# Defensive ammo in a 1911?



## numbertwo

When I picked up my 1911 at the LGS I asked about any defensive ammo in .45 and the associate that was helping me advised me to not use defensive ammo in my 1911 because 1911 weren't made to use the flatter hollow point ammo and to only be used with ball ammo.

While I'm sure defensive ammo will cycle successfully, is it recommending due to this ^^?? What brand of defensive ammo are you all using with your 1911s?


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## ponzer04

My Colt will eat anything I put in it so far. My Sig 1911 will do most flat nosed ammo better than round nose ball ammo I load a little to long. If you want round profiled defensive ammo try Federal Premium Guard Dog, Shooting Federal Guard Dog .45 Expansion test - YouTube. I have hydo shoks in mine right now. Also check out POW"r"ball ammo that has a round profile.

On of the guys that shoots USPSA with me has a Springfield RO and he shoots Semi wadcutters and has no ammo related issues with it.

Good luck with your search.


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## shaolin

I would use any of the 230 grain HP for defense


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## Steve M1911A1

Any reasonably good gunsmith can "tweak" a 1911, so that it'll feed anything.
It has to do with a smooth feed ramp and well-adjusted magazine feed lips.
If yours doesn't reliably feed your chosen ammunition, take the gun, your magazines, and the chosen cartridges to a good pistolsmith, and ask him to make all three fit together properly.
(It isn't a job for an amateur.)

Example: My two competition 1911s will feed empty cases from any G.I. magazine. (That's supposed to be impossible.)


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## paratrooper

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Any reasonably good gunsmith can "tweak" a 1911, so that it'll feed anything.
> It has to do with a smooth feed ramp and well-adjusted magazine feed lips.
> If yours doesn't reliably feed your chosen ammunition, take the gun, your magazines, and the chosen cartridges to a good pistolsmith, and ask him to make all three fit together properly.
> (It isn't a job for an amateur.)
> 
> Example: My two competition 1911s will feed empty cases from any G.I. magazine. (That's supposed to be impossible.)


Not much recoil I bet...........:mrgreen:


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## qwiksdraw

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...
> Example: My two competition 1911s will feed empty cases from any G.I. magazine. (That's supposed to be impossible.)


Do you still have to clean your gun after doing this?


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## pic

numbertwo said:


> When I picked up my 1911 at the LGS I asked about any defensive ammo in .45 and the associate that was helping me advised me to not use defensive ammo in my 1911 because 1911 weren't made to use the flatter hollow point ammo and to only be used with ball ammo.
> 
> While I'm sure defensive ammo will cycle successfully, is it recommending due to this ^^?? What brand of defensive ammo are you all using with your 1911s?


How old was the salesman?
Hardball ammo for the 45 auto was always recommended years ago.
It is still a good reliability feed suggestion. There might be some info out there if googled. I remember using leadball ammo for target loads .Today's target loads look somewhat flat in profile.


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## ponzer04

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Example: My two competition 1911s will feed empty cases from any G.I. magazine. (That's supposed to be impossible.)


What is so hard about a 1911 doing this? both of mine do this and one is stock from SIG.


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## rex

It isn't normal for a 1911 to feed empty cases but some do.It's cool when they do because it will generally feed aggressive hollowpoints like Speer's 200gr "flying ashtray",if you can feed that bullet anything will feed for the most part.

The major factors you need to feed a good hollowpoint is a properly cut frame ramp (Kimber had an issue with that),the 1/32" barrel underhang on the frameramp,and a throated barrel.Most guns produced today have the barrel throated,the specs on the rest vary sometimes.The release point of the mags are important also.As Steve refered to,original mags need tweaked often,but most aftermarket mags have an earlier release to help prevent the edge of the bullet from digging in on feeding.Wilson was the first to do this,and they work well,but they also don't control the round.Basically they throw the round up and rely on the extractor to grab it and control it.Most of the time it works,but if the spring starts to get weak the round can "float on release and get ahead of the extractor.While they often feed still,it raises hell with the extractor having to snap over the rim.A sign of this is your extractor losing tension shortly after it's been adjusted.If it isn't a Wilson type release point on the lips,the other causes are a worn out mag spring or oil on the follower/lips or lack of dimpled follower.Undimpled followers work just fine if the gun is sprung properly on the mainspring and recoil spring,but not all are.


