# Do you carry at church?



## BigMatt

When you go to church and dont really have plans of going anywhere else (maybe lunch) do you carry?


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## Mike Barham

I'd vote no, but that would skew the results since I don't attend church. If I had some sudden change of opinion and somehow became religious, I'd carry in church without hesitation.


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## BeefyBeefo

Mike Barham said:


> I'd vote no, but that would skew the results since I don't attend church. If I had some sudden change of opinion and somehow became religious, I'd carry in church without hesitation.


Same here. :smt023 (If my permit had arrived by then)

-Jeff-


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## zhurdan

I voted "NO" for the following reason off the back of my permit...


PERMITEES ARE PROHIBITED FROM CARRYING A CONCEALED FIREARM INTO ANY:

#8- place where persons are assembled for public worship, without the written consent of the chief administrator of that place.

Previous priest wrote me a letter, stating I could carry. New priest wouldn't have it. No letter, no carry.


Zhur


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## TOF

My last visit was for a funeral and yes I was carrying.

When I dress after showering in the morning I include my Galco Summer Comfort for either my M&P40 or GP-100 (mood dependant). I insert whichever I have chosen into the holster within a few minutes of dressing.

About the only deviation from that practice is when something unusual occurs like changing oil in my truck or car which involves use of a creeper or similar activities that yield discomfort or damage if carrying. As soon as the task is over I re-arm.

I don't require a plan to leave my residence to arm myself.

I had to get that plug in there Mike given that you agreed with me once this week. Amazing :anim_lol: :smt082 :smt1099


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## niadhf

I don't go to church on sunday morning. so no
My church is the outdoors. So yes.
and at the last funeral? yes
last wedding, no. Why? I live in a tri-state area. my CPL for that state has not been approved yet.


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## funkypunk97

I don't go to an organized church... but if I did I would carry as places of worship have traditionally been a place where a-holes like to make a statement.....

Weren't two people recently killed at a church by some psycho, and a CCW person or security guard shot him? I seem to recall that in the news a few months ago....


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## James NM

I carry every where it is legal to do so.

If I knew _exactly_ when and where I would need my CCW, it would sure be more convenient. Then I would only have to carry it on those "special" occasions.


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## Mike Barham

James NM said:


> If I knew _exactly_ when and where I would need my CCW, it would sure be more convenient. Then I would only have to carry it on those "special" occasions.


And if I knew that, I'd just stay home with a shotgun handy.


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## BigMatt

Good variety of answers keep it coming


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## Bisley

I haven't attended church since I was a kid, but if I did, I would definitely be carrying, since it is one of those ideal targets for a coward who needs to take defenseless people with him on his way out of this world.


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## Ptarmigan

The only time I have been in church since I began to carry has been for weddings and I have carried at all of them.


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## Clyde

Yes -


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## BigMatt

more yes Votes then I thought.


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## hemmigremmie

Hell yes!

I took it out the other day and held it up to the preacher. I said " Preach about revelations or its golden gate time for you". 
Actually, No I dont take mine to church. LOL HG:anim_lol:


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## ghost stang

I carry most of the time when I go to church. The instructor that I got my CCW from has armed deacons at churches. He also informed me that a church is one of the top places that a terrorist might target. From what I know we have security but they dont carry. So if I can get a few of the BGs then more of the members will live.


So yeah I carry anywhere I can.


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## Wyatt

I didn't vote because I don't have a carry permit but, if it was lawful I would carry to church. My reasoning is simple, I've seen "Kill Bill II".


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## DevilsJohnson

I don't go to a church so I don't think I should vote. If I did attend I don't think I would though. I guess I'd just have to ....have faith that anything requiring a weapon wouldn't occur.


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## Todd

IMO, if law allows, there is valid argument for CCW in church. In addition to the guy in CO that killed two girls at the church who was then killed by the CCW holder we have: 
August 12, 2007: A lone gunman, Eiken Elam Saimon, opened fire in a Missouri Micronesian church, killing a pastor and two other churchgoers.
May 20, 2007: A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Moscow, Idaho, Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.
Although not at a church building, the Oct. 2, 2006, attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.
May 21, 2006: Louisiana. Four were killed by a man at Jesus Christ Church.
Feb. 26, 2006: Michigan. Two people were killed at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church by a man who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend. He later killed himself.
April 9, 2005: A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church in College Park, Ga., where he had once worked as a security guard.
March 12, 2005: A man walked into the services of the Living Church of God in Milwaukee and open fired immediately, killing seven people.
Oct. 5, 2003: A woman opened fire in Turner Monumental AME church in Kirkwood, east of Atlanta, killing the pastor and two others.
Sept. 16, 1999: Seven young people were killed when a man opened fire during a prayer service for teen-agers at the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas.
Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59219


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## BigMatt

DevilsJohnson said:


> I don't go to a church so I don't think I should vote. If I did attend I don't think I would though. I guess I'd just have to ....have faith that anything requiring a weapon wouldn't occur.


I like your thought process!


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## Mike Barham

> I guess I'd just have to ....have faith that anything requiring a weapon wouldn't occur.


