# Carry Gun Modifications



## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

What is everyone's thought on modding a carry gun?

I am awaiting the arrival of a Glock 29 10mm and already have a list of want to do mods as listed below:

Barrel- mainly for a fully supported barrel to shoot my hot handloads.

Sights- simply because the factory sights are junk and I want fiber optics to aid my old eyes.

Trigger- the trigger on Glocks leave a lot to be desired. Not looking to go below 3# pull bit would like a solid wall and nice, crisp break.

Any thoughts on the pros & cons of modding that which you will carry regularly?


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

First, you aren't "modding" it. You are putting aftermarket made for parts in.
Second, take the new gun to the range with a hand full of targets, magazines and a case of ammo. Shoot it, have fun give it a workout. At the end, the trigger will be smoothed and as right as it will ever be, and the loose nut pulling it will be broken in. At this point, you know what you need or want, and know how the pistol preforms. Everything you listed is a "want" and pretty incorrect information driving the opinion.
A lot of people "Mod" their new Glock and then come to places like this to whine about how crappy Glocks are. E-V-E-R-Y S-I-N-G-L-E time, the first and best solution is return it to stock, or better yet, have someone who is familiar to do it. Not sure what you are used to or really think, but as an example, a Glock will never have a trigger pull resembling a 1911, or most anything else out there.
Before we go any farther, your liking this has no effect on it's being correct.
Happy shooting, and Good Luck.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I do it just because I love to work on guns. Which stands to reason as I've been working on both them and cars for my entire life. If it's got reciprocating parts I'm all in. Some things I do for aesthetics some for function, mostly a combination of the two. I just finished my CZ 97 B. I changed the sights and upgraded it with a Cajun Gun Works race hammer kit, adjustable sear and short reset trigger system. In addition to polishing the slide rails, trigger bar and internal parts. The entire gun feels like it's on roller bearings just like my Shadow 2. CZ's are not the easiest guns to work on. You really have to know these guns inside and out especially the de-cocker versions. There are a few tiny little springs and parts that can easily go flying off into never never land if you're not careful. The sear cage assembly on the de-cockers is a real pain in the ass to reassemble and is not for the faint at heart. But after you've done it you come up with methods to make it easier.

I can't stand the feel of polymer triggers. Even though there's nothing inherently wrong with them. I don't know at least to me they make the gun feel like a cheap plastic toy? There are plenty of aftermarket trigger's and parts available for Glocks. Ghost https://ghostinc.com/glock-connectors/ makes a variety of different connectors for them. Some are drop in and some have to be fitted to adjust for over travel. Glocks are about the easiest of all guns to work on as there's not much to them. Sure you can just leave them the hell alone and they'll work right outta' the box but what fun is that? One of the best modifications you can make on a Glock is a push button slide cover plate. This makes the removal of the striker assembly a one hand operation. You also avoid chewing up the plastic striker sleeve. I always remove that assembly as part of my routine cleaning operation. I also added extended take down levers.

Myself, I have to know how to completely disassemble and reassemble every gun that I own. I can't stand having to rely on other people for things that I can do myself. Not only that but it's rewarding when you can take something that's pretty good as is and make it into something great. With the knowledge that you did it yourself. The only two guns that I own that I didn't do anything to other than a complete disassemble and reassemble are my Wilson EDC X9 and CZ Shadow 2. Obviously that's why they cost more. You're paying for some of that extra labor that you can do yourself.

Most guns that come out of the factory have machining, tooling marks and burrs. Which make the guns feel gritty and create excess friction. Sure you can go out and put a few thousand rounds through them before they smooth themselves out. But you can also spend a few hours working on them polishing out the roughness before even running a single box of ammo out of them. A friction free gun is a happy gun. The less effort it takes to make the gun go bang the more accurate and happy you'll be with it. Right from the get go.

Obviously if you're not mechanically inclined or are intimidated by all of those moving parts and how they go together and interact with each other than working on guns is not for everyone. Nor is it recommended. Depending on how many guns you have you may need a few specific tools for each individual one.


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## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

LostinTexas said:


> First, you aren't "modding" it. You are putting aftermarket made for parts in.
> Second, take the new gun to the range with a hand full of targets, magazines and a case of ammo. Shoot it, have fun give it a workout. At the end, the trigger will be smoothed and as right as it will ever be, and the loose nut pulling it will be broken in. At this point, you know what you need or want, and know how the pistol preforms. Everything you listed is a "want" and pretty incorrect information driving the opinion.
> A lot of people "Mod" their new Glock and then come to places like this to whine about how crappy Glocks are. E-V-E-R-Y S-I-N-G-L-E time, the first and best solution is return it to stock, or better yet, have someone who is familiar to do it. Not sure what you are used to or really think, but as an example, a Glock will never have a trigger pull resembling a 1911, or most anything else out there.
> Before we go any farther, your liking this has no effect on it's being correct.
> Happy shooting, and Good Luck.


