# First Handgun, Help



## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

Hello, 

I want to first start off by saying that I love the site and forums are extremely helpful... However I am looking to get my first handgun (well gun in general) and have decided on a 9mm but not which one. I am unable to go to my gun shop because of unusual circumstances (but that's not the case). I will be able to here in the next months or so.
But sitting her I've read reviews and would like help on what compare when shooting, and reading thorough the reviews. 
I think I've narrowed it down to;

Smith and Wesson M & P
Glock 17
Beretta PX4 
Springfield XDm
Taurus PT-92 or or Beretta 92FS
Ruger SR9

Not necessarily in that order but I really would like to know someone else's opinion other than on impersonal forums.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to ya'll's response,

jbultman


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

What are your thoughts about only these 7 items, Do not tell me all abut your 1911 or anything like it. Do not tell me to buy the one that fits my hand. Do not tell me to go with a 45 or than a 9mm is a wimpy choice I am interested in your experience with only these two handguns. Fit and finish, performance, reliability, ease of disassembly, accuracy etc.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

First off, never put Taurus and Beretta in the same sentence. There's no comparison or similarity between the two. 

Beretta is a true world-class handgun. Taurus is, well.........let's just leave it at that. 

By now, you might have a clue as to what I'm going to recommend. The Beretta 92FS of course. It's head and shoulders above every gun you have listed. 

You buy that gun and it will serve you well for the rest of your life. I usually don't go out on a limb very often for all that many firearms and recommend one, or two. 

But since you didn't mention a Sig, you simply can't go wrong with the 92FS.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> First off, never put Taurus and Beretta in the same sentence. There's no comparison or similarity between the two.
> 
> Beretta is a true world-class handgun. Taurus is, well.........let's just leave it at that.
> 
> ...


Yea i figured that, I was hesitant on the 92FS #1 the complexity for a first gun and #2 the price... The only reason that I mentioned the Taurus and evidently them together was because of the Brazilian factory, whatever you want to call it, but none-the-less I see your argument. However I was looking at a Sig or 2, like the SP2022 but that's the only thing I've heard anything extensive about, even though I've heard Sig and their products are reputable... Thoughts? Sig suggestions?!


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

You'll love the beretta 92. It's one of those guns I got rid of, for some odd reason,lol. Great gun.
External hammer, double action if needed. I like the open top slide style..


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

SIG P226.... like the Beretta 92, it has a long history and reputation for reliability and accuracy. Both are in a higher price range but are worth it. Buy once, cry once... and you have a gun that will outshoot you for years and last long enough to be passed down to another user.

I own both and highly recommend both. Great guns that are in another class than the others on your list.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

jbultman said:


> Yea i figured that, I was hesitant on the 92FS #1 the complexity for a first gun and #2 the price... The only reason that I mentioned the Taurus and evidently them together was because of the Brazilian factory, whatever you want to call it, but none-the-less I see your argument. However I was looking at a Sig or 2, like the SP2022 but that's the only thing I've heard anything extensive about, even though I've heard Sig and their products are reputable... Thoughts? Sig suggestions?!


I own 2 of the pistols that you speak of from your original list; 92fs and PX4 storm's. Where did you get the information that a 92FS was too complex for a first time handgun? I assume you're wanting opinions regarding the pistols you mentioned by those who own them? The PX4 and 92FS are great pistols in my opinion. When you say you want comparisons when shooting, what exactly do you mean? Do you want subjective opinions or objective opinions, that being said even if you had an individual that has owned and shot all the pistols from your list it would still come down to a subjective opinion for the most part. One pistol that shoots well for one may not shoot well for the others and vis-a-versa?  When you say that in the next couple of months you will be able to hopefully shoot and handle the pistols on your list in my opinion is the answer you are looking for. Pistols for the most part are very personal to the individual in their likes and dislikes. You have striker fired pistols mixed in w/ hammer fired pistols, do you like external safeties? What type of trigger do you like or prefer......so on and so on..............?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

You'll find that quality firearms will hold their value as the years go by. Chances are good that you might not lose any money spent, if you should decide to sell after so many years, as long as the gun has been properly cared for.

_So, so_ _firearms_, you'll be very lucky to get back 50% of what you paid for them after so many years.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

The Beretta 92FS is very simple and easy to break-down for a quick cleaning. 

For me, it takes about 3-4 seconds or so.


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## 95chevy (Nov 3, 2012)

My opinion is the beretta 92fs. I have one and I love it. I love it way more than any gun (1911's included) its super accurate and comfortable to me. I can also highly recommend the Springfield xd line of pistols.


