# 9mm +p



## Brickrider (Jan 2, 2016)

A few weeks ago I was shopping at a large gun store in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area and was looking at a 9mm pistol (I do not remember the brand). The barrel was marked 9mm, but I was looking for something 9mm +P. I asked the young kid behind the counter (I am 60 so most of them look young) if he had anything in 9MM +P. He said all 9mm are +P even if they are not marked +P. That was news to me. Is this true? Can a 9mm pistol, even an older 9mm handgun, safely eat a steady diet of 9mm +P ammo or was he spewing forth incorrect information? My current handguns are marked 9mm Parabelllum. Can I safely shoot 9mm +P ammo in them?


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

To be on the safe side it is best not to use +P if firearm is *not *marked +P...........


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Most modern 9mm pistols (Glock, etc.) are rated for +P ammo. Older ones are not. I had a West German Sig Sauer P226 & I asked the manufacturer this same question. He said their older pistols should not be fired with +P but their newer pistols (9mm & 45 ACP) were made with upgrades that were specifically designed for +P ammo that didn't exist when the older pistols were made. I have never seen any pistol that had "+P" on the slide.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

I would suggest reading the owners manual for any handgun you are interested in to see what additional info on ammo is there.
I have a ruger and the manual says that while it can handle +P ammo, a 'steady diet' of +P can shorten the life of the handgun.
YRMV.
'


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

From the Beretta 92FS manual:



> Using good quality ammunition combined with preventive maintenace will make the
> pistol perform flawlessly through years of service. To prevent malfunctioning always
> visually inspect each cartridge for external damage before loading.
> The pistol is designed and tested to withstand continued shooting with all brands and
> ...


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have never seen a semi-auto 9mm pistol with the caliber designation of 9mm+P on it's slide or frame. There are a few 9mm pistols which are not recommended for +P use and this is clearly stated in their manuals. However, most 9mm pistols will handle +P ammo just fine. Like others have said, a steady diet of this ammunition is generally not recommended but for SD use, you should be good to go. All of my primary and secondary pistols in 9mm get loaded with +P ammo.

For what it's worth, the gen3 Glock 19 was factory tested to be safe up to 43,000 cup (or psi, if you prefer). At the time I saw this there was a round available, and I imagine it still is, that was rated to 42,000 cup and that was/is the Winchester Ranger 127 grain JHP RAT9A +P+. While the gen3 Glock 19 did handle this in the test I saw, I would not recommend using it any more than absolutely necessary for any extended period.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Pistols chambered in 9mm Luger will generally have "9x19mm" or "9mm Para" engraved on the barrel. As was said, even pistols that the manufacturers rate for +P ammo will not have that designation engraved on the slide. Manufacturers tend to be very conservative when it comes to ammo recommendations. Most will not authorize the use of reloaded ammunition and very few will authorize the use of +P+ ammo. The reason is that there is no control over reloaded ammo and no absolute upper pressure limit for +P+ ammo. If you have a vintage 9mm pistol it is probably best to stick with standard pressure ammo. Despite what was quoted in the Beretta 92FS manual, that pistol will handle +P ammunition just fine. In fact, the NATO spec ammunition that Winchester provides to the military for use in that pistol is loaded to slightly higher pressure than standard 9mm Luger.


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## Brickrider (Jan 2, 2016)

Thank you all for your responses. I did not think he was correct, but I never claim to know everything so I did not argue with him.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

I shoot +P in any of my 9mm handguns without concern. None are vintage. I dug a little deeper into published information and found in 9mm 124 grain, there's not a lot of difference between standard ammo and what is designated +P. Once my decision was made, I lost the information and am not willing to resource is, but just look at something say like the Speer 124 grn. +P and compare it against many of the standard rounds out there. Many have higher rated velocity and energy. Printed chamber pressures are often less. 

I practice with FMJ standard pressure 124 grn but make sure the velocity is close to the same as my Speer +P and I'm good to go. No worries. I can tell no real difference in how snappy both are either.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Craigh said:


> I shoot +P in any of my 9mm handguns without concern. None are vintage. I dug a little deeper into published information and found in 9mm 124 grain, there's not a lot of difference between standard ammo and what is designated +P. Once my decision was made, I lost the information and am not willing to resource is, but just look at something say like the Speer 124 grn. +P and compare it against many of the standard rounds out there. Many have higher rated velocity and energy. Printed chamber pressures are often less.
> 
> I practice with FMJ standard pressure 124 grn but make sure the velocity is close to the same as my Speer +P and I'm good to go. No worries. I can tell no real difference in how snappy both are either.


