# Handgun Reloading ?



## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

I keep coming to the reloading section but there seems to be very little activity ...
Does anyone but myself load ? I got started in 1967 and started casting bullets soon after.
I have reloaded all manner of calibers from 32 acp to 45 Colt and cast for every one.
I don't have many questions , but if you are just starting the confusion on what to do and how to do it can be mind boggling . I always try to help the new guys when I can.
I'm a basic no frills reloader , who learned through books, reloading manuals , trial and error .
I mainly load on a single stage Pacific Super Deluxe "C" press and a Lyman AA turret .
I've got some knowledge to offer so if anyone has questions , post them and I'll try to help.
I'm no expert and don't have all the answers but maybe can help .
I've been reloading a lot of target 38 special , 357 magnum , 41 magnum , 45 acp and last year got my first 
9 mm Luger (WWII Walther P38) so working up 9mm loads for my pistol and 3 friends pistols. That has been an interesting experience testing many of the new powders on the market.

Usually on every site there are several who reload, have just started or want to and all have questions ,
OK Boys , Where Y'At !
Gary


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I've been reloading, for both rifle and pistol, since about 1954. I started out using a Lyman "tong tool" to make .30 US Army (.30-40 Krag) ammunition for my deer gun.
I never did much experimenting, since my later-life reloading was a money-saving effort while I competed in a sport that required the expenditure of several hundred practice rounds every week.

Once I found an appropriate pistol load, I stuck with that: .45 ACP, using both 200gr semi-wadcutters and 230gr round-nose, lead-alloy bullets, over six grains of WW231. Yes, I know that it's a little too "hot," and _I do not recommend it to you_, but it works perfectly in my pistols, and always makes "major caliber."
The same lack of experimentation is true of my rifle load: .30-'06, using 165gr flat-base soft-point bullets and IMR 4895.

I no longer compete, so nowadays I very rarely do any reloading.
I now carry factory-made pistol loads, exactly like those the police use.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

I'm also a long time reloader. I've loaded for most calibers, rifle, handgun, and shotgun I've owned. In the late 1960's and 1970's I was a student and new family man without much money. Like my pal Steve, I competed in various events and the only way I could practice and not totally destroy the family budget was to handload and do a lot of casting. When something was on sale, I'd often buy it even if I didn't yet have something chambered for it, like when I bought some cheap Herter's dies in .358 Winchester because they were $5.00. I even sized some .308 brass but never could scrape up the money for that Browning BLR I wanted so badly. 

However, I did buy a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved barreled bolt action mail order (You could in those days). I inletted, free floated and glass actioned a Fajen stock in AAA walnut and did all the rest. That was one beautiful gun and you couldn't buy factory ammo for it. A few years ago, I gave it to my son in law. He took a deer with it last fall. He doesn't handload, but I gave him several hundred rounds with the gun. That was probably the last reloading I've done. Like Steve, my hands have gotten weaker and arthritic. Though I still have my loading bench, I just look at it thinking maybe one day.

In handguns, I've loaded everything from 38 Special to 44 Magnum with a heavy emphasis on 45 ACP and 357 Magnum (reduced loads). With K-frame Smiths, I used to mainly load 38 Special brass, but switched to light 357 loads to reduce the leading from swaged wadcutters and semi-wadcutters. 

Anyway, I like watching threads on handloading so bring them on.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I've been thinking of convincing Jean (my wife) to switch from .380 ACP in a Kel-Tec, to .38 Special in a J-frame S&W revolver.
But to do that, I'd have to load-up some reverse-seated, hollow-base, lead, full wadcutter bullets at no more than 800fps.
And the problem is that I have neither dies nor supplies for .38 Special.

This late in our lives (I'm 80, she's 76), do I really want to buy a whole new set of reloading stuff?
I'm undecided, and Jean's answer is, "You do it, and I'll try it." But that doesn't help with the decision.

Advice, anyone?


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I've been thinking of convincing Jean (my wife) to switch from .380 ACP in a Kel-Tec, to .38 Special in a J-frame S&W revolver.
> But to do that, I'd have to load-up some reverse-seated, hollow-base, lead, full wadcutter bullets at no more than 800fps.
> And the problem is that I have neither dies nor supplies for .38 Special.
> 
> ...


