# How many Failures have you had with your 1911?



## Wandering Man

I'm just curious, is my gun the only 1911 that runs flawlessly?

Since its break-in period (500 - 700 rounds), how many failures have you had with your 1911?

Please elaborate: 

What gun were you shooting? 

Had it been cleaned and lubed recently? 

How many rounds between cleanings before choking? 

What ammo did it choke on?

Please, don't tell us about your "friend's" gun or the "friend of a friend's" gun. I want to hear directly from 1911 shooters.

Thanks,

WM


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## Wandering Man

I'm shooting with a Kimber Compact CDP II. I've not had a failure of any kind in 2800 rounds.

WM


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## Baldy

I have two S&W's and one Kimber and the pistols have never failed to fire and I shoot 99% lead reloads. I had a crimp die set wrong one time and had some failure to feed but that was no fault of the pistols. I kept track of the rounds up to 2,500 and said this is crazy. I would say the one pistol is getting close to 3,500rds and one about 2,000rds. The newest is a Kimber and has about 400rds through it. :smt023


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## Wandering Man

Baldy said:


> I shoot 99% lead reloads. :smt023


In terms of kinds of ammo, I've shot:

150 rounds of CCI Blazer 230 FMJ

20 rounds of Hornaday P+P

150 rounds of Independenc 230 FMJ

250 rounds of PMC 230 FMJ

200 rounds of Remmington 185 MC

450 rounds of Winchester White Box 230 JHP

50 rounds of Remmington 230 HP

The other 1500+ rounds were handloads, mostly with either 185 grain Remmington Golden Saber JHP sitting on top of 5.1 gr of 700X, or Rainier 230 gr FMJ on 4.8 gr of Bullseye.

WM


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## bill5074

My Kimber Ultra CDP II in .45ACP had some FTF and FTE issues when it was new. These issues have pretty much resolved after magazine changes, although I still have an occasional problem. I use mostly WWB 230 grain ammo at the range (to save a few bucks) and Federal Preminum 200 JHP for carry ammo. The WWB ammo is very dirty ammo so after about 200 rounds the gun seems to not perform as well and the FTE's start to happen. It now has about 1,000 rounds through it. My guns are cleaned immediately after every trip to the range. If they are not used I make sure they are well cleaned and lubricated before storage.


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## zhurdan

I have two Kimbers

1. Kimber Custom Target II - probably close to 6000 rounds, third mainspring, one broken grip panel replaced, has FTF or FTE about 20 times over it's lifetime.

2. Kimber Raptor II - approaching 2000 rounds, has FTE about 4 times over it's lifetime.


I seriously can't believe that some have voted that theirs have never failed. Sounds like wishful thinking or excuse making... like "Oh that was the rounds I was using, not the gun" Not saying people here are saying that, but I've shot with people who've told me their gun never fails, and then I watch it choke and they explain it off as bad ammo, or something. All mechanical devises fail eventually.

Zhur

PS. I love my Kimbers.


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## Wandering Man

zhurdan said:


> I have two Kimbers
> 
> I seriously can't believe that some have voted that theirs have never failed. Sounds like wishful thinking or excuse making... like "Oh that was the rounds I was using, not the gun" Not saying people here are saying that, but I've shot with people who've told me their gun never fails, and then I watch it choke and they explain it off as bad ammo, or something. All mechanical devises fail eventually.
> 
> Zhur
> 
> PS. I love my Kimbers.


Well, I _am_ asking about performance after the 500 to 700 round break-in period. I had 12 Failure to Ejects in the first 600 rounds, including some I would like to blame the ammo on - it didn't seem to like Federal, Hydra Shok or Monarch.

I've had no failures since then, and I have experimented some with different types of rounds.

I've also replaced my springs per Kimber's recommendations, and cleaned it between shoots, if that makes any difference.

Oh, and I seldom use the Kimber mag that came with it.

Also, I seldom shoot more than 100 rounds at a time when I go shooting, so I'm also wondering if there is an upper limit of rounds shot in a single session before the failures begin.

WM


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## zhurdan

WM,
I was going to mention something about the Kimber magazines, they go into a bag that sits in my "sell this" pile.

As to weather or not there is an upper limit to firing, I'd say that it is possible, but I've shot mine in strings of 300-400 in a session shooting steel and haven't seen any more or less issues. I did see a video about a pretty rough torture test...
Todd Jarrett

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

1000 ROUNDS, and no stoppages. I'd say that if you shoot, let it sit, shoot some more, let it sit, you'd probably have more issues than if you just continued shooting as the gunk would have time to get all crusty.

I would never do that to one of my guns, but damn!

Zhur


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## Mike Barham

Wandering Man said:


> Also, I seldom shoot more than 100 rounds at a time when I go shooting, so I'm also wondering if there is an upper limit of rounds shot in a single session before the failures begin.


At the Gunsite class I attended recently, the one Para in class began puking on day one. Two of the three Kimbers starting puking on day two, and one made it "all the way" to the third day before it too started puking.

The harder you shoot guns, and the hotter they get, the more likely they are to puke. Most people seem to baby their guns, but when you get to quantities like 1400 rounds in five days, you just can't baby your gun. I do not know what cleaning regimen any of the 1911 shooters were using during the course.

I will say that the Colt Commander I carried for years worked pretty well, but not as reliably as my more modern guns.


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## Steve M1911A1

For more than four years, while I was competing in IPSC/SWPL, I put about 1,000 rounds through one or the other of my competition 1911s each and every weekend. One's a Colt, one's an Essex/Colt hybrid.
During that time, I used up three magazines because their feed-lips got bent or mangled in the process.
I suffered one (count them, one) broken barrel bushing (the spring-finger kind). I also lost (while deep-cleaning) one link pin.
I replaced the recoil spring in each gun, once, each.
And that's it, folks.

Keep a well-built 1911 clean and lightly lubricated, and it's almost as indestructible as a tank (that is, a direct hit from an RPG might take it out, as might a tank-size land mine or a largish artillery shell).
That said, I'm not entirely certain that modern-made 1911s qualify as "well built."


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## Wandering Man

zhurdan said:


> WM,
> I was going to mention something about the Kimber magazines, they go into a bag that sits in my "sell this" pile.
> 
> As to weather or not there is an upper limit to firing, I'd say that it is possible, but I've shot mine in strings of 300-400 in a session shooting steel and haven't seen any more or less issues. I did see a video about a pretty rough torture test...
> Todd Jarrett
> 
> Part 1
> Part 2
> Part 3
> 
> 1000 ROUNDS, and no stoppages. I'd say that if you shoot, let it sit, shoot some more, let it sit, you'd probably have more issues than if you just continued shooting as the gunk would have time to get all crusty.
> 
> I would never do that to one of my guns, but damn!
> 
> Zhur


Thanks. Nice videos.

I'll be sure to wear gloves when I take my 1911 out to the range. :smt033

WM


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## niadhf

I have a series 80 mark iv colt officers that i bought used in or about 1993.. I have put about 400 rounds through it and idk how many the previous owner did. It has an ambidextrious safety. I have had 4 ftf. all 4 of these were last winter. conditions.....cold (20deg f) snowy. gun had not been lubed, shot,oiled, or handles in almost 10 years (since i got married.hmmmm). I took it out and ran 100 rounds through it in a week and produced those 4 failures. I can't blame it on the gun. When i cleaned and lubed it after the first 50 rounds, no problems in the next
50 (about a week later). I carried this gun every day for 4 years.
Oh yeah, 2 of the magazines were brand new after market (star?) mags. 2 factory. the failures were 3 with a new mag, 1 with factory.

Ammo - ummmmm.....well.....my friends father had checked out a little too much from the armory, and well, you know.....they can't return that after it is checked out......so..........um.


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## Baldy

Hard to figure why anybody would buy a 1911 styled pistol when they are jamomatics.:smt022


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## Playboy Penguin

I currently have six 1911's (a seventh on the way) and I have never had a failure with any of them. Probably because I am a maintenance nazi. I obsessively clean and lube each gun after every use.

I did receive a lemon once that never did fire right. It was a complete loss right out of the box and seized up after just a few rounds. Colt replaced the entire gun without question.


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## Dsig1

800+ rounds through my Kimber TLE with absolutely no failures at all.

300+ rounds through my Kimber Ultra CDP and I've had half a dozen FTE's, probably due to my limp wristing as I was trying different grip techniques.


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## brisk21

In my springfield mil-spec Ive had 3, but only with aftermarket mags. (colt 8 rounders), everything with the stock mag has been perfect. I need to get maybe some wilson combat or chip mccormick mags for it.


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## brisk21

Mike Barham said:


> At the Gunsite class I attended recently, the one Para in class began puking on day one. Two of the three Kimbers starting puking on day two, and one made it "all the way" to the third day before it too started puking.
> 
> The harder you shoot guns, and the hotter they get, the more likely they are to puke. Most people seem to baby their guns, but when you get to quantities like 1400 rounds in five days, you just can't baby your gun. I do not know what cleaning regimen any of the 1911 shooters were using during the course.
> 
> I will say that the Colt Commander I carried for years worked pretty well, but not as reliably as my more modern guns.


just out of curousity, how did the Glocks perform as far as reliablilty?


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## Mike Barham

Six Glocks in the class. Total of two failures to feed, both with the same gun (a 17). I was unable to diagnose the problem from afar, unfortunately. The owner was clearly a competition shooter, so I do not know if his Glock was stock or modified.

The other five Glocks, two XDs, one HK, one M&P and four Berettas worked perfectly. One of the Berettas choked once, but it was with a Check-Mate magazine, so I can't hold that against the pistol. It ran fine once the student put the Check-Mate magazine where it belonged: in the trash barrel.


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## brisk21

yah, them aftermarket mags can get you jammed up. I dont see why you would get them instead of spending the xtra few bucks on the factory ones that you know will perform well. I mean, its not like the aftermarket ones are 5 bucks and the factory ones are 500. I'm speaking of more modern designs like glock, xd, sig, ect... 1911's are a whole different story, because the aftermarket is about the only place to get a decent mag.


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## Wandering Man

Well, as far as Glocks are concerned, 3Reds has managed to have 6 FTEs on her Glock 19, purchased new a little over a year ago.

But, we're only discussing 1911s here.

WM


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## Mike Barham

Wandering Man said:


> Well, as far as Glocks are concerned, 3Reds has managed to have 6 FTEs on her Glock 19, purchased new a little over a year ago.


Limpwristing?


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## Wandering Man

Mike Barham said:


> Limpwristing?


Maybe.

But then she never caused my Ruger P89 to choke, or my Beretta Storm (when I had it) - both 9mm.

For that matter, the Kimber never choked under her soft touch either. Not that she has shot it very often.

WM


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## Big_Jim

I've had my SA for years and there have been no malf that I can attribute to the gun only some of my less than perfect reloads, which there aren't too many.


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## forestranger

I've had 1911s for 40 years and only problem I've had is with some of my reloads and bad mags. US&S 1911A1 (retired), Colt 1991 Commander, RIA Tactical & new RIA Compact Tac. Got some "plastic" pistols too and they work fine too. Maybe it's "geezeritus" but I shoot 1911s better than any of the "plastics".:smt1099


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## BIGHARLEYBbigharleyb

I bought a 1911 Springfield a few months ago and have had only three failure to eject jams. I've shot over 350 rounds through it and only cleaned it twice, once when I got it and once before I replied to this post. Great pistol, previous owner abused it since 2001 with a whole heap of range sessions.:smt1099:smt1099:smt1099 American Muscle Car of the Auto Pistol:smt076 anything less than a 45.


