# Report From Iraq - Beretta



## ginkgo

A co-worker just returned from an 18 month tour in Iraq with the Army. He worked in administration in the Green Zone, but still went on weekly police work outside the zone. Regarding the Beretta sidearm, and all equipment, Army deploys teams of people constantly who evaluate gear performance. Beretta has not been singled out for reliability issues. Army is looking into going back to 45 cal, because the 9mm is viewed as less than positive in stopping power. Most infantry don't carry the sidearm, only the rifle. Men in turrets on vehicles like APC's and tanks use the pistol and not rifles. Word is that enemy take 'half a dozen' steps when hit by 9mm instead of being stopped. Double tapping is the rule. Army Times magazine repeats that Army is evaluating the return to 45.


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## Baldy

I read the other day where the government just ordered something like 176,000 more Beretta's. So I don't think they are going anywhere soon.


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## Shipwreck

Well, the whole test system that had all the gun companies competing to be the new supplier has been cancelled. So, they will be keeping the Beretta for now at least.

Many people on the HK Pro site hope that HK will still release their 45 next year despite the cancellation...


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## Hal8000

Being limited to just "Ball" ammunition, I would take the .45ACP any day over the .9mm...
To bad our guys cannot have decent ammunition along with a other wise, fine pistol...


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## rection47

Shipwreck said:


> Many people on the HK Pro site hope that HK will still release their 45 next year despite the cancellation...


Isnt the MK23 a 45? Ive read that that gun excels in all aspects, as a sidearm, why wouldnt the military just use that?


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## Shipwreck

Because its too damn big. Ever try to hold one.

They need something that even women can use.

And, in black, its a $2k gun.


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## Mike Barham

As I understand it, the few HK Mk. 23s in inventory mainly stay locked up in arms room vaults. There's very little point in that pistol. For the size and weight, you can almost carry the vastly more effective M4 or, if you need a quiet weapon, a suppressed MP5.

Most special ops types seem to prefer 1911s if they have a choice, though the SIG P226 is in use by SEALs and lots of guys carry the M9. I've talked to a few elite types who have been to the Big Sandbox, and none have even mentioned the Mk. 23.

Army SECFOR and MPs are all issued pistols. These guys comprise a very large number of the soldiers patrolling Iraq. They get M9s. Army and Marine infantry generally just have a rifle or machinegun and LOTS of ammo.

I realize this is a handgun board and everyone here likes pistols, but pistols are basically inconsequential weapons on a battlefield. A pistol is nice to have, but keep in mind that for the weight of a pistol and a couple of spare mags, you can carry two more 30 round M4 magazines, which is so much more effective in a firefight that comparisons are ridiculous. The main reason to have a pistol seems to be fulfilling the requirement to be armed at all times (even in secured areas) without being burdened with a long arm.

It's funny how things change. When the 1911 was general issue, everyone moaned that it kicked hard and was totally inaccurate. So we went to the Beretta. Everyone was pleased for a few years. Now everyone claims it's a peashooter with unreliable mags. You can't please anyone, I guess.

If I had to shoot hajji with a pistol loaded with ball ammo, I'd prefer to do it with a .45 than a 9mm. However, most military people quite honestly can't shoot a pistol well enough to even hit hajji, so I think I'd rather give them 16 chances to hit him versus eight.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## js

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> As I understand it, the few HK Mk. 23s in inventory mainly stay locked up in arms room vaults. There's very little point in that pistol. For the size and weight, you can almost carry the vastly more effective M4 or, if you need a quiet weapon, a suppressed MP5.
> 
> Most special ops types seem to prefer 1911s if they have a choice, though the SIG P226 is in use by SEALs and lots of guys carry the M9. I've talked to a few elite types who have been to the Big Sandbox, and none have even mentioned the Mk. 23.
> 
> Army SECFOR and MPs are all issued pistols. These guys comprise a very large number of the soldiers patrolling Iraq. They get M9s. Army and Marine infantry generally just have a rifle or machinegun and LOTS of ammo.
> 
> I realize this is a handgun board and everyone here likes pistols, but pistols are basically inconsequential weapons on a battlefield. A pistol is nice to have, but keep in mind that for the weight of a pistol and a couple of spare mags, you can carry two more 30 round M4 magazines, which is so much more effective in a firefight that comparisons are ridiculous. The main reason to have a pistol seems to be fulfilling the requirement to be armed at all times (even in secured areas) without being burdened with a long arm.
> 
> It's funny how things change. When the 1911 was general issue, everyone moaned that it kicked hard and was totally inaccurate. So we went to the Beretta. Everyone was pleased for a few years. Now everyone claims it's a peashooter with unreliable mags. You can't please anyone, I guess.
> 
> If I had to shoot hajji with a pistol loaded with ball ammo, I'd prefer to do it with a .45 than a 9mm. However, most military people quite honestly can't shoot a pistol well enough to even hit hajji, so I think I'd rather give them 16 chances to hit him versus eight.


