# Failure to extract/eject in brand new LTT 92g compact



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

Bought a brand new Ltt 92g elite compact. Went to the range and it performed perfectly with critical defense hornady, 124 fmj win and 115 federal for 300 rounds. Cleaned/lubed and carried it for a few weeks. Swapped the bobbed hammer for the elite skel hammer and put in a new std power Wolff recoil spring. Went back to range and used up some old +p high dollar ammo(4 mags) then switched to 115 federal cheapo and started having problems with all three mecgar mags. The slide wasn't coming far enough back to throw the spent shell out. This was very embarrassing as I had been bragging on my 92s to my cousin whose hk usp9 expert ran flawlessly on the 115 even though it hasn't been cleaned properly in 1500 rounds and it was so dry it was squeaking. I pulled mine apart and the slide did seem dry and everthing was dirty 200 rounds in but I've never had a Beretta run this poorly even several hundred rounds into a session. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

So, it was running well initially with all of the Langdon parts. (Sear and hammer interacting surfaces are polished and stoned to work optimally together).

Dropped In another hammer. Was this another Langdon part? If not, did the hammer surfaces get polished and stoned first?

Did you test fire at this point before swapping recoil springs? This might help in figuring out if the hammer or the recoil spring is the bigger issue.

You could try putting the original recoil spring in and try again.

It becomes a process of eliminating variables.

Tuned guns are usually tuned with the parts supplied working together in mind.
Actually, the same applies to factory guns.

Recoil springs and hammer mainsprings work together in managing slide cycling rates. My best guess would be the recoil spring swap is the bigger part of your issue, and more so than the hammer, though hammer mass and drag has a minor role as well.

Other factors to consider:
-Ammo can be an issue especially early in a pistols round count, because real break-in (higher round count) does seem to improve ammo sensitivity issues.
-during install of the hammer was a Generous amount of lube used on hammer strut and the hammer gliding surfaces?
-Give Langdon a call or contact them through e-mail. He knows his guns that he built, and he knows the Beretta platform. He can offer things for you to try or may have you sent the pistol to him to troubleshoot. Since you swapped some parts my guess would be that he would tell you to put the LTT parts back in and run the pistol for a while And see if that doesn’t fix the reliability problem. If you still want a different hammer, they would probably work with you to fit it for optimum performance.
-they will probably want to know what weight spring you swapped to so, I would have that info ready.

Good luck. I’ve had exactly one Beretta with a minor issue (burr on and extractor hook that compromised Feeding. Other than that, thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds have been sent downrange, including a 2,000 round period of no cleaning with one of them.


----------



## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

An additional consideration:

we on the forum have no idea about your shooting experience, what other handgun platforms you are accustomed to, etc. in the first 1,000 rounds with a new platform it is possible to encounter unintended slide or control contact, from hand position/grip.

Imknow when I have not shot my Sigs for awhile and go back to them and the slide continuously fails to lock open on the last round, that it is my grip, preventing the slide lock from traveling upward to engage the notch in the slide.

Similarly, when I went back to my Beretta after shooting Glocks for a long time, my high thumb grip was occasionally rubbing the slide, slowing it down. This was a software problem and not a Hardware problem, so I did not attribute he problem to the firearm.

Just another thought.


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

SSGN_Doc said:


> So, it was running well initially with all of the Langdon parts. (Sear and hammer interacting surfaces are polished and stoned to work optimally together).
> 
> Dropped In another hammer. Was this another Langdon part? If not, did the hammer surfaces get polished and stoned first?
> 
> ...


This gun is a Beretta LTT not a Langdon assembled Beretta. I have tried the original recoil spring, 6 different mags, and 5 different types of ammo from 115 target all the way up to 147 critical. All the parts are from. I got it to run smooth by generously lubing the extractor so it's somewhere right around there. I'm putting in a new extractor and a stronger Wilson Combat extractor spring. We will see...


