# 9mm Ammo



## mmasteve

what is the best grain 9mm ammo for defense. i have noticed that 124 and 147 are the most common grain. which is best and why?


----------



## TOF

I like 124 grain. No particular reason other than I am a speed freak and 147's are slow. :mrgreen:

They both make holes in paper and I use my 40 for PD.

:smt1099


----------



## DJ Niner

I usually lean toward the 115s, but I've slowly been convinced that a little bit more penetration might be a good thing in some cases. So I went with 124, above.

I have no use for the 147s.


----------



## JeffWard

Agreed w/ DJ. A good mix of speed (energy) and weight (momentum).

Availibble everywhere too.

In a subcompact gun, lighter is better.

Jeff


----------



## Mike Barham

I, too, prefer the 124s with a good modern premium bullet (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, whatever). Still, I'd have no particular qualms about using modern 147s if that's what's available. Either will work fine with proper shot placement.

I'm less picky about ammo than a lot of guys, though.


----------



## MAN WITH A GUN

*Either Will Work*

Looking at the street results, either is just fine for social work.

115gr has been the darling for a long time however, glass, doors, walls etc take the steam out quickly as would heavy clothing.

124 and 147 (NOT sub-sonic) loads running over 1,000 fps with good bullets will do every time.

Law enforcement MAY take another look at the 9mm since things have vastly improved.

All that heavy breathing about .40 and .45's lends itself to one thought, do you really want to catch a 9mm anywhere on your pink little self?

A Gold Dot will expand to about 50 -60 cal even if bone is not hit. OUCH!


----------



## bruce333

JeffWard said:


> Agreed w/ DJ. A good mix of speed (energy) and weight (momentum).
> 
> Availibble everywhere too.


I agree with 124 gr.

But have to disagree with available _everywhere_. The 2 Wal-Marts near me only have 115 gr.


----------



## drummin man 627

I tend to gravitate towards the 124s as a PD round. At the moment, I have 125gr Cor-Bons in the magazine.
When at the range, I shoot 50 115s (Wal-Mart), then switch to a 1/2 mag of my PD round.
Then I do a similar drill with my revolver, 50 rounds .38 special (round dujor), then one cylinder of my PD load in .357, again Cor-Bons.(110 jhp)


----------



## stormbringerr

115 or 124 grain, i don't care what you have heard about 9mm ammo. don't ever use anything over 125gr in a 9mm handgun for defense


----------



## cupsz71

I personally have no preference and admit I've shot very few rounds of 124gr. I've heard from range members of my that 147gr. is too heavy But as mentioned by bruce333, the same is true here that the Walmart only carries 115 gr. And I buy it cause it's cheap!:smt023


----------



## Liko81

My PD rounds are Federal Hydra-Shock 124gr hollow-points. There's a cone in the center of the point that increases expansion: first, more damage dealt to Sparky the BG; second, less chance of killing the neighbors with an exiting or missed shot.


----------



## thug23

New guy here and green in every way to this CCW and Ammo stuff...with that said, after reading some posts on 9mm ammo, why wouldn't I want a heavier load ? I'm not a "target shooter", I carry for "protection only" and want my ammo to STOP the bad guy....so why do I want to use a smaller grain? By the way, I have one box of ammo a friend gave me, SPEER LAWMAN 9mm Luger 115 gr. TMJ ......is this stuff worth carrying or should I use it for target practice?
Thanks for the info guys I appreciate it.


----------



## Mike Barham

thug23 said:


> New guy here and green in every way to this CCW and Ammo stuff...with that said, after reading some posts on 9mm ammo, why wouldn't I want a heavier load ? I'm not a "target shooter", I carry for "protection only" and want my ammo to STOP the bad guy....


There are various theories on what causes a bad guy to stop. Some theories hold that a lighter bullet propelled at higher speed will do a better job. Other theories hold that a heavier bullet going slower will work better.

