# Are Colt 1911s over rated?



## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

Are they?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Which Colt's 1911s are you asking about? They've been made, in several very different iterations, from 1911 until the present.
There's the M1911, The Argentine version, the Norwegian version, the M1911A1, the Gold Cup, the Commander, the Officers' Model, the Defender, and on, and on, and on...


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

I mean in general. I notice they're quite expensive for what appears to be a barebones 1911. I also have read that the older 1911s are better. What are you getting other than a name? And on that note, what's behind that name?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

You get the orginal. There are many copies out today, Some as good, some with more bells and whistles variations of every possible combonation you can think of. The final word is they are just copies of the Colts


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Although all three of my 1911s are pretty old, the earliest being from the 1960s and the most recent being from the mid-1970s, I believe that I got very good value for my money. (However, I gotta admit that all three of my 1911s were purchased used, almost always from each one's original owner.)
All three of my 1911s have been ministered to by the same, extremely competent gunsmith, such as would be difficult to find today if you wanted your work done sooner than in five years. All have 3.5-pound, crisp, overtravelless triggers, among other quite necessary tweaks. All are completely reliable, and will always go "Bang!" if kept reasonably clean. None of them will hit nailheads or mosquitoes, because I specified reliability over accuracy, but all of them will hit close enough to where I point them to be appropriate for use in any social situation.
I have shot two of them in IPSC/SWPL competition, and they have never had even one misfire or other mechanical problem during a few years of continual practice and match shooting. However, I have worn out two original Colt's, and several USGI, magazines in the process.
So, do I think that Colt's 1911s are overrated? No, not the ones I own, nor the others I've used that belonged to fellow practical shooters and competitors. Indeed, I think the 1911 to be the finest battle-worthy pistol with which I have had useful amounts of experience. If I had to compare it to something else, I'd say that it's equal in every way to the M1 Garand and the M1903 Springfield (both of which I've also used extensively).

However, I have never shot a Series 80 Colt's 1911, nor would I want to without first removing its extremely silly "firing-pin safety" mechanism. I have never shot a Colt's 1911 newer than a Series 70, in fact.

I hope that this answers your question.


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

Mostly it does. How would I find an older colt without said silly firing pin safety?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Spazz said:


> ...How would I find an older colt without said silly firing pin safety?


Buy one that's Series 70 or earlier. Avoid Series 80 and later (1980s to present).
Pre-Series-70 Colt's 1911s, made from 1911 through about 1970, are a little more rugged than the Series 70s are. The difference is in the barrel bushing, of which the Series 70 version has spring fingers, versus the previously solid-metal design. The spring-finger version doesn't have to be fitted to the gun, if you'll accept average-quality accuracy; but the earlier, solid bushing should be gunsmith fitted.

(I have always used the spring-finger version in competition, and have never had one break. Other people have told me that they are breakage-prone, but I've only seen one that ever did. My little Officers'-Model-size carry gun has a solid bushing.)


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

So what's wrong with the firing pin safety


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## stickhauler (May 19, 2009)

*I Fail To See...*

How anyone could call a firearm design that's near a century old and still popular as "over rated."


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## Chesty21 (Mar 14, 2009)

Well I have the Colt Defender, two government model .380's and a colt pony that the wife carries and I have never had a problem with any of them. I have owned a Taurus which was crap and a keltec and then there was that S&W .45 which lacked any real backbone. I like my Colts and would recommend them to anyone. The only other 1911 style pistol I would consider is a Springfield but then again they are just as expensive. 

Typically the rule you get what you pay for is true in firearms with my experience. Anytime I have bought a firearms because it was a descent price I was disappointed.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Spazz said:


> So what's wrong with the firing pin safety


The extra "monkey motion" parts that keep the pistol's firing pin from contacting a chambered cartridge's primer interfere with the gun's trigger pull, adding drag to its weight and subtracting crispness from its letoff.
Further, the only people who benefit from the addition of these excess parts are Colt's company lawyers. There is no way that a properly handled 1911, in the hands of a normally careful user, will fire without its trigger having been deliberately pulled first. That's been true since 1911, and it's still true today, regardless of the greed of litigious ex-felons and the fears of corporate lawyers.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Chesty21 said:


> Well I have the Colt Defender, two government model .380's and a colt pony that the wife carries and I have never had a problem with any of them...


Although the Defender is a 1911 (much miniaturized, like my Officers' Model), I am not so sure about the Government Model .380 and the Pony.
I seem to remember that both of these were designed by the Spanish firm, Star. They may also have been manufactured by Star, in Spain, and marketed by Colt's in the US.
This is not to disparage Star. I own a Star PD, which I really like and sometimes carry. I have even shot it in competition. However, Star-designed and Star-manufactured pistols are not 1911s.

