# Taurus PT709 slim Another fine review!



## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Here we see the PT-709 Slim being put through its paces, amazing he adapts to the trigger very quickly. A great pistol for those looking for a 9 that wont break the family budget A true pocket carry 9 and even though the gun has less than 50rds through it he handles the 709 like a pro! Here's the link


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Cannon said:


> Here we see the PT-709 Slim being put through its paces, amazing he adapts to the trigger very quickly. A great pistol for those looking for a 9 that wont break the family budget A true pocket carry 9 and even though the gun has less than 50rds through it he handles the 709 like a pro! Here's the link


Looking for your salesman of the year award? Sorry I just couldn't help myself.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

An acquaintance, an PhD/Psychiatrist extremely proficient and experienced with defensive weapons, purchased a Slim hoping that it would be an easily hidden carry pistol.
Of course, before ever carrying it as a life-saving tool, he practiced with it extensively to familiarize himself with its workings and use, and to make sure that it was reliable.

After about 300 practice rounds (or maybe it was 350), the Slim's frame cracked irremediably.
My acquaintance was disappointed and upset, not only because the pistol was ruined, but also because the failed Slim's design seemed to have been such a good idea.
Taurus was not helpful. Nevertheless, even if Taurus had replaced the gun, he wrote that he still would not have trusted his life to another Slim

From Taurus's point-of-view, the failure of that particular Slim was truly a tragedy. The person about whom I'm writing ran a very popular pistol-self-defense web site, and he immediately wrote about his experience. We who discussed issues there were the first to know of the Taurus's catastrophic failure.
The result of that failure, and his notes about it, brought other disappointed Taurus users out of their closets. The ongoing discussion turned a whole lot of self-defense shooters away from Taurus's products.

(The psychiatrist's web site is now closed down. He found himself so deeply involved in teaching people to use pistols for self defense that he had little time left for his curative practice, and no time left in which to run a web site.)


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

As I said in the other thread, I like both Sootch00 and hickok45. I subscribe to both of them and enjoy their personality styles. Nonetheless, these are two of the largest subscriber based paid reviewer sites reviewing guns on YouTube. Both of them also review many guns without being paid, but new guns are usually paid for by the manufacturer or distributor. They both also get free ammunition and extra pay for using that ammunition. 

That said, I do like both of them, but when they review a new gun, it's going to be positive most of the time. When there is a failure, they both tend to blame themselves like the grip or their finger must have been touching the slide release, but something. They rarely, if ever, blame the item they're being paid to review or the ammunition for the same reason. They also get free holsters, belts, suppressors and other accessories. I prefer all the older guns Hickok45 reviews for fun. He sometimes gets paid to do so by Bud's Gunshop, but that's ok. He shoots a paper target and signs it to include in their E-Gunner auctions.


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

No desertman I'm just pointing out its a decent low cost option for those on a budget and even the reviewer thought so. Steve1911A1 sorry your friend had a problem but we have no idea how long ago this happened or what caused it to happen there are many reasons a frame can crack. Craigh your right about Hickok45, but I've yet to see him blame himself for a guns failure, the 709 Slim has been around for years so I really doubt he was paid for the review . If you can prove he was paid go ahead and post your proof, He was asked by his viewers to review this gun for quiet some time, yes he does get free ammo and hes sent many accessories from manufacturers in the hope he will deem them worthy, its not often he uses them unless he likes them and feels their a real value. Granted you may not like his referrals of equipment but again if you really feel they wont serve you well just ignore his recommendations.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Cannon said:


> If you can prove he was paid go ahead and post your proof, He was asked by his viewers to review this gun for quiet some time, yes he does get free ammo and hes sent many accessories from manufacturers in the hope he will deem them worthy, its not often he uses them unless he likes them and feels their a real value. Granted you may not like his referrals of equipment but again if you really feel they wont serve you well just ignore his recommendations.


Cannon, for starters, I don't need to prove anything at all to you. What I said is common knowledge. Moreover, you don't have a clue on what or why he or anyone else promotes a product. Finally, nobody said a thing about not liking his referrals of equipment. I have noticed though, somehow your brain seems to read in things which are not said much of the time.

Every forum, regardless on whether firearms, photography, etc. has it's brand fanboys. You are ours. Congratulations. Be proud.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

My God we've been over this before, it makes no sense for anyone to buy a cheaply made gun when over the long run they're gonna' end up spending thousands in ammo in order to become proficient with it. Unless of course they're the types of people who will buy a gun, load it up, throw it in a drawer and forget about it. That being the case then a cheaply made handgun is the gun for them. Contrary to what you may believe and in spite of you being a de facto sales rep for Taurus products you do get what you pay for. If Taurus products were so great than why aren't they chosen by the nations law enforcement and military agencies? Just think of all the money that would be saved. They're never even taken into consideration and for good reason, they have a poor track record and they'd probably never hold up under continuous use without failing especially under adverse conditions.

I've never come across anyone who's had such an unbridled love affair over cheaply made handguns. Of all the people that post on this forum you're clearly in the minority when it comes to the virtues of Taurus products. There's gotta' be a reason why? It's not because we feel like just picking on Cannon's choice of handgun. Taurus products are what they are, there's no way of sugarcoating it. You just can't seem to accept the fact that Taurus products have been plagued with problems for years. Not just one or two particular guns but several of them. As I've already pointed out in an earlier post they've had to settle a $39 million dollar law suit that involved nine models alone. Doesn't that tell you something?

Craigh is absolutely 100% correct when it comes to those gun reviews on You Tube. They're mostly for entertainment and shouldn't be taken too seriously. Anyway I'm getting tired, time to go and suck down a few beers. I'm kinda' sorry for getting drawn into this again.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

desertman said:


> ...it makes no sense for anyone to buy a cheaply made gun when over the long run they're gonna' end up spending thousands in ammo in order to become proficient with it...


