# Looking for a new CCW pistol



## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

I currently carry a Springfield XD 45 in a IWB holster.

While on travel I went to a local gun range with my son and rented a 45 ACP Sig (P220 I think) and one of the newer Glock 9mm.

I really liked the trigger pull on the Sig compared to my XD and the Glock.

I was considering switching to a Sig for CCW EDC but I have also been thinking about a Kimber.

I haven't looked at any stats on the Kimber so I'm not sure what the trigger pull is like on any of them.

I don't want to have a trigger job or replacement done on anything I am using for EDC, not because of the cost but if that day ever comes I don't want to be portrayed as some kind of psycho killer who isn't happy unless he can kill a man with minimal effort. So...whatever it comes with out of the box is what I'm going to have.

Any thoughts here on Kimber vs Sig for CCW or perhaps a suggestion for something else?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I would google Kimber customer service before buying.

GW


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

tgrogan said:


> I currently carry a Springfield XD 45 in a IWB holster.
> 
> While on travel I went to a local gun range with my son and rented a 45 ACP Sig (P220 I think) and one of the newer Glock 9mm.
> 
> ...


The Sig P220 is kinda' big for CCW EDC. You'll have to dress appropriately. But I guess you're already aware of that if you're carrying an XD 45? The Sig is a DA/SA semi auto compared to the striker fired XD 45 and Glock. The Kimber's are 1911 style SA semi auto's. They have a safety and should be carried cocked and locked. You may want to consider an HK 45 C if it's a DA/SA semi auto you're after. It's lighter and more compact than the Sig or Kimber assuming you're looking at a full size Kimber. If you're sold on the Sig you may want to look at the P227 or the P227 SAS. The P227 is a double stack version of the P220. The SAS version has a shorter barrel, no light rail and all of the edges have been rounded.


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## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

goldwing said:


> I would google Kimber customer service before bbuying.
> 
> GW


Yeah, I've heard....seems like most people's opinions are...well...one side or the other...not a lot of middle ground. I think I just needed one more person to say it...lol.


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## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

@desertman

Yes, I have been carrying the older XD 45 compact; shorter grip, 5" barrel. I definitely changed my usual apparel when I started carrying.

I'll look into the HK and the P227...the 8rnd capacity of the P220 was a little less than what I have with the XD.

Thanks for the suggestions!


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

I really love the Sig P220 and probably the P227 but never had one. I have one I purchased in 1976 and have put tons of rounds though it over the years, as well as a lot in competition. After around 10,000 plus rounds through it, I had all new springs put in it, but it never failed once except when I used some funky test handloads I was trying out. It probably has over 20,000 through it now. It pretty much has eaten everything all the time even after a 3-4 day event without cleaning. I bought another in the early 1980's and it's the same way. Flawless, but has about half the round count.

In fact, I may buy another. I'm looking at the P220 Elite Stainless with Rosewood grips. It's a little pricey, but very nice.










Or a P227 with these grips.

https://www.hogueinc.com/sig-sauer-p227-da-sa-goncalo-screws-and-bushings-included


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Craigh said:


> *I really love the Sig P220 and probably the P227 but never had one*. I have one I purchased in 1976 and have put tons of rounds though it over the years, as well as a lot in competition. After around 10,000 plus rounds through it, I had all new springs put in it, but it never failed once except when I used some funky test handloads I was trying out. It probably has over 20,000 through it now. It pretty much has eaten everything all the time even after a 3-4 day event without cleaning. I bought another in the early 1980's and it's the same way. Flawless, but has about half the round count.
> 
> In fact, I may buy another. I'm looking at the P220 Elite Stainless with Rosewood grips. It's a little pricey, but very nice.
> 
> ...


One's a single stack the other a double stack, that's about it. The top end of both guns are interchangeable. Of my two P227's I like the SAS version best, because of its rounded edges and lack of a rail. My only issue with the P227 is for a gun that size it should hold more rounds instead of ten. If Glock can stuff nine rounds into their G30 who's magazine is 1 1/8 inch shorter I see no reason why Sig can't at least get twelve into their's? Coincidentally the Glock 13 round magazine is about the same size as the Sig ten round. Unless you want a single shot .45? Sig's TACOPS 14 round magazines for the P227 are garbage, at least mine is. I can't figure out why as they are identical in every respect to the 10 round magazines except they are longer? I've had no issues whatsoever with any of the six 10 round mags that I have for those guns. Because of its compact size and magazine options, I think the Glock G30 is the best .45 for concealed carry, it accepts 9, 10, 13 and Kriss Mag X 30 round magazines.


