# Looking for subcompact 9mm..........



## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

I am looking for a subcompact 9mm for my wife and for some concealed carry for me. I am reviewing the following...

Ruger LC9 $339
Kel-Tech PF9 $249
Sig P290 $480
SCCY CPX 1 or 2 $299/$339
Diamonback DB9 ???

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Doesn't matter if its new or used. I want to spend about $325 but am willing to pay for something that is worth it.


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

croll326 said:


> I am looking for a subcompact 9mm for my wife and for some concealed carry for me. I am reviewing the following...
> 
> Ruger LC9 $339
> Kel-Tech PF9 $249
> ...


I would avoid the SCCY and DB9...too many bad experiences posted around the web. Other three are mostly reliable and reasonably accurate when you practice shooting. Out of those I would pick the Keltec because of true DAO operation, which gives you second strike, or more importantly, the ability to dry fire the pistol without racking the slide. Strangely, both the LCP and the 290 are hammer fired, but must be re-racked to recock the hammer....I find that odd.

Also, you might want to consider the Keltec P11m Taurus Millenium Pro, Taurus 709B Slim, Glock 26, Walther PPS, Springfield XD Subcompact, and the Bersa UltraCarry. The Millenium, 709B and Bersa are all DA/SA, which I prefer over striker because I can dry fire them easily. The Keltec is DAO with second strike, so that would be next on the list. For striker fired, the PPS if you can find one at your price point is the best, followed by the Glock, then Springfied. I listed that Taurus's last because of some problems with the Taurus brand, but I think it really depends on the pistol. If you buy Taurus, buy new.

But if you are looking for pocket carry, you should consider the Kahr, the 290 or the P11.

I just received a Cz 2075 RAMI, which is a little heavier, but more rounds, and hopefully, more reliability.

Good luck,
Thanks,


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## C1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Ruger LC9 shoots well for its size. Also take a look at the Springfield XD and XDm.

If this is going to be for your wife at home and for you to CC, I would look at getting two pistols. First, a handgun needs to fit the hand of the shooter well and also work well with their natural point of aim. What may work well for her may be too small for you. What fits you well may be too big for her. A medium or full size handgun (4" to 5" or a little over) is usually a better choice for a house gun.

See if you can rent or go shooting with a friend to see what you and your wife shoot well and like.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Early versions of the Kel-tec were plagued with problems; the current production has resolved those problems. Buy new.

Also consider a Smith and Wesson J-Frame revolver. They are light and reliable; and the steel and the aluminum framed versions are reasonably priced. The .38 stacks up well with the 9mm.

Also either the Ruger or S & W polymer revolvers. These can be had with a laser sighting system--a nice feature for beginning shooters. These are also competitively priced and exceedingly reliable. The battery of arms for a revolver is the easiest to master and loading and "making safe" are easy too.


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## Lee Hunter (May 25, 2011)

I carry a PF9 in a pocket holster during hot weather. It has a long DAO trigger pull, but it has gone bang everytime for me when I practice with it. It functions flawlessly with a variety of ammo. I load it with Federal 9BP SV ammo for PP.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I would avoid any gun made in Florida. Thats just me however.
My suggestion would be a Kahr CM9 get a quality weapon that is priced reasonably
rather then a cheap gun. You do get what you pay for when you spend 250 dollars on a handgun.

RCG


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Any gun under $500 is going to be of low reliability IMHO, I have heard decent things about Kahrs and Rugers generally great quality for the price, but if I were you I would try to find a used glock 26, you can get them for around $400 and the gun will fire every time


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

look at the kahr CM9
my little 5'4" wife said it felt good in her hand and my LGS guy swore by it and he had it on his hip
i am saving to get one too


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## Racinbob (Apr 30, 2011)

It will never completely replace my 442 but my LC9 has won me over for carry at times. 100% reliable and a joy to shoot. Kahr lost my business forever due to their horrible CS and a PM9 that was never fixed right. At least that was my case. Many folks like the Kahrs.


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## 1jimmy (Jul 30, 2011)

lc9 is a nice compact gun. the sig p290 is the same dimensions as the p238. which i have and love. i think the sig beats the ruger in size but not by much. i would put these to in the same class for quality and reliability and go with the one that looks best to her


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

1jimmy said:


> lc9 is a nice compact gun. the sig p290 is the same dimensions as the p238. which i have and love. i think the sig beats the ruger in size but not by much. i would put these to in the same class for quality and reliability and go with the one that looks best to her


I think they are both too heavy. The LC9 is about 17 ounces as I recall, and the Sig is about 20 ounces. The Kel-tec is about 12 ounces--and would make a better hideout gun (but perhaps with a bit more percieved recoil.


