# Accurate .22 Polymer Frame



## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

First pistol for a target shooting newb but I'd prefer a light, comfortable, poly frame job, something like a S&W M&P Compact. The only conventional beginners target pistol that appeals is the Beretta 87, I like a fairly upright grip. The Walther P22Q Target also looks good but no way am I buying a gun made out of monkey metal. My licence only allows one gun for the first year so getting it right first go is very important.

So how accurate are the best poly framed 22's, Beretta say that their 87 will shoot cloverleafs out to 30 yards and more. That's better than I can shoot but a poly capable of shooting somewhere near would be good. Thanks and cheers


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I've been hearing and reading good things about the new Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory pistol.
Start here: SW22 Victory .22 LR - Smith & Wesson

Truth: I've never used the S&W, and I don't shoot a .22 pistol at all.

Were you not to want a polymer-frame pistol, I'd suggest an old-fashion, all-metal Ruger Mark III. I've used one of those.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Thanks Steve but at present the traditional type US guns like the Ruger Marks, Victory, Buck Mark and so on are not what I'm looking for. The Ruger SR22 with a 4.5" barrel may shoot good enough but I don't know and haven't even handled one.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

My best .22 pistol is a CZ-75B with the Kadet .22 conversion kit. I suppose if you require a polymer frame, you could get one of their newer polymer variations of the CZ-75, and add the Kadet kit. I imagine that the conversion will still work on them. Mine is capable of ~2 inch groups at 25 yards, although I rarely shoot it that well, any more.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

To be sure there is a distinct difference between a Beretta 87 and an 87T.

Both are excellent shooters but the 87T is definitely class. You will not go wrong with this pistol. I added a dot scope and target grips to mine and it is a tack shooter.

You may find a used Beretta 87-Long Barrel or even an older 89 but then we're talking metal. [the 87T replaced the 89]

I have heard good about the Beretta Neos as well as the Victory. If you need the polymer, you should also consider a Ruger 45/22. 
You get the same superb upper of a Mark II,III [yes, get the target or Government Barrel], with a more standard frame.

DO AVOID the Sig Mosquito, It took a lot of work to get mine working reliably.

Cudos on the CZ Kadet too. You can develop a healthy appetite for the bigger brothers when your year is up.

I suppose you can buy a P07 and get the .22 Kadet kit for it as you still only have 1 gun.


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Hello and Welcome from AZ.

You have gotten some very good tips. I just have not liked the polymer guns I have tried.
Why does it need to be polymer?

My favorite 22 is a single six. Never had a jam.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Thanks all for your advice, the Ruger 22/45 Lite is unfortunately heavier than the 87T , have only just found the Buck Mark Lite which is a bit lighter so that is of interest. Out of left field is the discontinued S&W 422 which at 27.1 oz is lighter than just about all the non polymer guns but I'm not sure if the underslung barrel setup would suit me and how accurate it is but otherwise it looks to be very suitable although I prefer new.

As far as the polymer gun preference goes, tactical looks, less weight, comfort and no extremely sloped grips like the Ruger Marks.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Are able to Conceal carry this 22?


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

pic said:


> Are able to Conceal carry this 22?


Nope, strictly club range events only.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If the 22 target is strictly for range events , why is the weight of the target 22 so important?

I've never shot in any range events myself. 

Would the events be stationary or is mobility involved? 

Thank you, and good luck with your purchase 
:snipe:


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

I can hold a light gun steadier than a heavy one, plus a light gun has advantages where movement is involved between shots. Hope to graduate to activity type events which involve run and gun. So accuracy is not everything but it is important.











Pistol and Boo, bow wow.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Boo said:


> I can hold a light gun steadier than a heavy one...


In my own experience, the steadiest hold is achieved with a slightly-muzzle-heavy pistol.
Further, a heavier pistol helps to absorb recoil forces (even in a .22), which allows quicker recovery from shot to shot. Thus, your shooting would be more accurate, and movement from one target to another would become easier, quicker, and steadier.

Is there some neuropathy in your hand, or some sort of muscle difficulty?
If there isn't, you can pretty easily condition yourself to steadily support a "full-weight" pistol.
One thing that will help is a one-hand-size, five-pound (2.25 kilo) "dumbbell." Lift it from slack-at-your-side into arm-extended shooting position, repeating this until you are almost tired. Then do it just once more, and then quit for the day.
Do this every day, until lifting and holding a two- or three-pound pistol feels comfortable. (And do it with each hand!)

