# Considering trading out P9 for Sig P365XL



## wyliec2 (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm a long-time Kahr user (P9, PM9, P380).

Whenever I carry the P9, I must make a few considerations to conceal it compared to the smaller PM9 and P380.

I've recently handled a Sig P365XL and it felt better than my P9 which had always been my 'best feeling' gun in hand.

I'm stuck on the idea that if I'm going to carry something larger than the PM9, I could just as easily carry a P365XL with 12+1 capacity versus the P9 with 7+1.

Looking for any thoughts on this potential swap...??? Asking here and on the Sig forum - full disclosure on duplicate posting.

I should add I've had a P229 for over 20 years and find it does everything I could want except fit in my pants.

Thanks for any input!!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

wyliec2 said:


> I'm a long-time Kahr user (P9, PM9, P380).
> 
> Whenever I carry the P9, I must make a few considerations to conceal it compared to the smaller PM9 and P380.
> 
> ...


If you could just as easily carry a P365XL with 12+1 then more is always better. Or even better yet why not buy a P365 where you can use both a 10 round magazine which gives you 10+1 or 12+1 with an extended magazine and finger rest. The P365 is probably the same size as the the Kahr PM9. You can also get 15 round magazines for both the P365 and P365XL those magazines come with finger rest base plates that accommodate both the shorter grip of the P365 and the longer grip of the P365XL. 15-Round Magazines Now Available for SIG SAUER P365 Models

The P365 is about the same size as a Bond Arms derringer. The advantage of the P365 over the P365XL is that you can use the higher capacity 12+1 magazines of the P365XL. The P365 comes with both a flush fitting 10 round magazine and a 10 round magazine with a finger rest. With the larger grip frame of the P365XL you do not have the option of using the 10 round magazines that are better suited for pocket or deep concealed carry. Pistol Magazines | SIG SAUER


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## wyliec2 (Oct 30, 2009)

desertman said:


> If you could just as easily carry a P365XL with 12+1 then more is always better. Or even better yet why not buy a P365 where you can use both a 10 round magazine which gives you 10+1 or 12+1 with an extended magazine and finger rest. The P365 is probably the same size as the the Kahr PM9. You can also get 15 round magazines for both the P365 and P365XL those magazines come with finger rest base plates that accommodate both the shorter grip of the P365 and the longer grip of the P365XL. 15-Round Magazines Now Available for SIG SAUER P365 Models
> 
> The P365 is about the same size as a Bond Arms derringer. The advantage of the P365 over the P365XL is that you can use the higher capacity 12+1 magazines of the P365XL. The P365 comes with both a flush fitting 10 round magazine and a 10 round magazine with a finger rest. With the larger grip frame of the P365XL you do not have the option of using the 10 round magazines that are better suited for pocket or deep concealed carry. Pistol Magazines | SIG SAUER


Thanks for a detailed reply on alternative options! I have considered that I could replace the PM9 with the P365 and have many options. Your reply helped me determine my exact motivation in looking at the P365XL.

For me, the P380 and PM9 are tools for carry depending on season and attire. The P9 always felt 'just right' in my hand and I always enjoyed shooting it. While I regularly shoot the P380 and PM9, it is done with a proficiency purpose versus enjoying handling and firing the P9.

From a practical standpoint, I was seldom motivated to deal with the P9's larger size to only gain a +1 capacity compared to the PM9.

With the P365XL, the equation changes to 12+1 capacity and I'd make more efforts to find comfortable carry methods.

It's more about a gun that feels and shoots good (balance, sight radius, etc.) than simply a tool - I have various extended magazines for the Kahrs but they've never felt 'just right' the way the P9 did with the flush magazine. That's how the P365XL struck me.

Granted, my motivation looking at the P365XL is not 100% purely as a functional tool but as one of my firearms that I always 'want' to shoot and would make greater effort to carry. Realistically, if I only had the guns that made sense as tools, I'd have a lot more space in my gun safe! 

The bottom line question for me is, am I missing something? IIRC I paid around $700 for the P9 back in 2008 or maybe earlier. Now I'm considering replacing it with a $600 gun in 2021 dollars making the P365XL clearly less expensive. In the back of my head, I wonder if I'm giving up something from a quality standpoint...???


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## Higgy Baby (Aug 10, 2021)

Well, I have the Kahr CW9 and the 365. The cw seems lighter in my hand, but has less recoil than the 365. To me- the 365 is a harsh shooting gun. If it were me- I'd consider the XL...."assuming" it has less felt recoil.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

wyliec2 said:


> Thanks for a detailed reply on alternative options! I have considered that I could replace the PM9 with the P365 and have many options. Your reply helped me determine my exact motivation in looking at the P365XL.
> 
> For me, the P380 and PM9 are tools for carry depending on season and attire. The P9 always felt 'just right' in my hand and I always enjoyed shooting it. While I regularly shoot the P380 and PM9, it is done with a proficiency purpose versus enjoying handling and firing the P9.
> 
> ...


