# Which pistol is found more in the hands of Law Enforcement & the Military



## Guest

*LE and the military means domestic and international LE and military services. This is NOT about which is better, or which YOU like better. Use your research skills if you don't know....the answers are readily available from the web.*


----------



## Revolver

Military is obviously the Beretta. Locally(and elsewhere), the Beretta is pretty frequent with most police departments too. So if I had to count US Armed Forces AND LE Beretta would have to win, _obviously_. The inclusion of military makes Beretta the winner. H&K has a pretty strong precense among SOCOM(Mk23 ring a bell?).


----------



## Mike Barham

Not sure you need a poll for this, as you said. It's not opinion, it's empirical fact. Glock has something like 70% of the US LE market, last I saw. I know that all the orders Galco gets from UK cops are also for Glocks. Galco sells more Glock holsters than anything. In fact, if you left off 1911s and J-frame Smiths, I think we'd literally sell more Glock holsters than all other guns combined.

Military contracts are more political - witness the current US service pistol. I don't think SOCOM has more than a few Mk. 23s in inventory, by the way, and every single high-speed guy I've ever talked to (including SF, USMC Force Recon, Pathfinder, Ranger) has preferred the 1911 or the M9 - if he gave a crap about pistols at all. The market for the Mk. 23 is so tiny Galco doesn't even bother to make holsters for it.

I'm not sure either group can be classified generally as "pros" (except that some of them carry guns in the course of getting paid). Most cops I see at the range are pretty average shooters, though their gunhandling is usually safer than Joe Sixpack's. Most soldiers are abysmal shots, and the Big Army is more afraid of its own weapons than the enemy, anyway. Marines are generally better rifle shots, but pistol training is sparse and pretty lousy in the military.

*Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!*


----------



## SigZagger

I believe that is correct, Glock has 60-70% of the LE market. Locally, the large city PD is carrying S&W in both 9mm and 45. The new recruits are coming out onto the streets with the M&P40. The suburban departments I see vary from Glock, Beretta, Sig and Smith.


----------



## Baldy

World wide. Glock I would say hands down.


----------



## gene

Can not reply I am not working for a police dept.


----------



## js

I have 2 LEO friends that are carrying a Glock and a Beretta 96D. Not sure about anywhere else, but in my area it's Glock and Beretta.


----------



## john doe.

When I see police in various cities I always look to see what they are carrying. I seem to see Glock the most. Certainly not a scientific study on my part but just an observation.


----------



## Mdnitedrftr

Id also have to agree with Glock being the most widely used.


And I dunno about anyone else, but Ive noticed alot of officers carrying Sigs aswell, more specifically P229's.


----------



## jem375

worldwide, probably the CZ models, used a lot in Europe, much more than Glocks......


----------



## 2400

Up here almost all the SO uses 1911's.


----------



## Charlie

Down here most city PD carry Glocks. Texas DPS carries Sigs. Deputies and Constables carry mostly 1911s. Like the others, just an observation. 
I'm just auditing this course, so if I flunk this test, it don't matter.
:goofy: :smt102 :watching:​


----------



## Mr. P

Glock is GOD! *I could be wrong.*

I know of two counties in the Atlanta area that carry glock. I don't know about the rest. I stay away from there as much as possible. Ga. DNR and GBI do too as far as I know.


----------



## Benzbuilder

Here in Tuscaloosa, AL, the city issues Sig 220 or 229.:smt067 :smt068 :smt071


----------



## Mr. P

Benzbuilder said:


> Here in Tuscaloosa, AL, the city issues Sig 220 or 229.:smt067 :smt068 :smt071


Tuscaloosa!!! You Dreamland BBQ rib eater!!!!!!!!


----------



## GeorgiaGlocker

Around here it is Glocks used by more LE departments.


----------



## Mdnitedrftr

I was looking through one of my gun mags and came upon a CZ ad that claimed that their guns were the most widely used by police/military/security worldwide...


----------



## jimg11

*Which pistol is found in the Hands of L E and Military*

For Law Enforcement which out numbers the Military I believe that it is the Glock. My department issues the Sig Pro 2340 DAO in 357 Sig. The Sig 226 In 9mm +P+ is issued by an adjoining town while the bigger town north of us issues 40 S&W Glocks. The State Police issue 4506 Smith & Wessons in .45 acp. Several posters Mentioned PROs but I do not feel that most Police officers considers themselves Gun Professionals unless they are on SWAT or SERT Teams or Attached to the Firearms Training function. For the Line Officer the Firearm is just a thing he carries just in case. I have told by officers that a good pen is more important to them than their duty weapon.
The Glock has a big following as it is easy to carry and simple to use and reliable even following missuse. Many of the Gun Pros do us the 1911 Colt design.


----------



## reconNinja

Here in Northern Florida they use Glocks. I think .40's, but they are big on their Glocks. LE further west in Florida seem to use Berettas, from all the fucking cops that pulled me over that way. In the tiny town in Wisconsin I used to live in, they carried Smith .40 automatics. Can't remember what model, 4506 or something like that. They were fullsize, not compacts.


----------



## john doe.

reconNinja said:


> ... from all the fucking cops that pulled me over that way.


Is this something that happens often? That middle or left pedal is for slowing down.:mrgreen: My sister drives a Posche in Florida. She's almost lost her liscence who knows how many times.


----------



## KingAirDriver

All of the LEOs around Kansas and Kansas City, MO that I've seen have Glocks. Whenever we fly into little po-dunk towns, LEOs often stop by the plane to chat and every one has had a Glock. Even the ambulance drivers/security guards at the local hospital in Wichita have Glocks, although one older guy has a larger revolver.


----------



## JeffWard

Orlando PD Glock
Orange Cty Sher. Glock
Seminole Cty Sher. Glock

The US Military Beretta

It would be interesting to know what the actul number of Berettas in service is, vs the number of Glocks.

I'm guessing there are more cops than foot soldiers with a US flag on their shoulder. And with 70+% of departments issuing Glocks... it would be a pretty tight race.

Internationally???? who knows.

Jeff


----------



## Mike Barham

JeffWard said:


> I'm guessing there are more cops than foot soldiers with a US flag on their shoulder. And with 70+% of departments issuing Glocks... it would be a pretty tight race.


The initial M9 contract called for, I believe, 320,000 pistols for all services. There have been some follow-on purchases of at least 10,000 each. Of course, a lot of these guns are held in the big TRADOC posts where the Army supposedly conducts pistol "training," and aren't issued to any particular warfighter.

I see lots of M9s here, but mainly they are secondary weapons. However, all MP and most SECFOR units issue all their soldiers pistols, invariably the M9.

The M9 works fine, being robust and reliable, but it certainly wasn't designed by a shooter. But the military has a history of buying guns not completely suitable to its actual needs. Look at the M16A2.


----------



## Jaketips42

Sigs here mostly


----------



## hideit

austria (GLOCK)sold 288,132 pistols in 2005
that is more than S&W and Ruger pistols COMBINED
data from "shooting industry"

S&W 158,601
ruger 125,057

also Glock has a marketing program for LE - after 3 years turn it in for $300and get a new Glock for the difference


----------



## glennc

Sig got a new Homeland Security contract for 65,000 guns...
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_SIG,,00.html


----------



## hucklebery

Well, glock gives a significant discount to military and LE. So I would assume that Glock is pretty happy with their sales to both. I would have to vote Glock.


----------



## Old Dominion

Where I live I see alot of old S&W semi-autos. VA. state police Use SIGs. with the 357sig round.


----------



## zx12guy

Virginia State Police - Sig 229
Hanover County- Sig 220
Henrico County- Glock 23


----------



## TOF

I have always been quite content when LEO's refrained from making me aware of the brand and caliber Pistol/Revolver they were carrying. I will therefor not respond with an inteligent answer to this question. I am merely auditing the course.
:watching: :watching:

When do we get to see the certified answer to this question?

:smt1099


----------



## BrokenArrow

Glock is Borg; resistance is futile. 

Glock claims about 65% of the US LE market. Don't know if that means by officer or agency. IIRC, there are about 750,000 cops in the USA. City, county, and state here issue Glocks in 9/40/357. State is switching to S&W M&P357, and city is thinking about switching to M&P9.

About 85,000 armed US federal agents. Largest fed contract was the DHS contract in 2004. Up to 65,000 pistols over 5 yrs w SIG and HK getting options. So far ICE and USCG have bought new SIGs, CBP has bought new HKs. FBI/DEA/USMS issue Glocks. USSS/FAM/FPS/BATF issue SIGs. 

Surveys of holster makers show Glock and SIG in the lead for holster sales to US LE. Beretta 92/96 fading fast, M&P moving up fast. Ammo company surveys show sales ranks as follows: 40S&W, 9x19, 45ACP, 357SIG, 38 Special. The 357 Mag and 10mm are barely blips on the screen and fading, the 45 GAP moving up.

Total Berettas bought to date w original and follow on M9 contracts is over 500,000. Last contract was in 2005 for up to 70,000 more over 5 yrs (2005 - 2010). There is other stuff in use. Army's AWG bought Glock 19s, SFOD-D bought Glock 22s, USN SEALS bought SIGs, SOCOM bought HKs, USMC some new 1911s, but even more new M9A1s (M9 w frame rail for light)... We have also bought pistols for our allies in the war on terror. So far about 5,000 Rugers, 5,000 sig pros, 72,000 Sigmas, and 120,000 Glocks.

Internationally Glock does very well, but there have been some big contracts that got away from them. French Gendarmerie bought over 200,000 sig pros, Poland about 100,000 Walther P99s, the German army and several federal police agencies have bought more HKs and SIGs than Glocks. OTOH, some Swiss cops are issued Glocks...


----------



## the drifter

The Mississippi DWFP switched recently from Glock .45 to .40's. Not sure why the change in caliber.


----------



## submoa

With the exception of special forces units, Military pistols are backup weapons. The primary infantry weapon is a rifle. After passing a requirements list, military pistol contracts are awarded on the basis of price and politics (ie. who's district the factory is in).

The average cop on the street will draw his pistol in anger only a handful of times in his career. He'll qualify and handle his pistol safer than a civilian, but I wouldn't say he's a pro. Price and politics determines which gun he uses. Glock is the most aggressive marketer in the LE arena. They have generous trade in allowances that have reduced purchase price dramatically for many departments.

I would consider pistol 'pros' shooters able to select their weapons based on needs rather than mass government contract: special forces and SWAT units. But their numbers are small and if you are lucky (and they are doing their job), you will rarely see them.

Much is made of HK Mk 23 and P226 as a special forces pistols. But in real life, pistol selection is mission specific. If you are incountry under non-official cover, you'll more than likely use indigenous weapons. Similarly if you are an undercover cop, the last thing you want to handle is local LE std.issue.

