# Les Baer Monolith Heavyweight - First Report



## Flight_Medic (Aug 22, 2016)

Well I finally got the new LB to the range this week, and while I was extremely pleased with the accuracy, I was a bit disappointed in the multiple malfunctions I experienced. Now granted, I went into the range expecting problems as I've read several posts about similar issues within the first 500 rounds of a Les Baer. I brought 500 rounds of American Eagle 230gr FMJ for this outing, and also brought a Wilson Combat 500B magazine along with the two LB factory magazines just for comparison.

The first magazine into the shoot (LB factory mag), on round #6, I had an OOB malfunction. The slide stopped about a 1/4" from full battery and it was difficult to get the slide open to eject the round. Had to grip the slide and jam the frame forward to break open. This malf happened several times intermittently throughout the shoot, and happened with all three magazines. The other common malfunction was failure of the slide to lock back after last round. This happened more frequently than the OOB malf, and again this happened with all three magazines. I added a bit of oil to the rails after the first 100 rounds in hopes that would help...it did not. I also got barked at for having gun lube out on the bay...fascists.

Out of the 350 rounds I shot (I did not finish the last 150 rounds because my hands were getting fatigued trying to get the slide open on the OOB malfs) I had a total of *8 OOB malfs*, approx *12 failure to lock back on empty*, and *one FTF* (pictured below) which happened on the very last magazine. Just FYI...there was no limp-wristing to blame, to rule-out any operator error I had a very experienced range officer (and LB Premier II owner) shoot the gun, and he experienced one OOB malf on his second mag. His advice was "buy Chip McCormick mags".










I should have brought a different brand ammo as well to rule that out, so my return visit with be with Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ.

Now for the good part...the accuracy. Please keep in mind, I'm a hack. I've never shot competitively and I don't get to the range very often these days. With that said, I shot the HELL outta this pistol...it made me look like a WAY better shooter than I really am. The photo below was off-hand at 15 yards. Granted, I was taking around 3-5 seconds between shots, but that's the BEST I'VE EVER DONE at that distance with ANY pistol...period!! Any of my other pistols would have produced a grouping two-to-three times that size.










The high "forehead" shot was the first one out of the barrel, the subsequent 23 shots I was able to group below, and I was aiming for in-between the ears. Not a super tight group...but no left or right flyers, which is unusual for me. I usually pull at least one or two low-left.

If I can get the malfunctions resolved, this will be my absolute favorite pistol to shoot. I will post an update with the different ammo.


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## Flight_Medic (Aug 22, 2016)

*UPDATE*

I was informed by another LB owner that the LB pistols need to run "wet" (soaked in lube) for the first 500+ rounds, so I went back to the range with a gun dripping in CLP, but the problems persisted. However, they are NOT as random as I first thought, and there seemed to be a consistent and repeatable pattern emerging.

Brought another 250 rounds of 230gr American Eagle and 100 rounds of 230gr Speer Lawman. I started with the AE ammo, and I got a misfeed (which looked exactly like the photo above) on the very first magazine on round #7. I decided to break out the Speer Lawman and tried it with the WC mag but got a OOB fail, so that mag went back into the range bag since it clearly isn't doing any better than the factory mags.

The rest of the visit was exclusively shot with the two LB factory mags. Using the American Eagle again I got another OOB fail and a failure to lock slide back. But it seemed like one mag was performing better than the other, so I decided to label them with a sharpie (respectively) #1 and #2. Here is what I observed...

Mag #1 with Speer Lawman = 8 rounds/no hiccups
Mag #2 with Speer Lawman = 8 rounds with failure to lock back slide

Mag #1 with Speer = another 8 rounds/no hiccups
Mag #2 with Speer = failure to lock back slide after last round again!!

Set Mag #2 aside and used Mag #1 exclusively for next 48 rounds until I finally got a FTF, again on the 7th round (round 46 of 48). Cleared and reloaded the problem round and it shot the remaining two.

