# Time for a project



## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Well our men's softball league is still a couple of month's away. Once evening come on the weekends and th ewife just wants to lay around the house I get bored watching movies and playing video games. I have decided that I may try a project I have been contemplating for awhile. 

I had been wanting a shoulder harness for the days it was cold and I would be wearing a jacket alot. But I don't want to go over to say like the in-laws and take my jacket off and then take my shoulder harness off also. What I was thinking was getting a cheap shoulder holster and a cheap but decent jacket and trying to sow the shoulder harness to the inside of the jacket so it comes off when you take your jacket off. I was also thinking of if say the wife and I went out to eat and I wanted to take the jacket off I could also have the harness come off with it and slide back on just as easy. Now I know they make jackets with the pockets that will hold a gun. But the ones I have seen printed really bad.

My only real concerns is find a good thread that matches the jacket (thinking black jacket, black thread) and making the stitching clean. Also make sure that the shoulder harness is in the right spot. My aunt had some fabric glue that when dried with other fabric you couldn't pull it apart. And that is with alot of pressure. I have thought about asking her to get some as I think it was some kind of industrial strength and putting using it to attach the harness to the jacket. Or both a glue and stitches.

Just wondering what the opinions were, maybe someone had some experience doing something close to this. I know if it is leather I will have a harder time so for now I am just sticking with the fabric type holster. Is this good to go or just a stupid idea?


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

they make jackets and vests with built in pockets/holsters to do what youre are looking to do.....why not just buy one of them instead?:mrgreen:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

First of all, fabric holsters do not work well.
Second, there is no such thing as an "invisible fabric glue." They all show through the fabric.

Adding a holster to a jacket is not as simple as it seems.
You have already noted the need to put the pouch in exactly the right place within the jacket. That's a lot more difficult than you think it is.
When you are carrying a loaded weapon in such a rig, the pistol's weight will unbalance the jacket, and you will look like either _The Hunchback of Notre Dame_ or Marty Feldman in _Young Frankenstein_.
If you sew right through the pouch and the jacket, even if you closely match the thread's color to that of the jacket, the stitching will still be quite visible and the gun will still "print."

Not all purpose-designed, gun-pocket jackets "print." But jackets which carry the weight properly and which do not "print" are expensive. (Look at Coronado Leather, for examples.)

The jacket idea is _not_ a good one. Off-the-body carry is _not_ a good idea. Putting your gun down somewhere is _not_ a good idea.
If you are carrying your pistol in a jacket pocket, that jacket should remain on your body at all times.
If you are carrying in a shoulder rig, that shoulder rig should remain on your body at all times.

If you carry a pistol in a well-made shoulder holster, it will move with your body and not reveal itself by "printing" through the covering jacket.
Poorly-made and badly-adjusted shoulder holsters will "print," and also will make smooth, quick presentations very difficult.
(Presenting from a shoulder holster is already difficult enough to do. Why make it worse?)


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

um, i wear a "pistol pete" jacket when i ride , nice built in gun pocket.... heavy heavy leather so there no hunch back issues..... altho unless you are on or at least near a bike, you will look like a circus clown....


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Coronado Leather makes "ordinary-looking" leather jackets, something like suit jackets and car coats.
They build the pistol pocket into the lining, I think, so the exterior of the jacket "drapes" properly.

(But I am still dead-set against such off-body carry anyway. YMMV.)


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Coronado Leather makes "ordinary-looking" leather jackets, something like suit jackets and car coats.
> They build the pistol pocket into the lining, I think, so the exterior of the jacket "drapes" properly.
> 
> (But I am still dead-set against such off-body carry anyway. YMMV.)


i agree, when i ride, its in my jacket, when i stop, its in the holster....unless its too warm for the jacket... then its OC


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

scooter said:


> they make jackets and vests with built in pockets/holsters to do what youre are looking to do.....why not just buy one of them instead?:mrgreen:





> Now I know they make jackets with the pockets that will hold a gun. But the ones I have seen printed really bad.


Like I said earlier. I have yet to find a jacket that will not print when a gun is in there. And besides I don't know anyone that wears vests. So I really, really don't want to stand out.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> First of all, fabric holsters do not work well.
> Second, there is no such thing as an "invisible fabric glue." They all show through the fabric.


