# New First handgun



## jk1017

Im looking to purchase my first handgun, mainly for home defense and to keep in my truck. I plan on carrying but I have not gotten my carry permit yet. Ive narrowed my search down to 9mm and compact. I do not want a full-size or sub compact yet I plan on buying more guns down the road so i want my first one to be one that does it all. Ive narrowed it down to the glock 19, sw mp9c, or the ruger sr9c. Ive done a lot of research and everywhere i look it says glock and im leaning towards glock just because they are easy to use and I like the size of the glock 19 its not to small and not to big. Ive shot a glock 26 and a glock 17 and the grip angle and ergonomics really did not bother me. Ive also seen a lot about the sd9ve. Price isn't really a factor but i do not want to spend more than $700 right now but i want to get something that will last and is easy to use.


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## CW

Have you had the chance to Czech out CZ PCR, or 75 Compact, or if a rail is needed, a CZ P01?

You have a nice list, I just don't want you to miss these often overlooked gems.


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## pblanc

I can't stand the so-called ergonomics of Glocks, but if they do not bother you the Glock 19 is the safe bet.


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## Darkstar888

I hate to be that guy that suggests a totally different gun but here goes. Check out the Walther P99c. Right around $500 with a lifetime warranty. It's a DA/SA striker fired gun with a decocker. Truly excellent trigger. Extremely accurate. As reliable as any Glock but sexier IMHO and world class ergonomics. Very versatile like Glock as well. Comes with two ten round mags, one with pinky rest, and one flat base. You can also use full size 15rd mags from the P99 with a grip adaptor giving you greater capacity when not concealed and a full length grip. And down the line if you ever get a full size P99 or PPQ M1 it will accept the mags from either of them. I really can't say enough good things about it. Oh and James Bond used the full sized version in a bunch of the Pierce Brosnan films. Here's mine 









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## pblanc

Oh yeah, if we are allowed to think outside of the list there are a number of pistols I would recommend before the four listed by the OP.

The Walther P99 is one. Some others are the SIG P320c, the HK VP9, and the Steyr M-A1 and probably the Beretta PX4 Storm compact.


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## Steve M1911A1

Bear in mind that shooting a pistol is not easy to learn, nor is it easy to do well.
The best thing that a new shooter can do is to make the learning process easy on himself/herself.

Compact handguns are more difficult to shoot effectively and well than are full-size pistols.
Therefore, it may not be such a good idea, to start out with a compact gun.

Equally, lightweight polymer handguns are also more difficult to shoot well.
Heavier, all-metal pistols absorb recoil in their mass, and are much easier to learn to shoot.

You may find it hard to believe, but it's not all that difficult to carry and conceal a full-size, full-weight handgun.
If you want to end up carrying a concealed weapon, you have a lot to learn first, and a lightweight, compact pistol is not a good learning tool.


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## jk1017

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Bear in mind that shooting a pistol is not easy to learn, nor is it easy to do well.
> The best thing that a new shooter can do is to make the learning process easy on himself/herself.
> 
> Compact handguns are more difficult to shoot effectively and well than are full-size pistols.
> Therefore, it may not be such a good idea, to start out with a compact gun.
> 
> Equally, lightweight polymer handguns are also more difficult to shoot well.
> Heavier, all-metal pistols absorb recoil in their mass, and are much easier to learn to shoot.
> 
> You may find it hard to believe, but it's not all that difficult to carry and conceal a full-size, full-weight handgun.
> If you want to end up carrying a concealed weapon, you have a lot to learn first, and a lightweight, compact pistol is not a good learning tool.


That is a good point. I have looked at full size handguns too maybe a glock 17 or mp9. I'm open to all suggestion not just what I listed above. Thank you

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## Cait43




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## wirenut

here is mine, XD MOD-2


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## BZimm

I recently brought home a Glock 23, Gen 4. I have a Lone Wolf barrel and three Magpul magazines that let me set it up for 9mm practice. I like shooting both 40 cal. and 9mm with it and it is a comfortable gun for me. It is the first modern handgun that I own, and it is my first semi-auto. I have run 550 rounds through it (combined), and I like the way it feels. Saturday I expect to run some more 40 and 9mm rounds at a wooded property that I have. The purpose of my trip is to sight-in a couple rifles for whitetail season. What a great morning it'll be.....:smt023


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## AZdave

This poll is just like the US presidential election.


I don't see anything I can vote for. :smt1099


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## Blackhawkman

Glock 19 would be the safe choice for a "First" handgun purchase. The DA trigger pulls of Sig, Walther, Beretta et al would be one concern.


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## Craigh

CW said:


> Have you had the chance to Czech out CZ PCR, or 75 Compact, or if a rail is needed, a CZ P01?
> 
> You have a nice list, I just don't want you to miss these often overlooked gems.


