# Colt 1903 Model M in .32 ACP



## Vodoun da Vinci

I inherited this pistol built in 1918....carried much and apparently shot a lot as well, it retains very little blue and has a lot of dings, scratches and a few pits. The bore looks very nice and the pistol had it's original magazine but cracked hard rubber grips. It's pretty typical for a 95 year old gun with hard rubber grips to have them dry out and crack and I have seen this phenomenon on lots of this type. I bought new grips and a couple mags and had the gun checked out by a respected smith here in town and it was pronounced safe to shoot. In fact he encouraged me to shoot this one as he seems fairly well taken with Colt autos especially the originals.










Shown here with my Wife's Colt Officers ACP for reference.

I took this 95 year old pistol and 2 boxes of ancient .32 ACP to the range and loaded her up and started shooting. The ammo was so old that the boxes were literally falling apart - old Winchester hardball. This pistol shocked and surprised me as it was a tack driver form the first mag of 8 rounds. Fired rapid fire (not panic but at a cadence that emptied the mag in less than 3 seconds) all 8 rounds were in a group that I could cover with the palm of my hand...about 4" across at about 21'. The pistol has tiny little sights but I didn't even look at them. This pistol is alike a sewing machine...it is ergonomic, comfortable, and very, very easy and has a feel in the hand that just oozes class and classic. Inherently accurate and more than fun to shoot.

I shot up both boxes of ancient hardball as well as another 50 rounds of FMJ flat nose Winchester round using the original and a reproduction mag purchased from Numrich. Never missed a lick...no FTF, no FTE, no problems. The pistol shoots where you look and it's like pointing your finger. I was so obsessed that a researched a bunch of Model M's in .32 ACP and purchased a second pistol built in 1930 for my Wife. Actually I see a few more of these in our future as I am truly in love with this fine piece of handgun art.

If you have the chance and are a fan of Colt automatics you should shoot one of these for reference. I own several modern autos including a Colt Officers ACP, A Beretta 92S 9mm, a Walther PPKS in .380, and have shot some of my "gun buddies" pistols and nothing has ever impressed me as much as a pair of 95 and 83 year old Colt Model M pistols. I'd appreciate it if other aficionados of this pistol would post pix in this thread.

Thanks in advance and thanks for looking!

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

The same gun, but in .380 ACP, is my own EDC.
I can affirm from personal experience all of your comments about reliability and accuracy.
Colt's made really well-designed guns.

My own Model M was made in 1912. Thus, it's more than 100 years old, and 26 years older than I am.

As others have noted, I wonder whether today's plastic wonder guns will still be delivering accuracy and reliability, 100 years from now.
(I tend to doubt it.)


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## Vodoun da Vinci

I cruised this forum before joining (re joining) and read a lot...I find it "interesting" that Steve is the first to respond to my madness about the Colt Model M's. Be they .32 ACP or .380 ACP they seem to have a special feel and *whatever* that is almost magic. I'm collecting Model M's and collecting information and opinion. I'm hatching a plan to recreate these pistols..modern 1903 Model M in .32, .380, and maybe 9mm with all the same ergonomics only in stainless or CeraKote trying to make a modern handgun for Concealed Carry that has all the aesthetics and ergonomics and yet is drop safe and has some more safety minded features.

This pistol is not like many people imagine and I did not want to like it...mouse gun caliber in an almost full sized pistol *but* unless we have shot one we cannot appreciate the concept. John Browning created a masterpiece with this pistol and the subsequent 1911 which is now legendary. I love both pistols but the 1903 Model M is *so* handy, rounded, and available as a carry piece. But this gun has so much going for it even 100 years after its design.

Seriously, with all states now having concealed carry I see a huge market for brand new 1903 Model Ms in .32 and .380 if I can get it done.

VooDoo


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## DJ Niner

I have long lusted after one of these pistols (.32 would be my preference, as I already shoot this caliber). I also think a modern version might do well in the market, if it could be sold and produced at a reasonable price and profit. Short-barreled models for pocket carry, longer ones for informal target shooting, maybe even a .22 version if it could be engineered to work in the existing envelope.

I don't have any money to invest in such an operation, but I'll be at the front of the line waving a handful of C-notes when the first shipment arrives, even if I have to "liquidate" another pistol or two to make it happen.

