# In the market for first firearm purchase (recommendations)



## jessexschilling (Aug 27, 2018)

Hello,

I am looking to hopefully purchase my first handgun sometime in October (maybe sooner). I am curious as to what suggestions anyone may have based on my budget (<$600) and current preferences. I prefer new vs used. I like heavy, larger frame revolvers. Looks like I prefer smaller, heavier (i.e. PX4 Storm Compact) pistols. I am also located in Missouri, if that has any bearing on potential recommendations. Being able to conceal carry easily is preferred, but not an absolute must. While I would like to have this firearm on my person for defense, I will be primarily engaging in recreational shooting to improve my ability and confidence with firearms.

As of now, I am quite interested in the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact. I have yet to fire one, but the fit in my hand is like a glove and I am quite pleased with the design, craftsmanship, weight, etc. Are there any similar firearms that I should look into based on my interest in the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact? I am very much interested in DA/SA, preferably with a de-cocking safety. I am also looking at the Beretta BU9 Nano. Haven't been able to find one in stock to handle yet.

As far as what I have experience with: Smith and Wesson Model Governor (love it, .45LC), Smith and Wesson M&P Shield .40S&W (not my favorite as far as fitting my hand and awfully light), Smith and Wesson M&P .45ACP (feels a bit light, not the best hand fit), Smith and Wesson J-Frame .38/.357 (not a fan of the hand fit with the J-Frames). As far as accuracy, I was quite a bit better with the Governor. May have been a mentality thing (went in liking the Governor) and/or fit comfort. The .40S&W came in second, even though I wasn't particularly fond of the firearm's fit in my hand and light weight. I have also handled a Colt 1908 vest gun in .25ACP. Cleaned her up. I like the fit. Haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet.

If I could afford one, I would go out and buy a S&W Model Governor tomorrow. The PX4 Storm Compact is going for about $580 at my local, preferred shop/range.

I am not necessarily tied to any particular manufacturer, I just have only had the opportunity to shoot Smith and Wesson's so far. I do like them, generally, especially their revolvers.

I'm just looking for some suggestions so I can narrow down what I am looking at at the gunshop, as opposed to handling every gun in every counter (though I wouldn't be opposed to doing just that).

The gunshop in question is an authorized dealer for nearly every "major" manufacturer, as well as having an onsite gunsmith that is authorized by the same manufacturers, so I should be able to find and handle most any recommended firearm.


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## Argon18smith (Nov 4, 2016)

My first purchase was a Ruger Mark II in .22lr many moons ago and I do not regret it. It let me practice the basics of hand gunning and it was cheap to operate. A couple of years ago I started buying high power handguns and I enjoy them all. Enjoy your choices too.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

You might want to look into the S&W 9mm Shield........ Works for concealment, comfortable recoil, accurate and nice trigger........ They come with a thumb safety or not.......

9mm Shield


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Find a range that rents guns to try out before you buy. Holding one is different from shooting one. I would also recommend finding a good instructor to make sure you start off learning to shoot handguns correctly, it is easier to learn the right way instead of learning to correct bad habits. Handguns are very personal to each person and what is good for me may not be good for you. Good luck with your search and welcome.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

If you like the Governor for use with .45 "Long" Colt, you are placing your bet on the wrong horse.
If you want to shoot .45 "Long" Colt, then buy a pistol that is chambered for that cartridge exactly, not a market-driven hybrid designed for ineffective .410 shotshells.

Buying a pistol is not a matter of emotions. It is a practical matter of intended use, and personal fit.
(See Tony's advice, in Post #4 of this thread.)
*Step One:* Figure out exactly what you want to use the pistol for, and then find pistols which are designed for that particular application.
*Step Two:* Actually handle, and try to find a way to actually fire, as many of those specific-application pistols as you can. Take notes.
*Step Three:* Review your notes, and, using them, make a carefully-reasoned choice.

Having done that, now find an instructor (or at least a class) in the use of the pistol.
Pistol shooting is not easy. Doing it with reasonable effectiveness requires some guidance and a lot of practice.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

I like Cait's suggestion of the M&P Shield 9mm quite a lot. It's one of my carry choices and I find it very accurate for me.

