# In stock today, A DAO with a decocker...



## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I have to check it out. Looks interesting.
Have to handle it first, been dissatisfied before after handling.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I had a Canik for two years, it ran fine for me.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

pic said:


> I have to check it out. Looks interesting.
> Have to handle it first, been dissatisfied before after handling.
> 
> View attachment 19608


My second handed CANIK knowledge says that the Turks built a decent pistol. My Brothers' is accurate and reliable so far. He paid $320.


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## red442joe (Aug 6, 2014)

Umm, if DAO, what does a decocker do?
Or is it DAO's and decocker (DA/SA) in stock?
The ad I see says Double/Single Action.

Joe


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

red442joe said:


> Umm, if DAO, what does a decocker do?
> Or is it DAO's and decocker (DA/SA) in stock?
> The ad I see says Double/Single Action.
> 
> Joe


I still don't get it ?
A decocker can put an m&p, vp9 style and Glock into a revolver type pull for the first shot if they had a decocker 
The Glock people will argue that the second movement of the action justifies the double action.
I can't figure it out, but it has me wanting to take a closer look


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

For a striker fired pistol I just don't understand the purpose of this design?


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm with you guys on not understanding. Is this a striker fired gun with some kind of mechanism that makes the first pull heavy?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I've never owned this type.
That's why I'm curious, Walther has one , the AS.
It's actually the desired carry piece of law enforcement, I think in Belgium, not sure.
It would be nice to hear from someone who actually owns one of these decocker types.
They get great reviews


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

pic said:


> I've never owned this type.
> That's why I'm curious, Walther has one , the AS.
> It's actually the desired carry piece of law enforcement, I think in Belgium, not sure.
> It would be nice to hear from someone who actually owns one of these decocker types.
> They get great reviews


Here is some good info:


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Usafammo3 said:


> I'm with you guys on not understanding. Is this a striker fired gun with some kind of mechanism that makes the first pull heavy?


Yeah, I think so which defeats the purpose of a striker fired gun. Not only that but I'm sure that there are more parts for more things to go wrong. Not that there's anything wrong with Canik pistols but I don't think that I'll be buying one of those anytime soon. They do make striker fired pistols without that feature. If I was in the market for a Canik I'd go for one of those instead. If it's got to be a DA/SA pistol I'd rather have one with a hammer. They're more of a tried and true design that's been around for decades, going on a hundred years or so. But I guess it's for those who want a striker fire pistol that want that option.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> I've never owned this type.
> That's why I'm curious, *Walther has one , the AS.
> It's actually the desired carry piece of law enforcement*, I think in Belgium, not sure.
> It would be nice to hear from someone who actually owns one of these decocker types.
> They get great reviews


Who knows that may have come about from some bureaucrat who has nothing better to do with their time. Kind of like what California requires firearms manufacturers to do in order to sell their firearms within that state. They have to be California compliant. Other than that I still don't understand the reasoning behind that particular design.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

This explains it. Actually, I really like the idea, whereas before the de-cocker rendered the pistol inoperable needing a re-rack to cock the striker.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Haven't held it yet ( canik ), gonna try tomorrow. 
Hoping that first trigger pull is heavy. 
NEW POCKET CARRY 
No Holster


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

That makes sense. I'm not big on striker fired guns but I can see how people who are would like this. I prefer a ds/sa pistol with an external hammer. Actually, I really have a hard time understanding why you would get this instead of a hammer fired gun. A hammer fired gun gives you all this and you can just look at it and know if it's in da or sa. Maybe this gun is aimed at youngsters who have never used a hammer fired gun and don't want something that "old fashioned" but want the functionality.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Usafammo3 said:


> That makes sense. I'm not big on striker fired guns but I can see how people who are would like this. I prefer a ds/sa pistol with an external hammer. Actually, I really have a hard time understanding why you would get this instead of a hammer fired gun. A hammer fired gun gives you all this and you can just look at it and know if it's in da or sa. Maybe this gun is aimed at youngsters who have never used a hammer fired gun and don't want something that "old fashioned" but want the functionality.


