# Former Marine seeking advise.



## transamKEN (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I'm a former US Marine. I say former because I didn't get to finish my tour so I don't consider myself once a marine always a marine. I was discharged when I injured my leg and became 70% permanently disabled. I've shot a variety of rifles over the years ranging from basic 22's, 3006, the M-16 to hummer mounted 50 cals. I have never in my life fired a hand gun though. I know crazy right? Well I've convinced my wife that we should own and learn to use this hand gun (the proper way) together. So now it's research time. After DAYS of gun research I'm considering a Glock 23 Gen 4. On the other hand I'm not sure if my wife who is all of 100lbs will be able to handle this gun or not or if I should go for a Glock 19 Gen 4 just so I can be sure she wont have any issues. I come from a family of cops and military and everyone keeps telling me I want a .40 over the 9MM. Just curious what you guys think or would suggest as my family doesn't let women touch their guns lol. Thanks much guys and I look forward to joining your ranks!


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

Enjoy!

9mm with defensive hollowpoint loads is what I carry. I don't actually carry Glock I just like these videos.

I've heard a lot of trash talked about the Gen4 pistols, it would seem the internet prefers the Gen3


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)




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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

*Watch the 1st 2minutes of this one he makes fun of the .40cal it is funny*






use the 1st 2min to justify your getting the 9mm and not the fact that your wife don't want it. :mrgreen:


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## transamKEN (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks much for the input! The small penis joke had me rolling on the floor.  The reason I was leaning towards .40 is because my father is in law enforcement and he get me unlimited rounds for free. But if a 9MM is all my wife and I need to go out and fire and enjoy ourselves then that's all we want. Believe me lol its not a macho thing at all for me, its safety and being able to handle the gun properly. When I was in the corps. I fired what ever they put in my hands. I just didn't get to re-enlist to qualify with a hand gun. 

I'm going to local gun show in March, so I'll see what I can find in a 3rd gen, thanks for the tip!


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

ponzer04 said:


>


Yea, he meant to say .40's suck in Glocks perhaps with unsupported chambers. However, many LEO's and civilians have no such issue shooting .40. I beleive .40 is an excellent round, somewhat high pressure, yes. Hickok 45's favorite combination is the Glock 27 shooting .40 cal, and he shoots a lot with no problems. Don't use reloads!


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

transamKEN said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm a former US Marine. I say former because I didn't get to finish my tour so I don't consider myself once a marine always a marine. I was discharged when I injured my leg and became 70% permanently disabled. I've shot a variety of rifles over the years ranging from basic 22's, 3006, the M-16 to hummer mounted 50 cals. I have never in my life fired a hand gun though. I know crazy right? Well I've convinced my wife that we should own and learn to use this hand gun (the proper way) together. So now it's research time. After DAYS of gun research I'm considering a Glock 23 Gen 4. On the other hand I'm not sure if my wife who is all of 100lbs will be able to handle this gun or not or if I should go for a Glock 19 Gen 4 just so I can be sure she wont have any issues. I come from a family of cops and military and everyone keeps telling me I want a .40 over the 9MM. Just curious what you guys think or would suggest as my family doesn't let women touch their guns lol. Thanks much guys and I look forward to joining your ranks!


Semper fi, buddy.

I am not familiar with the various Glock nomenclatures, so when you throw a model number out there, I have no idea what caliber it is.

Any 9mm hollow point would be a perfect choice for a self defense pistol.

For a woman, if she cannot handle a 9mm, then you can drop down to a 38 revolver for her.

Those are your two best choices.

Forget about the heavier calibers -- the 45 ACP & 40 cal & 10 mm.

Make sure you both get good instruction at a local gun range. There must be an indoor range for handguns around you somewhere.

Good luck.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

With the effectiveness of current hollow point designs, the only thing the .40 offers over the 9mm is more recoil and less controllability. I've been a diehard .40 fan since it's inception, but I'm a 9mm convert now. Glocks seem especially punishing in .40. Sig 2022's & P250's are far more pleasant to shoot in .40. Sig's latest, the P320, may be ideal if you want a .40, but they aren't available yet. Best advice? Hit a range that rents and try out several handguns to find what you and your wife like best.


