# have a few concerns



## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

So, I just got back from an underway and while I was out, my Midway package arrived with some toys for me. I don't have any powder or primers yet, I plan on getting some tomorrow, I did set up my press with the 9mm dies and started playing with it. I practiced a little with some cases and some fmj getting the correct OAL dialed in. Anyway, for Christmas my dad got me some 115gr hornady xtp's and I tried one in the press as well, however when it came out the cavity mouth was a little smushed. upon reading further into the supplied directions with the die set, I read that you may need an altered bullet seating mandrel that is inside the die itself and you can send it in with the smushed hollow point to Lee and they will rework it for you. On to my ? Before I blow a lot of money on .380 defensive bullets (specifically the 102gr Golden Saber) will the Lee .380acp die set smush the hollow point or do I need to get it fixed. If it does, I'll just use the die for practice ammo and buy my defensive already loaded. I would like to load my own defensive ammo, but I want to know if I have to get the mandrel modified or not. Thanks for your help, this thing is really cool, can't wait to actually load some rounds. :smt1099


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## mactex (Jan 23, 2007)

I can't speak directly to the question you ask as I've never used Gold Saber bullets. But, I can say that I've used my Lee 9mm and 380 dies to load lots of hollow point without any problems. I'm a bit surprised at the results you ran into. Try a coupld of 380 out and see how it goes. If it has problems too, send both dies back to Lee in the same box to save a few dollars on postage! :mrgreen:


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

A couple of thoughts: It may be that your seating and crimp die is not adjusted correctly. What I do to adjust the die is back the die out enough so that it doesn't start to crimp the case. I then start turning in the seating pin until the bullet is seated and the cartridge is the right length. Now back out the seating pin so it doesn't make contact with the bullet and start turning in the die untill you get the right crimp and lock the die. When you get the crimp right then leave the ram with the cartridge in the full up crimp position and run the bullet seater in against the top of the bullet. Run the cartridge out of the die and turn in the bullet seater just a bit more. Try again with a new shell and bullet and check overall length. If all is well you are done. If the bullet is in or out just a bit to far readjust the seater pin. Don't over crimp your cartridges! you are taper crimping and NOT roll crimping. Your crimp should just barely compress the bullet at the mouth of the case (If even that much)! That should take care of 99% of your deformation problem.

ALSO: Make sure you are flairing the case mouth enough so that the bullet is just starting to slip into the case mouth but no more than that.
Let us know how this works for you.


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## The_Vigilante (Aug 29, 2008)

In addition to the above it is the general consensus that you use factory ammo for personal defense-not reloads.


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

The_Vigilante said:


> In addition to the above it is the general consensus that you use factory ammo for personal defense-not reloads.


That, however, is for entirely different reasons than having trouble reloading defensive rounds. :watching:

KG


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## benzuncle (Aug 29, 2007)

Nuke, I reload 102gr Remington Golden Sabers for SD loads and 230gr Golden Sabers for both of my CC 45's. The GS's cycle really well in all 3 firearms; I have never had a FTF or FTE with either caliber. Ever. 

I use the Lee Carbide Dies in my Classic Turret Press and have had not problems after my initial setup. When I set up my first caliber, the 45acp, I shoved my first bullet all the way down into the casing! :mrgreen: Oops! After a llittle readjusting, I got it where I wanted it and have never had to mess with the OAL since. What I learned was that before I prime and charge a casing I make sure I have the seating and crimp die adjusted. This works for me.


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## johnr (Jun 13, 2008)

not to hijack, but....

disreguarding the cost of the reload equipment,brass and personal time. how much per round (50 or 100) for reloading the 9mm. 

i have always assumed (i guess everyone knows what that means) that reloading was econimical only on larger caliburs and specialty (bottle neck) rounds.

YMMV.

John


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

johnr said:


> not to hijack, but....
> 
> disreguarding the cost of the reload equipment,brass and personal time. how much per round (50 or 100) for reloading the 9mm.
> 
> ...


That depends on how deep you want to go in reloading. I like jacketed bullets very much but I can cast them out of wheel weights for free or almost free. 99% of my brass is someone elses discard so I'm only out for the powder and primers. That's pretty hard to beat no matter what you are loading.

As to Factory or reload for self defense, I'll use my reloads. Nobody yet has come up with a case were that wive's tale was used in court.:smt116

Getting back to my earlier post on the crimp and seat die......The idea is to get the crimp operation set so it isn't grabbing the bullet while it is still being seated.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

One of the reasons I have reccomended the Lee Loadmaster over their Pro 1000 is the additional 2 die positions allow you to set bullet height prior to crimping. If setting both with one die the crimp will cause considerably more pressure to be applied to the bullet tip in the final few thousandths of an inch travel causing the damage indicated.

Lee probably already knows the contour required for XTP's or Gold Dots and other popular bullets. You might start with a phone call to them. They have always been friendly folks when I have called.


