# Bersa vs Keltec



## hemmigremmie

I know the the p3at by keltec is a lot lighter, but whats the big difference other than that? Are the Bersa guns reliable? Thinkin on gettin one. HG


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## BeefyBeefo

hemmigremmie said:


> I know the the p3at by keltec is a lot lighter, but whats the big difference other than that? Are the Bersa guns reliable? Thinkin on gettin one. HG


For what purpose? Pocket carry? IWB carry?

Personally, if I was going to go with a .380 it would be for pocket carry. In that case, it makes much more sense to go smaller and lighter. The P3AT (or Ruger LCP) is lighter and smaller than the Bersa. So, why go with the bersa? If you're going to go IWB, than the Bersa isn't much easier to conceal than your Taurus either I wouldn't think. What would it's purpose be?

I will own a P3AT or Ruger LCP in the near future. I don't see any Bersas in my future. There are plenty of people that have no issues with the Bersas at all, but if I was going for a gun that would for the most part be a BUG or an ultra-concealable type gun (the only reasons to go with a .380 IMO), than it would be the smallest possible (Read - P3AT, LCP). Just my .02

-Jeff-


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## undrgrnd

pocket carry p3at or lcp. iwb either xd9sc or glock 26 I believe for ultra concealable. I've been hunting down the pocket carry/ultra concealed and these would be my choice IMO.


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## Mike Barham

I agree with the other guys. The only real purpose of a .380 these days is as a pocket gun, and the KelTec clearly wins for pocket carry versus the Bersa. The Bersa is as big as a lot of 9mms and .40s. Why carry a .380 as a belt gun when you can carry a more powerful gun?


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## BigMatt

Is the P3at the same as the Ruger LCP??


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## Mike Barham

BigMatt said:


> Is the P3at the same as the Ruger LCP??


The LCP is basically a copy of the P3AT.


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## niadhf

The bersa will probably be more comfortable, size wise, for a larg handed person, harder to pocket carry tho (as has been stated yes). Nicer (read less noticable recoil) to shoot, and my appeal more to someon concerned with that. You don't strike me as too concerned with felt recoil, but, if say your wife/gf/mom/sister might be looking for a smaller purse gun with less kick than a 9mm, a bersa (or walther, or feg) might be better suited. So again, for what purpose?


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## jb1023

I am looking at either a Bersa UC9 or M&P 9c as an iwb carry.


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## BigMatt

I wonder if the LCP or the p3at is more reliable?


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## niadhf

BigMatt said:


> I wonder if the LCP or the p3at is more reliable?


I have no track record with the LCP, but all the P3ATs i have shot have been 100%. They have been around longer to work out any unforseen issues also.


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## Mike Barham

Early P3ATs got something of a bad rap, but KelTec fixed the problems and they seem to run fine now. Mine runs 100%, as do those that belong to two of my colleagues.


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## BigMatt

I might go buy me a p3at this evening. What ammo do you guys use in 380 for a decent defense round?


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## Mike Barham

BigMatt said:


> I might go buy me a p3at this evening. What ammo do you guys use in 380 for a decent defense round?


Any premium JHP from a major manufacturer will be fine, as long as it works reliably. I use Gold Dot.


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## bhmorrill

For those of you that have shot both, is the felt recoil that much of a difference between the two? And especially any women, which is more comfurtable to you to shoot?


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## wildcatbrownhound

:smt1099The Bersa 380 Thunder is a double action, has a external hammer which you can cock, with a round in the chamber, or take the saftey off and fire. Each time fired the hammer is in the cocked position. The Kel-Tec is a single action, round in he chamber where the hammer has to travel the entire distance each time you fire which makes it less accurate IMO. Correct me if I am wrong. LOVE YALL :smt083 :smt1099


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## Todd

wildcatbrownhound said:


> :smt1099The Bersa 380 Thunder is a double action, has a external hammer which you can cock, with a round in the chamber, or take the saftey off and fire. Each time fired the hammer is in the cocked position. *The Kel-Tec is a single action, round in he chamber where the hammer has to travel the entire distance each time you fire which makes it less accurate IMO. Correct me if I am wrong.*


The Kel Tec is DAO (Double Action Only). It *cannot* be cocked manually, therefore making it impossible to be a single action gun.