Personally, I think the answer lies in looking at the tissue damage a particular bullet causes. Pistol bullets, unlike rifle bullets, can generally only destroy tissue they physically touch. Thus, if we examine the depth of penetration and the expanded diameter of a bullet (which will tell us how much tissue the bullet physically contacted), we have a pretty good basis for comparing loads.



> so why do I want to use a smaller grain?


If a lighter bullet penetrates to the same depth and expands to the same diameter as a heavier bullet, it should be equally effective. But the light bullet will often recoil less, thus aiding with speed of follow-up shots. This could be one reason for choosing a lighter bullet over a heavier one.

Good ammo info can be found here: www.firearmstactical.com.

Of course, I think people generally make way too big a deal about choosing guns and ammo. As long as your gun/ammo combination is reliable and you choose any premium hollowpoint load from a reputable manufacturer, you should stop wasting mental energy and move on to more important things. Mindset, marksmanship ability, gunhandling skill, and tactics are all far more important than the particular gun and load you choose.


----------



## thug23

Thanks for the info :smt023. I checked out the site you provided...little out of date though?


----------



## Mike Barham

thug23 said:


> Thanks for the info :smt023. I checked out the site you provided...little out of date though?


Not really. The vast majority of the rounds tested there are still in use and very popular. Change is glacial in the gun industry.


----------



## Grip

i use:
winchester white box 115gr fmj's for target
Federal hydra shok 124gr jhp's for home defense


im looking to try out some new JHP home defense round's:

Speer Gold Dot 124gr
Hornady TAP 124gr
Federal HST 124gr

i dont see the need for 147gr


----------



## mc2

How do you all feel about Corbon 90gr JHP rounds?


----------



## Mike Barham

mc2 said:


> How do you all feel about Corbon 90gr JHP rounds?


I haven't seen any tests, but based on the bullet weight and the velocity, I suspect they would be woefully short on penetration.


----------



## fivehourfrenzy

From chuckhawks.com:



> This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the 9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only.
> 
> 9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law enforcement usage.
> 
> I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).
> 
> Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table).
> 
> The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), and Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1).
> 
> For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1).
> 
> Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.
> 
> Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:
> 
> Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
> Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
> Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
> Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
> Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
> Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
> Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
> Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
> CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)


----------



## Mike Barham

Chuck Hawks seldom gives sound advice. His bashing of the 9mm/147 is a case in point. The guy knows some about some kinds of rifles, mainly hunting, but taking him as an authority on fighting pistols is a *big* mistake.

I am surprised *submoa* hasn't come along to correct this, like he corrected me. And he was right. :mrgreen:


----------



## dallaswood43

yeah i definitely take anyone seriously who uses words like stupid, suckered, and sucks in his supposedly analytical writing.


----------



## JohnnyFlake

*124g Gold Sabers & Gold Dots. They work for me!*


----------



## fivehourfrenzy

JohnnyFlake said:


> *124g Gold Sabers & Gold Dots. They work for me!*


So you've shot someone in self-defense with both? Please share. :mrgreen:


----------



## Mike Barham

Nothing wrong with the 124s GD/GS loads. They work for a lot of people - they cycle guns reliably, and the shooters can shoot them fast and well.

And I'll just point out, *fhf*, that *JohnnyFlake* trumps you in experience by just a wee bit: http://www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=11756.


----------



## JohnnyFlake

fivehourfrenzy said:


> So you've shot someone in self-defense with both? Please share. :mrgreen:


Thankfully, NO!!!

I have never had to shoot anyone yet, however, it did come close a few times, but those are stories for another time. Although, there is no need for me to respond to such an irresponsible comment, I'll just say that over the years, I have found the 124g 9mm round functions extremely well in almost any brand of 9mm weapon. They have just enough bang to properly operate all handgun recoil and ejection systems. That is not true of the lighter 9mm rounds. The 147g rounds certainly have enough bang to operate all handgun recoil and ejection systems, and sometimes too much bang, especially for many compact and sub-compact weapons. IMHO and experience, too many rounds of 147g ammo can and will begin to wear and/or simply damage many compact and sub-compact weapons.

