# 380 carry for the wife



## Audioi (Oct 26, 2014)

My wife is looking for something tiny to carry, she has a G43 and XDS3.3 but needs something smaller to fit her 105 lb frame. She picked up a Kimber Micro carry and liked it but I have read a few bad reviews, I am thinking a P238? What would you recommend?


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Audioi said:


> My wife is looking for something tiny to carry, she has a G43 and XDS3.3 but needs something smaller to fit her 105 lb frame. She picked up a Kimber Micro carry and liked it but I have read a few bad reviews, I am thinking a P238? What would you recommend?


All these micro size pistols are just plain hard to shoot well, but we all, including me, seem to desire them. We hope we can find that one which we can carry without really knowing it's there and yet be able to pull and use it in need like our favorite plinker. Well, it just ain't gonna happen, in my humble opinion. These little things make it a chore to practice, break in, and get good with. None are really comfortable to shoot. Like the Spanish trying to find the Fountain of Youth, I have been trying to find a comfortable mouse gun, and I just don't believe one exists. I think it's plain old physics which gets in the way. Sure, I can shoot a mag or two or even three without throwing it down in anger, but I can't shoot enough at a time to be called real training. Trying to get 300-500 rounds through one to break it in and to become a pretty good shot can try your nerves and your fingers. It's more work than pleasure especially when working out with warmer, heavier practice loads to match your carry load; so you can be ready.

I love 1911 type platforms, but I really don't think it's the way to go for a pocket sized mouse gun like what you're considering. Often with smaller guns, things are tighter and stiffer. Just racking the slide is a bit harder with less to grab onto. It also has to be reliable and always feed that short 380 in hollow point. The sight radius will be short and the sights are often small, then you want to add the need to sweep a small safety lever?

After trying and owning a plethora of these small guns, I settled on the new Ruger LCP II. For me, price was no object, and I did not settle on it because it's less than half the price of what you're considering. I chose it because it ticked all the check boxes I chose to be valid for a tiny pocket pistol. If you're interested, I put up a Range Report and mini review of this weapon yesterday in the Range Report forum on this site. Please don't dismiss it because it has the same name of the older LCP. This new generation is an entirely different gun. While the old model was double action only, this new one is single action only. A big difference. Brand new at the store, it won't be at its best. Clean, grease and put half a box of ammo through it and it's night and day.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

My wife likes shooting my P238... as do I. Great gun with real sights and a slide that's very easy to manipulate.







Safety is rock solid & will disengage when appropriate force is used as it is the perfect size. Unlike every other micro pistol I've tried, I can shoot this one all day at a range session without the palm sting felt by most other micro pistols & snubby revolvers. It is all metal which adds a little weight and eases felt recoil.









Getting good groups at realistic ranges (for this type of pistol) is easy for both myself & my wife. My Copperhead model has Sig's night sights which are great... it's a Sig after all. Her friends that have tried it like it as well. I would definitely recommend getting the extended mag which will add to capacity and make the gun easier to grip properly without adding too much size.









As to the Kimber... they are beautiful, but some can be very finicky when it comes to cycling ammo reliably as they tend to like only certain ammo types and don't feed reliably with what ever you have on hand or can find at the store. Some trial and error will be needed to find a round that will feed reliably.


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## Audioi (Oct 26, 2014)

Craigh said:


