# 17 states oppose national concealed carry reciprocity



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

17 states oppose national concealed carry reciprocity


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Surprise, surprise


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...The implication, however, is that 33 states will accept national concealed-carry reciprocity.
That's a clear majority.

New York, New Jersey, Illinois, D.C., Maryland, Delaware, and those 11 or 12 others: You lose. Get over it.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...The implication, however, is that 33 states will accept national concealed-carry reciprocity.
> That's a clear majority.
> 
> New York, New Jersey, Illinois, D.C., Maryland, Delaware, and those 11 or 12 others: You lose. Get over it.


My thoughts exactly. We win, you lose! No trophies given to losers.... Deal with it!!


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

It is the attorney generals from those states and not necessarily the people of those states........


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

It would feel like justice if 33 states crammed this down the throats of those states who have foisted so much BS on the rest of us. But, I can't help being worried about the unexpected consequences of the federal government usurping state sovereignty. Besides, by the time the feds agree on something that a majority will vote for, it will likely be 'toothless,' anyway.

I'm mostly just content to let the states have their own stupid laws, and I'll spend my money in all of the other states. If the people of those 'anti' states keep electing crooks and fools, they simply have to live with whatever they get.


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## yellowtr (Oct 28, 2016)

As you all know, NYS has crazy CC laws and regs. Permits are allowed but one with a CC cannot open carry unless they are hunting/fishing/trapping. Funny when in nearby states of Vermont, NH and Maine, open carry does not require a permit but you do require a permit to CC. All you need to get and open carry any pistol in these states is the standard Federal background check with zero waiting time. The same check we all go through no matter what firearm you are buying. 
And to make things worse for NYS permit carriers, reciprocity by most other states for a NYS permit does not exist. I do believe Vermont honors NYS carry permits. One would think that if you made it through the NYS process of getting your permit that it would be accepted on the moon!


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## otisroy (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't care to live in or visit any of the 17 states on that list with one exception: New Mexico.

I'm surprised that they're on that list, but the politics have been moving further left there with each passing decade. CCW is easy to get in NM. They allow open carry. Your vehicle is an extension of your domicile so if you want to drop your EDC in the door pocket, you're good.

Luckily for those of us who aren't retired yet, most of those states aren't places where industry is moving.


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## Skolnick (Jan 8, 2017)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...The implication, however, is that 33 states will accept national concealed-carry reciprocity.
> That's a clear majority..


Before 1984, 37 states and the District of Columbia had drinking ages below 21 (at least for 3.2 beer). Then Congress decided to withhold federal highway funds from states that did not raise their drinking age to 21. Wisconsin was the last to cave.

17 states are not a clear majority, but 13 states are even less so. If it was about logic, you could use computers to run things; if it's about politics, logic goes out the window. That's why we have an old saying, "it doesn't have to make sense, it's the law."


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Bisley said:


> It would feel like justice if 33 states crammed this down the throats of those states who have foisted so much BS on the rest of us. *But, I can't help being worried about the unexpected consequences of the federal government usurping state sovereignty.* Besides, by the time the feds agree on something that a majority will vote for, it will likely be 'toothless,' anyway.
> 
> I'm mostly just content to let the states have their own stupid laws, and I'll spend my money in all of the other states. If the people of those 'anti' states keep electing crooks and fools, they simply have to live with whatever they get.


Bingo. I worry about what will be used as the beta test to arrive at the lowest common denominator. Which state might that be. We have it pretty good here in my state and I certainly don't want the feds involved in anything that will diminish my rights.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

yellowtr said:


> As you all know, NYS has crazy CC laws and regs. Permits are allowed but one with a CC cannot open carry unless they are hunting/fishing/trapping. Funny when in nearby states of Vermont, NH and Maine, open carry does not require a permit but you do require a permit to CC. All you need to get and open carry any pistol in these states is the standard Federal background check with zero waiting time. The same check we all go through no matter what firearm you are buying.
> And to make things worse for NYS permit carriers, reciprocity by most other states for a NYS permit does not exist. I do believe Vermont honors NYS carry permits. One would think that if you made it through the NYS process of getting your permit that it would be accepted on the moon!


As 1 of the people who "escaped" from NY, I can feel your pain. The main reason so many states do not accept NYS permits, is because NYS won't accept theirs. Down here in Kentucky there is no permit needed to own a handgun, OC is acceptable, and a permit is only needed for CC. Our permit is actually a CCDW (Conceal Carry Deadly Weapon) permit. It allows carry of pretty much anything; handguns, automatic knives, brass knuckles, etc.

