# G3C Firing with Safety On.



## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Whoops.

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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh no another Taurus another problem. Say it ain't so.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Well, at least it's a little better than the model a few years back that would fire multiple times if you shook it hard enough. What junk...


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

RK3369 said:


> Well, at least it's a little better than the model a few years back that would fire multiple times if you shook it hard enough. What junk...


That particular model was the 24/7 SF("Shake Fire") used exclusively to intimidate captives under interrogation. You never quite knew when it would go off, something like a modified version of Russian Roulette and extremely effective at getting information/confessions


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Mmm, that's not good. Appreciate the heads up!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Damn, you mean these Taurus fanatics that get nasty when you don't convert have another "hole" in their argument?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

If I owned a Taurus, (I would never) I wouldn't be bragging about what a bargain it was. I would quietly trade it in at a loss and get something that could be counted on.

GW


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## mdi (Jan 11, 2020)

Hmmm. I can not remember ever "staging" or pulling a trigger half way through it's travel, then engaging the safety. When I fire my semi-autos and am going to pause, my finger comes off the trigger and I engage the safety. I guess some practice this "safety activation method", but I don't and don't know anyone that is in the habit...

I consider the "Anti-Taurus" group/advocates to be much like the "Lee Haters" and I pay very little (no) attention to their complaining or "I'd never..." posts...


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## Minorcan (Apr 18, 2020)

There is a line between inexpensive value and just cheap junk.. Taurus used to be a value but through incompetent greed become just plain junk, dangerous junk to boot.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

mdi said:


> Hmmm. I can not remember ever "staging" or pulling a trigger half way through it's travel, then engaging the safety. When I fire my semi-autos and am going to pause, my finger comes off the trigger and I engage the safety. I guess some practice this "safety activation method", but I don't and don't know anyone that is in the habit...
> ...


Regardless, it seems that either the safety shouldn't engage with the trigger "staged" as shown, or the trigger shouldn't be capable of staging with the safety engaged. Because it is a flaw in what should be possible, someone will likely be injured or killed and some attorney will make a fortune off it, but it surely seems like a safety problem.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

mdi said:


> Hmmm. I can not remember ever "staging" or pulling a trigger half way through it's travel, then engaging the safety. When I fire my semi-autos and am going to pause, my finger comes off the trigger and I engage the safety. I guess some practice this "safety activation method", but I don't and don't know anyone that is in the habit...
> .


I agree it's an odd situation - but it just flat out should not be able to do that. It IS unsafe.


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## mdi (Jan 11, 2020)

I'm not saying it's not a safety issue. I'm just saying one has to purposely create a situation to make the safety inactive. My driving is safe. But when I purposely do something out of normal driving conditions/methods, it can become unsafe. If I have a few beers before I drive to the next town, it is unsafe. If I drive without my glasses I'm unsafe. Normally I wouldn't do th


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

With Taurus being such a common gun for people with ZERO gun experience, yet buy a Taurus because they don't know better and are sucked in by the price... Don't think this won't happen to someone eventually...

And given the SO many problems that Taurus has had in the past... People have died and been shot from Taurus guns going off when dropped... And, look at that video of the Taurus going off when the gun is shaken... WHY would Taurus do this again?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

mdi said:


> I'm not saying it's not a safety issue. I'm just saying one has to purposely create a situation to make the safety inactive. My driving is safe. But when I purposely do something out of normal driving conditions/methods, it can become unsafe. If I have a few beers before I drive to the next town, it is unsafe. If I drive without my glasses I'm unsafe. Normally I wouldn't do th


You can be the safest driver in the world but driving an unsafe car doesn't make you any safer. What if the brakes fail or the steering linkage broke, the ball joints separated, you get hit from behind and the gas tank ruptured and burst into flames etc?


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## mdi (Jan 11, 2020)

An automobile or other mechanical tool or gun failure is different than a purposeful act that makes the tool/gun unsafe. If I didn't lube the steering linkage or do any preventative maintenance (even just looking), or raced over railroad track/speed bumps and took my sedan out "4 wheeling", then there would be a_ human failure, not an automobile failure._

I'm thinking a lot of the poor reviews and condemnation of the Taurus guns is mainly from "Taurus Haters" and very little logic applied...