 I won't be on here whining about anything I do. Thanks to people like you, forums like this get little to no traffic.


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## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

desertman said:


> I do it just because I love to work on guns. Which stands to reason as I've been working on both them and cars for my entire life. If it's got reciprocating parts I'm all in. Some things I do for aesthetics some for function, mostly a combination of the two. I just finished my CZ 97 B. I changed the sights and upgraded it with a Cajun Gun Works race hammer kit, adjustable sear and short reset trigger system. In addition to polishing the slide rails, trigger bar and internal parts. The entire gun feels like it's on roller bearings just like my Shadow 2. CZ's are not the easiest guns to work on. You really have to know these guns inside and out especially the de-cocker versions. There are a few tiny little springs and parts that can easily go flying off into never never land if you're not careful. The sear cage assembly on the de-cockers is a real pain in the ass to reassemble and is not for the faint at heart. But after you've done it you come up with methods to make it easier.
> 
> I can't stand the feel of polymer triggers. Even though there's nothing inherently wrong with them. I don't know at least to me they make the gun feel like a cheap plastic toy? There are plenty of aftermarket trigger's and parts available for Glocks. Ghost https://ghostinc.com/glock-connectors/ makes a variety of different connectors for them. Some are drop in and some have to be fitted to adjust for over travel. Glocks are about the easiest of all guns to work on as there's not much to them. Sure you can just leave them the hell alone and they'll work right outta' the box but what fun is that? One of the best modifications you can make on a Glock is a push button slide cover plate. This makes the removal of the striker assembly a one hand operation. You also avoid chewing up the plastic striker sleeve. I always remove that assembly as part of my routine cleaning operation. I also added extended take down levers.
> 
> ...



You Sir are a kindred spirit. I do not own a "stock" gun and do all the work myself. Being a Machinist by trade, I tend to enjoy deburring and polishing things left ugly by the factory.

I already have a Johnny Glock trigger on order and chose his "Combat Trigger" since this will be a carry weapon. Once I have the factory trigger removed, I will spit shine it to see what I can get out of it.

Thank you, Sir, for your well written, thought out and informative post!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Jester560 said:


> You Sir are a kindred spirit. I do not own a "stock" gun and do all the work myself. Being a Machinist by trade, I tend to enjoy deburring and polishing things left ugly by the factory.
> 
> I already have a Johnny Glock trigger on order and chose his "Combat Trigger" since this will be a carry weapon. Once I have the factory trigger removed, I will spit shine it to see what I can get out of it.
> 
> Thank you, Sir, for your well written, thought out and informative post!


Thank You, and you're always welcome.

A machinist by trade? Awesome! I would have loved to have gotten into that line of work, it fascinates me. Restoring cars as a hobby not as a trade has kept me busy. I've done all that work myself, mechanical, body, paint, and electrical work. I've rebuilt engines, transmissions and suspensions, anything that moves and then some. Machine shop work I'd have to farm out. 

Except for the engine and drivetrain one of my friends is building an entire car from scratch. For the body he first makes a wooden buck then shapes the sheet metal to fit. He made the chassis and body skeleton all from scratch. I don't think that there's anything that he could not make? If he had a foundry he could probably make his own engine and drive train.

Working on guns is kinda' like customizing cars only on a much smaller scale. I can easily spend 8 to 16 hours on any particular gun depending on what I want to do. Polishing out those tiny little parts is delicate work that you don't want to rush. Especially when it comes to parts that have to be fitted.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Jester560 said:


> *I won't be on here whining about anything I do*. Thanks to people like you, forums like this get little to no traffic.


Yeah, me either. Probably because we know what we are doing, are capable of doing it but most important we enjoy doing it. That really is the bottom line.

When I consider all of the time and money I spent restoring cars I'll never get my money back. Especially when you consider that time is money if you had to pay someone. Our labor has got to be worth something? It's the same with guns. If you were to add up the hours spent polishing out all of those parts and components and the cost of aftermarket parts we'll never get that back if we decided to sell. On average a gunsmith charges about $75 an hour. If you spend 10 hours on a $600 gun you'd have to add $750 to the cost of that gun just to break even. Not too many people would be willing to pay that.

