# .45ACP velocities



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

We all know it...the .45 auto is big and wide. It's also slow. This isn't a question asking which brand to use, but more along the lines of using a weight that still produces a decent velocity.

I believe most .45ACP loads are tested out of 4.5-5" barrels. Mine is a 3". Speer offers them in 185gr, 200gr, 230gr, and 230gr short-barrel loads. My concern is not which produces the least amount of recoil (which is a factor, but not the topic at hand), but which would be a better load than the rest. The 185gr will obviously have the highest velocity, but at 185 grains, it's barely heavier than a 180gr .40S&W. The 230gr gets very good ballistic ratings, however it's going so slow out of a 3" barrel that I'm wondering if it's going fast enough to be effective. I've read that a .45ACP bullet needs to hit its target at 850fps, take or give a bit, to be fairly effective.

Also, what makes the short-barrel 230gr different from a standard 230gr? I posed this question in a previous thread and the only answer I recall getting is "the SB is tested out of a shorter barrel." Even if that's the case, it doesn't make it any different from a non-SB cartridge. I guess I could give Speer a call and ask them what makes a SB bullet a SB bullet, but I imagine someone on here could give me a pretty accurate answer. In regards to the effective velocity issue, the best educated guess I could give is that the SB is loaded hotter, so it can reach an effective velocity out of a shorter barrel.

This isn't about finding the golden bullet. A .45ACP packs a punch, even if it's going 500fps. However, if a certain velocity needs to be reached for it to reach sufficient penetration depths and/or properly expand upon impact, then I should pick a load that reaches that velocity.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Purely and educated guess:

The "short barreled" version may be a 230gr bullet designed to fully expand at a lower velocity.

If used in a longer barreled gun, the bullet may not perform optimally, as a standard bullet may not perform as well in a 3" gun.

Either way... A 9mm bullet MAY expand to .45 inches, but a .45 bullet will never shrink...

It is politically incorrect for sure... but there are a lot of guys carrying hardball in short barrled .45s just for this reason. At lower velocities, 2 holes are better than one, and nothing penetrates like a FMJ. Simply put, a low velocity .45 FMJ often penetrates like a mushrooming high velocity 9mm. But is much more "stable"... AND functions better in everything...

JW


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

John M. Browning designed the .45 ACP full metal jacket "hardball" cartridge for the 1911 pistol. This is a 230 grain jacketed round nose bullet loaded to a muzzle velocity of 850 fps which served as the military issue load throughout the 75-year tenure of the 1911 as the standard issue firearm for the U.S. armed services. It remains the favorite for reliability and accuracy. 

There are a number of good loads for personal defense. Among the best are the Federal 230g HydraShok, the Remington 230g Golden Sabre, and the Winchester 230g SXT. Regardless of the load you select, you will get better reliability from JHP cartridges which are close in shape to the original 230g hardball cartridge. All modern 1911s will have throated barrels to accept the flatter nosed JHP.

The only 'SB' loads I've seen are Speer GDSB. Speer Gold Dot SBs have modified bullet designs that "expand better at the reduced velocities of SB pistols w/o sacrificing tactical penetration."


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Man I love this forum. You learn something new every day.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Most all test data I've seen is from a std. 5" barrel. When I finally get around to buying a chronograph I plan on doing a little studying on the effects of diffrent powders on short barreled guns. I'm thinking that a max load of medium burning powder in a short barrel is a waste of powder. My thinking is the shorter the barrel the faster the powder burn needs to be. You might get better cronograph numbers from a powder like Bullseye than AA#5 in a 3" 1911 which really has only 2" of barrel. The last inch being the chamber.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I was browsing Para Warthog reviews and found the following:



> RE: 3" barrel rec. ammo:
> 
> In testing with 4 layers of 14oz denim and calibrated 10% gelatin the only loads to expand and not over penetrate the 18.5" gelatin blocks when fired from the 3" Springfield 45acp test pistol were the following:
> 
> ...


I wish I had calibrated gelatin and could do my own testing, but I don't.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I was browsing Para Warthog reviews and found the following:


Overpenetration/expansion failure data interesting. Shot from what distance? What was used as a backstop to catch bullets? Were bullet cavities plugged by cloth or clean?

Also curious why so many +P rounds had low penetration where all standard loads, excepting the 165gr bullet, overpenetrated.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

My guess is the +P ammunition had sufficient velocity/energy to expand upon impact, whereas the standard pressure did not, which of course, would lead to overpenetration as the bullet did not expand. It didn't state what distance or backstop was used, nor did it comment on bullet cavities being plugged or not. Also, bullet design must have been a factor as some 185gr +P and 230gr +P bullets expanded, and some did not.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Found this article...pretty interesting: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/jh_45acp.htm

Another one has a lot of info: http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html

According to the table for the 3" Kimber, heavier bullets provided better penetration. This testing was done at 20 feet (6.66 yards).

Also found this one: http://www.brassfetcher.com/Various .45ACP JHPs (test 1).html


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Looking at your data again, I'm really surprised that the 145gr Glaser rounds (blue and silver) both overpenetrated and "failed to expand."

Glaser safety slugs are frangible rounds designed to to disintegrate into tiny particles upon impact to minimize their penetration for reasons of range safety, to limit environmental impact, or to limit the danger behind the intended target. Supposedly these are OK to use inside pressurized aircraft.

According to the manufacturer:


> Glaser Blue penetrates five to seven inches in International Ballistic Wound Association protocol testing, while silver penetrates eight to ten inches in the IWBA testing protocol.


http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm

Either there is a major defect with Glasers, or more reason to question the data.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I didn't even notice the Glaser Blues. That data has to be completely flawed if it had safety slugs that are designed to and proven to underpenetrate and fragment into tiny pieces (small #12 shot I believe) overpenetrating a 18.5" gelatin block.

The major problem with any ballistics testing is consistency. Only shooting one or two rounds of a particular load sometimes won't give you accurate data.


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## forestranger (Jan 20, 2008)

Don't have a 3" 45 but in chronographing and denim/terrycloth covered wetpack have noticed tendency for same jhp rd to expand less and penetrate significantly more out of 3" than from 4"& 4 1/2" barrel in 9mm.


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