# Beretta PX4 Compact - Oil or Gun Grease - Misfeeding



## crixus12 (Jul 1, 2016)

Hey all,

I have a Beretta PX4 Storm Compact 9mm, and I have used rem-oil for the last 2 years. Recently, I started to get A LOT of mis-feeds, and after a good amount of research, I think my problem was inadequate lube (or using Rem-oil...not a lot of fans in this forum)...

I've also noticed significant scratching on the barrel,cam and sliding lug/block since i've had the gun, which does indicate a good amount of wear and movement. 

The last time I cleaned the gun, i decided to use 'Shooters Choice High-Tech Grease' on the sliding lug, cam and the slide - and I had no issues. 

I just wanted to see if anyone else has had this issue. Do you use gun grease on these rotating components opposed to oil. If you use oil, do you stick with the 'dry' lube?

Thank you for any insight.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

I always use a light coat of remoil after cleaning. If you are having issues with a well used pistol your issues are not lubricant related.

Gun grease or dry lube would be the last thing I'd use. I would think recoil spring, limp wristing, mag spring, extractor, ammo, etc......... not the lubricant you're using.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

As far as the wear and movement, you won't be wearing out that pistol in your life time. Beretta's reported many Storms with easily over 100, 000 rounds through them and going strong, perhaps the strongest action ever built in a pistol. 

I'm so impressed with it I'm going to get another one shortly, perhaps in .40cal. In my mind one of the best pistols ever made in it's class and that includes H&K, Sig, Glock or any of them. "Ma Ma Mia, itsa Beretta!"


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## Bummy425 (May 25, 2016)

I run mine wet with Lucas gunoil...never rem oil. They seem to like it better wet.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Nothing wrong with rem-oil, I've run mine with rem-oil since 2010 and still do, never a hitch. Likewise, I've run the rest of my stable with rem-oil for decades and never an issue. If one is insinuating the storms won't run with rem-oil, I'm not buying it. Use whatever you wish but if your storm isn't running it's not the remoil.

My knock on rem-oil is it's not as residual and/or as much as a protectent as I'd like. The new VCI remoil seems to resolve those issues. 

I would assume the OP's PX4 has been running fine for two years using rem-oil, but all of a sudden due to misfeeds it's time to change from rem-oil to another lube to allow the pistol to function properly? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but your mileage may vary.


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## joepeat (Jul 8, 2015)

+1 on the Rem-Oil, it's all I've ever used and never a problem.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

I no longer have my PX4 Compact, but I used to use Brian Enos' Slide Glide. The grease seemed to stay in place a little better than just oil. 

I agree with denner, however, that it sounds like your issue is more likely related to springs, especially since you have gone a few years with no issues.

I was looking for a single stack 9, and didn't want to add to gun count, so my PX4 Compact morphed into a Sig P938.


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## crixus12 (Jul 1, 2016)

Thank you all for the insight. 
Do you think it had anything to do with my ammo? I usually chose the cheapest available @ Cabelas (typically flat-tip, 115 gr) fo target practice. Are these guns fussy?

I don't have this problem with any other pistol, so I would like to assume it is not limp wristing, but I will definitely make sure to have a firmer grip and a locked wrist next time i go out.

Also - I should clarify, the rem-oil i have been using was the aerosal-can version, if that makes any difference.

Thank you all again for your insight!


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

crixus12 said:


> Do you think it had anything to do with my ammo? !


 I sure do.

I would try 100 rounds of WWB and see what that gets you. I predict the WWB will fire w/o a hitch. If the pistol is 2 years old and you've shot it more than 250 times it shouldn't be light load ammo sensitive by now, but perhaps.

I'd be willing to bet it was the ammo not being hot enough to cycle the action. Was it doing it with all ammo tried or one particular batch or brand of ammo? You have a pistol with the upgraded recoil spring correct?

Some very early compact models (2010 or so) including mine came with a very heavy recoil spring that Beretta fixed by sending out the new version(the one with the coils in the middle), but I seriously doubt you have the older version spring which only ran with Nato or Hotter ammo..... .


