# First Outing w/ New PT99 AFS



## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Well I Took the new PT99 AFS, that I had purchased from Bud's about a month ago, out for it's "maiden" range visit. I brought along 200 rounds of Blazer/Brass 115 gr. FMJ to play with. I was really curious to see how the gun functioned with this ammo and how the ammo actually ran through the PT99. This being my first "automatic" handgun I was eager to see if the FTF's and FTE's might actually happen with the Taurus. This gun handled the 200 rounds without a hiccup. Not an FTE or FTF through the entire lot. It functioned beautifully. 

The only problem I had was POI was totally off and consistently so. I shot freehand and supported by sandbags and it stood out like a sore thumb. The gun delivered the rounds consistently 9 inches off almost perfectly at the 9 oclock position from the bull. I was shooting at S1-2A LE targets. 9" ring with 4" square covering 8,9 and 10 rings. I was shooting at 10 yards and the groups were 2.5 to 3 inches or so with no flyers and they sat centered at 9.75 inches directly to the left of center. Elevation at 10 yards was perfect. I adjusted the rear site to the furthest it would go to compensate and it moved the POI to within a consistent inch or so of center. I can move it no further. This POI deal is disappointing. After I got home I took a good look at the gun and saw something very interesting. The barrel itself is tilted to the left, as far as it can be without scraping against the left side rail. If you look straight down at the gun as if you were trying to look into the top of the breech and look at the rails on either side of the barrel, you can see a gap of approximately .060 between the barrel and rail on the right and no gap at all on the left. This seems to correspond perfectly to the resulting POI. This extreme mismatch is troublesome to me as there is no more adjustment left and "point and shoot" is clearly off limits with this gun. The machining is seemingly off somewhere. If anyone has any suggestions I'm eager to hear anything that could lead to a remedy...Thanks guys...


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## Scratchshooter40 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Barrel Alignment issue*

This seems like an issue for Taurus and their lifetime warranty dept. I'd document the issue with digital photos if possible and contact them for advice. There may be a simple fix, but slide contact on the LH side of the barrel cannot be good. See what you get from them and let us know.


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Thanks for the advice and that's just what I was thinking myself. No sense in lamenting about a problem before we give the manufacturer a chance to fix it. It's still very new to me so I won't mind the wait as much as I would if I'd been used to it being around a long time. I've read the Taurus warranty turnaround time can be horrendous so I'm eager to see if I can maybe dispel that complaint a bit...We'll see. I'll keep ya posted as to how things go...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

*Picture showing misalignment*

...Scratchshooter40...Here's a picture representing the problem with the slide to barrel misalignment. Do you think it shows the problem in a way Taurus CS people could understand it?...It almost appears to show the slide itself being out of alignment with the frame while the barrel and frame alignment actually seems pretty good visually...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Just spoke to "Derrick" at Taurus CS and they are sending a FedEx truck to pick up the gun. They offered to pick it up today but I will be gone from about noon to 3. I asked them if they could pick it up Thursday and they said no problem. Now it's my turn to see just how Taurus' customer service and warranty really is. I'll let ya all know how it goes...


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

DarrylS said:


> ...Just spoke to "Derrick" at Taurus CS and they are sending a FedEx truck to pick up the gun. They offered to pick it up today but I will be gone from about noon to 3. I asked them if they could pick it up Thursday and they said no problem. Now it's my turn to see just how Taurus' customer service and warranty really is. I'll let ya all know how it goes...


Sounds good so far, but definitely keep us updated. :smt023

-Jeff-:watching:


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Will do...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Now the _"nail-biting"_ begins...FedEx just left with my PT99. It's funny how, even though I just got it a short time ago, I had a feeling of loss when he drove away with it...I'm such a _"softie"_...:smt082


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## BigMatt (Sep 4, 2008)

I must say at times like this it would have been nice to have bought the gun at a big RETAILER such as Gander Mountain, then you could just go exchange the gun. (i think)

Good Luck


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...I have to agree with that, I think...LOL. Having bought the gun at a really good price from Bud's I'm in the position that if I lived close to their store, I could have _probably_ walked in and had the gun replaced on the spot. In my discussions with them and from what others have told me, I don't doubt that they would have done just that too. Saving that money on the purchase now means I'm just gonna have to *WAIT* til I hear from Taurus or have a surprise package dropped off at the house by FedEx *someday*...There's something to be said for living close to the store selling the product...


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## crinko (May 26, 2008)

*same problem with my pt 92*

had the same problem with my pt 92 bought the gun 2 months ago and Taurus has had it for 7 weeks but as long as the problem gets fixed I dont care i love that gun


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...crinko...I take it you still haven't gotten it back from Taurus. That's the one major gripe I've heard about their Customer Service. I hope your PT92 comes back to you properly repaired. I also love my 99...Have you had any correspondence with them during your wait for repair?...


