# From my 1911 exported friends...



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I know there is another thread dealing with preferred brands, but I would like to get input from a smaller, more elite group of experts with life's experience about what 1911 you like best. Share as you wish whether it is simply one 1911 or multiple depending on circumstances. I have loved the 1911 since I new what one was, and I'm endeavoring to learn more about this phenomenal platform. My interests lie mainly for defense purposes, but not limited to strictly carrying one. Of course, a lot of competition practices spill over into the defense realm, so please share anything you feel relevant.

Thanks in advance for your time!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

BTW, the title is supposed to read EXPERTED, not exported. Auto correct... :-/


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

There's a lot of ground to cover in "what I like best" context is huge. 


For the most part I like 5" Gov't profiled guns chambered in 
.45ACP. I like Springfield TRPs and their Custom Shop guns, Wilsons and Nighthawks. I might get my hands on an Ed Brown one day.

I like good durable finishes and Heinie sights. 

I like VZ G10 grip panels. 

I like Wilson magazines

I like bushing barrels 

I like G I plug and sprig guides as opposed to full length guide rods when applicable. 

I like textured front straps

I like a nicely fitted beaver tail.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

It is said Chris Kyle used a Springfield TRP for a while in the field. It is a good looking gun! I don't know much about the Nighthawks. What do you like about them?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I doubt very much that he used a TRP while serving but it's possible. SEALS have the 226 as a general issue pistol as well as others based on needs of mission such as the HK Mk23 and 45c. They have a Walther PPQ variant as well if I recall. ..

As or Nighthawk the put out a nice quality product and have good attention to detail. Lately I think they have kind of lost some of their mojo with their line of collaboration guns etc. But when I had my gun built by then I was impressed with every bit of the process.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VAMarine said:


> I doubt very much that he used a TRP while serving. SEALS have the 226 as a general issue pistol as well as others based on needs of mission such as the HK Mk23 and 45c. They have a Walther PPQ variant as well if I recall. ..
> 
> As or Nighthawk the put out a nice quality product and have good attention to detail. Lately I think they have kind of lost some of their mojo with their line of collaboration guns etc. But when I had my gun built by then I was impressed with every bit of the process.


He said in his book that he used the TRP on a few missions until it was damaged in an explosion, then used the P220 b/c he was not a fan of the 9mm.

I haven't heard much about Nighthawk recently, but I know they were strong a few years ago. Same with Para Ordinance. Not sure why they sort of faded from the marketing realm, but I just don't see much of either anymore.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Nighthawk is higher end so there's less talk. Very few dealers carry them and I've been told that Wilson has better price breaks for dealers.

As for a Para....there's a couple of reasons that I'll go over later....


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I personally like the 45 acp. The 1911 has a great trigger along with the position of the safety (the downward motion of the safety feels very natural).
When the first shot is the only shot you're gonna have, I'll choose my 1911. 
A 9mm might expand but a 45 will never shrink. :smt033


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

SO...


About Para.


Para has never been a major player in the 1911 market. They had some nice niche offerings in their double stacks and LDA models but they could never keep their catalogue consistent and to add insult to injury they went and did some stupid design / features ideas that never went over well. 

The "Grasping Grooves", crappy Parakote finish, and Power Extractor (PXT) were pretty big flops.

Mixed with some varying levels of QC issues they started loosing what bit of market share they had. 

Last year they started turning some things around but who knows if it will be enough or a case of too little too late. 

I just heard a rumor that Remington might absorb them in their entirety after being purchased the Freedom Group...



Now back to what I like in a 1911.

I like inertia firing pin safeties as opposed to mechanical ones.

Depending on what exact parts and purpose I like ambi safeties but they aren't a must have. 

I like steel frames. 

I like the Ed Brown Bobtail feature or the newer "Round-butt" offerings.

I like Dan Wessons

In lower cost brackets I like the Rock Island pistols. They have a pretty good rep. 

I have a love / hate relationship with Colt. If they don't tank they might just start putting out guns I'm happy with out of the box. I just wish they'd do a little more dehorn work on their guns.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VA, if there was only one 1911 you could have, which would you choose?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I shudder to think of such a thing....

