# 92FS/92X candidates?



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I had my hands on both today and backed off on buying because I am ignorant about both. The 92X is more expensive, but it is optics ready and has a rail. I am not sure of the pros and cons but the extra cost of the 92X doesn't bother me a bit. I might buy tomorrow so a bit of experienced advice may save me from regrets.
I will check youtube reviews, but advice from members here would be appreciated.
They did have Taurus models available, but the haters made me want to buy a gun that I could count on in a tough spot.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Goldwing said:


> I had my hands on both today and backed off on buying because I am ignorant about both. The 92X is more expensive, but it is optics ready and has a rail. I am not sure of the pros and cons but the extra cost of the 92X doesn't bother me a bit. I might buy tomorrow so a bit of experienced advice may save me from regrets.
> I will check youtube reviews, but advice from members here would be appreciated.
> They did have Taurus models available, but the haters made me want to buy a gun that I could count on in a tough spot.


The 92X is a DA/SA semi auto of all steel construction and has a frame mounted safety but does not have a de-cocking feature. I believe that you have the option of carrying it in condition one like a 1911 (hammer back safety on) or double action with the hammer down safety on or off? The 92X weighs about 3 lbs.

The 92FS is a DA/SA semi auto except it has an aluminum alloy frame and a slide mounted safety/de-cocker. They also make an aftermarket de-cocking only (G) conversion kit for that gun. The 92FS weighs a little over 2 lbs. I converted my 92FS Inox and M9A3 using the (G) conversion kits. I'm hoping for a stainless finished version for my 92FS Compact. Langdon Tactical has one listed but it's not in stock.  I added bobbed hammers on my 92FS and M9A3 and bobbed (cut off the hammer spur) on my 92FS Compact as they do not make one in stainless steel. I also added (D) hammer springs on the 92FS Inox and Compact. The M9A3 already came with one. The (D) spring gives the gun a lighter DA trigger and originally came in their now discontinued 92 D double action only pistol which also came with a bobbed hammer and no controls.

You can't carry the 92FS cocked and locked anyway. When you flip the safety on it automatically de-cocks the weapon and remains on until you flip it up. When the safety is on and the hammer is down obviously you can't fire the weapon. If you carry the gun with the hammer back it's like carrying a 1911 with the thumb safety off, not a good idea. The advantage of the (G) conversion is that it automatically de-cocks the weapon and flips back up. This way you don't have to remember to flip the safety off. Myself, I see no need for a safety on a DA/SA semi auto pistol. A de-cocking lever yes.

As a proud and undisciplined "hater" I hope that I've influenced your decision.  Shipwreck has more knowledge about Beretta's than I do. Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong or left anything out?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

desertman said:


> The 92X is a DA/SA semi auto of all steel construction and has a frame mounted safety but does not have a de-cocking feature. I believe that you have the option of carrying it in condition one like a 1911 (hammer back safety on) or double action with the hammer down safety on or off? The 92X weighs about 3 lbs.
> 
> The 92FS is a DA/SA semi auto except it has an aluminum alloy frame and a slide mounted safety/de-cocker. They also make an aftermarket de-cocking only (G) conversion kit for that gun. The 92FS weighs a little over 2 lbs. I converted my 92FS Inox and M9A3 using the (G) conversion kits. I'm hoping for a stainless finished version for my 92FS Compact. Langdon Tactical has one listed but it's not in stock.  I added bobbed hammers on my 92FS and M9A3 and bobbed (cut off the hammer spur) on my 92FS Compact as they do not make one in stainless steel. I also added (D) hammer springs on the 92FS Inox and Compact. The M9A3 already came with one. The (D) spring gives the gun a lighter DA trigger and originally came in their now discontinued 92 D double action only pistol which also came with a bobbed hammer and no controls.
> 
> ...


*As a proud and undisciplined "hater" I hope that I've influenced your decision.  Shipwreck has more knowledge about Beretta's than I do. Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong or left anything out?*
As always, I appreciate your wise councel @desertman.
Looking at the second pic above has solved my question. Putting a rail on a Berretta 92FS makes a minus rather than a plus. The same goes for a 1911 with a rail.
Probably going for the 92FS just because the 92X looks like a homely stepsister in comparison.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> * Shipwreck has more knowledge about Beretta's than I do. Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong or left anything out?*
> .


Yea, I've owned 28 Beretta 92 variants over the past 29 years. And, 38 Beretta in total. 



desertman said:


> The 92X is a DA/SA semi auto of all steel construction and has a frame mounted safety but does not have a de-cocking feature. I believe that you have the option of carrying it in condition one like a 1911 (hammer back safety on) or double action with the hammer down safety on or off? The 92X weighs about 3 lbs.


