# Verizon Wireless Anti-Gun Policy



## jpruett79

I recently sent an email to Verizon stating i had a problem with the fact they had a no gun sing on the door to one of there stores here in Knoxville. Read their response carefully and if you would share the email with the club members. Verizon is about to launch their service in bluefield and i would hate see one gun owner do business with a company with so little respect for their rights.

My initial email

Dear Sir or Madame,

I recently attempted to visit your location in the Turkey Creek Shopping Center in Knoxville, Tn. I wanted to purchase an accessory for my company phone. I have also been considering changing my personal phone from Sprint to your services based on my employers experience with your company. Once i arrived there i noticed a small sticker in the door saying no firearms. I immediately stoped just outside the door turned around got back into my car and left. I do not do business with company's that do not respect my legal right to protect myself and my family. I was looking for a memory card for my phone valued at about 100 dollars. Also my rate plan with sprint is about 150 dollars a month. This is money your company has lost because of this policy. I have submitted this location to a national Internet database. This database is used as a reference by a vast number of legally armed persons as a clearinghouse with respect to those business that would ignore their Constitutional Rights. These customers may choose to boycott businesses that restrict their ability to protect themselves. In this day and age with businesses in constant competition, the loss of these customers and the negative image generated by this type of policy is imprudent. This letter is being sent to afford you the opportunity to respond, and to re-evaluate the decision to restrict these customers? rights. Holders of concealed firearms permits have submitted their fingerprints to both State and Federal Authorities. State Law Enforcement Agencies and the FBI have found their backgrounds and training to be sufficient to license them to carry a concealed weapon. How much do you know about the rest of your customers? Thank You: James Pruett Knoxville Tn.

Verizon's responce

> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:51:47 -0400
> From: [email protected]
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Product or Service Feedback (KMM26844947I22686L0KM)
> 
> Dear James Pruett,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. 
> 
> Mr. Pruett, on behalf of Verizon Wireless, please accept my apology for your dissatisfaction with your recent visit to Turkey Creek location. I am disappointed that our "No Firearms Permitted" policy offended you, or that Verizon Wireless does not respect potential customers options to carry firearms. This policy is enforced for the protection of all store employees and customers to avoid any confusion. I hope we can restore your confidence in Verizon Wireless and prove that we are worthy of your future business. 
> 
> We appreciate you taking the time to contact us. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> Ty 
> Verizon Wireless
> Customer Service
> 
> "We never stop working for you!" 
> 
> If you have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and deleting it and all copies and backups thereof. If you are the intended recipient and are a Verizon Wireless customer, this response is subject to the terms of your Customer Agreement.

My second responce

Ty,

Does Verizon really think that a sign will prevent a criminal from entering a store and committing acts of violence. What the sign does tell the criminal is that all the customers inside are targets. Because anyone law abiding citizen who would potentially have the option to defend themselves had to leave their weapon in the car. That policy only makes your stores more dangerous. That has been proven.

I am delighted however that you responded to me saying that Verizon does not not respect potential customers options to carry firearms. I plan to post your response on every pro gun forum i can find to show your other customers the disrespect you have for their constitutional rights. I personally would NEVER do business with a company that would treat my rights that people died to give me with such trivial disrespect. Again thank you for giving me the motivation to continue to advertise this and share your disgraceful policy with others.

Just the fact that i have a licence to carry a firearm shows that i have the utmost respect for the law. I had to pass a background check showing that i don't drink and drive I have never had a felony conviction or even any act of violence. I had to have firearms training to show i knew how to use a firearm responsibly. Do you know that much about your other customers. Criminals are not going obey laws and company policy's that's why they are criminals.

Thank You
James Pruett

At this point i have heared nothing more from them. If i do will pass it on. I would encourage everyone to think twice about doing business with companys that have so little respect for our rights.


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## SuckLead

I'll be making sure to cancel my plan with Verizon in a month or two when the contract is up. I only wait that long because it would cost me to end the service early. I'll have to stop by one of the stores soon to see if the sign is there, too. I have yet to actually to see one, but I may have just not noticed. I usually only go to a Verizon store when I'm pissed off. LOL! 

I must admit, the list of places I won't do business with is going higher daily. What gets me is that pro-gun people will laugh at me for doing this. Such as Pepsi. Our boss let us know that Pepsi gives money to anti-gun organizations, and his first move was to remove all Pepsi products from our store's vending machine. I agreed with the move and no longer drink Pepsi products. But my co-workers, for the most part, thought it was funny. And most went out and bought their own Pepsi products to keep in the store refrigerator. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.


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## Baldy

That's how the liberal elite think. They are that stupid to think that sign will keep the BG out. Just like they make a law for everything. Your not going to get anywhere with that idiot.


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## jpruett79

Sucklead its funny that you mentioned running out of places to shop. I am running into the same problem but if we just complain once and keep giving them our business they will never learn. Kudos for canceling your plan there are too many cell phone comanys out there to put up with that crap. You may want to look at cingular my brother has had really good luck with them.


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## Maximo

jpruett79 said:


> This policy is enforced for the protection of all store employees and customers to avoid any confusion.


A person with a CHL has had a complete butt probe inspection of a background check. Here in Texas you must pass a Texas DPS check then an FBI check. We ARE THE GOOD GUYS. What the hell is so confusing about that?
Any business that post a no guns signs might as well paint a target on the front door. :smt011


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## john doe.

That's good to know. Thank you. I'll have to check my local store to see if that sign is posted. This is like Iowa City, Iowa where I moved from. They have signs when you come into town that shows a mushroom cloud with a slash through it. Below it says, "Nuclear Free Zone".

Morons, complete morons. This is why it has a nick name of, "The Socialist Republic of Iowa City". It’s the San Fransico of Iowa.


