# Re Thinking DA/SA



## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

First off I'm somewhat new. Been carrying for three years and just started shooting at age 61 (soon to be 66). I love my Glocks and carry a G17 gen 4 AIWB. But I have been thinking of maybe switching my carry firearm to a Beretta PX4 or a CZP07. I had a Sig P239 (Used) in .40S&W but could not get any where close to how well I could shoot a G19/G17. But AIWB is a special animal. I have no Qualms about safe gun handling. If I holster my Glock. It is slow and deliberate and i look at my holster. But I would like to have a firearm (with a decocker) that I can hold hammer down. This might not happen till next year but it's a thought. Right now i am a STRIKER FIRED SNOB.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

As an owner of Berettas, I liked the de-cock-safe function, but after the purchase of a CZ PCR,

the de-cocker function has become my favorite - especially if one is in the pipe.

No Strikers for me unless they have 8 wheels. All my pistols are hammer guns.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

LuckyGunner just had a good piece on this

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-switched-double-action/

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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I prefer striker fired pistols because they are either DAO or a SA hybrid (think M&P). I don't want any externally settable safeties (there is one exception) and I like the same trigger pull from first shot to last shot. My primary carry guns are either Glocks or M&P's for now. And while I own three DA pistols, I am not a fan of carrying one for obvious reasons - to me.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

While I do have a couple of pistols with decockers, and really don't mind them, I voted for the Glock option. While I do have and carry a G19, my ONLY reason for selecting that option in the poll is because I absolutely do believe that the safety is between your ears! I carry hammer fired, decocked (with one in the pipe) occasionally. I have one handgun that is my "utility" pistol, it is the one I will carry if there is any chance it could get abused (think 4 wheeling, working in a muddy environment, you get the picture!), and it is an absolute tank when it comes to handling any task. I know the G19 will take the abuse as well, but the other pistol wasn't quite the same $$ as the G19.

MO


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I personally won't use any handgun for defensive purposes that isn't DA/SA. I wasn't always that way, but I am that way now.

Obviously, everyone here knows that Berettas are my favorite platform. However, because of hip and lower back issues, I can no longer take the weight of carrying one. So, my concealed carry gun is actually a HK P2000 DA/SA 9mm. That's about the heaviest gun I can comfortably carry now. But for home defense and pure range shooting, the 92 platform is my favorite. I've honestly owned just about everything over the past 20+ years, and I keep coming back to Berettas.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Kennydale said:


> But I have been thinking of maybe switching my carry firearm to a Beretta PX4


 Now you got it. I'd recommend the compact, the sweatheart of the bunch. In my opinion the PX4's have a very good DA which is easy to hit with. Just need to put some time behind the DA/SA. It takes all of 5 minutes to convert the PX4 F model to a G model if you prefer and which I'm accustomed:watching:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I recommend that, if you are not sufficiently trained or well practiced to safely use a single-action-with-safety (SA) pistol, your best choice would be a double-action-only (DAO) gun.
(Although I call a Glock "DAO," it really isn't. To me, "DAO" really means a heavy trigger press, of at least 12 pounds.)

The reason for my recommendation is that I believe that most defensive shooters will be best served by a pistol, the trigger action of which is always exactly the same.

Most shooters do not practice their craft sufficiently to be able to safely _and accurately_ master the transition necessary to traditional-double-action (TDA or DA/SA) trigger action. And without consistent practice, the SA-with-safety trigger, too, will be likely to be unsafe.
To the less-practiced shooter, enduring consistency is an ally, and a "heavy" trigger will help prevent negligent discharges and other accidents.
Thus my recommendation is for a DAO trigger action.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

What's interesting, or more appropriately considered mis-information is referring to DA/SA pistols or the proper delineation "DA pistols" as being outdated or old technology when compared to striker fired pistols. Fact is, striker fired pistols had been around for about 25 years or so before the first DA/SA pistols hit the scene.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I recommend that, if you are not sufficiently trained or well practiced to safely use a single-action-with-safety (SA) pistol, your best choice would be a double-action-only (DAO) gun.
> (Although I call a Glock "DAO," it really isn't. To me, "DAO" really means a heavy trigger press, of at least 12 pounds.)
> 
> The reason for my recommendation is that I believe that most defensive shooters will be best served by a pistol, the trigger action of which is always exactly the same.
> ...


I hear ya, but I still think DA/SA is better. The average new shooter will be turned off completely by the 12 trigger pull you reference in your post. They are not going to stick with that. I wouldn't have.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I recommend that, if you are not sufficiently trained or well practiced to safely use a single-action-with-safety (SA) pistol, your best choice would be a double-action-only (DAO) gun.
> (Although I call a Glock "DAO," it really isn't. To me, "DAO" really means a heavy trigger press, of at least 12 pounds.)


