# Normally shoot 22. Looking for new CC weapon.



## KWMartin (Aug 30, 2014)

I'm a newbie to guns. I started with - and currently shoot - an M&P 22 at the range. Now I'm looking for a concealed carry weapon. I prefer a subcompact, but don't want too much kick. Does this mean I should look at the 38 subcompacts? 9mm? Is the difference in recoil noticeable between a 9mm and a 38?


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## Texron (Mar 7, 2014)

A nice Kahr CM9 has less recoil, in my opinion, than a 38 snubbie.


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## jtguns (Sep 25, 2011)

You could also try a .380 auto, Sig, ruger, try some out and go from there.


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## RegasAZ (Feb 18, 2013)

As "jtguns" stated, there are a lot of nice 380's available out there that don't have much more kick than your 22LR. I would rent a couple of guns at your local range and find the one that fits your bill, it would be money well invested.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Stick with .22LR HP, plan on selective placement. If you want a louder bang, you can go to .22 WRM, but close in it won't matter; put the lead where _it _matters.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I'd never carry a .22LR for self-protection. Just too many variables for it to be an effective stopping round. 

The smallest caliber that I would consider would be the .380, and that's if I had nothing else available.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Whatever you think you might like, _try before you buy_.

Find a place that will rent you time with several different guns, try as many different ones as you have patience (and cash) for, and take detailed notes for later comparison.

Then go home and review your notes, before making a purchase choice.

Bear in mind that accuracy should not be a criterion: All the pistols you will try will be more accurate than you are, even if they seem not to be.
Go for comfort in the hand, and manageable recoil. Consider weight, since it will be a carry piece. Your new gun should offer a simple manual-of-arms, too, for intuitive use.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree with renting or trying friend's guns totally, something that feels good in the hand may not turn out to be something that you can actually shoot as well as something else.

It sounds as if you're fretting about recoil, recoil is very subjective from person to person. For protection I personally don't like anything below 9mm but I carry a 45, the recoil isn't hard to me at all. Try a 9, they aren't bad at all unless you have damaged hands/wrists, and the 45 really isn't much harder. The 40 I do find a touch annoying on the other hand, it isn't real bad but it's quite snappy in the muzzle to me.

Consider the size of the gun as important also, weight affects recoil. While a subcompact plastic gun is nice and light, it will also recoil more than a longer barreled slide/barrel that adds weight. Subcompacts can also be challenging to hold onto with a short grip. A balance of size and weight will optimize your recoil to pant dropping ratio. 

Besides weight affecting perceived recoil, barrel length and ammo are factors also. The short barrels lose velocity that may pull a hollow point down out of it's performing range, hence you need a "hotter" loading to offset it and increases recoil. Bullet weight and the powder also factor in. In simple terms a heavier bullet has a longer barrel dwell time so recoil goes up, but powder can vary that. A slower burning powder will give you more of a push sensation where a fast powder has a sharper hit, just like a light gun hits hard and a heavier gun has more of a push. Of course it's difficult to control powder without reloading but once you find the gun and caliber trying different ammo will have slight differences in recoil.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I would agree with the try before you buy process. A few quality subcompacts to start with will be the Glock, Karh, M&P, Springfield XDM for striker fire. Sig makes some really nice subcompacts as well. You may also want to have a look at Ruger, Walther, and Beretta. Shoot 9mm, .40 and 45, but for EDC I would definitely recommend NOT carrying a .22. They are a ton of fun to shoot, but only a really, really skilled shooter can place that accurately under real stress. Don't buy into that nonsense.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> I would agree with the try before you buy process. A few quality subcompacts to start with will be the Glock, Karh, M&P, Springfield XDM for striker fire. Sig makes some really nice subcompacts as well. You may also want to have a look at Ruger, Walther, and Beretta. Shoot 9mm, .40 and 45, but for EDC I would definitely recommend NOT carrying a .22. They are a ton of fun to shoot, but only a really, really skilled shooter can place that accurately under real stress. Don't buy into that nonsense.