Faith didn't do much for these poor folks:



Todd said:


> *August 12, 2007: A lone gunman, Eiken Elam Saimon, opened fire in a Missouri Micronesian church, killing a pastor and two other churchgoers.
> *May 20, 2007: A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Moscow, Idaho, Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.
> *Although not at a church building, the Oct. 2, 2006, attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.
> *May 21, 2006: Louisiana. Four were killed by a man at Jesus Christ Church.
> *Feb. 26, 2006: Michigan. Two people were killed at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church by a man who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend. He later killed himself.
> *April 9, 2005: A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church in College Park, Ga., where he had once worked as a security guard.
> *March 12, 2005: A man walked into the services of the Living Church of God in Milwaukee and open fired immediately, killing seven people.
> *Oct. 5, 2003: A woman opened fire in Turner Monumental AME church in Kirkwood, east of Atlanta, killing the pastor and two others.
> *Sept. 16, 1999: Seven young people were killed when a man opened fire during a prayer service for teen-agers at the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas


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## zhurdan

Mike Barham said:


> Faith didn't do much for these poor folks:


Nor does it really give any sort of realistic representation of gun violence. There are far more incidents of gun/any other type of violence than are reported or readily available for statistical posting on forums. It often times doesn't post that the gunman took their own life after the shooting and that the amount of people killed were a direct corrolation of one magazine/cylinder with the last round going thru the BG's own head. 2 killed, 4 killed... a result of missing with some, hitting others, then killing themselves with the remaining bullets. Sure there are some standoffs, but as _Mike _ likes to point out, (rightfully so) why aren't people fighting back? If he's gotta reload, rush 'em.

Making this about Faith is disingenuous. It's about people not fighting back, but rather running away rather than fighting. There is danger everywhere, regardless of the venue, people should prepare as best they can for bad joo joo to happen wherever they are.

Like I said before, I carried in church when I had authorization to do so, but I don't now because I'd be breaking the law. I can't see the point of breaking the law just because some other whacko is breaking the law. If we all did that, there'd be an example of the degredation of society we were looking for earlier.

I liken it to the shark attacks of a few years ago. There have always been shark attacks, but when the media becomes fixated on it, they sure seem to be happening every other day. If I recall correctly, the year they were all over the news, there were actually less shark attacks than the previous couple of years.

The point is, once the media gets their meat hooks into a story, you'll hear about it more and more. I bet there were many shootings in those same communities that never made anything more than the local paper. It's a relatively rare and very tragic thing to happen in a church, so it goes to the front of the line on the "Oh-how-sad-O-meter".

Zhur


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## Mike Barham

*Zhurdan*, I agree with most of what you've written (as usual), but I was mainly pointing out that just being in a church offers no real protection from violence. The reason we carry our guns with us is because we don't know in advance when and where we might need a pistol. It might be the supermarket, a parking lot, the bank, our job, at home, in church, whatever. We don't have any control over that, and just based on Todd's list, apparently neither does some deity.

I fully understand and support the fact that you don't carry in church because it's illegal. That is a perfectly appropriate reason not to carry. Were I religious, I suspect I would not change churches merely because I couldn't carry, just like I continue to go to alcohol-serving restaurants here in AZ even though I can't carry in them.

The media blows _everything_ out of proportion, including crime, whether it's church-related or not.


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## James NM

Mike Barham said:


> ...The reason we carry our guns with us is because we don't know in advance when and where we might need a pistol...


Yea, if I knew that, I'd "just stay home with a shotgun handy".


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## mikej997

Todd said:


> August 12, 2007: A lone gunman, Eiken Elam Saimon, opened fire in a Missouri Micronesian church, killing a pastor and two other churchgoers.
> May 20, 2007: A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Moscow, Idaho, Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.
> Although not at a church building, the Oct. 2, 2006, attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.
> May 21, 2006: Louisiana. Four were killed by a man at Jesus Christ Church.
> Feb. 26, 2006: Michigan. Two people were killed at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church by a man who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend. He later killed himself.
> April 9, 2005: A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church in College Park, Ga., where he had once worked as a security guard.
> March 12, 2005: A man walked into the services of the Living Church of God in Milwaukee and open fired immediately, killing seven people.
> Oct. 5, 2003: A woman opened fire in Turner Monumental AME church in Kirkwood, east of Atlanta, killing the pastor and two others.
> Sept. 16, 1999: Seven young people were killed when a man opened fire during a prayer service for teen-agers at the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas.
> Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59219


These are some of the instances that helped me decide to carry at church. I understand the media's fixation on these type of events, like plane crashes, but it just shows that no place is safe. I carry anywhere I legally can, but church is a little bit different and made me think about it. My wife also has her CCW permit but she doesn't carry to church and doesn't like me carrying to church either. You know everyone at church (especially our small one) and if one person "made" you, everyone would know. I'm sure there would be a few who would be upset. There would also be some who either didn't care or supported it. It will be the ones who are upset making the noise though. When I carry at church I am even more careful about concealment than when I am out in public, say at a store or something. I don't find myself being as concerned if a stranger spotted me carrying, although I am always careful about it. I figure that after a stranger spots me, even if they call police, once its sorted out I probably won't have to deal with that person again. Not the story at church and I guess that is what makes me be REALLY careful about concealment there.


