# Need semi-auto suggestions



## Back40 (Mar 2, 2011)

Looking to purchase my 1st handgun. Not new to firearms as I have several shotguns and rifles I use for hunting. My initial choice was Glock due a good friend's endorsement of this brand and its ability to cycle any ammo he feeds it. I am having a tough time finding a G19 or G23 so I would some suggestions on other comparably priced brands that are more readily available. Thanks in advance for your feedback!


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Glock is a fine pistol and I helped a neighbor friend buy one last fall, his first centerfire semi-auto pistol. Some other good candidates would be the Smith and Wesson M&P series, Springfield Armory XD and XDM series, Ruger SR series, CZ-75's, Beretta 92 and PX4 series, Walther PPQ, Sig Sauer... As you can see, there are a lot of fine candidate selections out there and the prices run the gauntlet as well. New gen4 Glocks are running around $537 (at gun shows) to $700 at price gouging dealers with the average price at reputable dealers around $585 to $600.

The three most popular "Glock styled" pistols, Glock, M&P's, and XD's, are price compatible with the XD's tending to run a little less and the Glocks and M&P around the same prices. Any one of these three would be a great choice for you. The one thing I would caution is that if you do get one of these guns, spend some time getting familiar with them, how they operate, and their designed in systems; obviously with the guns unloaded. Get good training, too.

For what it's worth, my primary carry gun is one of my gen3 Glock 23's. I just purchased a new gen4 Glock 22 last week and I love the new features of the gun. I own three M&P's and an XD40 as well so I am in a good position offer opinions on all of these.

Good luck in your search.


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## Back40 (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you SouthernBoy. I appreciate you opinions.


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## BlueLineFish (Jul 8, 2012)

Honestly..you should try out as many as you can and see how they feel. Dont buy by name or availability alone. See what store have what in stock and try out some or maybe people on here near you would be willing to let you handle some. Maybe even shoot them if you bring ammo


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

BlueLineFish said:


> Honestly..you should try out as many as you can and see how they feel. Dont buy by name or availability alone. See what store have what in stock and try out some or maybe people on here near you would be willing to let you handle some. Maybe even shoot them if you bring ammo


Yes, yes. Major gun shows are a great place to handle a wide variety of pistols. As long as the OP stays with quality offerings he should avail himself of every chance to handle and shoot a number of candidate pistols to see what works best for him.


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## Back40 (Mar 2, 2011)

Good advice. I have only shot my friend's G23 and really liked it but will definitely take in the next local gun show as well as check out the local dealers. Thanks again!


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## JMessmer (Dec 30, 2012)

Cz-75b


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Sticking with plastic,I'd go with the originator,HK,or maybe an M&P if it's about money but I've yet to handle one. and am no fan at all of the Safe Action propaganda.

This will rile some but here's my outlook on it.Glock came up with the safeaction design about 30 years ago.Thats 30 compared to a few hundred.They marketed it for the masses,something anyone could use.What that means is you can put this gun in any idiot's hands and he can shoot it.That's scary.What's scarier is it was touted as a safer design and that gets repeated over and over.Then a new term was coined,Glock Leg,much worse than the M1 Thumb.I like a safety whether I use it or not,and believe if you're going to handle a gun you learn it like the back of your hand before you carry it anywhere but a static range.Some say safeties are no good because you'll fumble with them,I say they lack proficiency.


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

it's hard to recommend until you can answer (at least for yourself) whether you have any preferences in a gun. (I used to hate answers like this one, but they really are necessary...)

1. do you want more caliber (eg .45ACP) or more capacity (eg 9mm)?
2. are you going to carry it ON your body most of the time or will it be somewhere else?
3. do want light (~25oz.) with possible higher recoil or heavier (~33+oz.) with possibly less recoil?
4. do you want to add lights and/or lasers?
5. are you concerned about ammo prices?
6. is it primarily for self defense or fun, with self defense as a secondary concern?
7. do you want a hammer driven gun or a striker fired gun, or no preference?
8. are you concerned about aftermarket accessories or are you going to leave it OEM?
9. how much do you want to spend (somewhere between $500-900 is reasonable for a first gun IMO)?


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## Back40 (Mar 2, 2011)

Good questions RadarContact. See my *answers*



RadarContact said:


> it's hard to recommend until you can answer (at least for yourself) whether you have any preferences in a gun. (I used to hate answers like this one, but they really are necessary...)
> 
> 1. do you want more caliber (eg .45ACP) or more capacity (eg 9mm)? *I would like to stay with 9mm*
> 2. are you going to carry it ON your body most of the time or will it be somewhere else? *At this point I plan to rarely carry on me. It will be in my home or vehicle when I am traveling*
> ...


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

RadarContact said:


> it's hard to recommend until you can answer (at least for yourself) whether you have any preferences in a gun. (I used to hate answers like this one, but they really are necessary...)
> 
> 1. do you want more caliber (eg .45ACP) or more capacity (eg 9mm)?
> 2. are you going to carry it ON your body most of the time or will it be somewhere else?
> ...