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## Holly (Oct 15, 2011)

hud35500 said:


> Best advice? Hit a range that rents and try out several handguns to find what you and your wife like best.


This. You cannot guess what someone else is, or is not, going to shoot well.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I didn't take the time to view the videos in this thread, but the subject of 9mm has been brought up more than once. 

I too, will endorse the 9mm as an effective round. With today's sophisticated ammo and hi-cap mags, the 9mm is indeed, a formidable handgun.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

denner said:


> Yea, he meant to say .40's suck in Glocks perhaps with unsupported chambers. However, many LEO's and civilians have no such issue shooting .40. I beleive .40 is an excellent round, somewhat high pressure, yes. Hickok 45's favorite combination is the Glock 27 shooting .40 cal, and he shoots a lot with no problems. Don't use reloads!


No he said what he said and that is his opinion: in another video he talks about the .40 in his classes and that they don't hold up as well as the 9mm or .45 when you take multiple high round classes. he says he sees them break a lot more and not just in any particular style.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

ponzer04 said:


> No he said what he said and that is his opinion: in another video he talks about the .40 in his classes and that they don't hold up as well as the 9mm or .45 when you take multiple high round classes. he says he sees them break a lot more and not just in any particular style.


Yes, he praises Glock, even saying the Glock 19 is the best handgun in the world bar none in his opinion, and advises his students to all use Glock's.........Safe to say, what he is experiencing in breaks in his classes are .40 cal Glocks don't you think?

Which have been known to Kaboom due to the unsupported chamber pressures especially in re-loads and due to the Glocks light weight taking a beating. He should Run PX4 Storm's in .40 in his classes to see the outcome.

Without a doubt, .40 is more punishing than 9mm and perhaps .45, but some pistols go much longer than others. Just sayin. 40's generally give you slightly better barrier penetration(if any) through car's and their windshields using hollow points, where the average self defense Charlie is probably not going to have to shoot through a lot of cars in self defense, likewise LEO's probably don't run their 40's to extreme round counts and suffer too many breaks if any......I digress. I have a 96FS straight dust cover model. I'm here to say using the stock 13 pound recoil spring shooting just any ole target rounds it puts the casings out in space, seems like 30 feet or so, if I can find them, never had a pistol kick any casing that far, safe to say I run a 16 pound spring in the ole 96. I'd stick with a PX4 storm, H&K, SIg or the new Beretta 96A1 if I was going high round counts w/ the 40 Mr. Yeagar


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Holly said:


> This. You cannot guess what someone else is, or is not, going to shoot well.


Ditto. You need to go to a gun shop and palm-test as many handguns as you can. The one that is "best" for both of you will be the one that's the most naturally pointable, sized right for your hand sizes, and tells you that it is the one. No one here, me or any other gun nut, can tell you wjhat is the best handgun for you. Caliber is less important than hitting what you're aiming at.


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## transamKEN (Jan 27, 2014)

AdamSmith said:


> Semper fi, buddy.


Semper fi to you as well! 



AdamSmith said:


> Make sure you both get good instruction at a local gun range. There must be an indoor range for handguns around you somewhere.


This is a most definitely our top priority. I have no idea how my trigger discipline will be after all these years, and I'm not about to pretend I know a thing about hand guns. I'm an open book to be taught properly. I have access to 3 ranges. The VFW behind my house, my step-father has his own private range on his property which is why my wife is into shooting. (He lives literally in the middle of nowhere) and my father being a deputy sheriff for 20+ years I can go to his range as well as long as he is there with me. Which of course is my very first choice to have folks around me who can correct me when I do things wrong or unsafe. I can also get my CCW training at the same place but he's not recommending it because the county makes you wait forever to get it, so he's sending me to the middle of no where Ohio to get it faster.

I'm really think I'm leaning towards getting two guns, one for just myself and maybe something for the wife like a CZ P-09 9mm. I hear the recoil is almost non-existent I just haven't done much research on that one yet. I'm not pigeonholing myself to Glock either. They just had me sold on safety and reputation from my research. I'm definitely open to suggestions. I don't want to make my wife out to be a pansy either, she can fire her fathers 1911 but after two rounds her hands hurt to bad to continue.