Them .22s rate really low on macho too. The 10mm guys sneer at everybody, but even the 9mm packers will think 'wuss'.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I'm definitely not a 10MM guy...really don't see the need for that as a personal defense round. Hunting, sure. But it's a bit overkill IMO. I also wouldn't be concerned with what anyone else thinks. If you plan on becoming a professional assassin, get the .22. Otherwise, I recommend a 9mm. Most people shoot better with a 9mm whether they want to admit it or not. I was one of those folks for a lot of years. Heck, get a quality .380. That is an extremely effective defense round. I carry one most of the time along with my 9mm.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Since you have an M&P 22, which is a fine little .22LR - I also own one, why not take a look at the M&P 9c? You might be surprised.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I think recoil is subjective, and depends upon a few different factors. One of these would be the type of gun, a second one would be the size of the gun, and another would be the person shooting the gun, etc. Self defense ammo and bullet weight have a difference in what you will feel as far as "kick" is concerned. Like Steve said above, try before you buy is your best bet that you will get what you are paying for. Good luck with your search.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> I'm definitely not a 10MM guy...really don't see the need for that as a personal defense round. Hunting, sure. But it's a bit overkill IMO. I also wouldn't be concerned with what anyone else thinks. If you plan on becoming a professional assassin, get the .22. Otherwise, I recommend a 9mm. Most people shoot better with a 9mm whether they want to admit it or not. I was one of those folks for a lot of years. Heck, get a quality .380. That is an extremely effective defense round. I carry one most of the time along with my 9mm.


Hah. As you may have guessed, I was doing my Devil's Advocate shtick there. Looks like the FBI has settled on the 12" deep significant permanent wound channel as the bad surprise limiter. After that it's a matter of hitting what you are aiming at. Modern bullets of the Critical Duty sort make the 9 an effective carry gun, so them that's in the know say.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

So they would say.


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## mactavish888 (Sep 3, 2014)

I know many will say I'm wrong but I've been shooting for 30+ years & carrying concealed for 18. Have an M&P 40 & have had slim 9mm S&W, Keltecp11 9mm, etc. 8 months ago at a dealer/friends suggestion purchased a SCCY CPX2 9mm. Very compact, 10+1 rounds, made in USA, comes w/ extra mag. I can shoot freehand at 20 yards better than my M&P 40. Excellant 3 dot sights, ArmaLaser makes a model TR10 laser for it much like a Crimson Trace Laserguard & sells a DeSantis IWB holster to fit CPX2 w/ Armalaserl. I've put 100's rounds thru it, every hollow point I have & never 1 failure or jam. Also has 2nd strike capability. Price &239-$319 depending on where you are. I'm in love w/ SCCCY


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I've looked at the SCCY from afar. Never held one or even enquired about it. Looks like it's made to compete with the Kel Tec, Ruger, etc. How is the trigger pull?


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

GCBHM said:


> I've looked at the SCCY from afar. Never held one or even enquired about it. Looks like it's made to compete with the Kel Tec, Ruger, etc. How is the trigger pull?


long, but certainly manageable. The more recent models seem better than the first ones produced. One thing I have noticed with the two I own is that they don't like Remington ammo. Supposedly, according to SCCY, Remington uses "hard" primers and can be prone to light strikes. I have actually had this problem with both of mine with Remington ammo. Never had a problem with other brands including Winchester. Federal, Magtech, Blazer. They do have double strike capability though, so if the first strike doesn't fire, another hit usually does. They are basically a Kel Tec clone. For the price, not a bad backup gun. Their warranty service is excellent. They will either send you any parts you need or take the gun back for repairs virtually no questions asked. Best customer service I've found so far from any gun manufacturer. They are definitely trying to create a strong name for themselves. Some of the other manufacturers, if it breaks, you might as well throw it in the trash (my experience with Taurus), but SCCY is fantastic on customer service. I would buy another anytime for the right price, because they are easy to work on, perform relatively well, and are backed by good service.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

KWMartin said:


> I'm a newbie to guns. I started with - and currently shoot - an M&P 22 at the range. Now I'm looking for a concealed carry weapon. I prefer a subcompact, but don't want too much kick. Does this mean I should look at the 38 subcompacts? 9mm? Is the difference in recoil noticeable between a 9mm and a 38?


