# Sig Sauer Offering ‘Voluntary Upgrades’ For P320 Pistols



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2017/08/08/sig-sauer-offering-voluntary-upgrades-p320-pistols/


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

For those who don't own SIG P320s, and for those who do but have been living under a rock for the last 2 weeks, this is an issue that has flared up like a bonfire quite recently. A couple of weeks ago, the Dallas PD circulated an email indicating that SIG Sauer had identified a "defect" in the P320 that rendered it liable to discharge when dropped. Although the Dallas PD does not issue the P320 (they do another SIG) a number of DPD officers were carrying privately acquired P320s and the department indicated that they would need to switch to another pistol.

This led to rampant speculation that a member or members of the DPD had experienced ADs with dropped P320s. That proved to be false which was acknowledged by the DPD. Also SIG indicated they had never contacted the DPD regarding a "defect" or "safety issue". Apparently, the email originated when an officer at the department read a warning appearing in the P320 manual that stated "any firearm can fire if dropped". That same warning also appears in manuals for the P250 and classic P-series SIGs, including the one issued by the department (which was not recalled).

Ron Cohen, CEO of SIG, wrote a press release indicating that there had been "zero (0) reports of drop-related accidental discharges IN THE COMMERCIAL MARKET". Bruce Gray, who had been instrumental in the development and testing of the P320, went on record saying the Dallas PD issue was the result of poor communication, that there had been no ADs and the the thoroughly tested P320 was perfectly drop safe.

So it looked as if the whole thing had been a lot of smoke without so much as a burning ember. But the whole bruhaha prompted others to drop test the P320. About three or four days ago, Andrew Touhy of Omaha Outdoors posted this video and the results of his drop tests and announced on that basis that Omaha Outdoors was suspending sales of the P320 (note that all of these videos are carried out using a primed cartridge without powder or projectile, which is why the slides do not cycle):

http://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/sig-sauer-p320-fails-drop-test/

Then came this video from The Truth about Guns:






These videos pretty much lit up the various pistol forums and led to other P320 owners conducting their own drop tests, a couple of which are shown here:






To my knowledge, Bruce Gray has yet to respond to these latest video revelations. Yesterday, the Connecticut Law Tribune reported a civil complaint served by a member of the Stamford CT police department on SIG Sauer claiming 6 million in damages from a gunshot wound to the leg that he had sustained back in January when his holstered P320 dropped to the pavement and discharged. Apparently, SIG had been aware of this incident for some time as the complaint was only filed after an attempt to reach a settlement with SIG failed.

http://www.ctlawtribune.com/id=1202...ol-Sues-Gunmaker-Sig-Sauer?mcode=0&curindex=0

Obviously, pressure has been building on SIG to do something over the last couple of days. The official press release from SIG regarding the "voluntary trigger upgrade" was just issued this morning:

http://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-issues-voluntary-upgrade-p320-pistol/


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

More info here:

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/08/0...-unaffected-announces-voluntary-p320-upgrade/


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pblanc said:


> For those who don't own SIG P320s, and for those who do but have been living under a rock for the last 2 weeks, this is an issue that has flared up like a bonfire quite recently.
> http://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-issues-voluntary-upgrade-p320-pistol/


Although I haven't been living under a rock for the past two weeks. This is the first I've heard of this. I've got a P320 and will not carry or use this pistol based on those drop tests. Thanks for sharing this.


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## SigCarry1956. (Aug 7, 2017)

It will be interesting to watch this play out and I may be alone but I'm glad I got my P320cRX before attorneys take over trigger jobs.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I have two P320s. The P320 is a pistol that I find very ergonomic, easy to shoot, accurate, reliable, and forgiving. I have recommended it to others quite a few times.

I do not intend to get rid of my P320s and I will likely wait to see what the details of the "voluntary upgrade, safety enhancement" involve and how it affects trigger function. I agree that the odds of dropping the P320 so that it lands "just so" to produce a discharge (muzzle upwards at 30 degrees off vertical) are probably pretty small. But I do regard this to be a significant issue and if SIG offers to make the modification at their expense, and others do not report any degradation of trigger function, I will be sending my pistols in.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pblanc said:


> I have two P320s. The P320 is a pistol that I find very ergonomic, easy to shoot, accurate, reliable, and forgiving. I have recommended it to others quite a few times.
> 
> I do not intend to get rid of my P320s and I will likely wait to see what the details of the "voluntary upgrade, safety enhancement" involve and how it affects trigger function. I agree that the odds of dropping the P320 so that it lands "just so" to produce a discharge (muzzle upwards at 30 degrees off vertical) are probably pretty small. But I do regard this to be a significant issue and if SIG offers to make the modification at their expense, and others do not report any degradation of trigger function, I will be sending my pistols in.


