# The Final Blow



## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, Sig has done me very wrong and I do not think they can recover after today. I have already sworn off any new Sigs and released my desire for a P220 Equinox. I don't need any gun _this_ badly. Especially an overpriced hunk of metal they won't stand behind.

My Sig returned this afternoon with no prior warning. I opened the box and took the gun out to see nothing had changed. And there was a form with it. The gunsmith's comments are as follows:



> There is no estimate required for repair since the wear is entirely normal. The hardcoat is still intact - only the color is worn.
> 
> The barrel also shows normal wear for a pistol that has had a substantial number of rounds fired through it.


So if that's the case, Sig owners beware... your gun will begin to implode eventually.

The "wear" on the gun is not normal. I'm not the idiot they think I am. The extractor rod is smashing into the chamber and is cutting away at it. There are visible gashes in the frame. And the gun is shaving metal. With his comments I am forced to believe he didn't even take the gun down, he just looked at what shows when the slide is pulled back, because that all _is_ normal. The wear is also not smooth and normal on the frame. Here are the photos:





































Two Sig Armorers looked at it when it came back, and both agree this is not normal wear on a gun, regardless of how many rounds have gone through it. We looked at the rental P226 and it was in better shape than mine, which says a lot right there. Over the past few weeks I have taken the slides off every Sig handed to me by customers and have seen nothing like this on any of them, regardless of age or amount of rounds through the gun.

I called customer service and the man I dealt with was rude and nasty. He actually yelled at me! And he spoke to me like I was a complete idiot and had no idea what I was talking about. I told him what was happening with the gun isn't normal and I was passed off like I was just being paranoid about some normal finish damage from the slide rubbing on it. I know the discoloration on the barrel and frame are normal. It happens, and I have kept a close eye on it since day one. But the gash on the chamber is not normal, nor are the gashes on the frame or the shaved metal. The Sig Armorers don't think the gun was even taken down.

Get this. He says to me, "You know, the gun does need some time to break in."

"Really? The gun is 4 years old with about 7,000 to 10,000 rounds through it. Exactly how long does it take to break in a Sig?"

His reply: "Yeah? And?"

So we are going into attack mode. I am going to make a few calls tomorrow, first off to our Sig rep. If that doesn't work one of the Sig Armorers is going to call to see if they treat him differently. Either way, I am telling them exactly what I told you, especially about that prick on the phone this afternoon.

And on Thursday I'll be calling Glock for prices. I need a gun I can trust, and obviously my Sig has breathed its last and no one wants to do CPR. So I'll give Glock a go. And I'll make sure I let the customers who look at Sigs know what happened to mine.

Can you tell I am enraged? :smt076 :smt084 :smt091 :smt097 :smt067


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I am sorry to say you are not the first I have heard over the years say Sig Service is no good. Many have said they are more interested in M&P contracts than Joe average. Don't hear it very often but does happen. Good luck.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

I understand they don't treat the police real well, either. Which is just amazing in its own right. 

I knew going in that their service sucked, but I had no idea it was this bad. This is just sad.


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## gdog (May 20, 2006)

Been down the same road.Mine looked like it had been thru a wood chipper.I am easy going but I will not take being treated like crap.Sigs are gone and I feel better.

ed


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## Mini14 (Mar 1, 2007)

A. Call the state Attorney General's office, file a complaint.
B. Buy an XD, Ruger, HK, or Rock Island Armory as the SIG's replacement.


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## Dreadnought (Nov 9, 2006)

Mini14 said:


> A. Call the state Attorney General's office, file a complaint.
> B. Buy an XD, Ruger, HK, or Rock Island Armory as the SIG's replacement.


Adding Beretta to that list wouldn't be a bad idea.

It's a shame when customer service doesn't have the patience to deal with its customers. 
I've worked in specialty retail and had to deal with a lot of "armchair quarterback" types, but I never lost my cool or insulted their intelligence.


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## sniper350 (Jan 6, 2007)

Sucklead,

Sorry to hear about how SIG treated you ............. but that is kind of expected from this company - sad to say.

That's the reason I attempted to fix my GSR 1911, instead of sending it back -SIG is NOT like S&W that will fix any of their guns [no matter the owner] for the life of the weapon.

My SIG p226 is showing signs just like yours - mine was bought in 1985. Chunks are being chewed out of the rail system, amoung other problems.

