# Loaded chamber or not?



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I haven't really decided what to do as far as carrying a "loaded" handgun once my CCDW permit comes in. Most of the people I know carry with a round already in the chamber and decocked. However, most of these people have manual safeties, whereas mine doesn't have one. I personally think it would be safer to keep the chamber empty when carrying, but I also know that if and when I did need to shoot for self defense, there might not be time to rack the slide. What do you all do?


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## cbrgator (Aug 21, 2007)

I don't normally keep one in the chamber but I practice pulling the slide as part of my draw. If I'm going into an area I know is a little shady, I'll chamber a round. I have a Glock 19 with no external safety. But the right answer is do what your comfortable doing. If you don't feel right about keeping the gun loaded at all times, then don't... but you better be proficient at pulling back that slide when you draw. If you're comfortable with a having a round chambered at all times then do that. For self-defense purposes thats obviously your best bet.


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

Glocks---chambered, SIG P220 SAO--cocked and locked with safety on. Do what you feel is comfortable. A bit more on racking the slide to chamber one after draw: You may want to practice doing so without your weak hand--rack your slide on the holster, belt, your hip, or leg. If your recoil spring is 16lbs or less, you may become proficient at this method. 20lbs would be hard to do in my opinion, without gashing a hole in yourself or your attire. But I would practice this as your non-shooting hand may very well be pre-occupied when it's time to rack that slide. With a BG 15' away coming at you, you may never get a chance to get 'on target', or the pistol may get ripped out of your hand(s) in that process. At least do yourself justice and practice the slide cycle without having the pistol up in front of you or looking at it.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Not sure what the weight rating is on the recoil spring, but racking the slide takes some muscle...it's real stiff. I think I'll normally keep the chamber empty, but if I'm in a situation where I don't think I would have time if an emergency happened, go ahead and chamber a round. Either way is fine since I always treat my handguns as if they're loaded until I can personally drop the mag and check the chamber myself.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Your P99 will NOT fire unless the trigger is fully pulled. You can drop it, sit of in, toss it across the room... safe.

Get a good holster that covers the trigger guard completely. Once the gun is drawn, you WILL NOT have time or presence of mind to rack it, aim it, and shoot it in a life or death situation.

Your Walther has FOUR internal safeties, and a decocker, and in double action should be a HEAVY first pull. That IS the external safety.

Carry it loaded, decocked, and covered.

An empty gun is a very expensive stone in a leather (or plastic) holder.

JW


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## jlouki01 (Jan 25, 2008)

I just recieved my permit. My plan is to carry my glock without one in the tube for now. Once I am comfortable with the holster and just carrying in general... I will carry hot.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Quite honestly, if you're not familiar enough with a pistol to carry it loaded, you probably shouldn't be carrying it at all. Seek additional training if you aren't sure you can handle the weapon safely.


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

The best advice on carrying I've ever gotten is: if you're not comfortable carrying a particular model of gun with one in the chamber, don't carry that model. If you're not comfortable with the idea on the whole, don't carry.

Every gun manufactured since the early 1900s has been designed to be carried safely with a round chambered. SAs like the 1911 can be cocked and locked, Traditional DAs and DAOs are carried hammer-down giving them a 20-lb DA trigger, and safe-actions have a trigger latch and other internal safeties, virtually all of which must all fail before the gun will discharge without a trigger pull.

I personally am not comfortable carrying a 1911 C&L. Therefore, I do not carry one. My primary carry is a TDA, chambered, hammer-down, safety on. In that state all I have to to is thumb off the safety and pull the trigger, just like a 1911 (the only difference being a harder pull), and yet even if the safety is nudged off, the gun will not fire without a conscious 20-lb pull of the trigger, so I'd probably be comfortable with a decock-only TDA as well. It's all personal choice, and it's why there's no one gun that everybody carries (though they all have various rotations of popularity; 1911s are enjoying a certain vogue, while safe-actions never really became unpopular).


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## vernpriest (Jan 15, 2008)

You need to be comfortable with what you are carrying, but carrying an unchamber gun may very well turn it into a paperweight. People react very differently once put under stress. Our thought processes become skewed and we lose fine motor skills, develop tunnel vision, cannot hear peoples voices and noises around us, etc. You can find video of trained police officers not being able to unholster weapons, click off the safety, or even aim when they get put under stress in a gunfight, and they train more than the average person.