Steve summed up the difference pretty well in a past thread:



Steve M1911A1 said:


> *
> SA* (Single Action) = the trigger feels the same, always. The trigger pull is short, and can be pretty light.
> *DAO* (Double-Action Only) = the trigger feels the same, always. The pull is usually long and relatively heavy. This is a useful option, for instance for a pocket-carry pistol.
> *DA/SA* ("Traditional" Double Action) = in a semi-auto, the trigger feels long and heavy for your first shot, and then switches to relatively short and light for all subsequent shots. Some people find that the transition from DA first shot to SA subsequent shots negatively affects speed and accuracy. But in a revolver, you have the choice of DA or SA for each shot, at your option, and pay no transition penalty.


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## Dynamik1

undrgrnd said:


> pocket carry p3at or lcp. iwb either xd9sc or glock 26 I believe for ultra concealable. I've been hunting down the pocket carry/ultra concealed and these would be my choice IMO.


After getting my CCW recently I have been thinking along the same lines. Although, I limited my choices to Kel-Tec P3-AT vs. Kel-Tec PF-9. I opted for the PF-9, had some issues out of the box and have sent it back for repair. Having had it for a few days my observation is that even on a large frame guy (6'-2"/285#) the PF-9 is NOT a pocket gun. However, in a deep IWB holster it should be infinitely more concealable than my Beretta 92FS!

Knowing that Kel-Tec will probably have my PF-9 for a month or more, and getting frustrated with carrying my Beretta, I may just go back and pick up a P3-AT as well. It just seems like the logical thing to do


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## wildcatbrownhound

Todd said:


> The Kel Tec is DAO (Double Action Only). It *cannot* be cocked manually, therefore making it impossible to be a single action gun.
> 
> Steve summed up the difference pretty well in a past thread:


:smt083Well,I got some of it backwards. Sorry! I think you knew what I was trying to say. I meant the harder it is to pull the trigger the less accurate. I have the Colt Cobra in my avatar and when you cock it, it is the most accurate gun i have as opposed to just pulling the trigger. (I hit a basketball 5 of the 6 at 50yards.) in the cocked position. Pretty good shooting for a old man HUH. Good info. THANKS.:smt083


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## BeefyBeefo

wildcatbrownhound said:


> :smt083Well,I got some of it backwards. Sorry! I think you knew what I was trying to say. I meant the harder it is to pull the trigger the less accurate. I have the Colt Cobra in my avatar and when you cock it, it is the most accurate gun i have as opposed to just pulling the trigger. (I hit a basketball 5 of the 6 at 50yards.) in the cocked position. Pretty good shooting for a old man HUH. Good info. THANKS.:smt083


Accuracy has more to do with the user than with the trigger action. Practice, practice, practice...:smt023

-Jeff-


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## nighthawk74

Dynamik1 said:


> After getting my CCW recently I have been thinking along the same lines. Although, I limited my choices to Kel-Tec P3-AT vs. Kel-Tec PF-9. I opted for the PF-9, had some issues out of the box and have sent it back for repair. Having had it for a few days my observation is that even on a large frame guy (6'-2"/285#) the PF-9 is NOT a pocket gun. However, in a deep IWB holster it should be infinitely more concealable than my Beretta 92FS!
> 
> Knowing that Kel-Tec will probably have my PF-9 for a month or more, and getting frustrated with carrying my Beretta, I may just go back and pick up a P3-AT as well. It just seems like the logical thing to do


What was wrong with your PF-9? I was thinking of getting one, actually. Either that or the PF-11. How does it handle with other 9 mm you have shot?


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## BeefyBeefo

nighthawk74 said:


> What was wrong with your PF-9? I was thinking of getting one, actually. Either that or the PF-11. How does it handle with other 9 mm you have shot?


http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=16542


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## Keef.44

I'm not real impressed with my P11 but I do like revolvers better anyway.

