# has any one had to pull there gun



## faststang90 (Apr 8, 2013)

the other day i had a guy run a stop sign and about hit me. i honked my horn at him and he gave me the bird and hit his brakes trying to make me hit him. he was throwing stuff out of his truck at my truck. i got into the other lane and was able to go pass him. as i was passing him i thru a 20 oz coke at his truck. not sure if i hit his truck. i was just trying to get away from him. he got into the lane next to me that he did not have to stop. he hit my truck with a 1 liter coke. i went after him to get his plate and he had pulled to the side of the road. i pulled over to get his plate number. i was about 50 feet from him. i had him coming at me saying he was going to f me up. i told him i had my chl and had my gun on me. he said you better use it. he got about 25 feet from me. i was telling him to stop and he keep walking at me saying he was going to f me up. he got about 15 feet from me and i pulled my gun and he stopped. he was saying i was lucky because he was going to f me up. i did not want to shot him and i did not know if he was going to stay back so i drove off and called 911. the 911 person told me i needed to go to the police station. i had to turn around to go there. on my way to the cops he pulled into my lane and stopped in the road. he jumped out of his truck and i drove around him. i got away from him and called 911 back and told them he was after me. i could see him coming so i drove faster to get away. the 911 person told me to get some where out of the way of him. i pulled in and waited on the cops. i was arrested for pulling my gun. im i screwed. the cops took there story on it all. saying i was after them from the start.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

You had several opportunities to be the bigger man here, but you chose to retaliate instead. I know Texas is cool on self defense, but your actions will be viewed as escalating the situation. In court, you will have to justify drawing your firearm. Since you chose to engage this individual, you cannot claim that you were in fear for your life. I've been in similar situations, but sometimes we have to swallow our pride and walk/drive away rather than get caught up in something you cannot justify. By your account, this person was a serious asshole, unfortunately, you chose to drop to his level. Had you taken the high ground, you would not be looking at some serious consequences. I would imagine at the very least, you will lose your right to carry.


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## faststang90 (Apr 8, 2013)

yeah im going to talk to a lawer next week. i can show he came after me a second time after i had already pulled a gun. so im not sure whats going to happen. i have never been arrested before and never been in any trouble. i know i should have just stopped and let him drive on.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Your first and biggest mistake was when you threw a 20 oz coke at his truck when you passed him. From that point on it all went down hill........... Good luck........


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Sounds like the battle of the cokes, 1liter vs 20 ounces. Hire an attorney, has the DA filed charges yet? At the first instance you should have either let it go or called the police.


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## Ksgunner (Aug 17, 2013)

Wearing a gun means added responsibilities. Anger management is one thing I really need to work on when I have my gun with me. My instructors said to remember that every thing you do, there is a gun involved. That being said I have not yet needed to draw my weapon on anyone or anything. I hope it remains that way.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

The problem is, you were part of the problem. You were involved in its inception and its escalation. This removes the vale of innocence from you and until you get it back, you cannot claim self defense. You would have to retreat until you could no longer do so safely while telling your antagonist that you do not want trouble... do not want to fight before you could regain your innocence.

Now I'm not certain that's how it goes in Texas but the is that case in my state. Had the other man been the aggressor all along and you had not been part of the initialization or escalation of the encounter, you would be able to stand your ground and use whatever force is necessary to repel an attack.

Lastly, if the guy was coming at you to "f you up" and was unarmed, there had better be a significant disparity of force in some way (age, physical size and condition, etc.) before you pull a gun on him.