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

mdi said:


> I'm thinking a lot of the poor reviews and condemnation of the Taurus guns is mainly from "Taurus Haters" and very little logic applied...


No gun should fire with the safety on in any way, shape, or form regardless of who makes it.

Full stop.

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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

mdi said:


> An automobile or other mechanical tool or gun failure is different than a purposeful act that makes the tool/gun unsafe. If I didn't lube the steering linkage or do any preventative maintenance (even just looking), or raced over railroad track/speed bumps and took my sedan out "4 wheeling", then there would be a_ human failure, not an automobile failure._
> 
> I'm thinking a lot of the poor reviews and condemnation of the Taurus guns is mainly from "Taurus Haters" and very little logic applied...


Apparently you just don't get it?

Maybe I should have worded it that you can be the safest driver on the road but driving a vehicle with cheap defective auto parts doesn't make you any safer?

You can be the safest mechanic in the world but using cheap defective Harbor Freight jack stands or tools doesn't make working on your car any safer. Taurus products are the Harbor Freight of guns, you get what you pay for and should expect nothing more than that.

What I don't understand is why all of the "Taurus lovers" out there will never admit that Taurus has had more than their fair share of problems when compared to most other gun manufacturers? Or why some get bent outta' shape when others give their opinions about them?

If people want to go out, buy and praise their Taurus products they have every right to do so. Just as we have every right to warn prospective gun buyers of the problems with their products. Let the buyer beware.

*Harbor Freight recalls 1.7 million jack stands, government ...*
www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/harbor-freight-recall...
May 28, 2020 · It's the latter of those two that has come back to bite us in the ass, however, because Harbor Freight is now recalling its Pittsburgh-brand six-ton jack stands over risks that they could collapse...

*Are Taurus firearms as bad as they are made out to be? A lot ...*
www.quora.com/Are-Taurus-firearms-as-bad-as-they...
It's not that most of the Taurus guns are bad per se, it's that quality control can be extremely uneven: cylinders with too much play in them, manufacturing defects, pistols that don't feed reliably. But they also have had some major problems with the designs themselves.


*Taurus Spectrum Review: Not Ready for Prime Time*
www.gunsholstersandgear.com/gun-reviews/taurus-spectrum...
It was a major headache to it's owner. People carry firearms to protect their lives. When needed, the firearm must perform flawlessly, or it's owner could be killed. It appears as though there are many problems with the Taurus Spectrum, yet Taurus, through it's dealer affiliates, continues to sell the gun.


*Gun Review: Taurus G3c 9mm Pistol - The Truth About Guns*
www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-taurus-g3c...
Aug 04, 2020 · Despite having top notch manufacturing equipment and machinery in Brazil, Taurus fails when it comes to simple quality control that should keep flawed out of tolerance guns from ever leaving the factory.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

What some people don't understand is that in order to make a cheaper product something has to give otherwise the manufacturer would go out of business. It boils down to the quality of the materials, the workforce, quality control and customer service. Then there are design flaws.

Not all steel is the same. You can make two identical products made of different grades of steel. They both look and feel the same however the one that costs more is made of a better grade steel and will last a lot longer.

If a company hires a highly skilled workforce they're gonna' have to pay them more than a company that hires mediocre or poorly skilled employees. Obviously a highly skilled employee is going to turn out a quality made product.

Next is quality control and customer service. Both depend on the people performing those tasks. But there again if you want the best people they have to be paid for what they are worth. Otherwise they would quit and find a better company to work for.

Usually companies that have a high turnover of employees means that they have to constantly train new one's only to have them turn around and quit. Which for obvious reasons has a profound affect on the products they produce.

Last are design flaws, not all engineers have the same capabilities either. Experienced engineers too will obviously command a higher salary.

In order to keep the cost of their products down it's my guess that Taurus has a combination of those issues or all of them.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

mdi said:


> Hmmm. I can not remember ever "staging" or pulling a trigger half way through it's travel, then engaging the safety. When I fire my semi-autos and am going to pause, my finger comes off the trigger and I engage the safety. I guess some practice this "safety activation method", but I don't and don't know anyone that is in the habit...
> 
> I consider the "Anti-Taurus" group/advocates to be much like the "Lee Haters" and I pay very little (no) attention to their complaining or "I'd never..." posts...