Plus 1 for the CZ line of top tier handguns. For a medium size, I'd be looking at the PCR model with the decocking lever. For full size, it would be the CZ 75 BD, also with the decocker. Sometimes CZ gets overlooked I think because the Czech Republic was under Soviet domination for so many years. Czechoslovakia was formed after WW1 and became one of the worlds leading supplier of military arms such that it was one of the first countries overrun by Nazi Germany in WWII so Hitler would have the additional factories and know how to make arms from pistols to tanks. I remember one of the very finest bolt action rifles I ever owned was based on the Czech small ring Mauser action in 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. It was smooth as silk and a real nail driver. That Czech action was always in demand as a base for building wonderful sporters.

Rent and shoot a Cz 75 (or variant) and I think you'll see why many consider it so comfortable and their first choice. Worldwide, I believe they are carried by more military and police departments than any other sidearm. Several companies import CZ 75 clones from Italy, Turkey and who knows where else. The Italian Tanfoglio line as well as the Turkish Canik or Tristar are all clones. They are probably just fine, but I'd get the real thing from CZ.

Take care,

Craig


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## boatdoc173

I would rent the ones you like several times and compare which ones work best for you. I prefer a CZ if I want a hammered gun and a walther(pps or ppq), HK VP9 or SA XD mod 2 If I want a striker fired gun

Buy what you feel best shooting and practice a lot with it


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## speed_kills

I have a G19 and M&P9c among several others. 

For your criteria, the G19 is for sure my recommendation even if it might seem like the boring choice.


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## SamBond

The G19 would be a good choice if it fits your hand.
I never picked up (or shot) a Glock that felt good in hand but they seem to work for many people, just not me.

Ruger has very good CS and they'll take care of you if there is EVER any problems with one of their guns. No time limit!
Only thing about the SR9c, too many reports of FTF with them.
I personally know of three that had to go back to Ruger because of light strikes. So there is that.

I have no experience with the S&W MP9c so I got nothing on it......

Good luck with your search. 



Sam


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## Tangof

The CZ line is more pricey, and worth it. The 75b if you like a larger pistol, or the P-01 as a more compact model. Either one will suit your needs. I have used both to qualify on the Law Enforcement Standards Board shoot. Both guns are superbly accurate at 25 yards.


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## Swampguy

One more vote for the CZ. I have a CZ P-01 with the decocker (CZ-USA CZ P-01 - CZ-USA) . I did not find it hard to shoot reasonably accurately. When I took my concealed carry shooting test, I qualified with a score of 249 out of 250. Personally, I like the idea of a safety. Obviously, not using it is an option.


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## yellowtr

I chose the SW22 Victory for my first pistol. I decided late in life to get a pistol after watching guy after guy have a ball at the range shooting all kinds of pistols 
I wanted to start with a target pistol. Also easy to field strip. 
So far I have put about 200 rounds of all kinds of ammo and it is a nice semi-auto.
I now have all winter to decide on a 9mm target. Right now I am leaning to the S&W M&P Pro 5". 
The only problem I see here is keeping enough ammo to feed my pistol and my long guns. 
Hope there are some good sales during the winter.


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## pic

Are you familiar with the different gun actions available ? How new are you to firearms ? 
People will argue the point , but some gun actions, revolver, striker fired, DA/SA. Etc are safer then others.

ask the question , why do some guns have decockers?


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## s.morgan

For the list of firearms he listed I recommend the Ruger SR9 only because he is new to carrying a gun an this gun has a red flag that pops up when it has a bullet in the chamber .
A Walther p99c was mentioned a very nice conceal carry gun I carry its twin the Smith an Wesson Sw990L
I love the gun very compact handles recoil well . My daughter carries the Smith SD9ve this gun shoots well an easy to modify the trigger pull weight on reducing it drastically . the Smith an Wesson MP9c is a very nice gun . The Smith an Wesson M&P9 with the ported barrel is a nice choice I have the Smith an Wesson M&P 40 with the ported barrel an the gun handles real nice .the two guns I would have trouble choosing between if I was updating mine would be the Beretta Px4 Storm or the Walther p99c these two guns are well built have options to make fit your hand better by changing butt plates an handle recoil well both are easy to maintain. Glocks I never liked them never have never will so I kind of ignore they exist .


