# A little advice needed



## cmaki413 (Feb 11, 2010)

Hey guys,

I'm new on the forums, but not to guns. I've grown up shooting and love it. I currently live in a college dorm so i'm not worried about now, but when i turn 21, I plan to apply for a CCW permit in Minnesota. However, I'm looking at pistols that I can conceal and still shoot well. I'd like to get one now, so I am 100% confident with it before I ever bring it our in public.

I've been looking at everything from 1911's to revolvers, and have decided i want a semi auto. I have a .38 S&W Airweight snubby that I can shoot well, but it's not what I want to carry. Something about 5 rounds just wouldn't comfort me, and I'd like something a little easier to control. What do you guys recommend. I'm really looking at a Kimber or Springfield 1911, or a Springy XDm .40. I'm sure plenty of you have shot and carried a 1911, but does anyone have a XDm? Are 9mm even worth it? Also, I'm 6 feet and 165 pounds with a pretty athletic build, so it's not like I can hide a cannon. What do you guys think.

Thanks,
Chad


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I carry a Commander sized Para LTC 1911. It is actually pretty easy to hide IWB. You just need to dress around it. Shirts that are a bit roomier around the waste and getting the pistol in the right spot on your hip is about all it takes. Moving your carry an inch or two one way or the other will make a big diffrence on whether the butt of the pistol will flag or not. The Crossbreed SuperTuck is a great holster that won't break the bank.
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

Check out the Stoeger Cougar or Beretta PX4. Both come in 9mm or .40 S&W. :smt1099


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## cmaki413 (Feb 11, 2010)

thanks for the advice guys. I like the beretta and the stoeger, but I'm a sucker for appearances as well, and there just not my favorite. Something about the springfields and all 1911's just make me like them. I've also heard a lot of good things about the XD line. Do you think a 1911 is easy to conceal, or is it pretty hard to work around. like I said, im not a big guy and the last thing i want to do as a young adult is have people freaking out for seeing that I have a gun. Also, is the .45 worth sacrificing the extra capacity. I'm pretty confident with my shooting, but I can totally understand why 16 is more comforting than 8.

Also, what is the recoil like on them. I'm imagining it can't be any worse than a snub. i plan on testing themout first, but just want tonarrow down what I test.


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## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

The 1911 is definitely easy to conceal. Especially the lightweight 4" variety. Even though I'm a huge Glock fan, I will give the nod to the 1911 definitely for concealibility. If looks are high on your list, IMHO you'll want a 1911. If durability, dependability, shootability, capacity, realiability, ease of shooting is important, then look at Glocks, Smith and Wesson M&P's or Springfield XD's. 

I can conceal my Glock 26 and Glock 19 pretty well with the right holster and I'm a lot smaller than you. A lot shorter, not much heavier.

Can't beat 16 rounds of 9mm Corbon DPX hollow points!


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## Tucker (Sep 23, 2009)

My son also lives in the dorm at UND. When he came home last Christmas we gave him a gift of a CCW. He will be 21 this coming March so when he comes home for his spring break i will send him to his uncle in Florida to apply for his license as here in Missouri, you have to be 23 to acquire a permit. In Florida, it is 21 years of age, minimum. Since the military will be supplying him with a 9mm Beretta, we also gifted him a Beretta 9mm for Christmas so he can practice on it. He is not really a handgun person but he collects antique rifles.

:smt1099


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## cmaki413 (Feb 11, 2010)

Sweet. Im at Winona, but sometimes I feel like I'm the only kid in a college that likes guns, everyone else just thinks I'm a freak for liking it. And to the other guys, thanks for the advice. I'm not going to buy 100% on looks, but you do have to love how some guns look. Since the only auto pistol I own is a .22 woodsman I have no idea what to expect for recoil on these guns either. If anyone's ever tried to rapid fire a snubby .38 at a target, what is a .45 auto, a .40 or a 9mm like compared to these?


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## egliderider (Jan 22, 2010)

You may already know this but in Florida (where I live) if you submit proof of military training you don't have to take the CCW class. I sent my DD214 with my application.


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

cmaki413 said:


> Sweet. Im at Winona, but sometimes I feel like I'm the only kid in a college that likes guns, everyone else just thinks I'm a freak for liking it.


There are pro-gun college groups out there, both general enthusiast groups and gun politics groups (which are usually also full of enthusiasts :mrgreen: ).

I looked up Winona State; it looks like they have an active Students For Concealed Carry chapter, if you're looking for like-minded people at your college.

