# Arguments in favor of open carry?



## Glock17

We don't have open carry in my state. Seems like a bad idea tactically - that you're tipping your hand to the bad guys. Also the possibility of someone taking it. From what I've seen a lot of people are made uncomfortable by it. 

What are arguments in favor of it?


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## Cait43

While there are pro's and con's to this issue, the Bill of Rights, as written, make it clear it was meant to be allowed..... :smt1099

As we all know the 2nd amendment along with others has been watered down over time mostly for political reasons... :smt076


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## win231

It satisfies the craving for attention for those who need it.


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## SouthernBoy

I carried openly almost exclusively for 7 1/2 years and only had one bad experience. That was from a customer in a local MacDonald's who claimed he was a retired LEO, but judging from his accent, he was definitely not a native Virginian. I OC'd in restaurants, grocery stores and all kinds of private businesses, libraries, state government facilities, police stations, and a host of other places... all with absolutely no problems.

Open carry in Virginia is the normal mode of carrying a sidearm, whereas concealed carry is the exception and requires a permission slip from our employees. When I was doing this I got a lot of comments, nearly all of which were positive and supportive. My rig was simple and not at all flashy or designed to be attention-getting. However I went to full concealed carry in January 2015 and have continued to conceal my sidearm since then, except when in a vehicle where it is openly carried for easy and quick access.

I completely support both modes of carrying a sidearm and believe it is the decision of the individual to take.


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## pblanc

The only time I would be inclined to open carry, even if it were legal, would be when out in a very rural area. If I lived in a State and an area in which open carry was very prevalent and even considered "the norm", I might reconsider. Otherwise, I really don't care for anyone to know I am carrying a handgun, except at a range.


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## Goldwing

I cannot argue in favor of open carry. Proper concealed carry techniques will greatly decrease the chances of someone trying to take your weapon or to single you out while committing a crime.

GW


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## desertman

The problem of not allowing for open carry is that if under any circumstance someone can tell that you are packing heat you could get arrested. At the very least have your concealed weapons permit revoked. In many states a concealed carry permit means just that CONCEALED carry. The only time that I might deliberately open carry is when I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Never while I'm out in public going about my daily business. I don't even open carry at home or on my own property. Nobody's gotta' know, not the neighbors, the postman, delivery man or anybody else that might pass by or come to my door. Although it's not unusual to see people on occasion openly carrying in an open carry state such as Arizona. Since permit less concealed carry became legal here you don't see too much of it anymore. At one time open carry was the only legal way to carry in Arizona.


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## kaboom99

win231 said:


> It satisfies the craving for attention for those who need it.


^This

From my expierence, I have met very few people that regularly open carry that are well-adjusted people.

While there is a time and place for open carry such as walking trails outside of town where there's more threats than just two legged Critters, anyone that open carries while walking around shopping at a grocery store is not smart. On top of it putting one at a huge tactical disadvantage, it's both rude and demonstrates a lack of empathy for others around you.

With all of this being said, yes, it should be legal because it's your constitutional right. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. It's my constitutional right to tell my neighbor that his wife is one of the dumbest people I've ever met in my life, but I would never do that just like I would never walk around Walmart with a Glock 19 on my hip and three spare magazines.


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## win231

As others have said, open carry is fine in rural areas or in the middle of nowhere. People who like open carry are not interested in carrying in those places because they're not likely to be noticed by many people - which means they would lose the attention & passive aggressiveness they so desperately need.


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## Longhorn1986

win231 said:


> As others have said, open carry is fine in rural areas or in the middle of nowhere. People who like open carry are not interested in carrying in those places because they're not likely to be noticed by many people - which means they would lose the attention & passive aggressiveness they so desperately need.


Au contraire mon ami! I like OC, but don't do it often and almost never in urban areas, simply because the hassles outweigh the benefits. Out in the rural parts of my county, I OC because I know it won't draw attention and it's easier to carry. I wish it were less of an attention getter, but at 6'6" & 290#, I already draw enough attention for my taste.


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## desertman

win231 said:


> As others have said, open carry is fine in rural areas or in the middle of nowhere. *People who like open carry are not interested in carrying in those places because they're not likely to be noticed by many people* - which means they would lose the attention & passive aggressiveness they so desperately need.


In Arizona it's not so much of intentionally wanting to draw attention to one's self as most people are used to seeing it and could care less. It really isn't any big deal. I've yet to see anyone point fingers, whisper, stare or give dirty looks at someone who's openly caring a sidearm while going about their daily business. About the only people that might get all bent out of shape over it are those that are visiting or have not lived here very long. Even though I don't do it, I thank God I live in a state that allows it for the reason I mentioned in my post #7. Most of the time when you see someone open carrying is when they step out of their vehicles to gas up or run into a convenience store for some quick items, mostly ranchers with horse trailers. Sometimes you'll see biker's open carrying while on their motorcycles as the wind often blows open their vests exposing their sidearm. I've yet to see anyone openly carrying a long gun in public, though that too is perfectly legal here. That I'm sure would get people's attention. I couldn't imagine walking into a supermarket with my AR or MAC 10 draped over my shoulder.

About the only time I've ever seen someone get unwanted attention was in the supermarket when some idiot came waltzing in, shaved head with a full facial tattoo that looked like a skull. His neck was tattooed with vertebrae and God only knows what other kind of crap? There was a girl with him and she was having a ball watching people's reactions. He scared the living hell outta' my wife. They just picked up a few things and left. I've never seen them again. Can you imagine going on a job interview looking like that?


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## MoMan

I'm not a fan of OC. But, I do believe it should be a personal decision. Here in Kentucky OC is legal, no permit required. If you want to CC a CCDW permit is required. I have my CCDW, but it is nice knowing that unlike NYS, I won't get arrested or have my permit revoked if I happen to be in my yard, and someone sees my handgun peak out under my shirt while I'm reaching for something. Like I said, I don't OC, but it should be each person's own decision to make.


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## Cait43

win231 said:


> As others have said, open carry is fine in rural areas or in the middle of nowhere. People who like open carry are not interested in carrying in those places because they're not likely to be noticed by many people - which means they would lose the attention & passive aggressiveness they so desperately need.


Granted there are those that open carry for the reasons you state however to lump all open carriers in your reasoning is not right..........


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## SouthernBoy

kaboom99 said:


> ^This
> 
> From my expierence, I have met very few people that regularly open carry that are well-adjusted people.


My experience in my state has been just the opposite of yours.



kaboom99 said:


> While there is a time and place for open carry such as walking trails outside of town where there's more threats than just two legged Critters, *anyone that open carries while walking around shopping at a grocery store is not smart*. On top of it putting one at a huge tactical disadvantage, it's both rude and demonstrates a lack of empathy for others around you.


