# Less-Lethal Home Defense?



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Standard Wasp and Hornet Killer...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=6650350

What do you think??? I'm looking it up.

JeffWard

PS can someone fix my spelling in the thread title... LOL


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

Interesting concept, it does spray farther...no clue as to its effectiveness for self defense, however. I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe it's more effective than pepper spray, though. One of the local campus police officers I've talked to is ex-Army...his training in the military and as a cop has required him to be subjected to both pepper spray and tear gas. From what he told me, pepper spray is an evil, horrible substance that'll leave you in bad shape, and far worse than tear gas...I'm having a hard time buying that it could be beat by hornet spray.

KG

EDIT:


Wikipedia said:


> Link
> Active ingredients of many household insecticides include permethrin and tetramethrin, which act on the nervous system of insects and arachnids.
> Bug sprays should be used in well ventilated areas only, as the chemicals contained in the aerosol and most insecticides can be harmful or deadly to humans and pets. All insecticide products including solids, baits and bait traps should be applied such that they are out of reach of wildlife, pets and children.


Well, that sounds promising, but it still doesn't sounds like it would immediately incapacitate an attacker...


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

Here's the MSDS sheet for the stuff I buy (to kill wasps):
http://whatsinproducts.com/informat...18&PHPSESSID=5c08b61628cdb345ee56204f1165edf3

It's mostly mineral spirits and glycol. The health rating is a 1, so not really a big deal, I've gotten it on me and in my eyes before. I can't say it did anything in the couple minutes it took to get to the sink and wash it off. I suppose the shock of getting sprayed would be more a momentary distraction than a deterrent.

Now brake cleaner in the eyes is another story. You want that shit out *right now!*. It stings like nothing else I've ever experienced.


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## thelonerang3r (Jul 30, 2009)

Winchester Break Free Powder Blast is pretty bad too. Found out the hard way on a windy day


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

I think I'll stick with the home defense that goes BANG instead of Pssssssssss! Less than lethal home defense is just begging to either get robbed again, or get sued.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

zhurdan said:


> Less than lethal home defense is just begging to either get robbed again, or get sued.


or both


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

I imagine a direct spray to the face would ruin somebody's day, I recently sprayed a wasp nest and it was soaked in 1-2 seconds. It's not something that I would typically plan to resort to for self defense, also, the label on the can specifically states... "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling".


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## twomode (Jun 7, 2009)

Less than lethal force, for less than lethal self defense. This would be an interesting discussion. Bug spray with permethrin? I spray my house/yard annually with the stuff with no harmful effects. Doubt I'd use it for SD. 

Anyway, what ARE your thoughts on matching force with force? A drunk party guest starts throwing punches? Argument with a belligerent neighbor takes a turn? A menacing dog?


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

twomode said:


> Less than lethal force, for less than lethal self defense. This would be an interesting discussion. Bug spray with permethrin? I spray my house/yard annually with the stuff with no harmful effects. Doubt I'd use it for SD.
> 
> Anyway, what ARE your thoughts on matching force with force? A drunk party guest starts throwing punches? Argument with a belligerent neighbor takes a turn? A menacing dog?


Is anyone really going to spray down a drunk party guest with wasp spray? That's not really home defense anyways. If you invite someone into your home, you've invited the dangers associated with them until you ask them to leave. Now, I simply wouldn't hang out with someone, let alone invite them to my home if they couldn't hold their alcohol. There's just too many risks associated with doing so.

If a belligerent neighbor kicks in my door because my grass clippings blew onto his driveway... he's gonna meet the same end as a hardened criminal kicking in my door. The key point here is, if they're attacking, so am I.

As for a dog, why do people think it's all that hard to defend yourself from a dog? I've been attacked by dogs twice over my lifetime. First time was a Doberman when I was 10. It got me good. Right up until I gouged it's eye out. The second time was some mutt. It took a boot heel to the jaw on it's way in. Just stay calm and you can get a dog off you in short order. Now, two dogs at the same time... hell, I'd panic! hehehe.

I'm wouldn't want to mace or bug spray anyone anymore than I'd want to have to shoot someone, but I make a good neighbor, I don't have drunk a$$hole friends, and I already went around the neighborhood and bit all the dogs to let them know who's boss. (kidding on that last one of course).

Not to mention, in todays litigious society, as unpecador said... the can does say "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling".


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## twomode (Jun 7, 2009)

That's my point zhurdan, your neighbor is loaded, the big fat weekend lawnmower warrior. Everyone around knows he's an 
a-hole, and he's got a big mouth to boot. You and he have had words before, and your other neighbors think you're right, the guy needs a good a$$kicking. You've said given the opportunity, you'd gladly do it. In spite of the fact your wife likes his wife, a tortured woman. Maybe even a suspected battered woman. And they've been at it all afternoon. 

Once again, you've had to say something, even if only for your own peace of mind. Next thing you know, you're eating dinner, he's on your porch, swearing to high heavan he want's a piece of you, and starts kicking and trying to open your front door. What do you do? 