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

That's my only beef with buying a pistol online. I like to be able to pick it up and hold it. Look it all over. Luckily for me I can be at Buds in about 90 minutes:smt033

That misalignment..was there a lot of play there like it could wiggle back and forth? Just wondering. I've not looked at many of those pistol and didn't know if that's a bad frame to slide fit or is that common with that design.

If it was consistently shooting at the same place I might have tried moving the rear site a little. You did the right thing by sending it back. I am one that just can't fiddle with things like that.:mrgreen:


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...It moved back and forth but only with the slide back. When it was in battery it was relatively solid with a little movement I could force if I wanted. It delivered POI consistently to the far left of POA. The elevation never deviated and was perfect. I adjusted the rear sight as far right as it would go and it was a good 2 inches directly left of POA. All this while sand bagging it...I will say I never got a FTF or FTE...The gun took what ya gave it and went bang every time...Sweet weapon...Guess I'm gonna have to see how much "patience" I can muster up.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Like I said you did the right thing by getting the ones who made it make it right. I hope you keep us informed as to how it all works out.:watching:


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Yep...Sure will. Taurus just received it on the morning of the 24th of October so I'm sure I'm gonna have a wait ahead of me. crinko has had his out to Taurus for 7 weeks now. I'm sure we'll hear from him long before I get mine back...My fingers are crossed for him too...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Spoke to Rob at Taurus today to check the status of the PT99 I had sent in. They received it on Oct. 24th and Rob said his records do show that they received it on that day and have my gun in house. I asked where it was along the routing to be fixed and he said it apparently hadn't been scheduled to be fixed yet and was sitting somewhere waiting...So the wait will continue...:smt069


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

DarrylS said:


> I asked where it was along the routing to be fixed and he said it apparently hadn't been scheduled to be fixed yet and was sitting somewhere waiting...So the wait will continue...:smt069


That sounds very familiar...:watching:


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Well Taurus received my PT99 AFS on the 24th of October and it came back to me yesterday Nov. 21st...Not bad turn around at all. Problem is nothing was changed on the gun...NADA...Took it out this morning and put 50 rounds down the pipe and it still hits consistent 3 inches left of center with the adjustment pulled to the right as far as it will go. This was sand bagged at 20 yards. !5 rounds by me and the rest by the range owner who has been an M9 guy for years. The barrel still is as far left against the slide as it can be...The return paper says as to "Resolution"... "REPLACED"...What was replaced I have no idea...It's the same frame, barrel and slide, each had identifying tool marks that I looked for before sending it out and they were all there when it came back. It also came back without the magazine that I had sent along...Per their instructions...sigh... :smt092


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow, that doesn't sound like a very pleasant experience, _DarrylS_. Can you call them and see what they say was "replaced"? Just curious. Thanks for the update.

-Jeff-


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Yes Jeff...I plan on calling them on Monday, as I didn't think they would be working on week ends, to find out just what was "replaced"...At this point I find it hard for me to justify sending it back again when their claim is that it was repaired through being "replaced". I'm not prepared to go the "you didn't fix it"..."yes we did" route...You are most correct in saying that it was not a "very pleasant experience"...


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## BigBuckeye (Sep 23, 2008)

I have been following this thread...

Here is my story.

Purchased a brand new PT92SS from Buds (my Buds experience was terrible..but thats another story) When it arived, the magazine was jammed in the gun. After freeing the magazine, I put 50 rounds through it and the slide relese lever broke. 

I have had this gun for 2 months and only put 50 rounds through it. Taurus said they would ship me the broken lever.. I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR 3 WEEKS FOR THE FREAKING LEVER. 

This gun had a lot of potential.......most likely when I get it fixed, I am going to trade it for a 92FS...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...I was silly to think saving a few bucks was the smartest thing to do when buying a firearm. The comparisons between Taurus and Beretta were and are out there for all to see...I shoulda opened my eyes. I'll try to use it as is til it falls apart and you can bet it won't be replaced by another Taurus...You do indeed get what ya pay for don't you??...:buttkick:


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## BigBuckeye (Sep 23, 2008)

I thought I did the research.....the reviews I saw said it was the equal of the Beretta....

I thought since it had a lifetime warranty I would be ok......what a bunch of BS.

I just wonder how much I can get for it?


