# Who do you say goes to jail here?



## Glock17 (Nov 29, 2017)

I don't know if this specific incident has been discussed before. Based on the video, who do you think the law would put in cuffs? Unfortunately whatever led up to this confrontation isn't captured on video. If anyone knows of any legal follow-up on this I'd be curious to hear about it.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Hillbilly threw the first punch. Don’t know how else to sort it out.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I saw this video sometime ago. No idea as to what occurred. But, what I do know is that the riders instigated it.

Obviously, no one was hurt *prior* to everyone stopping. Chances are, maybe the guy in the pick-up cut one of them off, and the riders took it personally.

I've been riding on the street for almost 50 yrs. now. I quit counting long ago, how many times someone in a car or truck cut me off in some manner or another.

Worse case scenario, I gave them the bird and continued on my way.


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## mdi (Jan 11, 2020)

Biker instigated confrontation. One man in a truck followed by 5 bikers, and when the field was leveled the man got out of his truck and punched out an arrogant troublemaker. If there were a problem previous to the filmed part, the bikers should have just let it go and not followed and harassed the truck driver for several miles...


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

RK3369 said:


> Hillbilly threw the first punch. Don't know how else to sort it out.


Absolutely, 
In addition they drew a firearm with threats to shoot.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Most individuals don't pick their fights all that carefully. More-times-than-not, it's the alcohol that gets blamed. 

The ego rarely ever gets mentioned.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

All the bed pissing bikers had to do is not follow the truck. 
Whatever the cause of the altercation, they were no longer in threat of anything as the truck rolled away.
They wanted to prove they were not bed pissers and failed.

GW


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> I saw this video over a year ago. No idea as to what occurred. But, what I do know is that the riders instigated it.
> 
> Obviously, no one was hurt *prior* to everyone stopping. *Chances are, maybe the guy in the pick-up cut one of them off, and the riders took it personally.*
> 
> ...


That's probably the most accurate assessment? I doubt that those bikers just decided on their own to chase down the pick up truck for no reason at all? At any rate it was stupid thing to do on their part as they could have ended up getting shot, getting into an accident or deliberately run over by the driver of the truck.

The driver of the truck was pretty stupid too. He too may have gotten shot along with his passenger. At the very least he was outnumbered until those others showed up. He probably should have at least driven to a place where there are a lot of people around or better yet to a police station.

I've been in situations where other drivers have pissed me off. Mostly tailgater's in sports cars who no matter how fast you are going or what the roads are like remain 5 feet from my rear bumper. I drive a full size 1 ton truck it's a high clearance vehicle and does not handle like a sports car. I look for the best place to pull over and let them go. Hoping to find them at the bottom of some canyon.

At one point in my life I went to a trucking school and learned to drive tractor trailers. You'd be surprised at how many people do stupid things around a 30 ton or more vehicle? Especially in the rain. I came damn close to running over some lady that cut me off when it was pouring rain. It was coming down in freakin' buckets. She then lost control of her car and spun around in the middle of the highway right in front of me. I was doing under 30 mph. I didn't know where the hell she even came from? When I finally stopped all I could see was the roof of her car. Another 10 feet and she would have been under the steer axle.

As tempting as it is I'd never flip them the bird. The last thing I'd want is an armed confrontation.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Young guys sporting more testosterone than common sense.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

The question remains, WHO GOES TO JAIL?
Not , how to avoid a situation .


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> The question remains, WHO GOES TO JAIL?
> Not , how to avoid a situation .


No one goes to jail if LE isn't on-scene.

Whether or not LE was even notified remains to be seen. There were plenty of times when I was advised of a situation, and by the time I arrived, it was over and everyone was gone.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

As far as aggressiveness.
Trucker was very aggressive, led the motorcyclist into an ambush and proceeded to physically assault the motorcycle rider


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> No one goes to jail if LE isn't on-scene.
> 
> Whether or not LE was even notified remains to be seen. There were plenty of times when I was advised of a situation, and by the time I arrived, it was over and everyone was gone.


