# which .45 as a first?



## USsoldier1124 (Dec 1, 2007)

i posted a thread a few days ago looking for answers between two specific 45's and got some very helpful responses. however, i think i asked the wrong question. having only fired and never owned a .45, which would one suggest as a good first. i have heard good things about H&K and have tried the XD, but i would like some insight from the more experienced and knowledgable. broaden my horizens before i commit to one. what do you think?


----------



## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*impressions*

USsoldier1124: Sir; my shooting buddy has the XD45; experiences are great.
I routinely shoot it; good acquisition, good balance, shootable; The only thing wrong:smt083 I shoot Glocks. Don't have one in .45:mrgreen:
I doubt you'd go wrong.:smt023


----------



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Being in Iraq, hard to do... but when you get home, find a range that rents. I shot the HK45, the M&P45, the Sig 220 the Glock 21, and the XD45. I put 20-40 rounds through each. You may have a different experience, but myself, and many guys here have found the same thing...

My tightest group came from the XD. I shot a sub-2-inch offhand group at 7M the first time I picked it up.

The ergonomics were best with the XD. The grip size was manageable, the controls "normally placed", and useable, and the two passive safeties, excellent.

The trigger was best on the XD. For a striker fired gun, it feels more like a SA (after the uptake). The Glock was excellent also, but the G21 grip was like a 2X4, and I have huge hands...

Then I looked at the price. It was a smidge more expensive than the M&P, but cheaper than the rest. I, personally, hated the M&P trigger, and I haven't liked a single M&P trigger I've tried. It was quite a bit cheaper than the Glock, and the HK was a LOT more. The Sig was exactly TWICE as much money.

I own a Sig P226. I love the P226. The Sig P226 is the second most accurate gun I own. Second to my XD45...

You'll love any of them... but if you can, shoot them all. It's been said a dozen times here... $50 in gun-rentals will save you hundreds in satisfaction with your purchase. 


But then again... don't listen to me, I've bought and traded 4 guns in the last 12 months... lol


----------



## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

USsoldier1124 said:


> which would one suggest as a good first.


It would not be possible to suggest a "good first". The reason is because there are too many variables. Do you want striker-fired or hammer? Single-action, double-action, or safe-action? Big grip or small? Poly or metal? Do you want something from a country respected for it's firearm production, or something made in Croatia?*

As Jeff so wisely mentioned, rent as many as you can. Decide what type of action you want, buy something from a major manufacturer, and don't look back. Besides, the odds of you are anyone else getting the perfect pistol on the first try is very small, but then again that's part of the fun in owning handguns and you will sooner or later own several, if not many.

Yes, it is a sickness for some of us.....

PhilR.
*Not to be taken seriously - just a jab a Jeff to see if he's paying attention...:mrgreen:


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffWard said:


> The ergonomics were best with the XD. The grip size was manageable, the controls "normally placed", and useable, and the two passive safeties, excellent.
> 
> The trigger was best on the XD. For a striker fired gun, it feels more like a SA (after the uptake).


I hate to break this to you, Jeff, but the XD _is_ a single action pistol. 



> The Glock was excellent also, but the G21 grip was like a 2X4, and I have huge hands...


This is apparently remedied in the 21SF, but I have been in Afghanistan so long that I haven't seen or held one. I agree that the standard 21 is flippin' HUGE and only suitable for those with very big hands. The XD .45 grip is far better than the standard 21.

Personally, I'd pass on the _crunchenticker_ SIGs and HKs. The consistent triggers on the Glock/XD/M&P guns make them easier to shoot well for most people.


----------



## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

Mike Barham said:


> Personally, I'd pass on the _crunchenticker_ SIGs and HKs.


Of course, if you cock them first, they only go tick ...

... oh yeah, and they also go

BANG! :mrgreen:

WM


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

This is true, *WM*!

One of my failings is that I always think of pistols as defense/carry guns first, and seldom consider them as purely recreational items. At the casual range, one does of course always have time to thumb back the hammer.

