# Who has used their home defense weapon?



## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm in the process of purchasing my first gun and the wife is still a little unsettled by it. I'm curious among this group who has actually pulled their weapon in home defense and how many have actually fired?


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

You aren't likely to find anybody here with that kind of experience who wants to discuss it over the Internet.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I thought of that but figured I would ask anyways. Basically my curiosity stems from possessing a firearm being a deterrent as opposed to firing said gun.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Its very personal and painful. Most people that have engaged in a SD incident do not like to talk about it openly. Its not something to be bragged about. That being said. Sometimes the BGs do not have it in them to continue if faced with a weapon. They, for the most part have the same fears as you and I. However, there is a certain breed of criminal that does not care, those are the individuals that you must train for, you just never know what BG you will run in to. 

Your wife's fear can be overcome with some range time, and some professional instruction by a instructor. It will benefit the both of you.


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## Capt Rick Hiott (Aug 22, 2010)

I got up last night out of bed with my Glock in my hand ready to shoot,,,,,it was the cat "catching a fit".

The only thing I worry about when shooting a bad guy in MY house is all the blast noise from the gun. (Its loud as hell) I could care less about the bad guy. 

He is right,,,the both of you need to spend time at the range and also set your wife down and talk to her, and explain to her how bad it can get if someone breaks in your house while your there asleep. I had to explain it to mine,,,she understood. (Thank God)

I just got her a Ruger for Christmas,,,,now we have MORE guns in the house!!!! (And thats a Good thing!!!)


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

I don't understand why women generally are unsettled by a weapon yet are not disturbed at the idea of being victimized and nobody being able to do anything about it. Being defenseless and safe have become the same thing these days thanks to media social conditioning.

In any case, I live in an apartment building in a college town so my weapon has never been pulled on anybody. However, during the holidays when all the college kids are expected to return to chicago (seriuosly everyone in Iowa is from chicago) there is alot of theft and home invasion that occurs during this period. Also we get alot of guys (gangstas) pretending to sell magazines door to door (really they are scoping for places to rob), they usually don't like the sound of a gun being cocked. They've completely stopped coming to my door.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I do apologize if anyone finds this topic inappropriate in any way. We have two small children and that's where my wife's concerns are based. Of course I will keep all guns locked and away. But as a concession I was offering not to store any ammo at home until she takes a class and becomes more comfortable. 

It's basically boiling down to the age old debate of does simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Cavere said:


> But as a concession I was offering not to store any ammo at home until she takes a class and becomes more comfortable.
> 
> It's basically boiling down to the age old debate of does simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.


Oh man, dude, I do not mean to go at you or anything but owning a pistol without any ammo, never a good idea, its just an expensive brass knuckle waiting to be stolen.

You kids should never be able to get a hold of a gun if you properly store it!!!

You have kids you say? Seems like a better reason to own a gun. I don't have children but not being able to defend them against armed criminals would scare me. But I can't blame you, my parents were unarmed raising us for awhile.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I understand what you mean. It would be a range pistol for a short time until my wife gets some experience. 

My parents never owned a gun. And up until now my straight razors have been my HD but we've lived in a gated condominium community. We're moving to a house in march which is when the no ammo phase will end.


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## Scott9mm (Jul 2, 2012)

Second hand story: Son (age 14) and Daughter (age 17) home from school during Christmas break last year (2011). Mom and dad were at work. Four armed thieves (ages 18-23) broke into house through back door, probably believing home was unoccupied. The kids heard the noise. The son told his sister to get in her bedroom closet and call 911 on her cell (which she did). The son took defensive position inside her bedroom door with the family 12 gauge and loaded buckshot. When first armed perp tried to enter the bedroom, the son fired twice. All perps fled but that injured one only made it as far as the yard, where he expired. Cops arrived 10-15 minutes later (it's a big county). The family refrigerator was collateral damage. Whole thing was on the 911 recording. The girl was pretty shaken but the boy was cool throughout. The local paper covered the incident in detail over several days as details emerged. The Sheriff found and arrested the three surviving perps. All of the perps already had substantial criminal records and several were out on bail or probation. There were no charges against the family.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

If there are both a defensive firearm and young children in the house, then the gun must be kept on an adult's body, or directly under an adult's control, at all times. No exceptions.
Safes and lockboxes are not sufficient protection against a truly curious, intelligent, but untrained child.
However, if there is a responsible and trained child in the house, the equation changes considerably.