> All these micro size pistols are just plain hard to shoot well, but we all, including me, seem to desire them. We hope we can find that one which we can carry without really knowing it's there and yet be able to pull and use it in need like our favorite plinker. Well, it just ain't gonna happen, in my humble opinion. These little things make it a chore to practice, break in, and get good with. None are really comfortable to shoot. Like the Spanish trying to find the Fountain of Youth, I have been trying to find a comfortable mouse gun, and I just don't believe one exists. I think it's plain old physics which gets in the way. Sure, I can shoot a mag or two or even three without throwing it down in anger, but I can't shoot enough at a time to be called real training. Trying to get 300-500 rounds through one to break it in and to become a pretty good shot can try your nerves and your fingers. It's more work than pleasure especially when working out with warmer, heavier practice loads to match your carry load; so you can be ready.
> 
> I love 1911 type platforms, but I really don't think it's the way to go for a pocket sized mouse gun like what you're considering. Often with smaller guns, things are tighter and stiffer. Just racking the slide is a bit harder with less to grab onto. It also has to be reliable and always feed that short 380 in hollow point. The sight radius will be short and the sights are often small, then you want to add the need to sweep a small safety lever?
> 
> After trying and owning a plethora of these small guns, I settled on the new Ruger LCP II. For me, price was no object, and I did not settle on it because it's less than half the price of what you're considering. I chose it because it ticked all the check boxes I chose to be valid for a tiny pocket pistol. If you're interested, I put up a Range Report and mini review of this weapon yesterday in the Range Report forum on this site. Please don't dismiss it because it has the same name of the older LCP. This new generation is an entirely different gun. While the old model was double action only, this new one is single action only. A big difference. Brand new at the store, it won't be at its best. Clean, grease and put half a box of ammo through it and it's night and day.


Craigh,
I must admit they do feel like a tonka toy to me also but she still wants one for times when the bigger pieces will just not work. Funny you mention the LCP2 as thats where we started until she saw the 1911! I think the beauty of the Kimber caught her eye so after that I mentioned the P238.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Audioi said:


> My wife is looking for something tiny to carry, she has a G43 and XDS3.3 but needs something smaller to fit her 105 lb frame. She picked up a Kimber Micro carry and liked it but I have read a few bad reviews, I am thinking a P238? What would you recommend?


You might want to consider the Remington RM380. It's a DAO so there's no thumb safety to contend with it's about the same size as the Kimber Micro Carry and P238. It has an all aluminum frame, stainless steel slide and barrel. In my opinion it's one of the best 380's on the market for pocket carry and or deep concealment. It is a very close carbon copy of the Rohrbaugh 380 at about one third the price. For obvious reasons I'm not too crazy about carrying a single action semi auto in condition one (cocked and locked) in a pocket.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Echoing Craig, I gotta note that if your wife wants to carry a mini-pistol for self-protection, she's gonna have to practice a whole lot with it.
She's gotta get used to its recoil characteristics and handling difficulties before the fight ever begins.

My wife chose a Kel-Tec P-3AT (.380) as her own carry gun.
First, she learned to shoot a pistol using a full-size gun.
When she was good at it, she tried every carry gun we owned at the time. None was exactly what she wanted.
But one day I bought the Kel-Tec for myself, as a backup pocket pistol, and she latched onto it and has never let go.

Be aware that if she's gonna use a .380 for self protection, she's got to become very short-range accurate with it.
Shooting a cartridge that low in power means that _hit placement is the most important issue_.
Being accurate very quickly also helps a lot.

Practice, practice, practice!


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## Audioi (Oct 26, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Echoing Craig, I gotta note that if your wife wants to carry a mini-pistol for self-protection, she's gonna have to practice a whole lot with it.
> She's gotta get used to its recoil characteristics and handling difficulties before the fight ever begins.
> 
> My wife chose a Kel-Tec P-3AT (.380) as her own carry gun.
> ...


I wish I could shoot as good as she can and as I mentioned it's for the times that the 9mm won't fit.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Yeah. I know.
When my wife keeps her practice up, she can out-shoot me now too.
But she gets complacent, and doesn't practice for weeks at a time.
And then she wonders where her skill has gone.

If she's gonna use a mini-pistol, she's gotta keep her practice up.
It's not the same as shooting a full-size gun.


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## pearsol (Dec 31, 2015)

+1 for the Sig p238 for your wife. It gives nice recoil control with it's metal frame. Is very reliable and feels good in the hands.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

heheheh, my gal, Jan, outshoots me sometimes too. A lot of the time, especially when my health has taxed me like now. But, I do shoot better than she does with a tiny pocket pistol and for the exact same reasons Steve has stated. She just is not willing to put in the regular practice and training these small guns require in order to make them valid carry options, in my opinion. Why? Because at 68 years of age, 110 lbs. dripping wet, and 5'2" with small hands, practicing with these genre of handguns is just not fun for her. It's work and shooting is not something she really enjoys anyway. She'd rather be attending her book club or a concert.

