# The Taurus Question



## Tangof

I see the Taurus line being ripped up on every Forum, At first I thought this was a case of "It's no good because it's not what I like." Kind of like the Glock Syndrome. But with this much gunsmoke there has to be some fire. What specific Taurus models are no good? I own the PT92,99, M66,64, PT22 and the old style M94. I have shot them all quite a lot, the 92 a hideous amount. Never a repair or problem. But, these guns are old. Nothing newer than 1995. Are the newer models lacking in quality control? Design problems? CZ and Glock are my carry pieces now, but I still wouldn't feel badly armed with the old 92.


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## Goldwing

:watching::watching::watching::watching::watching:


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## VAMarine

The older revolvers and Beretta clone are typically held in higher regard.


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## desertman

Tangof said:


> View attachment 1631
> I see the Taurus line being ripped up on every Forum, At first I thought this was a case of *"It's no good because it's not what I like."* Kind of like the Glock Syndrome. But with this much gunsmoke there has to be some fire. What specific Taurus models are no good? I own the PT92,99, M66,64, PT22 and the old style M94. I have shot them all quite a lot, the 92 a hideous amount. Never a repair or problem. But, these guns are old. Nothing newer than 1995. Are the newer models lacking in quality control? Design problems? CZ and Glock are my carry pieces now, but I still wouldn't feel badly armed with the old 92.


*No nothing like that.* It's just that they are what they are. A lot of people do not like Glocks as they are not very pretty, however they do work and work very well. It's rare that you'll ever hear of someone having problems with a Glock. While you may have not had a problem with the Taurus handguns that you own. There are just too many that have had issues with both their products, customer service and the fact that they have to be sent back to the factory for repairs as Taurus does not sell any of the parts for their handguns on the open market. I personally know of two people who had problems where their guns which had to be sent back to the factory for repairs one was straight out of the box and as of yet had never been fired. If one were to compare a Taurus PT92 to a Beretta 92 the difference in quality would be quite obvious. There's got to be a reason why the U.S. Military chose the Beretta over the Taurus. While at first glance they may look the same but upon careful examination they are not. The biggest difference is the level of machine work, metallurgical issues and fit and finish between the two. *You do get what you pay for*. The problems with Taurus products are well known throughout the firearms community. Sorry, I hope you do not take any of this personally but it is what it is.

As far as I'm concerned I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep as to what type of handgun another individual chooses to buy. It is their money and they are free to flush it down the "terlit" if they so choose. However there are others who are seriously looking to buy a good quality handgun for themselves and really do not know jack shit about guns. To them they all look the same. Some of us feel we have a responsibility to steer those folks in the right direction when it comes down to choosing a product that their lives may one day depend on. As far as which specific Taurus products are troublesome? I wouldn't recommend any of them. They are all manufactured by the same company. A company that has long had quality control issues with both their products and customer service.

You've made a wise decision in choosing a CZ or Glock as your carry pieces. You rarely hear of any complaints with either of them.


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## Spike12

I always find that if I want to get the real skinny on a gun; find its forum. 

A few years ago I found a pretty active Taurus forum. I came away with the impression that the members fell into two camps: 1) I just bought it and I'm in lust or 2) I want something else. 

I've had 2 of their snubby revolvers and I thought they were great. I wish I still had them. Some of the their larger revolvers haven't really turned me on.

But the general word on the street around here seems to be that when they first started out and were made in Brazil it was really a hit or miss purchase and usually miss. CS was non-existent. But in the last few years they've moved to FLA and really got their act together. 

I think if you do your homework about a particular model you can wind up with a good gun at a good price but their older poor reputation will hold back the re-sale value. I don't think there's room at the top with Ruger, S&W, Colt, etc. for Taurus yet. Reputations like theirs take a long time to get and Taurus hasn't paid enough dues.


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## DLYskes1976

I think Spike12 probably summed it up the best.... i cant remember what video i was watching on youtube, but the person basically said the same thing.... the old Taurus handguns "was" the issue and so of course it just became what you heard from people about Taurus.... even though they've completely changed and their product is top notch now.. 

My dad has two taurus hand guns and has never had a issue with either of them.. I have a PT111 g2 9mm, and love it.. its accurate as hell, and is a nice carry n conceal type of hand gun...


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## Bisley

In my opinion, they have made a marketing decision that advertising can overcome the failure to maintain consistency in quality. They hired a CEO, a few years back, who was going to fix their quality control problems and improve the public perception, but they fired him before he could get it done. Cheaper guns are their niche in the market place, and a high failure rate is compensated for in other ways, rather than actually improving it.

They could sharpen their milling tools more often, improve their MIM process, tighten up their inspection standards, and hold employees accountable for shoddy work, but they don't. So, one has to assume that they target the part of the market that doesn't pay attention to such things.


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## DirtyDog

I've bought three PT111 G2s in the past 18 months. One for me, one for my son, and one for my son-in-law. Each has had a fair bit of use (the two that I gifted are the only gun they own, so they're shot regularly) and none have had even a hint of a problem. 

I know a guy who bought a Ferrari and had a lot of problems with it. I drive a Corvette and have had zero problems with it. Does this mean that a Chevy is a better car than a Ferrari, or does it mean that any manufacturer can have the occasional production issue?


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## win231

The quality of all firearms (and other products as well) has declined. But when a gun like the Taurus _starts out _with spotty quality control & gets worse, there will, of course, be more unhappy people. "Gun Tests" magazine (which didn't accept advertising) frequently gave Taurus autos & revolvers an "F" grade because they didn't function out of the box. There's a reason Taurus guns are cheaper.

People who praise cheap guns are so happy with the low price, they're willing to overlook & forgive poor reliability.


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## Shipwreck




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## Bisley

DirtyDog said:


> I've bought three PT111 G2s in the past 18 months. One for me, one for my son, and one for my son-in-law. Each has had a fair bit of use (the two that I gifted are the only gun they own, so they're shot regularly) and none have had even a hint of a problem.
> 
> I know a guy who bought a Ferrari and had a lot of problems with it. I drive a Corvette and have had zero problems with it. Does this mean that a Chevy is a better car than a Ferrari, or does it mean that any manufacturer can have the occasional production issue?


It means that some Chevys have less problems than some Ferraris - nothing else.

I'm glad you like your guns and I hope they last forever. It does provide some evidence that they are _capable_ of building a decent gun. But it doesn't change the fact that Taurus lets too many of their mistakes get out the door.


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## desertman

win231 said:


> The quality of all firearms (and other products as well) has declined. But when a gun like the Taurus _starts out _with spotty quality control & gets worse, there will, of course, be more unhappy people. "Gun Tests" magazine (which didn't accept advertising) frequently gave Taurus autos & revolvers an "F" grade because they didn't function out of the box. There's a reason Taurus guns are cheaper.
> 
> *People who praise cheap guns are so happy with the low price, they're willing to overlook & forgive poor reliability*.


That's pretty much it.


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## PhillyCheese




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## win231

PhillyCheese said:


>


LOL! It's so bad, it even malfunctioned while it fired itself.


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## desertman

PhillyCheese said:


>


Shake rattle and roll! Wouldn't want to carry it while jogging or even hiking for that matter. While driving off road or maybe even going over a rough road. Better keep a first aid kit handy and a fire extinguisher.


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## janet0

interesting thread


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## Stengun

Howdy,

I posted this on a different thread:


"we More Taurus bashing from non-Taurus owners. 

Taurus basher: I wouldn't own one of those POS!

Me: Have you ever owned one?

Basher: No. 

Me: Have you ever fired one?

Basher: No. 

Me: Have you ever held one? 

Basher: No. 

Me: Have you ever talked to anyone that actually owned one,

Basher: Yes, one. He liked it. 

Me: I like mine too. 

Taurus basher, Glock bashers, etc. are a hoot. They have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but put out their uninformed opinion like it was written in red in the Holy Bible. 

A few years ago one of the girls that spent a lot of time at my home ( she was BFFs with my daughter ) who lived with her elderly grandparents ( they were in their mid 70's ) had just turned 12 asked me about "girl stuff". 

Me being a mid 40yo married man with a 13yo daughter, a 18yo and 24yo stepdaughters knew a little about "girl stuff". 

So, what did I do? 

Luckily the 24yo stepdaughter, Tracy, that was married with 2 kids happened to be there that day so I took her into the computer room where the Tracy was surfing the 'Net and said to her: "This is Kaylee. She needs to know about "girl stuff". She lives with her elderly grandmother who isn't much help." 