This is a very generalized statement. Have these people had their IQ's tested. Have they gone through a battery of tests to determine their level of general knowledge?



kaboom99 said:


> With all of this being said, yes, it should be legal because it's your constitutional right. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. It's my constitutional right to tell my neighbor that his wife is one of the dumbest people I've ever met in my life, but I would never do that just like I would never walk around Walmart with a Glock 19 on my hip and three spare magazines.


I must say that I wouldn't want to live in your state if this is the commonly held belief about our civil liberties. A lot of patriots died in the founding of this nation and those liberties are very precious to most of us. There is a difference between civility and liberty. Being civil to others, your example of your neighbor's wife, does not sacrifice one's liberty.

I could spend a few pages of text here describing the positive comments from a wide variety of people that I received when I was open carrying on a regular basis. Look at it this way. Police open carry so what is the difference if a citizen does this? Police don't have the right to carry when in the performance of their duties. They have the authority to do this which they get from us; We the People. We, on the other hand DO have the right to carry as we see fit (at least in most states).

I chose to go to concealed carry over three years ago, except in vehicles and a few other places and situations, for reasons which I deem important and in my best interests. None of these reasons were driven by any trouble I caused, fear I may have induced, or inconsideration I could have created because none of this happened. But then, this is Virginia and the place were it all began. Some of that patriotic fever remains in us natives.

The way I see it, there is no difference between carrying a sidearm openly or a cell phone openly in its pouch. One is a phone and one is a gun but both are tools. And as I said, I fully support both modes of carry since to do otherwise would be disingenuous on my part.


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## SouthernBoy

Cait43 said:


> Granted there are those that open carry for the reasons you state however to lump all open carriers in your reasoning is not right..........


It's also not true.


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## SouthernBoy

I would like to clarify a few "facts" that are lacking in credence.

*You will be the first target in a [fill in the blank] when OC'ing.*
Were this a fact, you can bet you'd hear about it on most news channels since most news outlets have a strong leaning to the left and an anti-gun/anti-armed defense response. In other words, this almost never takes place. The one exception would be an active shooter/terrorist situation but then those types are looking for body counts.

*Your gun is sure to be taken from you when OC'ing.*
This has happened but it is rare. Again, the news would be all over this if it were common, to prove that carrying is never a good idea.

*You will cause panic and fear and the police will drive you to the ground with guns drawn.*
Possibly in a few places in the country but then those places probably don't allow OC in the first place. In states where open carry exists, I would bet this is also pretty rare. I know it is extremely rare here.

*You will create MWAG calls every time you step outside while OC'ing.*
I can't speak for other states or locales, but in mine this is also extremely rare. I did have it happen to me once and the caller "stretched" the truth quite a bit. It was in a Wegman's grocery store and the officer who approached me was clearly embarrassed that he was going to waste my time. He took all of maybe less that two minutes to tell me about the call and we chatted and laughed a little with the cashier. Then he apologized for bothering me and walked away. We have a lot of people here from the northeast and I would bet the call came in from one of them.

*OC'ers are nothing more than attention hogs.*
I don't doubt for a minute that this is true with some of them. But I have been around hundreds of these folks and I can tell you that most all were just normal people who had taken the decision to go armed openly most of the time. I have run into a few who, judging from their rigs, were pushing things a bit (think thigh holster rig). But most all kept things simple and unobtrusive in their choice of gun, holster, and carry.

When I go out and about, my carry rig is simple, effective for me, and hidden. It can be easily switched to open carry for when I am in a vehicle and then I just put my shirt tail over it for concealed carry. If it shows slightly when I bend over to get something in a store, I don't need to worry since open carry is the norm here. The only other times I open carry is on occasion when gassing up one of my vehicles and always when going to the range I frequent. OC here is simply a no-brainer.


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## MoMan

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I do see Folks OC down here, and it's no big deal. Most are not looking for attention or anything else, just going about their business. I've even seen OC at outdoor festivals down here, no big deal. Most of the Folks I see OC are older, with very inconspicuous rigs. Some are younger, but still no big deal. I haven't seen on drop leg holsters, just your normal OWB and IWB rigs. No one down here "gasps" and says, "oh my God, there's a man with a gun over there!!". People just go on with their lives, and mind their own business. Even the Police don't even give them a double take.


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## Bisley

Laws banning open carry fall into the category of thousands of other laws across the country that have been passed. Opportunistic politicians discovered a long time ago that it is much easier for them to solve problems that don't actually exist than it is to try to solve problems that do exist. Since most voters do not have personal staffs that can research every issue, it is so much easier to just create problems from anecdotal evidence, and use political theater to sell solutions to them. It's like raising the minimum wage every four years - it solves nothing, but makes a whole new generation of teenage fast food workers feel loved, right before the next election.

Think about it - when open carry laws were enacted, 99.9% of the people were already not carrying weapons openly, so they didn't really care, unless they were Constitutional historians. It's the same with 'silencer' laws - who cared, anyway, back in the 1930's, except those who watched gangster movies and thought they were real?

They passed laws that were easy to pass, and got re-elected. It became their business. Now, years later, their successors defend those useless laws because useless laws are their business, too, and it is a very profitable business. The only politicians I trust (even if just a little bit) are the ones who want to repeal laws and fire bureaucrats.


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## SouthernBoy

MoMan said:


> I forgot to mention in my previous post that I do see Folks OC down here, and it's no big deal. Most are not looking for attention or anything else, just going about their business. I've even seen OC at outdoor festivals down here, no big deal. Most of the Folks I see OC are older, with very inconspicuous rigs. Some are younger, but still no big deal. I haven't seen on drop leg holsters, just your normal OWB and IWB rigs. No one down here "gasps" and says, "oh my God, there's a man with a gun over there!!". People just go on with their lives, and mind their own business. Even the Police don't even give them a double take.


That's how it is here, too.


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## desertman

Bisley said:


> Laws banning open carry fall into the category of thousands of other laws across the country that have been passed. *Opportunistic politicians discovered a long time ago that it is much easier for them to solve problems that don't actually exist than it is to try to solve problems that do exist.* Since most voters do not have personal staffs that can research every issue, it is so much easier to just create problems from anecdotal evidence, and use political theater to sell solutions to them. It's like raising the minimum wage every four years - it solves nothing, but makes a whole new generation of teenage fast food workers feel loved, right before the next election.
> 
> Think about it - when open carry laws were enacted, 99.9% of the people were already not carrying weapons openly, so they didn't really care, unless they were Constitutional historians. It's the same with 'silencer' laws - who cared, anyway, back in the 1930's, except those who watched gangster movies and thought they were real?
> 
> They passed laws that were easy to pass, and got re-elected. It became their business. Now, years later, their successors defend those useless laws because useless laws are their business, too, and it is a very profitable business. The only politicians I trust (even if just a little bit) are the ones who want to repeal laws and fire bureaucrats.


There are already thousands of laws that address both the criminal and negligent misuse of firearms, along with thousands of laws that address every conceivable criminal act imaginable. We don't need any more laws. However politicians have to pass even more laws to prove to their constituents that at least they're doing something. Otherwise why would we politicians in the first place? It's all about self preservation. In addition most politicians are lawyers, the more laws that are passed means more business for lawyers. It's great for their bottom line.


