# Aim issues.... I think



## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

As some of you know, I recently fell in lust with a Beretta 84F, to supplement my 22 habit. Great little gun, fun to shoot, but the results are interesting. 

On my first range trip with it, I tended to shoot low and a bit right (left-hander, too) with a 6-o'clock hold using the 2-dot sights as thought they were just open sights. Not too ashamed on the group sizes, but low and to the right....

Today I managed a second trip with it, and was high (still slightly to the right, but not much) starting with the same box of ammo (Winchester 95gr "Target" FMJ) I had changed my POA to a line-up-the-dots style to see if a higher hold would change things. It did. 

My question is, for those that have Berettas with the 2-dot sights, where is YOUR POA and what are the results? 

Thanks, I hope!


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

SailDesign said:


> As some of you know, I recently fell in lust with a Beretta 84F, to supplement my 22 habit. Great little gun, fun to shoot, but the results are interesting.
> 
> On my first range trip with it, I tended to shoot low and a bit right (left-hander, too) with a 6-o'clock hold using the 2-dot sights as thought they were just open sights. Not too ashamed on the group sizes, but low and to the right....
> 
> ...


My very good advice is to bench rest the pistol. This should give you all the answers you're looking for. Generally in my experience Beretta's w/ stock sights have a combat sight picture. After market sights may or may not change the sight picture.. It sounds like a trigger control issue to me as opposed to a sight issue, but you won't know until you bench the pistol off a rest for groups. All my Beretta's except one have a combat sight picture, one with after market sights is a 6:00 sight picture.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCrackShot.htm


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

denner said:


> My very good advice is to bench rest the pistol. This should give you all the answers you're looking for. Generally in my experience Beretta's w/ stock sights have a combat sight picture. After market sights may or may not change the sight picture.. It sounds like a trigger control issue to me as opposed to a sight issue, but you won't know until you bench the pistol off a rest for groups. All my Beretta's except one have a combat sight picture, one with after market sights is a 6:00 sight picture.
> 
> So, you want to be a crack pistol shot? To learn to become a crack pistol shot, one needs old-fashioned


Thanks. I'll give that a try.


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## TIDEHSV (Jul 26, 2014)

denner said:


> My very good advice is to bench rest the pistol. This should give you all the answers you're looking for. Generally in my experience Beretta's w/ stock sights have a combat sight picture. After market sights may or may not change the sight picture.. It sounds like a trigger control issue to me as opposed to a sight issue, but you won't know until you bench the pistol off a rest for groups. All my Beretta's except one have a combat sight picture, one with after market sights is a 6:00 sight picture.
> 
> So, you want to be a crack pistol shot? To learn to become a crack pistol shot, one needs old-fashioned


I think it's just the light gun, heavy load problem. I'm having the same situation with a Kahr cm9, which I've never had with a handgun before. I'm a righty, predominately, so, and I'm low and left, despite a lot of experimentation. The latest greatest and best advice I've heard is to transfer as much as possible of the weight to the left hand. Problem is how do you do that with a handgun so tiny? I'll follow you. If I make a breakthrough, I"ll let you know...


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

TIDEHSV said:


> I think it's just the light gun, heavy load problem.


 I don't believe the 84FS @ 23 ounces empty even though it is of a blowback design is too light for any .380 cartridge, but perhaps.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

With me its never been the gun. It has always been me. If you getting nice groups off the point of aim every time adjust your sites. If your target looks like it was hit by a shotgun it is you.


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## TIDEHSV (Jul 26, 2014)

denner said:


> I don't believe the 84FS @ 23 ounces empty even though it is of a blowback design is too light for any .380 cartridge, but perhaps.


Really not saying "too light." Just unaccustomed recoil. I've certainly found the .380s more comfortable than the 9mm, but I still have the problem with the lighter guns. Perhaps he's the one of a hundred exception, but I highly doubt it...


