# The showdown: .44 Magnum vs. .45 Colt



## PanaDP

So I am idly (for now) considering a larger caliber blackhawk to keep my .357 company. I would get it in the 7 1/2 barrel length. The gun would be used for a lot of target shooting and plinking but also, potentially, for hunting. Whatever I chose, I would reload for the caliber.

What would be your choice and why? Any information of pertinence would be appreciated.

PanaDP:smt1099


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## Charlie

My choice would be the .45 Colt in a blued 7 1/2" Bisley. Although I like the .44 mag. also, there's just something about a big ole' .45. You can load it up or down to suit your needs. It's inexpensive and comes with adjustable sights. The Bisley grip really fits my hand better than the "plow handle" on the Blackhawk. Check out the link: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firea...amid=11&variation=Blued&bct=Yes&type=Revolver :smt023


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## Bowhunter57

PanaDP,
The 45 Colt is more romantic, but the 44 Mag. is more practical, popular, powerful, etc. The 45 Colt brass is thinner walled, due to its' original design of being a black powder cartridge and therefore will not last as long as 44 Mag. brass.

44 Mag. brass can be loaded straight out of the reloading manual with 44 Special loads, for target or plinking. Ofcourse, the 44 Mag. can be loaded with its' well known "full house" loads for deer, bear, boar, etc.

Should you decide to sell a 44 Mag., it will be easier to move, than a 45 Colt.

Don't get me wrong, a 45 Colt is a capable cartridge, but a 44 Mag. has a larger selection of ammo availbility, bullet choices, manufacturer brands, and action availbility (semi-auto, double & single, etc.)

Even with all this info, the decision is in the hands of the individual.  A 45 Colt can do what the 44 Mag. can do, so it all boils down to a personal choice. :smt023

Good luck with your choices!
Good hunting, Bowhunter57


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## Guest

The 44 mag gives you the options of loading up for hunting or down with 44 Sp for target and general plinking. I have a SBH in 44 mag and use it for hunting deer in NH.


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## Charlie

Now be aware guys that the .45 Colt can be loaded to .44 Special specs (without cutting down any brass) or ....... it can be loaded to .44 Mag. specs (or close), all in the same cases. I love my .44 Mags (I own two) but why load two different cases for the same caliber gun when with the .45 Colt you can just load it mild or hot for the same effect. Just my $.02.


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## PanaDP

Bowhunter57 said:


> PanaDP,
> The 45 Colt is more romantic, but the 44 Mag. is more practical, popular, powerful, etc. The 45 Colt brass is thinner walled, due to its' original design of being a black powder cartridge and therefore will not last as long as 44 Mag. brass.


I have heard that .45 colt brass is the same thickness as all other brass these days, that the thinner walled stuff is a thing of the long past. Anyone know for sure? I know my Dad has loaded some .45 colt that felt a whole lot hotter than factory .44 magnum.


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## Baldy

Here's the shinney on the .45 colt. You can load it up or down the scale but stay with in it's range. It's the hog hunters around here who blow up more .45's than anything. They try to make it into a .44mag. There's a gun shop down here that gets about 4 to 5 guns a year from these old boys who think it takes a stick of dynomite to kill a hog or deer. The .45 colt is a great old cartridge just give it some respect. If you need more get a .44mag. Good luck. :smt1099


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## Charlie

Baldy said:


> Here's the shinney on the .45 colt. You can load it up or down the scale but stay with in it's range. It's the hog hunters around here who blow up more .45's than anything. They try to make it into a .44mag. There's a gun shop down here that gets about 4 to 5 guns a year from these old boys who think it takes a stick of dynomite to kill a hog or deer. The .45 colt is a great old cartridge just give it some respect. If you need more get a .44mag. Good luck. :smt1099


+1 with Baldy all the way!!! :smt023


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## Bob Wright

In my experience, assuming you are considering a Ruger Blackhawk/Super blackhawk, there is very little difference between the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt, IF carefully handloaded.

The .44 Magnum works best with bullets of nominal to light weight. The .45 Colt works best with bullets of nominal to heavy weight.

The .44 Magnum shines when used for deer to groundhogs, at moderate to long (handgun) ranges. The .45 for up-close heavy game, deer to elk, moose, buffalo.

