# First pistol....S&W SW9VE or something else....thoughts?



## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

I am looking to get my first pistol. I plan to use it for target shooting, some concealed carry, and to keep in my nightstand. A guy I work with is very much in to shooting and pistols. He is selling his S&W SW9VE.

He is willing to sell it for $200 including the pistol, 2 mags of 15 rounds each, hip holster, and some ammo to get me started. I know this gun has been well taken care of. This seems like a great deal but I have 2 concerns. First is that there is no manual safety and second that each pull of the trigger is DA and appears to be a heavy trigger. This might not matter as I have nothing to compare it to and I would be a competitve shooter.

I am also considering a Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm or a Tauras 24/7 Pro. 

Since I am a new comer I have no intentions on spending more than $400 on a pistol to get started and I also have no issue with buying a gently used pistol. Any other suggestions of what to buy would be nice too.

I know everyone has opinions and I would like to hear them. Thanks for your advice.


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

The Sigma is pretty much reviled in the annals of hadgun lore. There is a reason your buddy is selling it, my friend. At $200, it's about $199 over-priced (IMHO). The trigger is horrific and the gun is a little tough to maintain. I'd pass on that one.

The Taurus--I'm tainted. My very first centerfire handgun was a Taurus PT945. It was hideous for accuracy, and when parts started flying off of it during range time, I sent it back, got it fixed, and sold it without firing another round from it. Since then, any Taurus auto is poison for me. Revolvers? Okay. Semi-autos, no way in heck.

For $400 you can pick up a police turn in GLOCK and some ammo, and be far better served than by either of those guns.

Dan


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Get the *best* gun you can afford. Make sure it feels good in your hand. That is a lot of stuff for 200 bucks. The reason the trigger pull is stiff is because there is no saftey. The trigger on that particular weapon is pretty terrible. It iss one of the biggest reasons it is a 200 dollar used gun.

If the saftey really bothers you, you will discount many good guns from your list. It is a matter of personal choice though do not let anyone talk you into what you are not comfortable with. Especially just because it is inexpensive. It is my experiance that is something is inexpensive it is that way for a reason.

RCG


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

I agree that you get what you pay for. I have no issues getting less for more money if it is a better overall choice. I feel a manual safety would be better and am leaning towards a pistol with it.

I also feel that there is no need for me to spend a lot of money ($500 or more) on a pistol for my first purchase. I am reading everything I can and understand that it comes down to personal feel and preference. All that aside, I want a quality pistol that will be hassle free and accurate.

What about a Cougar 9mm?


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

There is no need for a manual safety, if you are a safe gun handler. The gun will not go off unless you pull the trigger, and your trigger finger is nowhere near the trigger till you are ready to fire. If you don't trust yourself to be able to learn and execute that, don't handle a pistol until you are.

The best buy out there that I have seen in a new gun is the XD-9, for a little over $400, new. But it doesn't have a lever safety, either. Maybe the Ruger SR-9 would suit you, for around the same price.


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

croll326 said:


> All that aside, I want a quality pistol that will be hassle free and accurate.
> What about a Cougar 9mm?


I have the Cougar 8000 9mm. Great gun for the money! I have only put 150 rounds through it but so far no problems whatever. 
Eli


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

+1 Stoeger Cougar.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

croll326 said:


> I agree that you get what you pay for. I have no issues getting less for more money if it is a better overall choice. I feel a manual safety would be better and am leaning towards a pistol with it.
> 
> I also feel that there is no need for me to spend a lot of money ($500 or more) on a pistol for my first purchase. I am reading everything I can and understand that it comes down to personal feel and preference. All that aside, I want a quality pistol that will be hassle free and accurate.
> 
> What about a Cougar 9mm?


The Cougar is a good gun from what I hear the SR9c or a CW9 are also very good weapons at the 400 mark.

If you want quality and hassle free the S&W SW9VE is not a good choice in my opinion

RCG


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

Any other suggestions?


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## MitchellB (Aug 14, 2010)

$200 SW9VE is a decent deal for what you say you will use it for. I’d offer him $150 for it and see what he says. If he bought it new, he may have $250 to $300 in it depending on where he got it and whether he got the $50 rebate deal. They got a bad reputation when S&W first came out with the Sigma (before the 9VE model) many years ago for dependability, but all that has been cured and new guns come with a lifetime warranty. Any problems (if there were any) should have been fixed for free by S&W already. Many people hate the long double action trigger pull, but if you can shoot a double action revolver, the Sigma is a very accurate and dependable gun for the money. Ask your buddy if you can shoot it; buy the ammo and run a box of shell through it and see what you think. I’m an old revolver guy, so the trigger was never an issue for me. The feel of the gun in my hand is what sold me on my 9VE. Mine has been flawless so far and very accurate. You can spend more for a gun with a shorter, lighter, smoother trigger or with more levers and safeties, but I doubt you’ll see a much more accurate or dependable autoloader for the money.