There's video I think,
Note the firearm and hear the audio


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I see two arrests , the man throwing the punches, and the man holding or brandishing the firearm making a threatening statement. 
Victim, witnesses and video to corroborate the assault.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> As far as aggressiveness.
> Trucker was very aggressive, led the motorcyclist into an ambush and proceeded to physically assault the motorcycle rider


From my point of view, the "bikers" (_that's a stretch_) were following the driver. The one rider pulled alongside the driver and was yelling at him.

Who knows what happened anyways? I'm still putting my money on somehow the driver either purposely or inadvertently cut one of them off. I seriously doubt that the driver did it on purpose.

Make no mistakes, m/c riders can be jerks and ass-wipes. Especially, the young(er) ones. As I mentioned previously, no biker was hurt, other than maybe his ego.

The "bikers" chose to follow the motorist and make a big deal out of it. If you're on a bike and you more-or-less call someone out, or force someone to exit their vehicle, you better be prepared to deal with it. The kid on the bike wasn't.

Plenty of stupid to go all around in this situation.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

pic said:


> I see two arrests , the man throwing the punches, and the man holding or brandishing the firearm making a threatening statement.
> Victim, witnesses and video to corroborate the assault.


Regardless of the bikers tailing the truck guy and getting into a verbal confrontation with him, trucker threw the first punch and IMO, is the one who could be charged with assault. Reason doesn't matter, you are not allowed to strike someone except in self defense. Second hillbilly showing up and brandishing that shotgun was just plain stupid. If one of the other people there was armed, you could have had a real shootout. That guy with the shotgun should at least be charged with brandishing a weapon in spite of being pretty threatening with it. If someone came at me pointing a shotgun my weapon would be drawn and I'd be ready to fire. Could have ended up with several dead people.

without LE present though, nobody gets arrested because LE never witnessed anything. He said, she said.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Without additional information, it's a crap shoot as to why it even occurred. It could have been due to an on-going dispute that escalated to the point that it did. 

It wouldn't have happened if the bikers hadn't have followed them. Simple as that...........


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

It ended up with at least one arrest,

https://www.news9.com/story/36371580/man-involved-in-oklahoma-road-rage-incident-tells-his-story


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I rest my case.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Driver fired a shot ? I didn't see that. 
Remember this is Oklahoma ( kidding, I think ) lol.

https://www.news9.com/story/36362442/caffey


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Glock17 said:


> I don't know if this specific incident has been discussed before. Based on the video, who do you think the law would put in cuffs? Unfortunately whatever led up to this confrontation isn't captured on video. If anyone knows of any legal follow-up on this I'd be curious to hear about it.


BREAKING NEWS !!!

Three arrests made and police determined the pickup driver was the aggressor!

https://www.newson6.com/story/36413228/third-arrest-made-in-pawnee-county-road-rage-incident


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Sorry about the multiple updated posts, my search engine notifications kept pumping me with new info. 
Thanks


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## Glock17 (Nov 29, 2017)

pic said:


> BREAKING NEWS !!!
> 
> Three arrests made and police determined the pickup driver was the aggressor!
> 
> https://www.newson6.com/story/36413228/third-arrest-made-in-pawnee-county-road-rage-incident


Mr. "Belly of death" needed to be arrested just for felony obnoxiousness.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

The Hillbilly's were all charged with an assortment of felonies and went to jail. Paul Arnold Wiseley, 60; Russell Lee Watkins, 30; and Wyman Randall Watkins, 34, are all from the Maramec area and face various charges in the road rage incident. Wiseley is charged with armed robbery, two counts of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon and child neglect; Russell is charged with accessory to the armed robbery and misdemeanor assault and battery; and Wyman is charged with armed robbery, assault and battery with a deadly weapon and knowingly concealing stolen property. Evidently the bikers were considered victims and had no charges filed against them.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

Armed robbery??


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Tangof said:


> Armed robbery??


The big heavy guy had a knife in his hand, and as he walked back towards the end of the video he has an object he took from one of the bikers


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

I didn't see that. The trucker was definitely the aggressor in the beat down.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

From the video the motorcyclist showed no aggression. The driver got out and committed assault. That was obvious. And then to not stop and keep up the assault after the motorcyclist was disabled to the point of continued kicking him over and over was unacceptable. (sick bastard)
The shotgun was a pure and simple case of *"Brandishing"*. In my state that alone would have turned the tables and that person would have automatically been thrown in jail. And rightly so.