That said, if I were wanting just one first gun to learn with and defend myself with, my choice would be the Walther PPQ M2. It's about the size of a PX4 but fits a lot of people more comfortably. Some say it has the sweetest feel in the business and the sweetest trigger in the business. I concur. One thing though. It's a striker fired pistol, so no thumb safety and no hammer. But, this means the first pull and subsequent pulls are all the same. No first hard long pull, then followup easy pulls to train yourself in like DA/SA pistols. For a defensive firearm I might need in a hurry and under stressful situations, I don't want to have to consider a thumb safety or DA/SA changes in trigger pull. I need it to be available quickly and the same way every time. The PPQ gives me this but includes three built in automatic safeties and that first and every pull is not only exactly the same, but many consider the best. That's not only it's reputation, but I completely agree. 

When I decided to upgrade my home defense gun, I wrote down the above characteristics, then a short list of various models which fit. I then went to the range and rented the six which met that list. I did it on more than one occasion usually. I worked it down to two pistols, dropping the Glock 19 from consideration. Those two were the Walther PPQ M2 and the Sig Sauer P320. The Walther edged out the Sig after a 3rd range test and I bought it. I've not been disappointed in the least. It's everything it's been trumped up to be. Hence, my recommendation.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

jessexschilling said:


> As of now, I am quite interested in the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact. I have yet to fire one, but the fit in my hand is like a glove and I am quite pleased with the design, craftsmanship, weight, etc. .


You already picked it. :smt102


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## jessexschilling (Aug 27, 2018)

Well, excellent input everyone. I very much appreciate the advice and welcomes. Plenty to think over and take into consideration.

Financially, my ability to do extensive, multi-firearm rentals/tests is limited, but I plan on being able to get in at least my top 3 after handling/inspecting them. As of now, it's looking like those will be the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact 9mm, Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 2.0 9mm, and Walther PPQ M2 9mm. After making my first purchase, this shop/range has a membership program (1 year free with purchase of firearm) that gives a 50% discount on range time, 10% discount on ammo bought at the range, and some additional bonuses that I seem to be forgetting at the moment. They also offer various on-site training courses (CC, first-time shooters, advanced training, etc.) that I will be taking advantage of as finances allow. I have no intentions of becoming "that guy" when it comes to firearm use and safety, unless "that guy" takes on the persona of competent and safe firearm owner/user. 

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll update as I progress through the "shopping" process, on the off-chance that my experiences and discoveries are helpful to others.


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## Swampguy (Jun 23, 2016)

Hi Jesse,

My wife just went through getting a new pistol. We have many pistols in our collection, large and small, both revolvers and semi-autos from .45 down to .22 caliber. Our personal favorites have changed over time but our NEW favorite is the one below. If you shop around you can find them in the low $500s. I think I paid $545 for mine at Academy. What surprised me about this pistol, is how accurate it is. Typically, small lightweight 9mm pistols tend to be a little harder to shoot accurately compared to larger pistols and this one really surprised us. It has a really nice trigger, night sights, and is easy to rack (a big plus for my wife) and it is also much easier to conceal than a larger pistol. If you get a chance, try one.

As others have said, and I agree, it would be best if you could handle and shoot all under consideration before making your final decision.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/719014556/Sig+Sauer+938-9-DB-AMBI+P938+Semi

Good luck with your quest.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Sig Sauer P930 9mm....... $499.99 with laser and free shipping........
https://www.handgunforum.net/wikiar...38-9mm-nitron-laser-499-99-free-shipping.html


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Swampguy said:


> Hi Jesse,
> 
> My wife just went through getting a new pistol. We have many pistols in our collection, large and small, both revolvers and semi-autos from .45 down to .22 caliber. Our personal favorites have changed over time but our NEW favorite is the one below. If you shop around you can find them in the low $500s. I think I paid $545 for mine at Academy. What surprised me about this pistol, is how accurate it is. Typically, small lightweight 9mm pistols tend to be a little harder to shoot accurately compared to larger pistols and this one really surprised us. It has a really nice trigger, night sights, and is easy to rack (a big plus for my wife) and it is also much easier to conceal than a larger pistol. If you get a chance, try one.
> 
> ...


