# What's Wrong With Kimbers?



## Dignan

Hi,

I'm new to 1911's having just bought a Ruger SR1911 CMD. I have the itch for a good quality full sized but all I can find locally are Kimbers. More than one person I know has said to stay away from Kimbers…with no details. This was before I considered buying one more seriously.

I read they can be problematic until broken in, and see those "complaints" a lot. I intend to buy brand new

Do they have any other proclivities I should know about be aware of?

Any models to be sought after or avoided? I'm thinking ~$1400 max to spend.

I did shoot one older model I liked alot but don't recall what it was. Army MP's sidearm so perhaps it fits some specs requirements for that. He paid $700 for it brand new and has had it for a quite a few years….

Thanks,

Dignan


----------



## rex

In general their quality control is hit and miss. They have gotten better in the last few years but it's still an issue. I also believe they are overpriced to help pay for the multitude of ads they run in every gun magazine.

If they work they are a good gun, if they don't it may be simple or a major screwup. I personally dislike their firing pin safety, Colt tried it and abandoned it 80 years ago. It works off the grip safety so 2 things can happen, one is if you have a problem fully depressing the safety you can either ding up the blocking plunger or get no primer hit. The other is if you have a problem in the lockwork like a catastrophic sear failure or a Bubba trigger job that causes the hammer to drop (as opposed to catching the 1/2 cock safety notch), you will get an unintentional discharge if you're holding the gun.

They do make some without the FP safety but I don't know which models. Personally for $1400 I'd look to a Colt or Springfield, with Colt being built to original specs moreso than most guns out there. VA Marine has a post somewhere in here about Kimbers and I agree with what he says.


----------



## desertman

I have three, Super Carry Pro, RCP II and a Solo and have had no issues with any of them. The Super Carry Pro does not have the firing pin safety, while the RCP II does, hence the II designation, I believe that all Kimber models that have a "II" has the firing pin safety. While re-assembling the slide to the frame you have to be careful not to engage the grip safety or you could damage or shear off the top of the pin that protrudes through the top of the frame that operates the firing pin safety plunger, and the gun will not fire. I'm not sure but I think that Kimber's system is simpler than the Colt's firing pin safety system on Colt's series 80 pistols which works off of a series of levers, while Kimber's work off of the grip safety. On Kimbers, while the grip safety is depressed it pushes up on a pin which then pushes up through the top of the frame, depressing the firing pin safety plunger in the slide. Whereas Colt's series 80 pistols works from a series of levers that contact the trigger bar, and is disengaged when the trigger is pulled, some have said that this results in a heavier trigger pull since it works off the trigger bar? I also have an early "1927" vintage Colt 1911 .45, whether it's a better pistol is certainly debatable, as for me I can't say which one is better, they all go "bang" when I pull the trigger, and I've haven't noticed any difference in accuracy. In my opinion there is no perfect pistol, what works for one may not work for the another. Some people like Ford, some like Chevy or Dodge, you be the judge. The debate goes on.


----------



## Glock Doctor

There's always these: Springfield Armory


----------



## paratrooper

Look into a SIG 1911. All the quality you could want, and *NO* _issues_ what-so-ever.

Kimber recommends shooting a certain number of rounds before their gun(s) gets broken in. You should never have to break-in a gun. It should fire perfectly from the very first round fired.


----------



## Dignan

Thanks,

So it appears the main issue in the FPS, a break-in period and possibly customer service.

I visited several local gun shops today and found a number of 1911's; Sigs, Colt, SA, MAC and couple others I did not handle.

The Kimber had far and away the tightest slide and finest fit and finish. Not that the others were particularly lacking but Kimber has better detailing.

Each store had some model 70 and 80 and said no reported issues with either but personally owned the 80 for safety.

One had an indoor range with a Kimber in the rental mix and has been flawless.

I found a brand new TLE for $1099 and owner said he'd lower that…..

IF I had no prior influences about Kimber I easily would have bought it as it stood out from the crowd, of available 1911's locally, in fit and finish and overall feel.

Hmmmm….I know the internet can be the worst place for reviews as if you look for bad you'll find it and if you look for good you'll find those as well. No perfect 1911's in my price range…

Thanks,

Dignan


----------



## MoMan

I have a Kimber, SS, Custom Target II that I've had for a couple of years and it has been flawless! 
Funny but I bought a Ruger SR1911CMD a few months back and love that pistol also!
I have all kinds of firearms and do not seem to have problems with any of them! I wonder if it's because I give them the attention the need!


