# Help deciding on first gun



## Jeff25 (Aug 10, 2013)

So i am looking for a hundgun pretty much for a nightstand and possibly a future concealed carry gun. I have narrowed it down to 2 guns. 

The first being the walther pk380. The reason I was looking at this gun is because of the price at 350 is a pretty good price on a decent gun

The second gun is the glock 19. It is running for 499 at my local store which is the top of my budget. My only concern is, is it to big for a concealed carry

What are your guys thoughts on these 2 firearms


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I'd like to chime in, but I don't know enough about either gun to voice an opinion. 

Whatever you end up with, hope you're happy and be safe.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

If you are going to use a .380 for personal defense, you had better become expert with it.
The cartridge is underpowered, which means that you need to make each and every shot hit exactly where you want it to go.
This requires extensive practice, and maybe a lot of expert coaching as well.
(I carry a .380, and I am pretty good with it, so I speak from experience.)

Double-stack Glocks are thick, and harder to conceal than single-stack Glocks.
Glocks are "blocky" and hard-edged, but they are no harder to conceal than many other guns.
You have to modify your wardrobe to fit the gun in any case.

Here's the bad news:
No matter what pistol you choose to carry, or with which to defend your home, you will need to learn to shoot it very well.
And pistol shooting is not easy to do.
So we're back to: You need to practice extensively, and also to get some expert coaching.
Figure that as part of the price of the gun.

And then there's the holster-and-belt issue...
(We'll save that for later.)


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## BigCityChief (Jan 2, 2013)

Stay away from the Walther


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## XD40inAVL (Feb 1, 2013)

Find a range that rents guns and shoot different makes/models. 

I've shot the Glock 19, and I found it non-ergonomic, meaning that it just doesn't feel right in my hand. Had I bought one, I could probably get "used to it" but I'd rather go with a gun that I liked from the onset, which is what I did. The wife and I went to our LGS/range and rented a number of guns.

I do have a XD40 4" which is the same size (dimension wise) as a Glock 19. I don't even attempt to carry it due to it's size, but opted for the sub-compact version, with a shorter barrel and grip. I also carry an XDs, which is basically the same dimensions as the sub-compact but lighter and thinner and easier to conceal.

If you buy a gun you don't like after the first 50 rounds you put through it, you probably never will like it. You may learn to shoot it well, but still not like it.


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## Vodoun da Vinci (Apr 6, 2007)

Before a newbie decides what he needs and can handle he needs to shoot everything he can get his hands on. One cannot make make an informed decision about which handgun suits his abilities and situation if he has not shot nor become proficient with any hand gun at all. Every shooter is different - there are those that will tell you that "x" pistol in "Y" caliber is the ultimate for everyone *but* this is not the case.

If you are serious, I strongly suggest you hire or rent a mentor - someone who has experience and technique - to guide you. Find a "gun buddy" and visit a shooting range or take a class from a certified firearms instructor. Shoot a variety of hand guns in a variety of caliber enough to find a useful starting point and then begin the journey. This will not be cheap or fast but like Steve says....it's part of the price of yer first gun.

Welcome to the handgun family and please take time to move slowly and safely towards your ultimate objective. We are here to help you.

Good luck!

VooDoo


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## Jayghf1978 (Jun 11, 2013)

Would you buy a car without test driving it or learn about its specifications??

Like the experts who spoke before me, you need to test out the guns and practice extensively with it before you can make an informed decision. I can only advice you on which to sample, but you should decide what to buy. I did not like many of the suggestions my expert friends suggested, and went out and bought a CZ because I loved how it felt at the range.

With all that said, Glock is by far the most popular handgun in the US, and for very good reasons. While it loses on the ergonomics department, it gets a leg up on reliability, consistency, and accuracy. I did not like it right away, but I'm sure it would grow on me eventually.

Good luck.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Jeff25 said:


> So i am looking for a hundgun pretty much for a nightstand and possibly a future concealed carry gun. I have narrowed it down to 2 guns.
> 
> The first being the walther pk380. The reason I was looking at this gun is because of the price at 350 is a pretty good price on a decent gun
> 
> ...