That struck me as very odd also, round chambered ,,,,and then the trigger was pulled halfway before engaging the safety.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

desertman said:


> What some people don't understand is that in order to make a cheaper product something has to give otherwise the manufacturer would go out of business. It boils down to the quality of the materials, the workforce, quality control and customer service. Then there are design flaws.
> 
> Not all steel is the same. You can make two identical products made of different grades of steel. They both look and feel the same however the one that costs more is made of a better grade steel and will last a lot longer.
> 
> ...


Steel grade, absolutely. 
You don't hear much about how important steel quality is. 
Polymers , are they all equal??


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm waiting to hear about how my handgun curved because of the terrible quality of polymer. 
Maybe they'll just call it the curve


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

mdi said:


> I'm thinking a lot of the poor reviews and condemnation of the Taurus guns is mainly from "Taurus Haters" and very little logic applied...


I'm thinking that some people are so mule headed stubborn that they never made a poor choice that they have to defend the dangerous junk they bought and then go on to encourage others to make the same mistake. Misery indeed loves company, doesn't it?

GW


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

SOOOO... many other rock solid choices in firearms other than Taurus.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> That struck me as very odd also, round chambered ,,,,and then the trigger was pulled halfway before engaging the safety.


I could see a new shooter, shooting pin and reset, engaging the safety with their offhand before letting the trigger come fully forward.

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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> Steel grade, absolutely.
> You don't hear much about how important steel quality is.
> *Polymers , are they all equal??*


My guess is probably not? Like everything else you get what you pay for.

Forged steel and aluminum parts are much stronger than cast or MIM (Metal Injection Molded) parts.
The parts are first cast then hammer forged which packs the molecules and atoms tighter together. As such they are stronger and harder to machine. Cast parts are made of metal that is heated until molten and then poured into a mold. MIM parts are made with a fine powdered steel mixed with a binder and injected into a mold which is then heated and solidified.

Some parts such as slides, barrels and frames are machined from solid blocks of forged steel, or stainless steel. Forged aluminum frames are also used and common on higher end firearms.

MIM parts are the cheapest to manufacture and are used where high strength is not required.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> I could see a new shooter, shooting pin and reset, engaging the safety with their offhand before letting the trigger come fully forward.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I could see that, but the video showed the operator pulling the trigger and then engaging the safety. 
I also realize he was demonstrating the safety issue or lack of , lol.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> Steel grade, absolutely.
> You don't hear much about how important steel quality is.
> Polymers , are they all equal??


No, not all polymers are equal. Some will melt when cleansers like GunScrubber are used.

They had to come out with a 2nd line of "polymer safe" GunScrubber.

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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> I could see that, but the video showed the operator pulling the trigger and then engaging the safety.
> I also realize he was demonstrating the safety issue or lack of , lol.


Right. Let's say someone is shooting pin and reset and forgets the reset and engages the safety.

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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> I could see a new shooter, shooting pin and reset, engaging the safety with their offhand before letting the trigger come fully forward.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I looked up the gun very quickly, seems to have a second strike capability.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

if all those Taurus models have the same safety flaw , they should have a major recall


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## mdi (Jan 11, 2020)

Goldwing said:


> I'm thinking that some people are so mule headed stubborn that they never made a poor choice that they have to defend the dangerous junk they bought and then go on to encourage others to make the same mistake. Misery indeed loves company, doesn't it?
> 
> GW


I'm thinking the mule headed stubbornness is condemning a whole product line because they read of a failure on a forum somewhere on line, not thinking for themselves. Stubborn refusal to find facts and relying on internet wisdom, just like stiff necked, stubborn, ill informed Lee Haters...