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## desertman

MoMan said:


> I forgot to mention in my previous post that I do see Folks OC down here, and it's no big deal. Most are not looking for attention or anything else, just going about their business. I've even seen OC at outdoor festivals down here, no big deal. Most of the Folks I see OC are older, with very inconspicuous rigs. Some are younger, but still no big deal. *I haven't seen on drop leg holsters, just your normal OWB and IWB rigs.* No one down here "gasps" and says, "oh my God, there's a man with a gun over there!!". People just go on with their lives, and mind their own business. Even the Police don't even give them a double take.


I've seen people using them a few times while going about their daily business. At least from what I've observed they don't get any unwanted attention either. No stares, glares or panic attacks from either law enforcement or the general public. People who don't live in states where open carry is allowed should at least try and understand that it's no big deal in states that have always allowed it. I expect that will change in the future as most people decide and for good reason that concealed carry is really the way to go. I've seen it already in Arizona as fewer and fewer people are openly carrying anymore. It's a double edged sword as fewer people open carry people will get accustomed to not seeing it which may cause some to panic at the sight of a civilian with a visible sidearm. This could lead to laws being passed to outlaw the practice altogether. Let's just hope that never happens or there could be many arrests for inadvertently exposing your sidearm as I'm sure many of us have done at one time or another.

In states where open carry is prohibited it could go like this: You've got your sidearm concealed and unbeknownst to you the end of the barrel is showing beneath your garment while you bend over to pick up a dropped set of keys. Some lady spots you in the parking lot, panics and calls the police, giving them a detailed description of you and your vehicle. The police pull you over, weapons drawn, and ask whether you are carrying a gun. You obligingly show them your hands and answer in the affirmative. The next thing is you find yourself on the ground handcuffed and subsequently arrested and charged with openly carrying a firearm. Sound's like fun, huh? People who oppose open carry should be careful of what they wish for.


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## SouthernBoy

desertman said:


> I've seen people using them a few times while going about their daily business. At least from what I've observed they don't get any unwanted attention either. No stares, glares or panic attacks from either law enforcement or the general public. People who don't live in states where open carry is allowed should at least try and understand that it's no big deal in states that have always allowed it. I expect that will change in the future as most people decide and for good reason that concealed carry is really the way to go. I've seen it already in Arizona as fewer and fewer people are openly carrying anymore. It's a double edged sword as fewer people open carry people will get accustomed to not seeing it which may cause some to panic at the sight of a civilian with a visible sidearm. This could lead to laws being passed to outlaw the practice altogether. Let's just hope that never happens or there could be many arrests for inadvertently exposing your sidearm as I'm sure many of us have done at one time or another.
> 
> In states where open carry is prohibited it could go like this: You've got your sidearm concealed and unbeknownst to you the end of the barrel is showing beneath your garment while you bend over to pick up a dropped set of keys. Some lady spots you in the parking lot, panics and calls the police, giving them a detailed description of you and your vehicle. The police pull you over, weapons drawn, and ask whether you are carrying a gun. You obligingly show them your hands and answer in the affirmative. The next thing is you find yourself on the ground handcuffed and subsequently arrested and charged with openly carrying a firearm. Sound's like fun, huh? People who oppose open carry should be careful of what they wish for.


Very well put.


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## desertman

SouthernBoy said:


> Very well put.


Thanks SB!

I just hope that those who oppose open carry yet carry concealed themselves give that a little thought. Although I don't choose to open carry myself, every time I see someone doing it I can only thank God I live in a free state that allows it. I hate using that word "allows" as the state has no business allowing a right granted to us by "our creator". Only "our creator" has that authority.


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## win231

Public safety is far more important than an expression of freedom. Open carriers who enjoy mingling with crowds do not use the same types of retention holsters as police officers; they use whatever friction-fit holster they have. Their gun is available to anyone who wants it - regardless of the buzz phrase, "situational awareness." That jeopardizes the safety of others & has resulted in gun thefts, deaths & injuries. Not worth the expression of freedom.
I have no problem with open carry in rural areas, on one's own property, hiking, etc. I have a problem with the idiots who like to stroll through crowded malls & supermarkets or the idiots in a group assembling at Starbucks for the same purpose - attention whoring.


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## desertman

win231 said:


> *Public safety is far more important than an expression of freedom.* Open carriers who enjoy mingling with crowds do not use the same types of retention holsters as police officers; they use whatever friction-fit holster they have. Their gun is available to anyone who wants it - regardless of the buzz phrase, "situational awareness." That jeopardizes the safety of others & has resulted in gun thefts, deaths & injuries. Not worth the expression of freedom.
> I have no problem with open carry in rural areas, on one's own property, hiking, etc. I have a problem with the idiots who like to stroll through crowded malls & supermarkets or the idiots in a group assembling at Starbucks for the same purpose - attention whoring.


You'd better be careful where you go with that. The same thing can be said regarding magazine and assault weapon's bans along with prohibiting the carrying of any sidearm outside your own private residence. Or even freedom of speech. Our adversaries always like to fall back on their "well if it's for greater good" type of arguments to subvert the Bill of Rights.

But for the reasons you've stated is why I'd never take the chance of openly carrying a firearm, no matter how small that chance may be. I've yet to hear of too many firearms being taken from those who choose to open carry at least not in the open carry state where I live. If there was you'd better believe we'd hear about it incessantly especially from a hostile news media that's doing everything in it's power to destroy or at the very least neuter the 2nd Amendment into obsolescence. As for attention whoring - I personally haven't seen too much if any of it. At least not in the way you've described it.


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## Glock17

Some interesting takes and perspectives, what I was really looking for was from a tactical standpoint - do you think there's any advantage to OC compared to CC?


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## kaboom99

Glock17 said:


> Some interesting takes and perspectives, what I was really looking for was from a tactical standpoint - do you think there's any advantage to OC compared to CC?


Biggest advantage - A faster and more accessible draw or simply the ability to easily carry a large weapon. While I'm sure there are people that CC guns as large or even larger than the 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk 357 that I open carry when when refilling my timed feeder in bear country, it's probably not too common.

Biggest disadvantage - The element of surprise does not exist.

There is a time and place for both from a tactical standpoint.


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## SouthernBoy

desertman said:


> Thanks SB!
> 
> I just hope that those who oppose open carry yet carry concealed themselves give that a little thought. Although I don't choose to open carry myself, every time I see someone doing it I can only thank God I live in a free state that allows it. *I hate using that word "allows" as the state has no business allowing a right granted to us by "our creator". Only "our creator" has that authority.*


Absolutely and completely agree with this.