Extremely good point. :smt023


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## Revolver

I'd rather have with me the '16A2. Better marksmanship training is desperately needed but seems to have dropped to the lowest of priorities. I'm indifferent toward the M9. Granted, it isn't the best choice for what it is but it gets the job done.


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## Hal8000

Well, after all, a pistol is really for fighting your way back to your rifle anyway....


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## Mike Barham

Hal8000 said:


> Well, after all, a pistol is really for fighting your way back to your rifle anyway....


If you end up down to only a pistol in Iraq, you are in about the deepest kaka imaginable. There's probably no rifle to fight your way to, since the only reason you'd be using the pistol is if your primary weapon went down for some reason (out of ammo, blown up, or in a burning Humvee). You'd have to pop hajji and take his AK.

Everyone knows how to run an AK, right?

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


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## nukehayes

The army is worried about stopping power with their Beretta M9?
What about their friggin' Rifle? .223 = really fast .22 not much stopping power there. I think they need to adopt that new chambering 6.8x43 for their rifle. I realize less ammo capacity but its better to drop an enemy with one shot than to use 4 to do the same job. My buddy is over there right now and has written to me about the total lack of stopping power he has with his rifle. Oh well, I definately want the military to go back to the 1911, but I don't think it's going to happen, and being in the Navy, I know how long it would actually take for anything like that to happen. Oh well, I can still dream and pray that my buddy stays safe and makes his shots count. :smt071 :smt1099


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## dogngun

Very interesting thread, hope no one objects if I bring it back. I was in the Army in the 1911 era, 1968-1971.
The pistols then issued were relics of WW II, dying of old age, and most guys who carried one wished for something a little newer and more modern. 
The 1911 is a great pistol, if you take the time to perfect your skills with it and learn its quirks. Many people find it difficult to shoot well-or at all.
The DA 9mm was welcomed when it came into service, and I'd bet money (if I had any) that there are very few actual pistol users now in the military who 
would like to have it back.
I am not anti-1911, I have owned several since I bought a WW II issue Remington Rand for $170 in 1972, but there are easier pistols for the average shooter to master and that is a big consideration when training troops.

I also agree, if you are in a war and you are down to a pistol, you are in it up to the neck.

Mark


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## Chow Chow

The MK23 is not too big its just you guys that are too small to handle it :nutkick:


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## DRAEGER

I've seen a wide variety of the firearms currently being used in the Military, they are in sad shape. The M9 is like many of the variety of m16's and M4's over there. They are old, well used and many have been abused. It's not a wonder people complain about their service weapons. I also read that Beretta did receive a very large order for the US military, it does make sense considering it is something they have trained with, are fairly use to using and no retraining for the armor either.

I am a big fan of the 45 caliber, although I more often carry 9mm for a variety of reasons. I prefer to use a full size pistol under most circumstances like the 92's and 1911's or my 24/7 (soon to be a 24/7 OSS too). I have larger hands. the size and weight feels better to me, plus I generally like shooting something closer to a 5" barreled firearm.


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## Mike Barham

DRAEGER said:


> I've seen a wide variety of the firearms currently being used in the Military, they are in sad shape. The M9 is like many of the variety of m16's and M4's over there. They are old, well used and many have been abused.


I've seen very few weapons in "sad shape." As unit armorer, every carbine and pistol we issued went through my hands. While many of the pistols had somewhat worn finishes, all were perfectly functional. We actually had one brand new Colt M4 that malfunctioned intermittently due to a faulty extractor. That was an easy fix, though.

