# Suggestions needed (from Galco people?)



## submoa

I never realized it until my wife remarked on the weekend, "You sure carry a lot of crap with you." Before I could fire back, "look who's talking," I realized she was right.

Aside from my CCW, I usually carry a spare mag, a leatherman multitool, Surefire 6P, cellphone, keys with a huge remote for my car. And because I'm getting old(er?), meds and a wallet that's grown to about an inch thick. Not to mention an accumulation of change by the end of the day.

I usually wear cargo pants and carry most of this junk in my cargo pockets because I hate the Bat Belt look. My wife made me realize I've traded the duty belt for a lot of wear on my pants and look like I wear riding breeches all the time.

Can somebody suggest a rig where I can carry all my stuff neatly but not look like I'm wearing a duty belt?

Thanks.


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## bruce333

That's about what I carry, (minus the meds) and in cargo pants also.

Clean out your wallet. I do mine about every 6 months or so. Lots of stuff I really don't need seems to accumulate.


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## Todd

I've ran into the same problem, but it's usually when I'm out alone with one or both of my kids. On my own, I can travel pretty light, but with them, I need to carry a lot of stuff, so I have resorted to carrying a Maxpedition Jumbo Versa Pack when I'm out and about with my boys because I hate walking around with fully loaded cargo pockets. Holds plenty of gear in the side pockets (including a 32 oz water bottle) has a CCW compartment if you want to off-body carry, and the main compartment is large enough where I can either stuff it with food or diaper stuff, or even use it as a small range bag, as you can see in the picture. If I can figure out a way to the AR in there, it would be prefect. :mrgreen:


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## Mike Barham

I carry a lot of stuff, too. I hate cargo pants, so I have to carry everything in regular pockets of jeans or casual slacks, or on my belt. As I see it, you have three options:

The first and most radical suggestion is to switch to a shoulder system for your pistol and spare ammo. This will get the bulkiest items off your belt, and free up a considerable amount of "real estate" for other things. I am giving this some serious thought for when I return to the States.

The second is to downsize your carry items. I did this fairly recently. For example, I went from a Commander to a Glock 26. I went from a 6P to an E2e "Executive," with no loss in lumens. I got a smaller cell phone. I got a flatter pocket knife. I got a tiny billfold that only carries my DL, CCW, one each debit and credit cards, and a small amount of paper money. I throw coins in my car and clean it out once a week or so.

I also attached an ASP Palm Defender to my keys. In addition to giving me a pepper spray option, it allows me to slide the slim Defender into my pocket or waistband, so the keys hang comfortably on the outside, rather than being crammed into a pocket with other stuff. Guys love to accumulate keys. Downsize your keys by only carrying those for your car and house (and work, if applicable). Other keys that are infrequently used can be stored on a second keyring in your car or home.

The third option is the "manbag" approach, which has some adherents here on HGF. *Todd*, for example, carries enough supplies in his Maxpedition bag to survive an apocalypse. So your meds and other items would be very easy to carry, and extra space could be filled with spare ammo, a second gun, or whatever floats your boat. Depending on where you live, though, a manbag might draw a lot of unwanted attention.


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## Mike Barham

And speaking of *Todd* and his _Mad Max Manbag_, there he is! We must have been writing at the same time.


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## Todd

Mike Barham said:


> *Todd*, for example, carries enough supplies in his Maxpedition bag to survive an apocalypse.


 :anim_lol::anim_lol::anim_lol:

If my oldest wants a snack and I don't have it, I'll take the apocalypse any day over the melt down that would happen. :mrgreen:


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## niadhf

Winter time. 
My Deluth Force Nine coat is great. It has something like 23 pockets. Course then i can't find anything, but i blame that on years.

Can't answer for all those thin blooded types.:smt033

Todd, you could have the barrel for the ar threaded. :anim_lol: But i like the look of that bag.


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## Old Padawan

Mike Barham said:


> IThe first and most radical suggestion is to switch to a shoulder system for your pistol and spare ammo. This will get the bulkiest items off your belt, and free up a considerable amount of "real estate" for other things. I am giving this some serious thought for when I return to the States.


DID YOU JUST RECCOMEND A SHOULDER HOLSTER???:smt107


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## Old Padawan

As per usual mike has a good idea. Galco makes a shoulder holster that holds a gun, 2 mags, and a surefire type flashlight. You can even clip your knife to the harness.


