# AR 15 Rifle



## PT111Pro

This morning listening to ABC news this morning, they said, AR 15 rifles should be not in private hands because they are made for the military. I didn't get the beginning of it.
I'm planing to buy me a AR 15 next year, Christmas had poked a little hole in my bank account.
Hummm after I heard that I thought I should buy may be the S&W Sport right now, before they close the door on it.

Did anyone hear something about that and should I buy right now or better relax and wait for Eastern?


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## Goldwing

You may have heard something regarding the families of the Newtown school shooting victims suing Bushmaster, and the lgs that sold the rifle to either the shooter or his Mom.
Goldwing


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## VAMarine

Now is a good time to buy, if you wait for the next panic you will pay more.


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## denner

Civilian AR-15 rifles are not made for the military. I just bought a Bushmaster XM15 E2S and it's a very light, extremely well built AR, sporting a 4150 chrome lined barrel. It is one of the most accurate AR's I own. I would highly recommend it. Besides, Bushmaster needs all the support we can give them having to face these frivolous lawsuits.


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## denner

goldwing said:


> You may have heard something regarding the families of the Newtown school shooting victims suing Bushmaster, and the lgs that sold the rifle to either the shooter or his Mom.
> Goldwing


The Bushmaster was legally produced and legally sold to the little psychopath's mother and in turn was stolen from his mother by the psychopath. The mother was partially to blame knowing the fact that she had a diagnosed mentally deranged son with violent tendencies. It's not the rifles fault.


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## PT111Pro

Ohh Newton. It's hard to keep up with the media and their horror-stories at the moment. They blow little incidents up to make it to a WW III scenario and I learned from Europe that the media often invent entire towns and events. Everyone believes what the TV reports and they don't lie. Right? When caught a certain population didn't care about and said: "Id could have happen and people have to see that symbolic". Go figure and may be t sounds for some people similar to Zimmerman, Ferguson etc. 
I am just very familiar what happen at the moment, for me is that a deja vu, or history lived twice situation. I just thought they are talking defenitly about taken the AR out of the shelves.

I was looking for the Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport. Decent equipped with a little stock ammo (min 1000-1500 rounds), I'm looking at $ 1700-2000. I didn't check on the Bushmasters, may be I should.
The S&W looks like a good base - right?


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## iGuy

Yeah its the Newtown thing.... Wish I could afford and buy a Bushmaster - beautiful rifle! But unfortunately I live in CT!

Someone suggested Bushmaster countersue the plaintiffs when the case is dismissed.... I think, rather, they should offer the families a monetary compensation for their loss. I would be a jaw-dropping move, and show more class. Countersuing just demonizes them even more.


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## GCBHM

Now is a great time to buy the AR. Like VAMarine said, don't wait for the next panic. If you do, you will see the MP15 Sport go from $599 to $1599 over night.


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## Bisley

At the last gun show I attended (October), they had complete DPMS 16" barrel flattop models for $449. Heck of a buy. My Rock River varmint rifle with DPMS 1:8 - 20" Heavy barrel upper shoots tighter groups than my bolt rifles (0.4" at 100 yards), with hand loaded 70 gr. ammo. I almost bought one, just because it was a good deal on a good rifle, but I didn't - I may, next time, though.


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## NGIB

They are as cheap now as I have ever seen. The price will triple immediately if there's another incident...


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## PT111Pro

Well - you guys may right and I shouldn't wait. It just hurts my saving account if I do. Dam if you do, dam if you don't.


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## VAMarine

Check out the new Ruger direct impingement AR


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## Billy113

try looking at a stag model8. I own one one,love it,it cost me $949, is piston driven,and becoming one of the most popular rifles for 3 gun competition


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## Goldwing

VAMarine said:


> Check out the new Ruger direct impingement AR


I just checked out the Ruger AR 556 on their website and also on Gun Digests online magazine. Looks like a bargain to me! And now I know that direct impingement is a lot cheaper to make than the tappet design of the SR 556.
Goldwing


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## SouthernBoy

I bought an M&P 15 Sport three years ago and love it. I installed a MagPul handguard and vertical grip and a Geissele SSA trigger. This is my favorite AR (I have three). Get an AR while the prices are down and do seriously consider the M&P 15 Sport. It is a super little AR.