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## Mike Barham

So based on the poll results thus far, 41% of owners have 1911s that aren't terribly reliable. That seems about right to me, even if my recent Gunsite experience showed 100% unreliability. :mrgreen:


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## Steve M1911A1

Mike Barham said:


> So based on the poll results thus far, 41% of owners have 1911s that aren't terribly reliable. That seems about right to me, even if my recent Gunsite experience showed 100% unreliability. :mrgreen:


Mike, just like all of the problems of the modern world, 1911 unreliability is a matter of personal responsibility.
I call it "failure to clean."
:smt033


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## DevilsJohnson

I have two Springfields, A Colt, two Para Ord, a Taurus, and a Rock Island. Out of all of them only the RIA had one failure to feed right on the 1st mag. after that I've not had a problem out of any of them. The 1911 and clones and Sig Sauer are the the only guns I can say that about . I've had a lot of other designs over the years. I went ape over the poly-guns in the early 90's but come back to the 1911 because it was the only ones I'd not had problems with. I've heard horror stories for years from people that have had 1911's that didn't do the job but I've just not had that problem. In fact I let my Springer 45 get really dirty and started using downloaded ammo to see if it would stop cycling correctly and after 800 rounds it was still going....Not as accurate but it cycled.:smt082

I'm one of those people that ain't gonna fix something that ain't broke. For me a 1911 fits the bill great. I trust my life to one:smt023


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## Playboy Penguin

Mike Barham said:


> So based on the poll results thus far, 41% of owners have 1911s that aren't terribly reliable. That seems about right to me, even if my recent Gunsite experience showed 100% unreliability. :mrgreen:


I actually read the poll as showing that 82% of all 1911 owners report that there guns have been very reliable and over 60% report them as being perfect. 

No gun is perfect. I have taken part in a few gun trials and I have never seen one where any gun made it through without a failure or two. A gun having a failure 1-5 times during the course of it's use (including FTE's, FTF's, mechanical failure, and so on) is one dang reliable gun.

Anyone that tells you any brand of gun never fails or another brand always fails has a vested interest in selling a load of goods either to you or to themselves. 

I have a friend that says his H&K's never fail, except the couple times I have witnessed them fail, but those were always his fault and not the guns according to him...so they do not count. :mrgreen:


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## Mike Barham

Playboy Penguin said:


> I actually read the poll as showing that 82% of all 1911 owners report that there guns have been very reliable and over 60% report them as being perfect.


I suppose it depends on the quantities of ammo being fired. I don't think, for example, that five malfunctions in 800 rounds is _remotely_ acceptable in a defense gun.



> No gun is perfect. I have taken part in a few gun trials and I have never seen one where any gun made it through without a failure or two. A gun having a failure 1-5 times during the course of it's use (including FTE's, FTF's, mechanical failure, and so on) is one dang reliable gun.


Again, it depends on "course of use." Most people don't shoot their guns hard, and I note that many of the folks in this thread who report perfect 1911s are also anal about maintenance. I sure as heck don't want a defense gun that is so borderline in its functioning that it can't go over 100 rounds without a cleaning.

Not sure what the round counts were in the gun trials you mention, but at the Gunsite course I just attended, we each shot 1200-1400 rounds. I note that none of the four 1911s made it, yet thirteen of the fifteen modern guns on the line worked with absolutely _perfect_ reliability. I have seen the very same thing at another course at Front Sight, where five of six 1911s malfunctioned, and also at many pistol matches.



> I have a friend that says his H&K's never fail, except the couple times I have witnessed them fail, but those were always his fault and not the guns according to him...so they do not count. :mrgreen:


Sort of like the posts in this thread that blame malfunctioning 1911s on bad ammo and bad magazines? :mrgreen:

People make excuses for guns they like.


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## Wandering Man

Wandering Man said:


> Well, as far as Glocks are concerned, 3Reds has managed to have 6 FTEs on her Glock 19, purchased new a little over a year ago.





Mike Barham said:


> Limpwristing?





Playboy Penguin said:


> I have a friend that says his H&K's never fail, except the couple times I have witnessed them fail, but those were always his fault and not the guns according to him...so they do not count. :mrgreen:





Mike Barham said:


> People make excuses for guns they like.


:smt017


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## jeb21

I can honestly say that in more than 20 + years of shooting, I have never had any failures to feed or eject or to fire with any of the 20+ revolvers that I have owned:smt083

Actually, I am the one who put the too many failures with a 1911 to count. I purchased a used stainless Springfield 1911 Mil-Spec. It failed to reliably feed the last round of the magazine and as a result would jam on the last round about once every 25 rounds or so. So I bough new magazines, no significant change. I bought a new recoil spring, no significant change. I was told that it was the extractor/ejector and that I should send it back for repairs. 

To hell with that I traded up to a brand new Springfield stainless mil-spec. Similar problems. Told I was limp wristing it - funny at the same range session I would fire my Glock or my Browning Hi-powers and my Colt 1911 made in 1918 and never have a malfunction of any kind. So I trade that Springfield away. Then I bought a brand new loaded Champion model (about the same size as the commander). After 200 rounds of flawless performance - it began to fail once ever 50 or so rounds. Failures load the first round of a new magazine when the weapon was reloaded from slide lock. 

I am done with Springfields for the time being. I still have my old beat up Colt, and one day I may purchase another 1911 but for now - I will stay with only one 1911.

By the way, at my local club IDPA shoots. 90+% of our gun malfunctions are from 1911.


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## Playboy Penguin

The extractor being bad would not cause it to fail on the last round in the mag each time. That is a magazine spring issue.


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## Steve M1911A1

"G.I.-loose" 1911s are completely reliable, even when not particularly clean.
It's the "accurized," tight ones that fail if they're not kept clean obsessively.

My competition 1911s are loose.
I never had a failure in competition.
I had very few failures during lots and lots of practice (see my much-earlier post). Many, many more failures were due to worn-out magazines (three) than to broken pistol parts (one).

"G.I.-loose" 1911s will never make minute-of-angle groups, but I can't hold my groups to even "minute-of-mountain," so it doesn't matter. I limit my shooting to 20 yards and under.
I know for a fact that my pistols will make consistent and predictable five-point (A-zone) center hits at 50 yards—but not in my hands, of course.
That's quite good enough. I don't need an "accurized" pistol.

People who like tight, accurized 1911s don't understand what a "practical" pistol is.


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## forestranger

Mike, the mags were WWII vintage that finally needed new springs and the bullets weren't seated deep enough to fit chamber of 1911 it was being used in.:smt033


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## oak1971

Mike Barham said:


> So based on the poll results thus far, 41% of owners have 1911s that aren't terribly reliable. That seems about right to me, even if my recent Gunsite experience showed 100% unreliability. :mrgreen:


So what is unreliable? 1 failure in how many rounds? 100, 1000, 10,000?

I shoot every week in the fall and winter and see all types/brands have trouble once in a while. Almost always related to poor cleaning habits.
Yes even Glocks will quit if some dummy never cleans them.

My Les Baer is at the 200 rnd mark and I had two issues related to my hand loads being a tad weak. I suppose I should blame my gun for not putting enough powder in?:smt033


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## DevilsJohnson

I wont use more than a bore snake in mine until I get over 550 round through it. And that's just because it start to but be as accurate. I still think most people having troubles rather a High end Kimber or something equal design. Using some custom shop pistol like it's a combat weapon it just not right. They are way too tight and require more maintenance being there are less places for powder and other nasty stuff to go. Look at a Mil Spec 1911 next to something that had had a lot of work done. You will see there are a lot tighter tolerances on the high end pistol. better fit isn't always better :watching:

Edited because I'm a moron and can't count apparently..heh


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## brifol6111

This all depends on the 1911 I was shooting, I currently have 4, have sold 2, and I am looking at 1. Out of the ones that I own and have sold 3 are rock solid, never even a burp, 1 is still in the break in period but I have had limited issues with it, and the 2 I sold were POS's and I would never buy one of either again.

The 4 I currently own are 1960's era Colt Gov't Model with Clark Mods and Colt Gold cup, a Kimber Stainless II, and a SA 1911a1 Mil-Spec. I like all of these weapons.

The 2 that we're sold we're a Auto Ordnance/Kahr Arms 1911, and a Charles Dailey 1911. These 2 we're poorly made and in my opinion trash.


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## Mike Barham

Wandering Man said:


> :smt017


Never made an excuse for Glocks choking. Limpwristing is a well-known cause of malfunctions in Glocks, probably more so than in most poly guns. The list of reasons 1911s choke seems rather longer, however. :mrgreen:

Not to say there are not reliable 1911s. Based on this thread, at least, there are some. But every single time I go to a class or match where guns get shot hard, the 1911s almost aways puke and the modern guns generally run.

It's great that you clean your 1911 every 100 rounds and it's reliable. But my Glock 17 is currently at about 1700 rounds without a malfunction or a cleaning. I like the margin for error with the latter gun.


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## Mike Barham

oak1971 said:


> So what is unreliable? 1 failure in how many rounds? 100, 1000, 10,000?


The classic test was 200 rounds without a failure of any kind. This standard is _very_ easily met and surpassed by modern guns, and so my own standard has changed. If my pistol malfunctioned once in 1000 rounds, I'd consider it close enough to 100% reliable to carry.



> I shoot every week in the fall and winter and see all types/brands have trouble once in a while. Almost always related to poor cleaning habits. Yes even Glocks will quit if some dummy never cleans them.


I suppose. I clean my Glocks twice a year, whether they need it or not. Neither has ever malfunctioned. I took my Glock 17 to Gunsite and fired 1400 rounds with no malfunctions. The weekend after that I went to the desert and shot another 300 or so rounds. Still no malfunctions. I guess it will stop at some point, but I'm still waiting.

The XDs, M&P, and HKs at the Gunsite course all performed perfectly also, in contrast to the puking 1911s.



> My Les Baer is at the 200 rnd mark and I had two issues related to my hand loads being a tad weak. I suppose I should blame my gun for not putting enough powder in?:smt033


It's always something. :mrgreen:


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## Baldy

There must be something wrong where I live at and the league I am in. So far I have seen 3-Glocks, 1-XD, and two 1911's fail at the line and we just shoot 60rds slow fire per night. What I am seeing is anything can and will fail when it comes to these Bottom Feeders. There's more than a few revolvers and so far I have not seen any failures. Most any mechanical devise can and will fail for any number of reasons and it's up to the operator to maintain it. :smt033

To me 1,700rds without cleaning a gun is just asking for trouble.


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## forestranger

If you don't want to clean your guns, maybe the "plastics" are best. It was drilled in me over 50 years ago, if you shoot it, you clean it. Still do that to this day and haven't had many issues with any of the guns I've owned over the years. Can't remember any of my 1911s choking on factory ammo after breakin.....but my memory ain't what it used to be.


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## zhurdan

Mike Barham said:


> Sort of like the posts in this thread that blame malfunctioning 1911s on bad ammo and bad magazines? :mrgreen:
> 
> People make excuses for guns they like.





> One of the Berettas choked once, but it was with a Check-Mate magazine, so I can't hold that against the pistol. It ran fine once the student put the Check-Mate magazine where it belonged: in the trash barrel.


Mike,
I thought I recalled you mentioning that one of the pistols, (Beretta) choked due to a crappy magazine from Check-Mate. Now, we can't have it both ways here so, is it possible that magazines can cause issues? You bet your wagon it is. Is there a bit of a contradiction in your statements? I think so, but I think it might be that you are biased against the 1911 platform. I could be wrong, as you've mentioned that you used to own a few as I recall, but to say that people make excuses for guns they like after having said that a Beretta choked due to a bad magazine seems odd.

I mentioned that, like what you said in quote one, people will overlook certain faults because they "want" it to be reliable, but I think this is because often times, after dropping $1100 on a pistol, they just can't believe that it's the pistols fault for failing. I know I used to do that, until I actually started diagnosing problems and fixing the problem, not my perception. I started with the obvious, tried different type of bullets, changed and marked the supposed 'bad mags' and shot some more. Some issues went away, some didn't. Put the pistol on a rest, a lot of issues went away, I didn't. Key point there is that I was the issue most of the times, and I had to learn to shoot that pistol differently than other pistols. It gives some creedence to the notion of shooting one pistol all the time and shooting it well.