I see lots of weapons here that have worn finishes, but that doesn't mean the weapon is abused. Hell, I take a worn weapon as a sign that the bearer probably has some serious experience under his belt. Here in Afghanistan, our weapons repair support facility is simply excellent. Any weapon that goes down can be repaired in a day, and if it can't they will just replace it on the spot.

The main problem is the lousy magazines floating around in theater, especially for the M9. The Check-Mate mags suck, but it is very hard to get anything else. I had to have my wife send me some OEM Beretta mags for my personal pistol.


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## DRAEGER

Mike,

Why is it I just knew you would be the one to quote and reply to my comments...  lol!

I'm telling you, someday we need to do the beer and pizza thing


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## TOF

Here in Afghanistan said:


> I am curious Mike. What do the Fighting Men do while their weapon is sidelined for a day?:smt1099


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## DRAEGER

TOF said:


> I am curious Mike. What do the Fighting Men do while their weapon is sidelined for a day?:smt1099


Golf? :anim_lol:


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## Mike Barham

TOF said:


> I am curious Mike. What do the Fighting Men do while their weapon is sidelined for a day?:smt1099


We have loaner M4s and (some) duplicate crew-served weapons. M9s aren't a big concern, since pistols are almost useless in battle, and we have yet to see one go down anyway.

As far as maintenance, if a unit armorer can't fix the weapon, it gets evacuated to direct support. We'll give the soldier a loaner if he's going on a mission immediately (I know, I know, the rifle won't be sighted in for him - we just use mechanical zero). Since missions are sort of irregular, we may or may not issue another weapon. Depends on if he needs it right away or not, and if he has a pistol to carry around the base in the meantime.

Since I am located on the same post as the direct support facility, I can physically bring it over and have them look at it. They can usually tell me on the spot if they can fix it. If yes, I'll just come back in a few hours or the next day and pick it up. If they say they can't fix it immediately, they'll just swap it for a functioning weapon.

The soldier will obviously have to sight in the new weapon at the first available opportunity, but there are plenty of shooting opportunities here!


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## TOF

So who handles the "direct support facility"? Army or Civies?
:smt1099


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## Mike Barham

TOF said:


> So who handles the "direct support facility"? Army or Civies?
> :smt1099


Civilian contractors. Here at Bagram they are mostly Indians (dots, not feathers).


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## Peacemaker

Sounds like outsourcing at it's worst. Indians from india repairing american weapons? thats pretty lame.


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## Mike Barham

Peacemaker said:


> Sounds like outsourcing at it's worst. Indians from india repairing american weapons? thats pretty lame.


I don't give a damn who repairs our weapons, as long as the weapons work. I could care less if purple-skinned Venusian dwarf elves fixed them, as long as the guys in my unit roll with operational weapons. The Indian guys are competent, quick, and polite - which is more than I can say for some of the Americans who work in, for example, the laundry facility.

Keep in mind this isn't just an American mission. We have forces here from (in no particular order) Germany, Poland, France, New Zealand, Portugal, Egypt, Canada, The Netherlands, Korea, and probably some others I can't think of at the moment. If I were in a firefight, I'd be very glad to see the very tough Korean soldiers, as an example, come rolling over the hill to help me out.

By the way, our pistols were designed in Italy (Beretta) or Germany/Switzerland (SIG-Sauer) and our M16s, M249s and M240Bs are made by FN, a Belgian company. Outsourcing, what?


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## Dave James

Mike some of the best post I have seen regarding the M9, have wondered how exactly they where holding up

Spot on about the carry of "hand" guns in a war front, I played tunnel rat on a few occasions and had the old Victory model 38 spl or the 45 acp, didn't feel real comfortable with either


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## spacedoggy

I love the Beretta M9 but if I was in combat I would take the 1911A1 any day. That might be because I was an MP back in the early 70's. I have friends I served with still in service (Old Farts) and most tell me that they don't care what the troops use and some tell me that they can bring back AK's to the states. I find that hard to believe. It was almost impossible to bring one back from Nam.


