# Would you jump in to assist a cop - use your gun if necessary?



## Glock17 (Nov 29, 2017)

Saw a video on the topic of helping a cop - though it didn't address being armed it got me to pondering. Would you as a concealed or open carrier jump in to assist a cop who was clearly in distress dealing with a perp? If you as a non-LEO end up shooting the perp or otherwise injuring them in a situation into which you inserted yourself it seems you'd be opening yourself up to a lot of legal issues and I wonder if you can assume the cop's department would have your back financially even if it's clear you may have saved the cop's life.

Thoughts, experience, knowledge of legal realities on this?


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

You need to check your state laws, there may be some laws on the books that citizens have the obligation or may be requested to assist officers in the performance of their duties.

It, for me, would have to be absolutely clear who was the LEO and who was the BG. Plain clothes officers make it more difficult, and if you shoot the wrong one, your day just got ruined too.

The department would most likely NOT have your back. You are not a duly licensed/trained officer of that department. They might take up a collection for you, but ........ You are most likely to face a civil suit by the perp or their family.

If you have self defense insurance, ask your company about it. Would you be covered in such a shooting? Would it cover any civil suits? You (may) have no legal obligation to get involved.

If you get involved and decide to only help out physically and not draw your gun, could the gun fall out of your holster and/or could the bad guy somehow get hold of your weapon?

Until such a situation arises, you won't really know how you will respond.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...r/news-story/c18fa5d7d1b2a846b7f35008846bdf77

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amend...suspect-beating-az-state-trooper-on-roadside/

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/33702378/witness-armed-person-shoots-kills-suspect-attacking-deputy


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hell ya I would


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

When I was working as a FED LEO, you were mandated to assist local Law Enforcement. You could be severely disciplined (fired) if you did not. Through that mandate Uncle Sam had to have your back. Now? Your pretty much on your own as I would be. I know I couldn't just do nothing but a lot would depend on the situation.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Hard to say. I could see myself intervening with lethal force to protect an individual unknown to me, whether a law enforcement officer or not, if in my judgement that person was unarmed and facing an immediate lethal threat from another individual. I can also envision myself not doing so.

As for opening yourself up to a lot of legal issues, I think that is a possibility, and in some jurisdictions a near certainty, anytime you would shoot anyone whether to protect yourself or someone else. If you plan on potentially using a firearm for defense, I think that has to be accepted.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

I think I would use my cane, but not my gun, unless the bg was convincingly threatening me with Grievous Bodily Harm.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

If I believe it is truly needed yes I would, would I believe that any government agency would have my back, No I know better. There are Good Sam laws that can cover you and most state laws concerning deadly force is to protect you or some around you from death or serve bodily harm.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

If it was clearly evident that a LEO was outmatched and in danger of serious harm I would do what it takes to turn the tables.

GW


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

With the officers permission or request , of course.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> With the officers permission or request , of course.


There's gonna be more times than not, that the officer won't be in a position to grant or ask for assistance.

Ya gotta make a snap decision. Whatcha gonna do? Tick tock, tick tock......................


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

While this may sound cold, you would have to ask yourself if you're willing to jeopardize your personal wealth, (home, savings, investments, etc.) to help any stranger, regardless of who they are.

Without an SD insurance policy, you could very well wind up losing a heck of a lot. Is it really worth it? To do this for someone you don't know? Or even someone you do know who is not family?

Not really a cold question but rather a stark reality question.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

BackyardCowboy said:


> You need to check your state laws, there may be some laws on the books that citizens have the obligation or may be requested to assist officers in the performance of their duties.
> 
> It, for me, would have to be absolutely clear who was the LEO and who was the BG. Plain clothes officers make it more difficult, and if you shoot the wrong one, your day just got ruined too.
> 
> ...


I can't think of any state that requires a citizen to risk his life and welfare by helping someone in danger. That would be obscene, to say the least.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I don't believe anyone would be held liable criminally for not using deadly force to protect a police officer or a stranger. As for Good Samaritan laws, many states do allow the use of deadly force by a civilian to terminate an immediate lethal threat to themselves or someone else. But as to whether a specific shooting meets the State's standards for the legitimate use of deadly force is often a matter of judgement. Whether an individual gets charged or not often comes down to the particular local prosecutor and political climate.

And although some states have laws prohibiting civil actions against shooters that have not been charged, or have been cleared of any criminal charges, many do not. In those states, even a shooter who has not been charged with a criminal complaint could still face civil actions.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> There's gonna be more times than not, that the officer won't be in a position to grant or ask for assistance.
> 
> Ya gotta make a snap decision. Whatcha gonna do? Tick tock, tick tock......................


