# CC versus OC



## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

How many of you OC, and when you do, why do you OC instead of CC? This doesn't pertain those of you that OC because you don't have your CC permit.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

The other day I had truck problems so as I was working on it in a parking lot. I know my Glock was exposed often. I pulled my shirt down to conceal it once and heard a comment in the street that they saw it all ready. It was a couple guys in a car at the stop light. I ignored them but was not worried about it being exposed because if I wanted anyone to see it it probably would have been them. Kinda scuzzy looking dudes who may prey on people in distress.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

There are points on both sides.

Open carry advocates emphasize that regular-looking Joes and Janes carrying guns may help lessen the public opinion that only cops and criminals carry guns, thus re-normalizing the concept of gun carry, so I think some of it is political. But it can also act as a deterrent to crime, and an openly-carried pistol is certainly faster to draw than a concealed pistol.

Concealed carry advocates prefer discretion (the "gray man" concept) and the advantage of surprise. Some also point out the weapon-retention advantages of keeping the gun hidden.

I personally lean toward the latter point of view and carry concealed, unless I am out in the open desert shooting or camping. I prefer to go about my life quietly, without drawing a lot of attention to myself.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> There are points on both sides.
> 
> Open carry advocates emphasize that regular-looking Joes and Janes carrying guns may help lessen the public opinion that only cops and criminals carry guns, thus re-normalizing the concept of gun carry, so I think some of it is political. But it can also act as a deterrent to crime, and an openly-carried pistol is certainly faster to draw than a concealed pistol.
> 
> ...


This is the best answer I have seen on this subject. I don't want anybody to know I got a gun on me as it will work to my advantage I hope.:smt023


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

No OC for me, even though it is legal here in NC. I prefer the fewer people who know that I carry a gun the better.


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*Populace*

Baldy: Mike: Gentle Men; NC has OC and CC.
I too go about life quietly, and attention isn't something I need nor want.

A couple of weeks ago; my shooting partner ask me to go with him to CC deal. This isn't the first time that I had gone with a friend so most of the stuff was just redundant and reinforcement. "I am glad I did it again"

One of the Questions that I had.

I go to a place that doesn't want CC. "Now think about it."

NO to CC; so I open my jacket pull up shirt and expose. Mainly restaurant, grocery store, NOT ANYPLACE Government type, bank

Is this a stretch in or 500,000+ city populace or am I asking for trouble?

Open for suggestion and ideas


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

neophyte said:


> Baldy: Mike: Gentle Men; NC has OC and CC.
> I too go about life quietly, and attention isn't something I need nor want.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago; my shooting partner ask me to go with him to CC deal. This isn't the first time that I had gone with a friend so most of the stuff was just redundant and reinforcement. "I am glad I did it again"
> ...


Did it say "No concealed" or "No firearms"? If "No Concealed" I'd say _technically_ you are safe to OC in there. But you never know what can of worms you're opening. If "No Firearms", if you OC then you're setting up a call to the cops by the place and you're gonna get charged with criminal trespass. IMO, if a place has any anti-gun/anti-carry sign regardless if they don't want OC or "just" no CC, they don't deserve my business. I won't even go in.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

As indicated in previous posts, I believe in keeping both OC and CC RIGHTS alive in Arizona. Most of my carry is partialy concealed. I just don't go to great pains to cover it up. At the same time I don't flaunt it. If I lived in Chicago, NYC or similar and could get a permit my methods would probably change. I can't recall an incident where anyone was startled by my presence whether I was OC or CCing. 95% of the time a person can't say whether I am wearing a folding knife, cell phone or some kind of tool. All they see is a bit of leather below the edge of my shirt or jacket.

Craig, if a restaurant or store allowed OC but did not allow CC, whatever size the city, I would open up and let it show.

:smt1099


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

tnoisaw said:


> if I wanted anyone to see it it probably would have been them. Kinda scuzzy looking dudes who may prey on people in distress.





Mike Barham said:


> But it can also act as a deterrent to crime,


These go along with my personal reasons for OC. Mike, like you've said many times, 95% of the time, the mere presence of a gun is enough to stop an attacker. My thinking is if I'm somewhere that an attack is more likely than others, OC could go further to prevent any attack period as the gun is already displayed. And also, if I was attacked, an uncovered handgun is easier to draw than a covered one.

I don't like drawing negative attention to myself, but if people who noticed were under the impression that the only ones who OC are cops, they might think I'm an off-duty cop (which would be their own self-assurance). I don't think there would be many "OMG he's got a gun, call the cops!" issues as typically a criminal carrying a handgun would be trying to conceal it, not carrying it in plain sight.



TOF said:


> I would open up and let it show.


:mrgreen: I like your "shove it in their face" approach. I would probably do the same.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I've lived in an open carry state for thirty years and I've yet to see it. That doesn't mean it isn't done though but it is extremely rare. I'm not about to start a fad around here.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> These go along with my personal reasons for OC. Mike, like you've said many times, 95% of the time, the mere presence of a gun is enough to stop an attacker. My thinking is if I'm somewhere that an attack is more likely than others, OC could go further to prevent any attack period as the gun is already displayed. And also, if I was attacked, an uncovered handgun is easier to draw than a covered one.
> 
> I don't like drawing negative attention to myself, but if people who noticed were under the impression that the only ones who OC are cops, they might think I'm an off-duty cop (which would be their own self-assurance). I don't think there would be many "OMG he's got a gun, call the cops!" issues as typically a criminal carrying a handgun would be trying to conceal it, not carrying it in plain sight.
> 
> :mrgreen: I like your "shove it in their face" approach. I would probably do the same.


