# Entry Level .45ACP



## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hello Everyone!

I'm looking towards a .45 for when I turn 21 in November. I will also be buying a M1895 Nagant Revolver (7.62x38r) at the same time.

So I've been looking towards the stainless Remington R1 M1911. I also like the S&W Model 22, Model of 1917, but it's a little expensive and rare for my taste.

I would like it to be:


Stainless steel if a semi-auto. I want something different than the wood & blued Nagant and my rifle, a M91/30
Under $800
Solid trigger
Wood grips
Preferably, a real hammer. Not a P shaped loop

Like I said, I've been looking at the Remington R1, but people over at my rifle forum poo-poo it as a piece of overpriced junk. Thanks for any advice that is thrown my way.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

At your price level, I suggest a gently-used gun, rather than a new one.
If you buy used, you will definitely get, um, more bang for your buck.
If you buy a used Colt 1911, I strongly suggest a Series 70 or earlier, not a Series 80 or later. The Series 80 firing-pin safety is unnecessary.

The Remington couldn't be all that bad, but I dislike its not-original-design, exterior extractor.
Browning's original interior extractor was a better design, but it is more expensive to manufacture than is the exterior version.

If the gun you find has a perforated, "full-race"-style trigger, buy it anyway: 1911 triggers swap out easily and without fitting. Old-fashion solid triggers are pretty cheap.

The reason people prefer "P-shape, looped" hammers has to do with something called "hammer bite."
If your 1911 pistol doesn't have a fairly long "beavertail" grip safety, a thumb-spur, original-style hammer will reach down and peck at your hand, every time you fire it. It will draw blood, and it hurts. It will make you flinch, and that will make you miss.
Most thumb-spur hammers will not work with most protective beavertail grip safeties. All "rowel"-style, "P-shape" hammers work well with beavertail grip safeties, and, really, no beavertail is even necessary of you're using a rowel-style (Commander-style) hammer.


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## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

Besides not getting whacked in the hand by the old fashioned hammer, is there any difference? 

I've been told that you can pull the hammer on a M1911 like a revolver if you prefer not to cock the entire slide. Can you do that with the P's?

And I would prefer to buy new, because I want this pistol to be a keeper. So, I would like to have a warranty on it. If that means me buying a S&W and putting more money down on the counter, so be it. S&W is lifetime, Remington has 2 years, CZ is 5, Caracal is 1. The only real reason that I'm not keen on the CZ97B is because it isn't stainless, but CZ does make quality pieces.


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

Go with a S&W .....their customer service is excellent, lifetime warranty and they pay shipping costs both ways.....JJ


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

tk421991 said:


> Besides not getting whacked in the hand by the old fashioned hammer, is there any difference?
> 
> *I've been told that you can pull the hammer on a M1911 like a revolver* if you prefer not to cock the entire slide...[emphasis added]


Now, why would you want to do that?
Except in antique US Army usage, the 1911 is meant to be carried ready for use, cocked and locked.
While thumbing its hammer is certainly possible, and there is a "half-cock" safety notch to catch the hammer when your thumb slips (which it will), doing such a thing just wastes valuable time when you are under save-your-life pressure, and adds nothing to safety when you are merely shooting at targets.

Pushing upwards on the 1911's safety lever moves a solid steel "lump" (that's what it's called) up against the pistol's sear, trapping it and immobilizing it between that lump and the fully-cocked notch of the hammer. That's about as safe a system as can be had.

In terms of setting-off-a-cartridge action, there is absolutely no difference between the functions of either hammer form. Both work exactly the same.
It is somewhat more difficult to thumb-cock the rowel-shaped, Commander-style hammer. More important, it's a lot more difficult to thumb-_un_cock the Commander hammer, so you can carry the pistol in "condition two": hammer down on a loaded chamber. (Yes, the standard GI and Series 70 pistols are perfectly safe to carry this way.)

But, once again, I have to ask, "Why?"
What is your reason for wanting to carry a 1911 in "condition two"? Do you somehow believe that it's safer?
It's not, neither for you, nor for the way the gun works.
Cocked-and-locked, "condition one," is actually safer.

Here is Joe Bad-Guy, approaching you, knife in hand, demanding "all your money."
Do you really believe that you have enough time to thumb-cock your carry pistol?
And what if Mr. Bad-Guy has a gun? What then?

I strongly suggest that you need to take a class, from a truly competent instructor, about how pistols work, and how they are best used.


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## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Now, why would you want to do that?
> Except in antique US Army usage, the 1911 is meant to be carried ready for use, cocked and locked.


Sorry, I forgot to mention the fact that what ever I will buy will NOT be a carry piece. My state (RI) is a "may issue" state, and I don't have a "good enough reason" to receive a permit from the Attorney General's office. I would need to work in the bad part of the city as a bouncer, or at a pawn shop. The chairman of my gun club's rifle committee was denied the first time because he was allowed to carry on his company's property.

I might later be able to get a permit, but not ASAP. So before the whole CCW situation and the whole condition 1, 2, 3 thing starts, I can't carry. This pistol or revolver will probably spend it's first 2 or 3 years exclusively in my room, in it's case on the way to the gun club (empty), and at the range.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Um, even though I don't live in Rhode Island, I do know about their concealed-carry-permit laws. That's because one of our kids lives in Pawtucket, and I have looked into getting a permit for each of us (me and wife).

While the State Attorney General's office is a "may issue" proposition, the local police departments are all "shall issue," by force of a law passed by the legislature.
All of the local departments want you to use the AG's application packet, but if your record is clear, you have taken the appropriate classes and passed the appropriate test, and if you apply to your local PD (even Providence's), you must be given your permit.
If anybody stalls you, see your lawyer and sue for damages.


