# 3.5 lb trigger?



## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

What is your opinions on a trigger job? I'm thinking about taken it down to 3.5 lbs. I figure if a 1911 can operate at that why not my G23. The 1911 is still at that weight with the safety off and one must still maintain finger control on the trigger.

Do you think it may be a legal issue should it come to that in a personal defense situation?


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

3.5 to 5lbs trigger weight is good on a 1911/45 or a revolver if everything else is set right. Its got to break clean and smooth. I don't know enought about plastic guns with the blow back systems in them to say. I know some of them like my 40ve Smith feels like it is 15lbs.


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## Richard (May 8, 2006)

Baldy, I wonder about the same thing as I get rotten groups with my G17. I ordered a 3.5 lb trigger etc. from Glockmeister and I will be able to give an opinion after it is installed and I have shot it. Regards, Richard


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Richard said:


> Baldy, I wonder about the same thing as I get rotten groups with my G17. I ordered a 3.5 lb trigger etc. from Glockmeister and I will be able to give an opinion after it is installed and I have shot it. Regards, Richard


I have a Glock 34 w/ the 3.5 connector, and it is the first Glock that I shoot decently. So, it does make a difference. But, be aware that the 3.5 connector is a bit of a misnomer. It does't actually come down to 3.5 lbs. It's more like 4.5.

I read last week online that Glock has recently started remarking the 3.5lb connector to 4.5 lbs, the actual pull.

But, either way, it does make it easier to shoot.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

The problem, if there is one, with the light Glock triggers is that they are marketed as "target" or "competition" triggers.

Massad Ayoob says (I'm an LFI grad) that it is possible that an unscrupulous prosecutor may accuse you of intentionally putting a "hair trigger" in your gun. Said prosecutor may use the lightened trigger in an attempt to paint you as a nut who is unhealthily obsessed with weaponry. Why would a jury want such a person walking the streets, eh?

On the civil side, you may be accused of negligently shooting your attacker, thus removing your "affirmative defense" of justifiable homicide. No doubt a shark-finned personal injury lawyer will be able to turn up some "expert witness" to claim that your gun was dangerous. Civil court only requires a "preponderance of evidence" for you to lose you house, your life savings, and basically everything else you have.

In contrast to some of Massad's claims, this one can actually be backed up with cites of court cases.

All that said, you have to survive on the street before you survive in the courtroom.

The counter for this, again according to Ayoob, is to have good reasoning in place for why you lightened the trigger. As in: "Counselor, I lightened the trigger because doing so enabled me to shoot more accurately. This meant I was able to stop Mr. Scumbag's attack on me with a a minimal amount of shots fired, thus placing any innocent bystanders, and even Mr. Scumbag, in less danger."

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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, I never modified my G26 I had for years because I didn't want any possible issues. But, the G34 comes that way - so, it can't be said that I did it.

besides, I don't carry my G34 outside of the house.


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## hberttmank (May 5, 2006)

I put a 3.5 lb connector in my G17 and it made the trigger pull as good or better than my G34. As far as the legal aspects go, is there actually a case where the prosecutor had a Glock taken apart to check and see if it had a stock connector? And if so, did this turn a legal self defense shooting into a bad one?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

hberttmank said:


> I put a 3.5 lb connector in my G17 and it made the trigger pull as good or better than my G34. As far as the legal aspects go, is there actually a case where the prosecutor had a Glock taken apart to check and see if it had a stock connector? And if so, did this turn a legal self defense shooting into a bad one?


There have been several instances of prosecutors (and/or personal injury lawyers) making an issue of light triggers. The Alvarez case in Miami is one that pops immediately to mind. I am unaware of any specifically involving Glocks, but you can be sure that if the case even gets to a grand jury, the prosecutor is going to have his expert examine the death weapon in excruciating detail, no matter the brand. Glock armorers are a dime a dozen, and they can all tell a 3.5 from a stock connector.

This is not to say that a light trigger WILL get you in hot water, or that it WILL get you convicted if you end up at trial. It's just that there are so many things beyond our control in a situation like this, why throw the opposition a bone when you don't have to? It probably wouldn't matter at all in a clear-cut case of self-defense. The trouble is that many cases aren't quite so clear-cut, with poor or no witnesses, different accounts of what happened, etc.

The flip side is that, if you can't shoot you gun well enough to survive on the street, the potential courtroom stuff won't matter. My general opinion, though, is that if you can't shoot your gun well enough without drastically lightening the trigger, you should probably select a different carry gun.

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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> There have been several instances of prosecutors (and/or personal injury lawyers) making an issue of light triggers. The Alvarez case in Miami is one that pops immediately to mind. I am unaware of any specifically involving Glocks, but you can be sure that if the case even gets to a grand jury, the prosecutor is going to have his expert examine the death weapon in excruciating detail, no matter the brand. Glock armorers are a dime a dozen, and they can all tell a 3.5 from a stock connector.
> 
> This is not to say that a light trigger WILL get you in hot water, or that it WILL get you convicted if you end up at trial. It's just that there are so many things beyond our control in a situation like this, why throw the opposition a bone when you don't have to? It probably wouldn't matter at all in a clear-cut case of self-defense. The trouble is that many cases aren't quite so clear-cut, with poor or no witnesses, different accounts of what happened, etc.
> 
> The flip side is that, if you can't shoot you gun well enough to survive on the street, the potential courtroom stuff won't matter. My general opinion, though, is that if you can't shoot your gun well enough without drastically lightening the trigger, you should probably select a different carry gun.


Mike, can you give me more info that will allow me to access legal info about the "Alvarez Case" in Miami? I did a google search and was unsuccessful. Any information would be appreciated. 
Charlie


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Luis Alvarez was a Miami-area police officer, and an FTO when he was in the shooting. I believe the case was either State of Florida v. Alvarez or City of Miami v. Alvarez. This was the case that made Miami go to DAO revolvers (they eventually went to Glocks with 5.5 connectors). It was in the early 1980s, if memory serves. I am pretty sure I am spelling his name correctly, but you might try variations.

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## DennyCrane (May 11, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> Luis Alvarez was a Miami-area police officer, and an FTO when he was in the shooting. I believe the case was either State of Florida v. Alvarez or City of Miami v. Alvarez. This was the case that made Miami go to DAO revolvers (they eventually went to Glocks with 5.5 connectors). It was in the early 1980s, if memory serves. I am pretty sure I am spelling his name correctly, but you might try variations.


Interesting....


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