# Open Carry: MERGED



## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

I know this subject has been bantered around quite a bit. Until recently, I was a huge fan of open carry, but the more I think about it, it seems as thought the element of surprise is critical if you're attacked and open carry takes that away from you. Also, since we still seem to have a "gun phobic" public I think I would always be looking over my shoulder wondering if a Mom with her kids in the convenience store would get freaked out and call the police because little Johnny saw a "man with a gun." 

Since it's so easy to keep handguns concealed and there are so many fine shooting small guns out there, I'm leaning towards being against open carry, even though the people who know me and listen to my show, may find this statement by me quite puzzling.

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of open carry. 

What do you think? I'm sure there are people reading this from open carry states. What say you?


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I have nothing against it but you won't see me doing it. I prefer most people not to know I have a gun on me.


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## tropicmaster (Dec 20, 2009)

Todd said:


> I have nothing against it but you won't see me doing it. I prefer most people not to know I have a gun on me.


Very much a beginner here but I would think an open carry piece would preclude a lot of possible bad scenarios. If a bad guy sees you openly armed isnt he likely to move on to another less prepared victim? From what I have read and experinced these types typically look for " easy marks" and an open carry piece is obviously not " easy money" ? If my thinking is flawed please feel free to point out my mistake. I would think that the more poeple who know you carry ,the less liklihood you will be approached.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

> I have nothing against it but you won't see me doing it. I prefer most people not to know I have a gun on me.


+1 
I have open carried in Colorado, but that was in a large group. The only people I've seen open carry around here are plain clothes LEO with a badge right next to their holster.

At 6'1" 240 lbs, I already don't look like an easy mark...I don't need or want the extra attention I could get from a nervous bystander and (IMO) the chances of drawing that attention are higher than of scaring away a BG.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm all for it if that's your cup of tea, I've open carried on more than a few occasions, in VA concealed carry is a no-go in restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages, but open carry was perfectly legal so every time we went to a place that served it was OC. My wife OC'd a couple of times in PA as well.

I don't buy into the easy target aspect, I think there's only been one "documented" incident where someone was targeted that OC'd, he was walking his dog at night, *on schedule *and was accosted, I forget the outcome of that one.

There's been more cases where someone OC'ing has not been targeted in a robbery scenario and shot the attacker.

From the VCDL


> On Saturday, a violent criminal shot a store clerk, had the customers in the store lined up, and while reloading his revolver told the customers that he was going to kill them all.
> 
> Then a person open carrying a single-action Colt .45 came in and shot the criminal in the stomach, saving at least six or seven lives.
> 
> I received a detailed account from a VCDL member who was at the scene (but not the person with the .45). One of the things I was told is how some of the customers were telling the police that the open-carrier was a hero and how he saved their lives.


Open carry does not really fit in with my lifestyle, mode of dress and comings and goings. Here in IA while OC (in incorporated limits) is legal with a permit to carry weapons, the Sheriff's have the authority to pull a permit for almost any reason and many here don't want to push the issue and have their permit pulled for scaring some sheep.

Like everything else firearm related there are advantages/disadvantages to both concealed carry and open carry. If I lived in a warmer climate, like Texas, FL, AZ etc and OC were an option I might take it up as to not have to bother with a cover garment that can be unpleasant in the heat and would allow me to not sacrifice caliber or capacity by going with a smaller gun that is easier to conceal. A draw stroke executed from open carry can be more smooth with no garment to move out of the way. As for drawing more attention, there's ways around that, if you're carrying a black gun in black holster with a black background (clothes) it's about as unnoticeable as it can get.

The obvious drawback is that the possibility for law enforcement interaction does increase and even if it's legal you can be "harassed" pending on political climate. I applaud those that go out and do it well, without a chip on their shoulder and not seeking a run in with LEOs, but there are some that I think go a little to far in promoting their cause.

....To be continued...


