# Sears and Kmart - Defense Free Zones



## paintsnow (Jun 3, 2010)

I was kicked out of a Sears in my home town. I am not going to say asked to leave, or polity escorted out, because of how the manager treated me, and was threatening me with arrest. OC is legal in the state of NV, and i was not being disruptive, a buddy and i were simply looking at tools.While i was OCing, this policy applies to CC as well. "Concealed is concealed" people, i respect your view, but please take a look at the "United front" quote i include towards the end.

Sears response to a phone call asking for clarification on their firearms policy:
"Dear sir,

Thank you for your recent correspondence. We are always interested in
hearing from our customers, and regret it was this type of situation
that prompted you to contact us. We apologize for the inconvenience you
have experienced and understand your frustration with firearms not being
allowed in Sears stores.

With regard to your suggestion that Sears change its policy regarding
weapons in the workplace, Sears has no intention of doing so at this
time as we remain focused on providing a safe shopping and work
environment for our customers and associates

Once again, we apologize for your experience with firearms not being
allowed in Sears stores. We appreciate your business, and value you as a
customer. We certainly hope you will continue to make Sears Holdings
Corporation your choice for quality and value.

Sincerely,
Brooke G.
Retail Customer Care
Sears Holdings Corporation"

Kmart's response to a separate email asking about the Corporate policy regarding the legal carry of firearms into their stores:
"
Dear sir,

Thank you for your recent correspondence. We are always interested in
hearing from our customers, and regret it was this type of situation
that prompted you to contact us. We apologize for any frustration you
have encountered with our Gun Policy.

You may forward your comments to:

Sears Holdings Corporation
3333 Beverly Road
Mail Stop RR-1
Hoffman Estates, IL 60179

Once more, thank you for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate
your business and value you as a Sears Holdings customer. We certainly
hope you will continue to make Sears Holdings your choice for quality
and value.

Sincerely,
Ray J
Retail Customer Care
Sears Holdings Corporation "

Please feel free to send letter, emails, or phone calls in to both companies letting them know if they will be losing your business. Personally i will not be spending any money with either store unless the policy is changed, and i will be informing all of my friends who support the 2nd amendment of their policy.

Hopefully we can get Sears Holdings Corporation to reconsider and take an approach similar to their competitors such as Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart and other companies such as Starbucks that go along with state law, instead of infringing on 2nd amendment rights and not allowing customers to protect themselves.

Somebody on a local forum discussing the incident posted this:

""Here is my suggestion: let's put up a united front. When gun owners are treated poorly for acting within their rights, we support them in that activity instead of getting all high and mighty. Or, let's continue to splinter ourselves. FUDDs over there, concealed only snobs on this side, cops over here, NFA owners (you unpopular @#$%s...why do you need a silencer or a machine gun?). Hand together or hang alone, y'know? ""

So please, feel free to repost this on any local, small forums, or other large forums i have not heard about, it gotten around to posting on yet. Lets band together, and get some changes made!

Again, i urge you all to send Sears and email stating that they have lost your business until they revise their policy.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/nb_10153_12608_NB_CSeMail?adCell=WF

Thank you.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Im already with a "United Front"....and that United Front says Sears or Kmart of any other company can declare whatever rules they fell they need. If its THEIR policy...nation wide....and used without bias...then you dont have a leg to stand on IMHO.

IMHO you can whine all you like but that dont make it "right" just because YOU want it that way.


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## paintsnow (Jun 3, 2010)

Sully2 said:


> Im already with a "United Front"....and that United Front says Sears or Kmart of any other company can declare whatever rules they fell they need. If its THEIR policy...nation wide....and used without bias...then you dont have a leg to stand on IMHO.
> 
> IMHO you can whine all you like but that dont make it "right" just because YOU want it that way.


They do have that right, and we have the right to do business elsewhere, and make them aware of that.

The nationwide boycott of Best Buy and Home Depot worked, they changed their policies in our favor.

Why would you support a company, that doesnt support your right to carry, and doesnt want you in their stores?


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

paintsnow said:


> They do have that right, and we have the right to do business elsewhere, and make them aware of that.
> 
> The nationwide boycott of Best Buy and Home Depot worked, they changed their policies in our favor.
> 
> Why would you support a company, that doesnt support your right to carry, and doesnt want you in their stores?