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## jrg82 (Apr 9, 2013)

Just purchased sig p250 subcompact 9mm... Extremely pleased with accuracy and shoot ability. Very easy to disassemble. I would highly recommend this gun especially if its your first.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

denner said:


> I own 2 of the pistols that you speak of from your original list; 92fs and PX4 storm's. Where did you get the information that a 92FS was too complex for a first time handgun? I assume you're wanting opinions regarding the pistols you mentioned by those who own them? The PX4 and 92FS are great pistols in my opinion. When you say you want comparisons when shooting, what exactly do you mean? Do you want subjective opinions or objective opinions, that being said even if you had an individual that has owned and shot all the pistols from your list it would still come down to a subjective opinion for the most part. One pistol that shoots well for one may not shoot well for the others and vis-a-versa?  When you say that in the next couple of months you will be able to hopefully shoot and handle the pistols on your list in my opinion is the answer you are looking for. Pistols for the most part are very personal to the individual in their likes and dislikes. You have striker fired pistols mixed in w/ hammer fired pistols, do you like external safeties? What type of trigger do you like or prefer?


After reading this, I watched a youtube video of a 92FS field strip and I guess I miss read the comment. Because it definitely seemed easy (at least on the other side of the computer screen). However It just seems like a complex gun, to me never handling it, I want something that fires when I want it/need it too, break down easy, feels goods, and just plain works.... without breaking the bank. But i guess I understand what you are saying. Personal preference is key. I'm just worried about the quality of the gun, but I'm sure that my shop will guide me in the proper direction.

As far as safeties and trigger I really don't know I haven't shot them enough to find out what I like and don't like. I guess was I was referring to was the idea of some of them. i.e the Glock trigger safety (it almost seems pointless to me), the XDm grip safety (again seems pointless and just awkward). As far as triggers, again the Glock and XDm trigger safety, The M&P trigger (having that "split" trigger (or whatever you want to call it), and the 92FS and PX4 (the first pull being longer than the others (Double Action/ Single Action))


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

jbultman said:


> After reading this, I watched a youtube video of a 92FS field strip and I guess I miss read the comment. Because it definitely seemed easy (at least on the other side of the computer screen). However It just seems like a complex gun, to me never handling it, I want something that fires when I want it/need it too, break down easy, feels goods, and just plain works.... without breaking the bank. But i guess I understand what you are saying. Personal preference is key. I'm just worried about the quality of the gun, but I'm sure that my shop will guide me in the proper direction.


You are worried about the quality of the gun, after reading what we've said about it?

And......don't always assume that your gun shop will give you sage advice or lead you in the right direction. Some of the most mis-guided people I've met, worked in gun shops.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> You are worried about the quality of the gun, after reading what we've said about it?
> 
> And......don't always assume that your gun shop will give you sage advice or lead you in the right direction. Some of the most mis-guided people I've met, worked in gun shops.


sorry, Gun*s*... I was speaking in generalities not specifically the 92FS. I know their track record, its evident being around since what, the mid 80's?

Then what, go for my own knowledge (or lack of), what feels the best, and what? Forums from uninvolved persons such as yoursefl? BTW thanks for all the help so far


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Granted, it's not the most economically priced gun out there right now, but from what you said you are looking for, and wanting in a gun, the 92FS should fit your needs perfectly. 

If you want a double-action only gun, there's the 92D. No safety to mess with, and it has a rather long, but consistent trigger pull.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

jbultman said:


> After reading this, I watched a youtube video of a 92FS field strip and I guess I miss read the comment. Because it definitely seemed easy (at least on the other side of the computer screen). However It just seems like a complex gun, to me never handling it, I want something that fires when I want it/need it too, break down easy, feels goods, and just plain works.... without breaking the bank. But i guess I understand what you are saying. Personal preference is key. I'm just worried about the quality of the gun, but I'm sure that my shop will guide me in the proper direction.
> 
> As far as safeties and trigger I really don't know I haven't shot them enough to find out what I like and don't like. I guess was I was referring to was the idea of some of them. i.e the Glock trigger safety (it almost seems pointless to me), the XDm grip safety (again seems pointless and just awkward). As far as triggers, again the Glock and XDm trigger safety, The M&P trigger (having that "split" trigger (or whatever you want to call it), and the 92FS and PX4 (the first pull being longer than the others (Double Action/ Single Action))