We've all read the reports which seems to suggest that individuals in home invasion and personal defense situations only get hits somewhere on the perpetrator 1 out of 10 times, if that. Moreover, the percentages don't seem to get much better with people, like me, who consider themselves not too bad at paper targets at the range or precision shooting. We still miss most shots when under all that stress. I mention this to emphasize the need to stack the deck as much as possible against that day which hopefully will never happen and you hear your back door being forced and your electric lines are cut. By stacking the deck, I mean things like extra weapons and magazines. I mean a flashlight close by and a previously made and practiced plan of action. I mean a gun which you can shoot well both fast up close as well as with careful precision at some distance. A gun with no safety.

We also really need to try to come up with ways to learn how to shoot under stress. I've not figured that out yet and maybe we need a thread on that aspect alone. Even a short time ago, I believed and have opined here that I preferred to practice with round bullseye targets, but I've done a 180 on that these days. I was wrong. Thankfully not *Dead* wrong. I now think your targets should be the meanest, nastiest, thug looking, you can find. I'm not thinking this applies enough threat to be that effective, but it's better than all my NRA round targets for defensive training. This and maybe something like an IDPA club might go a bit of the way towards defensive training with some stress. As I said, a new thread asking others how they go about it might be helpful. I know it might be for me.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

Another vote for the P238. I have one that is a dream to shoot. The recoil is very moderate, and I guess that is due to the fact that it has a bit of weight to it. The Sig Nite Sites are GREAT, as you would expect. What I really like about this handgun is that it is a 1911-esque SAO handgun, with a solid safety for cocked and locked carry.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

I also vote for the P238 Sig.... Nice trigger pull and as it has been stated recoil is manageable....


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Craigh said:


> ...I now think your targets should be the meanest, nastiest, thug looking, you can find...
> 
> View attachment 5761


...But please, _not always the same thug_. There are variations available. Use as many different ones as you can find.

It is also useful to use obvious "no-shoot" targets, mixed-in with the thugs. There's lots of them, too.
The shooter turns his/her back, and the helper moves the targets around and mixes them up. Then, when the helper is back behind the firing line, the time starts, the shooter turns to face the target, and he/she draws and has at it.

I've always used IPSC silhouettes, which are not so obviously "people." I normally have painted the no-shoots white, and left the kill-'em targets natural buff cardboard. (Some buff targets are already paper-white on their backs.)
You can staple two targets together, a white no-shoot in front and, behind it, a buff target that's only partly exposed (sometimes only the head shows).
Any hit, even a mere "edger," on the no-shoot target is not permitted. Kill the no-shoot, and you, yourself, are dead.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)




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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

*Subcompact 1911s Just don't work wel*

Speaking of 3" type 1911a style guns for personal defense, I came across this video today and I certainly agree. I'm not sure it matters what caliber. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1911a platform and own several full size or Commander size models. If you take good care of it, keep it clean and lubricated, use ammo it likes, and train hard with one, it can be a good defensive shooter. I think less so with the micro versions of this platform. I don't think it's a quality issue, but a design which doesn't lend itself to reliable operation when downsized a lot.

The video is only a minute or so long and by Rob Pincus, a well known trainer with a good reputation.






Remember, this is my personal opinion. I understand it can be an emotional issue, but I think personal defense is very important.


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## Audioi (Oct 26, 2014)

Craigh said:


> Speaking of 3" type 1911a style guns for personal defense, I came across this video today and I certainly agree. I'm not sure it matters what caliber. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1911a platform and own several full size or Commander size models. If you take good care of it, keep it clean and lubricated, use ammo it likes, and train hard with one, it can be a good defensive shooter. I think less so with the micro versions of this platform. I don't think it's a quality issue, but a design which doesn't lend itself to reliable operation when downsized a lot.
> 
> The video is only a minute or so long and by Rob Pincus, a well known trainer with a good reputation.
> 
> ...


And we do appreciate your personal opinion otherwise I would have just bought what I thought was good, please give me as much input as you can, it helps the end result.