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## Stengun

Howdy,


Steve M1911A1 said:


> Example: My two competition 1911s will feed empty cases from any G.I. magazine. (That's supposed to be impossible.)


My Norinco will chamber ANYTHING that you can stuff in the magazine.

For defensive ammo use any JHP ammo available to you. Down through the years I have carried everything from 185gr JHP, to 230gr +P, to the .45 Super 230gr JHP which would be considered a +P+ or hotter load, to plain 230gr ball ammo while in the military.

No matter what type of ammo I was carry in a .45acp I never felt undergunned like I do when I carry a 9mm.

Paul


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## Overkill0084

numbertwo said:


> When I picked up my 1911 at the LGS I asked about any defensive ammo in .45 and the associate that was helping me advised me to not use defensive ammo in my 1911 because 1911 weren't made to use the flatter hollow point ammo and to only be used with ball ammo.
> 
> While I'm sure defensive ammo will cycle successfully, is it recommending due to this ^^?? What brand of defensive ammo are you all using with your 1911s?


The sales associate is is stuck in the 50s or 60s. Back when people were turning Dad's GI pistols into match guns, there were feed issues with match ammo. Most modern 1911s will feed most available ammo. While there can be the odd exception, modern HP SD ammo has been designed to feed well. Look at some, they are all fairly round in shape. Similarly, most modern 1911s are manufactured with more than simply RN ammo in mind. Match guns are expected to function correctly with SWC ammo. A modern JHP SD round isn't going to pose much of a challenge.

That said, any SD ammo you purchase must still be checked to ensure that they do, in fact, feed & function correctly.

I carry Winchester Ranger T, 230 gr JHPs in my Dan Wesson CCO. They run just as good as RN practice ammo for me.


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## chuckscap

230g Golden Saber Bondeds.


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## rex

Gold Dots are another good performer and feeder.I've been carrying Win PDX bonded fpr a while and have had no problem with those.Occasionally I hear of the Sabres not being reliable but it's usually traced back to the gun's problem.

The bullets that cause problems in 1911s are the ones with huge HP openings and those more of a truncated cone with HP,the edge of the cavity sometimes hangs up.You wouldn't think they would but do.Speer's old 200gr "flying ashtray" was notorious for it but if it did feed you could pretty much expect anything,even an empty case,to feed.

If your extractor is tuned and have good mags,feeding can be improved if you have hitches.The biggest problem is the feedramp,they aren't always right but work.If the bottom of the ramp isn't to the bottom of the slidestop window the ramp was undercut,seen quite a few.Highly polishing them is something top smiths do for a reason,it helps.Polishing the breechface also helps,the easier the round can slide into place the better.Most barrels are throated now but 2 other problems pop up.One is the edge of the chamber and ramp hasn't been broke,it needs to be rounded but without exposing more unsupported case.The bottom of the hood should also have a 45degree chamfer roughly 1/2 the hood thickness.The other is a 3 point jamb.The cause is overcut lower lugs that allow the barrel to move foward when the round hits the barrel.Most barrels are overcut here to avoid barrel bump,except Kimber.Most are quite serviceable but some just get cut too much,whereas Kimber doesn't go far enough.I've seen Kimbers crash the lugs into the slidestop so much it flattens out the radius of the lug and peens material into the link opening.I suppose one day they'll figure out how to properly build a 1911.

One more rarer problem is a low sitting mag.It isn't uncommon for the first few rounds to nosedive feeding,and a low sitting mag will dump it into the bottom of the ramp cut,really bad when the ramp is shallow to begin with.If it isn;t an issue with the slot in the mag,which it normally isn't,usually the release shelf is cast or machined too low or the frame hole is just off enough.George at EGW designed a release that holds the mag .020" higher to cure this and is the easiest and cheapest cure.


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## flugzeug

There is nothing wrong with FMJ's. Raise your hand if you wouldn't mind getting hit by a 230 gr. railroad train. 

For defensive use, I use Speer Gold Dot 230 gr. HP's & Lawman the rest of the time.


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## pic

flugzeug said:


> There is nothing wrong with FMJ's. Raise your hand if you wouldn't mind getting hit by a 230 gr. railroad train.
> 
> For defensive use, I use Speer Gold Dot 230 gr. HP's & Lawman the rest of the time.


