# Jordans back from the gun range...



## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

First off I did not shoot ANY guns. I had heard this gun shop (in a somewhat bad area) was a good place to rent guns. Upon walking in I knew one of the kids behind the counter (we're both 22). When I was a minor I got myself into a little trouble for smoking pot and had to attend some class and he was in it with me. I kept trying to hint around this without saying "hey we were in drug class together 5 years ago!!" in front of his boss. I got him pulled over to the side and told him, because he wasnt getting my subtle hints. He said, "oh hey man whats up bla bla bla, dont worry no one gives a fuck in here you couldve walked right up and said it and my boss wouldve laughed. I thought "I dont care if I'm cool with smoking a joint every now and again or not, if I was the boss I would NOT want someone saying that about me or my employees in front of customers." I kept this in the back of my head.

If you didnt see my other thread I was interested in: Glock 17/19, CZ-75B, Berretta 92fs, and Browning Hi-power 

I then told him I wanted to buy my first gun and wanted to rent and shoot a few of the ones I was interested in. He showed me the rental case. There wasnt one gun in there I was interested in. As a matter of a fact, it looked like mostly guns that the thugs would walk in off the street and want to shoot (desert eagle, hk mp5, uzi, and mostly .40s and .45acp chambered weapons). There was maybe one 9mm in there and it was a sub compact and not one I wanted. There was only maybe 10 guns in there and mostly all .40 or .45acp. The only gun in there I might have shot was a Glock 22 (the only glock to rent). Also, all the guns in the rental case looked like shit (and I know very little about guns).

I heard him tell someone else it costs around 80$ to rent and shoot a gun for two people. When I asked how much it would be for me to rent a gun he said 75$. Now Ill be honest here I'm new to all this but I thought it weird he told the black guy him and his wife could both shoot a gun for 80$ and be given 50 rounds. He said if I wanted to shoot I would be given 50 rounds also. Either way it just seemed like too much especially for guns not being any of the guns I wanted. I decided not to shoot any.

The shop didnt have ANY CZs or Browning Hi-Powers. The new gen4 glocks were priced around $712 and the Berettas were about the same. I also asked if they would do the shipping from a gunbroker website and they said yes but they charged 100$ is that normal price?

From what I've told you guys, what do you think about this shop? It just didn't feel like a good place to do ANY business with. I am very new to all this so maybe it is normal, but my gut told me to leave and not spend any money. Any opinions would be great. Also I did hold a glock 17/19 and a 92A1 and the glocks felt better in my hand. I asked if it was okay to dry fire the 92a1 and he said yes and did, I forgot to do that with the glocks but I wish I did to compare the trigger pull. Your guys' opinions and advice would be much appreciated. Thanks


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

No, I would avoid that shop. I've never rented a gun at a shop for use on their range but the prices you mentioned seem pretty high to me. And new gen4 Glocks for around $712?? That's way over priced. Also their transfer fee is very high. Find another shop if you can.

As to the trigger feel of the 92A1 ans a Glock is going to be quite different since the Beretta is a hammer fired DA and the Glock is a striker fired DAO.


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Go with your gut. If it doesn't feel right, seems fishy, smells fishy, or has people like the counter kid that just seem oblivious, then you're better off spending your money elsewhere. IMHO. Plus, figure that if they rent each gun 4 or 5 times at $80/session, that gun is paid for. The place I used to use did it a LOT cheaper than that.


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

SouthernBoy said:


> No, I would avoid that shop. I've never rented a gun at a shop for use on their range but the prices you mentioned seem pretty high to me. And new gen4 Glocks for around $712?? That's way over priced. Also their transfer fee is very high. Find another shop if you can.
> 
> As to the trigger feel of the 92A1 ans a Glock is going to be quite different since the Beretta is a hammer fired DA and the Glock is a striker fired DAO.


Yeah I'm glad I left. I just now googled gun ranges and the first place I called rented guns for about 5x cheaper. He said on the phone it costs 10$ rental fee and youre required to buy their ammo if you rent and thats it ha. Im soooo glad I didnt waste a penny in that stupid place.