And yes, as the BANG implies, both the SIG and HK are very reliable guns! My father carried a P220 for a time, and was extremely pleased with its reliability. He still shot better with my (single action) Commander, though! :mrgreen:


----------



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Yes, my Croatian built XD is a striker fired "Single Action", since the striker moves from a "pre-cocked" position... but has no hammer... go figure.

Never found anything bad built in Croatia.... Course, I only own TWO Croatian made items... and they both go BANG... every time.

Jeff


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Yeah that XD seems to be a hot little doodad that Springfield has latched onto.. I'm told the XD is totally unchanged from the original HS2000 which was HS America's import (to the states) before Sfield got hold of them signing over the name Extended X Duty D.. The thing I think about it is "Croatia" !!??!! Who'd a thunk it. But hey.. if it's a solid consistent product with minimal variance gun to gun to gun, so be it. 

I like the grip safety and the versitility of the compact version with the magazine grip extension for more rounds or short mag for carrying with either 4" or 5" barrel. The 5" 9655 strikes me as the best of all worlds.. 5" accuracy, short or full grip.. cool!

I also read that glock article about the G21SF... Appears to be THE version to have in the .45 acp for a reasonable grip-size for a human.. great - now I can't find it online.. Also can't find anything on the SF on glock's site.. would I be the first to say their English site uh stinks compared to the competition?:smt022

The only thing (and I mean ONLY) that I've read in criticism of the XD's is somewhere I can't find now mentioned to watch out on the XD's for rust, but also that it shouldn't be an issue if appropriately maintained, which I'd think should be S.O.P. anyway.

(disclaimer.. handgun newb reading a bunch of forums and magazines so take anything I say as just newb 1st impressions) :smt1099


----------



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

if you want to buy a new one...
today - i would suggest the kimber custom II SS
not the most expensive, not the cheapest
it is a good value 1911 45acp - 2" groups at 25 yds - good enough
my first 45 was a colt with out the beaver tail and it smarted - i had a custom gunsmith add one -that was 40 years ago - today they come from the manufacturers that way
there is nothing like a 1911 pistol !!


For polymers...
The glock 21 was too big for my hand and the SF version was over hyped - not that much change
the S&W s are just too new
The XDs would be worth a look and feel


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

> the only thing (and I mean ONLY) that I've read in criticism of the XD's is somewhere I can't find now mentioned to watch out on the XD's for rust


To that criticism you can add a bore axis higher than the Glock or M&P, and a trigger reset longer than either. Neither of which is likely to matter much to a new shooter, to be honest. 



> today - i would suggest the kimber custom II SS


And I would suggest avoiding Kimber completely. In the last few years, three serious shooters I know personally spent money on a Kimber and ended up selling it because it didn't work. Forum member *Old Padawan* sent his back to Yonkers three times before he gave up in disgust, and this was after Kimber replaced the first faulty gun with a second that _also didn't work_. Other friends didn't have as much patience.

A fourth friend just bought a Warrior. It malfunctioned multiple times in his first range trip. I'm waiting on a report from his second firing session.

I realize some people have Kimbers that are very reliable, but it seems like way too much of a gamble at this point. If I wanted a 1911 in that general price range, I would walk right by the Kimbers and look at the S&Ws. But it's crap like this that made me dismiss 1911s altogether and start carrying Glocks.


----------



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

thanks mike for the new info on kimbers
i do think that sometimes manufacturers make the tollerances so close that something could happen like you mentioned

i also understand the glock comment
since glock doesn't make a good 45 for average hands I have almost lost my love for the 45 and going all 9mm - (can't believe i said that)


----------



## Wandering Man (Jul 9, 2006)

hideit said:


> thanks mike for the new info on kimbers
> i do think that sometimes manufacturers make the tollerances so close that something could happen like you mentioned
> 
> i also understand the glock comment
> since glock doesn't make a good 45 for average hands I have almost lost my love for the 45 and going all 9mm - (can't believe i said that)


For the record, my Kimber Compact CDP II had a few Stovepipe (exactly 12 out of 500) problems during the first 500 rounds. 6 of those stove pipes occurred when I was trying out new self-defense rounds. It did need a break in period. But, I have had no jams, stovepipes, FTF's, etc since then (about 2,000 rounds and counting), and have been feeding it a wide range of ammo types.

