# 9mm or 45acp???



## Ruger71 (Jan 15, 2007)

Which is your preference and why? Is the power (energy) comparable between the two? I haven't shot either and so not know anyone who has one I can. I am looking for an auto and trying to inform myself. The 9mm is alot cheaper to shoot, but I am thinking th 45 would be more powerful (home defense, woods backup).


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

9mm:

Cheaper to shoot
Lighter recoil
Guns can be made smaller
Usually holds more BBs
Adequate for defense

.45ACP:

Hits somewhat harder than 9mm (assuming similar bullet designs)
Usually lesser muzzle flash
Easier to reload/handload

Whichever you choose for defense is almost irrelevant compared to mindset, gunhandling, marksmanship, and tactics.


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

One small bit to add to the great info above -- You'll have a bit more choices in models if you go with the 9mm. Unless of course if you want a 1911-style of pistol, which I wouldn't recommend for someone just starting out....

PhilR.


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## JimmySays (Jun 8, 2007)

Both is a viable alternative. Do your best to master all the firearms you can, while you still can.
IMHO the .45acp is not your best backwoods gun, keep it in the city.
You might consider a .40 S&W,1200 FPS and 500 FPE is better than most .45ACP ammo and the recoil is not much worse than the 9MM.
The Glock 22 is the prefered sidearm of a lot of LEO's. I am quite sure there is a reason behind that.
Reguardless of what you choose, safety is paramount!


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## Dragonfire (Jun 17, 2007)

I would go with 9mm. If its your first gun you will shoot it more (cheaper and less recoil = fun). Shooting it more equates to better shot placement.


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## Ruger71 (Jan 15, 2007)

PhilR. said:


> One small bit to add to the great info above -- You'll have a bit more choices in models if you go with the 9mm. Unless of course if you want a 1911-style of pistol, which I wouldn't recommend for someone just starting out....
> 
> PhilR.


The 1911 is what I was looking at. What is the down side????

:watching::watching::watching:


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

Ruger71 said:


> The 1911 is what I was looking at. What is the down side????
> 
> :watching::watching::watching:


Your original post gives me the impression that you are not experienced with automatics. The 1911's are not as easily de-cocked as many other pistols. They are slower to get ready to fire if you keep the hammer down, and keeping the hammer cocked requires the use of the safety, and carrying "cocked-and-locked" requires a bit of practice to draw/use quickly, efficiently, and safely. They normally don't come with loaded chamber indicators, so many will "press-check" them. This can be a dangerous move if you don't know what you are doing.

1911's are fine carry weapons if you are willing to invest the time to learn proper carry techniques, and use a holster that will prevent you from inadvertently bumping the safety lever to the off position.

PhilR.


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## awmp (Nov 11, 2007)

They both have their pros and cons. I like 9mm due to the cost of ammo, high capacity mags, easy to shoot, usually light to carry. I carry a Kimber Ultra CDP II 1911 and an XD45 Service model. I like the 45, size of the round, easier for me to shoot then my .40SWs, there is something about 13+1 rounds in my XD. My next purchase will be an XD9. With the designs of self defense ammo it is a tough choice. But heck that is half the fun.


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## Alaskan_Viking (Jun 13, 2006)

Ruger71 said:


> The 1911 is what I was looking at. What is the down side????
> 
> :watching::watching::watching:


It's old, (it was first issued when the U.S ARMY still used horse Cavalry!) It jams, it's heavy, it's unsafe and it only holds 7+1 rounds. there are newer, better handguns out there.:smt083

But hey don't take my word for it...

_The Colt model 1911 and its many clones is touted as 'the weapon' for successful handgun use in ISPC shooting circles and also as an ideal civilian defensive handgun in the civilian shooting schools. fortunately, most Law Enforcement has not bought into the recommendations of the guros and shooting Cults which have evolved around this antiquated, but still famous handgun._

~ Rex Applegate


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I chose "both"...









Why decide? For the price of one good 1911, you can have a .45ACP fullsize, and a 9mm SubCompact...

IMHO

Jeff


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

jeff
i couldn't agree more


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Alaskan_Viking said:


> It's old, (it was first issued when the U.S ARMY still used horse Cavalry!) It jams, it's heavy, it's unsafe and it only holds 7+1 rounds. there are newer, better handguns out there.:smt083


Well, just because a design is old doesn't mean it sucks. The AR15 design that has become the darling of the shooting world lately is 40 years old. The M1A that is worshiped by the Molon Labe crowd is based on the Garand design of the 1930s. Almost every bolt-action rifle in widespread hunting use today owes its basic design to Paul Mauser's rifle of 1898.

There are lightweight 1911s, and have been since 1949 when Colt designed the Commander.

What is unsafe about the 1911? It is _perfectly_ safe in the hands of a competent shooter. All you have to do is keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you're ready to shoot. It isn't rocket science. "Modern" Glocks are implicated in more negligent discharges than 1911s - and I say that as a Glock guy.



