# How often do you rotate your magazines?



## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

Are you saying to yourself, "What a silly question." I'm old school and with my semi-autos, I never leave a magazine fully loaded for my than 2 weeks. The other day, a co-worker was talking about his Ruger and he kept it loaded and on his night-stand. I asked how often he shot it and replied, "Oh, since I've bought it from my neighbor a few years ago, maybe two or three times." Well after telling him he needed to practice more, I asked how many magazines did he get with his gun. He replied that he had two. I asked if he rotated the mags. "Nope, the one in it has been there since last July. Why do you ask?" 
So sitting here tonight, I thought I would mention it in the hope it may save some one some grief or their life. So how often do you rotate your magazines.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

No real need to rotate magazines. Actually, more wear and tear occurs to the springs when they are loaded and unloaded. Today's metallurgy is quite good, and mag springs hold up well. 

I've had magazines that have been loaded in excess of two years. They still function fine.


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

I have 5 mags for my FNX, and I rotate through them every three months. I have a reminder set up on my phone. I keep one of them full of defensive ammo, the rest empty. It's more that I want to make it a ritual than anything based on fact or know how! I just like doing it. Lol


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

If I go to the trouble to rotate anything, it will be the tires on my vehicles, and my underwear of course. 

Every 5-7K miles for the tires, and every night for my Hanes. :smt033


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Rotate my magazines?
No, of course not.
If I turned them around the other way, they wouldn't fit into my pistol.

:smt082 :mrgreen: :smt083

See *paratrooper*'s reply: It's a good explanation of why changing magazines occasionally isn't important.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> Are you saying to yourself, "What a silly question." I'm old school and with my semi-autos, I never leave a magazine fully loaded for my than 2 weeks. The other day, a co-worker was talking about his Ruger and he kept it loaded and on his night-stand. I asked how often he shot it and replied, "Oh, since I've bought it from my neighbor a few years ago, maybe two or three times." Well after telling him he needed to practice more, I asked how many magazines did he get with his gun. He replied that he had two. I asked if he rotated the mags. "Nope, the one in it has been there since last July. Why do you ask?"
> So sitting here tonight, I thought I would mention it in the hope it may save some one some grief or their life. So how often do you rotate your magazines.


What grief?

They do not need to be rotated.

The more you operate the springs, the more you wear them out.

It's actually better to shoot only one, and save the others, loaded, for when you might need them.

Counter intuitive but true.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Rotate my magazines?
> No, of course not.
> If I turned them around the other way, they wouldn't fit into my pistol.
> 
> ...


I know, I thought of that too.

Funny how late night humor should not be tried at home, or so Jay Leno warns.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> No real need to rotate magazines. Actually, more wear and tear occurs to the springs when they are loaded and unloaded. Today's metallurgy is quite good, and mag springs hold up well.
> 
> I've had magazines that have been loaded in excess of two years. They still function fine.


Exactly.


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

The mag spring is made to be loaded. As long as it is not overloaded, it is operating well within it's tolerance range to be loaded and left that way. You read stories of folks you inherit grandads WWII wartime 1911 and it's loaded and still functions just fine after 60+ years. As long as you're not trying to load 12 rounds in a 7 round mag and over-compressing the spring then all should be fine.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

There was a time when I did rotate them every month but that is long gone. I do check them from time to time, but the quality of my carry gun mags is so good that rotating them is a waste of time. I have mags that contain my carry ammo and ones that are used for range time. The range time mags get dropped during reload drills and even then, they work fine.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

If you feel the need to do something to your magazines, make sure that they are clean. 

Specifically, removing the rounds and checking for lint, dust, and debris of any kind, and so on. Even more important for your carry mag(s). You'd be amazed at what kind of stuff can work it's way into a mag pouch. 

Occasionally, I remove the mag base plate, remove the spring and take a dry, clean rag and run it thru.


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## ymaharidr (Feb 16, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> No real need to rotate magazines. Actually, more wear and tear occurs to the springs when they are loaded and unloaded. Today's metallurgy is quite good, and mag springs hold up well.
> 
> I've had magazines that have been loaded in excess of two years. They still function fine.


I concur... the metallurgy is better in the latest magazines, therefore the springs have better 'memory' and don't fatigue.
And, if you have a magazine (or two) that you are using for CCW, there is no reason to keep others filled... so just don't fill the non-CCW mags when you are done at the range...
I have found that most military magazines are filled "minus one round" of capacity. I believe this is a practice to eliminate any feed problems.
Paul


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

Yeah paratrooper, those Hanes probably get rotated inside to out every other day. Sorry just a little mid-day humor. LOL

I have to say I am surprised by the responses. Unloading a magazine will wear the springs out. Whew, that is a knew one on me. I've carried semi-autos for 33 years and have never went a month without rotating my magazines and ammo. Once I've cycled my carry rounds through a magazine rotation ten times, they are set aside for one year or used as range fodder just to keep wear down on the casings. I found this info at Wolff's website. Don't rotate at your own risk, I just see it as being lazy and dangerous...

*5.) *How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds? 
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.
Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring. 
More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical. 
In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably. 
*6.)* My spring got shorter after I used it for a short time. Is it bad? 
Most new springs will take a set when they are first compressed. That means they will shorten up. This is a normal event and you should not be immediately alarmed. The greater the stress on the spring, generally the more set that will occur. All Wolff springs take this set into consideration. The ratings of the springs you receive are the ratings after the set has occurred. After set has taken place, the spring should remain essentially stable for the life of the spring.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

Trying not being a jerk but I have to call BS on the 60+ year magazine functioning properly. That is the most insane I have ever heard. If I saw it with my own eyes...I probably would still called BS. LOL


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Well......you asked and we responded. 

If I was going to do anything to a loaded mag, it might be to load one less round in it, than max. capacity allows. Other than that, I load um up and forget about um, and keep um clean as I mentioned.

Even though I'm retired, and have time on my hands, I'm still too busy to establish a routine in regards to swapping out magazines. Besides, even if I did have a routine set-up, most likely I'd forget about it. 

But hey, if it makes you feel better, swap those bad boys out. Peace of mind alone is worth it.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

MaxResponse said:


> Trying not being a jerk but I have to call BS on the 60+ year magazine functioning properly. That is the most insane I have ever heard. If I saw it with my own eyes...I probably would still called BS. LOL


Well, I have WW2-issue M1911 magazines (anti-rust packaging dated 1942-1944) that were in daily use from 1977 through 1999, including in competition, and are still in use today (although no longer anywhere near daily). Of the (maybe) 30 that I'd originally purchased, only two went bad-and it wasn't the spring, but rather the feed lips.
I realize that these magazines do not fit the criterion of 60 years fully loaded, but it's a start.

