# CCW permit from North Dakota...in Kentucky?



## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

I was browsing around the Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed website, and it caught my eye that one of the states with which we have reciprocity is North Dakota, although their minimum age is only 18.

I'm waiting to get my permit once I turn 21, so when I looked into this further, I found that ND only requires a written test that "is open book and consists of ten questions." and a proficiency test, along with two passport type photos and a $25 fee. This state will also issue to non-residents. According to the North Dakota Office of the Attorney General, this permit is recognized by Kentucky with no restrictions.

Considering that KY requires a full instruction course at significantly more cost and wait until I'm 21, is there any reason not to get the ND permit? 
Heck, even barring the age issue, why would I not get the ND permit instead, other than it'd be valuable to take a safety course?
Something tells me the whole thing is too good to be true.

Disclaimer: I'm quite aware that I shouldn't rely on legal advice obtained on an internet forum, and would be wise to check all info with my local PD or a pro-gun attorney. :mrgreen:

KG


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

AFAIK the laws of the State you are in/visiting, with a non-resident permit, apply. Even though ND issues a permit to 18-20 year olds, KY requires permit holders to be 21. Seems to me it wouldn't be valid in KY if you're under 21.

You'd need to check with Kentucky State Police about it.



> For further information on reciprocity agreements with Kentucky, contact the Kentucky State Police CCDW Section.
> 
> Kentucky State Police CCDW Section:
> 
> ...


The only other draw back I see is that the KY permit has more reciprocity than the ND permit. Only really a factor if you travel.


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

bruce333 said:


> AFAIK the laws of the State you are in/visiting, with a non-resident permit, apply. Even though ND issues a permit to 18-20 year olds, KY requires permit holders to be 21. Seems to me it wouldn't be valid in KY if you're under 21.
> 
> You'd need to check with Kentucky State Police about it.
> 
> The only other draw back I see is that the KY permit has more reciprocity than the ND permit. Only really a factor if you travel.


Hmm, travel isn't too much of a factor for me, and in KRS.237.110:

-4c states that a person must be 21 years of age or older to be _issued_ a permit, while

-20a states that a person with a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed deadly weapon may carry, subject to the provisions of Kentucky law.

I can't seem to find anything that states you must be 21 to carry in Kentucky, just the above statue that you must be 21 to apply for a Kentucky permit. I'll take your advice and give the State Police office a call next week to ask, though.

Barring the above, when I turn 21, is there any incentive to go for the KY permit over the ND permit other than increased reciprocity?

KG


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

kg333 said:


> Hmm, travel isn't too much of a factor for me, and in KRS.237.110:
> 
> -4c states that a person must be 21 years of age or older to be _issued_ a permit, while
> 
> -20a states that a person with a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed deadly weapon may carry, *subject to the provisions of Kentucky law.*


I think you have your answer right there. _Prerequisites_ and _Qualifications_ are both synonyms of _Provisions_. Just my .02

-Jeff-


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

BeefyBeefo said:


> I think you have your answer right there. _Prerequisites_ and _Qualifications_ are both synonyms of _Provisions_. Just my .02
> 
> -Jeff-


Right, but are they prerequisites and provisions to the same thing? 
4a refers to prerequisites to be issued a permit...if you already have a valid permit from another state as specified by 20a, does the age criteria apply to the actual act of carrying? Or simply to issuing a permit?

For example, 4i of the same statue continues that another prerequisite to a KY permit being issued is completion of a firearms safety course. If these prerequisites are necessary for an out of state permit, a person would basically need to go through the entire KY permit application process to be eligible to carry with the out of state permit.

Sorry if my last post wasn't clear on where I was going with it. I'm going to work on a letter tonight, with the above statues cited, to the address bruce333 provided. If anyone's interested, I can post what I hear back.

KG


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

bruce333 said:


> AFAIK the laws of the State you are in/visiting, with a non-resident permit, apply. Even though ND issues a permit to 18-20 year olds, KY requires permit holders to be 21. Seems to me it wouldn't be valid in KY if you're under 21.
> 
> You'd need to check with Kentucky State Police about it.
> 
> The only other draw back I see is that the KY permit has more reciprocity than the ND permit. Only really a factor if you travel.