The guys I know in SWAT units pretty much stick to 1911s.

LAPD SWAT and Special Investigation Section uses Kimber 1911s
FBI SWAT uses Springfield 1911 (serial #s starting with FBI)


----------



## Mike Barham

BrokenArrow said:


> Surveys of holster makers show Glock and SIG in the lead for holster sales to US LE. Beretta 92/96 fading fast, M&P moving up fast.


Yeah, I think that's a pretty good general assessment (I work for a holster company back in the real world).



> Total Berettas bought to date w original and follow on M9 contracts is over 500,000. Last contract was in 2005 for up to 70,000 more over 5 yrs (2005 - 2010).


I'd love to know where all those M9s are hiding. We don't have enough for all our guys here. I am sure the Stateside TRADOC posts all have plenty. 

Not disputing the numbers, though.


----------



## jmg

Hello from Portugal.
Here the LE agencies are switching from walther PP 7,65 and walther p 38to glock 19 with a total number of 50.000 handguns.
The portuguese army still stands with the old walther P 38.


----------



## babs

I've read more than one gun review recently that said the same thing about the nice situation pistol consumers are in because the military hinted at opening the door for a new model.. SOCOM trials or something like that, that I won't claim to know really anything about.. But just the hinting of new trials for the industry has apparently caused a big surge in all these new high-quality offerings.. Several Kimbers, the FNP-45 comes to mind, a Sig I saw somewhere... Might have been the P220 Combat (nice!).. etc etc

So I guess regardless the direction a buyer takes, the current situation allows a LOT of quality choices.

Ok.. googled that Sig.. Here's a lengthy vid, but explains the SOCOM program that didn't happen and what happened for consumers as result... Eh, thought I'd try to contribute since I'm no real glock fan.:smt033

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=662859821&channel=429149807


----------



## BarbedWireSmile

Glock. Love it or hate it, Glock dominates the US LE market. Since there are several times as many LE users in the US than military users, Glock beats our Beretta. 

Int'l I'm not sure. Though as I travel abroad I sure see a lot of Glocks. Heavy, if not exclusive, use in the UK. Not sure about Canada, perhaps someone could chime in. I assume Germans use the HK since they use MP-5's as their issue SMG for LE, airport, border, etc.

There is a reason why Glock has dominant market share, but that's another thread.......

Despite being a 1911 guy myself, in terms of LE/military market share, it's not even close.


----------



## Fredericianer

The police here in Denmark have recently upgraded from their old 7.65mm Walther PP's to the H&K P8.

The armed forces are still using the SIG P-210, though I've heard rumours that they may be replaced.


----------



## WWhunter

I've seen a couple of references to the use of the HK pistol being used by SOCOM. I'm ex-military but still have several friends in SF and the SOC comunity. This pistol is big, bulky and seldom used except for specific missions. Most guys would rather carry an MP5 or another SMG instead of it. It is true though that they would like to go back to the .45. The only members that don't have an opinion are the ones that aren't really "gun" guys....medic, eod, com guys. Even though trained to be able to take anothers job...the gun guys know each other and we stayed current in the use of what is available.
WW


----------



## florida1098

Being a retired LEO in NYC and now a LEO in Florida my personal observation has been 99% Glocks. When we (NYC) first switched to semi's in the 80's we had a choice of Glock, Smith, or Sig. Most found the Smith's too heavy, many chose the Sig because it was more expensive, but free to us, and finally the rest Glock.
The original Sig's rusted so badly at first that they were removed from service and returned. Our only choice was Glock or Smith. I never remember anyone I knew carrying a Smith except an oldtime Sgt, who like me, was use to carrying a S&W model 10.
Here in Fl, I worked with more than a few Dept's and have never seen anything other than a Glock service weapon.


----------



## spidey2091

Granted this does not speak for all LE because I have not witnessed it firsthand, but the guys that guard our vault at work carry G21's, and both of them are retired SC state troopers. They both agree that the majority of SC law enforcement all carry Glock.


----------



## Dredd

Glock the most, Some departments use Sig like the Michigan State Police, ohio state Highway Patrol, texas Rangers, some homeland security personnel, coast guard, SEALs. Beretta is standard issue to the Army and USMC as far as I understand. 

Some agencies in the US like the Atlanta PD is switching from Glock to S&W's M&P line, some agencies offer HK USP as an option or as standard issue. 

I know that the BSO (Broward Sheriff's office) here in FL uses Glock, but they allow people to use Sig if they are grandfathered in. What does that mean? I really don't have a clue lol, but that's what I was told when I was looking at Sigs in the shop.

You know what though? It doesn't even matter to me. I mean, if everyone in the country was issued a Springfield XD I would not buy one based on that. I bought what I have because of comfort, quality, reliability reports, and personal taste. Obviously it has to shoot good too.


----------



## Willieno59

Up here, RCMP use Smiths, OPP use Sig 229, most citys use Glocks


----------



## Anarius

The police around here are a mixed lot. The state (Michigan) issues sig226 9mm, the locals get .45acp glocks, and the county issues a mix of .40 glocks and bererta 92s...I believe they are switching from the beretta to the glock, but this is just from chatting with the officers. The county next door is getting M&Ps but I don't know if they are getting 9mm or .45

I'm with Mike...where the heck are all the M9s?! On my deployment we were only issued with about 60 for a battery of 210 soldiers...they went the Officers, NCOs, and the soldiers whose primary job involved driving. While Mike and others have correctly pointed out, the soldiers weapon is the rifle and the pistol is just a back up, I'd like a backup and I'd like it to work. As I've posted previously the M9 I was issued with was completely un-serviceable and I could not get parts from any Military source. When we qualified prior to that weapons issue we all had to share 3 M9s.

500,000+? That blows my socks off.


----------



## babs

Having gotten a little range time with my new (to me) P226 9mm today, I can see the attraction to that particular style of action and frame. Simple decocked non-manual safety firing-pin block safety setup. Just point and shoot DA 1st round without worry fumbling with a safety. Though I'm sure in the heat of it and proficiency with your weapon, I'm sure a competent shooter would be able to go off safety quick enough with the 92/m9. 

The Sig da/sa strikes me as possibly easier to train maybe... Load, chamber, decock and holster and it's in carry-mode. In split-second SHTF situation, it's just present, aim, fire (I'm sure there's a more established procedure but something like that) without worry about a safety.. Almost like an old school revolver, except the rounds after round 1 are sweet single action pulls.

I'm almost already thinking about my next 220 or Sig 1911. Got Sig-itis bad now.


----------



## glennc

babs said:


> Having gotten a little range time with my new (to me) P226 9mm today, I can see the attraction to that particular style of action and frame. Simple decocked non-manual safety firing-pin block safety setup. Just point and shoot DA 1st round without worry fumbling with a safety. Though I'm sure in the heat of it and proficiency with your weapon, I'm sure a competent shooter would be able to go off safety quick enough with the 92/m9.
> 
> The Sig da/sa strikes me as possibly easier to train maybe... Load, chamber, decock and holster and it's in carry-mode. In split-second SHTF situation, it's just present, aim, fire (I'm sure there's a more established procedure but something like that) without worry about a safety.. Almost like an old school revolver, except the rounds after round 1 are sweet single action pulls.
> 
> I'm almost already thinking about my next 220 or Sig 1911. Got Sig-itis bad
> now.


I know the Sig-its...I'm very interested in their new P250.
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/Sh...s.aspx?categoryid=54&productid=183&play=close


----------



## babs

So I was in the shop the other day and here comes a local PD officer for their Monday evening informal competition shooting. I ask him about svc weapons.. Naturally, you guessed it, not only was he a Glock .40 fan, but very very adamant about it. Definitely his weapon of choice for duty carry.

Reason have gave me... Bang every time, period.

Although I chimed in that I was waiting to talk to the smith about the new Sig 226 getting sights, he perked up.. "oooh nice". I agreed naturally. :mrgreen:

But from the conversation, I got the impression for duty carry, it's all about just a few things... Weight, size, dependability and decent short-distance accuracy and no fumbling safety to mess with.. point and click.

Given the typical cop shootout vids I've seen, their SHTF situations are quick-draw close-range where a perp stopped on the side of the road or on the streets makes that last bad mistake and the lead starts slinging.. 

Their weapons have to be right there, quick to aim, quick to cycle and jam-free, but not weigh a ton for the 99.99999% of the time when they're just carried.


----------



## TcRoc

Alot of Law enforcement struck a deal with the Glock 45 gap.
Why? Not because the agencies felt that was the best but because Glock gave them a deal they couldn't turn down,,the GAP was getting no where, So selling them to law for a can't turn down price was better than sitting on them .
The GAP round is more than likely the worst selling out there.

The GAP was a good idea but flopped

Also Military signed another deal for x amount of M9's not long ago,,the article was posted on Beretta forum


----------



## James NM

I vote CZ 75 B.

From the CZ website: http://www.cz-usa.com/products_handguns.php


> The CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world. The CZ 75 is quite possibly the perfect pistol.


----------



## badger54

I voted glock.
I think the majority of Armed Police officers in the UK carry glocks but I've only seen armed police officers two times in the ten years I have lived in the UK. Two police forces over here that don't use glocks are Surrey(Smith and Wesson) and the ministry of defence police(browning). The UK military uses the browning pistol even though I believe its only issued to officers, MPs, drivers etc..., special forces (SAS, SBS) use Sig Sauers. And all but one(WSP) of the LEO agency's in Western Washington that I've applied to have glocks as standard issue.


----------



## babs

I wonder how the Sig's (world-wide) fair in the LE / Military quantities or % usage.. Seems all these CPO Sigs (like my new-to-me p226) are typically LE turn-in's. I imagine a LOT in Germany and the region. I know the US military uses them in some amounts... I think the coast guard maybe and the SEAL teams to some extent.


----------



## Mike Barham

The Army also issues the SIG P228/M11 to CID agents and some pilots. I saw quite a few while I was in Afghanistan.


----------



## rasgun

Secret Service issues a Sig 226 in .357 sig


----------



## dadof3

We are issued Sig P229R (rail) now,just got mine about 2 months ago.We 
were using the P229 (non rail).


----------



## skyfire

from what i've seen, police: glock, military: beretta, special forces: sig


----------



## KCabbage

Every police officer I see has a Glock


----------



## RevDerb

*Most Used Handguns by LE & M*

I hope that no one makes a purchasing decision based on what local, state or national governments purchase. I spent 32 years as a sales rep for various companies and, generally, contracts with government agencies were let to the lowest bidder, not the best performing or highest quality products. The best weapon for me is the one that fits my hand, budget and (eventually) belt. I am enamored by most of them and will undoubtedly add several to keep my SS P-6 company in the months & years to come.:smt1099


----------



## BrokenArrow

RevDerb said:


> I hope that no one makes a purchasing decision based on what local, state or national governments purchase. I spent 32 years as a sales rep for various companies and, generally, contracts with government agencies were let to the lowest bidder, not the best performing or highest quality products.


