# Opinion Please!



## Don357 (Dec 4, 2007)

My cousin who is a 50ish hanidcapped lady, is interested in a CCW but doesn't have a lot of money to spend. She really likes my wifes Kel-Tec P-11 but feels that $250 to $300 is more than she can afford unless she lay-aways. I suggested a FEG PA-63. Right at $100 now and about the same size, also nearly as powerful. She wouldn't need to worry about an ammo shortage as she doesn't shoot that much, and there is a fair amount of 9x18 Mak around. I also told her that she needs to make sure she can operate the slide and that the gun "fits" her hand. She shoots already and is pretty good with the .38spl Rossi revolver she already has. It has a 4" barrell and is kind of akward for her in her chair. (she says) Any way she wants an ITW holster. So any suggestions and / or opinions are welcome.


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## Jackle1886 (Dec 21, 2007)

I know it's not a semi, but a Smith & Wesson J frame hammerless in .38 special. Plenty of power, no safeties to mess with, no needing to be profficient w/ an auto, just point and shoot. They're super lightweight and slim too.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm thinking revolver also. If she has physical limitations, why bother with things like a manipulating a slide to chamber a round, safeties, magazine changes, and clearing jams? She needs simplicity. An auto is not what she needs. 

Also, I'm a big fan of the saying, "You get what you pay for." Don't think I'd be trusting my life, or the life of a loved one,to a $100 gun. I don't know your financial situation, but maybe you could loan her the money she needs to purchase a decent firearm? 

My $.02.


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## Arkangel (Jan 17, 2008)

I am probably gonna open up a can of worms here but I am going to say she needs to find another way of protecting herself.
Note..I am not saying she does not have the right to carry cause she does and our wonderful constitution guarantees, but when I run all the scenarios through my head as to how I would take down a person in a wheel chair it mostly comes up their own gun could be used against them because of a lack of maneuverability. If she misses the BG is gonna be pissed which means it's his ballgame.

Most of us here have the ability to run to the right or left or go another way instead of one built for handicapped. 

No suggestions but I would look at other ways


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Arkangel said:


> I am probably gonna open up a can of worms here but I am going to say she needs to find another way of protecting herself.
> Note..I am not saying she does not have the right to carry cause she does and our wonderful constitution guarantees, but when I run all the scenarios through my head as to how I would take down a person in a wheel chair it mostly comes up their own gun could be used against them because of a lack of maneuverability. If she misses the BG is gonna be pissed which means it's his ballgame.
> 
> Most of us here have the ability to run to the right or left or go another way instead of one built for handicapped.
> ...


I think you've made an excellent point. :smt023 If she's not lighting fast on the draw, the BG definitely has speed and maneuverability on his side. A few quick, lateral steps, and he's behind her and unfortunately, the game is pretty much over.


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## Landor (Jan 31, 2008)

Well if a gun is still an option I would also recommend a revolver. I am not sure you can pick up a S&W for around $300 but a Taurus M85 is another option. I would also get her some mace. It has a 10 foot range. Blind the bad guy then shoot em..:mrgreen:

Hey, she is in a wheel chair..


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

"she doesn't shoot that much" and "is pretty good with the .38spl Rossi" pretty much equals revolver. There's a lot of good choices for between $300 and $400, and you can expand that even more if you are willing to buy a used weapon. Look around and see if you can find an older Taurus 85 (the old ones are built quite well), or a plain-Jane J-frame such as the ones that Summit Gun Brokers have for about $265.

PhilR.


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## JohnnyFlake (Jan 30, 2008)

There are a few good reasons given as to why a handgun may not be the right choice, however, I still think it's the best choice. You mentioned that she does well with a .38 spl. Rossi, then why not go with one. The following, at about $165 would be a good choice,

Rossi Model 87

Notes: This is a tiny snub-nosed revolver designed specifically for concealed carry. It was introduced in 1983, and exported to almost 70 countries worldwide, acquiring a "Saturday Night Special" reputation as a cheap and easy to hide handgun. Virtually all of the hammer is concealed, and there are almost no protrusions other than a very small front sight. The grips are rubber with finger grooves.

