# .45 ACP or 9mm



## Fishwiz4

I am in the market for my first handgun. I have shot several including .22, .40 sub compact, .40 full size, and 38 special revolver.

I'm am looking for a gun for home defense, and some recreational range shooting. I don't plan on carrying much, but I would carry occasionally after I get my permit.

I really want an xdm 45 but some people say that a 9 mm can be just as good for defense but is much cheaper to shoot. I think part of the reason I like the 45, is because it is more manly to have a big caliber gun. I am also concerned that the 9 mm could have a higher risk of over penetration in a home defense scenario.

I am pretty confident that I want a springfield, but am open to hearing other thoughts

let me know what you think.

Thanks!


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## Todd

Welcome to the forum!



Fishwiz4 said:


> I really want an xdm 45 but some people say that a 9 mm can be just as good for defense but is much cheaper to shoot.


Much cheaper??? I have both calibers. 9mm ammo is just about *half *the cost of the .45 ammo. 9mm here is $21-$22 for 100 rounds, IIRC. .45 is $40 for 100 rounds. Translation? You get to shoot twice as much for the same $$$$.



Fishwiz4 said:


> I think part of the reason I like the 45, is because it is more manly to have a big caliber gun. I am also concerned that the 9 mm could have a higher risk of over penetration in a home defense scenario.


Don't worry about manliness, worry about accuracy. A hand cannon you can't hit anything with is useless and also a liability as you are responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun.

Try both calibers and see what's a better fit for you. If it's close and/or money is a factor then get the 9mm. You'll have more money for ammo and practice.


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## TurboHonda

Fishwiz4 said:


> I am in the market for my first handgun. I have shot several including .22, .40 sub compact, .40 full size, and 38 special revolver.
> 
> I'm am looking for a gun for home defense, and some recreational range shooting. I don't plan on carrying much, but I would carry occasionally after I get my permit.
> 
> I really want an xdm 45 but some people say that a 9 mm can be just as good for defense but is much cheaper to shoot. * I think part of the reason I like the 45, is because it is more manly to have a big caliber gun. I am also concerned that the 9 mm could have a higher risk of over penetration in a home defense scenario.*
> 
> I am pretty confident that I want a springfield, but am open to hearing other thoughts
> 
> *let me know what you think.*
> 
> Thanks!


Here's what I think of your first post, and I mean it sincerely. Please postpone any handgun purchases that are based on your present knowledge and experience level. Meanwhile, talk to reliable and knowledgeable gun handlers and don't put a lot of faith in anonymous opinions found on forums like this one.


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## Todd

TurboHonda said:


> Please postpone any handgun purchases that are based on your present knowledge and experience level.


He's asking questions and has stated what the purpose of his firearm will be. Seems like he is just starting his search. I fail to see any problem, other than being a bit hung up on a manly caliber, in his process.



TurboHonda said:


> Talk to reliable and knowledgeable gun handlers and don't put a lot of faith in anonymous opinions found on forums like this one.


Gonna go out on a limb here and say since he's asking on gun forum, he doesn't know a lot of knowledgable gun handlers. He can go into a LGS and get a line of crap from an owner pushing what he has in stock, an employee that knows less than the customer, or the opinion of some counter bunny that hangs out in the shop all day with nothing better to do or come to a forum. Either way, he's going to have to learn, like in all aspects of life, to take all the information he gets and filter the good stuff from the crap.

And I'm a bit confused if you are bashing all forums in general or just this one? I have been a member here six years. The mall ninjas and couch commandos come and go, but I have to say that the long-standning members are some of the most level-headed, law-abiding, practical advice givers I have seen online. There is, literally, hundreds of years of experience and a wealth of knowledge to be found here.


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## TurboHonda

Todd, I meant no disrespect to this board. I totally agree with everything you've said. I confess that the "manly" reference struck a suspicious chord with me. Other than that, please accept my regrets for posting anything.


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## Todd

TurboHonda said:


> I confess that the "manly" reference struck a suspicious chord with me.


It got me too, but I'm thinking new shooter just a poor choice of words. I'm gonna guess he likes the idea of a major caliber and just didn't know how to word it.


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## Sgt45

If you have a range near you that offers "rentals", try, try, try. See what fits you at this time. It may be a 9mm and you may find that two years down the road and 20,000 rounds later (or less  ) that you want to try something bigger, then go for it. On the other hand, you may find that the XDm45 is ideal for you and you can shoot it really well. For defense, bigger is always better as long as you hit your target. Remember that in a gunfight, you will only be as good as your worst day of practice, so the question is, what gun will you practice with the most? .45 is a great caliber and I love my 1911, but I probably have in excess of 70,000 rounds through various 1911's, I am comfortable with the gun. The XD 45c is another that I like, it's my nightstand gun (it takes a light on the rail), it comes up (for me) very nicely and I shoot it well. Two different guns (hammer and striker fired) but more similarities than differences and I shoot both, I would suggest that to start with, you pick one style and one style only, shoot it A LOT, practice malfunction drills A LOT, practice reloads A LOT. Remember that most of your practice can be "dry practice", get some dummy ammo and practice 10-20 minutes a day - don't over do it! Establish safety rules that will keep you and everyone else safe, remember the 4 rules of gun safety at all times. Front Sight in Nevada has a booklet out on dry practice, it has a lot of really good stuff in it. Remember that you should do what works for you, everything that someone tells you is a suggestion but only you can decide what is best for you. Don't kid yourself, don't try to be "macho", if you really like a 9mm go for it. 
Just my 2¢