When it comes to full size guns I am happiest with my 1911 45 cal. Dan Wesson, that said my personal carry says Glock primarily due to the reliability, it doesn't make me a Glock lover but I do support them when asked.

The reason I came to the forum was to obtain info for a pellet sized pistol my wife can carry when her G19-4 or XDS 3.3 is too large.

Originally I had chosen the LCP2 but when she handled it and said I want something better, maybe heavier we started looking at the small 1911 platform.

What other tiny pistols fit?


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Look at Kahr P380.... Kahr's are great quality at a reasonable price. Very thin and can take a beating (good quality to have for carry gun). Amazing triggers and great sights make this a viable option.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I had a Colt 1911/.380 and it was pleasant to shoot and had it till my youngest daughter wanted to borrow it, I am still waiting for her to return it 6 years later.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Craigh said:


> Speaking of 3" type 1911a style guns for personal defense, I came across this video today and I certainly agree...I don't think it's a quality issue, but a design which doesn't lend itself to reliable operation when downsized a lot.
> 
> The video is only a minute or so long and by Rob Pincus, a well known trainer with a good reputation.


In this case, I do not completely agree with Pincus.

First, as a self-defense pistol, the 1911 is at least adequate. Properly set up, it is just as good as any other self-defense gun. Some are better than that, although at that level it all depends upon the training and skill level of the user. I am confident that my two full-size 1911s are superior self-defense weapons.

Second, talking only about the "shortie," I agree with Pincus that _the Colt's 1911 platform is not well suited to downsizing_. I own a shortie 1911 that was built by a talented master gunsmith long before there ever was an Officers' Model .45 ACP. It works quite well, but _only if it is kept scrupulously clean_.
On the other hand, I also own a Star PD, essentially a shortie 1911 (with a few small design changes), and it always works flawlessly. However, its heat-treated parts are suspect because its manufacturer's techniques were sloppy and inconsistent. One day, the wrong part will break at the wrong time, and I'll be out of luck.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> First, as a self-defense pistol, the 1911 is at least adequate. Properly set up, it is just as good as any other self-defense gun. Some are better than that, although at that level it all depends upon the training and skill level of the user. I am confident that my two full-size 1911s are superior self-defense weapons.


Don't get me wrong on this. I'm coming at this "personal defense" issue from someone who has been a 1911a supporter and promoter all my life. Big ones, small ones, light ones, heavy ones. I was one of the early adopters to own a Detonics Combat Master at the suggestion of Jeff Cooper in a write up back in the mid-1970s. I'm sure you remember those. ;-) I've owned and loved the 1911a platform more than any other pistol design made, maybe all put together.

The problem is I grew up in a somewhat rural environment where home invasions and car jacking didn't exist. I don't think dad ever locked the front door unless we went on vacation. Water Moccasin protection was more important than personal protection from a criminal. I used to ride my bike to a dove field down the highway with a 12 gauge shotgun strapped to the back and was never stopped by local law enforcement. Strict 100% reliability was just not something I thought about during years of competition, hunting, and plinking. If you failed to sweep the safety, it was an embarrassment. You got a stovepipe and you cussed.

Today, the case is altered. I now live more in town. There seems to be a greater disregard for other's property and lives. Law enforcement officers are governed by stricter rules of engagement while criminals are often given a pass. I have an alarm system with cameras and have to lock my door even when at home. For the first time in my life, I felt the need to get my CCW permit and carry. So, in these new times, I just feel my favorite platform does not check all the boxes I set for a primary defensive handgun.

That all said, my newest 1911 which is the Remington R1 Enhanced full size has been totally reliable so far and I've put over 500 (closer to 1000) rounds through it of mixed bullet type from old dixie cups to modern range ammo. Even some, I hate to admit it, 200 grn semi-wads I hand loaded over 30 years ago in really well used range brass. This earns it my backup house gun loaded with 230 grn. Hydro Shock. ;-)


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *In this case, I do not completely agree with Pincus.*
> 
> First, as a self-defense pistol, the 1911 is at least adequate. Properly set up, it is just as good as any other self-defense gun. Some are better than that, although at that level it all depends upon the training and skill level of the user. I am confident that my two full-size 1911s are superior self-defense weapons.
> 
> ...


