# Joined the M&P crowd



## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Over the past few months I've collected some M&P's. Wanted to wait until I got to the range for a once through with them before posting about it. May post pics later when I get a chance. Short version I like them. I have a full size 45, 40 and 9mm and the compact 9mm. They are without the mag disconnect or any manual safety's as is my preference. Handling, ergonomics and quality all seem first rate. They don't quite wow me but very predictable in form, fit and function which is all good.

At the range I put at least 50 rounds through each unit (mix of FMJ and various hollow points) and only had one bobble on the 9c with what looked like an attempted double feed. Cleared it and did not repeat. More rounds through it will prove if it was an anomoly or not. Shots at 25 yards were fairly tight but right and a bit low. Sights could be a touch off but more than likely thats my lefty trigger finger pulling my shots a tad as I get used to the trigger. Again time on the range will tell.

Trigger is not bad. I had heard alot of chatter about the triggers not being very good or consistent but all 4 of mine are very managable and seem easy to adapt to. I admit the full size 9 and 40 had the better triggers out of the box. The .45 is the grittiest and strongest. My plan is to leave them all stock and let them smooth out naturally.

Pro's:
- Good weight and balance
- Nice 3 dot sight picture on low profile dove tailed metal sights
- Natural POA pointer
- Reasonably soft shooter for polymer (found the 40 to be particularily soft)
- Reliable. Ate everything I fed them except that one bobble.
- Shape and contours well thought out and dehorned
- Mag release button nicely shaped and protected to prevent inadvertant mag dumps
- Excellent fit and finish
- I like the stock steel guide rod instead of plastic. Never been an issue but I like it steel.
- Interchangeable back straps a nice touch (have the small on the 45 and med on the others)
- Reasonably thin slide and frame with rounded angles and low profile yet usable controls (big plus for carry)
- Ambi slide release
- On the 9c I really like the pinky finger extension. Smart design that works well, doesn't pinch and due to it's design does not add much meaningful length to the grip considering concealment.

Con's (mostly minor personal preference nit picks):
- Long grip on the full size. Granted that's 17 and 15 capacity in 9 & 40 but still it is long.
- Not a fan of the internal dingus below the ejector that must be pivoted down to take the slide off but if it never binds or breaks it is not a real problem. Otherwise take down is very sig like which is good.
- Magazine base plates are large. Mates up nicely with grip but for spare mag carry I may be cutting and reshaping a few spares.
- Not a fan of the grip tang on the full size models as it serves no purpose and detracts from the asthetics while adding to overall length. Theoretically possible it could prevent slide bite for the largest of paws but that seems unlikely given the design. Nit pick.

I had been wanting to get back into striker fired handguns for a while and these seem to fit the bill nicely. For grins since that one 9c bobble at the range was bothering me a little I tried an experiment on the full size 45 since I had some empty shell casings. I loaded a couple in a mag and chambered and ejected them without a hitch. Perhaps it means nothing but I found that rather telling on the models versatility with various types of hollow points. If it will feed an empty casing as easy as an in spec round nose FMJ I am confident it will not be ammo sensitive.

I've been packing the FS9 and 9c around for a bit and found a couple methods that work well for me. I have what is called a Zack holster which is little more than a kydex mini holster that snaps onto the trigger guard with a lanyard loop to thread your belt through. Draw the pistol and the trigger guard holster pops off. Packing the full size 9 in this manner I find it is comfortable and by keeping the weapon in tight at my side greatly aids in hiding that long grip under an over shirt, sweater, etc. A $14.00 replacement idea for my belly band holsters and it worked. The compact 9c works well either appendix style in my Kramer leather or a conventional IWB Fist #k3 originally sized for a G19. To be honest I am liking this Zack setup so well I have only packed the compact a couple of times.

Anyway that is my not so short review. Perhaps it will be helpful to someone else contemplating these models which is the point of my ramblings. Going forward the Compact .45 might find it's way into the line up if these continue to perform well. A good value I think.


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## samurai (Jul 8, 2010)

Good crowd to be in-9fs,9c,45fs and45c- like them all. I might give the "Zack" a try.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Nice report Tuefelhunden,
Your experience is paralleling mine although I started with M&P's 4 or so years back.
I have carried and shot the 9, 40 and 45 Full size for extended periods. I added a 45C last year and believe you will find it to be an excellent choice also. it has become my favorite to carry although the full size 45 is my favorite range/bedside gun.

