# Another rookie/newbie question



## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

Hello to all. I just joined the forum as I'm looking to get into shooting. What I'm looking to do is to do some target shooting (perhaps doing a little competition, too), take a CCW class and have something for home defense. To that end, I'm planning to get a 9 mm of some sort.

Over the weekend, I went to a local shooting center (gun shop and range) and handled several offerings from Glock, Beretta, Springfield, CZ and Taurus, among others. As I would like to have a gun that could possibly be a concealed carry piece, I was looking at guns with a somewhat shorter (4") barrel. Of the ones I handled, I preferred the Glock 19. I also liked the Glock's simple design and safety features. The longer trigger travel wasn't an issue like I thought it might be. And the particular 19 that I looked at had Glock's night sight system which seemed pretty good despite adding to the price tag.

However, I got advice from a friend who's a former state trooper out west and he was recommending a Beretta 92 especially for the decocker feature. The Beretta felt good in my hand from what I recall.

I'm planning to go back and shoot some of the candidates soon. So along with that, I wanted to get some feedback from more experienced shooters about what guns to consider and also what features (DAO vs. SA/DA, night sights vs. regular sights, etc.) to think about. 

Also, I'm left-handed and am curious to know what I should be mindful of with regards to being a leftie in gun world that's mostly right-handed. I did not have any noticeable problem with ejecting the magazine on the Glock 19, for instance, and as was told that the magazine release could be placed on the right side of the grip.

Thank you in advance for the replies.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Kudos for going out and doing it right, I wish more people would so that from the start.

Regarding your State Trooper friend...

Cops will almost always recommend the gun they carry, odds are that your friend carries (or carried) a Beretta. It's larger gun to try and conceal, and while it's nice that there's a decocker, not all guns need them, like the Glock. It's it not fully cocked until you pull the trigger, and even if it was fully cocked, so what? If your friend is not a shooter or "gun nut" (I prefer the term firearms enthusiast) he may not know jack squat about guns. Being in the Military or a LEO does not make one a gun expert unless it is also their hobby outside of work. I know both types from both groups. Be careful who you get info from.

Regarding the trigger types, there are different camps. I am of the belief that ONE consisent trigger pull is better than two makeing a DAO, SAO, or striker fired gun a better choice than a DA/SA gun as you only have one trigger pull to master. I'm not saying that both can't be mastered, but it takes a little more work.

The RH/LH issue isn't all that big an issuse, you drop the mag with your left middle finger and release the slide with your right hand. However the NEW 4th GEN GLOCK _might _be equipped with more lefty friendly controls.

Regular sights vs night sights is another matter of personal preference, I like them but they are not a nessecity. I don't like most factoy night sights as they all seem to have huge white dots aorund the tritium vials and they throw me off a bit. "Proper" sight algnement does not use the dots, the dots are there for "hasty" sight alignment but can act as a distraction from aligning the front and rear sights properly. Go back to the rental case and see which YOU like better.


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

Thank you for all of that and for the link to the next-gen Glock article. I'd seen a reference to a new version coming out soon but hadn't seen any details yet.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> If your friend is not a shooter or "gun nut" (I prefer the term firearms enthusiast) he may not know jack squat about guns. Being in the Military or a LEO does not make one a gun expert unless it is also their hobby outside of work. I know both types from both groups. Be careful who you get info from.


So true. I was really surprised to discover that many LEO's are pretty average marksmen, and that most soldiers and Marines don't have great handgun skills, unless they have either had extra training or practiced on their own.

The Beretta is a good quality handgun, but certainly would not be my preference for a CCW. The Glock is a good simple handgun that always works, and is more accurate than most people can shoot. The G19 is a good choice.

