# DPMS vs. Bushmaster



## Will R. (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I am a long time handgun shooter but have zero experience with rifles.

Just inherited a Remington 700 in 7mm magnum with scope. It's been in a closet and gunsafe since the mid 1960's and is in good condition. The owner probably never put more than 100 rds through it, if that many.

I am going to take it to a gunsmith to check it for reliability and function. Clean it up a bit and appraise it.

With Obama looming on the horizon, I'm thinking of trading it for either of the above mentioned carbines in .223. PDQ.

At the local gunstore the DPMS is $650 and the Bushmaster is $850.

Which semi auto rifle would you go for? 
(Money is tight right now, kids in college, etc.)

Or would you keep the Model 700?
(As much as I would like to hunt, I just don't have the opportunity.)

Thank you for your advice!

Will


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Damn!!! Tell me where you live so I can get either rifle at those prices! I haven't seen a Bushy under $1k for over 2 years, or a DPMS for under $1100 for just as long.

DO NOT under any circumstances take what they offer you at a gun store. It'll probably be around 60% of the value of the rifle. It's a good starting point, but with a rifle almost 50 years old, they will undoubtedly tell you there's lots of things wrong with it and they will "graciously" take it off your hands for a measley sum. Post a pic or 5 of the rifle, there's lots of knowledgeable folks here, they can get you a good estimate.

Between Bushy's and DPMS, both are good rifles. I own two Bushy's and have shot 3-4 DPMS's that friends have owned. I don't know if it's telling or not, but I still have my Bushy's, and they've all sold theirs. Again, I'm not sure if that's telling or not, but I've had narry a problem with mine.

Zhur


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## JustRick (Sep 14, 2008)

If you are thinking "serious personal defense rifle for my home" you might consider something a little more emphatic than a .223. I'm (sort of) shopping for a .308 semiautomatic. Anyone have an old Belgian FAL they don't need any more?


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Old rifle like that..Sounds like a keeper to me:smt033


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## Will R. (Oct 14, 2008)

Thanks very much gentlemen.

I'll try to post some pics later today.

Will


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## Will R. (Oct 14, 2008)

Gents,

As promised here are the pics of the 7mm magnum. If you need closeups or other shots I can post those. Also, if you have any suggestions about how to clean this rifle let me know.

Thanks,
Will


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## BigMatt (Sep 4, 2008)

zhurdan said:


> DO NOT under any circumstances take what they offer you at a gun store. It'll probably be around 60% of the value of the rifle. It's a good starting point, but with a rifle almost 50 years old, they will undoubtedly tell you there's lots of things wrong with it and they will "graciously" take it off your hands for a measley sum. Post a pic or 5 of the rifle, there's lots of knowledgeable folks here, they can get you a good estimate.
> 
> Zhur


Where should one sell a gun? Also if you are interested in selling the 700 I might would like to have it.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

BigMatt

I'd much rather sell a rifle in a private transaction. That way, you control the price, not them. They don't need or want your rifle for anything more than turning a profit. A private purchaser will pay what you ask if they want it for their own personal reasons, least of which is going to be turning a profit. That's why I don't sell guns to gun stores, when I sell guns, which is rare.

Will R.
That is a gorgeous gun! I'd say it's a keeper. Personal history with the rifle aside, I wouldn't sell it. Is the bore in good shape? Use patches and plenty of Hoppes, followed by a nylon brush in the bore , followed by patches. As for the wood, a silicon cloth would be a start, but it looks likes theres some deep cleaning that needs to be done and I can't really offer any help there. Good luck.

Zhur


PS. What kind of scope is on it?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I'd take the Bushmaster over the DPMS, though I once owned a DPMS that ran 100%. Bushmaster strikes me as higher quality overall.

.223/5.56mm is _perfectly adequate_ for fighting, by the way, and is much less likely to exit a person or a house than a .30-caliber round. It's also much easier to shoot well at speed. My unit killed 120+ bad guys in Afghanistan with no complaints about 5.56mm "stopping power."