If these things can happen to them, they can happen to CCW holders as well. I personally would not want to add a task like racking the slide to the list of things I need to do in an emergency. Carrying a double action semi-auto is no different than carrying a revolver. I would suggest training with it enough that you become confident in carrying it loaded and ready to go. If you were ever put in a position of using it and it didn't go bang when you pulled the trigger (because you forgot to rack it) you may very well end up dead. Just my opinion though.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

No matter what type of gun I have ever carried, I carry it with one in the chamber. 1911s' cocked and locked, DA/SA chambered and safety off, DAO chambered, Sig chambered and de-cocked. In a situation where you must get your gun in an instant, chances remembering to turn a safety off and/or racking one into the chamber seems like a lot to remember in a split second with your adrenalin is flowing. Also, what if your injured before you can get to your gun and are not able to rack the slide back, or you need to do it quietly. Hard to do if you have to rack one in the chamber.


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## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

What are the statistics of bullets going off without being struck by a firing pin? I am guessing it is pretty damn low...not sure if there are any reported cases or not. Either way...assume that it can happen once in 5,000,000,000 (five billion) instances. Would you rather have the bullet go off while chambered or while in the magazine well? I am not sure which would be the better outcome in the end. Either the gun fires a bullet somewhere, or the magwell blows up...don't know which is worse.

But then again...what are the chances that a bullet will go off by itself?

I personally belive that carrying chambered is safe if the gun owner is safe and always cautious. I do not fear my gun "going off" as much as I fear the bullet itself "going off". With a single action mode and safety enabled...I am less confident in the gun. I do not have the balls to carry locked and loaded 1911 style.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Good words...I've fired my P99 on DA and the trigger pull was ridiculously long and heavy. My holster completely covers the trigger guard, so carrying with one in the chamber should be alright.


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Quite honestly, if you're not familiar enough with a pistol to carry it loaded, you probably shouldn't be carrying it at all. Seek additional training if you aren't sure you can handle the weapon safely.


What he said. A half-loaded gun is close to useless.

Practice keeping your finger straight alongside the gun, outside the trigger guard, until your sights are on the target. In fact, rather than spending time practicing racking on the draw (slow, risk of misfeeds, risk of accident if your finger gets into the trigger guard), spend your time doing the Up-Down drill. Down = finger off the trigger, straight alongside the frame. Up = get a sight picture while putting your finger on the trigger. Up. Down. Up. Down. Up. Down. Do that about a thousand times (Wax on; wax off.) Once you have that conditioned reflex locked in, carry a round in the chamber.

And please unload your pistol seven or eight times before practicing the Up-Down drill, and sight in on something really bulletproof and inexpensive to repair, like a brick wall.


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## Black Metal (Jan 16, 2008)

My Rami's safty will only engage if the hammer is cocked, so i have the option of cocked and locked or chambered with the hammer down. The main reason i picked this gun is because its hard to find a sa/da 9mm this compact for less then $800 (with the exception of the p239) I prefer the single action trigger pull but dont want to carry cocked and locked. So chambered with the safety off it is for me.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

One of the reasons I chose a Ruger P345 is the fact that I can carry one in the tube and 8 in the mag and you can do a lot of stupid things with it as long as the safety is on. As long as it functions according to its design we're ok. Now I endevor NOT to do anything stupid with it, but it's nice to know it ain't gonna blow a hole in my butt or groin as long as I do my part. In order to have an "incident" the safety would need to be moved to fire and a full DA trigger pull while it was holstered. At least I have two layers of safety IF I do my part. If your pistol is DA on the first shot and you use a holster that protects the trigger you should be fine as long as you don't stick your finger in to the firing position until you are well clear of your holster and starting your final aproach to the target. Practice your draw with an empty gun till it's muscle memory and you are not even remotely tempted to stick the business finger in the hole before the pistol is in front of you and on its way to the target.
It really is just proper gun handling anyway. We should always think about what we are doing but we should have trained our bodies to do the right thing before we think it. If you get in to a "situation", your body will instinctually do what it has been trained to do automatically.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I did some reading on the P99 safety features, and Jeff's right on the money. The striker can't make contact with the primer of a chambered round unless the trigger is pulled...that's assuming the gun is functioning properly, and with as many times a week as I take it apart, inspect it, and clean it, it should never back out on me when I need it. The first time I went shooting, I decocked it and fired it. It took me for-ever to get the striker to pull back and drop. Point very well taken on the DA pull being the external safety, Jeff. You literally could not "accidentally" pull the trigger in DA mode while yanking it from its holster or getting shaky under stress. It's also extremely loud racking the slide on a P99. Not sure how it compares volume-wise to other modern handguns, but it's not something you could do quietly if needbe...another excellent point.

