# S&W "logo" on antique Russian? Help!!!



## BlueBook (Nov 12, 2014)

Greetings everyone from Italy,

Just joined here after so many lookings in this Forum and learned much of many things - as owner of a small collection of American west-related firearms I got Winchester leverguns, Colt revolvers and "Lightning" rifles, and a couple Merwin Hulbert & Co. handguns among the other - not to forget some early Allin alterations of Springfield military guns (1866 - 1870).
Still missing any S&W revolvers from that era , and just some days ago I was offered a 3rd Model (New Model) Russian, commercial specimen in .44 Russian.

Still any pics to be seen, but strangely enough owner looks to be unwilling to send any to me - he prefers me being there and directly talk to him. However, not so enthusiast about doing 175 miles round trip just to see the gun, would be so much useful watching some photos at least.
A great Thank You if anyone could explain to me the following: were there any Russian model having the classic S&W brand (the crossede SW letters inside the circle, and "trade mark" outside) engraved on right-side frame? Sounds strange to me that Russian proposed to me does show it - I just saw here and there some #3 New Model (not Russian) having it, and not even many.

But, strange as well could also be, a possible post-'800 addition by any faker? Not even the s/n, in order to know more or less its mfg. year. Still awaiting for some pics.
Please are any of you able to tell me whether a possible bad thing, or a good one?

Thanks so much!! Franco.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

The Smith & Wesson Russian Model revolver was made by three different factories: Smith & Wesson in the United States, Ludwig Loewe in Germany, and Tula Arsenal in Russia.
The pistols made by Smith & Wesson in the US would normally carry the S&W "brand" (trade mark, actually) on its side, and all three makers marked these pistols in Russian with Cyrillic letters.
The S&W Russian Model pistols made for commercial sale to civilians were made only by S&W, and were marked in English.

My reference material does not include the range of serial numbers.


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## BlueBook (Nov 12, 2014)

Thanks very much Steve,

so it could be "good"? I so ask 'cause I searched many photos of both Second and Third Model Russian, and not even one does show the trademark on the right side frame if we talk of true "Russian" models. 
Just a few pics, as written before, of #3 "New Model" wich sport this logo engraved above the grip, but the New Model #3 went to replace the Russian family since late 1878. I also thought, the very last specimens of 3rd Model Russian could have overlapped the early "New Models" in getting the trademarks? But for now I still miss the s/n of "my" particular Russian, so do not know whether it's really a late piece.

hope to get some pics soon. Thanks, Franco.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Photos of Russian-made and German-made military versions would not show the S&W trade-mark (logo). Those guns were not made by S&W.
I would expect that a Smith-&-Wesson-made, commercial model, manufactured for sale to civilians, would have the S&W trade-mark.

However, I am _not_ an expert in these matters.
I merely have a really good reference library, which I know how to use.


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## BlueBook (Nov 12, 2014)

will insist for getting some pics, too weird they seem unwilling in sending any to me. Nor am I willing to drive some 175 miles just to see if a Russian revolver could look OK, or not..


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Drive 175 miles? Three hours? If the pistol is in pretty good condition, and is to be sold for something like 3,000 Euros (or more), I would drive that far.
Where is it? In France? Switzerland? Lichtenstein?

If it's the real thing, its current value is supposed to be at least US$5,000.00.
(But if it's in .44 rimfire—.44 Henry—it's worth much less.)

I wish that I could write Italian as well as you do English. Hell, I'd be happy to write French that well, or German, after three years of them in school.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Also, from the little research I've done S&W made over 131,000 S&W Model 3 revolvers under contract for the Russian Army, some even for contract with Japan.

In addition to the U.S. S&W made revolvers, Belgian, Spanish and German made copies were also produced.

As a note it is well advised that one acquire a professional appraisal as the nuances between models, manufacturers, copies, etc..... all come into play and the value ranges greatly.

If you go to the link below it will give you information you may find useful. Also, the owner not willing to send you pics and information is a little disconcerting to me.

http://books.google.com/books?id=64...ASEsYCAAQ&ved=0CGQQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q&f=false
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## BlueBook (Nov 12, 2014)

Thanks Denner! A useful guide that one, the 3rd Model Russian alone was produced in 37% of what were produced all the 1st Generation Colt SAA... a very good piece could very well worth the amounts Steve1911 wrote of.

Too kind Steve... what I do in writing and reading English effortlessly, the same isn't true if it comes in speaking - each evening I devote two hours on the web in seeing English-subtitled movies (even already watched 100 times) in order to carefully catch every nuance and variation, plus speaking to the only person who do it in English... 
Several difficulties in staying together during a normally "fast"-pacing conversation.. boh

That Russian, yes there are more than just one uncertainty - price would be around just 700 Euros, so I wonder why? (700 is much less than a Uberti-made replica does sell when new).
will see... no doubt something puzzling to me.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

At a mere 700 Euros, I would suspect that it is either in rather bad condition, or it is a rimfire (.44 Henry) version, or it is a fake (check the cylinder length), or a little of all three.
There was a Turkish model, a Greek model, and a Japanese model of the S&W 3rd-Model Russian revolver, all of which are worth less than a real S&W-made gun (about half the price, I believe).


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