Switched back to American Eagle and the results were pretty similar.

Mag #1 ran well consistently with one OOB fail.
Mag #2 shot all rounds but failed to lock slide back EVERY TIME.

The very last magazine I got another misfeed in Mag #1...and again on the 7th round. Hmmm?? Disappointed, I packed up and called it a day. I called LB but they had already closed for the weekend, so I left a message.

The next Monday I called again and spoke with Les Baer regarding my repeated malfunctions with the Monolith Heavyweight. Les was very polite and helpful on our call, even though he knew I was calling with a malfunctioning pistol (because of the message), and after introducing myself on the phone his first words were "Oh, the guy from Dallas. Yes, I got your message. I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to return you call, it's been a busy Monday." That's NOT the Les I was warned about...guess I caught him on a good day&#8230;we even talked a bit about competition shooting and "old eyes".

Anyway, after a few questions from Les regarding my ammo selection (ONLY use American Eagle 230gr), my total round count (NO LESS than 500 round break-in), which magazines were used during the malfunctions (ONLY use LB factory magazines) and my lubrication technique (ONLY use Break Free CLP)&#8230;all which met his approval&#8230; he suggested that I disassemble, clean and re-lubricate the pistol (again using ONLY "Break Free CLP"). He also suggested I do the same with the magazines, load them with no less than the maximum 8 rounds and then let them sit for at least 24-hours before going back to the range. He said he felt very confident that this would resolve the issues I was having, and asked me to give him a call with my results. I wasn't sure WHAT this was going to accomplish, but this man knows a Hell of a lot more about the 1911 pistol than I ever will&#8230;so who am I to argue. Following Les' suggestions I went back to the range with a clean, lubricated (wet) pistol and two cleaned, lubricated LB mags that sat loaded with 8 rounds for 48 hours prior to shooting. My very first mag (again, Magazine #1 on ROUND #7) had a misfeed. Magazine #2 had a complete failure to feed (never grabbed round #7) and again the slide was very difficult to rack. Once I got it free I shot last two rounds of Mag 2 and it failed to lock back slide on empty. After just 16 rounds there was no need to go any further that day. The gun needs to be returned.

I decided to make one last desperate attempt before sending the gun back to LB, and that was to try quality aftermarket magazines. Brought two brand new Tripp Research Cobra mags to the range along with the two Baer factory magazines (also ordered two CMC Power mags, but they had yet to arrive from Brownells and I became impatient).
Just to make sure the gun didn't miraculously cure itself, I started with the LB mags ...which performed EXACTLY as before (mag #1 had misfeed round 7, mag#2 fails to lock slide after last round).

Switch to the Cobra mags...16 rounds, no hiccups...32 rounds, no hiccups...48...64... in fact, for the next 184 rounds, they perform FLAWLESSLY with ZERO failures. Well I'll be damned. I really wish I had brought more ammo with me, I really wanted to keep going to see if I could get the gun to fail. I truly thought I was going to experience the same OOB fails I had with the Wilson Combat 500B, but alas I did not...they worked like magic. The next day the new CMC Power Mags arrived, and the Monolith had three failure to fire malfunctions with one of the mags (same mag on all three fails), again due to slide not fully going into battery. Part of me just wanted to continue to use and enjoy the gun exclusively with the TRC mags, but the overwhelming consensus from fellow 1911 owners was that the pistol should work with the majority of magazines out there, not just one brand&#8230;so send it back to Les. If he gets it to work with HIS magazines, it should work with the aftermarket mags. So I put the factory grips back on and shipped the pistol back on Sept 18th.

I received my Monolith Heavyweight back on Sept 26th, which was very impressive considering it was a five (business) day turn-around. My invoice read the following...

*Installed new barrel link
*Adjusted Slide Stop
*Checked over complete pistol & test fired

I couldn't wait to get it to the range...so much so that I chose not to wait for my American Eagle 230gr to arrive and used the Speer Lawman 230gr I had remaining on hand. I did NOT share this with Les because I knew his response would be to blame the ammo (which runs fine in both my other 1911's), but low and behold...*THE PISTOL WAS WORSE*!!