Bear in mind, most other brands of revolvers, other than Ruger, in .45 Colt, are copies of the old Colt Single Action Army, and are not built for heavy handloads. The .44 Magnums of the same brands are of magnum size frames. In older Smiths, stick with near factory duplication loads in .45 Colt.

Either cartridge can be made to do the task at hand, given a Ruger or similar revolver. There are some older German made single actions that are rugged guns, but look like a mud fence.

Bob Wright


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## txpete

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_Bisley45.htm

"The great thing about the .45 Colt in modern cases as compared to the .44 Magnum is that the .45 Colt can be loaded to more power with less pressure than the .44 magnum. That is not a misprint. The .45 Colt properly loaded is more powerful than the .44 magnum. The .44 Magnum is still a great cartridge, but it takes much more pressure to push a 325-grain bullet to the speed of a 325-grain bullet in the .45 Colt. I must stress that these heavy-loaded forty-fives are not for guns such as the Smith & Wesson N-frames or Colt Single actions or their copies. These guns are very good, but cannot handle a steady diet of 325 grain bullets pushed in excess of 1300 feet per second as can the stronger Ruger revolvers."

if you have the time read this article.
pete


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## mccoy

txpete said:


> http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_Bisley45.htm
> 
> "I must stress that these heavy-loaded forty-fives are not for guns such as the Smith & Wesson N-frames or Colt Single actions or their copies. These guns are very good, but cannot handle a steady diet of 325 grain bullets pushed in excess of 1300 feet per second as can the stronger Ruger revolvers."
> 
> if you have the time read this article.
> pete


Interesting piece.

what I would like to do (when my finances will allow me) is to use more or less hot .45 loads in the S & W 460XVR. Probably at the time Jeff Quinn wrote his article such revolver was not on the market yet.

I saw and tried it in dry fire, so beefy that .45 colt would feel probably like mild .38 sp's fired in a .357 revo. Also, comfy grip and good DA.

besides, the 460 is also loadable with .454 casull and the powerful .460 S&W.

With the possibility to adjust the loads in each one of the 3 calibers allowed, the choices become almost limitless.


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## neophyte

*Rugers*

mccoy: Sir; I agree with most of your repliers. Just for considerations.
The .44 is an outstanding round; forgiving and popular at the local gun store or; as we have here "country" store. 
.45's are not as popular and giving we may have to drive some distance; and ???forget??? or run out of ammo.
For around here I can and do go into country to big city stores for ammo.
Additionally; Rugers .44 Magnums can and do take beatings with ?heavy? loads; and wait for more.
7 1/2" for hunting and plinking. You've just had a good day.


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## txpete

the .429 mag is a great round:mrgreen: its just to a handloader .452 does it better:smt023.if you don'y handload go with a 44 mag.
99% of what I shoot is 8.5-9.0 grs unique with my cast 250 gr lfn bullet.there isn't anything here in texas that it won't drop.the ruger t/c only loads are nice but not really needed unless going after big game like elk bear ect.
we need to do a poll and find out how many people have gone on a hunting trip and forgot the ammo bet it is a thin list.
pete


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## DJ Niner

Well, I suppose I'm gonna have to be the fly in the punch, here, but I think the .44 is a better cartridge, AND a better choice in the guns he's talking about, and I'll even tell you why (if you can wade through all the stuff that follows).

First, I think I'll address some of the points in this article; both those quoted below, and some that weren't:


txpete said:


> http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_Bisley45.htm
> 
> "The great thing about the .45 Colt in modern cases as compared to the .44 Magnum is that the .45 Colt can be loaded to more power with less pressure than the .44 magnum. That is not a misprint. The .45 Colt properly loaded is more powerful than the .44 magnum. The .44 Magnum is still a great cartridge, but it takes much more pressure to push a 325-grain bullet to the speed of a 325-grain bullet in the .45 Colt. I must stress that these heavy-loaded forty-fives are not for guns such as the Smith & Wesson N-frames or Colt Single actions or their copies. These guns are very good, but cannot handle a steady diet of 325 grain bullets pushed in excess of 1300 feet per second as can the stronger Ruger revolvers."
> 
> if you have the time read this article.
> pete