As far as my choice of GS and GD rounds, those are simply my choice. I've been using them ever since I can remember. What else can I say?

Johnny


----------



## fivehourfrenzy

Sorry...that comment was a bit off color. I keep my XD loaded with 124gr +P SB Gold Dots...I can't imagine that wouldn't be sufficient, nor would any other top notch SD be. The heaviest .40 bullets (180gr) kicked too hard for me. I would imagine the same would occur with a 147gr in 9mm, especially on an even smaller setup.


----------



## JohnnyFlake

fivehourfrenzy said:


> Sorry...that comment was a bit off color. I keep my XD loaded with 124gr +P SB Gold Dots...I can't imagine that wouldn't be sufficient, nor would any other top notch SD be. The heaviest .40 bullets (180gr) kicked too hard for me. I would imagine the same would occur with a 147gr in 9mm, especially on an even smaller setup.


No problem Bro!

I would be very comfortable with 124gr +P SB Gold Dots in a XD9!


----------



## submoa

Mike Barham said:


> I am surprised *submoa* hasn't come along to correct this, like he corrected me. And he was right. :mrgreen:


Sorry buddy, got lazy.

There is waay too much interest in equipment selection over training and practice. Even thermonuclear bombing is useless if you can't properly operate your equipment or accurately and reliably hit your target.

For the record, at self defense distances, clothed gelatin simulations have shown that, in general, for different bullet weights of the same ammo, at standard SAMMI pressures, *147gr 9mm JHP subsonic rounds have greater penetration and less recoil than 124gr JHP*.


----------



## 4X4SNEAK

I have to jump in on this one. Much is made of the 9MM and the selections of ammo. I personally carry 124+P Gold Dots in my 226 and I am very comfortable with that load.

I have never shot anyone, and hope I don't have too. I have taken up the slack in my Glock(s) trigger and prayed for the best. 

For many years my load selection was 115 Grain Cor-bon +p+ and then Federal 115 +p+. These loads were fired in either a G17 or a 228. The city I worked, at that time, had a huge wild dog problem. It was not uncommon to destroy a several dogs a week. I was never impressed with the 115's killing power. I had shot coyotes with my 357 and it was always a devestating kill. 

At the persuasion of the FBI, I switched to the Federal 147 HS. The FBI, in the late 90's, thought this was the best load. They have the resources and people to study these loads and their performance. The 147 worked well in my pistols, but I admit that I haven't used it much since I have moved from the 9 as a duty pistol. 

Back to the 124+p Gold Dots in my Sig 226. These were given to my by friends of mine in the FBI and it is their current duty round. I think that the 124 is a good compromise.


----------



## submoa

4X4SNEAK said:


> Back to the 124+p Gold Dots in my Sig 226. These were given to my by friends of mine in the FBI and it is their current duty round.


The following press release says otherwise:

http://www.winchester.com/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=229

2/7/2008 
Winchester® Ammunition is proud to announce that it recently was awarded a second contract to service the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). In addition to its contract with the FBI to supply 40 Smith & Wesson loads, Winchester Ammunition will also supply 9mm Luger ammunition.

The new 9mm Luger contract is worth a maximum of $54 million, and the two contracts combined will be worth a maximum of $108 million over five years - the largest ammunition contracts in the history of federal law enforcement.

Winchester Ammunition will produce 9mm bonded service ammunition, training ammunition, reduced lead training ammunition and frangible ammunition for the FBI for one base year, with four, one-year renewal options.

"With the latest advancement in our ammunition lines, the 9mm bonded design combines all the best-known technology features into one bullet to deliver the superior performance required by the FBI," said Dick Hammett, president, Winchester Ammunition. "It's sure to be a success with our nation's law enforcement."

