# European or any Surplus Ammo??????????



## camacho2727 (Feb 3, 2010)

Is it buyer beware or is this stuff fine to target shoot with? The price is really cheap, but not cheap enough if its unsafe.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Cheap stuff is worth what you pay for it.
Surplus military or civilian ammunition could be perfectly fine for any use, but you need to remember that it's "surplus" for a reason.
Frequently it's solely a matter of being "out of date" according to that particular military's own guidelines. Ammunition that's just a little too old for some nation's military might be perfectly fine for casual, or even target use. Cartridges that are really old, however, will be more likely to suffer misfires and squibs, so you have to pay more attention to them when you shoot them. An unnoticed squib followed by a fully-powered shot will wreck your gun—and maybe you, too.
It is also possible to buy surplus ammunition that is inherently dangerous, having been rejected by some agency because it's over-pressure. Or, somehow, this particular load is otherwise unsuitable for your particular gun.
Also sold as "surplus": some unknown person's reloaded brass. Stay away from this stuff as from the plague!
"You pays your money, and you takes your chance," as the old carney once said.


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## camacho2727 (Feb 3, 2010)

Would the Russian steel cased stuff like Wolf and UCW and others that are in labeled boxes of 50 rounds fall under this category? Or just the stuff in military tins and wrapped in paper in unmarked containers be the stuff to beware of?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

camacho2727 said:


> Would the Russian steel cased stuff like Wolf and UCW and others that are in labeled boxes of 50 rounds fall under this category? Or just the stuff in military tins and wrapped in paper in unmarked containers be the stuff to beware of?


Wolf, _etc._, is not surplus. It is newly-manufactured for retail sale.
However, it is low-quality ammunition, and I have read about people having problems with it.
(I don't use it. I load my own for practice, and buy high-quality, US-made cartridges for self-protective carry.)

"[T]he stuff in military tins and wrapped in paper in unmarked containers" is surplus ammunition. Some of it is of excellent quality, in particular US military surplus of recent vintage. Some of it is OK, but problem-causing, such as recently-manufactured ammunition with corrosive primers that require the user to spend extra effort in gun cleaning, immediately after shooting the stuff.
Since I don't use it, I can't be of much more help.


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## camacho2727 (Feb 3, 2010)

thanks a lot, sometimes a dealer just wants to get rid of ammo, and being new i am not sure what is good or bad outside of the pricey big brand labels. I would like to shoot more, so if i can find some good priced reliable ammo thats the route for me. THANKS


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## tc15 (Mar 13, 2008)

I still have some surplus in 7.62/54 and 7.62/39 and have never had any trouble.Corrosive primers so I just clean and oil well after shooting.Back when I bought this stuff it was just $80 a case [1100 rounds]so I purchased quite a few cases.


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## rccola712 (Aug 26, 2008)

Steve, is there something that damages the gun due to a low powered round immediately followed by a high powered round? or is it just the high powered round doing all the damage? I've never heard of that before, and I wouldnt have thought that a low powered round would do anything to the gun, only the extra force of the higher powered one.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

rccola712 said:


> Steve, is there something that damages the gun due to a low powered round immediately followed by a high powered round? or is it just the high powered round doing all the damage? I've never heard of that before, and I wouldnt have thought that a low powered round would do anything to the gun, only the extra force of the higher powered one.


A _squib_ is not merely a "low powered round." It's a round that fires so incompletely that it will, in most cases, leave a bullet lodged in the bore of the gun that fired it.
If a squib leaves a bullet in the bore, and is then followed by a "normal" round that produces enough pressure to expel its bullet properly, the result will be at least a fractured barrel. Sometimes the result of such an accident is a steel barrel that looks like a peeled banana!
Other observed results include, but are not limited to, the loss of the shooter's strong- or weak-hand fingers, eye damage due to blown-back gasses, bent receivers, and blown-out magazines.

If one is shooting ammunition of unknown-or known-poor-quality, one must pay close attention to the sound and feel of each shot.
A squib neither recoils like a normal round, nor does it sound like a normal round. It tends to "pop," rather than to "BANG!" Sometimes it makes no sound at all, as if a misfire, yet still manages to place its bullet into the bore of the gun.
If one should experience a squib, or a supposed misfire, the gun should remain pointing downrange for half a minute to let things calm down in the "combustion chamber." Then the cartridge should be extracted carefully and examined.
If the case has no bullet attached, a bore obstruction should be expected. Run a cleaning rod down the barrel from the muzzle, to explore the possibility. If the bore is obstructed, use _a bore-diameter *brass* rod_, inserted from the muzzle, to push or hammer it out. (A mere cleaning rod is probably not strong enough, and it will scratch the bore.)
If the cartridge is intact, things are probably OK...but the bore of the gun should still be examined for obstructions, just to make sure.


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## rccola712 (Aug 26, 2008)

ahh I see what you mean, and yea, I could see that causing some problems. I thought you meant squib as in low powered, not a round that could leave the projectile in the barrel. Thanks


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