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

I don't think I'd open carry myself, but I fully support allowing it. A big +1 to everything VAMarine said above. :smt023 
I'm quite happy to live in a state with no restrictions on open carry, other than the usual weapons-free zones (courthouse, etc).

KG


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

tropicmaster said:


> ... I would think an open carry piece would preclude a lot of possible bad scenarios. If a bad guy sees you openly armed isnt he likely to move on to another less prepared victim?


Maybe... or he might just make you his first order of business! For instance, if you were in a public place where someone entered, armed and intending to start something.... the last thing you would want to do, is stand out!

...the element of suprise


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

I have no problem with open carry, but I prefer to carry concealed.


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## mikej997 (Jan 26, 2008)

I have open carried in the past here in Colorado. Generally say, during hunting season or something. I don't do that much anymore as I now have my CCW permit. I don't have anything against open carry and I support all of our gun rights, including open carry. I am of the belief that you give an inch, they (gun grabbers) will take a mile. In my experience however, as stated above, I found that I frequently got to visit with LE due to somebody freaking out and calling 911 about some guy with a gun. You can't really fault the LE officers since they are obliged to respond to such a call since they don't know the details. On the bad side of those interactions is that I've been pressured to leave, remove the gun, or conceal it (if I have permit). I can only hope that the person who called the LE would get educated about gun laws here in Colorado, but that is probably unlikely. Lately I have taken to only concealed carry as it avoids all the hassle.


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## Jiu-jitsu fighter (May 26, 2008)

I have mixed opinions. It dont think I would open carry but I would love not having to worry if the bottom of my holster is showing or if I am printing. Maybe like a conceal open type thing. 

Now one thing you have to watch out for is someone seeing it coming up behind you and trying ot take it. If I was going to open carry it I would definitely get a retention holster. Especially with the thumb lever where you cant see the lever.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

More food for though regarding the element of surprise vs. deterrence.

Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw, GA



> The scout saw that two of the customers were wearing holstered 1911 Springfield Mil-Spec .45 pistols, and he immediately turned and left the store.
> Meanwhile, conscientious Cobb County Police Officer D. Lowe had noticed suspicious cars sitting behind the restaurant in the dark and decided to investigate. He caught men with masks and rifles who had been preparing to rob the Wafflehouse. The criminals informed the police that they had changed their mind upon discovering armed customers and were waiting for Matt and J.P. to leave. Ironically, the police car was pulling in to the parking lot just as Matt and J.P. were driving away. In other words, had Matt and J.P. not been armed, the robbery probably would have occurred before the police intervened.


This could have gone either way, as they were visible, the robbers could have come in shooting as they had visibly armed targets, thankfully it seems they were just in it for the money and didn't want to fight over it.


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## Gunners_Mate (Feb 17, 2010)

Ohh, good thread, many great points brought up for both sides, and I quite agree with both. It has it's goods and bads, pros and cons, so I'll skip that part, as the better arguments have been made, and go straight into an issue I have with OP's phraseology

"I'm leaning towards being against open carry"- OP

now it's one thing to say that you are leaning towards not believing in open carry being such a great thing, but to state that you are leaning towards being "against" it sounds to me as if you might start to advocate against it. The last thing we need is pro-second amendment folks handing over thing's like open carry because this just helps the anti-seconds' to further build up the slippery slope. 

you give them open carry due to no longer believing in it's effectiveness and next thing you know they've taken concealed as well. I know I sound paranoid, but this is one of my greatest fears' so bear with my speculation. 

and if I read too far into what may simply be a misunderstanding of words, I do apologize, I simply desire to clarify and square away this matter. 

In any case, all that I ask of any of you, whether you believe in the effectiveness of open carry or not, is to practice what you preach, and surely to present your case and ideals when given the opertunity to share (as you may just enlighten someone with good wholesome logic), but please don't act upon your personal ideals remove certain liberties which are rare enough and have far to many enemies as it is.


