# Responseabliity of CCW



## aerospot (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm relativity new to conceal carry and have wondered where I draw a line with regard to using my firearm. My first and foremost reason was and is to protect myself and whoever is with me from imminent attack from hostile forces. But over time it has occurred to me that other scenarios may very well present themselves and how I should react to threats not directed at me. 
For example, I am in a store when I notice someone with a gun pointing it at the employee behind the cash register. I am not directly noticed or threatened by this individual (s) and have clear access to exit and depart from the situation. But should I? 
Or perhaps I witness a 'road rage' incident where vehicles have stopped and one driver brandishes a gun pointing it at the other driver. With limited information I can surmise a list of unknowns that have lead up to this event. Perhaps the person holding the gun is law enforcement and is pursuing the other driver? Or perhaps it's a drug deal gone bad and all parties are involved in hostile activities toward one another.
Perhaps I think too much and should resolve to the original purpose to carry, self protection from imminent threat to ones self of loved ones. But I cannot help but realize these other possibilities may be more likely to present them selves.


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## XD40inAVL (Feb 1, 2013)

First thing is to *KNOW *the laws of your state. Some are insane.

In Texas you can use deadly force over something as trivial as someone running away with your $400 TV. Yea, they are a scumbag, but larceny is not a capital offense. A TV ain't worth the hassle, and that's why we have insurance.

In NC deadly force can be used if you believe deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. The use of deadly force cannot be used to protect property.


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## SteamboatWillie (Jan 24, 2013)

In my personal opinion, concealed carry is for SELF defense. Inserting yourself in a situation that you come upon normally doesn't give one adequate information to make a decision about using deadly force. Too many situations can be misunderstood.

We are not law enforcement. I limit my actions to defense of myself and family. Other than that, I prefer to be a good witness and call 911. Know that, should you use deadly force, you may spend five figures in your own defense. Well worth it to protect/defend the life of you and yours, but to try and defend improperly used lethal force... not so much.

As XD40inAVL says above, know the laws of your state. In addition, learn the law regarding the elements of self defense. And finally, start reading up on the subject. I suggest starting with one of the classics on self defense with a handgun; In the Gravest Expreme by Mas Ayoob.

As you might expect, different people have widely differing views on this topic.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

aerospot said:


> I'm relativity new to conceal carry and have wondered where I draw a line with regard to using my firearm. My first and foremost reason was and is to protect myself and whoever is with me from imminent attack from hostile forces. But over time it has occurred to me that other scenarios may very well present themselves and how I should react to threats not directed at me.
> For example, I am in a store when I notice someone with a gun pointing it at the employee behind the cash register. I am not directly noticed or threatened by this individual (s) and have clear access to exit and depart from the situation. But should I?
> Or perhaps I witness a 'road rage' incident where vehicles have stopped and one driver brandishes a gun pointing it at the other driver. With limited information I can surmise a list of unknowns that have lead up to this event. Perhaps the person holding the gun is law enforcement and is pursuing the other driver? Or perhaps it's a drug deal gone bad and all parties are involved in hostile activities toward one another.
> Perhaps I think too much and should resolve to the original purpose to carry, self protection from imminent threat to ones self of loved ones. But I cannot help but realize these other possibilities may be more likely to present them selves.


In your first scenario that is your call and your call alone. In most states you can protect a third party. That being said, be careful....

In your second scenario, stay out, call 911 and be a good witness.

Over all the responsibility of carrying a gun is great. You should be an asset to society, however making the wrong call, can land you in a world of crap. I am of the belief that if we can, we should help, but before I go in guns a blazing I will know what I am participating in, or Im not going to participate. After saying all that, it is a personal choice that you will have to make.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

double post.


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## guardrail (May 23, 2010)

I conceal carry for my protection. If I can escape without danger, damn right, I'm out of there. Unless me and mine are at the business end of the BG's gun, mine stays concealed.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

There are millions of scenarios you can think up,you'll never know until one happens.

Read up on your laws and know them because you can't rely on the cops to,there are quite a few cops in my area that have differing views on a certain statute so it's always good to keep a copy in your vehicle.

Your main reason to carry is to keep breathing when the scum come knocking,if you don't think you're going to die or be in intensive care,usually you're not justified.Always remember you aren't a cop because you carry,you're just trying to survive a violent world.If defending another person,you need to be in their shoes to decide if you can help or not,but you still aren't a cop.


