# Kel-Tec PMR 30



## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

What do you Kel-Tec owners think of this.
Kel-Tec PMR-30 pistol
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/23/kel-tec-pmr-30-pistol/










Kel-Tech has developed a new pistol which chambers the .22 Magnum (WMR) rimfire cartridge. The small size of the .22 WMR has allowed Kel-Tec to squeeze 30 rounds into the double-stacked magazine (a new original design), yet maintain a comfortable grip size.

The PMR-30 has a unique hybrid blow back / locked breech recoil system. In order to accommodate a wide range of ammunition, the pistol automatically adjusts between locked breach and blowback based on internal pressure. I look forward to seeing how this system works.

One problem with the .22 Magnum is that because it was designed as a rifle cartridge, the powder load is slow burning. This maintains high pressure in the barrel for a longer period of time. This high pressure can prevent extraction during recoil because the gas pushes out against the brass and presses it into the chamber wall. Shooting Log report that the PMR-30 has a fluted chamber to prevent this type of extraction problem. The gas enters the flutes and counterbalances the pressure against the case wall and also acts as a lubricant.1

The PM-30's frame is aluminum. The slide and barrel are steel. Interestingly, the barrel is fluted.

Regarding the .22 Magnum performance compared to the FN 5.7x28mm round, read this article.

Specifications 
Caliber .22 Magnum (.22WMR)
Barrel length 4.3"
Slide and Barrel 4140 Steel
Frame 7075 Aluminum
Magazine capacity 30 rounds
Trigger pull 3.5 to 5 lbs
Weight (no mag) 13.6 oz.
Length 7.9"
Height 5.8"
Grip Width 1.1"
Muzzle Velocity (40 gr) 1230 fps
Expected Availability Quarter 2, 2010
MSRP (Price) $415

Oleg Volk has taken some photos of the pistol...




























UPDATE: Bill pointed out that the Grendel P30, which was manufactured in the early 90s, was designed by George Kellgren, the founder and chief designer at Kel-Tec. I suppose the PMR-30 is an improved P-30.


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

Personally I have never had an interest in KT pistols. Can't shoot the small ones for squat.
But this pistol has my attention. Yah it's only a 22magnum but 30 rounds in 1 magazine is an impressive number.
I have many other pistols I feel I need to purchase before this, but I know this gun will be on my buy list.


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## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

Fugly, but I'd like to try one out. Impressive concept too. I would like to handle one and see how the locked breech/blowback mechanism operates. I always enjoy new ways to make a firearm function.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

you dont hear much about trouble from the 32acp but you do with the 3AT
so the pressures from a 22mag should be managable for the materials they use
30 rounds of 22mag in one magazine inside the grip - AWESOME

most say don't use a 22lr for self defense in the home but 30 rounds of 22mag --- hmmmmmmmm


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## Freedom1911 (Oct 22, 2009)

A lot of people crap on the 22 caliber. But how many people are going to volunteer to be used as a target for a 22lr. Pistol or long gun.
22mag gives a little more punch and 30 rounds is nothing to sneeze at.
Imagen being stabbed with a number 2 phillips head screw driver aprox 12 inches long, 30 times at twice the speed of sound.
I think that would be close to what it would be like to have one of these unloaded on a person. 
Not fun.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

i can't wait to get a pmr 30


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## eastlandb1 (Apr 26, 2009)

Looks great.


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## fudo (Nov 11, 2009)

It's fugly, but it will be a heck of a deal, if they can make it work.


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## BigDaveP (May 12, 2009)

all I can say is, wow.

I hope it works as good as the idea.

.22 mag comes out of a pistol barrel about 1/4 faster than .22 long. In a rifle, it's more like 50% faster, but that's because the powder in the .2 mag is slow burning for rifle use.

there is still an advantage in a pistol, though. A pretty good one, along with a big BOOM and a big WHOOSH of flame that is thoroughly impressive to someone on the other end of this round in a pistol.

one guy's site shows a 5" revolver barrel getting the .22 magnum round out at almost 1500 fps (_edit- obviously, with a 30 grain bullet_), and if this gun operates in locked breech mode it will be even faster. between that kind of speed and 30 rounds of a good hollowpoint, this new pistol wouldn't be the worst choice for self defense by a long shot...

not to mention the sheer FUN of 30 rounds.. 