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## terryger (Feb 1, 2010)

what has cropped up here in california is a group that is pushing open carry which they falsely believe will force ccw laws to be relaxed out here.

the peoblem is open carry is only legal with and unloaded firearm. some wear the gun on one side and keep ammo on the other. whetehr this is legal is very gray ubder the law. 

but let's say it is. you are basically carrying an empty weapon. i don't care how fast you think you are you will never get it loaded before you're dead. 

this also draws calls by the public to police of "a man with a gun" which will be investigated and though you will eventually be relased you still get the hassel.

along with that you are a taget for a banger that wnats yoru weapon and you have no way to stop him from getting it because his weapon is already cocked and locked. 


i have no problem with people having the right to do something or making a statement but discreation is the better part of valor. :smt023


if you see a waepon on my hip you are aware of what i may do. if you see me with a cc you have no idea what i may or may not which gives me an advantage and puts you in a position of doubt. a place i 'd much rather be:smt023


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

terryger said:


> *if you see a waepon on my hip* you are aware of what i may do.* if you see me with a cc* you have no idea what i may or may not which gives me an advantage and puts you in a position of doubt. a place i 'd much rather be:smt023


Huh?

According to your post I can see your weapon either way...how's that going to influence one to either have no doubt or doubt?

Ideally no one should see your concealed weapon.


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## Gunners_Mate (Feb 17, 2010)

VAMarine said:


> Huh?
> 
> According to your post I can see your weapon either way...how's that going to influence one to either have no doubt or doubt?
> 
> Ideally no one should see your concealed weapon.


he may have been trying to be metaphorical.

clearly just because he's carrying a concealed weapon you can still see him. granted he did add the with a conceal carry part, in which we must give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant to say if you see him during a time he is CC and dont know any otherwise he has the surprise factor, which he prefers.


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## terryger (Feb 1, 2010)

VAMarine said:


> Huh?
> 
> According to your post I can see your weapon either way...how's that going to influence one to either have no doubt or doubt?
> 
> Ideally no one should see your concealed weapon.


sorry for the play on words but if you read them properly they are correct

if you see *ME* with a weapon on my hip

if you see *ME * with a cc(concealed carry)

if it is concealed carry you cannot see the weapon though you can still see me.

and you are correct, that is why it is called concealed carry

make more sense now?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Ahhhhhhhh...thing are getting a little more clear...

Excuse me while I go knock the cobwebs from my skull.


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## BowhuntnHoosier (Feb 7, 2010)

Not against OC at all. But I will have mine in CC. I can see reason for both but I prefer those around me to not know I have a weapon.


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## jediwebdude (Nov 30, 2008)

The biggest concerns I see for open carry are:

1) Open carry may serve as a deterrent for some criminals, but as a big target for others. What I mean by the latter is, a determined criminal may choose to eliminate the immediate threat, and the citizens who are open carrying will likely be deemed as an immediate threat. Scenario: organized group of criminals raid a bank during business hours and their first line of action is dealing with immediate threats (security guards, employees near phones, and customers with guns strapped to their sides).

2) In a criminal activity situation where open carriers are present may cause confusion for responding officers as they determine which individuals are criminals and which are innocent bystanders. An individual practicing open carry could serve as a distraction as officers attempt to discern. 

3) Similar to #2, if a CCW chooses to engage the criminals, an open carrier in the immediate area may be misidentified, resulting in the good guys shooting at each other.

4) Open carry is so out of the ordinary in our society, I would expect people's responses to range from nervousness to calling 911. Having officers responding to investigate law-abiding citizens toting guns to their side is a waste of officers' time.

If the state of Texas ever passed a low to allow for open carry, I would never take advantage of it. I fear it would bring on more issues than good. Conceal carry is my preference mostly for safety reasons.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

In Virginia, open carry is the default or normal mode of carrying a defensive arm. Concealed carry requires a CHP.. which means you're asking permission from your servants to practice a fundamental, basic right (not a good thing).

