# If a drone trespasses on your property, should you have the right to shoot it down?



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The Daily Caller


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

I believe you need a Drone hunting license with tag.


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## ybnorml (Nov 26, 2014)

I wouldn't hesitate.....


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

GCBHM said:


> The Daily Caller


Define trespass ? Do we own the airspace ? And if so? How high is our property line


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Is it invading your expectation of privacy?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The government claims to own airspace. They set the precedent for us to own it also.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't know what the FAA would say about shooting one down, but I came very close to dropping one with a sand wedge and a Titleist Pro V1 golf ball. Some bone head was having fun buzzing our group on the 12th tee last summer with his little 4 rotor drone and went in to a hover for long enough for me to switch to my 56 degree wedge. I opened the face slightly and gave it a full swing. I missed but by inches not feet. It would have been easy with a shotgun.
GW


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

pic said:


> Define trespass ?* Do we own the airspace ? *And if so? How high is our property line


As a matter of fact we do. All the way to the heavens. Of course it is subject to "legitimate" overflight, under the regulations of the FAA.

http://aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Typically speaking, we don't own mineral rights, so why would we own any air space? 

Not saying that I wouldn't take any action, just not saying how I'd do it. :numbchuck:


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> Typically speaking, we don't own mineral rights, so why would we own any air space?
> 
> Not saying that I wouldn't take any action, just not saying how I'd do it. :numbchuck:


I would have to look into this further, but I would think if we own the land, we own all its contents, to include mineral rights. Good question.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I guess it all depends, a shotgun loaded with birdshot, maybe. At any rate I wouldn't want to try it unless I got permission from Joe Biden. Anything other than that I doubt it. Those bullets are going to have to come down someplace. If the trajectory is right it could be lethal. There was an episode on the TV show "Myth Busters" where they fired different caliber rounds from both rifles and handguns straight up into the air. They landed in the desert and they were able to find the bullets and determine whether it would be fatal. What they found was the rounds would travel as far as possible expending all of their energy and fall as fast as gravity would allow. It would indeed cause injury but not enough to kill somebody. However if the guns were fired at an angle to the horizon they could indeed be fatal. Not only that the drone might have a camera and transmitter. The operator would know my address see my face and I would probably get a visit from my local police department and be charged with reckless endangerment and the illegal discharge of a firearm within city limits. Would I like to shoot it down? *Hell yeah!* With my double barrel 12 gauge, loaded with 000 buckshot, both barrels at the same time. Is it a wise idea? *Hell no!*


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Some kind of high pressure air gun / tube, shooting wads with small nets in them would do the job, and......it would be legal.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

It could be Google or Amazon making a delivery from Brownells or Midway.:smt018
GW


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Potato gun - loaded with cake.... Amazing how much you can have with one of those...


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SailDesign said:


> Potato gun - loaded with cake.... Amazing how much you can have with one of those...


Or.....spaghetti left over from last night's dinner.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SailDesign said:


> Potato gun - loaded with cake.... Amazing how much you can have with one of those...


I think a potato trailing some heavy fishing line would work.
GW


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

TurboHonda said:


> As a matter of fact we do. All the way to the heavens. Of course it is subject to "legitimate" overflight, under the regulations of the FAA.
> 
> Ownership of Airspace Over Property - Aviation


Quoting my own post.
When it is said that man owns, or may own, to the heavens, that
merely means that no one can acquire a right to the space above
him that will limit him in whatever use he can make of it as a part
of his enjoyment of the land. To this extent his title to the air is
paramount. No other person can acquire any title or exclusive
right to any space above him.

Any use of such air or space *by *others which is injurious to his
land or which constitutes an actual interference with his possession
or his beneficial use thereof would be a trespass for which
he would have a remedy. But any claim of the landowner beyond
this cannot find a precedent in law, nor support in reason.7
7. Hinman v. Pacific Air Transport, 84 F.2d _755 _(9th Cir. 1936).


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> Some kind of high pressure air gun / tube, shooting wads with small nets in them would do the job, and......it would be legal.


