# thin is in?



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

recent article from G&A said that 
thin is in or will be soon
do the readers believe this yes or no and why

there do seem to be some recent additions to single stack 9s and 40s and with kahr's upcoming pm45 is thin really coming back especially for ccw


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Single stack is easier to conceal under shirts and in pockets.


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## JimmySays (Jun 8, 2007)

People want the ulitimate firepower in the smallest package for CCW. Until they have to shoot it. Alot of people think they want small/powerful but they fire one round and touch the dragons breath and the weapon gets traded for something completely different.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Once you fire off 23 rounds without reloading you are mentaly hooked to Hi Cap. :mrgreen:

:smt1099


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

IMHO high capacity is great for HD, or the range. The gun I carry I like to keep them under 30ozs and really closer to 25 if I can. Like Mike says if your planning on missing a lot you might need a high capacity gun.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

TOF said:


> Once you fire off 23 rounds without reloading you are mentaly hooked to Hi Cap. :mrgreen:
> 
> :smt1099


Or you have a head ache. I'll take 8 rounds coming out a 1911 before 33 rounds out of a _____________?


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

now you're talking spacedoggy


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

When one considers how much interest the new single-stacks are generating, and how many persons across the nation are getting their CHL, I can see why thin is in....

PhilR.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Baldy said:


> IMHO high capacity is great for HD, or the range. The gun I carry I like to keep them under 30ozs and really closer to 25 if I can. Like Mike says if your planning on missing a lot you might need a high capacity gun.


Baldy, I am currently 249 pounds and 6' 2" tall. An extra pound doesn't matter a whole bunch. I shoot around 1000 rounds a month and don't plan on missing much should a problem occur. I know what Mikey say's and don't always agree with him either. I don't know how far the news coverage of Marijuana farms found in the National forest has traveled but it got to me. There have been some Large plantings found within areas I have hunted and played in, less than 20 miles from home. They were very large plantings utilizing several miles of drip irrigation equipment with product at or near $100 Million in value, guarded by AK47 toting Illegal Aliens. If I should inadvertantly stumble into one of these areas I want as high capacity as is available. Normaly the standard 17 round M&P9 or 15 round M&P40 with a spare mag will do. A 5 shot snubby just feels woefully inadequate anymore.

:smt1099


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

One single stack slim line gun for "formal wear", like the Kahr in my front pocket.

One Hi-Cap Big Bore (XD 45 or equivalent) for the drawer, and for informal work... like a cargo pocket.

I selected Yes, since I'd like to see new compacts, and I own one. But I'm happy I own both.

My dad had the same issue, on a smaller scale, in Upstate NY w/ the pot plantation... The NYS Troopers removed and burned 200-250 TREES off of his 60 acre spare hunting plot... Couple of red-necks with shotguns, as opposed to illegals w/ AKs... but I'd still feel nervous with a 6-shooter around that.

Jeff


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Well, once the Democrats take the White House and get AWB II, it's not like we'll have much of a choice. I am buying lots of full-cap Glock mags now. Still, mag capacity is about the last thing I consider when buying a pistol. All popular pistols carry enough rounds for defense.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

TOF said:


> Baldy, I am currently 249 pounds and 6' 2" tall. An extra pound doesn't matter a whole bunch. I shoot around 1000 rounds a month and don't plan on missing much should a problem occur. I know what Mikey say's and don't always agree with him either. I don't know how far the news coverage of Marijuana farms found in the National forest has traveled but it got to me. There have been some Large plantings found within areas I have hunted and played in, less than 20 miles from home. They were very large plantings utilizing several miles of drip irrigation equipment with product at or near $100 Million in value, guarded by AK47 toting Illegal Aliens. If I should inadvertantly stumble into one of these areas I want as high capacity as is available. Normaly the standard 17 round M&P9 or 15 round M&P40 with a spare mag will do. A 5 shot snubby just feels woefully inadequate anymore.
> 
> :smt1099


If I had to put up with the likes of that I would carry a .308 Black rifle and high cap/mags everywhere. :smt023 I would be dressed like Mike when he goes to work. Where I am at most crimes are just two thugs stealing a car or a purse. :smt033


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

From what I have been seeing most the people with a double stack on their hip have a CCW or a badge. I carry a single stack and and an extra mag. I don't really think I'll need the other mag though..lol. I don't plan on needing all of the first one. a well placed 45ACP does a lot to turn a situation around in my favor pretty quick in my experiences.

