# Road rage scenario (true one)



## bps3040 (Jan 6, 2008)

I posted this at another site. What would you have done in this situation? I gave him my thoughts...he did everything wrong, but curious to see what everyone thinks.




Another Road Rage that happened to one of my employees 

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Reading the road rage thread made me think about one of my employees. He had a nasty road rage incident. See what ya'll would have done. This is a true story from Tomball, Texas.


Day after Thankgiving, he is driving down FM 2920, coming up to Cyrpess Rosehill. This truck pulls out of a gas station and almost hits him. Bob flips off the guy, but keeps driving. The BG slows down and gets behind him. Keeps running up his butt and backing off. This goes on for a mile or so. Finally, "Bob" taps his breaks.....and the BG goes nutzoid. He pulls up on Bob's butt and shoots at him. Bob and his girlfriend only hear a shot and nick sees a gun in the mirror. He tells his girlfriend to climb in rear seat and lay on the floor. He takes off. For the next 15 minates the chases him down country roads around Tomball. Shooting a few times at them. Bob is trying to lose BG but cannot get away. Finally heads back to Tomball , to get around people. He sees the Wally world and tries to pull in the parking lot. While he his trying to turn car, BG shoots again...hitting Bob in left forearm. (it was nasty looking). Doc, etimated 100 pellets in his arm. Sure looked like it from ex ray.
BG kept going. They found the BG a few hours later driving drunk. Cops found empty 410 shells and gun in car. Put 2 + 2 together, arrest the idiot. BG idiot says he was trying to teach Bob a lesson,lol.

What would you have done in his situation?


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*not good*

This aint good.

The right thing he did. Try and get away. He did all he could do.

Now your question: What would I do.
The same. Get away and get to a OPEN shopping center.


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

neophyte said:


> This aint good.
> 
> The right thing he did. Try and get away. He did all he could do.
> 
> ...


The only problem with going to an area with more people is, now more people are in danger of being shot.

I'm not sure what I would do... I would have my cell phone and would place a call to 911. Worse case... if I couldn't lose him and as a last resort... I'd try to get ahead of the BG so I could stop, get out... take cover. I always CCW, so I'm not going to be defenseless. It would still suck though, that's for sure.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

1) Bob should have kept his middle finger down. Whole thing would have probably never happened if he showed restraint. I follow the motto of, "If you have your gun, leave your middle finger at home." Since I always have my gun, I never have my middle finger.

2) Keep driving and call 911. A cell phone is as good as a gun in many scenarios.

I was 20 when I learned that there are a lot of crazy people out there and you never know how they react, so it's best to keep your mouth shut and your hands from making gestures. My 19 year old cousin mouthed off to some skinhead types out in Tuscon. My cousin and his friends got in his car, the skinheads followed. They tried to lose them, but at a stop light, one of the skinheads pulled a gun and fired into the car. Killed my cousin instantly with a shot to the back of the head. They caught the guys and they said almost the same crap, they didn't mean for anyone to get hurt. :smt011


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Todd said:


> 1) Bob should have kept his middle finger down. Whole thing would have probably never happened if he showed restraint. I follow the motto of, "If you have your gun, leave your middle finger at home." Since I always have my gun, I never have my middle finger.
> 
> 2) Keep driving and call 911. A cell phone is as good as a gun in many scenarios.
> 
> I was 20 when I learned that there are a lot of crazy people out there and you never know how they react, so it's best to keep your mouth shut and your hands from making gestures. My 19 year old cousin mouthed off to some skinhead types out in Tuscon. My cousin and his friends got in his car, the skinheads followed. They tried to lose them, but at a stop light, one of the skinheads pulled a gun and fired into the car. Killed my cousin instantly with a shot to the back of the head. They caught the guys and they said almost the same crap, they didn't mean for anyone to get hurt. :smt011


I agree with Todd on this one. I rarely give the California Howdy and this is one reason why. There are crazies out there.