I have had occasion to use my self-defense pistol at home.
I did not have to present ("draw") it, but I did have to indicate—subtly—that I was armed and ready to use it.
When I—subtly—indicated that I had a weapon and was ready to use it, the attempted home invasion stopped immediately, and the potential intruder retreated.
The potential intruder was, subsequently, quickly found and questioned by the sheriff's deputy on duty, who escorted him onto the next scheduled ferry.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Cavere said:


> I do apologize if anyone finds this topic inappropriate in any way. We have two small children and that's where my wife's concerns are based. Of course I will keep all guns locked and away. But as a concession I was offering not to store any ammo at home until she takes a class and becomes more comfortable.
> 
> It's basically boiling down to the age old debate of does simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.


Basically the ultimate responsibility rests with you and your wife. If you and your wife are new to firearms, have never been around them, or been raised around them, you both need as much training and classes as you can attend. Firearms are not forgiving and one mistake can mean disaster. That being said your children's ages make a difference as well and what you teach them. Some may disagree, but I do not leave one in the chamber when at home. You may never need a firearm, you may need one tomorrow, it's like having insurance, rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it. Research and statistics are arguable, but good guys having firearms significantly reduces the harm done to them during violent encounters.( Guns and Violence: A Summary of the Field ) Furthermore, I'm just not the victim type(some are) I'd rather fight and defend if possible rather than being a defenseless victim at the mercy of anyone. If you ever have need to pull a gun on anyone you better darn well be willing to use it. And yes, a firearm deters a BG and does not instigate worse if you hit them center mass w/ OObuck. Just remember, a firearm is just a tool, it can be used by good and evil and as long as mankind exists there will be good and evil. Time and technology evolve, human nature does not. If we were still cavemen and women we'd be defending ourselves w/ rocks, spears, and clubs, which are deadly, we have just happened to have evolved to firearms thank goodness.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

1. Gun without ammo = poor replacement for baseball bat
2. Gun locked in safe = see 1 above
3. Gun in hands of untrained individual = Danger to all

Obtain basic gun training from certified NRA or equiv. instructor before purchasing anything more than a bat.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I have experience with firearms. My wife does not. She will not have the code to the safe until she gets proper training from someone other than myself.


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## rolandrock (Sep 21, 2012)

There was a time when I had a 12 gauge pumper pointed at the head of an individual on the other side of a sliding glass door while I told him if his foot came across that threshold he would die...all the while the 911 operator was telling me that they are on the way and to put down the weapon...(ah...I don't friggan think so girlie)

You could just see he wanted inside the house in the worst way..he'd take a step forward then think better of it every time I said, "I WILL kill you"...he took off when he heard the sirens.

Some estranged husband thinking I was responsible for his wife's infidelity. He kept saying he knew his wife was in there and to send her out...My front door is steel and there are still dents in it from him beating it with a maglite to wake me up.

And just for the record, I didn't know him or his wife.

That's as close as it's ever gotten for me and that was plenty close enough.


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## Sgt45 (Jun 8, 2012)

As others have said, training for both of you. Really good training is not cheap, but it is, by orders of magnitude, cheaper than lawyers. I like Front Sight in Nevada, others don't. But it is family friendly and the four days are well worth it. There are memberships floating around which will make things much less expensive. PM me for more.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

My wife was in the same situation with me, she's still not extremely comfortable with it. I do bring it out to clean it and all on occassion but I just keep it in the guest room, in my safe and I practice with it in there. She doesnt say much any longer but like I said, she was unselttled at first. Just get a $50 safe from Target and latch it down, always keep it locked in there. I keep my ammo in there as well. Kinda outta sight, outta mind.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Sure hope you don't have to use it....by the time you get to it, it will be too late.


TheLAGuy said:


> My wife was in the same situation with me, she's still not extremely comfortable with it. I do bring it out to clean it and all on occassion but I just keep it in the guest room, in my safe and I practice with it in there. She doesnt say much any longer but like I said, she was unselttled at first. Just get a $50 safe from Target and latch it down, always keep it locked in there. I keep my ammo in there as well. Kinda outta sight, outta mind.


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## ssureshot (Jan 7, 2013)

My wife grew up around guns in her family, and was still wary when we purchased her first gun to carry. Only took her a few weeks to actually put the clip in the pistol. She has yet to graduate to loading one in the chamber.. But she feels much safer and won't leave the house without it now...


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## Russ (Aug 19, 2011)

Cavere said:


> I do apologize if anyone finds this topic inappropriate in any way. We have two small children and that's where my wife's concerns are based. Of course I will keep all guns locked and away. But as a concession I was offering not to store any ammo at home until she takes a class and becomes more comfortable.
> 
> It's basically boiling down to the age old debate of does simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.