FWIW my experience with Taurus hand guns has been 100% positive. I have several thousand rounds through my Taurus guns with_ zero problems..._

I have seen tool snobbery having worked in a heavy equipment repair facility for a large city water and power department. "If it ain't Snap-On (or MAC, or Matco, etc.) it's junk". "If it is the most expensive, it's the best, right?" This snobbery is also seen in the firearms community, with the mindless following of unsubstantiated claims/condemning "facts". I saw the videos of the Taurus safety "problems" and I don't need to defend the company and in my mind, but from what I saw someone found out a way to "handicap" the safety, _on purpose._ With your "hater thinking" why isn't there any massive condemnation of Colt? The new, expensive Colt Python had to be recalled. Where's the outrage?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

mdi said:


> I'm thinking the mule headed stubbornness is condemning a whole product line because they read of a failure on a forum somewhere on line, not thinking for themselves. Stubborn refusal to find facts and relying on internet wisdom, just like stiff necked, stubborn, ill informed Lee Haters...
> 
> FWIW my experience with Taurus hand guns has been 100% positive. I have several thousand rounds through my Taurus guns with_ zero problems..._
> 
> I have seen tool snobbery having worked in a heavy equipment repair facility for a large city water and power department. "If it ain't Snap-On (or MAC, or Matco, etc.) it's junk". "If it is the most expensive, it's the best, right?" This snobbery is also seen in the firearms community, with the mindless following of unsubstantiated claims/condemning "facts". I saw the videos of the Taurus safety "problems" and I don't need to defend the company and in my mind, but from what I saw someone found out a way to "handicap" the safety, _on purpose._ With your "hater thinking" why isn't there any massive condemnation of Colt? The new, expensive Colt Python had to be recalled. Where's the outrage?


Do you need a link to the Colt section on where to post that? Also, I don't see a recall notice on the Python but if you know of one please feel free to post it.

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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

mdi said:


> . With your "hater thinking" why isn't there any massive condemnation of Colt? The new, expensive Colt Python had to be recalled. Where's the outrage?


Well, maybe because Colt's weapons have not killed people because the gun either went off on its own, or went off when it was dropped and shot someone... .

Colt did not get sued multiple times for wrongful death.

Colt did not make weapons that go off when you shake them.

Colt has not had 4-5 CEOs each claim they will improve quality, only to be replaced by the next CEO and have nothing change. Each basically kept towing the same tired line...

Colt has not had so many gunstores quit carrying their weapons due to quality so poor, that Taurus made up such a high % of problems that they just pulled the plug on the brand completely.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

mdi said:


> With your "hater thinking" why isn't there any massive condemnation of Colt? The new, expensive Colt Python had to be recalled. Where's the outrage?


The big difference is that Colt has a legendary reputation for inventing new designs that set the standard for well over a century. Taurus' successes were mere copies of other companies products.

GW


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

mdi said:


> I'm thinking the mule headed stubbornness is condemning a whole product line because they read of a failure on a forum somewhere on line, not thinking for themselves. Stubborn refusal to find facts and relying on internet wisdom, just like stiff necked, stubborn, ill informed Lee Haters...
> 
> FWIW my experience with Taurus hand guns has been 100% positive. I have several thousand rounds through my Taurus guns with_ zero problems..._
> 
> I have seen tool snobbery having worked in a heavy equipment repair facility for a large city water and power department. "If it ain't Snap-On (or MAC, or Matco, etc.) it's junk". "If it is the most expensive, it's the best, right?" This snobbery is also seen in the firearms community, with the mindless following of unsubstantiated claims/condemning "facts". I saw the videos of the Taurus safety "problems" and I don't need to defend the company and in my mind, but from what I saw someone found out a way to "handicap" the safety, _on purpose._ With your "hater thinking" why isn't there any massive condemnation of Colt? The new, expensive Colt Python had to be recalled. Where's the outrage?


You don't find too many Harbor Freight tools in a mechanic's tool box and for good reason. The same reason why you don't find too many Taurus products in the hands of law enforcement agencies along with the military.

I look at guns the same way as I look at tools. I may need a gun to save my life and I certainly do not want my vehicle to fall on me due to faulty jack stands. Or at the very least smash my f'n hands when a breaker bar, ratchet or wrench fails. Nor do I want to get hit when the head of my ball peen hammer comes flying off, have it put a nice dent in my car or go flying through the windshield.

I've owned and restored cars for the better part of my life along with working on guns. I do not want to get into or cause an accident because I was penny wise and pound foolish and bought the most cheaply made auto parts that I could find. I also do not want any of my guns to fail me at the worst possible time. Buying a Taurus to me is not worth that risk no matter how small that may be.