(a little douchie quoting myself, but...)

an explanation of the above:
1. determines caliber choices, obviously
2. size
3. weight, but also steel vs. poly
4. rail
5. caliber, again
6. caliber, capacity, sights, holsters, etc.
7. (self-explanitory)
8. (Glock has a million, Steyr has virtually zero). Consider holsters and mags in particular. You might want to research/price some accessories before choosing a gun.
9. you should plan for ~$550 or slightly more for a good quality auto.


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

Ok, that said...(all caps are intentional characteristics, not "yelling")

I would look for a MODERATELY-POPULAR (at least), FULL-SIZED (4-5" barrel) 9MM with HIGH CAPACITY (15+) and NIGHT SIGHTS. You didn't really answer #3 light or heavy, but by your answers I'd say you should NOT be overly concerned with the WEIGHT of the gun, as weight (and size) is bad for carry but usually better for shooting. 

Also consider in your narrowing of the field whether or not you need ambidextrous controls, and/or a safety. I.e., Glocks have no "official" safety, just the safety trigger. Also, some guns won't shoot if the magazine drops.

(I own an FN model FNX-9, and I love it.)


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

RadarContact said:


> Ok, that said...(all caps are intentional characteristics, not "yelling")
> 
> I would look for a MODERATELY-POPULAR (at least), FULL-SIZED (4-5" barrel) 9MM with HIGH CAPACITY (15+) and NIGHT SIGHTS. You didn't really answer #3 light or heavy, but by your answers I'd say you should NOT be overly concerned with the WEIGHT of the gun, as weight (and size) is bad for carry but usually better for shooting.
> 
> ...


This is incorrect. Glock employees three safeties in their guns, one external and two internal. Many of us experienced with Glocks consider the external safety, the trigger safety, to be pretty much of a joke. However the two internal safeties are excellent and work beautifully as designed.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

With your preferences in mind, I echo the CZ75B suggestion.


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## Back40 (Mar 2, 2011)

Being a southpaw I would definitely need ambidextrous controls. Also do I just go by how a handgun feels or should I restrict my choices based on my hand size? I do not have large hands. 4.5" across the palm and 7.5" bottom of palm to longest finger tip. Thanks again for everyone's feedback. This is very helpful information.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Back40 said:


> Being a southpaw I would definitely need ambidextrous controls. Also do I just go by how a handgun feels or should I restrict my choices based on my hand size? I do not have large hands. 4.5" across the palm and 7.5" bottom of palm to longest finger tip. Thanks again for everyone's feedback. This is very helpful information.


I wouldn't get wrapped up in the dimensions of your hand and such. I would focus on how the gun sits and feels in your hand. The are a number of little "tests" you can do but one that does tell you something quickly is this. Have a candidate gun sitting on a table or counter and then just pick it up and go into a two hand hold. Does it feel natural? Do you have to fiddle with it a moment before you find the right place for your hand and fingers or does it just seem to be where it needs to be? Do you have to work a moment on getting the right grip or does it just happen? And with all of this, when you point the gun, do the sights line up almost right away or do you have to re-adjust your grip until you find a good sight picture. You'd be surprise how this works with different guns. Give it a try.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

Given the new parameter, and being a lefty as well, I will change my recommendation to a CZ85B. It has ambi controls and the mag release can be reversed. I have one, and it's great!

The CZ85B is the ambidextrous version of the CZ75B


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> This is incorrect. Glock employees three safeties in their guns, one external and two internal. Many of us experienced with Glocks consider the external safety, the trigger safety, to be pretty much of a joke. However the two internal safeties are excellent and work beautifully as designed.


Didn't mean that as a dis on Glocks, they are great guns. But some people, like myself, get a warm fuzzy when you can make something go "click"...safe is on. (I like when my horn beeps and my lights flash when I lock my car too.)


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

RadarContact said:


> Didn't mean that as a dis on Glocks, they are great guns. But some people, like myself, get a warm fuzzy when you can make something go "click"...safe is on. (I like when my horn beeps and my lights flash when I lock my car too.)


I understand. It's a different strokes thing. I don't care for external settable safeties on carry guns because I don't want to have to worry about them. All I want to worry about is pull and pull... pull the gun and pull the trigger.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> This is incorrect. Glock employees three safeties in their guns, one external and two internal. Many of us experienced with Glocks consider the external safety, the trigger safety, to be pretty much of a joke. However the two internal safeties are excellent and work beautifully as designed.


I don't agree with that on a handling issue.You are correct on the trigger safety on all "safe action" designs,it's stupid.The other safeties are passive (if that's the correct term),they are overridden pulling the trigger,which renders them useless except for drop safeties.Basically,if you don't drop it,there are no safeties.

