# Which one?



## Vinny1 (Jan 24, 2017)

I may be in the market for a Cheap new or used 1911ish gun. The closest thing I have right now to a 1911 is a Sig P938.
A local pawn shop has a couple of interesting guns. The first is a Ballester-Molina in .45 for $399.00. I know it isn't exactly a 1911 but close. It is in Very good condition with the original grips. The only thing that concerns me is that there is play(if you shake the gun side to side it rattles) in the slide to frame. The barrel and bushing are tight. I don't know if this is a deal breaker or not. Like I said very good condition with very little holster wear. The other is a Para Ordinance .45 Double stack in stainless Full size $499.00. This gun also is in very good condition without the rattle.

What do ya'll think?

Vince


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Vinny1 said:


> I may be in the market for a Cheap new or used 1911ish gun. The closest thing I have right now to a 1911 is a Sig P938.
> A local pawn shop has a couple of interesting guns. The first is a Ballester-Molina in .45 for $399.00. I know it isn't exactly a 1911 but close. It is in Very good condition with the original grips. The only thing that concerns me is that there is play(if you shake the gun side to side it rattles) in the slide to frame. The barrel and bushing are tight. I don't know if this is a deal breaker or not. Like I said very good condition with very little holster wear. The other is a Para Ordinance .45 Double stack in stainless Full size $499.00. This gun also is in very good condition without the rattle.
> 
> What do ya'll think?
> ...


I would stay away from the Ballester-Molina as far as I know they are no longer in business. Finding parts may be a problem. At least for me that would be a deal breaker.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

You should be able to find a new Rock Island Armory 1911 in that same price range. The RIA 1911 is a really good entry level 1911. I have a full size one and love it. It is not my only 1911, but I wouldn't get rid of it. They are built like a tank. Very functional, and reliable.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

The Ballester-Molina is a collectors' item. It was the Argentine military-issue, slightly cheaper version of the Colt's 1911.
Parts are not interchangeable. (Well, maybe some parts are, but I'm not sure.)

Were I a collector of 1911s and its clones, I'd buy it for my collection.
But for a reliable shooter, I'd probably look elsewhere.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Like MoMan said, there are plenty of real 1911 models to choose from brand new in those price ranges from $399 to $499. Most any of the Philippine gun makers like Armsor, Rock Island, ATI and a few more fall right in there. Turkey also exports some decent inexpensive 1911 models. I think the base Tisas Zig sells for $399 if you look around and there are several others like the Regent R100 1911. Two blocks up the street from me a local gunshop has a case full of ATI 1911's starting at $449 in both full size Government and Commander length. I've got a wonderful Remington R1 Enhanced and they also make the Government Mil-Spec R1 version for around $599, made here in the US.

Hickok45 Video on the $399 Tisas:






Hickok45 Vidio on the $449 ATI:


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## Vinny1 (Jan 24, 2017)

Well I went back today and looked at the Para again. Its a Canadian built gun. Two tone, black slide with stainless frame. Looks to be in good condition but needing a good cleaning. The price on the sticker is $499.00. I asked what is the best he could do, expecting $25 off and then try to get him to $450.00. Well he surprised me by saying $400.00 No tax out the door!

I have seen reviews that were bad. Are they really bad? There has to be someone on here that knows. What is it worth?

Full size, Double stack, two tone, Plain grip safety, Plastic trigger(first thing to go), Tight and not beat up. Only one mag and no box.


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

Two things to consider about the Para. Many people say the Canadian units are/were better than the guns made after the facilities were moved to the U.S.. If you consider the Para, there are two things to keep in mind: 1)Remington has announced the discontinuation of the Para label. It is unclear whether or not they will continue the line as a re-badged Remington product. 2) The "lifetime warranty" does not cover the older Para Ordnance products, so if you have a problem (unlikely on the older guns) you may have to stand the cost of repair.

Those things being said, I have an older Para Ordnance P14-45 I used to run in IPSC, and it is probably one of the two most accurate guns I own. It is certainly my favorite .45, even though it weighs in at 38oz empty. Mine was manufactured, and purchased, in 1993, and is one of those units NOT covered by the "lifetime warranty."

Depending on the condition, the Para could be a very good buy at that price. Do you know the serial number of the Para. Given the serial number you should be able to get an approximate mfg date.

Good luck with your decision.

BTW - with the exception of the frame and the magazines, I have found 1911 Series 70 parts to be pretty much a drop-in proposition.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Vinny1 said:


> Well I went back today and looked at the Para again. Its a Canadian built gun. Two tone, black slide with stainless frame. Looks to be in good condition but needing a good cleaning. The price on the sticker is $499.00. I asked what is the best he could do, expecting $25 off and then try to get him to $450.00. Well he surprised me by saying $400.00 No tax out the door!
> 
> I have seen reviews that were bad. Are they really bad? There has to be someone on here that knows. What is it worth?
> 
> Full size, Double stack, two tone, Plain grip safety, Plastic trigger(first thing to go), Tight and not beat up. Only one mag and no box.


I think the Para models were pretty decent but have a mixed reputation, especially the early models, but Remington bought the company and I've heard nothing from them since. I might expect a parts issue down the road, especially the wide models. But again, why are you considering used non-typical 1911 variants from a pawn shop when you can buy a quality brand new real 1911 pattern from a gun store for the same kind of money? Does he have a picture of you out on the town with a goat?  Are you selling something to him for the funds? Maybe you just like pawn shops. I don't get it.

