# Why not the 1911?



## BowerR64 (Oct 2, 2012)

Im not much into gun history, just started shooting october 2012

I remember in the 70s early 80s the police seem to use revolvers alot. Why not the 1911?

Thats one thing that always threw me was the 1911 always seems more modern then revolvers but i never seen them used as much growing up. I always seen the revolvers used more then the glock came along and everyone seem to jump on the glock like they couldnt wait to ditch the revolvers.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

safety concerns about single actions and cost. The .38 spl worked fine for police applications and there wasn't a need to upgrade. They were not a paramilitary agency until the war on drugs started. There were safety concerns about single action guns and public view of cock and locked handguns played a role. The list goes on....


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## shouldazagged (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm very much a revolver man, although I've owned more pistols over the years, including Glocks. But compared to the 1911, which I admire tremendously, the wheelgun is relatively safe (and idiot-proof) _unless it's cocked for single-action fire. _Some major police departments had their revolvers (.38 Specials and .357 Magnums) modified for double action only because accidental discharge in single action mode is so easy in high-stress situations.

(Speaking for myself, I don't want the option of single action in a self-defense situation, and carry a DAO revolver.)

Then by the time the high-capacity semi-autos appeared, negligent-discharge and other civil suits were becoming numerous, even with the Glocks, and so were re-holstering accidents at first. There were several of those when the police department in my city transitioned to the Glock, and they were highly publicized. All kinds of hell was raised in the press about that 5.5 pound trigger, until the training caught up. Our officers had been carrying DA/SA Smith autoloaders.


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## BowerR64 (Oct 2, 2012)

But it took all that time to put the features of the revolver into an auto loader like glock did? Sorry if this sounds stupid but the glock is just the same type of setup as a revolver but with the auto loading advantage. Its like a 1911 stripped of all its extra safty mechanisims isnt it? Revolvers are always ready to go as is the glock. The 1911 has to be held properly with the right grip and safty off.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Police personnel do not train with their pistols sufficiently to preclude the possibility of an accidental or negligent discharge during a moment of stress. Therefore a double-action (DA) trigger pull was considered much safer for police use, than a single-action (SA) with a safety lever (_e.g.,_ the 1911).
European police realized this in the early years of the 20th century, and adopted the traditional-double-action (TDA) trigger as seen on Walther PPs and PPKs. Their DA first shot was the added safety factor that permitted the use of semi-auto pistols.
American police departments were very slow to adopt this innovation, in part because there was very little capacity advantage to using a semi-auto, and in part because the TDA semi-autos that were available used ineffective ammunition. (Someone once observed that when shot, a European criminal was so shocked and insulted that he would just sit down on a curbstone and begin to cry; while an American criminal who had been shot would get angry, and would attack and try to kill the cop who had shot him.)
The switch in the US came when high-capacity semi-autos with either TDA or double-action-only (DAO) triggers became available in fight-stopping calibers. (I consider the Glock trigger to be DAO, even though it really isn't.)

There have always been some PDs which permitted SA semi-autos, with the proviso that the officer choosing to carry one had to prove his proficiency with it on a regular basis. Frequently, it also required the permission of the PD's range officer.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

These guys gave you a pretty good rundown of the LE history.

My view is as stated earlier,most LE aren't gun enthusiasts,can't shoot worth a crap,and their practice is the bi-yearly qualifying.Been there,seen it,and it's nationwide.Even the good shots that are semi enthusiasts can't handle a 1911 safely under stress,they'll fumble with controls that endanger themselves or they endanger others because of improper trigger control on such a nice trigger.I have no problems with one because of a long love and experience with it.My controls work as they should so they always do their job with any firing grip I have and the gun is just an ingrained part of me,I don't have to think of anything but sights and trigger.

Trigger is the word,and the whole problem.You don't touch a trigger until you're ready to shoot as we all know.A cop is covering a guy that's still a danger,stressed trying to de-escalate the scene,and guess where the finger is.A little squeeze and the 1911 goes off,but the Glock needs just a little more pressure to go off than that and a DA needs even more.Quite a few cops will tell you they had a DA trigger staged quite a bit without knowing until the situation eased and they came off the trigger.That would be an AD with a 1911.My finger is off the trigger but in the guard until I want a bullet to leave and comes back off when I want to stop,if you can't do that a 1911 is only good for punching paper to me.

I consider a Glock more SA because the striker spring basically 'cocked' like a 1911 hammer,the Glock finishes off that last little bit and is just longer takeup compared to a 1911 just pushing 2 springs a short distance.I believe the 1911 is a better and safer design for a few reasons but we won't get into that.


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