> But hey don't take my word for it...
> 
> _The Colt model 1911 and its many clones is touted as 'the weapon' for successful handgun use in ISPC shooting circles and also as an ideal civilian defensive handgun in the civilian shooting schools. fortunately, most Law Enforcement has not bought into the recommendations of the guros and shooting Cults which have evolved around this antiquated, but still famous handgun._
> 
> ~ Rex Applegate


And speaking of old...here comes Rex Applegate.

He's obviously beating up Jeff Cooper, who did more to advance the art of defensive pistol shooting than anyone in history, including Rex Applegate. While I do not agree with everything Jeff Cooper advocated, he was certainly able to prove the superior aspects of the 1911 - excellent trigger, low bore axis, short trigger reset, good "pointability" - and demonstrate that it was head and shoulders above most other defensive handguns. Even today, there are only a very few designs that are comparable to it in terms of ease of use, and it shoots circles around most "modern" designs.

And it's _IPSC_, and _guru_. :mrgreen:


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## Hokkmike (Oct 22, 2007)

I have shot both. The 9mm is cheaper and more comfortable. But recently I have become a big .40 S & W fan, so much so, that I am trying to sell my 9mm SIG P-225 (actually a P-6) to get one. Check out the .40 caliber as a great compromise to he 9 and .45.


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## FHBrumb (Oct 27, 2007)

Either one will protect you.

Either can be found in a pistol that functions well.

Either (practice rounds) can be found at Wal*Mart for pretty cheap.

Either has controllable recoil, unless you are talking a really small pistol.

I personally do not like 9mm. Way back, it was because most of my shooting was reloads. These days, I don't have time for a sub-hobby, so off to Wal*Mart I go before each shooting session. So maybe I could "get over it now". If I wanted a very small pistol, then 9mm would be considered at this point.

I like 40 S&W, and many 9mm pistols offer a 40 option, if you look for it. It's a little more muzzle energy, with minimal increase in recoil. Definately a good compromise for those "on the fence".

I had a Springfield 1911 in 45ACP, and got it tricked out for IPSC way "back in the day". I hated that pistol. The day I bought it, it didn't fit my hand well. Period paragraph, end of story. Over a year (and over $1500 in upgrades) later, it was a Limited Class contender, and it still didn't fit my hand worth crap, and I couldn't shoot it worth crap. I traded (lost big bucks) for a pistol (Glock 22) that did fit my hand well, and proceeded to shoot much better (and thereby more often) immediately.

Frank's gun choosing routine:
Narrow choices based on QC reputation of a manufacturer.

Hold it, stand in the corner of the shop/store and point it, draw it from a holster, if they will let you. How does it feel in your hand? Alien, or right at home?

Availability of magazines and accessories. 

Local smith that will work on it? (A Firestar 40 bit me on that one once...)

Caliber selection.

Price. (At this point, it's "when" not "if" buying.)

And as stated above, shot placement is far more important than caliber or bullet type. A 115gr 9mm ball dead center mass is better than a 230gr 45 +P JHP in an armed bad guy's left foot...

Just my $0.02:smt083


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch... Sage advice.

ROFLMAO :anim_lol:

I'll remember that, Mike... Thanks.


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## FHBrumb (Oct 27, 2007)

"All you have to do is keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you're ready to shoot. It isn't rocket science."

~Mike Barham

My new sig line...


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## dovehunter (Dec 18, 2007)

*Are you kidding me?*

"It's old, (it was first issued when the U.S ARMY still used horse Cavalry!) It jams, it's heavy, it's unsafe and it only holds 7+1 rounds. there are newer, better handguns out there."

I guess you have not seen or heard about the 1911's that are hi-cap. And for being unsafe, all guns are unsafe only to fools who don't know how to handle one.


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## Joeshwa24 (Nov 14, 2007)

If you want to go with a 1911 I think budget would seriously dictate whether to get the 9mm or the .45acp. If you don’t have the money to buy a really nice 9mm 1911 then I would remove it from consideration as the low-end 9mm 1911's tend to be very unreliable and a pain to take care of. Honestly (And I am a big time XD lover) the Springfield GI 1911a1 its one of the finest in its price range but any 1911 you buy you must be vigilant about taking care of, clean and oil it after every use and it will treat you well, ignore it and it will be a source of loathing in your shooting experience.


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*Lmao*

I'll still be giggling tomorrow. Right now; just got off the floor:smt023
LMAO thank you very much "Mike"


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## RoadRnnr69 (Dec 23, 2007)

I shot an XD45 at the range. It belongs to a friend of mine, it shoots very nice!!!
He also has the .40 in the same gun and the .45 ACP shoots smoother with less recoil, at least from my ameture experience/opinion.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I have 2 Springer 1911's - One a 45 the other a 9mm, The 9 I only use for target practice being it has a REALLY light trigger and there is pretty much no flip with a full size 1911 9mm. Both are fantastic though. As stated above..you might want to shoot a couple 1911's before you open your wallet. They are not for everyone. :smt1099


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

Ah, the eternal argument. This definitely ranks in the top 5 over-discussed topics on gun forums.

