# I’m One of Those Anti-Gun People Who Just Bought His First Firearm (TTAG)



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/im-one-of-those-anti-gun-people-who-just-bought-his-first-firearm/


----------



## rickclark28 (Apr 14, 2019)

IMHO we should welcome all new firearm owners and assist when possible to help secure a safe gun owner. All new gun owners should seek training, create a safe storage/access area and get as much practice with the use and care of their firearm. I do have some fiends that are critical of some new ownership but I feel the "Second Amendment" is everyone's right and the more that support it the better off we are as a free society.


----------



## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm happy to see some are starting to see the light. But its a little late. I read somewhere most of the gun sales in the past month are first time buyers. They are walking out the door with a gun they have no clue what to do with. The ranges near me where they would get instruction and practice are closed, I imagine its the same in most places. Ammo for practice is scarce. Some may be fortunate to have someone to help them out. I imagine most will never fire their weapon or at least not ever enough to become proficient.. I was at a public range about a month ago, a couple showed up with a new AR. They had some issues to start. I was able to help. They each fired 6 rounds packed up and left. Good to go I guess. I would of course pass on anything I could to help someone like people on this forum would also. But you need to get out and shoot to really know what your doing.


----------



## Donel (Aug 17, 2019)

Who is going to train these new gun owners? By the time instructors are available again, the crisis will be over and many if not most of the new gun owners will either try too sell their guns or put them in a draw and forget about them. (Maybe good buys on some used guns)


----------



## chinabald (Mar 6, 2019)

Next year the used gun market will be flooded with deals


----------



## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

The time for training is past. Who want's to go one on one these day's? I offered training on my personal range and even use of my gun's to friends and relatives, free mind you. Either anti-gun, too cheap, or just lazy. NOW they either want to borrow a gun or buy one with my help. I'm not even seeing my Grand children right now. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just don't want another potential problem.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I have my doubts as to the legitimacy of the article, as well as the individual in question. 

Just sayin..................


----------



## rickclark28 (Apr 14, 2019)

There is something fishy about the article. It maybe on the up and up but my gut tells me to move on and let it go. I do have a chance to help out my wife's friend with a new P365 and my daughter is still getting to know her 9E. Possibly one good thing is the trainers at our club are booked up with waiting lists so at least they have some new business. It would be nice to have all ranges open. For me like many others I do not need to take any chances now and do not need anymore problems.


----------



## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> I have my doubts as to the legitimacy of the article, as well as the individual in question.
> 
> Just sayin..................


Agreed. Written by someone just looking to say something. If you have always been anti gun this situation won't change your mind cuz you'll still think all you have to do is call 911. Don't worry, they'll find your body.


----------



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

Could also be some folks are finally realizing the Gov't isn't going to protect them. 
Police are also being hit hard by Covid 19 and have to prioritize calls more than ever to cover with the staff they have available.


----------



## yellowtr (Oct 28, 2016)

The 2 ranges I use are still open but with some restrictions to # of shooters and distance. I have been up to them only twice since this all started. There was 1 shooter about a week ago and this week I was the only one there. Still a bit cold here but getting better. I have no idea if the 2 clubs have seen an increase in membership. Nothing has been posted on their websites. All new members are required to attend a safety briefing before you are allowed on the grounds. And all meetings, training sessions have been canceled for now so I am guessing any new member is in limbo for now.
I agree that most new firearm owners have no idea how to safely operate their guns. Load, unload, clean, correct ammo and what not to do in any situation. Maybe some will take advantage of youtube for some trng.


----------



## rickclark28 (Apr 14, 2019)

I just received good news that our club will allow limited numbers of members and indoor range stalls starting today. This will allow me to get my daughter some more practice time. She started out with her SR22 and my Mark III 22/45 last year. She has almost taken over my SR9E but needs more time with it. All her friends have Glocks and they are very proficient with them. She has shot many many Glocks and I will find one she is comfortable with and help her get one fitted in the future. I am a Ruger fan and have lost my daughter to all my family and friends that swear by Glock. I will be asking for help soon on the Glock sub forum for advice on the Glock. She can decide for herself what works for her. Another one goes to the dark side.


