# need a Custom Revolver to be made.



## Nuclearpanduh

Hello all! 

I am looking for a custom revolver to be made. I have a couple concept pictures for it i will link. it is to be a .357 6" barrel 6-8 round cylinder. If anyone knows a good gunsmith please let me know or send me an email so we can start talking about pricing.

here are some links

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/Spardaa/gun/1351854780-diamondback-357.png

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/Spardaa/gun/Diamond_back_357.png

Thanks
Nuke


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## Bob Wright

Have you tried Mattel Toys?

Or you can just wait fourteen years until the company that makes it is formed.

Bob Wright


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## Bob Wright

Your are kidding, right?

Bob Wright


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## VAMarine

Ahhh hell, I'll play.

What you could do is loose the side way opening and go with an Uberti top break in .38spcl or .45Colt or a Ruger GP100 and send the base gun into Gemini Customs, make sure to get the cylinder cut for moon clips.

Maybe the S&W TR8, that got a rail and holds 8rds of .357 mag. 

Loose the "barrel shroud", for what appears to be a weight on the lower barrel you will need some mill work done or a rail to be attached under it, the Ruger has a beefier barrel that might support additional welding and milling...but a slicked up top break would look pretty cool, but would be single action only. Unless you find a double action top break.


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## Steve M1911A1

VAMarine beat me to it.
To achieve the quick reload you seem to want, any currently made revolver can be modified to use some sort of full-moon clip, pre-loaded with ammunition. (You'd probably need custom-made clips too, of course.) Certainly, even custom-made clips would be cheaper to replace than entire cylinders. (Yes, you will lose a few.)
The twist-to-open feature seems unnecessary, overly complex, and weaker than the S&W-style, crane-hinged cylinder that locks at both ends. (A top-break revolver would definitely be much weaker too, by the way.)
Unless you are wedded to the twist-open and replacement-cylinder gimmicks, I suggest that there are better, stronger, and much cheaper ways to achieve your apparent objective.


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## Nuclearpanduh

VAMarine,

Thank you for the information you have been very insightful. I Will be heading your advice and looking deeper into it so i can have this revolver built. If you have any other suggestions please let me know  thanks allot.


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## Nuclearpanduh

Mr. Wright,

While I understand you do not share my enthusiasm for having this revolver made your criticism is unnecessary. I came to this forum looking for advice on building a custom revolver and VAMarine & SteaveM1911A have provided me with great ideas to get my CUSTOM piece made. Thank you for your input though.

Nuke


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## Nuclearpanduh

Steve, 

Thank you for your advice you and VA have added great input. I will be looking into what you have said. Would you by chance know of a person i can contact to get started on this little project of mine??

Thank you
Nuke


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## Steve M1911A1

Nuclearpanduh said:


> Steve...Would you by chance know of a person i can contact to get started on this little project of mine?


From experience, I suggest that you find a _local_ gunsmith, rather than accessing someone far away.
If it were me wanting this job done, I would first establish a personal relationship with the gunsmith, so that he will accept your request as completely serious, and not just theoretical.
Then, I would solicit his input about the design, and I would take his advice about what is feasible and what is not. Much discussion should follow, as the idea is completely ironed out between the two of you.
So, no, I cannot recommend someone to you.

Machining a revolver's cylinder to accept full-moon clips is a pretty simple job. If I had a lathe, I could do it. (But I don't, so don't ask.)
The real difficulty will be making the clips themselves. That might require some real ingenuity, and maybe a custom-made stamping die for use by a specialist sheet-metal fabricator. The die will be quite expensive to have made, but, once made, the job of fabricating the clips themselves will be quite cheap.
The other modifications may be somewhat complex, but are still within the abilities of a well-trained machinist or gunsmith.


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## Bob Wright

Nuclearpanduh said:


> Mr. Wright,
> 
> While I understand you do not share my enthusiasm for having this revolver made your criticism is unnecessary. I came to this forum looking for advice on building a custom revolver and VAMarine & SteaveM1911A have provided me with great ideas to get my CUSTOM piece made. Thank you for your input though.
> 
> Nuke


Since this was a sheer fantasy episode from some video game, I did think you were/are putting us on. If you are indeed sincere in pursuing this project, I hope you have very, very deep pockets.