Well guys, thanks a bunch for your input. I always say hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. And in worst case scenario, not having to rack the slide could mean all the difference. And if I DO have the time and presence of mind to rack the slide, it can be done to put it in SA mode. I'll be sure and do some practice holster draws while I wait for my CCDW license to show up. I do practice a lot of quick-up-and-aim, and I'm getting a lot more proficient at being able to yank the gun up with one or both hands and have the sights instantly lined up. The green front sight definitely helps a lot with that.


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## astrogus (Sep 16, 2007)

When I do carry my auto, it's one in the chamber/ uncocked. The first round of every reload at the range I do DA. It certainly takes getting used to.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

I agree-chamber loaded....old heads who carried the 1911 in their waistband used to teach to carry barrel empty...then rack the slide...if one hand was tied up...they'd rack it by dragging the sights down their leg...works with practice, but with modern guns, not necessary...only caveat I'll offer is with an LDA or Glock-type trigger...trigger guard must be covered by a holster...no shoving it into your belt....unless you like loud noises......


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## P35 (Jul 30, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> Quite honestly, if you're not familiar enough with a pistol to carry it loaded, you probably shouldn't be carrying it at all. Seek additional training if you aren't sure you can handle the weapon safely.


+100
this HAS to be about the most beat to death question on firearm boards


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I can see it now. Yank my P22 out when I'm attacked. Tell the attacker, "hey dude, hang on a second, I'm not ready." Insert the key into the trigger safety and turn it to F, then rack the slide, then switch the hammer safety off, then say, "okay, attack me. I'm ready."


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## dourdave (May 6, 2007)

Irrespective of what you carry or what you think, when you draw you must be immediately able to fire. Just what is the Issue ??


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## Dsig1 (Dec 23, 2007)

I was a bit freaked out, at first, carrying my SA Champion 1911 cocked and locked but soon realized that it was the same as carrying my SW Sigma with a loaded chamber. The hammer inside my SW or a Glock is always in a cocked position and ready to drop when the trigger is pulled. All of the advise here is spot on. If you're not comfortable carrying with one in the chamber, you may be better off not carrying at all. :smt076


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

The issue I had with carrying with one in the chamber is if I drop the gun. The odds of that happening are slim, but I'd hate to drop it and have it fire the chambered bullet. But Jeff cleared that up for me, so it's not an issue.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

Can someone clear the cobwebs for me? I "remember" the Combat Commander of the 70s having a block between the hammer and firing pin so that it was safe to carry all the way down on a round...same with the Hi-Power....am I right or wrong????


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## polyguy (May 4, 2007)

ALWAYS chambered...always. I carry semi-cocked in case there is any curiosity.
Honestly, you need your gun to act as soon as you can. That 1/2 sec or whatever it takes to rack that slide...man oh man.


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## Landor (Jan 31, 2008)

I think this situation is very common among the people who just received their license. Including myself when I first got mine. I bought a gun with a de-cocker. My personal opinion now is one in the chamber. I carry a Glock 19 or an XD45c with one in the chamber. I use a good holster, one that fully covers the trigger. Once you get comfortable with yourself and your firearm things might change for you. In the end it is personal preference. Just keep in mind how you feel about it today might not be how you feel about it tomorrow. Keep your finger off the trigger and you are good to go. 

Good luck and stay safe..


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## jmg (Aug 16, 2007)

I carry my DA/SA Beretta with one in the chamber and decocked.
The safety is off because for me the long and heavy trigger pull in DA is enough.


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

sheepdog said:


> Can someone clear the cobwebs for me? I "remember" the Combat Commander of the 70s having a block between the hammer and firing pin so that it was safe to carry all the way down on a round...same with the Hi-Power....am I right or wrong????


Never heard of that. I owned quite a few Series 70 Colts, and still own a LW Commander and a Government Model made in the 70's. No such block. Hammer down on a loaded chamber is an unsafe practice. Not because the gun might fire if dropped. It could, but it's unlikely, and besides, if it did, it would have to hit muzzle first, and the bullet would go into the deck.

There are two far more serious safety concerns with "Condition Two." To lower the hammer on a loaded chamber, you have to disengage the thumb safety, depress the grip safety, and put your finger on the trigger. The only thing that keeps the gun from firing is your thumb easing down the hammer. Thumbs have been known to slip.