Not as true anymore. Many contracts are decided by best value for the money, not low bidder, now.

For example, the DOJ and DHS gun and ammo contracts did not go the the lowest bidder, they went to the guns and ammo that scored the highest in evaluations and had an "aceeptable" bid.

If it was all low bid, everybody would be shooting Rugers w Wolf ammo.


----------



## Deltaboy1984

City PD Glocks County Sheriff Dept are Sigs


----------



## RevDerb

RevDerb said:


> I hope that no one makes a purchasing decision based on what local, state or national governments purchase. I spent 32 years as a sales rep for various companies and, generally, contracts with government agencies were let to the lowest bidder, not the best performing or highest quality products. The best weapon for me is the one that fits my hand, budget and (eventually) belt. I am enamored by most of them and will undoubtedly add several to keep my SS P-6 company in the months & years to come.:smt1099


Since my original post, I've added a Glock 26 and a SIG Mosquito (standard) to the gun box. I am having *ALMOST* as much fun shopping for them and comparing +'s and -'s as I am shooting them. I have also moved my residence from metro Detroit to northern Michigan.

Am pleased to know that value and performance are now (supposedly) considered for govt purchases rather than just lowest bid.
\"doggy:


----------



## Ptarmigan

rasgun said:


> Secret Service issues a Sig 226 in .357 sig


I believe this is incorrect. The Secret Service uses the Sig Sauer P229 chambered in .357SIG. At least that is the case for their Special Agents last I knew.

Among the federal agencies, Glock, Sig Sauer, and Heckler und Koch seem to be the most common sidearms. Among state and local departments, Glock seems to be the most used sidearm. When I was a firearms instructor at a state academy, I saw approximately 65-75% Glocks used by the basic students. For smaller departments and individual officers buying their own duty weapons, it is hard to beat $400 or less for a brand new Glock. None of the other companies offer that type of discount to law enforcement as far as I know.

The most popular sidearm I saw was the Glock model 22. The Sig Sauer P229 in .40S&W was also widely used. All the H&K USPs I ever saw used by law enforcement officers all had some minor problem. Several of them would not lock the slide back on an empty magazine, others had problems with jamming when they became dirty. I am sure they are nice weapons, but I saw too many problems with them to completely trust them. Same with the Sig Sauers. Most ran great but several had problems when they were shot a lot without getting cleaned.

My partner that I attended FI school with shot a Sig P229 in .40 and I shot a Glock 22 as did most of the students. My partner had so many problems with his Sig (having to run to the back of the line to clean it all the time) that he ordered a Glock 22 the day we got home.

I am not bashing H&K or Sigs, but I have seen so many 1000s of rounds shot by so many different people with many different guns and Glock is the only brand that I never saw a problem with. O.K. I saw one guy rip the front sight off (standard plastic sight) during a tactical reload.

I don't recall everf seeing any problems with the Beretta 92FS either. I would have been very comfortable using one as a duty weapon.

I would carry H&K, Sig, Beretta, and some Smith & Wessons if I had to, but as long as I have a choice, I would always choose a Glock when picking a semi-auto duty weapon.

Anyway, sorry this got a little longwinded.


----------



## submoa

Most numbers made for military & police. Browning HP (aka P35). Over 70 years of continuous worldwide service.


----------



## oak1971

Sig 220's around these parts for police.


----------



## knoxrocks222

here in memphis its sig and glock


----------



## DevilsJohnson

babs said:


> I'm almost already thinking about my next 220 or Sig 1911. Got Sig-itis bad now.


Heh..that's a pretty good problem to have..there's a lot to like about em:smt023


----------



## hideit

homeland security here also use Sig .357


----------



## knoxrocks222

glock here


----------



## Americanmadexb

Berreta for military.. its not the best gun that they are after... its the lowest bidder!!


----------



## FallGuy

The biggest Police Dept on NC has 1,627 sworn officers and they carry Smith & Wesson M&P fullsize.


----------



## banjar

Greene County NC standard issue is Glock 9mm but most csrry their own .40's. When it time to buy new guns they will be taking sealed bids and lowest bidder wins.


----------



## BT2Flip

Mr. P said:


> Tuscaloosa!!! You Dreamland BBQ rib eater!!!!!!!!


MMMMMmmmmmmm...BBQ RIBS MMMMMmmmmmmmm :anim_lol:

here in Salem NH the locals HAVE NO CHOICE...the town makes them carry Glocks... but 99.7% like XD s better:smt023


----------



## HDRDR

Glocks for the LEO'S where I work 40 S&W


----------



## OFFICER45

reconNinja said:


> Here in Northern Florida they use Glocks. I think .40's, but they are big on their Glocks. LE further west in Florida seem to use Berettas, from all the fucking cops that pulled me over that way. In the tiny town in Wisconsin I used to live in, they carried Smith .40 automatics. Can't remember what model, 4506 or something like that. They were fullsize, not compacts.


With an attitude like that I can see why us "Fucking Cops" in west Florida would burn paper on you.


----------



## Marcus99

Up here in Northern MA I've seen mostly Sig's and Beretta's. When I was in the gun shop a few weeks ago I asked an officer who was in there and he said he was carrying a P226 in a 40. My guess as to the Beretta's would be that departments picked them up after the military did, the stigma of being a military gun probably lent it to being favored.

I'd like to hear more about the Mark 23 HK though. I've read up on it in the past and it seems like the ultimate in handguns. Of course, I've never fired one and at the price of upwards of $2,000 I doubt I ever will, they also seem to be pretty rare.


----------



## Nanook

KingAirDriver said:


> All of the LEOs around Kansas and Kansas City, MO that I've seen have Glocks. Whenever we fly into little po-dunk towns, LEOs often stop by the plane to chat and every one has had a Glock. Even the ambulance drivers/security guards at the local hospital in Wichita have Glocks, although one older guy has a larger revolver.


Whoa!!! Your Ambulance Drivers carry guns? It has been a while since I was in Wichita, is it that bad?!?

KL
:buttkick:


----------



## Nanook

I suspect that Glock "owns" the "Pro" market (I am using the term loosely). The military has a lot of M9s, but not every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine is issued a sidearm. The largest portion of GIs (no matter what service) carry a rifle. My unit had 25 M-16A2's assigned to it, but we had only two M9s. The SFC, and the LT were the only ones that got a sidearm (or even got to qualify). The military has a large number of M9's, a few SIG 228's (aka M11), a few 1911A1's, a few Ruger's (P89 I think, USA Material Command, and USA Trans. Comm.), and even fewer still MK23's. NYPD alone has appx. 38,000 officers, a large number of those officers carry a Glock. Our local PD issues the Glock 22, my office is deputy preference. I have not taken a poll, but I did an informal count this evening. Glock holds down about 50%, 1911a1 holds down appx. 30%, Beretta has probably 10%, with 5% going to Sig, the rest are S&W, H&K, one Kahr, and one guy with a Browning HP. I may be missing something, but Glock seems to have the market well in hand. S&W seem to be making inroads with the M&P. 

KL
:smt1099


----------



## fidalgoman

Bean counters often have a say in what weapon officers carry. You carry what the department issues. If you think that all LEO's are into guns as much as the people on this forum you would be mistaken. Many could give a rip.

Now you might find it interesting what is carried when politics and department mandates don't apply. For officers who are into their guns some would still pick the Glock for it's dependability but others might just pick a slicked up 1911. I know a few who have. :mrgreen:


----------



## ThorOdinson

*Bangers*

Have to laugh. Early 70's my partner and I were real outsiders because we carried S&W 39's in 9mm. Next city the chief hated 39's and worked to have them replaced with S&W 19's. Half the story was to have same ammo as every other cop.
Now my old PD carries just about everything except a revolver. 9's, 40's, 45's. Can't find a Mod 39 anywhere. Like a 1911 in 45 myself but a brother carries a S&W in 10mm. Hard to find any ammo in 10mm so we reload.


----------



## literaltrance

ThorOdinson said:


> Have to laugh. Early 70's my partner and I were real outsiders because we carried S&W 39's in 9mm. Next city the chief hated 39's and worked to have them replaced with S&W 19's. Half the story was to have same ammo as every other cop.
> Now my old PD carries just about everything except a revolver. 9's, 40's, 45's. Can't find a Mod 39 anywhere. Like a 1911 in 45 myself but a brother carries a S&W in 10mm. Hard to find any ammo in 10mm so we reload.


Georgia Arms has GREAT prices on 10mm defense loads (+p hollowpoints to be exact).

And to stay on topic with this thread I should probably mention I've noticed a lot more LEs lately with Sigs rather than Glocks.


----------



## RUGER45

Im in the Washington DC area and here MPD(dc police dept) carry Glocks. MD state police just got the Beretta P-4 storm in .40cal. Pg county are using 92-F Berettas amd the United States Park police are using Heckler Kochs p2000 in .40cal or P7 in 9mm.


----------



## hideit

falchunt:
there are a lot of loe's - more than officers in the military and a lot of officers in the military don't use a handgun
i asked my son, who is going to iraq in the fall and he hasn't been issued one yet


----------



## falchunt

I feel like with LEO's carrying a fairly wide variety of handguns, including some berettas, it seems like this would be leaning towards beretta's favor. I realize that not everyone in the military carries a handgun, if that were the case this would be a wasteful thread.


----------



## ka-chow

GLOCKS handsdown. No other handgun in recent history has taken the world by storm.
I know 1911 are the cat's meow but...that's American cats that do the most meowing.


----------



## RogerThat

My buddy is finishing his last week of the Police Academy and he just got his gun issued.. he got a glock 17 .. he said you can qualify for a .45 caliber but only a few people in the academy got qualified for that he said you have to meet the guidelines for whatever your trying to get issued

Even without this instance, I would have said glock would be the number 1 for police officers.. as far as military.. I have no idea


----------



## falchunt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_pistol

"The M9 is the standard pistol of the U.S. Army and Air Force Security Forces, and the M9A1 is the standard pistol of the U.S. Marines.[6] A large number of M9s and M9A1s was ordered in 2006. During the 2009 SHOT Show, Beretta announced it had received a US$220 million contract for the delivery of 450,000 M9s and M9A1s to the U.S. military, within a five-year span."

http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Glock

"Many estimates place Glock's market share among U.S. police departments at over 60% (based on total number of guns sold, not percentage of departments). Glock's website states their pistols are "...in use in 65% of law enforcement agencies."

