# opinion on a back-up



## minnesota_gunner (Jul 4, 2006)

:smt068 

I plan on carrying my Springfield XD .40 Subcompact 24/7, I can't decide if I should also carry a backup, looking for opinions/advice. My purpose for a backup would be solely for emergency situation (out of ammo in .40, etc.) not due to lack of confidence in the SA XD.

Any recommendations on why to carry a back up, and what type is best...was thinking of like a Kel-Tec .32ACP or a .25.

Thanks fellow lead slingers


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## P97 (May 8, 2006)

It would be a personal thing. I have carried for a long time and have never felt the need for a backup gun. I could see where you might have one taken away from you, and still have one to use if it was well enough concealed.


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

I've never considered a back-up for carrying. In my own mind's scenario, if my Smith & Wesson Model 19 fails, I'll be too dead to use a back-up.

Run out of ammo? Carry more ammo.

I guess my point is, when you need your gun, your first that you need should be your last.

Bob Wright


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I don't currently carry a BUG, but am planning on having one in the near future. My top contenders are either the Kel Tec or the Bersa Thunder. I guess I like knowing that if I have a mechanical problem, it will be easier to just grab another gun than trying to fix the problem. Another reason I have heard (not my reasoning) is that you can give your backup to someone esle you are with (wife, girlfriend, etc.). Provided that person can shoot, you now have another armed person on your side.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Only done it a handful of times...


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

If you have a mechanical problem?

I can only conceive of an emergency situation in which you have determined that you are going to kill the person in front of you, or he will kill you. You draw and fire until he is no longer a threat. Encounter a mechanical problem and you are no longer a threat to HIM.

A more leisurely approach to such a situation would suggest you are entering a gunfight willingly, especially if you have the luxury of time to arm your companion. Who, unarmed, probably doesn't have a carry permit.

The point is, if you see trouble unfolding, you are certainly ill advised to start preparations for it rather than trying to escape the situation. The question arises,"Why would you continue to enter into a potentially dangerous situation? Would the fact that you had an armed companion make you boldly enter a situation you would not otherwise have entered?"

Bob Wright


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

OK, total hypothetical and extreme example. Who knows, you followed your lost dog down dead-end alley. Skipping all the details, BG is coming down the alley, made the threats, and you are legal to defend yourself. You draw and try to fire. You have a FTF. We all know that it is a simple act of racking the slide and bringing a new round into battery. Hell, for you revolver guys it even easier than that!  But, in a stress situation, fine-motor control goes out the window. I'd rather just ditch the primary and go for the BUG. There's less to think about.

As for the other example of arming a companion, like I said, I had heard it argued before and it wasn't my idea. I think that the only situation where I would do something like that is if the wife and I were trying to get the hell out of Dodge, I would pass her a gun so she could defend herself if we because separated somehow.

I completely agree with you that the best fight is one that is avoided. I apologize if my wording made it seem like I was looking to enter a gunfight, because that is the *last* thing I ever want to do. Frankly, if SHTF, the first thing I would be looking to do is get my butt and my family moving in the opposite direction.


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## awall (Jun 15, 2006)

You better check state laws on that also. I have read on Packing.org that some states make it illegal to carry more than one weapn even if you have a CCW. I don't recall which states have that law but some even refered to having a gun and a knife could pose a problem,


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

That's exactly one reason I carry a Model 19 S&W.

Somehow, I don't think anyone without presence of mind to clear his pistol, a practice with which he should be familiar, would find a back-up pistol.

If you're dead set to carry one, go ahead. My point is, I don't see the advantage of it. And, I say again, that initial failure will get you killed.

Bob Wright


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Damn Bob, now you're making me think about getting a revolver!


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

If I've made you THINK you've made my day!

Bob Wright


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## Clyde (Jul 13, 2006)

awall said:


> You better check state laws on that also. I have read on Packing.org that some states make it illegal to carry more than one weapn even if you have a CCW. I don't recall which states have that law but some even refered to having a gun and a knife could pose a problem,


This is a very valid point.