Hi-Cap is great though. There's a lot to be said about 15 rounds and no reloading (As in my P226). I have a shoulder rig that carries it pretty well. I just don't do it often being my caliber preference and the things I own have kept me old school I guess.:smt1099


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Baldy said:


> If I had to put up with the likes of that I would carry a .308 Black rifle and high cap/mags everywhere. :smt023 I would be dressed like Mike when he goes to work. Where I am at most crimes are just two thugs stealing a car or a purse. :smt033


I realize most, if they have an encounter , will not need lots of rounds. We all need to remember however these tools are intended as "Insurance" for the unexpected. If we were after total physical comfort we would not carry. I don't mind carrying a few ounces of extra insurance. Those that have dropped collision coverage on their car and then had an accident will understand what I am talking about.

Bottom line is, You should carry what you are comfortable and good with.

:smt1099


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## ki4dmh (Sep 11, 2007)

I ccw a Glock 21 every day. I love the 13 round mags.
Scott


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

DevilsJohnson said:


> I don't really think I'll need the other mag though..lol. I don't plan on needing all of the first one. a well placed 45ACP does a lot to turn a situation around in my favor pretty quick in my experiences.


Yes, you do PLAN on needing one. You may hope that you never do. Simply carrying a gun on a regular basis is "planning". 
I think it comes down to how many eventualities we plan on. The world is not a safe place, I carry a gun on the off chance I will need to defend myself. I carry a spare mag in case I need more ammo or have a jam, I carry a second spare mag in case I need more ammo after that, I carry a long gun in the car, I carry spare ammo for the long gun in the car, I carry water in the car, I carry food in the car...

None of these are bad ideas. I am just not that pessimistic. I carry a gun that I shoot well and can easily conceal. I carry a spare mag. I shoot often and get professional training on occasion.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

When I'm packing my little P3AT I always have a spare mag. If I'm carrying my G23 I often do not-mainly because I need a better mag holder than I made. I have Blackhawk Serpa for my G23.

I read an article on the new PPS tonight. I wanna see one now.


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

tnoisaw said:


> When I'm packing my little P3AT I always have a spare mag. If I'm carrying my G23 I often do not-mainly because I need a better mag holder than I made.


Not to beat the Galco drum again... You have got to check out the Matrix M15X mag case. I LOVE this thing. I wear it several days a week. I swear the mag (Wilson Combat 1911) jumps into my hand when using it.
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterC3.asp?ProductID=3421&CatalogID=424


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Well..Got 2 8 round mags for my Para LTC. If that ain't enough I must have really made a wrong turn somewhere:smt100 Of course if I'm around my Jeep I do have the trusty ol' 40VE Smith that's 2 more 14's. I do havea long gun in there most the time also but for me that's more for dinner planning..lol. Thing is in that whole planning thing if I planned for every kind of craziness then I'd look like Arnold on one of those Terminator flicks. I live pretty far out in the woods so it's not usually people that I'm all that worried about. that in mind I can see if one as in a more populated area then a hi-cap might make a lot more sense for me :smt1099


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Old Padawan said:


> Not to beat the Galco drum again... You have got to check out the Matrix M15X mag case. I LOVE this thing. I wear it several days a week. I swear the mag (Wilson Combat 1911) jumps into my hand when using it.
> http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterC3.asp?ProductID=3421&CatalogID=424


Looks nice but they didn't say it worked for a .380.


