# 9 Dead in Waco, Texas (Biker Gang Shootout) What is going on???



## muckaleewarrior (Aug 10, 2014)

This is crazy!

9 dead in Waco, Texas, shooting - CNN.com


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

From another news outlet's story:
"...Trouble at Twin Peaks among rival bikers had been brewing for some time, District Attorney Abel Reyna told News 10 about two weeks ago. Reyna said local police were on heightened alert in anticipation of trouble on Thursday nights, when Twin Peaks hosts a Biker Night. Reyna said some weeks ago trouble erupted between two local motorcycle gangs and that spilled over into gangs from the Dallas-Fort Worth area showing up to support the local groups."

Since everyone already knew that trouble was brewing, one might think that the police would either politely ask the Twin Peaks restaurant to stop hosting "biker night," or would get an enforceable restraining order and proactively patrol the place. But no...not in Waco.

Remembering the equally crazy and unnecessary Branch Davidian massacre, I think that Waco, Texas, should change its name. I strongly suggest "Whack-o," or even "Wacky."


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

muckaleewarrior:


> This is crazy!


Not if you belong to an outlaw motorcycle gang. It's all part of their lifestyle. I don't understand it, but then again I'm not an outlaw biker. Being a "gearhead" I know a lot of bikers, all good people who love their Harley's. A lot of them are Viet Nam vets who look pretty bad ass, but are some of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. Hate to see them harassed over incidents such as this.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Well - if that would be liberal correct wanted we wouldn't even know it happen.
For me a simple teaching moment. 
When for months and months, liberals shooting, killing, looting entire cities like Boston, Ferguson..... tyhan is that a welcome act of demonstrating for a good cause and we have to understand and even find that good or else... If the Gang is white and not liberal motivated militant and controlled by the democratic party and labor unions, than it is evil. I saw the pictures in ABC. Do you guys really believe the police could that do to the demonstrators in Waco it they would be black and belong to the Obamas or El Sharpton paramilitary street fighters?


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The bottom line here, so far, is that the Waco police and State Troopers intervened when violence erupted, and contained it to the point that no one was killed but the people who started the whole thing.

Now...while there may be plenty of fault to go around for allowing this idiocy to get out of hand, there are still very few (if any) such recent incidents to compare with this that have achieved such results. Texas law enforcement agencies are not known for intervening before laws are broken. They are, however, pretty consistent in re-establishing law and order, once the law _has_ been broken. Isn't this an indication that civil liberties are properly observed, according to law, and that citizens are allowed to practice their civil liberties, until doing so violates other people's civil liberties? Nobody looks good, when something like this happens, but the alternative is to intervene before any crime has actually been committed, and that's something we have seen too much of, with much worse results.

Personally, I'll wait until the media circus subsides, and see what the actual facts are.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

@ Bisley
*Personally, I'll wait until the media circus subsides, and see what the actual facts are.*
For me the best statement since a long time.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I was disappointed that it was only nine.


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> I was disappointed that it was only nine.




Thanks for my Monday Chuckle (tm)


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## shootbrownelk (May 18, 2014)

9 dead outlaw (1%'ers) bikers....I'd call that a good start. Who cares?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...And the restaurant, previously warned by the cops, has been shut down permanently. :smt023


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

What's wrong with a good public shootout amongst friends ?


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Whether you "buy into it" or not, this is interesting reading in places:

Here's What People Are Saying About The Waco Shootout And Race : Code Switch : NPR

Cue rebuttal from PT111Pro in 3... 2... 1...


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

SailDesign said:


> Whether you "buy into it" or not, this is interesting reading in places:
> 
> Here's What People Are Saying About The Waco Shootout And Race : Code Switch : NPR
> 
> Cue rebuttal from PT111Pro in 3... 2... 1...


...Very good point made by that...essay?...about the, um, appearance of the way that the biker riot has been handled.
I tend to agree with the point being made, but with some reservations.


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Very good point made by that...essay?...about the, um, appearance of the way that the biker riot has been handled.
> I tend to agree with the point being made, but with some reservations.


I tend to agree. I also feel the word "appearance" could well be the most important one in your reply.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

SailDesign:
If not "PT" I'll be happy to play devils advocate. If I'm not mistaken the "outlaw bikers" didn't burn down Waco along with looting any businesses that were located there. Hell, the restaurant is still standing. It was also reported that the police may have shot and killed as many as four "outlaw bikers". They did open fire whether they killed anyone is unknown at this time. How many rioters were shot and killed by police during the riots in Ferguson or Baltimore? In Baltimore the good Mayor restrained the police from acting. Maybe it would be better off if the "outlaw bikers" were allowed to go out into the middle of nowhere have their little war and let Darwin take over. I guess in comparing the two instances it would appear that the police were more restrained during the riots. 170 "outlaw bikers" have been arrested each one being held on $1,000,000 bond. By looking at the pictures they didn't put up any resistance. Fanning the flames of racism. I guess what else can we expect from NPR?


