# Looks Official Now



## Texaspoff (May 28, 2007)

I was browsing the HS website, and it appears HS confirms the XD/HS pistols are finished in Tenifer. I know Springfield refers to it as melonite and I was aware the two treatments were close, but looks like they are the same. I still own a few Glocks and still like them, but my XD's are an improvement over them. My XD-45 replaced my G21SF as my duty weapon and so far it has filled the bill perfectly. Just thought I would pass the info along for anyone interested. Some good info and reading there at HS's website.

http://www.hs-arms.com/europe/english.htm


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm not a big XD fan, but I am glad they have resolved the corrosion problems that plagued the first generations of the HS2000/XD design.

I still think the bore axis is too high, the trigger reset too long, and the grip safety pointless. Maybe they can work on those things now that they've solved the rusting problem. :mrgreen:


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

> I was browsing the HS website, and it appears HS confirms the XD/HS pistols are finished in Tenifer.


How many aspects did they actually copy from Glock anyway?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Ram Rod said:


> How many aspects did they actually copy from Glock anyway?


Not a whole lot, really, if you look at the mechanical design rather than the overall concept of the gun.

The Croatians copied the barrel and slide design from SIG, and inherited the high SIG bore axis in the process. Ditto the sights, which I think may even interchange with SIG sights. The trigger is just a pretty basic striker-fired single-action. The grip safety came, at least in concept, from the 1911, as did the grip angle. The staggered magazines are the common metal rather than plastic. Polymer frames date at least to the HK VP70Z, which predates the Glock by over a decade.

The only thing I can really see that was copied straight from the Glock is the "trigger safety." Well, that and the finish, now. ;-)

None of this is necessarily bad. With the possible exception of Saint Browning (blessed be his name), all designers build on the guns that came before them. Gaston Glock didn't invent short-recoil operation, the "safe action" trigger, a sharp grip angle, the staggered magazine, or the polymer pistol frame. He just put them all together in one gun.


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks for the info there. So what did they come up with on their own?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

The XD isn't a revolutionary design so much as an evolutionary one. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with the latter. Most of the successful guns have been built on designs that came before them. The only really revolutionary gun I can think of in the last few decades has been the HK P7.


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## Joeshwa24 (Nov 14, 2007)

I think it’s funny that everyone always bags on everyone else’s guns because of a lack of originality. The truth of the matter is you can break almost any gun design down to the roots of a few original thinkers so unless your sporting a gun made almost 100 years ago (Not the Model but when it rolled off the line) then your gun is a "Rip off" to. Just shoot what you like and don’t be so insecure as to have a need to put down someone else’s choice.

P.S. I actualy like glocks, 1911s, XD's and almost anything that goes bang, I carry an XD because it feels good in my hand not because the other guns suck or something.


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## PanaDP (Jul 20, 2007)

Most of the firearms (and other inventions, too) that actually are _completely_ new ideas generally suck it pretty bad. Things improve with time and with various people fiddling with one basic idea.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Just for the record, I wasn't "bagging" on the XD. I think it's a very good pistol, actually, and pointed out that my favored Glock is also highly unoriginal.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

You gotta watch out for Mike, he's an XD basher! He can't get over the fact that the XD's high bore axis, long trigger reset, and grip safety (along with the chamber loaded and cocked striker indicators) make it a vastly superior weapon to his Glock. Us XD owners have to have patience and hope that one day he will see the light. :anim_lol::anim_lol::anim_lol:


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Todd said:


> Us XD owners have to have patience and hope that one day he will see the light.


But when I look for the glowing night sights on the XD, they are so far above my hand that I have trouble locating them...

:mrgreen:


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## Texaspoff (May 28, 2007)