Johnny


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I think the old gal is tired of her wheel gun and wants a slick new auto loader.:smt033

You guys are probably right about the lack of mobility thing but I'm sure it makes her feel secure. If she lives alone I think she actually needs a gun. 911 will be there just in time to clean up and make a report. We got fight or flight.....she ain't going anywere quick so an attempt to fight is all she has. If she has time to get set up at least she has a chance. No gun no chance. Sounds like she knows how to use what she's got so if it were my family I'd scrap together what I could and get her the best gun I could for the money looking hard for a used 9mm or something along those lines. I'd get her to the range a few times too to make sure she knew how to handle it.


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## Arkangel (Jan 17, 2008)

Wondering why all the big dog regulars did not jump in on this post. I always like to see higher level thought???


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## Arkangel (Jan 17, 2008)

gmaske said:


> I think the old gal is tired of her wheel gun and wants a slick new auto loader.:smt033
> 
> You guys are probably right about the lack of mobility thing but I'm sure it makes her feel secure. If she lives alone I think she actually needs a gun. 911 will be there just in time to clean up and make a report. We got fight or flight.....she ain't going anywere quick so an attempt to fight is all she has. If she has time to get set up at least she has a chance. No gun no chance. Sounds like she knows how to use what she's got so if it were my family I'd scrap together what I could and get her the best gun I could for the money looking hard for a used 9mm or something along those lines. I'd get her to the range a few times too to make sure she knew how to handle it.


Studies show that it only takes a few times at the range to turn someone into a killing machine, So I guess you are right. What if drugs have slowed her fight and flight response. What if she has a neurological problem that also effects her upper body. 
What if some of her drugs make her imagine people are beating on her door?
I think that if granny were a game you were playing then you just got here killed and you lost a quarter.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Arkangel said:


> Wondering why all the big dog regulars did not jump in on this post. I always like to see higher level thought???


I think I'm hurt. :smt022


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## teknoid (Mar 12, 2007)

Todd said:


> I'm thinking revolver also. If she has physical limitations, why bother with things like a manipulating a slide to chamber a round, safeties, magazine changes, and clearing jams? She needs simplicity. An auto is not what she needs.
> 
> Also, I'm a big fan of the saying, "You get what you pay for." Don't think I'd be trusting my life, or the life of a loved one,to a $100 gun. I don't know your financial situation, but maybe you could loan her the money she needs to purchase a decent firearm?
> 
> My $.02.


I wouldn't knock the PA-63. It's a pretty good little gun. I've had mine for over a year, and shoot it all the time. It's a truck gun to me, but it's never missed a beat in over 1200 rounds. Inexpensive doesn't always equal "cheap".


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## Arkangel (Jan 17, 2008)

Todd said:


> I think I'm hurt. :smt022


Stop your crying and gimme a hug...Honestly though, I think this is something that I would like to see discussed a bit more.
I just had to take some guns away from my wife's aging parents so it has some interest to me. Both are in the first stages of altzheimers plus they are both on lots of meds.

Not trying to insult, I just want answers from people that have had guns in their life a lot longer than me.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but has she considered a personal alarm? This one is integrated with a cellphone that includes a GPS locator. All she has to do is simply press a button on a pendant that she can carry around her neck and keep the phone in her purse.

http://www.claytoncommunications.com/GPS_products.htm


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Arkangel said:


> Stop your crying and gimme a hug...Honestly though, I think this is something that I would like to see discussed a bit more.
> I just had to take some guns away from my wife's aging parents so it has some interest to me. Both are in the first stages of altzheimers plus they are both on lots of meds.
> 
> Not trying to insult, I just want answers from people that have had guns in their life a lot longer than me.


I am old enough to be the young ladies father so have probably had guns longer than you Ark...