My point is, there are circumstances that cause pistols to fail more than they should, and diagnosing those issues is much cheaper than plunking down another $700 for a different pistol most times. I just ordered some new magazines for testing. Was my 1911 choking like an allergetic bumble bee? No, but it does have it's issues, and magazines need to be replaced from time to time, as do springs and other parts.

I think it comes down to what you shoot best, and for a lot of people, the 1911 platform is just too damn 'pointable' to ignore. If a high maintenance schedule and pure, unadulterated admiration of the 1911 is your bag, great, it's mine, but if polyguns and low maintenance are your thing, more power to you. I have both, I shoot both, I love both. I don't rag on other pistol platforms aside from HiPoints but that's because they are uglier than my Glock, and I wasn't sure that was possible until I saw one in person.:mrgreen:
As always, debating is fun, take no offense.

Zhur


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## Mike Barham

No offense taken! 

I don't particularly like the M9, and I'm not excusing it. If you read above, I did not mention the M9 as one of the guns that performed flawlessly at Gunsite, only XDs, M&P, and HK. I have also repeatedly mentioned that one of the six Glocks choked twice.  The M9 Check-Mate mags are well-known as deathtraps in theater, so I do not know why the vet brought one, but he discarded it immediately. His gun ran perfectly for the rest of the course.

All that said, even a single M9 malfunction is small potatoes compared to the 1911 malfunctions I saw at the course. I literally lost count of the Para malfunctions on the first day, and watched a Kimber choke three times in a _single _string of fire.

Despite the impression I apparently give, I like the 1911. I really do. I carried one for _years_, and have always said that it's the easiest service pistol shoot fast and well. But pretending it's just as reliable as more modern pistols is to disregard reality. Then again, I don't baby my guns. I treat them as tools. And I don't think one or two hundred rounds between cleanings is much of a test.


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## Baldy

I have the G-19, M&P-9, and a SV-40 in the modern line of pistols. After a trip to the range they are every bit as dirty as my 1911's are. I have tried many different powders and there's no such thing as a clean burning powder. They all will dirty your gun up. I do more than just clean my guns as I inspect them also when putting them back together. I also clean my mags about 3 times a year. I also keep fresh mag and return springs on hand. Just my way.:smt1099


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## Mike Barham

I will admit that my preference for Glocks is partly colored by my sloth-like cleaning regimen. :mrgreen:

I did clean my 1911 a lot when I carried it, for fear of malfunctions. Now I can accept my true lazy ways.


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## Wandering Man

zhurdan said:


> choking like an allergetic bumble bee?
> Zhur


:anim_lol:

WM


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## zhurdan

I guess I just clean my guns because it's something that puts me and my wife in the same room while I do it. She's purdy and stuff. 

Actually, we watch TV together and I clean my guns. Kind of a ritual now. So, I don't much mind the cleaning part, especially being that the reason I continue to love guns is because of their mechanical simplicities/complexities. Seeing how it all works facinates me. I'll even clean 'em when they don't need cleaning.

Zhur


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## Wandering Man

zhurdan said:


> I guess I just clean my guns because it's something that puts me and my wife in the same room while I do it. She's purdy and stuff.
> 
> Actually, we watch TV together and I clean my guns. Kind of a ritual now. So, I don't much mind the cleaning part, especially being that the reason I continue to love guns is because of their mechanical simplicities/complexities. Seeing how it all works facinates me. I'll even clean 'em when they don't need cleaning.
> 
> Zhur


3Reds & I clean our guns together:


> The family that huffs solvent together gets dementia together


... or something like that.

I wonder if they'll let us bring our guns when the kids send us to the nursing home?

WM


----------



## jeb21

+1 on the problems with poly guns and limp wrist.

I have owned three Glocks a 19 a 26 and a 23. I have never had a malfunction with any one of these pistols. However, my daughter can limp wrist the 19 to malfunction about once per mag.


----------



## oak1971

I picked up my Les Baer new last night. Went straight to the range. Fired 200 rounds and left it alone. It won't get cleaned until at least 500 rounds. And judging by others I know who have the same gun, it will continue to work just fine. Just like my 20 year old Taurus that everyone says is junk. I have never had a failure with that one.


----------



## tekhead1219

zhurdan said:


> I guess I just clean my guns because it's something that puts me and my wife in the same room while I do it. She's purdy and stuff.
> 
> Actually, we watch TV together and I clean my guns.
> 
> Zhur


How do you get your wife to stay in the same room while you're using Hoppes #9? Mine wouldn't even come in the house, then summer got here and I'm not allowed to open that bottle in the house. Do you have a cleaning solvent that doesn't have the strong aroma (I likes it) that Hoppes has? If so, clue me in. Thanks. :mrgreen:


----------



## zhurdan

After she complained once in the winter that I had to go downstairs to the basement to clean my guns (it's cold in the basement), I said, "Ok, but fairs fair!" A couple of days later, she was doing her toenails with that nasty nail polish remover... to the basement she was told to go... problem solved.

Zhur


----------



## tekhead1219

zhurdan said:


> After she complained once in the winter that I had to go downstairs to the basement to clean my guns (it's cold in the basement), I said, "Ok, but fairs fair!" A couple of days later, she was doing her toenails with that nasty nail polish remover... to the basement she was told to go... problem solved.
> 
> Zhur


:smt082:smt082:anim_lol::anim_lol:


----------



## Spartan

zhurdan said:


> After she complained once in the winter that I had to go downstairs to the basement to clean my guns (it's cold in the basement), I said, "Ok, but fairs fair!" A couple of days later, she was doing her toenails with that nasty nail polish remover... to the basement she was told to go... problem solved.
> 
> Zhur


I told mine the same thing. She complained once and I just shot back about her nail polish remover. Not another peep out of her.


----------



## Baldy

oak1971 said:


> I picked up my Les Baer new last night. Went straight to the range. Fired 200 rounds and left it alone. It won't get cleaned until at least 500 rounds. And judging by others I know who have the same gun, it will continue to work just fine. Just like my 20 year old Taurus that everyone says is junk. I have never had a failure with that one.


I have no doubt about the LB, but why do you chose not to clean it for 500rds? As soon as I get a new gun I clean and oil it and then I shoot the fire out of it. :smt033


----------



## oak1971

On recommendations from other Les Baer owners. They say Les recommends that you leave the gunk in there for 500 rounds for the final lapping of frame and slide. I ran a bore snake through the barrel and wiped out the chamber.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

tekhead1219 said:


> How do you get your wife to stay in the same room while you're using Hoppes #9? Mine wouldn't even come in the house, then summer got here and I'm not allowed to open that bottle in the house. Do you have a cleaning solvent that doesn't have the strong aroma (I likes it) that Hoppes has? If so, clue me in. Thanks. :mrgreen:


Just a note that may interest people here:
Some women love the smell of Hoppe's #9!
It turns out to be genetically related. There's a human gene that controls whether or not a person, male or female, enjoys the smell of what are called "aromatic esters," such as gasoline and Hoppe's #9, and nail-enamel solvent, too.


----------



## oak1971

Another 100 rnds and 0 failures....Yawn.
I will shoot 200 more tomorrow.:watching:


----------



## Mike Barham

Of course there is something of a difference between a hand-fitted custom gun like a Baer and a production gun. The instructors at Gunsite playfully go down the line and ask people about their guns:

Instructor: "How much was your gun?"

Student with Kimber: "$900."

I: "It'll make it until tomorrow."

*****

I: "How much was your gun?"

S with Colt: "$1200."

I: "It'll make it until Tuesday."

*****

I: "How much was your gun?"

S with Wilson: "$2600."

I: "It'll make it until Thursday."

*****

I: "How much was your gun?"

S with Glock/XD/M&P: "$500."

I: "You'll be fine for the whole course."


----------



## oak1971

Hey, if Glocks are your thing good for you. The FBI likes 1911's. So do I.


----------



## Baldy

Well that sure is a beauty you have there OAK. If LB says run it I would run it to.:smt023 Hope you don't mine if I drool a little while looking at that fine pistol of yours.:drooling:


----------



## oak1971

Thank you. 200 more rounds today. No failures. 500 rounds total. And...the first cleaning. It is smoothing out nicely. I thought it was smooth when new, but it keeps getting better. I have had two failures both with reloads and with the same mag. It is one I have had trouble with in other 1911's and keep forgetting to toss. It is in the trash now. Will order more Wilson mags. Put a Hogue wrap around and stainless hex head grip screws on. Did lots of work on my shooting form. My friend came along to shoot and has the same model Baer as I. His is #1007, mine #22711. His has more than 50,000 rounds through it. Mine 500. I have some catching up to do.


----------



## oak1971

600 rounds and the Les Baer still running strong. Went to the range last night. My friend brought his with 50k plus on it and the darn thing is still super tight. Guys next to us were trying to do rapid fire drills with .40's
They couldn't even keep em on the paper at 7 yards. Then we did double taps with our Baers. Kept em all in the x and 10 rings. "Team polymer" came over to see what we were shooting and left with heads hanging low. I swear between the three of them they spent a couple hundred at least on ammo. To bad I don't reload .40, it was a brass buffet.


----------



## Baldy

:drooling:That sure is a fine looking pistol. Nothing better than steel and wood. Good luck with it again.:smt023


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Yeah..that is a good looking pistol. I hadn't had anyone tell me ot leave the gunk in em though but it makes a little sense. I have tipped a mag or two with jewelers rouge though to get a barrel to get the funk out fast.:smt033


----------



## LIKE_M_HOTT

Wandering Man said:


> I'm just curious, is my gun the only 1911 that runs flawlessly?
> 
> Since its break-in period (500 - 700 rounds), how many failures have you had with your 1911?
> 
> Please elaborate:
> 
> What gun were you shooting?
> 
> Had it been cleaned and lubed recently?
> 
> How many rounds between cleanings before choking?
> 
> What ammo did it choke on?
> 
> Please, don't tell us about your "friend's" gun or the "friend of a friend's" gun. I want to hear directly from 1911 shooters.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> WM


No Your not the only one i have a para cco blackwatch that i've carried for years an just like the sig p220 i use to carry if the ammo is hot it's gonna run !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jacksmatrixxx

have dw commander bobtail,has not failed once.my 11 yr old shoots it and you can imagine its a little limp wristed.even so has never faile to chamber or eject


----------



## SemoShooter

Failure #1: The extractor on my wife's Springfield Loaded lost tension after about 2000 rounds. Replaced with Wilson Combat Bullet proof extractor. No more problem.

Failure #2: The slide on my Kimber Ultra Aegis II would not lock open on the last round when it was new. Kimber sent new slide stop and the fixed it for about a year and now it has started again.


----------



## SemoShooter

tekhead1219 said:


> How do you get your wife to stay in the same room while you're using Hoppes #9? Mine wouldn't even come in the house, then summer got here and I'm not allowed to open that bottle in the house. Do you have a cleaning solvent that doesn't have the strong aroma (I likes it) that Hoppes has? If so, clue me in. Thanks. :mrgreen:


Heck my wife cleans our pistols sometimes and Hoppes #9 is what we use. I bought another brand that doen't smell as bad, but it doesn't work as well either.


----------



## zhurdan

Parts wear, replace them. If you are looking for a perfect pistol that never fails, buy a rock... throw it hard, and hope you are Nolan Ryan when you need it. 

Kimbers fail. Colts fail, Beretta's fail. Glocks fail. 

