# WTB: A new right knee



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Mine is shot and I've been told that I need a total knee replacement. That was over 10 yrs. ago. I've been making do, and I don't want to undergo surgery until I'm way closer to age 65. I turned 59 last October. I only want to go thru this once. That's why I'm waiting. 

But.....I did go to a seminar two weeks ago in regards to a non-surgical process to aid in the discomfort / pain. It's called Joint Fluid Therapy (JFT). The injectable solution is called Supartz (Hyaluronan or HA). 

It gets injected precisely into the knee joint via a live x-ray. The process consists of 5 injections, once a week for five weeks. There are some rehab exercises involved as well. Positive results can last anywhere from 6 months to 4 years. 

Anyways, I went in today for the preliminary x-rays of my right knee. I already had a consult with the doctor, and once she receives the x-rays, she'll examine them to see if I'm a good candidate and then call me for a final consult. 

My insurance should cover the vast majority of the cost. I'll know for sure prior to having to make a decision if I want to proceed or not. 

Since this is not a steroid and is all natural, it can be repeated as needed, unlike other injections that have to be metered out over a given period of time. 

So....I have hope that it will work and last a year or longer. I'm so used to my right knee giving me fits at times, that I've more or less become used to it. If this procedure does work, I'll celebrate as soon as I can, by going for a m/c ride, and riding longer than just an hour or so, w/o any pain or discomfort.


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## hammer1 (Oct 7, 2013)

Good luck, hope it works. After 8 years of jump status with the Rangers, and then the 82nd, my knees are shot. The VA doc said they are "loosening up".


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

hammer1 said:


> Good luck, hope it works. After 8 years of jump status with the Rangers, and then the 82nd, my knees are shot. The VA doc said they are "loosening up".


Yup.....I'm sure that my time jumping out of airplanes while in the military didn't do them any good.

Just can't prove it. Too long ago.


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## bigjohn56 (Jan 26, 2013)

Did you try any Synvisc injections? I have a couple of friends who did it and would recommend it. They both were in the same boat as far as needing the knee replacement but were putting it off as long as possible. My daughter actually got a Synvisc injection while playing college softball (a couple of knee surgeries) and the joke was that all of the females players called it the "cock shot" as it comes from a rooster's (chicken's) comb.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

bigjohn56 said:


> Did you try any Synvisc injections? I have a couple of friends who did it and would recommend it. They both were in the same boat as far as needing the knee replacement but were putting it off as long as possible. My daughter actually got a Synvisc injection while playing college softball (a couple of knee surgeries) and the joke was that all of the females players called it the "cock shot" as it comes from a rooster's (chicken's) comb.


We might be talking about the same thing, only under a different name. The stuff I mentioned is derived from a rooster's comb.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Depending on your doctor and the success rate for knee replacements, and/or insurance issues, it's probably better to opt for getting it done sooner rather than later I would think.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I've been through all of this, up to and including knee replacements. From the fall of 2009 to the spring of 2012, I was undergoing shots of euflexxa (Euflexxa® - An Injectable Treatment for Osteoarthritis Knee Pain) from once a year to every three months. The last series of injections (there were three in the series) only lasted a month. So in October 2012, I underwent a total knee replacement of my right knee. Just last Friday, March 7, I had a partial knee replacement of my left knee. My wife has had both of her knees totally replaced.

If you would like to discuss this with me, send me a PM and we can talk about it.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

An option might be to go the "Land of the Oz"... 
http://rlv.zcache.com/the_wizard_ga...a1dbd6e3b7246a4ad397579a0ebdcda_va6pw_512.jpg


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

denner said:


> Depending on your doctor and the success rate for knee replacements, and/or insurance issues, it's probably better to opt for getting it done sooner rather than later I would think.


There are pro's and con's to what you are suggesting. I've heard from those that have had a total knee replacement, and it seems to be a 50/50 crap shoot to some extent. Okay, well maybe a 60/40 ratio. What I'm saying is that a knee replacement isn't a 100% total guarantee that it will go well.

I've had two doctors tell me *NOT* to do it, and just manage the pain and/or discomfort as best I can. One was a VA doc and the other a civilian doc.

