# Such a thing as sudden-onset 1911 fever?



## RightTurnClyde (Oct 24, 2007)

I think something is wrong with me. I only just bought my first handgun 4 months ago. A Smith M&P9. With my job and family commitments, I rarely get a hall-pass to go to the range and shoot it. And yet... Suddenly I really want to get a 1911 as well. I've never even shot one before. Is this a disease? Is there any known cure/treatment? (Besides purchase.)


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm sorry but yes. You have only one recourse. You have to get our hands on a 1911..then repeat. I am powerless over 1911's and my lie has become unmanageable..until I get lust one 1911 that is..yeah..one will do it..just one:smt082


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

RightTurnClyde said:


> Is there any known cure/treatment? (Besides purchase.)


Sure. Just go to any big shooting school. Watch as 80% (or more) of the 1911s in the class malfunction. Meanwhile, observe as the Glocks, SIGs, XDs, HKs and Berettas just perk right along.

It worked for me. :mrgreen:


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

The last class I took (last year), was about half Glocks, half 1911s. (Interesting - no other brands. No Berettas, no SIGs, etc. Just Glocks and 1911s.) There were only two malfunctions. A $3000 1911 snapped the locking lugs off the barrel, totally jamming the gun -- with a round in the chamber. Took a really big hammer to get it apart.

The other malfunction was a Glock .40 failure to eject, where the empty got fed back into the chamber _backwards._ Required a rod down the barrel to clear it. That was the first one of those I have witnessed, but the second one I know of. The first one was a friend of mine, LEO who had it happen in a gunfight. He took two .44 Mags through the torso while he was trying to clear the unclearable jam. Complete recovery. He's back on duty -- carrying a 1911.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I suspect that the 1911s in more advanced classes will run better than those found in basic classes, just because of the type of shooter who attends advanced training. Every "Level One" course I've been to - Mas Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, Front Sight - has been replete with puking 1911s. The modern guns just worked much better. YMMV, as *milquetoast's* clearly does.

But of course, just about _every_ (male) shooter considers himself "advanced." :mrgreen:


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Well..I'll not knock a Glock without being a liar but I don't see near the 1911 failures I hear people talking about. most every failure I've ever seen with a 191 is due to the user not being all that much in the know about a 1911. Or they try the lets send 1,000 rounds through it and forget about as much as a bore snake. While t is true that some 1911's can get picky about heir ammo that is also a really easy thing to work around with a little polishing.That o get a Para with a ramped barrel and forget abut all the issues. 

It's is totally true that a Glock will feed damn near anything put through it and do it really well.But a Glock s not or everyone just a a 1911 is not. I own both and I can say with no uncertainty that I would puck up any of my 1911's and head out and feel totally confident that they will perform as needed. If I thought I needed to be more sure I guess I could pass them both and pick up my Sig..hahahahaa!!

Seriously though, I think it just comes down t what a person likes. I do advise anyone that is going to carry 1911 get really up close and personal with it. Know what kid f ammo it likes as to defense loads and know how to properly break down their weapon if need be and be able to clean it, and I man really clean it. 

Pistols like a Glock are not built near as tight as say a high end 1911 so there is more room in there for stuff to move around. That is why an AK 47 works better than most other rifles of their type. There's a ton of room in there for dirt etc. Also with the old Colt 1911's. Pick one up and shake it. They will rattle pretty loud....Same reason. The AK like the old Colt is not as accurate as an AR or a 1911 most times. But both these weapons were designed to be more accurate so they are built tighter. More3 can go wrong. I'm sure any soldier that uses a weapon is taught to be abler to clean and maintain their weapon so that those "bad things" are less likely to happen.

A 1911 is a great pistol and will serve you well. But you are not going to spit 1200 rounds down range and toss in in a box and say I'll take care of that mess later..maybe in another 1,000 rounds.:smt082


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## RightTurnClyde (Oct 24, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> Sure. Just go to any big shooting school. Watch as 80% (or more) of the 1911s in the class malfunction. Meanwhile, observe as the Glocks, SIGs, XDs, HKs and Berettas just perk right along.
> 
> It worked for me. :mrgreen:


This then begs the following question: Are there any well-regarded 1911's that have polymer frames and are maybe built a little looser to avoid the malfunctions that might be common with other "regular" 1911's? Just curious. I really like the 1911 shape.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Well I have many 1911s rangeing in from 1916 to present day all work just fine. Yes I do maintain them, but all tools have to be taken care of. To lazy to maintain then you aren't worthy of it, from gun to cars to any tool.


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## wiseguy (Feb 24, 2007)

Can't go wrong with the prancing pony :smt1099 Colt all the way


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## Desperado-OPs (Feb 17, 2008)

I don't know if this helps you or not but Kimber has a polymer framed 1911. And I also don't know what the reviews are. Here is a link http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ten/


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## lovain1932 (Feb 14, 2008)

Hey I'm a new 1911 owner that had problems with my springer you guys are making me second guess my choice since I have had problems already


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

RightTurnClyde said:


> This then begs the following question: Are there any well-regarded 1911's that have polymer frames and are maybe built a little looser to avoid the malfunctions that might be common with other "regular" 1911's? Just curious. I really like the 1911 shape.


