# Ethical behavior



## mtn.shooter (Apr 5, 2010)

Guys and gals,
I have been around here mostly reading for a long while now. I also belong to a few motorcycle forums. I came across some guy spouting some rhetoric about self defense that I called him on. I have since taken a beating for my opinion. I will C&P his statements that I called out and wanted to see what the experts opinon is. I will always admit it if I feel I am wrong and I would repsect the membership here to set me right if that is the case. Here is what was posted.

Re: Pickup driver tries to kill motorcyclist. 
I more than likely would've brandished my sidearm in that situation.

Re: Pickup driver tries to kill motorcyclist. 
So......you have never passed on a double yellow? I had a very similar situation happen to me here in Ohio, a good ole boy didnt like me passing his big jackep up 4x4 "wasnt a bad pass either". That is when I lift up my jacket and show them my holstered XD, their mood tends to change.

How would do you feel about this gun owner?


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## clockworkjon (Dec 2, 2010)

I think if you are brandishing it in order to intimidate, then you're threatening to use it offensively instead of defensively. IMO, that is highly irresponsible and I would imagine doesn't represent the majority of legal gun owners. In this specific case, the guy in the pickup has a clear advantage over the armed rider, and that only makes me think the rider is an even bigger moron. I used to belong to a few motorcycle forums, and it would be hard to find anyone more irritating than a gun-toting "squid" (aka douchebag on a bike) anonymously flexing his internet bravado. We can only hope that he will eventually remove himself from the gene pool before he can hurt anyone else.

Oh, and if this guy's motorcycle can't even blow past some guy in a pickup before he even has a chance to get angry, then his motorcycle sucks too. You can C&P me if you'd like.


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## mtn.shooter (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! That was my thoughts exactly! He was on a Concours 1400, but instead of eluding, he chose to threaten. Not to mention that in order to lift his jacket, he had to remove one hand from the controls. If it was his right hand (good odds) he was also deccelerating. Stupid stuff


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I think he's going to end up arrested sooner or later, and rightfully so.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

I concur. You cannot justify brandishing a firearm. You also cannot justify using a firearm from a moving vehicle. No court in the country is going to support anyone doing that. If you are threatened, but have an avenue of escape, you must use it, before using deadly force. I've carried off duty for 23 years and thankfully I have never had cause to use deadly force. I have been tempted on many occasions to "brandish", but as stated above, that is "offensive", not "defensive". If the rider felt threatened, he should have pulled off the road and let the threat pass. To many CCW's fall victim to the adrenaline rush of the moment. We need to use our heads, not our balls.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

hud35500 said:


> I concur. You cannot justify brandishing a firearm. You also cannot justify using a firearm from a moving vehicle. No court in the country is going to support anyone doing that. If you are threatened, but have an avenue of escape, you must use it, before using deadly force. I've carried off duty for 23 years and thankfully I have never had cause to use deadly force. I have been tempted on many occasions to "brandish", but as stated above, that is "offensive", not "defensive". If the rider felt threatened, he should have pulled off the road and let the threat pass. To many CCW's fall victim to the adrenaline rush of the moment. We need to use our heads, not our balls.


Although I agree the guy in question was out of line and using less than the best defense, I do not believe there should be a requirement to retreat in all cases.


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## clockworkjon (Dec 2, 2010)

We aren't talking about retreating down a narrow dark alley. Its a 1400cc sport touring motorcycle against a pickup truck. Forget retreating, he should just be passing the guy and getting it over with. He chose to blatantly threaten another motorist for no reason other than that he is an asshat. He's making gun owners AND motorcycle riders look bad, so I'm doubly pissed off!


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

My guess is that it never happened in the first place. Just some more Monday morning revisionist retelling of an instance where he though he should have done it later and it just turned into an awesome forum post (from his point of view anyways)

ETA: Don't argue with idiots Mtn.Shooter, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, every time.


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## ozzy (Apr 16, 2011)

mtn.shooter said:


> Guys and gals,
> I have been around here mostly reading for a long while now. I also belong to a few motorcycle forums. I came across some guy spouting some rhetoric about self defense that I called him on. I have since taken a beating for my opinion. I will C&P his statements that I called out and wanted to see what the experts opinon is. I will always admit it if I feel I am wrong and I would repsect the membership here to set me right if that is the case. Here is what was posted.
> 
> Re: Pickup driver tries to kill motorcyclist.
> ...


Take the beating and walk away from that fool. It's better to just ignore them instead of trying to correct them.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

I don't remember the exact wording of the laws here in Arizona.
But, I know that "brandishing" is a REALLY big no, NO.
I guess I should know if it is a felony or just a misdemeanor.
If you know you can never "do it", that detail can be eliminated.

I do know you have no obligation "to retreat" in Arizona as our law
extends the "castle doctrine" to any public/private areas. Although
I think if you can "retreat" you had better do exactly that.

But, you don't "just show" your gun. That is the brandishing no, no..

If there is a threat of serious body injury or death to you or yours, then
you have to decide if you want to display your weapon. And if you want 
to fire or not. That is up to you. 

And you had better be prepared to defend your decision in a court of law. :smt1099


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## jflecken (May 17, 2011)

The motorcyclist needs to be happy the truck driver did not take it as a threat to his life and run him over. There is no reason to show your weapon unless you are pulling it for self defense. Idiots like these are what gives the rest of us (ones that carry to protect self and family) a bad name.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

Castle laws are definitely different in other states. Here is CA, liberal cowards would have us sacrifice our children rather than use a firearm for defense. The average citizen here is largely ignorant and more afraid of lawmakers. In reality, the lawmakers are the true villains. The legal system is a sad joke. It's very unlikely that a gun owner would receive a fair trial here. In CA, scumbags are a protected species !


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

mtn.shooter said:


> Guys and gals,I have been around here mostly reading for a long while now. I also belong to a few motorcycle forums. I came across some guy spouting some rhetoric about self defense that I called him on. I have since taken a beating for my opinion.


People like that are the reason I no longer jump into any sort of debate topic on any forum. It's not worth the time, hassle, and stress dealing with some pot-stirring jerk that hides behind internet anonymity. The only way you "win" is not play his game and don't enter a debate with him. Just let it go. And like Zhur said, it probably never happened in the first place and the guy is dreaming about how bad-ass he could have been, so you could debating over pure fantasy; which is about as productive as debating about who would win a fight between Papa Smurf and Stuart Little.


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## clockworkjon (Dec 2, 2010)

Todd said:


> People like that are the reason I no longer jump into any sort of debate topic on any forum. It's not worth the time, hassle, and stress dealing with some pot-stirring jerk that hides behind internet anonymity. The only way you "win" is not play his game and don't enter a debate with him. Just let it go. And like Zhur said, it probably never happened in the first place and the guy is dreaming about how bad-ass he could have been, so you could debating over pure fantasy; which is about as productive as debating about who would win a fight between Papa Smurf and Stuart Little.


Stuart Little. He has agility, claws, and teeth on his side. Unless Papa Smurf could call in reinforcements, then Stuart is screwed.


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