*Winchester's 9mm service ammunition utilizes a 147-grain, bonded hollow point bullet and was selected over all other rounds tested*. The FBI evaluates the terminal ballistics of each round by shooting a specific test protocol through various barriers such as heavy cloth, wallboard, plywood, steel and auto glass into ballistic gelatin.

In addition to the FBI, the contract impacts many agencies both inside and outside the Department of Justice, including the Drug Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and U.S. Marshal Service.

"On behalf of Winchester, we are extremely proud that our nation's premier law enforcement agency has elected to use Winchester Ammunition in its mission of protecting and defending the United States," said Hammett.


----------



## 4X4SNEAK

You maybe right as my information is several months old and yours is pretty new. The ammo and info I have came from an FBI agent and not a internet press release. Thanks.


----------



## Wyatt

Does anyone know exactly which 9MM Winchester round the FBI is using?


----------



## 4X4SNEAK

I spoke with a local FBI agent and firearms instructor. Here is what they are currently using: 

9MM-147 Grain Hydrashock, being replaced by Winchester 147 Grain Ranger 

40SW-165 Grain Speer Gold Dot, being replaced by Winchester 165 Grain Ranger 

45ACP-230 Grain Remington Golden Saber. Not being replaced. 

223REM-62 Grain Federal Tactical. Because of Federals military contract they will be using Winchester, specifics unknown.

He has not seen any of the new Winchester ammo and doesn't expect it to hit the field for several months.

I didn't ask about the 10MM or the 38 Spec. as I don't think many of those are in circulation.


----------



## DCFresh

Grip said:


> i use:
> winchester white box 115gr fmj's for target
> Federal hydra shok 124gr jhp's for home defense
> 
> i dont see the need for 147gr


exactly what i use!:smt023


----------



## babs

So I grabbed a couple boxes from the local wally-world of some Remington and Winchester JHP... From memory (as it's sitting in the closet at home) I think the Winchester is 147g JHP and the Remington is 115g JHP.

I figured I'd give the lower and higher ends of the 9mm powder choices a try in the 226 to get the feel for the difference. Unfortunately the "happy medium" 124g wasn't even available.. Possibly a popular "happy medium".

Having read through this thread the newbie is once more completely and utterly confused. :smt082 Yay! .... So I'm guessing I'll typically keep what I know runs through the guns no hickup, with caution not to run 147 all the time, just once in a while.. Infact I doubt I'll go with any more 147 once I choose a good 124 (I guess) with decent 9mm power but still I guess a decent powder for range rounds as well. ?? Shoot, I dunno even what that Atlantic Arms range ammo at my gun range is running.. All I know is it's been fairly decent ammo in FMJ's and the Sig loves it. 

I do get the concept of "shoot what you intend to bet the farm on if you need it" though.


----------



## BeefyBeefo

As far as I know, and based on what I believe....you can shoot as much 147gr 9mm ammo as you want without any problems from it. It's when you get into the +p ammo that you MIGHT have to worry about it (depending on the gun)....

-Jeff-


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Most my 9mm's have liked the 147. I mostly use them for range fun so I try to load what each pistol likes best. My Springer likes a 124 but the Sig likes the bugger slug, My Glocks and XD's (all gone now) likes the bigger slug and loaded hot!

It's a lot of fun looking for that magic load a gun will like best. Though it can get expensive picking up several different powders, slugs etc but when you find the magic round it's great!


----------



## blue d

Both my Kel-Tec and Walther P-38 seem to shoot the heavier rounds more accurately. However, it may be the shooter.


----------



## falchunt

My friends, family, and I have always used wal mart 115 gr for plinking and target shooting. Most of us keep a mag or two loaded with 124 gr JHP for home defense/ccw.
:numbchuck:


----------



## WinM70

I personally use CorBin 115g +P for my 9mm PD round, I would follow that with 124's but never a 147.