You know what they say; "An armed society, is a polite society"! So true!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

MoMan said:


> As 1 of the people who "escaped" from NY, I can feel your pain. *The main reason so many states do not accept NYS permits, is because NYS won't accept theirs.* Down here in Kentucky there is no permit needed to own a handgun, OC is acceptable, and a permit is only needed for CC. Our permit is actually a CCDW (Conceal Carry Deadly Weapon) permit. It allows carry of pretty much anything; handguns, automatic knives, brass knuckles, etc.
> 
> You know what they say; "An armed society, is a polite society"! So true!


That's a shame as it's not the permit holders fault that New York's gun laws are so screwed up. This sounds like more of a tit for tat kind of thing. I'm glad that my State of Arizona will honor New York's permits.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

desertman said:


> ...it's not the permit holders fault that New York's gun laws are so screwed up...


Sorry: I call BS.
It is indeed the NYS permit holders who are at fault.
The permit holders elect their representatives, and New York State voters keep electing Progressive Socialists to the state legislature, as well as to our national legislature.
When they finally realize that Schumer and Clinton do not have their best interests in mind, things may change.
But don't hold your breath in anticipation.


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## RAEIndustries (Oct 6, 2017)

More like the other 33 didn't get the memo or permission to respond yet


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Sorry: I call BS.
> It is indeed the NYS permit holders who are at fault.
> The permit holders elect their representatives, and New York State voters keep electing Progressive Socialists to the state legislature, as well as to our national legislature.
> When they finally realize that Schumer and Clinton do not have their best interests in mind, things may change.
> But don't hold your breath in anticipation.


Unfortunately the permit holders are vastly outnumbered in the State of New York same for California. Both of those states are hopelessly run by Democrats. I don't ever see that changing. Especially in California. A lot of Californians who vote Republican are voting with their feet and coming into Arizona. Same for New York except a lot of New Yorkers head south. As that happens there are fewer and fewer Republicans left in those states. For those that remain, their political clout gets weaker and weaker and the gun laws become more oppressive. It's more about political retribution than anything else. As Cuomo "I'll Duce" made it quite clear after the passage of New York's "Safe Act" that: "Those that do not think like him are not welcome in New York." What better way to punish your political enemies than to criminalize their lawful behavior and possessions?. You have to give the gun owners of New York State a lot of credit as the compliance rate for the "Safe Act" is very low, somewhere around 4%. They know full well that swines like Schumer and Clinton do not have their best interests in mind. But when you're that outnumbered and your ranks keep shrinking. There's really not a God damn thing that can be done about it other than moving and getting the hell outta' there. Unfortunately that's the hard cold reality.

Just thank God that we have an electoral college deciding our president. Otherwise both California and New York would be electing the president. Keep in mind that the president can pack the courts. We can also be thankful that each state has two senate seats regardless of population. Most of the counties throughout the United States are "Red". That's why it's difficult to get any major gun control legislation passed on the national level. Even after a mass murder involving firearms takes place. The individual states though are a different animal. Fortunately only 17 state's attorney generals are opposing reciprocity legislation. That's only about a third of the states.

Some people for some reason or the other are stuck living in those states and others like them. Mostly because of their jobs, for others it may be leaving all of their family, friends and everything they are familiar with. Which for some is not such an easy thing to do.

Most of upstate New York is Republican and pro 2nd Amendment and they do vote accordingly. The same is true for rural California. Yet their major cities along with their metropolitan area's have the majority of the population and are heavily Democratic.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be a single God damn Democrat in any public office throughout the United States. However the country is split about evenly and our adversaries have just as much of a right to vote as we do.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Desertman you are right they need to vote with their feet and move out to Az. I tell all them Yankees how wonderful your state is and low property prices, low taxes, nice beaches, the London Bridge, nice weather much nicer for them than North Carolina. As for them not want CCW if they don't accept our CCW we don't accept your Drivers license, they must get on from our state to drive here.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

tony pasley said:


> Desertman you are right they need to vote with their feet and move out to Az. I tell all them Yankees how wonderful your state is and low property prices, low taxes, nice beaches, the London Bridge, nice weather much nicer for them than North Carolina. As for them not want CCW if they don't accept our CCW we don't accept your Drivers license, they must get on from our state to drive here.


Shit yeah, we'll take 'em. As long as they are defenders of the 2nd Amendment and Constitutional law it doesn't matter to me where they come from. They can only solidify Arizona as a "Red" state. Nice beaches? Yeah, we've got some but the surfin's not that great. London Bridge? That's in Lake Havasu City which is in the Mojave Desert and it's hotter than hell in the summer. Just the other day it was 97, that's in the shade. 120's in the summer are not uncommon.

