# Muslims can't take it....



## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

Snopes says, this is true
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wichman.asp
Professor Wichman
E-mail Claim: A Michigan State professor sent an e-mail telling Muslim students to leave the country.

Status: True.

Hooray for Michigan State University (The Spartans) and Professor Wichman!

Well, what do we have here. Looks like a small case of some people being able to dish it out, but not take it. Let's start at the top. The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indrek Wichman.

Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association. The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were "hate speech." Enter Professor Wichman. In his e-mail, he said the following:

Dear Muslim Association:

As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest.

I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey!), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called "whores" in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris France.

This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many, many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile "protests."

If you do not like the values of the West -- see the 1st Amendment -- you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.

Cordially, I. S. Wichman
Professor of Mechanical Engineering

As you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn't like this too well. They're demanding that Wichman be reprimanded and mandatory diversity training for faculty and a seminar on hate and discrimination for freshman. Now the Michigan chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn't believe that the good professor had the right to express his opinion.

For its part, the university is standing its ground. They say the e-mail was private, and they don't intend to publicly condemn his remarks. That will probably change. Wichman says he never intended the e-mail to be made public, and wouldn't have used the same strong language if he'd known it was going to get out.

How's the left going to handle this one? If you're in favor of the freedom of speech, as in the case of Ward Churchill, will the same protections be demanded for Indrek Wichman? I doubt it.

Hey folks, send this to your friends, and ask them to do the same. Tell them to keep passing it around until the whole country gets it. We are in a war. This political correctness crap is getting old!


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

I agree that he had the 1st amendment behind him but that doesn't keep him from being a jackass. There are roughly 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world, get used to it, they aren't going away. Furthermore that same 1st amendment gives freedom of religion, not freedom to pick what flavor of christian you have to be. Both Islam and Christianity have blood on their hands. So I will stand up for anyone who wants to come to this country (legally) to have a better life. You may think we are at war with a religion but we arn't, we're at war with people. Go make some Islamic friends and you'll see this. :smt1099


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## Hal8000 (May 8, 2006)

He didn’t think it would ever be made public? That's pure nonsense! He's a Professor for crying out loud!
Even though I might have choose different words, I understand his frustration with everyone tip toeing around this volatile subject.
Bully for the Professor! I hope he remains unpunished! Although he's got to realize that he's a target now and they will kill him if they get a chance!


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

The difference is that Christianity hasn't had "blood on its hands" in centuries. Christianity and Judaism have matured with the modern world, and don't generally restrict their practitioners to essentially barbaric 7th century lifestyles. Islam, on the other hand, wants to keep its practitioners living as if nothing has changed since Mohammed made up his looney set of rules.

Neither Christians nor Jews force anyone to convert to their religions. Christians are commanded to persuade, but never force. Jews must actually discourage would-be converts three times before accepting his conversion. The Muslim, on the other hand, is commanded to convert by the sword, and they are still doing it here in the 21st century.

The basic tenets of Islam - Sharia law - are expected to form the basis of any Muslim government. This is 180 degrees from the Western ideal of separation of church and state, and leads very quickly to the disappearance of all liberty. How many free Muslim nations can anyone name? With the exception of Turkey, a sort of middle-of-the road nation that is partially free (but also repressive in many respects), all Muslim nations are tyrannical and/or fascistic.

As far as blood on the hands, yes, Christians and Jews have killed - in the distant past. It's stupid to say that killings by Christians a thousand years ago somehow excuse the bloodthirsty Muslims of today, since Muslims a thousand years ago were as guilty of killing as anyone else. Modern Christians and Jews are peaceful and forward-looking, not mired in the supposed glory of a 7th-century heyday. When was the last time Christians or Jews (or atheists, for that matter) beheaded innocent bystanders in a conflict? When was the last time Christians or Jews strapped explosives to themselves with the intent of murdering innocents in a marketplace? When was the last time Christians or Jews intentionally drove airplanes into buildings? Muslims do these things with regularity, and it is perfectly acceptable in the Muslim world -- or did I miss some public denunciation of these tactics by the one billion supposedly-peaceful Muslims of the world?