I have gotten the 1911 bug ....and have found out how easy it is to rebuild the Colt Commander. So I have given up on these other semi-autos. Buy a used Colt 1991A1 and for about $250 in top flight parts, you can build your dream machine - it will out shoot SIG's all day long.

JF.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, there are bad stories for every company. I got super crappy customer service from Glock a couple of years back when I had them install some night sights. Personally, I don't like Glock customer service.

Had good luck with Beretta, but I have heard others complain. HK is good - unfortunately, they only have 4 or 5 people answering the phones all day. So U have to leave your name and number on 1 of the people's answering machines (depending on which one of the 5 the operator sends U to), and then ya gotta wait for them to call back - unless U are lucky enough for them to happen to not be on the phone when U call. Anyway, even though that's a bit of a pain, their service is good.

Get a Walther - S&W service is second to none.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, I will keep all the gun suggestions in mind, but right now purchasing anything is completely out of the question. Which makes this entire situation even worse. Even if I settled on a Glock, it would be a long, long time coming. I owe more money this month (taxes and car insurance) than I will be making. So it will be months before I get back on my feet and even then... the paycheck's not big enough to purchase weapons with and still pay bills. So it will be a long time. When the time arrives, I'll research weapons I may want. I already know some that won't even be considered. :smt083


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## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

That really sucks that your favorite firearm manufacturer has let you down. Mine has but not in customer service(yet). I'd also recommend you look at the affordable and rarely mentioned CZ 75B. It's the best shooting 9mm Luger automatic I've ever fired.


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## urf (Mar 28, 2007)

After experencing metal shavings on 4 separate occasions and than dealing with Sig customer service i just sold it, (Sig 239). Went out bought a Glock and Kel-Tec.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Me and the Sig have been through too much together and I've become far too attached to it. I'd feel better just locking it up in the safe instead of selling it. She's been good to me and survived a lot of crazy stuff. And I'm sure she'd be fine again if someone over at Sig would bother to even remove the slide to see what the problem is.


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## Dreadnought (Nov 9, 2006)

SuckLead said:


> Me and the Sig have been through too much together and I've become far too attached to it. I'd feel better just locking it up in the safe instead of selling it. She's been good to me and survived a lot of crazy stuff. And I'm sure she'd be fine again if someone over at Sig would bother to even remove the slide to see what the problem is.


Maybe you could send it back, but disassembled this time?


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

I was considering doing that, but with those little tiny colored markers by the damage. I think the next customer who buys a Ruger I may ask them if I can have the dots all over the gun so I can use them.


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## standerson (Sep 22, 2006)

May I suggest posting this over in Sigforum? There are a couple of people there who can make things happen at Sig.

Good luck.


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## SCM67 (Oct 18, 2006)

*You have got to be kidding!*

It is an aluminum frame with 4,000 to 7,000 rounds of 40 cal.through it! Has the gun ever failed? All of my sigs have a few nicks in them too! That is because I shoot the hell out of them and don't break them down after every session.

I don't think it is a sig problem either.

Go ahead and trade it for a Glock!

BTW! It is obvious from the bottom of the chamber in the your first picture that you have that you have run some BS ammo through it! Wolf has probably caused all of your damage.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

SCM67 said:


> It is an aluminum frame with 4,000 to 7,000 rounds of 40 cal.through it! Has the gun ever failed? All of my sigs have a few nicks in them too! That is because I shoot the hell out of them and don't break them down after every session. But I wouldn't even consider sending a gun back for that. I bet the magwell looks the same. It is an aluminum and stainless gun. Both are subject to wear! If you want a gun that doesn't wear then don't shoot it or handle it for that matter!
> 
> I don't think it is a sig problem either. And I understand the armorers / SIG's response. I imagine he has been repairing and looking at (ABUSED!) guns day in day out for years! Just to have unhappy cutomers calling sig with stupid complaints about a used gun looking used! No matter what he does short of sending them a brand new gun that he probably can't afford either!
> 
> ...


Sorry, I don't use Wolf. And I'm sorry, but you seem to work for Sig, too. Why you're jumping all over me like this is beyond me.

My friend, if the ejector is suppossed to cut slices into the barrel like that then I stand corrected (the discoloration of the frame is not in question, it's the holes in the frame and the ejector smashing into barrel until it bends when the slide is closed; if that's normal for your guns than you're doing something wrong). That hasn't happened on the range rental Sigs where I work and those have been cleaned maybe once in two years. And you should see some of the ammo that was run through those. Hasn't happened to my other gun, either.