I will have to talk to my aunt. She uses the stuff and I have never heard of seen it bleed through. Also I was thinking more along the lines of a Carhart jacket. If the fabric glue bleeds through something isn't right. Of course I might be completely wrong



> Adding a holster to a jacket is not as simple as it seems.
> You have already noted the need to put the pouch in exactly the right place within the jacket. That's a lot more difficult than you think it is.
> When you are carrying a loaded weapon in such a rig, the pistol's weight will unbalance the jacket, and you will look like either _The Hunchback of Notre Dame_ or Marty Feldman in _Young Frankenstein_.
> If you sew right through the pouch and the jacket, even if you closely match the thread's color to that of the jacket, the stitching will still be quite visible and the gun will still "print."


I already know it isn't going to be simple. I don't think it will unbalance a jacket anymore than a pistol in the inside the pocket of a "gun jacket". At least I don't think. Just wondering with the ones the adjust if you could compensate. like I said this is just an idea. More or less something to pass time either while thinking about it at work or just to goof off with at the house. I figured brown would be hard to match. I know my wife's black carhart jacket along with the black thread i bought to fix my work pants are exactly the same color. Unless you get up real close i don't believe it will be that noticeable unless you are looking for it (depending on how it is sown). As far as printing I would think that with it being a shoulder harness it would be more under the arm instead of near the zipper of the jacket's with the hidden gun pocket.



> Not all purpose-designed, gun-pocket jackets "print." But jackets which carry the weight properly and which do not "print" are expensive. (Look at Coronado Leather, for examples.)


I will check into those thank you. I am wanting more of a work jacket similar to something like a carhart. Not like a dress or sports jacket. Do you know or have seen any others that don't print especially when zipped up.



> The jacket idea is _not_ a good one. Off-the-body carry is _not_ a good idea. Putting your gun down somewhere is _not_ a good idea.
> If you are carrying your pistol in a jacket pocket, that jacket should remain on your body at all times.
> If you are carrying in a shoulder rig, that shoulder rig should remain on your body at all times.


Like I said this is just mainly a fun little project I thought about trying. Mostly it would be for say going to my mom's house. She is terrified of guns. This way I can remove it without her really seeing it and worrying about it. I don't like to leave it on my hip because sometimes my nephew is over there and I take it off my hip and don't want to leave a empty holster on when this way was simplier. Same with my mother in laws or my grandmother's house. I do see what you are saying though. And I agree to a point. You could take the jacket off and move it to where you could access your gun (well easier for me because my wife and I always sit at a booth. Though I guess a table would be better.



> If you carry a pistol in a well-made shoulder holster, it will move with your body and not reveal itself by "printing" through the covering jacket.
> Poorly-made and badly-adjusted shoulder holsters will "print," and also will make smooth, quick presentations very difficult.
> (Presenting from a shoulder holster is already difficult enough to do. Why make it worse?)


Like I said the whole point was to remove the jacket without revealing the shoulder holster. At least that was the original idea. Even though open carry is legal here I think it would be kind of awkward to walk into a resturant take off your jacket and have a gun hanging out of a shoulder holster.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Coronado Leather makes "ordinary-looking" leather jackets, something like suit jackets and car coats.
> They build the pistol pocket into the lining, I think, so the exterior of the jacket "drapes" properly.
> 
> (But I am still dead-set against such off-body carry anyway. YMMV.)


What is YMMV I haven't heard that before? I am getting ready to google that jacket and see what I come up with. What are your reasons that you are so dead set against off the body carry as long as the gun is accessible rather easily and quick.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

Your Mileage May Vary....YMMV


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

They make undershirts that function as shoulder rigs. That might work.

What kind of gun are you carrying?

I carry a gun in my front pocket and another on my ankle. The two guns mean I have easy access both standing and seated. It also precludes the need to carry extra ammo. (I would use a New York re-load, i.e. switch weapons).


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Brevard13 said:


> ...What are your reasons that you are so dead set against off the body carry...?


There are a couple of them.
They all center around the most important issue, which is that _you must never lose control of your gun_.

You mentioned a nephew. How old is he? Is he absolutely gun safe?
Suppose you took your gun-loaded jacket off and hung it up nearby. Suppose your nephew got curious, or was made curious when he accidentally brushed up against your hanging jacket and felt something hard and heavy inside it. Suppose his curiosity got the better of him, and he went exploring.
The next thing you hear might be, "Hey, Brevard, what's this?" as he waves your pistol around. Much worse, the next thing you might hear is "BANG!" What would your mother say then?

You are out to dinner. You absolutely need to use the, um, rest room. In order to sit down comfortably, you remove your jacket and hang it on the hook of the stall's door. Ahhh...That's better.
When you're done, you carefully wash your hands, and then you go back to your table. And then you realize that you're not wearing your jacket. Whoops!
You rush back to the, um, rest room, and just as you walk in you hear "BANG!"
(Don't believe me? Jean once left her purse in an airport toilet stall, and only remembered it when we were aloft and on our way. And that was back when she was only 40 years old, so we can't blame senility. Yes, we got it back intact, via FedEx, because someone was extremely honest.)

