# A bump in the night... What do you reach for?



## JeffWard

From a sound sleep, you hear that "thump" downstairs... the tinkling sound of breaking glass on the entry rug... and the deadbolt goes ca-chunk...

Within steps of the bed, are:

1) The 12 Gauge Pump w/ buckshot in the closet,
2) The .45 ACP in the nightstand, or
3) The 9mm/38 Special in your pants pocket, hanging on the door.

Which one do you grab?


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## Todd

Any one of them and then wait quietly, crouched down at the top of the stairs to ambush the dumb ass that tried to make me and my family a statistic. The element of surprise will win this one, not the type of gun.

But if you need a definitive answer, the 12 gauge.


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## Bullseye

I would go with the 12 gauge, especially if it was a pump with an 18" barrel.


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## spacedoggy

Depends what room I'm in. Yes I have a different gun in each room which covers all three plus. Then I would think I was dreaming since we only have one story house so there must be a black hole in one of the rooms


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## Guest

Given that scenerio I would probably grab the 12 ga and the 45, wait at the top of the stairs and rack the slide while my wife calls 911. The criminals have to figure you hear them unless they are idiots so the intimidation of the slide might help change their mind. If not I'll use the 12 first and have the 45 nearby.

The reality of my house would be a Ruger P94 in 40 S&W with an extra mag.


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## TOF

None of the above.

I live in a single story ranch style built by me. The doors are rather sturdy and a protective 90 pound dog resides within. What I would hear is a low growel, my cue to grab the M&P40. If a tinkle of glass was heard I would wait a few seconds for body parts to enter the house after which blood curdling screams would emenate from the BG as my gentle puppy compared his taste to the Elk legs she got last Sunday. If the entry zone was big enough for a man and the BG got loose my puppy would follow as would I. When puppy tired of the play I would hold the BG at gunpoint till the Sheriff arrived (Wife would call him). We have one Deputy covering a rather large chunk of mountain so the BG might lose a little more blood while waiting.

I know how my puppy would react because an aquaintance decided to enter uninvited a few months back. He saw through the window I was talking on the phone and decided to enter without knocking. He assures me he will never ever do that again. i don't know if he shows off the scars on his butt or not but I do know he didn't close the door fast enough. :smt083

:smt1099


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## benzuncle

*Scare'em off or Popp'em*

If you want to scare the perp off, jackin' a round in a 12ga. is almost a sure thing unless the perp is totally stupid (as in Dumb Crook News).

If you are wanting to rid society of a burden, a wheel gun makes a lot of sense. You can keep it under your pillow and cock the hammer back without it being heard. If you sit up in bed and wait for them, they will typically come to you. This has happened to 2 people I know. One is a veteran. A veteran of growing up in Miami! Both waited for the perp to come down the hall and then...

By waiting in the dark with their eyes open, they said their eyes grew accustomed the seeing in the dark. Both also said if they had charged out of the bedroom immediately upon being startled awake, they doubt they could have seen well enough.


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## Baldy

I got a S&W .40 that stays under my pillow.


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## Mike Barham

I generally just have my Glock carry gun next to the bed. Ditto the wife on her side of the bed. Long gun of some type is in the walk-in closet - used to be an M4gery, but I sold that so I will default to the 870. I have a house alarm and a dog, which should buy me enough time to get to the big gun if necessary. If I feel a need to go roaming through the house, a pistol and a flashlight will do fine while the wife guards the sleeping area with the 870.


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## js

Just my .45... 

I've got a dog, so he'll let me know if someone is trying to get in way before I'll ever hear anything.


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## drummin man 627

Of your choices, the .45. I don't have one,so it would be my .357. Just as important, the cell phone. I live approx 2/10s of a mile from the Sheriffs Dept. If I called and mentioned I was armed and hearing an intruder, they'd be here A.S.A.P.


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## DevilsJohnson

I have a 45 in my nightstand and a 12 ga behind the bedroom door. I guess it would depend on how much time I would have to reach. I do think a 12 ga. make for a great home defense gun but I would rather have a 45 in my hand if the bad guys pick the wrong place to look for their dope money:smt023


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## JeffWard

My G/F's daughter's dog (which currenty resides with us... grrrrrr) is a massively huge, viscious, and intimidating "expensive-pure-bred" dauchshund... Yes, a weiner-dog. But the little bugger "screams", yelps and whines psychoticly when a stranger comes in the house... Usually stranger-number-one... her real owner.

I don't need an alarm system... There's no more piercing and annoying sound than a high-pitch yelping dauchshound... 

If he doesn't scare away any potential purp... or make him bleed to death from the ears... The 870 action will... And my G/F is very proficient now with my XD45.

For my sanity, the daughter (and her dog) are gone November 1st... I don't really care that the daughter moves out at this point... I'll rent an apartment for that damn dog...

Any of you who are religious, please pray for my sanity, and for accepting landlords, who take 21 year old "children" and their pets away...

JW


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## Wandering Man

JeffWard said:


> My G/F's daughter's dog (which currenty resides with us... grrrrrr) is a massively huge, viscious, and intimidating "expensive-pure-bred" dauchshund... Yes, a weiner-dog. But the little bugger "screams", yelps and whines psychoticly when a stranger comes in the house... Usually stranger-number-one... her real owner.
> 
> I don't need an alarm system... There's no more piercing and annoying sound than a high-pitch yelping dauchshound...
> 
> If he doesn't scare away any potential purp... or make him bleed to death from the ears... The 870 action will... And my G/F is very proficient now with my XD45.
> 
> For my sanity, the daughter (and her dog) are gone November 1st... I don't really care that the daughter moves out at this point... I'll rent an apartment for that damn dog...
> 
> Any of you who are religious, please pray for my sanity, and for accepting landlords, who take 21 year old "children" and their pets away...
> 
> JW


We have two viscious dachshunds in our house: a mini for concealed carry and a full sized for home defense. Both will bark and shatter ear drums. The mini will pee on the BG's leg when he bends over to pet him, and the full size will roll over and demand a tummy rub, keeping the BG occupied while I load my shotgun.

WM


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## Todd

TerryP said:


> Given that scenerio I would probably grab the 12 ga and the 45, wait at the top of the stairs and rack the slide while my wife calls 911. The criminals have to figure you hear them unless they are idiots so the intimidation of the slide might help change their mind. If not I'll use the 12 first and have the 45 nearby.


I wouldn't even give them the "courtesy" of hearing the slide being racked and the opportunity to change their minds and then move on to someone else. IMO, burglars who come in to a home in the middle of the night are the same as home invaders; they both know damn well that people are going to be home and don't fear (and probably are looking for) a confrontation. Screw 'em! Let them walk into the ambush they were hoping to spring on me. No warnings.


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## JeffWard

Wandering Man said:


> We have two viscious dachshunds in our house: a mini for concealed carry and a full sized for home defense. Both will bark and shatter ear drums. The mini will pee on the BG's leg when he bends over to pet him, and the full size will roll over and demand a tummy rub, keeping the BG occupied while I load my shotgun.
> 
> WM


Mini viscious attack dogs...









The brown one is the half-wit... The black one protects the portion of the house under the covers on my bed...


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## Wandering Man

JeffWard said:


> Mini viscious attack dogs...
> The black one protects the portion of the house under the covers on my bed...


Good to see he has his priorities straight. :mrgreen:

WM


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## khellandros66

.38 special with Glazers, this way I do not put family members or neighbors at risk of being hit by a stray round while sleeping. (I know a single round is not always a death dealer but thats why we use the two to the belly one to the head method.. you know the rest, if you don't well you aren't prepared to make this sort of judgment as a gun owner and are better off using other means to protect you, and your loved ones)

Shotgun is a horrible choice, cause in a one on one struggle it can be used as leverage against you. Especially if the assailant(s) use the element of surprise or has an advantage in height/strength.

.45 risks to be too powerful, and can go through an attacker, a wall and into someone else that you don't want it to.

~Bobby


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## big dutchman

12 gauge is clamped to the bottom of the bed frame. BG will hear no warning from me. if they break into my home, they are a direct threat towards me and mine and the threat will be eliminated no matter what their 'intentions' are.


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## Night Gunner

*Go For*

I go for my sw 45


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## Shipwreck

My Five Seven is my new nightstand gun. But, in your scenario - I'd go for the 45 given your 3 choices.


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## Spartan

Fortunately this has only happened once - and it was just my stupid cat getting tangled up in a plastic bag, getting scared, and knocking things off the counter.

Anyway, I gave my girlfriend the 92FS and grabbed the 45XD for myself.


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## SemoShooter

We have two Australian Shepherds that would be barking their asses off. My wife & I both have full size 1911's in 9mm loaded on each side of the bed and my AR15 is loaded in the bedroom closet.


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## john doe.

I would want the .45 for it's one stop power. I don't like the idea of a shotgun for home protection inside the house because I don't want stray shot hitting one of my family members.

Also, as far as a wheel gun and cocking back the hammer- don't do it! When I was training on my Air Force special operations team (Emergency Services Team) we did a training exercise involving a hostage rescue. I was the number two man on the entry team on this one (normally I was the marksman/sniper). Our point man had cocked his .38 (ya, that's what we had in the early 80's). As the exercise evolved we heard a click. The point man had squeezed the trigger a little to tight since it was in single action mode and he ended up shooting the hostage. He was told that this was a no, no but had cocked it anyway. 

A lesson well learned without casualties.


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## Mike Barham

khellandros66 said:


> .38 special with Glazers, this way I do not put family members or neighbors at risk of being hit by a stray round while sleeping. (I know a single round is not always a death dealer but thats why we use the two to the belly one to the head method.. you know the rest, if you don't well you aren't prepared to make this sort of judgment as a gun owner and are better off using other means to protect you, and your loved ones)


Do you mean by going through a bad guy, or going through walls? Glasers generally do stop in bad guys, though with what many (including me) consider questionably inadequate penetration levels. However, Glasers will usually sail through typical building materials, like most bullets. You can read about it here: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm, among other places.



> Shotgun is a horrible choice, cause in a one on one struggle it can be used as leverage against you. Especially if the assailant(s) use the element of surprise or has an advantage in height/strength.


Geez, you'd better not tell that to the tens of thousands of people who have successfully defended their homes with shotguns over the past couple of centuries. :mrgreen:

Properly employed, a shotgun is no more likely to be used against a home defender than any other gun. Yeah, if you don't know crap about weapon retention and decide to take a stroll through the house with your 28" barreled bird gun, the bad guy might take it. However, a trained and tactically aware person can move through a house pretty safely with a short (18"-20") shotgun. I can certainly do it with an M4, which isn't much shorter than a short shotgun.



> .45 risks to be too powerful, and can go through an attacker, a wall and into someone else that you don't want it to.


A good .45 JHP load is no more likely to perforate a human body than a good .38 Special, 9mm, or whatever else. Just look at the penetration depths. You can start at www.firearmstactical.com again.

Internet myths abound!


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## BRSmith

Of the three choices, I go with the .45. In my reality I grab the .41 mag and a .45 as backup


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## ki4dmh

I get my G-21 from its resting place. I have night lights placed in each room for clearing the room at night.
Scott


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## PanaDP

Definately the 12-gauge for me. Grab it, stay in the room, and call 911. If I had family in other rooms that would necessitate going outside my own room, I would probably opt for the .45 and a light.

In my own reality, I only own a PPK. It stays loaded with corbon JHPs. If anyone wanted in our apartment at night, it wouldn't be that tough but, being a second floor studio, we would know long before they got in.


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## Joeshwa24

I reach for the phone to let the hospital get a good head start, because unless he is armed and has killed my Dog (in which case a bullet from my gun will be the least of his worries when I am done with this guy) Sam (the dog) has just torn a large chunk of his body as a chew toy. Then I slowly walk down the hall with my 12 gauge mossy…


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## mvslay

I'd go for my .45 cause it has night sights. Plus the 12 ga would make hell of a mess. When I get Night sights on my Para P-14 it may be the go to solution. I used to keep a .357 Revolver as a pillow gun. But now it's my kimber. Also I have a few targets posted on my bedroom door with nice clover leafs on them.


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## Liko81

It would currently be my 9mm with 124gr JHPs. I did look very closely at the Mossberg Persuader on the rack at Academy, but other than driving 50 miles out of town with a couple boxes of buckshot cartridges, a cell phone and a friend, I have nowhere to go to become proficient with a shotgun.

The 9mm, used effectively, should "persuade" any BG to stop what he's doing and crumple to the floor in a bloody heap. Any one of these weapons would have the neighbors awake and calling 911, but it's always a good idea to call for a meatwagon yourself. BG is handcuffed to a gurney (or in a body bag) and you head back to bed, maybe after screwing a board across the door or placing some other sort of anti-door-opening device like a burglar bar in place.

Interesting legal question; BG breaks in and confronts you holding the firearm of your choice, which you discharge into BG. Texas now has the castle doctrine, so your actions are perfectly legal, and you are practically immune from lawsuit from the BG or his next of kin. However, once shot, the BG bleeds on an expensive rug and knocks your TV off the wall on the way to the ground. Can you sue the BG/next of kin for cleaning and a new TV? Are you likely to get anything? Does homeowners' insurance cover shootout damage?


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## Racerx

My pistol gripped 870 would probably do the job just fine, but my pocket 45ACP is usually close by. Also, my girlfriend's scary accurate with her USP compact 357sig!
Someone would be in for a world of hurt, but most likely just death.


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## JeffWard

I'd sue his A--...

Messing up my carpet... the nerve...

At least walk outside before you expire... bleed on the driveway!


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## audiologic

I generally work late. But, A bump in the night isn't very uncommon in my house. I have 2 roommates who are your typical college kids. Stumbling in the door at 4:30 when the bars close. So I would generally think it was them. But, If it were the described situation. I'd reach right for the carry gun since i keep it bedside. My .45 is in a locked pistol bag, which is in a locked briefcase. (trying to be cautious.) I haven't purchased a shotgun, YET! Waiting for the girlfriend to stop taking all that excess money at the end of every month. I'll probably have to wait untill tax returns. Oh well, win some... lose some i guess.


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## stormbringerr

same as i always say for home invasion, 12g w/buckshot. if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night they are going to end up dead w/one blast.:gib:


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## fivehourfrenzy

I wouldn't grab the shotgun, at least not in my apartment. It's a two-story townhouse and to go from my room to the stairs, then to the rest of the downstairs other than half the living room, it's a straight 180-degree turn, which would be a lot easier with a handgun. Honestly if someone is dumb enough to break into the front door of my apartment, they're gonna hear my 9-month old pit bull shrieking from my room. I always keep the door latched to keep her from wandering downstairs and raiding the trash can, which she somehow manages to get into at least once a day without me knowing. She's adorable and a total sweetheart, but I've seen her when someone she doesn't know steps through the door, and it would scare me if I didn't know her. If I ever did feel someone had broken in, I would put her in her crate, grab my .40, and listen at the door. If I thought I could open it without being heard, I would do so, making sure my roommate's door was also closed. If he's in his room at night, it's completely shut. Then I would wait at the top of the steps and see if he was unlucky enough to show any part of his body. Kentucky has the Castle Doctrine, so yes, he would be shot. Twice in the crotch, then once in the crotch.


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## Mike Barham

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I wouldn't grab the shotgun, at least not in my apartment. It's a two-story townhouse and to go from my room to the stairs, then to the rest of the downstairs other than half the living room, it's a straight 180-degree turn, which would be a lot easier with a handgun. Honestly if someone is dumb enough to break into the front door of my apartment, they're gonna hear my 9-month old pit bull shrieking from my room. I always keep the door latched to keep her from wandering downstairs and raiding the trash can, which she somehow manages to get into at least once a day without me knowing. She's adorable and a total sweetheart, but I've seen her when someone she doesn't know steps through the door, and it would scare me if I didn't know her. If I ever did feel someone had broken in, I would put her in her crate, grab my .40, and listen at the door. If I thought I could open it without being heard, I would do so, making sure my roommate's door was also closed. If he's in his room at night, it's completely shut. Then I would wait at the top of the steps and see if he was unlucky enough to show any part of his body. Kentucky has the Castle Doctrine, so yes, he would be shot. Twice in the crotch, then once in the crotch.


I am very glad I am not your roommate, since if I mistakenly closed my door before moving around the house I would be considered fair game for crotch shots. Three times. :mrgreen:

Not sure why you'd cage your fierce ally. Don't you _want_ to scare the housebreaker? Maybe he'd surrender and you wouldn't have to shoot him in the crotch.

Just because you _can_ shoot doesn't necessarily mean you _should_ shoot.