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## Hokkmike (Oct 22, 2007)

Most, I think, favor high capacity over thin.


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

tnoisaw said:


> Looks nice but they didn't say it worked for a .380.


WOOPS. SORRTY ABOUT THAT. ITS NOT MADE FOR A .380.


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*yep*



hideit said:


> is thin really coming back especially for ccw


~ for some of us, it never left ...


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Old Padawan said:


> Yes, you do PLAN on needing one. You may hope that you never do. Simply carrying a gun on a regular basis is "planning".
> I think it comes down to how many eventualities we plan on. The world is not a safe place, I carry a gun on the off chance I will need to defend myself. I carry a spare mag in case I need more ammo or have a jam, I carry a second spare mag in case I need more ammo after that, I carry a long gun in the car, I carry spare ammo for the long gun in the car, I carry water in the car, I carry food in the car...
> 
> None of these are bad ideas. I am just not that pessimistic. I carry a gun that I shoot well and can easily conceal. I carry a spare mag. I shoot often and get professional training on occasion.


I use to carry on and off when I lived in CT. I feel safer here in Texas but I carry a primary and secondary pistol at all times. I have one in my manbag that I take to the car every time I leave. It has mags, flashlights, spare everything and my Judge for my car defense.

Today I asked my wife if it bother her that I wear a gun at all time, even my pajama kel-tec and carry all this stuff. She said not at all, makes her feel safer.

The one thing I don't want to happen to me is someday be in a situation wear I needed to defend myself or even worst defend my wife that means more to me than anything in this world and not have the necessary items on me. Now when I get dress to go to church and I leave my holster off it feels strange. I take everything with me in my bag and after church when I'm leaving the parking lot I am loading up. One time I told my wife I would wait in the car as she was talking with many after church. I watch and I swear it looked like every other car, trucks down here, when leaving looked like people were arming themselves. I did see three pistols two coming from the center box and one from the glovebox in three trucks. That day I would have to say around 25 people were getting their gear on when leaving the parking lot. That's when I said I'm sure glad I live in Texas. If my gun jams there is a dam good change that another Texan will be there to back me up.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

I carry my P3AT to church. It's small enough and violence, sadley, happens all to often in church. What better place to find unarmed people.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

You can never be too thin or too rich, so said somebody a long time ago. For me, the thin part cetainly applies to guns. I just traded in a wonderful XD9 SC for a Kahr CW9. Giving up 16 rounds for 7 might seem like a harsh tradeoff, but those 16 rounds were not doing me any good because the XD was just too big to carry. Now I have thin, the Kahr, and thinner, my 3PAT.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

The one thing about teh cooler months ahead is that carrying concealed will be a little easier. I like my P226 Sig a lot more then :smt023


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

I like my p3at also!


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> The one thing I don't want to happen to me is someday be in a situation wear I needed to defend myself or even worst defend my wife that means more to me than anything in this world and not have the necessary items on me. Now when I get dress to go to church and I leave my holster off it feels strange.


Why are you taking your gun off to go to church? Criminals may not come to church, but crazy pople do. 
Your opponent gets to choose the field of battle. Your opponent gets to choose the time of battle.
ALLWAYS be armed. If you are not armed and your opponent is, you are at a further disadvantage.

As police investigate a violent Saturday morning church service in suburban Milwaukee, it appears none of the congregation was worried, or had any reason to be, when they saw Terry Ratzmann, 44, walk into the service.

It had been a couple of weeks since he had last joined the Living Church of God congregation at the Sheraton Hotel conference room in Brookfield where they regularly held worship services, which he usually attended. Friends and neighbors describe Ratzmann as a buttoned-down churchgoer known for sharing homegrown vegetables with his neighbors.

