# striker or hammer



## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Ok so ive asked alot of questions on here but im a curious guy and new to this. Anyway so here we go...im exteremly new to handguns and being so new to all this i figured that a striker fired gun would be easier to deal with mainly because i dont understand whole half cocked, full cocked and decockng mechanisms. So what im asking is are these things easy to get use to or should i just start with striker fired? 
Oh and i really dont need /want negative comments thanks


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Striker fired?
Hammer fired?
Doesn't matter.

What does matter to a beginner is that the pistol should present the user (you) with _exactly the same trigger-pull system for each and every shot_.
There are approximately three different systems: Single-action (SA), double-action-only (DAO), and "traditional" double-action (TDA).
I wrote "approximately" because some people separate the Glock's trigger system from the general DAO case.

• SA involves a safety lever, which has to be switched "off" before a shot can be fired. But SA also presents the user with the shortest, easiest-to-master trigger action, which is always the same, shot after shot. An example of the SA system is the (hammer-fired) M1911.
• DAO presents the user with a relatively long, relatively heavy trigger pull. But a DAO pistol usually doesn't have a safety lever to fiddle with, and to remember to press "off." Also, the trigger action is always the same, for every shot. The Ruger LCP is an example of DAO, as is (in my mind) the Glock.
• The TDA trigger presents you with a long, heavy, double-action (DA) trigger pull for the first shot, and then switches to a SA pull for all subsequent shots. TDA pistols have safety levers, and using the safety will usually decock the hammer or striker, putting you into DA mode for the next shot. The Walther PP, PPK, and P.38 are all TDA pistols.

If I were coaching you, I would ask you to choose either a SA pistol or a DAO system.
If I noticed that you were digitally adept, and that your mind worked quickly, I might suggest a SA pistol. If you were learning solely for street self-defense purposes, and for concealed carry, I would suggest that you learn the DAO system.
I would never suggest the TDA system to anyone I would be coaching. Having to instantly switch from one kind of trigger press to another in mid shooting-string is hard on the concentration, and tends to defeat the beginning shooter.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Briefly,
My personal preference would be an exposed hammer with an external safety for absolute beginners.
The hammer is in plain view ,also the safety is in plain view.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Steve;

Yes the Glock is a DAO pistol. While some argue this point and want to call it something else, the design does meet the requirements of that classification. Add to this the fact that the BATFE and Glock both have classed their design as a DAO. I once called their factory in Georgia and confirmed with with one of their techs to try to end an argument.


To the OP;

I have trained people who were totally new to handguns or semi-auto pistols on the Glock (their purchases) and they managed to pick it up and learn it. I'm not really sure that the Glock is the best platform for a newbie and I would tend to go with a 1911 for this, preferably in 9mm. The drawback with the 1911 design is the fact that it is a single action (SA) and that means it has an external safety. I have seen new people frequently forget to engage the safety when they set the gun down and there are still rounds left to fire. Worse is when they are trying to lower the hammer on a gun still carrying ammunition. I try never to allow them to do this because it is a recipe for disaster.

Frankly, there is no "best" pistol for a new person to train with, save perhaps a double action revolver. But that is not a semi-auto pistol and semi's are what most people want and buy and that is what you're asking about. Which takes us back to the Glock and similar such guns. There is one pistol which does come with an external safety as an option; the M&P Smith and Wesson. If you can find one of these, it might be one of the best for people new to all of this. The M&P handles like a DAO and is classed as such, but in fact it is really a SAO pistol. Trouble is there is no such designation but really, that doesn't matter to the owner/shooter.

Which takes us to your question regarding hammer or striker fired pistols. The primary mechanical difference between these two designs is this. A hammer fired DAO pistol, as Steve mentioned, is going to have a relatively long trigger pull that can be a bit heavier, in order to reach full cock before it is released to fire a round. A striker fired pistol holds the striker in a partially cocked position (Glock and Kahr are examples) or a fully cocked position (M&P centerfires and XD's are examples) in preparation of being fired.

A hammer fired DAO has second strike capability. This means that if the round fails to fire, the user can pull the trigger again to see if it will fire before working (racking) the slide to eject the failed round and load another one. Striker fired pistols do not have this ability. If a round fails to fire, the striker will be at full rest and the slide will have to be worked in order to set the striker in its battery position once more. This will eject the round and load another one.