Cavere

I am going to be blunt. If you are not prepared to draw a loaded gun and immediately shoot to kill don't buy the gun.

If you hesitate if your life or a loved ones is in immanent danger of death you will die.

It is crazy to protect your family with an empty gun. You would be better off with pepper spray.

The loaded gun needs to be locked in a quick access night stand vault.

I can access my loaded and chambered 45 auto in 2 seconds without getting out of bed.

Russ


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## 95chevy (Nov 3, 2012)

^^^^ I feel the same way. 

If you find your self needing to use a firearm to protect you, your family or your property it best be loaded and ready to use. And he's right. If you hesitate even for a second, you'll find yourself in a bad position or worse. I've always felt that if someone comes into your home knowing your in it, means no good and is willing to hurt or kill you. Best thing to do is get a small gun vault. They aren't expensive and will protect the gun from your kids while still allowing the gun to be there when you need it.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Cavere said:


> ...[D]oes simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.


Please explain how possessing a gun-even a loaded gun-could "instigate...violence."


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## Polkster13 (Feb 10, 2013)

Kids are curious by nature. I have found that if you try to hide something from them, they will only want to see what it is even more. Dare I say it, but if I had small children and you are going to have a gun, you need to teach them what it is and to respect it by not touching it. I know gun ranges will not allow children on them, but if you have someone that lives in the country where you can shoot yourself, it *MAY* be appropriate (only you and your wife will know for sure) to take them along with you (make sure they have eye and ear protection) and show them what a gun will do. The loud bang and the bullet holes in the target should be enough for most children to understand that this is not a toy and should not be played with. Get them trained on using firearms as soon as you feel they can handle it. My father taught me how to use a 12-guage shotgun when I was in middle school. Before that I was shooting a pellet gun and 22 rifle. My wife grew up in the country and used small arms fire from a young age as well. If you don't feel it is appropriate for your children to know anything about guns or they are too little to be taught about guns, then I personally feel you should not have one in the house with them. That is my personal opinion and it is up to you to make the rational decision as to whether or not you want guns in your home if you have children. But it is your responsibility to make sure your guns are kept safe and out-of-reach of anyone who does not know how to properly handle it regardless of their age.


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## Mayfly (Feb 2, 2013)

Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot. 
Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
Let the flaming begin... thank you


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Mayfly said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
> Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
> Let the flaming begin... thank you


Welcome, first you are a Canadian, I'm a US born citizen. I'm not sure what your constitution grants in rights( if any) but here in the US we have what is known as a bill of rights. Our country was founded upon a deep mistrust of an authoritarian Federal(central) government.You may disagree, but that's the way it is. To say that any Government will not fail, or become tyrannical, and fail to protect you at any point in time is naive in my opinion. We the People(the true government) have certain inalienable rights and as such a law abiding citizen has an inalienable right to own firearms. I don't know where you live, but safe to say, here in the US we have many evil, stupid, uneducated, criminals hell bent on robbing, burglarizing, murdering, raping and other forms of mayhem, as like any society in varying degrees. As such, I wish to be armed in order to protect myself from those type of individuals, especially in my home. I don't know what type of Utopia you live in Mayfly, but where I live Utopia just ain't happening yet. I guess we could turn back the hands of time and get rid of all firearms and protect ourselves w/ clubs, spears and rocks, but i don't see that happening anytime soon. As far as your hypothetical young man scenario, that may be true, but just as well the person breaking into your home could be hell bent on killing you as well. You seem like the victim type, which is fair enough, but just not me, thank-you. Oh, BTY, if you can, please join and support the NRA...all the best.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Mayfly said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
> Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
> Let the flaming begin... thank you


You state that you would rather fix a scenario (situation) with a baseball bat. That to me seems a little barbaric. I can not see my wife carrying a baseball bat , even the ability to properly swing the baseball bat. I'm very athletic, Baseball was one of my major sports growing up.
I do not even think I would be able to hit flying bullets out of the air with a baseball bat. In which way would you use a baseball bat and what kind of scenario are you referring too, thanks

This forum is international I believe, do not outcast yourself from the start


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## Mayfly (Feb 2, 2013)

Thank you for your opinions. I guess we view life differently and thank you for your post.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Mayfly said:


> Thank you for your opinions. I guess we view life differently and thank you for your post.


I am really curious about the baseball bat.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

We don't have enough therapists to handle all the misguided souls in the usa. So we reserve the right to defend our families for the misguided that infringe upon my right to live another day


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Mayfly said:


> Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but *if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it*? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.


