# What are the best sights for personal defense?



## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

I am a precision slow fire shooter who is converting to personal defense and carry training. The sights I used to enjoy for precision shooting are about worthless in dim light and in a panic. I don't even know if it's possible to acquire a sight picture in a panic. I have been involved in two fires at work and one of them was personal entrapment and I did not do well in panic mode. It's like there was a disconnect between my brain and my hands and everything went into slow motion. Fine motor control disappeared. I literally felt like a 3 year old. This was the eye opener that I need some real training. 

Anyway, a quick online glance at sighting systems and the XS Big Dot looked appealing. Just one big dot to look for rather than trying to look for a bunch of dots. Nothing to line up. I honestly don't think I could do more than to find one big bright dot once the adrenalin is flowing. Do assault victims really have to time to acquire a sight picture or are they just pointing and shooting? I am new to this and have no experience. I am not a cop, soldier, personal body guard or security guard, so I am not going to be wading into danger....I am just somebody who wants to stay alive.

So in reality I am looking for the best sighting system to use at close range when in full panic mode. It may be poor at everything else and that is ok. I want to keep it as simple as possible. 

Your thoughts?


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

In the situation you describe, 'point-and-shoot'. No sights involved. It takes some practice - basically muscle training - to point the gun while looking at the threat. There are proponents of laser sights that accomplish the same 'look at the threat' result. I think I would prefer to practice point-and-shoot without the laser, at least at first. The practice serves for more than to develop serviceable accuracy; it also makes it possible to do the task when panic has replaced deliberation.

All of this does not remove the necessity of knowing that the threat is real. If you shoot your wife on her way back from the bathroom, there may be repercussions.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

hillman said:


> All of this does not remove the necessity of knowing that the threat is real. If you shoot your wife on her way back from the bathroom, there may be repercussions.


I busted out laughing when I read that. She would be so pissed I would not even be allowed a bb gun for the rest of my life.

But it's also a very valid point. I am a shift worker and I work out in the middle of the night. I go out of my way to avoid contact with others at all costs. Many, many times I have either hid myself or taken a different route when jogging at 2 am rather than risk running into a stranger. I prefer avoidance over me asserting my right to be there. I also carry pepper spray. If forced to, I would much rather pepper spray someones dog rather than shoot the animal, in a subdivision, in the middle of the night.

I take the low road, am conciliatory and deescalate situations when armed. And usually when unarmed as well.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

There isn't much difference between precision-pistol-shooting sights and those for self-defense.
The self-defense oriented sights are coarser, with more light showing in the rear-sight notch, on both sides of the front blade.

The real difference is one of technique.
The self-defense shooter practices acquiring a very quick, very coarse sight picture by means of "muscle memory" training and continuing repetition.
But even though a good sight picture is required, achieving a fine, high-precision sight picture is not only unnecessary, but can also get you killed.
All you need is _good sight alignment_.

The self-defense shooter "aims" at the center of one mass of body structure or another. After all, people do not go about with bullseyes pinned to their shirts.
Aiming generally at the center of body mass in the area of the heart-and-lungs complex is a good place to begin learning the technique.

Starting with a firm, two-hand grip, bring the (empty) pistol up from "rest position" to meet where your eyes are already looking. Use an empty, featureless wall, rather than sighting on an object or target.
Don't let your eyes search for the gun. Bring your gun's sights to your eyes. Learn the hand-and-arm position that brings the well-aligned sights to your eyes.
Practice doing that, no more than 10 minutes per day, until you've "got" it. Every time.

Now try it against a basic human shape, on a firing range, with a loaded gun, at about seven yards.
Look at the target. Quickly bring the sights to your eyes, and equally quickly fire a shot.
Nothing like bullseyes, right?

You're on your way.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I really like the Trijicon HD line or Ameriglo Cap Sights.

*Ameriglo CAP Sights | Jerking the Trigger

Trijicon HD Night Sights | The Bang Switch*

Both are available in orange or yellow/green front.

I tried the XS Big Dot sights and Small Dot Sights and did not care for them.