So which one is better? You are going to find that to be pretty much an opinion answer. Generally speaking, striker fired pistols tend to be better for defensive purposes because of their triggers. But again, some will disagree. What this all boils down to is that all of this is left to personal preferences and what works best for the individual. Some really like double action pistols (the Beretta 92 has is supporters here and it is a DA pistol) and some like the design begun by Glock or its various permutations (I fall into that category). The best advice you have received are from those who suggest that you take your time, handle a lot of different pistols, and try as many as you can out on ranges that rent them. Only then are you going to be in a better position of taking the right decision. If I absolutely had to suggest one pistol for you to go with, it would probably be the Smith and Wesson M&P 9 with the 4.25" barrel and an external safety. The safety is optional but not a bad thing for new shooters to have. The gun is one of the best in terms of handling and feel and is easy to shoot for newcomers. And the price is right. A hard to beat combination and a fine gun with which to learn and have after you have become proficient.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

This is an area you are just going to have to decide what you like after using them.I've shot all the trigger types and owned all but I prefer external hammer guns.

I had to use TDA and learned itit isn't a big deal to me.The longer and heavier DA pull can actually help you concentrate on sight picture better as you're pulling through the trigger and you can shoot it surprisingly well,if it's a nice smooth pull.What always bothered me was the awkward slide mounted decocker/safety,it isn't a natural movement to operate them.Sig has a nice design,but I never really liked the feel of them.

At the same time period I shot a lot of combat matches and my main gun was a 1911.I did shoot my duty gun and revolvers in it also.To me the 1911 is one of the best handling guns still on the planet.The controls are where they should be and easy to thoughtlessly operate them.A properly built one will run with any other gun,the problem is everyone and their brother make them and push specs trying to re-invent the wheel.I've seen people flub operating the safety,new shooters I understand but not someone with time on the gun,how do you lose proprioception like that?In about 30 years of running them I have never flubbed the safety on one.They also have about the best trigger you can get.

On the striker guns,I don't know,they just don't make me all warm and fuzzy feeling.I've owned at least one I recall from the older days and shot a few newer ones since Glock came to be,I'm just not a fan of them.That isn't to say they are bad because you might take to them like a kid in a candy store,I guess I'm still a little old fashioned.I kick around the idea of converting my HK to LEM,which mimicks the striker operation with a second strike capability,but the trigger on it now is so nice it rivals some 1911s.


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Thats some extremely good advice and i apprecieate all of it. Once again yall have given me alot of food for thought. I guess when i started this adventure i really didnt know what i wanted. Thanks guys


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

youngvet24 said:


> Ok so ive asked alot of questions on here but im a curious guy and new to this. Anyway so here we go...im exteremly new to handguns and being so new to all this i figured that a striker fired gun would be easier to deal with mainly because i dont understand whole half cocked, full cocked and decockng mechanisms. So what im asking is are these things easy to get use to or should i just start with striker fired?
> Oh and i really dont need /want negative comments thanks


In the PX4 the DA/SA is a very nice one. I'd say 8-9 pounds DA and 4-5 pounds SA. Likewise, the DA pull is shorter than the 92FS. All DA/SA's or DOA's are not created equal. They are easy to use if you train and become accustomed to them, as is the de-cocking mechanism. It's perfectly safe to lower the hammer on a live round unlike a striker fired pistol(most) in which the only way to de-cock the pistol is by squeezing the trigger. Some say the striker fired pistols are better for self defense and carry, I disagree, as I'm very accustomed to the DA/SA and shoot it very well, you may not. I find that the ones who have the most issues with the DA pistols are the ones very accustomed to SA's and striker fired pistols, as likewise I agree they are quicker to master and shoot well because there is no transition. As far as having a pistol for IWB CC, in a pocket, or deep concealment, I feel much more confident that I have an 8-9 pound longer trigger pull as opposed to a 5-6 pound shorter trigger pull, especially when I have the pistol at times riding very near or over my leg or perhaps pointing at other areas of my body.:watching: You really need to find someone, sign up for a training course and learn and shoot different pistols if at all possible, internet suggestions and opinions will only get you so far grasshopper.:numbchuck: It is now time to snatch pebble from hand. I'm a Beretta DA fan, but if I purchased a striker fired handgun the PPQ would be getting a hard look.


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## Donn (Jul 26, 2013)

I learned on a 1911 in the Army. All steel, exposed hammer, external safeties. If you plan on carrying any pistol with these features, you have to drill with it. There's a sequence you need to be familiar with. Striker fired guns like Glock or M&P are ready as soon as drawn, safeties are in the trigger. That's not to say you shouldn't practice safety with all handguns and there will be guys who will come down hard on both sides of this issue. I've got both, have carried both. These days, my EDC's an M&P. MHO, it's safer cocked & locked and should the unthinkable happen I can put it into action quicker.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

What is important to me, is that all my pistols have a trigger. 