Well, in my opinion you have a pretty good idea concerning the different platforms, which is a good thing. Most if not all the pistols you've mentioned are of high quality, so you should be able to scratch that from your lack of knowledge list. You are right again when you say personal preference is the key. So, at this point the best thing to do is try them if you can. All the pistols mentioned fit your wants if you become accustomed with the platform they present. It's arguable that striker fired pistols are easier to master due to the somewhat light consistent trigger pull(most, but not all). It's likewise arguable that DA/SA's are more forgiving due to the first DA pull, and the ability to decock the pistol on a live round in the chamber and as well can be mastered. There are give and takes on the different platforms, for example Glocks have no external safeties and give you a consistent 5.5 pound trigger pull on each shot, they are always ready to go when chambered. XD's and XDM's incorporate grip safeties for a reason, can you guess why, or research why? Some S&W's M&P's have external safeties some don't. What is your cup of tea? You won't truly know until you yourself take a sip. BTW, as far as the 92FS and Storms with the decoker/safety mechanism, due to the first DA trigger pull I prefer to always leave the safety in the off position as a habit, but many don't. They are not complex, levers up exposing the red dots = fire, levers down covering the red dots = safety.


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## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

If you want easy, accurate, reliable, inexpensive: Ruger.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Smith and Wesson M & P
Glock 17
Beretta PX4
Springfield XDm
Taurus PT-92 or or Beretta 92FS
Ruger SR9

Of the guns on your list, I own four of them, or variations thereof: the Glock 17, three M&P's, an XD40 (I know, it's not the XDm), and the Taurus 92AF. And I have handled and fired the Beretta 92FS. Now for the personal oponions.

Of these, the M&P has the best feel and ergonomics. It also has a low bore-to-axis which aids in sight alignment and natural pointability. It absorbs recoil excellently, if that is a concern, and its grip can be altered with the included back strap inserts. Next up would be the Glock 17. If it were only for total workability and reliability, the Glock 17 would take first place. It is only behind the M&P for one reason: the M&P's remarkable ergonomics. Both of these guns are very easy to disassemble and clean with the edge going to the Glock.

Then the Beretta. As I mentioned, I have a Taurus 92AF, but the Beretta is more polished and refined. My problem with the Beretta is me, not the gun. I don't care for double action pistols for self defense guns, preferring instead DAO. And it is heavier than the two mentioned in the first paragraph. But it is a fine piece and does feel good in the hand even though it has a higher bore-to-axis.

Then the XD. Good gun and a proven gun. My biggest problem with it is its bore-to-axis and for me, it is not a natural pointer. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with it.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> Smith and Wesson M & P
> Glock 17
> Beretta PX4
> Springfield XDm
> ...


I do like the M&P alot, the trigger is the hesitant factor for me! I believe that I could get used to the jointed/split/hinged trigger but... still a little awkward, Opinions?

Have you shot the Sig P226? If, so opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

jbultman said:


> I do like the M&P alot, the trigger is the hesitant factor for me! I believe that I could get used to the jointed/split/hinged trigger but... still a little awkward, Opinions?
> 
> Have you shot the Sig P226? If, so opinions would be greatly appreciated!
> Thanks


You get use to the M&P trigger pretty quickly. Since it is a two stage trigger, somewhat like the Glock trigger, it is not usual unless you are not use to those triggers. It is very simple to make it smoother and have an overall better feel. The practical accuracy of the gun is very good to excellent (practical accuracy = gun and shooter combination). It is just a very natural feeling gun and comes up quick to target.

As for the split trigger on the M&P, I just don't know why Glock, Springfield XD's, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson M&P have to have a safety tang on their triggers. I don't see why this seems to be a good thing. I say this because if you get something in or around the safety enough to depress it, then the trigger is going to be depressed as well. The internals of the gun have sufficient safety components to render the gun safe if it is dropped. I just don't see the need for that trigger safety, but that is a personal thing. The M&P two stage trigger does not have as crisp a break as does the Glock trigger, unless you install the Apex hard sear. Then it is almost 1911-like in its break.

Yes I have fired the Sig Sauer P226 and it is a sweet gun. However, I shoot the M&P and my gen3 Glock 23 better than the Sig so that pretty much rules out the Sig for me. The one I shot was a double action and I am not found of double action pistols. I have owned a number of them in the past but currently only own one.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> As for the split trigger on the M&P, I just don't know why Glock, Springfield XD's, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson M&P have to have a safety tang on their triggers. I don't see why this seems to be a good thing. I say this because if you get something in or around the safety enough to depress it, then the trigger is going to be depressed as well. The internals of the gun have sufficient safety components to render the gun safe if it is dropped. I just don't see the need for that trigger safety, but that is a personal thing. The M&P two stage trigger does not have as crisp a break as does the Glock trigger, unless you install the Apex hard sear. Then it is almost 1911-like in its break..