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## Mr.Smith (Aug 1, 2018)

The best advice i can think of is try several and see which you like best. Which feels best in your hand. What caliber preference? Go with what you're most comfortable with. I love Glock for example. G17 or 19 depending on mood I guess. I also carry 1911 in .45. Again it depends on you. Carry what you shoot well with. Be safe and shoot often.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

desertman said:


> One's a single stack the other a double stack, that's about it. The top end of both guns are interchangeable. Of my two P227's I like the SAS version best, because of its rounded edges and lack of a rail. My only issue with the P227 is for a gun that size it should hold more rounds instead of ten. If Glock can stuff nine rounds into their G30 who's magazine is 1 1/8 inch shorter I see no reason why Sig can't at least get twelve into their's?


Personally for me and only me, capacity in 45 ACP between 10 and 12 rounds would not be a deal breaker. Besides, I know and love my P220 handguns. I shoot them excessively well even out to 25 yards. Those big 45 caliber balls go where I want them to go. Moreover, I completely trust their reliability. I've had more failures from my Glock M19 yet have shot it much less. I also like that the Sig P220/P227 are not polymer wonder guns.

Besides, I absolutely detest Glock, admittedly in an unfair manner. I admit they're fine guns, but it seems every newby at the public ranges have a Glock and it's their first gun and all they know. They can't hit the darn target at a arm's distance and will sweep that muzzle at everyone there. I've been swept by the muzzle of a Glock more times than all others combined would be my guess. When I say something, I usually get a smartazz answer like, "Don't be a range Nazi, it's not loaded." Same in the gun store. The clerk hands them a Glock and they start racking and snapping while pointing around the store. It's not the gun, I know, but it's the beginners who ask to look at a Glock. It's all they know. Glocks are cool to them. Many are like wealthier Taurus owners. I'd just rather go down the road less traveled. Again, I know I'm not being fair about it, but so be it.

Side note: I also know there's a lot of experienced and safe Glock lovers. I just see so many of the other type.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Craigh said:


> Personally for me and only me, capacity in 45 ACP between 10 and 12 rounds would not be a deal breaker. Besides, I know and love my P220 handguns. I shoot them excessively well even out to 25 yards. Those big 45 caliber balls go where I want them to go. Moreover, I completely trust their reliability. I've had more failures from my Glock M19 yet have shot it much less. I also like that the Sig P220/P227 are not polymer wonder guns.
> 
> Besides, I absolutely detest Glock, admittedly in an unfair manner. I admit they're fine guns, *but it seems every newby at the public ranges have a Glock and it's their first gun and all they know.* They can't hit the darn target at a arm's distance and will sweep that muzzle at everyone there. I've been swept by the muzzle of a Glock more times than all others combined would be my guess. When I say something, I usually get a smartazz answer like, "Don't be a range Nazi, it's not loaded." Same in the gun store. The clerk hands them a Glock and they start racking and snapping while pointing around the store. It's not the gun, I know, but it's the beginners who ask to look at a Glock. It's all they know. Glocks are cool to them. Many are like wealthier Taurus owners. I'd just rather go down the road less traveled. Again, I know I'm not being fair about it, but so be it.
> 
> Side note: I also know there's a lot of experienced and safe Glock lovers. I just see so many of the other type.


At one time I swore I'd never ever own a Glock or any polymer framed gun for that matter, but curiosity got ahold of me and I bought my first one, a G30. Of all the polymer framed guns I like HK's the best. They were the first to make a polymer framed pistol and have perfected them to a "T". I only wish they made a VP45 SK the size of the G30. I like my compact .45's. One advantage to a polymer framed gun is that the grip frame is not as bulky as on a metal framed gun as there are no grip panels. They're lightweight, durable as all hell and there's no finish to wear off. Glocks have very few moving parts, and are about the easiest guns to work on and maintain. There's almost an endless resource of both aftermarket and factory parts available for them. As far as the cool factor? Glocks are not exactly pretty, they're no frills all business kind of guns. Although I'll have to admit I've acquired a taste for their looks. I like to be able to cram in as many rounds possible into the smallest grip frame. Glock wins hands down in that regard. Of the metal framed guns Sig wins hands down for quality of construction in my opinion. God knows I've got 8 of them. My only issue with them is that they are bulky for the amount of rounds they hold. It never hurts to have as many rounds as possible, especially in a compact gun.

It's not a matter of being fair or not, you like what you like, have your reasons and at least own guns from a reputable manufacturer. I don't know about wealthier Taurus owners? Unless of course they acquired their wealth by being cheap and miserly? I certainly would not want to work for people like that. The only people that I have known personally that bought a Taurus are people who aren't really interested in guns and didn't want to spend a penny more than what they had to. They're the throw it in a drawer and forget about it types of people. Obviously not all Taurus owners but all the one's I know. Sorry to all you Taurus lovers, but that's been my personal observation.

Glocks or any striker fired guns are not for beginners as there are no manual safeties and they don't have long heavy trigger pulls as on a DA/SA semi auto. But to be honest with you I've never seen anyone playing around with them while in a gun store at least not here in Arizona. Maybe it's because there's a lot of people here that have been brought up around guns for most of their lives? But I can't say for sure? I rarely if ever go to a range, I prefer to go out into the middle of nowhere where there's nobody around except for my wife. The only time I've been to a range was to qualify for my concealed weapons permit and a tactical handgun course.