I have been OC'ing for going on three years now on a regular basis and have only had one bad encounter. That was from a citizen who claimed he was a retired LEO (not sure I believed him). I have never had a bad encounter with a Virginia state or local LEO to date. All have been positive or total non-events.

I also carry concealed when I deem such to serve my interests and needs at the time. But most often, I OC. Virginia is the most gun-friendly and gun-lenient state in the South and it never ceases to amaze me what a non-issue OC'ing really is here. And my reasons for OC'ing?

My knees no longer afford me the ability to run away from trouble or to stand and fight as I was once capable of doing. When CC'ing, I look like everyone else. However, when my little friend is visiting my strong side, it speaks silently to those who may wish to do me harm.. at least, that's the hope. I'd rather turn a BG away by him seeing my friend than have him attack me and then pray I can respond in kind.

In either case, OC definitely plays an important roll for those who chose to carry a defensive sidearm.


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## Coltcobra (Mar 18, 2010)

Todd said:


> I have nothing against it but you won't see me doing it. I prefer most people not to know I have a gun on me.


I totally agree.But I have not found an easy way to conceal in the summer time.


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## Lethaltxn (Mar 21, 2010)

I think the big upside to the open carry is that if you do want to conceal carry you can and if you weapon is accidentally revealed (you sit down and shirt rides up, getting out of the car and shirt rides up, grabbing wallet ect.) you won't get hammered for it. JMO.


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

Just carry, how you do it up to you and the laws in your state. If you want to OC, go for it!! If you prefer to CC, great!!! 

Who are we to judge what FREEDOMS are ok and which ones aren't ???


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## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

I open carry all the time...sometimes I get a funny look, but most people don't even pay attention, though it's not as uncommon here in AZ...a lot of people do it.

Open vs concealed...I'm all for both, just depends on the situation which I choose to do.

I agree though that *MOST* criminals will pass on a person open carrying and move on to an easier mark.


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## Handgun World (Oct 28, 2009)

Lethaltxn said:


> I think the big upside to the open carry is that if you do want to conceal carry you can and if you weapon is accidentally revealed (you sit down and shirt rides up, getting out of the car and shirt rides up, grabbing wallet ect.) you won't get hammered for it. JMO.


I completely agree with this benefit of open carry. It would be nice to not have to worry about printing. I would still conceal, but not worry about the gun showing.


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## Mdnitedrftr (Aug 10, 2006)

As stated before, it'd just be nice to not have to worry about your gun becoming uncovered/printing.

If OC was allowed in my state, I would take advantage of it, not all the time though.


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## eldirector (Apr 28, 2009)

Indiana does not specify the method of carry for licensed individuals. That said, I alternate between OC and CC depending on my activities. I will CC if I am in a location where a visible firearm would likely attract unnecessary attention (church, for instance). However, my default is open carry. It is more comfortable, and I simply don't have to worry that "someone may see it". 

Sure, some folks may notice. Some may even question me. I see it as an opportunity to remind them that yes, a regular guy can indeed protect himself and his family. 

It doesn't really matter HOW you carry, just please do!


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## wjh2657 (Jun 18, 2008)

Whether OC would be a deterrent would depend more on the mental makeup and mission of the BG. 

If he is primarily a thief and not really prepared to kill, then OC would deter him. If he is set against taking casualties, then OC again would deter him.

If he is person capable of murder and not really concerned with the danger to himself (Psychopathic,druggie, professional criminal or Gang Banger) then OC just guaranteed that you will be the first person to go down. 

I prefer the edge of CC and the ability to possibly avoid violence.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

NYS is odd in that it mandates concealed carry. While I wouldn't openly carry a firearm myself, I don't see concealed carry as some "extra" privilege.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Always Carry never tell. 

I have nothing against open carry. I will choose not to.

RCG


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

I like laws that allow open carry as an option. It just gives you another choice.