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## BAC

Surprised I haven't seen "knock-down power" mentioned yet. :reading:

I'm with whoever said marksmanship should be emphasized. If someone's taking any number of steps after taking a hit from any bullet, you didn't hit him very well, and there's probably nothing a caliber increase of about .07 is going to do about it.


-B


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## Old Padawan

BAC said:


> Surprised I haven't seen "knock-down power" mentioned yet. :reading:
> -B


Mike has access to one of the only guns with true "knock down power".

Can you sa MA-DUCE.


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## LoneWolf

BAC said:


> Surprised I haven't seen "knock-down power" mentioned yet. :reading:
> 
> I'm with whoever said marksmanship should be emphasized. If someone's taking any number of steps after taking a hit from any bullet, you didn't hit him very well, and there's probably nothing a caliber increase of about .07 is going to do about it.
> 
> -B


Here's one for you all. One of my instructers (Highly trained man who travels world wide to train SWAT, Feds, ect) told us all a story on double tapping. From what he said there was a bank robery and as the team went up the stairs the doors swing open and here comes a thug in a mask swing a pistale and not watching what's going on. Well the first one on the line grabs the guy and lets two rounds fly through his chest and drops the SOB.
But belive it or not as the last two SWAT members are going through the doors the SOB who was down for the count picks himself up and unloads his clip into their backs. Sadly to say the two members didn't make it. Though from what my instructer said after that it was instated that you double tap your suspect and handcuff them after words.


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## Revolver

The funny thing is that the regulations for carrying the M1911A1 is still in affect for the carrying of the Beretta 92FS. While guarding military installations MP's are forbidden from carrying with a round chambered. So the DA isn't an advantage at all.

You don't appreciate many of the DOD civilians lack of "people skills", Mike? Gotta love their attitudes. Clinton needs a serious ass kicking for that.


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## raveneap

I carried the Beretta 92FC as a LEO and bought my issue weapon when I retired. Have had it for 19 years and it's as reliable today as it was on the day I received it new in 1988. But, in a face to face confrontation I'd have to say I'd rather have one of my 1911's. Since my retirement, my agency has switched to HK .45s. But as far as quality goes, my old Beretta (and my more recent purchase, a 96) are outstanding. And neither has ever failed to go "Bang" when called upon.


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## Mike Barham

Revolver said:


> The funny thing is that the regulations for carrying the M1911A1 is still in affect for the carrying of the Beretta 92FS. While guarding military installations MP's are forbidden from carrying with a round chambered. So the DA isn't an advantage at all.


I'm not sure about that, at least on all posts. My father commands post security in North America. I'll check with him and get the story. The private security at Bragg all carry shotguns across their backs, so I am not sure an MP with a loaded chamber is a big deal.



> You don't appreciate many of the DOD civilians lack of "people skills", Mike? Gotta love their attitudes. Clinton needs a serious ass kicking for that.


The DoD civvies here are mainly okay. It's just some of the contractors who lack social skills. I swear that KBR only recruits Americans from ghettos, with all the "attitude" contained therein.


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## Magicmanmb

Why don't we just dump the M16 platform and use the AK 47 like most of the rest of the world. It can be fired by both sexes, only problem is the NATO/1ClintUN nation doesn't like In my experience they hold up better but Kennedy's whiz kids didn't develope it. Simple solution DA/SA .45 like the 4506only problem is women need a smaller sidearm and we have to have NATO compatible ammo. :smt1099


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## Mike Barham

Magicmanmb said:


> Why don't we just dump the M16 platform and use the AK 47 like most of the rest of the world. It can be fired by both sexes, only problem is the NATO/1ClintUN nation doesn't like In my experience they hold up better but Kennedy's whiz kids didn't develope it. Simple solution DA/SA .45 like the 4506only problem is women need a smaller sidearm and we have to have NATO compatible ammo. :smt1099


The rest of the world _doesn't_ use the AK47. Only third world countries issue it now. The major powers using the AK platform (mainly Russia) issue the AK74. Here in Afghanistan, I have seen M16A2s, M16A4s, M4s, Steyr AUGs, FAMAS, HK G36s, and SA85s. The Poles are using a souped up AK of some kind. The older AK variants are only seen in the hands of third-rate powers like Egypt, Romania, and Bulgaria - and fourth-rate armies like Afghanistan's.

