# Ugly gun ~ Beautiful gun? Who's to say...?



## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

This is NOT about anyone in particular, it's about all of us ...

Why do ya think we allow ourselves to get so "attached" to the guns we own?

Is it the power they hold ?

Is it the $$$ we spend on them ?

Are the weapon choices we make an extention of our personalities ?


I have made wize~azz :smt077 comments & posts about weapons I didn't care for but it was meant in the name of humor. It's not like I was talking badly about someone's kids or family. 

~ I have had people slam my choice of 1911's in the past. 

~ Hell, I own what I believe to be one of the ugliest pistols on the planet which is my G21. 

~ I have disagreed with Mike B. our Mod & Forum Gun Guru, about weapons even though he's probably more knowledgeable than I am about firearms but it was never personal. 

I look at it like this: What do I care if someone doesn't like my choice in weapons, it's like saying my craftsman tools suck, and I should have bought Snap~on because they're just better. What the hell do I care? They aren't the one using the tool. I come from a background where my friends cut-up with each other about almost everything, just guys being guys I guess. If my closest friend wasn't giving me a hard time, then I would probably think he was mad at me. I kid pretty hard with a couple members on this forum through PM's & they give it right back :smt077 and I expect nothing less. 

What do you think ? This is just a few simple thoughts & questions, nothing worth starting a peeing contest over ... is there a chance we discuss this in a civil manner so the thread doesn't get closed?


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> I have made wize~azz :smt077 comments & posts about weapons I didn't care for but it was meant in the name of humor. It's not like I was talking badly about someone's kids or family.


I have made comments about people's choices in weapons in the past and will do so in the future. My thoughts are if you post a picture of your weapon and I think it's ugly, but you say something along the lines of, "Here's my gun", I'll either not respond or congratulate you on the purchase of *a* weapon. However, if you post a picture and put in somewhere that the gun is the greatest or the prettiest or the straightest shooting (fanning the flames if you will) then I refuse to sit idly by and I will express my counter-views, honestly and candidly. That's how I operate. I don't care if you've got 5000 posts or it's your first post, everyone gets treated the same.



Lowdrift said:


> I look at it like this: What do I care if someone doesn't like my choice in weapons, it's like saying my craftsman tools suck, and I should have bought Snap~on because they're just better. What the hell do I care? They aren't the one using the tool.


+1. :smt023:smt023


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I certainly don't take disagreements about gun choice personally. It's just a tool. What works for me may not work for you, or vice versa. I do think there are guns that have objective advantages over others in terms of ease of shooting and/or reliability, but in the end gun choice is far less important (at least in defense) than mindset, marksmanship, gunhandling skill and tactics.

I do agree with Todd. The whole point of the forum is debating guns, right? I'd like to think we're not all a bunch of yes-men here only to slap each other on the back.

Do I necessarily care what everyone thinks of the guns I choose? No. But there are some very knowledgeable people here, and if they criticize something I am doing in terms of guns or shooting technique or whatever, I will give them a listen. In the end I may stick with my own choice, but I appreciate the broader perspective.

And I certainly wouldn't think of buying a new revolver without consulting Bob Wright first!


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Lowdrift, I think you are just trying to start a pissing contest and I also think your glock is ugly as sin. I however am going to be PC and not make any waves. :smt083


:smt1099


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## Alaskan_Viking (Jun 13, 2006)

I flamed the M1911 on here, a while ago...Mike didn't take too well to it. :smt082


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

I try not to become ego-invested in my firearms; and it's a good thing, too, as I sometimes end up with some really ugly shootin' irons (and that's the loving _OWNER'S_ opinion). It has helped me develop a thick skin when it comes to my guns. Here are a couple of examples, that I think we can all agree aren't very photogenic.

The first is a stainless Ruger MK-II .22 pistol that started out life with a 4.75" barrel. The previous owner decided he wanted a suppressor, so he had the barrel shortened and threaded for a muzzle can. Then he bought another gun he liked better, so he traded the Ruger in at a local dealer. The dealer gave me a really good price on it to make it go away (I think it was scaring the other customers), so I bought it, figuring it would make a good truck plinker and small game gun. I didn't like the exposed threads, so I had a local gunsmith shorten the barrel (again) and re-crown it. Because it had no front sight, the previous owner had the receiver grooved for tip-off scope rings, so I put a cheap dot sight on it. This what it looked like (I sold it myself to finance another project):

Wait for it...