Personally, open carry isn't my cup of tea.

It doesn't matter how deranged, crazy, insane, drunk, or high on drugs a shooter is, he will notice a person carrying a gun and shoot in that direction first. 

Bad guys who want a gun know where they can get one if you open carry. If they catch you buy surprise, outnumber you, and/or there are a lot of innocent bystanders around, you might go home without your gun. Don't expect innocent bystanders to jump in and help you. You've got a gun. They may think you're one of the bad guys. More often than not though, they just don't want to get involved.

Open carry alarms citizens and can result in more places being posted with "No Firearms" signs.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

MorganOverlook said:


> Open carry alarms citizens and can result in more places being posted with "No Firearms" signs.


Not to mention the proposing of such legislation...

Regarding OC in California:



> AB 1934, as amended, Saldana. Firearms. _
> Existing law, subject to exceptions, makes it an offense to carry
> a concealed handgun on the person or in a vehicle, as specified.
> Existing law provides that firearms carried openly in belt holsters
> ...


If this were to be passed, it would tend to negate the OC crowd's "A right not exercised is a right lost"

My hat is off to the people in Cali for trying to reform the system etc and I hope this legislation gets tanked. If it passes I do wonder what other states may try to follow along with similar legislation.


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

It wouldn't surprise me for other states to try and follow. California always seems to lead the way on some of this stuff.

Like I said, I like open carry because it gives you another choice. If you are carrying concealed and the gun prints or shows a bit, it's no big deal in my state. Open carry is allowed. 

What lawmakers don't seem to understand is that handgun laws don't really make people safer. They serve to disarm law abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of the criminals, the criminally insane, and all the other people that the law says shouldn't ever be in possession of a firearm but always manage to lay their hands on one whenever they want.

You can't legislate responsible behavior. You can legislate severe consequences for irresponsible behavior, but that's about it.


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## SK2344 (Feb 13, 2010)

*I hope not!*

I love guns and carry one every day of my life but I am against OC and always will be. We no longer live in the Wild Wild West and even then they started to ban Guns while in town. I feel that Open Carry will cause more problems than most people realize. Just think of the Police Officer who has to respond to a crime situation with every one carrying a gun on their hip. Just think about it!!!!!!:smt073


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## braxtynh (May 20, 2010)

*Open carry opposed to CCW*

As of right now i am open carrying my pistol (NC doesn't have strict laws on open carrying) just no parks, schools, government buildings etc. But me and my friend were talking about me open carrying and he was saying how he wouldn't open carry because he wouldn't want people to be scared shitless seeing a guy walk in a store with a pistol on his side. I don't mind the attention (you tend to get better service ) i just wanted to get a little feed back on this situation (I intend to get my CCW at some point)


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

braxtynh said:


> As of right now i am open carrying my pistol (NC doesn't have strict laws on open carrying) just no parks, schools, government buildings etc. But me and my friend were talking about me open carrying and he was saying how he wouldn't open carry because he wouldn't want people to be scared shitless seeing a guy walk in a store with a pistol on his side. I don't mind the attention (you tend to get better service ) i just wanted to get a little feed back on this situation (I intend to get my CCW at some point)


I don't know of the advantages of open carry except maybe around the gun range or your own property for comfort and fast draw ability. 
In public, you no longer possess 100% element of surprise. There still remains many possible situations where you can still possess the element of surprise in your favor. In a situation where you do not have the element of surprise just because you carry exposed you may become a target or part of the perpetrators plan, the perp knowing he has you to consider as a threat. they or he/she might get the drop on you
If you do enter a school or building where you say you are not allowed to carry your pistol . People will take notice of that also good and bad people . WELL it must be in his vehicle lets go take it from the vehicle..Carrying exposed word travels quick, depending on the size of your town city or neighborhood. 
GET your CCW and good luck my friend
Use the exposed at the range or out in the hunting field and around the house ,keeps solicitors away