As for the CCW holders of New York? Most are on our side there brother, and have restricted permits. I'm sure that if you were to ask them, and if they had their way they'd want to have the same freedoms that we have. But that ain't gonna' happen as long as they remain in New York.



























Canyon Lake, --Colorado River,--Apache Lake,--Roosevelt Lake


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The problem is they want to make where they are like where they left instead of becoming part of the culture they want to change it.


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## yellowtr (Oct 28, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Sorry: I call BS.
> It is indeed the NYS permit holders who are at fault.
> The permit holders elect their representatives, and New York State voters keep electing Progressive Socialists to the state legislature, as well as to our national legislature.
> When they finally realize that Schumer and Clinton do not have their best interests in mind, things may change.
> But don't hold your breath in anticipation.


Steve,

As you well know, permit holders do not and would not vote for anyone who is in favor of firearm registration, permitting. We have no say in what happens in Albany, or what happens in DC.

As an example, we voted in a R Senate, House and President to repeal ACA and the R's decided to go back on their promise. What a surprise. It does not matter what the folks want, the bums in power do what they need to maintain their power.

Think I will go up to the range and check if my firearms still shoot straight.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

tony pasley said:


> The problem is they want to make where they are like where they left instead of becoming part of the culture they want to change it.


Yeah, some of them do, mostly Democrats moving to a "Red" state. In which case they have no business moving at all. As far as I can tell you don't see too many Republicans moving to a "Blue" state. Unless of course they absolutely have to. But you just can't assume that everyone that's moving from another state is out to destroy the state that they're moving to. In which case you end up alienating people that are on our side. We can't condemn our friends to a life sentence in hell, either where they are now or by ostracizing them just because of where they originated from.

I can only guess is that those moving from the northeast are moving south because of the climate? In which case politics is not a major factor. What I've found in Arizona is that people moving from California to here are not moving because of the climate as it is almost the same. Politics is a major factor. I can only judge from my own personal experience with people that I know who are from other states. Of the ones that I know all have hated where they lived and the last thing they'd want is for Arizona to be anything like those places. They've embraced their new found freedom, and will fight like hell to keep it.

Obviously there are those who move to another state and do nothing but bitch and moan about their adopted state. Those types of people are complete idiots and more than likely would be miserable no matter where they go. They're miserable people to begin with and take great pleasure in making others miserable as well. Typically Democrats as they are usually the ones out protesting. Waving their little banners, stamping their little feet, shouting their little slogans, and in some cases using violence to get their message across. Spoiled little brats thinking they can change the world to their liking. A world of which they have absolute control.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

yellowtr said:


> Steve,
> 
> As you well know, permit holders do not and would not vote for anyone who is in favor of firearm registration, permitting. We have no say in what happens in Albany, or what happens in DC.
> 
> ...


We've got that with McCain and Flake, I voted against both of them in the primaries. But they carried Phoenix and Tucson. I had no choice than to vote for them in the general election as I would never under any circumstances vote for a Democrat no matter who they nominate. When push comes to shove they will vote the party line. Flake has decided not to seek re-election and McCain in all probability doesn't have long to go. At 81 he should have quit long ago. As much as I respect him for his service, he's a petty, vindictive little man. That being said it's still better than any Democrat.

Fortunately for Arizona we have complete control over our state government. Although possible, I don't foresee that changing any time soon.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...The implication, however, is that 33 states will accept national concealed-carry reciprocity.
> That's a clear majority.
> 
> New York, New Jersey, Illinois, D.C., Maryland, Delaware, and those 11 or 12 others: You lose. Get over it.


I agree, but it always seems like these morons always get their way with stuff like this. :smt076


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

desertman said:


> ...Most of upstate New York is Republican and pro 2nd Amendment and they do vote accordingly. The same is true for rural California. Yet their major cities along with their metropolitan area's have the majority of the population and are heavily Democratic...


I feel sorry for them, being in that situation, but I look at it from a historical perspective.

If you go back to the mid 1800's (even before, actually), there is plenty of precedent where radical leftists were outnumbered, but finally managed to control national politics, anyway. In those days, the radicals were the Abolitionists, and while most people were against slavery, or at least not in favor of it, they did not feel strongly enough about it to usurp the Constitution. Actually, the fact that most folks did not have a really strong opinion, either way, allowed them to emotionalize the issue to the point where the people were finally willing to have a short war (they thought) over it, just to punish the evil southerners who owned slaves. In doing this, they turned a blind eye to the fact that slavery did not violate the Constitution, and instead accepted the moral argument that it was wrong and could not be tolerated. Completely understandable, for sure, but still not legal.

