# Should people know that you are carrying on their property?



## AIM RIGHT (Jun 19, 2011)

I got into a discussion on this topic today. My opinion on this topic is, if the property owner that you may be on doesn't have a sign saying "no firearms" I'm going to carry concealed because out of sight out of mind. I carry concealed and even if I know a property owner may not like firearms if I'm carrying concealed that owner won't know unless I tell them I'm armed. Same thing in public many people with many opinions but as long as I'm concealed its out of sight out of mind. That's my opinion, now let's hear some others on the forum opinion on this topic.This thread is for the ones that want to reply that area they are in allows them by law to make this decision.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

in some jurisdictions you MUST inform the property owner, its a felony if you dont.... 

that said, i open carry, my friends and acquaintances KNOW i am carrying.... if a property owner doesnt want me to carry, i leave.


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

Where I am it is not required to notify property owner and I carry concealed so no issues....JJ


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

i shall clarify... in some jurisdictions the owner of a business may post a sign, the sign may or may not have the force of law... if so , violating it can be a felony

in some jurisdictions HOMEOWNERS must be notified BEFORE you carry on their property, violation of this may also be a felony.....

please consult your own state and local ordinances 

a gun violation , even a misdemeanor may jeopardize your concealed carry permit forever


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

No single answer to this question.
It all depends.

Some have already pointed out jurisdiction may be factor. Others are:
Is it zoned Commercial property?
Is it zoned Residential property?
Is it zoned public property?
Is it a business that is open to the general public?

For commercial property and businesses open to the general public, my opinion is that you should not be required to disclose you are carrying. If they have a policy prohibiting firearms, it needs to be posted.

For Residential property, I think it depends. If you are knocking on your neighbors door to borrow a cup of milk, then no. But if your neighbor asks you to babysit the kids at their house for a few hours and you are gonna carry, then Yes. The threshold is multi-faceted: If kids are going to be around while you are on their property for more than 15 minutes, I think you should tell them. If you are going to spend more than a short time on a person's property...let's say you have been hired to do lawnwork....then yes. 

For public property, that would be clearly defined by the State and Local Laws and Regulations. And that usually depends on the type of public property: driving on the public roads or going into the courthouse will have different disclosure rules. 

It depends.
CC


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## Holly (Oct 15, 2011)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> ...in some jurisdictions HOMEOWNERS must be notified BEFORE you carry on their property, violation of this may also be a felony.


I would always ask a homeowner if they are comfortable with it. I would hope someone entering my home would give me the same respect.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Holly said:


> I would always ask a homeowner if they are comfortable with it. I would hope someone entering my home would give me the same respect.


i am not telling anyone what they should or shouldnt do, i AM however saying that the law will tell you what you MUST do, and the laws vary


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## AIM RIGHT (Jun 19, 2011)

I 100% agree with following the law every law abiding citizen should, I'm just saying if your carrying concealed and if the property your on doesn't
have any restriction of you having a firearm and the owner never said anything about not wanting firearms on their property, but they just don't like firearms as a personal choice, out of respect for that person carrying concealed is "out of site out of mind" if your state allows concealed carry. But if any property/homeowner told me I don't want you carrying on my property I would respect that person decision and not carry on their home or property. But everyone should know their state laws regarding how and were you can carry i agree 100%.


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## AIM RIGHT (Jun 19, 2011)

chessail77 said:


> Where I am it is not required to notify property owner and I carry concealed so no issues....JJ


These are the members I was looking for to respond to this thread when I started the thread, the ones that have the option to make this decision because the area they live in laws allows them to. This thread was only meant for people to respond that live in areas that laws that give them the option to make this choice. It seems like this post got off topic because its only meant for people to respond that have this option by law and if they had the option would they?, I should've clarified this when I started this thread.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

My concealment methods are good. No one has called me on carrying concealed for many years.

I never tell anyone. I carry everywhere. (except schools and post office and sherriff's office, etc. where it is a clear violation of law).

I am of the school of thought that you should conceal well, and keep your mouth shut. Only my club members and my original references know that I own guns (and probably my housekeeper who has seen holsters around and some magazines).

The fewer people that know you own a fire arm, the less chance that someone will break into your house to steal them. Even if you trust the people you tell, they might mention it to someone who you wouldn't tell.

Conceal well; obey the law; and keep my mouth shut. That is my method.