I'm hoping that they'll just send out a new trigger to replace the old one rather than sending the FCU (fire control unit) in. Or at least let people have the option of replacing it themselves. Replacing just the trigger is an easy job on the P320. All you have to do is dis-connect the trigger bar spring and then remove the trigger and bar. The whole job should take less than 10 minutes. If you do have to send the FCU back, God only knows how many others will have been sent back for repairs not to mention recalling those that have not been sold yet and those that haven't yet left the factory. If the P320 is your only gun you may not have it for quite some time. At any rate they all should be fixed as this is an accident waiting to happen regardless of how remote the chances of having it are. People who are currently carrying them should stop carrying them immediately.

The problem seems to be the physical weight of the trigger not the pull weight. By all indications the new triggers will be of a lighter weight material or they may incorporate a trigger safety similar to a Glock. All we can do is wait and see. I called Sig and they wouldn't give me any information other than they will be making an announcement on Monday 8/14/17.

Indeed the P320 is a great gun for the reasons you've stated. It's a shame this had to happen but I have no doubt that Sig one way or another will rectify the problem. I don't think that they'll have any other choice?

I was just at my local gun store yesterday and when I told them of the problem it was the first they had ever heard of it.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

SigCarry1956. said:


> It will be interesting to watch this play out and I may be alone but I'm glad I got my P320cRX before attorneys take over trigger jobs.


I don't know about that but if you carry that gun and it falls out of your holster or even accidentally drop it. You may need an attorney yourself.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

desertman said:


> I'm hoping that they'll just send out a new trigger to replace the old one rather than sending the FCU (fire control unit) in. Or at least let people have the option of replacing it themselves. Replacing just the trigger is an easy job on the P320. All you have to do is dis-connect the trigger bar spring and then remove the trigger and bar. The whole job should take less than 10 minutes. If you do have to send the FCU back, God only knows how many others will have been sent back for repairs not to mention recalling those that have not been sold yet and those that haven't yet left the factory. If the P320 is your only gun you may not have it for quite some time. At any rate they all should be fixed as this is an accident waiting to happen regardless of how remote the chances of having it are. People who are currently carrying them should stop carrying them immediately.
> 
> The problem seems to be the physical weight of the trigger not the pull weight. By all indications the new triggers will be of a lighter weight material or they may incorporate a trigger safety similar to a Glock. All we can do is wait and see. I called Sig and they wouldn't give me any information other than they will be making an announcement on Monday 8/14/17.
> 
> ...


I'm not surprised they had not heard of it. This whole thing has blown up over the last couple of weeks.

It's not just the trigger that will need to be changed and you will also almost certainly need to send back the whole pistol, or at least the FCU and the slide, because the striker and sear will also be replaced. This article is the best source of information, as yet, as to what is involved:

The Mechanics Behind SIG P320 Drop Safety Failures - The Truth About Guns


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

Liability wise, Sig may require units to be sent back for the modification. 
Perish forbid someone do the work themselves at home and not do it correctly and the gun goes off when dropped after the home mod.
Then the home user may/will blame Sig for not giving clear enough instructions; then if someone is hit/hurt when it fires, they'll sue both the home modifier and Sig.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pblanc said:


> I'm not surprised they had not heard of it. This whole thing has blown up over the last couple of weeks.
> 
> It's not just the trigger that will need to be changed and you will also almost certainly need to send back the whole pistol, or at least the FCU and the slide, because the striker and sear will also be replaced. This article is the best source of information, as yet, as to what is involved:
> 
> The Mechanics Behind SIG P320 Drop Safety Failures - The Truth About Guns


Thanks for sharing that information!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

BackyardCowboy said:


> Liability wise, Sig may require units to be sent back for the modification.
> *Perish forbid someone do the work themselves at home and not do it correctly and the gun goes off when dropped after the home mod.*
> Then the home user may/will blame Sig for not giving clear enough instructions; then if someone is hit/hurt when it fires, they'll sue both the home modifier and Sig.


Yeah, you're right. Not everyone is capable of working on their own guns at least for me, I am. I've got to know how to take apart all of my guns. Relying on other people to fix things when something goes wrong is a pain in the ass. Although I have worked on mechanical things all my life.


