# is this normal for the vp9?



## jma20a (Mar 10, 2015)

so i've had my vp9 for a few months and i have a quick question to ask.

when i pull the trigger and it hits the "wall" there is still a little play left in the trigger before the "break" what i have noticed is that the back of the slide moves down a small amount between the wall and the break.

is it normal to have the slide move down(closer to the frame) just before the break?

ive been having trouble with firing in quick succession and being accurate.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

jma20a said:


> ...is it normal to have the slide move down(closer to the frame) just before the break?...


Maybe the trigger bar pulls the slide down a little, as it cams itself into releasing the striker.
Therefore, maybe it's quite normal.



jma20a said:


> ...ive been having trouble with firing in quick succession and being accurate.


How experienced are you, in pistol shooting? (Honesty, please.)
Inexperienced shooters should not try to be quick, since accuracy can only be learned through slow, smooth practice.
If an inexperienced shooter tries to shoot "double taps," the second shot will almost always be inaccurately placed. Recoil from the first shot disturbs the sight picture, which must first be reacquired before the second shot can be accurately fired.

There are many factors in play, in the matter of firing that second shot. Grip firmness must be maintained, trigger control must be maintained, recoil must be mastered and controlled, and sight picture must be reacquired, all at the same time.
This is an awful lot to learn, all at once. The truth is, _you can't learn all this, all at once_. You have to master each step separately, before you can combine all of the necessary techniques into effective quick shooting.

That's why the beginner must proceed slowly, trying hard to achieve smoothness and control first.
Quickness comes only with time and lots of practice.


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## jma20a (Mar 10, 2015)

ive been shooting for 6 years, this is just the first pistol ive had to call my own. never really had an issue with a good double tap, but at a range of 20-25 yards it hits low on the second shot. i can try to get a video on how far it moves down, but it feels like it has a small effect at longer ranges.

i am going to bring it to the gun shop and see what they say


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

jma20a said:


> "quick succession and being accurate," but at a range of 20-25 yards it hits low on the second shot


You must be fairly skilled to shoot "quick succession and being accurate" at 20-25 yards. Just sayin.

May just need some more shooting, or dry firing to condition the trigger in a little.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

jma20a said:


> ive been shooting for 6 years, this is just the first pistol ive had to call my own...


Pardon me for saying this, but six years of pistol shooting with other people's guns seems to me to mark you as inexperienced.
Merely shooting for six years, off and on, does not make experience and skill. Skill requires constant practice, a little bit every day.
As *denner* observed, dry-fire practice is a daily necessity.

I suggest that you are jerking the trigger, or "milking" the grip, for your second, follow-up shot. That's why your second shot goes in low.
Absolute proof would be if your second shot goes low-and-left (assuming that you're a right-handed shooter).

I doubt very much that the problem is the gun.
If it were the gun, the first shot would also be low.


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## RobertS (Jan 7, 2016)

denner said:


> You must be fairly skilled to shoot "quick succession and being accurate" at 20-25 yards. Just sayin.


IMO, not fairly skilled, but highly skilled. 20-25 yrds is 60-75 feet. I've yet to see an indoor range here that goes to 75'. And if you're using regular ole iron sights, yeah. I think rapid fire at 60-75' with a handgun is going to be nigh impossible unless you're of legendary steel. I think Jerry Miculek would have trouble hitting reliably at 60-75' in rapid fire.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Yeah...I guess that I should note here that, past 20 yards, my own pistol shooting was never really good.
For 25-yard pistol stages, if the competition permitted it, I would go into rollover prone. If I was required to stand up, my score was low.

But the issue here is that the second shot goes low.
If it were the gun, both shots would be low.
Therefore, it must be the shooter's technique.


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## joethebear (Nov 24, 2015)

What pistols do you have experience with in the passed, it makes a huge difference in shooting a new/different pistol.

Please be safe 
Joethebear


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## jma20a (Mar 10, 2015)

sorry, my f up, 20 to 25 feet.

took it to my local gun shop, they said that its normal after having fired this many rounds through it. i just need to have a much different trigger control than what it am used to. ive been to the range twice, i can finally get a feel for the trigger and getting it up the the correct stopping point(after that miner pull to get to the wall).


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## buckhorn_cortez (Feb 16, 2014)

> when i pull the trigger and it hits the "wall" there is still a little play left in the trigger before the "break" what i have noticed is that the back of the slide moves down a small amount between the wall and the break.


If you mean additional take-up in the trigger travel - yes, the trigger will move about another 1/16-inch before it breaks.



> is it normal to have the slide move down(closer to the frame) just before the break?


Not on my VP9. I've just looked at it and cocked the striker then pulled the trigger 3-4 times to see. On my VP9 the slide does not move at all.

As to second shots being low, it could be trigger control or it could be you following the sight as it dips downward at the end of the slide closing. If you can find some slow motion videos of semi-autos cycling, you will see that the recoil spring closing the slide will cause the muzzle of the gun to dip very slightly as the slide locks shut.

My suggestion is to learn to follow the front sight carefully, and to pull the trigger when the sight is brought back to level from the slight dip in the front after the slide closes.

Low left follow-up shots can be from a number of causes associated with flinching (this includes recoil anticipation). This can be through "heeling" or pushing the gun forward and down with your hand in an attempt to compensate for recoil before it happens.

One way to determine if this is the problem is to load your magazine with dummy rounds alternated with live rounds. If you're moving the gun with your hand in anticipation of recoil, it will become obvious when the dummy round is loaded as the front sight will not be on target, but will be pushed downward.

Learning to concentrate on following and tracking the front sight will help because you are concentrating on a good habit that distracts you from attempting to force yourself to NOT do something (flinch).

Another exercise you can do as the very first thing prior to shooting for accuracy is to rapidly shoot an entire magazine on a target without concentrating on aiming each shot. Rapidly pull the trigger while watching the front sight and try to just keep the sight centered on the target.

This helps because you are not aiming for exact accuracy and the rapid fire doesn't allow you to concentrate on each shot and anticipate the recoil. Instead, you are just learning to ride the front sight and make a judgment as to whether the sight is over the target or not.

This removes the mental pressure associated with shooting for accuracy and replaces it with tracking the front sight and getting used to the sensations associated with shooting a gun.

As previously mentioned, dry firing can be a great aid as it allows you to develop trigger control without recoil so you will learn to keep the front sight on the target throughout the trigger pull.


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