# Good options for full-size CCW?



## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

Hey all...

Assuming I will be living in a state that will allow me the option of choosing what I want to carry, where should I begin my search based on the following info?

5'10" with large frame
IWB/OWB not an option (have a hard enough time finding pants considering I need a lot more room in the legs than my waist size allows)
.40S&W or .45ACP or .45GAP only
Prefer double-stacked mags for capacity
Average-sized hands, but large palm area with shorter fingers
Weight not an issue for me; I'm a rarity, as I want to know it's there (you should feel how heavy my watch, pen, etc are.)
Not opposed to polymer (Glock, XD/XD(M), etc)
I shoot lefty (left-eye dominant) but prefer shooting with right-handed guns/rifles (just habit from having no choice in the Corps)
Willing to pay up to $1,500 for the gun alone
I know this is a lot of info, but hopefully it will make it easier to answer than the generic "What gun is the best CCW?" type questions.

Thank you all for your time!

Josh


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

taurus pt100 is .40cal, adjustable sights, double stacked


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## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> taurus pt100 is .40cal, adjustable sights, double stacked


Thanks! I'd certainly feel at home on that and I would know it is there at 34oz. empty. Great price, too.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

MuckFassachusetts said:


> Thanks! I'd certainly feel at home on that and I would know it is there at 34oz. empty. Great price, too.


yep, looks and feels the same as your familiar m9..... whats not to love?


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Bought a HK USP COMPACT 9mm for ccw yesterday but you say you want a full size handgun which is funny because I noticed something. My Glock 17 was much lighter then the USP-C. I suggest Glock 22 or 21 (since you want only .40 or .45) if you have or get a good holster. Have fun lugging around a full sized handgun tho, your either a badass or going to be tired as hell


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

With your budget there are far more reliable guns than a Taurus.


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## rgrundy (Jul 16, 2011)

The Taurus PT 100 or Beretta 92 have a decocker that is also a safety and is easily slipped to the safe position while fighting or clearing or charging the pistol and then when you pull the trigger it won't go bang. Surprise! I'm fond of the SIG P series of pistols. The P226 is available in 40 S&W. You can get it with night sights and be under $1000.00. Have the custom shop slick up the trigger for another few dollars or just go for the Enhanced Elite model. Check it out.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

SMann said:


> With your budget there are far more reliable guns than a Taurus.


define reliable?

i have a pt 92 af with well over 20k rounds, have had never had a failure of ANY kind, ever.... 
i have a pt 100 with over 15k rounds thru, 4 stovepipes, all in the first week, all because i limp wristed it.... 
i have a pt 22 with a little under 3k rounds thru it and have had about 6-8 failure to feeds all with soft nose ammo....

is this the definition of unreliable?


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## rgrundy (Jul 16, 2011)

I have carried all sizes of pistols for years and have found it fairly easy to conceal a full size pistol and I'm 5' 10" and 205 pounds and am not a bad ass anymore because I am trapped in this wrinkly old body. I carry a Glock 35 in 357 SIG or a SIG P220 or a SIG P226 because they are fighting pistols and you can aquire targets at some very respectable distances with them. I shoot out to 300 yards regularly just for entertainment ( I was a long range handgun silhouette shooter so I still play). Learn how to dress and how not to twist or bend so you "print" the weapon. It's all a learning process.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

i thought posts about bb guns and air soft were supposed to be posted in the spring/air/co2 section of our forum?


