# When do you slip inside the trigger guard?



## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

In a real defensive situation, at what point do you place your finger inside the guard? Every week I see Lt. Horatio Caine with gun in both hands, fully trained on the perp standing over his victim, screaming "Police, put the gun down!", and he's still got his finger outside the guard, along the slide. I know it's just TV but I'm sure they have LE consultants on the show.

I'm curious about what is LE protocol, but more importantly I'd really like to know what would you guys do, and therefore what should I do?

Say it's the middle of the night and you hear an intruder. Assuming I know the whereabouts of my entire family (i.e. behind me) and I choose to make my way from my bedroom towards the threat. It seems to me if I'm holding the gun w/ both hands, in a ready position angled down as I make my way through doors etc. I might already be on the trigger, but I don't know if this correct. Would your finger be on the trigger at this point in the situation? If not, say you see someone in the living room, back to you, picking up your TV. Your raise and train your weapon - now do you cover the trigger? What about the point at which you positively ID the guy as an intruder and are trained on him. Are you now inside the guard? Or do you still have the patience to wait and see what he is going to do?

To change the situation slightly, I gather the entire family in the master bedroom (again behind me) and decide to wait there with my firearm trained on the doorway or top of the stairs etc. I imagine I would be on the trigger at this point, but this may be very wrong since I haven't made a positve ID at this point.

Where would you guys be with this type of scenario? At what point do you cover the "go" button? When you want to be completely ready to shoot; when you have made the decision you are willing to shoot; or only when you are actually going to shoot? While this last one sounds like the correct textbook answer, in a life threatening situation aren't you at some point correct to become more concerned with having the quickest possible reaction time and being first to get off?

Assuming the answer is to stay off the trigger until you have made a 100% commitment to actually fire, any tips in how to train for this at the range? Any drills etc?

I'm new here but already value the input and advice you guys provide.

Thanks!


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I never put my finger inside the guard until I am ready to squeeze.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

In an intruder situation it is just me, the wife, and the dog. The dog is now deaf poor guy. We all sleep in the same room so I'd be in the hole with the finger resting on go pointed at the entry point. My pistol is DA first shot with a long pull. I'd wait and not hunt so no worries about tripping. We have two entrances to the bedroom but one is blocked so they would have to come through the bathroom which has a night light. I'd know who it wasn't before I pulled the trigger. If you need a gun and the situation is urgent I'd be in the hole as soon as the gun were in front of me and coming up on the target. If it were a situation were I was alarmed but had no threat in front of me it would be along side at the ready. To me these are correct choices depending on the threat level. Any type of recreational shooting no fingering the trigger or inside the gard till you are facing your target and are ready to shoot. Pistol is always pointed in safe or intended direction.


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## SemoShooter (Jul 5, 2007)

My vote is never to have you finger on the trigger until you are going to shoot. The training that I have taken from experts supports this. In a high stress situation with your finger on the trigger if you just get startled you quite likely will flinch and pull the trigger.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

As with so many things, "it depends."

During a draw-and-fire stroke, as when there is no question that you're going to shoot the guy as soon as you clear leather and get a "flash sight picture" or other index, we are normally taught that the finger enters the trigger guard after the hands come together. This would be at Count 4 in a 5-Count draw, or at Count 3 in a 4-Count draw. In this scenario, the safety (if any) should be off and the finger on the trigger by the time the gun reaches eye level.

If holding someone at gunpoint, we leave the finger off the trigger. Some schools of thought say that one should not have the weapon pointed directly at the opponent, but rather have it in Low Ready with the safety (if any) engaged and the finger off the trigger. Others teach us to point in, but to keep the finger "in register" and well clear of the trigger.

I do not know any serious instructor who advocates a finger on the trigger until the target is identified and a decision to fire has been consciously made. TV is a poor role model and a lousy learning tool.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks all for your thoughtful responses. It seems you are all pretty much on the same page.

To make sure I understand (and please correct me if I’m wrong):

Placing the finger inside the guard is not the last step in the highest state of readiness. The highest state of readiness still has the finger outside the trigger guard. Rather, it would be more accurate to consider placing the finger inside the guard as the first step in the firing sequence. 

