# Systema 27 Tight Chamber



## UncleJaque (Oct 25, 2014)

*I have a Systema 27 Argentine - essentially a contract built M-1911A-1.

Although well worn and I had to replace the damaged sights, it is a well made and accurate pistol.

...............

Used to carry it on my CWP but it started choking on reloads and factory ammunition. Rounds often jam in the chamber about 1/16" before the slide can fully go into battery and lock up, which is unacceptable for a defense sidearm.

It will only feed and function reliably with G.I. issue hardball ammunition, which I consider adequate for most uses but I would like to carry JHPs and use cast reloads for practice. 
Even when I run my loaded rounds up through a carbide sizing die to swage them down, they still choke in that chamber.

Someone told me that I could send it in to KIMBER and they would tune it right up for me for a nominal fee, but when I went to the Kimber web site they do not seem to offer gunsmithing services - at least not for any other guns besides their own products.

At one point I did a lot of my own gunsmithing, but re chambering a barrel is a little beyond my skill level. 
I don't want to replace the barrel as the issue one is in good shape and quite accurate for a service pistol.

We have a few local Gunsmiths, but I was hoping to take it to someone who specializes in Old Slabsides.

Any suggestions?
*


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Are the ball rounds slipping right in or are they snug but go? I wouldn't expect the barrel to be short chambered or match tight like aftermarket barrels, but I can see the leade being tight for any different profile over 230 RN. My first thought is a finish reamer needs to make a little more clearance in the leade without opening up the headspace. If any of your local smithes are good and have the reamer it should be a quick fix.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Try using a taper-crimp die on your reloads.
That will help them run into the chamber, if the problem is a tight chamber.

I also suggest that you, or a gunsmith, gently apply a "GO" headspace gauge, to see if the chamber is just a little short.

The problem more likely is that your reloads are stretched, the cases are a bit too long, and they need to be trimmed to minimum or optimum specifications. It's easy to check this visually, either with a gauge or side-by-side with a new, unfired round.
The problem may be that the pistol's chamber is a little too big, probably in circumference, and stretches the brass. When you re-size it, the sizing die changes that oversize quality from diametrical to lengthwise.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Good call Steve, I didn't think about the reloads and the crimp. Crimp is a loose term because you don't crimp auto brass, you're really just straightening the flare back out. Set your crimp die to put the mouth back to .469-.471, .471 being max and sometimes it's too large. Don't actually crimp the case into the bullet, it upsets it and starts killing accuracy.

Also, are you seating and crimping in the same die? It's hard to get them dialed in perfect and with lead you can plow lead in the last couple thou of seating. If this happens you can have a long case in effect. I crimp in a separate die personally, adjustment is easier and it doesn't add much time to do it. Mike some of your cases but I've never run into a long 45acp, they normally shrink in time as opposed to bottleneck cases that do lengthen.

If you still have the problem reloads and HPs, sharpie up the bullet and case mouth, drop it in the barrel and push, remove and look for marks. If it's the case mouth you're shaving lead, brass is long or it's oddly short chambered. I forsee bullet marks meaning it's bottoming in the leade. Not unheard of considering these were chambered for military ball and HP and cast can have different ogive profiles from the std military profile.


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## UncleJaque (Oct 25, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Try using a taper-crimp die on your reloads.


I did that. Even ran some of my reloads through a carbide full length resizing die, but even that didn't help.



> I also suggest that you, or a gunsmith, gently apply a "GO" headspace gauge, to see if the chamber is just a little short.


Good idea; I don't have one but can probably find a 'Smith who does. Worth a check anyway.



> The problem more likely is that your reloads are stretched, the cases are a bit too long, and they need to be trimmed to minimum or optimum specifications.


I do check my case length and trim as required, so I don't think that's it. 
Also, fresh factory rounds such as Federal Lawman JHP hang up too, and I assume that those are built to standard specs.

Methinks Rex might be on to something; the JHPs or my lead SWC bullets might be hanging on the leade. 
I know that for optimum accuracy you don't want your bullet to have to jump very far in order to engage the rifling, and extending it might not do much for hardball accuracy, but the tradeoff could be better feeding of alternative varieties of ammo.

Somebody suggested that my link (replaced as the issue one was pretty beat up) might be too long, but I don't think it is as it feeds HB so well. Don't think it's extractor either, or that would effect the milspec rounds as well.

I tweaked and tuned my locking lugs and feed ramps and did the same to a buddy's Commander:

....

....


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## UncleJaque (Oct 25, 2014)

Some of the rounds that I wish would chamber more reliably:


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Copy n paste 

Ah! The oft-misunderstood link. Due to some misconceptions
about that simple little machine, I'll watch this one for a while
to get some input.

One thing that I will say is that the link is NOT supposed to
put the barrel into vertical lock, though many ill-informed
tinkerers install a longer link in hopes of enhancing accuracy
with a better vertical lockup. While a long link will often remove 
vertical barrel play, it won't help the accuracy,and as often as not,
will actually make it worse. In fact, when the barrel is in vertical lock and the slide in battery, the link should be under no load at all. If the link
bears the load of vertical lockup, the condition can do damage if allowed
to remain for very long. Depending on how MUCH of a load that it bears,
and how long it delays barrel linkdown, the damage can be done in as little as 100 rounds.


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## UncleJaque (Oct 25, 2014)

pic said:


> Ah! The oft-misunderstood link. ...the damage can be done in as little as 100 rounds.


Thanks pic; very interesting.

What kind of damage to which components are we talking about here?

How does one go about checking for said dangerous condition / excessive link length?


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

The slide stop can break. To check it pop your slide stop out a little and let it hang down after pushing it back in and with the gun in battery try swinging the hanging lever. A little resistance is normal because the lower lugs SHOULD be riding the pin (a lot don't) but it shouldn't have a lot of pressure on it.


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## UncleJaque (Oct 25, 2014)

*VEEEEeeeeelly EEEnterestingk, rex - Thanks again.

*


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I


UncleJaque said:


> Thanks pic; very interesting.
> 
> What kind of damage to which components are we talking about here?
> 
> How does one go about checking for said dangerous condition / excessive link length?


My thinking is the older, very nice piece you possess could have had plenty of play, which is not a bad thing. But putting in a longer link might have changed the angle just enough to create a new feed angle, maybe the reasoning why only hardball feeds well (more forgiving)
My question would be how long ago did you change the barrel link?

My expertise with 1911 is limited compared to REX, Steve, and VaMarine and yourself.
But I do have a deep background as a machinist, I'm just visualizing the effects.
Sorry if I'm way off base here. Good luck
Pic


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Pic is right. The barrel should stop at the top rear of the lower lugs against the frames verticle impact surface (VIS) and should just rest on the frame's barrel bed, but if you long link it the barrel can sit above the bed causing a gap between the ramps. The rear of the barrel ramp also needs to be about ,030 forward of the frame ramp for reliable feeding.

Depending on the shape of the VIS and lower lugs along with how long it's linked, there's a possibility the lower 1/2 of the lower lugs can impact the VIS. Whenever the lug impact goes below the top of the lugs it puts undue pressure on them and will eventually shear the lower lugs off the barrel. Some 1911s even come from the factory with the impact too low. When Remington started making them they had a run where they overcut the corner of the VIS and bed and I saw 6 or 7 examples of them, one did shear the lugs off fairly quickly if I recall correctly.


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