Thank you all for tips and advise! I really am listening. But you guys are right everyone is different and it's time for us to go to the range before we walk into a gun show and just buy guns on reputation alone. We just need to try a variety.



> I didn't take the time to view the videos in this thread, but the subject of 9mm has been brought up more than once. I too, will endorse the 9mm as an effective round. With today's sophisticated ammo and hi-cap mags, the 9mm is indeed, a formidable handgun.


Is the ammo as scarce as people make it out to be? This was another concern of mine. Thank you so much for your input! I can definitely see maybe owning 2 9mm in the house.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I own 8 different Glocks and the 19 is my favorite to shoot and carry. If you want one gun to do target and self defense then a 9mm is good enough to do the job. As with any bullet caliber; shot placement trumps caliber.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

I was gonna ask if two guns is acceptable?

suggestion: Let her be in the driver's seat the entire time for her gun. 

at most the two of you decide on a common caliber and after that let her use her own criteria on her pistol.


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## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

There's a 12 year old girl who shoots USPSA where I shoot. She can shoot 9mm and is maybe 4'10" 90 lbs. She shoots production with an M&P. I shoot CZ's for competition, but I carry a Glock 19. The only problem I see for a small person is limp wristing the Glock.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Does the military even teach handgun shooting anymore? 

Seems like there's a lot of people leaving the military and they say that they've never shot a handgun before. 

I was in the military in the mid 70's, and we had a ton of Colt .45 acp training.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

if your job doesn't afford you a pistol you don't train with it


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

just thought of it we too have a 15 year old girl that just started shooting USPSA with us and she shoot a full sized XD in .40 cal. she does well for a beginner and getting better.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

If you’re planning on buying your first handgun, you should try to put your hands on as many handguns as possible and shoot as many as possible. Everyone has different hand shapes, sizes and finds different types of sights easier to use. The best first gun is the one that you can shoot most accurately. Once you find that, then you can start fine tuning your decision based on weight, concealability, caliber, etc.

There are gun shops that rent handguns to try before buying..... Hopefully there are some in your area......


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

The ammo situation is much better now. You should have no problem finding most calibers, except .22!! I just picked up Russian made 9mm FMJ for $10 per 50 at my local Walmart. I would recommend you purchase your ammo at a retailer rather than at a range. The ranges near me are more expensive for some reason. Of course, I'm in California where everything is more expensive!! Keep us posted on what you finally decide on.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Does the military even teach handgun shooting anymore?
> 
> Seems like there's a lot of people leaving the military and they say that they've never shot a handgun before.
> 
> I was in the military in the mid 70's, and we had a ton of Colt .45 acp training.


When I was in the military, you had to be an officer, or an NCO, or a machine gunner, or in a tank, to rate a 45 ACP.

I have no idea what the military is doing now with the infantry.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

ponzer04 said:


> just thought of it we too have a 15 year old girl that just started shooting USPSA with us and she shoot a full sized XD in .40 cal. she does well for a beginner and getting better.


That caliber will eventually fade away into obscurity. As will the 10mm. As has the 357 and the 38SP.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

AdamSmith said:


> That caliber will eventually fade away into obscurity. As will the 10mm. As has the 357 and the 38SP.


The 45 Gap perhaps, but I disagree with the others you've mentioned. Generally, when you see calibers fade away into obscurity you stop seeing major manufacturers producing firearms for that caliber, I'm not seeing that at all.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

AdamSmith said:


> That caliber will eventually fade away into obscurity. As will the 10mm. As has the 357 and the 38SP.


357 and 38SP are still going strong and I do not vision them ever fading away....... Far too many revolvers around for that to happen.......


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

ponzer04 said:


> if your job doesn't afford you a pistol you don't train with it


???

Strange. None of my jobs ever afforded me a pistol but I train with one on a regular basis... like every two weeks. Not your standard paper punching but a more involved range drills. And now that I am retired, I can do this at my will.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

First off, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the .40S&W. A lot of people choose to carry this caliber and I am one of them. I also have 12 other pistols in 9mm so I am covered with both of these calibers, along with a couple of .45ACP's thrown into the mix. My primary carry gun is one of my gen3 G23's. Would I carry a 9mm? Of course. In fact, my gen3 G19 is hidden in my home as a HD gun.