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## genesis

Fishwiz4 said:


> I am in the market for my first handgun. I have shot several including .22, .40 sub compact, .40 full size, and 38 special revolver. I'm am looking for a gun for home defense, and some recreational range shooting. I don't plan on carrying much, but I would carry occasionally after I get my permit. I really want an xdm 45 but some people say that a 9 mm can be just as good for defense but is much cheaper to shoot. I think part of the reason I like the 45, is because it is more manly to have a big caliber gun. I am also concerned that the 9 mm could have a higher risk of over penetration in a home defense scenario. I am pretty confident that I want a springfield, but am open to hearing other thoughts
> let me know what you think. Thanks!


Hi Fish and welcome to the forum. Go to youtube and do a search on any gun you're interested in. You will find a ton of excellent gun reviews. I particularly like Hickok45. He has almost 700 gun review vids on youtube and over a quarter million subscribers. Before you buy "anything", take the time to educate yourself. Take everything you hear (including from me) with a grain of salt. In the end it just boils down to your personal preference (revolver or auto). You have to be able to afford to shoot what ever you buy, so keep that under consideration. 22 ammo is cheap so you will practice a lot more with a 22. 9MM is about the cheapest center fire ammo at around $10 a box. That XDm 45 is a really nice gun, as are many, many others, but it will cost a lot more to shoot. Do the youtube thing. I've listed a few to get you started.

Enjoy the journey, happy shooting, and always be safe.

Semper Fi

Don <><

HICKOK45 - YouTube


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## Fishwiz4

Wow... You guys are awesome. I really appreciate all the fast response. Regarding my comment on "manly"... realistically I will not be able shoot near as much as most of you, and the reason I am drawn to the 45 is that it seems like it would be more exciting to shoot when practicing. Manly was the wrong word to use.

If 9 mm will be just about as effective for defense, I will probably lean towards that. I do not have a range near me that rents, but I can find time to get to a range that does rent.

I have heard and read many reveiws of the xdm 45 that out shoots super smooth and less snappy, even when compared to the xdm 40 (that I have experience with).

I have done a fair amount of research over the past few weeks, and I think getting a chance to shoot a few different guns is the next step for me.

Anyone know of a range in Fargo that rents guns?

Thanks.... I can tell this is a great group of people.


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## Todd

Fishwiz4 said:


> and the reason I am drawn to the 45 is that it seems like it would be more exciting to shoot when practicing.


Oh yeah, the .45 is definitely fun to shoot. I'm grinning just thinking about mine. :mrgreen: But, if you're new to shooting and looking for bang for your buck, the 9mm will be, IMO, your best start. Loaded with a quality defensive ammo, you're going to be just fine in a self-defense situation as accuracy is the first priority. I'll have a 9mm on my hip tonight when I go out to dinner and will not feel under-armed.


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## Fishwiz4

Thanks for the advice. I think I will plan on a 9 mm for now and maybe get the 45 as my next gun.


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## hideit

good for your decision
yea the 9mm is nothing sissy
USA went to 9mm (for one reason) because most all the armies of the world use 9mm 
do your research on muzzle energy and there is a good range to choose from
there are several loads designed to limit over penetration
now you get to decide which one - thats the fun part - keep on your research on this forum


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## Easy_CZ

Used my "Where To Shoot" app and found this public range in Fargo that rents guns:

Adventure Shooting Sports of Fargo
4333 167th Ave SE 
Horace, ND 58047
[email protected]
http://www.advshoot.com/
Phone Information
• 701-282-3805 Main

Nothing wrong with a 9. I carry a CZ75 Compact and my wife's nightstand gun is a Sig Sauer SP2022. I carry a .45 1911 as well. The 45 makes a bigger hole, but the CZ has nearly twice the capacity.

There are so many good choices out there, you'll find something that works for you.

While I don't agree 100% with the below list, it contains some pretty good info on 9mms.

http://www.best9mm.com/


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## Falsesuspect

I'm sure you have spent countless hours on the net but what matters is how it feels and how you shoot with that round, i would strongly suggest that you do every thing possible to shoot the gun that you want to get before you go out and buy it. Different guns will feel different even though they shoot the same caliber, your heavier guns tend to reduce felt recoil and make the .45 feel like a 9mm on the flip side your lighter guns will make it a pain to shoot, I own a glock 17 and love the 9mm round. a 9mm is a great option for a new handgun owner and with the lower price you will shoot a lot more, if you end up with a gun that can handle the cheaper steel case ammo you can shoot for pennys on the dollar. Now i will say there is nothing wrong with the .45 its a blast to soot and it certainly will make any one think twice about doing any thing if you do have to use it for self defense. but as far as im concerned you could use a .22lr for self defense to, as a good friend once said " If i cant kick someones ass after i put 10 rounds in them i deserve whats coming". I wish the best of luck to you. and enjoy and practice train and learn every day that you can.