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## ybnorml (Nov 26, 2014)

Waiting for the truth to come out, as all we are hearing is hear-say (or what the media wants us to hear) !!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

ybnorml:


> Waiting for the truth to come out, as all we are hearing is hear-say (or what the media wants us to hear) !!


Truth to come out? I don't think that the truth will ever come out. Only propaganda from the likes of so-called news organizations with an agenda such as NPR. Who are trying their hardest to paint a picture of racist cops who are out to get only blacks or other minorities. They can pick and choose from thousands of photographs to support their cause and or agenda. Nothing good will ever become of it. They could care less. Their goal is to further divide this nation and to increase racial tensions among people of different races or ethnicities. For what constructive purpose? I really don't know. They have lost any and all credibility as far as I'm concerned. Objective journalists? Bullshit!


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

NPR is on the same level as smegma and Al Sharpton. I mean really. Who else would fire Juan Williams for being non-PC?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

TurboHonda:


> Who else would fire Juan Williams for being non-PC?


Possibly ABC, after all they hired George Stephanopoulos for 105 million as a supposed journalist. Can you imagine they were actually going to have him as a moderator for the upcoming presidential debates? He has since recused himself. Gee I wonder why? Could it be because he got caught donating 75 grand to the Clinton Foundation not to mention he was their political hatchet man. Guess he had no other choice. Still has his job though. Who the hell do these people think they are fooling? They must really believe that people are that stupid? Then again too many are. I have no problem with journalists expressing their political opinions, but for Christ's sake do not try to pretend to be non-partisan. I think that all journalists should be required to wear a large (D) or an (R) on their person clearly visible to their viewers. So those who are not that observant will have no doubt as to what their political affiliation is. After all there are millions of adult Americans who have no idea who the vice president is, yet they vote.

There is hope though, CNN doesn't seem to be buying all the Clinton bullshit as I assumed they would this time around. With Obama it was an absolute love fest as it was with all the major news networks except of course FOX. Indeed FOX is somewhat partisan too only on the Republican side, and I'll have to admit to my liking. However, all of the other news networks are heavily Democratic. Without FOX the Republican viewpoint would indeed be silenced, which is just what the other networks want. When certain stories broke regarding Democratic misdeeds or out right lies that would portray Democratic politicians in a negative light. I would often comment: News you will not hear on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC or PBS. Watching the gun control debates after a mass murder took place brought out their true colors as they were anything but fair and objective. Same for Ferguson now Baltimore even the Amtrak derailment. With the train derailment before the facts were known they were all screaming "infrastructure, infrastructure" turned out to be excessive speed that caused it. Remember, "Hands up don't shoot"? All a fabricated lie, yet they continued to perpetuate that lie even after it was proven to be false. That is all except FOX. So yeah I'll place more of my faith and trust in that network. I just wish to hell all the major networks would just report the news and not try and make the news.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Very good point made by that...essay?...about the, um, appearance of the way that the biker riot has been handled.
> I tend to agree with the point being made, but with some reservations.


What point do you agree with?

I tend to believe that the bikers were smart enough to submit to police authority, once the police demonstrated a willingness and an ability to force them to submit. I believe that is the way police forces are expected to function. The differences between what you see from the Waco police and what you see from Baltimore police is due to leadership and community support - nothing else.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I agree that in many cases, depending upon the agency involved, White malefactors get handled somewhat more gently that are Black ones. That is, racism still exists.

I believe that it is also possible that many of these "outlaw" bikers are ex-service-members, and therefore already used to submission to authority.

And, yes, Waco cops are probably better led and probably do receive more community support than Baltimore cops.

And also, yes, the Branch Davidian stupidity had absolutely nothing to do with the Waco Police Department.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Also a view on the things that happen The bikers side:
BIKER TRUTHERS EMERGE CALLING WACO SHOOTOUT A 'POLICE MASSACRE'
Biker Truthers Emerge Calling Waco Shootout a 'Police Massacre'


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## Sgt45 (Jun 8, 2012)

Truth? I'm afraid we'll never know the real truth on this one. Police massacre? Well it wouldn't be the first time in Waco. Did it really happen? Who knows.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Sorry I don't really know what happen. I just found that in the world wide web. 
But is it possible? Sure. The Police forces shot at woman, children and the old and handicapped since the governments created that force.
Are all police doing that? No sure not but you will find in each and every police station officers that do whatever they get ask for. They would kill their own children for a career opportunity.
I was not in Waco, but I lived on all continents and many nations and saw first hand what the police is able to do if a politician ask them for. 
What happen in Waco, no one will ever know and the one that do know, they keep their mouth shut for sure (it is much healthier that way).