I prefer the da/sa mode myself, I prefer 1911's, bolt action rifles, pump action, lever action. 
I like the Glock tremendously after years of polymer avoidance. I've carried since 1981 CCW. 
I seen the first Glock emerge, I didn't care about the format, it was PLASTIC, LOL.
( avoidance). 
I've since become a Glock fan, but still don't trust the strikers ( just keep your finger off the trigger mentality) and you'll be ok,, with a chambered Glock as an every day carry. I see this format as an extreme measure in a lack of gun safety with an EDC ,, Murphy's law will bite you in the ass. 
It's plausible an safe to many. My personal preferences don't allow a chambered striker in single action mode. Like I said , it's my personal preference. I like the reliability, capacity, light weight, without all the protrusions. Smooth n sleek

When a decocker is introduced, they've been around, walther 99AS, I'm intrigued . 
I own da/sa hammer guns, it's, like I said , my preferred choice. 
A striker with a decocker is actually giving me my preferred format. 
I've been in a pocket carry mode on an off for almost forty years. 
I holstered my pockets,
currently, my preferred choice is unholstered, especially since the rail systems have changed. And I don't have to fumble around detaching the gun from the pocket holster, it sometimes turns into a two handed operation. 
I pocket carried a SS bulldog holstered for years, five shot 44spl. 
It gathered more lint and dust with the holster.


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

pic said:


> I prefer the da/sa mode myself, I prefer 1911's, bolt action rifles, pump action, lever action.
> I like the Glock tremendously after years of polymer avoidance. I've carried since 1981 CCW.
> I seen the first Glock emerge, I didn't care about the format, it was PLASTIC, LOL.
> ( avoidance).
> ...


I'm with you. I still occasionally get a little nervous thinking about a loaded striker fired gun pointing at my important parts but I still do it. I wont draw and reholster a striker fired gun at appendix unless it is a real emergency. I do it to practice while unloaded but that's it.


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## CatchySaver (Nov 21, 2017)

What are the pros and cons of having a DAO with decocker?


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

I prefer having a decocker but to give up the sweet SA pull makes about as much sense to me as Joe Biden made yesterday-none. I don't know why anyone would want a DAO pistol. As long as there is someone on YouTube telling people "this is the gun you should buy" people will buy it. I don't mean to offend anyone but I get so sick of people giving advice that makes no sense I almost want to start my own channel and review all those videos with the title "Why this is wrong". I don't claim to know everything and I'm actually happy when someone shows me I'm wrong and why. That being said, some of the advice given is at least wrong, at worst, downright dangerous and/or illegal. Be careful whose advice you take is my point. Didn't mean to rant...


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Usafammo3 said:


> I prefer having a decocker but to give up the sweet SA pull makes about as much sense to me as Joe Biden made yesterday-none. I don't know why anyone would want a DAO pistol. As long as there is someone on YouTube telling people "this is the gun you should buy" people will buy it. I don't mean to offend anyone but I get so sick of people giving advice that makes no sense I almost want to start my own channel and review all those videos with the title "Why this is wrong". I don't claim to know everything and I'm actually happy when someone shows me I'm wrong and why. That being said, some of the advice given is at least wrong, at worst, downright dangerous and/or illegal. Be careful whose advice you take is my point. Didn't mean to rant...


Just because you don't know why a DAO or DA trigger may be preferred doesn't mean that they are invalid, poor choices or "wrong" and it has nothing to do with the cranks on YouTube. 

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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

Why would one want a dao trigger? Not being sarcastic here. I really don't understand.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Usafammo3 said:


> I prefer having a decocker but to give up the sweet SA pull makes about as much sense to me as Joe Biden made yesterday-none. I don't know why anyone would want a DAO pistol. As long as there is someone on YouTube telling people "this is the gun you should buy" people will buy it. I don't mean to offend anyone but I get so sick of people giving advice that makes no sense I almost want to start my own channel and review all those videos with the title "Why this is wrong". I don't claim to know everything and I'm actually happy when someone shows me I'm wrong and why. That being said, some of the advice given is at least wrong, at worst, downright dangerous and/or illegal. Be careful whose advice you take is my point. Didn't mean to rant...


I have had and still own a couple external hammered da/sa handguns. A preferred format. 
When others describe this format, they describe it as* " your first pull will be a hard pull bringing the external hammer from a sitting position, and the rest of your shots will be in single action "

Why can't I cock the hammer and put myself in single action mode for the first shot? Maybe the hard first pull is about carrying safely an uncooked firearm,,,that's my priority , with an option to use the double action. 

People seem to describe the format as the first pull in double action is your priority pull . 
I will cock the hammer like a John browning Moses hi power and use the double action function as my secondary option, 
Thank you *


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Usafammo3 said:


> Why would one want a dao trigger? Not being sarcastic here. I really don't understand.


Some people forget how decockers work and end up holstering TDA autos with the hammer cocked.

The DA trigger has some major benefits and being DAO eases some admin handling issues.