Yep, Sig P938 9mm.
Don't own one but have fired a friends P938 several times. Full size sights (night sights), surprisingly accurate, easy to hit with and mild recoiling. All in a small package.
Sig quality and LIFETIME PROFESSIONAL customer support. You owe it to yourself to try one before you buy anything else.

Edit:
Forgot to mention. You should try the P938 with the Sig brand extended magazine with the pinky finger rest.
The extension allows for a full purchase similar to that of a much larger pistol.

Sam


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

The Beretta PX4 compact is a very good hammer-fired, DA/SA pistol. I have three Beretta Cougar pistols which were the all-metal precursors to the polymer-framed PX4 and share the same rotary barrel lock-up system. Cougars and PX4s seem to shoot very softly in any caliber.

If a DA/SA pistol is what you would feel more comfortable with, that is what I would buy. Striker-fired pistols are generally easier to learn on because there is no long DA trigger pull, or DA/SA transition to master. But if you are committed to practice, learning how to shoot a DA/SA pistol is not all that difficult, IMO.

I do have an M&P Shield 9mm and frankly I am not crazy about it. I like its compact size, but it does not fit my hand well either. The trigger is quite mediocre (I hear the 2.0 version is quite a bit better), the recoil spring is quite stiff, and the function of the slide stop lever is very awkward.

A pistol you might consider if the Walther P99 AS. This is a polymer-frame pistol with a feel similar (but not identical) to the PPQ. Like the PPQ, it is striker-fired but it has a DA/SA action with a decocker.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Remember: First, figure out what you want the pistol to do for you. Self-protection? Hunting? Target shooting? Plinking?

Once having done that, the recommendations other people make will be a better guide to you.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

First carry piece, I always recommend DA/SA format. Unless it's a revolver. Highly recommend revolvers.

First gun, Safety first. 

Forget about the bad guy , first focus on the safe carrying of your gun.

learn the different formats .

That should be your initial training , Safety first.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...And I'm the opposite.
I believe, through experience, that a beginner will better learn to shoot a pistol well if every trigger press is the same.
DAO? SA? It doesn't matter, as long as every shot is sent off with the same trigger press.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Ok, we're doing opposite, opposite Tuesday,,lol. :goofy::goofy:
still think learning the guns functionality first creates a safer experience , sometimes a longer life ,lol.
There are different mechanical formats, each should have it's own type of training .

There are more negligent discharges in the DAO format, the hammer is cocked, a round in the chamber . We are recommending this advice to someone who's never owned or carried a gun.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...And I'm the opposite.
> I believe, through experience, that a beginner will better learn to shoot a pistol well if every trigger press is the same.
> DAO? SA? It doesn't matter, as long as every shot is sent off with the same trigger press.


Steve, my belief is that everyone should first learn DA/SA.. The simple reasoning behind this is once you learn the DA/SA trigger press everything else is an easier transition. Those who claim a DA/SA trigger is so foreign or hard to learn should have started with a DA/SA from the start in my opinion. Likewise , you handicap yourself not knowing the DA/SA pull in instances where a revolver or a DA/SA is all you may have. I taught my nephew to first shoot DA/SA, now he can shoot anything very well and naturally.

Remember, all one needs to learn in a DA/SA pistol is practically the first trigger press, the transition to SA and all the rest in SA. Granted, I agree with what you state by saying that a SA or DOA pistol may be at first easier to learn, but look at the long run. Generally, especially for a newbie and even experienced alike a DA/SA pistol for carry is much more forgiving than a <6 pound striker or single action pistol. :numbchuck:

I can assure you when you hear of ND's while carrying it's not gonna be a DA/SA gun 95% of the time.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

IMO the only drawback to the DA/SA is that it's kinda like the new shooter has to learn two guns at the same time. 
A new shooter has enough to learn already. Keep it as simple as possible... > (K.I.S.S.)