The real irony of the modern Islamic terrorism is that, left to their own devices, the 7th-century savages would have to attack their innocent victims with clubs and swords. Instead, they have to steal the technology of the advanced Western civilization they so deeply envy in order to attack it effectively.

My general opinion is that societies that embrace Islam will never amount to anything, because Islam keeps them mired in a past that cannot accept the modern world. Islam is, at its core, incompatible with modern life on earth, and successful "Muslims" will be those who call themselves Muslim but don't actually follow Islam. My general opinion is that it will eventually come to all-out war between the West and the Muslim world. Fortunately, we have more big sticks than they do, and the only reason the conflict hasn't been won by the West just yet is because we have showed extraordinary restraint in not using the Big Fire.

Maybe my opinions will change when I get to Afghanistan, but as it stands now, I'm looking forward to my first confirmed kill of a stupid terrorist with a cut-up tablecloth on his head and "Allah Akbar" on his lips.

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## Hal8000 (May 8, 2006)

Appreciate that Mike! 

Since I can't go over there, get one for me too, will you Mike?


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## Blastard (Aug 10, 2006)

It has been a while since I have agreed with a professor’s view pertaining to the real world. Too bad more of 'em don’t have the balls to stand up and speak their mind on matters such as this.

The whole cartoon thing shows just how out of touch these people really are.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

+ 1bn with Mike. I wish I could put it into words like that. The professor had it right also. So what if the world reads it. I hope they do. Free Speech that's what it's all about. Many a good soldier died to give us that right.


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

I've been pondering how to reply to your comments samskara. I give Mike a standing ovation and a handshake for putting into words in a professional manner what I've been trying to for the last couple hours.

Mike, I'm deadly serious here, if you ever make your way through IN I'll be pissed if you don't call me so I can can buy you a big steak and a coldbeer or two.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

I guess it will sound insulting but its not meant that way so here goes...
Sam ya need to pull your head out of the sand and look around!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Mike :smt023:smt023:smt023
Fantastic response! You saved me from having to write that much and you put it much better anyway. We have to remember that the Muslims are commanded by the Quran to do the things that they are doing. There is no such thing as piece with other religions according to Muslims. It's either convert or die. I will die before I convert. But I will go down fighting.:smt067 :smt068 :smt071


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## Flashbang (Sep 11, 2006)

samskara said:


> Furthermore that same 1st amendment gives freedom of religion, not freedom to pick what flavor of christian you have to be. :smt1099


Unfortunately,in the U.S., Radical Islam is often using "freedom of religion" as a tool when they harbor terrorist and promote violent overthrow. From a AP story Dec, 2001



> Residents of the compound, mostly black Muslims, will say little beyond proclaiming their innocence and complaining that they are victims of religious and racial prejudice.
> 
> Pierre said in court that al-Fuqra was a "phantom, nonexistent organization."
> 
> ...


To support Mike a little...From the magazine Growth Strategies
(trade publication providing coverage and analysis of economics. )


> According to the International Institute of Strategic Studies, 32 armed conflicts were underway in 2000; more than two-thirds involved Muslims. Yet Muslims are only about one-fifth of the world's population.


I suggest you get this book for more perspective: http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/10/17/131714.php


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

Mulsims are NOT commanded by the Koran to make people convert or die. In fact during the Arab conquests Muslims gave christians and jews an option of paying a tax rather than coverting (or dying), something I don't believe christians have ever done. Furthermore in the Constitution of Medina written by Muhammad he included the Medinan jewish community into his greater community and gave them protections from persecution. Radical Islam is a perversion, one I hope gets stomped out but not every, or even that many relative to the entire Muslim community are terrorists. How about the Japanese, were they as a collective people responsible for Pearl Harbor or was it a handful of warlords? Was every German soldier in WWII an evil Nazi? And how about the Kosovo conflict where Christian Serbs actively tried to exterminate the Muslim Bosnians. Or does killing Muslims not count as having blood on Christian hands?


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## Flashbang (Sep 11, 2006)

samskara said:


> . How about the Japanese, were they as a collective people responsible for Pearl Harbor or was it a handful of warlords? Was every German soldier in WWII an evil Nazi?