I agree that if possible lose them while your talking to the police on a cell phone. Have the CCW gun ready for what ever may happen.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I've always thought about this, and especially in how it applied to self-defense. If I were the only one in the car, there's no way I'd try to return fire. Staying focused on driving 120mph+ is more important than trying to shoot back. I'd call 911 and do my best to lose him. This situation would be one where being able to go over 150mph would help.


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## dallaswood43 (Jan 13, 2008)

*just don't react to bad driving*

you never know who you're flipping off or upsetting. a few stories in this reguard. friend on the way to work gets cut off and flips off said driver. driver follows him 10 miles all the way to work then starts a fight with my friend in his businesses parking lot. my friend won the fight and actually left the guy with 17 stiches in his face but he had to wrestle a tire iron away from the guy in the process so needless to say one successful swing from bg with that would have changed the outcome dramatically.

another friend has newborn daughter in car and nearly gets ran into by a careless driver in a mc donalds parking lot. he, being protective of newborn is understandably upset and gets out and yells. next thing he knows he wakes up in hospital with his jaw wired shut.

it is just not worth it to aggravate a situation in an uncontrolled environment. if you do draw and kill or severely injure someone, and you provoked the situation at all, the law will not be on your side i'm certain.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I think the best thing to do if followed is call the police, find somewhere to pull over and possibly take cover, stay in your car with your firearm cocked and locked, and see if the person following you gets out of their vehicle and comes after you. If they're armed with anything that could be viewed as a deadly weapon and you're justified by your state's laws on self-defense, plug 'em. I'm not sure how the rest of your guys' states view the Castle Doctrine, but in KY it goes the same for an occupied vehicle. If you stay in your car with your windows up and doors locked and the BG tries to "break into" your car while you're in it, the use of deadly physical force is authorized, whether or not they've actually succeeded in breaking in. While the rest of you may not agree with my thoughts and feelings on the issue, if someone comes after me and tries to break into my car to assault me, they're getting shot through the window. And odds are they won't see it coming being that I have 5% tint on all the windows other than the windshield. This has never happened to me, and I hope it never does [knock on wood]. But if it does, if I'm justified in using deadly physical force to protect myself, I will do so.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

*Todd's* advice is sound as usual, and I agree 100%.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Todd said:


> 1) Bob should have kept his middle finger down. Whole thing would have probably never happened if he showed restraint. I follow the motto of, "If you have your gun, leave your middle finger at home." Since I always have my gun, I never have my middle finger.
> 
> 2) Keep driving and call 911. A cell phone is as good as a gun in many scenarios.


Agreed good advice, although I'd also add:

3) If no cell phone, drive to police/sheriff's station honking horn loudly.


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## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

submoa said:


> Agreed good advice, although I'd also add:
> 
> 3) If no cell phone, drive to police/sheriff's station *honking horn loudly*.


You can change the volume of your horn? cool!:smt082 :anim_lol:
I think I would follow Todd's advice as well. Do not attempt to return fire while driving like in the movies, you would probably end up hurting an innocent bystander and/or crashing.


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## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

Here's a video that a couple of losers made, experiencing 'road rage' sometimes trying to drive away just doesn't work. 



I think he should have called the cops IMHO


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## SemoShooter (Jul 5, 2007)

Carrying a gun has really changed my attitude when driving. I don't go off on bad or stupid drivers. I just ignore them. I did have one guy really screw with me a few months ago. There was road construction and traffic was backed up and squeezing down to one lane. I changed lanes (traffic was at a standstill) and the guy got mad because he didn't want to let anyone in the lane. After we got through the blockage he was shaking his fist and tailgating me and then pulled along side and swerved toward me. What a dip wad. He could have got himself killed. In the past I probably would have run him off the road. I maintain my cool much better when I'm armed because I know if I add fuel to the fire I might help escalate the situation to a shooting incident. 