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Will R. said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am a long time handgun shooter but have zero experience with rifles.
> 
> ...


Hello Will, and welcome to the forum.

That's a pretty neat rifle you have there, but before you trade it off or sell it, there are a few things you might want to check. The first thing is what year it was made.

On Remington firearms, a "barrel code" was stamped on the barrel of each weapon. This can be de-coded to tell you the month and year of manufacture for any weapon. It's important on your gun because the Remington model 700 started production in 1962, and you said it's been in storage since the mid-sixties. If so, that might mean it was made and purchased in the early 60's, which means it might be a very early example, maybe even a first-year-of-production rifle. Unmodified 1st year guns can be worth much more to collectors than a simple old shooting-grade deer rifle is worth to a gun shop or hunter. I'd recommend checking this site:
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/barrelcodes
which shows how to read the barrel code and translate it to find the date info (increase the page/type size in your browser to better see the tiny barrel diagram). If it turns out your rifle was made in 1962, it is a first-year model; even a 1963 might be worth more than normal, if you find the right person to buy it. Here's a link to an online article about the Remington 700 series guns (pub 2001):
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_/ai_63922921

Another factor is the caliber. The 7mm Remington Magnum cartridge was introduced at the same time as the new Model 700 rifle, which would eventually replace the Remington 721/722 series guns. A very early or first-year gun in a newly-introduced caliber might help elevate the value considerably (again, for a collector or other interested party; not just anyone).

Finally, the scope and mount is not often seen nowadays. It appears to be a Bausch & Lomb mount, and may be a B&L scope as well. These early B&L scopes had no internal adjustment ability; they were just a telescopic sighting instrument with a cross-type reticle for aiming. All adjustments were contained in the mount/ring system. If this is a B&L mount, the front base adjustment screw will move the scope left and right to change the windage angle, and the screw adjustment on the rear of the scope base will cam the scope up and down to allow elevation movements. The scope is held in place using the rings and a spring-loaded plunger assembly that attaches it to the base system, but allows it to be easily removed. An interesting advantage to this system is all the adjustments are contained in the base mounts, so a person could buy multiple bases, put them on several guns, and transfer a single scope between them without losing zero! I've known several folks over the years that thought this mounting system was VERY cool, to the point that they had entire collections consisting ONLY of various scopes and mounts of this type.

Finally, in comparing the general outline of the scope to several photos in some old firearms books, the scope looks very similar to the higher magnification (for that era) B&L scopes. If I had to make a guess, I'd say it may be a 2.5 power to 8 power variable B&L; the name of that model was the BALvar 8 (*B*ausch *A*nd *L*omb *var*iable, 8 power maximum magnification). Not sure if or how it would be marked, but I assume there would be something similar engraved somewhere on the scope tube. If it is a BALvar 8, it probably has a tapered crosshair-type reticle, which was a new addition to that scope line when it was introduced in that scope model.

Hope this was helpful; I found it pretty interesting to research.

Oh, and I agree with everything Mike Barham said in the post above this one. :smt023


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## Will R. (Oct 14, 2008)

Thanks so much to all of you for the time and trouble you have taken to help me with my questions. 
It's very _deeply appreciated._

I believe this rifle is a keeper. I'll have my gunsmith check it, get it cleaned up and take it to the range.

DJ,

The scope _is_ a Bausch and Lomb BALvar 8 mounted on B&L base system exactly as you describe.

The barrel code is somewhat hard to read but looks like DJ 40 or DJ 4C (?) followed by 27016 and then Remington Model 700. I'll get to the website you've linked and try to determine the date of manufacture.

Thanks again.

Will


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Will R. said:


> The barrel code is somewhat hard to read but looks like DJ 40 or DJ 4C (?) followed by 27016 and then Remington Model 700. I'll get to the website you've linked and try to determine the date of manufacture.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Will


DJ = Sep 1962

-Jeff-


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## Will R. (Oct 14, 2008)

I apologize for reviving this topic, but I'm thinking of selling this rifle.

Could anyone take a stab at it's value?

Thanks.

Will


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