# How to hold/brace gun/hand when using barricade for support?



## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

PPC starts this week and I've been practicing with my XDm and then more with a ruger mk1. I"m not thrilled with my seated and prone positions but they're coming along. The braced one...not at all. I must be missing something fundamental. 

How do you hold and brace yourself? The 9mm kicks so what sorta works with the 22 hurts with the 9mm. With the pole on the right some holds have the brass bouncing off the post. With the pole on my left I'm hitting 4" right and with the pole on the right I'm hitting 4" left with the 9mm.

I've tried about 8 different ways to do this...hand, wrist or arm on the pole. Knuckles on the pole (when shooting on the right). Leaning hard, or barely at all. Nothing seems to work. I'm steady in the hold just way off and inconsistent on hits. I'm as good (or better maybe) without the pole to brace against!

Anyone got a pic or link to a video that would help?


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I've been around a little PPC but never shot it so..........

It sounds like you're bracing with a normal firing grip,that's not how it's done,or wasn't.The problem is the same as shooting from a bench rest,your hands never touch the bags.Once in a grip,you use the bags to support your wrists and the muzzle on long barrels/slides (that's optional).Anything touching your hands and the gun affect accuracy/POI because the recoil pattern is being changed before the bullet leaves the barrel.That's why you're getting a left/right shift.

When using a barricade as support,you're shooting one handed with the other on the barricade for muzzle support.There are different ways of doing it but you anchor your hand to the pole and rest the front of the gun on your fingers.My old 10"MKII Ruger killed bowling pin heads at 100yds but you weren't going to hold that thing unsupported.I'd put my left palm on the post fingers up and stick my thumb out,then rested the barrel on it a few inches behind the muzzle.

If nobody else comes in with more info Google PPC and I'm sure somebody has pics and descriptions to cover the whole range of the sport.


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

Why are you that close to over anyway? One of the things that made me quit USPSA was just that--it trains you to hug cover, and it's HELL to get past once you are accustomed to it. Don't hug the cover!

That said, if you must be a gamer, then just put the back of your hand on the cover. Closer to the knuckles is better, as that gives the ejetion port room to do it's thing when shooting left side. Otherwise, treat it just like a standing shot.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Assuming a right-hand hold, and shooting from the barricade's right side, and also assuming a solid barricade which won't move...

One method is to brace your entire left _forearm_ against the _back_ of the barricade, holding your left forearm as close to horizontal as you can.
Leave your left _hand_ free of the barricade, and use it to support your pistol in the usual way.
Doing this will require you to shoot with a flexed right arm, but that should be OK.

Another method would have you brace the back of your left _hand_ against the _side_ of the barricade, and lean into it with all your might.
This method will permit a stiff right arm.

In either case, you change your aim by shifting your entire upper body, thereby swivelling the pistol's muzzle.
Your feet stay in place.

Doing any of this requires lots of practice to properly accomplish.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

PPC isn't like the combat matches unless things have really changed.In IPSC/IDPA/real life you don't crowd cover.In PPC you supported the front of the gun with the off hand,and there were stops on the barrel or dust cover to prevent the hand from getting to close to the muzzle or you pushed it into your hand/fingers depending where it was mounted/your preference.It wasn't my gig but that's the way it was a decade or so ago and occasionally I still see the stops pop up.


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## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

They PPC they shoot at the club I just joined works like this:

First Half
- 7 Yard Line- 12 rounds / 25 seconds - standing
-25 Yard Line- 18 rounds / 90 seconds
- 6 rounds kneeling
- 6 rounds left hand / left hand side of barricade
- 6 rounds right hand / right hand side of barricade
Score and change targets
Second Half
- 25 Yard Line- 24 rounds / 2 minutes & 45 seconds
- 6 rounds sitting
- 6 rounds prone
- 6 rounds left hand / left hand side of barricade
- 6 rounds right hand / right hand side of barricade
- 25 Yard Line- 6 rounds / 12 seconds
Strong hand - NO support

60 rounds total on a B27 target scored as marked. 600/60X is perfect score

It's once a week for 20 weeks and you can shoot ahead (in case you miss a week or it's raining and you don't want to shoot in the rain).
Best 16 scores count toward your average. 
cost is $60 plus your ammo.
They also shoot at the club bullseye, IDPA (5 or 6 shoots a year), groundhog (rifle) shoots, trap twice a week, and one 'patrol rifle' shoot (think IDPA with an AR!)
It's a reason to shoot - a purpose, goal, objective, a way to measure one's progress. Sure, I can go and bore holes in paper plates but that gets boring fast, at least to me.

You think you're a good shot? Well the top shooter last year had a season long avg of 598!

As for shooting 'behind a barricade'.. I've heard a number of folks comment about this, usually in regards to IDPA. Hey, if someone is shooting at me I'm taking cover. If I can brace myself for a shot I will - why not? (at least I will with a rifle). If you're shooting say, through a doorway or the corner of a building. Sounds easy - I thought it would be till I tried it myself.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

OK,this sounds a bit different than what I recall with one hand only barricades.Revolvers was the only thing used that I saw too,so it's a class difference or something.

Tactically you don't crowd cover or hang on walls,but gaming and using support is a different matter.


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## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

The S&W 626 is what used to rule and many still use it. Many feel semi's are not accurate enough - and perhaps years ago they weren't. Today they are of course. I believe the top shooter uses a s&w m&p. The season starts wednesday so I'll know more then. I can observe...and then embarass myself LOL

I did a test run of sorts over the weekend and came up with a 469. Anything below 515 is well, bad. "off the charts' - but in the wrong direction.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm so rusty you probably did better than me.The economy has killed me the last few years so practice is skimpy.Good luck,your scores will go up as you get into it.


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## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

Fortunately I'm financially in the best position in my life. I gave up competing 25 years ago for economic reasons, but can finally afford the money (time...that's another issue). I do try to practice with my 22 as much as possible - economy is one reason but i don't have to load those bullets and that's a plus too!


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Ah,yes yes mon,enjoy!I did alot of pre-IDPA stuff (IDPA is a still a laim tactical IPSC) but kids and soforth took precedence.I figure if I can let it rip on a paper pieplate for targets there ain't much more need done shy of needing a rifle.Let 'er rip man,it's only practice to hone the skills


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## prof_fate (Jan 2, 2012)

Scored a 442 out of possible 600.
First half I had 9 no-counts. 5 missed the target (one failed to chamber shooting weak hand against the barricade (post)..limp wristed it I think or collided with the post)and 4 were outside the scoring rings. My left index finger seriously lacks a feel for the trigger - weak hand dry fire practice is on the agenda now.

Got some advice on grip and got to see others use the barricade. Second half all hit the target and only 1 was outside the scoring rings (same place as the other 4 - way low/left). Actually a big improvement over the first half - had all 9 hit even the 7 ring I'd have broke 500. 

I tried hand flat on the post with thumb out and rest the gun on the thumb the first half and back of hand the second half (regular grip, just steadied on the post) Second way seems to have worked much better.


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