If you don't trust it to work, if you don't maintain it to keep top performance, if you don't understand that mechanical devises will eventually fail... lock yourself in a safe room, or find a different pistol to carry. But I can assure you of this... whenever your "failsafe" whizbang fails, you are still going to deposit some brown particles on your cotton undies if it's in a life and death situation. Just remember this. The life and death situations for the largest percentage of us are never going to happen. Therefore, when you expect 100% reliability, I can assure you that you, as a person, will fail long before your pistol will if it is of any sort of quality.

I wouldn't carry a Jennings, or a Hi-Point into danger, but I don't plan on going into danger anytime soon. Therefore, my Glock 32C (clean), my Kimber Raptor (clean), or my Kahr .40 (clean) will get me thru most days without a hitch. 

Buy a quality made gun, shoot it until you are confident that it will fire 98% of the time, and train so that you won't be the weakest link in the equation.

Zhur


----------



## oak1971

Baldy said:


> :drooling:That sure is a fine looking pistol. Nothing better than steel and wood. Good luck with it again.:smt023


Thank you sir! I tried the rubber finger grove wrap around grip, but I like the wood better. I can get my mitts around it easier.

800 rounds and counting. :mrgreen:


----------



## Mike Barham

Just got back from the Gunsite Alumni shoot last night. Lost count of choking 1911s, as expected. My shooting partner had multiple failures with his high-end Colt Gunsite pistol, despite it being spotlessly clean and well-lubed. He eventually switched to an S&W 1911SC Gunsite model - which also took a dump on the Cooper's Cup portion of the shoot. Saw the same with many other 1911s on the line. 

However, I also saw an XD40 malfunction (a rarity!) and the worst failure was with a SIG X-Five that blew its extractor and was DOA as of the second stage of a six-stage match. Man, was that guy pissed!

My Glock 17, which has gone through a 1400 round Gunsite course, a 300-round training session, and now a 100+ round match without a cleaning, worked 100% as usual. My shooting partner is ordering a Glock on Monday morning. :mrgreen:


----------



## Bisley

My Springfield Loaded Champion won't chamber the first round of 230 grain Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel, whether you rack the slide or release the slide stop. However, once one is chambered, it fires the rest without fail. This is with any of the four Springfield magazines. I can empty the magazine, load it with Winchester JHP's or FMJ's, and it works fine.

My solution? Feed it Winchester JHP's and give the gourmet stuff to the XD45...it will eat anything!


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Put 300 rounds through the old Springer 1911 over the weekend and another 150 through my PT1911. My only problem was I had planned on splitting the ammo even between the two guns but I really like shooting that old Springer..heh but had a great shoot:mrgreen:. Something about this time of year. I just love shooting in the fall:smt1099


----------



## oak1971

Somewhere north of 1500 rounds so far, and the Les Baer just keeps on working splenidly.:watching:


----------



## Old Padawan

Is the poll for number of failures this week?
:smt082


----------



## zhurdan

OMG!!! If I could compress the video enough to not take up 500MB, I'd go out and film an entire session from cleaning to shooting 500 rounds to cleaning, nonstop and I would put $50 on it that I wouldn't have a problem. The main reason for weapons failure with quality made guns is shooter related in my opinion. I also bet that I could take any gun out there and make it fail by not gripping and holding it properly.

Yes I know there are some "bad eggs" out there when it comes to guns, but with most quality guns, 99% of the time, I'd say it's all shooter related.

You guys and your 1911 hating!!!:mrgreen:

Zhur


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Man..I just watched that Todd Jarrett 1000 rounds through a para...Damn that's cool!


----------



## DevilsJohnson

heh..in case anyone had missed it





 <--Part 2




 <-- Part 3


----------



## LoneWolf

I have a para single stack commander and what can I say she's a beautify and a half... fun little thing to shoot. She was my main carry gun until I picked up a Sig P6. But before I cleaned her and put her in the safe towards the end she was having problems locking the slide back on the last round. Figured it was mag's and that seemed to fix her once I changed but then she started doing it again. I'm still happy with her though and will get the problem figured out sooner or later.


----------



## oak1971

Another 100 rounds today. Even cheap Blazer won't make it jam. :smt023

Les Baer just keeps on trucking.


----------



## Semi-jacketed

I've had about 6-10 failures with 1911's. I've also shot over 80,000 rounds or so through three with over 60,000 through one of them. The failures were magazines, worn out springs that needed to be replaced, broken slidestop, and ammo failures.

I've had about 4 failures with glocks. One a g-19 (yes) that refused to feed 9mm ammo of any sort less than a certain grain weight, and another g-30 that had a guide rod problem. I've shot over 2,000 round through them.

My point is that mechanical devices will eventually fail especially if you use them. Also, sometimes things are made just a bit close on spec tolerances and may speed up the failure process even if they are well thought out designs.

Three failures through a Witness match .45 due to a bad spring when I only had a few hundred rounds through it. 

All problems have been resolved through proper diagnosis and repair.

If someone has never had any failures with their firearm I know they haven't shot very much at all.


----------



## oak1971

2200 rounds and still no issues.:watching:


----------



## slowhare

I have a Sprinfield (loaded) full size 1911.

I had no failures until last weekend (probably about 2000 rounds previously), and I had 2.:smt076

I am currently blaming it on a new mag that I got a couple of weeks ago, but will clean everything and try again and see what happens.

I typically have fed the cheapest Wally-world ammo I could get...Blazer Brass, WWB or Remington. All fmj and 230 gr (I think). Although, early on I did try a few hollow points, and didn't have any problems, I wasn't going to spend that kind of cash consistently.


----------



## Slowfire

I own Les Baers, Kimbers, Wilsons, Colts, Springfields, Paras, Dan Wessons, Ed Brown and a few less known mfrs. Once they were broken in, I've had some problems but not enough to make me lose confidence in the 1911 platform. But then my Forum ID is "Slowfire" and my friends say that it is a descriptive name.


----------



## ProjectCamaro

I've had one FTF in my Kimber and that was probably my fault. I wasn't being to nice to it at the time...


----------



## Centerfired9mm

I have a Kimber Custom II Stainless.

I have had a couple since breakin but they were mostly my fault as I was learning to reload and also had a crimp setting wrong and let OAL get away from me once.

I am about 2000 rounds in, have shot mostly Blazer, S&B, Winchester White box, and lead reloads. Now I shoot almost exclusively 185 LSWC and it just eats them up. The pistol has made me a lover of the 1911 platform and the .45 caliber in general.

Rack and fire !


----------



## lovain1932

I have a springer loaded version the only jam I ever experienced was when I just plain Limp Wristed I polished the feed ramp and keep my wrist solid never a problem


----------



## oak1971

I have a Les Baer. Failure is not an option.


----------



## tekhead1219

Only failure I've had with my PT1911 was fail to feed. They were my reloads and the OAL was just a little long. My fault, not the guns.:mrgreen:


----------



## VAMarine

Les Bear: 0
Thunder Ranch Special

Colt:0
5" XSE 
Pre-series 80 Combat Commander

Para: 0
P16-40
P10-45
P14-45LDA
C7 LDA

Springfield: 0
1911-A1

Kimber:
A: CDP Pro II .40S&W Numerous Failures, not going to list them all
B: Kimber Stainless Ultra .40S&W, same deal as above
C: Kimber CDP Ultra: 0
D: Kimber CDP Compact: 0
* Kimber failures started during break in and continued into the 600-750 round prior to repair

Llama: 
Mini-Max-Numerous failures, feeding/extracting.


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Semi-jacketed said:


> If someone has never had any failures with their firearm I know they haven't shot very much at all.


Got several I've not had any. And I shoot at least twice a week. It's at least 50 rounds, usually 100-150 being I shoot more than one gun. I am one that checks things and replaces springs after so many rounds.


----------



## oak1971

oak1971 said:


> 2200 rounds and still no issues.:watching:


Make the that 3400 rounds as of 1/30/09










:watching:


----------



## Spartan

oak1971 said:


> Make the that 3400 rounds as of 1/30/09
> 
> :watching:


And how much did that Les cost? :smt033


----------



## mplecha

I'm at just over 1k in my loaded without a single failure.


----------



## oak1971

2.2G's It's at John Harrison's now for new sights and some fancy cosmetic touches. French borders cut in the slide, 2000 grit polish master blue, serrations on top of the slide, blend the magwell I installed and install a Ed Brown extended mag release. It will be a 3G+ pistol then.


----------



## ECHOONE

had my Springfield little over a yr now,12oords no FTF's,no hiccups


----------



## zhurdan

Took the Kimber Raptor Pro II thru a defensive pistol class two Saturdays ago. Right around 500 round of hard shooting, no cleaning, NO hickups. This pistol has about 3500 thru it.

Zhur


----------



## eastlandb1

2 with my Para P-13. Robert


----------



## mammynun

My Taurus 1911 doesn't like Speer Gold Dot ammo. I have 6 mags (2 taurus, 2 Mec Gar, and 2 Kimber), so I guess I've had 6 FTFeed.

I've fired around 750 rnds of various other brands of FMJ and JHP without any problems. Hope to get another 200-300 today... Bass Pro Shop had WWB for $20.99/50, so I bought eight!


----------



## YFZsandrider

Does Taurus just copy everyone's guns, or did you put those grips on that Eclipse look-alike?


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Those don't look like Taurus grips. It's a 1911, so unless it says Colt it's a clone.So I would guess that everyone has that to want to make them look like. I wouldn't think Taurus was trying to make one look like a Kimber. But I haven't seen a two tone from the factory either.

Pretty cool looking though. My PT1911's have more rounds that I would want to count and have yet to give me a problem. It's in the thousands but I really don't know how many rounds. If I had to guess around 1800 to 2200 rounds in the stainless one. The blued around 1000-1500.


----------



## YFZsandrider

This is what I'm talking about...


----------



## Steve M1911A1

So-called "double-diamond" checkered grips were always standard-issue equipment on M1911s, both civilian and G.I. Therefore, modern 1911 clones are very frequently found bearing one form or another of "double-diamond" grip panels.
Taurus isn't copying your Eclipse. Instead, both are copying Colt.


----------



## YFZsandrider

I was referring to the similarities in the black finish with exposed flats _along with_ the grips. I saw that Taurus 1911 and thought, "First beretta, now this?!"

I don't own one of these Kimbers, but have long admired the finish on them.


----------



## dondavis3

I currently own a Kimber and a Smith & Wesson .45.

They are both very good guns.

The Smith is 20 years old (I bought it new) and carried it as my duty gun.

The Kimber is brand new and a dream to shoot - it comes with a lot of "gunsmith" custom work already done to it.

Most of my "failures" happened with my Smith when it was brand new & not well "broken in".

I haven't had any failures on my new Kimber.

:smt1099


----------



## YFZsandrider

dondavis3 said:


> The Kimber is brand new and a dream to shoot - it comes with a lot of "gunsmith" custom work already done to it.:smt1099


such as??...


----------



## dondavis3

YFZsandrider said:


> such as??...


A lot of .45 brands do not have the following (you can get all of this installed from your gunsmiths):

Made entirely in the Kimber Custom Shop.
Night Sights, Meprolight Tritium 3-dot night sights.
Compact and Pro Carry pistols have 4-inch bushingless match grade bull barrels.
Barrels and chambers are match grade for accuracy.
Breech faces are polished.
Ejection ports are lowered and flared for reliable function.
Slides are machined from solid stainless steel and given a satin finish that will not reflect light.
Compact Stainless II has a shorter frame yet retains 7-round magazine capacity. 8 rounds is a Wilson Combat Magazine.
Kimber aluminum frames have been lab tested to over 20,000 rounds without evidence of meaningful wear.
All Compact and Pro Carry pistols use a proven single recoil spring design.
Available with steel, stainless steel or lightweight aluminum frames that reduce overall weight.
Crimson Trace® Lasergrips.
Tactical Rail.
Deep front strap checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
Deep rear strap checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
Deep trigger front grooving. 
Deep bottom trigger guard checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
Checkered flat mainspring housing.
Match grade Premium Aluminum Trigger
Sights and edges are rounded and blended for easy carry w/o snagging clothing.
Beveled magazine well.
Magazine release button is extended for fast reloading.
Match grade trigger breaks clean and consistently every time.
Extended ambidextrous thumb safety.
Kimber aluminum frames are machined from solid blocks of 7075-T7 aluminum to the same critical dimensions as the steel frames.

