# new guy needs opinions...



## 00s_380 (Jun 29, 2013)

Hello to all,

My wife and I have fired many small pistols in the 9mm and .380. We both love the p238. We have found a local shop the has the two we want. Hers equanox, mine blackwood. Not terrible on the price at 650 a piece. I have read and read about the .380 round and for summer time In fl It will be perfect size for the atire here. The questions start here. 

Nothing is set in stone so anyone have reasons that we shouldnt go with these two?

The price seems ok to me....are they sticking it to me?

What is the best inside the waist band holster for me in shorts and a tshirt?

What is good range ammo and what is good defense ammo for these?

Sorry for the long first post but figured I ask those who know. Any other opinions are welcome as well. Thank you very much in advance.

Mike


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

* We both love the p238.*

Seems you answered your own questions as to purchasing them........

Any of the brand name ammunition is just fine for the range.......

As to holsters, there are so many to choose from and most do not stay with the 1st one they purchase...... Happy hunting.........

At the Sig site the suggested retail price for the Equanox is $756.00
P238 Equinox

And the Blackwood its $738.00
P238 Blackwood


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## 00s_380 (Jun 29, 2013)

Very true we did like it best. Seems ammo is still high to buy bulk. Does anyone habe suggestions on a hoster to try out, or brand that is nice? What is the highest load you would run through the 238?


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## all357mag (May 20, 2013)

It seems like these days you could get 9mm in 380 size guns. Ammo is easier to get, and cheaper.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

IMO, the .380 is an "iffy" caliber to use for self-defense. 

Sure, it's still better than nothing, but generally speaking, it's not a caliber intended for those new to firearms. When it comes to semi-auto self-defense calibers, I wouldn't want anything less than a 9mm. :watching:


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## SigP229R (Jun 1, 2007)

*Without trying to get into any caliber wars, bullet placement is the answer for any SD situation. Therefore if you are proficient with the 380 then you will be O K. I usually carry 9mm or 40 S&W. Any good JHP would be O K for SD and any good quality FMJ would be good for target practice. The price on the guns seems O K. Not a great barn burner deal but neither is it by any means a rip off. Good luck on whatever choice you make.*


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SigP229R said:


> *Without trying to get into any caliber wars, bullet placement is the answer for any SD situation. Therefore if you are proficient with the 380 then you will be O K. I usually carry 9mm or 40 S&W. Any good JHP would be O K for SD and any good quality FMJ would be good for target practice. The price on the guns seems O K. Not a great barn burner deal but neither is it by any means a rip off. Good luck on whatever choice you make.*


Yes, bullet placement is critical, with *ANY* caliber.

Problem is, it's much easier said than done. In other words, most that have to deal with the issue, do so with a song and a prayer.


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## 00s_380 (Jun 29, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys. We went ahead and got the blackwood and the equanox. Wife liked the blackwood more so I got the other. I know they are 380s but these are more of a summertime attire type carry pistols. I have a glock 23 for other times of the year and while in the truck. I am having a hard time finding the right IWB holster. I am definitely open to suggestions but I want to find one the has the material on the skin side so it doesnt rub me raw. Also what is this kydex and is it as good as people say? Thanks again for the help.


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## malonezn1972 (Jun 30, 2013)

I just purchased a P250 subcompact, and I bought the Uncle Mike's IWB holster. It is very comfortable on the skin side. I can't really speak for the quality on it, as I have only had it a week, but so far I have no complaints. Also, another post mentioned most people do not stay with the first one they purchase, so Uncle Mike's is inexpensive enough to try out on a trial basis ($12.99 at Academy Sports & Outdoors.) Sorry I don't have any experience with any other brands/styles to compare it to.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

See SHTF Gear for kydex holsters for P238. SHTF Gear Holsters - American Made, Fast Shipping, Comfortable Holsters


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

On the other side of the SIG equation, here's the best reason I know to NOT go ahead with your present plans ~

Carrying It Off: Springfield XDs Review - Guns & Ammo

You will not believe that anything in 45 ACP caliber could be THIS small! Two people I know already own one; and the both of them absolutely love this incredibly small pistol.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

00s_380 said:


> What is the best inside the waist band holster for me in shorts and a tshirt?
> 
> What is good range ammo and what is good defense ammo for these?


I'll address two of your questions, holster first. I like the Crossbreed style hybrid IWB. It has a wide leather pad that forms to your body and that will be about as close as you can get to actual comfort, while concealing a pistol, especially without an undershirt.

Self defense Ammo for a .380 - two schools of thought: (1) FMJ for practice, premium grade hollow points for SD; (2) FMJ, period.

I rarely carry a .380, but when I do, I carry it loaded with FMJ. The reason I don't want hollow points in .380 is because even the best of them are borderline on penetration, usually around 8" in ballistic geletin made with the FBI recipe. That's fine if your attacker isn't wearing a heavy coat, or if he doesn't turn sideways to you, making the shot pass through an arm, or throw up his hands, etc. But the FMJ will probably get through all of that in one piece, and if it does exit, will probably be pretty well spent.