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## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

I live in Lincoln, so apparently I need to have my brains poked and prodded. This study looks at '09, so it was probably done in '10.

http://www.rifol.org/pistolpermitstudy.php

My record is clean, but I would still wait to actually get a permit. There is supposed to be a shooting test, and I'd need to spend some quality time with what ever bigger pistol I buy. I don't think the Nagant with it's 20lb DA pull would do me much good. That, and your supposed to use your intended carry pistol or larger during the test.

But carrying is not on my mind, for atleast the rest of 2012. Right now, I need to pick a pistol! I'll be going to the S&W factory store/range on Friday, and will hopefully shoot both the M1911 and the 952. Besides the Nagant, it's basically the R1, the M22M1917, the CZ 75B, or the CZ 97B.


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## Tnic (Jul 5, 2012)

Don't know what the SS (or nickle) ones sell for, but you can likely get a *NEW Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact* for under $600. The basic matte model sells for around $450 new, which leaves some budget for custom grips n such. I just bought a lovingly used duotone (~250 rds through it) and love it.

Check out the reviews on the tube, you'll like what you see there.

For quality used weapons check out Guns for Sale - Online Gun Auction - Buy Guns at GunBroker.com

I've heard great things about them and you are covered much the same way ebay/pp does it in a dispute.


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## LefteeTris (Jul 1, 2012)

Check out the rock island armory 1911. Under 500$ typically. Best bang for the buck. Shoots as well as a kimber but half the cost


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## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

Glock G31? Apparently Glock has a lifetime warranty?


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## GRIMMACT (Jun 14, 2012)

I've seen a number of fine 1911's under 800 at the gunshows. On the GI models I would change the sights due to my age and eyesight. I've been looking for a Regent R200s which are around 600 * http://regentarms.com/products/models/r200s.html*Regent Arms 1911 Handgun | - R200S and I heard they are outstanding and I think it would fit you well. Ya just can"t go wrong with a 1911.


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## GRIMMACT (Jun 14, 2012)

Tell the Attorney General's office that you have to take large deposit's to the drop box at your bank at night. I suggested this to two others and it worked. One of them even made a deposit that way so he would not lie. It was for $800 and that was large for him and who's to say what's large or not. Let him know you voted for him and what a fine job he is doing. Fight fire with Fire and if you ever do get a permit and you carry a 1911 do what Steve said. Carry it Cocked and Lock. That's the only way to carry a 1911 period.


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## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

I could already claim that I go to the bank at night and make "large" deposits. Most of my transactions are after midnight. That, and the BoA in my town is regularly robbed. They have a security guard standing outside, and it's a very suburban town. But, I believe it still would be easier to go to the town chief. 

The strong arguements I have against the M1911 is that it is:

1) 101 years old (A1 was from 1927?)
2) 7+1, and newer handguns are easily over a dozen shot capacity.

I know this sounds indecisive, but I just glanced over Glocks today, and they have a lifetime warranty, are reasonably priced, are all Austrian (not Filipino or Argentine or Norinco) and have more than double the capacity of a M1911. I read many articles that all sound similar, that the M1911 is nearly a divinely inspired wonder of the world, made by the greatest designer ever. Well, Mr. Browning was human, and he made the Hi-Power to fix some of the problems of the M1911.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

tk421991 said:


> The strong arguements I have against the M1911 is that it is:
> 
> 1) 101 years old (A1 was from 1927?)
> 2) 7+1, and newer handguns are easily over a dozen shot capacity.


(1) 101 years of being awesome
(2) 8+1 for most of them now. and you can carry a 10 round spare mag.

you just sounded like you wanted a 1911 from your first post. Good luck on your choice.


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## skullfr (Jun 19, 2012)

It is 100+ because it is a great reliable design.Standard carry is one mag in weapon and 2 spare. A gunfight usually last seconds.If you need more than that you are probably in a war zone.PLacing rounds into a vital organ repeatedly and accuritely doesnt require that many.


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## Philco (Apr 17, 2012)

In the original criteria posted, wooden grips was listed. That is something you'll not likely find on a Glock. If you are going to widen your search for a .45 auto to include polymer framed pistols, might I suggest you take a look at the Ruger P345. I have a Colt 1911 but I also have the Ruger P345 and it's a great gun with a very affordable price tag. There are lots of good choices out there if you do your homework. Be safe.


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## tk421991 (Jun 9, 2011)

Philco said:


> In the original criteria posted, wooden grips was listed. That is something you'll not likely find on a Glock.


If I'm going to stick with a M1911 or a revolver, then wood grips are a must.

But to be honest, I just want my bigger pistol to be different from what I already own, and will own. My M91/30 is barely blued and has a shellacked birch stock. A Nagant has a similar, reddish hue or some were bakelite and the same color as the wood. I don't think I could have a bigger departure from these old Soviet guns if I went Glock. What I like about the Glock is that it is less rust prone, it's got a bigger capacity, and Glock has a very good customer service policy. If it's a Glock, they'll fix it.

Call me nuts, but I do like the way the Glock looks. And I've held a Para Ordnance M1911, it was heavy! Sure heaviness reduces recoil, but if you really want to bark up the carry tree, heavy and bulky isn't a better thing.


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## kerrycork (Jan 9, 2012)

I saw my first Remington 1911 a couple days ago, it belongs to a friend. I fired 20 rounds and the gun handles like a 1911. Yep its heavy like a 1911 but I most certainly wold not classify it as over priced junk . I've had a few of these guns in my day and that gives me something to compare with. 
Metal to metal fit is very good, Nice finish. Just a good gun and it shoots very well. Oh well thats only my opinion. I carry a 1911 quite often but then I'm just an old gun-nut.


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## Easy_CZ (Jul 20, 2012)

In that price range, your best bet is a used Colt or a Ruger SR1911.


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