Steve, I don't think you need to jump into reloading right away to try this. At Cheaper Than Dirt just now, I counted almost 50 offerings in factory ammo at between 640 fps and 800 fps. There was Fiocchi 148 grain hollow points at 750 fps which might work well. I've also seen subsonic ammo which would probably fit the bill.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/category/ammunition/handgun.do?c=117336.117340&caliber=.38+Special&feet_per_second=750&bullet_type=Hollow+Point&pp=30&sortby=priceAscend&cx=0


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Craigh said:


> ...At Cheaper Than Dirt just now, I counted almost 50 offerings in factory ammo at between 640 fps and 800 fps. There was Fiocchi 148 grain hollow points at 750 fps which might work well...


I looked.
It's a good suggestion.
Thank you!


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

Just started reloading about 8 months ago. Mainly to reload 6.5 creedmore . I have a rockchucker single stage press. My biggest problem has been finding the ingredients my gun likes. H4350 was hard to find for awhile, now berger 140 gn vld's are back ordered everywhere. I loaded up 200 rds. this weekend not with bergers but ELD's ( second choice). I also started reloading .44 mag, .357 mag, 45 ACP, and 9mm. It has been a big investment in equipment but I really enjoy reloading. I have a rcbs charge master lite which really speeds up the process for rifle reloading. I got Lee 4 die sets for handgun loads with a lee auto disk. I was fortunate to have friend who reloads and helped answer some questions and steer me in the right direction. I am thinking of investing in a progressive reloader for handgun loads but I do pretty good with my rock chucker.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

It looks like with just Myself, Steve and Craigh there's at least 150 years of reloading experience to share!
Thanks Guys.

Rusty, component shortages is something we all suffer from . My answer is to buy it when I can ....I have become a hoarder by necessity not choice. I buy powder and primers every time spotted on a dealers shelf. I cast my own bullets to solve the bullet problem. I have several moulds for every firearm owned and have scrounged buckets of wheel weights and lead ...I can make all the bullets I want and that's a really good feeling .
I've adapted loads so as to be able to utilize any and every powder and brand of primer I can get my hands on.
Since I'm mainly a handgun reloader and shooter , cast bullets can be used very sucessfully.
I'll never forget the time I went into my friends gun shop and he had little ammo and absolutely NO bullets, powders or primers for sale.....he didn't even have any Lee bullet moulds. The political climate had changed and everything he had in stock bought up....he had little to sell for a very long time . That's when I realized I needed to stock up, hoard and make my own bullets. Cast bullets in my rifles keeps me shooting those.
Glad to have another reloader.
Gary


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

rustygun said:


> I do pretty good with my rock chucker.


I'm with you. I've always enjoyed RCBS presses. I'm not sure which model Rock Chucker I have but it's an early one. I also had a standard RCBS single stage which served me very well when I had just started. They are steady and reliable as well as easy to use. I also tend to buy RCBS dies and other gear. For handguns, I used to have a used CH Pistol Champ electric progressive press. It was fast and excellent, but no longer made. I can't even find a used one online. My current progressive press is a Dillon which is also excellent but pricey.


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## Indigowolf (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm just getting ready to get back into reloading. My son had my reloading equipment stored away for me. He had planned to set it up and try his hand at it but work and family came first. I had previously reloaded 44-40, 44Spl, and 44Mag. My plans are to start reloading for my new to me .357Mag. I started looking for carbide dies and supplies last week.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Dillon presses may seem expensive, but they're very easy to use, extremely efficient, and almost indestructible.
Although mine is quite old, dating from about 1980, I still use it for both .45 ACP and .30-'06, and it still delivers the goods.
(I decap and full-length-resize the .30-'06 on a separate, single-stage press.)

I have to remove-and-replace the die sets, and the powder measure too, to change from .45 ACP to .30-'06.
But it doesn't take very long, because everything holds its adjustment.
I just screw 'em out, and screw 'em in.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

I use a Lyman Orange Crusher single stage press. I wore out my first non progressive turret press. I'm not in a hurry and am too much of a perfectionist to go progressive. Also when loading 357 and 44 mag max loads I've found that out of 100 cases a few will need to be trimmed from time to time.

