# scoop on Beretta & 9mm vs. 40 S&W



## wpshooter (Sep 22, 2008)

I was just talking to a retired undercover detective of a large US city police force and I was telling him that I was planning on purchasing a new Beretta 92FS500 (9mm) and he said that his advices would be to go with some brand other than the Beretta 92 (for instance, Springfield Armory, Sig Sauer, or Glock). 

He said that he did not think that the Beretta had the durability that some of the other above mentioned brands have, i.e. that some of the guns parts tended to not have as long a life as some other brands.

He also said that I should strongly consider going with the 40 S&W caliber instead of the 9mm. He said that the 40 S&W had about the same knock down power at 100 (I think he said feet) that the 9mm had at the muzzle. And that even with this knock down power advantage, that the 40 S&W had little or no more recoil than the 9mm.

Would you agree or disagree with either his advice of purchasing some brand other than the Beretta and purchasing the 40 S&W instead of the 9mm ?

Thanks.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

The only thing bad I've ever heard about Beretta's was when they first started using suppressors because of the open top slide of the 92f. That was because it was a tilting barrel and it did not have enough support to put a heavy suppressor on the end of the barrel. That was fixed and is no longer an issue. I don't see any issues with the Beretta's, especially if you are not planning on painting your face, and putting a suppressor on it. hehe

As to the 9mm vs. .40 aspect. Please remove the words "Knockdown power" from your firearms vocabulary, as this is a farce. It is a marketing/mall ninja term. There are simply too many variables to concern yourself with "knockdown power". Learn to shoot your pistol well, under duress, and put more rounds on target. This is what would put a bad guy out of a fight, not how big your barrel is. This is the case 9 times out of 10 especially because people often times believe the hype and buy a bigger gun than they are capable of shooting well. If you can't shoot a .40 or .45 with their heavier recoil, it doesn't matter that it's bigger, because you will miss. That is why, often times, 9mm is recommended time and time again to newer shooters (assuming you are new to shooting)

Buy a caliber that you can shoot very well, and put rounds on target as quickly as possible while still maintaining accuracy. Once a shooter becomes more proficient** then upgrade to a larger caliber if it is deemed necessary. It's more important to put rounds on target than it is to have a "4" in the title, at least in my opinion.


Zhur


**Proficient - This does not mean that you can pull the trigger really fast and burn thru 4 magazines that hit the side of a hill. Proficiency with a firearm comes from years, yes YEARS of shooting with repeatable results. Results that fit a high degree of accuracy, safety and speed.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

This is easy - I disagree on both counts.

As for the durability of the Beretta 92 design, it is more than plenty durable. I doubt many people will shoot one enough in 2 lifetimes to wear it out. And to suggest to someone it is not durable enough to consider buying one is simply ignorant.

U.S. military test results of the M9:

http://www.berettausa.com/media/download.cfm?d_id=116

As for 9mm versus the .40 there is absolutely a difference in recoil.

Once again, Beretta makes a great pistol along with numerous other manufacturers. It comes down to preferences, fit, and feel.


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## wpshooter (Sep 22, 2008)

Wyatt said:


> This is easy - I disagree on both counts.
> 
> As for the durability of the Beretta 92 design, it is more than plenty durable. I doubt many people will shoot one enough in 2 lifetimes to wear it out. And to suggest to someone it is not durable enough to consider buying one is simply ignorant.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your replies.

You say that the person I was talking to about this subject answer may have been ignorant, but he was telling me that he was an undercover agent for about 15 years and also that he was some type of certified/master with a handgun. He also claimed that he holds some type of national or world record in 1,000 yard rifle competition. You would think that if any of what he claimed is true then you might think he would know where of he is taking about !!!

Thanks.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

double post oooops


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

wpshooter said:


> he was telling me that he was an undercover agent for about 15 years and also that he was some type of certified/master with a handgun. He also claimed that he holds some type of national or world record in 1,000 yard rifle competition.


Do you personally know this fellow? If not, I'd suggest you ask him if he prefers the rough side in or out on his two toed ninja shoes.:smt171:numbchuck:

:mrgreen:

If you like the feel of a Beretta, and you can get some trigger time with it to see if it feels good when shooting, buy it, practice with it a lot, and be happy that you've purchased a quality handgun. Now, as to where you are going to conceal that huge monster.....

Zhur


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

wpshooter said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> You would think that if any of what he claimed is true then you might think he would know where of he is taking about !!!
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, you would think. :mrgreen: Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but after a while you hear so many people slam any make that is not one of their own faves without any real documentation to back it up, that it gets a little irritating. And that is what that comment sounded like to me.

I know there have been some changes in the materials used on some parts of the new 92's that is different from the older, all metal models. Even so, while I've heard people prefer other makes to Beretta for various reasons (fit, size, weight, trigger action, slide safety, etc) I've not yet heard anyone complain that they are not a very durable handgun. My own personal experience is that I've got well north of 8K rounds through my 92FS and have yet to have a malfunction (reliability) of any kind, much less have a part fail (durability).

Let me put it this way: If you like the feel of the 92 and shoot it well I highly doubt you will be unhappy with your choice.

If you still wish to do more research after surfing the Beretta forum here, go to http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/ and you will find a lot of useful info there as well.