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

Packard said:


> My concealment methods are good. No one has called me on carrying concealed for many years.
> 
> I never tell anyone. I carry everywhere. (except schools and post office and sherriff's office, etc. where it is a clear violation of law).
> 
> ...


This is great advice.

However, don't you think property owners deserve the right to know if you are going to spend time on their property or in their house?
CC


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

If I am in someones home that would have a direct bearing on my answer and I would inform them but not standing on the front lawn or passing through.....so best answer for me would be using my best judgement as each situation is likely different....JJ


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

cclaxton said:


> This is great advice.
> 
> However, don't you think property owners deserve the right to know if you are going to spend time on their property or in their house?
> CC


I visited my niece last weekend. She's a vegan and she teaches elementary school. She declined my offer of pepper spray to carry with her even though her husband thought it was "a great idea". So you can guess what she'd think of me bringing firearms into the house.

I visited, had a great time, and no one ever knew I had both my .357 and my .40 on me the entire time (except when I slept).

What is her right to know? Does she have to know what brand of underwear I use? Or only that I change out daily? What brand of soap I use, or that I shower regularly? How much cash I have in my pocket? How fast I drove on the way to her house? No.

Her right to know is limited to knowing that I've acted as her uncle, and my behavior is appropriate.

One day, a few years back, I went to Starbucks on nice weather day and brought along my German Shepherd Dog and I drank coffee outdoors and the dog slept at my feet.

A man walked up to me and said, "What right do you have to bring a dog like that to a place like this; my wife is afraid to sit out here because of him. You should lock him in the car!"

And I replied, "I am responsible for my dog's behavior; I am not responsible for your wife's phobias. And right now his behavior is better than yours, so perhaps it is time for you to leave."

The point being is that I am responsible for my own behavior; my niece can approve or disapprove of my behavior. That is as far as my responsibility extends. (My niece loves me; she thinks I am brilliant and irrascible; she does not know I am armed, but I have told her about the RPGs and the drone with the nuclear warhead.:mrgreen


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Concealed is concealed. I'm telling no one. I don't carry where it's illegal. If someone notifies me (legal sign or verbally) they don't want anyone with a gun on their property, I carry my weapon concealed but do not enter their property, business or residence.


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## hemmigremmie (Jan 23, 2008)

I don't respect a man that don't carry. Lol


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Packard*, I agree with you completely.
Not only that, but your little essay was very well written.

Thank you!


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

Very few people know that I carry a firearm. I think it's better for all involved that way. Most people would probably be uncomfortable if they knew. As it is, I'm sure they haven't even considered the possibility, and everyone is content in their knowledge or ignorance.

I do know of one family that is vocally anti-gun. They know I am an avid gun-owner, but don't know I carry. Whenever we are invited to their house, I don't carry a firearm inside. Not that they'd find out anyway, but I find that a more rational approach than making a big deal about it. If I ceased to interact with everyone with whom I had some difference of opinion, I'd be a hermit.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

visitors to my property will no be REQUIRED to carry firearms IF legal to do so, those who do not have one will be issued a "loaner".... if they are uncomofrtable with it, they can sit in their car, on the road and opt out of my hospitality


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

cclaxton said:


> ...[D]on't you think property owners deserve the right to know if you are going to spend time on their property or in their house?
> CC


No!

If I behave properly, and am a good guest (or customer), it's none of their business.

*Packard* wrote elsewhere that demanding such knowledge would be like demanding to know what sort of underwear I'm wearing.
I think that's an excellent example.


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> No!
> 
> If I behave properly, and am a good guest (or customer), it's none of their business.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but can your underwear be used as a weapon?.....

Nevermind...don't answer that!!!:anim_lol:
CC


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Ten points for Mr. Claxton!


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

All of my friends and aquaintances know I carry....only one of them carries......none but one has a problem with it, an aquaintances wife, so out of respect, if I am in their home, I do not bring it in with me, out of respect for the wife...otherwise, no one will know, sign or no sign....where I am, the worst is a tresspassing ticket, if someone were to call the authorities, and you refuse to leave, or lock it up in the car.....usually, in life, the less people know, the better....


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

I would only want to know for the simple fact I want to see the gun. it might be polite to ask, but in all reality if you are going over to a friend or family members house you should already know if they like guns or not, and their opinion on concealed carry.

For my mom she hates guns. I have taken mine over there and she has seen it once. While the fact she hates guns she knows how careful I am and respects me enough to not badger me about caryring and what not. In return I do my best to keep her from seeing it.