A J-Frame is hard to beat as an backup. I have carried a S&W J-Frame more than any other gun I own. Reason - it's the easiet to carry. (Some Times Primary most of the time backup.)* and yes I have a backup for the J-Frame.

Yes I am a Tackleberry:smt071 I guess.

*Backup may allow a non threatning draw or alternate draw. (i.e. may not be a normal strong side draw) 
May allow you draw when Primary is not as accessable. Say in car with seatbelt or winter coat.

IMHO - Backup not required - but works for me. 
Any who you will be a tackleberry even amoung most shooters. :smt076


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## P97 (May 8, 2006)

I have revolvers and autos. Revolvers will fail to fire. I've had the cylinder lock and fail to turn. To say revolvers is safer for CCW is BS. Either one is capable of fail to fire.


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## Thor (May 11, 2006)

Minnesota has no limit on the number of guns a person may carry. However, they DO have a "duty to retreat" clause. We're working on obtaining the "stand your ground" legislation, but one step at a time. We got "shall issue" in 2003, then suspended due to a lawsuit for the legislation enacted. We got it back right at a year ago.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

I haven't carried a BUG since I left Law enforcement,dont really see a need, now If I lived in LA or NY or even Dallas or Houston I might change my mind but the .45 I carry has 8 and the 2 mags are 14 more so If it aint over by then Im probably dead or dying anyway..........:smt071


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

on the few times i felt it was called for my bug was another 45 acp with the same mag. as primary


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Artical I read a while back put out by the FBI said most gun fights between citizens is over in three shots or less. I carry a 5 shooter with a 5rd back up and that's all. I think with the heart pumping and the tunnel vision I am not going to think about a second gun even if I got one. I don't have to worry about the wife as she's got her own.


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

It is true that any ammunition may have a dead primer resulting in a misfire. But, with the sixshooter, another pulling of the trigger presents a fresh round. This is not true of the auto pistol, which requires cycling the slide to bring another round into battery.

As to locking of the cylinder, I have never had this happen on any gun that I carry on a regular basis. The only times I've had any functioning problem were with guns of considerable age, usage, and heavily loaded ammunition, guns that I only dedicate to hunting, plinking, experimentation, etc.

On many occassions I've experienced separated heads on the cartridge. Again, this posed no problem with the revolver, but tied up auto pistols.

The gun I carry is fairly new, well broken in, sighted in, carefully maintained and loaded with fresh factory ammunition. I will disagree with your assessment that it is not the more reliable choice.

Bob Wright


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

I am a big fan of carrying a BUG if that is what you want to do. All the points made here, both pro and con, are all valid. It is a personal choice, so check your state laws, if it is ok then do it if that is what makes you feel better. 
For the record I don’t usually carry a BUG but I have and will again if I feel necessary.


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## P97 (May 8, 2006)

Bob Wright said:


> It is true that any ammunition may have a dead primer resulting in a misfire. But, with the sixshooter, another pulling of the trigger presents a fresh round. This is not true of the auto pistol, which requires cycling the slide to bring another round into battery.
> 
> As to locking of the cylinder, I have never had this happen on any gun that I carry on a regular basis. The only times I've had any functioning problem were with guns of considerable age, usage, and heavily loaded ammunition, guns that I only dedicate to hunting, plinking, experimentation, etc.
> 
> ...


I would hate to think that the majority of the Police Depts. and the U. S. Armed Services don't know which pistol is the best for self protection.


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

There is considerable difference between military/police usage and the armed citizen. The military situation, and the police situation, allows them the advantage, usually, of going into a firefight with guns drawn. Firepower, regardless of damage to surrounding areas, is the order of the day. Seldom is the soldier or police officer confronted suddenly face to face with their adversary. The present exception is now, of course, but then the handgun has little part in that affair, as the M-16 (A Government Selection, by the way) is the weapon of choice. Again, the nation's police adopted the auto pistol for firepower, not reliability.

Neither you nor I have the luxury of spray and pray. We are reminded that we buy what our bullets hit. (We also buy what the police bullets hit, too.)

We train ouselves on weekends as time permits. The most intuitive weapon to use is the one that the survivor will use. If you are 100 per cent certain you can get your gun into action without a hitch under the worst possible conditions, that is the one to carry. For me, that gun is a Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver.