Good luck!


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## Steve M1911A1

"...drop safe"?
Please: No.
The Browning-designed thumb safety is quite enough, thank you.


Late-production versions of the Model M also included a magazine safety.
I consider this an abomination, as well.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

I'm not allowed to carry mine (yet) in Illinois but when I can I'll carry this pistol as it is round and can be hidden very well on my person. When carrying I'm concerned about an accidental discharge if the pistol was dropped - I have read the stories *but* I'm not sure I'm *that* worried about dropping my pistol. Sincerely, I usually put the "modernization" caveat in my introduction of the concept of making new Model Ms as it seems to bring a little more credibility to the discussion...lot's of folks start to scratch their heads when we talk about bringing a design that is over 100 years old to a modern market.

My second Model M has the magazine safety and I have to agree that I personally prefer the pistol to not have this feature - I would prevent me from firing while changing mags and with the way I personally handle firearms it does not make me any more "safe" than the 1918 that does not have the magazine disconnect.










Lots of folks simply do not remember or have never been aware that this gun, like the Colt 1911 (which is possibly the most copied pistol in history) was designed by a man who was simply a genius at designing firearms. Truthfully? I don't think this pistol needs many if *any* modifications to be extremely relevant as a concealed carry piece in the 21st century. It'd be nice to have a modern finish that will protect the gun or stainless *but* my biggest concern is that the ergonomics not be altered....the balance and point ability, control ability, conceal ability are perfect and I'd be worried that "playing" with things (like the existing safetys etc...) would alter these things.

If it ain't broke we don't need to fix it.

I'm just beginning the process of how we are gonna get new Model Ms built. I have machinists and engineers in my family advising me - I'm running the concept past a couple of custom pistol smiths and trying to get a handle on how much $ it will take to produce the CNC programs to produce the various parts and generally trying to wrap my head around the logistics and details. I acknowledge that it will be expensive...very expensive. But start up costs are justifiable if enough money can be made in pulling this off to sustain the "resurrection"...I have investors and some money of my own.

I just need to prove to my investors that this could be lucrative or is at least a worthy investment. All of the folks interested in investing are avid shooters and think the concept has merit. I just need to hammer out the details which I am doing.

I'm right here in the general area where some very fine pistols are already being made - we have Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms right here where I live!! I'm toying with the idea of presenting them with the concept and seeing if they are interested in building these if I front some money to kick start it. I'd like input from folks that I can use to push the idea - many folks just shake their heads and walk away when I start talking. Many who have the capability of helping me are resistant to the idea that a new release of Model Ms could sell hundreds, maybe thousands of these. I'm convinced it could be the coolest thing since the 1911 for some folks.

Thanks for listening to my madness...

VooDoo


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## DJ Niner

Steve M1911A1 said:


> "...drop safe"?
> Please: No.
> The Browning-designed thumb safety is quite enough, thank you.
> 
> Late-production versions of the Model M also included a magazine safety.
> I consider this an abomination, as well.


Steve, while I think I understand your feelings on this, I believe a drop-safety mechanism is absolutely required, for multiple reasons:

- to not offer a drop-safety would prevent sales in certain states,

- the potential for lawsuits would be greatly increased,

- it could affect the ability of the company to get insurance,

- it would be a huge PR/Marketing problem to overcome,

- I am not aware of any currently-manufactured autoloading pistol that does NOT have a drop-safety mechanism.

I wonder if a firing-pin-plunger-type drop safety could be activated by the grip safety, rather than the trigger, as in most designs. Grip the gun, the sear safety and drop safety are disengaged; loosen your grip to drop the gun, and both safeties would be fully engaged before it completely leaves your hand.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Didn't think about the those points, DJ. Thanks for pointing them out as it gives me questions to ask as I think this thing through...

It might get hard to get a company to build these (impossible actually) if it exposes them to negative PR, loss of sales in certain states, or potential lawsuits if a dropped pistol kills the owner or, heaven forbid a bystander. I have always wondered why no one has ever built new Model M pistols while the 1911 has flourished. Perhaps this pistol cannot be "up graded" to make it drop safe without screwing it up.

How is this implemented in the Colt 1911 design?