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## s.morgan

Not sure why Guns have decockers . but Every gun I know that has a decocker is a double action semi automatic like the Beretta 92/96 . With the double action you can hit the decocker releasing the hammer while a bullet is still chambered to fire pull the trigger an the gun cycles as normal.The bullet fires an the hammer is set to strike again with the slightest trigger pull . decocking at this point again leaves the bullet chambered but requires a full length trigger pull to fire and recycle the weapon .
Without a decocker as soon as the bullet is chamber the gun is ready to fire . With most guns you don't have a safety. pulling on the trigger from a little pressure to some pressure will surely fire the round an unless you plan on firing it would be dangerous to leave a gun with one in the chamber with no decocker or safety so most gun manufactures designed their triggers to require along hard pulls to prevent accidental firing . Some manufactures add a trigger lock in a trigger to assure its a finger pulling on the trigger an not a piece of clothing . when you add option to a handgun you add dollars so the cheaper the gun the less safety features . double action or single action that's preference more than anything the more you learn about guns an use guns I think the more you lean toward double actions .


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## pic

s.morgan said:


> Not sure why Guns have decockers . but Every gun I know that has a decocker is a double action semi automatic like the Beretta 92/96 . With the double action you can hit the decocker releasing the hammer while a bullet is still chambered to fire pull the trigger an the gun cycles as normal.The bullet fires an the hammer is set to strike again with the slightest trigger pull . decocking at this point again leaves the bullet chambered but requires a full length trigger pull to fire and recycle the weapon .
> Without a decocker as soon as the bullet is chamber the gun is ready to fire . With most guns you don't have a safety. pulling on the trigger from a little pressure to some pressure will surely fire the round an unless you plan on firing it would be dangerous to leave a gun with one in the chamber with no decocker or safety so most gun manufactures designed their triggers to require along hard pulls to prevent accidental firing . Some manufactures add a trigger lock in a trigger to assure its a finger pulling on the trigger an not a piece of clothing . when you add option to a handgun you add dollars so the cheaper the gun the less safety features . double action or single action that's preference more than anything the more you learn about guns an use guns I think the more you lean toward double actions .


.
ithink an object can disengage the trigger thingy and fire the gun, why wouldn't it. A pencil,etc, there have been such incidents


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## Kennydale

My first Handgun was the Ruger SR40C. Carried it for 2 1/2 years (Had it for 3 1/2years). Switched to Glock 9mm about 2 years ago. My Ruger (Also have the LCP and LCR) sits in safe in case 9mm becomes scarce again. I hold both brands in very high regard !


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## Steve M1911A1

s.morgan said:


> ...the more you learn about guns an use guns I think the more you lean toward double actions .


There are two different kinds of "double-actions":
• There's one in which the trigger action is exactly the same for every shot, called _double-action only_ (DAO).
• There's another in which the trigger changes from a long, hard first-shot pull to a short, lighter single-action pull for all the rest. It's called _traditional double-action_ (TDA).

Because beginners will have quite enough trouble mastering even a trigger action which always remains the same, I suggest that a new shooter would best be served by either a single-action (SA) trigger or a double-action only (DAO) trigger.
The second-shot transition between trigger actions required by TDA triggers just makes the job harder, and, I believe, is unsuited to a beginner.

Having been trained on SA pistols (M1911A1), and having used them extensively in competition, I was led to believe that the SA trigger was the proper one for beginners. In terms of competition shooting and of target shooting, I still think that way.
But after many years of concealed carry, using both SA and DAO guns, I have come to the conclusion that a beginner who wishes to learn self-defense shooting will best be served by being trained from the very beginning to use a pistol with a DAO trigger mechanism.

After a lot of experience has been gained, the shooter becomes capable of making a well-reasoned choice, and may wish to switch to a different system.
I, for instance, went in quite the other direction from my own recommendation: I changed from a DAO pistol to a SA one, for carry in my "senior years."


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## s.morgan

I agree with you . The reason I prefer a double action like the Beretta 96a1 0ver a SA like the Smith Wesson SD9v . Once a round is chamber the Beretta being decocked requires a full length trigger pull but is still ready to fire also the decocker acts as a safety when engaged an the gun can not be fired although a round is chambered . With the SD9V an many of other guns on the market that are SA hammerless once a round is chambered the gun is ready to fire most dont have safety's of any kind an the only way to make the gun safe is to pull the magazine an empty the chamber . The safest way to carry this type gun is not to chamber a round until your ready to shoot . Which in a life or death situation takes valuable time . The scary part is everyone is buying guns an getting license to carry . Most big retail gun dealers are only interested in selling a gun an most people don't realize they have a choice . So we have thousands of amateurs carrying in most cases the cheapest gun the store has an when you go cheap you give up options ,reliability on jamming issues an safety features .I have several handguns I carry for self defense I prefer the Beretta 96a1 . My wife an adult children all carry . Most carry a double action of some kind but one daughter prefers the Smith N Wesson Sd9VE she has been involved with guns all her life an is very familiar with all her options but she prefers this gun .. So in the end it will always come down to what a person prefers .


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## pic

How many lb pull is the trigger on an M&P, or a vp9 ,glock,ppq approximately ? 

