# Looking to buy a 380 pocket gun.



## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

I've carried a little Kel-tec p32 in my pocket for years, but due to the price of ammo and anemic power of the round, I purchased a Glock 42 to replace it a couple years ago. I do like the Glock, but it's really not a pocket gun. I can carry it fin in a pair of cargo shorts, but it's just a little too big to slip into the front pocket of a pair of slacks, which has resulted in me still carrying that little p32 the majority of the time because of the business casual dress code at my work. The other thing that I'm not crazy about with the Glock is that there is no safety, and the trigger is a little too good for a pocket gun (for me). I do have an aftermarket slide lock trigger safety on it, but I much prefer a DA trigger or a traditional thumb safety on a pocket gun. 

There are a couple newer pocket guns on the market that I'm interested in that there really isn't a ton of info about. One is the Springfield 911 and the other is the Remington RM380.

The 911 is just your typical micro 1911. I know that it's a bit smaller and lighter than the Sigs, Kimbers, or Colts. Early reports are that it's more reliable than the Kimbers or Colts and more on par with the Sig from what I've read. I do like that it comes with two mags, and that the price point is considerably less than the Sig

The Remington is apparently REALLY reliable, and it's a copy of the rohrbaugh 9mm. I have felt one, and it really feels good in the hand, but I have not shot one.


Does anyone on this forum have first hand experience with either of these pistols. Have you had any problems with these guns other than hating on Springfield or Remington for political reasons?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I've got an RM380 it's an excellent pocket gun, it's a DAO (double action only) with an aluminum alloy frame and stainless steel slide. It has a long double action trigger similar to a revolver, but not as heavy. It's light enough that you can carry it all day and not even realize you're carrying it. However it's a copy of the Rohrbaugh .380 not a .9mm. Myself, I don't want a manual safety on any of my guns, it's just something else you've gotta' do. I also have a Sig P238 HDW all stainless and a Kimber Micro Raptor .380 but rarely carry them because you've gotta carry 'em cocked and locked for any serious self defense situation. As a matter of fact I rarely if ever carry a .380 and prefer my Kahr MK40 which is almost the same size although quite a bit heavier. Remington if you don't already know has filed for bankruptcy, that may be an issue for you to consider.

The Springfield as far as I can tell has the same physical dimensions as the Sig P238 and the Kimber Micro .380? At 12.6 oz it's the lightest of the three, followed by the Kimber at 13.4 oz, the Sig 15.2 oz. If that's the type of .380 that you want, I don't think you'll go wrong with the Springfield 911. Springfield does make a good product.


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Welcome to the forum from AZ. 

The Thunder 380 from Bersa is the small gun I'm most accurate with. It has a fixed barrel. Blowback action which tends to be dirty.

The sig 238 in 380 is similar to the 938 in 9mm. I need the extended mag to shoot it.

Try before you buy, if you can find a range that will rent these. YMMV.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Uh...the Keltec you have carried for years doesn't have a lever safety either.


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

Bisley said:


> Uh...the Keltec you have carried for years doesn't have a lever safety either.


It says in my post that I prefer a DA trigger or a traditional thumb safety on a pocket gun. 
The Keltec that I have carried for years has a long DA type trigger despite not being a true DA setup with double strike capability. Outside of a hammerless revolver with a 12lb trigger, It's about as safe as it gets for a pocket gun IMO. I have no problem even Mexican carrying it in a jacket pocket when needed.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

I have the Sig P238 and its a fantastic weapon.... Easier to shoot and dead on for self defense....

As has been suggested, try weapons(if possible) before you purchase................


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

desertman said:


> I've got an RM380 it's an excellent pocket gun, it's a DAO (double action only) with an aluminum alloy frame and stainless steel slide. It has a long double action trigger similar to a revolver, but not as heavy. It's light enough that you can carry it all day and not even realize you're carrying it. *However it's a copy of the Rohrbaugh .380 not a .9mm*. Myself, I don't want a manual safety on any of my guns, it's just something else you've gotta' do. I also have a Sig P238 HDW all stainless and a Kimber Micro Raptor .380 but rarely carry them because you've gotta carry 'em cocked and locked for any serious self defense situation. As a matter of fact I rarely if ever carry a .380 and prefer my Kahr MK40 which is almost the same size although quite a bit heavier. Remington if you don't already know has filed for bankruptcy, that may be an issue for you to consider.
> 
> The Springfield as far as I can tell has the same physical dimensions as the Sig P238 and the Kimber Micro .380? At 12.6 oz it's the lightest of the three, followed by the Kimber at 13.4 oz, the Sig 15.2 oz. If that's the type of .380 that you want, I don't think you'll go wrong with the Springfield 911. Springfield does make a good product.
> 
> View attachment 15742


A lot of people are unaware that Rohrbaugh made a 380 which is just a variant of the R9. I mentioned the RM380 as being a copy of the R9 simply so people would know what I was talking about. It's the same thing with Seecamp for some reason. A lot of people don't realize that they have made a 380 for many years and not just the little 32 they're famous for.

What's the accuracy with the RM380 like? Is it comparable to the little Keltecs or the original LCP? I did notice that the trigger breaks a bit further, but it also seems smoother and more predictable like a high quality revolver.


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

Cait43 said:


> I have the Sig P238 and its a fantastic weapon.... Easier to shoot and dead on for self defense....
> 
> As has been suggested, try weapons(if possible) before you purchase................


I've put a couple hundred of rounds through two different Sig p238 pistols that a couple of my buddies own. I also used to own a Colt mustang. I'm pretty familiar with the micro 1911's. I'm just curious how the Springfield 911 stacks up. That's not a gun I'll be able to try out without buying it first unless someone I know has one. If multiple shooters on a forum say that it shoots just like the micro Sig, I'll take their word for it.

