# P99 or SW99 in 9mm



## .5461 (Jan 22, 2008)

im trying to decide which to get as my next gun, it will only be 2nd, my first was a p22 and i really like the way it shoots, ive shot both through different friends that have em, but just can decide, so you tell me


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Realize that the SW99 is the same gun as the Walther P99 A/S. But, the SW99 was discontinued at the end of 2005. Although, U can still buy them new.

The SW990L was still in production as of Dec 2007, but I think S&W will discontinue it soon, personally. They will want to push the M&P more. Anyway, the SW990L is the same as the P99 QA trigger, only it has no decocker button at all.

I have owned a SW99 up until recently, and I have 2 P99s. I prefer the P99. It looks better, and the grip IS slightly different - the P99's grip is better IMHO.

Also, before I decided to sell my SW99, I did comparison shooting many times, and my P99 A/S was slightly more accurate than the SW99. However, the SW99's triggerw as a tiny bit better. But, that can vary from specimen to specimen of the same gun.

If U can get the Walther, go ahead.

I only bought the SW99 because Walther stopped importing the P99 A/S for a few months in 2005. After I got it, I stillw anted the original....


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## PX (May 14, 2006)

FWIW:

And another country heard from!

Here's my 2c worth.

Are you a young (or relatively young) person? 

If so keep in mind the P99 will come with a one year warranty. (That you will probably never need anyway). BUT: The SW99 will come with a Lifetime warranty, backed by S&W. 

Keep in mind that finding good used P99/AS will be difficult, and pricey if you find one. A new Walther P99/AS will probably run you pretty close to $600.00. CDNN is selling "test fired only" SW99's for $369.00....

My buddy has an SW99 and when he and I shoot our guns head to head I just don't see any difference in accuracy or reliability, so I have a pretty high opinion of the SW99.

IMO the bargain both moneywise, and warrantywise is the SW99.. Now, having said that, I've got two P99's and one PPS... 

I just love pistols with the Walther Banner on the slide, and so far I've never had one let me down.. 

Just opinion/ymmv

JPomeroy


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## James NM (Jan 4, 2007)

I own both. They're both great guns - though they're hard to find. I'd get whichever one you can find at a decent price. The SW99 is usually a little cheaper, and comes with a lifetime warranty - the Walther P99 is one year. Couldn't go wrong with either one.

To me, the trigger type is more important than the brand. Most people (me included) prefer the Anti-stress(AS) trigger over the Quick-action(QA), Lightning(L), or Double-action-only(DAO).


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

The Walther has a 1 year official warranty - but S&W actually does the warranty for them, and I've never heard them turning anyone away - even after 1 year.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

James NM said:


> To me, the trigger type is more important than the brand. Most people (me included) prefer the Anti-stress(AS) trigger over the Quick-action(QA), Lightning(L), or Double-action-only(DAO).


I'm a P99 fanatic, and I have only ever heard of 3 trigger styles - A/S, QA and DAO. Never heard of a Lightning trigger on a WALTHER P99...


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

You can't lose with either.

SW99 and 2nd gen P99 share the same rail and while accessories are rare, they can be found. 1st gen P99 has proprietary front rail

1st gen P99 used by Bond in movies. (good news... will get you laid by Bond/Walther fans; bad news... these fans are mostly middle-aged guys)

SW99 lifetime S&W warranty. P99 1 year warranty service by S&W and sometimes out of warranty P99s fixed free.

SW99 has forward serrations on slide for easier press checks

SW99 was available in .45 ACP

SW99 has short 1st gen P99 mag release

1st gen P99 and SW99 have trigger hump

P99 has finger indexing groove on grip


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## James NM (Jan 4, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> I'm a P99 fanatic, and I have only ever heard of 3 trigger styles - A/S, QA and DAO. Never heard of a Lightning trigger on a WALTHER P99...