I have stayed out of this one til now because the lead in makes me believe the Lady knows enough about guns to say what she wants. We have to trust Don357 to know if she is on Meds or has a condition preventing her from handling a revolver or pistol effectively. I think she needs to visit a Gun Store and or range with rentals so as to pick her own. From that point it is a matter of finances. We are too remote from her reality to do much more than jabber about her wishes.

Todd, I probably should have stayed out out of this one. 

:smt1099


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I second the motion for a revolver. "Preacherman," a member over on TFL, has pretty extensive experience training the disabled in armed self defense. He recommends 2 1/2" or 3" revolvers in .38 Special or .44 Special for disabled folks. Maybe she can work a trade on the 4" gun for a shorter one?

I do not know why anyone would recommend against a gun for this lady, if she is comfortable using one. A disabled person needs a gun in a fight WAY more than an able-bodied person. A person confined to a wheelchair can't run away, and usually can't win a wrestling/boxing match with a young, agile assailant. The disabled are also more likely to be targeted for crime than the able-bodied. 

Most disabled people can't effectively swing an impact weapon, use unarmed combatives, or engage in a knife fight. The gun truly is the only "equalizer" for such a person, since it's a remote-control weapon that can keep an attacker at a distance. To say this lady shouldn't use a gun is to throw her to the wolves.

If I get blown up by an IED and lose a leg or two, you can bet I'll be rolling with a pair of Glocks when I finish rehab, and I'll be insulted if someone tells me I shouldn't be carrying.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Arkangel said:


> Stop your crying and gimme a hug...Honestly though, I think this is something that I would like to see discussed a bit more.


I feel better already.

Sometimes it's just luck of the draw for responses. I've posted things and only gotten a couple responses and sometimes none at all. A lot of times if people agree with what has been posted already, they won't chime in unless they have something else to add. IMO, it's better than getting a bunch of "+1" responses with nothing following. Also it's better to get a few good responses than some mall ninja response that's going to say put spikes on her tires, trick out the wheelchair to do 100 mph, mount MP5's on the sides, and cap and wax anyone that gets in her way. :smt171:smt171


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> If I get blown up by an IED and lose a leg or two, you can bet I'll be rolling with a pair of Glocks when I finish rehab, and I'll be insulted if someone tells me I shouldn't be carrying.


A hollowed out leg would be a great place to CCW. You should suggest to Galco that they should branch out into the prosthetic market. :smt023


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Todd said:


> A hollowed out leg would be a great place to CCW. You should suggest to Galco that they should branch out into the prosthetic market. :smt023


Didn't I see that in _Robocop_? Or was it _Battlestar Galactica_? :mrgreen:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Didn't I see that in _Robocop_? Or was it _Battlestar Galactica_? :mrgreen:


Probably both and then some. I bet they did it at least once in the A-Team. :smt033


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

Two of Cooper's Seven Principles of Personal Defense are Speed and Surprise. A person in a wheelchair may lack speed (and agility/mobility), but they more than make up for it with surprise. The kind of low-life who would attack a person in a chair does so because he expects no resistance. If the intended victim counter-attacks, they will almost certainly win. Even if the shooter has a three-second draw, during those three seconds, the attacker will not be expecting a gun to come out.

If a person is not a dedicated hobbyist, and is already pretty good with a 4" revolver, then the obvious choice is to trade it in on a 2" revolver. For best bargain, I recommend the Taurus 85. My preference is for the 85CH (Concealed Hammer).


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

In the course of my work at Galco, I have talked to several wheelchair users who had some rather novel concealment methods. Some of the methods would be pretty fast, too.


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## Arkangel (Jan 17, 2008)

Todd said:


> A hollowed out leg would be a great place to CCW. You should suggest to Galco that they should branch out into the prosthetic market. :smt023












Great Tarrantino movie by the way.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Arkangel said:


> Great Tarrantino movie by the way.


That's a little beyond CCW. Some might call that open carry. :smt033


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