# Ammunition For Tactical Training Course



## Ron (Oct 2, 2006)

I plan on taking a two day tactical training class early March, and was told that I will need 2,000 rounds of ammunition (I know that it sounds like a lot but that is what I was told). I plan on hopefully having my P99cA/S long before then and using it for the course.

My questions are what kind of ammunition shoud I buy in terms of cost and reliability of function in the gun, and where is the best place to buy? I have no experience buying practice ammunition because the ranges in my area where I shoot all require you to buy ammo from them.

Also, I think that night sights will be helpful. Are they available for the P99c, and, if so, where?

Thanks.

Ron


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## rogue007 (Jan 8, 2007)

WinchesterWhiteBox 115gr.

Go to Wal-Mart and buy it for $260 for 2K rds, any range you go to that says you must buy their bullets..........go to another range or make friends with someone with land.


The reason why I practice alot is because I can afford to shoot with target ammo, go to wally world and start shooting cheaper.


Each box is around $12.98 per 100rds...............$259.80 not including tax for 2000rds.........


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I used to shoot Whinchester WHite Box purchased from Wal-Mart - But for most of 2006, I started shooting CCI Blazer exclusively. EVEREY once in a while, U'll get a bad round from the WWB. I got 2 under powered rounds in the same box - irritated me because I was shooting a new gun (and ya wanna test the reliability of a new gun).

If U have an Academy Sports Store in your area (they are a chain, and are in certain states), Blazer is the cheapest ammo U can buy, and it works very well. I pay $5.69 for it per box). If ya gotta order it thru the net or buy it someplace else, it will be more expensive (Academy is the cheapest I have seen). Buying the Blazer anywhere else but Academy makes the price higher than what the WWB would cost U at Wal-Mart.

I guess buy the WWB if that's your only option. I used it for years, and itw as only recently that I had an issue.

As for night sights - U must decide if U want Mepro light or Trijicon. Just go to Google and type in P99 night sights, or P99c night sights. U will find many links to places U can buy. Compare, and look for the cheapest. Ya may wanna ask and make sure that the dealers are good, though.

Midway USA is a top flight order company. Maybe check their site and see if they have them.

It SHOULD be the same sights for the fullsize as for the compact, but for whatever reason, they make a package for both. That being the case, I guess order the ones for the compact just to be safe. Also - 1 thing to point out. The night sights should be equal to the #4 front sight. If ya had to change to another number (like I had to do on my SW99), then ya might have an issue. If U still have the #4, then U will be ok.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Here are some links for the night sights... Seems I couldn't find them on MIdway USA...

And, while they don't list P99c specifically, it is the same exact sights used for the fullsize and compact guns... (I think only Meprolight made different packages for the compact - I believe that Trijicon only makes them for the P99 - but it will also fit the P99c)

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6844&title=DAY/NIGHT+SIGHTS

http://www.opticsplanet.net/trijicon-night-sight-set-for-walther-p99-wp01.html

http://www.nightvisionsales.com/index.php/cPath/206_332

http://cgi.ebay.com/Meprolight-Trit...ryZ36258QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Meprolight-Nigh...ryZ36258QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Trijicon-Night-...ryZ66827QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


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## merc308 (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron

Does the class you are going to make any requirements on ammo?

A lot of ranges these days are going to lead free ammunition. Places like Thunder Ranch etc.


My range is right on the same property I live on so I myself am researching the best place to start buying lead free ammo for practice.

I would recommend myself that you buy several boxes of different brands and bullet weight ammo and try them before buying 2000 rounds of anything.

After trying several brands then you can weigh costs vs performance in your particular handgun.

Rogue, don't be so quick to judge ranges that require you shoot their ammo,
sometimes it has to do with the insurance carrier they are with or environmental requirements etc.
Just because they require you shoot thier ammo doesn't mean they are trying to gouge you on prices.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Any place I have been that REQUIRES you to shoot their ammo does hose U on the price.... Just my experience...

But, good idea to try different brands and see what ya like...


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## Ron (Oct 2, 2006)

merc308 said:


> Ron
> 
> Does the class you are going to make any requirements on ammo?
> 
> ...


I don't believe they make any requirement, but good point. I will check. Also. good point about trying different brands before I buy the 2,000 rounds and go to the class. Thanks.

Ron


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## Ron (Oct 2, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> I used to shoot Whinchester WHite Box purchased from Wal-Mart - But for most of 2006, I started shooting CCI Blazer exclusively. EVEREY once in a while, U'll get a bad round from the WWB. I got 2 under powered rounds in the same box - irritated me because I was shooting a new gun (and ya wanna test the reliability of a new gun).
> 
> If U have an Academy Sports Store in your area (they are a chain, and are in certain states), Blazer is the cheapest ammo U can buy, and it works very well. I pay $5.69 for it per box). If ya gotta order it thru the net or buy it someplace else, it will be more expensive (Academy is the cheapest I have seen). Buying the Blazer anywhere else but Academy makes the price higher than what the WWB would cost U at Wal-Mart.
> 
> ...