The "Lightning" is the "L" in SW990L. Nothing more than Smith's version of the QA.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I don't wanna talk out of turn, but I've always held German engineering in higher regard than American engineering. That statement may be completely off when concerning firearms, but my experience with international engineering comes from cars. BMWs, MBs, Porsches, VWs, Audis...all put American companies to shame when it comes to build quality and reliability. But at the same time, Italians build the worst cars on the planet, yet Benelli, an Italian company, produces excellent shotguns. Smith & Wesson has a pretty high reputation, and being that I have very little experience with handguns, and no prolonged experience, I shouldn't make any irrational judgements. Even with that said, I'm still pretty biased toward German-made products. The only thing I know of they've produced that wasn't top of the line was Hitler.


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## loanwolf (Jan 14, 2008)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I don't wanna talk out of turn, but I've always held German engineering in higher regard than American engineering. That statement may be completely off when concerning firearms, but my experience with international engineering comes from cars. BMWs, MBs, Porsches, VWs, Audis...all put American companies to shame when it comes to build quality and reliability. But at the same time, Italians build the worst cars on the planet, yet Benelli, an Italian company, produces excellent shotguns. Smith & Wesson has a pretty high reputation, and being that I have very little experience with handguns, and no prolonged experience, I shouldn't make any irrational judgements. Even with that said, I'm still pretty biased toward German-made products. The only thing I know of they've produced that wasn't top of the line was Hitler.


Not to go OT here, but you consider Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati "the worst cars of the planet"?? You state that you have very little experience with handguns...let me tell you: You also have a lot to learn about cars...


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

loanwolf said:


> Not to go OT here, but you consider Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati "the worst cars of the planet"?? You state that you have very little experience with handguns...let me tell you: You also have a lot to learn about cars...


You fall into the 99.99% of the population that think because a car is expensive, it's nice. Sure, they look cool, and they're fast, and they get you laid in the blink of an eye. But ask anyone who's ever owned an Italian car. They will tell you something along these lines: "It's a badass car...500hp V12, handles like a dream, and sounds like a UFO taking off. But stuff breaks on them about every 500 miles, and they're only worth having if you've got someone following you in a Dodge to pick up all the nuts and bolts falling off."

Trust me bud...I know my cars. I know the ups and downs of about every car and motor out there. Italians are designers...they make things look real pretty. They do not build quality automotive setups. High horsepower in a 6.0-liter V12 means absolutely nothing. Is a 500-pound man benchpressing 500 pounds any more impressive than a 100-pound man benchpressing 100 pounds? No, it's not. 500hp or thereabouts out of 6.0 liters is not impressive. Nearly any of the VTEC or i-VTEC motors from Honda put out 100hp/liter, which in relation to their displacement, will beat down almost any normally aspirated engine out there. Yes, there are several Italian cars pushing over 1500bhp...and anything with that amount of power is impressive. But you're not paying for the power, you're paying for the image.

They handle well...big deal. They have super low centers of gravity, wide wheel bases, and stiff suspension. That's basic physics, and can be done with any car that can be fitted with certain parts.

They look cool...all that translates into a guaranteed death trap if you're in a wreck. And yes, with a car that fast, you will wreck.

Look man...Italian cars are cool. They're fast, stylish, and expensive. That doesn't make them reliable, steadfast, or quality pieces of equipment. And if you want to spend $250,000+ on a car to make it fast, or make it handle well, or make it look cool, you can take a lot of "average" street cars and do just that, while spending a lot less, and not having to retune or repair every couple of months. Now if you wanna spend $250,000+ just to say you have an Italian car and to get looks while you're driving around, like I said, you just want that image, and you're not very smart with your money. And if you think Porsche owners are smug, meet the ones driving Ferraris and Lambos.


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## Snowman (Jan 2, 2007)

American engineering is unmatched right now. The issue is not the engineering, not that we can't build them as well as this or that country. The issues are quality control and corporate bean counters looking at profitability. So Japan builds better cars right now, but it's not because the US is somehow not capable.


