# How many bullets would you use in a CCW defensive situation?



## alucard (Mar 4, 2007)

Number of Bullets used in self-defense, against one or two attackers.

1-3 bullets?

4-6 bullets?

7 or more bullets?


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## Phelptwan (Jun 17, 2007)

As many as it takes to eliminate the threat (not this is not to be read as kill the bad guy). So...depends on the situation.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Phelptwan said:


> As many as it takes to eliminate the threat (not this is not to be read as kill the bad guy). So...depends on the situation.


+1 You can't guess ahead of time. I got to watch a lovely video of a cop who kept shooting - and hitting - a BG who was apparently on something. Not only did he not fall, he continued to try to open the tool box on his pick up after the gun he was firing at the cop was empty. The cop emptied two magazines on the guy, hit him with each round at very close range, and when the guy kept coming and shooting he finally put one his head. A video I'll never forget. So you can't guess. You may need one, you may need 10.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Shoot 'em to the ground. Might take one shot each, might take a magazine. 

Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

All of 'em.

Check out the book "thank God I had a gun."

Most of the everyday citizens didn't count bullets, they just shot until it went click.

Unless you're combat hardened and well trained, I suspect that's what we all would do when seriously threatened.

WM


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## big dutchman (Jan 9, 2007)

hopefully it doesn't take me any more shots than what i carry, usually that is 5 of the 357mag variety. i think i read somewhere that the average number of rounds used in a defensive shooting in less than 2. i plan to shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

big dutchman said:


> i think i read somewhere that the average number of rounds used in a defensive shooting in less than 2.


Which by definition means half of them were more than two. :mrgreen:


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

*attn; wandering man*



Wandering Man said:


> All of 'em.
> 
> Check out the book "thank God I had a gun."
> 
> ...


did you get that book in a regular book store wanderingman?, i would like to get a copy of it
as far as the question goes,it is quite impossible to answer.


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## OJ (Dec 25, 2006)

Personally, I believe in rule #2 in Combat Rules for USMC: Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap - life is expensive.

:smt1099:smt023


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Simple, Stop the Threat. Pratice one or more to the head. I know small target but if he is coming at you it gets big in a hurry.


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## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

stormbringerr said:


> did you get that book in a regular book store wanderingman?, i would like to get a copy of it
> as far as the question goes,it is quite impossible to answer.


Barnes & Noble has it: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780965678452&itm=1

I've also seen it in a few gun stores. Its a good book to read, and then to pass on to someone else who is on the fence about handguns.

WM


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

*thanx*

thanx W_M, i`ll pick up a copy of it.:smt023


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

OJ said:


> Personally, I believe in rule #2 in Combat Rules for USMC: Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap - life is expensive.
> 
> :smt1099:smt023


life is more than expensive its priceless!


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## JimmySays (Jun 8, 2007)

Wandering Man said:


> All of 'em.
> 
> Check out the book "thank God I had a gun."
> 
> ...


 WM stole my line. 1st magazine is a gimme, after I reload I will reavaluate the situation.


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## westernamerican (May 28, 2007)

*As many as it takes!







*


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2007)

I believe that no one can predict how many rounds they will fire. As I study reports, specifically the FBI's handgun wounding factors and effectiveness report, an average of 2 rounds land on the target regardless of how many rounds are fired. If you fire 10 rounds and only 2 hit their target, where are the rest going? 

I think that it is a matter of how many can you count on landing on the intended target? If you are at contact distance you may be able to land more than you would from 10ft. out or more out. If I am within 5 ft. I may shoot more because I can land more. 

Most people don't know how many shots they fired in a situation. I can't tell you how many I will fire if and when the time comes. 

___________________
Brian K. LaMaster
Innovative Tactical Concepts, LLC


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## falshman70 (Jul 13, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Which by definition means half of them were more than two. :mrgreen:


Actually that would be the median. If four shootings took only one shot, but one took six shots, the average per shooting would be 2 shots. :smt082

Just kidding - I hated stat.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

*Advice from a retired NYS Trooper*

Keep shooting until he's dead. In the chest first, head last.