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## SuckLead

Maximo said:


> A person with a CHL has had a complete butt probe inspection of a background check. Here in Texas you must pass a Texas DPS check then an FBI check. We ARE THE GOOD GUYS. What the hell is so confusing about that?
> Any business that post a no guns signs might as well paint a target on the front door. :smt011


Well, you know, according to the antis, the people with the legal guns and background checks are the ones to fear. We're shady.


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## js

Well that just blows ass... I've been with Verizon for some time now and just renewed my contact for another year, last week. :smt011


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## Todd

Good to know this. We're shopping for a new wireless company because we currently have Sprint and the absolutley SUCK in my area. Dropped calls, no service, etc. It's horrible. Anyway, we were strongly considering Verizon because they have the best coverage in the area, but now I think I'll be taking a harder look at Cingular.


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## Hal8000

JS, now might be a good time to complain anyway... It may not be too late. Also, if you are really hot, get another provider, cancel Verison and let them try and collect. It could kill your credit rating and you could lose, but it would sure give you the opportunity to make a big stink about it...

Notice it's your money and credit I'm spending with this suggestion...


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## Mdnitedrftr

I hated Verizon before, for their poor customer service, but this just makes me hate them even more. If my phone wasnt paid for by work, then I would take my business elsewhere.


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## Shipwreck

I see a lot less anti CHL signs in my area of TX than I used to. Lately, the hospital and SOME banks are really the only place I see them around here...


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## jpruett79

js said:


> Well that just blows ass... I've been with Verizon for some time now and just renewed my contact for another year, last week. :smt011


You may want to check into canceling if you only renewed your contract my employer has verizon and any time they renew a contract i believe they have 2 weeks to change or cancel the renewal. That may just be a business agreement but it would be worth looking into. If nothing else just by calling and telling them you wanted to cancel over that policy may show them there is one more person pissed off about their rediculous policy.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79,

I would suggest that instead of wasting your time dealing with “Customer NO Service” peons, you e-mail the Customer Service President or VP at Verizon headquarters.

Better yet call them. 

Verizon Communications
Corporate Headquarters
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007

Telephone: 800-621-9900


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> jpruett79,
> 
> I would suggest that instead of wasting your time dealing with "Customer NO Service" peons, you e-mail the Customer Service President or VP at Verizon headquarters.
> 
> Better yet call them.
> 
> Verizon Communications
> Corporate Headquarters
> 140 West Street
> New York, NY 10007
> 
> Telephone: 800-621-9900


I have heared the best way to communicate is still snail mail so i think what i will do is print off a copy of the my intial email their reply and then my reply put it with a hadwritten letter stating to them this kinda of biggetry is why i will never do business with their company. given the fack that they are in NYC they will problaby just laugh but i guess we have to have a tough skin to win the fight.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> I have heared the best way to communicate is still snail mail so i think what i will do is print off a copy of the my intial email their reply and then my reply put it with a hadwritten letter stating to them this kinda of biggetry is why i will never do business with their company. given the fack that they are in NYC they will problaby just laugh but i guess we have to have a tough skin to win the fight.


Yes, snail mail works but you need to send it to a certain person. That's an 800 number, call and find out the name first. If you just send a letter to HQ it probably will never get to where you want it to go. And hey, you may be surprised an really talk to the head person in charge.


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## jpruett79

Mr. P i took your advice and called the number you gave me. I was then given the number to their customer relations department. I called the first time and told the lady what i wanted to do and was instantly disconnected. I called back and was a little more careful with my wording. This time i spoke to a lady who was much more supportive of my position. She took my information and said she would file the complaint and someone would call me. I then ask for a address to send an additional letter to. I thanked her for her time and told her i would type up a letter and mail it out in the morning.

I would like to thank everyone here for encouraging me to press this issue forward. Also if anyone has any suggestions as to what i should say in the letter i would appreciate the input.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> Mr. P i took your advice and called the number you gave me. I was then given the number to their customer relations department. I called the first time and told the lady what i wanted to do and was instantly disconnected. I called back and was a little more careful with my wording. This time i spoke to a lady who was much more supportive of my position. She took my information and said she would file the complaint and someone would call me. I then ask for a address to send an additional letter to. I thanked her for her time and told her i would type up a letter and mail it out in the morning.
> 
> I would like to thank everyone here for encouraging me to press this issue forward. Also if anyone has any suggestions as to what i should say in the letter i would appreciate the input.


I'd focus on this guy for the letter and even a call...

*Thomas J. Tauke 
Executive Vice President - Public Affairs, Policy and Communications*

http://investor.verizon.com/corp_gov/corp_officers.aspx
If you get no satisfaction from that go to the top.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

He's on the link.


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## Mr. P

It may be an up-hill battle, jpruett79.

Employee policy&#8230;.in pdf.

1.3 Workplace Violence
We all deserve to work in an environment that is free from violence or hostility. Verizon will
not tolerate any threatening, hostile or abusive behavior by employees in the workplace,
while operating company vehicles or on company business, or by any persons on company
property, and will take immediate and appropriate action against offenders, up to and
including termination and referral for criminal prosecution. Damage to property is also
prohibited.
*You may not possess or use any weapon or any component of a weapon (e.g. ammunition)
on company property. You must not use any tool, equipment or other material as a weapon
or as a component of a weapon. You must report any instance of violence, hostile behavior
or possession of weapons on company property to Security and a supervisor immediately.*
In cases of imminent danger, you should contact 911 or local law enforcement first, and
then contact Security.
Domestic violence can also adversely affect workplace safety. If you are the victim of such
violence, you should notify the police and Security of any person who may affect your safety
or the safety of your fellow employees.
http://investor.verizon.com/corp_gov/code_conduct.aspx