If someone breaks into my house, they have the option of surrendering or retreating, once they see me start to point a gun at them, but they need to do it very quickly, because I won't put my life or my family in jeopardy, on the chance it is just somebody's nice boy who has gone astray.

If your faith in mankind leads you to want to give a criminal the option of deciding whether you should draw another breath, I support your decision wholeheartedly, and wish you well. Just don't make any rules for me to follow.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Typical, the canadians just think us Americans are trigger happy fools. So [email protected]


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## Overkill0084 (Nov 28, 2010)

Cavere said:


> I do apologize if anyone finds this topic inappropriate in any way. We have two small children and that's where my wife's concerns are based. Of course I will keep all guns locked and away.* But as a concession I was offering not to store any ammo at home until she takes a class and becomes more comfortable. *
> 
> It's basically boiling down to the age old debate of does simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.


Much like buying a car with no fuel. Why bother? Seek training for both of you. Best money you will ever spend. Additionally, visit this site:
Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.
By a woman for women, but with advice for husbands with skeptical wives.



Mayfly said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
> Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it?What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
> Let the flaming begin... thank you


When little misguided Johnny & friends kick in your door at 0300, your baseball bat might be as useful as a Nerf gun if for some reason little Johnny & friends are packing heat. 
Knowingly breaking in to an occupied house is not theft. It's not the neighbor's kid swiping your garden gnome out of the yard. It's home invasion. Those who do it are typically not the sort who respect boundaries. Much in the way that armed robbery is not simple theft and rape is not about sex. It's an act of violence with the threat of deadly force. I don't understand how even a liberal moron wouldn't see that meeting the threat of deadly force with the same is a necessary thing. 
I wonder, would you disarm the police? If meeting force with force is bad, then by that reasoning, the police shouldn't have weapons either. And no, before you say it, Police are not responsible for your protection. Otherwise you'd be able to sue when they failed to do so. 
As for bad decisions, when some poor misguided soul kills someone you care about, I suspect that you will not be as open minded about their particular circumstances. Does the victim owe the perp some sort of understanding? No, sorry, if you can manage to understand them man who invades your home great, but it's not something they are owed. I, for one, wouldn't think of wasting my time with it.
Stupid should hurt. Being violently stupid is sometimes fatal, as it should be.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Overkill0084 said:


> Much like buying a car with no fuel. Why bother? Seek training for both of you. Best money you will ever spend. Additionally, visit this site:
> Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.
> By a woman for women, but with advice for husbands with skeptical wives.
> 
> ...


Good comment, do you guys knows the rules/laws if someone busts in your house at night are you allowed to shoot? As far as I know, if you feel like your life is threatened. You can.

Not trying to rob this thread, just threw up a question I had.


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## Overkill0084 (Nov 28, 2010)

TheLAGuy said:


> Good comment, do you guys knows the rules/laws if someone busts in your house at night are you allowed to shoot? As far as I know, if you feel like your life is threatened. You can.
> 
> Not trying to rob this thread, just threw up a question I had.


The laws governing self defense will depend on where you are standing when you do it. CA (I'm assuming CA from your handle) has it's own specific rules. I suspect, like many other CA laws, they don't always make sense. I would not presume to state what the laws are there. Consult local laws and get on some CA gun/SD forums for more clear answers. 
Typically as a rule of thumb, an armed guy in your house is fair game in most jurisdictions, but hell, even that's no guarantee anymore.

Check here: Handgunlaw.us It might help get the ball rolling.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Laws vary by state...

In MI we fall under the Castle Doctrine and you are allowed to shoot an intruder on sight, no verbal warning or giving the intruder a chance to retreat. You are acting under the impression that someone breaking into your home means you harm. You have a right to protect yourself and family... but not property (can't shoot someone who just stole your car from your driveway). If the intruder runs out you cannot follow and shoot him down the street... because the threat ended and you became the aggressor the moment he left and you began to persue him. You also have no obligation to retreat in your own home... laws change once outside your "four walls" of the residence.

That being said... please identify your intruder/target before you blindly fire a weapon at him/her. 

TRUE STORY: A man hears a noise coming from the kitchen in the middle of the night and see's a silhouette coming through the window. He fires his handgun and instantly kills the intruder.... only to find out it was his 20 yr old son coming home from college for the weekend to surprise his family. The son had forgot/lost his key and came in through an open window since it was late. The father was cleared of the shooting (legally)... but now his son was dead, and he has to carry that burden.