----------



## sigophile

Federal 9BPLE 115gr. + P +


----------



## Steve S

124 in all of my guns.


----------



## wdg710

*9mm SD Ammo*

Cor-Bon 115gr. +P JHP


----------



## jeffegg2

I was told to use in SD what you shoot at the range.

I shoot the federal 115 fmj at the range.

Hornady Critical Defense 115 for SD. They sell out quick around here!!


----------



## CadeXDM9

*Ammo*

I use Winchester Rangers 147 grain. when I shoot my range ammo federal 124 grain I can't tell in recoil difference. Maybe I'm just that good j/k


----------



## Desertrat

I recently switched to Ranger 147gr....impressed with reports I have read from different agencies. I also still keep 124gr. Gold Dots on hand.


----------



## Packard

For the longest time it was written that hollow points would not expand at speeds less than 1,000 fps. I read more recently that the number had been reduced to 950 on some of the newer designs.

In any case I would be more interested in the fps than the weight of the bullet. I would want the heaviest bullet that would travel at 1,000 fps from my gun's barrel (advertised fps are usually from sealed barrels of 4" to 6").


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

Packard said:


> For the longest time it was written that hollow points would not expand at speeds less than 1,000 fps. I read more recently that the number had been reduced to 950 on some of the newer designs.
> 
> In any case I would be more interested in the fps than the weight of the bullet. I would want the heaviest bullet that would travel at 1,000 fps from my gun's barrel (advertised fps are usually from sealed barrels of 4" to 6").


i really dont care if my hollow points fully expand or not, when i shoot a BG in the forehead, he is not going to notice a difference


----------



## ubaldorobles

I will always tell people that shot placement is key to a bullets terminal performance. with that in mind, any 9 ammo will serve the purpose of self defense. I have kept bullet weights of from 115 to 147 in my pistols...:smt1099


----------



## Packard

The most commonly accepted tactic I've come across in my reading has the first two shot to the largest vital area with the third shot to the head.

So if you have three assailants you go tap-tap to the center of mass to each of the three and then go back and go tap to the head of each one that is still standing.

The thinking on this is that the center of mass (sternum) offers the largest target that can be quickly acquired and even if you miss the 10 ring, you will likely do damage. Whereas in a high stress situation a first shot to the head is harder to make than a first shot to the sternum.

Heavy clothing or a bullet proof vest make the re-visit to the head a wise choice.

I have yet to read any expert suggesting that the first shot be made to the head. The main advantages of the 9mm are the large round count available and the light recoil. It allows you to engage multiple assailants with the tap-tap plus tap as described above.


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

Packard said:


> The most commonly accepted tactic I've come across in my reading has the first two shot to the largest vital area with the third shot to the head.
> 
> So if you have three assailants you go tap-tap to the center of mass to each of the three and then go back and go tap to the head of each one that is still standing.
> 
> The thinking on this is that the center of mass (sternum) offers the largest target that can be quickly acquired and even if you miss the 10 ring, you will likely do damage. Whereas in a high stress situation a first shot to the head is harder to make than a first shot to the sternum.
> 
> Heavy clothing or a bullet proof vest make the re-visit to the head a wise choice.
> 
> I have yet to read any expert suggesting that the first shot be made to the head. The main advantages of the 9mm are the large round count available and the light recoil. It allows you to engage multiple assailants with the tap-tap plus tap as described above.


3 assailants, 3 shots to the forehead makes all the other shots redundant and wasteful


----------



## Packard

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> 3 assailants, 3 shots to the forehead makes all the other shots redundant and wasteful


Under stress the center of mass shot is considered a high percentage shot; the head shot, a low percentage shot.

At paper targets I can hit the head at 25 yard, but bad guys are not paper targets and some of them shoot back. So although I am confident on my marksmanship, is will go with the conventional thinking.

Also I worry about the legal ramifications of the "three bad guys, three shots to the head."

