# Mall of America and CCW



## cmaki413

So yesterday, I figured out why I truly can't believe that places like the Mall of America decide to not let carriers bring their guns into the mall. 

I was walking around yesterday, and out of nowhere, about 20 thugs come up to two other "thugs" and start threatening them. Everybody cleared away out of fear there would be a fight, and there was. While one of the two guys got away, two of the guys in the big posse decided to start throwing punches at the one guy, who they had tripped and was laying on the ground. After about 30 seconds a mall security guard runs up screaming for them to stop and that he's going to spray them with mace. The main fighters all had ran away, throwing people out of their way as they ran from the cop. 

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but it seems liek this is a common occurrence out there, which is a little frightening. I'd like to know I can do something about it if I'm ever targeted for some reason. But even the security guard had just a canister of pepper spray, and the guy wasn't phased by it, and neither were the people that actually ran. He was within 10 ft. of the fighters, and they just ran. You'd think maybe if he at least had a taser or a real gun like a cop, they might actually be able to do something other than arrest a guy who has his face punched and kicked a bunch. 

I was only about 30 feet away when it started, and had they come any closer to me, or towards me, I would've felt a little underhanded vs. about 5 guys who were pretty angry. Sure they don't want people like those guys bringing guns into the mall, but the signs wouldn't stop them, it just stops the people that could prevent the violence.


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## VasSigmeister

You make good points, and I agree 100% it's people like that whom we need defense against, and a sign that says "don't do this" is NOT going to stop one of these thugs...


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## dosborn

I guess I will never get to go to Mall of America. Unless they change the :smt078policy.


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## cmaki413

It just amazed me how little pepper spray or a baton did to phase them, they just ran/walked away, and even right past him because they weren't intimidated. it's ridiculous.


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## MLB

I think the big concern is that in a situation like you described, instead of someone getting a beating and a few macings, the Mall of America will have a dead body to deal with. Seems to me that they'd rather you take the beating.

On the other hand, should you shoot an unarmed man, you're in for some legal trouble. Even if you're justified when confronted with many aggressors, consider the world of hassle you are in for when you present a firearm. If you don't feel that your life is in danger, you should not even consider a handgun as part of the solution.


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## redpenguin01

I live 5 minutes away from the Mall of America.. To be honest with you, that place is so damn crowded all the time with kids and everything... I don't know how you would be able to get a shot off without risking the life of another individual. You might think it's bad policy.. but I don't know too many malls around here that allow guns on their property. I guess if you don't like it then don't shop there.


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## cougartex

WOW, scary story.


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## cmaki413

I wasn't taking it in the context of I would have drawn, but even that the guards don't have guns, especially with it being such a terrorist target. I understand not wanting the dead bodies part, but from the sounds of how often stuff occurs and how they have no fear of security, it seems as though somethings not working.


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## dondavis3

It can happen any time - any where.

:smt1099


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## Josser

Do they check you for guns when you come in the Mall of America? Otherwise how would they know if you had one or not? I don't think would be illegal to carry there even with the posted signs as long as you had your carry license but I don't know the Minn state laws.


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## bruce333

Josser said:


> Do they check you for guns when you come in the Mall of America? Otherwise how would they know if you had one or not? I don't think would be illegal to carry there even with the posted signs as long as you had your carry license *but I don't know the Minn state laws*.


since you don't know the law, then it isn't a good idea to suggest doing something that might be illegal...and I think it is illegal in MN if the property is posted...


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## Josser

bruce333 said:


> since you don't know the law, then it isn't a good idea to suggest doing something that might be illegal...and I think it is illegal in MN if the property is posted...


Thanks Bruce, I don't live in Mn anyway and don't intend to. Live in Florida. Our laws are different here.


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## redpenguin01

bruce333 said:


> since you don't know the law, then it isn't a good idea to suggest doing something that might be illegal...and I think it is illegal in MN if the property is posted...


Yeah, here in Minnesota even if they don't post a sign and someone asks you to leave... you can't ask any questions.. you have to leave on the spot or else they can charge you. I can understand some concerns people would have about not being able to bring a gun into the mall, but at the same time we should respect the wishes of the property owner. With security being as tight as it is around the mall and the airport (which is literally about 2 minutes away) I don't think they are just walking around without some sort of known protocol in case of a terrorist attack or an incident with an armed gunman.


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## Theedge

Just stumbled across this forum and topic. Technically if you have a ccw permit you can carry in the mall, as landlords aren't able to ban guns. Also, even if they do have a sign, the owner of the property would have to ask you to leave. I was going to look up the details, but my computer is acting funky. Just took the carry class this weekend though, and people asked about the MOA.

I found the bit about landlords: "A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests".


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## Theedge

I found this on another site.



> Please note: There are a few subtle changes from the 2003 statute. The one probably most affecting existing carry permit holders is revision from the former "must post a sign AND verbally inform" to "must post a sign OR verbally inform".
> 
> In any event, a carry permit holder is not in violation unless at least one form of warning was provided AND someone in apparent authority has ordered you to leave the premises AND you refuse to leave when so ordered.
> 
> Please conduct yourself in a responsible manner. However, as before, even when lawfully posted (many aren't), the signs do not prohibit you from carrying your firearm into the premises until you are ordered to leave. If properly concealed, this should not become an issue.
> 
> Craig Brownell,
> 
> Chief Instructor, MN Pistol Class, LLC


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## dwkc64

Actually the law in Minnesota specifically prohibits a landlord from prohibiting a tenant and or the tenants guests from carrying on the property. This of course could be constructed in such a way that you can't get to a "store" without walking through the "MALL" property and thus the prohibition.

What this means, if I own commercial property and you lease that property, I cannot tell you no guns and I can't tell your guests no guns.


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## jdeere9750

dwkc64 said:


> Actually the law in Minnesota specifically prohibits a landlord from prohibiting a tenant and or the tenants guests from carrying on the property. This of course could be constructed in such a way that you can't get to a "store" without walking through the "MALL" property and thus the prohibition.
> 
> What this means, if I own commercial property and you lease that property, I cannot tell you no guns and I can't tell your guests no guns.


Just a heads up. This thread was started over 3 years ago.

Welcome to the forum!


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## johnr

and! the ninjas were on the third floor roof observing everything. had there actually been an emergency, they would appear.


just google "mall ninja" for the true story!

john


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