# Bought new handgun for my wife today - SD9 VE



## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

All,
I have been wanting to increase my wife's defensive fire power for several months and finally found her one today. She has preferred a small framed 38 for years and shoots very well with it but a few months ago she finally asked me to take her shopping...for a high capacity 9mm! After all these years, wow! I'm not a fan of the 9mm and prefer 45acp or 10mm chambered pistols and she has shot my pistols without issue but she knows how I am on practicing. Over the long haul she said she wouldn't enjoy shooting them but felt she would the 9mm. I'm sure she will do fine with it and since we have a bunch of Black Talon 9mm ammo from back in the days I had a FFL, I think stopping power won't be an issue. 
She settled on a new S&W SD9 VE. We have not shot it yet but I'm pretty impressed with it's style, construction and capacity. Took it down to clean and can't wait to see how she does with it on the range. Paid $339.00 plus tax and living in Va. - got it without a seven day waiting period like we endured while living in NC. Will update post with a review in the future. Cheers!


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Nothing wrong with a 9mm. Hope she's happy with the S&W.


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

I love 9mm. If you are limited to single-digit magazines, then 9mm, 10mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP are ALL good choices, with "bigger-the-better" harder to argue. But for high-capacity ready-for-almost-anything situations, I'm partial to 9mm, with .357 SIG/.40 S&W running a close second. (Bobby Kennedy died from a single .22 LR gunshot wound)

My favorite round to practice with so far is the Speer Lawman (http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/lawman.aspx) 124gr TMJ RN. Ballistics: http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=53616
I like it because it isn't as "snappy" as the 115gr rounds I've tried, and it's a pretty clean product overall.

That looks like one of the best values in handguns, tbh. And I think you got a good price.

Congrats to the wife (and you!)


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

I have an SD40VE that's pretty nice. There is a trigger kit out there by Apex Tactical if you don't like the stock trigger.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> All,
> I have been wanting to increase my wife's defensive fire power for several months and finally found her one today. She has preferred a small framed 38 for years and shoots very well with it but a few months ago she finally asked me to take her shopping...for a high capacity 9mm! After all these years, wow! I'm not a fan of the 9mm and prefer 45acp or 10mm chambered pistols and she has shot my pistols without issue but she knows how I am on practicing. Over the long haul she said she wouldn't enjoy shooting them but felt she would the 9mm. I'm sure she will do fine with it and since we have a bunch of Black Talon 9mm ammo from back in the days I had a FFL, I think stopping power won't be an issue.
> She settled on a new S&W SD9 VE. We have not shot it yet but I'm pretty impressed with it's style, construction and capacity. Took it down to clean and can't wait to see how she does with it on the range. Paid $339.00 plus tax and living in Va. - got it without a seven day waiting period like we endured while living in NC. Will update post with a review in the future. Cheers!


These Glock designs in non-Glock brand names are becoming more and more popular today.

I am surprised you could get a S&W for such a low price. Maybe it truly is that the design is so much simpler than the classic 1911A1 or Browning original designs, that it therefore lends itself to a much less expensive pistol. Maybe less metal means less cost of production, as well.

R.Lee Ermy speaks highly of the Glocks, so I suppose these designs are sufficient. He of course prefers the 1911A1, and I prefer the 1911A1-knock-offs with double and single action.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Nothing wrong with a 9mm. Hope she's happy with the S&W.


9mm is indeed one of two perfect sizes in pistol cartridges specifically for anti-personnel applications.

The other is the 45 ACP.

Anything less than these 2 is generally inadequate, and anything more is generally overpowered.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

* (Bobby Kennedy died from a single .22 LR gunshot wound)*

I don't want to start or continue a lengthy debate on calibers in this thread. Bobby Kennedy died from a .22 is true but the fact that is was a close range shot must be accounted for. Facing a knife welding nut, home intruder or multiple assailants at a 7-11 at 11:30pm at night, you take the .22 and give me a .40, 45acp or 10mm. Several manufactures offer 10 round+ magazine capacity for both calibers so a single stack (7 round capacity) argument doesn't fly any more.
I'm not downing the 9mm cartridge because it serves a vital role and without it, that leaves the 32/380 as the go to rounds for defense for those seeking less recoil. The 9mm, high capacity variants of pistols, are awesome for those who need/depend on them. I prefer a stronger round. All the studies I have read, explain there is little difference between any caliber in stopping an assailant. I just can't accept that. I feel a larger/heavier, faster and larger expanding round is a fight stopper. Less rounds fired to be safe also counts in my book. 
At the range, I have always had my wife shoot 2 shot groups in rapid fire succession while she practiced. I feel this offered a better chance for her to end a fight using her 38 revolver. Now with the 9mm, I will continue to stress this method but may up it to 3 shot groups due to the SD9VE's higher capacity.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

No handgun caliber is a proven one-shot man stopper. Too variables involved to insure anything. 