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## XD40inAVL (Feb 1, 2013)

Also it is important to always have the following in mind.

The cops are minutes away, often many 10's of minutes, and still may end up on the wrong street or at the wrong house.

The cops, even when they arrive have no duty to protect you or your family. They also want to go home at the end of their shift, and they cannot be faulted for that, but that also means that they don't have any skin in the fight unless the BG turns on them also. Their job is not to protect you (that needs to be said again), but will call EMS (or coroner) if you have been unsuccessful, unable, or unwilling to defend yourself and family. They will then take pictures, collect evidence, interview survivors or witnesses, and sometimes this may even lead to arresting the BG.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

Some years ago I was in a large department store and observed an armed individual with a gun pointed a cashier demanding money. I was approx 40 ft away from the gunman. I had a good vantage point and the gunman didn't see me. Having once worked at this store, I was familiar with all entry/exits. I slowly made my way into a storeroom that led to an exit at the back of the store. Once I was clear, I phoned the local PD, who responded in force. Fortunately, there were very few customers in the store and the gunman was not interested in taking on 20+ cops. What I didn't know was that there were 5 other gunman spread out in the store waiting for an armed individual to come to the rescue. Had I acted, I have no doubt that I would have been gunned down. As an armed off-duty LEO, I had a responsibility to act. The action I chose in this encounter was the correct one. Had I chosen to engage the gunman, it is very likely that lives could have been lost, including mine. 

These are the things that must be in your mind if you are carrying a concealed firearm. No one can be prepared for all scenarios, but you must use your head and choose the safest course of action. Unfortunately, the majority of CCW holders never receive enough proper training to help them make the right decision. Everyone is in a hurry to get a CCW, but train, practice and have the proper mind set.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

hud35500 said:


> Some years ago I was in a large department store and observed an armed individual with a gun pointed a cashier demanding money. I was approx 40 ft away from the gunman. I had a good vantage point and the gunman didn't see me. Having once worked at this store, I was familiar with all entry/exits. I slowly made my way into a storeroom that led to an exit at the back of the store. Once I was clear, I phoned the local PD, who responded in force. Fortunately, there were very few customers in the store and the gunman was not interested in taking on 20+ cops. What I didn't know was that there were 5 other gunman spread out in the store waiting for an armed individual to come to the rescue. Had I acted, I have no doubt that I would have been gunned down. As an armed off-duty LEO, I had a responsibility to act. The action I chose in this encounter was the correct one. Had I chosen to engage the gunman, it is very likely that lives could have been lost, including mine.
> 
> These are the things that must be in your mind if you are carrying a concealed firearm. No one can be prepared for all scenarios, but you must use your head and choose the safest course of action. Unfortunately, the majority of CCW holders never receive enough proper training to help them make the right decision. Everyone is in a hurry to get a CCW, but train, practice and have the proper mind set.


Thanks for sharing, Always watch your flank. Absolutely the armed robber could be well prepared. As a rule I always put myself as the inferior figure in a situation.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

hud35500 said:


> Some years ago I was in a large department store and observed an armed individual with a gun pointed a cashier demanding money. I was approx 40 ft away from the gunman. I had a good vantage point and the gunman didn't see me. Having once worked at this store, I was familiar with all entry/exits. I slowly made my way into a storeroom that led to an exit at the back of the store. Once I was clear, I phoned the local PD, who responded in force. Fortunately, there were very few customers in the store and the gunman was not interested in taking on 20+ cops. What I didn't know was that there were 5 other gunman spread out in the store waiting for an armed individual to come to the rescue. Had I acted, I have no doubt that I would have been gunned down. As an armed off-duty LEO, I had a responsibility to act. The action I chose in this encounter was the correct one. Had I chosen to engage the gunman, it is very likely that lives could have been lost, including mine.
> 
> These are the things that must be in your mind if you are carrying a concealed firearm. No one can be prepared for all scenarios, but you must use your head and choose the safest course of action. Unfortunately, the majority of CCW holders never receive enough proper training to help them make the right decision. Everyone is in a hurry to get a CCW, but train, practice and have the proper mind set.


You have made an excellent point with your real world example in your post. One that I would bet, few think of when painting "what if" scenarios on websites. In my opinion, you have done all here a real service with this post.

I would echo what post #2 above said: know your state's laws.


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