Sam


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Gentlemen back to my first post on this thread about finding a good instructor. We often use terms a first time buyer very well may not understand. let us not confuse with to much remote information we can not show.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

SamBond said:


> IMO the only drawback to the DA/SA is that it's kinda like the new shooter has to learn two guns at the same time.
> A new shooter has enough to learn already. Keep it as simple as possible... > (K.I.S.S.)
> 
> Sam


That hard? They will think it's natural because they know nothing else in my experience.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

tony pasley said:


> Gentlemen back to my first post on this thread about finding a good instructor. We often use terms a first time buyer very well may not understand. let us not confuse with to much remote information we can not show.


Ah, I have faith in the young man, I believe he understands the terms mentioned quite well, after all his main interest is in a Px4 Compact, that tells me something.:smt033


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

tony pasley said:


> Gentlemen back to my first post on this thread about finding a good instructor. We often use terms a first time buyer very well may not understand. let us not confuse with to much remote information we can not show.


Oh, sorry. (K.I.S.S.) means *K*eep *I*t *S*imple *S*tupid... Something you hear around racing and probably other places too.
Not that you're calling anyone stupid. It's just, don't make things more complicated than needs be.

Sam


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

The Double Action ability of a DA/SA. Came about, IMO as a feature of convenience. 
What if we can pull the trigger without cocking the hammer, boy would that be nice. 
Revolvers were all single action until they incorporated an (optional to use) double action feature. 
You're still allowed to cock the hammer, it's not a mandatory function that people keep using as a negative.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

pic said:


> There are more negligent discharges in the *DAO format, the hammer is cocked, a round in the chamber.* We are recommending this advice to someone who's never owned or carried a gun.


Pic my friend. I think you're getting it wrong. With DAO, the hammer is generally not cocked. Most revolvers are Double Action and some are Double Action Only (DAO). Most striker fired semi auto pistols are the same way. There's plenty of tension there to be like some quality double action revolvers. A striker fired handgun does not act or feel like a single action revolver or single action semi-auto pistol. With single action, you carry it hammer back and safety locked. Not so with striker fired.

With striker fired, you must pull through 5-8 lbs of tension until you hit the wall where it breaks. It's the same with every pull. With a DA/SA handgun, you have a similar but usually slightly harder pull on the first round, then a much lighter, maybe 3 lb, pull on subsequent rounds. Explain again, how you think a striker fired pistol is fundamentally different in trigger pull than a well tuned quality Smith and Wesson revolver.

I started with DA/SA handguns at the start. I bought my first Sig P220 in 1976. It's only been recently I moved to striker fired handguns and can attest they are no less safe than my S&W Model 65 revolver. The operational control using my Walther PPQ is almost identical to using my Smith and Wesson. It just is. This is why most don't want a thumb safety on a striker fired pistol, but why you do need a thumb safety on a single action like a 1911 automatic.

Go to the range and rent a Glock, Sig P320, or Walther PPQ and see for yourself. They are in no way like a 1911.

The reason some claim more negligent discharges with some types over others has to do with what is most popular and purchased at the time. Right now, striker fired are most popular and being purchased in larger quantity, hence there will be more NDs. You'd expect this considering how many new to guns are buying this type. If a lot more new people bought hammers this year than previously, you'd expect a lot more bashed thumbs. Does this mean hammers have become more dangerous? Not at all.

As far as people learning to use DA/SA first because it's the hardest to master, makes little sense to me. Mastering the easiest to learn makes sense to me. The same pull, regardless of what that pull is, would be easier to master and better in a gun fight where your muscle memory may fail. With a striker fired design, you pick up the gun and pull the trigger. It works as expected just like it did at the range. A followup shot is the same, like a revolver but more capacity. Every pull of the trigger the same. What's there not to like?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Craigh said:


> Pic my friend. I think you're getting it wrong. With DAO, the hammer is generally not cocked. Most revolvers are Double Action and some are Double Action Only (DAO). Most striker fired semi auto pistols are the same way. There's plenty of tension there to be like some quality double action revolvers. A striker fired handgun does not act or feel like a single action revolver or single action semi-auto pistol. With single action, you carry it hammer back and safety locked. Not so with striker fired.
> 
> With striker fired, you must pull through 5-8 lbs of tension until you hit the wall where it breaks. It's the same with every pull. With a DA/SA handgun, you have a similar but usually slightly harder pull on the first round, then a much lighter, maybe 3 lb, pull on subsequent rounds. Explain again, how you think a striker fired pistol is fundamentally different in trigger pull than a well tuned quality Smith and Wesson revolver.
> 
> ...


action on a hk vp DAO,,,,,isn't the internal firing pin already cocked with one up the funnel into the pipe??? 
If not, you're right ,,I got it wrong. Respectfully.

