# Help! I need help deciding what 380 to purchase.



## HCSO279

I am planning to purchase a 380 soon (maybe later today). I am torn and need help deciding which 380 to purchase. I have owned a LCP in the past...that is out for sure. I did not like the cheap feeling of the gun and I had a fair amount on misfires with the gun. This would also eliminate the Kel-tec; it feels like the same gun. I have recently shot the Bodyguard and the Kahr, with the Kahr being my favorite of the two. I was unimpressed by the trigger pull of the SW and I had 8 malfunctions in 50 rounds (granted I was using a rented range gun). The laser was a pain to engage (that one actually didn't work) and the black sights are hard to pick up quick. Granted, the odds of having to use the sights for my purpose is slim. The Kahr performed well and I was fond of the trigger and sights. The Kahr is slightly thicker though. I was also just shown the Sig P238...I kind of fell in love with it, the look of it any way. I have not shot it yet, but it felt good in my hands. My only concern is the SAO, I am unfamiliar with this version of Firearm, and am a bit reluctant to purchase this gun. 

I will be using this gun as a concealed carry gun and possibly as a backup gun. Please tell me your thoughts; I will listen to any opinion. Also, I'd like to hear carry option opinions. What holster/where?

Thanks


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## denner

You already answered your own question and I agree with your reasoning fully, although you might want reassurance. Kahr. The Sig P238 is an excellent firearm, however, a tiny cocked and locked pistol for everyday concealed carry would be the only reservation against the P238 that I would have but to each their own, especially if you are unfamiliar with the 1911 platform.


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## Steve M1911A1

Since you are already certain that the Kel-Tec P3AT is the same as the Ruger LCP, and since you have already experienced misfires, not to mention the "cheap feeling," you wouldn't want to read my suggestions anyway.

But, of course, that has never stopped me before. So why would I let it stop me now?

First of all, a laser is a neat gimmick, but it is not a whole lot of help in self-defense shooting. I suggest that it's a gimmick that you don't really need. Some people find the laser a worthwhile learning and practicing tool, but on a defensive weapon it's more a liability than an asset.
Second, I suggest that, yes, you do indeed need to use your pistol's sights whenever possible. However, you also need to learn to use your pistol "instinctively," without recourse to sights, because that's how you shoot in low-light conditions.
Third, a black-colored rear sight is exactly what is required. You might consider painting your front sight red or orange, to help you see it quickly under marginal conditions, but in low light everything will be black anyway.
And last, I bet that your disappointment with the LCP was more a matter of your own technique than it was of the gun's failings, or that you hadn't allowed the pistol to break itself in, which takes at least 100 rounds in most cases (or a polish job). Further, although the Kel-Tec P3AT is very similar to the LCP, it is not the same, and "cheap feeling" does not necessarily indicate poor performance.

A single-action semi-auto must be carried in a holster which covers its trigger completely and which _immobilizes its safety lever_. In my way of thinking, this removes the SIG P238 from the realm of "pocket gun." That may keep it from becoming your backup.
A double-action-only semi-auto usually has no safety to immobilize. Given a decent holster, such pistols make good pocket guns.

In any case, small pistols are very difficult to shoot well. Essentially, they are experts' guns.
To use a pocket-size pistol effectively, you must put in a lot of slow, careful practice, both shooting and presenting it.
Are you an expert? Do you practice?


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## HCSO279

Steve, you make very good points and I agree with you on a lot of it. I feel I may have struck a nerve with the Kel-tec. Perhaps I have prematurely discounted the Kel-tec, but I really do not like the feel of it. I do practice on my primary firearm very frequently, however I do not consider myself an expert. I do believe in becoming proficient in any firearm that I intend on carrying.


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## coopercdrkey

Although I "voted" for the Sig P238, I agree that anyone unfamiliar with the 1911-type, SAO manual of arms should be very cautious when considering this pistol. If you feel the need for rapid deployment, your carry option is pretty much "cocked and locked", which is kind of scary to me.

I might add a plug for the Bersa .380's. They can be carried De-cocked, safety off, requiring an initial DA trigger pull. That should be pretty safe in a good holster. Subsequent rounds are fired SA.