I've been wanting to build a large bore airgun that shoots ice cubes. I got the idea a couple of years ago when I had some ducks trying to use my pool. I like ducks but I don't like duck sh*t. I chase them away by throwing ice cubes. They're almost as good as rocks, with no cleanup.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

TurboHonda said:


> I've been wanting to build a large bore airgun that shoots ice cubes. I got the idea a couple of years ago when I had some ducks trying to use my pool. I like ducks but I don't like duck sh*t. I chase them away by throwing ice cubes. They're almost as good as rocks, with no cleanup.


Now that is interesting. I have heard of shooting ammonia balls from paintball guns, but not the ice thing.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper:


> Or.....spaghetti left over from last night's dinner.


Yeah! I could load it in my "shop vac" from the blower end. There are all sorts of nasty things that could be blown out of that and not cause a problem except that is for the owner of the drone.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> Typically speaking, we don't own mineral rights, so why would we own any air space?
> 
> Not saying that I wouldn't take any action, just not saying how I'd do it. :numbchuck:


So I have been burying all my money in somebody else's dirt?

Oh , btw , do not bury paper money, it will be gobbled up by tiny little bugs.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> So I have been burying all my money in somebody else's dirt?
> 
> Oh , btw , do not bury paper money, it will be gobbled up by tiny little bugs.


Naw.....you're okay. But.....if you happen to discover oil, gold and or silver in / on your property, best keep that info. all to yourself.

When you install that big, tall oil rig, just put a couple antennas on it and say it's a cell phone tower. :smt033


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I see no reason why you shouldn't except for firearms discharge regulations within your immediate area. An exception would be if you believed you and/or yours were in imminent danger of serious harm or worse.


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

For those of you who wish to fantasize about such things, I present:

"Johnny Dronehunter: Defender of Privacy"

Link>>> 




(disclaimer - this is an ad-type video, teasing the release of Silencerco's Salvo 12 Shotgun Silencer. I have no connection to the company, do not condone or suggest any such actions, and the video is presented here for its entertainment value only)

I will recommend muting or turning the volume way down, based on the music used for the soundtrack (just an opinion).


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

And of course, you'd need the right ammo...

Tactnition Anti-Drone Shotgun Rounds - The Firearm Blog


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

The idea of drones flying over someone's property does introduce a whole new set of questions and concerns as to how this pertains to one's state and the federal Constitution. Policing authorities already have sensitive listening devices they can use while driving by a home to see what might be going on inside. Invasion of our Fourth Amendment rights seems to be getting trampled from a variety of angles.

You have to believe that governments really hate the Bill of Rights... which just goes to show how right Henry and Mason were to insist upon this hallowed document.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Would it be allowed to have a watchdog drone? I saw drones automatically patrolling (GPS guided) in a certain square above the a military base. The drones were equipped with a camera. But what about equip such a drone with a BB gun? That would be plenty enough to bring that stuff down, at least above your own property. I could be charged with damage to property. Right?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

When they talk about "taking care" of troublesome wolves up north they practice the three S rule. Shoot, shovel, and shut up about it. It might work for drones as well. Theoretically speaking of course.:smt083
GW


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## shootbrownelk (May 18, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> I would have to look into this further, but I would think if we own the land, we own all its contents, to include mineral rights. Good question.


 In Wyoming, property owners own the surface. They may or may not own the mineral rights. An oil or gas drilling company who owns the mineral rights under your surface rights, can come in and drill a well 100yds away from your front door if they want to. And they do this a lot around the Cheyenne area I'm told.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

shootbrownelk said:


> In Wyoming, property owners own the surface. They may or may not own the mineral rights. An oil or gas drilling company who owns the mineral rights under your surface rights, can come in and drill a well 100yds away from your front door if they want to. And they do this a lot around the Cheyenne area I'm told.


So people in Wyoming don't have a buffer of what is above and below their surface property? That is very interesting. I would NOT want to have some drilling company come onto my land and start drilling without my permission and compensation. After all, they have to enter on the surface before they can set up surface equipment.... right? That just seems nuts.