Well said, I completely agree, this trigger nonsense from the major companies, is well... nonsense!

I think that I've decided to shoot the following:

Smith and Wesson M&P9
Sig Sauer P226 
Beretta 92FS
Glock 17
Beretta PX4

Any ideas for what to look for when they are actually in my hand? pulling the trigger, accuracy, overall performance, ease of disassembly.. And how will I decide which ones better? tighter grouping, feel, trigger, accuracy....

I just don't want to get this first gun purchase wrong, if that makes any sense.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

For a first gun purchase, you cannot go wrong with the Beretta 92FS or the Sig P226. 

All 1st gun purchasers should have such a tough choice..............:smt083


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I have 4 of these and I like the XDM the most. It is very accurate and shoots without a hitch. I bought the XDM 3.8. My 2nd Choice is the Glock 17 as it is a fine weapon at a good price, followed by the M&P it shoots well too. The 92FS shoots true to aim but to put night sights on it requires a good gun smith and it will run you about 300 to buy and put the sights on. I find the Glock to be very reliable and to be the most durable with night sights on it.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

you didn't have the sig in your original list. Your list is growing,lol.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

shaolin said:


> I have 4 of these and I like the XDM the most. It is very accurate and shoots without a hitch. I bought the XDM 3.8. My 2nd Choice is the Glock 17 as it is a fine weapon at a good price, followed by the M&P it shoots well too. The 92FS shoots true to aim but to put night sights on it requires a good gun smith and it will run you about 300 to buy and put the sights on. I find the Glock to be very reliable and to be the most durable with night sights on it.


One thing that puts me off from the xdm is the trigger and grip safety? I just dont like idea of it... How are they when your holding the gun and firing it?



pic said:


> you didn't have the sig in your original list. Your list is growing,lol.


 Ya, ya, ya... Hey it happens, and I think I can make an exception for such a well beloved gun!


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

jbultman said:


> Well said, I completely agree, this trigger nonsense from the major companies, is well... nonsense!
> 
> I think that I've decided to shoot the following:
> 
> ...


That's not a bad candidate list at all. As to the triggers... With two stage triggers on the range (Glock, M&P), take up the slack of the first stage, also called pre-travel, until you hit the "wall" of the second stage. Then slowly pull through the second stage to fire the gun. If you start from the first stage and just pull all the way through, then you risk "slapping" the trigger and the most common result is shooting low. Once you gain familiarity with the gun and start to train with differing scenarios, your trigger work will change. Some determining factors are reliability, practical accuracy, and mechanical functionality.

Reliability. With a defensive arm, this is the absolute most important factor. If the gun doesn't go bang when it is suppose to, then nothing else matters. Various factors can affect reliability and one common one is the shooter's grip on the gun. So pay attention to using a proper grip.

Practical accuracy. This is the accuracy of the shooter/gun combination. All guns have inherent accuracy but when you introduce a shooter into the mix, things change. If the gun feels good in your hand, if you don't have to fiddle with it when you draw it or pick it up to get a good grip on the gun, then you probably have a gun that is going to be more natural to you and therefore, better practical accuracy.

Mechanical functionality. This addresses the controls on the gun. The slide stop, the magazine catch, any external safeties or decockers. All of these controls need to be considered. Are they located in such a manner that employing them is easy and natural for you? Are they in locations that might be inadvertently activated by something outside of the gun, such as an extended magazine catch (release)? Are there just too many of them and in the extreme conditions of an extreme encounter may be confusing to operate? Consider all of these and then add to this how you might carry this gun in light of its mechanical controls.

As for disassembly, that is only part of the field stripping equation. Once the gun is disassembled, how easy is it to clean the internal parts? Are there a lot of them? Are they accessible for a good cleaning? Anything "strange" or unusual about disassembling and reassembling the gun that may cause you concern? Do you need any objects or tools to field strip the gun (screwdriver, cartridge rim, etc.)? Are there a lot of small parts that are removed during a field strip or just the most basic parts (slide, barrel, guide rod assembly, frame)?

Hope this helps.


