# Polishing stage



## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Dear all,
I'm going thru the 1st stage of reloading.
I bought a Lyman tumbler with abrasive medium, works all right, i'm polishing the brass in 200fuls.
got some questions for you, I'll appreciate your insight on the subject:


*grains stuck in the flash hole*: the medium polishes even the inside of the cases (not so good as outside). 80-90% of the times, though, I noticed one grain stuck inside the bottom flash hole. Now, do I have to remove them manually, if possible (as someone suggested in a previous post I read) or is the deprimer tool going to do the job? I ordered a Lee 100 pro press, suppose the deprimer is a stage in the process.
*Brass of same caliber, different make*: I have once-fired cases in .38 special of two different brands. Bullet weight is the same. Don't have a caliper so can't tell if the sizes are exactlyu the same, I'd suppose so.Do you suggest to reload the two separately or can i mix the cases?
*Quantitative economy*: how many times you usually reload cases (the undamaged ones of course). Did you figure out the savings in reloading compared to equivalent factory ammo (.38 sp)? Opinions here differ.
*Powder scale*: do you prefer the mechanical or the electrical, digital scale?


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## Dsig1 (Dec 23, 2007)

I can only help with questions 2 and 3 since I take my brass to someone else for reloading (he has a business doing this).

2. I supply brass of all manufacturers in mixed bags of the same caliber. You should not have a problem. Make sure no aluminum cases are mixed in, brass and steel are fine.

3. I've asked my reloader this question many times and his answer has been consistent in that if there are no visible wear spots and the shell holds up in the loading process, it will be functional in the firing process. I know I'm currently using some brass that has been fired at least 5 times with no malfunctions or problems.

4. He also uses a digital scale but that may be preference.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

1. Tap the grains out or take scribe and pick them out.
2. Use all brass and nickel plated for .38's. Don't worry about make. Get a vernier dial caliper. Cost about $30.00. Their a must have in my book.
3. I load them till they split or I lose them. Yes over time you will save a fair amount. Here's a cost calculator for ya.http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
4. Your call on the powder scale. Just besure and get some weights and check it often.
5. Good luck.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Hey mccoy, it sounds like you are diving in head first.

I also use the Lee Pro1000 and have a suggestion or 2 for you.

First answers to your questions.

1. I always run fired brass through a short cleaning cycle, perhaps 30 minutes, to clean any dirt or crud picked up when falling on the ground. I then Deprime and size followed by longer cleaning cycle. I like shiny brass. Media that sticks in the flash hole gets punched out later when Priming the clean cases because I run them through the sizing/deprime die a second time.

2. Brass of different manufacture: Mixing brands is ok, what can create problems is different lengths. With a .38/357 you should insert the bullet such that the crimp is within the cannelure ring. Different case lengths which can occur within the same brand as well as brand to brand may require different overall lengths to achieve proper crimp.

3. Economy: The Brass which is a significant cost new, can be used numerous times. I have not worn out any brass yet but know it can happen. If loading Hot .357 loads I use new or newer brass. For .38 spl. which is a low pressure round you should be able to get 5 to 10 cycles out of it. Perhaps more. 5 cycles moves it down considerably in effective cost. If "Once Fired" brass is available brass cost becomes insignificant. My .40 brass, once fired, that cost $30 per thousand when I purchased it, has survived 5 cycles and is still going strong. 

4. The lee Pro 1000 powder delivery has proven to be very consistant with VihtaVuori powders which I use and the simple Lee balance beam is doing what I need for significantly less than electronic approaches. I spent 40+ years in the Electronic manufacturing industry and don't trust electronics as much as simple mechanical devices.

The Lee Pro 1000 can be an effective tool if you reccognize it's shortcomings and strengths. 

1. Short comings: Any contaminants in the primer feed zone will halt the loading process. Keep a can of canned air available to blow clean the area from time to time.

In dry conditions static electricity will cause powder to jump out of the powder feed and inevitably end up in the primer feed zone resulting in a stoppage. In moist conditions powder will find a way to do the same as during dry conditions.

The cure is to prime cases in one pass and load powder and bullet in a pass independant of priming.

2 Strengths: The case feeder tubes with red plastic collator is great. Longer cases don't feed as reliably as short ones but it beats the dickens out of loading cases individualy.

General: Buy some powdered graphite and rub some on the powder feed disk upper surface. It helps reduce static charges and improves seal of powder system. Don't buy the adjustable powder cavity unless using larger powder quantities ie. cavities larger than .7 CC. I removed most of the cartridge output zone fence resulting in elimination of output zone log jams.

I use .357 Mag cases for all of my GP100 cartridges even though .38 spl. and lower loads may be used. This allows me to trim all cases to a common length thereby reducing bullet insertion adjustments. It also prevents ring around the collar in the cylinder that occurs when using short cases in long cylinders.

That's probably enough for now.

Go have some fun.

:smt1099


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm not very trusting of the digital scales. I bought an RCBS 1010 scale years ago and I'll most likely never need to replace it in my lifetime. The good mechanical one's can be recalibrated by you at any time and it is a lot easier to see if something isn't right and a whole hell of a lot more fool proof. I've got some .38's and .357's that have been loaded a bunch and all you need to do is cull out the damaged one and check their length after resizeing every once in awhile. As long as they are in one piece and workable they are good to go. Your brass will last a lot longer if you are careful not to over expand or crimp as this over works the brass and will shorten it's life.

PS
TOF got here a hair sooner than I did. I just read his post and I'll stamp it "TOTALLY APROVED". Very good words for sure!
I have seen it posted that washing the powder hopper in dish detergent will get rid of the static problem too. I just bought a Pro 1000 but have yet to get it mounted and set up. I'm glad TOF likes his cause it means if mine don't work it will be me and not the machine.....That I can fix......


