# Any plumbers or like minded plumbers on here?



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I have a plumbing question. The house we are looking to buy is on city water and city sewer. The house has a sewer evacuation pump down in the basement foundation. You enter this area by a good-sized exterior door.

The seller had some problems with it in Dec. of 2018. The "sump pump" as it's called in the full disclosure statement, said that it was replaced at a cost of over $8K and all problems were mitigated.

My question is........is the sewer evacuation pump also known as a sump pump? When initially looking at the house, I did open that exterior access door and peer inside. The pump in question is quite large. I'd say close to that of a 55 gal. drum, if not larger. It has some very large diameter pipes coming from it.

We've never owned a house with any kind of a sump pump, let alone a septic evacuation pump. I suppose cause this house sits on a hillside, it needs a pump to get rid of the sewer waste, where as other homes can get by with a gravity flow.

It also has some sort or kind of an alarm system on it.

Can anyone elaborate some on this system I speak of? I'd like to be better educated on this system and how it works. We are meeting an inspector tomorrow and I do plan to ask him about it. I'd like to come off as knowing something about it.

TIA!!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> I have a plumbing question. The house we are looking to buy is on city water and city sewer. The house has a sewer evacuation pump down in the basement foundation. You enter this area by a good-sized exterior door.
> 
> The seller had some problems with it in Dec. of 2018. The "sump pump" as it's called in the full disclosure statement, said that it was replaced at a cost of over $8K and all problems were mitigated.
> 
> ...


As far as I know a sewer evacuation pump is for homes with a bathroom that's located below the main sewer line. If the problem was resolved especially as recent as last year I doubt you'll have any problems with it. Obviously it would need some type of alarm system to warn you if the system is not working properly so you can resolve it before you get any sewage backing up into your home.

The pump itself is usually located at the bottom of the 55 gallon drum. The reason why it's that large is because if the system is not working it will take more than 55 gallons of sewage/water before it leaks out into your home. Once the water gets to a certain level the pump will go on. We used to have a sump pump in our first home that operated the same way only it was to prevent water from getting into the house as the house was on a slope. The biggest issue is if you have a power outage. In that case you'll need a battery back up system. At $8K my guess is that it already has one?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for your reply. I'm learning as much as I can, as fast as I can. Sounds like I might need to actually go into that space and look everything over really good. If for nothing else, just to familiarize myself with what's in there. 

I did call a local elec. / plumbing company and spoke to a female who knows a lot about the system. She says that they do have a list of home owners that have similar systems and recommends an annual check-up and inspection. The cost runs about $150.00 or so. 

She went on to say that she doesn't know of anyone that has a dedicated generator for the system in question in case of a power outage. 

I will definitely see if it does have a battery back-up though.


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## W1bowo (Aug 25, 2019)

paratrooper said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'm learning as much as I can, as fast as I can. Sounds like I might need to actually go into that space and look everything over really good. If for nothing else, just to familiarize myself with what's in there.
> 
> I did call a local elec. / plumbing company and spoke to a female who knows a lot about the system. She says that they do have a list of home owners that have similar systems and recommends an annual check-up and inspection. The cost runs about $150.00 or so.
> 
> ...


+1


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I was told that the actual correct term for the system in question is called a _Sewage Grinder Ejector Pump. _

In my initial post, I said that the pump looked quite large. I should have said that the holding tank looked to be quite large.

I have no clue as to how large the actual pump motor is.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'm learning as much as I can, as fast as I can. Sounds like I might need to actually go into that space and look everything over really good. If for nothing else, just to familiarize myself with what's in there.
> 
> I did call a local elec. / plumbing company and spoke to a female who knows a lot about the system. She says that they do have a list of home owners that have similar systems and recommends an annual check-up and inspection. The cost runs about $150.00 or so.
> 
> ...


You're welcome!

I'm not sure, but I don't think you'll need a generator? I believe it works off of a rechargeable battery as with any other rechargeable battery. You just leave the batteries on charge and in the event of a power failure the pump will kick in when needed. It's not like the unit will be running continuously. I'd imagine that you'd get quite a few cycles from one charged battery before it goes dead. The power should be well on before then.