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## rudy

i have a pt145 next to my bed on the night stand. it is somewhat hidden, so i dont have to worry about someone seeing and want to grab it. i only know where it is. i got a glock 19 in the drawer on the same night stand. i have a boxer that is very protective of his family and always makes some kind of noise when she dont know what it is. i also have a loud ass alarm when doors are forcebly opened and makes a beeping noise when opened reagularly. my 12 gauge shot gun is back home in texas so when my father buys his im bringing it back home to roost.


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## Todd

Mike Barham said:


> Just because you _can_ shoot doesn't necessarily mean you _should_ shoot.


Well put! :smt023


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## fivehourfrenzy

Mike Barham said:


> I am very glad I am not your roommate, since if I mistakenly closed my door before moving around the house I would be considered fair game for crotch shots. Three times. :mrgreen:
> 
> Not sure why you'd cage your fierce ally. Don't you _want_ to scare the housebreaker? Maybe he'd surrender and you wouldn't have to shoot him in the crotch.
> 
> Just because you _can_ shoot doesn't necessarily mean you _should_ shoot.


My roommate's presence is unmistakeable. If it's him moving around I'll know it, but I'd always be sure it wasn't him before blowing his nuticles all over the floor. I'd cage her so the worst case scenario (her getting shot by the intruder) wouldn't happen. And even though she's a pit, she is by no means intimidating whatsoever.


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## Mike Barham

fivehourfrenzy said:


> My roommate's presence is unmistakeable. If it's him moving around I'll know it, but I'd always be sure it wasn't him before blowing his nuticles all over the floor. I'd cage her so the worst case scenario (her getting shot by the intruder) wouldn't happen.


Are you actually serious about shooting for the "nuticles?" I hope you're joking...it's hard to tell in this medium.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around caging the dog. Even if the situation goes really badly, isn't it better if the animal takes a bullet from an intruder, rather than you or your roommate? I mean, I like dogs and all...but it's just a dog. And you're giving up the ability to force the intruder to fight on two fronts - you and the dog - and thus giving up a major tactical advantage.



> And even though she's a pit, she is by no means intimidating whatsoever.





> I've seen her when someone she doesn't know steps through the door, and it would scare me if I didn't know her.


So, ummmm, which is it? Is the dog scary or not?


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## fivehourfrenzy

Mike Barham said:


> Are you actually serious about shooting for the "nuticles?" I hope you're joking...it's hard to tell in this medium.
> 
> I am still trying to wrap my mind around caging the dog. Even if the situation goes really badly, isn't it better if the animal takes a bullet from an intruder, rather than you or your roommate? I mean, I like dogs and all...but it's just a dog. And you're giving up the ability to force the intruder to fight on two fronts - you and the dog - and thus giving up a major tactical advantage.
> 
> So, ummmm, which is it? Is the dog scary or not?


Lol, well if I was the bad guy, the nuts are the last place I'd wanna take a bullet.  But in all seriousness, if the situation arose and I felt the need to use a firearm, I'd go for the two in the chest, one in the head. It might be better for my sake physically if my dog took a bullet instead of me, but I'm a dog lover to the 6th degree, and I would personally rather take a bullet than have her shot. Forcing the bad guy to converge on two targets rather than one makes sense, but I wouldn't use her as a decoy.

If I didn't know the dog, it would spook me, but not make me think I should fear for my life. If it was a 120-pound rott snarling and charging full speed, I'd turn around and get out. But a little 42-pound puppy yapping? It's never happened so I have no idea how she would react. Pit bulls typically make terrible guard dogs as they are naturally very friendly with humans. I dunno...guess I'll never know unless it actually happens. In any case, she would hear someone before I would, and if she barks anywhere in the apartment, you can hear her. If someone had broken in and was deterred by a dog, he'd be out the door before either of us left my room. A dog's bark is an instant signal that someone in the house probably knows you're there. So whether or not he left would probably be based on his attitude toward whether or not he wanted a confrontation. As far as I know, very few people break and enter uninvited without some sort of weapon, so I would assume any intruder would be armed.


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## Todd

Mike Barham said:


> Are you actually serious about shooting for the "nuticles?" I hope you're joking...it's hard to tell in this medium.


I think it was Massad Ayoob in his book "In The Gravest Extreme" that actually recommended shooting someone in the pelvis, citing the mental intimidation (especially for a man) of having a gun pointed there, plus the fact of the arteries in that region and the results of a shattered pelvis making it very difficult to move. I don't really agree with it thinking that in a stressful situation I'm going for a BIG target like COM (a head shot seems absurd to me unless I'm within arms reach and can give the BG a nice powder burn as well), but it is an interesting opinion.


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## Mike Barham

Todd said:


> I think it was Massad Ayoob in his book "In The Gravest Extreme" that actually recommended shooting someone in the pelvis, citing the mental intimidation (especially for a man) of having a gun pointed there, plus the fact of the arteries in that region and the results of a shattered pelvis making it very difficult to move. I don't really agree with it thinking that in a stressful situation I'm going for a BIG target like COM (a head shot seems absurd to me unless I'm within arms reach and can give the BG a nice powder burn as well), but it is an interesting opinion.


Mas covered this in some depth when I took his LFI-1 course. He doesn't advocate it as an recommended point of aim (or at least didn't when I took the course) in an actual fight. He likes the pelvic point of aim when holding someone at gunpoint, for three reasons:

1. So you have an unobstructed view of the hands.
2. The intimidation factor you mentioned.
3. It's his opinion that a pelvic shot can be relied on to instantly immobilize a person.

I can agree with the first reason, though of course Low Ready accomplishes the same thing.

I am not sure anyone, and even less so a hardened criminal, would be more intimidated by a pelvic point of aim versus a competent-looking person at Low Ready. And if you order him to put his hands on or above his head, as you should, you can aim at his upper chest and still view his hands. Of course, he may decline to raise his hands, at which point you can revert to the pelvic POI or Low Ready.

Based on some fairly convincing arguments against the pelvic POI made by medical doctors, I am very shaky on reason three. Several physicians I've read maintained that typical handgun bullets are not powerful enough to reliably shatter the very sturdy pelvis. They also stated that a fractured (as opposed to shattered) pelvis will not terribly impede movement, especially in a strong and/or highly motivated individual under stress. Thus, I find Ayoob's reasoning here a little suspect. I also note that the pelvis may be hard to hit simply because it is impossible to _see_, since I do not have x-ray or CAT-scan eyeballs. :mrgreen: Further, if the bad guy has a gun and your pelvic shot does manage to knock him down, he can still shoot you.

I agree that head shots will be _very_ challenging in a real fight where everyone is moving. I think your analysis of an arm's length head shot is spot on, though obviously a very large percentage of fights do take place at arm's length. The other place it might be feasible is in a hostage-rescue type scenario, but so few armed citizens will ever face that situation that it can almost be discounted.


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## fivehourfrenzy

The gun pointed at the crotchal region would be the most intimidating to me. A head shot you probably won't feel assuming the bullet penetrates the skull and causes immediate unconsciousness from brain trauma, and any body or limb shots can be healed to a certain degree, assuming they don't kill you, but a man's penis...that's something that could never be the same if it gets shot, and the thought of getting shot in the genitals at least renders the thought of maximum pain. I did some pretty extensive reading on the infamous "one shot stop," and from a physiological standpoint, a single shot that incapacitates the body (not necessarily kills) is a direct hit on the brain and CNS, more specifically the upper spinal cord. This makes sense, as some psychological factors can decrease or completely ignore the physical pain (especially when on cocaine, meth, or PCP). But at the same time, psychological factors can be the cause of immediate incapacitation rather than a fatal shot. Rage over being shot could overcome physical pain, while fear of being shot or killed could make the perception of pain much more than it really is. But generally speaking, people feel pain when they get shot, and a lot of that comes from overly believing that being shot means death. For a lot of people, they feel the amount of pain they think they should, rather than what the body's natural reaction should give them. I know there have been times I didn't realize I had done something that should hurt until I noticed I had done it. I slid a van door completely shut on my thumb and never felt a thing 'til I tried to move and realized my thumb was crushed. I chopped part of my finger off with a hatchet and didn't feel a thing 'til I saw the chunk of finger laying three inches away. If I'm reading while I get a tattoo, I barely feel the gun. The second I stop actively deverting my attention to something besides the subtle feeling on my skin, the pain sets in real quick. People tend to see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear...and more often than not they feel what they want to feel. In the self defense category, it's an advantage when they think a bullet is really supposed to hurt. On the flipside, it's a serious disadvantage when they know anything but trauma to the brain and CNS will instantly drop you.


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## Todd

Mike Barham said:


> The other place it might be feasible is in a hostage-rescue type scenario, but so few armed citizens will ever face that situation that it can almost be discounted.


What are you talking about? Just the other day I encountered a hostage situation. No, wait. There I go again mixing up my video games and real life. :mrgreen:


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## babs

Might have missed it but didn't see anyone mention the fact that for the right load in a shotgun, you can far more effectively keep the nastiness to befall the BG in that room, rather than sending high-velocity holes though various walls (especially with little tikes in their beds upstairs.. that's a concern).. 

So you can effectively "pepper the perp" without giving your kids or your neighbors a taste as (I assume here) bird or deer shot is contained by walls far better than a stray 9mm, .357sig or .45 acp round. 

Shotgun: 
Perp goes bye bye and you've got some drywall and painting to do, but the kids stay safe (goal #1).

Pistol:
Might send a round though more than one wall, so even if you air-condition the perp, you might hit something or someone you really don't wanna.. which could make for a reeeeeeally bad scene in a father's life.

... all that from a guy looking at pistols for home defense.. go figure.. Well, range shooting also, but I'd be pretty darn sure of my firing angle.. downstream from friendlies.


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## TOF

babs said:


> Might have missed it but didn't see anyone mention the fact that for the right load in a shotgun, you can far more effectively keep the nastiness to befall the BG in that room, rather than sending high-velocity holes though various walls (especially with little tikes in their beds upstairs.. that's a concern)..
> 
> So you can effectively "pepper the perp" without giving your kids or your neighbors a taste as (I assume here) bird or deer shot is contained by walls far better than a stray 9mm, .357sig or .45 acp round.
> 
> Shotgun:
> Perp goes bye bye and you've got some drywall and painting to do, but the kids stay safe (goal #1).
> 
> Pistol:
> Might send a round though more than one wall, so even if you air-condition the perp, you might hit something or someone you really don't wanna.. which could make for a reeeeeeally bad scene in a father's life.
> 
> ... all that from a guy looking at pistols for home defense.. go figure.. Well, range shooting also, but I'd be pretty darn sure of my firing angle.. downstream from friendlies.


My experience tells me that a 12 Guage shotgun (lesser calibers also) will make very nasty holes through both sides of a sheet rock wall and still kill you very dead. If you have several walls between you and precious cargo it might be safe but one wall is no guarantee. Don't count on Sheet rock to protect from any gun suitable for defense against full size people. At 5 ft. a 1 oz. charge of lead pellets acts essentialy like a slug.

If you hit the perp in a thick zone before your shot/reaches sheetrock it will probably prevent passage into the next room from most rounds. If you miss your target all bets are off.

:smt1099


----------



## Mike Barham

*TOF* is exactly correct. Check out the tests at www.theboxotruth.com. A shotgun loaded with buckshot (#4 through 00) goes through the same amount of drywall as a 9mm or .45 pistol, approximately 6-7 sheets, which is equivalent to three interior walls. Birdshot may go through less drywall, but being designed to kill little birds, only penetrates 4-5" in unclothed gelatin, which isn't nearly enough to reliably hit vital organs on a human, especially one clad in a coat.

*Any round that penetrates deeply enough to reliably put down a human will also go through several interior walls.* Instead of trying to find a magic bullet or load, we need to learn to shoot carefully and make the hits we need to end the fight and keep our family safe.


----------



## toopercentmlk

Just got an Insight M3 tac light for my glock21, It's my allowance to fall asleep at night... a slight exaggeration, more like dedicated nightstand gun.

edit: JHPs of course. Federal Premium Hydra-shok.


----------



## fivehourfrenzy

toopercentmlk said:


> Federal Premium Hydra-shok.


CCI Gold Dot 180gr. JHPs for me. CCI mini-mags in the .22, until I actually go hunting, then I'll grab some Velocitors.


----------



## babs

Mike Barham said:


> *TOF* is exactly correct. Check out the tests at www.theboxotruth.com. A shotgun loaded with buckshot (#4 through 00) goes through the same amount of drywall as a 9mm or .45 pistol, approximately 6-7 sheets, which is equivalent to three interior walls. Birdshot may go through less drywall, but being designed to kill little birds, only penetrates 4-5" in unclothed gelatin, which isn't nearly enough to reliably hit vital organs on a human, especially one clad in a coat.
> 
> *Any round that penetrates deeply enough to reliably put down a human will also go through several interior walls.* Instead of trying to find a magic bullet or load, we need to learn to shoot carefully and make the hits we need to end the fight and keep our family safe.


I love this forum.. another lesson learned by the newb here.. I guess I'm not doing such a dumb thing after all then by getting a .45 acp for the job.


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## rahlquist

Mike Barham said:


> *TOF* is exactly correct. Check out the tests at www.theboxotruth.com. A shotgun loaded with buckshot (#4 through 00) goes through the same amount of drywall as a 9mm or .45 pistol, approximately 6-7 sheets, which is equivalent to three interior walls. Birdshot may go through less drywall, but being designed to kill little birds, only penetrates 4-5" in unclothed gelatin, which isn't nearly enough to reliably hit vital organs on a human, especially one clad in a coat.
> 
> *Any round that penetrates deeply enough to reliably put down a human will also go through several interior walls.* Instead of trying to find a magic bullet or load, we need to learn to shoot carefully and make the hits we need to end the fight and keep our family safe.


This is why the wife and I havent bought a shotgun. If god forbid someone broke in and made it up the stairs shooting them in the hallway puts my daughter on her captains bed in harms way(she wold be behind the perp). With a pistol we have a good chance of hitting the perp and not hitting her. Of course the likelihood of someone making it past the $1k alarm system (little yipping chihuahua) is slim to none.


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## Mike Barham

rahlquist said:


> This is why the wife and I havent bought a shotgun. If god forbid someone broke in and made it up the stairs shooting them in the hallway puts my daughter on her captains bed in harms way(she wold be behind the perp). With a pistol we have a good chance of hitting the perp and not hitting her. Of course the likelihood of someone making it past the $1k alarm system (little yipping chihuahua) is slim to none.


That's one way to look at it. However, even from an open-choked shotgun, the pattern only spreads about 1" per yard or less. Thus, unless you have a huge home, the shot spread isn't going to be terribly wide. Shoulder weapons are also _much_ easier to shoot well under stress versus a handgun. The vast majority of people will hit much better under stress with a shotgun than with a pistol.

Anyway, if your backstop is your daughter's room, you should give some extremely serious thought to reconfiguring your fields of fire or changing your tactics. There's _no way in hell_ I'd even think about launching rounds with _my_ daughter directly behind the bad guy.

A "good chance"?!?!?!?


----------



## rahlquist

Mike Barham said:


> That's one way to look at it. However, even from an open-choked shotgun, the pattern only spreads about 1" per yard or less. Thus, unless you have a huge home, the shot spread isn't going to be terribly wide. Shoulder weapons are also _much_ easier to shoot well under stress versus a handgun. The vast majority of people will hit much better under stress with a shotgun than with a pistol.


While you have a very good argument here, the tactics are odd due to our floor plan, daughters room is beside stairs to floor below, A determined perp could be in the front or back door and at our bedroom door in 4 seconds. Thats the reason for the dog and he will have company soon (he is currently barking at a possum right now).



> Anyway, if your backstop is your daughter's room, you should give some extremely serious thought to reconfiguring your fields of fire or changing your tactics. There's _no way in hell_ I'd even think about launching rounds with _my_ daughter directly behind the bad guy.


In all but the most brazen and well executed home invasion we should be able to eliminate the issue by stepping into the hallway (her room and bed it diagonal from ours).



> A "good chance"?!?!?!?


ok a well tested response?

Bottom line is yes given a better floor plan it would be non issue.


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## Mike Barham

I think you need a bigger dog. :mrgreen:


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## rahlquist

Mike Barham said:


> I think you need a bigger dog. :mrgreen:


Wont argue that point, but so far I havent felt like putting a fence on our lot. Besides if he hears a car or even keys jingle he goes ape but he is well behaved enough that when the chain gangs come down cleaning the right of ways he barks from the yard instead of getting too close. He also saved this house from burning down right after we moved in too, the water heater in the garage caught fire and he barked non stop till my wife went out and put the fire out with our extinguisher.

Remember the size of the dog doesnt matter if there is a big enough bite thats got his back..


