# Several 92FS questions...



## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

Scored one of these today for my grandson. 

1. It came with two military issue Checkmate magazines in addition to the two Beretta factory magazines. The Checkmates worked fine. I assume they will continue to do so, absent any sand?

2. This appears to be a brand new pistol (previous owner claimed less than 200 rounds through it), and has a plastic trigger and guide rod. Should I really think about replacing these parts with metal ones? The gun will be shot, but not heavily. It is strictly for getting him acclimated to the DA/SA transition and decocking movement. He probably won't even be trained on it, much less issued one. But I want him to be familiar with it, because you just never know.

Anyway, I have no problem with procuring metal parts. OTOH, I have no problem with the plastic ones if they do not have a history of early failure. I simply do not "know" this system; Berettas are not exactly common in my former profession.

3. Is the admonition against dry firing (in the manual) legitimate, or just another manufacturer CYA attempt? The firing pin is a normal, spring-loaded inertia type...unless the FPB is in the way, etc., I don't see what dry firing could hurt.

Man... this sucker has a lot of nooks and crannies. Its as a big of a PITA to clean as a P7.

Any insight to the above questions greatly appreciated.

.

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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about replacing any parts. The Military dry fires the heck out of their weapons, including the M9, if you want to be extra cautious, get some snap caps. Cleaning is a snap, much easier than the P7. No gas tube and no little pieces under the grip panels.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

I second the military dry firing the heck out of weapons


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## loper (Nov 5, 2011)

CMI mags are OK, except for sandy places.
Don't worry about the plastic parts, every M9 I've ever taken apart had a plastic guide rod, and I've never seen any trouble with them.
We dry-fire the wheels off of everything, and I've never seen a broken M9 firing pin.
Cleaning is pretty easy, be sure you lube the locking block.
The 92/M9 is a fun piece, enjoy!


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## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. So I guess I'll leave it alone and just let the boy shoot it to his heart's content, plus dry-fire it.

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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

CDNN sells factor mags for like $18. I personally never use any mags but MDS (they make factory mags), factory mags or Mecgar mags...


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I've known the owners of Checkmate Industries for over 30 years. They are wrongly blamed for the problems with their magazines. The military asked them to find a way to reduce the cost of the magazines. They replied by offering a lower cost black finish. They submitted samples for approval. The military approved the samples and the magazines were then produced to the new specifications.

As it turned out, the new finish attracted sand and created problems. The government then reverted to the older specs. At no time did Checkmate ship any magazines that were not to the then current spec. None were rejected for quality issues. The quality of the magazines were never at issue. The sole issue was the appropriateness fo the new finish.

Sand can cause horrific damage to machinery. I used to work in a camera shop. If a customer came in with a camera that was dropped on the beach and was not working we told them to simply throw it away. The cost to repair would be more than even the most expensive cameras were worth (film cameras).

So the sand in the magazines created problems because the new finish allowed the sand to cling to the surface. The mechanical aspects of the magazines were always fine. So keep them clean and you should do well.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes, I remember you have talked about checkmate mags before - an we have discussed this.

Me personally - since so many places have factory mags for under $20 - and not the $40+ that some gun stores still wanna charge. I'd rather just pay another couple of bucks and get the factory mag.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm not telling anyone to go out and buy Checkmate magazines; I'm just saying that they supplied the parts as the military specified them and Checkmate was the one that ended up with mud on their faces.


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## loper (Nov 5, 2011)

Well, this is sort of off-topic, but I'm not anti- checkmate mags, I run a bunch of them with my M1A. They had a sand problem with the M9 mags, due to the finish, so I made the comment "O.K., except for sandy places".
As a company, I'm sure they're fine, they just got tangled up in changing spec's from Uncle Sam.
Looks like LSP972 got his questions answered, though.


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## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

Indeed I did.

While I haven't seen any "verified" troublesome magazines, and therefore am not sure what the villainous finish looks like, these two I have appear to be something other than normal phosphate/parkerizing as I know it. And they are smooth... not the rough texture I've read about. They work just fine. They do have a FSN, though.

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## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

Just thought I'd let you guys know about our "progress".

I have never had much (if any at all) interest in these pistols. We had a couple of them submitted back in 1987 when we were deciding what 9mm service pistol to transition to. The Sig P226 caught our eye. I kinda/sorta liked the 92 Compact, but quickly forgot about it in the press of transition business.

This year, a dear friend's daughter joined the Marines, and will be an MP. She has very little shooting experience and was more or less afraid of the service pistol. I borrowed a 92F from a pal and gave her a brief overview. Then, #1 grandson tells me HE is going into the Marines. So I bought the one described above. Both of them have shot the hell out of it the past ten days (she's home on leave, goes to her service school in February; he's out of school for the holidays).

Of interest here is the fact that we're up to over 700 rounds through the pistol, with no cleaning or added lubrication. It began clean and lubed. About half of the ammunition has been factory ball- economy Remington and WWB from Wally World- and the other half has been my reloads... most of which were loaded with 124 cast RNL "Green Bullets" from BayouBullets. The proprietary coating on these makes them a lot less 'dirty' than normal cast bullets, but they still are lead and not jacketed or plated.