Just my $.02......


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## Cat

If I was you,I would find a store that rents pistols. Then test them out,To see what works best for you.


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## recoilguy

I am not one to shy away from offering my opinion on certian matters either, even when they run contrary to those whose opinion I frequently respect and agree with. So in this case I will offer mine as well.

You have not prematurely discounted Kel Tec, it was a wise decision. Just because some one types with certain flair and aire of confidence does not make their opinion note worthy. Case in point, this post, it is my opinion and I am offering it to be taken or dismissed at your discretion. Kel Tecs are exactly what they appear to be, cheap poorly made weapons that do however in fact fire the first time you pull the trigger on a mag, most of the time. They are uncomfortable to hold and even more uncomfortable to shot. If Diamondback had not come into being they would stand alone as the worse little weapon made in Florida. Lasers are not a gimmick although the can be mistakenly used a tool that instill false confidence and should never be used as a substitute for real and consistant practice. Because people use a tool incorrectly or do not take time to understand the value of said tool does not make it a gimmick. I will also advice practice with which ever gun you decide to arm yourself. Practice is more then just standing on a line at 7 yards and trying to consistantly hit a spot on a plate.

Enjoy what ever you get, practice with it and always be safe!

RCG


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## cclaxton

I voted OTHER. However, any of the three you listed would be fine, and I would prefer the Kahr out of those three.
But, if you are looking for a good .380 for CC, I would look at the Cz-83 before making a final decision. It holds has an excellent trigger, 12 rounds, and has a longer barrel, is full SA/DA and mag release and manual safety. You can run it cocked and locked or decocked. The recoil is very easily managed because of the 28oz weight. 

Another one to consider is the Bersa Thunder380CC....alloy frame, 7+1 rounds, excellent trigger, slim width, small size overall, lightweight, accurate, excellent sights, and inexpensive. The same design as a Walther PPK, which is another one to consider although I don't like the weight of the Walther. But it is a great carry gun as well. 

I don't like the Beretta 380's due to weight and the mag release is not on the grip, but at the bottom of the mag. The P238 is nice, but like other have said, you really need to holster it properly to carry it. That precludes pocket carry unless you use a pocket holster. Also, the Sig is a lot of money for a .380.

Check out USAammo.com for inexpensive .380 target ammo. I recommend the MagTech HollowPoints as a good value for self-defense ammo. Also, the Winchester Ranger T-Series and Hornady XTP are great but pricier. 

I also own a Bodyguard .380 and it is perfect to keep between the mattress and boxspring for the girlfriend, and easy to carry in the summer when I can't really conceal my Kahr PM9, my primary carry.

If you can handle the size and weight of the Cz, I would go for that, but if you want lighter and smaller, the Kahr is your best choice, and if pocket carry then the bodyguard .380. 
CC 
CC


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## E46SC3

Just picked up my P238 Blackwood last night ... I'm so happy with it, I can't wait to shoot it. I also picked up a couple of the extended 7 shot magazines and not only does it look good, but it feels even better too.

The Kahr would have been my second choice ...


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## Sawmilljack

I voted other because I hate .380's . I love Kahr pistols even though I have to agree with Steve about pocket pistols being hard to use. It seems to me there isn't all that much difference in size between 
the Kahr .380 and their full 9mm. Why would you want to buy the .380 instead? Just curious.


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## Steve M1911A1

recoilguy said:


> I am not one to shy away from offering my opinion on certian matters either, even when they run contrary to those whose opinion I frequently respect and agree with...


Eeeek! :goofy:

:smt023


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

recoilguy said:


> I am not one to shy away from offering my opinion on certian matters either, even when they run contrary to those whose opinion I frequently respect and agree with.


many opinions here i agree with, many i dont, but i respect the opinions of all who post IF their opinion is based on thought, research, fact and even personal experience.

i have very little use for the opinion of some when its based on bias (for or against), the posts of others, "what if scenarios" and junk science.

a few other posters that i respect most here i have HUGE issues with some of their fav weapons.... and out of that respect i remain silent. others, not so silent.

with respect, rcg.... opine , opine, opine!