Blech. Nice grips, though.

Here is a Smith & Wesson skinny-barrel model 10 .38 special that I wanted to do some accuracy load-testing with, and I decided to upgrade the sighting system to improve the practical accuracy:










Anyway, you get the idea. 
Ugly guns happen, and sometimes they end up in my safe.
It's all cool, they're just tools.


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*Yes Men ? no thanks.*



Todd said:


> I refuse to sit idly by and I will express my counter-views, honestly and candidly. That's how I operate. I don't care if you've got 5000 posts or it's your first post, everyone gets treated the same. :smt023:smt023


 ~ thank you.



Mike Barham said:


> I agree with Todd. The whole point of the forum is debating guns, right? I'd like to think we're not all a bunch of yes-men here only to slap each other on the back.


~ Exactly my point and how dull would this forum be if we did ? I have "learned" alot more than I have taught on this forum and I believe it was through other members honest accounts & opinions.



TOF said:


> Lowdrift, I think you are just trying to start pissing contest. I however am going to be PC and not make any waves. :smt083
> :smt1099


~ no sir, I'm just thinking out loud. I don't care for the "yes~man" attitude either, I suppose it's just not my nature. You being PC ??? That Montana air must be gettin' to ya ... :smt042 
Ok THAT last one was personal.



DJ Niner said:


> Ugly guns happen, and sometimes they end up in my safe.
> It's all cool, they're just tools.


~ Now THAT'S funny , best quote on here lately .......:smt017


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

I've got my favorites, but my philosophy is pretty simple...

If it goes BANG! Then I like it. :smt033






Thanks guys for keeping this subject civil. :smt1099


Actually a "pit" type section might be a cool idea for members to vent, yet be mature and civil at the same time. Just a thought...


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*Yeah, man*



js said:


> I've got my favorites, but my philosophy is pretty simple...
> 
> If it goes BANG! Then I like it. :smt033
> 
> ...


 I think that's an excellent idea ! Very interesting.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

js said:


> Actually a "pit" type section might be a cool idea for members to vent, yet be mature and civil at the same time. Just a thought...


Not a bad idea, though moderation might be a nightmare. And considering a few of the pissing contests I've seen online, you might do well to call it _The Octagon_.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

TOF said:


> Lowdrift, I think you are just trying to start a pissing contest and I also think your glock is ugly as sin. I however am going to be PC and not make any waves. :smt083
> 
> :smt1099


He's always stirring up the pot. He needs to change his user name to Chef Lowdrift. :mrgreen:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Not a bad idea, though moderation might be a nightmare. And considering a few of the pissing contests I've seen online, you might do well to call it _The Octagon_.


Ooh, ooh, I've got it! A non-moderated steel cage area for uber-pissing contests! :smt014:smt014


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*Weellllllll...*



Todd said:


> He's always stirring up the pot. He needs to change his user name to Chef Lowdrift. :mrgreen:


 Naw, 
I really don't try to start peein' contest. I just speak my mind and like I said, I'm just not able to be a "YES~Man". And in doing so, if that causes people not to like me that's OK. At least I'm true to myself & I'm good with that.
I think alot people take forums way too serious. And then there's some that's seem to like to play some sort of grab ass, suck~up game...

Forum member A. "Your cool & have cool stuff":smt049

Forum member B. " No, Your cooler than me & so's your stuff":smt049

Forum member A. "Does this gun make me look fat ?" :smt007

Forum member C. "Your both really super cool & I'll chat with you later" :smt049

Forum member A. "You hang up 1st":smt049

Forum member C. "No, you hang up 1st":smt049

Forum member B. " Let's all hang up together on Three, really ? ":smt049

Good god, get a frickin' room !!! Just speak your own mind & stand your ground .

I just come in here for some downtime and shoot the breeze with everybody, maybe even learn something or get a laugh or two. Sometimes I like to have a beer or a cigar or maybe even both and watch Todd & TOF start sh*t 
:anim_lol:

Ok, I "MAY HAVE" stired a pot or two from time to time but those two boys have been known to burn down the whole damn kitchen ....