The AK design is reliable, but that is about all it has going for it. The M4 is lighter, far more ergonomic, more accurate, has vastly better sights, is much easier to attach optics to, usually has a better trigger, offers faster and simpler mag changes, has an adjustable stock, and is much easier to control in rapid or auto fire.

It is not only women who need a smaller pistol, but the many small-handed men in uniform, and also pilots and CID types (both of whom are often issued the M11/SIG P228). Size is a big weakness of the M9 - the thing is huge.

People on the internet often poke fun at the idea of ammo interchange among NATO countries, but I have personally issued British 5.56mm ammo to American soldiers when we didn't have access to American ammo. If we didn't have the Brit ammo, we would not have had ammo at all. So there is something to be said for standardizing on ammo.

I have seen lots and lots of soldiers shoot pistols, and my general opinion is that most of the supposed "stopping power" failures that soldiers complain about are actually simply failures to shoot accurately. A .45 won't improve that. Hell, back when 1911s were issued, everyone complained that they were inaccurate and kicked like mules. It's not true, of course, but it demonstrates that most soldiers really have no idea how to use a pistol - regardless of its caliber.


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## js

Magicmanmb said:


> Why don't we just dump the M16 platform and use the AK 47 like most of the rest of the world.


not trying to hijack the thread, but your post reminded me of a video clip I stumbled on to a while back. I thought I'd share... Derka! Derka!
:anim_lol:

[myspace]758248[/myspace]


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## spacedoggy

I had a good talk a few months back with a Marine friend of my son's. He has been knee deep in the shit over there. He told me that they were able to use what they can get or find as a side arm since they weren't issued to them. I found that hard to believe they could use anything but when asked if they were needed he said no in the battlefield but since the new battlefield is now urban and house to house it can come in very handy when you have a full size M-16. He has seen side arms save the lives of other Marines in the backup mode and he would like to see them issued only in urban settings. Rather have the extra m16 ammo in a firefight. They all seem to want the 1911 and were able to get them but no one had ammo for them. He also told me he was able to bring home an AK. Right then I thought this guy was full of it and did not believe a word he said. Then I dropped my son off at his place out in the country and I heard automatic gun fire. My son said you need to see his AK and he was telling the truth. I said what did you do mail it and he said he bought it home in his duffel bag stripped down with no problem. Back in Vietnam it was hard as hell to even get a part home. I worked customs for a short time at a air force base and that was the number one thing we looked for. That's another subject for another day.


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## Mike Barham

I don't hang with any Marines over here, but none of the Army infantry guys I know (over 600 in my battalion) are clamoring for 1911s. Of course, Army guys are issued M4s, which are far handier in urban fighting than the Marines' M16A2s and A4s. All that said, I do carry an M9 to back up my M4 when I go outside the wire!

If he brought an AK home in his duffle bag, he violated several sections of the UCMJ. The mountain of paperwork required just to send an old black powder rifle home from Afghanistan is positively daunting. There's no way in hell bringing home an AK in duffle bag was remotely legal.


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## zippo9

Revolver said:


> The funny thing is that the regulations for carrying the M1911A1 is still in affect for the carrying of the Beretta 92FS. While guarding military installations MP's are forbidden from carrying with a round chambered. So the DA isn't an advantage at all.
> 
> You don't appreciate many of the DOD civilians lack of "people skills", Mike? Gotta love their attitudes. Clinton needs a serious ass kicking for that.


Before retiring from the Air Force we always carried a round chambered. Can''t speak to Army policy


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## babs

Just with this thread alone.. I'm glad I found this place.. 1st thing.. Mike, (and the rest of you guys) God bless you for serving! 

2nd.. I'm the newb that started the thread about the 92F a friend has. I believe he was Army (he saw some stuff in the Gulf War).. He was also a range instructor ? (title) at Ft Benning I think.. Heckuva good guy.. Sold me my car.. As good as car-salesmen go... This one, I like. He's a good egg. Anyway, That 92F he has he states is identical to his M9 (I've been learning up on berettas). I'm still just not sold on that 9mm round though, regardless of 15+1 capacity in that gun... M&P? XD? Ah, I guess I just have to get to the range and find out which fits me and which I fit it.