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## Todd

mikej997 said:


> These are some of the instances that helped me decide to carry at church. I understand the media's fixation on these type of events, like plane crashes, but it just shows that no place is safe. I carry anywhere I legally can, but church is a little bit different and made me think about it. My wife also has her CCW permit but she doesn't carry to church and doesn't like me carrying to church either. You know everyone at church (especially our small one) and if one person "made" you, everyone would know. I'm sure there would be a few who would be upset. There would also be some who either didn't care or supported it. It will be the ones who are upset making the noise though. When I carry at church I am even more careful about concealment than when I am out in public, say at a store or something. I don't find myself being as concerned if a stranger spotted me carrying, although I am always careful about it. I figure that after a stranger spots me, even if they call police, once its sorted out I probably won't have to deal with that person again. Not the story at church and I guess that is what makes me be REALLY careful about concealment there.


IMO, one of the biggest "threats" of being made at church is the fact that people like to hug. I'd say practice hugging you wife so that you arms are on the bottom and you're covering your gun with your arm (assuming you carry around 3:00). This may also be a great place for off-body carry. Maybe in one of the big Bible briefcase/covers?


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## Old Padawan

When hugging, hug low with you gun hand. The huggie will generally hug high when you hug low.


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## Wyatt

Todd said:


> IMO, one of the biggest "threats" of being made at church is the fact that people like to hug. I'd say practice hugging you wife so that you arms are on the bottom and you're covering your gun with your arm (assuming you carry around 3:00). This may also be a great place for off-body carry. Maybe in one of the big Bible briefcase/covers?





Old Padawan said:


> When hugging, hug low with you gun hand. The huggie will generally hug high when you hug low.


:anim_lol::anim_lol:

Sorry, just struck me funny.


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## James NM

Come on guys, this is a gun board!

Enough with the hugging already.

What's next, sunshine and lollipops?:smt082


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## zhurdan

Old Padawan said:


> When hugging, hug low with you gun hand. The huggie will generally hug high when you hug low.


So is that called a "TACTICAL HUG"?? :anim_lol: and at what point do you throw the flash bang?

Zhur


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## mikej997

zhurdan said:


> So is that called a "TACTICAL HUG"?? :anim_lol: and at what point do you throw the flash bang?
> 
> Zhur


:smt082:smt046:anim_lol::smt082

Thats funny!!!

Sad part is, its true. I had to learn that move quick so nobody would feel it on me. Flash bang... LOL:mrgreen:


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## mikej997

James NM said:


> Come on guys, this is a gun board!
> 
> Enough with the hugging already.
> 
> What's next, sunshine and lollipops?:smt082


Sunshine and lollipops!!! LOL

We are talking about carrying at church and hugging is one of the "dangers". It's critical that you learn Zhur's "tactical hug" :smt082 to avoid being made! You don't want to be caught by one of the old ladies of the church! :mrgreen:


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## Dynamik1

When talking to my wife about concealed carry I mentioned church and Jeanne Assam, the concealed carrier who countered a gunman's attack in Denver last year. My wife, sarcastically said "is that who you want to be?" I replied with dead earnest - "Abso-friggin-lutely. I pray that if I am ever in such a situation God will give me the wherewithall to respond in kind". 

I, too, feel vulnerable in church. Perhaps its because we all sit with our backs to the door or because of the presence evil in the world. 

As for folks who have mentioned they havent been to church since they were children - try it again, you may find it a completely different place as an adult. I was a typical Prodigal Son who turned away as soon as I could because it all felt so phony, contrived and filled with hypocrisy. Since returning to church I have found a much different place - the Methodists have a slogan that says "Open hears, Open Minds, Open Doors" - that's a position I can support.


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## James NM

Dynamik1 said:


> ... Open Minds ..


There's the problem for most liberals.


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## revolvers&w

Amen!!


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## Dynamik1

James NM said:


> There's the problem for most liberals.


Not sure I follow James . . . you mean "close-minded" is actually BETTER?


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## zhurdan

Dynamik1 said:


> I replied with dead earnest - "Abso-friggin-lutely. I pray that if I am ever in such a situation God will give me the wherewithall to respond in kind".


I pray that I'm NEVER in such a situation. One scary-scary time is enough for me.

Zhur


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## James NM

Dynamik1 said:


> Not sure I follow James . . . you mean "close-minded" is actually BETTER?


Liberals seem to "think" so.......No, let me rephrase that........Liberals seem to "feel" so.


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## vernpriest

I am a church Board member and in charge of our church security. Our team includes several armed individuals. Our church pays for some of our training. We have a very securty minded Pastor, oh yeah were just outside Detroit too!


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## jadog

I carry in church. I can't imagine the feeling of dread I would have if the one time I needed it, I didn't have it because I thought I or my family was "safe" because of the fact we were in church.


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## zhurdan

vernpriest said:


> I am a church Board member and in charge of our church security. Our team includes several armed individuals. Our church pays for some of our training. We have a very securty minded Pastor, oh yeah were just outside Detroit too!


You and your team don't happen to moonlight at one of America's biggest Malls do you? :mrgreen:

jk

Zhur


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## ORYGUN

*at church*

I carry everywhere that is legal...