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## Steve M1911A1

...And never forget: Accurate and effective shooting beats ballistics, every time.
If you practice to shoot well, as often as you can and as realistically as you can, you can defend yourself with any caliber. Yes, even .22 rimfire.

Just for the record, I have taught slightly-built women and young children to shoot effectively, accurately, and successfully with the .45 ACP cartridge.
With good guidance, anybody can shoot any practical defensive pistol. (No, .454 Casull is not a practical defensive round.)


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## genesis

Fishwiz4 said:


> If 9 mm will be just about as effective for defense, I will probably lean towards that.


A 9MM will serve you very well ! ! ! There are just a ton of extremely fine 9mm's available from just about every manufacture. I carry a Ruger SR40C. But they also make the Ruger SR9C. They're basically identical. Both are around $400. You get a lot of gun for not a lot of money. Springfield Armory also makes some mighty fine 9's, as do a host of other manufactures like Glock, S&W, Sig, etc. There are even good and cheaper 9's available from Kahr and others. But I tend to favor Rugers. Remember, we all have our own biased opinions, me included, so take what ever I/we tell ya with a grain of salt. Do the youtube thing on any gun you're interested in.

I kind of have my eye on the Springfield Armory XDm 9MM 5.25 competition model (around $700 but it comes with lots of accessories)

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/77446/Springfield+9mm+5.25+COMPET+Black

Ya need ta add around $35 for the transfer fee if ya buy it on line. I've included a few vids on it below. It's probably to big for concealed carry, but it's one heck of a shooter ! ! ! Come to think of it, if you're not going to conceal it, a bigger gun is probably better for ya as they're a bit easier to shoot well. Just handle all of the 9's ya can to see how they feel. One really isn't any better then the rest as they're all pretty darn nice IMHO. Some may say, stay away from Taurus or High Point or this or that. That's up to you. Just take your time, educate yourself, and just shop around, A LOT ! Once you've settled on a particular model, check with a few knowledgeable shooters to see what they think about it. But again, remember that opinionated bias thing.

Below are some reviews on the Ruger SR9C. Based on the state you live in, it will come with either two 10 rounds mags, or a 10 round and a 17 round mag. The larger mag turns the SR9C (C is for compact) in to a full size SR9, so you get the best of both worlds. But you should really check out all of the manufactures. If you can't find cheap 9mm practice ammo locally, here is a good place to deal with, and they have 9MM for $10 a box. http://www.ammoforsale.com/

Be a responsible shooter, enjoy the sport, and always be safe.

Semper Fi

Don <><

Ruger SR9c - YouTube

SR9c (Chapter 2) - YouTube

SR9c Close Up - YouTube

*Below are some vids on the Springfield Armory XDm 5.25 competition model*


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## dondavis3

My favorite round is the .45

But if you are at all price sensitive and if you shoot very often

The difference in the cost of .45 vs. 9mm ammo is about double. ie $20 a box vs $10 a box.

It varies a little dependending on sales and where you buy it.

But if you shoot often (I do) and you shoot, lets say, 200 rounds per month - 4 boxes .45 ammo = $80 

4 boxes of 9 mm = $40

Do that and more each month and 

you can save enough money on ammo to buy yourself another gun every year. :mrgreen:

I'm just sayin'

:smt1099


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## berettabone

Unless you shoot Tula, or some other CHEAP ammo, I can't find 9mm ammo for $10 a box in my area........If you go to Gander Mtn......I use the Blazer Brass in the 250 ct. box.....I shoot .40 cal....36 cents a shot.....200 shots, $72....200 shots of 9mm in 350 ct. box, 26 cents a shot....$52.


dondavis3 said:


> My favorite round is the .45
> 
> But if you are at all price sensitive and if you shoot very often
> 
> The difference in the cost of .45 vs. 9mm ammo is about double. ie $20 a box vs $10 a box.
> 
> It varies a little dependending on sales and where you buy it.
> 
> But if you shoot often (I do) and you shoot, lets say, 200 rounds per month - 4 boxes .45 ammo = $80
> 
> 4 boxes of 9 mm = $40
> 
> Do that and more each month and
> 
> you can save enough money on ammo to buy yourself another gun every year. :mrgreen:
> 
> I'm just sayin'
> 
> :smt1099


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## berettatoter

A .22 on target will beat a .45 off target every time. I prefer the 9mm due to the fact I can quickly put them on target, compared to the .45 ACP, but that's just me. You need to shoot what works best for you.:numbchuck:


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## Fishwiz4

I still havn't had a chance to shoot any of my options yet, but i did stop in at a gun shot today and held a few guns. I really like the feel of the S&W M&P but i dont like how the trigger feels (the trigger saftey). I have not shot this gun, but it feels cheap when the bottom of the trigger has some play in it. is it possible to get it without the trigger saftey?

also, they had a used M&P .45 for $450. That seemed like a good price, but I am still undecided on what caliber is best for me. i also handled the ruger SP9 and SP40 and liked how they fit my hand, but the guy selling guns was steering me away from them and towards the XDM that i also showed intrest in. Any thoughts on that from you guys?