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

I do not own a PX4 compact. I do own two Beretta Cougars and one Stoeger Cougar that have a rotating barrel breech lock up that is very similar (identical with a few minor modifications) to that used on the full-sized and the compact Beretta PX4 Storm. The PX4 compact uses a tilting barrel lock up that is completely different. Cougars like to be run rather "wet". Many Cougar owners have reported this besides me. I see no reason that the PX4 Storm compact should be different.

Rem Oil is a very light oil that evaporates quickly. It does leave a thin protective film but it is not substantial enough for the rotary barrel mechanism to run smoothly. I have always used some type of grease. Look inside the slide at the concave bearing surfaces that the barrel rotates on and apply a thin film of grease to them and to the barrel exterior. Also apply some grease to the concave surfaces on the top of the central block, to the tooth on the central block, and to the oblique channels on the bottom of the barrel that the central block tooth fits into. 

It seems to me that you have already proven that your pistol prefers grease to thin, light oil. Having said that, I have experienced issues with one of my Cougars, a Beretta 8000D 9mm failing to fully cycle and feed with some rather lightly powered 9mm ammo. If you have had your pistol for a few years, it is possible that your round count is high enough to warrant a recoil spring change.

I have not found the Cougar pistols to be susceptible to limp-wristing at all. Of course, the polymer-frame PX4 could be different in that regard.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Even though this thread is a month old I wanted to relay my experience with a PX4 Storm Compact I bought new.
Lubing it by the manual with LP it failed to eject and jammed trying to feed the next round from the magazine.
CS at Beretta was less than polite and told me I just needed to oil the cam / tooth area under the chamber.
CS finally agreed to take it for 'repair' anyway.

They sent it back saying nothing was wrong with it and no work had been done.
I could see they had widened the cam channel where the tooth runs. It never ran 100 rounds without a failure so back it went!

This time I explained in detail of the failures and mentioned the modification of the cam/channel.
They denied altering the channel and said they replaced the extractor as a "courtesy". 
The service receipt stated oil was not sufficient for use in the cam and grease should be used. (The manual tells you to use oil).
TW25-B grease did make it run but by then the warranty period was over. I didn't like being lied to or the attitude I encountered so..... 
That's may last Beretta purchase and somebody else can deal with it now, not me. It will probably run just fine for them (with grease), I hope it does.

So according to Beretta's CS that one needed grease to run. 

I believe a Sig will be my next attempt. I'm told they have good CS as does Ruger.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Well, in my opinion and with all due respect, your issue had nothing to do with the lube, grease, oil and especially the cam/tooth area you're referring to. Nor do I believe Beretta cust service modified what you call the cam/tooth area and lied to you about it. 

The reason they would get a little snippy is because they know it's not the pistol but rather the inexperience of the operator, or the insistence of the operator believing its something its not. . The manual is right, these pistols "do not" need grease to run. Some do however need hotter ammo and a stiff wrist at first. 

When you referred to modification by Beretta of the cam/channel /cam tooth area, it was clear. In my opinion there was never anything wrong with the pistol beyond needing hotter ammo at first, and precautions against limp wristing during the early stages. Just wish you could have dropped in earlier while you where having the issue as we would have rectified it w/o you having to contact Beretta, but it sounds like the issue rectified itself before getting rid of it.

What ammo were you running in it at first? Did you run it somewhat wet? Did you ever perceive limp wristing, or did others have the same issue you did shooting it? and what's your experience with semi-auto pistols? 

While I do understand that all manufacturers have lemons from time to time, some moreso than others, but with Beretta its very rare. I've owned Beretta's for decades and more importantly the model in which you speak since 2011. Never a need to contact customer service because i've never needed them. I do know that some need hotter ammo at first and proper grip at first as well. 

Some of theses particular model's may need hot ammo at first to get the parts conditioned, I'd say at least 100 or more of WWB or 124 grain Nato etc........ and it wouldn't hurt to run it a bit wet at first as well with a stiff wrist.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Hey denner, I hope you understand I was not out to ruffle your feathers. I apologize if I came across as if I wanted to. 
But I must say, what you chose to believe is of no concern to me.