The way I see it, if I wait maybe another 5 yrs. or so, technology will be just that much more advanced. That, and I'll be 65 or close to it. Joint replacement technology is marching right along and is making incredible advances. I only want to have this done once, and not twice or more, like some people end up having done. With each add'l. replacement, the procedure becomes less and less successful.

People keep telling me to just get it done and over with. But I guess my knee just isn't bad enough yet, and my gut tells me to wait for a few more years. That and the fact, that I'll be trying to get my elderly father to move to where we are, and if he agrees, I don't want a recovering leg getting in the way of the move. The move could happen this year. That's the most important thing on the top of my list right now.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> I've been through all of this, up to and including knee replacements. From the fall of 2009 to the spring of 2012, I was undergoing shots of euflexxa (Euflexxa® - An Injectable Treatment for Osteoarthritis Knee Pain) from once a year to every three months. The last series of injections (there were three in the series) only lasted a month. So in October 2012, I underwent a total knee replacement of my right knee. Just last Friday, March 7, I had a partial knee replacement of my left knee. My wife has had both of her knees totally replaced.
> 
> If you would like to discuss this with me, send me a PM and we can talk about it.


Thank-you for the kind offer. I just might take you up on it, if things change and I begin to move in the direction of the surgery in the near future.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

I've been going through a similar procedure on my lower back. 25 years of LE have caused enough spine compression that nerves are getting pinched. I had several nerves burned to neutralize pain, then a series of injections to deal with the nerves that aren't as bad. It has alleviated most of the pain, but there is still numbness and tingling in my legs. Unfortunately, the nerves grow back, so this is all temporary. The only permanent solution is to trim the bones that are pinching nerves. At this point, I'm not ready to have my spine cut on. The best thing I did was retire, which took care of what was causing the compression. I'm only 52, but with the wear and tear of a LE career, I feel much older.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

hud35500 said:


> I've been going through a similar procedure on my lower back. 25 years of LE have caused enough spine compression that nerves are getting pinched. I had several nerves burned to neutralize pain, then a series of injections to deal with the nerves that aren't as bad. It has alleviated most of the pain, but there is still numbness and tingling in my legs. Unfortunately, the nerves grow back, so this is all temporary. The only permanent solution is to trim the bones that are pinching nerves. At this point, I'm not ready to have my spine cut on. The best thing I did was retire, which took care of what was causing the compression. I'm only 52, but with the wear and tear of a LE career, I feel much older.


And I can absolutely appreciate what you're going through, too. On January 2, 2013, I noticed a strange feeling in my lower back while leaning over to my left and looking for some cat food. By the time I got home, the pain had set in. I contacted a spinal specialist and two weeks later an MRI confirmed that I had LSS (Lumbar Spinal Stenosis) between L4 and L5. Pain was radiating down my left leg via the sciatic nerve and exhibited classic LSS symptoms. Over the next four months, a series of six separate injections and a MILD (Minimally Invasive Lumbar Decompression; an out patient surgical procedure) operation did nothing to stem the increasing pain. So in June of last year, I underwent spinal decompression and fusion surgery. One week later, the pain magically disappeared and I am fine to this day. I do have four screws and two pins in my L4/L5 vertebrae to show for this.

Crazy. You retire and then go to the dogs. First my knees and then my lower back. And then to add frosting to the cake, last August I turned up with prostate cancer. So in September, that was surgically removed (robotic). I've had enough of surgeons practicing their craft on me for a while.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

hud35500 said:


> I've been going through a similar procedure on my lower back. 25 years of LE have caused enough spine compression that nerves are getting pinched. I had several nerves burned to neutralize pain, then a series of injections to deal with the nerves that aren't as bad. It has alleviated most of the pain, but there is still numbness and tingling in my legs. Unfortunately, the nerves grow back, so this is all temporary. The only permanent solution is to trim the bones that are pinching nerves. At this point, I'm not ready to have my spine cut on. The best thing I did was retire, which took care of what was causing the compression. I'm only 52, but with the wear and tear of a LE career, I feel much older.