I like the big bright fronts but still like the notch and post orientation / edges.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

You've received some sage advice so far. The XS Big Dots tend to be among the better close combat sights from what a number of reviewers claim. But I like the responses that tend towards learning to point and fire that gun quickly on a close target. I train this way myself and use paper plates at defensive distances (9 to 21 feet) in draw/fire exercises. It does work and you can send effective rounds to your target.

Learning to do this is a discipline but not as difficult as it may appear. If you practice shooting quickly when using your sights, it is pretty natural to move to just using the gun on the target (what many call point shooting). Good, consistent, and frequent training and practice is your best friend if the time ever comes when you might need to call upon your sidearm in an extreme encounter.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen. Good stuff for sure. Tried some of it out tonight and made real progress.

VAMarine those Ameriglo CAP sights looked pretty impressive. Thank you.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

It will be a preference issue most of the time. A lot of people like a night sight, some just a three dot sight. I would do a search for kinesthetic shooting. I've actually posted a couple articles on here about defensive/kinesthetic shooting that may help provide some foundational knowledge for you. Have a look under tactics & techniques in forums. There are some varying views on the subject, but study, practice, maybe get some professional training.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

This is also a pretty good view. I think this guy explains the defensive shooting technique pretty well. There are two video links.

Rob Pincus on sight alignment/picture | Geek With a Gun


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

One of the quotes from Pincus that is VERY valuable to defensive encounters is this;

"We don't need that high of a level of precision for most defensive shootings."

This is true. And this is why I train like I mentioned in my above post #6. I do train for precision as well but I separate my training activities into several actions and one is as I explained. Get that gun out and get rounds going to target. The point being my shots are going to be hitting good areas, not tight little one inch groups when doing this, but good and effective areas and that's what counts. I figure that if I have to use my gun, I am just not going to have the time to worry about a solid sight picture for a tight group. What I am going to be worrying about is getting that gun into play and putting rounds on the target faster than my target can do the same to me.... or stab me or bludgeon me or whatever he intends to do.

Yes, spend the time practicing your accuracy and consistency. But also spend a lot of time shooting quickly and hitting areas on your target that are going to at worse, cause him to pause a moment while you send more rounds into his body, or at best put him down at the first hit.

And make sure you keep both eyes open when doing any of this. You do need both of them. This is no time to squint that weak eye while trying to get a sight picture (shouldn't do this anyway). If you train with both eyes open, this will come naturally. Pincus talks about how with both eyes open, you will see two targets when concentrating on that front sight. This won't happen if you do all of this correctly. What will happen is that unconsciously, your dominate eye will take over anyway unknown to you. Try it. Get a sight picture on an object and then close each eye independently. You'll note that with one eye, the target remains stationary but with the other, it shifts. So use both eyes. It works.

If your range does not allow draw and fire practice, either find another range that does or shoot from the low ready position. You might also consider picking up your gun from a shooting table/desk and firing it to simulate a draw/fire motion. But do include this sort of shooting in your range time.


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## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

+1 for Trijicon HD sights.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

I really like xs big dots. Fast easy accurate


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

> I have been involved in two fires at work and one of them was personal entrapment


You're not a police officer, etc. What do you do? Just curious.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I use plain old factory sights on my 1911a1. Fixed sights now it is up to you to learn to come on target with point shooting, front sight shooting, and aimed shooting. All 3 involve muscle memory and can get the basics with an empty handgun and daily practice. Start slow drawing and coming on to target then repeat as you get the mechanics down right you start speeding up.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

pic said:


> You're not a police officer, etc. What do you do? Just curious.


We manufacture foam food containers. Isopentane is part of the extrusion process and is easily ignited by static electricity. We have a lot of fires.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

tony pasley said:


> I use plain old factory sights on my 1911a1. Fixed sights now it is up to you to learn to come on target with point shooting, front sight shooting, and aimed shooting. All 3 involve muscle memory and can get the basics with an empty handgun and daily practice. Start slow drawing and coming on to target then repeat as you get the mechanics down right you start speeding up.


