# New Browning 1911-380 Issue



## Motox

Bought a Browning a few days ago. I like the 1911's and I thought this little model might fit in the cars console.
Loaded the magazine and tried to cycle a few rounds through the gun without firing it. The first round will not load into the chamber. I cleaned and lubed the gun and magazine. The first round will not follow the correct angle of the magazine and the flat bullet end will not point inline with the top of the magazine. Haven't tried round nose rounds yet because I will be be firing personal defense rounds at some point and they should load into the chamber properly. The magazine is like new and so is the gun. Doesn't look like it has been fired. Bought it used at a local shop, that might be why it was back on the shelf for sale. Got a good price, but the gun needs to work. 
Any ideas how to correct the problem of the first few rounds in the magazine not allowing the feed at the proper angle? After the first 3 or 4 rounds, the mag works fine. I can tell what the issue is without even placing the mag into the gun. Can't even eject the rounds with my thumb when holding the mag in my hand.


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## MoMan

You solved your own problem. Get another mag. If you remove 3 or 4 rounds from the mag before installing it in the gun, then the rest cycle through without any issues, I would bet it's mag related.
I'm not a gunsmith, BUT, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!!


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## Steve M1911A1

Most feeding issues with 1911-style pistols revolve around magazine feed lips and feed ramps.
If the magazine isn't working well, try another magazine.
If that doesn't work, try doing a ramp-and-chamber polish job. (Ask me for instructions.)
If all that doesn't help, see a really good pistol-gunsmith.


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## SamBond

When the wife and I first put one of those in hand, we both wanted one.
Then I research problems with them. Unfortunately your report is typical.
I'd suggest talking to CS at Browning about it. Maybe they've figured out how to fix them by now? 
Please let us know how it goes...

Sam


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## denner12

You say you can't chamber the first three rounds ? Generally, you may want to get at least 50 rounds or so through the pistol if possible and see what the results are.. If that means loading less rounds to do so, so be it. Clean and lube and shoot again. Some pistols need to work a little before optimum performance. I'd try round nose at first before moving to hollow points. I'd likewise lock the slide back, load a magazine and use the slide release to load the pistol at first. Alot of issues may occur when you manually hand cycle rounds before you go out and attempt to shoot the pistol to let it work as it was designed to.


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## pic

If all else fails, check for a replacement follower. 
A follower with a greater upward angle. 

The bullets start to flatten out while loading leaving the top rounds less pronounced of the needed angle to feed.


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## Motox

I have a new magazine ordered, but it will be a browning mag because it seems no one else makes an aftermarket mag. I am sure the issue is related to the magazine, but I do not understand why the last 3 or 4 rounds do not fit into the mag at the correct angle. Once the rounds count is down to 4 or 5, the rounds lay perfectly parallel to each other. The tip of the bullet tips downward and will not line up with the bottom of the feed ramp. The diameter of the cartridge is the same so why would the rear of the case stack tight but leave enough room for the front to fall downward about an 1/8" on the top 3 or 4 rounds? 
I did polish the feed ramp but that will not matter when the tip of the bullet does not point upward enough to catch the bottom of the feed ramp.


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## Steve M1911A1

Motox said:


> ...The diameter of the cartridge is the same so why would the rear of the case stack tight but leave enough room for the front to fall downward about an 1/8" on the top 3 or 4 rounds?...


Maybe it's because the magazine is wrongly trapezoidal in cross-section, rather than properly rectangular. It may therefore be tighter at the rear, and looser at the front.

Measure the inside width at a few places, with the inside-measurement jaws of a decent caliper.

It could also be that the inside measurements of the magazine are inconsistent, from top to middle to bottom. But you'll probably have to measure that from outside.


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## denner12

I'd try Wolff extra power magazine springs, sounds like the stock mag spring isn't keeping the nose of the cartridge up(i.e nose dive) as I call it. Likewise, it may be best to contact Browning as well to get their input.