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## HCSO279

*Got One! (or two)*

I have purchased the Sig P238 *and* the Kahr P380. I am probably dumb for buying two, but I couldn't decide. The Kahr is on a platform that I am more comfortable and well versed in. The Sig, being an SAO, is something that I will practice, until I am proficient, before I carry. Let me know what you think, but please be nice. I took all of your opinions to heart and really bought what I felt the best about.

Thanks Everyone!


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## Steve M1911A1

HCSO279 said:


> Steve...I feel I may have struck a nerve with the Kel-tec...


Not at all. I have no stock in the company, or anything like that. But I don't like to see something disparaged for other than practical reasons.

My wife, Jean, likes her P3AT because it's really easy to hide, and very safe to carry fully loaded. It has proven itself to be completely reliable, including through lots of live-fire practice. _In her small hands_, it is almost the perfect pistol.
I freely admit that, upon arrival in our home, her Kel-Tec needed a ramp-and-chamber polish job, which I immediately gave it. It also needed some sort of covering around its grip, to reduce the unpleasant effects of very sharp, molded-in checkering. But I don't consider these jobs drawbacks, since I have never owned a new pistol that didn't need some gunsmithing to make it truly, functionally practical.

In my years of practical shooting, I have frequently found that people's complaints about pistol functioning were more often the fault of poor shooting technique, and less often the result of a gun defect. This has been especially true of mini-pistols, which are very hard to control, and frequently also very unpleasant to shoot.
Thus, I questioned your opinion of the LCP and, by extension, your evaluation of the P3AT that you admit never having fired.

I wish you good luck with your two new pistols.
I suggest that if you switch between the two different trigger mechanisms, you will find that learning to shoot them both accurately and effectively will be more difficult than it otherwise might. Thus, I suggest that you pick one of them and learn to shoot it as well as you possibly can, before ever trying to work with the other one.


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## HCSO279

Ok, I have pictures, how do I post them? I cannot get the uploader to work.


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## HCSO279

Steve M1911A1 said:


> fault of poor shooting technique, and less often the result of a gun defect.


 By no way do I consider myself an expert, but I would argue that my shooting technique is far from flawed. I do agree however, that I may not have given it a proper break in. The remainder of my complaints about the LCP and the P3AT are more just my preference and I would not want to dissuade someone for those reasons alone.


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## HCSO279

It says I do not have permission to access this page.


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## HCSO279

HCSO279 said:


> Ok, I have pictures, how do I post them? I cannot get the uploader to work.


 It says I do not have permission to access this page.


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## HCSO279

Ok, since it won't work, here's a link to it on Flickr: Flickr: copman690's Photostream


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## Steve M1911A1

HCSO279 said:


> Ok, since it won't work, here's a link to it on Flickr: Flickr: copman690's Photostream


I've found that yours is the easiest way to post photos.
I use PhotoBucket, but it's about the same.

I envy the beautiful rainbow finish on the SIG.
Enjoy them both.


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## thug23

Don't own one but have shot one numerous times...my friend owns a Sig 232 and I'll tell ya that thing is sweet. Looks really cool kinda like James Bond stuff and its very accurate. If I was gonna buy a 380 I'd go for that one for sure plus its small & slim enough to carry daily.
Good Luck.


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## HCSO279

Thank you Steve. I have received many complements on that gun today. It really is a beautiful gun!


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## Packard

I've owned a Walther PPKS. A fine weapon with an excellent set of sights. You can learn to shoot this firearm with excellent accuracy. The PPK was not available but I believe that the same comments will apply.

The Europeans like the magazine release at the bottom rather than at the side because it is less likely to cause the magazine to accidently drop by a poorly placed finger while shooting. With practice I don't think it makes a bit of difference in terms of how quickly you can re-load.

At any rate had a double stack .380 from Beretta in the early 1980s. It was a fine weapon and very reliable. The ammo back then was not so potent so I got rid of it, but today's .380s are much better. Beretta makes a single stack and a double stack. I recommend them.