Mike, excuse my ignorance, but I’m unsure of what is meant by “in register”. You also mentioned that when holding someone at gun point your finger should be off the trigger. Do these two things mean outside of the trigger guard (i.e. along the slide) or may this mean the finger may be inside the guard, but away from and not physically touching the trigger, such as within the trigger guard but up against the inside front of the guard? I’m just not clear if “off the trigger” and “in register” also includes being outside the guard as well. 

Sorry for sounding so dense, but I just want to be sure. I take all this stuff pretty seriously. I guess the only dumb question is the one not asked.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Finger outside the trigger guard until the last thing before the trigger is pulled.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Tony's basically on the money. Placing the finger inside the trigger guard occurs once the hands are "clapped" together and the gun is coming on target during the firing stroke. You may, however, be drawing directly to gunpoint, in which case you do not want your finger to enter the trigger guard. Or you may be covering a doorway in home defense, and the finger should stay off the trigger for that, lest you fire before you have positively ID'd your target (see Rule Four).

"In register" is gun-school jargon. Sorry about that! It essentially means finger outside the trigger gurad, and indexed by feel on something on the gun. On a 1911, it might be the slide stop pin that protrudes from the right side of the frame. On a Beretta 92, it might be the trigger bar. On a Glock, it might be the takedown lever. I have even seen registers up in the ejection port, but I find that wretchedly uncomfortable. Anyway, I am sure you get the idea.

If the finger is inside the trigger guard, it should be "prepping" the trigger for a shot (taking up the trigger slack, etc.). If there's no intent to fire immediately, the finger should be in register (completely outside the trigger guard).

I can probably take some pics if you need visual illustration.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks Mike. I think it's clear now. Terms like "in register" and "off the trigger" also mean outside the trigger guard. If I am putting my picker in the hole I should be in process of firing my weapon.

I will concentrate on this at the range. Usually I've been lazy in this regard. For instance, when shooting at frontal silhouettes I would come up on target, slip my finger in but then take my time aiming and what not before getting the shot off. While this may be OK at the range it is probably not the best training for a real life situation. I look forward to my next range session because now I have something to work on. Commit to shoot and only then enter the guard and proceed directly to the shot. Obviously this is something that I will improve on with practice so practice I shall.

Appreciate everyone's input! BTW, though Horatio Caine apparently does adhere to the correct procedure, you are quite correct about Hollywood's portrayal of gunhandling techniques. I have no illusions about what I see on TV and in the movies. It's just entertainment and quite often it's not even that.

And as far as the gun school jargon goes, _keep the lingo coming!_


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Wyatt said:


> I will concentrate on this at the range. Usually I've been lazy in this regard. For instance, when shooting at frontal silhouettes I would come up on target, slip my finger in but then take my time aiming and what not before getting the shot off. While this may be OK at the range it is probably not the best training for a real life situation. I look forward to my next range session because now I have something to work on. Commit to shoot and only then enter the guard and proceed directly to the shot.


One good way to practice this without going through the whole draw stroke (prohibited by many ranges) was suggested recently by the very knowledgeable member *milquetoast*. Start at Low Ready (or whatever depressed ready stance you like) with finger in register. _Smoothly_ - not necessarily quickly - bring the pistol to eye level, clicking off the safety (if any) as the hands begin to ascend. As the hands move from the Low Ready to the firing position, the finger finds the trigger.

You may "prep" the trigger if you choose and if the gun requires it (like a Glock). By the time the eye acquires the front sight, both shooter and gun should be fully ready to fire - safeties disengaged, trigger prepped, gun in a complete and proper firing grip, body and arms positioned to manage the shot.

Do this at home about a thousand times, then do it at the range.

Make very sure when practicing the draw stroke that two things happen:

1. The hands "clap" together well below eye level. This will give you maximum time to establish a proper two-hand grip and stance before the gun reaches eye level. _Most of the work of a smooth and fast draw-and-hit sequence is done well before the gun reaches eye level._
2. The finger doesn't enter the trigger guard until *after* the hands "clap" together.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

That sounds like a great drill and xlnt point about being able to practice this at home!!