Moral of the story... everyone who has a handgun should also have a flashlight in the nightstand. Not saying you have to illuminate you position, but they can be used tactically to give you an advantage.

TRUE STORY: I, myself have had an intruder in my home... we had just moved in a new house and in the process of unpacking. My wife calls to me that someone is in the house. I arrive in the living room to find a teenager going through my DVD collection. I call to him but get no response... in fact, he ignores me and continues to browse through my movies. My firearm is tucked in my pants (small of back)... I choose not to pull it out just yet as I instruct my wife to grab the kids and go to the bedroom. I notice the teenager is wearing a diaper and after closer inspection appears to be mentally challenged. I call 911 and they advise that a mentally challenged boy is missing in the area. I keep an eye on him til the police arrive to escort the young man home. 

Moral of the story... is don't be so quick to fill people full of lead... identify your target and make sure it's a threat. I was well within my right to shoot this kid... but I deemed him to not pose an immediate threat to my safety. I would not want that burden to carry.

Obviously there are times when the threat is apparent and quick action is necessary.... so you must know your capabilities and limitations so you can make the right decision if that moment ever comes. Use sound judgement and common sense... and a flashlight (if possible).


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Mayfly said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
> Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
> Let the flaming begin... thank you


First and foremost, welcome to the forum.

Second, as far as "the sky is falling mentality" we do not want Canada-like gun laws, if it can happen to you it can happen to us and worse.

Thirdly, lethal force may or may not be used to protect property depending on jurisdiction.

I would not kill someone over property alone, if someone was in my house for my tv, I won't shoot over a tv but at the same time I'm not sure I would just let them walk out with a promise not to come back and that would mean holding them while waiting for police etc.

Should that person be armed and desperate...well desperate people do desperate things. I haven't heard of too many home invaders that weren't desperate for something. Some could take discovery as a threat resulting in apprehension and incarceration and that may not be an option they are willing to accept.

Should discovery of an intruder escalate to a situation where lethal force is legally justified, I'm going to use it. I have no idea of this person's skill or if he is alone or not. I am going to remove the threat as effeciantly as possible, and that means he either surrenders or is shot till he stops via death or common sense, which ever takes hold first.

If he decides to flee at the sight of the gun so much the better. Let him go.

Fourth, as far as the bat is concerned...not exactly a great close quarters weapon, if you're confronted in a hall or small room you may not get the room to get a good swing.

Not sure if our Canadian friend is a bachelor / parent or not but if some thug has your wife or child at knifepoint what would you rather have, a bat or a gun?

Not that I'm advocating everyone should take the shot in a possible hostage scenario, that's up to each individual (and their spouse) and the skill level of the individual.

Besides, I don't play baseball what the heck do I need a bat for anyway?


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## new guy (Nov 16, 2010)

OP, much like yourself and wife, I was reluctant to buy a gun. I am 38 years old with a wife and 10 year old daughter. I have never "needed" a gun in 38 years, but I decided with the way crazies are in America right now I am going to protect my family and our home to the best of my ability. My wife and I sat down and had a serious talk about guns and decided we both wanted to get them. Before I bought my first gun I bought a bio metric safe that I practiced getting into to see how quickly I could access my gun in an emergency. I can access my gun in about 2 seconds flat. After I got that down then I started looking for my first gun. I started with a .22 caliber pistol to get used to shooting. Nothing fancy, just a good reliable semi automatic 12 rounder that I can squeeze off pretty quickly. And accurately too I might add. My first trip to the range went as expected, I wasn't as accurate as I had hoped. From 30' on an 8" target I was grouping 12 shots within a 6" group. After some tuning on myself, breathing and relaxing exercises on my second trip to the range from the same 30' I was grouping 12 shots at no more than 3". This was only my second time shooting this particular gun. Now, I just bought a better 380 auto pistol with Crimson Laser grips and love it. I haven't been to the range with it, i just bought it last night. I know it will have more recoil than the .22, so I will have to adjust for that once I get to the range. Now, on to the tough question. Would I ever use my gun if needed? Absolutely! If someone is trying to get in my house, they are obviously not invited, so they are not welcome and in my eyes they are there to harm my family. Do I want to harm another human being? No. But I will not allow myself to be harmed if I don't have to. Remember, you can't protect yourself if you aren't prepared. Just make sure you spend some time at the range with your wife, and if you can afford to, take some safety and training classes. Remember, be safe no matter what you do.