Personally, I own one (G19) and have shot, on two separate occasions, the PK380. The Walther is a wonderfully designed gun that just seemed to "fit like a glove" in my hand, but I did not like where the safety is located or how it seems to operate the opposite from what I am used to.

With the Glock 19? What can I say other than I shoot that pistol better than I have ever shot any other pistol I own...even better than my 92F, which is saying a lot. If I had to make the choice that you are going to make, I would have to go with the G19. The 9mm Luger has about 50% more muzzle energy than the 9mm Kurz does, and the ammo is usually more plentiful and a little cheaper. Hope this helps.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Jayghf1978 said:


> Would you buy a car without test driving it or learn about its specifications??
> 
> Like the experts who spoke before me, you need to test out the guns and practice extensively with it before you can make an informed decision. I can only advice you on which to sample, but you should decide what to buy. I did not like many of the suggestions my expert friends suggested, and went out and bought a CZ because I loved how it felt at the range.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's just me and I'm weird, but of all the firearms I've owned over the years, not once did I test shoot one before I bought it. I did my homework and checked out a particular gun before I decided to buy it.

I have huge hands (hard to find gloves that fit properly) and I thought that would be a challenge, but it's been fine so far.

I don't even think I've ever considered a gun that fits my hands and feels good in them. I buy for brand, model and caliber. I guess it's me that adapts to the gun, rather than modify a gun to fit my hands.

I see quite a bit recommendations to shoot a gun before you buy it. That's just not feasible all the time. Most gun shops don't have a range, and the ones that do, may not have the gun in stock that you want to shoot and consider buying. I've yet to hear of a gun shop special ordering in a gun so that you could try it out.

BTW.....I'm also a motorcycle nut, and I've bought lots of bikes w/o riding them first. My last purchase was a new BMW that cost me $16,400.00 out the door. I didn't ride it until the day I went to get it and ride it home.


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## Jayghf1978 (Jun 11, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Maybe it's just me and I'm weird, but of all the firearms I've owned over the years, not once did I test shoot one before I bought it. I did my homework and checked out a particular gun before I decided to buy it. I have huge hands (hard to find gloves that fit properly) and I thought that would be a challenge, but it's been fine so far. I don't even think I've ever considered a gun that fits my hands and feels good in them. I buy for brand, model and caliber. I guess it's me that adapts to the gun, rather than modify a gun to fit my hands. I see quite a bit recommendations to shoot a gun before you buy it. That's just not feasible all the time. Most gun shops don't have a range, and the ones that do, may not have the gun in stock that you want to shoot and consider buying. I've yet to hear of a gun shop special ordering in a gun so that you could try it out. BTW.....I'm also a motorcycle nut, and I've bought lots of bikes w/o riding them first. My last purchase was a new BMW that cost me $16,400.00 out the door. I didn't ride it until the day I went to get it and ride it home.


 I can certainly respect that, as I have a bit of impulsive buying tendencies myself. I am currently considering a Kimber 1911 even though I have never shot one, but wants one purely based on what I have read and been told about.

This strategy however, may not seem suitable for the original poster. Clearly he is asking for advices to prevent buyer's remorse, evidently less affluent than you or I.

I would repeat my original advice to the asker, try out your potential candidates first if you want to reduce the chance of second guessing yourself. What I like may or may not fit you, only you will know. And the only way to find out is to try.


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## Vodoun da Vinci (Apr 6, 2007)

I'm not sure about where everyone shoots *but* where I hang out (and even at work...) there are "Gun Buddies" who you can set up a meeting at the range and try each others pistols. The first handgun I purchased was a Dan Wesson .357 magnum revolver with target grips. I purchased 100 rounds of Remington full house .357 ammon to go with it and then I went to the local gun club and bought a membership and a few targets. Went to the range, set up a target, loaded 6 rounds and let it fly.

My grip was so high on the gun and the recoil so mean that it drew blood the first shot on the web of my right hand....I managed to hit the target all six times but the rounds were all over the whole target. One older guy on the range watched me shooting and saw me retrieve the target and making a makeshift bandage out of a t-Shirt from my car and took pity on me. He showed me in about 10 minutes how to change my grip and how to stand. several others chimed in and in another hour I was shooting groups where all 6 rounds touched each other at 25 yards.