As opposed to the other range I went to that told me it was 30$ to rent the gun and 40$ for 50 round (regardless of what type) plus 5$ for hearing protection etc. I'm glad I listened to my gut and walked out.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Unbelievable! I've, probably, purchased a good 150 guns during my life. (Maybe more!) I NEVER shot one of them before completing the sale; and I could have given a damn less about how good any of them, 'felt' in my hand. Have the younger generations really become this effete! 

Listen, Grasshopper: First you, 'master yourself'; then you, 'master the gun'. Who cares how it feels in your hand! As long as (1) the distal joint on your index (trigger) finger either touches or slightly exceeds the trigger's face, and (2) you stay away from S&W Sigma and Hi-Point pistols, YOU'RE GOOD TO GO!


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

Glock Doctor said:


> Unbelievable! I've, probably, purchased a good 150 guns during my life. (Maybe more!) I NEVER shot one of them before completing the sale; and I could have given a damn less about how good any of them, 'felt' in my hand. Have the younger generations really become this effete!
> 
> Listen, Grasshopper: First you, 'master yourself'; then you, 'master the gun'. Who cares how it feels in your hand! As long as (1) the distal joint on your index (trigger) finger either touches or slightly exceeds the trigger's face, and (2) you stay away from S&W Sigma and Hi-Point pistols, YOU'RE GOOD TO GO!


Excuse me, but this was rude and condescending. I have never bought a gun. If you read what I wrote I went to the range to shoot the guns I was interested in, and they didnt have any one of them. Several people have mentioned seeing what fits your hand as a factor in deciding a firearm. Obviously you do not think that is critical UNLESS x,y or z occurs (which you basically stated it IS important but whatever). There is no need to fly off the handle and say things like "UNBELIEVABLE! and HAS THIS GENERATION BECOME EFFETE like a jerk. I didnt come here for that. So please, do not respond in a condescending tone to me. I am trying to make an informed decision, and when I read stuff like this (whether your intentions were good or bad) I just think, "dont listen to this guy."


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Jordan said:


> .... and when I read stuff like this (whether your intentions were good or bad) I just think, "dont listen to this guy."


And your rationale would be correct. Despite what GD spouts, not every gun fits every person. You wouldn't hand your 5'2" 109lb wife a Desert Eagle Magnum and say "go master the gun". Her fingers probably don't even close on the grip. That's why there is no answer to "what's the best gun for me to buy" because what works for me may not work for you. The right gun will fit in your hand and point like an extension of your index finger. If you have to force it, two hand it, or kludge it.... then it's not the right gun.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Jordan said:


> Yeah I'm glad I left. I just now googled gun ranges and the first place I called rented guns for about 5x cheaper. He said on the phone it costs 10$ rental fee and youre required to buy their ammo if you rent and thats it ha. Im soooo glad I didnt waste a penny in that stupid place.


I'd go with this one, sounds much better. I'd call beforehand to see if any of the rentals are the ones you're looking for. Hopefully you can shoot some on your list, but CZ and the high power? I doubt it, but who knows until you find out. A big gun show, or large retailer may be an idea to at least put them in your hand.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

GD, old school, perhaps it's the time for grasshopper to join the Marines(adapt and overcome). In the service you get what they give you, and if you don't like it, you are SOL. Reminds me when I was in basic qualifying with a Vietnam era M-16 with it's rattling hand-guards. I'm a lefty and that sucker would shoot hot, hot, brass down my BDU's and I could smell myself burning, but I dare not say a word. Suffice to say I qualified 1 short of expert.


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

denner said:


> I'd go with this one, sounds much better. I'd call beforehand to see if any of the rentals are the ones you're looking for. Hopefully you can shoot some on your list, but CZ and the high power? I doubt it, but who knows until you find out. A big gun show, or large retailer may be an idea to at least put them in your hand.