Yes, I hear you loud and clear. 30 yrs. of LE has contributed to wear and tear on my knees, as well as a couple of other parts. I'm lucky though, as no back issues. I did have some when I was working, but since retiring, they have all but disappeared. Back issues have to be the worst of all.

The only thing worse than growing old, is dying and I ain't ready.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

I had surgery on both knees long before I retired. Both have very little meniscus left, which makes for a lot of loud popping! As with the back, retiring was the best thing for the knees.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

hud35500 said:


> I had surgery on both knees long before I retired. Both have very little meniscus left, which makes for a lot of loud popping! As with the back, retiring was the best thing for the knees.


Retiring was also very good for my mental health.

Since having retired, I haven't had to be committed once. :smt033


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## acepilot (Dec 16, 2012)

hud35500 said:


> I had surgery on both knees long before I retired. Both have very little meniscus left, which makes for a lot of loud popping! As with the back, retiring was the best thing for the knees.


Me too...both my meniscuses have been removed. It was fine for about a year and now the loud popping you mention has started. It doesn't hurt, just sounds horrible. I forgot to mention this to my chiropractor and he was holding my leg out to the side with a bit of resistance and I was supposed to overcome his resistance and bring my leg back in. POW! He thought he broke something. I bet the look on his face was priceless. Wish I could have seen that! I can be a bit sadistic at times. :anim_lol:


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

Big time relief on the mental health! Stress level basically at zero! Hardest decision I make all day is what to cook for dinner! I did take over all the domestic duties(which I enjoy). Less stress on the wife helps both of us!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I feel for ya. I messed up my left knee in my late 20s. I should never had that knee scoped in 1999. They "smooth" out the cartilage - but in essence, they THIN it out. A year later, I had sharp pain in that knee. Couldn't walk and was on crutches. Had a 2nd surgery - had holes in the cartilage... Bone on bone in places. Even after that surgery, I ended up having to get a cortesone shot before I could walk again. I spent 6 months total on crutches when it was all said in done. That second surgery was around the year 2000.

Now, 15 years later since this all started, my other knee is messed up... Favoring it all these years. I don't need an MRI to know the problem - hurts exactly the same in the same places.

My doctor doesn't wanna do knee replacement until you are 40. I am 41 now... Now, he's pushing me to mak eit to 50 if I can.

Honestly, I don't want to. But, there is so much I cannot do... Especially with a 6 year old. I can't stand up in lines, and I can only walk very short distances. I kinda feel like I don't want to do knee replacement until I just can't walk at all, however. On good days, I can walk a couple of blocks. But, if I stand up in 1 place too long without walking, I'm screwed for a while.

I have seen people who have gotten infections, got hooked on pain pills as a result, and had the leg amputated. So, anytime you have a joint replaced - there is a possibility of it going horribly wrong too.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Shipwreck said:


> I feel for ya. I messed up my left knee in my late 20s. I should never had that knee scoped in 1999. They "smooth" out the cartilage - but in essence, they THIN it out. A year later, I had sharp pain in that knee. Couldn't walk and was on crutches. Had a 2nd surgery - had holes in the cartilage... Bone on bone in places. Even after that surgery, I ended up having to get a cortesone shot before I could walk again. I spent 6 months total on crutches when it was all said in done. That second surgery was around the year 2000.
> 
> Now, 15 years later since this all started, my other knee is messed up... Favoring it all these years. I don't need an MRI to know the problem - hurts exactly the same in the same places.
> 
> ...


It sounds as if you've had a lot more issues than I have had. I had my right knee scoped in 2003 and it did help quite a bit. I never had to use crutches, except for a few days after the knee scope.

The pain / discomfort I'm experiencing is manageable. The only med I take is Aleve, and that's* NOT *on a daily basis. The whole knee joint replacement thing can be confusing. As I mentioned earlier, I've had two doctors tell me not to do it. Same goes for those who have had it done already. Both good and bad stories can be had.

That's why I'm hoping that this procedure I'm exploring works out for me. I'm curious to see if it can last longer than just a few months.