One other gun he recommended that i check out was a EAA. I liked the weight/balance of it (steel framed gun) but i am not sure i like the thumb saftey. this is also the reason i am steering away from 1911's. i like the idea of being able to shoot as soon as the gun is in my hand without any step that is required.


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## berettabone

Just bought my wife the SR40 a couple months ago...great feel, fit, and for $399.......great buy..........


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## Todd

Fishwiz4 said:


> is it possible to get it without the trigger saftey?


Not that I'm aware of.



Fishwiz4 said:


> also, they had a used M&P .45 for $450. That seemed like a good price, but I am still undecided on what caliber is best for me.


Stay away from used as a new shooter. Buy a new gun that has a factory warranty. You, and possibly the LGS, have no clue how the gun was maintained or even if the previous owner was an amateur gunsmith and used the gun for practice. The few bucks you save will not be worth the potential problems.



Fishwiz4 said:


> also handled the ruger SP9 and SP40 and liked how they fit my hand, but the guy selling guns was steering me away from them and towards the XDM that i also showed intrest in. Any thoughts on that from you guys?


You get the gun *YOU* want, not what the guy behind the counter says to get or even what we say here. The LGS clerk may honestly have your best interests at heart, but then again, you don't know his level of knowledge and he may be pushing guns they have an excess inventory of, pays a better commission, there is a manufacturer sales contest on, what his manager says to sell, or personal preference. Ruger makes a solid gun for a decent price.



Fishwiz4 said:


> One other gun he recommended that i check out was a EAA. I liked the weight/balance of it (steel framed gun) but i am not sure i like the thumb saftey. this is also the reason i am steering away from 1911's. i like the idea of being able to shoot as soon as the gun is in my hand without any step that is required.


Thumb safety is all about practice. If you're willing to put in the time, it's a non-issue. :mrgreen:


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## Steve M1911A1

Todd said:


> ...Stay away from used as a new shooter. Buy a new gun that has a factory warranty. You, and possibly the LGS, have no clue how the gun was maintained or even if the previous owner was an amateur gunsmith and used the gun for practice. The few bucks you save will not be worth the potential problems...


I disagree completely.
A used gun represents "the most bang for the buck."
Make an agreement with the seller that you will have the used gun surveyed by an independent gunsmith and, if the report is too bad, you have permission to return the gun for full credit against another. Then repeat the process until you find a pistol you like that the gunsmith OKs.

Most used guns are both comparatively inexpensive and in acceptable condition.

With the exception of Jean's Kel-Tec P3AT, my Star PD, and the Mossberg .22 of my youth, we have never owned a new gun.
Also, we have never bought, traded-for, or been given an unusable gun-excepting one that we were left, in a mentor's will (which was easily repaired, though).


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## Todd

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Make an agreement with the seller that you will have the used gun surveyed by an independent gunsmith and, if the report is too bad, you have permission to return the gun for full credit against another. Then repeat the process until you find a pistol you like that the gunsmith OKs.


I guess I'm a little gun shy (pun intended) as very recently I was screwed over by a LGS on a used gun that looked, and they claimed to be, in fantastic condition. After multiple problems with the gun, I returned it and they gave me_ credit_, but then could not/would not get me any of the guns I wanted to replace the POS they sold me. Keep in mind all the guns I wanted were in stock and available on-line, so if I had my cash in hand, I would have been able to get any of the guns on my list. Instead, for a couple weeks I was sitting on a $700+ credit with a shop I no longer trusted or wanted to do business with, and was going back and forth with them trying to find a gun that I wanted and they could/would get. Eventually I did get a gun, that I had to order, but ended up paying $300 more just to end the situation; and even then they tried to ring the gun up for $100 more than they quoted me. If the OP takes your advice, which is a valid alternative, I would strongly suggest he takes it one step further and gets, _in writing_, that he can have a full _refund and _not just a credit_. _


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## Steve M1911A1

The "in writing" part is an excellent suggestion. I used to include that, in this kind of advice; but for some reason, I forgot it this time.

Considering the small margins upon which a gun shop operates, I wouldn't ask for a possible refund. I don't believe that any shop would give it.
But any _reputable_ shop should be OK with return-for-credit.
(Of course, _caveat emptor_, and all that. The prospective purchaser has got to do some research, to find a reputable store. One mustn't just go anywhere.)


