# Wiley Clapp "The .40 Is a Better Choice Than the 9 mm"



## Backlighting (Jul 2, 2012)

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...guns-the-40-is-a-better-choice-than-the-9-mm/


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

I would more disagree with Clapp and agree with some of the comments there. With modern bullets, I think the external ballistics of 9mm is just a hair away from .40 cal and I'd rather have the capacity to put more holes in the bad guy. That's not to mention the 9mm being cheaper and easier to train up to speed with. 

Also, when the SHTF 9mm should be easier to find. You'd probably want to stockpile from something like this list: .22, 9mm, 45 ACP, 223/5.56 Nato, 7.62x39, and 12 guage. Maybe also 38 Special/357 and 308/762x51 Nato. I have all those covered first. Today, I'd much rather use my nice Ruger M77 270 rifle (just sighted it in today) on deer rather than my M1A in 308, but during hard times and the long haul, that M1A will be indispensable in comparison. 

Take care,

Craig


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Actually, at least in recent times, .40cal was much easier to find, coupled with the fact .40cal in general has more energy, can shoot a heavier projectile, and leaves bigger holes with excellent street credentials. Capacity is not too far behind 9mm, generally 2 rounds.

I don't know about being better, but the .40cal in my mind is an excellent cartridge and is here to stay.


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## Backlighting (Jul 2, 2012)

Unable to decide which is better, I'll go with the caliber that IS indisputably better...the .45ACP


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Among the Hi Point carbines, the .40 has the best available ballistics. Sighted in at 50 yards it's 'point blank from 10 feet to over 100 yards.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

One man's opinion....

Coke or Pepsi....

Ford or Chevy...

Trump or Clinton......


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

denner said:


> I don't know about being better, but the .40cal in my mind is an excellent cartridge and is here to stay.





hillman said:


> Among the Hi Point carbines, the .40 has the best available ballistics. Sighted in at 50 yards it's 'point blank from 10 feet to over 100 yards.


Nothing at all wrong with the .40 S&W round. I like it fine. It just would not be my choice on several levels. If I want and feel I need .40 caliber or .35 caliber, I'd go with the superb 10mm Auto. Now for that less capacity magazine I have a serious improvement over the 9mm or 40.

With smaller single stack carry guns, the difference between 9mm and 40 is often like 8 rounds verses 7 rounds, and I want that 8th round. The 9mm is somewhat more controllable for older or weaker shooters in these smaller handguns. If I'm stronger, again, the 10mm.

Also, as I mentioned, the 40 just hasn't been around long enough for my SHTF list. I want military calibers or police which have been in heavy use for well over fifty years, maybe closer to 100 years and by many countries. This better insures availability long term into an insecure future. 10 Auto fails here as well. 9mm, 45 ACP and 38 Special/357 work here on that list. If there are no bad times coming, then I'm all for 40 for a lot of people. It's a great round for many.

Finally, and this is just me a pure unfair bias. I feel the 40 S&W almost ruined the chances for one of my favorite rounds, the 10mm auto. Back during the Miami shootout, the FBI got their collective butts kicked. They used the scapegoat of the 9mm, claiming the bad guys outgunned them. The truth is it was poor training and poor tactics. They often still trained, one hand on the gun crouch with the other on your knee. I remember a police academy training officer explaining to me it was so that if you got hit, you'd fall forward and still be able to return fire. What a joke and dangerous to train.

Anyway, the FBI demanded a more powerful cartridge and S&W came up with an upsized Model 39 based partially on the Browning Hi-Power and the CZ design. It was chambered in the 10mm Auto which was designed by Jeff Cooper for his Bren Ten. It was great and is still used today by some of the FBI tactical teams but the desk chair agents just couldn't seem to qualify with it. S&W punked down the charge and they could finally qualify. With that punked down charge, S&W saw an opportunity and cut down the brass slightly, inventing the 40 S&W we have today. The FBI bought it along with the Model 39, if I remember correctly. Today, with modern bullets and better training, I think they've pretty much decided to go back to 9mm.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/6/30/keefe-report-fbi-selects-new-service-pistol/

So again, nothing wrong with 40 caliber. I like it just fine. I just choose to shoot 9mm and 45 ACP mostly for long term defense, with a 10mm and 44 mag for hunting. For those who choose 40, there are obvious advantages they can cite and it will also do them just fine.

