# This bothers me............A LOT!!



## paratrooper

Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them


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## SailDesign

paratrooper said:


> Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them


No sh!t. You are not alone.


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## GCBHM

paratrooper said:


> Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them


I wonder, at times, what in the world those in LE are thinking. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to determine that if a grown man is throwing rocks at the police, he isn't all there. Surely they could have thought of something else to subdue him. SMH


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## Goldwing

What? Couldn't the cops find any rocks to throw? They should have just tackled the idiot.
GW


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## GCBHM

Right! I mean, unless the guy had a bionic arm, was shooting him the last option? I guess we weren't there, so it is really unfair to judge this, but come on.


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## RK3369

not good. Level of force used doesn't quite seem justified.


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## GCBHM

Police work is not for everyone. If you don't have patience and deductive reasoning skills, you have no business being a cop.


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## Scorpion8

It's the general and slow increase in militarization of our police forces. They used to be there "to protect and to serve", and they used to be "of the people". Now the only counter-measure they seem to recognize is to call in airstrikes when you drop a bubblegum wrapper.


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## paratrooper

When I became a cop so many years ago, it was your duty and obligation to physically engage others when needed. If you had an issue with that, or couldn't live up to that, you were better off leaving and moving on to something else. 

The Rodney King incident also troubled me greatly. Plenty of officers on-scene, and yet, they had to resolve to beating the guy with clubs? How's about a little "hands-on" therapy? 

Anyways, what I'm seeing lately is troubling for me. What bothers me even more, is that I don't see much resolve to change anything.


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## paratrooper

GCBHM said:


> Right! I mean, unless the guy had a bionic arm, was shooting him the last option? I guess we weren't there, so it is really unfair to judge this, but come on.


They were shooting at him from across the intersection as he was running away. That simply just boggles my mind.

I know it's only a short video clip, but I wonder if there's something that I'm missing?


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## SailDesign

paratrooper said:


> They were shooting at him from across the intersection as he was running away. That simply just boggles my mind.
> 
> I know it's only a short video clip, but I wonder if there's something that I'm missing?


I really hope there's something missing.....


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## Scorpion8

For some reason, and I don't know what triggered it, but police-citizen interaction changed over time from "the policeman was to be trusted and was just a guy next door" to where it became an "us-or-them" interaction. I think it's still the old-school way in smaller towns and villages, but get anywhere near a city.... Of course now you have bozos driving around in police uniforms and home-painted-police cars trying to lure kids into their cars and all those unsavory things have increased in society. We had a kid up here in Fairbanks, AK driving around with a light-bar on his truck and making people pull over at night when all they could see was his bubblegum machine flashing. Why would you ever sell that device to anyone who isn't law enforcement? They busted him, took his device and he went out and bought another. No wonder people get distrustful of true police.


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## SailDesign

"My" little island is still mainly LE'd by local boys. We had English friends who drove down from Boston but forgot their directions - they hated to ask a cop since the TV shows we export sometimes don't paint them very kindly, but they asked one anyway. "Sure, follow me - I'll lead you to Steve's house!" was the reply. 

Great things, small towns.


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## paratrooper

SailDesign said:


> "My" little island is still mainly LE'd by local boys. We had English friends who drove down from Boston but forgot their directions - they hated to ask a cop since the TV shows we export sometimes don't paint them very kindly, but they asked one anyway. "Sure, follow me - I'll lead you to Steve's house!" was the reply.
> 
> Great things, small towns.


Small towns tend to require their LE to be personal and not stand-offish. If you don't fit in, chances are good, you'll be shown the door.

You don't have the same cover of anonymity that larger cities and depts. provide.


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## SailDesign

Speaking of cities...

LAPD Officer Shoots Teen Standing Next To Someone Holding Replica Gun


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## Tip

Assault on a police officer is never acceptable -- be it via guns, cars, bottles, rocks or whatever. 
I agree, appearances in this case are that excessive force was used in responding to the assault but keep in mind that there were several crimes being committed here. The cops are probably wrong in their response and no, the guy probably didn't have to die, but when one assaults a cop bad things usually follow.....


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## GCBHM

Granted, but who is trained?


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## pic

paratrooper said:


> They were shooting at him from across the intersection as he was running away. That simply just boggles my mind.
> 
> I know it's only a short video clip, but I wonder if there's something that I'm missing?