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

In all honesty I don't put much faith in an organization that tells me they've repaired something which shows absolutely no signs of being touched beyond coming back to me dirty as hell. I have a "proofing target" that supposedly tells me it was test fired and, quite mysteriously, every one of the 8 holes in the paper are virtually all in the black. Do I believe 'em???...Nope. I'm a bit of a "tinkerer" and I know my way around tools and machinery ( retired QA Engineer ) perhaps I'll "tinker" with it a bit and see if I can get it straightened out myself or I'll look for a qualified gunsmith in the Hudson, Florida area and see what he can do. I wouldn't sell it as it now is but I also wonder what it would be worth on a trade-in...Time will tell...:smt069


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Well I spoke to Frank at Taurus this morning and related the situation with the "repaired" PT99 and his response was somewhat positive as well as surprising. I mentioned that the problem that I had found initially was still there and that the gun was obviously not "replaced" as the work order invoice had stated. I also mentioned, in passing, that the gun was returned without the magazine that I had included with the gun as per Taurus's instructions. I'm not as disappointed with not getting the magazine as much as I am over the gun's condition. He said he believes the barrel may have been replaced as that was usually the cause of the left leaning barrel. Having marked the barrel myself I knew it hadn't been replaced but before I could even say this to Frank, he offered to send a *NEW BARREL* to me immediately to swap out the old barrel as this has been found to be the major culprit in the leaning barrel condition. If the barrel is in fact sent, this would be a positive action on Taurus's part in my opinion. If it cures the problem with the barrel to slide positioning that would even be better. I offered to send in the old barrel first but he said that would not be necessary as it could be defective anyway and that I didn't need to send it in at all. At the very least, this response from Taurus C.S. rep. Frank is very encouraging as well as being very pro-active. He said the barrel would arrive in 7 to 10 days, so we shall see what happens from here. As most customer service reps are usually not directly involved in the actual correction of the problems in companies, I feel no animosity towards Frank or any of the reps I have spoken to. Every one of them have been very easy to talk to and apparently eager to assist me. I'd like to see their Repair and Warranty Dept. be as positive and pro-active in their approach to problems as well. Now again....the wait begins anew...:smt069


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

:watching:


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## BigBuckeye (Sep 23, 2008)

My part came in today........3 weeks.....good luck


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

Ya know, I think I may have read of 1 good warranty repair story about Taurus, one where the gun was fixed the first time it was sent in after a reasonable amount of time. A long wait and having to call to find out about progress is pretty typical.


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Just updating the situation with the barrel alignment on the PT99...Here's a picture that shows the misalignment much better than I could describe it...Do you think this should be a common occurrence for Taurus or Berettas with open slides??...

CLICK the THUMB slowly twice...( Is it any wonder that my POI and POA are off by a mile?? )


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Well Taurus received my PT99 into their facility yesterday at 9:38 am so I suppose another, perhaps longer, wait lies ahead for me. After a trip to a local gunsmith it was shown that the slide is manufactured wrong and this was explained to the Taurus repair department in a detailed explanation of what he found when making his inspection of the gun and the way the parts fit together. The explanation along with detailed photos was included with the gun when it was shipped. It seems everyone I show the gun to can see the problem clearly except for the Brazilians...I'm just gonna sit back and :watching:...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

*Got tired of waitin'*

...Got tired of waiting for the Taurus to get back to me from their "repair" facility, knowing I probably won't get it back til well after the New Year, and acquired an incredibly sweet Italian made 92FS. It is indeed one sweet gun. No problem with barrel alignment on this sweetheart. It is undoubtedly deserving of all the accolades it receives. It is tight yet smooth...everything lines up perfectly. Can't wait to toss a few down the pipe with this beauty...:smt023


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

DarrylS said:


> ...Got tired of waiting for the Taurus to get back to me from their "repair" facility, knowing I probably won't get it back til well after the New Year, and acquired an incredibly sweet Italian made 92FS. It is indeed one sweet gun. No problem with barrel alignment on this sweetheart. It is undoubtedly deserving of all the accolades it receives. It is tight yet smooth...everything lines up perfectly. Can't wait to toss a few down the pipe with this beauty...:smt023


Congrats! Now, sell the Taurus when you get it back, and buy some more ammo. :smt033

-Jeff-


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## buck32 (May 26, 2008)

Congrats on the 92FS!!!!

We want to see the pics!!!!


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

buck32 said:


> Congrats on the 92FS!!!!
> 
> _We want to see the pics!!!!_


...I'll take a bunch tomorrow with some daylight and post 'em...It's a nice lookin' shooter. It just really looks like all the tolerances were held just a little bit tighter than the Taurus PT92. One strange thing as well...although the Taurus is a really great clone of this gun...the Beretta just "FEELS" so much better in hand...Maybe it's just my over-active imagination...LOL...


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

buck32 said:


> Congrats on the 92FS!!!!
> 
> We want to see the pics!!!!


...Took a few quick pics of the new Beretta...What a nice gun...Fit and finish is awesome. They sure do a nice job in Italy...:smt023...It'll be interesting to run both the Beretta and my Taurus at the range together...My Taurus never failed to function beautifully when I fired it so I'm not expecting to see problems with that, hopefully, from either gun. I'm interested in accuracy out of the box between the two...That's assuming the Taurus comes back from the Brazilian repair shop fixed...:anim_lol:

Just click the thumbs...