But it's not about that at all. It's all about personal satisfaction, you really can't put a price on that. We're doing it for ourselves because we love what we are doing. A few years ago I made this 1/200 scale model of what else? The battleship Arizona. It's a plastic model kit with well over 1000 pieces. I paid extra for the brass etched detailing kit and railings along with real wood veneer decking. All of the railings, ladders and stairs were stamped into a thin flat sheet of brass which had to be removed, then cut, bent and folded into shape. If I was to add up all of my time, this thing took me months to complete. I estimate that I've got at least 200 hours into it. At $75 an hour that comes to $15,000. Sometimes I'd spend hours just working on it, other times a few hours here and there. But every hour I spent working on it and every time I look at it I can't help but think of what happened on that fateful day of infamy December 7th 1941. It's now one of my prized possessions.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I have done some modifications to guns before, but not usually to a carry gun... Other than sights. The one exception is to the Beretta 92. I have installed a factory "D" spring to take 3lbs off the DA pull. But, it is still a factory part, and some factory 92 variants come with the spring already installed.

Other than that, I only keep guns that are modified as range toys, personally.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I might be an outsider on this one.

My G19 sports a Ghost Evo Elite Trigger hand fitted by me. There is a C/T Laser Grip and an Olight PL-Mini work light.
It rides in a Outlaws brand custom light bearing Kydex holster on a Craft gun belt.
It shoots very well and has not once had a reliability problem of any sort with any ammo.
The stock parts are in safe keeping in case I ever did have a problem.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> I have done some modifications to guns before, but not usually to a carry gun... Other than sights. The one exception is to the Beretta 92. I have installed a factory "D" spring to take 3lbs off the DA pull. But, it is still a factory part, and some factory 92 variants come with the spring already installed.
> 
> Other than that, I only keep guns that are modified as range toys, personally.


If you keep the springs within factory specs you'll be okay. I too added factory "D" springs on my Beretta's except for my M9A3 that I believe already came with one? Most people get into trouble when they either use springs that are too light or they try and modify the sear to hammer or sear to striker mating surfaces.

I changed the hammer on my CZ 97 B because there's more to hold onto when lowering the hammer on a chambered round. The short reset trigger moves the trigger back 5 millimeters which makes it easier to manipulate. The kit came with lighter trigger, firing pin and hammer springs but I chose to keep the factory springs intact. But I have been working on guns for some time now. For people that aren't sure of what they're doing they're best leaving everything well enough alone.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes, the M9A3 is one model of the 92 platform that already comes with the D spring installed.

I have owned 28 Beretta 92 variants over about 28 years. All but my first 1 or 2 had a D spring put into them by me.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Goldwing said:


> I might be an outsider on this one.
> 
> My G19 sports a Ghost Evo Elite Trigger hand fitted by me. There is a C/T Laser Grip and an Olight PL-Mini work light.
> It rides in a Outlaws brand custom light bearing Kydex holster on a Craft gun belt.
> ...


Those Ghost connectors are a great improvement over the stock factory trigger. Their connectors come in all different angles that affect the trigger weight. Some are drop in some can be adjusted for over travel by filing them down a little at a time until it is just right. Fortunately it's no big deal taking the connector in and out the pistol until you get it right.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> Yes, the M9A3 is one model of the 92 platform that already comes with the D spring installed.
> 
> I have owned 28 Beretta 92 variants over about 28 years. All but my first 1 or 2 had a D spring put into them by me.


That's a whole lotta' Beretta's I only have four. From what I understand is that the "D" spring first came out in their double action only guns? Then later on adapted to their 92 series DA/SA's?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes, it originally came out in the DAO 92 models, which are no longer made. There is no reason that all 92 models cannot come with the D spring already installed. It works reliably with all ammo brands. 

Some people put even lighter hammer springs, but I never go lighter than the 16lb D spring.

Actually, I have owned 38 Berettas total in my lifetime... Different models...


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## Budlight_909 (Aug 31, 2020)

Jester560 said:


> What is everyone's thought on modding a carry gun?
> 
> I am awaiting the arrival of a Glock 29 10mm and already have a list of want to do mods as listed below:
> 
> ...


frankly, i have been told by the several people that work at the range i go to, including a very well known CCW instructor, (and a lawyer that specializes in gun cases, and i took his class as well) that it is best to leave a gun stock, for ccw. in this way, if one is not a "certified" gunsmith, the prosecution can nail you big time, for being "out to kill people", rather than defending yourself.

also,, should there be a civil lawsuit (and there usually always is by the surviving family), thier lawyer(s) can tear you apart on the witness stand as well, and "monkeying around, with NO knowledge" of what you are doing.

even a "certified" gunsmith, doing the work, can get you into trouble, as you allowed/paid for, to soup up an ordinary self defense gun, into a killing machine.

now, all this can be the "usual" scare tactics of those that want to play things safe.

but i know from my point of view, my 2 carry guns are bone stock, and will stay that way.

maybe you ought to consult a lawyer in YOUR area, about making gun mods (or replacements) to a CCW gun?

that free first time advice lawyers give out?

may save you some jail time, and legal issues later..???