I have a Taurus .22 mag revolver in 4" barrel, and it's a nice blend of power, speed, whoosh and boom, but still the straightest shooting revolver I ever had.. I know the powder burning outside the barrel is a waste and doesn't help the bullet along, but it sure is fun to see and hear.. and I can't help but think it might be a useful deterrent in a back alley too... as well as a nice loud noise to bring the law along...

I have a 32 round GLock mag that fits in my wife's G26, and once per session I'll load 'er up and make a very large hole in the middle of my target just for fun.. feels ENDLESS...


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## VasSigmeister (Jan 3, 2010)

Looks kinda cool, in a futuristic way... Wonder how well they shoot...


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

In case anyone's interested, CDNN Investments has these listed in their latest catalog......


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. If it feels good and shoots good I will own one.:mrgreen:


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

Is anyone selling these yet ?


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

*New video clip: PMR30 on full auto!*

I hadn't seen this before... maybe some of you will like this short video of the PMR30 on full auto. Scroll down a bit and click on the screen... It tends to quell my apprehension about out-of-the-gate reliability!

SNAFU!: Tactical-Life.com's review of the Kel-Tec PMR-30 Sub Gun...


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm still waiting to buy one.:watching:


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## wpshooter (Sep 22, 2008)

I see that there apparently are some of the PMR-30 available now.

Has anyone actually tried one of these and if so, what is your opinion ?

The price of these pistols seem to be running a lot higher than the price that was given in the first part of this thread.

Thanks.


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

I've been following that story a bit... Seems they released a small first wave a few weeks ago... I've read a few range reports from early buyers on other blogs/forums... From what I've read I get the impression the company is taking it slow in the beginning so they can fix the inevitable problems that crop up in early runs before anything gets too far out of hand. So far, I haven't read about any glaring problems... just some small stuff. They'll probably ramp production up quite slowly over these first few months. It's an interesting product. I'm also looking for first-hand reports and figure we'll probably see a couple on this forum soon.


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## mnyshrpknvs (Sep 19, 2010)

Has anyone recieved one of these and have any reactions they would like to share? I am really interested in buying one myself. Its just one of those guns you would get addicted to. Fast!


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

Here's a link to a blog that offers a lot of info... if you wade through the comments from August on... Kel-Tec had production set-backs... comments from Kel-Tec official... they're still kind of trickling out... many stores have wait lists... some price gouging going on because they're so in demand... most of the kinks seem worked out... some ammos work fine, others very problematic... those that have 'em, like 'em... etc...

SNAFU!: Kel-Tec PMR 30. Hitting store shelves soon?


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## Kharuger (Jun 19, 2010)

Here's a juicy recent update link from Kel-Tec's own website:

Kel Tec CNC


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

From my experience, rim fire ammo (or perhaps the guns that fire rim fire ammo) are not as reliable as center fire ammo. I think that the rim based primer is not as consistant as the center fire primer. In any case I have had many failure-to-fires with rim fire ammo, but never with factory center fire (reloads are another story entirely).

For personal defense I would never carry a rim fire weapon.


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## mnyshrpknvs (Sep 19, 2010)

Packard said:


> From my experience, rim fire ammo (or perhaps the guns that fire rim fire ammo) are not as reliable as center fire ammo. I think that the rim based primer is not as consistant as the center fire primer. In any case I have had many failure-to-fires with rim fire ammo, but never with factory center fire (reloads are another story entirely).
> 
> For personal defense I would never carry a rim fire weapon.


I agree as far as carrying goes. I have a Sig P226 in 357Sig for that. This would be a fun gun for me. As far as reliable rim ammo, it depends on the brand. I used to compete with 22 rimfire for many years. I only had reliability issues with old ammo, ammo that has been stored in a damp area or cheap brands(cheaply manufactured). I personally like Eley and Lapua 22 ammo for consistency and accuracy.


