# reloads all over the target.



## springfield2 (Jun 14, 2017)

Hi everyone i have some ? And hopefully someone has some answers.I just got back into reloading after not doing it for about five years.The first 4 or 5 matches went great.I use 4.3 of 231 wiyh 124 grn extreme bullet.about 3 weeks ago i started having major accuracy problems.i shoot a lot of idpa matches and only drop about 15 to 20 points down a match.Now iys like 100 points down a match.I miss close targets far targets about every target that you can think of.Lots of times i miss altogether.Have no hits on targets.It seems as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel it deviates from the target immediately.I know people can have a bad day at the range but this is much more than that.my coal was 1.135 but i went to 1.140 to see if it would solve my accuracy issues.It did not.I also have more felt recoil but that doesn't make any sense because i have not changed the load.I also did the plunk test and my bullet seems to spin freely so i don't think it is on the lands.I did combine 2 one pound containers of 231 and it seems like that is when i started having issues.I don't know if that is a coincidence ot not?people i have talked to say it's not a good idea because powder can vary from lot to lot.I have an idpa state match coming up and i don't dare use these reloads.Any help ot ideas would be greatly appreciated!


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

What bullet are you using?
Have you changed bullets lately?
Hodgdons lists COL at 1.150, so it _could_ be related to length.

I'm sure others will have some other ideas.


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## springfield2 (Jun 14, 2017)

Using 124 grn extreme plated bullet.I have had no issues at 1.135 or 1.140 with accuracy.Very accurate.I see a lot of guys loading to what length i do and have gteat results.i was unaware of the change.i have had great accuracy with this load and bullet up until about 3 weeks ago.i did recently get1,000 new extreme bullets.They are.355 diameter. Most 124 grn bullets are.356 but thats how extremes are.i did combine 2 one pound cans of 231.After i did was told was not good idea because different lots of powder can vary plus or minus.i have a can of 231 that weighs 4.3 through my measure and i have a different can that weighs 4.1 through the same measure without making adjustments.I didn't combine that can with anything else.Like i said before i also have more recoil than i did before i combined the two powders.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Sounds like muzzle damage.
Are there any burrs or "dings" on or near the muzzle of the gun's barrel?

Are you certain that the bullets you're using are of a consistent diameter?
Maybe some of them vary from 0.355", on the small side.
Plated lead is usually pretty soft, and the bullets may not be gripping the barrel's rifling properly.

Test: Try some very-high-quality jacketed bullets of the same weight, with the same powder mix and charge, and see what happens.
Use a very solid bench rest, and be consistent from shot to shot.
Report back.

One or two grains difference in powder charge may create inaccuracy, but not the "all over the target" that you report.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Sounds like muzzle damage.
> Are there any burrs or "dings" on or near the muzzle of the gun's barrel?
> 
> ...
> ...


I tend to agree with Steve; I think it is more related to the new bullets rather than the powder. Of course that ignores any damage that may have been done to the muzzle of your gun.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

springfield2 said:


> Using 124 grn extreme plated bullet.I have had no issues at 1.135 or 1.140 with accuracy.Very accurate.I see a lot of guys loading to what length i do and have gteat results.i was unaware of the change.i have had great accuracy with this load and bullet up until about 3 weeks ago.i did recently get1,000 new extreme bullets.They are.355 diameter. Most 124 grn bullets are.356 but thats how extremes are.i did combine 2 one pound cans of 231.After i did was told was not good idea because different lots of powder can vary plus or minus.i have a can of 231 that weighs 4.3 through my measure and i have a different can that weighs 4.1 through the same measure without making adjustments.I didn't combine that can with anything else.Like i said before i also have more recoil than i did before i combined the two powders.


I had an interesting experience with Extreme Plated bullets in my Marlin 44 Lever Carbine. This rifle normally shoots into 1.5 inches at 50 yards with Berry's Plated & Cast bullet handloads. I saw some "Extreme bullets on sale & bought 1,000. At the range, they wouldn't even stay on the paper at 25 yards. I put the target close - 30 feet & the best group I could get was around 7 inches. I wrote to the company & they had me ship the rest of the bullets back & gave me a refund. Apparently, they make bad batches of bullets.


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## springfield2 (Jun 14, 2017)

I checked some of these and some are between .354 and .355 .What jacketed bullets would you suggest?


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## noylj (Dec 8, 2011)

Tain't likely powder or crimp or COL.
Look to bullet first. Plated are so iffy, and they are so often undersized. They really need to be at least 0.001" over ACTUAL measure groove diameter. I can't tell you how many folks found their problem was the lot of bullets being 0.354" instead of 0.355", and how surprised they were with the improvement using 0.356" bullets.
Next, any time you suddenly lose accuracy in a gun, you have to look at the muzzle for any damage and remove and clean the barrel and inspect it.
Twice I've had someone complain that their gun suddenly lost accuracy and cleaning out the barrel showed a ring/bulge—probably from a barrel obstruction.
Like a dog, our guns try to talk to us.


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## noylj (Dec 8, 2011)

Go to Precision Delta and order in quantities of 2000 or more. You can get 124gn FMJ and JHP for under 9 cents/bullet.
RMR may also have some good deals--just be sure to get the jacketed bullets.


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## noylj (Dec 8, 2011)

Mixing powder? Never do that!
Any way, what amazes me is that the same folks who tell me that powder lots don't vary much at all will also argue not to mix 231 with 231.
My position was, after I mix it, if I was mixing 50/50, I would have a mix that was mid-way between the lots that these folks tell me are the same.
So, don't do it. Do as I say and not as I do.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeesh mixing powder! what idiot does that. You're problem is Between your ears! Buy some factory 9mm 124 gr Fedeal Eagle ammo and shoot your next match. You'll hurt yourself or someone else reloading you're methods.(mixing powder??).


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Blackhawkman said:


> Jeesh mixing powder! *what idiot does that.* You're problem is Between your ears! Buy some factory 9mm 124 gr Fedeal Eagle ammo and shoot your next match. You'll hurt yourself or someone else reloading you're methods.(mixing powder??).


Maybe you're over-reacting.
He mixed one lot of 231 with another lot of 231. That's not much of a mix.

I have always used the same powder charge of 231, without paying attention to either the lot number or the scale-weight.
Once set with a scale, the measure remained (and remains to this day) unchanged. It's approximately six grains, behind both 200- and 230-grain, .45 bullets.
I have never had any issues at all with any of my 1911s, using those specific loads. They were always both reliable and accurate.


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## Mowgli Terry (Sep 19, 2019)

How many times have we poured the near empty can of powder into a new can of the _same_ powder? It would be tough making loading data with that much difference in lots. It's not unknown to mix powders together to even up the difference between lots. There is nothing wrong with mixing the _same_ powder.

.Bench the gun. The variable that changed is the bullets. Start there. How about a call to the bullet maker? I had exactly the same problem with a Smith 659 with plated bullets. Nothing wrong with the gun. The problem was with the bullets. Those bullets were too small

Four grains of Bullseye makes my 1911 run very well. You find a bunch of combinations that work well in these old calibers.


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