# What type of Vithavouri-powder for...



## Sandworm (Apr 29, 2008)

9x19, ported 6" barrel standard rifling, Fiocchi 147gr. Jacketed Flatnose. Magtech brass.
Goal: To linger on a Power Factor of 135.

Any idea of what Vitha-powder I should go for?

I am just getting into the dark art of handloading, and thought I would start out easy, and ask for anyone elses experience.
Of course, since the barrel is 6" and ported, I would need to play a bit with the grains and a chrono to get there, but a starting point-tip would help me!

I'd like something with as little smoke and recoil as possible, still powerfull enough to tip the poppers in IPSC.

Thanks in advance!!
:reading:


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Here's their webb page where you should be able to find what you want on their charts. Good luck.:smt033
http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/index.php


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## Sandworm (Apr 29, 2008)

Mmmnyeeah... but I was thinking of 1. hand experience.
The link yo showed me, tell me nothing, but a company saying this xx is best for xx in an xx environment... -That is in a lab.
I'd like hands-on experience.
Trust me I am not stoopid. I have seen all the formal 'databases'. They tell me nothing. That is why I asked exactly what I have plans for.

How come the different powdermakers always have different bulletweights and details. How come they never compare the same things to make people understand the differences, without having to try out stuff??? Commercialism? - Never mind... ...I stand by my first request... Any other inputs?

"3N38: A powder for the high velocity loads of the 9mm Luger and the .38 Super with moderate bullet weight. Designed specially for competitive handgun shooting."
Now, it doesn't tell me much does it??!


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## PanaDP (Jul 20, 2007)

Sandworm said:


> "3N38: A powder for the high velocity loads of the 9mm Luger and the .38 Super with moderate bullet weight. Designed specially for competitive handgun shooting."
> Now, it doesn't tell me much does it??!


So apparently you can't read? It tells you exactly what you need to know in a form that is useful to everyone. Lab results are useful because they tell you what the powder does, rather than what the powder does when it is affected by wind and someone else's gun.

Lab conditions are applicable everywhere to the point of knowing where to start. What someone tests in _their_ gun and on _their_ range and with _their_ loads are what tell you nothing, other than what someone else likes.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Sandworm,
I understand what you're out for, but your questions are probably way too specific for this forum.

I gather you're into competition, so you should go to brian's forum, attended mainly by pistol & revolver competitors. Helluva lots of info on 9 mm reloads:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=82

I asked the guys something on .38 special and Vithavuori.

It turned out that suggestions coming from this forum were pretty similar.

Specifically, they prefer faster burning powders like VV N320 and N310.

I'm still using VVN340 with 158 gr SWCs and the accuracy (as showed me by a shooting instructor) is formidable.

Everything else is subtleties for making major, for optimizing recoil, maybe to achieve that kind of super-accuracy which you may yearn for after years of shooting.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

You should be able to get there with either N320, N330 or N340.

You need 918 FPS for 135PF at 147 Grains.

I have averaged 917 FPS with 147 Grain Berry Plated RNDS Bullets and 4 Grains N340 at 1.142 OAL in a 4.25 inch S&W M&P9.

Your longer barrel and thicker jacket bullets will probably require a bit of adjustment but this would be a good start and is low on the chart for HPXTP bullets.

Get a manual or load chart and verify what you are doing is safe. They may have changed since I ran the tests noted.

Enjoy but stay safe.

:smt1099

PS: McCoy, IPSC doesn't require 1 hole accuracy so their loads are not necessarliy fine tuned for accuracy.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

> PS: McCoy, IPSC doesn't require 1 hole accuracy so their loads are not necessarliy fine tuned for accuracy


.

Mmmm...
reckon I'll have to read some around, I still don't understand zilch on IPSC, IDPA, ICORE and stuff...

:reading:


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Mccoy,
Perhaps this lame explanation will help.
The only competitive shooting I have been involved in is IPSC/USPSA so if I am wrong with any of this someone step in and straighten me out. IPSC/USPSA is an action shooting sport where you many times shoot on the move through or around obstacles and the time it takes to complete the course is every bit as important as where your bullet hits. Your gun and ammo need to be accurate but the score zones are relatively generous as compared to Bullsey and other absolute accuracy shooting sports. The recoil energy curve which impacts recovery time and therefore time to second shot is probably more important than the last 1/4 inch of shot group accuracy. Powder charge has to be adequate to meet specified energy requirements (bullet weight x velocity/1000) but rate of acceleration adjustments thru selection of fast vs. slow powder can alter recovery time. Powder selection can also impact accuracy so you have to make trade offs. With ported barrels you have an additional element to adjust in the powder characteristics required to make the ports work for you.
The targets may be large in the Bullsey sport but you need one hole capability if you expect to be at all competative which makes absolute accuracy more critical than recoil recovery speed.
If I recall correctly, you are shooting with a group of Bullsey shooters so probably want to stick with your ultra accurate loads for the time being. Its all fun anyway.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks for the explanation TOF, now I have a clear picture at least on IPSC/USPSA and understand all the deal about bullet velocity and stuff. 
As a matter of fact, now I'm attending two different ranges, one where they shoot bullseye, the other outdoors, where you have a choice to do what you wish and those who run the range train in IPSC and IDPA.
Italy sucks as far as avalaibility of firearm accessories go, but at least in my place ranges abound, they are opening a third one, strictly indoors good for the windy and rainy witry days. All within 20-30 minutes driving!
I briefly saw some training the other day and recognize your description of IPSC.
Right now I'm still in the phase where I have to get familiar with the gun, so I'm mostly shooting bullseye to get over the beginner's level.
I understand though that a gunslinger MUST be good at rapid fire as well, that's what it's all about in an emergency situation after all.
Last day I was on my own, so I approached the target at about 5 yards and discharged my barrel at full velocity.
It's undoubtedly fun, I'm already training to dry fire at hi-speed, it's all about working out your finger and forearm muscles.

About competition: I still do not understand what kind of contests I may eventually enter in Italy with my revolver. Rapid fire, like ISPC, they say you have some hope only with the .45 ACP, since unloading and reloading is so much faster and that gives you a definite edge. As far as I understood, everyone uses the S&W 625 JM, more or less accuratized.
I'll ask around and try to understand if I have an outlet for my S&W 627. Otherwise I might partecipate into some contests just for fun, keeping perfecting myself in both bullseye and rapid fire, I like both.

After I'm able to work out my anticipation and flinching problems.

About VV powders: Im still using the N340, I finished my first pound can of it. I find it very convenient to handload, reliable and consistent weighings, right quantity to allow a visual check before seating, so I'm not in a hurry to try others.

I'll do that of course, I got a 500 box of 148 grs WC's which I may use with minimal powder loads, hopefully achieving a minimal recoil and 'waste' all of 'em in rapid firing. 2-3 seconds and 8 rounds go away if you're good. With my gun model, Jerry Miculek just did it in one sec.
It's fun to hear the sound of a machine-gun produced by a revolver. i think i'll have myself timed !


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## Sandworm (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks for the replies!
Sorry for the late response, but has been away for a match in Germany! :mrgreen:


Brian Enos forum, now why didn't I think of that. I hang around there sometimes too. 

Thanks for all the help though! :smt023


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