Just for fun: In the winter, I still occasionally wear the officer's-quality, wool uniform shirt that my stepfather wore during our involvement in _WW One_. It's no longer in perfect condition, but there are no holes in the fabric, and all of the buttons are still in place, held by the original thread. And it's still warm.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

I still have German military uniforms from my days there and they are well over 35 years old. I can't wear them due to my size now but up till six years ago, I wore them often. Very heavy garments and not in the best of shape but I could still wear them if I dropped a few pounds. 
With that being said though, in no way can any of those scenarios equal to a 60+ year old loaded 1911 magazine working flawlessly. No way, no how. 

I agree with those who say that rotating mags is a pain but the added safety factor it gives me or piece of mind is well worth the aggravation and time spent. I kinda feel that way about practicing but know that if I don't stay at it, one day, diminished skills may cost me or my family their life.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> I still have German military uniforms from my days there and they are well over 35 years old. I can't wear them due to my size now but up till six years ago, I wore them often. Very heavy garments and not in the best of shape but I could still wear them if I dropped a few pounds.
> With that being said though, in no way can any of those scenarios equal to a 60+ year old loaded 1911 magazine working flawlessly. No way, no how.
> 
> I agree with those who say that rotating mags is a pain but the added safety factor it gives me or piece of mind is well worth the aggravation and time spent. I kinda feel that way about practicing but know that if I don't stay at it, one day, diminished skills may cost me or my family their life.


The process of wearing out metals is by working them. The mechanical energy transferred to them causes the atoms in the lattice of the metals to crystallize and thus become brittle.

If you don't get that part, then you need to read up on metallurgy.

By giving really bad unscientific superstitious advice on a handgun forum, you are hurting others as well as yourself.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> Trying not being a jerk but I have to call BS on the 60+ year magazine functioning properly. That is the most insane I have ever heard. If I saw it with my own eyes...I probably would still called BS. LOL


What about science, specifically metallurgy? Is that B/S too ???


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Well......you asked and we responded.
> 
> If I was going to do anything to a loaded mag, it might be to load one less round in it, than max. capacity allows. Other than that, I load um up and forget about um, and keep um clean as I mentioned.
> 
> ...


Let's burn a witch while we're at it !!! Peace of mind.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> Let's burn a witch while we're at it !!! Peace of mind.


I really don't think that you're going to damage mag springs by loading and unloading them on an *occasional *basis.

My point was, and still is, it's not necessary to do it as much as some might believe, if at all.

If someone feels better by doing it, I say go for it. Just don't let it turn into an obsession and become too frequent.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> I really don't think that you're going to damage mag springs by loading and unloading them on an *occasional *basis.
> 
> My point was, and still is, it's not necessary to do it as much as some might believe, if at all.
> 
> If someone feels better by doing it, I say go for it. Just don't let it turn into an obsession and become too frequent.


What about the witch? Why not throw her in the fire just for good measure?


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Well, my routine is to under-stress my magazines. Something about all of them being set up for odd numbers: 13-round, 15-round, 7-round, 17-round. Yuk. I'm not superstitious, but I prefer even numbers. So I load my mags with an even number of rounds: 12 in a 13, 6 in a 7, 14 in a 15 and so forth. Since none have a round in the chamber while in the house (even the nightstand gun is an unloaded chamber) and since i've never had a breakin or occasion to draw a weapon at home, my even-ness must have seen me through. And it doesn't overstress the mag springs.

My quirk. It works for me.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Scorpion8 said:


> Well, my routine is to under-stress my magazines. Something about all of them being set up for odd numbers: 13-round, 15-round, 7-round, 17-round. Yuk. I'm not superstitious, but I prefer even numbers. So I load my mags with an even number of rounds: 12 in a 13, 6 in a 7, 14 in a 15 and so forth. Since none have a round in the chamber while in the house (even the nightstand gun is an unloaded chamber) and since i've never had a breakin or occasion to draw a weapon at home, my even-ness must have seen me through. And it doesn't overstress the mag springs.
> 
> My quirk. It works for me.


Ouch.....a gun that is not 100% ready to fire.

It's your call and the best of luck to you.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Scorpion8 said:


> Well, my routine is to under-stress my magazines. Something about all of them being set up for odd numbers: 13-round, 15-round, 7-round, 17-round. Yuk. I'm not superstitious, but I prefer even numbers. So I load my mags with an even number of rounds: 12 in a 13, 6 in a 7, 14 in a 15 and so forth. Since none have a round in the chamber while in the house (even the nightstand gun is an unloaded chamber) and since i've never had a breakin or occasion to draw a weapon at home, my even-ness must have seen me through. And it doesn't overstress the mag springs.
> 
> My quirk. It works for me.


I cannot imagine a single instance when it would be appropriate to keep a pistol in Condition #3 (mag loaded in the gun, no round in the chamber), other than a particular state law about carrying a pistol as such in a car.

This makes absolutely no sense on your person, either open carry or concealed, and it makes no sense in your house either.

You might as well take the mag out, for whatever reason, and keep it in Condition #4 (gun empty, loaded mags elsewhere, like in your mag pouch).


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

If there is only one thing that you choose to take from this forum, it is to keep your handgun loaded and ready to fire. 

That means one in the tube. My bedside gun is a SIG P250C, chambered in .40 cal. It doesn't even have a safety. 

If / when TSHTF, you are going to be confused and the adrenaline will be flowing. The last thing on your mind should not be to remember to chamber a round. Trust me on this.....please.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> If there is only one thing that you choose to take from this forum, is to keep your handgun loaded and ready to fire.
> 
> That means one in the tube. My bedside gun is a SIG P250C, chambered in .40 cal. It doesn't even have a safety.
> 
> If / when TSHTF, you are going to be confused and the adrenaline will be flowing. The last thing on your mind should not be to remember to chamber a round. Trust me on this.....please.


I have to completely agree with Paratrooper on this.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

AdamSmith said:


> The process of wearing out metals is by working them. The mechanical energy transferred to them causes the atoms in the lattice of the metals to crystallize and thus become brittle.
> 
> If you don't get that part, then you need to read up on metallurgy.
> 
> By giving really bad unscientific superstitious advice on a handgun forum, you are hurting others as well as yourself.