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## Mike Barham

If you view him as a (very!) portable alarm, that's fine. Good on him for saving you from the fire, by the way! I was mainly kidding - my own dog is a gentle Australian cattle dog. I have no interest in the fighting breeds.

But of course a bigger dog may slow down the intruder and give you more than four seconds to mount a defense. Then again, some people crate their fighting dogs if there's a fight brewing. 

Getting back on topic, does anyone have an 18"-20" 870 barrel in 12 gauge they want to part with? :mrgreen:


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## cncguns

I grab my 9mm on the way to my 12 ga...
If 1 gun is good 2 is better...


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## JeffWard

Mike,
I bought mine brand new through Midway for under $100. Mossburg brand 870 barrel. Blued, to match my gun, or flat if you want. Works great. Fits perfect.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=813264&t=11082005

Jeff


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## Mike Barham

Thanks, *Jeff*. I've had my eye on that very one, for when I redeploy back to the States. Always looking for a bargain, though! :mrgreen:


----------



## NAS T MAG

khellandros66 said:


> .38 special with Glazers, this way I do not put family members or neighbors at risk of being hit by a stray round while sleeping. (I know a single round is not always a death dealer but thats why we use the two to the belly one to the head method.. you know the rest, if you don't well you aren't prepared to make this sort of judgment as a gun owner and are better off using other means to protect you, and your loved ones)
> 
> Shotgun is a horrible choice, cause in a one on one struggle it can be used as leverage against you. Especially if the assailant(s) use the element of surprise or has an advantage in height/strength.
> 
> .45 risks to be too powerful, and can go through an attacker, a wall and into someone else that you don't want it to.
> 
> ~Bobby


A shotgun shell can do some serious damage at close range. My bedside companion would deliver 3 .410 #4 and then 2 .45 hollow points. I don't think I would have to use the .45's!

I just hope I never have to find out.


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## mattkats1

I second the chihauhau (mine's 3.2 lbs of pure terror), but if that didn't work I guess I'd grab my Glock. That and my trusty Red Ryder 200 shot Air Rifle!


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## Mike Barham

mattkats1 said:


> That and my trusty Red Ryder 200 shot Air Rifle!


Okay, I will insert the obligatory _Christmas Story_ joke: You'll put his eye out!


----------



## mattkats1

Mike Barham said:


> Okay, I will insert the obligatory _Christmas Story_ joke: You'll put his eye out!


hehe I'm shocked it took that long for someone to quote that incredible movie! Good job!


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## mc2

Id grab my Glock 19 9mm because i'm its reliable, and acurate. I beleive the first shot will be key in making sure I come out on top..

You also cant go wrong with the sinister sound of racking a 12 gauge shot gun..

------

Also I recommend that you prepare yourself in the event of a home invasion. I personally set my alarm to wake me up iin the middler of the night to trigger a "breakin drill." I go for the glock 19 (unloaded) and pretend he's walking around while i wait to ambush him.


I've got two mags ready with Corbon JHP rounds for the necessary stopping power.


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## Mike Barham

mc2 said:


> Also I recommend that you prepare yourself in the event of a home invasion. I personally set my alarm to wake me up iin the middler of the night to trigger a "breakin drill." I go for the glock 19 (unloaded) and pretend he's walking around while i wait to ambush him.


Rehearsals are a very good idea, not just for home invasions, but for things like fires. Having done it a few times beforehand is way better than making it up on the fly, under stress. I don't know that I'd go so far as waking myself up in the dead of night to rehearse - the chances of an ND increase tremendously when groggy - but rehearsals are a good idea nonetheless. This is particularly so if your home defense plan requires you to move, like to a kid's bedroom, big closet, etc.


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## fivehourfrenzy

Mike Barham said:


> But of course a bigger dog may slow down the intruder and give you more than four seconds to mount a defense. Then again, some people crate their fighting dogs if there's a fight brewing. :mrgreen:


Well Mike, I got to see my puppy in action the other night. After sitting in the deck closet for nearly a half hour with no action from the mice, I decided to go back in. Being fully clad in camo, balaclava, and goggles, my dog did not recognize me when I came to the glass door. She went into a frenzy of barks and growls, flew straight to the door, and made more noise than a bomb going off. I went with it and slowly slid the door open, then crept toward her. She kept about a six foot distance, but never backed down. I was hoping she'd pseudo attack me, but again she's not even ten months old, so she's still a pup and really can't be expected to display much aggressive behavior toward a BG. As she gets closer to adulthood I imagine she won't be keeping her distance if it ever does happen.


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## Todd

fivehourfrenzy said:


> Being fully clad in camo, balaclava, and goggles, ...


Those gotta be some bad-ass mice if you have to dress like that. :smt171


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## fivehourfrenzy

Todd said:


> Those gotta be some bad-ass mice if you have to dress like that. :smt171


If you saw what our outside closet floor looked like, you'd know. It was nearly fully covered with mouse droppings. Didn't hafta be in camo, but my snowboarding gear is camo, so that's what I was wearing. Here's what it looks like since I don't have any pics:



















Goggles that I'm selling on ebay as of right now:










It was tight. My roommate laughed at me when I came walking down the stairs but I had to stay warm somehow.


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## Mike Barham

Todd said:


> Those gotta be some bad-ass mice if you have to dress like that. :smt171


And if you face any rats, you'd better pull out the Second Chance body armor and the Kevlar helmet!


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## fivehourfrenzy

A little league football helmet with an open facemask should suffice, assuming I properly adjust the chinstrap. I actually have a funny story about a rat...not this past fall semester but the one before, I had just moved into my fraternity house for a year. We had the entire ceiling and floor ripped apart in the front hallway so there were tiles all over the place. I came downstairs around 2am and opened the door and there was this ginormous rat standing there. I swear the thing was damn near a foot long not including the tail. I actually thought it was a oppossum at first. I chased it into another room and called one of my brothers down and we couldn't find it. The very next night at 2am I went downstairs and there it was again, perched on a busted ceiling tile. I yelled at Scott and he grabbed this huge sword he had mounted on his wall and we went after it. I lifted every couch in that room several times and he'd swing under it but we never did find it. There were a few nooks and crannies in the room we chased it into, but honestly I don't know how it got through any of them. This thing was as big around as my neck.


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## Mike Barham

Possibly you should lay off buying guns and contact an exterminator.


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## fivehourfrenzy

Mike...*I am the exterminator...rahrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## bigblock10

Well the Weimaraner that sleeps in the bed with us would let us know that someone was in the house. He is smart about it tho, he will wake me up by licking my face b4 he goes apeshi$,
once I am up he is balls to the wall. I have never seen a dog get that mad about someone being in his house without us knowing, the hair along his spine stand's on end. lol then i know its time to grab the .45 

DEREK


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## gmaske

This thread and Mike's link to firearmstactical were enough to convence me that this was a good place to join so.....here I am and thanks again Mike for the excellent reading material. I unlearned a lot! I got a real validation on my choice of a new home security system as seen below (45 ACP)


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## fivehourfrenzy

bigblock10 said:


> Well the Weimaraner that sleeps in the bed with us would let us know that someone was in the house. He is smart about it tho, he will wake me up by licking my face b4 he goes apeshi$,
> once I am up he is balls to the wall. I have never seen a dog get that mad about someone being in his house without us knowing, the hair along his spine stand's on end. lol then i know its time to grab the .45
> 
> DEREK


My pup's kinda the same way. If she's trying to let me know someone's coming up the steps, knocking on the door, or walking in, she has a particular bark that says, "hey someone's at the door!" But if she thinks someone's coming in that doesn't belong there, it's definitely a different bark. She's really protective, being an APBT and also having 10-15% German Sheperd (which are pretty protective). Super light sleeper so if anyone so much as whispered in our apartment in the dead of night, she'd be up and going beserk. Her shoulders are starting to widen out and the rest of her body is filling in, and I'm about to get her a custom-made harness and start training her to weight pull. She'll be a mean looking dog in about six months.


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## MetalMan52

*Livin it*

I had my own opinions as to what I would use but I will defer to what my son has told me. He is currently in Tikrit, Iraq, doing the up close and dirry work. His words were "f*** the m4, f*** the shotgun, give me a pistol that will put someone down, now. In an urban scenario, mobility and lethality rule. Think about it, going up a staircase....to a second floor or a rooftop. I know it's somewhat different than your bedroom but I can't fault his logic. I want to be able to shoot and scoot ASAP.
Enough said, .45 gets my vote. He is not a big fan of the 9mm, too many double and triple taps without "hogie" going down.. 
Pat


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## Mike Barham

MetalMan52 said:


> I had my own opinions as to what I would use but I will defer to what my son has told me. He is currently in Tikrit, Iraq, doing the up close and dirry work. His words were "f*** the m4, f*** the shotgun, give me a pistol that will put someone down, now. In an urban scenario, mobility and lethality rule. Think about it, going up a staircase....to a second floor or a rooftop. I know it's somewhat different than your bedroom but I can't fault his logic. I want to be able to shoot and scoot ASAP.
> Enough said, .45 gets my vote. He is not a big fan of the 9mm, too many double and triple taps without "hogie" going down..
> Pat


Urban combat, kicking in doors and clearing buildings, isn't really the same as home defense. You're moving swiftly and engaging targets as they appear. Often there are multiple targets with things like AKs and light machine guns.

My unit has kicked in plenty of doors, and none our guys want to use _any_ pistol to clear a house - they all like their M4s. Different people have different perspectives, though, and maybe the Iraq theater is different. I've cleared buildings with an M4, and it's just no big deal. A shouldered M4 doesn't stick out any more than a pistol held in a firing position. Ditto for Low Ready. And a shotgun or M4 will put haji down much more authoritatively than ANY pistol in the military inventory.

Not sure why you can't "shoot and scoot" with a shotgun or carbine. It's no big deal, and making hits on the move with a carbine is a lot easier than doing it with a pistol. It's not like you'll be doing an obstacle course while defending your house. You might take a few steps off the line of force or to cover/concealment, but that's easily done with a long gun.


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## JeffWard

If I were in a "known threat" environment, clearing a building, especially with an unknown layout???

NO QUESTIONS ASKED... I'm carrying a short-barreled shotgun with buckshot and as much capacity as possible.

There's no pistol caliber on the planet that will put down "Hagi", or any other human target faster than a load of buck at close quarters...

12 Guage vs. M4??? The M4 gets the nod vs body armor, and in capacity.

30 round 12 gauge anyone???

But since I don't clear buildings for a living, and I don't have to worry about more than 1-3 perps at a time??? 12 Guage.



That said, I'm testing 00 Buck vs #1 Buck this week. Massad is a big fan of #1 from what I remember. I also got some 3" #1... 24 pellets vs 9...

Jeff


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## Todd

JeffWard said:


> 30 round 12 gauge anyone???


There is the AA 12 full-auto shotgun with a 20 round drum. The thing was on Future Weapons. Pretty bad ass!


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## neophyte

*ingratiating*

Mike: Sir; I don't know anything about M'4's but I'll go with you "IF" you'll provide me a shotgun and some "body" to carry the shells. Aint know way in h&&l do I want to go in with a handgun. On the other hand, I want 2 shotguns, one for closets; Sir; I've had a history of ingratiating myself:smt083. 
Jeff: Sir; maybe we can spend the rest of our natural lives and not have "Mike's" worry.:smt083 Around the HOUSE; shotgun and we are good to go with that 'bump in the night':smt023

Do follow up with your experiment; What would interest me: the different distances; 8'-15' maybe @5' dispersions


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## Mike Barham

*Jeff*, this might interest you: http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_12.htm.


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## fivehourfrenzy

Google image search "handgun wounds" and then search "shotgun wounds." But again, I don't have a shotgun, or sadly, an M4.


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## Todd

fivehourfrenzy said:


> But again, I don't have a shotgun, or sadly, an M4.


And the world is a safer place because of it. :anim_lol:


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## Mike Barham

Todd said:


> And the world is a safer place because of it. :anim_lol:


Gatorade just came out my nose. :mrgreen:


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## kenn

*Tatoo*



fivehourfrenzy said:


> But again, I don't have a shotgun, or sadly, an M4.


After looking at your avatar, I have to say the tatoo job to add those would be insane.


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## JeffWard

I like my new 2-round mag extension... Should be fine for anything shy of the whole gang...

But then if the whole gan shows up: I have 40 rounds of .45ACP from the XD, followed by 27 rounds of 9mm from XD #2, and then 23 rounds of 9mm from the Kel-Tec, then another 17 loaded in Carla's P226, and if all else fails... 5 more .38 Specials in her snubbie...

Then the Air Soft AK in Mark's room...

I think 119 rounds should do...

Jeff


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## fivehourfrenzy

kenn said:


> After looking at your avatar, I have to say the tatoo job to add those would be insane.


It would be...just wait 'til I get a lightsaber on the other side, then they'll think I'm a jedi.


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## BrokenArrow

All I'm gonna hear is the alarm and my dogs as I dial 911 and wait. Unless it sounds like the dogs need help, then I will be very careful in my attempt to give some.

My primary HD weapon is an old Rem 870 Police w Surefire X200 attached. Win 0 buck (12/.32 pellets) in tube, 1 oz slugs on stock (bear and lion wander my neighborhood).

Penetration in gel through standard interior wall:

147/9 JHP 22.8/.36
180/40 JHP 25.2/.40
230/45 JHP 29.7/.45
12g/1 oz slug 22.8/.85
12g/00 buck 23.2/NA
55/223 FMJ 16/.22 frag
75/223 HP 13/.44 frag

Don't live in trailer parks. Even #4 buck can exit one trailer and enter another 25 ft away.


----------



## sheepdog

I like the way the Big Dutchman thinks...anyone who will enter an occupied dwelling at night by breaking in is capable of anything...and needs to be given no warning or quarter....it's not just in the movies that a street-wise thug talks nice and then overpowers the armed homeowner...who is not trained for combat like many of us old dogs are...they had the only chance they'll get when they stood outside making up their mind.....but add a bright light to the situation, where you know you're not facing a son, daughter, or other family member who may be a bit drunky..... my answer 20 ga. pump and .45 auto...first four up are slugs...last two are buckshot...I don't want to face a perp holding a family member with a scattergun...takes too long to drop it and draw the .45...and rifle accuracy would be important in that possible situation...aimed shots are better no matter what the situation...


----------



## GTD

12g Pump, the sound of putting slug in the chamber should send most intruders running with a load in their pants.


----------



## fivehourfrenzy

BrokenArrow said:


> Don't live in trailer parks. Even #4 buck can exit one trailer and enter another 25 ft away.


:anim_lol: I'll remember that next time I think about moving into a trailer park.


----------



## Countryfunk

We have a two story home, with an alarm. My wife's 9mm, my 9mm buy enough time to get the 870 and secure the kids. Bad guy(s) comes up stairs, bad guy(s) goes down. They can have whatever they want downstairs. Come near my family, and it's the last bad choice they'll ever make.


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## gt1911

First I would wake up my wife and have he lock herself in the room with my daughter and the shotgun. Then I would grab my .45 and wait for the guy.


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## nukehayes

I have one of my handguns near me when I sleep and my dog sleeps at the top of the stairs. I would like to have the shotgun ready to go, but I don't know how to safely store it and still be ready to use within say 30 seconds. I have 5rds of 00 Buck in a elastic sleeve thingy on the stock, but still have a cable lock through the action. any suggestions?


----------



## Joeshwa24

I think its funny how many people say they would use their handgun, Don’t get me wrong I love my handguns and I am a fairly good shot but I still miss stationary targets in the middle of the day. Think about a moving target in the middle of the night and you were just dreaming 3 seconds ago, you’re not going to hit a dang thing. Get a shotgun load it 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug leave it out of sight but in reach, you will hit something I promises.


----------



## Todd

Joeshwa24 said:


> I think its funny how many people say they would use their handgun


I think a lot of people choose handgun because they don't own a shotgun (my reason) or the shotgun is not readily accessible because they have it locked down for some reason making it impractical to get it engaged quickly.


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## CentexShooter

The "Street Howitzer" is always within reach of the bed! The first round up is No. 4 buckshot followed by five rounds of 00.


----------



## Mike Barham

Joeshwa24 said:


> I think its funny how many people say they would use their handgun, Don't get me wrong I love my handguns and I am a fairly good shot but I still miss stationary targets in the middle of the day. Think about a moving target in the middle of the night and you were just dreaming 3 seconds ago, you're not going to hit a dang thing. Get a shotgun load it 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug leave it out of sight but in reach, you will hit something I promises.


At the short ranges that characterize most homes, it is fairly easy to miss with a shotgun, too. The pattern is tight at short range.

Most defense-minded people seem to shoot their handguns more than their shotguns. It's natural to want to use the thing you are most familiar with.

I'll pass on the slugs. *Way* too much penetration. I like my family and my neighbors.