Besides a heavy trigger the takedown pin will come out during heavy shooting or basically when it gets hot. Of course this causes the slide/barrel/recoil spring to dump out on the ground, very embarrassing at the range.

Perhaps the pin is worn out?


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## niadhf

Contact Kel-tec service on that. I have used my p-11 for IDPA championship shoot (no i am not that good. i was almost last) 
with no problems. I would be wary of any pistol that fell apart shooting also. Course i would work on fixing it too.


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## Keef.44

niadhf said:


> Contact Kel-tec service on that. I have used my p-11 for IDPA championship shoot (no i am not that good. i was almost last)
> with no problems. I would be wary of any pistol that fell apart shooting also. Course i would work on fixing it too.


Well I've done that and awaiting a response.

Good luck with your IDPA shooting :smt023


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## nighthawk74

Hmm...

From much of the postings, it seems like, out of the box, one can expect that you might have to send in your new Kel-Tec gun back to the manufacturer........with the end result of getting a better gun because someone had to fix it. Has this indeed been the case for lots of KT gun owners out there? In this forum and in others, I've taken this to be the case. I haven't seen as many people saying the same thing about their Bersas, though. 

I don't know. It's nice that Kel Tec will take care of your gun after sending it in but isn't it better to have a gun that is ready to go in your pocket holster for your personal defence? I would rather buy a gun that is quality and user-ready. Like Ruger, Kel Tec sounds kind of hit-and-miss to me. I guess I'll stick to the Glock and Sig for my piece of mind.......and MAYbe, just maybe, a Bersa 380 for the price.


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## Todd

nighthawk74 said:


> Has this indeed been the case for lots of KT gun owners out there? In this forum and in others, I've taken this to be the case.


My P3AT has run fine from day one. It has shown that it occasionally does not like to eat cheapo WWB at the range (has the occasional jam), but it's always run flawlessly with the premium stuff; which is what it's loaded with when I carry it.


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## niadhf

nighthawk74 said:


> Hmm...
> 
> From much of the postings, it seems like, out of the box, one can expect that you might have to send in your new Kel-Tec gun back to the manufacturer........with the end result of getting a better gun because someone had to fix it. Has this indeed been the case for lots of KT gun owners out there? In this forum and in others, I've taken this to be the case. I haven't seen as many people saying the same thing about their Bersas, though.
> 
> I don't know. It's nice that Kel Tec will take care of your gun after sending it in but isn't it better to have a gun that is ready to go in your pocket holster for your personal defence? I would rather buy a gun that is quality and user-ready. Like Ruger, Kel Tec sounds kind of hit-and-miss to me. I guess I'll stick to the Glock and Sig for my piece of mind.......and MAYbe, just maybe, a Bersa 380 for the price.


3 keltecs. 1 FTE with a non shooter. over 800 rounds.

My LGS won't sell a Bersa. Why? Because if they have problems she has been unable to get good support. She does with the Kel-tecs.
Doesn't mean all Bersas are bad. Just her experience.


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## Keef.44

Sent my P11 to Kel-Tec today after receiving a response with a simple note and directions. 
We'll see how long it takes for repairs and what was done. :watching:


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## Keef.44

Keef.44 said:


> Sent my P11 to Kel-Tec today after receiving a response with a simple note and directions.
> We'll see how long it takes for repairs and what was done. :watching:


Came back today, pretty quick turnaround IMO. 
They polished the slide and test fired. Takedown pin looks new too but no elaboration of what was done.
It will be on its way to the range soon. No charge, just my cost of shipping. :smt023


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## niadhf

Yep. That sounds right for service. Let us know how it works.


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## woodsman

I have a P-3AT that was one of the "problem" guns made with faulty slides. The recoil rod hole was over bored, causing the slide to peen.

One day at the range after months of carrying, when I fired it the recoil spring went through the front of the slide and went flying down range.

As I live in FL, I took the gun to Kel-Tec and they basically swapped the serial number onto a new gun. That is it came back out with New Grip, New Barrel, New Slide, and New Trigger Assembly.

Went to the range and the thing was a Jam-O-Matic. After I took it home and did the Kel-Tec "Fluff & Buff", it ran fine (so far).