Sorry didn't mean to butt in, I meant to just say hello and man some great reading here for a newb like me. :mrgreen:


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## mattmacklind

My first hand gun was a 92FS. I still don't have anything larger. I'm not military and I have no combat experience. My friends all have 40's or 45's, or even Desert Eagles and seem convinved that my 9mm just isn't enough. 

I don't know what happens when bullets hit bodies, but I can't imagine a 9mm being inadequate to drop someone. A hard headed, physically fit or drugged up perpetrator who can survive a few rounds from a 9mm will probably survive the same attack from a 45 unless its a perfect headshot. A 9mm with +P hollow point rounds seems pretty adequate to give somebody real pause. 

The one thing I will definitely agree on is the 92FS is a physically huge pistol.


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## Mike Barham

Modern 9mm JHPs are perfectly adequate for personal defense. The Beretta is an extremely reliable pistol. Anyone with both is well armed.

_All_ pistols are weak weapons. .40s and .45s are slightly more potent than 9mm, but that does not cancel out the 9mm's advantages in lighter recoil (and thus faster shooting) and considerably less expensive practice ammo.


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## babs

Yeah all of those factors actually appeal to me... The 92 isn't a cannon (easier recoil for the newbie behind the grip), less expensive ammo to make holes in paper at the range, reliable, easy to field-strip.. probably easy to maintain (which I plan on keeping it immaculate as possible)... won't be a side-arm for carry except on rare occasion.. Sounds like a great 1st pistol, and sure isn't hard on the eyes. :mrgreen:

The more I read up on the M&P's, it seems like the magazine reviewers really dig those as well as the XD's.. I did read some criticisms about XD's being a little more prone to rust issues which makes me lean toward the S&W M&P's, though I imagine it's all pretty much who you ask.. I did see an HS2000 (pre-springfield XD) that had 20k+ rounds through it and looked fabulous for it's age.. rails were crisp anyway (to my novice eyes).


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## dawgsm

just wanted to say thank's to mike barham for doing a service to
our country.i know you guys dont here this as much as you should
i was in the air force during peace time.again thank you for your
service to your country.


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## babs

dawgsm said:


> just wanted to say thank's to mike barham for doing a service to
> our country.i know you guys dont here this as much as you should
> i was in the air force during peace time.again thank you for your
> service to your country.


Just read back through this thread and getting at least just a little taste of perspective of what it's like over there.. about all I can say is one big mega Ditto to the above..

The word "thanks" needs a stronger variant in the English language.. and spread that around to the other guys as well.

:smt1099


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## Wyatt

Mike Barham said:


> The main problem is the lousy magazines floating around in theater, especially for the M9. The Check-Mate mags suck, but it is very hard to get anything else. I had to have my wife send me some OEM Beretta mags for my personal pistol.


Count me in for at least 2 (of the 15 round clips, right?). I can order them tomorrow if you can just let me know how to get them to you. Since wifey set you up already, if you don't need them, give them to one of your guys that do. Unless I don't know any better and they are not available stateside. I just got the idea from your post, but haven't really checked to see if they are available. If there are any of the aftermarket ones that are good and are cheaper/available, tell me which ones and I could probably spring for a few of those for your bro's.

Let me know.


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## Mike Barham

Well, thanks very much for all the good wishes!

*Wyatt*, your offer is very much appreciated, but we are blessedly on our way out of this place in just a few short weeks. You can buy the beer when we get home, though! ;-)

Oh, and I have an update on M9 durability. We had our first M9 go down about ten days ago. The spring for the disassembly button broke. The weapon still functioned fine in terms of firing, but it couldn't be taken apart for cleaning. We ordered a replacement spring (it's not part of our bench stock) and had the weapon up and running again in short order. This has been our only recorded problem with the M9 battalion-wide. Say what you will about the Beretta, but the pistol does work.


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## babs

That's making me feel better about reconsidering my friends 92FS Inox again.. Assuming that it's the same quality/design... I figure for a great shape 92 with finger-wrap grips, two carry holsters, a box of speer ammo and a few mags, $550 isn't too terribly bad.. After closer inspection of the bore and slide and condition.. I'm all over it I think.