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

I am a 9mm and .380 guy, but here is my list of .40's I would consider. I don't care for the striker-fired, and don't like Glock's, so I put Walther in for strikers:

Cz P-06: Alloy Frame, 10 Rounds, Great Trigger, Fits like a glove, DA/SA, Light Rail, Safety
Cz P-07 Duty: Polymer, 14 Rounds, Accurate, Great Trigger, DA/SA, Light Rail, Safety
P229 Platinum Elite, 12 Rounds, E29R-40-PSE, Short Reset Trigger, DA/SA, Decocker
FNX-40 Stainless, 14 Rounds, DA/SA, Polymer Frame, Great Trigger, 24 Oz lightweight fullsize gun.
Beretta PX4 Storm Full Size, 14 Rounds, DA/SA, Low Recoil, Accurate, Decocker/Safety
Cz SP-01 Tactical, 12 Rounds, Competition accuracy, Long Barrel, DA/Sa, Rail, 8 Inch Length.
Sig P226 Elite Stainless, 12 Rounds, E26R-40-SSE, Wood Grips, Short Reset Trigger, DA/SA, Heavier than average.
Walther PPQ, 12/14 Rounds, Striker-Half Cock, Fast trigger short reset, Accurate. 
Walther P99QA, 12 Rounds, Striker-HalfCock, Fast Trigger, Accurate.


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> is this the definition of unreliable?


Please use the search function and read all the stories just on this forum alone concerning Taurus' reputation of inconsistent quality and reliability. You apparently have three of the good ones. Far too many of their guns do not perform like yours.


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## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

jakeleinen1 said:


> Bought a HK USP COMPACT 9mm for ccw yesterday but you say you want a full size handgun which is funny because I noticed something. My Glock 17 was much lighter then the USP-C. I suggest Glock 22 or 21 (since you want only .40 or .45) if you have or get a good holster. Have fun lugging around a full sized handgun tho, your either a badass or going to be tired as hell


I've had my eye on the Glocks, but not for the light weight. I've heard some great things about reliability with them, and most complaints about FTF/FTE seem to be countered with people saying most issues are due to either people limp-wristing, or the type of ammo (on the older ones).

As to carrying a full-size and getting tired, that won't be an issue. I'm used to carrying 100 oz of water on my back all day, so having a handgun and some mags won't hurt me.


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## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

rgrundy said:


> I have carried all sizes of pistols for years and have found it fairly easy to conceal a full size pistol and I'm 5' 10" and 205 pounds and am not a bad ass anymore because I am trapped in this wrinkly old body. I carry a Glock 35 in 357 SIG or a SIG P220 or a SIG P226 because they are fighting pistols and you can aquire targets at some very respectable distances with them. I shoot out to 300 yards regularly just for entertainment ( I was a long range handgun silhouette shooter so I still play). Learn how to dress and how not to twist or bend so you "print" the weapon. It's all a learning process.


What do you like about the .357 SIG round? Do you find over penetration to be an issue in an urban environment?


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## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

cclaxton said:


> I am a 9mm and .380 guy, but here is my list of .40's I would consider. I don't care for the striker-fired, and don't like Glock's, so I put Walther in for strikers:
> 
> Cz P-06: Alloy Frame, 10 Rounds, Great Trigger, Fits like a glove, DA/SA, Light Rail, Safety
> Cz P-07 Duty: Polymer, 14 Rounds, Accurate, Great Trigger, DA/SA, Light Rail, Safety
> ...


Thanks for the list; I've got some more homework to do!

Would you mind sharing why you don't like Glocks? Also, why do stay away from striker-fired weapons?


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

*Why not Glocks or striker-fired?*



MuckFassachusetts said:


> Thanks for the list; I've got some more homework to do!
> 
> Would you mind sharing why you don't like Glocks? Also, why do stay away from striker-fired weapons?


Glocks are an ugly looking gun, IMHO. They have few color choices, and the slide is very square at the top. They are just OK at accuracy. And, have no models for pocket carry. They are rather thick for CC. And, they are all striker fired...my least favorite action.

Striker-fired guns don't allow you to dry-fire the gun in order to build up good muscle memory and practice without racking the slide. With DA/SA and most DAO guns, every time I pull the trigger, the hammer falls.

In fact, I think the first criteria for choosing a gun is the type of action you want. It makes a big difference in how you operate the firearm and how you practice and how your finger learns to pull the trigger. Also, be careful, even firearms labelled DAO don't have "double strike" capability. Double strike means that after you pull the trigger once, you can pull the trigger again and the hammer will fall. This is also important when a round fails to fire, otherwise you have to eject the round.