Nether do I. I think his message was that if you don't spend $3000 or thereabouts for a custom gun all other 1911's are shit. I have three "shorty" 1911's. A Detonics Combat Master, Kimber RCP II and a Kimber Ultra Carry. I have yet to have any issues with any of them. The Kimber's both have ramped barrels the Detonics un-ramped. I also have a Colt Commander and a Kimber Super Carry Pro. Both have un-ramped barrels, I do have occasional FTF's with both of those pistols along with a stove pipe here and there mostly using hollow points. Personally I think that a ramped barrel is a better design as you do not have that "step" between the feed ramp and barrel. That might account for the Kimber's reliability? However that does not explain why I haven't had any issues with the Detonics with it's un-ramped barrel? The ramped barrel is primarily designed for alloy framed guns so as not to wear out the feed ramp on those softer aluminum frames. Why Kimber didn't do that on the Super Carry Pro is beyond me?

Granted I'm not going off and blowing a couple of thousand rounds through them each time I take them out. Maybe then problems would show up as the guns got filthy? I really don't know. Usually it's a hundred rounds or so. I'll go home and clean the gun(s) having them ready for the next round. The "shorty's" have all worked fine under those conditions.

No, I do not use my 1911's for EDC as there are other guns that in my opinion are better suited for that purpose. The main reason is having to dis-engage a safety during what could be a tense situation. It's just another thing you have to do. For EDC I prefer an HK, Glock or a Sig, it's gotta' be a 45. I just bought an FNX 45 15+1, can't wait to try it out. I like that it has a low bore axis, is fully ambidextrous, holds 15+1 rounds of .45 ACP and it's not much bigger than my Sig P227 SAS. Yet the Sig is 10+1. The Sig though, is still my favorite .45. I find that it's really hard to beat the quality of a Sig for a production gun.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Craigh said:


> ...I grew up in a somewhat rural environment where home invasions and car jacking didn't exist. I don't think dad ever locked the front door unless we went on vacation...


We now have been living in an isolated, rural environment for the past 20 years. We are the only family, among all of our island friends, who locks our house whenever we leave it. But then, that's mostly because there are guns in it.



Craigh said:


> I used to ride my bike to a dove field down the highway with a 12 gauge shotgun strapped to the back and was never stopped by local law enforcement...


Yeah. And in the 1950s, I used to ride the New York City subway system carrying a .22 rifle because I lived uptown and the only range in the city was downtown, across the street from City Hall. And nobody ever said a word.
And when I came home from Mr. Abels's with my prize Kentucky Long Rifle, I carried it unwrapped, wide open, in the subway too. See item #2 at: The One That Got Away?and The One That Didn?t | Guntoters



desertman said:


> ...I think his message was that if you don't spend $3000 or thereabouts for a custom gun all other 1911's are shit...


I partly agree. And Pincus isn't the only person who thinks this way.
Here's the funny part: My custom-built 1911 shortie probably cost the 1970s equivalent of $3,000.00 today, but it is less reliable than the Star PD, which cost me about $250.00 in '70s dollars when it was new.
(The 1911 shortie had been built - and paid-for - by someone else. I got it at a bargain price when its owner desperately needed cash.)


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Mr. Abels's with my prize Kentucky Long Rifle, I carried it unwrapped, wide open, in the subway too. See item #2 at: The One That Got Away?and The One That Didn?t | Guntoters
> 
> I partly agree. And Pincus isn't the only person who thinks this way.
> Here's the funny part: My custom-built 1911 shortie probably cost the 1970s equivalent of $3,000.00 today, but it is less reliable than the Star PD, which cost me about $250.00 in '70s dollars when it was new.
> (The 1911 shortie had been built - and paid-for - by someone else. I got it at a bargain price when its owner desperately needed cash.)





desertman said:


> Nether do I. I think his message was that if you don't spend $3000 or thereabouts for a custom gun all other 1911's are shit.


I love those stories on Guntoters. I really do.

