# Guide rod replacement



## Survivor (Oct 30, 2011)

Is it worth the extra money to replace the factory guide rod/spring assembly with tungsten or would stainless steel be sufficient? The gun in question is a G19 gen3.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

If you're worried primarily about breakage during use, then no to both. I've shot Glocks for 20+ years now, and have never broken, or SEEN a broken factory Recoil Spring Assembly. I've seen a few that were chipped on the flat end, but this is usually a result of folks not making sure the RSA is fully seated into the notch on the barrel during reassembly. Most folks do it correctly when they are disassembling the pistol for cleaning or lubrication, but once in awhile they will just take the slide off to check something, and then immediately put it right back on. When you remove the slide, the RSA is slightly (maybe half-way?) out of the groove, and if you don't press it all the way down to re-seat it before reassembly, sometimes it will snag on another part during assembly and the wide end will get chipped.

If you just want the best for absolute long-term durability, or a little bit more weight out front for reduction of muzzle flip, then either will do; personally, I can't see how a metal rod could get broken in normal use where a plastic part is standard, so either metal one should last forever. As I carry my Glocks occasionally, I don't want anything that increases their weight, so I just leave the stock RSA in place. I did put one spare G17- and G19-size RSA in my range bag a few years ago in case one got broken/damaged during practice/training/competition, but they've never been out of their Zip-lock bags.

The best reason I've seen to go to a metal rod, is to allow easy replacement of the spring with different weights, to modify the recoil characteristics of the pistol. This is usually done by high-level competition shooters who want to "tune" their pistol to use a very lightly-loaded handloaded cartridge, to absolutely minimize the effects of recoil and muzzle flip. For average folks shooting factory-loaded ammunition, there is no real advantage to doing this, and it increases the possibility of using a too-light or too-heavy spring, which can cause the pistol to beat itself to death, or screw-up Glock's legendary reliability.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Survivor said:


> Is it worth the extra money to replace the factory guide rod/spring assembly with tungsten or would stainless steel be sufficient? The gun in question is a G19 gen3.


It's been my, almost, universal experience that the typical Glock owner is completely oblivious to the adverse effects of Glock's, at least, currently recognized problems with polymer frame vibration. One factory engineer has verified that this vibration does, in fact, occur; and, while diagnosing attached tactical light problems for the Hasbrouck Heights, NJ Police Department, coined the phrase, 'polymer frame vibration'.

This amused me because as long as three years before the factory finally made this admission I was, already, complaining about it on Glock Talk, and either amusing or enraging a lot of incredulous, 'Glockaholics'. Polymers frame vibration is most noticeable and has the greatest adverse effect on a Glock pistol between the slide's breechface and muzzle. It is, also, exacerbated by even the slightest misalignment that might occur anywhere along the trigger bar.

(Like past problems Glock, GmbH has had with misshapen TB, 'bird's heads'; or misaligned striker safety cams, or even loading a Glock pistol to full magazine capacity + 1 and, thereby, applying additional (and unnecessary) pressure to the underside of the slide - Sometimes you can get away with doing this; and other times your slide is going to hang up.)

I'm going to agree with the poster above, and say that Glock's polymer (or the new reinforced polymer) guide rods seldom break; however, rod end breakage is NOT a principal reason for changing to a metal guide rod. Excessive front end frame/dust cover vibration is! If you're good enough with a Glock then front sight recapture during rapid fire events is, also, another worthwhile reason to switch to a metal rod.

During the past decade (and all the frigg 'in Glock problems that I've had to sort my way through) I've owned and used a lot of different metal guide rods. Some worked better than others. Tungsten* is a complete waste of money; the added weight isn't going to do anything constructive for you; and tungsten* wears out very quickly (like inside 1 or 2 years of only moderate use). Most of the stainless steel rods either have a small screw in the muzzle-end, or are of a slightly smaller diameter and evidence a tendency to ever-so-slightly bind and, thus, perceptibly slow down slide movement. (If you aren't really tuned to your Glock then you won't even notice; but it's there.)

I've lost several of those little metal end screws, tried using Loctite to hold them in place; and, while I no longer lost the screw, I lost the ability to easily change recoil springs, instead. So what is the best metal recoil guide rod for a Glock? There are two. One is made by Wolff Gunsprings. It is a nice 'n thick, NP3 coated, non-captured and hardened, carbon steel rod. This Wolff rod allows me to easily switch springs in order to accomodate both lightly recoiling, target quality; and heavy recoiling, self-defense ammunition. I've got these Wolff Gunsprings metal rods in all of my 3rd generation Glock pistols.

