# How are you able to carry concealed ?



## shoot4fun (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't have a concealed carry permit, but am thinking about getting it. The problem is here in Ohio all the stores have signs posted on the doors that say no firearms.
I have alot of friends that have permits but, don't carry because of this. Are most businesses in other states like this ? Thanks Dan


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Depends on the state. Some, like yours, are set up where the signs carry legal weight. Others, the signs carry legal weight only if they meet certain requirements such as location and letter size. In other states, like Florida here, the signs mean nothing unless they are redundantly posted on places that are already on the no carry list.


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

Take a look thru this site. It should give you the information you need...

Handgunlaw.us


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

In my state, they can have forty signs.....the worst that can happen, is they ask you to leave...if you don't, you get a trespassing citation...I basically ignore all signs, and if asked to leave, I will....and never patronize their place again...usually I won't patronize anyone who has a sign posted, but sometimes you miss them.....


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

berettabone said:


> In my state, they can have forty signs.....the worst that can happen, is they ask you to leave...if you don't, you get a trespassing citation...I basically ignore all signs, and if asked to leave, I will....and never patronize their place again...usually I won't patronize anyone who has a sign posted, but sometimes you miss them.....


Exactly how it is here. They see it, they ask you to leave. You do, no problem. You don't, they call the police and you get criminal trespass.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

If that's the case in Ohio, or with many establishments there, this allows law abiding citizens to be unarmed and unable to defend themselves and others while allowing armed criminals to have a free pass. I don't believe an armed criminal will abide by not entering the gun free zones, but will relish in it.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I neither advocate illegal activity, nor being a scofflaw, but...
"Concealed is concealed."

You need to make your own decisions on this matter.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I neither advocate illegal activity, nor being a scofflaw, but...
> "Concealed is concealed."
> 
> You need to make your own decisions on this matter.


 Steve, my sentiments exactly, especially with the Aurora, Co., incident so freshly ingrained in our minds. It's not the law abiding citizens who lawfully carry concealed who pose the risk, but the armed criminal. Statistics overwhelmingly speak for themselves and if that were the case no state would have CCW. It still puzzles me in a state that allows CCW, no one in that theatre returned fire, but of course, I was not there and it may not have been feasible. Generally, those nut cases are cowards and i truly believe he would have ran in confronted w/ appropriate force, but one can never tell.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

We had an incident up here a few months back.....people were in the checkout line at an Aldi's....two guys came in to rob the place, and one guy had a sawed off....a guy standing in line, saw the guy with the shotgun, starting to wave the firearm around and stick it in a employee's face, and start to become aggitated....foolishness I know, but he had a Steyr 9mm, and since, apparently, didn't have one in the chamber, had to quietly rack the slide on his firearm, while he was in line(I know). They didn't notice(idiots), and he ended up shooting both of them.....one of them ran out of the store, and lived..the one with the shotgun, was shot in the chest and head...where in the head, I don't know, but he lived also...so much for the caliber wars.....the store had no firearms postings, so, he ignored the postings, and carried in anyway....he wasn't prosecuted for ignoring the signs, but he is still trying to get his firearm back...they're saying that they need it for evidence, but his attorney stated that they could just take a picture of it, along with the serial number, and return his firearm....the legal battle still goes on..............


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

I agree with the "concealed is concealed" argument! If I'm carrying in a place that has some BS sign (not government establishments, etc.), and I have to protect myself, my Family or some innocents from some gun toting idiot so be it! I will deal with the fallout that will undoubtably follow. I would rather have my lawyer deal with it than our family funeral director!


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

In those states like FL that the signs carry no legal weight and you don't leave if asked,remember that the trespass charge you recieve is a felony,you are now a criminal so to say and your civil rights are gone.Just leave and tell them loud enough for others to hear you will not support their store since they have no security,it's obvious their patron's money is all they want and could care less about their safety if they get robbed.


