# Guns & Ammo Handgun of the year



## drycreek (Jul 17, 2021)

Guns and Ammo has chosen the Taurus GX4 as the handgun of the year for 2022 according to an email I received this morning. I can’t post a link from my iPad, but I’m sure it can be found at Guns and Ammo’s website. There is some information in there that might mitigate some of the concerns about warranty work as well as quality of manufacturing. Maybe Shipwreck can find it and post it in the interest of education.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I saw that mentioned on another gun forum yesterday. Many of those replies on that forum pointed out that Taurus buys a lot of ads in that magazine....

Taurus being the gun of the year - that is an oxymoron IMHO....

I am the wrong guy to ask anything about Taurus, and I always debate whether or not to jump into a Taurus topic... . As most of the regulars here know, I hate Taurus with a passion. And, what I say will never change either. But, since you mentioned my name in this thread, I will go ahead and say it....

In the past, I have posted detailed stories to back up what I am saying... The company has created a dangerous product in the past, and people have died from it. Innocent people on more than 1 occasion have died. The company even fought some of the lawsuits, but a news story (one I previously posted) reported that an executive stated (in a deposition) that the company knew their product could go off without the trigger being pulled, yet they still sold the product. In some instances, one needn't even drop the gun - they sometimes just went off on its own.

Lawsuits were eventually settled, and a recall of sorts was later done. Taurus couldn't even get that right. At the time, all the gun forums were full of posts about people getting screwed on the replacement guns that Taurus owners were giving in place of what they had originally purchased. There are also STILL hundreds of thousands of unrecalled Taurus guns sitting around America at the present time... Dangerous guns that no one ever sent back (previously posted a news story about that too)...

Even after that settlement here in the USA, Taurus continued to fight the fight in Brazil. In the past, I have posted a story that showed a previous Brazilian law required Brazilian law enforcement to use guns made in Brazil. I believe this requirement has since changed, but the news story was from the time period of the police dealing with their own weapons being deadly to themselves... It had lots of interviews and information of how these dangerous guns were affecting thousands of law enforcement officers... Many of whom were shot with their own weapons because the weapon went off on its own. They didn't want these guns, but were forced to use them. One officer even made a video of a Taurus going off as he shook the gun, over and over. That finally brought some attention to the issue there... There are videos on YouTube to show the dangerousness of these guns too. Despite this, Taurus continued to fight that fight in Brazil for a long time.

I have also previously posted close to 20 years of quotes from the rotating door of Taurus CEOs - how their "quality would improve," but nothing ever changed.

Also, go read the BBB reviews of Taurus on the BBB page. I have previously reposted many of the reports on there. It's like carbon copies of the same stories of horrendous customer service from 15-20 years ago. Nothing has changed. Nothing. The worst case scenario is when people still send in their broken gun multiple times, and Taurus sends it right back untouched. Yes - they do that - MULTIPLE TIMES. I've even seen this reported on gun forums in the past as well.

Is Taurus today better than the Taurus of the last 15-20+ years? Maybe. But I would not give a nickel to a company that has treated its customers that way, and a company that knowingly made a dangerous product that ACTUALLY killed people on multiple occasions. Just that issue alone negates my support for such a company, no matter what they are making currently. They could make liquid gold that is better than sliced bread - I will not give a penny to that company anymore. What happened is criminal, IMHO.

I generally stay out of any topic that involves Taurus, because I can't hold my tongue if I get involved. Gun of the year? From Taurus? Wow. I'm going to stop laughing now.

Also, it is interesting - and I've said this dozens of times on many gun forums... Why is it that Taurus owners treat the gun like a religion. They will go to the ends of the earth to argue that their cheap Taurus is as good as anything else. Disagree - and you are a "hater." Either you don't have the right to complain, because you haven't owned one. Or, if ya did - you don't have the right to complain because you haven't owned one recently - despite the previous debacle of the 1st one. Or, when someone who has owned several posts a nightmare story - the Taurus fanatics just ignore that guy's posts...

I love Beretta. I have owned 41 or 42 of them over the years (I forget now). I am a Beretta fanatic. They suck at the present time. Yes, I said it... Many of their products they currently make have terrible quality controls... And their customer service is currently in the toilet. If someone wants to post a thread about Berettas that is negative - I don't care. It's true... But a Taurus fan seeing a negative post about Taurus - wow, look out.

