# Me and the Mrs..



## skydeaner (Apr 9, 2008)

Are possibly in need of a gun depending on where i get moved to by my job. I have settled on a 9mm. I have the same sized hands as her (meh... small bone structure) but i have 17.5in circumfrence forearms and am very well built. I am sure if the gun fit my hands and had tons of recoil i could handle it well strength wise, but i am more worried about her in a home defense situation. I want something that is going to be failproof or close to it. Something with a low trigger weight so it is easy for her to pull. And something that doesn't flip out of her hands and hit her in the head knocking her unconcious for the burglar to rape lol.

On the serious though, is there such a gun that is reasonably cheap? Stopping power would be nice. I dont know if that would be ammunition based or caliber based.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

First off, welcome to the forum.

There are debates all over the place, but I personally feel that a 9mm hollowpoint is plenty of stopping power if u know how to shoot (and 9mm is cheaper to practice with than the other calibers). Have you gone to the shops to hold any guns? That's what the decision will be based on...feel and how it shoots (if you can rent at your local ranges...where in IL are you at?).

How big/strong you are has little to do with how you handle the recoil of a firearm. Your experience/maturity as a shooter will determine how you handle recoil.

My girlfriend is a small-framed woman but she happened to like the bigger framed guns for some reason (she picked out the Stoeger Cougar so I bought it for her).

Once you go to a shop and handle as many as you can, then narrow it down and it will help us help you. There are too many options to help you out without you narrowing it down a bit. If you are trying to find a single handgun for the both of you to shoot then it might be a little bit harder, but you won't know until you go to a shop/range and handle as many as you can (and shoot them if possible).

-Jeff-


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Get your hands on several and see what fits you best. If you find something with a steel frame the extra weight will help it not muzzle flip so much but there are a few pretty nice poly frame guns that might fit your needs.

The most important thing is to get your hands on as many as possible to see what makes for the best fit for both of you. Is there a range near you? many rent guns so you can get some 1st hand knowledge as to fit and you get to see how it shoots.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

My wife, Carla, is 5'3" and 108#. She misses her .44Mag 29-2. Stress relief... She shoots my 45ACP best, and wants a Desert Eagle for fun.

My point.... Let HER tell you what gun she likes/dislikes. If she likes it, she'll shoot it with you. If she doesn't like it, you'll be at the range alone, and she won't be proficient.

And don't listen to the gun shop idiots. Do your own research, and learn a lot here. Many women LIKE big guns. They shoot them better, they recoil LESS, and they have a lot more room in those purses than we have in our waist bands...

Carla owns a "Lady Smith" .38 Special her Ex bought her... hates it.
She also owns a SIG P226 with huge Hogue grips... loves it.
Go figure.

My $0.02

JeffWard


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

With all the encouragement to not dismiss bigger calibers, I thought I'd throw in a word.

Sounds like neither of you have _ever_ shot a handgun. So the advice here is to rent a gun at a range that has them, and start with the 9mm. Or maybe even a .22 just to learn on, then go to a 9mm.

After you have been shooting a while, you'll wonder why you ever doubted that you could handle a 9mm, or a .45 for that matter.

But, since this is your first experience, the two of you need to rent a lot of different guns, take notes, stick with .22, .380 ACP, and 9mm to start.

Tell the range master this is your first time and ask him/her to go over safety and handling the gun before you get on the range.

Have her practice racking the slide while the gun is empty. It takes women practice to get down the technique at first. Plus, new guns are usually harder to rack than guns that have been run awhile.

Don't forget to look at revolvers. They tend to be the easiest to learn how to shoot on. Don't start with a snub-nose, you won't like the experience, as there isn't enough weight to absorb the recoil when you're new.

When you get ready to buy, don't sweat it. It will only be your _first_ gun, not your only gun.

When you go to shoot, if you shoot at an indoor range, wear double hearing protection - ear plugs and ear muffs. This will help make the experience a bit more pleasurable for both of you. Indoor ranges are louder than outdoor ranges, and the noise will turn some folks off if they aren't properly prepared.

Good luck in doing your research. And have loads of fun!

WM


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Welcome from the swamp. Enjoy. :smt1099


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

This should be the standard response for anyone new to guns and interested in getting one.

First, attend an NRA handgun safety course followed by a basic handgun course. Not only will the education teach you about safe handling and operation of a handgun, but using a proper stance for shooting can help you define what gun works right for you.