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Budlight_909 said:


> frankly, i have been told by the several people that work at the range i go to, including a very well known CCW instructor, (and a lawyer that specializes in gun cases, and i took his class as well) that it is best to leave a gun stock, for ccw. in this way, if one is not a "certified" gunsmith, the prosecution can nail you big time, for being "out to kill people", rather than defending yourself.
> 
> also,, should there be a civil lawsuit (and there usually always is by the surviving family), thier lawyer(s) can tear you apart on the witness stand as well, and "monkeying around, with NO knowledge" of what you are doing.
> 
> ...


Some of it is, some of it isn't.

It would probably depend on what type of modifications are made? If it was that much of a problem you'd think by now that all of the manufacturers and distributers of aftermarket parts and accessories would have been litigated out of business? *That's where the money is.* Same for gunsmiths who do any type of work on firearms. That being the case who would even want to be a gunsmith? As they work on thousands of guns during their lifetimes, some of which will be used in self defense situations with modifications/repairs that they performed. Laser sights, night sights, RMR sights, detachable flashlights are all modifications that some shyster lawyer could claim turns your gun into a more efficient "killing machine". Yet guns are still being manufactured with light rails and people are carrying them on a regular basis with those modifications.

I remember at one time all of the controversy regarding hollow points and so called "cop killer bullets". I have yet to hear of anyone getting sued because they used them for self defense? After all they too turn your gun into a more efficient "killing machine". It could also be argued that by improving the action of a self defense weapon the shooter would be more accurate with their weapon and lesson the chance of killing or injuring an innocent bystander.

*In some state's that have stand your ground laws. If an individual was justified in using deadly physical force they can't be held civilly liable*. If you live in one of those states, I don't think that it would matter what type of firearm was used or if it had been modified? Dead is dead and the individual who was under attack was legally justified in killing their assailant. The gun was therefore used in a lawful manner for its intended purpose.

From the National Conference of State Legislatures:
Self-defense laws in at least 23 states (Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Montana, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee West Virginia and Wisconsin) *provide civil immunity under certain self- defense circumstances. *


Self Defense and “Stand Your Ground”



*Modifications to a **firearm that could easily result in an accidental discharge is an entirely different matter.* Modifications such as altering a firearms safety systems or modifying the trigger to the point that any amount of movement could set it off. You'd be walking around with an accident waiting to happen. Polishing out a guns internal parts is really not that much different than firing a thousand or so rounds out of it. The so called break in period. The only difference between an aluminum, steel or polymer trigger shoe is the material that it's made of.

There is no reason in the world why anyone with a mechanical aptitude and an understanding of how the gun that they're working on operates. Shouldn't be able to successfully work on their own gun(s). *If they don't have those abilities, then ABSOLUTELY NOT. *

*Able to be sued for use of hollow point? - USA Carry*
www.usacarry.com › forums › deadly-force-and-the-law
To my knowledge, there is no law against hollow point bullets except in NJ. A clever prosecutor could use the fact that you have hollow points to say that you were planning to use your weapon (ala Dirty Harry). But, you could be in trouble with jacketed rounds if one happened to go through the intended target and strike someone else.


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## Budlight_909 (Aug 31, 2020)

desertman said:


> Some of it is, some of it isn't.
> 
> It would probably depend on what type of modifications are made? If it was that much of a problem you'd think by now that all of the manufacturers and distributers of aftermarket parts and accessories would have been litigated out of business? *That's where the money is.* Same for gunsmiths who do any type of work on firearms. That being the case who would even want to be a gunsmith? As they work on thousands of guns during their lifetimes, some of which will be used in self defense situations with modifications/repairs that they performed. Laser sights, night sights, RMR sights, detachable flashlights are all modifications that some shyster lawyer could claim turns your gun into a more efficient "killing machine". Yet guns are still being manufactured with light rails and people are carrying them on a regular basis with those modifications.
> 
> ...


ok, well, i watcha few very good you tube videos, for very well know people. one is Paul Harrell.