Yeah, you're exactly right. This place only had the Glocks for rent, but he strongly implied that if I came in real serious to buy (flashed cash) he MIGHT let me shoot a Beretta 92Fs (they have them for sale but not for rent). He said they didnt have any CZs for sale, and I asked why. He said, "well theyre great guns, they sell well, theyre priced right, I honestly do not have an answer for ya kid." Ha. And they do not have hi-powers for sale either. Do you think any place that rents guns would have a hi-power or CZ75 available? Or is this just a pipe dream that I've been lead to believe from listening to, "the only way to choose is to go to the range, kid!" over and over.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

I've never had an issue buying a handgun WITHOUT firing it first. Simply looking them over and working the trigger is enough for me... then I basically learn to shoot it well. Shooting well takes time and is a skill developed over time... and sustainment training is needed to maintain your skill level throughout your life... although once you have the fundamentals nailed, you should be able to fire any gun you pick up fairly well. Often during a class, i'll shoot a students gun to show them their sights are not off (when they are having difficulties and/or trying to take bad sights out of the equation), many guns i've never handled before... still having most holes touching each other. It's a reinforcement that fundamentals and training will carry over from firearm to firearm.

While I think shooting a gun first before buying it makes sense... I don't think it should carry as much weight as your giving it. 

I never shot my CZ75 or my Sig P226 or even my EDC P238 before dropping the cash on em'... and one was over $1,000. Extremely happy with all my purchases and I enjoy learning the individual guns.

Your looking at all great guns and I really think you'll like which ever one you choose... and then you'll purchase the others on your list too... it's almost inevitable, lol. 

Buy that first gun... and develop yourself as a shooter by learning and mastering the fundamentals of pistol craft. Then, look toward other firearms to grow your skill set and vary your training.

With so many choices and features... and price ranges, I can understand how newer gun owners or 1st time buyers can be a little overwhelmed. When I go into gun stores nowadays... I know exactly what I like and pass by half the guns in the cases. Some brands and styles I don't give a second glance to.


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

denner said:


> In the service you get what they give you, and if you don't like it, you are SOL.


There's a BIG difference in arming an army or corps where they only have one issue weapon as compared to an individual walking into a gunshop with a pocketful of cash and 768+ different choices. If it's my money, and eventually my life perhaps depending on that purchase, I'll take my time and find what works best for me. In the Corps, you were a number. Can't handle your Beretta M-9 against that insurgent, then the next grunt will. At home with my life and my families life on the line, thank you but I'll choose what works best for me. That's the OP's point, and it is a good one.

And no, I'm not trying to disparage grunts. 20 years of hauling passengers across the pond and watching them clean weapons endlessly in the well deck... they are good people to have handy when ya need one.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Jordan said:


> Yeah, you're exactly right. This place only had the Glocks for rent, but he strongly implied that if I came in real serious to buy (flashed cash) he MIGHT let me shoot a Beretta 92Fs (they have them for sale but not for rent). He said they didnt have any CZs for sale, and I asked why. He said, "well theyre great guns, they sell well, theyre priced right, I honestly do not have an answer for ya kid." Ha. And they do not have hi-powers for sale either. Do you think any place that rents guns would have a hi-power or CZ75 available? Or is this just a pipe dream that I've been lead to believe from listening to, "the only way to choose is to go to the range, kid!" over and over.


Jordan, as you recall I quoted this in your earlier post: "Unfortunately, you may not be able to shoot nor see in person the pistols you are inquiring about which creates the big dilemma." Yes, I do believe the chances of first shooting a CZ or Browning High Power at a gunshop/range is a pipedream. CZ's and High Power's are even somewhat difficult to find sometimes.

How much is it to rent the Glock? I'd at least shoot the Glock and see if the gunshop won't let you handle and perhaps even test the trigger on a 92FS. Then I would defer to TapnRack's observations. 1. Because he owns both the CZ and 92G and gives excellent observations on both which practically gets you as close to having fired the pistols. 2. He is a certified trainer and leo and for sure knows what he's talking about.

But just remember, he has personal preferences like the rest of us, but he is spot on referencing the CZ and 92 and you yourself can find out about the Glock and perhaps the 92 by personal observation and perhaps shooting the pistols. In other words, I think this is gonna be as good as it's going to get, but as said before you can't go wrong with any of them. Time to snatch pebble from hand , Grasshopper!:numbchuck:





 < please watch


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

Scorpion8 said:


> There's a BIG difference in arming an army or corps where they only have one issue weapon as compared to an individual walking into a gunshop with a pocketful of cash and 768+ different choices. If it's my money, and eventually my life perhaps depending on that purchase, I'll take my time and find what works best for me. That's the OP's point, and it is a good one.
> 
> .