Road Rage scares me more than any other thing out there. Just had a scare myself.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

On of those boys could have easily been killed by the Red Necks. That video just goes to show how you have to have sititional awarenss. Self control. Even if the other guy is wrong. Ignore it, move on. Do not get caught up in anything. In other words, Just suck it up!

This is what concerns me, and one of the main reasons I carry.

youtube]dJ1P65hlrF8 (cut and Paste)


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## Slowalkintexan (Feb 6, 2007)

First off, those aren’t ‘bikers’....they boys on motor bikes.
Real BIKERS weight 300 pounds, have beard, tats, chains and leather and ride Harleys.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

We saw a biker a few days ago. He was riding some chopped older model of Harley. He had ape hangers on it, and I swear, it was all that he could do, to stretch his arms up high enough to barely reach the grips.

My wife asked me if that was comfortable and if he had better control of the bike? I replied, no and no. 

She then asked me why guys like that do that. I told her it was all about form, and had nothing to do with function.

As long as it looks cool, it don't matter if it handles like crap.


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## Slowalkintexan (Feb 6, 2007)

Years ago had a Harley 74, with what I think was called a ‘springer’ front end......worst dang thing to control.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Slowalkintexan said:


> Years ago had a Harley 74, with what I think was called a 'springer' front end......worst dang thing to control.


I've ridden a HD or two with Springer front ends. All chrome and pretty to look at, but Hell to pay when it came to functionality.

The whole chopper syndrome escapes me entirely. I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes. Fast, powerful, and handled well. I made the transformation to street bikes at age 16. Still owned and raced the dirt bikes though right up to and until I went into the military.

I've been very fortunate to have owned and ridden as many bikes as I have. Not once did I take a single one of them and try to degrade their ability to function as best as they could.

Choppers are all about that. Make um look as cool as possible, and who cares about how well they ride or handle. Get rid of the rear shocks, make um a hardtail, rake the neck and make the forks as long as possible to get the front tire kicked way out front. Put an incredibly small fuel tank on it, so that there's just enough gas to get from one bar to the other. Get rid of the front brake........cause less is more.

Raise those handlebars so high, that your arms begin to go numb after about 20 min. or so. Slam the whole bike so low, that you really no longer need a side stand. Let it rest on the engine's primary case.

And.....chrome as much as you possibly can, and then do some more. The more chrome, the better. More chrome means more power!

And, lots & lots of painted skulls all over, here and there. Put um wherever you can, as well as lots of painted naked women.

And, of course, last but not certainly least, get yourself lots of tattoos. Mostly skulls and naked women.


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## Slowalkintexan (Feb 6, 2007)

I never had tats,,,, not too much chrome either,,,,However, back in the day you could buy a 45 or a 74, in the Spring,,,with a license plate on it.....and then in the fall sell it.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> I've ridden a HD or two with Springer front ends. All chrome and pretty to look at, but Hell to pay when it came to functionality.
> 
> The whole chopper syndrome escapes me entirely. I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes. Fast, powerful, and handled well. I made the transformation to street bikes at age 16. Still owned and raced the dirt bikes though right up to and until I went into the military.
> 
> ...


You mean like these? As for me I'd want one, but not with the ape hangers. I love the look of those V-Twin engines. They're so mechanical looking, they remind me of those radial aircraft engines. I'd want a solid color. Those elaborate paint schemes are distracting and take away from the looks of the engine and drivetrain. But then again I'm into machinery. If I had a motorcycle I'd want to show off my nuts.