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## PT111Pro

Humm
The LGS offered me a Smith&Wesson M&P AR 15 including 250 Tula .223 55gr FMJ and a Scope from Millett Tactical 4-16mmX50mm illuminated and 4 Mags for exactly $ 1 100.00 out the door as a regular customer Christmas deal.
What do you guys think. Is that a real Christmas deal? Oh man - my savings numbers are shrinking.


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## VAMarine

The ammo isn't that great and the scope is OK. I wouldn't call it a screaming deal but its not bad assuming its new equipment. It has that feel of being a package someone traded in and now they are trying to move it.


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## PT111Pro

You right. I stopped yesterday by Gandermountain in town and checked out what they got. The Smith&Wesson M&P AR 15 Sport is there sold for $ 795.00. Kind a similar Optic than the LGS offer is about $ 280.00 - $ 350.00 So the only difference between the higher priced Gandermountain and the Local Store offer is the 250 Round Tula Ammo.

I’ll thing looking around locally I will find a better deal than the $ 1 100.00 offer from the gun store around the corner. On the other hand, the LGS here handles all my FFL needs for a decent price and he repairs my guns in a decent timeframe and price. I may will consider this. 
Well the biggest problem is to convince the skirt in the house why I need the Gun right now.


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## SouthernBoy

This online company had the M&P 15 Sport for $529 recently as I recall. And this was posted on this website;
Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport - $679.99 (Free S/H over $50) | Slickguns

Here's another one;
Champion Firearms | Smith & Wesson M&P15-Sport in .223 / 5.56 811036

This little AR does not come with a dust cover or a forward assist. But it is one fine little AR.


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## Overkill0084

If money is tight, just buy stripped lowers and build them as money becomes available. 
The stripped lower is the important part, as it's "the gun" as far as the ATF is concerned. $50 to $60 per lower. Less if you like polymer. Pretty cheap way to stock up. Building a lower is so easy, even I managed to do it. Then buy or assemble an upper that you like from less than $300 to the sky is the limit.

AR-15 Lower Receivers


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## Spike12

I wouldn't buy a new Bushy because of the new owners of the *name* and the company movement and history. They're not what they used to be. The original work force that made Bushmaster the great brand that it was is back in business at the same location as Anderson Manufacturing. The new Rugers, AR556, are GREAT and terrific buy. My name is on the next one my LGS gets in. At $550 you simply cannot beat them. If you can show me where a $1000 AR is twice as better than a Ruger AR I'd listen but not be convinced.


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## SouthernBoy

Spike12 said:


> I wouldn't buy a new Bushy because of the new owners of the *name* and the company movement and history. They're not what they used to be. The original work force that made Bushmaster the great brand that it was is back in business at the same location as Anderson Manufacturing. *The new Rugers, AR556, are GREAT and terrific buy.* My name is on the next one my LGS gets in. At $550 you simply cannot beat them. If you can show me where a $1000 AR is twice as better than a Ruger AR I'd listen but not be convinced.


That's a great looking rifle with excellent features. I have not seen this one nor done any research on it. Looks like a solid winner.


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## PT111Pro

@Spike12. Thank you for the hint. My first overview on the PC and Specs looks good. The Ruger AR556 will be definitely on my list to consider.


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## Kynochco

Highly over rated in my op. Though it is a widely used and owned gun, I am a purist and love wood, not to say that polymer or "plastic" isn't lightweight. Those of whom vilify this gun, only see it for what it is, a nasty black killing tool, when in fact it's not at all that reliable, it tends to have problems and is little more than a glorified hunting rifle. But that is just my personal experience which is why I love the AK's.