I'm mostly looking at it over the sig because it's a bit lighter, and every ounce matters with pocket guns. It also comes with 2 mags (one flush, one extended), which is a nice bonus.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

kaboom99 said:


> A lot of people are unaware that Rohrbaugh made a 380 which is just a variant of the R9. I mentioned the RM380 as being a copy of the R9 simply so people would know what I was talking about. It's the same thing with Seecamp for some reason. A lot of people don't realize that they have made a 380 for many years and not just the little 32 they're famous for.
> 
> *What's the accuracy with the RM380 like?* Is it comparable to the little Keltecs or the original LCP? I did notice that the trigger breaks a bit further, but it also seems smoother and more predictable like a high quality revolver.


It's what you'd expect from a .380 that small. I don't own a Keltec or an LCP to compare it with or even looked at one to try out. All of these guns are close range weapons not meant for target shooting at 50 yards. At under 10 feet it's accurate enough.

Although I can't say for sure, but I think a lot of people on this forum are aware that Rohrbaugh made a .380? That's kinda' where I'm coming from. Just as they probably know that the NAA Guardian is a spinoff of the Seecamp design. Seecamp manufactured pistols from 1981 to 2014. They weren't cheap. Like the Rohrbaugh they were basically hand made pistols. Seecamp initially made DA conversions for 1911 pistols. NAA introduced the Guardian in .32ACP in 1996, the .380 in 2001. I would imagine that NAA's introduction of the Guardian series of pistols led to Seecamp's demise? The Seecamp LWS25, LWS32 and LWS380 were basically the same physical size. Whereas the NAA .380 Guardian was a larger pistol than it's .32 cousin.

The Rohrbaugh was made from 2002-2014 and bought by Remington. The original Rohrbaugh's were not cheap, at around $1,200 in 2009. Probably more due to supply and demand. They were pretty much hand made to order. They had an aircraft aluminum alloy frame with a stainless steel slide. There are no cast, metal injection molded, or forged parts, and the only plastic on the gun are the grips. The magazine release was on the heel, whereas Remington has the traditional button release. I doubt very much that the Remington RM380 has anywhere near the quality of the original Rohrbaugh. But there again you get what you pay for, one is basically hand made the other mass produced. With an MSRP of around $330, overall though the RM380 is a decent little pistol.


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## sudo (Aug 29, 2017)

I just bought a Sig P238 as a pocket 380.

It's in the 10 day California jail, so haven't tried it yet. 

But I did rent one and it shot great.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

For about 15 years, until arthritis struck, I pocket-carried the AMT .45 Backup.
I recommend it to you.

In pocket guns, I suggest that one which reliably delivers almost-half-inch, 230gr HPs probably trumps any 9mm or .380 ACP.
These pistols are not available new, but it's pretty easy to find a used one in excellent condition. Almost all of them were somebody's EDC, but none was fired often. Prices are quite reasonable (check GunBroker).

The AMT comes with an atrocious DAO trigger, but giving one a rudimentary trigger job is easily done at home. Sophisticated tools and knowledge are not required. It just takes patience.
Fully loaded, you get six shots; and the reload is another five. Where I live, that's quite enough.

I carried mine in a custom-made, synthetic-material, latex-faced pocket holster by Robert Mika. Robert's holsters are not expensive, and they're almost indestructible. They reliably remain in the pocket when one does a presentation.

Be warned that the AMT .45 Backup is an expert's tool, and requires the user to put in constant practice to maintain the required skills. But if you do that, the rewards are great.

(I now pocket-carry a Kel-Tec P-3AT, my wife's pistol, because young family members will be visiting. Otherwise I would be carrying–OWB–a Colt's M.1903/1908 in .380 ACP.)


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> For about 15 years, until arthritis struck, I pocket-carried the AMT .45 Backup.
> I recommend it to you.
> 
> In pocket guns, I suggest that one which reliably delivers almost-half-inch, 230gr HPs probably trumps any 9mm or .380 ACP.
> ...


My Glock 42 is the biggest gun that I would ever pocket carry outside of work. Your typical 380 micros are the biggest i would pocket carry while at work. I'm sure the AMT .45 Backup is a fine pistol, but it weighs about twice as much as the firearms that I'm considering, and is no smaller than both the sub-compact 9mm and 40 S&W pistols that I already own.


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## Gideon (Aug 20, 2012)

One option nobody’s mentioned is the Kahr P380. I had the keltec and a few other 380s, they all have their pro’s and cons. I love my Kahr P380 and settled on it because...
-long but smooth DAO
-Slide locks to the rear after the last shot
-Useable sites but I won’t argue that you don’t really need, probably should even be using “sights” on a gun like this.
-I shoot other Kahr guns as my primary concealed so they work/operate the same, breakdown in a similar fashion, etc.

I buy a kid’s bicycle type and cut a small section to slip over the grip; provides better “purchase” on the gun and allows for more comfortable shooting sessions. 

Gideon


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Gideon said:


> ...I buy a kid's bicycle type and cut a small section to slip over the grip; provides better "purchase" on the gun and allows for more comfortable shooting sessions.


If you ask at your local bicycle shop, they'll probably give you, for no charge, an unrepairable bike-tire inner tube.
Cut a tubular section of this, and slip it over the pistol's grip, using soapy water as the lubricant.

Bike-tire inner tubes are made of a sticky, latex-like rubber that adheres well to the hand.

We use this on my wife's P-3AT.
We both like it.



kaboom99 said:


> ...the AMT .45 Backup...is no smaller than both the sub-compact 9mm and 40 S&W pistols that I already own.