Be responsible. Keep your anger checked.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

nukehayes said:


> You can change the volume of your horn? cool!:smt082 :anim_lol:


Maybe not this loud:


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## sigshooter (Jan 12, 2008)

last thing i would do is try to lose him out in the country with no witnesses around.

i wouldve done like others said and go to the police station or call 911.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

As far as legal issues go, yelling at someone though the window or flipping them off doesn't justify any kind of physical force on their part. So if you did lose your cool and they followed you, then came after you when you finally stopped, you would be justified in protecting yourself with physical force. Since words and hand gestures aren't classified as an immediate threat to life or limb, in a legal sense you wouldn't be viewed as the initial aggressor. However, still good to keep your cool.

I can't personally bash someone for throwing up a middle finger as I do it a lot. In Lexington the traffic is ridiculous as the city keeps growing IN instead of growing out, and there are plenty of idiot drivers that continually block intersections if the traffic stops and the light changes. It's easy to tell yourself to stay cool and not get flustered, but sometimes you just can't help it when it happens every day, simply because most drivers don't take driving and traffic laws seriously. They think they're special and the rules somehow don't apply to them, and it gets extremely frustrating at times. I've even been flipped off by drivers who are blocking intersections because I usually have to get pretty close to their car to get past, which is silly. Most drivers don't use turn signals, don't stop for red lights, and don't check their blind spots before swerving into the adjacent lane.


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## akr (Mar 8, 2007)

This day and time, do your very best to not react in an angry way, even though that is almost impossible. It may very well save your life and that of your passenger. There are way too many people out there that are on the verge of doing anything stupid. Keep the finger down if you can, don't make eye contact if you can help it and don't move your lips. I know that sounds wimpy, but just try to blow it off. You will get over it in a day or two. Just think of it as part of life anymore. The consequences of reacting otherwise may be even more upsetting.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I can't personally bash someone for throwing up a middle finger as I do it a lot.


You need to curb that _before_ you start carrying a gun. You will be held to a higher standard of care because you are armed.

What the law says and the misery a DA/plaintiff's attorney can put you through are two different things. Just ask the guys on the Duke lacrosse team.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

Personally, instead of heading for a shopping center where more people are likely to get shot, I probably would have driven for some sort of police station or substation. Either he'd quit for fear of certain arrest or I'm bringing the BG right to the cops for them. Whatever the cops managed to do, odds are the BG would probably stop shooting. Or we'd hope so.


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## dallaswood43 (Jan 13, 2008)

the above post is so true that says it may sound wimpy but its the better road to take. if you have a gun on you then it just wouldn't be acceptable at all to flip the bird or look at someone and mouth off. even if you think you are the toughest thing it still isn't wise. its like my friend i talked about in the post up above. he was and is as tough as nails but if that person had hit him in the head with the tire iron, he would have had a cracked skull potentially or who knows what. people driving terribly is a part of life. i still would have to say that if you initiated the situation you would be in a world of trouble. maybe in this case where the person was actually shooting at you, you would have a better defense. but if you flipped someone off and they were just coming at you to punch you or have a fist fight and you shot them... you would be screwed i'm sure.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

When we carry guns, we have to conduct ourselves with more maturity than an unarmed person, lest we escalate a situation with words or gestures. Maintaining what Mas Ayoob calls "the mantle of innocence" will go a long way toward preventing charges from being filed against us if we need to use our pistols in defense.

This means keeping the middle finger down in traffic, and walking away from insults hurled at us on the streets. It may take some effort to swallow our pride and ego...but in the long run, do we really care what bad drivers and street hoodlums think of us, anyway?


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Mike what book is that that you continue to cite? I'd like to get a copy of it and read...sure would be a lot more interesting than my sociology text.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm actually quoting from Mas in person. I'm a grad of his LFI-I course. Some of his older books contain some dated info - on guns and "Castle Doctrine" - but are still very worth reading. Try _In the Gravest Extreme_ and _The Truth About Self Protection_. _The Ayoob Files_ has some descriptions of actual gunfights and their court aftermaths, though Ayoob's account of FBI/Miami contains some factual errors. Another good one for this kind of thing is Mike Izumi's _In Self Defense_.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I'll look into that...probably some good stuff about tactics as well as morals in different situations.