BTW, if that first link to the Beretta tests doesn't work, here's another: http://www.beretta.com/index.aspx?m=74&idc=2&ids=27


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## Scratchshooter40 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Beretta durability and performance*

I don't know about your source on the large metro PD, but as a Reserve Deputy and former narcotics investigator, I carry a Beretta 96 CCW now and carried a 9mm Hi-Power 30 years ago with Silvertip ammo, it works. The major differences in the 9mm and the .40 S&W are ballistic performance and perceived recoil. I don't have any issue with the .40 recoil in my 96 and shoot a 92 because I can bulk buy 9x19mm at far less than I can buy .40 S&W. I am fortunate that the S.O. requires us to qualify with the carry ammo quarterly and provides the ammo. I shoot the 9x19 mm as it is the same weapon as the 96 FS down to the Hogue panel grips I added. +P Speer 9mm ammo rocks and is a very adequate defense round as is CorBon. Get what fits you ergonomically and you will shoot a lot so that you are proficient. Look into schools like Front Sight and Gun Sight for training and additional information. My 96 now has around 10,250 rounds through it and has not lost any accuracy and never had any type malfunction. That's a pretty hefty investment in ammo between myself and the S.O. If you're gonna carry it know how to use it in all conditions. Be safe and qualify your sources for advice. I agree with Wyatt on the previous comment. Gun Sight's motto: Any gun will do if you will do.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

The Beretta 92 is a perfectly durable and reliable pistol. It doesn't offer the best ergonomics of any pistol going, being large with a big grip, a backwards safety, and a grungy trigger. But the gun _works_.

9mm works fine for defense with good modern JHPs. Anyone who tells you 9mm and .40 kick the same in equivalent pistols is either (a) high, (b) inexperienced with pistols, or (c) deluded into thinking that _any_ pistol is actually good at stopping fights.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Mike Barham said:


> (c) deluded into thinking that _any_ pistol is actually good at stopping fights.


Mike, are you calling me deluded? :mrgreen:

If indeed you are, I'll explain, if not, then it's just some more advice for the OP. I'd rather someone shoot a gun that they can hit with, rather than shoot the biggest baddest gun on the market that they can't hit the side of a barn with. A lot of times, people get caught up in the hype of "knockdown power" or "stopping power", so they buy a .45 whizbang, with extended magazine, extended slide release, extended mag well, extended safety, extended penis enhancer. The problem with that is that they may not have the fundamentals of shooting down to be able to control that nice whizbang. That usually leads them to the "this gun sucks" syndrome. They've simply got to learn the fundamentals of shooting, and it is decidedly harder to do with a larger caliber without professional, hands on instruction. Reading about that instruction can help, but it's easier to learn with either a .22 or a 9mm to start with.

I personally can shoot the pee outta pretty much any caliber, so I carry either a 357 Sig or a .45, but that's only after years of shooting and proficiency with those firearms. Newer shooters sometimes have the tendancy to want to shoot "cool" before they shoot "good". So, that's why I say it doesn't really matter if your gun starts with a 4 or not, it's far more important to hit the target than it is to fire a bigger gun real fast and hit nothing but air.

Zhur


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Great advise given already. I would agree any of the Beretta's if they suit your purpose, you can shoot them well and they fit your hand would be durable. Are there more durable options out there? Maybe. However, for low $500's on a brand new 92 FS with an impressive track record I'd be comfortable.

Regarding caliber this is a subject long debated but the consensus seems to be that no handgun caliber can be truely considered powerful so pick the biggest you can shoot the best. For me that is 45 in 1911's and 9mm in all other semi's with the Beretta PX Storm in 40 S&W being the one exception. Yes 9mm is a little weaker than 40. But I can put all 15 rounds out of my G19 9mm precisely were I want them with very little effort which translates to improved odds for me under duress. If the bad guy still wants some after 15 tightly grouped shots to the head and chest then I'm in big trouble and need a rifle or shotty.

Tuefelhunden


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Wyatt said:


> This is easy - I disagree on both counts.
> 
> As for the durability of the Beretta 92 design, it is more than plenty durable. I doubt many people will shoot one enough in 2 lifetimes to wear it out. And to suggest to someone it is not durable enough to consider buying one is simply ignorant.
> 
> ...


What's this???!?!? You mean if I have a beretta 92/96, I can only expect a mere meager *35,000-75,000 rounds *through it before the slide/frame is shot? Why that's preposterous! Whata hunk a junk! (sarcasm) :anim_lol:

Ok, I might have to go ask my friend if he still wants to unload his old 92 Inox I was considering last year just for giggles. One bad mag and I'm thinking the gun was a problem.. phoooey! Just pick up some oem magazines, and be happy. That gun was every bit if not more tight than my big-dollar Sig CPO that I love to death now.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

babs said:


> That gun was every bit if not more tight than my big-dollar Sig CPO that I love to death now.


That same Sig CPO that you keep considering selling? :smt033:numbchuck:

-Jeff-


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

touche' :mrgreen:

Well yeah the original idea was another one just like it.. only beeeeeeeeeeeger! in a .45 acp.. And a friend of a friend wanted it so I figured what the heck.. but can't bring myself to do it. I think in reality, it's a keeper.. I just saw a couple 220 carry guns which started making me think bad thoughts. 

The rub on the top rear grip below the hammer is buggin' me though.. been googling cerakote a bit lately. hehe Eh.. It's a worker, not a prom-queen. :smt033 I definitely have to do some hogues though.. Those plastic stocks ain't cuttin' it for me any more.


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