So far two Sig Armorers and a gunsmith don't agree with you. I'm not real sure what it is I did today to piss you off, but you may want to take that tone somewhere else.

BTW... save your typing finger. I can't see your messages anymore. I put up with enough bull from people like you every day that I'm not putting up with it in here, too. Have your opinions, but try delivering them better. This post wasn't a personal attack on you.


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## Nastynewt (Jan 22, 2007)

sucklead I hope you get the Sig fixed they are great guns.
My P226 is in retirement for the moment as i have a new XD9 and two new AK-47's to play with. My P226 was used for 18 years and don't show the wear yours does and as for as ammo Ive shot any 9MM ammo in the P226 I could find.
Good luck Sucklead


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Nastynewt said:


> sucklead I hope you get the Sig fixed they are great guns.
> My P226 is in retirement for the moment as i have a new XD9 and two new AK-47's to play with. My P226 was used for 18 years and don't show the wear yours does and as for as ammo Ive shot any 9MM ammo in the P226 I could find.
> Good luck Sucklead


It will get fixed one day, one way or another. Sig is not standing behind their product, I tried to go through our rep and that doesn't seem to have worked, either. Someone suggested having a gunsmith fix it locally and sending Sig the bill, but my problem with that is that will cause a lot of grief for a good gunsmith who doesn't deserve that, so I won't go that route. Right now she is on an emergency use only stand. I hate to admit it, but the gun means too much to me to get rid of it. I just won't be getting the Sigs I had wanted. That P220 Equinox is a real nice gun, but I won't go through this again.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

*The BBB*

Someone on another forum suggested contacting the BBB about this issue, but I decided to search the BBB first. Apparently, SigArms "has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to an unanswered complaint. However the business has resolved most complaints presented to the bureau." It's actually more than one.

Unanswered complaint?

Repair Issues

No Response 
BBB Definition: No Response - The company failed to respond to the complaint.	
1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.

Well, isn't that something?

http://www.concord.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=3005510


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## Nra-Life-Member (Mar 16, 2007)

I enjoy Sigs.. But I am enjoying H&K even more.. 

On that note - My P226 has more rounds then I can count. Runs like a champ!


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## jblaze725 (Mar 19, 2007)

Thats ashamed because I really liked Sig and was hoping to save up for one in the near future, but I cant see myself spending all that money on a new gun to possibly have to go through what youre going through. Hopefully they can right this situation. Sad to see a company with a great product really brought down by such horrible customer service.


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## SCM67 (Oct 18, 2006)

*I'm sorry eveyone! But I have to speak my mind!*

Excuse me for saying it was probably Wolf ammo. I was mistaken!
No, I don't work for sig.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

jblaze725 said:


> Thats ashamed because I really liked Sig and was hoping to save up for one in the near future, but I cant see myself spending all that money on a new gun to possibly have to go through what youre going through. Hopefully they can right this situation. Sad to see a company with a great product really brought down by such horrible customer service.


It is ashame. I really love my Sig and still cannot help suggesting them as an option to customers. But I also feel compelled to give them fair warning about their customer service. Past that, it is up to them. Sig makes a great product and most of the time you won't even have to worry about sending the gun back to get repaired. But now I am leary about the possibility of having to send one back. Best I can say is go for it and buy one. But do consider using your own gunsmith instead of having to send it back for repair if you are not military or law enforcement.


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## SigZagger (Aug 16, 2006)

I know exactly how frustrated you are right now. I had simular experiences with new S&W auto's. Did exactly as instructed. In short, I wrote a respectfully worded letter to the president. Got no reply. I tried quality control and the production manager. Three letters...not one reply. As a result, I traded away the Smith's and purchased an used Sig 229. My frame rails look simular to your photos. But it was manufactured in 1996 and is still very reliable and one of my favorites. The barrel photo is disturbing. The way I handled my personal situation with S&W was I realized I was just one little guy from the midwest who meant nothing to a hugh firearm manufacturer. So, I elected to spend my money elsewhere. Their are many quality firearm brands. Write off Sig if you wish and pick another. Besides Sigsauer, I found my new XD9 to be much better than any Smith. Good luck.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

I can't help but still like them. It's been ingrained, I think. LOL! I still catch myself fondling them at work, but I can't bring myself to buy one knowing this is how it will be if something odd happens.