If you manage to get your pistol into Condition Two without making a loud bang, then when it is time to draw, and somebody is trying to kill you, you have to use your thumb to cock the hammer. The thumb safety will be off, and your hand will have a very precarious grip on the gun. Try it with an unloaded gun pointed at a safe backstop: with your thumb operating the trigger, you don't have a firm grip on the gun, and your trigger finger is right there trying to get on to the trigger.

Condition One (cocked-and-locked), yes. Condition Three (empty chamber) only if required by some iddiwa regulation. Condition Two, never.


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## P97 (May 8, 2006)

Sheepdog, don't know about the Colt because I haven't had one, but most all the old guns would go off if one was in the chamber and it got a hard jar. Thats the reason for the firing pin block on the newer guns. The old revolvers had to be carried on a empty to keep it from firing when the hammer got hit with something.


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## EntropyDF (Feb 7, 2008)

Questions like this, though very common, always worry me. It speaks to the wrong frame of mind when carrying a gun. 

There is only one reason to pull a gun, and it is life a death situation when your ability to react in a split second is crucial to your survival. We do not pull a gun to "scare people off", or to hold in our hand while we sneak around the corner like in the movies. It makes from great stories, but bad reality. 

When a gun is pulled in an emergency it should only be because you have a target and you have no other choice. The simple act of pulling a gun reduces you options - you can no longer talk you way out of it, nor safely remove yourself from a situation. The non-violent options for resolution have mostly evaporated. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 

If your gun can't be made to go "bang" within 2-3 seconds of that need then you are doing this all wrong and should just have left that gun at home. 

Just my $0.02


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

EntropyDF said:


> If your gun can't be made to go "bang" within 2-3 seconds of that need then you are doing this all wrong and should just have left that gun at home.


2-3 seconds is more than enough time to draw and rack the slide. But those 2-3 seconds aren't always there.

I can think of lots of scenarios when there would be ample time to rack the slide. But in the event I ever get jumped from behind, or take a gunshot or nasty blow before I know what's happening, I need to be able to draw and pull the trigger.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

EntropyDF said:


> There is only one reason to pull a gun, and it is life a death situation when your ability to react in a split second is crucial to your survival. We do not pull a gun to "scare people off", or to hold in our hand while we sneak around the corner like in the movies. It makes from great stories, but bad reality.


Actually, in reality, we pull guns to "scare people off" WAY more than we pull guns to shoot people. Check out the stats from Gary Kleck and John Lott, which show that 19 times in 20, the _mere presence_ of a firearm is enough to dissuade the bad guy from violence.



> When a gun is pulled in an emergency it should only be because you have a target and you have no other choice. The simple act of pulling a gun reduces you options - you can no longer talk you way out of it, nor safely remove yourself from a situation. The non-violent options for resolution have mostly evaporated.


So if the guy comes skidding to halt on his heels and screams for mama, you shoot him anyway? Of course not. You hold him at gunpoint for the cops, or just tell him to scram. I'd say you have "safely removed yourself" from a bad situation without shooting anyone. According to the stats from pro-gun researchers, that's basically how it usually goes down.

Put another way, there's seldom any reason to wait to pull your gun until the situation has deteriorated to the point where your _only_ option is to shoot. Better to bring it out when the situation requires and the law allows, and give the guy the opportunity to surrender or seek greener pastures and easier prey.



> When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


Maybe. But if my options, using the analogy in this trite old phrase, are (a) to scare the nail into the hole _without_ hitting it, or (b) wait until the very last moment to whack the nail, and give up any chance of _not_ having to hit the nail...I'll usually choose plan (a).

Plan (a) will probably keep me from being arrested, sued, losing my nice "hammer," and maybe having to commit unspeakable violence in front of my loved ones, who will forever look at me differently.



> If your gun can't be made to go "bang" within 2-3 seconds of that need then you are doing this all wrong and should just have left that gun at home.


I agree with that. Even in the 19 times in 20, a fast and confident presentation may be what causes our opponent to change his mind.

Jeff Cooper once told a funny story about a gun carrier in, I think, Phoenix. Gun Guy is stuck in traffic. Hoodlum comes up to car and flings open door, obviously about to commit robbery. Gun Guy has 1911 in hand, down low so bystanders can't see.

"What do you want?" asks Gun Guy.

"I want to be somewhere else," is reply from startled would-be robber.

