understand that disarming people only makes it easier for maniac with the gun to do exactly what he/she wants. Anyone ever wonder what would happen if technically they broke the law by carrying on school campus, and actually "stopped the threat" of a mass murder what would happen to em? You guys think they d presented as a hero or thrown in jail?


You'd initially be praised, TV and newspaper interviews, late night TV shows, 2020, etc. Then you would be arrested and charged for murder, placed in jail and your family would be sued for everything you and them have. Sounds like America to me.:watching:


----------



## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I remember an article where a security guard of an apartment complex had seen a man that had been seen breaking into apartments. He tried to hold the man for arrest being he was trespassing and had been caught stealing there before. A chase ensued and the security officer finally caught the man and called police. The guard was arrested. Seems the place he caught the man was a school playground. This was at night and the school was closed. He had to chase the man for several blocks. But the law stated that you cannot carry on a school unless you are a LEO. So he went to jail.

I cannot remember the state anymore but thought the example fit in this thread. Even though you have done a good thing. The law can turn around and bite you.


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

bps3040 said:


> _"Every minute the officer waits for back-up, another three or more people could die.
> 
> In other words, while it was once considered suicide for a lone officer to take on an active killer, it is now considered statistical homicide for him not to do so."_


Sounds like 'Dirty Harry' had it figured about right, 35 years ago.

Better still, deputize any schoolteacher who is willing to undergo some rigorous training, and allow college students who can pass the background check and a CCW course to carry on campus.


----------



## bprince04305 (Oct 14, 2008)

Wow is all i have to say. That d be crazy to go to jail, sued, etc. when saved god knows how many lives by stoping a maniac. The security guard thing makes zero sense, and i bet the cops still happily arrested the burglar


----------



## Patient_Zero (Mar 14, 2008)

bprince04305 said:


> Very sad but true. I wish people would understand that disarming people only makes it easier for maniac with the gun to do exactly what he/she wants. Anyone ever wonder what would happen if technically they broke the law by carrying on school campus, and actually "stopped the threat" of a mass murder what would happen to em? You guys think they d presented as a hero or thrown in jail?


I was thinking about that the other day, and it's the third outcome that would concern me the worst. Cops get a call that there's a guy with a gun, and when they see the "hero" holding a gun, guess who gets the all expense paid trip to the coroner...


----------



## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

Patient_Zero said:


> I was thinking about that the other day, and it's the third outcome that would concern me the worst. Cops get a call that there's a guy with a gun, and when they see the "hero" holding a gun, guess who gets the all expense paid trip to the coroner...


I guess if I was ever in that situation I would want to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible and get my weapon back into holster before LEOs arrive; and just cross my fingers that if the law did show up sooner that they give me the opportunity to relinquish my weapon before firing on me. In my mind though the risk of being shot by police while trying to stop a maniac on a killing spree is an acceptable risk vs the possiblity of stopping a large number of needless deaths. Thats just my 2 cents though.

I agree with the people that posted that "No gun" areas only invite disaster though, because only law abiding citizens follow those rules. The criminals have no aversion to taking their usually illegal weapons into areas they are supposed to be banned from. :smt076 Personally I think that if someone passes the backround checks etc for a CC permit that they should be able to carry anywhere, except maybe on airplanes and in courtrooms.


----------