My reasoning that mastering a poor or hard trigger will teach you the proper gripping of the gun , isolating the grip, from the trigger pull. If it's all to easy,, it's easier to pick up bad habits. Respectfully.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I currently own 4 striker-fired pistols made by three different manufacturers, but I have shot a whole bunch more made by various other makers. I own one double-action revolver, a Ruger GP100 but have shot a bunch of others made by Smith and Wesson, Colt, and Taurus. I own 2 single action only, hammer-fired pistols, both model 1911s, but have shot others such as the Browning Hi-Power and some SIGs. I own a couple of hammer-fired double action only pistols. And I own 6 hammer-fired traditional double action (DA/SA) pistols made by four different manufacturers.

With a hammer-fired pistol or revolver fired in double action mode, the trigger press has to overcome the resistance of the hammer spring which is typically completely non-tensioned. In a revolver shot in double action mode, in addition to cocking the hammer the trigger press also has to perform a number of additional actions (unlocking the cylinder, rotating the cylinder with the pawl, relocking the cylinder). To compress the mainspring without having an outrageously heavy trigger pull requires a long trigger press to gain mechanical advantage. When a revolver or DA/SA pistol is fired in SA mode, or a single action only pistol or revolver is fired, the hammer is already cocked and the trigger pull is much shorter and lighter.

In nearly all modern striker-fired pistols, the striker spring has already been pretensioned to some degree by the slide travel. In some cases, the striker spring is pretensioned to a very considerable degree or even virtually completely. The trigger press can therefore be significantly lighter and shorter, although some striker-fired pistols incorporate mechanisms to increase the trigger pull weight above that which would be mechanically necessary for safety reasons.

The DA trigger pull of many DA/SA pistols with stock mainsprings and action parts very commonly has a weight greater than 10 lbs. This is true of the Beretta 92 FS, SIG P226/229, HKs and others. Not only is that significantly heavier than the pull weight of the great majority of striker-fired pistols, the trigger pull is considerably longer. Some striker-fired pistols have longer trigger pulls than others, but commonly the initial pre-travel or take-up phase is quite light providing relatively little feedback to the shooter.

I have considerable experience with all of the more common pistol trigger actions and I have not encountered any striker-fired pistol that has a trigger press anywhere close to as long or heavy as that of my DA/SA pistols or double action revolver shot in DA mode. Even my Glock 19, which has a New York 1 trigger spring and a Glock minus connector (providing a trigger pull that breaks in the 6.5-7lb range) has a lighter trigger pull than my DA hammer-fired handguns. While the trigger pull of striker-fired pistols is certainly not as light or short as that of a single action only pistol, double action revolver shot in SA mode, or even a DA/SA pistol shot in SA mode, I would not say that they are in any way close to being equivalent to DA trigger pulls of hammer-fired weapons.

The debate for and against DA/SA pistols has gone on for decades and can be argued all day long. Those who like DA/SA pistols feel that the longer and heavier DA trigger press requires much greater deliberation than does the trigger press of the typical striker-fired or SA hammer-fired pistol, and therefore allows for a greater margin of error against a premature or unintentional shot, especially in a tense situation, or an accidental discharge when reholstering. 

I do agree that striker-fired or SA hammer-fired pistols are easier to learn to shoot, as I said before.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm a 1911 fan all the way.. The visual of the hammer cocked n locked fools many into thinking the action is unsafe.
the DAO is the action that will fool you. Vp, glock, m&p, I own a couple glocks . And I know that darn hammer is more cocked then uncocked with one in the pipe, respectively 
pic


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

There are revolvers and revolvers. I particularly mentioned my S&W Model 65 for a reason. That is because the double action pull is somewhere around the same as many striker fired handguns. I admit some revolvers are somewhat higher. I believe that revolver is slightly less that 8 lbs on my Lyman. Now, on the other hand, my Walther PPQ pulls around 5 lbs. My Glock pulls at over 6 lbs. Most striker fired pistols pull between 5 lbs and 8 lbs. It has nothing to do with pretensioning the striker, obviously. It has everything to do with the tension applied to keep it safe, and they do a pretty good job of that. 