You might also want to check out the Springfield XD line, my personal preference in the striker fired pistols.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

*Welcome!!!*

...I have had two first-time shooters do well with the Ruger P95 in 9mm...simple controls, compact and yet full-sized, rounded for CCW, accurate and lightweight...used models without a rail are my favorite, and the decocker...found only on used models...the simplest......safety on/off models are the current production...used ones are $300-350 in stainless...that'd be my recommendation...helped my 62-year-old sister get one for her first gun, and she hit a playing card 6 out of ten times the first time she fired it...it's good in the hand...with Ruger, the decockers or safety are ambi...


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## nUgZ (Nov 22, 2009)

Welcome to the forum. Lots of great advice so far, but I'll somewhat echo sheepdog's advice. See if you can find a used Ruger with a decocker. I have a P89 and it is wonderful. I trust my life with it everyday. I've never had a failure to fire or failure to eject. No problems at all actually and the gun is almost 18 years old.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

Welcome from North Central Texas .

I think you'll like it here.

I think you'll find that most people on here have their "favorite" guns.

You should continue to get advice but should also continue to go rent or borrow different guns to shoot - in one of your trips to practice - you'll suddenly go wow this is really a great gun

And you will have found your 1st pet - there will others to follow 

I'm a lefty too and can shoot auto's or revolvers - I happen to like auto's.

I just bought a Springfield XDm in 9mm and really like it.

But I have several others (brands) that I also like,


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks for the responses so far. They are informative and giving me items to consider.

Dondavis3 - it's good to hear from another southpaw.


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## zetti1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Welcome from Alabama. Listen to the multitude of opinions, study various reviews, handle and test fire as many pistols as feasible before making your purchase. You may even want to consider purchasing a used gun. Rest assured, once you select your first pistol, you will be looking for your second one AND the many neat accessories!!! Whatever you decide, if you don’t like it, you can always sell it later. I actually wanted to get the Beretta 92FS until I held the CZ P-01. It is one of the few guns NATO approved and it has a decoker.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 flieger67

Us lefty's gotta stay togeather :smt023

:smt1099


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## GatorDude (Dec 5, 2009)

Read some of Mossad Ayoob's articles in the gun magazines. He is a proponent of Double Action Only designs and generally seems to pass on good judgement and general legal advice about carrying concealed and the use of force.

Good luck!


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

GatorDude said:


> Read some of Mossad Ayoob's articles in the gun magazines. He is a proponent of Double Action Only designs and generally seems to pass on good judgement and general legal advice about carrying concealed and the use of force.
> 
> Good luck!


I just read one of his articles in "American Handgunner", I believe. He's got a very good writing style and is quite informative.


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## threewheelin (Jul 22, 2009)

flieger67 said:


> Hello to all. I just joined the forum as I'm looking to get into shooting. What I'm looking to do is to do some target shooting (perhaps doing a little competition, too), take a CCW class and have something for home defense. To that end, I'm planning to get a 9 mm of some sort.
> 
> Over the weekend, I went to a local shooting center (gun shop and range) and handled several offerings from Glock, Beretta, Springfield, CZ and Taurus, among others. As I would like to have a gun that could possibly be a concealed carry piece, I was looking at guns with a somewhat shorter (4") barrel. Of the ones I handled, I preferred the Glock 19. I also liked the Glock's simple design and safety features. The longer trigger travel wasn't an issue like I thought it might be. And the particular 19 that I looked at had Glock's night sight system which seemed pretty good despite adding to the price tag.
> 
> ...


I too am a leftie,newbie starting out .I've done an extensive amount of research online...NY doesnt offer rent-n-shoot to non permit holders.I took my NRA Basic Pistol Course and am waiting for our fair sherrif to do my backgound work .Hopefully have it by next hunting season...lol . I went for the Kimber Compact CDP II I picked it up used but wasnt detoured because of Kimbers non warranty as anyone knows Kimber stands behind thier products of any age for manufacturer related problems.Kimbers are a little more $ and everyone Ive talked to says not to use for CCW because of price and if you get into a self defense situation you could be without that $1000 to $1500 gun to Uncle Sam for evidence purposes.I say that gun only needs to detur a crime for me and my family once and its payed for ,Ill go buy another.Accuracy on Kimbers are excellent from all the revues Ive read I stick with this forum and a few others from my area .They are the best resourse for info you will find bar none.Good luck with your search and if all else fails keep practicing


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## flyinpolack (Dec 16, 2009)

Sorry for the derail, I just have a "lefty" question of my own.
Are there any semi auto pistols that are actually set up for lefties from the factory, & eject the casings to the left?