First, I have to ask how this guy is measuring this "power" that he refers to. He says that the .44 requires more pressure to get a 325 grain bullet going at the same speed (probably true -- addressed below), but if you can get both bullets going the same speed, and they have the same weight, then they have the same "power" if you're using kinetic energy as your measure. If you are somehow using bullet diameter as a measure of power, then you have to ask a question: if you need a heavy bullet moving at 1300+ FPS, what are you probably trying to do? In most cases, you are trying to penetrate as deeply as possible into a large animal, and if that's the case, then I have bad news for the .45 fans. If a .452-.454 bullet weighing 325 grains, and a .429 bullet (the .44 mag's actual bullet diameter) weighing 325 grains are both moving at the same speed, and both are similarly constructed of hard-cast lead, the .44 is almost certainly going to penetrate deeper in almost any medium, because it has better sectional density. Think of dropping a 16-pound bowling ball and a 16-pound steel rod about 2" in diameter from a height of 10 feet into the same soft dirt; which is going to penetrate deeper? The steel rod is, of course, because all it's weight/mass is concentrated into a smaller surface area; it has to push less dirt out of the way, so it keeps going deeper into the dirt. So, what is this measure of "power" that he is using? If you figure it out, let me know.

Now, to address the pressure situation. Yes, the .44 will probably need more pressure to get that same weight bullet moving at the same velocity, for a related reason to the discussion above; because it is smaller diameter, for a given weight, the .44 bullet will be longer than the .45 bullet. This longer bullet has a longer bearing surface touching the barrel, so it has more friction to overcome. Fortunately, the .44 has more available pressure to safely work with than the .45 ever will, because of the thicker cylinder walls. In the article, even the writer admits the .44 cylinder is stronger, although I'd like to know where he got his figures on how MUCH stronger it is. But even if we take him at his word (that the .45 cylinder is 80% as strong as the .44 cylinder), then he has to admit the .44 will ALWAYS have an advantage in safe use of pressure. He gets around admitting this advantage by claiming that "...the .45 has the strength required for heavy loads." (in the caption showing both cylinders side-by-side, near the bottom of the page, on the right).

On the subject of strength, he states " The .45 Ruger cylinder is at least eighty percent as strong as the .44 magnum Ruger cylinder, and the frames are the same." I wonder if he really knows what he's saying, right there? If the frames are the same, as in the same size, it means that the hole in the front of the frame for the barrel is the same for both calibers. This means the .44 barrel can be made thicker in the critical forcing cone area at the rear of the barrel, to better dissipate heat and resist cracking at it's thinnest points. If he means the frames are the same EXCEPT for the hole in the front, and the .45 is larger, then the frames are NOT the same when it comes to strength and the amount of support the barrel receives from the frame at that critical juncture. A bigger hole in the same size piece of metal means less metal around the hole.

Combine this with better bullet selection across a wider range of weights, all .44 bullets having a cannelure/crimping groove properly located for use in the .44 mag cartridge (not so with some .45 bullets originally intended for use with autoloading pistol cartridges or other proprietary ammo), and the huge range of factory loads in both .44 magnum and .44 special (which can be safely fired in any .44 mag revolver) for the non-handloader, and the .44 is the clear winner, just about any way you slice it.


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## txpete

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=1

Why go to the trouble of handloading hot 45 Colt rounds instead of just shooting 44 magnums? Three reasons, caliber, bullet weight and presure. Obviously a 45 is bigger than a 44, and with that increase comes heavier bullets. The heaviest practical bullet for the 44 mag is right around 300 grains, with the 45 Colt in these revolvers you can easily go up to 350. So the two things that you can always count on, bullet diameter and weight, beat the 44 mag. Since you never really know how long your shot will be you can't count on any specific velocity. The third aspect, presure, is also held by the 45 Colt. As it has a significantly larger case, roughly 11%, it can do what the 44 mag does with less presure. Why? What moves the bullet down the barrel? A volume of expanding gas. Since the 45 Colt case is larger it gives us more powder, thus more gas to push the bullet. So we can either have less presure and push the bullet at the same speed as a 44 mag, or have the same presure and push it faster. Most people who hot load the 45 Colt take the former route and go with less presure, but larger bullets.

