# Beyond Beautiful



## js (Jun 29, 2006)

> * NGC 602 and Beyond* * Credit: * NASA, ESA, and the Hubble Heritage Team (STScI / AURA) - ESA/Hubble Collaboration *
> 
> Explanation: * Near the outskirts of the Small Magellanic Cloud, a satellite galaxy some 200 thousand light-years distant, lies 5 million year young star cluster NGC 602. Surrounded by natal gas and dust, NGC 602 is featured in this stunning Hubble image of the region. Fantastic ridges and swept back shapes strongly suggest that energetic radiation and shock waves from NGC 602's massive young stars have eroded the dusty material and triggered a progression of star formation moving away from the cluster's center. At the estimated distance of the Small Magellanic Cloud, the picture spans about 200 light-years, but a tantalizing assortment of background galaxies are also visible in the sharp Hubble view. The background galaxies are hundreds of millions of light-years or more beyond NGC 602.


I'm just speechless when viewing images like this. I'm pretty damn lucky to be able to view the universe on a regular basis at the observatory that I work at. There is a real sense of awe when looking at something a few thousand or even millions of light years away. It really puts things in perspective. Be sure to really check out the image, there are hundreds of little galaxies in the background...millions and millions of light years away.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Beautiful pic. I wish I could work at an observatory


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

You must have one very cool job there JS. That is really neat.


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## Flashbang (Sep 11, 2006)

I see a T-Rex skull in there!!! ( Ah... I always see images in clouds. ) You know, it wasn't very long ago that we didn't even have good pictures of the planets and now this... Sometimes I think it's the worst of times, sometimes the best of times.....


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

And you do this for a living? Wow!


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

And the "scientists" insist we are alone?????????:watching:


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Actually, I think most scientists agree that it is likely there is life SOMEWHERE else. They just look at the UFO guys as nuts.

The problem is some of the people who take the bible so literraly that they can't accept the idea that we have company.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore it


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## falshman70 (Jul 13, 2006)

That is an awesome pic...............but seeing you posted, I was hoping for Kate Beckinsale.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> Actually, I think most scientists agree that it is likely there is life SOMEWHERE else. They just look at the UFO guys as nuts.
> 
> The problem is some of the people who take the bible so literraly that they can't accept the idea that we have company.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore it


I don't recall anything in the bible that would confirm nor deny extraterrestrial life. I will ask one of my brothers who is a pastor on his opinion.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

tnoisaw said:


> I don't recall anything in the bible that would confirm nor deny extraterrestrial life. I will ask one of my brothers who is a pastor on his opinion.


That may be so, but I have heard it before - because Jesus came to "us" is their argument. Or, something like that. To be honest, I've never paid much attention to their arguments... I've just heard it several times over the years...

Whether the bible denies it or not - doesn't necessarily make it so. I don't want to argue w/ anyone about the religious beliefs, though, nor insult anyone's view.


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

tnoisaw said:


> And you do this for a living? Wow!


It's the "other thing" that I do. I'm a full time professional musician and work part time at a local college observatory with various observatory duties...telescope operator, run the observatory during public viewing nights, help in some research projects, etc.

It's a great life!


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

js said:


> It's the "other thing" that I do. I'm a full time professional musician and work part time at a local college observatory with various observatory duties...telescope operator, run the observatory during public viewing nights, help in some research projects, etc.
> 
> It's a great life!


You play music and make money doing it and look at the stars. Dude, where do I sign up? What instrument do you play?


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> That may be so, but I have heard it before - because Jesus came to "us" is their argument. Or, something like that. To be honest, I've never paid much attention to their arguments... I've just heard it several times over the years...
> 
> Whether the bible denies it or not - doesn't necessarily make it so. I don't want to argue w/ anyone about the religious beliefs, though, nor insult anyone's view.


Okay, I will refrain from any religion discussions. Not that I want to. :mrgreen:


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> Actually, I think most scientists agree that it is likely there is life SOMEWHERE else. They just look at the UFO guys as nuts.
> 
> The problem is some of the people who take the bible so literraly that they can't accept the idea that we have company.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore it


Intelligent life would avoid earth because the liberals would have to dumb them down


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

tony pasley said:


> Intelligent life would avoid earth because the liberals would have to dumb them down


 :smt023


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

tnoisaw said:


> You play music and make money doing it and look at the stars. Dude, where do I sign up? What instrument do you play?


I teach guitar for a living. I did the touring thing when I was younger...played up and down the east coast for about 5 years. I've been teaching guitar for last 15 years. I average around 50+ students a week. I do the astronomy thing on the side. I'd love to go back to school and get my masters degree in Astronomy, but I just don't have the time or money to do it at this time. To work at the obsevatory I did have to back to school for Astronomy, just didn't have to get a masters to do what I do.

Astronomy and Music have always been my life, I'm really lucky to be able to make a living doing what I've always loved to do. I never take it for granted.