How do you come to that percentage of "more times then not"?
I would think it would be the other way around, just sayin.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

SouthernBoy said:


> While this may sound cold, you would have to ask yourself if you're willing to jeopardize your personal wealth, (home, savings, investments, etc.) to help any stranger, regardless of who they are.
> 
> Without an SD insurance policy, you could very well wind up losing a heck of a lot. Is it really worth it? To do this for someone you don't know? Or even someone you do know who is not family?
> 
> Not really a cold question but rather a stark reality question.


Not sure how many states fall under the ' Good Samaritan Law"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If someone was "choking on a stuck piece of steak" in a restaurant ? 
I would definitely help, I really like steak.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> How do you come to that percentage of "more times then not"?
> I would think it would be the other way around, just sayin.


I was trying to make the point that if a police officer is in dire need of some kind / type / or form of assistance, he or she most likely will not be able to hold a discussion with you in regards to asking for your help outright or granting you permission to intervene.

It will be your decision and yours alone to make. You simply have to assume that it will be that way. If an officer does cry out for help, then the weight of intervention is lessened greatly. Just don't count on it.

If you do intervene, make sure that you have the ability / where-with-all to make a difference and not just complicate matters. It might sound silly, but a lot of people simply are not prepared to do so.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> I was trying to make the point that if a police officer is in dire need of some kind / type / or form of assistance, he or she most likely will not be able to hold a discussion with you in regards to asking for your help outright or granting you permission to intervene.
> 
> It will be your decision and yours alone to make. You simply have to assume that it will be that way. If an officer does cry out for help, then the weight of intervention is lessened greatly. Just don't count on it.
> 
> If you do intervene, make sure that you have the ability / where-with-all to make a difference and not just complicate matters. It might sound silly, but a lot of people simply are not prepared to do so.


I'm not referring to holding a discussion. 
It's not that that difficult to spit out the word help !
If the officer is losing control, I will announce my presence, just in case the officer is unaware that he has backup


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> I'm not referring to holding a discussion.
> It's not that that difficult to spit out the word help !
> If the officer is losing control, I will announce my presence, just in case the officer is unaware that he has backup


It is difficult if you are totally winded, fighting for your life, and so focused on what you are doing, everything else (and I do mean everything) is totally irrelevant.

If you are aware for whatever reason, that someone desperately needs help, and you truly believe it is, or will be, a life and death situation, the time for talk is over with. Nothing matters except immediate physical action.

Situations such as the one being discussed can and will vary greatly. I'm talking about a cop on the ground and someone beating the living snot out of him or her. Generally speaking, unless the fists are a flying and the cop is on the receiving end of most of them, most will not want a citizen getting involved. Too much liability of them getting injured.

It won't always be a cut & dried situation. It will be confusing and very intimidating to most.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

> I'm talking about a cop on the ground and someone beating the living snot out of him or her


I didn't read that specific scenario above .
My scenario wasn't quite a fist fight.
I was thinking the police officer had control of the situation but was weakening, like you stated , you get winded fast. Waiting for backup.
Another 200 lbs of friendly matter can sure be helpful while he can radio in his progress. And my Good Samaritan presence

I would help in both situations.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> I didn't read that specific scenario above .
> My scenario wasn't quite a fist fight.
> I was thinking the police officer had control of the situation but was weakening, like you stated , you get winded fast. Waiting for backup.
> Another 200 lbs of friendly matter can sure be helpful while he can radio in his progress. And my Good Samaritan presence
> ...


I can and do understand your point of view. As I mentioned, the situation will vary greatly. I don't carry 24/7. On trips, I always have a handgun. Just running errands around town though, I rarely carry. I don't carry on my own property.

Getting involved in some kind of a physical dispute between two or more citizens, calls for a lot more caution. Again, unless I thought a life was on the line, I'd settle for being a good witness.

I have 30+ yrs. of LE education, training, and experience to fall back on. That counts for a whole lot. Obviously, the vast majority doesn't have that to reflect back on.

If someone is of the mindset that they are concerned about the after-effect ramifications of injecting themselves into just such a situation, it would be wise to not engage. In other words, if you are on the fence, so to speak, it may be best to stay there. Civilian matters can be all over the map, when it comes to court and an outcome.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

No doubt, every situation has its own fingerprint. 

I saved a man from drowning once, I'm a terrible swimmer, but I was trained on what to expect, what to do. Most life or death situations can also have its own fingerprint. I knew ahead of time when I reached the drowning person they were gonna put a "death grip" on me, lol. You both go under, I anticipated that action. 
Like you said above, Training is important. 