if i recall, it was him that said someone he knows??? or a court trial he was following??? a guy modded his gun. the prosecutor was nailing that guy for doing such, as he wanted to kill people, not as much as defend himself.

now, i cannot recall word for word what Paul had said, but after I watched that video, and then going to a CCW class on the laws in my state, modding a gun that is to be used for self defense (CCW) , and (not the range toy), is just not in one's best interest, and to leave it bone stock...

as we all know, laws vary from state to state, maybe even with in state county lines as well.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Budlight_909 said:


> ok, well, i watcha few very good you tube videos, for very well know people. one is Paul Harrell.
> 
> if i recall, it was him that said someone he knows??? or a court trial he was following??? a guy modded his gun. the prosecutor was nailing that guy for doing such, as he wanted to kill people, not as much as defend himself.
> 
> ...


If you're hell bent on going out and killing a bunch of people an unmodified gun will do just fine. Of course lawyers will make up any cock and bull story to try and win a case. That's why they've rightfully earned the name "liars for hire".

As I mentioned in my previous post:* "It would probably depend on what type of modifications were made?"* I'm sure that if it was that big of a deal the "liars for hire" would have already sued the aftermarket parts manufacturers and distributers out of business. All they would need is just one case. They stand to make a lot more money out of them then some poor schmuck that bought one of their parts and put it in their gun. About the only manufacturer that I know of that is being sued is the one who made the bump stocks that Paddock used. A company that was forced to destroy their inventory of them after they were banned is suing the government for its losses. It will be interesting seeing how this plays out in court.

*Polishing out a guns internal parts is really no different than putting a thousand or so rounds out of a brand new gun. *Would that be considered modifying the gun? But how could anyone prove that? If you don't understand where I'm coming from regarding that then you probably haven't worked on guns? How about changing recoil springs to a different weight because the gun does not cycle properly with the stock set up and the type of ammo that is being used? Having a gun refinished or cerakoted could be considered a modification? Just changing the grips could be considered a modification? Same for changing the sights. Polishing the feed ramp and chamber could be considered a modification? Where does it end? I'd be willing to bet that thousands upon thousands of guns have been modified to some degree at one time or the other? If not there would be no market for OEM and aftermarket parts and accessories for them. Out of that there are probably hundreds of those so called modified guns that have already been used justifiably for self defense without any legal repercussions.

For a lot of people their so called range gun is their only gun. Why shouldn't they be able to modify it to their liking? Maybe the factory grips are too big or the sights not visible enough but the rest of the gun is perfect for their needs. Maybe the trigger needs a little work so they can be more accurate with it? Maybe the trigger's reach is too short or too long? Maybe they get hammer bite and want to swap out or "bob" the hammer? Out of the millions of people that own guns it would be nearly impossible and cost prohibitive to be able to tailor make one for every individuals needs and physical dimensions. None of those modifications make the gun more lethal, or compel people to go out on a shooting spree or fulfill some fantasy of wanting to kill someone. I doubt very much that criminals would even go to the trouble and expense of modifying a gun that they stole or bought on the black market?

At least in the state where I live you can not be held civilly liable in a case of clear cut justifiable self defense and you are not being charged by your local prosecutor. If you're not being charged and prosecuted your assailant or their family can not file suit against you at least not in state's that have stand your ground laws. We also have state preemption laws where municipalities and counties are prohibited from enacting laws that are more restrictive than the state's. Indeed every state is different.

As far as those you tube video's go I find them entertaining and you'll find all different opinions on just about any subject by any number of "experts". I too took a firearms safety course in order to get my CCW even though a CCW is not required in Arizona to carry a sidearm in public. I also took a more intensive tactical handgun course which covered the use of deadly physical force, along with state and federal firearms laws. None of those courses ever mentioned changing grips, sights, adding lasers or the use of aftermarket parts and accessories. I'm only guessing, but maybe it really wasn't that much of an issue to warrant it? Get caught legally defending yourself using a high capacity feeding devise as they are called in state's where they are prohibited and you'll be charged with a crime. Even if it was legal when you purchased the gun and the gun came standard with it.

Sorry I went long on this, but it had to be said.


*Texas company that destroyed bump stocks sues US government ...*
abcnews.go.com › US › wireStory
Apr 09, 2019 · FORT WORTH, Texas -- A Texas gun company that destroyed more than 73,000 bump stocks when a federal ban on the rapid-fire devices took effect has sued the U.S. government claiming millions of dollars in losses. RW Arms of Fort Worth on Monday announced the lawsuit and said the government took its property "without just compensation"


*Company behind bump stocks sued over Las Vegas massacre*
nypost.com › 2017/10/10 › company-behind-bump-stocks
Oct 10, 2017 · A gun-control group is suing the company that produces bump stocks — devices used by the Las Vegas shooter to make his rifles fire nearly as fast as machine guns — on behalf of the killer’s ...