I doubt that, but I'll accept your statement because you have those other pistols, and I don't.


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## Swampguy (Jun 23, 2016)

My first .380 semi-auto pistol was the Remington (RM-380) and it was okay, but I didn't care for the trigger and my wife could hardly pull the trigger at all (arthritis), so I traded it for the Sig P-238 and it is a wonderful pistol. It became my wife's pistol and I got a Sig P-938 (9mm) for myself. Both of these pistols are amazingly accurate for small pistols, especially the .380, and I am confident that it is primarily due to the significantly better trigger (my wife loves it - also the slide is extremely easy to rack). She did not like the Kahr 380 at all as the slide is hard to rack and it has a heavy trigger as well. Later, I got another Sig P-238 for myself to pocket carry - (also, we prefer different grips). The P-938 is only slightly larger and I actually pocket carry it most of the time, but when I want to be bit sneaker, I opt for the .380 (Sig P-238). The controls on the Sigs are almost identical Colt 1911s (.45 ACP), which I have had for many years and shoot a lot. It does have a manual safety, which I also prefer. Try it, you will like it. It is a sweet shooter and very accurate.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Click to enlarge


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I doubt that, but I'll accept your statement because you have those other pistols, and I don't.


I own a Beretta Nano 9mm and a Keltec p-40. Both are about the same size as the gun you mentioned and weigh considerably less. IMO, both guns are turds, but they're very concealable turds for the firepower they possess.

For what it's worth, I would much rather own the pistol you mentioned, so there's that LOL


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## pandes (Jul 10, 2018)

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

I personally hate pocket carry myself,I don't like a big chunk of anything in my front or rear pocket when i sit down.
I also don't like a gun flopping around in my cargo shorts side pockets.
That being said...We all like what we like.
My choice would be the Kahr as well.


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

blackshirt said:


> I personally hate pocket carry myself,I don't like a big chunk of anything in my front or rear pocket when i sit down.
> I also don't like a gun flopping around in my cargo shorts side pockets.
> That being said...We all like what we like.
> My choice would be the Kahr as well.


As apposed to having a much bigger chunk of anything in or on your waist?

I get that some people aren't a fan of pocket carry because they're no a fan of pocket guns, but carrying a true pocket gun like a little seecamp or Ruger LCP in an actual pocket holster in a front pocket is basically like carrying a wallet in your front pocket. You don't even know it's there. The only way you would have a gun flopping around in your cargo shorts side pocket is if you were trying to pocket carry a gun that's not meant to pocket carry in the only pocket it will fit in. My brother does this with his S&W Shield sometimes when doing active stuff and then complains that it beats his leg up. For me, anything that weighs more than about 15 ounces, is much taller than 4 inches, and is any wider than an inch is too big for pocket carry.

As for the Kahr 380's, they're sweet little shooters, but can be very ammo picky from what I've read. I've shot the CM9, and I thought is was really accurate for what it was, but it's a little bigger than what I'm looking for. My grandma's neighbor who is a cop has a Kahr 380 and says it's super reliable even with cheap practice ammo providing you stay with brass, so who knows? They're definitely one of the nicer looking mouse guns.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

kaboom99 said:


> As apposed to having a much bigger chunk of anything in or on your waist?
> 
> I get that some people aren't a fan of pocket carry because they're no a fan of pocket guns, but carrying a true pocket gun like a little seecamp or Ruger LCP in an actual pocket holster in a front pocket is basically like carrying a wallet in your front pocket. You don't even know it's there. The only way you would have a gun flopping around in your cargo shorts side pocket is if you were trying to pocket carry a gun that's not meant to pocket carry in the only pocket it will fit in. My brother does this with his S&W Shield sometimes when doing active stuff and then complains that it beats his leg up. For me, anything that weighs more than about 15 ounces, is much taller than 4 inches, and is any wider than an inch is too big for pocket carry.
> 
> As for the Kahr 380's, they're sweet little shooters, but can be very ammo picky from what I've read. I've shot the CM9, and I thought is was really accurate for what it was, but it's a little bigger than what I'm looking for. My grandma's neighbor who is a cop has a Kahr 380 and says it's super reliable even with cheap practice ammo providing you stay with brass, so who knows? They're definitely one of the nicer looking mouse guns.


An advantage of pocket carry is that it is easier to draw and fire the weapon as there are no articles of clothing to move out of the way. That unto itself can give you the element of surprise as it will not be as obvious that you are going for a gun. It's just as easy as going for your wallet. Especially if you're in a "gimme your wallet" type of situation. The disadvantage is that it may limit the size gun you can carry? Obviously that will all depend on your physical size and the type of clothing you're wearing. I'm 6 ft. tall, wear cargo pants and have no problem pocket carrying my Kahr MK40, Springfield XDS .45 3.3, J-Frame S&W's, Glock G26, G27, and G43 or obviously any of the mouse guns that I have. The MK40, XDS .45 and G27 are my preferred weapons for pocket carry. There are a wide variety of holsters available designed for pocket carry to prevent the gun from flopping around in a pocket and disguise the gun as well. Carrying a gun unholstered and loose in a pocket is a recipe for disaster. Blackhawk makes a variety of pocket holsters that cling to the inside of your pocket which prevents the holster from coming out simultaneously with the gun.

The problem prone, ammo specific, Kimber Solo Carry made for an ideal pocket gun with it's rounded edges, .9mm caliber and overall physical dimensions. I've had no issues with mine even with different types of ammo. But because of Murphy's Law I'll never carry it. Which is a shame. I don't think they make it anymore because of it's problems and dropped it in favor of their Micro 9? I have a Micro 9 and it's worked flawlessly straight outta' the box. But it's still a hammer fired gun to be carried cocked and locked which rules it out at least for me.