But seconds after he walked into the room, he opened fire on the group, unloading 22 bullets from a 9 mm handgun within a minute. Before the shooting stopped, the pastor, the pastor's son, and five other church members were dead, four others were wounded, and Ratzmann had killed himself.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Old Padawan said:


> Why are you taking your gun off to go to church? Criminals may not come to church, but crazy pople do.
> Your opponent gets to choose the field of battle. Your opponent gets to choose the time of battle.
> ALLWAYS be armed. If you are not armed and your opponent is, you are at a further disadvantage.
> 
> ...


 It's the LAW in Texas. I will not wear a gun where it is against the law like schools, Federal Buildings. If I got caught wearing my sidearm at *CHURCH* and there are LEO's that go to my *CHURCH* and it gets out that a Texas CHL holder has been arrested for a weapons violation in a *CHURCH*, who does that hurt? It hurts all of us and gives the CHL holders a bad name. Now if I got busted wearing one into a Post Office to drop off a letter that still would look bad but not as bad as getting caught in *CHURCH*. Ya got to understand that. I know where you're coming from and I almost stop going to Church but that would only hurt me. The LEO's have them on so at least I know I'm somewhat protect.

If you have kids would you send them armed to school because of all the school shootings. I could use your argument for that. If they stopped the CHL program and no one was allowed to carry then I would be carrying everywhere, even CHURCH.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm not a CCL holder (Yet) but Ky allows for me to carry as long as it can be seen and that is exactly what I do. I am careful to adhere to ALL laws as to where I wear my pistol on my person as well as in my vehicle. to do otherwise would just give ammo to those that want to take my rights away. Though it is true that some nut can catch me off guard on a Sunday morning I'll just have to take that risk. In the county I used to live in had a range that many county, state, and even Federal LEO used and I have talked to as many as possible on the subject of the handgun laws here. They will be the first to say that one person that tries to something on principal (like carry in a no carry posted place) can do more damage than anything. You will never hear about a traffic stop where firearms are legally handled. But one man walks into a courthouse, church, school and it will probably get press coverage on much more than the local level and give the Hillery Clintons of the world another reason to take the CC rights we have now away.

It's a lot easier to have your CCW taken from you or no be allowed to get it at all than it is to et it in the first place.


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## TxPhantom (May 6, 2006)

spacedoggy said:


> I use to carry on and off when I lived in CT. I feel safer here in Texas but I carry a primary and secondary pistol at all times. I have one in my manbag that I take to the car every time I leave. It has mags, flashlights, spare everything and my Judge for my car defense.
> 
> Today I asked my wife if it bother her that I wear a gun at all time, even my pajama kel-tec and carry all this stuff. She said not at all, makes her feel safer.
> 
> The one thing I don't want to happen to me is someday be in a situation wear I needed to defend myself or even worst defend my wife that means more to me than anything in this world and not have the necessary items on me. Now when I get dress to go to church and I leave my holster off it feels strange. I take everything with me in my bag and after church when I'm leaving the parking lot I am loading up. One time I told my wife I would wait in the car as she was talking with many after church. I watch and I swear it looked like every other car, trucks down here, when leaving looked like people were arming themselves. I did see three pistols two coming from the center box and one from the glovebox in three trucks. That day I would have to say around 25 people were getting their gear on when leaving the parking lot. *That's when I said I'm sure glad I live in Texas. If my gun jams there is a dam good change that another Texan will be there to back me up*.


Hey Spacedoggy! We are glad you are a Texan also. Good people always welcome here. My better half is from Ohio. She came here for a short visit about twenty years ago, went home and loaded up and moved to Texas. She now considers herself to be a Texan. People that come to Texas and become Texans volutarily are just as much a Texan as those of us that were fortunate enough to be born here.
I have been known to carry in church and my wife was packin in a Galco purse. Felt kinda strange though. 
We almost met one time and probably will someday. We are still looking to move out there. We did put a contract on a house in S/E Tyler but dropped off contract because of a crappy inspection. Looks like it's going to be a slow process.