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## Budlight_909 (Aug 31, 2020)

desertman said:


> If you're hell bent on going out and killing a bunch of people an unmodified gun will do just fine. Of course lawyers will make up any cock and bull story to try and win a case. That's why they've rightfully earned the name "liars for hire".
> 
> As I mentioned in my previous post:* "It would probably depend on what type of modifications were made?"* I'm sure that if it was that big of a deal the "liars for hire" would have already sued the aftermarket parts manufacturers and distributers out of business. All they would need is just one case. They stand to make a lot more money out of them then some poor schmuck that bought one of their parts and put it in their gun. About the only manufacturer that I know of that is being sued is the one who made the bump stocks that Paddock used. A company that was forced to destroy their inventory of them after they were banned is suing the government for its losses. It will be interesting seeing how this plays out in court.
> 
> ...


yes, bt there is a huge difference between a range toy, and a self/home defense weapon.

sorry it was so short, but i just had to say it.


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## DonPepe (Nov 11, 2018)

Jester560 said:


> What is everyone's thought on modding a carry gun?
> 
> I am awaiting the arrival of a Glock 29 10mm and already have a list of want to do mods as listed below:
> 
> ...


I changed several things in my Glock 23 gen 4...Trigger...now a Grant Defense, rabbit ears slide backplate for easier racking, at 80 years, my hands once in a while complain, larger slide stop and take down bar, Mepro Night Sights...and a nice TC laser sight...that's all...The photo is my 19, transfered all the mods to the 23..Identical.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Budlight_909 said:


> yes, bt there is a huge difference between a range toy, and a self/home defense weapon.
> 
> sorry it was so short, but i just had to say it.


Myself I don't have any range toys. I practice with the guns that I carry and may have to depend on. What good is having a self/home defense weapon if you can't be assured that it will work 100% of the time?

Sorry it was so short, but i just had to say it.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

desertman said:


> Myself I don't have any range toys. I practice with the guns that I carry and may have to depend on. What good is having a self/home defense weapon if you can't be assured that it will work 100% of the time?
> 
> Sorry it was so short, but i just had to say it.


I don't plan on being short or sorry, but I just have to say it.
My G19 with the Ghost Evo Elite trigger system is very very close to the stock OEM trigger on my G34, The main difference is the Evo Elite trigger has NO overtravel and in turn has a shorter reset. The weight of the triggers are nearly identical. My recollection is that the Gen III G34 had +- 3.5# trigger pull from the factory while the G19 Gen III was set up with around 5.5# of pull.
Regardless, I shoot them both equally well and have no worries about safety with either gun.
Whoops! I nearly neglected to disparage those who choose to buy substandard guns and brag about the $150 they saved whilst throwing shade at the guys who buy QUALITY and only cry once.
Just kidding, I think it would be fun to see how many .380 rounds it takes to drop a skunk rather than using a single round of a proper defense cartridge.
Sarcasm? Perhaps?


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## Budlight_909 (Aug 31, 2020)

desertman said:


> Myself I don't have any range toys. I practice with the guns that I carry and may have to depend on. What good is having a self/home defense weapon if you can't be assured that it will work 100% of the time?
> 
> Sorry it was so short, but i just had to say it.


my self defense gun(s) get to the range once per month. all others that i have, are for fun.

short and sweet, had to say it.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Budlight_909 said:


> my self defense gun(s) get to the range once per month. all others that i have, are for fun.
> 
> short and sweet, had to say it.


All of my guns I have for fun whether I'm going out into the desert target shooting, carrying any particular one or working on them. Even the one's that I own that serve no practical purpose other than I like them.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Other than that Taran Tactical Glock I am waiting on, ALL my guns are for self defense. I changed my collection in years past, and am not really into range toys.

Years ago, it was the opposite. I had a ton of stuff, and only carried 1 or 2 of them...

So, I generally don't mess with triggers and such... (other than the factory D spring for Berettas, that I already mentioned).


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> Other than that Taran Tactical Glock I am waiting on, ALL my guns are for self defense. I changed my collection in years past, and am not really into range toys.
> 
> Years ago, it was the opposite. I had a ton of stuff, and only carried 1 or 2 of them...
> 
> So, I generally don't mess with triggers and such... (other than the factory D spring for Berettas, that I already mentioned).


