# SW Victory model help



## Tornik550 (Jun 29, 2018)

I recently obtained what I believe is a SW Victory model lend lease. The barrel states is uses a .38 SW cartridge. I purchased some PPU .38 SW shells and they will not fit into the cylinder. It is my understanding that 38 sw won’t fit into a 38 special gun however the barrel clearly states it is a 38sw. It seems like the case is just too wide to fit into the cylinder. 

I know very little about revolvers. Clearly something isn’t right. I know absolutely nothing about the history of this gun. I believe it has been reblued and the grips were not original. 

Gun info-
Serial V293419
Barrel serial number matches
No serial number on the cylinder 
Lanyard hole filled
Marking on frame- US Property GHD
Marking on left side barrel 38 S&W CTG 
Marking on r side of barrel SMITH & WESSON


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## Tornik550 (Jun 29, 2018)

Oops. Forgot to ask my question- anyone have any ideas of why the case won’t fit into the cylinder? Also, any General info about the gun would be greatly appreaciate.


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## Tornik550 (Jun 29, 2018)

I had never examined the gun very closely til now. I just found there is a very faint hand etched area that says RCAF 7B/246. Interesting. It looks like our friends up north must have had this gun. 

Also- I am pretty sure that the cylinder is just the incorrect cylinder. When I look closely, it appears that the bluing on the cylinder is different than the rest of the gun.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

"US Property" marked .38 revolvers are for the .38 Special cartridge, I believe. But they would be marked ".38 Special."
British "broad-arrow" marked, US-made .38 revolvers (or "0.380") are for .38 S&W, which is both fatter and weaker.

I suggest that you may have a US-made, lend-lease revolver which was intended for the British Commonwealth and the .38 S&W cartridge, but which somehow stayed in North America. Then, later, someone fitted it with a .38 Special cylinder. I've heard of this kind of thing before.

I am not sure that the bore and rifling for the .38 S&W is correct for the .38 Special. I think that the .38 S&W bore might be a little larger in diameter than that for the .38 Special.

In any case, the S&W pistol is probably strong enough to be safe with .38 Special loads...BUT you should have a reputable gunsmith verify that before ever shooting it.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Yes, I'd guess 38 special as well, but have a gunsmith use a go/no go tool on it to be sure. That 38 S&W case is a tad larger and tapered differently. I use to try to run them through carbide dies in attempt to make super light loads for 9mm bullets in that brass for PPC. Didn't work well. Required too much brass removal and dropping to the smaller diameter bullet caused inaccuracy and keyholing. I was a dumb kid at the time. I'd just found a really cheap supply of 90 grain 9mm bullets and was trying to get them in my revolvers for practice. I went back to 147 grn wadcutters.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

The .38 S&W Short will fit into a .38 Special revolver's cylinder. I just tried it in my Model 642. Steve in post #4 is indeed correct regarding the larger diameter bullet. If it were me the only ammo that I would fire out of that gun is the ammo that it was designed to fire. As the cylinder and barrel are bored to accept only that type of ammo. I believe the correct ammo for your revolver is the .38 Short. From the photo you supplied those PPU .38 SW shells are different than the .38 Short. You will note that the cartridge case heads are different from the photo I supplied. The bullet on the .38 Short is the same diameter as the case itself. Whereas the case on the PPU shells are slightly larger. That's why they do not fit in the cylinder of your gun. Just out of curiosity I looked up .38 S&W ammo that is for sale they all appear to be identical to those PPU shells. Good luck finding ammo for that gun. At any rate hopefully this will help you out and you will not buy the wrong type of ammo even if it is labeled as .38 S&W. I think I solved the mystery?


