# Is "cowboy" ammo effective as self defense?



## SwampDonkey (Sep 2, 2020)

Hi All,

I bought some .38 special "cowboy" ammo a while back and it shoots good and has a low recoil and lower noise. I was wondering how effective it might be for defense, mainly against predators since I am fairly remote. I set two good quality 2x10s up back to back and fired into them and it went through the first one and embedded about half way into the second one. Do you think this is powerful enough to use for defense? Thanks in advance.


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## Budlight_909 (Aug 31, 2020)

well, if it can go thru solid wood....

i'd highly suspect it can go thru soft human tissue.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Some Cowboy action ammo would be. 38 Special is marginal in modern full load.
I wouldn't trust it for the job.
YMMV.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Nor I, but a well placed shot between the eyes is probably easier to penetrate than a couple 2x10’s. On most offenders, that skull section isn’t quite as thick as 2 x10’s. In a pinch, I’d go for it.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

What kind of predators we talking about? Black Hills 158 grn flat nose at 800 FPS is something I wouldn't want to get hit with. Something like getting hit with standard hardball .45 acp, maybe better than hardball due to the flat nose og the 158 grn.


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## SwampDonkey (Sep 2, 2020)

The only thing I know is that it is 125 gr. TCFP. We have coyotes and black bears. I'm just curious how 2" lumber compares to animal bone/tissue.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

SwampDonkey said:


> The only thing I know is that it is 125 gr. TCFP. We have coyotes and black bears. I'm just curious how 2" lumber compares to animal bone/tissue.


Coyotes, no problem. They are thin skinned, light boned animals.
Black bears? I would suggest something more heavy in a hard cast TC or wad cutter at the least.
If you tangle with either, you are doing something in the stellar stupid category, or need to buy a lottery ticket.
The lumber experiment will give you nothing for an idea of tissue penetration. These things can be very odd. I have a 22 cal pellet rifle that shoots 850-900 FPS and will punch a 2x6 very handily. Not sure I would want to rely on it for a coyote, and certain I wouldn't for a Black Bear.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SwampDonkey said:


> The only thing I know is that it is 125 gr. TCFP. We have coyotes and black bears. I'm just curious how 2" lumber compares to animal bone/tissue.


If the bear is on you and all you have is down loaded .38 you had better save a round for yourself to avoid needless suffering.

GW


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Get ya a shotgun and load it with _Brenneke_ 3' Black Magic Magnums, all you need and then some.


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Cowboy loads are great for training new shooters. I ordered some 105 grain/650 fps 38 Special rounds just for that. But the energy is about like a .22 LR. so bullet placement is very critical. I carry Federal HST Micro 38 Special +P.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Babbalou1956 said:


> Cowboy loads are great for training new shooters. I ordered some 105 grain/650 fps 38 Special rounds just for that. But the energy is about like a .22 LR. so bullet placement is very critical. I carry Federal HST Micro 38 Special +P.


.38SP is a legendary round. For it's time, I'm not sure it was even all that and a bag of chips. It was better than most of the service calibers of the day, and they were very limited, mostly Black Powder carry overs, with little to offer for a man in need.
Ever wonder why 45 colt, 44-40, and the like were so popular for the time frame?
This ain't 1930, and many of the old school bad guys didn't care if they were shot, because they knew the injury would likely be non life threatening. The 38 SP was the first of the "new" age calibers with any scare factor to it, and it wasn't much.


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## SavvyJack (Feb 15, 2018)

LostinTexas said:


> .38SP is a legendary round. For it's time, I'm not sure it was even all that and a bag of chips. It was better than most of the service calibers of the day, and they were very limited, mostly Black Powder carry overs, with little to offer for a man in need.
> Ever wonder why 45 colt, 44-40, and the like were so popular for the time frame?
> This ain't 1930, and many of the old school bad guys didn't care if they were shot, because they knew the injury would likely be non life threatening. The 38 SP was the first of the "new" age calibers with any scare factor to it, and it wasn't much.


Your joking right?

Typically from a revolver your looking at 950fps for the 200gr 44-40 and just over 1,000fps for the 45 Colt 255gr for original black powder loads. These loads are like the black powder loads of today.









Chasing the 44-40 - Ballistics & Handloading


Introduction Before handloading for this great cartridge, the hand loader must understand several things. I am a firm believer that Starline Brass is by far superior than other brands for the 44-40. Starline's construction is between the thicker Remington brass and thinner Winchester brass, making




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However, using reduced recoil "Cowboy" loads (Mouse Farts) should be kept to belly to belly fighting, or just used on steel targets.


From a rifle.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

No, I'm not joking, and you aren't reading.


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## Cypher (May 17, 2017)

Ask this guy.

This is Davis Tutt. His one claim to fame was being killed by James Butler Hickok in a gun duel in Springfield Missouri on July 21 1865. 

Hickok fired one shot from his .36 Caliber Navy Colt and hit Tutt between the 5th & 6th rib at 75 yards. 

When he was hit Tutt cried out "I'm killed boys." and dropped dead in the street.

ETA: it's worth mentioning that Hickok steadied his pistol with his off hand and took time to aim before firing.


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