...Or to buy a reasonably-priced gun ($400? $600?), and then carry it is a $20.00 holster, on a $5.00 belt.

Both of those subjects are sure to set me off.

Oh...and the cracked Slim frame happened just a few years ago.


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Haters gonna hate.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Hate baiters gonna bait.

GW


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Most of us here don't hate Taurus. I don't. I've often said I like their 1911 and some others on occasion. As my friend Desertman said, they fill a niche market. My only real issue is with fanbois (sic) who generally own one thing and promote that one to the point of being spam. They tend to exaggerate like claiming to have other brands or having put 5,000 rounds through their item. I think an occasional Taurus fanboi comes from the Taurus Forums where they go back and tell all the faithful how they trolled this or that forum. heheheh. Really?

As far as owning a Taurus, I probably would. If I saw a 1911 at a pawn shop for a really good price like around $250, I'd probably snap it up for a project gun. I'd probably get it over one of the Filipino models used. After all, how badly can you mess up a forged 1911? If I saw a Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Casull with at least a 5.5" (preferably 6.5") barrel, used in good shape, I might get it if it were priced really right. It would have to be half the cost of a used Super Blackhawk Bisley in that caliber for me to jump ship. I'd rather have an SA style in that round. I'd also consider other Taurus revolvers if they were made in a caliber I was interested in and priced cheaply enough. So, I don't particularly hate Taurus. I just don't and won't trust their semi auto pistols. I wouldn't recommend them for all the same reasons we've beat this dead horse over. They are real reasons, not hate.

Like I tell my liberal friends, it was their fault which got Trump elected by and large. It was the blind vitriol by celebrities and talking heads which pushed him over the top. These are the political fanbois. It's the Taurus fanbois which tends to promote a dislike for that brand, creating haters from mostly disinterested gun owners who would just rather not own a Taurus. I think they do their brand a disfavor at best. Besides, most of the fanbois are missed by their villages who are out looking for them. 

*Fanboi* Fanboi | Define Fanboi at Dictionary.com


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Or to buy a reasonably-priced gun ($400? $600?), and then carry it is a $20.00 holster, on a $5.00 belt.
> 
> Both of those subjects are sure to set me off.
> 
> Oh...and the cracked Slim frame happened just a few years ago.


That reminds me of someone I once knew that put a $2000 set of wheels on a beat up late 70's 4 door sedan.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

Too bad they are gonna replace the Slim with the the G2S...which is a single stack G2.
Another great concept which will be poorly executed....My guess will be the poor trigger poor fit and finish
will carry over to the G2S


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Cannon said:


> Haters gonna hate.


Semantically, that phrase, "Haters gonna hate," reflects negatively upon the person who uses it.

This is because it is the mere application of a label to someone who disagrees with you. Instead of refuting the claims of the opposition with a reasoned argument, the user sidesteps entirely any need for intellectual interchange, and merely "calls names."
This is child-like behavior. Certainly, there is very little difference between calling someone a "hater" and calling that person a "poopy head."

It is also a form of _ad hominem_ attack. That is, instead of attacking the opposition's reasoned argument, the opponent attacks the person who is presenting it. At best, this is intellectually dishonest.

Frequently, the person using _ad hominem_ shortcuts like labels to attempt to refute someone else's argument is doing that because of his (or her) psychological "investment" in the object under discussion.
In the matter of guns, that "investment" can even be psycho-sexual, as when the _ad-hominem_ attacker has somehow conflated his choice of gun with his personal sexual capacity, "size," or prowess.

In any case, in order to preserve the aspects of polite conversation we treasure here, and to promote the exchange of learning and information on this forum, we members should neither use labels nor _ad hominem_ attacks of any kind.

Yes, people who do those negative and destructive things truly are poopy heads! :yawinkle:


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Semantically, that phrase, "Haters gonna hate," reflects negatively upon the person who uses it.
> 
> This is because it is the mere application of a label to someone who disagrees with you. *Instead of refuting the claims of the opposition with a reasoned argument*, the user sidesteps entirely any need for intellectual interchange, and merely "calls names."
> This is child-like behavior. Certainly, there is very little difference between calling someone a "hater" and calling that person a "poopy head."
> ...


Excellent post Steve! :smt023 :smt023 :smt023


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

desertman said:


> Looking for your salesman of the year award? Sorry I just couldn't help myself.


Nope, no need for apology. That is the absolute truth. Paid or Commission based "EMPLOYEE" of Taurus. How else do you explain such single focused devotion to such irrefutably demonstrated "JUNK"? Sorry, everything mechanical can and does have problems, but anything with a Taurus label on it has far more than it's fair share of mechanical problems, IMO.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

RK3369 said:


> Nope, no need for apology. That is the absolute truth.* Paid or Commission based "EMPLOYEE" of Taurus. How else do you explain such single focused devotion *to such irrefutably demonstrated "JUNK"? Sorry, everything mechanical can and does have problems, but anything with a Taurus label on it has far more than it's fair share of mechanical problems, IMO.


No, I would disagree, though it might look like an employee's devotion to his company, this behavior is prevalent on Internet forums and was given the name "fanboism" a sarcastic derivation of the word "fanboy." It started as a Geek term related to forum users who think a product/company/person can do no wrong. Example: No matter many bugs Star Wars Galaxies has, a fanboi will always defend the developers. (Urban Dictionary)

A male, or "fangirl" if female, who is devoted to a particular product or company. Fanboys are loyal and steadfast in their dedication and opinions. With regard to technology, fanboys outnumber fangirls by a huge margin and may be enamored with specific computer platforms, MP3 players, smartphones, operating systems, video games or applications. See iSheep, Fandroid and fanboi. (PC Magazine)

As a verb: (fandom slang, intransitive) To worship, support, drool over the object of affection; to be a fanboy. (Wiki)

Again, as a verb: (of a male fan) to demonstrate intense excitement at the mention or in the presence of a particular celebrity, film, product, etc., especially one associated with popular culture or technology: _I don't usually fanboy over optics, but these binoculars are awesome._ (dictionary.com)

Anyway, this is what we are seeing here with regards to a Taurus Fanboi. Sometimes, I too find myself having to be careful. I sometimes have been known to be overly supportive to products and brand names I like and own. I've been known to support Nikon brand even when they've botched something. When I catch myself almost doing this, I tone it down because, I don't want to be a fanboi type person. Fanbois tend to drive away support rather than the other way around. To gain credibility, they often lie or exaggerate their credentials. When this particular type person surfaces, you can generally discount anything they might claim because those claims are generated to support their devotion as a fan.