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## crazy charlie (May 3, 2010)

croll326 said:


> I am looking to get my first pistol. I plan to use it for target shooting, some concealed carry, and to keep in my nightstand. A guy I work with is very much in to shooting and pistols. He is selling his S&W SW9VE.
> 
> He is willing to sell it for $200 including the pistol, 2 mags of 15 rounds each, hip holster, and some ammo to get me started. I know this gun has been well taken care of. This seems like a great deal but I have 2 concerns. First is that there is no manual safety and second that each pull of the trigger is DA and appears to be a heavy trigger. This might not matter as I have nothing to compare it to and I would be a competitve shooter.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by 'competitve shooter'?


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## crazy charlie (May 3, 2010)

HK Dan said:


> The Sigma is pretty much reviled in the annals of hadgun lore. There is a reason your buddy is selling it, my friend. At $200, it's about $199 over-priced (IMHO). The trigger is horrific and the gun is a little tough to maintain. I'd pass on that one.
> 
> The Taurus--I'm tainted. My very first centerfire handgun was a Taurus PT945. It was hideous for accuracy, and when parts started flying off of it during range time, I sent it back, got it fixed, and sold it without firing another round from it. Since then, any Taurus auto is poison for me. Revolvers? Okay. Semi-autos, no way in heck.
> 
> ...


 Well you have not, obviously, never owned a Sigma. Tough to maintain? (BS). Lifetime S&W warranty vs. a used Glock cop trade-in at twice the price?
You've bashed Taurus for accuracy. From what little I've read are you sure it was inaccurate, or you again 'blowing smoke'?


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## crazy charlie (May 3, 2010)

MitchellB said:


> $200 SW9VE is a decent deal for what you say you will use it for. I'd offer him $150 for it and see what he says. If he bought it new, he may have $250 to $300 in it depending on where he got it and whether he got the $50 rebate deal. They got a bad reputation when S&W first came out with the Sigma (before the 9VE model) many years ago for dependability, but all that has been cured and new guns come with a lifetime warranty. Any problems (if there were any) should have been fixed for free by S&W already. Many people hate the long double action trigger pull, but if you can shoot a double action revolver, the Sigma is a very accurate and dependable gun for the money. Ask your buddy if you can shoot it; buy the ammo and run a box of shell through it and see what you think. I'm an old revolver guy, so the trigger was never an issue for me. The feel of the gun in my hand is what sold me on my 9VE. Mine has been flawless so far and very accurate. You can spend more for a gun with a shorter, lighter, smoother trigger or with more levers and safeties, but I doubt you'll see a much more accurate or dependable autoloader for the money.


Well said and good advice. I have a Sigma .40 GVE and it's a good pistol. I have others that are nicer, but cost a lot more.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

This is the trouble asking for opinions on weapons on these forums. Especially cheap ones. People give their honest opinion and others get their dander up because they own one of the guns that is getting a less then stellar review. They feel compelled to defend their choice to buy what others deem cheap. The OP does a fine job saying he has a limit and doesn't want to go over it. He leaves little doubt his priorities are spend as little as possible and get a gun that shoots.

The reviews given are of the gun not the owner. If someone chooses to own a Sigma ....swell it doesn't change the fact that the best thing you can say is its a good gun *for the money* not its a good gun period. Especially if you've owned another gun or two. The OP has no issue getting less of a gun for less money, this S&W is ideal for him then. You wont find much out there for 200 bucks. Especially that comes with a couple mags and a holster.

As far as bashing Taurus goes HK Dan offered his comments as a stated _tainted opinion_. It was never presented as fact or in the form of a overall statement on the brand. I cant see how parts flying off of a gun can be the shooter and not the gun. Blowing smoke.....it does not appear that way to me but I have no history with him so I am only guessing.

just sayin

RCG


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

crazy charlie said:


> What do you mean by 'competitve shooter'?


Sorry..I meant I wouldnt be a competitive shooter.


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

Went to the range today and shot a Ruger P89. Not bad. Seemed big to me and I always had to aim high. I dont think this is a concealed carry pistol though. 

I might be using some $$ when uncle Sam gives me my money back. This would raise my cap to about $450. I want to save some money for other misc. things like ammo, holster, cleaning kit, ear & eye protection, etc...