As long as I keep moving and walk a little, overall, it's not too very bad. But, like you said, if I try to stand in one position for too long, my knee gets sore and inflamed quickly. That's the worst I experience.

Also, as I mentioned previously, if I do proceed and have a total knee replacement, I'm really going to try and wait until I'm closer to age 65. If the surgery happens, I only want to go thru all of this once and only once.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, I have gotten many cortesone over the years. Some in my other knee too. USed to get me goiung for about a year. It's been 2-3 years since my last one.

I used to take 800mg ibuprofen for years. I can no longer take it due to stomach issues. After a few months, the problem went away, and I can now take two 200mg ibuprofen pills when needed without it bothering my stomach. The last time I needed a shot was when I couldn't take any - since I had no ability to take the anti-inflammatory, the doc wanted me to hold off on the shot until it got worse. I used crutches for a couple of weeks and got over it.

What sucks is that when I go on trips, I have to use crutches. If I could just walk straight thru, I would be fine. But, I can't stand in lines for security, boarding, etc. I also look 10 years or so younger than I am. So, people do not believe me if I do not have the crutches. I have asked for assistance to a gate before - the employee looked me over and refused. SInce then, I just have to take the crutches. 

In some airports, the walk IS too far for me. But without just having the crutches, I have issues getting that wheelchair assistance. 

Now, I have arthritis in my neck - my chiropractor believes that this was quite possibly caused by all the steroid shots I've had in my knees over the years. Just can't win....


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Shipwreck said:


> Well, I have gotten many cortesone over the years. Some in my other knee too. USed to get me goiung for about a year. It's been 2-3 years since my last one.
> 
> I used to take 800mg ibuprofen for years. I can no longer take it due to stomach issues. After a few months, the problem went away, and I can now take two 200mg ibuprofen pills when needed without it bothering my stomach. The last time I needed a shot was when I couldn't take any - since I had no ability to take the anti-inflammatory, the doc wanted me to hold off on the shot until it got worse. I used crutches for a couple of weeks and got over it.
> 
> ...


Damn, I really feel for you. You've had it bad.

I too, tried the cortisone shots a couple of times, but they only worked 7-10 days for me. I went thru three series I believe and then stopped getting them. From what I recall, I had to wait about 90 days before I could get more.

I can understand your doctor wanting you to wait until you get older to consider knee replacements. But, if the quality of your life is bad (and it sure sounds that way) the decision must be yours as to when you want to have it done.

Whatever you decide, I wish only the best of luck to you.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks. Good luck to you too.

Yes, I think you can only get 3 of those shots a year, or they can damage the joint.

I grew up sick with asthma a lot as a kid, and was in the ER and hospital all the time. Shots and IVs do not bother me. But that shot in the knee - with that big, long needle for the cortesone shot.... I do NOT watch it as it goes in. I do not think I could stay still if I did. YIKES. Hahaha....

Well, My mom is pushing me to get the procedure. However, I feel like I never should have done that first surgery. If only I had known... (there was no way to know). A slight discomfort is completely different than what I have now. However, I feel like after all that fiasco, I'm not gonna get it done until I just can't walk anymore. So, I'm not ready to do it.

Plus, it was easier to say "one of these days" - now, one of those days is now or close to now, it seems.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Shipwreck and paratrooper;

I understand what both of you have had to go through with your knees. My right knee was the worse. Just like Shipwreck, standing for more than a few minutes and walking for any distance was out of the question; the pain was pretty bad. Bone on bone plus the fact that my right leg was 7 to 8 degrees bowed outward.

My surgeon is fantastic; perhaps the best in our area. He has done well over 4,000 knee surgeries and has developed his own methods that do seem to really work. My right knee was replaced in October 2012 and there is absolutely no pain whatsover. I can stand, walk, and do pretty much anything I want (no running or rock climbing). He did a partial replacement on my left knee on March 7, 2014 and three days later, I was driving my truck and my car. This is significant because both of my vehicles have manual transmissions (would never think of buying an automatic in a personal driving machine but probably would in a utility vehicle like a truck). 

