# 38 special in 357



## billmac (Oct 3, 2013)

Read some back and forth about use of 38 spcl in 357 mag wheel guns. Works. Watch for carbon build up forward end chambers & greater than average deposits on forcing cone. Both need thorough removal before using longer 357 brass and cartridges. An awful lot of hand gunners reload. Here's the answer: Use 357 brass and load it to 38, 38+ or 357 specs as you wish (ALWAYS, of course, consulting AND FOLLOWING a reputable ammo makers manual) Excellent are Hornady's, Speer's, Sierra's and Lyman's. There are others such as powder maker Hodgdon's data.


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## all357mag (May 20, 2013)

Hogwash! You can shoot 38's all day long in 357, no ill effects! Clean your gun like you should be doing anyway, you won't have any problems.


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## KampfJaeger (Sep 25, 2013)

I have to agree with that. I've been shooting .38s out of .357s for thirty years and never noticed much of a difference. I have read similar things on the Internet, but if they do create more fouling it is so little that I can't tell.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

if your using shorter brass lead bullet wadcutters 38's where would the buildup occur ?
obviously further inside the cylinder chamber then your longer brass 357 magnums.
you head to the range
You shoot 500 short brass 38 lead wadcutters,
And at the end of the session,, start shooting your self defense loads. 357 longer brass high velocity metal jacketed rounds.
What should you be aware of ? If anything at all. thanks


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

If you shoot a steady diet of .38 Specials in a .357 magnum, and do not clean each chamber of the cylinder properly, you will develop a carbon ring that will keep building up until it starts pushing the longer .357 cases back into the frame, inhibiting the turning of the cylinder. Knock that carbon ring out, and you are good to go again with .357 ammo.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

You know I've actually seen 357 Magnum chambers with not only carbon rings, but, 'flame etching' on the forward end of the cylinders. Can you use 38 Special in a 357 Magnum? Yes, the general rule of thumb, however, is not to do too much of it. 

(Not that I really care as long as it's not my 357 Magnum.)  

When it comes to loading 38 Special cases to 357 Magnum pressure and velocity? As long as you don't suddenly drop dead and someone else inherits your supplies, I guess you can get away with it. People, though, sometimes do stupid things with guns and ammunition: loading 380's into 9's, (and visa versa) loading 9's into 40's, loading 40's in 45's - whatever. Even if you carefully mark the box once you remove those, 'red hot' 38's and start using them (and exposing them to others) at the range: 

ALL BETS ARE OFF! 

(And, yes, I've seen stupid things like this actually happen to otherwise intelligent gunmen. It's never a good idea to, 'reload your own potential problems'.)


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Bisley said:


> If you shoot a steady diet of .38 Specials in a .357 magnum, and do not clean each chamber of the cylinder properly, you will develop a carbon ring that will keep building up until it starts pushing the longer .357 cases back into the frame, inhibiting the turning of the cylinder. Knock that carbon ring out, and you are good to go again with .357 ammo.


Do you clean the forcing cone ? The thread starter here mentions the forcing cone is more apt to buildup. 
I did some research on the forcing cone. Because I never heard the term before.
It can create side splatter , that I have experienced.


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## KampfJaeger (Sep 25, 2013)

Of course. When you clean a revolver you clean it. If you don't clean it carbon will build up, like in any other firearm. While it's true that shooting .38s will allow more carbon in the cylinder, because the burning gun powder comes into contact with more cylinder wall, it is MADE to do this and contain the pressure, which is why the cylinder is beefy. The forcing cone always gets built up carbon (Q-tips work well to clean it), and it builds up on the end of the cylinder walls, even using .357s. .38s are way lower pressure than most .357 MAGNUM loads. Flame etching probably means you don't have a positive lock-up between your cylinder and forcing cone, but it isn't because you're shooting lower pressure .38s, which will flash less between the cylinder and forcing cone than higher pressure .357s. Your .357 will last allot longer if you shoot .38s, or lower pressure .357s, period.