None of this has anything to do with snobbery or hate. Taurus products are what they are, cheaply made handguns, with poor customer service. It is what it is, there's no way getting around that. As such they've had more than their share of problems and complaints when compared with other brands. What I don't understand is why someone would buy a cheap handgun, but at the same time be willing to spend thousands of dollars on ammo to shoot out of that same gun? That just doesn't make any sense to me?

Sure the new, expensive Colt Python had to be recalled. Just about every manufacturer has had a product recalled at one time or the other. But with Taurus it's on a regular basis with any number of their products. It's for that reason that there's not too many people on this forum praising the virtues of them.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

VAMarine said:


> Do you need a link to the Colt section on where to post that?* Also, I don't see a recall notice on the Python but if you know of one please feel free to post it.*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Apparently there has been no recall. I too was under the impression that there was.


*American Rifleman | The Keefe Report: Colt Addresses Python ...*
www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2020/2/24/the...
To be clear, there is no recall, but there will be some small changes as production moves forward. Colt's Justin Baldini explains it all in a clear and helpful video here.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Here's a direct link to the video:






GW


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Yes, I've been aware of these issues, they were also discussed here.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=46241&share_type=t&link_source=app

Python Getting Slammed

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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

What you won't see however and its absence is kind of telling is a bunch of people being accused of being snobbish haters of Colt. 

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## mdi (Jan 11, 2020)

Shipwreck said:


> Well, maybe because Colt's weapons have not killed people because the gun either went off on its own, or went off when it was dropped and shot someone... .


Perhaps but what are the "Accidental/Negligent" discharge death tolls for the Taurus? My whole point is a lot of folks are condemning a gun that one has to go through a s_pecific procedure to make the safety fail._ And many of the complainants fit the "Taurus Hater" catagory.

Flame if your egos need, I'm done...


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Taurus bashers need to add a sticky thread, I'm not a Taurus fan, but y'all need to chill out


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> What you won't see however and its absence is kind of telling is a bunch of people being accused of being snobbish haters of Colt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Interpretation would be nice , I say people don't understand.
What are you saying. ??


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Taurus sells more handguns then anyone globally,


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> Interpretation would be nice , I say people don't understand.
> What are you saying. ??


That people can point out the shortcomings of other guns and not be called names for it.

I can post all day along about a Ruger recall or a Colt issue and no one cares. I post a video about a Taurus firing with the safety on and can get labeled as a snob and a hater.

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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

VAMarine said:


> That people can point out the shortcomings of other guns and not be called names for it.


There are lots of people who voice their dislike of Glock pistols. They have their reasons and it doesn't bother me at all. I just disagree.
I don't call them a "HATER". I don't try to sell them a Glock either.

GW


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> Taurus sells more handguns then anyone globally,


I'd love to see a source for that.

Looking at ATF data for 2018 we have Taurus at 94,600 pistols (includes revolvers) and Glock at 247,546, and Ruger at 515,348.

Granted that's just US data so we're not even looking at Glock Austria.

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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> I'd love to see a source for that.
> 
> Looking at ATF data for 2018 we have Taurus at 94,600 pistols (includes revolvers) and Glock at 247,546, and Ruger at 515,348.
> 
> ...


Also...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAQegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1unySa86Frl7tzbEjcFFKM









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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Also, in.2018 Brazil (not just Taurus) trailed Austria in importation of handguns to the US by 250,000+/-









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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

mdi said:


> Perhaps but what are the "Accidental/Negligent" discharge death tolls for the Taurus? My whole point is a lot of folks are condemning a gun that one has to go through a s_pecific procedure to make the safety fail._ And many of the complainants fit the "Taurus Hater" catagory.
> 
> Flame if your egos need, I'm done...


Go back and read the past posts on the Taurus Quality thread... Just a page or two back from the last page.... I posted links to some of the previous lawsuits info. I've done enough "research" - between that and my looking into the comments of CEOs who all promise the same thing, but nothing ever changes...