As you can see I do like my Sig's.


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## crewchief (Jul 25, 2018)

I too swore I'd never own a plastic pos glock back in 80s!! That said a few years ago I bought a G22 and a G19 and they are pretty cool weapons. I favor the G22 cuz I love the shorty forty.. I'm now making my edc gun my Sig P226 40sw, might as well I shoot it all the time anyway. With the poper belt and holster it's not hard to carry my Sig under a t-shirt.. Whatever you choose,,, shoot it like you stole it,, practice alot!!!


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## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

desertman said:


> Glocks or any striker fired guns are not for beginners as there are no manual safeties and they don't have long heavy trigger pulls as on a DA/SA semi auto.


What would you consider a heavy trigger pull?

I looked up the trigger weight on a Glock I rented and on my XD and they were both about 7.5 lbs which was pretty close to the DA pull on the Sig P220. I liked the SA follow up pull a lot, around 4 or 5...can't remember exactly.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

tgrogan said:


> Yeah, I've heard....seems like most people's opinions are...well...one side or the other...not a lot of middle ground. I think I just needed one more person to say it...lol.


Kimber's 5" 1911s are pretty reliable. When you start getting into their smaller 1911s and some of their other small guns, then you are taking some chances


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

I would keep the .45 XD over the Kimber. The 1911 style Kimber's I've shot and seen fired were not what you would call "Stake your life on reliable." The Micro-9 I found too small for me and stung the hand a bit. Accurate though, with the laser aiming device. The thing is do you want to buy from a company that tells you stoppages are normal in a new gun you just paid $1400.00 for? Just put 500 rounds through it to break it in. I would still be screaming if it was my gun. My Son fired his Springfield XD .45 100 rounds out of the box without a problem. I'm a CZ guy, but the Springfield would be right up there with the Beretta Storm as my second choice.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck said:


> Kimber's 5" 1911s are pretty reliable. When you start getting into their smaller 1911s and some of their other small guns, then you are taking some chances


I haven't had any issues with any of the Kimber's I own. Even the Solo Carry, but I've only put, I'm guessing about 100 rounds out of it. Others have had more than their share of problems with that particular gun. Which is a shame because it feels good, and makes for an excellent carry gun especially for pocket carry. However because of those known problems I just wouldn't take a chance carrying it. Murphy's law I guess? From what I understand is that Kimber dropped them in favor of their Micro 9? The Micro 9 is a nice little gun, I just didn't like that it has a plastic mainspring housing. I swapped mine out for an aluminum one.

At least it has been my experience that their 4 inch model 1911's are better because they have ramped barrels. The biggest advantage of a ramped barrel is that the aluminum frames will not wear out as the entire feed ramp is made of stainless steel and part of the barrel itself. I don't know why Kimber did not incorporate that into their 5 inch models as well? Ramped barrels seem to be able to chamber rounds a lot more efficiently especially with all different types of bullets. As they don't have two separate feed ramps, one on the frame and the other on the barrel as on a typical 1911. Kimber's also use metal injection molding (MIM) parts as do most manufacturers these days. That scares some people.

Kimber's K6s .357 revolver is an excellent revolver, better than all the rest in my opinion. They really hit it out of the park with that one. It's probably got the best double action trigger straight outta' the box than any other revolver on the market today. It is an extremely well made handgun. The fit and finish both inside and out is outstanding.


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## Superzuki (Jul 22, 2016)

For IWB carry I'd recommend a Sig P229. My IWB 45 is a Sig 1911....not real light but slender and easy to carry.


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## blackshirt (Jan 12, 2018)

I wouldn't get caught up on triggers for a self defense gun...A range gun is another story.
Their is a few bad ones out there and......Well we have covered that before.
As long as it isn't so light it is unsafe or so heavy you need a bench vise to pull it.
Comfortable carry and feel in the hand to me are more important than splitting hairs on a triggers.


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## tgrogan (Sep 4, 2007)

Superzuki said:


> For IWB carry I'd recommend a Sig P229. My IWB 45 is a Sig 1911....not real light but slender and easy to carry.


Well decided to check out the Sig offerings and while I initially went looking for one of the striker models, I eventually ended up with a P229 with the Romeo 1 Reflex sight.

The more I use it, the more I like it...now I just have to find an IWB holster that accommodates the RMR.


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## mobile 155 (Sep 21, 2018)

I have to say those of you that live in cooler climates must have an advantage with your CCW weapons. I don't feel all that comfortable to carry and not print with anything bigger than a M&P shield. My Firestorm works well but I couldn't carry a 226 in the summer here. I can hide a Small 380 or 9mm with a IWB holster and a light shirt perhaps just one size too big. With the 226 or most 1911s and many Glocks I have to wait till winter and light jacket or even coat time.


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