No doubt some namby pamby DA will say, "If you could shoot that accurately there was no reason to kill all three. A shot to the shoulder of the shooting hand is no more difficult to make than a shot to the head. Manslaughter."

So, if you do take down 3 bad guys with 3 shots to the head, it would be worthwhile to spray another 6 or more rounds in the same general direction to preclude that scenario. ("I shot 10 rounds, I got lucky with 3. I ain't no assassin.")


----------



## PAWPAUL

If the F.B.I thinks the 147 grain RANGER is the ticket ...who am I to doubt them .

I bought a whole crapload of them , and then read that feller saying they were the worst load you could use in a 9 m.m .........

one things for sure - their either the very Best , or the very Worst


----------



## MichiganBob

Interesting read new hand gun owner here. And starting the process to get my CPL, I've been to the range all fall and winter using Remington 115gr. FMJ rounds. And trying to figure out the best defense round, was leaning towards Hornady Critical Defense 115gr. I take it from this post not a good choice. I quess I'll have to look at a 124gr. choice.


----------



## Packard

MichiganBob said:


> Interesting read new hand gun owner here. And starting the process to get my CPL, I've been to the range all fall and winter using Remington 115gr. FMJ rounds. And trying to figure out the best defense round, was leaning towards Hornady Critical Defense 115gr. I take it from this post not a good choice. I quess I'll have to look at a 124gr. choice.


This is not a simple question to answer.

To expand reliably a round has to travel in excess of a minimum threshold speed. Usually this is about 950 to 1,000 fps.

A light bullet can be driven to higher speeds so it can be counted on expanding. Also it is lighty constructed (an aid to expansion).

But the flip side of a light bullet is that it does not penetrate as well as a heavy one.

The Critical Defense ammo is designed not to over-expand, and not to pass through certain barriers (sheetrock, for example).

The police, on the otherhand want bullets that pass through barriers such as sheetrock, windshields, etc.

All bullet designs are a compromise. Too much expansion too soon and a bullet may not penetrate deeply enough to stop a man. Too little and it can poke a neat little hole in a body with far too little disruption.

Some bullets rely on the size and weight of the bullet for stopping the bad guy. The classic is the .45 in 230 grain. Many loads travel at speeds that will not reliably cause expansion, but the size and weight of the bullet guarantee a significant amount of damage.

The 9mm does not have that size and weight and you need to choose very carefully to get a round that is adequate.


----------



## Blade

I normally prefer a heavier bullet, given a choice. But it depends on the gun too. Very short barreled guns, like my Kahr CM9, when loaded with heavier bullets have a rather dramatic drop in muzzle velocity. Just not enough barrel to get that heavy bullet up to speed. In smaller guns like that, I go with a standard 115gr.


----------



## SouthernBoy

Mike Barham said:


> Chuck Hawks seldom gives sound advice. His bashing of the 9mm/147 is a case in point. The guy knows some about some kinds of rifles, mainly hunting, but taking him as an authority on fighting pistols is a *big* mistake.
> 
> I am surprised *submoa* hasn't come along to correct this, like he corrected me. And he was right. :mrgreen:


He's wrong about a few things and one is this;

*9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." *

The 9mm comes is a number of "pressure levels". Standard, NATO, +P, and +P+. There are a host of high quality 9mm loads on the market which have proven track records.

Federal 124gr HST in standard and +P.
Federal 147gr HST in standard and +P.
Gold Dot 124gr in standard and +P
Winchester Ranger 127gr JHP +P+.

There are more but these loads are among the best of the lot with the Gold Dot and HST loads sitting pretty much on top of the heap.