Again, I point out that the company that makes this, Mustang Arms, is to be formed in the year 2027.

And, from the website:

"(I)t uses telescoped ammunition, in which the projectile is completely enveloped in the case by the propellant. This revolver can also use heavyweight .357 magnum special explosive rounds. It can accept 5, 6, or 7 round cylinders. The weapon uses a side break action rather than conventional swing-out cylinder for reloading.
When modified with the explosive round modification, it becomes even more powerful, killing many enemies in a single shot.

Ammunition is very rare at the start of the game, but after locating Sandoval becomes vastly more common."

Bob Wright


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## rex

By Bob's description this is a takeoff of the old gig of caseless rounds from years ago that went nowhere,and if this does exist now it's a prototype working out the many bugs-speculating because I don't want to look any further into it.As it sits now,you don't need a gunsmith,you need an engineer/machinist above your normal smith.That means serious money and pretty much going where they began this venture.

Beyond that,I really don't know what to say,but welcome aboard.


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## Nuclearpanduh

Bob Wright said:


> Since this was a sheer fantasy episode from some video game, I did think you were/are putting us on. If you are indeed sincere in pursuing this project, I hope you have very, very deep pockets.
> 
> Again, I point out that the company that makes this, Mustang Arms, is to be formed in the year 2027.
> 
> And, from the website:
> 
> "(I)t uses telescoped ammunition, in which the projectile is completely enveloped in the case by the propellant. This revolver can also use heavyweight .357 magnum special explosive rounds. It can accept 5, 6, or 7 round cylinders. The weapon uses a side break action rather than conventional swing-out cylinder for reloading.
> When modified with the explosive round modification, it becomes even more powerful, killing many enemies in a single shot.
> 
> Ammunition is very rare at the start of the game, but after locating Sandoval becomes vastly more common."
> 
> Bob Wright


Yes Mr.Wright

I understand what it says about the gun those details don't matter. I do have deep pockets and I am looking to make this gun that is currently not a real gun into a reality that's why i came to this forum to get advice on making it. Thats why the title of this is " need a Custom Revolver to be made" I get it sir thank you for pointing out the very obvious signs that this is not a real gun i get it thank you.


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## Nuclearpanduh

rex said:


> By Bob's description this is a takeoff of the old gig of caseless rounds from years ago that went nowhere,and if this does exist now it's a prototype working out the many bugs-speculating because I don't want to look any further into it.As it sits now,you don't need a gunsmith,you need an engineer/machinist above your normal smith.That means serious money and pretty much going where they began this venture.
> 
> Beyond that,I really don't know what to say,but welcome aboard.


All the hub bub about the ammo, this and that isn't what im looking for. Im looking to make a custom .357 that resembles this gun. I understand its a fictional piece at the moment. Thats why i came here to find out who i can talk to about getting a .357 that resembles this gun aesthetically. not literally in every way. thats why i only posted pictures and not a big description about every little detail.

Thank you Rex for the welcome though this seems like a very knowledgeable board


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## TurboHonda

Nuclearpanduh said:


> All the hub bub about the ammo, this and that isn't what im looking for. Im looking to make a custom .357 that resembles this gun. I understand its a fictional piece at the moment. Thats why i came here to find out who i can talk to about getting a .357 that resembles this gun aesthetically. not literally in every way. thats why i only posted pictures and not a big description about every little detail.
> 
> Thank you Rex for the welcome though this seems like a very knowledgeable board


Stow the indignation. Bob's reply to your first post on this board was researched and appropriate.

You said you "need" a custom revolver, then attached a picture of a structurally weak fantasy gun. Now you want to qualify what you really meant? The hub bub started with you.


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## Bob Wright

Nuclearpanduh,

I meant no offense, but did in fact think your were putting us on.

As to such a revolver, consider the old Iver Johnson revolvers and the Merwin Hulberts, which "broke" open in unusual ways. I believe the IJ revovler was based on the Shattuck patents. The weakness in both of these designs was that the guns had to be made to very close tolerances, and were subject to premature wear so that the guns "shot loose" fairly early, and were never capable of containing the stress of high pressure revolver rounds.

I apologize for my misunderstanding.

