# advice with which .45 and where to buy from



## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

I am new to handguns, but I have shot a few and I have decided that I want a 45. I will be using the gun for protection in the woods while I am bowhunting. I need some advice on what model and brand that you would suggest I look at, as well as what type of thigh holster. I am very interested in the composite style holster that locks the gun in place. Also, where is a good place online to look at pricing for guns and supplies? Thank you for any advice.


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

Are you thinking high-capacity double-stack... or single-stack? Are you thinking all-metal (heavy) or polymer (light) frame? If you're doing lots of walking/climbing... I'd be inclined to go with a light poly single-stack (which I could also use for conceal-carry). I have a Kahr CW45 ($450+ range) which only weighs 20 oz. (6+1 cap, but you can also use Kahr 7 rd. mag in it for 7+1). Very reliable...I love it for many reasons. But you've got lots to choose from if you want something bigger. I don't know anything about thigh holsters. Online big suppliers; Bud's seems to have about the best prices these days. I haven't dealt with them personally but have heard generally good things.


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

Single stack? Double Stack? I am thinking a polymer frame would be nice due to inclement weather and beating in the brush. Less weight is an added advantage in my opinion. I am not too concerned about a smaller size for concealed carry, because I probably never will. Any thoughts on brands to stay away from would help. I need something that is reliable in all conditions.


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

Single Stack Magazine - a magazine whose inside is just slightly wider than the width of the round it carries. The cartridges are stacked in a single column.



Double Stack Magazine - a magazine that utilizes a body wider than the cartridge it is designed to hold. The cartridges placed into it are staggered, allowing more cartridges into a single magazine. The top of the magazine is either tapered or inhibited by feed lips so that only one cartridge is released per cycling of the action.


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thank you for the explanation. I have only shot single stacks in the past, but I want something with at least 8-10 round capacity or more due to the fact that if I draw, I intend to defend myself. Most likely that I will shoot until I am out of ammo. Bears and wolves are the main predators that I would need defense against.


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

Stay away from Taurus because of their inconsistant production reputation... Too much of a gamble. Stick with major manufacturers. Single-stack means all the rounds are in one line in the magazine. Double-stack means there are, like, two rows of rounds nearly (but not quite) side-by-side. So double-stacks have fatter mags & grips... so they're bigger. Best hint I can give for buying; Pay a lot of attention to weight. When you're out there hunting, you have plenty of other issues to be concerned about besides the feeling of lugging around a too-heavy .45 for no good reason... I feel 6,7, or 8 rds. of .45 is enough for that purpose... (and you can always carry an extra mag if you decide you want to). So I suggest single-stack. Try out a Kahr CW45 if you can... or if you want to pay more, a Glock 36 or the more expensive Kahrs; P45, TP45, or even the little 5+1 PM45 if you're so inclined. EDIT: OK, I just read the post you were typing as I was thinking about what I wanted to say. So it sounds like you're tending toward double-stack... There are plenty of good ones out there... but I'd still stick with LIGHT!! as possible... Glock G30... S&W M&P 45C.


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## charger5579 (Nov 6, 2010)

Bucky04 said:


> I am new to handguns, but I have shot a few and I have decided that I want a 45. I will be using the gun for protection in the woods while I am bowhunting. I need some advice on what model and brand that you would suggest I look at, as well as what type of thigh holster. I am very interested in the composite style holster that locks the gun in place. Also, where is a good place online to look at pricing for guns and supplies? Thank you for any advice.


Bucky, i was in the same boat you are in! I hunt land with a lot of hogs, and even some mountain lion. Never seen one but have been told they are around the area. I wanted something about like you do. I know alot of people on here are against them, and i am sure they have there reasons, but i bought a taurus millenium pro in 45 acp. Super light, super compact and i have never had one problem with it. Never heard anyone that has had a problem with it around here, and its the number one seller at 3 of the local gun shops in my town. They cant be as bad as people say they are on this website.


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## C1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Bucky04 said:


> Bears and wolves are the main predators that I would need defense against.


 If you are looking for protection against bears, I would suggest something more than a .45ACP. Some options in double revolvers are .357 Mag (357 could be under-powered against some black bears), .41 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 Colt. Ruger makes great double action revolvers.


