# .22 - self-defense



## qpoint (Apr 5, 2009)

any thoughts on .22's as self-defense weapons? *or as second sd weapon in ones home? already planning on purchasing a PX4, .40; but also thinking about a.22 as a second weapon in the house; and just wondering "in general" what thoughts exist about the .22 in general as a main or only sd weapon in the home.*


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## undrgrnd (Jul 10, 2008)

qpoint said:


> any thoughts on .22's as self-defense weapons? *or as second sd weapon in ones home? already planning on purchasing a PX4, .40; but also thinking about a.22 as a second weapon in the house; and just wondering "in general" what thoughts exist about the .22 in general as a main or only sd weapon in the home.*


*

i really wouldnt count on it as my defense weapon of choice but if in close enough proximity any gun will cause damage. now if it a really big guy juiced on pcp then you'll pretty much piss him off. i would personally choice a larger caliber as primary but like i told my wife grab the first gun you can and start shooting. chances are whatever caliber you shoot at them with A) it will scare the shit out of them B) if you hit them it will hurt them C) it could be the deciding factor between life and death. my.02*


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## qpoint (Apr 5, 2009)

thanks. i wouldn't wanty "any" caliber pointed at me much less shot;


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## Guest (May 25, 2009)

A .22LR round beats a sharp stick in the eye, but not by much! 

You will need to fire a lot more .22LR rounds into the BG with greater precision to do as much damage as fewer shots with a larger caliber. 

Scott


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## qpoint (Apr 5, 2009)

:smt082_ "A .22LR round beats a sharp stick in the eye, but not by much!" _ funny.

on the serious note though; i hear ya...


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## mikecu (May 22, 2009)

*22*

I think that the smallest for self defense should be a .380.


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## nailer (Apr 26, 2009)

My home self defense weapon is a Remington 870 express 12 gauge pump shotgun with adjustable stock. I hope I never have to use it, but I have complete confidence when it is in my hands. My 22 is for practice.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

I think that anyone who wants a handgun for defense purposes should get a caliber that is designed for that purpose, which the .22lr is not. Like many other endeavors in life, it makes more sense to use the stuff that is suited for whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.

OTOH, I would be glad to have one to defend myself, if that was the only thing I had.


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## Supermanwoot (May 16, 2009)

a .22 is definitely better than nothing, and hey its easy to shoot.

IMO a .22 isnt going to provide a 1 shot stop, I know people have been shot in the head multiple times with a .22 and come out with just stitches and maybe a concussion. Hopped up on adrenaline, cocaine, pcp, angel dust, meth, speed, 512s, vic-o-dans, somas, pixie sticks, or whatever else they might have, the .22 isn't going to stop them.

However, a shot from a 9mm to the head would be deadly in most cases and a shot to the torso would be devastating although may not immediately stop them. 

For me, it would also come down to confidence. If all I had was a .22 I would be worried that he had armor/drugs in his system and that I wouldnt be able to stop him with that. However if I had my 9mm or .45 then I would know that if he came in my sights that he would not be getting up so that would make me feel more confident .

I think a lot comes down to confidence because chances are you wont have to use your home defense weapon unless you live in a bad part of town, but if you do and you have confidence in your weapon and skills then you have the upper hand right there.


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## stickhauler (May 19, 2009)

*That Was The Advice Of My CCW Instructor*



mikecu said:


> I think that the smallest for self defense should be a .380.


However, the class my son went through allowed .22's for their course, and according to my son, not every person taking the class even owned their personal firearm for the course, they "borrowed" from the gun club where the course was held. My opinion, I wouldn't use anything less than a .380 myself, I want the round to stop the threat, not simply anger it.

Granted, a .22 is often used for mob executions, but in that case, the shooter is seeking a caliber that is easily silenced, and has the advantage of being VERY close to the person they are intending to execute.