I also carry a Glock G30 .45 sometimes a larger framed .45 in an OWB (outside waistband) holster, covered by an open shirt. But I've still gotta' move the shirt outta' the way to clear the gun from it's holster. I've had on occasion a hammer fired gun's hammer spur get caught on my shirt while I've practiced drawing and firing the weapon. I've also had a hammer fired gun's hammer spur get caught on the inside of my pocket while doing the same. Because of that I very rarely carry a hammer fired weapon in an OWB or even in a pocket holster. Something to keep in mind. The S&W hammerless J-Frames make for an outstanding pocket carry gun and were specifically designed for that purpose. So too are small striker fired semi auto's or DAO's whose hammer is flush with the back of the slide such as the RM380. Having a hammer fired gun getting caught on an article of clothing is the last thing you need in an emergency situation when you have barely enough time to even think.

I usually only carry hammer fired weapons if I'm openly carrying while out in the desert and no one's around. Even though Arizona allows for open carry in public, I never for strategic reasons open carry while going about my daily business. I've been behind people who were openly carrying while in a check out line and have often thought of how easy it would be to grab that individual's gun and either use it on them or other people for that matter. Besides you never know who's standing along side of you? It's better that they don't know that you are armed for your own sake and for the sake of others.


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

desertman said:


> An advantage of pocket carry is that it is easier to draw and fire the weapon as there are no articles of clothing to move out of the way. That unto itself can give you the element of surprise as it will not be as obvious that you are going for a gun. It's just as easy as going for your wallet. Especially if you're in a "gimme your wallet" type of situation. The disadvantage is that it may limit the size gun you can carry? Obviously that will all depend on your physical size and the type of clothing you're wearing. I'm 6 ft. tall, wear cargo pants and have no problem pocket carrying my Kahr MK40, Springfield XDS .45 3.3, J-Frame S&W's, Glock G26, G27, and G43 or obviously any of the mouse guns that I have. The MK40, XDS .45 and G27 are my preferred weapons for pocket carry. There are a wide variety of holsters available designed for pocket carry to prevent the gun from flopping around in a pocket and disguise the gun as well. Carrying a gun unholstered and loose in a pocket is a recipe for disaster. Blackhawk makes a variety of pocket holsters that cling to the inside of your pocket which prevents the holster from coming out simultaneously with the gun.
> 
> The problem prone, ammo specific, Kimber Solo Carry made for an ideal pocket gun with it's rounded edges, .9mm caliber and overall physical dimensions. I've had no issues with mine even with different types of ammo. But because of Murphy's Law I'll never carry it. Which is a shame. I don't think they make it anymore because of it's problems and dropped it in favor of their Micro 9? I have a Micro 9 and it's worked flawlessly straight outta' the box. But it's still a hammer fired gun to be carried cocked and locked which rules it out at least for me.
> 
> ...


I only carry hammer fired guns after reading an article about how their was a positive correlation between striker fired guns and increased estrogen levels in their owners. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but it was on the Internet.

It's definitely something to think about.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

You cant draw a pocket gun if your gun is in your back or front pocket and your sitting down.
As far as having a chunky gun on my hip...I will take that every time over pocket carry.
Rather i am driving or sitting down eating i can reach it no problem.

But hey...That's just me


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

blackshirt said:


> You cant draw a pocket gun if your gun is in your back or front pocket and your sitting down.
> As far as having a chunky gun on my hip...I will take that every time over pocket carry.
> Rather i am driving or sitting down eating i can reach it no problem.
> 
> But hey...That's just me


I can draw from a front pocket just fine while sitting down now that all my pants these days have stretch material.

Sorta embarrassing to admit, but true. Back in the day you had to rock a pair of these to do that
https://goo.gl/images/AqL1ZG


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I too once had a Keltec 32, but later ditched it years ago because I was not happy with the caliber. I ended up buying a Ruger LCP. It is the 2nd generation. It is based off the Keltec design, but is more refined. The trigger is a little lighter too - with the 2nd gen model. 

It is a good little gun


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

kaboom99 said:


> *I only carry hammer fired guns after reading an article about how their was a positive correlation between striker fired guns and increased estrogen levels in their owners.* I don't know how much truth there is to that, but it was on the Internet.
> 
> It's definitely something to think about.


I guess that if you believe that you'll believe anything? After all if it was on the internet it must be true, right? Something else to think about. No offense intended, but that's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.

Some people shy away from striker fired guns as they believe they are unsafe. They have to have a security blanket such as a manually operated safety or a long double action trigger pull as on a revolver. Whatever floats your boat is fine by me. But the truth is that striker fired pistols are every bit as safe as any other pistol as long as you keep your finger off the trigger when not firing the gun. Which you should be doing anyway regardless of any pistol's type of action. Striker fired guns are the guns of the future. Because of their short, light and consistent triggers they can be fired more accurately than a revolver, DAO or a DA/SA semi auto. You don't have to transition between a double action trigger and a single action trigger as on a DA/SA semi auto. They don't have to be carried cocked and locked, safety on, as on a SA semi auto. There are no safeties you have to remember to disengage in a life or death situation. Just draw the weapon and fire. Because they don't have exposed hammers there's less of a chance of them snagging on anything while being drawn.

I'm fortunate in that I own a wide variety of pistols of different makes with all different types of actions. I've owned, carried, shot and worked on them for years. I've practiced drawing and firing them from all different types of holsters in different positions wearing different types of clothing suitable for any particular season. That's the only way I could ever reach a logical conclusion as to which type of action I think is the best for any serious self defense situation. Practice and experience does count for something.