No, but the radical element did hold sway....I think.... if I remember my history.... yes..;-) and eventually the only way to deal with them was forcing them into _Unconditional Surrender_. We didn't have time to stop every German soldier and ascertain whether he was an evil Nazi as their tanks rolled and 88's fired. 
Even Patton, who took heat after the war for being sympathetic to the Nazi's, said before the war -
"We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-b*tches, we're going to rip out their living Godd*mned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun c*cksuckers by the bushel-f*cking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts.

I guess the question becomes.... how much does Radical Islam hold sway??? I think I agree with Michael Savage on this when he says -"We need more Patton and less patent leather"


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

Flashbang said:


> No, but the radical element did hold sway....I think.... if I remember my history.... yes..;-) and eventually the only way to deal with them was forcing them into _Unconditional Surrender_. We didn't have time to stop every German soldier and ascertain whether he was an evil Nazi as their tanks rolled and 88's fired.
> Even Patton, who took heat after the war for being sympathetic to the Nazi's, said before the war -
> "We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-b*tches, we're going to rip out their living Godd*mned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun c*cksuckers by the bushel-f*cking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts.
> 
> I guess the question becomes.... how much does Radical Islam hold sway??? I think I agree with Michael Savage on this when he says -"We need more Patton and less patent leather"


One other point...look back at what it took to FINALLY get the average japanese citizen to stand up to their leaders and say enough. 2 fkn nukes,one wasnt enough, it took 2. How many will it take to get the "peaceful muslims" ,all 2 of them, to say enough???????


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

> -"We need more Patton and less patent leather"


Hear Hear!!!!!


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

So who do we nuke? What city in what country? Maybe one or two for each predominately muslim country? Great then we've got nuclear winter since that would be half the planet. And do you think nuking a bunch of civilians is going to make them say we surrender, make us all christian or will it cause more fanaticism because then Islam will really be under attack. This isn't a war that will be won with nukes. Are we in Iraq just slaughter Muslims or are we trying to help a people that have been repressed by a psychopathic dictator who didn't murder his own people because of religion but to keep himself in power. Are you just incapable of not hating someone? Is it because its pc to hate Islam now since you can't get away with hating Jews, Catholics, Blacks, or Mexicans anymore. Do you have to have target to blindly hate. Does America have to have an enemy?


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## Flashbang (Sep 11, 2006)

Ok.... now you're babbling....come back when you are coherent and on point.


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

I am trying to have a debate here flashbang, I don't ask that you agree with me just that you be willing to listen to me as I am willing to listen to you. I'm sorry if I tend to jump around when I write online but I would hope you would at least keep your attacks on target. If you don't want to either add to what someone else said or give reason why my points might be invalid then stay on the sidelines where you belong. Since I won't change anyones opinion on here I invite all of you to visit a Mosque and actually learn about the religion that we share this planet with. See Muslims as human beings, not as the boogyman. Don't go through life with a closed mind to every strange idea that you encounter.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Just because we share our planet with Islam doesn't mean that it is good, nor that we have to blindly accept it. We've "shared our planet" with many repellent philosophies -- Naziism, Soviet Communism, etc. -- and we've been fortunate enough to crush some of them. We aren't obligated to accept Islam, even though Muslims want to force us to (or, since they are so very benevolent, force us to pay a tax if we accept second-class status). Note that not all people are allowed to pay the "second-class tax," only those who are also "of the book." Atheists, agnostics and pagans will be murdered outright, undoubtedly by the old favorite method of beheading.

As far as winning an atomic war...nuclear winter is nothing more than a theory, and one based on shaky evidence at that. Airbursting nuclear weapons greatly decreased fallout anyway, if it's even a serious concern in a giant desert. Just because the agenda-driven peacenik Carl Sagan (who wasn't actually an authority on nuclear war) said in "Parade" magazine in 1984 that nuclear winter would happen -- lions and tigers and bears, oh my! -- doesn't make it a fact. 