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## almanor (Jun 15, 2013)

https://www.google.com/search?q=dro...er-drone-hunting-licenses-bounties%2F;640;480


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The owner of a piece of land owns the mineral rights UNLESS the mineral rights were specifically excepted from the deed - they usually are, dating back for decades. It may not say so on your deed, because the person you bought the land from did not own the mineral rights, either. He may have included language that suggests that he transfers any minerals that he has, but it doesn't mean that he had any to transfer, in the first place. You may have to trace the records back many years to discover who owns the minerals. 

The owner of the mineral rights can lease them to an oil company for drilling, without owning the surface. So, in theory, the driller may enter onto your property, without your permission. In reality, they negotiate for damages to the surface owner, who can usually be dealt with because his chances of winning a lawsuit against an oil company with deep pockets are not great, and because the larger companies are usually fairly generous about paying damages.

As far as owning the airspace above your land, it used to be that you did, and may still be so. But, there may be city or county ordnances, or one of our mysterious federal agencies may have made a rule that now is viewed as a law, so I don't know.

EDIT: This may vary somewhat from state to state, but it will usually be something similar.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> After all, they have to enter on the surface before they can set up surface equipment.... right?


Not necessarily. With modern technology, they may buy or lease a small surface area nearby and slant drill, or even horizontally drill the well. They now have the ability to guide the drill bit to the bottom of the hole from a distant location. It is more expensive, but may pay off because of the savings in legal bills.


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Chances are you don't and have no rights in the airspace, which is why commercial airliners can fly over your house willy-nilly. Chances are you don't own the mineral rights either, even if you own the property. Can you shoot down the drone? Good luck with that.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

You can shoot the drone down, if for defensive purposes. 

You might be able to take forceful action against the drone if your privacy is invaded.

If a Drone takes a picture of you masturbating, you should destroy that "son of a bitch". Lol

:smt033


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> You can shoot the drone down, if for defensive purposes.
> 
> You might be able to take forceful action against the drone if your privacy is invaded.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking the drone in question would have to be an armed predator drone, before you could shoot it down and then claim you were in fear for your life.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

If I shoot a drone down it couldn't be much of a problem. What you gonna charge me for? Drone cruelty? I would shoot it down that is not the problem. The problem is to detect this stuff. There must be a reason why it is there. They observe my e-mails and my internet activity. They check may regular mail coming in and out and they track my movements with my car (on star). The record my phone conversations and store my text messages for decades. They know exactly what product we buy and what we when eat (credit/debit card). Now they sending in drones the listen in what I tell my wife in the bedroom.

A friend of mine said, well - let them do it I have nothing to hide and than he didn't get the promotion because what he said to his brother on his private telephone conversation.
No you don't have to masturbate or have a sex hour with your pastors wife in your living room. And now just think the drone and the computer messes up and stores the wrong pictuere and the wrong statement with your name. That could be easily live threatening. 

The problem is to detect this stuff shooting it down shouldn't be a problem.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Bisley said:


> Not necessarily. With modern technology, they may buy or lease a small surface area nearby and slant drill, or even horizontally drill the well. They now have the ability to guide the drill bit to the bottom of the hole from a distant location. It is more expensive, but may pay off because of the savings in legal bills.


Yes I do know this. I am a HUGE proponent of property rights, be they real or personal. That was the reason for my post of concern with this issue.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Scorpion8 said:


> Chances are you don't and have no rights in the airspace, which is why commercial airliners can fly over your house willy-nilly. Chances are you don't own the mineral rights either, even if you own the property. Can you shoot down the drone? Good luck with that.


It is my understanding that you do own airspace rights to a certain height. Don't know what that might be without looking it up but it would seem to make sense.


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> It is my understanding that you do own airspace rights to a certain height. Don't know what that might be without looking it up but it would seem to make sense.


You own the "airspace" for what is considered a reasonable building property height. If your area is zoned single-family residential, then the city would object or deny your plans to build a skyscraper. I really don't see what the fuss is about, because if you don't like drones, just take a look at the low-res imagining available from GoogleEarth? Don't like that, imagine what the hi-rez stuff that we don't get to see is really like. Yea, I'll bet you bend over in your garden and the NSA can tell the brand of your tightie-whities.