I'm not trying to start any sh!t here, but can you still say " I shoot him through the door!" 

You have a small gathering of friends, your work buddy says "Me and Gus are going out that night, do you mind if he comes along?" Of course you say, I trust YOU. Gus is a big, body building sob, who thinks all women should worship his gym regimen. He totally offends someone's wife, you say "Gus, it's time for you to go." You're trying to keep the peace, keep things low-key so it doesn't spoil your party. Gus sucker punches you or someone else. What do you do? 

This is an open, honest attempt at a discussion. Do not read anything into it that can't be defended because you can't hear my voice, or observe my body language. Something that frequently happens online.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

twomode said:


> That's my point zhurdan, your neighbor is loaded, the big fat weekend lawnmower warrior. Everyone around knows he's an
> a-hole, and he's got a big mouth to boot. You and he have had words before, and your other neighbors think you're right, the guy needs a good a$$kicking. You've said given the opportunity, you'd gladly do it. In spite of the fact your wife likes his wife, a tortured woman. Maybe even a suspected battered woman. And they've been at it all afternoon.
> 
> Once again, you've had to say something, even if only for your own peace of mind. Next thing you know, you're eating dinner, he's on your porch, swearing to high heavan he want's a piece of you, and starts kicking and trying to open your front door. What do you do?
> ...


Internet discussions are hard to meter simply based on what you pointed out about body language, but I'll try.

First, this has a gigantic "hypothetical" sticker on it (as I actually never said/did any of those things you posted) hehe.

Second, if the bad ass neighbor is kicking in my door, I'll tell the wife to call the police. If he get's thru the door, I have to assume, as would anyone, that he's not there to borrow a cup of sugar. If I were to allow big bag lawnmower boy to incapacitate me in his rage over the grass clippings, what's he gonna do to my wife? He's already exhibited that he has no respect for the law or personal property. What does that say about his respect for a persons... well.. person? It'd probably go like this..

*door kick*
Dogs go nuts
Wife goes nuts then is told to go to the bedroom and call the police.
I finish pissing my pants, then draw.
If he makes it thru the door, he'll get a warning, and then he'll get some hot lead.

Just because the guy is my neighbor doesn't make his intrusion into my home any less illegal.

As for Gus, if I'm out at a bar, I won't have a weapon anyways, but I do have a pretty hard head, so I hope for his sake that he knocks me out. I wouldn't hesitate to put a bar stool over his face if he hit me, nor would I hesitate to do the same if he was out of line and punched someone who didn't deserve it. Actually, thinking about it, I'd probably just get up and leave. I wouldn't want any part of it if the assault were on me, but I'd probably (and have in the past, not my friend, but some random bar idiot) try to reduce any collateral damage by teaming up on their drunk ass. I generally don't go places where people don't know my name. Gus would ultimately have a bad day. Bars are breeding grounds for idiotic behavior. They're also great places to watch football and unwind with friends. Guns have no place in a bar, nor does fighting for that matter. My two good friends actually own a bar here in town, and we go there to watch football, MMA, or whatever is on pay per view. The owner and I have handled more than a few ruffians. I may not look like much, but I know where to put the hurt when the time comes. Most times, it's ended up in a skinned up nose for the idiot on the ground along with a bruised ego, and asking them nicely to leave. There's only been a few times where the police have even been asked to get involved.(that involved a knife)

People can generally be "handled" with the proper numbers, and I guess that's the key. I tend not to piss people off, in fact, I'm fairly likable (not lickable). I try to only hang out in low threat, friendly places. Solves most problems. Oh, and I don't like Gus... or anyone like him, so we wouldn't hang out.


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

JeffWard said:


> Standard Wasp and Hornet Killer...
> 
> http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=6650350
> 
> ...


I love that stuff. I use it on wasps ,spiders,birds and squrriels or anything I can't shoot.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

If you break into my home with us here I assure you, you will be sprayed with lead.


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## redpenguin01 (Apr 16, 2009)

Yeah,a bad scenerio would be if you had your pistol and an unarmed man is trying to fight you. Personally, I've been carrying a can of Fox Mace with me lately when I carry my pistol. I don't really know how effective a big ass can of bug spray would be aside from just around the house. Plus, anyone who has used a spray in self-defense knows that stuff is going to get all over them as well. I don't know if I want that stuff coming back in my eyes and lungs.

Stick with a little 2oz can of Fox Mace.. 5.3million SHU, 2-3 times hotter than other police sprays on the market. I highly recommend this brand to anyone.. and get the fliptop models with either the 'stream' or 'cone' spray-type. :smt023
http://www.foxlabs.com/pepperspray.shtml


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## jc27310 (Dec 14, 2008)

hmm, forgetting about the alarm, dog, firearms.... I think I'd be happier to grab a 9 iron or a sand-wedge (shorter shaft for a swing indoors, and a nice lofted edge to clip the skull!)

maybe I'll just go all "Colonel Mustard" on them


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## GySgt1811 (Jul 4, 2009)

In the conservatory.


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