# New 1918 BAR From



## borris (Oct 28, 2012)

O.O.A / Ohio Ordnance Armory . com Very Cool Video :smt033 It's A Colt 1918 BAR Which Has Just Came Out


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Whereat the vid?


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## borris (Oct 28, 2012)

Googel HCAR = Heavy Counter Assault Riffle :smt1099


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Well, I have carried and employed a BAR in training, and that beast ain't a BAR.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman:
No, it certainly isn't! I guess it's supposed to be the modern version of it. I like the original one better. Interesting concept though.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

desertman said:


> hillman:
> No, it certainly isn't! I guess it's supposed to be the modern version of it. I like the original one better. Interesting concept though.


I watched the demonstrator's shoulder, and there doesn't look to be a lot of recoil. The real BAR had a bipod for use when firing prone. The gun used to creep _forward_ during firing on unprepared ground, you had to keep digging with your toes to stay with it. A few of the NCOs in my Guard unit were WW2 vets. I was told about the trade-off a rifleman faced when he saw the BAR guy go down. In any prolonged engagement the enemy looked hard to locate the BAR and take it out; still, there was always a volunteer to set aside his Garand and put the BAR back in the fight.

And I apologize for going off-topic here. Geezers are apt to drift.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman:
I've always liked the original M1918 "BAR" although I've never had the opportunity to fire one. Just something about it. "It's a BAR!" I often thought about getting the semi-auto version by Ohio Ordnance but you can buy a lot of nice handguns (my preference when it comes to guns) for $4300. At least those you can carry concealed. If I remember correctly Clyde Barrow had one that was sawed off. Maybe that could be carried concealed? Oh, wait open carry out here is legal same as in Vermont, I wonder if it would draw any attention? Whadda ya' think?


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

desertman said:


> hillman:
> I've always liked the original M1918 "BAR" although I've never had the opportunity to fire one. Just something about it. "It's a BAR!" I often thought about getting the semi-auto version by Ohio Ordnance but you can buy a lot of nice handguns (my preference when it comes to guns) for $4300. At least those you can carry concealed. If I remember correctly Clyde Barrow had one that was sawed off. Maybe that could be carried concealed? Oh, wait open carry out here is legal same as in Vermont, I wonder if it would draw any attention? Whadda ya' think?


Hah. It's been a few decades, but I think the BAR weighs 20 pounds empty. It didn't bother me, but I was 17 and pumped weights at the time. It would drag me down pretty good now. Yeah, carrying one would attract attention here, outside of deer season. The BAR had a lever that selected between 'slow and fast'. Slow fire was great for 'double taps'. Sarge wouldn't let me use 'fast'. Wasted ammo.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman:
Ohio Ordnance has it listed at 19.4 pounds empty, so yeah 20 pounds is accurate. I believe that modern version weighs in at about 12 pounds. I've seen the full auto versions at the West Point Museum. But have yet to come across any of the semi auto's at either gun shows or at dealers which is a good thing otherwise I would probably be $4300 poorer. I have a couple of AR 15's, who doesn't? I used to lift weights too and still keep myself fit. But still if I had to lug a rifle around all day I think I'd take the AR. However, it's no "BAR". A friend of mine used an M60 during the Vietnam War, I believe that took the place of the "BAR" and is only 3 or 4 pounds heavier and in .308 caliber. A company called Desert Ordnance has a semi auto version of the M60 which can be yours for a measly $13,000. Here in Arizona we have the "Big Sandy" machine gun shoot which is a weekend event that is open to the public. Supposedly the largest event of it's kind in the world. It's about two hours from where I am in the Mojave Desert north of Wikieup. I've yet to attend, but I'm sure it would make for a nice quiet weekend out in the desert.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

The BAR-M60 relationship isn't clear to me. The M60 seems to be the platoon light machinegun, and I don't know if that was the BAR designation. If it was, what was the .30 air-cooled MG? One of my brothers ran one of those in Italy.

It's been great BAR-ing, but as you noticed, it ain't a handgun.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman:
I believe they phased out the BAR in favor of the M60? As it could also be shoulder fired or from the hip. Seems kind of awkward as the M60 was belt fed. My friend was a door gunner so that certainly wasn't an issue.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

desertman said:


> hillman:
> I believe they phased out the BAR in favor of the M60? As it could also be shoulder fired or from the hip. Seems kind of awkward as the M60 was belt fed. My friend was a door gunner so that certainly wasn't an issue.


Maybe somebody who knows the 'real story' will step in. I think the M60 was usually deployed via a 2 man team, same as the .30 light machine gun was in WW2. Did the BAR man have an ammo carrier too?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman:


> I think the M60 was usually deployed via a 2 man team


I believe you are correct, however I have seen video's where one person was firing the M60. I guess on a helicopter it doesn't make any difference, more than likely it had some sort of devise to help feed it. The BAR being magazine fed, I doubt would have an ammo carrier. I'm not sure but I believe on the belt fed M60 the 2nd person held the belt up for more efficient operation, but wasn't absolutely necessary? I really don't know and am just making a somewhat educated guess.

This from wikiepedia:


> The M60 is a belt-fed machine gun that fires the 7.62 mm NATO cartridge (.308 Winchester) commonly used in larger rifles. It is generally used as a crew-served weapon and operated by a team of two or three individuals. The team consists of the gunner, the assistant gunner (AG in military slang), and the ammunition bearer. The gun's weight and the amount of ammunition it can consume when fired make it difficult for a single soldier to carry and operate. The gunner carries the weapon and, depending on his strength and stamina, anywhere from 200 to 1000 rounds of ammunition. The assistant carries a spare barrel and extra ammunition, and reloads and spots targets for the gunner. The ammunition bearer carries additional ammunition and the tripod with associated traversing and elevation mechanism, if issued, and fetches more ammunition as needed during firing.
> 
> The M60 can be accurately fired at short ranges from the shoulder thanks to its design.* This was an initial requirement for the design and a hold-over in concept from the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle.* It may also be fired from the integral bipod, M122 tripod, and some other mounts.


So it seems that the weapon can be picked up and fired individually when all else fails. I guess it would be kind of heavy for a single person to carry the M60 in addition to a belt full of ammunition.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

I'm guessing you haven't read "Matterhorn". The M60 is in there, but it's the other stuff that'll curl your hair.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman:
No, I haven't read the book. I've studied and watched countless documentaries about America's involvement in foreign wars. I just missed (barely) going to Vietnam, it was winding down at the time I was eligible to be drafted. However my age was close enough to know plenty of people within my high school who were not so fortunate. Stories of what happened over there were commonplace. My cousin was over there but did not see any combat. I also knew the others and their families before and after the war and could see the profound affect it had on their lives. They were never the same after they returned, alcoholism, drug abuse, and divorce were commonplace. Although I never served, I tried to learn all I could about war and what these individuals had sacrificed in order to preserve our freedoms and way of life. It is important that we as Americans to understand this and should never forget it. On the same subject of war, my wife and I went to an air show where they had a B17 and a B29. We met a 90 year old man that was a ball turret gunner on a B17 and recipient of the Silver Star and Purple Heart. He was describing his experiences during 25 bombing missions over Germany and allowed my wife to record his accounts. When it was over we felt as though we had been there. That was without a doubt the highlight of the show and it was an honor to speak with this man and be in his presence. You can forget about movie stars, sports figures and some politicians etc., what they have accomplished pales in comparison to what these individuals have done. Just ordinary people doing extraordinary things. Incredible!


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