If you dig deep enough, you'll find whatever stat, data, or information you need, to back-up any given statement. It won't always be pertinent or relevant, but properly framed and/or presented, it will suffice for some. 

Make no mistake, the .22LR round can be a lethal round. Would I carry a .22LR handgun for self-defense? Absolutely not. Again, too many variables to be considered, therefore, making it an "iffy" self-defense round. 

Generally speaking, some variables can be countered by using a large(r) caliber round. Not enough though, to make it a sure thing each and every time.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> * (Bobby Kennedy died from a single .22 LR gunshot wound)*
> 
> I don't want to start or continue a lengthy debate on calibers in this thread. Bobby Kennedy died from a .22 is true but the fact that is was a close range shot must be accounted for. Facing a knife welding nut, home intruder or multiple assailants at a 7-11 at 11:30pm at night, you take the .22 and give me a .40, 45acp or 10mm. Several manufactures offer 10 round+ magazine capacity for both calibers so a single stack (7 round capacity) argument doesn't fly any more.
> I'm not downing the 9mm cartridge because it serves a vital role and without it, that leaves the 32/380 as the go to rounds for defense for those seeking less recoil. The 9mm, high capacity variants of pistols, are awesome for those who need/depend on them. I prefer a stronger round. All the studies I have read, explain there is little difference between any caliber in stopping an assailant. I just can't accept that. I feel a larger/heavier, faster and larger expanding round is a fight stopper. Less rounds fired to be safe also counts in my book.
> At the range, I have always had my wife shoot 2 shot groups in rapid fire succession while she practiced. I feel this offered a better chance for her to end a fight using her 38 revolver. Now with the 9mm, I will continue to stress this method but may up it to 3 shot groups due to the SD9VE's higher capacity.


The 22LR shot that killed RFK was a contact wound to his skull. If you can get that close to someone and surprise them, then sure, a 22LR would work fine. As such, it is a popular assassin's caliber, and NOT a self defense gun.

The 9mm is the perfect median caliber for self defense, particularly with hollow point ammo. The 38 revolver is just as good, although you can't shoot hammered groups as fast with the revolver, and you are normally limited to 6 cartridges with the revolver as well. The pistol will normally hold twice as many.

Hammered three's is a good plan, since the main issue is going to be hitting the target anyway, which most people have a very hard time doing when they are shaking from fear or excitement.

You will need to teach your wife how to confront an assailant at various distances, how to hold the gun in various configurations, how to aim and shoot, the hammered group, then to take a deep breath while she scans for (1) further movement in the assailant and (2) for additional assailants, then to fire another hammered group if necessary, and if that does not work after two hammered groups, to carefully aim for the triangle of the eyes and nose, and put one very carefully aimed shot there.

As you can see, this is best left to a professional certified instructor.

Good luck.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> No handgun caliber is a proven one-shot man stopper. Too variables involved to insure anything.
> 
> If you dig deep enough, you'll find whatever stat, data, or information you need, to back-up any given statement. It won't always be pertinent or relevant, but properly framed and/or presented, it will suffice for some.
> 
> ...


I would say that the heavy anti-bear caliber revolvers are guaranteed one-shot killers on humans, because of the severe hydrostatic shock.

As such, the 44 rem mag, the 454 casull, the 45-70 government, and the 500 S&W would do it just fine.

These are primarily bear calibers however. With any other smaller caliber, normally 2 shots is the norm, for a quick kill on a human.

Contact wounds with smaller calibers are different though. If you can manage to contact the heart, liver, spleen, or brain with any smaller caliber, you can then also manage to have a one shot quick kill. Remember how quick Lee Harvey Oswald bit the dust, and then turned ashen and limp in the video of Jack Ruby capping him?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> I would say that the heavy anti-bear caliber revolvers are guaranteed one-shot killers on humans, because of the severe hydrostatic shock.
> 
> As such, the 44 rem mag, the 454 casull, the 45-70 government, and the 500 S&W would do it just fine.
> 
> ...


Large calibers you mentioned, tend to be harder to be more accurate with. I know quite a few guys that are very accurate with most calibers. But, give them a .44 Mag. or larger, and they tend to be all over the place.

If there was a one caliber that was a guaranteed one-shot man stopper, we'd all own one already. It all goes back to accuracy and shot placement, as we all know.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Large calibers you mentioned, tend to be harder to be more accurate with. I know quite a few guys that are very accurate with most calibers. But, give them a .44 Mag. or larger, and they tend to be all over the place.
> 
> If there was a one caliber that was a guaranteed one-shot man stopper, we'd all own one already. It all goes back to accuracy and shot placement, as we all know.