----------



## uncle ben

I would rather "clear" my home with a handgun(9mm in my case) for compactness and manuverability - comapred to a shotgun. I feel that a shotgun is a better choice if you will be staying put somewhere (my wife for example) and waiting for them to come to you. To me an 18" barrel (shortest allowed in CA) is still a little long, and you would have to saw it off (illegal) to make it tactical within tight home quarters. But I guess a lot of it is about what is comfortable to you and will make you confident!


----------



## BarbedWireSmile

Mike Barham said:


> A good .45 JHP load is no more likely to perforate a human body than a good .38 Special, 9mm, or whatever else. Just look at the penetration depths. You can start at www.firearmstactical.com again.


Agreed. I would go a step farther & say it's less likely.
I've never understood the concern about .45 ACP overpenetrating. A big, slow moving bullet is less likely to overpenetrate than a faster moving bullet (9mm, .40 S&W, etc). This is true in HP ammo, and it's also true with hardball, where a 9mm ballistics profile looks like an ice-pick stab wound.

As for me, in the situation you describe, I'm not sure the choice matters. You have been awakened and are alert. The intruder is unaware you are awake and armed. You've got the tactical advantage and caliber is not of primary importance.


----------



## niadhf

Mike Barham said:


> Getting back on topic, does anyone have an 18"-20" 870 barrel in 12 gauge they want to part with? :mrgreen:


No. But i love my stoeger Coach gun (18-1/2") granted it is only 2 shots, but I practice with it on relaods. And staring at 2 barrels I would find even more intimidating. But Back to the original - i am comfortable and practice with it.


----------



## niadhf

JeffWard said:


> I like my new 2-round mag extension... Should be fine for anything shy of the whole gang...
> 
> But then if the whole gan shows up: I have 40 rounds of .45ACP from the XD, followed by 27 rounds of 9mm from XD #2, and then 23 rounds of 9mm from the Kel-Tec, then another 17 loaded in Carla's P226, and if all else fails... 5 more .38 Specials in her snubbie...
> 
> Then the Air Soft AK in Mark's room...
> 
> I think 119 rounds should do...
> 
> Jeff


"and if that doesnt work I %!$$ on them!" - movie anyone?


----------



## fivehourfrenzy

niadhf said:


> "and if that doesnt work I %!$$ on them!" - movie anyone?


Sounds like something I would say. I've only been in one movie, and it was a three-segment porn filmed with a cell phone. Horrible angles, crappy audio, plus the mood was shot.


----------



## vel525

hi all,
new here and just reading threads and soaking up info. actually don't own a handgun yet, but the reason i signed up is i am in the market for my first handgun.

anyways, reading this thread made me think of an instance a few years ago. one night my gf (now wife) and i were asleep when all of a sudden my dog went crazy barking and howling and growling. well, the dog usually sleeps at the foot of the bed or near the bed so she scared the crap of out of my gf who woke up screaming. by this time i lept out of bed, half asleep, in my underwear, and grabbed my sword. fortunately, some drunk people had knocked on our door by accident and it was a false alarm. it was scary at the time because i thought we were getting robbed or attacked, but thinking back of how i looked running around the apt with a sword makes me crack up everytime. :smt082

just wanted to say hello and i am going to look at guns this weekend. :mrgreen:


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## niadhf

vel525 said:


> by this time i lept out of bed, half asleep, in my underwear, and grabbed my sword. :smt082
> 
> just wanted to say hello and i am going to look at guns this weekend. :mrgreen:


1. Hello and welcome
2. sounds like me 2 summers ago. Had a racoon killing chickens. Guns were all up stairs and i was REALLY POed, (3 am) so i grabbed the Shelalee (sp?) and went down to the barn. Had to peel fur out of it the next day. My wife still laughs at me about that
brokenimage


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## fivehourfrenzy

vel525 said:


> hi all,
> thinking back of how i looked running around the apt with a sword makes me crack up everytime. :smt082
> 
> just wanted to say hello and i am going to look at guns this weekend. :mrgreen:


Welcome...you should get some sound advice concerning your first purchase on this forum.

If I was robbing your apartment and you came after me with a sword, I'd sh*t my pants. At least with a gun someone can miss...at three feet nobody misses with a sword, and I'd rather be shot to death than sliced and diced to death with a sword.


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## Milliron

The gauge. Anybody who is brave enough and durable enough to get up my stairs and withstand 6+ rounds of 00 buck mixed with slug and survive is obviously a Terminator sent from another world and we're all dead anyway.


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## RDial

The wife and I have two chihuahuas that will bark at any sound they hear. Of course I have a 12 gauge willing and ready. Have a tomahawk by the bed too.


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## hawcer

I would leave the .45 with the wife,get the 12gauge and slip the carry gun into my pajama's pants pocket,just in case.(Yes, I wear pajama pants to bed). Top of stairs(DARK) Bottom of the stairs(LIGHT)...so if the perp crosses in front of me ,at least I can see what or who I may be shooting at.And that's only if my dog hasn't already ate 'em.


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## Wandering Man

RDial said:


> Have a tomahawk by the bed too.


You might have a tough time in court justifying why you have the BG's scalp hanging from your bedpost. :smt082

WM


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## wiseguy

Secret answer D: DPMS LR-308 AP4...never know...that bump could be a grizzly bear


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## fivehourfrenzy

Milliron said:


> The gauge. Anybody who is brave enough and durable enough to get up my stairs and withstand 6+ rounds of 00 buck mixed with slug and survive is obviously a Terminator sent from another world and we're all dead anyway.


:anim_lol: Just sneak behind him and pull some fuses. Then rewire him to rob the gun store and bring you all the ammo.


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## moouers

Wandering Man said:


> We have two viscious dachshunds in our house: a mini for concealed carry and a full sized for home defense. Both will bark and shatter ear drums. The mini will pee on the BG's leg when he bends over to pet him, and the full size will roll over and demand a tummy rub, keeping the BG occupied while I load my shotgun.
> 
> WM


LOL.


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## EPWrangler

spacedoggy said:


> Depends what room I'm in. Yes I have a different gun in each room which covers all three plus. Then I would think I was dreaming since we only have one story house so there must be a black hole in one of the rooms


I pray to God that if I have to use it I will not miss and he will.


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## kev74

My plan, if I were to catch an intruder in the act, is to grab my pistol griped, short barrel Mossberg 500C from the closet, rack it once and then hopefully hear the BG run away in a hurry - I don't want to have to clean blood off the carpets! :numbchuck:

In actuallity, when someone did get into our house while we were sleeping, They got in our back room and grabbed my wife's purse and my briefcase and took off. We slept through it and didn't hear a thing. Then the BG went to the house next door, cut open a screen and grabed a ring of keys and drove off in their truck. They slept through it and didn't hear a thing!

Crooks aren't as dumb as you think. They're going to look for the easiest target and avoid confrontation.


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## Kyle1337

Being in a two bedroom apartment, I have to be fully aware of my background so I don't accidentally kill or harm a neighbor, I have neighbors on all sides but the front. I use JHP's in my XD-40, and get a lower velocity round hoping that it would stay in a BG. I have SP's in my .223 in my walk in closet but I know if I had to use my .223 its going to go through a wall no matter what round I'm using just by FPS alone. I should get a shotgun for a long gun instead of my .223. But being in such a small apartment, I don't think I'd ever have time to retrieve my .223. It would take someone about 2 seconds to get from front door to my bedroom, but my bedroom door is locked at night, so that's two different locks to go through.


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## fivehourfrenzy

My roommate came in one night with a huge wig and sunglasses on after a party. My puppy ran down the stairs, took one look him, then went ape sh*t and chased him out the front door. He took his wig and shades off, walked back in, and she was all smiles. It was pretty funny.


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## NCstarter

Hey, i'm not sure if anybody has mentioned this but for many dogs if you are quite domanant they will view you as the Alpha. part of the job of the Alpha is to protect the rest of the pack, so if your dog hides behind you don't be suprised. 

My dog will bark at strangers and things outside of the appartment but when she met my GF's uncle's dog *who was about 1.5x her size* she hid behind me when he got aggresive.


once i left the room though she started whoppin on him


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## fivehourfrenzy

If I ever have to deal with a home invader, my dog's growling and barking will probably send him out the door before I'm even awake. But if I happen to be downstairs when the BG breaks in and she hides behind me, no big deal...I'm the one holding a .45 or a 12-gauge, not her.


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## skyfire

tnoisaw said:


> I would want the .45 for it's one stop power.


im a pretty good shot, and I'm 100% sure a 9mm to the face will stop an intruder in his/her tracks just as effectively as a .45, im not saying you argued otherwise, I just see tons of people mention their 40sw and 45acp's for their stopping power, but to be honest i wouldn't feel any safer being at the business end of a .22 over a .45, they both have the potential to kill ya

and as far as overpenetration, a 9mm with a higher grain bullet in hollowpoint (147gr hydrashock or hornady tap for example) has low velocity and low penetration (though you'd probably want the lighter grain if you're shooting out of a subcompact or anything with a really short barrel)

but... that's one of those age-old arguments lol

what do I keep in the nightstand? a Mk 19 grenade launcher.

lol ok maybe not :anim_lol: i have a p226 and a 20gauge pump (no other non verbal sound says "get the f*ck out" like the sound of you chambering a slug with a pump shotty)


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## rvl8

this is a similiar topic but, doesnt anyone make a holster you can mount in your car, or perhaps on the side of a wall/dresser ? the way I carry it would take a very long time to undo my seatbelt, pull up a shirt and get to my IWB holster. thanks


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## JeffWard

I have a holster mounted to the side of my truck seat, velcro-ed to the carpeting on the side. Cheapo XD-Gear holster. Works fine, and between the door and the door pocket, out of sight.

JW


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## m3coupe4me

"First, call 911. Then get your gun, which should be kept in a safe in the master bedroom. (He recommends a weapons safe, sold at the Bullet Hole, which has four large thumb pads on top. It's simple to unlock in the dark but keeps guns out of the hands of children and burglars.)

Pointing a revolver at the wall, Colandro demonstrates what he calls the vulture stance-shoulders hunched up, arms thrust forward, confronting the intruder.

"Don't move!" he shouts. "I got a gun! I'll blow your head off!"

In a crisis, Colandro explains, an authoritative voice and body language are as important as the gun itself. Even if the intruder is standing right in front of you, announce that you have a gun-it might be dark, the intruder could be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and in any case, the warning puts you in a better legal position.

"The best thing you could ever hope for is that the perpetrator breaks and flees," he says. "Nobody wants to use a firearm."

If the intruder doesn't flee, the next step is to bark out commands: "Sit on the ground! Lock your hands behind your head and stay there!"

Startled by Colandro's booming voice, a few customers turn to look. Colandro tells the couple, "It's gonna be very hard to [get the intruder to comply], especially if he's crazed."

*"So just shoot them," says Steven, a man of medium build with a few days of dirty-blonde stubble.

"No," Colandro says, with the barest hint of exasperation.

"Why not? They're in your house. You have every right to."

"But you're not in clear and imminent danger," Colandro says patiently.

"That's ridiculous," says Miriam. "If there's a stranger in my house, I'm gonna have to shoot them."

"I'm just telling you the law," Colandro says. "Prosecutor's gonna say, 'Why didn't you hit him with something? Why did you have to use deadly force?'"*

Steven is unfazed. "I'm not a lawyer," he says after the lesson, "but if someone breaks into my home, they're getting shot. Period.""

Excerpt from http://njmonthly.com/articles/lifestyle/people/gun-for-hire.html


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## Todd

m3coupe4me said:


> "First, call 911. Then get your gun, which should be kept in a safe in the master bedroom. (He recommends a weapons safe, sold at the Bullet Hole, which has four large thumb pads on top. It's simple to unlock in the dark but keeps guns out of the hands of children and burglars.)
> 
> Pointing a revolver at the wall, Colandro demonstrates what he calls the vulture stance-shoulders hunched up, arms thrust forward, confronting the intruder.
> 
> "Don't move!" he shouts. "I got a gun! I'll blow your head off!"
> 
> In a crisis, Colandro explains, an authoritative voice and body language are as important as the gun itself. Even if the intruder is standing right in front of you, announce that you have a gun-it might be dark, the intruder could be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and in any case, the warning puts you in a better legal position.
> 
> "The best thing you could ever hope for is that the perpetrator breaks and flees," he says. "Nobody wants to use a firearm."
> 
> If the intruder doesn't flee, the next step is to bark out commands: "Sit on the ground! Lock your hands behind your head and stay there!"
> 
> Startled by Colandro's booming voice, a few customers turn to look. Colandro tells the couple, "It's gonna be very hard to [get the intruder to comply], especially if he's crazed."
> 
> *"So just shoot them," says Steven, a man of medium build with a few days of dirty-blonde stubble.
> 
> "No," Colandro says, with the barest hint of exasperation.
> 
> "Why not? They're in your house. You have every right to."
> 
> "But you're not in clear and imminent danger," Colandro says patiently.
> 
> "That's ridiculous," says Miriam. "If there's a stranger in my house, I'm gonna have to shoot them."
> 
> "I'm just telling you the law," Colandro says. "Prosecutor's gonna say, 'Why didn't you hit him with something? Why did you have to use deadly force?'"*
> 
> Steven is unfazed. "I'm not a lawyer," he says after the lesson, "but if someone breaks into my home, they're getting shot. Period.""
> 
> Excerpt from http://njmonthly.com/articles/lifestyle/people/gun-for-hire.html


That guy sounds like a moron. People actually give this idiot money? "Don't move, I have a gun and I'm going to blow your head off!" Someone needs to tell Dirty Harry there to take a Quaalude.

Someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, they are not delivering my wife's Pampered Chef order. They know people are home and are looking for a conformation. I feared for my safety and for that of my family. The only sound/warning they are going to hear is "Boom, boom, boom."


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## m3coupe4me

Todd said:


> That guy sounds like a moron. People actually give this idiot money? "Don't move, I have a gun and I'm going to blow your head off!" Someone needs to tell Dirty Harry there to take a Quaalude.
> 
> Someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, they are not delivering my wife's Pampered Chef order. They know people are home and are looking for a conformation. I feared for my safety and for that of my family. The only sound/warning they are going to hear is "Boom, boom, boom."


Yes, but you can't just shoot an intruder in your home in NJ. Clear and imminent danger. He's right, you can be prosecuted and face penalties. Just points out the bass ackwards gun laws here. I talked to a gun owner at work who says his handgun is thee last thing he'd use to defend his family in such an event. Turn the lights on, make your presence known, call 911, etc.


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## toolboxluis

i don't own a shotgun yet but i wood go for my trusty FNP-9 and my wife go for her glock 19 :numbchuck::numbchuck::numbchuck: and worst come to worst then the AR-15 comes out :smt023:smt023


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## Todd

m3coupe4me said:


> Yes, but you can't just shoot an intruder in your home in NJ. Clear and imminent danger.


Anyone who breaks into my house in the middle of the night, continues to come in after the alarm is going off, is a clear and imminent danger to myself and my family.


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## m3coupe4me

Todd said:


> Anyone who breaks into my house in the middle of the night, continues to come in after the alarm is going off, is a clear and imminent danger to myself and my family.


Yes, makes sense. But not in NJ.


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## unpecador

m3coupe4me said:


> I talked to a gun owner at work who says his handgun is thee last thing he'd use to defend his family in such an event. Turn the lights on, make your presence known, call 911, etc.


My gun would be the very first thing I would have ready to use to defend myself and my family against an intruder, everything else is supplemental and would depend on the scenario.


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## Rhino

My M4gery sits next to my bed with one in the chamber and safety on


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## unpecador

See *LAWS and CONSTITUTION - Statutes - 2C:3-4 Use of force in self-protection.*

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/

... c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

(2)A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

(a)The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

(b)The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

(3)An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.


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## unpecador

I chose 9mm, that's what I own. I also own a 20 ga pistol grip shotgun and wouldn't mind having that in my hands as well but the handgun(s) is easier to access among other reasons.


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## Ptarmigan

I choose my phone. If I am convinced that someone is in my house, the first thing I am going to do is to call 911. 

I will arm myself with a handgun (9mm or .38 since that is what we have) and stay in the bedroom while announcing to the bad guy(s) that the police is on the way, that we are armed and to get the heck out of our house. 

If the bad guy(s) attempt to enter the bedroom, we will move to cover and again make him/her/them aware that we are armed and that we will defend ourselves. If he/she/they enter the room and pose a threat of death or great bodily injury to either my wife or I, the legal criteria for use of deadly force is met according to Nebraska law and I will fire in order to stop the threat.

If I know there is someone in my house I will not go looking for them. Clearing a house alone is a bad idea and I will leave that to the police. I have cleared enough buildings to last me a lifetime.