The OP did not say how he intended to carry the weapon. If you are not going to pocket carry the gun I would avoid the very small .380s in favor of the mid-sized ones that are easier to grasp and easier to shoot accurately. There are many of them out there all about the size of the PPK.PPKS. Sig makes one, CZ makes one.

This chart shows the major ones: http://mouseguns.com/CompactCompare.pdf


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## berettabone

I voted for the Bodyguard............the Sig is sweet, but I don't like cock and lock......I carry with a Desantis holster in front pocket,,,comfortable and almost undetectable, unless you wear your pants like Elvis......


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## berettabone

I agree with Packard.....I own a Beretta 84fs.....12+1 capacity, great trigger, great accuracy, a liitle fat to carry, but if you are a larger person, it's probably not a problem....


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## denner

HCSO279 said:


> I have purchased the Sig P238 *and* the Kahr P380. I am probably dumb for buying two, but I couldn't decide. The Kahr is on a platform that I am more comfortable and well versed in. The Sig, being an SAO, is something that I will practice, until I am proficient, before I carry. Let me know what you think, but please be nice. I took all of your opinions to heart and really bought what I felt the best about.
> Thanks Everyone!


I believe it to be a great choice, both great reliable pistols. Just different platforms. Let us know how they shoot.


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## BugMan

I bought a new S&W Bodyguard and the trigger spring broke on the 14th round fired. I sold it after S&W repaired it because there's no way i could ever trust it again. I now have a Sig P238 for my daily cary weapon. I love the P238 and it is the most accurate .380 I've ever fired. I can do fairly decent at 50yds which I think is Great for any .380 The only draw back is that there is no decocking while safety is on so you have to cary "locked and loaded" or plan to load a round as you draw the weapon. Both of those options are dangerous for several reasons. All of that considered, I still LOVE my Sig.


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## berettabone

Was it an earlier serial number???????


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## BugMan

berettabone said:


> Was it an earlier serial number???????[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm not sure but I don't think so I bought it new from a dealer late in 2010


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## berettabone

If you bought it in 2010, odds are, it's an early serial #...........anything after EAH, is later................


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## ARW1979

Any feed back on the walther pk380?


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## Prin_C

The best .380 firearm for you is the one that fits your hand well and you can shoot very well. I suggest you try a range of firearms in that caliber and see which one is the correct fit for you. Everyone will have their preferences, and so will you.


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## mudpuppy62

I own an LCP and a Bursa Thunder .380 and I like the Bursa a lot better than the LCP. The Bursa just feels better and shoots better than the LCP. I have fired close to 500 rounds through the Bursa and it has never had a mis-feed or a failure, it is just a good gun. The Bursa is also a little cheaper than the LCP. 
I bought the Bursa right before the Y-2K thing hit back in 1999 and gave it to my wife (JIC)! I had an assortment of pistols and thought she could probably handle the .380 better than any thing else I had at that time. The .380 was the perfect choice for her.
Cutting through all the BS, I would highly suggest getting a Bursa over the LCP. Don't take me wrong, there is nothing at all wrong with the LCP, I just prefer the Bursa 3 to 1 over the LCP.


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## Holly

mudpuppy62 said:


> I own an LCP and a Bursa Thunder .380 and I like the Bursa a lot better than the LCP. The Bursa just feels better and shoots better than the LCP. I have fired close to 500 rounds through the Bursa and it has never had a mis-feed or a failure, it is just a good gun. The Bursa is also a little cheaper than the LCP.
> I bought the Bursa right before the Y-2K thing hit back in 1999 and gave it to my wife (JIC)! I had an assortment of pistols and thought she could probably handle the .380 better than any thing else I had at that time. The .380 was the perfect choice for her.
> Cutting through all the BS, I would highly suggest getting a Bursa over the LCP. Don't take me wrong, there is nothing at all wrong with the LCP, I just prefer the Bursa 3 to 1 over the LCP.


Never heard of it. Could you mean *Bersa*?


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## Steve M1911A1

Holly said:


> Never heard of it. Could you mean *Bersa*?