Probably Wilson Combat.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I've been looking at them, and they are quite nice.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I have two identical 1911s that were built for me by a gunsmith who was also a close friend.
Alas, he is now long gone to his well-merited reward.
One of them started life as a Colt's Series 70, and the other is a "parts gun" on an Essex frame and slide.
Both are "hard chromed," with squared trigger-guards and 3.5-pound, long triggers, pinned grip safeties, ambidextrous thumb safties, lowered-and-flared ejection ports, collet barrel bushings, "rowel" hammers, big and thick sights, and a few other "mods and prods."

The same guy built me an Officers'-Model-size, all-steel carry piece, also based upon Essex parts, with the same modifications as my two competition pistols. It's blued, rather than chromed.

This information is probably of no use to you, since the guns are old and their maker is dead, but my list of modifications might be of some service.
I suggest that it requires a few years of hard practice and use, to allow you to make meaningful decisions about what modifications are best for you.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks, Steve. I appreciate your input. Time is the one thing I intend to put in to this study, which is partly why I've posed this question to those, like you, who have extensive experience with these guns. You can't just read this stuff on line and gain the personal input on this level. 

Thanks again!
GC


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Would any of you be willing to take the Springfield Mil-Spec 1911 into combat or on the street as a carry gun?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I carry a plain Jane 1911a1 A few minor modifications done like 3 lb trigger pull a little polishing. I keep the standard sights on it because I know they will stay put, I am very active and want one that can take what ever I dish out. I have one 1911a1 that I can bulleyes target with but it is not for carry. I know I am old school on my carry pistol but it works for me.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> Would any of you be willing to take the Springfield Mil-Spec 1911 into combat or on the street as a carry gun?


I've never had one in my own hands. I only know about it from the gun mags.
However...
As long as the pistol functions reliably, I see no reason why it should not prove appropriate for self-defensive concealed carry.
A polished feed ramp is nice, but it's unnecessary if you're shooting FMJ Ball ammunition.
The tiny sights of the original 1911 and 1911A1 military-issue versions do not cause difficulty at close range, assuming some modicum of practice. One just learns to use the silhouette of the rear-end of the pistol as one's alignment tool, rather than its sights.
The frame shape and long trigger of the 1911, and the scalloped frame and shorter trigger of the 1911A1, can both be easily coped-with. The arched mainspring housing of the 1911A1 would require some extra practice, and I wouldn't _like_ using it in any case, but I certainly _could_ use it.
The standard 1911 ejection port works quite well. The lowered and flared ejection port merely saves wear-and-tear on the brass, for reloading.
I would miss most a crisper trigger action. I can cope with a weighty trigger, although my choice would be pressure lower than four pounds.

The most difficult part of a pistol to conceal is its handle. The standard-size 1911 has a large, blocky handle that is hard to conceal. Nevertheless, it can certainly be done, and I (and many others) have successfully done it.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

The mil spec is a very nice piece, I like the shorter safety verses the extended lever bar version , I think the longer bar safety on some other 1911's makes it easier to unknowingly trip off the safety.

The traditional safety ,I find also fits the thumbbreak holsters that I prefer for the cocked n locked carry.

One negative I hear about the Springfield mil spec is they could be tough on your hand webbing (between the thumb and forefinger)sometimes causes actual bleeding. 
A friend of mine loves his mil spec, but he bleeds every time he shoots numerous rounds through the gun. I also heard about this online. 
:smt1099


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## DirtyDog (Oct 16, 2014)

pic said:


> The mil spec is a very nice piece, I like the shorter safety verses the extended lever bar version , I think the longer bar safety on some other 1911's makes it easier to not knowingly trip off the safety.
> 
> The traditional safety ,I find also fits the thumbbreak holsters that I prefer for the cocked n locked carry.
> 
> ...


Why wouldn't he resolve this issue by simply installing a beavertail grip safety? My Para Ordnance P14-45 had the same sort of narrow tang on it as the mil spec, and it would bite the hand that feeds it every time I took it to the range. A beavertail safety is cheap, and the install is super easy.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

DirtyDog said:


> Why wouldn't he resolve this issue by simply installing a beavertail grip safety? My Para Ordnance P14-45 had the same sort of narrow tang on it as the mil spec, and it would bite the hand that feeds it every time I took it to the range. A beavertail safety is cheap, and the install is super easy.