The S&W .45 I carried on duty had almost none of these - I added a lot to it .

As I said before - you can get all of this on almost any .45 with the help of a gunsmith & after market parts , but it's available straight from the factory when you buy the Kimber I bought.

:smt1099


----------



## YFZsandrider

CT grips, huh? What does that model run?


----------



## dondavis3

Not sure what your asking?

The Kimber comes in all kinds of models and configurations - cost depends on what you want on it - the cheapest I've ever seen was at a gun show for around $900 the most expensive around $1600 at a gun shop.

If your asking about the cost of the Crimson Trace grips alone, I've seen them online from $260 to $359 for the model that came on my Kimber model Crimson Trace laser grips, LG 401-P1.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/crimson_carry/

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/1911/LG401P1Burlwood/tabid/144/Default.aspx

I hope this helps.


----------



## Waldo Pepper

Only about 400 rounds fired so far, but it has not had a failure. I have only used the following: Winchester ST/JHP and Target Ball, and some (10 rnds) reloaded LSWC/HP so far. So needless to say I am happy with my new HD gun. Almost forgot to mention it's a Para 1911 model 14-45 Gun Rights.


----------



## kudu61

Had my Kimber SLE for several years now. Zero hiccups. Have shot WW, Fed, REM, Hornady, Speer, and SWC reloads. Am very happy with the pistol. See ya, Bill


----------



## dances with guns

i voted no probs.

my current springer champ op and para gi expert are flawless.

however, my very first handgun years ago, was a norinco 1911. it was a complete piece of :horsepoo:!

constantly jammed, ftf's and fte's. my dad traded it for a nice cannon slr camera a couple years ago


----------



## Big Boomer

dances with guns said:


> i voted no probs.
> 
> my current springer champ op and para gi expert are flawless.
> 
> however, my very first handgun years ago, was a norinco 1911. it was a complete piece of :horsepoo:!
> 
> constantly jammed, ftf's and fte's. my dad traded it for a nice cannon slr camera a couple years ago


Oh Boy you traded off a true machined frame in the Norinco for a cast iron Springfield Clunker!

The failure rate of the 1911 handgun is proportional to the departure away from the original design concepts by John Moses Browning.

It was never intended to be a "Target Weapon". It was designed to be a close range self defense weapon for our military personnel. It was designed to be shot from a horse and to be loaded and activated with one hand. Please see the original Military Operations Manual at this location http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm

It was designed to shoot round nose bullets of 230 grains that John Moses Browning also invented. It was designed to have very loose tolerances to operate in all types of conditions.
The more you stray away from the original design the higher the chance for failure get. Come on people, you can drive nails with a glass challis too until it breaks also!......:watching:


----------



## knoxrocks222

None


----------



## zhurdan

I've been watching this post for quite a while now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you aren't having any malfunctions in your gun, there's only a few reasons for it...

1. You're the luckiest person on the planet and got a great gun.
2. You're the best shooter ever and always have perfect form.
3. You're not counting all malfunctions by placing blame on something else (ammo, shooter, dust in your eye)
4. You're not shooting your gun very much.

Mechanical failures are a certainty in any mechanical device. Introduce the human element into the equation and something just doesn't add up. A malfunction is a malfunction is a malfunction, regardless of what may have caused it.


----------



## Wandering Man

zhurdan said:


> I've been watching this post for quite a while now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you aren't having any malfunctions in your gun, there's only a few reasons for it...
> 
> 1. You're the luckiest person on the planet and got a great gun.
> 2. You're the best shooter ever and always have perfect form.
> 3. You're not counting all malfunctions by placing blame on something else (ammo, shooter, dust in your eye)
> 4. You're not shooting your gun very much.
> 
> Mechanical failures are a certainty in any mechanical device. Introduce the human element into the equation and something just doesn't add up. A malfunction is a malfunction is a malfunction, regardless of what may have caused it.


Consider that the original question regards failures after the break-in period.

I had 11 failures within the first 685 rounds fired in my Kimber. I've now put 3643 rounds through the gun. No failures, jams, stovepipes, etc since round number 685.

Good maintenance? (I've changed the springs according to the manual, clean and lube the gun on a regular basis)

Perfect form? (my doctor tells me my coumadin level is perfect, but she hasn't said anything about my form)

Luck? (maybe)

Not counting all the shots? (yes, actually I am counting all the shots. Among those 11 were some I blamed for my wife's limp-wristing [she doesn't shoot this gun anymore], or bad ammo - it didn't like Monarch or WWB 230 grain ammo)

Not considered to have been shot much? (I don't know what this standard is)

Or am I lying? (No - but then if I lied about the above, then I'm probably lying about this. My opinion is that I'm not lying)

So has it had failures? Yes. Based on my criteria above, she had 2 failures after the 500 round break-in period.

But she has not had any failures in the last 2,721 rounds.

I can believe that some folk have had no failures after the break in period.

WM


----------



## DevilsJohnson

I can't totally agree with you here Zur. With a 1911 if you have a decent one..Don't have to be any top of the line stuff..Just decent and you take the proper care it will function as it should always. With a 1911 you have to be a lot more careful with things like springs. Especially the recoil spring. The recoil spring will wear faster than they do in many other type weapons. They start to collapse over time and will get weaker because of it and that will cause problems. This is why you will see say..A Springfield Mil-Spec that has a 14-16 # spring fail before you will a higher dollar 1911 that has a 18-20 # spring. You only need a 16# to make the weapon work right with most all store bought ammo but if it gets sloppy and you get failures. The weapon with the 20# spring can fire many more rounds before that spring gets below the 15-16# level and really needs replaced.l so people think the weapon is built so much better. This also answers why some higher end 1911's require a break in period. Because they have the heavier springs and can be too tight for some store bought ammo. While most middle and lower shelf 1911's do not say the require the same break in time.

One of the biggest shortcomings for a 1911 according to non 191 people will be that they require too much maintenance to perform at their top level. Where newer style combat weapons can go much longer without it. Many non 1911 people will concede that the 1911 can and many times will be more accurate. And anyone that knows anything about weapons knows the more accurate the tighter the weapon needs to be. And that tighter tolerance leads for less places for dirt to go before it becomes a problem. Add that to the issues with some springs and you have a recipe for failure. But it can be avoided most the time of the 1911 user keeps a sharp eye out for things before they become an issue. I like most 1911 shooters always has an extra spring or two laying around. I keep one just to compare against one in the weapon. It starts to get to .75" shorter it needs replaced or I will have a problem. 

Using this info I have been able to say honestly that I have a a 1911 that started life as a Mil-Spec that has had thousands of rounds fired and without a problem. I have a PT1911 that can say the same. As with my Para LTC. I did have an issue once with an RIA but I did not check things as close as I should have when I took it down to clean it when new. It stove piped once. I changed the spring to a 16# and it worked well until I sold it. I'm not I don't see the guy that has it much so I can't speak of it's lack of failure now. I do shoot at least one of my 1911's every time I shoot. I will shoot at least 100 rounds through it. And they all perform as I expect them to. But like I said I have to pay closer attention to them than I will my Sig Sauers, Browning Pro-40, or even my Buckmark. I learned my attention to detail in a 1911 from a man that carried one through two wars. And he always said because of that attention he was able to come home from both.

For me grip is not as much an issue with a 1911 unless you are using some pretty tight springs and ammo that is not loaded real hot(down loaded target stuff). But I load my ammo to simulate my carry ammo. I never understood the lighter load to target than carry. But I guess that's just me.:mrgreen:


----------



## zhurdan

Ok... I should have clarified. I'm approaching about 30k thru my 1911.

Please note, I never said anyone was a liar, I just said something isn't adding up.

I meticulously maintain my gun, new springs, with spares in the bag. Good lube and good cleaning regimen. I've had 40 stoppages over those ~30k rounds.

I guess I just get tired of hearing terms like "flawless" and "perfect" and "unbelievable" from people that shoot 300 rounds thru their gun and call it hard use and seeing 77% of the vote going to zero stoppages. It just doesn't add up on one level or another. 

Sorry, I'm just pissy... still.


----------



## Wandering Man

zhurdan said:


> Sorry, I'm just pissy... still.


Truth be known, that's what started this thread to begin with: Kept hearing folk talk about the unreliability of the 1911.

But it was always phrased as "a friend/acquaintance's" gun, or something someone saw somewhere.

I'm happy with mine, and couldn't believe that if 1911 failed all the time that they would be such a big part of gun sales.

So I launched this unscientific poll to see what real owner's of 1911's were experiencing.

WM


----------



## DevilsJohnson

zhurdan said:


> Ok... I should have clarified. I'm approaching about 30k thru my 1911.
> 
> Please note, I never said anyone was a liar, I just said something isn't adding up.
> 
> I meticulously maintain my gun, new springs, with spares in the bag. Good lube and good cleaning regimen. I've had 40 stoppages over those ~30k rounds.
> 
> I guess I just get tired of hearing terms like "flawless" and "perfect" and "unbelievable" from people that shoot 300 rounds thru their gun and call it hard use and seeing 77% of the vote going to zero stoppages. It just doesn't add up on one level or another.
> 
> Sorry, I'm just pissy... still.


Heh..Man I wasn't trying to come off mad or accusing anything. I just thought I'd try to clarify my earlier posts in how my pistols act. I can't speak to anyone others posts because I never see any of y'all at my house which is where I do most of my shooting.

I do agree... A handgun is not been used in my opinion until you get a couple thousand rounds through it anyway. To me if 200-300 rounds it's still new. under 500 rounds you wont even know most of the weapons traits because it's just too new.


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## tateb24

I have put 2000 round through my Taurus 1911 and never had an issue. I have heard horror stories, but not a hicup with mine.


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## oak1971

dondavis3 said:


> A lot of .45 brands do not have the following (you can get all of this installed from your gunsmiths):
> 
> Made entirely in the Kimber Custom Shop.
> Night Sights, Meprolight Tritium 3-dot night sights.
> Compact and Pro Carry pistols have 4-inch bushingless match grade bull barrels.
> Barrels and chambers are match grade for accuracy.
> Breech faces are polished.
> Ejection ports are lowered and flared for reliable function.
> Slides are machined from solid stainless steel and given a satin finish that will not reflect light.
> Compact Stainless II has a shorter frame yet retains 7-round magazine capacity. 8 rounds is a Wilson Combat Magazine.
> Kimber aluminum frames have been lab tested to over 20,000 rounds without evidence of meaningful wear.
> All Compact and Pro Carry pistols use a proven single recoil spring design.
> Available with steel, stainless steel or lightweight aluminum frames that reduce overall weight.
> Crimson Trace® Lasergrips.
> Tactical Rail.
> Deep front strap checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
> Deep rear strap checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
> Deep trigger front grooving.
> Deep bottom trigger guard checkering 30 lines-per-inch.
> Checkered flat mainspring housing.
> Match grade Premium Aluminum Trigger
> Sights and edges are rounded and blended for easy carry w/o snagging clothing.
> Beveled magazine well.
> Magazine release button is extended for fast reloading.
> Match grade trigger breaks clean and consistently every time.
> Extended ambidextrous thumb safety.
> Kimber aluminum frames are machined from solid blocks of 7075-T7 aluminum to the same critical dimensions as the steel frames.
> 
> The S&W .45 I carried on duty had almost none of these - I added a lot to it .
> 
> As I said before - you can get all of this on almost any .45 with the help of a gunsmith & after market parts , but it's available straight from the factory when you buy the Kimber I bought.
> 
> :smt1099


90% of that is done on cnc machining centers. Calling it "custom" is a bit of a stretch. When they make thousands just like it.