The point of all this is, we have experienced no malfunctions; none. While my grandson has been shooting Glocks and HKs for years, these are his first forays with a Beretta. The girl is new to shooting a handgun, period. I was fully expecting a few shooter-induced malfs. Nope.

The boy and I are going back to the range today; another 200 rounds at least. I plan to keep shooting it until it begins to choke, just to see how far it will go.

I shot it bit... the experience brought back memories of wrestling with the DA/SA transition on those Sigs. That was a big obstacle to overcome, training guys who had been shooting DA revolvers for so many years. The Beretta 92 is a very easy gun to shoot; but it won't get shot unless my grandson is around. It will be his when he gets to that point in his life (out on his own) and he can "have" a pistol. While I sorta like the gun, I prefer to concentrate on the superb LEM trigger my HKs have.

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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Very cool. Realize that the 92 likes a lot of lube. You really should clean it at this point, just so you. Don't get a headache at the range...


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

You can't beat the 92F. Great looks, good caliber(with the right bullet), and tough as nails.


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## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

In case anyone is interested... we got the round count up to just over a thousand. No malfunctions, all without cleaning or additional lubrication. Then the girl went back to the marines and my grandson went back to school.

I cleaned the pistol thoroughly, lubed it well, and put it up... where it sits today. No sense in me shooting it, as I cannot even begin to see those small sights clearly. My astigmatism has gotten so bad, I'm getting ready to transition completely to red dot sighted pistols.

But 1K rounds with no cleaning and no malfunctions, almost all fired by novice shooters, is pretty darn impressive.

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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Glad to hear it


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

That's why I feel that the 92-96 is the best handgun out there.......


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## rhodco (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm just curious about the comment regarding plastic guide rods in the 92FS. My 92FS is all steel. No plastic anywhere except the grip panels. It was made in the mid 90's so I'm wondering if this is something that was changed recently?


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## AsteroidBlues (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes, I believe I heard the wise Shipwreck say that Beretta transitioned to the polymer guide rods somewhere around 2002-2003. They work better in sandbox regions thanks to the flutes in the rod.


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## rhodco (Feb 10, 2012)

Concerning the original OP's question on how much of a PITA it is to clean... I usually just field strip, remove the grip panels, and push out the pins holding the lanyard loop, and the slide stop pin. This allows the mainspring, hammer, and whatever you call that bar running through the mainspring, to drop free. Then, I spray non-chlorinated brake cleaner all around the rest of the frame parts. There is enough room to push a cotton patch down through the space where the hammer goes and out the bottom through the hole left by the lanyard loop. Let it dry while you spray the slide good. If you press the nozzle up against the firing pin hole and spray, you should see it coming out the back of the extractor. That's all I usually do with the slide because taking it down further is time consuming, not very hard, just takes a while to tap out all the pins and put them back again. (I did it once and it took me about 4 hours because I did a very thorough job not wanting to do that again). There is really no reason why you should have to take the slide apart to clean, only if there is a problem that needs to be fixed. I did it out of curiosity and once was enough for me.

Let the slide dry out and clean the barrel good. Don't forget to lubricate the locking block assy real good. I like mine slick. Lubricate the hammer before you re-install it and drop some oil down on the trigger spring. Once you put it all back together, work the action back and forth and dry fire a few times. This will bring excess oil out of the nooks and crannies for you to wipe off. After a couple of days I usually field strip it again, quickly wipe off more excess oil, and put it back together.

It's not really a PITA, more like a labor of love.


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## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

rhodco said:


> It's not really a PITA, more like a labor of love.


Sorry, but I disagree. The pistol has a bunch of nooks and crannies, and I feel obligated to get them cleaned out... and it takes a half-dozen pipe cleaners per slide AND frame.

The problem with using brake cleaner (and I do upon occasion) is that stuff removes every trace of lubricant from everything it touches, so you must be diligent in re-lubing areas that need it. I'm talking about internal pin pivot points, etc.; places you don't normally worry about in a routine field strip/cleaning.

Everything is relative. To me the 92/M9 is a lot more involved to properly clean than a Glock or HK... or a Sig, for that matter. Not a condemnation, just an observation.

Anyway... now, #2 grandson wants one. I suspect much of that is due to Call of Duty (he told me, "It has to be an M9, Granddad."), and wanting to emulate his older cousin. Well... the kid is getting fabulous grades and behaving himself at home, so an M9 he shall have. I found one, a commercial M9 with a surplus military slide still in NIB condition. It should be here next week, as a surprise for his latest killer report card.

#1 grandson has been steadily shooting his (to the detriment of my stash of SP primers and 9mm boolits). I have put some more rounds through his, and am actually starting to like the thing. Way too clunky for my purposes, but a nice-shooting pistol nonetheless. I tried to get the younger one interested in either my HK P30 or P2000, but he prefers the 92, even though he can barely reach the trigger in DA mode. But the little guy shoots it better (in SA mode) than the others, despite that great HK LEM trigger.

Fair enough. There's room in the safe for both.