The Glock is a true DAO. I once got in a bit of a disagreement with someone about this so I called Glock and spoke with a tech. He confirmed that Glock classed its pistols as DAO, as does the BATFE.

Action types always refer to what tasks the trigger performs. In the case of the Glock, it does two things. In its first stage, also called its pre-travel, it completes the cocking of the striker. In stage two, the cruciform contacts the connector which causes it to move downward, thus releasing the striker to move forward to fire a cartridge.

The M&P is a bit of a hybrid of sorts in that while there is pre-travel, nothing is being done to the striker during this process. The striker is held in a fully cocked condition and all the trigger does is rotate the sear, like a seesaw, to release the striker. So technically that design would be classed as a SAO trigger.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Post removed by author.


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## Donn (Jul 26, 2013)

Guess I'm a little slow on the uptake. If you've been carrying a Glock and are good with it, why consider changing to a different platform?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Shipwreck said:


> I hear ya, but I still think DA/SA is better. The average new shooter will be turned off completely by the 12 trigger pull you reference in your post. They are not going to stick with that. I wouldn't have.


Not to mention that some shooters wouldn't be able to pull the trigger more than three times.

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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Donn said:


> Guess I'm a little slow on the uptake. If you've been carrying a Glock and are good with it, why consider changing to a different platform?


Ahh, the 800 pound gorilla in the room. For some reason we are cursed (possessed?) with a seemingly endless attempt at finding that perfect gun... for whatever use to which we would put it. Alas, there is no such thing and in the end we are relegated to accepting that which we believe to the best, at the instant time.

But then a new design is introduced and it all begins anew. Cursed things... almost as if they have a mind of their own and are wont to say, "Buy me. Buy me now".


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> Not to mention that some shooters wouldn't be able to pull the trigger more than three times.


How, I wonder, did all those new cops ever learn to make hits with their DA revolvers?

It is a puzzlement.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> How, I wonder, did all those new cops ever learn to make hits with their DA revolvers?
> 
> It is a puzzlement.


Given your current medical issues, how much practice could you make it through with a 12lbs every shot trigger?

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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Good point!
But... (There's always a "but.")

...I am 78 years old, with two separate joint-pain issues. (Both are being controlled with medication, but they're still there.)
Until I was well into my 76th year, I was still able to operate my AMT .45 Backup, the trigger action of which is way off of my trigger-pull scale.
(My scale's calibration ends at 12 pounds.)
I gave up carrying it only because I was no longer comfortable with the recoil of a .45 ACP cartridge as produced by a tiny pistol.
_Its trigger wasn't the problem._

I suggest that someone without serious arthritis, and certainly without polymyalgia rheumatica, would have little trouble with a 12-pound trigger.

BTW: I am now no longer capable of operating that AMT .45 Backup for _two_ reasons.
Added to the problem that I can no longer control the tiny pistol's recoil, there is now an inability to actually press the trigger using only the first joint of my finger.
The little monster has a very, very long trigger press. I can no longer reach that far, with any remaining strength.

I am still quite capable of properly and accurately using Jean's Kel-Tec P-3AT.
I can handle the recoil of a .380, even in a tiny pistol, and its shorter-pull, 10-pound trigger is easy-peasy.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

My wife weighs in at about 100lbs even, she doesn't have the hand size / strength to work a heavy DAO for but a couple trigger presses. Give her a 5lbs Glock trigger and she's good for days.

It's real easy to say that "everyone should be able to do X" but it really isn't the case.



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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> ...It's real easy to say that "everyone should be able to do X" but it really isn't the case.


You're right.
I always object when someone else tells me that since he can do it, I should be able to do it too.
I don't like that kind of "should" any more than you do.

But this was the general case, not the specific.
I am not telling you that your wife, specifically, should be able to handle a 12-pound trigger.
I hold only that, _in the general case_, most people without serious medical issues should be capable of doing so.

BTW: Jean, well under five feet, weighs less than 100 pounds when she's fully dressed and soaking wet, yet she's fully capable of operating our S&W Bodyguard revolver in DA mode (with, maybe, a 14-pound trigger).
Certainly, she isn't happy with its snappy, twisty recoil, but she can use it.
Pretty well, too.
Instead of the Smith, she chose the P-3AT for herself, and she is completely comfortable and capable with it.

She learned to shoot using one of my full-size 1911s, using full-power .45 ACP cartridges from the very beginning.
She's still perfectly comfortable with it, too.


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## Indigowolf (Apr 9, 2015)

Personally I like the straight SA style... Carry cocked and locked, I feel this is the safest. IMHO...


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

To get back to the OP, I admit I am a bit puzzled by the wish to switch from a gun you can hit with and are comfortable with. I think a Glock is as safe as any handgun as long as you know what your doing. If you don't , no gun is safe. Anyway, I carry a G21 in Winter and a CZ 75 b, and P-01 in Summer. That's a "Safe Action Trigger" or DAO, a SA/Da, and a de-cocker.


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