# Disappointed in concealed class



## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

So I took the class to get my utah permit last night. Utah requires a four hour class but no shooting requirement. This class has a shooting element but was told to only bring twenty rounds. The instructor is from the bci which issues permits. 

At least half of the class was spent by the instructor complaining and yelling about politics. Stating how he would like to hang certain politicians. As well as stating you should never go to certain states that don't share his views over and over. I knows many people here share some of those views but I was at the class to learn and not listen to ranting. 

When it came to the shooting we only shot five rounds into a paper target ten feet away. There were mostly people shooting .22 and one I noticed only hot the target once in five shots. Another which it was their first time shooting a handgun and I had to show a woman how to lock her slide back. That woman I must admit after missing her first two shots put the next three right in the center. All of those people will get their permits. 

I know there are many different views in rights to conceal and I respect that people have different opinions than my own. Yet the whole class felt like an enormous waste of time. If the class wasn't required I would've just walked out.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

That's very dissapointing to hear. With the war being waged against gun owners, we need to do a lot better than this. As a peace officer, I've never taken a civilian course, but I'm sure most are better than the one you took. The course my parents are taking in California is actually quite intense. Considering how serious carrying a handgun is, it needs to be intense. If you are dissatisfied with your CCW course, I would complain about it, maybe something will change and the course will improve.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I will complain to the bci. Also I can't believe I forgot to write this. His overall attitude towards Leo's was disgusting. He repeatedly stated that cops are dumb. Ignorant to laws and horrible shots. That the people that hold cfp are much better at protecting people than any officers. That coupled with a few rather racists statements.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes, I would have been disappointed as well. But, I would have called him out on it, right in front of the whole class. 

Beings that I'm a retired cop, I would have taken exception to several things he said. Many classes such as this, vary greatly in quality and substance. You really have to do your homework in regards to finding a good class. 

But then again, there's a lot of people that just want a short class as possible, shoot as few rounds as possible, pay their money, and leave with a permit. They really don't care to, or have the ability to retain what they learned, and some show up for the class, never having shot a handgun in their life. 

If I were you, and if it's not too late, I would pursue a full refund.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

In the beginning I made responses to a few of his comments and made it very clear I did not share his view points. I am going to the bci today to drop off my application and I will talk with whomever is in charge of that division.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

It's definitely a problem, because there are many, many classes just like the one you took. I know, my classroom was 6 1/2 hrs. and range time was 30 rds., which wasn't a heck of a lot, but it was at 2 different distances, and it was timed. It was also agreed beforehand, by everyone...that if anyone muzzled someone, they were immediately dismissed, with no refund. As far as LEO's, there are some dumb ones, there are some crappy shots, and there are some that are ignorant of the law....but I think the majority of them, do the best job that they can do. I would definitely rattle someones cage.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Let me play devils advocate...

Do we really need a class to exercise a right?

Remember, I am all for good dynamic training, but the question still begs to be answered....


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

Harryball said:


> Let me play devils advocate...
> 
> Do we really need a class to exercise a right?
> 
> Remember, I am all for good dynamic training, but the question still begs to be answered....


I would answer that with a "no" by the way you phrased the question, but I don't see any harm in people getting at least some guidance from these classes. Remember, many who take these classes, never even held a fire arm.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Haas said:


> I would answer that with a "no" by the way you phrased the question, but I don't see any harm in people getting at least some guidance from these classes. Remember, many who take these classes, never even held a fire arm.


I fully understand that most in these classes have never held a firearm. Its good to see new people taking the responsibility for there own protection. I guess my point should have been, that if we are going to mandate that people take a class, that they should come away from the class actually learning something about the weapon they may use. Safety classes are good, dont get me wrong, but they do not teach anyone how to use there Gun. So if we are going to mandate "training" shouldnt it be training?? Not just a lecture on safety.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

You have the option to take other more advanced courses if you like, just leave it at that. Other people in the class may have enjoyed his rants, and some of his statements may have been true. Quit whining and move on soldier.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

The way I see it, any firearms training is a good thing, as long as it's done properly. You can argue that we shouldn't be forced to take a class for a CCW, but you can equate it to a drivers license. You must have drivers training to operate a motor vehicle. I know this opens a whole can of worms, but training is good thing when it comes to handling a firearm, essential in fact. I have no problem proving that I am able to competently handle a firearm, in fact, as a peace officer, it's mandatory. I can tell you from 25 years experience, the vast majority of LEO's don't receive enough training. It's just not in the budget of most depts. We all want our guns, it's our right we like to say, but how many legal gun owners out there are a liability or even a hazard ? Probably more than we'd like to admit.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

hud35500 said:


> The way I see it, any firearms training is a good thing, as long as it's done properly. You can argue that we shouldn't be forced to take a class for a CCW, but you can equate it to a drivers license. You must have drivers training to operate a motor vehicle. I know this opens a whole can of worms, but training is good thing when it comes to handling a firearm, essential in fact. I have no problem proving that I am able to competently handle a firearm, in fact, as a peace officer, it's mandatory. I can tell you from 25 years experience, the vast majority of LEO's don't receive enough training. It's just not in the budget of most depts. We all want our guns, it's our right we like to say, but how many legal gun owners out there are a liability or even a hazard ? Probably more than we'd like to admit.