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## SouthernBoy

win231 said:


> Public safety is far more important than an expression of freedom. Open carriers who enjoy mingling with crowds do not use the same types of retention holsters as police officers; they use whatever friction-fit holster they have. Their gun is available to anyone who wants it - regardless of the buzz phrase, "situational awareness." That jeopardizes the safety of others & has resulted in gun thefts, deaths & injuries. Not worth the expression of freedom.
> I have no problem with open carry in rural areas, on one's own property, hiking, etc. I have a problem with the idiots who like to stroll through crowded malls & supermarkets or the idiots in a group assembling at Starbucks for the same purpose - attention whoring.


I am reminded of Benjamin Franklin's famous thoughts in these regards. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". I much prefer to rest my trust in those who founded this nation rather than those who would trade their fine design for some temporary safety.


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## SouthernBoy

Glock17 said:


> Some interesting takes and perspectives, what I was really looking for was from a tactical standpoint - do you think there's any advantage to OC compared to CC?


Yes. In terms strictly reserved for tactical advantages, open carry has it all over concealed carry. Easier and quicker access to your sidearm, less encumbering to carry, and it affords a wider selection of handguns from which to choose for open carry use.


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## Cait43

SouthernBoy said:


> I am reminded of Benjamin Franklin's famous thoughts in these regards. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". I much prefer to rest my trust in those who founded this nation rather than those who would trade their fine design for some temporary safety.


What I believe he really meant was *in the end you end up with either........*

I against the mindset that just because one has a right to do it it does not mean they should........ As we are seeing by the watering down of the Bill of Rights by the federal and supreme courts the saying of use it or lose it taking its toll.... :smt1099


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## SouthernBoy

Cait43 said:


> What I believe he really meant was *in the end you end up with either........*
> 
> *I against the mindset that just because one has a right to do it it does not mean they should*........ As we are seeing by the watering down of the Bill of Rights by the federal and supreme courts the saying of use it or lose it taking its toll.... :smt1099


Me, too.

At what point does it end? Civility comes from high moral character coupled with integrity, honor, and dignity, and the natural controls a society places upon the populous. When those traits go lacking, the social fiber begins to break down and artificial controls (man-made laws) enter the picture. This has been taking place in earnest over the past nearly 60 years. And it is not by chance.


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## Bisley

win231 said:


> Public safety is far more important than an expression of freedom. Open carriers who enjoy mingling with crowds do not use the same types of retention holsters as police officers; they use whatever friction-fit holster they have. Their gun is available to anyone who wants it - regardless of the buzz phrase, "situational awareness." That jeopardizes the safety of others & has resulted in gun thefts, deaths & injuries. Not worth the expression of freedom.
> I have no problem with open carry in rural areas, on one's own property, hiking, etc. I have a problem with the idiots who like to stroll through crowded malls & supermarkets or the idiots in a group assembling at Starbucks for the same purpose - attention whoring.


You are expressing a logical inference which applies more to political activism than to the reality, based on actual knowledge of what has actually happened in the past. I don't disagree with using logical inferences to determine what I choose to do for my own safety, but I don't want any of my freedoms removed unless the historical facts prove that making another new law will solve the problem.

Most of the gun laws on the books, today, came from making such inferences about gun ownership and use, whereas there are actually dozens (if not hundreds) of other factors that impact the levels of violence at any particular time. These other 'non-gun' issues are never addressed, or even acknowledged, for the most part. We continue to make bad decisions about reducing violence, because all of the media focuses on 'gun crime,' to the exclusion of all other types of crime.

Our politicians have learned that they can avoid the hard work of solving social problems by jumping on the gun control bandwagon.


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## kaboom99

SouthernBoy said:


> My experience in my state has been just the opposite of yours.
> I must say that I wouldn't want to live in your state if this is the commonly held belief about our civil liberties. A lot of patriots died in the founding of this nation and those liberties are very precious to most of us. There is a difference between civility and liberty. Being civil to others, your example of your neighbor's wife, does not sacrifice one's liberty.


I've lived and carried in the same state as you. Also, showing an ounce of respect for others that may not share your views or lifestyle by concealing a firearm does not sacrifice one's liberty as well.



SouthernBoy said:


> I could spend a few pages of text here describing the positive comments from a wide variety of people that I received when I was open carrying on a regular basis.


No, you could text a few pages of positive comments you received from a small minority of the general population with similar values and lifestyles to your own. Once again, I support the right to open carry, but as others have posted, just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should. There is a time and place for open carry.



SouthernBoy said:


> Police open carry so what is the difference if a citizen does this?.


Police wear uniforms so people can identify them as law enforcement. When a cop open carries a firearm, some lady grochery shopping with her kids doesn't have to wonder if this individual is a cop, is there to rob the joint or shoot the place up, or is just some attention seeking politically charged A-hole.



SouthernBoy said:


> I chose to go to concealed carry over three years ago, except in vehicles and a few other places and situations, for reasons which I deem important and in my best interests. None of these reasons were driven by any trouble I caused, fear I may have induced, or inconsideration I could have created *because none of this happened. But then, this is Virginia and the place were it all began. Some of that patriotic fever remains in us natives*.


You need to understand that the people you make feel uncomfortable or intimidate by walking around in public open carrying are the last people that are going to come over and tell you that. Literally every time you walk around in a public setting like that, I can assure you that you are making people feel uneasy because of said behavior. You need to understand that less than one out of three Americans even owns a firearm. Even in very gun friendly areas such as rural Virginia or Texas where I have lived for many years, there is still a large percentage of people that you will encounter which are not fans of open carry in a public setting. Just look at the responses on this thread. These are individuals on a gun forum that don't even like seeing it.



SouthernBoy said:


> The way* I *see it, there is no difference between carrying a sidearm openly or a cell phone openly in its pouch. One is a phone and one is a gun but both are tools. And as *I* said, *I *fully support both modes of carry since to do otherwise would be disingenuous on *my* part.


Think about it for a second......


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## SouthernBoy

kaboom99 said:


> I've lived and carried in the same state as you. Also, showing an ounce of respect for others that may not share your views or lifestyle by concealing a firearm does not sacrifice one's liberty as well.


Well since you don't know me, I will start by saying I am a very friendly and affable person and respecting others was drilled into me by my parents when I was young. I speak to total strangers quite frequently and not just a simple 'morning.



kaboom99 said:


> No, you could text a few pages of positive comments you received from a small minority of the general population with similar values and lifestyles to your own. Once again, I support the right to open carry, but as others have posted, just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should. There is a time and place for open carry.


They weren't a small minority and came from all walks of life, from young people to senior citizens.



kaboom99 said:


> Police wear uniforms so people can identify them as law enforcement. When a cop open carries a firearm, some lady grochery shopping with her kids doesn't have to wonder if this individual is a cop, is there to rob the joint or shoot the place up, or is just some attention seeking politically charged A-hole.