Since you asked, short list of targets would probably include: Mecca, Medina, Tehran, Riyahd, Baghdad (after our troops leave and the Shiites kill all the Sunnis), Damascus, Kabul, Islamabad, Mogadishu, and maybe Sanaa. Ten "cities" would be a good strategic start. It wouldn't be a genocidal attack, but rather one that would rob them of their power centers and strike a psychological blow. Essentially they'd have to realize that we can wipe them off the globe if they don't stop their crap. If, after the strike, they started acting more like the rest of us and less like murderous 7th-century nomadic tribesmen, we'd hold of on blasting the rest of their "civilization" into dust. If not, well, they asked for it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT this to happen. But I do think that it is inevitable if world events continue they way they have been.

Once again, Islam is clearly incompatible with the way the rest of the world wants to live. If a society (or the five percent of it that makes quasi-military strikes) wants to destroy us, and will not accept peace, then we will eventually have no choice but to destroy it. I have no particular heartache about this, since Islamic nations have contributed little but horror to the world for the last thousand or so years.


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## Flashbang (Sep 11, 2006)

When a liberal runs out of facts and starts ranting, experience tells me that there's not much point continuing the conversation. 


> Go make some Islamic friends


How many do you have??? Or, are you yourself moslim?? I do notice reading thru your posts that more than fair to the Germans and Japanese of WWII and Islamics - but very harsh on Christians. ( probably the only religion in the liberal PC world where _it is_ acceptable to be intolerant )
How many Moslim counties have you visited??


> I am trying to have a debate here flashbang


Then please answer some some of our observations on a point by point basis rather than going on a liberal rant.... such as


> How many free Muslim nations can anyone name? With the exception of Turkey, a sort of middle-of-the road nation that is partially free (but also repressive in many respects), all Muslim nations are tyrannical and/or fascistic.


???


> Muslims gave christians and jews an option of paying a tax rather than coverting (or dying), something I don't believe christians have ever done


Excuse me?! WRONG.. in the USA , a country based on Judeo/Christian values - Muslims have religious_ freedom _ which is different than religious _tolerance_ which Islam allows. ( however, much like Marxism looks good on paper, but has never worked in the real world - tolerance hasn't worked often in the history of Islam )

More specifically, when the Moslims went on their world domination march starting after the death of Mohammad,



> * Christians and Jews could not bear arms -- Muslims could;
> * Christians and Jews could not ride horses -- Muslims could;
> * Christians and Jews had to get permission to build -- Muslims did not;
> * Christians and Jews had to pay certain taxes which Muslims did not;
> ...


But this was only for the survivors left after their bloody conquest...

The Crusades were in response to the Muslim imperialism.


> This Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest continued through North Africa and through what is now Spain, Portugal, and southern France, until they were stopped at the battle of Poiters


I could go on but I suggest YOU first take some history classes and if your school is too PC to teach real history, then do it on your own so you can be a little more enlightened!


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

As usual...................Nuke 'em!


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

Ok flashbang I'll respond to several points made.


1st The list of targets for nuking that Mike proposed would certainly kill millions of Muslims but since only twenty percent of Muslims live in the middle east where all but I believe one of those targets are located you would not eradicate Islam which is the second largest religion in the UK, makes up ten percent of France, and will soon be the second largest religion in the USA so unless you plan to also go to war with just about every country on the planet and round up Muslims here in free America you couldn't eradicate them.

2nd Mike also says that Islam has contributed little but horror to the world in the last thousand years I guess we won't consider the fact that until they were invaded by the pillaging hordes of europe during the crusades (which were for money, not religion) they were the most advanced civilization on earth and that we benefited greatly in science and medicine from them and that many of the famous greek philosopher we talk about today we wouldn't know about if the Arabs hadn't saved their writings while they were burned by the church in Europe.

3rd Fb says I am a ranting liberal, I am in fact a moderate Independent and voted for Bush. I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't believe in the second amendment like the rest of yall.

4th I have two Islamic friends and am not myself Muslim. I'm spiritual but not religious. I have never been out of the country but hope to get to europe this next summer if I can save enough.

5th I was speaking historiacally when I said that christians had more of a convert or die attitude than Muslims which is true. Also Muslims paid a seperate tax that non Muslims didn't pay. Third the USA is founded on the idea that we can have religios freedom from every religion so i don't have to worry about wackos ofany religion aking over this country.