This exactly. It is a lot easier for many of you who I assume grew up shooting and had fathers with guns. I didnt see many guns from the time my parents got divorced at 9 years old and didnt have a lot of contact with my dad and none of the contact we did have was about guns. I would like to just buy any gun and have the thought process, "well Ill master it regardless if it is good for me, and if all else fails Ill buy a different one," but I dont really have that luxury at this point in time. I want something that suits me, that is dependable, that can save my life if need be, and also something I am proud of and enjoy to get me into firearms. I know I am being very meticulous about this, but I have made many bad impulse buys in my life, and I think a firearm would be a very stupid one to add to that list because it is a big deal.

You guys were right; it is very overwhelming to someone who is brand new to all this. Sometimes coming here and reaffirming what I subconsciously may already know helps me feel relaxed and better about the potential decisions I may make. Not to mention all the new insight and knowledge I have gained while being a member. I want to thank EVERYONE here who has responded to me. It is much appreciated. I will keep you guys updated on my search. Despite the warnings, I think I will still wait and venture to the gun show in may to at least compare prices. From what Ive seen and what I've heard from yall, they have to be better prices than 750$ total for a brand new glock 19 gen 4.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Jordan said:


> 750$ total for a brand new glock 19 gen 4.


I'd spend no more than $560.00 under current gun buying conditions on that. That's Sig 226, Beretta 92A1, and H&K territory not Glock territory.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Jordan said:


> This exactly. It is a lot easier for many of you who I assume grew up shooting and had fathers with guns. I didnt see many guns from the time my parents got divorced at 9 years old and didnt have a lot of contact with my dad and none of the contact we did have was about guns. I would like to just buy any gun and have the thought process, "well Ill master it regardless if it is good for me, and if all else fails Ill buy a different one," but I dont really have that luxury at this point in time. I want something that suits me, that is dependable, that can save my life if need be, and also something I am proud of and enjoy to get me into firearms. I know I am being very meticulous about this, but I have made many bad impulse buys in my life, and I think a firearm would be a very stupid one to add to that list because it is a big deal.
> 
> You guys were right; it is very overwhelming to someone who is brand new to all this. Sometimes coming here and reaffirming what I subconsciously may already know helps me feel relaxed and better about the potential decisions I may make. Not to mention all the new insight and knowledge I have gained while being a member. I want to thank EVERYONE here who has responded to me. It is much appreciated. I will keep you guys updated on my search. Despite the warnings, I think I will still wait and venture to the gun show in may to at least compare prices. From what Ive seen and what I've heard from yall, they have to be better prices than 750$ total for a brand new glock 19 gen 4.


Don't worry... you're doing fine. You have a good attitude out of the box and don't appear to be rushing it. I'm a stickler about how a gun feels in my hand. Yes, I can pick up most anything and deliver rounds to target but when I have the luxury of choice, I exercise that luxury. Three good examples of guns in my carry stable that feel really good in my hand are my gen4 Glock 17 and my M&P 9 Pro and M&P 40. These just fit. Yet I carry a gen3 Glock 23 nearly always. It's a great tool that just flat works and I shoot it well.

You'll do fine and you will also discover that after all of this is over and you have made your purchase, you will have learned quite a bit. And that, my friend, is priceless.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Jordan said:


> Excuse me, but this was rude and condescending. I have never bought a gun. If you read what I wrote I went to the range to shoot the guns I was interested in, and they didnt have any one of them. Several people have mentioned seeing what fits your hand as a factor in deciding a firearm. Obviously you do not think that is critical UNLESS x,y or z occurs (which you basically stated it IS important but whatever). There is no need to fly off the handle and say things like "UNBELIEVABLE! and HAS THIS GENERATION BECOME EFFETE like a jerk. I didnt come here for that. So please, do not respond in a condescending tone to me. I am trying to make an informed decision, and when I read stuff like this (whether your intentions were good or bad) I just think, "dont listen to this guy."