Shall I go on?


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I also believe that on-body carry is much preferred. Even women who carry purses almost every day of their lives occasionally lose a pocket book. A guy with less experience in these matters would be more vulnerable.

Perhaps it is the choice of weapons that is causing the issue. A 1911 may be an excellent weapon (I've owned several, and it is) but it would not be my first choice for descrete carry. 

I carry a Glock 27 which hides well, and a S & W 340 PD which hides very well. If you are willing to carry a lesser caliber there are even more discrete weapons.

What are you carrying?


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Packard said:


> They make undershirts that function as shoulder rigs. That might work.
> 
> What kind of gun are you carrying?
> 
> I carry a gun in my front pocket and another on my ankle. The two guns mean I have easy access both standing and seated. It also precludes the need to carry extra ammo. (I would use a New York re-load, i.e. switch weapons).


I have a M&P. The biggest thing is I don't want to be wrestling around with my nephew and it fall out of something. If I don't lock it up in the nano vault in the car, I usually go into my parent's house take the belt and holster and gun off and put it on top of the fridge. But it would be so much easier to take it off and hang it in their hall closet.



Steve M1911A1 said:


> There are a couple of them.
> They all center around the most important issue, which is that _you must never lose control of your gun_.
> 
> *Just wondering how you would lose control over it? I am trying to picture it in my head, but I don't think we are thinking of the same thing*.
> ...





Packard said:


> I also believe that on-body carry is much preferred. Even women who carry purses almost every day of their lives occasionally lose a pocket book. A guy with less experience in these matters would be more vulnerable.
> 
> Perhaps it is the choice of weapons that is causing the issue. A 1911 may be an excellent weapon (I've owned several, and it is) but it would not be my first choice for descrete carry.
> 
> ...


Normally I carry a M&P .40 compact in a ntac holster. I was actually thinking about the times I dont want to wear a belt much less a holster and everything. That and when I want to carry my full sized M&P


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Lose Control Of Your Gun:* It is away from your immediate control, such that someone else could assume control over it before you could stop him/her/it/them.

*Nephews:* Children of three have been known to kill children of two, but usually it's with daddy's gun, not uncle's. If it's in a child-safe closet and outside of your control (see above), it is at risk of being "investigated" by a curious child because _there is no such thing as a child-safe closet_. Believe me. I have helped raise two children, and I know whereof I speak (write). Even during roughhouse play, it's better on your person, so that you are in complete control of it.

*Leaving Your Jacket and Gun at a Restaurant Table:* If the person who is monitoring your gun (and jacket) knows that it's there, knows gun safety, and is completely responsible, then you have transferred control of your gun to that person, who is now responsible for it. That person should hold your gun-toting jacket in hand until you return. Leaving it on a chair or banquette means that nobody is in control of it. A curious child could access it, or it could be knocked off the surface to make a loud noise contacting the floor, or it could be snatched (since wallets are often in jackets). Further, the person to whom you entrust control of your pistol should have a concealed-weapon license, since it is a concealed weapon in that person's hands.

*What I Do in a Public Toilet:* Mostly I pocket carry, which requires no special handling. Since I am just as fastidious as you, I rarely sit. But when I do, when I am carrying a pistol on my belt, the pistol nestles in the "ballroom" of my underpants until I am ready to rise anew from my labors.

Was that enough reading material?


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Lose Control Of Your Gun:* It is away from your immediate control, such that someone else could assume control over it before you could stop him/her/it/them.


Ok we were on the same page. I'm still thinking along the lines of if the harness is sown into the jacket then the only way someone will gret control of the gun is to reach in my jacket or take my jacket. Anytime you carry though there is a risk you could lose your gun concealed, or not. It all falls under that what if situation I do believe.



> *Nephews:* Children of three have been known to kill children of two, but usually it's with daddy's gun, not uncle's. If it's in a child-safe closet and outside of your control (see above), it is at risk of being "investigated" by a curious child because _there is no such thing as a child-safe closet_. Believe me. I have helped raise two children, and I know whereof I speak (write). Even during roughhouse play, it's better on your person, so that you are in complete control of it.