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## berettatoter

Are the magazine springs in properly, and not "reversed"?


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## Steve M1911A1

berettatoter said:


> Are the magazine springs in properly, and not "reversed"?


Hmmm...
Great suggestion!
Wish I'd'a thought of that!


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## Clerk

Motox said:


> Bought a Browning a few days ago. I like the 1911's and I thought this little model might fit in the cars console.
> Loaded the magazine and tried to cycle a few rounds through the gun without firing it. The first round will not load into the chamber. I cleaned and lubed the gun and magazine. The first round will not follow the correct angle of the magazine and the flat bullet end will not point inline with the top of the magazine. Haven't tried round nose rounds yet because I will be be firing personal defense rounds at some point and they should load into the chamber properly. The magazine is like new and so is the gun. Doesn't look like it has been fired. Bought it used at a local shop, that might be why it was back on the shelf for sale. Got a good price, but the gun needs to work.
> Any ideas how to correct the problem of the first few rounds in the magazine not allowing the feed at the proper angle? After the first 3 or 4 rounds, the mag works fine. I can tell what the issue is without even placing the mag into the gun. Can't even eject the rounds with my thumb when holding the mag in my hand.


Motox,

Stay away from the flat nosed ammo. The 380acp cartridge is a odd size and most small pistols get finicky with odd sized ammo like the flat nosed. Stick with the old fashioned round nosed version and I'm much sure your issues will disappear.


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## SamBond

A _good_ 380 auto pistol will function with any quality jacketed ammo, hollow point, flat nose, whatever....

Sam


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## SamBond

Motox said:


> I have a new magazine ordered, but it will be a browning mag because it seems no one else makes an aftermarket mag. I am sure the issue is related to the magazine, but I do not understand why the last 3 or 4 rounds do not fit into the mag at the correct angle. Once the rounds count is down to 4 or 5, the rounds lay perfectly parallel to each other. The tip of the bullet tips downward and will not line up with the bottom of the feed ramp. The diameter of the cartridge is the same so why would the rear of the case stack tight but leave enough room for the front to fall downward about an 1/8" on the top 3 or 4 rounds?
> I did polish the feed ramp but that will not matter when the tip of the bullet does not point upward enough to catch the bottom of the feed ramp.


Wondering if you have been able to get this pistol up and running?
Please let us know...

Sam


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## Motox

The gun has not been "fixed". I received the new Browning Magazine. Took the new magazine and the original one that I had tried to "improve" to the range a few weeks ago. Gun ran two different brands of ammo ok for the first 2 full magazine loads through both magazines (4 magazine loads total). Slow, single shots and watching for any issues to arise. I thought the gun would be fine until I started a few double taps. Both magazines began to malfunction. Needless to say, this will not be a CC gun for me as it is not dependable. I have not found any aftermarket magazine suppliers for this gun and the new factory Browning magazine did not correct the jamming issue. Too bad, I thought Browning was a reliable handgun. I may consider sending it to the factory, not sure if they can even correct the issues. After all Browning built and tested the gun, they should've had these issues corrected before putting their name on it, but right now it is sitting on a shelf in the safe


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## denner12

I'm betting it's not the magazines from what I'm reading at this point. Perhaps a damaged or out of spec extractor, damaged or out of spec ejector, too much recoil spring are some other possibilities. Steve likewise mentioned issues 1911's may have with rough feed ramps needing polished. I'd call and send the pistol back to Browning and state your observations, malfunctions and attempts to correct the issue. Have you called Browning, especially if the pistol is under warranty?


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## SamBond

Motox said:


> The gun has not been "fixed". .......
> ........ Needless to say, this will not be a CC gun for me as it is not dependable. ........
> .........., I thought Browning was a reliable handgun. *I may consider sending it to the factory*, not sure if they can even correct the issues. After all Browning built and tested the gun, they should've had these issues corrected before putting their name on it, but right now it is sitting on a shelf in the safe


Browning should really, really, really get that defective gun back for repair.
Even if it takes a long time to get it back, or if you have to send it back more than once anything is better than a ~$600+/- paper weight. IMO
It's not up to the customer to troubleshoot and fix a new gun. Who knows, maybe they know what they did wrong and how to make it right.

