# .45acp Luger



## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

A number of years ago, I bought a mint condition .45acp Luger. I am pretty certain that is a conversion from 9mm but I have not a clue as to who did the work. I am familiar with the Krauseworks and Wyatt .45acp Luger conversions and this is not one of them. 

The Luger was made by Mauser and imported by Stoeger. It is also simply marked, "Germany," not "Made in Germany."

Not too long after I bought the .45acp Luger, I contacted the Luger Forum to request information and sent detailed photos of it as well. No one recognized it. More that ten years have passed since that inquiry. Perhaps someone here has some helpful information.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

John Martz made custom Lugers in .45 ACP, too. 
Here is a link to a recent auction of a Martz custom Luger:

John Martz Custom Luger Pistol in 45 ACP Caliber

My understanding of this type of conversion is that a near-complete reconstruction of the pistol is required to make room for the larger cartridge. I don't remember if it was Martz or someone else, but I recall reading about a custom Luger conversion to .45 ACP that required two guns for the conversion, as the frames would both be cut in half off-center (one to the left side, one to the right), and the two thick halves were welded-up to make a frame wide enough to handle the pudgy little .45 ACP pumpkin-balls. Mags were basically completely custom built.

I'm not aware of any other .45 caliber Lugers made in normal or limited-run production.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

A few years (10?) after the end of WW2, _The American Rifleman_ ran a fairly detailed article about converting the Luger to .45 ACP.
It was illustrated by pictures of the work being done (by the author?), whose name I no longer remember.
It should be possible to search the "morgue" files of _The Rifleman_, and find the article.

The one "feature" that I vividly remember was that it was no longer possible to use a separate magazine.
One had to load, cartridge-by-cartridge, through the locked-open top of the action.

More than that, my ancient memory sayeth not.

(BTW: That reloading method was the deal-breaker for me. Well, that, and the fact that I lived in New York City at the time, where, even then, pistols were a no-no.)


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

I maybe wrong but there were some made from scratch as .45 ACP. Not to say there aren't conversions, but I think I read an article about some that were made for .45acp. 

I'd keep searching.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Spike12 said:


> I maybe wrong but there were some made from scratch as .45 ACP. Not to say there aren't conversions, but I think I read an article about some that were made for .45acp.
> 
> I'd keep searching.


Yes. DMW made two Lugers in .45 ACP for US Government trials, at some time between 1900 and 1911.

See: Gun History: The Million Dollar Luger in .45 ACP | Field & Stream
Also see: Luger pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (one paragraph, about 2/3 of the way down the page)
And see: >45 ACP Luger pistol - Google Search

From the Wikipedia article: "...In 1906 and 1907, the US Army held trials for a large-caliber semi-automatic. DWM provided two sample Luger pistols chambered in .45 ACP for testing, with serial numbers 1 and 2. The fate of serial number 1 is unknown, as it was not returned. The serial number 2 Luger .45 passed the tests, and survived to be traded among collectors. Its rarity gives its value of around [US$1,000,000.00], at the time the "Million Dollar Guns" episode of History Channel's "Tales of the Gun" was filmed, recheck by Guns & Ammo as of 1994."


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

You are correct. I forgot to mention the Martz conversion. I have researched this one too. John Martz told me that when he did a conversion, he engraved his name on the inside of the small cover that is above and forward of the trigger


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

This sounds like the Wyatt conversion.


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

I am certain for two reasons that my .45acp Luger is not one of the ones that was made for the 1905 US Army tests. First, serial numbers 1 and 2 had a grip safety and mine does not. Second, mine was imported by Stoeger arms.


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

Can anyone suggest a trustworthy place where I could send this Luger to have it x-rayed or dye checked to see if it has been cut, widened and rewelded?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

capmonty said:


> Can anyone suggest a trustworthy place where I could send this Luger to have it x-rayed or dye checked to see if it has been cut, widened and rewelded?