As of right now that isn't a possibility because the 3 year old's hand is too small to get both of the ball parts squeezed together and still be able to turn it. Now of course that will soon be over with, but as of now he is too busy playing cars, and wrestling with me and the doberman to really go get curious. He has always been good about staying in the living room with everyone. Of course all he knows that are in that closet are cleaning supplies and winter coats so as of now he seems to not have the desire to try to get in there. Of course my mom tol dhim if he opened it he was going to clean, zip right back in the living room playing with Batman toys.

I do agree that once they get to a certain age you have to be more careful. For instance once he learns to work the doorknob cover then it will be time for something else. I am now considering buying a leather holster that has a slot cut out right behind the trigger so you can put a padlock through it and keep the gun from getting accessed.












> *Leaving Your Jacket and Gun at a Restaurant Table:* If the person who is monitoring your gun (and jacket) knows that it's there, knows gun safety, and is completely responsible, then you have transferred control of your gun to that person, who is now responsible for it. That person should hold your gun-toting jacket in hand until you return. Leaving it on a chair or banquette means that nobody is in control of it. A curious child could access it, or it could be knocked off the surface to make a loud noise contacting the floor, or it could be snatched (since wallets are often in jackets). Further, the person to whom you entrust control of your pistol should have a concealed-weapon license, since it is a concealed weapon in that person's hands.


Usually that is up to my wife, but like I said earlier we are usually in a booth and it gets pushed toward the inside of the booth which would be between me and the wall. Now it still sounds like you are talking about like suit or dinner jackets. I am talking about the big leather type working jackets like the carhart and stuff. Only reason I say that is because, I don't know anyone that carries their wallet in their jacket unless they don't have pants pockets. I'm just a goofy ole ******* fancy for me and the wife is like Olive garden, Outback, etc. Now in all honesty I would have never thought about someone snatching a jacket because a wallet was in it. Guess that is because I have always seen it in someone's back pocket.



> *What I Do in a Public Toilet:* Mostly I pocket carry, which requires no special handling. Since I am just as fastidious as you, I rarely sit. But when I do, when I am carrying a pistol on my belt, the pistol nestles in the "ballroom" of my underpants until I am ready to rise anew from my labors.
> 
> Was that enough reading material?


You must carry a small pistol then. That is where I put mine when I do have to sit down in the bathroom. Just curious as to if I was the only one to do that.

It was an ok amount of reading material. 6 hrs a night spent staring at security camera monitor gets boring...especially when nothing ever goes on. Now don't get me wrong I love not having nothing to do except walk and check doors and gates but the camers make my eyes hurt.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Brevard13 said:


> Ok we were on the same page. I'm still thinking along the lines of if the harness is sown into the jacket then the only way someone will gret control of the gun is to reach in my jacket or take my jacket. Anytime you carry though there is a risk you could lose your gun concealed, or not. It all falls under that what if situation I do believe.
> 
> As of right now that isn't a possibility because the 3 year old's hand is too small to get both of the ball parts squeezed together and still be able to turn it. Now of course that will soon be over with, but as of now he is too busy playing cars, and wrestling with me and the doberman to really go get curious. He has always been good about staying in the living room with everyone. Of course all he knows that are in that closet are cleaning supplies and winter coats so as of now he seems to not have the desire to try to get in there. Of course my mom tol dhim if he opened it he was going to clean, zip right back in the living room playing with Batman toys.
> 
> ...


My "two gun policy" addresses all of these concerns. One on my ankle that I can easily access while seated, and one in my front pocket that I can easily access while standing. None on my person when I am supine.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Brevard13 said:


> ...6 hrs a night spent staring at security camera monitor gets boring...especially when nothing ever goes on. Now don't get me wrong I love not having nothing to do except walk and check doors and gates but the camers make my eyes hurt.


Are you allowed to read? A book, I mean?
That's what I'd be doing, if it were allowed.
And if it isn't allowed, how 'bout _listening_ to a book on tape, which you can get from your local library. Think of all of the stuff you could be learning, in all of that boring time!



Packard said:


> ...None on my person when I am supine.


Cleopatra was supposed to have told Cæsar, "I am not prone to argue." :yawinkle:


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Are you allowed to read? A book, I mean?
> That's what I'd be doing, if it were allowed.
> And if it isn't allowed, how 'bout _listening_ to a book on tape, which you can get from your local library. Think of all of the stuff you could be learning, in all of that boring time!


Technically, technically no. of course being at night there is only 3 people at the most here and they are in the plant and I am in the office. Magazines are kind of ok because you can look up at the monitors every so often where as a book ( I know I do) have a tendency to read for awhile before looking up. I'm also not technically suppose to be on the internet, but with the way our computer monitor is with or camera monitor they don't really say anything. Most of the time I'm on youtube listening to songs or watching videos.


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