If someone comes to my house and they are carrying concealed. I may or may not know who is carrying, but the majority of the time it starts off by saying; "Hey, Chris look what I am carrying".


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

cclaxton said:


> Yeah, but can your underwear be used as a weapon?.....
> 
> Nevermind...don't answer that!!!:anim_lol:
> CC


Sure, if I've worn it long enough.:mrgreen:


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Packard nicely played......

Always carry never tell is kind of my motto. I do not think anyone has a right to know what I am packing or wearing. I will not flaunt it nor will I test the water I will just carry and say nothing.

RCG


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

i wear my underwear OVER my pants so everyone will know that i wear hanes boxers


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> i wear my underwear OVER my pants so everyone will know that i wear hanes boxers


 You know Ted, That is called the bother hood boxers code. That we are under attack by aliens.:tv:


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## AIM RIGHT (Jun 19, 2011)

cclaxton said:


> Yeah, but can your underwear be used as a weapon?.....
> 
> Nevermind...don't answer that!!!:anim_lol:
> CC


:anim_lol:


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## AIM RIGHT (Jun 19, 2011)

cclaxton said:


> Yeah, but can your underwear be used as a weapon?.....
> 
> Nevermind...don't answer that!!!:anim_lol:
> CC


:anim_lol: too funny


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*AIM RIGHT*, why are you double-posting?
*AIM RIGHT*, why are you double-posting?

(Are there two of you?)


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## AIM RIGHT (Jun 19, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *AIM RIGHT*, why are you double-posting?
> *AIM RIGHT*, why are you double-posting?
> 
> (Are there two of you?)


No, just one just a simple mistake I thought the first post didn't post.


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## TheDoug (Feb 7, 2012)

This is really quite simple, in my opinion
1) If you're on my personal property, even a close friend, I expect to know if you're carrying or not. Period. If I find out you are, and you didn't tell me, you're leaving my property. I enjoy the 2nd Amendment as much as anyone, but on my own property, I like a certain amount of situational awareness.

2) If it's commercial property, unless the law states otherwise, and they don't have a posted policy, I'm not informing the manager, or owner, etc. If they have signage posted, whether the law will back them up or not, I don't carry on their property, or I just don't go to that place of business. Laws are pretty much unimportant to me, when compared to individual rights. I don't care if I could beat their sign in court. If they don't want me carrying on their property, I won't.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> i wear my underwear OVER my pants so everyone will know that i wear hanes boxers


So that is like open carry for your underwear


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

TheDoug said:


> This is really quite simple, in my opinion
> 1) If you're on my personal property, even a close friend, I expect to know if you're carrying or not. Period. If I find out you are, and you didn't tell me, you're leaving my property. I enjoy the 2nd Amendment as much as anyone, but on my own property, I like a certain amount of situational awareness.
> 
> 2) If it's commercial property, unless the law states otherwise, and they don't have a posted policy, I'm not informing the manager, or owner, etc. If they have signage posted, whether the law will back them up or not, I don't carry on their property, or I just don't go to that place of business. Laws are pretty much unimportant to me, when compared to individual rights. I don't care if I could beat their sign in court. If they don't want me carrying on their property, I won't.


So let me get this straight. You want someone to tell you when they are carrying on your property, but you don't find it necessary to tell a owner of a business that you are. I mean seriously there is no difference. If you are going to kick someone, especially a "close friend", off your property because they didn't "inform" you that they were carrying concealed then you aren't a very good friend. Maybe you need to put a sign up that says that said person entering your property must inform you that they are armed. Maybe if you get robbed they will come knock on your bedroom dorr and tell you they are armed. you know just to be polite.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

TheDoug said:


> This is really quite simple, in my opinion
> 1) If you're on my personal property, even a close friend, I expect to know if you're carrying or not. Period. If I find out you are, and you didn't tell me, you're leaving my property. I enjoy the 2nd Amendment as much as anyone, but on my own property, I like a certain amount of situational awareness.
> ...


I see. What is your opinion on pocket knives? I almost always have one on me. Would you think it necessary for a friend to inform you of this potential weapon too? How about a sharpened pencil that I might be carrying?

That is a bit facetious of course, but the point is that a person is dangerous or not regardless if they have a weapon. A friend with a handgun is no more threatening than a friend without one. It seems a bit hypocritical to me to expect the public at large to accept that you can carry a concealed weapon, but you will not accept that others may do the same.