Rapid fire Adam Smith - wow...not semi-auto but full auto on your responses.  Without being or trying to sound like a snotty know-it-all; my current occupation in the aerospace industry and my wife's work history of 27 plus years of "metallurgy" applicable knowledge, gives me enough information to make reasonable statements concerning this topic. The quality of metals or the components used in making metals, in many cases does not equal the components or metals of 50 years ago. Modern manufacturing techniques go along way in "making" steel, 'er metal parts 'better'. 
On a weekly basis, I see metal housings rated at sustaining 5,200psi fail at half their maximum rating. A few months ago, one of our head engineers verbally stated our vendor's design was sound and even took a 15 year old housing we had in the lab up to 7,500psi and held it there for 10 minutes with no sign of failure. He then had one of our 'current' housings sent to a outside lab to have the metal composition tested. Without being too specific, the quality of the metal in the current housing was rated at 17% less capable than a 15 yr. old housing. 
I won't tell or suggest to any person reading my posts to do any thing that could harm them or a family member. Helping others is the goal here.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> Rapid fire Adam Smith - wow...not semi-auto but full auto on your responses.  Without being or trying to sound like a snotty know-it-all; my current occupation in the aerospace industry and my wife's work history of 27 plus years of "metallurgy" applicable knowledge, gives me enough information to make reasonable statements concerning this topic. The quality of metals or the components used in making metals, in many cases does not equal the components or metals of 50 years ago. Modern manufacturing techniques go along way in "making" steel, 'er metal parts 'better'.
> On a weekly basis, I see metal housings rated at sustaining 5,200psi fail at half their maximum rating. A few months ago, one of our head engineers verbally stated our vendor's design was sound and even took a 15 year old housing we had in the lab up to 7,500psi and held it there for 10 minutes with no sign of failure. He then had one of our 'current' housings sent to a outside lab to have the metal composition tested. Without being too specific, the quality of the metal in the current housing was rated at 17% less capable than a 15 yr. old housing.
> I won't tell or suggest to any person reading my posts to do any thing that could harm them or a family member. Helping others is the goal here.


What about the witch burnings then?


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## lefty60 (Oct 13, 2012)

I don' know nut'n and I can prove it and that's not count'n the brain damage:smt082 I've been operating semi-auto pistols for 40+ years now.

The only mag failure that I have had was one for a Ruger .22 standard pistol. This pistol had put, god only knows how many, thousands of rounds down range. The spring is not what failed. The gun was then rebuilt and the mag was replaced.

The mags for my carry guns are cycled when I rotate my carry ammo (about every 3-4 months), I shoot the old ammo and load new ammo into different mags.

Just my 2 bits worth, it's worked for me for many years:mrgreen:


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## lefty60 (Oct 13, 2012)

I forgot to add that I am happy to join in with the witch burning:anim_lol:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...But..._which_ Witch? :smt102


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

AdamSmith said:


> The process of wearing out metals is by working them. The mechanical energy transferred to them causes the atoms in the lattice of the metals to crystallize and thus become brittle.
> 
> If you don't get that part, then you need to read up on metallurgy.
> 
> By giving really bad unscientific superstitious advice on a handgun forum, you are hurting others as well as yourself.


I was going to stay out of this, having given my opinion and the reason behind it quite a few times. It's just beating a dead horse.

However, I really don't like it when someone (you) calls b.s. on someone and they (you) are wrong.

And then you insult the person. That is just disgraceful.

You are not worth the effort to refute your misapplication of "your self-proclaimed expertise in metallurgy".

"Be gone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" Oops, I mean "leave the springs in peace". :mrgreen:


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

I don't normally rotate my magazines. Neither do I like to rotate Glock's plastic magazines because the top edge of the magazine retention notches, inevitably, begin to show a lot of wear. I own a large number of magazines; but, in my EDC, I tend to use the same three mags over and over again. (Now that I think about it, my AK and AR magazines have been loaded for the past 7 years! All I do is keep everything downloaded by as many as one to three rounds - depending on the weapon.)

I've had 1911 steel body magazines that I've left loaded for more than a decade, maybe even two decades, and they've, all, fired just fine. If anything I noticed that the ammo might have been a little weaker than normal; but, everything's always fed and fired perfectly.

A friend of mine had an old 1911 magazine that he said he'd left loaded for more than 25 years; and when he used it the gun worked perfectly. I know his habits; he's got guns squirreled away all over the house; I'm sure some of them have been on shelves and in drawers for, at least, a couple of decades; so, yes, I do believe him.

The OP's statement that new magazine springs, 'take a set' is often challenged on the Internet. I agree, though; and I've had this popular internet argument with many others, many other times. New magazine springs DO take a set; and the set can cause the original length of the spring to shorten. Expansion and contraction are what, ultimately, wear a magazine spring out. Some springs wear out faster than others, though; I think it's because of the quality, flexibility, and tensile strength of the springs' metal. This is one of the reasons, 'Why' I prefer to use Wolff Gunsprings in all of my magazines.

How can you tell when a magazine spring is worn out? Frequent feeding problems are one of the first clues. The slide might close on an empty chamber; or the bottom rounds will start to stick. Sometimes cartridges will be struck on the bullet's nose, or stuck while only halfway into the chamber. When you examine a worn out magazine spring - and especially when you compare it to a new spring - it'll look, something like, a, 'wet noodle'. It'll be longer than normal, and kind 'a floppy with large spaces between the coils.

After getting some crappy magazine springs with one of my Glocks, I replaced all of the factory magazine springs with Wolff springs. Years ago I had feeding problems with a number of Glock magazines. Today, I don't have magazine problems; Wolff took care of them for me! In fact, I've become pretty good at solving magazine feeding and rattle problems. There's actually a lot to know about feed ramp angles and how the coils need to be spaced and aligned; but, as far as rotating magazines in order to preserve or extend their useful life? Naaa, that's a waste of time.

Neither do I carry in C-1. I'm in C-3 about 95% of the time; and usually only put a pistol into C-1 when I'm on a range. By the way, I'm going to agree that the normal ready condition for a Glock with a round in the chamber is C-0, and not C-1. (Pretensioned striker, and all that.) The thought of all these civilian, 'Glockeroos' walking around in public with their pistols in C-0 actually makes me nervous. So does spending a couple of hours at a public firing line on a Saturday morning. I've often had to, 'jump for my life' when some nincompoop with a gun has casually pointed, or swung his muzzle in my direction. It happens; and it happens much too often for my liking!