I actually like the fmj 45acp, greater penetration then a hollow point. Better feeding reliability.Also I f there was a damaged hollow point, in your mag, it might cause a failure. people who use hollow points for self defense should examine the bullet as they would the rest of the gun.
Earlier times it was recommended to use hardball ammo in all semi auto's, they were just better feeders.

Back in the 70's early 80's a very lot, of people who carried , carried revolvers, we just did not trust the autofeeders. TODAY is different.
My first auto carry was a colt government I bought in the early 80"s. never an issue. I trusted that auto feeder. My buddies were buying them auto feeders
the smith n Wesson model 39/59 9mm, beretta 92 double stack,, here in ny was ok, imagine that, until the liberals started making laws.( now there telling what kind of spaghetti not to eat, different subject ) Da/Sa was becoming popular in an auto. Everyone seemed to really like that option in a self defense handgun.


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## Owyhee

On my 9mm CC SA XDS I try to find the best expanding bullet available to make up for the size (I like Hornaday's 134 grain Critical Duty) But the 45 loaded with 230 grain ball is an entirely different animal. I've talked to some Korean War vets who described the effect a .45 slug had on a charging Chinaman. I'm pretty comfortable with the standard FMJ.



flugzeug said:


> There is nothing wrong with FMJ's. Raise your hand if you wouldn't mind getting hit by a 230 gr. railroad train.
> 
> For defensive use, I use Speer Gold Dot 230 gr. HP's & Lawman the rest of the time.


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## shaolin

The 230 Hydra Shoks work really well and so do the Gold Dots. Shoot 3 mags through your gun and if you get 1 FTF then look for something else. I personally would shoot more but that would give you an idea if your gun will work with the given ammo. I have the Corbon Powerball and I use them at home because I don't want to go through somebody and a wall too. A mozambique drill will make anybody fall.


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## Shadetree

Federal HST 230gr JHP are a good choice. Check out TNOutdoors9 on youtube and look at his test of the HST.


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## glockman99

I use this load in my RIA .45:









I have also installed a Wolff 18.5 lb. recoil spring set in my pistol to help handle the slightly sharper recoil from the +P load.


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## BigHead

*The 1911 Is Able To Shoot HP And +P.*



numbertwo said:


> When I picked up my 1911 at the LGS I asked about any defensive ammo in .45 and the associate that was helping me advised me to not use defensive ammo in my 1911 because 1911 weren't made to use the flatter hollow point ammo and to only be used with ball ammo.
> 
> While I'm sure defensive ammo will cycle successfully, is it recommending due to this ^^?? What brand of defensive ammo are you all using with your 1911s?


I started using SilverTip 185 grain right out of the chute, in my Colt 1911 .45 Auto. That was 35 years ago, and with no troubles. Heck now-a-days, the choices are multiplied & better. The guy was yammering, and doesn't know current realities.

Try something like this, the Golden Saber, it has about 530 foot pounds of ME. And if you fire it regularly, install an 18 pound recoil spring from Wolff.


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## pic

I like hardball in a 45 auto, not only for reliability, but also for penetrating power. 

We all know there isn't much penetrating power in a 45 acp. 
But my thought is ,,, a hardball 45 will be more predictable for my own results , penetrations.

If you would like to use these hollow scientific engineered expanding rounds that's fine also.
Same opinion on the 9mm, thanks pic


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## Owyhee

I've talked to Korean War vets who described what a 45 Auto does when it hits somebody -- anywhere. They were using military FMJ ammo. If it can stop a charging Chinaman dead in his tracks it's good enough for me.


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## bluedog46

When I got my ATI i found they were not really meant for holoow points. My colt 1911 has had much less issues. Hornady Crit defense will work in the various 1911 I have tried. Guard dog will often work and Corbon. The thing is say the winchester hollow points you get at say walmart often has too big an opening and jams things from what I have seen. Lots of guys get their feed ramps polished and some guys i know has something called throated.


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## Spike12

I'm on my 3rd 1911 as my carry weapon... I start them out for break in and reliability testing with 240g FMJ. I never draw any conclusions about the gun until they're 100% reliable with that stuff.

Then I start them with my CCW ammo. Right now that is 200g Golden Sabre. With 200g I can regain control for followup shots. Golden Sabre has a good reputation and that's the best you can hope for in defensive ammo. EVERYBODY'S ammo looks GREAT in their own tests.

So why Golden Sabre? I KNOW my gun works with it. Ya, maybe another defensive ammo would give me an extra .5 inches of stab but I KNOW my gun will work and that trumps everything else.