That was back in the '70's and I have learned a lot and trained a lot since then. I have owned a lot of guns and shot many, many more that belonged to Gun Buddies and that I rented. If one is persistent and determined, one can learn a lot of this (including which gun to buy) by asking a lot of questions and studying/reading and watching others. Other than trying different guns, there is no "one size fits all" for many of us - for other hand gunners they can adapt quickly to many different guns and it is not necessary for them to be judicious about their choices.

There are a lot of good guys and potential Gun Buddies in the sport of hand gunning. There are always a few pits and problem children but most of the guys I have met at the range are good eggs and will help if you are courteous and sincere and willing to contribute a box of ammo or contribute to lane rental or whatever. I can handle a gun now and tell if it is likely to be a good shooter in my hands but I can't really recommend a starting point for another inexperienced shooter unless I see him shoot and have interaction with him real time. If pushed to recommend one pistol to start with and hope it works out?

Any of the better Colt 1911 variants are likely to begin a life long love affair with this type and it is probably the best "generic" recommendation I can make...it is the most copied type in history still I believe because it is classic and fits most shooters requirements right out of the box. A great place to start.

VooDoo


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## Vodoun da Vinci (Apr 6, 2007)

I just wanted to add that my "primary" gun has changed as I have aged. I have smallish hands for a man 6' 3" and 190 lbs. My primary home defense weapon is a 12 ga backed up with a Beretta 92S - the old one with the mag release in the middle of the grip before it was adopted by the US Military. I love that pistol but as I have aged it is too wide (double stack mag) for me to control in rapid fire with desired accuracy. My Wife's favorite (and first gun) is a Colt Officers ACP....since it is a single stack and narrower it became my primary as it is too snappy for her to control at all.

Now we are both settled on Colt 1903 Model M's and she is once again *very* confident and highly accurate.

A lot of what best suits a particular shooter is stature, hand size, experience, training, and mindset/desire. My niece was in search of her first gun recently and her Dad had the mindset of "Glock, Glock, Glock" and bought her one after the other of various models and paid for a trainer. She shot really well but always had doubts that her gun was right for her and was not at all confident until she went shooting with my /wife and I and shot her Officers ACP, my Berreta, and a gun buddies S & W 1911. She fell in love with the 1911 style and now has Dan Wesson 1911 that she loves, feels confident with, and controls in rapid fire with the best of them.

It's very hard for someone to pick a first gun for another person...there's has to be some degree of fishing so I'd recommend you buy a decent gun (don't shop for cheap if you can help it...) knowing that if your first choice isn't your soul mate you can recover enough of the purchase price to try something else as you gain experience and ability.

VooDoo


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

A glock for a nightstand piece is ok , but you have to ask your self. Will you have a round chambered?
? Is anyone else gonna have access to the Glock? Do you live alone , have children?
Glocks are very reliable loose fitting guns. 
But there is not a manual safety. 
There are made to fire in a very similar single action sensitivity mode ,,with a round chambered.
Personally I would go with a 92 beretta or similar. IMO


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## Jeff25 (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks for all the info. I don't think I would have buyers remorse with the glock. I just don't know if I want to spend that much money. But then again I'm a little nervous that if I got the pk380 I may be unhappy with it


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Since you mentioned this gun is intended for home protection & possible carry... I would recommend going with at least a 9mm.

Nothing wrong with the .380's... I carry a Sig P238 daily. I just think it's a little underpowered for home defense. A larger frame/caliber would fulfil both roles just fine.

Just my 2 cents since your asking... get something that will be adequate and not lacking in one or more catagories... and it can be an enjoyable range gun as well as your HD/EDC weapon... and consider the suggestions from pic's post.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Jeff25 said:


> Thanks for all the info. I don't think I would have buyers remorse with the glock. I just don't know if I want to spend that much money. But then again I'm a little nervous that if I got the pk380 I may be unhappy with it


Well, seeing as though you are new to handguns, maybe you will not find the safety operation strange. Usually, to Americans anyway, we sweep the safety down, but the Walther works the opposite way. To me it seemed backwards because I am used to the "American" way a safety is operated, but to someone new, it may seem just fine.