In Pennsylvania, where I live, any idiot with a clean record can walk into a gun shop and come out with a brand new Glock that he can't wait to load up and start shooting. One guy in Tamaqua shot his mother-in-law through the back of her car's front seat! He was sitting in the backseat, playing with his brand new Glock when, bingo, the Glock went off; and he perforated his wife's mother! Too bad nobody ever listens; but, human nature being what it is, nobody ever listens until AFTER something goes wrong - and, with guns, usually terribly wrong!

For those who insist, '_A pistol without a round in the chamber is a brick!_' (Ever hear that one before?), well, ....... that witticism comes across really cute on internet gun forums; but, out in the real world, it just ain't true; and I've known any number of serious pistoleros who could easily, 'put the lie' to that glib remark.

In fact, if I knew I were walking into a gunfight I'd rather be working with one man whose pistol was in C-3, and whom I knew would be totally committed to, 'stopping' the other guy, than I would standing next to two or even three other fellows who were merely in C-1. The vast majority of posters who make such remarks on the Internet have (to be perfectly candid) never been in a CQB pistol gunfight in their entire lives. It's just that in cyberspace everybody's a, 'badass'; everybody's an expert. In my considered opinion, the vast majority of civilians who are walking around, out there, and are in C-0/1 all of the time, are needlessly endangering, both, themselves and everybody else with whom they come in contact.

Please don't think I'm arguing. I'm not. This is only my honest personal opinion; however, it does have a certain amount of real world experience behind it. Lately, this forum has been getting a little cranky. Maybe we should all kiss and make up?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> Ouch.....a gun that is not 100% ready to fire.
> 
> It's your call and the best of luck to you.[/
> 
> ...


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> paratrooper said:
> 
> 
> > Ouch.....a gun that is not 100% ready to fire.
> ...


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree with Glock Doctor and the rest of the guys here. I do have one exception though, the mag's design.

M16 and Wilson's original 8rd and 8rd conversions are it. You can only pack so much into a certain space before something is blown out of whack, and both of these are an example of over stressing the spring at fully loaded. Now good 8rd mags aren't flush fit for a reason.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pic said:


> Of all the people I know and have met, no one wears a gun on their person in their home...


We haven't met, but I'm one of those who carry a concealed pistol "24/7."

Jean and I live on an isolated and peaceful little island. There is very little crime here, mostly because if you were to rob one of our three bank branches, and leap into your getaway car, and speed away, you would end up on the line waiting to get onto the ferry to the mainland. Since the wait is normally about an hour on the best of days, one of the sheriff's deputies would come and get you long before you went anywhere.
And yet it was on this peaceful little island that my "24/7" carry gun came in quite handy, and helped to short-circuit a home invasion problem.

A visitor to the island had picked up a hitch-hiking kid in our central village, and had dropped him off at the top of the rise on which our home sits. After the kid had left the car and walked away, the visitor discovered that something very important to him seemed to be missing from his car.
Since ours was the nearest house, the visitor knocked on our (glass) kitchen door, looking for the kid. He just would not take "no" for an answer, insisted that the kid had to live in our house, and demanded to be let in to search for the kid and his missing "stuff." No, he didn't want us to phone the Sheriff. (Aha: Now we know what was missing!)
The visitor, bigger and younger than both Jean and I, and certainly not victim to the arthritis which plagues me, decided that he was coming into our house, and if I was in his way it would be just too bad for me. So I made sure that he saw me reach into my pocket and grasp something kind of rectangular-my little .45 pistol, in fact.
This time when I told him "No!" it had the proper effect, and he returned to his car and drove off. I phoned the Sheriff with a pretty good description. They picked him up on the ferry line. Oh, yeah: His "stash" hadn't been stolen after all, but had only fallen to the floor of his car.

And that's why I carry "24/7," including at home, even on this peaceful little island.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

I am somewhere between Paratrooper and Steve.

I don't wear my 45ACP at home, but it is out and available in case I need to grab it to fight off a home invasion.

Here in California, home invasions are the fastest growing crime, comprised of gangs from out of town riding around in a car and looking for easy targets.

At night, I sleep with my 45 under my pillow.

If you want to be able to react to home invasion crime, you need to be prepared 24/7.

However we were not trying to get Max to copy us.

We just want Max to load the chamber, and then set one safety of some kind, rather than go around with the chamber empty.

The safety I use is that I lower the hammer, into Condition #2 -- pistol loaded / magazine full / round chambered / hammer lowered all the way.

My 45 has a firing pin spring safety, therefore it is safe to carry in this condition.

To shoot it all I need to do is pull the trigger. It is a harder, longer pull than on a Glock, therefore it is more safe than a Glock.


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## oldman45 (Feb 17, 2014)

MaxResponse said:


> Trying not being a jerk but I have to call BS on the 60+ year magazine functioning properly. That is the most insane I have ever heard. If I saw it with my own eyes...I probably would still called BS. LOL


I just made a post to another thread about my father's WWII 1911. He was discharged in 1946 and got to keep his gun. I began shooting it as a little boy back in the 50's. He died in 1989 and I inherited it. Some time back, I took it to the range. It was loaded with FMJ in the WWII military magazine. I had not shot it since he died and he had not shot it in years. The gun worked beautifully as did the magazine. I reloaded it and ran several more rounds through it. No problem at all. The US made some good things during the war and the 1911 as well as the magazines are still working.

I carry a 1911 daily in work. I would trust that one WWII magazine to get me home in the evening any day of the week.

Come on down to Louisiana and I will be more than happy to let you run some rounds through it as well.

BTW: Try pricing a WWII 1911 with the original magazine. They are out there but those old mags sell like they are new only higher. They are also used in many re enactments.

eBay has many WWII issued 1911 mags that are just as good as new for sale.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Glock Doctor said:


> I don't normally rotate my magazines. Neither do I like to rotate Glock's plastic magazines because the top edge of the magazine retention notches, inevitably, begin to show a lot of wear. I own a large number of magazines; but, in my EDC, I tend to use the same three mags over and over again. (Now that I think about it, my AK and AR magazines have been loaded for the past 7 years! All I do is keep everything downloaded by as many as one to three rounds - depending on the weapon.)
> 
> I've had 1911 steel body magazines that I've left loaded for more than a decade, maybe even two decades, and they've, all, fired just fine. If anything I noticed that the ammo might have been a little weaker than normal; but, everything's always fed and fired perfectly.
> 
> ...