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

* from beretta


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Man, it is the Federal ammo. I have owned 28 Beretta 92 variants over 25+ years. On about 10 of them at different times.. I'd get this. Once every 250-500 rounds, I'd get a failure to extract the casing... And, the new round would try to load... The gun would be jammed.

It was maddening when it was a self defense gun. Then. I'd rush to put 1000 trouble free rounds thru the gun before I'd trust it again.

It happened on MULTIPLE Berettas. It was so, so frustrating. Especially when I see some who claim to never have had a problem with a Beretta for 10-15 years of serious round counts...

I posted about it a few times on the Beretta Forum. Then, someone else started talking about it too...

The rims on the cases of that red box Federal that WalMart used to sell apparently has a wide degree of variation. Not all of the casings were in spec. Someone on that forum measured a lot of rounds. And, the variation varied greatly from case to case.

And, I will say... As soon as I stopped using that red box Federal, it NEVER happened again.

WalMart doesn't sell pistol ammo anymore. But, I won't buy any Federal FMJ rounds for target practice after those years of enduring this headache. And, it's never been a problem since then. I will use Federal self defense rounds, but not FMJ rounds.

So, in your case. Try some different target ammo. Otherwise, it will keep happening over time. Even if I could sometimes make it 1000 rounds w/o a problem - it WOULD still eventually happen... And this was on multiple Beretta 92 models. Strangely enough - it never happened on any other gun but a Beretta 92 variant.

But, after dealing with this problem for years before I figured it out about 4 or 5 years ago - I no longer buy ANY variation of Federal target ammo


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

Thanks for the help man. I tried 5 different types of ammo all the way up to 147 self defense and kept having the problem. I brought it to where I bought it and they test fired a mag with no problem(of course!!) And then put in a new extractor with a stronger Wilson Combat spring. They stoned/fitted/polished it and polished the chamber and ran 10 rounds of federal through it with no problem. They said they would be happy to cut me a check for it on the spot but I said no.I think I'll keep my Ltt Beretta especially since I have put so much work/time/$$ into it. Won't know for sure until I go to the range again but I think I got it licked. We shall see.


----------



## denner12 (Oct 14, 2017)

"new std power Wolff recoil spring."

When you say standard power, you are saying a 14 pound spring?. What spring did you have in it when it ran properly? Sounds to me you have too much spring for those 115 grain federal rounds.


----------



## fadlirya (Oct 31, 2019)

Shipwreck said:


> Man, it is the Federal ammo. I have owned 28 Beretta 92 variants over 25+ years. On about 10 of them at different times.. I'd get this. Once every 250-500 rounds, I'd get a failure to extract the casing... And, the new round would try to load... The gun would be jammed.
> 
> It was maddening when it was a self defense gun. Then. I'd rush to put 1000 trouble free rounds thru the gun before I'd trust it again.
> 
> ...


+1


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

denner12 said:


> "new std power Wolff recoil spring."
> 
> When you say standard power, you are saying a 14 pound spring?. What spring did you have in it when it ran properly? Sounds to me you have too much spring for those 115 grain federal rounds.


I had a stock spring which I put back in and it kept doing it. I may have this figured out. I bought a "Beretta" inox slide release lever and takedown lever/button which I installed after my first range trip when it ran like a sewing machine. I noticed that the slide felt like it was sticking somewhere on the way back sometimes after installation. I removed them yday and went back to stock. The takedown button had swollen and deformed (counterfit) (causing the sticking)and the slide release lever sticks out 2mm longer than stock( enough to affect the position of the bullet about to be fed and possibly the the spent shell). I haven't fired it yet but I'm pretty sure I got it. I know better than to put parts in my gun that don't come out of a Beretta/LTT/Wilson Combat box. At this point there is nothing in this gun that didn't come from those 3. I feel like an idiot and I will be eating some humble pie when I go back to the gun store to thank them for immediately offering to buy it back(no thanks!) and being helpful. Sure am glad I was nice or I'd never be able to show my face there again!