On my Photography forum, we have a Panasonic fanboi who constantly promoted one particular camera. over and over again. He claimed to be a professional with 40 years experience. Finally, someone who personally knew him said he was a guy who worked in a local 1 Hour Photo kiosk. The guy was so embarrassed he closed his account. A month later, he was back with a different name but supporting that same camera. As if it wasn't obvious. So often, that's a problem with fanbois, they don't realize how obvious they are.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

*Click to enlarge---->*






:mrgreen:


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Craigh said:


> No, I would disagree, though it might look like an employee's devotion to his company, this behavior is prevalent on Internet forums and was given the name "fanboism" a sarcastic derivation of the word "fanboy." It started as a Geek term related to forum users who think a product/company/person can do no wrong. Example: No matter many bugs Star Wars Galaxies has, a fanboi will always defend the developers. (Urban Dictionary)
> 
> A male, or "fangirl" if female, who is devoted to a particular product or company. Fanboys are loyal and steadfast in their dedication and opinions. With regard to technology, fanboys outnumber fangirls by a huge margin and may be enamored with specific computer platforms, MP3 players, smartphones, operating systems, video games or applications. See iSheep, Fandroid and fanboi. (PC Magazine)
> 
> ...


You're giving a polite explanation. I just think he's a paid actor, nothing less. Older Taurus revolvers are pretty good. Most all of the semis, are just plain junk. I wouldn't waste my money on one, but that's just my opinion.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

RK3369 said:


> You're giving a polite explanation. I just think he's a paid actor, nothing less. Older Taurus revolvers are pretty good. Most all of the semis, are just plain junk. I wouldn't waste my money on one, but that's just my opinion.


Actually I'm not giving it a polite explanation at all. A fanboi would be happy to be considered a paid actor, most of the time. In their minds it gives them credibility. You see, they believe they are somehow smarter than others and would deserve being paid for their devotion over the product or brand of their admiration. On the other hand, a fanboy or fanboi is about the worse thing one can be accused of on most Internet forums. Fanboys have no credibility whatsoever. In our case, a Taurus fanboi wouldn't even have Taurus on his side.. wouldn't want him. Once figured out and labeled, a fanboi becomes a thorn in the side of the brand they're promoting. Generally, they tend to reach the end of their foolishness when they start slinging around ad hominem attacks at their detractors. They often then close out and come back later under a different name, thinking nobody will notice. Again, they're smarter than the rest of us. We're just haters.

I'm actually surprised there isn't already a second account for our fanboy. Most of them create one early on to support the main account or to hide it. That account would pipe up every so often. An example would be someone agreeing with us being "haters" or claiming when someone brings up Taurus, there's all this "hate" which occurs. It's all of a same, imaginary persecution. Anyone who expresses a disagreement with the object of their affection is persecuting them. We are all haters. If you were to head to the Taurus forum (not ours) you'd see a lot of this combined imaginary persecution. I've never been there, but I bet dollars to donuts, that's what you'd find. That's why they come here and other forums. No fun in hobnobbing with your fellow fanboys. Better to troll the haters.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Yes, people who do those negative and destructive things truly are poopy heads! :yawinkle:


Steve, you should be ashamed of yourself using such salty language. You probably sent Cannon to his safe place!!

I hope you don't get banned for use of such strong language!! :anim_lol:


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Craigh said:


> Actually I'm not giving it a polite explanation at all. A fanboi would be happy to be considered a paid actor, most of the time. In their minds it gives them credibility. *You see, they believe they are somehow smarter than others and would deserve being paid for their devotion over the product or brand of their admiration.* On the other hand, a fanboy or fanboi is about the worse thing one can be accused of on most Internet forums. Fanboys have no credibility whatsoever. In our case, a Taurus fanboi wouldn't even have Taurus on his side.. wouldn't want him. Once figured out and labeled, a fanboi becomes a thorn in the side of the brand they're promoting. Generally, they tend to reach the end of their foolishness when they start slinging around ad hominem attacks at their detractors. They often then close out and come back later under a different name, thinking nobody will notice. Again, they're smarter than the rest of us. We're just haters.
> 
> I'm actually surprised there isn't already a second account for our fanboy. Most of them create one early on to support the main account or to hide it. That account would pipe up every so often. An example would be someone agreeing with us being "haters" or claiming when someone brings up Taurus, there's all this "hate" which occurs. It's all of a same, imaginary persecution. Anyone who expresses a disagreement with the object of their affection is persecuting them. We are all haters. If you were to head to the Taurus forum (not ours) you'd see a lot of this combined imaginary persecution. I've never been there, but I bet dollars to donuts, that's what you'd find. That's why they come here and other forums. No fun in hobnobbing with your fellow fanboys. Better to troll the haters.


I think you're onto something! :smt023 :smt023 :smt023

As I've mentioned in some of my previous posts regarding Taurus products. I liken them to Harbor Freight tools. No serious mechanic or hobbyist would ever buy or even consider them. They may be okay for occasional use but even then they could break while you're using them and least expect it. But the difference between hand tools and a firearm is that your life may one day depend on that firearm. In which case it could cost you your life. So what it all boils down to is how much value do you put on your life to trust it to a cheap handgun manufactured by a company that has been plagued with problems and has had a reputation for lousy customer service?