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## Atroxus

I don't carry at church because I don't attend, so I voted no. I also don't carry most other times either though because my employer does not allow weapons on company property. :smt076 So if I really wanted to carry on work days I would have to park off-site, and leave my gun in my car. Leaving a gun unattended in a car for 8+ hours seems like a bad idea to me. I also walk with a cane due to a motorcycle accident beginning of this year so parking off-site isn't all that appealing either. I have been tempted to see if there is any way I could get around this rule, but I have a feeling that since it is private property that there is nothing I can do about it without risking my job. :smt022


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## kg333

Atroxus said:


> I don't carry at church because I don't attend, so I voted no. I also don't carry most other times either though because my employer does not allow weapons on company property. :smt076 So if I really wanted to carry on work days I would have to park off-site, and leave my gun in my car. Leaving a gun unattended in a car for 8+ hours seems like a bad idea to me. I also walk with a cane due to a motorcycle accident beginning of this year so parking off-site isn't all that appealing either. I have been tempted to see if there is any way I could get around this rule, but I have a feeling that since it is private property that there is nothing I can do about it without risking my job. :smt022


Check your state laws on that one. I know that in Kentucky, employers are prohibited from preventing an employee leaving their weapon in their car, although they can keep you from carrying.

KG


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## jb1023

Even though I don't have my permit yet I voted yes because I have applied for the permit and plan to carry once I have it. Not sure what my church's position is but they don't post that there is no carry allowed so I guess I will be OK.


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## RotorHead

Yes I do. Matter of fact I just got in from the Wednesday night service. I and several of the guys (and a few of the ladies) that go there carry at church, and any place its legal. I can think of no scripture that would forbid it.


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## kg333

zhurdan said:


> So is that called a "TACTICAL HUG"?? :anim_lol: and at what point do you throw the flash bang?
> 
> Zhur


Behold! A detailed article on carrying in church, and step by step instructions on the proper way to hug:
http://www.corneredcat.com/Social/church.aspx
:anim_lol: :smt082

No instructions for the flash, though... :mrgreen:

KG


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## twodogs

The media blows _everything_ out of proportion, including crime, whether it's church-related or not.[/QUOTE]

so true!

I don't have my permit yet, but I doubt I will carry to church.


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## jpshark

*Yes*

I voted yes although if memory serves I believe this is prohibited in some states ...

:smt071


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## tropicmaster

The first few months after obtaining our CCW's we did not carry into the church, but would leave our handguns in the car for after church shopping,lunch,etc. After the California incident my wife asked me how bad would I feel if something like that happened here, and my handgun was in the car. We live in a very small town, and go to an even smaller church, so the odds of that are extreme to say the least. However her point is valid so I now carry.

Interesting side note- after moving here we visited several of the local churches looking for our new church home. We pretty much fell in love with one and had decided to make it our new church. However after doing a little research I discovered that the national body of that church actively (financially) supports the anti firearm movement. Even though the local church did not agree with that position they do send money up to the national body, so we chose not to join that church.

This was a pretty popular " mainstream" denomination, so you might want to investigate where your churches money goes.


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## SargeTN

tropicmaster said:


> The first few months after obtaining our CCW's we did not carry into the church, but would leave our handguns in the car for after church shopping,lunch,etc. After the California incident my wife asked me how bad would I feel if something like that happened here, and my handgun was in the car. We live in a very small town, and go to an even smaller church, so the odds of that are extreme to say the least. However her point is valid so I now carry.
> 
> Interesting side note- after moving here we visited several of the local churches looking for our new church home. We pretty much fell in love with one and had decided to make it our new church. However after doing a little research I discovered that the national body of that church actively (financially) supports the anti firearm movement. Even though the local church did not agree with that position they do send money up to the national body, so we chose not to join that church.
> 
> This was a pretty popular " mainstream" denomination, so you might want to investigate where your churches money goes.


Guess I am gonna have to look in a little closer. I'm glad you brought that up. Like I said in another thread if I'm in uniform, I carry all the time unless actually on post. In my reserve unit though that rarely happens cause we're so far away from the nearest military installation. In civilian clothes I would if I had my CCW (which hopefully will be happening soon)


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## scpankow

I live in Texas and it is against the law here to carry in church:smt091, which I think is ridiculous! I carry everywhere I am allowed and I feel that church, along with my place of work, are the two most important places that I should be carrying. I mean, this is Texas! Nobody at the church would care! They would probably be ok with Open Carry!:draw:


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## Bisley

scpankow said:


> I live in Texas and it is against the law here to carry in church:smt091, which I think is ridiculous! I carry everywhere I am allowed and I feel that church, along with my place of work, are the two most important places that I should be carrying. I mean, this is Texas! Nobody at the church would care! They would probably be ok with Open Carry!:draw:


Read the entire law. It is one of those hazy, figure it out for yourself type laws that can be found all through the Texas laws. If you continue reading the entire section, you will discover that you are only forbidden to carry in church, if the person in authority has told you not to, or if the 30.06 sign is posted..

Ridiculous, and ambiguous, true, but most folks don't let it prevent them from carrying. You be the judge.