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## BigUgly (Apr 3, 2013)

Don't overlook or under rate, as many have, the SigPro 2022. Inexpensive, or at least they were, great trigger and outstanding performance right out of the box.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> That's not a bad candidate list at all. As to the triggers... With two stage triggers on the range (Glock, M&P), take up the slack of the first stage, also called pre-travel, until you hit the "wall" of the second stage. Then slowly pull through the second stage to fire the gun. If you start from the first stage and just pull all the way through, then you risk "slapping" the trigger and the most common result is shooting low. Once you gain familiarity with the gun and start to train with differing scenarios, your trigger work will change. Some determining factors are reliability, practical accuracy, and mechanical functionality.
> 
> Reliability. With a defensive arm, this is the absolute most important factor. If the gun doesn't go bang when it is suppose to, then nothing else matters. Various factors can affect reliability and one common one is the shooter's grip on the gun. So pay attention to using a proper grip.
> 
> ...


WOW!! That helps alot, well tons

I called my shop today and of the ones that I'm looking at they have, in stock and available to demo;

Smith and Wesson M&P9 Sheild (not sure if they have the full size)
Sig Sauer P226 (not in stock nor available (currently sold out)
Beretta 92FS
Glock 17
Beretta PX4

Hopefully I'll, depending on the circumstances, be able to get out there next week!!! Excitement is brewing. So after research and forum discussion; I believe now that my list is, in this order;

Beretta 92FS
Sig Sauer P226
Smith and Wesson M&P9 
Glock 17
Beretta PX4

But as we all know, that could all change when I get them in my hand and able to shoot. Kinda bummed about the P226, I was really looking forward to that one because of the reviews everyone was giving them. O'well maybe it will be in stock when the time comes (or special order...)



BigUgly said:


> Don't overlook or under rate, as many have, the SigPro 2022. Inexpensive, or at least they were, great trigger and outstanding performance right out of the box.


Yea why so? have't heard any thing about that Sig from anyone yet


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

The Sig P2022 is known as the "poor man's Sig" as it is hundreds less than other offerings from Sig Sauer. This in no way means it's junk... it's just Sig's budget poly model which replaced the Sig Pro. 

I've shot it and am impressed as far as it's price point. I do prefer the P226 or P220 and feel if you can wait & save up... you'll be happier in the long run.

My advice would be to pick up the Beretta 92 (since it's in stock) and start saving for the P226 when it becomes availible. Both are similar in function and trigger pulls... if you become proficient in one, you will quickly adjust to the other. Takedown methods are similar as well (both incredibly easy). Lots of aftermarket support as well.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

TAPnRACK said:


> The Sig P2022 is known as the "poor man's Sig" as it is hundreds less than other offerings from Sig Sauer. This in no way means it's junk... it's just Sig's budget poly model which replaced the Sig Pro.
> 
> I've shot it and am impressed as far as it's price point. I do prefer the P226 or P220 and feel if you can wait & save up... you'll be happier in the long run.
> 
> My advice would be to pick up the Beretta 92 (since it's in stock) and start saving for the P226 when it becomes availible. Both are similar in function and trigger pulls... if you become proficient in one, you will quickly adjust to the other. Takedown methods are similar as well (both incredibly easy). Lots of aftermarket support as well.


Alright that makes sense... I like the idea of getting the Beretta 92FS then looking into the Sig P226 when it becomes available... But now I'm going to to throw another idea into the mix!! I am thinking about getting my CCW. What about getting a smaller 9mm that i would use for that, and getting used to that then looking into the Sig P226 when it becomes available? Yes, No. Gun Ideas (I'm just throwing ideas around)?


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

In my personal opinion, you would be better served by learning, practicing and becoming proficient in the fundamentals with a full size handgun.

You most likely will want a smaller firearm for everyday CCW... but you shouldn't be learning fundamentals on a subcompact or "pocket" handgun. The full size will make an excellent learning, home defense gun and will be an enjoyable range gun as well.

After you spend some time with a full size handgun, maybe your second purchase could be a dedicated CCW (smaller) firearm instead of the Sig P226. You will learn a lot about what you like or dislike from spending time with your first firearm.

I still think you will absolutely love the P226... but maybe start out with the Beretta 92 and move into a Nano, P238/938 or Shield next.

I feel every new gun owner should become proficient in their firearm before deciding to get a CCW and carry it... and take a good Handgun 1 type class... learn good skills, and practice what was learned often.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

TAPnRACK said:


> In my personal opinion, you would be better served by learning, practicing and becoming proficient in the fundamentals with a full size handgun.
> 
> You most likely will want a smaller firearm for everyday CCW... but you shouldn't be learning fundamentals on a subcompact or "pocket" handgun. The full size will make an excellent learning, home defense gun and will be an enjoyable range gun as well.
> 
> ...