I don't think that you'll have to pay someone $150 to do an annual inspection. You can probably do it yourself? There's really not much to it. Rarely did our sump pump come on, only after an unusually heavy rain storm. To check it all we had to do was pour about 5 gallons of water into it's receptacle and wait for the pump to come on. We didn't have a battery back up though.

To check a system with a battery back up you'll probably have to unplug the pump from its outlet and then flush the toilet to see if it's working. Obviously when it's plugged into your electrical outlet and you're using the bathroom you'll know if it's working or not. I would think that the only other thing that you'll have to check are the batteries? You can do that with a volt meter. I'd imagine that it's got a check valve to prevent sewage from coming into the home too, both from your upstairs bathrooms and the main sewer line? You might have to check that as well. All things that you should ask whoever is inspecting the system.

Indeed the pump does grind up the sewage, probably to prevent wear and tear on the pump thus making it easier to pump out the sewage.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

There's a good chance that this septic pump system only services the lower level of the house. That's what I hoping for.

If that's the case, I feel much better about it. That would be a big load (no pun intended) off my mind. We are meeting an inspector tomorrow for a shorter, follow up inspection. I'm hoping he will know enough to answer my questions.

I'm going to ask my step-son to contact the listing agent and have him ask the seller who installed the system.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

If you follow the discharge piping from the pump, (the one with the check valve and shutoff valve) it should go up and dump into the larger (3" or 4") pipe that serves the first floor.
If it does not, then the sump pump may be carrying the load for the whole house. This is very unlikely.
A couple of pictures would solve this in a moment.

GW


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Goldwing said:


> If you follow the discharge piping from the pump, (the one with the check valve and shutoff valve) it should go up and dump into the larger (3" or 4") pipe that serves the first floor.
> If it does not, then the sump pump may be carrying the load for the whole house. This is very unlikely.
> A couple of pictures would solve this in a moment.
> 
> GW


Good information to know. I do plan on taking some pictures, but I might wait until my step-son returns from Hawaii. He's our real estate agent.

He and his wife are due back late this coming Saturday.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Unless you really love the house, I would pass on it. Anything below sewer grade having to be pumped out will eventually wear out and cause you a problem. Just my personal opinion, but it is a potential problem waiting to happen for many reasons. Failure of the pump, loss of electricity, etc. I don’t think any pump the size required to pump sewage would operate on a battery backup, at least not for very long unless it was a pretty big battery system.

My guess is this bathroom was added after original construction at some time because the owners wanted an additional bathroom. Maybe they added a suite in the basement and needed one there? At any rate, it likely only serves the toilet on that level, or toilet and shower/tub, all of the waste needing to be pumped up to the sewer lateral level. If it serves the entire house, then there are more things to be concerned with, like why was the house built so far below sewer grade, etc. Those systems work, it’s just that there are more things to fail than in a straight gravity drain system. I guess it’s not a deal breaker but it is another mechanical system that will need maintenance and eventual replacement. Gravity doesn’t wear out.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

RK3369 said:


> Unless you really love the house, I would pass on it. Anything below sewer grade having to be pumped out will eventually wear out and cause you a problem. Just my personal opinion, but it is a potential problem waiting to happen for many reasons. Failure of the pump, loss of electricity, etc. I don't think any pump the size required to pump sewage would operate on a battery backup, at least not for very long unless it was a pretty big battery system.
> 
> My guess is this bathroom was added after original construction at some time because the owners wanted an additional bathroom. Maybe they added a suite in the basement and needed one there? At any rate, it likely only serves the toilet on that level, or toilet and shower/tub, all of the waste needing to be pumped up to the sewer lateral level. If it serves the entire house, then there are more things to be concerned with, like why was the house built so far below sewer grade, etc. Those systems work, it's just that there are more things to fail than in a straight gravity drain system. I guess it's not a deal breaker but it is another mechanical system that will need maintenance and eventual replacement. Gravity doesn't wear out.


My wife confirmed, two bathrooms downstairs. Four of the five bedrooms have their own bathroom.

It will be just me and my wife in the home. Her sewing room will be downstairs. Only she will use it's bathroom, and she knows what is and what isn't appropriate to flush.

The house's location is great. It's at the end of a small cul-de-sac, and the street leading to it, is a dead end. That means no traffic, other than the locals.