I said: "So according to Beretta's CS that one needed grease to run". That's a true statement and they put that in writing. No, I won't bother with providing a copy.

I have close to four decades of experience with ALL types of firearms with the single exception of FULL-AUTO.
Your assumption that a lack of experience was the problem is dead wrong. No need to address all else you assume.

But I will share ammo information: Win 124 gr Nato, WWB 115 gr, Fed 124 gr HST HP, Fed 115 gr FMC. All failed running it wet, not so wet, didn't matter.

A little snippy doesn't even come close to the attitude I encountered with CS at Beretta at the START of the conversation. 
Thru the years I've dealt with CS at five different firearm manufacturers that I can remember. Only two have been less than excellent, Beretta is tied far the worst!
If you ever have to deal with Beretta CS maybe you'll catch them on a good day. One can always hope.

Possibly I happened to get the one guy (two times) on the phone that has a poor attitude and hates his job.
And possibly I happened to get the one service tech that doesn't know what he's doing and modified something when an extractor replacement would have fixed it.
They may(?) have fixed it when it went back the second time and they changed the extractor calling it a "courtesy". Sounds like a sure case of CYA to me.

I didn't try LP oil again because they said it needed grease. It ran fine for over 700 rounds using TW25-R. 
However, accuracy was poor. I've always thought the modified cam may have hurt accuracy. 
That's why I 'fell out' with that pistol. (Along with the fact that I had no confidence that the maker would back their product in the future). 

BTW, they sent it back with grease in the cam channel. 

I understand you're loyal to your brand but to state outright that you don't believe this pistol had a problem or that CS was severely lacking in this case is well, silly. 
Considering you've never dealt with CS at Beretta you are not making that assumption from personal experience, only Brand Loyalty. 

I bought Beretta because of the total reliability of the two I previously owned, a Mod 84 and Mod 85. (Also a semi-auto shotgun but this a handgun discussion).
After about 30 years one broke a firing pin, that's acceptable service IMO. 

Beretta lost a customer in me when they exhibited hostility then LIED when faced with a very real problem with one of their guns. 
I'll never know if my experience the one time I needed customer support was the norm or a fluke. 
I would like to think it was a fluke. 
Can anyone that has actual CS experience with Beretta chime in?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

So, you're saying, or from the information you've recieved, this is the norm for the Beretta PX4 compact having to run with grease and you are expert enough to determine that Beretta modified the cam/channel and then lied to you about it?

Why would they modify the cam channel? Did they ship it back to Italy for the modification, becuase that's where they're made, or did they just hack on it here in the US? I'm not buying the modification of the cam channel, but just my humble opinion. The cam channel on the locking block assembly or the barrel itself? 

My PX4 compact is dead nuts reliable(been my everyday carry since 2011) never been "greased" and can shoot the hair off a fly's leg at 15 yards. I'm going to be buying a 2nd very shortly. I dig it that much. In my humble opinion it's the best in it's class hands down; and that includes Glock, Sig, H&K, etc... 

Sorry to hear your issues with it. However, I've read on Beretta's forum and here about exceptional customer service more often than not and for those not receiving it seems to raise my suspicions that's all.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

denner said:


> So, you're saying, or from the information you've recieved, this is the norm for the Beretta PX4 compact having to run with grease and you are expert enough to determine that Beretta modified the cam/channel and then lied to you about it?


denner: "So, you're saying, or from the information you've recieved, this is the norm for the Beretta PX4 compact having to run with grease"

NO, Absolutely not! Re-read my posts if you can't remember what I said!

denner: "and you are expert enough to determine that Beretta modified the cam/channel and then lied to you about it"?

YES, But it it does not take an expert to see the machine marks in the bottom of the cam channel that WERE NOT THERE before or the material GONE at what if figure may be an oil reservoir. (Looked like a small milled in blind hole, could be for a jig to hold the piece during machine work, don't know) 
Also, I studied those parts closely when I was trying to get the thing to run. It was obvious the channel had been widened.

You never saw the parts, I did. Get over yourself and your silly brand loyalty.
NOW, I'M DONE WITH YOU AND YOUR WISH TO ARGUE AND INSULT. GET OFF IT ALREADY!