Well my personal view is that for a Glock, you should carry it in Condition #3 -- chamber empty.

For any non-Glock design, I prefer Condition #2 -- hammer down on a loaded chamber.

I know the 1911A1 guys prefer Condition #1 -- loaded and cocked with the safety on. That's fine too. That would make me a little nervous though.


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## oldman45 (Feb 17, 2014)

AdamSmith said:


> I know the 1911A1 guys prefer Condition #1 -- loaded and cocked with the safety on. That's fine too. That would make me a little nervous though.


Why would it make you nervous? In order to fire, the grip safty has to be pressed, the thumb safety has to be off and the trigger has to be pulled, all at the same time. A 1911 is drop safe and many of the new non 1911 guns are not. The 1911 is the safetest gun I know of. I carry one any time I am dressed and that is seven days a week. Never had any type of incident. Some I work with are still carrying Glocks and several of them have suffered AD or ND as well as personal injury.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

oldman45 said:


> ...The 1911 is the safetest [sic] gun I know of...


Yup!

The only reason I would not carry a 1911 (or my .380 Pocket Hammerless, which works the same) is that sometimes I pocket carry.
For that carry method, and that one alone, I feel that a DA trigger is safer.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

oldman45 said:


> Why would it make you nervous? In order to fire, the grip safty has to be pressed, the thumb safety has to be off and the trigger has to be pulled, all at the same time. A 1911 is drop safe and many of the new non 1911 guns are not. The 1911 is the safetest gun I know of. I carry one any time I am dressed and that is seven days a week. Never had any type of incident. Some I work with are still carrying Glocks and several of them have suffered AD or ND as well as personal injury.


BECAUSE with the hammer back, I simply don't trust any of those safeties. Murphy's Law.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Yup!
> 
> The only reason I would not carry a 1911 (or my .380 Pocket Hammerless, which works the same) is that sometimes I pocket carry.
> For that carry method, and that one alone, I feel that a DA trigger is safer.


I love verbally sparring with you, Steve !!! So here goes ...

If a D/A trigger is safer in your pocket, then it is also safer on your hip too. And that's why I like Condition #2 with my double and single action 45 ACP.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Sorry, Adam. I refuse to rise to the bait.

I'm not here to "spar" with anyone.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Sorry, Adam. I refuse to rise to the bait.
> 
> I'm not here to "spar" with anyone.


I love my D/A-S/A-both trigger on my CZ 97B 45 ACP. Makes it just like a German Walther.

The 1911A1's with their S/A-only triggers are more like the German Lugers -- and earlier design.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> pic said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but if you're trying to make some kind of point, you're going to have to point it out to me.
> ...


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> We haven't met, but I'm one of those who carry a concealed pistol "24/7."
> 
> Jean and I live on an isolated and peaceful little island. There is very little crime here, mostly because if you were to rob one of our three bank branches, and leap into your getaway car, and speed away, you would end up on the line waiting to get onto the ferry to the mainland. Since the wait is normally about an hour on the best of days, one of the sheriff's deputies would come and get you long before you went anywhere.
> And yet it was on this peaceful little island that my "24/7" carry gun came in quite handy, and helped to short-circuit a home invasion problem.
> ...


Me too , 24/7,, maybe 23.5/7. I was just messing with paratrooper, he has plenty of street experience, and I respect that.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Yup!
> 
> The only reason I would not carry a 1911 (or my .380 Pocket Hammerless, which works the same) is that sometimes I pocket carry.
> For that carry method, and that one alone, I feel that a DA trigger is safer.


I agree wholeheartedly with that, a heavy DA in a pocket holster is about the best way to go.

I don't understand the 1911 deal and agree with Oldman, it's basically the safest design around. Even if the thumb safety gets knocked off the trigger still can't move. I've carried Cond 0 by accident and on purpose, no big deal. As long as the trigger is covered a 1911 is roughly a Glock with a nicer trigger, don't play with it and nothing will happen. If by some freak event the 1911's sear snaps, yeah that would suck but we're talking something extreeeemey rare and something that could happen in any gun. But you still won't shoot yourself unless you carry appendix.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> Me too , 24/7,, maybe 23.5/7. I was just messing with paratrooper, he has plenty of street experience, and I respect that.


There's both good and bad about spending the better portion of your adult life as a cop. Overall, it's a lesson in life. It's one thing to read about it in the daily paper, and a whole other thing to have been part of it, and trying your best to insure a proper outcome.

It can and will color your life to some degree. It's not always a good thing.


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## oldman45 (Feb 17, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> There's both good and bad about spending the better portion of your adult life as a cop. Overall, it's a lesson in life. It's one thing to read about it in the daily paper, and a whole other thing to have been part of it, and trying your best to insure a proper outcome.
> 
> It can and will color your life to some degree. It's not always a good thing.


I found that having to handle those involved in the less than lawful portion of the masses has made me more distrusting of strangers, more protective of my property and more strict when raising my children.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

oldman45 said:


> I found that having to handle those involved in the less than lawful portion of the masses has made me more distrusting of strangers, more protective of my property and more strict when raising my children.


Yes, I agree!

A career in LE provides both a good and bad experience. You cannot always separate one from the other. There are times when they tend to blend together and make matters even worse.

The average person on the street really doesn't have a clue as to what some people are capable of. It's scary actually. Knowing what I do, makes it tough at times to see the good in others. The bad is so much more obvious, as I tend to focus on that for obvious reasons.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> There's both good and bad about spending the better portion of your adult life as a cop. Overall, it's a lesson in life. It's one thing to read about it in the daily paper, and a whole other thing to have been part of it, and trying your best to insure a proper outcome.
> 
> It can and will color your life to some degree. It's not always a good thing.


Understand what your saying.
lot of meaning , well said.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

^ This.

Especially in busy urban cities where you get exposed daily to the despicable things people do to others. Makes me want to try working in a rural area at times.

As far as the OP... I inspect and clean if needed, but don't rotate my mags.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> I was going to stay out of this, having given my opinion and the reason behind it quite a few times. It's just beating a dead horse.
> 
> However, I really don't like it when someone (you) calls b.s. on someone and they (you) are wrong.
> 
> ...