(_*slide locks back without grabbing the last round*_)

It jams almost every other round, and that includes the Tripp Research Cobra mags that worked so flawlessly before I shipped it back to LB. Mostly OOB fails, but also the feeding issues were exponentially more frequent, and a few (pictured above) where the slide locked back while there were still rounds left to shoot!! First malf happened on round #3 and things went downhill from there.

I spoke with Les again on the 27th, and he was not so pleasant this time around. Started off with an angry "OK, hold on a minute now..." then proceeded to inform me that he "personally fired 100-rounds through [my] pistol and it ran like a Swiss clock". I asked him what he did to fix the initial problem, and he replied "I dont have your invoice in front of me". So...he remembers shooting my pistol, but not fixing it?? It was difficult for me to dial back the level of my displeasure after discovering I once again will have to pay ANOTHER $60 to ship it back for round two...but I feel I am at his mercy and if I piss him off I'm afraid my pistol will be put at the bottom of the pile. He offered to give me "three of four new magazines" for my trouble, but I would rather him offer to cover shipping BOTH ways this time. Granted, Les IS willing to fix my pistol&#8230;but at an ongoing cost to me for what is clearly a quality control issue just seems VERY unfair.









(_*from left to right - TRC mags, CMC mags and Bear factory mags*_)

Before I sent it back I wanted to make certain the ammo was not to blame. I went back to the range after my case of American Eagle 230 grain arrived and, sure enough, this pistol did significantly better with AE ammo. Out of 250 rounds I had only three malfs - two OOB's and one failure to feed. Still not acceptable, and I certainly dont want a pistol that I can only use one type of ammo with...who would.

Here is a video of the last range visit.






(Yes, I know I was milking my left hand...I had Ballistol on my hands and couldn't maintain friction in my grip).

I'm not sure what to do now. I had moments where the gun ran through 50 rounds without a hiccup. I'm have no idea how many rounds Les will test fire, but I'm afraid with the inconsistency it's having he is not going to be able to repeat the malfunctions and I will just waste another $60 in shipping. There is approx 1300 rounds through the pistol at this point, so break-in should be well accomplished. If it comes back with problems again I will either sell it and take a major hit, or send it to another pistolsmith to get it running properly. However, with that PLUS multiple aftermarket magazine purchases and $120 in shipping, it would put the true cost for this pistol squarely in the price range of a Wilson Combat...which is a cost I couldn't justify in the first place.

Either way, this is the last Les Baer I will ever purchase.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

The moral of the story: Two grand will not always get you a good 1911. That's really a shame. Especially when there are God only knows how many 1911's out there that sell for a lot less. For two grand or so you really shouldn't have to break it in. Especially for a gun from a custom gun manufacturer. Myself? I could never justify paying two grand or more for any 1911.

I paid around $500 for a brand new EAA Witness, not that I needed another .45, I don't. But I just liked the look and feel of this pistol. For around $500 I expected to have to break it in. The damn thing worked straight outta' the box from the get go without any malfunctions whatsoever. Is it my favorite .45? No, I rarely carry it, but it's a good value for the money. I know that you should put enough rounds out of a gun to assure yourself that the gun will not malfunction when and if your life may depend on it. But if you ask me they should all work straight outta' the box without any problems. It's really unconscionable to go out and spend good money for a pistol and then have to spend an additional several hundred dollars on ammo in order for it to function without issue. It's kinda' like going out and buying a brand new vehicle and the dealer informs you that you will break down any number of times until you've put 10,000 miles on it.