I failed to mention that I think some open-carry people do it to purposely draw attention to themselves. Me, I just want to blend with the crowd and go about my business. Then again, I don't think carrying a gun is "cool." I think it's a giant PIA.

Just bear in mind that when you carry openly, you truly represent ALL gun owners. Don't do or say _anything_ that will bring discredit on your fellow gun carriers. You'll be living on your toes.

Also be prepared for some extra encounters with the police, because I can promise you that _someone_ is going to call them when they see your openly-carried pistol. Being a "man with a gun" to the police is not exactly the safest thing in the world, so exercise extreme caution.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

I stopped open carrying around my town when it came to my attention that the neighborhood kids thought I was a cop. To them, anyone carrying a gun must be a cop. I was used to it in the armored car security uniform (which was very similar to the uniform worn by the local cops) because kids came to me all the time telling me they couldn't find their parents. But I wanted the neighborhood kids to find an actual cop if they needed help, so I no longer OC in the neighborhood. 

I still OC occassionally when I'm getting gas on the way home from work or something. But I don't do it often. I'd rather not let people know I have a gun on me for a whole laundry list of reasons.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Performing an act that is legal does not constitute an "In Your Face" approach. It is legal to drive my truck to the store for milk and bread. That can also be a PIA but I do it. That does not constitute getting in any bodies face. There are untold numbers of things we do that using the viewpoints listed above could be considered "In Your Face".

One thing I know is that if you do not excerise your rights you will lose them.

:smt1099


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

When deciding between eating someplace else versus not CCing (instead, OCing), I would designate that as an "in your face" type action. I'm not referring to "in your face" being obnoxious, inconsiderate, or obscene. I'm simply saying that it takes on the, "oh, well they said no CC, they didn't say no OC, so I'm gonna OC. They didn't say I couldn't do that!"

CC demands one to rise to higher standards...and I fully believe that OC demands one to rise to even higher standards. For any anti-gun person, a single person that OCs and does something they shouldn't casts a pretty permanent shadow over all the gunners out there. Our fraternity grand president said the same thing. "When you wear your letters, you alone are representing the entire grand chapter of our organization. If you're gonna drink, or do anything else that might cause you to do something you shouldn't and make our fraternity look bad, don't even think about wearing those letters."

It's a mental thing. Slide the holster on, take a deep breath, and vowel to myself and the rest of the gun community that I'm going to be a fully mature, upstanding citizen while I'm carrying, and hold myself to the highest standard possible. I'm mature and responsible enough to carry, so I need to act the part. It's my right to carry, but with rights come responsibilities. Like TOF said, you should exercise your rights in order to keep them, but exercise them in a way that demands respect, admiration, and compliance from the rest of the population.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2008)

I carry openly when I'm hunting, hiking or back country fishing and carrying a revolver. When ther norm is not to carry like when I am hiking on a well used trailI will carry concealed. In public I always carry concealed. I have drunk the coolaide of the concealed means just that group. I have to agree with Mike that the last thing I want is attention when I'm in the public and carrying a gun. Just because you may have the right to open carry in public doesn't mean you always will if you go scaring the soccor moms who are out at the maull with the kids.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I agree with you...hell, carrying a shotgun around in the mall is legal, but it would caues a bit of unrest. There's no way I'd OC somewhere I thought someone might freak out. But out in the woods, or anywhere that is more "outdoorsy" would be fine.


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## XD_Hokie (Dec 29, 2007)

In Virginia it is illegal to CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol, today. You must OC to be legal, and they can ask you to leave or they can post no gun signs. The Virginia Citizens Defense League (www.vcdl.org) regularly has get togethers to OC in restaurants to, as Mike stated, reinforce the right we have and try to make it more of regular Joe who has a gun rather than just police and BGs.

A bill just passed the state House and Senate by good margins today in Virginia to repeal this law and is on the way to the governor. Funny how the local news just reported it and showed all the alcohol behind the bars in restaurants as they reported the story in an ominous tone, even though if the law is repealed and you can CC in the future, you cannot drink. Also, either they chose to report the governors response in the negative or he made it that way, but according to the local TV news he said, " He would have to review the details of the wording of the bill before deciding whether to veto it or not." Note, he is not going to review it to see if he will sign it. Funny how those biases come out.

I read a review on the USCCA web page of the recent shooting at the town council meeting outside of St Louis, MO, and a good point was made for concealed carry. The BG shot/killed the uniformed officer visibly armed outside the building, and then took the officer's gun and went inside to the council meeting and shot/killed the uniformed officer visibly armed inside. Once all the visibly armed individuals were targeted and out of the way, he proceeded to shoot the unarmed until finally shot by arriving officers I believe. The point being that if you OC you become one of the first targets if the BG decides to go through with is deed once he sees your OC firearm. So the CC method makes you the "gray man" as Mike noted, and may give you the chance to find cover and place some rounds on target before becoming a target yourself.


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## Thunderhawk (Jun 28, 2006)

I will OC around my property, out in the desert, or in the mountains. But around town it's not worth the obvious hassle it'll cause. Plus I too am of the opinion that alot of OC'ers are just playing John Wayne.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Thunderhawk said:


> Plus I too am of the opinion that alot of OC'ers are just playing John Wayne.


Agreed...while that doesn't apply to me, a lot of people that OC probably OC because they want the image of a badass. As far as I'm concerned, I know I've got a gun tucked away, and that's all that matters. But I think there are various times that OC would be perfectly acceptable.


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