You know, nearly every site/forum I have visited over the years, there have always been those that are deeply offended by my Doubting Thomas or BS statements. If I have angered those by my responses, I apologize but I will tell you this. If we were face to face sitting in my den and you tell me a story that is far fetched, I will, have and will continue to tell you to your face - BS. For the most part, my tack will not be as direct; maybe more subtle but you will not mistake my stance. 
In today's world, being polite and agreeing with false or misleading statements or people will get you one thing...taken. My thread was meant to be used or seen as a "helpful" tool. No problem if you disagree. I appreciate the direct approach myself. As far as me claiming to be an expert in anything, I'm not but I have had (been blessed) with a life filled with various occupations that give me insight that I willingly share. I do not brag or thump my chest, my actions speak for me in ways words cannot. 
*Oldman45 * thanks for the invite to shoot that 45, I'm sure we would have a good time. But using a WWII magazine is not the same as having you pull out that fully loaded 45 that has sat unused for 60+ years and pulling the trigger and the magazine performing flawlessly. 
Sorry for the long winded response. Cheers!


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

MaxResponse said:


> You know, nearly every site/forum I have visited over the years, there have always been those that are deeply offended by my Doubting Thomas or BS statements. If I have angered those by my responses, I apologize but I will tell you this. If we were face to face sitting in my den and you tell me a story that is far fetched, I will, have and will continue to tell you to your face - BS. For the most part, my tack will not be as direct; maybe more subtle but you will not mistake my stance.
> In today's world, being polite and agreeing with false or misleading statements or people will get you one thing...taken. My thread was meant to be used or seen as a "helpful" tool. No problem if you disagree. . . Cheers!


I think you have misunderstood my post. It was in response to Adam Smith. It in no way referenced anything you had contributed.

If you go back to my original post that "you repeat my part" you can see I repeated Adam Smith's post above mine. So I was directly responding to him.
It's a bit of trouble to include multiple posts with the author's name. So I'm not going to make the effort.

I have NO problem with your contributions to the original poster's request for information on magazine springs. 
Or the ideas you expressed. Or the manner you expressed them. I think you provided positive info to "the discussion".

I do have some problems with Adam Smith and some of "his contributions". But not with all of his stuff. A mixed bag in my view.

Peace, MaxR. :smt1099
Dan


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## Desertrat (Apr 26, 2007)

About every 2 months


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

paratrooper said:


> No real need to rotate magazines. Actually, more wear and tear occurs to the springs when they are loaded and unloaded. Today's metallurgy is quite good, and mag springs hold up well.
> 
> I've had magazines that have been loaded in excess of two years. They still function fine.


According to an engineer at Wolff springs, don't remember what his name was because I read it in a gun magazine about a year ago, you are correct. Having a spring compressed does not wear them out, what wears the temper out of them is the constant up and down motion.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> There's both good and bad about spending the better portion of your adult life as a cop. Overall, it's a lesson in life. It's one thing to read about it in the daily paper, and a whole other thing to have been part of it, and trying your best to insure a proper outcome.
> 
> It can and will color your life to some degree. It's not always a good thing.


We need people with the constitution to serve in law enforcement, so if that's what you did, Paratrooper, then I salute you. Glad it was not me. My application decades ago was accepted to join the FBI and go to their Quantico training facility, but upon further review I decided to decline. The thought process included the ugly side of society which you would be forced to face.

Office work is much more peaceful.

That whole issue of law enforcement would be a new and different thread, of course.

Has nothing to do with (erroneously) "rotating" your magazines to "save" the springs in them.

If you want to "save" your springs then you should specifically NOT rotate them.

Counter-intuitive but based on the laws of physics and metallurgy, true.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> We need people with the constitution to serve in law enforcement, so if that's what you did, Paratrooper, then I salute you. Glad it was not me. My application decades ago was accepted to join the FBI and go to their Quantico training facility, but upon further review I decided to decline. The thought process included the ugly side of society which you would be forced to face.
> 
> *Office work is much more peaceful*.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but paper cuts suck. :watching:


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Yeah, but paper cuts suck. :watching:


Being stabbed in the back by the slithering office workers is worse though.

And in addition you also have the occasional Richard Wade Farley's -- which all office workers tremble in dread of -- which is why you cannot mention "gun" in an office setting anywhere.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

It looks like I have been over-zealous in the rotation of my magazines and if I go to a every other month rotation, it saves me time and money. I am curious though, if I have followed this fanatic rotation system of every two weeks, why have I never had a magazine fail? I have experienced jams/FTF/stove pipes on the range before but after clearing the round, the pistol continue to fire without issue. Could this be an indication of weakened springs or worse?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

MaxResponse said:


> It looks like I have been over-zealous in the rotation of my magazines and if I go to a every other month rotation, it saves me time and money. I am curious though, if I have followed this fanatic rotation system of every two weeks, why have I never had a magazine fail? I have experienced jams/FTF/stove pipes on the range before but after clearing the round, the pistol continue to fire without issue. Could this be an indication of weakened springs or worse?


I've had issues with brand-new magazines, right out of the package. I have mags that are very old, range beaten to death, look like crap, and they never give me issues.

I buy ammo as I find it. Meaning, that I don't stick to any one brand. Some ammo will feed differently than others for obvious reasons. I simply cannot estimate the # of rounds I've fired over the years. But, I can say that issues I've had with ammo, mags, or feed issues, can be counted on 10 fingers or less.

Just too many variables involved to blame a magazine solely for each and every feed or function issue.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...Yes, but it certainly is the first place to look.

If you're experiencing jams or other failures to feed (not extract—feed), and the gun is clean, the first thing to do is change to a different magazine.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Yes, but it certainly is the first place to look.
> 
> If you're experiencing jams or other failures to feed (not extract-feed), and the gun is clean, the first thing to do is change to a different magazine.


I do agree. It's just that I really don't recall having that many issues with a magazine.

And yet I read that others are having issues or problems. Someone told me once, that an issue isn't always a problem, nor is a problem always an issue.

Maybe it's a situation he's having and doesn't know it.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Yes, but it certainly is the first place to look.
> 
> If you're experiencing jams or other failures to feed (not extract-feed), and the gun is clean, the first thing to do is change to a different magazine.