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## Joeshwa24 (Nov 14, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> It's the LAW in Texas. I will not wear a gun where it is against the law like schools, Federal Buildings. If I got caught wearing my sidearm at *CHURCH* and there are LEO's that go to my *CHURCH* and it gets out that a Texas CHL holder has been arrested for a weapons violation in a *CHURCH*, who does that hurt? It hurts all of us and gives the CHL holders a bad name. Now if I got busted wearing one into a Post Office to drop off a letter that still would look bad but not as bad as getting caught in *CHURCH*. Ya got to understand that. I know where you're coming from and I almost stop going to Church but that would only hurt me. The LEO's have them on so at least I know I'm somewhat protect.
> 
> If you have kids would you send them armed to school because of all the school shootings. I could use your argument for that. If they stopped the CHL program and no one was allowed to carry then I would be carrying everywhere, even CHURCH.


Wow I guess I didn't know that it was against the law in Texas... bummer. But good call not violating the CHL stuff, that would make Not only you but and CHL holders look bad but the church as well. The Church doesn't need anymore bad press than it already gets, that's for sure.



tnoisaw said:


> I carry my P3AT to church. It's small enough and violence, sadley, happens all to often in church. What better place to find unarmed people.


It is sad but true and I think with the ever growing threat of radical Islam carrying in church has become a necessity. I have three ushers at my church that carry, one former military, one deputy sheriff and one gun store owner.

I am 6'4" and I weigh in at 230Lbs... 25 oz... 35oz... My personal weight fluctuates that much in a day and I can easily conceal a 5 inch 1911 on my person (not that I have one any more but the XD I'm getting mid January will de the 5 inch model). I think when it comes to concealed carry the name of the game is being prepared no matter how many targets and a single stack affords me less opportunity to engage multiple targets. Just my 2 cents.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> It's the LAW in Texas. I will not wear a gun where it is against the law like schools, Federal Buildings. If I got caught wearing my sidearm at *CHURCH* and there are LEO's that go to my *CHURCH* and it gets out that a Texas CHL holder has been arrested for a weapons violation in a *CHURCH*, who does that hurt? It hurts all of us and gives the CHL holders a bad name. Now if I got busted wearing one into a Post Office to drop off a letter that still would look bad but not as bad as getting caught in *CHURCH*. Ya got to understand that. I know where you're coming from and I almost stop going to Church but that would only hurt me. The LEO's have them on so at least I know I'm somewhat protect.
> 
> If you have kids would you send them armed to school because of all the school shootings. I could use your argument for that. If they stopped the CHL program and no one was allowed to carry then I would be carrying everywhere, even CHURCH.


The above is incorrect. It is not against the law in Texas to carry in church. It is only against the law to carry where there is a particular sign that prohibits carry. Therefore, if a church is not posted with this sign, then it is ok to carry.

PhilR.
(Texan w/chl)


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## shipleyj (Dec 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, the concealed weapons laws in Arkansas expressly prohibit carrying in Church just as you can't carry in a courthouse or etc.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

PhilR. said:


> The above is incorrect. It is not against the law in Texas to carry in church. It is only against the law to carry where there is a particular sign that prohibits carry. Therefore, if a church is not posted with this sign, then it is ok to carry.
> 
> PhilR.
> (Texan w/chl)


Sorry Phil your wrong on this one. If you have the 2005 - 2006 book on page 36 PC46.035 #(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

This is the page that lists where you can't carry and signs are not required to be posted. It's the same as a school, correctional facility on and on.

A good rule of thumb, always check it out yourself and don't take the word of anyone of us. Most of the time facts have a tendency to be non-repentance.

I just found the new book online. It's form LS-16 which is the 2007-2008 book and look on page 40 #6. I know they make this stuff hard to understand. Let me know if I'm right on this one. That will make it the second time in my life.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/index.htm#chls


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> Sorry Phil your wrong on this one. If you have the 2005 - 2006 book on page 36 PC46.035 #(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
> 
> This is the page that lists where you can't carry and signs are not required to be posted. It's the same as a school, correctional facility on and on.
> 
> ...