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## Dynamik1 (Dec 23, 2007)

LGS in these parts warn people off Taurus for quality issues - one guy told me he saw a Taurus come in sans trigger!! HOW IN THE...?

As for Beretta and 92FS - I LOVE MINE! I consider it an heirloom gun that I will pass on to my son one day - wouldnt say that about Taurus, Kel-Tec's, etc.

Good luck all!


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Well I took the _"new"_ Beretta to the range this morning both to see how it shot outa the box as well as to fulfill that requirement of getting the CCW...I was quite impressed. Using the NRA 25 yd slow fire targets I was able to put every round inside the #6 ring at 25 yds. That IMHO is fantastic accuracy for a gun I have never fired and that had nothing done to it. I will admit that the 5 times I fired the Beretta DA it was disgusting...LMAO...Two (2) impacted somewhere in another county and three (3) managed to _"tweek"_ the edges of the paper...:buttkick:...but the SA accuracy was fabulous. I had an extra PT99 barrel that I had brought along to try out and it was every bit the same results across the board. I'm actually thinking of leaving the Taurus barrel on the Beretta frame as I did like the appearance of the stainless barrel against the black frame. Now if my PT99 ever gets back from Taurus and if they actually fix the slide misalignment I will run 'em side by side and see how they compare at that time. As it is now the Beretta blows the doors off of the Taurus as it was when I sent it off for repair...I'll keep you all updated as things progress...By the way I was shooting Blazer/Brass 115gr. FMJ...:smt023


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Well I finally got the gun back from Taurus last week...Yep...Great Customer Service and turn-around time in my opinion...:vom:...I couldn't possibly see myself ever waiting almost 6 months out the 7 months that I've owned a gun, for a repair to be made on a brand new gun...Never again Taurus...Oh yeah...to make sure I never have to deal with Taurus service again...I sold it...:smt023


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Holy crap!

Thanks for keeping us updated _DarrylS_, and good move on selling the Taurus. :smt023


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...There was nothing else I could do Beefy...I have lost all confidence in Taurus Arms International, as a company and manufacturer of firearms, when subjected to such horrible customer service. The gun wasn't to blame for the problem...the company was. I wasn't able to handle that gun with any kind of joy in ownership after that kind of treatment...


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## kev74 (Mar 22, 2008)

Did they finally fix it right?


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Kev...The first time I sent it in they never touched it. They sent me a repair order stating it was replaced but the only thing I saw that was replaced was the shipping label. I sent it back immediately and have waited until it was just returned this time. The gun did appear to have been improved as far as the slide alignment but I'll never know how well the repair was...I sold it as soon as I could...:mrgreen:


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm getting the distinct impression that Taurus is having some serious competitiveness issues in initial product quality and after-sale service quality. That's a shame. Given the pricing though I guess you get what you pay for.


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...Hi babs...It was incredible the amount of complaceny I saw when trying to communicate with Taurus. Most of their C.S. reps answered the phone with a huge attitude right out of the box. Usually the discussions deteriorated immediately from there. No one, with the exception of one person, really seemed to have a grasp of the subject discussed...ie: their firearms, and the firearm I had purchased. There were times I hung up neither knowing what the repair status of my PT99 was, or if they even had the gun in house. On more than one occasion a C.S. rep actually said they did not show my gun in house...this was after 2 to 3 months of waiting...
...There's no "serious competitiveness issues" between Taurus and their competitors. From my personal experiences with Taurus they are not even close to being competitive with any of the the competition. It appears they are so anxious to get product out the door they have placed Quality Assurance in the area of post purchase customer repairs instead of pre-sale product quality. 
...All this negativity that I show towards Taurus are my personal feelings toward that company which are based on my personal experiences with them. I have no doubt that others can chime in and tell of quick turnarounds and pleasant, knowledgeable C.S. reps and I will never argue against their proclamations. I know that it can be done. Due to the treatment this solitary customer has experienced, however, Taurus has lost one customer who can and will buy from a more reliable and customer friendly company in the future...and who will not be afraid to inform others of his personal experience.


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Though I'm not loaded (no pun intended) so I have meager budgets I allocate for new weapons, I still sprang more cash for a used CPO Sig, and a new XD which is even more expensive than they were just a few years ago by reputation and market adjustment.

I guess the reasons I did that are the same reasons by comparison that Taurus firearms are generally so much less expensive. I won't be going that k-mart-budget route when it's a product I expect to bet the life on if needed. I think I realized it with the first PT92 I looked at compared to a 92FS I almost bought. No comparison IMO except in looks from a far distance. Struck me as a poor attempt at a clone.


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## DarrylS (Sep 10, 2008)

...As I now own a 92FS and have never been happier, I totally agree with you...:smt023


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