Sam


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## berettatoter

Yeah man, I have really wanted to buy one of these little 1911 style .380's, but for the money? I would take a risk on a 225$ pistol, that if it didn't run well would be used for plinking at the range, but 600$? No way.


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## SamBond

berettatoter said:


> Yeah man, I have really wanted to buy one of these little 1911 style .380's, but for the money? I would take a risk on a 225$ pistol, that if it didn't run well would be used for plinking at the range, but 600$? No way.


No way is right!
I am soooo glad we didn't buy one right there on the spot when we first saw them at a gun show.
It's to bad, those are the neatest little things.

Sam


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## Motox

Saw the empty box for the Browning 380 today and decided to grab the gun out of the safe and send it back. Made sure no ammo was in the package, boxed everything up in the original box, enclosed a letter of explanation and took it to the local UPS store. They could not mail it, stated that all firearms must be mailed from the main headquarters. Drove to the main office and they stated it must be shipped overnight express- $75. Took it to the local gun store that I always buy guns from, time to trade it in. They said they used to handle Browning handguns but now only the long guns. I asked about a trade in and they offered $275. They stated those guns have major issues and they no longer sell them. Couldn't argue with that but I was not trading the paperweight in for $275. 
Question; If I pay the $75 to ship it to the factory, will I be charged another $75 for return shipping? Anybody else go through this mess? 
I did try to call the factory. 4 calls to the Arnold Missouri location, all unanswered. Called the main office in Utah and no answer. It was not after 4 PM in Utah.


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## Shipwreck

No, they will ship it back for free if fixed under warranty. If not under warranty - call and ask if return shipping is free. It should still be.

Also - you should call Browning to see if they will send you a shipping label. Even if they charge you for the label, they can get a cheaper price than you can. It could save you some $$$$


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## Steve M1911A1

Write a letter to the CEO of Browning, probably in Utah, explaining your problem, and noting that you have received no useful response from Browning. Detail your futile attempts to speak with someone who could be helpful.
Include the information that, for you to ship back a defective pistol, you would be charged $75.00 by the shipper. Politely demand a pre-paid return label.

That ought to raise someone's interest.
Can't hurt, anyway.


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## SamBond

You beat me to it Steve... Politely is important.

Sam


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## Shipwreck

I re-read the thread, because after Steve's post, I thought maybe I had missed a post where you had contacted the manufacturer already and they turned you down on covering the shipping.

But, I don't see that. It is not that unusual to have a gun not work. You went to a gun store who told you that they don't carry Browning pistols because they don't work well. And, you stated youy wonder if even they can fix the gun, because they should have tested it already.

Unfortunately - no company makes 100% of their products trouble free. Every company has issues. I haven't seen any post stating that you called the company directly. Do so. Tell them what you tried. Ask them to take the gun back for repair. And, ask that they cover postage, because it will cost you $75. THEN see what happens. How they treat you goes a long way in setting their reputation.

Right now, you are upset, but unless I am missing a post, I don't see that you've called Browning. Don't dispair. You can likely get this resolved. If they refuse to cover shipping, ask to speak with a supervisor.

Even if they charge you for a label - it will be cheaper than if YOU pay. 

I wanna say that Springfield USA will charge $25 or $30 and send you a shipping label (for things not covered in warranty). That's still better than $75 if Browning has something like that too


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## Motox

I had called Browning back in May prior to attempting to ship the gun back for repair and spoke to a factory rep. He was polite but did not offer to send a shipping label and I didn't ask for a shipping label during that conversation. I didn't know the shipping cost at that time. When I was quoted $75 by UPS I began to rethink sending the gun.
As some of you suggested, I called the factory again today and was connected to a rep the first try. I explained the situation and he quickly stated that sending the gun back would cost me nothing. The pre-paid shipping label should be emailed to me today, and if covered under warranty ( they find it hard to promise warranty over the phone, depends on the condition of the gun), return shipping is also covered. It looks like it will be shipped out tomorrow.