----------



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

rickclark28 said:


> I just received good news that our club will allow limited numbers of members and indoor range stalls starting today. This will allow me to get my daughter some more practice time. She started out with her SR22 and my Mark III 22/45 last year. She has almost taken over my SR9E but needs more time with it. All her friends have Glocks and they are very proficient with them. She has shot many many Glocks and I will find one she is comfortable with and help her get one fitted in the future. I am a Ruger fan and have lost my daughter to all my family and friends that swear by Glock. I will be asking for help soon on the Glock sub forum for advice on the Glock. She can decide for herself what works for her. Another one goes to the dark side.


Get her a G19 to try out and I doubt she will look further.

GW


----------



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

My brother in law, who has been a lifelong friend has no guns. He has the means, but until recently hasn't felt the need. 
We are going shopping tomorrow for an 870 or maybe a Mossberg and enough ammo to familiarize him with the gun and keep the thing fed for a while. 
The learning curve on a handgun is steep verses a scattergun IMHO.

GW


----------



## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

some advice, get buckshot. If he shoots slugs in a house they’ll go through the walls and may hurt someone else. Buckshot is plenty deadly
.


----------



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

RK3369 said:


> some advice, get buckshot. If he shoots slugs in a house they'll go through the walls and may hurt someone else. Buckshot is plenty deadly
> .


I have a few boxes of #4 buck which if I recall correctly, has a load of 35 .22" lead balls flying at around 1,200 FPS. I will donate a box to the B.I.L.

GW


----------



## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Safer than slugs for close contact where you don’t want collateral damage. Ever see what a 12ga shot shell will do to a wall at 3 feet? Blows a 6” hole through it. Same effect on a human body. Slugs will penetrate even more so they are riskier for injuring someone else. Shot is more than enough at close range.


----------



## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Imo there is more training necessary for a shotgun than people Believe. There are too many varibles when shooting them to get into here. And there are safety factors to understand as well that pertain to shotguns.
My two cents would be to wait until I could take a class on proper use and become familiar with the gun or any gun. What is the NOW urgent need to do this right now? Just asking.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Using a long gun (shotgun) for home defense can be challenging. Obviously, it's far better than having nothing at all, but if given a choice, I'll go handgun all day long.


----------



## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

I would too but the OP says he thinks his BIL is not familiar with guns and sounds intimidated by a handgun.


----------



## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Hand guns to first time shooters, under duress, etc etc? Not sure that would be a good idea. I would spend the money on a good home security system if they did not already own one. If anything, maybe a single shot 410. Get some snap caps and practice reload the gun. Get as much range time as possible.


----------



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

RK3369 said:


> Safer than slugs for close contact where you don't want collateral damage. Ever see what a 12ga shot shell will do to a wall at 3 feet? Blows a 6" hole through it. Same effect on a human body. Slugs will penetrate even more so they are riskier for injuring someone else. Shot is more than enough at close range.


A six inch hole at three feet would likely be either a exaggeration or you have an extremely short barrel on your particular shotgun.





GW


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

RK3369 said:


> I would too but the OP says he thinks his BIL is not familiar with guns and sounds intimidated by a handgun.


Owning a firearm is a big responsibility. If one decides to buy one, it's high time to get over your inhibitions. Your life, or that of others, could very well depend on it in the end.

If I were to use a shotgun for home defense, it would have a pistol grip instead of a full stock. And, it would have a short barrel.

Long guns can be easily grabbed and taken from you in close quarters, such as a hallway. You need extra space to use one. If you are of the mindset that you will take cover in a corner of a room and not make the effort to clear your own house if you suspect an intruder is in it, then a shotgun would most likely be okay.

If you have children in another area of your house and you must get to them, a shotgun is going to be cumbersome.