Bob Wright


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## Nuclearpanduh

Bob Wright said:


> Nuclearpanduh,
> 
> I meant no offense, but did in fact think your were putting us on.
> 
> As to such a revolver, consider the old Iver Johnson revolvers and the Merwin Hulberts, which "broke" open in unusual ways. I believe the IJ revovler was based on the Shattuck patents. The weakness in both of these designs was that the guns had to be made to very close tolerances, and were subject to premature wear so that the guns "shot loose" fairly early, and were never capable of containing the stress of high pressure revolver rounds.
> 
> I apologize for my misunderstanding.
> 
> Bob Wright


Hmm very interesting. Thank you for your input i will be also looking further into this. I have been looking around and the Raging Bull and Mateba Model 6 unica auto revolver. What are your opinions on these? I have also found a few custom pieces around the web that look very interesting to me however i cannot seem to find the model used for them. I am probably looking in the neighborhood of $7-$10,000 on this project.

Thanks


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## Nuclearpanduh

Oh also I wanted to ask your opinion on the side load out. Is that a plausible idea or do you think it will have to be more traditional cylinder fold out?


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## Steve M1911A1

I note in your illustrations that only one pivot supports the cylinder/barrel assembly, and it's up at the bottom-front of the cylinder, where it has very little mechanical advantage.
There seems to be no method, at the rear end of the cylinder, of resisting the tension and torsion forces created by firing a cartridge and the departure of its bullet. As the proposed gun is fired, rather strong forces will attempt to separate the pistol's cylinder from its recoil shield. These forces must be contained. There should be some set of interlocking shapes, where the rear end if the top-strap meets the recoil shield, to contain these forces (see: Merwin & Hulbert revolvers).

*Bob* notes that the failure of, among other guns, the Merwin & Hulbert revolvers similar to yours, was the result of complex shapes that had to be made to fit together tightly, but were made of old-fashion, rather soft steel-or even iron. Premature wear defeated the basic concept.
However, had Merwin & Hulbert pistols been made out of modern steel that was properly heat-treated, they might've been quite successful. It would all depend upon either modern CNC machining, or careful hand-fitting...or both.

I further note that the barrel/cylinder pivot of the design you reference is in entirely the wrong place. In order that the cylinder open as shown, the vertical pivot would have to be moved to a far-off-center position, on the right side of the frame's front end. Only then would the cylinder open away from the pistol's recoil shield.
If it were to stay where the illustration has placed it, the right edge of the cylinder, or the cartridge heads, would jam up against the recoil shield, and the cylinder could not open. (For an illustration of the correct arrangement, albeit in the vertical plane, see: Webley, Harrington & Richardson, and Iver Johnson top-break revolvers.)
However, placing the pivot in the correct position to permit easy opening would then put even more strain on it, both in tension and in torsion, making a rear-end-of-top-strap connection even more important, and requiring that connection to be heavily constructed, strongly arranged, and tightly fitted. This last fact is the reason why top-break revolvers are never designed to use powerful cartridges (see: Smith & Wesson top-break revolvers).

I also note that the concept of an easily-removable cylinder will invariable result in the loss of that cylinder, if the revolver is ever entered into a real, save-your-life fight.
This is why I suggested a strongly attached cylinder, and separate "full moon" cartridge clips instead. Clips are easy and inexpensive to replace, once a die has been made.


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## TurboHonda

You might also look at the Chiappa Rhino. It looks unorthodox and claims a logical reason for being so.


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## Jonny_Cannon

I want a custom revolver, too. It will fire the 30mm depleted uranium round my favorite airplane does.

Cannon


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## VAMarine

The first thing I thought of when seeing the pictures in the 1st post was Gemeni Customs:

*https://www.geminicustoms.com/Ruger/RugerServices.htm*

Turning these:










Into these:


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## Steve M1911A1

*Nuclearpanduh*;
See VAMarine's third Gemini Custom photo down: That's a full-moon clip, maybe for .357 Magnum rounds.


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## Bob Wright

O.K. Let's go back to square one. Just what is the intended purpose for this custom revolver? You apparently want speed of reloading, a 6" barrel, and .357 Magnum caliber. This tells me you want a police/service revolver for uniformed personnel. A smallish caliber in a medium sized revolver. Such as the Colt Python or maybe a Smith & Wesson Model 586 or 686 as a base frame. The S&W L-Frame is in my opinion the very best DA .357 Magnum to come down the pike. Take this to somebody like Hamilton Bowen or other custom gunsmith for incorporating any extra feature you might want.

