# Does +P+ ammo differ from +P ammo?



## NewGunGuy (May 21, 2012)

I have been reading on this forum about 9mm ammo and have read people (at times) talking about +p and also talking about +p+ .... are these the exact same thing, just two different ways of saying it? Or are these two different types of ammo?

Also -- can someone please explain what +p and +p+ are? And how do they differ from 'regular' ammo (without this distinction)?

Thanx


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

It's not a well defined classification, but more of a marketing ploy, really. +P simply means higher pressure, as in a more powerful charge of powder pushing the bullet down the barrel. Some manufacturer picks a number for what might be considered a 'normal' pressure and then increases it a little and calls it '+P.' '+P+' is obviously a little bit more. Basically, it's just slightly higher velocity ammo - not enough to damage most modern guns, if used sparingly, but probably not a good idea for light framed guns or older guns (unless they are Rugers).


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## NewGunGuy (May 21, 2012)

So +p has more pressure than 'normal' and +p+ has more pressure than +p?

is the added pressure good for home defense, or not exactly?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

NewGunGuy said:


> So +p has more pressure than 'normal' and +p+ has more pressure than +p?
> 
> is the added pressure good for home defense, or not exactly?


Not all 9mm ammo is considered equal and load selection is more crucial in 9mm for self defense. Many, many non +p rounds are excellent performers, many +p rounds are excellent performers and many loadings in +P+ are excellent performers. +P+ rounds have very high pressure and must be used in newer model pistols that can handle it. I guess what I'm trying to say is you do not need the added +p+ pressure for an excellent home defense round, but if you want to use it that would be fine as well.

Speer GD 124+p
Speer GD 147
HST 147
HST 124 +p
T-series 147
T-series 124 +p
T-series 124 +p+
Federal 115 +p+
Hornady 124+p

to name a few. Anyone of the above mentioned and many more are excellent HD loadings, so pick your poison.


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## NewGunGuy (May 21, 2012)

denner said:


> Speer GD 124+p
> Speer GD 147


what are your thoughts on the Speer GD 124 (without +p) for HD?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

NewGunGuy said:


> what are your thoughts on the Speer GD 124 (without +p) for HD?


Fine.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

You don't need "+P" or "+P+," higher-velocity ammunition, especially within your home.
As a new shooter, it would be better to stick with softer-recoiling, standard-velocity ammunition, especially during your learning processes. And slower-moving, heavier bullets will be less likely to penetrate house walls, should you need to fire a shot or two indoors.

Many hollow-point bullets need to be driven at "+P" or "+P+" speeds, on order to reliably expand the way hollow points are supposed to. However, there are also many standard-velocity, hollow-point loads that expand quite reliably.

Note that you do not need hollow-point, expanding bullets for self defense, any more than you need "+P" and "+P+" loadings.
Effective defensive shooting requires accurate bullet placement (hits on the target), and accurate hits trump cartridge ballistics every time.

You need to do a lot of live-fire shooting practice, if you want to make accurate, effective hits.
Using standard-velocity ammunition will be less fatiguing, during all of that necessary practice.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Using standard-velocity ammunition will be less fatiguing, during all of that necessary practice.


And easier on the pistol as well!


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## Jammersix (Mar 10, 2012)

Steve is right.

Training is what matters. The more you train, the better.

Ammo doesn't matter. No ammo in the world is as valuable as time spent at the range.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

In the house,use a good HP at standard pressure,no RN also called FMJ and ball.This is a place where you don't want top penetrating bullets for collateral damage.Any good 9 will dump it's energy in the the intended target and an exit will be weak if it does,in general.In general again,heavy or fast bullets like to penetrate more,so you have to think about who's in the room behind that wall an exit or miss will endanger.

The 9mm Luger is a fairly high pressure round and HPs in 115gr worked or didn't,then the fun began making the better bullet.The 124s need a little extra umph to perform,and the 147s were designed mainly for suppressed weapons.Over the decades HP design has really improved through testing and technology.

The design of the bullet dictates at what velocity range it will perform at,so muzzle velocity has to be around X for the bullet to be in the performing range at Y average use distance.This is the most important thing.+P+ is running the line on pressure limits,but it can be controlled by the powder burn rate.I haven't carried a 9 since HydraShoks were the top dog,never thought I needed a hotrod 124 gr to replace them for "civilian" use.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Plus P ammo is clearly defined in the SAAMI manual. There is no official +P+. 

My understanding is that some police departments specified an overpressure load for the officers. This can be fine as the department specifies the weapons too and can be sure that the guns can handle the pressure. And they are specifying the pressures when they order the ammo.

But for civilians it is riskier. You don't know the exact pressures of the +P+ and you have not run tests to determine that your gun can handle those pressures.

If you need a more powerful gun, get a .40 or a .45. They are probably safer to use and they are almost certainly more effective.

The lone exception is the .357 magnum, which is the single round with the greatest put down power--it is generally recognized as being more effective than the .40, .45, and even the .44 magnum. Google it if you want confirmation.


.357s can be had in fairly small packages, but can be difficult to shoot well.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Packard,thanks for the SAAMI info,I didn't know that.Great post though.

I kind of look at the +P and +P+ like the 9x21 and 9x23,although the latter 2 were done for reasons to do with competition advantage.If you find a caliber wanting,and need to push it beyond design,you selected the wrong round.That's exactly how the 357 and 44mag came to be.


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