# Doing my homework, now need more suggestions



## thafemann (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello all,

I have been reading all over the place concerning suggestions on which handgun to purchase. The number one thing that everyone says is to go shoot all kinds of guns to find out which one is best for you, and you like. So, I did. 

I shot about 500 rounds on 35 guns. While I didn't find out what I liked, I did find out what I didn't like.

I didn't see or feel much difference between a 9mm and a 40cal. I wasn't fond of the 45cal, 38, or 357. 45 and 357 seems like more than I would need, 38 seems like less than I would want. I could do either 9mm or 40 cal and could be convinced by any reason to go with one over the other. More ammo available, more access, etc.

Let me add, I am looking for a Conceal and Carry gun for self protection. I am looking for something to conceal and not intrusive, but is not too much to handle when shooting. I want small, but want it to act and feel like a full size. I know, asking for a miracle.

I did not like the single action or double/single action. I like the smooth squeeze of the DAO. I know, not as reliable as the single or double/single. I don't like having to pull back the hammer.

and while I liked shooting the Ruger, I don't like the grip safety type.

I thought I wanted a compact or subcompact gun, but I really, really didn't like shooting a gun that I could not get my whole hand around. Two fingers were not enough for me. 

I originally thought and looked at the Kahr PM 9 and PM40. I didn't get to shoot those two, but I did get to shoot a Glock 17, 19 23, 26, 27. Even though many people said I would love the subcompact and compact, but I didn't. I also shot a bunch of SW-M&P, SigSaur, and Beretta. My favorite so far was SW990L

So....Now that you know what I don't like, what else should I try


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

HK P30
HK P2000
Beretta PX4 
Beretta PX4 Compact
CZ75
CZ75 P01
CZ75 P07
CZ2075
FNX-9
FNX-40


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## thafemann (Apr 11, 2013)

*Thank you for the suggestions.*

Thank you. I will take a look at these guns. Thankfully, there is an indoor shooting range with rental guns just 10 miles from me.

Tom


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

You shot 35 handguns and couldn't pick one you liked?

Your a tough customer, lol.

Doubt shooting more will help make it easier.

What was your top 5 out of the 35?


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## thafemann (Apr 11, 2013)

Well,

I went in thinking that when I shoot a few guns it would be like picking up different types of pencils. A pencil is a pencil is a pencil. By the time I got through about 15 guns, I began to realize that I should have been taking notes as I went along. I began to see and feel the differences, and, well, I kinda got lost when I was shooting as to which ones that I liked to shoot. But then I got drawn back to what I would be using the gun for. I want to carry it and conceal it. 

The best gun, I think, was the Smith and Wesson, M&P and M&P compact (40cal). I just thought they were too big to carry. I did like a Ruger something or other, and an HK. The Ruger LC9, surprisingly, shot very well, was small, and I had a tight group at 20 yards. I really disliked the palm grip safety. And the small guns had the side crimson tide laser, where the larger than the front laser option. I like the front laser option, but I didn't like that I had to turn it on to use it. I suspect that in a situation, I am not going to think about turning on the laser first. That is why the grip laser seemed more attractive, except it is on the side and not inline.

I am going to go back to the store tomorrow and spend another $150 shooting guns and taking notes. And here was the strange thing. They had all of these guns for rent ($12 per hour per lane, $8 for gun rental as many as I could shoot, and then ammo). 

Yes, I am the customer from hell, but I am nice about it and am willing to pay. I spent 2 months doing research for my car, drove about 30 cars, and eventually bought a Toyota Avalon. I just want to be informed and happy with my purchases. There are WAY too many guns and options for me. I think what I want is what everyone wants. I nice shooting gun, small, lightweight, easy to conceal and carry, and doesn't hurt to shoot or jump all over the place.

Thanks for you input


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## InspectorMark (Mar 22, 2013)

I have the M&P .40c. It seams like a big gun but is does conceal nicely. When the magazine with the small base plate is in the gun the butt is much smaller. I have found the the best way to conceal it is to use a holster that in inside the pants or at least inside your belt. Your belt really hold the gun tight to your body so your shirt hangs over it nicely. With jeans and a tee or golf shirt you can not tell I am carrying a gun. The key is to wear the gun everyday until you are not even aware it's on you.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Have you shot a Hi-Point yet? :mrgreen:

Seriously, don't over-think the choice. Chances are very good, you *WON'T* find the perfect gun the first time out.