All of this bantering and arguing and bloviating about this caliber or that is nonsense. The best caliber is the one that works best for the individual. Granted as you move up in caliber, 9mm -> .40 -> .45, there is going to be an increase in the effectiveness of the bullet against a live target (the .40 and the .45 are about equal in this). But the ability to deliver rounds to target, and in particular an effective area of the target, is what's going to put that assailant down.

Ammunition choice (as in load and bullet design) in these three calibers is probably the most important factor in the game. The current thinking is to go with either bonded bullets or ones that act and perform like those that are bonded. The move in recent years is away from frangible designs, the idea being to get that bullet to drive deep into the target with enough mass remaining to break bones when hit and to disrupt vital tissue and organs as much as possible. All to often, frangible bullets make nasty "surface wounds" and don't drive deep enough to do significant damage to what needs to be hit.

Assailants are usually clothed and in the winter, you have coats/jackets, sweat shirts, and other coverings to have that bullet penetrate before it begins its job. Not to mention large people and those hopped up on mind altering substances. A bullets job can be very difficult. Heavier bullets tend to do this better than lighter ones. There are physics involved in all of this as well. A lighter, faster moving expanding bullet is going to expand much more quickly, if it expands, thereby presenting a larger frontal area which in turn creates more resistance to its travel. Heavier bullets with more controlled expansion rates tend to driver deeper into the target where they can do their work.

You'll note that in the videos supplied on page one, Mr. Yeager comes across as rather opinionated. Please keep this in mind when reading or watching his material. Yes, his opinions are probably grounded in real life experiences. But they are still opinions. Once you wade through them, you can extract what information he has to offer. Some would question his "gun = Glock, 9mm = caliber" mentality and I imagine the 1911 and Sig Sauer crew would be among the more ardent of the questioners. Fact is, there are a lot of quality pistols out there from which to choose. The Glock is certainly among the best of the lot, but may not be the best for some individuals. I like them but I also like some others as well.

Bottom line? Nothing is a sure thing. So choose wisely and with great consideration as to what you will carry and use. It's an ever changing technology.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> ???
> 
> Strange. None of my jobs ever afforded me a pistol but I train with one on a regular basis... like every two weeks. Not your standard paper punching but a more involved range drills. And now that I am retired, I can do this at my will.


you obviously didn't read the post directly above this one, or else you would have noticed I was talking about pistols and military jobs/MOS.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> All of this bantering and arguing and bloviating about this caliber or that is nonsense. The best caliber is the one that works best for the individual. Granted as you move up in caliber, 9mm -> .40 -> .45, there is going to be an increase in the effectiveness of the bullet against a live target (the .40 and the .45 are about equal in this). But the ability to deliver rounds to target, and in particular an effective area of the target, is what's going to put that assailant down.


Did you watch the first 2 minutes of the of the Gunfight Rules video??? :numbchuck:


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

ponzer04 said:


> you obviously didn't read the post directly above this one, or else you would have noticed I was talking about pistols and military jobs/MOS.


Gotcha. Missed that.... Thanks for pointing this out.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

ponzer04 said:


> Did you watch the first 2 minutes of the of the Gunfight Rules video??? :numbchuck:


Yes and I hold to what I wrote. The best caliber is the one that works best for the individual, and by this I mean the one with which one can deliver rounds to target accurately, consistently, and confidently. If that happens to be a .40S&W so be it. If it is a 9mm or a .45ACP, that is also just fine. I am not a caliber, or for that matter, a gun snob in that I exclude everything else because it is inferior or some other nonsense. It is what works best for the individual that matters. Granted there are some common sense ground rules, such as buy and carry quality, employ a caliber that has at least a decent track record, etc. But really in the end, it is entirely up to the individual.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

transamKEN said:


> This is a most definitely our top priority. I have no idea how my trigger discipline will be after all these years, and I'm not about to pretend I know a thing about handguns. I'm an open book to be taught properly. .......