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## denner12

https://www.browning.com/support/parts-service/return-for-service-form.html

You followed the instructions and filled out the form/ Hopefully they will send you a shipping label and at least pay for return shipping if the pistol is for warranty repair? I'd make sure I called them first, they may have you send it to a local recommended Browning Authorized Service Center.


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## SamBond

Good for you Motox.
Be sure to let us know how everything works out with Browning and that pistol. 
Here's hoping you end up with a reliable shooter. 


Sam


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## Motox

Got the little 1911-380 back a few days ago. Repair order states "two magazines and minor repair work". Took the gun to the range today and ran about 50 rounds through it using both new magazines. I marked the new mags with a 1 and a 2 just in case anything reoccurred, I could tell if it was with one mag or both. Only had one issue, which was about the same thing as before. I attached a picture of the issue. Ran the gun till it was empty, dropped the empty mag and slammed a full mag into the weapon. I made sure the mag was locked in. Hit the slide release and had target on sight and pulled the trigger. NOTHING. The new round was jammed partially in the chamber and a second round was smashed into the first round. Had to fight the slide back and drop the mag. After that the unfired round fell out of the bottom of the weapon. To me, it is not a reliable weapon yet. Haven't sent pictures or communicated with Browning yet.


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## denner12

Mmm, not good. It seems from doing a little research you're not the only one having this similar issue. Many post's suspect badly designed magazine feed lips. The picture shown looks like an extraction issue however.

I'd 1st suspect an extractor in need of tuning. If it were me I'd buy some snap caps and cycle them through the pistol to see if you can replicate the issue w/o having to live fire.

Are the cases being ejected uniformly when you live fire?


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## Steve M1911A1

I'm no expert, but I suggest that it is indeed a magazine-feed-lips issue.
The extractor pulled the empty out of the pistol's chamber properly, but that maneuver was interrupted by the fact that the empty case dragged against the next round coming up, which therefore interrupted the ejection cycle.

The extracted empty should not have an interference relationship with the next round coming up out of the magazine.
Therefore, I suspect that the magazine's feed lips allow that next round to rise too far upward.

The difference between the appropriate rise of the next cartridge and an inappropriate, interfering rise may be pretty small.
But that's what it looks like to me.

*Rethinking The Issue:*
Perhaps the easiest attempt at a solution would be to (potentially) sacrifice one magazine, by filing the magazine-catch slot in the magazine's side wall so that the magazine sits just a tiny bit lower in the pistol's grip.
The necessary difference may be mere thousandths of an inch-just a couple of file strokes off of the top inside edge of the magazine's magazine-catch slot.
If it doesn't work, all you've lost is one magazine. If it does work, well, Bingo!


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## pic

With Angled magazines , the ammo starts to flatten out because of the lip of the shell.


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## Motox

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I'm no expert, but I suggest that it is indeed a magazine-feed-lips issue.
> The extractor pulled the empty out of the pistol's chamber properly, but that maneuver was interrupted by the fact that the empty case dragged against the next round coming up, which therefore interrupted the ejection cycle.
> 
> The extracted empty should not have an interference relationship with the next round coming up out of the magazine.
> Therefore, I suspect that the magazine's feed lips allow that next round to rise too far upward.
> 
> The difference between the appropriate rise of the next cartridge and an inappropriate, interfering rise may be pretty small.
> But that's what it looks like to me.
> 
> *Rethinking The Issue:*
> Perhaps the easiest attempt at a solution would be to (potentially) sacrifice one magazine, by filing the magazine-catch slot in the magazine's side wall so that the magazine sits just a tiny bit lower in the pistol's grip.
> The necessary difference may be mere thousandths of an inch-just a couple of file strokes off of the top inside edge of the magazine's magazine-catch slot.
> If it doesn't work, all you've lost is one magazine. If it does work, well, Bingo!