Another gimmick which will help you is a grip-improvement exerciser of the kind that permits each separate finger to be exercised at will.
You squeeze the exerciser with the lower three fingers and hold that grip tight and steady, while at the same time separately squeezing-and-releasing just your index (trigger) finger.
The object is to be able to press a trigger with your index finger, without changing the grip pressure of the three lower fingers and the thumb.
This is called "isolation," and it is the fundamental necessity for trigger control.
Do this exercise, too, until your fingers just begin to feel tired, and then do it one more time, and then quit for the day. (Right hand, and left hand too.)

*A Side Issue:* _Any_ properly manufactured pistol you can buy will necessarily be more inherently accurate than you are. It is only when one participates in the esoteric skill of NRA- or Olympic-style bullseye shooting that the shooter needs a pistol of high accuracy.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Thanks for the tips Steve, they make a lot of sense.

I am normally right handed but am steadier with the left, as are a few shooters I've discovered. So I shoot with the left. Story is that originally I bought a plastic water pistol just to familarise myself with the feel of a hand gun. Then as part of the licencing process I did some range shoots using various loan guns, none of which I particularly liked. With the Beretta modeled light water pistol I can hold and 'fire' it pretty well rock steady and it feels good in the hand, true story


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Are you right or left eye dominate ?

Possibly you're left eye dominate . Check it out. 

Try "you tube" as a source of information to determine your dominate eye


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Definately right eye dominant, bringing the left arm across the body to align with the right eye does not seem to be a problem.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Boo*, are you shooting one-handed? Or with two hands?
In the US, "action shooting" and "practical shooting" is almost entirely done using two hands on the gun.

Are you familiar with the "isosceles stance" and the "Weaver stance"? (Actually, it's the "_modified_ Weaver stance.")
Do you know why each one is used (or not)?

*New Subject:*
In Oz, are there still gun shops? And if there are, can you actually fondle a pistol in one, before you have to buy it?
Or do you have to buy your pistol "sight unseen"?
And have you actually handled a real Beretta 87, or only that water-pistol version?
For that matter, which real pistols have you actually fired shots through?


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Target is one handed which is all I've done so far. Guns tried? Ruger Mk2, a 1911 in .22 which felt like it had been made out of a solid chunk of steel, Walther target pistol with the mag in front of the trigger, old Russian Margolin, that's about it. Most of our gun shops do not carry many hand guns which is why I'm doing as much prior research as possible before doing say a two hour drive to look and fondle err handle any. Incidentially gun ownership is booming in AU despite the tough licencing and use restrictions, anti gun zealots are not happy lol.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I assume that it's just about impossible to find an experienced pistol-shooting coach, down there in Oz. Is that true?
Because, to me, it seems as if what you really need is coaching from an experienced shooter.

So here's a suggestion: Start by figuring out exactly what kind of pistol shooting you want to do.
There's "action shooting," "practical shooting," bowling-pin shooting, silhouette (metal "animals") shooting, and bullseye-target shooting, to name most of 'em.
The first three will require speed and pretty good accuracy in equal measure, and are normally done with two hands on the gun. The last one is a one-hand-only, extreme accuracy proposition in which time is a minor or non-existent factor. And the next-to-last sport is highly specialized, long-range pistol shooting, and mostly it's done in any way or style that you find comfortable.
Once you know which sport you want to try, you need to find other people who do it too. That's how you find the necessary coaching.

Of the guns that you've tried, the Walther and the Margolin are for bullseye-target, high-precision, one-handed shooting.
The big, heavy 1911 is good preparation for two-handed action, practical, or bowling-pin shooting.
The Ruger Mk2 is sort of halfway between, accurate enough for beginning bullseye shooters and for silhouette shooting, but not particularly well suited for action, practical, and pin-shooting games.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve, Good information,IMO 

Boo, I also admire your willingness to listen. IMO, Very good. :smt023


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

We are very much restricted as to what we can do at the start and at this stage I'm not sure how far I want to go as far as trying different sorts of shooting. My local club does ISSF target, 25 and 50 meters, which is what I'll start with and go from there. I've located a S&W 422 for sale about an hour away so I'm going to see if I can put some rounds through that, with the 'one gun in the first year' restriction the main requirement for me is to find something that I'm comfortable with and just have fun. Of the guns tried only the Margolin appealed at all, if I had to use one of the others I doubt if I'd bother.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

It may take a whole year to realize if you're comfortable with your choice. 