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## IamArmed (Mar 1, 2013)

Mayfly said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
> Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
> Let the flaming begin... thank you


If he breaks in your home and ends up dead because of it... you must remember that was his decision, not yours. He obviously thought it was worth the risk. I am sure he did not break in to have a glass of milk from your fridge and cookies from your cupboard. Do you have a wife and children? Do you have a daughter? Do I need to say more? Remember this. If you need a gun nothing else can take its place. The old saying goes here. I would rather have a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it. Just know your firearm (practice, practice, practice) and respect it and know what it can do and it will serve you well if needed.

Your being Canadian is of no consequense. Not sure why you even mentioned it.


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

> *There was a time when I had a 12 gauge pumper pointed at the head of an individual on the other side of a sliding glass door *while I told him if his foot came across that threshold he would die...all the while the 911 operator was telling me that they are on the way and to put down the weapon...(ah...I don't friggan think so girlie)
> 
> You could just see he wanted inside the house in the worst way..*he'd take a step forward then think better of it every time I said, "I WILL kill you"...he took off when he heard the sirens.*


With gun pointed at his head, he still needed sirens before he retreated? Wow, that takes a special kind of stupid.


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## Broondog (Feb 1, 2013)

this thread just reminded me of a sign i saw at the farm store earlier this week. maybe some of y'all might be interested in such a thing.

no one would ever see it at my place or i would have picked one up.


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## bubbinator (May 15, 2012)

Cavere-Are you a NRA Member? If so, good for you. If not-Why not? Their American Rifleman mag has at least 5 stories an issue about home defense gun use. My wife and are both retired LEOs and used guns in self-defense for years, so I know it works. As an Instructor I taught many female officer to shoot with full power LE weapons, mostly 40s and 45s. For a gun shy newbie a 38 Special revolver/ 9mm auto will be easier. A .22 pistol/rifle is easy and fun to shoot and is easy to train basics for a newbie. Example of a female using gun to defend herself and kids-16yr old girl home alone had 2 hispanic male felons invade her home while babysitting her siblings. They retreated to a master bedroom where her family guns were secured. She warned them to go away, they didn't. She was trained to use a shotgun as a skeet competitor and did so very well in this case. USA 2 Mexico -2.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I have been away from this thread for awhile. I understand where a lot of the mixed opinions are coming from. I think that house layout dictate what HD weapon would be best. In my house the hallway leading to the bedrooms is upstairs but also very narrow. A bat would not work well. I have since purchased a 9mm and a .22. They are not kept loaded and chambered but in current situation it would take about ten seconds to insert the loaded mag chamber a round and take a defense position protecting my wife and children. This would also leave the perp two exit locations to flee which is ideal. I have also taken a concealed class and am waiting for my permit to arrive. 

I am not currently an NRA member. I am doing more research into it. There are many things they do which is great. Some other things I find to be a little too far for my views. I know many disagree and that's fine.


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## new guy (Nov 16, 2010)

Cavere said:


> I have been away from this thread for awhile. I understand where a lot of the mixed opinions are coming from. I think that house layout dictate what HD weapon would be best. In my house the hallway leading to the bedrooms is upstairs but also very narrow. A bat would not work well. I have since purchased a 9mm and a .22. They are not kept loaded and chambered but in current situation it would take about ten seconds to insert the loaded mag chamber a round and take a defense position protecting my wife and children. This would also leave the perp two exit locations to flee which is ideal. I have also taken a concealed class and am waiting for my permit to arrive.
> 
> I am not currently an NRA member. I am doing more research into it. There are many things they do which is great. Some other things I find to be a little too far for my views. I know many disagree and that's fine.


Why keep your guns unloaded? Honestly an unloaded gun in an emergency situation isn't worth much. I keep both of my guns with loaded magazines and the safety on. I don't keep a round in the chamber, but I can flick the safety down and chamber a round in about 1 second. I understand its a safety concern, but in an emergency situation you may fumble and drop your magazine, then you are screwed! A loaded gun is your best defense against someone unwelcome in your home. It took me a while to get there too though, but after some range time, practicing for emergency situations, and just getting down what all you need to think of in case of an emergency, my guns are within an arms reach away from me while sleeping. They are fully loaded, and I can be ready.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

new guy said:


> Why keep your guns unloaded? Honestly an unloaded gun in an emergency situation isn't worth much. I keep both of my guns with loaded magazines and the safety on. I don't keep a round in the chamber, but I can flick the safety down and chamber a round in about 1 second. I understand its a safety concern, but in an emergency situation you may fumble and drop your magazine, then you are screwed! A loaded gun is your best defense against someone unwelcome in your home. It took me a while to get there too though, but after some range time, practicing for emergency situations, and just getting down what all you need to think of in case of an emergency, my guns are within an arms reach away from me while sleeping. They are fully loaded, and I can be ready.