Oooh, you're just as nit-picky as I am!

Holly, Ted, and Steve-wotta team!


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## Holly

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Oooh, you're just as nit-picky as I am!
> 
> Holly, Ted, and Steve-wotta team!


Now, I'm finally one of the cool kids...


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## chessail77

Glad everyone is so cool, the Bersa really is a good, solid .380 pistol, kept it and sold my PPK.......JJ


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## Ricky59

The Kahr is my primary carry ...
in a 9mm..

PM9094N amazing gun, 
I've been looking for a P380 also..in black to match the 9mm..
It would be quite a pair ...


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## aarondhgraham

*Seriously, consider a Bersa,,,*

I have a standard Thunder .380,,,
It's size is the same as a Walther PPK,,,
It has a magazine capacity of 7 rounds + 1 in the chamber.

I am well over 750 rounds in mine,,,
Not one failure as yet,,,
It feeds anything.

The Bersa 380CC is 8+1 capacity,,,
Personally I like the standard better than the CC.

Click here please,,,

Aarond

.


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## SteveC

Another vote for Bersa. I actually got the Thunder in .32 (just a thing I have for that caliber) but shot my buddy's .380 a bunch while making up my mind. Both pistols were beautifully put together. Mine was really tight at first but after 250 rounds it's smooth as silk and accurate as all hell - or at least as accurate as I can be.


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## Ricky59

Well I just purchased a used P380 ..it shoots 100%..
Like my Kahr PM9 ..
I like it more than any other 380 I've had ..
PPK ..sold ..to big per the caliber 
LCP ..wifes gun
P238 ..sold ..locked & cocked not for me..

After getting use to the trigger ..Kahrs are amazing guns


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## ronmail65

HCSO279 said:


> I have purchased the Sig P238 *and* the Kahr P380. I am probably dumb for buying two, but I couldn't decide. The Kahr is on a platform that I am more comfortable and well versed in. The Sig, being an SAO, is something that I will practice, until I am proficient, before I carry. Let me know what you think, but please be nice. I took all of your opinions to heart and really bought what I felt the best about.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!


So it's been a while since you got your guns. How are you liking them?

I did not offer an opinion on this thread earlier, so my input here is admittedly late. Last Oct/Nov I was on the hunt for a small 380. I tried (rented and shot at the range) both of the guns that you purchased as well as the CZ83 and the Bersa Thunder. I didn't try the LCP, Kel-tec or anything that small because I knew that I wouldn't feel comfortable with them. I did not try the Walther PPK because the guys working at the range convinced me that they were very unreliable and over-priced (plus their rental was not functioning).

I ended up with the Bersa Thunder 380. I liked the feel, the size, trigger, features, recoil, I shot well with it, and I didn't experience any issues. The others didn't feel as comfortable or perform as well for me. No quality or performance complaints about the others, they just didn't fit me as well. Bonus... the Bersa is very inexpensive -- less than $300 for the all black version. I've since learned that all of the other guns I tried were at least twice that price. I has some feed issues during the first 100 rounds (break-in), but it's been flawless for the many hundreds of rounds that have followed. I really enjoy it.

If you have doubts about your choice or are looking for a 3rd 380, I recommend you take a look at the Bersa.


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## genesis

Hi HCSO:

Have you considered a revolver? We just purchased my girlfriend a Ruger LCR in 38 special (not 357) for $399. I reload for her and have shot it extensively and really like it. It's super, super light, reliable as dirt, butter smooth trigger, and accurate as all heck. I cut one ragged hole at 20 feet. When I put it in the front pocket of my jeans, I quite literally forget it's there. It's that light! IMHO a 38 special is better than a 357 for CC. I can guarantee that I can double tap center mass much quicker with a 38 special. Skill, not caliber, is what's important. I have a Ruger Redhawk and GP100. But if I were CC'ing, it would be the LCR in 38 Special. Here is a very informative video on it. It's very controllable and extremely accurate. The guy in the video is shooting at some seriously distant targets with this snubby. My 67 year old girlfriend has no trouble with it's recoil. She gotten pretty good with it. I pity the sole she drops the hammer on. We both prefer revolvers. There just more intuitive for us (no safeties or feed issues to deal with) and quicker to deploy and shoot accurately.