Pick a reliable, quality piece with great reviews is a good start. Once again , happy searching.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Hey Boo, Australia is just beginning their spring weather???


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

To be completely honest, *Boo*, shooting one-handed (or even two-handed) at 25 and 50 meters is probably the most difficult and frustrating way of beginning any pistol shooting game.
When you're new to the pistol, 25 meters seems an awfully long way away. And, as you'll soon see, it really is.

Even if your goal is one-handed, accurate, bullseye shooting at 25 and 50 meters, I strongly suggest that you find a way to _start at only three or seven meters_. See if the shooting club you'll be using will permit a beginner to do that.
The object is for the beginner to achieve success right away, rather than to achieve only discouragement as he learns how difficult handgun shooting really is.

You start with the target very close up, as you learn grip, sight-picture, and trigger control. Thus, all of your very first shots will be nicely centered, and all of your beginner's errors will be obvious and easy to correct.
As you achieve success, you move further away from the target (or move the target further from you).
It's a slow process, I admit, but it will be much more enjoyable and rewarding to do it that way, than it would be trying to start out at the longer distances.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Yep, spring is springing, it's raining like a bugger and the farmers are happy 

Thanks again for the advice Steve, as part of the licencing procedure I had no option but to do competition shoots under supervision which involved 25 and 50 meters, no problem really, I thought just hitting the target at 50 was pretty good. The way I look at it is if the gun is nice to shoot and reasonably accurate then I'm going to enjoy and if I enjoy then the points you have mentioned can be addressed in due course.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

After several false starts it looks like the Walther PPQ 5" barrel will get my $. It's not made of pot metal (like the P22) as I first thought and from all reports is very reliable and trouble free. Have not handled one yet but it gets good reports on that important aspect too, as far as accuracy goes one owner compares it favourably with his Ruger III which is a good recommendation. And the weight is 567g/20oz so this gun satisfies all my criteria and, I'm surprised, is the only one that does. It's a bit of a crossover between an American style short barrel plinker and the more serious type all metal longer barrel guns.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Boo said:


> After several false starts it looks like the Walther PPQ 5" barrel will get my $. It's not made of pot metal (like the P22) as I first thought and from all reports is very reliable and trouble free. Have not handled one yet but it gets good reports on that important aspect too, as far as accuracy goes one owner compares it favourably with his Ruger III which is a good recommendation. And the weight is 567g/20oz so this gun satisfies all my criteria and, I'm surprised, is the only one that does. It's a bit of a crossover between an American style short barrel plinker and the more serious type all metal longer barrel guns.


congrats, let us know how well it shoots, thanks, pic

:smt1099


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Trying to be sensible the Beretta 87 Target and Hammerli X-esse have been included with the PPQ in the short list. While the two intruders will be a bit more accurate the 87 seems to have a unfixable bad stock trigger, the X-esse has occasional operating problems while the PPQ seems almost, err, bullet proof. Any experience with the intruders welcome, seeing the final choice has to be my only gun for a year the choice is obviously important.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Ended up putting a deposit down on a Buck Mark Lite URX 5.5" barrel, the final short list also included the Beretta 87 Target and Walther PPQ. Liked them all so in the end the Browning won on practicality. Should have it in a couple of weeks or so, link to Browning Current Production


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

And have ordered a Tandemkross trigger for 25 and 50 meter target shooting duties. The good thing about buying a US pistol is the availability of improvements for whatever application you have in mind.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

Many are quite happy with their Buck Marks. Enjoy yours Boo.

I have read on the Beretta forum that the older 89 adjustable trigger parts can be put into an 87T. Not too complex a process.
This may be something to consider if you want one later.

Did you get a chance to check out the latest Ruger MK IV Hunter? There is a Target model too but I like the sights on the Hunter.


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## Boo (Sep 14, 2016)

Have shot a Ruger Mark and did not like the grip angle so the Mk IV never made the short list. Like the Ruger action but if it does not feel natural in the hand then...........


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