:smt043:smt043:smt043


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm attached to my Glock 23 because it's the first semi-auto I bought. Sometimes I've felt guilty for looking at other guns. Kinda like checking out that hot chick that just walked by ya while you're holding your wifes hand. Yes, the wife saw you look.:smt076

I do like the XD's though. Sorry Glock.:mrgreen:

The problem with forums is that what you say is read by others and not heard. You can't hear the way it was said et. I'm accused of having a strange sense of humor and am proud of it but it sometimes comes out really weird when written down. But sometimes it's funny that way when I know someone took it wrong. I like to mess with people that way.

The beauty of this forum camparied to others I've been active on is that for the most part, we are pretty civil. For example, I don't even go to Glocktalk anymore because it was getting nasty. It may have changed but I haven't been here in months.

And that's all I have to say about that.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> I think a lot people take forums way too serious. And then there's some that's seem to like to play some sort of grab ass, suck~up game...
> 
> Forum member A. "Your cool & have cool stuff":smt049
> 
> ...


:anim_lol::anim_lol::anim_lol:



Lowdrift said:


> I just come in here for some downtime and shoot the breeze with everybody, maybe even learn something or get a laugh or two. Sometimes I like to have a beer or a cigar or maybe even both and watch Todd & TOF start sh*t
> :anim_lol:
> 
> Ok, I "MAY HAVE" stired a pot or two from time to time but those two boys have been known to burn down the whole damn kitchen ....
> ...


What? Hey now! I resent .... errr, resemble that remark! :smt076


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

tnoisaw said:


> The beauty of this forum camparied to others I've been active on is that for the most part, we are pretty civil. For example, I don't even go to Glocktalk anymore because it was getting nasty. It may have changed but I haven't been here in months..


Exactly the reason why I don't visit any AR forums any more except for RifleForum.net. Too many assh#@es and armchair commandos. I've seen people get flamed just because of their screen name! My life has enough stress to be bothered with that crap.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

So far as a ugly there's nonthing more ugly than a Glock but that don't stop me from wanting one. In fact it's next on my list. I got to check out this low bore axis and crunchinclicker tigger that makes these things so great. I think I misspelled that Mike. Anyway if it goes bang I want to shoot it for sure.LOL.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Baldy said:


> So far as a ugly there's nonthing more ugly than a Glock but that don't stop me from wanting one. In fact it's next on my list. I got to check out this low bore axis and crunchinclicker tigger that makes these things so great. I think I misspelled that Mike. Anyway if it goes bang I want to shoot it for sure.LOL.


:mrgreen:

That's _crunchenticker_, but it applies to DA/SA pistols, not Glocks. I stole the word from Colonel Cooper, by the way. It's because on one of those pistols, the first shot goes _cruuuuuuuuuuuuunch_, then the gun reverts to SA and goes _tick, tick, tick_ for subsequent shots. I hate that.

Glocks, XDs, P7s, and other more modern designs have consistent triggers, which I much prefer to _crunchentickers_.

I do agree that Glock is probably the ugliest modern pistol. But hey, we mainly carry them concealed. If I want pretty I can look at my wife.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

How in the hell did I miss this beautiful thread!!!!!!! Guns are just tools of the devil and should ALL BE NUKED, of course. Or sent to me to melt down. Ugly guns are great 'cause nobody will steal them (kinda' like what they used to say about.................oh, never mind). :smt033 And DJ, I hate to say it, but those two guns you got pictured are ugly as Fido's ass!


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

My bad. I just want one to see how accurate I can get with it and how it packs. That's what I care about in a defense weapon. I am not looking for a show queen for sure. I'd say a Glock or a XD will fill the bill.:smt023


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, it's people. You get some people who just want everyone's approval. You get some people who just want to look tough/cool/tacti-cool, whatever. And then there are the people who walk into a gun shop and say "What gun should I buy?" As a person, I say whatever works best for you. As a sales person I say, "Have a look at this $2300 Wilson Combat..."

Personally, I think when you use, carry, shoot, work on, etc. a weapon for a long enough time you develop a connection. They become your partner. It has nothing to do with looks or kicking butt in competitions. It has to do with it becoming your partner. In a way, it is like a person. You develop a relationship and trust is earned, not given, and that trust can be lost. Take my guns, for instance. After several years of trusting my life to that Sig, it became almost a friend, and I did refer to her as my work partner. I trusted that gun to never fail. And the day I opened her up and found all those burs and gashes I almost cried. I dealt day in and day out with people making fun of my choice in weapon and my response was always, "I can't speak for every Sig, but _my_ Sig is a wonderful weapon." And now with my Glock, same thing. I won't ever speak for every Glock, but my Glock is becoming my partner very slowly but surely (note, I've also gone nowhere without it since I bought it).