I can understand why a lot of first time buyers who really aren't into guns might find them attractive because of their low price. Those are the types of people who feel they need a gun for protection but don't want to spend any more than what they absolutely have to. Chances are that they will not be willing to put the time and effort into learning how to become proficient with it as that too will cost them money. So there the gun sits all loaded up in a drawer and just like the fire extinguisher under the kitchen sink the owner will hope they never have to use it. Carrying it while out in public, even more so demands that the gun carrier become proficient with it. As they could put the general public in danger if the carrier can't hit the broad side of a barn with it from 5 feet away. Not to mention safety issues to the owner themselves.

I don't care who you are but no one was born a marksman with a pistol in hand. You can expect to pay at least several thousand dollars or more on ammo alone practicing and honing your skills. Depending on the caliber at least 50 cents to a dollar goes flying out the barrel with every squeeze of the trigger. Unless of course you're shooting .22's which are a poor choice for any serious self defense situation. 22's are a hell of a lot of fun for recreational shooting but you should practice and become proficient with the caliber and gun you choose for self defense, at the very least a 380.

The other issue with cheap guns is their durability. Will they be able to withstand thousands of rounds being fired through them before any of their critical parts break? By the luck of the draw some may, but more than likely they will not. Murphy's law may apply when you need the gun the most. I'm sure as hell not willing to take that gamble. Yet in spite of what some may think you do get what you pay for. If those cheap handguns were every bit as good as their more expensive counterparts you would think that they would put all of the other gun companies out of business? Or at the very least force those companies to lower their prices to their level in order to remain competitive? Not to mention every law enforcement and military agency that would be latching on to them to better balance their budget using the dollars saved to piss away in other areas. It would be an unprecedented windfall for them.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Cannon said:


> Here we see the PT-709 Slim being put through its paces, amazing he adapts to the trigger very quickly. A great pistol for those looking for a 9 that wont break the family budget A true pocket carry 9 and even though the gun has less than 50rds through it he handles the 709 like a pro! Here's the link


You better get one before they're all gone.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

It seems like Taurus get's beat up a lot. As I said previously, I have had great luck with the older models. The G2 seems to be decent for the money, maybe Taurus is paying attention? I must say that having observed a half a dozen G2's on the LEOSA qualification line, and firing one, I can say they all worked with no stoppages. The trigger is truly poor. It made my Glock 21's trigger seem smooth and light. On the G2's reliability, you have to remember that a lot of the gun's will be fired for perhaps 100 rounds, then carried for a year until qualification rolls around again. As such, the statement's like "Had my Taurus for years, no problem", begs the question, "How many rounds have you fired?" Photo is Taurus gun's that have been SHOT for years and still work.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Craigh said:


> Actually I'm not giving it a polite explanation at all. A fanboi would be happy to be considered a paid actor, most of the time. In their minds it gives them credibility. You see, they believe they are somehow smarter than others and would deserve being paid for their devotion over the product or brand of their admiration. On the other hand, a fanboy or fanboi is about the worse thing one can be accused of on most Internet forums. Fanboys have no credibility whatsoever. In our case, a Taurus fanboi wouldn't even have Taurus on his side.. wouldn't want him. Once figured out and labeled, a fanboi becomes a thorn in the side of the brand they're promoting. Generally, they tend to reach the end of their foolishness when they start slinging around ad hominem attacks at their detractors. They often then close out and come back later under a different name, thinking nobody will notice. Again, they're smarter than the rest of us. We're just haters.
> 
> I'm actually surprised there isn't already a second account for our fanboy. Most of them create one early on to support the main account or to hide it. That account would pipe up every so often. An example would be someone agreeing with us being "haters" or claiming when someone brings up Taurus, there's all this "hate" which occurs. It's all of a same, imaginary persecution. Anyone who expresses a disagreement with the object of their affection is persecuting them. We are all haters. If you were to head to the Taurus forum (not ours) you'd see a lot of this combined imaginary persecution. I've never been there, but I bet dollars to donuts, that's what you'd find. That's why they come here and other forums. No fun in hobnobbing with your fellow fanboys. Better to troll the haters.


I reviewed Cannons posts and I believe I see a pattern. Correct me if I am inaccurate please. He posts: (1) To welcome new members and tells them that they will be happy here. 
(2) To relate his fixation on a demonstrably second rate brand of low buck firearms.  
(3) To magnify the relatively minor falings of first rate firearms manufacturers and compare it to his fixation.

This is not criticism of Cannon. This is my observation of his pattern on our forum. "Poopy Head" Notwithstanding.

GW


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Typically, diehard Taurus loyalists don't stop to consider that on a gun forum populated by responsible gun owner/hobbyists (or whatever label fits for gun nuts), most of the experienced shooters want to insure that beginners have a heads-up on any potential problems they might encounter. In the entire history of Taurus, their quality control and warranty problems are legendary, and are worthy of mention to anyone who is ignorant of the fact. You can call them bashers or haters, or you can simply present your own experiences and let the reader draw his own conclusions.

An example of this would be my experiences with a used CZ RAMI pistol that I purchased, several years ago. I love CZ pistols, and they have a stellar record of performance...on everything but the early production models of the RAMI. I reported my problems with it, here, and all of the things I tried to fix it, over a period of several weeks. It was such a great, accurate double-stack subcompact that I really wanted it to function reliably enough for concealed carry self-defense. I finally did send it back to the factory and they fixed it by taking a lot of material off the feed ramp, allowing it to function properly with hollow point ammo. However, I had so many range failures with it, before the repair, that I never carry it, even though it has not failed a single time since the factory repair.