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## loanwolf (Jan 14, 2008)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> You fall into the 99.99% of the population that think because a car is expensive, it's nice. Sure, they look cool, and they're fast, and they get you laid in the blink of an eye. But ask anyone who's ever owned an Italian car. They will tell you something along these lines: "It's a badass car...500hp V12, handles like a dream, and sounds like a UFO taking off. But stuff breaks on them about every 500 miles, and they're only worth having if you've got someone following you in a Dodge to pick up all the nuts and bolts falling off."
> 
> Trust me bud...I know my cars. I know the ups and downs of about every car and motor out there. Italians are designers...they make things look real pretty. They do not build quality automotive setups. High horsepower in a 6.0-liter V12 means absolutely nothing. Is a 500-pound man benchpressing 500 pounds any more impressive than a 100-pound man benchpressing 100 pounds? No, it's not. 500hp or thereabouts out of 6.0 liters is not impressive. Nearly any of the VTEC or i-VTEC motors from Honda put out 100hp/liter, which in relation to their displacement, will beat down almost any normally aspirated engine out there. Yes, there are several Italian cars pushing over 1500bhp...and anything with that amount of power is impressive. But you're not paying for the power, you're paying for the image.
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound like you're speaking from an owner's perspective...let's leave it at that.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Snowman said:


> American engineering is unmatched right now. The issue is not the engineering, not that we can't build them as well as this or that country. The issues are quality control and corporate bean counters looking at profitability. So Japan builds better cars right now, but it's not because the US is somehow not capable.


If American companies could build as high quality of a car as Europeans or Japanese, then why don't they? It's simple...yes, they have the technology to do so, but they don't because they don't place a priority on it like the rest of the foreign car manufacturers. That just goes to show that Americans don't value a quality piece of engineering, so therefore they don't produce one. And why should they? Americans who are die-hard American car freaks don't wanna hear about how long their engine will last, or good gas mileage, or good emissions, or whatever. All they care about is horsepower and impressing the 16-year old girls at the drive-in movie. I'm not bashing anyone for buying an American-made vehicle. But there are plenty out there (mostly ********, which unfortunately we have too many around here) that say, "man I'd neh-ver buy a piece o' sh*t foreign Jap car...them things are just plain wussy. Real men drive trucks made in America. Ain't no thang better then sum American muscle!" The point is that when it comes to the important priorities of a vehicle, American companies do not keep up with the Swedes, Germans, or Japanese. Good gas mileage, high emissions standards, reliable build quality, excellent crash test ratings, etc...in the grand scheme of things, those are what matter most in building a quality, reliable automobile. Horsepower and looks don't mean jack when you're broken down on the side of the road. I'm not dogging on horsepower freaks...I love a fast car. But on a day-to-day basis, reliability is key.

HOWEVER, some American companies are making big steps. GM is doing great things with FLEXfuel, and they better be...they produce the biggest field of fuel-inefficient vehicles on the road. Ford is supposedly trying to make hydrogen fueling possible. Chrysler has their new lifetime powertrain warranty, which I would love to put to the test. Yes, there are some great American-built cars and trucks. And there are some poorly built foreign cars and trucks. Audis have stock DV problems. BMWs have rear end issues. Mitsubishi transmissions are ticking time bombs. But in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, American companies still fall short in build quality and reliability.



loanwolf said:


> Doesn't sound like you're speaking from an owner's perspective...let's leave it at that.


Nor will I ever be. Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a car that impresses high schoolers and the drive-thru girl at McDonald's is silly.

Guys we could argue this point for months. We all have our opinions, and they're not gonna change. I think we've hijacked this thread enough.


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## Snowman (Jan 2, 2007)

American engineers are the best out there. What the management types let them produce is another matter.

You think Flex Fuel will help GM with fuel economy?! Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline. FEWER miles per gallon. This is a liberal push that doesn't make sense. If it made sense it would be economical.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Ya'll are way off topic.. 

Get the Walther. I thought they were the same and got the SW(9 when I couldn't get my hands on a Walther. I had no intentions of buying a fullsize Walther later - when I bought the SW99...