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> It may be an up-hill battle, jpruett79.
> 
> Employee policy&#8230;.in pdf.
> 
> 1.3 Workplace Violence
> We all deserve to work in an environment that is free from violence or hostility. Verizon will
> not tolerate any threatening, hostile or abusive behavior by employees in the workplace,
> while operating company vehicles or on company business, or by any persons on company
> property, and will take immediate and appropriate action against offenders, up to and
> including termination and referral for criminal prosecution. Damage to property is also
> prohibited.
> *You may not possess or use any weapon or any component of a weapon (e.g. ammunition)
> on company property. You must not use any tool, equipment or other material as a weapon
> or as a component of a weapon. You must report any instance of violence, hostile behavior
> or possession of weapons on company property to Security and a supervisor immediately.*
> In cases of imminent danger, you should contact 911 or local law enforcement first, and
> then contact Security.
> Domestic violence can also adversely affect workplace safety. If you are the victim of such
> violence, you should notify the police and Security of any person who may affect your safety
> or the safety of your fellow employees.
> http://investor.verizon.com/corp_gov/code_conduct.aspx


WOW It is very clear by their policy that they would rather see an employee killed than a criminal hurt.

I dont remember were i saw but somewere i saw a post mentioning that a company would rather have an employee killed than a criminal get hurt cause the crimial could then sue. It appears they value money more than the lives of their employees.

That makes me value my job that much more.s


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## Revolver

tnoisaw said:


> That's good to know. Thank you. I'll have to check my local store to see if that sign is posted. This is like Iowa City, Iowa where I moved from. They have signs when you come into town that shows a mushroom cloud with a slash through it. Below it says, "Nuclear Free Zone".
> 
> Morons, complete morons. This is why it has a nick name of, "The Socialist Republic of Iowa City". It's the San Fransico of Iowa.


I wonder how the city would function if all Nuclear-related power was cut off from them? Bet they'd change their tune then.

It's also a good thing I'm not burdened with a cell phone. Don't want to ever be forced to have one either.


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## TexasFats

*We know their priorities*

It has finally gotten through my thick, part German, part Scottish, part Choctaw skull that the anti-gun crowd would rather see 1000 innocent people killed by criminals than to see one peasant (i.e., ordinary citizen) engage in any act of self-defense. Not only do they value the lives and safety of criminals above the lives and safety of ordinary people, but they consider ordinary people to be criminals who haven't been caught yet. To the Devil with them all. As the Bard would say, "A pox on their houses!" (Note: "pox" in Elizabethan England meant VD.) What I would like to know is what these elitists have planned that makes them afraid for us to have weapons.

Actually, I suspect that no-gun policies are meant to help keep the liability lawyers at bay if somebody does go postal in their workplace. On the other hand, active support for anti-gun organizations indicates a desire to disarm Americans. That is why I will not join AARP, even though I could save some money on glasses, insurance, etc.

:smt071 
:smt1099


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## john doe.

:smt023
You're so right. The same people who don't want us to have guns hire body guards with guns to protect them or even have guns themselves.


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## jpruett79

Here is the letter i will send to verizon in the morning. Could anyone give me some input on the contents what i should add or leave out. The letter is barley fits on one page and i think to be effective i may want to leave something out.


To Whom It May Concern

I recently attempted to visit your Turkey Creek Location in Knoxville, TN. I wanted to purchase a 2gb memory card that Verizon had an exclusive on. I also wanted to look at my options for changing from my SprintPCS service plan to Verizon. I spend about 150 dollars a month on my family's cell phones. As i was walking to the door I noticed there was a small “No-Gun” sign on the door. Once I noticed the sign i turned around got in my car and drove away. I was able to purchase a similar memory card at Office Max and I decided to keep Sprint for my cellular service. I was not carrying a firearm at the time but i refuse to do business with a company which does not respect my rights.
I was really insulted that Verizon Wireless does not want my business solely because I chose to take the responsibility to protect myself and my family. What if while visiting your store I had to leave my firearm in my vehicle and someone stole it? What if after steeling it they used illegally to rob or murder someone? What if I left the firearm in my vehicle and while i was in your store a criminal decided to come into your store and commit acts of violence against your customers or your employees? If i was not forced to leave my weapon in the vehicle I might have the ability to save the lives of the other people in the store. Has your company considered the legal repercussions of what would happen if someone licensed to carry a firearm left his or her weapon in the vehicle and their spouse was killed in your store when the would have been able to stop the attacker if you didn't have a “No-Gun” policy. You see the funny thing about those signs are criminals don't care about a sign. For example how many would be robbers would start into your store to do harm to others and see the sign, stop and say oh they don't allow guns i better not go in there. What a criminal would say is oh they don't allow guns so there wont be anybody in there with the ability to defend themselves from my attack. That raises the question of what do you want the sign to accomplish? I think we have established the fact that it will not stop crime. 
When I obtained my license to carry a concealed firearm I had to voluntarily give a copy of my fingerprints and go through a in depth background check. The background check verify that I have never been convicted of any felony and also that i have never been convicted of any type of violent crime. Several other things the background check covers are to be sure i haven't had any drug or alcohol problems and that I am mentally capable of carrying a firearm. In addition to the background check I also have to go through firearms training to teach how to use a firearm responsibly. As you can see people who go through all the hoops and obtain a license to carry a firearm are some of the most upstanding people in this great country. How much do you know about your other customers?
I am writing this letter to ask you to remove the “No-Gun” signs from your stores. Myself and my others like me do not do business with company's with “No-Gun” policy. Those policies only affect law abiding individuals who hope every day they never have to use their weapons but at the same time refuse to be a victim. I have submitted the information about this policy and your company to several databases of companies NOT to do business with until these policies change. I have also received support from other gun owners who have pledged not to do business with your company.

Sincerely


Enclosed is a copy of an email from your customer service department clearly stating that Verizon Wireless does not respect my rights. I have posted that email on the internet and have received an overwhelming response in my favor.