As long as they have a trigger, I'm good to go. :watching:


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Most people who carry should have a combination safety,lol. An external safety might save your own life when the bad guy takes your gun after he slaps you , knocks you silly, and you start begging him not to pull the trigger. Because you have a GLOCK, tell him to keep his finger off the trigger, that is the safety on the Glock correct.
Welcome to the real world , of ,will you pull that trigger. You don't know .


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> What is important to me, is that all my pistols have a trigger.
> 
> As long as they have a trigger, I'm good to go. :watching:


But , your getting old paratrooper, are you sure you still have the mettle it takes . Playing with cats n getting all sensitive. 
Young punks today pull the trigger without even knowing the word justification .


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

After a year of convoys in southern afghanistan pulling the trigger is a fear ive had to overcome. Ive froze before and almist lost my life ans THAT is something you only want to expierence once rest assure its a memory i will never forget. 

But back to the actual topic im just gonna go shoot some get systems then pic one


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> But , your getting old paratrooper, are you sure you still have the mettle it takes . Playing with cats n getting all sensitive.
> Young punks today pull the trigger without even knowing the word justification .


Don't let my fluffy, friendly, out-going appearance, fool you. As you age, you tend to appear to be easier going.

But, inside lurks the dark, mean, cruel heart, of a highly trained and skilled SOB. :numbchuck:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...And, as is well known, "Old age and treachery will always beat youth and skill." :yawinkle:


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> Don't let my fluffy, friendly, out-going appearance, fool you. As you age, you tend to appear to be easier going.
> 
> But, inside lurks the dark, mean, cruel heart, of a highly trained and skilled SOB. :numbchuck:


Ok ,lol


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> Don't let my fluffy, friendly, out-going appearance, fool you. As you age, you tend to appear to be easier going.
> 
> *But, inside lurks the dark, mean, cruel heart, of a highly trained and skilled SOB*. :numbchuck:


I'm going to have to remember this. While I don't think of myself as "old", I ain't gonna fool myself. The warranty's long over, the parts are starting to break down, and the doctors' visits are getting to be routine. What the hell's going on? I think God's playing tricks on us.... see what we're made of and if we can handle things.

When men are in their twenties, they talk about women, they think about women, and they pursue women. When they're in their forties, they worry about the mortgage, how they're going to send the kids to college, their retirement funds. When they're in their sixties, they talk about their ailments, their surgeries, and their doctors. When they're in their eighties, they worry about who to leave and who to remove from their wills.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

youngvet24 said:


> After a year of convoys in southern afghanistan pulling the trigger is a fear ive had to overcome. Ive froze before and almist lost my life ans THAT is something you only want to expierence once rest assure its a memory i will never forget.
> 
> But back to the actual topic im just gonna go shoot some get systems then pic one


I actually thought you were more inexperienced, when you stated extremely new, I should have picked up on your username that there might be some exposure to firearms ,handguns. Appreciate your honesty being in the service n still need to learn, very mature statement.
thanks n good luck choosing.


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

New to handguns not new to firearms


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> ...When men are in their twenties, they talk about women, they think about women, and they pursue women. When they're in their forties, they worry about the mortgage, how they're going to send the kids to college, their retirement funds. When they're in their sixties, they talk about their ailments, their surgeries, and their doctors. When they're in their eighties, they worry about who to leave and who to remove from their wills.


...But when they're in their 70s, they think about women. Young women.

(Well, I do, anyway.)


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...But when they're in their 70s, they think about women. Young women.
> 
> (Well, I do, anyway.)


You dirty ole man............:smt018


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...Actually, I'm a very _clean_ old man.

Besides, I regularly sleep with a young woman: Jean is only 71.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...But when they're in their 70s, they think about women. Young women.
> 
> (Well, I do, anyway.)


Oh yes. The perennial female form and a beautiful feminine face is something men never outgrow.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

youngvet24 said:


> New to handguns not new to firearms


Forgot to thank you for your service to our country.

You are getting some good information here and I hope you are assimilating it well. Do continue to ask questions since that is how you will get a jump start on your learning curve with handguns. I've been at this for 45 1/2 years and I still learn new things. Makes it exciting.

Anyway, we're all here to help so keep at it and ask away.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> You dirty ole man............:smt018





Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Actually, I'm a very _clean_ old man.
> 
> Besides, I regularly sleep with a young woman: Jean is only 71.


Psst. I'll be 68 in January. Damn it goes by fast. But I still love the things of my youth. Performance cars,drag racing, boats, rock 'n roll, and firearms (yes ladies too but my wife has a say in that). Gotta scratch the boat thing since I am currently boatless.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> ...I'll be 68 in January...I am currently boatless.