I think you are mixing up guns. There is the 92X Performance - that is what you are describing... The steel framed 92 with the frame safety... But, there is a whole line of 92X guns... And, they are just the new variation of the 92FS guns.

These "regular" 92X guns have an aluminum frame, a rail, different sights, and a Vertec grip. Otherwise, they are essentially the same as a regular 92FS..

I do like that the front sight on the slide is now dovetailed. But, I don't care for the factory sights the gun comes with, because I do not really care for an all black rear sight personally. I also hate the Vertec grip - but at least there is a conversion grip. And, I generally prefer a 92 with no rail.

I like the 92FS the best. But, Tool Tech will no longer drill the fixed front sight for tritium insertion anymore. So, no getting night sights on a 92FS. They charge a small fortune to take off the front sight completely and install their own sight. But, I've read that they sights are taller than factory sights.

I suppose if you are wanting to change the sights anyway - get the 92X. But, you'll have to live with the Vertec grip. Or, use the conversion grip. Now, I like the Hogue rubber conversion grip that comes with the M9A3. But, I don't really care for the new conversion grip they are sticking with the new 92X models.

If they made a 92X with the original grip - I suppose I'd get one and just swap out the sights. But as it stands now, I just don't care for the 92X model. 

My M9A3 is actually my favorite 92 variant. Although, I sometimes still prefer the look of the 92FS with no rail...


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> Yea, I've owned 28 Beretta 92 variants over the past 29 years. And, 38 Beretta in total.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured that you'd be the man to ask.  That's why I mentioned your name in my Post #2

It looks like your M9A3 has a different frame color than mine. Is it the Italian made gun? Mine was made in Gallatin TN.

Indeed the 92X Performance was the gun that I was describing. Looking into this further I discovered that the 92X Performance does not have an optics cut. The 92X RDO has the optics cut. Beretta also came out with a 92X Performance Defensive which to me looks to be exactly like the 92X Performance without the rail and is 4.91oz lighter. Also on the 92X Performance Defensive I noticed that right above the extractor there are provisions for an optics plate(s). There is also a $50 price difference between the two guns with the Performance Defensive being the more expensive of the two.

On the 92X Performance series I don't like the look of that weird looking "hump" on the slide by the ejection port. I understand they did that to supposedly strengthen the slide? That being the case then you'd think that they would've added that to all of their slides? I believe that at one time there may have been cases of slides cracking in that area. With the rear of the slide flying back and hitting the shooter in the face? To solve the problem Beretta changed the hammer pin by incorporating a disc that rides into a milled slot in the slide. This way if the slide cracked the end of the milled slot would come into contact with the disced hammer pin preventing the rear section of the slide from flying off the frame. Out of all the Beretta 92 series of guns including the M9's that have been sold and the tens of thousands or even millions of rounds fired through them. I wonder how many instances there were of weak cracked slides?

Yeah, I too like the grip frame of the 92FS better than the Vertec frame. The Hogue grips do make a difference to fill that void between the back of the frame to the palm of your hand. But I really like the looks of those Wilson grip panels on my Beretta's. At least for my hands I don't find the Vertec grip frame to be that big of an issue. I would have bought the gun Hogue conversion grips or not.

I also added a 1/2 x 28 compensator that I bought from HKParts in place of the thread protector on my M9A3. For no other reason other than I think that it looks cool.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

desertman said:


> I figured that you'd be the man to ask.  That's why I mentioned your name in my Post #2
> 
> It looks like your M9A3 has a different frame color than mine. Is it the Italian made gun? Mine was made in Gallatin TN.
> 
> ...



The "hump" on the slide is done on the Brigadier slide. They came out with the Brigadier models after some had concerns of the slides breaking when the military first got the M9. Many Beretta fans prefer the Brig slides, so they put the heavier slide onto that 92X Perf model. The Brigadier slide is a tiny bit heavier. If you are familiar enough with the 92, you CAN feel a slight, slight difference in the recoil impulse. Not much, but just barely.

As for the broken slides - it is my understanding that just a handful hit people in the face in the military,. But, the military was using ammo that had pressures much higher than they should have been. There is a GAO investigation into how the Beretta was chosen, and it also addresses this issue.

It is easy to often run into "experts" who claim to "know somebody" who was hit in the face by a slide - but that simply didn't happen. This happened to very few models. And, the hammer pin change did fix the issue.