1/4/2017, Well I see that you can edit your posts without it showing that it has been edited... Interesting.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Update:
I bumped into the man that bought the Beretta PX4 I sold due to Beretta's ummm, hostile, combative Customer Service.
BTW, At the time of the sell I told him the *whole* story and showed the paper work from the 2nd time I sent it in. (See above).
When I asked if he tried running it with oil instead of grease he said "no, don't want to risk it".
He's not using TW25-B but he is running it with a grease he trusts and has fired about 1K problem free rounds.
I still suspect the extractor was the problem from the get go!
Who knows, it might run fine with oil like the manual tells you even though a gunsmith (?) at Beretta's CS claims it needs grease.
Anyway, the new owner is happy with it and I re-learned to research CS policies _before_ purchase.
All is well.

Sam


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## Outlaw (Feb 5, 2017)

Going back OP's original question... I have been a mechanic and machinist for over 40 years and I would never think about firing my Storm without fresh grease on the barrel action. There is way too much mechanical steel to steel action going on there. Now, that being said, I use the best gun grease I have found to date, Weapon Shield gun oils and grease are quality products confirmed by a friend who is a petroleum engineer that works at a local university. I do know how badly grease attracts dirt but I am one who thoroughly cleans my guns after every range trip and I clean my carry guns once a month.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Outlaw said:


> Going back OP's original question... I have been a mechanic and machinist for over 40 years and I would never think about firing my Storm without fresh grease on the barrel action. There is way too much mechanical steel to steel action going on there.
> 
> Now, that being said, I use the best gun grease I have found to date, Weapon Shield gun oils and grease are quality products confirmed by a friend who is a petroleum engineer that works at a local university. I do know how badly grease attracts dirt but I am one who thoroughly cleans my guns after every range trip and I clean my carry guns once a month.


You and Sam must be from the same school. Where in the manual does it say to use fresh grease? Evidently you haven't been a mechanic and machinist with Beretta for over 40 years? What does lightly oil mean to you?(Pg. 37) To me it doesn't mean fresh grease, but it's your pistol so you can put anything you wish on it.

That being said, Beretta has reported numerous PX4's going well over the 100,000 mark with no part breakages. I would assume this to include the mechanical steel to steel action in which you refer. In other words the PX4 Storm has one of the strongest, if not the strongest actions of any pistol on the market.

When I get to the 100,000 round mark with no part breakages, just using rem-oil, I'll get back with you. I'd say I have about 2,000 or so through one of mine with just 98,000 more to go.:smt071

Ride the Storm. BTW, for you newbies out there. Before you take your new PX4 to the range make sure you clean throughly with Hoppes or other gun solvent to remove the packing oil from the pistol then re-lube.

Packing oil does not equal gun lube.


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## Outlaw (Feb 5, 2017)

The owners manual for my truck says I can go 8,000 miles between oil changes but I'm not dumb enough to do it because I can do better.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

"Designed to meet the most stringent military standards of durability, the PX4 has been reported to fire well over 150,000 rounds with zero part breakages. Besides the essential simplicity of its design (fewer parts=fewer and more solid components bearing stress), the proprietary steel we use for this pistol was developed to be impossibly tough."From the Beretta website.

What I'm saying is whether you run grease, gun oil, frog lube, ballistol, or whatever, as long as the pistol functions you ain't gonna wear it out before an extremely long round count. The PX4's action is perhaps the strongest and most durable on the market and Beretta for a fact produces exceptional steel. After all thev've been producing high quality gun steel since about 1526. Mama-mia!


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Customer Service Is Important!

Went with a new Sig as a replacement to the problematic PX4 Compact.
Wouldn't you know.... It had a few problems too. Dang the luck.

What a world of difference I experienced with CS at Sig. 
Not only were they polite, courteous and professional but they fixed the pistol without lies or insults. 
Could working with CS have been a consideration when the Army went with the Sig 320 over Beretta? 

A word to the wise. 
Study up on customer service (from those that have actual CS experience) when searching for a SD pistol you may need to save your life.
Just sayin...


Sam


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