What is the difference between Mepro Light and Trijicon? Is there a reason that I might want one over the other? Unfortunately, I don't have an Academy Sports Store in my area, so I guess that I will start out trying the WWB, and if I like it will go with that to take to my class.

Ron


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Ron said:


> What is the difference between Mepro Light and Trijicon? Is there a reason that I might want one over the other? Unfortunately, I don't have an Academy Sports Store in my area, so I guess that I will start out trying the WWB, and if I like it will go with that to take to my class.
> 
> Ron


There is a slight difference between the 2 - The Trijicon have white circles on the outside of the sight - painted around the vials. The meprolights have white circles INSIDE of the vial area - so, it doesn't wear off.

One thing I have noticed about all the people talking about P99 night sights over the years... The Merpos sometimes install easily - and some take some work. I have seen some people state that they had to file away part of the bottom of the rear sight to make it fit... So, its kinda hit and miss. U may still want a smith to install it for ya.

Also, the front sights do use a screw - but unfortunately, not the same as the stock sights. Some people get tweezers to work. Some buy a Glock front sight tool - which apparently works as well.

Uncut can tell U - but the Trijicons may entail less work? Not sure...


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## rogue007 (Jan 8, 2007)

In about maybe 5-7000rds of WWB I have had fired............only 4-5 didnt fire because of bad primers and no under-powered rds whatsoever, maybe a bad lot you had shipwreck..............




My mother is the front-end manager at wally world here in my area, so I get a 10% discount on aything at the place....:smt023 



I will pick up a box of CCI blazer in 9MM to try out, but I didnt have luck with it in my 1911's though.

Shipwreck, where you at in Texas?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm in College Station. Liked in N ARlington in 2003 for 8 months, and been to McKinney a couple of times to visit friends...

I stick with the CCI Blazer now ALL the time because of the price, and I have not had any issues w/ it. I also find it cleaner.


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## rogue007 (Jan 8, 2007)

I would like to see CCI and WWB ran next to eachother, and see which is cleaner....:smt071 




I like using brass cases, but you never know.......I might like CCI better.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, most Blazer users here will agree that its cleaner than WWB. WWB makes my gun very dirty in just a few shots.


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## LegionnaireZ (Oct 22, 2006)

agreed... when i first bought, my P99 i bought a box of WWB and found that it left heavy residue at the muzzle and partially at the polymer piece at the front also... very dirty but since i haven't shot as much a variety of ammo... i thought that was normal...


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## merc308 (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron

XS sights also makes tritium sights, I had some installed on a Sig p226 I used to carry. I was very happy with them, the big dot style really helps you acquire the front sight easy. For me personally the bar dot combination is easier and faster to line up when your adrenaline is pumping.

They make sights for the P99, my next p99 will have a set of them installed.

Right now I have Meprolights installed on two other handguns I own.
I use the orange/green combo (rear dots orange).

To me they also seem brighter than the trijicons but I have friends that swear by the trijicons too. One thing that was also a part of my decision between the two was I installed the Mepros myself, The trijicons needed some gunsmithing done to install.


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## jenglish (Dec 29, 2006)

Trijicons go on the P99 the same as the Meprolights. There is no gunsmithing needed, just a nut driver for the front sight.


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## merc308 (Nov 23, 2006)

hmmmm maybe the three colleagues I know just weren't comfortable installing their trijicons themselves. I do know they all sent their slides to the same place to have it done, because I remember listening to them bitch about how long it was taking to get their slides back..We finally had to take their coffee away for a few days til they got everything back.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

jenglish said:


> Trijicons go on the P99 the same as the Meprolights. There is no gunsmithing needed, just a nut driver for the front sight.


Well, I've seen more than 1 person online claim that they needed to do some filing to make the rear mepro sight fit...


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

merc308 said:


> Ron
> 
> XS sights also makes tritium sights, I had some installed on a Sig p226 I used to carry. I was very happy with them, the big dot style really helps you acquire the front sight easy. For me personally the bar dot combination is easier and faster to line up when your adrenaline is pumping.
> 
> ...


I saw the big dot sights on the Walther America page. But, I'd caution U to try these sights on someone else's gun before ya try it. The big dot sights are built for speed (bringing the gun on target faster), but aren't as precise as 3 dot sights for bullseye shooting.

I bought a 1911 w/ them, and I was super disappointed - I expected more - especially out of a 1911. I'd never try them again. But, I know other slove them.

I guess on a compact P99, they might not be so bad. Since its a small carry gun U wanna bring up on target quick. But, I wouldn't buy them.