Tracy, as she pulled up another chair said "Sweetie, have a seat and we'll talk." 

At this point I left the room, closing the door behind me and went back to watching football, NASCAR or whatever I was watching on TV. 

I know quite a bit about the female body but in this case instead of giving bad advice or misinformed advice I decided to keep my month shut and let someone with first hand experience provide advice. 

HTH

Paul"

I have over 25 handguns ranging everywhere from a Jennings J22 to 3 Glocks, a S&W .38 that was made in the 70's to Browning, Ruger, etc just to name a few and even though my Taurus PT845 .45acp is one of the lower prices handguns that I own it is very well name and after +1,500 rounds it's flawless except for my crappy 200gr LSWC handloads. 

Every time someone shows a Sig or H&K and says "It's just as good as your Glock!" I say keep trying to convince yourself of that. 

Every time someone shows a Sig or H&K and says "It's better than your Taurus!" I say "Yeah, but it's not $500.00 better. For what you paid I can buy a Taurus, which is almost as good as your _______ and buy a Glock which is hands down better than your ________."

Paul


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## dakota1911

They are interesting guns. I bought a Millenium Pro years ago in .45 Nice little pistol. True DAO and the trigger pull is not that bad. I liked the thumb safety and even with a 10 round mag capacity the grip seemed better than a Glock. I still shoot it every now and again.



Next I picked up a couple of the Taurus 5 shot revolvers in .45ACP. The Tracker is SS of course and the other is a very interesting Total Titanium one. Well the barrel is a rifled SS tube and the lockwork parts are steel. The Tracker has been fine but the Titanium guy jammed up when I had not shot a lot out of it. None of the gunsmiths I know and trust will touch a Taurus so I opened it up and found some metal curly Qs of the type that come off of a lathe or drill press. Cleaned things up, put it back together and it has been fine.



Then there is the Taurus PT1911. I bought about the first one in my area. So first kid on the block. It was $499 from a LGS I shopped at a lot. Now the finish was sort of crappy looking. It looked like you could take your thumb and rubb it off, but you couldn't. Still it had lots of extras for the price. The fit and finish on mine was not bad considering the price. Functioning was good and it was fairly accurate. I let friends, relatives and shooting buddies shoot mine and a lot of them went out and bought their own. Most of them had serious problems with theirs like safeties falling off. Bad jams, etc. And when they called Taurus the company was not very friendly. To this day I am careful who I go shoot mine with as I still get growls and dirty looks. I usually shoot it alone. Still, mine, with over 2K rounds of mostly FMJ through it, has not caused me any problems.


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## nrd515525

My first gun was a Taurus .38 Spl Model 83. It spit on DA shooting, leaded up amazingly bad due to a barrel that wasn't made right at all. I sent it back to Taurus twice, and while they fixed the timing issue, they denied the barrel was defective. I wish I had taken a pic of it. None of the gunsmith's I showed it to had the slightest clue how the rifling could stop and start up again about 2" into the barrel. Six shots and you had to pound the lead out of it. I swore I would never buy another Taurus gun, but a while back, a friend's really great PT-809 suckered me in and I bought one. While it wasn't as bad as the first one, it had FTF and "limp wristing" issues, and like before, Taurus didn't resolve the issues and I'm totally done with them. I have a Canik TP9V2 coming to satisfy my cheap gun wants.


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## nrd515525

I spoke too soon. A friend of mine keeps buying guns that I end up buying too. The latest is a Taurus PT111 Millenium G2. At $199,95 at PSA, I couldn't resist. But if it's another dud, I'm done forever with Taurus. 3 strikes and they are out.


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## berettatoter

The only Taurus I have left is one that I got recently, a Christmas gift from the wife. It is a PT92AF, and so far it has no problems running side by side with my Beretta 92FS. I am happy with it.


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## Babbalou1956

I had 2 Model 85 revolvers in the early 90s & liked them, no problems. Bought a Model 66 a few years ago & it feels like an $800 gun to me. Very high quality, excellent trigger DA or SA, tight lock up & very accurate. It's a 7 shot, medium frame .357. Mine's the blued one & I put a Hogue wood grip on it. Beautiful gun. It doesn't have a shiny, deep blue like old Colt Pythons but it's not a $1,200 gun. It's my wife's favorite gun to shoot & it stays in her nightstand with .38 +P Gold Dots. I had been looking for a S&W 686 Plus but they were not available anywhere so I crossed my fingers buying the Taurus & I'm glad I did, saved about $400. Other Taurus models I can't speak about, I only know what I've read.


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## nrd515525

My PT111 Millenium G2 is so far, a great little gun. It hang up on the third shot, and then sawed though 11 full mags of 12 rounds since then without issues. We shot my friend's 66 too, and it was very nice. I guess they do make a good gun, at least once in a while.


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## shootbrownelk

Babbalou1956 said:


> I had 2 Model 85 revolvers in the early 90s & liked them, no problems. Bought a Model 66 a few years ago & it feels like an $800 gun to me. Very high quality, excellent trigger DA or SA, tight lock up & very accurate. It's a 7 shot, medium frame .357. Mine's the blued one & I put a Hogue wood grip on it. Beautiful gun. It doesn't have a shiny, deep blue like old Colt Pythons but it's not a $1,200 gun. It's my wife's favorite gun to shoot & it stays in her nightstand with .38 +P Gold Dots. I had been looking for a S&W 686 Plus but they were not available anywhere so I crossed my fingers buying the Taurus & I'm glad I did, saved about $400. Other Taurus models I can't speak about, I only know what I've read.


 From what I see at my LGS, the folks that bring in Taurus guns leave disappointed. The guys behind the counter quote a trade-in price that's almost insulting it's so low. Or they don't even want it in trade. Resale value is non-existent in Taurus guns in general. That 686 you mentioned will increase in value, not go in the toilet. If you're happy with it, that's all that counts. But don't try to sell it, and get your money back out of it. JMO


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## Viper

10-12 years ago I bought a compact 24/7 45 and it performed quite well. So well in fact, that I bought two Millenniums [I think] also in 45. The two new pistols failed over 100 times in the first 200 rounds. I sent them back and they were repaired??? and shipped back to me in about six weeks. Neither was any better and, honestly, I don't think they were touched. I sold all three at a loss with the proper warnings and moved on, vowing never again.

The only silver lining was that I then bought my first Kahr, and after eight of which I still have four, that has been a very rewarding experience.


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## joepolo

Well I quess you can call me a basher, but oh wait I do own one, at least I think so, been in Florida for 2 months, for a little piece of plastic that apparently they can't get. As far as I can tell by all the other bashers out there that do own taurus guns a couple hundred in Florida just waiting to get fixed, some a lot longer then mine. Come on now your going to tell me how good this company is when all CS does is lie and tell you your parts are on back order. It seems to me that it's the newer guns that are having all the problem the very same gun they're using to replace the recalled ones, I see some people here have good luck with there guns thats fine but I see a lot more how are not, seems you guys try to start these threads and you bring all 5 people that say they have no problems with they're guns, how do we know your not lying just to make Taurus look better than it is.


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## Tangof

FWIW, My PT92 and 99, the M66 and M94, Have never given me grief. I would not recommend the newer models to anyone. I think Taurus was in too big a rush to hit the CCW market and quality has suffered.


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## miketx

In 2003 I bought a Taurus Titanium ported snubby .357. I went and bought some corbon +p rounds and found it unmanageable with that load. It hurt to shoot it and the muzzle blast/flash was blinding and deafening. Then about 10 rounds later it quit. I had to pound the cylinder open because a piece of jacket was shaved off and stuck in between the frame and cylinder. I managed to get it out, cleared it and started shooting again, and it did the same thing and I couldn't get it out. Had to send it back to Taurus. They fixed it but would never discuss what the problem may have been. So far, I have been Taurus free.


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## Cannon

I've been very happy with my Taurus PT-111G2 its the first Taurus I've owned and not one issue, I use it as a C.C. gun for less than 240.00 inc. tax its all good.


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## insman1132

Obviously there is something to so may posting about problems. I only own one Taurus, the PT145 Mil Pro which is one of the models that is up for recall at this time. But, from my experience with my gun, every time I have pulled the trigger the gun has faithfully gone, "bang". Based on my personal experience with that gun I would not hesitate to use it for self protection at any time, or as my carry gun.


