# Are you ready for the BANG!?



## SIGCrazie (May 9, 2007)

I was at the range the other day and it dawned on me that I always have ear plugs or muffs when shooting. In a real life gun fight or an HD situation, I'm sure I won't have time to reach for my ear protection. I tried shooting without the gear and the echo at the range was really loud, not to mention getting yelled at by the range master. I've even tried this at the outdoor range, but I'd like to see how loud it is in my house. How do you guys prepare for the BANG of a real shoot out?


----------



## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

When you're really amped up (adrenaline), you aren't going to notice the "bang" at the time, for the most part. It'll still do damage to your hearing of course, but that'll probably be the last thing on your mind.

Basically, where a sound may be debilitating or distracting when you're not amped up, it'll probably just sound like a pop when you're turned up to Eleventeen!

For instance, the incident I was involved in years ago where I had to draw my pistol... I didn't have to fire, thank God, but there are times when I still dream about that incident and I can remember very specific details. What the BG was wearing, smells, details. The funny thing is, most of the details I recall were only the things in front of me. Like I had tunnel vision. I saw/remember very little of what was going on to the sides of me. Seriously, it was if I could _smell_ they guy as well as see the stubble on his chin. In my case, I feel that my body was totally focused on the threat, everything else was pushed aside. Hopefully, if I ever have to draw my weapon again, I'll have a broader scope of recall. (Not that I ever want to have to draw it again, but if I do, I hope I don't get so tunnel focused.


----------



## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

zhur- 

You experienced a form of tachypsychia. 

Pretty common during a critical incident. Actually automatic and, in some cases time slows etc. It's a defense mechanism and can be used to your advantge in a single-threat incident.


----------



## k4swb (Jul 11, 2009)

*No you don't*



SIGCrazie said:


> but I'd like to see how loud it is in my house. How do you guys prepare for the BANG of a real shoot out?


Trust me on this. A .357 mag outdoors is LOUD. Confined to a 12'X12' bedroom, it is painful.
I'm not telling.


----------



## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

SIGCrazie said:


> How do you guys prepare for the BANG of a real shoot out?


I don't.

I train to drop the threat/s a soon as humanly possible. If I'm pointing a firearm at someone and commited to firing my ears are along for the ride.

After that threat/s has been 'eliminated' I scan with my eyes for the next or train my firearm on the next threat that was pre-assessed.

It is wise, however, to cover your 6. During a firefight you may not always be able to hear someone sneaking up behind you. Checking/keeping your 6 safe is part of the total engagement package.

Threats come from all angles. Use all your senses and training.

And please don't do any of this:



> I tried shooting without the gear and the echo at the range was really loud, not to mention getting yelled at by the range master. I've even tried this at the outdoor range, *but I'd like to see how loud it is in my house*.


----------



## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

I expect my gun to go bang if I pull the trigger so in that sense I am ready for it but like *Zhur* mentioned, that'll probably be the last thing on my mind.


----------



## dosborn (Apr 17, 2009)

I noticed this deer hunting. You don't notice it in the heat of the moment.

And shooting in the house, it's ileagal where I live. I can not describe how loud it is. It's so loud it's scary.

Just to test it, light a package of firecrackers and throw them in your kitchen sink.:smt073


----------



## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

I more ready to hear the *whump* the bullet makes hitting someting solid and dense. 

That's a neat sound. :mrgreen:


----------



## SIGCrazie (May 9, 2007)

Don't get me wrong...I would NEVER fire my gun "to see how it sounds in my house". I'm a responsible gun ownwer. I meant to say that I wonder how loud it would be if fired in my home.


----------



## dosborn (Apr 17, 2009)

Well, it's loud enough to make me say the F word with the uuuuu part dragged out.


----------



## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

It'll be "standing behind a 747 powering up for take off" loud.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Please make sure to have about $6,000.00 saved up, ahead of time.
That's how much a decent set of hearing aids costs.
How do I know? Look into my ear canals, and see.

All it took was *one shot* fired from a .45, outdoors, without any ear protection at all.


----------



## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

This thread makes me think of the movies where there are shootouts with people firing from their cars and carrying on conversations between shots. :smt033

BTW, I have no plan to prepare for the loud boom in my house. It is what it is. If I blow out an ear drum or go deaf in the course of saving my wife or kids, it's a good trade in my book.


----------



## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

I am one of the dummies that didn't think about or use ear protection for many years. Fortunately I didn't have to spent the $6,000 Steve did.

I remember a 7MM magnum purchased for an Alaska trip in the 60's. If I fired 10 rounds of 7MM my head would require a double dose of aspirin and a night to recover. It also kicked like hell.