No shooting, no Gun Guy at grand jury, no lawsuit, no custom 1911 rusting in evidence room. This is a win.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

I agree with Mikes mode of thought here. The mere presentation of a firearm is enough to ward off a would be BG that isn't cranked out on something. The ones that do run off, what are they going to do call the cops and tell them you pulled a gun on him to stop their criminal activities? I know a lot of CCW instructors try to drum in our heads to never pull our weapon unless you are 100% sure your going to fire it, but if I can just pull my gun and end a bad situation without firing a shot that is a huge win in my book.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> "What do you want?" asks Gun Guy.
> 
> "I want to be somewhere else," is reply from startled would-be robber.


More like "I want to be somewhere else so I can change my underwear." :smt033


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## AndyF150 (Feb 4, 2008)

If you are going to take the time, money, and effort to carry a handgun on you for self-defense, you need to feel comfortable carrying said handgun in the manner that it was designed to be carried in. Any modern handgun was designed to be carried with a round chambered. Chances are that you will be dead if you have to take the time to rack the slide to chamber a round. If you are in a position to draw your weapon, there is a good chance that the bad guy already has a weapon drawn and aimed at you. The bad guy is not going to wait for you to chamber a round. If you don't feel comfortable carrying a chambered weapon, DON'T CARRY!


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> "What do you want?" asks Gun Guy.
> 
> "I want to be somewhere else," is reply from startled would-be robber.


Reminds me of a Family Guy episode where Stewie is waiting for the man in white to return to put him back in the womb.

"Greetings man in white...I've been expecting you."

"What? Who said that???"

"Peek-a-boo, I see you. You're getting warmer..."

"What do you want?"

"Freedom! What do you want?"

"I wanna get the hell outta' here!!!"

"Oh I'm sorry, we're fresh out of that. I think all that's left is untimely death."

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???"

"It's a boy." [ZAP!]


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

Back when I carried my Combat Commander and Hi-Power down on a loaded round, I was poor, young, ignorant as a shovel, and left-handed...my habits improved quickly as I was priviliged to have the one and only Jim Clark handmake an ambi safety for my Commander...and got rid of the Hi-Power...thanks for the refresher.....:smt023


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## EntropyDF (Feb 7, 2008)

Mike,

Thanks for the reply, though I think you missed my point.



> Actually, in reality, we pull guns to "scare people off" WAY more than we pull guns to shoot people. Check out the stats from Gary Kleck and John Lott, which show that 19 times in 20, the mere presence of a firearm is enough to dissuade the bad guy from violence.


A weapon in the hands of a private citizen must be drawn with intent to use, anything else is deadly. When you draw you gun you must be 100% prepared to pull that trigger, and all the life changing consequences of it. You do not pull a gun with the intent to scare someone off - that doesn't always work.



> Jeff Cooper once told a funny story about a gun carrier in, I think, Phoenix. Gun Guy is stuck in traffic. Hoodlum comes up to car and flings open door, obviously about to commit robbery. Gun Guy has 1911 in hand, down low so bystanders can't see.


In your example Gun Guy should have been absolutely prepared to shoot, especially at that range. Had the robber been hopped up on drugs, desperate, or just didn't care if he lived or died Gun Guy would have had only moments to act.

You cannot count on your assailant changing his mind, nor should you have any reasonable expectations of the scare factor. Count on the other guys being faster, stronger, and crazier than you have any reason to expect. Do not preempt, but be prepared to respond in a split second.

I think what I am trying, ineloquently, to say is that carrying requires a certain mindset. If you can comfortabley go out with a gun that is unloaded, without a round in the chamber, then you may as well go out unarmed. This is serious stuff.


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## PanaDP (Jul 20, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> Quite honestly, if you're not familiar enough with a pistol to carry it loaded, you probably shouldn't be carrying it at all. Seek additional training if you aren't sure you can handle the weapon safely.


Bingo. If you can't draw and immediately fire, you might as well be carrying a paperweight in a holster, or a candlestick, or any other small bludgeoning weapon.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

EntropyDF...I think Mike's point was that you don't always have to pull the trigger. Your point was that if you do draw, you must be prepared to pull the trigger. While you should always be prepared to throw some lead at someone, you may not need to fire the gun. Be 100% prepared to fire, but act responsibly once you do draw and only fire if the conditions require it.


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## glock27bill (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree with everyone who would not carry without one in the chamber.