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Wow so any gun maker can have problems even the more costly ones? Oh well back to the drawing board.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Cannon said:


> Wow so any gun maker can have problems even the more costly ones? Oh well back to the drawing board.


Well of course they can. It's just that some manufacturers have had more problems than the rest of them. A lot more. I'm really surprised that the problem with the P320 didn't turn up when they were tested and chosen as the new sidearm for the military?

Even Mercedes-Benz has had problems with it's automobiles:



> Problem with your Mercedes-Benz? Our list of 2,814 known complaints reported by owners can help you fix your Mercedes-Benz.
> Mercedes-Benz ML350 Problems and Complaints - 44 Issues
> repairpal.com/problems/mercedes-benz/ml350
> 
> ...


At any rate there is no excuse for Sig to have produced and marketed this pistol before drop testing it. Had they done that they could have solved this problem during it's stage of development. This is going to cost them.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Well, here's a drop test that fired on the first try:


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

Well, SIG says they did drop test the P320 extensively according to ANSI, SAAMI and Department of Justice standards, as well as additional protocols for law enforcement and the military and it passed. But they did not test it specifically for the drop angle that is causing the repeatable drop fires, with the muzzle up and 30 degrees from vertical. The usual drop tests include dropping the pistol muzzle up, but when dropped with the muzzle aligned with the vertical the pistol impacts the beaver tail initially and that damps some of the impact. All of the videos demonstrating drop fires show the beaver tail and the back of the slide impacting simultaneously which requires that 30 degree angle off vertical.


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## SigCarry1956. (Aug 7, 2017)

Apparently talks about a fix involve installing a lighter trigger. The flat trigger upgrade already does that. Hopefully you guys that are worried about it will go out and drop your guns to see. Let me know how that goes.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

desertman said:


> At any rate there is no excuse for Sig to have produced and marketed this pistol before drop testing it. Had they done that they could have solved this problem during it's stage of development. This is going to cost them.


At least Sig is stepping up to the plate


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

SigCarry1956. said:


> Apparently talks about a fix involve installing a lighter trigger. The flat trigger upgrade already does that. *Hopefully you guys that are worried about it will go out and drop your guns to see. Let me know how that goes.*


I tried it with mine (*an empty gun of course*) and it didn't go off. You can feel the difference in the trigger pull from when the trigger is cocked and released. I racked the slide setting the trigger then slammed the back of the slide several times against the carpeted floor as if I were hammering nails. My wife thought I was pounding something and heard it from another room. I then pulled the trigger and could hear and feel the striker being released. I tried this well over a dozen times with the same results. I then held the gun high up over my head and dropped it. Sometimes it would fall just right and tried this several times. I still couldn't get it to go off.

I really don't know what to think? I doubt those video's were faked. Just to be safe I think I'm going to order one of those lighter triggers then wait to hear what Sig has to say about all of this. I really like the P320 but rarely carry it as I prefer my HK VP's for a striker fired gun. Followed by Glock and Springfield all of which have trigger safeties. As far as Sig goes I prefer their DA/SA semi auto's over all the others.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

BackyardCowboy said:


> At least Sig is stepping up to the plate


I don't think that they have any other choice.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I contacted Apex about those lighter weight triggers. They are requesting that those that bought them return them including their distributers and are suspending sales until Sig resolves this problem with the P320. From their website:



> Due to Sig Sauer's recently announced "voluntary upgrade" of the Sig Sauer P320 pistol, announced on August 8, 2017, Apex Tactical Specialties, out of an abundance of caution, has chosen until further notice to suspend sales of those aftermarket trigger products specifically designed for use in the Sig Sauer P320.
> 
> Additionally, for those customers that have purchased an Apex Curved Advanced Trigger, part# 112-022, due to how closely the Curved Advanced Trigger's design reflects that of the current Sig Sauer stock factory trigger, we are asking customers to stop using this trigger and to please contact Apex Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 of [email protected] to return the trigger in exchange for credit towards any one of our Apex products.
> 
> ...