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## ScottChapin

It's illegal in Georgia, though they keep trying to change that.


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## cougartex

Bisley said:


> Read the entire law. It is one of those hazy, figure it out for yourself type laws that can be found all through the Texas laws. If you continue reading the entire section, you will discover that you are only forbidden to carry in church, if the person in authority has told you not to, or if the 30.06 sign is posted..
> 
> Ridiculous, and ambiguous, true, but most folks don't let it prevent them from carrying. You be the judge.


Texas Law

PC §46.035.

UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Read on down to (i) where it states they have to be posted 30.06.

*(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.*

:smt1099


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## sig225

No ... and if I have it with me, it stays in the car ... rayer:


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## Hollander

I would like to but as mentioned above, it is not legal in Georgia. I am not sure if the leadership would allow it anyway but it makes me feel naked, especially with my back to the entrance of the sanctuary.


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## ghettogunfighter

Interesting topic, I never did in all my years as a LEO. However, in Richmond CA, maybe a year ago a several people were gunned down in a church while attending a funeral. Grant it, the funeral was not for a law abiding citizen, but none the less it was in a church. So to answer the question, I do now.


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## sixguncowboy

For several years it was illegal to carry in church in Texas. But due to church shootings the law was changed. It is now legal to carry in church unless it is properly posted. At our church we have an average attendance of about 300 people and there are at least 6 or 7 people in attendance every Sunday that are armed that I know of. There are probably a few more that are & a few more that have a gun in their car. I am armed anytime I am away from my home.


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## danite

*mom says*

my mother used to say"god helps those that help themselves",it's not scripture,but a proactive approach seems practical.i can't fault my mother's less than fatalistic view of life.she carried,and so do i.


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## Brevard13

I do most of the time. My wife and I at our old church had a bunch of law enforcement that attended. My friend that works for the Sheriff and is a deacon always has at least one on him when not in uniform. He told me when I was getting ready to take the class to make sure I carried in church. Of course all the stories on the news about gunmen all over the country going on sahooting sprees and stuff is what made him tell me.

I had a guy tell me it was disrespectful to God to bring it into his house. He wasn't to fond of the passage in the Bible I showed him where it says to take up arms and stuff like that.


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## Brevard13

On another note. I go to church to hear God's word preached. Sometimes for fellowship. I will not go anywhere that my gun cannot go. If that is church well I'm sorry. I will listen to sermons online or watch them on tv. 

Just like I won't apend money anywhere I can't take my gun. A resturant my wife and I love started serving alcohol. Welp no more carrying. My wife decided that we should order take out and go back to the house. But I refuse. I'm not going to support any establishment that restricts me in anyway.


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## Bisley

Brevard13 said:


> I'm not going to support any establishment that restricts me in anyway.


:smt1099 I agree. Fortunately, there are practically no such businesses in the area I live. The only legal 'no guns' sign I have ever seen was at a gun show.


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## sixguncowboy

Brevard13 said:


> Just like I won't apend money anywhere I can't take my gun. A resturant my wife and I love started serving alcohol. Welp no more carrying. My wife decided that we should order take out and go back to the house. But I refuse. I'm not going to support any establishment that restricts me in anyway.


Sir, I see you're located in NC. You need to get folks in your state to start writing and callin your state legislators to change the law. In Texas you can carry into restaurants that serve alcohol unless they derive more than 51% of their profit from the on premise consumption of alcoholic beverages & they must legally post it on the door(s) with a big red *51*. And that means mostly bars & night clubs. Change your law to copy Texas.


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## Surculus Solitudo

I am an elder in my church and carry there. I feel a responsibility to protect the congregation from some nut. I know it is unlikely but it is possible. My pastor permits me to carry and he carrys a pistol in his briefcase at all times. He is also a police chaplin and works with the courts also. There is one other person who carrys in chruch that I know of. There are likely others. As a Christian, I am permitted to defend myself and other innocent lives if need be.


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## Brevard13

Not to turn this into a religion thread but I think how you were raised and the type of church you go to makes a big difference. My old church they still felt women should be in long dresses and men should be in a shirt and tie with dress pants. I know during the summer I wore shorts. They were long they come below my knees thought not ridiculous gangsta type. They didn't like it. When I had it on I sat in the very back. And made it a point not to try to offend some. 

The place my wife and I started going. The pastor is cool. He has preached in jeans and a tee shirt. Also used Evan Almighty video for part of his service. But his thinking is that you should come period. If being comfortable requires you to be in sandals shorts and a sleeveless t shirt then get dressed and come. And I mean tastefully. No bikinis, low low cut tank tops, and no short short shorts.

I know for a fact if I told him right now I can't come unless I have my pistol on me he will ask me why I don't have it and to make sure I bring it. But you are also talking about a guy who brought everyone biscuits and a drink to eat while he was preaching. Of course there are only around 40 or so there. But it is the coolest church I have been too.

On a side note to the people who say they leave their's in their car. I know awhile back we took turns patrolling the parking lot because several churches had several cars broke into dring the services.