After I've used up my Golden Sabre I'll half to look around, maybe Critical Defense_ if it works_. BUT FTX based ammo has a problem: FTX bullets are flat sided. I've had two 1911's (3") that just would NOT work with FTX based ammo.

So I'll probably test another brand or two. But reliability with bullets on target trumps any magic/voodoo bullet design every time.


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## Steve M1911A1

Owyhee said:


> I've talked to Korean War vets who described what a 45 Auto does when it hits somebody -- anywhere. They were using military FMJ ammo. If it can stop a charging Chinaman dead in his tracks it's good enough for me.


Instead of swallowing the tall tales you've heard whole and uncritically, you might find it useful and instructive to read the real results of real shooting incidents.
Look for information under the bylines of Massad Ayoob and Marvin Fackler, and for the Thompson-LaGarde Tests.

When I was a kid, I, too, was told that "a hit anywhere with a .45, even on the arm, will stop someone in his tracks, and also probably bowl him over."
Well, it just isn't so.

FMJ .45 hits, anywhere, will not "stop a charging Chinaman dead in his tracks."
Or anybody else, for that matter.

If you need a sure and quick stop, you need to make accurate upper-body hits.
And sometimes, even that doesn't work...even with .45 bullets.


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## miketx60

My 1911 eats anything. I carry 200 grain Hornady XTP hp's.


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## Desertrat

Right on Steve,.....I get awful tired of the tales of "lightning bolt hits, that bowl a man over....blah blah blah." Real world
data is what is required on any type of stopping power. Knowledge is power.


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## miketx60

Desertrat said:


> Right on Steve,.....I get awful tired of the tales of "lightning bolt hits, that bowl a man over....blah blah blah." Real world
> data is what is required on any type of stopping power. Knowledge is power.


I was in Academy one day and asked the clerk if he had any Cor-Bon 200 gr. 45 acp. He said no, but he pulled out a box of HydroShoks (sp) and told me to buy these because they were the best defensive round ever! I looked at him and said, "Oh yeah? How many people have you shot with them?" We didn't talk much after that, although he did say he would never shoot anybody.


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## joepeat

Owyhee said:


> I've talked to Korean War vets who described what a 45 Auto does when it hits somebody -- anywhere. They were using military FMJ ammo. If it can stop a charging Chinaman dead in his tracks it's good enough for me.


Must've been a beautiful sight. Nothing better than a dead *****.


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## desertman

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Instead of swallowing the tall tales you've heard whole and uncritically, you might find it useful and instructive to read the real results of real shooting incidents.
> Look for information under the bylines of Massad Ayoob and Marvin Fackler, and for the Thompson-LaGarde Tests.
> 
> When I was a kid, I, too, was told that "a hit anywhere with a .45, even on the arm, will stop someone in his tracks, and also probably bowl him over."
> Well, it just isn't so.
> 
> *FMJ .45 hits, anywhere, will not "stop a charging Chinaman dead in his tracks."
> Or anybody else, for that matter.*
> 
> If you need a sure and quick stop, you need to make accurate upper-body hits.
> And sometimes, even that doesn't work...even with .45 bullets.


Especially if someone is all doped up on whatever. They may not even realize that they were hit and still have enough time to keep coming at you.


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## dakota1911

I use 230gr HPs usually from Winchester in my Colt Commander. It is also fine with 200gr cast SWC for range time.


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## 1911crazy

As my wife was giving birth to my third child the ER was below our room. The nurse rushed in and looked out the window. They brought in a man who was gutt shot with a 1911/45acp five times. I read in the newspaper a day after he lived. I got those Speer 200gr soup bowl sized jhp bullets and loaded them to the max for my 1911 ccw.


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## maddog

Good ole hardball.....


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## Spike12

I"ve fed the 3 full size 1911's I've owned ever type of bullet I could find, lead, semi wad, FJM, XTP, Ball, etc. and they all ate them just fine. My 4" Commander that I carry hasn't been offered the same menu but worked just fine with the Remington Golden Sabre and XTP home loads just fine too.

The ONLY problems I've ever had was with a pair of 3" 1911's who didn't like XTP bullets. I think it was the XTP's flat sides that kept hanging up.

_So to the OP: Never listen to that guy in the gun shop again. _


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## just for fun

paratrooper said:


> Not much recoil I bet...........:mrgreen:


 granted!but very hard to score hits!!