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

desertman said:


> I tried it with mine (*an empty gun of course*) and it didn't go off. You can feel the difference in the trigger pull from when the trigger is cocked and released. I racked the slide setting the trigger then slammed the back of the slide several times against the carpeted floor as if I were hammering nails. My wife thought I was pounding something and heard it from another room. I then pulled the trigger and could hear and feel the striker being released. I tried this well over a dozen times with the same results. I then held the gun high up over my head and dropped it. Sometimes it would fall just right and tried this several times. I still couldn't get it to go off.
> 
> I really don't know what to think? I doubt those video's were faked. Just to be safe I think I'm going to order one of those lighter triggers then wait to hear what Sig has to say about all of this. I really like the P320 but rarely carry it as I prefer my HK VP's for a striker fired gun. Followed by Glock and Springfield all of which have trigger safeties. As far as Sig goes I prefer their DA/SA semi auto's over all the others.
> 
> ...


Do you know what the date of manufacture of your P320 is? Is it the one with the flat dark earth grip module? The pistol with the FDE grip module is clearly an earlier model P320 with the original slide stop lever that pointed toward the rear, and the "thicker" take down lever that stuck out further. I can't tell from the photo what trigger it has.

The reason that the date of manufacture might be of significance is that SIG made sequential changes to the P320 over time. The take down lever and slide stop lever are obvious ones. The original P320 trigger was hollowed out on the backside all the way to the tip. Some people complained of trigger sting after the P320 was released, and an early change SIG made to the P320 was the introduction of the trigger that is now standard, the so-called "adverse" trigger. That trigger can easily be recognized because the portion of the back of the trigger at the tip is "filled in", i.e, solid. The adverse trigger also has a flat extension pointing forward from the trigger shoe that sort of covers up the front of the hole in the grip module and protects the inside that has been called the "mud flap". These changes to the original trigger had to add some mass.

I also recently found out that somewhere between 2014 and 2016 SIG made a significant change to the striker block safety. I don't know the reason for this change or what effect it might have had. Someone on another forum posted pictures of two different P320 FCUs from those years, and the change in the striker block was quite visibly evident.

There has been speculation that changes to the original P320 design, especially the trigger, may have rendered recent P320s less drop safe than the originals. Tom Taylor, Executive Vice-President of Commercial Sales for SIG has gone on record saying he knows of four unintentional discharges with P320s, three in law enforcement circles, and one additional commercial incident, but that all had occurred in the last year. The pistol was introduced in 2014 and a half-million or so have been sold since then. It is interesting that all of the reported incidents have occurred relatively recently.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pblanc said:


> Do you know what the date of manufacture of your P320 is? Is it the one with the flat dark earth grip module? The pistol with the FDE grip module is clearly an earlier model P320 with the original slide stop lever that pointed toward the rear, and the "thicker" take down lever that stuck out further. I can't tell from the photo what trigger it has.
> 
> The reason that the date of manufacture might be of significance is that SIG made sequential changes to the P320 over time. The take down lever and slide stop lever are obvious ones. The original P320 trigger was hollowed out on the backside all the way to the tip. Some people complained of trigger sting after the P320 was released, and an early change SIG made to the P320 was the introduction of the trigger that is now standard, the so-called "adverse" trigger. That trigger can easily be recognized because the portion of the back of the trigger at the tip is "filled in", i.e, solid. The adverse trigger also has a flat extension pointing forward from the trigger shoe that sort of covers up the front of the hole in the grip module and protects the inside that has been called the "mud flap". These changes to the original trigger had to add some mass.
> 
> ...


That's some interesting information there. Thanks for sharing it! Now to answer your question. I bought the gun in November of 2015. I don't know what the date of manufacture is or how long it may have been on the dealers shelf before I bought it. Mine came originally with a black frame and it has the hollowed out trigger and flat extension (mud flap) as you have described. It also has the thicker take down lever and slide stop that points towards the rear. I bought the FDE grip frame at a later date.

I again tried, in between writing this, striking the back of the slide several times against a hard padded surface and the trigger still didn't release the striker and functions as it should. I struck it just as hard as if I was swinging a hammer which to me would be harder than just dropping it. I probably have done this all told about 100 times with the same results. I then took a deadened primer (soaked it in oil) placed it in an empty shell casing and chambered it. I didn't want to use a live primer as I didn't want to scare the shit outta' my wife or the cats. I then rapped the back of the slide several times just as I did before, ejected the case and there wasn't even the slightest indentation on the surface of the primer. At this point in time I can only conclude that my particular gun is okay.

Again I want to thank you for providing me with that information. Sorry for getting back to you a little late.


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## bluewave (Mar 29, 2016)

What Problem? I just copied this from Sig's Website.

"Safety isn't negotiable. The P320 maximizes peace of mind with a robust safety system. Never again will you need to pull the trigger to disassemble your pistol. *And, while available as an option, you won't need a tabbed trigger safety for your gun to be drop safe*."