As to the use of steel full moon clips, I don't advise their use, or at least their exclusive use. They get bent, broken, or lost. Better in my opinion are speed loaders such as the HKS or simply loading two rounds at a time.

Again, the final result will be dictated by the intended use.

Bob Wright


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## Nuclearpanduh

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I note in your illustrations that only one pivot supports the cylinder/barrel assembly, and it's up at the bottom-front of the cylinder, where it has very little mechanical advantage.
> There seems to be no method, at the rear end of the cylinder, of resisting the tension and torsion forces created by firing a cartridge and the departure of its bullet. As the proposed gun is fired, rather strong forces will attempt to separate the pistol's cylinder from its recoil shield. These forces must be contained. There should be some set of interlocking shapes, where the rear end if the top-strap meets the recoil shield, to contain these forces (see: Merwin & Hulbert revolvers).
> 
> *Bob* notes that the failure of, among other guns, the Merwin & Hulbert revolvers similar to yours, was the result of complex shapes that had to be made to fit together tightly, but were made of old-fashion, rather soft steel-or even iron. Premature wear defeated the basic concept.
> However, had Merwin & Hulbert pistols been made out of modern steel that was properly heat-treated, they might've been quite successful. It would all depend upon either modern CNC machining, or careful hand-fitting...or both.
> 
> I further note that the barrel/cylinder pivot of the design you reference is in entirely the wrong place. In order that the cylinder open as shown, the vertical pivot would have to be moved to a far-off-center position, on the right side of the frame's front end. Only then would the cylinder open away from the pistol's recoil shield.
> If it were to stay where the illustration has placed it, the right edge of the cylinder, or the cartridge heads, would jam up against the recoil shield, and the cylinder could not open. (For an illustration of the correct arrangement, albeit in the vertical plane, see: Webley, Harrington & Richardson, and Iver Johnson top-break revolvers.)
> However, placing the pivot in the correct position to permit easy opening would then put even more strain on it, both in tension and in torsion, making a rear-end-of-top-strap connection even more important, and requiring that connection to be heavily constructed, strongly arranged, and tightly fitted. This last fact is the reason why top-break revolvers are never designed to use powerful cartridges (see: Smith & Wesson top-break revolvers).
> 
> I also note that the concept of an easily-removable cylinder will invariable result in the loss of that cylinder, if the revolver is ever entered into a real, save-your-life fight.
> This is why I suggested a strongly attached cylinder, and separate "full moon" cartridge clips instead. Clips are easy and inexpensive to replace, once a die has been made.


Wow Lot of information. Thank you very much Steve. What your saying is very similar to what I was also told my a gunsmith today. Im glad i came to this forum you guys seem to know allot about your guns.


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## Nuclearpanduh

VA,

Thank you for that site. The grips are very similer to my concept and it looks as though they completely design these guns. I love this site i will be contacting them for sure!!


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## Nuclearpanduh

Bob Wright said:


> O.K. Let's go back to square one. Just what is the intended purpose for this custom revolver? You apparently want speed of reloading, a 6" barrel, and .357 Magnum caliber. This tells me you want a police/service revolver for uniformed personnel. A smallish caliber in a medium sized revolver. Such as the Colt Python or maybe a Smith & Wesson Model 586 or 686 as a base frame. The S&W L-Frame is in my opinion the very best DA .357 Magnum to come down the pike. Take this to somebody like Hamilton Bowen or other custom gunsmith for incorporating any extra feature you might want.
> 
> As to the use of steel full moon clips, I don't advise their use, or at least their exclusive use. They get bent, broken, or lost. Better in my opinion are speed loaders such as the HKS or simply loading two rounds at a time.
> 
> Again, the final result will be dictated by the intended use.
> 
> Bob Wright


To Be honest. I don't have a specific purpose for this piece. I just saw the design and wanted to make it a reality. I have a Springfield .40 but wanted a nice revolver to go with it. I figured I have the money why not get make it a reality. I have indeed looked at the 586 and 686 frames it seems these frames are popular for custom one off pieces for people. The Website VA linked also has allot of customs ones as well. Is there a different barrel length you might suggest?


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## TAPnRACK

Curious what your estimated budget is for making this revolver a reality?