Second, budget for a means of securing your gun when not in use. Many of us like biometric safes as they provide fast access for home defense but keep guns away from small curious hands.

Third, keep in mind everyone that posts in this and other forums is biased towards their favorite brands when providing recommendations. Always try to at least paw, if not shoot, any gun that makes your list to buy.

Fourth, do not rely on firearms alone for home defense. A layered Home Defense plan will provide greater peace of mind. Consider street lighting, landscape lights, lines of sight to your front door, quality (bump resistant) locks, monitored alarm systems, etc. When I'm away, I feel better knowing that when someone tries to break into my house, the alarm siren fires, the landscape lights flash, all the house lights come on except in the MBR, and my wife is waiting behind cover with her 9mm and cell for the police to arrive, if she hasn't already left the house yet.

Again, the most important thing to consider with firearms is training. In the end, no amount of money spent on equipment can compensate for lack of skill. Regardless of how well chosen the handgun, if you wife hasn't been regularly trained on firearms use, the loud discharge alone could cause her to drop the gun. As one of the members of this forum has said, "Its the indian, not the arrow."


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## skydeaner (Apr 9, 2008)

thanks everyone i appreciate your help. I am smack dab in the center of illinois almost, i am in champaign/urbana. I need to find somewhere we can shoot some guns. I have only shot a gun one time. As far as i was told it was a 9mm but i am not sure of the model. Home defense as far as other means is above par for an apartment building. Sirens all doors and windows, cameras at entrances. I have a secure storage spot for it a fireproof/waterproof safe. I am not going to be recreationally using this gun, so i will probably just get the cheapest one we can both shoot accurately with. I will probably get a 9mm since most robers when they come in it wont really matter what they get shot with (or even if you hit them) most of the time they will be out as quick as possible and that is my main goal. My secondary goal would be to injur them enough to keep them from running but not enough to kill them, so they can be put where they need to be, and again like you guys said, a 9mm should be more than capable of such a thing.

Gun safety courses aside. Where would you chose to shoot somebody with the biggest target area that wouldn't kill them? I am not religious by any means, but just because someone is hard up for money doesn't mean they should die. Would the stomach be best? Can't you live a while with a hole in your intestines? Legs seem like too skinny of a target, especially if a crackhead is stealing my stereo. I am thinking lower abdomen?


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

:watching:

Get ready for a lecture.

WM


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

The purpose of fighting is to win. 
There is no possible victory in defense. 
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. 
The final weapon is the brain. 
All else is supplemental. 
- John Steinbeck


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## niadhf (Jan 20, 2008)

skydeaner said:


> Where would you chose to shoot somebody with the biggest target area that wouldn't kill them?


Ok I'll start the lecture refered to like this.

I wouldn't.
If I need to shoot, (i.e. myself or my loved ones are in danger), then I WILL NOT shoot to INJURE. I May fail in my task of shooting to kill, but that will be my task.
:watching:


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## skydeaner (Apr 9, 2008)

point taken, there shouldn't be a need for me to actually shot to hit someone ( a warning shot should be enough) unless they are endangering me or my loved ones and in that case they might as well be dead.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

:watching::watching::watching::watching::watching::watching::watching::watching::watching::watching:


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## niadhf (Jan 20, 2008)

warning shots go somewhere.
"always know your target AND BEYOND."
i'm done lecturing.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Do you prefer to shoot the kid across the street or the Crack Head? :numbchuck:

Shoot the one that has earned it until he/she stops earning it. :shock:

That will cover one bag of popcorn Beefy. Others will take care of the rest in time. 

:smt1099


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

You might be interested in this thread:

http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=9086&highlight=stop+threat

and this one:

http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=6512&highlight=shoot+abdomen

This discussion takes place elsewhere on the forum. The points are;

You aim for center of mass.

Your purpose is to stop the threat, not kill.

Leg shots, head shots, gut shots assume you have a target that is standing still, waiting for you to take aim. If that's the scenario, you are not under attack.

Trying to hit a live, moving target when you are being attacked is a lot different from shooting from shooting at the range.

Never fire a warning shot, it is too dangerous for you and for bystanders.

You can shout a warning, but don't fire.

If your not being attacked, you don't shoot.

WM


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## thomasward00 (Jan 3, 2008)

Down here in the South, this statement is pounded into us growning up with guns, "Don't point the gun at someone unless you are ready to kill them" When purchasing a gun for self defense, you must ask yourself if you are ready to take another persons life in self defense, If someone breaks into my home, they are dead, without a second thought. If you are not able to bring yourself to contemplate the thought of killing someone, the don't buy a gun, just call 911.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Wandering Man said:


> You might be interested in this thread:
> 
> http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=9086&highlight=stop+threat
> 
> ...