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/lawenf.htm

"Total number of LEO's in US = 836,787"

The military placed an order for 450,000 Beretta pistols to be filled out within 4 years. They do not get rid of all of their older models. My brother is at Ft. Bragg right now, and just told me that the M9's that they use there are old as dirt, and have been abused. Based on this, one can only assume that the Military is using far more than the 450,000 M9's they sold recently. Using that logic, I would think that Beretta is more widely used between LEO's and military.


----------



## MT Wallet

jimg11 said:


> For Law Enforcement which out numbers the Military I believe that it is the Glock. My department issues the Sig Pro 2340 DAO in 357 Sig. The Sig 226 In 9mm +P+ is issued by an adjoining town while the bigger town north of us issues 40 S&W Glocks. The State Police issue 4506 Smith & Wessons in .45 acp. Several posters Mentioned PROs but I do not feel that most Police officers considers themselves Gun Professionals unless they are on SWAT or SERT Teams or Attached to the Firearms Training function. For the Line Officer the Firearm is just a thing he carries just in case. I have told by officers that a good pen is more important to them than their duty weapon.
> The Glock has a big following as it is easy to carry and simple to use and reliable even following missuse. Many of the Gun Pros do us the 1911 Colt design.


I don't subscribe to that mindset that my pen is more important than the duty weapon, perhaps what they meant to say is their pen is used more OFTEN than their weapon and that is a good thing

I go to the range regularly and just because you can only see one gun on an Officer's hip don't assume that it is his only gun or weapon

Pens make excellent stabbing weapons btw


----------



## spongebobmac

ive seen alot of sig and m&p, and the occasional glock


----------



## bent21606

franklinville nj just got xd40s


----------



## SIGness

I chose SIG, I didn't want to spoil the fun by googling. Obviously I was wrong.... lol. But one thing I am noticing is that alot of LEO's are turning from the Glocks. No facts to support my claim, just from what I've been reading on various forums and media agencies.

Glock standards have been held far and above its competition for years. Seems alot of the more reputable companies are closing the gap.


----------



## Thanatos

My local PD in Phenix City, AL uses .40 Glocks. Across the river in Columbus, GA the PD uses Smith & Wesson M&Ps.

Federal law enforcement is a mixture of Sig and Glock these days. When I did my internship with U.S. Probation over the summer, the standard issue for a USPO is a .40 Glock, choice between the G22 and G23.


----------



## bruce333

Friend of mine just got on with the Selma NC PD, he was issued a HK45.


----------



## Semi-jacketed

Military and LEO missions are different; therefore sidearm choices vary accordingly. Allocated resources and political realities differ widely as well. Having been both over the years I'll tell you what I've observed and learned through research.

Most military have the Beretta 92FS. It is the default issue. Some high speed low drag types can choose something else, but those aren't very prevalent just the most talked about.

Most LEOs carry a glock. It is a good sidearm and allows LEOs to purchase them very inexpensively compared to others.

The rest is simply rationalization for someone's favorite carry typically. Personally, both are good, but I don't carry either one due to personal preference, experience and training.


----------



## Freedom1911

The leader on the board is Glock. And after buying one a little while back and taking it to the range, and getting to finally see for my self what a Glock can do. I can see why there are so many Glock fans.
I do wish that Glocks had a manual safety on them. Much like the XD45 that was set up with a thumb safety.


----------



## Freedom1911

ka-chow said:


> GLOCKS handsdown. No other handgun in recent history has taken the world by storm.
> I know 1911 are the cat's meow but...that's American cats that do the most meowing.


LOL I do love my 1911. It has a big round but has the smoothest trigger and lowest felt recoil of all my pistols. Big part of the reason why I want a Para 18-9.
Really want to see what a 9mm coming out of that old war horse 1911 system will be like.
I had a super sweet Kimber Grand Raptor 2, and it cost me quite a bit. I took it out shooting once in all the years I had it. I forced my self that one time. It was so pretty and cost so much I did not want to mess it up by shooting it.
Finally, after it sitting in my closet for so long I took it back to my ffl and traded it on a XDm 9mm and a revolver and several hundred dollars. Got a good return out of it and I actually shoot the guns I have now.
My lesson learned. Never buy a gun that is so expensive and nice looking that you will not want to shoot it.


----------



## dondavis3

I was just talking to a police officer in Hurst Texas and he was telling me that his department is changing from Colt 1911 to Kimber 1911 and they are about 1/2 done.

I asked him what they were doing with their old Colts :mrgreen:

But he didn't know.


----------



## falchunt

It's funny how people just ignore the facts and state their opinion.


----------



## deputy125

i tend to observe more glock firearms in LEO circles in my travels in Texas than any other brand.

I can not comment on the "whys" as i don't ask..........


----------



## hideit

the most is the glock in police enforcement
the military is the bereta 92fs -
an update my son issued himself a beretta - he is the company XO - he likes the 92fs feels good in his hand


----------



## recoilguy

falchunt said:


> It's funny how people just ignore the facts and state their opinion.


That is true......you can sound real smart on the net and not ever experianced what you are talking about. Some posters believe their opinions are facts, and think if they cut and paste a picture or a link they gain credibility. They not only ignore the facts but justify opinion with the opinion of others. You gotta love the internet!

RCG


----------



## algore is a fatwoman

Most of the cops I see waddling around have berettas or sigs. I personally fear for our military knowing that they have to use berettas. The H&K usp .40 shows them to be the chinese quality nonsense that they are. Beretta owners are usually too cheap or high on drugs to have ever shot a usp, and wouldn't know quality if it tasted like donuts.


----------



## Freedom1911

falchunt said:


> It's funny how people just ignore the facts and state their opinion.


"Many of the things we hold true are based on a particular point of view" Ones opinion.
A quote from a wise old Jedi. This is true for many people that are not privy to the force.
Facts mean nothing to the Nuggets in Washington, the ONLY thing we ever here _is_ their personal opinion.

But opinion _is_ what makes the world go round. Without opinion, (despite facts) the world would be a boring place.


----------



## dondavis3

Nice going algore is a fatwoman


With that last post you pretty well slapped most on this forum.


----------



## falchunt

Freedom1911 said:


> "Many of the things we hold true are based on a particular point of view" Ones opinion.
> A quote from a wise old Jedi. This is true for many people that are not privy to the force.
> Facts mean nothing to the Nuggets in Washington, the ONLY thing we ever here _is_ their personal opinion.
> 
> But opinion _is_ what makes the world go round. Without opinion, (despite facts) the world would be a boring place.


Well that is a very interesting perspective, and also true.:smt023


----------



## dondavis3

+1 Freedom1911

So true.

:smt1099


----------



## terryger

> Most LEOs carry a glock. It is a good sidearm and allows LEOs to *purchase them very inexpensively compared to others.*


bottom line.

the same reason leo drive more fords than mercedes :smt023


----------



## dondavis3

+1 terryger

:smt023


----------



## tobymcso506

*have always carried glock on duty*

I have carried a glock model 22 on duty since I became a cop at age 23. I am 30 now and still carry the same weapon now with a TLR-1 light in a safariland level II holster. I also have a ruger new vaquero 45 long colt with custom grips that is my special occasion rig. Have given thought to a custom 1911 in .45acp to carry on duty, maybe a STI or Wilson Combat.


----------



## ECHOONE

If your considering international also it would definetly be Sig Sauer over Glock! Glock is mostly only purchased by the Untied states LE agencies and is loosing alot of those agencies that it once had! HK was just awarded contract for supplying the u.s army spec ops with there .45's The Navy is still with Sig,Air force is still with Glock I believe but over sea's is real big on the sigs,not Glock,Glock is a fine pistol but has been loosing ground lately in there sales!


----------



## flip

My department issues H&K USP45s. They replaced our S&W 4576s which replaced or S&W 66s. I don't know what we had before that. They are seemed to work okay for me.


----------



## hipmatt

FROM THE SIG WEBITE:
In the USA, nearly 1 in 3 law enforcement professionals use SIG SAUER firearms. “We are proud that many elite military and government forces including the U.S. Navy Seals, the Federal Air Marshals, the Department of Homeland Security and the U. S. Coast Guard carry SIG SAUER firearms”, said Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER.


----------



## Gebirgsjäger

Revolver said:


> Military is obviously the Beretta. Locally(and elsewhere), the Beretta is pretty frequent with most police departments too. So if I had to count US Armed Forces AND LE Beretta would have to win, _obviously_. The inclusion of military makes Beretta the winner. H&K has a pretty strong precense among SOCOM(Mk23 ring a bell?).


I can only speak about Europe, especially Germany. German Army is using the H&K USP (they call it P8). Also a lot of German Police Departments using HK P7, USP compact and HK P2000. The German KSK (Kommando Spezialkräfte, equal to the British SAS) is using USP Tactical. The German GSG9 is using Glock and H&K. Other popular guns in German Police Forces are Walther P99 and SigSauer. I also know that the french navy is using the USP


----------



## manta

In n ireland the police carry glocks , probably because they are cheap . I have read of some police departments in america changing their .40 and .45 glocks for 9mm because of case failures resulting in the gun being destroyed . It usually comes down to buying a adequate gun at the cheapest price , Thats why glocks are so popular .


----------



## austin88

manta said:


> In n ireland the police carry glocks , probably because they are cheap . I have read of some police departments in america changing their .40 and .45 glocks for 9mm because of case failures resulting in the gun being destroyed . It usually comes down to buying a adequate gun at the cheapest price , Thats why glocks are so popular .


a case failure in any gun will lead to it being destroyed not just a glock. with all the glocks out there how many of them actually explode in your hand. not many and if they do its because of the round not the gun


----------



## manta

austin88 said:


> a case failure in any gun will lead to it being destroyed not just a glock. with all the glocks out there how many of them actually explode in your hand. not many and if they do its because of the round not the gun


Yes but glocks are known for having poor case support , Compared with other semi autos , Thats why you can buy barrels with better support from other sources. On a steel gun you can get away with the mag being blown out , On plastic guns the gun tends to be destroyed.


----------



## Riverside Joe

Police, Glock. Military, Sig Sauer. Sig passed the US miltary mil-spec standard grading requirements over 15 years ago. I prefer it to the glock. The Sigs I'm sure have replaced all the worn out Colts in the US miltary by now.--------RJ


----------



## Green Laser

*Most used in the world.*



James NM said:


> I vote CZ 75 B.
> 
> From the CZ website: CZ-USA -> Product Categories


Ditto!:buttkick:


----------



## mik3gun

I have read about many people and LEO use glock.. but in somewhere I read that glock has very low price and that is attractive and someone said glock sometimes buy the old guns and lower more the price...and that is why they get many contracts 

but I think that doesnt mean glock is the best pistol for that..

For sure many people buy glock cause this is cheaper than many other brands like walther, HK, sig, S&W, and so on..