Have I noticed a significant improvement in performance while using Wolff's metal rods? Well, the annoying failures to return to battery problems with both of my, then, brand new G-21's dropped from a high of 8 to 10 percent of every 100 rounds fired all the way down to only 2 to 3 percent; and, after I installed Glock's new (problem solving) #4256-1 trigger bars, the failure to RTB problems completely disappeared; (but NOT the full magazine +1 loading problems)! Otherwise, one G-21 pistol's performance has remained flawless for the past 25 to 28 THOUSAND fired rounds; and its twin G-21 pistol has done exactly the same thing for the past 12 to 15 THOUSAND fired rounds!

It takes me, about, 7 or 8 seconds to place up to 13 230 grain, 'pills' into a 7 inch circle at 16 yards; so front sight recapture has been working very well for me. I think the Wolff rods and the significant reduction in, both, slide and front end vibration have a lot to do with this sort of excellent performance! You've asked whether or not, '_It's worth the money_'? The point I would make is that if you're a, 'serious pistolero' then you can't afford to be without the best metal rod you can find inside your Glock.

If, however, you're a typically skilled pistol owner and you're not firing more than 10 -12 thousand rounds each year, well, it may not be worth your while to change out the rods. The cheap, but admittedly largely serviceable, factory polymer/reinforced polymer rods the factory supplies should be sufficient for your use. (Remember, 'what's his name' and the 10,000 round G-19, 'torture test'? I think the factory polymer rod finally lost its tip, somewhere, while the last several magazines were being fired. That breakage of a Glock plastic rod sounds about right to me.)

If you're interested, here, take your pick. Either way you can't go wrong:

Springs for GLOCK ® Semi-Auto Pistols

Gen 3 (and prior) Uncaptured Hardened Steel Guide Rods Gen 3 (and prior) Uncaptured Hardened Steel Guide Rods [] - $15.95 : Jager Products, Inc

NOTE: Tungsten* I'm sorry, and I apologize. I meant to say *titanium*.


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## Survivor (Oct 30, 2011)

Thank you both for two very informative responses. My short term experience with Glocks is probably very apparent in my post. I always thought it very strange to hear people say that the first thing they planned to do after purchasing a handgun (brand not relevant) would be to buy replacement parts for it. In a few cases they would make changes to their gun even before firing it for the first time. I always felt that any firearm should be ready to go and perform well right out of the box, so to speak. If not, then I would consider buying something else.
I can see myself shooting hundreds of rounds annually, but certainly not thousands. I'm not interested in competing with any of my firearms, mainly due to cost. I was also curious as to whether or not a different guide rod would make a noticeable difference in my shooting results. You both have answered that question without me having to ask it. From what I understand from your posts, I probably won't need to replace my factory rod unless it eventually fails over time. When (IF) that time comes, I would probably just replace it with another factory component.
Again, thank you both for very valuable information.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Survivor:


> " One is made by Wolff Gunsprings. It is a nice 'n thick, NP3 coated, non-captured and hardened, carbon steel rod. This Wolff rod allows me to easily switch springs in order to accomodate both lightly recoiling, target quality; and heavy recoiling, self-defense ammunition."


I'll second that, I have replaced all of the "captive" guide rod assemblies on any pistol that has them with the "Wolff Gunsprings" units. I never liked the idea of plastic guide rods or guide rod assemblies. Brassstacker Industries makes a real nice unit out of stainless steel but has the screw on cap. It is somewhat difficult to assemble when you are trying to compress the spring and screw on the cap, I had to make a tool that relieves the tension on the spring while screwing down the cap. You also have to use "locktite" on the threads. For disassembly you can heat the cap with a lighter which will break the "locktite's" bond, but will have to be careful when removing the cap or the spring could put your eye out. With the "Wolff Gunsprings" unit the springs are automatically decompressed as you are removing the slide. It's nice just having to replace the springs instead of the entire unit. Definitely a better "mousetrap". I have a Walther PPK/S that the recoil spring had to be replaced after only a few hundred rounds, so you never know how long the springs will last, or if they were weak from the get-go. There is also a video on "you tube" where the plastic recoil assembly failed on a Glock G27 after only a few rounds, it might be only 1 gun out of 10,000 pistols but why take that chance? I detest having to buy replacement parts on a brand new gun, but there are some parts I'm just not comfortable with, but like the gun otherwise. The new Beretta's 92 FS have plastic triggers, guide rods and slide safety assemblies whereas the old ones don't. I'm glad I bought a used 92 FS Inox. Beretta even offers steel replacement parts to replace the plastic ones that should have been in the gun in the first place. Same can be said for the nylon triggers on the Sig P238 and Colt Mustang's which are known to crack. I believe Colt switched back to aluminum. Cylinder & Slide make nice aluminum replacements that work for both. The plastic mainspring housings on some 1911's break at the hole for the mainspring plunger retaining pin. If you are not that skilled or intimidated by completely disassembling a firearm beyond basic field stripping, you will have to pay someone to do it for you in addition to the cost of the parts. At least if they were installed at the factory you wouldn't have the installation cost. In my opinion gun manufacturers are trying to cut corners wherever they can. Why should we be the guinea pigs if these parts fail, especially at the wrong time? Very few guns are 100% perfect, no product is, that's why there are after market parts that address certain weaknesses or design flaws. Sometimes people aren't aware of these flaws until after they purchased the gun. Buying something else may not be an option if every gun manufacture does the same. Then your only option is to buy used, which if you don't know what your looking for presents it's own set of problems.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Survivor said:


> Thank you both for two very informative responses. My short term experience with Glocks is probably very apparent in my post. I always thought it very strange to hear people say that the first thing they planned to do after purchasing a handgun (brand not relevant) would be to buy replacement parts for it. In a few cases they would make changes to their gun even before firing it for the first time. *I always felt that any firearm should be ready to go and perform well right out of the box, so to speak. If not, then I would consider buying something else*. ....... Again, thank you both for very valuable information.


First of all, you're entirely welcome!

Second, I really have to agree with what desertman has said. I thought about making similar comments, myself; but I don't want to come across as a, 'Glock hater'. (Disappointed with Glocks? Yes; but a hater? No. In fact, I carry a Glock pistol almost everyday.)

Now that I know my way around the Glock platform my attitude towards buying a new Glock pistol (Which I'm, probably, never going to do again.) is something akin to buying nothing more than a parts kit from which I intend to assemble a finished pistol.

In my opinion - and this is only my opinion - if Glock pistols were properly built at the factory, then, it wouldn't be necessary to load them up with all sorts of aftermarket parts like: steel guide rods, oversized and straight-cut slide locks, trigger stops, '3.5#' connectors, highly consistent Wolff springs, and even aluminum slide covers and polymer frame plugs; and there are other parts that could be added to this list, as well.

(Notice that I didn't say a thing about, also, using an aftermarket barrel with precision-cut lugs. Why? Because the additional 1/4 to 1/2 inch of accuracy might not be worth it to many shooters.)

Today, we're living in a different age than the one that I grew up in. In my day Colt and Smith & Wesson pistols were produced to absolutely flawless production standards - The manufacturer's MORALITY and CREDIBILITY were demonstrated in the finished products that were offered for sale to the general public. THAT type of manufacturing integrity no longer applies to the American firearms market and especially not to the handgun market in particular. Buying a gun, today, reminds me of purchasing a 1950's or 60's Chevy Corvair, or Ford Edsel.

During the late 50's and early 60's it was quite a risk to buy a new, 'mid-price' car. This situation went on for years; and, in spite of the numerous law suits, didn't really straighten itself out until people became too frightened to buy a new car, and sales began to nosedive. Is a similar situation taking place with firearms today? I really don't know; but, now, the market is global rather than national; and, every now and then, I start to get this sense of deja vu. One thing's for certain, though: Western civilization needs mass-produced cars; but western governments (and by extension, 'western civilization') appear to be universally adamant that their citizens do not need mass-produced firearms.

To my mind, Western (international) corporations are in complete agreement with this very active governmental diminution of the constitutional (Some would say, 'unalienable'***) rights upon which this western civilization - America - was originally founded. I mean, Hell, I wouldn't be living in Pennsylvania, today, if my home state of New Jersey were still obedient to the Constitution! I'm, also, positive that hundreds of thousands - if not tens of millions - of other perfectly law-abiding American gun owners are now in exactly, 'the same boat' too.

When I was young I would go out and simply buy my guns; but, today, I prefer to assemble and build them - Not so much with rifles and carbines, more so with lower priced shotguns, and definitely with any popularly priced handgun like, say, a Glock pistol.

*** Thomas Jefferson's word choice and spelling - not mine.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Glock Doctor:


> "I mean, Hell, I wouldn't be living in Pennsylvania, today, if my home state of New Jersey were still obedient to the Constitution! I'm, also, positive that hundreds of thousands - if not tens of millions - of other perfectly law-abiding American gun owners are now in exactly, 'the same boat' too. "