I've never accidentally fired any striker fired, DAO, or revolver because of a supposed light trigger. I think it would be hard to do unless you were being unsafe for some reason like purposely pulling the trigger a little so see if you could do so without discharging it. You're still pulling through a lot of take-up before the break. The debate here seems to be how much trigger pull is enough to be safe. I think the current crop of striker fired pistols have plenty of that pull to be safe. They are no way close to a cocked 1911. If they were and didn't have a thumb safety, I'd not own one.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

To a beginner, especially one with supervision, safety is less of an issue than consistency.

A beginner finds it hard enough to learn a good trigger press.
Why complicate that learning experience with the need to learn two very different trigger actions?

SA or DAO... Choose one and get on with it.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

Craigh said:


> The reason some claim more negligent discharges with some types over others has to do with what is most popular and purchased at the time. Right now, striker fired are most popular and being purchased in larger quantity, hence there will be more NDs. You'd expect this considering how many new to guns are buying this type. If a lot more new people bought hammers this year than previously, you'd expect a lot more bashed thumbs. Does this mean hammers have become more dangerous? Not at all.


Craigh, I disagree with your statement somewhat. Of course striker fired pistols are much more prevalent in Law enforcement and the civilian market, thus your reasoning there are much more ND's with striker fired handguns due to their popularity and numbers.

I don't buy that argument. If you switched places making DA/SA pistols or 6 shot revolvers as popular as striker fired handguns, the DA/SA format would substantially and I mean substantially have less issues with ND's as compared to the standard 4.5 to 8 pound striker fired pistol with no external safety. I mean a 4.8 to 5 pound striker fired pistol is like carrying a 1911(not all 1911's have 3.5 lb triggers) cocked and unlocked w/o a grip safety or carrying a DA/SA in single action?

If need be I can look up data I've seen on LEO departments transitioning from their trusty 6 shot revolver to striker fired handguns and their mass increase of incidences of ND's. 

In other words, to have a ND with a DA/SA handgun you have to really screw up royally, with a 4.5 to 5 pound extremely short triggered striker fired handgun, not so much.

I've been around for a while and carry DA/SA pistols for CCW IWB. I've carried my G-22 with one in the pipe as well and nearly suffered a ND holstering the pistol to a point I felt the trigger depressing but thankfully stopped and reversed my action. My preference for my Glock would be a holstered duty weapon outside the pants and suffice to say your PPQ has a lighter trigger and shorter travel than my Glock I would suspect.

It may be just me, but I don't see the incredible difficulty in learning on a DA/SA handgun, all those I taught hadn't a problem but thankfully they started out shooting DA/SA, but to each their own.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

denner12 said:


> Craigh, I disagree with your statement somewhat. Of course striker fired pistols are much more prevalent in Law enforcement and the civilian market, thus your reasoning there are much more ND's with striker fired handguns due to their popularity and numbers.
> 
> I don't buy that argument. If you switched places making DA/SA pistols or 6 shot revolvers as popular as striker fired handguns, the DA/SA format would substantially and I mean substantially have less issues with ND's as compared to the standard 4.5 to 8 pound striker fired pistol with no external safety. I mean a 4.8 to 5 pound striker fired pistol is like carrying a 1911(not all 1911's have 3.5 lb triggers) cocked and unlocked w/o a grip safety or carrying a DA/SA in single action?
> 
> ...


I mentioned this issue in another thread in the past month or two. I work in the criminal justice field, and as I previously stated - Short version, without typing out a huge paragraph.... I have been told that some large departments have 1 or 2 NDs a week. A WEEK! And, before they transitioned to Glocks/striker fired guns, they had ZERO for years or decades.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

A moment of inattention while reholstering a DAO pistol is very likely to result in a ND.
A cop doing his job has many things to do and to think about, and could very likely be distracted by one or more of them while attempting to reholster.