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

I still can't find one at a decent price.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

On the local discussion forum here, the local store is a sponsor. Just this morning they claimed that they are still trying to get their hands on some


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

Looks like a real "fun" gun in the finest spray and pray tradition. My guess is they will be prone to feeding and ejecting issues that I wouldn't want to mess with. .22 rimfires in semi-autos can be fussy, the .22 mags length will require precise chambering for rapid fire, and, well, it is a Kel-Tec, and I am a singed moth whence it comes to that flame.
Eli


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## Swamp Fox (Oct 2, 2009)

Alright. I know next to nothing about ammunition but it does seem that a cartridge as long as the 22 mag would have problems being cycled reliably in a pistol. Is the 22 mag just a bad idea altogether. I like the idea of high capacity, accuracy and control. Kinda itchy to try one out.


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## EK and KK in FM (Apr 9, 2011)

*Yes!*



mnyshrpknvs said:


> Has anyone recieved one of these and have any reactions they would like to share? I am really interested in buying one myself. Its just one of those guns you would get addicted to. Fast!


Got mine July 2010. First one in the state. My FFL has mostly former Special Ops and Bodyguards working--all knowledgeable and all well trained. One is a grand master.

We opened the box and took it into the range. Everyone tried the PMR-30 and everyone loved it! Trigger pull is light. Accuracy was outstanding!

Most impressive was the sound it makes--sounds so much bigger than a .22 Mag.

And finally, like the FFL said, "if you don't stop the BG with the .22 Mag, you can always light him on fire" (with the impressive flame that shoots out of the barrel). And yes, I know it's a waste of energy, but the "wow" factor makes it a lot of fun! Still--you do have a 4+ inch barrel and that gets the speed up enough that you won't have a lot of trouble defending yourself if it comes to that.

Everyone at the range had to come and see this impressive pistol. All the guys loved it. Very light--even loaded with 30 rounds.

While .22 Mag might not be as deadly as larger calibers, 30 rounds of it is nothing to sneeze at. Just nice to have lots of firepower in something as light, as accurate, and as much fun as this pistol is. LOVE IT!


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Well, it is September, and I still don't see any in any gun stores around my part of Indiana. I hope Kel Tec gets whatever problems sorted out and gets these to the dealers soon. I would like to have one for a bedside gun at home. tumbleweed


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## Lateck (Jul 23, 2010)

Just picked one up today. My LGS has had a number of them in and out! (They last only 2 day in the store).
Yes it is fulgly, the Sights are GREAT, it's nice to have a flame-thrower, fun gun!!!!!
Shoots nice! :mrgreen: 

Lateck,


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I think this would make a good home defense weapon. It is light, does not over-penetrate, and you can lay down 6 round bursts and do as much damage as a tap-tap-tap from a 9 millimeter. No recoil to deal with. Probably significant muzzle flash--these is a caliber designed for a rifle--so that might be an issue. I could even see it as a personal defense weapon (if anyone ever makes a holster for it) it only weighs 12 ounces empty so it would be an easy carry. There is the question about reliability. I had a High Standard derringer in .22 magnum. And no amount of gun smithing could get it to fire reliably--with just two rounds in the derringer that was a deciding factor for trading it in. But with 30 rounds in the magazine you are not impacted nearly as much. (And I think ammo manufacturing has improved since the late 1970s.)


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Lateck said:


> Just picked one up today. My LGS has had a number of them in and out! (They last only 2 day in the store).
> Yes it is fulgly, the Sights are GREAT, it's nice to have a flame-thrower, fun gun!!!!!
> Shoots nice! :mrgreen:
> 
> Lateck,


Damn, your lucky. Good luck with it just the same!:numbchuck:


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## rumaco (Apr 6, 2011)

My p3at has at least 4000 rounds through it and not one single problem........love the ugly little beast.


