# 10mm auto



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm curious to the foundation of the 10mm auto cartridge. IIRC, the FBI had problems with it being too big for their female agents to carry, and overpenetrated like a shotgun slug, but it's still around. To my knowledge, a lot of agencies still issue the 10mm as their standard load. From a little reading on here and PMing with Mike Barham, it seems there are better options than 10mm. From what I could gather, it has similar recoil characterstics and terminal ballistics to a .45ACP, but is usually inferior. When used with low power loads, it's no more potent than a .40S&W. So, on a CCW standpoint, if you were looking for a smaller handgun, it would make more sense to get a .40S&W so you could have a smaller handgun versus a low power load 10mm. On the flip side, if you used full power loads, a .45ACP would still be a better choice. So why the 10mm?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I think you have just encapsulated why the 10mm is not popular.

A few 10mm enthusiasts will come out of the woodwork now to defend it. It works okay as a sort of combination defense/woods gun if you are an auto guy. But 10mm Lite does nothing that can't be done by a .40 in a smaller gun, and full power loads recoil rather vigorously for defense while being at best very marginally better than .45ACP +P. It's expensive to shoot, pretty much necessitating handloading, and comparatively hard to find in stores. 

The first 10mm pistol, the Bren X, was designed by Col. Cooper around the full-charge Norma loadings of the 10mm. I am sure the 10mm held a powerful appeal to someone who lived on a huge shooting range/ranch in the high desert. I am not sure what it does for the rest of us. Most outdoor guys like revolvers, and the power and flat trajectory of the 10mm are pointless for defense.

Being a Cooper fanboy, I naturally want a Bren X anyway. But it is not at all practical, and in reality, I will never own one.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Although I don't own one presently, I like the 10mm. Many folks considering the 10mm do a full circle and talk themselves out of it. But when many actually shoot a 10mm, it's love at first trigger pull. I consider it the best of both worlds (self-defense, hunting-woods gun). There is all kinds of info discussed about the 10mm on the internet, etc. If you've had any experience with shooting the 10mm, you can tell immediately who has shot the 10mm and who hasn't when reading the discussions. The handgun shooters I personally know that have shot the 10mm......love it! Just my $.02.


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## 220combat (Oct 26, 2007)

My shooting buddy has a S&W in 10MM and I love shooting it. I also know my .40 S&W can do everything the 10MM can so I won't go buy one. Also, the ammo can get quite expensive if you don't reload, and not available with any selection at many local stores.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I've shot several 10mms: Delta Elite, S&W 1006 and 1076, and the Glock 20. Didn't see anything particularly special about it. I'm not an outdoorsman, though, and I grant that it's perfectly adequate as a woods gun. Whether it is better than a magnum revolver in that role is open to question.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> I've shot several 10mms: Delta Elite, S&W 1006 and 1076, and the Glock 20. Didn't see anything particularly special about it. I'm not an outdoorsman, though, and I grant that it's perfectly adequate as a woods gun. Whether it is better than a magnum revolver in that role is open to question.


I don't know that it is any better than a magnum revolver. In fact, I would choose my S&W .44 mag Mountain Gun before I would a 10mm auto for being in the woods. But, if one wanted both self defense and a woods gun in one package with a lot of power, I would choose the 10mm semi-auto pistol. Carrying the S&W .44 mag. concealed would present several problems regarding weight, physical size, concealability, etc. And I have to disagree with you 220combat, a .40 S&W will not do everything a 10mm will, almost....but not. Check the ballistics. I agree it would not work with some people carrying and shooting a 10mm for self defense and even a woods gun but not all guns are for all people. If it fits your hand, and you want lots of power, and you like it, and you can carry it and can afford it.......go for it.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

The 10MM may not be necessary but I want a S&W 610 Revolver. They can handle either 10MM or .40 S&W and use Moon Clips.

It would make a good mate for my M&P 40. Perhaps it could serve as my BUG. :anim_lol:

Smith keeps listing them as a product but doesn't make them available. :smt076


:smt1099


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Charlie said:


> But, if one wanted both self defense and a woods gun in one package with a lot of power, I would choose the 10mm semi-auto pistol.


I agree, but that is part of the problem: so few people are in the situation you describe. Most people who have the money, and are enthusiastic enough about guns, to buy a 10mm tend to have multiple handguns. Thus, they have one or more guns dedication to defense, and another gun (or more) for outdoor use, if that's where their interests lie.

My colleague Bill is much more an outdoorsman than I am. He just bought a Redhawk .44 Mag as his outdoor gun, because he feels it's optimum for his desert-ranging purposes. Yet he also owns a variety of guns dedicated to defense against humans that he wears when roaming about Phoenix. Bill doesn't have what I'd consider a lot of guns, though I think he has more guns than I do, but nonetheless he has specific guns for specific purposes.

