# Gun Rental - Bad idea?



## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

I've visited this range many times & brought friends & new shooters there. Glad I missed these events. Renting a gun to someone seems to be an easy way out for someone bent on suicide who doesn't already own a gun. The few dollars made on the rental doesn't seem worth the possible liability or the loss of business from families who may not want to expose themselves or their young children to such an event.

Man kills self at shooting range


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Well, a person can kill themselves in an automobile as well. My brother-in-law did just that, sadly. Does that mean it is a bad idea to rent automobiles?

In this particular instance, the article indicates that the individual had no difficulty acquiring a handgun previously. Is it reasonable to believe that if he was denied the convenience of renting a handgun, he would have said "Oh well" and given up the idea of suicide?

Those in favor of more gun laws often cite suicide as a reason for making it harder to own a handgun, and they include all suicides in their "gun violence" data. I would hate to see this same type of logic used to restrict or prohibit handgun rentals at private ranges.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pblanc said:


> *Well, a person can kill themselves in an automobile as well.* My brother-in-law did just that, sadly. Does that mean it is a bad idea to rent automobiles?
> 
> In this particular instance, the article indicates that the individual had no difficulty acquiring a handgun previously. Is it reasonable to believe that if he was denied the convenience of renting a handgun, he would have said "Oh well" and given up the idea of suicide?
> 
> Those in favor of more gun laws often cite suicide as a reason for making it harder to own a handgun, and they include all suicides in their "gun violence" data. I would hate to see this same type of logic used to restrict or prohibit handgun rentals at private ranges.


Bridges can do a pretty good job too. Same for a length of rope. Both are easily accessible Great post!


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

pblanc said:


> Well, a person can kill themselves in an automobile as well. My brother-in-law did just that, sadly. Does that mean it is a bad idea to rent automobiles?
> 
> In this particular instance, the article indicates that the individual had no difficulty acquiring a handgun previously. Is it reasonable to believe that if he was denied the convenience of renting a handgun, he would have said "Oh well" and given up the idea of suicide?
> 
> Those in favor of more gun laws often cite suicide as a reason for making it harder to own a handgun, and they include all suicides in their "gun violence" data. I would hate to see this same type of logic used to restrict or prohibit handgun rentals at private ranges.


Not quite as reliably or as quickly. My concern is more for the liability issue for the range. Of course there are other methods of suicide, but they won't hurt the shooting sports like this does.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

I'm sure someone will find an attorney who will try to make something out of this, but i don't see how the range can be held liable if they did all their normal procedures to evaluate the person renting the gun and renting the range time.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

win231 said:


> I've visited this range many times & brought friends & new shooters there. Glad I missed these events. Renting a gun to someone seems to be an easy way out for someone bent on suicide who doesn't already own a gun. The few dollars made on the rental doesn't seem worth the possible liability or the loss of business from families who may not want to expose themselves or their young children to such an event.
> 
> Man kills self at shooting range


Though range suicides are not uncommon, this one happened back in January 6, 2011 a little late showing up here. Any liability to the Gun Range has probably long been settled, so you should probably report this to us. What happened as far as litigation is concerned? I'm curious as to how you came by this story after six years. :watching:


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Craigh said:


> Though range suicides are not uncommon, this one happened back in January 6, 2011 a little late showing up here. Any liability to the Gun Range has probably long been settled, so you should probably report this to us. What happened as far as litigation is concerned? I'm curious as to how you came by this story after six years. :watching:


I saw a post about it on another forum; it didn't mention the date.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

win231 said:


> Not quite as reliably or as quickly. My concern is more for the liability issue for the range. Of course there are other methods of suicide, but they won't hurt the shooting sports like this does.


This will not hurt the shooting sports one way or the other......... They anti gun groups continue to use the same lame arguments for more gun control laws...... What has a negative effect on shooting sports are law makers that are anti gun........ We have to continue to do whatever we can to keeps such law makers out of a job.......


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

Spoons made me FAT. Maybe we should ban flatware and takeout?????


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Kennydale said:


> Spoons made me FAT. Maybe we should ban flatware and takeout?????


.

Maybe you are just short for your weight


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## therewolf (Jan 10, 2017)

Kennydale said:


> Spoons made me FAT. Maybe we should ban flatware and takeout?????


What you should do, if spoons made you fat, is go out to a restaurant, order a meal,

and commit suicide with a spoon. Undoubtedly everybody will point at you and say

"SEE? SEE? THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO ELIMINATE ALL RESTAURANTS, SUPERMARKETS, AND SILVERWARE!"

OR oh, well, there's always the fact that letting people with mental problems go untreated is a BAD IDEA.


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## wirenut (Dec 16, 2015)

at least here in Illinois, you cannot rent a firearm if you cannot own one.
One must have a F.O.I.D card from the Illinois State Police to buy or rent.
If you are hell bent on ending your life you will damn sure find a way...


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

And I bet they closed the range and people who didn't get their full hour got screwed.*

We've had several incidences of this taking place at a few ranges in the Northern Virginia area over the last two decades. Pretty much nothing can be done about it, short of stopping rentals all together. If someone is bent on killing themselves, they'll find a way. I well call one when I was in high school of a kid in another school close by who wrapped a laundry bag around is head, secured it around his neck, and ran a vacuum hose from a gas jet on the stove into the bag. He wrote two letter, one to his parents and one to his girl friend, then wrote a record of what he was experiencing as he died. I believe he was sixteen years old.


* Sarcasm intended.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

wirenut said:


> at least here in Illinois, you cannot rent a firearm if you cannot own one.
> One must have a F.O.I.D card from the Illinois State Police to buy or rent.
> If you are hell bent on ending your life you will damn sure find a way...