It also has a 50+ mile view. It's nothing short of spectacular. The whole back side of the house has it.

My wife is crazy about this place. Plenty of privacy, yet close enough to get to where you want to go.

I'm not all that crazy about this waste water pumping system. But, it is what it is. I figure the more I know about it, the better off we'll be. Even paying an annual fee to have it checked and serviced won't be too bad. If that even turns out to be necessary........


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm not really sure, but I would physically have someone fill up a couple bathtubs , flush a few toilets, run a few sinks, and release the flow all together at once. 
Hear this apparatus in action, is it loud? Does all the discharge water enter this system?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> I'm not really sure, but I would physically have someone fill up a couple bathtubs , flush a few toilets, run a few sinks, and release the flow all together at once.
> Hear this apparatus in action, is it loud? Does all the discharge water enter this system?


That's what I hope to find out tomorrow. I'm hoping that only the lower level is serviced by this waste water system. If that is true, then I will feel much better.

No idea as to how loud it is. No matter though, cause if it is loud, you shouldn't be able to hear it, due to it's remote location.

I plan on possibly taking some pictures of it tomorrow. If not tomorrow, then within a few days. I will enter the foundation of the house via an exterior access door and nose around some. It's quite roomy and dark in there. Some places, it's easily 10' tall. Other places, it's get on your hand and knees tall.

I also want to verify it's back-up source of power, if it has any at all. I'm bound and determined to learn as much as I can about ti.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

The pump itself should not make much noise during operation if it is in good condition. However, when the liquid level in the sump allows the float switch to sink to the power off position and the pump stops, the liquid that the pump was lifting will reverse direction with gravity and slam the check valve closed. This will make a very noticeable "clunk" sound as the check valve closes and the +- gallon of water (based on a 2" pipe and 72" of lift) hits it.
You will have to be sure that your toilets are in good shape as far as fill and flush valves go so there is not water flowing unless you are using them. Dripping faucets are also bad.
Whoever "earned" $8K to replace a sanitary sump pump should be in jail. Hell, I could fly in with my tools and do it for less than half of that.

GW


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Keep your house, buy a vacation home. Lol


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> That's what I hope to find out tomorrow. I'm hoping that only the lower level is serviced by this waste water system. If that is true, then I will feel much better.
> 
> No idea as to how loud it is. No matter though, cause if it is loud, you shouldn't be able to hear it, due to it's remote location.
> 
> ...


Although I can't say for sure but I don't think that the building code would allow for the main bathrooms to be below the sewer line? Probably because it's more of a safety issue regarding sewer gases leaking into the house if the pumping system failed. But that's just a guess on my part. The secondary ones they might make exceptions for as they probably don't get used that much. That's something that you should look into. If they were put in illegally that's a whole different issue altogether. It would then be up to the current home owner to bring the house up to code before it can even be sold. But that wouldn't be your problem.

I had a neighbor that never got a building permit for anything. When it came time to sell it cost him a small fortune bringing everything up to code. In some places I believe that you can be fined for that as well?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

We're also having a roofing company go out and inspect the roof. It has concrete tiles. I think he'll be doing that today as a matter-of-fact. 

It's the same company that is re-roofing our house right now. Our's has your typical asphalt shingles. 

We'll be leaving here in less than an hour to go meet the inspector at the other house. We have a list of questions and/or concerns to be addressed. 

Gotta admit, all this stuff going on is anxiety producing for me. I hate to move. But, this will be the last time.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

You are in Arizona, be very careful lol


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> You are in Arizona, be very careful lol


Yeah, there are a lot of places out here where anything goes.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> We're also having a roofing company go out and inspect the roof. It has concrete tiles. I think he'll be doing that today as a matter-of-fact.
> 
> It's the same company that is re-roofing our house right now. Our's has your typical asphalt shingles.
> 
> ...


But it sounds like you'll be getting something that's nicer than what you already have. It will probably all work out in the end. If there are any code violations they will have to fix it or it can't be sold. If anything else not code related turns up the owner will have to fix it or reduce their asking price when you negotiate a deal. I've only sold a house and moved once, that's it. Other than a few minor issues everything went well.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

We went back to the house and met up with the inspector. We went into the access space that houses the sewage grinder ejector pump. I took some pics.