If that's the fix? I'm with you.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> Would any of you be willing to take the Springfield Mil-Spec 1911 into combat or on the street as a carry gun?


If that's all I had, sure. But you get a better equipped Ruger 1911 for not much more than a Milspec.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

How do you rate the Ruger 1911s?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Appreciate all the input! Good stuff, thanks!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I have owned many 1911s over the years - I just figured it out and the total is 10. I've worked my way up in value after buying my first stainless Springfield Milspec 1911 back in 1996. It was only $425 for a stainless one back then. I will say that the milspecs were better back then than now. Springer always got the parts made in Brazil by Imbel, but they put some fluff and buff into them themselves. Now, they sell a lot more guns, and all the Milspecs and almost all Loaded models are 100% put together and fitted in Brazil. 

Maybe Imbel used to do a better job too - but I will say that I haven't been that impressed with the Milspecs and loaded models I pick up now - not compared to how the guns used to be. I mean, they are still great guns to build off of. But the triggers really seem to suck, and I've seen other issues here and there. Most of these issues can easily be fixed - but the average gun buyer doesn't want to buy a new gun and immediately get started on upgrades... Especially if you are new to 1911s. 

Now, some guys heavily into 1911s will get one and use it as a base gun for some modifications. And, it's great for that... But, just my 2 cents... The Springer milspec I used to have that I bought back in the 1990s was much better than what I see now.

As for the Ruger - it seems nice - the only issue I see is that there is too much rattle and play in the trigger when you hold it and examine it. However, I am used to the higher end models - and, truthfully, once you get into the more expensive 1911s, it's very hard to find a cheap one that you don't see something wrong with.... 

I was going to buy a Sig 1911 a few months back, so I could have a beater and not worry about messing up my Ed Brown and Dan Wesson. I went to a couple of gun shows to look - and I must say that there is a wide variation of fit and finish on Sig 1911s... I mean, I could look at 10 of the exact same model across multiple dealers... One would have 1 particular issue that I didn't like, and then another one wouldn't have that problem, but some other fit issue that bugged me. A 1911 newbie probably wouldn't have noticed. In the end, I ended up not finding a Sig 1911 I wanted. I saved some more money and sold 1 more gun and ended up buying a 2nd Dan Wesson.

I've previously owned a Springfield TRP before - I would say that it's worth spending another $150 or so (you may even find one for less than that) and buying a Dan Wesson Valor. Out of any 1911 I have owned, the stainless Valor I have is my favorite. I had just put $500 down on my Brown back in July, and went into another guns hop a few hours later. I made the mistake of picking it up.... I played with it about 20 minutes, and then went home to decide what I could afford to sell to come back and buy it. I went back 10 minutes later and purchased it. I didn't even know I wanted a Dan Wesson Valor until after I picked it up 

I owned an Ed Brown Special Forces a few years ago, and I had decided I wanted one again. And, it's a great Brown that I have now. But I will say that had I found that Dan Wesson a week earlier, I don't think I would have bought the Brown...

I've owned a Springfield Custom Shop gun before as well - waited about 13 months for it, and paid $3k. But, I had some issues with it. I much prefer the Dan Wesson. I know it's still considered a "production gun" and not a semi custom like an Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Springer Custom Shop... But, it's probably the nicest "production gun" you can get, and it's really a sweet gun. I ended up buying a Dan Wesson Valor bobtail a month or so ago.

I went from zero 1911s back to 3 since July. I had been without one for a few years now. And, I shot a friend's Nighthawk back in May that gave me the bug again. I'm calling it quit at the 3 I have, though. I'm satisfied, and there is no sense in spending anymore money....

I think a Ruger 1911 would be a good starting gun. There is even a new model of Ruger 1911 with nigh sights that just came out. I saw one at a local shop yesterday.

I've talked about this with other 1911 friends of mine. We all agree that if someone jumps straight into the platform and buys a high end gun right away - they won't appreciate it as much. It takes time to lean the platform, and find out what you like and don't like on a 1911. You'll be more knowledgeable, and you will then appreciate a higher end 1911 a lot more.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Oh, since it was stated above... Some of my fav things for a 1911 are:

I like the VZ double diamond grips. Only non rubber 1911 grips I have ever liked. I have them on all 3 of my 1911s now.