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## unpecador

To each his own. Although calling 911 would be on my mind, time may be of the essence. Criminals don't abide by the law, they cheat. The goal is to protect myself and my family, not necessarily to meet any legal criteria.


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## z3ro06

id grab my slippers 

just kidding

1: 911
2: GF - get her somewhere hidden
3: handgun
4: 911 again


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## TheTreeWiseMen

Todd said:


> Anyone who breaks into my house in the middle of the night, continues to come in after the alarm is going off, is a clear and imminent danger to myself and my family.


Agreed! And that means it's Mossberg 590 time.


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## Ward Tood

*Home defense*

I voted for my 45, but a few feet away in the closet is a Winchester 97 riot gun that I have owned for 43 years. When you rack it you don't have to know a lot about weapons to know that sound means business. It stays loaded with #00 buck. If someone breaks in to my home, I am going to shoot to kill. I am NOT going to wait around to see if they are intent on causing harm to my wife or me. If they hear the 97 being racked, they will no longer need ears as they won't have a head to put them on. I REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM!!


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## Ptarmigan

I am no expert on Idaho law, but I am under the impression that Texas is the only state in which one can legally use deadly force to protect property. Under what law can you shoot someone for breaking into your house in Idaho?

I am not trying to start an argument but I would like to know.


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## Fred40

Sorry, I have not read every one of these. Is there a consensus about turning on lights?

Our bedrooms are upstairs. Seems to me "if" I hear someone downstairs that I should at least turn on the hall lights upstairs and then pick an ambush spot. Our upstairs has a balcony area that would flood some light to the main living room downstairs. This might be enough to get him (them) to flee the scene. If they (he) are demented enough to come upstairs after that, then it's shoot first and ask latter.


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## Mike Barham

I don't know that there is a consensus on the forum, but the consensus in the overall firearms training community is to use the house lights if you can. It gives you much better field of view and situational awareness than using a flashlight, with its comparatively small cone of illumination. You also don't have to juggle a light plus your gun, if you don't have a dedicated weaponlight.

I know, I know, Surefire (who of course stands to make money from the concept) rattles on about the "wall of light" and using "light as a weapon." This works reasonably well in an offensive mode, as when clearing a structure with a military fire team or on a SWAT raid. But a lone home defender is better off with house lights.

I keep a Surefire light nearby at night, but my general plan is to use the house lights if at all possible. The house lights coming on, perhaps combined with the racking of a shotgun, would be a strong signal to most criminals that they should vacate the residence post haste. And if they don't, well, I am now in an excellent position to shoot them with minimal danger to myself or family members.


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## tekhead1219

Fred40 said:


> Sorry, I have not read every one of these. Is there a consensus about turning on lights?


+1 Fred, I plan on turning on lights. Two reasons, one - it might be enough to scare off the intruder, and 2 - gives me a better sight picture if it doesn't.
:smt071


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## Ptarmigan

I, too, plan to turn on as many lights in the house as I can. I keep a flashlight handy too but I would much rather have the house lights on in case of having to fire my weapon.


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## unpecador

Nobody is going to be able to walk on my wood floors without making creaking sounds at some point. The entire floor throughout the house does not creak but enough scattered areas do to where an intruder would have to know specific routes to avoid the creaking if in fact being quiet is a concern. I have a dog that stays inside at night and most of the day, not a good attack dog but good for barking when anybody is around the perimeter of the house.


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## Ward Tood

*Idaho Law??*

To answer Ptarmigan's question as to what Idaho law says I can "shoot to kill " if somone breaks into my home, at the time of the break in all laws go out the window, except the law of " survival ."


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## Mike Barham

Ward Tood said:


> at the time of the break in all laws go out the window, except the law of " survival ."


Well, we always advocate acting within the bounds of the law, which is usually quite reasonable when it comes to home defense. There is seldom a need to act outside the law, especially in states with Castle Doctrine or similar.

We do not have to necessarily cede all advantage to our opponents. Rather, with proper planning, we can control, contain and perhaps even dominate the encounter.

_"Man fights with his mind. His hands and his weapons are merely extensions of his will."_ - Jeff Cooper


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## Ptarmigan

Ward Tood said:


> To answer Ptarmigan's question as to what Idaho law says I can "shoot to kill " if somone breaks into my home, at the time of the break in all laws go out the window, except the law of " survival ."


That is an interesting way at looking at it. To each their own.


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## unpecador

Here is a good reason why someone should never consider throwing _all_ laws out the window...


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## Ward Tood

*Shoot to kill*

I am confused. A couple of you are hard balling me because of my " shoot to kill " statement yet you say you would arm yourself and do whatever you had to in order to protect yourself and your family. Is it because I used the word " kill "? Is it because I didn't stop to call 911 or turn on my lights or tell the BG to " Get the heck out of my house " ??? If I fire on a BG I am NOT going to try and " wing " him so he can possibly KILL me. I am going to try and put him down and protect me and my family!! I am sure if you had to, you would "shoot to kill ."


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## unpecador

I don't care what you do or how you handle an intruder situation, I never stated that I would disregard all laws and for me to make that claim would be absurd.

Please provide evidence of Idaho law that states you can shoot to kill if someone breaks into your home and at the time of break in all laws go out the window except the law of survival.


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## Ptarmigan

Ward Tood,

I certainly do not think I am "hard balling" you but if that is how you are taking it, I apologize. Also, my issue is not so much with your "shoot to kill" statement although I personally would use "shoot to stop the threat." Minor issue as far as I am concerned.

My concern is that you seem to openly admit that you intend to disregard the law if someone were to break into your house. On one hand I give you credit for being so honest, on the other, and maybe it is the cop in me, I am bothered by statements that would indicate that the writer would willingly and knowingly break the law.

If I am misunderstanding something, again, I apologize.


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## zhurdan

Ward Tood said:


> I am confused. A couple of you are hard balling me because of my " shoot to kill " statement yet you say you would arm yourself and do whatever you had to in order to protect yourself and your family.


I think it's because I don't want anything associated with me or my pseudoname to ever be used in court showing that "I'll just kill the bugger". Rather, If it came to the courts after a shooting, I'd have them pull the transcripts off these sites showing that I'd shoot COM because it's the easiest way to stop the threat, or end the confrontation, or provide safety and security for my family. On the other hand, if I were to be involved in a shooting and they pulled these transcripts, and I'd done nothing but say that "shoot 'em in the brain box" or "use these super killer dum-dum rounds", I might have a more difficult time defending my actions.
And don't think for a second that you have anonymity on the interwebs, a lawyer would find your posts here.

Zhur

Disclaimer: The use of you, your, yours and we are all generic terms, not directed at anyone for any particular purpose.


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## Mike Barham

zhurdan said:


> And don't think for a second that you have anonymity on the interwebs, a lawyer would find your posts here.[/SIZE]


Correct. It would be a very simple matter to track a person by their IP address. Goofy posts might not get you convicted, but they could potentially make a jury cast a jaundiced eye on a defendant.


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## Fred40

Ward Tood said:


> I am confused. A couple of you are hard balling me because of my " shoot to kill " statement yet you say you would arm yourself and do whatever you had to in order to protect yourself and your family. Is it because I used the word " kill "? Is it because I didn't stop to call 911 or turn on my lights or tell the BG to " Get the heck out of my house " ??? If I fire on a BG I am NOT going to try and " wing " him so he can possibly KILL me. I am going to try and put him down and protect me and my family!! I am sure if you had to, you would "shoot to kill ."


I think the discrepancy is "Shoot to Kill". Really it should be "Shoot to Stop". If Stop happens to = kill then so be it, but your intent should be to STOP the intruder.


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## JeffWard

Great.... I started this thread, so now I'll be getting a subpoena some day...

LOL

I'm okay. My brother's an estate planning attorney in NY...

JW


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## wjh2657

My housegun is a S&W 60 and would be the gun I reach for. My best bet half asleep, is a gun I am really familiar with and my J Frames are what i practice with the most. I own 3 12 guages but I think that is a whole lot of gun to be swinging around in a bedroom and is going to be messy! I have the snubbie, cell phone and a Surefire Tactical flashlight laying right alongside the telephone on my nightstand. The drill is hit ADT panic button, get behind bed, wife calls 911 and I take good aim at bedroom door. KISS prevails. Last time alarm went off by accident it took Sheriffs car less than 5 minutes to reach house (we have substation less than a mile away from house.) I also have substantial doors and storm doors. Windows are high off ground and would take a lot of effort to break.


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## BigMatt

It would have to be the 357 snubnose that I keep in the nightstand since the glock is locked up in the closet. BUt I think my 90 pound boxer is my best method of home defense. But in all seriousness before I ever even reached for my gun I would as QUICKLY as humanly possible get my 4 year old daughter out of bed and get her in the room with me and my wife and have the two of them hide in the closet THEN I would grab the gun. I just think I would need both hands free to properly carry and SHIELD my daughter from harm, If I get shot then so be it but she would be my main concern.


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## Merlin45

*Which gun?*

Been readin all the posts......Maybe I'm lucky to be livin in the great state of Oklahoma.....We voted on "The Castle Doctrine" last year. Bad guy(if he lives,) can't sue ya....nor can a family member. You break into my house, OR trespass in ANY way on my property....you be DRT....I promise. I use a Mossberg 590 12-gauge 8 shot. Surefire light mounted. I also have a Taurus PT 24/7 Pro in .45....Springfield XP light. Both are within arms length from my bed. I don't "rack one" if I hear a noise. The only warning the bad guy gets.....is posted on my outside window...."Don't worry about the dog....Beware of the owner!"......And I don't CARE what happens in a court of law!. Laws in your state may differ, and I don't recommend, nor advocate, any of my personal views, to say that everyones situation is as mine. I have no family members to worry about, as in one of my kids, or someone coming home late, and such.

"Train like you fight"


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## Merlin45

*Wait for LE????*



drummin man 627 said:


> Of your choices, the .45. I don't have one,so it would be my .357. Just as important, the cell phone. I live approx 2/10s of a mile from the Sheriffs Dept. If I called and mentioned I was armed and hearing an intruder, they'd be here A.S.A.P.


I have a scenario for you. Get a steak from the fridge....put a steak knife beside it. Call 911, and start stabbing the steak...Continue stabbing steak until Law Enforcement arrives.....Look at steak.....THAT is you, or your loved one. A cell phone is a good idea.....ONLY as an "After action" method.


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## tboone

Well, as of last week, my roommate reached for his Glock 23 and I reached for my XD40SC w/ extended mag. Both of us had Surefires, although a decent number of the appt lights were on.


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## lostsoul

12 gauge,finish him off with .45 and a glass of wine.


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## zhurdan

lostsoul said:


> 12 gauge,finish him off with .45 and a glass of wine.


Great idea...

"Sir, why is the bullet from the exit wound to his head stuck in the floor under him, as if you stood over him and finished him off. Wait, have you been drinking?" Click-click yay handcuffs.

On a side note... I had a scary little thing happen the other night. Was awakened to a loud crash. The dogs went nuts. Startled, I reached for my pistol (Glock 32c) and then reached for my wifes arm to get her out of the way, only to realize she wasn't in bed. I then heard a resounding "Sh%t, sorry that was me". She had gotten up to use the bathroom and tripped over a small table we have in the hallway.

So, the first thing that I will reach for from now on is my wife. Being in a startled state, with the loud noise, dogs barking like crazy, I very well could have thought that the person in the dark was a BG had I not reached to move my wife off the bed and into the corner. I'm just glad I reached for her before getting too antzy in the pantzy. Lesson learned.

Zhur


----------



## lostsoul

In reality,I would grab my 12 gauge and my cell phone,while my wife would grab my G30.Then we would have that glass of wine.:smt023


----------



## unpecador

lostsoul said:


> In reality,I would grab my 12 gauge and my cell phone,while my wife would grab my G30.Then we would have that glass of wine.:smt023


So you'll have a cell phone in one hand and a shotgun in the other... then what?


----------



## Mike Barham

Phone use is one reason a handgun is often superior to a long gun for home defense. Home defense involves actual shooting in only a minority of cases. Chasing off an intruder or holding him for the cops is much more common.


----------



## lostsoul

unpecador said:


> So you'll have a cell phone in one hand and a shotgun in the other... then what?


I'll throw the phone at him and shoot my wife,then,we will have that wine!


----------



## lostsoul

Ok,ok,so much for humor and wishful thinking.I love dogs,have had one,or two at a time for the past thirty years.First line of defence,dog,grab the 12 gauge while alerting my wife,wife heads for cover while dialing 911.The floor plan of our home is quite unique.You can't blind side me or my wife.The problem is my concern for my dog.My wife is safe,my children are adults and on longer live with us.I will shout out his odds on survival and should he harm my dog,no odds of surviveing.Hopefully,he will beat feet out-a here.----NOW---CAN I HAVE MY *%#$*ING WINE ! ?:smt076


----------



## SGTRick1775

1911


----------



## unpecador

lostsoul said:


> I'll throw the phone at him and shoot my wife,then,we will have that wine!


Funny, demented but funny.


----------



## lostsoul

*Just a little humor.*

I love my wife,my country,my dogs,and my rights.I'm 56 years young ,faithful to my wife,country,and my fellow man.Anybody who has been personally violated would understand the rage.My humor,I apologize,I'm am a product of influences and inviornment.I've learned to laugh at just about anything.Like many ,I've had a complex and difficult life at times and crying -vs-laughing,I'll laugh.:mrgreen: the wine,I'm not a wino,but after I change my shorts,I'll probibly need something to calm down,don't need no heartattack.-I will try to put a leash on my humor but that's going to be really,really tough.:mrgreen:


----------



## zhurdan

It's never a matter of putting a leash on one's humor, but think of it like this...

If someone who isn't as seasoned as some, reads what you have to say, then does that very thing (ie. finish him off with the .45) they would be in a world of trouble vs. something like "I'd grab my wife and pistol, retreat to a defensible position and call the police." No need to mention blasting a bad guy that might come back to bite you in court because you can bet your bottom dollar (and you would be) that the attorneys will dig up every stinking bit of information on you, including what you post on internet forums and make you out to be a gun toting, wine drinking, poor poor victim killer. 

In this day and age where people are pretty much connected to their online life just as much as they are connected to their normal everyday life, it pays to be vague at times.

Zhur


----------



## lostsoul

zhurdan said:


> It's never a matter of putting a leash on one's humor, but think of it like this...
> 
> If someone who isn't as seasoned as some, reads what you have to say, then does that very thing (ie. finish him off with the .45) they would be in a world of trouble vs. something like "I'd grab my wife and pistol, retreat to a defensible position and call the police." No need to mention blasting a bad guy that might come back to bite you in court because you can bet your bottom dollar (and you would be) that the attorneys will dig up every stinking bit of information on you, including what you post on internet forums and make you out to be a gun toting, wine drinking, poor poor victim killer.
> 
> In this day and age where people are pretty much connected to their online life just as much as they are connected to their normal everyday life, it pays to be vague at times.
> 
> Zhur


I quite agree.:mrgreen:


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## Willy D

What I would most likely do is grab my 45..I keep it under the bed. Next to the bed I keep a fully charged small very bright LED flashlight and my cell phone. On the nightstand next to that is my landline phone. I would probably pick that phone up and dial 911 and lay the phone down. I would think that if 911 call comes in from my address that they would send someone over to check it. I would listen carefully to see if I could determine who was in my house and how many. Hopefully after a short time, my eyes would have adjusted to the darkness and I could get a good view of someone coming up the stairs. I would get on the floor next to the bed as to keep the bed between me and the door. I sleep with my bedroom door open. I could get in a position where I am behind the bed looking diagonally across the room out the door and straight at the stairway from down stairs. I live by myself in a 3 bedroom townhouse..Bedrooms all upstairs. I am a light sleeper so just opening my front or back door should wake me..

I am not sure if I would venture from that spot at least for a few minutes. If I determine that this is me getting robbed I would have to make the decision as to going to see or staying to see if they come to me...Lotta factors. If the door was broken into versus just opened that woud tell me it was unfriendly invasion...Only two other people have a key to my house and they know I keep a loaded gun. If I see them I should be able to know if it is one of them..If it is not chances are good the person will get shot.

Someone breaks through a deadbolt and comes in uninvited with bad intent it will be their choice that they were shot...We have castle doctrine in Indiana


----------



## oak1971

I sleep with either my Les Baer loaded with 230 grain jhp 45 acp. or Ruger Security Six loaded with 38 +p. I have a PT 99 9mm nearby as well. Both my Armalite's in .223 and 308 are a few steps away. I usually have a 44 mag lying about someplace too. 1 smith 629 1 taurus. Whoever busts in my house will not be walking out again. I think I need a shot gun.....