----------



## Cait43

Dignan said:


> What's wrong with Kimber's?


Simple answer, nothing....... Basically when it come down to well known firearm manufacturers weapons its the same as Coke or Pepsi, Ford or Chevy...... Which firearm to purchase is a personal matter based on caliber, "feel" of the weapon, how it shoots and other factors... There is, and never will be, no weapon(handgun) that is best for all......

Best advise...... Fire as many weapons as you can and then purchase the one suited for you and no else........


----------



## paratrooper

What I've found to be very helpful, is to listen to others and what they have to say about something. I've heard good things and bad things about Kimbers. But, it tends to be about 50/50. 

For me, that's not good enough. When you keep hearing the same problems or issues over and over, it tends to give credence. 

I'm not going to shell out the kind of money that Kimber wants, only to hope that I got a good one. And, I'm not going to fire 900 rds. or so, hoping that it will get better in the process. That's total BS. 

There's a bunch of good firearms out there to choose from. More now then ever before.


----------



## shaolin

I have a Kimber Pro CDP 2 and have not had any problems with it at all.


----------



## desertman

paratrooper:


> "Kimber recommends shooting a certain number of rounds before their gun(s) gets broken in. You should never have to break-in a gun. It should fire perfectly from the very first round fired."


They certainly do! But as of yet, I've had no issues with the ones I have straight from the box although the CDP II, I bought used. I forgot to mention in my previous post that my favorite 1911 is the Detonics "Combat Master" all stainless steel and no "MIM" parts. I have a Sig P229 Equinox and a P238 HDW both are excellent weapons and I have no doubt that their 1911's are the same. I think when you get into custom 1911's, Ed Brown, Les Bear, Wilson etc. they already "break their guns in" by putting 1000 rounds or so through their guns before they go out the door, which I'm sure are added to the cost of the gun. I saw a show on TV where they make those guns and how they fitted the slide to the frame by pounding it on with a mallet and hand filed both the slide and frame to the proper specs. The problem with that is if you ever wanted to change the slide your "SOL", as opposed to mass produced "CNC" machined 1911's, such as the Kimber. It's my opinion that the Kimber is the closest thing to a "custom" 1911 without shelling out $3000 and the parts are readily interchangeable. Kimber also offers a wide variety of 1911's to suit just every need.



> "There's a bunch of good firearms out there to choose from. More now then ever before."


Ain't that the truth! Thank God for competition.


----------



## desertman

MoMan:


> "I have all kinds of firearms and do not seem to have problems with any of them! I wonder if it's because I give them the attention the need!"


Same here!


----------



## Dignan

paratrooper said:


> What I've found to be very helpful, is to listen to others and what they have to say about something. I've heard good things and bad things about Kimbers. But, it tends to be about 50/50.
> .


Well 50/50 might be good!

I checked my Amazon reviews and found my complaints about 8/10! I noticed I had a lot of great products I had neglected to rate at all! I have ~50 reviews.

Known fact most people gripe before the praise. 50/50 means a median of probably happy people so figure that in.

This would have made an interesting project for my stats class&#8230;.

Thanks,

Dignan


----------



## Dignan

desertman said:


> paratrooper:I think when you get into custom 1911's, Ed Brown, Les Bear, Wilson etc. they already "break their guns in" by putting 1000 rounds or so through their guns before they go out the door, which I'm sure are added to the cost of the gun.


You'd think,

But Baer and Wilson also have prescribed break-in periods.

The worst FTF and break in issues I found in a short search were with a new Baer&#8230;.rounds double feeding and jamming cock-eyed&#8230;

Just sayin'

Dignan


----------



## desertman

Dignan:


> "The worst FTF and break in issues I found in a short search were with a new Baer&#8230;.rounds double feeding and jamming cock-eyed&#8230;"


That's due to their tight tolerances, I guess if you are shooting them from a bench rest they would be more accurate than other less expensive alternatives, but for the average person would it make that much of a difference at close range in a self defense situation or punching holes at 25 yards? Maybe to a competition shooter. The other issue is what happens when those guns get dirty because of those tolerances? I find that no matter what type or make of gun that I'm shooting I pretty much get the same groups, regardless. You can also "break in" a gun by polishing the slide rails, frame rails, breach face and other bearing surfaces without the expenditure of 1000 rounds which in a way is accomplishing the same thing, and it's a lot cheaper, and less frustrating than having to deal with the "FTF's" and "FTE's" of some new semi auto's. I have never owned a "custom" 1911, I could never justify the cost. I'd rather have two or three other really nice guns than just one "custom" 1911. I've found that Kimber makes a really nice 1911, and I don't regret buying them, nothing against Springfield or Sig, I wouldn't mind one of those either. But I have four 1911's already, don't know if I need another, on second thought that Springfield "Micro" 1911 looks enticing or maybe the Sig, S&W, or Ruger 1911?