I agree something's missing.


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## SouthernBoy

Strictly speaking from the video, without any other knowledge of what may have previously transpired, this doesn't look good for the police.


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## plhildy

You might want to take a look at BearingArms.com there is a bit more information on this incident. 
A note on the Rodney King case. Remember there were 3 men in the car. The LAPD (citizen) police commission band the use of the chock hold and when they were told that it would cause an increase in beatings they thought that would be acceptable. And the 2 others? Well they did as the officers told them to do, and surprise, nothing happened to them!


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## Steve M1911A1

According to our local ABC outlet, the rock thrower had several prior run-ins with the cops. He was known to "not like" the police.
He was also known to be mentally disturbed.

He had been throwing rocks indiscriminately at passing cars, which is a dangerous thing to do.
Then he threw rocks at the police, as they arrived.

Nevertheless, I agree with most of you, that shooting him was an over-reaction, and wrong in the extreme.

According to the video clips we were shown last night, there were lots of cops involved. It looked as if there were at least five cars answering the call.
There were enough cops involved that he could've been caught, subdued, and arrested without a shot being fired.

Seattle PD has ongoing over-reaction issues. Evidently, as we've seen in this story, the problem is not limited to Seattle.


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## BackyardCowboy

SailDesign said:


> "My" little island is still mainly LE'd by local boys. We had English friends who drove down from Boston but forgot their directions - they hated to ask a cop since the TV shows we export sometimes don't paint them very kindly, but they asked one anyway. "Sure, follow me - I'll lead you to Steve's house!" was the reply.
> 
> Great things, small towns.


Yeah, but "Steve" lives in Washington State. Cop lead them allllll the way there?


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## paratrooper

It was on the nat'l. news tonight, and it was reported that the local PD had a history of dealing with him and was aware of his circumstances. 

One would think that knowing all that, that they would have used a different approach with him.


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## SailDesign

BackyardCowboy said:


> Yeah, but "Steve" lives in Washington State. Cop lead them allllll the way there?


 Sail is Steve, too. Most common name in the multiverse, apparently.


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## Sgt45

Paratrooper and I must have been cops in the same time period. We would have closed and arrested, if there were a handy garbage can lid, that would have been used as a shield and the problem child would have been sent away for mental evaluation. There were still such thing as mental hospitals at that time and he certainly would have been a resident in one, but shooting him down like that - where was their training? Where was their ethics?


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## Cait43




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## Steve M1911A1

SailDesign said:


> Sail is Steve, too. Most common name in the multiverse, apparently.


...And, to maintain the commonality, we both live on islands, and both islands are of approximately the same size.


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## BackyardCowboy

I wonder if Freud would have something to say about you both living on islands..... hmmmm.


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## BigCityChief

GCBHM said:


> I wonder, at times, what in the world those in LE are thinking. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to determine that if a grown man is throwing rocks at the police, he isn't all there. Surely they could have thought of something else to subdue him. SMH


With all due respect, your reference to "those in LE" includes, in my opinion, hundreds of thousands of men and women who would be justifiably outraged by this shooting. This incident involved 3 officers as far as I know.


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## Scorpion8

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...And, to maintain the commonality, we both live on islands, and both islands are of approximately the same size.


So you don't have island envy?


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## SailDesign

Scorpion8 said:


> So you don't have island envy?


I believe mine is longer than his... But his may be chubbier.


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## Goldwing

SailDesign said:


> I believe mine is longer than his... But his may be chubbier.


RUFKM? We go from rock chuckers getting shot to this?:smt102
GW


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## SailDesign

goldwing said:


> RUFKM? We go from rock chuckers getting shot to this?:smt102
> GW


Sorry, GW - heinous thread-jack.

Will try to stay on topic (not kidding - this was not a good topic to jack)


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## Thateus

paratrooper said:


> *This bothers me............A LOT!!*


I here ya.
But the sad reality is it's been going on for years, and not just a few years. 
The police forces in general around the country no longer actively seek civilian recruits, they go after the young vets getting out.
Some believing they know how to work with the public which is a Big fallacy. If the public fears the police they will never trust them.
And that's what has happen.

Did you ever see that clip and listen to the amplified sounds of that homeless kid in Fountain Valley California a few year ago as the cops literally beat him to death with there bare hands. I'll never forget what that kid was yelling out, he was calling for his Dad.
This is what the the first cop said to him, "you see these fist they are getting ready to f--- you up".