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

pic said:


> I don't know of the advantages of open carry except maybe around the gun range or your own property for comfort and fast draw ability.
> In public, you no longer possess 100% element of surprise. There still remains many possible situations where you can still possess the element of surprise in your favor. In a situation where you do not have the element of surprise just because you carry exposed you may become a target or part of the perpetrators plan, the perp knowing he has you to consider as a threat. they or he/she might get the drop on you
> If you do enter a school or building where you say you are not allowed to carry your pistol . People will take notice of that also good and bad people . WELL it must be in his vehicle lets go take it from the vehicle..Carrying exposed word travels quick, depending on the size of your town city or neighborhood.
> GET your CCW and good luck my friend
> Use the exposed at the range or out in the hunting field and around the house ,keeps solicitors away


I agree 100%. I wouldnt open carry on a bet!


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

It is a right that everyone is supposed to have, and I want that right, too, in my own locale.

But, concealed carry makes a lot more sense, for the reasons already stated, and many more. In my own case, I want the element of surprise, should I ever have to use my handgun, because I am most definitely not looking for a 'fair' fight.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Bisley said:


> It is a right that everyone is supposed to have, and I want that right, too, in my own locale.
> 
> But, concealed carry makes a lot more sense, for the reasons already stated, and many more. In my own case, I want the element of surprise, should I ever have to use my handgun, because I am most definitely not looking for a 'fair' fight.


It might be a "right" but that doesnt mean the local LEO's wont arrest you for being a public nuisance!

If you scare the hell out of everyone that see's you open carry...someone isnt going to like it!


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

There are a few of us that will attempt to keep that right for those of you that would let it die. 

It would be a shame for you to scare your neighbors by letting them know you could handle your own problems.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

pic said:


> I don't know of the advantages of open carry except maybe around the gun range or your own property for comfort and fast draw ability.
> In public, you no longer possess 100% element of surprise. There still remains many possible situations where you can still possess the element of surprise in your favor. In a situation where you do not have the element of surprise just because you carry exposed you may become a target or part of the perpetrators plan, the perp knowing he has you to consider as a threat. they or he/she might get the drop on you
> If you do enter a school or building where you say you are not allowed to carry your pistol . People will take notice of that also good and bad people . WELL it must be in his vehicle lets go take it from the vehicle..Carrying exposed word travels quick, depending on the size of your town city or neighborhood.
> GET your CCW and good luck my friend
> Use the exposed at the range or out in the hunting field and around the house ,keeps solicitors away


+1

- I want the elment of surprise
- I don't want the attention (especially that kind of attention)
- I don't want to be the first target of opportunity

Walk softly maintaining a low profile but carry a big bang stick! :smt023


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

Tuefelhunden said:


> +1
> 
> - I want the elment of surprise
> - I don't want the attention (especially that kind of attention)
> ...


:smt023 :smt023


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

As I see it, the problem with concealed carry is that it leaves "concealed" open to interpretation. I carry my SIG P-232 in a Galco "concealed" holster. It's a strong side carry somewhere around 4 o'clock.

In Tennessee, even if it prints or accidentally shows, I'm covered. Tennessee allows open carry. An open carry law doesn't mean that you HAVE to open carry. It just means that if your gun happens to show, you are not automatically under arrest with your permit revoked.

I like open carry laws. Personally, I think that anyone who has a permit and decides to open carry in public just to prove that they can is probably an individual who is too stupid to own a gun in the first place.

But, that's just my opinion. Yours may differ.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

I can appreciate an open carried firearm, (perhaps due in part to the fact that I've one packed away too), but most folks are just threatened by it. It often results in places being posted as "gun-free zones", or criminal protection zones as I've heard them cleverly termed.

OC is mostly counter productive to what we're trying to do.