----------



## buckhorn_cortez

> Ed Brown, Les Bear, Wilson etc. they already "break their guns in" by putting 1000 rounds or so through their guns before they go out the door, which I'm sure are added to the cost of the gun.


No they don't. Wilson shoots the most as they use three different types of bullets (weights and profiles) to ensure the gun will run with a variety of ammunition. They shoot approximately 75-100 rounds through each gun. Baer shoots about two magazines. Ed Brown - have no idea.



> But Baer and Wilson also have prescribed break-in periods.


Not exactly accurate. The only thing Baer and Wilson recommend is not cleaning the pistol for a certain number of rounds. Neither manufacturer says anything about "break-in" in the literature that comes with the pistol.



> The other issue is what happens when those guns get dirty because of those tolerances?


Nothing. The "loose guns run more reliably" is a meme that gets repeated ad nauseam on the Internet. In use, a tightly fitted 1911 doesn't allow the dirt into the rails, and if lubricated properly, just pushes anything that gets on the rails out of the way. I have two Wilsons, a Les Baer, and a custom built by Bob Marvel. I also have two Dan Wessons - I don't think there's a bit of difference in the tightness between any of the guns. I keep them lubricated, and only clean them about every 750 - 1,000 rounds and they all run reliably. I've shot 1,800 rounds without cleaning through the Dan Wesson Valor and it was still functioning reliably. It was just so cruddy that a friend couldn't stand it anymore and cleaned it for me.


----------



## 1razorback

I have two each of the following. Les baer, sig and kimber and all of them reliable out of the box and I have ordered another les baer monolith 10-14 month delivery date. I would have to say I prefer the les baers.


----------



## paratrooper

I considered a Kimber years ago. I came very close to buying one. But.....in the back of my mind, I kept going over and over what I had heard from others who owned them and had shot them. 

Of course the sales guy was 100% Kimber, and told me that what I had been hearing, was just hogwash.....his words.....not mine. That was just enough for me to back off the purchase. 

Anyways, that was long ago and to this day, I don't regret not having bought it or not owning a Kimber. I'm more than happy with what I have.


----------



## hammer1

I will say, I have no experience with the new kimbers. I DO have a old kimber custom that has been reliable from day one, its been shot alot, several thousand rounds. I remember 3 malfunctions, 2 from my early handload experiments, and the third was in the first 50 rounds I fired through it. I paid 600 bucks for it nib


----------



## BigCityChief

I have 2 Kimbers - no problems with either one.


----------



## rex

Dignan said:


> Well 50/50 might be good!
> 
> I checked my Amazon reviews and found my complaints about 8/10! I noticed I had a lot of great products I had neglected to rate at all! I have ~50 reviews.
> 
> Known fact most people gripe before the praise. 50/50 means a median of probably happy people so figure that in.
> 
> This would have made an interesting project for my stats class&#8230;.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dignan


That 50/50 is kind of ironic, an old poll of 1911 failures by brand pretty much summed that up on Kimbers.

What was said about old Kimbers is true, the first run were great guns until they thought they were going to claim the market. Well, they did, but only by aggressive advertising and adding on features a mechanically inclined person can do for cheaper. The early ones are actually kind of sought after now.

As Paratrooper mentioned, you'll find dealers that really push Kimbers as THE 1911, the reason is Kimber requires them to push them and sell a required amount per year to be a dealer and get the good buying price to make a good profit. Old news on that one.

BUT....... if you spend the money on it and you like it without problems....... you're in the upper 50%..............


----------



## pic

paratrooper said:


> I considered a Kimber years ago. I came very close to buying one. But.....in the back of my mind, I kept going over and over what I had heard from others who owned them and had shot them.
> 
> Of course the sales guy was 100% Kimber, and told me that what I had been hearing, was just hogwash.....his words.....not mine. That was just enough for me to back off the purchase.
> 
> Anyways, that was long ago and to this day, I don't regret not having bought it or not owning a Kimber. I'm more than happy with what I have.


