# Is doubletap +p+ ?



## branch (Oct 31, 2008)

I bought a box of doubletap 9mm 124 gr. +P. Their website claims 1310 fps and 473 footpounds from a Glock 17. Doubletap uses the same bullet as speer so I checked out speers website and they claim 1220 fps and 410 footpounds for their 124gr +P. The double tap seems pretty juiced up. Anybody have any experience with this round? The price was right at $28 for a box of 50 from a local dealer.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

+p indicates the cartridge will producee greater pressures than SAMMI standard loads.

There are no pressure velocity or Ft. Lb. standards for "NON STANDARD" loads.

Standard loads vary widely in velocity and energy also but should not exceed the max pressure standard.

+P+ just means the manufacturer is saying "This is real hot stuff". It may be wimpy next to a box of +P by a different manufacturer.

I reccomend you stick with standard stuff till you understand possible consequences of excess pressures.


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## branch (Oct 31, 2008)

What would be the consequences of higher pressure? I have a cz sp01 and a 9mm ruger speed six. I was told that each of these guns could handle that load with no problem. I was planning just to shoot the rounds to make sure there are no feeding/ejection problems and to get a feel for any difference.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

The consequence of to much pressure is a gun coming apart in your hand and possibly taking part of your hand with it.

Age, condition and design standards when built determine what equals acceptable pressure for a given gun. 

The manufacturer should have a reccomendation given they are in good shape and is where I would ask the question.

Joe Whosit may tell you they are tough guns but I expect it is you that will be holding them when they go boom , not Joe.

Good luck


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Got to side with TOF (Again). You need to get a feel for what's going on with your run of the mill loads before straying out in the land of hot loads.

Some people will tell you anything. "I've shot this load out of this gun for 946 years and nothing happened to me. You have to look at what your particular model of weapon was built to take. some will say straight in the manual do NOT use loads over standard pressures. Some may say go on but if the weapon has a few gray hairs on her then it might not be such a good idea.

It's always best to look into what your weapon was made to shoot. Some are actually made to withstand overpressure 2-3X more before they will fly apart. Some are not. I've not had much history with any CZ so I wouldn't dare say what to do with them and I have never seen yours even if I did know more about them.

I'd to me a little research before I dumped any load hotter than what comes in your standard load. Maybe fire off an email to the manufacturer. and READ THE MANUAL. That's always a good place to start.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

My good friend has a Baby Eagle that he was shooting some reloads through his brother made. Seems one got a double dip at the powder drop. The gun held together but it blew the mag out the bottom and the grips blew apart. We had to fish a piece of the brass case out of his head too. After talking to the manufacturer he was told it was built to take 3x the pressure before a catastrophic failure. We still don't let that brother near a press :buttkick:


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

There have been a few posts over on the Ruger Forum of revolvers that blew up. I don't want any part of that! Ugly stuff! Shot placement is more important than +P volosity any day of the week anyway. I'm starting to doubt the New Hollow Points that expand super quick too. It's just me but I've seen one or two articles about bullet expanding on heavy clothing with no penetration.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I like em a little hot but most the ones I make or buy that way are not listed as +p even. That Selliler and Bellot ammo is pretty hot stuff. and not too pricey. I usually buy some once a year to keep a supply of fresh brass..lol.


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## FHBrumb (Oct 27, 2007)

Double Tap clearly states when their loads are standard pressure, or are not. Really, that's the info you need. If SAAMI does not have a standard load for whatever it is (40 S&W +P for example or 9mm +P+) then you are just gambling.

I shoot Double Tap loads in my 45s, but I shoot the ones notated as being "just shy of a +P rating". I know that they are pushing that definition as hard as they can, but I do not believe they are just plain lying about it.

My 45 holds their Gold Dot Standard pressure loads right not. If 45ACP goes +P past 22,000 than I think these are about 21,995. But still, not a true +P load. No, I'm not certain of the real SAAMI number, that's just an example...

The way someone explained it to me is this:
A manufacturer sets the loads to a profitable and safe level. How many are inclined to load to 100%? Not many. They load to 80% or 85% to keep costs and liability low. Hot loaders like Buffalo Bore and Double Tap are going to charge you an absolute premium price for full 100% SAAMI loads. Then they tell you that you are responsible for how the loads are used, and in what firearms.

I won't buy anything that seems to have a made up name. +P+, ++P++, Extreme +P, or what ever the heck they call it, they are just telling you that they think their load if the Foshizzle.


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## Magnus_yj (Oct 30, 2008)

Additionally, based on the original question in this thread. The fps of a slug will vary based on the weapon, not just the powder load. You mentioned the Double Tap specs coming from a Glock 17, but no mention of what was used for the Spear round. It doesn't take a real substantial change in barrel length to effect the fps.


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## FHBrumb (Oct 27, 2007)

Barrel length, barrel tolerences, barrel type, loads of things can effect it.

But yes, +P or +P+ is about pressure, not fps.


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## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

branch said:


> 1- *What would be the consequences of higher pressure? * I have a cz sp01 and a 9mm ruger speed six.
> 
> 2- *I was told that each of these guns could handle that load with no problem*.


1- Wearing parts of you gun home, missing teeth, eye's poked out, bystanders killed.

2- Cool. See if you can put those loads in THEY'RE guns, have THEM shoot them. See if they bite at that proposition. I once was told I'd be "OK" if I jumped off the roof of my garage with an umbrella.

Otherwise, stick to normal START load data and recipe, SAAMI blah blah etc. 
Esp. in semi-auto's.


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## literaltrance (Dec 24, 2008)

Somewhat on-topic....

I have been amazed by the strength of Buffalo Bore ammunition every occasion I have shot it. If your weapon is +P rated, get some of this stuff. I have yet to find a more powerful factory ammo. While I don't have a chronograph, the feel of increased pressures and the visible damage to a target downrange is proof enough.


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## branch (Oct 31, 2008)

I thought +p is a SAMMI spec. Less than 35,000 psi. for standard pressure and less than 38,500 psi. for +p (for 9mm). And as far a +p+ who knows?. No source, just going off memory.


Magnus_yj the gold dots were shot out of a 4" barrel. It just seems to be a big ballistic difference for different makes of +p, thus the title of my original post.


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## Masterblaster1 (Mar 14, 2009)

I have fired all the double tap +p loads in 9mm out of my Ruger P-95 dc without any problems whatsoever. If you have doubts read your owners manual. If it says the gun is +p rated then you are good to go.


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