However - it is not THAT uncommon for a slide to break if you don't change recoil springs with regularity, and locking blocks with regularity. You won't get hit in the face, but you can have a broken gun. Hence, the Brig slide. Even the 92A1 slide is a little beefier in the locking block area as well.

I have read that records are not kept well on military handguns - in that the number of rounds are tracked. So, it is common to just keep shooting and shooting the gun... Never replacing the recoil spring. Then, eventually the locking block breaks, and all of a sudden someone claims the gun "is a piece of junk - see, it just broke." IF a locking block breaks, it came sometimes break the frame too.

Best to change the recoil spring out no longer than every 5k rounds... I do it every 3-4k. And, locking blocks often break just a few rounds after 20k rounds. Changing them every 15k is great insurance to keep this from happening.

Now, I have owned a couple of Beretta Brigadiers before. I don't really care for that slide either, but not for the reason you do not like it. On the standard 92FS and Vertec slides - the front of the slide is curved under the front sight. So, the front sight stands out more... Sorta like the front sight on a 1911. Well, the Brig slide is squared off where the front sights its... To me, it is easier to pick up the front sight faster on either the 92FS or Vertec slides.... Just my preference. I actually wrote a post many years ago comparing the Wilson Brigadier model to the M9A3, and why I preferred the M9A3 (the M9A3 actually has a Vertec slide).

As for the color... My M9A3 is from the ONE batch that Beretta did at their Maryland factory before they shut down production and moved to TN. They created demand for the M9A3, and then they were not available for almost a year because of the move.

I got one in the beginning, but it wasn't easy. Back then, there was a rep from Beretta at the Beretta Forum. He stated that on that batch, they had "massaged" the triggers. I will say that there is no grinding or anything when the SA trigger breaks. I have compared it to other 92 variants I have owned... It is the smoothest trigger of them all.

I later had a TN made M9A3, but I eventually sold it. I had issues with the red paint (the red dots) coming off. That Beretta rep told us at the time that they were having humidity issues at the TN plant. So, they had a lot of problems with that. I ended up replacing the red dots using red model paint. It looked exactly the same when I was done.

The frame color was different on the two guns. Years ago, I was admin at the FN Forum. FN stated that it is much easier for black anodizing to be the same shade, in every batch. With FDE anodizing, you can never get the exact same shade from batch to batch. So, if you compare a bunch of M9A3 models side by side, there will be some slide variation in the colors. It was really noticeable in the FDE SCAR 16s that they used to sell.

When I mentioned that to the Beretta rep who was on that other forum at the time, he agreed this was true for Beretta as well.

Be aware that the color of the gun changes, depending on the color of light in the room. It is rather strange. So, if I take a photo of the same gun, the color can show up different at different times. It is a strange effect of the FDE anodizing.

When there was teething problems at the new TN factory, Beretta in Italy starting making up the difference by importing more guns. That is why we have the Italian made M9A3s... Although, they put on different night sights compared to what was being used here on American made models. I did not care for the night sights the Italian ones came with...

As for the grips - on EVERY Beretta I have ever owned, I always put the Hogue rubber grip panels on the gun. Not the wrap arounds with the finger grooves, but just the rubber grip panels. I also put rubber grips on most of my polymer guns, and any metal handgun that has replaceable grips. That is just my preference. I've never cared for wooden grips, personally - not on a Beretta or even a 1911.

I will say the Vertec grip "feels" good in the hands. But, I do not shoot the gun as well with that grip. I bought a Vertec around 2004 or so, when they very first came out. I was disappointed in how it shot, and did not keep it. On the M9A3 - I have tried the gun both with and without the conversion grip - on the same range trip. I shoot the gun much, much better with the Hogue conversion grip. So, the Vertec grip just isn't for me. I've discussed this with many people on other forums in the past... And quite a few others have the same experience.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> The "hump" on the slide is done on the Brigadier slide. They came out with the Brigadier models after some had concerns of the slides breaking when the military first got the M9. Many Beretta fans prefer the Brig slides, so they put the heavier slide onto that 92X Perf model. The Brigadier slide is a tiny bit heavier. If you are familiar enough with the 92, you CAN feel a slight, slight difference in the recoil impulse. Not much, but just barely.
> 
> As for the broken slides - it is my understanding that just a handful hit people in the face in the military,. But, the military was using ammo that had pressures much higher than they should have been. There is a GAO investigation into how the Beretta was chosen, and it also addresses this issue.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all of that information, I really appreciate it.

