# DA/SA with a safety (not decocker)???



## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

Is it possible to get a DA/SA gun with a safety ONLY (no decocker)?

HK variant 9 and 10 on the USP implies that this is possible from the descriptions I have read...


Would that be similar to your average DAO safety gun cocked and loaded? From what I understand, many people want the DAO just because those guns are READY TO GO in an instant...and you still get the lighter trigger pull at your fingertips (no pun intended).


I guess what I am saying is that most people who dislike the DA/SA guns dislike them because of the two different trigger pull resistances. If you want to turn your DA/SA into a DA gun...then all you need to do is cock the hammer...and them poof...just like that, it is a DA gun. Since most of them seem to come with a decocker, there is no way to put a safety on the gun and keep it cocked at the same time. I personally do not like to be cocked and loaded ready to fire without a safety. But most guns seem to integrate the decocker and safety into the same mechanism.

Does the USP Variant 9 and 10 get around this? If so, it may be the best of both worlds, and in being so...it may deserve another look from me...

USP VARIANTS

Variant 1 DA/SA with control lever (safety/decocking lever) on left 
Variant 2 DA/SA with control lever (safety/decocking lever) on right 
Variant 3 DA/SA with control lever (decocking lever) on left
Variant 4 DA/SA with control lever (decocking lever) on right
Variant 5 DAO with control lever (safety lever) on left
Variant 6 DAO with control lever (safety lever) on right
Variant 7 DAO with no control lever
Variant 9 DA/SA with control lever (safety lever) on left
Variant 10 DA/SA with control lever (safety lever) on right


----------



## VTDefender (Dec 24, 2006)

Check out the CZ75 family. More carry options than almost any other gun.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I THINK there is a way to disable the decocker. When I first got my USP, I thought I read of a way on HKpro.

Go ask over at www.hkpro.com - Or, do a search first (they hate it there when someone posts a question first w/o searching). U will probably have to register there before it lets U search, however. It took me a while to get registered there because I never got their comfirmation e-mail....

Good luck...


----------



## Spenser (Nov 6, 2006)

You can pull the hammer back on the USP and put on the safety, completely bypassing the decocker and double-action stuff. 

If that's what you mean. It's a neat feature that none of the other autos seem to have.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Spenser said:


> You can pull the hammer back on the USP and put on the safety, completely bypassing the decocker and double-action stuff.
> 
> If that's what you mean. It's a neat feature that none of the other autos seem to have.


Yes, U can carry cocked and locked - thats what I do w/ my USPc - but the decocker function STILL works. U just push the safety ALL the way down, and it decocks...

I think he wants to totally disable it, however.


----------



## hberttmank (May 5, 2006)

The USP variant 9 /10 do not decock the hammer. You can change a variant 1/2 to this configuration by changing the detent plate, an easy operation.


----------



## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> Yes, U can carry cocked and locked - thats what I do w/ my USPc - but the decocker function STILL works. U just push the safety ALL the way down, and it decocks...
> 
> I think he wants to totally disable it, however.


Are you saying that the decocker in the USP (variant 1 and 2) is a 3 way switch?

Position 1: Safety ON and Decocked
Position 2: Safety ON and Cocked
Position 3: Safety OFF and ready to fire...



hberttmank said:


> The USP variant 9 /10 do not decock the hammer. You can change a variant 1/2 to this configuration by changing the detent plate, an easy operation.


So am I right in my determination of the Variant 9 and 10? I can cock and lock the gun with the hammer pulled back and ready to fire, but with a safety enabled?

BTW, what does the safety do? Does it simply prevent the trigger from being pulled, or does it block the path between the hammer and the firing pin...or does it do both? I of course would prefer both...


----------



## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

You can change the plate so the gun functions like the 1911 except you still can have a DA pull if for some reason a round does not fire. You an also get the LEM trigger where there is no lever what so ever and functions like a glock.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I must confess to not keeping up w/ the varients. I think I have varient 1. Standard DA/SA w/ the safety on the right side.

The gun can be cocked and locked like a 1911. U can keep the safety on whether the hammer is down or up. U can activate the decocker whether the hammer is down or up (obviously, if the hammer is already dropped, the decocker does nothing - but you CAN push the safety into that position. U can DISASSEMBLE the gun with the safety in safe or fire positions (something many guns don't do)

When U push the safety into the fire position (down) - if U continue to push it further, then it decocks and springs back up to the fire position.


----------



## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> When U push the safety into the fire position (down) - if U continue to push it further, then it decocks and springs back up to the fire position.


So it is a three-way switch...

I think the HK has been elevated back to the top of my list...maybe...maybe not.

After handling the Sig 226 at the store, it became evident that it has a decocker ONLY. There is no external safety on teh Sigs at all. :smt022 
I must say though that I really like the decocker on that gun...it SLOWLY returns the hammer back into position, unlike the PX4...

The HK seems to have all the features I am looking for...

BTW, I am confident that I want the 9mm. After shooting both the 9mm and the .40 cal...it was pretty obvious to me that the 9mm is what I need. The accuracy difference between the two were astounding to me.

Oh and Shipwreck...I handled a Walther model at the store. I really liked how you can re-cock that gun without ejecting the bullet in the chamber...it only takes like half an inch (or less) of slide movement to recock that gun.


----------



## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

I've always wondered if a traditional DA with slide-mounted decocking safety could be modified to have the decocking function removed.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

bangbang said:


> So it is a three-way switch...