But I have a few more questions. Been doing some research, and it seems that it is recommended to replace the recoil and trigger return springs at 5K rounds. I thought about putting the D spring in them, but, at least for the older boy, he needs to train with it in stock configuration.

These are range guns only for the next few years, at least. I'll overhaul the guns before giving them to the boys once they come of age, but for now, what do you think? Do I need to replace those springs at the 5K mark, or just shoot them until/if something breaks?

.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

I'll chime in. Yes the general rule is standard service load ammunition, every 5,000 to 6,000 rounds maximum; heavy load ammunition (+P), every 2,000 to 3,000 rounds maximum on the recoil spring. That's from Beretta. The recoil spring is the most important in Beretta's and my opinion for longevity of the locking block and frame. The trigger return spring at 5K? I'd argue with that in my experience, but if you wish to change it at 5,000 have at it. 

I'll give you my experience w/ my 1993 92G. Just changed the trigger return spring last year with the rest of the springs w/ over 25,000 rounds at least. Never had a breakage w/ any spring over the 18 years and 25,000 rounds. I would want to say perhaps 15,000 rounds before trigger spring replacement, but to each their own. Either factory or Wolff springs have worked for me. Likewise, concerning your earlier question regarding a steel recoil rod, which of course came with the 1993 Beretta 92, I have the option to use either a 14 or 15 pound recoil spring from Wolff as opposed to the factory 13 pound spring which won't go as long in my opinion, but I change them out according to Beretta anyway.


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## LSP972 (Nov 24, 2011)

denner said:


> The recoil spring is the most important in Beretta's and my opinion for longevity of the locking block and frame.


Okay, that makes sense. I'll get a couple of extras.

I've been shooting Beretta shotguns for quite some time, and have found their customer service to be less than sterling. Oh, they're polite enough, and usually competent, but their motto is "We will repair no gun before its time."

With that in mind, where do you guys get your 92/M9 parts from?

.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Brownell's or Midway USA has just about every part for every gun at reasonable prices with fast shipping.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

denner said:


> I'll chime in. Yes the general rule is standard service load ammunition, every 5,000 to 6,000 rounds maximum; heavy load ammunition (+P), every 2,000 to 3,000 rounds maximum on the recoil spring. That's from Beretta. The recoil spring is the most important in Beretta's and my opinion for longevity of the locking block and frame. The trigger return spring at 5K? I'd argue with that in my experience, but if you wish to change it at 5,000 have at it.
> 
> I'll give you my experience w/ my 1993 92G. Just changed the trigger return spring last year with the rest of the springs w/ over 25,000 rounds at least. Never had a breakage w/ any spring over the 18 years and 25,000 rounds. I would want to say perhaps 15,000 rounds before trigger spring replacement, but to each their own. Either factory or Wolff springs have worked for me. Likewise, concerning your earlier question regarding a steel recoil rod, which of course came with the 1993 Beretta 92, I have the option to use either a 14 or 15 pound recoil spring from Wolff as opposed to the factory 13 pound spring which won't go as long in my opinion, but I change them out according to Beretta anyway.


The recommended rate of change on the trigger return spring is every 5k by Beretta. Will it go past that before it breaks? Yes. But your one specimen that went, as you claimed, 25k is just that... One specimen. The springs can and do break way before that. I would venture to guess that one could probably get 10k rounds/10k trigger pulls out of the thing. But, changing it every 5k is a good idea... So it doesn't break at the wrong time. For every story like yours, there is one who had the spring break.

Also, changing the slide stop spring and trigger bar spring every once in a while is also a good idea. Plenty of reports of these breaking later in a guns life too....mi would change those way, way before 25k. Just my two cents. My various 92s are my main defense handguns. I don't want bad luck to strike one day...


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Shipwreck said:


> The recommended rate of change on the trigger return spring is every 5k by Beretta. Will it go past that before it breaks? Yes. But your one specimen that went, as you claimed, 25k is just that... One specimen. The springs can and do break way before that. I would venture to guess that one could probably get 10k rounds/10k trigger pulls out of the thing. But, changing it every 5k is a good idea... So it doesn't break at the wrong time. For every story like yours, there is one who had the spring break.
> 
> Also, changing the slide stop spring and trigger bar spring every once in a while is also a good idea. Plenty of reports of these breaking later in a guns life too....mi would change those way, way before 25k. Just my two cents. My various 92s are my main defense handguns. I don't want bad luck to strike one day...


Yep, went way too long on the spring changes and would not recommend it, but it's a fact. Never had any springs break on me(knock on wood) just going by my personal experience. Trigger return springs do not involve a lot of stress, always kept mine wet, don't know if that had anything to due w/ it's longevity? I still have it in a box somewhere. Another thought occurred to me, we all know the confirmed reliability track record of M9 specimens over the last 2 decades or so, and the fact Beretta is testing M9 specimens as we speak. With a means test of 17,500 rounds without a single malfunction or stoppage, and some test's reporting 22,500 etc., and the repetitive nature of these tests, I wonder if Beretta stops these reliability tests to change out the trigger return spring, or any spring for that matter?


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