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## Goldwing

Kynochco said:


> Highly over rated in my op. Though it is a widely used and owned gun, I am a purist and love wood, not to say that polymer or "plastic" isn't lightweight. Those of whom vilify this gun, only see it for what it is, a nasty black killing tool,* when in fact it's not at all that reliable,* it tends to have problems and is little more than a glorified hunting rifle. But that is just my personal experience which is why I love the AK's.


So from tour statement about the "fact" that they are not all that reliable, I am guessing that you don't own one yourself? I have owned several ARs from different manufacturers and never had a problem with any of them running. Some people make the mistake of running them dry which is not recommended by any of the makers. They run best with proper lubrication. Comparing an AR to an AK is fine with me, I like them all, but I prefer plastic to that garbage wood that you see on an AK.
GW


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## acepilot

S&W M&P15 Sport SKU 811036

I *LOVE* it! Flip up rear Magpul MBUS sight. Accurate right out of the box. Added a super cheap Tru Glo red dot sight that co-witnesses no problem. $699 +tax out the door (without the red dot). Just picked it up a couple weeks ago...won a .243 Weatherby Vanguard and traded it with $250 cash to get the AR.


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## RIFLESHOOTER4741

Any time the news media get a chance they are always trying to misinform the viewing public, that the Simi Auto AR-15 rifle as sold to the general public are the same as the M16/M4 AR16s used by the Military. This is totally incorrect. As they know they are reporting a lie. But to the public who knows nothing about these rifles it sounds like a fact.

I would say with the drop in AR-15 prices today and the many new AR15 being offered,Ruger just put a very basic one out at a really good price. I have an early S&W 15T AR15 and it's been a god shooting AR also have a LMT Defender 2000 their basic AR-15 that has been great.
So I advise buy now and start shooting,Ammo. for the 5.56x45 is easy to find and prices not great are fairly good.


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## dakota1911

I saw one of the Ruger AR-556s this last weekend for $615 normal price. I got mine at a big Oktoberfest sale last fall for $599 and thought that was a heck of a deal. Nice rifle by the way.


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## SouthernBoy

dakota1911 said:


> I saw one of the Ruger AR-556s this last weekend for $615 normal price. I got mine at a big Oktoberfest sale last fall for $599 and thought that was a heck of a deal. Nice rifle by the way.


Last week I asked one of my local gun dealers if he has gotten any of the Ruger AR-556 rifles in and he said he has only been able to get six of them this year. They go out the door rapidly. I have yet to see one but from everything I have been able to turn up on them, they are one of the best going for the money.


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## Goldwing

A while back I posted that I had picked up a DPMS Oracle in like new condition for cheap. That little AR has proven to be very accurate and reliable. It likes all types of ammo and shoots nice tight groups. I know that the DPMS is scorned by some, but it is every bit as good a gun as either of the Bushmasters that I paid twice as much for.

GW


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## Bisley

My AR-15 varmint rifle is an RRA lower with DPMS upper. It is a heavy barrel 20" 1:8 and shoots 0.40 MOA groups consistently. I don't have a bolt action that will beat that. I would also add that I ignored the silly 'break-in' instructions and it was shooting that well right out of the box. I have yet to have a conversation with a DPMS hater who had a clue. I get a big kick out of shooting next to the guys with Noveski's and $1500 dollar scopes that can't do any better than my DPMS with a $300 Nikon Buckmaster scope.


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## packrat

Pick up the most inexpensive (assembled) one you can find, most of the bad press I read about is someone trying to build there own and having the wrong buffer, spring, gas port etc.
This is a Del-Ton mid length with a magpul stock, it's just a range toy (it do need a better trigger) I have about 700 into it so far.


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## CW

Be careful, but you may find some really good used buys when it comes to ARs.

I was fortunate to find a used SR556c that appeared someone panicked and unloaded with but a small scratch on the receiver. The gun, mags, case all appeared unused. 
Perhaps the dealer boogered it up.

Some may say its over engineered but I prefer the robust piston versions and as I do not to expect to need more than one [none of this akimbo stuff ],
I chose it over the more moderate priced DI versions out there.

