# Newbie needs your experience



## dukie748 (Sep 24, 2013)

Hello all. Looking for a handgun and thought I'd ask those that know, here's where I am:

Budget - $500ish
For general use / home security
Must be compact as I have smaller hands and my wife will also be using it
Not a big fan of revolvers (no offense intended to revolver-ites)
Either 9mm or .45 but I'm thinking the 9mm might be better, again, wife using it
Must be dependable with manageable recoil and weight, wife etc
Preferably with manual safety

Did consider the Walther PK380 (I know, different caliber) but have read mixed reviews.

At the moment leaning toward the Walther PPS or Springfield XD-S.

Over to you guys - thoughts, recommendations welcomed.


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## goNYG (Apr 4, 2012)

Dispensing with the many qualitative issues you need to consider...
FNH FNX-9
CZ P-07 Duty
CZ P-01
also, H&K P30, but it is not in the $500 swinging zone, but well worth considering spending some more dough.

If you want a full bore discussion of those qualitative issues, pls let us know.


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## Gruesome (Apr 30, 2013)

I have short fingers and I can tell you that you are likely to hit some (small) snags because of that. Most high capacity polymer guns have fat handles and (for me) a long distance from the back of the gun to the trigger. You need to fondle some guns before you make a decision. And even with the small finger problem, a good 2-hadned grip solves the problem pretty quickly. Personally, I felt the need to have something I was comfortable using with one hand should the need arise.

I found the FNX-40 to fit fairly well, and the Beretta Px4 felt very good. The Px4 is more rounded than a lot of them and that may be why. The main reason I bought the FN was because it is made in the USA. Otherwise I would have bought the Px4. An HK felt the best, but that's twice your (and my) budget. A used Browning HiPower might fit the bill. Barring that, a new CZ 75B should be near your range and is similar to the HiPower. I hear a lot of good things about the Ruger SR9 but I have no experience with it.

Some that were definitely too big for me were the Beretta 92, Taurus 809 (maybe? not sure on the model) SIG 2202, Stoeger Cougar (damn shame - I wanted that gun!)

I eventually landed in 1911 land - I found a used Ruger SR1911 that I love to death. I didn't expect that - I wanted a modern polymer hi cap gun - but my hand loves it and I shoot well with it. Even if you think the 1911 is not a viable solution, I suggest you check it out. Turns out there is a reason for it's popularity. 

It doesn't cost you anything to handle the gun for a moment to see how it fits so do a lot of that if you can. Once you narrow it down a little try to rent it to put a few rounds down range.

Good luck, and come back to tell us what you get!
-Gruesome


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## dukie748 (Sep 24, 2013)

Appreciate your input guys - another on the shortlist was the Bersa Thunder 9mm Ultra Compact Pro.


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## Gruesome (Apr 30, 2013)

You may find yourself restricted by what you can find. I have yet to even SEE a Bersa in real life, and it took me months to track down a CZ. The Handgun Information Resource is a whole lot of fun, but you may have trouble finding every last piece. Hopefully I'll see one at the gun show next month.
-Gruesome


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Stay away from the bargains like Bersa,yeah some work but some don't,you are trusting your life on this thing.

What's general use? Home defense as a major purpose means a shotgun,handguns are a compromise if it goes beyond a punk being intimidated by the sight of it.The badasses can soak up handgun ammo and still hurt you.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Get to a major gun show as soon as one comes up in your area and handle as many different guns as you can. This will help a great deal in focusing your candidate list, which you should already have in hand as a result of research. Do this and then try to shoot as many from your list as you can at ranges that rent guns for customer use.

The selection is wide and varied and only you will be able to create that list.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

rex said:


> Stay away from the bargains like Bersa,yeah some work but some don't,you are trusting your life on this thing.
> 
> What's general use? Home defense as a major purpose means a shotgun,handguns are a compromise if it goes beyond a punk being intimidated by the sight of it.The badasses can soak up handgun ammo and still hurt you.


A shotgun for home defense can be a burden, due to it's size and the fact that it can be cumbersome. That and the fact, that one is hard to keep near-by and handy if you have children in the house. Also, if you attempt to clear the house yourself, the muzzle will arrive seconds before you do, making it much easier for the bad guy to grab and club you to death with. Not to mention that you need two hands to keep it under control and if you do encounter a bad guy, he will have as much leverage on it as you will.

I could go on and on, but I think I've made the point that I wanted. Sure, it will work for some, but for the majority, a handgun is better. In close quarters, bigger isn't always better.


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## Jblyth (Nov 19, 2012)

Ditto on the very small hands and it certainly limits options, however you're on the right track. As the OP stated, go tingle some at a gun store then fire them if you can. 

I own the Walther PPS and its my personal favorite. The trigger reach is on the outside of my fit zone, but works very well for me. Many hate the Euro mag release (ambidextrous) but again I love it and due to short thumbs, manipulate almost all of my guns using a left handed (actually right thumbed) mag release. Yes it's backwards but you do what you need to do with small fingers that can't reach the controls on the left side of most guns. 