My point, here, is that a person who has given the necessary amount of thought to carrying a lethal weapon for self defense, does not want any nagging doubts about the equipment he/she carries. There are going to be enough other doubts to be be overcome, in any defense of your life, if (God forbid) it ever comes to that.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Goldwing my friend, I was speaking more about fanbois in general, but yes, Cannon does seem to fit the bill. I think you hit the nail on the head a while back when you suggested he only had one handgun. He immediately challenged that, of course, but I think you're right. I believe he also said he had 5,500 rounds through his G2. I would guess less than 200 no matter what he says. Again, the credibility of a fanboi is zero. 

Now, what might surprise you is the possibility he owns no handguns whatsoever. Maybe his dad living upstairs in the main part of the home has a Taurus. Who knows? Fanboys want to be part of a culture with a minimum investment in it. Experience is gained via others like Youtube videos not through real world experience. You can't even trust their forum avatars to be real. It's all imaginary. They want to be considered the Guru and be looked up to and don't mind being looked down on as long as they get attention. They do a lot of Internet research in order to gain credibility. They will parrot others from a different forum. These are amazing creatures in a way. 

I mentioned having a second account earlier. The more I think about it, this might be his second account here. His primary account would be much more reasonable seemingly. It might be another member who occasionally brings up the G2 but who might also mention some of it's flaws. Just a little. These guys just interest me, maybe too much. I've watched them on so many other forums like my bird forum, photography forum and some others over the years. 

One thing that's funny and you sometimes see it when they use two or more accounts. They make a mistake and forget which account they're using. They might post something and when later defending that post, do it on another account. Like ONE says something. A member replies about it. TWO says, "I didn't say that." Bang, they're caught. LOL ONE and TWO are the same, just got mixed up. This is why all forums, including this one, has a policy in the terms of service not allowing multiple accounts. Fanboys don't care. It's for mutual support.


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Wow paranoia has affected some here, how dare I post anything positive about a brand you hate! Get over your self righteous indignation that there's just no way a person who owns a Taurus is actually being well served by it. Yeah haters gonna hate and goldwing and craigh prove it. There beside themselves that I would actually dare to post positive remarks about a low cost reliable gun review from You Tube in the Taurus area of the forum. Opinions are like?? Well you get the point, I don't need or want your approval to post here guys, I like the brand and you don't. My advice... Get over it. Don't be a gun Nazi!


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Heheheh. I knew he couldn't take it. Amazing, to say the least, and typical. More ad hominem. Now, we're not only haters, but we're also paranoid Nazis. Nobody is righteous and nobody is in the least indignant over your posts, my boy. I could care less what brand you drool over. For all I care, go ahead and buy one for yourself. Get some ammo and see if it does work okay for you.

Personally, I don't care what you post, Cannon. I really don't. I was making some observations about Fanboys and how they act on various forums. I was a tailor who crafted a jacket to fit most anyone. You walked into my shop and claimed that jacket was cut just for you. Congratulations. Predictable. Hook, line, and sinker.

Oh and just in case you were unaware. Probably very few hang out on this Taurus forum. The only reason most see your post is because most of us use the Active Topics forum or What's New on this site. As I'm sure you know, all posts go in there from all the other various forums, even Taurus. Therefore, it's hard to avoid seeing them. If it really mattered I'd just click the ignore button if there was one. The point is, you really do not matter in the least. I don't even mind the ad hominem attacks. You're just a little comical, and the humor is usually welcome. Your antics put a smile on my face and that's a good thing. Wouldn't you agree?


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

It is possible to get a good Taurus...I have one.
It all depends on how much of a gambling man you are.
It is like going to a casino,You are gonna lose way more than you are ever gonna win.
At least that has been my experience.


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Craigh If you could care less what I shoot or what I post then why comment?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Cannon said:


> Wow paranoia has affected some here, how dare I post anything positive about a brand you hate! Get over your self righteous indignation that there's just no way a person who owns a Taurus is actually being well served by it. Yeah haters gonna hate and goldwing and craigh prove it. There beside themselves that I would actually dare to post positive remarks about a low cost reliable gun review from You Tube in the Taurus area of the forum. Opinions are like?? Well you get the point, I don't need or want your approval to post here guys, I like the brand and you don't. My advice... Get over it. Don't be a gun Nazi!


par·a·noi·a
ˌperəˈnoiə/Submit
noun
a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.
NOT ME.

Na·zi
ˈnätsē/Submit
noun
1.
historical
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
adjective
1.
of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.
NOT ME.

jack·ass
ˈjakˌas/Submit
noun
1.
a stupid person.
2.
a male ass or donkey.
ALSO NOT ME!

GW


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Cannon said:


> . There beside themselves that I would actually dare to post positive remarks about a low cost reliable gun review from You Tube in the Taurus area of the forum. Opinions are like?? Well you get the point, I don't need or want your approval to post here guys, I like the brand and you don't. My advice... Get over it. Don't be a gun Nazi!


Cannon, my friend, you have a very favorable attitude about Taurus. That's perfectly fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately, you won't find a lot of other members on here who share those sentiments, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You just won't find a lot of support for it here so if you can accept that, we're all good. As mentioned, I have a couple of their older revolvers and they are fine. Beyond that, i've Had unfavorable experiences with their semis and certainly with their CS, which is absolutely the worst I've ever encountered for any product in my 67 year lifetime. Two reasons I don't support Taurus, IMO, I can't rely on one to function when I need it, and can't get any support from the company to fix it.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Cannon said:


> Craigh If you could care less what I shoot or what I post then why comment?


Mostly because you're humorous in your pathetic fanboyism. I doubt you own a Taurus nor any handgun, computer games notwithstanding. I think you watch a lot of videos because you want to be part of the gun community. Nothing at all wrong with that. Obviously, you're welcome to pursue this anyway you wish.