Keeping an extra set of recoil springs is always a good idea. Whenever I buy a gun either new or used, especially used, I'll buy a few extra recoil springs to keep on hand. As for the Beretta's locking blocks I've heard about them breaking and I have a few of those on hand as well. 15 to 20,000 rounds is a lot of rounds. Not only that but it's always a good idea to inspect any gun after field stripping for any signs of breakage or excessive wear. On my S&W Model 29 of which I put I don't remember how many thousand's of rounds through. While cleaning the gun I noticed that the forcing cone was developing small hairline cracks. I then replaced the 8 3/8 ths inch barrel with a 4 inch one. Guns do take a lot of punishment if fired often that's for sure. 

My 92FS Inox I bought used for well under $500. It came with its original box and one extra magazine. But I have no idea how many rounds have been fired through it. Having worked on guns I have a pretty good idea that it wasn't too many as there are very little signs of excessive wear and tear on the gun. In fact it's almost like new. At the risk of offending anyone, I'd rather buy a good used gun from a reputable manufacturer than a brand new cheap one from a not so reputable manufacturer. There are plenty of great used guns out there in the market. A lot of people will buy a gun go out and blow off a few rounds and decide that particular gun is not for them. Some will never even fire the gun at all. I've found that if a used gun looks great and well taken care of on the outside chances are that it's good on the inside as well.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yea, I hear ya.

Back when I had a ton of 92 models at the same time - I bought a lot of extra parts and springs. I have all the various small springs as spares, and a locking block kit. I am glad I bought one because someone was just asking on another forum about finding locking blocks. Apparently, they are no longer sold on the Beretta USA website right now. And, everyone is outta stock.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Do you Berretta fans have a preference of Italian built over USA built 92FS models or vice versa? Maybe it's a wash?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> Yea, I hear ya.
> 
> Back when I had a ton of 92 models at the same time - *I bought a lot of extra parts and springs. I have all the various small springs as spares*, and a locking block kit. I am glad I bought one because someone was just asking on another forum about finding locking blocks. Apparently, they are no longer sold on the Beretta USA website right now. And, everyone is outta stock.


Same here there brother!!
Yeah those tiny little springs and plungers that sometimes no matter how careful you are like to take off into never never land. I try to use a plastic zip lock bag most of the time. But sometimes it's not always possible. I haven't had it happen too often but you never know.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Goldwing said:


> Do you Berretta fans have a preference of Italian built over USA built 92FS models or vice versa? Maybe it's a wash?


Myself I haven't had an Italian version to compare my American made one to. But at least to me, the American made guns appear to be very well made and I have had them all completely apart. But then again I'm not into Beretta's or as knowledgeable about them as much as Shipwreck. I only own three of those full sized guns and one Tomcat 32. I really do like them though, just one wasn't enough.  However I am big fan of a lot of different make guns. My favorite happens to be whichever one I decide to carry and shoot on any given day. Right now that happens to be my Sig 1911 Model TTT that I just bought last week and my CZ 97 B that I've had for over a year now.

I haven't fired the Sig as of yet but I have fired the CZ and installed a race hammer, adjustable sear, short reach trigger and night sights to it. Its got to be one of the nicest shooting DA/SA 45's that I own. Even before I installed those parts. The race hammer because of it's design makes it much easier to manually lower the hammer than the stock one. As you can see from my before and after pictures. The short reach trigger speaks for itself.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> Do you Berretta fans have a preference of Italian built over USA built 92FS models or vice versa? Maybe it's a wash?


BEFORE the move to TN, I preferred USA made Berettas. 

Once again, I will mention the Beretta Forum. Several years ago, a Beretta rep stated that the return rate of Italian made Berettas was higher than Maryland made ones. He also stated that the tolerances were tighter, because the USA plant had better/newer equipment.

I will say that the couple of problems I have had out of the twenty-eight 92 variants I have owned over the years - were both Italian made ones. 

When I first got into Berettas - you could only get USA made ones. They were not importing Italian 92's for many years. So, you had no choice about Italian ones...

Now, I think I'd rather have an Italian one over a TN one. They started over with new staff at the TN plant, and they have not done the best job. I've seen some sad specimens popping up here and there on various forums since the move. 

As I always tell the Taurus fanatics - I can honestly talk about my favorite gun company (Beretta) and be honest. Beretta does have some issues sometimes. Too bad they can't do the same 

Hopefully as time goes by, the quality of the TN plant will go up.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I bought the 92FS today. I am prone to impulse buys now and then so I decided that if it (the one and only 92FS) was still there after two days, I would own it. Fun part was that my wife and I went to pick up dog food when she asked why I would walk pass the gun department without looking. I turned and walked back and bought the gun. She did not bat an eye lash. Sure love that Girl!
It looks good, feels good in my XL hands and the price was fair enough that I will not lose a dime if I trade or sell if I don't love it.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> I bought the 92FS today. I am prone to impulse buys now and then so I decided that if it (the one and only 92FS) was still there after two days, I would own it. Fun part was that my wife and I went to pick up dog food when she asked why I would walk pass the gun department without looking. I turned and walked back and bought the gun. She did not bat an eye lash. Sure love that Girl!
> It looks good, feels good in my XL hands and the price was fair enough that I will not lose a dime if I trade or sell if I don't love it.