I agree, good common sense.
+1 for paratrooper


----------



## pic

rex said:


> That 50/50 is kind of ironic, an old poll of 1911 failures by brand pretty much summed that up on Kimbers.
> 
> What was said about old Kimbers is true, the first run were great guns until they thought they were going to claim the market. Well, they did, but only by aggressive advertising and adding on features a mechanically inclined person can do for cheaper. The early ones are actually kind of sought after now.
> 
> As Paratrooper mentioned, you'll find dealers that really push Kimbers as THE 1911, the reason is Kimber requires them to push them and sell a required amount per year to be a dealer and get the good buying price to make a good profit. Old news on that one.
> 
> BUT....... if you spend the money on it and you like it without problems....... you're in the upper 50%..............


Your right about the advertising, every other page has a kimber on it, or it seems,lol.


----------



## RadarContact

My buddy is a "1911 guy" and swears by Para. Says the guns are prime and company is even better. I, on the other hand, don't know sh!t about them. 

http://www.para-usa.com/

EDIT: He corrected me today..."new Para".


----------



## grey-wolf

I have both a Pro CDP ll and a Pro Raptor and have never had an issue with either one. Right now im looking at the Master Cary Pro. Until I personally have the so called issues you see everywhere I will continue to buy them.


----------



## just for fun

I've got to be the luckiest guy I know! Kimber Pro Carry, older model, no firing pin safety, internal extractor, zero issues! Ran RIGHT from the start. Number of "break-in" rounds fired- NONE.


----------



## Pat Az

Not a thing is wrong with mine but I do read the directions and follow them.


----------



## BigCityChief

I have noticed that the KimPro finish easily wears on my Super Carry Ultra HD. I returned it to Kimber and was very disappointed a month later with their "fix." I now have one less Kimber.


----------



## cedarhill

I found a used Kimber Pro Carry 11 in 9mm. I have shot about 500 shots with it and it is accurate never a problem.

Then I went out and purchased a new Remington R1 Carry Commander 45. Have only put about 75 shells through it and it was great. After shooting a 45 and then shooting a 9mm, the 9 fells very soft on my grip.
J


----------



## AjayTaylor

The biggest problem with Kimbers is that they say "Kimber" on the slide, and not "Colt".

(Just Kidding) I have a Kimber too, but I like my Colts better. I have only had a few misfires with my Colt, and always with handloads. I'm not sure if it's the slide or what, but I only use factory ammo with my Kimber, and I still get 1 or 2 Jammers in 100 rounds. I can count on one hand the jams that I've had in 1000+ rounds with my Series 70 .45. I don't know why, and otherwise I really like my Kimber, and I bought it brand new. Both of my Series 70's were given to me, and the .45 is the only one that's been fired. Ever since I got the Colts, it's the .45 Colt that I grab now when I'm going out back to shoot. I hate messin' with a jammed up cartridge. I think the Kimber is going on the auction block pretty soon.


----------



## Thateus

Dignan said:


> What's Wrong With Kimbers?


Built to tight to tolerances. But I hear if you ever get one broke in they are fine firearms.
And of course if you like that type of platform/design.
Be prepared though to send perhaps a few thousand down range before she loses up some. Of course if you can afford one than no doubt you can afford to feed it.


----------



## rick9748

CAUTION
I had a tac pro ll that began to stove pipe.Called Kimber,suggested new recoil spring which I did.No help,suggested new mags no help.Returned to Kimber and three weeks later I called.Was told that my frame was cracked and asked what I did to cause the problem.I have been shooting 40+s years and have guns 40 yrs old.I have my first A5 shoots great.I do not abuse my guns.Told Kimber there was no abuse.They said that I was responsible for the problem.The only thing they offered to do was sell me another gun.I asked them "was this their idea of customer service".They said again, that this was all they could do.This is a $1,300.00 gun.Have no gun and less money!Would never consider buying a Kimber.


----------



## rick9748

CAUTION
Had a Kimber Tac Pro ll started failure to feed.Called Kimber and returned gun.Three weeks later I called Kimber and was told the frame was cracked.Then asked how had I abused the gun.We had a discussion;I told them I had been shooting 40+s years and that I did not abuse my guns.Have my dad's Browning A5 and shoot it. I was told the problem was mine but they did offer to sell me anther gun.These guns cost $1,300.00.I chose not to send them another $1,300.00.Now I have no gun and less money.