Supporting my right to carry.....and not wanting me inside one of their stores with a loaded handgun are TWO totally different things.

I FULLY support anyones right to carry a weapon....but dont try and come into my home with one!:mrgreen:

And why is it that people that typically cry over being tossed from a store because of that....NEVER put their location in their sig line? You MIGHT live in an area that me personally would insist I be allowed to carry Claymore into to feel safe...but no one ever lets other know...


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## paintsnow (Jun 3, 2010)

Sorry, i live in Las Vegas, Nevada.

But why does it matter where you live? Everyone has the same right to carry. Its a nationwide blanket policy. I understand they are free to enforce it, but why cant we show them how much business they will lose if they continue to hold that policy?

Politicians who vote on topics against what the majority they represent want can do that. Are you going to sit there and say, well, they are free to vote how they want, lets reelect them? 

We have the power to change this by spending money elsewhere, until Sears realizes that gun owners are a large percentage of their sales, and changes their policy.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

So, let me get this straight... your first post on this forum is about how you got kicked out of a business (which is not public, see Ron White for definition of public) because they're exercising THEIR rights, and you want to teach them a lesson about YOUR rights? 

Your right to open carry are defined with parameters. Those parameters give you the right to carry within them. A private business is not within those parameters, as it is left up to them to decide. That's THEIR right. So, not spending money there is supposed to teach them a lesson, ok... did you ever consider that they've already been taught a lesson? Google "Sears shootings". You'll be able to spend a few hours reading thru multiple reports of shootings in Sears. The lesson I'm certain they learned is that they got their asses sued off every time, so they crafted a policy, well within their rights, that prohibits guns from being in their stores. Why? So when the NEXT shooting occurs in a Sears store, they have a better legal foothold to prevent getting sued again. I'd bet they're taking a calculated (monetary) risk by having the policy because it's probably cheaper for them to lose a bit of money on the front end because you won't shop there versus having to explain to some jackass lawyer who's suing them for not having a stronger position on guns if they didn't have the policy.

What next... are you going to boycott police stations? Because you can't open carry there either.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

paintsnow said:


> Sorry, i live in Las Vegas, Nevada.
> 
> But why does it matter where you live? Everyone has the same right to carry. Its a nationwide blanket policy. I understand they are free to enforce it, but why cant we show them how much business they will lose if they continue to hold that policy?
> 
> ...


If...IF most of what I read about Vegas is 100% correct...then if I lived there I would carry....but still not openly. I spend the time and effort and $$ to get a CCW for Ohio...even though Ohio has had an open carry law on the books for decades ( or more)

Voting a politician out is one thing...but to even think that companys such as Sear are worried even an iota about "our business" ( singularly) is foolhardy at best


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

zhurdan said:


> So, let me get this straight... your first post on this forum is about how you got kicked out of a business (which is not public, see Ron White for definition of public) because they're exercising THEIR rights, and you want to teach them a lesson about YOUR rights?
> 
> Your right to open carry are defined with parameters. Those parameters give you the right to carry within them. A private business is not within those parameters, as it is left up to them to decide. That's THEIR right. So, not spending money there is supposed to teach them a lesson, ok... did you ever consider that they've already been taught a lesson? Google "Sears shootings". You'll be able to spend a few hours reading thru multiple reports of shootings in Sears. The lesson I'm certain they learned is that they got their asses sued off every time, so they crafted a policy, well within their rights, that prohibits guns from being in their stores. Why? So when the NEXT shooting occurs in a Sears store, they have a better legal foothold to prevent getting sued again. I'd bet they're taking a calculated (monetary) risk by having the policy because it's probably cheaper for them to lose a bit of money on the front end because you won't shop there versus having to explain to some jackass lawyer who's suing them for not having a stronger position on guns if they didn't have the policy.
> 
> What next... are you going to boycott police stations? Because you can't open carry there either.


*X2* Right on!


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

Lowes, Home Depot, Starbucks, Wal-Mart, Outdoor world, The Las Vegas RTC (the bus system in Las Vegas) are among the few that have changed their policy and made it known to their management and other employees that it is perfectly fine to carry a handgun in their facilities as long as it is done within the same laws of the state which they are in. They did this because of pressure from the Pro gun community.