For magazines - I only ever buy Tripp Cobra mags. Best 1911 magazine you can buy. They are not cheap, though. With shipping, one is like $40 (about $35 before shipping). I have used Wilson, Chip McCormick, Springer, Kimber Checkmate and many other brands. The Tripp mags are my favorite. I have factory mags that came with my 3 1911s that I use, but for new ones I buy - I get them from Tripp.

I personally like stainless 1911s the best, although, I have done hard chrome a time or two. Hard chrome is very scratch resistant to leather holsters. Hard chrome is not aw rust resistant as people think, though. I have seen some rusted hard chrome pistols. If you do get rust on hard chrome, the plating must be removed and redone. There is no other way to really fix it. Hard chrome can vary from specimen to specimen - in that there are microscopic cracks in the hard chrome. You could have two identical hard chromed 1911s. If you carry both and sweat on them - one might rust and one might now. It's sorta luck of the draw. 

Some places are better at hard chroming than others, though. I used to be big into hard chrome, and I had a lot of slides and other non 1911 guns hard chromed over the years. So, I did a lot of reading on the matter before I had my first one done.

My most recent Dan Wesson is black, though. After all these years of silver colored 1911s, I decided I wanted something different for the last one I'd probably be buying. It was also the first time I ever bought one smaller than a government model size.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Detonics Combat Master for me because of it's short grip, compact size and no "mim" parts.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> How do you rate the Ruger 1911s?


They are a solid gun for the money. Ruger takes care of their customers and their guns so it's a safe bet.

They now have them in black nitride with night sights.

Ruger® SR1911® Centerfire Pistol Models

This is probably my new "go to" recommendation gun for under $1K


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VAMarine said:


> They are a solid gun for the money. Ruger takes care of their customers and their guns so it's a safe bet.
> 
> They now have them in black nitride with night sights.
> 
> ...


Nice looking gun!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks again for all the input. Greatly appreciated!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

This is also a nice looking gun. 
http://cz-usa.com/product/dw-specialist-45-acp-black-tactical-2-dot-tritium-sights-8-rd-mags/

I think I would like one with the picatinny rails, and that Ruger looks really good also. Of course, these two are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but both could have a solid place in the inventory.

Thoughts on the RIA 1911s? I know Tony Pasley carries one, and I know a few folks personally who have them and love them.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I hear good things about RIA, but I wouldn't buy one, honestly.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> This is also a nice looking gun.
> http://cz-usa.com/product/dw-specialist-45-acp-black-tactical-2-dot-tritium-sights-8-rd-mags/
> 
> I think I would like one with the picatinny rails, and that Ruger looks really good also. Of course, these two are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but both could have a solid place in the inventory.
> ...


If you have the funds to buy higher than RIA you should do so.

The DW Specialist is nice. There was a used one for sale on one of the forums not long ago for a nice price.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I was going to buy a Specialist, but once I got my hand on one, I found I didn't like it as much as the Valor. So, check it out before you buy one. But, they are less expensive than the Valor.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> I was going to buy a Specialist, but once I got my hand on one, I found I didn't like it as much as the Valor. So, check it out before you buy one. But, they are less expensive than the Valor.


Will do...thanks for the input and advice.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

The Valor is really an awesome gun


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

All great looking guns. So you like the DWV over the EB, uh?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes, it is close. Don't get me wrong - the Brown is super nice. And, if you compare the two part by part, you can see a little more fit and finish between the two - but it is somewhat minor when you compare them.

I'm not selling the Brown, but like I said above - I don't think I would have sunk the $2400 into the Brown had I seen the Valor 1 week earlier. 

And, when I was getting a commander sized 1911 - I was down to the Brown Executive Carry, the Brown Kobra Karry and the duty coated Dan Wesson VBOB. The VBOB was like $500 cheaper than the Kobra Karry (the Executive Carry was another $200 more). I could have gotten any of the 3. I liked the feel of the VBOB the best. I really like the Valor series of the Dan Wessons. 

These two Dan Wessons are the first time I've ever had sights that were not 3 dot sights that I liked. I have been contemplating changing out the ones on my Brown to match. I also never really liked thin grips on a 1911 until I got the first Valor. I made one change to my Brown order once I placed it - I had thin grips put on it too.