Don <><


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## Steve M1911A1

The heck with all this talk about guns...
I wanna come over and use that shooting gallery in your video!
Wow!



We'll be away visiting our brand-new granddaughter.
See you on July 7th.


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## qwiksdraw

It appears you won't go wrong with any of those guns. My 380 is a Bersa Thunder and it is reliable, accurate and not at all expensive. It shoots JHPs every bit as well as FMJs. It is the gun I used to qualify for CHL and is my carry gun.

I've also checked out the Sig 238 and the Colt Mustang. So now the question is do I need two 380's or do I need three?


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## Packard

My take is this: Both the Bersa and the PPK/PPKS are quality weapons. The Bersa is cheaper; the Walther is prettier. 

And who amongst you does not admire a pretty handgun?


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## skullfr

And now for my 2 cents.All are great choices but dont forget the CZ-82.It is 9x18,kinda like a +p .380,12+1 capacity(25 rounds with a spare mag),C&R eligible,proven military and police weapon,And J&G sells it for 229.95.


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## DGASE11

when u find out what 380 you would like, give me a call and i will see how much i can save you. 
i have shot the bodyguard, it has a long trigger pull.
i am a new dealer i will give you a good price, my name is Don 513-253-5188


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## TAPnRACK

Having been in a similar situation looking at .380's... my research and trials have led me to the Sig P238... the premier .380 in my opinion. Strong enough to hold up to repeated range use for years. A lot pricier than others mentioned, but you get what you pay for... a pleasure to shoot.


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## Dynamik1

If you're going to consider the SIG P238 you might just as well consider the SIG P938, a slightly larger 9mm. That takes away the ".380 is too small" argument and initiates the "friends dont let friends buy guns that dont start with a .4" argument, in which case, the Springfield XDS .45 is your best bet.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Dynamik1
Editor, EDC Knife Reviews
"Knife Reviews" | Best Knives for Every Day Carry


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## BigCityChief

I recommend three .380's: the Bersa Thunder Combat; the Beretta 84 FS; and the Beretta 85 FS. My Bodyguard .380 is the only S&W "problem child" I've ever had and cannot recommend it as an EDC firearm.


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## pic

TAPnRACK said:


> Having been in a similar situation looking at .380's... my research and trials have led me to the Sig P238... the premier .380 in my opinion. Strong enough to hold up to repeated range use for years. A lot pricier than others mentioned, but you get what you pay for... a pleasure to shoot.


is there a half cock position on that sig 238,


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## batcat

hey chief, what dont you like about the bodyguard?


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## Steve M1911A1

pic said:


> is there a half cock position on that sig 238,


I don't know the answer, in terms of the SIG 238. But I do know about the 1911 platform, and its clones.

If there is a "half-cock" notch on the 238's hammer, most probably it really is _not_ a half-cock notch. Putting the sear-nose into that notch will _not_ make the pistol safe.
The "half-cock" notch on any 1911 clone serves only to catch the falling hammer, if the user bobbles the thumb-cocking operation starting from Condition Two.
(If the instruction-book which accompanies a 238 contradicts me, then, _in that case only_, I stand corrected.)


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## TAPnRACK

Yes.... the Sig P238's hammer does go in a half cocked position.


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## BigCityChief

batcat said:


> hey chief, what dont you like about the bodyguard?


The Insight laser set screw will back out of its seat (even with blue loctite applied) after putting several hundred rounds through it in a single range session. This will disable the slide "return" function, keeping the firearm out of battery and make it very difficult to disassemble the pistol. I realize this little pistol probably wasn't made for this punishment, but I will only trust my safety to a firearm that will routinely perform flawlessly under these conditions. All the other firearms I own do so without a problem. I'm very leery of recommending the BG 380 to others until I have several successful extended range sessions with the "new & improved" screw in place under my belt. It troubles me because I love S&W firearms (own many of them). I also can't believe S&W hasn't done more to address this well documented design flaw. BTW - taking the BG to the range today - will provide an update.