Now here's a major problem. We all went to see One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest in 1976 and decided that the asylums where inhumane, and for the most part they where. Fast forward almost 40 years later and I think we over reacted. Could we have reformed them instead of shutting them all down ? You know where they are now, living in the homeless shelters of America, in and out of jail and so far gone most can no longer be helped.

Problem #2, back in the day almost anyone could call the police and say so and so is acting weird and the cops would come out and haul them to the farm for observation. Well now that we no longer have any place to put them, but that also the police as well as private citizens and including the parents can no longer have them committed and the only intervention is if they are acting out in a threatening manner or criminal manner.

So another failed social experiment that can never be undone. Because not only do we lack the political will we are broke.
But I don't want to dump all the blame on those who thought they where doing the right thing, in many ways they where. We just never fully examined all the possible repercussions.
(another one of Americas dirty little secrets)


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## Scorpion8

goldwing said:


> RUFKM? We go from rock chuckers getting shot to this?:smt102
> GW


My bad. My Sarcasm Tourettes flows at times. I shall henceforth go off and sing the Monty Python "I'm a Lumberjack" song as self-punishment.


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## pic

SailDesign said:


> I believe mine is longer than his... But his may be chubbier.


Are we still talking about the islands?


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## SailDesign

pic said:


> Are we still talking about the islands?


Oh, God I hope so!!


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## tony pasley

It sounds like a bad call but not nearly enough info to say for sure. I remember a few years back a boarder agent got killed by Illegals throwing rocks at him.


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## Steve M1911A1

SailDesign said:


> I believe mine is longer than his... But his may be chubbier.


Mine is waaaay prettier.
And we don't have no stinkin' bridge to the mainland, neither. If we want to go to Costco, it's a big, huge, all-day deal.

We're all big, hairy men here. Even the women. And the sheep are always scared.

(Wanna stop now?)


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## tony pasley

(Wanna stop now?) 


please do I can't find my hip waders!


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## SailDesign

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Mine is waaaay prettier.
> And we don't have no stinkin' bridge to the mainland, neither. If we want to go to Costco, it's a big, huge, all-day deal.
> 
> We're all big, hairy men here. Even the women. And the sheep are always scared.
> 
> (Wanna stop now?)


Wish we didn't have those steenkin' bridges. the ferry was fun. But our sheep are very calm (one is actually the main component of the town's "Seal")


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## paratrooper

Inquest planned, $25M claim filed in Wash. police shooting


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## Thateus

And these payouts have been coming in droves lately. Eventually I foresee a time when cities can no longer afford the liabilities and just farm the police services out to private company's. Much as the prison system is run now.
Can you even imagine that. Joe Blow at $9 bucks an hour with no benefits but no qualifying necessary. Cutting deals on the side for an extra check on your neighborhood. Let's hope they at least understand good enough English.

Who knows it might work out in 'we the peoples' favor when the boys and woman in blue discover they got sold down the river like all the rest of the serfs out here. Who knows right. I would like to see a return to when people became police officers to really try and make a difference instead of now as just a job/career.
Wishful thinking I'm sure.


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## Steve M1911A1

SailDesign said:


> ...But our sheep are very calm (one is actually the main component of the town's "Seal")


If it's a seal, why a sheep?

For that matter, about the bridge: Why a duck? (with apologies to the Marx Brothers and Morrie Ryskind)


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## paratrooper

Hundreds protest police shooting in Washington state


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## Thateus

The good news though if it gets to unruly they won't need to call in the National Guard cause they are bettered armed.
The bad news is they be just a little 'too condition'.


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## Steve M1911A1

Well-written sign seen at (peaceful!) protest, to which news story *paratrooper* linked us:

"Use Your Training, Not Guns."


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## Tip

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Well-written sign seen at (peaceful!) protest, to which news story *paratrooper* linked us:
> 
> "Use Your Training, Not Guns."


I agree with that sentiment completely Steve, but you know what's missing at all of these protests?? 
The sign that said:

"Obey the Law, Don't assault cops! even with rocks."

Everybody is quick to protest police actions, be those actions right or wrong (and, for the record, I believe them to be wrong in this case) but they always want to give a pass to the ultimate triggering action which is almost ALWAYS unlawful. This case, Brown, New York, etc., etc.