You are correct a loaded gun can be your best defense. You should load yours as well....Having a weapon with an empty chamber puts you at risk as well. You might forget, you might cause a stoppage. If it is a defensive weapon it should be loaded, chambered and ready to go.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

It's something I am working on with my wife. But being two actions from a chambered round is much better than nothing at all.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Cavere said:


> It's something I am working on with my wife. But being two actions from a chambered round is much better than nothing at all.


Absolutely, you have access if needed. All situations are different. The people who point fingers are not always in a perfect defense situation themselves


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## MarineScott (Jan 13, 2013)

I raised2 kids, and never locked up my firearms. NEVER once did they bother them. We would go shooting many times during the week, and every week end. At age 5 my boy could easily put a .38 rd through the head of a silhouette target at 50 yds. My daughter the same. Both enlisted in the Marine Corps at 17 and my son was a marksmanship instructor.
Teaching responsibility and drilling it in to them is the key.
Teaching my grandkids will be more of a challenge.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Cavere said:


> It's something I am working on with my wife. But being two actions from a chambered round is much better than nothing at all.


Please do not take this as me being hard on you, that is not my intent. Two actions away from being chambered is still two actions away from being ready for the fight. It is a false sense of security. You have to be ready to deliver violence greater than your enemy, with the mindset that your going to win at all costs. With all of the crap flying around in an SD encounter, the last thing you should be worrying about is whether your weapon is ready for the fight....


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

double post...


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

I dunno if I'd call it a false sense of security, more of a lesser sense. The security is still there, just not quite as ready.


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## HOPELESS (Sep 1, 2012)

Great post all the right answers I hope more member read this! Alway be safe and ready


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Haas said:


> I dunno if I'd call it a false sense of security, more of a lesser sense. The security is still there, just not quite as ready.


Thus making it false. If its less its not full. The point of preparing for such an encounter is to be ready. There is no re-spawn in real life..


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

The false sense of security is the home alarm system. Obviously once the alarm goes off the BG would have plenty of time to grab what they came for and run or injure my family before LEO came. But with my tv laptop and desktop being much easier and visible targets by the time the alarm went off I would easily have enough time to insert loaded Mag rack the slide and take my position. 

If I held a position of some power where a break in would be likely for the intent of harming myself or my family then yes things would be different.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Cavere said:


> The false sense of security is the home alarm system. Obviously once the alarm goes off the BG would have plenty of time to grab what they came for and run or injure my family before LEO came. But with my tv laptop and desktop being much easier and visible targets by the time the alarm went off I would easily have enough time to insert loaded Mag rack the slide and take my position.
> 
> *If I held a position of some power where a break in would be likely for the intent of harming myself or my family then yes things would be different*.


I hope that you and your family never have to find that out. My only assumption about BGs breaking into homes when people are home is that there intent is to do harm....


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Ok who has their gun at hand when they are on the crapper.. If not ,your in a bad situation


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## Haas (Jun 24, 2009)

Harryball said:


> Thus making it false. If its less its not full. The point of preparing for such an encounter is to be ready. There is no re-spawn in real life..


LOL! Well, you've got a point, but grammatically, false means untrue, or in this case, no security. To me, it still seems like there's some security, just slightly diminished.


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## guardrail (May 23, 2010)

pic said:


> Ok who has their gun at hand when they are on the crapper.. If not ,your in a bad situation


All I can say is poo finger trumps bad guy.


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## guardrail (May 23, 2010)

new guy said:


> Why keep your guns unloaded? Honestly an unloaded gun in an emergency situation isn't worth much. I keep both of my guns with loaded magazines and the safety on. I don't keep a round in the chamber, but I can flick the safety down and chamber a round in about 1 second. I understand its a safety concern, but in an emergency situation you may fumble and drop your magazine, then you are screwed! A loaded gun is your best defense against someone unwelcome in your home. It took me a while to get there too though, but after some range time, practicing for emergency situations, and just getting down what all you need to think of in case of an emergency, my guns are within an arms reach away from me while sleeping. They are fully loaded, and I can be ready.


Sorry, you don't keep your gun loaded, just your magazine. If you are awaken out of a deep sleep by a BG, a loaded magazine in the gun isn't any better than on the night stand.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

guardrail said:


> All I can say is poo finger trumps bad guy.