I've never changed my collection other than adding to it. It's now gotten to the point where I have all of the one's that I've ever wanted. Unless someone comes out with something new and exciting that's about it for me. I've gone into several different gun stores looking for something new and different but often walk out empty handed. My last gun was HK's VP 9 Long slide which I've wanted for a long time but never found any available until recently. So I didn't hesitate in buying it.

I don't know? If I had that Taran Tactical Glock I'd definitely carry it. That's one awesome looking Glock. You're tempting me in wanting to send one of mine out. Probably one of my G30's as I already have two of them a Gen 2 and a Gen 3. But I don't know if I'd want to wait that long or even if they do 45's? I really like my Shadow Systems MR918. I contacted them about making their version of a G30 .45. But it seems like they're only interested in making 9's? They just came out with a long slide version of their MR920 and a full size DR920. The MR918 is no longer being produced. 

Next on my want list would be an HK VP 45 or even better yet a VP 45 SK. I'd even settle for a VP 40 SK. But I think that I'm gonna' have a helluva' long wait for one of those? 9's seem to be the rage nowadays with .45's and especially 40's falling out of favor. I recently added a stainless steel threaded barrel and compensator for my VP 9. For no reason other than it looks pretty cool. I already swapped out the trigger shoe for an all aluminum Lobos one. It doesn't change the factory weight, I just like the feel and looks of an all metal trigger.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Goldwing said:


> I don't plan on being short or sorry, but I just have to say it.
> My G19 with the Ghost Evo Elite trigger system is very very close to the stock OEM trigger on my G34, The main difference is the Evo Elite trigger has NO overtravel and in turn has a shorter reset. The weight of the triggers are nearly identical. My recollection is that the Gen III G34 had +- 3.5# trigger pull from the factory while the G19 Gen III was set up with around 5.5# of pull.
> Regardless, I shoot them both equally well and have no worries about safety with either gun.
> Whoops! I nearly neglected to disparage those who choose to buy substandard guns and brag about the $150 they saved whilst throwing shade at the guys who buy QUALITY and only cry once.
> ...


I have a very select and rather small group of handguns which I maintain in my primary carry stable. These comprise several Glocks (gen3's) and several M&P's. Every one of them has received mods. With the exception of the sights and the trigger springs, both Glocks contain Glock parts and the mods were done by me. Both of the M&P's have high quality after market parts. All of these guns are about as close to 100% reliable as they can be and all meet my own personal requirements for a carry gun. I have other carry guns in my secondary carry stable and they remain OEM stock.


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## JohnCEa (Jan 20, 2020)

Reason I carry stock pistol is if I ever had to use it I may not ever get it back. I lost a HK in a court case that was ran by a liberal judge. So stock glocks are built to run cheap and easily replaced.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

JohnCEa said:


> Reason I carry stock pistol is if I ever had to use it I may not ever get it back. I lost a HK in a court case that was ran by a liberal judge. So stock glocks are built to run cheap and easily replaced.


I don't know maybe it's just me? But if I ever had to shoot someone in self defense the last thing that I'd be concerned about is if or when I get the gun back.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

JohnCEa said:


> Reason I carry stock pistol is if I ever had to use it I may not ever get it back. I lost a HK in a court case that was ran by a liberal judge.


Your reasoning for carrying a stock pistol sounds like a dumbass padding a new post count.


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## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

JohnCEa said:


> Reason I carry stock pistol is if I ever had to use it I may not ever get it back. I lost a HK in a court case that was ran by a liberal judge. So stock glocks are built to run cheap and easily replaced.


Sounds like a good argument for carrying a Hi Point.


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## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

Goldwing said:


> Your reasoning for carrying a stock pistol sounds like a dumbass padding a new post count.


I guess the same could be said about me. Only an asshat would make a post like this and accuse someone else of padding a post count. How many of your 3,xxx posts have been as useless as this one?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Jester560 said:


> I guess the same could be said about me. Only an asshat would make a post like this and accuse someone else of padding a post count. How many of your 3,xxx posts have been as useless as this one?


Eight posts in one day on every subject recently posted. I think that would be padding.
If you want to check my record have at it. Ass hat? I don't think so.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Goldwing said:


> Eight posts in one day on every subject recently posted. I think that would be padding.
> If you want to check my record have at it. Ass hat? I don't think so.


Let's calm it down please. And, I gotta say - he is entitled to his opinion. And, he is free to post on different threads. I am on just about every gun forum there is - and I jump around and post on many threads all within an hour sometimes. So what?

