# Arma Laser Vs Crimson Trace



## davis_b_1

I am looking at getting a Laser for my LCP, what does everybody think about Arma Laser and Crimson Trace? What one would you go with and why?


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## tekhead1219

Why put a laser on an LCP?


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## JeffWard

tekhead1219 said:


> Why put a laser on an LCP?


*Because in a handgun this small, with virtually no sights, and a 3" sight radius, shooting in a stressful situation, where a .380ACP will require extreme accuracy to effect a stop, NOTHING beats a laser.*

PERIOD.

In answer to the OP...

Buy the Crimson Trcae. The Armalasers touch activation system has been suspect. I removed mine from my XD9SC (the RSS model). I returned it first due to the laser going out of focus under heavy shooting, and then has the touch system fail entirely. I've had two Crimson Trcae systems, and though expensive, they are very good.

I'll have one for my 3-AT as soon as budget allows (after the holidays...)
JeffWard


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## tekhead1219

JeffWard said:


> *Because in a handgun this small, with virtually no sights, and a 3" sight radius, shooting in a stressful situation, where a .380ACP will require extreme accuracy to effect a stop, NOTHING beats a laser.*
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> JeffWard


Better answer is "because I want one". I cannot even imagine the laser being a good training guide for trigger pull on a DA only handgun this small. I'm not sure that everyone is trained in shooting in a highly stressful situation. I'm sure that there are some people that can maintain their cool and aim that little red dot right between the eyes (to effect a stop) and squeeze that DA trigger smooth enough to keep that dot in place, all the while ducking and diving to keep from being shot. That was why I asked the question.:smt023:anim_lol:


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## davis_b_1

The buton is what worries me about the CT being on such a small gun that already don't have allot of grip, it looks like it takes up allot of room and may not let you get a good hold on it. Where the AL has "touch sensor's" and you don't have to press any buttons and have a full grip on the gun.


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## davis_b_1

tekhead1219 said:


> Why put a laser on an LCP?


The reason for me is I think it is that much more intemidation of the BG, most of the time just a gun in the face will difuse the situation, but having a red dot on your chest is that much more. I really don't think anybody wants to shoot anybody so I think the more you can do to stop the situation the better.


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## bruce333

JeffWard said:


> [Buy the Crimson Trcae. The Armalasers touch activation system has been suspect. I removed mine from my XD9SC (the RSS model). I returned it first due to the laser going out of focus under heavy shooting, and then has the touch system fail entirely.


Do you know if yours was the GENI or the GENII? They redesigned the GENII touch system, so supposedly it's better.

I had found a review of the Armalaser online (can't find it right now) that said they did have some trouble with the laser QC, that was also addressed with the redesign.


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## JeffWard

My redesigned one died... after about 30 rounds. It was the SECOND fix on the laser... after the first early version went fuzzy after about 200 rounds. The touch system would go on and off with inadvertant bumps, and the sensor is right at the trigger guard, where it gets bumped. I was deactivating the RSS laser (unintentionally) with the BACK of my trigger finger knuckle, on the left side of the gun... Good concept... POOR practicality. And NOT durable. My FIRST Armalaser, on my Kahr PM40, was FANTASTIC... I bragged about it. The new RSS... not so good.

Now.... I've been waiting for a refund, for 4 weeks, and I'm not getting any answers back, phone or email.

Armalaser has $189 of mine, and BOTH of their lasers back...

I haven't raised the issue here, or elsewhere yet, but I have about 3 days left on my fuse...

JeffWard


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## niadhf

i would like to know more after this is resolved. I'm considering a laser for P-11 and Arma laser makes one. CT doesnt. Wanna push CT if Arma is know good.


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## Murdoch

As for the grip issue with the switch on the CT grips, it's non-existent. Try some out at a dealer - they're really well designed on the ergonomic side, even those odd looking ones for the XD. I handled a friend's XD with the CT's recently. You can feel them, but it's not uncomfortable at all.


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## backyardshooter

davis_b_1 said:


> I am looking at getting a Laser for my LCP, what does everybody think about Arma Laser and Crimson Trace? What one would you go with and why?