I am extremely accurate with my 44 rem mag. My groups with it are half the size of those with my 45 ACP, and my 45 ACP is pretty good too.

The 44 rem mag is perfect for me -- the other heavier calibers would make me flinch however.

Everyone has their own particular flinching limit.

The only disadvantage of using such a heavy caliber for self defense against humans is that after you shoot, your gun is way up above your head, and you need to bring it back down to shoot again. That's why these heavy calibers are NOT great for self defense against people.

But as far as a one shot quick kill goes -- absolutely !!!

Choice of weapon style and caliber/load all depends on the intended target.

For shooting bears, the 44 rem mag is the minimum.

For shooting people, the 9mm parabellum with JHP's is perfect. Would not even faze a bear though, although the sound might scare it away.

More people have probably been shot with a 9mm than with any other caliber pistol -- two world wars is why.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> I am extremely accurate with my 44 rem mag. My groups with it are half the size of those with my 45 ACP, and my 45 ACP is pretty good too.
> 
> The 44 rem mag is perfect for me -- the other heavier calibers would make me flinch however.
> 
> ...


Actually, that distinction goes to the .22LR, so much so, that it's not even close.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Actually, that distinction goes to the .22LR, so much so, that it's not even close.


I would have to see researched stats world wide.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> I would have to see researched stats world wide.


Knock yourself out. :watching:


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Knock yourself out. :watching:


No way Beavis. Back up your statement or else I'm ignoring it.

Rule #1 of forensic debate. Called "shifting the burden."


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## RadarContact (Nov 25, 2012)

Sorry OP.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> No way Beavis. Back up your statement or else I'm ignoring it.
> 
> Rule #1 of forensic debate. Called "shifting the burden."


So.....if you choose to ignore what I have stated, that will effect my life how?

I only have one concern each month. That's waiting for my pension to be direct-deposited to my checking account. Anything other than that, I don't lose much sleep over. :smt033


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> So.....if you choose to ignore what I have stated, that will effect my life how?
> 
> I only have one concern each month. That's waiting for my pension to be direct-deposited to my checking account. Anything other than that, I don't lose much sleep over. :smt033


That's funny. I had a friend in high school who only worried about 3 things --

- his next buck (similar issue, I suppose);

- his next meal;

- and his next Susie Schoolgirl.

I suppose we all worry about money, in our monetarist society.

The ancient Spartans did not allow gold or silver in Sparta. Everyone was either a soldier or a slave. Agriculture, goat herding and war were their only concerns.

The slaves did all the work, except the fighting.

The Germanic tribes of Roman Europe lived like the Spartans too, without money, but also without slaves either. They did their own farming and herding, with pigs goats and sheep.

Seems like money is a plague on society and civilization.

Good luck with that.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

AdamSmith said:


> ...
> 
> More people have probably been shot with a 9mm than with any other caliber pistol -- two world wars is why.


Here is a citation for you Paratrooper:

What caliber of gun kills the most people each year

But you need to keep reading until you get to the part about the 9mm's.

Enjoy.


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## lefty60 (Oct 13, 2012)

I call thread drift:anim_lol: Would like to see a range report on the new pistola:mrgreen:


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> That's funny. I had a friend in high school who only worried about 3 things --
> 
> - his next buck (similar issue, I suppose);
> 
> ...


Thanks for the history lesson......I think.

Life is nothing more than a constant presence of struggle vs. survival. Once retired, all you have left is time and money. Both spent equally and intelligently, will insure a fair amount of pleasure.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

AdamSmith said:


> The 22LR shot that killed RFK was a contact wound to his skull. If you can get that close to someone and surprise them, then sure, a 22LR would work fine. As such, it is a popular assassin's caliber, and NOT a self defense gun.
> 
> The 9mm is the perfect median caliber for self defense, particularly with hollow point ammo. The 38 revolver is just as good, although you can't shoot hammered groups as fast with the revolver, and you are normally limited to 6 cartridges with the revolver as well. The pistol will normally hold twice as many.
> 
> ...


Well considering my military service, LE service and over 35 years of practice and range time - *plus* - my adopted KISS philosophy, we're covered. My wife laughed at your response and stated, "I have probably put more bullets through targets on the range than that jokester* before *he was wet behind the ears." LOL


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

MaxResponse said:


> ...My wife laughed at your response and stated, "I have probably put more bullets through targets on the range than that jokester* before *he was wet behind the ears." LOL


Well, if she too is over 60 years old too, then maybe, sure.


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## qwiksdraw (May 11, 2012)

AdamSmith said:


> These Glock designs in non-Glock brand names are becoming more and more popular today.
> .... Maybe it truly is that the design is so much simpler than the classic 1911A1 or Browning original designs, that it therefore lends itself to a much less expensive pistol. Maybe less metal means less cost of production, as well.
> ....