Yea I see what you are saying, and that makes sense!! I'm going to try and not let my heart decide what I want to get before I shoot them and have that influence it. We'll see on Monday, that's the day I'm going to the range to ultimately decide what one. Still in this order though..... 
Beretta 92FS
Sig Sauer P226
Smith and Wesson M&P9 
Glock 17
Beretta PX4

But that could all change


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

Hey all, I decided on the m&p... Glock just didn't feel right, I didn't like the SA/DA of the Beretta and the XDm was ok but I kep hanging the web of my hand up on the safety. Thanks again for the advice, I've ran about 300 rounds through it so far, its been flawless and I know made the right choice


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

jbultman said:


> One thing that puts me off from the xdm is the trigger and grip safety? I just dont like idea of it... How are they when your holding the gun and firing it?
> 
> Ya, ya, ya... Hey it happens, and I think I can make an exception for such a well beloved gun!


You don't notice the trigger or grip safety and the extra insurance will give some peace of mind. The accuracy is very very good. My 3.8 XDM out shoots the full size Glock and M&P and if I need to conceal it then I use the 13rd mag or 19 rd when I want more or target shooting. My other favorite 9mm is my Sig P228 as I bought it used for $350 and it is very accurate. It is a toss up between those two but I would say the Sig is better made.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

shaolin said:


> You don't notice the trigger or grip safety and the extra insurance will give some peace of mind. The accuracy is very very good. *My 3.8 XDM out shoots the full size Glock and M&P* and if I need to conceal it then I use the 13rd mag or 19 rd when I want more or target shooting. My other favorite 9mm is my Sig P228 as I bought it used for $350 and it is very accurate. It is a toss up between those two but I would say the Sig is better made.


You should qualify this statement to indicate that for you, your 3.8 XDM out shoots YOUR full size Glock and M&P. Remember, what works for Jim is not necessary going to work for Bob.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

jbultman said:


> Hey all, I decided on the m&p... Glock just didn't feel right, I didn't like the SA/DA of the Beretta and the XDm was ok but I kep hanging the web of my hand up on the safety. Thanks again for the advice, I've ran about 300 rounds through it so far, its been flawless and I know made the right choice


Congratulations. You selected a truly fine pistol in the M&P series. Which one did you get? What is the barrel length? You do know you don't need to fiddle with that little lever in the mag well to remove the slide from the frame, don't you? And keep this in mind. M&P's tend to get dirty magazines pretty quickly and if they get too dirty, they can cause some failures, such as failing to go to slide lock. This is a very minor thing, but I disassemble my M&P mags that I use after every trip to the range and clean them. It's quite simple and worth it. My M&P 9 Pro Series gets shot a lot, when ammo is available, and I am very happy with it. That gun will not be sold or traded from my collection.

One other thing. How's your trigger? Is here any grittiness in stage one (the pre-travel)? If there is, a simple fix is available for your gun and makes a HUGE difference. Let me know and I'll tell you what to do.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> For a first gun purchase, you cannot go wrong with the Beretta 92FS or the Sig P226.
> 
> All 1st gun purchasers should have such a tough choice..............:smt083


I agree with the statement above - these big size guns provide the lightest recoil (using ft lbs of energy per ounce of gun)
but for a CCW you loose weight and gain recoil 
beretta px4 storm or the S&W shield would be good choices for the smaller end


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> Congratulations. You selected a truly fine pistol in the M&P series. Which one did you get? What is the barrel length? You do know you don't need to fiddle with that little lever in the mag well to remove the slide from the frame, don't you? And keep this in mind. M&P's tend to get dirty magazines pretty quickly and if they get too dirty, they can cause some failures, such as failing to go to slide lock. This is a very minor thing, but I disassemble my M&P mags that I use after every trip to the range and clean them. It's quite simple and worth it. My M&P 9 Pro Series gets shot a lot, when ammo is available, and I am very happy with it. That gun will not be sold or traded from my collection.
> 
> One other thing. How's your trigger? Is here any grittiness in stage one (the pre-travel)? If there is, a simple fix is available for your gun and makes a HUGE difference. Let me know and I'll tell you what to do.


Hey I decided to get the "Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm Carry and Range Kit" (Product: Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm Carry and Range Kit) it has the 4.25" barrel, and I did figure out that you don't need to fiddle with the "lever" to remove the slide and do a field strip. I haven't noticed the magazines getting dirty, but I'll disassemble them and take a look. As far as the trigger, it is ok. There is a some grittiness in the stage one. What "simple fix" you were referring too? I've heard about the Apex DCEAK trigger?