Rude and condescending? Rude and condescending is engaging someone you know about his stint in a drug rehab class with you. Assuming the guy has, now, straightened his life out, you have to be the last person in the world he wanted to see walk into his gun shop! Which raises the question: Wouldn't just plain keeping your big mouth shut have been the genuinely courteous thing to do? (I mean IT'S A GUN SHOP, and THE GUY'S BOSS was in the room!) Neither do I quite understand, 'Why' you would post a personal anecdote like this on an internet gun forum?

I have to wonder: What's up with you? So, you no longer consider me to be a credible source of technical data? Good! How, the Hell, do you think I feel about being duped into sharing my extensive knowledge about firearms and how to use them well with someone who admits to having recently fooled around with a, 'gateway narcotic'!

Geeze, Jordan it's YOU who needs to, 'get real' not me! I'm 71 years old and I've never been involved in any sort of drug abuse in my entire life! Furthermore, now that I've had a chance to, 'take the measure of the man' I strongly suspect that, right now as I sit in this chair inputting text, I already know more about guns and how to use them well than you will know at anytime in the next 50 or 60 years.

I'll thank you for one thing, though: I appreciate the reminder to be more careful about, both, what technical information I share with others as well as who I tend to so blithely share it with! Don't worry! You're not going to have a problem with any more of my replies. Now that I know with whom I'm dealing I'll never answer another one of your posted queries, again; and that's a promise.

NOTE: Lest there be any confusion, if you were standing next to me on a firing line, and I were to suddenly discover what I know about you right now, I'd have talked to you in exactly the same way. 'Grasshopper' wasn't intended as an insult. It was, instead, a simple statement-of-fact.


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

Glock Doctor said:


> Rude and condescending? Rude and condescending is engaging someone you know about his stint in a drug rehab class with you. Assuming the guy has, now, straightened his life out, you have to be the last person in the world he wanted to see walk into his gun shop! Which raises the question: Wouldn't just plain keeping your big mouth shut have been the genuinely courteous thing to do? (I mean IT'S A GUN SHOP, and THE GUY'S BOSS was in the room!) Neither do I quite understand, 'Why' you would post a personal anecdote like this on an internet gun forum?
> 
> I have to wonder: What's up with you? So, you no longer consider me to be a credible source of technical data? Good! How, the Hell, do you think I feel about being duped into sharing my extensive knowledge about firearms and how to use them well with someone who admits to having recently fooled around with a, 'gateway narcotic'!
> 
> ...


Oh geez. I really wanted to not respond to this because I know it will de rail my thread, but it is so ridiculous on so many levels I can not help myself. Let me start one piece at a time, even though there is really no hope for you possibly understanding what I have to say.

"Upon walking in I knew one of the kids behind the counter (we're both 22). When I was a minor I got myself into a little trouble for smoking pot and had to attend some class and he was in it with me.* I kept trying to hint around this without saying "hey we were in drug class together 5 years ago!!" in front of his boss*. I got him pulled over to the side and told him, because he wasnt getting my subtle hints. He said, *"oh hey man whats up bla bla bla, dont worry no one gives a fuck in here you couldve walked right up and said it and my boss wouldve laughed."*- WHAT I SAID

' Rude and condescending is engaging someone you know about his stint in a drug rehab class with you. Assuming the guy has, now, straightened his life out, you have to be the last person in the world he wanted to see walk into his gun shop! Which raises the question: Wouldn't just plain keeping your big mouth shut have been the genuinely courteous thing to do? (I mean IT'S A GUN SHOP, and THE GUY'S BOSS was in the room!)" what you said

Please read what I write if youre going to be judgemental, because then at least youre opinion is informed and you dont come off as beligerent and ignorant with your high and mighty attitude. The point I was making (that you clearly missed) was I DID NOT want to bring it up in front of his boss AND I DIDNT. He clearly was not trying to change his life because he was forced into a joke of a drug class for getting pulled over with pot, and I knew his attitude was "this is a joke". He failed every piss test. If he was someone who was in there voluntarily and/ or really wanted to change I would not have brought it up. He also went on to explain how his bosses dont care that he gets high, and I could feel free to mention it in front of them and they would laugh (hinting THEY get high as well). The main reason I brought it up was to show how my opinion of the shop was somewhat lessened by this, and I thought it was unprofessional. Obviously you missed the point.