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## oak1971

Still waiting for the catastrophic life altering failure which will forever make me rue the day I use a 1911. :watching:


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## dondavis3

oak1971

If you don't like the word "custom" fine then use another word - no body cares - you missed the point or didn't read it well..

But the things that are listed are not done to most standard 1911 (that's what I said).

And as I said most can be added later by a gunsmith (again what I said) 

But they cost extra to do (as I said).

Have a nice day


:smt1099


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## Freedom1911

While I have had no problems with my 1911, I will admit I don't shoot it much, less than a 1000 rounds through it. 45 ammo is friggen hi here so I shoot 9mm.
Having said that, my next pistol purchase will be the Para 18-9 which is a 1911 that shoots 9mm. So next year I will be able to give the same answer but have lots of range time on it:mrgreen:


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## the.batman

I've had a couple over the years that ran perfectly from the factory- the first two to come to mind are a Springfield Armory TRP Operator and a TRP. I've been in the 1911 game for quite a few years and the platform can be very reliable, but I've found that generally, non custom 1911s require a few tweaks before they're truly reliable (1000 rounds or more with no malfunctions).

http://webpages.charter.net/the.batman/Dependability.htm
http://www.10-8performance.com/id32.html


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## DoubleAction

One half the Colts are used and the others are Wilsons; I have no problem that I couldn't fix my own.


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## sgms

Have 5 1911's 2 springfields, 2 colts, and one custom target long slide currently as shooters. My first Colt bought new in 1976 had one break down after near 5000 rnds. when the sear broke, easy repair and only problem I've had to date.


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## R.Ph. 380

Like you said, since break-in. That included, new recoil spring, new magazine spring and follower. Hate polymer followers and love metal like JMB designed. Now it( My Detonics Combat Master) runs like a fine tuned piece of machineryh. Just like I knew it could.

Bill


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## tabdog

My RIA A1 has never missed a lick,

Tabdog


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## jessemachone

I had 1 stove pipe on my trp (operator). It was the last round in the clip and I am thinking that I may have limp wristed it a little because I knew it was the last round. The round went where I pointed but it stove piped none the less. It was also 2 year old defense ammo I was burning up. (rem gold sabre)

The TRP (operator) probably hasn't had or is close to having 1000 rounds through it. I would imagine that it is plenty broken in.


----------



## OldCurlyWolf

Wandering Man said:


> I'm just curious, is my gun the only 1911 that runs flawlessly?
> 
> Since its break-in period (500 - 700 rounds), how many failures have you had with your 1911?
> 
> Please elaborate:
> 
> What gun were you shooting? Delta Elite
> 
> Had it been cleaned and lubed recently? Yes
> 
> How many rounds between cleanings before choking? 65+/-
> 
> What ammo did it choke on? PMC
> 
> Please, don't tell us about your "friend's" gun or the "friend of a friend's" gun. I want to hear directly from 1911 shooters.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> WM


I determined that at that time (I had purchased it used from a dealer) that it may not have been fully broken in. It was requiring a cleaning every 50+ rounds.


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## Overkill0084

Had my first one last night after the bowling pin shoot. Failure to feed. 230 LRN, 8.1 gr AA#5 (Missouri bullets). More testing to follow. I had shot approx 60 rds up to that point, with no issues, aside from my poor performance. 
Pistol in question is a SA Trophy Match w/ approx 800 to 900 total rds through it. Only other possible issue was I was using a new magazine (Wilson) maybe 80 total rds through it.


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## zhurdan

Overkill0084 said:


> Had my first one last night after the bowling pin shoot. Failure to feed. 230 LRN, 8.1 gr AA#5 (Missouri bullets). More testing to follow. I had shot approx 60 rds up to that point, with no issues, aside from my poor performance.
> Pistol in question is a SA Trophy Match w/ approx 800 to 900 total rds through it. Only other possible issue was I was using a new magazine (Wilson) maybe 80 total rds through it.


If you are going to use LRN's, it's worth it to buy the Wolff recoil spring to aide in feeding them. I did and my 4" chews thru the LRN's now with no issue. Also, after that many rounds, you're probably due for a recoil spring replacement anyhow.


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## Overkill0084

zhurdan said:


> If you are going to use LRN's, it's worth it to buy the Wolff recoil spring to aide in feeding them. I did and my 4" chews thru the LRN's now with no issue. Also, after that many rounds, you're probably due for a recoil spring replacement anyhow.


I've shot mostly Cast bullets to this point. I've not have any other problems. I haven't checked it out yet. It could just be some crud/bullet lube build-up on the feed ramp. I will be cleaning/inspecting it this evening. I will check the ammo as well, maybe I left something out of spec. Unlikely, but possible.
While a different weight spring may be appropriate, I seriously doubt that the current one is worn out after less than 1000 rds. Especially considering that my loads are comfortably under max. The only factory stuff I've used is WWB & Fed Champion, not terribly hot stuff. I would think 2000 to 2500 rds would not be an unreasonable expectation for a decent recoil spring.


----------



## zhurdan

Overkill0084 said:


> I've shot mostly Cast bullets to this point. I've not have any other problems. I haven't checked it out yet. It could just be some crud/bullet lube build-up on the feed ramp. I will be cleaning/inspecting it this evening. I will check the ammo as well, maybe I left something out of spec. Unlikely, but possible.
> While a different weight spring may be appropriate, I seriously doubt that the current one is worn out after less than 1000 rds. Especially considering that my loads are comfortably under max. The only factory stuff I've used is WWB & Fed Champion, not terribly hot stuff. I would think 2000 to 2500 rds would not be an unreasonable expectation for a decent recoil spring.


Yeah, perhaps. On a 5 inch gun it's not as bad, but on shorter 1911's, springs are like diapers. Use 'em up then throw 'em out and replace with a fresh one.


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## Overkill0084

I cleaned it last night when I got off work. Careful inspection revealed nothing amiss w/ the pistol. There was an odd wear spot on the Mag follower and it's only had about 80 rds through it. The mag is a Wilson w/ a plastic follower. The round that jammed had a ding on the bullet that may or may not have contributed to the issue. I can't tell if it was the cause or the result. 
I will test it it out when I have time to see if I can repeat the malfunction. The odd wear on the mag follower makes me lean toward a mag issue.

Update: Upon further review, I believe that the pain is self inflicted. My lack of attention to detail in the reloading process. I adjusted the Seat/Crimp die for a more aggressive crimp, and the problem got better. Lee Factory Crimp die inbound. It was also suggested by a knowledgable friend that I consider changing to a slightly heavier recoil spring (18.5) i.e. slam the door shut harder. Worth a test anyway.


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## medic15al

Only three relating to magazine problems. Last round was jumping the feed lips and the pistol was locking back as empty. A Wilson 7 rounder and 2 Old Colt (1970s) magazines cured it.

This is with my Lightweight Government Model from Colt.


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## carterrob

I have a Colt Combat Commander that my Father-in-law gave me for my birthday over 25 years ago. I've personally fired 2-300 rounds through it with 5 or so failures all due to magazine problems. All of the problems were with U.S. Government issue magazines.


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## ronmail65

About 500 rounds through my Rock Island 9mm 1911 Tactical. Zero failures.


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## crazy charlie

Remington 1911R1 cleaned and lubed when purchased and cleaned and lubed after each range session. Thought it was having an accuracy problem. Sent back to factory, installed a new barrel assy and smoothed the trigger to 3+ lbs. Helped accuracy a bunch. I don't believe in 'break in'. Has not skipped a beat with UMC 230 gr ball.


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## sonnyboy

Springfield Mil-Spec, 2,000 rounds, all fmj, mostly WWB, 0 failures. New Kimber Pro Carry II, prior to the last trip to the factory, 500 rounds with 30 lock opens before mag empty, FTF maybe 15. I hope she will shoot 100% now.


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## cuba

I've had my PT1911 since 2008 and with the exception to the infamous thumb safety braking, Taurus sent me a replacement within a week I have not had any failure of any kind, to date I have over 11K+ round with regular spring (wolf) changes and polishing fire control parts every 2,500 round with magnification check, all my MIM parts show little wear, I think the internals will go another 10K. when ever I do replace any part I will use Taurus warranty I believe the parts will be true drop in and have proved to me to be of very high quality.


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## chp1911

I have 7 1911's 6 Kimbers and 1 POS Auto-ordanance. The first Kimber I bought was a Custom stainless target in1998.It propably has in excess of 15,000 rounds through it.Someone told me what a POS it was and how it would be a jamomatic. So,I proceded to shoot the gun for 5,000 Rds with out a major tear down. It got dirty as hell and would start to slow down after shooting lots of rounds in extended sessions and at that point I would have a FTFeed. All I did when I had a FTFeed was hose the gun down w/Brake cleaner or gun blaster and drop some lube on the rails and pins and go back to firing. The gun shoots like a dream and i have not had a parts failure yet! (thats why I have 5 more in the safe) I bought all of my Kimbers Between 1998 and 2001.I have had more FTF w/my Glocks than my 1911's.


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## cuba

Sorry double post!!!


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## Packard

For years I didn't think about reliability of semi-autos. My Star-PD suffered from "smoke stacks" but that was from limp wristing (it was my first auto). I've had a Colt Commander, Colt Combat Commander, and a Colt Stainless Steel Gold Cup. I never had any failures of any kind with any of them. Those guns carried me over a period of 18 years with the Gold Cup having the longest time in my corral.

I always cleaned my guns after each range session. I would shoot about 50 rounds a week--I would miss some weeks so I would estimate about 2,000 rounds per year. I replace the recoil spring on the Gold Cup a couple of times. We had a gun smith at the range and he would suggest this. He kept a supply of springs and I guess he was just trying to drum up business but for the few dollars involved I would replace the springs every couple of years. 

I kept my Berretta 950 (.25 caliber) in my rear pocket; I hadn't fired it in a long while and it refused to fire. When I removed the magazine I found that the rounds were all corroded from the perspiration. Fresh ammo solved the issue (and taught me a lesson--shoot your weapons on a regular basis if you want reliable functioning).


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## dondavis3

Packard - good lesson for ALL of us.


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## Cat

Yes Sir that is the big thing to do, Always cleaned my guns after each range session. If I shoot one or 100 that day,They get a bath.A Clean pistol is ready to fire. And if your in love with your pistol, She will love you for this. Flitz Polish is the best,
Flitz Gun & Knife Care Kit..:smt1099
Flitz - Gun/Knife Care Kit


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## Cat

Cuba, That is one of the best looking 1911 out their. Both of my colt's look just like that.:smt1099


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## usmcj

My 1911's are Colts, Sigs, Dan Wessons, and pre-seriesII Kimbers. In many years of owning 1911's, I've had no issues with any of the pistols, that were the fault of the pistols. I've had mag and ammo issues, but my 1911's have been trouble free.


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## Raymond

Well past break in period on both of my Kimbers (Covert and Ultra Carry II). No feed issues.


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## stevehenry1

The worst ever was a AMT Hardballer. Not only jam-a-matic but a break-aholic I have a Auto Ordnance that someone overhauled. It too was a jammer, until I removed the compensator-type barrel bushing. Now it's excellent. I have a Springer Companion that jammed a lot. I'm hoping I've found the problem. there was an off-color spot in the chamber. I finally had to polish it with a Dremel, felt pad, and rouge. I don't know what was there, but it so far it's running a lot better now. Whatever it was, Hoppe's and brush wouldn't touch it.