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## Brevard13

Double post....sorry


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## Illusive Man

I'm an assistant pastor at my church and am armed every Sunday. I'm also armed at Bible studies (they are held at night). Criminals don't respect God's house and never expect anyone in church to be armed, so I'm just as at risk on Sunday morning as I am any other time.


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## USAFgsm

I always carry in church. I carry the P3AT in the pocket of my slacks. Somebody would have to have their hand in my pocket to even know it's there. Thats one of the few times the little .380 is my only gun. I did carry the Glock at 3 o'clock to a family member's funeral last month, since I was wearing a suit. I did get caught with one of those hugs by my cousin, but i'm pretty sure she was looking to make sure I had it


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## hk45ctp30

I always carry at church, which usually runs about 400-500 on Sundays. The pastor knows I carry, along with a State Police Officer who also carries. There is one woman who I have known for the last 45 years or so that always hugs me. She has felt the HK on my hip many times. Doesn't phase her at all. Of course, I'm a retired LEO so I can carry there anyway. If I were told I could not carry there, I would find another church that was more carry friendly.


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## rumaco

*Yup!*

Never go to any organized religion. 3275 of them and none get it right. I CARRY EVERWHERE!!! Religion, what an absxolute croke of crap-!!!!!!!! Yup I am a Vietnam Vet....would you ever emagine?


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## OldCurlyWolf

My church convenes where I happen to be standing, sitting, etc..

It has a membership of 1, no invitations are being offered.

No tithes, no building, no utilities and no preacher.


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## cwl1862

Catholic church sez no guns allowed, and churches are recognized as "Gun Free Zones" (Criminal Empowerment Zones) in Michigan. So I don't go to church........If my sidearm isn't welcome then neither am I. I don't need a church to worship God anyway. Same goes for any business that forbids carrying of firearms. If my firearm isn't welcome then neither is my money.


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## sixguncowboy

cwl1862 said:


> Catholic church sez no guns allowed, and churches are recognized as "Gun Free Zones" (Criminal Empowerment Zones) in Michigan. So I don't go to church........If my sidearm isn't welcome then neither am I. I don't need a church to worship God anyway. Same goes for any business that forbids carrying of firearms. If my firearm isn't welcome then neither is my money.


Is this just a local parish ban or a diocease ban by the bishop or a papal decree? It is more than likely a ban by the local parish priest.

In Texas a church like any other business must post each entrance with a sign in which the font size and wording prescibed by law in both English & Spanish in order to ban anyone with a concealed handgun license from carrying in church. I've been in all of the Cathloic churches in the city and most of the protestant (as a funeral director) & only one church has posted the proper signage and it's a Baptist church.

Don't say the Catholic church has banned guns as an excuse to try to justify to yourself your inattendance at Mass.


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## cwl1862

Not using anything as an excuse. Please note I'm in Michigan & Texas law does not apply here. I also don't go to mass as I disagree with more than the churches doccumented anti-gun position, research the churches position on firearms. http://www.uscatholic.org/news/2011/01/gun-control-church-firmly-quietly-opposes-firearms-civilians According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, and someone who "defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow."
Yet the church would deny you the most effective means of doing just that.....seems a little hypocrital if you ask me.
As stated previously I don't need a church, building, preacher/priest or organized religion to follow and worship Christ & God.


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## sixguncowboy

I didn't mean to imply that Tx law was applicable in Mi. Just using it as an example. Some states ban the posession of a firearm in church as did Tx. until the legislature wised up to all the shootings & murders in churches across the nation in the past few years. There are 4 Catholic parishes in the city in which I live and none of them are posted as required by law if they don't want parishoners carrying into the building. so if it was a papal decree all of them would be posted.


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## Rickfrl

i attend church regularly, in fact i am an Asst. Missouri State Coordinator for a christian Motorcycle ministry, and i carry everywhere i go. Jesus himself told his disciples that if they did not have sword, that they should sell their cloak and buy one. That is good enough for me.


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## Prin_C

Yes I do carry at church, along with two other ccw holders. We have the entrances and exits covered by the way we sit. When most worshippers have their eyes closed, ours are opened and scanning the area. I am sorry for the idiot with bad intentions.


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## agill

*Confused with Bible quote*



Rickfrl said:


> i attend church regularly, in fact i am an Asst. Missouri State Coordinator for a christian Motorcycle ministry, and i carry everywhere i go. Jesus himself told his disciples that if they did not have sword, that they should sell their cloak and buy one. That is good enough for me.


As to CCW in church it is a no brainer, but concealed and qualified should be the rule of thumb. I am no Bible scholar but a search for "cloak" only reveals Jesus saying to give it up? I am curious of where "Jesus told his disciples to buy one"?


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## sixguncowboy

agill said:


> As to CCW in church it is a no brainer, but concealed and qualified should be the rule of thumb. I am no Bible scholar but a search for "cloak" only reveals Jesus saying to give it up? I am curious of where "Jesus told his disciples to buy one"?


Luke 22:36,

He (Jesus at the last supper) said to them, "but now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." NIV.

Since 1999 there have been 174 people murdered while at church or on church related property. Annually over 800,000 children are sexually assaulted, many while at church.