"How, the Hell, do you think I feel about being duped into sharing my extensive knowledge about firearms and how to use them well with someone who admits to having recently fooled around with a, 'gateway narcotic'!" To be honest after the way you have talked down to me like a child who's been caught playing with a loaded gun, I dont care how you feel about giving me advice. If you have given other strangers online or in real life advice on firearms, I am sure at some point you have ran into someone who has smoked pot at some point in time during their life. I am not going to sit here and ramble about how pot is good for you, or it is medicine, or it is safer than alcohol because its been said over and over and I dont agree entirely with all those sentiments even being an occasional user. I will say however that yes it is a vice. It is my vice, and I consider it to be above fucking around on my old lady, drinking heavily (which i havent in 3 years), gambling, whores, fighting, or criminal activity. We all have our faults, but you are making a big deal out of one that is relatively benign compared to what people, maybe even on this forum, engage in in their private lives. Who knows?

"Geeze, Jordan it's YOU who needs to, 'get real' not me! I'm 71 years old and I've never been involved in any sort of drug abuse in my entire life!" congratulations. Im sure you have never done ANYTHING bad. Unfortunately, in 71 years you have not realized that people will choose to live a different lifestyle that is considered acceptable by your standards AND live happy, memorable, loving, and PRODUCTIVE lives.

"I already know more about guns and how to use them well than you will know at anytime in the next 50 or 60 years. " I am sure you do too, that is why I came here asking for advice. It is when you said "HAS THIS GENERATION BECOME EFFETE'! (which I had a good idea what it meant due to context) effete with a google search means= no longer capable of effective action, weak, worn out, exhausted, finished. I took offense to that, and I am sure most men on this forum would as well. If I walked up to you on the street after you asked me about buying a chainsaw for the first time and I said, "you are weak, ineffectual, and this is unbelievable!' you would take offense as well I am sure.

"I'll thank you for one thing, though: I appreciate the reminder to be more careful about, both, what technical information I share with others as well as who I tend to so blithely share it with! Don't worry! You're not going to have a problem with any more of my replies. Now that I know with whom I'm dealing I'll never answer another one of your posted queries, again; and that's a promise"

Good for you, but I have to ask one question. Are you sure youre not going to give me advice for the reasons of being a "known narcotic user" because it seems to me that after you knew that you kept doing so anyways. I think the reason youre going to stop is you didnt like the way I shot down your snarky little attitude. You do not have to lie.

"Lest there be any confusion, if you were standing next to me on a firing line, and I were to suddenly discover what I know about you right now, I'd have talked to you in exactly the same way. 'Grasshopper' wasn't intended as an insult. It was, instead, a simple statement-of-fact."

I have never taken offense to you calling me grasshopper. It was the other things you said and have also just now said that I do not like. Lest there be any confusion, I would probably say the same things back to you as well on the range, but they probably would not have been nearly polite or well-thought out as i have ample time to respond. I have a big mouth when I feel offended, and a big heart. Rest assured I am NOT the person the person like so many others in my generation that only fights back (in any sense of the word fight physical or verbal) when they know they are going to win. My favorite quote is from To Kill a Mocking Bird when Atticus says "I want to teach my son courage isnt a man with a gun in his hand, it is a man going into a fight KNOWING they are going to lose but they do it for what they believe in." I try (try being key word) to live my life by that, therefore when I am called effete and my measure of a man is called into question it really really pisses me off.

I was going to end it but I just saw this, "someone who admits to having *recently* fooled around with a, 'gateway narcotic'!" If you read what I wrote I mentioned it was five years ago since that whole thing happened, and I dont believe I specifically stated that I was or was not actively engaged in that stuff. For all you know I learned my lesson from that class, quit, and that was that, But you just assume the worst and let your diarrhea of the mouth flow to the keyboard.