Depends on the person and their thought process. Some don't feel this way about their guns. But I've noticed the ones I built a relationship with I work best with.

P.S. With the exception of a few, I have found ugly guns work the best. I tend to stay clear of pretty guns.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

That's the beauty of guns...

There are three types, in my mind:
1) Functional Combat Tools
2) Pieces of art that go bang... usually
3) And the uncommon example of BOTH, a functional piece of art.

Like a Glock? You'll like a Hummer H2.

Like a Ruger Old Army with ivory grips and delicate engraving? You'll like a vintage Jaguar. 

It's all about personal taste... My guns are all flat black. I drive a V8 American made SUV... I'll buy a stainless 1911 some day... but not as a carry gun. For the same reason I'd buy a classic Corvette. Is a stainless 1911 the best self-defense weapon availible today? No. Any new sports-sedan will whip a classic Corvette at the track, but it won't make people turn their heads as you drive by... That gorgeous 1911 with the expensive hand-checkered wood grips will turn lots of heads at the range...

I love them all, for their utility, and their artistry...

Except maybe for CZ's... lol 
Damn, they're ugly!

Jeff


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> I think alot people take forums way too serious. And then there's some that's seem to like to play some sort of grab ass, suck~up game...
> 
> Forum member A. "Your cool & have cool stuff":smt049
> 
> ...


OK Lowdrift, you better watch your back now. Todd and I will get even. I promise. :twisted: Gees a couple of mild mannered guy's like us guilty of those things. :smt083 :smt083

By the way regarding that list you made up:

Yes, I am cool and all my guns are cool. My recording thermometer say's it was 14 degrees a couple of nights back and you cant accomplish that in Florida so there. 
No, Nobody's stuff is cooler than mine. You'r talking about someone else there. :watching:
Yes my gun makes me look fat. Hell yes cause I am fat and you had to point it out. :smt076
Yes, Damn right I'll hang up first. No one gets ahead of me. :numbchuck:

Todd, I have to go Elk hunting now so you will have to keep that guy under control for a day or two. :mrgreen:

:smt1099


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

TOF said:


> Todd, I have to go Elk hunting now so you will have to keep that guy under control for a day or two. :mrgreen:
> 
> :smt1099


Can do! If he gets out of control, I'll go all Mall Ninja on him! :smt171:smt171:smt171


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*huh ?*



TOF said:


> OK Lowdrift, you better watch your back now. Todd and I will get even. I promise. :twisted: Gees a couple of mild mannered guy's like us guilty of those things. :smt083 :smt083
> 
> By the way regarding that list you made up:smt1099


 Hey T,

ummmmmmm, I think ya mis~read my post. The made~up forum member conversation was not about you, It's how I view the some of the "hug~fests" I see on gun forums these days.

But now that ya mention it ... you are justa bright ray of sunshine, spreading joy & happiness through out the forum with each post you make.
:anim_lol::smt043:anim_lol:

.... :boxing:


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*ok ...*



Todd said:


> Can do! If he gets out of control, I'll go all Mall Ninja on him! :smt171:smt171:smt171


 :smt030 ~ what cha gonna do ? hit me with your man purse ... ? :anim_lol:

:boxing:


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> :mrgreen:
> 
> That's _crunchenticker_, but it applies to DA/SA pistols, not Glocks. I stole the word from Colonel Cooper, by the way. It's because on one of those pistols, the first shot goes _cruuuuuuuuuuuuunch_, then the gun reverts to SA and goes _tick, tick, tick_ for subsequent shots. I hate that.
> 
> ...


Right on there! I married way, way up. I'm like that well worn Glock and my wife is like that new shinny Wilson 1911.


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> :smt030 ~ what cha gonna do ? hit me with your man purse ... ?


Todd carries a purse...? :watching:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> :smt030 ~ what cha gonna do ? hit me with your man purse ... ? :anim_lol:
> 
> :boxing:


Yup!



js said:


> Todd carries a purse...? :watching:


Here's my "purse" and what I carry in it. OK, the AR doesn't fit and the mags don't come with me, but everything else can. :smt033

Comes in handy with two munchkins usually in tow.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

js said:


> Todd carries a purse...? :watching:


He who carries a man bag is a real man and ain't afraid to show it. Todd what heals did you wear with that onsombo?