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

with OVER 450,000 m9 pistols in service with the u.s. military alone the obvious answer is that more berettas are used since this number does not include any other model beretta pistol or any other user.

that was 450,000 NEW m9's as of the 2009 contract and doesnt take into account the pistols acquired since the mid 80s


----------



## jakeleinen1

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> with OVER 450,000 m9 pistols in service with the u.s. military alone the obvious answer is that more berettas are used since this number does not include any other model beretta pistol or any other user.


Wtf is up with the U.S. Military and the M9 beretta? I know its all political, but its asinine

A soldier has enough to carry without having to carry an ALL METAL gun, the U.S. should really consider changing the official sidearm to GLOCK or something polymer

Not to say Beretta isn't good but I just think its silly that the gov't keeps issuing these 9mm berettas when they could give our soldiers .45 acp glock which would weigh less and give our soldiers alittle more firepower and alot less JAM


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

jakeleinen1 said:


> Wtf is up with the U.S. Military and the M9 beretta? I know its all political, but its asinine
> 
> A soldier has enough to carry without having to carry an ALL METAL gun, the U.S. should really consider changing the official sidearm to GLOCK or something polymer
> 
> Not to say Beretta isn't good but I just think its silly that the gov't keeps issuing these 9mm berettas when they could give our soldiers .45 acp glock which would weigh less and give our soldiers alittle more firepower and alot less JAM


the requirements of a police duty weapon and a combat service weapon are eons apart. the police weapon needs to function when removed from a holster, the combat weapon needs to function when removed from a muddy ditch..... the ak47 is comparatively heavy when measured against the m16 of my generation but the ak was considered a better COMBAT weapon because it has very loose tolerances AND would fire all the time.

a combat weapon needs to work frozen, wet, muddy, gritty, sandy, hot and bloody. anyone whose azz depends on the reliability of a weapon would gladly keep the weight for toughness. i am sure that your experience in these matters consists of the finest reading materials on the market. perhaps you even played the best video games around, maybe even lead an elite team of men in online combat role playing scenarios but until you get out in the sh!t yourself and bet your life on your weapon, your opinion means the same as the desk flying admiral or the accountant general ..... nothing.


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

actually forgive me for making some assumptions .... 

which make and model did you carry during your last combat assignment?

ok, during your last non combat deployment?

ok during your last stateside posting?

perhaps during your basic training?

rotc in college maybe?

any kind of military service at all?

maybe my assumptions were a little closer to home than i thought.


----------



## 8Eric6

around here it's glock and sig mostly glock tho


----------



## Cat

Here is what you all need to read, So everyone can see. There is many pistols,And rifles used. They all have rolls to play.
List of individual weapons of the U.S. Armed Forces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individual_weapons_of_the_U.S._Armed_Forces

And the ones that are in the service and The ones that (Was) Know this. If they like a 1911 over the 92fs. Can they use the one they won't ?. For the ones that don't know. (Read up/Keep up)

And look at the sig, US. was going with that one. But the price was to high. 92fs was the low price for are military to buy.
They was going for the sig,But the bid was to high, So next was beretta was the lower bid.

Read read read read,Keep up with the life of shooting, Started back in 1450BC. That is how old the spots is.

How many great pistols can we all buy in the US. Their are so many to love.

Thank you Ted, For what you said on here. Just got me thinking about my time in the service. Your so right about what you said. It as every thing to do with this post.:smt1099


----------



## jakeleinen1

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> a combat weapon needs to work frozen, wet, muddy, gritty, sandy, hot and bloody. anyone whose azz depends on the reliability of a weapon would gladly keep the weight for toughness. i am sure that your experience in these matters consists of the finest reading materials on the market. perhaps you even played the best video games around, maybe even lead an elite team of men in online combat role playing scenarios but until you get out in the sh!t yourself and bet your life on your weapon, your opinion means the same as the desk flying admiral or the accountant general ..... nothing.


Dude a Glock can be tortured massively and still function, you can drop it in sand and dirt or mud and its going to fire still. These M9s do have jamming issues after a certain ammo count, not to mention non-beretta mags issued by the gov't.

To be honest there are many different firearms our Armed Services could issue to our soldiers that would be FAR better than the M9, they choose M9 beretta because its CHEAP

and you want to talk about lousy main weapons the AK is superior to the M4 as well but they still use the M4 in the military as well

The wars the American Military fight are all about money and it shows through various avenues

Im not the only one who thinks the m9 is a lousy sidearm for soldiers, 
Pt. 1 " Why Glock?" - YouTube


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

jakeleinen1 said:


> Dude a Glock can be tortured massively and still function, you can drop it in sand and dirt or mud and its going to fire still. These M9s do have jamming issues after a certain ammo count, not to mention non-beretta mags issued by the gov't.
> 
> To be honest there are many different firearms our Armed Services could issue to our soldiers that would be FAR better than the M9, they choose M9 beretta because its CHEAP
> 
> and you want to talk about lousy main weapons the AK is superior to the M4 as well but they still use the M4 in the military as well
> 
> The wars the American Military fight are all about money and it shows through various avenues
> 
> Im not the only one who thinks the m9 is a lousy sidearm for soldiers,
> Pt. 1 " Why Glock?" - YouTube


i now withdraw all my assumptions, your vast military experience coupled with your youtube link have shown me the light.....


----------



## jakeleinen1

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> i now withdraw all my assumptions, your vast military experience coupled with your youtube link have shown me the light.....


Glad I changed your mind

But I will never join the Armed forces, I can't shoot somebody based on war propaganda...


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

jakeleinen1 said:


> Glad I changed your mind
> 
> But I will never join the Armed forces, I can't shoot somebody based on war propaganda...


yes, of course, i bow to your superior feelings and unwavering beliefs based on others experiences


----------



## Overkill0084

jakeleinen1 said:


> But I will never join the Armed forces, I can't shoot somebody based on war propaganda...


A very naive and immature sounding statement. All wars have propaganda, good, bad or indifferent. Would you say that WW2 was unjust? Propaganda was a tool used by all players. 
It's irrelevant anyway. You shoot someone because they will shoot you & yours if you give them the chance. Press releases from the white house are irrelevant when your deployed.


----------



## dondavis3

@ Overkill0084

Amen to that .. very naive indeed.

Thank God there are very smart & brave people that fight for his right to say such things.

There are lot's of country's that you can't say that in. 

IMHO

:smt1099


----------



## denner

jakeleinen1 said:


> Dude a Glock can be tortured massively and still function, you can drop it in sand and dirt or mud and its going to fire still. These M9s do have jamming issues after a certain ammo count, not to mention non-beretta mags issued by the gov't.
> 
> To be honest there are many different firearms our Armed Services could issue to our soldiers that would be FAR better than the M9, they choose M9 beretta because its CHEAP
> 
> and you want to talk about lousy main weapons the AK is superior to the M4 as well but they still use the M4 in the military as well
> 
> The wars the American Military fight are all about money and it shows through various avenues
> 
> Im not the only one who thinks the m9 is a lousy sidearm for soldiers,
> Pt. 1 " Why Glock?" - YouTube


The U.S. military will never adopt Glock as the main combat firearm due to the weapon not having an external safety among other issues. If they did there would be so many "Glock Legged Soldiers" in the infirmery the Army wouldn't have enough enlisted personnel in case of battle. On a brighter note the M9 is not a small firearm nor the lightest, lighter than a Sig 226, but it's a durable reliable firearm that has proven itself in battle. Andy Brown took out a lunatic with an Ak-47 loaded with a drum magazine with a 70 yard headshot from his M9. I kinda like that story and if the U.S. Military decides to retire the M9, I would venture the PX4 Storm would be a better choice over the Glock as an official U.S. Military sidearm. I've heard some initial tests were done with the Storm and it passed with flying colors, plus the storm has a more durable action over the Glock. You should trade in your Glock and get one, you'll like it, plus it's safer and it doesn't feel like your shooting a carpenters staple gun.


----------



## jakeleinen1

denner said:


> I kinda like that story and if the U.S. Military decides to retire the M9, I would venture the PX4 Storm would be a better choice over the Glock as an official U.S. Military sidearm. I've heard some initial tests were done with the Storm and it passed with flying colors, plus the storm has a more durable action over the Glock. You should trade in your Glock and get one, you'll like it,


I did actually get one alongside my glock, they are equal in accuracy, and yes I do agree, the Military should opt for the Px4 Storm to all soldiers, the saftey is awesome

Im still going for the glock at night for home defense tho just for the fact that I kno when i rack the slide theres nothing preventing me from firing the weapon


----------



## jakeleinen1

Overkill0084 said:


> A very naive and immature sounding statement. All wars have propaganda, good, bad or indifferent. Would you say that WW2 was unjust? Propaganda was a tool used by all players.
> It's irrelevant anyway. You shoot someone because they will shoot you & yours if you give them the chance. Press releases from the white house are irrelevant when your deployed.


Afgahnastan (bad spelling don't care), Iraq, soon maybe Iran, then what, the rest of the middle eastern countries???

Are we shooting terrorists or people that are simply pissed off we have invaded their country? I'm not sure the U.S. military actually knows. I don't believe the terrorists are as organized as CNN leads us to believe.

If someone were to invade the USA, I would shoot them. I would be a "terrorist" to them wouldn't I.

I HIGHLY RESPECT the people in the military and america is okay aside politics but I wish we could bring the boys home because these wars are ridiculous and the war on terrorism is as feudal as the war on drugs


----------



## Overkill0084

jakeleinen1 said:


> Afgahnastan (bad spelling don't care), Iraq, soon maybe Iran, then what, the rest of the middle eastern countries???
> 
> Are we shooting terrorists or people that are simply pissed off we have invaded their country? I'm not sure the U.S. military actually knows. I don't believe the terrorists are as organized as CNN leads us to believe.
> 
> If someone were to invade the USA, I would shoot them. I would be a "terrorist" to them wouldn't I.
> 
> I HIGHLY RESPECT the people in the military and america is okay aside politics but I wish we could bring the boys home because these wars are ridiculous and the war on terrorism is as feudal as the war on drugs


Whether anyone likes to admit it, war is simply a political tool. If you disagree with the politics that led to a particular war, thats fine. But all wars are not created equal. At what point does a war become "justified?" People who were sheltered and trained by afghanistan or it's proxys blew up some buildings and killed 3000ish americans some years back. Does that not meet the threshold of justification? If not, then what? If you don't engage the source of the attackers then you're simply treating a symptom.
FWIW, I was serving in the USAF on 9/11/01. So I think I can say I had a dog in the fight.


----------



## jakeleinen1

Overkill0084 said:


> People who were sheltered and trained by afghanistan or it's proxys blew up some buildings and killed 3000ish americans some years back. Does that not meet the threshold of justification? If not, then what? If you don't engage the source of the attackers then you're simply treating a symptom.


if you want to get the people responsible for 9/11, you don't have to fly overseas to look for them. But thats all I will say about that.