I don't know that poly 1911s are any more reliable than their metal-framed cousins. The 1911 is just an old design, and is hit-and-miss with reliability. It's not as if we haven't learned anything about what makes pistols reliable in the last century. Now we have guns that feed in straighter lines, have ramped barrels, don't need perfectly hand-tuned extractors, have better magazine designs, etc.

I realize that some people have very reliable 1911s. The Commander I carried for many years was reliable, though I had to spend a lot more time on maintenance than I do on my Glocks. But I have seen way too many 1911s choke in matches and classes - where guns get shot hard and not babied - to think it is as reliable as modern designs.

The 1911 is the easiest service pistol to shoot fast and well, with the possible exception of the HKP7. It has a potentially great trigger, low bore axis, and a comfortable grip. But all that is, in my view, less important (in a defense gun) than total reliability. I like the 1911 design and respect it deeply, but no longer choose it for anything serious.

If the OP is talking about a range and fun gun, I say go for the 1911 by all means. But most people who have to ask advice on choosing guns should choose something other than the 1911 for defense.


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## AZ Outlaws (Dec 3, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> Sure. Just go to any big shooting school. Watch as 80% (or more) of the 1911s in the class malfunction. Meanwhile, observe as the Glocks, SIGs, XDs, HKs and Berettas just perk right along.
> 
> It worked for me. :mrgreen:


I think your being over critical and are painting a pretty bleak picture of 1911's. I've put 500 rounds on my Springfield 1911 Loaded right out of the box... not one malfunction. Don't you think you're being overly harsh? From what I've been reading, most problems with 1911's have been from people who've been tinkering with their pistol....



Mike Barham said:


> But most people who have to ask advice on choosing guns should choose something other than the 1911 for defense.


I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest with you, but the short time I've been on this forum, I have quickly come to see that you seem to be the resident expert who favors 9mm's above all else and has knowledge on just about everything related to guns. That can be good, however, aren't you being a little harsh with your statement above? In my book, asking questions, seeking advice and getting opinions has always been a good thing. You of all people who dispenses a lot of comments and passes out advice on this board, should know that. How else do people learn if not asking questions and getting advice?

If I misunderstood your statement or took it out of context, I apologize....


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

That was my (perhaps impolitic) way of saying that 1911s are basically guns for experienced shooters.

I do prefer 9mm Glocks, but I carried and shot a 1911 .45ACP for about 17 years before I switched, so I'm pretty conversant with 1911s. This includes the many things that can go wrong with them, and the higher level of maintenance they demand compared to more modern pistols.

As I wrote, the 1911 is a good design that, in its modern incarnations (with good sights, beavertail grip safety and decent trigger) is very easy to shoot well. However, in the matches I've shot, the ranges where I've fired, and the classes I've attended, it is also the pistol that is most likely to malfunction.

I am very pleased your Springfield runs well. I recently gave my father a Springfield 1911 as a retirement gift. But one gun is a very small sample size. My 2004 trip to Front Sight is a case in point - of the six 1911s on the line, five malfunctioned, and two of them malfunctioned frequently enough to impede the students' learning. Of the Glocks, SIGs, one Beretta and one CZ that made up the rest of the class, _none malfunctioned even once_.

I'm not saying reliable 1911s don't exist. Lots of guys on the forum - *Baldy*, *milquetoast*, forum owner *js*, and others - have them, too. There was the one in six at my Front Sight course that worked great. My old Commander ran just fine as long as I used good magazines.

But I stand by my general statement. If you have to ask what gun to buy, it's probably best if you don't buy a 1911. It's a gun best used by shooters with a deeper understanding of pistols than that possessed by a novice.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

AZ Outlaws said:


> I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest with you...you seem to be the resident expert who favors 9mm's above all else


And as far as being an "expert"...no way. I'm a serious student at best. I have talked to real experts and seen them shoot - and I'm certainly no expert.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

I think 1911's are good weapons. I think Glocks (and other new technology guns) are good weapons. They are totaly different types of guns. The 1911 is just as good (in my humble opinion) as ANY other gun if it is built, maintained and shot correctly. I would never advise anyone to NOT get a particular handgun based on only my experiences. My experiences are only from the military, and hunting and shooting for uh............about 49 years (yeah, I started when I was about 2 :smt082....not really). But I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express (and of course, I cant' remember when!). I feel strongly there are NO EXPERTS on this fourm (in my humble opinion). :watching:


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## AZ Outlaws (Dec 3, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> And as far as being an "expert"...no way. I'm a serious student at best. I have talked to real experts and seen them shoot - and I'm certainly no expert.