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Sgt45 said:


> Truth? I'm afraid we'll never know the real truth on this one. Police massacre? Well it wouldn't be the first time in Waco. Did it really happen? Who knows.


We may. A major effort was made to preserve forensic evidence, and at least three state LE agencies and the FBI are processing the evidence and conducting interrogations/interviews. You can bet that controversy will arise when the lawyers start getting to see the evidence, but it might get sorted out properly, in time. The people in this article cannot have all the facts yet, and they are not unbiased.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> Bisley
> The people in this article cannot have all the facts yet, and they are not unbiased.


That is way I said I don't know what happen and regardless if the FBI or someone else in the system investigator's I don't trust the outcome. Something had changed in the USA. A never ever heard of liberal witch hunt had started by liberals against law enforcement, protecting mostly black career criminals and multi murderers regardless of skin color.
The outcome of investigation of FBI and others police units is very questionable and have to be politically correct. Evidence have to be interpreted in line with liberal political demands and media blackmail. Anyone still don't get it what bias the media has after the Stephanopulus debacle and Clinton? Anyone still dreaming? 
Everything else is a dream. Or do you really believe that today a federal agency like thew FBI can have an investigation outcome that is not political correct in this liberal climate?

Is here still a active law enforcement officer that didn't get the political correct demand and what is expected from him or her?

Do you really think that I have no reason to distrust the liberal political correct investigations? Really?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

PT111Pro said:


> Also a view on the things that happen The bikers side:
> BIKER TRUTHERS EMERGE CALLING WACO SHOOTOUT A 'POLICE MASSACRE'
> Biker Truthers Emerge Calling Waco Shootout a 'Police Massacre'


Golly, those poor, misunderstood bikers.
It was only a scuffle in the toilet.
Which spilled out into the parking lot.
And then became a knife fight.

And then those nasty police people started shooting.

But the bikers really were only settling their differences in a (biker)-gentlemanly way.
And the nasty police over-reacted and arrested everybody.

Well, it looks as if my conjecture was correct: A lot of these "outlaw" bikers are ex-military-service.
PTSD? Probably.
Aggression with no place to put it? Certainly.
"Nobody understands us"? Without question.

Note: If you call yourself an "outlaw," people will tend to treat you accordingly.
Note: If you act aggressively without real provocation, people will distrust you and not want you around.
Note: If you insist upon noisy pipes on your bike, people won't want you driving through their neighborhoods.

And then, you complain that nobody wants you around?
Gosh, I wonder why.

Civilization is based upon compromise.
Try meeting other people half-way.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Bisley said:


> We may. A major effort was made to preserve forensic evidence, and at least three state LE agencies and the FBI are processing the evidence and conducting interrogations/interviews. You can bet that controversy will arise when the lawyers start getting to see the evidence, but it might get sorted out properly, in time. The people in this article cannot have all the facts yet, and they are not unbiased.


They may call it the "Warren Investigation"


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

pic said:


> They may call it the "Warren Investigation"


The Warren investigation was doomed when the Secret Service refused to allow homicide detectives to gather and control the physical evidence.

In this case, there has been cooperation between Waco police, state troopers, and Texas Rangers to properly work the crime scene. The FBI is helping in an advisory capacity. That's about as good as it gets, if the investigators are competent. There is no apparent political agenda at play, here, so chances are that the facts will come out.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> From another news outlet's story:
> "...Trouble at Twin Peaks among rival bikers had been brewing for some time, District Attorney Abel Reyna told News 10 about two weeks ago. Reyna said local police were on heightened alert in anticipation of trouble on Thursday nights, when Twin Peaks hosts a Biker Night. Reyna said some weeks ago trouble erupted between two local motorcycle gangs and that spilled over into gangs from the Dallas-Fort Worth area showing up to support the local groups."
> 
> Since everyone already knew that trouble was brewing, one might think that the police would either politely ask the Twin Peaks restaurant to stop hosting "biker night," or would get an enforceable restraining order and proactively patrol the place. But no...not in Waco.
> ...


If I remember correctly the difference was that the local Sheriff had a hands off approach on the Davidians, it was the feds that instigated the massacre. Next thing you know an Army Vet bombs the Murrow Building in Oklahoma City. Crazy assed world we live in.

GW


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