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## merc308 (Nov 23, 2006)

I don't do bullseye shooting Ship, I'm more of a tactical guy.

I noticed someplace where you wrote you had your standard 3 dots on your p99. 

Do you carry this gun? At night?


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## Stachie (Dec 14, 2006)

I've had no problems using Remington UMC. However, it is as dirty as the previously mentioned brands.


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## merc308 (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron

If you don't mind me asking, what tactical training course are you taking?

The reason I ask is, depending on the style of shooting the instructor is going to be teaching, you might want to ask him about what night sights he uses.

If he has been shooting and teaching a long time I'd be willing to bet he's had at least 4 or 5 different brands of night sights while he was perfecting his own shooting.

Of course then you need to check if one of his sponsors is a sight manufacturer
also, that may cloud his judgement.


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## jenglish (Dec 29, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> Well, I've seen more than 1 person online claim that they needed to do some filing to make the rear mepro sight fit...


I have heard this also. Trijicons are machined out of solid steel, to exact specs. Meprolights are cast steel sights and I am sure they get one out of the factory every once in a while that is not to spec.

We decided on Meprolight sights for our new P99's at work and I installed all twenty sets myself. I did not have a single problem. They all went on as easy as my Trijicons.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

merc308 said:


> I don't do bullseye shooting Ship, I'm more of a tactical guy.
> 
> I noticed someplace where you wrote you had your standard 3 dots on your p99.
> 
> Do you carry this gun? At night?


Yes, I have standard sights on all 3 of my P99s... I only carry the compact.

I've had night sights on guns in the past - but I am satisfied with my stock sights. I haven't felt the need to change them out.


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## merc308 (Nov 23, 2006)

> Yes, I have standard sights on all 3 of my P99s... I only carry the compact.


Aren't you worried that if you ever had to shoot someone in the dark that if the shooting ever ended up in a courtroom you'd be raked over the coals by some lawyer?

Like Hackathorn and Ayoob always say, every bullet you fire has a lawyer attached to it.

Same reason I always carry a flashlight if I carry at night. That would be such an easy gotcha for almost any lawyer in a court especially a civil one.

oops a little off thread..sorry guys


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

No, I am not worried. Whether I shoot someone or not - me feeling the need to do so - having night sights won't affect the rightousness of the shoot.

I personally find the white dots visible in nearly any light. And, generally, there is some sort of light in MOST situations... U'd have to ID your target. Usually, if there is light for that, there is light on your gun.

And, for those quick shoots where ya barely get your gun out - all the people who have been involved in such shoots will tell ya that they never used the sights anyway. They bright the gun up and just pointed it in the direction of the bad gun. No time to lign up sights. So, I'm not worried about it.

I carried my Glock 26 for 8 years prior to getting my P99c. I didn't put nightsights on it until the last year I owned it - and then, they were screwed up by Glock when they put them on (the white circles aound the tritium were 1/2 smeared off). I'm satisified w/ the stock sights.

As for Ayoob - I don't always agree w/ everything he says - or to the extent he says it. He has come up a few times on the site. Not sure if a search of his name will bring up those threads or now (search doesn't always work perfectly)


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## Ron (Oct 2, 2006)

merc308 said:


> Ron
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what tactical training course are you taking?
> 
> ...


I don't mind at all. It is the intermediate tactical training course with Frank Garcia(Universal Shooting Academy) in Frostproof, Florida. Good idea. I will ask him. Although after your post I went back to his web page and reread the course description. He actually does not mention night shooting or night sights. It was my assumption based upon some other course web sites I had looked at before deciding on Frank's course.

Ron


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## Ron (Oct 2, 2006)

I want to thank all of you who responded to my post. Your comments have been very informative and quite helpful. I will try the different brands of ammo at the range before I decide which to buy and bring to the course.

Shipwreck, when you say you have the "standard sights" I assume you mean the sights that will come with my P99c? Is this correct? If so, then I think that, at least for the time being, I will stick with them, and see later on whether I feel that I need to get night sights.

Ron


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Ron said:


> Shipwreck, when you say you have the "standard sights" I assume you mean the sights that will come with my P99c? Is this correct? If so, then I think that, at least for the time being, I will stick with them, and see later on whether I feel that I need to get night sights.
> 
> Ron


Yes, the ones that come with the gun. I have them (the stock sights) on all 3 of my 99s, and I like them.

I shoot at a fairly dark indoor range - the range is dark enough to make it somewhat hard to see, but not dark enough for night sights to help. Whenever I've shot guns w/ night sights there, I tend not to shoot as well. I like large white dots. Its the easiest for me to see at that range. The bigger the white dot, the better.

Springfield 1911's with the Novak sights have crappy little dots that are hard to see. I like the basic white dot Novaks on the S&W 1911s. I also like the big white dots that HK puts on their USPs. And, I like the white dot sights that come w/ the P99 :smt023


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