I've had people go out of their way to thank me when they saw my sidearm. Even police.



kaboom99 said:


> You need to understand that the people you make feel uncomfortable or intimidate by walking around in public open carrying are the last people that are going to come over and tell you that. Literally every time you walk around in a public setting like that, I can assure you that you are making people feel uneasy because of said behavior. You need to understand that less than one out of three Americans even owns a firearm. Even in very gun friendly areas such as rural Virginia or Texas where I have lived for many years, there is still a large percentage of people that you will encounter which are not fans of open carry in a public setting. Just look at the responses on this thread. These are individuals on a gun forum that don't even like seeing it.


My rig was very inconspicuous. So much so that most people with whom I talked didn't even notice it. I purposely wore clothes that enabled my sidearm and holster to blend in and not stand out. One cashier at a local grocery store I frequent suddenly noticed I was armed after over three years of shopping in her store.

As I have said a number of times, I no longer open carry, except in certain situations, so all of this is really a non-issue, isn't it? I do support both modes of carry but took the decision to go back to concealed 3 1/2 years ago.


----------



## win231

Rather amusing when someone says, _"I don't open carry," _or _"I no longer open carry," _then they say, _"I like seeing other people open carrying," _or _"I support the right to open carry."_

Like saying, "I like to see other people doing something I'm too smart to do myself."

The main purpose of a firearm is self defense, not a conversation piece or a political statement, or an ice breaker....or getting attention.

As for an open carrier's rig being "inconspicuous," yeah...."my holster & gun blend in with my clothing so well, no one notices it." LOL!


----------



## desertman

win231 said:


> *Rather amusing when someone says,* _"I don't open carry," _or _"I no longer open carry," _then they say, _"I like seeing other people open carrying," _or _"I support the right to open carry."_
> 
> Like saying, "I like to see other people doing something I'm too smart to do myself."
> 
> The main purpose of a firearm is self defense, not a conversation piece or a political statement, or an ice breaker....or getting attention.
> 
> As for an open carrier's rig being "inconspicuous," yeah...."my holster & gun blend in with my clothing so well, no one notices it." LOL!


I guess it doesn't take much to amuse you?

I have both friends and relatives that don't even own a gun yet support the 2nd Amendment. I don't hunt or fish, it's just not for me, but I have plenty of friends that do and I support their right to engage in it. As I support anyone who engages in any lawful activity or hobby even one's that I find to be a waste of time and money. As much as I detest and loathe the Democrat Party, I support their 1st Amendment rights too as we can't pick and choose who's allowed to exercise any particular right, when and where. The Constitution and Bill of Rights applies to all of us. I don't see what's so amusing or unusual about any of that?

Indeed the main purpose of a firearm is self defense. Yet at the same time they are also conversation pieces that gun enthusiasts such as myself and many others both on this forum and other's like it, love to converse about. Otherwise we wouldn't have signed up to those forums in the first place, right? Sometimes firearms are used to make a political statement of solidarity at pro-gun rallies, just as T-shirts with pro-gun slogans are. Although I don't attend them myself, I certainly support their right to peaceably assemble while openly carrying their firearms wherever and whenever it's legal.

As an ice breaker? I don't know about that? I can't remember the last time I've used a gun as a pick axe either? As far as getting attention? In states where it's legal, people are used to seeing it and it garners very little if any attention at all. Maybe if you're all dressed up as if you're looking to start a small war, bandolier full of ammo, AR's or AK's draped over your shoulder, face painted in camouflage, full tactical gear, things like that. Yeah, you'd get attention alright. Other than that while dressed in every day clothes, openly carrying a sidearm is indeed inconspicuous in states where people are accustomed to it. As I've tried to explain earlier, it's no big deal. I've seen some people wear some pretty offensive T-shirts, some have outrageous tattoo's as I've mentioned in my post #11. You'd better believe that they garner a hell of a lot more attention than somebody who's lawfully carrying an exposed sidearm. What do you propose we do about those types of people? While other than making fools out of themselves, they're going about their daily business and breaking no laws?


----------



## SouthernBoy

win231 said:


> Rather amusing when someone says, _"I don't open carry," _or _"I no longer open carry," _then they say, _"I like seeing other people open carrying," _or _"I support the right to open carry."_


I don't find it amusing one bit. I find it being honest. Perhaps that's a little foreign to you.



win231 said:


> The main purpose of a firearm is self defense, not a conversation piece or a political statement, or an ice breaker....or getting attention.


The first part is right. It's a tool not only for self defense but a lot of other purposes as well.



win231 said:


> As for an open carrier's rig being "inconspicuous," yeah...."my holster & gun blend in with my clothing so well, no one notices it." LOL!


Well, gee... you don't know me either, thank God since I don't believe we would be friends. I was inconspicuous in my carry attire and gear. I never sought out attention and deliberately tried to stay "silent" in my day-to-day travels when armed, which was nearly always.

Once more... I no longer open carry, with a few exceptions, for reasons that are valid to me. And that's all that matters.


----------



## desertman

SouthernBoy said:


> I don't find it amusing one bit. I find it being honest. Perhaps that's a little foreign to you.
> 
> The first part is right. It's a tool not only for self defense but a lot of other purposes as well.
> 
> Well, gee... you don't know me either, thank God since I don't believe we would be friends. I was inconspicuous in my carry attire and gear. I never sought out attention and deliberately tried to stay "silent" in my day-to-day travels when armed, which was nearly always.
> 
> Once more... I no longer open carry, with a few exceptions, for reasons that are valid to me. And that's all that matters.


You know SB, I can understand if people live in a state that never allowed for open carry and then went Constitutional Carry where no permits are required to carry either open or concealed. Why they may be alarmed when some decide to exercise their new found freedom and flaunt it, it's just human nature, the thrill of being able to do something you could never do before. But they'll get over it once the novelty wears off. But it may take time for the general population to get used to seeing your average citizen going about their daily business with exposed sidearms. I could only imagine what people in NYC would do if ever New York State including NYC went Constitutional Carry? All holy hell would break loose, you can be assured of that.

On the other hand for those of us that live in states where open carry was always legal, the general population is already accustomed to it. Therefore those who openly carry sidearms aren't doing it for attention as nobody will give it to them anyway. It's in no way an attention getter if no one's paying any attention. Because of that no one should be accusing those of us who live in traditionally open carry states as being "attention whores" or of not being "well-adjusted people". That unto itself is a form of bigotry. I've seen people from all walks of life from women with children to the elderly openly carrying a sidearm. They're not behaving any differently than anyone else, they're just going about their daily business just the same as their unarmed counterparts.

I'm not an advocate for either method of carry except Constitutional Carry, after all it should be left up to the individual to decide what's best for them and for whatever reason as long as it's not for any nefarious purpose.


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## desertman

Glock17 said:


> Some interesting takes and perspectives, what I was really looking for was from a tactical standpoint - do you think there's any advantage to OC compared to CC?