The PK380 fits the hand really well, and I could shoot it well too due to a lower recoiling .380 ACP round and that "glove" like fit. I still prefer the grip angle of the Glock, but some people hate it. When our son still lived at home, we would go to the range and he just could not get good hits with it. He did better with guns that had a grip angle similar to the 1911.


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## Vodoun da Vinci (Apr 6, 2007)

+1 on the grip angle idea...I have shot a few 1911 variations and dearly love my Wife's Officers ACP (I cannot shoot Glocks and get accurate, rapid follow ups...) and find my Colt 1903 .32 ACP (mouse gun...not recommended for a newbie) to have a bit different grip angle and "feel" that makes this pistol inherently accurate in my hands and my Wife's hands. The ergonomics of the various handgun offerings are extreme and can only be settled by handling and shooting.

We had a Walther PPK/S a few years ago and traded it for the current Colt Officers ACP. We loved the gun but as it was my Wifes primary pistol she felt she could not "kill anything with it" due to the caliber. Now she is 56 and has some arthritis and weakness in the hands and her Officers ACP is simply too damn much gun for her to shoot. The .32 ACP Model M is awesome and she can handle it, feed it, rack it, and put 4 rounds in fast cadence (less than a second) into a group that you can cover with a hand. Less than 4".

We feel that 4 rounds of hyper performance .32 ACP delivered with serious intent and confidence is better than a .45 with little chance of an accurate and fast follow up. She's also rediscovered her Dad's S&W model 19 .357 magnum with .38 special loads and Hogue rubber grips this weekend. There are lots of things that work well - the key is to look and ask and try and study. I don't see really how one could go far wrong with the Walther .380 as a starter if that appeals to you and feels good in the hand. And after you learn more it could become a trade in or maybe kept for different circumstances if you find that a 1911 variant or a Glock or a Springfield XD variant or a Beretta variant works much better for ya.

VooDoo


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Get the Glock 19 I own 2 of them and love them. I tend to carry A S&W 3913 that I bought used for $300 that I carry more than any other gun. However I suggest from my experience a used Sig P228 is a great gun I bought mine for $350 and you can also try a XDM 3.8 and have compact or full size depending on mag you put in. Hope that helps.


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## XD40inAVL (Feb 1, 2013)

Get my gun, get my gun....... is bad advise.

I own XD's (5 total), I have shot a Glock, and I based on that I will never own one.

Go to a range that has rentals. Handle different guns, rent and shoot different guns, then YOU make the decision.

Look at Glocks, XD's, S&W's and others, but don't buy any because I or another anonymous poster says "buy what I have". We like our choice, you may think it sucks.


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## daniellawecki (Aug 10, 2013)

Get a 1911 clone 100yrs of defending Americans can,t go wrong everyone should have at least one. I have Sringfield 1911A1 & a Colt 1911 and they will not let you down. We have a Action Pistol league at the club I shoot SWC 200 cast bullets out of both no problems. These boys will hold 3'' groups all day long at 50yrds.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

XD40inAVL said:


> "Get my gun" is bad advice...Don't buy a gun because I or another anonymous poster says "buy what I have."
> Go to a range that has rentals. Handle different guns, rent and shoot different guns, then YOU make the decision...
> [heavily edited, with apologies, by M1911A1]


This is extremely good advice.
Listen to the man.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Steer clear of a .380, unless you are very proficient with a handgun. 

A 9mm is a good solid bet as far as caliber goes.


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## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

If you buy a first gun without trying a Glock and a CZ you are making a mistake.


