# Black Bear Ammo revisited



## shaolin

I am going camping again and I am only allowed to take handguns with me. I have a Ruger GP100 .357mag that I load with 180 grain HP Partition. The only other round that I can see working is the 158 gr L-Flat Cowboy Action Load that I currently have. For this gun what ammo should I use to defend against the black bear the biggest being 200lbs or less.
I just ordered the Underwood Xtreme Penetrating round for the 9mm 40S&W and a 200gr load for the 45acp. Would any of these work on a black bear and if so which caliber.
I find the .357 hard to handle so I never went and got a .41 or .44 mag but I plan on getting one once I save up some money. That ammo ban proposal made me spend way too much money. 

Keep in mind my first defense is Bear Spray that goes 35 ft. but if I am in a tent and he comes sniffing around I plan on shooting it through the tent.


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## Glock37

shaolin said:


> I am going camping again and I am only allowed to take handguns with me. I have a Ruger GP100 .357mag that I load with 180 grain HP Partition. The only other round that I can see working is the 158 gr L-Flat Cowboy Action Load that I currently have. For this gun what ammo should I use to defend against the black bear the biggest being 200lbs or less.
> I just ordered the Underwood Xtreme Penetrating round for the 9mm 40S&W and a 200gr load for the 45acp. Would any of these work on a black bear and if so which caliber.
> I find the .357 hard to handle so I never went and got a .41 or .44 mag but I plan on getting one once I save up some money. That ammo ban proposal made me spend way too much money.
> 
> Keep in mind my first defense is Bear Spray that goes 35 ft. but if I am in a tent and he comes sniffing around I plan on shooting it through the tent.


What "authority" is that's doing the allowing? I've never seen selective firearm restrictions for camping anywhere. It's either no guns of any sort or no restrictions. When I lived in the pacNW there were so many bears in the mountains I quickly realized a pistol of any sort was not smart to carry, so the 12 with slugs was used. Once you have a couple up close meetings you will draw the same conclusion. You will not want a pistol or revolver of any caliber. It will feel weak for the situation, and it will be. That being said a neighbor successfully defended himself against a black bear with a HK USP in 40 and 180 grain ball. He literally shot it in its open mouth. Took the fight right out of it.

I'd check them regulations again. If it's an imposed limit by yourself not wanting to look safe while camping or a family member or fellow camper. Ignore their wishes. Better safe than sorry and if you are asking the question, then you'll feel pretty sorry of you don't properly prepare for bear defense. My wife told me the same thing once. I packed it anyway and sitting around the fire at night and the sound of bears all around wanting our food, the wife was glad imignored her.

That bear spray is awesome stuff. The sound it makes spraying will scare them off 90% of the time. And if they are up wind, all it's going to do is blind you and season their next meal.


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## denner

If I was limited to your choices it would be "Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 180 gr. Hard Cast LFN-GC (1,400fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.) from Buffalo Bore". Or DoubleTap 357 Magnum 200gr Hardcast Solid. While the Partition is a very well constructed bullet I'd forego any hollow points. A 180 to 200 grain partition in 30-06 would be a different story.


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## shootbrownelk

Take along a 12 gauge filled with slugs and sleep peacefully with your hand upon it.


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## shaolin

I am hiking the AT for 70 miles through the Smokey Mountain National Park. I have a CCW and I can't take a rifle or shotgun hiking through the park and it not practical to either for that distance. I can carry a pistol and I bought some of the Extreme Penetrator Bullets from Underwood using the Lehigh all copper bullet. The 9mm gets like 48 inches of penetration but I think I will take the 40 or 45acp to have greater use against 2 legged varmints yet have the depth needed to injure or kill a black bear. I hope the wind is not blowing 30mph and puts the spray in my face but I will take some anyways just in case.


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## CW

Wild pig is another critter to be mindful on the southern AT. In PA, State game law requires a revolver [manual action] for a game animal. Not too sure, but other states may have similar laws.

Obvioulsy, self-defense is its own issue and .357 is a good choice, but you might try .327 for good energy and less pounding on the hand.

Just remember to keep the food out of your tent, (hang in tree) and even a curious bear will most likely pass you by.

I do agree, nothing quite like a slug gun. You can get attachments to shrink it down for easier carry. Are you sure you cannot pack one for defensive purposes?


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## Goldwing

shaolin said:


> I am going camping again and I am only allowed to take handguns with me. I have a Ruger GP100 .357mag that I load with 180 grain HP Partition. The only other round that I can see working is the 158 gr L-Flat Cowboy Action Load that I currently have. For this gun what ammo should I use to defend against the black bear the biggest being 200lbs or less.
> I just ordered the Underwood Xtreme Penetrating round for the 9mm 40S&W and a 200gr load for the 45acp. Would any of these work on a black bear and if so which caliber.
> *I find the .357 hard to handle so I never went and got a .41 or .44 mag but I plan on getting one once I save up some money.* That ammo ban proposal made me spend way too much money.
> 
> Keep in mind my first defense is Bear Spray that goes 35 ft. but if I am in a tent and he comes sniffing around I plan on shooting it through the tent.


I have found that the .44 mag is a much more comfortable shooting gun than the .357 in general. The recoil is more of a shove than it is a snap of the .357. You might

check out a trade up to the .44 from the .357 to solve your bear worries.

GW

P.S. I wouldn't recommend taking a blind shot at a sniffing bear with a less than lethal round. If he's coming in that's another story.