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## Couch Potato

cclaxton said:


> I voted OTHER. However, any of the three you listed would be fine, and I would prefer the Kahr out of those three.
> But, if you are looking for a good .380 for CC, I would look at the Cz-83 before making a final decision. It holds has an excellent trigger, 12 rounds, and has a longer barrel, is full SA/DA and mag release and manual safety. You can run it cocked and locked or decocked. The recoil is very easily managed because of the 28oz weight.
> 
> Another one to consider is the Bersa Thunder380CC....alloy frame, 7+1 rounds, excellent trigger, slim width, small size overall, lightweight, accurate, excellent sights, and inexpensive. The same design as a Walther PPK, which is another one to consider although I don't like the weight of the Walther. But it is a great carry gun as well.
> 
> I don't like the Beretta 380's due to weight and the mag release is not on the grip, but at the bottom of the mag. The P238 is nice, but like other have said, you really need to holster it properly to carry it. That precludes pocket carry unless you use a pocket holster. Also, the Sig is a lot of money for a .380.
> 
> Check out USAammo.com for inexpensive .380 target ammo. I recommend the MagTech HollowPoints as a good value for self-defense ammo. Also, the Winchester Ranger T-Series and Hornady XTP are great but pricier.
> 
> I also own a Bodyguard .380 and it is *perfect to keep between the mattress and boxspring for the girlfriend,* and easy to carry in the summer when I can't really conceal my Kahr PM9, my primary carry.
> 
> If you can handle the size and weight of the Cz, I would go for that, but if you want lighter and smaller, the Kahr is your best choice, and if pocket carry then the bodyguard .380.
> CC
> CC


The wording there is a bit ambiguous. Is the intent the girlfriend would know there is a weapon handy should she need it or do you anticipate needing a gun to defend yourself against your girlfriend? Certainly a valid case can be made for both. If you are gone and she is alone in your bed she may well need access to it for protection. If she is gone and you are not alone in your bed you may well need it for protection from her when she arrives unannounced. There are certainly other possibilities for the meaning behind what was written, particularly if you are married! Though it is a good idea to keep posts brief and to the point, sometimes a few extra words are a really good idea.


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## BigCityChief

batcat said:


> hey chief, what dont you like about the bodyguard?


Update for batcat and anyone else who may be interested: I put 325 rounds downrange through the BG 380 this morning in under 2 hours - this was the pistol's debut with the new screw (fortified with a dab of blue Loctite and torqued down with the new wrench). For the first time with this pistol that I've owned for 3 months, I got that "I love my Smitties" feeling. Hopefully, this performance will continue.


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## berettatoter

I had to go with "other" here. As far as the mouse gun .380's go, I still believe that the Ruger LCP is one of the best on the market. The Bodyguard is pretty good, with the laser and all, but it's kinda "busy" with slide stops and safeties and all. Lets face it, a gun like this just needs to come out quick and put bullets on the bad guy efficiently, and at a distance of ten to fifteen feet, I think the laser and all the extra controls just make things more complicated - even in low light. This of course is just my humble opinion.


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## berettabone

It's never happened to me.........


BigCityChief said:


> Update for batcat and anyone else who may be interested: I put 325 rounds downrange through the BG 380 this morning in under 2 hours - this was the pistol's debut with the new screw (fortified with a dab of blue Loctite and torqued down with the new wrench). For the first time with this pistol that I've owned for 3 months, I got that "I love my Smitties" feeling. Hopefully, this performance will continue.


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## berettabone

The screw problem, that is......


BigCityChief said:


> The Insight laser set screw will back out of its seat (even with blue loctite applied) after putting several hundred rounds through it in a single range session. This will disable the slide "return" function, keeping the firearm out of battery and make it very difficult to disassemble the pistol. I realize this little pistol probably wasn't made for this punishment, but I will only trust my safety to a firearm that will routinely perform flawlessly under these conditions. All the other firearms I own do so without a problem. I'm very leery of recommending the BG 380 to others until I have several successful extended range sessions with the "new & improved" screw in place under my belt. It troubles me because I love S&W firearms (own many of them). I also can't believe S&W hasn't done more to address this well documented design flaw. BTW - taking the BG to the range today - will provide an update.