----------



## jdw68

I have done some research on this topic because I wondered the same thing a few years back. I have come to believe that there really isn't a clear winner on the best 9mm defensive cartridge. There are just to many variables to consider when trying to determine how a projectile will behave from your barrel, or how a cartridge will function in your gun. For example, I've come to prefer a 124 grain golden saber for my Ruger LC9 but a speer gold dot 124 grain +P for my glock 26. I prefer federal HST or gold dot standard pressure 124 grain for my Beretta 92 fs. I do opt for the 124 grain over the 147 grain, but that's just because I prefer less penetration in 9mm since the 9mm tends to over penetrate anyway. Of course, that's just my opinion and I do believe the 147 grainers make great defensive rounds and are often preferred by law enforcement. My needs tend to be a lil different than law enforcement. 

When you check some differenct loadings for your gun I would recommend Corbon DPX, Federal HST, Remington Golden Saber, and Speer Gold Dot. I also believe that whatever ammo you use the placement of the shot is more important that the design or caliber of the bullet.


----------



## truggles

Can anyone help me out by explaining the difference between 9mm Luger and 9mm Luger +P? I see it on websites trying to sell ammo but never a description of what it is or means.
I get that it is a pressure difference but what difference is that going to make when I am shooting the gun?


----------



## DJ Niner

You'll feel a bit more recoil, the bullet will probably move a bit faster than the exact same bullet loaded to non-plus-P pressures (actual velocities will vary, but I've seen increases of 50 to 150 feet-per-second in 9mm), and the gun will have to absorb more force when it is fired. Most folks agree that extensive use of +P rated ammunition will decrease the overall service life of a handgun, but no one knows how much it will be decreased. Most (but not all) modern firearms are thought to be safe to use with small to moderate amounts of +P ammo, but a steady diet of high-pressure ammo may cause or accelerate problems like peening, cracked/broken parts, or premature wear on certain surfaces. Check your owner's manual for info on whether your weapon can be safely used with +P ammo.

Here are some links to pages with more info on the subject:

Overpressure ammunition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Demystifying +P


----------



## BigCityChief

mmasteve said:


> what is the best grain 9mm ammo for defense. i have noticed that 124 and 147 are the most common grain. which is best and why?


I use both. I load my S&W 5946 and 3953TSW with 124 gr Gold Dot +P JHP; for my Ruger LC9, a smaller frame pistol, I use 147 gr. FMJ.


----------



## Lonestar3

The 9mm gets constant criticism for not being A good stopping round in gun forums but I figure a round that has been around over 100 years has passed the test. It has been used and "field tested" by thousands of shooters over time and found to be effective. If this was not the case it would have been abandoned years ago. I carry a .45 cal load but sometimes wonder if all the discussion over big cals, which JHP etc., is best is just hype started by bullet mfgs to get us to buy more expensive loads. I have never shot anyone but I notice the 9mm is referenced a lot in cop reports on murders. The people shot by the 9mm seem to be satisfactorily dead.


----------



## neorebel

I agree with Mike and his choice.



Mike Barham said:


> I, too, prefer the 124s with a good modern premium bullet (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, whatever). Still, I'd have no particular qualms about using modern 147s if that's what's available. Either will work fine with proper shot placement.
> 
> I'm less picky about ammo than a lot of guys, though.


----------



## shaolin

I use the 127 Winchester Ranger +p+ and 124gr +p Golddot. The golddot has great result according to the NYPD and the Ranger is consider the best out there. The Illinois state police uses them with good results. Utube the Rangers and you will see they are Black Talons on Steroids.


----------



## Cait43

And the winner is.......
*115 grain
124 grain and
147 grain hollow point*

Comes down to whatever suits the individual weapon owner.......


----------



## GCBHM

I use the Hornady Critical Duty, which is a 135 grain "flexlock" bullet. It has very good reviews, and it really doesn't matter if you use +P or standard loads. The 124 seems to be more popular, from what I've read and gained from LEOs that use it, b/c it is fast and generates more energy when it hits the target. That said, a lot depends on the length of the barrel, but for the avg shooter, shoot what you're most comfortable with. Any round is going to be lethal if it hits vital areas.


----------