Got a ct on P3at it is the only way to go. 7 yards 6 shots in 3" group rapid fire


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## secondfirst

*Armalaser LCP Review*

Here's my $.02: I have an LCP with an Armalaser. FYI- I love the pistol, it is plenty accurate for such a tiny gun, and totally reliable so far with all ammo. My first range trip, I got 2-3" 7-shot groups all day at 10 yards offhand with the tiny "sights", (right at POA) and I'm sure a better shooter could have closed those up. Good enough for me! 
However, I can't comment on the laser's effect on accuracy, because I couldn't even see it on target to zero it. It was a very bright day in full sun. In the dark, or indoors in low light, the laser appears quite bright. 
I'll quote some Armalaser ad copy below, and comment on it. These quotes taken from the Armalaser website:

"NOW COMES WITH FREE DESANTIS NEMESIS POCKET HOLSTER!!!"

Well, I have yet to see my free holster. In fact, after my latest email (of several) inquiring into when the Nemesis might arrive (got the laser months ago) Rick responded with "what holster do we owe you?" which seems bizarre, as I had just asked in that very email where my "Nemesis" was and when I might see it... And that's the only free holster that (in theory) comes with it... Hmm.

"Only the ArmaLaser SMALL BLOCK attaches directly INTO the LCP frame. You can bang on it with a hammer, you're not going to get it to move! Back-pocket carry isn't even an issue. Offers 100% no up/down movement. Uses the side of the grip to offer 100% no left/right movement."

Unfortunately, this is untrue. It's actually very easy to get the laser to flex right or left with moderate off-hand pressure in a Weaver, and you can see the dot displace relative to the sight picture. It does not return to a perfect zero. Now, this is somewhat academic given the intended use of this gun and laser, but the ad copy is simply untrue. The system does seem fairly durable and robust, but "100%"? Nope. I wouldn't want to try sitting on it in a back pocket, either.

"Only the ArmaLaser SMALL BLOCK takes advantage of the natural indentation on the Ruger LCP grip sides to stop movement 100%. And the design doesn't add any width to the pistol itself."

Nope. Actually, the laser adds significant width to the pistol as anyone with eyes can see, and anyone with calipers can verify: Slide=.750" max, .696" @ muzzle before final taper; widest point on LCP= .820" @ slide stop. Armalaser= .860" across body, .950" across the oddly non-flush hardware. 
A lawyer might say that the laser does not add width to _the pistol itself_ which I suppose is technically true, but the laser unit is substantially wider than any part on the pistol itself. It's about as wide as the grip with a Handall Jr installed- .980" at widest point. And unfortunately, that added width is right where you don't want it for pocket carry; below and in front of the muzzle, which makes it print on the right side of your right front pocket. I brought this up in an email to Rick, and he ignored it. It's interesting that there are no pictures of the LCP/Armalaser combo from the front on Armalaser's website, just profile shots, because from the front it's easy to see how wide and bulky it is right where the pistol is slimmest. I am disappointed by this misrepresentation.

"Our block outline offers an anti-printing advantage."

True, which is one of the reasons I bought it. I do wish it was better shaped for pocket carry, though. For IWB it's fine.

"As an ArmaLaser owner, the experience doesn't end when we get your money like it is with many other companies."

Well, that's certainly true. They've had my money for months now, and I still haven't gotten my order completed, so my Armalaser experience is ongoing... Initially, when they finally shipped the laser (quite late) they didn't ship the Varta batteries I paid for. Then, they shipped Energizers. Finally, after repeated emails, they did eventually send out extra Vartas, which was nice. Still no holster, though.

Unfortunately, my conclusion is that there's some real hype and hyperbole in Armalaser's advertising, and some customer-service issues at the company. I'm not trying to slam them, but to give an honest review of my experience. I do hope the laser will prove durable, accurate, and reliable in the long term. But anybody considering one may wish to take the manufacturer's claims with a large grain of salt. I'll withhold judgment on anything further, and just assume I will see that elusive free Nemesis sooner rather than later, but Caveat Emptor. I've tried very patiently to resolve all this with Rick, but his latest response prompted me to share my experiences here. YMMV.


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