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## otasan56

I would use Corbon 185gr JHP. I goes 1150 FPS out of an M1911.


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## nikrnic66

I may try the Corbon 185, I tested 6 or 7 different brands in my LW Commander and the Corbon 165 was just too snappy with marginal accuracy, I was surprised.. Winchester Silvertip worked good but the best and most accurate has been old Supervel 190gr Jhp. There is no guaranteed super bullet that's works in all, you have to try and find what works best in yours.









Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## pic

nikrnic66 said:


> I may try the Corbon 185, I tested 6 or 7 different brands in my LW Commander and the Corbon 165 was just too snappy with marginal accuracy, I was surprised.. Winchester Silvertip worked good but the best and most accurate has been old Supervel 190gr Jhp. There is no guaranteed super bullet that's works in all, you have to try and find what works best in yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


The lighter grain 165 defense bullet , will have a quick snappy feel.


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## BigHead

Zombie Post.


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## denner

Overkill0084 said:


> The sales associate is is stuck in the 50s or 60s. Back when people were turning Dad's GI pistols into match guns, there were feed issues with match ammo. Most modern 1911s will feed most available ammo. While there can be the odd exception, modern HP SD ammo has been designed to feed well. Look at some, they are all fairly round in shape. Similarly, most modern 1911s are manufactured with more than simply RN ammo in mind. Match guns are expected to function correctly with SWC ammo. A modern JHP SD round isn't going to pose much of a challenge.
> 
> That said, any SD ammo you purchase must still be checked to ensure that they do, in fact, feed & function correctly.
> 
> I carry Winchester Ranger T, 230 gr JHPs in my Dan Wesson CCO. They run just as good as RN practice ammo for me.


Yep, what he said😀


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## LostinTexas

BigHead said:


> *The 1911 Is Able To Shoot HP And +P.*
> 
> View attachment 1454


My preferred carry when I carried a 1911. Never has a hiccup, but was a little stout out of an Officers Model.
Still very manageable and it stayed a favorite for a lot of years.
Counter clerks at gun stores can be less than informative. I heard a guy at Academy tell a man to cut his shotgun barrel to 14 inches one day. I turned around and the guy behind me had the same look I figure I had on my face.
The clerk was a white haired gent, so people probably listened to him.
I got to know the supervisor over the Shooting Counter over time. She is young, bright, and very knowledgeable. She didn't see the humor in the statement, but since it was after the fact and both of us that heard it weren't there, she had to take it with a grain, and hopefully put the guy on the radar. I haven't been back in the year since that happened. Nothing against them, it is just a long and special trip to the store.
The 1911 may have been designed for ball ammo, HP didn't really live in everyday life at the time, but that doesn't mean it won't and doesn't perform remarkably with HP. On the other hand, the 230 grain ball ammo does somthing that most pistol rounds don't. It tumbles. Tumble isn't as reliable as expanding, but it is a great round.
Happy Shopping


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## paper2punch

This topic has been ongoing for 8 years on this string of replies and it's chock full of really good input for anyone shooting a 1911 or any .45 autoloader. My Kimber reacts differently from my Glock G36 , but both of them have had loading issues that ended up being simple fixes. Any round that's not a half caliber ellipse or 1/2E (round nose, no meplat, no lip at the tangent), was unloved by my Glock. I swaged some 3/4 E softballs and had to add .020" to the overall length in order to get them to "skip" off the ramp early enough to get the nose into the chamber edge before being pinched. Using a steep truncated cone semi-wadcutter required the same treatment for the Kimber, but not so in the Glock. The most accurate load for the Kimber is a 182gn. 3/4E LRN. The Glock seems to love the truncated cone at about 205gn. In any case the .45 (no pun intended) properly loaded and placed will stop what you need it to. Unless you're trying to stop the shooting budget from bleeding to death these days!


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## mroland40330

flugzeug said:


> There is nothing wrong with FMJ's. Raise your hand if you wouldn't mind getting hit by a 230 gr. railroad train.
> 
> For defensive use, I use Speer Gold Dot 230 gr. HP's & Lawman the rest of the time.


I work in the "Correctional" Industry.
Once asked my SGT why he prefered his 1911 over the Glocks issued. He Pointed to D Wing and said 62 inmates of which at least 55 have been shot with a 9mm, and are still alive to Brag about it.


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