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

flyinpolack said:


> Sorry for the derail, I just have a "lefty" question of my own.
> Are there any semi auto pistols that are actually set up for lefties from the factory, & eject the casings to the left?


If you mean both magazine eject button and slide release lever on the thumbside w/left side ejection -- none that I know of.

The Walther P1 and P5 both eject left, but have the mag release and slide release lever on the left side.


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## MonsterB (Oct 25, 2009)

flyinpolack said:


> Sorry for the derail, I just have a "lefty" question of my own.
> Are there any semi auto pistols that are actually set up for lefties from the factory, & eject the casings to the left?


Ok ok, I know why you want that, so you can get your shells to hit me in the head while Im reloading on your left at the range....thanks alot jackass


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## MonsterB (Oct 25, 2009)

And more back on topic, my 2 cents is this...the Glock is an incredible gun, I own one and could not possibly say enough good about it.....holding it in my left hand (its a Glock 26 just so you know), the mag release button lines up perfectly between your trigger finger and your middle finger, so its not in the way at all for a lefty....I just tried and you can easily hit the mag release with your middle finger, although its not as easy as with your thumb like a righty....and up till the new 4th gen glocks, you cannot switch the mag release to the right side, not really sure if the new onew will alow that or not. There must be some good info on using a Glock if your a lefty out there, Im sure someone with experience will chime in....As for the gun I would say definitely get one, you will not be dissapointed..


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## terese70 (Dec 30, 2009)

You are so lucky to have a good place to rent guns. There is only one place locally that rents guns and the only thing they had was Glocks. While I like Glocks, they don't fit my hands as well as say the XDs and the M & Ps. I am glad that you got to try out a variety of guns. It's a fun ride isn't it?


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

*Update*

I just got back from finally getting to test-fire three of the pistols I was most interested in: the Glock 19, the XD and an S&W M&P. I shot through 100 rounds of ammo, so I think I got a pretty good feel for the guns. The Glock and the XD felt the best and shot the best for me, an admitted newbie. The M&P's grip shape just didn't feel good to me, particularly up near the beavertail. But before anyone asks, I don't know what grip was on the M&P but as I could reach the trigger comfortably, I believe it's just the M&P's profile that made it slightly uncomfortable in the webbing between the thumb and forefinger.

Between the XD and the 19, I'm pretty much sold on the 19. But I must admit that my first shot with XD hit almost dead-center on the target. But I attribute that to luck more than any particular skill on my part.

As an aside, the guy in the lane next to me was shooting a sub-compact Kahr .45 and let me fire it a bit. I was surprised that the smaller gun with the bigger rounds didn't recoil harder than it did. In fact, I thought it wasn't bad at all.

I plan to go back to the range next week and fire the 19 and the XD again and perhaps something else.


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

terese70 said:


> You are so lucky to have a good place to rent guns. There is only one place locally that rents guns and the only thing they had was Glocks. While I like Glocks, they don't fit my hands as well as say the XDs and the M & Ps. I am glad that you got to try out a variety of guns. It's a fun ride isn't it?


The place I was shooting at is called Black Wing Shooting Center and is really a nice setup. Here's their website if you're interested: Black Wing

They had a large selection of guns to rent, from pistols and revolvers up through a fully automatic KRISS. Their selection of pistols has been fantastic for trying to decide on a gun for myself.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Great advice already given so I will just try and offer some things to consider. I too am a lefty and so from that perspective will give what advice I can. I echo the sentiment that you are on the right track actually shooting some samples before you decide. No better way to figure out what does and does not work for you. What feels and looks good at the gun counter does not necessarily translate to success at the firing line.