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## glock27bill (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree with all who said keep your cool. 

I had an incident once where a guy in this old, beat up, weather beaten, baby blue land-boat Oldsmobile was riding right up my butt. I pulled over to the right lane and let him through.

At the next light, I heard what I thought was people arguing...I could hear it over my radio and rolled up windows.

I turned down my radio to see what was going on, and it was the guy in the Oldsmobile stopped in front of me, screaming, yelling, and pounding the dashboard with his fist...and he was ALONE!!! He was so violent that the car was rocking on its shocks.

Glad I didn't do anything stupid, all I care about is getting from point A to point B in one piece, even/especially it means giving berth to the crazies out there...and I live in Northern Virginia where cutting people off, running red lights, and weaving in and out of traffic must have been added to the driver's test since I last took it. It ain't worth getting my ego tied up in a knot over some jerk I don't even know.


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## khellandros66 (Oct 1, 2007)

Having a CCW we chose to act, and respect ona different level then others. Its hard to digest but when someone does something ignorant, you need to just let it go. It took me a while to prepare myself mentally to do this. I still call people morons etc in the car but not directed too them in their view.

We chose this cause others take for granted the simpler liberties in life. I can't tell you how many people I have heard say "oh guns are so terrible and people just want to shoot up the place" It bothers us to hear these things knowing, this person is ignorant to fact that everywhere they go, we law abiding citizens are willing protect them and the responsibility and burden of not being able to receive gratitude for fear of shock and alienation by these people (esp in the work force)

Cheers

Bobby


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## glock27bill (Dec 29, 2007)

Yup.

I point out the superior safety of locales with CCW laws, and that we all carry more as a detterent than out of a desire to ever get in a bad situation.

People are sometimes shocked that I carry, and I tell them that's the point--if they can't tell, then neither can bad guys, so they'll go practise their crap in a safer environment.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

> we law abiding citizens are willing protect them


Well, not necessarily all of us, unless you mean the supposed general protective effect claimed for CCW. But as I've mentioned in other threads, I'm not a cop or an action hero, and would be *very* circumspect about entering a fight to protect a stranger.



> I point out the superior safety of locales with CCW laws


I know that's sort of an article of faith among gun carriers. However, Phoenix (where I live) has very relaxed gun laws, yet is much more dangerous than NYC, somewhat more dangerous than LA, and approximately as dangerous as Chicago - all big cities with much tighter gun control laws. Phoenix also outstrips Philly and DC in some crimes. And there are a *lot* of CCW holders in and around Phoenix.

I checked the stats and the same is apparently true for Dallas, another city with relatively relaxed gun/CCW laws.

(My source is the 2006 FBI crime statistics.)


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> ...and would be *very* circumspect about entering a fight to protect a stranger.


Especially when you don't know the entire situation. The "bum" that was accosting the "nice man in a suit" that you just drew your gun on might just turn out to be an undercover cop busting a well dressed drug dealer.


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## polyguy (May 4, 2007)

I seriously hope Bob learned his lesson...could've been worse.
Man, I get cut-off, honked at, high-beam flashed, and even flipped off from time to time. But, I just ignore them & keep my opinions to myself, basically.


People, don't do anything that you may regret. Just let it go, report his/her wreck less driving to 911 and mosey on about your way...let THEM deal with that. Thats what they are paid for.


