# Three mags at 7 yds



## rjinga (Jun 24, 2012)

Not my best day at the range, but that's why you practice. Very first mag was at the center mass box. I pulled half of them low, and slightly right. Second mag was at the head; I was trying to aim right in between the eyes. The third mag was at the pelvis. Even without pulling down on the trigger squeeze, I'm pretty sure I was wincing with each shot at the crotch area.







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Note, please, in your middle picture, the _dotted-line rectangle_ from the ears down toward the chest.
This is the best place to group your "head-shot" hits.
Note the ghosted-in skeleton: The hits you made in that box either disrupt the spine, or rupture the carotid arteries.

Pretty nice work, by the way!


----------



## rjinga (Jun 24, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Note, please, in your middle picture, the _dotted-line rectangle_ from the ears down toward the chest.
> This is the best place to group your "head-shot" hits.


I was aiming for (trying to, anyway) between the eyes because I thought that's were the T-box(?) sweet-spot was.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Anywhere in the "T-box" will drop your aggressor intently. Nice work.


----------



## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

A hit to the cranial vault with a handgun is never guaranteed to turn off the computer... a hit with a high velocity rifle round is another story though.

The "T Box" is an older idea that has changed over time... anywhere in the cranial vault area will do the trick. Just spent the last week at Patrol Rifle Instructor School (for LE) and had a long discussion on the subject with some of the most up to date trainers in the business.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

If you manage to place a shot in the "T", it will stop you cold. Doing so is hard, but if you can do it, it is over. If you sever the spine or penetrate the brain, the lights are going out. They may pull through, but they won't be able to fight anymore at that moment. I've never seen or heard of anyone getting hit in the "T" and not stopping immediately.


----------



## rjinga (Jun 24, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> ... anywhere in the cranial vault area will do the trick....


So, is the solid line box around the eyes, nose, and mouth considered the "cranial vault area"?


----------



## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Looks like someone would have had a better day if you didn't shoot them but.....

If you were zoning in work on your trigger control, that's why they're spread out. Having said that you did excellent because in SD shooting you don't think like a bullseye shooter, drilling 2 in the same hole in a bad spot is worse than 2 holes an inch or 2 apart. More holes equals more blood loss and a better likelihood of hitting something vital after a near miss.

There's an old saying, slow is smooth and smooth is fast, it takes time and ammo.


----------



## rjinga (Jun 24, 2012)

rex said:


> .... If you were zoning in work on your trigger control, that's why they're spread out.
> 
> There's an old saying, slow is smooth and smooth is fast, it takes time and ammo.


Interesting - I was trying to focus on a smooth trigger pull. And, I say that ("slow is smooth, smooth is fast") often, including yesterday at the range.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

You can never assume 1 head shot will do what you think. I was in a police academy in the early 1990s. We watched a video recreating an incident. Male cop and female cop fight with a guy in a trailer. Woman is knocked out. Male cop empties six shots into the guy. He is still fighting. He fights while the cop is trying to reload his revolver... Cop eventually managed another 5 shots before the guy falls down.

This was with a 357. Guy had been shot in the brain a bunch of times and kept fighting. He was going to die no matter what... But he was so high on drugs, it wasn't fast enough for the cop still fighting the guy, and trying to keep hold of his gun, in a tiny room.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> You can never assume 1 head shot will do what you think. I was in a police academy in the early 1990s. We watched a video recreating an incident. Male cop and female cop fight with a guy in a trailer. Woman is knocked out. Male cop empties six shots into the guy. He is still fighting. He fights while the cop is trying to reload his revolver... Cop eventually managed another 5 shots before the guy falls down.
> 
> This was with a 357. Guy had been shot in the brain a bunch of times and kept fighting. He was going to die no matter what... But he was so high on drugs, it wasn't fast enough for the cop still fighting the guy, and trying to keep hold of his gun, in a tiny room.


There seems to be a miscommunication wrt "head shots" verses actually hitting someone in the "T" zone. If you hit someone in that small little "T" zone, which basically means a direct middle of the brain shot btwn the eyes or straight down to the chin (in the area that makes a T) you're going to totally destroy the central nervous system and/or the brain stem, at which time all bodily functions cease. Like I said, that is a difficult shot, especially in the middle of a gun fight, but I have never seen, read or heard of someone continuing to move beyond that point.

Now, I have read reports and seen video, pics, you name it, where people were shot in the head and did not go down immediately, but none with a shot btwn the eyes or center of the face where the brain stem was severed. Could it happen? I guess so. In theory, anything is possible. And I have seen some crazy, crazy things, (including an account of a girl being shot in the forehead with a .357 and the bullet traveled down the split btwn the brain lobes without causing drastic damage-if you can believe that) but to date, I've never seen or heard of anyone fighting on after sustaining a "T" shot. WRT to assuming a head shot will disable, well I agree. I never recommend assuming anything, especially in a life/death situation. Shoot and fight until the threat is down, period, of course.


----------



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

Considering a real life situation, getting several shots into the center of body mass may work out better than trying for a brain shot. Moving target after all. bottom line is whatever shot gets the job done and keeps you safe.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I do not remember where in the head he got shot. But, it was just amazing to see this recreating of a real life event... Someone got hit that many times and still fought....


----------



## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Did this several years ago: it was 3 mags at 25 feet with 2 mags swaps in less than 45 seconds. I was shooting pins regularly back then, doubt I could duplicate today. Always at least one flyer...


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> I do not remember where in the head he got shot. But, it was just amazing to see this recreating of a real life event... Someone got hit that many times and still fought....


I can imagine! I've seen some crazy things that I would have never believed had I not either witnessed it or seen in video...crazy!


----------



## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

OP, any of those rounds would have hurt!


----------



## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> You can never assume 1 head shot will do what you think. I was in a police academy in the early 1990s. We watched a video recreating an incident. Male cop and female cop fight with a guy in a trailer. Woman is knocked out. Male cop empties six shots into the guy. He is still fighting. He fights while the cop is trying to reload his revolver... Cop eventually managed another 5 shots before the guy falls down.
> 
> This was with a 357. Guy had been shot in the brain a bunch of times and kept fighting. He was going to die no matter what... But he was so high on drugs, it wasn't fast enough for the cop still fighting the guy, and trying to keep hold of his gun, in a tiny room.


IN Vietnam I saw young VC with 8 and ten rounds in them and still fighting. I saw a buddy of mine go up and attempt to put down an NVA with 6 rounds in him and he was down on his knees still fighting and my buddy got close enough to miss and was shot to death by the NVA. Close enough to miss is something only a combat Vet would understand.


----------