I agree with Bruce. Until you hit 21, you'd only be able to carry in reciprocity states that issue to people under 21, since you have to follow visiting state rules. Your ND permit would be invalid in KY until you turned 21, in which time you'd be old enough to get your KY permit anyway. IMO, it would be a waste of time and money to get the ND permit unless you travel a lot to under-21 states.

Also know that Colorado, Michigan, South Carolina, New Hampshire, Florida, Kansas, and West Virginia only honor permits *from residents* of the issuing states. Since you are not a resident of ND, your permit from them would be invalid in the above mentioned states.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

kg333 said:


> I was browsing around the Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed website, and it caught my eye that one of the states with which we have reciprocity is North Dakota, although their minimum age is only 18.
> 
> I'm waiting to get my permit once I turn 21, so when I looked into this further, I found that ND only requires a written test that "is open book and consists of ten questions." and a proficiency test, along with two passport type photos and a $25 fee. This state will also issue to non-residents. According to the North Dakota Office of the Attorney General, this permit is recognized by Kentucky with no restrictions.
> 
> ...


Hello kg333,

I'm a certified test examiner for ND, and some of the info in your post seems to be missing or a little out-of-date. There is no longer a proficiency test requirement, just the written test; however, the written test must be administered in person by a ND certified test examiner (not sure if there are any in your area). The fee you referenced is just the testing fee; there is also an application fee of $35 which is submitted to the state along with the application. You also have to get fingerprints on a "blue" FBI card, and most fingerprint technicians or LE agencies are going to charge a small fee for you to get printed. If you download the testing pamphlet it outlines the procedure in a little more detail.

Although I generally agree with the above posters on the age requirement, strangely enough, the ND CCW webpage does not show any age restriction "notes" for use in Kentucky (as they do for some other states), so it's quite possible that your technical reading is correct. However, the rule that Todd referenced in his last paragraph, above, was specifically designed to keep residents of certain states from doing just what you want to do (get an out-of-state permit and use it in-state before you would otherwise be able to qualify for a resident permit). Based on this, I'm quite sure that the great state of Kentucky (and its law enforcement officials) would take a dim view of this plan if it were to come up in any way during use. Some folks just don't appreciate innovative thinking... :mrgreen:


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

DJ Niner said:


> Hello kg333,
> 
> I'm a certified test examiner for ND, and some of the info in your post seems to be missing or a little out-of-date. There is no longer a proficiency test requirement, just the written test; however, the written test must be administered in person by a ND certified test examiner (not sure if there are any in your area). The fee you referenced is just the testing fee; there is also an application fee of $35 which is submitted to the state along with the application. You also have to get fingerprints on a "blue" FBI card, and most fingerprint technicians or LE agencies are going to charge a small fee for you to get printed. If you download the testing pamphlet it outlines the procedure in a little more detail.
> 
> Although I generally agree with the above posters on the age requirement, strangely enough, the ND CCW webpage does not show any age restriction "notes" for use in Kentucky (as they do for some other states), so it's quite possible that your technical reading is correct. However, the rule that Todd referenced in his last paragraph, above, was specifically designed to keep residents of certain states from doing just what you want to do (get an out-of-state permit and use it in-state before you would otherwise be able to qualify for a resident permit). Based on this, I'm quite sure that the great state of Kentucky (and its law enforcement officials) would take a dim view of this plan if it were to come up in any way during use. Some folks just don't appreciate innovative thinking... :mrgreen:


Ah, thanks for info on testing, DJNiner, I had been wondering whether that part was up to date, since some of the materials I saw didn't mention a proficiency test.

I've got a letter in to the State Police CCDW Section asking for clarification on these statues. To be honest, it sounded like a bit of much of a hassle to get to carry a knife before 21 (since a handgun before 21 is another can of worms), and as you said, I'm sure they'll take a dim view of the idea. However, there does seem to be a hole in the logic of the statues here if they meant to prohibit all concealed carry before 21, and I'm curious as to what they'll actually say...oh no, I'm starting to think like a lawyer... :smt107 :mrgreen:

Thanks to everyone for the input!

KG


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## dagored (Oct 29, 2008)

You might want to buy this:

http://www.gunlawguide.com/index.htm

I travel and it has loads of info. Worth $13.


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