For years I loaded a Lot for the 380 auto. I only remember finding one that was over max length, I pitched it. I 'upgraded' to 9mm a few years ago for EDC and have yet to find any nines that need to be trimmed. Most seem to be under the trim to length so I _could_ deal with a progressive press for those calibers but, I'm in no hurry so...

The Orange Crusher works great for re-forming 30-06 to 25-06, plenty strong. My first press, the inexpensive turret, was a little weak for re-forming brass but made for a good starter press. I believe the Crusher will out last me.



Indigowolf said:


> I' My plans are to start reloading for my new to me .357Mag. I started looking for carbide dies and supplies last week.


Way back when I started reloading a friend used and recommended Lyman so most of my equipment is still Lyman. Lyman calls their carbide dies tungsten carbide. Fancy huh.

I really went crazy with loading 357's. At one time I had about FIFTEEN different 357 loads worked out with 50 yd sight setting notes for all of them and for the four revolvers that I had at the time.

One thing about the 357, ANY type of bullet you can dream up... somebody is making it. (Kinda like the small block Chevy of calibers). Any of you old time "Hot Rod" guys will understand what I'm saying.

BTW, Hodgdon H110 is a real 'Kick Butt' powder for 357 loads, 44 mag too.

Sam


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

The thing I like about 38 special/ 357 Magnum is the vast array of bullet moulds that have been made over the years.
I'm sort of a 38/357 mould junkie, I buy them new and used and have 30 different moulds from 110 grs to 170 grains .
Having been a NRA Bullseye Target shooter for nearly two decades , I have a 38 Bullseye revolver built by Jim Clark and have searched long and hard for the magical bullet-powder-primer combination that will give one hole groups (haven't found any magical loads yet , still looking). My first SA revolver (purchased new in 1970)was a Ruger Blackhawk 357 Magnum so a lot of reloading development was done for it over the years . 
Gary


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## Indigowolf (Apr 9, 2015)

I think I have a fairly good starting kit to get back into this.
Digging through the box of reloading goods I found
Lee press
RCBS hand primer tool
My notebook that I wrote all the recipes in.
3 partial containers of powder... Unique, W231, Vihtavori-??? .
a buttload of 44mag and 44spl brass all boxed and numbered to identify how many times it had been reloaded.
a hand full of lead bullets for 44
reloading manual
a full box of CCI Magnum large pistol primers.
full set of powder scoops
bottle of case lube
funnel
measuring cup/jar with lid

I'll need to farm out the 44 stuff and the LG primers and replace with .357 goods.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Indigowolf said:


> ...full set of powder scoops...funnel
> measuring cup/jar with lid


I suggest that when loading for .44 Magnum, a good-quality powder measure, and maybe also a scale with which to occasionally run a weight check, is both much safer and much more accurate than mere scoops.
For that matter, I'd use a powder measure and scale for .44 Special, too. Or .357 Magnum.


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## Indigowolf (Apr 9, 2015)

My LGS has a section where they sell used reloading equipment. I found they had a 3 piece set of non carbide .357/38 dies. I tucked them down at the bottom of the pile and will review the need for them if need arises. I know the carbide dies helped big time when I was reloading the 44's.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Indigowolf said:


> My LGS has a section where they sell used reloading equipment. I found they had a 3 piece set of non carbide .357/38 dies. I tucked them down at the bottom of the pile and will review the need for them if need arises. I know the carbide dies helped big time when I was reloading the 44's.


I'll tell you. When loading bottle necked rifle ammo, I've never heard of full length carbide dies.

With handgun cartridges, I wouldn't use a non-carbide sizing die if it was free, much less pay for them. Heck, you couldn't pay me to use standard dies.  So many years ago. after buying my first carbide die in 45 ACP, I told myself I'd never use anything else. That alone was probably the best loading decision I have ever made. Everyone I've met over the past 30 plus years uses carbide sizing dies on straight walled cases.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

Never get rid of reloading stuff....you never know what the future brings, and you just might need them when a son, daughter, grand child , son/daughter in law comes up with a 44 they need help reloading.
My daddy advised if they were paid for keep them " they ain't eating any hay " was how he put it. 
Selling old reloading dies will not get you very much money ...the cost for new dies, should you need them , just keeps going up and up . 