I live in Las Vegas and I open carry 100% of the time, Why not CCW? Because as of now I don't have my CCW, it has not arrived in the mail yet. There are also many people who open carry here because they can not yet get a CCW and can legally open carry since they can legally own a hand gun. For instance if you are 18 or older but under 21 you can legally OC but can not get a CCW till you are 21.

I believe what Paintsnow is attempting to do is stand up and say, Yes you have the right to not allow us in your store, however by exercising that right you are going to lose business... Because as a group of citizens who support the 2nd Amendment we also have the right to boycott your store because we are not wanted there.

The fact of the matter is that to many Gun Owners the 2nd Amendment means nothing. or at least the last part means nothing... The "Shall not be infringed" part that is. Many gun owners could care less about being able to legally carry a gun for that matter. 

It is your choice to support or not support Anti Gun establishments but it is no different than supporting a candidate that has views that conflict with your own, you are just going to hurt your own cause in the long run. 

The term "divide and concur" comes to mind... Get the Hunters against the Assault rifle guys and the Revolver guys against the Semi auto guys and the open Carry guys against the Concealed carry guys and... You probably get the point, "United we stand Divided we fall" is still a valid statement, yes?

Just my opinion though! :smt1099


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

SCJeffro said:


> ...
> It is your choice to support or not support Anti Gun establishments but it is no different than supporting a candidate that has views that conflict with your own, you are just going to hurt your own cause in the long run.


There most certainly IS a difference...and a BIG difference.

I HAVE TO buy from Lowes and Home Depot...etc ( I wouldnt buy a thing from Starbucks if they were giving it away though) Im not going to buy 3 sheets of drywall or some oak trim...etc...for a room Im remodeling ( etc,,,etc,) over the internet as an example. But if its a political candidate or incumbent I DO NOT "have to" support them.

And if most cant see a fly in the paint job..where an 18 yr old CAN open carry a weapon...but CCW he is required to be 21...well Im not sure just who is leading that pack of blind mice? The 1860's laws need to be pulled off the books and people need to get into at least the 21 century


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

Sully2 said:


> There most certainly IS a difference...and a BIG difference.
> 
> I HAVE TO buy from Lowes and Home Depot...etc ( I wouldnt buy a thing from Starbucks if they were giving it away though) Im not going to buy 3 sheets of drywall or some oak trim...etc...for a room Im remodeling ( etc,,,etc,) over the internet as an example. But if its a political candidate or incumbent I DO NOT "have to" support them.
> 
> And if most cant see a fly in the paint job..where an 18 yr old CAN open carry a weapon...but CCW he is required to be 21...well Im not sure just who is leading that pack of blind mice? The 1860's laws need to be pulled off the books and people need to get into at least the 21 century


You are not getting it...

If you CHOOSE to support Sears, you are CHOOSING to support an Anti Gun Establishment. That is NO different than knowing "Candidate X" is AGAINST something you believe in and you CHOOSING to go vote for "Candidate X" anyway... you are thus, IN BOTH INSTANCES, Supporting someone or something that is against something you believe in or support... It is really not that difficult to grasp.

Now if you chose to support Sears because you don't care about Gun Rights then that is your choice as well...

Those of us that stood up to Lowes, Home Depot (and many other places that USED TO BE Anti Gun) did so because we wanted to shop there but refused to until they changed their policy. It worked, so now when you go buy your drywall and oak trim you can know that you can carry in their store with no issues, because someone took the initiative and helped change their policy (just like paintsnow is doing with Sears)... :smt023

As for the law, agree with it or not it is the law, if you don't like it, do something about it... I believe it it is ridiculous that at 18 a person can vote, and go to war and die for our country, but can't get a CCW, buy a handgun or even a beer for that matter until they are 21... But I digress that topic is for a different thread


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

SCJeffro said:


> You are not getting it...
> 
> If you CHOOSE to support Sears, you are CHOOSING to support an Anti Gun Establishment. That is NO different than knowing "Candidate X" is AGAINST something you believe in and you CHOOSING to go vote for "Candidate X" anyway... you are thus, IN BOTH INSTANCES, Supporting someone or something that is against something you believe in or support... It is really not that difficult to grasp.
> 
> ...