Now, as far as Pincus's video is concerned, I watched it again and can nowhere see anything about needing to spend money on a custom 1911a. I think this was an indictment against the 1911a platform for defensive purposes regardless of how much you spend and particularly against small sub-compact versions, again, no matter what you paid; stock or custom. In fact, he said fewer than 10% of all 1911a handguns can make it through one day of his two day course without a malfunction and zero % of subcompact 1911s can make it through. Again, I see no mention of whether these are custom or not nor the price of them.

I have to agree with the video. It just emphasized what I'd already decided and acted on when I switched my nightstand gun from a 1911a to a Walther PPQ. As much as I love this platform, when I decided to consider defensive arms a very few years ago, I made a sort of checklist of what such a firearm must be able to do. One of the most important check-boxes was reliability. I decided after break-in, I expect zero malfunctions. That's "none" for those of you from North Florida, not every once in awhile or on rare occasions. I know in competition we do a lot of Tap n Rack drills, but in a defensive situation, I don't want to have to rely on that, not when maybe my grandchildren are relying on me. Another check box is the handgun must not have a safety. I've got great muscle memory from years of training to sweep that safety on a 1911a, but every once in a blue moon, maybe every 2000 or so rounds, I fail to do so for some reason. Under a huge amount of stress, it might be much worse. I don't know because, knock on wood, I've not been there.

I know the 1911a platform is an emotional issue for many, but if we're honest about it, we know it isn't 100% reliable and neither are we in using it. I know we can say the same about almost all platforms, but some are far more reliable and don't have a safety so we're far more reliable. I just want to stack the deck the best I can. I don't want to entertain that visual of me pulling ever tighter on that trigger and, in panic, nothing is going bang as that shotgun full of buckshot is swinging towards my chest. :-(


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## OuttaPhilly (Dec 30, 2016)

My wife carried a Glock G42 for a while, but basically wanted to feel safer. She now carries a .38 Special revolver, and since she is deadly accurate with it, six rounds are plenty. I personally find .380 hard to shoot, largely because I have big hands. I understand they are "bad breath" guns, and meant for super close range, but, in my humble opinion, the stopping power of the .38 special, plus the greater ease of use, makes it a better self defense pistol than a .380.

I carry either .40 S&W or 9mm, but they are both bigger to carry than .380.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Craigh said:


> I love those stories on Guntoters. I really do.
> 
> Now, as far as Pincus's video is concerned, I watched it again and can nowhere see anything about needing to spend money on a custom 1911a. (


I watched four of Pincus's video's in succession. The second to last video was an infomercial for Wilson Combat 1911's. There's no doubt about that. Towards the end of the video it was stated that a standard Wilson runs about $3300. After criticizing the 1911 platform in the first 2 video's. The Wilson infomercial discussed the craftsmanship of a Wilson and their reliability. In the last video Pincus stated that there were only (3) 1911's that were worth buying, all of them custom guns. I don't know of any other way to interpret that?

While I too enjoy watching those video's I don't place too much stock in them. Especially when there is an infomercial for a particular brand(s).

Don't get me wrong, as I've previously stated: In my opinion there are better guns more suited for EDC than the 1911. I've also had issues with two of the five that I own. One Kimber and one Colt. So Pincus is not entirely wrong in his assessment of that platform. My two Kimber "shorty's" and one Detonics have had no issues so far.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

In my own experience with 1911s, in serious competition and "practical" shooting since 1978, I can confidently state the following:
1. If fed with RN bullets running at least 850fps out the muzzle, any 1911 will be reliable _if the magazines being used are fairly new_. It's all about the magazine.
2. If you want to shoot HP bullets with _complete reliability_, your 1911 should have been "tuned" by a master gunsmith, and your magazines should be fairly new.
3. M1911 reliability rests more with _the magazine's feed lips_ than with any other single factor. Master-gunsmith tuning won't help, if the feed lips are bad.

I have always used G.I. magazines, some having been made for WW2. I bought them in wholesale quantity, back in the 1980s.
I still have lots of them, new and unused, all still in their unopened, original packaging.
Each brand-new magazine has had to prove itself in practice, through a couple of use-cycles, before I will rely upon it. From then on, I keep a very careful watch on its feed lips.
One mis-feed, and the magazine is discarded (or sold, cheaply, to someone who will use it only for practice).