If the slight grittiness bothers you, Apex Tactical has an excellent solution in their drop in sear and safety plunger parts. They make a night vrs. day type difference.

I am getting old and shaky plus I can't see very well but the 45 full size with Apex trigger parts allows me to shoot 3/8 inch and on rare occasion true single hole groups at 15 yards from sand bags.

The 45C with stock sear and safety plunger (polished) will not perform in my hands quite as well but will consistantly produce 1" groups and conceals significantly better.

Play with your current stable for a while but don't forget to obtain a 45C.

Enjoy.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks guys for the feedback and good advice. I did a fair amount of research (including most if not all of your writting on the subject TOF) before buying. I am still so new to the platform that I'm glad to get all the info. I can get.

I've heard nothing but praise for the Apex kits and you got me thinking now with the performance you are getting out of them. I know the trigger plays a big factor in my group sizes as well and it really showed my first outing at the 25 yard line. On paper but a pretty loose pattern and far right. The triggers on all but the 45 really seem pretty decent. Perhaps an Apex kit for the 45 would be a great test run before comitting to doing them all. I agree the 45c seems the perfect carry size set up.

T


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Tuefelhunden said:


> Thanks guys for the feedback and good advice. I did a fair amount of research (including most if not all of your writting on the subject TOF) before buying. I am still so new to the platform that I'm glad to get all the info. I can get.
> 
> I've heard nothing but praise for the Apex kits and you got me thinking now with the performance you are getting out of them. I know the trigger plays a big factor in my group sizes as well and it really showed my first outing at the 25 yard line. On paper but a pretty loose pattern and far right. The triggers on all but the 45 really seem pretty decent. Perhaps an Apex kit for the 45 would be a great test run before comitting to doing them all. I agree the 45c seems the perfect carry size set up.
> 
> T


If you haven't already done so be certain to try the different grip inserts. They can cause you to shift POI left to right, especialy if shooting fast such as in IPSC matches.

Be prepared because once you install an Apex kit in the 45 you will have to have it in all of them.

Have fun what ever you do.

PS: I don't know what accuracy to expect with factory ammo because I only use my own loads which I tuned to the M&P's. Also, the 45's are significantly less load sensitive than 9 or 40 in the M&P platform.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks TOF. Very good idea to experiment with the back straps and I will try that. I may try a couple hundred more down the pipe of the 45 and perhaps some snap cap dry firing to see I can improve it but that would be the one to start on with an Apex.

Not to pester you with questions but did you per chance have any mag rattles with any of yours? I have an annoying rattle when loaded up in both my 40 mags. Doesn't seem to matter how many rounds or inserted or not. Can't tell if it is the rounds shifting around or the plunger but they both do it consistently. None of the other calibers and magazines are doing it. Just a strange curiousity.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Tuefelhunden said:


> Thanks TOF. Very good idea to experiment with the back straps and I will try that. I may try a couple hundred more down the pipe of the 45 and perhaps some snap cap dry firing to see I can improve it but that would be the one to start on with an Apex.
> 
> Not to pester you with questions but did you per chance have any mag rattles with any of yours? I have an annoying rattle when loaded up in both my 40 mags. Doesn't seem to matter how many rounds or inserted or not. Can't tell if it is the rounds shifting around or the plunger but they both do it consistently. None of the other calibers and magazines are doing it. Just a strange curiousity.


You are quite welcome Mr. T.
I am more than happy to answer whatever questions you may have.
I don't remember hearing rattles but they may well have. I have never consciously tried shaking any of them. I probably should not have done so but swapped my 40 for a 45 Full Size so can't test it anymore. The 45 is kinder to my arthritic wrists which prompted the swap. I am quite certain I would have needed to shake them to generate rattles. They never talked to me from the holster. I just tested the 45's, 8 10 and 14, they do not rattle when fully loaded.

Any of them might rattle with a partial load. I would expect the spring to slap the sides under sharp raps.

FWIW: My 40 preferred 165 Grain Bullets.

My 45c, purchased new, had what appeared to be a soft safety plunger. It may have inadvertantly missed the hardening process. I didn't bother Smith with it as I had one all polished up and waiting for a home. If the crunchy action doesn't cease fairly soon remove it and look at the area the striker is blocked by. Mine had a number of indentations from the striker hitting it which is why I think it was not tempered. If yours looks bad Smith will replace it but I would put in an Apex unit.

Lightly stoning and polishing the trigger bar especialy the safety activation point will take care of any crunchy bumps on it.

Enyoy

TOF


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

This is a great crowd to be in. I joined in 2006.