----------



## SenorJefe

160 lb. Great Dane at entry way.

then
.45ACP 230gr


----------



## ghost stang

I have to go with my .45 but I have my Shotty really close too.


----------



## Mamps

How about some rock salt loaded into high powder 12 ga shells!!! No need to kill the BG you want him to appreciate the crime that he has made. The only thing that hurts worse than getting a little salt in a wound is getting a lot of salt into a little wound.
plus you could rough him up a little until the PoPo gets there.
just my 2 cents


----------



## Todd

Mamps said:


> How about some rock salt loaded into high powder 12 ga shells!!! No need to kill the BG you want him to appreciate the crime that he has made. The only thing that hurts worse than getting a little salt in a wound is getting a lot of salt into a little wound.


Have fun explaining that logic at the civil suit. "No, I didn't shoot to stop the threat and use conventional ammunition. Instead I used my own special load to maim and inflict the most pain I could."



Mamps said:


> plus you could rough him up a little until the PoPo gets there.


1) That would be illegal. If the threat has been stopped, you can't re-escalate it by battering the guy while he's down. You'd be going to jail with the guy.

I guess it's time for my all to frequent reminder to all that WE DON'T DISCUSS ILLEGAL ACTIVITY ON THE FORUM. http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=11796

2) It's comments like that that make gun owners look like jackasses looking for a fight instead of people who just want to enjoy the sport of shooting and have the ability to defend their families and themselves.

Any more comments like this and the thread is done.


----------



## Mike Barham

Just to get the thread back on track after that ghastly detour into criminally-violent fantasy, I just de-ninjafied a shorty Winchester 1300 and put it in the walk-in bedroom closet. It came to me with just a pistol grip, but I put a normal stock on it and loaded it with buckshot. No other silly accessories, just a simple, fast-handling fighting shotgun.

It augments the two Glock 9mms in the nightstand drawer.


----------



## abpt1




----------



## dbarnett0311

Rem. 870 next the bed.


----------



## zhurdan

abpt1 said:


>


Really? That's what you'd reach for first? Right outta the bubble wrap? I'd hope you've function fired it about 1000 times before trusting that it'll function when you want it to. Yeah, I know "AK's are the most rugged, functional weapon..." and I own two of them. But unless it's put together well, it may very well be a turd. Please, if you haven't, go function test that baby for a few 1000 rounds before you reach for it, unless it's all you've got.

Zhur


----------



## Mike Barham

Heh, that "bin Laden Special" AK pistol is one of the very last guns I'd want an ambitious DA to wave in front of a jury. I'll stick with my simple pump shotgun and a Glock. :mrgreen:


----------



## Wandering Man

Mike Barham said:


> Heh, that "bin Laden Special" AK pistol is one of the very last guns I'd want an ambitious DA *to wave in front of a jury*. I'll stick with my simple pump shotgun and a Glock. :mrgreen:


What? Afraid he might accidently take out the jury? :smt082

WM


----------



## Mike Barham

Wandering Man said:


> What? Afraid he might accidently take out the jury? :smt082
> 
> WM


At least then I could get a mistrial. :mrgreen:


----------



## zhurdan

Please note, I was not condoning the use of the AK pistol for home defense, just noting that the poster answered the Topic question of "What would you reach for?" with that picture and it is a picture of a spanking new AK pistol, right outta the bubble rap. My post was more about if he was seriously going to trust a brand spanking new pistol. A brand new pistol of any make/model isn't really a good idea, unless it's all you have. Granted, the picture could have been taken long ago, so that's why I cajolled him about function firing it first. 

I think it would be a legal nightmare, as you do Mike, to have to defend yourself in court having used that for self defense. The AK's I own are for fun, not defense. I'd stated before that it'd be pretty much things in this order...

1. Grab wife
2. Grab pistol
3. Grab phone
4. Grab some cover
and probably
5. Grab some clean underwear

Zhur


----------



## BeefyBeefo

zhurdan said:


> I think it would be a legal nightmare, as you do Mike, to have to defend yourself in court having used that for self defense.


I agree.

I also think that this is true for a lot of other guns, the AR included.

-Jeff-


----------



## Mike Barham

*Zhur*, you left out:

6. Grab attorney's business card.


----------



## tekhead1219

Mike Barham said:


> *Zhur*, you left out:
> 
> 6. Grab attorney's business card.


That's who he's hiding from!!:anim_lol:


----------



## dbarnett0311

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet (too many posts to read them all), but with a shotgun you have the ability to use the weapon itself as a defensive measure. Those who have served are at a greater advantage with a longer barreled weapon, possibly, because of the training involved with retention and defense. All these scenarios, planning, and dreaming are going to be bursting bubbles when the real time situation occurs anyway. Those who know what I'm talking about can vouch for the fact that the plan that usually works is the one that you come up with while executing it. It is good to have a plan though, just know that it won't really go down like that. Sorry for the rant... I still vote for my shotgun, or any shouldered weapon.


----------



## bprince04305

40 cal sigma hopefully i actually wake up for the knock.


----------



## curmudgeon8

The .45 Colt Commander with night sights works for me.


----------



## JeffWard

Mike Barham said:


> It augments the two Glock 9mms in the nightstand drawer.


I guess a second loaded gun is faster than a second mag... 

JeffWard


----------



## sig09

9mm sig with 15rounds in the mag. winchester 127 jhp


----------



## mike#9

Not to get off topic...but spin the scenario in question 180*. The intruder already has broken in and is currently in the house. You come home, and he is already in the house. Now.....he can hear you, and find an ambush spot in the hall. Basically do all the above that we have been talking about.....but now the tables are turned, and he now has the upper hand. What do you guys do when entering your house. Also, how do you prep the house for a safe re-entry.

And by the way. The 1968 colt .45 government issue is in the nightstand, and the 870 pump 12 ga. is within arms reach, and so is the cell phone.


----------



## cavie187

given the choices I would crouch behind the bed with the 12 gauge aimed at the door.


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## Todd

mike#9 said:


> Not to get off topic...but spin the scenario in question 180*. The intruder already has broken in and is currently in the house. You come home, and he is already in the house. Now.....he can hear you, and find an ambush spot in the hall. Basically do all the above that we have been talking about.....but now the tables are turned, and he now has the upper hand. What do you guys do when entering your house. Also, how do you prep the house for a safe re-entry.


Might be better as a separate "spin-off" thread, so this one stays on track and doesn't try to go two separate directions.


----------



## JeffWard

mike#9 said:


> Not to get off topic...but spin the scenario in question 180*. The intruder already has broken in and is currently in the house. You come home, and he is already in the house. Now.....he can hear you, and find an ambush spot in the hall. Basically do all the above that we have been talking about.....but now the tables are turned, and he now has the upper hand. What do you guys do when entering your house. Also, how do you prep the house for a safe re-entry.
> 
> And by the way. The 1968 colt .45 government issue is in the nightstand, and the 870 pump 12 ga. is within arms reach, and so is the cell phone.


Sorry for perpetuating a hijack of my OWN thread... but if I come home, and there's a bad-guy there, and there's no other loved ones in the house...

I'm leaving, taking up position with cover outside the house, and calling the cops.

There's nothing inside my house worth giving my life for... I'll be a great witness when he leaves. Hopefully, the cops will be there before he does.

Don't go looking for a gun fight. NO, I don't have an assult plan for my own house...

JeffWard


----------



## mike#9

JeffWard said:


> Sorry for perpetuating a hijack of my OWN thread... but if I come home, and there's a bad-guy there, and there's no other loved ones in the house...
> 
> I'm leaving, taking up position with cover outside the house, and calling the cops.
> 
> There's nothing inside my house worth giving my life for... I'll be a great witness when he leaves. Hopefully, the cops will be there before he does.
> 
> Don't go looking for a gun fight. NO, I don't have an assult plan for my own house...
> 
> JeffWard


Sorry about the spin on the original topic. But the main focus I getting at was....once you enter your home........and the BG is already in, and you get ambushed.

The main topic, and the spin that I put in it......are both bad scenarios to be in, and I would hope that nobody is looking for a fight. Nonetheless, they both happen, and it is good that we are talking about it. There have been lots of good points brought up, and some things that I never even thought about.

Thanks to everyone for their responses and keep them coming.


----------



## nky1129

Glock 19 in the office across the hall from the bedroom. Rem 870 12 gauge super mag loaded with buckshot in the bedroom closet.

Reacting to a night-time intruder, I would:

1. Hand my phone to my girlfriend and have her hide on the floor behind the bed and call 911.

2. Grab the 870 and peek through the bedroom door down the stairs.

3. Wait for my 90 pound weimaraner to come to the bottom of the stairs with a chunk of the intruder's backside in his mouth (his personal "all clear" sign of choice).

Although, in all honesty, I'd rather the intruder just take whatever he wants downstairs and leave. The girl and the dog are all I really care about in the house. Unfortunately, convincing a dog (who really doesn't like people coming in the house unannounced) to hide in the bedroom would be just about impossible. So, for now, this is my #1 method of defense:


----------



## ruining

All I have is a S&W 59 9mm, so I would go for that. I've got it under the mattress and the loaded clip in my top dresser drawer, ( I have a toddler that sleeps in the same room, and this will have to do until the safe arrives). I've also got a .30-30, but the neighbors live too near by. I'd hate to take one of them out, should I miss.

I have an 85 lb Staffordshire/Lab mix that sleeps with us. I would have my wife and son hide under the bed with a cell phone, calling the police and the dog and I would sit in the hallway with the 59 and wait until authorities or the intruder arrive.










He looks terrifying, right?


----------



## Drake69

Beretta M9, though I still need my wife to learn how to shoot it.


----------



## bowhuntpa

XD45ACP with sure fire mounted. The 15 rounds of .45 and a blinding surefire is hard to beat, Remington 1100 combat is a very close 2nd only because the flashlight factor, a surefire mount on my 1100 is not a bad idea now that you mention it.


----------



## Ptarmigan

nky1129 said:


> Although, in all honesty, I'd rather the intruder just take whatever he wants downstairs and leave. The girl and the dog are all I really care about in the house.


:smt023


----------



## HRO923

I go for my Beretta 96 (40cal) with hollow points.


----------



## 0mattellis0

45. My dog will alert us first though. So I'll know something is up even before the bump.


----------



## spacedoggy

* A bump in the night... What do you reach for?

My wife
*


----------



## Angus

Whichever I think I could get to more stealthily.. If I had a choice of getting to either as quietly as the other, shotgun.. Definitely. cha-chick!


----------



## usmamg

Xd9


----------



## oak1971

These are within reach at all times.


----------



## Desertrat

I agree with nky....I also have a 90 lb. Weimaraner, see my avatar....and hope that she would take a piece out of any intruder before I had to level the shotgun on them, or meet them in the hallway and press a handgun barrel into their ear......and don't forget the blinding tactical flashlight to the eyeballs first......


----------



## JeffWard

Since I opened this post... in August... 212 responses ago....

A little has changed in my own answer.

I now have a M&P PRO, that is THIRD in home defense (24 rounds of Ranger T +P with mag extension)...

My second choice is my M&P9c (carry gun) soon to be wearing night-sights, and also sporting 24 rounds of Ranger T +P with a mag sleeve (Why not... in the nightstand)

My first choice? Still the 18" Remington 870 12 with 7 rounds of Fiochi Reduced Recoil 00-Buck.

Oh yeah... I forgot... My house-mate owns an 85lb Pit Bull (Jo-Jo), and a 100lb American Bulldog (Bishop).... Never mind... I'll just roll over an go back to sleep... Clean up the mess in the morning.

This one is Bishop... Yes, he's really 100 lbs. I'm 240+








Jeff


----------



## .45StayAlive

First, meet Safeway:










Safeway was trained at the German Police Dog Academy in Kiel, Germany. He passed with flying colors. If an intruder were to break into our home, Safeway would be the first to greet him.

Normally, upon hearing the sounds of digestion occuring down the hall, I'd reach for my Kimber .45 (with X-300 light) and then make my way to the closet to get my Winchester 12 Gauge (also with a Surefire light) and then make my way to view the carnage. But since I loaned my Shotgun to a neighbor who recently experienced a home invasion (yes, as we found out, it doesn't just happen to people on the TV news), I'd probably make my way to the carnage that was once a scumbag criminal with just my .45. I could stop by the bedroom closet and grab my Winchester 30/30 but I doubt I'd bother - I think the .45 is a better in-home weapon (not that I think I'd need the weapon - I'd just need the light on it to find what's left of the scumbag).

Best wishes,

.45StayAlive


----------



## .45StayAlive

Hey Jeff,

This is pretty cool! I had just read through the first page in this thread before making my contribution - now as my post came up after I posted it, I see you have a "dog post" as well!

The irony for both of us is, any criminal that does his homework is NOT going to be stopping by our places. From a selfish point of view, that's just great to me - but the better part of me wishes I could have the chance to bring the Gene Pool up a bit...

John (.45StayAlive)


----------



## Pat Az

Since it is just my wife and I ,it would be the shottie hamging on the bed.


----------



## mustnggt619

Personally i would grab the 12 guage. 45 as a close second/


----------



## dbarnett0311

I keep an 870 next to the bed these days.... I guess the intended plan would be to:
1. Grab the 870
2. Dial 911
3. stay in the room with door unlocked, and hope it doesn't open
4. I guess this one doesn't really matter, because at this point the SNAFU, and Murphy is working overtime....

In my master I keep the firearms that matter most to me though: Sig P245, P226, and P229; mt colt model 1903, Beretta (Troopers retirement model), an old CZ from 1940's, Rem 870, and Browning Gold... The rest are in a safe, but of those I would grab whatever I needed when I needed, a do it by proximity I guess... This is a hard question to answer if you don't have Fido to chew some meat and scare off intruders.


----------



## ProjectCamaro

I go a little overboard but family safty is the most important thing to me. I have camera's by the front and back doors and two in the house. When I go to bed upstairs I set the alarm downstairs which is wired to the doors, window's, and has motion, temprature, and sonic decectors.
Of course some people can work around alarms so I keep a Glock on the first level and a 1911 on the second level in my bedroom.


----------



## Hollander

12 guage 18" pump with buckshot in master bath. Sig pro2022 in night stand. S&W .38sp in dresser. If the door is kicked in, BG will not see the sunrise and all of us will not have to pay for him.


----------



## firefighterwall

But if you're being attacked, how do you pop the badguy without being convicted yourself of murder or manslaughter?

What if the idiots in court rule that you should've fled instead of shot?

I don't know how this stuff works, tells me I need to take a few classes on gun laws in VA. Don't need to end up in jail because I was defending my family, because I sure as hell won't hesitate to blow someone away who is intent on harming my family.


----------



## Todd

firefighterwall said:


> But if you're being attacked, how do you pop the badguy without being convicted yourself of murder or manslaughter?


It's called self-defense. If you believe that you, or someone else, is in a situation of immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm, you have the right under law to use deadly force to repel the attack.



firefighterwall said:


> What if the idiots in court rule that you should've fled instead of shot?


I'm in my house, middle of the night, someone kicks in my door. The BG keeps coming, ignoring the house alarm and me hollering I have called the police, I am armed, and will defend myself. I end up shooting the SOB, cleared criminally, but sued civilly because the family says I could have fled and not turned their beloved, misunderstood, crack addict into a rotting biohazard on my floor. I certainly hope that any reasonable and prudent person on the jury would realize that gathering my family and heaving them out the second floor window is not an option and the only thing I could do was call 911 and hold my ground. If they didn't agree, it's called an appeal. If that doesn't work, I'm screwed, but my wife and kids are still alive.


----------



## babs

... Good Lord what a dog!!! :mrgreen: Beautiful pooch!! I'd hate to see his grocery bills. hehehehehe

But on the subject of laws and DForce in the home.. I would advise all, be very very familiar with the laws in your state pertaining to the use of force in your home and castle doctrine, etc etc. I can imagine they'd vary quite a bit state to state. Though Todd, I agree with your philosophy whole-heartedly. :smt1099 Tried by 12 being better than a friendly or yourself being buried by 6. I'm guessing in most reasonable states, the key thing is knowing the legal protocol's up to that point and maintaining your stance as the law-abiding defending victim and not the aggressor.

hehehe.. sorry.. Just took the cc class and the castle doctrine stuff has been rolling through my noggin ever since. :mrgreen: I find it fascinating in a weird "wish I went to law school" sorta way.