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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

So the reason for DAO pistols is so untrained or careless people have less accidents? I was taught that there are no unsafe guns, only unsafe/untrained people. I've thought about this and the only reason I can come up with is to cut down on accidentally pulling the trigger under stress but that isn't an issue unless you are cocked..which is the whole point of da/sa-the long first pull is for safety. I guess I won't ever understand this DAO thing...


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Usafammo3 said:


> So the reason for DAO pistols is so untrained or careless people have less accidents? I was taught that there are no unsafe guns, only unsafe/untrained people. I've thought about this and the only reason I can come up with is to cut down on accidentally pulling the trigger under stress but that isn't an issue unless you are cocked..which is the whole point of da/sa-the long first pull is for safety. I guess I won't ever understand this DAO thing...


It's easy to paint everyone else as untrained. Even people with lots of training have accidents, regardless of what they've been taught.

A well set up DAO can be a thing of beauty.

One of the 1st pistols I was looking at buying was a Beretta 96D, and 17 years later I'm still kicking myself for not buying that gun. With the uptick in tuned 92s from Langdon, I know know of 3 pretty smart shooters that have LTT tuned DAO 92s and I'm having a really hard time not getting one.

One of the drawbacks of TDA autos is learning two trigger weights etc. The DAO provides the security of the heavier weight and longer travel but maintains consistent trigger manipulation like everyone likes about a SAO or hybrids like the Glock etal. And yes, removing the need to decock is a bonus.

Again, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's...whatever you think it is. 

I'm a really big fan of HK's LEM which is another hybrid but still considered DAO. 



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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

This is a pretty good article on some of the merrits of DAOish triggers.









Why I Like the LEM


As anyone who’s read PTC for a while knows, I’m a huge fan of the Heckler & Koch LEM (“Law Enforcement Module”) trigger system. So, apparently, is Darryl “nyeti&#8…




pistol-training.com






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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm really not trying to be a dick, I honestly am having trouble grasping this. I would say not touching the trigger unless you want to go bang is a pretty universal concept. Also, again, the first pull on a da/sa is, by definition, just as safe as a dao. If you don't want to accidentally discharge, don't have the hammer back. I'll read the article. I'm honestly not grasping what you're saying. I can come across as a prick so I just want to say again, No disrespect intended, man.


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

My thoughts after reading the article:
I understand the LEM trigger is technically a DAO but there is more going on there than just doing away with the SA pull. You have a consistent trigger pull but it is assisted with a spring so you don't get a heavy pull every time. If this is how all DAO triggers work, I get it and it's a good idea. Is this what's going on? The whole time we were having this conversation I was going on the idea that DAO means simply disabling the sa. No one ever said anything about the LEM trigger until the article.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> This is a pretty good article on some of the merrits of DAOish triggers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice article, 
I confess , my finger is always touching the trigger or inside the trigger guard. 
There were days I would just manipulate the trigger and hammer ( revolver ) for practice while watching tv. 
.We didn't trust the reliability on the semis like we trust them today. We wanted the gun to shoot , reliability was the priority.
If you had a semi auto, it was all hardball ammo (recommended), That's enough doubt on reliability. 
My colt govt 70 series, now i have a sig 1911 , cocked n locked ( very safe carry method ) *the visual of the cocked n locked will scare people*. I've drawn the 1911, no specific details, but my finger goes to the trigger, but my traditional safety stays on with my thumb on the safety ,, finger touching the trigger. 

If only they could see the VISUAL ON SOME OF THESE OTHER FORMATS ( that would be scary, lol )
I enjoyed the article, 
Btw I've never handled the LEM. 
I'm picturing the LEM action like a finely tuned Colt Python. 
I remember always handing over the python to my friends. FEEL THE ACTION !!! 
Like I said I've never handle an LEM yet


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

I've handled a lem. Its nice but not for me. I've dry fired a sig DAO. My reaction was "you know you can convert that to Da/sa, right?" The whole conversation I've been thinking of that sig. If vamarine has been referring to LEM and revolvers(good choices) but I've been thinking about the sig(makes no sense to me), the misunderstanding makes sense. If he has been referring to guns like the sig, I'm hopeless and I'll never get the need/desire for it. I never said my opinion should be shared by everyone. If someone feels safer with a gun that has no sa, go for it. Not for me.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Usafammo3 said:


> I've handled a lem. Its nice but not for me. I've dry fired a sig DAO. My reaction was "you know you can convert that to Da/sa, right?" The whole conversation I've been thinking of that sig. If vamarine has been referring to LEM and revolvers(good choices) but I've been thinking about the sig(makes no sense to me), the misunderstanding makes sense. If he has been referring to guns like the sig, I'm hopeless and I'll never get the need/desire for it. I never said my opinion should be shared by everyone. If someone feels safer with a gun that has no sa, go for it. Not for me.