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

charger5579 said:


> Bucky, i was in the same boat you are in! I hunt land with a lot of hogs, and even some mountain lion. Never seen one but have been told they are around the area. I wanted something about like you do. I know alot of people on here are against them, and i am sure they have there reasons, but i bought a taurus millenium pro in 45 acp. Super light, super compact and i have never had one problem with it. Never heard anyone that has had a problem with it around here, and its the number one seller at 3 of the local gun shops in my town. They cant be as bad as people say they are on this website.


I did some research on the millennium pro and my question to you is what is the accuracy of this gun in your opinion. I am interested in the compact size of the gun, but I have always believed in the fact that a gun with more weight and barrel length equated to greater accuracy. I would just like to know what distances you have shot it and how accurate you were able to be with it. Thank you.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I bought a Glock G-20 for a backup 'woods gun,' and I carry it in a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. The G-20 is chambered for 10mm, which is much more suitable for shooting large animals than a .45 ACP. It has the power of a .41 magnum in a semi-auto frame that was designed specifically for the 10mm chambering. I trust its reliability as much as I do a revolver, and I find it much easier to shoot accurately, with faster recovery from recoil...others will disagree with some of these points, but that is my personal experience. The Blackhawk Serpa is a push button holster that allows a fast draw with the trigger finger pushing the button while in the safe position for drawing, and it has better retention capabilities than any other holster I am aware of.

This is the only semi-auto I would feel the least bit 'comfortable' with, as a self-protection woods gun. A revolver in .44 magnum or above might be more suitable for large bear, although, truthfully, there have not been very many successful defenses against large bears, with handguns.

Taking along a friend that you know you can outrun is probably the most practical bear defense. :mrgreen:

Edit (to comment on accuracy):

It took me several range sessions to become comfortable with this powerful handgun, but I can now empty a full magazine (15 rounds) into a paper plate, at 25 yards, with anywhere from 5 to 10 rounds being in or very near to the 2" bulls eye. This is starting off with slow fire, and increasing speed as I work through the magazine. Also, the 10mm is a 'flat shooter,' compared to most handgun rounds. By this, I mean that I can consistently hit paper plates at 50 yards, without altering my sight picture. I am a fairly average handgun marksman, by the standards I grew up with, and my eyes are not what they used to be, so a younger guy that practiced a lot could do some really fine shooting with this handgun, in my opinion.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

Bisley said:


> I bought a Glock G-20 for a backup 'woods gun,' and I carry it in a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. The G-20 is chambered for 10mm, which is much more suitable for shooting large animals than a .45 ACP. . .
> 
> . . . This is the only semi-auto I would feel the least bit 'comfortable' with, as a self-protection woods gun. A revolver in .44 magnum or above might be more suitable for large bear, although, truthfully, there have not been very many successful defenses against large bears, with handguns.


What Bisley said above. :smt1099

For my real wilderness hiking, I carry a Ruger Alaskan snubby in .454 Casull. With Win. Supreme 260 grain Nosler Partition Gold. 
Yes, that is a very heavy gun. And at 1,800 fps. and 1870 ft-lbs. of energy, that ammo should be "more than enough".
All I have to do is "hit something" in the middle if needed. That's the hard part.
But, I like it that way. If something in "my system" fails, it sure won't be the gun/ammo.

And, if I was going around trying to hit a Black bear in the butt with an arrow,
I would DEFINITELY not skimp on the "bring enough backup gun" concept. :mrgreen:


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

FWIW, I, for one, would NOT want to face an angry bear or wolf with a Taurus Millenium Pro in my hand... (Gives me the heebie jeebies just thinkin' 'bout it)...