BUt eventually... I started wanting the original... The Walther.

If U can get the P99 A/S now - just get it...


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## loanwolf (Jan 14, 2008)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> If American companies could build as high quality of a car as Europeans or Japanese, then why don't they? It's simple...yes, they have the technology to do so, but they don't because they don't place a priority on it like the rest of the foreign car manufacturers. That just goes to show that Americans don't value a quality piece of engineering, so therefore they don't produce one. And why should they? Americans who are die-hard American car freaks don't wanna hear about how long their engine will last, or good gas mileage, or good emissions, or whatever. All they care about is horsepower and impressing the 16-year old girls at the drive-in movie. I'm not bashing anyone for buying an American-made vehicle. But there are plenty out there (mostly ********, which unfortunately we have too many around here) that say, "man I'd neh-ver buy a piece o' sh*t foreign Jap car...them things are just plain wussy. Real men drive trucks made in America. Ain't no thang better then sum American muscle!" The point is that when it comes to the important priorities of a vehicle, American companies do not keep up with the Swedes, Germans, or Japanese. Good gas mileage, high emissions standards, reliable build quality, excellent crash test ratings, etc...in the grand scheme of things, those are what matter most in building a quality, reliable automobile. Horsepower and looks don't mean jack when you're broken down on the side of the road. I'm not dogging on horsepower freaks...I love a fast car. But on a day-to-day basis, reliability is key.
> 
> HOWEVER, some American companies are making big steps. GM is doing great things with FLEXfuel, and they better be...they produce the biggest field of fuel-inefficient vehicles on the road. Ford is supposedly trying to make hydrogen fueling possible. Chrysler has their new lifetime powertrain warranty, which I would love to put to the test. Yes, there are some great American-built cars and trucks. And there are some poorly built foreign cars and trucks. Audis have stock DV problems. BMWs have rear end issues. Mitsubishi transmissions are ticking time bombs. But in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, American companies still fall short in build quality and reliability.
> 
> ...


Like I said you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to cars...The main reason to buy a Ferrari is to impress high schoolers??

You do however have good taste in guns!


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

loanwolf said:


> Like I said you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to cars...The main reason to buy a Ferrari is to impress high schoolers??
> 
> You do however have good taste in guns!


If I did buy a Ferrari, it wouldn't be to impress high schoolers. What MY point is is that owners of Italian cars buy them for reasons other than myself. Sure, if you just wanna cruise an hour each Saturday, then they'd be fine. But they just don't last, and even though it's just my opinion, I couldn't spend that kind of money for anything that didn't last. And yes, I know a lot about cars. PM me and test me on my knowledge...I think I'll surprise you quite a bit. :smt023

I do have good taste in guns. Regardless of our car disagreements, I think we can all agree that purchasing a Walther P99 is a better choice than a Smith & Wesson SW99. And I will be getting a Benelli Supernova Tactical very shortly. :mrgreen: And even if Italians can't build cars, they sure can build a good shotty. Nobody can contest that.


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## cragrat (Jun 6, 2007)