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## faststang90 (Apr 8, 2013)

Lastly, if the guy was coming at you to "f you up" and was unarmed, there had better be a significant disparity of force in some way (age, physical size and condition, etc.) before you pull a gun on him. 

im am disabled. i had a bad bike wreck about 5 years ago. i had a bad head injury and had to have a shunt installed in my head. if someone hits me in the head it could kill me. i had told him to stop and he keep coming at me. so i fell he was the aggressor. i know i should have just called it in


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

faststang90 said:


> Lastly, if the guy was coming at you to "f you up" and was unarmed, there had better be a significant disparity of force in some way (age, physical size and condition, etc.) before you pull a gun on him.
> 
> im am disabled. i had a bad bike wreck about 5 years ago. i had a bad head injury and had to have a shunt installed in my head. if someone hits me in the head it could kill me. i had told him to stop and he keep coming at me. so i fell he was the aggressor. i know i should have just called it in


That would fall under the umbrella of a significant disparity. I have osteoarthritis in both knees, (had a total knee replacement for the right knee last year) and recent lower open back surgery (decompression and fusion) so I would also be at a serious disadvantage. The thing you don't want to do is to be considered part of the problem... an instigator, initiator, or one who escalates the situation.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

During my LE career, I responded to many road rage incidents that went very bad. One can talk all day long about what to do or how to handle just such a situation. 

But, at the end of the day, it was the person that drove away from it that turned out best. If you can get a license plate number, great! If you can't, drive away and be safe. 

In this day and age, not too many disputes are settled anymore by simply putting up your fists and punching it out. Kind of tough to take stock in your pride when you're dead.


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## jasmine2501 (Oct 10, 2012)

The OP situation is a fight. Back and forth had already happened. If you had fired a gun, you would be in serious trouble. You started a fight. Guns aren't for that.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

paratrooper said:


> During my LE career, I responded to many road rage incidents that went very bad. One can talk all day long about what to do or how to handle just such a situation.
> 
> But, at the end of the day, it was the person that drove away from it that turned out best. If you can get a license plate number, great! If you can't, drive away and be safe.
> 
> In this day and age, not too many disputes are settled anymore by simply putting up your fists and punching it out. Kind of tough to take stock in your pride when you're dead.


Ah, very good advice as if from shaolin master. :mrgreen: Very true.


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## Tip (Aug 22, 2012)

If your actions would have been different had you been unarmed (and I suspect they would have) then you screwed up by escalating the confrontation.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> During my LE career, I responded to many road rage incidents that went very bad. One can talk all day long about what to do or how to handle just such a situation.
> 
> But, at the end of the day, it was the person that drove away from it that turned out best. If you can get a license plate number, great! If you can't, drive away and be safe.
> 
> In this day and age, not too many disputes are settled anymore by simply putting up your fists and punching it out. Kind of tough to take stock in your pride when you're dead.


Excellent post and so true.


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## Fishwiz4 (Oct 6, 2012)

I am very interested to hear what happens, but i have to question if it is a good idea to be talking about this online durring an open investigation. be carefull with what you say and report back when you can.


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## Vodoun da Vinci (Apr 6, 2007)

Amen with the keeping quiet until this is settled. In Illinois, you just assaulted the guy who told *you* he was gonna F you up. You can't threaten deadly force on someone in this situation unless you had witnesses who heard him assault you first.

This was a bad deal all around and I'd caution you to be more aware if you are gonna carry...you escalated the situation. All you had to do was take "the finger" and leave it at that which is a lot easier than shooting another human that you just picked a fight with.

I caution myself daily to use "dojo etiquette" when I get my CCW. Folks with concealed guns are a role model and we have tough shoes to fill and we need to be more level headed and aware and not allow ourselves to get drawn into a situation that can become deadly when we can just walk away. Hopefully this will pass as just another incident and won't end up in court. 

Good luck to you.

VooDoo


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## faststang90 (Apr 8, 2013)

yeah i talked to a lawyer today and its 5,000 to take this. im going to stop talking about this till its over.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

When I am carrying, I always take the path of least resistance.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

To directly answer your question; I have never had to deploy my firearm. I make it a point to avoid any conflict whenever I can. The only place I ever have a drink is @ my sportsmens club, never any problems there. I do not carry when I go there for dinner or to meet the guys for a drink or two.
My situational awareness is very high, including looking in windows to watch behind me, etc.
If I thought I would have to deploy my firearm at a certain location, I certainly would not be there.
As for road rage... I just let it go! Makes me a bigger man for it!! I'm no pu$$y... just smart enough to know what to avoid!!