I shot Deer and Elk with it and didn't feel or hear it go off. All I remembered 5 minutes later was the animal hit the ground immediately after pulling the trigger.

My expectation is that the adrenalin and your systems automatic response to danger will cloud everything out if encountering a dangerous event.

I know it will not stop me from pulling the trigger.


----------



## SaltyDog (Jan 1, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> How do I know? Look into my ear canals, and see.












I couldn't resist.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Hey, *Salty*...
The picture is _almost_ correct, except that when you shine a light through my ears, you see a naked lady projected on the wall.


----------



## fiasconva (Jun 14, 2009)

Evan Marshal, of stoppingpower.net, a retired Detroit cop, says in a SHTF situation you never notice the sound or the flash. Not ever being in a situation like that, I'll take his word for it.


----------



## dovehunter (Dec 18, 2007)

I love dove hunting (can't you tell). If the field is hot, I go through a box and a half of shot shells (25-36), depending on how I'm shooting that day, maybe more. I don't feel the kick nor bothered by the sound that a 12ga makes. Same thing with deer hunting, while on the practice range, I feel and hear my 30.06 go KABOOM, but when that big buck shows up, not a single thing.


----------



## SaltyDog (Jan 1, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hey, *Salty*...
> The picture is _almost_ correct, except that when you shine a light through my ears, you see a naked lady projected on the wall.


:anim_lol:


----------



## spinout (Jul 20, 2009)

dovehunter said:


> I love dove hunting (can't you tell). If the field is hot, I go through a box and a half of shot shells (25-36), depending on how I'm shooting that day, maybe more. I don't feel the kick nor bothered by the sound that a 12ga makes. Same thing with deer hunting, while on the practice range, I feel and hear my 30.06 go KABOOM, but when that big buck shows up, not a single thing.


what he said w/ one exception. while turkey hunting w/ 3 1/2" shells, i'll still think about what that recoil is going to feel like if i pull the trigger...even if i'm looking at a tom in full strut 20 yards in front of me, it's still on my mind. i'll still pull the trigger though...then i'll say "aw f&@%, that didn't feel good". but it's worth it.


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

SIGCrazie said:


> I was at the range the other day and it dawned on me that I always have ear plugs or muffs when shooting. In a real life gun fight or an HD situation, I'm sure I won't have time to reach for my ear protection. I tried shooting without the gear and the echo at the range was really loud, not to mention getting yelled at by the range master. I've even tried this at the outdoor range, but I'd like to see how loud it is in my house. How do you guys prepare for the BANG of a real shoot out?


No preparation is required; as said above, you'll probably do just fine, and if you don't it won't be because of the noise.

Being a military weapons range safety NCO for the better part of 15 years, I was exposed to hazardous noise in the form of gunfire on a regular basis. Starting in the (early?) 80s, all the folks in my field were regularly tested for hearing loss, so I had an initial/baseline and annual followup audiometric tests that documented my hearing acuity.

As an active hunter, I never used hearing protection during bird, small game, or deer hunts; only while calling fur animals or varminting did I wear ear plugs or muffs. Plinking outdoors with .22 rifles in open areas also didn't merit any protection within my group of fellow shooters; only when the handguns or larger rifles came out did we "plug up." In retrospect, this was stupid, but back in those days the hazard just wasn't communicated in a way that young males cared about; however, the macho man/ego threat was always front-and-center.

After a few incidents where shooters in training fired rifles AFTER the cease-fire command (and after most of us had removed our ear protection), in semi-enclosed concrete ranges, several of us were put on quarterly audiograms. During those years, you could SEE the hearing loss on the charts, especially after hunting season; being a left-handed shotgunner, my right ear is closest to the muzzle, and in the late fall tests I always had problems in that right ear. Sometimes it was just the ringing sound in my head masking the sound I was supposed to hear during the test; after the ringing subsided, my hearing temporarily "improved". However, the long-term charts were unmistakable -- peaks and valleys aside, the trend was always downward.

I can tell you that I have also been unlucky enough to hear (unprotected) a short-barreled .22 handgun in a living room, a 9mm in an apartment dining room, a 12-gauge in a poured-concrete armory room, and a .30-06 a few tables away in a gunshow exhibit hall; and while the sharpness of the noise always surprised me, none of them came close to causing me enough pain to prevent proper mind/body functioning in the next few moments. It gets really quiet though, even if there are a lot of people in the room, right after something like that happens...

Nowadays, I often don't hear the small birds singing; my wife comments on them, and I nod, but sometimes I simply don't know what she's talking about. If I try to slip the car keys in my coat pocket and miss, dropping multiple keys on the concrete, I might not hear them hit; where a drop on the wood deck at home with its lower-pitched "thump" will always register.