I have practiced this twice and was surprised that I could hit the target without the sights in pretty much the same place as I did when I sighted. Gives me hope.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Another training aid is a laser cartridge so when you pull the trigger it lights up where you are pointing at. I have used a 1" round sticker on the back of a door at 48" off the ground. Make sure the pistol is empty then draw and touch the dot making sure you have a correct grip and straight line from elbow thru wrist. once you have that down start backing away from the dot. Hope this helps


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

VAMarine said:


> I really like the Trijicon HD line or Ameriglo Cap Sights.
> 
> *Ameriglo CAP Sights | Jerking the Trigger
> 
> ...


Thanks to your post here, I decided to do some research on Ameriglo sights and found that the Pro Operator rear with a notch width of .180 inches and the Pro front at a width of .140 inches would be nearly ideal for one of my Glock 23's. So I ordered those. I'll report how they do once I get them on that gun.


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

My Ruger SR40C with XS Big Dot Sights. I have a new Glock G19 plan on putting same on them

A friend's borrowed Sig P239 has similar sights. But they no longer glow n dark


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## jeager106 (Sep 27, 2014)

Sights? Close range personal defense & sights?
I don't use the sights or at least I'm not aware that I do.
I do like the looks of the XS Big Dot tho and would like to put them on my G-23.
I've shot more ammo in handguns than most people do I suppose. I'm retired l.e.o. & deadly forcde instructor so I did a lot of
shooting. At close range all you need do is put the front sight on your target & practice.
It will become instinctive. By close range I mean 7 yards or so and less.
I don't practice at a set distance, never measure distance as I don't want to build muscle memory that way.
It's been a long time since I was disabled but if memory serves me right I was taught to start out at close range using the sights
and practice slow fire until I became familiar with the weapon then gradually speed up and not even consciously look at the sights.
I hope that makes sense and is helpful.


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

Lots of great suggestions and ideas from everyone.

Thank you gentlemen.

I like the idea of learning not to depend on them at close range.


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## CeltKnight (Oct 5, 2014)

Just one more here in favor of practice. I was my department's main firearms instructor prior to retirement (actually retired as their ONLY firearms instructor but that netted me life-time range privileges, LOL), was also a defensive tactics instructor including use-of-force, etc., etc., blah-blah-blah. I have those huge white dot "Express" sights on my little Kahr PM40 but standard sights on my similarly sized K-40 Covert (slightly longer barrel, sights are very SIG-like). In speed drills there really hasn't been a difference. Theoretically the big "Express" sights come on target quicker, but at 7 yards or so in, you really should be "body-indexing" anyway if it's a draw-and-fire-right-now-get-some-hits-on-target-hurry-up-before-you-die sort of moment. Weapon comes out and either lock elbow into lower ribs, forearm and wrist straight (VERY Close Quarter) or if extended somewhat, bring it to center line, stay squared-up to (both shoulders facing) the target and you can get very accurate hits that way with a little bit of time and practice. As you are firing from either of the first positions, though, you should, ASAP and as said far better by others here already, bring the sights up to your eye level and just get that front sight, be it fine blade, blocky "combat" sight, or great-big-honking dot on the approximate upper center of a silhouette. Laser training aids help a lot as well. 

You seem to be driven to learn and have the right non-confrontational mind-set. I think you will do well. Don't worry about losing fine motor skills. Once any critical stress occurs they go away immediately. But the good news is, you shouldn't need them for combat. 115-145 beats per minute is optimal for combat as while that is detrimental for fine motor skills, that is optimal for complex and gross motor skills. As a runner, you no doubt understand breathing to control your heart rate after stopping or during cardio breaks (DEEEEP breaths, pause, slow exhale). That will also help mitigate "panic." With your stated determination, I see you doing quite well.