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## Packard

I've had four 1911 style .45s.

I had a Star PD, a "small" alloy 1911 that I bought new in about 1979. But I was not ready for it and I would limp wrist and I got stovepipes all the time so I traded it in on a Colt Combat Commander (alloy commander). It was perfectly reliable but kicked too much, so I traded it in on an all steel Commander. It too was perfectly reliable and I kept it for a while. Then Colt came out with a Stainless Steel Gold Cup which would take full power loads (before that they were set up for semi-wadcutters). I bought that and kept it for about 15 years without ever a single hiccup.

From my experience all the Colt manufactured 1911s have proven completely reliable and 100% durable with no parts breakage of any type.

If I were to buy a 1911, I would buy a Colt.


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## rex

Between 2 early SAs and a few Colts in over 20 years,none really.I have had stoppages on occasion with changing mags or a reload OAL,but nothing as far as malfunctions.One even reliably ate Speer's 200gr flying ashtray.It helps I know how to tune them though so I check things before I even shoot it.It seems alot of makers now don't know how to tune an extractor before shipping it out.


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## BloodOmen911

I have a Taurus PT1911. Never had a jam, just occasionally the hammer only gets half cocked. I think my trigger sear might need a little work? I'm not sure.


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## Pistol Pete

I've have a few failures with handloads that we attributed to the loads. I've owned 5 1911's and the only one that wouldn't work out of the box was a Kimber. I had to dimple the slide stope to keep it from locking back on the next to last round. I've read since that this is a common failure with Kimber.


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## Jammersix

My suggestion is that the raw number of failures is meaningless. It's the common mistake of reading only one side of the ledger-- what is needed is a ratio.

For instance, a weapon that has had 21 failures in fifty rounds is in trouble.

The same weapon, with the same 21 failures in 150,000 rounds is in pretty good shape.

This is also the reason that when people say "I've never had a jam" I answer "shoot more."


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## rex

I agree with that in...basis for lack of a better word now.I think knowledge and experience also comes into play.

These forums have quite a few 'newbies',what-have-you that skew it also.Alot of shooters can't differentiate between a malfunction and a stoppage.

I constantly hear of malfs and then they say they're shooting Hornady.They make top notch components but the ammo is lacking in quality,so technically if that's the only brand that doesn't work it's a stoppage.Reloads are the same gig that depends on bullet shape and AOL,vary either and problem cured.

On the opposite side I'll bust on Kimber again.Their first generation were good guns and still sought after.From then on they went downhill with miscut feedramps,ill fit barrels,broken slidestops and other parts,extractors just thrown in and never checked for tensionetc.Top gunsmiths won't touch them for a serious build.It all comes down to pisspoor quality control of parts and build.These are pure malfunctions.

The last statement is what I say about bikers,if you haven't gone down you are lying or haven't ridden long enough.It isn't a matter of if,it's when.If you're a hardcore it's innevitable,if you just dabble with it you may be lucky and never experience it.Guns are a little easier as you can measure wear and replace high wear items that will fail,but you can't tell when an animal or bluehair is going to kommakozie your butt.


----------



## 870ShellShucker

> G.I.-loose" 1911s are completely reliable, even when not particularly clean.
> It's the "accurized," tight ones that fail if they're not kept clean obsessively.


I had read this, and hopefully it helped me make a good choice recently. I went to purchase a Remington 1911R1, and was offered two to choose from.

Example A had nicer looking grips (nicer looking wood grain), but not as nice of a parkerized finish.
Example B was just the opposite.
I inserted the magazines, worked the slides, tested the trigger pulls, the magazine releases, etc. for a good 10-15 minutes.
Example A had an overall looser feel to it, and Example B was very tight.
I chose Example A, and I have no regrets. I didn't want a long break-in period. I wanted some right now dependability.


----------



## wayno

Kimber II none!!!!


----------



## Highhawk1948

Colt Commander, 21 Century Model, no problem shooting 7 boxes of all major brands. Love the gun.


----------



## mrcrzy

No fte or ftf or stove pipes I think I covered it lol. however, this is no normal 1911  it is a .38 Super the magnum of the era! well it is used to me but, after firing close to 100 rounds down range it left a very nice feeling in my hand!


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## rex

Actually it is a normal 1911.The only difference is the barrel,ejector,and the slide and internal parts are made for the narrower casehead.Same gun,some specs were changed to deal with a smaller case.The smaller firing pin has carried over to some 45s years ago.


----------



## Jammersix

I've been watching this thread, and trying to form an answer.

But I have several 1911s, and have sold several more.

Some (small or tight) I sold because I gave up hope of ever making them work correctly. 1911s smaller than design have an operations envelope that is smaller at both ends than a standard, government model, and tight 1911s malfunction due to dirt before milspec. (All weapons generate residue that fouls weapons. The only question is when. Longer is better.)

Others, I smiffed' until they ran correctly and reliably. A couple, the manufacturer fixed. Two have gone to smiths, including one nationally known smith. I don't really see any difference in the end product, outside of opinion. One or two, I haven't had to touch, they ran straight out of the box.

The weapons that ran straight out of the box, and the weapons that ran the longest were Springfields. The weapons I had the most trouble with were 3-1/2" Officers models, followed by a Wilson government model. Someone else owns them, now.

There was a Springfield Officer's model in which part of the recoil assembly left, and departed downrange, jamming the weapon so that it took tools to get it apart.

When I'm in a match against a small or tight 1911, I smile. I know which students will need weapons help when I see those weapons.

If I'm ever in a gunfight, I hope my opponent has a small, tight 1911.

There will now be a wailing and gnashing of teeth by Wilson owners and Officer owners. Do carry on.

Dance with the girl you brung.

~Jammer


----------



## mustang652

I marked the zero, but reckon I better qualify that score. Due to the age of the gun I only fire it on rare occasion. My Colt 1911, mfg in 1945, is nearly a year older than I am and on those rare occasions I have taken it to the range I've never had a problem.


----------



## ponzer04

My colt has had a few last month when I put a heavy recoil spring and loaded bullets to low velocity. that is my bad.

My sig sauer scorpion will jam every 5th or so round if I load bullets to 1.232 oal, but if I load them to 1.23 oal they are flawless.


----------



## gandog56

About the only failure I remember in my Springfield Armory 1911A1 GI was totally my fault. I was shooting my reloads and probably put in a double charge in one. Blew one of the grips off, blew out the mag bottom, and put a big old bulge in the barrel. Which really kind of turned into a lucky thing. I had a gunsmith put in a new Wilson Combat match grade barrel and bushing, and my group sizes just about halved themselves.

Serendipity strikes.


----------



## rex

If you bulged the barrel it was an obstruction,like booting one off after a squib.If it was a double charge things come apart at the chamber,sideways and down.Progressive press?

Edit to add: What powder was it?I suppose a slow powder could bulge the barrel,but I'd expect to see slide damage under those circumstances.


----------



## Jammersix

He's talking about a 1911. An obstruction or a bulged barrel wouldn't necessarily damage the slide.


----------



## m1ghtysauc3

My Springfield MC Operator has several hundred rounds through it with zero failures of any kind.


----------



## 870ShellShucker

The 1911 in .45 Auto is a true Classic, if there ever was one.

So is the Remington 870, btw.


----------



## rex

Jammersix said:


> He's talking about a 1911. An obstruction or a bulged barrel wouldn't necessarily damage the slide.


I missed that until this popped back up,that doesn't make sense.

He's talking about a 1911,and the slide survived,as I stated it's most likely he booted one behind an obstruction.A double of a certain load may be that mild but normally the slide takes a hit.


----------



## oak1971

Jammersix said:


> I've been watching this thread, and trying to form an answer.
> 
> But I have several 1911s, and have sold several more.
> 
> Some (small or tight) I sold because I gave up hope of ever making them work correctly. 1911s smaller than design have an operations envelope that is smaller at both ends than a standard, government model, and tight 1911s malfunction due to dirt before milspec. (All weapons generate residue that fouls weapons. The only question is when. Longer is better.)
> 
> Others, I smiffed' until they ran correctly and reliably. A couple, the manufacturer fixed. Two have gone to smiths, including one nationally known smith. I don't really see any difference in the end product, outside of opinion. One or two, I haven't had to touch, they ran straight out of the box.
> 
> The weapons that ran straight out of the box, and the weapons that ran the longest were Springfields. The weapons I had the most trouble with were 3-1/2" Officers models, followed by a Wilson government model. Someone else owns them, now.
> 
> There was a Springfield Officer's model in which part of the recoil assembly left, and departed downrange, jamming the weapon so that it took tools to get it apart.
> 
> When I'm in a match against a small or tight 1911, I smile. I know which students will need weapons help when I see those weapons.
> 
> If I'm ever in a gunfight, I hope my opponent has a small, tight 1911.
> 
> There will now be a wailing and gnashing of teeth by Wilson owners and Officer owners. Do carry on.
> 
> Dance with the girl you brung.
> 
> ~Jammer


Still waiting for my uber tight Les Baer to turn into the jamm-o-matic you describe. Six years, 10,000 rounds and counting.....


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## rex

If you do get a few in the beginning don't freak out,get more rounds through it.I also believe Les says to shoot a certain amount of rounds through it right out of the box without cleaning.These guns are tight,sometimes hard to rack the slide,so the slurry of lube and residue final lap things in.After initial shooting they usually slick right up.


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## Paul1954

I have run over 5000 rounds through my Sig 1911 RSA and yet to have any problems. Now that being said tomorrow night at the range I will probably have a problem.


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## JBCOLT1911

Hi new here!

I have a Colt 1911 Enhanced Gov Mdl. Just got it in Nov 2012.

Its 20 yrs old and I have no history from the prior owner(s).

Its been carried a lot but shot very little. I have put about 250 rounds
through it, fmj, jhp, weird looking semi wad cutters and absolutely no problems
at all.

Fired every round perfectly.

Jimmy


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## rex

Nice,and unmolested.Check the firing pin safety timing to be sure it's right.I'm in the middle of moving but let me kow if you don't know how or can't find it,I'll be popping in when I can for a day or 2.


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## Jammersix

Unmolested?

I think you better look again.


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## rex

I don't know what you're seeing but everything there is correct for an early 90s XSE.The lighting masks the finish flaws but everything else looks factory just like mine was,except mine had an extended thumb safety.

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks,you'll have to point it out to me.


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## 1911fan

Shooting a kimber custom 2. Had four failures to eject. One to not replacing the spring. Three to ammo. I was shooting the Winchester white box during the failuers to eject. Stopped counting after 2000 rounds two years ago. Also ran about 50 rounds of 460 Rowland. No failures there.


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## Stengun

Howdy,

I voted "0" failures. 

I have a Norinco 1911A1 that is box stock except for a 2-piece guide rod, Wilson 18 1/2lb recoil spring and a light honing of the sear and hammer. 

The only failures I have had were due to a cheapo range mag and a couple of my reloads that were duds. 

I've fired over 15,000 rounds of everything for steel cases ammo, to all types of factory ammo, my crappy reloads, mainly 200gr LSWC @ 1,000ft/sec. all the way up to .45 Super 260gr JHP. 

I've shoot numerous IDPA, IPSC and unsanctioned matches with it in the +20 years that I have owned her. I would never sell or trade her away and would love to have another Norinco 1911. 

Paul

P.S. Like I posted in another thread, my Norinco will feed anything that you can stuff in the mag. I can even take a 250gr JHP bullet and seat it backwards and it will still feed.


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## KampfJaeger

I have Colts, Springers, and RIAs. I've never owned one of the premium Mfg.s. Never had a problem with one. I hear the stories on the Internet all the time, and can't relate.