As for the frame, I wouldn't have paid it any mind if the slide wasn't catching on those little cuts in the frame. You can even hear when it goes over them. Which is what bothers me a lot. My main concern, however, is that barrel. And the gunsmith who inspected it had the same concern. The accuracy has been slipping just a touch (had several better shooters than myself try it out and they all agreed) and that gash in the barrel was a sudden appearance. It just appeared after 50 rounds. That bothers me a lot.


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## SigZagger (Aug 16, 2006)

You've mentioned two Sig armorers looked at the gun and you handle Sigs at work. Do you work at a gun store? If so, can't the armorers give you a contact person or some assistance for obtaining a new barrel. If you send the barrel photo to the right person, I'd have to believe something will be done. Maybe you should get some advice from Bruce Gray on the Sig Forum. Send the photos to him via email.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Yes, I do work in a gun shop. I was dealing with customer service than started dealing directly with our Sig rep. The photos I had here are in the mailboxes of at least six people at Sig. And I get a new barrel for a decent price, but what's the point if the extractor is still going to smash into it?


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## scorpiusdeus (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm always heart broken to hear of problems with a Sig. I'm an uberfanboy. That having been said, I had a smaller issue recently, BUT Sigarms CS took care of me right away. 

It sounds like maybe the rep is the problem and not the company.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

scorpiusdeus said:


> I'm always heart broken to hear of problems with a Sig. I'm an uberfanboy. That having been said, I had a smaller issue recently, BUT Sigarms CS took care of me right away.
> 
> It sounds like maybe the rep is the problem and not the company.


Oh, I was up there in uberfangirl land. Most of our customers who didn't know my name refered to me as Sig girl.

Actually, I wanted to mention this, too. I had a bizarre happening today. One of our Sigs for sale had a major malfunction today. A customer was looking at it and the slide wouldn't open. It was just stuck. I got it unstuck but the slide kept catching. I sent it to the warehouse for return because of this. Would you believe it was the only P226 40S&W we had out for sale? I just found it really ironic. It caught my attention, though, because it was catching in exactly the same spot mine does, only this one was to a much worse extreme. And this one is unfired (except at the Sig factory) brand new in the box. Odd.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, I got a response back from my BBB complaint to Sig, nothing has changed. The gun's going into the scrap heap for now because apparently two gun smiths are incorrect. I had a gun smith take a look at it today and he offered me money for it for parts. Might take him up on the offer. I don't see the gun as being safe at all and neither do the gun smiths. I may suit up and shoot the living hell out of it until the extractor rips off over time and go from there. Either way, I'll make sure to document the size of the gash on the barrel. My Sig days are over. It was nice while it lasted. Glock, here I come.


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## SigZagger (Aug 16, 2006)

SuckLead said:


> My Sig days are over.


What will you tell potential Sig buyers now?


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## scorpiusdeus (Feb 7, 2007)

SigZagger said:


> What will you tell potential Sig buyers now?


Got Milk?


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

SigZagger said:


> What will you tell potential Sig buyers now?


That hasn't been a problem. There are plenty of guns I don't like for whatever reason, I'm just honest. I think Sig makes a good weapon, and I tell them that, and I suggest they try shooting a few on the range. But I do let them know that their customer service is questionable. Same I do for any company. If one company seems to have really good customer service, I tell them what we see from our side. Same for the bad. And Sig isn't the only one with bad customer service, not by a long shot. I don't have a huge issue with the gun itself, and I tell people that. It's been a very good weapon for me and it did it's job when it was most important. One day it will come back. My only issue is with the CS. And there is one other gun company I won't buy from for the same reason, and they seem to be possibly worse. When customers ask, I tell them honestly without all the gorey details. If they buy, I sell with a smile and do what I can to assist them with it. It's my job. I'm just not Sig crazy like I used to be. LOL! Used to tell everyone about Sigs... now they're just another gun in the case.


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## MAN WITH A GUN (May 24, 2007)

*Consumer Complaints*

Each State has a CONSUMER PROTECTION area, usually located at the State Capitol. Each has a website and will take your complaints.

In GA, where I am, this gets stuff moving and FAST. They call up the company and let them know there is a problem and THEY should tend to it NOW. Nothing like BIG BROTHER getting into the fray.

Give it a try. It's free and it just might work for you. Hope so. :mrgreen:


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