# Rant



## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

Ok guys, This is just a rant...so I apologize.

I recently (and possibly stupidly) requested that my company make a polocy on whether or not they will allow cc on company property. I knew that the owner of my company was a gun owner, and he has made several comments on how he would like to get his ccw permit. My HR director was raised in a gun loving family, and is signed up for the class in a month. So I thought I would feel better with the business owners direct "blessing" if you will.

I was not all that surprised when they called to tell me they were going to _dissallow_ cc on property, although I was expecting them to say yes. I was, however, more than irritated when they cited their reasons for why we would not be allowed. My HR director actually said, "Well, we don't want anyone coming in and shooting the place up, so we are going to put up the signs banning people from carrying weapons inside"....I couldn't even speak when she said that. I had to bite my tongue to stop from telling her what kind of ignorant fool she was. :blah:

I know there are a lot of ignorant gun op-posers out there. What made this situation so painful, is that these people are the same people who vote for gun rights, and own guns. She then went on to say that they checked with their insurance company, who, of course, said, "You mean you don't have signs up already?" and "We will be forced to raise your insurance rates because of liability reasons if you do not put them up promptly". So Obviously, they had no choice at this point.:smt076


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

I didn't realize what a tough decision this could be.

I have my own business, and I carry.

Looking around at my employees, though, I have doubts about whether I want _them_ to have gun in my office.

I know me better than I know them, I trust me better than I trust them.

Hmmmm ....

tumbleweed

WM


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## Mr.clean (Jul 30, 2009)

They cant ban you from going there,just working there.Catch my drift?If your a paying customer its much different.


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## ROBINPA (Sep 11, 2009)

I understand your disappointment in there decision , i suppose there are some questions best left unasked.


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

I do realilze this is a decision that requires a great deal of thought and responsibility, but for me it is a no brainer. bg's know that a business with a white and red sign on their door is full of unarmed (sitting ducks). And like I told the owner of my workplace, I respect his decision either way. The problem comes in the reasoning. I do not have any respect for the reasoning. I don't have any patience for stupid people. In this case you really can't even say it is ignorance, because I know how the person who said these things was raised. It just really boils me.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

> I recently (and possibly stupidly) requested that my company make a polocy on whether or not they will allow cc on company property.


:buttkick:

Sorry, that's about all I can say on the matter...


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

You posted the biggest issue as to why they won't allow it... INSURANCE.

They'd much rather clarify something out (guns) and be covered by insurance than not clarify it out and have to pay out of pocket. It's economics. In this market downturn, insurance has most companies by the balls pretty much.

You'll never get it thru an insurance guys head that a crazy gunman is going to carry it in regardless of the sign. Unless of course they've upgraded their signs!


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I always think of this when this topic comes up:

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## jc27310 (Dec 14, 2008)

never as a question you don't already know the answer to.... (lawyers and insurance agents)

That stinks. I'll bet even the boss' are pissed.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Company I worked for had no guns allowed. I worked for them for 16yrs and have carried or had one close by for over 50yrs. Don't make sense does it. Well it was concealed and my best friends didn't even know I had one. :smt083


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## YFZsandrider (Feb 28, 2009)

looks like it says "Glock free zone"


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## AirForceShooter (May 6, 2006)

Did you seriously believe they would adopt a policy that said CCW was allowed??
Next time shut up.

Yeah, it's all in the insurance policy.

Now, don't ask about parking on the lawn under the tree.

AFS


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

Ya might have been better just to do it and ask forgiveness later as necessary if a policy one way or the other was not clearly established or to have privately gone in one on one to ask the owner for his blessings for you to carry or not as apposed to pressing him for a public stand to apply to all employees kind of thing. I agree in principle and practice it is absurd but it puts your boss in a bit of pickle. I manage a small company and tell my supervisors don't bring me a decision (typically related to a dispute but any issue will do) to make unless you "really" want my answer. Meaning, try and sort out your differences with one another because if you bring it to me I will make a decision for you but you may not like it. Just because you brought me the problem doesn't automatically mean I am going to see resolution of it your way after I look at all the facts.