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## Russ

Fishwiz4 said:


> I am in the market for my first handgun. I have shot several including .22, .40 sub compact, .40 full size, and 38 special revolver.
> 
> I'm am looking for a gun for home defense, and some recreational range shooting. I don't plan on carrying much, but I would carry occasionally after I get my permit.
> 
> I really want an xdm 45 but some people say that a 9 mm can be just as good for defense but is much cheaper to shoot. I think part of the reason I like the 45, is because it is more manly to have a big caliber gun. I am also concerned that the 9 mm could have a higher risk of over penetration in a home defense scenario.
> 
> I am pretty confident that I want a springfield, but am open to hearing other thoughts
> 
> let me know what you think.
> 
> Thanks!


Fishwiz4

I own a Springfield XD 45 and S&W M&P Shield 9mm.

Shooting Speers Gold Dot +P 124 JHP short barrel from my Shield 9mm is manly and YouTube ballistic gel tests will confirm my assertion.

Modern defense ammo should calm any concerns regarding over penetration.

I really enjoy shooting 9mm rounds. The low recoil makes for quick followup shots.

Springfield makes a fine weapon but for concealment I prefer my Shield and I have owned a Kahr CM9 and Beretta Nano both in 9 mm and the Shield is my favorite even over my Springfield 45.

Good luck and take your time choosing your weapon.

Russ


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## Ernest_T

Hey, I'm also a total NEWBIE here, and still shopping for my first handgun, but I can echo the advice given above "Shoot before you buy". I've shot a total of 7 different pistols in my search so far, and one thing that has become very clear is that a gun that feels good in your hand may not perform the best for you on the range. So, my word of advice is take your time and find a local range or ranges that rent guns and test out as many models as possible before you make a decision. When I started shopping, I was pretty much ready to buy a Glock, until the very nice guy at the gun store convinced me to try a few different brands on the range before I made a decision............now I'm very glad I did. The Glock which felt great at the counter, did not work for me on the range. I did really like the S&W M&P 9mm which is on your list, which is a gun that I had not even considered until I tried it.

Good luck in your search!


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## Gorris

I was in the same position you were when I bought my first gun and I will tell you to go with a 9mm. I say this for a couple of reasons. One the ammo is a lot cheaper to shoot so you can spend more time at the range working on your skills. The second reason is that the recoil is very low so you can get use to how the weapon fires and work on technique. The third reason is that you can get more bullets on target with this caliber because of the lower amount of recoil, which is a huge bonus since you are using the fun for home defense. The last thing is that with the 9mm you wont get tired as quick while at the range and won't risk injury from shooting large caliber bullets. I just read an article about this in the Nov/Dec issue of American Handgunner. So my vote is 9mm, you won't regret it.


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## Wandering Man

It is good to see that you are asking about your "first" gun. As mentioned above, go with what your current and future budget will tolerate. If you plan to go to the range a lot for practice and fun, and have a limited budget, go with the 9mm. A .45 is not difficult to manage and is a great gun to shoot, but ammo is pricey.

Even my wife, who once famously asked "why would anyone need more than one gun?" (she now owns 6), admits that guns make a decent investment. You don't lose much on the re-sale, if you find yourself needing to sell one gun so you have the cash for another.

So, don't over think this. What you buy as your first gun will be fabulous, the best gun ever, and you'll regret having ever sold it, years down the road.

Go get what you think you want, and get the training and practice you need to stay safe. You won't be sorry.


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## Todd

Gorris said:


> The last thing is that with the 9mm you wont get tired as quick while at the range and *won't risk injury from shooting large caliber bullets*. I just read an article about this in the Nov/Dec issue of American Handgunner.


OK, I had to go find that article because what you were suggesting so astonished me and, after reading it, I think you missed the point of it. The author is talking about injury to your median nerve from using _large-bore _handguns (more like hand cannons) giving the .45-70 as an example. He did mention the 9mm and .45, but in passing. The .45 is not going to tire you out to the point of injury unless you're talking years and years of shooting thousands and thousands of rounds; at which point even 9mm could potentially cause an injury.

Take what you read in the gun rags with a grain of salt. They're more ads than articles and I can't remember the last time one of them had a negative review on anything they ever tested.


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## Gorris

Todd said:


> OK, I had to go find that article because what you were suggesting so astonished me and, after reading it, I think you missed the point of it. The author is talking about injury to your median nerve from using _large-bore _handguns (more like hand cannons) giving the .45-70 as an example. He did mention the 9mm and .45, but in passing. The .45 is not going to tire you out to the point of injury unless you're talking years and years of shooting thousands and thousands of rounds; at which point even 9mm could potentially cause an injury.
> 
> Take what you read in the gun rags with a grain of salt. They're more ads than articles and I can't remember the last time one of them had a negative review on anything they ever tested.


Sorry about that I guess I misunderstood the article. I didn't really read the article for the reviews on guns I actually bought it because I was looking for training information. Thanks for the help though. I still think the 9mm is a great choice though.


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## Scott9mm

I'm a 9mm fan but American Rifleman did a recent stopping power showddown:

Handgun Stopping Power: Sizing Up Your Options

Note that all 9mm is not equal when it comes to self defense. But 9mm is hard to beat considering mag capacity, cost, effectiveness, and comfort ... plus there are MANY guns available in 9mm,


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## Harryball

One to the heart with either will end the threat. As a newer shooter I would advocate the 9mm, you can always get a .45 down the road. Just do yourself a favor, which ever you decide on, take a training course to learn how to shoot it. It doesnt do you any good with either caliber, if you cant hit your target....