Having said that,the safety is between your ears and in the trigger finger,as it should be in any firearm.Unfortunately history has proven otherwise,hence the first time a term was coined for shooting yourself,major NDs,and the need for the NY trigger.Safe action pistols were developed for the masses and ease of use (read-any idiot can use it),but it's design is 180 degrees of intent,you need to be very astute at handling one or you or someone else will take a bullet unintentionally.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

rex said:


> I don't agree with that on a handling issue.You are correct on the trigger safety on all "safe action" designs,it's stupid.The other safeties are passive (if that's the correct term),they are overridden pulling the trigger,which renders them useless except for drop safeties.Basically,if you don't drop it,there are no safeties.
> 
> Having said that,the safety is between your ears and in the trigger finger,as it should be in any firearm.Unfortunately history has proven otherwise,hence the first time a term was coined for shooting yourself,major NDs,and the need for the NY trigger.Safe action pistols were developed for the masses and ease of use (read-any idiot can use it),but it's design is 180 degrees of intent,you need to be very astute at handling one or you or someone else will take a bullet unintentionally.


Yes you do have to be "very astute at handling one" however, this can and should be said about any firearm, handgun or long gun. The Glock design of internal safeties are excellent designs for their intended purposes. The beauty is in the fact that the gun can be carried or kept in full battery without worry of it discharging if dropped. The only thing that will fire a Glock is the trigger being deliberately pulled fully rearward and that is how it should be. I don't care for externally settable safeties for my carry guns for reasons I stated earlier and that's how I train. I don't see the need for the trigger safety at all and can't for the life of me imagine why Glock, and the later Glock copycats, employed this type of safety. But it doesn't bother me or get in my way so I have no problem dealing with it.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Yeah,I have no idea what Glock was thinking on that trigger bar.It makes me nervous when newbies have Glocks or copies,I see an accident waiting to happen.You would think that a lack of a safety,so to say,would make you much more aware of your handling and safety,but we all know how that sometimes goes.

Frame mounted safeties don't bother me,I've used them long enough that it's pure instinct manipulating it.I had one 1911 that was prone to the safety snicking off but it never bothered me like others freak out about.I mean really,what's going to happen?The gun can't go off because the grip safety still blocks the trigger.Even if the GS was pinned or inoperable,it still won't.Basically I had a Glock with a nicer trigger.Now,reholstering would be a bit scary.One thing I do like about the 1911 safety is you don't need to thumb the slide holstering because the slide is locked in battery.Slide mounted safeties,now those piss me off to no end and won't use them as a safety,only decock.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Actually, thumb-capping the slide on a 1911 (or Xd) when holstering is GOOD becuase it will take pressure off the grip safety. Should one forget to engage the tumbsafety the grip saftety can prevent a ND if a foreign object gets in the trigger guard.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Personally I like the external safeties. But the glock safety is good enough if your a master of the art of man cannons. I'm getting there and would love to get a glock at some point. I just don't think I'm there yet.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

You'll know your "there" when you stop calling handguns "man cannons"...lol.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

VAMarine said:


> Actually, thumb-capping the slide on a 1911 (or Xd) when holstering is GOOD becuase it will take pressure off the grip safety. Should one forget to engage the tumbsafety the grip saftety can prevent a ND if a foreign object gets in the trigger guard.


No doubt,I agree with you there.When I started shooting I didn't because I had a scabbard,but when I started carrying in a tighter holster and other guns it was required.Now it's just habit from doing it so long.I also set my grip safeties to disengage fairly quickly so I don't rely on it,or any other safety for that matter.My cover garment is always away from the gun and I watch it going in to make sure nothing can get in the way.That finger is important too,keep it well away from the trigger.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> You'll know your "there" when you stop calling handguns "man cannons"...lol.


what do you call them amigo?


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

I simply call them handguns... although in my area, the most common "street" names are Heaters and Burners.

I'm just messin' with ya though....I could care less what you call em'... as long as ya don't start calling magazines "clips", lol.


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## Robert1955 (Apr 25, 2013)

rex said:


> This will rile some but here's my outlook on it.Glock came up with the safeaction design about 30 years ago.Thats 30 compared to a few hundred.They marketed it for the masses,something anyone could use.What that means is you can put this gun in any idiot's hands and he can shoot it.That's scary.What's scarier is it was touted as a safer design and that gets repeated over and over.Then a new term was coined,Glock Leg,much worse than the M1 Thumb.I like a safety whether I use it or not,and believe if you're going to handle a gun you learn it like the back of your hand before you carry it anywhere but a static range.Some say safeties are no good because you'll fumble with them,I say they lack proficiency.


I also thought about the lack of a dedicated "safety" before I bought my first pistol, a Glock 17. Once you take off the safety the only safety is your brain controlling your trigger finger. As long as you practice proper finger placement, i.e. off the trigger until you plan to shoot the existence of a safety means nothing. And ANY GUN in the hands of an idiot is scary. And lastly, the lack of a dedicated safety has not prevented thousands of Glocks being used by the military and police dept's around the world.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

They just seem completely unsafe. I have heard of cops grabbing for a gun and shooting there ass. True story.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

TheLAGuy said:


> They just seem completely unsafe. I have heard of cops grabbing for a gun and shooting there ass. True story.


Actually, the cops were trying to scratch their ass, and grabbed the gun by mistake.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

see at least you agree with me.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

TheLAGuy said:


> see at least you agree with me.


The Glock doesn't strike me as being completely unsafe.

Bottom line.......it's impossible for it to fire itself. There's gotta be a finger involved.


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