Great points.....


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

Harryball said:


> I fully understand that most in these classes have never held a firearm. Its good to see new people taking the responsibility for there own protection. I guess my point should have been, that if we are going to mandate that people take a class, that they should come away from the class actually learning something about the weapon they may use. Safety classes are good, dont get me wrong, but they do not teach anyone how to use there Gun. So if we are going to mandate "training" shouldnt it be training?? Not just a lecture on safety.


Yes, I agree. Even the class I took, which I thought was very good, seemed like it was more about the right and wrong decisions, in given scenarios, and nothing about the proper handling of a fire arm. They did cover storage and carrying holsters, but not how to hold it, fire it, cleaning it, what to do for a jamb, etc.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Here in NY, they do not require that you shoot the gun or take a safety course.But it takes eight months to get your permit with a big IF you get it.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

Very valid points. The class did not touch in what to do in the case of a jam. There was no one to speak with at the bci but I did send an email to the director. Wonder if ill hear back... It makes me wonder if no class is better than a bad class. All said I do think some of the new people did learn some good things. But also learned never to trust the police. 

As for New York... I was told there's never a reason to go there. Even though its where I was born an most of my family live.


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm surprised at all the "anti-police" sentiment at these classes. In the one I took, there was an actual police officer on hand to answer questions, and help with the instructor. I was pretty happy with my class.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Haas said:


> I'm surprised at all the "anti-police" sentiment at these classes. In the one I took, there was an actual police officer on hand to answer questions, and help with the instructor. I was pretty happy with my class.


There's a movement going on right now in the US, and I'm sure you are aware of it. Rights are being trampled and ignored or watered down.

LE is being pulled both directions by politicians. I'll be 59 yrs. old this Fall. I've been around long enough to see that this once great country of ours, is heading in a direction totally different than the one I've been accustomed to for so long.

A lot of people see police just as an extension of the government. A lot of people are becoming suspicious and untrusting of our own military.

All in all, we as a nation, are headed in a direction that we may not ever be able to recover from.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

That's one thing. But saying that police are stupid about laws and according to my class they miss 87-90% of the time so if you hit your target you're already better is a gross generalization. I hope his director comes down hard on him.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

It's your responsibility to be accountable for your actions owning a firearm. Do you compare it to obtaining A drivers license? Or can you compare it to owning a bow n arrow or a chain saw.


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> There's a movement going on right now in the US, and I'm sure you are aware of it. Rights are being trampled and ignored or watered down.
> 
> LE is being pulled both directions by politicians. I'll be 59 yrs. old this Fall. I've been around long enough to see that this once great country of ours, is heading in a direction totally different than the one I've been accustomed to for so long.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you're saying. I'm only 9 years behind you, and I see it to. I'm not so sure about law enforcement though. Yes, a lot of people see them as an extension of the government, but on the other hand, a lot of law enforcement officers are common sense citizens who enjoy the freedoms of this country just like the rest of us. If this country were to head down the path of loss of too many rights, some of law enforcement, and even our military, just might turn on the side of the citizen, rather than follow orders from above to abolish our rights. 
Not sure I said that very clearly, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. :mrgreen:


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## Gunner4640 (Nov 12, 2011)

I finished my Texas chl class yesterday and it was great, long but great. I shot a perfect 250 for a score..missed 2 test questions.
Sorry to hear about a class like that. the one I went to was very professional, no bs, I am going to send this thread to my instructor. Went to Sping Guns and Ammo in Spring Texas


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

What questions did you miss?


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## warrior2910 (Jan 1, 2013)

That sounds like a pretty crappy class that you took. I was supposed to have mine yesterday, after waiting a month to get in for one. I worked 2 12 hour days so I could have Saturday off to go. I get to the place about 20 minutes early and waited, I was the only vehicle in the lot. It was scheduled for 9:30 am, and at 9:40 I called the guy, left a message because he didn't answer. 10 minutes later he calls me and said he thought he got a hold of everyone the day before cancelling the class. I was PISSED! He said give me a second I'll figure out the next time I could get in. I just hung up.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I took the Utah Non-resident permit course here in Indiana, and they did a pretty good job for us. It ran about five hours, but there was no rant about politics or anything like that.


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