Now I just need to find some more 9mm rounds less than .70 cents...


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

jbultman said:


> Hey I decided to get the "Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm Carry and Range Kit" (Product: Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm Carry and Range Kit) it has the 4.25" barrel, and I did figure out that you don't need to fiddle with the "lever" to remove the slide and do a field strip. I haven't noticed the magazines getting dirty, but I'll disassemble them and take a look. As far as the trigger, it is ok. There is a some grittiness in the stage one. What "simple fix" you were referring too? I've heard about the Apex DCEAK trigger?
> 
> Now I just need to find some more 9mm rounds less than .70 cents...


I have the Apex DCAEK in my M&P 45 4" barrel. It includes the USB, the hard sear, and a set of springs. I removed their trigger spring and re-installed the factory OEM spring because the trigger spring that comes with the DCAEK increases the trigger pull weight too much for my liking (6.5 pounds). The stock spring takes this back down to 5 pounds.

I would just start out with the APEX USB (Ultimate Safety Block). That little gem will completely eliminate that gritty pre-travel making the entire trigger feel smoother. Then if you really want, you can install the hard sear to get an almost 1911-like crisp break.


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## tntviper1 (Apr 20, 2013)

jbultman said:


> One thing that puts me off from the xdm is the trigger and grip safety? I just dont like idea of it... How are they when your holding the gun and firing it?
> 
> Ya, ya, ya... Hey it happens, and I think I can make an exception for such a well beloved gun!


smooth as a babys butt, i really like it i was in your boat, i went to the range tried each gun that felt good in my hand. then fired them. bought the XD9

also i am curious why you cant go to the LGS for a few months????? money? age? or something more ?


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

You do have to admit that the M&P series is one of the best looking pistols out there. And they are great shooters, too.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> I have the Apex DCAEK in my M&P 45 4" barrel. It includes the USB, the hard sear, and a set of springs. I removed their trigger spring and re-installed the factory OEM spring because the trigger spring that comes with the DCAEK increases the trigger pull weight too much for my liking (6.5 pounds). The stock spring takes this back down to 5 pounds.
> 
> I would just start out with the APEX USB (Ultimate Safety Block). That little gem will completely eliminate that gritty pre-travel making the entire trigger feel smoother. Then if you really want, you can install the hard sear to get an almost 1911-like crisp break.


USB? .... If you would do it again would USB or the DCAEK kit?



tntviper1 said:


> smooth as a babys butt, i really like it i was in your boat, i went to the range tried each gun that felt good in my hand. then fired them. bought the XD9
> 
> also i am curious why you cant go to the LGS for a few months????? money? age? or something more ?


Haha Well..... I blew up my foot, broke 9 bones playing basketball with the kids, 3 surgerys so far contained to the couch. I got a roller-aid (wheeled-stool) and said screw it and went to the range


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## tntviper1 (Apr 20, 2013)

jbultman said:


> USB? .... If you would do it again would USB or the DCAEK kit?
> 
> Haha Well..... I blew up my foot, broke 9 bones playing basketball with the kids, 3 surgerys so far contained to the couch. I got a roller-aid (wheeled-stool) and said screw it and went to the range


ouch i broke my leg in 2 places, dislocated my ankle and severed a tendon jumping for a ball hit over my head (i pitch)
good thing it wasnt about black helicopters  i hate those things

hope you have a good recovery 
P.S. go shot the XD you will be happy i think


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

jbultman said:


> USB? .... If you would do it again would USB or the DCAEK kit?
> 
> Haha Well..... I blew up my foot, broke 9 bones playing basketball with the kids, 3 surgerys so far contained to the couch. I got a roller-aid (wheeled-stool) and said screw it and went to the range


I installed an Apex USB (Ultimate Safety Block) in my M&P 9 Pro Series and my M&P 40. They are fine with just this mod. I usually recommend that people start with the USB and then if they want to improve their trigger, install the Apex hard sear. Those two items will do wonders for the M&P trigger.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> I installed an Apex USB (Ultimate Safety Block) in my M&P 9 Pro Series and my M&P 40. They are fine with just this mod. I usually recommend that people start with the USB and then if they want to improve their trigger, install the Apex hard sear. Those two items will do wonders for the M&P trigger.