Could we be justified in saying the poundage is about the same with a cocked hammer revolver, ruger ,smith,etc 

Would a cocked revolver be within a few lbs of all the guns listed above?

I might have to google this one.


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## Steve M1911A1

Assuming some sort of tune-up, I would expect the SA trigger weight of a good-quality revolver to be under five pounds, and preferably it should be a very crisp and clean three.
Assuming that same tune-up, the DA weight might be between 12 and 13 pounds.

My understanding is that a Glock presents the shooter with a long-pull, DAO trigger action of about five pounds (unless you work for NYPD). However, I've never owned a Glock, so I could be wrong, and I know nothing about the VP9 or the M&P.
My previous EDC, an AMT Backup .45, came with a long 13-pound DAO pull, which I was able to bring down to below 12 pounds.
Jean's Kel-Tec P-3AT has an eight-pound DAO trigger action, approximately.

All of my SA semi-autos have trigger actions which weigh-in at 3.5 pounds or less, except the Colt's Pocket Hammerless which is now my EDC. It's trigger action breaks at about five pounds.


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## pic

I guess I'm sorta beating the bush here , I own a glock which has a very short single action feeling break n bang. There is an internal movement that is unnoticeable.
The hk vp 9 and walther ppq are in a single action feel, squeeze the trigger bang. M&P same set up 3.5 lb-6 lb trigger break.

A fully cocked revolver has about a 3.5-6 lb pull. It's not much of a pull , as like the others

Im Trying to illustrate or make a point here that why don't people carry their revolvers already fully cocked?
Why shouldn't the justifiable excuse be, you can carry a cocked revolver, as long as you keep your finger off the trigger.
And use the proper holster ?
WE don't carry revolvers cocked, but we carry guns with hidden or unseen firing pins that are in the same ready to fire mode as a cocked revolver.
:watching:


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## Steve M1911A1

pic said:


> ...WE don't carry revolvers cocked, but we carry guns with hidden or unseen firing pins that are in the same ready to fire mode as a cocked revolver.
> :watching:


That's not exactly true.

Take, for instance, the Glock. It's trigger action is _staged_ by the slide's movement in recoil, but the pistol won't fire until quite a long press on its trigger moves some parts around on its inside and pushes its striker all the way rearward.
I believe that there is also a safety block which keeps the gun's striker from hitting a primer, unless its trigger is pressed all the way back.

Now, take, for instance, any modern S&W revolver. While its SA-trigger arrangement does require a completed trigger press to permit it to set off a primer, its trigger motion is very much shorter than the Glock's, and therefore the primer explosion is much easier to achieve. Further, if the S&W revolver has been "tuned," its trigger requires a much lighter press to set it off, than does the Glock's.

Looking at the possibility that some external object might interfere with the trigger and fire the gun, it is pretty obvious that the short-movement, lightweight press that will fire a cocked SA or DA revolver will be easier to achieve than will the very long, "medium-weight" press required by the Glock.


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## pic

I would own all of these guns,

The walther ppq


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## pic

The hk vp9


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## pic

Steve, I know you're still sleeping being three hours away, plus the pillow is very comforting,,lol.

Check out a few very short vids of trigger sets or actions that I'm not explaining very well.


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## pic

Steve M1911A1 said:


> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Take, for instance, the Glock. It's trigger action is _staged_ by the slide's movement in recoil, but the pistol won't fire until quite a long press on its trigger moves some parts around on its inside and pushes its striker all the way rearward.
> I believe that there is also a safety block which keeps the gun's striker from hitting a primer, unless its trigger is pressed all the way back.
> 
> Now, take, for instance, any modern S&W revolver. While its SA-trigger arrangement does require a completed trigger press to permit it to set off a primer, its trigger motion is very much shorter than the Glock's, and therefore the primer explosion is much easier to achieve. Further, if the S&W revolver has been "tuned," its trigger requires a much lighter press to set it off, than does the Glock's.
> 
> Looking at the possibility that some external object might interfere with the trigger and fire the gun, it is pretty obvious that the short-movement, lightweight press that will fire a cocked SA or DA revolver will be easier to achieve than will the very long, "medium-weight" press required by the Glock.


j

this vid is a little longer I apologize this shows a glock trigger action and reset . I love my glock


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## Craigh

pic said:


> I would own all of these guns,
> 
> The walther ppq


I own this model and can tell you, after breaking it in, has a somewhat light trigger pull and extremely crisp. Some might consider it too light and too crisp to be a safe carry pistol. I know because I've shot it quite a bit. I just put another 150 rounds through it over the weekend, a mixed batch of FMJ and JHP 124 grain +P mostly. It worked flawlessly, but is now around a 4 lb or under pull according to my older analog gauge. Even at around 300 rounds, it still had a tad of creep and grit. Not much, but a little. Now when at the wall, it breaks like the stem of a wine glass.

