# Soldier needs a sidearm



## Anarius (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi eveyone! New poster here.

I am looking for advice from you guys since the sales people at my local gun shops can't seem to listen to me.

I am a Sergeant in the Army looking towards my second tour of Iraq this fall, and I'd like to take along a real sidearm. I was issued a M9 last time and it was a piece of crap! I have a little one-shot ass-saver in a wrist rig but the sidearm I need has to be powerful enough to knock someone down (I've had some problems with opiate users taking rounds from m16s/m4s and 9mm and not going down). Add to my problem that I have pretty big hands (I'm 6'5") I have a hard time gripping some of the smaller semi-autos.

I would prefer something in a .45acp since that ammunition is available (even though it would be from the Marine Corps) but that is not a vital requirement. I am more concerned with accuracy - I'd prefer a fixed barrel - and a Magazine capacity of at least 8 rounds.

I have considered and rejected the Springfield XD, on the basis that even with the spacer it is small for my hands and the grip safety could cause problems when I yank it out or have a bad grip and have to fire anyway. I'm not saying they're bad pistols...I'd take one to the range any day.

I am interested in the Hi-point .45, not only because it is cheap, but it has the size to be comfortable and the weight to stay on target. My problem with this pistol stems from some reviews I have read about it being picky on the ammo and I am unsure as to the accuracy of the weapon.

I have been told that a Glock would be a nice weapon, but none of the shops around here seem to have a decent sized version...they are all scaled towards concealed carry and therefore too small for my big paws.

So I'm in a dilemma! Any advice? Any info on good accessories or taclights to go along with it would be great as well.

Thanks!


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Mike will be around shortly and I'll warm you up for him. He will tell you that the Glock is the way to go. He's on the tail end of a tour so I'm sure he's full of advice that is useful. I shoot a Ruger P345 which is an 8+1 pistol and has a DA first shot. It's a Poly framed gun. I really like mine a lot. I wear large to XL gloves and it fills my hand pretty nicely and points naturally for me. I get nice tight groups from mine. If you have really big mitts you might look for a pistol that has a double stack type mag.


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## Anarius (Mar 8, 2008)

But what about my huge honkin' hands? I haven't been able to find a glock around here that my hands can fit.


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## sigshooter (Jan 12, 2008)

id check out some 1911's, hk's, sig p220 or maybe a ruger p90.

definitely wouldnt trust a hi-point to my life, especially in a dirty/dusty environment like iraq.


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## sharp (Dec 26, 2006)

Glock 21 or 21sf


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow, this is the first time I've heard someone call the M9 a piece of crap. Not only that, but the VERY first time I would ever think to see someone that would even consider a hipoint over a beretta. I don't even know what to say. Also, if you can't drop someone with the M9, then don't expect to do it with some kind of .45 just because the bullet is bigger. Also, if you even take an XD out of the holster and point it at someone who is coming at you, then the grip safety should be depressed no matter what (even if your hold on the gun is halfway conventional, which if you are really trained as a soldier it should be a proper grip no matter what kind of scenario you are in when you draw the weapon). Either way, even though I don't even know what to say about your comments....the glock may be the best option for you.

-Jeff-


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## txpete (Nov 29, 2006)

if you take a non issue weapon over there and use non issue ammo on someone in a shooting they will hang you.you should already know this as you said you have one tour down.as a NCO you know the rules or atleast I would hope so if your in charge of a squad of men.:smt169
pete


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## madman4049 (Mar 7, 2008)

txpete said:


> if you take a non issue weapon over there and use non issue ammo on someone in a shooting they will hang you.you should already know this as you said you have one tour down.as a NCO you know the rules or atleast I would hope so if your in charge of a squad of men.:smt169
> pete


It sucks but txpete is right. I agree wholeheartedly that you should be able to use a more effective sidearm but thems the rules. Good luck to you and make it back home safe.


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## txpete (Nov 29, 2006)

I wasn't fond of the M-9 but it was a better pistol than the worn out WW II issue colts or the S&W mod 10 38's for flight crew.I will be the first one to say that they need to go back to something that starts with a "4" and ends with a "5".
pete


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Hmmm. What exactly was the problem with the Beretta?


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## txpete (Nov 29, 2006)

the main problem right now is the mags or should I say the mags that don't work.the army has to buy from the cheapest bidder and thats what you get.
on this pistol it works mine was new just having to go into harms way with a 9mm and fmj ammo well its better than throwing rocks.
pete


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## madman4049 (Mar 7, 2008)

txpete said:


> the main problem right now is the mags or should I say the mags that don't work.the army has to buy from the cheapest bidder and thats what you get.
> on this pistol it works mine was new just having to go into harms way with a 9mm and fmj ammo well its better than throwing rocks.
> pete


True. If I were him I would purchase my own mags and spring set and when he gets back in country throw his in his go bag for the next go round and put the issues back before turn in. But yeah fmj doesn't do a whole lot. If anything that would help with reliability a little. I think I remember you asking about lights as well. I would go with the Surefire G2 or the G2Z. Get the LED lamp though as running through batteries every 60 minutes your gonna run out of batteries quick in the sandbox. Both are affordable and durable. I have had and carried the G2 for about 3 years now no problem and that was overseas and here for daily carry.