When shooting Steel or target I can see the need for using sights. But I can tell you first hand when the SHTF you don't use sights. One thing I like about the XD over the Glock for me anyway, is when I present the weapon and fire, it hits right where I want, without sighting. Just my observation. Now My 21SF points better than the standard Glocks, beacuse of the hump being shaved down a little. I still love Glocks for all thier simplicity, but I feel the XD fits my hand more like my Browning HP, or my 1911. The fit and feel of the XD, Glock, M&P are all subjective to each persons tastes. 
I think when Glocks came out they were revolutionary, I agree with the statement most other polymer pistols are evolutionary. There are alot of other quality polymer pistols out there today. I have shoot most all of them including a VP70, horrible triggers. I just feel like Glock has some competion now that they didn't have in the past. For them to remain at the top of the food chain, they need to improve and enhance thier design as well. The other manufactures are doing this to keep up with commercial and law enforcement/goverment wants and desires. Springfield now uses and I quote from the HS website "Tenifer Plus" on all the XD's now. There was a rust issue with the early guns, complaints came in, they addressed the problem. Now it appears The XD will have and external safety option, on the 45's first then possibly the other models. 
I am not here to bash any pistol design, I can go on all day about pros and cons of just about every pistol out there. There is not a wonder gun that does it all. I simply prefer the XD design over the Glock design for my use. In my department we have officers carrying just about every type of pistol out there. Everything from S&W 686 to my XD-45 and M&P's. Each officer is happy with thier choice, and we trust our own duty weapons as much as we trust each others. During our qualifications, we shoot each others pistols. This is done so that "just in case scenario", we can use each others pistols effectively. Sorry to run on guys, just wanted to get my opinion out there. 
Now should Glock finally decide to come out with a true 45 acp in the same format and size as a G22, well then then my xd-45 might have a run for it's money. :smt1099


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Mike,

Sending my XD off this week for high-altitude glowing Trijicon sights, and a trigger job, to include adjustable over travel, and reducing the reset by HALF... All done at SA.

I'll let you know how she turns out!

Jeff


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I look forward to your report! I'm always a little hesitant about trigger jobs outside of factory specs, especially when guns are run hard. Get the gun good and hot when it returns and you test fire it. If something is going to go out kilter, it usually happens when guns get shot hard and heat up.

Sounds interesting and promising, and if it works well, will answer one of my two main criticisms of the XD design.

The Trijicon sights will serve you well.



JeffWard said:


> Mike,
> 
> Sending my XD off this week for high-altitude glowing Trijicon sights, and a trigger job, to include adjustable over travel, and reducing the reset by HALF... All done at SA.
> 
> ...


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Texaspoff said:


> When shooting Steel or target I can see the need for using sights. But I can tell you first hand when the SHTF you don't use sights. One thing I like about the XD over the Glock for me anyway, is when I present the weapon and fire, it hits right where I want, without sighting. Just my observation. Now My 21SF points better than the standard Glocks, beacuse of the hump being shaved down a little. I still love Glocks for all thier simplicity, but I feel the XD fits my hand more like my Browning HP, or my 1911. The fit and feel of the XD, Glock, M&P are all subjective to each persons tastes.
> I think when Glocks came out they were revolutionary, I agree with the statement most other polymer pistols are evolutionary. There are alot of other quality polymer pistols out there today. I have shoot most all of them including a VP70, horrible triggers. I just feel like Glock has some competion now that they didn't have in the past. For them to remain at the top of the food chain, they need to improve and enhance thier design as well. The other manufactures are doing this to keep up with commercial and law enforcement/goverment wants and desires. Springfield now uses and I quote from the HS website "Tenifer Plus" on all the XD's now. There was a rust issue with the early guns, complaints came in, they addressed the problem. Now it appears The XD will have and external safety option, on the 45's first then possibly the other models.
> I am not here to bash any pistol design, I can go on all day about pros and cons of just about every pistol out there. There is not a wonder gun that does it all. I simply prefer the XD design over the Glock design for my use. In my department we have officers carrying just about every type of pistol out there. Everything from S&W 686 to my XD-45 and M&P's. Each officer is happy with thier choice, and we trust our own duty weapons as much as we trust each others. During our qualifications, we shoot each others pistols. This is done so that "just in case scenario", we can use each others pistols effectively. Sorry to run on guys, just wanted to get my opinion out there.
> Now should Glock finally decide to come out with a true 45 acp in the same format and size as a G22, well then then my xd-45 might have a run for it's money. :smt1099


:smt023:smt023:smt023


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

> In my department we have officers carrying just about every type of pistol out there. Everything from S&W 686 to my XD-45 and M&P's. Each officer is happy with thier choice, and we trust our own duty weapons as much as we trust each others.


That's a very enlightened policy. Too bad all departments don't follow it!

I know several people who have used the sights when "SHTF," though.


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