The range officer is a friend of mine and shot a couple of magazines to see what he thought. He's been a total Glock fanboi and glocktard for a long time. I say that jokingly, but he truly is. After shooting my Walther PPQ, he said he absolutely would not carry it and would be a little concerned even having in his nightstand at night where he might be startled awake. On the other hand, he felt, as a range gun, he'd never felt as sweet of a trigger on any striker fired and many hammer fired handguns in his life. But even as a range gun, he'd have some reservations advising it for a beginner.

I think for a striker fired handgun, this is about as close as you can get to a revolver being shot single action, and it's still very different. It's not at all like carrying a revolver cocked on your side. I just now sat on the edge of my bed with my old trigger gauge and a number of unloaded handguns, one or two of each type:

Striker Fired:

S&W M&P 9mm Shield with gunsmith installed Apex system - very short pre-travel to the wall, then very little creep with no grit and avg 5 lb. pull. Still not as crisp as I'd like, but very nice.
Walther PPQ broken in with some hand polishing using Flitz. - a modicum of pre-travel with slight but noticeable tension, then at the wall, very crisp

DA Revolver using SA

S&W Model 65 custom PPC gun by the Gunnery in Minneapolis - no pre-travel to speak of with very light 3 lbs and like glass. The trigger was more customized for DA competition. The very wide, smooth S&W trigger make the pull seem even lighter like 2 lbs. This is from the mid-1970's.
S&W Model 15 out of the box - no pre-travel and the pull ranged all over the place from just over 3 lbs to just under 4 lbs. This is a fairly new gun.

SA Revolver

Ruger Bicentenial Super Blackhawk from 1976 - almost imperceptible creep and crisp break at around 4 lbs. That's heavy, but it's a hunter, so I'm ok with it. 

SA 1911 Semi-Auto

Remington R1 enhanced with light polishing using Flitz and red rouge - No perceptible pre-travel with a very short and slightly gritty creep. A crisp break at 4 1/2 lbs avg. No over-travel. I don't find it bad and it's very controllable, but I may send it to Bill Wilson for a trigger job this Spring if I'm alive and well. 
Colt Gold Cub Series 70 highly modified as a Bullseye pistol by The Gunnery in Minneapolis. Trigger tuned by Bob Chow in SF while I was there for a meeting, but no rib. Tuned again by Henry Borgheresi (RIP 2013), Greenville, SC in the mid 1980's. - Very clean, like breaking glass with a 2 lb trigger pull. 

The point isn't to say so much about some of my collection. Who cares, but I love to yap. The point was these were within easy reach and I could try them out to compare striker fired, including the PPQ against carrying a cocked revolver on your side. I'm here to say, it's a whole lot different. DA revolvers, SA revolvers and SA Autos all have little to no pre-travel and little to no creep. They break with various weights, but all light compared to Striker fired or SA/DA automatics, by and large. Even the PPQ which is considered one of the lightest has more over-travel and it's under tension than any of these others and by a good margin. I really was curious myself and is my motivation.

Just my little informal test sitting on my bed this morning. Your mileage may vary. Take care, my friend.


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## pic

Thank you, appreciate all the info. Well written.

When you talk about pre travel, I'm assuming this pre travel is just the movement or play in the trigger before it actually becomes involved with any other movement of the trigger assembly or mechanism that touches anything really important ?

Be my guest to rewrite whatever I just wrote, lol. I speak a few languages and sometimes talk like YODA on Star Wars,,lol.






I'm not a mind reader, lol. Just had the photo in my files.....That's YODA. Are you familiar with the character ? He came out in 1976,77 roughly.

:smt1099


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## pblanc

People use terms differently. I would use the term "take up" rather than pre-travel, and I would define it as that portion of trigger travel where there is little or no resistance on the trigger.


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## Craigh

Pretty much what pblanc said, but I'd call it the travel of the trigger from stationary to the wall. There may or may not be much spring tension during this take up. I mention it because, with spring tension, you know you're pulling or pressing the trigger, unlike the creep which can occur after the wall and before the break. That take up is obvious and you aren't expecting the gun to discharge. At the wall, if there's creep, it can discharge at any point and varies from gun to gun. A single action revolver, DA/SA used SA or an SA Auto generally has no take up or pre-travel. You're at the wall. When you press the trigger, you might or might not get a little creep then bang. My best National Match type 1911's have no creep. They just go bang and with not much effort. That Model 65 PPC gun has pretty much zero creep and just goes bang in SA mode. I'd be very uncomfortable with it on my hip and hammer back as I would with the 1911's cocked and NOT locked. 