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

I am a die hard Sig fan,having said that, wife has a Ruger LCP and loves it.......try the Bersa Thunder .380 CC or 9mm....very high quality at a reasonable price point...


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Bersa ...very high quality? Interesting, The finish on every Bersa I have ever touched was sub par at best. They must have improved drastically in the past couple years.

RCG


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

I have a Bersa 380 thunder CC as well, and I absolutely love that gun. The trigger operation is fantastic, and it is accurate and has good safety features. It is a little big for pocket carry IMHO, but is perfect for IWB concealment and purse carry. My girlfriend loves to shoot this gun. It has never failed to fire a round after 250 rounds of a variety of HP ammo. I got the nickel version and it looks great, too. 

Quality: This is not the highest quality gun that you will hand down to your grandkids. The workmanship is a bit rough in some areas. It does get dirtier than other guns because of the fixed barrel design, and you do need to clean it after every 50 rounds or so. And, the breakdown is EASY. 

I did not like the magazine safety because I like to dry-fire the gun, but it was easy to disable by removing the associated parts. 

Most of my other guns have had one problem or another, but the Bersa 380CC has never failed and been great to shoot. It was modeled after the Walther PPK, after all. 

Check out the BLUE version with the GOLD trigger and levers!...beautiful!

Good luck and be safe


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

still like the kahr CM9 but for price a new keltec PF9 is good
i had a glock 26 but with the double stack it is not a pocket pistol


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## Overkill0084 (Nov 28, 2010)

How much shooting does your wife do? Small guns are not that easy to shoot well. For a dual use pistol, I would conside a compact frame rather than a Sub-compact. Something like a Glock 19 (or similar in size) is small enough to conceal but large enough that inexperienced shooters will find it less of a challenge. I have an XD40SC and I have to practice regularly to stay comfortable with it. My wife hates it. 
Before you buy anything, you should find a way to have her shoot it first to see how it works for her. 
YMMV


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## MitchellB (Aug 14, 2010)

I have a KelTec PF9 and carry it almost daily. Mine has been flawless in operation and I keep it loaded with 147 gr JHPs. I really like the small easily concealable size but still in a service caliber. However, be prepared to inspect, clean and smooth some of the rough edges on a new one. I'm not a fan of the Ruger copy because they have a safety lever, but Ruger and Sig makes fine guns. I don't know much about SCCY or Diamonback, but I'd prefer my KelTec PF9 over SCCY, even though a local gun dealer tried to convince me otherwise. The CPX 1 has a safety lever which I do not like, but the CPX2 does not.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

MitchellB said:


> I have a KelTec PF9 and carry it almost daily. Mine has been flawless in operation and I keep it loaded with 147 gr JHPs. I really like the small easily concealable size but still in a service caliber. However, be prepared to inspect, clean and smooth some of the rough edges on a new one. I'm not a fan of the Ruger copy because they have a safety lever, but Ruger and Sig makes fine guns. I don't know much about SCCY or Diamonback, but I'd prefer my KelTec PF9 over SCCY, even though a local gun dealer tried to convince me otherwise. The CPX 1 has a safety lever which I do not like, but the CPX2 does not.


When did you get yours? I heard that the current production is much improved and the owner provided finishing touches are no longer required.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

KT's are 250 bucks for a reason. They work I am told, however they are a pain to shoot (literally), are unpleasant to look at, require some detail and TLC from the owner and are lose and wobbly in their fit and finish. But hey 250 bucks and you have a weapon to defend yourself. If all you have is 250 and you want to be armed, thank goodness for the good folks at KT.

RCG


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I have not seen the Nickle finish 380.....I would be interested to see a pic of yours if you don't mind. I here the nickle finish is subject to flaking, and you need to avoid Hoppes style cleaners on it......true?

RCG


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

recoilguy said:


> I have not seen the Nickle finish 380.....I would be interested to see a pic of yours if you don't mind. I here the nickle finish is subject to flaking, and you need to avoid Hoppes style cleaners on it......true?
> 
> RCG


Once I can figure out how to get Picasa images embedded....do you know how? I have read all the help-threads on this board...no help.