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## pasportyxlc (Sep 21, 2012)

Here in Pa. we have an open cary state (except for Philly)along with CC. There is a club that holds OPEN CARRY meetings in a different place each time and from what I hear they are generally welcome at most places they go. I am thinking of joining them as I think it's good to get people that dont know anything about firearms and carrying them a chance to ask questions as well as get used to the Idea. Philly was challanged a while back on open carry and when it made it to court the guy won and got a small settlement. unless its a federal Bld. or a place Im not supposed to carry according to my CC permit rules I do what I feel is right and keep it to myself.BTW great fourm......


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## rjrudolph (Oct 12, 2012)

Wow he literally just possibly saved that employees life if not many others and they have to keep his gun for evidence. Sounds like a crock of shit to me.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

berettabone said:


> ...[H]e had a Steyr 9mm...and he ended up shooting both of them...the one with the shotgun, was shot in the chest and head...but he lived...o much for the caliber wars...



...But, ah, if he'd only had a .45! :smt083 :anim_lol:


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Such signs are pretty rare in Virginia so our choices about which businesses get our dollars are excellent.


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## specter (Jul 24, 2006)

If you are carrying concealed, nobody knows you have it unless a situation calls for it. IF that happens, be glad you have it and who cares what the store policy is... at least you had the gun when you needed it.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Harryball said:


> Take a look thru this site. It should give you the information you need...
> 
> Handgunlaw.us


This is a great resource!

Its so frustrating though! Some states do not honor my permit! Some states allow "force of law" by private citizens posted signs!!! What is this world coming to? Just going to have to use my best judgement I guess. Like other posters said, that aurora incident really opened my eyes to the importance of carry. Before I just thought I was kinda a gun nut.


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## usmcj (Sep 23, 2011)

All due respect... and I'm NOT a lawyer.....

Indiana is a "shall issue State", regarding licenses/permits. "No Guns" signs do NOT carry the weight of law in Indiana, outside those places that Indiana Code currently forbids firearms carry... schools, aircraft, courthouses, etc. The property owner may only ask you to leave, and refusal may generate a trespass charge.



rex said:


> In those states like FL that the signs carry no legal weight and you don't leave if asked,remember that the trespass charge you recieve is a felony,you are now a criminal so to say and your civil rights are gone.Just leave and tell them loud enough for others to hear you will not support their store since they have no security,it's obvious their patron's money is all they want and could care less about their safety if they get robbed.





> A misdemeanor trespassing is essentially a criminal offense but not at the same level of a felony. It also depends on what you're doing on the property. If you're just hanging out with no intention of committing a crime, it is still considered a misdemeanor trespassing offense. If you enter onto a property with the intent of committing a crime and carry out the crime you might be charged for misdemeanor trespassing and felony burglary.


Misdemeanor Trespassing - MisdemeanorGuide.com


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

In March of this year, U.S. Sen. John Thune[R-S.D. introduced the " Respecting States' Rights and Concealed Carry Recipricity Act of 2012" The Second Amendment protects our right to carry firearms. It shouldn't be constrained by state boundary lines. This would allow you to carry in any state that issues conceal carry licenses similar to your state or holder. I am not sure if they have decided what "similar" would be yet. Hopefully, it will go far enough to get a vote, and even better, end up a law.QUOTE=jakeleinen1;271768]This is a great resource!

Its so frustrating though! Some states do not honor my permit! Some states allow "force of law" by private citizens posted signs!!! What is this world coming to? Just going to have to use my best judgement I guess. Like other posters said, that aurora incident really opened my eyes to the importance of carry. Before I just thought I was kinda a gun nut.[/QUOTE]


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

usmcj said:


> A misdemeanor trespassing is essentially a criminal offense but not at the same level of a felony. It also depends on what you're doing on the property. If you're just hanging out with no intention of committing a crime, it is still considered a misdemeanor trespassing offense. If you enter onto a property with the intent of committing a crime and carry out the crime you might be charged for misdemeanor trespassing and felony burglary. [/URL]


That is true,but that's misdemeanors.No mention of armed tresspass,that's a felony enywhere I know.If you're asked to leave for this discussion,it's because you were made and the cops probably know before they get there.Leave when you're told,this is where you don't throw a fit or political discussion.I'd say goodbye and I guess my money's more important than any of your customer's safety,have a good day-IF I said more than bye.If you refuse in somebody's business,it's like you're at their house,it's their property to do as they will within the law.We did get an employer's parking lot for employees exempted,but a busness owner rules the facility.