We don't have children. It's just me and the wife. She's quite proficient with a handgun and has her own. I'm very good at clearing bldgs. and rooms. I did that for a living. No way would I take cover in a room and wait for an intruder to make his presence known. I know my house better than anyone. That is to my advantage. I'll always take the fight to the enemy.

Anyways, intimidated by a handgun or not, now is the time to get un-intimidated, if you should decide to get one.

Man up and get it done!!


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Jeb Stuart said:


> Hand guns to first time shooters, under duress, etc etc? Not sure that would be a good idea. I would spend the money on a good home security system if they did not already own one. If anything, maybe a single shot 410. Get some snap caps and practice reload the gun. Get as much range time as possible.


Home security systems can be defeated. A home invasion can be deadly. A home situated remotely even with a security system won't guarantee the loss of any lives.

If you have a family, you have an obligation and a duty to protect them from injury or loss of life. You do whatever it takes to accomplish that. Even if it means sacrificing your own life in the process. If you are armed, the chances of protecting your family has risen substantially.

As mentioned previously, a long gun is better than nothing. But, IMHO, it's not the best. Knowing that, why would anyone choose that option?


----------



## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

A pump Shotgun is a good idea. Make sure you teach loading and UNLOADING safely. More beginners have trouble with safe unloading than any other thing. They keep wanting to pump the loaded shells out than removing from the tube more safely. No. Four Buck is ideal.


----------



## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Paul Harrell does a good video on shotguns for home defense. Shotguns can very dangeous when dropped or fallen over when leaned against something.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Jeb Stuart said:


> I was in the Alarm industry as for 35 years. They are designed to not be defeated unless a complete Professional decides to enter your home. At those type professionals do not waste time on a residential home. At least not any average home. Saw thousands of break-ins. Residential, commercial Industrial.
> Disagree about the shotgun. I have trained with one and shot them on a regular basis for years. They are not hard to maneuver at all, at least not a short barrel or standard barrel gun which you did mention. You and your wife are trained with Pistols. I know you have witnessed many that were not. And they are a mess.
> I do not know how remote your are talking about. But like any alarm, even remotely they are a first line of defense. Home invasions do happen but rare and can be prevented by a alarm, or at least the alarm can immediately warn the homeowner, and police dispatched Immediately. I have not seen any home invasion where a alarm was sounded, lights going on etc. and the intruders simple just hung around.
> I have a alarm system installed in my house with also CCTV. No one is going to break into my house without a serious alarm and notification.
> ...


My point was, and still is, as the man of the family, you have a duty to protect your family. I'm not willing to place that responsibility on a home alarm system and call it good.

Sure, it has a place as a supplemental device. Anything designed and fabricated by man, can be defeated by man.

Some things in life, I take as serious as life & death. Driving and protecting my own, are two of them.


----------



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

This is my alarm system. He works great. He can even detect bad guys on the street.









GW


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Jeb Stuart said:


> Have you done your planning by protecting your home with a first line of defense and actually have a home alarm system? For me that is proper planning. So please tell me how they are defeated. I have designed thousands of alarm systems, and your knowledge on how to defeat them would be of great interest.
> Early warning systems are even used by military, banks, Schools and on and on. . How is your home protected while you are away? What if you have family that cannot use a firearm or unwilling to have one? What if you have a fire while you are away?
> 
> Why would you want to be asleep and have someone in your house and not even know it? If they can so easily defeat a sophisticated alarm system, then they sure as heck can get into your home by other means. If they did how would you even have a clue where they were? Where they came in? Would you not want a good CCTV system to monitor them until the police came? I have been in so many homes where the intruder was standing over their bed while they were asleep.
> ...


You have an agenda at play. I'm not going to argue the merits with you on and on.

We've never had an alarm system. My parents did at one time with ADT. They had more issues with their system than they did good results.

Having been in LE for 30 yrs., I responded to countless false alarms. So much so, that many depts. began charging the property owners for responding to such calls. And yes, there were many times that our responses were necessary.

At my (our) stage in life, I don't see the necessity for an alarm system. If I did, I would have one. We choose our property location with due diligence.