To be honest the 45 Colt isn't perfect for everybody. For one thing, and this is important. If you have a medium frame 45 Colt for your carry piece or Colt SAA or clone you MUST be certain you never allow your hot magnum level loads to be fired in it. If you do and you're lucky you might escape with only being injured. This is one of the strengths of the 44special/mag combo, since the hot loads won't chamber it's easier to ensure that this situation never arises. With that in mind I still belive that the 45 Colt is the most versitle round available today. If I were limited to a single caliber I wouldn't hesitate to pick the 45 Colt, I'd have a Taurus medium frame for concealed carry, a 6" Anaconda for field/hunting/sport shooting and a lever action rifle for the times when I wanted to hunt, or just plink at longer ranges. Of course a custom bolt action chambered for the 45 Colt does have posibilities...but that would be the subject of another article.


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## mccoy

Craig,
I sure agree about the ready availability of the .44s.
in many factory loads
My thoughts about the .45 colt and higher calibers are mainly restricted to handloaders, once you buy a coupla boxes and a good stock of bullets (or cast your own), primers and powder, then you can shoot them even 20-30times around, without even thinking about going to the store.
And have fun with your loading recipes (within reason).


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## Don357

One thing that wasn't mentioned was RECOIL. When loaded to "equal" power, the .45Colt has much less recoil than the .44mag. Less recoil means less muzzel jump and quicker re-acquisition of target, also less strain on your gun. 

Just a thought!


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## PanaDP

Listening to your guys and from reading a lot, I think the .45 colt is for me. It also helps that my Dad already has a gun and loads for that caliber.


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## Bob Wright

Don357 said:


> One thing that wasn't mentioned was RECOIL. When loaded to "equal" power, the .45Colt has much less recoil than the .44mag. Less recoil means less muzzel jump and quicker re-acquisition of target, also less strain on your gun.
> 
> Just a thought!


Whoa! With velocity and bullets weights being equal in the same gun, the .45 will kick slightly more. Why?

The .45, in the same model gun, will be slightly lighter, more steel being removed for the larger cartridge. This will generate more recoil
as recoil is relative to the weight being put into motion, in both directions, the weight of the gun versus the bullet weight.

In the same gun model, as caliber decreases, the gun weight increases.

Bob Wright


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## Bob Wright

And one other thing, which Elmer Keith touched on long ago: chamber wall thickness. The .44 will have greater metal thickness in the cylinder and forcing cone areas.

Cylinders can, and do, bulge. And Barrel forcing cones do crack.

The more steel, the better.

Bob Wright


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## txpete

true but I will add that over the years in several ruger 45 colts I have pushed my fair share of "ruger only" loads with my cast bullets.zero problems.ditto on my rugers in 44 mag and recoil was stiff in both.
keep to the spec's in the reloading books and the ruger 45 colt has plenty of power.if you need more than that get a 454:smt023.


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## DJ Niner

txpete said:


> ...
> keep to the spec's in the reloading books and the ruger 45 colt has plenty of power.if you need more than that get a 454:smt023.


Good advice, right there.


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## GSSP

Even though PanaDP has made up his mind to go with the 45, best choice IMHO, I wanted to add something from the the big gun guru, John Linebaugh. This should help solidify your decision and to give you a warm fuzzy:supz:

Here is the link,

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

Though the article surrounds the S&W 25 he makes a few points for the 45 over the 44.

1. "While I have nothing against the .41 or .44 magnum calibers I prefer the .45 for these two main reasons.

First, it simply packs more punch due to bullet weight and caliber, "the only constants we have in external ballistics," and the gun is slightly lighter due to the bigger holes drilled in the barrel and cylinder."

2. "Perhaps some will wonder why I would choose the .45 over the mighty .44 magnum and loose the power advantage. In our testing over the years we have proven in pressure barrels using the copper crusher method that the .45 Colt cartridge will do anything the .44 magnum round will do with 5,000 to around 10,000 PSI less pressure depending on the load and bullet weight combination. This is not a great secret, its just a matter of capacity."

