# Need some info on an old PPK (More Pics Added)



## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

Can anyone give me an idea of when this .22 PPK was manufactured and its approximate value. It comes in a dark blue or black case with red satin in the lid and red velvet in the base. The serial number is 921576 and the proof marks on the slide and the barrel hood are crown over N. Also, would anyone know of a source for a period correct magazine with a finger rest floor plate? Additionally, the front sight looks a little funky to me but looks to be original to the pistol.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

There are two different "crown-over-N" German proofmarks.
One is from the German proof law in effect from 1912 through 1939.
The other is from East Germany, for guns proofed in Suhl from 1950 until the end of East Germany.

So, the question is: Were Walther PPKs in .22 rimfire ever made (and proofed) in East Germany?
My speculation: No, they weren't.

After 1945 and until Germany was allowed to have an arms industry again, most Walther pistols were manufactured in France and would carry French proofmarks.
But no French proofmark that I know of consists of merely a crown over the letter N.

That _may_ indicate that your PPK was made in Germany before 1939.
That, and its case, and its condition, _might_ make it collectable and therefore valuable.

I suggest that you need to have it professionally appraised.

Replacement Magazines:
Try Numrich Arms, at: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/207150.htm#194020


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

Thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate your help.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Look similar to me, but I would definitely have it appraised.https://www.gunsamerica.com/980066006/Walther-PPK-22LR-No-Import-Markings-Very-Very-Clean.htm


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

pic said:


> Look similar to me, but I would definitely have it appraised.https://www.gunsamerica.com/980066006/Walther-PPK-22LR-No-Import-Markings-Very-Very-Clean.htm


It does look similar, if Thiokol's in the same condition plus the case, worth more than auction. Yes get it appraised, insured.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

It bothers me that this particular PPK _may_ bear pre-WW2 proofmarks (but only according to the OP's statement, since no picture of the alleged proofmark has been offered to us).
According to the similar pistol for sale (see *pic*'s link in Post #4), .22 rimfire PPKs were only available _after_ 1960.

Is the description of the for-sale gun incorrect?
Is the OP wrong, in his description of the proofmark?
Is the OP's gun made up from an old (valuable) receiver, and newer .22 parts?

Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see photos of _every mark_ on the OP's gun.
Not just the proofmarks, but _all_ of them.


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> It bothers me that this particular PPK _may_ bear pre-WW2 proof marks (but only according to the OP's statement, since no picture of the alleged proofmark has been offered to us).


The proof marks are visible in the 2nd picture. FWIW, the pistol belongs to a buddy of mine who brought it over a couple of days ago. The pictures were taken in poor lighting but I will try to get the pistol back to take better pictures for you.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Thiokol said:


> The proof marks are visible in the 2nd picture...


...Not visible to my ancient and rheumy eyeballs!
If I'm right about the gun, I'm older than it is.
If it's an antique, then so am I.


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Not visible to my ancient and rheumy eyeballs!
> If I'm right about the gun, I'm older than it is.
> If it's an antique, then so am I.


Steve:

Don't blame your eyes too quick I took the posted photos and used a computer to enlarge photos, and remove the noise. Tried changing the exposure and can barely make out the Walther flag. The marks may be view-able on the originals, but many photo upload sites(fb) reduce file size and image quality during the upload.

So your eyes are as bad as the computer routines, if that makes you feel any better. Either that or my free mircosoft photo editor program cannot do the job.


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm picking the pistol up from my buddy tomorrow to take better pictures. I'll have them posted hopefully on Monday but no later than Tuesday..


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

I was able to take some better pictures earlier today. You can now clearly see the slide markings and the proof marks on the slide and on the frame. Also, the left side of the frame at the bottom and under the grip is stamped 40. Would this indicate the year of manufacture? It has a 90 degree safety, checkered trigger, and unusual sights. So what say you about this pistol as far as value would be concerned?

Here are the pictures:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Well, I can't say for certain that it's not a crown-over-N proofmark.
But I still can't make out exactly what it is.

The slide is marked as having been made in Zella-Mehlis, Thuringia. That places the slide's manufacture at before the end of WW2.
The correct proofmark would be an almost ball-like shape that is a very sketchy "crown," with a tiny cross on top, over an "N." The mark on your gun does look something like that. (This mark was used from 1912 through 1939.)

Contrary to other on-line information, my references say that Walther did make .22 rimfire PPKs from the very beginning, starting in 1929. The plastic grips seem to be both original and correct.
Since it doesn't seem to have Nazi markings, it is possible that your pistol was sold commercially to a private German owner. Or, it may have been imported into the US for private commercial sale. I don't have serial-number/date references for this gun.

So I speculate that your pistol is a quite valuable collectors' item. My references tell me that, if the spare magazine were present, the cased gun in very good condition would be worth more than $2,000.00; but without the magazine, it will be worth a little less (maybe $1,700.00).

I strongly suggest that you have this gun appraised professionally.
If you want to sell it for its true worth, let a reputable gun-auction house handle it. (They can appraise it, too.)


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Well, for certain it's not a crown-over-N proofmark.


Then tell me what you think it is, please. On page 294 of The Walther Handgun Story by Gene Gangarosa Jr., the same proofmark as on the PPK is shown as a crown over N.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

It looks like the proof of crown over N. Nitro proof - E German Suhl .... Since 1950

http://www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

CW said:


> It looks like the proof of crown over N. Nitro proof - E German Suhl .... Since 1950
> 
> http://www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf


The serial number indicates that the pistol was made no later than 1938. Up until then, the PPK serial numbers were interspersed with the PPs serial numbers. When the 1 millionth pistol was made Walther began numbering the pistols starting at 100000K. In April of 1940, the original crown over N was replaced by the eagle over N proof mark. I looked at the proof marks with a magnifying glass and they are indeed crown over N.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Thiokol*;
Look at Post #12 again.
I found more information, so I modified it while you were writing.


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Thiokol*;
> Look at Post #12 again.
> I found more information, so I modified it while you were writing.


I just sent a message to Dieter Marschall asking for his opinion on this pistol.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

1200$- 1600$ for the right buyer


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## Thiokol (Dec 28, 2010)

Here's the text of a message that I just received from Dieter Marschall"

*Hello Jim,
This PPK (SN 921576) was made in 1935. It still has the 90°-safety and crown/N proofmarks. I think it was reblued in the past, as the red dot at the safety is missing. Front and rear sight as well as the trigger were modified. The blue presentation case is postwar, as pre-1945 ones were brown.
Best wishes,
Dieter*


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