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## john doe.

*Hows this.*

Dear Verizon Wireless,

I recently visited your Turkey Creek Location in Knoxville, TN. I wanted to purchase a 2gb memory card that Verizon had an exclusive on. I also wanted to look at my options of changing from my Sprint PCS service plan to Verizon. I spend approximately 150 dollars per month on my family's cell phones. As I was walking to the door I noticed there was a small "No-Gun" sign on the door. Once I noticed that sign I turned around and left. I was able to purchase a similar memory card at Office Max and I decided to keep Sprint for my cellular service. I refuse to do business with a company who does not respect my rights to legally carry a handgun.

I am very disapointed that Verizon Wireless does not want my business solely because I chose to take the responsibility to protect myself and my family. The funny thing about those signs are criminals don't care about a sign.

When I obtained my license to carry a concealed firearm I had to voluntarily give a copy of my fingerprints and go through an in-depth background investigation. The background investigation verifies that I have never been convicted of a felony and have a clean drug and alcohol record. In addition to the background investigation a person has to go through extensive firearms training to receive a concealed carry license. As you can see, people who go through all the hoops to obtain a license to carry a firearm are some of the most upstanding people in this great country.

I am writing this letter to ask you to reconsider posting the "No-Gun" signs in your stores. Myself and many other responsible citizens do not do business with company's who are antigun. I have submitted the information about this policy and your company to several databases of companies who are antigun. I have also received support from other gun owners who have pledged not to do business with your company because of your antigun policies.

Regrettably,


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> Here is the letter i will send to verizon in the morning. Could anyone give me some input on the contents what i should add or leave out. The letter is barley fits on one page and i think to be effective i may want to leave something out.
> 
> To Whom It May Concern
> 
> I recently attempted to visit your Turkey Creek Location in Knoxville, TN. I wanted to purchase a 2gb memory card that Verizon had an exclusive on. I also wanted to look at my options for changing from my SprintPCS service plan to Verizon. I spend about 150 dollars a month on my family's cell phones. As i was walking to the door I noticed there was a small "No-Gun" sign on the door. Once I noticed the sign i turned around got in my car and drove away. I was able to purchase a similar memory card at Office Max and I decided to keep Sprint for my cellular service. I was not carrying a firearm at the time but i refuse to do business with a company which does not respect my rights.
> I was really insulted that Verizon Wireless does not want my business solely because I chose to take the responsibility to protect myself and my family. What if while visiting your store I had to leave my firearm in my vehicle and someone stole it? What if after steeling it they used illegally to rob or murder someone? *What if I left the firearm in my vehicle and while i was in your store a criminal decided to come into your store and commit acts of violence against your customers or your employees? If i was not forced to leave my weapon in the vehicle I might have the ability to save the lives of the other people in the store.* Has your company considered the legal repercussions of what would happen if someone licensed to carry a firearm left his or her weapon in the vehicle and their spouse was killed in your store when the would have been able to stop the attacker if you didn't have a "No-Gun" policy. You see the funny thing about those signs are criminals don't care about a sign. For example how many would be robbers would start into your store to do harm to others and see the sign, stop and say oh they don't allow guns i better not go in there. What a criminal would say is oh they don't allow guns so there wont be anybody in there with the ability to defend themselves from my attack. That raises the question of what do you want the sign to accomplish? I think we have established the fact that it will not stop crime.
> When I obtained my license to carry a concealed firearm I had to voluntarily give a copy of my fingerprints and go through a in depth background check. The background check verify that I have never been convicted of any felony and also that i have never been convicted of any type of violent crime. Several other things the background check covers are to be sure i haven't had any drug or alcohol problems and that I am mentally capable of carrying a firearm. In addition to the background check I also have to go through firearms training to teach how to use a firearm responsibly. As you can see people who go through all the hoops and obtain a license to carry a firearm are some of the most upstanding people in this great country. How much do you know about your other customers?
> I am writing this letter to ask you to remove the "No-Gun" signs from your stores. Myself and my others like me do not do business with company's with "No-Gun" policy. Those policies only affect law abiding individuals who hope every day they never have to use their weapons but at the same time refuse to be a victim. I have submitted the information about this policy and your company to several databases of companies NOT to do business with until these policies change. I have also received support from other gun owners who have pledged not to do business with your company.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> Enclosed is a copy of an email from your customer service department clearly stating that Verizon Wireless does not respect my rights. I have posted that email on the internet and have received an overwhelming response in my favor.


I forget the state, I think it was Texas not sure. A women left her gun in the car because the restaurant had the same NO GUN policy. While inside, BGs came in robbed and killed a few folks. Her gun was in the car.


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> I forget the state, I think it was Texas not sure. A women left her gun in the car because the restaurant had the same NO GUN policy. While inside, BGs came in robbed and killed a few folks. Her gun was in the car.


There was a similar story were a girl was with her parents and she got out but both her parents were shot and killed. It may be the same story. All i can say is i dont want that to be me and if it means i have to choose were i shop on that basis thats what i will do.

And thank you both for your suggestions i fixed my gramatical errors and made a few changes and have them addressed and ready to go. Im sending one to the person MR.P sugested and im sending it to the person i spoke to today that is handling my formal complaint.


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## john doe.

As a side note. I checked my local Verizon in our mall yesturday and did not see a no gun sign. We are probably one of the most gun friendly states though.


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## Mr. P

tnoisaw said:


> As a side note. I checked my local Verizon in our mall yesturday and did not see a no gun sign. We are probably one of the most gun friendly states though.


Thinking it may just be a store manager thing. You?


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## TexasFats

Mr. P said:


> I forget the state, I think it was Texas not sure. A women left her gun in the car because the restaurant had the same NO GUN policy. While inside, BGs came in robbed and killed a few folks. Her gun was in the car.