3. "The bigger case holds more powder, generates more gas upon ignition and has more steam to push the slug down the barrel, and more capacity gives the gas more room to work in "more comfortably" so to speak. Overall this keeps the pressure level lower for each unit of velocity. Bigger cartridges simply give us more speed and power for less pressure. It may surprise many but the cylinder on the S&W .45 Colt is the same diameter as the Ruger Blackhawk. The webs (between chambers) and outside chamber wall are also the same."

4. In reference to a 310 gr Keith style bullet @ 1200 fps......"I know for a fact this load will go through elk like cheese at long range. I don't mean to be beating a dead horse but velocity does not buy us power. Instead it buys us trajectory and range. At handgun ranges I'm not sure we need an abundance of either."

5. "The difference in chamber pressure makes up for the difference in mechanical strength in the guns. The .45 just isn't quite as strong mechanically as the .44 magnum in the cylinder, but in turn the .45 does any equal amount of work with less pressure. It all balances out."


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## hideit

*i'd choose the 44mag*



txpete said:


> http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_Bisley45.htm
> 
> "The great thing about the .45 Colt in modern cases as compared to the .44 Magnum is that the .45 Colt can be loaded to more power with less pressure than the .44 magnum. That is not a misprint. The .45 Colt properly loaded is more powerful than the .44 magnum. The .44 Magnum is still a great cartridge, but it takes much more pressure to push a 325-grain bullet to the speed of a 325-grain bullet in the .45 Colt. I must stress that these heavy-loaded forty-fives are not for guns such as the Smith & Wesson N-frames or Colt Single actions or their copies. These guns are very good, but cannot handle a steady diet of 325 grain bullets pushed in excess of 1300 feet per second as can the stronger Ruger revolvers."
> 
> My story is that I did just that around 1979 for a ruger blackhawk. Followed the manual and loaded about 12 cartridges.
> at the range the the recoil was very firm. after 6 rounds i took out the cartridges with some effort. Upon inspection the cases were buldged near the bottom. i did not shoot the other 6 and felt lucky that i survived the 6 i shot.
> later a guy at the LGS informed me that it was probably due to too much crimp.
> I will never handload a 45lc to above the max factory round - just too unsafe for me. If you like the .45 cal and want higher energies then get the S&W 460mag.
> i think, that in today's world, the 45lc is best for SASS, Single Action Quuick Draw, and SD if you like the SA revolver.
> I'd rather have the 44mag for ease of ammo availability, so many different energy ranges of commercial loads. I have a spreadsheet of all commercial loads available and last count there were 28 different energy loads available from 44 special to the hottest 44mag available.
> 
> thats all


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## hideit

txpete said that the 45 could be loaded to same energy levels as the 44mag and I resonded to my experience yesterday.
TODAY i thought further on his comment and studied the midwayusa ammo listings available for the 45LC
To my surprise there are some loads that are commercially available that do indeed equal the 44mag. 

Does anybody have any experience with the Grizzly ammo?

i have on my wish list a ruger single action in 44 or 45 - i am leaning toward the 44mag
why - as i see it - safety (on three fronts) and 
more commercially variably ammo and easier to find.


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## JeffWard

How much $ per 100 for handloaded 45 Long Colt (aprox)?
How much $ per 100 for handloaded 460 S&W Mag (aprox)?

I still might buy one of these big X-Frame monsters. There's lots of them around used now under $1K. I guess the original owner didn't enjoy them much...

LOL

JeffWard


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## kevin_hanna333

*.45*

I don't know why everyone is saying .44 mag is more "readily available" than .45 because for just about ANY pistol chambered in .45 Colt, you can buy a .45 ACP cylinder. Now that's what I call readily available, better for plinking, and cheaper. Plus, .45 Colt can be loaded just as hot as a .44 mag (Maybe not for every gun but should for most new pistols). I own a Ruger New Vaquero and it has held up for the past year of probably a 1000 rounds of hot .45 Colt + even more factory loads. And I have a .45 ACP cylinder that is awesome for plinking and cowboy action shooting.


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## bayhawk2

.45 Colt Rules.