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

jakeleinen1 said:


> if you want to get the people responsible for 9/11, you don't have to fly overseas to look for them. But thats all I will say about that.


seriously? this is what you really believe?


----------



## Cat

:smt115 Homework is power.Omg.laws of physics. Run forest run.


manta said:


> yes but glocks are known for having poor case support , compared with other semi autos , thats why you can buy barrels with better support from other sources. On a steel gun you can get away with the mag being blown out , on plastic guns the gun tends to be destroyed.


----------



## Cat

I wish my name was on here.Citizens' Military Pistol Trophy Look down and see (In Red) the top shooter. And then see how many years it was to take it from the old top shooter.

This is why I love the sport of shooting.Is to say on top.


----------



## high pockets

CZs


----------



## prof_fate

Why do you want to know? Plan on marketing something to them?
Why they chose a particular gun may or may not pertain to why you would pick a particular gun.
My choices over the years have had nothing to do with what others have chosen. For example, teh 223 for NATO and most of the world's army was chosen because it wasn't as lethal as other choices.
The 9mm is often chosen for LE because of it's lesser recoil than other calibers so more folks can use it and use it accurately. The 40 was developed because the 9 wasn't seen as having sufficient stopping power. The US military switched from 45 to 9...not sure why but it wasn't for increased stopping power.
I know some brands have not been chosen for such reasons as country of manufacture, manufacturer support, etc. Doesn't mean they weren't better guns for the intended purpose.
Locally the few officers I've spoken with usually have choices - the dept picks the caliber and the officer chooses what gun, perhaps with some limitations. Some like glock, some S&W and some I know chose SA XD's. Some probably prefer revolvers.


----------



## manta

Edit.


----------



## manta

Cat said:


> :smt115 Homework is power.Omg.laws of physics. Run forest run.


You have lost me. Your point please.


----------



## berettatoter

I think the question is compairing and apple to an orange. We all know, for the most part, the military runs the M9 Beretta, but I would say that most police forces run either a Glock or a SIG anymore. JMHO.


----------



## ctrcs

Your question is too vague. If you mean US LE & military, probably Beretta & Glock, but if you mean worldwide, the Chinese military is using the QSZ-92 for instance.


----------



## Brevard13

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> seriously? this is what you really believe?


The more you post the more I believe we have alot in common!

Conspiracy guys are amusing to listen to for awhile.


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

Brevard13 said:


> .....Conspiracy guys are amusing to listen to for awhile.


we are taught at the meetings to report conspiracy guys immediately so they can be picked up for re-indoctrination.


----------



## chessail77

Guess those pictures of planes flying into the towers were fake...all of them including the ones civilians took ...the countless numbers of them ...damn that was a real trick to pull off that one.....JJ

Glocks worldwide is likely the best answer to the OP.....


----------



## surferdaddy

I have read that the s&w m&p is getting very popular amongst various departments. Wonder why it was not in the poll?


----------



## Packard

The county police use S & W (I think, .40 caliber). I'm not sure what the Staties use. I'll have to look the next time I see one.


----------



## VAMarine

surferdaddy said:


> I have read that the s&w m&p is getting very popular amongst various departments. Wonder why it was not in the poll?


Because the poll is six years old. The M&P was only about a year old at the time.


----------



## sjcea

jakeleinen1 said:


> if you want to get the people responsible for 9/11, you don't have to fly overseas to look for them. But thats all I will say about that.


Unreal!!! Conspiracy theorists?


----------



## sjcea

chessail77 said:


> Guess those pictures of planes flying into the towers were fake...all of them including the ones civilians took ...the countless numbers of them ...damn that was a real trick to pull off that one.....JJ
> 
> Glocks worldwide is likely the best answer to the OP.....


I lost 4 relatives that horrible day. Not a day goes by I do not recall what happened that day or the 4 days afterward that I spent on site searching for survivors at ground zero! So don't get me started about it being justified! It could not have been more justified!!


----------



## berettabone

I don't know.............most of them in my area are carrying Sigs or HK's........


----------



## goNYG

From CZ's website: "CZ 75 B is used by more governments, militaries, police and security agencies than any other pistol in the world." Parsing the language that may mean more, countable entities/agencies rather than number of firearms in use, but it likely puts them up there somewhere near the top, I would guess


----------



## clance

Most of the LEO in my area use the Glock 22, there are some Sigs (I think MSP still uses them?) and some S&Ws

I myself for years working security and personal protection (aka: bodyguard) industry used primarly a Browning High Power or a Walther PPK/s but I think more the industry are now carrying the different makes of Tactical Tupperware like Smith's M&P, XDM and yes even the Glock as their primary weapon.


----------



## oak1971

While I don't question the quality of any of the major service handguns, they might not fit your individual needs. For concealment purposes, not everyone will want to pack a full size service pistol.


----------



## TheLAGuy

Are they carrying these because they can get a good deal on these selections, or cuz they're the best in the market?

I'm guessing Glocks they get a good deal on!


----------



## TAPnRACK

They practically give Glocks away to police dept's... that's a major reason you see so many of them on LEO's. They are literally half the cost of other choices out there and budgets are tight.

I use one for duty (Gen 3 G22) currently, it's reliable but not crazy bout ergonomics or trigger. The weight is nice too... rather have my Sig P220 back though.


----------



## paratrooper

I'm retired and no longer in LE, but I have heard that SIG is making quite an effort to get their product in the hands of as many LE depts. and agencies as possible. 

I have seen quite a few SIGS in the holsters of LE here and there.


----------



## Newfenoix

In SE Texas, you can find a variety. In Beaumont, I have seen Sig P226's and P250's; Glocks, M&P's and 1911's. My agency, the TDCJ has just adopted the M&P .357. The DPS including the Rangers carry the Sig P226 in .357. Also with our agency, OIG (internal affairs) and the K9 folks carry Glocks. But I do know that nation wide, Glock has between 65 and 70 percent of the LE market. This stuff about CZ being the most common worldwide is marketing BS. Internationally, the old Browning GP (High Power) used to be the most common pistol in the world. But since the advent of the Glock, Beretta M92, Sig P226 and the HK's it has lost a great deal of its market. I have NEVER seen the CZ75 issued anywhere. I have read that it is the pistol of the armed forces of the Czech Republic but I can't confirm that. It is a great pistol.


----------



## paratrooper

When out and about, I pay attention to what the LE are carrying.

I've never seen a holstered CZ, Ruger, Hi-Point or Taurus, yet.


----------



## Couch Potato

The world's largest military (sixty percent larger than the combined US armed forces) carries the QSZ-92 (recently changed fro the Type 77) so I'm guessing that may well be the most carried. The poll is much like asking the most common last name. Typically people give answers like Smith, Jones, or Johnson (which is of course the right answer if your restricting yourself to Rock Ridge) when in fact the most common name is currently Wang with Li being number two.


----------



## boringknowitall

I read someplace that the Military doesn't use striker fired pistols because of the harder primer caps on military ammo. With a hammer fired gun you just pull back the hammer and try again but with striker fired you have to eject the round and load another.


----------



## VAMarine

boringknowitall said:


> I read someplace that the Military doesn't use striker fired pistols because of the harder primer caps on military ammo. With a hammer fired gun you just pull back the hammer and try again but with striker fired you have to eject the round and load another.


IThe UK just adopted the G17 and some groups in the US Army use the Glock. I've ran a good amount of mixed NATO 9mm through some of our Glocks and never had an issue.

Regular NATO 9mm ammo doesn't have that hard of primers, its the ammo specifically for subguns that have harder primers.


----------



## smitty901

Meaning less. LEO use what they are told. Not the best or anything else. Glock has for some time now way under priced their weapons to LE as a way to market them.
Here LE price is 350 for any model
Just because the Army or LE carries something does not mean it is a good weapon for you.


----------



## Donn

I suspect this thread's real purpose is to promote even more Glock love, (LOL). Seriously, most if not all police departments go with the lowest bidder, (preferably free), as does the military. If cost were no option, they'd be all carrying Les Baer or Nighthawk customs. No slam on Glock, they're a proven commodity, but unless the department lets you buy your own service weapon, you take what you're issued.


----------



## Yosh

Glock


----------



## Yosh

Im not a Glock owner, my gun is an XD. but I have been in about 30 countries and always notice the police officers and theres always someone with a Glock, a lot of them carry their national guns like Grandpower in Slovenia, the XD HS in some eastern european countries.. But Glocks are everywhere. Right now I'm in Guatemala and their primary is IWI Jericho aka Baby desert eagle. Still maybe 3 out of 10 carry a Glock. I lived in Honduras last year, officers who save some money or have a good position then buy Glock. 
A general of the Colombian police, friend of mine = Glock. I dont love Glocks but thats what I have seen. Berettas are almost as common as Glocks


----------



## Yosh

Donn said:


> I suspect this thread's real purpose is to promote even more Glock love, (LOL). Seriously, most if not all police departments go with the lowest bidder, (preferably free), as does the military. If cost were no option, they'd be all carrying Les Baer or Nighthawk customs. No slam on Glock, they're a proven commodity, but unless the department lets you buy your own service weapon, you take what you're issued.


I agree, I just saw a video that said GLOCK is not the best gun in the market. But it probably is the best gun for its price.


----------



## KampfJaeger

In both your weapons were made by the lowest bidder!


----------



## KampfJaeger

The last time I think the soldiers actually got to design and make the pistols themselves a certain Col. Walker was working with a certain Col. Colt.


----------



## denner

I betcha a lot of CZ75's and their clones are being used around the world by LE and military


----------



## spooler41

SIG's with Sauce, I'm loving it.

. ......................Jack


----------



## donk123

around here,in ohio,le uses glocks. state highway patrol uses sigs. worldwide,cz may be the most used. i guess if depends on where you live and your definition of le and military.i know most military use berettas,i have a glock and beretta and would love to add a sig to the collection,preferrably a 226.love them all.


----------



## RK3369

smitty901 said:


> Meaning less. LEO use what they are told. Not the best or anything else. Glock has for some time now way under priced their weapons to LE as a way to market them.
> Here LE price is 350 for any model
> Just because the Army or LE carries something does not mean it is a good weapon for you.


It means that, all other characteristics being equal, they being "governmental" agencies in this country are required to use the least expensive option, at least if they are using any federal money to make the purchases. Definitely does not make it the best, but if there are no other criteria to determine an award, price rules. If a manufacturer deliberately underprices it's product to the government market and there are no other competitors who are demonstrably superior in quality, performance, reliability, or any of the other factors considered in evaluating the bid, the lowest price "responsible" and "responsive" bidder will win the offering.

"Responsible" means they have a demonstrated track record of meeting their commitments in other award situations, or can demonstrate that they are capable of meeting their commitments.