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## jeager106 (Sep 27, 2014)

CeltKnight: Well said my friend & fellow retired copper. I've been out of law enforcement since being disabled in '94.
I don't teach anymore but am fortunate to live in the country with a back yard range and nieghbors that also shoot
so no one complains about the noise. I still shoot often to keep up my skills and enjoy shooting as much now as I did 
when still an officer. Sounds to me like the original poster got some great advice here.


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## CeltKnight (Oct 5, 2014)

Thank you, Jeager106! Hate to hear another LEO brother out on disability (one of our sgts went out on disability about 3 years before I retired). With the demands of the job, in particular the weird and massive demands of working in that town (great place but ... a dept set for 10,000 permanent population that was actually quit a bit larger, but with crowds of 100,000 to 200,000+ on holidays, weekends, and during events and the attitude that "yeah, you and your crew worked 12 hours and have to be back in 11.5, but give me your crew to stay over for a detail ..." and "off days? Those are just more days you can work here for overtime!" I was beginning to get enough health issues I think folks were beginning to bet on whether I'd wind up having to leave on a medical. But my chance came to go at 25, I did, ending watch last Thanksgiving Night (why change a habit of working holidays? LOL), and honestly 11 months later, I don't think I've ever been healthier. The job will kill ya if you let it ... assuming bad guys, incompetent eejits, and being the honor-driven gallant one doesn't do it first, LOL!!! Glad you can still get trigger time! The Little Lady and I plan to get some property on the "way-out-yonder" when she gets nearer to retirement (and our 5 young adult children hopefully start costing us a little less, heh-heh). 

Trying to light a fire under me own derierre to become an NRA civilian instructor before my NRA LEO pistol/shotgun instructor creds run out. Wanna see about extending those too, but ... $$$, y'know? I like to teach (I teach and help teach several Japanese martial arts plus Women's Self Defense and some hand-to-hand tactical stuff now ... want to add firearms because I apparently do not understand the concept of "down time!"  ). Anyway, Well Met, my friend!

Now, then, returning this thread to it's regularly scheduled discussion (sorry!) -- I have to say, on most of the other forums which I peruse, the advice is not usually as helpful or as valuable (or courteous) as that I've seen here. Just a noob here, but I like this forum!


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Lucky us........ Thanks to movies and TV show we do not need sights to shoot someone in self defense.....


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## KeithC. (Dec 24, 2013)

Welcome to the forum CeltKnight and thank you for your gentle encouragement. Much appreciated.

Regards

Keith


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

In my post, #18, I mentioned that I had ordered a set of Ameriglo sights for one of my Glock 23's. This is a gen4 version and is less than two weeks old. It came with the standard Glock plastic sights, which of course do need to be replaced. I decided to mix my Ameriglo sights and ordered their GL-229-OP-R rear sight and their GL-112 for the front sight. As mentioned, these are .180 and .140 respectively. The front sight is what's used in their "Pro" series and the rear sight is from their "Pro Operator" series. The lamp color combination I got was green for the front and yellow for the rear.

I received them two days ago and installed them that same day. Then yesterday I tried them out at the range. I must say that these are the best after market sights I have used to date. The perfect amount of light to the sides of the front post and visible in the rear notch for sight acquisition and picture plus alignment. And the first time out for this gun as well. I had already performed my usual trigger mods to this gun which actually had the best out of the box trigger of any gen4 I have bought, coming in at 5 pounds 9 to 11 ounces. It is now at 4 pounds 11 to 12 ounces. This gun is a shooter and will now take its place as my primary carry gun.

I highly recommend this sight combination for the compact Glock, specifically the G19 and G23. And they are low profile and snag free to boot.

https://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/night-sights/rear-sights
https://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/night-sights/front-sights


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

You're welcome. :smt1099


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

VAMarine said:


> You're welcome. :smt1099


Once again, I do appreciate your post and turning me onto these sights. I had never considered anything from this company in the past and do not have an answer as to why. The combination I bought are definitely excellent sights for my gen4 Glock 23.

Thanks again.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I think I'm gonna blush.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I like the TruGlo TFO Tritium & Fiber Optic Gun Sight.

Easy to see day or niight.

:smt1099


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