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## Flyboy_451

There have been a variety of answers offered from both camps in this thread, no shortage of opinion and not really a lot of hard research or test data presented to support either side. I do not claim to be an expert in ballistics or building custom loads or even shooting for that matter. I own guns in both calibers, and load a variety of power levels in both. My .45 heavy load is a 335 grain bullet cast from wheel weights in a Veral Smith LBT mold. 23 grains of 296 drives this bullet to 1160fps, as measured by an Oehler 35P chronograph ten feet from the muzzle, from a 5 1/2" Ruger Bisley. Measure power however you would like, and that is substantial.

With regards to which is the better cartridge, I would suggest that you go read some articles written by John Linebaugh. While, John is a fan of the Taylor knockout formula and I know that there are many who disagree with this theory, he has probably done more research on heavy loads in the Colt cartridge than any other person alive. Within the following links, he discusses everything from bullet weights and pressure to "weak cases" and results from pressure testing of guns to the failure point. Read what he has to say and come to your own conclusions about the two cartridges. For me, I will take the .45 Colt in a Ruger or similar gun any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Take a look at these articles

Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend

Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - High Pressure Loads

Enjoy


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## mag

Flyboy, I'm from Missouri too, so here is your hard data.
300 gr. 44 mag. bullets and 335 gr. 45 Colt bullets have the same sectional density (.234) so should penetrate the same at the same velocity.
Typical max velocities (individual revolvers may differ slightly) for these two bullets are 1300 for the 44 and 1150 for the 45, giving the penetration edge to the 44.
The heavier 45 slug does have a little more "punch." Taylor KO for the 45 is 24.8, and 23.9 for the 44 mag., a very slight edge (< 4%).
The difference in Taylor KO between the 470 NE and the 500/465 NE (the two favorite dangerous game cartridges in Africa) is 5.4%, and they are considered dead equals on game.
I don't believe any animal on earth, including humans, could tell the difference between the two rounds if hit by them. In hard cast bullets both would penetrate completely. The wound channels would be nearly identical as well, since the faster 44 bullet would have enough more rotational velocity to equate the wounding of the larger 45 bullet.

The arguments in favor of the 44 mag. as far as trajectory are fairly weak as well. 
The 300 gr. 44 @ 1300 has a point blank range of 106 yds (+/- 2") with energy of 837 ft/lbs at that range.
The 335 gr. 45 @ 1150 has a point blank range of 96 yds. (+/- 2") with energy of 800 ft/lbs at that range.
This gives a slight edge to the 44 mag., but in the real world not 1 out of 10 pistoleros would be shooting at game at 100 yds. with any reliability, so the advantage is moot.

So we have a very slight edge for one or the other cartridge in several different categories which really don't add up to any significant difference for any significant purpose.
Choose the one that makes you happy. They're virtually the same.


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## Flyboy_451

Mag,

What art of Mo. are you from?

I was already aware of the information that you presented, but thank you for the addition to the thread. I have shot, loaded and tested a lot of loads for both the .45 and .44 for a lot of years. As a matter of fact, two of my favorite test guns are identical Ruger Blackhawks (5 1/2 stainless guns) that I use for comparative purposes. Unfortunately, the average person, myself included, does not have access to a means of measuring pressure. This is why I have referenced the articles by Linebaugh. I don't know if you have read the articles or not, but the testing that he has done in conjunction with known and respected testing labs, show that the .45 matches the performance of the .44 with less pressure, or if loaded to the same pressure levels, with much less barrel length. This, in my mind, is the advantage to the .45. The end result is pretty much the same with either cartridge, but less pressure is never a bad thing if performance is the same.

I made a post a few weeks ago detailing an informal study that I conducted comparing peoples' impression of felt recoil of two calibers loaded to equal ballistic performance (.40 S&W and .45ACP). People overwhelmingly preferred the lower pressure recoil impulse over the higher pressure, with ballistics that were identical. It made for an interesting experiment and a lively debate here on the boards. I won't get into the argument here again, but if you have not seen the thread, it can be found here http://www.handgunforum.net/general-semi-auto/27856-recoil-vs-caliber-comparison.html

If you are near the KC area, drop me a shout and lets go burn some powder! Thanks for your input.

JW


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## Gator

Verginian Dragoon 44 or 45. It's not the ammo it's the gun. think out side the NORM box. Cheaper too.


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