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

you could have made out a police report,, that you guys were playing around , thought you knew the man.
there was no road rage on your part, case of mistaken identity
until he approached your vehicle . that is point where the line may have been crossed. you had no choice to diffuse the situation.


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## faststang90 (Apr 8, 2013)

i hired my lawyer today and he said the police did do a lot of stuff wrong when they did their paper work. he said he is 99% sure they will drop it because all the stuff they did wrong. i told him it was a guy and a girl. the police paper says a guy. no name for him or anything and they did not say anything about the girl. so he says they cant put her in if we go to court.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I hope it works out for you and that you don't lose your permit. I


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## jumperj (Sep 22, 2013)

The way I look at this is simple. When I carry, I have the power to take a human life. That power is not to be taken lightly and when faced with an idiot like him, I say to myself "God forgive him for he knows not what he does." Then I swallow my pride and move along, with the satisfaction of knowing, if it came down to it, I would have won the fight. It does no good to lose your temper, as you probably realize now. You can't fix stupid, Just consider the source and move on.


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## KampfJaeger (Sep 25, 2013)

I've been told by several firearms instructors, including the guy who did my CCW, that carrying a firearm changes your whole perspective. I would say if that's the case you probably shouldn't be carrying it. If you act differently and perceive the world differently just because you carry a pistol you are most likely going to get into trouble with it.

A pistol is just a tool. You are the weapon. The pistol only provides a final option, when you've exhausted all others, that you would otherwise not have. If you look at it differently and behave differently because you carry...see the OP. Carrying a firearm in civilized society is not power, it's responsibility. 

When I was serving I read a fictional book, but there was a passage in it that really resonated with me at the time and now, because I believe it's true. It went something like: 

“I do not aim with my hand. I aim with my eye. I do not shoot with my hand. I shoot with my mind. I do not kill with my gun. I kill with my heart.” Maybe semantics, but semantics I happen to agree with. 

Being prepared to take a life is part of carrying a pistol, but like anything else, if it changes you or starts negatively impacting the life you're living you should get rid of it, and take your chances without it. Your chances are very good without it, and living your life and pursuing your happiness is what's important. I'm not a police officer. If I pull my pistol and point it at someone I'm using it instantly...with no hesitation. Once I pull it there is no turning back for me, and I don't plan on ever allowing myself to get into that situation. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than to have to use deadly force, because I'm an old soldier, and I can smell trouble an hour before I can see it. I make sure I'm long gone by the time it gets to where I was standing.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

^ Your perspective should change when carrying... you should avoid confrontation more than ever and take the high road, swallow your pride at times... that's what your instructors meant, and it's the same advice I give my students... it's good advice... just like being more aware of your body position & surroundings.

"Kill with your heart"?... not sure I agree with any part of that saying. It's a mindset of preparedness... not personal or emotional thing for me. I just want to always come home to my family after my shift.

Also interesting how you've pre-determined that if your gun comes out, your pulling that trigger... even if the situation de-escalates. Might want to think that one over unless you like prison. Every time your gun comes out you should be PREPARED to use it, but every situation is different and de-escalation of a threat could mean the difference between a Self Defense Shooting or being charged with a crime. I know we're talking fractions of a second in judgement, but I think drilling into your head that if your gun is presented it has to be used dosen't make sense to me (maybe others agree) and sounds like a recipe for disaster. I'm not advocating using your gun to frighten off or scare attackers either... just saying if it comes out, be prepared to use it... but know you may not always have to. Obviously when your deployed and downrange it's a different set of circumstances than the on the streets at home.