Note, though, that I am still using three old G.I. magazines which have never failed me.
Most recently (maybe about 2003), Jean learned to shoot the pistol using them.
They were made for the Korean War, and I began using them in 1982.

...And so endeth my share of the hijacking of this thread. :smt083


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Note, though, that I am still using three old G.I. magazines which have never failed me.
> Most recently (maybe about 2003), Jean learned to shoot the pistol using them.
> They were made for the Korean War, and I began using them in 1982.
> 
> ...And so endeth my share of the hijacking of this thread. :smt083


Early on I switched to Wilson Combat 47D mostly. My last three were Wilson Combat Elites. I've replaced the springs once in a blue moon. I can't think of a magazine related issue I've had. If I have a failure, I put a little dot on that mag with nail polish and regulated it to the range. If after a good while, that mag doesn't fail, I assume it wasn't the mag and return it to general duty. Later, I'll scratch off the nail polish.

A somewhat interesting side note was that at a Bullseye type informal gallery meet a few years ago, I forgot to bring my normal quantity of magazines. I stopped in a store where they only had ProMag. I knew their poor reputation but had little choice and purchased 3 of them. To this day, these three have not failed, though they don't leave the range ammo box.


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## Illyia (Jan 12, 2017)

Audioi said:


> My wife is looking for something tiny to carry, she has a G43 and XDS3.3 but needs something smaller to fit her 105 lb frame. She picked up a Kimber Micro carry and liked it but I have read a few bad reviews, I am thinking a P238? What would you recommend?


What I recommend is the Kahr P380 at less than 10 ounces!

The KEY to the overly expensive Kahr is to remove two coils off the extractor spring...then the gun suddenly becomes a 100% feeder!

The Kahr is .75" thick, 4.9" long, and 3.9" high, weighing in at under 10 ounces. It is a SMALL gun!


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## andymidplains (Nov 30, 2012)

Automaticity.... the ability to do things without occupying the mind with the low-level details required, allowing it to become an automatic response pattern or habit. It is usually the result of learning, repetition, and practice.... If she has a P238, and you have a 1911, then she will be able to use both in an emergency without looking down. (I'm no expert on all the "1911 platform models" out there; I'm just comparing the handling of the old M1911A1)


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

I agree with Illyia the Khar brand of 380's are great little guns. I grabbed a CT380 for the wife a year or so ago and it's a great little pistol. I even grab it once in a while if I head up to the store real quick. It's reliable and eats anything I feed it. 380 ammo has come a long way in the last few years. I have stated this before but I really love the new line of Polycase ARX ammo for close quarters shooting. To each their own I suppose. As I always preach, a gun that works is better than no gun at all.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm not at all convinced that Polycase ARX ammunition does what it's supposed to do.
People aren't anything like blocks of gelatin.
And besides, at my age I will be forgiven for remaining a traditionalist.

But I am very pleased (so far, at least) with the performance of Jean's Kel-Tec P-3AT.
And, like you with the Kahr, I will occasionally slip it into my pocket (in a holster, of course) instead of "suiting up" with my own Colt's M.1903.
But both of us use conventional hollow-point bullets.


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## AirForceShooter (May 6, 2006)

Ladies night at the range.

They swap guns like little girls do make-up.

"here, try mine"

AFS


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Well, we guys do that, too:
"Ya know, I've never tried a Glock."
"Well, here, try mine. See if you like the grip."


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## toddcshoe (Apr 18, 2017)

Yeah Steve, I know what you mean on the ARX. I have seen a bunch of videos and stuff on the ammo. I even saw a guy take a pig that died of natural causes, he put a heavy winter coat on it and has his own little test i guess you would say. Seem to do a good job and the energy it put out when entering flesh was pretty impressive for a non hollow point light bullet. I keep a stagger mix of Hornaday hollow points and ARX in one mag and just ARX in the other. I just hope I never have to find out witch one works best on human flesh.


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## bluewave (Mar 29, 2016)

I have two .380's, a Sig P238 and a Glock 42. I like the way the Glock feels in my hand and it's very accurate. It's a little larger than the P238 but less expensive. My personal preference is the Glock.


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