Ive ben a licensed to carry civilian for almost 40 years... in order to help you.. I would need to ask you a few questions first. and a suggestion.
First what is your budget.?
Do you have a conceal permit?
What is your age? ( only relevant in your body language as a potential victim )

The problem you have now is you have been shooting a 22, which is a barrel of fun. and you want to move up to a personal defense weapon. I think you may be put off by the big bang of a proper defense weapon.
The worst thing you could do is select the wrong weapon in the event you actually have to use that weapon to protect your life, or that of your family.. I light weight weapon only offers a light weight defense. You do not want a 280 lbs Bad guy all amped up on drugs coming at you and you put three in his chest and it only pisses him off.
You want an effective weapon, one that you can feel confident if that 1 in 100,000 encounters with a Bad guy required lethal force.
Carrying is about the confidence a concealed carry gives you. Your body language is the first line of defense when a Bad guy is looking for a victim. If you are in a bad area , and you walk with your head down and shy away from eye contact. he Bad guys can see that.. But when you walk proud and give eye contact to everyone, then your confident.. Bad guys don't want to confront confident people, there are too many victims out there that look like victim..
AS far as the right caliber... you can get use to the big bang. that will save your life. You don't want anything less than 9mm but I would suggest 45 acp.. if you have to put someone down,, a 45 will give you the most amount of confidence no matter how big the bad guy is, and no matter how amped up or desperate he is. You can buy a 45 ACP which is as big as a .380. For me I carry in my pocket and I carry a 45 ACP... IM 70 years old and i'm in what might be called that victim age,( senior citizen ) but I don't walk like a 70 year old.. because I don't have fear of an altercation. I practice my carry every single week... I shoot 50 rounds total a week, 25 right handed and 25 left handed just to keep my edge. My suggestion: don't think small when it comes to personal protection.,
Good luck and do your homework..
Bill aka ET


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Bill (aka ET) I would agree with everything you said except the suggestion that a .45 gives you the most amount of confidence no matter how big the bad guy is or no matter how amped up on drugs he is. There are plenty of accounts where a .45 did not stop a bad guy who wasn't amped up on drugs, but was amped up on adrenaline. I submit the only thing that will give you maximum confidence is competence. It doesn't matter what you're shooting if you can't hit the target, and the only thing that will give you any confidence is the training one has. I used to be a .40 man all the way, but I have learned that I can shoot a 9mm more accurately than .40 or .45 ACP. I carry a 9mm now, which gives me more confidence than if I carried a .45. I've carried them all, and I am accurate with all of them, but I'm most accurate with the 9mm. That said, this is why I recommend to anyone who hasn't to shoot all calibers and find what is best for you. Most are going to shoot a 9mm better than a .40 and .45, but that is up to the individual. It's not what I shoot that gives me the most confidence though. It's the numerous hours I spend at the range and working on my technique and training my mind. Placement is paramount, but the mind is the weapon. That's my two cents.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> Bill (aka ET) I would agree with everything you said except the suggestion that a .45 gives you the most amount of confidence no matter how big the bad guy is or no matter how amped up on drugs he is. There are plenty of accounts where a .45 did not stop a bad guy who wasn't amped up on drugs, but was amped up on adrenaline. I submit the only thing that will give you maximum confidence is competence. It doesn't matter what you're shooting if you can't hit the target, and the only thing that will give you any confidence is the training one has. I used to be a .40 man all the way, but I have learned that I can shoot a 9mm more accurately than .40 or .45 ACP. I carry a 9mm now, which gives me more confidence than if I carried a .45. I've carried them all, and I am accurate with all of them, but I'm most accurate with the 9mm. That said, this is why I recommend to anyone who hasn't to shoot all calibers and find what is best for you. Most are going to shoot a 9mm better than a .40 and .45, but that is up to the individual. It's not what I shoot that gives me the most confidence though. It's the numerous hours I spend at the range and working on my technique and training my mind. Placement is paramount, but the mind is the weapon. That's my two cents.


Of course its all about accuracy not confidence.. Ive been shooting for 50 years. I shoot my carry weapon at least once a week 50 rounds.. 25 right handed and 25 left... IM 70 years old.. and I own and have shot both 9mm and 40... what good is a 50 caliber desert Eagle if you miss... the confidence and practice and accuracy is a given.. if you shoot a 45 as much as I do ... its a no brainer.. I shot 45 ACP all through Vietnam and Cambodia. 65-66 and 66-67. OH wait I was never in Cambodia...