Folks, PLEASE, always wear the plugs/muffs, or even both, if the gun is big/bad enough. Once it's gone, you don't get your hearing back, and the worst part is, the nature of gradual hearing loss is such that many people simply never know what they are missing. Every day. For the rest of their lives.

(DJ climbs down off of his soapbox, but doesn't hear the creak it makes when he does so)

.


----------



## falchunt (May 8, 2009)

I, for one, am just going to sleep with my full muffs on from here out. That way if someone _does_ break in, and a shot has to be fired, my ears are safe....:anim_lol:

On a serious note though, I am pretty young still and already have damaged hearing. My left ear in particular. You should ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS wear hearing protection when you can. I try to wear something comparable to the Walker's game ear while I am hunting, and muffs or plugs when I am shooting targets. The damage that I do have is actually from a 22. Its a long story, but I was 13 years old, and couldn't understand why the cartriges were only about a quarter full of powder. I thought to myself, "well those cheap sob's don't even fill the shell up..." . I am fortunate that hearing damage is all that I received.


----------



## The Goat (Jul 23, 2009)

damn I never thought of this until this thread. I know its going to be loud, the ringing will last for hours. :?


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...On the positive side, my hearing aids do make the ringing in my ears much, much clearer.
(That's a joke, son.)


----------



## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

*huh?*



Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...On the positive side, my hearing aids do make the ringing in my ears much, much clearer.
> (That's a joke, son.)


I got tinitus pretty bad too.... my sis is an audiologist. Says aint diddly we can do about it.

Maybe I'll git me a discount on hearin' aid's when it all goes *blank* ......tumbleweed

I should prolly be reeeally nice to her this xmas. :mrgreen:


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Clanger*;

Tinnitis, huh-well, now I know how you got your site name!
(BANG! Clang! Ringy-dingy-dingy-ding-ding-ding...whishhhhhh.)

But seriously, folks...
I find that my hearing aids actually _reduce_ my tinnitis!
Since I now hear real background noise, much of the time the background noise swamps the tinnitis.


----------



## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Clanger*;
> 
> Tinnitis, huh-well, now I know how you got your site name!
> (BANG! Clang! Ringy-dingy-dingy-ding-ding-ding...whishhhhhh.)
> ...


Good one! :smt023

It kinda more or less came from the fact I slammed into the same metal lamp post on my sting-ray, twice in two weeks, in this park we used to chase eash other around in as kids. ...*CLANG!*
And- I was good at horseshoes. :smt033

Shootin' aint helped either.


----------



## SIGCrazie (May 9, 2007)

The Goat said:


> damn I never thought of this until this thread. I know its going to be loud, the ringing will last for hours. :?


Sorry, guys, it's something that has been on my mind. I've tried (without protection) a 12GA. shotgun, 12GA. Magnum shotgun, .380, 9mm, .38 special, .357, .357 magnum, .45 ACP, Mosin Nagant, and a .308 rifle. I tried it once with each different caliber in a course of a year. I can't imagine the loudness of the BANG in my HD situation. How about the flash? I'm sure it will cause some flash blindness in the dark. Thanks for all the info on this subject.


----------



## ka-chow (Aug 6, 2009)

My bro-in-law tried to commit suicide 4 years ago.

He had a .38 revolver; pulled the trigger under his chin pointing toward his brain. He lived, although he blew out his left eyeball and the bullet traveled to his forehead and lodged there. 

I recently asked him if he remembers the loud sound of the BANG. He says no and that his hearing is fine-no ringing, no loss of hearing...

Glad he's alive...he's not the same though...brain damage. 

Strange that the BANG didn;t leave him impaired.


----------



## spongebobmac (Sep 1, 2009)

im no stranger to loud noises, im in the car audio industry and ive sat in vehicles that can produce 170db with no hearing protection and didnt really have a problem and witnessed 180db, and i must say that bass is nothing compared to a 45 or 357, obviously different sine waves and such , but ill say like other when the adrenaline is present you wont know anything but stay alive,kick some names and take some ass, if ya know what i mean ...lol:numbchuck:


----------



## The Reaper (Sep 21, 2009)

ka-chow said:


> My bro-in-law tried to commit suicide 4 years ago.
> 
> He had a .38 revolver; pulled the trigger under his chin pointing toward his brain. He lived, although he blew out his left eyeball and the bullet traveled to his forehead and lodged there.
> 
> ...


Man thats crazy!!! My best friends bro Shot himself in the head with a 9mm a month ago and killed himself. Left a wife (who we think caused it) and 2 kids behind. Sad Sad phone call to get when you are at work.