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

For what it's worth guys, I have loaded in excess of 13,000 rounds of 9MM, .40S&W .38Spl. and .357Mag on my Pro 1000. If I threw it in the trash today it will have paid for itself many times over. For anyone that hasn't purchased one yet though, I would spring for the additional $60 to $70 for the Lee Loadmaster knowing what I do now. The loadmaster allows use of the Lee Factory Crimp Die in addition to standard dies for pistol ammo. It is not essential but I would prefer to use one as it allows you to set bullet depth in the case independant of the crimp. It will also accomodate rifle rounds which the Pro 1000 will not.

I am far from expert at this handloading game but have some experience with the Pro 1000 and will be quite willing to assist you should you have questions I can answer. Either PM me or better yet let others see the info exchange as we are doing now.

Enjoy.

:smt1099


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

My first time around with reloading was all done on an RSBS Partner press one at a time and weighing each charge. It was fun at first but after about a 1000 rounds it wasn't so much fun anymore. I'm looking forward to getting the Pro 1000 up and going. I bought it in .45 ACP and had dies for .357 so I got all the rest of the stuff to switch between the two. I actually started with the lowly Lee Loader.....I set off a lot of primers with that stupid thing but it got me started.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

Gentlemen, thanks very much for your feedback.

Yes TOF, I'm just catching up with shooting, you started right out of the cradle, I started at 47 :smt089. My immediate goal is to shoot 600-800 rounds a month, to be able to achieve good clusters at 15 yards. I just hate them stray rounds. So, a little elementary math is enough to show that reloading is almost mandatory for me. Besides: I understand that every gun has got it's favourite load, which varies according to conditions. Most interesting I read somewhere one should find a load which matches with the barrel's harmonics during the firing.

About the stuck grains: tapping the case is not enough, those grains are angular and the asperities trap the grains tight into the flashole. If inevitable, I'd remove them one by one, but I have 400 polished cases to charge, almost all of'em with a trapped grain. By the time I'll get my press and my license (necessary to purchase the powder), I'll probably hit the 700-800 cases. So it makes sense to follow TOF's suggestion in my specific case (Lee pro 1000): I'll deprime/prime the cases all together and then proceed to loading the powder, avoiding at the same time those bothersome jams.


About different makes: the once fired brass comes from my range sessions, shot by the same S&W revolver (I'm presently buyin the range's factory ammo), so i've got control over it, straight from the cylinder into my palms and cozy bag (that's one undeniable advantage of the revolver). I'll buy that caliper, measure them, if they're exactly the same I'll mix 'em up withouth worries, otherwise I'll reload them in different batches.

Economy: since I know the cost of factory ammo in Italy, I'll do my own calcs and let you know, I'm curious as to the exact savings I can achieve.

Scale: I tend to mistrust electronics as well. It gives you a false sense of accuracy. The signal may be distorted by many causes, and needs a regular calibration anyway. The mechanical scale is less convenient but you're sure of the result. There may be some thermal drift (I figure) or misalignments, it's easy to verify though by weighing the standards.


Well, I think we are going to have some more discussions here in the future, most happy you guys are going to support my effortsd :smt038:smt041

By the way TOF, Vithavuori appears to be a very popular powder make here in Italy as well. 
.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't know what brands of powder you will have access to over there but if they are the same as here there are some excellent links to loading data. Let me know and I'll post the links for you. The latest Lee Reloading manual has tons of load data also plus it is cheap..... somewere around $12.00 US plus shipping. I used Winchester 296 on my 357 loads and found it a very clean burning powder. I also used Bulls Eye for my 38 special wadcutter loads as it was trifty....a little went a long way:mrgreen:
Be very careful about double charging. It can be done with the Pro 1000 if you start a stroke and back up and then go again. I think there is ample warning in the instructions and on Lee's web site but I thought I'd mention it anyway. In the Lee loading manual I mentioned, he stresses over and over about being extra careful with the primers as he considers them the most dangerous part of the whole process. I only bring this up because I don't know the extent of your knowledge and I don't mean to preach to you as a know it all.....Just trying to help:smt023
We bitch about our rights to own and carry a gun being infringed upon but I imagine it's nothing compared to what you deal with.


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## mccoy (Dec 31, 2007)

gmaske,
every suggestion is always appreciated.
This is a field where safety must be king (or queen :mrgreen
As a matter of fact, I was going to open a thread on the most dangerous phases in handloading and how to make sure to avoid trouble.

I'm particularly interested in what you just told:

1) how to deal carefully with primers and how to avoid to unintentionally fire them

2) how to check for underloading and overloading.

I'm also going to check the available powder brands here and post a list of 'em.

About the availability of Winchester and vithavuori powders I'm pretty sure.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

One reason I have not used the ultra economical powders is the potential for double charging. I have found the Vihta Vuori powders to fill the case enough that you can visualy test for double/excess charges as you load the bullet. Powders that are very low volume can be difficult to see in the bottom of the case. Also I believe you get more uniform burns when the case is more towards the full side of things. The only loads I use in 9MM, .40, .38Spl. and .357 Mag that require more than 1 pound of powder per thousand are Hot .357's. I find that to be economical enough.

A properly positioned mirror can improove visibility of the powder charge.

With the Lee Pro 1000 you have to purposly recycle an already powdered case to double charge it. It will not back up on it's own. No powder can be just as dangerous ,as you might plug the barrel with a squib then fire a second one behind it and Kaboom the gun.

In terms of primer danger, I have not had any go off accidentaly although it remains a potential problem. Systems that use tubes of primers appear to be much more likely to hurt someone but be carefull anyway.


:smt1099


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