# Help identify revolver



## dws_hgf (Oct 19, 2017)

Hello all, I'm hoping someone here can identify this old revolver. The "proof?" marks stamped in the frame also appear on the cylinder. There are no additional markings other than the number 48 stamped on several pieces. The bottom grip frame is drilled and tapped to accept maybe a lanyard swivel. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

The proof marks, two crowns over the letter "U," seem to indicate that this pistol is German, and that it was proofed before 1939.
The number "48" seems to be a serial number, since it appears stamped into several different (non-essential) parts.

This gun could've been made and proofed at some time before 1871, in one of the independent German states which existed separately, before their amalgamation under Prussia into modern Germany in about 1871.
The reason for this conjecture is that its "crown" stamp is very Germanic in appearance, and its "U" stamp is definitely a German proof mark, but those two crowns are nothing like the "standard" Prussian/German style of crown stamp.
However, it is also possible that the pistol was made and proofed well after the German amalgamation, but while some of the once-independent German states still maintained their own proof houses.
Centerfire cartridges would have been rare in 1871 Germany, while rimfire cartridges would have been pretty easily available. Your pistol seems to be centerfire, so it may have been made and proofed much later than 1871.

The safety lever found just above the grip tends to identify the piece as German, too.
Very few revolvers were ever equipped with safety levers, and most of the ones which had them were German.
If the diameter of the bore is around 0.42" (certainly less than 0.50" and greater than 0.35"), and if it indeed had a swivel on its butt, it may have been a military pistol (but privately purchased). However, its very short barrel makes that pretty unlikely. Perhaps it did not have a butt swivel?


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Idle remark: an interesting gun; I would have liked a couple pics with the cylinder swung out, showing the external parts of the indexing and locking pieces and the rear face of the cylinder. Also wondering if the slot-head cap screws are original.


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## dws_hgf (Oct 19, 2017)

Hello Steve. After reading some of your posts I was hoping you would comment on this. I took a closer look and found some more, very hard to read, markings on the grip frame where a serial number is sometimes found. The Cylinder diameters are 0.322". The barrel bore is ~0.30" not bright but clearly showing the rifling. Barrel length is 1 5/8". It is indeed centerfire.

I am in the process of transferring several handguns from my Dads estate. As I was unable to determine a manufacturer for this piece, the Sheriff's office suggested having the State Police assign a serial number or surrender it for destruction. A local gun dealer appraised this gun at $140 and I was considering surrender as the easy path but your history lesson reveals what my Dad probably found interesting about this old revolver when he bought it. And that brings back many other happy memories. Thank you.


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## dws_hgf (Oct 19, 2017)

hillman said:


> Idle remark: an interesting gun; I would have liked a couple pics with the cylinder swung out, showing the external parts of the indexing and locking pieces and the rear face of the cylinder. Also wondering if the slot-head cap screws are original.


Hello, hillman. The cylinder comes out passing through the gate side of the frame. The cylinder axle has a lengthwise wire protruding that puts some drag on the cylinder's rotation. The cylinder is otherwise free to rotate when the hammer is down and trigger released. The cylinder lock lug is machined directly onto the trigger. I can't say much about the trigger guard screws having not tried to remove them yet. Thanks for your interest and any feedback.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*dws_hgf*;
*1.* The state police need not assign a serial number. It already has one: 48. But if they insist, make them electro-pencil it into the grip-frame, where the grip panels will cover it. It is, after all, a collector's piece.
*2.* The triggerguard screws probably are not original. But they may be old.
*3.* The grip-frame markings are probably those of the maker. They aren't proofs, and they aren't legible.
*4.* The drag-spring in the cylinder arbor is interesting. It may have been designed to keep the cylinder from over-rotating, or from rotating while the gun sat in its owner's pocket.

*hillman*;
Back when this gun was made, cylinders didn't yet swing out.
There's a swing-out loading gate, like a Colt SAA, and the ejector rod snuggles inside the cylinder's arbor until one pulls it out and swings it over into line with the cylinder.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Ah-ha. Thanks, dws and Steve. That pic is revealing. The gun's design isn't as unique as I had suspected, but it is interesting enough. Steve, I was sort of hoping it had a swing-out cylinder, because it _would_ be an anachronism.


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