# Do I really need more than 9MM for HD?



## tmodesto (Nov 19, 2007)

I know that caliber for HD has been discussed many times, but more I search less I find, so my big question is remain: DO I REALLY NEED ANYTHING LARGER THAN 9MM FOR HOME DEFENSE? at 7-10 yard distance I believe a good self defense 9MM round should take care of problem and shooting at larger distance can not be justified as self defense, so why larger than 9mm?


----------



## big dutchman (Jan 9, 2007)

for home defense, a decent 9mm hollow point should be more than enough to solve your intrusion problems. dead is dead whether they have a dime sized hole or fist sized crater in their noggin. that being said, i prefer the 12 gauge 00 buck. not because 20 gauge can't do it, but because that's what i have. a 45 isn't bad by any means, but i wouldn't buy one for that purpose alone. the best handgun for the job is the one you are most comfortable with (and is larger than a 32acp)


----------



## vernpriest (Jan 15, 2008)

Bigger is not always better. Bigger calibers create more recoil and make fast, accurate shooting more difficult. The 9mm round is a military and police standard around the world. The modern hollowpoint ammo makes this round very effective for self-defense although it still boils down to what you are comfortable with. This debate will go on til the end of time. I have opted to carry a Kahr CW9 9mm even though I could have bought the .40 for the same price.


----------



## Snowman (Jan 2, 2007)

Well...

If I could shoot a .40 or a .45 just as well as a 9mm, I'd rather have one of those for home defense. Sure a 9mm is effective and should serve you well if you need it, but there's no question that the larger rounds are more powerful. Home defense is a different question than CCW, since you can opt for a full-size weapon as a nightstand gun where that may not be possible for carry. This makes capacity less of an issue at home.


----------



## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

*9mm is fine*

9mm as a home defense round is more then suitable. A lot of people knock it but there is a reason that more militaries around the world use it as a handgun cartridge. There is very little power differences between the popular defense cartridges(9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 Auto). If you choose a good hollowpoint bullet from a reputable ammunition company you can't go wrong. Shot placement is the number one thing you need to worry about, all of them will fail if you don't make a good hit or miss.Become familiar with your weapon and make sure the bullet goes where you point it and you will be fine. In 9mm, I prefer the 124grain +P load from Speer using the Gold Dot but Winchester, Federal, and Hornady all make great loads as well. I urge you to experiment and see what works best with you, because what works for me may not for you.


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

People get all wrapped around the axle about calibers. All modern service calibers, including 9mm, work fine if they are shot well. None of them work well if shot poorly.

Pick a gun. Pick any good modern hollowpoint that functions well in that gun. Then forget that stuff and move on to the things that actually matter: mindset, marksmanship, gunhandling, and tactics. It's way more about software than hardware.


----------



## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

^^^ - I agree. Anything 9mm or bigger will do enough damage that, if placed well, will rapidly incapacitate a BG. I certainly would not want to get shot with any firearm no matter the caliber.

Advantages of 9mm:
* Penetrates well even with expanding bullets
* High-speed projectile means a flatter trajectory; no ranging required
* Lower muzzle energy means less recoil
* Small cartridge allows the largest possible mag capacity of major defense rounds
* The previous two points combined allow for more effective rapid fire; 2 smaller holes are better than one.

Disadvantages of 9mm:
* Risk of overpenetration is greater than larger calibers
* Expanders are required for best effect on fleshy targets, and expanders don't always expand
* Overall wounding potential with a non-expanding bullet (whether designed to expand or not) is less than .40 or .45.
* Lower muzzle energy and expanding bullets give lesser performance through glass, doors, etc. than larger ball ammunition.


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Liko81 said:


> * Risk of overpenetration is greater than larger calibers


I agree with everything you said except this. Modern 9mm JHPs do not penetrate any deeper in humans or in typical building materials than other service rounds, like .40 and .45.

In people, good 9mm loads hit the FBI standards (12"-14"), just like .40 and .45. In building materials, all will go through at least 6-7 wallboards, which is equivalent to 3-4 interior walls.

See www.firearmstactical.com and www.theboxotruth.com, among others.


----------



## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

Being enough for home defense is measured in how well you can hit a target. Not by the size of the bullet.


----------



## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

CALIBER WAR!!!

A Louisville slugger will also get the job done http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323423,00.html

I've read both sides of this issue and only say... practice with what you can comfortable shoot with because if you can't hit it, it ain't gonna stop. Heck, I carry a KTP3AT a lot and feel comfortable doing so. Unless you're a combat veteran most people will fall when shot do to the point that they think they should. Getting shot has a big physiological factor in it. Of course a big hole helps too.:rock:


----------



## Glockamania® (Dec 21, 2006)

Two words: Shot Placement.

Also, if you can afford another caliber then more power to you. My advice is to stick with the caliber that you're going to train, use at the range and defend with.


----------



## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

22lr, aim for the head.


----------



## hkhoosier (Jan 18, 2008)

+1. I feel very comfortable with 9mm. I prefer .45 but I don't think it matters much. 9mm is cheaper and you can find it anywhere.



Glockamania® said:


> Two words: Shot Placement.