A properly trained civilian may not be so distracted, while reholstering.
Therefore, the police experience may not be transitive to civilian DAO-pistol use.

Maybe apples-and-oranges.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Guys, what it all seems to boil down to is trigger pull, as I said. The greater amount of trigger pull might be equal to a lesser amount of NDs. I'll accept this. I maintain striker fired weapons have enough pull to mitigate problems. Others disagree, obviously. 

But, I'll in no way attempt to accept a striker fired handgun being anywhere similar in any way to a 1911 cocked and unlocked. I've owned tons of 1911 handguns in my life and absolutely zero of them can be compared to a striker fired pistol in how the trigger feels in operation. No way. I love you guys, but I can't believe anyone here with experience in both would put forth such a concept. Maybe a Chinese Norinco out of the box with a spring full of shipping muck and cosmoline could in a very far reach be compared, but it'd be real reach. Even if say a Glock and a 1911 had the same trigger pull at the break in pounds, the take-up and total pull are entirely different. Glocks don't have or need thumb safeties and a 1911 does. Neither do DA/SA pistols, IMO. When they do, many try to disable them to have a decocker only i.e. Beretta. Prior to striker fired pistols, one of the reasons I bought my first Sig P220 in 1976 was because it had no thumb safety.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

https://www.chuckhawks.com/model_1911_service_pistol.htm

A Realistic Look at the Model 1911 Service Pistol

By Chuck Hawks

Trigger Pull

Another advantage touted by Model 1911 fans is its supposedly "far superior" trigger mechanism. Out of the box, the typical issue 1911 trigger pull is not superior; it is usually mediocre (or worse).

"We measured the actual trigger pull weights of unmodified Model 1911 type pistols recently tested by Guns and Shooting Online with these results: Browning 1911-22 A1 = 6.5 pounds, Colt M1991 = 6.5 pounds, Colt M1911 Rail Gun = 4.75 pounds, Ithaca Model 1911A1 = 4 pounds, Kimber TLE/RL-II = 4.5 pounds, Metro Arms American Classic II = 6.5 pounds, Remington 1911R1 = 4.75 pounds, Ruger SR1911 = 5.25 pounds, SIG SAUER 1911-22 = 6.1 pounds, and Springfield 1911A1 G.I. Model = 5.1 pounds. The average pull weight for these 10 Model 1911 pistols was 5.4 pounds and most of them came with plenty of take-up and/or grit before they released. Remember, these are all single action only triggers."

I recently shot a friends compact VP9 and was surprised at the shot. The trigger was light, barely any take up and a very quick reset. It was nice, a very light quick trigger indeed.


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## jessexschilling (Aug 27, 2018)

Well now, this escalated quickly. Haha. 

I appreciate the various opinions that have come about since my last post. A lot of solid debate on both sides. Ultimately, I have to agree with everything mentioned to some extent. Although, I think I will side with the DA/SA folks in the action debate. Purely for personal preference reasons. As far as being easier/harder to learn, if DA/SA is "harder" then it would be my first choice, even had I never fired a firearm before. That's just my learning style. Pick something that is harder/hardest and stick with it. I tend to start out a little slower than the others, but I'll ultimately get up to speed more quickly (unless the others are naturals at whatever I'm learning). Tortoise v. Hare sort of mindset. 

As far as terminology, I have understood everything mentioned in this thread so far. I may not currently own/carry a firearm, but I am not firearm illiterate. I have been absorbing ballistic data, firearm safety, etc. for quite some time now, so I am not just "getting to the party" so to speak, though I am by no means an "expert." Just gonna keep on learning. 

I very much appreciate the suggestions, still. This thread has been a success in my opinion. Plenty of recommendations and knowledge shared. I feel I have chosen this Forum wisely.


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## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

jessexschilling said:


> Well now, this escalated quickly. Haha.


Just healthy discussion and opinions.:watching:

Here ya go, have fun.

1. 




3. 




P.S. Practice dry fire with snap caps does wonders.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

jessexschilling said:


> Well now, this escalated quickly. Haha.
> 
> I appreciate the various opinions that have come about since my last post. A lot of solid debate on both sides. Ultimately, I have to agree with everything mentioned to some extent. Although, I think I will side with the DA/SA folks in the action debate.