Stick to a good brand. Choose the caliber and size of gun you want. Within a year (or less) of ownership, you'll be shopping for another firearm.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

I don't think there is a "perfect" gun... I believe this cuz I keep buying em', lol.

...and I like them all for the different things (features/performance) they bring to the table.

I have several guns which serve different purposes because no "one gun" fits every situation.

Hope your able to narrow it down and decide on a "first" gun... because there will likely be many more down the road.


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## shaggyG21 (Apr 12, 2013)

I agree with TAPnRACK. I have several, and each fits its need. Just "Don't leave home without "


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Good luck on finding the right weapon......


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Thinking back, the very first semi-auto I purchased, was a Beretta 92FS. 

I'm thinking I hit the nail right on the head. :smt083


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

*"I did not like the single action or double/single action. I like the smooth squeeze of the DAO. I know, not as reliable as the single or double/single. I don't like having to pull back the hammer."
*

I'm not sure where you get this from because I can tell you that a good DAO is just as reliable as any single or double action pistol.

You've certainly been doing your homework; much more, it appears, than most folks just starting out in this venture. On your next trip to the range, try to shoot a Kahr K9, K40, and a T9. These are larger than their PM, Cm, and MK series but are very slim and conceal very well, especially the K9 and K40.

You mentioned the M&P Smiths. These are fine guns and in their compact versions, do conceal nicely. You can even conceal a full size with the 4.25" barrel with the right clothes. Good luck in your continued search and keep us abreast of how it goes.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

TAPnRACK said:


> I don't think there is a "perfect" gun... I believe this cuz I keep buying em', lol....


I disagree, with exactly the same reason. I KNOW the perfect gun is out there, because I have purchased it several times.

The first "perfect gun" was a Springfield Defender .45ACP;
the next "perfect gun" was a Star Firestar .40 S&W;
the next "perfect gun" was a CZ85B
and so on, and so on, until I found the ultimate "perfect gun," a Beretta PX4 Compact.
So now I'm satisfied, right? Well, I was until I acquired the most recent ultimate "perfect gun," an HK P30S.

So, you see what I mean...the "perfect gun" is out there, and no matter what weapon you select, your next "perfect gun" will be there when you are ready to find it.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

The perfect gun will hold at least 50 rds., be utterly and completely dead-on reliable, will never wear out, will retain 100% of it's value, will not need any after-market add-ons, will be appealing to all, and most important of all.......will be free for the asking.

That my friends, is *THE* perfect gun. :smt1099


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## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

I don't understand the grip safety issue on Ruger. My SR40 doesn't have one. It's probably the versatile gun out there. G23, XDS40, SD40... Whole bunch of equivalents. I like the feel of the Ruger best.


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## thafemann (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello all,

I went back to the shooting range and another gun shop to look at different guns. I shot a few guns. Everything in their rental case they didn't have in stock. I took notes this time on things I liked and didn't like about particular guns. I wrote down the guns that I like and am going to look for and kinda settled on this list, in this order:

1. S&W M&P Shield. I like that it is single stack so even though it is a bigger gun, it doesn't have the feel. At the gun shop I looked, I would be #65 on a waiting list which could be 6-9 months. I like that I can put the Crimson Trace on the rail.
2. Kahr CW-40. It has a bit of a jump compared to the Shield, but it feels really good in my hand.
3. Kahr K-40. Nice gun, just not as nice as the CW-40.
4. Springfield XDS. It also felt good to shoot.

Now, everyone says to stand in line and wait. I've been on this journey for about 2 years now. I'll get hot on it and think I have picked a gun from the advice of others (without shooting) and then I find someone who says something bad about the gun. Having actually shot these guns and defining what I am going to do with it, exactly, I think I am good with this list. And, if I ever want to just go plink and have something in the house for protection, I think I will go look for a larger gun, but not the Hi-Point. That was a CHEAP gun, heavy, and kinda scary to shoot.

@Smitty 79. I was wrong about the Ruger. It was a different gun. I went back today and looked at it and it wasn't there. It was checked out.

@Paratrooper, I'll take two please. 

As far as the reliability, I've been to about 6 gun stores so far, 3 of them said that the most reliable gun is the revolver. The second most reliable are the ones that the trigger pulls back the hammer each time. That way if there were ever a misfire, you could literally pull the trigger again and hope it fires. However, my experience has been that if there is a misfire, hitting it again isn't going to make it fire. And the least reliable, they said was the DAO types. But having fired 800 rounds now, I haven't had a single misfire. Luck, maybe. New fresh ammo in a box probably is the answer.