----------



## rick9748

Did not realize I had made two post.Just really pissed off.


----------



## Vintage Racer

I would never buy a kimber.


----------



## Sierra_Hunter

With Kimber, you are paying for the name. It's like buying oreos. The store brand ones are just as good, but the brand name cost twice as much. I honestly see colt the same way over priced. 

My opinion. The best 1911 on the market for the money would be the Ruger. The next two guns on my list are both rugers, and their 1911 will probably be first.


----------



## pic

rick9748 said:


> CAUTION
> I had a tac pro ll that began to stove pipe.Called Kimber,suggested new recoil spring which I did.No help,suggested new mags no help.Returned to Kimber and three weeks later I called.Was told that my frame was cracked and asked what I did to cause the problem.I have been shooting 40+s years and have guns 40 yrs old.I have my first A5 shoots great.I do not abuse my guns.Told Kimber there was no abuse.They said that I was responsible for the problem.The only thing they offered to do was sell me another gun.I asked them "was this their idea of customer service".They said again, that this was all they could do.This is a $1,300.00 gun.Have no gun and less money!Would never consider buying a Kimber.


Sorry about that, sounds like a "tough luck" response.
Did they offer the replacement Kimber at a substantial discount?
Did the subject of buying just a new frame ever discussed?
Good luck


----------



## paratrooper

Dignan said:


> You'd think,
> 
> But Baer and Wilson also have prescribed break-in periods.
> 
> The worst FTF and break in issues I found in a short search were with a new Baer&#8230;.rounds double feeding and jamming cock-eyed&#8230;
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> Dignan


I buy far more new firearms than I do used. Not once did I attempt to break-in a new one.

Maybe it's just me and I've been very lucky. I prefer Beretta and Sig. Neither one suggests a break-in procedure. They shoot just like they are supposed to, right out of the box.

I don't think I'd have the patience to break-in a new gun. 900 rds. for a Kimber? No way Jose!


----------



## Goldwing

This is starting to resemble a Taurus thread but with a lot less defenders of the Kimbers. If I was given a $1300.00 gift card for a gun shop that would expire soon, I would buy 2 Glocks and lots of ammo.:smt071
GW


----------



## rglassma

With that kind of money to spend in your budget, I would forget the Kimber and get a Dan Wesson Heritage 45.


----------



## shootbrownelk

I have 2 friends that owned Kimbers. One had problems from the get-go with his, FTE, FTF. Sent it back to Kimber after lengthy phone calls to customer service. He got it back almost 2 months later, it did exactly the same thing. He traded it off on a Colt. The other buddy had trigger problems, after fighting with customer service numerous times, to no avail...he got rid of his as well. He bought a Springfield loaded. What I gleaned from their experiences was, Kimber cutomer service and customer relations sucks the big one. And so far, no complaints on either the Colt or the Springfield.


----------



## dakota1911

I think they are overpriced for what you get and you may have issues with the Swartz type mechanical firing pin block that is on them. I had several at one time but am down to one now. It is a Grand Raptor II which was too much back in 2005 when I bought it. The reason I keep it is because it is pretty and the only example of the Kimber external extractor I have in my shooty collection.


----------



## casurvivor

I didn't liked Kimbers, but a friend had two that ran perfect, so I bought a Custom II and other than the finish I'm pretty happy with it, I changed all the ignition parts, but I do that with most 1911s and to GI recoil spring set up.


----------



## Spike12

Well,
1) I believe that ALL pistols need a break-in period, 1911 or not. I won't wear any of them regardless of their performance out of the box until I have a few hundred rounds through them. Why risk it?
2) My readings of Kimbers are they are either perfect or way not perfect. A receint poll on a big Ruger forum I read regularly said Kimber was the most over rated. It think they're way over complicated product offering matrix could be the issue. Too many different combinations to focus on. I think Kimbers have a bunch of gadgets on them that don't make a better gun yet raise the price, except their bobbed grips (see below)
3) I've settled on S&W Series E. I have two, 5" and 4" w/Scandium frame and bobbed grip. They're made way up in Holton Maine and their finish is perfect (more than my Colt or SA could say) and they've run perfectly regardless of ammo except for combloc stuff which I will NOT use (more than my Para could say). The only other pistol I've owned that could say that was my Stoeger Cougar.


----------



## GETCHERGUN

The only real problem with Kimber is they are over priced for the features you get.


----------