What point is missed, exactly? No one here is missing the point, they're just not able to effectively change any situation, regardless of weather you think the whole internet reads this site. This site has a grand total of 11,492 members. (no offense intended HGF.net) If Sears didn't see a single one of those 11,492 members, they wouldn't feel a thing in their pocket books. Yes, yes, yes... guilt people if you can by saying what you did (bolded), but the more intelligent person will go out and change minds in their community. Why you may ask? Because leaflets and internet boycotts don't get people out of office, local contributions to the process do. I understand you alluded to that, but pontificating on internet forums isn't the answer, especially considering that you are preaching to the choir, essentially. Prior to a couple of months ago, I visited Sears on many occasions, didn't see a single sign regarding guns. Guess what... carried a gun THE WHOLE TIME, and no one said a word to me. Imagine that... concealed carry... no one saw it, no one bothered me. I wasn't looking for attention, and behold, I didn't get any. Makes sense to me.

Do people really think that a company policy is any concern to someone who has ill intent on killing someone? If you think a policy prevents the bad guys from bringing guns into a store, then you need a reality check. Sure, the policies are fraked up, but it's not the hodge-podge of internet forum posters that are going to ACTUALLY send a letter to their representatives. Sure, you might get 50 out of 11,492 (less than that are actually active btw), but that's a proverbial drop in the bucket. Now, if you go out and get 50 citizens in your local town to buy into it, and they go out and get even 10, it's far more effective as the people running for office actually HEAR your message, whereas Sears could give two shits about 1000 letters. Why? Because there aren't any faces attached to them. There aren't voters attached to them that are willing to forgo their remodel, or that blender, or that vacuum.

I hate to say it, but I've had enough of open carry bullshit to fill a swimming pool. If those that are so fond of open carry actually did something on their local level, (and I don't mean walking around with a video camera and taunting the cops to say something like some idiots do) they'd have more far reaching effects than pontificating on the internet. Why? Because the fact of the matter is, most people are completely uneducated, aside from what Hollywood shows them, about firearms. Wanna make a difference? Get instructor certified, teach a class, show up to City Council meetings (sans gun, because that would be illegal) and speak your mind intelligently rather than say "You're all a bunch of hypocrites for not supporting "my rights", all the while ignoring others rights. Most Pro-2nd advocates are just one video taped statement away from being classified as a nut job. They berate people for violating their rights, yet forget that those people are simply expressing THEIR rights. Imagine that. Selfish pricks telling us we can't have guns and stuff.

This may sound anti-gun, but I'm the farthest thing from it. I just tire of seeing the jackoff at Wal-Mart with a gun on his hip, then seeing him at the range and he's a complete Fraktard that doesn't even know how to shoot worth a crap. "Lemme own gunz and shizzle, even though I don't know how to use it properly." *shakes head* Burning powder doesn't mean you know how to use the weapon effectively, and that is the crux of why I'm posting this. This forum is by and large, more about the discussion of weapons, (intelligently) and their employment, and the admiration for their intended purpose, not rabble rousing and calling for boycotts. Can a boycott be effective? Sure. Is it the end all, be all that everyone should follow suit with and open carry? Please... like I said earlier, very few people know I carry a gun daily, and I like those odds better than being the primary target of some jackass willing to commit a crime. Think you won't be first to die? Think again. I know if I was looking for no good, I'd make sure to pop the dumbass broadcasting to the world that he has a gun.

Forgive me Mods, I've just had enough of the stupidity. (If the only option you have is open carry, more power to you, but it's not the best option, if the option is available.)


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

zhurdan said:


> What point is missed, exactly? No one here is missing the point, they're just not able to effectively change any situation, regardless of weather you think the whole internet reads this site. This site has a grand total of 11,492 members. (no offense intended HGF.net) If Sears didn't see a single one of those 11,492 members, they wouldn't feel a thing in their pocket books. Yes, yes, yes... guilt people if you can by saying what you did (bolded), but the more intelligent person will go out and change minds in their community. Why you may ask? Because leaflets and internet boycotts don't get people out of office, local contributions to the process do. I understand you alluded to that, but pontificating on internet forums isn't the answer, especially considering that you are preaching to the choir, essentially. Prior to a couple of months ago, I visited Sears on many occasions, didn't see a single sign regarding guns. Guess what... carried a gun THE WHOLE TIME, and no one said a word to me. Imagine that... concealed carry... no one saw it, no one bothered me. I wasn't looking for attention, and behold, I didn't get any. Makes sense to me.
> 
> Do people really think that a company policy is any concern to someone who has ill intent on killing someone? If you think a policy prevents the bad guys from bringing guns into a store, then you need a reality check. Sure, the policies are fraked up, but it's not the hodge-podge of internet forum posters that are going to ACTUALLY send a letter to their representatives. Sure, you might get 50 out of 11,492 (less than that are actually active btw), but that's a proverbial drop in the bucket. Now, if you go out and get 50 citizens in your local town to buy into it, and they go out and get even 10, it's far more effective as the people running for office actually HEAR your message, whereas Sears could give two shits about 1000 letters. Why? Because there aren't any faces attached to them. There aren't voters attached to them that are willing to forgo their remodel, or that blender, or that vacuum.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, So your NOT in on the boycott then? :smt017
OC is (at the moment) my only option of carry :smt023 Thanks for the advice!