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## Bowhunter57 (Nov 25, 2006)

shoot4fun said:


> I don't have a concealed carry permit, but am thinking about getting it. The problem is here in Ohio all the stores have signs posted on the doors that say no firearms.


shoot4fun,
I highly recommend getting your permit. The amount of education that you will get in the course is well worth taking the class. Ohio's concealed law states that you must not be able to tell if you're carrying...SO, nobody knows except YOU.

Also, most of the trouble that you may run into isn't going to be the location, as much as it is between point A and B. It may depend on what type of establishments you're visiting too.



berettabone said:


> We had an incident up here a few months back.....people were in the checkout line at an Aldi's....two guys came in to rob the place,...


berettabone,
STOP...I don't know what you may've been told in your CCW class, but we were given strict instructions that in the event of an armed robbery we were NOT to get involved in stopping it. Stopping the robbery is the job of law enforcement. Unless your life is threatened (circumstances vary) we were told to not attempt to stop the robbery. Each state may instruct or handle this situation differently. :smt102

However, if the robber (s) fire their weapon, at any time or for any reason, everything changes. When you have a clear shot and can draw your weapon undetected, the robbers are fair game. :smt071



Todd said:


> Exactly how it is here. They see it, they ask you to leave. You do, no problem.


Todd,
Like I stated earlier, this may very from state to state, but the weapon MUST be concealed. In other words, NOT visible to others around you. If it's visible, either by printing (outlined in the clothes) or "peaking" from under a shirt/jacket, it's not considered concealed.

Carrying concealed into a posted establishment is an individual choice. However, it gets discovered that you were carrying, things could go very bad (legally) for that person. The establishment owner's opinion may vary, due to circumstances (someone's life being saved), but it's a chance that the person carrying takes.

Bowhunter57


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## Backlighting (Jul 2, 2012)

Here in Nevada u can open carry and also have a handgun, hidden or in plain view, in your vehicle.


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## T-55A5 (Apr 27, 2011)

Here in Texas we can conceal or open carry

Most places have signs saying a concealed handgun is ok as long as you have a permit..not including government establishments....so it depends on the state

I call in advance to see what the CCW rule is before I carry..ie:: hotels, department stores (even through Target does has a sign), etc

Billy


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## qwiksdraw (May 11, 2012)

T-55A5 said:


> Here in Texas we can conceal or open carry
> 
> Most places have signs saying a concealed handgun is ok as long as you have a permit..not including government establishments....so it depends on the state
> 
> ...


In Texas you can only open carry a long gun, you can NOT open carry a handgun.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

When someone sticks a shotgun in your face, I don't know what else you think is needed to protect yourself...wait until he shoots? Ridiculous.


Bowhunter57 said:


> shoot4fun,
> I highly recommend getting your permit. The amount of education that you will get in the course is well worth taking the class. Ohio's concealed law states that you must not be able to tell if you're carrying...SO, nobody knows except YOU.
> 
> Also, most of the trouble that you may run into isn't going to be the location, as much as it is between point A and B. It may depend on what type of establishments you're visiting too.
> ...


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## T-55A5 (Apr 27, 2011)

qwiksdraw said:


> In Texas you can only open carry a long gun, you can NOT open carry a handgun.


Your right...got the law backwards... glad I found that out now through I have never tried outside the home, but around here 80% of the stores do allow a concealed handgun as long as you have a permit and I still check on places like hotels

Billy


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## T-55A5 (Apr 27, 2011)

qwiksdraw said:


> In Texas you can only open carry a long gun, you can NOT open carry a handgun.


Your right...got the law backwards... glad I found that out now through I have never tried outside the home, but around here 80% of the stores do allow a concealed handgun as long as you have a permit and I still check on places like hotels

Billy


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## CaptAhab (Aug 30, 2012)

denner said:


> Steve, my sentiments exactly, especially with the Aurora, Co., incident so freshly ingrained in our minds. It's not the law abiding citizens who lawfully carry concealed who pose the risk, but the armed criminal. Statistics overwhelmingly speak for themselves and if that were the case no state would have CCW. It still puzzles me in a state that allows CCW, no one in that theatre returned fire, but of course, I was not there and it may not have been feasible. Generally, those nut cases are cowards and i truly believe he would have ran in confronted w/ appropriate force, but one can never tell.