I will say the barrel at 15" plus welded flash hider can keep all the shots in a 1" bullseye out to 50 yards with a reflex sight. 
Eventually I'll scope it and see how it is at longer ranges.

Although the kids heated it up, the fluted barrel seems as strong as a varmit rig so I doubt I'll invest in another upper, although a 6.8 spc is tempting as a collector's component.


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## packrat

CW said:


> Be careful, but you may find some really good used buys when it comes to ARs.
> 
> I was fortunate to find a used SR556c that appeared someone panicked and unloaded with but a small scratch on the receiver. The gun, mags, case all appeared unused.
> Perhaps the dealer boogered it up.
> 
> Some may say its over engineered but I prefer the robust piston versions and as I do not to expect to need more than one [none of this akimbo stuff ],
> I chose it over the more moderate priced DI versions out there.
> 
> I will say the barrel at 15" plus welded flash hider can keep all the shots in a 1" bullseye out to 50 yards with a reflex sight.
> Eventually I'll scope it and see how it is at longer ranges.
> 
> Although the kids heated it up, the fluted barrel seems as strong as a varmit rig so I doubt I'll invest in another upper, although a 6.8 spc is tempting as a collector's component.


Pick up an SKS if you don't want the kids getting things heated up, surplus amo is still cheap.
with the ten round internal mag reloading will slow them down a little (even with stripper clips)
I got my Yugo up for $300 with an ice cream pail of amo.


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## CW

Nice Yugo SKS!

I've actually been thinking about getting an SKS. Just to have something in 7.62x39. Likely the son will get one if he doesn't get an AK first.

I'm hoping to find a good low cost one. Sadly the latest batch of SKSs that have been in local shops look like they were dug out of Cam Ranh Bay.


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## packrat

I have not seen any new ones around here (well new import) for a long time. I was just lucky and got this from a guy who was cleaning out his safe a little. Just have some cash ready and keep an eye on armslist.
I also have a Mosin addiction and there has been nothing in the stores lately. on the plus side my 89 dollar 91/30 is now selling for $200.


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## CW

I remember not long ago Cabela's had a solid rack of M-Ns. Now.... crickets. Son is very pleased with his $99 matched # rifle he found before the craze.


Kudos on the 'inventory reduction' nab. I like to check the used racks frequently. Every now and then a deal shows up and then is finders keepers.


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## denner

Spike12 said:


> I wouldn't buy a new Bushy because of the new owners of the *name* and the company movement and history. They're not what they used to be. The original work force that made Bushmaster the great brand that it was is back in business at the same location as Anderson Manufacturing. The new Rugers, AR556, are GREAT and terrific buy. My name is on the next one my LGS gets in. At $550 you simply cannot beat them. If you can show me where a $1000 AR is twice as better than a Ruger AR I'd listen but not be convinced.


I just bought a new Bushmaster manufactured in Ilion NY. The current Bushmasters are indeed a very fine rifle and are as good now as ever. Don't believe me, then buy one. It is extremely well built and an absolute tack driver even with it's stock trigger. I'd put it up against the Ruger AR556 any day, or anything else in it's class.


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## Goldwing

denner said:


> I just bought a new Bushmaster manufactured in Ilion NY. The current Bushmasters are indeed a very fine rifle. It is well built and an absolute tack driver even with it's stock trigger. I'd put it up against the Ruger AR556 any day, or anything else in it's class.


....AND THE GAUNTLET IS THROWN! How about We each post three 5 shot groups on the same target shot at 100 yards from the bench. 1 Ruger, 1 Bushmaster, and one lowly DPMS Oracle. The only rule I want is that the target has a proper scale or grid on it. I will hang my pic on this thread by Sunday night.