Any polymer gun would have a much lower production cost. Since polymers were not available in 1911, the guns designed by Mr. Browning were very cost effective in the times they were built. Today's technologies allows very cost effective and consistent metal working for 1911's but still can not compare to the very low cost of polymer production. Glock has been quite successful is building a reliable gun on a polymer frame. That technology has allowed other manufacturers to offer many other fine guns to the market, which is a good deal for consumers.


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## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

qwiksdraw said:


> Any polymer gun would have a much lower production cost. Since polymers were not available in 1911, the guns designed by Mr. Browning were very cost effective in the times they were built. Today's technologies allows very cost effective and consistent metal working for 1911's but still can not compare to the very low cost of polymer production. Glock has been quite successful is building a reliable gun on a polymer frame. That technology has allowed other manufacturers to offer many other fine guns to the market, which is a good deal for consumers.


Yup, exactly. Same as how you spell C-H-E-A-P.


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## Reddog1 (Oct 26, 2011)

Good thread here but I just had to say that this constant debate regarding the stopping power of handgun calibers just always seems silly to me. There are just so many variables to take into consideration that it becomes pointless. We all have our favorite calibers that we swear by and are willing to stake our safety on. But for my two cents there is really no right answer here, just right opinions. So many tests have been run on this issue but still the debate goes on and on and folks even get testy about their choice. But having spent a long career in the Army I can tell you from my observations that when it comes to self protection, numbers, not so much the caliber, matters. I'm speaking now in terms of typical combat rifles and pistols. Just about the only guaranteed one shot weapon I have ever personally observed is the .50 cal MG. You get hit virtually anywhere and you aren't getting up again. When it comes to 9mm or .45 cal pistols they both can do the job with one shot ....... or not. Shot placement is everything and drives whether or not someone gets up again. In combat there is a lot of adrenaline flowing as well as confusion and anxiety and this is more than likely the same thing you would have in a darkened bedroom. In this case, ammo conservation is not a priority, staying alive is and just about everyone is going to point center of mass and fire several shots, whether you meant to or not, before worrying about where you hit them. If you are actually forced to do the unthinkable, shoot someone, my choice is multiple rounds, whether you are shooting a .22 mag or a .44 mag. You can sort out the details after you confirm to yourself you are still alive Hope I didn't step on toes here because I agree with just about everyone's opinion of the perfect caliber. incidentally, my wife has a Springer XDM .45 she carries in her purse, and I have a Springer 1911 .45 and a S&W 44 mag for house guns. All are loaded with HP rounds. Thanks for listening and be safe.


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## MaxResponse (Jan 27, 2014)

*SD9VE range time review....*

My wife and I drove out down to her mom's farm last weekend to burn through some old China Sport FMJ 9mm and some older HP rounds. Roughly three hundred and forty two rounds later...we both are very impressed. I set-up seven stations @ 5 yds. - 12 yds. - 20 yds. and then four staggered stations 10 yds. apart in what I call High-Low/In & Out shooting between 3 & 5 rounds. My wife hates this but at 50 years old...she is better now than ten years ago. Only having two magazines limits shooting time but we got our belly full for sure. At 5 and 12 yds. we both were surprised at the accuracy. My wife's best groups were 2.5 - 3 inches with the five shot group. Mine were roughly 2.25 inches with the FMJ but tightened up a hair to 2 inches with the HPs. For the money, we are very, very pleased. My wife experienced 2 FTF rounds and one stove pipe but once in her rhythm, no other issues took place.
For fun and since it hasn't been fired in some time, I brought my old Star PD .45ACP. Ran three boxes of China Sports FMJs through it (150 rds.) and it shot as well as the SD9VE in my hands but my wife (only on one mag) shot a group of 6 in 2 inches. A good shooting day for sure! Would we recommend a SD9VE? Yes and no. The gun, yes but in the .40 S&W caliber. 9mm is in such great demand, it is impossible to find it locally but .40 ammo is easily had. After watching my wife shoot my .45, she would have had zero issue with the .40.
Just wanted to add that the group sizes mentioned above are for the 5 and 12 yd. stations. Shooting out to 20 yds. and the High Low drills the group sizes increased to 4 inches with the first round typically being 1.5 - 2 inches out from the group. 
This morning after my wife read my review, asked why I failed to mention the trigger and I explained that most people buying a DAO pistol know what they are getting. She then pointed out first time buyers may need to know this and I agreed. Pretty stiff DOA trigger. I have read in magazines how stiff it was and that it could be modded. It caused typical first round 'jumpers' as I stated earlier but after the first shot, you expected it after that. A slow and steady trigger pull helps. A deal breaker by no means though.


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Good follow-up, thanks!


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