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## clockworkjon (Dec 2, 2010)

I am also on the verge of joining the crowd. I'm just waiting for the M&P 9 Carry and Range kit to be in stock somewhere, anywhere. Bud's had the .40 in stock for a while yesterday before selling out, but I didn't really want to get it and have to pay 25% more for ammo. Must have patience.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks so much TOF. It is a pretty pronounced rattle so yours didn't have it fortunately. I'll eventually buy additional spares and if they don't rattle will compare the two to try and determine the difference. They feed 100% and that's the important thing. Thanks again for your help and the excellent trigger information. I will put it to good use.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

I expect you have disassembled them by now but if not you might do so and look things over closely. I am not certain how much room there is around the spring but you might try temporarily inserting a piece of paper, as heavy as will fit, around the spring then shaking to determine if it is the spring hitting the sleeve. You of course would not be able to insert cartridges but it might help isolate the noise source.

I can't envision them rattling for any other reason but would expect it to stop when fully loaded.

I have a vague memory of rattle discussion on M&P Forum that would have occurred 2 or 3 years back. My memory is not as good as it once was and I can't recall details.

I will see what I can find out there.

PS:

Here are some links for you. I should have remembered as I posted on a couple of them. The problem is apparently related to some 40 cal mags but not all.

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=27599&hl=rattle

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=22394&hl=rattle

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=24218&hl=rattle


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks again TOF. Good info and links confirming that this is a fairly common occurance on the 40's. Sounds like rounds shifting around on mine but it certainly could be the spring. I suspect that given the dual purpose role of the 40/357 sig mags that the tolerances may be a touch more generous than on the caliber specific 9 and 45 mags. I'll give it a good inspection and the paper trick and see what I can determine. They work fine so I doubt pestering S&W would get me any results or really be necessary.

I'm sporting the FS9 today IWB in my Zack holster. Can hardly tell it's even there. Gotta love that in a full size full capacity side arm. Great stuff.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Actualy, pestering S&W might yield a couple of extra magazines. They have been very very good regarding warranty coverage of M&P's.

I just contacted them regarding a couple of 14 round 45 magazine springs which had a soft spot causing one loop to collapse. They are mailing some new ones to me.

the defect causes the follower and top 3 coils to tip forward relative to the main spring body when out of the tube. It is possible a similar defective springs could be your problem.

I would give them a call and see if there is a known fix.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

TOF said:


> Actualy, pestering S&W might yield a couple of extra magazines. They have been very very good regarding warranty coverage of M&P's.
> 
> I just contacted them regarding a couple of 14 round 45 magazine springs which had a soft spot causing one loop to collapse. They are mailing some new ones to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks TOF. That makes good sense and may be worth a try. Upon inspection I can find nothing physically wrong with either. I've decided it does bother me. I'm anal what can I say.


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## samadams (Dec 26, 2008)

Tuefelhunden said:


> Over the past few months I've collected some M&P's. Wanted to wait until I got to the range for a once through with them before posting about it. May post pics later when I get a chance. Short version I like them. I have a full size 45, 40 and 9mm and the compact 9mm. They are without the mag disconnect or any manual safety's as is my preference. Handling, ergonomics and quality all seem first rate. They don't quite wow me but very predictable in form, fit and function which is all good.
> 
> At the range I put at least 50 rounds through each unit (mix of FMJ and various hollow points) and only had one bobble on the 9c with what looked like an attempted double feed. Cleared it and did not repeat. More rounds through it will prove if it was an anomoly or not. Shots at 25 yards were fairly tight but right and a bit low. Sights could be a touch off but more than likely thats my lefty trigger finger pulling my shots a tad as I get used to the trigger. Again time on the range will tell.
> 
> ...


I agree, the M&P's are sweet guns. I own the full size and the compact 9mm. The compact shoots just as good as the full size, even without the pinky rest. For concealed carry I recommend the compact. It loses nothing to the and is way easier to hide. The grip on the full size is pretty big and the beavertail adds length. The full size makes a great home defense or range gun IMO.


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## Skunk Pilot (Mar 12, 2009)

*Future M&P Owner*

My local gun shop and range had a bunch of gun reps 2 weekends ago and I shot the M&P9 Full Size and the M&P9C. They both fell better in my hand than my XDM9. When I bought the XDM I did some (well a lot really) research but I never knew that the M&P had interchangeable backstraps, if I would of known that I would of shot them for sure. Really have no idea how I missed that.