At the end of the day, it's all about situational awareness, proper training, education, and experience. I'm happy to say that I'm 4 for 4.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Jeb Stuart said:


> You are right, I am not going to argue this with you. And I have sold many alarms to LE's over the years. And on the flip side, many alarms where Police, ambulance and fire did respond and lives saved. And for that I thank you for your service.
> And as One that was in the business, I advocated fining for false alarms fines. And there is a reason for this. Again, typically shotty workmanship, user error etc. ADT is the last company I would choose. One word of advice. If you think where you live makes a difference, it doesn't. I have been into some of the nicest homes you can imagine where disaster occurred including murder. To think it cannot happen to you is a false sense of security. I also choose my Neighborhood very carefully and rated on of the safest in the city with great schools etc. My neighbor behind me thought he did not need one either. He found out that maybe he was wrong.
> But if you feel you have no need, that is certainly your Option and no law that say's you have to have one. Persoanlly I never turn mine off and make sure of that.
> I do wish you and your family all the safety in the world. And I do mean that. Thanks for your opinion.


It's all good, and we're entitled to our opinions or views, no matter what others may think.

Take care and stay safe.


----------



## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Goldwing said:


> A six inch hole at three feet would likely be either a exaggeration or you have an extremely short barrel on your particular shotgun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Put up a 2 ft square piece of Sheetrock and shoot a 12 ga at it from three feet and see what it does. You get a lot wider pattern at 10 feet than three.


----------



## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I have a range day coming up in a few days. I will test the patterns at different ranges, make annotations and provide pics.

GW


----------



## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

Goldwing said:


> I have a range day coming up in a few days. I will test the patterns at different ranges, make annotations and provide pics.
> 
> GW


It will be an interesting test.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I've always liked annotations.


----------



## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

I bought an alarm after I had a break in while no one was home. I see an alarm system more as something to protect my stuff while no one is home. Someone still has to respond to the alarm and there is a time factor involved. I would not trust it to be the sole defense of my family while at home. I have a handgun close by at home but my next choice would be my Mossberg 590 18" barrel with 00 buck. Now I have hunted with a Mossberg 12 gauge shot guns since I was a kid I am very comfortable with them. Someone not being familiar with shoguns could have a difficult time because of recoil mine packs a pretty good wallop but I know what I'm in for when I pull the trigger. At close distance there is not a big spread so you still have to have a good aim. IDK if I would be comfortable telling someone unfamiliar with shot guns to use them for home defense. also anyone who has been in a high stress situation with a firearm or done some type of competition knows its vastly different than standing in a stall punching paper with any firearm.


----------



## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

I see all these comments about alarm systems and of course you see mine posted after being in the Industry for over 30 years. Yes, a person can choose what they believe is right for them. I have no qualms with that, but I see some things that I will take exception to.
Yes, i have a very extensive alarm system to include CCTV. Why? Because I have seen too many bad things that could have been prevented. And yes, I do have home defense firearms as well.
Why do I even use "ARM mine during the day when I am home? Why do alarms come equipped with a *"Panic" Button?*
In all my years of be*i*ng in the business, I have never once seen a time when the Police did not respond. For one, it is the requirement for them to do so and secondly the system is notified by a trained Person at a Monitoring station. Ever been in one? Do you realize they have a list of Protocols to follow, that they will monitor the system until the police arrive? Do you know that they know exactly where the intrusion took place, which window, which door etc. Or the highest priority the Panic Button.

I have never once seen any home that where a intrusion took place that the bad guys did not flee once they heard the alarm.

Look at this family and tell me what you think? Typical nice family, right. I will leave this as food for thought, then post again as it is getting long.


----------



## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

The Brother of the family above is a friend of mine. His sister and family lived in the Historic District in Richmond Virgina. One Saturday they were going to have a small party with a few friends. On this day, they left the door unlocked expecting some the of usual guest that get at the parties early.
But on this afternoon they had some unexpected people show up. Two animals. Escaped from the Virginia Prison.
What took place next is something that you cannot print here in detail. The family taken down in the basement and the wife repeatly raped in front of the Husband. All including the the children suffered a Brutal heinous death. The description of which would literally make you sick to your stomach.
Now suppose the did have the house alarmed and locked. One thing for sure the Police would have been called and at least a very good chance that this ongoing torture would not have taken place.