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

SCJeffro said:


> *Thanks for the reply, So your NOT in on the boycott then? *:smt017
> OC is (at the moment) my only option of carry :smt023 Thanks for the advice!


Who's missing the point now?

I said "months ago" in regards to not visiting Sears. That's when I first heard about their policy. I'm not spending money there, but that's a personal choice. What I AM doing is informing the would be anti-gunners, one person at a time. Taking them shooting, letting them know that it's a tool, and it's only as dangerous as you make it. I choose where I spend my money based on many things. I choose who I vote for based on their responsiveness to the people of their town/city/district. Luckily, my state is gravitating back to where it's roots came from. I like to think I was a itsy bitsy part of that. As of last Saturday, I've brought about 20 people from the "I hate guns" side, to the "wow, that was really fun and I want to learn more side".

Guess what, it didn't take a single boycott.


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

zhurdan said:


> Who's missing the point now?
> 
> I said "months ago" in regards to not visiting Sears. That's when I first heard about their policy. I'm not spending money there, but that's a personal choice. What I AM doing is informing the would be anti-gunners, one person at a time. Taking them shooting, letting them know that it's a tool, and it's only as dangerous as you make it. I choose where I spend my money based on many things. I choose who I vote for based on their responsiveness to the people of their town/city/district. Luckily, my state is gravitating back to where it's roots came from. I like to think I was a itsy bitsy part of that. As of last Saturday, I've brought about 20 people from the "I hate guns" side, to the "wow, that was really fun and I want to learn more side".
> 
> Guess what, it didn't take a single boycott.


Oh I missed nothing, I got your point!  and that is good to hear! I am right there with you, I too am informing the would be anti-gunners, one person at a time! I make it a point to bring those opposed to the side of those that don't whenever I get a chance! It is not like posting on this forum is the ONLY method being used to front this cause. Face to face interactions with the store, the managers, their security etc are all good places to take this and it will be taken there as well!


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Glad to here it, but please, get a concealed permit, and if you haven't already, get some professional training. It's worth every penny. Don't be the first victim when danger strikes. (From experience, it takes more than just being situationally aware, because you don't have eyes in the back of your head.)


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

zhurdan said:


> Glad to here it, but please, get a concealed permit, and if you haven't already, get some professional training. It's worth every penny. Don't be the first victim when danger strikes. (From experience, it takes more than just being situationally aware, because you don't have eyes in the back of your head.)


MY CCW is on it's way from Carson City, NV as we speak, and don't assume just because someone OCs that they don't have any "professional training" :smt023 they might even have more than you!


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Didn't assume that at all, simply said "and if you haven't already". Sound advice for anyone carrying a gun on a daily basis.

G'night... early day tomorrow. (Gonna help with a campaign for a pro-2nd Governor before work)


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

zhurdan said:


> Your right to open carry are defined with parameters. Those parameters give you the right to carry within them. A private business is not within those parameters, as it is left up to them to decide. That's THEIR right.


:smt023

I'm all for 'sending messages' to businesses that make a point of expressing their political views in a way that is designed to influence public opinion. It's arrogant, in my opinion, just as it is arrogant for movie stars and other celebrities to think their opinions carry more weight because of their popularity. They are basically just exploiting those 'followers' who are too politically unsophisticated to think for themselves, and I'm opposed to anything that causes people to vote who do not understand what they are voting for.