Obviously, the argument against the FMJ is that missed shots will go through walls and hit innocent bystanders, or it won't expand enough to do enough damage to stop the bad guy. My argument would be that you have to worry about where the missed shots will go, anyway, regardless of the bullet...as the NYC police demonstrated a while back, when they wounded 8 bystanders with hollow point ammo before getting a bullet into one bad guy. The 'human factor' has much more to do with who gets hurt (and how much) than bullet construction, in my opinion.

It's a close argument, and I have vacillated back and forth on it for years, but that's my present thinking. Mostly, I just don't carry .380, because any platform that is large enough for me to shoot well will handle 9mm Luger or above. For me, the .380 is only for a pocket pistol. If I carry IWB in the summer, it will be an XDs in .45, or a Kahr in 9mm or .40 S&W.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

federal 90 g hydra shok 
winchester silvertip 85g HP
speer 90 g godl dot
hornady 90 g crit def
winchester pdx1 95g 
pocket holster - desantis's NEMESIS


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Bisley said:


> ....... Self defense Ammo for a .380 - two schools of thought: (1) FMJ for practice, premium grade hollow points for SD; (2) FMJ, period.
> 
> I rarely carry a .380, but when I do, I carry it loaded with FMJ. The reason I don't want hollow points in .380 is because even the best of them are borderline on penetration, usually around 8" in ballistic geletin made with the FBI recipe. That's fine if your attacker isn't wearing a heavy coat, or if he doesn't turn sideways to you, making the shot pass through an arm, or throw up his hands, etc. But the FMJ will probably get through all of that in one piece, and if it does exit, will probably be pretty well spent.
> 
> ...


I've owned an old German-made Walther PPK-S in 9mm Kurz  for almost 50 years, now. The only time, nowadays, that I carry my Walther pistol is when I'm wearing a 3 piece suit and expect to shake hands and get hugged a lot. (Weddings and funerals!) :mrgreen:

I use an El Paso Saddlery, 'Street Combat', open-topped and steel-rimmed, pancake holster that really does hide this little pistol well. (It's black basket-weave and real pretty, too.)

#88 "Street Combat" Holster

I have two big objections to the 380 Auto (9mm Kurz): The first is that it often appears in blowback mechanical designs that really kick much harder than might be expected; and the other objection I have is that, yes indeed, 380 rounds don't hit anywhere near as hard as is often necessary in order to change a target's mind and immediately put him down.

Almost every experienced pistolero I've ever known agrees with your assessment of FMJ/JHP 380 ammunition, including me too. I've never had to use a 380 ACP in self-defense; (and hope I never will) but the usual compensations for this marginal performance cartridge are to: (1) use the FMJ ammunition that you've recommended, (2) always fire more than once, and (3) try to group your shots as closely together as possible - Which, out in the real world, is very difficult for most people to do.

I don't lose a lot of sleep worrying about the Internet phenomenon of, so-called, 'over-penetration'. Once they are, 'in the air' ALL BULLETS are extremely dangerous; AND, of the two, it's clean misses rather than over-penetration that are the bigger concern. Any gunman with properly instilled safety habits is going to habitually take his target's backstop, and his own angle(s)-of-fire into consideration before he begins working the trigger.

Part of my own answer to effectively using a 380 Auto includes carrying two extra magazines on the opposite side of my belt (El Paso Saddlery, again). There was a time when I fooled around with Glaser, 'Safety Slugs'; but, after a couple of years, I ended up with the same low opinion of Teflon-filled bullets as Dr. Martin Fackler. So, I think your advice is very sound: In 380 Auto FMJ is, indeed, the right way to go! (Which is a large part of the reason, 'Why' I offered the, somewhat, contrarian advice to take a serious look at Springfield's fantastic little XDs.

Over the years many gunmen who've seen my Behlert customized, German-made Walther have asked me to sell it. Until I handled the first Springfield XDs, and spoke with other pistoleros who already owned it, I was always unwilling to sell my Walther; but, today, I just might change my mind.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Glock Doctor said:


> I've owned an old German-made Walther PPK-S in *7.62 Kurz *for almost 50 years, now.


I'm thinking that you probably meant to say *9mm Kurz*, which is one of the many names for the .380 ACP (9x17).


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks! Other than incipient senility, I have no idea 'Why' I wrote that? I certainly know better. :smt102


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## 8foot2x4 (Jul 5, 2013)

For that pistol, you might want to take a look at Remora holsters. Same IWB holster works great for pocket carry. Just my 2 cents.


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## 8foot2x4 (Jul 5, 2013)

For the P238, you might want to take a look at Remora holsters. Same IWB holster works great for pocket carry. Just my 2 cents.


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