My instructor even advised qualifying with every firearm you might possibly consider using for a carry weapon, as a attorney would try to claim you weren't using a firearm you had experience with in the event of your having to use it in a defensive situation. Using a firearm to end a threat is just the first step in our society these days, even if the justice system considers a shooting justifiable, the survivors of the bad guy, or the bad guy himself if you only maimed him could and likely would seek civil suit compensation from you.

There are lots of possible ways any self defense shooting could end up, it's best to consider the implications before hand.


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## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

qpoint said:


> any thoughts on .22's as self-defense weapons? *or as second sd weapon in ones home? already planning on purchasing a PX4, .40; but also thinking about a.22 as a second weapon in the house; and just wondering "in general" what thoughts exist about the .22 in general as a main or only sd weapon in the home.*


*

Which one?

Short, LR, Magnum.....22-250?

Ever fire one? How many and of what do you own?

Anything is better than nothing. And since you are getting a .40?.........learn to use both proficiently from a competant insuructor. BEFORE you do anything else.

I can tell you this much, the .22LR (most common chambering in that caliber nowadays) works best on very small game. Like rabbits.

You have a problem with a lot of rabbits breaking in and invading your home?

The .40 would be overkill on those.*


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## tekhead1219 (May 16, 2008)

clanger said:


> You have a problem with a lot of rabbits breaking in and invading your home?
> 
> The .40 would be overkill on those.


Not rabbits...squirrels. Little ole .22 with a 4x scope and I can empty the trees.:smt023 Makes good stew (if you don't use the .40 anyhow)!!!:anim_lol:


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## bill25413 (Jun 1, 2009)

qpoint said:


> any thoughts on .22's as self-defense weapons? *or as second sd weapon in ones home? already planning on purchasing a PX4, .40; but also thinking about a.22 as a second weapon in the house; and just wondering "in general" what thoughts exist about the .22 in general as a main or only sd weapon in the home.*


*I wouldn't want to get shot with a .22 from any distance. It may not have the stopping power of a larger caliber round but something to consider is that most .22's come with a 10 rnd clip. Put 6,7, or 8 rnds into someone and they should be barely moving if at all. Also a stray round going trhough a wall in a home or someplace where there are people is less likely to do collateral damage then something bigger (a 9mm, or .40 cal for instance). Lastely a lot of people train with a .22 cuz of the cost of ammo so some people would be most familar with this weapon over others they own.*


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I might consider one of those little NAA 4 shot revolvers in .22 Magnum, and use it as a 'contact' weapon, for when a BG is already carving chunks off of me. 

It would be kinda like inserting the bullet manually.


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## FlaChef (Dec 31, 2008)

I will not argue that anything is better than nothing.
I would however rather get shot with a 22 than have a sharp stick through my eye!

Everyone is talking about a 22 (assuming 22lr for this discussion) not working to stop a big guy or someone on drugs. 
Hell .22LR is not good for hunting/varmit control for anything larger than a possum or raccoon (and for good size possum it should be a 22 magnum). Shooting a bobcat (30-40 lbs) *is considered cruel* as it will take the animal hours or days to bleed out/ die of infection.
You would be better off with a kitchen knife than a .22LR out of a short pistol barrel at in the room distance against even a normal adult male if you ask me! _That assumes you are a normal physically capable person, if you are not or have physical issues that preclude you from any physical defense or shooting anything bigger then we should be having a whole different topic about ways to try to stack the deck in your favor._

Yes you can die from multiple 22lr wounds, but you will not cause enough damage to STOP anyone except on a 1 in 1000 lucky shot( i know there are stories where exactly that has happened). Yes you can persuade/scare someone off with a .22 but I would not in good conscience recommend relying on either. If you want a magic charm to "feel protected" then a .22 works as well as a rubber band gun.

Anything in 9mm, .380, .38spl. .4x. etc is a defensive caliber. I do not try to tell people "you need X bullet/caliber", i think any service caliber in a good HP is more similar to another service caliber HP than different. IMHO the difference between any of these is no where near the difference between the least of them and a .22

.22's are GREAT for training and teaching new shooters. Some high end (or even some of the better off the shelf) .22 hand guns also make great target guns and with the right ammo can be danged accurate. .22's also put many a small critter in the stew pot of a country family. But to tell anyone that it would be even marginally OK for self defense is leading someone into possible danger IMHO.