For my 70th birthday, Mother Nature gave me seasickness.

I used to enjoy sailing, although I had to rent a sloop in which to do it, since "a boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money."
Well, not any more.

The last time I was out, Jean and I were taken salmon fishing by a (motorboating) friend.
Jean caught a huge salmon. I fed the fishes, over the side.

The salmon was scrumptious, anyway.
I ate it in revenge.


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you southernboy for your support i appreciate it. Im trying to absorb everything i can on here. But at the end of the day real world expierence trumps word of mouth


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> For my 70th birthday, Mother Nature gave me seasickness.
> 
> I used to enjoy sailing, although I had to rent a sloop in which to do it, since *"a boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money."*
> Well, not any more.
> ...


Of course, this can be said about many things. Golf, shooting sports, auto racing (non-professional), motorcycling, avid traveler, etc. Most things that deliver enjoyment come with an associated cost of some kind.

Seasick? That's not fun. Both of my boats were powerboats, the last of which was a 27' Sea Ray sunbridge cruiser. Had to let her go because of two daughters in college. She slept 6 and had a full galley and head. That enable me to write off the interest on my taxes as a second home.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> For my 70th birthday, Mother Nature gave me seasickness.
> 
> I used to enjoy sailing, although I had to rent a sloop in which to do it, since "a boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money."
> Well, not any more.
> ...


You may not get seasick every time ,lol.
When you state "feeding the fishes over the side" is that how it's done ( salmon fishing )? 
Or is that how seasickness is performed ?:smt082
Had to ask.

I started laughing after reading it twice .


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pic said:


> ...When you state "feeding the fishes over the side" is that how it's done ( salmon fishing )?
> Or is that how seasickness is performed ?:smt082...


I understand that it's called "chumming," probably because only your best friends should see you doing it. :yawinkle:


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Ok guys getting a little off topic here. If your gonna get off topic atleast talk about guns so i can learn some more stuff from you old timers lol


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

After the third or fourth post, most threads start to wander.
This thread stayed on-topic all the way to #16! That may be some sort of world record. :smt083


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Lol ill pick up my trophy on monday


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Hey! Post #16 was me. Dare I go off topic too much, thou saidest?

Guns? Went to the range today to shoot two .22LR pistols. One is my year and a half old Ruger Mark II 22/45 Hunter with the fluted 5.5" barrel. I put a different rear sight on it to replace the wide 'V' sight and it works better for me. The other .22 was my new M&P 22 I just got last Saturday. Now that is a fun gun to shoot. Both are really but the M&P closely mimics my other M&P's so that makes it kinda special.

So let my ask you pilgrim (OP), have you taken any decisions yet? Have you created a candidate list of pistols from which to begin narrowing your selection? If you have done any of this, your next step is to try your best to shoot them. Rent them at ranges or if needed, see if any of your friends have any of the guns on your list and are willing to help you along. Take your time and watch impulse buying tendencies. You'll find what you will be happy with soon enough if you're willing to do the work.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I understand that it's called "chumming," probably because only your best friends should see you doing it. :yawinkle:


 Excellent wording , lol.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

youngvet24 said:


> Ok so ive asked alot of questions on here but im a curious guy and new to this. Anyway so here we go...im exteremly new to handguns and being so new to all this i figured that a striker fired gun would be easier to deal with mainly because i dont understand whole half cocked, full cocked and decockng mechanisms. So what im asking is are these things easy to get use to or should i just start with striker fired?
> Oh and i really dont need /want negative comments thanks


I love the 1911 compact style 45 , but I carry it less frequent , then the GLOCK I HATE !!


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Yeah i dont have access to a range nearby (unless i drive over 2 hours away) but ive held and dry fired quite a few (sig p250, px4, m&p, xdm just to name a few) and i picked up the px4 9mm conpact and it just felt right. I really cant deacribe it but all the controls were perfect for my hand and i like the saftey/decocking mechanism. The damn thang practically screamed "BUY ME!!!!!!" and no other gun has given ne that little tingle so thats the one im going with


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

youngvet24 said:


> Yeah i dont have access to a range nearby (unless i drive over 2 hours away) but ive held and dry fired quite a few (sig p250, px4, m&p, xdm just to name a few) and i picked up the px4 9mm conpact and it just felt right. I really cant deacribe it but all the controls were perfect for my hand and i like the saftey/decocking mechanism. The damn thang practically screamed "BUY ME!!!!!!" and no other gun has given ne that little tingle so thats the one im going with


 Good choice,very nice.


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