I prefer DA/Sa guns for this reason...but I do own one striker fired gun, the Kahr PM9 and I tolerate the striker because I like everything else about the gun: size, accuracy, trigger pull, looks, etc.

The best thing to do is to go to a few ranges and shoot different types of guns and go to gun shows and hold and dry fire as many as you can. You may look for guns that have changeable backstraps for sizing, etc.

Also, the guns I listed for you are very reliable. Reliability is a critical feature. I didnt list Taurus for that reason. I left Ruger off the list, but Ruger is very reliable as well. Your price range was on the higher end and Ruger is more affordable, but you may want to start with a cheaper gun to see what you do and don't llike about it.

And, I know you said weight is not that important, but I find that it is important when you carry. You have to get a really great holster to match your gun, and it is going to hang on something...your belt, your pocket, your pants, etc. Gravity will be a factor...You may have to tighten your pants more for a heavier gun to keep it from pull your pants down...just sayin.

Good lock.


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## rgrundy (Jul 16, 2011)

MuckFassachusetts said:


> What do you like about the .357 SIG round? Do you find over penetration to be an issue in an urban environment?


If you are going to gunfight you need to learn when to shoot and if to shoot at all. Any of the larger pistol rounds will penetrate a human or walls. The 9x19 that everyone carries is bad also in that respect. Don't be fooled into thinking that some pistol rounds won't penetrate walls, the lowly 22 LR will. Having a pistol round that will penetrate a vest or shoot through soft cover is not a bad thing if you need it. Training is the key to having enough awareness not to hit something you do not wish to hit. Using ammo that is frangible like Mag Safe will help if you wish to go that route. Gunfighting is a dangerous business period.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

SMann said:


> Please use the search function and read all the stories just on this forum alone concerning Taurus' reputation of inconsistent quality and reliability. You apparently have three of the good ones. Far too many of their guns do not perform like yours.


so no personal experience, just anecdotal "evidence" ?


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

MuckFassachusetts said:


> I've had my eye on the Glocks, but not for the light weight. I've heard some great things about reliability with them, and most complaints about FTF/FTE seem to be countered with people saying most issues are due to either people limp-wristing, or the type of ammo (on the older ones).
> 
> As to carrying a full-size and getting tired, that won't be an issue. I'm used to carrying 100 oz of water on my back all day, so having a handgun and some mags won't hurt me.


I've had ONE FTE when I first got my Glock 17, and lets just say I was being abit immature with the style in which I was holding the gun (gangster style which lead to limp wristing), never again will I do that... and never again has my Glock EVER jammed (1,000 + rounds)

The reliability of glocks are outstanding... Why anyone would dislike a glock is beyond me...


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Yes, just anecdotal evidence. I didn't come to this forum thinking I knew everything or that my experiences could be used as the bench mark for everything. I spend much more time reading than I do typing. During my time reading I noticed an extraordinary number of people, who have personal experience, complaining about their Taurus brand firearm. More than any other regularly mentioned brand. The number of quality and reliability complaints about Taurus are only matched by the number of complaints about their customer care which compounds the low quality problem. These observations have caused me to choose not to have any personal experience with a brand with such a poor reputation. When a new member suggests to another new member to buy a Taurus when there is a $1500 budget available, I will post something in an attempt to encourage the future buyer to do some research before making a decision as this subject has been discussed numerous times. If that is not acceptable to you Mr. Ted, well, I really don't care.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

SMann said:


> During my time reading I noticed an extraordinary number of people, who have personal experience, complaining about their Taurus brand firearm. More than any other regularly mentioned brand. The number of quality and reliability complaints about Taurus are only matched by the number of complaints about their customer care which compounds the low quality problem. These observations have caused me to choose not to have any personal experience with a brand with such a poor reputation.