My problem with Kel-Tec is although their followers bash Ruger for their re-call on the LCP, Kel-Tec KNEW their slides were faulty and choose to just wait until the customer either brought it back or sent it it. I know they knew, because thats what the tech that worked on mine told me.

This is why I am here looking into the Bersa. I am considering selling my P-3at and my Hi-Point C-9 and getting a Bersa. I am looking at the 9-UC. 

I have a Glock -23 and it has always perfromed pefectly right out of the box. I hear that the Bersa does the same.


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## StngStr

If i were to choose between the two, it would be the keltec hands down.


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## woodsman

StngStr said:


> If i were to choose between the two, it would be the keltec hands down.


Why? What are the determining factors that makes the decision for you?


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## BeefyBeefo

woodsman said:


> I have a P-3AT that was one of the "problem" guns made with faulty slides. The recoil rod hole was over bored, causing the slide to peen.
> 
> One day at the range after months of carrying, when I fired it the recoil spring went through the front of the slide and went flying down range.
> 
> As I live in FL, I took the gun to Kel-Tec and they basically swapped the serial number onto a new gun. That is it came back out with New Grip, New Barrel, New Slide, and New Trigger Assembly.
> 
> Went to the range and the thing was a Jam-O-Matic. After I took it home and did the Kel-Tec "Fluff & Buff", it ran fine (so far).
> 
> My problem with Kel-Tec is although their followers bash Ruger for their re-call on the LCP, Kel-Tec KNEW their slides were faulty and choose to just wait until the customer either brought it back or sent it it. I know they knew, because thats what the tech that worked on mine told me.
> 
> This is why I am here looking into the Bersa. I am considering selling my P-3at and my Hi-Point C-9 and getting a Bersa. I am looking at the 9-UC.
> 
> I have a Glock -23 and it has always perfromed pefectly right out of the box. I hear that the Bersa does the same.


I think you should send that problem child of a Kel-Tec to me. Then, you'll never have to worry about it again. :watching:


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## tekhead1219

BeefyBeefo said:


> I think you should send that problem child of a Kel-Tec to me. Then, you'll never have to worry about it again. :watching:


If the shipping costs are to high to send to Colorado, ship it to me in southeast Texas. I'll fix it up for you and after several years of testing to be sure it's correct, I'll send it back to you. :anim_lol::watching:


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## Todd

BeefyBeefo said:


> I think you should send that problem child of a Kel-Tec to me. Then, you'll never have to worry about it again. :watching:





tekhead1219 said:


> If the shipping costs are to high to send to Colorado, ship it to me in southeast Texas. I'll fix it up for you and after several years of testing to be sure it's correct, I'll send it back to you. :anim_lol::watching:


Guys, don't you know how it works? All problem and unwanted guns are to be sent to *js *first. He then sends them to the mods if he doesn't want them or have the time to work on the gun.

Come to think of it though, I still haven't gotten a gun out of this "program". :smt017


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## woodsman

All of the above comments are typical of a Kel-Tecie. 

I asked the first poster why would he choose the Kel-Tec over the Bersa and what was the determining factors. I have as of yet seen none given. Its the same old "if you don't want it send it to me" Yada, Yada, Yada.

If that's the best you've got why even bother to post a reply.


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## Todd

woodsman said:


> I asked the first poster why would he choose the Kel-Tec over the Bersa and what was the determining factors. I have as of yet seen none given. Its the same old "if you don't want it send it to me" Yada, Yada, Yada.


So because the OP failed to respond to your question, you're bashing all the other responses? With the attitude you're displaying, I'd be surprised if he ever does respond.



woodsman said:


> If that's the best you've got why even bother to post a reply.


And if this, critiquing and insulting the content other people's posts, is the best _you've _got, my advice is it is _you_ who should not bother posting a reply.


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## BeefyBeefo

woodsman said:


> All of the above comments are typical of a Kel-Tecie.
> 
> I asked the first poster why would he choose the Kel-Tec over the Bersa and what was the determining factors. I have as of yet seen none given. Its the same old "if you don't want it send it to me" Yada, Yada, Yada.
> 
> If that's the best you've got why even bother to post a reply.


