# What's "high-cap" to you?



## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

I hear a lot about high-cap mags. I understand the concept (a lot of rounds), but what do you consider high-cap? Where's the threshold, or is it simply a higher-cap mag than the gun's stock cap? I personally think it's more than AWB limit (10 rounds)


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Any Snail type Mag would be considered a high cap mag. 32 or more rounds.


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## mvslay (May 6, 2007)

Obviously, many jurisdictions define it as more than ten.

In my opinion a little more context is needed. For CCW 11 or more in anything over a .357 Sig or .40 S&W is high cap. In the lesser calibers I believe over 13 constitutes a highcap. THis is just my personal opinion.

When you're talking IPSC high cap is anything over 10 plus an extended base pad. I shoot a Para without a base pads (until next week that is!). It carries 14 + 1 wich is not high cap for that sport in my opinion. The guys I shoot mostly have .40's because the advantage of extra capacity, plus they have extended base pads. I'm really new at IPSC. With my 14 round mags I have to do reloads as much as the Production shooters sometimes (they can only load ten in that class).

In my AR I only consider over 30 rds high cap since the 30 rd is standard for the weapon.

Yeah I know it's not PC, but it is my opinion on the topic.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

Good topic. I'd like to suggest that anything greater than the factory standard would constitute high capacity. Of course, this varies with the firearm.

It always bugs me when people refer to a standard (say) 12 round magazine as a "hi-cap" magazine just because hobbled 10 round magazines are available for those of us in states that require them. Seems like giving in to the anti-gun hype to call the design capacity "high capacity". Just my reasoning though.

Now calling it a "hi-cap CLIP", now that really bugs me. :smt033


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

Factory spec is "regular" or "standard" capacity. Thus, 19 rounds in a Glock is "standard," not "high." Magazines designed to hold less than standard (such as 10-rounders for Glocks) are "reduced capacity" magazines.
F___ Charles Schumer.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree with *milquetoast*. I just call the normal factory mags "full cap."


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## dogngun (May 29, 2006)

IMO, the "Hi Cap" label came from the anti gunners. The 15 round 9mm has been around since the 1930's and the HiPower, and the first American TDA 15 round pistol came about in the 1970's, the S&W Model 59. Most auto pistols till then had mag capacities of 7 or 8 rounds.
Remember, till the change began in the US in the 1970's, with the introduction of the S&W Model 39 (8 round mag) and later the S&W Model 59 (15 round mag) most LEO's carried revolvers.
The BG's followed suit in changing to autos, then double stack "Hi Cap" autos, then the rappers made the concept widely known, TV and movies picked up on it, and the pistols designed for police work became "evil", and targets for political opportunists.

Sorry for the long post...Just had a large cup of Chinese tea.

mark


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

dogngun said:


> IMO, the "Hi Cap" label came from the anti gunners. The 15 round 9mm has been around since the 1930's and the HiPower, and the first American TDA 15 round pistol came about in the 1970's, the S&W Model 59. Most auto pistols till then had mag capacities of 7 or 8 rounds.
> Remember, till the change began in the US in the 1970's, with the introduction of the S&W Model 39 (8 round mag) and later the S&W Model 59 (15 round mag) most LEO's carried revolvers.
> The BG's followed suit in changing to autos, then double stack "Hi Cap" autos, then the rappers made the concept widely known, TV and movies picked up on it, and the pistols designed for police work became "evil", and targets for political opportunists.


I remember gun magazines referring to "high capacity 9mms" well before the anti-gunners latched onto the "assault weapons" hysteria in the late '80s. I think it may be a phrase we brought on ourselves more than anything. Of course, compared to a 1911 or a revolver, a Glock 17 or a SIG P226 is _higher_ capacity. I think by that standard the phrase is fairly descriptive. Anyway, I don't think we'll win the gun debate on semantics.



> Sorry for the long post...Just had a large cup of Chinese tea.


Long post? That's a midget post by my epic standards. I run on Army coffee, my man, not Chinese tea! :mrgreen:


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## PanaDP (Jul 20, 2007)

I live in California so, by necessity, anything over 10 is high cap to me. When I got my XD from my Dad, though, shooting those 16 round mags didn't feel "high capacity" to me. It was nice.


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## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

It was probably as Mike alluded to, a marketing buzzword that has been tainted to have a negative connotation these days.