I'm completely comfortable with the PPQ on my hip and ready to go except in that holster with the little lever to get the gun out. That holster just feels unsafe to me, especially when re-holstering, but that's a whole different story. I'm totally comfortable with my M&P 9mm Shield thumb safety NOT engaged on my hip in a holster or in my pocket in a pocket holster. Same with my LCP II or my Sigs. That LCP II is Single Action hammer fired with no safety and the hammer is cocked with no decocking ability other than shooting it.


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## Argon18smith

I am envious of everyone on this forum. You have so many choices. Being from Canada we are only allowed 10 shot mags and a lot of fireams are not even allowed into Canada if they are capable of holding large capacity mags. I have to make due with what is allowed. There are still a lot of great firearms to be had. I chose the CZ Shadow2 because no-one else I know has one. I know a lot of guys that would like one but they have "too" many guns already. I am just starting out with high power handguns and I only have 2. I am a long way away from "too" many. I love hearing about everyone's choices and their reasons why. Thank you for your input.


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## desertman

pic said:


> I guess I'm sorta beating the bush here , I own a glock which has a very short single action feeling break n bang. There is an internal movement that is unnoticeable.
> The hk vp 9 and walther ppq are in a single action feel, squeeze the trigger bang. M&P same set up 3.5 lb-6 lb trigger break.
> 
> A fully cocked revolver has about a 3.5-6 lb pull. It's not much of a pull , as like the others
> 
> *Im Trying to illustrate or make a point here that why don't people carry their revolvers already fully cocked?*
> Why shouldn't the justifiable excuse be, you can carry a cocked revolver, as long as you keep your finger off the trigger.
> And use the proper holster ?
> WE don't carry revolvers cocked, but we carry guns with hidden or unseen firing pins that are in the same ready to fire mode as a cocked revolver.
> :watching:


Because striker fired guns all have firing pin blocks which prevent the gun from going off unless the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. Some also have a pivoting trigger safety which prevents the trigger from being pulled until your trigger finger is placed on it which disengages it. A "cocked" revolver only has the sear engagement ledge to prevent the hammer from falling. If a "cocked" revolver is accidentally dropped or receives a sudden jolt there is a strong likelihood that you will have an accidental discharge. Carrying a "cocked" revolver is an accident waiting to happen and is a good way to get yourself or someone else killed or seriously injured.


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## pblanc

I'm certainly not advocating carrying a double action revolver with the hammer cocked, but many revolvers have a safety mechanism that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. Rugers for example, have a transfer bar. Pulling the trigger all the way moves the transfer bar up and interposes it between the hammer and the firing pin. Unless the transfer bar is there, dropping the hammer as a result of sear bounce will not result in striking the firing pin. Smith and Wessons use a hammer block that sits between the face of the hammer and the frame. Pulling the trigger pulls the hammer block down out of the way and allows the hammer to strike the firing pin.


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## pic

pblanc said:


> I'm certainly not advocating carrying a double action revolver with the hammer cocked, but many revolvers have a safety mechanism that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. Rugers for example, have a transfer bar. Pulling the trigger all the way moves the transfer bar up and interposes it between the hammer and the firing pin. Unless the transfer bar is there, dropping the hammer as a result of sear bounce will not result in striking the firing pin. Smith and Wessons use a hammer block that sits between the face of the hammer and the frame. Pulling the trigger pulls the hammer block down out of the way and allows the hammer to strike the firing pin.


d

my revolvers also have the safety mechanisms where the trigger needs to be pressed. Good catch. Just keep your finger off the trigger:smt033

:watching:


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## desertman

pblanc said:


> *I'm certainly not advocating carrying a double action revolver with the hammer cocked*, but many revolvers have a safety mechanism that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. Rugers for example, have a transfer bar. Pulling the trigger all the way moves the transfer bar up and interposes it between the hammer and the firing pin. Unless the transfer bar is there, dropping the hammer as a result of sear bounce will not result in striking the firing pin. Smith and Wessons use a hammer block that sits between the face of the hammer and the frame. Pulling the trigger pulls the hammer block down out of the way and allows the hammer to strike the firing pin.


Indeed you are correct and no, I don't think you're going to find too many people advocating the carrying of a "cocked" revolver. Transfer bar or no transfer bar. Certainly not the manufacturer. They're not designed to be safely carried that way. Period. Just the thought of it gives me the creeps.

While I am familiar with and own late model Smith's and Ruger's both single and double action. I do not know if their earlier models incorporate transfer bars or not? Early Colt single action revolvers and some of their clones do not, neither do those NAA mini revolvers. There are God only knows how many makes and models of revolvers out there that have been manufactured over the last century. Many that are still in working order. Whether they all have transfer bars or not is anyone's guess?