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## Fishwiz4

Harryball said:


> One to the heart with either will end the threat. As a newer shooter I would advocate the 9mm, you can always get a .45 down the road. Just do yourself a favor, which ever you decide on, take a training course to learn how to shoot it. It doesnt do you any good with either caliber, if you cant hit your target....


My plan is exactly what you have said here. I am planning on a 9mm unless I fall on love with a different caliber at the range, then I plan on finding a tactical type shooting class and taking classes for permit to carry.

Thanks!


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## Harryball

Fishwiz4 said:


> My plan is exactly what you have said here. I am planning on a 9mm unless I fall on love with a different caliber at the range, then I plan on finding a tactical type shooting class and taking classes for permit to carry.
> 
> Thanks!


You should fall in love with a gun, not the caliber.  that will come later on with experience. Take your permit safety class, then the real class. If you need help finding a class ( Professional training) send me a PM. In your profile it doesnt show what part of the country you are in.


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## Fishwiz4

I am in Eastern North Dakota.


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## Harryball

Fishwiz4 said:


> I am in Eastern North Dakota.


I have a friend in ND. He was in the boarder patrol for 23 years. Maybe if you are close I could set up a meet and he could show you some things....:mrgreen:


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## Todd

Fishwiz4 said:


> then I plan on finding a tactical type shooting class.


 Putting the cart before the horse there a bit. A lot of those classes have prerequisites that you have taken intro courses first, so do that! Learn the _basics and fundamentals _before you literally start running around with a gun in a more advanced class.


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## Fishwiz4

That makes sense. Good point


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## DonJ441

I, too, am new to the gun scene. I've had a 45 for over 40 years, but never used it...until one of my sons purchased a Beretta 9mm and wanted to hit the range with his dad. I used the 45 for the first time in all these years, and realized it to be too large for a carry pistol. I will admit it is neat to have. I then purchased a Sig P238, thinking the smaller the gun, the better the carry. Now, after several months of searching the net and putting much more thought in the process, I re-thought the whole carry/home defense process. As every one here said, due your due dilligence in your searching. I used "Hickok45" for alot of my 'study'. I made a list of all 9mm carry type pistols and kept notes on pros and cons of each one. When I got it down to a couple, I went to the store to handle them and get a feel for each gun. To each his own, and this is not a recommendation, but I decided on the Springfield XDm 9mm compact...for both the size and carry options and for the mag capacity for a home defense gun. So, best of luch in your quest. As you can tell, I'm no expert, like many that have answered, but I have recently gone through a similar process as you are. Have fun. By the way, a really good source, from my search, is: SportsmansOutdoorSuperstore.


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## Fishwiz4

^^^ thanks. I have pretty much decided on the xdm9, and leaving towards the full size, but the compact is still interesting. I could buy more of the large mags, but I'm not sure about the shorter barrel, especially since I will not be carrying this gun. I may want to carry in the future, but I don't have a permit yet. I was sorta planning on buying a different carry gun if/when that happens (maybe a .45 at that point)


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## tacman605

Fishwiz4. You have officially entered into one of the greatest and long running debates in firearms history, the 9mm vs. .45.

There are two basic schools of thought in regards to this. Those that feel the slower, heavier bullet is the best and those that feel the faster, light bullet is king. This has gone back and forth for years.

The .45's reputation for a manstopper is long lived. There have been studies, statistics, cows shot, ballistic gel shot by the ton and the hits keep on coming. The 9mm got a bad reputation in regards to stopping power and the same tests and studies were conducted. It all comes down to a few basic things.

Modern 9mm defensive ammo has come a long way. Better and heavier bullets and so on. The .45 trend has gone the other way with bullet weights getting lighter and faster. To me it all comes down to your ability to place the shot where you want it and need it to go. Generally speaking this is easier to do with a 9mm. The trend lately has been to build the smallest gun in the biggest caliber. They are meant to be carried a lot and shot a little and this is not really a good thing. Just because you can stick a .500 S&W magnum in a snubnose revolver does not mean you should.

The choices you have mentioned are good ones. Personally I would stick to the full size guns for your first. Compact guns are great for concealment but again generally will not be as easy or accurate to shoot as their full size brothers due to their shorter sight radius and increased recoil. 
Once you have mastered that then move on to something else. I carry a gun professionally in nasty places around the world. It has varied in models from Beretta, CZ-99's, Browning Hi Powers or Glocks but I have always carried a 9mm and have been restricted to ball ammunition due to international law and the simple availability to resupply but I have never felt under gunned or has it ever let me down. 
I realize that the restrictions that I face will not be a concern with you you have to realize the myth of the one shot stop does not exist no matter what the caliber. You shoot and keep shooting until the threat stops doing what he was doing that made you shoot him in the first place...period. Whether this is one round or twenty nine.