I can't speak for someone else, or advise them of what's the right thing to do.
We all have our individual skill and mindset .
There's probably not a wrong or right answer here, about getting involved or not getting involved , maybe .
I've chosen not to get involved many times, some didn't include guns. 
I've walked away knowing I made the right choice. 
I've also walked away, sometimes running, and questioned my actions.
I've been a coward a few times, didn't feel well. Might happen again.
If I'm not a 100% sure of a victory, I will usually back away.
Being afraid happens. Along with being Stupid. 
Being afraid can give your life longevity,lol

We lost many drafted n volunteered soldiers on the battlefields who didn't have a choice. 
I guess , given the choice, choose wisely. 

I've carried probably 24/7 since 1981. Here in nys. 

I've pulled my gun multiple times, didn't always shoot, lol.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

> I have 30+ yrs. of LE education, training, and experience to fall back on. That counts for a whole lot. Obviously, the vast majority doesn't have that to reflect back on


I have respected your words since day one. I remember when you joined the forum. I knew your alleged experience, lol.

You past the""telling the truth test along time ago"

I don't know exactly how many Road Patrol years you have ( thinking plenty).

A career of Road patrol , I can't imagine the volume of the situations out there you were exposed to. . I completely understand.

I'll bet there are plenty of times, you may say to yourself. They wouldn't understand ( reaction to a post ) .


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> I have respected your words since day one. I remember when you joined the forum. I knew your alleged experience, lol.
> 
> You pasted the""telling the truth test along time ago"
> 
> ...


I do appreciate your kind words. When it comes to cops, many times it's a situation of they're okay, or I hate um.

From day #1 of putting on a uniform, I made every effort and attempt to treat people right and respectfully. I held on to that belief all thru my career. It served me well and I was pleased with the outcome.

I was proud of what I chose as a career. And I did my best to not make it out like it was a big deal or something. Remaining low profile about it was a good choice for me.

Looking back, I wouldn't change out a thing. I had great parents and they instilled good values in me and my two brothers.

I have some great memories, as well as plenty of bad ones. The passing of time has helped to quell some of the nagging issues that linger in regards to the bad ones. Some will go to the grave with me. They simply will not let go.

My military service was great in preparing me for my career choice. It was a natural and fluid transition. They say training makes the man. I so believe that. I was so very fortunate to have had the opportunities that I did. I never took any of it for granted.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Would I help a uniformed officer in trouble?
Absolutely!

Would I help a plainclothes or disguised officer?
Only if I absolutely knew that he/she was an officer, was on duty, and was in performance of.
.


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## CL (May 17, 2019)

I *absolutely * would help an officer if they were in distress or danger. A cops job isn't an easy one and they put their lives on the line for us every day. If I had to use my firearm then so be it!


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Timely topic this morning I loaded up my truck and trailer to go for a trail ride. While enroute I came across 2 deputies trying to capture 5 escapees, they were out numbered and the escapees were each much bigger than the deputies so I jumped into action got out caught up the 5 escapees and herded them back into their pasture showed the deputies how to mend the fence. Deputies in a rural area with no knowledge of livestock is dumb to say the least, and one was going to use a Taser on one of the cows which would have just made her mad.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I remember that getting cows off of a road and back into pasture was time consuming, but not difficult. You just have to be more patient and determined than the cows are.

Of course, it's easier just before milking time. At that time, the cows will do almost anything you ask of them, just to get themselves milked.
.


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## DSTEGJAS (Mar 17, 2011)

paratrooper said:


> Ya gotta make a snap decision. Whatcha gonna do? Tick tock, tick tock......................


In that type of situation I will not make a snap decision to use lethal force. Making a decision to end someone's life. In the situation you described everything could go wrong and you have no one there that would back you up for making that decision.

Jim


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

tony pasley said:


> Timely topic this morning I loaded up my truck and trailer to go for a trail ride. While enroute I came across 2 deputies trying to capture 5 escapees, they were out numbered and the escapees were each much bigger than the deputies so I jumped into action got out caught up the 5 escapees and herded them back into their pasture showed the deputies how to mend the fence. Deputies in a rural area with no knowledge of livestock is dumb to say the least, and one was going to use a Taser on one of the cows which would have just made her mad.


T


DSTEGJAS said:


> In that type of situation I will not make a snap decision to use lethal force. Making a decision to end someone's life. In the situation you described everything could go wrong and you have no one there that would back you up for making that decision.
> 
> Jim


That was a point that I intended to make. If you inject yourself into someone else's business, it could very well end up that way.

Just because you carry or have a CCW, doesn't always mean you are competent and are ready to risk taking the life of another.

And, if you do make that decision to inject yourself, you're not going to have the luxury to stand around and debate the pro's & con's of doing just such.

Defending your life or that of a loved one, is far different than coming to the possible rescue of a total stranger, which very well could involve more than just one offender.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I knew the dangers involved and keeping the deputies from doing something that would make things worse was the hardest part. when I got done I had 2 missed calls from the Sherriff department requesting help getting cattle off the road. I am on their special assistance list


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