That was actually in Texas before the CHL law was passed. The lady left her gun in the car because, under Texas law at the time, she was carrying illegally. Then, she went in to Luby's in Kileen to have lunch with her parents. A deranged man drove his pickup through the front of the store, jumped out, and began killing customers, including both of the lady's parents. As a result, she ran for the legislature and was instrumental, in my opinion, in getting Texas' CHL law passed.


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## jpruett79

I dont think it is a store manager thing because of they way my email was handled. That being said I may have just gotten a cs rep that was anti-gun himself.

As far as the store in the mall most of the verizon locations are just agents. What that means is its a private business who sells phones for verizon and then verizon pays that store for the contract. When i was in college i was in the phone business and that was about the time verizon started selling off their locations. I was told they determined it was cheaper to pay someone else to sell the phones. What i have found is in each major market they keep one store that is actually run by Verizon to handle customer service and phone repairs. I would be interested to know next time you are at the mall if you could see if it as a corporate or a agent location. Usually under they sign it will say its a autorized agent but thants not always clear.

It may be possible also that it is just a managers rule or that it is a company rule and not all managers post the signs. If it is just a managers decision i will problaby be informed of that when the letters get somewere. If its a chain wide company policy they may or may not respond to the letters.

Also it would be a streatch but in tennessee the signs carry the weight of the law so maybey they dont post it in other locations because they know they cant enforce it. 

I will try and keep everyone posted when and if i do hear anything


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> ...
> 
> I will try and keep everyone posted when and if i do hear anything


Please do.


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## Benzbuilder

The whole issue is with the lawyers. The company is just covering their six. However, I completely agree with you. I, myself have a long list of companies that I will no longer support because of their no-gun policies, Conoco Phillips has the same policy. I had no idea that Pepsi gives money to anti-gun lobbies. they just made my list.


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## jpruett79

Benzbuilder said:


> The whole issue is with the lawyers. The company is just covering their six. However, I completely agree with you. I, myself have a long list of companies that I will no longer support because of their no-gun policies, Conoco Phillips has the same policy. I had no idea that Pepsi gives money to anti-gun lobbies. they just made my list.


It may be just the lawyers talking. but that is because gun people dont tend to be the ones going out and sueing everybody. If everytime there was a gun crime and there was a ccw present that didnt have a gun and sued the company for not leting him have his gun. The bad thing is without his gun he not live to sue. The only thing that seems to scare companys if getting sued and since the only people sueing them are anti gun the compnay becomes anti gun.

Kudos for sticking to your guns and not doing buisness with those companys.
I know it gets hard sometimes everywere i go there is another place i cant shop and it get discouraging. But on the same token people died to give us our gun rights so it would discrace their memeorys not to alteast go to the other side of town to shop inoder to keep those rights.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> It may be just the lawyers talking. but that is because gun people dont tend to be the ones going out and sueing everybody. If everytime there was a gun crime and there was a ccw present that didnt have a gun and sued the company for not leting him have his gun. The bad thing is without his gun he not live to sue. The only thing that seems to scare companys if getting sued and since the only people sueing them are anti gun the compnay becomes anti gun.
> 
> Kudos for sticking to your guns and not doing buisness with those companys.
> I know it gets hard sometimes everywere i go there is another place i cant shop and it get discouraging. *But on the same token people died to give us our gun rights so it would discrace their memeorys not to alteast go to the other side of town to shop inoder to keep those rights.*


Well heck, now I gotta say it..... *It's a private business* and *they are not taking any right away from anyone.* All they may be doing, and we don't know yet, is conducting their business as they see fit. I may not agree with them but it is their business. I talk with my feet in cases like this.


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> Well heck, now I gotta say it..... *It's a private business* and *they are not taking any right away from anyone.* All they may be doing, and we don't know yet, is conducting their business as they see fit. I may not agree with them but it is their business. I talk with my feet in cases like this.


Im kinda undecided on that argument. Yes it is a private business and yea they should be allowed to set their own policys. But what happens when every private business adopts that policy? That ccw licence is useless yea you can get out and drive around but you cant stop your car and go in a building cause they are private business. Well you could leave it in your car but what if they say they dont allow them in their parking lot? Im glad you talk with your feet but in some cases i dont think thats enough. Right now its easy to just go and shop somwere else but what happens when the bradys convice more companys to set those policys. I read a paplet a couple weeks ago from the bradys it was about why business shouldnt alow guns. the intent was clearly that if all business ban guns then it wont matter what laws it would destroy conceald carry.

On the bright side of that its would allow small business to step in and say we dont care if you have guns come shop here. well that would be all the leverage that business needed to compete on a large scale.

So Mr.P on one hand i agree with your argument but at the same time i just think there is too much at stake.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> Im kinda undecided on that argument. Yes it is a private business and yea they should be allowed to set their own policys. But what happens when every private business adopts that policy? That ccw licence is useless yea you can get out and drive around but you cant stop your car and go in a building cause they are private business. Well you could leave it in your car but what if they say they dont allow them in their parking lot? Im glad you talk with your feet but in some cases i dont think thats enough. Right now its easy to just go and shop somwere else but what happens when the bradys convice more companys to set those policys. I read a paplet a couple weeks ago from the bradys it was about why business shouldnt alow guns. the intent was clearly that if all business ban guns then it wont matter what laws it would destroy conceald carry.
> 
> On the bright side of that its would allow small business to step in and say we dont care if you have guns come shop here. well that would be all the leverage that business needed to compete on a large scale.
> 
> So Mr.P on one hand i agree with your argument but at the same time i just think there is too much at stake.


I understand.

Now, here in Ga. If you enter a business with such a policy, it's not a crime. So the brady folks are off base here. It would become a crime, a trespass, if they asked you to leave and you didn't. *Note that it's NOT the weapon you would be charged for having.* This is key in understanding my point that "rights" are not being taken away by the business.