So that's three bad Kimbers and only one good Kimber that's been posted about Kimber on this thread. Typically you don't notice things that work, only things that don't work, and so it the bad experiences that tend to get reported. Mike has pointed out many times to take what you read on forums and in gun magazines with a grain of salt.

If three out of every five guns produced by Kimber were defective, Kimber would soon be out of business.

WM


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Well said, *WM*, and I am pleased your pistol works well. However, my sample size is actually five Kimbers: the initial three, the second one that *Old Pad* got back from Kimber, and the recently-purchased Warrior. All three are/were owned by serious shooters, and were also the only Kimbers purchased among my groups of shooting buddies and friends. _All_ of them, save the Warrior which may or may not improve, were lemons.

Maybe my buddies just have terrible luck, but I also got quite a bit of not-so-happy feedback from Kimber customers I spoke to by phone while at Galco.


----------



## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> And I would suggest avoiding Kimber completely. ...If I wanted a 1911 in that general price range, I would walk right by the Kimbers and look at the S&Ws.


Seems like the Springfield 1911's are fairly popular.. Would the $500-800 versions be a decent budget alternative to the Kimbers or S&W's?


----------



## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

My wife bought a used S&W all SS 1911 and I thought she had went nuts. Of corse I had to shoot it some and in about three months I bought a new S&W 1911 SC-PD Commander. Neither pistol has ever had a problem with FTF,FTE, or stove piping. They have had very little factory ammo run through them and have never failed to go bang. Like Mike says I would take a look at the S&W line. Good luck.


----------



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm guessing Kimber MADE excellent guns.

The popularity of the 1911 style pistol has really jumped in the past few years, and with it, rate of production. One of the big winners in that jump in popularity, has been Kimber.

If I am correct, Kimber started out as a relatively small volume semi-custom-shop manufacturer. When I first started shopping for guns years ago, Kimber was an awesome, expensive, gorgeous gun, but "too expensive".

Now, years later, the volume is up, the price is down... a little... and so may be the quality.

I know a number of people who bought Kimbers 5, 6, 7 years ago, and have fantastic shooting, super-reliable guns. More recently??? Who knows.

My fiance owns a Volkwagon New Beetle... It's designed in Germany, and manufactured in Mexico... and it's got Mexican assembly written allllll over it. Does Kimber have a similar issue?

My $0.02


----------



## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffWard said:


> ...it's got Mexican assembly written allllll over it. Does Kimber have a similar issue?


Hmmmmmm, maybe the illegals have finally made it from Arizona to Yonkers. :mrgreen:


----------



## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

If I'm looking for a .45 ACP I'm also looking for it to say 1911 somewhere too. Time tested, battle proven, Just plasin nice pistols. The only thing better than one 1911 is two of em :mrgreen::smt023:smt1099


----------



## 0440 (Dec 3, 2007)

*1911*

by all means.........I shoot a 1937 Colt commerical 45. real tight gun. shoots better then me. Alternate, get a reasonable (but where) 1911 mulitary surplus and have it done over by a good 1911 gunsmith. Would then be as good as anything on the market today............


----------



## Joeshwa24 (Nov 14, 2007)

0440 said:


> by all means.........I shoot a 1937 Colt commerical 45. real tight gun. shoots better then me. Alternate, get a reasonable (but where) 1911 mulitary surplus and have it done over by a good 1911 gunsmith. Would then be as good as anything on the market today............


I wouldnt say as good as "Anything" on the market however if you were to get a good springfield GI 1911a1 and send it in to good gunsmith it would be a really nice 1911. A sleeper to which in my opinion is really cool. My 2 cents


----------