So it's fair to make a blanket statement that *no revolver should ever be carried "cocked"*. Especially on a handgun forum where many people who aren't at all familiar with guns let alone the different makes, models and mechanics of how they operate, seek out information. We have no idea of who reads any of this, their mental capacity, or their mechanical aptitude. So to play it safe a general rule must apply.


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## pic

desertman said:


> Indeed you are correct and no, I don't think you're going to find too many people advocating the carrying of a "cocked" revolver. Transfer bar or no transfer bar. Certainly not the manufacturer. They're not designed to be safely carried that way. Period. Just the thought of it gives me the creeps.
> 
> While I am familiar with and own late model Smith's and Ruger's both single and double action. I do not know if their earlier models incorporate transfer bars or not? Early Colt single action revolvers and some of their clones do not, neither do those NAA mini revolvers. There are God only knows how many makes and models of revolvers out there that have been manufactured over the last century. Many that are still in working order. Whether they all have transfer bars or not is anyone's guess?
> 
> So it's fair to make a blanket statement that *no revolver should ever be carried "cocked"*. Especially on a handgun forum where many people who aren't at all familiar with guns let alone the different makes, models and mechanics of how they operate, seek out information. We have no idea of who reads any of this, their mental capacity, or their mechanical aptitude. So to play it safe a general rule must apply.


j

yes thank you

I believe the trigger poundage is very equal, they all , or most have an amount of trigger play or take up.

Some have had their striker fireds at 3 pound breaks if they start customizing, same with any new model double action revolver cocked,,,, it could be lightened up to 3 lbs.

*I think we have a visual issue going on here*.

Basically a striker has everything hidden and unexposed.

Cocking a revolver you can plainly see the need or the closeness of an unnecessary discharge.
Imo , I believe people should know how close they are to putting a bullet in their leg, lol.

I'm reflecting here about an experience I had at a gun store.

The salesman was recommending a striker fired to my wife who knows nothing about guns except that they are loud and could kill.
My wife asked me about the gun, which I would have no problem with. I asked to see a revolver, I cocked the revolver and handed it to my wife and asked her if she would carry that revolver cocked in a holster all day.

i said they were about equal, except one you can see the hammer,,the other you can't.

Ive taken this point as far as I can, and I realize there's different opinions, I respect the different views 100%

:smt1099


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## Craigh

pic said:


> i said they were about equal, except one you can see the hammer,,the other you can't.
> 
> :smt1099


The problem, my friend, is that this just is not true, except in trigger pull at the break when you compare a highly tuned striker fired weapon with a revolver. I tested it myself in this very thread. A cocked revolver and a striker fired weapon are in no way similar. They just are not. Cock you double action revolver and dry fire it. Then, dry fire any of your striker fired weapons and it's pretty easy to tell. With the revolver cocked, that's it. Pull the trigger and bang. With the striker fired weapon, there is always quite a good bit of pre-travel or whatever you wish to call it. It's generally under tension. You have to pull through that, then usually pull through some creep to get to the wall. Only at the wall, is it now similar to a cocked revolver and that's a long way to go. Now, add this all to the fact that most striker fired weapons have NOT been tuned down to a 3 lb trigger. Most are quite a bit more than this, so we have take up (pre-travel), creep, then a heavier trigger pull on the vast percentage of striker fired handguns. Pick up a couple and try it out. It's night and day.

Pic, my friend, I respect and like you a lot, but in this case, I just have a hard time believing you actually own or have extensively used a striker fired handgun to in any way compare the trigger to a cocked revolver. A striker fired pull is much more like a very smooth double action revolver, if any comparison can be made, but not cocked SA.

Now, don't get me wrong. I also respect those who might be adverse to carrying a striker fired weapon without a safety. I understand. I also understand some folks being uncomfortable with a cocked and locked 1911a. When my hammer fired Sig P220 first came out and I bought it back in the mid-1970s, people at my home range denigrated it for not having manual safety. One guy wanted it banned from the range as unsafe. People come up with all kinds of reasons and strange comparisons, but it all boils down to simple common sense gun safety. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you mean it to be there.

While you're at it, there are other guns which might dismay some other folks. How about the new Ruger LCP II? It is a single action hammer fired handgun with no safety. It's always cocked and UNlocked. I have one and know it's as safe as houses if normal safety is followed, but just from the design, should scare the heck out of you.  How about the new Walther Creed. They call it a pre-tensioned hammer fired handgun. Dig in and you'll find this means single action hammer fired. Pre-tensioned just means the hammer is back and ready to go like a lot of striker fired weapons. Some are calling it a pre-cocked double action trigger system, but I'm not sure that's not just double speak for single action just because they place a little more tension on the take-up. It's still cocked and UNlocked any way you look at it. What makes these two guns safe is that tensioned take-up, just like a striker fired weapon or a double action revolver.