This stuff comes from some gun writers in the 1940s who hated the .357, and it has literally been carried forward into internet legend. There is no merit to it. It is totally illogical, and physically impossible. The ONLY thing I would suggest when shooting .38s out of your .357 is to hit your cylinders a little harder with the brass brush, and if it's really dirty throw a patch of Ed's Red down each of them before you do it.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

My brother visited last week and this week. Besides golf, I took him to our new range.
We shot a variety of handguns. But, he did not want to shoot my Ruger Superhawk Alaskan.

I put six rounds of .45 Long Colt through it. Factory Remington 250 grain round-nose.
Then six rounds of .454 Casull 260 grain Winchester full power hunting loads (1,800 fps).
Uh, the .454 brought two guys down from the rifle range to see "what's up". :mrgreen:

Before cleaning, I could see "residue" in the chambers from the shorter LC rounds. But,
at the range the .454's slid in with no problem. After firing, both rounds were a "bit sticky"
to eject. Like normal.

At home, I loaded more .454. They slid in with no problem, like at the range. 
And, unfired, they fell out. So, I guess a "very few" short rounds are no problem. YMMV. :smt1099


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

KampfJaeger said:


> Of course. When you clean a revolver you clean it. If you don't clean it carbon will build up, like in any other firearm. While it's true that shooting .38s will allow more carbon in the cylinder, because the burning gun powder comes into contact with more cylinder wall, it is MADE to do this and contain the pressure, which is why the cylinder is beefy. The forcing cone always gets built up carbon (Q-tips work well to clean it), and it builds up on the end of the cylinder walls, even using .357s. .38s are way lower pressure than most .357 MAGNUM loads. Flame etching probably means you don't have a positive lock-up between your cylinder and forcing cone, but it isn't because you're shooting lower pressure .38s, which will flash less between the cylinder and forcing cone than higher pressure .357s. Your .357 will last allot longer if you shoot .38s, or lower pressure .357s, period.
> 
> This stuff comes from some gun writers in the 1940s who hated the .357, and it has literally been carried forward into internet legend. There is no merit to it. It is totally illogical, and physically impossible. The ONLY thing I would suggest when shooting .38s out of your .357 is to hit your cylinders a little harder with the brass brush, and if it's really dirty throw a patch of Ed's Red down each of them before you do it.


Where is the forcing cone located?
Is the forcing cone bigger then the cylinder chambers?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> My brother visited last week and this week. Besides golf, I took him to our new range.
> We shot a variety of handguns. But, he did not want to shoot my Ruger Superhawk Alaskan.
> 
> I put six rounds of .45 Long Colt through it. Factory Remington 250 grain round-nose.
> ...


I haven't shot the 454 yet, better use a two handed grip?


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

pic said:


> Where is the forcing cone located? Is the forcing cone bigger than the cylinder chambers?


The forcing cone is located at the rear end of the barrel; (opposite the muzzle) and it is slightly smaller than the actual diameter of the bullet, itself - Which means it is, also, smaller than the cartridge chamber(s) as well.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Glock Doctor said:


> The forcing cone is located at the rear end of the barrel; (opposite the muzzle) and it is slightly smaller than the actual diameter of the bullet, itself - Which means it is, also, smaller than the cartridge chamber(s) as well.


Just found some info on the forcing cone

Click link http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/documents/Inst-152.pdf


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## KampfJaeger (Sep 25, 2013)

Think throat on your automatics. On a revolver it's simply exposed, but it serves the same purpose. It's where the bullet accelerates into the lands and grooves and begins to spin. It's also the point at which the cylinder imperfectly meets the barrel, and a small escape of gas is inevitable. Over time if not cleaned and addressed it can cause the "flame etching" mentioned earlier. I've seen it on poorly cared for revolvers. 

The forcing cone we use today was actually a huge innovation on the early, black powder, percussion revolvers. You can imagine what would happen (and sometimes did) if too much gas and flame escaped from the front of the cylinder and ignited the other barrels... Metallic cartridges ended this possibility once and for all...