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## deba

deba here; first post from new mem. my .02c worth don't forget to take a look at the taurus 738 good luck on whatever sel. u make!


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## BigCityChief

berettabone said:


> It's never happened to me.........


And in 37 years of shooting, with 100's of thousands of rounds downrange, it never happened to me either - until December, 2012.


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## berettabone

We have the same amount of years shooting......I do keep my eye on things....I'll have to keep my eye on that.


BigCityChief said:


> And in 37 years of shooting, with 100's of thousands of rounds downrange, it never happened to me either - until December, 2012.


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## BigCityChief

10-4. Other than this issue, which I believe S&W is now adequately addressing with a different screw, I love the BG 380. I won't use it as a carry gun until I have several more successful range visits with it.


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## berettabone

I've been carrying mine for some time now.........I don't shoot the heck out of it, but, it's not meant for that...........use Rem. UHD 102 gr.


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## berettabone

I had a Beretta 84fs.........very nice, but too large and heavy for carry, for me. Otherwise, nice firearm.


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## zeke4351

TAPnRACK said:


> Yes.... the Sig P238's hammer does go in a half cocked position.


My P238 does not have a half cocked position. Where did you get your information?


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## VAMarine

zeke4351 said:


> My P238 does not have a half cocked position. Where did you get your information?


Yes there is, Sig refers to it as the safety intercept notch. It may not be at the halfway position, but its there.


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## paratrooper

I have two Beretta 84BB's. I really don't think of them as a compact .380, but rather, a mid-sized handgun. 

I do have a S&W BodyGuard, but still wouldn't mind having a true sub-compact .380.


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## kcs1

If you are looking for a sub-compact .380 you might want to take a look at the Masterpiece Arms .380 Protector. Same size and weight as a Seecamp .380 and can be bought for around $300.00. It is an all steel gun and very well made especially when you take the price point into consideration. Purchased mine last fall to replace a NAA Guardian .32 that I have used for about 15 years as "my gun when I could not carry a gun". Have put about 250 rounds through it with no problems at all. Also, taking size and no sights into consideration it is very accurate - 6" at 21'. If it is a sub-compact .380 you desire well worth looking into. Check their web site.


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## Steve M1911A1

VAMarine said:


> ...Sig refers to it as the safety intercept notch...


Um, if the SIG 238 has a "safety intercept notch," it is _not_ a half-cock safety.
Instead, it is a holdover from the original M1911 design, meant to catch a falling hammer when the pistol's user bobbles a thumb-cocking maneuver (or if the full-cock notch fractures).
It is _not_ a safe place to leave a semi-auto's hammer.

Single-action semi-autos could be carried in Condition Two, with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
Although Condition Two is a perfectly safe carry mode in a "flying firing-pin" design like the M1911, bringing the gun to Condition One by thumb cocking is _not_ a safe maneuver. It is all too easy to accidentally let the hammer slip out from beneath the thumb. In that case, if the hammer falls far enough, even a flying-firing-pin gun could be induced to discharge.
Just getting the pistol from Condition One into Condition Two is seen by many experienced shooters as an unsafe maneuver, also because of the possibility of slipping the hammer as it's being lowered. Because of that, the "safety intercept notch" is there to catch the falling hammer before it contacts the firing pin.

If SIG refers to this notch as a "safety intercept," I have to assume that they know what they're talking about. They designed the pistol (or, rather, they adapted an existing, older design). If it were a true half-cock notch, SIG would call it that.
Therefore, it is _not_ a half-cock safety, and it should never be used as if it were one.


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## VAMarine

I don't think anyone called it a "safety" if so I missed it. It would not be what I call a safety, however it is a safety feature.


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## Planoracer

Bersa .380 Thunder and ignore that it is made in Argentina.Great carry piece,great value.


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## VAMarine

Just realized this thereafter is over a year old, hopefully the Op has bought his gun since then...


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