I'm not competent enough as a pistol smith to make that determination but I know a couple who are. I need to take this conversation to someone who knows. Thanks again for the prompt, DJ Niner!

VooDoo


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## rfawcs

Some of mine. The .380 has obviously been refinished (and a really nice job it was) at some time; the .25 and .32 are original.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Gaad...that refinished .380 is beautiful. They are *all* awesome and thanks for the pix!!

My gunsmith told me to never *ever* refinish an original Colt Model M but I have a guilty desire to buy a functionally decent pistol that the finish is absolutely trashed on and have it refinished in Cerakote with laser cut grips and a laser sight. I know...it's blasphemy but I'd love to buy one, trick it, and flip it after shooting it enough to see if it works that way.

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

*rfawcs*;
About the two Model M pistols and the little .25 ACP:
"Your gats have had a gitten!"
(...with thanks to Groucho Marx)

*DJ Niner* and *Vodoun da Vinci*;
...About that damnable _drop safety_: I would object to any device that could somehow stick in the "safe" position. If the device's plunger (or what-have-you) could only stick or be rust-welded in "unsafe," then the worst case would be only that the safety were disabled. But if the plunger could stick in "safe," it would render the gun useless, probably at the worst possible moment.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Steve, I'm understanding your perspective. I'm very skeptical about a maintained pistol ending up "rusted" to the point that it would be stuck in the safe position and thus rendered inert. I do realize that it *could* happen but...having handled a significant number of this type that are around 100 years old I am amazed that all of them are potent yet...not one of them slam fires, or fires out of battery. All of the safeties are yet intact. All of them I have examined are seriously potent and intact..it's hard to believe that making some mods to make them drop safe would render them inoperable in the gravest extreme if not properly maintained but I'm aware that it *could* happen.

Do you have technical suggestions that might give us drop safety in this type without the possibility of a failure rendering the pistol "safe" when it needs to be ready to rock?

Not being obstinate so much as inquisitive. 

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

If the firing-pin safety is disengaged by being actively pressed upwards and out of the way, then if anything untoward should happen it would stick in the "unsafe" position.
If, instead, it is actively pushed into the "safe" position, and is meant to fall by gravity or by the force of a light spring into "unsafe" when the pressure is removed, then it would stick in "safe" and be dangerous to the defensive user's health.

Rust is the least of the problem. I used that only as an easily understood illustration. A mere mechanical burr, raised while cleaning or repairing the pistol, might be more likely. Even a small piece of powder fouling could do it.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Thanks for your comments, Steve!!

What is your opinion on a slide lock open on the last shot? Better idea or not so important?

Thanks in advance!!

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

Vodoun da Vinci said:


> ...What is your opinion on a slide lock open on the last shot? Better idea or not so important?...


To me, this feature (missing from the Colt's pistol) is _vitally important_.
It not only signals that you've run the gun empty, but also it speeds the reloading process.

(I was taught to count my shots, even under dire pressure, but I know that it is more likely that I will "shoot to slide-lock" anyway.)


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Agreed, Steve, and once again, thank you for your comments.

My Wife and I both count shots almost unconsciously but both of us run the Model M dry now and again..it's un nerving to pull the trigger and experience *clIcK!* instead of *BANG!* after a sequence of rapid fire. It seems to be a necessary hazard for those of us who adore the Model M...it'd be really nice to have the slide lock open on the last shot but, for now, it isn't a show stopper for either of us.

The inherent attributes of this particular pistol far outweigh the negative points. For us, it points naturally and delivers multiple follow up shots *very* accurately with the utmost reassuring precision. This pistol is simple and easy...fun to shoot and rounded in the hand with everything sitting where it needs to be.

There is not another pistol quite like this model which is why I am on the hunt for yet another one. 

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

Vodoun da Vinci said:


> ...I am on the hunt for yet another one...


Recently, there was a very nicely engraved specimen for sale on GunBroker. See if it's still there.

Here's mine: https://picasaweb.google.com/100347953198046567798/Engraved75thBirthdayPresentFromJean?authuser=0&feat=directlink
(Click on the first photo to enlarge it, and then use the right-hand arrow on the picture to access the rest of them.)