Don't send out the entire gun.
I wouldn't even send out the frame.
But there must be some specific part or two that would be diagnostic. Maybe the bolt and toggle?

If you send out parts, any automotive shop that does magnafluxing could tell you what you need to know.

See: http://www.google.com/search?q=magnafluxing&oe=UTF-8&gfns=1&oq=magnafluxing&gs_l=heirloom-serp.12...0.0.0.106601.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr...0...1ac..34.heirloom-serp..0.0.0.qRYKRe78o-Y


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If you find the time,,,,,,love to see a few photos 

Thanks


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

.45 Luger info found on various websites:

(Most interesting one, to me; a discussion thread with a photo, right here on this website, 6 years ago!)
http://www.handgunforum.net/general-semi-auto/18503-45-luger.html

Luger .45 ACP - The Firing Line Forums
(makes sure to read last post, on page 2; guy claims that DWM .45 Luger was found in Canada, complete with shoulder stock)

.45 CAL. LUGERS: ABERMAN, NORTON, ARMY 45 CAL.
(An interesting but long discussion on .45 Lugers; I did not read every page)

.45 Caliber Luger
(Photos of both sides of a .45 Luger)

Auction listing of rare/valuable guns, including a Stoeger Luger in .30 Luger (Item 1083)
James D. Julia, Inc. -
(Describes markings in detail; "Germany" is one)

Long and interesting web article on .45 Lugers. Make sure all your ad-blocking programs are turned off, and most of the links will pop up photos when clicked (click on the photo again to close it and return to the article)
Unique and one-of-a-kind configured .45 Cal Luger, stamped R1.

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Apparently there is a guy named Nedbal in Austria that has madea few .45 ACP Lugers from scratch.
If it was his, it should have an "NK" logo on the rear of the toggle. No obvious connection to DWM.
Here is what I've been able to find on him (mostly various Youtube video clips of one of his .45 Lugers being fired):

Nedbal Werle Luger Cal 45. ACP - A copy of the ONE MILLION DOLLAR LUGER (2011)





The Nedbal Werle Luger .45 ACP is back in 2012 (11 May 2012)





Firing the Nedbal Werle Luger . 45 ACP serial number 002 (19 April 2013)





His site:
Nedbal Arms KG - Rarities
(.PDF shows computer-generated images of a Luger with a grip safety)


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Double-post? What the...? 

Sorry, folks.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

From *The Firing Line Forums*:
member _Sturmgewehre_ writes, "I have an old .45 ACP Luger in the safe. Are they rare or something?"
member _kodiakbeer_ replies, "Is that the one I swapped you for a Hi-Point?"

Somehow, I get the impression that they're not taking this important subject seriously enough.


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

An excellent suggestion I think. I am pretty certain that magnafluxing does not cause any damage. Thanks.


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

I will try to send two pictures


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Except for the barrel length and the trigger/trigger guard, that looks very similar to the photo shown in the first link in my post #12, above.










Capmonty, I wonder if your pistol was a "salesman's sample", sent to Stoeger so they could shop it around and gauge interest in importing it for sale. For one reason or another the deal never materialized, and the gun was kept by the salesman or someone else in the company until it was sold at a later date. There may even be a few more of them out there.

Something like that came up with Glock a year or so ago; a guy claimed to have a matched set (consecutive serial numbers) of ported Glock model 35 longslide .40 pistols. Only thing is, Glock has never offered a factory-ported G35 as a normal model for sale. The seller finally produced a letter from Glock indicating they were samples made up for a salesman to make a proposal to a specific police department. When the contract never materialized, the samples were sold to someone in the company, and eventually, they "got out" into the general used-pistol market. The person that told me about the pistols eventually bought both of them.


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## capmonty (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks. I went to the auction website and read the description of "A. F. STOEGER AMERICAN EAGLE LUGER. SN 8735. Cal. 30 Luger." The markings on this .30 Luger are identical to those on my .45acp Luger. This seems to confirm my belief that this gun, no matter what the original caliber, was manufactured and imported prior to WW2.


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