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## Growler67 (Sep 8, 2008)

What's too small? Which caliber is the smallest that you would stand in front of to get shot with? One thing about .22LR is that it's pretty loud indoors. Cycling quickly will provide a certain level of "stopping power" in the fact that it'll likely stop the home invasion and send the perps scurrying for egress. Lack of collateral or overpenetrative damage would also be of some benefit.

Sorry but with 17+1, I don't think I need to consider a BUG in my HD situation. 2 spare mags are ALWAYS within close proximity as well. Whatever will work best for you in your situation is what you should consider.


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## bill25413 (Jun 1, 2009)

qpoint said:


> any thoughts on .22's as self-defense weapons? *or as second sd weapon in ones home? already planning on purchasing a PX4, .40; but also thinking about a.22 as a second weapon in the house; and just wondering "in general" what thoughts exist about the .22 in general as a main or only sd weapon in the home.*


*Seems alot of people have an opinion about using a .22 for self defense. I think the point that alot of people are missing is he is inquiring about using it as a second weapon. Also if a woman or young person ends up in a situation where they may have to use deadly force to stop someone in there home this may in fact be a better choice then a full size handgun. It's easier to hold on to, less recoil and is capable of being deadly. If a person is able to stay calm enough to aim, breath and squeeze they can be deadly with any caliber. I would prefer my .40 cal Sig for self defense but certainly wouldn't rule out using my .22 Sig Mosquito as well to defend myself.*


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## Growler67 (Sep 8, 2008)

bill25413 said:


> Seems alot of people have an opinion about using a .22 for self defense. I think the point that alot of people are missing is he is inquiring about using it as a second weapon. Also if a woman or young person ends up in a situation where they may have to use deadly force to stop someone in there home this may in fact be a better choice then a full size handgun. It's easier to hold on to, less recoil and is capable of being deadly. If a person is able to stay calm enough to aim, breath and squeeze they can be deadly with any caliber. I would prefer my .40 cal Sig for self defense but certainly wouldn't rule out using my .22 Sig Mosquito as well to defend myself.





Growler67 said:


> Whatever will work best for you in your situation is what you should consider.


......as I said.


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## brian04151980 (Jul 27, 2009)

I think one of the bigest problems people are missing in here is the reliabilty of the ammo. Even with the best ammo avalible at most local gun shops I have hand to many miss fires to trust my life or one of my loved ones to this round.Most 22s are sa so second strike is not there. You can find a 380 for close to the same money, size and weight.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

There's a few different brands of 22 ammo that is reliable enough if that's what you really wanted to do. I wouldn't want to use bulk ammo for a SD round but if one was to shell (pardon the pun) out a little more there are some rounds that will fill the reliability issues anyway.


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## johnr (Jun 13, 2008)

S & W makes the 351 Airweight in a 22 mag. sweet little gun and may help train for CC, draw, fire...

10 round model availble for those looking for quantity over quallity.

YMMV

john


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## Brent05Redfire (May 22, 2009)

Growler67 said:


> What's too small? Which caliber is the smallest that you would stand in front of to get shot with? One thing about .22LR is that it's pretty loud indoors. Cycling quickly will provide a certain level of "stopping power" in the fact that it'll likely stop the home invasion and send the perps scurrying for egress. Lack of collateral or overpenetrative damage would also be of some benefit.


a .22LR is pretty loud. And a .22 magnum is really friggin loud. having shot some .22 magnum through a NAA Black Widow, it can be intimidating when you see flames coming out the barrel. I can imagine what it would look like on the receiving end. probably looks and sounds like a larger caliber aimed at you. and at 20 feet, I was pretty accurate with it.