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## Vodoun da Vinci

I love those engraved, collectible, types but I'd be afraid to shoot them and decrease their value. Right now I'm still whoring to have as many shooters of all 5 types as I can find and afford. GunBroker was not on my list of watch sites....thanks for the heads up as I have seen several that are interesting and a bit less spendy than what I have been seeing on GunsAmerica and Guns International!

My next buy is gonna try and be a mechanically decent Model M type V that the finish is basically trashed on and my hope it to trick is out and flip it. But It'll take another few weeks to get the expendable $ for that project. So, in the mean time I'll be shopping and shooting the two I have.

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

Afraid to shoot it?
The pistol in the pictures is my EDC. And I practice with it.
Guns are practical, functioning mechanisms, even when they're works of art.

Besides, it was a gift from my wife, who expects it to be used.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Wow....you got a good one. Both Pistol and Wife, Sir.


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## berettatoter

Really neat old Colt! I would have kept the old ammo though...you would be surprised at what some people will pay for that kind of stuff.


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Well, to some degree, I'm probably not very objective. I'd feel funny about shooting a collectible pistol like Steve carries with expensive engraving for fear of defiling an antique collectible/engraved pistol and thus reducing it's value.

Shooting old ammunition and replacing it with new ammo? No problem. I don't think the ammo I shot was "original" or that it dated from when the pistol was made...it was old but not 95 years old. Maybe ammo from the '60's or '70's. I'm not really very motivated by money or collectibles even though I really don't have much money. I never intend to sell the guns I have so what they are worth or what the extras (like ammo or magazines) are worth matters little to me. I'm a hand gunnner and the shoot-ability and combat worthiness is more important to me than preserving the monetary worth.

If I can't shoot 'em they need to be owned by somebody else that appreciates them in different ways than I do.

Just sayin'...

VooDoo


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Score!! :smt119

I just bought 3 more magazines for my Model M's from Numrich! http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

I have one of these mags and have shot it extensively and it never failed to feed everything we threw at it.....They have been unavailable for some time but at the range session this weekend my Wife and I managed to pump over 200 rounds thru 2 original/factory mags and one of the Numrich mags. 200 hundred+ rounds thru 2 guns with 3 mags and not a single FTF or FTE! Now I have 3 mags for each gun - an original and 2 after market magazines.

I'm stoked up and with 6 mags, 2 pistols and 400 rounds of Fiocchi 73 grain hardball on the way we are gonna have a party next time out.

VooDoo


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## Steve M1911A1

There's a source for even better replacement magazines, but they're a lot more expensive.
Click on: Colt 1908 Hammerless .380 Semi-Auto Pistol (there's a nearby page for the .32, too)


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## Vodoun da Vinci

Bookmarked that one!!

Thanks, Steve!

VooDoo


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## NORTEXED

This is my "Sweet Thing", originally owned by my Uncle's father who owned a hardware store in N. Texas from the 1890's, given to him by the Colt sales rep as a prize for high Colt firearm sales in the 20's. He carried it in his coat pocket while out collecting on accounts owed the store. My Dad drove the old gentleman around as a 12-13 year old kid, and the old gentleman would lean out the window of the Model T and shoot fence posts to "keep his eye sharp". Passed down to his son in the 50's when he passed away, who also owned the hardware store (I kinda grew up in the store myself), to my Dad in the 70's when my uncle passed away from my aunt, to me a few years before my Dad passed away in 2004. The New Service was my Uncle's brothers sidearm as sheriff in that county in the 40's -50's.


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## rfawcs

Really nice pistols, and even better with the history. Thanks for sharing.


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## Dframe

You guys inspired me to take mine (from 1932) out and put a box of ammo through it. Wonderful old gun. Very accurate, mild recoil, easy on the hands and ears. I was tempted to do my best "Cagney" imitation.


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## welshdude

Ran across one of these at a local pawn shop. It was dated to 1908. Being relatively new to 'all things firearms' even w/my limited experience I knew I was holding a genuine prece of art. In possession of a Sterling 300 .25 - Gasport(the good ones...all machined tempered steel from '72-'76.  NOTHING was stamped or cast) as my edc I was looking for an upgrade. Though I _love _my little jewel I'm well aware of it's limitations. Was thinking of a M.A. Micro Desrt Eagle .380. The US version of the Czech 'Kevin'. Fine pistol, butt ugly, but in a 'French Bulldog' kind of way.