If you feel confident with a 9 mm that's great.. If you're young enough to fend off a struggle with a bad guy that's also great. IM 70 and do not dance as well as I once did.. the military went from 45 ACP to Beretta 9mm in the 80's. But Delta and Seal teams are using HK 45 ACP... So Ill stick with my choice.. because its my choice.. not because Delta and Seals use it... they just happen to agree with me....


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Well, that was where I was going...individual choice through personal work to determine what is best for them. Nice chatting. BTW, the Delta and SEALs don't use the HK 45 ACP as their standard pistol. The SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 9mm, and to my knowledge, the DEALTA Force standard sidearm is the M9. While all specops have access to the HK45, along with numerous other weapons, their standard sidearm is a 9mm.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> Well, that was where I was going...individual choice through personal work to determine what is best for them. Nice chatting. BTW, the Delta and SEALs don't use the HK 45 ACP as their standard pistol. The SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 9mm, and to my knowledge, the DEALTA Force standard sidearm is the M9. While all specops have access to the HK45, along with numerous other weapons, their standard sidearm is a 9mm.


You are right in their standard issue but special ops ( TV calls it Black Ops. ) they are carrying HK 45's. I have first hand experience in what a 45 ACP can do.. it was an easy choice for me.. It also keeps me young.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Yeah, the .45 is a heck of a round. I've been hit with one as well, so I can tell of first hand knowledge too. I don't want to argue...the specops have access to a wide range of weaponry, and they are proficient with them all. I love shooting as well. Work at the range often and love the work. Glad to know you're still up and at 'em at 70! And again, welcome to the site!


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

" Remington uses "hard" primers " Unless something changed no, Rem is right there with WIN or slightly easier to ignite in pistols. CCI is the beatch and Fed is the most sensitive and why the super light action jobs run those to eliminate (or try) light hits.

I like a 45 and has been re-stated but refuted, normal. Here's my take- would you want to take a 22 to the heart or pumpkin? Hell no.

It does come down to shot placement, but it also has to do with collate4ral damage. A 22 is small and doesn't cause the hydrostatic shock a bigger bullet will, exact placement is paramount unless it ricochets and does the job. A 9, 40 or 45 are larger, creating not only a larger hole for damage and blood loss but the kinetic energy behind it causes more secondary damage. Graze the heart with a 22 and things may still be cool, put a nice SD centerfire in the same boat and the shock to the heart and surrounding tissue is greater.

Every round has failed on a shooting, especially a dope up fool, but if the bean shot isn't plausible at the moment I want a few shots hammered in until I can pop a pumpkin. Tons of scenarios can happen beyond the static range or IDPA match, I want to dump a big hole and if they don't stop I'm sure not shooting a bulleye match for accuracy, spread those puppies out and dump blood and tissue.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

here is some food for thought... a 22 when placed behind the ear of a mafia crime boss will have him sleeping with the fishes.. but as a defensive weapon its not a good choice.. typically an eye socket shot is light out in more than one way, although the boney eye socket itself is one of the strongest areas of the anatomy . a 22 will ricochet off an eye socket, so placement within the eye is a very tough shot...; a shot in the trachea is also a lights out shot with a spinal disconnect. but again a tough shot.. where as a 22 in the shoulder will be inconvenient for the receiver but a 45 to the shoulder will make that arm either non existent or disabled for life with in the range of close personal attack... IM not suggesting for a moment that you shoot someone in the shoulder, knee or leg.. if you make the decision to put someone down you want to put them down quickly and permanently... there was a guy on the news a black guy in a club who was shot three time s with a 9mm...and he was not the worse for wear.. I saw an interview on TV and he said he didn't even know he was hit until the blood started to flow.. this is the second time this guy was shot in a club..Think he might be a rapper.. but he was a big man 6' 4 ad about 300/320 lbs. He seemed like a nice guy and very well spoken.. point is this guy that size who would be a bad guy going after you and he took 3 shots with a 9mm and didn't know it until his shirt was full of blood.. I saw the wounds.. Is not a person I would want to play around with or piss him off further.
he was shot twice in the same arm, and once in the gut. at close range.. I've seen gut shots from a 45 and it ain't pretty.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Actually, a .45 to the shoulder won't necessarity render anyone useless. Unless it hits bone, it would pass straight through. There are so many things that can and will go wrong in a gun fight. I've read countless testimonies where people have been shot 10 to 20 times with 9mm, .40 and .45, and still did not stop until someone popped them in a vital. I've read testimonies where a man was shot once with a .22 and dropped, dead before he hit the ground. IT IS ALL ABOUT PLACEMENT! 