Anyway - sorry - Rant off. I've made this post long enough, and I'm not going to go back and repost all the articles I referred to. They are already on this forum. In fact, there are much more negative news stories about the company that I have previously posted than even I currently remember.

Enjoy your Taurus, if you are an owner. But my life is worth more than a Taurus. And, my ethics and principles is worth more than one too, after what they have previously done. Why would I give them a penny of my hard earned money?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> I saw that mentioned on another gun forum yesterday. Many of those replies on that forum pointed out that Taurus buys a lot of ads in that magazine....
> 
> Taurus being the gun of the year - that is an oxymoron IMHO....
> 
> ...


NO, YOU DA MAN!


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## drycreek (Jul 17, 2021)

Ship, why don’t you stop being shy and tell us what you really think ,  

I guess I missed all of the stuff you talked about except for your posts here, and I haven’t been on this forum that long. When I last looked, this is still America, (although not the one I grew up in), and you have every right to your opinion. 

To be fair, I only own two Taurus guns, a .22 mag double action revolver which has been flawless, and the GX4, which has also been flawless. I don’t like it as well as my Shield Plus, but I do like it and sometimes carry it. G&A is not alone in giving it good reviews though, every review I’ve seen was good.

As to the company…..I’ll just say this. I drive Fords, always have, always will. That said, the F 250s and F 350s have exibited a phenomenon called “the death wobble” where you hit a rough spot at highway speed and almost lose control of the vehicle. Ford continues to replace the faulty parts under warranty with OEM parts…..which DOES NOT fix the problem. They also continue to ignore and deny. I point this out just to say that large companies are mostly run by lawyers who protect the bottom line. Doesn’t make it right, but we spend our money where we choose and that’s the only vote consumers get. I still buy Fords because in my mind they are head and shoulders above Chevy and Dodge. My two cents.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> I saw that mentioned on another gun forum yesterday. *Many of those replies on that forum pointed out that Taurus buys a lot of ads in that magazine....*
> 
> Taurus being the gun of the year - that is an oxymoron IMHO....
> 
> I am the wrong guy to ask anything about Taurus, and I always debate whether or not to jump into a Taurus topic... . As most of the regulars here know, I hate Taurus with a passion. And, what I say will never change either. But, since you mentioned my name in this thread, I will go ahead and say it....


Myself, and for that very same reason take those "Gun of the year" articles with a grain of salt. Even in "The American Rifleman". I don't hate Taurus products as they are inanimate objects. Because of all their problems in the past I would just never buy, trust one or recommend them to others. I'm a firm believer that you don't get something for nothing. Cheaply made products are cheaply made products. In order to manufacture something cheaper somethings got to give. Just like Harbor Freight Tools. You will not see too many if any of their products in professional mechanics' toolbox. It's the same with guns except with guns you're buying a product that your life may depend on some day. The last thing that you'd want is for it to fail at the worst possible time. It could be something as simple as a roll pin breaking and jamming up the gun.

Sure there are some people who love to claim that they've put thousands of rounds through their cheaply made gun unaware that it may now be at the point of failure. Whereas another gun from a reputable manufacturer could go thousands of rounds more before something fails. I've learned my lesson buying reproduction car parts from foreign manufacturers. They either don't last as long or don't fit due to poor quality steel, manufacturing techniques or both. Being that they were antique cars I really had no choice and I would replace them once I found New Old Stock (NOS) parts. Fortunately none of those cheaply made parts were brake or suspension parts of which there can be no compromise. Just as with guns if your life may depend on it there should be no compromise. End of my rant.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

drycreek said:


> Ship, why don’t you stop being shy and tell us what you really think ,
> 
> I guess I missed all of the stuff you talked about except for your posts here, and I haven’t been on this forum that long. When I last looked, this is still America, (although not the one I grew up in), and you have every right to your opinion.
> 
> ...