From my own personal experience all of my HK's, Glocks, Sig's, CZ's and Springfield's have all worked straight outta' the box. Even my Kimber's who people love to bash have all worked without issue. However I haven't put that many rounds out of the Kimber's to make a fair assessment as of yet. But anytime that I have shot them they have worked and with all types of ammo. I also have a Colt 1911 that only functions well with hardball, hollow points are iffy. I've got a Detonics Combat Master 1911 that works with anything, my favorite 1911. For EDC it's either HK, Glock or Sig for me. I trust my CZ's and Springfield's as well and have carried them too. But those three I find myself carrying the most. I don't know? Personal preference I guess? Not to mention I prefer striker's. For a DA/SA semi auto it's Sig all the way. They're exceptionally well made with a great DA trigger. CZ's are a little gritty and not machined quite as well as a Sig but they do work and are great guns besides.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Nothing irritates me more than a gun manufacturer (or their trained robotic employee) making asinine excuses for their gun not functioning - "Insufficient lube, needs break in, bad ammo, bad magazines, improper cleaning." Nothing more than attempts to avoid honoring their warranty & covering up their cost-cutting manufacturing shortcuts.
Your gun may or may not be indicative of Les Baer's current quality control or incompetent employees, but one thing is certain: Your gun is defective.
I suggest you voice your disgust with Les Baer personally (not his employee). My guess is he dumped the gun on one of his low-paid, beginner, know-nothing "gunsmiths" who tinkered with it & lied about test firing it - with or without Mr. Baer's blessing.

I experienced something similar several years ago with a new Henry 44 Mag. rifle. It wouldn't feed or eject. I shipped it to Henry, along with a detailed letter describing the malfunctions. I got it back (also with a document that listed parts replaced & also said "Test fired, perfect.") It was worse than before; it wouldn't even feed three rounds without malfunctioning. "Test fired?" Possibly...in their dreams.
My next letter was to the company president (Mr. Imperato) & it WASN'T nice like the first one. I mentioned their ads making a big deal about their rifles being "Made in America & paying $800.00 for the nicest looking, non-functioning piece of CRAP I've ever owned. He phoned me personally, apologizing. To his credit, he sent me a replacement rifle, but I didn't want to risk waiting two more months for another incompetent repair & gave it to the dealer & chose a Marlin - that functioned.


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## Flight_Medic (Aug 22, 2016)

desertman said:


> <snip> I paid around $500 for a brand new EAA Witness, not that I needed another .45, I don't. But I just liked the look and feel of this pistol. For around $500 I expected to have to break it in. The damn thing worked straight outta' the box from the get go without any malfunctions whatsoever. Is it my favorite .45? </snip>


Good choice. I really like the Witness...of course, I'm a big fan of all-metal handguns. I have CZs (97B and 75B) that I like very much...neither one has ever had a hiccup. My favorite .45 is my Sig P220, but...if I can get the issues fixed...the Monolith will have stolen its spot. I am insanely accurate and precise with this pistol, I think its because of the trigger...its phenomenal.

You're absolutely correct that a price is no guarantee, I know guys who purchased $4K Nighthawk and Guncrafter 1911's that had to be returned for mechanical issues. My issue is not so much with the gun as it is with THE MAN. Any pistol can have issues...but if there is a quality control issue with a product, the owner shouldn't charge the customer for shipping...and CERTAINLY NOT after getting on the phone and informing the customer that the product is perfect, and that THEY "must be doing something wrong". I've heard Ed Brown can be kind of a dick as well, but Les Baer definitely wins the "piss-poor customer service from a cantankerous bastard" award. Denying a mechanical issue and blaming the end-user for the malfunctions pretty much says it all.

Thing is, I knew LB's reputation and that his pistols could be problematic BEFORE I purchased it...but I couldn't help myself, I simply fell in love with the look of the Monolith. So I rolled the dice.









(_*handmade custom grips by Hakan Pek*_)

.