The majority of the nations law enforcement and military agencies have transitioned to striker fired pistols and for good reason. Do they all have increased estrogen levels? Estrogen is a female sex hormone. Has there ever been a credible scientific study along with blood tests on everyone who owns, or is assigned a striker fired pistol to prove that? Are you trying to insinuate that the nations law enforcement and military personnel along with anyone who chooses a striker fired pistol are somehow effeminate? Or that striker fired pistols possess some kind of unexplainable supernatural powers? If not, then why would you even bring something like that up in the first place? You did say that was the only reason why you carry hammer fired guns. So it's quite obvious at least to me that you believe such ridiculous nonsense.


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

Shipwreck said:


> I too once had a Keltec 32, but later ditched it years ago because I was not happy with the caliber. I ended up buying a Ruger LCP. It is the 2nd generation. It is based off the Keltec design, but is more refined. The trigger is a little lighter too - with the 2nd gen model.
> 
> It is a good little gun


People say that the 2nd gen original LCP is the pest pocket gun ever made. When you consider that they're only $199 now, they're hard to pass up. My only issue with the LCP is that like the Keltec, hot defense ammo is not recommended, and their are plenty of Internet tales to back that up on top of a manufacture recommendation.

One thing that I liked when I replaced the p32 with the Glock 42 was that not only was I stepping up in caliber, I was also getting a gun that could shoot the stoutest rounds available. Unfortunately, the Glock was a little too big to pocket carry at work, so i went back to the p32. This time, I'm going to get another 380 that will safely shoot the hot stuff, but one that's a bit smaller than the Glock. This is one of the reasons I have been looking at a micro 1911 and the RM380. Both gun designs will safely shoot higher pressure commercial defense loads according to the manufacturer.

While an extra 150 feet per second doesn't seem like that much, you can really see the difference when shooting things like water jugs or fruit. The +p Underwood Gold Dots I carry in my Glock 42 are only packing like 40 ft lbs less than the Hornady Critical defense in my Beretta Nano. I would like to use these rounds in my next little 380 as well.

Note.....Yes, I know there is no actual SAMMI specs for +p 380. It's a marketing thing, but said rounds really are more stout.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

desertman said:


> ...No offense intended, but that's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read...The majority of the nations law enforcement and military agencies have transitioned to striker fired pistols...Do they all have increased estrogen levels?...why would you even bring something like that up in the first place?...


He was joking.

Lighten up a little, please.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

kaboom99 said:


> ...I have been looking at a micro 1911 and the RM380...


My own personal feeling is that I would not carry a pocket pistol with a safety lever.
I've done that, and I used a well-designed holster too.
But still, just once in a while, the safety slipped down to "off," all on its own.
(Shudder!)

I, personally, feel much more comfortable pocket-carrying a DAO gun.
It doesn't need to have a "heavy" trigger; merely being DAO is enough, in my own experience.
(But of course that AMT .45 Backup did indeed have a heavy trigger, even after I gave it a trigger job.)

And, of course, you really do need a properly-designed holster, even in your separate, gun-dedicated pocket.


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

desertman said:


> I guess that if you believe that you'll believe anything? After all if it was on the internet it must be true, right? Something else to think about. No offense intended, but that's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.
> 
> Some people shy away from striker fired guns as they believe they are unsafe. They have to have a security blanket such as a manually operated safety or a long double action trigger pull as on a revolver. Whatever floats your boat is fine by me. But the truth is that striker fired pistols are every bit as safe as any other pistol as long as you keep your finger off the trigger when not firing the gun. Which you should be doing anyway regardless of any pistol's type of action. Striker fired guns are the guns of the future. Because of their short, light and consistent triggers they can be fired more accurately than a revolver, DAO or a DA/SA semi auto. You don't have to transition between a double action trigger and a single action trigger as on a DA/SA semi auto. They don't have to be carried cocked and locked, safety on, as on a SA semi auto. There are no safeties you have to remember to disengage in a life or death situation. Just draw the weapon and fire. Because they don't have exposed hammers there's less of a chance of them snagging on anything while being drawn.
> 
> ...


Don't kill the messenger. I'm just repeated what in read in some unsourceable made up study that I'm claiming to have read. 
Honestly, I've never even shot a gun; however, thanks to the wealth of knowledge you have shared with me today, I have decided not to purchase the CZ sp01 that I was looking at in favor of a Glock 17 because as you have pointed out, Striker guns can be "fired more accurately than a DA/SA semi auto."

Thank you for that!


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## kaboom99 (Jul 23, 2018)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> My own personal feeling is that I would not carry a pocket pistol with a safety lever.
> I've done that, and I used a well-designed holster too.
> But still, just once in a while, the safety slipped down to "off," all on its own.
> (Shudder!)
> ...


I think we get spoiled with a lot of these good triggers these days and sometimes forget how accurate a good smooth DA trigger can be if one can shoot a DA trigger well. Honestly, I can dump a magazine into a 6" target with my little p32 at 7 yards all day long, and the trigger on the Remington reels smoother and more predictable to me.

I think you just talked me into that RM380. DA really does feel right in a designated pocket gun.

I'll post a pick of her when I pick her up on payday. Heck, I might even go with the stainless one for $30 more!


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

kaboom99 said:


> I think we get spoiled with a lot of these good triggers these days and sometimes forget how accurate a good smooth DA trigger can be if one can shoot a DA trigger well. Honestly, I can dump a magazine into a 6" target with my little p32 at 7 yards all day long, and the trigger on the Remington reels smoother and more predictable to me.
> 
> I think you just talked me into that RM380. DA really does feel right in a designated pocket gun.
> 
> I'll post a pick of her when I pick her up on payday. Heck, I might even go with the stainless one for $30 more!