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## VAMarine

insman1132 said:


> Obviously there is something to so may posting about problems. I only own one Taurus, the PT145 Mil Pro which is one of the models that is up for recall at this time. But, from my experience with my gun, every time I have pulled the trigger the gun has faithfully gone, "bang". Based on my personal experience with that gun I would not hesitate to use it for self protection at any time, or as my carry gun.


Just want to point out that the recall is not for guns failing to go bang, but rather a failure of guns going bang when they aren't supposed to.

Please send your gun in.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## insman1132

VAMarine, yes, you are correct. The problem, I believe, is the gun going off when it is dropped - With or without the safety engaged. And yes, I do plan to return my when all the dust settles. Sadly. But I will and I think everyone who has one should. Actually if you do not return a gun on recall, I think you seriously increase your liability with that gun, at the same time eliminating the Mfg'ers liability. After all the Mfg has tried to get it back to prevent anything bad from happening.


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## DanPop

My 2 cents, I bought a Taurus pt911 in February and after about 1,000 rounds.... Perfect. Taurus has had it's problems but this model is a winner. Some have had broken trigger safety blades and Taurus repairs can take a longer period of time than others but I swear by mine and would trust my life with this gun. At $250 and under its an awesome 9mm.


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## Cannon

The PT-111 G2 is a great value for those on a budget, great gun IMO.


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## 45tex

I have a checkered past with Taurus, and I seem to be a glutton for punishment. Tried to buy a model 85 in .38, the one the salesperson handed me had a bent crane. It bound the cylinder. Left the gun and the store. Bought a PT 1911 when they first came out. They advertised that they came with the extras already added. My extras kept falling off, like the safety. The sights were said to be Novak, they fell off too. Novak said the sights were designed and made by Taurus and licensed by them and they made no parts for them. I gave the gun away and it became a safe queen. Also had the worst finish ever. I should add, it always went bang when it was supposed to. Fell for a PT 22 and it fired 9 rounds before a massive failure. Taurus fixed it and I made a slight profit on it. Traded for 2 Rossi made by Taurus revolvers. One locked up and had to go back. Traded off the other one. The one that went back actually became a good shooter as time went by. But I had more in it than it was worth, finally traded it for a well used 709 slim. That one shot great but my puppies got to it and chewed it up. I cleaned and repaired the damage, but it will never look good. But it went right back to being a great shooter. I decided that maybe Taurus isn't so bad if you let someone else break them in for you. In that light I just traded for a PT 101 from 1991 or '92, not sure yet. All metal, no crappy key lock and no rail. I think I'm gonna like this one. Let you know after the range trip. I have hi hopes because I really like the shorty forties.


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## DanPop

I would challenge anyone to buy a new PT111, for under $250 and it they have one failure or just plain hate the gun I will buy it for 10 bucks over your invoice. You Taurus bathers may have every right to bash Taurus' reputation in the past but not knowing what they are doing now.... Don't judge.


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## Cannon

DanPop, The PT-111 G2 was the #2 best selling pistol in 2015 for several months in 2015 it was the #1 seller

Miami, FL -(AmmoLand.com)- The Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 keeps its top seat in the New Firearms, Semi-Automatic Pistol category on GunBroker.com, per the June 2015 report.

The Taurus Millennium G2 beats out, for a second month in a row, other top firearms brands. "The demand we are seeing for this model is very exciting," said Director of Marketing Tim Brandt. "Consumers are recognizing the reliability of this unbelievably affordable compact semi-auto. We really appreciate the support of the Taurus brand, and the results from Gun Broker in June are evidence that we are delivering on our goal of producing better quality firearms at the right price."

Read more: Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 Maintains #1 Spot on GunBroker.com
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook


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## Shipwreck

I was at Bass Pro Shop on Sat. There were 3 people (mother, fater and son) all looking at handguns. The employee was showing them a Taurus, at their request.

It is the price that sucks newbies in. People with no clue about handguns. 

I had an opportunity to tell 1 of them that I'd advise they look at other guns over a Taurus.


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## Cannon

Well like DanPop stated if your talking about the PT-111 G2 I will tell anyone for the dollar spent there an outstanding value and they have been in the top 5 in terms of U.S. sales for 2015 & I'm guessing they will do the same for 2016. Shipwreck I guess I'm wondering if you have personnel experience with the Taurus PT-111 G2? I have and its been an awesome EDC concealed carry gun that has been without issue. Many feel unless they spend several hundred on a pistol its junk... That's a shame.


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## Shipwreck

Cannon said:


> Well like DanPop stated if your talking about the PT-111 G2 I will tell anyone for the dollar spent there an outstanding value and they have been in the top 5 in terms of U.S. sales for 2015 & I'm guessing they will do the same for 2016. Shipwreck I guess I'm wondering if you have personnel experience with the Taurus PT-111 G2? I have and its been an awesome EDC concealed carry gun that has been without issue. Many feel unless they spend several hundred on a pistol its junk... That's a shame.


Actually, feel free to look at some of the other Taurus threads here on this forum. I realize you are somewhat new, but many of us here are not Taurus fans. And, after explaining it on this forum, and other forums, for years... I am sure you understand that it gets tiring to type the same thing out over and over. All of us here have found that no matter what we say or how we explain it, Taurus fans claim any negative comments make us "haters."

The Taurus fans never change their minds, and the conversations usually go no where. We just give warnings periodically to prevent newbie gun users (who have NO idea about gun companies and which guns are potentially better than others) from being sucked in because of the low price point.


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## Cannon

Shipwreck here is the problem, in the past Taurus has had issues with some models, and the negative bias shown by yourself and others here can't be denied. There's a reason why the PT-111 G2 is among the top 5 in U.S. gun sales and has received positive gun reviews by both the print & online media, and the great price point plus countless satisfied owners say Taurus got this one right. Taurus can't change the past, but every gun manufacturer I know of has had problems with some models. Its my opinion and the opinion of many gun writers & reviewers that Taurus got this one right and hit a home run with the PT-111 G2, its a great CC double stack 9mm... And that's just hard for some people here to accept.


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## Shipwreck

Cannon said:


> Shipwreck here is the problem, in the past Taurus has had issues with some models, and the negative bias shown by yourself and others here can't be denied. There's a reason why the PT-111 G2 is among the top 5 in U.S. gun sales and has received positive gun reviews by both the print & online media, and the great price point plus countless satisfied owners say Taurus got this one right. Taurus can't change the past, but every gun manufacturer I know of has had problems with some models. Its my opinion and the opinion of many gun writers & reviewers that Taurus got this one right and hit a home run with the PT-111 G2, its a great CC double stack 9mm... And that's just hard for some people here to accept.


If that is your opinion, then there is no point in most of the active forum to once again pony out the long list of reasons why we would never buy a Taurus... Even with detailed examples in some cases. Enjoy your Taurus. Me, if I was GIVEN one, I'd sell it immediately. My life is worth more than a Taurus. You can think otherwise for yourself.


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## desertman

Shipwreck said:


> If that is your opinion, then there is no point in most of the active forum to once again pony out the long list of reasons why we would never buy a Taurus... Even with detailed examples in some cases. Enjoy your Taurus. Me, if I was GIVEN one, I'd sell it immediately. *My life is worth more than a Taurus.* You can think otherwise for yourself.


That is reason alone to never buy a Taurus. If they were such great products and such a bargain, you'd think that the nations law enforcement and military agencies would issue them saving the tax payers millions.
Fact is they would never stand up that type of use. I guess they might be okay for someone who wants to buy one throw it in a draw, forget about it and hope they never have to use it. But to regularly practice and put thousand's of rounds through one, I doubt that it would hold up very well. The other major issue is that they must be returned to the factory for repairs as Taurus does not sell replacement parts when their products break.

I do all of my own work on my guns so I've never enlisted the services of a gunsmith. I'm just guessing that there are probably not too many gunsmiths that would be willing to work on them either. Not only because they can't get parts for them but for liability issues should something else go wrong with the gun that was not their doing.

In many cases gun writers and reviewers get paid by the manufacturers to write positive reviews of their products. Many of those reviewers I'm guessing never put thousand's of rounds through the products they are reviewing or subjected them to any type of torture testing.

People are free to buy what they choose. I for one do not have a problem with that. It's their money to spend as they wish. No matter what one's opinions are about Taurus products. The fact still remains that you do get what you pay for. One of the reasons why you will not see too many professional mechanics buying tools from Harbor Freight.


