# Safety



## 813Cholo (Jan 19, 2011)

Ive seen alot of guns that I was interested in until I realized they didnt have a manual safety. how do you keep yourself safe without a safety, what is to keep it from going off in your waistband? I was thinking just dont keep one in the chamber but then how do you quickly react in a life or death situation?


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

All modern guns have safeties. They just aren't "external" safeties. There are several in most pistols. Firing pin safeties, integrated trigger safeties, transfer bars, drop safeties and so on. Just because you can't see them, or don't need to physically disengage them doesn't mean they are not there.

The only way a modern pistol will discharge is with the deliberate action of pulling the trigger.(barring system malfunction, which is really low probability in a quality firearm)


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Some double-action-only (DAO) pistols rely for safety only upon the length and "weight" of the DAO trigger-pull. There may be no other safety mechanism.
This "safety" can be just as safe as a single-action (SA) gun's safety lever. In fact, in some cases the long, heavy DAO trigger-pull can be more safe than a SA gun with a safety lever: sometimes the safety lever can be accidentally brushed into the "off" position by clothing or by pressing one's body against something (or someone).
In the end, there is only one safety mechanism upon which you can rely anyway: the one built-into your head, directly between your ears. If that isn't functioning, no safety lever or long, heavy trigger-pull will prevent an unintended discharge.
(BTW: There are no "accidental" discharges. There are only negligent discharges. All unintended discharges are caused by brain malfunctions.)


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

As someone else on here once said, "keep your booger hook off the bangswitch".:mrgreen:


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

813Cholo said:


> Ive seen alot of guns that I was interested in until I realized they didnt have a manual safety.


This is a common worry among beginning handgun shooters, even the ones who have experience with long guns.

It just takes a little bit of instruction from a knowledgeable gun person, and a good deal of actual gun handling to overcome it. And regarding what a knowledgeable gun person is, that does not simply mean a guy who shoots a particular gun well. His knowledge must also extend to all the different types of handguns.

Once you have done a few hundred repetitions, where you draw your gun with your trigger finger extended along the frame, completely away from the trigger guard, and also re-holster it in a similar fashion, you will start to understand that your good safety habits will go further to keep everyone safe than all the gadgets that the manufacturers have to put on guns, to please their lawyers.

If you strictly adhere to the cardinal rules, you won't hurt yourself, or anybody else, even if you are that one unlucky guy, out of many thousands, who actually gets a defective gun.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

813Cholo said:


> ... what is to keep it from going off in your waistband?


Use a holster and that won't be a concern. I don't know anyone that carries without a holster of some kind.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

If you intend to carry without a holster, by all means restrict yourself to guns with "safeties" on them. As stated above, a proper holster and good technique are more important to actual safety than any gadget on the gun.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Couch Potato said:


> If you intend to carry without a holster, by all means restrict yourself to guns with "safeties" on them...


I strongly disagree.
In fact, it's quite the opposite.
Friction against a pocket will very frequently wipe a safety lever into the "off" position, making the gun unsafe and putting the carrier at risk of a serious leg wound.
A long, hard, DAO trigger-pull cannot be actuated by merely rubbing against the inside of a pocket. _As long as there is nothing else in the pocket,_ the DAO pistol is safer than one with a safety.

However, I must add:
*Never, never, never carry a pistol unless it's in a holster*, or has some sort of attachment clip like the Clipdraw. The reason? Because the gun has to remain in the exact same position all of the time, ready for establishing a firing grip and then making a presentation. A gun carried loose in the pocket will rotate into a different position than you need, and a pistol merely tucked into a waistband will invariably fall down into your pants.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

Though I think it possible to do so, I won't argue your point about the safety of safeties Steve. It is not worth the effort because I 100% agree with your point about always using a holster to carry.


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## 813Cholo (Jan 19, 2011)

I intend on carrying with a holster at all times but I just think I would feel more comfortable if I had a safety


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

813Cholo said:


> I intend on carrying with a holster at all times but I just think I would feel more comfortable if I had a safety


From personal experience, I suggest that you check the position of that safety lever occasionally, through the course of your day. You may find yourself occasionally quite surprised by what you find.
The best way, in a public place, is to step into a toilet stall for a moment.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

813Cholo said:


> I intend on carrying with a holster at all times but I just think I would feel more comfortable if I had a safety


You should spend some time with guns before you start to carry.

As has been said, if you or soemone else does not pull the trigger the gun doesn't go off.

Put a gun in a holster that covers the trigger and be careful.

If you feel uncomfortable without a saftey there are many guns out there with saftties get one of them.

RCG


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

813Cholo said:


> how do you keep yourself safe without a safety





813Cholo said:


> I just think I would feel more comfortable if I had a safety





recoilguy said:


> You should spend some time with guns before you start to carry.


If your mind is already made up then quit wasting our time, do yourself and your fellow citizens a favor and follow RCG's advice.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

For about 100 years the double action revolver has been around with no safety. In the 1980s they added a firing pin safety to prevent accidental discharge if the gun were dropped on the floor. 

I can attest that a holstered gun with a safety can be less safe than a DAO. Years ago I bought a DeSantis shoulder holster for my 1911 Colt 45. It had a snap tab to retain the weapon as it held the gun in the upside down position. It was quite common when carrying cocked and locked to apply the snap tab between the hammer and the firing pin. Indeed that is the only way the tab could be applied when carrying cocked and locked.

When unholstering the weapon on two occasions I noticed that the safety was not applied and that I had been carrying "cocked and un-locked" a very dangerous way to carry a 1911.

Upon close examination the snap was located directly over the safety and the action of applying the snap disengaged the safety.

A DOA without a safety would have been safer in that situation.


As a post script, DeSantis told me "we don't make holsters for cocked and locked". I told him that he should note that on the package that the holster was for "hammer down carry only". He told me only an idiot would carry a 1911 cocked and locked and he never changed the wording on the holster packaging. (This was back in the early 1980s and he was working in a small loft over a retail store in Mineola. I showed up in person for the explanation.) A nice looking holster though dangerous to use.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

SMann said:


> If your mind is already made up then quit wasting our time, do yourself and your fellow citizens a favor and follow RCG's advice.


Although it seems that his mind is made up, he's still asking questions and still wants advice.
That is most definitely *not* a waste of anybody's time. New shooters need all of the help they can get, even if their questions seem repetitious.

But if you feel that this discussion is a waste of *your* time, please feel free to avoid reading any more of it.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Amen Steve


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## 813Cholo (Jan 19, 2011)

thanks steve, and thanks everyone for your advice. I was just trying to figure out if you can safely carry without a safety and I think you all have proven that people do it every day. at 1st I thought pistols without safeties were only suitable for "bedside" use or other similar situations.


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