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

MLB said:


> I can appreciate an open carried firearm, (perhaps due in part to the fact that I've one packed away too), but most folks are just threatened by it. It often results in places being posted as "gun-free zones", or criminal protection zones as I've heard them cleverly termed.
> 
> OC is mostly counter productive to what we're trying to do.


You're right and my previous comment was probably too harsh, but I don't think people who open carry really think things through.

You lose all element of surprise.

If the bad guy wants a gun, he knows who has one. If there are several bad guys, good luck getting them all. It happens in movies. Real life? Not so often.

If bullets start flying, they will fly in your direction first.

You alarm ordinary citizens who are already on edge. They see everyone with a gun as some kind of nutjob. In many cases, trying to reason with them or heaven forbid, argue with them, just exacerbates the problem.

And like you said, it creates more areas where you can't carry at all. In my state, any business or property owner who posts properly, effectively bans all firearms. Well, except for those carried by bad guys who don't fret about things like handgun permits or obeying the law. They've got their gun. Yours is locked in the car.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

We have been open carrying in Arizona for a long, long time and the streets haven't been flowing with as much blood as are the streets of Chicago and DC. At least not since the last Indian treaties were signed.

If you live in an area where LEO's will not accept legal carry as legal carry you may have a problem. My recommendation is that you have them retrained.

I almost forgot: Just what is it that we are trying to do that OC gets in the way of? I realize I'm getting old and forgetful but don't believe anyone has clearly stated the objective. That statement "OC is mostly counter productive to what we're trying to do" has some buzz to it but doesn't tell me much.
Please elaborate.

tumbleweed


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

TOF said:


> ...
> I almost forgot: Just what is it that we are trying to do that OC gets in the way of? I realize I'm getting old and forgetful but don't believe anyone has clearly stated the objective. That statement "OC is mostly counter productive to what we're trying to do" has some buzz to it but doesn't tell me much.
> Please elaborate.


In short, protect ourselves. I want to be able to carry my firearm anywhere I go. Getting more and more places posted as "Gun Free Zones" either keeps us unarmed there, or keeps us away from the place entirely.

I'm sure no one wants to see me walking through my grocery store with a gun on my hip, but it's legal and will stay that way until someone makes a scene just because they can.

That's my view from the northeast though. People's reaction to citizen's firearms in public view is different from place to place I'm sure.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

I understand some areas present problems for those openly carrying. I would hope "our" long term objective would be to swing the pendulum in the other direction and restore acceptance of individuals providing their own protection without having to sneak around in doing so.

I routinely walk through grocery and clothes stores, the Bank, gas station and most other places I do business other than the Post Office, with a gun on my belt. Sometimes it is concealed sometimes it is open. I do not worry about a lEO seeing a man with a gun because they know in Arizona it is legal to do so and they will get in trouble if they hassle a citizen going about their business in a legal manner.

Work on your elected officials and get things back the way they should be.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

TOF said:


> I understand some areas present problems for those openly carrying. I would hope "our" long term objective would be to swing the pendulum in the other direction and restore acceptance of individuals providing their own protection without having to sneak around in doing so.
> 
> I routinely walk through grocery and clothes stores, the Bank, gas station and most other places I do business other than the Post Office, with a gun on my belt. Sometimes it is concealed sometimes it is open. I do not worry about a lEO seeing a man with a gun because they know in Arizona it is legal to do so and they will get in trouble if they hassle a citizen going about their business in a legal manner.
> 
> Work on your elected officials and get things back the way they should be.


If you want your "elected officials" to really do something...get them to STOP illegals from crossing the border!!...:smt115

The idea is not to have to "sneak around" to be able to carry....its that OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS to not feel harassed ( whether real or only in their pea brains) by the appearance or people open carrying, wont be infringed upon.

You have a few cities the size of Metro Cincinnati pop up in AZ...and you can kiss the open carry thing away. AZ has a population of a tad over 6 million. Metro Cincinnati has a population of a little over 2 million...and they sure aint all good guys either.