All excellent points! :smt023

A gun is a *deadly weapon*, and it's called that for a reason. Like Wandering Man said, you shoot to stop the threat. You don't shoot to wound and you don't fire a warning shot. Remember you are _legally responsible_ for every round that comes out of your gun. If you fire a warning shot or shoot to wound (and miss) that bullet is going to stop somewhere. If it stops in another human who was just sitting there watching TV or crossing the road, or whatever, you're going to jail and looking at huge legal bills. It sounds like you aren't mentally prepared to use a gun as a home/self defense tool, which is fine. Get a range gun and keep it locked up between range trips until you are ready. At this time though, you may need to explore other options for defense.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

As has been previously stated, I don't think the right mindset is there for you. 

Buy a large can of bear spray and baracade yourself in one room with a cell phone. It'll alleviate your distaste for shooting to kill, and save you from the horrible ramifications of trying to shoot to wound. 

Now, that being said, everyone here would react differently under a home invasion senario, and most people, including myself, would probably throw up afterwards if there was a need to shoot someone. We, at least I, am not saying that you need to be ready to shoot someone because it's cool, but because if it comes to that time, you want to have as many mental barriers out of the way as possible. It's like anything else, you may not want to have to do it, but if you get it in your mind that you can, it makes it less of an issue. Not to mention that owning a defense gun isn't about buying it with one box of bullets and putting it in the safe. Shooting defensively takes a lot of practice and dedication, otherwise just buy the bear spray.

Zhur

P.S. Buying the cheapest gun will get you the cheapest results often times, there is something to be said for quality, if you are looking for a good deal and good quality, look into Glocks.


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## Ptarmigan (Jul 4, 2008)

I think you need to take a basic handgun course and maybe do so before you make the decision on whether or not you want to buy a gun.

If you are not willing to take someone's life, you should not own a gun for self defense. You shoot to stop a threat, not to injure or to warn. You should aim for center mass as to ensure the best chance of hitting the threat.

All that being said, I suggest that you look at a nice revolver in .38 Special. That will meet you needs fine. I like the Smith & Wesson K frames like the model 10 for example. 

Good luck.


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Skydeaner has only posted on this forum 3 times.

All three posts were in this thread.

I don't think he's around anymore.

WM


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## xjclassic (May 15, 2008)

skydeaner said:


> Home defense as far as other means is above par for an apartment building.


This has always concerned myself. In the past I have lived in apartments and was alway very apprehensive of firing a round inside the building. Considering your neighbor and their family are only several feet away and in many cases only a six inch wall in between. My fear was always a threw shot that keeps traveling or worse a miss that blasts right through the walls.

Is this something that should be considered when choosing a weapon for the tight confines of an apartment building?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

xjclassic said:


> Is this something that should be considered when choosing a weapon for the tight confines of an apartment building?


*Any* round sufficiently powerful and penetrative to put down a human attacker is also powerful enough to go through walls.

Use an expanding bullet and make the hits on the bad guy.

Alternatives are pepper spray, big sticks, and Tasers. :mrgreen:


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

Wandering Man said:


> Skydeaner has only posted on this forum 3 times.
> 
> All three posts were in this thread.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think y'all run 'em off with all this talk about killin' and whatnot. Bear spray?


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Ram Rod said:


> I agree. I think y'all run 'em off with all this talk about killin' and whatnot. Bear spray?


Yeah, Bear Spray. It's better than someone who may not want to put the time in to shoot safely owning a gun and accidentally shooting themselves or someone else because they only bought one box of bullets with the gun and think they can defend themselves.

Perhaps you've never heard of it being called bear spray. It's just a bigger can, with a handle and trigger on it, that is "supposed" to be stronger than regular pepper spray. It very well may be a marketing gimmick, but the sheer volume of the can could come in handy. They are usually about as big as a can of hair (hahah hair:bear) spray and have a spray range of about 20 yards.

Zhur


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Wandering Man said:


> Skydeaner has only posted on this forum 3 times.
> 
> All three posts were in this thread.
> 
> ...


I think you're right. Three posts only in this thread, all back in April.