Watched a few videos on the sig dak and the hk LEM, it almost reminds me of the Glock action. 
I don't think I can really suggest a perfect format. 
I can guarantee the format I'm carrying will be proficient. 
I wouldn't carry a firearm without knowing its capabilities. 
Beware of the guy who owns one handgun. 
Every handgun you CCW should be that one gun. 

I agree , if a format doesn't agree with you , PASS ON IT


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Usafammo3 said:


> Why would one want a dao trigger? Not being sarcastic here. I really don't understand.


Well, putting my personal preference aside, the Ruger LCP(which is a DOA in most models) is perhaps the most sold pistol ever. The S&W models 642 and 442 which are DOA pistols are likewise very popular. I assume the consistent trigger pull combined with a re-strike capability are some reasons for its popularity and that's just naming a few models


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

denner said:


> *(which is a DOA in most models)*


Dead on arrival? 😉


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

And no one was talking about traditional double action only until it was brought up by someone else. The original pistol in this thread is not a DAO hammer fired gun like a 92D, pre LEM V7 USP or DAO 3rd Gen Smith.

The big point here is that there are different flavors of DAO, and DA triggers can have benefit beyond the 1st trigger pull being thought of as a safety.

I'm not going to waste too much time going over this, it's OK not to like them.

*Assuming we're talking about carry and defensive use*

Some of the reasons people like them is that there is no need for extra admin handling processes after firing a shot and either having to holster or perform any other task with the gun in hand.

•Trigger checking is a thing.
•Startle response is a thing
•Involuntary hand cleneches are a thing
•Running a trigger faster than reaction time is a thing
•Task complexity is a thing.
•Prematurely breaking grip to work a decocker is a thing.
•Missing / forgetting the decocker resulting in a ND while going into the holster is a thing.


If you:
A: Don't know what any of these are
B: Think you're not susceptible to any of these
C: Don't fire 80% or more of your range ammo via the DA trigger press of your TDA pistol

You need more than me spelling this all out to correct what you don't know.

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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

pic said:


> Watched a few videos on the sig dak and the hk LEM, it almost reminds me of the Glock action.
> I don't think I can really suggest a perfect format.
> I can guarantee the format I'm carrying will be proficient.
> I wouldn't carry a firearm without knowing its capabilities.
> ...


I


denner said:


> Well, putting my personal preference aside, the Ruger LCP(which is a DOA in most models) is perhaps the most sold pistol ever. The S&W models 642 and 442 which are DOA pistols are likewise very popular. I assume the consistent trigger pull combined with a re-strike capability are some reasons for its popularity and that's just naming a few models


I have a LCP. Great little gun. I'm specifically referring to the idea of taking a larger gun which has a heavy long first pull and then subsequent light sa pulls and neutering it by doing away with the sa. The lem was brought up because someone else said "here is an article about the benefits of DAO" and all the article talked about was how great the LEM trigger is. Because of this, I thought it was a mixup between lem and dao.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Goldwing said:


> Dead on arrival? 😉








Ruger® LCP® Centerfire Pistol Models







ruger.com





My bad. There are no LCP's that are striker-fired, only DOA. There is the LC9(s) which is striker-fired.


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## Usafammo3 (Jun 8, 2020)

VAMarine said:


> And no one was talking about traditional double action only until it was brought up by someone else. The original pistol in this thread is not a DAO hammer fired gun like a 92D, pre LEM V7 USP or DAO 3rd Gen Smith.
> 
> The big point here is that there are different flavors of DAO, and DA triggers can have benefit beyond the 1st trigger pull being thought of as a safety.
> 
> ...


I understand none of these things. Maybe this is why I've shot myself in the leg 24 times, inadvertently discharge at least three times a week, and have to keep a stack of new holsters in my closet due to the fact that I constantly blow the bottoms out while reholstering without decocking. I will watch some more John Wick movies because this is where the majority of my experience and knowledge come from. All your big words and tactical terminology are no match for my gun-fu.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Usafammo3 said:


> I understand none of these things. Maybe this is why I've shot myself in the leg 24 times, inadvertently discharge at least three times a week, and have to keep a stack of new holsters in my closet due to the fact that I constantly blow the bottoms out while reholstering without decocking. I will watch some more John Wick movies because this is where the majority of my experience and knowledge come from. All your big words and tactical terminology are no match for my gun-fu.


There's probably more truth in this post than you intended. 

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