What's an F.O.I.D. card? Does that mean Firearms Owner Identification which is synonymous to a permit to purchase?


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

SouthernBoy said:


> What's an F.O.I.D. card? Does that mean Firearms Owner Identification which is synonymous to a permit to purchase?


Yes, that's what it is. Most of us live in one of the free states, not one of the socialist states like the Soviet Republiken Illinois, Kommunist State of California, or Sovereign Socialist Massachusetts. Imagine having to pay a fee to get some government issued card from the State Police just so you have permission to buy a firearm. Permission from a state police to have your Second Amendment rights trampled on. It makes my skin crawl, but it's how they expect to keep the murder rate so low in Chicago. 

It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. - George Washington


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Craigh said:


> Yes, that's what it is. Most of us live in one of the free states, not one of the socialist states like the Soviet Republiken Illinois, Kommunist State of California, or Sovereign Socialist Massachusetts. Imagine having to pay a fee to get some government issued card from the State Police just so you have permission to buy a firearm. Permission from a state police to have your Second Amendment rights trampled on. It makes my skin crawl, but it's how they expect to keep the murder rate so low in Chicago.
> 
> It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. - George Washington


Simple test for me. Would a state require application of a permit to allow citizens to speak and write publicly? If not, then there should be no requirement to insist upon this when the issue of firearms is the topic.


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## wirenut (Dec 16, 2015)

SouthernBoy said:


> What's an F.O.I.D. card? Does that mean Firearms Owner Identification which is synonymous to a permit to purchase?


The thing that ticks me off about a F.O.I.D card is that I have to pay a fee, get a background check by the state police and they still want more money to get a CC permit..


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Craigh said:


> Yes, that's what it is. Most of us live in one of the free states, not one of the socialist states like the Soviet Republiken Illinois, Kommunist State of California, or Sovereign Socialist Massachusetts. Imagine having to pay a fee to get some government issued card from the State Police just so you have permission to buy a firearm. Permission from a state police to have your Second Amendment rights trampled on. It makes my skin crawl, but it's how they expect to keep the murder rate so low in Chicago.
> 
> It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. - George Washington


Life is just too short to reside in one of the states you mentioned. Obviously, some choose to, so there must be some kind of a draw. What it is, is beyond me.


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## budrock56 (Feb 2, 2012)

In the past year and a half there has been a suicide in each of the two indoor ranges in our town. I am a member of one of those.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

To quote Archie Bunker " Would it make you feel better if he jumped off a roof?" Some one intent on taking their own life will do it by what ever means they have.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Craigh said:


> Yes, that's what it is. Most of us live in one of the free states, not one of the socialist states like the Soviet Republiken Illinois, Kommunist State of California, or Sovereign Socialist Massachusetts. Imagine having to pay a fee to get some government issued card from the State Police just so you have permission to buy a firearm. Permission from a state police to have your Second Amendment rights trampled on. It makes my skin crawl, but it's how they expect to keep the murder rate so low in Chicago.
> 
> It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. - George Washington


Could you please add NYS ,lol. NYS is not that bad if you chop off NYC


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## therewolf (Jan 10, 2017)

IMHO, until we are willing to address Depression and mental illness seriously, we should

write off suicides. Let's not wishy-wash and dilly-dally, with half-assed feel good measures

about suicide prevention. Let's either totally ignore it, or DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

therewolf said:


> IMHO, until we are willing to address Depression and mental illness seriously, we should
> 
> write off suicides. Let's not wishy-wash and dilly-dally, with half-assed feel good measures
> 
> about suicide prevention. Let's either totally ignore it, or DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


The politicians don't want to do anything about mental illness because it is a multi billion dollar a year industry. Think about all the pharmaceutical companies marketing anti depression drugs, all the psychiatrists and psychotherapists making their livings off the mentally ill, and all the private institutions treating mentally ill patients. The real issue is that the politicians don't want the states to have to pay for their mentally ill residents. States have been closing down inpatient mental health facilities for the past 40 years because they are too expensive to operate.

The industry has come up with this premise that the non violent mentally ill are better served by being in community group homes under medicated conditions as outpatients rather than being institutionalized. Well guess what, nobody wants those group homes in their neighborhoods, so when patients are turned out of institutional facilities, they often end up in the street or living in public housing. I worked in the public housing industry and you would be surprised how many people who probably should be institutionalized live in public housing because they have no income and can't get jobs.

It's a problem that society does not want to deal with.


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

If at all possible I like to test drive a car before buying. I could drive it over a cliff but I won't. Someone might but you have to take that chance to sell it. Same with gun ranges. I prefer to rent something before buying, especially a carry gun. Sometimes I'll rent something just for the fun of it even if I have no practical use for it or can't afford to buy it. There are other businesses where I could walk in & buy or rent something that could kill me but they have to take that chance or the .0001% will be dictating the rules. If I remember they may have done a background check on me before I started using my local range. It was a good 30 minutes after giving them my drivers license before they let me in to shoot. Now I just give them my DL & go in, they know me.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

wirenut said:


> The thing that ticks me off about a F.O.I.D card is that I have to pay a fee, get a background check by the state police and they still want more money to get a CC permit..


Is getting your FOID a permanent thing or does it have to be renewed periodically? And I suspect you must have one and be prepared to show it when purchasing a firearm from an FFL. So what about private sales in your state? How are they addressed?


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## therewolf (Jan 10, 2017)

RK3369 said:


> It's a problem that society does not want to deal with.


GOOD! You just gave us the answer we need.

From now on we ignore suicides.

We've all got better things to do.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

therewolf said:


> GOOD! You just gave us the answer we need.
> 
> From now on we ignore suicides.
> 
> We've all got better things to do.


works for me. If someone wants to kill themselves, who am I to interfere? I say "go for it".


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