One of my 'pet peeves' is the compulsion that most folks seem to have to cock the hammer on a DA revolver. It seems just to be a fact that people prefer to practice what they already do well, and avoid the things they don't do well.

I almost never fire my DA revolvers in SA mode, because it simply does not require much practice, if you have learned to shoot the same gun well in DA mode.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

kaboom99 said:


> I can draw from a front pocket just fine while sitting down now that all my pants these days have stretch material.
> 
> Sorta embarrassing to admit, but true. Back in the day you had to rock a pair of these to do that
> https://goo.gl/images/AqL1ZG


I'm not much into spandex...My wife loves em but hers fit me funny.:smt082


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Ever since the transition to striker fired guns in police depts, there have been tons of negligent discharges. Most never make the news.

I work in the criminal justice field... I have been told that large departments have 1 or 2 a week. Some have NEVER had any until they switched to Glocks. Never. For decades.. Then, one or two a month.... EVERY month.

Argue saftey all you want, but DA/SA is more forgiving.

The number of guns I have owned over 20+ years is in the 3 digits. I have owned and carried striker fired guns in the past. As I get older, all i buy and carry are now DA/SA (except for the DAO Ruger LCP). And, I practice shooting in DA. Anything not DA/SA is a range toy to me.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

Shipwreck said:


> Ever since the transition to striker fired guns in police depts, there have been tons of negligent discharges. Most never make the news.
> 
> I work in the criminal justice field... I have been told that large departments have 1 or 2 a week. Some have NEVER had any until they switched to Glocks. Never. For decades.. Then, one or two a month.... EVERY month.
> 
> ...


That is why i have a love for my Kahr DAO guns


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

blackshirt said:


> That is why i have a love for my Kahr DAO guns


I had a Kahr PM9, once upon a time. But, not a huge fan. It did work, I just like DA/SA more.

I used a Glock 17 for competition shooting a few years ago. But when I stopped, I sold the gun.

I kinda want a 1911 again - a 9mm DW Valor (I have owned two in 45 ACP before). But, I know it will only ever be a range toy for me (10-15 years ago, I did carry a 1911).

I carry a HK P2000 DA/SA and P2000sk DA/SA. Those are my daily carry guns (I carry 1 or the other, depending on what I am wearing). On occasion, I carry my P99 A/S. It is striker fired, but is DA/SA.

Berettas are my favorite, but I have a hip problem, and can no longer carry the weight.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Shipwreck said:


> I too once had a Keltec 32, but later ditched it years ago because I was not happy with the caliber. I ended up buying a Ruger LCP. It is the 2nd generation. It is based off the Keltec design, but is more refined. The trigger is a little lighter too - with the 2nd gen model.
> 
> It is a good little gun


When you say 2nd Gen model LCP, I'm not sure which you're talking about. As far as I know, they made the LCP, LCP Custom, and now the LCP II.

I own both an LCP and an LCP II. IMO, the LCP II beats the original hands down. It's actually a single action internal hammer pistol but acts similar to a striker fired model. The original was DAO. The new model has a beefier grip and easier to rack slide as well as better sights. The new trigger is far superior in my opinion and actually usable.

As far as reliability is concerned, both my LCPs have been flawless. I can run a mixed batch of FMJ, HP, reloads, and flying ashtrays with no failures to date. I find it amazing they run most anything. I admit I don't have a high round count through them, maybe 500 or so rounds because they are just not fun to shoot.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Craigh said:


> When you say 2nd Gen model LCP, I'm not sure which you're talking about. As far as I know, they made the LCP, LCP Custom, and now the LCP II.
> 
> I own both an LCP and an LCP II. IMO, the LCP II beats the original hands down. It's actually a single action internal hammer pistol but acts similar to a striker fired model. The original was DAO. The new model has a beefier grip and easier to rack slide as well as better sights. The new trigger is far superior in my opinion and actually usable.
> 
> As far as reliability is concerned, both my LCPs have been flawless. I can run a mixed batch of FMJ, HP, reloads, and flying ashtrays with no failures to date. I find it amazing they run most anything. I admit I don't have a high round count through them, maybe 500 or so rounds because they are just not fun to shoot.


They released a 2nd Gen LCP - but it was still called the LCP. Trigger got better and the sights got a little bigger. It is not the LCP custom or the LCP 2. I haven't tried the LCP 2 - but it is striker fired, I think. I am not sure I would like it, depending on the weight of the trigger. I like the heavier trigger on the LCP.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

Shipwreck said:


> I had a Kahr PM9, once upon a time. But, not a huge fan. It did work, I just like DA/SA more.
> 
> I used a Glock 17 for competition shooting a few years ago. But when I stopped, I sold the gun.
> 
> ...


I have a STI Spartan in 9mm...Sweet shooter but a hair to bulky for me to carry.
It is about the cheapest model made by STI and i believe they no longer offer them.


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> He was joking.
> 
> Lighten up a little, please.


I had a very good laugh at it.
Thank yoou kaboom99!


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Shipwreck said:


> They released a 2nd Gen LCP - but it was still called the LCP. Trigger got better and the sights got a little bigger. It is not the LCP custom or the LCP 2. I haven't tried the LCP 2 - but it is striker fired, I think. I am not sure I would like it, depending on the weight of the trigger. I like the heavier trigger on the LCP.


Oh, I didn't know there was a Gen 2 of the LCP. I know the sights got larger on the Custom and the trigger was better and painted red. I do now. I looked it up. The LCP Gen 2 was made from 2013 onward.