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

Let me start by saying thank you to everyone who has weighed in on my topic. I appreciate all the feedback. I want to clarify my situation and hopefully that will shed a little more light on my purchasing dillemma. I am a diehard bowhunter. I hunt primarily whitetails and turkeys in Wisconsin, but I am due to draw my bear tag next year. I plan to fill my bear tag with my bow if I am lucky enough to get a good size one within range. I did hunt black bear with my bow 7 years ago. The gun I select would only be used in defense of myself, daughter and dog when I am walking in or out of my stand site or shed hunting. We live in northern Wisconsin where we have a very large (and increasing) bear population as well as a burgeoning population of wolves (aaarrrgghh). I have had encounters with wolves and bears while out in the woods, but nothing that came to the point of having to defend myself. I (and my wife) do not want to have be in a difficult situation without something to effectively take care of the situation. Thus, the reason for wanting to purchase a handgun. I am convinced that a polymer framed semi auto .45 is the way to go due a higher amount of shots to be delivered, ease of loading/unloading, inclement weather, etc. If any of you have any other thoughts or suggestions I gladly welcome them as I plan to purchase within the next month or so. Thank you again.


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## charger5579 (Nov 6, 2010)

Bucky04 said:


> I did some research on the millennium pro and my question to you is what is the accuracy of this gun in your opinion. I am interested in the compact size of the gun, but I have always believed in the fact that a gun with more weight and barrel length equated to greater accuracy. I would just like to know what distances you have shot it and how accurate you were able to be with it. Thank you.


accuracy past 20 yards fades fast. Only down fall of the gun, but i didnt buy it for a range gun and anything past 20 yards with a pistol is a farley lengthy shot. any more questions? I would be happy to help if i can.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Bucky04 said:


> ...I am convinced that a polymer framed semi auto .45 is the way to go due a higher amount of shots to be delivered, ease of loading/unloading, inclement weather, etc.


Since you have clearly stated that the sole use for this handgun will be defense of your family, in the woods, against bear and wolves, I feel compelled to stress to you the fact that .45 ACP is NOT suitable for that use. It is a great pistol round for self defense against human beings, because it is a low velocity round that still packs enough of a wallop to wreak havoc on anything as frail as a human body.

The role of the polymer framed, high capacity pistol, that you say you prefer, would be best fulfilled by the 10mm Glock, as I stated in my first post. The G20 holds 15+1 rounds, and the 10mm (.40 caliber - basically the 'magnum' version of the .40 S&W) is only slightly smaller in diameter than the .45, but it is a high pressure, high velocity round that will significantly outperform the .45 ACP in any category with relevance to shooting large dangerous animals.

If you insist on using a .45 ACP, against all advice, at least load it with high velocity hardball ammo, to achieve maximum penetration. It might be possible to use +P ammo with a lighter FMJ or hardcast lead bullet, and achieve something approaching the penetration capability of the 10mm...if you can find such ammo.


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

+1... Yep... 10mm would give me a better feeling concerning bears and wolves... Glock 20 (15 rd. 28 oz.) is a formidible weapon. Even the stubbier Glock 29 (10 rd. 25 oz.) might work for you as a smaller emergency protector.


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

I've never encountered any bears,but I have seen pictures of the aftermath of an
attack.It has been discussed in other Threads that the guns of choice are big caliber 
pistols.Simi-auto Vs. Revolver.Many choices were discussed.
I think the most popular were the 10 M.M.,.45 Colt, .44 Magnum,and the .454 Casull.


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

I am northern Wisconsin, not out west. I won't be encountering any charging grizzlies, just over curious black bears. Also, the wolves that we have are not the western monsters that you see on the internet, our grey wolves are more like large german shepherds. I don't need a tank gun to convince one to get the heck out of dodge. Even a smaller 9 mm would take care of a wolf in our area. If I was chasing elk in the rockies I would bring a large bore revolver. The last 8 guys that I spoke with personally in our area said that they would pick a 45 over a 10mm. Just a few thoughts.


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

Bucky you have to consider that I live on the Coast of S/W Texas.
When I think of bears?I think big.
That was the picture in my mind.
The coyotes in this part are more scared of us than we are of them.
A 9M.M. would take them easily.No Black bears here.Just rattlesnakes,
alligators,wild hogs, and such.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Bucky04 said:


> The last 8 guys that I spoke with personally in our area said that they would pick a 45 over a 10mm. Just a few thoughts.


OK.