6th I attend Texas A&M University, one of the most conservative universities in the country, and I am a proud member of the Corps of Cadets and am persueing an Army contract. I am also a history major.


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## Thor (May 11, 2006)

Sam, think back, look back as to just WHY the Crusades happened. Muslims had been invading Europe for a long while before the Crusades. They would invade France, England and Spain and loot the cities, capture people and make them slaves. The Crusades was a response to the war that Islam waged on Europe.

Besides, just how do YOU interpret these verses from the Qu'Ran??


> _Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been God's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of God,- He will never let their deeds be lost._ (47:4)
> _
> And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage...But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know._ (9:3-6)
> 
> ...


It seems pretty clear to me what it means.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

Freedom of religion is totally a good thing,it should never be taken from the people of the earth....however to kill, maim, murder(en mass) as the islamic religion advocates, should be taken away with EXTREME prejudice!
If that means eradicating the muslims WHEREVER they may hide,so be it.
I have read just enough of the Quran to have come to believe that Islam is simply a demonic cult and Muhammad is satans son. And so far there has been no action or reaction to the terroristic pattern of Islam to come even close to causing me to change my opinion of the Islamic "faith".If you wish to buy into their "religion of peace" horseshit ,go ahead , as for me Ill keep my eyes open and weapons at the ready for any "peacful visitation" from Islam (such as 9/11/01).


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

How about "Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love aggressors." 2:193

or

"Say: Unbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever worship what I worship. You have your religion, and I have mine." 109:1

or

"Be courteous when you argue with the People of the Book, except with those among them who do evil. Say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and which was revealed to you. Our God and your God is one. To him we submit." 29:46

or

"Believers, Jews, Sabaeans, and Christians - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right shall have nothing to fear or to regret." 5:69


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The Aussie example was great, reminding if you live in a country you live by thier law and not make your ideas above the law.


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

Sam, I really have no words.

You need to stand real still, reach around behind yourself, grab ahold of your ears, and pull your head out of your ass. Look around!!!!!


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

JW I'm not the one with the closeminded medieval attitude.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

samskara said:


> JW I'm not the one with the closeminded medieval attitude.


I dont believe he ever claimed either........I believe he made an honest and obvious assessment of your state of denial about Islam...


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

So far, while there has been a great deal of disagreement on this thread, lets try to keep it civil. I've been proud of everyone not attacking each other, but it seems that things are teetering on the borderline now.....


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

I was not trying to be insulting if you are referring to me ship,I just think his obvious stand that its ok that ANYONE should pay a tax of anykind to simply exist is.... well...BS. So therefore JW's statement is an honest and obvious assessment of his state of denial of Islams "peaceful intentions".
I will NOT pay them a tax to exist,or convert, and I damn sure wont run from them,What I WILL give them is "an eye for an eye" justice when the shooting starts between Islam and the sane people of earth.
I would be in Iraq now(by choice) if I had not been refused re-enlistment due to age and health when this fracas first began!!!


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

I'll keep this short and sweet...






Personally, I believe that every muslim on the planet should be rounded up, put on a plane, and be dumped back into their middle eastern sandbox.

I have no respect for any muslim walking on this planet. Until the so called "good" muslims stand up against the radicals who are supposedly hijacking their "Religion of Peace"...they (the so called good) are nothing more than silent supporters of the carnage that the radicals are doing. Until the "good" muslims make that stand against their radicals, they will get no respect from me.

I could care less about past history... Right now in this point in history, Muslims...and only Muslims are planting road side bombs, beheading and torturing innocents because of their beliefs, blowing themselves up...killing dozens of innocents at one time, driving car bombs into markets full of people...killing more innocents. Flying planes into buildings, blowing up embassies. Muslims are carrying out in genocide in Darfur. Muslim clerics around the globe are teaching hate against anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Should I keep going...? Right now on this planet, every major conflict, with the exception of North Korea, is muslim related. Right now, in muslims countries, children are being taught to hate the west...because of our beliefs...or lack of.

http://mfile.akamai.com/34/wmv/cove...digital_net/2003/0302/pool56.asx?obj=dnrlv001

http://mfile.akamai.com/34/wmv/cove...gital_net/2003/0302/anissa56.asx?obj=dnrlv001

So there you have it... I'd keep going, but I'm getting tired of typing... :smt011


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I will say that I am a Buddhist (I grew up as a Catholic, however) - and, many of my points of view are taken thru that belief - hence my past stances on many issues that has come up on the site (like capital punishment) - sometimes my stances set me apart from some of the rest of the members here, so I tend to just keep my mouth shut sometimes.