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

js said:


> Todd carries a purse...? :watching:


~ Now being offered @ HGF.

The class: Forum discussion techniques

The instructor: Professor JS

The subject: Subtle Pot~stirring 101

:smt042


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

*Ouch*



Todd said:


> Yup! Here's my "purse" and what I carry in it.


 ~ well, now that I think about it ... gettin' hit with a fair~sized canvas bag full of metal, up side the knoggin would probably not be a good thing.

I will stand down now, so that you may continue you your patrol Mr. Mall Ninja.

:smt042


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

He is packing Altoids breath mints... It is a requirement to have flesh minty breath when encountering a bad guy. :smt033


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

spacedoggy said:


> He who carries a man bag is a real man and ain't afraid to show it. Todd what heals did you wear with that onsombo?


No heels for me. I'm 6'5" already. I stick with flats. :mrgreen:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> ~ well, now that I think about it ... gettin' hit with a fair~sized canvas bag full of metal, up side the knoggin would probably not be a good thing.
> 
> I will stand down now, so that you may continue you your patrol Mr. Mall Ninja.
> 
> :smt042


You're getting smarter in your old age. That bag is heavy, especially with a full 32 oz water bottle. I will now resume my patrol.



js said:


> He is packing Altoids breath mints... It is a requirement to have flesh minty breath when encountering a bad guy. :smt033


Damn straight!


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> ~ Now being offered @ HGF.
> 
> The class: Forum discussion techniques
> 
> ...


Also being offered:
How to start a pissing contest 101. Instructor: Lowdrift.
How to tell people off 101 in subtle (and not so subtle) ways. Instructor:TOF
Advanced Pot Stirring 301 (prerequisite Pot Stirring 101). Instructors: Todd, Lowdrift, and TOF.
How to start the 9mm vs. .45 debate for the 1 millionth time 101: Instructors: Half the new members
How to ask "Which gun should I buy?" 101. Instructors: The other half of the new members.
How to build a kick-ass AR while working at McDonald's 101. Instructor: None. You sit in class until you realize it's an impossibility.
How to start a thread, get challenged by the other members for what you said, and not have the guts to stand up for yourself or back what you said 101. Instructor: Surprise rotating guest instructors.
How to close a thread 101 (for mods only). Instructors :js and Mike Barham
Hurry! Class space is limited. Only $19.95 per class. All proceeds go to HandGunForum.net and RifleForum.net


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

Todd said:


> You're getting smarter in your old age.


 :smt030 LAUGH IT UP there, Chuckles.

Father Time plays no favorites & has no friends ... and he's after you too my friend and you'll never even see him coming.

:smt077


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## Rustycompass (Jun 25, 2006)

Todd said:


> Also being offered:
> How to start a pissing contest 101. Instructor: Lowdrift.
> How to tell people off 101 in subtle (and not so subtle) ways. Instructor:TOF
> Advanced Pot Stirring 301 (prerequisite Pot Stirring 101). Instructors: Todd, Lowdrift, and TOF.
> ...


:anim_lol:
:smt043:smt046
:smt043:smt042:smt043

I like everything except that last line ... my services are not free. I am however very flexible on my fee's and I will axxept the following but not limited to:
* Hoyo's
* Upmanns
* Sam Adams
* Morgans Reserve

:smt028


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Lowdrift said:


> :anim_lol:
> :smt043:smt046
> :smt043:smt042:smt043
> 
> ...


All the free ball bustin' this forum lets you participate in and you can't teach a class for free. :smt012


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

spacedoggy said:


> He who carries a man bag is a real man and ain't afraid to show it. Todd what heals did you wear with that onsombo?





Lowdrift said:


> ... I am however very flexible on my fee's and I will axxept the following but not limited to:
> ...


Maybe a course titled "More Effective Pot Stirring", Instructor: The Spellchecker

:smt033


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Well Todd, it looks like you kept things under control in my absence, thanks. Good job. :numbchuck:

Now, got Elk and am loaded for bear. Which way did they go? :trans:

:smt1099


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

TOF said:


> Well Todd, it looks like you kept things under control in my absence, thanks. Good job. :numbchuck:
> 
> :smt1099


I do what I can. Had to smack around that Lowlife, ummm, I mean Lowdrift character a bit, but it wasn't much trouble.


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