OK, maybe this will help! Common first pistol purchase mistakes:

1. Buying a handgun with too small a frame.

2. Purchasing a handgun with too short a barrel or front sight radius.

3. Choosing an inappropriate or (more) difficult-to-use caliber.

4. Failure to, also, purchase handgun shooting/handling/safety lessons from a professional (certified) pistol trainer.

What are the best semiautomatic pistol calibers to learn pistol shooting with? 22 LR, 9 x 19mm, and 45 ACP.

Recoil is NOT a problem. Recoil is A TOOL that a pistol shooter learns how to use, skillfully, in order to hit the target.

Why is 40 S&W a poor choice as a first caliber? Because it has too sharp, too quick, and too heavy a recoil impulse for many (but not all) people to easily master. It takes strong hands and good solid arms to manage 40 caliber recoil well. Some people can do it; others can't; and some people simply don't like, 'working that hard' in order to shoot well. (I've always been one of those people. Unlike, say, 44 Magnum, 40 S&W caliber doesn't offer me enough to make it worth my while to use it.

I do not now, nor will I ever, recommend the Glock platform to a pistol shooting beginner. As a prerequisite to pistol training I demand that every student must know Cooper's Four Rules Of Firearm Safety: backwards, forwards, and inside out. Until a student demonstrates that he has inculcated Cooper's Four Rules into his very HABIT PATTERNS, themselves, I will not trust him with a gun.

Here they are!

*JEFF COOPER'S FOUR RULES OF GUN SAFETY*

*1. The gun is ALWAYS loaded! *

*2. Never allow the muzzle to point at - or, even, so much as sweep across - ANYTHING you are unwilling to see destroyed! *

*3. Never put your finger inside the trigger guard until AFTER you have made a conscious decision to fire! *

*4. CLEARLY identify your target, the target's backstop, and what is beyond! *

*Don't embellish these rules. They are what they are for good reasons! In order for any firearm safety rule to become truly effective it must stop being just a rule, and become a PROFOUND PERSONAL HABIT, instead. 
*
What are the two most common safety mistakes I see on the range? (1) A failure to properly point and direct the muzzle, and (2) Lax trigger finger discipline.

What is the most common handling mistake? Failure to clear a semiautomatic's firing chamber after dropping the magazine. (Happens far more than most people imagine!) Remember:

*After removing the pistol's magazine, there's always ONE MORE LIVE ROUND in the gun! 
*
(By the way I very much doubt that 357 Magnum/38 Special is a, 'dead' caliber. As long as there are handguns there will be 357 Magnum/38 Special calibers. My wife carries one all of the time; I carry one some of the time.)

If you look you can find the ammunition you need. When you find it my suggestion would be to purchase, at least, a case (or 2, 'bricks').

Attending and participating in IDPA/USPSA competitions is a good way to hone your pistol handling skills.

IDPA - Welcome!

Welcome to USPSA.org - Home of the United States Practical Shooting Association

Dry-firing - use snap caps - will help you with the trigger discipline. So will practicing your draw while using an EMPTY pistol.

http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=357.0 (See first post's video!)


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

ponzer04 said:


> you obviously didn't read the post directly above this one, or else you would have noticed I was talking about pistols and military jobs/MOS.


Obviously, some things in the military have changed. At one time, no matter your choice of MOS, everyone went thru basic trng., and then on to AIT, and then specialized schools from there. Basic trng. covered both rifle and handgun trng. extensively.


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## transamKEN (Jan 27, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> Obviously, some things in the military have changed. At one time, no matter your choice of MOS, everyone went thru basic trng., and then on to AIT, and then specialized schools from there. Basic trng. covered both rifle and handgun trng. extensively.


I went in the year 2001 shortly after 9/11. My MOS was phased out to civilians so I was put in the worst MOS (in my opinion) they could have ever put me in.... Motor T. In boot camp we trained on nothing but the M-16. After that we went to a basic weapons training school. There we fired 50 cals, rocket launcher, the M203 grenade launcher attachment for the M-16, a variety of live grenades and a few others that escape me. Hand gun qualifying was offered as an incentive to re-enlist but I had my heart set on jump school and figured I'd catch the hand gun training on the next re-enlistment, but no for us in Motor T it was most definitely not an option. I have no idea what it's like now, I heard they shortened every thing down to get them to the field faster.

