# Hello from Upstate NY



## Helderberg (Nov 17, 2012)

I wanted to as a question about the H&K pistol's. I have been around and owned handguns for over 35 years and I am just now lusting
after the high end. I have been using Ruger's S&W M&P's, Kahr, Sig and both Auto's and some revolvers. My question is of all the guns 
I have handled I was very surprised with the DA pull of a H&K as it was very heavy and long. The question is, is this a design philosophy
of the company or did I just find a model that this is common in. The SA pull was lighter but still not what I expected from an upper level
gun. I like the feel and the quality is top notch but the trigger felt like about 14 or 15 lbs. Any input would be appreciated.
Be safe, Frank.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Welcome to the forum, Frank! My theory as to those triggers is because it's used as a military and police weapon. I've had a few in the past and they are excellent pistols but I also couldn't get along with the heavy trigger pulls.


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## Helderberg (Nov 17, 2012)

Thank you Charlie, I thought I was holding a Mass. gun. We get them here once in a while as Mass. is right around the corner from here and 
some customers will shop in my local GS. 
Thanks again, Frank.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Welcome.What model are you looking at?Some models are better than others on the triggers,and some are a little more workable.

I have a USP45 Tactical,I got it because I couldn't justify buying the Match trigger and possibly a threaded barrel down the road.The DA is long and heavy,but not any worse than some others to me.The SA is almost as good as a nice 1911 trigger,and probably will be once it's smoothed out.According to the HK guys,they really smooth out between 500-1000 rounds.The reset can be long on some,but Bruce Grey can reduce it by about 50%.I believe the P30s are longer than the USP/HK45 and there isn't much you can do to it.The HK45 uses some of the USP Match springs,so it's supposedly better than stock USPs.There's also the LEM trigger that works similar to Glock,M&P,etc,and the light version is down about 4.5lbs.There are 3 standard variations and a few variations by mixing springs around.They are quite a modular gun,if you can take the gun apart you can install the trigger setup you'd prefer,there's no need for a gunsmith like a 1911 that requires precise fitting.If you're looking at a used USP,buy one from '05 to present,they upgraded the firing pin safety and the catch became a 2 piece setup which reduced some of the reset.

Go to HKPRO.COM forums,good place.There are some hardcore HK guys there and some ex HK employees,you can find out anything you need to know there.


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## Helderberg (Nov 17, 2012)

The biggest problem I have here, I live near Albany, is we do not have any H&K dealers near here. I will only consider buying most anything after handling it first.
The one model I found was a .40 cal and I am not sure what mod. it was. While I like and enjoy M&P handguns, the sales person was only interested in talking
about a M&P .40. I got very little from him about the H&K and had only the one gun in stock. I have since bought a Sig P226 and really like the feel and trigger on
the gun but I would still like to also add a H&K to my small group if only I could find one with, for lack of a proper phrase, a better trigger.
Thanks for your response and I am sorry about not having better information on my end, Frank.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

No problem,it takes a little study to understand HK.The USP has 8 or 9 variations to the trigger from the factory that include lt and rt hand variations,LEM and single action only,plus variations of LEM on top of that.The P series runs different variant numbers from the USP,and I don't believe the HK45 has as many as the USP,but it's basically an upgraded USP.It can get confusing.Date of manufacture is easy,it's 2 letters stamped on the slide,A=0,B=1,C=2,except J is omitted.The DE is the code for the country Germany so it'll be the other 2 letters.Since the HK45s are made here,I don't know how they're marked.I bought mine 2 years ago and it was newly made,BA for '10.

Enjoy the Sig,good piece.I never took to them but they are a good choice.I was raised just down the road from you in Red HookBeautiful country but I didn't like the fact NYC was moving in and I was already tired of the cold when I was 18.It's a real mess there now.


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## Helderberg (Nov 17, 2012)

Could not agree with you more about the beautiful country, the influx of NYC and the cold. That is the reason my wife and I bought a home in N.C. and will be moving 
in a little under two years. Thanks for the great info on the H&K line. I am trying neighboring states for H&K dealers with hopes of finding a sampling of the line.
Be safe, Frank.