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## BeefyBeefo

I too carry quite a bit of stuff in my pockets (jeans) and the biggest is my keys. Similar to Mike's situation, I have a mini-maglite on my keys so I always have a flashlight with me and I can put the flashlight in my pocket and let the keys dangle comfortably. I also downsized my wallet to a smaller folder that holds cards and has a money clip on the outside (which I wear in my front pocket instead of the normal back-pocket, as I'm paranoid in public when people bump into me and my wallet used to be in the back). Also, this way I can't put receipts or anything else in this wallet like I used to, making it huge in about a week.



Mike Barham said:


> The first and most radical suggestion is to switch to a shoulder system for your pistol and spare ammo. This will get the bulkiest items off your belt, and free up a considerable amount of "real estate" for other things. I am giving this some serious thought for when I return to the States.


I always liked the idea of a shoulder holster, because I feel it would be the most comfortable for me (although I don't know from experience, that's just what I think). I'm going to apply for jobs in Arizona to get away from these ridiculous gun laws and go for a warm climate (mmmm year round motorcycle riding), but my question to you Mike is, how would you conceal this in the hot Arizona weather? I'm guessing you MUST wear a light vest of some sort? Maybe a short sleeve button-down would work? (just thought of that, never thought of that one before, that would actually be quite easy and would fit somewhat "normal" attire for me). I'm guessing the button-down is the most practical and "normal" in Arizona? Thanks for the input.

-Jeff-


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## Old Padawan

I live in Phoenix. I wear a shoulder holster on occasion in the summer. I generally wear a Hawaiian shirt completely open with a colored T-shirt underneath. On occasion I will button the bottom few buttons. It works well in a casual environment.


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## BeefyBeefo

Old Padawan said:


> I live in Phoenix. I wear a shoulder holster on occasion in the summer. I generally wear a Hawaiian shirt completely open with a colored T-shirt underneath. On occasion I will button the bottom few buttons. It works well in a casual environment.


Doesn't the shirt blow open, showing the gun and/or harness? I know you can open carry, but without the shirt closed, how does it even stay concealed while walking? Thanks Old Padawan!

-Jeff-


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## submoa

Todd said:


>


Todd,

Can't say I like the idea of packing all my stuff in a bag. I see too many "tourists" with fanny packs. Although, if you want to pack your AR, you might be interested in the bag this guy is using:










PS.


Todd said:


> the main compartment is large enough where I can either stuff it with food or diaper stuff


ewww....


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## Mike Barham

I am giving some serious thought to going to shoulder carry when I get home. It is ridiculously comfortable, though I know it isn't "gun skool approved." My plan is to carry a mid-sized gun (Glock 23) under a buttoned guyabera-type shirt - *not* a Hawaiian shirt unbuttoned - one size larger than normal. Shirts of this type blend well in AZ, and my goal is to always be the "gray man" that no one notices and everyone instant forgets.

If I use a diagonal rig like the Galco Jackass, and leave the botton shirt button undone, it should be no great trick to snake my hand onto the gun butt and draw with some rapidity. Since the shirt is mainly buttoned, discretion should be excellent.

Obviously, I would wear a breathable t-shirt under the concealing shirt, but I do that anyway. I managed to acquire five or six white UnderArmor t-shirts while over here, and those should do the trick.


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## submoa

Mike Barham said:


> shoulder carry


Mike, you've made me seriously reconsider shoulder carry. I just can't get around the idea of shadowing any part of my body with the muzzle during a draw if I can avoid it. Number one nosepicker doesn't enter triggerguard until after the muzzle covers my target, so maybe this is a psychological thing I can't get beyond.



Mike Barham said:


> ridiculously comfortable


The times I've tried a shoulder rig, the pistol gets sways against my ribs even with the belt loops engaged. Pistol whipping my ribs during my heart surgery recovery won't be comfortable.



Mike Barham said:


> always be the "gray man" that no one notices


+1



Mike Barham said:


> Galco Jackass


Do you still have to wear cotton jackets with rolled up sleeves and avoid socks when using this holster?



Mike Barham said:


> The second is to downsize your carry items.


Probably the best solution... Where do you carry your E2e, cell and knife?