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Pistol Correction Chart Right Hand
http://www.gunlink.info/targets/PistolChartR1S.pdf

Pistol Correction Chart Left Hand
http://www.gunlink.info/targets/PistolChartL1S.pdf


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Inexperienced right-hand shooters "milk" a pistol to low-left.
The solution has to do with how you grip the gun, and how you press its trigger.

The ideal situation is to learn to "isolate" your trigger finger. That is, when you press (not "pull") the trigger, only your trigger finger moves. Your other fingers do not move.
Start by gripping the pistol as tightly as you can, leaving your trigger finger free to move independently. (Add your other hand, if you like.)
Next, establish a good, solid sight picture.
Now, place your sight picture on the target, and do everything you can to keep the lined-up sights from moving away from that point.
Moving only your trigger finger, press the pistol's trigger straight to the rear. Maintain that sight picture, and its place on the target.
Now you should be pleasantly surprised to find a hole in the target very close to where you were aiming.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

^ Good advice... and i'll add to make sure your not gripping so tightly your trigger finger can't move independently and freely. Also, make sure you have "follow through" after the trigger breaks (shot fired). A lot of shooters immediately take their trigger finger off the trigger as soon as the trigger breaks... this leads to "slapping" the trigger and is another cause of unintentional shot placement. Hold the trigger after the shot and ride the trigger (finger still making contact) until you feel or hear the trigger reset.

As for finger placement... find your trigger fingers "sweet spot", meaning somewhere between the tip of your finger and the first joint. Start right in the middle of the pad of your finger (on trigger) and adjust from there as every shooter is different and some find better results either slightly closer to the tip of the finger or closer to the first joint.


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

TIDEHSV said:


> Really not saying "too light." Just unaccustomed recoil. I've certainly found the .380s more comfortable than the 9mm, but I still have the problem with the lighter guns. Perhaps he's the one of a hundred exception, but I highly doubt it...


Probably this. I have been a rifle guy forever, and just this year bought my first pistol, Ruger 22/45. Love the thing, nice groups considering I'm a rifle guy, room for improvement but not too shabby if I do say so myself. I fell in lust with the Beretta in the LGS and am enjoying the [email protected] out of it - just wondering why one range trip had me low right, and another high when what I need is in the middle.

I have invested in a laser boresight insert, so I should be able to sit in the living room and see where the dot hits the other wall relative to the sights. Drop over 10 yards is not going to be enough to bother that, and I'll hjopefully be off to the range next weekend hitting fine up-and-down, and all over the place horizontally. 

More work needed = more shooting = more fun! A "crack" pistol shot I'll never be, but I'll have just as much fun.


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## TIDEHSV (Jul 26, 2014)

SailDesign said:


> Probably this. I have been a rifle guy forever, and just this year bought my first pistol, Ruger 22/45. Love the thing, nice groups considering I'm a rifle guy, room for improvement but not too shabby if I do say so myself. I fell in lust with the Beretta in the LGS and am enjoying the [email protected] out of it - just wondering why one range trip had me low right, and another high when what I need is in the middle.
> 
> I have invested in a laser boresight insert, so I should be able to sit in the living room and see where the dot hits the other wall relative to the sights. Drop over 10 yards is not going to be enough to bother that, and I'll hjopefully be off to the range next weekend hitting fine up-and-down, and all over the place horizontally.
> 
> More work needed = more shooting = more fun! A "crack" pistol shot I'll never be, but I'll have just as much fun.


Just remember that these subcompact SD pistols were never intended to be range pistols shot by crack shots. They're strictly intended for close range...


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

TIDEHSV said:


> Just remember that these subcompact SD pistols were never intended to be range pistols shot by crack shots. They're strictly intended for close range...


Worry not - it's a range toy, not a tack-hammer. For that, I'll play with my 22/45 for a while, or get out the Winchester 52 and make single half-inch-sized holes at 25 yards..... But I wouldn't mind a consistent "pattern"


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