If I were to kick In a door
To grab a bad guy for the bounty and I knew he lived alone. I would wait for the bathroom light to come on. Bring your guns to the bathroom or shower with the light off


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## guardrail (May 23, 2010)

pic said:


> If I were to kick In a door
> To grab a bad guy for the bounty and I knew he lived alone. I would wait for the bathroom light to come on. Bring your guns to the bathroom or shower with the light off


You have to get through the door first. After the 3rd or 4th kick you'd realize you should have knocked. I'd be off the throne and ruining your day by the 3rd unsuccessful kick. Either way, I'm not that paranoid that I need a gun in the crapper.


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## momtotwo (Jan 22, 2013)

I have small kids....

I am going to tell you from my experience, if you tell you kids not to touch something, they are going to touch it. You are better off to teach them how to use it under supervision and let them shoot with you from time to time.

Our nearly 5 year old is allowed to shoot off of the bench. both of our kids shoot in our laps.

They have both shot the .22 rifle. The 9mm pistol. The almost 5 year old has also shot the 45 with his daddy as well as the .223 rifle.

They know what firearms do. They know that if they want to shoot one, they are allowed to when we are with them. They know not to mess with them otherwise. We know that we can't trust this and keep everything put away safely.

It is always best to involve kids in things like this. If the world goes to sh*t, we may be counting on our 5, 6, 7, and 8 year old kids to have our backs. It is best that they already have a clue.

I know that my almost 5 year old will be able to do some good shooting in another year. He could hit a bucket at 50 yards now. He can hit a propped up 'clay' at 25 yards off the bench with a .22 now. (maybe not every shot but he is close every shot) Point is, another year, he will be good. Another 3 years, he will be awesome. Another 10 years, he won't be some psycho kid shooting up a school because we didn't pay him any attention. He will be out hanging at the range with us...hopefully working on some distinguished points. 


I have been shooting since I was 3...in my daddy's lap. He let us shoot on our own when we were big enough to hold a gun. He bought us a pellet pistol so we could work on our aim.

When we were each 10, he got us each a bb gun. By the time I was 12, I was shooting my new ar15 across the course in competition. I am not the best there ever was but I can take out a zombie at 600 yards with a 20 mph cross wind. I think that will keep me alive a little longer than most girls.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Some things are better left not asked. 

All I know is that it does happen, and when it does, a lot of lives change, and not all for the better.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

guardrail said:


> You have to get through the door first. After the 3rd or 4th kick you'd realize you should have knocked. I'd be off the throne and ruining your day by the 3rd unsuccessful kick. Either way, I'm not that paranoid that I need a gun in the crapper.


LOL, how about a window? Just trying to make a point that we are all in vulnerable situations at some time during the day, or night.
Hey, Mr. guardrail, Is that you in the picture ? looks like your smiling after a rough night , lol. looks like a pitbull with big ears.
.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

momtotwo said:


> I have small kids....
> 
> I am going to tell you from my experience, if you tell you kids not to touch something, they are going to touch it. You are better off to teach them how to use it under supervision and let them shoot with you from time to time.
> 
> ...


Holy shit,lol. some kids grow up faster then others that's for sure.I'm coming down to florida for a little relaxation. Just where in the heck are those ZOMBIES ?
I don't need any confrontations while I'm vacationing


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## stlbob (Mar 5, 2013)

Been around firearms my entire life.Was taught proper respect for guns,never an issue.

Have i ever used a gun in SD,no.But an Uncle,A cousin,and my father have.Nothing like tv,even in the most obvious case with my dads brother it really affected him deeply.My family are Christians and taking a life almost ruined my Uncle.

I hope i pass MY firearms along to my son never having being fired in anger,BUT if someone makes the decision to endanger me or my family.Well they are the ones that made that decision not me.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

momtotwo said:


> I have small kids....
> 
> I am going to tell you from my experience, if you tell you kids not to touch something, they are going to touch it. You are better off to teach them how to use it under supervision and let them shoot with you from time to time.
> 
> ...


Great post! My grandkids are not quite that far advanced...but they would be if I lived in a locale where shooting opportunities were more frequent. Keep up the good work. :smt1099


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## momtotwo (Jan 22, 2013)

pic said:


> Holy shit,lol. some kids grow up faster then others that's for sure.I'm coming down to florida for a little relaxation. Just where in the heck are those ZOMBIES ?
> I don't need any confrontations while I'm vacationing


you never know...there are liberals all around us.....


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

momtotwo said:


> you never know...there are liberals all around us.....


good one :anim_lol:


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