But, on the other hand, a business can have a particular policy, for legal reasons, and I won't try to 'second-guess' the logic of that business decision, as long as they don't try to influence public opinion. Once they do that, they have chosen sides, and they alienate one side or the other, and are fair game.


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## cowboy2 (Dec 12, 2009)

*Sears and Kmart-Defense Free Zones*

I believe we should all stick together.Look what gets done because of the NRA. In Missouri there was a store that sold general merchandise ,sort of like a dollar store,he got robbed a lot just down the street there was another store who sold semilar items but didn't get robbed and he asked the owner what he done to prevent it and the owner said see my signs on both sides of the door,'I welcome CCW customers.He said maybe that does it maybe not but I think if I was a theif I would pick the place to do my crime who doesn't allow CCW. There are a few stores where I live that don't allow CCW and that is there right,but I have the right not to support them also,do I think I make a difference,maybe not but with others feeling the same way I do and I have seen stores change their minds.I just think I am safer in stores that allow CCW,you don't know who is carrying.
If we fight among ourselves or don't stick together you can bet these forums are being monitered buy anti-gun people and we give them ideas how to keep us apart and how they can slowly divid us apart.I respect anyone's right to support or not to support the establishements right not to lets us carry but you won't catch me in their stores,I have a right also and I believe we do make a difference.If we give up even a small right it may turn into a bigger right down the road.Just my opinion and I respect others opinions on this forum.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

SCJeffro said:


> You are not getting it...
> 
> If you CHOOSE to support Sears, you are CHOOSING to support an Anti Gun Establishment. That is NO different than knowing "Candidate X" is AGAINST something you believe in and you CHOOSING to go vote for "Candidate X" anyway... you are thus, IN BOTH INSTANCES, Supporting someone or something that is against something you believe in or support... It is really not that difficult to grasp.


But thats incorrect in all cases. If I choose to not drink,,,does that mean I support prohibition? Not in the slightest! And if I knew candidate "X" was against something I believe in...there is no way Id vote for him ( her). And just because I think the legal system is FAR too lenient on certain murder criminals does not mean I support the "get a rope" group either!


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

Tennessee also allows open carry. I don't open carry and I don't recall seeing anyone else open carry. OK, I take that back. The guy at the gun store open carries in his store. But, if you go in a gun store, you expect to see people with guns.

There are very few stores in my city that are posted with "No Firearms" signs. That includes Sears and Kmart. 

I can't help but feel that this whole thing could have been avoided if the weapon had been concealed. I've not been carrying long, but I've not had a bit of problem anywhere that I have gone.

Some people don't like guns, period. They have just as much right not to like them as I do to like them. Sometimes people don't like the way a particular person looks or the way a particular gun looks. 

Right now, it looks like a lot of chain stores are handling this "open carry" thing on an individual basis as the issue arises. 

Go ahead and boycott. Flex your muscles and watch them push back. Watch the signs go up at the entrance to every store.

Then all of us can leave our guns in the car.

I'll throw in a couple of more thoughts that you may or may not agree with.

I once had a boss who was fond of saying "If you stick your ass out there far enough, there's always somebody ready to kick it."

Sometimes, I think that's where this open carry thing is going.

I've heard the argument that if you don't exercise the right you will lose it.

Some states allow folks to ride motorcycles without helmets.

Does that mean that everyone who rides a motorcycle should go bareheaded, even the ones with some common sense?

When your protests about your right to open carry start infringing on my right to carry, period, then we will no longer be on the same side.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The danger is that an open-carry activist will do something really stupid that the media can exploit to whip up a public outcry against citizens carrying guns. 

Hell, if they can sell man-made global warming and universal health care to half of the country, they can probably sell about anything.


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

Bisley said:


> The danger is that an open-carry activist will do something really stupid that the media can exploit to whip up a public outcry against citizens carrying guns.
> 
> Hell, if they can sell man-made global warming and universal health care to half of the country, they can probably sell about anything.


Oh, they don't even have to be open carrying.

A man accidentally shot himself in the testicles at Lowe's Home Improvement store in Lynnwood Sunday afternoon, police said.

The man's handgun, which was in the waistband of his pants, went off at about 12:30 p.m. - an apparent "accidental discharge," according to Shannon Sessions, a Lynnwood police spokeswoman.

"It made a loud noise and scared a lot of people in the store," Sessions said. "I believe he shot himself in the testicles and he also had some injuries to his leg and foot. He was obviously in shock."