I have maybe a month of physical therapy ahead of me now and then expect to be good to go. If you folks are having as much pain as you say, find the best surgeon can and give some serious thought to having a replacement done. It is life changing.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> Shipwreck and paratrooper;
> 
> I understand what both of you have had to go through with your knees. My right knee was the worse. Just like Shipwreck, standing for more than a few minutes and walking for any distance was out of the question; the pain was pretty bad. Bone on bone plus the fact that my right leg was 7 to 8 degrees bowed outward.
> 
> ...


I already have a surgeon that I have seen. He's a good one, and told me, that I'd know when the time is right. He's never tried to push me into having the surgery done.

I'm not very good at doing rehab therapy. That is what will be the challenge for me.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> I already have a surgeon that I have seen. He's a good one, *and told me, that I'd know when the time is right*. He's never tried to push me into having the surgery done.
> 
> I'm not very good at doing rehab therapy. That is what will be the challenge for me.


He's dead right with this. As for rehab, that is largely going to depend upon the practice you use. My wife and I have used the same one for both of our knees and my lower back so we are very satisfied with them and their program. They don't kill you but rather try to get you up on your feet and functional. I suspect I am not going to be going very long with my left knee partial replacement because I am already well ahead of the game.

As for the longevity of the prosthesis's... While my surgeon will tell me that it is around 15 years, in private discussion he says they really don't know because frankly, his patients die before their fake knees give out. That can be 20 to 25 years or more after the surgery.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks for your information, Southernboy


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> Thanks for your information, Southernboy


You're welcome, my friend. I know what you're going through. I had three years of serious pain with my right knee before I had it replaced. I know it can be a difficult decision, but from what I found in my research before my first one, only a small percentage of people have problems after the replacement.

After my right total knee replacement, I was walking around without help (walker or cain) by five days after the surgery. And I was driving around the neighborhood 12 days after the operation. I was so happy that I didn't have any pain I just didn't know where to start first.

But the worse pain I ever had with chronic conditions was my lower back last year due to LSS (Lumbar Spinal Stenosis). The left sciatic nerve pain was debilitating to say the least. At times, it was simply crushing. Then last June, I had open back decompression and fusion surgery on my L4/L5 vertebrae. When the surgeon was in there, he opened up the boney passages through which the nerves pass and generally cleaned up the mess. It took a week for the pain to disappear (I thought he botched the job), but one week to the day later... gone. Like magic. The sciatic nerve had to decompress and refill with blood before the pain ceased..

As for my left leg with my new partial knee replacement of 11 days ago (March 7), it is doing great. Had my first out patient PT yesterday and all went fine. A little blood spot did appear but a fresh bandage when I got home, after letting it air, helped that. I have maybe 70% use of it right now. I can drive, walk around fine (no helping aids), and will probably do my usual grocery shopping tomorrow. I am not taking any pain meds, except when I go to PT, so that is good. It is still at times but walking around clears that up pretty much. And since my vehicles both have manual transmissions, my left leg does get a little bit of a workout when driving in my area.

It's hell to get old at times. Mind works fine, still love the things of my youth (Rock n' Roll, drag racing and cars, guns, etc.) but the body is going to do what it will.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Good luck in the recovery of your latest surgery. And, I hear a wide range of the lifetime of these joint replacements. Obviously, since my problems started in my late 20s - putting this off is smart. But, I keep hearing stories of people who keep going long after the 10-12 year lifetime the docs like to throw around. But, since you can only have 2 of these in the same knee over a lifetime, butting it off a little while may be a decent idea.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Shipwreck said:


> Good luck in the recovery of your latest surgery. And, I hear a wide range of the lifetime of these joint replacements. Obviously, since my problems started in my late 20s - putting this off is smart. But, I keep hearing stories of people who keep going long after the 10-12 year lifetime the docs like to throw around. But, since you can only have 2 of these in the same knee over a lifetime, *putting it off a little while may be a decent idea.*


Yes it is when you are still rather young. One can never be certain of how long a prosthesis such as these will last so waiting until you are in your 60's is a better bet. My surgeon generally says 15 years but in confidence he did admit that he is seeing 5 to 10+ years beyond that.... basically the rest of his patients' lives.


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