Finally like trusting my gut on the gun shop (i freely admit I make a bad habit of NOT trusting my gut) I shouldve trusted it again when it told me not to put that story in about the kid. I just wanted to show one of the many reasons why I smelled something was bad and left. I've probably been in a gun shop 3x my whole life? not in recent years, so how do I know FOR SURE a good shop from a bad one? I dont. Thats why I came here to see if I was over reacting. I didnt put that piece in to show a part of my life that is questionable and makes me look bad. I did it to show why I did not think that was a reputable place to do business. My gut told, "Dont put that in there because someone is going to get on their high horse and make a scene," and sure enough....here we have it gentleman. I dont know why I responded to this, because anyone reading it who I would find respectable understands where both sides are coming from. I just really dont like it when people make me look bad or "call my measure of a man" into question. When that happens, I can not help myself and just go off. Sorry to derail my thread even worse. No excuse. Carry on

When I said in a previous post that I thanked EVERYONE here for their help, I put it in caps to emphasize everyone. I dont think you got the point.


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

denner said:


> Jordan, as you recall I quoted this in your earlier post: "Unfortunately, you may not be able to shoot nor see in person the pistols you are inquiring about which creates the big dilemma." Yes, I do believe the chances of first shooting a CZ or Browning High Power at a gunshop/range is a pipedream. CZ's and High Power's are even somewhat difficult to find sometimes.
> 
> How much is it to rent the Glock? I'd at least shoot the Glock and see if the gunshop won't let you handle and perhaps even test the trigger on a 92FS. Then I would defer to TapnRack's observations. 1. Because he owns both the CZ and 92G and gives excellent observations on both which practically gets you as close to having fired the pistols. 2. He is a certified trainer and leo and for sure knows what he's talking about.
> 
> ...


Thanks this helped a lot.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Jordan said:


> Thanks this helped a lot.


Jordon, if you can get to a big gun show, hopefully you can find the pistols on your list, maybe not to buy there perhaps, but a major gun show should have most of the models you are looking to find. Some gun shows I've been to mainly had old relics and junk, but a good one should have them all.


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## Jordan (Mar 21, 2014)

denner said:


> Jordon, if you can get to a big gun show, hopefully you can find the pistols on your list, maybe not to buy there perhaps, but a major gun show should have most of the models you are looking to find. Some gun shows I've been to mainly had old relics and junk, but a good one should have them all.


I live in Indianapolis, it is like the 10th-13th largest city in the country by population with about 3/4 million population, and not to mention the millions more who live in the suburbs surrounding the city on all sides. They have a gun show at the state fair grounds in late may I believe? I think I have heard good things in the past about it. My papa took me when I was a kid, but it may not have been a complete gun show he was there to show off his house boat or something and I remember there being A LOT of guns and it wasnt even really a gun show (I was VERY young so all this info could be innacurate. recently my papa joked about how you could walk into the gun show we have here as a felon and buy a 30 caliber machine gun (he was being serious about that though). If they have working machine guns there then maybe I can find and hold some of the more difficult to find pistols there? Maybe not. Maybe having machine guns is completely irrelevant to having pistols I dont know. I am sure it varies a lot and can be pretty random.

The point i'm trying to make is: I believe that being in a big city and it is a fairly large show I think they will have what I am looking for. I know at the very least I want to take a look. Hopefully it is awesome and I luck into having the best gunshow in world readily accesible to me that a lot of you guys do not in more rural less densley populated areas. Or maybe in rural areas more people own more guns and they have better shows as a result. For someone like me it is impossible to tell but at the very least I want to go check it out before I make a puchase i think.


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## Gruesome (Apr 30, 2013)

Jordan said:


> I live in Indianapolis...


Go Colts!

Indy is a great place for a gun show. The state laws are very friendly. The 1500 is the big one at the fair grounds, I think. There are almost certainly others. Hell, here you go...

Indiana Gun Shows 2014 list of gun & knife shows in IN

You can go to one this weekend.

As a former Indianapolis resident, I am dying to know what gun store you found so seedy. PM me pls.


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## Philco (Apr 17, 2012)

I'd like to suggest that you visit some of the online gun dealers and or auction sites to learn a bit more about the prices you might expect to pay for the guns that are of particular interest to you. Knowledge is power and that's knowledge you can gain sitting in front of your computer screen that will help you avoid paying too much when you decide to make your purchase.


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## Gruesome (Apr 30, 2013)

Did you go to the gun show? Did you meet any of your potential models? Spill, dude!


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