You're quite welcome!

It's always great to have options. Kahrs are well made guns. The only one I have is the MK40. My MK40 is just about the same size as my Remington RM 380 which is a copy of the Rohrbaugh 380. Good luck finding a Rohrbaugh 380. The MK40 is pretty heavy for it's size and unfortunately it's a 5+1. Although it came with both a 5+1 flush fit and extended 6+1 magazine with an ugly finger extension. I've often pocket carried it. But I find myself pocket carrying my Glock G27 more often. I like 9+1 of 40 better than 5+1 or 6+1. The G27 although a little more bulky weighs when fully loaded about the same as the MK40 when empty. At least it feels that way when I'm carrying it in my pocket. Of course I always carry them in a pocket holster.

Sig's are also well made guns. I don't think that you'll be giving anything up regarding quality. However with the P365 you also have the option of using different grip modules. Parts, accessories and magazines are widely available from a variety of different aftermarket manufacturers along with Sig. Grip Modules | Parts You don't have as many options with the Kahr. Myself I would keep the PM9 and add a Sig P365 or P365XL to my collection. This way you'll have the best of both world's. If that's not possible and you can only keep one or the other the P365/365XL is a more practical choice. Simply because of the wide availability of parts and accessories for those guns and increased magazine capacity.

I was really surprised that the recoil from such a small light gun is not too bad? Yeah it's a little snappy but I expected it to be a lot worse. I found that it would be easily controllable in a rapid fire self defense type of situation. I found that I could make fast accurate follow up shots for such a small gun.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Higgy Baby said:


> Well, I have the Kahr CW9 and the 365. The cw seems lighter in my hand, but has less recoil than the 365. To me- the 365 is a harsh shooting gun. If it were me- I'd consider the XL...."assuming" it has less felt recoil.


I've never handled or compared a Kahr CW9 to a Sig P365/P365XL but it looks to me like the grip frame is more bulky than the P365/P365XL? If it is that may affect the lighter recoil. Of course a lot of that has to do with an individual's hand size. I'm 6 ft. 175 lbs. My hand size is probably average for a person of my size.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I had a Kaht Pm9 for a while, but never really liked it. Once the Shield came out in 2012, I sold the Kahr a week after buying that Shield. Way less recoil.

So, I say go for it.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have a P365XL and it is a fine little piece. However, if I may offer a suggestion for your consideration; check out the new M&P 9 Shield Plus. Quite a surprise and a good one at that. See what you think of it.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

SouthernBoy said:


> I have a P365XL and it is a fine little piece. However, if I may offer a suggestion for your consideration; check out the new M&P 9 Shield Plus. Quite a surprise and a good one at that. See what you think of it.


Oh yes, I love the Shield Plus. I sold my regular Shields because I love the 3.1" and 4" Plus models so much


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## wyliec2 (Oct 30, 2009)

Thanks for all the input!! I'd already purchased the P365XL by the time the M&P Shield Plus suggestions were made. Comparing the sizes, I think I'm where I wanted to be - the PM9 is smaller and lighter than the Shield Plus 3.1" - and I'm OK with the -4 capacity. The P365XL is smaller than the Shield Plus 4" with a 3.7" barrel and it is likely the absolute maximum size that I will actually carry.

I took the Sig to the range today and put around 150 rounds through it - mixed 115gr, 124gr, 147gr/HP & FMJ/standard and +P without any hiccups at all.

I'd read a review mentioning how stiff the magazine is when loading the last several rounds - fortunately, I had a magazine loader 'thumb' that worked. Rounds 6+ are noticeably stiffer and rounds 11 & 12 are brutal without an assist.

The Day/Nite sites are workable in low light but definitely not as bright as the Trijicons on my PM9 or the SigLites on my P229.

I really like the Sig and am looking forward to putting a couple hundred more rounds through it and receiving the AlienGear holster I ordered!!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Glad to hear it worked out!


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Higgy Baby said:


> Well, I have the Kahr CW9 and the 365. The cw seems lighter in my hand, but has less recoil than the 365. To me- the 365 is a harsh shooting gun. If it were me- I'd consider the XL...."assuming" it has less felt recoil.


Agree, I traded a Shotgun and the owner was short of funds so to make up the difference he asked if it I would consider a trade and he could throw in his 365 XL. I reluctantly said yes and nothing but regrets. Just do not like the gun at all. Way over hyped. I prefer the Kahr CM9's that I own and other Micro's.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I may be strange, but I really don't prefer either of the SIG options...never really been a fan of Sig pistols. I have owned a couple in the past, but don't have them anymore. Great quality guns just the same though.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I am toying with the idea of selling or trading my P365XL Sig. While I will admit that it is a fine little carry gun, I have two problems with it. The magazine at its juncture at the bottom front of the grip tends to pinch my little finger. And when I pull it during my draw/fire drills it most always comes up pointing at the target with a left orientation. None of my other carry guns do this so it is obvious it is just the fit of my hand to the gun.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

berettatoter said:


> I may be strange, but I really don't prefer either of the SIG options...never really been a fan of Sig pistols. I have owned a couple in the past, but don't have them anymore. Great quality guns just the same though.