He is also free to give his own opinion. I do not necessarily agree Jester's view, but for a different reason.

I too refuse to carry a gun that has had any trigger work or major mods. But it is not for financial reasons. If a $2000 unmodified gun is my carry gun, and the gun saved my life - it did its job. If it gets taken or damaged while in police custody... That's life. I want the gun that I shoot the best, to get an edge in the crazy, unlikelihood I will need it one day. If it is expensive, it is expensive. So what.

But please lets cut down on the insults. Thanks


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

I sometimes change grips or sights on my carry guns but nothing else if they're reliable. Maybe Talon Grips, different grips or grip sleeves. Tritium-powered sights for night, fiber optic for day. I tend to experiment a lot more with my range guns. Trigger kits, springs, mods, etc.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

When I was still carrying a Glock the only mods or changes I made were what I considered practical, based on problems I encountered while shooting.

Better sights for low light. Grip texture, because sweating in high humidity did give me some grip challenges With long strings of fire.

that was pretty much it. I mean, I did cut my G17 grip to get G19 mags to fit it, which only has a certain level of practicality. But other than that, factory parts.


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## Clingun (Jan 5, 2021)

Has anyone been advised by their CPL instructor not to modify the trigger pull on their carry pistol? Changing action springs is acceptable however should a trigger spring be changed to lighten the pull, it can be used against the CPL holder should a shooting be reviewed as that person is a vigilante type and looking for a fight, that is what I have been told by an instructor.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Find me a prosecuting attorney who wknow# the difference in hammer spring weights.

you are either justified in a shooting or you are guilty of some level of negligence or malfeasance. Lots of folks always make claims about gun modifications being used in court against someone. Most cannot cite a trigger modification, being a real issue. Fruity stuff like skulls and bumper sticker phrases engraved on a firearm probably would do more to sway a jury on mentality and attitude In the direction of someone going and looking for a fight. Biggest thing to worry about is that you were justified in employing a firearm and shooting someone. The rest is mostly internet speculation.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

If it were a knife involved action, would the prosecution be concerned with the keen edge on the knife?
If the attacker used a bat, does the length or weight cause the jury to be either lenient or harsh in their judgement?
If those two questions can be answered both yes or both no is up for discussion.
My humble opinion is that @SSGN_Docs' last two sentences in his well thought out post should be your first concern.


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## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

Clingun said:


> Has anyone been advised by their CPL instructor not to modify the trigger pull on their carry pistol? Changing action springs is acceptable however should a trigger spring be changed to lighten the pull, it can be used against the CPL holder should a shooting be reviewed as that person is a vigilante type and looking for a fight, that is what I have been told by an instructor.


I have yet to meet one person that can show me case law where the outcome of the trial was affected by modifications to the gun or by the ammo being self made vs factory loads.


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## casurvivor (Jan 23, 2015)

I carry HKs or Sigs just saying...............


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Budlight_909 said:


> ok, well, i watcha few very good you tube videos, for very well know people. one is Paul Harrell.
> 
> if i recall, it was him that said someone he knows??? or a court trial he was following??? a guy modded his gun. the prosecutor was nailing that guy for doing such, as he wanted to kill people, not as much as defend himself.
> 
> ...


I posed this very question to an attorney in my state who specialized in defending people who were forced to use deadly force in their defense. He told me that the gorilla in the room is whether nor not it was a good shoot, not any mods you have done on the gun or what ammunition you used. Now this was perhaps 12+ years ago but that was his take at that time.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Shipwreck said:


> I have done some modifications to guns before, but not usually to a carry gun... Other than sights. The one exception is to the Beretta 92. I have installed a factory "D" spring to take 3lbs off the DA pull. But, it is still a factory part, and some factory 92 variants come with the spring already installed.
> 
> Other than that, I only keep guns that are modified as range toys, personally.


Yeah, I'm the same way. Don't want to have to answer in court, just in case I had to use it to defend myself, why I modified the gun from the factory....man, I have read some horror stories on that. No thanks, but for a gun that you would compete with or just to say "hey man, look what I did"! Yeah, no problem.


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## SGWGunsmith (Jan 8, 2015)

Modification:* "To change, particularly in form, etc."*
Well, I have certainly "modded" my Glock Model 23 to fit my personal needs, after shooting this pistol over several months.
I've added a sleeve to the grip for more comfortable shooting and then had the pistol *Mag-Na-Ported*, for better muzzle control, again, to MY liking. If that's not considered 'modification', I'd sure like to know what is?
















This is my main carry pistol when the weather commands thicker, warmer, clothing to be the norm.


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