But, I will admit that I am having a hard time forgiving the traditional Muslim, and only pointing to the radical Muslims as the cause of the problem. On talk radio and many other places, it continuously gets pointed out that "regular Muslims" are not taking a public stance against the so-called fringe element of violent Muslims. Supposedly, it is because they are afraid if they speak up, they will be killed by the fanatics. 

Yet, at the same time, the "regular peace loving Muslims" want us not to lump them in with the fanatics. That is kind of hard when they won't take their own stance to stop this violence.


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> That is kind of hard when they won't take their own stance to stop this violence.


Exactly.... :smt011


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)




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## Flashbang (Sep 11, 2006)

In defense of samskara - it is blazingly obvious ( even before he told us he attended Texas A&M ) that he was very young and that he was probably, to this point, a life-long student. The school systems are very liberally-slanted and do an especially poor job teaching history( as is apparent in his posts ) My son is a senior in a highly rated High School and has taken ADVANCED history courses three of his four years. It is appalling what instructors have said and written expecting students to take it as fact. My son is very acute at picking out the bias and has called more than one teacher a "flaming socialist". Last year he was often called by the teacher as " our resident conservative".



> 1st The list of targets for nuking that Mike proposed would certainly kill millions of Muslims but since only twenty percent of Muslims live in the middle east where all but I believe one of those targets are located you would not eradicate Islam


Do you really believe when people say to bomb that we "want to kill them all"?? ( this is a typical linchpin of a liberal rant ) Do you truly believe that we dropped the H-bombs on Japan that we were trying to kill them all!!!!! The Japanese army and even the Japanese populous were incredibly fanatical - and moreso the closer we got to their homeland. The purpose of dropping the nuke bombs was to take away their *WILL* to continue the fight. If we wanted to kill them all... we would have. Instead, after the unconditional surrender, we helped them to rebuild and became allies with them. At some point, if this present situation continues, we will need to do something to take away the WILL of the fanatical Muslim to continue the quest for overthrow of the west. ( And it ain't gonna be pretty )



> 2nd Mike also says that Islam has contributed little but horror to the world in the last thousand years I guess we won't consider the fact that until they were invaded by the pillaging hordes of europe during the crusades


Please pay attention.... I mentioned before that the crusades were in RESPONSE to Muslim encroachment!! ( again the lack of history ) Let me point out that Thor also pointed it out so you don't miss it next time...



> Sam, think back, look back as to just WHY the Crusades happened. Muslims had been invading Europe for a long while before the Crusades.


A little history lesson for you....



> It wasn't until 732, exactly 100 years after the death of Muhammad, that advancing Muslim forces were halted at the gates of Paris by Charles Martel. He was the grandfather of Charlemagne, who was crowned by the pope in A.D. 800 in an attempt to revive a united Western empire.
> 
> Three centuries later, it was another pope, Urban II, who called on Europeans to launch a crusade against encroaching Islamic forces. Four crusades followed lasting over 200 years.


3.....


> 3rd Fb says I am a ranting liberal,


Let me re-phrase then.... some of your rants are extremely liberal in nature... Much emotion, exaggeration, and a little loose with facts. 


> I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't believe in the second amendment like the rest of yall.


good!



> I have never been out of the country but hope to get to europe this next summer if I can save enough.


Good!



> I am also a history major.


You've got to be kidding!?!