Does anybody on this forum know for sure if my memory is correct or not?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Although the Defender is a 1911 (much miniaturized, like my Officers' Model), I am not so sure about the Government Model .380 and the Pony.
> I seem to remember that both of these were designed by the Spanish firm, Star. They may also have been manufactured by Star, in Spain, and marketed by Colt's in the US.
> This is not to disparage Star. I own a Star PD, which I really like and sometimes carry. I have even shot it in competition. However, Star-designed and Star-manufactured pistols are not 1911s.
> 
> Does anybody on this forum know for sure if my memory is correct or not?


Ummm no. Colt .380s were made in Hartford designed by Colt.


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

As for thinking they might be over rated I meant the price tag. Paying 1000ish for a 1911 without bells and whistles when you could get a Kimber for the same price. Wondered if you're just paying for the history of the name and not a difference in quality or functionality. 

What could cause the hammer to fall if the weapon was holstered and on safe? Tripping and falling? Running?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazz said:


> As for thinking they might be over rated I meant the price tag. Paying 1000ish for a 1911 without bells and whistles when you could get a Kimber for the same price. Wondered if you're just paying for the history of the name and not a difference in quality or functionality.
> 
> What could cause the hammer to fall if the weapon was holstered and on safe? Tripping and falling? Running?


Quality and functionality are about the same, Colt carries a better warranty, and pending on which exact models you're looking at, you could go either way and get a better gun from either.

Dollar for dollar, odds are you will get a better equipped pistol from Kimber until you hit the $1300 range, then you're talking Colt Special Combat models, those I would take over almost any mid-tier 1911 maker out there.

Generally speaking, you are paying for the name, but that can be said of almost any 1911 except for those that are known for being cheap, either in cost, quality, or both.

Personally, I do find most _current_ Colt 1911s to be over rated. I think they are too edgy and could use a good dehorn and a proper beaver tail for what you're paying for the gun.



> What could cause the hammer to fall if the weapon was holstered and on safe? Tripping and falling? Running?


Bad parts, if the hammer hooks let go and the half cock doesn't engage (probably next to impossible) you could have the hammer drop with the sear still engaged. In order for a 1911 without a firing pin safety or improved firing pin spring to be fired by droppage, you have to drop it just right, but it can happen. Running? Like just running with a holstered gun? Not a chance.


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

I see, I don't think I'd go so far as the special combat. I just want a workhorse. Reliable defense pistol. Don't want or need adjustable sights, front cocking serrations, or night sights. Haven't decided on the beveled magwell, or front/backstrap checkering. I don't know how necessary it is. From what I understand, the lowering and flaring of ejection ports isn't necessary for functionality? I suppose the only thing's I'm looking for aside from best quality and reliability would be possibly beavertail, commander hammer, and maybe trigger work? Light rail used to be a must but that's fading as a must have item.

How difficult is it to find a series 70 Colt?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazz said:


> I see, I don't think I'd go so far as the special combat. I just want a workhorse. Reliable defense pistol. Don't want or need adjustable sights, front cocking serrations, or night sights. Haven't decided on the beveled magwell, or front/backstrap checkering. I don't know how necessary it is. From what I understand, the lowering and flaring of ejection ports isn't necessary for functionality? I suppose the only thing's I'm looking for aside from best quality and reliability would be possibly beavertail, commander hammer, and maybe trigger work? Light rail used to be a must but that's fading as a must have item.
> 
> How difficult is it to find a series 70 Colt?


Beveled magwell is pretty much standard so that's not a worry, now if you're talking about an extended mag well, yes that costs extra. The lowered and flared ejection port is a functional upgrade as it allows spent casing to clear the slide more easily. Don't touch the trigger until you've fired a few hundred rounds.

Regarding the Colt Series 70, are you talking about the original Series 70 or the re-issue models? 5" Government or 4.25" Commander?

What kind of budget are you on?


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

I believe I want a 5" Government model. Currently my CCW is a Sig P220, so I don't have an issue with full size guns and prefer them in fact. Budget-wise, I'd like to keep it under 1000.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Well, since you like the Sig line, have you thought about a Sig GSR?