I have been using Hoppes to clean this gun with no problems. There is some flaking of the nickel....but minor IMHO. The chrome-plated trigger plunger has lost some chrome...again minor. But the real value is shooting this gun.....it has a fantasic trigger both DA and SA and is accurate and is easy on the hands. The plastic grips are cheap and I will probably replace them once I find some nice ones...I saw some really nice wood ones, but at $60 each, not ready to spend that kind of money....may get regular Thunder grips and modify them for CC model.

Will get pics sometime soon.
Good Luck and Be Safe!


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> KT's are 250 bucks for a reason. They work I am told, however they are a pain to shoot (literally), are unpleasant to look at, require some detail and TLC from the owner and are lose and wobbly in their fit and finish. But hey 250 bucks and you have a weapon to defend yourself. If all you have is 250 and you want to be armed, thank goodness for the good folks at KT.
> 
> RCG


They have more percieved recoil because they weigh 12.5 ounces instead of 20 ounces.

Current production is supposed to be quite good. The gun's designer (I cannot remember his name) is held in high regard in the industry.

*Nutnfancy* give the gun excellent reviews as a back up weapon.

The low price has more to do with production efficiencies than poor quality.

After tooling is paid for, how much do you suppose the molded frame costs to produce? I would estimate about $0.50 to $1.00 each.

But the mold cost might be $100,000.00. So if you only sell 10,000 guns you need to add $100.00 to each frame to pay for the mold.

But if you are like Kel-tec and you sell a low cost, high volume gun and sell 100,000 guns, then the cost of the frame is $1.00 for the mold, plus the molding cost as above.

So a gun that sells in quantity at $270.00 (the cheapest that I've seen) is not half as good as a low quantity weapon at $540.00 each.

And Glock, which is a high volume producer of very good weapons that are very high value because of the quantities produced, and are certainly at $600.00 not 1/4 the quality of a 1911 that costs $2,400.00.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I was refering to the grips texturing not the recoil that hurts. To me it is like holding a cheese grater and then shooting it. The giant amount of recoil just activates the cheese grater effect on your hand. 

I too, believe the cost has to do with production efficiencies, which give it the loose, rattly, and sloppy fit and finish. Which in my world equates to poor quality. I don't believe I said that the cost was in direct proportion to the quality of the weapon. I did imply cheaper guns have less quality parts and workmanship, fitment, and eye appeal. I did not mean to imply a 1911 that goes for $2700 is 10X better then a KT. However I would spend the $2700 on Wilson Combat or a Ed Brown before I would spend 270 on a Kel Tec. I have no ill will for anyone who owns a KT, I am glad they have the opportunity to own a weapon. but if I won one in a raffle I would never take it out of the box before I traded it or gave it away. It seems silly that anyone would want me to change my mind on this Until KT makes a gun I would be proud to carry I won't.

RCG


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

To a certain extent loosely fitted slides on an automatic will yield improved reliablity at the expense of accuracy.

Everyone admires the tightly fitted components on the Rohrbaugh 9mm weapons. But in a real world with minimal sights, at defensive shooting distances I don't know that the accuracy that is lost due to loosely fitted slides is meaningful.

Reliability is paramount and the Kel Tec has been reliable according to recent articles I've read. 

Is the Kel-Tec's grip surface significantly harder on your hands than a Gen4 Glock? I will have to shoot one and decide. But grip decals are cheap and a quick fix for that.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

And there you have it.........................Rohraugh is widely admired in the gun community for the fine weapon he makes and his skill as a craftsam, the guy from KT is also widely admired in the gun community, for making an inexpensive weapon that works and his skill at making parts at the least possible price. We are looking at the 2 extremes here you realize.

Reliablity is paramount and if as you say, KT is reliable then like I said before I am glad there are people who can arm themselves and protect their families for $270 bucks. I am also very glad I do not have to make the choice to either not be armed or buy a KT. I want more from a gun then ....it works, its light and they make holsters for it and it comes with a coupon for band aids. (Sorry that may have been out of line) Maybe I am too picky.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> And there you have it.........................Rohraugh is widely admired in the gun community for the fine weapon he makes and his skill as a craftsam, the guy from KT is also widely admired in the gun community, for making an inexpensive weapon that works and his skill at making parts at the least possible price. We are looking at the 2 extremes here you realize.
> 
> Reliablity is paramount and if as you say, KT is reliable then like I said before I am glad there are people who can arm themselves and protect their families for $270 bucks. I am also very glad I do not have to make the choice to either not be armed or buy a KT. I want more from a gun then ....it works, its light and they make holsters for it and it comes with a coupon for band aids. (Sorry that may have been out of line) Maybe I am too picky.