I suggest that the location of a person (private property, public property, school zone, whatever) is irrelevant to their threat to society. They are either dangerous or they are not.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I wand all my guests.

SuperWand™ Hand-Held Metal Detector | GarrettCentral.com


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

brevard13 said:


> so that is like open carry for your underwear


exactly !!!!


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

MLB said:


> I see. What is your opinion on pocket knives? I almost always have one on me. Would you think it necessary for a friend to inform you of this potential weapon too? How about a sharpened pencil that I might be carrying?
> 
> That is a bit facetious of course, but the point is that a person is dangerous or not regardless if they have a weapon. A friend with a handgun is no more threatening than a friend without one. It seems a bit hypocritical to me to expect the public at large to accept that you can carry a concealed weapon, but you will not accept that others may do the same.
> 
> I suggest that the location of a person (private property, public property, school zone, whatever) is irrelevant to their threat to society. They are either dangerous or they are not.


so it is the PERSON that is the danger and NOT the inanimate object used as a implement of destruction ?

what a novel idea.....


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Packard said:


> I wand all my guests...


...And I fondle all of mine. Well, the females, anyway.

It's much more fun than mere wanding.



TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> so it is the PERSON that is the danger and NOT the inanimate object used as a implement of destruction ?
> 
> what a novel idea.....


See, Ted, some people do understand.
Thanks, *MLB*.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...And I fondle all of mine. Well, the females, anyway.
> 
> It's much more fun than mere wanding.


Maybe you aren't wanding them correctly......nudge, nudge, say no more.......

RCG


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...And I fondle all of mine. Well, the females, anyway.
> 
> It's much more fun than mere wanding.
> 
> ...


i think MOST do understand and a few refuse to.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

recoilguy said:


> Maybe you aren't wanding them correctly......nudge, nudge, say no more.......
> 
> RCG


now i want to go watch some monty python


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

MOST do understand and a few refuse to


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

Brevard13 said:


> You want someone to tell you when they are carrying on your property, but you don't find it necessary to tell a owner of a business that you are. I mean seriously there is no difference.


Brevard,
There is a significant difference in law, access, and protocol between private property and commercial property, especially if commercial property is open to the public.

Private property, especially residential property, provides the owner the highest discretion as to who enters their property and under what conditions. Retail property provides general public access and thus must specify if there are rules associated with entrance to that property. Failure to post those restrictions grants the rights generally available to the public, such as carrying firearms.

They are clearly different.
CC


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

cclaxton said:


> Brevard,
> There is a significant difference in law, access, and protocol between private property and commercial property, especially if commercial property is open to the public.
> 
> Private property, especially residential property, provides the owner the highest discretion as to who enters their property and under what conditions. Retail property provides general public access and thus must specify if there are rules associated with entrance to that property. Failure to post those restrictions grants the rights generally available to the public, such as carrying firearms.
> ...


Technically it can still be considered private property as they can say who can stay and who can leave. Hence why if you don't leave you can be arrested for trespassing. However, I disagree it isn't completely different. My cousin owns a tax office. He owns the building and the property. it is open to the public, but he still owns it so it can technically be considered private property. Now if you were to walk in there are you going to tell him you have a concealed handgun. What if you walk into a garage to ask about your car getting fixed. If concealed is concealed and the person doesn't need to know because you are being respectful AND have no intent on causing problems, then why would it be any different for someone on your property, I.E. a close friend.


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## Charliefox (Dec 10, 2011)

In WA there is no duty to notify anyone you are carrying. Therefore a concealed wepon is just that; concealed until it is necessary to use. In all my years of carrying I have never seen a sign on a private business that wasn't mandated by law (anywhere alcohol is served) declaring it a "Gun Free" zone. If I did, its probably a place I wouldn't go anyway.


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## Bigpoppy (Oct 19, 2008)

Most all of my friends that I feel comfortable enough to visit their homes would be alright with me carrying concealed of course but by the same token if something were to happen that required me to use my firearm that could be another story because it would directly bring them into the situation which they might or might not be comfortable with such as going to court and becoming a witness in a court of law and I understand that totally.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Going to court is better then goingto a funeral. I am not comfortable with that at all

RCG


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

I don't know. If I am at court I get nervous. I got nervous even though I knew my expired tag was ticket was going ot get thrown out. I haven't died yet, but I am pretty sure I won't be nervous at my funeral :anim_lol:


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## Reddog1 (Oct 26, 2011)

I carry according to the law in Virginia. Other than that it is none of anyones business. If for some reason they object then I will leave. Never had it happen. I do not carry all the time, just when I think I need to. Had a Trooper friend of mine say that it was probably best just to carry responsibily and not make a big deal out of it. Good advice.