All of my 9mm carry guns (currently there are only three; two in my primary stable and one in my secondary stable) ride with +P loads in either the Federal HST 124 grain or Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHP configurations.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Brickrider said:


> A few weeks ago I was shopping at a large gun store in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area and was looking at a 9mm pistol (I do not remember the brand). The barrel was marked 9mm, but I was looking for something 9mm +P. I asked the young kid behind the counter (I am 60 so most of them look young) if he had anything in 9MM +P. He said all 9mm are +P even if they are not marked +P. That was news to me. Is this true? Can a 9mm pistol, even an older 9mm handgun, safely eat a steady diet of 9mm +P ammo or was he spewing forth incorrect information? My current handguns are marked 9mm Parabelllum. Can I safely shoot 9mm +P ammo in them?


Good question. Now that I've thought about it, it's interesting that some revolvers have "+P" marked on the barrel but I've never seen any semi-auto pistol with such a mark, even modern ones that are safe with +P. Makes ya wonder why.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't shoot +P ammo. If I can't get it done with standard pressure or most SD loads, then I should not be trying in the first place. There may be some of the SD loads I have that are actually loaded to a +P pressure, but it does not say so on the boxes. JMHO.


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## 901-Memphis (Jan 28, 2010)

Not that I would ever recommend a Remington handgun but their barrels are rated +P and marked on it.


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## Illyia (Jan 12, 2017)

+P relative to what? 9mm ammo produced by U.S. Companies has LONG been loaded LIGHT....any casual perusal of factory 9mm loadings will reveal it's all pretty lame when it comes to chamber pressure.

In EUROPE by comparison, 9mm ammo is loaded to the original standard...meaning "hotter" than here in Product Liability Land. In European loadings what "we" call +P is standard pressure. The 9mm case is about as strong as a case CAN be with it's tapered outer body resulting in supremely THICK webs. It would take a LOT to blow out a 9mm case...A LOT!

Eon's ago I remember my earliest exposure to the 9mm with my S&W M39 and I swear I could have used the case itself as my powder scoop and still not blown the case!

So all this nonesense about +P and +P+ is simply more of the marketing juggernaut. When you see a 115 grain 9mm round going 1,150 fps you should KNOW it's loaded a full 150 fps below "spec." When you see 147 grain 9mm loaded to 950 fps...you should KNOW it's deliberately underloaded.

Having said all this...if one needs MORE power why bother trying to push the 9mm....simply bump up to the .40 S&W which can easily shade the 9mm by 100 lb-ft of energy - and more.


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## papersniper (Oct 14, 2015)

Brickrider said:


> A few weeks ago I was shopping at a large gun store in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area and was looking at a 9mm pistol (I do not remember the brand). The barrel was marked 9mm, but I was looking for something 9mm +P. I asked the young kid behind the counter (I am 60 so most of them look young) if he had anything in 9MM +P. He said all 9mm are +P even if they are not marked +P. That was news to me. Is this true? Can a 9mm pistol, even an older 9mm handgun, safely eat a steady diet of 9mm +P ammo or was he spewing forth incorrect information? My current handguns are marked 9mm Parabelllum. Can I safely shoot 9mm +P ammo in them?


I believe that salesperson was incorrect. I think there is a difference between the pressures/velocities of non-P+ and P+, but I do not know for sure. Other replies I see here look correct about checking what your pistol can safety fire.....oh, I just noticed this is an old thread.....<g>


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## Clement (Aug 16, 2017)

I am of the opinion, that if you need the 9mm+P version of a round, actually you need the next step up in power from what ever caliber you have. 
The 9mm +P will deliver slightly better performance than a standard 9mm carbine, at a noticeably higher cost. 
It is also incompatible with some guns .


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

What problem does +p ammo solve?


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Greybeard said:


> What problem does +p ammo solve?


I'm not sure it solves any problem so much as it adds some extra ranges in velocity you might wish to have. Also, that extra velocity might mean a slightly more reliable recoiling of the slide in a defensive situation. Maybe better internal ballistics. Who knows, but rather than pay attention to things like P or +P I suggest looking at bullet weight and velocity as well at internal ballistics. As I mentioned, the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P I like has a nearly perfect balance between reliability, penetration and expansion. Yet it's just 1220 fps verses 1150 for the standard stuff. So, I dropped to the Short Barrel Gold Dot +P because it was easier to find cheap practice FMJ 124 grain ammo with 1150 FPS velocity and decided the slightly less velocity was worth it to match the recoil impulse of my practice ammo to my carry ammo. Other than this, I'd still be shooting the +P with no concern whatsoever. Actually I can't really tell the difference.

It's not as much as many believe. According to SAAMI +P has up to 10% higher chamber pressure. That's "up to" and sometimes it's less than that. While the standard 9mm has pressures of around 35,000 psi, the +P stuff is 38,500. 
With +P+ there's an entirely different story. It's not rated by SAAMI and the skies the limit. It can be 15% - 40% over maximum. Caveat emptor! :smt073


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

There are some specialty loaders that produce 9mm loads in the neighborhood of 1300 fps with 124 grain bullets (1295 to 1310). Double Tap and Buffalo Bore come to mind. Their 115 grain loads run at even higher velocities.