Very cool design btw... hope you can get it made.


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## Bob Wright

Nuclearpanduh: Is there a different barrel length you might suggest?

Barrel length is entirely contingent upon the ultimate usage. For maximum velocity and portability, 6" or so would be indicated. For the ultimate in velocity and sight radius, even 8" is useful, though carying such a length is not so comfortable. If for service/defense use, a 4" barrel is desirable. Shrouded, or full lug for extra weight is a feature some like, others don't. The extra weight towards the muzzle helps to dampen recoil and muzzle jump and get back on target a little faster. Some dislike the heavy barrels due to the extra weight they add to the gun.

What's desired in a field/hunting revolver is usually not so well accepted in a service revolver.

Usually, in building a custom revovler, some specific features are incorporated into the final project to enhance its performance in that usage.

Bob Wright


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## DanP_from_AZ

Nuclearpanduh said:


> Hello all!
> I am looking for a custom revolver to be made. Thanks, Nuke


Thanks much Nuke ! :smt1099

But, shucks, I'm really sorry I got to the party so late.
I'd been wondering when Bob Wright and the gun guru's would get a good group discussion going again.

I just e-filed my taxes, fixed a cold one, and decided to check on the guys after too long an absence.

So, I'll save the popcorn for later, but just weigh in on the concept of "rolling your own mechanical devices".
These folks know I claim to be a retired mechanical engineer. I do like "form" to be pleasing to me. Not just functional.

So, I'm a bit crazy. And I think your "revolver concepts" are just really, REALLY overwrought and ugly. And functionally
stupid. But, still, they ARE interesting. :mrgreen:

I do have a lot of experience in using stockholders money to make "new cars" meet Federal Safety Standards.
Got to spend a few million just to get a "mule" and a few prototypes. Then more millions to "tweak them correctly".
And, you have to have "folks" who can make complex three-dimensional structures in real metal. Ain't easy.

And, on a MUCH smaller scale, I was part of a "team" that made endurance racing cars. Think "Lemans 24 hr, etc." 
Needed to end up with "something" that looked close enough to a production Corvette to pass inspection. With some
fairly liberal "rules". Pretty much everything hand-crafted under "the surface" to go faster. And be RELIABLE TOO ! 
I did the brakes. And bent the roll cage structures.

It took about three months work from a ten-man crew to make two cars. And three weeks work after a race to get them
back "ready to rock and roll" again. A LOT of very expensive man-hours. Sometimes to be destroyed in a few seconds.

All that to just say, "custom work" man-hours are expensive. Plus "Custom DESIGN that WORKS" is REALLY expensive.

So I say, Nuke, forget my puking and mewing, and GO FOR IT. This could be a lot of fun. And now, popcorn. :watching:


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## Steve M1911A1

DanP_from_AZ said:


> ...So...forget my puking and mewing...


Dan, not only do you give us a very useful perspective on the complexities of new-product development, but you also quote Shakespeare.
Thank you for a very interesting read.

Once, quite a long time ago, I aspired to do what you have actually done.
Instead, I bent leather, because it required less math.
My envy knows no bounds!


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## pic

:watching:


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## Nuclearpanduh

TAPnRACK said:


> Curious what your estimated budget is for making this revolver a reality?
> 
> Very cool design btw... hope you can get it made.


My budget for this is between 7-10,000 Problem is I cant seem to find a smith that isnt booked up for the next century lol.


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## Nuclearpanduh

Bob Wright said:


> Nuclearpanduh: Is there a different barrel length you might suggest?
> 
> Barrel length is entirely contingent upon the ultimate usage. For maximum velocity and portability, 6" or so would be indicated. For the ultimate in velocity and sight radius, even 8" is useful, though carying such a length is not so comfortable. If for service/defense use, a 4" barrel is desirable. Shrouded, or full lug for extra weight is a feature some like, others don't. The extra weight towards the muzzle helps to dampen recoil and muzzle jump and get back on target a little faster. Some dislike the heavy barrels due to the extra weight they add to the gun.
> 
> What's desired in a field/hunting revolver is usually not so well accepted in a service revolver.
> 
> Usually, in building a custom revovler, some specific features are incorporated into the final project to enhance its performance in that usage.
> 
> Bob Wright


Very cool thats good to know. I have talked to a couple smiths and they said like you i could go either way with it but for this build 6" would work just fine. one of them did tell me to think about making it an 8" though something i found very interesting.