----------



## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Yeah, that could do it. Even some factory slide stops require some fitting to adjust the length of the magazine engagement tab, in order to make contact with the shelf of the magazine follower without contacting bullets in the mag. Not required as often on Berettas but a pretty regular requirement on 1911s when changing slide stops.


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

SSGN_Doc said:


> An additional consideration:
> 
> we on the forum have no idea about your shooting experience, what other handgun platforms you are accustomed to, etc. in the first 1,000 rounds with a new platform it is possible to encounter unintended slide or control contact, from hand position/grip.
> 
> ...


I have been shooting 92s for 20 years and exclusively for the past 10. This doesn't happen when I shoot my other 92s and it did happen when another person shot this gun. I have put in work eliminating variables (mags/ammo/user error) and I've come down to two possible likely causes. Sub par "beretta" parts(slide release and takedown lever) and a bad extractor and or spring. The extractor spring is a new WC and all the slide release and takedown lever that were "new from Beretta but not in box" are in the trash. Since I didn't have the problem b4 I started f'ing with stuff to make it look good I think I got it. The only moving part that wasn't in this gun when I got is the hammer which I bought from Beretta and new springs.....Ill know soon.


----------



## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Usafammo3 said:


> I have been shooting 92s for 20 years and exclusively for the past 10. This doesn't happen when I shoot my other 92s and it did happen when another person shot this gun. I have put in work eliminating variables (mags/ammo/user error) and I've come down to two possible likely causes. Sub par "beretta" parts(slide release and takedown lever) and a bad extractor and or spring. The extractor spring is a new WC and all the slide release and takedown lever that were "new from Beretta but not in box" are in the trash. Since I didn't have the problem b4 I started f'ing with stuff to make it look good I think I got it. The only moving part that wasn't in this gun when I got is the hammer which I bought from Beretta and new springs.....Ill know soon.


Been there when trying to customize a 1911. I bought several parts and installed them in a single weekend. Pistol had run like a champ before I installed the parts. Next range session was full of disappointment. My slide stop cause many of the same problems you describe. Hammer was dropping to half-cock after first shot.

I pulled all the parts and spent a month installing them one part at a time, making adjustments and eliminating variables.

I've been luckier with Berettas, but also learned my lesson from the 1911. I tend to only change one thing at a time, but I did violate that method recently with my Px4 Compact by installing the LTT trigger job in a bag and the Optimized Performance Trigger bar. Fortunately no problems, and made good improvements in the trigger.

Hope you have it all sorted on your LTT Elite. I fondled one at a local shop (LTT built version) next to a Wilson. Was super impressed with both. Make my plain old 92FS seem boring.


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

SSGN_Doc said:


> Been there when trying to customize a 1911. I bought several parts and installed them in a single weekend. Pistol had run like a champ before I installed the parts. Next range session was full of disappointment. My slide stop cause many of the same problems you describe. Hammer was dropping to half-cock after first shot.
> 
> I pulled all the parts and spent a month installing them one part at a time, making adjustments and eliminating variables.
> 
> ...


My plain old black 92fs is the most reliable, accurate factiry gun I've ever owned. This one ran like a sewing machine until I worked my "magic" on it. I broke the "one thing at a time" rule out of excitement with this gun and now I'm paying for it. My buddy


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

I went back to the stock slide stop with a new spring, stock takedown button and put in a +p extractor spring.....she runs like a dream- through 300 rounds of 3 types ammo. Could have been several things but the point is I trust her now. My dad told me to stop f'ing with my guns if I wanted them to run right but solving these problems and having a greater understanding of what I trust my life to is worth it. If I wanted a gun that would run forever with minimal maintenance but couldn't be customized, I'd have an HK usp9 compact. Come to think of it, the only reason I don't have one sitting in my safe is because I can't afford it right now. Watching a gun go for over 1,500 rounds without oil make me a believer in UK. Someday....