As the shepherd had a responibility to guard and protect his flock, we have a bilically mandated duty to guard our flock today and that means to be ever vigilent and have our sword (gun) at all times. David had a sling to protect his flock (the people of Israel) from the lions & ravenous wolves (Goliath & the Philistines) and today we have our guns to protect our congregations from those who would commit murder & mayhem within our walls.

See www.copandcross.com for more info.


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## sixguncowboy

oops


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## rgrundy

Many of us carry to church. The pastor carries too. Our church passes out Bibles at the mosque and it is an activity that carries with it a certain element of danger. The pastor talked about carrying one day because I guess some of the congregation questioned it. He said self defense is provided for in the Bible by God. Besides many of the disciples carried the finest weaponry available at the time. Simon the Zealot (the Zealots were active revolutionaries) and Peter for sure (he cut the soldier's ear off in the garden when they seized Jesus). If Jesus had no problem with people carrying weapons for self defense why should we?


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## jakeleinen1

I'd ESPECIALLY carry during church, not that I go to church but with all the religious fanatics out there, couldn't hurt

Im even scared of fundamentalists christians these days


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## sixguncowboy

jakeleinen1 said:


> Im even scared of fundamentalists christians these days


Why would you be afraid of fundamentalist Christians. They are only people who believe the Bible is the word of God and try their best to live by it. Appears you have been listening too much to Janet Napalitano.


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## rgrundy

jakeleinen1 said:


> I'd ESPECIALLY carry during church, not that I go to church but with all the religious fanatics out there, couldn't hurt
> 
> Im even scared of fundamentalists christians these days


That's the problem when we get educated by the media. Our opinions are based on the "truths" we are told. There are very few religious fanatics out there but they get lots more air time on TV than they deserve.


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## Vintage Racer

Not me. Georgia law makes it illegal. I am sure that I'd never need it in church.



> Carrying Weapons in an Unauthorized Location:
> In a place of worship.
> Georgia Code 16-11-127


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## ozzy

illusive man said:


> i'm an assistant pastor at my church and am armed every sunday. I'm also armed at bible studies (they are held at night). Criminals don't respect god's house and never expect anyone in church to be armed, so i'm just as at risk on sunday morning as i am any other time.


 amen !


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## sixguncowboy

Vintage Racer said:


> Not me. I am sure that I'd never need it in church.


What makes you so sure? Are you aware that in 2012 there were 29 murders either in churches or on church property? Perhaps Georgia should change their law as Texas did in '07. Churches here must post signs at every entrance if they don't want people to carry. I live in a city of 150,000 and there is only one church that has the required signage.

Our church has gone so far as to amend the church bylaws so that CH Licensees are welcome to carry.


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## grey-wolf

Church policy is no guns but if it changed I would. Just because you are in a church it dosent mean you are safe. You have wackos every where. God may not like you shooting someone in his house but i dont want to see him any earlier than I have to. Amen.


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## sixguncowboy

grey-wolf said:


> Church policy is no guns but if it changed I would. Just because you are in a church it dosent mean you are safe. You have wackos every where. God may not like you shooting someone in his house but i dont want to see him any earlier than I have to. Amen.


You know I don't think the Lord wants His people shot up in His house by some derranged individual. I also think He gave us enough common sense to defend and protect His people. Grey Wolf have your pastor and church leaders go to the following website and read the info found there specially the Church Crime history. Ministry Violence Statistics 
If that doesn't wake them up they have their heads buried deep in the sand. Perhaps you should seek a new place to worship or a new pastor.

Most of those incidents could have been prevented by armed parishoners.


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## berettatoter

I do most of the time, but at times my attire does not make it a possibility due to my carry options are not small pistols.


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## sixguncowboy

berettatoter said:


> I do most of the time, but at times my attire does not make it a possibility due to my carry options are not small pistols.


I have several guns that I carry, depending on my dress, from a Kimber Solo 9mm to a Kimber Ultra CDP 45acp, a Colt Det Spl 38 to a Springfield EMP 9mm. I use a Versa-Carry holster ( Versacarry :: The Original ZeroBulk Holster ) when I'm wearing just a sport or T shirt. If I'm wearing a jacket I usually use a regular type holster. There are many modes of dress and many small pistols that pack sufficient wallop with the right ammo that are more than adequate for self defence. I prefer the Hornady Critical Defence in the smaller ( .380, 9mm 38 spl) calibers and the Critical Duty ammo in the larger calibers. I even carry a NAA 22mag Mini revolver as a backup on the rare occasion.


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## MisterG

I go to Mass every week and my Glock 19 is with me every time. I see no difference in carrying there or at Walmart. As far as guns not being allowed in the Catholic church, my home parish here in Tennessee is not posted so I'll carry. I've been to several other parishes in Tennessee as well as Kentucky and they weren't posted either. I also never forget to pray to God that I never have to use my weapon, but if I do,that he will help me shoot straight and accurate.......


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## Philco

If it's legal, I'm packin and here it's legal. My church usually has an offering of a few thousand dollars each Sunday and a good bit of that is cash money. That would make a tempting target for an armed robber. In addition, as others here have already mentioned, churches are not immune from violence. 
Better to have it and not need it than to need it an not have it.