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## jason-hart (Mar 24, 2010)

One thing that seemed to stand out in this thread about the cons of open carry, is that people assume BG's will target you right away if they intend to do harm. I have some pretty extensive training in modeling criminal behaviors and one thing is evident....only professional BG's, i.e. Pro bank robbers, actually go into a business and attempt to scope out every individual. Most people think that open carry equates to a gigantic shining cursor over that person proclaiming " THIS GUY HAS A GUN". What I mean is that most people do not even recognize that someone is openly carrying a gun unless the conditions are just right for them to see it clearly. I openly carry and when I am in a place of business, I generally stand with my strong side away from the door, same as if I am sitting down. Most impulse criminals do a quick scan of the place before they decide to do their deed and would never see my piece.


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## jason-hart (Mar 24, 2010)

TOF said:


> I understand some areas present problems for those openly carrying. I would hope "our" long term objective would be to swing the pendulum in the other direction and restore acceptance of individuals providing their own protection without having to sneak around in doing so.
> 
> I routinely walk through grocery and clothes stores, the Bank, gas station and most other places I do business other than the Post Office, with a gun on my belt. Sometimes it is concealed sometimes it is open. I do not worry about a lEO seeing a man with a gun because they know in Arizona it is legal to do so and they will get in trouble if they hassle a citizen going about their business in a legal manner.
> 
> Work on your elected officials and get things back the way they should be.


I wish this were true in Ohio, here LEO's are often not trained at all and many law-suits have resulted with great success to the citizen. It is one of the reasons I open carry, to promote awareness to the laws, and I believe it is one of those "use it or lose it" laws that many politicians would love to repeal if they could. I personally have only had one run-in with LE where they didn't know it was acceptable to carry, and even after they learned the law from a senior officer, they wanted issue me a citation for "enciting a panic". It got tossed out of court after the judge learned that the one person calling the law does not constitute a panic.


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

Hey I'm new here but I figured this was a good thread to jump in to! I actually OC on a daily basis and have since getting the gun I currently have. I CCd for years when I lived in WA but moved to CA for a short time and let my CCW expire and sold my guns (I was stupid to do so but it is what it is!)

So now I live in NV and have OCd all over Las Vegas, Laughlin and all over AZ with NO problems... I love it! No IWB holster to deal with, never worry about my gun being seen because my shirt comes up or I print or something... because it is always out there!! No worries! I do get to interact with people that ask if it is legal and that is also great! Being able to educate people on the 2nd Amendment is rewarding to me!

The honest reason I OC? Because at this point I have not yet received my CCW... I did recently apply for it (as well as Utah and Florida) so I can travel cross country and have a CCW everywhere I go... But as far as which I prefer? I am going to have to say I prefer to OC at the moment! It is already in the high 90s and not having that IWB holster is not hurting my feelings... :smt023

All that said, I do have a CCW on the way, and I do already own a *crossbreed supertuck holster* (by FAR the best IWB holster I have EVER had) So once I get my CCW I might carry concealed more often...

But I would be lying if I said I would stop OCing! :smt1099


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

*Robber takes gun from man wearing holster*



> * June 9, 2010 *
> 
> *Milwaukee police are investigating a robbery in which a man took a handgun from another man who was openly carrying the gun in a holster on his hip, a department spokeswoman said Wednesday. *
> 
> The robbery occurred Friday on a sidewalk in the 7000 block of N. Teutonia Ave., police spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz said. ​


* Well, it finally happened...
*


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

VAMarine said:


> *Robber takes gun from man wearing holster*
> 
> * Well, it finally happened...
> *


Yep out of the hundreds of thousands of open carried guns, it is bound to happen... I mean think about how many times home owners have a break in and have their guns taken away and used against them! Same with concealed carry, there have been stories about people CCing getting mugged and having their guns stolen. Just that much more reason for people to arm themselves and learn how to defend against such attacks! :smt023


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