Just my thoughts, everyone is entitled to their opinon though. My thoughts on CCW/CPL & Deadly Force are based on my being an active LEO, Certified Trainer for handgun/rifle/CPL and my USMC background (over 20 yrs total).


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I would agree, the situation can change , as you say de-escalate , and the old saying "don't pull your gun unless you 're going to use it" 
Is just "an old saying"


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## ccrighter (Sep 21, 2013)

You are correct, it does change your attitude... But it's one that I am not willing to change.
As I said in a thread before, I feel if I ever do have to defend myself, having a S&W 45 on my person, I will stand a good chance of survival.
Here in urban Richmond, Virginia, we have had several, almost daily, muggings/robberies. As a contractor, I often go into or through the high crime areas, including VCU, which has a student body that exceeds 35,000. Drug addicts are walking the streets, looking for money for their next hit, often robbing in broad daylight. 
I refuse to be a victim...
When I was much younger, a drunken ******* came after one of the girls in our group. He wouldn't stop, until one of our friends pulled a revolver out of his glove box and fired a shot in the air. Everyone froze, including Mr. Trouble maker, who calmly said his goodbyes, and left.
At that point, I realized how just having, and presenting a gun, changes ALL the dynamics.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## zeke4351 (Jan 29, 2013)

faststang90 said:


> the other day i had a guy run a stop sign and about hit me. i honked my horn at him and he gave me the bird and hit his brakes trying to make me hit him. he was throwing stuff out of his truck at my truck. i got into the other lane and was able to go pass him. as i was passing him i thru a 20 oz coke at his truck. not sure if i hit his truck. i was just trying to get away from him. he got into the lane next to me that he did not have to stop. he hit my truck with a 1 liter coke. i went after him to get his plate and he had pulled to the side of the road. i pulled over to get his plate number. i was about 50 feet from him. i had him coming at me saying he was going to f me up. i told him i had my chl and had my gun on me. he said you better use it. he got about 25 feet from me. i was telling him to stop and he keep walking at me saying he was going to f me up. he got about 15 feet from me and i pulled my gun and he stopped. he was saying i was lucky because he was going to f me up. i did not want to shot him and i did not know if he was going to stay back so i drove off and called 911. the 911 person told me i needed to go to the police station. i had to turn around to go there. on my way to the cops he pulled into my lane and stopped in the road. he jumped out of his truck and i drove around him. i got away from him and called 911 back and told them he was after me. i could see him coming so i drove faster to get away. the 911 person told me to get some where out of the way of him. i pulled in and waited on the cops. i was arrested for pulling my gun. im i screwed. the cops took there story on it all. saying i was after them from the start.


I haven't read what everyone else has said here so this might be a repeat. With the attitude you have you will wind up in jail or dead. Two guys just killed each other a few days ago over a similar situation. You should change your whole attitude when carrying a gun. I put up with and ignore a lot more crap from people than I ever did before to avoid a situation like yours. You need to go get some training on how to act. That gun is to protect your life not scare someone because you dont have enough sense to avoid a situation. You keep flashing your gun for stupid reasons you will likely get killed. I would bet money you will never be able to legally carry a gun again no matter how many lawyers you hire. Sad but at least you are still alive and not crippled.


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

I disagree. If I draw my handgun its because he has met the criteria for me to do so. In my head I am going to fire immediately. Yes, if he surrenders I'll forego the shot, but thats about it. That is the prudent outlook. Have your mental checklist, stick to it, and draw only when you must. Whne I must draw, you bet your bippy that I will be firing in short order.

I will have created witnesses. I will have warned him to stop. I may or may not say that I am armed (prolly not). I would lie if I had to and say the police are on the way. If I could safely leave, I would.

Before I draw I am going to ask myself the questions (my own devising) "Can I get away, do I have to fight this guy? Can my loved ones get away if I can? Do I have AOJ on my side? Can I prove IDOL?" Then baby, it's on.