As has been stated the 9mm is cheaper to shoot so that could/would lead to more rounds fired which would generally lead to better accuracy with your chosen firearm. The .45 ACP is a great round and they make great guns for the caliber and I own several but when home I normally grab a 9mm of some type to carry. On the other hand my dedicated home defense gun before I grab a rifle is an M&P .45 with extended mags, threaded barrel and a weapon mounted light. 
It has nothing to with the caliber the gun shoots well for both my wife and I and is amazingly accurate. As has also been stated get some training on weapons manipulation, clearing malfunctions, reloading and so on. Many places offer "tactical" classes for the new shooter and cover everything from firearms safety to drawing and shooting from unconventional positions. 

Keep us posted on what you get


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## Steve M1911A1

I have been converted!
I used to champion the .45 ACP as the one and only effective fight stopper.
But arthritis has taken its toll, and I just can't do the .45 thing any more.
So now I am convinced that the very best way to stop a fight is to carefully place a .380 ACP hollow-point bullet into my opponent's head.
Thus my conversion to 9mm-9mm _Short_, that is.
:mrgreen:


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## TurboHonda

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I have been converted!
> I used to champion the .45 ACP as the one and only effective fight stopper.
> But arthritis has taken its toll, and I just can't do the .45 thing any more.
> So now I am convinced that the very best way to stop a fight is to carefully place a .380 ACP hollow-point bullet into my opponent's head.
> Thus my conversion to 9mm-9mm _Short_, that is.
> :mrgreen:


Sorry to hear that, Steve. Sounds like your aim hasn't suffered.

Assuming that you're not joking, do you handload for the 380? My loading blocks are too thick for the little buggers.


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## Steve M1911A1

Old age takes its toll.

However, I can still make from-the-holster 20-yard head shots, quickly and effectively...with the .380, that is.
Two seconds each, I think.

I no longer reload anything. I have enough handloaded .45 ACP and .30-'06 in stock to keep me supplied well into my 10th or 11th decade. I do still scrounge empties, when Jean and I practice, but I have no idea about what I'm going to do with them.
I have never reloaded .380 ACP, or, for that matter, any pistol cartridge other than .45 ACP. I don't have the tools, nor have I ever before had the need. But still, I scrounge empties. It must be either a mental illness or a function of my dotage.

I haven't used a loading block for more than 45 years. I didn't need one, since I've loaded everything on first a Lyman turret job, and then a Dillon progressive press.
(I full-length resized .30-'06 cases on a separate, one-stage press. From there, they went right into the Lyman or the Dillon.)


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## berettabone

The ole art ritis is starting here also....an aquaintance and I were talking about it the other day...he pretty much shoots nothing but .45, and I shoot nothing but .40...........but we both carry .380.....we figure, if your going to shoot someone, why hurt yourself in the process:mrgreen:


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## Wandering Man

Scrounging brass can quicklly become an obsession. I have to force my self to look up when I'm at a range. Otherwise I spend my whole time looking for good, or even mediocre, brass.

I did an evaluation on an offender 6 or 7 years ago who was accused of murdering a man. He used a .380 on his victim. The victim died.

I guess .380's aren't as harmless as some suppose ...


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## deskjockey12

My choice for a gun that serves both as a sport pistol for range shooting and home defense is a S&W 357 Model 60 with 3 inch barrel. I use it as a 38 since IMHO it is too slight a gun for a steady diet of 357 rounds. However, it will take on 38 +P all day long and not beat you up. I thoroughly enjoy taking it to the range to shoot regular 38 rounds. You always have the option to load with 357 rounds. As a defense weapon a draw back may be the 5 round limit, but I also have a 9mm and 20 inch double barrel Before buying either of my hand guns I rented and tested many models of revolver and semi-autos before purchasing. Everyone will tell you whatever feels right for you is the right answer. Hard to argue that. Good luck and enjoy your time at the range. I sure do.


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## Fishwiz4

I just thought I would let you all know that I "pulled the trigger" today and am the proud new owner of a xdm9. Just got the black one, a few boxes of ammo, and few targets. I can post pictures, but everyone knows what it looks like.

Thanks to all of you for helping this rookie make an informed choice!

Now I am I full fledged member of the site, and I look forward to getting to know you guys.

Fishwiz


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## bassjam04

Fishwiz4 said:


> I just thought I would let you all know that I "pulled the trigger" today and am the proud new owner of a xdm9. Just got the black one, a few boxes of ammo, and few targets. I can post pictures, but everyone knows what it looks like.
> 
> Thanks to all of you for helping this rookie make an informed choice!
> 
> Now I am I full fledged member of the site, and I look forward to getting to know you guys.
> 
> Fishwiz


Very nice gun and you wont regret that purchase.Just get ready because you now have the bug-and your want list will grow the more you read here! Haha. I also personally think you made the right choice going 9mm as your first gun. As others have said,way cheaper to shoot and that translates to more time on the range.Have fun.


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## jakeleinen1

What a silly thread.