If nothing else keep your door locked at all times. Never open the door unless you can make a positive Id.
And for gosh sake, if you do not own a alarm system, be very careful when entering your home after you have been away. God only knows what is inside waiting for you.


----------



## rickclark28 (Apr 14, 2019)

Alarm systems are a very important part of a layered security system. Too many home invasions end up with a terrible outcome. It is a good idea to get a Alarm System for so many reasons. Too many criminals get away with these crimes time after time. Protect the ones you love and be opened minded to do what ever you can do. These past decades I have seen too many good reasons to have a "Panic Button" and this is just another sad reminder.


----------



## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

rickclark28 said:


> Alarm systems are a very important part of a layered security system. Too many home invasions end up with a terrible outcome. It is a good idea to get a Alarm System for so many reasons. Too many criminals get away with these crimes time after time. Protect the ones you love and be opened minded to do what ever you can do. These past decades I have seen too many good reasons to have a "Panic Button" and this is just another sad reminder.


I've always had an alarm system and a safe. A real one made of plate steel, it weighs about a ton, it wasn't cheap. I figured that if someone tried to steal my guns they're gonna' have their work cut out for them. Not only that but if someone were to succeed nobody could say that I didn't take the proper precautions to prevent my guns from falling into the wrong hands. If it's proven that you'd left your guns lying around where they could easily fall into the wrong hands and someone stole and committed a crime with them. You'd better believe that you're gonna' be subject to a massive civil suit and your troubles will have just begun.

Chances are that if you have an alarm system thieves will choose another place. For the most part they do not want to stick around that long. A good quality safe is going to take some time to get into. Obviously the type of safe you buy depends on the value of the property within it. But the bottom line is to at least do all that is humanly possible within your means to prevent your guns from falling into the wrong hands.


----------



## rickclark28 (Apr 14, 2019)

Good point on the over looked safe issue. I have spent time getting good safe's and securing them to make access as difficult as possible. All ammo, firearms and valuables need a good quality safe. This is good valid point and over looked by some. Even quick access safes can be bolted down.
"But the bottom line is to at least do all that is humanly possible within your means to prevent your guns from falling into the wrong hands." Great advice for new firearm owners!


----------



## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

rickclark28 said:


> Alarm systems are a very important part of a layered security system. Too many home invasions end up with a terrible outcome. It is a good idea to get a Alarm System for so many reasons. Too many criminals get away with these crimes time after time. Protect the ones you love and be opened minded to do what ever you can do. These past decades I have seen too many good reasons to have a "Panic Button" and this is just another sad reminder.


At one time we had a serial rapist. All happened in upper income homes. The majority happened during the day.
We also had a rapist that would attack women that were showing homes in new communities. The rapes would occur when showing the models. I actually at the time was dating a women from the same company and she had a friend that was raped.

Now here is the catch. I heard about the rapes, set up a meeting with the owner. I told him that I could put in a control unit in the main office, and Provide Panic Buttons for the agents that would work in the models. A simple device carried in the hand or a chain around the neck. *Total Cost was very low.* At the time he had a number of developments and said that while one development was inexpensive he did not want to invest in all of them. And so therefore NO, not interested.

Well Not long after this, the Lady above was Attacked by this same rapist. When I told her that I had a meeting with the owner before her rape and had a solution that would notify the police. And remember a "A Panic Signal" is of the highest alarm at the monitory facility. 
I cannot tell you how livid she became. Very upsetting to find out her employer would not do anything for the employees safety. And at least not informing the employees which later said they would have paid the price themselves.


----------



## bigdave101 (Apr 18, 2020)

Giving my son in law a 12 ga pump shotgun, 870 rem, will teach him how to use properly. bb shot or #4 buckshot sounds good...


----------