Col. Cooper was invested in the idea of all-purpose guns. Witness the "general purpose" Scout rifle. I think he liked the idea of the 10mm as a general purpose pistol, good from tromping the wilds and for defense. But nowadays, as society becomes more urbanized and there are comparatively fewer people who live in the open spaces, the idea of a "general purpose" pistol seems sort of irrelevant for the vast majority of shooters. Most anyone dedicated enough to carry a gun when woodswalking probably has more than one pistol.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

TOF said:


> The 10MM may not be necessary but I want a S&W 610 Revolver. They can handle either 10MM or .40 S&W and use Moon Clips.
> 
> It would make a good mate for my M&P 40. Perhaps it could serve as my BUG. :anim_lol:
> 
> Smith keeps listing them as a product but doesn't make them available. :smt076:smt1099


TOF, I would love to have the 610 for exactly the reason you mentioned, but alas they are few and far between. You could always go to GunBreakYou.....I mean GunBroker and buy one of those 610s with no lock. But have you noticed the prices!!! Jeeessshh! 
EDIT UPDATE: Check out this link, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100156696#PIC

And MIke, different strokes for different folks. I was not referring to the general public for "general purpose". I could care less what they do in the urbanized areas regarding their self-defense issues. It is entirely up to the individual. I have lived in some pretty tough "urban" cities: Houston, Dallas, Ft. Worth, etc. and moved to the country as far away as I could afford. I feel bad for them 'cause they can't enjoy the continually shrinking rural areas. :smt022


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Charlie said:


> And MIke, different strokes for different folks. I was not referring to the general public for "general purpose". I could care less what they do in the urbanized areas regarding their self-defense issues. It is entirely up to the individual.


Agreed. But I think it does explain the lack of 10mm popularity in the general shooting public, versus a comparatively few serious enthusiasts. As population expands, society inevitably moves toward urbanization, and hunting continues its inexorable decline, we will see fewer and fewer "outdoor" oriented gun products and more that are oriented toward defense and fighting.

I am not necessarily pleased by this trend, but it is what it is.


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## 220combat (Oct 26, 2007)

Charlie, I must reply by saying that the .40S&W will do everything that a 10MM will in any situation that I would need it. That being said, if I needed a woods gun, I would not choose a 10MM, I would use something larger in a revolver. For defence and CC, the .40S&W is a better choice for me, due to generally smaller frames.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

So it sounds like the 10mm would be an auto cartridge that steps into the ranks with revolvers in defense against wild animals, but has unnecessary power when it comes to stopping humans. Cool.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

As a former boss/politician I used to work for would say, "I can't disagree with that.", regarding the last two posts. :anim_lol:


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I see the 10mm as the "Sport-Truck" of the handgun world... It ain't a sports car, and it ain't a truck... LOL If you need a truck, buy a 44Mag. If you need a sports car, buy a 40.

If you want to drive in Cadillac style... buy a 45.

ha ha...

JW


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

JeffWard said:


> If you want to drive in Cadillac style... buy a 45.


What about a Bimmer? Or would that be a .50AE? Lol.


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## 220combat (Oct 26, 2007)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> What about a Bimmer? Or would that be a .50AE? Lol.


I think that would be a MAC 10 here in CT


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

220combat said:


> I think that would be a MAC 10 here in CT


:anim_lol: Well I guess I gotta get me one of those.


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## Clyde (Jul 13, 2006)

For me the 10MM is like the 38Super

Tends to be a Reloaders gun....

Load Light to Heavy :smt023



Besides Everyone should have one 10mm :smt1099


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Clyde said:


> Besides Everyone should have one 10mm :smt1099


I have two 10mms in my Craftsman tool kit.


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## Clyde (Jul 13, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I have two 10mms in my Craftsman tool kit.


LOL - One day you will be ready for the Next Level (Degree / Belt)

:smt033


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Clyde said:


> LOL - One day you will be ready for the Next Level (Degree / Belt)
> 
> :smt033


Yes, I will get a 10mm with a 1/2" drive. Of course that would be pointless, but whatever. :mrgreen:


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## Spartan (Jan 1, 2007)

*Awaits The Nuge to find this thread.*


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## Spartan (Jan 1, 2007)

JeffWard said:


> I see the 10mm as the "Sport-Truck" of the handgun world... It ain't a sports car, and it ain't a truck... LOL If you need a truck, buy a 44Mag. If you need a sports car, buy a 40.
> 
> If you want to drive in Cadillac style... buy a 45.
> 
> ...


I think I will just skip to the Ferrari and buy an AIM9 Sidewinder :smt082


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Spartan said:


> I think I will just skip to the Ferrari and buy an AIM9 Sidewinder :smt082


Wouldn't that be a Hellfire? Or would that equal up to a Lambo?


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