EDIT: Just want to say thanks again for all the tips and advise, this forum is awesome and I look forward to learning everything the proper way!


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

transamKEN said:


> I went in the year 2001 shortly after 9/11. My MOS was phased out to civilians so I was put in the worst MOS (in my opinion) they could have ever put me in.... Motor T. In boot camp we trained on nothing but the M-16. After that we went to a basic weapons training school. There we fired 50 cals, rocket launcher, the M203 grenade launcher attachment for the M-16, a variety of live grenades and a few others that escape me. Hand gun qualifying was offered as an incentive to re-enlist but I had my heart set on jump school and figured I'd catch the hand gun training on the next re-enlistment, but no for us in Motor T it was most definitely not an option. I have no idea what it's like now, I heard they shortened every thing down to get them to the field faster.
> 
> EDIT: Just want to say thanks again for all the tips and advise, this forum is awesome and I look forward to learning everything the proper way!


Wow......things really have changed. Handgun training as an re-enlistment option?

When I enlisted back in 1974, I wanted infantry and to be stationed in Europe. To complicate matters worse, I wanted to go to Airborne and Ranger School. My recruiter was upfront and honest with me. Back then, everything you enlisted for, would be guaranteed, as long as you passed all of your training and schools. My recruiter made it very clear that if I didn't pass one bit of my trng., or any of my schools, all guarantees would be null and void, and then, the Army could place you anywhere and in anything (MOS) they wished.

Knowing all that, you can bet your last dollar, I was motivated, and then some. Last thing I wanted to do, was end up stationed some place like Fort Polk, LA., as a cook or a clerk.

All in all, everything went as planned, I got to do what I wanted, where I wanted. Europe was great back in the mid 70's.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I know I have written this a number of times before but I think it bears being presented again.

The most important criteria in the determination of a defensive/combat handgun weapons system is how accurately, consistently, confidently, and effectively you can deliver rounds to target with your chosen gun, caliber, and ammunition. This should be not only your goal, but your deciding factors when selecting and purchasing a defensive handgun. If you can do this with a 9mm, fine. If you perform best with a .40S&W, a .45ACP, or a .357 Sig, that's also fine. If you can do this with several guns and calibers, that's even better.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

Welcome transamKen!

This is a great link to ballistic studies of modern calibers and current in-production self-defense loads. Fun read with lots of testing. Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

I have gone back and forth on the .40 vs. 9mm thing for quite a while. I am recoil sensitive and in the smaller 9mm's I can't tolerate anything lighter than 19 ounces. At 22 ounces the Glock 26 is fairly sharp to shoot. The .40 is out of the question for me. I just would not enjoy it enough to become proficient with it. Would be great if you guys could get some training first and buy the guns later. Then you would have a better idea of what you really like and just what it would be like to try and live with it everyday.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> I know I have written this a number of times before but I think it bears being presented again.
> 
> The most important criteria in the determination of a defensive/combat handgun weapons system is how accurately, consistently, confidently, and effectively you can deliver rounds to target with your chosen gun, caliber, and ammunition. This should be not only your goal, but your deciding factors when selecting and purchasing a defensive handgun. If you can do this with a 9mm, fine. If you perform best with a .40S&W, a .45ACP, or a .357 Sig, that's also fine. If you can do this with several guns and calibers, that's even better.


Excellent point that is always worth repeating. Which is why I am downsizing to a caliber that I can shoot well. MUCH more important than having the biggest gun out there....


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## Donn (Jul 26, 2013)

The one problem she might face is racking the slide on an auto pistol. My son's fiancé couldn't operate either my Shield or Compact 9. The Shield I could understand, recoil spring's pretty stout, but not the 9c. Make sure Mrs can operate any pistol you might be considering.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

KeithC. said:


> Excellent point that is always worth repeating. Which is why I am downsizing *to a caliber that I can shoot well*. MUCH more important than having the biggest gun out there....