*here is my thought on guns and cars*

first, i wanted the walther p99 in 9mm. i spent prob a year before i purchased either. if i could have found the walther i would have bought it. i finally found one and the dealer (gander mt. did i say that out loud) wanted $799 for it. in my opinion thats price gouging. so i found a brand new sw99 w/ tijicon sights at a gun show for $500 out the door. i still wqnt a p99 just because i am trying to get my hands on all walthers possible. pert of it is the name but i love the way they look, and shoot. somehow i shoot best with a glock 23 but i still keep wanting walthers. ANY HOW ponder this, is the sw99 going to hold/raise it's value more than the walther? i know what alot of the immediate answres will be but let me plead my case. i've tried to trade my sw99 at least 3-4 times on the p99 and get this EVERY TIME the dealer has talked ME out of it. now i'll never sell my sw99 ever! whenever i've tried to trade it the first thing said 100% of the time is "are you sure you really want to do that? that's a rare bird. possibly one of the best smith&wesson guns ever produced. you really should keep it. or it would make a great heirloom." i've even had a gun say he would trade me a brand new p99 9mm for my used sw99 even swap. that dealer told me to think about it for a while then decide. 
now my car rant. whoever said that american engineers don't produce quality machines compared to german engineering doesn't own either. they must be driving a toyota camry. i'm unbaised i love cars with a passion. i work on them have owned italian, german, japanese, and american. i'll by them if i like them knowing they will prob be a money pit. out of those countries i'll always regret selling my toyota pickup and my saturn. yeah thats right i said it a SATURN. i had a 2004 ion redline(that means it's supercharged) and it was bar none the most reliable car i've ever had. i always tinkered with it and when it was done it ran 19 lbs of boost and around 280 whp. i have never been beat in a race and being a saturn i was messed with alot. that little dude took porsches, all camaros and mustangs, and my greatest was i beat my brothers 400 hp vette in a quarter mile by one second. in conclusion 46,000 miles and only gas and oil, not one single problem. and if i perked any ears up it's still for sale for $12000 and i kept in really good shape. pm me if you want to see a video of it's sub 5 second zero to sixty or it's condition. the german and italian cars i had were worth it cause i bought them for a reason....to learn about cars and enjoy how they performed not however for their reliability. they were all electrical nightmares but when they were running good it was a true rush to drive them. thanks for listening.


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## loanwolf (Jan 14, 2008)

cragrat said:


> first, i wanted the walther p99 in 9mm. i spent prob a year before i purchased either. if i could have found the walther i would have bought it. i finally found one and the dealer (gander mt. did i say that out loud) wanted $799 for it. in my opinion thats price gouging. so i found a brand new sw99 w/ tijicon sights at a gun show for $500 out the door. i still wqnt a p99 just because i am trying to get my hands on all walthers possible. pert of it is the name but i love the way they look, and shoot. somehow i shoot best with a glock 23 but i still keep wanting walthers. ANY HOW ponder this, is the sw99 going to hold/raise it's value more than the walther? i know what alot of the immediate answres will be but let me plead my case. i've tried to trade my sw99 at least 3-4 times on the p99 and get this EVERY TIME the dealer has talked ME out of it. now i'll never sell my sw99 ever! whenever i've tried to trade it the first thing said 100% of the time is "are you sure you really want to do that? that's a rare bird. possibly one of the best smith&wesson guns ever produced. you really should keep it. or it would make a great heirloom." i've even had a gun say he would trade me a brand new p99 9mm for my used sw99 even swap. that dealer told me to think about it for a while then decide.
> now my car rant. whoever said that american engineers don't produce quality machines compared to german engineering doesn't own either. they must be driving a toyota camry. i'm unbaised i love cars with a passion. i work on them have owned italian, german, japanese, and american. i'll by them if i like them knowing they will prob be a money pit. out of those countries i'll always regret selling my toyota pickup and my saturn. yeah thats right i said it a SATURN. i had a 2004 ion redline(that means it's supercharged) and it was bar none the most reliable car i've ever had. i always tinkered with it and when it was done it ran 19 lbs of boost and around 280 whp. i have never been beat in a race and being a saturn i was messed with alot. that little dude took porsches, all camaros and mustangs, and my greatest was i beat my brothers 400 hp vette in a quarter mile by one second. in conclusion 46,000 miles and only gas and oil, not one single problem. and if i perked any ears up it's still for sale for $12000 and i kept in really good shape. pm me if you want to see a video of it's sub 5 second zero to sixty or it's condition. the german and italian cars i had were worth it cause i bought them for a reason....to learn about cars and enjoy how they performed not however for their reliability. they were all electrical nightmares but when they were running good it was a true rush to drive them. thanks for listening.


Congrats on beating all these exotic cars that are way inferior to your Saturn. Problem is: when you all drive home from the track, they drive in Ferraris, Porsches, Benzes and Corvettes and you get to go home in your Saturn ...:watching:

Let's get back to our guns...I think there is more sense to be seen in that...