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## Flight_Medic (Aug 22, 2016)

win231 said:


> Nothing irritates me more than a gun manufacturer (or their trained robotic employee) making asinine excuses for their gun not functioning - "Insufficient lube, needs break in, bad ammo, bad magazines, improper cleaning." <snip> I suggest you voice your disgust with Les Baer personally (not his employee). <snip>


Oh dont be confused, Les IS the one I spoke with...both times. I believe he's the only one who takes phone calls regarding malfunctioning pistols, and he's the one you have to stroke to get the gun fixed in a timely manner. You go at him head-on, your repair will end up forgotten about in the Land of Misfit Toys. I dont want to wait 3 months to get my pistol back...so its honey you must use, not vinegar.


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## Flight_Medic (Aug 22, 2016)

_deleted_


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Flight_Medic said:


> Just FYI...there was no limp-wristing to blame,


Oh heck. A missed opportunity for someone to diagnose LIMP WRISTING .... again. :smt002 Sorry, could't resist.

I know how you feel, only to a much smaller $ amount.

Ruger was happy to keep working on my SR9c but I lost any and all faith in the gun and sold it at a loss.
Beretta was NOT happy keep to working on my next 9mm attempt, a PX4 Compact, which made me lose any and all faith in Beretta.
I do believe the Beretta was finally fixed but by then it was one year old and out of warranty. Due to my on 'hard hardheadedness' about customer service I sold out at an even larger loss.
As luck would have it the next nine, a $1000.00 Sig, had problems too.
The saving grace? Sig was happy to fix it and it stayed fixed. That was nearly 3000 rounds fired ago. I would buy Sig again without fear.
I would also buy Ruger again if I felt sure that the design was solid or if the firearm was to be nothing more than a range toy.
I have to have *total confidence* in any firearm used for SD. I have that with Sig, Ruger maybe, and Less Bear is above my pay grade anyway.

Sometimes you just gotta 'bite the bullet', take a loss, dump that aggravation of a pistol and try again... and again.

Sam


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

My take on this story?

I wouldn't buy a pistol, or buy the work on my pistol, from someone who was too far away to talk with in person, face-to-face.
I want to see the shop, meet the worker(s), and know who is actually responsible and involved.

There are exceptions to my rule, of course.
I would send a pistol for work to Terry Tussey's shop, even though he's far off, because he once "bent over backward" to get some special 1911 magazines to me as quickly as possible. I dealt over the phone with Mr. Tussey himself, and he was friendly and polite, and he did exactly what he promised to do.
I am now too arthritic, and out-of-practice, to make my own holsters. So I've had holsters made for me by Robert Mika, Bob Mernickle, and Ed Buffaloe, and I've bought ready-made holsters and belts from Galco. None of these shops are anywhere near me, but all of them deliver first-rate products every time.
Because I can no longer do decent leatherwork, I've bought gun belts from Bullhide Belts. I am confident in their products and I am happy to recommend them to anyone who needs a really good belt.

My own 1911s, and several other firearms, received the blessed touch of Chuck Ries. Chuck did the best trigger jobs in the entire world, and could deliver a 1911 which would feed empty cases from any magazine you cared to put into it.
Chuck's home-and-shop was within five miles of my home, back when I lived in Los Angeles, so I could talk to him face-to-face about any problem I might experience. We got to be good friends, and he allowed me to work in his shop on my own projects, as well as to watch him work on my guns and those of other customers. (No, I can't do a trigger job. Don't ask.)

Find a pistolsmith who is within a reasonable travel-radius of your home, and get to know him (or her) personally.
The pistolsmith doesn't have to be the most talented worker out there, but complete honesty about what can and what cannot be done is a most desirable attribute.
Cultivate his (or her) friendship.
Do that, and you'll get the best service possible.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

If you get rid of the gun, I call dibbs on the grips 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Flight_Medic said:


> Good choice. I really like the Witness...of course, I'm a big fan of all-metal handguns. I have CZs (97B and 75B) that I like very much...neither one has ever had a hiccup. My favorite .45 is my Sig P220, but...if I can get the issues fixed...the Monolith will have stolen its spot. I am insanely accurate and precise with this pistol, I think its because of the trigger...its phenomenal.
> 
> You're absolutely correct that a price is no guarantee, I know guys who purchased $4K Nighthawk and Guncrafter 1911's that had to be returned for mechanical issues. My issue is not so much with the gun as it is with THE MAN. Any pistol can have issues...but if there is a quality control issue with a product, the owner shouldn't charge the customer for shipping...and CERTAINLY NOT after getting on the phone and informing the customer that the product is perfect, and that THEY "must be doing something wrong". I've heard Ed Brown can be kind of a dick as well, but Les Baer definitely wins the "piss-poor customer service from a cantankerous bastard" award. Denying a mechanical issue and blaming the end-user for the malfunctions pretty much says it all.
> 
> ...


That is one nice looking gun, that's for sure. I can understand why you bought it. It really is a shame that you're having so many problems with it. For two or so grand you should have no issues whatsoever. You could buy two Sig's for that amount of money. I would think that for that amount of money your paying for the extra time and care that normally wouldn't be put into a mass produced pistol? It was not very smart for Les Baer to have treated you that way. He should have bent over backwards to accommodate you. Getting a bad reputation for customer service will end up costing him more in the long run. Custom 1911's are a lot tighter than their commercially made counterparts in order to increase their accuracy. Therein lies the problems. It's been my experience with 1911's that they should rattle a little bit in order to be reliable. But what good is pin point accuracy if the gun doesn't function reliably? You don't need that kind of accuracy for close range situations as most pistols were designed for.

I too have a Sig P220 but I've never even fired it as of yet. I've got other Sig's as well that I have fired without any issues except for their extended 14 round magazine for the P227 .45. It turns the P227 into a single shot pistol. I've got 6 standard 10 round mags that all work flawlessly. I can't for the life of me figure out why it doesn't work as it is identical in every way to the 10 round mags except it's about an inch longer. They come standard on Sig's Tacops version of the P227. I also had one issue with one out of six magazines for my FN's. Sometimes it helps to fully load the magazines and let them sit for a few days. But that didn't solve the problem with either of those two particular mags.

I've got both all metal and polymer framed handguns. At one time I would never have even considered a polymer framed gun. At this point in time I can't really pick a favorite as I prefer striker fired pistols for EDC of which most if not all modern striker fired pistols are polymer framed. Of those and of all my polymer framed pistols HK wins hands down. They are outstanding pistols in every respect in my own personal opinion.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Flight_Medic said:


> Oh dont be confused, Les IS the one I spoke with...both times. I believe he's the only one who takes phone calls regarding malfunctioning pistols, and he's the one you have to stroke to get the gun fixed in a timely manner. You go at him head-on, your repair will end up forgotten about in the Land of Misfit Toys. I dont want to wait 3 months to get my pistol back...so its honey you must use, not vinegar.


Well....OK. You used honey & your pistol was "worse than before the repair....." Remember the story about the fly trying to get out & he keeps hitting the window?

Mr. Baer is giving you the classic runaround without a reacharound. And he'd rather give you free magazines than pay your shipping costs because that's cheaper for him.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

SamBond said:


> Oh heck. A missed opportunity for someone to diagnose LIMP WRISTING .... again. :smt002 Sorry, could't resist.
> 
> I know how you feel, only to a much smaller $ amount.
> 
> ...


My God, I'd stay away from Vegas if I were you.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

SamBond said:


> Oh heck. A missed opportunity for someone to diagnose LIMP WRISTING .... again. :smt002 Sorry, could't resist.
> 
> I know how you feel, only to a much smaller $ amount.
> 
> ...