The LCP II is not striker fired, IMO. You can see the hammer in the back of the slide. When you dry fire it, that hammer flies down, or so it seems. It's fully cocked when you rack the slide. Though the trigger is a little lighter, it's not much, but it is a heck of a lot nicer. It's smooth and crisp, comparatively. I think you'd have no issues with it. There's still plenty of pull before the wall. I can't imagine anyone accidentally firing it anymore than a Colt revolver. I say Colt instead of Smith because it stacks a little in the pull to me. Anyway, I call the LCP II single action hammer fired, but with plenty of pull. In other words, it acts like a good 2 stage trigger on a defensive gun ought to.

Also, the slide stays open on the last round which is nice.

*This is what Ruger says about the LCP II:*
_"Safety features include bladed trigger safety; neutrally balanced sear with significant engagement and strong spring tension; and hammer catch to help prevent the hammer from contacting the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled." _

https://ruger.com/products/lcpII/models.html

In the video at the bottom of this page, Ruger calls it "Single Action" as well.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> He was joking.
> 
> Lighten up a little, please.


Yeah, you're probably right. Sometimes I take things too literally. Especially when it's from someone I've never corresponded with before.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Craigh said:


> Oh, I didn't know there was a Gen 2 of the LCP. I know the sights got larger on the Custom and the trigger was better and painted red. I do now. I looked it up. The LCP Gen 2 was made from 2013 onward.
> 
> The LCP II is not striker fired, IMO. You can see the hammer in the back of the slide. When you dry fire it, that hammer flies down, or so it seems. It's fully cocked when you rack the slide. Though the trigger is a little lighter, it's not much, but it is a heck of a lot nicer. It's smooth and crisp, comparatively. I think you'd have no issues with it. There's still plenty of pull before the wall. I can't imagine anyone accidentally firing it anymore than a Colt revolver. I say Colt instead of Smith because it stacks a little in the pull to me. Anyway, I call the LCP II single action hammer fired, but with plenty of pull. In other words, it acts like a good 2 stage trigger on a defensive gun ought to.
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks for the info. I thought it was striker fired.

I would have bought the one with the red trigger, but it was not out yet at the time.


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## Dogalmighty (Jul 2, 2018)

Not a brand suggestion but a comment on pocket carry caliber: when I bought my .380 a buddy of mine scoffed and said “no way a .380 would stop me. A .380 would just piss me off.”. So I went and got it (unloaded of course) and handed it to him. I said I tellya what; I’ll go get a loaded magazine and we’ll go out to the gravel pit. You can stand there and let me put 5 in your chest and then go ahead and tell me if you’re pissed off or not. Of course he politely declined muttering something about his wife and laundry, and getting blood on his shirt. I see a lot of discussion about.380 vs 9mm and the truth is that the .380 was designed specifically for pocket carry. You’re probably not going to have a target beyond 3 yards for a pocket gun and an attacker will definitely react to being shot with a .380 just as if it was a 9mm.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I practice with my LCP at 5 and 7 yards all the time.


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## guns4activists (Sep 19, 2018)

The Remington shoots relatively well but I was not a huge fan of the trigger. It is more of a personal preference but I like something with a lighter trigger pull. I love the Kahr CW 380 when it comes to size, weight, and functionality for a pocket gun. You just have to be sure to have the right ammo since it does not cycle every type of ammo well.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

The LCP / 2 is pretty much the reigning king of pocket pistols.

I don't trust Remington to make a decent handgun when they can barely make a decent shotgun these days. Most of their handguns have been huge flops.

The Springfield is just another cocked and locked knock of if the Colt Mustang which was pretty much a copy of the old Starr.

The likes of the Mustang, Sig P238, Kimber whatchyamacall it and now the Springfield make for poor pocket guns die to the cocked hammer, they can pick up a LOT of crud in between the hammer and the firing pin....

The LCP 2 does a little better as that space is more enclosed but still has a little opening...



To be continued...



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bambam (Jul 14, 2006)

Very, very, hard to beat the Sig P-238 for a mouse gun. Racks easily and smoothly. Very accurate. My hands down favorite of all the .380s.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

bambam said:


> Very, very, hard to beat the Sig P-238 for a mouse gun. Racks easily and smoothly. Very accurate. My hands down favorite of all the .380s.


I have to disagree on the P238. Have not had good success with several and have seen more than one self disassemble during classes.

They are definitely easy to rack (most guns aren't that hard) and they are accurate as they were right in putting good sights on it. But it does not meet across the board relatability, same goes for the 938.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Charles C (Jun 16, 2019)

I was at a gun show and picked up an NOS Colt Mk iv/series 80 Mustang 380, all stainless. In box, extra mag, the serial number verifies to 1994. I simply couldn’t walk away. Now...

It has the standard black grips, plastic, I assume. Who would you turn to for some nice rosewood grips? Also, anyone know of an extended magazine with a finger hook, probably a 7 round? It is just so small, and even my bodyguard 380 has a little hook on the bottom to give you that pinch of a better grip... what is available?

Thanks, folks; I’m new here.


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## DOUBLESHOT (Aug 19, 2018)

I bought the Sig P365 w/manual safety about a week and a half ago. I have fired 400 rounds so far in two sessions. No problems and it is not only shootable but also pocketable. 10+1 rounds of 9mm and I'm good to go...... If only I lived in a free state!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Charles C said:


> ...Who would you turn to for some nice rosewood grips? Also, anyone know of an extended magazine with a finger hook, probably a 7 round?...


Hmmm...
Maybe try Altamont for grips.
Click on: https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/colt/mustang/

It would be pretty easy to add a screwed-on, bent-metal, pinky-finger-hook extension to the bottom of a magazine. It would be just a little more difficult to add a screwed-on, shaped wooden extension (to match your new grips).
If it's not a job you'd feel comfortable doing, any decent gunsmith could do it for you. But extension magazines (more shots) might be hard to find.