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## pic

when they don't put enough money in the basket, I usually just give a little flash of my gun very discreetly and they go back into their pockets for more donation money. It does not always work sometimes they flash back their own carry piece and I move on ... *bad humor*.:smt021


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## Charliefox

I carry during any and all church activities. There are a lot of us in that category, but we keep it fairly discreet. Heck, even one of our Pastors carries! Our church and demonination has no policy or opinion on the matter; they leave it up to the local congregation and laws.


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## XD40inAVL

A friend belongs to a church that even offered to hold CCW classes for members, and he suspect that there are a number that carry to church routinely.


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## BlueKnight

When I was just a kid my Grandfather told me a story about his father who always carried a pistol with him to church. Great GrandPa had been a real [email protected] back in his day but after getting married he settled down and became a respected business owner somewhere in Arkansas. There had been a couple attempted robberies of his store in the past and he had shot and killed the perps on both cases. One day Great GrandMa had talked him into leaving the pistol at home when they went to church. Bad idea, coming out of church at he end of services he was spotted by two men who were related to one of his robbers. They attempted to knife him there in front of his family. Great GrandPa tore off one of the iron fence posts from the church fence and beat the hell out of both of them. He would have killed both of them but the preacher stopped him. My Grand Pa said his father always carried after that incident. I follow in his footsteps too.


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## Ricky59

Yes.. 
Every flock needs a few sheep dogs ..


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## Jonny_Cannon

Hey why not? Then if there are any issues you can send people to meet Jesus express.

Cannon


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## Stoy

Mike Barham said:


> I'd carry in church without hesitation.


 Absolutely, Stoy


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## crob1

Always. The hugs are stressful though. :mrgreen:


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## dgwatson45

I carry only when I need to protect my family.


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## PT111Pro

dgwatson45 said:


> I carry only when I need to protect my family.


When is that? Do you wait for hand written threats or the Marsians declare war on Tanzania? What is the criteria for feel threatened and how do you know there will be a threat before the thread happen?


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## PT111Pro

Church is not the place that I don't carry.


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## shootbrownelk

Always, I don't trust the guys with the collection plates, and that priest is kinda shifty lookin'.


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## VAMarine

dgwatson45 said:


> I carry only when I need to protect my family.





PT111Pro said:


> When is that? Do you wait for hand written threats or the Marsians declare war on Tanzania? What is the criteria for feel threatened and how do you know there will be a threat before the thread happen?


Funny, I read that as "I always carry"


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## PT111Pro

> Funny, I read that as "I always carry"


Language-barriers?


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## RK3369

No, it's illegal in SC unless you have the permission of the pastor or the church governing body.


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## Tanshanomi

I've been friends with my pastor and most of our church board for 15-20 years; I've even I've been out shooting with a few of them. I am sure I could get the permission needed to satisfy state law pretty easily, but I don't really feel the need to. Perhaps this is because I know how many of the others _are_ packing on Sunday morning. :yawinkle:


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## BigCityChief

Yes.


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## berettatoter

Carried my PT738 with me this morning. Not much firepower, but better than my fist. :smt033


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## Goldwing

Do Mosques count?
GW


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## Aheadshot

Nope!!!!


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## TurboHonda

dgwatson45 said:


> I carry only when I need to protect my family.


Good answer. I'm like you. I only wear a seatbelt when an accident is possible.


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## TurboHonda

Also, ask Dr. George Tiller about ...uh, excuse me. Ask Dr. George Tiller's family about carrying in church.


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## DirtyDog

"Getting dressed" includes things like putting my wallet in my pocket. It also includes putting a gun in a holster. Why on earth would the sign on the front of the building affect this?


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## hud35500

I carried at my own wedding!!


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## muckaleewarrior

I did last Sunday but I kept thinking someone would feel it when we hugged but they didn't. I still may consider an ankle holster for church down the line.


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## sixguncowboy

XD40inAVL said:


> A friend belongs to a church that even offered to hold CCW classes for members, and he suspect that there are a number that carry to church routinely.


Our church is holding a CHL class in April. I hope it's well attended. If it is , we'll do it again.


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## Gabby

muckaleewarrior said:


> I did last Sunday but I kept thinking someone would feel it when we hugged but they didn't. I still may consider an ankle holster for church down the line.


Simply hug one armed with your carry arm deflecting anyone from feeling your weapon. Most of the hugs are peremptory anyway more of a symbol than a real hug. another way is to make sure your carry arm goes in under the hugee's arm they won't be able to feel it then either. Practice on your significant other you'll see what I mean.
Gabby


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## Wagon Master

If I'm not in the shower or in my bed sleeping, I'm carrying a firearm of some kind. In fact, I'm technically carrying while I'm in bed sleeping too, because there's always a firearm within arms reach. If I was to attend church, yes...yes I would be carrying. 

As the old saying goes... It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.


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## bluedog46

Yes I do concealed. 

I often thought churches would be a place some might hit, especially a terrorist attack on us soil. Also after the nazi shot those people in charleston I figured even houses of worship are not safe.


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## grade6man

Houses of Worship are easy targets so yes I carry in church. God can protect anyone but He might use you or me to protect a whole bunch of people. Just my thoughts. Grade6man


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