HAHA. Thanks - I forgot to mention the "Limp Wristing" excuse.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

This what I have harped on before. I have seen it time after time. Les Baer and Kimber are the two biggest offender's in my experience. I think I may have posted the story of two LEO's that were on a Federal Law Enforcement range I was instructing on. The LEOSA bill had come into play and the rush was on for CCW handgun's. These two guy's had Kimber's that they had spent $1200.00 and $1400.00 on. Very big money at the time. Malfunction after malfunction, never got through a whole magazine. To add insult to injury a guy with a big, ugly Hi Point was shooting magazine after magazine right next to them. I saw them both later and they said the Kimber rep's had told them to basically shoot 500 rounds to break in the gun's. That is so much BS. Not that long ago I fulfilled my lust for a CZ97b. Roughly $800.00, not cheap, but not a fortune either. Cleaned and oiled it out of the box, then put 200 rounds of FMJ and 185 HP's and 230 Grain +p's. Guess what? No malfunctions of any kind. No break in, no worries. I would never trust one of these "Golden" .45's as a CCW. Say you shoot the 500 rounds of break in shots, but it jams on the 499th shot? How confident will you EVER be with the gun? I'd much rather be carrying a $500.00 Glock that I know is going to work than a $2,000.00 .45 that might not. End of rant.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

OOPs!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Tangof said:


> This what I have harped on before. I have seen it time after time. Les Baer and Kimber are the two biggest offender's in my experience. I think I may have posted the story of two LEO's that were on a Federal Law Enforcement range I was instructing on. The LEOSA bill had come into play and the rush was on for CCW handgun's. These two guy's had Kimber's that they had spent $1200.00 and $1400.00 on. Very big money at the time. Malfunction after malfunction, never got through a whole magazine. To add insult to injury a guy with a big, ugly Hi Point was shooting magazine after magazine right next to them. *I saw them both later and they said the Kimber rep's had told them to basically shoot 500 rounds to break in the gun's. That is so much BS. * Not that long ago I fulfilled my lust for a CZ97b.  Roughly $800.00, not cheap, but not a fortune either. Cleaned and oiled it out of the box, then put 200 rounds of FMJ and 185 HP's and 230 Grain +p's. Guess what? No malfunctions of any kind. No break in, no worries. I would never trust one of these "Golden" .45's as a CCW. Say you shoot the 500 rounds of break in shots, but it jams on the 499th shot? How confident will you EVER be with the gun? I'd much rather be carrying a $500.00 Glock that I know is going to work than a $2,000.00 .45 that might not. End of rant.


I agree. After shelling out your hard earned money for a gun it should work straight outta' the box with out having to spend a few hundred dollars worth of ammo to break it in. Putting a few hundred rounds or so out of any gun does not wear the parts in that much to any appreciable degree especially if it's well lubricated as some manufacturers suggest. A lot of problems are with the magazines and not the gun itself. A gun should work even if it's filthy dirty as many will get when used under adverse conditions out in the field. The tighter the gun, chances are that it will malfunction more often. Same if the machining of parts are rough as there is more friction to overcome.

Then of course there is indeed the occasional limp wristing that people like to joke about. Obviously a semi auto needs to have enough resistance during recoil to enable the slide to fully retract, eject the spent round and chamber a fresh one. Often people will blame the gun and not themselves. I'd be almost 100% certain that most of us have occasionally limp wristed a semi auto and experienced a malfunction due to that at least once. Sometimes when you're out blasting away you may not even realize you limp wristed the gun in the midst of all that blasting. It's a different story though if the gun malfunctions all the time especially in the hands of an experienced shooter. Chances are then that it's the gun and not the shooter.

Last but not least manufacturing defects and or weak springs that can cause problems along with crappy ammo. I guess I can consider myself very lucky. I have a wide variety of handguns and as of yet had any real issues. Except for my S&W Model 29 that I had put so many rounds through that I wore out the forcing cone. I swapped out the 8 3/8ths barrel for a 4 incher. The gun works fine now, the timing's still good and it's not loose. Although I don't shoot my .44 Magnums that often anymore. The Rugers are built like tanks, I don't think you could ever wear one of those out? Come to think of it I really don't know why I bought them other than wanting a big old .44 and the desire to make a lot of noise and feel the concussion course through my body. I've still got 6 of them though. I don't know if that's good or bad?


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