§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE 
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license 
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person 
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, 
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun. 
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license 
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun 
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, 
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the 
license holder's person: 
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or 
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic 
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its 
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for 
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic 
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code; 
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, 
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking 
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a 
handgun is used in the event; 
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility; 
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under 
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing 
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the 
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing 
home administration, as appropriate; 
(5) in an amusement park; or 
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other 
established place of religious worship. 
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license 
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun 
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, 
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a 
governmental entity. 
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while 
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the 
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless 
of whether the handgun is concealed. 
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer 
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security 
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the 
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a 
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. 
(f) In this section: 
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or 
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for 
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of 
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface 
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is 
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has 
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not 
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or 
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. 
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry 
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. 
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a 
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, 
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other 
parking area. 
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) 
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under 
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony 
of the third degree. 
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that 
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed 
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been 
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9. 
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply 
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. 
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical 
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas 
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

It is too bad that you never read the whole thing, especially subsection (i). Many people, instructors as well, make the mistake of reading down to B6 and no further. This would be the mistake you made. A good rule of thumb is to always check it out yourself _and to read everything, and don't assume_. But don't take my word for it. You're a member of TexasCHL forum -- go there and see for yourself....

PhilR.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

PhilR. said:


> § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
> HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
> holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
> under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
> ...


I,m still confused. I called my instructor and he said no. I read what you said and there was silence for about 30 seconds. I said you still there. He said "I'll call you back"

Why can't they write this stuff up for the common people? Who is the actor?


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Dang it! I always thought it was illegal in a church here also. Now I'm a little confused. Maybe we need to know what "effective notice" is. I'm stumped!! :smt102


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

My instructor called back and Phil is right. Thanks for setting me straight Phil. I will feel better Sunday after all the new shootings going on.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> My instructor called back and Phil is right. Thanks for setting me straight Phil. I will feel better Sunday after all the new shootings going on.


Hey - no problem. That you didn't know doesn't bother me, but the fact that your _ instructor _ didn't know is a bit disconcerting.

be safe,
PhilR.


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Brings up a subject.. me being a total newb to handguns with intent for a CC license.. I gotta find out about handgun laws in NC, and laws pertaining to air-conditioning a perp that brings himself unlawfully into the home of my children while they sleep.. I've got googlin' to do on that for sure.

But I can imagine for a concealed carry gun.. for comfort, thin would definitely be in even for compromise of the quantity of rounds ..... Hence products like Walther's new PPS.


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## drummin man 627 (Dec 25, 2006)

*State CCW Laws*

Try here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/ 
Also go to the area on the first forum page, scroll down and find the area for your state. Ask there. I'm sure you'll get a response. :smt1099


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

hideit said:


> * is thin really coming back *especially for ccw





Lowdrift said:


> ~ for some of us, it never left ...


Thin never left.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

babs said:


> But I can imagine for a concealed carry gun.. for comfort, thin would definitely be in even for compromise of the quantity of rounds ..... Hence products like Walther's new PPS.


I read somewhere that Walther came up with the PPS line for a secondary firearm and to compete with the pocket pistols and offer it in a 9mm. The only other company that I know of that has done this is kel-tec with it's P-9.
The reason Walther offers 3 levels of magazines is to allow you to make what level of consealment you might want. I have put one in my front pocket of my 5.11 pants that I wear 99% of the time with a 38 sp snub. It needs less room than my 38 put it did not have a mag in it at the time.

I agree with your statement and suggest to anyone who buys one to use it as a backup gun.


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## mvslay (May 6, 2007)

I'm a fan of the single stack for carry. I've also been contemplating shooting my Kimber on Tuesday USPSA league nights (I usually shoot a Para P-14 in limited). The new single stack rules for IPSC seem to confirm the single stack renaissance. Also I believe the Production and Single stack Divisions are geared toward competing with IDPA (sorta best of both worlds, IPSC game style rules, but without a ton of specialized gear).