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

Sounds like the time to have your own drone. RAMMING SPEED!!!


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Scorpion8 said:


> You own the "airspace" for what is considered a reasonable building property height. If your area is zoned single-family residential, then the city would object or deny your plans to build a skyscraper. I really don't see what the fuss is about, because if you don't like drones, just take a look at the low-res imagining available from GoogleEarth? Don't like that, imagine what the hi-rez stuff that we don't get to see is really like. Yea, I'll bet you bend over in your garden and the NSA can tell the brand of your tightie-whities.


I get the impression that the unwanted drones are not so much the NSA, but the kid next door spying ion your wife/daughter getting changed or sunbathing. THOSE ones I'm getting my old slingshot out for. :snipe:


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

SailDesign said:


> I get the impression that the unwanted drones are not so much the NSA, but the kid next door spying ion your wife/daughter getting changed or sunbathing. THOSE ones I'm getting my old slingshot out for. :snipe:


In that case, you would have the right and obligation to remove the offending object from the sky. Failure to do so, combined with our knowledge of the event, would be cause for extreme ridicule.
Smiley Face, Bless your heart, etc.etc.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> I'm thinking the drone in question would have to be an armed predator drone, before you could shoot it down and then claim you were in fear for your life.


Might have to increase the test strength of the line , on my fishing pole.

There's more then one way to skin a drone.

Fishing without a license ?? Wait, I think I do have a fishing license. Ha


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## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

SailDesign said:


> I get the impression that the unwanted drones are not so much the NSA, but the kid next door spying ion your wife/daughter getting changed or sunbathing. THOSE ones I'm getting my old slingshot out for. :snipe:


Peeping Toms are a whole different matter. There's plenty of muskeg up here to hide dead bodies in .....


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Scorpion8 said:


> You own the "airspace" for what is considered a reasonable building property height. If your area is zoned single-family residential, then the city would object or deny your plans to build a skyscraper. I really don't see what the fuss is about, because if you don't like drones, just take a look at the low-res imagining available from GoogleEarth? Don't like that, imagine what the hi-rez stuff that we don't get to see is really like. Yea, I'll bet you bend over in your garden and the NSA can tell the brand of your tightie-whities.


*"You own the "airspace" for what is considered a reasonable building property height."*
Yes I am aware of this and it was to this of which I was referring. We have helicopters flying low over our development frequently so any thoughts of, say, a 2,000 foot ceiling are out the window.

*"..imagine what the hi-rez stuff that we don't get to see is really like."*
I know this to be fact. I once saw a picture taken from such a satellite in which you could read the headline of a newspaper someone was reading.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

SailDesign said:


> I get the impression that the unwanted drones are not so much the NSA, *but the kid next door spying ion your wife/daughter getting changed or sunbathing.* THOSE ones I'm getting my old slingshot out for. :snipe:


About ten years ago, there was an older man a block away from me that I later learned had some small cameras installed under his eves as protection against break-ins. Turns out he had one of them aimed at a neighbor's house across the street from him... their master bedroom to be exact. He would record the lady of the house in that bedroom doing what adults do.


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## shootbrownelk (May 18, 2014)

Bisley said:


> The owner of a piece of land owns the mineral rights UNLESS the mineral rights were specifically excepted from the deed - they usually are, dating back for decades. It may not say so on your deed, because the person you bought the land from did not own the mineral rights, either. He may have included language that suggests that he transfers any minerals that he has, but it doesn't mean that he had any to transfer, in the first place. You may have to trace the records back many years to discover who owns the minerals.
> 
> The owner of the mineral rights can lease them to an oil company for drilling, without owning the surface. So, in theory, the driller may enter onto your property, without your permission. In reality, they negotiate for damages to the surface owner, who can usually be dealt with because his chances of winning a lawsuit against an oil company with deep pockets are not great, and because the larger companies are usually fairly generous about paying damages.
> 
> ...