Congrats!

Make sure to replace the hammer spring with a factory D spring. It is a factory part, and as low as I personally go - since all my guns are potential self defense guns. 

Will take about 3 pounds off the DA pull and about 1/2 a pound off the SA pull. I put this in every 92 I have ever owned


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I think the "D" designation comes from the Centurion D which is double action only?
Can you tell me where to source the D spring? While I am at it I may as well get a couple recoil springs too.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> I think the "D" designation comes from the Centurion D which is double action only?
> Can you tell me where to source the D spring? While I am at it i may as well get a couple recoil springs too.


It is a "D" spring because of the DAO model... There were fullsize DAO models for the government initially.

Usually, I buy D springs from Brownells - and you are in luck - they are actually in stock!

Might wanna grab a few, in case you ever buy another Beretta. Right now, gun parts are hard to get:






BERETTA USA HAMMER SPRING D VERSION | Brownells


Top Rated Supplier of Firearm Reloading Equipment, Supplies, and Tools - Colt



www.brownells.com


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Goldwing said:


> I think the "D" designation comes from the Centurion D which is double action only?
> Can you tell me where to source the D spring? While I am at it i may as well get a couple recoil springs too.


Midwest Gun Works is another great source for Beretta parts. Amongst many other makes. Beretta 92


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

desertman said:


> Midwest Gun Works is another great source for Beretta parts. Amongst many other makes. Beretta 92


Yea, they have it too: Beretta 90 Series Compact Hammer Spring, D Version

It is listed as "compact hammer spring," - but the hammer spring for the compact is the same as the fullsize. So, not sure why they have it listed that way. a "D" spring should be a "D" spring for any 92. The other springs are different weight WIlson springs.

I'd buy from Brownells just in case something is off, though... Since Midwest Gun Works has it listed that way. Just my opinion. 

In the past, EVERYONE can be out of stock of it at the same time. I remember that happening many times before.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> It is a "D" spring because of the DAO model... There were fullsize DAO models for the government initially.
> 
> Usually, I buy D springs from Brownells - and you are in luck - they are actually in stock!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link!


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Goldwing said:


> Do you Berretta fans have a preference of Italian built over USA built 92FS models or vice versa? Maybe it's a wash?


Mine is an American made one, but the Italian ones have all the cool cartouche marks on them.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

berettatoter said:


> Mine is an American made one, but the* Italian ones have all the cool cartouche marks on them. *


I have my eye on a custom Craft Holster. The one that I have has the proper cant to make my G34 melt into my 210# without printing. It should be in the works soon.
Mine is an Italian, it looks to be a beauty. Let's hope it shoots like it looks!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> I have my eye on a custom Craft Holster. The one that I have has the proper cant to make my G34 melt into my 210# without printing. It should be in the works soon.
> Mine is an Italian, it looks to be a beauty. Let's hope it shoots like it looks!


I have changed my mind about Craft holsters. Some hide better than others. Some of the Craft holsters seem to tilt out a bit, making the gun be more visible. And, I am talking about having the same model holster - just made for various guns, There seems to be some variation, unfortunately. 

I sold my last one, and will not buy anymore. The Galco FLETCH did a better job, IMHO. I owned several of those in years past, and they hid the gun better than the Craft holsters do, IMHO. 

But, I live in the same town where Versa Carry Holsters are made. I bought 2 of their holsters a month ago, and they conceal very well. They also work for multiple guns. The one that fits my Glock 19, also fits my various Shields, as well as the Beretta M9A3 I have.

I got the Protector S1 holster and Rapid Slide S1 holster from Versa Carry. The Rapid Slide stays flat against your waist if you have to remove your gun for some reason. So, it's not noticeable if you keep the holster on without a gun in it. These two holsters hide the guns much better than the Craft holsters did. They are also cheaper. No, they don't look as fancy. But after 25 years of concealed carry, I have gone thru a LOT of holsters over the years. I really like these.

Versa Carry also makes a bunch of other holsters - I cannot say if ALL of them will fit multiple guns in the same holster. But those two will.


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