The thing about higher velocity is that with an expanding round, the bullet will shed its velocity more quickly because it reaches maximum expansion sooner in its travel through a body. While this does generate more disruption in surrounding tissues, it could also mean that the bullet has less chance of reaching some vitals. At maximum expansion, more surface area of the bullet is pushing through the body resulting in more resistance to its flight. The key is controlled expansion when using higher velocities to enable the bullet to do as much damage as possible. It really is a balancing act.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I choose my SD rounds according to whether the bullet expands and penetrates adequately with the charge used. All quality ammo does, every time, in ballistic gel that has been prepared to FBI specifications. To me, all this means is that the majority of rounds are likely to expand properly in a variety of circumstances, and are therefore likely to have the desired effect in many self defense scenarios. Nothing is 'carved in stone,' in a self defense scenario. They are all different, and very few of them will begin and end in the way that we visualize them, when we are preparing ourselves.

I use 147 grain hollow points in my self defense 9mm's, because every one of them impacts a target nearest to my point of aim with that bullet weight. As long as it is not sub-sonic ammo designed for silenced carbines or SBR's, all of the major manufacturers charge this ammo sufficiently to allow adequate expansion in most circumstances. I can and sometimes do use 124 grain ammo, without any major differences - I just seem to shoot more accurately at the range with 147 grain, so I prefer it. Most folks just use 124 grain in quality ammo, and are just as happy.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

For any given projectile keeping the projectile caliber and mass constant, +P ammunition will increase the muzzle velocity over that which is achieved with standard pressure ammunition fired from the same firearm. Obviously, the greater the muzzle velocity, the greater will be the impact velocity for any given range and atmospheric conditions.

With modern JHP projectile technology, there is a somewhat delicate balancing act between impact velocity, expansion, and penetration insofar as terminal ballistics is concerned. As SouthernBoy pointed out, increased impact velocity will sometimes paradoxically decrease penetration by increasing the degree of expansion or by making expansion occur more reliably or sooner. In some short barreled handguns, muzzle velocity will not reach its potential maximum because not all powder is burned before the projectile leaves the barrel. So in some cases, a JHP that shows good expansion with a longer barreled weapon may fail to expand completely with a shorter barrel. Sometimes this can be dealt with by increasing the powder charge as in the Speer Gold Dot +P short barrel load.

There is also the matter of barrier penetration, which is a consideration for some. Barrier penetration will be largely dependent upon something that some have called "momentum density". This is the product of projectile weight and impact velocity divided by projectile cross-sectional area. Bullet weight divided by cross-sectional area is also called "sectional density" and this will be the same for all projectiles of the same caliber and weight. So the product of sectional density and impact velocity is a primary determinate of the ability of that projectile to penetrate a barrier. And for any given caliber, weight, design, and construction of projectile it will be increased by increasing muzzle velocity and thereby increasing impact velocity.


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## surfyogi (2 mo ago)

+P loads won't help much in a gun with a shorter barrel. I have never choreographed my Star Model 30PK but it has a barrel of less than 5 inches, and I would say the M miliary model is actually made with steel frame and longer barrel to take advantage of high velocity rounds. I know from 22LR High Velocity testing, the high velocity loads don't help much in a barrel with less than 6 inches, in order to be able to burn all the powder, otherwise gases have no time to push the bullet faster and are simply wasted..


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

surfyogi said:


> +P loads won't help much in a gun with a shorter barrel. I have never choreographed my Star Model 30PK but it has a barrel of less than 5 inches, and I would say the M miliary model is actually made with steel frame and longer barrel to take advantage of high velocity rounds. I know from 22LR High Velocity testing, the high velocity loads don't help much in a barrel with less than 6 inches, in order to be able to burn all the powder, otherwise gases have no time to push the bullet faster and are simply wasted..


+P are tailor made for short barrels. Especially in older type ammo, well most of it is, but you get the ides.
It isn't going to get you to bragging velocities, but will make up some of the loss of an inch or two of barrel. +P isn't a magical velocity, usually 30-60 FPS depending on the barrel length, 30 being the majority of range, IIRC. 
Modern powder and components don't suffer from the shortcomings you are stating any more, at least not to a large extent.
FWIW in this thread resurrection, I don't recall ever seeing a +P barrel. It says in the OM on all of them, and most say it is OK. Even the not so OK, the majority don't feed a steady diet of +P to guns anyway. It is expensive and tough on the shooter. A few for practice and in the near nonexistent need to use them is fine.


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