# 9mm Defense Ammunition



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

What load to you use? I've been using the Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr Flexlock round. It seems that the standard round gets as good a review as the +P, if not better. I have always favored a heavier round like the 147 gr Winchester SXT or Ranger, but I know the 124 gr Speer Gold Dot is an extremely popular round. Of course any quality ammo is going to perform decently well, but I'm just curious as to what y'all use. TKS


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Winchester 127 +p+ Ranger
124 Federal HST is my new round
124 +p Gold Dot
Critical Duty/Defense
These are the rounds in my 9mm depending on the gun and how it shoots them. I love the Ranger bullet but they are hard to get. Some say they are the best 9mm bullet made.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

shaolin said:


> Winchester 127 +p+ Ranger
> 124 Federal HST is my new round
> 124 +p Gold Dot
> Critical Duty/Defense
> These are the rounds in my 9mm depending on the gun and how it shoots them. I love the Ranger bullet but they are hard to get. Some say they are the best 9mm bullet made.


Yeah, I haven't seen any Rangers in quite a while. I like the Critical Duty, but all those are good rounds.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

In no particular order, my preferred choices are;

Federal 124gr +P HST
Federal 147gr +P HST
Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P JHP

I also have carried the Winchester Ranger RA9TA 127gr +P+ JHP but prefer one of the above three.


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Out in Kentucky almost all defensive ammo is basically a dollar a round. Is this a nation wide thing?


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Is there a big difference in the Federal 124 HST vs the 124 +p HST? I bought two boxes and they don't say +p on them but I felt they would work well in my Shield since is so small and light.


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## Water-Man (Apr 28, 2008)

My full size 9mm is loaded with HST + P 124gr.
My sub compact carries Black Hills Barnes TAC-XP 115gr. + P.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Anybody have experience with Buffalo Bore 124 +p. I just got a box of them and they look like good bullets.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

shaolin said:


> Is there a big difference in the Federal 124 HST vs the 124 +p HST? I bought two boxes and they don't say +p on them but I felt they would work well in my Shield since is so small and light.


Check their website under Law Enforcement. I think the +P adds 50 fps muzzle velocity.


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## youngvet24 (Aug 21, 2013)

Saw a video yesterday about newish ammo called liberty usm4 apparently it gets up to 2000 fps. And a portion of the proceeds go to help out special forces veterans. Its expensive but I think its for a good cause. Mainly because I retired from 5th SFG


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

I handload every caliber that I own. For punching paper I use cast or jacketed bulk bullets and try to shoot cheap. But, after the guns are cleaned and stowed I have a "settled" load for each of them. My 9mm house and carry loads use the Hornady 124 gr. XTP.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

youngvet24 said:


> Saw a video yesterday about newish ammo called liberty usm4 apparently it gets up to 2000 fps. And a portion of the proceeds go to help out special forces veterans. Its expensive but I think its for a good cause. Mainly because I retired from 5th SFG


It's a 50 grain bullet I believe


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## warbird1 (Apr 17, 2012)

My CZ Phantom is loaded with 124 gr Gold Dots.


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## lefty60 (Oct 13, 2012)

I carry the Hornady 135 Critical Duty +P. Shoots good, is accurate in my gun (SR9c). :mrgreen:


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## Sgt45 (Jun 8, 2012)

The liberty shoots well in my M&P 9c, I've got it staggered with other stuff. I was in the 3rd a long long time ago, before they changed the flash.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I guess the old Hydra-Shok are a thing of the past. I currently have my S&W 3913 loaded with 124gr Hydra-Shok ammo as they had a decent price per round. I really feel that any modern bullet placed in the K5 will do the job. Given the perp is not hopped up on drugs and have the strength of 10 mosquitoes.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

shaolin said:


> I guess the old Hydra-Shok are a thing of the past. I currently have my S&W 3913 loaded with 124gr Hydra-Shok ammo as they had a decent price per round. I really feel that any modern bullet placed in the K5 will do the job. Given the perp is not hopped up on drugs and have the strength of 10 mosquitoes.


Changed my mind went back to the Ranger 127 +p+


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## jm38 (Jun 30, 2012)

Anything hollow point. much safer for the user. Hard to defend a through and through FMJ Ball in a civil suit. you will not stop an attack with one shot. So there might/will be collateral damage. A hollow point is a hollow point, Buy the round with which you are most accurate.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

jm38 said:


> Anything hollow point. much safer for the user. Hard to defend a through and through FMJ Ball in a civil suit. you will not stop an attack with one shot. So there might/will be collateral damage. A hollow point is a hollow point, Buy the round with which you are most accurate.


I agree with most of what you said. If a hollow point deeply penetrates the bad guy, expands to twice it's diameter, retains the majority of it's mass, and doesn't exit the deceased, it's done its job. If I have to hindsight my actions, I'd prefer to not deal with image evoking names like zombie, shredder, talon, or anything black. I also shy away from anything that fragments or is tethered. IMHO.