GW


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## denner

goldwing said:


> ....AND THE GAUNTLET IS THROWN! How about We each post three 5 shot groups on the same target shot at 100 yards from the bench. 1 Ruger, 1 Bushmaster, and one lowly DPMS Oracle. The only rule I want is that the target has a proper scale or grid on it. I will hang my pic on this thread by Sunday night.
> 
> GW


Lets move it in to 50 yards and you have a deal. My Bushy sports a 3X Burris Tactical Scope and @ 100 yards would be pushing the scope for moa groups. I'll likewise post some groups with my varmint rigged DPMS Low-Pro @ 100


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## Goldwing

denner said:


> Lets move it in to 50 yards and you have a deal. My Bushy sports a 3X Burris Tactical Scope and @ 100 yards would be pushing the scope for moa groups. I'll likewise post some groups with my varmint rigged DPMS Low-Pro @ 100


50 yards is fine with me. I am not sure that it will show any difference between the brands though. Time will tell.

GW


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## denner

goldwing said:


> 50 yards is fine with me. I am not sure that it will show any difference between the brands though. Time will tell.
> 
> GW


True, most AR's will shoot pretty close to moa or moa, or should. Likewise, ammunition used, conditions, or what your rifle likes and the shooter of course all are factors.

I load 50 grain V-max/Zombie-max over 26.0 grains of TAC powder for my AR's with very good results. The Bushy still can shoot moa with 55 grain Independence and American Eagle which I find impressive for a dedicated HD rifle.


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## CW

Just picked up a BCM charging handle at the Oaks gun show [KoP-Philly].

It is hard to believe how much easier it is to cycle my SR556 now. $50 was a good investment.

Also I got to hold an HK94 ....$4500 worth of carbine. That one will stay on the wish list for a while.


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## Goldwing

CW said:


> Just picked up a BCM charging handle at the Oaks gun show [KoP-Philly].
> 
> It is hard to believe how much easier it is to cycle my SR556 now. $50 was a good investment.
> 
> Also I got to hold an HK94 ....$4500 worth of carbine. That one will stay on the wish list for a while.


I guess if they can get $4500 for a HK94, that's fine. I can remember when that amount would buy 4 or 5 of them.

GW


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## CW

I remember too. That was just before The Ban.

But even with that in the past, A Sig MPX isn't cheap either, especially an SBR.

So I'll happily slap a 25 rounder into my Walther/HK MP5 [.22] and blaze away..... MUCH more affordably, and just about as cool.


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## TAPnRACK

Almost as cool, lol.

Field and Stream was selling the GSG MP5 .22 for $149 last Fathers Day... almost grabbed one at that price.


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## CW

TAPnRACK said:


> Almost as cool, lol. Field and Stream was selling the GSG MP5 .22 for $149 last Fathers Day... almost grabbed one at that price.


The first MP5 .22 I saw was a GSG. Unfortunately I had a GSG 1911 that was ..... unfavorable.

I checked some youtubes and looked at the comparisons - upgrades and what not of the GSG vs Walther, and decided I'd get the Walther HK.
It seems the GSG version matches the price - cheaper. (but for $149, I could possibly handle cheap)

Believe it or not, I had a slam fire at about 100 rounds that blew out the extractor of the 'better' Walther. I called Walther/HK and rather that send the gun in, just ordered the parts.
Repair took 30 seconds, but I did a teardown just to make sure there was nothing else broken. To date, not another problem.


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## berettatoter

PT111Pro said:


> This morning listening to ABC news this morning, they said, AR 15 rifles should be not in private hands because they are made for the military. I didn't get the beginning of it.
> I'm planing to buy me a AR 15 next year, Christmas had poked a little hole in my bank account.
> Hummm after I heard that I thought I should buy may be the S&W Sport right now, before they close the door on it.
> 
> Did anyone hear something about that and should I buy right now or better relax and wait for Eastern?


Here's mine. I have put MagPul foregrips on it since the pic, but it runs great for me.


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## GETCHERGUN

I have had my Rock River Arms LAR15 SBR for seven years.

I have no complaints about quality or function.








Previous to the Rock River i owned a DPMS.
I don't remember the model but it was an A2 style with a heavy barrel.
I had that rifle for three years ,again no complaints.


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