# Grip Angle and POI vs POA



## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

I had a chance to put a ton of rounds through a G17 yesterday. I found that I shoot lower than the owner of the gun without touching the sights. Right left was fine. I figured it was just me.(May still be) I was watching a Hickok45 video on YouTube today and he was comparing an XD to a Glock. The XD's both shot high for him relative to the Glocks. Could just be set up. But does the grip angle differences between different guns take you out of your "natural" grip and drive different people into different guns to shoot them well?

After "running and gunning" with a Glock all day. I am now sold on the controls and weight of the gun. Thinking I need G34 for Christmas. But am I heading into danger?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I've shot handguns that seemed to shoot better (more accurate) than others. But, that's not to say that they were. You can take a very high quality handgun and hand it to a novice shooter and expect so so results. You can also take a poor quality handgun, and hand it to a very experienced shooter and expect very good results.

For me, grip angle plays a very small part in how well I can shoot a handgun. Accuracy pretty much boils down to the shooter and his/her abilities. A good shooter can adapt to the gun in hand and do well in a matter of a handful of rounds sent downrange.

*"It's not the gun in hand that determines accuracy, but rather, the hand on the gun". * :smt002


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Different guns will fit different people differently. Even the sights will matter. Sights are set up for different "holds"










Get the Glock.

Even if the grip angle is different, it can be learned. Grip angle and difference in bore axis can mess with you initially but after a while it's just an excuse for those that don't want to learn, can't shoot or won't seek instruction on how to properly run the gun.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

paratrooper said:


> (snip)
> 
> For me, grip angle plays a very small part in how well I can shoot a handgun. Accuracy pretty much boils down to the shooter and his/her abilities. A good shooter can adapt to the gun in hand and do well in a matter of a handful of rounds sent downrange.





VAMarine said:


> (snip)
> 
> Even if the grip angle is different, it can be learned. Grip angle and difference in bore axis can mess with you initially but after a while it's just an excuse for those that don't want to learn, can't shoot or won't seek instruction on how to properly run the gun.


The above quotes pretty much cover my opinion, too.

I didn't like the Glock grip angle when I first handled/shot the G17, but I later figured out that the low bore line (in relation to the hand/arm) is a _function_ of the grip angle; it's what allows the barrel/slide to sit so low in the frame compared to the top of the web of your hand. If you want the reduced muzzle flip and quicker recoil recovery that comes with it, you should adapt to (and embrace?) the Glock grip angle.

The grip angle, by itself, should not affect where the bullets are hitting, assuming the sights were aligned properly and the alignment was held throughout the trigger pull. Most new-to-Glock shooters tend to "stage" the trigger; they squeeze until they feel a little addition resistance, and they think it's almost ready to fire, so they slap/jerk/tug at the end of the trigger manipulation (the most important part), the gun predictably moves downward, and they end up with a low shot (or a whole bunch of them). Stabilize the Glock (hold it tight), and squeeze straight through the trigger, without adding extra pressure which will slam the trigger into the frame and move the sights, and you'll get good/excellent results.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have owned Glocks since the mid-90's but sold the two I had then and it wasn't until March 2007 that I returned to the Glock fold. Last month, I bought a new gen4 G22 and the grip feel, texture and small changes to its shape, fits me to a 'T'. I also have a gen3 G17. My primary carry gun is one of my gen3 G23's, but I would not hesitate one bit to carry my new G22 as it is an excellent handling gun.

Grip angle is important in that it affects how the gun sits in your hand, whether or not it comes up naturally or you have to make minute adjustments every time you pick it up or draw it from your holster, and how comfortable it is. All of this and more can easily affect the practical accuracy of the gun (practical accuracy = gun/shooter combination). One of the best feeling guns out there today is the M&P series in their 4.25" barrel lengths. These are truly fine handling and shooting guns and are quite accurate.

As for POA vs POI, my preference is POI. The one thing that Glock seriously misses on is their standard factory sights. All of my carry Glocks have received after market sights and I shoot them much better with this simple change. My preference here is the Trijicon night sight #GL01. It's a low profile, snag free, steel sight system with just the right amount of light escaping around the front post to the rear notch. This makes getting a traditional sight picture pretty easy.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I think the grip angle itself plays little in POI and a little in POA.What influences those more is the grip angle compared to the trigger's angle of movement,especially DA.

You can pick up a gun and it naturally point it where you want,pulling the trigger in an odd arc in relation to your grip can throw you off.

Conversely,you can have a grip angle that just feels weird (like a Luger,Ruger MK,Olympic style pistols) but the trigger is in a direct relation to that exagerated angle,so you can hit where you want.

Ideally you want the trigger finger to pull directly perpendicular to your palm in a grip,but it doesn't always work out that way so you have to adapt.

Now throw recoil in the mix and things really change.A 1911 and an HK USP are very similar to me in pointability and basic grip geometry,but that soft recoiling HK hits lower for me than a 1911-quite a bit,not because it's a difference in sight picture.I have to loosen my grip on it to an uncomfortable level to hit as intended so sight adjustment is required .I have a specific grip pressure I use on similar size/caliber guns so they need adjusted to my preference.Then again,no 2 identical guns are guarrantied to be built identical (the majority anyway) so there's no guarranty you will shoot them both to the same POA/POI.


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