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Actually the flame etching,or gas cutting,happens no matter what on a revolver due to the cylinder gap.The severity depends on the load,mellow loads do it to a lesser degree and hot loads accelerate it.There's a lot of pressure and temperature coming out of that gap and the topstrap is right there to take the abuse.Ask someone that's done it what it's like when your hand is up there when you touch one off,burns,cuts,it isn't pretty.Newer guns are better about it but it is inevitable.

Another problem in the older guns was frame stretching from the bullet and pressure slamming into the forcing cone.This was a problem back when Elmer Keith and the boys were hotrodding things with their wildcats,which some became a new round and gun like the 44mag and Smith's N frame to handle it.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

pic said:


> I haven't shot the 454 yet, better use a two handed grip?


That's a pretty good idea. Here's a bit of data for comparison. I wouldn't shoot either "one-handed".
My girlfriend wanted to shoot the .454 after I "destroyed" a water-filled milk jug at 25 yards.
She fired ONE shot. And loudly said some things "not safe for work". :mrgreen:

Hornady Custom Ammunition *44 Remington Magnum* 240 Grain XTP
Muzzle Velocity: 1350 fps
*Muzzle Energy: 971 ft. lbs.*

Hornady Custom Ammunition *454 Casull* 240 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow 
•Muzzle Velocity: 1900 fps 
*•Muzzle Energy: 1923 ft. lbs.*

And, of course, due to the S&W big shot who couldn't stand to be in "second place",
we have the S&W .460 Magnum and the S&W .500 Magnum.
One is the "most velocity" and one is the "most energy" of production handguns.

It is "left to the student" to determine which is which. :smt1099

In the same Hornady ammo as above, one does,
•Muzzle Velocity: 2200 fps 
•Muzzle Energy: 2149 ft. lbs.

And the other does,
•Muzzle Velocity: 1425 fps 
•Muzzle Energy: 2254 ft. lbs.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

DanP_from_AZ said:


> That's a pretty good idea. Here's a bit of data for comparison. I wouldn't shoot either "one-handed".
> My girlfriend wanted to shoot the .454 after I "destroyed" a water-filled milk jug at 25 yards.
> She fired ONE shot. And loudly said some things "not safe for work". :mrgreen:
> 
> ...


Lol, was the 454 equipped with a scope


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

rex said:


> Actually the flame etching,or gas cutting,happens no matter what on a revolver due to the cylinder gap.The severity depends on the load,mellow loads do it to a lesser degree and hot loads accelerate it.There's a lot of pressure and temperature coming out of that gap and the topstrap is right there to take the abuse.Ask someone that's done it what it's like when your hand is up there when you touch one off,burns,cuts,it isn't pretty.Newer guns are better about it but it is inevitable.
> 
> Another problem in the older guns was frame stretching from the bullet and pressure slamming into the forcing cone.This was a problem back when Elmer Keith and the boys were hotrodding things with their wildcats,which some became a new round and gun like the 44mag and Smith's N frame to handle it.


 That makes a lot of sense, whatever can't go down the barrel is gonna take the path of least resistance .
Best to stand behind the guy shooting the revolver ,lol.


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## AAnderson (Oct 24, 2013)

I love my 38 Special and 357 Magnums. If you use good powder and bullets, dirty barrels or build up shouldn't be a problem. I reload my own which I have done for over 20 years. I get all my bullets from Quality Bullets for Reloading I have loaded those 180 grain flat points to 1400 FPS and use them in my Taurus 7 shot revolver for concealed carry as a serious self defense round. A 357 magnum can handle the 180 grain, the 158 grain, or the 125 grain bullets. For the 38 Specials I only use the 125 grain or 158 grain bullets. I bought a 2 shot derringer fun and am looking forward to trying the 125 and 158 grain bullets in it just for fun.


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## Garyshome (Nov 6, 2013)

I keep all my hog legs clean!


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