"Responsive" means that they presented a product which meets the specifications of the bid, not some piece of clearly inferior junk that is below the standards in the specifications simply as a means of becoming the low price bidder and winning the solicitation.


----------



## Cait43

Law enforcement departments rely mostly on the best deal(money wise) they can get on the weapons.. Also playing a part is the person doing the ordering of the weapons(personal preference).

Just because X weapon is mostly used by most law enforcement/military does not mean it is the greatest weapon out there..... 

As someone stated, they use the weapon they are told to us.......


----------



## DaleBalkie

Our LE uses mostly S&W M&P, 5904, 3914! However we have some sigs, berettas and glocks as well. Mostly 9mm calibre. Or military sidearms are mostly brownings with a small mix of sigs, glocks, berettas and s&w.


----------



## Reddog1

Mike Barham said:


> ...
> Most soldiers are abysmal shots, and the Big Army is more afraid of its own weapons than the enemy, anyway. Marines are generally better rifle shots, but pistol training is sparse and pretty lousy in the military.


Don't know what Army you have been watching lately but your statement about the Army being bad shots is full of it and an insult. Afraid of its own weapons? That's just a stupid remark. Where is your data or proof? I suspect you evidence is antidotal at best but I'll wait for it. If you can't produce it then you owe all of us Army guys, active or retired, an apology.


----------



## paratrooper

Reddog1 said:


> http://www.handgunforum.net/member.php?u=657 Mike Barham
> Most soldiers are abysmal shots, and the Big Army is more afraid of its own weapons than the enemy, anyway. Marines are generally better rifle shots, but pistol training is sparse and pretty lousy in the military.


That might be the case in today's military, but it sure wasn't back in the mid 1970's. I know of five guys that were shown the door, because they simply could not qualify on the range. They weren't even given a chance to try a different MOS.

Today's military tends to come up short in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to get into a pissing match with anyone and justify my statement.


----------



## GCBHM

Revolver said:


> Military is obviously the Beretta. Locally(and elsewhere), the Beretta is pretty frequent with most police departments too. So if I had to count US Armed Forces AND LE Beretta would have to win, _obviously_. The inclusion of military makes Beretta the winner. H&K has a pretty strong precense among SOCOM(Mk23 ring a bell?).


Actually no, Glock dominates the market. They have more of a military presence and in LE also than Beretta. You have to think world wide, not just US. Glock is the most widely used pistol by professionals, hands down.


----------



## TAPnRACK

Actually, I believe the CZ 75 is the most widely used service pistol worldwide.


----------



## GCBHM

TAPnRACK said:


> Actually, I believe the CZ 75 is the most widely used service pistol worldwide.


A clone of the CZ maybe, but not the actual CZ. The CZ75 is the second most cloned pistol in the world, next to the 1911. Also, although the 9mm may be the most widely used caliber, the Glock fields more than 9mm, so it really is a bit of an unfair advantage. Not only does Glock run the market for 9mm pistols (G17/19 for which there are no clones), they also make a run in .40, .45 and .357 Sig.


----------



## TAPnRACK

Pass me some Kool-Aid please.


----------



## GCBHM

TAPnRACK said:


> Pass me some Kool-Aid please.


OK, but that doesn't substantiate the claim. I know CZ claims to be the most widely used pistol in the world, but there is no real evidence to back the claim up; however, just look at the users of each gun, and it is clear to see there are more users of Glock than any other pistol.

I know this isn't the most reliable source, but it does give a pretty good indication:

CZ 75 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Glock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## PT111Pro

This is a strange question. Do you ask what LE and military use in the USA or in General.

The Italians Police and Military using Italian products like Berettas 
The Austrians using Austria Products mostly Glockmeister and sometimes also Styrer & Mannlicher.
The Germans using German Products like H&K, Walther, Sig Sauer etc
The France LE and Military French products like Sig Sauer
The Slovenians using Slovenian products like Zastava etc...
The Czech using Czech Products like CZ’s
The Argentinians using Argentina products like Bersa, 
the Brasil using also their Brasilia Product Taurus.
The USA LE and Military have to use Italian Products like Beretta and Austria, German Products like Sig Sauer, Glock-meister because the US has no decent engineers to build an real American Product that is safe to carry and does not embarrass the Soldier out there in the field. Right? Otherwise they would use like the others their home products to support their own Industry and spread the reputation of their fellow neighbors in the world. Right?


----------



## Goldwing

PT111Pro said:


> This is a strange question. Do you ask what LE and military use in the USA or in General.
> 
> The Italians Police and Military using Italian products like Berettas
> The Austrians using Austria Products mostly Glockmeister and sometimes also Styrer & Mannlicher.
> The Germans using German Products like H&K, Walther, Sig Sauer etc
> The France LE and Military French products like Sig Sauer
> The Slovenians using Slovenian products like Zastava etc...
> The Czech using Czech Products like CZ's
> The Argentinians using Argentina products like Bersa,
> the Brasil using also their Brasilia Product Taurus.
> The USA LE and Military have to use Italian Products like Beretta and Austria, German Products like Sig Sauer, Glock-meister because the US has no decent engineers to build an real American Product that is safe to carry and does not embarrass the Soldier out there in the field. Right? Otherwise they would use like the others their home products to support their own Industry and spread the reputation of their fellow neighbors in the world. Right?


..........And you carry what?......... Oh yeah, a Taurus.
GW


----------



## TAPnRACK

Maybe he's Brazilian.


----------



## neorebel

I'm not sure if this is really a very scientific way of finding this out. But having been an LEO for over 18 years, all I have carried are Glockerainas.

Except for a short time with one Police Department I only spent a year at. We could carry 1911's.


----------



## PT111Pro

Welll - thats easy.
Italians Gun Maker Beretta supports the Italian police and military.
The Belgum Manufacturer FN supports the most France speaking nations in Europe and Afrika. But also found in France SigSauer a German/Swiss/France corporation. SIG in German *S*chweizerische *I*ndustrie*g*emeinschaft. France *S*ociété *I*ndustrielle *S*uisse
Austria uses for police and military the Austria product Glock
and so on and on.
The nations equip their law enforcement and military with home grown product.

Only countries that don't have a decent weapon manufacturer like Finland, Zaire, Cameron or the USA

The USA for example using for their law enforcement and military:
Glock from Austria,
FN rifles and hand-firearms Belgium
Beretta hand-firearms from Italy.
I have heard that some LEO in the US have a private second weapon as a back up that is made by a home gunsmith like S&W or a other US-American manufacturer that tries to copy a weapon from overseas.


----------



## gandog56

Sadly, Glocks.


----------



## Greybeard

I have absolutely no numbers but I would guess Glock for LE.


----------



## zeke4351

*Which pistol is found more in the hands of Law Enforcement & the Military*

Here is a list of state police that needs to be updated. Please post with the latest information. They don't have any love for the 9mm unless a lot of them have changed.

Alabama Glock 22/23 (.40 S&W)
Alaska Glock 22/23 (.40 S&W)
Arizona Sig P226 (.40 S&W)
Arkansas Glock 21SF (State Police), Glock 22 (S.P. Highway Patrol) (.45 ACP, .40 S&W)
California S&W 4006TSW (.40 S&W)
Colorado S&W M&P (.40 S&W)
Connecticut Sig P226/P229 (.40 S&W) Switched to SIG P220 in 45ACP
Delaware Sig P229 (.357Sig)
Florida Glock 37 (.45 GAP)
Georgia Glock 37 (.45 GAP)
Hawaii (State Sheriff's Office, Honolulu) S&W M&P (9mm)
Idaho Glock 21 (.45 ACP) or Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Illinois Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Indiana Sig P227 (.45 ACP) switched from 9mm Glock
Iowa S&W M&P (.40 S&W)
Kansas Glock 21 (.45 ACP)
Kentucky Glock 35 Gen 4 (.40 S&W) Glock 27 Gen 4 backup
Lousiana Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Maine HK USP (.45 ACP)
Maryland Beretta Px4 (.40 S&W)
Massachusetts S&W M&P (.45 ACP)
Michigan Sig P226 (.40 S&W)
Minnesota Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Mississippi Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Missouri Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Montana Sig P229 (.357Sig)
Nebraska Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Nevada Sig P229 (.40 S&W)
New Hampshire S&W M&P (.45 ACP)
New Jersey Sig 228 (9mm)
New Mexico S&W M&P (.357 Sig).........The latest word is that NM has gone back to .40 for cost reasons
New York Glock 37 (.45 GAP)
North Carolina S&W M&P(.357Sig)
North Dakota Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Ohio Sig P229/P226 (.40 S&W)
Oklahoma Sig P226R (.357Sig)
Oregon S&W M&P (.40 S&W)
Pennsylvania Glock 37 (.45 GAP)
Rhode Island Sig P229 (.357Sig)
South Carolina Glock 37 (.45 GAP)
South Dakota Sig P229 (.357 Sig)
Tennessee Glock 31 (.357Sig)
Texas Sig P229/P226 (.357Sig) went to M&P but switched back
Utah Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Vermont S&W M&P (.40 S&W)
Virginia Sig P229RDAK (.357Sig)
Washington S&W M&P (.40 S&W)
West Virginia S&W 4566TSW (.45 ACP)
Wisconsin Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Wyoming S&W M&P (.40 S&W)


----------



## denner

PT111Pro said:


> Only countries that don't have a decent weapon manufacturer like Finland, Zaire, Cameron or the USA


Are you forgetting about Colt, S&W, Ruger, Kel-Tec and last but not least Hi-point to name a few?


----------



## denner

Greybeard said:


> I have absolutely no numbers but I would guess Glock for LE.


In the US, I agree.


----------



## PT111Pro

denner said:


> Are you forgetting about Colt, S&W, Ruger, Kel-Tec and last but not least Hi-point to name a few?


If that would be a decent and reliable gun for LEO and for the Military and not only a weapon for the civilian marked for self defense, why does than the US LEO and Militarily support Manufacturers from other countries? Would they be ashamed to wear a S&W, Colt......?
I mean the Italians wearing proudly their Beretta, The Austrians their Glock or Steyr, France and Belgum their FN, the Germans wearing HK, SIG and Walther, the Turks their Zigana, Sarsilmaz, Israel DE Jericho, In Spain Astra, Sweden Husquarna even Finland has their own Lathi............... Everyone shows off with their own products and show that they can trust the engineers and workers of their own country. 
Would the US not do the same if they would have any decent product to show?
It's like Australia. They have weapon manufacturers too, b ut no one outside the Kangaroo Continent know that, because they wearing HK and Sig.

It would be like the US-President would ride around in a Mercedes Benz, BMW or a Russian Zil and the Air-Force 1 get replaced by a Airbus or a Tupolev.


----------



## desertman

PT111Pro:


> Would the US not do the same if they would have any decent product to show?


