# 165 gr less recoil than 180 gr



## NasHouston (Oct 15, 2015)

Hi guys,

So I've read some stuff and watched some youtube ballistics. Everyone says lighter bullet = more recoil. Well I purchased my first 40 cal, some different types of ammo and hit the range. I shot Winchester 165 FMJ, hornady critical defense 165 FTX (the kind with what looks like rubber in the tip) and federal 180 FMJ.

The 165 had less recoil. I know it can be subjective, but I mean like a lot less recoil. I asked the guy who worked there if he would fire my gun, he was surprised and he said the exact same thing. 

BTW the gun is a VP40.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2015)

Normally, I'd think 15 grains wouldn't make much difference in felt recoil. Perhaps the different powder charge makes a bigger difference?


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## NasHouston (Oct 15, 2015)

win231 said:


> Normally, I'd think 15 grains wouldn't make much difference in felt recoil. Perhaps the different powder charge makes a bigger difference?


I didn't think 15 grains would make a difference either.

*shrugs


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Much depends on the amount of powder in the casing and what kind and pressure. 

Not all 165's are equal and not all 180's are equal, but everything else being equal the heavier bullet should deliver more recoil, not the other way around.

We need some physic guru's to chime in. I've shot 147's milder than 124's and 115+P's, but I suppose what I perceived in recoil was the pressure/ powder charge more than just the weight of the projectile..and the fact you can get more powder in the casing with the lighter weight projectiles generally.

I know shooting my 300 Weatherby Magnum with Weatherby ammunition that 180's kick considerably more than 150's. On a side note, Weatherby loads them as hot as they can get them, so hold on.


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## NasHouston (Oct 15, 2015)

I don't know, but this has me taking back my opinions about a couple of 40 cal guns I've fired. The USP 40 shooting whatever cheap ammo my friend got from Walmart which had very little recoil and the Beretta 96 that I rented and shot with that same 180 federal which kicked like a mule


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## OldManMontgomery (Nov 2, 2013)

The heavier bullet will generate more recoil than a lighter IF the velocity is the same. 

Typically, in the same caliber and for the same purpose, a heavier bullet is a lower velocity than a lighter bullet. (Maximum pressure for each round is determined by the strength of the arm, not the weight of the bullet). Higher velocity with a lighter bullet can result in the recoil impulse being 'more abrupt' and the report harsher, which makes for a higher perceived recoil. 

For special - target for instance - purposes, a heavier bullet is loaded much slower and still achieve the purpose. The slower velocity of the bullet makes the recoil more drawn out, so the recoil impulse is spread over a longer time period. Usually this also results in a lower 'quieter' report. This generates less perceived recoil. 

When shooting a specific caliber, two arms of different weights will seem different. Typically a heavier arm makes for less recoil. However, the size and shape of the grips affect the perceived feeling of recoil. A wider shoulder against the palm and web of the hand will be gentler than a very thin grip against the hand. Rubber grips are usually more kinder in recoil than wood or hard plastic. (The stock in a rifle has similar effect.)


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

Picture a 6 pound rifle firing a 6 pound bullet. The energy, recoil, and velocity of the rifle and the bullet would be the same. Now imagine a 6 pound rifle firing a blank cartridge with only paper holding the powder charge. There would be only noise and effectively no felt recoil. Those are two extremes. The firing of a normal bullet places the actual bullet energy and felt recoil of the gun somewhere in between, depending on all the variables.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

I go with 180 as my Beretta 96a1 is more accurate with the heavier round. Recoil difference is minimal if even noticed to me, but nice shot placement is my deciding factor.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Too many variables with this assumption but suffice it to say that it is largely a matter of the specific loads in question. For example, the Speer God Dot 165 grain JHP, #53970 runs at a higher pressure that most 165 grain loads with 1150 fps muzzle velocity at 484 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. This load feels quite a bit stronger, and therefore generates more recoil, that a "standard pressure" 180 grain load.

With cartridge loads, nothing is really cast in stone anymore... not that it ever was.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

There are two principles involved maybe

1) For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Ref post #7.

2) Energy equals mass times the square of the velocity.

*If* item 1 can be applied directly to item 2, velocity affects recoil much more than weight does.


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## 1911crazy (Jul 16, 2015)

The heavier bullet takes more pressure to get it moving. This means more peak pressure build up after you pull the trigger. The lighter bullet moves out of the case / chamber much faster, less recoil. Unless it's loaded near max on the powder charge, it can have more recoil. The amount of gun powder can change the recoil.

When looking for that perfect sweet spot accurate load more gun powder isn't always a good choice. When I was younger with reloading the more flames and recoil the better. I was happy to hit in a 10" circle at 25 yards. I've mellowed out and tightened up my groups to a few inches. I can pinpoint small rocks on the 100 yard berm. Food for thought


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

hillman said:


> There are two principles involved maybe
> 
> 1) For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Ref post #7.
> 
> ...


If you have two projectiles, one heavier and one lighter, traveling at identical velocities, which would have more recoil?

If in every action there is an equal and opposite reaction I'd believe the heavier projectile would create more recoil, but of course it is only what I perceive as to the Weatherby mention in my earlier post.

180's and 200's traveling slower than the 150's in 300 Weatherby Magnum kick much less in my perception, or at least in what my shoulder perceives.:snipe:


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok guys; Energy = (M)xC,squared. 

What you feel is the ENERGY. Large bullet slow = small bullet FAST. Speed makes a bigger impact because it's value is SQUARED.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Spike12 said:


> Ok guys; Energy = (M)xC,squared.
> 
> What you feel is the ENERGY. Large bullet slow = small bullet FAST. Speed makes a bigger impact because it's value is SQUARED.


And....recoil(i.e. energy) is greater with a larger mass bullet than a lesser mass bullet traveling at the same speed.. or even less. Energy is the determining factor of recoil not speed in and of itself

460 Weatherby Magnum: 500 gr (32 g) FMJ 2,600 ft/s (790 m/s) 7,504 ft·lbf (10,174 J)

AR-15 .556 (62 gr) SS109 FMJBT 940 m/s (3,100 ft/s) 1,767 J (1,303 ft·lbf)

Tell me which would have more recoil depending on the speed of the projectile?

A 300 Weatherby Magnum 150grn projectile leaves the muzzle @ 3540fps 4173ft.lbf
A 300 Weatherby Magnum 180grn projectile leaves the muzzle @ 3250fps 4223ft.lbf

In my experience the 180 grn projectile has considerably more recoil than the 150grn projectile even though the 150grn projectile is moving 290fps faster.


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## just for fun (Dec 31, 2006)

Interesting post! Reload the 40 using both 165 and 180 grain bullets. Push Bullets to 1K with Winchester Auto-Comp. TO ME there doesn't seem to a nickels worth of difference.


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