One accessory I'd like to find for my single stack would be a pocket carry double mag pouch to fit the back pocket of my Levi's. Just something to keep the mags upright and pocket lint out.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 1, 2007)

I love my Glock, but, at 5'11", 186 lbs., it's difficult to conceal, especially now that I really like the Galco Concealable Belt Holster. At 4 o'clock my 232 or 239 single stacks are virtually undetectable, even in a pair of shorts and a sleeveless jersey. I keep the Glock at home except during the winter.


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## Timinator (Apr 10, 2008)

I just bought a Kahr CW9 for it's this profile.


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

*Concealed*

The advent of widespread concealed carry will reintroduce many weapons systems to single stack, more concealable magazines. We will learn, once more, that a massive pile of ammunition, though excellent for uniformed law enforcement personnel, is not at all necessary for am armed citizen carrying handguns covertly.

One should prepare for potential crises in a realistic manner. Having a handgun concealed, with enough rounds for self defense, a weapon that one can and will carry, is of considerably more import than having a high-capacity weapon that one left at home, or in the car.

I am in southern Arizona. The Border Patrol agents at our checkpoints are carrying four, high capacity magazines in addition to the one in their guns. I am carrying five in my Smith Airlite T. We both have what we need.


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## AirForceShooter (May 6, 2006)

Single stacks were out?

What I think is really coming back is the J Frame.

AFS


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I just got a new "slimline" pistol, the KelTec PF9. Short write up of my first impressions here, along with a few comparison pics with some other guns: http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=13334.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

babs said:


> I gotta find out about handgun laws in NC, and laws pertaining to air-conditioning a perp that brings himself unlawfully into the home of my children while they sleep.. I've got googlin' to do on that for sure.


The way our instructor explained it to us was this; if someone is in the actual act of breaking into your home, you can shoot. Once they have gained entry, you need to reassess the situation before you can shoot.

Can't wait to move back to FL where full blown castle doctrine is the way of the land.


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## TxPhantom (May 6, 2006)

*Castle Doctrine in Texas*

We've got The Castle Doctrine laws now in Texas. Love it! It would not be a good idea for a b. g. to come into my home uninvited!!:buttkick:


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## skyfire (May 6, 2008)

I have mixed feelings.

I would feel safer with a .40 or .45 over a 9mm for "subdueing my enemy", but a 9mm is better than being unarmed.

I would prefer a double-stack high-capacity weapon over a thin single-stack, but a single stack would be better than being unarmed.

Presenting your firearm in a "situation" usually resolves the "problems" 80% of the time without ever firing a single round. They see the weapon, say "oh sh*t", turn, and rethink their life.

So... if I owned a full sized 1911, and a subcompact 9mm, I would say the 1911 has a better chance of being more effective if you have to shoot it, but because of it's size and weight, you might choose to leave it at home pretty often (I know I would, and that one time you leave it at home is when you'll need it, we all know how life works lol). 

So what am I saying? I'm saying that if you think the size and weight and concealability of your large capacity large caliber weapon will keep you from carrying it, get something you feel more comfortable concealing. The chance of you ever having to "present" your weapon is very very low, and according to stats, only about 20% of the time will you ever have to fire it. That being said, a lighter more "practical" conceal carry weapon would be more effective than that giant deagle .50 you left at home because of its size and weight.