I'm sure glad you got out of New Jersey too, it's a shame you couldn't have moved to a solidly "Red" state. Pennsylvania can't be too far behind in violating the Constitution especially with the influx of people from the New York City area that want to own a home in the suburbs and find that the commute from central and northeastern Pennsylvania to NYC is a relatively easy one. Plus the cost of living to be sure is probably a lot cheaper in Pennsylvania. Which is kind of ironic because many of these people are now escaping from all the problems they caused, yet still vote Democratic. At one time Long Island, and the New York City suburbs were all Republican, but no more. Cuomo got elected governor largely because it was no contest in those areas and of course NYC. His recent comments regarding Conservatives proves that the "Safe Act" was nothing more than political retribution against those that don't subscribe to his way of thinking. What Cuomo did was repulsive and sickening and proves what will happen when the majority tramples on the rights of the minority and uses the force of government to carry it out. I'm just hoping that the tens of millions of American gun owners that are in the same boat can pack up and leave those God awful places and move to states that respect the Constitution and uphold the fact that we are a "Constitutional Republic" and not a democracy. If that happens the "Red" states will get stronger and the "Blue" states will get weaker. When you look at the electoral map of the United States most of the counties are "Red" it's the damn cities and their suburbs that decide the presidential elections. Can you imagine if New York and California only had a handful of electoral votes? We wouldn't have a Black Militant in the White House today. As for me I thank God I live in Arizona.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

I learned something today, too; first I'd heard of the Tungsten rods wearing-out (as evidenced by my initial response that the metal rods should "last forever"). I knew most folks who tried them didn't think they picked-up any worthwhile advantage(s) by using them, but given the cost and construction, if they wear-out AT ALL, then that is the final nail in their coffin, in my book.

When it comes to Glocks, in my experience, less is more. Until the new Glock owner/shooter can present the pistol and place shots in the intended aiming point at a high rate of speed with the unmodified pistol, virtually all add-ons are wasted time/effort/money, and often treated as a substitute for practice-built skills vs. an enhancement to them. The only exception I make to this rule is in sights, as the stock sights seem like they are more of a placeholder than serious items for long-term use.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

:smt107 Oh, wow! Somebody who actually knows the difference between a (constitutional) republic, and a democracy. Who would 'a thunk! :smt002 



(Right now America is being, 'democracied' to death - Which is, of course, something the Founding Fathers never intended.)


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Glock Doctor:


> "Oh, wow! Somebody who actually knows the difference between a (constitutional) republic, and a democracy. Who would 'a thunk!"


I was taught in a union free school district (UFSD). The teachers union is a wing of the Democratic Party, who don't believe in the Constitution as it is written or the concept of a Constitutional Republic. In spite of the fact that the Constitution's purpose is to constrain government and the purpose of a Constitutional Republic is to respect and secure the rights of the minority.



> "The law has been used to destroy it's own objective; It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which it's real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense." "But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder." --- The Law by Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850) French economist, statesman, and author."


If you haven't, you've got to read this book.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

desertman said:


> .......
> 
> "_The law has been used to destroy it's own objective; It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which it's real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense." "But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder." --- The Law by Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850) French economist, statesman, and author._"
> 
> If you haven't, you've got to read this book.


I'm in complete agreement; however, I'm already depressed enough; and I'm not going to read Bastiat's book. (Pretty smart fellow, though, huh!)


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Glock Doctor:
Actually the "Law" is quite uplifting, it also provides us with a rational argument to counter what is happening in this country today. It's only 5" X 7 1/2", 75 pages and a few hours read. Bastiat was indeed a genius!


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Let's get back on-topic, guys. "Guide Rod Replacement", if you've forgotten. :mrgreen:


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I guess what a lot of this all boils down to is: Even if there is nothing wrong with a firearm out of the box, people are free to customize or personalize them however they wish, it is their money. If I want to stand there and flush it down the toilet that's my business. What may be a waste of time and money to some brings enjoyment to others. Look at all the after market parts that are available for just about all makes of firearms, grips, triggers, hammers, guide rod assemblies, this that and God knows what else. If there were no demand for them no one would make them. In addition to shooting their guns some people including myself love to tinker or personalize their guns in some way. I happen to like my Glock pistols, but there were things that I wanted to change on the pistol to suit myself such as night sights, "Wolff" non-captive guide rod assembly, stainless steel pins, extended chrome takedown lever, extended chrome slide release and an anodized aluminum "Pyramid" trigger assembly. Do any of these products make the gun shoot any better? Probably not, but I could care less, it makes me happy and I'm the one I've got to please. A friend of mine bought just about every accessory he could find that he could attach to his AR 15, to me it looked like he dragged a magnet through a junkyard, but he's happy and that's all that counts.


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## frankie001 (Mar 30, 2014)

Hello, I am new to this forum and this website in general , however im looking for some help.. The guide rod on my beretta 92fs ( plastic rod ) broke literally in half. and when I went to try and field strip the gun the slide is stuck. Any suggestions...? ( Gun is unloaded ) 

First shot the gun 
then I noticed the guide rod was sticking out 
pulled back the slide to empty chamber removed mag and then the spring was slightly sticking out of the right side of the gun...

Again my main problem is that I press the latch and flip the release to have the slide go forward but that slide wont remove and is stuck

Thank you so much for any help


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