My father and brother both had Honda Goldwings. The were basically a car on two wheels. Everything was covered up. I never owned a motorcycle, they're a little too dangerous for my tastes especially with all the reckless idiots out on the highway. That's one of the main reasons why I decided after 26 weekends of driving a tractor trailer. That as much as I liked driving them I did not want to do that for a living. I don't know how these truck drivers can deal with that 24/7 in all kinds of weather and situations?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

desertman said:


> You mean like these? As for me I'd want one, but not with the ape hangers. I love the look of those V-Twin engines. They're so mechanical looking, they remind me of those radial aircraft engines. I'd want a solid color. Those elaborate paint schemes are distracting and take away from the looks of the engine and drivetrain. But then again I'm into machinery. If I had a motorcycle I'd want to show off my nuts.
> 
> My father and brother both had Honda Goldwings. The were basically a car on two wheels. Everything was covered up. I never owned a motorcycle, they're a little too dangerous for my tastes especially with all the reckless idiots out on the highway. That's one of the main reasons why I decided after 26 weekends of driving a tractor trailer. That as much as I liked driving them I did not want to do that for a living. I don't know how these truck drivers can deal with that 24/7 in all kinds of weather and situations?
> 
> ...


Maybe it's just me, but I want my m/c to have suspension front & rear.......not just under the seat.

And, I want an engine that will happily rev up to and beyond 10K rpm. For some, a m/c is nothing more than a mode of transportation.

But, in my case, it has to be able to liberate and stimulate my heart & soul. I never got into street rods, exotic sports cars, or muscle cars.

Never could get a kick out of Route 66. But, you let me get on a good m/c, and I'll get my fill of kicks.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Slowalkintexan said:


> First off, those aren't 'bikers'....they boys on motor bikes.
> Real BIKERS weight 300 pounds, have beard, tats, chains and leather and ride Harleys.


.....AND THESE "BOYS" rode 14 miles out of their way to file a complaint. The problem was that the guy who they harassed for 14 miles was joined by his wife and 3 children on this journey and I can imagine the scene in that truck for those 20 minutes. Terrified kids, wife giving really helpful instructions in a voice that you do not recognize.
And then the prick that authored all of that angst demands that you stop so he can file his complaint.
I might have slugged him myself.

GW


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I want my m/c to have suspension front & rear.......not just under the seat.
> 
> And, I want an engine that will happily rev up to and beyond 10K rpm. For some, a m/c is nothing more than a mode of transportation.
> 
> ...


As much as I'd love to have a motorcycle I'll never get one. I've ridden on the back of one and can understand why it would be addicting. Driving a tractor trailer at least to me is the same way sometimes I regret not following through with it. Whenever I see a nice big "Pete" or "KW" I just want to get up and drive one again. But it's not an easy life living out of a truck or just being out on the highway 24/7 dealing with all of the idiots in all kinds of weather. It would probably get old fast. If I had a place to keep one I'd want one just to drive for the fun of it. New one's with a sleeper go for around $160,000. Drivable used one's go from $30,000 and up depending on condition. That would be some restoration project.

Cars and guns have always been my thing. I built a street rod and am sorry I sold it. But now I'm into keeping cars original. I want to preserve their historical value. One of my friends just got a '29 Ford Model A with the original 4 banger. I love the sound of that engine, it makes me smile. It's only got 40 h.p. and probably can't get out of it's own way. But it's such a cute little car. Mine are from the late 30's and are a little more technologically advanced at least for that era. They don't accelerate that fast. But once up and going I can keep up with traffic.

We've gotten our "kicks" on Route 66 many times from Seligman to Kingman. We'd get off 40 and on to Crookton Road. Do a little train watching from the old RR bridge. I would love to operate one of those big ES44AC locomotives. That must be awesome, all of that weight and horse power behind you. I love the sound of those big Diesel engines and air horns that say: "GET OUTTA' MY WAY". My wife and I made several cross country trips all by rail. Flagstaff to Chicago then Chicago to New York and back.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Here's a perfect example of function being forsaken for form.

Someone, at one time, actually thought it was a good idea.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Hmmm...

A Triumph, but with ugly upholstery. So, it's somewhat less than a complete Triumph.

The pretty lady is gonna burn her sweet little feet!
.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Here's a perfect example of function being forsaken for form.
> 
> Someone, at one time, actually thought it was a good idea.
> 
> View attachment 18344


That looks ridiculous.


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## Slowalkintexan (Feb 6, 2007)

Steve, I don’t think that cycle is running at the moe, so pretty lady’s feet are safe.


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