I'm certainly no expert on dangerous animals, and if these guys you are listening to are experienced with both chamberings, and know bears and wolves, to boot, I can understand your wanting to take their advice over that of an anonymous Internet 'advisor.'

But I do know .45's and 10mm's pretty well, and I personally carry the 10mm, in the woods...and all I'm defending against is the likelihood of an occasional feral hog that gets confused and runs the wrong direction. I know of several folks who have had very poor luck shooting them with .45 ACP, while others have dropped them with a .22...so I guess you make your choices and live with them.

I wish you the very best of luck with your decision.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

Bucky04 said:


> I am northern Wisconsin, not out west. I won't be encountering any charging grizzlies, just over curious black bears. Also, the wolves that we have are not the western monsters that you see on the internet, our grey wolves are more like large german shepherds. I don't need a tank gun to convince one to get the heck out of dodge. Even a smaller 9 mm would take care of a wolf in our area. If I was chasing elk in the rockies I would bring a large bore revolver. The last 8 guys that I spoke with personally in our area said that they would pick a 45 over a 10mm. Just a few thoughts.


Like Bisley, I'm interested in their "45 over a 10mm" advice. Just curious about the rationale.

Plus, I volunteer in our local Humane Society. Don't sell dogs, let alone wolves, even "little" wolves, short.

"Our" dogs get a little crazy in their nasty "prison environment".
So "cage-fighting" through the chain-link fencing on top of the concrete block wall kennels is fairly common.
This snarling and clawing and attempts to bite each other isn't fun. And you DON'T stop it with loud "NO's".

If ANY dog bites us, two things happen. The dog gets a death sentence. We are done and gone forever.
Our job is to teach them "minimal manners" outside their cages so they will be adopted into a "forever home".
We volunteers only work with "green-rated" dogs. "Yellow" and "red" dogs are only worked by real experts.

But, if a dog goes into the real hard-wired "predator drive" they are down-right SCARY.
Don't sell a German Shepard (or any dog) short. 
They have a programmed overlay to supress "that" for food and shelter and cuddling from us.
And, so we don't have to kill them. These are just the DOMESTICATED predators.

Any animal in the mental state "predator drive" is not going to be "frightened off" by a gunshot(s) sound.
And, of course, any rabid animal, regardless of size, is a "whole different animal".:mrgreen:

As I always do, I've rambled on way too much.
And, like Bisley said, good luck with your choice. You'll be fine. :smt1099


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

Okay guys, so I have done more research and spoke with more gun shop owners. I guess that I was convinced that since the .45 was a larger caliber (technically) than the 10mm it would be more powerful. I can see the counter argument in favor of the 10. In your opinion what would be the downside of carrying a 10mm vs. the .45? I do like the idea of flatter shooting and greater downrange accuracy of the 10. Thanks again.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Bucky04 said:


> Okay guys, so I have done more research and spoke with more gun shop owners. I guess that I was convinced that since the .45 was a larger caliber (technically) than the 10mm it would be more powerful. I can see the counter argument in favor of the 10. In your opinion what would be the downside of carrying a 10mm vs. the .45? I do like the idea of flatter shooting and greater downrange accuracy of the 10. Thanks again.


10mm ammo is expensive, and if you buy the G20 (Glock), you can't shoot hardcast lead bullets through it, because of the polygonal rifling. However, you can shoot FMJ, and DoubleTap and Buffalo Bore sell good hunting ammo that have jacketed bullets. Or you can add a conventional rifling, after-market barrel for just over $100 and a 22lb. recoil spring, and that will allow you to shoot 200-230 grain hardcast lead ammo, which should be very good black bear medicine. Or you can choose another platform, entirely, although I prefer the Glock, for its proven reliability. The EAA Witness is a decent handgun and can be purchased for less than $500, or several 1911 makers sell pistols chambered for 10mm.

Other than those minor things, there is really no downside that I can see to the 10mm. It has significant recoil, but nothing you can't get used to in 2-3 range sessions, using a proper combat grip and good ear protection. I have let several less experienced shooters shoot mine, and they all did fairly well with it, once they got the grip right.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

i'd get the glock 21 or the springfield xd 45 or the S&W M&P 45


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