Look where Goldwing posted that definition of paranoia. Read it carefully and think about how it might apply, especially with regards to delusions of persecution. Who thinks everyone is against them? Nor am I jealous of anyone or feel exaggerated self importance. Like most here, I'm fallible and make mistakes, lots of them, but at least I don't live my life as a proxy for some gun brand. Most of us just don't need to do that. It's really a bit sad when you see it, even if humorous at the same time. I mean to allow a cheap $200 handgun define who you are as a person. Pathetic.

The truth be known, I actually hope you can overcome this obsession. Get some self esteem. Maybe actually go out and buy a handgun of some sort and learn how to use it responsibly. The reality is though I think fanboys are funny, I truly wish you the best if you can get over it. Brands, models, and YouTube don't make a shooter just like the brand or model camera you own doesn't make you a photographer. A pen won't make you a writer and a brush won't make you an artist.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

I thought Junior High was in summer recess....... :mrgreen:


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Cait43 said:


> *Click to enlarge---->*
> View attachment 15612
> :mrgreen:


When I worked for gm, in the 90's, they had a F.A.R.T. circuit. Foot Actuated Retard Timer fart. This disabled the knock sensor to allow max loaded truck to get up the maxium grade.

I drive a Toyota and have a few Taurus. YMMV


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

Taurus is still in business ?


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

blackshirt said:


> It is possible to get a good Taurus...I have one.
> It all depends on how much of a gambling man you are.
> It is like going to a casino,You are gonna lose way more than you are ever gonna win.
> At least that has been my experience.


Excellent example.

It's funny how people look at going to a casino. My wife and I have been to 'The Boats' (in Bossier City, La.) three times, over a period of about ten years, each time with a hundred dollar limit established for each of us to play the 25 cent slot machines. We are not gamblers, but we liked the great seafood buffets and the free drinks delivered to the players, and also watching the more serious gamblers. Of those three trips, the only one that we considered 'productive' was one in which I was able to play for three hours on my hundred dollars, and still had enough left to pay for a nice meal for the two of us, and pay for the gas to go home with.

We considered it a great success. Of course, the actual tally for the three trips was over $500 for the casino and less than $100 for the two of us to carry away from the gambling floor.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

It is possible to own a Taurus and not be a Taurus fan...Look at me...I love my model 85.
Sometimes you have to know when to walk away.

How does the song go???

You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em
Know when to walk away....Know when to run......:smt082


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## Dmd74 (Jul 8, 2018)

I am new here to the forums and the first three threads I have read all pertain to debate over Taurus firearms. This makes my experiences thus far less enjoyable. Personally, with Taurus’s newer leadership I believe they are trying to repair their deservedly tarnished reputation. I own a G2. I also own a G36, VP9SK, S&W Shield PC, and others. Never had any issues with the G2, however, I also have $200 in aftermarket parts in it too. I guess for me it comes down to the fact that I pay for my firearms and no one is going to distract me from what I may want to buy. Also though, I don’t need anyone else’s validation on my purchases either. You do you.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

Dmd74 said:


> I am new here to the forums and the first three threads I have read all pertain to debate over Taurus firearms. This makes my experiences thus far less enjoyable. Personally, with Taurus's newer leadership I believe they are trying to repair their deservedly tarnished reputation. I own a G2. I also own a G36, VP9SK, S&W Shield PC, and others. Never had any issues with the G2, however, I also have $200 in aftermarket parts in it too. I guess for me it comes down to the fact that I pay for my firearms and no one is going to distract me from what I may want to buy. Also though, I don't need anyone else's validation on my purchases either. You do you.


Knock yourself out...So you have $200 in aftermarket parts on a G2?
So now you have a $400 dollar G2 that is worth $120 on trade in.
Like you said...It is your money.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Dmd74 said:


> I am new here to the forums and the first three threads I have read all pertain to debate over Taurus firearms. This makes my experiences thus far less enjoyable. Personally, with Taurus's newer leadership I believe they are trying to repair their deservedly tarnished reputation. I own a G2. I also own a G36, VP9SK, S&W Shield PC, and others. Never had any issues with the G2, however, I also have $200 in aftermarket parts in it too. *I guess for me it comes down to the fact that I pay for my firearms and no one is going to distract me from what I may want to buy.* Also though, I don't need anyone else's validation on my purchases either. You do you.


It's your money and you're free to do with it as you please, no one's trying to deny anyone of that right. However you have to take into consideration that there may be other people besides YOU who look to these forums and discussions looking for information as to which brand of gun to buy. You're not the only fart in the bathtub. Have you given any thought to that? If ten different people had negative opinions about any particular product and only two had positive. That would be a pretty good indication to steer away from that product. At least I would. You can't just go by YouTube video's and reviews. Many are bought and paid for by any particular manufacturer and it would be difficult if not impossible to differentiate which one's are and which one's aren't. Then there are people like Cannon who are free to make their own video's and glowing endorsements of whom you can't expect to admit that there's anything wrong with any of Taurus products in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

I don't know? But as for me if I'm happy with what I've bought, someone else's experience with said product wouldn't mean a God damn thing to me. I'd just let it go in one ear and out the other. Don't let it rain on your parade. There are far more other things that we as gun owners have to worry about that will make our experiences "far less enjoyable" than other people's opinions about a brand of handgun.

The way I look at things is that you're not going to get a $500 gun for under $200. Somethings got to give otherwise they would be putting all of the other gun manufacturers out of business. This has nothing to do with management. If Taurus were to go out and use better materials and be willing to pay and hire highly skilled employees they'd have to raise the prices of their products or they too would go out of business. You do get what you pay for. However there is a market for cheaply made guns which keeps Taurus going by filling that niche. If it breaks on you when you least expect it and especially if and when you do need it most you've got your own self to kick in the ass.