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## rumaco (Apr 6, 2011)

I for whatever reason contacted a dealer (B & H Gun Rack) near Kel Tec (only in Merritt Island) and asked if they had a list I could get on for a PMR30........NO! But I could leave my e-mail and they would e-mail if they got some in. I thought for a second and almost said no (what chance would I have) but then gave it to them, this was on 12/4/2011. On 12/7/2011 the e-mail arrived that they got 6 in, I called and as of 12/8/2011 it is enroute to it's new home..........absolutely amazing!!!!!!!!!! This is my 6th Kel Tec and the next will be the RMR30 and the next will be the KSG and the next and the next and the next......................I own SIGs (P220/P238) Kimber Ultra CarryII, Glock 30SF, Browning Medalist .22 (1964) and still think my Kel Tecs are one of the most reliable pistols around.


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## Samuri (Dec 19, 2011)

I talked to B&H Gunrack on 12/2/2011 and sent them a prepaid order for a PMR30 on the same day and you talked to them on 12/4/2011 and on 12/8/2011 you are being sent a new PMR 30. My question to you is: Who in the hell are you?


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## rumaco (Apr 6, 2011)

*Right place Right Time I guess*

Received my PMR30 about 4 days later. My brother in law also got one of them at the same time. Actually I was at the computer when the e-mail came through and in 30 minutes they were all gone. Seems like you got hosed.......I would be checking on that if I were you. Anyway I love it and wow what a pistol.


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## rumaco (Apr 6, 2011)

by the way B&H stopped taking orders long before you stated you placed a pre-paid order, I would be calling them if I were you!!!!!!


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## ZLDRider (Jan 6, 2015)

My father just bought one of these last year (old thread) and let me shoot it. It is a tack driver and lots of fun to shoot. It wants to use high velocity ammo, though.


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## Pandaz3 (Aug 23, 2018)

Shot mine today, though I bought it in 2015. Very happy


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## .32auto (Jan 20, 2018)

It's a fun gun, easy to shoot, accurate, but there seems to be a design flaw (at least in mine). Frequent failure to feed UNLESS I apply pressure to magazine while shooting. There is a you tube video (funny, worth watching for the stoner who made it) about tightening it up to make it more reliable. It should be made to seat about 1 mm higher....doubt it will happen though. So, I still love to shoot but my two hand grip includes pressure at the bottom pushing up.


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## Pandaz3 (Aug 23, 2018)

I did not have to do that... so far. I will keep that in mind though


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## Tom Marshall (Oct 7, 2019)

I too have recently seen info on the PMR 30 that got my interest, While it is new to many of us the pistol has been around for about 10 years. They are available from many sources. Nationally from the discount retailers costing about $300-$350. Nominal shipping to your FFL. Thus another fee. While it is easy to fire up re the 30 round capacity Kel Tec suggests 40 grain ammo. CCI Maxi Mags likely the best. And, perhaps, Aguila. One other detail to consider is you will find the ammo costs exceed 9mm. I costed it out and it looked like ammo at about $6.60 per mag. Not like 22LR at $.02-$.04 each. Just sayin. Tom in Georgia.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

I was hot to get one of these but after Kel-Tec advertised it but a year later it still wasn't available. I'm glad now. A CZ p-09 (19 shots) and a TX22 (16 Shots) are what I ended up with.


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## championmike832 (10 mo ago)

Had a PMR 30 and loved it.had to trade part of a car deal.othrwise I would still have it.


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## bigtex10mm (Apr 1, 2021)

The only thing I dislike is that the ammunition is too expensive for as much shooting I would love to do with the gun I was lucky enough to get 500 rounds of fairly inexpensive ammunition a while back on sale directly from CCI.









Here's my gun. It was a gift from a man I worked for as a gunsmith. He owned a pawn/gun shop and was a great guy t work for.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

bigtex10mm said:


> The only thing I dislike is that the ammunition is too expensive for as much shooting I would love to do with the gun I was lucky enough to get 500 rounds of fairly inexpensive ammunition a while back on sale directly from CCI.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice gift!


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