Bob Wright


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

I'll agree with P97. Modern, quality autos are every bit as realiable as the wheelgun. 

Carry what you feel most comfortable with, be that a wheelgun or an automatic. That being said, one of the biggest advantages to the automatic is the ease of concealiblity due the thinner profile (no fat cylinder). I'm not saying the revolver can't effecivly be covered, I just feel its easier to do with the autos.

Devils advocate again - Clint Smith, one of the nations premire firearms trainers is a HUGE fan of the revolver for personal defensive purposes. Its hard to argue with that. 

I guess what I'm saying its its personal preference. We shouldn't try to force our views on the subject on another. His or her needs and abilities are different than ours.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

jwkimber45 said:


> I guess what I'm saying its its personal preference. We shouldn't try to force our views on the subject on another. His or her needs and abilities are different than ours.


I could not agree more with everything you said, this part in particular. I don't even _concider_ a wheel gun, not because they are not reliable, they are, or because they cannot me concealed well, they can. I don't carry one becaues I cant hit the bottom of a lake if I was standing on the bottom with a revolver with less than a 4 inch barrel.
Im not kidding, I cant hit a pie plate at 7 yards with a snubbie. I am much better with a larger revolver but then there is the weight and the low capacity which are both unacceptable to me.


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## P97 (May 8, 2006)

Bob, just because you carry a revolver only makes it the best for you. Not everyone else. The Auto is best for me, and a lot of other people. Each has their favorite, and that is why they make both. Police and Soldiers are daily faced with quick action and considering where their bullets are going. That don't hold water.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Getting beyond the auto versus revolver debate...

I carry a KelTec P3AT as backup to my main pistol (either a Glock or a Kahr) when off-duty here in Yuma. Reasons:

1. The KelTec is small enough to fit in my pocket. This way, I can have my hand on my gun when walking through a dark lot or feel otherwise mildly insecure. The fastest draw is having the gun already in hand.

2. I am often out and about with other soldiers. They may not be armed, but they sure as hell know how to use weapons. If I had to, I could arm someone else and double my chances of defeating an attack.

3. I carry the KelTec so it is accessible with my support hand, and practice shooting with that hand. My primary shooting arm may be disabled in the opening moments of an encounter, especially if I face a cunning opponent who surprises me. But I can still draw the KelTec and stay in the fight.

If your only concern is running out of ammo in your primary arm, don't bother with the backup gun. You're better off carrying a spare mag and practicing your speedload until you can reload in 1.5 seconds or so (or faster than you can draw a backup gun). The bigger gun is more powerful, easier to shoot well, and holds more rounds than a little gun. The "New York Reload" is gun-magazine horsepucky, in my opinion, if you carry an auto. Not a bad idea for revolver carriers, though, since that design is so painfully slow to reload for anyone this side of Jerry Miculek.

Lacking a crystal ball, I cannot predict the means by which my opponent may attack, or how many allies he may have. It may be a quick affair, with little time on either side. Or I may have a few seconds to prepare. Or we may both fire an initial volley, both make it to cover, and have to use more ammo. I am not a psychic and can't predict the inherently unpredictable, so I usually carry two guns.

I also carry a spare mag for my primary pistol, and several other survival tools: knife, Surefire light, pepper spray, and a cell phone.

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## tex45acp (May 26, 2006)

A question or two here....
Does your automobile have a spare tire?? 
Do you have insurance?? 
Do you have a savings account??

YES
YES &
YES

I want to have what I need when I need it. I have had cars that the spare tire has never touched pavement, Insurance policies that were never drawn on and never had to take from my savings account to cover unexpected expenses......but they were there if I needed them.

Hell yes I cary a BUG!!!!


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I carry both at different times. I use factory ammo when I do. I have locked more than one revolver with a cap going off and no powder in the shell. Now you know why I carry factory. Less chance of ammo failure.


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## mhammer3333 (Jul 11, 2006)

I have glock 23 as a primary and recently bought a glock 27 to use as a back up. My reasoning was same caliber, gun function is the same and the clips from the 23 fit in the 27.


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