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## Steve M1911A1

Tip said:


> ..."Obey the Law, Don't assault cops! even with rocks"...


Yes, of course.
But if everybody obeyed the law, we wouldn't need cops.

The problem seems to arise when cops are needed, but their response to the illegal act is way out of proportion to the offense.


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## paratrooper

As long as humans continue to exist on this planet, we will have crime. In response to the crime, we need cops. 

Problem is, cops come from the same gene pool as the rest of us. That is to say, none of us are perfect, so we can't expect perfection from them, if we can't expect it of ourselves. 

We are and always will continue to be an imperfect species. That being the case, I don't see any improvement looming in the near future.


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## Thateus

I just found out that it's their 4th police shooting in that town in 7 months.
And the relatives are saying why wasn't there a Hispanic cop there or one who knew Spanish because he didn't understand English.
Not trying to take sides but are they to blame because he didn't know English ?

Also one of the cops was hit with a rock the size of a softball. So there is a case of fear for ones life.
And once again if he suffered from mental illness why isn't the family taking any responsibility. There is help out there, but all to often the families either hide from it or ignore it.

But of course we know it will get skew.
And if it gets to push and the police are pushed under further scrutiny they'll just stop answering calls like they did in L.A. after the King affair some years ago. Over night murder and mayhem and the public was begging them to police again.

I'll start holding the police to a higher standard when people start taking responsibility for their own lives including the lives of their families.
He throws a rock at this civilian I'm shooting him. And you won't be able to use any minority spiel on me or some other foolish 'progressive Liberal' rant because I live among the various flavored rats out here. That is indeed why I carry a gun.
I hope in my next life I come back better educated and with some money. (or at the very least a silver spoon up my a--)


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## Steve M1911A1

Thateus said:


> ...I hope in my next life I come back better educated...


Me, too.


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## Thateus

You may be full of s--t but at least your honest.:smt001


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## Steve M1911A1

OK. I guess that it's time for me to start ignoring you.

You're on your own.


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## Thateus

Don't take it personal, I use to think I was smarter than everyone else myself.
(might have even thought I was better than everyone else as well)


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## Cait43

Thateus said:


> You may be full of s--t but at least your honest.:smt001


Not a good post........ Might be a clue to why you have been banned elsewhere........ Just saying........


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## Thateus

I never open the door to it but I do have a bad habit of stepping in it.
And ya know if you can't take it then don't dish it out.
You are only protecting him because he's your friend. Yet you totally miss him insulting me with his post. 
So what does that make you ?


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## SailDesign

Thateus said:


> I <snip>
> Yet you totally miss him insulting me with his post.
> So what does that make you ?


My understanding of Steve's reply was that he hoped he would also come back better educated.

Something we should all hope for (and you can read that either way.....  )


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## Thateus

You would hope that right.
I tend to read between the lines. Perhaps he could have done a better job as you seem to have explaining it uh.
(by the way I won't be able to afford to buy anyone's friendship here)


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## SailDesign

Thateus said:


> You would hope that right.
> I tend to read between the lines. Perhaps he could have done a better job as you seem to have explaining it uh.
> (by the way I won't be able to afford to buy anyone's friendship here)


As the Resident Liberal, believe me when I say all sorts are tolerated here, and friendships are earned, not bought....


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## Thateus

Duly noted and I'll be the first one to admit I'm an a-- hole.


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## paratrooper

Thateus said:


> Duly noted and I'll be the first one to admit I'm an a-- hole.


If you'd take some time and learn a little about this forum and it's members and what makes it / them tick, you'd be ahead of the game.

When you came here as a new member, rather than knock on the door and ask permission to come in, you more-or-less, kicked it open and announced you had a no-knock search warrant.

Not a good way to make new friends. :watching:


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## Thateus

I'm not here to make friends. I have no more respect for you than I do the bums and thugs I live around.

:smt001


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## TAPnRACK

I'm beginning to see why you don't last long on gun forums...

Let's say we start over. Paratrooper offered some good advise above, I suggest you consider it.

I'm not attacking or baiting you... just offering advise so we all don't start insulting each other and arguing... i'm sure you know what that leads to.