I actually don't mind steel dies , even with carbide dies a spray of case lube makes resizing so much easier so a steel die is no big deal in truth . I found a set of unused 41 magnum steel Bonanza co-ax dies on Ebay that no one bothered to bid on, I got them for $6.99. In 1970 they sold for $16.50. A comparable steel set from Redding is $61.00 .
Don't pass up a steel die set if the price is right ....they can can still be quite useful .
Gary


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Craigh said:


> ...When loading bottle necked rifle ammo, I've never heard of full length carbide dies...


They exist.
I've used one for .30-'06.
They're damnedly expensive.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

Indigowolf said:


> My LGS has a section where they sell used reloading equipment. I found they had a 3 piece set of non carbide .357/38 dies. I tucked them down at the bottom of the pile and will review the need for them if need arises. I know the carbide dies helped big time when I was reloading the 44's.


I'm with Craigh about those non carbide dies although I did stumble across a use for some old CH 380 steel dies when a Beretta 380 was in my carry rotation.
The CH non carbide die sized the case to a slightly smaller O.D. (at the neck area) than two different carbide dies would providing a tighter grip on the bullet. 
My Beretta M 84 had an abnormally long 'free bore' which allowed seating Sierra's short little 90 gr JHP out much, much further than would be possible in most guns.
The result was greatly increased powder capacity and a bullet that, along with a crimp, would stay put ... all without excessive pressure sign. 
Using that short bullet the COAL could still be short enough so that internal magazine space wasn't a concern.

This was back when a quality chronograph would cost you about the same money as a used car so of course I didn't have one.

Having been a long time since I'd fired any 380 factory ammo and shooting 44 mag's regularly I didn't notice the extra (excessive) recoil in that little 380.
One day I recovered a fired bullet from a sand trap only to discover a VERY expanded (splattered) 90 gr JHP. (Back then 380 HP bullets expanded very little if at all). Then I fired my loads side by side with factory loads. Oops, I was hammering the heck out of that alloy frame but they functioned so I loaded 14 for carry loads and luckily never needed them.
After that gun was gone I disassembled my "M 84 only" carry ammo...

Sam


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## Argon18smith (Nov 4, 2016)

I started reloading for rifle a few years back on a single stage RCBS - 308, 303 British, 7mm mag, 270, 30-30 and 30-06. It wasn't until recently that I started reloading for handgun - 9mm, 38spl, 357 mag and now my 460. I am well past 25,000 reloads using a Lee pro1000. I made sure I threw out the receipts for all of the purchases I made, prices are scary stuff. Learning as I go along and very few problems anymore. The 460 had me wondering for a while as I struggled to get rid of bullet jump but I have that in the bag now. Starting to use X-metal projectiles in the 460 and getting good results. Tried plated projectiles but once you added lots of powder the plating would rupture and the cost of jacketed projectiles is very high for just plinking. I enjoy reloading and will keep at it. I am actually thinking of returning to reloading for rifle.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Argon18smith said:


> ...I made sure I threw out the receipts for all of the purchases I made...


Please explain why.


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## Argon18smith (Nov 4, 2016)

Steve, I don't want to know how much money I have actually spent on reloading components - a truck or cars worth me thinks.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Therefore it seems obvious that your reloading-equipment purchases are not a deductible business expense. :anim_lol:


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I've hand loaded my own ammo, off and on, since 1972. I 've gone through 'spells' where I loaded rifles only, hand guns only, or both, according to what my main interest was at the time. During the recent handgun ammo shortages, I even loaded carry ammo, because I couldn't find what I wanted on the shelves. These days, I mostly only hand load rifles, because I have always hunted, and I like ammo that I can hit small targets with on the first cold bore shot, out to about 300 yards. Factory ammo is well capable of that, if you can find the right one for your particular rifle, but hand loading allows you to more easily experiment with powder charge and bullet size, type, weight. So, it makes more sense to me. I have at least four rifles that have never chambered a factory load, and others that have, only because people would give them to me when they have gotten rid of the rifle that would shoot them.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Bisley said:


> These days, I mostly only hand load rifles, because I have always hunted, and I like ammo that I can hit small targets with on the first cold bore shot, out to about 300 yards. Factory ammo is well capable of that, if you can find the right one for your particular rifle, but hand loading allows you to more easily experiment with powder charge and bullet size, type, weight.