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## samskara (Jul 19, 2006)

Can you blame them when death squads roam the streets in Baghdad killing Muslims not of their sect. If you pay attention to the body count Sunnis and Shiites actually spend more time killing themselves then American, I'm sure yall celebrate everytime one of them gets blown up. That part of the world has seen constant warfare since long before Islam came about, and thats the culture it was born into, and there will never be peace overthere unless people are willing to let it go. An eye for an eye, great we'll all be blind. But I guess its just so much easier to just nuke'em, at that level its not murder, just statistics. :smt022


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## Thor (May 11, 2006)

It's hard to believe that Texas A&M has run amok with liberalism. UT, I can understand, but NEVER the Aggies !! I guess I need to burn my "Sarge" hat.

I don't condone the attitude of "nuking them" because that will hurt the US in the long run. Tradewinds and all that. Even more, it could bring them together and make them even stronger willed than they already are.

From my military forum:



> *They're evolving more strategic operational thought processes. Rather than being desperate, or "running out of options", I see this as the enemy using a short- to mid-term gambit for achieving a long-term goal. Specifically, if they make nice-nice, and get enough of the insurgent groups to cease and desist for a sufficient period of time, the US military will be pressured by our gov't to exit Iraq. As soon as that occurs, most of the groups (al-Qaeda on top of the pile) will have achieved 2 goals: the US infidel military out of the country and free rein in Iraq. The first of those two goals applies to the religious insurgencies predominantly, while the second applies to both the religious and political power oriented groups. The leaders of all of those groups are not fools. They pay a great deal of attention to the political dynamics here in the states, and will know that enough of a stoppage of insurgent violence will trigger a massive campaign here by the Dems and various groups to get out of Iraq post haste. This is NOT the extension of a sincere olive branch, y'all.
> 
> President Bush has a four-point policy on terrorism:*
> 
> ...


*

There's more here than meets the eye when it comes to Islamo-fascism. Think "Chess"
*


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

samskara said:


> Can you blame them when death squads roam the streets in Baghdad killing Muslims not of their sect. If you pay attention to the body count Sunnis and Shiites actually spend more time killing themselves then American, I'm sure yall celebrate everytime one of them gets blown up. That part of the world has seen constant warfare since long before Islam came about, and thats the culture it was born into, and there will never be peace overthere unless people are willing to let it go. An eye for an eye, great we'll all be blind. But I guess its just so much easier to just nuke'em, at that level its not murder, just statistics. :smt022


Im sorry I dont quite get your point here???Fact is they are so into killing they kill each other,The death squads ARE MUSLIM TOO.Shiite and sunni are both muslim!! So just why should we not be happy, if they kill themselves off we will lose less young american lives in the long run.
And 9/11 WASNT murder???????????????


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

Here's the bottom line...

They started this war, period.

Their pure hatred for each other has spilled out onto the rest of the planet. Now we must deal with it. It's either we deal with now or later...either way, it must be delt with.

Muslims blame the United States and the rest of the west for our "Foreign Policies"...

Let me explain what those "Foreign Policies" are:

#1: The support of Israel.

#2: The support of Jews.

Well, that's it... no bells or whistles. So every time some stupid muslim straps on a bomb belt and kills or mames innocent women and children it's because our support for jews. Pretty fucking stupid isn't it...


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

If anyone is offended by my statement, I'll appoligize. I call things as I see 'em, some folks are offended by that. 

Mods, if you feel its out line, you will not offend me by deleting it. 

I cannot stand idly by while someone defends islam and muslims. There are too many good men and women defending their right to belive however they so choose from those radicals.....


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

At some point, if this present situation continues, we will need to do something to take away the WILL of the fanatical Muslim to continue the quest for overthrow of the west. ( And it ain't gonna be pretty )

Flashbang

The only thing these kind of people understand and respect is force of power. We may defect them in this one conflict but they will return to fight again because this is what the Quaran says to do. I don’t differentiate between “extreme” or “peaceful” Muslims. They all read the same book (Quaran) and thus must believe the same words which calls for all non-Muslims to convert or die. 

I will NEVER trust a Muslim! I welcome freedom of religion, which they don’t believe in, but I will never ever trust that they want peace with non-Muslims.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)




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## mozoishere (Jun 24, 2007)

*Europe Travel Concerns*

Be careful when you go to Europe, I hear that the Muslims are up to blowing / burning stuff up over there right now.


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

i think we should drop the first one on mecca.then say o.k. whoever starts anything next whatever country your from, your capital is next.


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