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## bigblock10 (Jan 2, 2008)

Me, I would of turned the Chip all the way up in the diesel and nailed it, not only going faster but the BG would not see a danm thing with the wall of black smoke coming out of my pipe.. lol 

for real tho if you wanted to you cold smoke out a 4 lane road with it 

DEREK


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## dallaswood43 (Jan 13, 2008)

i've thought, what if i were in a convenience store and someone came in and robbed the place. would i pull the gun and try to stop the crime. i think the answer has to be no. and if some people are having a fist fight do i pull the gun to stop the fight. unless life is in danger and someone is stomping someone already unconscious then no. i think even with a concealed permit a weapon should only be drawn as an absolute last resort when life is in danger. not money, not property, not a bloody nose. so i would have to agree with mike and say that most times i would not intervene for the sake of a stranger unless circumstances were dire. i've even told my wife that if i hear a burglar in the basement, i will get my gun and wait at the top of the stairs and if they come up stairs then i will deal with that but if they stay downstairs away from my family they can have the computer and tv and everything else. i'm not going to initiate the face to face. a lot of those comments aren't directly on topic i know.


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## blackie (Oct 15, 2007)

Would not be OK to shoot the bastard yourself after being shot in the arm???? just curious because i live right down the street from where this happened and if someone starts shooting at me for no good reason and i can not loose them, after being shot im my arm, i would shoot him back. am i wrong????? 
BTW i would have never led that crazy bastard into a wally world parking lot, thats a dumb move cause you already know hes shooting and now you just put not only your self but hundreds more in danger!!


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## camguy (Feb 8, 2008)

*Re: the YouTube video*

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't an armed robbery committed? I mean, while I secretly cheer the guy for taking the camera, was that not still a crime? Also, were they heading to their destination and got sick of the hillbillies harassment and pulled over, or did they lure them to a remote area for the final confrontation? If the latter, I have to think they'd be in deep doodoo if he had to shoot...premeditation and all. Yes, once the baseball bat came out the dynamic changed dramatically, but IMHO the guy was setting himself up for some major felony charges, and that's before he stole the camera.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

camguy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't an armed robbery committed? I mean, while I secretly cheer the guy for taking the camera, was that not still a crime? Also, were they heading to their destination and got sick of the hillbillies harassment and pulled over, or did they lure them to a remote area for the final confrontation? If the latter, I have to think they'd be in deep doodoo if he had to shoot...premeditation and all. Yes, once the baseball bat came out the dynamic changed dramatically, but IMHO the guy was setting himself up for some major felony charges, and that's before he stole the camera.


Both parties definitely acted incorrectly and possibly unlawfully. I say "possibly" since I am not a lawyer or a LEO. However, for some reason, my BS alarm is going off and I think the entire video is staged and fake.


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

bps3040 said:


> I posted this at another site. What would you have done in this situation? I gave him my thoughts...he did everything wrong, but curious to see what everyone thinks.
> 
> Another Road Rage that happened to one of my employees
> 
> ...


Lessons here....

Never flip, just call and report. Hitting brakes when needed, completely in my book totally acceptable.. Some numb-nuts need to taste some bumper once in a while for acting stupid, but I won't do it if anyone else is in the car.

But if someone did start shooting from a car on your 6, about all you can do is get somewhere where the shooting would cease as a matter of self-preservation (attempt a police-station maybe)... But key is, if you've got a cell, call 911 first.. Might be able to set the shooter up for a take-down while in the act by a patrol car close by... Possibly even ending with BG getting his just-upin's by an officer's Glock if he intercepts the guy while lobbing lead at you. Then the world is a better place.


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## khellandros66 (Oct 1, 2007)

Given the circumstances if he or she were close enouh and not wearing their seatbelt I would slam on my breaks so they rear end me. Laws of physics and lack of seatbelt on their part will do the rest....

If I fail in the above or I am unable to reach 911 or a station, IF I was wounded like the person was I would say rules of engagement stand, and I will return fire to the best of my ability from within the vehicle would put the pedal down get as much distance I could and pull off the road and give myself the time to draw, aim and fire back.

To answer the ealier post, I would draw in store robbery if I felt that they were definitely going to harm innocent people. And most certainly if my family or a friend is there and in direct danger.

Cheers

Bobby


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