If you want death totals, go look that up yourself. You are the one disputing things and whatever is said is never enough "proof".... They are not "Negligent discharges", either. The guns went off on their own and shot and/or killed people.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> There are lots of people who voice their dislike of Glock pistols. They have their reasons and it doesn't bother me at all. I just disagree.
> I don't call them a "HATER". I don't try to sell them a Glock either.
> 
> GW


Yes, I said it earlier in another Taurus thread. Beretta is my favorite brand. But hell, I complaint about some things they all the time. And when someone doesn't like Beretta - I don't really care. Taurus fans turn it into a religion...


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> That people can point out the shortcomings of other guns and not be called names for it.
> 
> I can post all day along about a Ruger recall or a Colt issue and no one cares. I post a video about a Taurus firing with the safety on and can get labeled as a snob and a hater.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


The hate bashing is getting old and repetitive, you posted a great video of a performance issue. No problem.
It brought out the same repetitive bashes we've read over n over.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> Also, in.2018 Brazil (not just Taurus) trailed Austria in importation of handguns to the US by 250,000+/-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly, the hate bashing is repetitive,,,,,,,,
Don't you agree on repetitiveness


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Shouldn't we advise newbies to read some threads about past posts,,,,instead of doing it all over again. It's unbelievable


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If we're doing the chill out, Taurus bashing is number 2 on the list


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Paratrooper upsets the whole forum with politics, where's the chill out.
???
He's got scientists and medical personnel acting up his blanket statements.
Where's the chill out ???


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

We all know about Taurus ands its shortcomings, why crucify a member who asks a question about his piece. Shouldn't we be teaching instead??


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

brazil has a grasp on


VAMarine said:


> I'd love to see a source for that.
> 
> Looking at ATF data for 2018 we have Taurus at 94,600 pistols (includes revolvers) and Glock at 247,546, and Ruger at 515,348.
> 
> ...


doesn't matter the data, it's the attitude of any Taurus question ,,,our advice has been very consistent 
Are we second graders with the same ole bashing of Taurus, alright already, they suck .
Is that our journey men's advice, its not appropriate.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Is it necessary to post 7 separate posts? 4 didn't even quote anything and could have all been in 1 single post...

This thread was started to show people who own this gun the danger of the way the safety worked... The gun can go off with the safety activated, AND it may not be drop safe. Given the record Taurus has on this issue, it's really deplorable that we are seeing this again...

Don't like that? Sorry... It's the truth....


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

The Taurus bashing is annoying but people are responsible for their own actions and will be held accountable for them. I try to ease in with a heads up about behavior when I can, bit quite frankly I'm one dude and I've got better things to do with my time than baby sit a bunch of supposed to be grown ups that can't go 5 minutes without being assholes to each other. Left to my own devices about 80% of this forum would nuked off the server. But its not my forum. I try to be as hands off as possible.

As for "bashing" Simply going into a thread and being like "ope , one more for the Taurus is junk file" shouldn't be met with anything other than huh maybe I should pay attention to what looks like an abundance of data points about this product or maybe they should just ignore it for as long as they are happy with their products. I really don't care either way, its not my gun fight and its not my time and money spent on X product.

But what I do care about is members taking to name calling of anyone that disagrees with them,

This dude Rancid for example has been banned from at least 3 forums.

He was banned for his BS attitude on a TAURUS FORUM before coming here and starting shit, and once he gat banned here he runs over to TFL and got banned there, probably for the same song and dance of being a jerk.

People can argue whatever they want and as long as they keep it civil it's no thing, but seriously there's been at least 4 members like Rancid that lost all manner of decorum because people "bash" Taurus, and honestly the arguments being made against them is pretty strong. It's hard to call it bashing when its based on a lot of fact. There have been multiple law suits (that Taurus has LOST!), there have been multiple fatalities, there have been multiple injuries, 100,000 Taurus guns were pulled from Military Police in Brazil....these are facts. You can't find another quality maker with this frequency of issues.

For as many legit, documented problems As there are this is like Jennings / Jimenez issues, not major player issues.

As for education and helping new members, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here that has spent a much time trying to help new people as Shipwreck and I. I haven't been as much in the last couple of years and that's too bad but I have higher priorities in my family, my health and an actual job that pays for my time.

When someone comes here with a Taurus (or a Taurus problem) they are met with basically two responses:
1: hahaha POS Taurus
2: damn dude, that sucks, good thing you have that warranty and OH BTW that might not help as much as you think. Here's 37 reasons why you might want to get out of that gun if you can.