If you want to put $200 into a $200 gun that's your business and your business alone. I don't think that anyone on this forum is going to lose any sleep over it. I knew someone who once put a $2000 set of wheels on an old late 70's 4 door sedan. People got a good laugh out of that at the local car shows. What else could the owner of that car expect?


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## Dmd74 (Jul 8, 2018)

desertman said:


> It's your money and you're free to do with it as you please, no one's trying to deny anyone of that right. However you have to take into consideration that there may be other people besides YOU who look to these forums and discussions looking for information as to which brand of gun to buy. You're not the only fart in the bathtub. Have you given any thought to that? If ten different people had negative opinions about any particular product and only two had positive. That would be a pretty good indication to steer away from that product.


I certainly agree with your comments. To clarify, I didn't dump the money into the G2 in an effort to make it work. I did so prior to firing one round thru it. I got the gun for $200 as a truck gun and, in being aware of the reputation of Taurus, had some fun in working on the gun. I enjoy working on the firearm as much as shooting it. It's therapeutic. I look at it as spending the money that way1, having fun and relaxing. That being said though, I do not contend that others should not voice their opinions or temp to make other less experienced people aware of any potential faults. What I do think is that overly stating Taurus's prior issues in an attempt to dissuade others from buying their products seems a bit much. Ford once developed the Pinto and has come along way since.

Moreover though is that I feel as though people with differing views should be respectful in conveying those views. What I have read in this thread and others is petty name calling and childish behavior by both sides. That is why I said you do you. If you have $200 that you don't mind potentially using and losing for fun within your hobby so be it. If this is your sole weapon for self defense maybe focus on something with a better rep. That is the individuals decision. No amount of name calling, insinuating, or anything of the like is going to change that.


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## Dmd74 (Jul 8, 2018)

blackshirt said:


> Knock yourself out...So you have $200 in aftermarket parts on a G2?
> So now you have a $400 dollar G2 that is worth $120 on trade in.
> Like you said...It is your money.


Yep, I sure do. For me it's a hobby. I often put after market parts on the majority of my firearms as that is what I enjoy doing. I by no means wish to state that the weapon needed it, as I truthfully do not know. Nor do I wish to suggest that others do the same. As I keep saying, you do you. I would say that if I am focused on self defense I would use my Shield or VP9SK.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

Dmd74 said:


> Yep, I sure do. For me it's a hobby. I often put after market parts on the majority of my firearms as that is what I enjoy doing. I by no means wish to state that the weapon needed it, as I truthfully do not know. Nor do I wish to suggest that others do the same. As I keep saying, you do you. I would say that if I am focused on self defense I would use my Shield or VP9SK.


Whatever makes you happy. I wouldn't put $200.00 in a $200.00 gun, though. I'd rather buy a $500.00 gun that came ready to go. Or $800.00 on something special that required no aftermarket parts. You sound like you enjoy doing the work, so have fun.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Dmd74 said:


> I certainly agree with your comments. To clarify, I didn't dump the money into the G2 in an effort to make it work. I did so prior to firing one round thru it. I got the gun for $200 as a truck gun and, in being aware of the reputation of Taurus, had some fun in working on the gun. I enjoy working on the firearm as much as shooting it. It's therapeutic. I look at it as spending the money that way1, having fun and relaxing. That being said though, I do not contend that others should not voice their opinions or temp to make other less experienced people aware of any potential faults. What I do think is that overly stating Taurus's prior issues in an attempt to dissuade others from buying their products seems a bit much. Ford once developed the Pinto and has come along way since.
> 
> Moreover though is that I feel as though people with differing views should be respectful in conveying those views. What I have read in this thread and others is petty name calling and childish behavior by both sides. That is why I said you do you. If you have $200 that you don't mind potentially using and losing for fun within your hobby so be it. If this is your sole weapon for self defense maybe focus on something with a better rep. That is the individuals decision. No amount of name calling, insinuating, or anything of the like is going to change that.


Guns and restoring cars are my thing. I've worked on both for almost my entire life. Partly because I was always interested in mechanical objects and partly because I hated having to depend on others for what I could do myself. I've got to know how to completely dis-assemble and re-assemble every gun that I own. I too have bought a lot of aftermarket parts for my guns. Some of those parts improved the gun itself, some were for aesthetics. I never liked those plastic triggers on Glocks so I replaced them all with anodized aluminum. The standard Glock slide locks are too short and hard to manipulate so I replaced them with longer ones. I also added a ported barrel to a G30 and since added one on my G26 along with stainless steel dress up pins for aesthetics. There's an entire industry that centers around aftermarket parts for those of us that like to work on guns. I thank God for that. But I could never understand putting any money into something that's just not worth it. But it's not up to me and not my business to tell someone not to if that's their thing. If I were to ever sell one of my Glocks I might recoup the cost of the gun and what I put into it. I've seen plenty of upgraded guns for sale at gun shows and in gun stores that have been upgraded selling for more. There are people who may want those upgrades but don't know how to do it themselves and are intimidated beyond a simple field strip. No offense but I just don't think you'll ever get your money back on a cheap handgun no matter what the upgrades are.

Unlike you I will do everything in my power to dissuade anyone that doesn't know any better from buying a product that has had as many issues as Taurus. That's not overly stating anything. Taurus products are what they are. There's no way of sugarcoating that fact. I could not in good conscience do otherwise. Many people who log on to this forum I'm guessing are indeed looking for a good weapon for self defense that don't know any better. In which case their life may one day depend on that firearm. These people can't tell the difference between a Taurus and a Glock. Unlike the Ford Pinto and the Edsel both of which were anomalies, Chevy of course had the Vega, Chrysler had their "K" car. There have been just too many issues with too many of Taurus products and their customer service.

