# Best .40S&W for self-defense?



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Just wondering how the penetration, expansion and ballistic charts measure different brands in .40S&W. I keep mine loaded with 180-grain Speer Gold Dots, but I'm curious as to what else is out there, and how different brands fair against each other.

Also, some brands offer a regular versus short-barrel cartridge. How do they differ? I know the Speer SBs have a lower muzzle velocity/energy, but they're test fired from a 3" barrel instead of a 4" barrel, so the numbers will obviously be different because of barrel length difference. But is the purpose of a SB bullet to have lower velocity/energy so it reduces recoil, therefore allowing quicker follow-up shots?


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Short Barrel designation from Speer is a differance in bullet design. The SB bullets are designed to open at slower velocities then regular loads. Speer also tries to use faster powders so there is leess muzzle flash created due to the shorter barrel. As for other loads it depends what you are going for. The heavier bullets will give you better penetration and better energy downrange. But you give up some muzzle energy and velocity. For instance your 180 gr Gold Dots are traveling 950 fps(feet per second) and producing 361 ft ibs of energy at the muzzle. This load shot into bare 10% gelatin will penetrate 14.60 inches and will expand to a diameter of 0.60 inches, through clothed gelatin it will penetrate 17.10 inches and will expand to 0.62". If you drop down to the 165 Grain Bullet made by the same company, Gold Dot, the bullet will be traveling at 1080 fps and producing 427 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Bare gelatin will have it penetrating 13.05" and expanding to 0.65" in diameter, while clothed gelatin allows it to penetrate 15.80" and expand to 0.60" in diameter. If you drop down to 155 grs. which will be traveling at 1200 fps and producing 496 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle the penetration in bare gelatin decreases to 10.70" but the expansion increases to 0.84" while the clothed gelatin allows 18.10" of penetration and expanding the bullet to a diameter of 0.57". Now the FBI mandated that all loads that it used would be able to penetrate 12" so as to be able to make it to the vitals of a person if they were shot from the side and the bullet had to penetrate through the arm first due to under penetration of 115 grain 9mm bullets in the Miami-Dade shootout in Florida ultimately bringing the 40 S&W into existence. Higher velocity rounds will pentrate hard barriers(such as glass and car doors) better then slower rounds but in soft flesh such as the human body will penetrate less. So the choice is yours, with lighter bullets you get higher velocity, more expansion, and a larger energy dump (if up close); but will lose penetration in soft flesh. The heavier bullets will give you quite the opposite, less velocity, less expansion, less energy dump (but they will retain downrange energy much better then light bullets as light bullets lose velocity quicker); but penetrtion increases ensuring the bullet making it to the vitals if shot is placed correctly. A good compromise is the 165 gr as it has the best of both worlds.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The differences between the premium loads from reputable manufacturers are minute in the broad scheme of armed defense. Pick one that you can control and that works in your gun, then move on to the things that actually matter: mindset, marksmanship, gunhandling, and tactics.


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Mike that if you use a reputable ammo maker(Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Winchester Ranger, etc) bullet design is the least of your concern. Getting the shot on target when you need to get it there is the most important thing in a defensive situation. All defensive ammo has more in common then it does differences. Just make sure you do your part and you should be ok!


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Good words...I don't intend on dumping my Gold Dots in the trash and running out to buy something else that has minimal expansion/penetration superiority, but I was just curious as to what else is out there, and how the SB bullets are different. I imagine if I ever need to shoot defensively, the heavier bullets would perform better for the purpose, but again it doesn't really matter as long as I hit on target. Being that I carry with 180-grain bullets, I practice with them as well. I did notice a difference using 165-grain Winchester round noses versus the same brand/type of 180-grain...the 180-grains kicked a bit harder, but that didn't affect my accuracy or return-to-aim until close to 100 rounds. And being that I can only carry 17 rounds right now (8 and 8+1), I'm pretty sure I'd never get close to the 100 round mark, lol.

Just wondering though, why would a bullet penetrate further in clothed gelatin than bare gelatin? Maybe I'm not understanding what bare gelatin actually is.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Clothing tends to retard the expansion of bullets by filling the hollow cavity with fabric. Less expansion means deeper penetration.

Get yourself a shot timer to really evaluate ammo. It will show you your time between shots (your "splits") and enable to you to objectively evaluate your speed with one round versus another. A shot timer is as important as a target in practical/defensive shooting practice. Best $130 you'll ever spend if you really want to learn to shoot fast and well. I remain shocked by how few people own shot timers, but who have a dozen pistols.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

You know I think that's $130 that's worth spending. I want to train myself to be the best defensive, tactical shooter I can be, and evaluate myself to use the ammo that's best for me. Where could I get one of these?


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## soldierboy029 (Jan 2, 2008)

Competition Electronics offers the Pocket Pro and Pocket Pro II for $130 bucks, a very wise investment indeed. Pact Electronics offers a more expensive model but I like the ones made by Competiton Electronics better


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> You know I think that's $130 that's worth spending. I want to train myself to be the best defensive, tactical shooter I can be, and evaluate myself to use the ammo that's best for me. Where could I get one of these?


I got mine from Midway USA.

As far as training yourself, a much faster route to true competence is investing in professional instruction. An experienced instructor can save you a lot of trouble by showing you how to do it right the first time, rather than a trial and error DIY process. The money you invest in training will be recouped in ammo saved by learning proper technique under the eye of a good teacher. The best money I've ever spent on shooting wasn't Colts or Glocks or even cases of ammo - it was professional training.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Professional training in martial arts was definitely faster and more efficient in learning, so it couldn't be any different in defensive shooting. The new manager of my apartments' husband was a LEO for 20 years or so, and I've talked to him on her phone about holsters, training techniques, etc. They're talking about purchasing some land about an hour away for hunting, and I'm sure he'd be glad to show me what he knows. Next time I'm at Bud's I'll ask the guys there about options for training, I'm sure they could point me in the right direction.


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## toopercentmlk (Apr 25, 2007)

I didn't want to start another thread so I'll just ask here. I'm bought a .40s&w with 5inch barrel, should I buy 165 or 185 grain practice ammo? I'm completely new to .40cal...


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