Local News | Man accidentally shoots himself in testicles | Seattle Times Newspaper

No word yet on whether he held a permit or not. That of course will just be the icing on the proverbial cake.

This isn't about global warming or health care or selling anything to anybody, this is about people with guns doing such stupid shit with them that any reasonable person would say "Get rid of all of them".

Your "right to bear arms" does not have your "right to be an idiot" tacked on as an amendment.

*Those of us that stood up to Lowes, Home Depot (and many other places that USED TO BE Anti Gun) did so because we wanted to shop there but refused to until they changed their policy.*

Remember that thing about "hanging your ass out far enough"?

Call that Lowe's in Lynwood and ask them about their gun policy now.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

~Pogo


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

MorganOverlook said:


> ---
> 
> I can't help but feel that this whole thing could have been avoided if the weapon had been concealed. I've not been carrying long, but I've not had a bit of problem anywhere that I have gone.
> 
> ...


While I agree with the statement "this whole thing could have been avoided if the weapon had been concealed." It is a moot point... He Can't Carry Concealed, he has NO CCW so he chose to Carry (within the law of Nevada, Openly) I don't have a CCW I OC every day, Once my CCW arrives in the mail that will likely change but until then I will continue to OC as it is either OC or go unarmed... If I am "OK' being unarmed, then why even CC? We all Carry for a reason, If we had no reason and were fine with not carrying then we could just not carry...

as far as seeing signs at all the stores, I would rather see signs at all the stores that have a policy against guns! It would help to show those that continually say "But I carry in my local BIG BOX STORE and they have never said a word" So even though the store has a policy stating they are anti gun you continue shopping there and spending money there because you haven't seen a sign and they haven't told you to leave personally??

That is like continuing to shop at stores that you know, continually donate millions of the dollars YOU spend there to support the Brady campaign to disarm America... It hasn't effected you YET....



MorganOverlook said:


> *Those of us that stood up to Lowes, Home Depot (and many other places that USED TO BE Anti Gun) did so because we wanted to shop there but refused to until they changed their policy.*
> 
> ---
> 
> Call that Lowe's in Lynwood and ask them about their gun policy now.


I have spoken with the store manager of the store in Lynwood as well as a national rep for the rest of the Lowes stores in the nation. They said "it was an unfortunate accident and we will continue to follow the same firearms policy as before the incident. Our policy is to follow the laws of the state the store in question is in. If the state allows firearms to be carried, hidden or openly, so does Lowes."

:smt023



MorganOverlook said:


> "We have met the enemy and he is us."


Almost... "We have met the enemy and he is _among_ us" is more accurate
It is he that continually sits back and does NOTHING, it is he who continues to support businesses that are anti gun and anti 2nd Amendment, it is he who is a gun owner but anti gun rights.... We have many (perhaps unknowingly) enemy's among us...


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

I'm sure you're opinion and mine are going to differ on this. So be it.

*While I agree with the statement "this whole thing could have been avoided if the weapon had been concealed." It is a moot point... He Can't Carry Concealed, he has NO CCW so he chose to Carry (within the law of Nevada, Openly) I don't have a CCW I OC every day, Once my CCW arrives in the mail that will likely change but until then I will continue to OC as it is either OC or go unarmed*

As far as I'm concerned, you just need to show some patience, sit on your thumb and wait for your permit.

"No, let's make a big deal out of it".

Oh, and I'll add one more note since you tried to get all santimonious about people being on your side, I'm going to guess that your age is somewhere between twelve and twenty-five.

Go ahead. Each and every time I see another store or restaurant with a "No Firearms Allowed" sign by the front door, I'll remember you and how you're fighting for my cause.


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

MorganOverlook said:


> Each and every time I see another store or restaurant with a "No Firearms Allowed" sign by the front door, I'll remember you and how you're fighting for my cause.


As of now I have convinced 8 business owners (3 of which have multiple locations) in NV and AZ to remove their no firearms signs or replace them with firearms friendly signs. :smt023 I will continue doing what I am doing.

How many no firearms signs have YOU been able to have removed?


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## MorganOverlook (May 4, 2010)

SCJeffro said:


> As of now I have convinced 8 business owners (3 of which have multiple locations) in NV and AZ to remove their no firearms signs or replace them with firearms friendly signs. :smt023 I will continue doing what I am doing.
> 
> How many no firearms signs have YOU been able to have removed?