I'm not a fan of Taurus, but would consider their 1911a. I saw one brand new at a shop around a month ago selling for $499 for the standard model brand new. I'd sure pick that up before blowing $400 on a used gun with no warranty and in suspect condition.


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## Vinny1 (Jan 24, 2017)

Well what's wrong with buying used? I am trying to consider what's best for my money. What is that rock island or Tisa or whatever else made in a third world country going to be worth compared to a name brand version (even though gone now) in the future. Best I can find on the Web is the Para was around $800 new. I even checked sold listing on Gunbroker and found this gun is still valued around $550. And that one was listed as fair.
I'm just looking for info on these pistols to help make a decision. And that Pawn shop also sells new guns. And locally there is no such beast as a $400 NEW 1911. A new rock is $499.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Vinny1 said:


> Well what's wrong with buying used? I am trying to consider what's best for my money. What is that rock island or Tisa or whatever else made in a third world country going to be worth compared to a name brand version (even though gone now) in the future. Best I can find on the Web is the Para was around $800 new. I even checked sold listing on Gunbroker and found this gun is still valued around $550. And that one was listed as fair.
> I'm just looking for info on these pistols to help make a decision. And that Pawn shop also sells new guns. And locally there is no such beast as a $400 NEW 1911. A new rock is $499.


To each their own. I'm not sure Turkey or the Philippines are third world countries, but none the less, they've been selling in the US like hot cakes and so far have a great reputation for being pretty solidly built. The nice part is they are pretty close to a pure 1911 pattern. That means interchangeable parts and upgrades forever from most anyone. And the warranty on a new firearm has to be worth something. Armscor has been around a while and make a lot of things in the US. I don't expect them to vanish any time soon. Paying $499 for a new Rock Island seems like a deal to me.

On the other hand, that Para you're looking at may be a good one for you. The price seems reasonable if it shoots well. I owned a Para double stack for a few months from back when they first moved to NC. It was a fine gun, but the grip was just too wide to be comfortable the way I hold a 1911, so I sold it. In your case, I'd first check to make sure you can find a reasonable source to buy two or three additional magazines. That might put you over the cost of the Rock Island right there and the RI can use regular 1911 mags like the excellent Mec-Gar mags at around $18.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

A well-cared-for, used gun is a much better value than is any similar new one.
All of our guns, save only two, were bought (or received as gifts) used.

The key concept is "well-cared-for."
If you are not expert in the field, a good idea would be to have the prospective purchase surveyed by a decent gunsmith.
A reputable gun shop would be willing to give you return privileges, if you would then use the purchase money to buy some other gun in their stock.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

One thing to keep in mind when you buy *anything*! You get what you pay for in most cases.

In the long run it might cost you less if you buy a Ruger or maybe even a Sig 1911. 
Ruger has for ever customer support, even if you bought used. I believe Sig does the same for the original purchaser.
(Study up on it, I'm sure there are more that do too).

I bought a top name brand with a one year warranty. NEVER AGAIN!
It was problematic and back at the factory for the second time when the warranty was almost out. 
Their CS was a real headache to deal with. NEVER AGAIN!

Customer Support, more important than money IMO.
Just food for thought....

Sam


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## Vinny1 (Jan 24, 2017)

Well I have about talked myself out of the Para. Maybe more trouble or potential trouble than what its worth. I have read nightmare stories about them. Grips are limited as are triggers. I'm not wanting to spend much but I don't want to buy online on this one but Rocks are $100 higher than on line! Crazy. Well it isn't a big deal I'll figure out what I'm wanting to do.

Thanks


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## Vinny1 (Jan 24, 2017)

I went a little different direction. I found a place that had surplus Star B pistols for $239.00. I have always wanted a Star but at one time they were relatively hard to find in 9mm. Most are in Largo (A) which is now hard to find and expensive. I took a chance and I think I came out good. I picked it up Monday and it was in very good condition and shoots good. This thing has a very slick smooth action and is still tight. Bluing is about 90%. The grips are ugly brow plastic but I have ordered some walnuts to replace them. I also picked up a extra extractor just in case. If anyone is interested I got it from Sarco.com. So far I'm very pleased.

Vince


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## Lefthandgun (Oct 21, 2017)

Finding the right gun can be a pain sometime. Did you try Galleyofguns.com. They usually have some pretty good deals. I know I can get the 3in Philippines version for arond $400. You can also try Gunbroker.com. Great deals there. I have seen micro 9 Kimbers going for $425. I just received my new win, a brand new in the box Remington R1 blued commander mil-spec for a grand total of $453. Cost,shipping, transfer fee. Can't beat that with two sticks tied together. You just have to look around. There are deals out there. For an all around use pistol you can't beat the tried and true Beretta 92. Or the Taurus version. You can find surplus 15 round mags. And 9mm is a lot cheaper to shoot than .45.


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

Rock Island GI model runs around $400ish. Very solid basic 1911.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

Look at a Ruger SR1911. Not a bad gun. Ruger has excellent CS too.


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## Hammer (Apr 10, 2018)

I have a para do not have anything bad to say about it. Shoots great and very accurate. My Springfield trp full size another very accurate and fun to shoot. Remember that you can buy right you can always upgrade parts.


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