The rounds in the chamber are both unfired. Neither round fit into the chamber and that is likely a good thing. The full magazine was inserted into the gun, the slide release was dropped, slide moved forward and it tried to put two rounds in the chamber from a full magazine. Browning supplied both new magazines as part of the "repair". I tried modifying magazines at my expense. Everything went back to the factory several weeks ago. This is the first 50 round box that I tried to run through the gun. In my opinion, the gun has not been repaired and if the factory can't fix it, maybe they can buy it back. I am not going to waste my time trying to fix an issue that the factory should be able to correct. Anyway you look at it, the gun is not reliable at this time.


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## SamBond

You might try 'slingshoting' it in that you pull the slide all the way back and release it to chamber a round.


Sam


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## Bigbeer

New to the forum and first post. Found this thread by searching for an issue I have with my 1911-380, the exact same one Motox describes. I love the gun, its size, concealability, accuracy and its function, as long as you put five or fewer rounds in the magazines. 

After I first encountered the problem on maybe the second trip to the range, I thought it must be the magazine. I bought mine at Cabelas and they'd shorted me one of the mags that I didn't realize was supposed to be included, so I bought a second. Same problem. Talked to a lot of people who still said magazine. I bought two more. What I've wound up with is four magazines that I can only fill halfway.

I had an identical nose-dive problem with my PPK/S. However, that was after many years ownership and a couple of magazines that had all too often had been stored loaded and were obviously weaker than when new. A click online to Wolff gun springs and my PPK is back to as-new functionality with zero feed issues. However, similar increased-force springs for the 1911-380 are still unavailable online to the best of my knowledge. A call to Wolff this morning requesting their pending availability and he said, "Haven't gotten to them yet." I anxiously await their availability since, given Motox's experience, returning it to the factory will do no good.


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## denner12

Have you tried the BROWNING 1910 & 1922 XP MAG SPRINGs


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## Bigbeer

I have not. Are they similar length?


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## denner12

The 1922 model is an eight round capacity .380 The model 1910 has a six round capacity. In my experience as long as the magazine spring will fit the follower, has approximately the same amount of coils or same tension, same style design(i.e single stack), same caliber and round count it may work for you.


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## Motox

The factory replaced the 380 with a new one. They stated that if they could repair the gun, they would replace it. Picked up the new gun from UPS last week, opened the box and looked it, took it to the local gun store and traded it for a 357 wheel gun. I do not a weapon that I cannot trust to operate correctly and I lost confidence in this model Browning. Some may have this little gun and claim that it works perfect, but I lost trust in this gun so I resolved the issue. I still have my 45 XDS for CC and it has always run perfect.


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## pic

Motox said:


> The factory replaced the 380 with a new one. They stated that if they could repair the gun, they would replace it. Picked up the new gun from UPS last week, opened the box and looked it, took it to the local gun store and traded it for a 357 wheel gun. I do not a weapon that I cannot trust to operate correctly and I lost confidence in this model Browning. Some may have this little gun and claim that it works perfect, but I lost trust in this gun so I resolved the issue. I still have my 45 XDS for CC and it has always run perfect.


Good strategy/decision, there was a time when I wanted the best reliability available. 
My wheel gun ,


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## pic

In my own opinion, not that it matters much on this thread anymore. Hahaha.
I believe a strengthening of the mag spring or a look at the followers foundation of support where the spring meets the actual follower in order to utilize the stronger spring allowing the bullet Angie the same for a full mag, not just a 3/4 mag reliability . 

The top end of the bullet does get heavy lopsided with multiple bullets in a magazine. 
That's where the stiffer spring needs to do it's work. But we need to ensure we have a solid spring connection to the follower , to maintain the proper angle.

If 3/4 mags are feeding fine,


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