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## Cannon

Shipwreck I think you misunderstand me I acknowledge that Taurus has had issues in the past. And no I don't think your haters if I had a gun that was trouble I would also feel it my right to tell others and to complain, I've done it with other brands in the past. All I'm saying is the PT-111 G2 has been rock solid and that's not just my opinion its the opinion held by gun writers & reviewers that have put the G2 through its paces and found it to be a outstanding value. I guess the real question here is do you own a G2? If not your commenting on a gun you know little about, I get that you may have had a issue with Taurus in the past but key words there are (In the past). Judge this gun on its merits not on what you think but what you know from personal experience.


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## RK3369

Cannon said:


> Judge this gun on its merits not on what you think but what you know from personal experience.


His personal experience with Taurus, in general, tells him that it is a brand that lacks a quality reputation. They may make a great gun in the G2 however, since he doesn't own one, he is commenting based on his brand experience. Wouldn't you classify, for example, a vehicle brand as "bad' without owning one based on JD Powers or Consumer Reports ratings? I believe all he is saying is that the majority of opinions he has seen or heard don't support Taurus as a quality brand. I would have to agree even though I have 2 Taurus revolvers which have been problem free. I also had a PT-22 which broke a firing pin with less than 200 rounds put through it. Not what I would consider a "quality" handgun to have such a problem with so few rounds shot. Everyone has their own opinion of quality. You like Taurus which is obvious, others not so much. Just different strokes for different folks.

Now if I thought that perhaps you were a regular poster over on the Taurus Armed website, I would understand that you are likely just one of the company "plants" that are always bragging up the brand. There are many loyal supporters over there, a few detractors, and the detractors get out shouted over time and eventually give up. Doesn't appear to be a fair and balanced presentation of Taurus as a company, and I have had my problems with their customer service department (or lack thereof, as is should be called).

for my opinion, I would buy a Taurus if it were cheap enough. I would never pay what I would pay for a Smith, Ruger, Colt, etc for any Taurus. Nor would I ever carry one as an EDC. That being said, if you want a cheap gun that "might" be a good range gun, and you are willing to either return it to Taurus for repair, or throw it in the trash, because Shipwreck is correct, you can not get parts for them (believe me, I have tried, doing much of my own gunsmithing also), then by all means, buy a Taurus and enjoy it while it works.


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## desertman

At least from my own personal experience. All of the people that I know who have bought a Taurus (friends and neighbors) were not really that interested in guns to begin with. They only wanted to have a gun for protection and did not want to spend any more than what they had to. It is highly unlikely that they would be willing to spend a thousand dollars or more on ammo in order to not only become proficient with that weapon but to ensure that the weapon will function without any issues. They walked into a gun store found the cheapest gun they could get and along with a box of ammo walked out the door. They get home, load it up and either throw it in a drawer or strap it to their side hoping that they will never have to use it. Usually the guns never end up ever being fired.

Most if not all of the people that I know that are interested in guns spend thousands of dollars just on ammo annually. None of them own a Taurus. To me it is penny wise and pound foolish to be willing to buy a cheaply made gun just to save a few bucks yet spend thousands on ammo to practice with it? If you're going to be willing to spend that kind of money on ammo alone, wouldn't it make sense to spend an extra coupla' hundred dollars and get a decent weapon to begin with? One that will withstand thousand's of rounds and last for a lifetimes worth of service. One that, if the need ever arises your life may depend on.


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## RK3369

I find that, the older I get, the busier with work and life I get, and the less time I have to go to the range. That being said, ammo cost is not really that relevant to me anymore. I want a quality gun as an EDC that I know I can rely on to perform when and if it is necessary. I would not turn to Taurus to make that purchase. Likely it would be a Smith, Ruger, Colt or perhaps Glock. Beyond that, I'm not much interested in anything else. I have had a number of Smiths and Rugers both in semi's and in wheel guns and every one has been quality, problem free and dependable. That pretty much makes the decision for me.


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## desertman

RK3369 said:


> I find that, the older I get, the busier with work and life I get, and the less time I have to go to the range. That being said, ammo cost is not really that relevant to me anymore. I want a quality gun as an EDC that I know I can rely on to perform when and if it is necessary. I would not turn to Taurus to make that purchase. *Likely it would be a Smith, Ruger, Colt or perhaps Glock*. Beyond that, I'm not much interested in anything else. I have had a number of Smiths and Rugers both in semi's and in wheel guns and every one has been quality, problem free and dependable. That pretty much makes the decision for me.


Other than the Colt. For between $100 and $200 you can have a Smith, Ruger or a Glock. All three from a reputable manufacturer and will give a lifetimes worth of service. The choice should be relatively easy.


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## CW

I remember ....1986? there abouts, there were several pistoleros at work who were regularly looking for bargains.

I believe one such "deal" was a lot of Taurus P92's and I'm thinking $99 a piece was the price. With a new daughter on the way, I was not able to join the club but of the dozen or so who made the purchase, none were displeased. Of coarse there was the lone 1911 purist who was kind enough to encourage me to try a .45 before judging it [glad I later took his advice].

But their positive experience would later influence my purchase of a Rossi revolver. To-date the only fail was the rear sight blade broke, [the occasional brass snag on eject is more a matter of practicing correct hold]. The Rossi life-time guarantee became worthless yet the Taurus rep I called was minimally helpful in procuring a Taurus rear sight which fit nicely after some grinding.

The adage, you get what you pay for remains more true than not,

but its also true that persistence at flea markets, auctions, [used gunrack at LGS] can often provide a bargain that turns out better than you expected.


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## Cannon

RK3369, one sentence you wrote tells me all I need to know about you being objective...

They may make a great gun in the G2 however, since he doesn't own one, he is commenting based on his brand experience. Wouldn't you classify, for example, a vehicle brand as "bad' without owning one based on JD Powers or Consumer Reports ratings? 

The only problem is I'm not and have never mentioned the guns they made in past years... Example... So Ford made the Edsel, and GM the Corvair do people bring up the Edsel or Corvair, when looking at new cars? Every tester of the G2 is well aware of the past problems Taurus has had and most every one mentions they had reservations, but after testing the G2 they were impressed with the gun. Judge the G2 on its merits its like telling me because my brother is trouble, then I must be as well. I'll say it again for the money spent there's not a gun made that can compare... Period!! This is my opinion after owning & using the G 2 for over 2yrs and over 2,000 trouble free rounds that the G2 outperforms some guns costing twice as much. I like the G2 its been nothing but reliable. Everyone has an opinion but unless you've owned a G 2 any opinion on the gun IMO is flawed. Have a nice day.


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## win231

Whenever I hear someone say they're considering buying a Taurus firearm, I think about that scene in "Witness." Danny Glover is looking for Harrison Ford to permanently silence him. Ford is hiding on an Amish farm. Glover is wearing a business suit & shiny dress shoes. He climbs over a fence & steps in a big pile of cow poop.

Buying a Taurus is like stepping in a big pile.


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## RK3369

Cannon said:


> Everyone has an opinion but unless you've owned a G 2 any opinion on the gun IMO is flawed. Have a nice day.


sorry have to disagree. You can develop an opinion based on past brand experience. I have owned Chevys fords and Toyotas. Based on past experience, I would turn to Toyota first over any. More reliable, fewer mechanical problems, longer running. I had an uncle who sold Chevys for a living. From the time I was 18 until I was around 35 I bought all my cars from him. Had recalls for bad transmissions, cracked heads, not one of them made it to much more than 100,000 miles without being essentially used up. First Toyota was a 1991Celica coupe. Wife drove that car for 185,000 miles, never even changed the original brakes or exhaust system. Gave it to her brother's kids and they drove another 30,000 miles and finally traded it to some guy for a Toyota pickup. Next Toyota was a 1998 RAV4. Wife drove that to 236,000 miles and had an accident which totaled the car. Only routine maintenance with that one too other than a company transmission recall which was a covered repair. Next Toyota was a 1994 Camry bought used with 31,000 miles. I drove that one to 165,000 and only got rid of it because of a fuel tank leak which the dealer wanted $1200 to repair. Sold it for $400 to a local guy who put a new tank in it and sent his daughter off to college with it. Wife currently is driving a 2003 Lexus with 187,000 miles still going strong. I just bought a used 2015 Tundra with 15,000 miles which I love. So you see, you can develop an opinion based on brand experience.

Not going to argue with you. For you, Taurus is great for the money,your opinion, that's fine. For me Fords and Chevys don't do it for me and haven't for many years. Don't see the quality there based on past experience.