I also like the feel of the Valor checkering over the checking that Brown uses on the Executive Carry.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

OK, so today I acquired a Springfield MC Operator 1911. They had a TRP, but it was stainless, and the MCO was black/olive drab. It feels pretty good, and I actually wanted a rail gun. My LGS guy recommended the MCO over the Colt Railgun, and I liked it better myself, so that is what I procured. I traded my Springfield Mil Spec in on it. I'll post some pics later.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Nice. I just traded off my Colt Rail Gun. The MC Operator is a nice piece. Only a couple of things I'd change. I'd replace the locking main spring housing with a standard MSH, I usually buy one of the VZ aluminum ones with my grips and ditch thr full lenght guide rod for a GI set up but that's just my personal tatses. The gun is good to go as is.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I had a MC Operator a few years ago. Sold it to help pay for the Ed Brown I had a few years back. Very nice gun. It had less felt recoil than the Brown, because it was heavier with the rail. 

I just hate that Springfield puts silver rings around the tritium instead of white paint. At my indoor range, it makes it very hard to see the front dot.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VAMarine said:


> Nice. I just traded off my Colt Rail Gun. The MC Operator is a nice piece. Only a couple of things I'd change. I'd replace the locking main spring housing with a standard MSH, I usually buy one of the VZ aluminum ones with my grips and ditch thr full lenght guide rod for a GI set up but that's just my personal tatses. The gun is good to go as is.


It already has the GI guide rod. Why would you replace MSH? It it b/c of the ILS? I may get the VZ grips and I can get the front strap checked by my local GS for around $100. I really liked the TRP, but wanted a black gun and the rail. Loved the checkering on the TRP though. Very nice pistol. If it has been the black version I probably would have gone that way, but I really do like the look of the MCO.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> I had a MC Operator a few years ago. Sold it to help pay for the Ed Brown I had a few years back. Very nice gun. It had less felt recoil than the Brown, because it was heavier with the rail.
> 
> I just hate that Springfield puts silver rings around the tritium instead of white paint. At my indoor range, it makes it very hard to see the front dot.


I like the less felt recoil! One of the things I love about a 1911 is the recoil is not bad at all, so if this one has even less, then great! I'm with you on the sites. I thought they were a little small, but they seemed to be the same on all the standard NS. Still, though, not too bad on the whole. Looking forward to shooting soon.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pic said:


> ...One negative I hear about the Springfield mil spec is they could be tough on your hand webbing (between the thumb and forefinger)sometimes causes actual bleeding.
> A friend of mine loves his mil spec, but he bleeds every time he shoots numerous rounds through the gun. I also heard about this online.


No beavertail safety is required. After some extensive practice, a callous will form on the thumb web, and the bleeding will go away. But the operative term is "extensive practice."
A beavertail safety is nice, but a little more difficult to conceal.

Truth: I wish that the beavertail safety had been widely available, when my friend was building my pistols. I would have had them installed on all three.

My Star PD, slightly inferior to a Colt's 1911, has a much smoother upper backstrap and, once its thumb safety had been faired into the backstrap's curve, it never drew blood. (The original shape of the PD's thumb safety was sharp-edged, however. Not good.)


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Anyone,
My colt govt.70 series that I traded to a friend years ago, I never had any issues with bleeding. 
I need a refresher here.
Is the Springfield mil spec built to the same specs as the colt govt.70 series?
Or is there an earlier version? 
Thanks,

Oh!! BTW., Congrats GCBHM on your new piece


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

LOL...thanks, pic. I love the Series 70, and to be honest, I never had an issue with pinching or biting with mine or the Mil Spec, and I owned two Mil Specs. Now, my hands are not large. Some may even say I have small hands for a man 5'11" @ 200lbs, but as far as the specs, I would think the Colt Series 70 is a little nicer, unless you get the Mil Spec that has the match spec stainless barrel. I've had both SA Mil Specs (with and without the stainless barrel) and they both handle about the same, but I think the trigger on the Series 70 is a little better. But I'm not a 1911 expert.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I had a Milspec in the 1990s. I had some work done to it after owning it a while, but I left the factory grip safety on it. At the time, it gave me no issues and I liked it. Now, after owning a lot of guns with beavertail grip safties, I don't like them anymore. But, I never had any injuries.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Yeah I don't like the ILS as it requires the mechanism to be locked for proper detail strip and I just don't want to mess with it.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

The ILS also increases the trigger weight a tiny bit...