When its all said and done I would like to have a good starter set up for around $600.00


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## AlphaPie (Jan 26, 2011)

I've owned a S&W Sigma for 8 months. I brought it to the range 3 times after which I told myself while pulling back onto the highway I've got to discard this worthless garbage before the weeks end. Which I did for about $150. I had several fail to feed and ejection problems, the magazine was crap and the accuracy left no large impression of craftsmanship on me. S&W makes pretty decent firearms minus the Sigma series, IMO. You can get a Tauras for under $400 which far surpasses Sigma in every way. Many large 'gun shops' may have trade in refurbished Glocks from law enforcement for under $500 as well. I would not trust my life to a Sigma, and I wouldn't trust to get my brass back out un-mauled either.


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

The Beretta/Stoeger Cougar/8000 has caught my eye. Good reviews and easy to take down. I am going this week to look at a few at the local store.


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## ronmail65 (Jan 18, 2011)

croll326 said:


> I am looking to get my first pistol. I plan to use it for target shooting, some concealed carry, and to keep in my nightstand. A guy I work with is very much in to shooting and pistols. He is selling his S&W SW9VE.
> 
> He is willing to sell it for $200 including the pistol, 2 mags of 15 rounds each, hip holster, and some ammo to get me started. I know this gun has been well taken care of. This seems like a great deal but I have 2 concerns. First is that there is no manual safety and second that each pull of the trigger is DA and appears to be a heavy trigger. This might not matter as I have nothing to compare it to and I would be a competitve shooter.
> 
> ...


First I highly recommend a hadngun safety class if you haven't taken one before. You'll learn a lot about safe handling, carry for defensive purposes, external safeties, handguns operation, and shooting in general.

Then, if you haven't shot much, find a local range that rents guns. Go several times and try different guns till you find a caliber and format that you feel comfortable with and meets your requirements. Then price shop based on different brands, new/used, and pricing. It sounds like you're starting to do this.

From a budget perspective, keep in mind that you may want a safe and other accessories (holster, extra mags, hearing protection, etc...). Again, it sounds like you're already heading down this path.

I guess my point is, don't base your decision solely on what your friend is selling and random advice from internet. Go get some first hand knowledge and experience. I think you'll be happier and more comfortable in the long run.

Good luck!


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

Going to a local shop tomorrow....on the list to check out are

Springfield XD compact
Glcok 19
Beretta Px9 compact
Stoeger Cougar 8000
Taurus 24/7 pro
Ruger SR9c
S&W M&P 9mm

Who knows what else ill find but this is a start

I have also been reading about 22 conversion kits for the Glock 19 which seem nice. Spend lots of time at the range getting used to the gun and not spend hundreds on ammo. Might be a good idea.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

You spend hundreds on ammo or hundreds on the conversion.

Its a good list you have there....lots of good guns.

Buds has teh kahr CW9 for $366 and in stock right now. Look at one they are nice guns too.

RCG


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

Springfield XD compact
Glcok 19
Beretta Px9 compact
Ruger SR9c

The list has been narrowed.....

I would say the top two finalist are the Glock19 and the Ruger SR9c. I just dont know if the extra money is justified for the Glock. I do like the availability of accessories for it though and the 22 conversion while initially expensive will save in the long run and allow me to shot shoot A LOT to get used to the gun for not a lot of cash.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

croll326 said:


> The Beretta/Stoeger Cougar/8000 has caught my eye. Good reviews and easy to take down. I am going this week to look at a few at the local store.


Now you're on the right track. :smt023


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

leaning toward the glock 19 but the questions is gen 3 or 4? I head problems with the gen 4 but like updated things. I see that a new spring is available to fix the ejection issue. hmmm......

what other guns have a nice 22 conversion kit?


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

CZ 75's do. That is a great gun right there. Their cinversion kit is called the kadet. 

If you want quality look at the CZ

RCG


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

crazy charlie said:


> Well you have not, obviously, never owned a Sigma. Tough to maintain? (BS). Lifetime S&W warranty vs. a used Glock cop trade-in at twice the price?
> You've bashed Taurus for accuracy. From what little I've read are you sure it was inaccurate, or you again 'blowing smoke'?


Compared to a GLOCK or an HK, they are harder to clean, period. I reckon that's what I meant.

I'm quite sure the PT945 was inaccurate. BTW, who conducted an unathorized rehydration of your wheaties, or do you just hate my screen name?