Others in the same size category are:
M&P 9c (can be found with safeties)
M&P Shield 
Kahr CM9 or CW9 ( shortest trigger reach of any commercial gun in that price range but has a long DAO trigger that takes some getting used to - no safety)
Ruger SR9c - with safety
Maybe... A Gen 4 Glock 19 with small backstrap

I currently own, or have owned and fired all of these. For small hands a 1911 cannot be equaled but not in the price range. 

Happy hunting!


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

S&W M&P Shield 9mm
Shield Weight Loaded

8 round magazine
1lb -- 8.4oz -- 8 rounds
1lb -- 8.9oz -- 9 rounds

7 round magazine
1lb -- 7.5oz -- 7 rounds
1lb -- 8oz -- 8 rounds
M&P Shield

Shield review
Gun Review: Smith & Wesson M&P9 Shield | The Truth About Guns

Shield review
Palm-Size Power: Smith & Wesson M&P Shield Review - Guns & Ammo

Kittery Trading Post has 9mm Shield's in stock(81) and also 40 cal. Shield's(34) both at $399.99 plus $35.00 shipping to your FFL(scroll to bottom of page)
Kittery Trading Post

Kittery is a reputable company. That is where I got my Shield from. My FFL received it 2 days after I ordered it. I paid $429.99 plus shipping in April 2013. It is one sweet weapon and shoots great...


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Jblyth said:


> Ditto on the very small hands and it certainly limits options, however you're on the right track. As the OP stated, go tingle some at a gun store then fire them if you can.
> 
> I own the Walther PPS and its my personal favorite. The trigger reach is on the outside of my fit zone, but works very well for me. Many hate the Euro mag release (ambidextrous) but again I love it and due to short thumbs, manipulate almost all of my guns using a left handed (actually right thumbed) mag release. Yes it's backwards but you do what you need to do with small fingers that can't reach the controls on the left side of most guns.
> 
> ...


The Kahr pistols have a relatively short trigger pull. At 3/8" it is shorter than the Glock trigger. I can't speak for the CW and CM models but I can for the K, P, and PM pistols. When Kahr first came on the market their trigger pull length was 1/2". Then they introduced the "Elite" models with a 3/8" length. Before long, they adopted this trigger pull length to their other guns.


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## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

I am asian and have smaller hands compared to the average Caucasian. Still, I can manage my Glock 17 quite easily.
You might want to try a full-size gun and maybe it won't be a problem for you either.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> A shotgun for home defense can be a burden, due to it's size and the fact that it can be cumbersome. That and the fact, that one is hard to keep near-by and handy if you have children in the house. Also, if you attempt to clear the house yourself, the muzzle will arrive seconds before you do, making it much easier for the bad guy to grab and club you to death with. Not to mention that you need two hands to keep it under control and if you do encounter a bad guy, he will have as much leverage on it as you will.
> 
> I could go on and on, but I think I've made the point that I wanted. Sure, it will work for some, but for the majority, a handgun is better. In close quarters, bigger isn't always better.


You have some good points there that I forget with newbies,I'm not around many at all where I am.

I don't think of the muzzle poking out because it isn't shouldered,someone in a natural stance with a handgun crowding cover turning a corner is poking that thing out there good too.Easily more than an 18" barrel at the hip,but not if you are compressed ready with the handgun.Your average Joe doesn't know how to navigate corners and walls,they always want to crowd them.

Home defense is such a pain to call because there are so many variables involved,you have house layout,other people and penetration,are you up or in bed,is the BG coming in or already in?At least on the street you're already in condition yellow or orange.


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## bj99 (Apr 1, 2013)

Dukie748, I have short fingers, and have Sig P225 9mm. Stay with single stacks, due to your small hands. Very sweet shooters, are the Sigs. You can find single stack Sigs used for less than $500, some around $300. Kimbers have a slim grip too, but are more expensive, and harder to find used. I'm sure other makes are quality firearms, but I favor Kimbers and Sigs! My Kimber 1911 Pro Carry fits my hand like a glove!


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## twocold (Jun 28, 2012)

*I'd stick with the 9mm*



dukie748 said:


> Budget - $500ish
> For general use / home security
> Must be compact as I have smaller hands and my wife will also be using it
> Not a big fan of revolvers (no offense intended to revolver-ites)
> ...


I say stick with 9mm. Light and fast, very very very manageable recoil. If recoil is a dealbreaker stay away from the .40 The higher pressure load (it's even higher pressure than a 45ACP) may be a bit much for smaller framed people to manage in some cases. There's also no such thing as a +P load in .40 because they're all +P

Budget 500? You should find anything in this list either new or used in that ballpark. just be a bit more flexible in your price. When buying firearms, you very much get what you pay for in most cases.