Just posted my XDM9 for sale and want a M&P9 (L or Pro) shortly. Night before I looked at my purchase permit to take with me and I could of sworn I had another month left, so I couldn't get a M&P at the store with the best deals of the year with the manufacturers representative there. I *really like* the XDM though, it's just that *I like the M&P much better* and they're made in the USA. Also I've read good things about their customer service, and parts should be easier to get at all times. I buy enough foreign stuff and have been wanting to buy more American made stuff, if possible.

I actually shot the M&P9c better than the full size, but that's probably because the full size one had a Viridian green laser (wow just looked it up to get the correct spelling and Viridian is within 10 miles of me) on it that wasn't dialed in and still tried to use it. I didn't change the backstraps on the rep guns so maybe they would of fit just a little bit better.

I would _*highly recommend*_ anyone who is considering one to go rent one or I'd post in forums that have a State and/or local section where people close to you might let you shoot it. Can't hurt to ask if someone is going to the range in 1-2 weeks or so in your area, might have to post to 3-5 forums though. I know I'd let you shoot mine for free if I had one, or any gun I owned if I saw a post asking and I was planning on going to the range, if I wasn't and they offered to pay for my range fees then I'd be all over it for sure. Just make sure to say you'll bring your own ammo (a given but say it nonetheless) or buy some there and offer to pay for a couple targets and let them shoot one of your guns.

I've been doing research here and there on numerous forums on the M&P line and am definitely sold. After shooting a few weeks ago I knew I had to sell my XDM9 and get a M&P9.

I just found the M&P9L for $500 with SH so once I do a little research on that site that's what I want to go with. Then eventually I want to put in Apex parts, leaning towards there soon to be released Forward Set Sear that comes with their sear, a new striker block and the new Aluminum trigger. Just could never get myself to spend extra money on customizing my Glock 23C or my XDM, but the M&P I wouldn't hesitate. I'd rather get a used one locally (FTF) but the chances are very slim. I finally got my purchase permit renewal letter, so once I pick it up I'm good to go.


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## XRacer (May 4, 2011)

TOF said:


> Actualy, pestering S&W might yield a couple of extra magazines. They have been very very good regarding warranty coverage of M&P's.
> 
> I just contacted them regarding a couple of 14 round 45 magazine springs which had a soft spot causing one loop to collapse. They are mailing some new ones to me.
> 
> ...


I Just picked up a Full Size M&P 45 yesterday and found that one of the mags would only accept 9 rounds instead of 10 and both seemed to have that soft spot causing the folower and spring to tip foreward. Three questions, can you buy replacement springs for resonably little money? Smith will replace the magazines without you sending the old ones in? How much are the 14 round mags for the full size 45 and will they fit one that came with 10 rounders?


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

XRacer said:


> I Just picked up a Full Size M&P 45 yesterday and found that one of the mags would only accept 9 rounds instead of 10 and both seemed to have that soft spot causing the folower and spring to tip foreward. Three questions, can you buy replacement springs for resonably little money? Smith will replace the magazines without you sending the old ones in? How much are the 14 round mags for the full size 45 and will they fit one that came with 10 rounders?


Call S&W Customer service. Their prices are the best. Free. They will send you springs, not new Mags.
If you choose to obtain spares they are available for very little expense.

Load the tight Mag 1 down for a while.

14's are available but can be hard to find. Prices vary and yes they work in all M&P 45's including the compact. They have ugly sleeves that can be removed should you wish to do so. I did cause they are ugly.

tumbleweed


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## XRacer (May 4, 2011)

TOF said:


> Call S&W Customer service. Their prices are the best. Free. They will send you springs, not new Mags.
> If you choose to obtain spares they are available for very little expense.
> 
> Load the tight Mag 1 down for a while.
> ...


 Thanks, I'll have to call today to get the wheels in motion, can't have springs that might fail at some point. Gun seems to shoot well though I didn't have it at the range, just a sand filled bucket at my parents. Thanks again.

X


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## XRacer (May 4, 2011)

Does the Apex Tactical reduce trigger pull at all?


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

XRacer said:


> Does the Apex Tactical reduce trigger pull at all?


Yes


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## timeout (Jun 23, 2011)

Tomorrow, My M&P comes tomorrow, I'll be an expert by next Wednesday! LOL, JK on that last part. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions. Mike


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## XRacer (May 4, 2011)

Got my magazine spring the other day, very good service, thanks Smith & Wesson. Spring appears to be a good one.


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