Considering I've actually been looking for one of these and would have considered purchasing it from you, that makes you something, but I'm not a name caller. :smt083 Someone woke up on the wrong side of the forum. Also, if you're that disappointed in a firearm, then why do you still own it?

Regarding why someone would choose the Kel-Tec over the Bersa:

The Kel-Tec is smaller, and is much easier to pocket carry than the Bersa. That is the whole purpose of these small .380 handguns, to be carried in a pocket (for most people). Some people like the price of the Kel-tec, and some also like the warranty. There isn't much out there that compares to the size of the P3AT.


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## IndyRob

I chose the Bersa because it's a little bigger, the Kel just didn't fit in my hand comfortably.

I don't regret the choice, my BT 380 is a good little shooter


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## Pistolero

*Bersa v. Kel-Tec*



hemmigremmie said:


> I know the the p3at by keltec is a lot lighter, but whats the big difference other than that? Are the Bersa guns reliable? Thinkin on gettin one. HG


Not to be a gun yuppie, because Alaskan's have a bad rap for being gun yuppies -it's just that Bersa tends toward the heavier, bulkier side. Bersas generally feel very comfortable but seem rather clunky when disassembled. I've always wondered at the quality of the product. I've owned the Kel-Tec and loved it. It didn't like Cor-Bon hollowpoints but if I fed it a hollowpoint with a more rounded end profile, it ate it up. The gun is more than controllable and is truly forgettable in a front pocket holster. I'd always be more likely to carry if I had a smaller option for those hard to conceal moments.


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## khegglie

I'd take a Bersa over any Walther like .380 because of the price, but all 3 sizes of Keltec from .32 - 9mmP are better every day pocket pistols due to weight/profile..


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## woodsman

Ok. I'll agree that the Kel-Tec is smaller than the Bersa, even the 380 CC. In fact thats why I chose it in the first place. It fits where no other can, period.

Now for those of you that have a Bersa 380 or 9UC, did you find that it was reliable right out of the box, or did you have to do any fluff & buff to make it run correctly.

My wife, while she can shoot the P3at, does not like the trigger pull. I'm looking at selling the Kel-Tec and getting a Bersa for her instead to carry in her purse. She and I also like the fact that it comes with an external safety. 

I carry my Glock 23 all day with no worries, but I would not want her to carry a 26 loose in her purse, simply because there is no external safety. 

Comments?


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## tekhead1219

woodsman said:


> Now for those of you that have a Bersa 380 or 9UC, did you find that it was reliable right out of the box, or did you have to do any fluff & buff to make it run correctly.


Nope, no changes, fluffing or buffing with the one I bought. Went straight from the shop display case, to my bag, to the house, gave it a bath (cleaned it), back to the range and started banging away. No hiccups at all.:smt023


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## IndyRob

woodsman said:


> Ok. I'll agree that the Kel-Tec is smaller than the Bersa, even the 380 CC. In fact thats why I chose it in the first place. It fits where no other can, period.
> 
> Now for those of you that have a Bersa 380 or 9UC, did you find that it was reliable right out of the box, or did you have to do any fluff & buff to make it run correctly.
> 
> My wife, while she can shoot the P3at, does not like the trigger pull. I'm looking at selling the Kel-Tec and getting a Bersa for her instead to carry in her purse. She and I also like the fact that it comes with an external safety.
> 
> I carry my Glock 23 all day with no worries, but I would not want her to carry a 26 loose in her purse, simply because there is no external safety.
> 
> Comments?


A thorough cleaning produced this @ 25 yards...


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## DevilsJohnson

I've had a few 380 pistols over the years and out of all of them I thought the Bersa worked best. I like the external hammer most. It was a reliable little gun but like most 380's they just are not much fun to shoot. Being most people want one as a pocket gun the small size makes about all of them a little hard on the hands. It just never seemed worth it to me and I have got rid of all of them. I'd rather have a compact 9mm if I wanted something smaller.

If the 380 is your thing though the Bersa model(s) are as good or better than any I've shot or owned.


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