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## zeke4351 (Jan 29, 2013)

GCBHM said:


> What load to you use? I've been using the Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr Flexlock round. It seems that the standard round gets as good a review as the +P, if not better. I have always favored a heavier round like the 147 gr Winchester SXT or Ranger, but I know the 124 gr Speer Gold Dot is an extremely popular round. Of course any quality ammo is going to perform decently well, but I'm just curious as to what y'all use. TKS


I carry 124 grain +P Gold Dots in my Sig P229 and 124 grain Federal HST in my P938. I do not like Hornady ammo for self defense because by design it is a lower powered ammo that gets its penetration from lack of expansion. It is not much better than FMJ.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

zeke4351 said:


> I carry 124 grain +P Gold Dots in my Sig P229 and 124 grain Federal HST in my P938. I do not like Hornady ammo for self defense because by design it is a lower powered ammo that gets its penetration from lack of expansion. It is not much better than FMJ.


Actually, the Critical Duty has out performed other top rated ammo. It was designed specifically for the FBI penetration standards, not to be confused with the Hornady Critical Defense. I like the fact it is a 135 gr bullet, with standard and a +P pressured round. Both perform very well.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VAMarine said:


> I'll stick with my box of 50 HST or Ranger for the same cost as a box of 25 of the Hornady offerings. It ain't that good.


If you can find it! I like the ranger rounds too, but you just can't find it much anymore. For that matter, the HST isn't all that plentiful, but then I'm also seeing the Critical Duty becoming sparse as well. The Federal Hydra-shok are fairly plentiful, and so are the Speer Gold Dots, but any good round will suffice. I'm really not all that picky. I just like the Critical Duty.


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## zeke4351 (Jan 29, 2013)

GCBHM said:


> Actually, the Critical Duty has out performed other top rated ammo. It was designed specifically for the FBI penetration standards, not to be confused with the Hornady Critical Defense. I like the fact it is a 135 gr bullet, with standard and a +P pressured round. Both perform very well.


Can you direct me to the testing you are talking about? There is not one large LE agency anywhere that uses Hornady for the reasons I stated earlier. The only Hornady that appears on Doctor Gary Roberts approved list of tested ammo for the many agencies that he has tested for is a .45 +P load.








Left to right is Speer Gold Dot, Corbon DPX, and Hornady Critical Duty


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Ok bro! You carry what you want, and I'll carry what I want, but from the graphic above there isn't much variance in expansion. Do all those bullets pass or exceed the FBI five barrier penetration test as well as the Hornady? Even if they do perform as well, do you really think it makes a difference? Don't try to make it out like there is a significant difference bc by your own graphic, there isn't. Besides, I never said any of the other bullets were subpar. Did I?


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

critical defense




 critical duty
Many of the youtube test show that they do expand and go deep enough to reach vitals. I wouldn't want to get hit by it and for those who live in NJ it's the best option they have.

I see that you bash Hornady on defensivecarry.com and only want to use what LEO use and that's all good and all because for the most part what I use mirrors NYPD,FBI,ILL State Police ammo.
I don't see that carrying Critical Duty is bad. My local PD uses Silver Tips but I wouldn't use it but I don't mock those that do. I remember the 86 FBI Miami Shootout they used silver tips and they didn't do the job so they say.
Well I end here cause I know it won't change your mind but I wouldn't want to get hit by one. Hell those youtube videos made me load my Shield up with the CD round. I feel well armed and my back up mag holds Gold Dot 124+p


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Our SRT teams use Hornady ammo & Black Hills ammo in pistols, rifles and sbr's. Hornady TAP bthp .308 168gr is used by the sniper team.

Pretty sure they researched it before putting lives at stake due to it being crap ammo.

I think all the major players (companies) making defensive ammo are putting out a good product... it's more about personal choice than performance nowadays since they all perform similarly. Coke or Pepsi sorta deal.

Good luck to those searching for the ONE perfect round that works well in every gun... pretty sure it dosen't exist.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

TAPnRACK said:


> Our SRT teams use Hornady ammo & Black Hills ammo in pistols, rifles and sbr's. Hornady TAP bthp .308 168gr is used by the sniper team.
> 
> Pretty sure they researched it before putting lives at stake due to it being crap ammo.
> 
> ...


Agreed! I believe any quality ammunition will do. Speer, Federal, Winchester, Hornady, etc. Like others have said, I wouldn't want to get hit by any. Having been hit with .45 Cor-Bon at PBR, I don't recommend being hit by it or any other!


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

You may not believe it but I don't believe in Miracles Bullets anymore and when I think about it I don't think I ever did for sure.
GCBHM said that he been hit by a .45 Corbon at PBR "point blank range" and lived. that's a story I would love to hear because I always thought that would me instant death to get hit by a Corbon.
That use to be my magic bullet but now I know one doesn't exist. I mean people survive HST, Rangers, Hydra Shoks, and even the famed Gold Dot. 
I don't think there are enough street shootings to justify that Hornady is crap ammo. New ammo comes out all the time and at one time the listed bullets were new and not being used by the large PD.
Hell NYPD use to use FMJ ammo! That doesn't make me wanna load FMJ up for SD, by the way I am glad they use the GoldDots now. You don't have to have a +p behind it to be great. Many people are shot and killed with non+p ammo.
I often use the 124 HST and they work great in my gun. Not too much recoil, true to aim, and FBI test show they work but I would like some real life studies to determine if they really work not because some PD got a good deal or for political reasons. Just because Large PD don't use it don't mean they are crap. I don't know of many large PD using Corbons but I can assure you they are one of the best out there, and the DPX is awesome.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

shaolin said:


> You may not believe it but I don't believe in Miracles Bullets anymore and when I think about it I don't think I ever did for sure.
> GCBHM said that he been hit by a .45 Corbon at PBR "point blank range" and lived. that's a story I would love to hear because I always thought that would me instant death to get hit by a Corbon.
> That use to be my magic bullet but now I know one doesn't exist. I mean people survive HST, Rangers, Hydra Shoks, and even the famed Gold Dot.
> I don't think there are enough street shootings to justify that Hornady is crap ammo. New ammo comes out all the time and at one time the listed bullets were new and not being used by the large PD.
> ...


A lot of the time large PDs aren't cleared to use some of the newest ammo b/c of perception, etc., just like the military is required to use FMJ. Imagine if a police officer shot and killed a kid (who looked like an adult at the time), and word got out that they were killed with one of the famed "black tallon" cop killers. Can you imagine the PR nightmare? There is a lot more that goes into what ammunition a particular PD uses than the bullet itself.

It was only by the grace of God that I did survive, to be honest. The bullet entered my upper left thigh and exited the other side taking a mass of muscle about the size of my fist with it. I don't have any deformities, but I do have a lot of really cool looking scars! ;-) I lost over half my body's complement of blood (some 11 units). Still have some pieces in my leg, but suffice it to say the bullet did it's job. So did the paramedics and doctors. I read a stat somewhere that approximately 7 out of 10 people shot with handguns survive due to the medical care and time of care. That makes a huge difference.


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## bubbinator (May 15, 2012)

My sole 9mm is the trusted BHP, respringed with Wolffs for +P+ ammo. Old lot Ranger 127+P+ and Federal 124+P+(LEO Only) is my carry ammo. Should I find some Gold Dot 9mm +P or Fed HST 124 +P, I'll try it. My 45s all carry Fed 45 +P HST.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't carry a 9 but when I did I used the old HydraShocks, that's how long it's been. I don't recall what the Dept. issued but I would carry it when I was low,

I'm partially in agreement with there's no magic bullet. When you consider your average Joe probably won't need to pull a gun, if so no shots are fired quite often, and if you do need to use it a great majority of altercations end in the 3-3-3 scenario, I don't see the use in fretting over finding a magic bullet. There are quite a few good designs and if your gun likes them use them. I don't care if someone shot me with FMJ, it's going to hurt and I sure as hell don't want to take another one.

Having said that, if your job puts you in harms way or dealing with tweakers I would search out the highest rated performer. There is a difference between real criminals and the usual street punk.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

narmal said:


> If you want to know the truth about penetration and expansion in flesh and blood, shoot some animals. There's gators, possums, armadillo's, *****, chucks, nutria, jackrabbits. All can be approaced to within 10 yds, some within 10 ft, if you go at it right. So the hits can be precisely placed, even with pocket guns. Hearing protection helps a lot with such accuracy. I favor the Sonic Earvalve for hunting.
> 
> The FBI test protocol is a bunch of hooey, guys. It was designed with the intent of making the Feds look "less bad" for missing Platt 40x in Miami, and that's about all it ever did (or can do). You're not a cop, so you'd pretty much better not be shooting at the sides of people, nor thru car doors or windshields. I reject loads that show more than 10" of penetration in animals.


I don't know that I'm ready to buy into the FBI tests being "hooey". I don't claim to know everything, but I certainly don't discount tests conducted by reputable sources. Granted, no one can say for sure what a bullet is going to do once it is released through the barrel of a gun, but no one can totally discount thorough testing and maintain complete credibility. These tests are not meant to be completely conclusive. Anyone knowledgeable in ballistics will tell you anything can happen in a gun fight. These tests are intended to give a standard rating under specified conditions. We may not be cops, but you never know what situation you may find yourself in. I can testify that I've encountered some things I never imagined I ever would, and I believe we can all attest to the same. If not, you have not lived long enough.

Blanket statements like "I reject loads that show more than 10" of penetration in animals" are somewhat suspect to me. What kind of animal? A mouse or a polar bear? What caliber? A .22 or a .50 cal? All of these are totally subjective, just as much as the FBI tests...perhaps even more so. Still, tests are just that. Tests. Real life is altogether different. I say pick a quality round produced by a well known manufacturer, and roll with it. It will probably do for whatever we'll face, in most circumstances.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

9mm Federal HST 124gr HP hollow point LE ammo. I can never find the 147 grain.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I like the Remington Golden Saber round myself. It is starting to show it's age, but is a good round none the less. JMHO. :smt033


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## Water-Man (Apr 28, 2008)

berettatoter said:


> I like the Remington Golden Saber round myself. It is starting to show it's age, but is a good round none the less. JMHO. :smt033


Try the Remington GS Bonded.


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