I already ankle carry (Colt DS, now PPK) when I wear suits, but in hot weather I wear shorts and carry a fullsize P99 in a Fobus paddle. Transferring all my crap from my pockets to my belt would increase the risk of printing and/or not look good in the suit environment.



Mike Barham said:


> tiny billfold that only carries my DL, CCW, one each debit and credit cards, and a small amount of paper money.


Just add health insurance cards, emergency medical info, and list of docs and you are at an inch. This was after downsizing from a fullsize wallet.



Mike Barham said:


> attached an ASP Palm Defender to my keys.


I had a kuboton on my keyring when I used to live in a country that forbade CC. Wouldn't having keys loose make jangly ringing noises



Mike Barham said:


> UnderArmor t-shirts


Why is it when we wear these shirts, we look nothing like the advertising?


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## BeefyBeefo

submoa said:


> Why is it when we wear these shirts, we look nothing like the advertising?


:anim_lol::anim_lol:

Now, RE: Should Carry. I don't have any personal experience with carry at all (not yet atleast....someone please hire me out of college in Arizona :watching. I can picture the banging of the ribs, but I imagine if it was somehow a nice snug fit, it would be by far the most comfortable way to carry. Also, now that I have read Mike's response, I can also picture short-sleeve button down shirts being pretty common in the hot Arizona weather as well, and that would make it quite easy to conceal. If it came down to it and it was buttoned all the way up, just rip it open. Sounds interesting, and I still feel as though shoulder carry would be the most comfortable way to carry for myself without a doubt. We'll find out if I can get a job :smt023

-Jeff-


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## submoa

BeefyBeefo said:


> I can picture the banging of the ribs, but I imagine if it was somehow a nice snug fit, it would be by far the most comfortable way to carry.


Mesomorphic Somatotype. Gun hangs on an angle from shoulder to waist rather than up and down.


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## Mike Barham

submoa said:


> Mike, you've made me seriously reconsider shoulder carry. I just can't get around the idea of shadowing any part of my body with the muzzle during a draw if I can avoid it. Number one nosepicker doesn't enter triggerguard until after the muzzle covers my target, so maybe this is a psychological thing I can't get beyond.


The technique I use has the left arm coming up in front of the neck, arm bent about 90*, with the elbow pointed at the target. This does two good things. One, it gets the left arm (and the brachial artery!) clear of the muzzle. Two, if positions the pistol better for the draw by pulling it toward the center of the body.



> The times I've tried a shoulder rig, the pistol gets sways against my ribs even with the belt loops engaged. Pistol whipping my ribs during my heart surgery recovery won't be comfortable.


I strongly suspect the straps were adjusted improperly. They must be fairly snug to minimize gun movement. The pistol should be up high, much closer to the armpit than the belt. Vertical shoulder holsters are _much_ more prone to movement than horizontals, by the way.



> Do you still have to wear cotton jackets with rolled up sleeves and avoid socks when using this holster?


Haaaaaaaaaa! You can tell who has been around guns (and bad TV!) for a while. :mrgreen:

Anyway, THAT holster is now called the Miami Classic.



> Probably the best solution... Where do you carry your E2e, cell and knife?


E2e is clipped to my left front pocket, pushed all the way to the rear. Folding knife is similarly positioned on the right side. Depending on mode of dress, my cell may be in my front pocket or in a belt pouch just forward of my (presently belt-carried) spare mag.



> I already ankle carry (Colt DS, now PPK) when I wear suits, but in hot weather I wear shorts and carry a fullsize P99 in a Fobus paddle.


I went to a P3AT for pocket carry in business suits or other formal clothing (like military Class A). It is flat and light, and allows me to maintain the lines of a suit. Most of the time I carry a Glock in an IWB holster. But I always have my E2e and my knife, except in pocketless Mess Dress, which is basically a military tuxedo. Even then I can have the knife and the P3AT hidden behind the cummerbund.



> Just add health insurance cards, emergency medical info, and list of docs and you are at an inch. This was after downsizing from a fullsize wallet.


Can you get creative with the list of docs? Maybe on a thumb drive attached to your keys or something? Store the info in your cell phone?



> I had a kuboton on my keyring when I used to live in a country that forbade CC. Wouldn't having keys loose make jangly ringing noises?