----------



## firefighterwall

Todd said:


> It's called self-defense. If you believe that you, or someone else, is in a situation of immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm, you have the right under law to use deadly force to repel the attack.
> 
> I'm in my house, middle of the night, someone kicks in my door. The BG keeps coming, ignoring the house alarm and me hollering I have called the police, I am armed, and will defend myself. I end up shooting the SOB, cleared criminally, but sued civilly because the family says I could have fled and not turned their beloved, misunderstood, crack addict into a rotting biohazard on my floor. I certainly hope that any reasonable and prudent person on the jury would realize that gathering my family and heaving them out the second floor window is not an option and the only thing I could do was call 911 and hold my ground. If they didn't agree, it's called an appeal. If that doesn't work, I'm screwed, but my wife and kids are still alive.


Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.


----------



## BigSkiff

I grab my 870 tactical shotgun first, and also my .45 Glock with a laser sight. I am adequately trained in the use of either. For me, and actually for most people, point shooting in the dark even with a flashlight, is easier with a shotgun. The real key to defending yourself in the scenario described by the OP is training and practice. Learn how to use your tools!


----------



## JackCrow

Well if my boxer is unsuccessful in explaining her displeasure at having her beauty rest interrupted I'm sure my S&W M19 can take it from there. :mrgreen:


----------



## akr

JeffWard said:


> From a sound sleep, you hear that "thump" downstairs... the tinkling sound of breaking glass on the entry rug... and the deadbolt goes ca-chunk...
> 
> Within steps of the bed, are:
> 
> 1) The 12 Gauge Pump w/ buckshot in the closet,
> 2) The .45 ACP in the nightstand, or
> 3) The 9mm/38 Special in your pants pocket, hanging on the door.
> 
> Which one do you grab?


The shotgun


----------



## mtlmgc

Since I have a child in the house, my carry gun the 92fs, everything else stays secured. Gun #2-18 1/2" Mariner w/ pistol grip; gun #3- Blackhawk in 45Colt, it only has 6 rounds but with 230gr Goldots @ 1100 fps it will only take one. As much as I like the 92 it's hard to beat the accuracy of point and shoot with a single action revolver at close range.:draw:


----------



## ccwrider

45auto & aus sheperd


----------



## Rounder1106

Hands down the Mossberg 500 with 00 buck with the Glock 23 very close buy if he/she gets past the shotty while my wife is holding the Glock 26 with a 33 round clip in there on the phone to the police. Not to mention 2 yellow labs who really hate being disturbed :smt076 during their sleep at the foot of our bed.

BG needs to go mess with some anti-gun liberal......not my family.


----------



## Benevolentshooter

I keep a remington 870 that i outfitted with an 18 1\2" barrel flash suppressor tactical pistol grip forend and pistol grip retractable stock. I also uped the cappacity to 8 which i keeped stagered with bird then 00 buck. First shot blinds and mutilates them second puts them back out in the front yard. Thats what i would go for. I have a glock 40. but shotguns are better in this situation in my opinion. I have never had to kill before so if faced with that event i dont want to have to think much about it point and shoot no aiming.


----------



## BeefyBeefo

Rounder1106 said:


> Glock 26 with a 33 round _*clip*_


:smt018:smt018

:mrgreen: :smt083


----------



## jump15vc

In that siuation the shotgun, but in real life im grabbing my IWI Baby Deagle in 40SW, and since i live in a 1 room apartment im moving to the side of my bed, racking the slide and waiting for him to either walk into my bedroom or walk down the hall, if hes dumb enough not to run after hearing the slide hes gonna wish he had been. 

I live in a nice apartment in a nice neghborhood, but im literally around the corner from the ghetto part of town, ive practiced this situation about a dozen times, hope it never happens but it doesnt hurt to be prepared


----------



## FHBrumb

My Springfield XD spends it's nights in a lock box under the bed. A 4 button code (or just a turn of the key), and it's open. I have a good LED flashlight on the nightstand. Cellphone is next to the light.


----------



## wjh2657

12 Gauge. I don't have to go to closet, mine is already there. Maverick 88, 00 Buck, Cruiser mode in a Home Backup Rack. Just rollover and reach! Only mods to Maverick are Limb Saver pad and HighViz bead. I have ADT, Strong storm doors and windows and big heavy main doors. Dog sleeps on front porch. Viva Heller vs D.C.!


----------



## clanger

If I hear a bump? 
Proly roll over and go back to sleep. 
One would need a ram to get in my front door and my back door is 35' in the air. 

They're gonna be coming in through a window so I'm tuned into the sound of busting glass. 

Then- say "hi!' to the 5 shot roller on my nightstand. :smt033


----------



## maddmatt02

I only have the shotgun out of those choices, but if I had those options, id go for the nightstand. maybe theres more than one person in the house, and one is already close to your room or even at your door sneaking in and if you try to get to the closet it may not work. I might hold the 45 while I go for the 12 gauge though.


----------



## JeffWard

maddmatt02 said:


> I only have the shotgun out of those choices, but if I had those options, id go for the nightstand. maybe theres more than one person in the house, and one is already close to your room or even at your door sneaking in and if you try to get to the closet it may not work. I might hold the 45 while I go for the 12 gauge though.


This is like the military answer for a pistol. "You use your pistol to fight your way back to your rifle!" Good idea... Carry the nightstand gun while you're retreiving the shotty...

PS... My 870 now has BB shot in the chamber, and one more following that. The rest of the tube is 00 Buck.

JW


----------



## mccoy

Like a previous poster has already written, the one depicted is hardly a realistic situation.
BG's breaking into residences noisily, ignoring alarms and stuff that's OK if they've just overdosed on crack or PCP.

In that case it's all too evident they are insane bad guys, I'd reach for my 12 gauge, call the police, warn'em but keeping well in mind they are insane and because of that twice as dangerous. 
Police is not always close by. Some places like mine are hard to reach and they can (and do) take wrong directions.

Most common would be stealthy intrusion. So stealthy they would steal your valuables and your weapons and be out while you keep snoring. Also, sometimes you sleep in the ground floor, not above.

Dogs can be neutralized , inside home it's hard though, I believe they still are the best defense system you can get.
Pros know how to handle alarms.
What I do is to keep windows always shut, internal doors locked, let the dogs do their job and I do mine. That is, keeping family in a locked room (the three of us usually sleep together) stay alert even while sleeping (it can be done), grab semiauto 12 gauge in closet and keeping backup revolver ready if anything sounds wrong, let the BG steal whatever he wants outside of my bedroom, making it clear though that if he insists in forcing the locked bedroom door then I'll have to insist and force his guts out of his belly. All very legally.
I'd be against clearing the place. My priority would be to defend the family inside the Alamo.


----------



## nailer

If I have time(5 -10 secs), i get my Remington 870 expres 12 g pump. If no time, my Ruger GP 100 next to the bed.


----------



## stewart51

Whichever gun that you're most familiar with, for me it would be the 9mm


----------



## DanP_from_AZ

Wow, this may be the longest thread ever. :mrgreen:

My two cents. I am very lucky to live alone. No kids, no wife to worry about "my deal" in a single story house.

1. My Lab mix sleeps by the left side of my bed. She is well-proven as my "number one protection".
2. My S&W 642 Centennilal snubby with CR laser grips is on top of my night table. I know "the drill".
I can put that laser on the top, bottom, or middle of the three left or right door hinges. Or, anything else "there".
3. My Mosseberg 500 "black" eight shot 12 gauge with 00 buck is vertically stashed by my bed. "Number two protectioon".
It has a little bit of "cardboard cover" so none of my girfriends freak out. But, it is easlily accessed.
4. My Beretta 92 is in its drawer with night sights. 14 rounds of "Golder Saber". Plus another 14 rnd mag. 
If the Beretta is needed, I'm afraid I have a bit of a problem.
My dog and I am in a real world of hurt .Must be a big time war ! :mrgreen:


----------



## Mcox

i generally would reach for my kel tec pf9


----------



## PT92MJ

Of the choices given, I own a 9mm, actually two, one is a 9x18 Makarov chambered gun, so it would be one of the nines. I actually have three guns that I rotate for HD. The third is a 24/7 .40. The only rifle I own is a .22, locked up and not loaded. I sleep downstairs at our house, so the first responder to any breakin would be our female Rotweiller that likes nobody but family. She even tried to bite the vet on occasion.
The main concern in my house is the grandkids. Two of them sleep upstairs. I am counting on the dog to delay any attempts to get to the bedrooms until I can get upstairs. Our house is not laid out very well from a tactical position, in fact it sucks in that regard. One way up, narrow stairs. Two ways into the house, front door (dog has that covered) and a backyard patio door that opens right at the top of the stairs. The only good thing about that is to get to the back door, a BG has to either make noise opening the gate or climbing over the fence.


----------



## YFZsandrider

I fear the day that an intruder _is_ in the house. Usually I find myself stuck in front of the closet wondering.... which one do I grab?? The XD, right. ...ah, but the 1911 with night sights, or the Sig... not being able to decide could become hazardous!:mrgreen:


----------



## JeffWard

Interesting... After all this time, and all these posts...

It's almost exactly equal thirds in the poll.

Kuel.

Jeff


----------



## falchunt

I voted for the 12 ga bc thats probably what I would grab, but to be honest, I would be surprised if I had to pull the trigger. I have two purebred pits that sleep very lightly at my house. They are the biggest babies during leisure time with my wife and I, along with our baby. But on the rare occasion that someone comes in without knocking, they are NOT very happy at all. I have one Blue male and one blue fawn female. They are the best dogs that anyone could wish for. If I were sleeping and someone tried to open the door to the porch, I don't think they would make it a foot inside the house.
:anim_lol:


----------



## Bukwild CTO2

the shotty with a tac flashlight and 8 rounds of love


----------



## blammo

I reach for a XD 45 Tactical. Winchester 1300 close by.

Surfire 6P light and Safariland RLS light on the XD.


----------



## WinM70

The 12 gauge 1300 Defender backed up by the S&W 357Mag backed up by the 9mm.


----------



## dondavis3

My Kimber .45 and a tactical flashlight - both on my nightstand -










kids are all gone & wife's a better shot than I am 

:smt1099


----------



## thelonerang3r

Mossberg- I know that gun and how to shoot it. Shoulder fired weapons are easier to shoot accurately for me, and the sound of chambering a round has always sounded mean. My house may even allow a sneak attack- you get as far as my bedroom, and I come out behind you. I think cold steel to the back of the neck would get the point across.


----------



## austin88

first my.45 in my lock box next to my bed and second a 12 guage pump in front of the closet.. but just work the action on the 12 gauge and the perp should be runnin the other way unless their suicidal or just plain stupid


----------



## jump15vc

My jericho and flashlight on the nightstand. if im really goin to war my sks is in the closet


----------



## SIGness

SIG Pro 2022 chambered in 9mm is my bedside gun with a cheapo tack light. But if time is willing out comes the Rem 870 Knoxx Tac!!!


----------



## bunk

.45 and two hybrid wolfs will make whoever breaks into my home realize quick they really f'd up bad!


----------



## SARGeek

*Both...*

Use the 12 Gauge and keep the 45 handy.


----------



## Tucker

The selection is very limited...I have a Glock .357 under my pillow....:numbchuck:


----------



## von buck

I went with the 12 gauge, untill I get my permit it's all I can have.

Andy


----------



## JeffWard

OP Update!!!!

11,000 views later. Poll is still within 2%, dead even... Cool.

I need to add another option, since I now have an AR... DPMS Carbine, leaning in the corner. Why load 9, or 12??? When you can load THIRTY!!!!

My new order of defense:
1. 16" DPMS AR-15 Carbine with 55gr .223, at a little over 3000FPS.
2. Rem 870 12 gauge, with an 18" cyl choke, and a 8+1 mag tube, low recoil 00 Buck.
3. M&P 9c Cary gun, with a 17 round mag (12 rounder w/ +5 extension) with 147gr Hydrashocks.

JeffWard


----------



## copyoftheoriginal

*Man's Best Friend*

Our trusted, loyal and unconditional best friends are the real answer in this situation. Dog's are awesome!
They can keep us from having to reach for anything.
I have a choice between a Taurus PT1911 in a evault and a Remington 870 Synthetic 18"

Probably the shotgun, it's got the Hornady TAP 2-3/4" loads.

The dog's gonna have his ass before I figure out what's going on!


----------



## XD9OD

That duty falls to my Beretta CX4 9mm carbine. Aimpoint red dot, a Streamlight TLR-1, Tango Down stubby grip and 20rds of Federal HST 124gr+p.


----------



## falchunt

copyoftheoriginal said:


> Our trusted, loyal and unconditional best friends are the real answer in this situation. Dog's are awesome!
> They can keep us from having to reach for anything.
> The dog's gonna have his ass before I figure out what's going on!


That's what I'm sayin copy. :mrgreen:
My dogs are much more worried about the security of the house than I am, and I do make sure the house is secure...
:smt033


----------



## imager67

The 12 gauge would be first option. I have always thought that the sound of a running chainsaw would be a good deterrent for someone stumbling around the interior of an unknown house in the dark.


----------



## MR FEDZ

Well, my dog would just sit there with it's ears down and tail wagging if an intruder broke into my house. Think i would grab my only gun in the house which is a 40 cal.
Shoot the burglar and then the dog. JK


----------



## Jiu-jitsu fighter

I have a .40c M&P. I am also getting a 2 double barreled 12 gauge. I like the whole shorter shotgun than most of the tactical pumps. They wont hear a rack but maybe the snap of he barrel shutting will wake them up.


----------



## archull

Either my 9mm Sig in the night stand or my Beretta 12gauge under the bed.


----------



## rccola712

As my only shotgun is an O/U 12ga, I would want to investigate with both my shotgun and my 9mm.

Maybe I'll just have to start hunting for a 12 ga. pump, or a nice auto? Maybe even an AR of some type... man I NEED so many more weapons!:smt082


----------



## Gunners_Mate

This is my dog










135lbs of bear hunting muscle, a crazy mix of semi-intelligence/admirable stupidity and loyalty. Love killing ***** when they come on my property and don't happen to get away from him.

This was his grandfather










unlike his grandfather, Justice barks at everything that moves and has a particular distaste for strangers, solicitors, and preachers of religions.

unfortunately he currently resides with my mom as I am overseas. technically the army is my first line of defense here, lol.

But a shotgun is certainly the choice for me. Just the sound of the racking of a shell into battery better make that fool run before I get to them.


----------



## Mariano

12 gauge for sure


----------



## cougartex

Beretta 92FS INOX Vertec with CT laser.


----------



## Mental Avenger

I voted 9mm because I don’t have a .45. But I keep my P229 with either the .40 S&W barrel and JHP or the 9mm barrel and Black Talons, close by my bed.

I have thought about this quite a bit and have decided that the course of action is to remain quiet, grab the pistol, and lie on the floor behind the bed, and wait for them to come to me. From there the intruder will make a great silhouette as he comes through the door, against the various sources of nighttime illumination behind him. I will have a good solid steady rest with my elbows on the floor. I won’t be firing directly toward any neighbor because I will be firing upwards. It will be difficult if not impossible for the intruder to see me in the dark. (the wall switch at the door is disabled) If he has a flashlight, it is highly likely that he would shine it at chest level first, and not at the floor. The waterbed would be adequate protection for 90% of my body as he would have to fire through the water.

Although that would be a left handed shot for me, my right hand score at the range is only about 5% better than my left hand score.
:smt024


----------



## dondavis3

Mental Avenger

Sounds like you've got it pretty well thought out.

You might want to get a Crimson Trace Laser Grip for one of your guns - they are made for just the situation you're describing.

:smt1099


----------



## Mental Avenger

I am leaning towards the LaserMax which replaces the recoil spring guide. It is more compact, allows me to keep my current grips, and cannot be blocked by my hand.
:smt024


----------



## BowhuntnHoosier

12ga for me.... Its all loaded and ready about 1.5' from my bed. Leaning against the closet.


----------



## Cat

Mental Avenger said:


> I am leaning towards the LaserMax which replaces the recoil spring guide. It is more compact, allows me to keep my current grips, and cannot be blocked by my hand.
> :smt024


 Yes the laser rod is way better,Then Crimson hands down.


----------



## jdw68

I'd reach for my ear plugs! Can't sleep with all that racket...
just kidding - I think any of the 3 choices would work.


----------



## berettatoter

I reach for whatever will go "bang" in the night.


----------



## dondavis3

@ berettatoter

Good answer

:smt1099


----------



## XRacer

I said 45 ACP but actually I just reach over and say honey... Can you go downstairs and see who kicked in the front door... She is far more frightening than an M&P 45.


----------



## Holly

Truth be told. I reach for my husband. The guns are on HIS side of the bed... and I'm a chicken. :help:


----------



## berettatoter

Holly said:


> Truth be told. I reach for my husband. The guns are on HIS side of the bed... and I'm a chicken. :help:


Thats about what my wife would say, but I think if some moron were trying to do her some serious harm, she would dust their ***! (At least she better)


----------



## dondavis3

XRacer said:


> I said 45 ACP but actually I just reach over and say honey... Can you go downstairs and see who kicked in the front door... She is far more frightening than an M&P 45.