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## RegasAZ

I thought I was having a problem with FTF on my 1911. Closer attention showed the problem was ME. On random occasions (being left handed) my trigger finger would bump the slide lock and partially engage it. Drilling a very small detent at the back of the slide lock where the plunger spring hits against the slide lock, the problem disappeared.


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## Ksgunner

Kimber Pro Carry II, no issues, I think it is a wonderful gun...


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## spooler41

I'm new too the 1911 show, just got my first one,a Rock Island MS1911A1 and have not had a chance to get it out to shoot.
It's been too foggy and wet to go to my favorite shooting spot, I'm looking forward to some better weather soon. I'll get back 
after I've run a few boxes of ammo through it.

................................Jack


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## Pistol Pete

Only one in my Kimber CustomII since I dimpled the slide stop. It didn't work well out of the box. I have a Ruger Commander with maybe 250 rds, one failure, bullet ended up in front of the extractor. Quit using the Ruger mags, now no problem so far. I have 2 older Colt series 80s and haven't had a problem with either since I got my dies adjusted. If you have a problem that seems unexplained in a 1911 it is usually traced to the ammo or the mag.


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## spooler41

Well the weather cleared today and I drove out to my favorite shooting spot. When I got there there was still snow on the ground but I went ahead
and ripped off 50 rounds with my new Rock Island MS1911 A1, all I can say is"Nice". I knew almost right away this gun was a keeper, it has a really smooth,light trigger and real light recoil. This is going to be too much fun, I managed 44 9&10 ring shots out of 50 @15 yards. I love repeatability.

...........................Jack


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## norb5150

I voted zero... But, I only have 100 rounds through my 1911 at this point and only one brand. WWB 230grn FMJ ball. I'm intolerantly impatiently waiting for tolerable weather to go to range again. The temp here has been in the single digits to low teens for the last several weeks and the range I go to is outdoors


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## oldman45

I have owned and currently own several 1911 firearms. They range from obscenely priced to dirt cheap. I carry a custom S&W 1911 daily. It was built for me five years ago and gets shot weekly with about 100 rounds per week. Never had a problem.

The only problem I ever had in the 1911 platform was with a Llama and that was back about 1977. The gun was very low quality and I should have expected problems. I got rid of it a few days later.


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## GCBHM

Wandering Man said:


> I'm just curious, is my gun the only 1911 that runs flawlessly?
> 
> Since its break-in period (500 - 700 rounds), how many failures have you had with your 1911?
> 
> Please elaborate:
> 
> What gun were you shooting?
> 
> Had it been cleaned and lubed recently?
> 
> How many rounds between cleanings before choking?
> 
> What ammo did it choke on?
> 
> Please, don't tell us about your "friend's" gun or the "friend of a friend's" gun. I want to hear directly from 1911 shooters.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> WM


I've owned and shot many 1911s over the years, and I have to say I have never had a problem with any of them. I did speak with a retired police officer that said he carried one for years until it jammed on him, and he said he lost confidence in it after that and bought a Sig P226 to carry until he retired. I know you said not to tell you about a friends gun, but honestly his is the only story I've heard from anyone who ever had a problem with one. Sorry!


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## rex

1911s have problems and have for 50 years, they have to if you think about it.

In the beginning there was Colt and licensed contractors making a good, reliable, partially "modular" gun. There were a few changes made and then they were accurized, all's good until the late 60's.

Now we're in the timeframe of Colt's change with the 70 series and quality issues, Bill Wilson and the boys started what turned into the custom 1911s, and the copy companies started coming:

Colt's collet bushing was a cool idea of boosting consistant lockup for increased accuracy, and it worked well ,but not always. The quality was spotty then also, a brand new gun felt like a well shot service pistol but the new one next to it feels like a Gold Cup. That problem has been happening on and off until recently when Colt tightened up.

Wilson, Marvel, Heinie and the rest really didn't contribute personally to failing guns, it was those watching and wanting to cash in (meaning the copy market). There were problems because they were re-engineering a design so to say, companies have R&D and T&E departments to work out bugs. A classic example is when Bill Wilson made a spring and follower kit to convert any 45 7rd mag to an 8rd mag. Some worked and some wouldn't. Then he made a tube based on the wadcutter feedlips and had his own 8rd mag and others followed suit, but they didn't always work because something was still off. Basically these guys were the R&D and T&E for quite a while that got us what we have today for fine 1911s. These guys are also responsible for overcoming the problems associated with the Officer's Model, which really pushed the limitations of the original design.

The copycats, that's where it really went south. Llama and Auto Ordnance were early on the scene here and both were crap, there were a lot that shot and functioned just fine, but a lot wouldn't. Over time there are well over 30 ( I believe 50 would be truthful) manufacturers copying the 1911 for the civilian market, Holly crap! With that comes a whole spectrum of material and assembly quality, deviations on specs and tolerances, and in Remington's case the lack of basic knowledge of how the pistol operates (thankfully they learned the major error they made and corrected it).

I've seen finely fitted ones, brand new rattlecans, ammo sensitive with a throated barrel (Kimbers with miscut frame ramps as another major fail), broken parts, yadayada. They're out there and a lot of them, but there's also many more that will run until something is worn out. There is such a plethora in the 1911 world you don't see or hear that much really unless you are very heavily into them, I get reminded of things I forgot about a long time ago or it's buried under layers of other stuff.


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## Blackhawkman

I have an SR1911 and a G21. I shot 3 boxes of 230 gr FMJ. I had one box of 200 gr jacketed SWC, Federal. I had Failure to feed on both guns. The same SWC's also did this on 3 other guns. It was Federal ammo. JM .02's worth. BhkMan


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## Steve M1911A1

Blackhawkman said:


> I have an SR1911 and a G21. I shot 3 boxes of 230 gr FMJ. I had one box of 200 gr jacketed SWC, Federal. I had Failure to feed on both guns. The same SWC's also did this on 3 other guns. It was Federal ammo. JM .02's worth. BhkMan


That sounds less like a problem with the guns, and more like a problem with your shooting technique.
If your wrists are "loose," or your arms aren't locked, your body is absorbing some of the recoil force that the pistols need to operate properly.

If that's not it, then it could be a magazine feed-lips issue, or a feed-ramp issue. But it's unlikely that you'd experience those exact same problems with several different guns.


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## rex

If this was the lower level Federal ammo I'll be there is the problem. Federal's upper line and Match ammo is good stuff, but their cheap line isn't very consistant. SWC's are also finicky feeders no matter what gun it is, the feed path has to be smooth, the release timing needs to be right, and different guns can like different OAL with SWC and truncated cones. 5 guns puking on it leads me to believe it's the ammo.


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## Water-Man

I've been running a Springfield Loaded for fourteen years and have never had a problem.

All I shoot through it is FMJ, but good FMJ.


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## Owyhee

Why would anyone go 1700 rounds without cleaning?



Mike Barham said:


> Never made an excuse for Glocks choking. Limpwristing is a well-known cause of malfunctions in Glocks, probably more so than in most poly guns. The list of reasons 1911s choke seems rather longer, however. :mrgreen:
> 
> Not to say there are not reliable 1911s. Based on this thread, at least, there are some. But every single time I go to a class or match where guns get shot hard, the 1911s almost aways puke and the modern guns generally run.
> 
> It's great that you clean your 1911 every 100 rounds and it's reliable. But my Glock 17 is currently at about 1700 rounds without a malfunction or a cleaning. I like the margin for error with the latter gun.


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## VAMarine

Owyhee said:


> Why would anyone go 1700 rounds without cleaning?


Busy weekend?


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## DirtyDog

I've had two extraction failures with my Para Ordnance P14-45, both when shooting super cheap Russian steel cased ammo. One only required me to rack the slide. The other case had some over-expansion and I had to push it out with a cleaning rod.
No failures of any kind with good ammo. 
I've only put about 1000 rounds through it so far, though.


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## dakota1911

Referring to the one I carry which is a Colt Commander I bought new in 2007. No problems. All I have done is change the stocks. Carry 230gr Win. HPs and shoot a lot of 230 gr. Win. FMJ at the range. I clean and lube it after shooting and try to shoot it at least every other week. It is up to over 4K rounds through it now


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## DLYskes1976

Sig Scorpion Carry

ammo - perfecta 230gr and some winchester jhp, 

failures - zero!!!!!!! 

about the only thing i was a bit worried about was when i first took the gun out to shoot it... it seemed a bit tight.. i didnt lube the slide before i shot it.. cuz it did have some factory lube on the slide grooves.. but after about 100 rounds thru the gun and then cleaning it and lubing it up good it's good and broke in !! 

i've even done a rapid fire of 150 rounds and didnt have one issue.. 

hence why i use my 1911 as my edc..


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## win231

I've owned several 1911's - Two Colts, three Kimbers & a S&W. None functioned 100%. Then I broke down & bought a Wilson CQB I'd been eyeing but didn't want to pay the price. 6,300 rounds later & never malfunctioned, I realized _"Ya gotta pay if ya want a really reliable 1911."_


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## Freethought

I'm the wrong person to weigh in on this , there isn't a single sidearm I possess of any stripe that doesn't function , firearms here that don't function don't stay. This goes double/triple/eons more for *any* sidearm that will be carried for defensive purposes , be it defense in the bush against four-legged entities who might want a snack or a sidearm geared towards social work. 

A word on something that I have seen many folks forget , *never* carry magazines that you have not previously tested for function. You may well be betting *your life* on the function of the given sidearm and it's magazines if push ever does come to shove. Best to copper your bet in *your* favor.


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## casurvivor

I have 7 1911s now, any one that fails, either get fixed or traded/sold


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## 1911crazy

I think the biggest problems with new owners to the 1911 is they try to feed hollow points when some brands won't feed them. These 1911 pistols were made for FMJ Hardball AMMO.


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## VAMarine

1911crazy said:


> I think the biggest problems with new owners to the 1911 is they try to feed hollow points when some brands won't feed them. These 1911 pistols were made for FMJ Hardball AMMO.


If a "modern" 1911 (with a VERY limited number of Match pistols excluded) does not fees hollow points, there is something wrong with the gun.

I should be able to take a current Colt 1918 Repro and fire hollow points all day long.


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## Livingthedream

Have a Para Ordnance P-13 I purchased new in 1996 and have had multiple problems with it up until just recently. I have replaced just about every possible part over the years to try and get it to run without some sort of malfunction. What is the saying it is always the last thing you try. After reading an article I decided to try to tune the extractor and to my surprise it solved all my feeding problems and ejection issues. Have since put around 800 round through it without a hiccup.


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## osbornk

Ria Rock 9mm has never had a malfunction.


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## ShariMetoyerla

*no failures as of yet. shot more than 800 rounds*

My favorite ammo are the following due to fact that they have never ever given me failures or jams.

LAX ammo new factory loads, 45 ACP Ammo-Fiocchi - 230gr FMJ, 45 ACP Ammo- Silver Bear


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## Blackhawkman

None--ever! Colt Navy & Rand function flawlessly
Even my Norinco 1911, too!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stephen Bachiler

Wandering Man said:


> I'm just curious, is my gun the only 1911 that runs flawlessly?
> 
> Since its break-in period (500 - 700 rounds), how many failures have you had with your 1911?
> 
> Please elaborate:
> 
> What gun were you shooting?
> 
> Had it been cleaned and lubed recently?
> 
> How many rounds between cleanings before choking?
> 
> What ammo did it choke on?
> 
> Please, don't tell us about your "friend's" gun or the "friend of a friend's" gun. I want to hear directly from 1911 shooters.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> WM


Remington R1

Best guess is 2500 rounds. I was having failure around 700 rounds. Maybe 15 or so. But I diagnosed the problem as the factory 7 round magazines that came with the weapon. Swapped to WC 8 rounders and literally haven't had 1 problem since. It is my favorite to shoot (minus the occasional hammer bite


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## Budlight_909

zero up to now.


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