As I tell my students--Remember if you draw your gun it's 10 grand. If you fire it its 100 grand. Make damned sure you have to do these things because they can be expensive."

Dan


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## faststang90 (Apr 8, 2013)

i am disabled and i have a shunt in my head. some one hits me in my head could kill me. im not going to let someone get where they could hit me. when someone is coming at me saying he going to f ck me up. i tell them im disabled to stay back and he is telling me he is going to f ck me up. i told him i had my chl and i had my hand gun on me to stay back. he told me if i had it i better use it because he was going to f ck me up. so that is when i showed my gun. when he stopped and i was thinking he was not going to come at me i left. he is the one that blocked the road after i had pulled my gun on him. if some one had pulled a gun on you went after them and u blocked the road. i fell i gave him every chance to stop. when i told him i was just after his plate number and he changed things when he told me he was going to f ck me up. when i went behind him all i wanted was his plate number


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## Ricco60 (Sep 27, 2013)

That sidearm you carry is your last, not first resort. Words are just air with sounds; certainly no reason to shoot. When you carry a gun and know how to use it, your radar should be on and your tolerance high, until the safety of your loved ones and/or yourself are at stake.


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## topgun47 (Sep 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> During my LE career, I responded to many road rage incidents that went very bad. One can talk all day long about what to do or how to handle just such a situation.
> 
> But, at the end of the day, it was the person that drove away from it that turned out best. If you can get a license plate number, great! If you can't, drive away and be safe.
> 
> In this day and age, not too many disputes are settled anymore by simply putting up your fists and punching it out. Kind of tough to take stock in your pride when you're dead.


This is great advise, I hope others take heed.


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## jumperj (Sep 22, 2013)

faststang90 said:


> the other day i had a guy run a stop sign and about hit me. i honked my horn at him and he gave me the bird and hit his brakes trying to make me hit him. he was throwing stuff out of his truck at my truck. i got into the other lane and was able to go pass him. as i was passing him i thru a 20 oz coke at his truck.


The mistake originally made, IMO was to escalate his aggressive behavior with your own. I know what it's like to have someone do this, but you could have defused this by just falling back or turning off onto another road. If he'd pursued you, then you could have called 911 and driven to the cop shop. The only reason this got out of hand in the first place was because of your own anger. Sure, it's much easier to get mad or get even, but look at the mess you're in now because of this.


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## Donn (Jul 26, 2013)

Ksgunner said:


> Wearing a gun means added responsibilities. Anger management is one thing I really need to work on when I have my gun with me. My instructors said to remember that every thing you do, there is a gun involved. That being said I have not yet needed to draw my weapon on anyone or anything. I hope it remains that way.


+1^^^ You have to leave your temper and pride at home when you carry. So what if the other guy thinks "I showed him!" Like Wyatt Earp told Johnny Ringo, "I'm not gonna fight you, Ringo. There's no money in it." We just had an incident here in Michigan. Road rage, both guys had CPL's, not youngsters, no alcohol involved. Pulled their pieces and killed each other. From the way you described it, your concealed carry or any other carry for that matter, might be over. Best of luck, I'm afraid you'll need it.


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## topgun47 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sorry to be the one to tell you faststang, but what you did shows that you are not responsible enough to carry a weapon. Didn't you learn anything in your CHL class?


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> ^ Your perspective should change when carrying... you should avoid confrontation more than ever and take the high road, swallow your pride at times... that's what your instructors meant, and it's the same advice I give my students... it's good advice... just like being more aware of your body position & surroundings.
> 
> "Kill with your heart"?... not sure I agree with any part of that saying. It's a mindset of preparedness... not personal or emotional thing for me. I just want to always come home to my family after my shift.
> 
> ...


I concur with your assessment I have had to pull my gun but the situation changed so I didn't have to shoot afterwards. Many LEO pull their guns and that causes the situation of De-esculate


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