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## desertman

To all of those who love their Taurus products:
You're taking all of this much too personally. You like Taurus products and are perfectly happy with them. That's all that counts. The criticism is not directed at you. It is meant to inform others who may be reading this forum and are considering buying one for the first time. The fact still remains that they are cheaply made firearms and have been problematic for many people that have owned them. A lot more so than with other manufacturers comparable products, particularly those which cost only about $100 more than a brand new Taurus. There is a reason why Taurus' are so cheap either it's metallurgical, machining, poor quality control, lousy customer service, whatever. The company has had more than it's fair share of problems. That is an irrefutable fact. Their products are probably only costing them around $100 to produce and they retail for under $300. Something has to give somewhere in order to sell their products so cheap otherwise they'd never stay in business.


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## desertman

RK3369 said:


> Not going to argue with you. For you, Taurus is great for the money,your opinion, that's fine. For me Fords and Chevys don't do it for me and haven't for many years. Don't see the quality there based on past experience.


Oh shit, you had to get me going on cars. I've worked on them all my life and have never owned a foreign made vehicle. Like a lot of people I could only afford to buy used cars and could not afford to let others fix 'em. Every manufacturer both foreign and domestic has had in some point in time recalls and defects. But for the most part the amount of mileage one gets out of their vehicle all depends on how well it's taken care of.

Go to any car show and you'll see a lot of old American made vehicles still on the road. Admittedly many have been restored. But there are still quite a few that are all original with over 100,000 miles and still in great shape. It's not unusual to see Chevy's, Ford, and Dodge trucks with well over 200,000 miles and still on the road especially the 3/4 and 1 ton versions. Most of the nations public works and utilities companies use American made trucks. Most of the nations law enforcement agencies use American made cars, trucks and SUV's including the border patrol in one of the harshest environments in country. These vehicles are running damn near 24 hrs. a day of which many hours are spent idling and driven by different employees who are not too concerned about the maintenance of those vehicles.

About the best car I'd ever owned was a used '65 Buick Electra that I bought for $500 it had 80,000 miles on it. I never had a bit of trouble with it until one day a branch fell on it and broke the windshield it also needed an alternator and the exhaust system was starting to go. However that was at 140,000 miles. The body and interior was still in good shape but with that many miles I figured it wasn't worth fixing. I gave it to a friend of mine who made the repairs. His mother took it to Texas and put another 100,000 miles on it until she got drunk and wrecked it for good.

First new vehicle? I had a '91 Chevy 2500 3/4 ton with over 120,000 miles other than brakes and an exhaust system I never had any trouble with it. I sold it and bought another new truck again a 2500 3/4 ton in 2001 which is still going strong and still looks like the day I bought it.


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## Shipwreck

win231 said:


> Buying a Taurus is like stepping in a big pile.


We need to quote this and print it on stickers (and hand them out at gun stores)


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## RK3369

desertman said:


> Oh shit, you had to get me going on cars. .


well, at least we agree on Taurus :smt042


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## Recoil1

Cannon said:


> RK3369, one sentence you wrote tells me all I need to know about you being objective...
> 
> They may make a great gun in the G2 however, since he doesn't own one, he is commenting based on his brand experience. Wouldn't you classify, for example, a vehicle brand as "bad' without owning one based on JD Powers or Consumer Reports ratings?
> 
> The only problem is I'm not and have never mentioned the guns they made in past years... Example... So Ford made the Edsel, and GM the Corvair do people bring up the Edsel or Corvair, when looking at new cars? Every tester of the G2 is well aware of the past problems Taurus has had and most every one mentions they had reservations, but after testing the G2 they were impressed with the gun. Judge the G2 on its merits its like telling me because my brother is trouble, then I must be as well. I'll say it again for the money spent there's not a gun made that can compare... Period!! This is my opinion after owning & using the G 2 for over 2yrs and over 2,000 trouble free rounds that the G2 outperforms some guns costing twice as much. I like the G2 its been nothing but reliable. Everyone has an opinion but unless you've owned a G 2 any opinion on the gun IMO is flawed. Have a nice day.


I owned a G2. Trigger safety broke after 250 rounds. Sent it for repairs.....a couple months later I finally got it back. Lost all trust in it as a carry gun and sold it. I know there are a couple others on this forum that had trouble with the wonderful G2. First and last Taurus for me. I to read all the great reviews and fell for the "Taurus has really turned things around with this gun" hype. Wish I had the offer of the plus $10 over my cost buy back before I lost money on it


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## Steve M1911A1

Cannon said:


> ...So Ford made the Edsel, and GM the Corvair do people bring up the Edsel or Corvair, when looking at new cars?...


Um, neither the Edsel nor the Corvair was faulty (no matter what Ralph Nader wrote). Both worked, and worked well, with no built-in, recall-worthy design errors.
The Edsel failed only because of its unusual appearance. The Corvair failed only because Nader lied about it in order to make a name for himself. (If you could safely drive a Volkswagen, you could safely drive a Corvair. I know because I did - both.)
And Ford and Chevrolet both stood behind their cars, and were completely capable of maintaining them, even after the failure of both of them in the marketplace.

But Taurus seems to have made several design and quality-control errors, in the manufacture of both their auto-pistols and their revolvers.
Further, Taurus has not stood behind those of their guns which have failed. Their repair service is dilatory at best.

You are therefore comparing apples to oranges when you reference Edsels and Corvairs to explain Taurus's problems.


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## VAMarine

I've seen enough Taurus problems that I would not buy one. Even if I were on a Taurus budget I'd be looking at other low cost options.

YMMV.

Sent via Tapatalk, and still using real words.


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## desertman

RK3369 said:


> well, at least we agree on Taurus :smt042


I think we agree on a lot of things! Besides I never said there was anything wrong with Japanese vehicles or owning one.


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## desertman

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Um, neither the Edsel nor the Corvair was faulty* (no matter what Ralph Nader wrote). Both worked, and worked well, with no built-in, recall-worthy design errors.
> The Edsel failed only because of its unusual appearance. The Corvair failed only because Nader lied about it in order to make a name for himself. (If you could safely drive a Volkswagen, you could safely drive a Corvair. I know because I did - both.)
> And Ford and Chevrolet both stood behind their cars, and were completely capable of maintaining them, even after the failure of both of them in the marketplace.
> 
> But Taurus seems to have made several design and quality-control errors, in the manufacture of both their auto-pistols and their revolvers.
> Further, Taurus has not stood behind those of their guns which have failed. Their repair service is dilatory at best.
> 
> You are therefore comparing apples to oranges when you reference Edsels and Corvairs to explain Taurus's problems.


You've got that right, Steve! Edsel's now command a high dollar. The Corvair was referred to as the "American Porsche". One of my friends has his original '66 coupe which his mother bought brand new it's still going strong. Another friend is restoring a '62 convertible. I've never owned one, from what I understand they handled great especially in the winter. They were once considered a compact car but compared to today's compacts they are rather large.


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## Shipwreck

VAMarine said:


> I've seen enough Taurus problems that I would not buy one. Even if I were on a Taurus budget I'd be looking at other low cost options.
> 
> YMMV.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk, and still using real words.


Yes - even if you don't want a used gun - M&P Shields are like $386 or so online. Stoeger Cougars in 9mm are $400 or so too


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## Bisley

Honestly, I don't care how good the G2 is. I won't reward a company that has been screwing its customers for decades, by buying one of their products. There is a price to pay for doing business the way this company has, for a very long time. If they want to become a 'top shelf' manufacturing company, they need to change their name and introduce only new products that can be evaluated on their merits. You can only crap in your own nest for so long before people become permanently disgusted.


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## VAMarine

https://thesilicongraybeard.blogspot.com/2016/08/taurus-rumblings.html?m=1



> There are more details but the important point is that there is no fix for this. The owner's choice is either get their gun replaced or take $200 for it; which is probably quite bit less than they paid for it. Should they develop a fix, they'll fix the guns and we'll get our old guns back. I would guess that considering they've been working on this problem for well over a year, if they don't have a fix by now, they probably won't come up with one. There doesn't appear to be any way to know if the cash is faster than the replacement, so it's definitely not "take $200 now, or wait another six months for your gun"


Sent via Tapatalk, and still using real words.


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## hillman

Ah, the Corvair. Aside from an inadequate heater, and turbocharger seal problems (gas fumes in the cabin), a Corvair with properly inflated tires was a fun drive. Buying a Taurus handgun seems to be a chancy proposition.