Now that there's funny :mrgreen:

:smt1099


----------



## 45Sidekick

i voted for the 12 gauge as i use that for my home defense, but it should be multiple choice as i might grab a 357 or 45 just depends where in the house i am and whats closest to me


----------



## thndrchiken

357 in the night stand drawer, 12 ga 870 right inside the closet door and my 45 as a pillow gun. I think the bases are covered.


----------



## mrcanada

IF someone were to B&E in my house, I can gaurantee I am not going to go hunt them down, it is not a sport. If there is something they want that bad, they can have it.
Now, that being said, the 12 ga would be loaded, me and the wife would be safely tucked away in a corner of the bedroom. IF the BG came near the bedroom, I would do everything in my power to make them leave. IF the BG entered the bedroom, I would hope a 12ga would be enough to make them run. Very very last resort would be to pull the trigger. VERY last resort. 
Its easy to talk about taking a human life until one has. Is a couple hundred bucks worth the long term issues that would come with that faitful pull of the trigger? I doubt it, but thats just my opinion.


----------



## ibanezbtb300

TerryP said:


> Given that scenerio I would probably grab the 12 ga and the 45, wait at the top of the stairs and rack the slide while my wife calls 911. The criminals have to figure you hear them unless they are idiots so the intimidation of the slide might help change their mind. If not I'll use the 12 first and have the 45 nearby.
> 
> The reality of my house would be a Ruger P94 in 40 S&W with an extra mag.


Why would you rack a round? The round should be in the chamber waiting for you to pull the trigger.


----------



## Arqueous

The 45 would be my choice and the 870 to my wife while she calls 911. I would have to go through the house as my kids rooms are closer to where a BG would enter, so I would have to ensure their safety first.


----------



## Packard

JeffWard said:


> Mini viscious attack dogs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The brown one is the half-wit... The black one protects the portion of the house under the covers on my bed...


I have a 101 pound Chesapeake Bay Retriever. The dog is stubborn, arrogant, and a pain in the ass. But no one is going to get in my house and survive. (The car is safe too. He'll attack the window glass trying to get at anyone approaching the car.)

So the glass breaks, the door opens, I dial 911 and tell them to send the undertakers.


----------



## SaltyD

Beretta CX4. 15 rounds of Corbon 9mm Powerball. Nightsight w/ 2.5 magnification and laser.

Second floor, only one way in and it's down a 30ft hallway from the bedroom. Alarm and dog. This is what I'd be looking at. And that's where I'll stay.


----------



## 1895gunner

I think I'm going for the shotgun, giving 45 to wife along with phone.. I would wait a few moments if time allowed to get my senses working. If I thought I would be heard getting up I would just wait aiming at the bedroom doorway. Depending on what I heard I might take the fight to them and away from my wife.

Lucky enough to not have lived through that one and hope I never do. In the real world I keep one gun in my bedroom, my 45 is in my nightstand top drawer with one in the pipe.

I use to leave a loaded 45/70 Guide Gun leaning in the corner next to my side of the bed. Only problem is that it would go through the perp the next six walls and into my vehicle or a neighbors house before it stopped.

1895gunner


----------



## Soonerman

I would grab the .45, I have one within reach of the bed but after grabbing that I would head for the shotgun and use that if I could reach it. I would be afraid the .45 would over penetrate and hit something or someone else. If it were a split second decision though the .45 would suffice.


----------



## zhurdan

Soonerman said:


> I would grab the .45, I have one within reach of the bed but after grabbing that I would head for the shotgun and use that if I could reach it. I would be afraid the .45 would over penetrate and hit something or someone else. If it were a split second decision though the .45 would suffice.


Might want to look into shotgun penetration issues if you're using buckshot. It penetrates more than most pistol rounds. Oh, and if you're using birdshot, well... might want to look into that as well. Both are not optimal ideas.

A person is actually better off using an AR15 with appropriate ammo (Hornady TAP, or other open tip ammo) as they will lose velocity far faster when penetrating walls due to smaller mass, thus penetrating less walls while still maintaining the ability to put leaky holes in bad guys.

*additionally, appropriate ammo is the key word here. If you're using ball ammo or barrier blind ammo, it'll poke a nice clean hole thru a couple of walls at least.*


----------



## berettabone

Bodyguard 380......102 gr. bjhp.............


----------



## Blade

mrcanada said:


> IF someone were to B&E in my house, I can gaurantee I am not going to go hunt them down, it is not a sport. If there is something they want that bad, they can have it.
> Now, that being said, the 12 ga would be loaded, me and the wife would be safely tucked away in a corner of the bedroom. IF the BG came near the bedroom, I would do everything in my power to make them leave. IF the BG entered the bedroom, I would hope a 12ga would be enough to make them run. Very very last resort would be to pull the trigger. VERY last resort.
> Its easy to talk about taking a human life until one has. Is a couple hundred bucks worth the long term issues that would come with that faitful pull of the trigger? I doubt it, but thats just my opinion.


Absolutely. There are two big problems when you choose to go "on the hunt". One, you run the grave risk that the bad guy will go to ground and you yourself will walk into an ambush. Secondly, if you go looking for the bad guy, when it comes time to defend your actions, you can be portrayed as the aggressor. A zealous prosecutor can say "So you went looking for him so you could shoot him?"

Here's the sequence of events in my battle plan...
1) Awakened by noise in house.
2) Grab gun
3) Secure family in defendable location (bedroom)
4) Call 911
5) Wait for help
6) Use gun if bad guy approaches.


----------



## scooter

Blade said:


> Absolutely. There are two big problems when you choose to go "on the hunt". One, you run the grave risk that the bad guy will go to ground and you yourself will walk into an ambush. Secondly, if you go looking for the bad guy, when it comes time to defend your actions, you can be portrayed as the aggressor. A zealous prosecutor can say "So you went looking for him so you could shoot him?"
> 
> Here's the sequence of events in my battle plan...
> 1) Awakened by noise in house.
> 2) Grab gun
> 3) Secure family in defendable location (bedroom)
> 4) Call 911
> 5) Wait for help
> 5a) bad guy robs you blind because
> 5b) police response is 30+ minutes
> 6) Use gun if bad guy approaches.


Fixed it for you


----------



## Blade

Blade said:


> Absolutely. There are two big problems when you choose to go "on the hunt". One, you run the grave risk that the bad guy will go to ground and you yourself will walk into an ambush. Secondly, if you go looking for the bad guy, when it comes time to defend your actions, you can be portrayed as the aggressor. A zealous prosecutor can say "So you went looking for him so you could shoot him?"
> 
> Here's the sequence of events in my battle plan...
> 1) Awakened by noise in house.
> 2) Grab gun
> 3) Secure family in defendable location (bedroom)
> 4) Call 911
> 5) Wait for help
> 5a) Bad guy robs you blind because
> 5b) Police response is 30+ minutes
> 6) Use gun if bad guy approaches.
> 7) Call insurance company
> 7a) Replacement cost insurance - get all new stuff
> 7b) No one's life put at risk


Nope, now it's fixed


----------



## barstoolguru

none of the above... I have a monster under the bed


----------



## prof_fate

my wife reaches for me, and I for the dog. So far no need to go further than that. Had guns for 34 years and have never felt the need to grab one in the middle of the night - or day for that matter.


----------



## 45

When things go bump in the night what do you reach for that a question eveyone has a diffrent answer for it all depend on how your house is laid out how many people you have living in your house weather it a two story house or a apament complex as for me I live in a two story house with my in laws they sleep on the bottom & me & my wife & son sleep on top so I have to take that into account as well I would probaley grab my remington 870 12 gauge pump rack a 00 buck into the chamber & wait at the top of the stairs & if there not my in laws well I guess they are done for now if you live in a apament complex the trusty old 12 gauge might not be your best bet it will do the job but you worry about over penatraction 00 buck have the tendacy to go through dry wall after you shoot someone & you don't want to kill your neighbor unless there the one breaking in of course so take that into account when choosing a home defense gun


----------



## dusterdude

TOF said:


> None of the above.
> 
> I live in a single story ranch style built by me. The doors are rather sturdy and a protective 90 pound dog resides within. What I would hear is a low growel, my cue to grab the M&P40. If a tinkle of glass was heard I would wait a few seconds for body parts to enter the house after which blood curdling screams would emenate from the BG as my gentle puppy compared his taste to the Elk legs she got last Sunday. If the entry zone was big enough for a man and the BG got loose my puppy would follow as would I. When puppy tired of the play I would hold the BG at gunpoint till the Sheriff arrived (Wife would call him). We have one Deputy covering a rather large chunk of mountain so the BG might lose a little more blood while waiting.
> 
> I know how my puppy would react because an aquaintance decided to enter uninvited a few months back. He saw through the window I was talking on the phone and decided to enter without knocking. He assures me he will never ever do that again. i don't know if he shows off the scars on his butt or not but I do know he didn't close the door fast enough. :smt083
> 
> :smt1099


Hell yea,used to have a rot like that


----------



## LePetomane

This loveable little fuzzball of ours is more protective than our other dog, an 80 lb. Doberman Pinscher.


----------



## sleepy

I gotta agree, a dog is the best first line of warning/defense. But to answer the thread, I have a double barrel 12 ga with buckshot leaning against the nightstand, a .45 acp laying on the nightstand, an 870 pump 12 ga in the safe and many others to choose from after that. But, that being said, if 2 rounds of buckshot and 8 rounds of hollowpoint 230 grain .45 doesn`t end the threat, then I`m probaly in deep doo doo. I don`t have to get out of bed to grab the shotgun or .45, just roll over. The safe is 3 short steps away. I`m single with no little ones anymore to worry about.


----------



## gallenl

My S&W Governor.


----------



## RONWEN

gallenl said:


> My S&W Governor.


Loaded with what ammo?


----------



## hof8231

Well let's see. In my house at college we have 4 people living there. Me and one friend on the 2nd floor, and 2 more friends on the first floor. Since these people are like family to me, I wouldn't wait for the BG to make his way to me. I'd grab the .45 (solely for the maneuverability and more rounds), a spare mag if possible, tell my friend upstairs to hide in her closet, and go confront the BG hopefully before he has a chance to get out of the living room. There's been an increase in break ins in our town lately so I've put a lot of thought into this. I'm thinking about asking to switch my room to downstairs for this exact reason but I like currently having the biggest room 

This is all best case scenario obviously. How would I honestly handle this if it were to really happen? I don't know. I'd like to think I'd do what I posted above, but I simply don't know. None of us do. It's easy to type out the best course of action, it's another thing to execute it.


----------



## ArazelEternal

My .357 Magnum which I keep on my nightstand next to my bed when I am asleep.


----------



## Huckleberry44

Well, first of all, hardly a leaf can blow by outside without my dog, Otis (Floppopotamus), going ballistic. He's a chocolate lab and one of the best "Watch Dogs" I've ever seen. He's got some rather large vocal chords, and ain't afraid to use 'em. If he detects something and starts barking, he'll come and make sure I hear his warning!

I am not married and have no children, so I am never far from a weapon in my house. That said, if I hear him bark or am awake and hear something strange, I reach for what's usually a Glock 30 Gen 3 with Streamlight that sleeps next to me under a pillow. If I'm not in bed, the G30 has an uncanny ability of following me around the house. For example, if I'm at my desk, it sits next to the mouse.


----------



## Tip

My wife!!
Oh, wait, different kind of bump in the night, huh?
You mean the noise kind right? 
Okay, in that case either the Sig or the H&K - really makes no difference to me.


----------



## pic

Hand the Dust pan and broom to my wife, maybe the vacuum cleaner to pick up the finer pieces of glass. My wife pisses me off everytime she forgets her key


----------



## Ricky59

My carry gun is never too far away..
Kahr PM9 ...


----------



## Popeye7751

Sig P220 .45 Shotguns have skeet chokes in them. Would make too many holes to patch up.


----------



## high pockets

A mop and a towel.










He sleeps in the bedroom doorway.


----------



## Polkster13

I would go with the 12 gauge pump and my wife would have the 9 MM as backup. Just chambering a round will cause most BG's to back off. I don't have anything that is worth anything that would cause anyone in their right mind to rush someone holding a 12 gauge shotgun. Notice I said "right-mind". There are some crazies out there that won't be phased by my chambering a round, so if they enter I had better be prepared to let them have it. If it comes down to me or them, they are going to loose every time. I will not hesitate to take someone out if they threaten me or mine.


----------



## gunguy

I chose my carry guns, 9mm or my .38 spl.

No question, the best choice is the 12 gauge scatter gun, but with other people/pets in the house/neighbors next door, the shotgun might get very messy, literally and legally. Popcornsmilie

Thats why i reach for my carry gun, but keep the shotgun handy as back-up. :anim_lol:
----
*NRA Member*

The Second Amendment is our constitutional Right...embrace it, PROTECT it, and never take it for granted


----------



## Tip

Whichever I'm closest to.


----------



## Philco

gunguy said:


> I chose my carry guns, 9mm or my .38 spl.
> 
> No question, the best choice is the 12 gauge scatter gun, but with other people/pets in the house/neighbors next door, the shotgun might get very messy, literally and legally. Popcornsmilie
> 
> Thats why i reach for my carry gun, but keep the shotgun handy as back-up. :anim_lol:
> ----
> *NRA Member*
> 
> The Second Amendment is our constitutional Right...embrace it, PROTECT it, and never take it for granted


I would think the shotgun would pose much less of a threat to the neighbors than would any handgun, unless it was loaded with slugs which would make no sense in a defensive situation. Additionally, a BG bleeding out on your floor will make a mess regardless of what you shot him with.


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## DirtyDog

If I haven't gone to bed yet, it's whatever gun I'm carrying that day. If I'm in bed, the bedside gun is a Glock 41, for which I am awaiting arrival of a suppressor. I don't want to deafen myself over some bad guy...


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## borris

1Of 2 Bed Sides PX 4-40 Sub Compact/ My Cheetah 380 Stoke With G.Sabers If I'm Up Doing Things My Tom Cat Or My Snake Slayer With PDX .brokenimage Oh Wait I For Got About My St Bernard That Out Snore's Me L O L


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## borris

Must Be The Dru-leis ! , Know It All To Well With A St Bernard !


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## borris

high pockets said:


> A mop and a towel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He sleeps in the bedroom doorway.


 Must Be The Dru-lies , Know It All To Well With A St Bernard !


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## high pockets

borris said:


> Must Be The Dru-lies , Know It All To Well With A St Bernard !


No "dru-lies." More likely to be blood and body parts. LGDs adopt their families like their flock and he REALLY believes in protecting his "flock."


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## gunguy

Philco said:


> I would think the shotgun would pose much less of a threat to the neighbors than would any handgun, unless it was loaded with slugs which would make no sense in a defensive situation. Additionally, a BG bleeding out on your floor will make a mess regardless of what you shot him with.


Agreed. But I was thinking more about the scatter devastation a 12 gauge with 00 buckshot can do within close proximity, depending on the choke of course. :smt023
----
*Member: NRA, GOA*

The Second Amendment is our constitutional Right...embrace it, PROTECT it, and never take it for granted


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## Goldwing

My g21 has trijicon night sights on it and is in the speed safe very near where I sleep so that's an easy choice for me. The 870 is packed with alternating 00 buck and 1 oz slugs. It's just not nearly as handy while navigating the house in the dark.
Goldwing


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## GCBHM

I'm reaching for the gun I'm most familiar with, which is my EDC gun, the HK VP9. However, I have other options available to me, so suffice it to say I am well armed. The best defensive weapon I employ is my mind.


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## muckaleewarrior

Whatever is closest. I normally have at least 2 options, sometimes 3.


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## RA9

JeffWard said:


> From a sound sleep, you hear that "thump" downstairs... the tinkling sound of breaking glass on the entry rug... and the deadbolt goes ca-chunk...
> 
> Within steps of the bed, are:
> 
> 1) The 12 Gauge Pump w/ buckshot in the closet,
> 2) The .45 ACP in the nightstand, or
> 3) The 9mm/38 Special in your pants pocket, hanging on the door.
> 
> Which one do you grab?


The AR15 loaded w/ 30 Vmax rounds and w/ a tac light on it.

The FBI says 223s are less likely to penetrate typical housng materials and harm innocent people.


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## noylj

Call me silly, but a cell phone. Then my pistol. Then I tell 911 that I have a pistol.


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## Greybeard

S&w m&p-9


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## shaolin

I grab my Glock 19 first then back up is a Glock 36. Last line of defense is a 870 but it should be the first but I guess I am backwards.


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