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## Scorpion8

For the .357 Magnum, either the Buffalo Bore heavy load or if you can find some Alaska Backpacker (usually an 18-pack) hard cast loads they are very, very good. I regularly carry a .357 GP-100 in the black bear woods and feel comfortable.


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## shaolin

The thing that most scared me was one night I was sleeping in my Hennessy Hammock and I smelled a foul breath about 4am in the morning. The only gun I had was my 9mm loaded with HST at the time and I though that this was too light to just shooting him with unless I needed to. I was scared but waited and the critter left me alone. Someone once told me it might have been a big cat sniffing around but it was so dark I couldn't see 1ft in front of me. From now on I want a bullet that travels deeper into bone and grit when I am in the woods. If a man attacks me then I hope a few holes and a good set of legs can get me away from the fight. Most of the time hikers are nice people and very rarely do they bother someone else and the bears are not aggressive either for the most part but if I become lunch then I at least want to give it some lead with it's meal.
Good advice on the shove over the snap of a pistol. I like the 45acp over the 40S&W for this reason. I am in the process of looking for a 10mm G29 and next month I might be able to get one if I can find a dealer that gives 1st responder discounts in the N. GA area.


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## Scorpion8

If you're going to carry a .45, alternate FMJ and hollow-point loads. The FMJ loads penetrate deeper, but make small holes. The hollow-points make bigger holes, but don't penetrate as far. If you need to use it on a 4- or 2- legged critter, then aim as best you can and keep pulling the trigger. Since no two bullets will go in the same place, you'll want to poke as many owie-holes as you can in the hopes of deterring whatever it is. Lots of folks think everyone should have a 44 Magnum in the woods, but it's a hard gun to control well and you usually only get six slow shots in a SAA-type Blackhawk or Redhawk or 'Smith.


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## CW

Strangely, for all the bullet penetration issues I've read about,

I still ponder the fact that when we put cattle down for butchering, a .22lr was used. Make an x eye to horn. One shot - done.

Now a rushing raging animal is a different thing all together, and those wild cattle down in Texas would require something in the .50 BMG range,
but it does speak loud about shot placement.


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## berettatoter

I can't imagine a .357 Magnum, not slowing a Black Bear down. Brown Bear? Not so much.


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## Sierra_Hunter

shaolin said:


> I am going camping again and I am only allowed to take handguns with me. I have a Ruger GP100 .357mag that I load with 180 grain HP Partition. The only other round that I can see working is the 158 gr L-Flat Cowboy Action Load that I currently have. For this gun what ammo should I use to defend against the black bear the biggest being 200lbs or less.
> I just ordered the Underwood Xtreme Penetrating round for the 9mm 40S&W and a 200gr load for the 45acp. Would any of these work on a black bear and if so which caliber.
> I find the .357 hard to handle so I never went and got a .41 or .44 mag but I plan on getting one once I save up some money. That ammo ban proposal made me spend way too much money.
> 
> Keep in mind my first defense is Bear Spray that goes 35 ft. but if I am in a tent and he comes sniffing around I plan on shooting it through the tent.


none of those would be my first choice, although I do have other options.

When I used to carry a Ruger security six 357 in bear country, I loaded it with a 200 gn cast lead bullet cast at about 15bhn, loaded over a stiff load of Alliant steel. I loaded them in 38 special cases because the short case allowed me to crimp the rather long bullet in the crimp groove, and since recoil was rather heavy for a 357 bullets tended to jump out of the cases if not crimped.

I never shot a bear with the load, but shooting at other stuff, this load had the best penetration out of anything I tried in that gun.


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## Sierra_Hunter

Glock37 said:


> What "authority" is that's doing the allowing? I've never seen selective firearm restrictions for camping anywhere. It's either no guns of any sort or no restrictions. When I lived in the pacNW there were so many bears in the mountains I quickly realized a pistol of any sort was not smart to carry, so the 12 with slugs was used. Once you have a couple up close meetings you will draw the same conclusion. You will not want a pistol or revolver of any caliber. It will feel weak for the situation, and it will be. That being said a neighbor successfully defended himself against a black bear with a HK USP in 40 and 180 grain ball. He literally shot it in its open mouth. Took the fight right out of it.
> 
> I'd check them regulations again. If it's an imposed limit by yourself not wanting to look safe while camping or a family member or fellow camper. Ignore their wishes. Better safe than sorry and if you are asking the question, then you'll feel pretty sorry of you don't properly prepare for bear defense. My wife told me the same thing once. I packed it anyway and sitting around the fire at night and the sound of bears all around wanting our food, the wife was glad imignored her.
> 
> That bear spray is awesome stuff. The sound it makes spraying will scare them off 90% of the time. And if they are up wind, all it's going to do is blind you and season their next meal.


Have you ever fired a 12ga slug into a sand bank? That is honestly about the worst thing you can carry. Sure it makes a big hole, but the 12ga is a very low pressure round, so does not get the best penetration. I would rather have a 1911 then a shotgun in bear country.


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## Sierra_Hunter

shaolin said:


> I am hiking the AT for 70 miles through the Smokey Mountain National Park. I have a CCW and I can't take a rifle or shotgun hiking through the park and it not practical to either for that distance. I can carry a pistol and I bought some of the Extreme Penetrator Bullets from Underwood using the Lehigh all copper bullet. The 9mm gets like 48 inches of penetration but I think I will take the 40 or 45acp to have greater use against 2 legged varmints yet have the depth needed to injure or kill a black bear. I hope the wind is not blowing 30mph and puts the spray in my face but I will take some anyways just in case.


I might be looking for a new place to go hiking.


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