I pared my keys down to one car key, one house key, and one Galco key. Everything else is on a keyring I don't carry. Not much to jangle, eh? You can also get those rubber gaskets that quiet keys, if you need maximum ninja stealth. :mrgreen:



> Why is it when we wear these shirts, we look nothing like the advertising?


Speak for yourself.

;-)


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## Old Padawan

You would think it is cool to work for a holster make since you get cool EMPLOYEE DISCOUNTS. You would be wrong. Marketing has long ago realized that if something is cheaper, people are more likely to buy more. I am that target audience
.
I own three shoulder holsters for the 1911. One in black for dark clothing(I wear this when wearing a black tshirt), one in tan with wide shoulder harness for comfort and light colored clothing (this is also my camping rig). And one Jackass style rig, the Jackass is for the draw that mike is talking about. I wear it when I am wearing a sweatshirt or a large button down shirt.

One of the advantages of the horizontal carry is that when your shirt falls open its not as obvious that you are wearing a gun. If the wind starts blowing, you clamp down on the shirt with your biceps; this prevents the peek of gun/ammo carrier.

I might add that the more subdued aloha or gray Dickies shirts are better for blending into the crowd. I have given up on this as I am so D**N pretty that everyone notices me anyway.


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## BeefyBeefo

I never thought of the color of the holster/harness making a difference as to what clothing you were wearing. It makes sense now that you mentioned it, but I didn't even think of that before. Being as though I am also a motorcycle guy, I was also thinking that shoulder carry would by far be the most comfortable and easily accessible for that as well. I'll figure it out....gotta get to Arizona first 

-Jeff-


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## submoa

Old Padawan said:


> As per usual mike has a good idea. Galco makes a shoulder holster that holds a gun, 2 mags, and a surefire type flashlight. You can even clip your knife to the harness.


Getting into tactical vest territory....

Does Galco make a pocket carrier that will hold a double stack mag and a 6P?


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## Old Padawan

submoa said:


> Getting into tactical vest territory....
> 
> Does Galco make a pocket carrier that will hold a double stack mag and a 6P?


WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT A TACTICAL VEST IS VISABLE TO THOSE AROUND YOU AND THE SHOULDER HOLSTER IS NOT...:mrgreen:

NO TO THE MAG AND LIGHT, IT IS EITHER OR. I WILL TEST THE FIT FOR THE DOUBLE STACK AND SEE IF IT WILL ACCOMIDATE MY 6P (I AM THINKING YES). I WILL LET YOU KNOW TOMORROW.


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## niadhf

Mike Barham said:


> If I use a diagonal rig like the Galco Jackass, and leave the botton shirt button undone, it should be no great trick to snake my hand onto the gun butt and draw with some rapidity. Since the shirt is mainly buttoned, discretion should be excellent.


Mike, Hear is an idea I just read that you might like.
Try removing the bottom (few?) buttons from the right tail of the shirt. sew velcor on shirt to hold it close at the button holes, then sew buttons on the left tail. The shirt should look buttoned, be secured, and easy to open without ruingin a good shirt. (not that ruining a good shirt should truly be a concern in a stress sit, but hey, you get to look good after.)


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## Mike Barham

submoa said:


> Getting into tactical vest territory....


If you can stand the look of the _Shoot Me First_ vests. I personally can't stand the 5.11 Modern Ninja look, but lots of guys do like to walk around looking like junior-grade DEA agents.



> Does Galco make a pocket carrier that will hold a double stack mag and a 6P?


Funny you should ask! I actually designed such an item a couple of years ago, but thus far Galco has elected not to produce it. Mine was for the smaller-bodied lights like the Executive series, though, since a 6P takes up an awful lot of room in the pocket.

Perhaps if the PMC takes off, I can convince Galco to make one that accommodates flashlights, too. The problem in producing such an item is the possible combinations:

One guy carries a single stack mag and a 6P.
Next guy carries a double stack and a 6P.
Third guy carries a single stack and an E2e.
Fourth guy carries a double stack and an E2e.
Etc.

You get the idea.


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## submoa

Mike Barham said:


> Funny you should ask! I actually designed such an item a couple of years ago, but thus far Galco has elected not to produce it. Mine was for the smaller-bodied lights like the Executive series, though, since a 6P takes up an awful lot of room in the pocket.