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## paratrooper

Thateus said:


> I'm not here to make friends. I have no more respect for you than I do the bums and thugs I live around.
> 
> :smt001


Cool. Now at least I have a better idea as to the type of individual we're dealing with.

It's a whole new game my friend. :smt002


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## paratrooper

02-12-2015, 07:25 PM 
#11

paratrooper's Avatar

paratrooper

paratrooper is online now 
Senior Member

Feedback Score 0

Join Date:Feb 2012Posts:3,057

*Something smells fishy. *

Slowalkintexan and shootbrownelk like this.


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## Goldwing

Thateus said:


> I'm not here to make friends. I have no more respect for you than I do the bums and thugs I live around.
> 
> :smt001


There are quite a few of us here that enjoy needling and having a bit of fun at each others expense. It is generally done with respect and wit. You don't seem to have command of either. You might want to set a precedent and leave on your own before another admin. kicks you to the curb. You don't seem the type to change your ways so why delay the inevitable?
GW


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## pic

:watching:


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## Thateus

goldwing said:


> You might want to set a precedent and leave on your own


Yup.
Get while the gett'n is good as they say. It doesn't surprise me where all this trouble is coming from. My original thread with some of the comments where very telling. So sure enough the same characters.
They say respect earns respect hard to do though when someone's character is being question from the start.

And yet somehow some feel because of their position in life or former position should automatically demand respect.


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## paratrooper

Yada, yada, yada. 

No one on this forum was initially gunning for you. You brought it on all by yourself. I did have my suspicions, and they turned out to be accurate.


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## Thateus

paratrooper said:


> I did have my suspicions


One starts to wonder how many people in the course of your police career you railroaded with bogus evidence and perhaps even backroom confession beatings.


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## paratrooper

Thateus said:


> One starts to wonder how many people in the course of your police career you railroaded with bogus evidence and perhaps even backroom confession beatings.


Okay, so we're going to "go there" huh?

You're just pissed cause I had you pegged from the very start. It's a skill I acquired many, many years ago.

I was spot on about that "foul wind blowing"........and I was being polite.


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## TAPnRACK

Only 3 days and already making friends... nice work Thateus, is that a new record for you?.... Or have you isolated yourself sooner somewhere else?


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## Thateus

paratrooper said:


> It's a skill I acquired many, many years ago.


No doubt. And I'm just about sure you may have even been at the top of your class.
But behind your back they probably saluted you with the middle finger.


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## paratrooper

Thateus said:


> No doubt. And I'm just about sure you may have even been at the top of your class.
> But behind your back they probably saluted you with the middle finger.


You obviously have some issues that need to be sorted out by a mental health expert.

That's the first and only bit of advice I'll give you. The rest, you'll have to figure out on your own.

See ya............:smt1099


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## pic

:smt073


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## pic

Thateus said:


> No doubt. And I'm just about sure you may have even been at the top of your class.
> But behind your back they probably saluted you with the middle finger.


Surprise, surprise , you wanted to get banned so bad. Not!!
We are actually studying your behavior.
You did not find this forum.
We found you!!
How are you feeling after your first TREATMENT?


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## Goldwing

Funny how often I am sure that my older brother is a prick. What's confusing is how fast my fist closes when someone else calls him a prick. Disrespect my friends, and you disrespect me. I'm out!:smt039
GW


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## TAPnRACK

I say we keep him around, he's entertaining if nothing else. 

Obviously we won't gain any knowledge or engage in thought provoking discussion reading his posts... but every village needs an idiot.


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## paratrooper

I don't know if every village needs an idiot, but they certainly need a bar or two. :drinkers:


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## Thateus

---


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## pic

...


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## Cait43

*I vote that none of us respond to anything Thateus posts or replies too........ So far he has offered nothing of importance and has said he has no more respect for any of us than the bums and thugs he lives around...... He made his bed in record time so let's let him lie in it........*


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## Steve M1911A1

Cait43 said:


> *I vote that none of us respond to anything Thateus posts or replies too........ So far he has offered nothing of importance and has said he has no more respect for any of us than the bums and thugs he lives around...... He made his bed in record time so let's let him lie in it........*


I second the motion.

Discussion, anyone?


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## Goldwing

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I second the motion.
> 
> Discussion, anyone?


Life is to short to have assholes ruin even a minute of my day. He seems happy to be rude on the keyboard and follow that by saying he's not here to make friends. Who needs the grief?
GW


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