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## Steve M1911A1

hillman said:


> Ah, the Corvair...a Corvair with properly inflated tires was a fun drive...


Indeed!


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## DanPop

To you Taurus haters, I challenge you to tell me how many PT111's you have owned. I can promise that if you all are honest the answer is none. Given that, how in hell can you put this gun down? I have enough experience with this gun that I would put my life on the line with it. There are lots of people out there in need of a self defense peice at an affordable price and you are doing a disservice by disuadeing them from the PT111. I have owned guns on and off for 40 yrs, I know what the hell I'm talking about. There was a time that Kia and Hyundai cars were junk, they are now on par with Nissan and Toyota, companies change, rebuild and get better. 
I am extremely pissed that you can put down a gun that you are totally ignorant to.


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## Steve M1911A1

DanPop said:


> To you Taurus haters...


Merely having an opinion which differs from yours does not qualify someone as being a "hater."
"Hater" implies bigotry, which, I suggest, you are exhibiting when you classify an entire group of people as "haters" without any direct experience of any of them.

Further, it is possible to know, from the experiences of others, that one would be ill advised to "invest" in a firearm made by a company which has such a large quality-control problem.
It has been proven, over and over again, that buying one of their guns is quite similar to placing a bet on the "pass" line at a craps game.
One need not actually buy one of their guns, to find out whether the bet is a good one or not.

Obviously, you were lucky enough to buy one of the good ones.
I'm sure that I speak for all of us when I say that we are all happy for you, and that we hope that your good luck continues.

I have never owned a Trabant automobile. Nevertheless, I am absolutely certain that, regardless of their low price, I would have been a fool had I ever bought one.
The experiences of other Trabant buyers were enough to convince me. (And nobody ever seems to have gotten a good one.)

Even though the odds were against you, you won the game anyway.
However, that does not imply that all other Taurus buyers will be as lucky as you.
I, for one, would not want to trust my life, and my wife's life, to a mere craps-shoot.


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## desertman

DanPop said:


> To you Taurus haters, I challenge you to tell me how many PT111's you have owned. *I can promise that if you all are honest the answer is none*. Given that, how in hell can you put this gun down? I have enough experience with this gun that I would put my life on the line with it. There are lots of people out there in need of a self defense peice at an affordable price and you are doing a disservice by disuadeing them from the PT111. I have owned guns on and off for 40 yrs, I know what the hell I'm talking about. There was a time that Kia and Hyundai cars were junk, they are now on par with Nissan and Toyota, companies change, rebuild and get better.
> *I am extremely pissed that you can put down a gun that you are totally ignorant to.*


You are absolutely correct. NONE! And for good reason. Honest enough for you? So, you're *extremely pissed* that others don't share your enthusiasm for an inferior product? There's a lot of things that piss me off too, but that sure as hell isn't one of them, not even close. I'd hate to see what would happen if someone were to cut you off in traffic or look at you the wrong way? You might want to reconsider whether owning any type of weapon is a wise decision.


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## desertman

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Merely having an opinion which differs from yours does not qualify someone as being a "hater."
> "Hater" implies bigotry, which, I suggest, you are exhibiting when you classify an entire group of people as "haters" without any direct experience of any of them.
> 
> Further, it is possible to know, from the experiences of others, that one would be ill advised to "invest" in a firearm made by a company which has such a large quality-control problem.
> It has been proven, over and over again, that buying one of their guns is quite similar to placing a bet on the "pass" line at a craps game.
> One need not actually buy one of their guns, to find out whether the bet is a good one or not.
> 
> Obviously, you were lucky enough to buy one of the good ones.
> I'm sure that I speak for all of us when I say that we are all happy for you, and that we hope that your good luck continues.
> 
> I have never owned a Trabant automobile. Nevertheless, I am absolutely certain that, regardless of their low price, I would have been a fool had I ever bought one.
> The experiences of other Trabant buyers were enough to convince me. (And nobody ever seems to have gotten a good one.)
> 
> Even though the odds were against you, you won the game anyway.
> However, that does not imply that all other Taurus buyers will be as lucky as you.
> I, for one, would not want to trust my life, and my wife's life, to a mere craps-shoot.


I was gonna' add to my comments, but you said it for me. Well done "Steve"!


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## DanPop

Answer one question, how can you judge something you know NOTHING about? You may know what you have read about the older Taurus' but find a PT111 owner who can put it down. Your heads are up your asses and apparently your sphincter is to tight to get it out. 
Buy a PT111, put 1,000 rounds through it, if you have one single failure with it I will buy it from you for $300.


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## DanPop

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Merely having an opinion which differs from yours does not qualify someone as being a "hater."


How can you have an fair opinion of anything you have no experience with? Answer honestly.


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## Goldwing

DanPop said:


> How can you have an fair opinion of anything you have no experience with? Answer honestly.


I've never aimed my Glock at a Jihadist, my opinion is I would like it more than with a Taurus!

GW


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## RK3369

DanPop said:


> Answer one question, how can you judge something you know NOTHING about? You may know what you have read about the older Taurus' but find a PT111 owner who can put it down. Your heads are up your asses and apparently your sphincter is to tight to get it out.
> Buy a PT111, put 1,000 rounds through it, if you have one single failure with it I will buy it from you for $300.


100,000 owners can't be wrong. Taurus Agrees To $39 Million Settlement In Defective Pistol Case - Grand View Outdoors

...and we're supposed to believe that the next generation of this gun is so much better????

I think you could find a few disbelievers around. Kinda like believing that Hillary does not want to take our guns, right?

Also, please read this thread. Problems with a Pt111 G2

handgunforum.net/taurus/65201-range-today-feel-horrible


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## Steve M1911A1

DanPop said:


> How can you have an fair opinion of anything you have no experience with? Answer honestly.


Go back and re-read my post.
It is not necessary to have direct personal experience, in order to know that one doesn't want to experience something.

I have never dated a psychotic woman, but I am absolutely certain that I would never want to.
I have never tasted fecal material, but, the testimony of millions of flies to the contrary, I am absolutely certain that I would never want to.
I have never ridden an excited Brahma bull, but I am absolutely certain that I would never want to.

Need I continue?


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## Shipwreck

DanPop said:


> Your heads are up your asses and apparently your sphincter is to tight to get it out.


Ok, that's enough!

I VERY much hate being on other forums when threads are locked for what I consider no reason sometimes. But this is out of hand. *This is your one and only warning - and I expect you to apologize to everyone on this thread - or you are gone. * And, I will be checking back later....

THIS is why most of us don't waste our time with these threads. As someone just pointed out above my post - if someone disagrees with a Taurus fan, that makes them a "hater" - to the Taurus fan.

Now, I am a Beretta nut. Tons of people don't like Berettas. When someone gives me crap at the range, I just smile and keep shooting. I don't care what you think. I've owned like 29 Beretta 92 variants over 20+ years (and like 36 Berettas of various types in total). And, I also won't say publicly how many guns I have owned in my life, but it is a lot. I've owned almost everything at one time or another. Therefore, I am very knowledgeable about handguns. If someone gives me crap about my Beretta 92 and won't listen to why I like it and just dismisses it... I just move on. I suspect that I likely know more about the topic than they do... But, I DO NOT say what you just said... I also don't go to every Beretta thread and argue with people who don't like Berettas. It doesn't matter to me.

I'm not saying this to toot my own horn - but to make a point...

As I stated in a previous post a week or two ago on the matter - there is no point in explaining actual facts to a Taurus fan, as it always gets us labeled as "haters." If you like the gun, like the gun. Go buy a bunch of them. That's fine... No one has said you can't. You heard our comments and you disagree. That's fine... Move on... But DON'T tell us:



> Your heads are up your asses


There is no call for that. You just want to hear how fantastic a Taurus is, or you will not be happy. Well, it's not going to happen. Move on...

I think you'd be happier at the Taurus Forum website, more so than here....


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## joepolo

Well I did own a G2 and shortly after it broke . I will be honest when I first got it I was almost impressed it shoot ok for a cheap gun but it didn't last long before it was back to get fixed for over 3 months. Then I got it back and I was less impressed I truly forgot how bad the trigger really was, yes you could learn to shoot it good, but why when you could buy a quality gun and not need to learn how to shoot it, they seem to shoot themselves good. I've had a xdm mod 2 for a while and the M&P 40 full size, neither one did I have to learn how to shoot it to be good. I sold my G2 and picked up a M&P shield and I'll tell you this no way is the G2 even close to the quality and accuracy of the S&W. If you want you could call me a hater cause I will not change my opinion on Taurus, it's a cheap non quality firearm, if you choose to risk your life to it that is your option all I could say is good luck.