More often than not, its #2. On the occasion its #1 it's usually a little more tame.

In those cases its #1, users can report posts or better yet send me a PM as I'm not always around but have been checking back in more regularly...

#2 above IS educational. Is it a great answer? Maybe, maybe not. But it's hard to help out beyond that and in the long road if someone is going to be doing the gun thing for a while it might be what they need to hear.

And likewise, there are plenty of members here that have Taurus products and are happy with them, they don't pretend the issues outlined above don't exist, they don't try to make excuses for it (still waiting for that source that Taurus sells the most handguns, not that it would make up for their dumpster fire of a company) they just say, "yup, it's cheap but it works OK so..." and there's nothing wrong with that.

And its not even a Brazil thing. I'm a big fan of Springfield Armory 1911s and 80% of their 1911s are completely made in Brazil and the 20% that aren't just get a tad more work done in the US and are still made using Brazilian parts.

The bottom line is this I try to treat everyone fairly and I try to treat content fairly.

Some people come to this forum with a huge chip on their shoulder and it shows, see the pic of dude being so proud of telling fourm staff to fuck himself... not really gonna win any hearts and minds with that noise.

And then there were dudes like Cannon that despite the negative opinions of Taurus never said anything bad about anyone. If you want to change hearts and minds that's the way.

Any way, I'm rambling....

Have a good one.

Don't be a 

Political posts suck.

That is all.










Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> We all know about Taurus ands its shortcomings, why crucify a member who asks a question about his piece. Shouldn't we be teaching instead??


Do me a favor, look at this thread and tell me when a antagonistic posts toward members started.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> Do me a favor, look at this thread and tell me when a antagonistic posts toward members started.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Shipwreck


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> Shipwreck


Post #?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Shipwreck said:


> Is it necessary to post 7 separate posts? 4 didn't even quote anything and could have all been in 1 single post...
> 
> This thread was started to show people who own this gun the danger of the way the safety worked... The gun can go off with the safety activated, AND it may not be drop safe. Given the record Taurus has on this issue, it's really deplorable that we are seeing this again...
> 
> Don't like that? Sorry... It's the truth....


Who are you quoting ?, or us it a blanket statement?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> Post #?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Y'all need to chill out, it's getting out of hand.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

a moderator or administrator shouldn't bash a member or members when it may hurt a members participation . 
When VAMarine said chill out with the politics, he was absolutely correct in doing so. Thank you. 
Think about it


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> We all know about Taurus ands its shortcomings, why crucify a member who asks a question about his piece. Shouldn't we be teaching instead??


We are teaching. We are teaching people who are interested in buying a gun and doing their research, part of which is going to forums such as this one that buying a Taurus made product is a crap shoot at best. You may get a good one and love every aspect of it. But that does not negate the fact that Taurus products are cheaply made guns that have had more than their share of issues when compared to other brands. Not only with their products but dealing with the company itself when problems do arise. As a consumer and especially if I was a first time gun buyer I would certainly want to know. It's no more complicated then that.

I'm not trying to rain on somebody's parade. If they love their Taurus products, have had no issues with them that's great I'm happy for them. But there are just too many people who do not fall into that category. We're not talking about buying a product that if it fails it would pose no danger to the end user or anyone else. We're talking about buying a product that one day your life may depend on. A product that could cause death or serious bodily injury to not only the end user but to innocent people as well in the case of an accidental discharge due to a faulty design or parts failure.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> That people can point out the shortcomings of other guns and not be called names for it.
> 
> I can post all day along about a Ruger recall or a Colt issue and no one cares. I post a video about a Taurus firing with the safety on and can get labeled as a snob and a hater.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


PERFECT you were not snobbish, it was informative.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

desertman said:


> We are teaching. We are teaching people who are interested in buying a gun and doing their research, part of which is going to forums such as this one that buying a Taurus made product is a crap shoot at best. You may get a good one and love every aspect of it. But that does not negate the fact that Taurus products are cheaply made guns that have had more than their share of issues when compared to other brands. Not only with their products but dealing with the company itself when problems do arise. As a consumer and especially if I was a first time gun buyer I would certainly want to know. It's no more complicated then that.
> 
> I'm not trying to rain on somebody's parade. If they love their Taurus products, have had no issues with them that's great I'm happy for them. But there are just too many people who do not fall into that category. We're not talking about buying a product that if it fails it would pose no danger to the end user or anyone else. We're talking about buying a product that one day your life may depend on. A product that could cause death or serious bodily injury to not only the end user but to innocent people as well in the case of an accidental discharge due to a faulty design or parts failure.