On topic. I have fired pistols and rifles a lot when I was younger with my dad. I just recently Bought a Beretta PX4 in .40 for home defense and some range time. I have been wondering the same thing as the OP. I just can't imagine how loud it will be when the situation comes.

I mean I know for the most part the Adrenaline will take over but still......it will be VERY loud.


----------



## SIGness (Oct 14, 2009)

I pulled an idiot move one very bad day at the range. RO called the line hot, there weren't many people there. But my muffs were riding just behind my ears, exposing my ear canal. Mind you the range is outdoors, but is covered. I pulled off the first shot, and I've got to tell you. It's probably one of the more painful experiences I have had momentarily. But the ring continued thoughout the day. Always keep your head out of your rear, I consider myself a very safe shooter and aware of my surroundings. 

Anyways the basis of my little saga is... I could only imagine the pain in the aftermath. I did read on another forums where a guy fired his weapon in a barn and his ear immediately started to bleed. Result in some if not all his hearing iirc.


----------



## rfawcs (Feb 11, 2006)

All very good reasons why this is my primary home defense pistol


----------



## RightTurnClyde (Oct 24, 2007)

I can't find the reference right now, but I remember reading somewhere that there have been some scientific studies regarding hearing loss from gun shots fired in actual self-defense situations. There were some cases where the the shooter sustained no discernable hearing damage. The theory was that the intense surge of adrenaline you experience during a scary life and death situation somehow works to protect your ears from damage. I hope I never have to find out for myself.


----------



## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Short of high power rifles and magnum hand guns I can deal with range fire without protection BUT I always wear them. You are nuts not to. If you ever have to use your pistol at home in self defense I don't think you are gonna notice it. After you've changed your shorts and calmed your nerves a bit you might think on it but I doubt it.


----------



## DB9 (Oct 23, 2009)

First time I shot a 1911 without ear protection outdoors. All it took was a couple shots, and I was looking for those earplugs.


----------



## PureWon009 (Oct 23, 2009)

...


----------



## The Reaper (Sep 21, 2009)

Damn thats a crazy story bro.....Glad you're alive!

I hope I never have to experience anything like this in my lifetime.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

gmaske said:


> Short of high power rifles and magnum hand guns I can deal with range fire without protection...


I'm glad that you wear hearing protection anyway. Here's why:

Impulse-noise damage to your hearing happens suddenly and without warning. It is the result of a cumulative effect, but one that will affect you at a completely unpredictable moment.
You can tolerate lots of shooting noise, as you have observed in your post, but you need to know that this is true only until your hearing mechanisms reach their inherent level of tolerance.
At that moment, you will suddenly find that you have suffered irreversible hearing damage and loss.

How do I know?
I forgot my hearing protectors one day. Instead of borrowing someone else's, I decided to "tough it out." After all, we were only doing a little sighting-in. And it was only with pistols. I had shot without protection before, and it wasn't all that bad.
I fired my fourth shot, and, all of a sudden, everything went quiet. No birds. No conversation. Other people's shots were muffled and seemed far, far away.
My hearing never came back completely. I've lost almost all of my high-frequency, and a lot of my mid-frequency hearing. I can't enjoy music, or conversation in crowded environments.
Hearing aids help, but not much.

And all it took was that one, fourth shot.

*Always wear hearing protection*, even if you "don't have to."


----------



## Atroxus (Nov 7, 2008)

Todd said:


> This thread makes me think of the movies where there are shootouts with people firing from their cars and carrying on conversations between shots. :smt033
> 
> BTW, I have no plan to prepare for the loud boom in my house. It is what it is. If I blow out an ear drum or go deaf in the course of saving my wife or kids, it's a good trade in my book.


I don't worry too much about *my* hearing should I need to defend my family, I would sacrifice it gladly in their defense. I have a 3 month old son though that I have been thinking about a lot lately. Mainly I have been concerned about how to ensure that if I do have to fire in my house, that I am not sending bullets through the baby's room. But lately(before I saw this thread oddly enough) I have also been trying to figure out ways to minimize the risk to his hearing should I have to fire in the house. I have considered telling my wife if anything happens where I may have to fire on an intruder to hide in the closet with the baby and cover his ears, since I am not sure how much interior doors will reduce the noise of a gunshot. I am guessing not by much though.


----------



## BearValley (May 25, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I'm glad that you wear hearing protection anyway. Here's why:
> 
> Impulse-noise damage to your hearing happens suddenly and without warning. It is the result of a cumulative effect, but one that will affect you at a completely unpredictable moment.
> You can tolerate lots of shooting noise, as you have observed in your post, but you need to know that this is true only until your hearing mechanisms reach their inherent level of tolerance.
> ...


Wow, THAT really makes an impression. So sorry to hear that. No pun intended.


----------