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

I have a regular 38 S&W top break revolver along with a box of Winchester , 38 Smith & Wesson , 145 gr. RN lead bullets . These I shoot in the 38 S&W top break revolver. They chamber and eject just fine. Nowhere on the box is the word "short" .
I tried chambering the 38 S&W rounds in two different 38 special revolvers , A S&W J-frame and a S&W K-frame , the 38 S&W case body is too large to slide into any of the chambers...at best 3/16" will enter then go no further. Same results with a Ruger 357 magnum revolver. If 38 S&W rounds wont chamber I would bet money it's been converted to 38 special with a new cylinder...which is the proper way to convert one. See if a 38 Special will chamber !
Simply reaming out the 38 S&W cylinder deeper to accept the 38 Special leaves excess space...the brass could/would split upon firing. Lots were converted cheaply like this and dumped on the market.
Yours seems to have been converted correctly, new 38 Special cylinder, lanyard hole plugged and the front sight has been modified for 38 Special ammo.
For a shooter you did OK on this one.
Gary


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

gwpercle said:


> I have a regular 38 S&W top break revolver along with a box of Winchester , 38 Smith & Wesson , 145 gr. RN lead bullets . These I shoot in the 38 S&W top break revolver. They chamber and eject just fine. * Nowhere on the box is the word "short" *.
> I tried chambering the 38 S&W rounds in two different 38 special revolvers , A S&W J-frame and a S&W K-frame , the 38 S&W case body is too large to slide into any of the chambers...at best 3/16" will enter then go no further. Same results with a Ruger 357 magnum revolver. If 38 S&W rounds wont chamber I would bet money it's been converted to 38 special with a new cylinder...which is the proper way to convert one. See if a 38 Special will chamber !
> Simply reaming out the 38 S&W cylinder deeper to accept the 38 Special leaves excess space...the brass could/would split upon firing. Lots were converted cheaply like this and dumped on the market.
> Yours seems to have been converted correctly, new 38 Special cylinder, lanyard hole plugged and the front sight has been modified for 38 Special ammo.
> ...


I have a handful of loose rounds and .38 Short is stamped into the back of the case head.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

The 38 Short is not the same cartridge as the 38 S&W. They are dimensionally different .

There is a 38 Short and a 38 Long . Colt came out with them originally as ammo to be used in their converted cap and ball revolvers . The 38 Short Colt led to the 38 Long Colt which led to the 38 Special ( then the 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum got even longer) The 38 Short and 38 Long case and bullet diameters ,all being the same, can be chambered and fired in a 38 Special revolver . I wont even get into the 38 AMU and all the many other 38 cartridges that have come and gone over the years.

The case diameter of the 38 S&W is larger than the 38 Short , 38 Long and 38 Special and thus the 38 S&W will not chamber in any of those revolvers . 


The only problem with the OP's using 38 Short Colt or Long Colt , which you can safely do (a 38 Special revolver can safely use 38 Short Colt , 38 Long Colt and 38 Special) is finding the ammo . The stuff is far from common .

I hope his has been properly converted (new cylinder) to 38 Special that will solve ammo availability problems of the rest. Usually any store that sells ammo is going to have 38 Special.

Gary


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Definitive Information:*

The .38 S&W uses a bullet of 0.359" diameter.
The .38 Special uses a bullet of 0.357" diameter.

Firing a 0.357" bullet through a 0.359" bore is safe, and probably will exhibit no loss of inherent accuracy.

The .38 S&W's case has the same outside diameter at its mouth as its bullet. It uses what is generally called a "heeled bullet." That is, the heel end of the bullet is smaller in diameter than the section of it which rests within the pistol's rifling. The case is slightly tapered, too.

The .38 Special's case is larger in diameter at its mouth than is its bullet. The major diameter of its bullet fits within the case. I believe that the .38 Special case is straight-walled, not tapered.

If a pistol chambered for .38 S&W is converted to .38 Special by merely lengthening its chambers, the .38 S&W case will still chamber properly in the converted pistol's cylinder. This, than, is a good test to find out whether or not the pistol has been correctly converted.

Since the .38 S&W case is tapered, a .38 Special case within a merely-rechambered converted cylinder would experience excessive chamber space, and therefore could rupture, to the detriment of both the pistol and its user.


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