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## spaceba (Apr 4, 2013)

Rex is right on the money regarding the H&K line I have mix of pistols and gravitate towards Glocks for 
certain reasons however I love H&K with a p2000 , USP C and last and most favored P2000 SK in my barn.


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## shift1 (Dec 31, 2013)

I have had 4 Hk pistols in the past 20 years. All variant 1 and in 40sw 45acp and 9mm which I have now. All the triggers for me got smoother after 500 rounds I would say. I also had many sigs and just recently I fell off their band wagon with problems on FTF and FTE on a 229 elite. I will say at this time I see no real difference in the triggers on a sig or a hk? I think my hk is the better gun.At least it runs when I want it to! Unlike the SIG??


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## shift1 (Dec 31, 2013)

Spaceba is right......when you want a gun to save your ass it will not be a SIG! It will be a glock!! Try dropping your sig in a mud puddle and see what happens??


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Helderberg said:


> I wanted to as a question about the H&K pistol's. I have been around and owned handguns for over 35 years and I am just now lusting
> after the high end. I have been using Ruger's S&W M&P's, Kahr, Sig and both Auto's and some revolvers. My question is of all the guns
> I have handled I was very surprised with the DA pull of a H&K as it was very heavy and long. The question is, is this a design philosophy
> of the company or did I just find a model that this is common in. The SA pull was lighter but still not what I expected from an upper level
> ...


First, I will say welcome. Secondly, if you have owned Sig, then you are accustomed to what top notch weapons are. HK is no better! I'm not sure about the design. I've only handled one HK with any significance, and it was the MK23. A monstrosity of a gun!!! A lot of folks will change the trigger systems a little to give their respective pistol a better feel to it.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

shift1 said:


> Spaceba is right......when you want a gun to save your ass it will not be a SIG! It will be a glock!! Try dropping your sig in a mud puddle and see what happens??


Um...I carry Glock and agree they work, but uh...there is a reason the Navy SEALs and British SAS use the SIG P226. It's just as tough and reliable.


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## shift1 (Dec 31, 2013)

I never had a HK or a SIG trigger issue. Got use to shooting them and that was that! I have a friend who is a ex-seal. He told me the navy issued sig 226 as the primary hand gun but in very wet and dirty condition's they had back up weapons and guess what ? They were HK USP 45's and also Glocks! Hmmm?


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I wasn't aware they were given USPs, but I agree that MK23 is a monster.

I could never take to a Sig, they just didn't fit me well. I have noticed quality has kind of slipped since they started making them here though and the hardcore Sig boys prefer not to have them.

"I never had a HK or a SIG trigger issue. Got use to shooting them and that was that!" Well said, it's quite beneficial to be able to pick up just about anything and get acceptable hits with. Whether the gun is for you is a different matter.

While I admit some HKs do have some bad triggers, like anything else not hand fit to an exact spec, they are a service pistol as designed. While the out of the box trigger is fairly representative of what you get, they all seat in with use and some more than others. As I said earlier, my Match trigger broke quite nice at about 4.5lbs out of the box and I'm spoiled by a real nice 1911 trigger. If I can ever get out to shoot it I have no doubt it will settle in down at 4lbs once the sear and hammer lose their sharp edge.

Kind of wild this year old post came back though.


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## shift1 (Dec 31, 2013)

All the HK's I have shot ran 100% and accuracy was for me better than SIG. Don't get me wrong I have always loved Sig but agree they have fell off in quality in the past few years and that's sad! They fit my hand perfectly! I will not own a gun that has issue's!! I'm spoiled! As for the trigger's on HK and SIG I find them to be pretty close. The only trigger I ever changed was in my glocks with the ''NY TRIGGER'' I believe its a 3 1/2 pound pull? I put that in my model 27 and improved follow up or double tap a ton!!


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