Take care,

Craig


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Which is best? Both. And neither.

I think we can mostly all agree that handgun calibers are relatively ineffective against physiologically stopping a determined attacker unless an upper central nervous system hit is scored. Even hits to the thoracic great vessels and heart may not be immediately incapacitating. Sometimes a non-lethal hit can be incapacitating, such as a hit to the head that does not penetrate the skull but renders the attacker unconscious, a hit to the attacker's dominant arm that strikes bone or major nerves, and it seems that hits to the kneecap are often pretty good at knocking an attacker out of the fight, at least long enough to put several more projectiles into him.

What data there is tends to show that with handguns, multiple shots are generally going to be needed for physiological stops. With these "factoids" as a given, it becomes clear that accuracy in shot placement and accuracy and speed of follow-up shots is often going to make a big difference.

I personally believe that there will be a small, probably very small percentage of shootings in which given identical shot placement and penetration, the larger projectile (after expansion) is going to make a difference since it will be slightly more likely to damage a critical structure, and it will have a larger permanent wound channel. I do not believe that any such difference will ever be demonstrated in real-life shooting data, since it is absolutely impossible to control all the variables other than projectile diameter and depth of penetration, such as shot placement, bullet track, attacker size and physiological state, etc.

I like 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. I am also gaining some familiarity with 357 SIG although I am yet to be convinced it offers sufficient advantage (if any) over .40 S&W to justify its greater cost, noise, and muzzle blast. For myself, when I first shot .40 S&W I did not care for it and didn't shoot it particularly well. I did find it "snappy" and more difficult to control than either 9mm Luger or .45 ACP. But I stuck with it, became very familiar with it, and it is now my favorite caliber in mid-sized pistols like the SIG P229. I have somewhat large hands and all of my pistols except a model 1911 A1 have double stack magazines, so the magazine capacity limitation is not much of an issue in a pistol of that size. I favor .45 ACP in full-size pistols which are my choice for home defense. And in subcompact pistols, I think 9mm is a logical choice given the greater magazine capacity and easier recoil management in a smaller pistol.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Not sure if it's still true or not, but for the longest time, the .357 Mag. was thought of as the best self-defense caliber, insuring the most one shot stops.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

All calibers have a use, I am the first to admit I am old school. I have my reliables that I know will do the job I need. .22, .357, .45 acp for pistols, .22, 7.62z51, 45-70 for rifles and 12ga. for shotgun. I have many others that I have collected over the years that are capable but to me not tried and true.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I am not a 40 fan. I prefer 9mm, but would choose 45 ACP over 40, personally.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Not that long ago, there was a pastor that was shot 7 times by a deranged person. This happened in Idaho.

The caliber in question was a .45 acp. Yup, shot 7 times with a .45 acp.

I'll see if I can find the article.

Here it is: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/03/idaho_pastor_shot_outside_chur.html


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

GOD was with him


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Yep


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I think Wiley is just trying to boost sagging .40 S&W sales. I've noticed that lately all of the really good deals on self-defense type pistols are for those chambered for .40 S&W. Now that there is plenty of 147 grain 9mm ammo that expands well from a short-barreled 9mm, police departments seem to be trending back towards 9mm, and I think civilian sales are, too.

I agree that .40 S&W is a good round for anyone who knows how to grip a semi-auto. I just think if a person already has a .45, the 9mm makes more sense, as a secondary preference. I own one .40 and it is OK - just not one of my favorites.


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