Dan


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

Sorry Charlie--I failed to address one of your "points". No, I have happily never owned a Sigma. Perhaps it's Karma, or maybe just one of my rare episodes of good judgement, but I have handled them extensively. I've never owned an edsel or a corvair either (yet those two examples share one thing with the Sigma--the impact they had on their parent company's sales).

I had a student who desperately wanted to improve in USPSA. He was (laughably) shooting a Sigma in Production and couldn't break out of "D" class. After 3 months of coaching his movement imrpoved, his draws and target transitions were clean, but his shots were slow and inaccurate.

When I finally threw up my hands, he bought a GLOCK 34. He was almost instantly (3 months) in "B" class and is today moving in on "A" class. For the record, that's semi-pro. It was the Sigma holding him back. You see, not all guns are created equal and that one was created less equal than most.

I'm sorry if my attitude offends your personal preferences or something, but if you're that personally invensted in that piece of raving shinola, I'm going to make a radical suggestion (as with Chris) and say "Go try something else, you'll like it". It doesn't matter what it is--well, a Lorcin or a Jennings will be about the same quality, but ANYTHING else would be impressive to you. If you think a stinking Sigma is "all that", you're going to worship Gaston Glock's night slippers or offer to name your next two kids "Hechler" and "Koch" when you try those.

As my dear old German Grandmother used to say--"You get used to hanging if you hang long enough". You're hanging, bro. Go try a combat handgun, brand name, and you'll be in heaven. Consider this an intervention.

<g>
Dan


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

Leaning towards a Glock 19 Gen 4. It seems that the issues with the recoil spring can be solved by not using cheap 115 grain ammo. Also, I have seen the adapter allowing the use of a Gen 3 spring in a Gen 4 Glock. This seems like another option.

Best price I have found is $559.00. Is this good bad or ok?

Also, there is a gun show this coming weekend so I will be going there to look around and maybe find a good deal or so. I will be taking cash.


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

If it has factory night sights, that's about right. Around here they are $459 plus tax NIB with standard sights.

If it's another $100 where you live, that's how it is. The truth is that the price will be forgotten long after the gun is being used, ya know? Buy the gun, you'll love it.


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

HK Dan said:


> If it has factory night sights, that's about right. Around here they are $459 plus tax NIB with standard sights.
> 
> If it's another $100 where you live, that's how it is. The truth is that the price will be forgotten long after the gun is being used, ya know? Buy the gun, you'll love it.


Nope. Standard sights. There is one small local place I am trying to call but they are only open at most Thurs-Sun. If they arent cheaper looks like I dont have much of a choise but to suck it up and pay.


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## crazy charlie (May 3, 2010)

HK Dan said:


> Sorry Charlie--I failed to address one of your "points". No, I have happily never owned a Sigma. Perhaps it's Karma, or maybe just one of my rare episodes of good judgement, but I have handled them extensively. I've never owned an edsel or a corvair either (yet those two examples share one thing with the Sigma--the impact they had on their parent company's sales).
> 
> I had a student who desperately wanted to improve in USPSA. He was (laughably) shooting a Sigma in Production and couldn't break out of "D" class. After 3 months of coaching his movement imrpoved, his draws and target transitions were clean, but his shots were slow and inaccurate.
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from....unfortunately.


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## HK Dan (Dec 22, 2010)

<chuckles> Back at ya Charlie. Sir, by way of a good will token, I shall send you a Gaston Glock nightslipper worship album, and two embroidered baby sweaters, one with the name "Hechler" and one with the name "Koch" on the breast. Thank you for your response.


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## croll326 (Jan 23, 2011)

the gun show SUCKED. tons of old gun and hardly any new handguns. big disappointment. i am tired of thinking about it. im going to get my glock 19.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

croll326 said:


> the gun show SUCKED. tons of old gun and hardly any new handguns. big disappointment. i am tired of thinking about it. im going to get my glock 19.


Great! Then you can get busy thinking about what to buy next. :mrgreen:


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## zelch (Aug 18, 2013)

I've noticed that people bash the Sigma trigger and blame it for their inaccurate shooting,I own an Sw9ve and it is as accurate as any pistol in my vast collection of guns,the trigger on mine isn't gritty or extremely hard to pull,I've noticed that most of the people that complain about the trigger are either old men with arthritis of young girly men with no strength in their hands,the Sigma is reasonably priced where the glock is overpriced.The glock fanbois probably wear $300. nike's when a pair of $50.new balance are just as good,and always remember,glock pays internet trolls to get on gun forums and bash the Sigma because it is a comparable weapon to the glock,the rest of them are doing glocks bidding for free,if you've been brainwashed by the glock fanbois,just buy an S&W,M&P,it's a much better pistol than the glock.


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