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## RK3369

I have been over at the Taurus Armed site a couple years back. I came away with the opinion that a lot of the strong supporters on there talking about how much their customer service had improved, yada, yada, yada, over the past edition, well eventually, based on my own experience with their CS, I figured they had to be a lot of company plants on the website. Just couldn't believe how so many folks could be talking up the company and the CS so much when my own experience was so contrary to what they were claiming. Taurus lovers are Taurus lovers, plain and simple. Can't change their minds regardless of how many problems happen with their guns. Just let them go their happy way and believe that what they carry is going to protect them all the time. 

Kinda like what I said before about believing anything that Hillary says. She can not open her mouth without lying. But then those that love her claim that the rest of us are just "haters". Well, elect her then see how much you love her.


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## desertman

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Go back and re-read my post.
> It is not necessary to have direct personal experience, in order to know that one doesn't want to experience something.
> 
> I have never dated a psychotic woman, but I am absolutely certain that I would never want to.
> *I have never tasted fecal material, but, the testimony of millions of flies to the contrary, I am absolutely certain that I would never want to.*
> I have never ridden an excited Brahma bull, but I am absolutely certain that I would never want to.
> 
> Need I continue?


That's freakin' great "Steve"! Damn, I wish I'd thought of that.


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## win231

DanPop said:


> To you Taurus haters, I challenge you to tell me how many PT111's you have owned. I can promise that if you all are honest the answer is none. Given that, how in hell can you put this gun down? I have enough experience with this gun that I would put my life on the line with it. There are lots of people out there in need of a self defense peice at an affordable price and you are doing a disservice by disuadeing them from the PT111. I have owned guns on and off for 40 yrs, I know what the hell I'm talking about. There was a time that Kia and Hyundai cars were junk, they are now on par with Nissan and Toyota, companies change, rebuild and get better.
> I am extremely pissed that you can put down a gun that you are totally ignorant to.


You're correct about one thing, but it requires an update. The old Kia's & Hyundai's were junk _when they first came out_. The difference is (unlike Taurus) they've constantly improved until they're up to the quality level of cars from Japan. Taurus firearms started out _bad _& got _worse_. And their customer service did the same.


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## desertman

Shipwreck said:


> Ok, that's enough!
> 
> I VERY much hate being on other forums when threads are locked for what I consider no reason sometimes. But this is out of hand. *This is your one and only warning - and I expect you to apologize to everyone on this thread - or you are gone. * And, I will be checking back later....
> 
> THIS is why most of us don't waste our time with these threads. As someone just pointed out above my post - *if someone disagrees with a Taurus fan, that makes them a "hater*" - to the Taurus fan.
> 
> Now, I am a Beretta nut. Tons of people don't like Berettas. When someone gives me crap at the range, I just smile and keep shooting. I don't care what you think. I've owned like 29 Beretta 92 variants over 20+ years (and like 36 Berettas of various types in total). And, I also won't say publicly how many guns I have owned in my life, but it is a lot. I've owned almost everything at one time or another. Therefore, I am very knowledgeable about handguns. If someone gives me crap about my Beretta 92 and won't listen to why I like it and just dismisses it... I just move on. I suspect that I likely know more about the topic than they do... But, I DO NOT say what you just said... I also don't go to every Beretta thread and argue with people who don't like Berettas. It doesn't matter to me.
> 
> I'm not saying this to toot my own horn - but to make a point...
> 
> As I stated in a previous post a week or two ago on the matter - there is no point in explaining actual facts to a Taurus fan, as it always gets us labeled as "haters." If you like the gun, like the gun. Go buy a bunch of them. That's fine... No one has said you can't. You heard our comments and you disagree. That's fine... Move on... But DON'T tell us:
> 
> There is no call for that. You just want to hear how fantastic a Taurus is, or you will not be happy. Well, it's not going to happen. Move on...
> 
> I think you'd be happier at the Taurus Forum website, more so than here....


It's the same way when one disagrees with a Democrat. Or are opposed to the illegal invasion and Balkanization of this once great nation. That almost always qualifies you as a racist, a hater and a bigot. It really doesn't matter to me what race or nationality someone is. If they've entered this country illegally they just do not belong here period. Sorry if that statement is a little off topic, but the principle is the same.

With regard to guns or any other product for that matter: If a product is an inferior product and the manufacturer has a bad reputation there will always be an inordinate amount of complaints regarding it. Such as the case with Taurus, it is what it is. That is reason enough to avoid buying one and recommend that others do the same. Especially those who are buying a gun for the first time. Obviously there will be some that are more than happy with them but there are far too many that aren't. At least with a forum such as this, one is more than likely to get for the most part unbiased opinions from a variety of contributors. If complaints are overwhelmingly against any one given product chances are that the product is unacceptable for it's intended purpose.

I tried as did most others to explain why I would never own or recommend Taurus products in a factual way which was not meant to offend others. Too bad this individual did not take it that way. So be it. I never thought that someone could take it so personally.

Sure everyone has their favorite make of firearm. Maybe there are tons of people that don't like Berretta's for whatever reason. However no can say that they do not make a quality firearm. After all the U.S. military has chosen it as their official sidearm. Most of the nations police agencies have chosen the Glock. The same can not be said of Taurus products. There's got to be a reason why?


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## RK3369

desertman said:


> After all the U.S. military has chosen it (Beretta) as their official sidearm. Most of the nations police agencies have chosen the Glock. The same can not be said of Taurus products. There's got to be a reason why?


Enough proof of lack of Taurus quality? And the US military requests bids from all legitimate suppliers. Somewhere in the evaluation process, Taurus' just did not make the cut.


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## Bisley

I am 65 years old and Taurus guns have been unreliable for all of my adult life. I'm not mad about it, because they have found their market niche, just like Ronco did with their cheap kitchen tools that worked three times before going on the scrap heap. That doesn't mean I will ever buy one, or recommend that anyone else buy one, and it is a source of great amusement to me to see that people will defend them with such vitriol - it helps me to understand why Democrats keep getting getting elected, despite having been egregiously wrong about everything since the 1960's, at least.


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## Recoil1

DanPop said:


> Answer one question, how can you judge something you know NOTHING about? You may know what you have read about the older Taurus' but find a PT111 owner who can put it down. Your heads are up your asses and apparently your sphincter is to tight to get it out.
> Buy a PT111, put 1,000 rounds through it, if you have one single failure with it I will buy it from you for $300.


I wish you had made that offer earlier in the year. I had a G2, so yes I have experience with it, the trigger safety broke around 250 rounds. Sent it to get fixed and it took 3 months. When they returned it they sent it to my house which I knew they would do, but they sent it without any notification and since it required an adult signature it sure would have been nice to know it was coming. Very poor CS anyway you look at it. Taurus would never admit if there was a problem with the safety so I deemed it unacceptable as a carry gun and sold it. Wish I could have sold it to you instead of losing money on it cuz no one wants a Taurus around where I live. Yes, I believed all the "Taurus got this one right " hype. Won't happen again!


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## Shipwreck

Ok, DanPop. I saw you here on the forum for a while around 9am this morning, and again around 2pm. No apology yet - you are gone.


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## Livingthedream

Boy loved reading this thread!!!! How in the world did I miss it?? First off I have owned 3 Taurus handguns first was ptmillpro which I sent back to Taurus because I did not want to take the chance that I might shoot my foot off.Told I would have to wait 6 to 8 months for replacement G2. Decided to purchase a new G2 while waiting and after 500 round had a trigger safety break sent that in for repair told 3 to 4 months for repair to be completed. Got repaired G2 back first sold it . Then received new replacement G2 sold it. Dealing with Taurus has been a nightmare. Life is too short to spend so much time dealing with such a incompenent company. To many negatives with Taurus in general.
And by the way the new replacement I sold was regrettably sold to a friend and after about 500 rounds is having trouble with failures to eject.
Do not try and tell me that Taurus makes a good reliable gun and that they have good customer service and quality control !!!!
And to all the Taurus lovers I did own them and use them.


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## Cannon

Glad you were able to finally move on, for me as a owner who's been happy with the Taurus G2 for over 2yrs and had well over 2,000 rds through it without a single issue. The value of finding a low cost double stack CC gun and the fact that last year the G2 was in the top 5 sales in the U.S. of compact handguns tells me your experience with the G2 was not typical. Good luck with your new gun, hope your as happy with it as I am with my Taurus PT-111 G2.