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> I understand.
> 
> Now, here in Ga. If you enter a business with such a policy, it's not a crime. So the brady folks are off base here. It would become a crime, a trespass, if they asked you to leave and you didn't. *Note that it's NOT the weapon you would be charged for having.* This is key in understanding my point that "rights" are not being taken away by the business.


Now i do see were you are comming from to and i guess thats how i would like to the things ultimatly fixed. The business still wpi;d still have their rights to ask you to leave if they find out and then you just leave. In my home state of WV is the same as in GA they just ask you to leave, But were i run into problems is i work in TN were the signs carry the weight of the law and i have to choose do i stay safe and break the law or in 95 persent of the times i have the option to simply shop elsewere.


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## screwman

https://www.ohioccw.org/catalog/images/no_guns_cards.gif

And send them one of these.
I tried to copy and paste the image but it wouldn't work.

Mike


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## john doe.

screwman said:


> https://www.ohioccw.org/catalog/images/no_guns_cards.gif
> 
> And send them one of these.
> I tried to copy and paste the image but it wouldn't work.
> 
> Mike


I like that.


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## BerettaMan

Makes me wanna' go out and shoot my cell phone. I don't pay any attention to those stupid little signs. Concealed means they can't see it! My weapon is always either on my hip or under my pillow.


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## Mr. P

BerettaMan said:


> Makes me wanna' go out and shoot my cell phone. *I don't pay any attention to those stupid little signs. Concealed means they can't see it!* My weapon is always either on my hip or under my pillow.


I agree. I think those signs are just so the customer can "feel good" in the store, nothing more.
If anyone thinks a bad guy is going to pay attention to a sign like that they have a screw loose.

If No GUNS is policy and they see it and ask me to leave, fine, I will. Otherwise&#8230;.well you know.


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## BerettaMan

Mr. P. I agree 100%, "Why The Hell Should I Have To Press "1" For English?" You either learn the language or get the hell out of our country!!!!!!! Ehhh, don't get me started!!


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## jpruett79

I got a phone call today from a Pat Laverty. He works in the executive office for Dennis F. Strigl Executive Vice President and President and CEO - Verizon Wireless. Pat called to tell me they recieved my letter and apearalty it struck a nerve with Mr. Strigl. because he said they will consider changing the policy. Pat told me i would recieve another call in several days with an update or atleast a proper justification of the policy.

Pat Laverty's phone number is 800-760-4658. That seems to be a direct line. When i called back he personaly answered the phone. 

I would recomend that anyone who would like to see this policy changed would give Pat a call and ask him to take down the signs. I dont know if they will change the policy on the basis of my letter alone but if they recieve enough phone calls it may do the trick.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> I got a phone call today from a Pat Laverty. He works in the executive office for Dennis F. Strigl Executive Vice President and President and CEO - Verizon Wireless. Pat called to tell me they recieved my letter and apearalty it struck a nerve with Mr. Strigl. because he said they will consider changing the policy. Pat told me i would recieve another call in several days with an update or atleast a proper justification of the policy.
> 
> Pat Laverty's phone number is 800-760-4658. That seems to be a direct line. When i called back he personaly answered the phone.
> 
> I would recomend that anyone who would like to see this policy changed would give Pat a call and ask him to take down the signs. I dont know if they will change the policy on the basis of my letter alone but if they recieve enough phone calls it may do the trick.


Excellent! Fast response too! What else did he say? Is it policy company wide? Etc.


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> Excellent! Fast response too! What else did he say? Is it policy company wide? Etc.


Yes it was a very fast responce. I thought it would be atleast the end of the week if i was contacted at all. I did get the impression that it is a company wide policy however he did not say either way. I almost got the impression that this may have been the first time Mr. Strigl's office has been made aware of the plolicy.

Pat didnt really say much he just wanted me to know they were looking into the policy to see why the policy was there and if they could change it. I felt the conversation was very positive at no point were my motives questioned. He asked if i had service with verizon I told him no but i was looking to change to them because of my employers experience. He asked if i had anything thing else to add regarding my experience. After that he reminded me that they are looking into the policy to see if it can be changed. Finally he said at the very least verizon owed me a legitimate explination and i would recieve another call in several days.

When i started this i have to admit i never expected to get this far. I think its too soon to tell if they will actually take the sign down but they were very responcive. Also Mr. Strigl's office is in Atlanta GA so they may be more open to our point of view.


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## john doe.

WoW! Good news. Truthfully, I never would have expected any answer at all. Some times us peons can get things done. I got offered a scholarship that way in college.


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## jpruett79

Well verizon called agian today and told me they will not remove that sign. That policy is in place because they want a family friendly environment in their stores.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> Well verizon called agian today and told me they will not remove that sign. That policy is in place because they want a family friendly environment in their stores.


I figured that was coming. There more concerned with liablity. The sign gives em a good case if anyone is hurt in the store. Can hold us liable "We had a sign".

However, this.."they want a family friendly environment in their stores" begs the question. Are gun owners NOT family friendly?


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## jpruett79

Mr. P said:


> However, this.."they want a family friendly environment in their stores" begs the question. Are gun owners NOT family friendly?


Sounds like in their minds gun owners dont have familys. In my mind gun owners are the most family friendly people out there. The reason we own guns is because we value our familys.

Im tempted to call the guy back but at this point i dont think it will do any good.


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## john doe.

jpruett79 said:


> Well verizon called agian today and told me they will not remove that sign. That policy is in place because they want a family friendly environment in their stores.


To bad.


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## john doe.

I wrote Verizon myself and this is what I said.
_
I have been shopping for a cell phone carrier lately since I've relocated to a new state, Montana. Regrettably I have learned that Verizon is an antigun business so I will take my money to another carrier.