KG


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## USMC Combat VET (Feb 13, 2010)

Since you asked there is a big differance going from a 38 to a 45 and you made mention of the capacity, and you are looking for concealed for personal defense I presume, so heres my take... Balistics and real world shooting data suggest's that at extremely close range with good hollow point ammo, the deferance between a 9mm to a 45 is marginal but obviously the 45 has more penetration and stopping power, but do to the extra kick your follow ups (at least accurate ones) will be marginally slower, a 9mm i think is considered the minumum acceptable caliber for self defense and is a fine round, now for capacity yeah a 9mm is going to hold more rounds, than a comparable 45 but think about it, this is not a combat zone yeah in combat it is very common to unload numerous rounds durring an engagement to allow for movements (to keep the enemys head down while advancing) but in a panic self deffense situation you are not going to be doing this it is most likely going to be a close range blink of an eye and its over situation meaning if you have not incapacitated the individual with a few quick well aimed rounds then chances are he was too far away to be a real threat to you any ways do you really think somebody is goiing to be say 15 yards away trading rounds with you and that you will be justified for this shoot out on public streets if you are not a cop? No so over all capacity for a CCW for Personal Defense is a small factor, 9mm, 40, 45? well half a dozen one or the other, use good personal defense hollow point ammo in any of them and since you want a concealed short barreled weapon get the one that you can shoot quickly and accurately now if your a strong armed individual and you can handle the .45 well I say go for it screw the extra rounds the 9mm has you probabally not going to need it, but if a 45 is a bit much for you and your not fast and comfortable with it get a 9mm the advatage you will have being faster and more proficient will always trump the diffence between a 9 40 or 45 I mean really if you cant hit it 2 or three times fast than whats the point? Hope this helps. Good luck.


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## cmaki413 (Feb 11, 2010)

Alright, thanks for the help so far.

I know this sound like a major newbie question but here it goes. I have my .38, and I can shoot it fairly accurate from 20-25 yards, but I really have to take time to aim. Again, this is a 2 inch barrel. It just makes me wonder if I dare go above a 9mm. I have only shot revolvers, so I'm not sure what the technology is for recoil dampening in auto pistols. I plan on going to the range to try different calibers and gun types (Glock 19, Springfield XDm .40, and a Kimber or Springfield 1911 .45.) How do they compare? Is it even worth trying to shoot a .40 or a .45, or should I just go for the 9mm??


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

cmaki413 said:


> Alright, thanks for the help so far.
> 
> I know this sound like a major newbie question but here it goes. I have my .38, and I can shoot it fairly accurate from 20-25 yards, but I really have to take time to aim. Again, this is a 2 inch barrel. It just makes me wonder if I dare go above a 9mm. I have only shot revolvers, so I'm not sure what the technology is for recoil dampening in auto pistols. I plan on going to the range to try different calibers and gun types (Glock 19, Springfield XDm .40, and a Kimber or Springfield 1911 .45.) How do they compare? Is it even worth trying to shoot a .40 or a .45, or should I just go for the 9mm??


Felt recoil can actually be softer pending on which exact models we're talking about due to the moving parts taking up some of energy of the discharging cartridge. Instead of having all that energy just going back into your hand, the barrel unlocking and the slide cycling will take away some of that energy.

Shoot all that you can and make an informed purchase.

Regarding the capacity issue. Your _average _encounter in civilian life is something like 3-5 shots, however that is _average _which means that sometimes more or less is needed.

The basic rule is to carry the largest gun you can easily conceal that holds the most of whatever caliber you can effectively handle.

If you don't perform well with a .40 or .45, go with the 9 and select what you will be able to conceal that holds the most ammunition. No one ever wished for less ammunition at the end of an armed encounter.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

You will find that shooting a .45 produces _less_ apparent recoil than does shooting your .38 Special!
That's because a large, heavy bullet travelling relatively slowly recoils with what feels to be a slow push, rather than the quick jerk of a lighter bullet moving faster.
Nevertheless, a smaller .45 pistol will recoil less pleasantly than will a full-size one, just as your two-inch snubbie recoils more sharply than a revolver with a longer, heavier barrel.
Use a really tight, strong grip, and all will be well.

BTW: It is perfectly normal to have to aim carefully, and to shoot relatively slowly, at 20 to 25 yards.
Practice, however, will make you better at it.
Don't practice to be quick, though. Practice to be smooth and accurate. With enough smooth, accurate practice, speed comes to you automatically.


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## cmaki413 (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks Steve.