Exactly. I had to shxx-can an entire magazine once which turned out to be faulty, compared to the other 4.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> It looks like I have been over-zealous in the rotation of my magazines and if I go to a every other month rotation, it saves me time and money. I am curious though, if I have followed this fanatic rotation system of every two weeks, why have I never had a magazine fail? I have experienced jams/FTF/stove pipes on the range before but after clearing the round, the pistol continue to fire without issue. Could this be an indication of weakened springs or worse?


Using anecdotal data (stuff you gathered on your own) is always going to be insufficient to conclude a valid law or theory about anything. Data needs to come from a myriad (Greek word meaning 10,000) of independent sources before any valid scientific conclusions can be drawn.

Jams are caused my many different things.

I suspect that your springs are more crystallized than anybody else's. But this will have nothing to do with jamming. It just means that someday you will break a spring, quite by surprise, sooner than you would have if you did NOT "rotate" them.


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## bushrat (Jun 25, 2013)

Keep one mag always loaded and shoot it out once a year and replace with fresh ammo. Just a habit, no particular reason. I use a different magazine for practice because I usually practice with fmj and don't want to wear the spring out unloading and reloading my carry ammo.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

AdamSmith said:


> Using anecdotal data (stuff you gathered on your own) is always going to be insufficient to conclude a valid law or theory about anything. Data needs to come from a myriad (Greek word meaning 10,000) of independent sources before any valid scientific conclusions can be drawn...


1. "Anecdotal data" also means _data gathered from case studies, as reported by other people_. It is not limited solely to data from one's own experience.
2. The word correctly used is _myriad_, not "a myriad of." To properly recast your statement: "Data needs to come from myriad independent sources."


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Generally in my experience when you start having failures to feed on the last round or two is when a magazine spring becomes the main culprit. Personally, I don't like leaving magazines loaded for extended periods of time. I leave one magazine loaded in a mag with a relatively fresh or fresh spring for my HD firearm, but that is out of necessity only. I unload my carry magazines daily and reload in the morning, at least I have a feel for the spring tension this way, and if I don't like it, the spring gets changed. Most major manufacturers of HD shotguns recommend that you not leave them fully loaded for extended periods of time, and Wolff gun springs states as follows:

5. "How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds? 

Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting. 

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring. 

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical. 

In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably." 

My personal experience(others may vary) coincides with what I've stated, or quoted above. Others say it's a false statement and ploy by Wollf to sell more magazine springs, I don't buy that argument. Magazine spring failure at a crucial time is not a good thing, and the only time I've had magazine spring failure was from magazines loaded for extended periods of time, so, much better to be safe than sorry.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

denner said:


> Generally in my experience when you start having failures to feed on the last round or two is when a magazine spring becomes the main culprit. Personally, I don't like leaving magazines loaded for extended periods of time. I leave one magazine loaded in a mag with a relatively fresh or fresh spring for my HD firearm, but that is out of necessity only. *I unload my carry magazines daily and reload in the morning*, at least I have a feel for the spring tension this way, and if I don't like it, the spring gets changed. .......


That sounds like a lot of unnecessary extra work! As radical as it may sound it's, also, possible to have problems with a brand new (and, consequently, too stiff) magazine spring. I like my magazine springs to be well broken in, and tend to trust a spring with a good thousand rounds on it more than something that's straight out of the envelope. Anyone who might obsess about changing magazine springs would, also, be smart to change his magazine followers, at least, once a year as well.

Neither do I see Wolff Gunsprings, 'kidding anybody along' in order to sell a few more springs. Walter Wolff is running a large, very busy manufacturing company; and I'm sure he's not hurting for business. In all the years that I've been dealing with Dave Koebensky and Susan at Wolff I've never had a negative experience of any kind. Dave's technical advice has always been, 'spot on' too.

In fact I, myself, am not a big fan of excessively handling and rehandling any small arms ammunition. Some of my shooting buddies even wear Nitrile or latex gloves while loading their magazines. (Which, upon reflection, doesn't seem like such an outrageous idea.)



Steve M1911A1 said:


> 1. "Anecdotal data" also means _data gathered from case studies, as reported by other people_. It is not limited solely to data from one's own experience.
> 
> 2. The word correctly used is _myriad_, not "a myriad of." To properly recast your statement: "Data needs to come from myriad independent sources."


:smt107 Here I thought I was a grammar Nazi!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

English grammar is the only thing in which I hold a Black Belt.

If ya got it, flaunt it!


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

denner said:


> Generally in my experience when you start having failures to feed on the last round or two is when a magazine spring becomes the main culprit. Personally, I don't like leaving magazines loaded for extended periods of time. I leave one magazine loaded in a mag with a relatively fresh or fresh spring for my HD firearm, but that is out of necessity only. I unload my carry magazines daily and reload in the morning, at least I have a feel for the spring tension this way, and if I don't like it, the spring gets changed. Most major manufacturers of HD shotguns recommend that you not leave them fully loaded for extended periods of time, and Wolff gun springs states as follows:
> 
> 5. "How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
> 
> ...


I'm just happy to see another person that doesn't take those little springs inside of magazines for granted. A kind of similar situation happened a few weeks ago at work. On our safety team, we are required to ask different employees safety oriented questions so I approached a co-worker and asked what should he do if there is a total power failure and the plant is pitch black. "I don't have to worry about that, we have emergency lights that will come on." I explained you never depend on those lights to come on because as soon as you do, they won't and it will probably be at a critical time. 
That really sums up my thoughts on magazine rotation and why I've always rotated through them. Some believe they will never fail regardless of how long they have sat loaded & unused, some feel that the springs being depressed and released as they were designed will weaken them to the point of failure and others avoid this worry by swearing by a wheel gun. Ha!


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Glock Doctor said:


> That sounds like a lot of unnecessary extra work! As radical as it may sound it's, also, possible to have problems with a brand new (and, consequently, too stiff) magazine spring. I like my magazine springs to be well broken in, and tend to trust a spring with a good thousand rounds on it more than something that's straight out of the envelope.