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## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks for your input guys, I will try again on the crimp adjust first as suggested. I just got done loading my first 10 rounds (115gr fmj, virgin brass, win primers, and 5gr of Bullseye). This is awesome, it is so easy. Of course I was overly cautious, checking to ensure every charge went in. Is the auto disk powder measure supposed to scatter a few specks of powder here and there? I assume its just the tolerances by design of the auto disk powder measure, so that it operated smoothly. I was wondering how I can tell if the cases are being crimped correctly, I did pull one of my bullets with an inertial hammer style puller because I noticed the primer was not seated fully, an error on my part I'm sure. I reloaded it and it was just fine. It did take quite a few hard thwaks to pull the bullet, so I assume the crimp was OK. Does Bullseye normally come in a little cube of a can with a metal seal on it. The lid opens by pushing on it, kinda like some breath mint tins. I think I bought an old can of it, the shop I frequent is full of great relics, I think this might be just another one. I hope powder doesn't expire. I also picked up some Unique as well. I am gonna place another order to Midway soon for dies and .380 stuff.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

It pays to be cautious in this game Nuke. If you pulled a bullet to check crimp you should see a faint ring around it where the crimp occured. You don't want a deep ring as that indicates too much crimp.

My auto rounds 9MM and .40 are loaded such that the case is straightened out from where the flare die expanded it. I apply very little actual crimp. insertion of the bullet forces the brass to swell slightly in all areas except where the flare is resulting in a force fit which will hold most loads acceptably. If you try to hot rod with excessive powder charges you might need a little more crimp but normal, on chart, loads dont require it.

Autos seat in the chamber on the forward end of the case whereas rimmed revolver cartridges seat on the rim. If an auto cartridge is crimped like revolver cartridges it may shift too far forward out of reach of the firing pin. That would be extreme but posssible.

Static electrical charges on plastic elements will, in my low humidity area, cause powder particles to jump out of the powder transfer disk when moved to the drop position. small quantities will also slip out between the disk and elastomer seal which lies between the hopper and disk. Both of these problems can be reduced by applying a small amount of powder graphite on them. Graphite is conductive and breaks down the static charge. It also helps condition the elastomer seal. Graphite is used as an elemental part of powders so should have no detrimental impact on your cartridges if used occasionaly in small quantities.

One other item I just recently became aware of is the Hopper being out of square with the disk. The hopper is contained by a screw which is offset from center. Upward pressure from the elastomer seal causes the hopper to tilt a bit resulting in a better seal on the screw side of center. This allows an occasional powder particle to find its way out. I applied a Micky Mouse fix to this problem by using elastic from an old pair of suspenders which I install between the brass thumb nuts over the top of the hopper. I cut it to rough length then used leather punch to make holes the diameter of the nuts on each end. End result, the hopper is pressed down a bit tighter on the seal and powder leakage is eliminated.

One other item some of you may benefit from.

The primer feed requires a full stack of primers to function properly. Attempting to use the stack down to the last primer is a real PITA if not impossible. My fix is rather than using all primers I use tweezers to pull all but the last couple of primers back up the track. I then use a small 1/16 " or smaller allen wrench (short end) to push the stack all the way up into the hopper Then use the tweezers to prevent any falling out of the hopper as I remove it from the mechanism.

I hope this helps a bit.

Have fun but stay safe.


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## kev74 (Mar 22, 2008)

TOF's words of wisdom in regard to to the Lee presses are right on! :smt023

I've noticed that some of the powder messiness is caused from the sudden stop as the shell holder stops at the seat/crimp station. This powder will eventually work its way into the primer seating area and screw up the works. I've given up trying to do everything all in one pass (at TOF's suggestion) and now size/deprime and prime in one step then go back and load the primed cases with powder and bullet. It seems quicker doing it in 2 steps because there is no down time cleaning or adjusting the press.

I've also noticed that if the timing of the shell holder isn't perfect, the primer seating operation will get messed up. This results (for me) in sideways primers in the cases. The fix is to keep the shell holder adjusted so that it always snaps into each station without any hesitation or holdup. 

I hope this helps. Good luck!


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

TOF said:


> It pays to be cautious in this game Nuke. If you pulled a bullet to check crimp you should see a faint ring around it where the crimp occured. You don't want a deep ring as that indicates too much crimp.
> 
> My auto rounds 9MM and .40 are loaded such that the case is straightened out from where the flare die expanded it. I apply very little actual crimp. insertion of the bullet forces the brass to swell slightly in all areas except where the flare is resulting in a force fit which will hold most loads acceptably. If you try to hot rod with excessive powder charges you might need a little more crimp but normal, on chart, loads dont require it.
> 
> ...


TOF:
What if I don't own any old suspenders?
Just picking on the old guys tonight... 
Great info!
Jeff


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

You can also invest in a Dillon, and all these problems go away...

No suspenders required...

:smt033


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