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## fiasconva (Jun 14, 2009)

I wouldn't use a 22 for a HD weapon but they will work. One of my former students got himself shot and killed during a home invasion with one. He broke in and the homeowner ran into his bedroom and locked the door. When he kicked the door down the homeowner shot him with a 22. He ran outside and died in the front yard. They work but just don't have a lot of stopping power. Those little 22's bounce all around inside you once you get shot and can exit anywhere.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

.22 cal. is not my 1st choice for home defense, I'd rather use a .380 or a 9mm or a .45, but I'm not you - you should use the gun and caliber that you are comfortable with and you should shoot it a lot to be very comfortable with it.

.22 can be lethal as hell - there are several assassin groups that use the caliber because of noise / concealability and other reasons.

:smt1099


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

bill25413 said:


> ..._f a woman or young person ends up in a situation where they may have to use deadly force to stop someone in there home [a .22] may in fact be a better choice then a full size handgun. It's easier to hold on to, less recoil and is capable of being deadly..._


_
It has been my experience, from teaching both my daughter and my wife (among others) to shoot a pistol, that any 10-year-old child can successfully and effectively shoot a full-size .45 ACP semi-auto. All it takes is a little parental preparation and coaching to set them on the right path.
While a .22 may seem easier to shoot, in a save-your-life-panic situation it would be better to have to fire only one very effective shot, rather than a fusillade of much-less-effective rimfire rounds.

To be deadly with a .22 requires coolness and very-carefully-aimed fire. How likely is that, in a save-your-life situation?

Fictional assassins use .22 weapons. I strongly doubt that real, live ones do.
A one-shot kill with a .22 rimfire depends upon having an assistant hold the victim down while the killer administers a point-blank shot to the medulla oblongata._


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

everybody should own a 22 pistol and 22 rifle
the latest ammo is around 200 ft lbs of energy - this was the standard police round of 200 ft lbs for many years
no it's not the best but the first rule is bring a gun to a gun fight
for home defense in a 22 i would choose a ruger charger or the GSG-5K .22LR MP5-Type Pistol because both of these have clips that hold over 22 rounds


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

hideit said:


> everybody should own a 22 pistol and 22 rifle...


Oh? Are you a philanthropist, offering to buy "everybody" his own .22 RF set?
Some people just can't afford to live up to your standards. Are you going to step up and help them?



hideit said:


> ...the latest ammo is around 200 ft lbs of energy - this was the standard police round of 200 ft lbs for many years...


I don't remember that NYPD's 1930s, .32 Colt load carried merely 200 ft.lbs.; indeed, I think that it carried much more. Most other departments carried .38 Special. Some departments carried .45 "Long" Colt.
Please cite your references and prove your statement.



hideit said:


> ...for home defense in a 22 i would choose a ruger charger or the GSG-5K .22LR MP5-Type Pistol because both of these have clips that hold over 22 rounds


Anyone who consciously chooses a .22 rimfire for "home defense," when there are so many other, more effective, and equally easy to shoot, options available is, in my personal opinion, either at least one taco short of the full combination plate, or a complete neophyte with very little experience and dreams of exaggerated competence.

Are you being contentious merely to stir up an argument?


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Oh? Are you a philanthropist, offering to buy "everybody" his own .22 RF set?
> Some people just can't afford to live up to your standards. Are you going to step up and help them?
> 
> Are you being contentious merely to stir up an argument?


It's just a saying. He doesn't mean it literally -- it's more vernacular than anything else.

******edited by moderator******

kindest regards,
PhilR.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

PhilR. said:


> ...comment removed by moderator
> 
> kindest regards,
> PhilR.


Dear Phil;

Please put me on your "ignore" list.

Thanks,
Steve

(If one makes positive statements which purport to be factual, those statements should be backed up with references to prove the facts averred. If one recommends choosing a .22 rimfire for home defense, stating that the addition of a very-high-capacity magazine makes it into a practical defensive weapon, one has a screw loose.)


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

and that's enough...


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