A disgruntled employee, robber, etc. isn't going to give a lot of thought to the Co. policy or a nice sign on the door but that's the nutty world we live in today. To my mind a company could be potentially liable in either case. Unarmed in the work place and people are hurt by an armed assailant, survivors could sue the Co. because why didn't they take reasonable meassures to protect us. Visa versa policy allowing cc, a disgruntled armed employee goes off the deep and people get hurt, survivors could obviously sue and would win for Co. culpability for allowing guns in the work place. Something bad goes down at work the Co. is likely screwed either way but the path of just say no is the least perilous.


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## jc27310 (Dec 14, 2008)

Tuefelhunden said:


> Ya might have been better just to do it and ask forgiveness later as necessary if a policy one way or the other was not clearly established or to have privately gone in one on one to ask the owner for his blessings for you to carry or not as apposed to pressing him for a public stand to apply to all employees kind of thing. I agree in principle and practice it is absurd but it puts your boss in a bit of pickle. I manage a small company and tell my supervisors don't bring me a decision (typically related to a dispute but any issue will do) to make unless you "really" want my answer. Meaning, try and sort out your differences with one another because if you bring it to me I will make a decision for you but you may not like it. Just because you brought me the problem doesn't automatically mean I am going to see resolution of it your way after I look at all the facts.
> 
> A disgruntled employee, robber, etc. isn't going to give a lot of thought to the Co. policy or a nice sign on the door but that's the nutty world we live in today. To my mind a company could be potentially liable in either case. Unarmed in the work place and people are hurt by an armed assailant, survivors could sue the Co. because why didn't they take reasonable meassures to protect us. Visa versa policy allowing cc, a disgruntled armed employee goes off the deep and people get hurt, survivors could obviously sue and would win for Co. culpability for allowing guns in the work place. Something bad goes down at work the Co. is likely screwed either way but the path of just say no is the least perilous.


+1 on that Tuefelhunden!


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

It sure is easy to give that advice _after_ the hard lesson is learned.

AFS "Did you seriously believe they would adopt a policy that said CCW was allowed??
Next time shut up."

Actually yes, I was pretty confident that a pro CCW polocy would be put in place. The OWNER, who is responisible for making the decsion, is an avid shooter and has openly expressed support in the past of the 2nd ammendment. I felt pretty confident that he would support ccw in our workplace. So i learned a hard lesson. If they don't have a sign, its legal. Keep my mouth shut. I got it loud and clear, thanks for pointing that out.

And Teuf...

I did ask privately for the owner's blessing. That is when he decided that it would be a good idea to have a policy in place anyway. _I_ am fully aware of their stupidity on this issue. That is why i was so irritated by their response. I was blindsided by their reaction, which was the exact opposite of what I expected them to say. I guess money is always more important than our rights, when it comes to business.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

falchunt said:


> It sure is easy to give that advice _after_ the hard lesson is learned.


That's why you're supposed to ask for advice _before _you bring it up to the bosses.

artyman:


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

If I knew to ask you for advice, i would have known it was a bad idea to bring it up in the first place. Like I said, I was confident, and I didn't second guess it at all.

If I was to ask your advice, that would show that I had doubt from the beginning.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

falchunt said:


> If I knew to ask you for advice, i would have known it was a bad idea to bring it up in the first place. Like I said, I was confident, and I didn't second guess it at all.
> 
> If I was to ask your advice, that would show that I had doubt from the beginning.


Actually, what you said was:



falchunt said:


> It sure is easy to give that advice _after_ the hard lesson is learned.
> 
> AFS "Did you seriously believe they would adopt a policy that said CCW was allowed??
> Next time shut up."
> ...


That doesn't seem without doubt.

Anyway, the damage is done. Hopefully over time you can work on the boss.


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## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

You're right. I guess I really should have said *very* confident. I am still so dumbfounded over the whole thing. And I will do my best to change his mind, but I don't feel confident at all yet. I haven't figured out a way that its going to make him more money...


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## funkypunk97 (Aug 2, 2007)

I guess some things are better left unsaid. I can see your reasoning behind bringing up the idea, especially given that you seemed to be in like company. But it sounds like you poked a beehive that no one even knew existed. 

I always go by the "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it comes to CC........I am bound by the law, and my CCW permit. After that I say nothing to anyone.


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