That all depends, with open carry you have easier unfettered access to your firearm. But you lose the element of surprise. People who open carry may be the first person taken out as they are a visible threat to someone who is hell bent on committing a crime. Taking into consideration that the criminal already has his/her gun drawn and ready to use it. Myself? I'll take having the element of surprise, I don't want anyone to know that I am armed. I've practiced drawing and firing a concealed weapon a number of times to the point where the time it takes to draw and fire between open and concealed carry is negligible. Everything depends on how and where the gun is positioned, having the proper holster, clothing and a firearm that won't get snagged on your clothes that could be a DA/SA, DAO semi auto or revolver with bobbed hammers, hammerless revolver or as I prefer a striker fired pistol. But regardless of whether you carry open or concealed you should always practice drawing and firing your weapon to the point of it being second nature.

If you do decide to open carry in public you should use a good retention holster as you don't want someone grabbing your gun and either using it on you or some other innocent person(s). Typically a Level 3 holster, that's push-button activated to prevent the handgun from someone grabbing the gun from the front or back. But it's something else you've gotta' do to access your weapon and requires a little more practice. They are molded to fit specific makes and models of guns. I don't open carry in public so I've never owned or used this type of holster.

The other option if you can handle a small weapon of at least a .9mm is pocket carry. Which is just as easy and fast as pulling out your wallet as long as you use a good pocket holster and especially a gun that won't get snagged on the inside of your pocket. S&W hammerless J frames are perfect for this. I carry either a KAHR MK40 or a Springfield XDS .45 3.3 as my regular pocket guns. The Remington RM380 is a DAO and with it's flush hammer, or something similar is also a good choice as are the Glock G42 and G43. There are others of course but I think you get the idea.

How you decide to carry is up to you depending on what's lawful in your home state of course.


----------



## SouthernBoy

desertman said:


> You know SB, I can understand if people live in a state that never allowed for open carry and then went Constitutional Carry where no permits are required to carry either open or concealed. Why they may be alarmed when some decide to exercise their new found freedom and flaunt it, it's just human nature, the thrill of being able to do something you could never do before. But they'll get over it once the novelty wears off. But it may take time for the general population to get used to seeing your average citizen going about their daily business with exposed sidearms. I could only imagine what people in NYC would do if ever New York State including NYC went Constitutional Carry? All holy hell would break loose, you can be assured of that.
> 
> On the other hand for those of us that live in states where open carry was always legal, the general population is already accustomed to it. Therefore those who openly carry sidearms aren't doing it for attention as nobody will give it to them anyway. It's in no way an attention getter if no one's paying any attention. Because of that no one should be accusing those of us who live in traditionally open carry states as being "attention whores" or of not being "well-adjusted people". That unto itself is a form of bigotry. I've seen people from all walks of life from women with children to the elderly openly carrying a sidearm. They're not behaving any differently than anyone else, they're just going about their daily business just the same as their unarmed counterparts.
> 
> I'm not an advocate for either method of carry except Constitutional Carry, after all it should be left up to the individual to decide what's best for them and for whatever reason as long as it's not for any nefarious purpose.


We have no laws regarding open carry in Virginia, which means that open carry is the normal mode of carrying a sidearm and requires no permit. It's been like this since 1607 here.

The problems that some people seem to think will come about when one open carries might, in fact, take place from time to time since our state has been inundated with foreigners* over the past 40+ years. So much so that the most populous part of the state, Northern Virginia, only contains about 15 to 20% of a native Virginia population, the rest having come in from elsewhere. This has muddied the water significantly and turned our state from a strong conservative one to one which has a slightly left tilt. Those who have come here forgot to leave their baggage from whence they came before entering our borders.

* Foreigners = those coming from other parts of the nation and the world.


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## crewchief

Baggage= Stupid liberal thinking ideas, right? Like what that commie Pueterican lady says from NY!!!


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## SouthernBoy

crewchief said:


> Baggage= Stupid liberal thinking ideas, right? Like what that commie Pueterican lady says from NY!!!


Among other things, yes. I have no problem with people coming here from more liberal states as long as they adopt our culture, traditions, customs, and ways. But that is a pipe dream, for the most part. Key parts of our state have become so diluted that they have long since lost their traditional Virginia flavor. And once it's gone, it ain't coming back.


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## kaboom99

SouthernBoy said:


> Among other things, yes. *I have no problem with people coming here for more liberal states as long as they adopt our culture, traditions, customs, and ways*. But that sort of thing is a pipe dream, for the most part. Key parts of our state have become so diluted that they have long since lost their traditional Virginia flavor. And once it's gone, it ain't coming back.


^ lives in a blue state LOL

As someone that has lived in rural Virginia, it's far less conservative than rural Texas where I have also lived, which is far less conservative than anywhere in my current state of Idaho. I couldn't help but chuckle at this a bit too be honest. Virginia isn't is slightly less liberal than states like CA , OR, and WA. I wouldn't exactly call it conservative or patriot land these days.

.......Just saying


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## SouthernBoy

kaboom99 said:


> ^ lives in a blue state LOL
> 
> As someone that has lived in rural Virginia, it's far less conservative than rural Texas where I have also lived, which is far less conservative than anywhere in my current state of Idaho. I couldn't help but chuckle at this a bit too be honest. Virginia isn't is slightly less liberal than states like CA , OR, and WA. I wouldn't exactly call it conservative or patriot land these days.
> 
> .......Just saying


Your experiences here are different than are mine. Perhaps you lived somewhere along the college highway (college towns that run down 81 and some of the valley cities).


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## corneileous

Cait43 said:


> Granted there are those that open carry for the reasons you state however to lump all open carriers in your reasoning is not right..........


You're right, not all open carriers have that attitude.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Mr.Smith

Here in Wyoming we have open carry. I personally don't believe in open carry due to the fact I don't and wont advertise. I agree though, an armed society is a polite society. We just don't have much riff raff here anyway. All the bad guys want to go after "gun free zones".


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## corneileous

As far as a tactical standpoint, there are both pros and cons to each method of carry. The majority of people whom I’ve heard from regarding the “open carry vs conceal carry” debate, who lean more towards open carrying, tend to believe that the sheer visibility of their side arm to the public will ward off any given bad guy and will make him or her want to rethink and think twice about holding up that particular convenience store, for example, because he/she can clearly visually see that a particular patron is armed. They like to also believe that no bad guy will ever want to engage them or anything else near them if they know for sure that someone is in there who might be armed and might wanna be a hero. 

They also think that drawing your gun is easier and more proficient from an open carry holster, over a conceal carry holster. Which, for the most part is mainly true, but there’s much more to it than drawing your gun like in an old west gun fight like ole Quick Draw Mcgraw. If your in a situation where you feel something bad is about to happen, you can very discreetly draw your gun beforehand and then at that point, an open carry holster is irrelevant. It’s not always about only drawing it nanoseconds before you need it. 

They like to smear the words situational awareness- which, yes, situational awareness is much more important when you’re open carrying to the world, when everybody sees that you’re carrying a gun but dang, that’s one of those things that you can’t never ever slip up at, at all, or it may cost you your life- because you’re a target. 