A friend of mine was concerned about a sign that stated, "No guns" in one of your stores. Evidently you stated in a recent e-mail to him that you wanted a, "family friendly environment in your stores." How is it family friendly when I am not allowed to protect my family from possible harm? Is your naivety such that you think a, "No guns" sign will keep gun tooting criminals out of your stores? That is an invitation to the bad elements of our society in a business that is guaranteed to have no means of self protection. You may as well put out a sign that reads, "Attention all criminals, you may pillage, harm or murder anyone in this business because we are unarmed."

I understand that you are entitled to your opinion and I know many feel the way Verizon Wireless does. For example:

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler

Regrettably,_


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## Mr. P

Someone wanna do some work? Research crime in "No gun permited" vs "Gun permited" businesses, then use that for ammo..(NO PUN INTENDED).


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## john doe.

Sounds intresting and I love to do research but I'm not sure where I'd start on this one. I don't think the FBI breaks it down this much.


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## jpruett79

tnoisaw thanks for the backup i think your letter was excelent. Companys dont seem to listen untill it hurts their pockets. I am also scheculed to do an interview with mark vanderburg on his gunrightsadvocats podcast saturday about this very issue.

I would also be interested to know the statistics on were crimes take place. I know schools have been very popular latley and we all know they are gun free.
I did hear yesterday when i was listining to guntalk that utah changed their laws to allow concealed carry in schools. Mabey if it was that way everywere the five lives in the amish school could have been saved.

As far as research i wonder if you could start with the news. They are like to report every acident or crime. the news wouldnt tell you about the people saved with guns but you may be able to see a patern of were the crimes happend. Also i wonder if the nra publishes that info anywere.


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## Mr. P

tnoisaw said:


> Sounds intresting and I love to do research but I'm not sure where I'd start on this one. I don't think the FBI breaks it down this much.


It would be a great deal of work. You would have to research the company policy and then the local crime records, I think. If I see any study or data close, I'll post it.


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## john doe.

jpruett79 said:


> tnoisaw thanks for the backup i think your letter was excelent. Companys dont seem to listen untill it hurts their pockets. I am also scheculed to do an interview with mark vanderburg on his gunrightsadvocats podcast saturday about this very issue.
> 
> I would also be interested to know the statistics on were crimes take place. I know schools have been very popular latley and we all know they are gun free.
> I did hear yesterday when i was listining to guntalk that utah changed their laws to allow concealed carry in schools. Mabey if it was that way everywere the five lives in the amish school could have been saved.
> 
> As far as research i wonder if you could start with the news. They are like to report every acident or crime. the news wouldnt tell you about the people saved with guns but you may be able to see a patern of were the crimes happend. Also i wonder if the nra publishes that info anywere.


Your welcome. We all need to cover each others six here. Glad to hear about your upcoming interview. The more people that know the more pressure it puts on them to change bad policy.


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## jpruett79

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2004/tle265-20040404-07.html


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## john doe.

jpruett79 said:


> http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2004/tle265-20040404-07.html


WOW! Looks like this has been going on for a while.:smt011


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2004/tle265-20040404-07.html


I think there may be a misunderstanding here, between the company policy for employees and the company position on guns.

If I had a company as large as Verizion, I would have a no guns carried by employees policy too. That doesn't mean I'm anti-gun, just smart.


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## jpruett79

A no gun policy sure hasnt helped the post office. Anyone meaning to do harm wont and doesnt care if they are not allowed to carry guns. Its just like all the school shootings. Look at the one in the law school in Va. a couple years ago. It was stoped by students who had guns. I could see meret in only allowing licened indivuduals to carry but not an out right ban. My only hope would be in a large company if someone wanted to shoot up the place there would be someone else there to shoot back.

You could use the arguement that what if you make an employee mad and the go off their rocker. Well is somone has that kind of violent temper i doubt he could legally posses the gun anyway and if he is already breaking the law what does he care about company policy.

If i was a criminal and thought about shooting up my workplace i woudlnt dream of it because i know half the people in there would shoot back. And to a criminal the only affective deterent to crime is knowing their actions will get the killed.

To me the risk is just to high to have a room full of targets. In my mind it all comes down to the fact that the people that obey the law or company policys are not threat at all. If verizon had an employee that wanted to cause harm to the people he works with do you really thing he will stop because there is a no gun policy?


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## Mr. P

I agree that that a total NO GUN policy places everyone at risk. I hope they have some sort of security. But like I said before, an employee policy is one thing, a ban is something else. 

I support the right of a private business to set their own policy, whether I agree or not, and there are many I don’t agree with.


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## scooter

Mr. P said:


> I agree that that a total NO GUN policy places everyone at risk. I hope they have some sort of security. But like I said before, an employee policy is one thing, a ban is something else.
> 
> I support the right of a private business to set their own policy, whether I agree or not, and there are many I don't agree with.


I wont argue with an employer with that policy,I just find somewhere else to work!
I do however personally believe it is no different than a county/city etc saying no weapons allowed when the STATE has premptive laws to prohibit that.I believe if the state retains concealed carry at the STATE level only, businesses have NO MORE RIGHT to make a no gun POLICY than a city/county has to make a no gun law or ordinance. Just my .02


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## Mr. P

scooter said:


> I wont argue with an employer with that policy,I just find somewhere else to work!
> I do however personally believe it is no different than a county/city etc saying no weapons allowed when the STATE has premptive laws to prohibit that.*I believe if the state retains concealed carry at the STATE level only, businesses have NO MORE RIGHT to make a no gun POLICY than a city/county has to make a no gun law or ordinance. *Just my .02


Sure they do, they're private not government. They have the right to dictate whatever they want in their business, as long as it doesn't violate law, simply because they are "private".

Let's not confuse law with our rights. We have a "right" to own and carry firearms, but no "right" to infringe on private business policy. We have choice in that regard, that's all.