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## Nuclearpanduh

DanP_from_AZ said:


> Thanks much Nuke ! :smt1099
> 
> But, shucks, I'm really sorry I got to the party so late.
> I'd been wondering when Bob Wright and the gun guru's would get a good group discussion going again.
> 
> I just e-filed my taxes, fixed a cold one, and decided to check on the guys after too long an absence.
> 
> So, I'll save the popcorn for later, but just weigh in on the concept of "rolling your own mechanical devices".
> These folks know I claim to be a retired mechanical engineer. I do like "form" to be pleasing to me. Not just functional.
> 
> So, I'm a bit crazy. And I think your "revolver concepts" are just really, REALLY overwrought and ugly. And functionally
> stupid. But, still, they ARE interesting. :mrgreen:
> 
> I do have a lot of experience in using stockholders money to make "new cars" meet Federal Safety Standards.
> Got to spend a few million just to get a "mule" and a few prototypes. Then more millions to "tweak them correctly".
> And, you have to have "folks" who can make complex three-dimensional structures in real metal. Ain't easy.
> 
> And, on a MUCH smaller scale, I was part of a "team" that made endurance racing cars. Think "Lemans 24 hr, etc."
> Needed to end up with "something" that looked close enough to a production Corvette to pass inspection. With some
> fairly liberal "rules". Pretty much everything hand-crafted under "the surface" to go faster. And be RELIABLE TOO !
> I did the brakes. And bent the roll cage structures.
> 
> It took about three months work from a ten-man crew to make two cars. And three weeks work after a race to get them
> back "ready to rock and roll" again. A LOT of very expensive man-hours. Sometimes to be destroyed in a few seconds.
> 
> All that to just say, "custom work" man-hours are expensive. Plus "Custom DESIGN that WORKS" is REALLY expensive.
> 
> So I say, Nuke, forget my puking and mewing, and GO FOR IT. This could be a lot of fun. And now, popcorn. :watching:


HAHA thank you Dan. It sounds like you have a pretty awesome career for sure. I will definitely keep you guys updated. Everyone here has been very nice and very helpful i have gotten lots of important info. I myself operate a Nightclub in the bay area so that keeps me rather busy and i can only post on here at 2 or 3 am. But i think ill be able to get this monster made just may take a little time.


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## Bob Wright

Several years ago I had a S&W Model 29 in .44 Magnum made with with an 8 3/8" full lug barrel. This barrel shot like a .30-30 rifle out to 100 yards or so. And that much steel out front sure dampened recoil.

But it made up into a very heavy thing to carry around, and walking over fields hunting groundhogs made it feel like a 105mm Howitzer by the end of the day. I had it cut back to a more manageable 6" length and, while still heavy, was easier to holster and carry.

If you plan on sitting in a blind most of the day, 8" or even longer is fine. But for portibility, not so good.

Bob Wright


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## Nuclearpanduh

This gun looks very interesting to me. Does anyone know anything about the components on it?

http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/jon_franks_1080789925_1-63_048.jpg


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## Steve M1911A1

It seems to be a stainless steel S&W gun. I have no clue as to its caliber.
Someone has removed the standard S&W barrel's underlug, but kept its top rib, and instead has added a full-length weight, secured by two screws. A Pachmayr (?) grip has been added, too.
It seems to have not only a long-eye-relief 'scope sight, but also a laser (or a flashlight—I can't tell) mounted coaxially with it. (I suspect that it's a flashlight, since it's offset.)
You can see that the 'scope mount was made by Aimtech, and the original iron sights remain in place.
I suspect that the basic S&W revolver also has had a pretty fine trigger job done to its works.

I have to assume that this revolver is rock-steady in experienced hands, in large part due to the added forward weight.


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## VAMarine

Nuclearpanduh said:


> This gun looks very interesting to me. Does anyone know anything about the components on it?
> 
> http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/jon_franks_1080789925_1-63_048.jpg


Google "funny gun + PPC revolver" and you'll see more of the same type of guns.


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## pic

My wife just bought me a gun for my birthday. going to the range tomorrow


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## Steve M1911A1

I understand that they're very accurate.
But I've never met anyone who has shot one.
I wonder why.


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