I don't own a Kel-Tec. But I like it because of its weight (12-1/2 ounces). I just ordered a S & W 340 PD because of the light weight too.

The other weapons seem nice, but not for pocket carry. They seem too heavy for that. For holster carry, I have other choices.

So the Sig looks great (but at 20 ounces it is heavier than the Glock G27), and the Kimber Solo looks great but at 17 ounces it is nearly 50% heavier than the Kel-Tec.

So if you are carrying on the belt, I agree with you. The heavier weapons are easier to shoot. But for pocket carry I think the weight is a disadvantage for those weapons.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

My 2 cents, if this is to be carried IWB instead of pocket carry I'd vote Walther PPS. Very thin, high quality, reliable and shootable. For pocket carry a Rohrbaugh, Kahr PM9 or perhaps a MK9 if you can handle the weight would be good bets. Not saying others recommended are not good but these are proven time tested winners. Good IWB double stack sub-compact 9mm's options abound (G26, XDSC, M&P, HK P2000SK, SR9c, etc.).


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## MitchellB (Aug 14, 2010)

I got my PF9 last year. You’re right, I think I could have shot the gun as is right out of the box without the extra TLC, but I had several days before I could shoot it and figured I could only make it better by doing a few things to it and personalizing it somewhat. I enjoy tinkering. The PF9 is not a range gun or a work of art, but IMHO it is a well-made and well-designed CCW. You get what you pay for usually and to me the PF9 could easily sell for more than they actually do. Price is not always a measure of quality. I polished my feed ramp. Maybe I did not have to, but it did not hurt to do it either, and hopefully it helped. I cleaned the gun thoroughly and greased and lubed as needed before ever shooting it. I do this with any new gun whether it needs it or not. There were some sharp edges on the plastic that I did not like, that I smoothed with some fine sandpaper where I gripped the pistol. I cold blued the barrel and waxed the blued slide and barrel to help with rust prevention. I installed a belt clip and the finger extension to the magazine. The finger extension was about right for a 2 finger grasp for me, but I trimmed some of the extension bottom away to allow my little finger to curl under the magazine more comfortably. I have always heard their customer service is superb, but I’ve never had to use it. There is also a Kel-Tec forum that can answer just about any question you can think of about the gun. The gun is on my belt now as I type this in a custom kydex IWB holster with a slot cut to allow the belt clip to remain on the gun. With this set up I can carry 3 different ways; IWB in the holster, OWB but under belt in the holster, or use the belt clip only in pocket or belt making it a very versatile setup.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

The Diamond Back DB9 is now available. It reads like a nice piece. I have not shot one. It looks like a single stack Glock. I've seen the take-down pictures and it field strips like a Glock.

Just 11 ounces (12.7 ounces with the magazine, empty).

Just .80" thick.

Looks pocketable.

Has anyone shot one?


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Diamondback is made by some ex-KT guys in a shop down the road from KT. The .380 that first came out with was plaqued with design flaws and wrought with poorly made parts. I looked at one and held it and it was a good looking little thing, however my LGS guy showed me reciepts for 5 of the 7 he sold going back for repair. Thats not the odds I want. I have not held or even seen the DB9 and imagine it is a decent looking weapon. Diamondback may have worked out the flaws and I hope they did. I also would be interested in some real and actual feedback on the DB( as well.

I enjoy hearing a success story and I would like to hear these guys broke away started a company and made a good product. It is quite a gamble now a days to start any company let alone a gun one. I hope to hear good reviews.

RCG


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> ...It is quite a gamble now a days to start any company let alone a gun one. I hope to hear good reviews.
> 
> RCG


Actually the carry concealed weapon business seems to be thriving (growing at least).

The risk is in the injection mold itself. When Kimber comes out with a new gun all they are risking is the time it took to program their CNC milling machines. But when there is a plastic frame, that mold could cost as much as $100,000.00 (for a multi-cavity mold; less for a single cavity mold).


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I can't say enough positive things about my Ruger LC9 in 9mm.










I usually carry on my hip.

Sig Sauer P239










But when I go somewhere and need a pocket gun ... it's my Ruger LC9 that gets the nod.

Real good sights on it. Long but smooth trigger pull.

If you practice with it ... it's real accurate to shoot.

:smt1099


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