In short, a 9mm is a smaller bullet moving faster. Overall recoil is less because of the reduced mass, but the recoil is sharper as, to accelerate it to a higher speed in a comparable barrel length, the pressure at the time the bullet clears the muzzle and releases the gas pressure is higher than in a .45. This can also create more muzzle flip in the recoil as opposed to a straighter "pushback", but this is highly dependent on the gun's design and construction and the handler's grip. And yes, it is the cheaper of the two particularly for practice ammo, though the difference is reduced when talking about defense rounds.

A .45ACP is the opposite; its recoil is more forceful but the impulse is over a longer period of time; the bullet is heavier and thus requires more energy to move, but the bullet does not have to be accelerated as fast as a 9 to have the same muzzle energy. 45s tend to push back rather than flip, though I know a few 45s that flip harder than 9s (mostly sub-compacts which have less grip). It is more expensive, but not much more so than .40S&W, and still cheaper than most handgun rounds and some auto rounds.

All of this really is dependent on the gun. A full-size model in either caliber will not recoil as hard nor flip as much as a compact or subcompact. A higher bore axis (the point at which the fired cartridge pushes back on the gun in relation to the pivot at the web of your hand) will flip more than a lower bore axis, but a point of ignition more forward in the gun flips less than a gun where the point of ignition is immediately over the pivot. A polymer frame has a higher center of mass which creates a higher moment of inertia (less kick up at ignition), but nearly all the metal on such a gun is in the slide, therefore when the slide reaches the rearmost point of travel the parts of the gun remaining stationary receive the same hit from the slide as a metal frame, but into less mass than a metal frame, so a polymer frame of either caliber will in most cases kick upward more.

As far as effectiveness, the 45 will have more energy and make a bigger hole, but a 9mm will penetrate better, making a deeper hole, and allow you to make more holes per second more easily as the gun will be easier to bring back on target. As a human, I wouldn't want to get hit with either; they're both very serviceable rounds easily capable of fatal damage with a single shot.


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## Edward Nigma (Nov 19, 2007)

JimmySays said:


> You might consider a .40 S&W,1200 FPS and 500 FPE is better than most .45ACP ammo and the recoil is not much worse than the 9MM.


Well, that depends on what type of shooter you are. I'm a somewhat slender person, and I cannot handle the recoil of .40 when I try to shoot it quickly. The ejected shells shoot right back into my face when I try to shoot .40 quickly. I can however shoot 9mm quickly all day long with no such issues. My experience with the .40 has its recoil just as harsh as the .45 and much more than the 9mm.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

what he said...


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## neophyte (Aug 13, 2007)

*still*

and I'm still thinking about "Mike's" bugger hook off the trigger:anim_lol:


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## Nastynewt (Jan 22, 2007)

I picked up a Colt 1911 Gov Model NIB and 50 rounds for $110 out the door in 1972 and I am still shooting it today.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

I prefer the shove of .45 rather than the snap of 9mm,,,I like big and slow rather than smaller and fast...and 3 extra clips counter the ammo difference...I like the heavier gun, though the P90 I carry now doesn't weigh what the Combat Commander did...I agree with hitting what you shoot at and bullet design/powder to "up" the 9mm...the military went to the 9mm for a lot of reasons and since I've heard personally and read that they're not happy with it's anti-personnel performance...some units have begged for and gotten .45s, as well as M14s, and the recruiter who signed up my second son said the Army is taking bids on .40s...trying to get the best of both worlds...in my opinion, nothing slaps like 230 gr. of lead...since they're limited to ball ammo...we shall see...I know our troops deserve the best....if I were Pres., I'd give them XD45s......but I'm not...


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

> the military went to the 9mm for a lot of reasons and since I've heard personally and read that they're not happy with it's anti-personnel performance...some units have begged for and gotten .45s, as well as M14s, and the recruiter who signed up my second son said the Army is taking bids on .40s...trying to get the best of both worlds...


I don't know how many people have been shot with 9mms in Iraq, but very bloody few have been shot with them here in Afghanistan. The guys in my battalion have been in countless engagements, and no one has even fired a single shot from a pistol in a fight, to the best of my knowledge. .45s are mainly in use by special ops guys rather than regular Joes, though I live next to an SF compound, and all I see are M9s and a very few others - and no 1911s at all. Soldiers are by nature complainers, and if they can't find something to complain about, they'll invent something. ;-)

M14s are/were issued to some SDMs, though our SDMs just use M4s with ACOGs. We have a few M14s in our sniper squad. One of my close friends in the snipers told me three nights ago that the M14s mainly sit on the base and are used very infrequently.

The Army is not taking bids on .40s, and in fact just bought thousands more M9s. Only one thing about a recruiter is always reliable: if his lips are moving, he's lying.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

...so does that mean that my son won't be the General over the Honor Guard at Fort Knox when he gets out of boot camp...and it's longer than 7 days??????? When I came to the end of my hitch, the Corps offered me 6K and Sgt. to re-up-had to see the recruiter and get signed off on...he gave me his spiel, and I asked him if he had a calculator...told him to divide that 6k by 6(years), he was happy to...then by 12(months)...yeah, yeah, then by 4(weeks)....then I asked him if that was small enough to stick up his a.. or did he need to divide it again.....I got a cussin'...and I got my chit signed...guess some things never change...that was 37 years ago......wow...


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