I goto the indoor range once or twice a week, and so I get alot of practice. I don't plan on ever having to fire more than one round. Having to empty even a small capacity magazine to resolve my "situation" sounds like I would be putting innocent people at risk. This is one of those arguments though that'll never have a right or wrong, my dad conceals his full sized springfield 1911, and that thing only leaves his presence when he goes to a no-carry zone. :smt023


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## R.J.Adams (Apr 10, 2008)

I can't see any human being hanging around for more than 8 or 10 holes in him,or her. If someone pops even a .22 cal hole in me, I am likely going to stop doing whatever it was that prompted the other party to shoot me. In a defense situation, at distances of a few feet, I can't see needing 17 or more shots at my disposal. I suppose a gang related attack could yield multiple targets, but how many of them are really going to hang around to count shots when the red stuff starts leaking out of a couple of them? My favorite home defense weapon is an Ithaca 12ga and #4 buck. I have #4 buck on hand for coyote hunting, so the judicial system can't honestly use my ammo choice against me in court. For c.c., use what you can handle confidently, and try to avoid situations that put you at risk. "Packing" is never a replacement for common sense. I say if your favorite .45 compact holds 6 or 7 + 1, you are good to go.


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Skyfire makes me think I kinda wish I had spend the dough for the 239 SAS instead of the 226 full-size Sig that's guarding the inside of it's safe (sadly). Especially after getting to check out a friends KelTec P3AT over the weekend.. Talk about a pocket-gun.. Wow.

Howdy! Haven't been in here for a while. Hope all are well. :mrgreen:


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## Dr.K (Feb 13, 2007)

For shooting I prefer a double stack whatever due to the increased "girth".

My long fingers like to wrap up as much pistol grip as they can, but for carry I prefer a single stack, or most of the year a J frame .38 pocket carry due to the hot weather.


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## tekhead1219 (May 16, 2008)

TxPhantom said:


> We've got The Castle Doctrine laws now in Texas. Love it! It would not be a good idea for a b. g. to come into my home uninvited!!:buttkick:


+1 on the good idea....:smt023


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## Scratchshooter40 (Jun 17, 2008)

*High Capacity, spare mags, and preparedness. . .*

While I have a CCW and am a reserve deputy (Certified as former Officer) I think the choice of personal defense weapon is up to the individual and how they carry. Some folks just don't have the frame to carry a Beretta 96concealed with 2 spare mags, some, like me do at 6'2" & 253#. Shot placement is the most important thing and under stress, it suffers, I have seen it more than I'd like to. We have the pot fields, grow houses, and random street trash pushing rock everywhere. I have carried a .45ACP in the past and am comfortable with it, I carry a .40 S&W now and am very comfortable with it. If I carried a .25ACP, I'd get darned comfortable with it as well. As I frequent inner city Atlanta from 6AM to 9PM on business regularly, I carry the Beretta 96. The gangs here run in packs and that is mostly what I see cruising around. The rural "county" I live in north of Atlanta has a very high population of Hispanic gangs. Going back to the Moro's there is proof that the .45 ACP works better than the .38 spl. but this is not a dissertation on caliber or a hijack from capacity. I use the hi capacity as I am pretty sure if there is ever a confrontation, it will be with one of these groups, not an individual given my size and awareness. I am prepared for the worst and always hope and pray for the best and train, train,train.

Check six and twelve, Scratch


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## Unhinged (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm sitting in church with a concealed weapon. Do I really want others to know I have a weapon....not. God only knows that I only carry my weapon 24/7 because I plan for the worse and hope for the best.

I'm sitting in a college class room envirorment. Do I really want others to know I'm caring a concealed weapon....not. God only knows that I carry my weapon 24/7 because I plan for the worse and hope for the best.

The list goes on. We all prey that we will never actually have to use our weapons, but if a situation arrises that warrants actions than let God be on my side to help protect the innocent.

Sincerely yours,

Unhinged


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Unhinged said:


> I'm sitting in a college class room envirorment. Do I really want others to know I'm caring a concealed weapon....not. God only knows that I carry my weapon 24/7 because I plan for the worse and hope for the best.


Last time I checked, colleges have a "No firearms" policy, which means you're admitting to breaking the law.

How many times do we have to say it before people get it? We do not discuss illegal activity on the forum! I've had enough. Thread closed.

PM incoming.


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