I only wish it was a .40, but I guess ammo at the range will be cheaper and with 15 + 1, any home intruders would be met with hopefully-well-placed double or triple taps instead of one big bang.

And since it has no case, I found a very solid case that'll make a great pistol case if and when I ever need it.

So I'm full circle all the way back around to the original pistol I was considering when I joined the forum.. He's not listing it as it's basically just mine when I can justify the expenditure. I sure miss disposable income.

*Good to hear you're almost out of there. Get home safe Mike.* :smt1099

If I were in AZ, I'd buy the first round.


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## BeefyBeefo

babs said:


> So I'm full circle all the way back around to the original pistol I was considering when I joined the forum.. He's not listing it as it's basically just mine when I can justify the expenditure. I sure miss disposable income.
> 
> *Good to hear you're almost out of there. Get home safe Mike.* :smt1099
> 
> If I were in AZ, I'd buy the first round.


I think you should go for it. I'm ordering an Inox 92fs from budsgunshop this week.

If I were in AZ, I'd buy a round as well  Thanks from me as well for your service to our country Mike, it's greatly appreciated. Maybe I can buy you a round some day as I am considering applying for jobs in Arizona when I graduate this year. I'm sick of these gun laws here and I wouldn't mind the warm weather as I am a motorcycle guy as well :smt033 :smt1099

-Jeff-


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## Mike Barham

Come to Arizona! You can ride your bike pretty much year-round in AZ, as long as you don't live in the mountains. And you can open carry while you ride. ;-)


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## Mike Barham

*babs*, 9mm is perfectly good for defense with modern JHP ammo. .40 is hardly the Hammer of Thor, regardless of what mall ninjas on the internet may claim.


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## Wyatt

Mike, when I saw your post about the problem mags I didn't realize how old it was (doh!). Wish I had found this site sooner, maybe we could have gotten a paper drive going to get some to your unit.

But the good news is your coming home soon. Look forward to your safe return, with gratitude and appreciation for your service.


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## babs

"Mall Ninja's" ??? 

hehehehehe :anim_lol:

Thanks Jeff.. Yeah this Inox actually has all the same color finish with the controls, rather than the black I've seen on some.. Don't know if this means something as far as a different variant or where it's made etc... Which I did forget to look at whether it was an Italian or US made.. Don't know that it matters. Dang good looking pistol.. There's a little finish wear here and there but I'm more concerned about the engine and drivetrain, rather than the paintjob and wheels.

Some folks would say since it's an unregistered gun, all the better, though the first thing I'd be doing is getting the CC permit and registering it.


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## Mike Barham

My impression of the M9s in my company - and I examined literally all of them before we deployed - is that the approximately 10% that are Italian-made are a little bit smoother than their Maryland-made equivalents, and have better triggers. However, this may simply be due to the fact that the Italian guns are older, have been shot more, and are consequently more "broken in."


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## babs

I pulled a couple dry-fires on this one.. which I don't know is a bad thing to do once in a blue moon on beretta 92's or not (probably).. But the trigger felt sweeeeeeet. Mr newbie non-connoisseur here can definitely live with it.

And I find that I actually like the decocker/safety setup.. You can guess on how much of a newb I am, I can probably safely say I have no business carrying C&L "condition-1" I guess you call it.. Don't know the conditions yet.

Also.. On this particular 92, I noticed both front and rear sites are dove-tailed.. I'm guessing this is a good thing incase I ever wanted to upgrade.


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## BeefyBeefo

babs said:


> Thanks Jeff.. Yeah this Inox actually has all the same color finish with the controls, rather than the black I've seen on some.. Don't know if this means something as far as a different variant or where it's made etc...


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read and seen it's just that the newer one's have the black plastic controls rather than the same color. Doesn't really matter to me the reliability isn't an issue and still looks and feels like a GREAT pistol to me (suprisingly since I have small hands).

-Jeff-


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## babs

I've seen the guys on the beretta forum do some crazy finish jobs on them anyway it appears.. Actually on this gun I'm looking at he's polished the slide.


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