 Right Bisley, out here a rancher who has a lease on state land can collect damage to the surface payments (For Grass/feed loss) from the oil companies and split the payments with the state. Sometimes the payments the rancher receives far exceeds what he paid for the lease. To say the Wyoming legislature is top-heavy with ranching interests is an understatement. And they do drill adjacent to homes, they're trying to do that to some homeowners just north of Casper. It was in the newspaper.


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## shootbrownelk (May 18, 2014)

SouthernBoy said:


> So people in Wyoming don't have a buffer of what is above and below their surface property? That is very interesting. I would NOT want to have some drilling company come onto my land and start drilling without my permission and compensation. After all, they have to enter on the surface before they can set up surface equipment.... right? That just seems nuts.


 There is a buffer zone, I believe it's not very much though. They will compensate for a road across or to your property. Big deal...can you imagine the prospect of trying to sell your home with a filty, polluted oil patch road and all the truck traffic on and around your land? Who'd buy it? The oil companies pay what they want to pay, you can take them to court but you'd surely lose.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

If you notice a drone in the air anywhere you should shoot it down... using lead-free ammo. Handguns are inadequately accurate for this purpose, so carry a black rifle when outdoors; well, a black shotgun is OK, if it's full choke.

Yes there are situations that preclude wearing a shoulder weapon. Avoid those situations.

[Sorry, should have specified validity in non-urban areas of Vermont, New Hampshire, difficult-to-access parts of Adirondack Park, and the Idaho Panhandle.]


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

Uncertainty of one's rights is a surefire way to lose one's rights. I own the airspace above my property. I own it, to the extent it can be owned, all the way to the heavens. That means no one else can own it to the same extent as me. But, just like the surface, I am restricted by existing easements, zoning laws, noise and nuisance laws, building height laws, aviation use, etc. By the same token, others are restricted from encroachment into my airspace, such as platforms, anchored dirigibles, overhead cranes, non easement power lines, and such. Even unwanted tree limbs from my neighbor's trees may be removed, as long as I don't enter his property to do it. (That would be trespassing.) 

The FAR's pretty much prohibit aircraft flying below 500 feet. (See FAR 91.119) At the same time I believe the suggested rules for drones will restrict them to below 300 feet and in view of the operator. That, in my mind, will narrow down drone spying to the situations that Sail Design described. In any case, a hovering drone over my pool is gonna get wet.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

This morning a empty giggle face in GMA/ABC TV answered the question what to do with drones flying over the property.

The White House security spokes man said in TV that Drones flying over the White House Property and that would be a security threat.
The drones could be equipped with cameras and microphones that could invade the privacy of the president or could also be equipped with weapons or even a bomb.

So they looking for technical equipment to detect drones and bring them down.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
So Drones that appear over my property could be equipped with cameras or microphones that invade my privacy or even be equipped with weapons or a bomb that is a security threat to my life and therefore I bring it down.

It is interesting to know that the Regime in Washington DC don't even trust themselves and their own created security forces and spy and causing threats on each other. 
So if the Regime don't even trust themselves, why should I?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Hh


PT111Pro said:


> This morning a empty giggle face in GMA/ABC TV answered the question what to do with drones flying over the property.
> 
> The White House security spokes man said in TV that Drones flying over the White House Property and that would be a security threat.
> The drones could be equipped with cameras and microphones that could invade the privacy of the president or could also be equipped with weapons or even a bomb.
> ...


Sounds very just,,,but do you really compare yourself with the "goose" ?
you may be the gander, lol. On a very wide spectrum.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> I'm thinking the drone in question would have to be an armed predator drone, before you could shoot it down and then claim you were in fear for your life.


I have gone my whole life being very careful, not to get caught in the act, I'm not saying I admit to ever once masturbating.

But the time , and premeditated effort that was put forth to conceal this act of self pleasure,

I could have , looking back , applied that energy into a great college education, or some type of business activity, I would have something to show for it.

I'll be dam if I would allow a drone to finally catch me in the act , that i spent many years perfecting without ever getting caught.

That drone would be in serious danger,lol , just hope it's not a live feed,, the girls will be tearing down the front door to take over once they had a view , lol.
:goofy::smt169


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