CO SIGN ^

A few friends of mine were all getting Taurus Pistols (due to the M9 beretta copy design they love and the price) I TOLD THEM NOT TO!!!! When we went to the range together I laugh at the number of their malfunctions while my guns fire every time... Since then one of the three has traded for a Springfield XD while the other two have kept their "sissy nickle plated pistols" hahaha


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

SMann said:


> When a new member suggests to another new member to buy a Taurus when there is a $1500 budget available, I will post something in an attempt to encourage the future buyer to do some research before making a decision as this subject has been discussed numerous times. If that is not acceptable to you Mr. Ted, well, I really don't care.


first, i didnt suggest he buy a taurus, i did suggest that the pt 100 fit his criteria and coupled with his familiarity with the m9 that it might be a good choice..... (owning one , i would recommend it if asked) i was just trying to find out if your feelings about taurus were a result of personal experience or from the stories of others..... nothing was implied, and it doesnt have to be acceptable to me....

while i may be new here, i am not new to guns, having owned a small gun shop in central california in the late 80s i got to play with more than a few of the guns in that era.... not that it translates to many of todays modern polyguns , so i do look for personal knowledge of reliability ..... with what i have read it seems that the taurus reputation has dropped and yet the reputation of george kelgren has improved, his grendels were a gun i regretted selling and yet his keltechs have a growing fan base.....

i wasnt trying to insult you, just trying to see where the info and opinion were coming from


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Internet communication can sometimes require more effort to ensure the message is received as intended. I have been on both ends of it more than once.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

SMann said:


> Sorry for the misunderstanding. Internet communication can sometimes require more effort to ensure the message is received as intended. I have been on both ends of it more than once.


not a problem.... and to be honest, i am sure i will eventually stir up some sh!t here, but i prefer to do it intentionally ... LOL...

and for the record (there is a permanent record right?)

i will only ever recommend an item that i personally have used AND will continue to do so.... (be it guns, cigars, motorcycles .... whatever)

and if i do recommend them, i always try for full disclosure of any faults i find....

and lastly, i reserve the right to talk trash about ANYTHING i own or owned that was a piece of crap, but again, just the individual piece of crap that was mine (my 74 super glide, my lorcin .380, my davis .22 derringer, my ex wives)


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## C1 (Sep 25, 2010)

I would stay away from .45 GAP, as the ammo is higher priced, harder to find and is not any better than .45 ACP. I prefer the .45 ACP to .40 S&W, but you will need to see what you prefer. The recoil of a .45 ACP is more of a push vs. the .40 S&W which is snappier. 

I would buy two handguns. One in .22 Long Rifle and one in centerfire. For centerfire, I like (not in any particular order) Springfield XD or XDm, H&K USP, and Sig best. Ruger, CZ, Bersa, Beretta, Browning and FN make some decent ones too. Make sure they fit your hand well.


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## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

Thank you for all the responses, guys. I've definitely got a good starting point. I'm going to go handle some over the next few weeks and see if I can narrow things down the to three or so that fit my hand best and just feel right to me. I'll rent those and try the different calibers available.

I'll certainly report back on another thread to share what I've found works for me.

And by all means, keep posting to this thread; I'm an information junkie. :mrgreen:


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## MuckFassachusetts (Jul 20, 2011)

Just a little update...

Looks like I will be going for the Sig P220 Carry despite the low capacity compared to some others. I really prefer to have a .45ACP at my disposal, and the P220 Carry seems just about perfect for me. I've done a lot of research, and even listened to people present the "shot placement" case as it pertains to 9mm. FWIW, 9mm is a great round if you are at 100% capacity and are able to but rounds exactly where you want them. However, I know that I can put someone down more reliably with .45 even with less than ideal shot placement, so that wins for me. Not to mention, if I have to draw on someone, there's something about looking down the barrel o f a larger caliber handgun that makes some people think twice. 

As an aside, I'll be going with a Glock 21 for a "nightstand gun". If I'm woken up from a deep sleep to find that I need to grab my weapon, I need a simple "point-and-click" system that will fire reliably.

Thanks again for all your suggestions. There are lot of guns listed that will end up in my "inventory" at some point. 

Happy shooting!

Josh


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