I'm with you my friend. For me, loading rifle and testing them, was much of the fun. I really enjoyed experimenting with various combinations of projectile, brass, powder, etc. A lot of folks don't understand how just moving from one brand of brass to another can make a huge difference in how precisely a particular rifle shoots. I really used to enjoy coming home after work and taking several evenings after the kids bedded down to create a set of various loads in order to go to an outdoor range Saturday morning to shoot groups and comparing them with my used spotting scope. I'd have my log book there and entered in the group size for each load, maybe working my way up just considering powder. You'd watch the groups tightening, then spreading again, noting the exact combination that rifle liked. As I say, for me, that was one of the most fun parts of the hobby in those days. Sometimes, I even enjoyed the cooling and swabbing of the barrel between rounds to remove that variable. It just made for a peaceful and fun Saturday morning away from the rest of the world. Sometimes another shooter would come over to ask what I was doing so slowly and methodically, which would result in some pleasant chat time with a fellow shooter who might be there to zero his rifle before hunting season.

This was back in the days when most hunters never bothered to glass the action and free-float their barrels. Other shooters were often amazed by your dime sized groups at 100 yards when you'd just found that perfect combination for that particular rifle. I was lucky in that I could always get there eventually. I know it's common for many rifles to come with barrels that may have been at the bottom of a pallet of barrels at the factory and had some aberration making it impossible to ever become MOA. Just luck of the draw, I suppose. I know you don't need half minute to one minute accuracy, but that was the fun part and gave me a feeling of accomplishing something special on those warm Spring mornings long ago. Sometimes my old yellow lab, Katie, would be lying down far enough behind me in the shade so her hearing wouldn't suffer. She loved to come.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

What's scary is looking at the old prices compared to what they are today.
I'm sitting here looking at a can of Alcan AL-5 powder , purchased in early 1970's....
The price tag....drum roll please.....$2.00 , true it's only an 8 oz. can but I had bout two !
Where can you get one pond of pistol powder for $4.00 !

Three weeks ago I bought a pound of Unique ....$27.99 . It may seem scary now but in twenty years that might seem like dirt cheap.....inflation and hoarding may have powder at $200.00 a pound.
You may want to keep those receipts !
Gary


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

In 1970, the dollar was worth seven times what it's worth now.
What one dollar could purchase then costs seven dollars now.

Thus, $4.00 of the 1970s equals about $28.00 of the 2010s.
That pound of Unique is costing you just as many hours of work today as it did in 1970.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Craigh said:


> I'm with you my friend. For me, loading rifle and testing them, was much of the fun. I really enjoyed experimenting with various combinations of projectile, brass, powder, etc. A lot of folks don't understand how just moving from one brand of brass to another can make a huge difference in how precisely a particular rifle shoots. I really used to enjoy coming home after work and taking several evenings after the kids bedded down to create a set of various loads in order to go to an outdoor range Saturday morning to shoot groups and comparing them with my used spotting scope. I'd have my log book there and entered in the group size for each load, maybe working my way up just considering powder. You'd watch the groups tightening, then spreading again, noting the exact combination that rifle liked. As I say, for me, that was one of the most fun parts of the hobby in those days. Sometimes, I even enjoyed the cooling and swabbing of the barrel between rounds to remove that variable. It just made for a peaceful and fun Saturday morning away from the rest of the world. Sometimes another shooter would come over to ask what I was doing so slowly and methodically, which would result in some pleasant chat time with a fellow shooter who might be there to zero his rifle before hunting season.
> 
> This was back in the days when most hunters never bothered to glass the action and free-float their barrels. Other shooters were often amazed by your dime sized groups at 100 yards when you'd just found that perfect combination for that particular rifle. I was lucky in that I could always get there eventually. I know it's common for many rifles to come with barrels that may have been at the bottom of a pallet of barrels at the factory and had some aberration making it impossible to ever become MOA. Just luck of the draw, I suppose. I know you don't need half minute to one minute accuracy, but that was the fun part and gave me a feeling of accomplishing something special on those warm Spring mornings long ago. Sometimes my old yellow lab, Katie, would be lying down far enough behind me in the shade so her hearing wouldn't suffer. She loved to come.