I'm not really sure what you mean by a "truck gun"? Unless you're referring to a gun that you can just leave in your vehicle while it's unattended and if it gets stolen it's no big deal as the gun really isn't worth that much to begin with? Which unto itself is not a good idea, especially if the thief being what they are uses it to commit another crime. I don't know about you? But when I'm in my truck or any one of my cars, my firearm(s) is on my person at all times. If I've got to get out of my vehicle for any reason whatsoever I can be reassured that there's no way in hell that it could ever be stolen. Cheap gun or not.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

I normally try to stay out of the whole Taurus debate, because I only have personal experience with their revolvers. I have not had any problems with my revolvers. That being said, I do have some knowledge from working a bit at the LGS. I have shooting Buddies who have purchased G2s, some are happy with them, and some are not.

What I can say with absolute certainty is that their CS does suck. We have a Taurus semi-auto that has been back to Taurus for over 8 weeks. It went there for replacement of a sight screw, the screw is proprietary and Taurus would not even ship the screw to our shop. Many attempts have been made to contact their CS for an update, but needless to say they have not returned any calls, or replied to any Email attempts. This is ridiculous as we have a customer who is still waiting for his handgun to come back.

The LGS is absolutely done selling Taurus guns. The shop prides itself on taking care of the customer after the sale, and gets a lot of repeat business. They are out of the Taurus business!!


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

MoMan said:


> I normally try to stay out of the whole Taurus debate, because I only have personal experience with their revolvers. I have not had any problems with my revolvers. That being said, I do have some knowledge from working a bit at the LGS. I have shooting Buddies who have purchased G2s, some are happy with them, and some are not.
> 
> What I can say with absolute certainty is that their CS does suck. We have a Taurus semi-auto that has been back to Taurus for over 8 weeks. It went there for replacement of a sight screw, the screw is proprietary and Taurus would not even ship the screw to our shop. Many attempts have been made to contact their CS for an update, but needless to say they have not returned any calls, or replied to any Email attempts. This is ridiculous as we have a customer who is still waiting for his handgun to come back.
> 
> The LGS is absolutely done selling Taurus guns. The shop prides itself on taking care of the customer after the sale, and gets a lot of repeat business. They are out of the Taurus business!!


I agree...If i need something for my Kahr or any other brand handgun, I can go to their website and order any part i need.
Why should you ever have to call or send in a gun for a sight screw,guide rod,Etc Etc.


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## oheron16 (Nov 7, 2017)

*G2,G2S and Slim PT 709*



blackshirt said:


> Too bad they are gonna replace the Slim with the the G2S...which is a single stack G2.
> Another great concept which will be poorly executed....My guess will be the poor trigger poor fit and finish
> will carry over to the G2S


at the local gun range I've asked the range officers from time to time what kind of guns they have seen problems with- the G2
was one they'd seen crack, blow up etc. on more than one occasion. I have a PT709 and have put over 1000 rounds through it,
with just an occasional mis-feed here and there. I carry a Glock 26.


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Dmd74, I've had my G2 for 3yrs and like you I bought it because of the low price and all the outstanding reviews of the G2 in magazines and on You Tube. My thought originally was a low cost truck gun but the more range time I had with the gun I decided its not a truck gun for me after a few months it became my EDC. Its been without fault digesting everything I've feed it. The G2 its a sweet low cost compact double stack that works.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

.


MoMan said:


> What I can say with absolute certainty is that their CS does suck. We have a Taurus semi-auto that has been back to Taurus for over 8 weeks. It went there for replacement of a sight screw, the screw is proprietary and Taurus would not even ship the screw to our shop. Many attempts have been made to contact their CS for an update, but needless to say they have not returned any calls, or replied to any Email attempts. This is ridiculous as we have a customer who is still waiting for his handgun to come back.
> 
> The LGS is absolutely done selling Taurus guns. The shop prides itself on taking care of the customer after the sale, and gets a lot of repeat business. They are out of the Taurus business!!


My problem with Taurus CS also is that it doesn't exist, and the entire parts issue is ridiculous. I can understand that "maybe" they are concerned about a lawsuit if someone improperly installs a part in one of their guns but, come On! A friggin sight screw and you can't even get that? I have had a couple SCCY semis which broke off the ejector pin. Called the company, got the part in two days via UPS, no charge. Changed them out and good to go.

That's a big reason why I won't buy any more Taurus products.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

Define truck gun?????????


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...As differentiated from an _in_definite truck gun.

So, the real question is: Is it the gun, or the truck, which is definite?
Enquiring minds want to know.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

blackshirt said:


> Define truck gun?????????


It's sorta like a house gun, which protects a house. A truck gun protects a truck. A very cheap truck.

:mrgreen:


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

blackshirt said:


> Define truck gun?????????


I am sure that the term has different meanings to different people. My definition would be a gun that has less value than my first line guns. It could be an old faithful with the bluing worn off, or maybe a less expensive gun like a Ruger security 9. My definition of a truck gun would never include a Taurus.

GW


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

goldwing said:


> ...My definition of a truck gun would never include a Taurus.


No. Of course not.
A "truck gun" must be completely functional and reliable, just like an EDC gun.

I just do not understand placing any reliance upon either an unproven or a known-unreliable tool.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

blackshirt said:


> Define truck gun?????????


This is a truck gun


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Exactly!


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

I guess i am not a truck gun guy then....Because my gun is always on my hip, never to be stolen and used to commit a crime.

I guess i am hip gun kinda guy.

I may have started a new term.:smt082


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Not only are you a hip gun guy, but you're way cool, too! :yawinkle:



Two hipsters were walking down the street when a bell fell out of the church steeple and crashed to the pavement just inches away from them.
"Man, what was that?" said one hipster.
"B-flat," replied the other.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Not only are you a hip gun guy, but you're way cool, too! :yawinkle:
> 
> Two hipsters were walking down the street when a bell fell out of the church steeple and crashed to the pavement just inches away from them.
> "Man, what was that?" said one hipster.
> "B-flat," replied the other.


:help:


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