Handguns:
Beretta M-9 aka 92fs - tried and true proven platform. full frame yet fairly slim grip, manual safety
Glock 17 gen 3 - another proven platform - grip not too terribly clunky
Springfield XD 9 service/XDs 9 - double stack (makes for chunkier grip), very reliable. (I carry and compete in IDPA with an XD9 service model)
I won't recommend the XD-M series here for your requests because they are a bit larger than the original XD series, they are,however, worth looking at if you find the grip to your liking and are very good handguns in my experinece
Sig Sauer P-226 - proven platform, full frame, very reliable

For a house gun, I personally say go full frame and here's why:
Something goes bump in the night and jerks you out of a sound sleep. You're not fully awake, aware, or even fully in control of your fine motor skills just yet. In this situation, what makes more sense: trying to get a proper grip on a compact/subcompact with a very short grip, or a full frame which fully fits your hand?

If you're worried about getting your or your wife's hands around the grip, get a single stack. I'm willing to bet even a 1911 would fit either of your hands quite nicely, and they're not exactly small handguns.

Also, if you're worried about over-penetration, punching a wall if god forbid you miss, etc. use frangible loads. They virtually discentigrate on impact just about regardless of what they hit. I keep both my AR and my XD9 loaded with these at home.


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## dukie748 (Sep 24, 2013)

Leaning toward the XDs range or more likely the SW MP 9 or Shield, both fit the bill and have the easiest availability - appreciate your feedback everyone, you have me looking at guns I haven't even considered or was aware of - the great benefit of these forums.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

rex said:


> You have some good points there that I forget with newbies,I'm not around many at all where I am.
> 
> I don't think of the muzzle poking out because it isn't shouldered,someone in a natural stance with a handgun crowding cover turning a corner is poking that thing out there good too.Easily more than an 18" barrel at the hip,but not if you are compressed ready with the handgun.Your average Joe doesn't know how to navigate corners and walls,they always want to crowd them.
> 
> Home defense is such a pain to call because there are so many variables involved,you have house layout,other people and penetration,are you up or in bed,is the BG coming in or already in?At least on the street you're already in condition yellow or orange.


I think it was this forum that I addressed being woken up out of a deep sleep at 0 dark thirty in the middle of the night. You wake up, thinking that you heard something. But, you are not sure. Most will simply lay back down and go to sleep.

And then there are those that simply must get up (like me) and check things out. But I don't just jump out of bed and get at it. I wait a good thirty seconds or so, just listening......*AND* to clear my head. The vast majority that wake up from a sound sleep are very foggy-headed. Then, I swing my legs off the bed and onto the floor and get my sense of balance back (bad knee). Depending on your age, some cannot get out of bed immediately w/o being somewhat unsteady on their feet. I don't yet have an issue with it, but I do like to sit up and get the blood flowing again.

Anyways, my point was that not every criminal is going to enter your house at a time when you are aware and prepared. Usually, it's just the opposite. That's the kicker that we must deal with. Unless your shotgun is a pistol grip model with a somewhat shorter than the usual barrel, it's still going to require two hands to manipulate properly. Most houses have narrow hallways and doorways which will limit movement or require extreme care when wielding a shotgun.

And, if physically attacked, the shotgun will become a liability as far as you being able to keep possession of and maintain control over. Lots of material there to grab onto. A shotgun can be used effectively for home defense, but it's just that you need to be aware of it's requirements for proper use and it's potential negative results.

I've always felt that when taking a firearms course, the subject of protecting one's home should be addressed and covered. There are many points that need to be discussed.


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## KampfJaeger (Sep 25, 2013)

> At the moment leaning toward the Walther PPS or Springfield XD-S.


Both fine choices. I'd give the edge to the Walther (because I don't have one and people I trust rave about them), but I'm liking what Springfield is doing recently, and from my experience there is no arms manufacturer with finer customer service than SA.


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## JerseyJubal (Feb 1, 2013)

Check Gunbroker.com, look at Astra Constable II's (.380), and Star BM 9mm (both hold 8 rds). A seller there located in Maine, Freestatearms, has great service, everyone I know who has bought from him has been satisfied. Currently he has plenty of reasonable (some under $300.00 others under $250.00) military/police turn-in's for sale in .22, .25, .32, .380. 9mm, .45, .38 special revolvers and semi-auto pistols plus .22 caliber rifles and pump action shotguns. It's a virtual candy store of fair priced firearms.

Links:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=367589579

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=367590780

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=367608387

This is just a sample, click to see what else he has in stock.


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## all357mag (May 20, 2013)

S&W M&P 45! Your wife shooting, doesn't make caliber an issue. Shooting has NOTHING to do with size, or strength, inspite of what NO Brains would have you believe! You can tailor the M&P grip for your wife's smaller hands. Practice, no matter what you buy!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I'd also go with the CZ's either P-01 or the CZ 75 compact. The P-01 has an aluminum frame and the CZ 75 compact all steel. You might want to look at the Tristar/Canik line of CZ clones, although I don't know if parts are interchangeable with the real CZ's. They do however feature ambidextrous controls which their CZ counterparts do not have, and are priced about $100 cheaper. In my opinion the CZ's seem to have the right feel, balance and size, a well designed handgun indeed.


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## fotojo (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi just my 2 cent for what it is worth. I have the XD-S 45 that is my primary carry gun, and I love the thing perfect size for easy concealment, but with extended mag good size for enjoyable shooting. I also have Sig P250 C 40c and Smith MP 40


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