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## SigCarry1956. (Aug 7, 2017)

If any of you would like to unload the burden of liability emanating from your P320 I can dispose of the thing for you.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

bluewave said:


> What Problem? I just copied this from Sig's Website.
> 
> "Safety isn't negotiable. The P320 maximizes peace of mind with a robust safety system. Never again will you need to pull the trigger to disassemble your pistol. *And, while available as an option, you won't need a tabbed trigger safety for your gun to be drop safe*."





> "And, while available as an option"


I'm wondering if Sig will now have triggers that incorporate a "tabbed" trigger safety? If so will this be their fix? Just replacing the trigger would be a hell of a lot easier than sending the guns back to them and waiting till God knows when you'll get it back. Especially if hundreds of thousands of them are sent back for safety modifications. I guess we'll all find out after Monday 8/14/17 when Sig makes their announcement.

I never considered pulling the trigger a big deal to disassemble a pistol. As you have to remove the magazine first, then rack the slide while pushing up on the slide stop locking it to the rear, which would eject any live rounds. Make sure that the chamber is empty, then release the slide, pull the trigger and remove the slide stop or in some cases such as a Glock move it down. It's no different than with any other semi auto pistol with the exception of having to pull the trigger once the slide is released.

I'll have to reiterate though, I tried pretty hard to get my P320 to release the striker by slamming it pretty hard repeatedly against a hard padded surface. A lot harder than if dropped. But to no avail. I'll have to admit that haven't put that many rounds through it. Maybe after the gun loosens up from use the problem may occur?

As for me, I've rarely carried or fired that pistol not that I don't like it. For strikers, I'm just spoiled with my HK VP's 9 and 40.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

There will be no tabbed trigger safety. There will be a reduced mass trigger and striker/sear assembly. There will also be a new part, a disconnector added. The disconnector addition will require modification of the FCU frame and a cut in the slide. The entire pistol will need to be sent back to SIG. If you have any caliber X-change kits, they will also need to be sent back for the striker/sear exchange and the slide cut.

Here are a couple of SIG officials discussing just what the modification involves and trying to explain why a "running upgrade" that has been in the works for some time just happens to fix the very recently (according to SIG) discovered drop-fire liability:

RecoilTV - Part of TEN: The Enthusiast Network

SIG will pay all costs for the upgrade including shipping, but turnaround time might be considerable. If you have a P320 and want to register for the "voluntary upgrade", here is the place to do so. Enter your personal info and serial number and SIG will send you a shipping label, but it may take several weeks:

http://www.sigsauer.com/support/p320-voluntary-upgrade-program/


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pblanc said:


> There will be no tabbed trigger safety. There will be a reduced mass trigger and striker/sear assembly. There will also be a new part, a disconnector added. The disconnector addition will require modification of the FCU frame and a cut in the slide. The entire pistol will need to be sent back to SIG. If you have any caliber X-change kits, they will also need to be sent back for the striker/sear exchange and the slide cut.
> 
> Here are a couple of SIG officials discussing just what the modification involves and trying to explain why a "running upgrade" that has been in the works for some time just happens to fix the very recently (according to SIG) discovered drop-fire liability:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that information! And yeah I would think so.


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## Auriemma (Feb 19, 2017)

Once you sign up for the upgrade Sig states that they will contact you with the best shipping method for you (free and depends on the state you live), and it will be "a few weeks" before they do contact you. Once your pistol is received, it will be a 4-6 week turnaround.

That being said, it means they are putting the "upgrade" process in place and will contact us when ready. I am assuming (yeah, I know) that they will stage the shipping labels and work so that they do not get bogged down and fall behind. 
**keeping my fingers crossed**


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I have read elsewhere that it will take at least several weeks for SIG to shift their production facilities from new P320s to the upgrades.

After they do that, it has been said that they are going to give priority to modifying the new and unsold P320s. Then they will modify LE P320s. Finally, they will start to deal with privately-owned P320s. And after you get the nod to send your pistol in, they are anticipating a 4-6 week turnaround.


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## chiguy31 (Nov 22, 2017)

*320 firing out of battery*

Just joined the forum to inform people about my 320 firing out of battery. SIG (Michael Wood) says that the gun cannot fire out of battery, but you can see from the shell casing that the rupture occurred outside the chamber.

They promised to fix the gun, but denied any further responsibility.


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