Well, so far I've not seen any. But then, you've not shown up in my state packing your pistols yet.


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

It doesnt matter what the states law says...OC or CCW only...all someone needs to do is to SEE you in "X" location...open carrying and call the cops.. They come..see whats going on...they DONT arrest you but they WILL make your day a royal PITA...and dont say it wont happen because it DOES HAPPEN.

Now...if one wishes to spend 30-45 minutes of their day...explaining to some LEO or pair of LEO's everything from their shoe size to having a cavity search done because they "look suspicious" ...go right ahead I say.

The application of just a tad of "brain power" will tell "you" there are places where its NOT the smartest to OC...but you people can do as you see fit...because its not ME they will have bent over the desk doing an "anal probe" on!!!:anim_lol:


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

Sully2 said:


> blah blah blah...


ANSWER THE QUESTION SULLY...

How many no firearms signs have YOU been able to have removed? What are YOU doing about the problem? That is right, you are ignoring it, you are riding the coat tails of successes that those of us that ARE doing something about it are seeing. I have been OCing for a long time now and you know what? I have NEVER been stopped by LEO (and have been around them plenty of times) NEVER had a run in with those that oppose OC (Except of course on "Gun friendly forums") and usually it is the elitist who CC only that oppose it...) No anal probes for me buddy, you can keep all those to yourself you seem to know a lot about them!

Do LEO stops happen? Sure they do, when sheep (with your mindset) call the cops... Do the LEO encounters all end badly with beat downs and harassment? NOPE sorry buddy they don't, it is a fact... There are many LEO encounter stories all over OC states where the cops were dispatched, made contact with the complainant and told them "Sorry but there is nothing we can do, he is within his rights to open carry like that. have a nice day" then went to the OCer and said "Have a nice day!"

Why exactly are you trying to Hijack this thread anyway?? Whether OC is "OK" or not is not the topic...

The topic is:
*DO YOU SUPPORT GUN RIGHTS? If you do, STOP SHOPPING AT STORES THAT DON'T AND LET THEM KNOW WHY!!!*
That is it, Plain and simple...

If you don't support the 2nd Amendment and want to be another sheep OK, that is your right as well! Aint America GREAT! You can make your own choice! (At least for now!)


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

SCJeffro said:


> ANSWER THE QUESTION SULLY...


"Do LEO stops happen? Sure they do, when sheep (with your mindset) call the cops... Do the LEO encounters all end badly with beat downs and harassment? NOPE sorry buddy they don't, it is a fact... There are many LEO encounter stories all over OC states where the cops were dispatched, made contact with the complainant and told them "Sorry but there is nothing we can do, he is within his rights to open carry like that. have a nice day" then went to the OCer and said "Have a nice day!"

If you think even for the slightest monent..that even IN a state where OC is permitted and the police are called by even a citizen bystander...LEO's appear and say "its his legal right to do it"...that the owner of that business cant tell the LEO's.. "BULL****....Remove that man from MY PROPERTY".....you got another think coming dude. Get on your pony and get away from the OK Corral mentality

You certainly arent worth arguing with over this subject. Its quite evident from your hostile demeanor that you approach far too many subjects on the verge of being wacked out!

If anything its people such as YOU that will eventually get weapons removed from the hands of anyone sane!

Shine it on homer...shine it on!


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

:watching:


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

How 'bout we get back on the topic of Sears/Kmart having a no firearms policy. I also suggest some folks review the forum rules regarding post content.


I don't ever recall seeing a sign up at either store. But I also haven't shopped at either one for several years. :mrgreen:

Email sent. :smt023


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## SCJeffro (Jun 3, 2010)

To those of you actually participating in this thread (with me) for legitimate reasons, I apologize that I responded to Sully2 in the first place, it is now obvious to me what his intentions are in this thread.

To assist those who wish to help other gun owners, Please use the following address to reach Sears for now, I am working on getting addresses for the board of directors for Sears Holdings and should have them by Monday.

*[email protected]*

(this is the email that responded from their contact page.)


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## Sully2 (Mar 9, 2010)

Thats funny!..


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

alrighty then... I think we're about done here. Points were made, some rejoiced, some cried, it's all come full circle.

Time to move along....


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