Just like in that same convince store- if you’re open carrying and some bad guy is about to walk in with every intention of robbing that place, he’s prolly gonna take a shot at you first because you’re being seen as a threat. Then again, he may chicken out and decide to not go in there because he sees that you’re armed. How ya gonna know which situation is gonna unfold? Bottom line, if your standing in line at the bank, or at the gas station to pay for your fountain drink, and there’s someone outside hell bent on robbing it, they’ll either do one of two things; they’ll either shoot you first, or they’ll not even wanna go in there because they can see that you’re packin’ and think twice. I choose to not advertise that I’m carrying. I want the element of surprise. I don’t wanna be gawked at by these ignorant Libbies who just know I’ll probly be snapping at any second and wanna go postal on them. I live in a state that doesn’t give weight of the law to “robbers welcome” signs. Although I applaud those who take the time to not patronize businesses who say screw you to your 2nd amendment rights but I for one don’t look at it that way. I would just rather walk right in concealing than to be inconvenienced and feel like I have to base where I shop on a sign. Can’t do that when ya open carry. 

The only time I may open carry is when I’m on my own property here at the house or when I’m out in the woods but as far as out in public, no. 

But I’m all for in support for how ever each one of us wishes rocarry.


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## Bisley

Everyone has their own perceptions of what will or might happen, and most of us tend to behave according to what those perceptions are.

However, when it comes to letting opportunistic politicians make laws, willy-nilly, about everything, and then enforce the ones they want to, against the ones they want to, I require facts, and will push my perceptions aside. I may still behave the same way that I always have...stupidly, maybe, but that's my business. Law-makers have to be held to a more exacting standard, because that is everybody's business, and screw-ups are not easily undone.


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## SouthernBoy

One of the "facts" that get presented when this discussion comes up is the "element of surprise being on the side of concealed carry". To a degree there is truth to this. But there is also truth in the fact that said surprise may well be against the CC'er.

When you carry concealed, you look just like any other potential victim. So what this means is that your situational awareness must always be heightened and active whenever you are out and about. Same thing for one who open carries and with them, they need to have that SA even higher for several reasons. One of the major advantages to concealed carry is that potential BG's don't know you're armed. This also can work against concealed carry _if _the is carrier is casual in their carry or just doesn't seem to go about with their SA as active as it should be.

As for a robber shooting an open carrier first, the over-whelming number of people who rob others don't want to engage in a violent encounter AND they don't want a murder rap on their head. But then you are never going to know with whom you're dealing if you are caught up in a bad situation.

My approach to any questionable or bad encounter is one must always expect a worse case scenario and then work backwards from that. Not doing this means you will be chasing the curve instead of being ahead of it. This requires top notch SA whenever you are out in public.


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## Craigh

I've not put my 2 cents in yet because I believe any type of carrying is constitutional and should strictly be personal preference. I would choose concealed because of all the reasons previously mentioned, but mostly because I'd not want to have to put up with gawkers. Florida is a very touristy state and some would call 911 at the drop of a hat. 

It's a moot point for me, though. Florida doesn't allow open carry. When the CC law was first passed, there were quite a few overly zealous cops throughout the state who began arresting anyone they felt were printing or if the butt momentarily showed because a wind blew your jacket, etc. Fortunately, the state legislature adjusted the CC law to allow for incidental display or printing which put an end to much of this behavior by some LEOs.


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## Bisley

When Texas was debating open carry, there was a universal outrage from the lefties, but also a fairly stiff resistance from many reasonable folks who really didn't know much about it, but believed some of the logical inferences, that old people and idiots would be vulnerable to having their weapons taken away from them and would then be used on everybody else. 

The law still passed fairly easily and the governor signed it. A year later, the whole controversy was completely forgotten because those logical inferences did not play out, at all. I have seen a few people open carrying, but nobody gets excited about it, and the most vulnerable people are apparently either not open carrying, or the would-be thiefs are not behaving as anticipated.


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## corneileous

SouthernBoy said:


> One of the "facts" that get presented when this discussion comes up is the "element of surprise being on the side of concealed carry". To a degree there is truth to this. But there is also truth in the fact that that surprise may well be against the CC'er.
> 
> When you carry concealed, you look just like any other potential victim. So what this means is that your situational awareness must always be heightened and active whenever you are out and about. Same thing for one who open carries and with them, they need to have that SA even higher for several reasons. One of the major advantages to concealed carry is that potential BG's don't know you're armed. This also can work against concealed carry _if _the is carrier is casual in their carry or just doesn't seem to go about with their SA active as it should be.
> 
> As for a robber shooting an open carrier first, the over-whelming number of people who rob others don't want to engage in a violent encounter AND they don't want a murder rap on their head. But then you are never going to know with whom you're dealing if you are caught up in a bad situation.
> 
> My approach to any questionable or bad encounter is one must always expect a worse case scenario and then work backwards from that. Not doing this means you will be chasing the curve instead of being ahead of it. This requires top notch SA whenever you are out in public.


All good points. There is no perfect mode of carry. The best thing you can do is be proficient with the mode you choose.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## blackshirt

For me there is no argument for it...And i have no problem with those do open carry.
I choose not to.


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## Goldwing

When it is necessary I am legally able to improvise and adapt.

















I prefer image #1

GW


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## aarondhgraham

It's only in recent years that Oklahoma has allowed open carry,,,
And like a lot of people I tried it when it was enacted.

I didn't like it.

For the first 3-4 months I saw people carrying openly quite often,,,
But after that the trend went away,,,
At least where I live.

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone carrying openly.

The one good thing about the law for me is,,,
It eliminated the "crime" of accidental brandishing.

I once had to endure a long lecture from a county sheriff deputy,,,
I stretched up to get an item off a high shelf in Wal Mart,,,
This county mountie saw my LCP and went ape.

One county over had a 2nd amendment friendly DA and County Sheriff,,,
My county had the opposite and I could have been fined.

So really, that's the only way the law benefits me personally,,,
I can't think of any other positive aspect to it.

Aarond

.


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## Goldwing

Here's a hypothetical scenario for you open carry fans.
Two skunks notice your pride and joy on your hip and decide they want it. One stays out of your line of sight while the other starts drawing your attention by acting in a borderline illegal manner. As you are distracted by skunk #1's actions, skunk #2 blindsides you and relieves you of your pride and joy in a second. 
Now you are disarmed and at the mercy of armed skunks who may also like your car, phone, wallet and have the ability to take them.

If on the other hand you are proficient concealing your gun, the skunks will probably look for an easy target elsewhere.

If my hypothetical scenario is wrong, please set me straight.:numbchuck:

GW


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## Ingramite

It is a beautiful thing when good, honest, law abiding citizens model and exemplify that good , honest, and law abiding people have guns too.
When they are not ashamed of their right to bear arms.
When they believe that bad people are bad, not guns.

Society should look at us and be proud and glad that we are there to protect those who can not protect themselves.

Instead we demonize guns and those who carry them.
Honestly, it should be more than just a right. It should be an obligation that pride is taken in.