I don't have a problem with anyone choosing to believe whatever they want, but the theory that the .45 is the end all round just ain't so. It does not matter what you're shooting. If you don't hit a vital, the odds of them going down are very slim. Now, if we are talking rifle rounds, we have a different scenario, but as for the pistol cartridge, you'd better be able to hit a vital no matter what you're shooting. That does not mean if you practice you're going to be able to hit a vital area. All we can do is shoot as well as possible and hope for the best, but once adrenaline starts flowing, the chance of anyone knowing they are hit, without hitting vitals or bone, is slim. Again, it is all about placement.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

GCBHM said:


> Bill (aka ET) I would agree with everything you said except the suggestion that a .45 gives you the most amount of confidence no matter how big the bad guy is or no matter how amped up on drugs he is. There are plenty of accounts where a .45 did not stop a bad guy who wasn't amped up on drugs, but was amped up on adrenaline. I submit the only thing that will give you maximum confidence is competence. It doesn't matter what you're shooting if you can't hit the target, and the only thing that will give you any confidence is the training one has. I used to be a .40 man all the way, but I have learned that I can shoot a 9mm more accurately than .40 or .45 ACP. I carry a 9mm now, which gives me more confidence than if I carried a .45. I've carried them all, and I am accurate with all of them, but I'm most accurate with the 9mm. That said, this is why I recommend to anyone who hasn't to shoot all calibers and find what is best for you. Most are going to shoot a 9mm better than a .40 and .45, but that is up to the individual. It's not what I shoot that gives me the most confidence though. It's the numerous hours I spend at the range and working on my technique and training my mind. Placement is paramount, but the mind is the weapon. That's my two cents.


None of this is a given since you'll never know how an assailant is going to react when you start shooting them. You might have a Michael Brown situation or the BG might fall flat on his face after the first shot. And that's precisely the point. BECAUSE you don't know how someone is going to react to your shots, you have no choice but to keep shooting until the threat has ended.

As for 9mm vs .40S&W vs .45ACP, as you move up in caliber and power (keeping in mind to use quality SD ammo), you are going to stack the deck a bit more in your favor. Still as many have pointed out, a hit from a 9mm is vastly superior to a miss with a .45ACP. But then, that also assumes that you have the wherewithal and steadfastness to deliver those rounds to your intended target. And that , my friends, is where it all boils down. Timing and purpose. Can you get that gun into play in sufficient time to deliver those rounds and do you have the intestinal fortitude and deliberate reserve to this to another human being. Unless you have done the before, you just ain't gonna know this until it actually happens to you.


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

Just a point of reference to the " Yeah But's " to my post ... my reference to a shoulder shot was to hit the shoulder. the shoulder is a group of bones.. a 22 to the shoulder bone group is far inferior to a 45 hit in the shoulder bone group from the same distance. you can put a "Yeah Butt" : top any scenario.. 
There is another thread going around in "New posts" where I mention my carry holster position and my whole response to a potential threat.. my ready status is 2 seconds faster than most people who have to decide whether or not to telegraph s go to the ready position.. IN my approach, I can go to the ready position , and no one knows I'm ready, including the potential threat.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

SouthernBoy said:


> None of this is a given since you'll never know how an assailant is going to react when you start shooting them. You might have a Michael Brown situation or the BG might fall flat on his face after the first shot. And that's precisely the point. BECAUSE you don't know how someone is going to react to your shots, you have no choice but to keep shooting until the threat has ended.
> 
> As fo 9mm vs .40S&W vs .45ACP, as you move up in caliber and power (keeping in mind to use quality SD ammo), you are going to stack the deck a bit more in your favor. Still s many have pointed out, a hit from a 9mm is vastly superior to a miss with a .45ACP. But then, that also assumes that you have the wherewithal steadfastness to deliver those rounds to your intended target. And that , my friends, is where it all boils down. Timing and purpose. Can you get that gun into play in sufficient time to deliver those rounds and do you have the intestinal fortitude and deliberate reserve to this to another human being. Unless you have done the before, you just ain't gonna know this until it actually happens to you.