Myself I've always driven Chevy trucks not because they were any better than the other manufacturers, they aren't. They all make a good truck that if taken care of should serve you well. Over the years I've found that Chevy's are easier to work on and you'll find more Chevy engines and drivetrains in hot rods than Ford or Dodge. More power to you if you love Fords. Diesels are another story until the Druramax came along GM made one of the lousiest Diesel engines available in a 3/4-1 ton truck. Both under powered and troublesome. Arguably Dodge with their Cummins engine is the best Diesel engine available for longevity and durability. Until the Powerstroke came along Ford Diesels were made by Navistar a division of International. GM made their own Diesels for its cars and pick ups. But you can't compare vehicles from the "Big Three" with guns. Guns are small there are a lot fewer reciprocating parts and are under extreme pressures when fired. If one of those few parts breaks the gun could fail putting your life in jeopardy or at the very least you could risk possible injury. My two cents.


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

I guess that why I don’t own one single Taurus I like living


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Javbike said:


> I guess that why I don’t own one single Taurus I like living


Unless we're in law enforcement or live in a very dangerous part of a town or city. The chances are very high that none of us will be ever be faced in a life or death situation where we have to shoot someone. We can all thank God for that. But if the need ever does arise it just makes sense to have a product that hasn't had such a spotty reputation. It's just like wearing seat belts or putting on a life preserver while boating. Most of us will go through life never having an accident.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Arizona Desertman said:


> But if the need ever does arise it just makes sense to have a product that hasn't had such a spotty reputation.


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## drycreek (Jul 17, 2021)

Arizona Desertman said:


> Myself I've always driven Chevy trucks not because they were any better than the other manufacturers, they aren't. They all make a good truck that if taken care of should serve you well. Over the years I've found that Chevy's are easier to work on and you'll find more Chevy engines and drivetrains in hot rods than Ford or Dodge. More power to you if you love Fords. Diesels are another story until the Druramax came along GM made one of the lousiest Diesel engines available in a 3/4-1 ton truck. Both under powered and troublesome. Arguably Dodge with their Cummins engine is the best Diesel engine available for longevity and durability. Until the Powerstroke came along Ford Diesels were made by Navistar a division of International. GM made their own Diesels for its cars and pick ups. But you can't compare vehicles from the "Big Three" with guns. Guns are small there are a lot fewer reciprocating parts and are under extreme pressures when fired. If one of those few parts breaks the gun could fail putting your life in jeopardy or at the very least you could risk possible injury. My two cents.


Not arguing that guns are compared to trucks, just pointing out that big companies are run by lawyers as much as CEOs. The comparison was the warranty policies and the fact that neither company would admit the problems. If in fact Taurus does not, shame on them, but if we boycott every company we don’t like then we will have to give up Little Debbie (anti gun and hunting) oatmeal cream pies, and I’m just not ready to do that. I’m not even gonna try.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

drycreek said:


> Not arguing that guns are compared to trucks, just pointing out that big companies are run by lawyers as much as CEOs. The comparison was the warranty policies and the fact that neither company would admit the problems. If in fact Taurus does not, shame on them, but if we boycott every company we don’t like then we will have to give up Little Debbie (anti gun and hunting) oatmeal cream pies, and I’m just not ready to do that. I’m not even gonna try.


Go do some research. What Taurus did is NOT the same at all...

I get that boycotts are often counter productive. But in this case - wow. Someone should have gone to prison IMHO.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

drycreek said:


> Not arguing that guns are compared to trucks, just pointing out that big companies are run by lawyers as much as CEOs. The comparison was the warranty policies and the fact that neither company would admit the problems. If in fact Taurus does not, shame on them, but if we boycott every company we don’t like then we will have to give up Little Debbie (anti gun and hunting) oatmeal cream pies, and I’m just not ready to do that. I’m not even gonna try.


Of course companies are not going to admit any problems with their products, especially when they're subject to a lawsuit. Ford never admitted problems with the Pinto yet paid out millions in damages. They also paid millions in lobbying congress to defeat safety legislation that was being proposed at the time. Chevy never admitted that the Vega was a piece of shit from the get go yet stopped production. I fail to see your point?

As far as Taurus goes I've been to a lot of different gun stores that sell their products. My friend manages one of them. Of all the guns they sell Taurus has had the most complaints and brought back for returns out of all the guns they sell. Even if it's 10 out of 100 compared to the others that are maybe 1 out of 100. Of course those may not be exact figures but I'm using it to prove my point. In fact my friend wanted to stop selling them all together or accepting them in trade. But his hands were tied and the owner refused. Probably because there will always be a market for cheaply made guns. Especially amongst buyers that can't tell the difference between a Taurus, and a Glock or even a high end 1911. Just like there are those who can't tell the difference between Harbor Freight tools and Snap On's.