Yes, it is 3 way - U can have the safty on w/o decocking it, and keep it like a 1911 - always cocked.

That's how I keep my compact USP.

And, I'd swear seeing some instructions on HK pro a while back - for a way to remove the docker ability. I think it involved changing out a plate inside the gun. But, some people ride the safety w/ their thumb, and they didn't want to decock the gun accidentally.

Actually - I've had my USPc almost a year now - and I rarely ever use the decock feature, as its just left cocked and locked...


----------



## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

Well, I am wishy washy now on the whole subject. The HK has all the functionality I want/need, but the grips (handle) seem to be where this model doesn't shine. The Sig is perfect except for the lack of an external safety.

I'll of course have to hold them again and again a few more times...

I want the HK USP with a much better grip style...is it possible to put grips on the HK? I don't see any mounting screws built into the handle...

Maybe I'll just get the Walther...


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

No, the HK is like the Glock, Walther P99, XD, etc. Its a polymer framed gun. It is 1 piece.

But, U can buy a Hogue handall - a rubber piece U slide over the grip - it gives your hand more traction.

Look at the USP compact - the grip isn't as fat or as wide front to back as the fullsize USPs. I had to get rid of my fullsize USp because it was just too big to hold comfortably 1 handed. The USP compact is fine, however.

Here is a pic from a fellow members USP with that handall I mentioned above...


----------



## grizz5675 (May 22, 2006)

you mentioned that with a da/sa you can cock the gun and you as you call "poof" have a double action ,thats not true if you cock it then poof it's in single action not double.


----------



## Thor (May 11, 2006)

I have a copy of the USP Armorers Manual. I THINK it describes how to disable the decocker. I haven't read it in a long while and like my decocker function on my USPs. I'm sure one could order whatever variant they would like.


----------



## scooter (May 9, 2006)

grizz5675 said:


> you mentioned that with a da/sa you can cock the gun and you as you call "poof" have a double action ,thats not true if you cock it then poof it's in single action not double.


 It is a dbl action, If you pull the trigger in sa mode(hammer cocked) and it doesnt fire you can just pull the trigger again to try a second time and NOT have to recock the hammer,I believe this is what he meant,not "poof" magically turning the pistol into a sa only gun.


----------



## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

grizz5675 said:


> you mentioned that with a da/sa you can cock the gun and you as you call "poof" have a double action ,thats not true if you cock it then poof it's in single action not double.


I may have my terms mixed up, but I dont think so...

Once cocked, most single action guns behave like double action guns.

The way I try to remember it...is how many actions does it take from the shooter to get the gun to fire? If a single action, then all you do is pull the trigger. If double action, then it takes two steps before you can fire. First you cock the gun, and then you pull the trigger.

With a DA/SA gun, if you cock it, it will behave just like a DAO gun in that the trigger pull is much lighter than the SA equivalent.

For those who do not like DA/SA guns because of the two different trigger pull requirements...I suggest that you find a gun with an external safety of some kind, so you can have the best of all worlds.

A DA/SA gun cocked and locked may as well be a DAO gun cocked and locked. The only difference now is that if the bullet fails to fire, you can pull the trigger again instead of re-cocking. The problem seems to be that there are not many DA/SA guns out there with a safety. If they do have a safety, it usually acts like a decocker, and that prevents you from being cocked and locked.

The HK USP seems to be the solution to this. It is a DA/SA gun with a safety and decocker. The key with this gun is that you can have the safety on without decocking the pistol. So far, I think this is the ONLY one I have found. Thanks to Shipwreck for helping me locate it.

My choices are now between the HK USP and the Sig 226 both in the 9mm flavor. I have found a rediculously low price on the Sig 226 with Crimson Trace online. If I cannot obtain that gun at that price, I may go with the HK instead. The price on that Sig is too good to pass up though...so as of now, the Sig remains my top choice.


----------



## scooter (May 9, 2006)

bangbang said:


> The way I try to remember it...is how many actions does it take from the shooter to get the gun to fire? If a single action, then all you do is pull the trigger. If double action, then it takes two steps before you can fire. First you cock the gun, and then you pull the trigger.


That is just backwards , a single action trigger does just that one thing,it releases the hammer, A dbl action trigger does 2 things , it cocks the hammer and then releases the hammer.


----------



## bangbang (Jan 18, 2007)

scooter said:


> That is just backwards , a single action trigger does just that one thing,it releases the hammer, A dbl action trigger does 2 things , it cocks the hammer and then releases the hammer.


Yeah thanks...I figured that out two days ago when I read somehting else that was contradictory.

I went to wikipedia, and that straightened me out.

One question...I have always been under the assumption that Glocks were DAO...and by that assumption...I deduced that DAO means you have to cock the gun before it will fire. Then, I deduced that Single Action means the opposite...so it does not need to be cocked...

I know now that I was backwards...but tell me this...are Glocks DAO?


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

DAO traditionally mean a LONG pull before it goes off. Glock claims their pistol is "safe action, "ots own thing. I guess its a light DAO, technically...


----------



## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> DAO traditionally mean a LONG pull before it goes off. Glock claims their pistol is "safe action, "ots own thing. I guess its a light DAO, technically...


I don't think it's really DA or SA. It has the disadvantages of both DA and SA(heavier trigger, must be cocked or in this case, "half-cocked") without the advantages of either(has that ridiculous "trigger safety" negating the convenience of just the DA first shot, no light trigger of the SA).


----------