Most handguns are set up for RH shooters however it is relatively easy as a lefty to adapt to most models and brands. For me I operate the slide release with the side of my trigger finger if I don't employ the sling shot method and use my middle finger to operate LH mounted magazine releases. Safeties and decockers can be a little more difficult if they are not mounted on both sides of the gun but are doable in most cases. Some examples of decidedly and intentionally LH freindly hand guns would be the Beretta, HK USP and particularily the P30 and P2000/P2000SK and FN's FNP. Of this breed the P2000 is my favorite based on my personal needs.

Something to consider is what type of action you like. Striker fired such as the Glock and M&P, DA/SA such as the Sig, Beretta and most HK's, single action only such as on a 1911, DA only such as on some revolvers, etc. My opinion would echo the recommendation to stick with a single type of trigger pull such as a striker fired Glock. To start out why complicate things. The Beretta 92 your friend recommended and the Glock 19 that caught your eye are prime examples of two very good high quality systems that are completely different other than they are both handguns.

The Glock is as minimal and simple as it gets in as reliable a package as can be had. Good size to weight to capacity ratios. I don't especially like them but thier is no denying thier many qualities. Very safe providing one keeps thier finger off the trigger and carries and transports it in a stiff holster made for it. The 92 is an excellent value, high quality and reliable weapon that employs DA/SA with an ambidexterous safety and decocker. Mag release can be relocated to the RH side. But for carry it is large and heavy compared to others and certainly compared to the Glock. It can be done but many would argue that with so many more size and weight efficient options available its qualites at least as a CCW choice tend to diminish. The system is not hard to master but decidely more involved than a point and shoot striker fired system such as the Glock, XD, M&P, etc.

I'd try as many different samples as you can but given what I've picked up on so far your needs and tastes tend to favor the Glock 19. You could do a lot worse and it is often debated whether one could do better. Off the cuff the Ruger SR9 might be worth a look if you can find one to try. Very similar to the Glock without some of the draw backs (in my opinion) for a lefty. Good luck.


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

Thank for the input, Teufel (or should I say, "Devil Dog"? :mrgreen: )

I'll see if the range has a rental HK or Ruger SR9 when I go back next week. The HK's, though, are pricey and more than I want to spend on my first pistol. But I would be very interested to see how they feel to shoot.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Your welcome. Yes, you cracked my USMC code. :smt1099 Your right the HK's are typically more expensive. I currently have two but I got good deals. New recent production runs are 800 and up. Older still new production runs in the 750's. Has a lot to do with monetary exchange rates between the Euro and the $$. If it's to much look for used or go with a more economical brand that suites you. I like them but I'm not willing to pay 800 to 850 for one either. I'm currently on the hunt for the P2000's baby brother the P2000SK but I'm not going to pay 825 for one which seems to be the typical going rate. I suggested the SR9 only because it is very Glock like from what I have read and gathered from fondling one at the gun counter but with some nice LH freindly features. Cost in the 400's. It looks like a great bargain but I have not shot one. Good luck and let us know how you make out.


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## johnt (Jan 9, 2010)

not as many 92F fans as for glocks thats for sure


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## flieger67 (Dec 15, 2009)

Tuefelhunden said:


> Your welcome. Yes, you cracked my USMC code. :smt1099


I guess I remembered just enough of my high-school German classes... :mrgreen:

As for the Ruger, I'll hopefully be able to rent one when I return the range next week. Although I don't remember all of the pistols that they had for rent, they were well-stocked and I wouldn't be surprised if they had an SR9 in the case. I do know that they are a Ruger (and HK) dealer.


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## JoeInKS (Jan 17, 2010)

The Ruger SR9 is a great value for the money and seems to built like a tank. 

YouTube has a few great reviews on it. Look for Nutnfancy's videos on it. (He loves the Glock 17 the most though)


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