9mm and .45 are like the same to me. I shot just as well and had the same amount of felt recoil (which is like NO RECOIL in both calibers) in my G30sf as my G17. The G17 was much cheaper to shoot though! 

With a 9mm you can get 33 round clips, and I have one. Pretty sweet little thing. I sleep easy at night! lol


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## Steve M1911A1

jakeleinen1 said:


> What a silly thread...


What a stupidly judgmental comment!

Discussions and the exchange of information are never silly.
People who are so set in their way of thinking that they think that discussions are silly, are foolish and likely incapable of learning.

...And they're called _magazines_, not "clips." There is a difference, although you may find that silly.


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## tacman605

Well Steve you beat me to it.

Jake I am glad you see no difference in recoil between the two guns but many people do. The .45 vs. 9mm debate has raged for decades and I think you will find that there will be a faster shot to shot recovery with a 9mm than with a .45.
Generally speaking the smaller the caliber and the bigger the gun the easier it is to shoot. Perceived/Felt recoil is different for everyone that is one of the reasons why companies offer so many different variations in size and caliber of their guns. 

The OP made a good choice based on his needs and wants.


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## niadhf

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...And they're called _magazines_, not "clips." There is a difference, although you may find that silly.


Personally Steve, I think we focus on this too much. Although as a response to the previous post, good idea.

My rant on clip/magazine:
Do we know what is meant? Yes 
Have they been used interchangeably for years? Yes (even by manufacturers)
Are they technically the same? Nope
Does it really matter. Probably not

Kinda like we don't correct people for saying the MOTOR in their car is a V-8


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## jakeleinen1

tacman605 said:


> Jake I am glad you see no difference in recoil between the two guns but many people do. The .45 vs. 9mm debate has raged for decades and I think you will find that there will be a faster shot to shot recovery with a 9mm than with a .45.
> Generally speaking the smaller the caliber and the bigger the gun the easier it is to shoot. Perceived/*Felt* recoil is different for everyone that is one of the reasons why companies offer so many different variations in size and caliber of their guns.


Yeah thats why I said felt recoil in my response. With practice ultimately you can get as good with a .45 IMO as you can a 9mm. Thats probably why I don't feel a difference.

Niadhf, well put! Agree lol


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## Fishwiz4

I finally got to shoot my new XDM9 today. I really enjoyed it and had zero problems with the gun. It operated perfectly for all of the 250 rounds I put through it. It was my first time to the range near me. This range has a simple $20 fee and that gives you access whenever you want (it is outdoor and there are no lights so I assume it is closed after dark) they have 25yd, 50yd, 100yd, 200yd, 300yd and 500yd berms that have some basic structure for you to attach targets to, but it is pretty basic. each distance has its own 3 sided shelter with roof, so I could shoot there in the rain.

Anyway, I did not bring my own frame for my targets so I was forced to hang my targets 25yds away. That felt like a long ways away, especially for a novice shooter like myself. I will bring somthing next time so I can hang my target closer. I also brought a orange "rubber" target cube so I placed that about 15 yards in front of me and that was much better. I liked how the cube moves when you hit it so you konw you made a hit and it changes the next shot just a little.

I can tell I have alot to learn about how to shoot more accuratly. I was pretty dissapointed in my performance. I know our forum has alot of info about how to shoot competativly or tactically, but I have not found much on this site that talks about basics for a new shooter. Maybe I just missed it. Do you guys have any recomendations about where i should look for some basic technique improvments to improve accuracy?

And I was pleasanly surprised with the "power" of this weapon in my hands. I know I sarted this thread off with poorly chosen words about caliber, but I was afraid that a 9mm would feel like a toy when compared to a .40 or .45. This was not the case. It was louder than I expected. Deffinatly needed the hearing protection that I brought. The felt recoil was less but still quite significant and I think I can get on target again quicker than I could with the .40's that I have shot. So I am very pleased with my choice of 9mm. 

Thank you all for steering me in the right direction!


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## tacman605

Fishwiz4. Glad to hear that you picked up your gun and had the chance to shoot it.

To learn what the Fundamentals of marksmanship you can simply do a google search and you will get several results. Shooting is a lot like bowling or golf. You must complete the same fundamentals every time in order to get the required results. Grip, stance, breath control, trigger finger placement, trigger squeeze, sight alignment all come into play no matter what the distance. There are several good videos from Magpul, Massad Ayoob and others that demonstrate these things. Training classes from a good instructor is your best bet.

While learning to shoot take each shot an an individual act incorporating the fundamentals then increased speed will come from that.


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## bassjam04

niadhf said:


> Personally Steve, I think we focus on this too much. Although as a response to the previous post, good idea.
> 
> My rant on clip/magazine:
> Do we know what is meant? Yes
> Have they been used interchangeably for years? Yes (even by manufacturers)
> Are they technically the same? Nope
> Does it really matter. Probably not
> 
> Kinda like we don't correct people for saying the MOTOR in their car is a V-8


Deleted


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## denner

45 leaves bigger holes


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