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## northstar19 (Aug 11, 2013)

If you are buying your first handgun, and you're considering a Glock, please take note: Some people complain that the takedown is difficult (even painful), and others complain that racking the slide is rather difficult, too. You can check out both of those in a gunshop, before you buy the gun. And if you're going to buy one of the smaller .380 pistols for carry, please take note of this, as well: The .380 is a 9mm short. Its recoil is snappy in a pocket pistol. New shooters, especially, say they find the recoil uncomfortable. For this reason, they don't like to practice with the pistol. But practice is essential. And if you're considering an even bigger caliber in a pocket gun, expect even more recoil. However, after a few visits to the range, you can probably get used to the recoil. Finally, since you're looking at .380's for carry, try to get a look at the Ruger LCP. It's a much-admired pocket pistol, and Ruger has recently improved the sights, the trigger, and the grip, making a first-rate pistol still better. The cost is about $300.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Here's the bad news:
> No matter what pistol you choose to carry, or with which to defend your home, you will need to learn to shoot it very well.
> And pistol shooting is not easy to do.
> So we're back to: You need to practice extensively, and also to get some expert coaching.
> Figure that as part of the price of the gun.


Excellent advice, as always.

If you can't rent, borrow, or tag along with someone who shoots regularly, and will let you shoot for help in buying ammo, then you should buy something in a full sized pistol and start practicing, ideally under the tutelage of an instructor. When you are good with a full sized handgun, whether self-taught or professionally instructed, THEN consider something for carry and either learn to carry what you have or swap for something smaller and learn to shoot it. You can entertain yourself all you want playing 'what if' and 'which is best' on the Internet...we all do that...but when it comes down to making practical decisions, do that after you get some shooting and safety skills. Those skills matter much, much more than which equipment you use.


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## tonyjh (Dec 31, 2008)

Don't forget the Kahr line of pistols either - I have a Kahr P9 and love it!


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## malonezn1972 (Jun 30, 2013)

I don't have any experience with the Glock 19, but I can say from experience that the Walther PK380 is an EXCELLENT gun. For one thing, most 380s I have fired have really heavy recoil. the recoil on the PK380 is the lightest of any pistol I have ever fired other than a .22. Also, a lot of 380s are finicky about ammo. My daughter and I have fired several types of ammo through it from blunt tipped target ammo, to round tip FMJ, to JHP and have yet to have a single FTF or FTE. It is also fully ambidextrous, if that is a concern.

If you don't mind a DAO, I would also suggest looking at the Sig P250 9mm subcompact, which is my personal CCW. It is similar in size to the PK380 and the G19, and is also an EXCELLENT gun. Price-wise, it is in the middle of the PK380 and G19 ($429 at Academy Sports and Outdoors.)


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## Hurryin' Hoosier (Jan 8, 2011)

Don't limit yourself to just those two choices. Keep an open mind. There are a lot of good guns out there.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

As Paratrooper said I've never test fired any of my guns either, I just bought 'em cause I liked them but there were certain makes that I steered clear of based on my research. I swore at one time that I'd never buy a Glock it took a while for me to warm up to polymer framed guns until I bought a Walther P-22 and a Ruger SR-22, and it wasn't long after that I bought two Glocks a G26 9mm and G30 .45, I sincerely doubt that you will have buyers remorse, expect to pay between five and six hundred for a new one, you'll probably keep it for a long time and the expenditure will be worth it. Personally my favorite is my Kahr MK 40 all stainless, it is however a bit pricey between seven and eight hundred, it's small size all stainless steel construction and in my opinion exceptional quality make it a winner in my book, I've carried it ever since the day I bought it.


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## fotojo (Jan 2, 2013)

Find Store/Range that rents what they sell, you need to shoot and see how they feel and handle. Do yourself a favor and stay away from the .380 for your first gun, I took my conceal carry class, and some defense classes from local Police Officers and they indicate they would not carry anything that did not stat with a 4. They gave several stories of the bad guy taking direct hits with smaller Caliber Guns and still living long enough to do harm and in so cases inflict fatal injuries. So these folk's telling you that you need to practice and be real good with smaller cals. are not doing you any favors, as one stat he gave was bad guy could travel up 30ft after taking direct hit to heat and still wound or possibly kill you before expiring. No matter what you buy make sure it is of high quality do not let check book make the decision, save a bit longer look for some better deals this thing has to go bang should you ever need it, and you are comfortable shooting it. Practice, Practice, Practice, including drawing from holster.


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