That is the essence of it. I do quite a bit of perusing ammo tests and ballistics information so that I can stay current as much as I am able. There are a lot of times when I agonize about which gun/caliber I want to claim as my primary carry sidearm. Over two years ago, I went through an re-evaluation process that lasted the better part of a year where I spent time at the range evaluating a number of my better carry guns. I wound up going full circle right back to the gen3 Glock 23 I have been carrying for seven years. But I also found that several other of my "stable guns" fared very well in that category, too. In particular my M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25" barrel. I shoot that gun a lot and do quite well with it.

Do I find myself not infrequently in a dilemma when weighing my carry guns. Crazy I know, but learn something new, read a few things on a favored website, watch a couple of videos on YouTube and the questions and angst arise.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Donn said:


> The one problem she might face is racking the slide on an auto pistol. My son's _fiancé_ couldn't operate either my Shield or Compact 9. The Shield I could understand, recoil spring's pretty stout, but not the 9c. Make sure Mrs. can operate any pistol you might be considering.


Ahh, Donn, I think you meant to write _fiancée_ (which would be a woman). Not being a wise guy; just thought you might like to know. 

This is one of the reasons, 'Why' my own wife carries a revolver; and I, also, foresee a revolver in my own hands at sometime in the future, too.



SouthernBoy said:


> &#8230;&#8230; The most important criteria in the determination of a defensive/combat handgun weapons system is how accurately, consistently, confidently, and effectively you can deliver rounds to target with your chosen gun, caliber, and ammunition.
> 
> This should be not only your goal, but your deciding factors when selecting and purchasing a defensive handgun. If you can do this with a 9mm, fine. If you perform best with a .40S&W, a .45ACP, or a .357 Sig, that's also fine. If you can do this with several guns and calibers, that's even better.


Yes, and no! Practice, training, and familiarization - the acquisition of effective technique - also have to be factored into the handgun selection process. Based on my experiences as a firearms instructor, I've found that people shoot well whatever caliber it is that they shoot often.

Now, regardless of whatever style pistol is used, are some calibers easier to shoot than others? Yes. 9 x 19mm, and 45 ACP - although differing in their specific recoil characteristics - are easier for most people to control than either 40 S&W, or 357 SIG. Why? My best guess is because of the differences in peak ignition pressure. Both 40 S&W, and 357 SIG have: high, fast, and sharp initial recoil impulses.

9 x 19mm is, also, fast; but, without the significantly increased velocity of the 357 SIG, the initial recoil impulse is much more manageable. With comparable weight bullets, the recoil characteristics of the hottest 9mm loads are almost identical to the performance characteristics of a 357 SIG. (Which is a, 'supped up' 9mm to begin with!)

45 ACP fires much heavier bullets, and has an equally heavy - but, also, much, 'slower' - initial recoil impulse. Consequently, 45 ACP is as easy to manage as 9 x 19mm, but for entirely different reasons. Within normal operating parameters (and with normal shooters) this is, 'Where': practice, training, and familiarization can make all the difference.

The men who taught me how to shoot were very strict. There was no such thing as a, 'comfortable gun'. There was no such thing as a gun that, 'felt good' either. I was required to pick up a gun (any gun, really) and be able to use it effectively. The thought of selecting a pistol with favorable recoil characteristics would have been ludicrous. You either learned how to manage the recoil of the gun you were using; or you wouldn't be allowed to shoot, 'with the big boys' - Period.

Frankly, in spite of today's largely pampered and excessively catered to, socialist society I don't believe that the realities of pistol shooting are any different today. The average shooter's mentality and personal expectations have changed; but the guns, and their skillful and effective use have not.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Glock Doctor said:


> Yes, and no! Practice, training, and familiarization - the acquisition of effective technique - also have to be factored into the handgun selection process.


Yes, and this is what I said, some of which was inferred.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

If you are considering a CZ P-09, you might want to look at the CZ P-01 or the CZ 75 B Compact the P-01 has an aluminum frame, the CZ 75 B Compact is all steel. Both hold 14 rounds have excellent ergonomics and are very easy to shoot.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> Yes, and this is what I said, some of which was inferred.












(Yes, now Carnac sees what you mean!) :smt002


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Space cadets. I'm surrounded by space cadets. And they have brought their aliens (most of whom sneak in from Mexico).

It's over for me.


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