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## madman4049 (Mar 7, 2008)

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?search_keywords=M9&category_selector=all_products

I believe this page will help you out.


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## Anarius (Mar 8, 2008)

Firstly, depending on your brigade SOP you ARE allowed your own sidearm. I know they said that back in 2005 and then took all the sidearms from the 101st and 82nd guys, but we didn't have a problem. I was however advised to get something that fires service issue .45acp since it is still available or stick with the 9mm. I'm not saying all M9s are crap...just every one I have ever seemed to be issued. I could shake my hand and rattle the slide and I was never able to get off a clip without a failure to feed. The 2 mags I got with the weapon were new, but would private market mags really help that much? I just locked the damn thing in a foot locker after my second month and carried extra ammo for my M4.

I was asking about the Hi-point because I've never seen one, but like I said, the local firearms shops are pushing everyone towards them.

As to what I said about the XD...it just worries me that if I'm wearing gloves or the lanyard gets caught then I might not be able get that grip safety depressed. The one I was looking at in the showroom required a bit of pressure past a natural grip to depress it far enough. Then again, I do have massive hands.

So, maybe I should just invest in a quality Berreta 92 and some nice mags? That way I could just swap it out and return to an issue one if I need to?

What '92 models are available? Recommendations?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Can I ask what brigade you’re in? I’ve never seen a soldier with a personal sidearm, and I’ve seen soldiers from 82nd, 101st, 10th Mountain, 173rd ABCT, 218th BCT, and 29th BCT, plus assorted smaller-sized units. All had M9s or occasionally M11s. Even the SF secret squirrels in the camp adjacent us roll with issue M9s and M4s.

As I understand CENTCOM General Order #1, possession of a personal firearm in theater is punishable by UCMJ action under Article 92. A brigade commander cannot override GO #1.

The main problem with the M9 is Check-Mate magazines. If circumstances force you to use them, keep them very clean and load no more than ten rounds. I had my wife send me OEM Beretta mags.

Keep in mind that spare parts are totally unavailable for anything but issue weapons. Our SASC here only carries bench stock for US issue weapons. I can't imagine even in Iraq the equivalent facility has parts for XDs, Glocks, or - God forbid - Hi-Points.


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## txpete (Nov 29, 2006)

in 20+ years in the army I was only in one unit that allowed P.O.W.that was flight crew in the 2nd ACR up on the east german border.our col signed off on it.in the 1st cav if you got caught with a civi pistol you would get a long vacation in kansas with a cell mate named bruce:smt033.


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## Wadcutter (Aug 13, 2007)

Anyone else smell something funny?
Do a websearch of the OP's user name. Lots of references linked to the on-line fantasy war games and similar.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Oh, and I've never even _seen_ a round of .45ACP in OEF.


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## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

Altough it's pretty obvious this is a false story I will answer honestly what I would do if such a situation were true.

Buy a HK45. Replaceable back strap to adjust to your hand, 10 round magazine capacity. Carry DA+locked, SA+locked, or DA without a safety on (decocker system). It's as accurate as any .45 chambered pistol and super reliable. It's light which is a plus for carrying around.

There's a few people who seem to think that the HK45 is the .45acp pistol that will dethrone the 1911 for serious service usage. Arguably a HK pistol is as reliable as a Glock. 

All that being said, if you do happen to need a part, you won't get it "over there".


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

If he can carry wat ever he wants thigs sure have changed since I was active duty. We carried what we were issued.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

This thread needs to be locked down, if not deleted.

Promotes illegal activity, minimally, posession of contraband, prosecutable under UCMJ.


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## txpete (Nov 29, 2006)

+1

pete


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

:smt167


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## madman4049 (Mar 7, 2008)

Ditto on being shut down I think we've all been had (at least for a little while)


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## Wadcutter (Aug 13, 2007)

tnoisaw said:


> If he can carry wat ever he wants thigs sure have changed since I was active duty. We carried what we were issued.