Other good choices would be a Smith&Wesson 1911, Springfield Loaded, even a Kimber Custom II, at the lower end of the cost spectrum is the Taurus PT1911 line and maybe even a RIA Tactical which is a relatively plane Jane 1911 with a few enhanced features for under $600


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

Definitely won't go with Taurus....I've heard S&W automatics are garbage, don't know if this includes the 1911 line though. Springfield is being considered, but the only ones in the shops around me are the GI version and I'm told that the shops aren't able to obtain any others from Springfield's factory. The Sigs run above 1000 which isn't necessarily an issue, but if I'm going to pay that much, I might as well get a Colt, Kimber, or loaded Springfield. And the other I haven't looked into. Though I was tossing the Dan Wesson idea around a bit.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazz said:


> Definitely won't go with Taurus....I've heard S&W automatics are garbage, don't know if this includes the 1911 line though. Springfield is being considered, but the only ones in the shops around me are the GI version and I'm told that the shops aren't able to obtain any others from Springfield's factory. The Sigs run above 1000 which isn't necessarily an issue, but if I'm going to pay that much, I might as well get a Colt, Kimber, or loaded Springfield. And the other I haven't looked into. Though I was tossing the Dan Wesson idea around a bit.


I don't think you can go wrong with a Dan Wesson, call CDNN Investments (You have to call for gun pricing) and see if they have any Loaded Springers or GSRs when they did have Loaded Springers they had the best price around. If you shop around you can find the GSRs under $1K. The S&W 1911 line is pretty damn good and they finally added a steel frame version in the 5" variant.

If you do decide to look more into the Dan Wesson line, I would heavily suggest looking at the CBOB.


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

What's the point of cutting the edge of the grip off on the CBOB?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

It aides in concealment by knocking off that corner that usually prints the worst, also pending on the shape of you hand, it may feel even better than a standard 1911.


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

I see, yeah it looks like it could be helpful. Are Colts manufactured 100% in America? I've done some reading around and it looks like the Springfield 1911s are a product of Brazil? I know the XDs are from Croatia. From what I understand, Springfield Armory is only using the name and nothing else is even related to the old armory. 

I looked into the Rock Island Armory pistols. Seem good enough, how's reliability. They seem incredibly cheap and I wonder if this is a 'get what you give' kind of pistol?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazz said:


> I see, yeah it looks like it could be helpful. Are Colts manufactured 100% in America? I've done some reading around and it looks like the Springfield 1911s are a product of Brazil? I know the XDs are from Croatia. From what I understand, Springfield Armory is only using the name and nothing else is even related to the old armory.
> 
> I looked into the Rock Island Armory pistols. Seem good enough, how's reliability. They seem incredibly cheap and I wonder if this is a 'get what you give' kind of pistol?


You are correct, the Springfield guns are only assembled in the US, but they've been like that since '85 IIRC they bought the rights to the name and I think some equipment, but other than that, they have nothing to do with the original Springfield Armory, but they still make a damn fine gun. The RIA guns are made in the Philippines, they are low cost, but those that have them seem to like them, if you have the money to buy better, I'd do so.

The Colts are still made in the US in Hartford, the Dan Wessons are still made in NY although they are now owned by CZ, most of the small parts in the Dan Wesson come from Ed Brown.


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

I think I'm gonna go to the gunshop today and have a gander at the Springfield GI thanks for the helpful knowledge.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazz said:


> I think I'm gonna go to the gunshop today and have a gander at the Springfield GI thanks for the helpful knowledge.


You're quite welcome, but I would also recommend trying to find a MILSPEC rather than a GI , the better sights alone are worth it IMHO unless you plan on having work done to the GI.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Spazz said:


> I see, yeah it looks like it could be helpful. Are Colts manufactured 100% in America? I've done some reading around and it looks like the Springfield 1911s are a product of Brazil? I know the XDs are from Croatia. From what I understand, Springfield Armory is only using the name and nothing else is even related to the old armory.
> 
> I looked into the Rock Island Armory pistols. Seem good enough, how's reliability. They seem incredibly cheap and I wonder if this is a 'get what you give' kind of pistol?


I have an RIA and it has been flawess, I started carring it instead of my Colt only because if it is ever used LE will hold my RIA instead of my COLT.


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

Hold a bobtail, and you will see!:mrgreen: For me, they feel so natural in the hand, and very easy to conceal. I carry my Dan Wesson CBOB all the time, nothing like 9 rounds of .45 Gold Dots at your disposal!

If you're willing to spend $1,000(which isn't alot when it comes to 1911s), definitely look at a Dan Wesson. They are distributed by CZ, but remain seperate in production process, all is made in the US, contain many Ed Brown internals, and for the 1k dollar mark, have got to be the best value in 1911's


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## Spazz (May 3, 2009)

You're right VAMarine, the sights on the GI are terrible. I held a DW CBOB and gave it a look over. After looking into them a bit more I think I'll just savr up and get a CBOB in 10mm :smt033


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## beretta-neo (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm personally looking at getting an Ed Brown very soon - a very nice 1911. I've owned various brands and models of 1911s over the years. I'm interested in the higher end ones now.


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