----------



## Polak (Jan 13, 2008)

A nice Hollow Point .45 will make sure you won't scratch your furniture with bullets after you hit the guy. 9mm can go through and through.


----------



## Gordo (Oct 21, 2007)

*Best Caliber for Home Defense*

I figure if I do not get the intruder with my XD9 I likely will not get him with my Taurus 40 cal or S&W 357. Hell at less than 10-15 yards anyone is going to do the job. It depends on what you are most comfortable with. Originally I went with my S&W 357 mag snubbie, I just knew it was not going to fail, but after pumping about 1000 rounds through my XD9 I have the same confidense.


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Polak said:


> A nice Hollow Point .45 will make sure you won't scratch your furniture with bullets after you hit the guy. 9mm can go through and through.


Once again, good 9mm JHPs *do not* penetrate any deeper in people than other service rounds. Virtually all modern JHP service ammo is designed to meet the FBI testing protocols, which specify penetration of 12"-14" in soft tissue. This specifically includes 9mm, .40 and .45. It is for this very reason that NYPD, for example, finally switched to JHPs from solids in their 9mms. This is apparently one of those internet/gun magazine myths that will not die.

www.firearmstactical.com

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about scratches on the furniture. The carpet will be completely ruined after you shoot a guy, and you'll probably need to clean the blood off the walls and re-paint. If he spurts blood or lands on any furniture, say goodbye to that, too. He probably won't die right away from handgun hits, and will cough blood and maybe vomit, too. It ain't pretty and clean like on TV.


----------



## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

www.firearmstactical.com

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about scratches on the furniture. The carpet will be completely ruined after you shoot a guy, and you'll probably need to clean the blood off the walls and re-paint. If he spurts blood or lands on any furniture, say goodbye to that, too. He probably won't die right away from handgun hits, and will cough blood and maybe vomit, too. It ain't pretty and clean like on TV.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you pointed out the grim realities here. It should be mentioned more than it is. I think there is a lot of "head trippin" about taking out a bad guy and a tendency to forget the grim realities of what we are talking about here. I'm all for smoking a guy if the situation warrents and that is the first decision you have to make. Do you really want to splatter some guys brains all over the livingroom over a VCR when he's on the way out the door anyway? That guy Horn down in Texas is a good example of what not to do in my opinion. They were petty thieves and no one was in eminent danger. Yep they were bad guys but I don't think they needed killing.


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Yes, sometimes you read macho chest thumping on the internet from people who say "My state lets me shoot to protect property, so I will kill anyone taking my TV!" They never stop to consider the amount of property damage done by shooting a guy inside the house. A new carpet costs more than most TVs. Throw in a couch, maybe a window, and you're in the monetary hole. Plus you'll probably have to give up your gun as evidence, and even if you get it back, it will probably be a rusty heap after sitting for six months in an evidence locker with blood on it.

Not to mention other, less tangible costs...like the way your wife may look at you after seeing you perform an act of extreme violence, or the nightmares your kids will have after they see a man in a bloody heap on the floor, maybe crying for his mother as he gurgles out his last breath.


----------



## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Accuracy is king, Penatration is queen and everything else is Angels dancing on the head of a pin. :smt033(thanks Mr Erich):smt1099


----------



## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*strong*

Give strong considerations to "Mike's" piece.


----------



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm not about to kill anyone over my "stuff". The one thing I've learned through the years, after kid's stuff, college stuff, bachelor stuff, and now our stuff, is that you will always get new stuff. Your current stuff will be old stuff in a few years, and only the sentimental stuff will matter.

If someone is after my stuff... let-em have it. Not lead... my stuff. That's what insurance and stores are for.

If you are after me, to get my stuff, you better be bullet-proof, and willing to die to get my stuff, that I will be tossing away soon anyway... If my stuff gets all bloody while saving my life, and the lives of loved ones... So be it. NEW STUFF!

Jeff


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Well said, *Jeff*. Next time SHOT Show is in Orlando, I'm buying the beer. (Unless, God forbid, they make Vegas the permanent location.)


----------



## rufusdog88 (Jan 12, 2008)

*Cal. for HD*

wow now that was a lot of good advice on that thread. Very interesting concept on the way things could pan out in the event of having to shoot someone. Mike and Jeff I really enjoyed and learned from your posts. I agree that if it's just stuff let him have it, but if it's you and then your stuff you must be firing for effect..thanks for the good advice.:smt023


----------



## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

The most intelligent exchange I've seen on a gun forum so far! There are some good heads around here.:smt023


----------



## NAS T MAG (Dec 9, 2007)

I have several options for HD (see sig), but my choice is this one. Not too much aiming required!


----------



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

i agree with gmaske
the question was distinctily stated and led to good comments
there were great comments on this exchange
i want to buy other guns but then i ask why - i have all that i need for HD

however - could someone qualify the comments as it regards to some readers that live in a mobile home park or in an apartment building - WOULD THAT CHANGE SOME OF THE COMMENTS?
as mike said: 3 - 4 walls could be that the next door neighbor is hit if you miss!


----------



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey Mike,

I have a 5BR pool home, 15 minutes from the Orlando Convention Center.

No need to buy beer, I have two fridges! Just get me a good deal at the Galco booth!

Jeff


----------