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## Ala Tom (Apr 1, 2011)

I have had my CC permit for nearly a year and have yet to start carrying. I see the carry situation as very complex. I recently read Ayoob's Gun Digest book on CC and that made it even clearer that CC is very complicated. This topic raises an aspect I never thought about. You seem to be identifying a "right" of ownership that is highly questionable. Does the owner of the property have a right to know everything that is in your pockets? You may be carrying many things to which the owner might object such as a political ad for a party to which the owner is opposed.

The only right I recognize for a property owner regarding visitors he invites onto his property is that he can expect them to behave lawfully and responsibly. The visitors can be asked to leave if they are obviously breaking a law or behaving in a way to which the owner objects or for any other reason. I would assume the owner would not invite you unless he considers you a friend. If you intend to behave like one, there is no problem as long as your weapon remains concealed and unused.

There is a reason why carrying a concealed gun to "get together" is a good idea. In many cases reported frequently on the news, someone comes to a party with a grudge against someone else there and deadly violence erupts. Example: a newly divorced woman is invited by friends to "get out of the house and meet people." Her Ex shows up and sees her talking to some man. The Ex takes out a gun and starts shooting. A person who is lawfully carrying concealed might be able to stop the bloodshed. This illustrates why I think the "owner" has no business in trying to ban people from carrying. The bad guy won't listen anyway.

In the small city where I live, this happens about once a week.

I may carry when I perceive a threat. This might in fact be one of those situations.


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## Vince_K (Feb 26, 2012)

So, lets say I am carrying a concealed firearm with permit, and I attend my friend's party... If he asks me if I'm carrying a concealed firearm, do I have to admit to it? Certainly lying occurs to me to avoid any controversy, political discussions, and possibly getting asked to leave. But is there any legal disadvantage to me if I lie to a residential property owner about carrying? If he was the property owner it may be his right to know _*only if he asks?*_ I don't know. (of course concealed is concealed and if he doesn't ask I won't tell.) Anyone know for sure?

On the other hand...
if a stranger in the park asked me if I was carrying, besides me being confused why he asked, I'd tell him it's not really any of his business. Admitting a concealed carry to someone who doesn't need to know compromises the concealed part of the carry situation. I'm wondering what other concealed carriers would say when asked by a stranger. Yes/No/None-of-your-business...


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Well, I guess that if you are carrying a concealed weapon in the home of someone who objects to that, you may be guilty of trespassing.
However, if, upon his question, you admit to being armed, he then has the ball in his court. He can accept it and drop the subject, or he can ask you to leave. If you leave upon his request, you are not guilty of anything.
On the other hand, if he doesn't ask, you needn't tell. (Now, where have I heard that phrase before?) Concealed is concealed.


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## Blade (Feb 23, 2012)

Interesting question. Now I know in Missouri, the Castle Doctrine extends not only to your residence. But any "enclosure" where you have the right to be. So that seems to imply you have the right to be armed and defend yourself in someone else's home. What it doesn't say one way or the other is whether or not having the owner's permission affects whether you have the right to be there. Gray area.

As to someone in a park asking me if I'm carrying. Actually that applies to anywhere that the question is being asked by someone other than the property owners, or someone with the right to ask, such as LEO's. Anyone asks me the answer is "None of your business". I had a guy tell me you should just say "No". But if the guy is a potential threat, and you specifically say no, you may be inviting an attack. Not only is that a situation you'd rather avoid, I could see where it might put you on shaky legal ground, if there are witnesses or the guy survives. A zealous prosecutor could contend that by telling him you weren't armed, you were intentionally trying to bate him into attacking you so you shoot him.


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## Vince_K (Feb 26, 2012)

I was thinking "none of your business" also, for the same reason as to not make myself seem like an un-armed target. However, that last sentence blew my mind. Excellent point!


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

A colleague half-jokingly asked me once if I was carrying a handgun (during a conversation on obtaining a permit). I told him (with a smile) that "if I was, I wouldn't tell you."

That response doesn't betray you either way, and reinforces the idea that "concealed is concealed."


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