# The pain was worth it.



## sp4rg0n (Feb 19, 2016)

Hello everybody,

I have a S&W 60 that I've shot several hundred rounds of .38 special through. Last week at the range, I figured "welp, I bought a .357 magnum, so let's shoot .357 magnum." I noticed two things:

1) My hand hurts, and 
2) My group is way low left on the target.

Ok so I understand (1), and why I have to pull the target back 10 yards to get any semblance of a group. But why does the hotter round cause the group as a whole to drop? Honestly I expected the opposite, but I'm having to aim much higher. Enlighten me?


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## biquer (Sep 19, 2015)

Faster bullets spend less time in the barrel. 
The barrel has less time to rise before the bullet exits. 
The POI is lower.


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

Are you flinching? Then you might be snapping the trigger and lower left is a common place for you to hit. 

Secondly, different ammo, particularly radically different ammo, is going to hit differently. 

Many people will try different ammo to find the one that groups the best and perhaps is suitably comfortable. Then adjust their sites to pull the groups to the point of aim. Then, just always use that ammo.


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## sp4rg0n (Feb 19, 2016)

Ahhh ok. I didn't think of kinematics inside the barrel.

I'm not flinching, but I do have a tendency to shoot a bit left so that didn't surprise me as much. This was American Eagle jsp. I'll try a few others--just an excuse to shoot more.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Spike12* is right, that you need to work on your trigger control and your grip.
As you press through your revolver's double-action, you are also tightening your other fingers in synchronicity with the movement of your trigger finger.
Instead, you need to find a way to isolate the movement of your trigger finger from your other fingers.

One way to accomplish this is to grip the pistol much, much harder, and to maintain that very tight grip all the way through the trigger cycle.
This technique needs to be practiced in dry-firing until it happens without conscious thought. Then you can try it in live-fire practice.

Try it, and see whether it helps.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

No pain with the Chiappa Rhino .357...........
Chiappa Firearms


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Cait43 said:


> No pain with the Chiappa Rhino .357...........
> Chiappa Firearms


Yeah, maybe...
But you still have to acquire good trigger-control practices, in order to hit accurately...even with Chiappa's Wonder Gun.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

When I go from .38 to ..357 mag my first shots are right on after that it is easy to develop a flinch. Load some dummy rounds in with the .357 and find a way to not know where they are. You will see if you are flinching. You can also try shooting in a rest. I usually only shoot .357 out of my 627 just because that is what I want to be used to shooting. It has taken some practice but I am happy with what I can do with my 2 5/8" flame thrower.


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## sp4rg0n (Feb 19, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Spike12* is right, that you need to work on your trigger control and your grip.
> As you press through your revolver's double-action, you are also tightening your other fingers in synchronicity with the movement of your trigger finger.
> Instead, you need to find a way to isolate the movement of your trigger finger from your other fingers.
> 
> ...


Hmm. I was under the impression that gripping this hard with the dom hand was a bad trait? Still, I can give it a try.

I was shooting single action trying to close up my group. I will definitely be doing some more dry practice though.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

The reason for gripping as hard as you can is that it automatically isolates the trigger finger.

If you can figure out a way to do that without gripping hard, go for it.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I find that if I grip as hard as I can with my strong hand, it reduces the dexterity in my trigger finger. I do use a pretty firm grip with my trigger hand, and a somewhat harder grip with my support hand when shooting pistols.

But I do use a near maximal grip with both hands when shooting .357 Magnum with my Ruger GP100.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Gripping hard also mitigates felt recoil.
It may seem that a looser grip would cause less pain, but the opposite is true.
If you grip loosely, you let the gun get a "head start" in recoil, and it slams into your hand.
If you grip it tightly, your hand, arm, and shoulder work together to help absorb the recoil impulse.


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## sp4rg0n (Feb 19, 2016)

Makes sense. I've shot .357 mag in a larger Ruger but I guess the mass was enough to keep the recoil down. Looking back, it was probably just target ammo, too.


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## OldManMontgomery (Nov 2, 2013)

*From an old guy...*

First, regarding the recoil and pain. Should you be required to defend yourself - and may your life be boring in that regard - you will probably not have to fire more than a cylinder full. So don't worry about the pain building up. Adrenalin rush will also help control pain. Unfortunately, it will also reduce the ability to think and fine motor skills, unless you've practiced a lot.

Second. A hand muscle spasm occurs to many of us. This is not to be confused with a 'flinch' which is a girly sort of thing to do and not admitted in public. (Ladies, pray ignore that comment if offended. Too many women have cleaned my clock in terms of shooting for me to be 'dismissive' at this point.)

This muscle spasm generally tends to pull the handgun low and away from the strong side. As a right hander, I tend to shoot to the left when shooting one handed and not paying close attention. In fact, for may years I could NOT understand why all my handguns - regardless of action type - shot low and left.

May I suggest you limit your shooting of 'heavy' loads to an absolute minimum _per session_. Two cylinders of good, serious, concentrated trigger pulls with the 'serious' ammo is better than flanging two or three boxes downrange and hating it. Perhaps you might even work with wadcutters to get the trigger control and 'roll' of the mechanism down into muscle memory; then move on to heavier loads. But even for a seasoned shooter, just a few rounds giving pain and much disturbance can re-activate the muscle spasm in the hand and arm. Maybe in the head.

Just a thought.


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