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## Steve M1911A1

Craigh said:


> ...With the striker fired weapon, there is always quite a good bit of pre-travel...You have to pull through that, then usually pull through some creep...A striker fired pull is much more like a very smooth double action revolver...


Um, Craig, you're writing about a modern, "double-action-style" pistol-trigger action.
But there are older, striker-fired pistol designs which have trigger actions very like those of the M1911 and single-action revolvers.
One easy example? The Luger.

...And, by the way, who is that creep we have to pull through?
And what do we have to pull him through?
Most of the creeps I've met were too big to pull through anything.


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## Craigh

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Um, Craig, you're writing about a modern, "double-action-style" pistol-trigger action.
> But there are older, striker-fired pistol designs which have trigger actions very like those of the M1911 and single-action revolvers.
> One easy example? The Luger.


Come on Steve. The idea you can suggest a few collectible striker fired weapons which indeed may act similar to a 1911 Single Action doesn't invalidate my point, if that was your intention. Yes, of course I'm talking about the modern striker fired handguns being made these days and being considered for carry by so many people. But, you knew that as did everyone else.

As I'm sure you know and as an aside, John Browning's original few submissions to the US military had no thumb safety at all. It was added to the spec by, I believe, the US Army. I'm not sure he felt there was a need.



Steve M1911A1 said:


> _...And, by the way, who is that creep we have to pull through?
> And what do we have to pull him through?
> Most of the creeps I've met were too big to pull through anything._


It's that spongy, gritty little *creep* who hangs around sometimes. Get you a nice Hi-Point 9mm and you'll get creeped out or would that be crept out?


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## Indigowolf

I don't own a full sized 9, 40, or 45. Also it is unlikely that I am ever going to. There are several mid/compact handguns I would consider though. I currently have no reason to get one.


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## Steve M1911A1

Craigh said:


> ...[Your comment] doesn't invalidate my point, if that was your intention...


Invalidating your point wasn't my intention at all.
I just don't like generalized, sweeping, all-inclusive statements without modifiers, because they frequently end up as untruths.

The statement you made, which seemed to me to be much too all-inclusive, and therefore wrong, was: "...I just have a hard time believing you actually own or have extensively used a striker fired handgun to in any way compare the trigger to a cocked revolver. A striker fired pull is much more like a very smooth double action revolver..."

It is entirely possible that *pic* owns a Luger, a Glisenti, a Lahti, or even a Nambu. (And there are smaller, SA-like, striker-fired pistols, too.)
Further, you were giving information that could well be misconstrued (or misunderstood) by a beginner, and then repeated by him or her as if it were truth. So it needed a qualifier or modifier.

Just pedantic old me, that's all.


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## Craigh

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Just pedantic old me, that's all.


LOL well, that certainly was pedantic.


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## desertman

Craigh said:


> Come on Steve. The idea you can suggest a few collectible striker fired weapons which indeed may act similar to a 1911 Single Action doesn't invalidate my point, if that was your intention. Yes, of course *I'm talking about the modern striker fired handguns being made these days* and being considered for carry by so many people. But, you knew that as did everyone else.
> 
> As I'm sure you know and as an aside, John Browning's original few submissions to the US military had no thumb safety at all. It was added to the spec by, I believe, the US Army. I'm not sure he felt there was a need.
> 
> It's that spongy, gritty little *creep* who hangs around sometimes. Get you a nice Hi-Point 9mm and you'll get creeped out or would that be crept out?


That's the way I interpreted your comments. Which by the way was an excellent description of the action on striker fired weapons that are in common use today. Comparing a double action revolver to a striker fired weapon is like comparing a car to a truck. Both will get you to the same place. However a car doesn't handle like a truck and a truck doesn't handle like a car.

Now about those "creeps". Maybe that's the reason why some people carry guns in the first place.


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## Izzard

I hope you enjoy your first handgun


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## JoeH

I'm afraid I can be of no help to you since my main criteria is #1 Accurate on bulls eye targets at 25 yds (I shoot at my gun club twice a week for reasons other than "make noise"). #2. I have to love the looks of the gun. Neither of these criteria are good in the "best carry" dept. If I wanted a carry gun, the Kimber Micro 9 would win for "looks".


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## BigHead

I took a WAG, and picked the S&W SD9VE. Why would I do that? It is the cheapest one of the lot, and it is still a pretty good gun, even if it is over-looked by most people. Gun Auction had a starting bid of $330 dollars for the one in the pic, and S&W lists them at an MSRP of $390. That sounds like a good deal.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/sw-sd9-ve-std-capacity


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## Danoobie

AZdave said:


> This poll is just like the US presidential election.
> 
> I don't see anything I can vote for. :smt1099


I feel like the question is loaded. Like somebody saying to you in court-"So, did 
you rob the bank BEFORE or AFTER you axe-murdered the Nun?"


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