The military and law enforcement have used Colt and Smith & Wesson products for decades until Glocks came along and the military started using Berettas. In the case of Glocks I can only guess that it's because it's a better mousetrap. At the time striker fired semi auto pistols were not that common. They are more accurate because of their trigger pull than the old double action revolvers and hold more rounds. So the transition was made then to Glocks as they were the only kid on the block. My guess and it's only a guess is that had any of the American manufacturers come up with that design law enforcement agencies would have used them instead. The military was looking for a high capacity DA/SA semi auto .9mm to replace the 1911 .45ACP. They wanted a high capacity pistol in a caliber that was common throughout the world. The Beretta M9 pistol was a tried and true design that met their needs.



> The M9 won a competition in the 1980s to replace the M1911A1 as the primary sidearm of the U.S. military, beating many other contenders, and only narrowly defeating the SIG P226 for cost reasons.[1] It officially entered service in 1990.[2] Some other models have been adopted to a lesser extent, namely the M11 pistol, and other models remain in use in certain niches.
> 
> In the 1970s every branch of the U.S. Armed Forces except the U.S. Air Force carried the .45 ACP M1911 pistol. USAF opted to use .38 special revolvers, which were also carried by some criminal investigation/military police organizations, USAF strategic missile (ICBM) officer crews, and by military flight crewmembers across all the services when serving in combat zones or when engaged in nuclear weapons duties. ---wikiepedia


It is my opinion and it's only an opinion, that US firearms manufacturers dropped the ball in both of these cases. In not designing a pistol that would best suit those needs. The military is now looking to replace the Beretta. The question is; will US manufacturers step up to the plate?


----------



## PT111Pro

I'm just kidding. I believe that the US has enough smart people that can create and build a weapon that meets the needs of a modern LE and military.
Well I don't know if the US manufacturer just have overslept that Glock design. Well not really, because they never had impressed the engineers, but very much so the GI-Joe and the Sheriff from Willspoint. I remember that many thought that this Glock design will not last, many of the engineers from Glockmeister didn't really believe that it could be a lasting concept. 
But it was taken by Joe and now every Gun manufacturer try to jump on that cheap design but good selling product. If only some of the manufacturers would realize that Glock already build a Glock and they therefore don't need to build one for them. 

Will see what the US LE and Military comes up with. If this time a american company wins or if we equip our soldiers now with Turkish Sarsilmaz?


----------



## TAPnRACK

Glock is so thoroughly entrenched in the LE community that it won't change anytime soon. Some 60% of LE agencies (in the US) are using Glocks. The cost to switch to another platform is too much for most departments to handle. New guns, holsters, mag holders and additional training for both officers and Dept armorers. Glock came in cheap and their armorer course is affordable compared to a Sig class (one example). The other consideration is the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Glocks work as well as any other gun out there... so coming up with a good excuse to switch, incurring additional costs mentioned, is difficult at best. Glock aggressively went after the LE market while other manufacturers rested on their butts relying on their heritage to carry them into the future. Most looked at "plastic" striker fired guns as a novelty or fad... now they are paying the price by losing a huge chunk of the market.

The fact that LE was carrying Glock more and more helped sales in the civilian firearms community... which often looks at what LE or Military agencies/branches are carrying as a bar to judge quality and reliability. 

Making the Glock affordable is a wonderful marketing strategy by Glock... it was hard to pass up on Glock for most agencies. How many times has someone mentioned in a forum... "Well, so & so are using Glocks" or in the case of the Sig P226 "Navy Seals use em'"... same goes with caliber, "The FBI uses it, it must be the best!". Seems whatever is popular with Government agencies is popular in the civilian market.

Giving huge discounts to LE to get them in circulation has paid dividends for Glock in the long run. I've been approached several time and asked what i'm carrying... only to hear them turn to their buddy and say "See, they use Glocks cuz they're the best". 

Over the last few years we've watched every manufacturer chase the crown for the striker fired market... but even if a manufacturer came out with a handgun that was as good or better than Glock... the costs to switch would be hard to justify.... and the country of origin dosen't make additional costs any easier to swallow.


----------



## PT111Pro

> TAPaRack
> Most looked at "plastic" striker fired guns as a novelty or fad... now they are paying the price by losing a huge chunk of the market.


Well they didn't really impress the engineers. No one believed they can make that on the long run. True the Glock is a low end gun that works for that what it was designed. People buy Glock because it is in the prize range that some can squeeze out of Grandma or Grandpas savings account. If you go in the price market above 600 Dollar Glock looses all the time. 
Glock learned. If the people buy a total outdated and overpriced gun like the PPK in a very small caliber, only because in a movie the 007 has it, what about equipping law enforcement with cheap Glock products. The sells after that will be automatically astronomical regardless of the Product. The most of the people go with the main stream, in the US I learned it's called "running with the ball". And Glock is just in that prize range that many can squeeze Granny's savings account.
It worked and many Manufacturer try to get their share out of that cake. Even HK now jumps on it, but they sell their Glock VP9 in a HK prize range.

Private opinion off.


----------



## CW

Now if we were to take a poll of what make is most popular with criminals...... I fear Beretta's standing might be higher..... er, wait, that doesn't seem right......


----------



## VAMarine

CW said:


> Now if we were to take a poll of what make is most popular with criminals...... I fear Beretta's standing might be higher..... er, wait, that doesn't seem right......


.Hi Point.


----------



## CW

Hi point? Ugg......

I was going to say, Stolen.


----------



## bluedog46

I would say GLock, but a friend once told me cz is actually up there with glock and maybe even more popular. Since I have never been out of the country I dont know.


----------



## OldManMontgomery

*I respectfully object to the question.*

The Title Question assumes a fact not in evidence.

The fact NOT in evidence is that 'the pros', Law Enforcement and Military, select sidearms on the basis of some significant criteria related to self-defense or the like. I submit that basic idea is incorrect.

In the first place, a departmental or agency 'issue' firearm (pistol, rifle, sub-machinegun, machinegun, sniper rifle or yet-to-be-announced) is NOT selected by the people who will be actually using the device. Issue firearms are selected by either an appointed official or an appointed committee of the agency. The appointed entity is normally appointed directly or indirectly by the Chief or Director of the agency. One notes the appointed entity or members of such entity are never known to disagree with the Chief or Director and generally agree with all opinions and beliefs of said Chief or Director. Sometimes - depending on size of agency - the Chief 'appoints' himself or herself. One also notes a direct and comprehensive knowledge of the design, function or use of the item in question is rarely a criteria for inclusion in the selection process.

Secondly, criteria for weapons (and automobiles, radios, telephones, office equipment, uniforms, and office supplies) is primarily based on political concerns. Consider the selection of the U. S. Armed Forces pistol in 1985. The political affiliations of the U. S. Government required the adoption of a pistol in caliber 9x19 NATO. (We can argue the pros and cons of the round, but they have NOTHING to do with 'selection'.)

During the first term of the current Administration, when the U. S. government had a sizable investment of a particular automobile manufacturer, all the vehicles purchased under general purchase was from that particular automobile company.

The recent FBI announcement of adopting a 9mm pistol as the issue sidearm for the Bureau essentially boils down to this: It is the pistol which will allow the greatest number of new hires - based on politically correct 'inclusion' guidelines which over rule competence as a criteria - to qualify.

A secondary consideration is budgetary. The actual amount doesn't really matter, as the money expended comes from taxpayers. However, every dollar spent on firearms deletes a dollar from other budget items. (This occurs when the agency decides how much money is "needed" (based on the opinion of the Director) for 'firearms and training' and how much is "needed" (same criteria) for 'office refurbishment' or 'public relations'. It never shows up as 'juggling the books' later, when all the money in the 'firearms and training' budget isn't spent and transferred to some other use.

A secondary budgetary consideration is 'who gets the contract?' I refer to the aforementioned vehicle purchase from Government Motors. It is never so crass as getting direct kickbacks from manufacturers, but one does remember the Federal Government buying Smith & Wesson arms AFTER Smith & Wesson started manufacturing arms with 'locks' after the Clinton Administration demanded such a change.

All this is to say, I don't give a hoot about the most popular firearm (or car, radio or underwear) used by various agencies. They don't select such things for the same reasons as I.

Probably not you either, gentle reader.


----------



## Bisley

When the US military adopted the AR-15, the military put it through rigorous testing, which it passed with flying colors. The Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara, a former Ford Motor Co. executive known for cost-cutting (and the Edsel), eliminated the chrome lined parts, and the cleaning kits, before issuing them to combat soldiers in a tropical environment. It took a number of fatal mishaps to get this modified, and returning the AR-15 to the reliability that it had achieved during the trials.

Politics have always dictated what weapons are adopted by governments, sometimes with dangerous results, sometimes not.


----------



## M4Eagle

Possibly a little dose of reality here....LE pistol selection and to a large degree military choices have been based a lot on the best deal they can get from the major gun industry players and/or marketing savvy n political greasing considerations.
In those areas Glock has been the most adept. But that does not speak to overall quality. I think Glock would have a hard time straight up for example besting the performance of Sig P 320 or P226 or other top performers.


----------



## aarondhgraham

*CZ used to advertise they were the one most used by military,,,*

CZ used to advertise they were the one most used by military,,,
But you had to count a lot of Eastern European Communist Block countries.

I have no idea if this was true,,,
But it was their claim.

Aarond

.


----------



## Skipper

Police will be Glock
Military Baretta and now FNH


----------



## SEAN680

We carry H&K P30s. But most US police agencies carry Glocks


----------



## Wyoming_1977

Pretty sure all I've seen on the LEOs I've interacted with here in central Iowa have been Glocks. Can't be 100% sure because I haven't done a poll, but when I've looked, and I always look, I've seen a Glock in the holster.


----------



## bluedog46

What kind of glock trigger pulls do most Leo's have? My understanding is NY have like an 11 lb trigger pull. They come with a 5.5 for a reason.


----------



## TAPnRACK

Our older Glock's had a heavier pull (8-10lbs?), now our new Gen4's have a 5-5.5 lb trigger pull. Big improvement on scores during qual.


----------



## Cannon

I went with other and the other I'm talking about is CZ-75B I have a CZ-75B and its a full size 9mm handgun used by more governments, ... police, and security forces worldwide than any other pistol. And that fact cannot be argued.


----------



## bluedog46

TAPnRACK said:


> Our older Glock's had a heavier pull (8-10lbs?), now our new Gen4's have a 5-5.5 lb trigger pull. Big improvement on scores during qual.


I wonder if with all this black lives matter crap if they will make the guns heavy pulls again? I never got why they had the heavy pulls? there is a misnomer that many cops are bad shots. I tell people its not they are bad shots it is heavier trigger pulls combined with the stress they are under when they have to shoot.


----------