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

*HK


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

SSGN_Doc said:


> Been there when trying to customize a 1911. I bought several parts and installed them in a single weekend. Pistol had run like a champ before I installed the parts. Next range session was full of disappointment. My slide stop cause many of the same problems you describe. Hammer was dropping to half-cock after first shot.
> 
> I pulled all the parts and spent a month installing them one part at a time, making adjustments and eliminating variables.
> 
> ...


My plain old black 92fs is the most reliable, accurate factory gun I've ever owned. This one ran like a sewing machine until I worked my "magic" on it. I broke the "one thing at a time" rule out of excitement with this gun and I paid for it. Went back to range with a new +p WC extractor spring and no B.S. parts just now and it ate 300 rounds of 3 types of cheap ammo and 2 boxes of Winchester punch 147 like a dream....satisfaction! And more importantly-trust/confidence in the gun that will protect my family if the need arises.(God forbid!)


----------



## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

I Haven’t done a 2,000 round challenge with my 92FS, but I have run my Px4 compact for 2k without cleaning it with no problems. Pretty sure my 92 would be up to it as well. The Px4 is what I carry though.


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

I almost bought the px4 carry for a great price with no tax on the AAFES website but they were out when I logged back in. I went with the 92g Eilte compact LTT instead. I already had spare 92 parts and holsters and know the 92 so well-and the LTT version is as good as it gets for 92s without having a full custom gun built. I've heard that the px4 is great shooting gun out of the box and the rotary barrel really keeps it flat. There's also lots of DIY upgrades for it that are easy. Ltt sells some cool stuff for it too. Enjoy it!


----------



## Dubar (Sep 8, 2019)

Usafammo3 said:


> My dad told me to stop f'ing with my guns if I wanted them to run right but solving these problems


BINGO!!! I'm trying to come up with some sage advice to add to that but that sez it all.

I shoot all my guns before I start fooling with them. About the only gun I've extensively modified is my KelTec Sub2000 and that was only to get rid of the polymer feed ramp, trigger, trigger guard, but even that I had close to 1000rnds thru before I opened it up.

And lube them good. I had 2 pistols that were giving my trouble, thought I was limp wristing them but turned out they needed some grease on a couple of spots wear sliding surfaces touch. Put 200 rnds thru my Bersa thunder 22 yesterday without a hiccup, the other was a GSG Firefly. I also have a Mosin that was a PITA to operate the bolt on but after applying some grease on mating surfaces it is now a breeze to operate. Just don't put it down the bore or goop it up with the stuff.


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

Milspec grease on the rails/locking block. CLP everywhere else. A bore cleaning patch before I run a boresnake followed by light coat of CLP in the barrel is how I do all mine and they run happy and smooth unless I start "fixing" stuff.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I have used Breakfree CLP for over 20 years. Nothing else. Berettas like to be wet. I've never had a need for grease, personally.


----------



## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Shipwreck said:


> I have used Breakfree CLP for over 20 years. Nothing else. Berettas like to be wet. I've never had a need for grease, personally.


Grease can be good on camming surfaces I like to put a little in the groove where the locking block pivots and in the hammer where the strut rides. CLP everywhere else.

Tend to run things closer to dry in sandy or really dusty conditions, because the oil and grease tend to just hold the dirt and turn it into paste.


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

Mine have/will run fine on CLP only. I use the grease because several people with way more 92 trigger time than me have told me that they last longer and run better over time with it. I can't prove or disprove that assertion but I know that there is no substitute for experience so I listen to people who have exponentially more than me.


----------



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Everyone has their preferences. I've owned 28 of them over 25+ years. I'm sticking with what I know


----------



## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

Shipwreck said:


> Everyone has their preferences. I've owned 28 of them over 25+ years. I'm sticking with what I know


If you like it and(more importantly) trust them that way, then do it that way. It irritates me to no end when people 20 years younger than me with less experience than me try to tell me I should it this way or that way and I'm wrong. I never tell anyone that they should do it my way unless I see someone is blatantly violating safety rules or endangering others at the range. I'm sure you know what I mean!


----------