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## stupidman (Jun 13, 2006)

Man, thanks for the beautiful picture. Its always amazing to think about how vast and beautiful the univers is. As vast as it is, it is sad to say that I doubt you will ever find life anywhere else. The conditions required for any kind of life to exist is extremely EXTREMELY rare. I would be surprised if we ever find the conditions anywhere else in the universe for even the simplest form of life to exist. Even if there is life somewhere out there it is extremely unlikely that they will ever find us or we will ever find them. It's kind of a bummer.



Shipwreck said:


> I don't want to argue w/ anyone about the religious beliefs, though, nor insult anyone's view.


C'mon shipwreck, you need to start a religion section on this forum. Then you can waste all your time trying to moderate all the pointless bickering between people of belief and not-belief. I for one enjoy having my beliefs insulted from time to time. It makes me smile.

Seriously though, I can't imagine what kind of headaches you would get if you let people debate their beliefs here. I've posted a little in the religion section on other gun forums but now I really don't see the point in discussing such matters at a forum for guns. Now I go to the religious and apologetics forums for such conversations. I find that people at the gun forms know about guns and the people at religious forms know about religion. Therefore, the conversations are much more fulfilling at the religion forms. Go figure.


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

stupidman said:


> Man, thanks for the beautiful picture. Its always amazing to think about how vast and beautiful the univers is. As vast as it is, it is sad to say that I doubt you will ever find life anywhere else. The conditions required for any kind of life to exist is extremely EXTREMELY rare. I would be surprised if we ever find the conditions anywhere else in the universe for even the simplest form of life to exist. Even if there is life somewhere out there it is extremely unlikely that they will ever find us or we will ever find them. It's kind of a bummer.


I'll quote a very good friend of mine who a professional astronomer...

"We are but one planet around one star, within a galaxy of 400 billion stars, within a universe of over 400 billion galaxies..."

The universe is teaming with life... it's just "far, far away". It's getting closer though... There is a very real possiblity of some form of life on one of the moons of Jupiter... Europa. Europa has an ocean under it's ice layered surface. This has already been proven because of the surface features changing due the ice melting and then re-freezing...where there is water, there is life. Also, one of the moons of Saturn...Titan has an atmoshere, made up mostly of carbon. Which just so happens what we are made of. 

May not be little green men out there, but another forms of life. Remember, before humans walked the earth... other life in other forms where here first.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

stupidman said:


> C'mon shipwreck, you need to start a religion section on this forum. Then you can waste all your time trying to moderate all the pointless bickering between people of belief and not-belief. I for one enjoy having my beliefs insulted from time to time. It makes me smile.


I don't think there will ever be a religious section to this site. This is a gun website. I don't really understand the point of that section on Glocktalk. But the conversations in that section are maddening, most of the time.

As U saud - there are other websites for that type of discussion....


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> I don't think there will ever be a religious section to this site. This is a gun website. I don't really understand the point of that section on Glocktalk. But the conversations in that section are maddening, most of the time.
> 
> As U saud - there are other websites for that type of discussion....


Though I don't mind discussion religion and my Christianity I use to post quit often in Glocktalk's religion area. I got very frustrated and stopped because I felt their were just trolls there to argue anything anti-Christian. One guy had hundreds of posts but 99%+ in the religion section and only a handful in any relationship to guns.

I can certainly understand why you would not want to start that here.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

stupidman said:


> ... As vast as it is, it is sad to say that I doubt you will ever find life anywhere else. The conditions required for any kind of life to exist is extremely EXTREMELY rare. I would be surprised if we ever find the conditions anywhere else in the universe for even the simplest form of life to exist. Even if there is life somewhere out there it is extremely unlikely that they will ever find us or we will ever find them. It's kind of a bummer.


I'm going to play devils advocate here. Who is to say that life can not happen in other means besides what we have on earth. Some plants in the ocean that don't get light (Photosynthesis) to live off of but use hydrogen sulfide from the deep ocean vents to get their nutrients. Why can't other planets et use this process or something similar?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

With the sheer billions upon billions of stars in the over a billion galaxies - ain't no way we are alone. Time frames may have life before or after us. But, we CANNOT be it. I don't believe that and never will.


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## stupidman (Jun 13, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> I don't think there will ever be a religious section to this site. This is a gun website. I don't really understand the point of that section on Glocktalk. But the conversations in that section are maddening, most of the time.
> 
> As U saud - there are other websites for that type of discussion....


That section of Glocktalk has me convinced that glockers are hard-headed, intolerant and heartless people. Most of the non-Christians there do nothing but troll and spew their hate for Christianity. Likewise some of the Christians their don't seem to be the nicest people either.


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## stupidman (Jun 13, 2006)

I remember a few years back, reading a lot of Carl Sagan's work thinking how wonderful it would be to find life elsewhere in the universe. But since then I've read a lot of material showing how improbable it is that life exists anywhere else. I think it's possible that may be a very simple form of life could exist elsewhere, but the odds of finding it are next to 0. I am not an astronomer and I will admit that I am no authority on the subject but from everything I've gathered over the years of reading a wide variety of authors on the sciences lead me to this conclusion.