*"* Well now, this escalated quickly. *"* 
You think that's something... Just try telling a bunch of deer hunters your rifle caliber is better than ALL of theirs and why. :anim_lol:

Now, the DA/SA pistol: (The action type I carry).
I know it's a little above the price range you want to be in but IMHO you can't beat the Sig M11-A1 9mm when considering overall quality, reliability, hand fit and most important, Sig's lifetime customer support / customer service.
If it gives you any problems, years from now, Sig will take care of you. There is NO TIME LIMIT. Well worth the extra coin in the long run.

Sam


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2018)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> If you like the Governor for use with .45 "Long" Colt, you are placing your bet on the wrong horse.
> If you want to shoot .45 "Long" Colt, then buy a pistol that is chambered for that cartridge exactly, not a market-driven hybrid designed for ineffective .410 shotshells.
> 
> Buying a pistol is not a matter of emotions. It is a practical matter of intended use, and personal fit.
> ...


good stuff. I still go through a checklist and I have bought guns since the 60's. I am trying to decide what will be my next one. If I can't find a Beretta 92 Custom Carry II, then I have to decide the purpose, then the caliber, hammer or striker, poly or steel, capacity, full size or compact. Then once narrowed down, handle them. and go from there.

But start a list of wish guns. Compare to your check list and start crossing them off.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

You can learn most of the fundamentals of pistol shooting such as stance, grip, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger press, recoil control, and follow through with a DA/SA pistol shooting only in SA mode initially. I know people who have DA/SA pistols for range use who never shoot them DA. And the SA trigger pull on a decent DA/SA pistol is typically better than that of a striker-fired pistol.

If you intend to have the pistol for self-defense use, it will be important at some point to master the DA trigger pull and the DA to SA transition. Most people find it somewhat more difficult to maintain the sight alignment and sight picture during the longer and heavier DA trigger press but I have know some individuals who actually shoot DA more accurately than SA. Fortunately, it is very easy to practice the DA trigger pull on a hammer-fired pistol by just pulling the trigger. No need to recock the hammer or striker by pulling the slide back as with a striker-fired pistol.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

See, I am of the opposite opinion. I've literally owned TONS of guns. I will admit that when I first got into guns over 20 years ago, I liked the Glock, because each pull was the same.

But after all these years - when I teach a newbie how to shoot and what to buy, I recommend a DA/SA gun. I think it is much safer for a newbie to have.

I will also say that when I did get my first DA/SA - I typically only practiced in SA. However, over time, I started practicing DA too. And, a Beretta 92 with a D spring in it (a factory hammer spring, that is lighter) is very easy to shoot in DA.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

When I first got into shooting handguns, I shot Grandpas model 10 S&W my first handgun was a single action revolver. In 1969 Uncle Sugar gave me my first 1911a1 to carry. I have many handguns, SA, Da, SA/DA, DAO, and 1 striker. I always go back to my 1911a1 it is just right( for me)


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Some of us prefer single action only pistols, some of us prefer traditional double action pistols (hammer-fired), some prefer striker-fired pistols, some prefer double action revolvers, and some prefer double action only hammer-fired pistols or revolvers.

Some of us prefer external manual safeties on our DA/SA or striker-fired pistols, and some do not. There are advantages and disadvantages to each system.

Each of us has perfectly valid reasons for our preferences. What it comes down to is what you feel safest with while still being able to shoot well. What is best for one person may not be best for another.

And if you wind up choosing what turns out not to be the best system for you as your initial pistol, it really isn't any big deal. Sell it and buy something else. You will be able to learn a good deal about handgun shooting no matter what initial choice you make.


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## BigHead (Jul 5, 2015)

Handle some .357's and see if you like them, a Ruger SP-101 is good to look at; or a Taurus M66, that would be a pretty good choice IMHO. A Beretta Storm is a pretty good choice too, and the S&W sounds good.
If I have made myself as clear as mud, sorry about that, but a Taurus M66 would suit my needs to a T, so that is what I suggest for you.
Unless of course, you want a Beretta...….ummmm…..I am a basket case.:smt120


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