There WILL be a lawsuit either way, dead or alive, be it the BG, his family, or the state. Juries have sympathy for pathetic FORMER BGs in a wheel chair. If he's dead, you're fighting his relatives. Often enough, they're just as glad as YOU that he's gone...

If he's in your home, and you've told him you have a gun, he's willing to die.

If he's on the street, and he threatens with a gun/knife, he does not value life, yours, or his own.

If he's looking forard to meeting his god anyway... I'm just helping him along...

Jeff


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## OJ (Dec 25, 2006)

Jeff Cooper put it best when he stated you have 2 problems when your life/health is threatened by bad guys. If you don't solve #1 (saving your life) immediately, you won't have to worry about #2 (possible legal reprecussions).

Marine rules of combat:

7.	In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn't. 

And -

20.	Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

21.	The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get. 

:smt1099


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## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

In the spirit of Jesse Stone: "Continue to engage until the threat is eliminated." A sentiment pretty much everyone else has already voiced.


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

as many as it takes. Shoot all 9 reload. Shoot 8 in backup mag. Beat attacker about head and shoulders with the slide of the gun. 
Stay in the fight untill the fight is over. Aggression is the winner of most fights.


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## Frank V (Aug 5, 2007)

You shoot till the threat is eliminated! And only till the threat is eliminated shoot anymore and you will become the aggresor which is a very bad situation. Frank


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## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

Frank V said:


> You shoot till the threat is eliminated! And only till the threat is eliminated shoot anymore and you will become the aggresor which is a very bad situation. Frank


Very good point that deserves reiteration...there is a fine line between self-defense and murder.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

As a young Air Force Security Policeman the "Use of Force" was 'bout beatin' into us and I still retain it though I've been out since '83. So my answer is- what ever it would take to stop the aggression. If it was one shot-great! If not, then shot till the threat is neutralized.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffWard said:


> Keep shooting until he's dead. In the chest first, head last.


This is bad advice. Execute a guy with an unnecessary shot to the head and you won't have to worry about a lawsuit since you will be in prison. I think I'd rather deal with a frivolous lawsuit than anal rape, thanks.

Shoot until he stops his aggressive behavior. That is all the law allows. Go beyond that and you are just as much a criminal as the guy who attacked you.



> There WILL be a lawsuit either way, dead or alive, be it the BG, his family, or the state.


Objectively not true. Not every defensive shooting is followed by a lawsuit. Some are, some aren't. Probably more likely to face a suit in NY than AZ, however.



> If he's looking forard to meeting his god anyway... I'm just helping him along...


I don't think all street criminals are Muslim fanatics looking to go to Allah.


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

I'd have to say as many as takes... and pray to god it doesn't any more than 2. More importantly... pray to god I'm never put in that situation where I would need to use deadly force.


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## mvslay (May 6, 2007)

I'd really hope for none. I'd be willing to burn all available if necessary.

I've personally witnessed one instance, where an armed club owner ended a fight before it started, no shots fired I might add.

"There are two types of fighters, the quick and the dead." Company's response to Drill Sergaent's question.

As far as the shots fired go, I believe that a CCL holder has a responsibility to practice. The more you train, the higher your hit to miss ratio. More hits equals less shots fired.

I guess my stance is as many it takes. The closer to Zero the better. But if stopping a violent agressor means ending their life, so be it. In my opinion attempting a head shot would be a last ditch effort at best.

Also, in my opinion, the armed citizen poses a different threat to a criminal than a LEO. The meassures a LEO has to use against a criminal are a bit more extreme. If a criminal assaults a civilian, the civilian will probably only be concerned with self preservation. Civilians are more likely to use lethal force and not be concerned with subdueing the assailant. A criminal is more likely to turn and run if robbery or assault are the only motivations. LEO's are not only concerned with self preservation. LEO's have a duty to arrest criminals. Criminals will use more drastic means to escape arrest. With this in mind, I just don't believe police deffensive shootings are an exact parrellel to civilian ccw use. Avoiding jail will always motivate a criminal far more than a wallet.


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