I'm not advocating that anyone boycott Taurus products and I'd hate to see them go out of business and many people would become unemployed as there is a market for them and people are buying them. Just as people are buying Harbor Freight Tools. They do fill a niche. But I can't in good conscience recommend that people especially first time gun owners from buying them for the reasons I've explained in my Post #5.


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

Arizona Desertman said:


> Of course companies are not going to admit any problems with their products, especially when they're subject to a lawsuit. Ford never admitted problems with the Pinto yet paid out millions in damages. They also paid millions in lobbying congress to defeat safety legislation that was being proposed at the time. Chevy never admitted that the Vega was a piece of shit from the get go yet stopped production. I fail to see your point?
> 
> As far as Taurus goes I've been to a lot of different gun stores that sell their products. My friend manages one of them. Of all the guns they sell Taurus has had the most complaints and brought back for returns out of all the guns they sell. Even if it's 10 out of 100 compared to the others that are maybe 1 out of 100. Of course those may not be exact figures but I'm using it to prove my point. In fact my friend wanted to stop selling them all together or accepting them in trade. But his hands were tied and the owner refused. Probably because there will always be a market for cheaply made guns. Especially amongst buyers that can't tell the difference between a Taurus, and a Glock or even a high end 1911. Just like there are those who can't tell the difference between Harbor Freight tools and Snap On's.
> 
> I'm not advocating that anyone boycott Taurus products and I'd hate to see them go out of business and many people would become unemployed as there is a market for them and people are buying them. Just as people are buying Harbor Freight Tools. They do fill a niche. But I can't in good conscience recommend that people especially first time gun owners from buying them for the reasons I've explained in my Post #5.


Well said


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Javbike said:


> Well said


Thank you!!


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

There are way to many other gun manufactures that will back their products 110% if there is problem. I have only ever had trouble with one firearm and it was so frustrating and time consuming. It was a savage .17HMR I bought new not an expensive model just something to shoot while at the range and maybe a backyard varmint. No matter what I did it would end up shooting like 5 MOA. Long story short Savage more than made it right. I have no desire to take a chance on a taurus firearm too many other good companies, S&W, Glock, Ruger, Colt, IWI, ect....


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## drycreek (Jul 17, 2021)

Guys, I’m not trying to sell you a Taurus, I was just pointing out that the particular pistol I am talking about gets good reviews from everyone who tests it. That’s all ! Arizona, if you fail to see my point you must be tripping over your reading glasses. Hell, you made my point with the Pinto and the Vega !

I have zero affiliation with Taurus nor anything connected with them. I just hapen to own two of them that have served my purposes. If you don’t want one, then don’t buy one. It pretty simple. My OP was simply to see if the link to the article could get posted so everyone could see it and make their own choices. Evidently that is not allowed here.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

drycreek said:


> Guys, I’m not trying to sell you a Taurus, I was just pointing out that the particular pistol I am talking about gets good reviews from everyone who tests it. That’s all ! Arizona, if you fail to see my point you must be tripping over your reading glasses. Hell, you made my point with the Pinto and the Vega !
> 
> I have zero affiliation with Taurus nor anything connected with them. I just hapen to own two of them that have served my purposes. If you don’t want one, then don’t buy one. It pretty simple. My OP was simply to see if the link to the article could get posted so everyone could see it and make their own choices. Evidently that is not allowed here.


No, posting links are fine...

I just think Taurus is a trainwreck. It is hilarious to me that they are the gun of the year with their history.

You mentioned my name, and I couldn't resist. I try to avoid Taurus threads because I have nothing good to say.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

drycreek said:


> Guys, I’m not trying to sell you a Taurus, I was just pointing out that the particular pistol I am talking about gets good reviews from everyone who tests it. That’s all ! Arizona, if you fail to see my point you must be tripping over your reading glasses. Hell, you made my point with the Pinto and the Vega !
> 
> I have zero affiliation with Taurus nor anything connected with them. I just hapen to own two of them that have served my purposes. If you don’t want one, then don’t buy one. It pretty simple. My OP was simply to see if the link to the article could get posted so everyone could see it and make their own choices. Evidently that is not allowed here.


I did see your point apparently you failed to see mine. Maybe it's you who's tripping over your reading glasses?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I think this thread has drifted, and I played a part in that myself...


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