Found this Fobus 9mm double stack mag/6p combo paddle. https://secure.fobusholster.com/cat...d=203&osCsid=2a26170a1d47ea56982bf3e2f6172725










What I'd like would be a leather pocket carrier for ready, yet stealth carry.

Maybe this would help convince your bosses


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## niadhf

submoa said:


> Found this Fobus 9mm double stack mag/6p combo paddle. https://secure.fobusholster.com/cat...d=203&osCsid=2a26170a1d47ea56982bf3e2f6172725
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I'd like would be a leather pocket carrier for ready, yet stealth carry.
> 
> Maybe this would help convince your bosses


Hey how about this in horizontal belt carry?


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## Old Padawan

Galco makes one of those for belt carry in leather. Still nothing in the pocket. I think the pocket mag case is something the shooting public is just now embracing.(of cours Mike and I have carried them for years :mrgreen. Who knows what time will tell.

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterA3.asp?ProductID=2009&CaliberID=216


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## Mike Barham

Dredging up this older thread because I just got a new "downsized" cell phone. It's called the Juke, made by Samsung. The thing just disappears in a pocket. Pics attached.


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## Old Padawan

so when did you get all hip. When I first met you werent you carryng a 3 pound cell with a 2 foot antenna?


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## Todd

Old Padawan said:


> so when did you get all hip. When I first met you werent you carrieng a 3 pound cell with a 2 foot antenna?


As Mike likes to say, "It's the Indian, not the arrow". A hip cell phone does not make one automatically hip. :anim_lol::anim_lol:


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## BeefyBeefo

:anim_lol::anim_lol::anim_lol:


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## Mike Barham

I am the least hip person I know. Just ask my daughter. :mrgreen:

Anyway, I just asked for the smallest phone they had, and that's what the guy handed me. SWMBO said I should get one that allows easier text messaging, so I had to remind her that I am not hip enough to text much.


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## Old Padawan

iT WASNT SO MUCH THE ANTENNA THAT BOTHERED MIKE, IT WAS THE LONG CORD HE HAD TO DRAG AROUND...

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

WELCOME HOME.


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## badger54

Mike Barham said:


> Dredging up this older thread because I just got a new "downsized" cell phone. It's called the Juke, made by Samsung. The thing just disappears in a pocket. Pics attached.


I carry a Samsung X830:








in a Desantis ankle cellphone holster:








It has freed up space on my belt as well as prevented the phone getting damaged at work. When I move next week I am either going to get another one of these if I can find one or a Motorola RAZR.

also I have no problem sending texts quickly with the X830


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## Mike Barham

Wow, and I thought ankle holsters for guns were mall ninja!

_Ninja...vanish._

:mrgreen:


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## badger54

I suppose it is a bit mall ninjaish but it keeps it out of my pockets and more importantly out of sight when I'm in London as cell phone thefts are a huge problem. When I get state side I'll probably go back to a case on my belt but it is still use full for when I have to were a suit as it doesn't ruin the lines.
Also about 5 years back when phones were a bit bigger carrying one in a phone shoulder holster was popular, being the UK the whole "mall Ninja" never really enters peoples heads.







I


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## Mike Barham

I recently learned that the Juke fits nicely in magazine carriers for Glock 9mm/.40s. Here's Bill King modeling one.

_Ninja...vanish._


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## submoa

Any progress on the doublestack mag / surefire 6P combo pocket holder?

Was able to update my med info, etc to a 4GB stainless flash drive / dog tag


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## Mike Barham

submoa said:


> Any progress on the doublestack mag / surefire 6P combo pocket holder?
> 
> Was able to update my med info, etc to a 4GB stainless flash drive / dog tag


Smart way to do things!

No progress on the pocket mag/6P carrier. That's a real niche item. On the other hand, Galco is a niche manufacturer, so you never know.


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## JeffWard

Forget the niche items... How about just a mag carrier for the "niche" XD45???

Just griping... sorry.

JW


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## JeffWard

... never mind... should have looked first...

Matrix Mag holder for XD45?

:mrgreen:


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## Mike Barham

JeffWard said:


> Matrix Mag holder for XD45? :mrgreen:


In the works, actually. :mrgreen:


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