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

Congratulations on the new piece. While we are on the subject I wonder what your exports have say about S&W 1911's just in general. My LGS has quite a nice selection in the $1200 to $800 range.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I looked at some. I almost bought the base model stainless one years ago. at the time, there were some issues with the plunger tube coming off the frame. But, that was years ago and is not an issue anymore.

I looked at the E series again recently when looking at the Sigs a few months back. I have read good things about their guns. The only thing I didn't like was that the dot pattern on the 3 dot sights was unusual. It just looked weird to me. Hard to explain - you'd just have to look at one yourself.

In the past, there was one or two S&W Professional series 1911s I probably would have bought - but the particular models only came with all black adjustable sights. I didn't want that. 

Just look at them and see what you think. Check the trigger to see if it rattles and also the trigger weight. And, see how the fit is on the thumb safety and slide to frame fit (on the specimens in your local gun shop). If everything meets your expectations, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if it is in your price range.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

rustygun said:


> Congratulations on the new piece. While we are on the subject I wonder what your exports have say about S&W 1911's just in general. My LGS has quite a nice selection in the $1200 to $800 range.


I don't know, but I will ask them next time I'm there. I know they had a lot of nice looking S&W 1911s for a pretty price. I believe the S&Ws are on the upper scale for the most part, from what I've seen. Seen a lot of good reviews and no cheap price tags.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks for the reply's.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I've always felt underwhelmed by the Smith 1911s. They look great in pictures but in person they just look rough.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...Also, I believe the external extractor to be an abomination.

If the sainted J.M. Browning had wanted an external extractor, God would've given him one.

(If you want to read a long philosophical essay on why I don't like external extractors on 1911s, just ask.)


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

That doesn't bother me, if it's done right. S&W has never had an issue with that and got it right from the get go. Kimber went to the external extractor for a while, and it gave them fits.

If U like one of their guns, I'd consider this a non issue


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Also, I believe the external extractor to be an abomination.
> 
> If the sainted J.M. Browning had wanted an external extractor, God would've given him one.
> 
> (If you want to read a long philosophical essay on why I don't like external extractors on 1911s, just ask.)


You don't have to write an essay on my account I know that really erks some 1911 guys. Much the same way the external lock on their revolvers erks some people.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

By the way...
I have another heretical methodology, relating to my 1911s: I like smooth grip panels.
Here's why:
The controlling points of hand-grip contact, particularly when using a grip like the Government Model's, are the front-strap and the back-strap. Contact with the side panels adds almost nothing to the shooter's control of the pistol.
So the front- and back-straps of my 1911s, as well as of most of our other semi-autos, are pretty sharply checkered. (Stippling is also OK.) But their grips' side panels are all smooth.
The advantage of doing it this way becomes obvious when the shooter needs to do a quick, secure reload. Remember that most people's thumbs will not reach the magazine release unless the position of the hand shifts first.
If the shooter relaxes his right-hand grip on the pistol _just a little_, his left hand can rotate the gun without moving very much, thereby bringing the magazine release around to meet his right hand's thumb. Press, and the magazine drops, while at the same time the left hand goes for the reload. With practice, this is both smooth and quick.
Smooth side panels make this move easier, while "grippy" side panels impede it.

_Internal vs. External Extractors_:
Both systems work equally well, in a properly-designed pistol.
But Browning gave the 1911 an _internal_ extractor because it was removable, and replaceable, without tools. His entire design was built around the concept of being repairable in the field, by any reasonably well-trained soldier. You can completely detail-strip any 1911 without using any tool other than a few of the pistol's other parts.
But you can't do that if the extractor is of the external, spring-loaded, pin-secured persuasion, such as that of the S&W "1911." Removing that kind of extractor requires tools, including an armorer's block.
As lagniappe, the Browning-designed internal extractor is also easier to tune and to modify, if, for instance, your pistol throws empties down your neck.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

I've owned just about every 1911 up to about the $1200 price point and I have 1 5" left now - a S&W E-Series...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

NGIB, how do you like your E?


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> NGIB, how do you like your E?


Well enough that it's my only 5" 1911 now. My 4" is a Kimber Eclipse Pro II and my 6" is a Springer Stainless Target Longslide...


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