That puts you at the head of the class with a lot more knowledge than most folks here, including myself. That makes you an expert in my book, at least on this forum.... :smt1099


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

AZ Outlaws said:


> That puts you at the head of the class with a lot more knowledge than most folks here, including myself. That makes you an expert in my book, at least on this forum.... :smt1099


Experience does not necessarily translate to knowledge. Sometimes is does and sometimes it does not. Too often, the little guy in my head says, "...what in the hell did you do that for.....you should know better........don't you remember what happened last time.....etc." :anim_lol:


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## kenn (Dec 13, 2007)

*So for the money?*

If reliability is going to be an issue with 1911's then would it make more sense to get an inexpensive 1911, like a Taurus, than a Les Baer, STI, etc??? If they are gonna jam anyway, might as well save the money. Or no?

Is it mainly a "1911's need alot of maintenance" and Glocks/Brt/XD's do not issue. or is it a "hold it this way, and it should not jam" issue?

I have thought about getting one for the fun of it, and I have been lucky with inexpensive guns so far (to be fair though, I strip and clean each one after each range visit, whether it be 20 rounds or 200 rounds).


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Some say you generally get what you pay for, although that's not always the case. If it is a reliability issue, I don't think I would buy a less expensive product. If you stay with the major manufacturers, Colt, Smith & Wesson, Kimber, Springfield, Para Ordnance, etc. (the order I put them in was random and I'm sure I've left some out) the pistol stands a very good chance of being reliable, accuracte, and fun if you maintain them properly. Just my $.02 worth.:mrgreen:


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I cured my 1911-itis with enough rounds through my XDs... Took some therapy, a few sessions at the store, fondling all of them, and then more XD shooting...

Then I wanted a SA 1911A1 Longslide (6"), but found out it's a bit finicky, and UNAVAILABLE! The fever receeded...

NOW... those SOBs at Para go and build the 2008 Para SuperHog... with a 6" barrel... Damn it... the fever is starting again...









Just won't go away...

JW


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

kenn said:


> If reliability is going to be an issue with 1911's then would it make more sense to get an inexpensive 1911, like a Taurus, than a Les Baer, STI, etc??? If they are gonna jam anyway, might as well save the money. Or no?


No, the better-grade 1911s seem to run better than the cheap ones, as a general rule. You see lots of posts on various forums about how RIAs and Tauri and such work fine, but often that's because the shooters who buy those guns aren't the guys who go out and shoot 1000 rounds on a single Saturday, and aren't usually the guys who take courses at Thunder Ranch and really run the guns hard. Not to say there aren't lower-tier 1911s that work - there are - but they aren't as common as the higher-end guns.

In the moderate-price guns, the S&W 1911s seem like the most trouble-free. I've seen Wilsons and Baers, at the higher end, that worked great. Not much experience with the STI guns.



> Is it mainly a "1911's need alot of maintenance" and Glocks/Brt/XD's do not issue. or is it a "hold it this way, and it should not jam" issue?


Steel-framed 1911s are _less_ prone to limp-wrist malfunctions than the modern poly guns, actually. But they do seem to require more frequent cleaning than modern pistols.



> I have thought about getting one for the fun of it, and I have been lucky with inexpensive guns so far (to be fair though, I strip and clean each one after each range visit, whether it be 20 rounds or 200 rounds).


Glocks allow me the luxury of a very lazy cleaning regimen of twice a year. :mrgreen:


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

It's not a fever, it clarity. 1911s are by far my fave.
They do not run as easily or as well as a Glock. I have owned several of both. I had to send a Kimber back to NY three times. I finally sold it when it had issues during a night shoot at Front Sight. I had to change to my backup gun.
I have a Colt Combat Commander. I had some expensive work done to it by Robar(previous posts list the work). It still hiccups. My Glock ran worry free.
I stick with it as I am stubborn and I shoot the 1911 very well.


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## Living in the war zone (Mar 4, 2008)

Theres also an onset of accessories for the 1911 fever. Its a symptom I have one 1911 and 5 sets of grips for it. I guess admitting there is a problem is the first step.


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## KansKd (Jan 24, 2008)

After the fever, then its the disease and with the disease you need a larger gun case.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

KansKd said:


> After the fever, then its the disease and with the disease you need a larger gun case.


hahahahaaaa! I am up to eight 1911's..I think one more will do it..Yeah..One more and I'm done:anim_lol:

Simple fact of the matter is I have the best time shooting when I have a 1911 in my hand. I have tried torturing one for a while and it as still working as it should without anymore than a bore snake run through it every 100 or so rounds. I know that's not any real test but I just wanted to see if it would run OK with a bunch of stuff sent through it.

Is the 1911 better than anything else...For me yes...No question. I have a 226 Sig and have had a dozen Glocks and they are great, really reliable. I Just think a 1911 works best for me.

My oldest 1911 is an old Mil-Spec that I have thousands of rounds through it. I have made some changes to it over the years but it still has the same barrel it always had and still groups great. I think the last failure I had was because I was using some reloads a friend made and they were too weak for my 24# recoil spring. I put an 18# in and it was fine..lol..Yeah..I keep stuff like that in my bag.:watching:


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