To those who disagree.....
Your rights begin at the tip of my nose, don't tread on me.


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## gwpercle

Glock17 said:


> We don't have open carry in my state. Seems like a bad idea tactically - that you're tipping your hand to the bad guys. Also the possibility of someone taking it. From what I've seen a lot of people are made uncomfortable by it.
> 
> What are arguments in favor of it?


I've lived in Louisiana for 69 years , we have always had open carry, always been legal, no permits required.
I can belt on my Ruger Blackhawk , wear it all day at my office ...walk down the street and even to wally mart.
I've been doing it for a long time. Why should I stop ?
Just because you don't like it isn't going to pass the smell test.
Criminals are not interested in a gunfight, don't assume they are courageous , they are cowards and will not attack an openly obviously armed person....somebody might get shot up, they will find easier prey.


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## Philco

goldwing said:


> Here's a hypothetical scenario for you open carry fans.
> Two skunks notice your pride and joy on your hip and decide they want it. One stays out of your line of sight while the other starts drawing your attention by acting in a borderline illegal manner. As you are distracted by skunk #1's actions, skunk #2 blindsides you and relieves you of your pride and joy in a second.
> Now you are disarmed and at the mercy of armed skunks who may also like your car, phone, wallet and have the ability to take them.
> 
> If on the other hand you are proficient concealing your gun, the skunks will probably look for an easy target elsewhere.
> 
> If my hypothetical scenario is wrong, please set me straight.:numbchuck:
> 
> GW


Not saying you're wrong. Not saying you're right, but I will ask you this. If you were contemplating robbing someone would it be the guy you KNOW is armed ? I just don't think I would be that stupid a bad guy. YMMV.


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## Goldwing

Philco said:


> Not saying you're wrong. Not saying you're right, but I will ask you this. If you were contemplating robbing someone would it be the guy you KNOW is armed ? I just don't think I would be that stupid a bad guy. YMMV.


My point is that you are responsible for the gun that you carry. Is it easier to keep it if you don't show it to anyone? Are you safer and able to avoid trouble better if people know that you are armed but have no idea why you are armed?

I suppose concerning the intelligence level of you as a prospective bad guy, I can not speculate.

GW


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## Philco

I certainly appreciate your point about being responsible for the gun you carry. To be honest, even though I live in an open carry state (Kentucky) I don't do so on any regular basis. Usually when I do I'm in hunting attire. I have a concealed carry permit and prefer to keep my armed status to myself usually. I do, however, see guys openly carrying on a pretty regular basis and nobody seems to get too excited about it when it happens. I have yet to hear of an incident such as you describe where the bad guys team up to rob a gun toting citizen of his weapon. I just don't see that as a likely turn of events. I personally think it far more likely that the bad guys would look elsewhere for an easier victim. After all, they're predators and look for the easy prey.


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## win231

Philco said:


> Not saying you're wrong. Not saying you're right, but I will ask you this. If you were contemplating robbing someone would it be the guy you KNOW is armed ? I just don't think I would be that stupid a bad guy. YMMV.


Unless of course, you'd prefer stealing a gun.


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## [email protected]

All the years I with the department I carried open, whether on or off the job. Well, maybe because we're never off the job. But now, I like the low profile and I never carry open.


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## crewchief

I forgot to mention when any of us open carry we have to keep the 21ft rule in our minds. Even in the woods (outside of hunting season) when I meet strangers I'm keeping the rule and talk from way back till I'm sure they're ok!!! During actual hunting seasons I'm not so careful but it still could happen!


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## paratrooper

We have a lot of individuals that open carry here in AZ. Most act as if it's not a big deal and don't pay any or all that much attention to others around them. 

Our last trip to Walmart, I spotted four who were open carrying. I passed by two on their strong side, literally inches away from their sidearm. No effort what-so-ever to prevent against someone taking their gun. I don't think either even knew I was there.


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## Steve M1911A1

paratrooper said:


> ...I passed by two on their strong side, literally inches away from their sidearm. No effort what-so-ever to prevent against someone taking their gun. I don't think either even knew I was there.


...And there's the very best argument against open carry.
If you are not continually in Cooper's "Orange," or maybe even "Red," open carry is hazardous to your own health, and to the health of everybody around you.
And it is very, very fatiguing to remain in "Orange" or "Red" for any appreciable length of time. Eventually, your attention will invariably wander. And then BINGO! (Or maybe better "Blammo!")


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## paratrooper

I've carried openly before w/o any issues. But, I was and always am, fully aware of my gun on my hip. As a uniformed officer, you constantly need to make sure that sidearm is always protected / secured. After so many years of doing so, it's second nature. 

I rarely carry open any more. If I happen to do so, I revert back to my training and instinct.


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## Steve M1911A1

...Although as a cop you probably carried a Level 3 secured holster...or, if that's too recent, at least a Level 1 or 2.

Much harder to do a snatch from, I think.


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## SouthernBoy

paratrooper said:


> We have a lot of individuals that open carry here in AZ. Most act as if it's not a big deal and don't pay any or all that much attention to others around them.
> 
> Our last trip to Walmart, I spotted four who were open carrying. I passed by two on their strong side, literally inches away from their sidearm. No effort what-so-ever to prevent against someone taking their gun. I don't think either even knew I was there.





Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...And there's the very best argument against open carry.
> If you are not continually in Cooper's "Orange," or maybe even "Red," open carry is hazardous to your own health, and to the health of everybody around you.
> And it is very, very fatiguing to remain in "Orange" or "Red" for any appreciable length of time. Eventually, your attention will invariably wander. And then BINGO! (Or maybe better "Blammo!")





paratrooper said:


> I've carried openly before w/o any issues. But, I was and always am, fully aware of my gun on my hip. As a uniformed officer, you constantly need to make sure that sidearm is always protected / secured. After so many years of doing so, it's second nature.
> 
> I rarely carry open any more. If I happen to do so, I revert back to my training and instinct.


During those 7 1/2 years that I open carried on a regular basis, I was always aware of people around me, in store isles, in cashier lines, in shopping center promenades... everywhere I went. I deliberately would angle my body to protect my sidearm and have my elbow and/or whole arm down by my sidearm to offer a mode of protection.

But those days are over and my sidearm rides quietly and discreetly behind clothing. I have my reasons for reverting back to concealed carry nearly four years ago and am quite comfortable with them. I still do carry openly always when in a vehicle, going to my local shooting range, frequently going to gun stores, and occasionally at gas stations.


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## paratrooper

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...Although as a cop you probably carried a Level 3 secured holster...or, if that's too recent, at least a Level 1 or 2.
> 
> Much harder to do a snatch from, I think.


I did use a Level III holster. Even then, I still went above & beyond in regards to weapon retention. No matter how much effort one uses to safe guard a sidearm, there's someone out there that can take it away from you. Just the simple act of acknowledging that fact / possibility, puts you ahead of the curve. :smt002


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