When I held the Colt 1903 it was as if I was connecting w/thousands of predecessors many of whom died for my freedom holding that very model with their last breath. It was moving to say the least at the risk of seeming maudlin or pollyanna. It cycled flawlessly and the slide action was akin to a world class ice dancer. Effortless in appearance while appreciating the relentlessness in the preparation through the manufacturing process. I connected with it immediately. As an accomplished musician there are certain instruments with one simply connects. Unfortuately, the realities of my financial limitations...well we all know how that goes. That being said if I ever have the opportunity to acquire one again there wont be a 3d. Even if I have to do the dreaded layaway. A refined piece of machinery like these belong with people who will recognize, share and pass them on to future generations as viable contemporary EDCs not just museum pieces.

As silly as it may sound I was deeply humbled but the design, engineering, planning and production processes that had to have gone in to making such an exquiste jewel. And the great thing as they're plentiful enough to have a acqusition pricepoint within the limitations of those presently challenged. Like Yosemite Sam might've said, "By golly, ahm a-gonna-git me one a them!" :buttkick:


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## 9mmColt

Just ran into this thread and I appreciate all the pictures and information.

Mine is a Type 4 made in 1930. Wood stocks. .32 caliber. One magazine. idea

Thanks !


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## mike9905

Guys: Go to your favorite search engine (mine is BING) and type in "Colt Model M: New Production".


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## Hurryin' Hoosier

mike9905 said:


> Guys: Go to your favorite search engine (mine is BING) and type in "Colt Model M: New Production".


The question is "when?"


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## Lt3097

Fortunate enough to have both the 1903 and a1908 in 32acp and 380acp. I contemplated having both refinished at one time but a collector buddy of mine convinced me to leave them alone. Every time we talked he badgered me to sell one or both so I knew it would be better to keep them. Good shooters with no surface rust, just honest finish wear. Can't say I'm a fan though for concealed carry unless you were gonna keep the chamber empty. For me, it's just too easy to bump that safety off and then ya got a problem. Nostalgic little gun though.


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## Steve M1911A1

Lt3097 said:


> ...For me, it's just too easy to bump that safety off and then ya got a problem...


Two points to make...

First, the Colt's Pocket Hammerless's safety is not easy to "bump...off." It moves pretty stiffly.
If the safety on your pistol moves freely, there's something wrong.
How do I know? I carry one, 24/7/364.25. It rides in an OWB holster at about "3:30."

Second, there's something kinda esoteric: Both the .32 ACP and .380 ACP versions of the Colt's M-frame Pocket Hammerless pistol are named Model 1903. The Model 1908 is Colt's Vest Pocket pistol, in .25 ACP. Yes, the .380 version was introduced in 1908, but it was still called the Model 1903.
It's like a 9mm version of Colt's O-frame Model 1911: Whether the pistol is in .45 ACP or in 9mm, it is still the O-frame Model 1911.


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## Lt3097

Steve, it would seem that Colt disagrees with your interpretation of both guns being called a Model 1903. In 1908 a .380 ACP version of this gun was introduced. Called the Model 1908, it was nearly identical to the Model 1903 except for the bore diameter and the magazine, which held seven rounds (one less than the Model 1903).[3]. As far as the 1911A1 is concerned, I have never seen a Colt 9mm full length Govt. Model. The only ones I have seen are referred to as Commanders. As I'm sure you know,they also make the Commander in .45acp.


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## Steve M1911A1

Just for the heck of it, please link me to your Model M reference.
(If it's Wikipedia, you need to know that Wikipedia is not always completely accurate.)

The older Colt references that I have all tell me that even the .380 version is the M.1903.

It's a very esoteric point, but researching esoteric points is a lot of fun...at least for me, anyway.


BTW: The Combat Commander uses a standard Model O frame. It's still a Colt's M.1911.
More recently, Colt's has made and sold standard-size O-frame pistols in 9mm, called "M1991A1."
The standard-size O-frame has also been sold in 10mm, .38 Super, and .22LR. They are still M.1911 pistols.


