# Another Church Shooting



## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

RICHMOND, Calif. (Feb. 15) - Police were seeking a hooded gunman who horrified the congregation of a San Francisco Bay area church when he paced the aisles then pulled out a gun and shot two teenagers.

No arrests had been made or suspects named in the Sunday shooting at New Gethsemane Church of God in Christ in Richmond, police said.

The gunman flanked by two companions in hooded sweatshirts walked into the church, scanned the pews and fired about five shots, hitting a 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man in front of about 100 people, Richmond police Sgt. Bisa French said.


Charles Miller, a 64-year-old deacon at the church, said members of the congregation were about to tell the men to take off their hoods when the shooting began.

"I was listening to the choir and all of a sudden there was a 'pop pop pop pop pop,'" Miller told the San Francisco Chronicle. "Everyone hit the floor. I didn't know the shooting was inside the church at first, until I heard all of the hollering and screaming."

The 14-year-old was hit in the shoulder and the 19-year-old was struck in the leg, French said. Both victims, whose names haven't been released, were hospitalized and were expected to survive. There were no other injuries.

"It's terrible when you come to the house of the Lord and start doing this," Miller said. "It's just something you don't do."

Investigators believe the men were targeting someone in the church but don't know if the two who were hit were the intended targets, French said.

French said investigators were interviewing witnesses to see if anyone recognized the men.

A handful of congregants returned to the church after police processed the crime scene and finished the service.

"We went on and had church anyway," Miller told the Chronicle. "We were giving thanks that nobody was killed. We wanted to go and serve the Lord anyway."

The small, off-white two-story church is surrounded by a red-and white wrought-iron fence in a residential section of Richmond, a city of 103,000 on the eastern Bay shoreline north of Oakland and Berkeley.

The city has already seen seven homicides in 2010, and garnered national attention because of the alleged gang rape by as many as 10 people of a 16-year-old girl outside an October homecoming dance at Richmond High School, with as many as 20 bystanders allegedly watching.

Terry Collins AP. Associated Press Writer Andrew Dalton in Los Angeles contributed to this report.


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## tropicmaster (Dec 20, 2009)

I cannot believe the timimg of your post! I just started carrying concealed, and was undecided about church yesterday. I ended up not carrying, but my wife and I did talk about a " what if" scenario exactly like this! We live in a really small town and I doubt it would ever happen here, but it sure is something to think about. She even said " how bad would you feel if soemthing happened and your gun was in the car". I guess we all ( or at least me) need to change our ideas of what is" appropriate" in a church setting.

ETA- perhaps we need to re examine what is appropriate in other settings as well. No carry in schools is almost universal among states, but would Alabama have possibly turned out differently had a staff member been carrying? I'm not sure what I think about schools- part of me says that no good can possibly come from weapons in schools, but another part of me says that our current goverment cannot possibly protect our students/faculty. That is not even the correct way to look at it- NO goverment can protect against an isolated " flip out" like it appears happened in Alabama. With that being said, maybe schools should also be armed citizen zones? Tough question


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

tropicmaster said:


> NO goverment can protect against an isolated " flip out" like it appears happened in Alabama.


 apparently several opportunities to put her away in the past where mishandled.


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## BearValley (May 25, 2009)

tropicmaster said:


> I cannot believe the timimg of your post! I just started carrying concealed, and was undecided about church yesterday. I ended up not carrying, but my wife and I did talk about a " what if" scenario exactly like this! We live in a really small town and I doubt it would ever happen here, but it sure is something to think about. She even said " how bad would you feel if soemthing happened and your gun was in the car". I guess we all ( or at least me) need to change our ideas of what is" appropriate" in a church setting...


I'm not terribly bold, but I wouldn't hesitate for a second to carry concealed in church, as the intent/purpose of carrying is to protect yourself/your family from bad guys. It's the BGs who don't respect the sanctity of the church, not you. On the other hand, being such a crowded area, wow, the odds of a friendly fire incident are NOT favorable.

I'm really looking forward to seeing other's opinions on this.


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## tropicmaster (Dec 20, 2009)

bruce333 said:


> apparently several opportunities to put her away in the past where mishandled.


Perhaps a bad analogy- I just meant a situation LIKE the one in AL.


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## VasSigmeister (Jan 3, 2010)

I would probably carry in church, my Mom wouldnt like it, but if something like this were to happen I would want to be able to do something, although with so many people in such a closed off setting, missing would be a very bad thing... So it's a tough call for me...


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

bruce333 said:


> apparently several opportunities to put her away in the past where mishandled.


True, although that does nothing to reassure me of the competence of _our_ government to prevent such tragedies.

Also, tropicmaster, it's good to distinguish between colleges and universities, and grades 1-12 schools when the topic of carry in the schools come up. The latter tends to be far more controversial, likely due to the relatively small number of people even of legal age to have a weapon.

On topic, I think I'd only carry in a church if I felt well-trained with a fairly concealable weapon. The combination of innocent people in every direction would make it difficult to shoot even if you were under fire, and it'd be easier to be "made" than in other public places due to the higher personal contact.

KG


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

kg333 said:


> True, although that does nothing to reassure me of the competence of _our_ government to prevent such tragedies.


Well, that was my point. The LEAs involved dropped the ball.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Any place that is known to prohibit the legal carrying of guns is a prime target for these cowards who wish to murder innocent people. I don't attend church on any kind of regular basis, but I carry whenever I do go, be it for a wedding, funeral, or whatever. If I were a minister, I would not only carry, but I would discreetly encourage some of the members to carry, and to disperse themselves throughout the congregation.

Maybe this kind of attitude has something to do with why I'm not a regular attendee.


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## twomode (Jun 7, 2009)

At first glance I want to say this looks like a targeted shooting of opportunity. Seems like they picked their target, and then went to where there would be the least likely chance of running into armed resistance. Which is why gun-free zones are such a stupid idea. How will we ever get the word out so that it's universally understood that the higher the likelyhood there are weapons around the lower the chances someone will be to perpetrate armed violence? 

I mean if you're going to commit an armed crime, where you gonna go? Someplace where people are carrying? Or church? We'll probably never know unless these guys are caught.


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## mikej997 (Jan 26, 2008)

I'd have to say that when I started carrying CCW, my wife didn't like the idea of me carrying in church. I argued the point and several of these examples that have occured in just the last couple of years has her checking to make sure I have it now before we go.


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