# DA/SA format is making a comeback



## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Why Are Some Shooters Switching Back To Double-Action Autos? ? Bearing Arms

:smt165


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Pepsi or Coke.........


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Cait43 said:


> Pepsi or Coke.........


No thanks. Half ice tea and half lemonade.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

This is mere "find a reason to write an article" bull puckey.
The supposed safety issues mentioned in it are all "straw men."

Yeah, OK, the long double-action (DA) trigger pull is a useful safety device, in a self-defense pistol carried by someone who doesn't practice much.
But that still doesn't make the traditional double-action (TDA) trigger, with its forced transition from DA to single-action (SA) at the second shot, the one better, safer choice.

What about double-action only (DAO)?

That self-defense shooter who doesn't practice much will not be helped by the DA-to-SA transition. Why present his less-practiced trigger finger with a horse change in mid-stream? A less-practiced shooter needs all the consistency and simplicity he can get.
That's where the DAO trigger comes in. It's the same every time, shot after shot. Simple. Consistent.

And the DAO trigger does not necessarily imply striker-fired, either. (For some reason, striker-fired pistols are the bad guys, this week.)
There are DAO pistols which actually have hammers, and also there are DAO pistols which do not "pre-tension" their strikers. (Although I see no real problem with either pre-tensioning or strikers.)

My last thought in this matter is that if there's a safety issue with a self-defense shooter's SA pistol, that safety issue will still be there, even if he were to use some other trigger action.
Premature trigger pulls, premature safety-lever release, whatever: Those problems will still be a problem, if the shooter is not schooled in safety, and hasn't practiced safe gun handling.
There is no trigger action which will change a fool into a safe, careful shooter.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

It's a conspiracy. Gun manufacturers are perpetuating the myth that the guns of a hundred years ago weren't good enough, and have to be replaced with 'new' ones that work exactly the same way. :mrgreen:


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> men."
> 
> Yeah, OK, the long double-action (DA) trigger pull is a useful safety device, in a self-defense pistol carried by someone who doesn't practice much.
> But that still doesn't make the traditional double-action (TDA) trigger, with its forced transition from DA to single-action (SA) at the second shot, the one better, safer choice.


Sorry - I disagree with ya. Almost all my handguns are DA/SA. Only a tiny, pocket Ruger LCP (there are no tiny 380 pocket guns in DA/SA, unfortunately) and an HK VP9 are not. And, the VP9 is only a range toy for me - I will never use the VP9 for self defense because it is NOT DA/SA.

I won't carry anything but DA/SA guns now.

I will admit that I didn't like DA/SA when I was younger, and I never bothered to practice shooting in DA on DA/SA guns I did have at the time. But, after a near robbery that I managed to get out of several years ago - I saw what it is like when the adrenaline kicks in. I kept my wits and got out of the situation without pulling a gun, but your whole thought process changes. You can sit and say what you WOULD do all day long in a given situation - but wait until you are actually in it and see...

Plus, you can talk safety all day long (as an excuse for pushing something else besides DA/SA) - and say that shooter safety training should suffice.... But people make mistakes all day long. All day long, every day, all year....

Look at how many car accidents there are in a day - those are multi ton vehicles that could really do more damage than a gun ever could. People make mistakes because we're people. True - a gun is more life threatening in a mistake than most other mistakes - but, mistakes can and will happen. To simply ride on the old argument that "the real safety is between the ears" that I see CONSTANTLY posted on all the gun forums in order to deride anyone's excuse for not wanting a Glock... That is a cop out IMHO.

I am actually older and wiser now. And, after that near robbery experience, I started to only carry DA/SA. I want that longer 1st shot to keep me from doing anything dumb, or being startled (how many cops have ADs all the time). And, I practice shooting a lot in DA at every range trip. I've gotten really good at it now.

If you don't like DA/SA - that's fine. There was a time when I was younger where I did not. However, now the opposite is true. I don't like Glock/XD/M&P style triggers (normal striker fired triggers), and ONLY want DA/SA. Which, there is nothing wrong with that. *Nor do I agree that DA/SA is a bad choice for newbies either*.

In fact - I took someone to the range very recently for their first time, and they shot several of my guns. I offered to rent some other choices, but they decided to just stick with mine. They liked the Beretta 92 enough to go buy one. Nothing wrong with that....

DA/SA is actually my suggestion to newbies for a first gun. I DO think it is safer for them while they are learning.


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

I had a friends Sig P239 for ten months. I have only been shooting for 4 years and except for my LCP BUG they are all Striker fired. DA/SA became a challenge to me. Being the novice that I am, when I had pro training sessions, I train with what I carried (G17 gen 4). But at the range i would compare them both using the same drills. Too many times the first shot was way off. and a few times the SIG SRT trigger would also get away from me (Had trouble finding THE WALL). I might go at it again. I have a shooting buddy that just got a CZ P09. I'm curious as to how i would do.

PS: I also think that many Firearm writers and Bloggers are finding that AIWB is really a good tactical way to carry. BUT, there is no room for any kind of ERROR.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I am quite squarely in Shipwreck's camp on this issue. I won't consider carrying a striker-fired pistol sans external safety, especially IWB. While I do own such pistols and keep one handy for home self-defense, I do not carry them. For carry I choose either a traditional double action or a double action only pistol.

I agree that blaming all negligent discharges on poor training and/or stupidity is a cop-out. It is like saying if people were never negligent, there would be no negligent discharges - big duh. People are what they are. Anyone can make a mistake when distracted or under stress.

I will agree that traditional double action pistols are not for everyone. They do require a commitment to master the double action trigger pull and the DA to SA transition. But honestly, it just isn't that difficult. Those who have fired only striker-action or single action pistols might struggle with it initially, but I find it no more difficult than training oneself to quickly and consistently disengage an external safety. DAO pistols are OK, and I do own two, but they all have quite long resets which can be a stumbling block if rapid fire is called for.

My preference is for traditional double action pistols with a live trigger decocker (no safety), such as the classic P-series SIGs or the Beretta G models. These pistols are quite safe to carry with a round chambered since the long DA trigger pull functions as a safety against premature or unintentional discharges. Yes, it is necessary to remember to decock these pistols before rehostering, but I have heard stories of shooters forgetting to reengage the safety on their model 1911s before reholstering too. Nothing is foolproof.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I would definitely cock the hammer on a DA/SA and put the gun in a nice crisp single action mode. 

But the double action first shot does gives you a choice for the charging bad guy.

just like my revolvers,, I will practice in double action, but I will also cock the hammer and shoot in single action

for example the ruger Blackhawk n RedHawk, the RedHawk is double action. But I would shoot the RedHawk in single action by cocking the hammer when hunting, etc


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pblanc said:


> ...DAO pistols are OK...but they all have quite long resets which can be a stumbling block if rapid fire is called for...


Mastering that is just a matter of practice and familiarity, just as mastering a TDA trigger is.
And if a TDA trigger is safer, than so must be a DAO trigger. The only difference is consistency and simplicity.

Although my usual EDC pistol is SA nowadays (and a mere .380), previously (for 20 years) it was a DAO pocket .45; and right now I'm carrying Jean's DAO pocket .380 on my left, since arthritis has temporarily disabled my right hand.

Although I've never been in a gunfight, I have come pretty close a couple of times.
In one case, I was carrying the DAO pocket .45, and, no, it didn't go off prematurely. And, in the other, my SA .45 didn't either.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I'll sit back and watch I still carry a SA and will continue.


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