I don't obsess on absolute maximum precision, as a bench rest shooter would, but I will spend a lot of time to get in the neighborhood of 1/2 MOA. I have been able to do this with pretty basic factory rifles, by tweaking the load, free-floating the barrel and most important of all (in my personal experience) upgrading the trigger. I test from a 'field rest,' rather than a rock solid bench rest, front and rear, so I rarely get to same hole or cloverleaf accuracy. A bag, bipod, or a cheap mechanical front rest in front, and my balled fist under the end of the stock is as far as I go usually. Ironically, the rifle that shoots the worst groups (~1 MOA) is my 1964 Model 70 .30-06, and is the one I have been most successful with. I have never needed a second shot with it. My other rifles hover around 0.5 MOA, but I tend to reach around them to get the old push-feed Model 70, even when most of my pre-season practice has been with the others.

I bought the Model 70 at a gun show, about 10-12 years ago. It had been somebody's safe queen for 40 years, probably because somebody convinced the owner that only 'pre '64' Model 70's were good (big assumption, there, I know). I tried about a hundred combinations trying to get to 1/2 MOA, but could only get to 1 MOA. Anyway, my shoulder was black and blue for a couple months from doing so many three shot groups with 125 gr. to 168 grain maximum loads. It liked heavy bullets at high speed. I could have probably found a 180 grain load that would have done better, but I couldn't bear the thought of subjecting my battered shoulder to all of the possible combinations, in 180 grain.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

gwpercle said:


> I'm sitting here looking at a can of Alcan AL-5 powder


Hey Gary. I used to love AL-5 as one of my favorite defensive powders. I developed a number of various recipes for short barreled handguns for night use. For example, in 38 Special/357 Magnum, I used an inverted 148 grain hollow based wadcutter and AL-5. I no longer remember what charge I worked to but it was a fairly light load. The point was to minimize muzzle flash yet still be an effective stopper. I didn't log accuracy nor velocity while I was working it up. Just muzzle flash. I also worked up a low flash load for my Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog. I really don't know if any of them had stopping power, and I'm sure they were all subsonic. The point was to get that flash to be a soft red glow. I tried lots of powders and AL-5 seemed to work the best in this regard.

With that Bulldog, I felt the larger 43 caliber bullet might make up for the light load. I don't know, though. I didn't think that wadcutter was expanding at all in those 35 caliber 38 Special handguns.



Bisley said:


> Ironically, the rifle that shoots the worst groups (~1 MOA) is my 1964 Model 70


Half minute is great, but I was pleased as punch to get one MOA out of most rifles, especially if it maintained it out to maybe 300 yards. The one of two guns which I worked up to dime size holes at 100 yards was a beautiful Ruger M77 in .270 Winchester. It was a true tac driver when I used Western brass but crazy as it seems. darn near 2 inch groups the best it would do with Remington brass. Go figure. I guess it didn't like green boxes. I don't think I've ever gotten a rifle to shoot so tight and so consistently as that rifle, except one other rifle.

I bought a Remington 700 BDL in 243 used from a pawn shop in Minneapolis years ago. I think I paid $20-$40 for it. I was poor at the time and in grad school. My best buddy in Florida was also in grad school and wanted a rifle like my Sako Forester in 243. So, I decided to build him something. That pawn shop M-700 was so cheap because it was in terrible shape. It had rust and a previous owner had painted all the metal with royal blue paint with a paint brush and right over the rust. The stock was scratched and painted in a similar manner with olive paint. Duct tape was liberally applied because it was missing the bolt to go in the lug. The inside of the barrel was surprisingly pristine and had no pitting or rust. The bolt and trigger as well as all internals were in good order. It took me over a year to build a rifle based on this pawn shop special. I installed and sighted an inexpensive Simmons 3x9 scope on it as it was all I could afford. I then handloaded it to give me ragged holes at 100 yards. Even with factory Winchester ammo, I could get 3/4 Minute out of that gun. Simply amazing. It was beautiful too in the end. I gave it to him as a Christmas gift at our annual family/friends New Year's week long hunt at the family ranch. He shot a turkey through the neck with it that trip and still has it to this day though I think he put a better Leupold 2x8 scope on it.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> In 1970, the dollar was worth seven times what it's worth now.
> What one dollar could purchase then costs seven dollars now.
> 
> Thus, $4.00 of the 1970s equals about $28.00 of the 2010s.
> That pound of Unique is costing you just as many hours of work today as it did in 1970.