The reason there was no return fire is that the theater in question was a " GUN FREE ZONE " no guns allowed. The killer had 5 theaters closer to his residence playing the same movie ( including the largest one in Colorado ) but did not go into them. No one knows if he specifically passed those because there might be an armed citizen but I sure would not doubt it.

The only legal choice the patrons had was to cover their loved ones and pray.


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## Nanuk (Oct 13, 2012)

I agree with Steve, concealed means concealed. 

I also agree with BB in that, when someone threatens me with Shotgun, I am going to engage him as soon as I can and shoot him to the ground.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

T-55A5 said:


> Here in Texas we can conceal or open carry
> 
> Most places have signs saying a concealed handgun is ok as long as you have a permit..not including government establishments....so it depends on the state
> 
> ...


Calling ahead is never a good idea. The likelihood of getting a correct answer is small when you do this. Don't put the idea in their mind to post a sign if it is not already posted. You just don't know who you are going to get when you call and what their particular take of armed customers is going to be.


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## Bowhunter57 (Nov 25, 2006)

berettabone said:


> When someone sticks a shotgun in your face, I don't know what else you think is needed to protect yourself...wait until he shoots? Ridiculous.


berettabone,
Agreed!

Every situation is or can be different and it's strictly left up to the individual to decide. Everyone has a different point of stress that will determine what action they will take to defend themselves. Good training can/will help with these decisions. :smt1099

Bowhunter57


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow,completely forgot this thread.Farfignugen (yeah,spelling) :watching: Nah Popcornsmilie

Sorry,couldn't resist that.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

That's odd...in your last post, you said it was law enforcements job to stop a robbery.......well, they weren't there, and you also said that you shouldn't shoot unless they fire....so, which is it?


Bowhunter57 said:


> berettabone,
> Agreed!
> 
> Every situation is or can be different and it's strictly left up to the individual to decide. Everyone has a different point of stress that will determine what action they will take to defend themselves. Good training can/will help with these decisions. :smt1099
> ...


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## Bowhunter57 (Nov 25, 2006)

berettabone said:


> That's odd...in your last post, you said it was law enforcements job to stop a robbery.......well, they weren't there, and you also said that you shouldn't shoot unless they fire....so, which is it?


It is law enforcements job to stop a robbery, but if your life is being threatened that's when it's up to the individual to defend themself.

The situation that I was given was being in a gas station and someone walks in and starts to rob the place. If I'm in the back of the store, I should call 911 and stay out of sight, until help arrives. However, that changes if you are spotted and become part of the robbery. This was the suggestion of my instructor.

Staying out of sight and/or not getting involved, in reality, could be two entirely different things. Let's face it, a million scenerios could be played out, but what actually happens and how each person reacts to it makes for far too many possibilities.

Bowhunter57


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## tacman605 (Oct 11, 2012)

Gun buster signs and personal property rights have been and are debated furiously.

Generally the federal government leaves it up to the states to decide. Same thing with employers who do not allow their employees to carry firearms. Whether they post for liability reasons or personal choice it is still there property. Some states like Wisconsin address this issue in their statutes exempting the employer from liability if they choose to allow their employees to carry a firearm and any acts resulting from the employee. I do not know if this would/could be extended to customers entering with a firearm or acts caused by them I don't think I would want to be the test case though.

Remember though by legal definition you are not a customer you are an "Invitee" when you enter and the status of invitee is only valid as long as you follow the business owners request. Businesses owned by an individual or corporate entity are private property and they have the right to say what comes onto that property as long as it does not violate the discrimination laws of the protected classes.

If a business is posted and carries the weight of law and you decide to carry you simply face the consequences should you be discovered if they don't carry the weight of law do whatever you think is best. It all depends on how you view the business owners rights.


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