By the looks of your name, you are pretty into the 1911 style guns. What size do you shoot. I think a four inch barrel would probably be best compromise between accuracy and concealability, but I'm no expert. Also on polymer guns like the glock 22 or the springer, is it worth it to sacrifice accuracy and power for the shorter barrel. It seems like the regular size would be easy enough to conceal.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

cmaki413 said:


> Thanks Steve.
> By the looks of your name, you are pretty into the 1911 style guns. What size do you shoot. I think a four inch barrel would probably be best compromise between accuracy and concealability, but I'm no expert. Also on polymer guns like the glock 22 or the springer, is it worth it to sacrifice accuracy and power for the shorter barrel. It seems like the regular size would be easy enough to conceal.


I'm an old guy, with old guns.
I have three 1911s:
• Two full-size, .45 ACP Government Models that have been "tweaked" by a talented gunsmith (alas no longer with us), one a genuine Colt's and one a "parts gun" on an Essex frame. Both look and shoot exactly the same.
• One pre-Officers'-Model, custom-made (by the same gunsmith), three-inch-barrel shortie built on a specially-manufactured (but factory-standard) Essex frame.
I have extensively used and carried all three, as well as a Star PD, a Semmerling LM-4, and an AMT .45 Backup, all of which are also in .45 ACP. My daily carry gun is now the AMT .45 Backup.

If your experience level is relatively low, I recommend that you carry the largest pistol that you can effectively hide on your person. (Remember: It's the grip area that's the hard part to conceal, not the barrel.)
My recommendation has nothing to do with accuracy. You will find that any well-made pistol of any barrel length will provide satisfactory accuracy, as long as you practice with it. If you do not practice, no barrel length will help you.
I recommend as large a pistol with as long a barrel as you can carry because, in the hands of a relatively inexperienced shooter, the longer and heavier the pistol, the easier it is to learn to manage it. Short, lightweight pistols are for experts, so you will have to defer that pleasure until you have achieved some experience and have developed a strong technique.
In 1911 terms, I say that the shortest pistol you might contemplate would be what Colt's used to call a "Commander": almost a full-size frame, and almost a full-size (4 1/4") barrel. If the gun has an aluminum frame, it'll be easier to carry, but more difficult to learn to shoot well.
I have shot a Glock or two, but never a .45 Glock. This pistol is easy to learn, but it might be difficult to shoot well. The plus side is its lack of separate safety lever and its safe, consistent, long trigger pull. The minus side is that long, mushy trigger pull that's harder to control than a SA 1911, and less-than-optimum weight for a beginner. Also, Glocks don't fit everybody well. Shoot before you buy.


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## tropicmaster (Dec 20, 2009)

As a new Kimber owner I will stick strictly to concealability, and leave the other stuff to those with a lot more knowledgage than I have. I had worries just like yours about being able to conceal a 1911. I am a 2" taller and 30 lbs heavier than you but I have been extremely happy with the Kimbers ability to " disappear" when I do my part. I bought the Crimson Carry Pro and I dont think you could see it even if you knew I had it, and was looking for it. I carry IWB. The first few times feel a bit strange, but once you realize that nobody is looking to see if you have any bulges, you will relax and be fine. I honestly believe the 5" size would hide just as well. The 1911's are so thin and flat that they really do disappear if you carry them correctly, and dress around them as someone said earlier.

I'll tell you a quick story. I recently went to a Military base for my job. They have full search checkpoints to get on post these days, unlike when I was in ( oh the stories! ). Anyway I stopped at the guard shack and opened all the doors of the truck and stepped back to let the guards do their thing. As they walked up to me I informed them that I was carrying a concealed weapon, and had a permit in my wallet. Then I asked them what they wanted me to do. They said just step back and dont make any sudden moves. After they finished searching the truck the Sergeant walked up and looked me up and down thoroughly and said "I would never have picked up that you were carrying, what are you carrying and where?" I carefully pulled my shirt out of my belt, and up, and slowly drew the Kimber out halfway. Amazed would be an understatement of his reaction. Bottom line is you CAN conceal a 1911 if thats what you really want.


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

cmaki413 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm new on the forums, but not to guns. I've grown up shooting and love it. I currently live in a college dorm so I'm not worried about now, but when i turn 21, I plan to apply for a CCW permit in Minnesota. However, I'm looking at pistols that I can conceal and still shoot well. I'd like to get one now, so I am 100% confident with it before I ever bring it our in public.
> 
> ...


