# Winchester 9mm NATO Bulk Ammo May be Bad for Your Pistol......



## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

But ammo buyers need to be aware that not everything is as it seems and not all ammo is created equal. 
Winchester 9mm NATO ammo is the same as +P


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

that's not good. Winchester should have been more conspicuous about the fact that it is essentially +p ammo. I have a bunch of 38 special revolvers and two of those are rated +P, so I tend to be somewhat cautious when buying ammo to make sure I'm not purchasing something that I shouldn't use in the regular 38's. The price can sometimes trick you into buying something that is not for your weapon, which may be why no one else has bid on that item. Just a caution.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I think it depends on what gun you're shooting, and how much you shoot. NATO rounds are not exactly the same as SAAMI +P, but pretty close, so it is regarded as essentially the same. If you're shooting quality guns, like Glock, M&P, Sig, HK, Beretta, CZ, etc., your gun will take it. You may have to replace springs sooner than later if you're shooting a lot, but on the whole, as little as most civilians shoot, there should be no real problem. If you're using it to practice with your Ruger, Kel-Tec, or the like, you may run into some problems. 

The advantage with using this ammunition for practice is that you can essentially simulate shooting your defense cartridge at the cost of standard practice rounds, and for me that outweighs the negatives of "hurting" your gun. You're basically shooting your defense rounds for practice without spending the money.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Not having a pressure test barrel+ handy, I have to go by stated muzzle velocity for a bullet weight. Is 1200fps for 115gr from a 4" barrel +P?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

9mm Nato ammo is higher pressured than standard 9mm ammo? Who would of thunk it. I still don't believe it's that much hotter than standard WWB or S&B ammo and somewhat less than most +P ammo. The author of this article is desperate for a story in my opinion or packs a DB9.:watching:


9mm Nato ammo approx (36,500 psi)

Standard 9mm ammo approx (35,000 psi)

9mm +p ammo approx (38,500 psi)


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## OldManMontgomery (Nov 2, 2013)

According to "TM 43-0001-27, Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammunition FSC 1305" dated April 1994:

Page 12-5 shows the specifications for the "Cartridge, 9mm, Ball, NATO, M882". In summary, this page designates a 112 grain bullet, with an average chamber pressure of 31,175 psi and a maximum of 36,250 psi. This results - according to the manual - in a muzzle velocity of 1263 +/- 5 fps. One notes this round is authorized for use in the M9 (Beretta) pistol.

Just as a side note, page 12-3 shows the 'Cartridge, 9mm, Ball' (no 'M' designation). It is NOT authorized for use in the M9 pistol. The summary is a 115 grain bullet at 1125+/- 90 fps; with an average chamber pressure of 38,500 psi, maximum of 43,000 psi. 

According to SAAMI standards (available on line at SAAMI.org) the 9mm Luger round has a "Maximum Average Pressure" of 33,000 Copper Units of Pressure (CUP). The Maximum Probable Sample Mean - which is the maximum 'single' reading of a test lot of ammunition allowed - pressure is 35,700 CUP. No one seems to be able to decide how CUP relates to PSI. However, to be practical, unless these are reasonably interchangeable they are meaningless numbers. 

So it seems the NATO round is NOT over pressure according to SAAMI. However, the regular ball round is over pressure. It seems.

May I also point out the obvious? With all the lawsuits for product liability issues, what are the odds Winchester would produce and market to the general public a type of ammunition that is not correctly identified as to the pressure levels, AND might be damaging to the average person's firearm? I find that possibility rather remote.

As Spock would say, "Highly illogical".


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

All the NATO spec ammo I come across and have is 124 grain ball ammo as opposed to 112 or 115 grain. Interesting.


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## Water-Man (Apr 28, 2008)

Winchester NATO 124gr. FMJ is listed as having a velocity of 1140fps.


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