This is a short write up from Ernst Mayr. Mayr is a well respected evolutionary biologist. In this article he's mostly criticizing the SETI program, but he explains a little bit why there's not a good chance of finding life elsewhere.

http://www.planetary.org/explore/topics/search_for_life/seti/mayr.html

Creationist such as Dr. Hugh Ross do a fabulous job of explaining the probability of life forming elsewhere in the universe. The purpose of this page is not so much to disprove the existence of extraterrestrial life that to show how unique and "finely tune" the earth is for supporting life. It is not my intention to get into a religious discussion here. So I apologize if linking to a religious site is a no-no. In this situation it is the best link I can find to get my point across.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/probabilitieslife.html



tnoisaw said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate here. Who is to say that life can not happen in other means besides what we have on earth. Some plants in the ocean that don't get light (Photosynthesis) to live off of but use hydrogen sulfide from the deep ocean vents to get their nutrients. Why can't other planets et use this process or something similar?


I thought this might come up. I think you're thinking of animals like the giant tubeworm. 
http://www.extremescience.com/deepcreat5.htm 
But the probability of organisms such as this developing are just as slim as organisms that survive in conditions similar to our own.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Without getting into a religion discussion I’ve stated before on this forum that I am a born-again Christian (since 1972). But I understand that there are so many various opinions on this subject and I try not to judge others for their beliefs- with the exception of the screwed up religion of Islam.

For me, my beliefs, I think we’re the only ones but hey, that’s me. Until, like Thomas, I see the wounds in the hands, ie. ships from outer space or an alien, then I will be skeptical.


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

I know I'll catch some flak for this, but, here goes:

The Christian view of life in outer space from the Biblical standpoint is that yes, there is life out there. But, that life is spiritual/angelic, not human life as known on Earth. And in angelic appearences in Scripture, the angels have taken the form of men.

That said, life, as mankind, would not exist according to Christian teaching. Scripture teaches that ONCE Christ died for the sins of lost mankind.

Didn't mean to get on my soapbox, but felt compelled to respond.

Bob Wright


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## stupidman (Jun 13, 2006)

tnoisaw said:


> Without getting into a religion discussion I've stated before on this forum that I am a born-again Christian (since 1972). But I understand that there are so many various opinions on this subject and I try not to judge others for their beliefs- with the exception of the screwed up religion of Islam.
> 
> For me, my beliefs, I think we're the only ones but hey, that's me. Until, like Thomas, I see the wounds in the hands, ie. ships from outer space or an alien, then I will be skeptical.


I don't think that's a bad way to look at it. I think a healthy skepticism is a good thing. We should put everything to the test and hold on to that which is good. For us as Christians and for people of other faiths, I think this is a simple principle that can save everyone a lot of headaches.

Just because it's unlikely we will find aliens anywhere doesn't mean we should stop looking. If not for anything else, simply because of the other scientific discoveries we might find along the way.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Bob Wright said:


> I know I'll catch some flak for this, but, here goes:
> 
> The Christian view of life in outer space from the Biblical standpoint is that yes, there is life out there. But, that life is spiritual/angelic, not human life as known on Earth. And in angelic appearences in Scripture, the angels have taken the form of men.
> 
> ...


No flak from me. Well said.



stupidman said:


> I don't think that's a bad way to look at it. I think a healthy skepticism is a good thing. We should put everything to the test and hold on to that which is good. For us as Christians and for people of other faiths, I think this is a simple principle that can save everyone a lot of headaches.
> 
> Just because it's unlikely we will find aliens anywhere doesn't mean we should stop looking. If not for anything else, simply because of the other scientific discoveries we might find along the way.


Well, I must confess. I have found an alien. I divorced her about ten years ago. I'm lucky I got out when I did because she was sucking the life out of me.


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

tnoisaw said:


> Well, I must confess. I have found an alien. I divorced her about ten years ago. I'm lucky I got out when I did because she was sucking the life out of me.


LOL, I *was* married to her twin sister. :smt082


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## Hevchev50 (Dec 24, 2006)

As far as extra-terrestial life goes, I believe in the law of averages. With as many as the billions of star systems out there, there must be some(if not many) planets where their distance from their sun is just right along with the proper natural elements to support life. I'm just speculating here, but there could be planets that are experiencing their "dawn of life" with simple life forms, or others where the equivelant of the dinosaurs that once roamed our planet are prospering on another. Then there could be advanced civilizations thousands of years ahead of us in technology(even though this is the most common theme in SciFi when dealing with alien life). The Space Ship visitation claims made over the many years I have to disagree with though. As stated in the first post, these systems are hundreds of thousands of light years away, and I would think the most advanced spacecraft that could be devised on another planet still would not have the power capable to propel them fast enough to make the trip to earth feasible. Even if they could reach us in 20 years, how many skilled volunteers would be willing to leave there families and loved ones to go out into the cold vastness of space for even that long to check out our planet which for all intents and purposes is not on the same advanced level as theirs and would have nothing they want or need?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, it is interesting to see ancient drawings of UFOs and such (I think I saw a tv documentary on this a while back). Makes ya wonder...


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## jeepgirl (Jan 17, 2007)

I have two really good ones I saved when I saw them on my homepage news area--


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