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## scooter

Mr. P said:


> Sure they do, they're private not government. They have the right to dictate whatever they want in their business, as long as it doesn't violate law, simply because they are "private".
> 
> Let's not confuse law with our rights. We have a "right" to own and carry firearms, but no "right" to infringe on private business policy. We have choice in that regard, that's all.


But it DOES violate the pre-emption law,at least a far as Im concerned,the state says no changing the rules from ours and then a company does,private or not ,and no matter what legalese you spin it into, it violates the pre-emption law,but then who pays attention to laws?? certainly not our own Govt.
and that line of thought can be spun over to immigration ....company policy says its ok to hire them so the LAW dont matter simply because they're private????


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## jpruett79

As it concerns a private business rights. I do believe business owners should have the right to ask someone to leave if they are being disruptive to their day to day business. And in most states that is the way the concealed carry laws work. However there are states like Tennessee were the business are off limits completely and that could essentially dissolves concealed carry if everyone did it. I know i mentioned that in an earlier post but the Brady's know they cant win in congress so they are trying to scare business into taking our rights.

A properly concealed weapon in no way disrupts a business or their customers so why would a business have any reason to want to ban concealed carry if not to disrupt our day to day practices based on what they thing WE should do. I see it as nothing different than discrimination based on race. Only this time its we don't want people that own guns in our stores.

I think those business are just caught up in the trap of the anti-gun media. I think the business have good intentions. The Brady's have convinced them that a sign will prevent violence from occurring in their store, and who wouldn't want that.

What that means is to me is we need to get the law changed in the states like Tennessee so that we can still carry in those places provided we are not disrupting their business. We also need to take steps to change the minds of the business by telling them we wont shop in their stores because of the negative affects of a complete ban and teaching them that they have been lied to by the Brady's and other anti gun groups.

Just to reiterate i do think a business has the right to set policies to ensure someone isn't disruptive. However a properly concealed weapon is not disruptive so I don't think they have the right to tell me i cant do something when it doesn't interfere with their business.


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## Charlie

On a side note........anyone interested in an anti-verizon website might want to look at www.verizonsux.com . :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082


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## Mr. P

scooter said:


> But it DOES violate the pre-emption law,at least a far as Im concerned,the state says no changing the rules from ours and then a company does,private or not ,and no matter what legalese you spin it into, it violates the pre-emption law,but then who pays attention to laws?? certainly not our own Govt.
> and that line of thought can be spun over to immigration ....company policy says its ok to hire them so the LAW dont matter simply because they're private????


Believe me, I am not trying to spin anything.
Company policy is not law, so preemption law is not an issue.
In addition preemption law applies to federal and state law not private business.
If it could be applied to companies you know the NRA would be all over it.


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## Mr. P

jpruett79 said:


> As it concerns a private business rights. I do believe business owners should have the right to ask someone to leave if they are being disruptive to their day to day business. And in most states that is the way the concealed carry laws work. However there are states like Tennessee were the business are off limits completely and that could essentially dissolves concealed carry if everyone did it. I know i mentioned that in an earlier post but the Brady's know they cant win in congress so they are trying to scare business into taking our rights.
> 
> A properly concealed weapon in no way disrupts a business or their customers so why would a business have any reason to want to ban concealed carry if not to disrupt our day to day practices based on what they thing WE should do. * I see it as nothing different than discrimination based on race. Only this time its we don't want people that own guns in our stores.
> *
> I think those business are just caught up in the trap of the anti-gun media. I think the business have good intentions. The Brady's have convinced them that a sign will prevent violence from occurring in their store, and who wouldn't want that.
> 
> What that means is to me is we need to get the law changed in the states like Tennessee so that we can still carry in those places provided we are not disrupting their business. We also need to take steps to change the minds of the business by telling them we wont shop in their stores because of the negative affects of a complete ban and teaching them that they have been lied to by the Brady's and other anti gun groups.
> 
> Just to reiterate i do think a business has the right to set policies to ensure someone isn't disruptive. However a properly concealed weapon is not disruptive so I don't think they have the right to tell me i cant do something when it doesn't interfere with their business.


Well that's NOT what they're saying. They're saying "No guns" in the store. Not "No gun owners" in the store.
You've no doubt seen signs in restaurants that say "No Shit No Shoes No service"?
Do you feel the same about that?

As far as Tennessee, that seems like a State issue. Georgia has restrictions too, a lot of em.


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## john doe.

Mr. P said:


> I agree that that a total NO GUN policy places everyone at risk. I hope they have some sort of security. But like I said before, an employee policy is one thing, a ban is something else.
> 
> I support the right of a private business to set their own policy, whether I agree or not, and there are many I don't agree with.


The problem I saw in this current situation was not pertaining to the employees but to customers who were not allowed to enter the Verizon store with a gun (the no gun sign).


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## Mr. P

tnoisaw said:


> The problem I saw in this current situation was not pertaining to the employees but to customers who were not allowed to enter the Verizon store with a gun (the no gun sign).


I know and I don't agree with such a policy for "licensed" carriers.
Like I said early on, I think it's an attempt to avoid liability on their part.
Then again this seems to be just one store. No one has posted they have seen these signs anywhere else.

Then on the other hand it is NOT LAW and all they can do is ask you to leave. Of course if you don't then you may have a problem. I doubt anyone would ever see a ccw.


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## john doe.

I too have wondered about that sign since it seems to be an isolated incident but their written policy states otherwise. If they have a written policy against it then why is it not posted on every store? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Mr. P

tnoisaw said:


> I too have wondered about that sign since it seems to be an isolated incident but their written policy states otherwise. If they have a written policy against it then why is it not posted on every store? Inquiring minds want to know.


Their policy as I posted was "employee" policy.

Although it did state if you saw a gun call security.

Honestly, I don't think this is that big a deal.


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