Exactly the likely information we should use to create a sticky thread , instead of repeating it over n over


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> Exactly the likely information we should use to create a sticky thread , instead of repeating it over n over


There is a sticky thread.

https://www.handgunforum.net/xf/threads/taurus-quality.26348/

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=46241&share_type=t&link_source=app

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

No private messages, SHIP WRECK N VAMarine. Lol ( teasing )


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

desertman said:


> We are teaching. We are teaching people who are interested in buying a gun and doing their research, part of which is going to forums such as this one that buying a Taurus made product is a crap shoot at best. You may get a good one and love every aspect of it. But that does not negate the fact that Taurus products are cheaply made guns that have had more than their share of issues when compared to other brands. Not only with their products but dealing with the company itself when problems do arise. As a consumer and especially if I was a first time gun buyer I would certainly want to know. It's no more complicated then that.
> 
> I'm not trying to rain on somebody's parade. If they love their Taurus products, have had no issues with them that's great I'm happy for them. But there are just too many people who do not fall into that category. We're not talking about buying a product that if it fails it would pose no danger to the end user or anyone else. We're talking about buying a product that one day your life may depend on. A product that could cause death or serious bodily injury to not only the end user but to innocent people as well in the case of an accidental discharge due to a faulty design or parts failure.


You are very knowledgeable in my opinion, you write much better then most, myself included. 
An opinion I thought,,, might be useful in the teaching method is teaching verses scolding ,lol, many don't understand guns as well as you. 
You are very mechanically inclined outside the world of handguns also. 
IMO, teaching is a skill to bring someone closer to your opinion. 
SCOLDING will create a distance.

We've been scolded all our lives, worked for us , lol


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> Exactly the likely information we should use to create a sticky thread , instead of repeating it over n over


I'm not all that computer literate, so I'm not sure what you mean by a "sticky thread"? I think it means under a separate category? If that's the case then there's already 40 pages related to Taurus products. I believe that this thread originated on Sep 2 2020 as a new thread? Therefore it elicited the responses that it did, just as a newspaper headline would.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve1911a1, 
He has a great way of pulling people in, teaching.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> You are very knowledgeable in my opinion, you write much better then most, myself included.
> An opinion I thought,,, might be useful in the teaching method is teaching verses scolding ,lol, many don't understand guns as well as you.
> You are very mechanically inclined outside the world of handguns also.
> IMO, teaching is a skill to bring someone closer to your opinion.
> ...


Thank You Pic!

I hope that I don't come across as trying to scold anyone, that's never been my intention. If I do I sincerely apologize for that.

Mechanical objects have always been my thing. If it's got moving parts that interact with each other to perform a certain function I'm all in. I'm lucky in that regard as I can solve a lot of my own problems when things go wrong without having to depend on others. I save a lot of money too, money that I can use to buy more guns.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

desertman said:


> I'm not all that computer literate, so I'm not sure what you mean by a "sticky thread"?.


"Sticky" is a post at the top of each section. It never moves down, even if not posted on for a while.

The "Taurus Quality" post is a sticky


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

pic said:


> Who are you quoting ?, or us it a blanket statement?


Really?









You posted many, many short posts. 7 posts in a row, 4 with no quotes... Some just 1 or 2 sentences...

Why not just put those 4 into 1 post. No need to post so many short posts... That is what I was saying...



pic said:


> Y'all need to chill out, it's getting out of hand.


Nothing has gotten out of hand. You jumped in and started arguing.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> "Sticky" is a post at the top of each section. It never moves down, even if not posted on for a while.
> 
> The "Taurus Quality" post is a sticky


Thanks for clearing that up!


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Shipwreck said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, you're correct, sorry about that. Semi auto mode. (Teasing )


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