Bear in mind that adding a finger-grip extension, or an extended magazine, will make the pistol much more difficult to conceal.
It is the handle, the grip section, of a pistol that is hard to hide. A long barrel just dives somewhat deeper into your pants, but the grip always sticks out.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Grips and magazines? Have you tried eBay? 



Sam


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## Charles C (Jun 16, 2019)

“It is the handle, the grip section, of a pistol that is hard to hide. A long barrel just dives somewhat deeper into your pants, but the grip always sticks out.”

That is a fact; I carry a p938 most of the time, and although it has both a 6 and an extended 7, I usually end up carrying it with the 6. If there’s any reason to be extra ready, I can always carry the loaded 7 mag in a separate pocket... by the time you’re reloading, concealability isn’t as much of a concern anymore ;-)


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## Pandaz3 (Aug 23, 2018)

The Colt Mustang, Sig P238, Springfield 911 are all great, kind of pricey guns, but they are not mini-1911's like many think. You can rack the slide with the safety on, can't do that with a 1911.

I own a full dozen pocket 380's including most pocket 380's in this thread, I have a Mustang and 911, think the 911 is the finest hammer fired. I carry a LCP II more frequently as a hammer fired gun


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Pandaz3 said:


> The Colt Mustang, Sig P238, Springfield 911 are all great, kind of pricey guns, but they are not mini-1911's like many think. You can rack the slide with the safety on, can't do that with a 1911...


...And they all have pivoting, not sliding, triggers.
And external extractors, too.
And no grip safeties.

All three of them are based upon, and are almost copies of, a Spanish pistol, the Star Model BM, designed and made by Star Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A., of Eibar (a predominantly-Basque city).


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## bertha01 (Sep 21, 2018)

I have the Sig P238 and its very nicely


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## Dubar (Sep 8, 2019)

I've a Bersa Thunder 380 Combat and a 380 Plus, along with a Taurus 709 Slim (9mm).

They're all basically the same overall size, with the Plus a bit thicker in the grip (double stack), 709 is the slimmest of the 3. I can carry the Combat and the 709 in my pocket holster, the Plus is just too thick. They all make a good OWB pistol.

You can add the Beretta Model 81 32ACP, again about the same size. I even have a Bersa Thunder 22 (same size) and would carry that in a pinch.

These all fit well in my hand.


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## Pandaz3 (Aug 23, 2018)

Someone mentioned racking, the easiest that I currently have (I might have a Shield 380EZ on order) is a Remington RM-380, a decent all metal frame gun with a light, smooth, but very long trigger pull. Shoots any kind of ammo. Usable, but pretty mediocre sights, trigger pull too long for me to really like it, but still a good reliable gun and many like a longer trigger pull on a pocket gun. The accuracy for me is mediocre too due to the sights and trigger. How accurate does it need to be, I think it is okay just not as good as some others but suitable.
At the other end of the racking spectrum is my smallest 380, a Kahr CW-380. The hardest to rack that I own. It is also very picky with ammo including hardball, I find all my guns shoot PMC FMJ (Hardball to me) or XTP based JHP (I use Underwood) with ammo it likes it is very reliable, has two dot sights that work well and is nearly my most accurate pocket 380. (My 911 is most accurate for me). I like the Kahr, but it's not for everyone.
The G-42 is my biggest pocket 380 and it is accurate and easy to use, easy to recommend.
My LCP's the regular works kicks hard, The Custom with great sights and that more comfortable (Wider) red anodized trigger, it is easier to be more accurate, still kicks terrible. I use a Hogue Handsall sleeve on mine, that makes it twice as fat but more comfortable to hold and shoot. LCP II also benefits from the Hogue Handsall. sights are not as good as Custom, but better than regular, Trigger is great to me. I carry the Custom, LCP II, or 1911 around the most.
I have more, but they stay on the shelf.
Oh the new Taurus Spectrum is good, not bad to rack, small sights, reliable.


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## Dubar (Sep 8, 2019)

The Beretta model 81 was hard to rack until I fired it the other day. I'm wondering if it had ever been fired when in Italian Police hands? The outside of the gun looked holster worn but the bore looked very clean.


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## Brazos Dan (Aug 10, 2019)

I've carried a Keltec .380, S&W Bodyguard and, decades ago, a Walther PP and later, a PPKS.

I currently carry a Sig P238 and prefer it to the others. It has been totally reliable and amazingly accurate. The only one of those mentioned above that was as or more accurate was the imported PP.

As very old fart, I cut my teeth on 1911's and my thumb naturally falls on the safety when I draw, so a properly placed safety is no issue.

All this being said, 90% of the time, I carry something more meaningful such as my VP9 or HK P 30 in .40.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Dubar said:


> The Beretta model 81 was hard to rack until I fired it the other day. I'm wondering if it had ever been fired when in Italian Police hands? The outside of the gun looked holster worn but the bore looked very clean.


I would lube the crap out of the gun. 
They may have interchanged many slides to other frames on older surplus guns.


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## lapetrarca53 (Aug 27, 2012)

Gotta' say, so far I'm lovin' my SCCY CPX-3. I have the M&P 380 EZ as well and the SCCY isn't much harder to rack. Very well made and very accurate. The downside for some is they're DAO.


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## Dubar (Sep 8, 2019)

pic said:


> I would lube the crap out of the gun.
> They may have interchanged many slides to other frames on older surplus guns.


Good idea, I don't recall seeing any markings on the slide or frame to let me know they're matched. It is running smoother now that I've shot it.


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