I carry my Glock in a retention holster rig that sildes off of a bracket on my belt, so I'm never pulling the gun out of the holster unless it's to shoot.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

*EntropyDF*, I agree completely. We must always be fully prepared to use our weapons when we draw them, even if the overwhelming majority of the time they will simply be returned to the holster without a shot being fired. Part and parcel of this is, of course, carrying a fully-loaded weapon.

But we shouldn't let our training be guided by the notion that we always have to shoot as soon as we come out of the holster. We need to think about things like verbal warnings, how to hold someone at gunpoint, how to contact the police when holding someone, etc. Basically, I'm saying it goes much deeper than just being prepared to execute a swift draw-and-fire.


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## camguy (Feb 8, 2008)

One in the pipe absolutely.


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## Mdnitedrftr (Aug 10, 2006)

The first day I carried, I carried without a bullet in the chamber, just cause I was nervous, but since then, a bullet is chambered whenever its on my hip.

A few of my friends think Im crazy for carrying a chambered gun without a manual safety, but I just tell them I have a saftey (besides the passive safeties), its called dont pull the trigger.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Mdnitedrftr said:


> A few of my friends think Im crazy for carrying a chambered gun without a manual safety


These guys are clearly duffers. I wouldn't listen to a single one of their opinions about guns or shooting.


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## Thunderhawk (Jun 28, 2006)

> An empty gun is a very expensive stone in a leather (or plastic) holder.


When I carry an auto there's always one up the pipe.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Something else came to mind last night as I was practicing drawing with the chamber empty. What if my hand were to slip on the slide? Or what if the BG had ahold of my left hand? I've completely thought this over and now my thinking is if you can't draw and fire with one hand, there could be situations where you didn't have use of the second hand, or the second hand slipped on the slide. I've unloaded my gun completely and practiced dryfiring it in DA. No way I'll ever pull the trigger unintentionally.

So I will be carrying with a full mag, plus one in the chamber, decocked. Thanks for all the great input.


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## Dsig1 (Dec 23, 2007)

If anyone gets the TRU TV channel or, you can go to www.trutv.com , you can witness a number of real life occurrences where firearms are used in law enforcement and self defense situations. The remarkable thing to be aware of is the speed at which things can happen; how fast a situation can turn bad. From what I've seen, I'm even reconsidering carrying my 1911 SA cocked and locked because missing the safety could be fatal. I'm more comfortable with my DAO Sigma or XD.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I've watched it a few times. I like the ones where the officer is talking to the person they pulled over by the officer's cruiser, and some idiot runs into the car in front of it.


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## Dsig1 (Dec 23, 2007)

Last night had multiple episodes of LEO's in situations that looked very tame at first and the, from nowhere, the BG pulled a gun and shot. It was so quick in some instances there was very little time to react. There was also a clip of a female LEO who was called to a domestic dispute where a woman had a knife and was threatening her roommates. The roommates got out of the home but the woman with the knife came out also. The lady officer back-peddled with gun drawn and about 15 feet between them. Then the woman with the knife charged and even with the weapon in ready position, leveled at her chest, the officer barely got the fatal shot off. It gave true credence to the 21 foot rule.


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

Dsig1 said:


> I was a bit freaked out, at first, carrying my SA Champion 1911 cocked and locked but soon realized that it was the same as carrying my SW Sigma with a loaded chamber. The hammer inside my SW or a Glock is always in a cocked position and ready to drop when the trigger is pulled. All of the advise here is spot on. If you're not comfortable carrying with one in the chamber, you may be better off not carrying at all. :smt076


Not quite; most striker-fired pistols return the striker to a half-cocked state. The trigger pull finishes cocking and then releases the striker. It's one of Glock's 3 safeties; the trigger latch prevents the trigger from moving, the pin block prevents the pin from contacting the primer, and the half-cocked striker provides insufficient force to send the pin into the striker if all else fails.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Liko81 said:


> Not quite; most striker-fired pistols return the striker to a half-cocked state. The trigger pull finishes cocking and then releases the striker. It's one of Glock's 3 safeties; the trigger latch prevents the trigger from moving, the pin block prevents the pin from contacting the primer, and the half-cocked striker provides insufficient force to send the pin into the striker if all else fails.


Same with Walthers...however, the XDs are fully cocked, and the trigger creep before the striker drop is resistance as the block is dropped. Being that I'm possibly getting an XD to replace my Walther, I've learned this. However, it makes for an extremely quick and light trigger pull, which is great for SD, but demands that the owner be very vigilant about when he/she puts his booger hook on the bang switch.


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