The inspector thinks that both levels of the house are served by the system. It does not have a battery back-up system to power it in case of a power outage.

The $8200.00 I spoke of earlier, was the total for an insurance claim that included the sewage system. I don't have any idea as to what exactly all that was included. I was mistaken to think that it was for the sole repair or replacement of the system itself.

There are two large pipes coming out of the holding tank which appears to be at least 100 gallons or so. Both pipes have a check valve and an open / close valve.

I hope that these pics will be sufficient enough to determine whether or not both levels of the house are served by this system. We plan to go back this weekend and I can take more pics if needed.

Here are the pics:


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> We went back to the house and met up with the inspector. We went into the access space that houses the sewage grinder ejector pump. I took some pics.
> 
> The inspector thinks that both levels of the house are served by the system. It does not have a battery back-up system to power it in case of a power outage.
> 
> ...


I don't know, if that system serves both levels of the house I'd avoid that home like the plague. Especially if it had failed once before to the tune of $8,200 in damages. Gravity is a hell of a lot more dependable, does not require electricity and has fewer moving parts to go wrong. If it only served the basement level it would be no big deal. You'd still have use of all the other bathrooms. If that thing breaks down you'd be sh*t outta' luck until you could get it fixed. Not to mention having raw sewage in your house. I'm really surprised that it doesn't at least have a battery back up system? And I'm even more surprised that it meets the building code? I've never heard of a house being built where the main sewer line is higher than the home's waste outlet?

Of course I don't claim to be an expert on these things. Our old sump pump kinda' worked the same way but was less complicated. It was a pedestal type with the impeller sitting in a 5 gallon sized container with holes drilled in it. It had one outlet pipe. Occasionally when there was a heavy rain storm the water would come in through those holes and start to fill the container. When the level got so far up the float would rise and turn the pump on. But then again I was dealing with rain water and not sewage.

Anyway that's my two cents for what it's worth.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

When we go back this weekend, we plan on introducing ourselves to the neighbors. Their house is also on a hillside. 

The community was having a garage sale this Friday and thru the weekend. Some neighbors did come over to meet us, but I was busy with the inspector, so my wife spoke briefly to them. She told them we'd be back and we'd come over to meet them then. 

Another oddity. There was a clean-out access cap in front of the house, not too very far from the front door. No idea why there would be a septic tank. Unless......it was an old one and it was discontinued once city sewer became available. 

Our house was originally on a septic tank. So many years ago, we got city sewer and the tank was filled in with sand. The clean-out cap though, is still exposed. 

I'm hoping to still find out more once my step-son returns home and he can put all this on the listing agent.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> When we go back this weekend, we plan on introducing ourselves to the neighbors. Their house is also on a hillside.
> 
> The community was having a garage sale this Friday and thru the weekend. Some neighbors did come over to meet us, but I was busy with the inspector, so my wife spoke briefly to them. She told them we'd be back and we'd come over to meet them then.
> 
> ...


It appears to be a duplex pump setup. the two larger pipes coming from the top of the tank are pump discharge pipes, the third smaller one on top is the vent. 
The two lines that enter the tank on the side are gravity feed waste lines. 
The clean-out cap in the front yard is most likely the sewer line clean-out going out to the city sewer.
I would be very interested in pics of the point where the two pump lines connect with the line that runs out to the street. That is probably just inside the wall that the outside clean-out is located on.

GW


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

One other thing to check on is your homeowner insurance carrier. Show him/her those pictures and ask about rate differences.

GW


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks GW for the replies. I will take some more pics the next time we go over.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Hearing the volume of noise would be my only real concern.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Take a picture of the model number , usually an attached plate. Get the owners manual offline. 
Looks like a powerful enough unit
A pump system with an out side cleanout sounds great. 

Gravity has it's issues also, at 1/4 inch per ft slope. 
1/4 inch is usually code on drain lines. 

Had to snake my outgoing pipe a few times. 

Anything more then 1/4 inch slope , the sewage has a greater chance of separating from the liquid flow in a gravity line. 

The noise ,, the unit can always be boxed in with insulation. 
The noise I was referring to earlier was any reverberating noise feed back through the pipes.

The cleanout is probably steel pipe also.


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