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

My best friend always dogs on BMWs and other luxury/performance cars for reason. Apparently people with small peckers drive them. According to him, real men drive trucks. However, his truck is a piece. 2002 Dodge Dakota Sport...weak V6, 2WD that gets stuck on a flat road in rain, and has the worst transmission ever. He thinks the Cobalt SS is totally badass, then tried to rip on an Ion Redline one day. I informed him that they're the same car. He also favors a 350Z, but says he will never put a "Japanese made POS tire on his car." I don't get it. I run Toyo Proxe T1-Rs on mine and he thinks I'm a ricer for not using good American tires. I believe he also made a snyde foreign comment about a G35, then proceeded to gaze in awe at a 350Z right afterward. Discussing cars is something we do not do well, and you can't tell someone anything when they don't believe the straight up facts.

I will vouch for Saturns. Plenty of my friends own them, and they'll run 10 times out of 10, no questions asked. I personally think (and you all may disagree, which is fine) that you can tell how reliable an overall company is by seeing how many older models are still on the road. I can't tell you how many people I've heard raking Hondas over the coals for being pieces of crap, yet there are more old Hondas on the road than about any other make. 

How's this...take the sex appeal of a Lambo, the refinement of a BMW, the luxury of a Benz, the reliability and longevity of a Honda, the safety of a Volvo, the bombproof AWD of an STi, the gas mileage of a Corolla, the insurance of a Geo Metro, the exhaust tone of a 2JZ MKIV Supra, the aftermarket options of a Mustang, the projector cutoffs of a TSX, the aerodynamics of a 350Z, the 50/50 weight distribution of an RX-8, the horsepower of a McClaren F1, and the affordability of a Toyota Echo. I'd take it.

Did I forget anything?

edit: Yeah I did...sleeper effect of an SRT-4 with full stage 3 Mopar kit.


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## Silly (Nov 19, 2006)

*P99*

First. I'm not in the Walther section to read about cars.
Second. Buy a Sportbike and smoke almost every car on the street at a quarter of the price or more and the same amount of sex appeal.
Third. Buy a P99 instead of the SW. If you really want a SW, look at the M&P.

P.S. I work for an American Manufacturer and we produce the finest and most recognized products in our industry. We can engineer anything but the consumer is not going to pay for a bunch of crap they don't need. If you tried to compare our products to cars it would be like comparing a Beretta, another great Italian mfg, to a Hi-Point.


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## loanwolf (Jan 14, 2008)

Silly said:


> First. I'm not in the Walther section to read about cars.


Agreed. Let's find a Saturn forum and harass them about Walther firearms...

I picked the Walther P99 AS in 9mm because I wanted a 100% German produced firearm for my first weapon. 
For my next one...who knows....

Sorry to all for the hijack...got carried away responding to some unqualified statement about Italian sports cars....


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Silly said:


> Second. Buy a Sportbike and smoke almost every car on the street at a quarter of the price or more and the same amount of sex appeal.


That's my plan for this summer. I still haven't found one with air conditioning but I'm looking. :mrgreen:


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## Silly (Nov 19, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> That's my plan for this summer. I still haven't found one with air conditioning but I'm looking. :mrgreen:


100+ MPH keeps you cool enough.

gadgetguy...buy whichever you can afford. It won't be your last handgun, I guarantee it. :mrgreen:


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Silly said:


> 100+ MPH keeps you cool enough.


No it doesn't...I've gone 600mph in a 757 and I was burning up the entire time. Definitely gonna need some A/C. Lol...I'm looking at a 2004+ GSX-R600 and 750, 2005 R6 Raven, and 2004+ CBR600RR. Also considering a 2003 R6 Raven/red flames if the money is a bit short. Icon helmet, jacket, gloves, and pants, and a box of Trojan condoms for the drive-in. Can't be too risky nowadays.


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