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## RK3369

Cannon said:


> Glad you were able to finally move on, for me as a owner who's been happy with the Taurus G2 for over 2yrs and had well over 2,000 rds through it without a single issue. The value of finding a low cost double stack CC gun and the fact that last year the G2 was in the top 5 sales in the U.S. of compact handguns tells me your experience with the G2 was not typical. Good luck with your new gun, hope your as happy with it as I am with my Taurus PT-111 G2.


Company plant:smt018


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## Cannon

I'm just a guy who's happy with the G2, hey there are more of them than you think out there.


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## popst

Fun read.

Haven't (before Dec 2015) owned a gun in forty years, that was a Marlin XT 22 rifle with scope. Got it at Kmart!

Got a G2 (first hand gun) Dec 2015. Taurus forum was first forum I joined. They didn't have forums for guns 40 years ago.

Don't know IF Taurus repair service is any good OR not, haven't needed the service.

IF the LGS had a Makarov I would have got it, instead of the G2, because of the all-steel construction.


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## Shipwreck

Cannon said:


> ...tells me your experience with the G2 was not typical.


I am not sure how you can say that...That guy, and many others, JUST ON THIS FORUM, have posted on thread after thread of the exact same malfunctions on their G2. Heck, the only Taurus threads I even read anymore are on THIS forum, and I can't tell you how many times I have read about the same exact part breakages on the exact same gun model.

Obviously, something is wrong. But no, it is the greatest gun in the world. We are mistaken, right?


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## Cannon

Shipwreck, The part your talking about trigger safety was redesigned and the part was replaced on those guns that were affected. Again the Taurus PT-111 G2 was among the top 5 selling compact pistols in the U.S. in 2015.

Miami, FL -(AmmoLand.com)- The Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 keeps its top seat in the New Firearms, Semi-Automatic Pistol category on GunBroker.com, per the June 2015 report.

The Taurus Millennium G2 beats out, for a second month in a row, other top firearms brands. "The demand we are seeing for this model is very exciting," said Director of Marketing Tim Brandt. "Consumers are recognizing the reliability of this unbelievably affordable compact semi-auto. We really appreciate the support of the Taurus brand, and the results from Gun Broker in June are evidence that we are delivering on our goal of producing better quality firearms at the right price."

Read more: Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 Maintains #1 Spot on GunBroker.com
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

As I said before the G2 has been a great pistol for me.


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## Shipwreck

I guess I'm just going to be quiet from now on. The Taurus fans just don't get it.... They are in a different dimension....























Oh, wait.. All this positive Taurus talk has just made me change my mind. I did a 180!!!

Man, the Taurus guns are just so super, super fantastic. Damn, why didn't I see this before. What was I thinking? I think I'm going to go sell my plethora of Berettas and HKs, and even my SCAR... I'm going to take all that cash, and go buy 24 of these $1.50 guns. What was I thinking? How could I have been so blind all this time.


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## Cannon

Shipwreck, look I understand you don't like Taurus and that's ok with me. I don't like some brands either. And I never expected you to change your mind, just realize that for many the Taurus PT-111 G2 was there first experience with Taurus, I and many others have been quite impressed with the performance and reliability of the G2. My opinion is different than yours and we just disagree, but that's ok life would be dull if we all agreed wouldn't it?


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## CW

Don't worry Shipwreck, they probably all had parents that bought Pintos, K-cars, and Vegas.

I remember our Dodge Aires that went to the garage for a clanking sound - an un-needed broken air pump for the emissions system.

So how many times has this carb been rebuilt? he asked.

None. said I

Amazed, he continued, You realize there is no compression on the 4th cylinder?

No. said I

Noticing my $10 Rustoleum paint job on the hood and roof [original paint washed off], he asked, Why did you ever buy this car?

It had air-conditioning, 40k miles, and was dirt cheep from wife's grandmother who could no longer drive.
And it still runs pretty good. I replied

Can't argue with that. he said

If it works for you, it's likely one of the best things ever.

Had I seen Red Green earlier, I would have made a Zamboni out of it too.


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## popst

Shipwreck, one SM to another SM.

Put the fires out, don't add fuel.


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## denner

popst said:


> Shipwreck, one SM to another SM.
> 
> Put the fires out, don't add fuel.


I dont see it as adding fuel, just expressing an opinion. If none of us had an opinion(including moderators) or added input it would be a very boring and probably uninformative forum.


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## Livingthedream

Cannon said:


> Shipwreck, The part your talking about trigger safety was redesigned and the part was replaced on those guns that were affected. Again the Taurus PT-111 G2 was among the top 5 selling compact pistols in the U.S. in 2015.
> 
> Miami, FL -(AmmoLand.com)- The Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 keeps its top seat in the New Firearms, Semi-Automatic Pistol category on GunBroker.com, per the June 2015 report.
> 
> The Taurus Millennium G2 beats out, for a second month in a row, other top firearms brands. "The demand we are seeing for this model is very exciting," said Director of Marketing Tim Brandt. "Consumers are recognizing the reliability of this unbelievably affordable compact semi-auto. We really appreciate the support of the Taurus brand, and the results from Gun Broker in June are evidence that we are delivering on our goal of producing better quality firearms at the right price."
> 
> Read more: Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 Maintains #1 Spot on GunBroker.com
> Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
> Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
> 
> As I said before the G2 has been a great pistol for me.


Fyi Both of my G2's had deferent problems. You wish to speak of your one G2.s good fortunes that is great but I have personally witnessed 2 problems with the G2's I have read and are still reading about issues with FTF and FTE, light strikes, slide release issue, Verry loose magazines and magazines that will not drop free . I could go on and on but have a feeling it will not make a difference because of your one functional G2.


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## Livingthedream

RK3369 said:


> Company plant:smt018


I believe you are correct.


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## Livingthedream

Cannon said:


> I'm just a guy who's happy with the G2, hey there are more of them than you think out there.


The friend that I sold my new replacement G2 to is having problems with failures to eject and he asked me if you would like to trade up your perfect G2 and I quote for his piece of shit.


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## Recoil1

Livingthedream said:


> The friend that I sold my new replacement G2 to is having problems with failures to eject and he asked me if you would like to trade up your perfect G2 and I quote for his piece of shit.


Get ahold of Danpop, he will buy it for $300


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## CW

Just remember it could be worse..... yea I bought a Sig Mosquito....... :horsepoo:


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## VAMarine

Cannon, I doubt that Taurus is the hot seller you make it out to be when you look at the big picture.

Looking at the 2014 numbers, it looks like they made roughly 84,000 pistols (not including revolvers) Ruger made roughly 700,000.

Http://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics

It will be interesting to see the numbers for 2015 and 2016.

Sent via Tapatalk, and still using real words.


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## VAMarine

What happens on other forums has no business here and thats all I'm going to say about that.



Sent via Tapatalk, and still using real words.


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## Counsel709

I do have to point out that this analogy of using the government and their buying habits is not a good one. I was in the military (army) and then worked For a state agency in Pennsylvania for 22 years until i retired. One of the most consistent things i have seen from both the state and federal governments in their buying practices are that they go for what they can get for the lowest price given the parameters that they have been given. That is the part we all saw, what we did not see behind the scenes was the back room deals and the money that changed hands to guarantee that the contract was going to a specific vendor. So attempting to use the government and their willingness to buy or not buy a specific gun is not accurate for this discussion.


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## VAMarine

Counsel709 said:


> I do have to point out that this analogy of using the government and their buying habits is not a good one. I was in the military (army) and then worked For a state agency in Pennsylvania for 22 years until i retired. One of the most consistent things i have seen from both the state and federal governments in their buying practices are that they go for what they can get for the lowest price given the parameters that they have been given. That is the part we all saw, what we did not see behind the scenes was the back room deals and the money that changed hands to guarantee that the contract was going to a specific vendor. So attempting to use the government and their willingness to buy or not buy a specific gun is not accurate for this discussion.


There are some pretty good T&E protocols attached to RFPs from time.to time, it depends on the agency in question. As a whole, I agree that "X agency uses B equipment, therefore it is good" is flawed, but when you look at outfits that have thr option to select equipment as desired, or agencies that run a well thought out test and evaluate protocol we can get a picture of what works better.

As I recall the ATF did a pretty good test process before adopting the Glock...

Sent via Tapatalk, and still using real words.


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