I was always allowed to carry what I wanted when I was in, and I was told I wanted to carry an M-16A2, M-9, M-249, or M-60. :smt033


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## txpete (Nov 29, 2006)

the armsroom guys was so nice.I'll take one of those and one of these oh and please fill out a request tomorrow for a hi-point please this M-9 just doesn't fit my hands:smt082:smt082:smt082
pete


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## madman4049 (Mar 7, 2008)

txpete said:


> the armsroom guys was so nice.I'll take one of those and one of these oh and please fill out a request tomorrow for a hi-point please this M-9 just doesn't fit my hands:smt082:smt082:smt082
> pete


Yeah. I would trust an M-9 over a hi-point anyday for reliability.:anim_lol::smt021


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## Anarius (Mar 8, 2008)

Okay, I think I may need to address some issues and clarify some problems here.

First, at NO TIME when I was in Iraq did I have a personal side arm. I was with 2-43 108th (2005-2006). 2-43 is now part of another brigade (32nd) and I am now in the Army Reserve. I was issued an m4 and a m9 which as I described was junk. While in OIF I did indeed see m11s being used (Marine Corps) and SF. Some other soldiers at the fire base I spent most of my time stationed at had personal side arms...one guy had a huge honkin' blackhawk-style revolver. I never heard of any of those soldiers getting in trouble. They did not flaunt them, but did not seem to have any problems.

Now in my reserve unit, we have just started planning for deployment prep to go to Iraq this fall. One of these briefings included a weapons review, as this unit is very, very light on sidearms (none) Saws (2 in the battery) and have no crew served weapons. I raised the point of IF we would get sidearms, and was told 'no', I specifically asked if we would be allowed to bring our own. I was told that was up to Brigade, and the answer was probably yes, but to make sure I got something 9mm, or .45 but that an ammo supply would be questionable but some units still have access to the .45 round in country so it would not be a big problem.

I am looking for a hand gun that I can keep for fun and range shooting, but IF ALLOWED would be usable on deployment. I do not know what exact regs would apply, I am only going off what I have been told! I know the general orders, but we were allowed to buy our own body armor not that long ago weren't we? I was allowed to buy my own plate carrier and I think most chains still allow even that!

On the basis of that 'if allowed' I (as I said) would not like a XD unless I got it ONLY for range shooting, unless I get a chance to actually fire one since (as I said) the only one I've handled (a 9mm w/4" barrel)

As I admitted, I do not know anything about hi-points other than what the pushy sales guys have told me...I have seen one but they would not allow me to handle it as it was 'sold'.

I did look at a Glock 21 today (not the SF version) and it fit my hand ok, but I still think I'd need a grip to make it more comfortable and a better grip.

As to being some online fantasy player, I do NOT belong to any of these 'Google' forums...I belong to two other forums (one car site, and one booksite), not 'twc.com', 'devientart' or 'eliteskills' or any other crap like that.

I am NOT promoting illegal action...how you infer that I don't know. I realize I should have been more clear but I think if some of you had read my original post more closely and ASKED for clarification then a lot of this could have been avoided.

My thanks to those of you that answered honestly, and I would like to know more about fixes for service M9s (although it is also against Army regs to modify a issue firearm with non-issue parts, I don't see anyone crying 'ucmj' to the people who suggest spring swapping).


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

For us prior military I hope you can see our skepticism. We’ve dealt with a few trolls around her so when a post like this pops up we will question it. I will give you the benefit of the doubt- can’t say that about the others here though.


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## Anarius (Mar 8, 2008)

I can certainly understand that there are people out 'here' trying to stir up trouble. Thank you for understanding. By all means ask any questions of me you feel you have to...but its a bit disheartening to come back after one day to 2 pages of sniping.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Anarius said:


> Firstly, depending on your brigade SOP you ARE allowed your own sidearm.





Anarius said:


> I am NOT promoting illegal action...how you infer that I don't know.


The Internet knows all..... beware the Internet...:smt119


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## Anarius (Mar 8, 2008)

Anarius said:


> ...I specifically asked if we would be allowed to bring our own. I was told that was up to Brigade, and the answer was probably yes


Our advisor's said it was up to brigade...what the heck else should I go off of? I would assume (my mistake) that if it was up to my brigade (which you guys say its not, but I don't know that) then it would be up to others as well.


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## madman4049 (Mar 7, 2008)

I would recommend you read into the regs yourself to clarify what is actually acceptable. Often times I have asked one of my superiors something and after further reading discovered that the answer given was not the correct answer. As far as personal firearms I would say that even if authorized (be careful in what you choose). Changing mags or springs does not affect the lethality of said firearm but like pointed out it too is modification of said duty weapon.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I can't even count the numbers of times my superiors have given me erroneous information.

If your unit is short on M9s, you should be able to borrow some from TACOM at your mobilization station. My unit did that, and all our TACOM pistols were in good condition (I inspected every last one of them).

In any event, carrying personal weapons in theater is against CENTCOM General Order #1 and a breach of UCMJ, so there's really not much left to discuss. Thread closed.


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