# 1911 accuracy



## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

I've been reading from more than one source that the 45 ACP caliber is maybe the most accurate load of all.

That is, a good 1911 in that caliber , you're apt to do the best groupings you can. Good 1911 means US$ 2000 upward to me.

Can you guys confirm that?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

It isn't the cartridge, nor is it the gun. It's the combination of cartridge, gun, and shooter.
In the hands of the run-of-the-mill shooter, and certainly in the hands of a new shooter, the general run of un-accurized, .45 ACP 1911s, .38 Special revolvers, and 9mm semi-autos will put bullets close enough to where they need to be at any distance out to 15 or 20 yards.
Shooting past 25 yards, and certainly out to 50 yards, will require a well-prepared and accurized pistol, if the user wants to make well-placed _center_ hits on bullseye targets. However, this can be done with "ordinary," right-out-of-the-box, .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm cartridges. Of course, it also requires an experienced shooter with a steady hand and excellent technique.
The .45 ACP cartridge is not much more inherently accurate, all by itself, than is the .38 Special, the .22 Long Rifle, and maybe even the 9mm Parabellum. All of those will make good center hits at 50 yards, given a well-prepared gun and an experienced shooter.
That being said, the .45 ACP and the .38 Special, if _very_ carefully manufactured or reloaded, and shot out of _very_ well prepared pistols in the hands of _very_ experienced target shooters, do have some amount of ballistic edge over other .45 and .38 cartridges, and the 9mm.


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## Stoo (Mar 16, 2008)

The most accurate hand gun that I myself own is my Ruger 6 inch GP100 .357MAG. If you look at a trajectory chart the 357 hits +0.1 at 100 yds where the .45 has almost 7 inches of drop.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Stoo said:


> The most accurate hand gun that I myself own is my Ruger 6 inch GP100 .357MAG. If you look at a trajectory chart the 357 hits +0.1 at 100 yds where the .45 has almost 7 inches of drop.


Trajectory, specifically bullet drop, and inherent accuracy are not opposites. Even the fabled "rolling pumpkin" bullet of the .45-70-405, with a trajectory that looks like the cables of a suspension bridge, is capable of amazingly small groups at 500 yards...when shot from a properly prepared rifle in the hands of an expert shot.
Flat trajectory is not a guarantor of accuracy either. Some high-velocity cartridges, with trajectories flat as a stretched string, can't hold a three-inch group at 50 yards from most rifles.
The best measurement of rifle or pistol accuracy is group size. The best way to measure group size is to shoot off of a stable machine rest, which eliminates the variables of your own muscle quiver, trigger control and flinch if any, and the way your eyes see the target.
Tell me how small a five-shot group your .357 Magnum will make, and at what distance. Its trajectory is not useful accuracy information, since your pistol's sights can be set to compensate for that.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks steve for your insight, 
right now I'm seeing my groupings have dramatically improved so I was considering to switch caliber to pursue extra high accuracy (I'm sorry, everyone has got his/her fixations).

Now you tell me there isn't much difference between 45 ACP and 38 special though, so I'll go on until I can be really good with my 38 sp and then decide. Really good to me means a single, smallish tattered hole at 15 yards, a few inches grouping at 30, no or very few flyers.

One of those 6" slick-looking 1911 from STI or SVI would be great. Pretty expensive though. Accuracy doesn't come cheap evidently.

A benefit of the 45 ACP to me is that you can reload the same caliber for revolver (IDPA contests) and semiautos (hi-accuracy on targets) but probably then you wouldn't have the time to do everything.

Time will say, now I'm going to go on with 38 specials, accurate, cheap and easy to reload.


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## Stoo (Mar 16, 2008)

Your right Steve The capabilities or the weapon combined with the capabilities of the shooter determine accuracy. Still for me my GP100 is more accurate than my full size 1911. I love em both but just shoot better with the wheel gun.


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## bearpugh (Jan 27, 2007)

i've got a norinco that will shoot 1" at 20 yds off a rest, so you don't need to spend 2000.00


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## mikecu (May 22, 2009)

I don't think that they are more accurate. They just make a bigger hole in the target.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

mikecu said:


> I don't think that they are more accurate. They just make a bigger hole in the target.


Huh?
Joke? (If it is, it needs a "smiley.")
Groups of hits are measured center-to-center, which eliminates hole size as a factor.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Simple, inexpensive 1911's are built with a bit of "slop" in the slide-to-frame fit, and the barrell-to-bushing fit. Custom 1911's are custom fit, so much more accurate.

That said, 1911's have a bushing lock-up to the slide, and are more consistant than many modern designs with no bushing. A "fitted" 1911 is an excellent choice for accuracy. Some production 1911s are very accurate, if they get a "lucky" fit. Some are LESS accurate than a decent shooting Glock.

In general, the 1911 design is capable of greater accuracy, when tuned well. The trade-off??? The 'tighter" the gun is, the "pickier" th gun is with ammo, and cleaning, and reliability. A "sloppy" gun, is a reliable gun... Glocks are notoriously reliable... and notoriously sloppy.

Revolvers have a more consistant sight-to-barrel allignment, since the sights are mounted ON the barrel, not the slide. Assuming the cylinder/barrel allignment is good, revolvers are theoretically, the MOST accurate gun design.

Jeff


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

JeffWard said:


> ...Assuming the cylinder/barrel allignment is good, revolvers are theoretically, the MOST accurate gun design.
> Jeff


Um, I beg to differ.
The single-shot pistol is the most capable of being the most accurate.
Further, a really well-set-up semi-auto will be more accurate than any revolver, due to the revolver's built-in inconsistency of chamber-to-barrel alignment and its cylinder-to-barrel gap.
Proof: Which ones are used in Olympic competition?


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

JeffWard said:


> Simple, inexpensive 1911's are built with a bit of "slop" in the slide-to-frame fit, and the barrell-to-bushing fit. Custom 1911's are custom fit, so much more accurate.
> 
> That said, 1911's have a bushing lock-up to the slide, and are more consistant than many modern designs with no bushing. A "fitted" 1911 is an excellent choice for accuracy. Some production 1911s are very accurate, if they get a "lucky" fit. Some are LESS accurate than a decent shooting Glock.
> 
> ...


+1 on the 1911 points. A target 1911 will be really tight and will be really picky many times as to what they want to eat and how long. the 1911's that make better carry weapons will have a little slop in the action to maintain feeding and cycling. There is a happy medium between the high end super tight target and the really sloppy GI 1911's out there. Many times with a little work most middle shelf 1911's like the Springer Mil-Spec and the like will shoot groups that are more than expectable at 25 yards. AS Jeff's post said a Glock's reliability comes from the loose fitting of parts. You can shake a Glock and hear it rattle. Same with low to middle shelf 1911's. Ask a Glock guy and they will with beaming pride tell you how accurate it is and they are pretty darn accurate. But they are pretty loose.

If a 1911 is being bought for carry the 2000 and up weapons are not what I'd want on my hip. I'll give up an inch on the group at 25 yards to know that it's going to fire more than the round in the chamber when it first comes out of the holster.

I'm pretty much with Jeff on the wheel gun as well. Like Steve brings up a single shot will be really accurate but they both have the fixed barrel I can't really see too much a difference in accuracy unless you are going for some normally out of pistol range distances. The single shot will not lose pressure like the revolver being the pressure has nowhere to go except down the barrel. The Revolver will let some pressure at the forcing cone so that would be the main difference of the two. Same reason many bolt action rifles can out shoot many semi auto rifles.


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