Then whats the difference from the DCAEK? Springs that make the trigger pull heavier? But thanks I think I'm going to order the USB, is it hard to put in? the hard sear, difficulty of application too? I wouldn't assume too hard but I want to make sure that with no experience (minus the little field strip and cleaning) in gunsmithing that I can do it with out taking it to the shop? I have plenty of time on my hands, at least for the next 3-5 weeks ha


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

jbultman said:


> Then whats the difference from the DCAEK? Springs that make the trigger pull heavier? But thanks I think I'm going to order the USB, is it hard to put in? the hard sear, difficulty of application too? I wouldn't assume too hard but I want to make sure that with no experience (minus the little field strip and cleaning) in gunsmithing that I can do it with out taking it to the shop? I have plenty of time on my hands, at least for the next 3-5 weeks ha


Are they simple to install? Yes, providing you have some experience along these lines. In your case, I would suggest getting them from a good gun shop and have them do the install at purchase time. Many shops won't charge for this if you buy the parts from them. There are videos out there on the web that cover these installs, the best of which are by Randy Lee at Apex Tactical. As for the DCAEK components, check out the Apex website to see what comes with it. I didn't care for the trigger spring that comes in that kit because it increases the pull weight of the trigger. For duty and carry, some people want this but I don't want a heavy trigger for my carry guns. I prefer 4.5 to 5 pounds for my carry gun triggers. That's what I train with and that's what works for me. Others have different preferences and that's fine.

The crispness of the Apex hard sear is very impressive. It really is almost 1911-like. I mentioned that this is what I have in my M&P 45. If that was my primary carry gun, I would probably not have the hard sear in it, but would most definitely use the USB.

Let me add that I did the install of the USB in my M&P 9 Pro and my M&P 40, but I also have the tools with which to do this... specifically a sight pusher. You do not just want to bang on the rear sight to remove it.


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## jbultman (Mar 26, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> Are they simple to install? Yes, providing you have some experience along these lines. In your case, I would suggest getting them from a good gun shop and have them do the install at purchase time. Many shops won't charge for this if you buy the parts from them. There are videos out there on the web that cover these installs, the best of which are by Randy Lee at Apex Tactical. As for the DCAEK components, check out the Apex website to see what comes with it. I didn't care for the trigger spring that comes in that kit because it increases the pull weight of the trigger. For duty and carry, some people want this but I don't want a heavy trigger for my carry guns. I prefer 4.5 to 5 pounds for my carry gun triggers. That's what I train with and that's what works for me. Others have different preferences and that's fine.
> 
> The crispness of the Apex hard sear is very impressive. It really is almost 1911-like. I mentioned that this is what I have in my M&P 45. If that was my primary carry gun, I would probably not have the hard sear in it, but would most definitely use the USB.
> 
> Let me add that I did the install of the USB in my M&P 9 Pro and my M&P 40, but I also have the tools with which to do this... specifically a sight pusher. You do not just want to bang on the rear sight to remove it.


Alright well, in that case I'll call the shop by my house and see what they can do!!
Thanks


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## donk123 (Jun 6, 2013)

for good quality at an affordable price, ruger all the way. if you don't mind the extra size/weight,price, beretta all the way. everyone who has used my s&w m&p .45 says it is their favorite. glock g19 gen4 is my favorite. if price is not an issue and you can handle a wider grip, sig all the way. you can't go wrong on that list, it's up to your preference.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

I own 2 SR9's they are very nice versitale and accurate guns. I will not say they are good for the money because thatimplies they are only good because they are cheap and that is not the case. I also own a large variety of other brands of handguns as a matteer of fact all of the ones you mentioned except the XDm's and taurus. I have shot the taurus 92 and I own a Berreta 92FS. The Taurus is a good gun, I am not swayed by the folks who are Berreta purests I am only swayed by personal evaluations or that of close and respected friends. 

That said If I were to tell anyone I know what their forst 9mm should be on my short list and at the very top would be a CZ 75b or d if a decocker is prefered. It is hard to fnd a better more reliable well made 9mm then the 75. Good luck anyway you go shoot the gun and learn to use it correctly. Buy a good holster. I am oftentimes puzzled that folks will spend good $$$$ on a quality hand gun and put it in a 20 holster. Enjoy your new weapon which ever way you go!!

CG


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## boze (Oct 21, 2013)

Funny, I read this whole thread and never got a chance to cast my noob vote for the M&P 9. But then you found it on your own. I'm eyeing the range kit as a great value purchase too although all the 10rd ones that I'm limited to are also stuck with the heavier trigger. 

Enjoy and safe shooting!


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