To answer the question of 9mm.
http://firearmsforumcoali.motionsforum.com/forum-talk-f43/the-question-on-9mm-is-it-enough-for-ccw-t121.htm

You can get CCW size 1911 pistols from both companies but I have no experience with them so I can not say. The XDm is a great gun. But the original 4.5 inch barreled gun is larger than most care to carry, not so much a heavy gun as it is the long handle that makes it difficult to hide. There is the XDm 3.8 which has the shorter barrel, but the grip is still the same length so you have the same problem with it trying to conceal the thing.


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## cmaki413 (Feb 11, 2010)

Tropicmaster, I love the story. I don't think it would be too hard to conceal a 1911. I'd have to get baggier pants, but with all the hoodies I wear, it wouldn't be too hard. 

Steve, thanks for the advice. I've shot revolvers a lot over the years (as much as I can say that being 18), and I was able to be fairly accurate, but I just have no clue with auto pistols. My uncle has a Kimber1911 .45 to .22, so I'll try that out. You guys have been great giving me advice, and I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out when I test them and eventually buy. It will probably be a little while since I'm a broke saving college student. Any more input and advice would be appreciated.


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

tropicmaster said:


> I'll tell you a quick story...


I was under the impression that concealed carry wasn't permitted on military bases and federal installations...am I mistaken, or did they just check your weapon at the gate to be picked up later?

I'm just curious, I may be spending a bit of time on and around a military base in the future, and I'd never heard of even going to the gate with a weapon on one's person. Might be good to know how that works exactly...

KG


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## tropicmaster (Dec 20, 2009)

kg333 said:


> I was under the impression that concealed carry wasn't permitted on military bases and federal installations...am I mistaken, or did they just check your weapon at the gate to be picked up later?
> 
> I'm just curious, I may be spending a bit of time on and around a military base in the future, and I'd never heard of even going to the gate with a weapon on one's person. Might be good to know how that works exactly...
> 
> KG


I am not aware of any law against possesing a handgun on a military post. Some posts do not allow concealed carry, but I had called the PMO ( provost marshal office) on post prior to my arrival just to make sure. They told me to clearly identify to the gate guards that I was carrying, which I did. After they were done with me at the gate I went on about my buisiness with no problems.


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

tropicmaster said:


> I am not aware of any law against possesing a handgun on a military post. Some posts do not allow concealed carry, but I had called the PMO ( provost marshal office) on post prior to my arrival just to make sure. They told me to clearly identify to the gate guards that I was carrying, which I did. After they were done with me at the gate I went on about my buisiness with no problems.


Very nice, I'll have to look into that. I had thought military bases were one of the building types listed in the "blanket" federal laws, especially from some of the fuss over Ft. Hood, but it looks like it'd be good to research how CC works for on-base at some point. Thanks for the info!

KG


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## wjh2657 (Jun 18, 2008)

I have to enter military bases quite often (active State Guard and Retired USMC). All bases I have been on have a no gun policy period. You can't even have one locked up in the trunk! I EDC, but I have to leave gun home when I drill or visit PX. Better check before trying it!


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## tropicmaster (Dec 20, 2009)

wjh2657 said:


> I have to enter military bases quite often (active State Guard and Retired USMC). All bases I have been on have a no gun policy period. You can't even have one locked up in the trunk! I EDC, but I have to leave gun home when I drill or visit PX. Better check before trying it!


I knew it was likely going to be an issue, and that is why I called the PMO a day prior. I was on a 4 day trip and was prepared to leave my gun at a local gunstore i necessary, and wanted time to make arrangements if I needed to. After speaking with the OIC I wrote down his name & stuck it in my wallet just in case. But it was just as he said it would be- no problems.


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## terryger (Feb 1, 2010)

cmaki413 said:


> I've been looking at everything from 1911's to revolvers, and have decided i want a semi auto. I have a .38 S&W Airweight snubby that I can shoot well, but it's not what I want to carry. Something about 5 rounds just wouldn't comfort me, and I'd like something a little easier to control. What do you guys recommend. I'm really looking at a Kimber or Springfield 1911, or a Springy XDm .40. I'm sure plenty of you have shot and carried a 1911, but does anyone have a XDm? Are 9mm even worth it? Also, I'm 6 feet and 165 pounds with a pretty athletic build, so it's not like I can hide a cannon. What do you guys think.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chad


 i carry a sig 229 sig 357/40 or an xd 40. i looked like you when i was 27 but that was then and this is now:anim_lol:

add 30 lbs of mature manliness:mrgreen:and you have a gf\ood idea of what i may look like. i hav no problem with either.

neither will you. i think you will be every happy with the xd 40. see my report in the range report section with target pictures as well as details.


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