In past years, I have also not been a fan of Sig pistols and mostly for two reasons. I do not like double action pistols for carry. I much prefer DAO's and in particular striker fired DAO's. Secondly I have found in the past that the bore axis is much too high to my liking, whereas Glocks are pretty much perfect in that regard.

But as most anything in life, it comes down to personal preferences.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> In past years, I have also not been a fan of Sig pistols and mostly for two reasons. I do not like double action pistols for carry. I much prefer DAO's and in particular striker fired DAO's. Secondly I have found in the past that the bore axis is much too high to my liking, whereas Glocks are pretty much perfect in that regard.
> 
> But as most anything in life, it comes down to personal preferences.


Yeah, the SIG 2022 I had, in .40 S&W, seemed to be as tall as a Hi Point.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

berettatoter said:


> I may be strange, but I really don't prefer either of the SIG options...never really been a fan of Sig pistols. I have owned a couple in the past, but don't have them anymore. Great quality guns just the same though.


Yea, I have owned 7 Sigs over the years. And, I have none now, with no plans to buy another....

They aren't bad guns - just not for me. I prefer other brands...


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I just put my P365XL on consignment a week ago. While it is a nice gun. I found that when drawing it quickly, it always, and I mean always, had a left pointing bias. Over the years I have experienced this with a few semi-autos. My guess is that it is just the grip shape and size and my right hand don't tend to line up well. This means that I have to adjust my grip before I fire the gun. In an extreme encounter that could prove disastrous.
And I have an M&P 9 Shield Plus that lines up beautifully when pulled and fired. So the consignment decision was not hard. The M&P Shield Plus stays and the Sig goes.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

SouthernBoy said:


> I just put my P365XL on consignment a week ago. While it is a nice gun. I found that when drawing it quickly, it always, and I mean always, had a left pointing bias. Over the years I have experienced this with a few semi-autos. My guess is that it is just the grip shape and size and my right hand don't tend to line up well. This means that I have to adjust my grip before I fire the gun. In an extreme encounter that could prove disastrous.
> And I have an M&P 9 Shield Plus that lines up beautifully when pulled and fired. So the consignment decision was not hard. The M&P Shield Plus stays and the Sig goes.


I know exactly what you mean.

I bought a Springfield XD-E the week they first came out. I got rid of it after the very first range trip. I had to try to hard to shoot it accurately. I could, but it took too much effort and too much worrying about the grip.

Same thing with the Glock 45 I bought earlier this year. I can grab my G19 from the holster, and it is lined up fine and accurate. The G45 grip is just a tad too big for my hands - I had the same issue you had with your Sig.

At a range for target practice - it isn't a big deal. But for a self defense gun, it can be.

My two S&W Shield Plus models line up perfectly, the grip works, and they are accurate.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> I know exactly what you mean.
> 
> I bought a Springfield XD-E the week they first came out. I got rid of it after the very first range trip. I had to try to hard to shoot it accurately. I could, but it took too much effort and too much worrying about the grip.
> 
> ...


I have a Glock 45 and it works well for me but I doubt if I'll ever carry it. Never know for certain but with my G19's, my gen4 and gen5 are top notch. The near perfect compact carry pistol, along with their big brother the wonderful G23. Another outstanding carry gun for me is my M&P 40c. Love it. It replaced a Glock 30S which for some reason I couldn't shoot worth a damn. The 40c is excellent and with the Apex Tactical DCAEK installed (kept the OEM factory trigger spring) I have another piece of carry perfection.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> I just put my P365XL on consignment a week ago. While it is a nice gun. I found that when drawing it quickly, it always, and I mean always, had a left pointing bias. Over the years I have experienced this with a few semi-autos. My guess is that it is just the grip shape and size and my right hand don't tend to line up well. This means that I have to adjust my grip before I fire the gun. In an extreme encounter that could prove disastrous.
> And I have an M&P 9 Shield Plus that lines up beautifully when pulled and fired. So the consignment decision was not hard. The M&P Shield Plus stays and the Sig goes.


Yeah, that 18 degree grip, along with the "roundness" of the grip handle, works well for me too.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

berettatoter said:


> Yeah, that 18 degree grip, along with the "roundness" of the grip handle, works well for me too.


I also find that Glocks, specifically their compact versions like the G19 and G23, pull and line up fine for me with no having to adjust my grip. Same for all of my M&P's. But not a Beretta 92FS (would never carry a DA pistol anyway). One has to wade through the really great selection of pistols to find the ones that work for them.


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