No, not that much work, no more than brushing your teeth, one can wash their hands afterwards if concerned. Secondly, it's not a bad thing to handle and inspect your carry ammunition for set back etc... I know my platforms through much experience and "too stiff a magazine spring" or a fresh one out of the envelope is a go for any magazine I keep loaded for extended time periods. I use Wolff +10 percent mag springs in my pistols and have for many, many, years. The magazine springs I use don't need a 1000 round break in period in my pistols to be trusted, nor any break in at all in my experience. I personally have never had any issues with out of the envelope mag springs and function problems, but, I have with older extended use and extended loaded magazines. At that point and after, I wouldn't call it obsessive, but when my magazine spring failed it got my attention, and the what if's crossed my mind immediately. As said, others mileage may vary, but rest assured if something goes wrong with my pistols it probably won't be the magazine springs.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

denner said:


> No, not that much work, no more than brushing your teeth, one can wash their hands afterwards if concerned. Secondly, it's not a bad thing to handle and inspect your carry ammunition for set back etc... I know my platforms through much experience and "too stiff a magazine spring" or a fresh one out of the envelope is a go for any magazine I keep loaded for extended time periods. I use Wolff +10 percent mag springs in my pistols and have for many, many, years. The magazine springs I use don't need a 1000 round break in period in my pistols to be trusted, nor any break in at all in my experience. I personally have never had any issues with out of the envelope mag springs and function problems, but, I have with older extended use and extended loaded magazines. At that point and after, I wouldn't call it obsessive, but when my magazine spring failed it got my attention, and the what if's crossed my mind immediately. As said, others mileage may vary, but rest assured if something goes wrong with my pistols it probably won't be the magazine springs.


As you've, probably, already guessed: I, too, am a longtime user of Wolff gunsprings. I, also, prefer to use Wolff's, 'extra power' magazine, striker, and trigger springs in my Glocks (as well as heavier recoil and striker springs in my Colt 1911's). In all the years that I've been pistoleering I've never found a (properly functioning) magazine spring that I couldn't get a good 7 to 10 thousand fired rounds out of.

Can you really trust a brand new magazine spring more than another spring that's well broken in? Well, ....... back in the days when 10 round magazines were the (stupid) law of the land, I ordered a bunch of standard weight and length Wolff magazine springs for my G-21's. NONE OF THEM WORKED! All of the standard weight springs were too powerful for Glock's 10 round 45 ACP magazines. So, even with Wolff magazine springs things can still go wrong. (Wasn't Wolff's fault; but the problem was legislated into existence and remained with us for awhile.)

Frankly, I think I'm very careful with the way that I treat my semiautomatic springs. While I wouldn't waste my time obsessively changing magazine springs I always download my carry magazines by, at least, one round. A few years ago I went through, something like, 50,000 fired rounds out of two G-21's WITHOUT A SINGLE JAM OR HANG-UP of any kind; so I have reason to believe that I've got the, 'magazine spring thing' down pretty good!

Neither do I think it wise to excessively handle pistol ammo, either. Other than for occasionally, 'shooting off' carry ammo that's been around for awhile, I leave my loaded pistol ammo alone; but, then again, I usually carry in C-3; so I don't really have to worry about any bullet setback. (Whenever one of my pistols is in C-1 it's pretty certain that I'm going to be firing off whatever's in the gun.)

If I'm, 'obsessive' about any aspect of daily gun use it's got to be gun safety AND cleanliness. I keep my EDC's in immaculate condition; and, as part of this process, I use routine cleaning and lubricating as opportunities to check out ALL of the various parts of my guns. If my EDC gets wet, I'll break it down and dry it. About once a week I'll lightly lubricate the friction points; and that's about it. The rest of the time I tend to leave the gun alone.

Just like I did this morning! I took my pistol out from underneath my pillow, looked at it quickly, wiped it off, and then slipped it into my brand new belt scabbard. (You should see the beautiful, snap-on, basketweave holster that Jeff Hays in Colorado Springs made for me. Even my wife, who doesn't usually notice my equipment, said it's a real, 'eye catcher'!)

As I've said: If I'm going to be obsessive about anything associated with a pistol it's going to be gun handling and safety, first! I've had a lot of gunsmithing experience; I know when a pistol is working well, and when it isn't. I, also, know how to recognize when a pistol is, 'starting to get there' too. 5,000 rounds through a pistol magazine is, more than likely, nothing to worry about. 7,,000 fired rounds? OK, maybe, it's time for a change. 10,000 fired rounds? All right! Go ahead and change ALL of the springs.

(Usually, though, it's actually a good thing to allow both the magazine springs AND the recoil spring to wear-in AND wear-out, together. I'll add that I've known pistoleros who've pushed 12 to 14,000 + rounds through their pistols without a problem; so, perhaps, a lot of people are pushing this topic a little too hard.)


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Glock Doctor said:


> As you've, probably, already guessed: I, too, am a longtime user of Wolff gunsprings. I, also, prefer to use Wolff's, 'extra power' magazine, striker, and trigger springs in my Glocks (as well as heavier recoil and striker springs in my Colt 1911's). In all the years that I've been pistoleering I've never found a (properly functioning) magazine spring that I couldn't get a good 7 to 10 thousand fired rounds out of.
> 
> Can you really trust a brand new magazine spring more than another spring that's well broken in? Well, ....... back in the days when 10 round magazines were the (stupid) law of the land, I ordered a bunch of standard weight and length Wolff magazine springs for my G-21's. NONE OF THEM WORKED! All of the standard weight springs were too powerful for Glock's 10 round 45 ACP magazines. So, even with Wolff magazine springs things can still go wrong. (Wasn't Wolff's fault; but the problem was legislated into existence and remained with us for awhile.)
> 
> ...


You just had to mention the recoil spring didn't you?

Do you have any idea as to the can of worms you might have opened up? :buttkick:


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

The devil made me do it! :smt002


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Glock Doctor said:


> As you've, probably, already guessed: I, too, am a longtime user of Wolff gunsprings. I, also, prefer to use Wolff's, 'extra power' magazine, striker, and trigger springs in my Glocks (as well as heavier recoil and striker springs in my Colt 1911's). In all the years that I've been pistoleering I've never found a (properly functioning) magazine spring that I couldn't get a good 7 to 10 thousand fired rounds out of.
> 
> Can you really trust a brand new magazine spring more than another spring that's well broken in? Well, ....... back in the days when 10 round magazines were the (stupid) law of the land, I ordered a bunch of standard weight and length Wolff magazine springs for my G-21's. NONE OF THEM WORKED! All of the standard weight springs were too powerful for Glock's 10 round 45 ACP magazines. So, even with Wolff magazine springs things can still go wrong. (Wasn't Wolff's fault; but the problem was legislated into existence and remained with us for awhile.)
> 
> ...


:smt1099 Sounds good,


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