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## Lt3097

I initially spoke with one of Colts repair tech's concerning an issue I had with a Colt Cobra. After I saw your post, it wasn't consistent with anything I had been ever told about the 1908 Hammerless so I called them back. They said the 1908 was patterned after the 1903, five years after the 03 was released and that it was designated the 1908 Hammerless. As a side note, I have since seen several online references indicating the 1903 was not made in .380acp, it was only made in 32acp. As you already said, the 1908 was made in .25acp and .380acp. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.


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## Steve M1911A1

Thanks.

One of the fun things about academic research is the contradictions one continually finds.
Colt's materials from the time refer to both calibers as the M.1903, as do research materials up 'till and through the 1950s.

Then, things begin to change.
Current references follow what you just found, but none of them are Colt's documents.

What's interesting is that Colt's now seems to follow the "new system."
Well, at least the people with whom you spoke do, anyway.


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## OldManMontgomery

*Excellent!*



NORTEXED said:


> This is my "Sweet Thing", originally owned by my Uncle's father who owned a hardware store in N. Texas from the 1890's, given to him by the Colt sales rep as a prize for high Colt firearm sales in the 20's. He carried it in his coat pocket while out collecting on accounts owed the store. My Dad drove the old gentleman around as a 12-13 year old kid, and the old gentleman would lean out the window of the Model T and shoot fence posts to "keep his eye sharp". Passed down to his son in the 50's when he passed away, who also owned the hardware store (I kinda grew up in the store myself), to my Dad in the 70's when my uncle passed away from my aunt, to me a few years before my Dad passed away in 2004. The New Service was my Uncle's brothers sidearm as sheriff in that county in the 40's -50's.


This is perfect example of how to make history fun and meaningful!

The history is far too valuable to sell at any price. If your kids don't appreciate them, beat them until they do.

I really don't care much for Colt double-action revolvers, but both those handguns are breathtaking. Keep up the good work.


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## OldManMontgomery

*Couple of thoughts...*

From my own personal reading, and subject to reassessment upon credible evidence, the Colt model M was initially released in 1903 as the Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless in the sole caliber of .32 ACP. In 1908, the Pocket Hammerless was introduced in caliber .380 ACP; it is the same basic pistol, save for the caliber (probably including the breech face of the slide and the extractor). I have always heard the .32 version referred to as the 1903 and the .380 version called the 1908. (Based on roughly fifty years of hanging around 'gun guys'.)

In 1908, Colt also introduced the Vest Pocket Hammerless in .25 ACP. Only to avoid confusion, this is NOT a model M; not the same size and shape as the .32 ACP/.380 ACP versions of the 1903/1908 pistols.

Just to reinforce a mention. I once owned a Colt Government Model in caliber 9mm Parabellum. It was in fact a full sized, steel frame Government Model (model O) pistol. (I don't want to talk about selling it.) The Government Model and Commander Model were cataloged as available in .45 ACP, Super .38 and 9mm Parabellum all during the 1960s and 1970s. As Colt developed the Super .38 in the late 1920s, the Government Model was probably available in Super .38 since 1927 or so. According to collector and shooter 'lore', the (lightweight) Commander was developed for Army testing about 1949 or so in caliber 9mm Parabellum. So I would not be surprised if the 9mm version was at least theoretical available starting about then. The 9mm Parabellum versions were the rarest in my experience. (I have no idea if they are still offered or when these calibers were no longer offered.)

I do have some 'old' .32 ACP or 7.65mm Browning ammunition. I have the ammunition and a couple 'old' boxes to go along with my 'Art Deco' .32 ACP pistol collection. I don't shoot it, but it's fun to have ammunition manufactured around the same time as some of these old pistols; mostly in the 1910s and 1920s. I should really find some old G. I. .45 ammunition in original packaging to go along with the M1911 pistols I have.


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## Steve M1911A1

OldManMontgomery said:


> ...(Based on roughly fifty years of hanging around 'gun guys'.)...


Ah, well... You're just a kid, then. A mere child.
When you get to be my age, you'll be...well...you'll be old!

So, lessee...
Fifty years ago was 1965.
Maybe five or 10 years before that, I began to see the .380 version of the Pocket Hammerless referred to as something other than the M.1903.
(I could be wrong about the time frame. It's my memory, you see. After all, I'm old.)

As I wrote before, it's merely a quibble. It's not an important issue.

(But I'm right, and everybody else is wrong. :smt083)


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