Exactly. I used to be a firm believer that the .45 was the most superior round available. But I've since learned that the most superior round is the round that stops the threat.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

EvilTwin said:


> Just a point of reference to the " Yeah But's " to my post ... my reference to a shoulder shot was to hit the shoulder. the shoulder is a group of bones.. a 22 to the shoulder bone group is far inferior to a 45 hit in the shoulder bone group from the same distance. you can put a "Yeah Butt" : top any scenario..
> There is another thread going around in "New posts" where I mention my carry holster position and my whole response to a potential threat.. my ready status is 2 seconds faster than most people who have to decide whether or not to telegraph s go to the ready position.. IN my approach, I can go to the ready position , and no one knows I'm ready, including the potential threat.


ET, I would agree that in most situations a .45 hit to bone would be more devastating than a .22 hit, all things being equal. But, that doesn't mean just b/c you're carrying a .45 you're going to get a flat on shoulder hit against someone shooting a .22. You obviously work with your weapon, and state you're proficient with it. I have no reason to doubt you. The odds of you getting a direct hit are increased by that, but it is your work, not the caliber, that makes the difference. Clearly you have experience on your side, and that is going to help you more than anything else.


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

rex said:


> " Remington uses "hard" primers "


so say the folks from SCCY. That has also been my experience with these guns. I've never had a problem with Remington in any other gun in 9mm and actually prefer their 380 rounds over most others because I think they are loaded a little heavier than most and cycle the gun better, at least they seem to for me. Just offering my $.02 and SCCY's explanation of why to avoid Remington 9mm in their guns. And I have had the light strike issue in the SCCY's only with Remington 9mm rounds.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

My own very personal opinion is that I will not carry a defensive weapon which won't use any and all proper-caliber ammunition satisfactorily.
I may someday have to use "battlefield pickup" ammunition.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

The last international 007 spy meeting I attended, the discussion of the .22LR caliber came up as a matter of discussion. 

Because of the inability to secure this particular caliber of ammo in bulk and being next to impossible to find, we are now considering switching to a different caliber. 

For the time being, we are resorting back to the poisonous stick pen. :smt033


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

RK3369 said:


> so say the folks from SCCY. That has also been my experience with these guns. I've never had a problem with Remington in any other gun in 9mm and actually prefer their 380 rounds over most others because I think they are loaded a little heavier than most and cycle the gun better, at least they seem to for me. Just offering my $.02 and SCCY's explanation of why to avoid Remington 9mm in their guns. And I have had the light strike issue in the SCCY's only with Remington 9mm rounds.


That's surprising ( but I have been lax in ammo and reloading for quite a while). Rem primers used to be on the sensitive side right above Federal, which was the easiest to pop in a handgun. Either they redid them or they changed to a rifle primer in those rounds you're experiencing it with. Rem has gotten weird over the last how many years?


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## bubbinator (May 15, 2012)

KW-You have the basic skills, as a 42 yr LEO, Instructor, competitor/reloader I'd say try some 9mm platforms. We trained several of our black and white female agents working under cover to shoot very well it 40 G22s, which is a full power duty weapon. Their UC guns were Sig P230s and KelTec PF9s. These were a .380, which I do not recommend and a 9mm that will handle +P+ 127 Winchester Ranger. The Sig is very pricey and the KelTec is a <$300 buy if you shop well. The current state of 9mm technology is very promising and very controllable in small frame guns. The 40s and 45s, you need experience and dedication to go that route at your stage of hand gunning exposure. Go to a "Rent -a-Gun Range and shoot all the stuff they have. Then make your choice. Good Luck and best wishes.


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