Quick question, you mentioned that in the draw stroke you find the trigger in step 4 of a 5 step draw; and when coming up from the low ready you find the trigger as the gun moves towards eye level. This means that you are talking about situations where you have made the decision, while it is in one of these positions (ie in the holster or at LR), that you are actually going to discharge the weapon at the threat given that you should not enter the guard otherwise, right? From the discussion so far, my understanding is if I'm bringing the gun up for presentation, i.e. hold at gunpoint, then I should not be accessing the trigger. I ask because in the most likely HD scenario for me, I will not be making the decision to shoot from the leather or low ready. My plan is to be in wait mode in the bedroom, so I will likely have gun trained on doorway/staircase. I will now be practicing shooting from this position _with my finger outside the guard._

Also, at my range (indoor) they indeed do not allow working from the holster unless they have specifically cordoned off part of the facility for a class or other training for that purpose. Each stall also has an ammo/gun tray across it, at the limit line, so working from the low ready is probably not advisable either. What are your thoughts about the "medium ready" where the firearm is held in two hands at about chest level with the elbows bent so the gun is into the chest with the barrel angled down? From this position you only have to push out to extension and bring the gun up from chest to eye level. I can definitely practice from this position at the range but wanted your thoughts on it. I don't hear too much about this middle position (that's what one guy called it). It seems like it has certain advantages but I wonder what you guys think.


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

Rule 3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your target is sighted and you wish to fire at it. Simple. Your finger goes in the trigger guard when, and only when, you are about to send lead towards the target.

This rule is often broken, sometimes for what seem like good reasons, other times for very bad reasons. A DA trigger needs a harder, longer pull, and thus the delay involved in placing your finger first on the trigger and second making the pull is considerable, and against a single or safe action you will lose. Thus many people draw a DA with finger off the trigger (if your holster doesn't cover the trigger you need a new one), then once at ready place their finger on the trigger to mitigate the slower first pull. Also, people place their fingers on the trigger as an intimidation tactic ("Oh, you think I won't fire? Make my day"). The rationale for all this is that you must be imminently in need of firing your weapon to draw it in the first place. Thus you must wish to fire, or at least be justified in doing so, if the gun is in your hand. It sounds logical, but a nervous twitch is not the only thing that can fire a gun. If you find yourself having to run with that gun, or falling, banging into walls and the like, you will find that 12 pounds of unconscious pressure on the trigger is indeed very possible. Just for that reason, it is a dangerously bad habit even on a DA. That problem is exacerbated if you learn with a pistol that carries DA and switch to one that carries SA or a safe-action. With a single-action or safe-action trigger there simply is absolutely no question and absolutely no excuse. You put your finger on that trigger a split second before pulling it, otherwise you are in SERIOUS danger of an UD.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Wyatt said:


> Quick question, you mentioned that in the draw stroke you find the trigger in step 4 of a 5 step draw; and when coming up from the low ready you find the trigger as the gun moves towards eye level. This means that you are talking about situations where you have made the decision, while it is in one of these positions (ie in the holster or at LR), that you are actually going to discharge the weapon at the threat given that you should not enter the guard otherwise, right?


There's a difference between a draw-and-fire stroke and holding someone at gunpoint. In a stroke, you intend to fire as soon as the gun comes to eye level. The way to do this quickly is to enter the trigger guard (and possibly prep the trigger) as the gun moves from the "clap" position to eye level. Ditto from Low Ready.



> From the discussion so far, my understanding is if I'm bringing the gun up for presentation, i.e. hold at gunpoint, then I should not be accessing the trigger.


Correct. Some schools of thought say that the best "gunpoint" is Low Ready. You can't possibly ND into someone from Low Ready, so that makes some sense, and a shot from Low Ready can be executed in tenths of a second, the same time it takes to move the finger from register to trigger. Basically you move from Low Ready to eye level at the same time you move the finger.

Other schools of thought maintain the Low Ready is insufficiently intimidating and the muzzle must be on the bad guy. Again, the finger must be kept well off the trigger and only moved when the conscious decision to fire has been made.



> What are your thoughts about the "medium ready" where the firearm is held in two hands at about chest level with the elbows bent so the gun is into the chest with the barrel angled down?


This is actually the ready position I generally use, though with the muzzle basically already on target, only depressed a few degrees. It works better with the Modern Isosceles shooting stance I use, versus the Low Ready which is better suited to Weaver. Finger is off the trigger, and on signal I just push out to full extension, find the trigger as I pick up my visual index, and fire the shot.

I've attached a pic. Please pardon the mall ninja gear, I was practicing for deployment.


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