Conversely, in the South, it is inconceivable that the 95% of southerners who did not own slaves were very seriously pro-slavery. But, they were very much against a central government telling the states what they could or could not do within their constitutional rights. Surely these people did not want a bloody four year war to preserve something that they had never, and would never benefit from (slavery), but they would fight to preserve what they perceived as their state sovereignty.

My point here, is that if the politicians of those anti-gun states can gin up enough support to get themselves elected with an anti-gun platform, it is their state's business. If the federal government wishes to assert that the states are in violation of the second amendment, they are legally obligated to sanction them and bring them in line with federal law. But simply making new federal laws that contradict existing state laws only continues an underhanded process that has already been used too much. This needs to be settled constitutionally, just as the states rights of 160 years ago should have been.

You won't see liberals making this states right argument. They give lip service to states rights, but they make the wrong argument.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Bisley, I suspect that a high percentage of that 95% (the non-owners) did not want the slaves to be freed. A great mass of freed slaves was to them pretty much _The Zombies Are Coming_ of their time.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Maybe so. I was just trying to make the states right's argument, and the comparison seemed applicable in regard to the unintended consequences of not resolving such disagreements constitutionally. I'm not saying that this new federal law being proposed for right to carry would start a war, but it might open the door for a new round of federal laws that circumvent the Constitution.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

All this happened probably before your time, so is ancient history, but - Vermont was a low key, mostly rural, thoroughly Red state, until Ike's Interstate made it so casually easy for Southerners (from New Jersey, New York City, Connecticut, them southerners) to get here. They sure didn't adapt to _our_ lifestyle.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Most Yankees that move here are escaping the excessive taxes of their home state. Then they want to change the culture here to be like where they ran away from. Wanting the government to spend money on their pet projects and interfering with family businesses that have been around for decades before they showed up. Example Asheville Speedway a progressive group donated money enough to double the value of the property to buy and close the speedway for ever. Bent Creek park had good hiking and horse trails, a few multi-use trails. They pushed and pushed to make all trails multi-use trails for the bicyclist to ride any where they wanted which endangers hikers and horses and riders. Trying to pass noise ordinances to try stopping shooting on your own property. On and on they go, and more and more time has to be spent working on stopping them instead of enjoying the wonderful place we live in.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

hillman said:


> All this happened probably before your time, so is ancient history, but - Vermont was a low key, mostly rural, thoroughly Red state, until Ike's Interstate made it so casually easy for Southerners (from New Jersey, New York City, Connecticut, them southerners) to get here. They sure didn't adapt to _our_ lifestyle.


They're easy to spot. They're the ones who put everything *BUT* maple syrup on their pancakes.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

What?
You don't put gravy on your waffles?

Heathen!

:anim_lol:

:smt083


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Come on Steve it is biscuits and gravy with grits, waffles with molasses, ham eggs and pancakes.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

tony pasley said:


> Come on Steve it is biscuits and gravy with grits, waffles with molasses, ham eggs and pancakes.


I went out for breakfast, this morning, and had my choice of biscuits with sausage gravy or pork-belly hash.
It was a hard choice to make, but the pork-belly hash won out. It was superb!

Fun Note: Both the cook and I are Jews. She was cooking pork, and I was eating pork. Ecumenicism, I call it: We were as one with the _*****_. :smt033

I have never been able to make a _crisp_ waffle, and the (real) maple syrup we use just makes things worse.
Does anybody have a tip to offer me, on making _really crisp_ waffles?


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Does anybody have a tip to offer me, on making _really crisp_ waffles?


https://www.google.com/search?q=mak...es&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

hillman said:


> All this happened probably before your time, so is ancient history, but - Vermont was a low key, mostly rural, thoroughly Red state, until Ike's Interstate made it so casually easy for Southerners (from New Jersey, New York City, Connecticut, them southerners) to get here. They sure didn't adapt to _our_ lifestyle.


What did you expect? NYC is the center of the universe - all others are hicks, rubes, knuckle-draggers, ********, etc.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

BackyardCowboy said:


> They're easy to spot. They're the ones who put everything *BUT* maple syrup on their pancakes.


People in the south only have access to bad maple syrup. On the other hand, ribbon cane, sorghum, etc. can be found locally, and has at least the opportunity to be good. Personally, I don't like candy for breakfast. Give me some runny eggs and pork products for my breakfast, and I'll add a little strawberry jelly to my buttermilk biscuits for desert, if there is anything left after I sop up my runny eggs.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

cait43 said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=mak...es&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs


Thank You!!!

I shoulda' known to look in Google.
It's got everything (including my daughter).


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