Yes , that is very true. I brought home $75.00 a week , after taxes , back then .
No mater how much things seem to change ...they seem to always remain the same !
I was dirt poor then and still seem to be dirt poor....nothings changed except my getting older .
As my mamma would tell me ....C'est La Vie (such is life)
Gary


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

Craigh said:


> Hey Gary. I used to love AL-5 as one of my favorite defensive powders. I developed a number of various recipes for short barreled handguns for night use. For example, in 38 Special/357 Magnum, I used an inverted 148 grain hollow based wadcutter and AL-5. I no longer remember what charge I worked to but it was a fairly light load. The point was to minimize muzzle flash yet still be an effective stopper. I didn't log accuracy nor velocity while I was working it up. Just muzzle flash. I also worked up a low flash load for my Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog. I really don't know if any of them had stopping power, and I'm sure they were all subsonic. The point was to get that flash to be a soft red glow. I tried lots of powders and AL-5 seemed to work the best in this regard.
> 
> With that Bulldog, I felt the larger 43 caliber bullet might make up for the light load. I don't know, though. I didn't think that wadcutter was expanding at all in those 35 caliber 38 Special handguns.
> 
> ...


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## J. R. Weems (Mar 13, 2011)

gwpercle said:


> What's scary is looking at the old prices compared to what they are today.
> I'm sitting here looking at a can of Alcan AL-5 powder , purchased in early 1970's....
> The price tag....drum roll please.....$2.00 , true it's only an 8 oz. can but I had bout two !
> Where can you get one pond of pistol powder for $4.00 !
> ...


I hear ya!!
Number of years ago when looking at retirement I updated just about everything, presses, dies, pretty much switched from Lee to Redding here as well as my presses. Knowing income might be a bit less, and it was easy to see where the political climate was headed,, i increase all my magazines, and always picked up something at guns shows, buying in bulk when ever I could. When the .22LR crunch raised its ugly head, I never had to worry.  On top of all this, I lucked in to some free once fired brass, and I mean BUCKETS full, all I had to do was clean it up. All this is standing me in good stead now and will as long as I am around. I could care less what idiot laws they pass. of recent I acquired a I frame S&W in 38 S&W, something I never worked with, Three weeks later I can load up what ever I need for it, including shot shells.  so it goes. I never did learn to cast but I save enough not to worry about it. Just $22.50 a box saved on the 38S&W alone. Almost $40.00 a box on large calibers like 44 mags. Latest venture has been the making of shot shells, just because I can.  here is just a test on my first 38S&W shot shells and things have improved just since I took these. 



















I have always enjoyed all this, and even enjoy my gun cleaning.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

Those 38 S&W shot loads are darn effective.
And just try to buy factory 38 S&W Shot Loads...you gonna be looking long and hard to find them at any cost.
What do you use to form the crimp with...they look good and don't seem to affect the shot pattern.
Gary


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I made some hot .38 Special shot loads for wounded birds, when dove or quail hunting. It is inevitable that some wing shots don't kill, and in prairie country, they can lead you on a merry chase through mesquite and other thorny plants. You do not want to use a 12 gauge to finish them, and old fat guys can't catch them, in rough country.

My shot loads consisted of standard .38 Special cases and primers, using 5 grains of Unique. I made cardboard 'wads' by sharpening up the edge on a .38 case and chucking it up in a drill press, then pressing the little circles out of thin cardboard. I placed one between the powder and the number 6 shot, filled the rest of the case with shot, then capped it off with another cardboard disk, and used a Lee neck crimping die to crimp the cardboard in place. I then put a little dab of hot glue on it, to seal it off.

They work great at 5-10 feet, out of a snub-nose, and are easily powerful enough to kill a wounded bird


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