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> I remember gun magazines referring to "high capacity 9mms" well before the anti-gunners latched onto the "assault weapons" hysteria in the late '80s.


High-capacity AFAIK originally referred to double-stack mags. As a double-stack 9mm could easily hold twice the ammunition of a single-stack .45 of the same height, the "wonder-nines" became known as high-capacity handguns. That got twisted by the antis ("who needs 18 rounds in a defensive handgun? It only takes one!") who set an arbitrary limit with the AWB. Among them was sadly Mr. Ruger, who said that he never intended his high-capacity magazines for the Minis to be available to ordinary citizens, and argued in favor of a cap limit. It's ironic that very few factory-issue magazines would have been affected if the limit had been Ruger's suggestion of 15 rounds.


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## Maximo (May 26, 2006)

I agree with Mike, high capacity, is probably a phrase gun owners brought upon ourselves. I tend to use the terms standard capacity, high capacity, and socialist capacity (Gov. mandated round limits). 
Example 
Beretta 92fs Standard capacity 15 rd mag
High capacity 30 rd extended mag
Socialist capacity 10 rd mag


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## Glockamania® (Dec 21, 2006)

In CA law, it's 10+.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

My standard mags hold 8. My range mags hold 10 as that's what I call them. When I go to Orlando I have two range mags on my belt. I have never hear a man that survied a gun fight say he had to much ammo.


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## oldscot3 (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm with Liko81, high cap to me means a wider handle for double stack mags that could hold 14 or be the exact same size and only take 10.


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## MetalMan52 (Dec 15, 2007)

*hi cap*

I agree with points from several of the above posts. I think the term originated with gun writers as a good thing but has been used to imply a negative feature in the general press. To me the word "high" is one of those relative, undefined terms that can be twisted to show whatever you want. For example a 5 round clip is high capacity compared to a single shot and so on. Where does a WWI Luger pistol with a factory snail drum fall?
Just my two cents.
Pat


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

High capacity is when the round count weight exceeds the gunslingers ability to sling. Up to that point it is just right capacity.:mrgreen:

:smt1099


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## jimg11 (May 17, 2006)

When I went to Glock Armorer school in 1991 I was shown a small part that had to be in any magazine sold in New Jersey to cut the capacity from 17 to 15. This was before the AWB Jim


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

High cap is antigun political leglislation implemented in some states based on a mistaken belief that a handgun with fewer rounds in the mag is somehow less lethal/safer than the standard cap.

Which has more firepower, 3 mags of 10 rounds each or 2 15-round mags? I'm not aware of a limit on how many mags you can carry, much less a limit of loose bullets in your pocket for revolvers.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Hi-cap, IMO, would be anything that could not be fit into the handle of the gun without changing it's shape or size. So a mag that stuck out the bottom or required a handle extension would be hi-cap. Shorter followers that allowed more catridges to be jammed into the mag could entail a hi-cap magazine, but I wouldn't really consider something hi-cap unless it went beyond the stock dimensions of the gun. I would think for the most part, gun manufacturers engineer factory magazines to hold as many as possible without changing its size. My P99c holds 8 rounds, and unless the mag is longer, it can't hold any more than that. So for me, 8+ is hi-cap. You can get +3 followers for my P22, but it still uses a factory magazine and doesn't change overall dimensions, so I wouldn't consider it hi-cap.


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## teknoid (Mar 12, 2007)

Anything belt-fed?


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## Python1969 (Jan 28, 2008)

Liko81 said:


> I hear a lot about high-cap mags. I understand the concept (a lot of rounds), but what do you consider high-cap? Where's the threshold, or is it simply a higher-cap mag than the gun's stock cap? I personally think it's more than AWB limit (10 rounds)


+1

To me, anything over 10 rounds is high capacity. It would be nice if we considered high capacity "standard capacity" regardless of the amount but since that last ban, anything higher than 10 was considered high capacity. Any boy did some gun shops and online stores raise those prices:smt076


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## Python1969 (Jan 28, 2008)

Just thought of something else;

10 round capacities or less should be called "neutered capacity" if they could truly hold more. Granted we've got our beloved 1911's and revolvers.


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## sheepdog (Aug 23, 2006)

Having been used to 7-rd .45 clips....my 8-shot Ruger clips are hi-caps...


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