Thank you all for the conversation and help. What do you think of my choices?

Tom


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

thafemann said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I went back to the shooting range and another gun shop to look at different guns. I shot a few guns. Everything in their rental case they didn't have in stock. I took notes this time on things I liked and didn't like about particular guns. I wrote down the guns that I like and am going to look for and kinda settled on this list, in this order:
> 
> ...


Sorry......they're on back-order.


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## thafemann (Apr 11, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Sorry......they're on back-order.


So, I'll still stand in line.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

thafemann said:


> As far as the reliability, I've been to about 6 gun stores so far, 3 of them said that the most reliable gun is the revolver. The second most reliable are the ones that the trigger pulls back the hammer each time. That way if there were ever a misfire, you could literally pull the trigger again and hope it fires. However, my experience has been that if there is a misfire, hitting it again isn't going to make it fire. And the least reliable, they said was the DAO types. But having fired 800 rounds now, I haven't had a single misfire. Luck, maybe. New fresh ammo in a box probably is the answer.
> 
> Tom


I would suggest to you, and I know others on this site would as well, that gun shop employees can be among the most misleading and uninformed people you can encounter. You would naturally think otherwise but you'd be amazed at some of the things they tell people. And if you're new to all of this, you would take what they tell you as gospel... after all, they work in a gun shop and are swimming in all of this everyday. But trust me, that is not the case with so many of them.

This statement is just downright in error;

*"And the least reliable, they said was the DAO types."*

Think about all of the pistols out there which fall into this category (DAO) and then think about how their reliability stacks up to a double action or a single action pistol. The action type designation of a pistol or revolver is determined by just one thing; the task(s) the trigger performs. That's it. So many people want to include things like slides, strikers/hammers, and even magazines in this classification, but it is what the trigger does that determines the action type of the handgun.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Concealment is the next hurdle,lol. I can only imagine how big your box of holsters will be.
Do they rent holsters?


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## johnr (Jun 13, 2008)

pic said:


> Concealment is the next hurdle,lol. I can only imagine how big your box of holsters will be.
> Do they rent holsters?


Pic beat me to getting my thoughts on the forum

I bought my first gun as a plinker, a sig Mosquito, love the gun, fun to shoot

my second gun was a FNP9, even finding a spot in the car for the full sized gun in holster was difficult

my next gun was a S&W 357 model 60, snub nose. An inside the waste band holster, was comfortable.

working construction, this option seems odd. Phone, tape measure, and gun, i will be lopsided for sure. and i am not certain my activity would keep the weapon holstered or concealed.

most of my co workers that conceal carry, have switched to a small "pocket carry" 380 or 32

while these calibers are not one shot stoppers like a 45 or 40, i am sure their concealment keep them feeling comfortable and safe.

While looking for a gun, keep in mind "how will I carry this?" holster shopping is as much fun as gun shopping.

TYMLL
John


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

johnr said:


> Pic beat me to getting my thoughts on the forum
> 
> I bought my first gun as a plinker, a sig Mosquito, love the gun, fun to shoot
> 
> ...


Absolutely spot on correct.


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## thafemann (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello all,

I have been to Cabella's, Gander Mountain gun world, and 3 local gun shops. You are right. I have gotten advice all over the map concerning gun purchase for conceal/carry. I am getting the idea that there isn't a right or wrong answer to the question, but rather what I am comfortable with carrying and shooting.

Not one gun shop was interested in talking to me about how I might carry the gun. In fact, one store didn't have holsters and told me to go online to find one. I hoped to find one that might help set me up with "the package", but alas, there isn't one.

After a day of thinking about it, and going back to the range to shoot, I still like the S&W M&P Shield. For giggles, I shot the Walther PPS40. That too is a pretty sweet shooting gun. I like the drop of the magazine from the trigger guard, the smooth loading, and the easy disassembly. If there was one dislike about the Shield it would be that there was a thumb safety, where the Kahr doesn't have one.

So, I put my name on a waiting list. It just so happened that they got 2 Shield's in today. I am now #63 on their list.

Thanks again.

Tom


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

The shield could be pocket carried . I like a thumb safety on a pocket carry. But some don't.


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