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## JagFarlane (Jul 23, 2008)

zhurdan said:


> Yeah, Bear Spray. It's better than someone who may not want to put the time in to shoot safely owning a gun and accidentally shooting themselves or someone else because they only bought one box of bullets with the gun and think they can defend themselves.
> 
> Perhaps you've never heard of it being called bear spray. It's just a bigger can, with a handle and trigger on it, that is "supposed" to be stronger than regular pepper spray. It very well may be a marketing gimmick, but the sheer volume of the can could come in handy. *They are usually about as big as a can of hair (hahah hair:bear) spray *and have a spray range of about 20 yards.
> 
> Zhur


LOL hell when I worked for Ramsey Outdoors we sold ones that looked like mini-fire extinguishers


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## Ptarmigan (Jul 4, 2008)

This seems to happen a lot here. Somehow old threads are started back up. I did not even notice that the original post was from April.


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## nelskc (Jan 15, 2008)

Fire off a full can of bear spray in your apartment and see how that goes? That would be fun to live in for the end of the lease, say goodbye to the security deposit


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Or, since the OP said that he didn't wanna kill a bad guy, just forget the bear spray and take pictures as the BG rapes and kills your wife. Bear spray is a small price to pay vs. not doing anything at all if a BG broke into your home. I don't know about you, but the security deposit isn't worth anything close to the life of my wife, um.. most of the time. hehe

Zhur


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

zhurdan said:


> Perhaps you've never heard of it being called bear spray. It's just a bigger can, with a handle and trigger on it, that is "supposed" to be stronger than regular pepper spray. It very well may be a marketing gimmick, but the sheer volume of the can could come in handy. They are usually about as big as a can of hair (hahah hair:bear) spray and have a spray range of about 20 yards.


I've seen one of these in action on an episode of Dog the Bounty Hunter, I know that may sound corny but Duane Chapman sprayed a guy up close and the spray was overwhelming.


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## Sedusa (Sep 1, 2008)

I actually had an almost identical question to the original poster, and was delighted to see this thread.

I'm looking at a handgun for home/self defense for both myself and my wife to shoot. we are about the same height (5'10" and 5'8" respectively), are both very slender (we both hover around 135 so we are not big and strong by any reckoning) and both of us have small hands. I'm definitely gonna take the advice on this thread and not make any decision until we've spent some time at the range (neither of us has ever shot a gun), but I am interested as to what we should be looking at generally. price is an issue as far as purchase, but in the long run, I'd rather have a reliable weapon and am willing to spend more to get it. as well, I imagine we'll be shooting for pleasure at ranges, so a gun that is also fun to shoot that we can grow with is a good thing.

We're looking at semiautomatic, and I don't think we have the need for a subcompact but maybe a standard would be too much? 9mm seems to be the caliber that we'd be looking at, and I've been recommended the Glock 19.

thanks if anyone has any input, I sincerely hope I'm not being redundant.

as far as bear spray and all that (which did make me chuckle), she and I are both of the firm belief that you shoot to stop an intruder or assailant and never would either of us fire warning shots or attempt to "wound" someone like in the movies. hopefully neither one of us will ever have to use deadly force but if we were not comfortable with applying it if we had to we would not be considering a firearm.

thanks everyone!

edit: oh, also I saw biometric safes mentioned. are there models that allow more than one person to open them? I would not want to have it keyed to me (or whatever the terminology is, please excuse my ignorance) and then have her unable to open it if she is alone!


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## dannyb (Jun 17, 2008)

When I took my home defense course back in the pleistocene era, the instructor put it this way:

You do have to make the decision on whether you are willing to use the weapon to stop and potentially kill an intruder before you can safely keep a weapon for home defense. One of the benefits of making this decision and then practicing with the weapon itself and also thinking through home defense scenarios, is that if you keep it up and the time comes that you need to defend your home, you will react according to your training. You will hold the weapon confidently and with a steady aim. The intruder, provided that he or she is not totally gone on drugs, will see that and most likely retreat. 

If, on the other hand, you do not prepare yourself and try to decide when confronted, your hand will be shaking, you will be making poor choices, you may be tempted to talk too much. If the intruder gets the idea that they have a good chance of carrying through what they consider to be their God-given right to attack you, they likely will. That's when the situation truly becomes do-or-die, and that's when you are most likely to have to kill them. 

Your choice: be trained, think it through before there's a problem, and be less likely to actually have to shoot and kill somebody. Be untrained, react rather than think, and be more likely to either have to harm somebody or be harmed yourself.


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