# Metal-frame 9mm recommendations



## clockworkjon

Interested in a 9mm, and I've read up on plenty of polymer guns, God knows there's no shortage of them out there. However, I only know of a couple companies that make steel-frame guns like Beretta and CZ, and some 1911's that come in 9mm. I'm sure there's more. I don't have a preference either way at this point. Any recommendations? Thanks!


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## cougartex

Stoeger Cougar. Stoeger Industries is a subsidiary of Beretta. The Stoeger Cougars are made in Turkey using the same machinery that Beretta used to make the original Cougars. It is every bit the quality of the Beretta. The Stoeger 8000 in 9mm is identical to the Beretta Cougar L Type P (Cougar L slide, lighter barrel and beveled slide, but with a full-length magazine). The Cougar is a great gun for the money.


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## Overkill0084

Beratta M9 & varients/copies. Sig has a few. Colt has a compact 1911 variant in 9mm, as does Springfiled Armory (EMP). Rock Island has another 1911 9mm as well, they seem to be pretty nicely done for the cash. EAA witness (CZ clone), Baby eagle (CZ... Cousin?) 

After being in a similar situation to yours a bit over a month ago, I ended up with a CZ 75BD. At it's price point, it's hard to beat. Accurate, reliable, and comfortable. Your going to spend quite a bit more to equal or better it. I understand the 9mm EAAs are pretty good. YMMV.


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## clockworkjon

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm not very familiar with either CZ or Stoeger, but I do see the names pop up on forums quite often.

On a side note, is it pronounced "Cee-Zee" or "Czech"?

*EDIT:* WTF? Except for the CZ-USA website I can't find the CZ 75BD anywhere! The only one I've found is the 10-rnd CA model. Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## recoilguy

The 75 DB has a decocker If this is your first gun the 75 B is a Classic and pretty readily available. It is a beauty and has a thumb saftey on it rather then a decocker. You will love that gun. I just, 30 minutes ago, was shopping for my wifes Christmas present, I bought myself a new CZ PCR, the compact version of the gun. I now have ,,,,well plenty of CZ's Pronounced See Zee. 

The P-01 is a great gun too You can't go wrong with any of the CZ's. My first CZ was a P-01 then the 75B then a couple others and then the one I got today. CZ isnt the only brand I own but it is the one I recomend to folks. You will be satisfied with the 75 B if it fits your hand It is egonomic and dealy accurate. Once you get better wit the 75B it can be customized and the same gun can be twaeked into a competition caliber weapon. It is versiatle and reliable and not too much $$$$$$.

The Stoegar is a good gun too, I may own one oneday myself. Good luck with your new weapon enjoy it and be safe.

RCG


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## Overkill0084

clockworkjon said:


> Thanks for the replies so far. I'm not very familiar with either CZ or Stoeger, but I do see the names pop up on forums quite often.
> 
> On a side note, is it pronounced "Cee-Zee" or "Czech"?
> 
> *EDIT:* WTF? Except for the CZ-USA website I can't find the CZ 75BD anywhere! The only one I've found is the 10-rnd CA model. Any suggestions? Thanks!


I only bought the 75BD because the shop where I bought it was out of the black 75Bs. I took the pass on the Stainless version. Stainless looks nice, but it doesn't make it any more accurate, and the extra co$t was a bit much, IMHO. They had no idea how long it would take to get more so I went with what they had in stock. I had made my choice & by golly, I wanted my CZ then, not weeks later. The difference doesn't seem very significant. Now I just need a Kadet kit for it.


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## clockworkjon

Second gun, first "real" gun. Just picked up a Browning Buckmark a month ago. As to the CZ75BD, aren't de-cockers a good thing? The only other way I know to de-cock a hammer-fired gun is to squeeze the trigger and slowly let the hammer down. Maybe I'm just a noob, but that just doesn't seem safe. I'm pretty sure Beretta 92s come standard with a de-cocker. Education please!


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## dogknott

Speaking of being built on the same machines Beretta used to be made on, how about Taurus?
Not real familiar with them, but don't they have the decocker also?


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## cougartex

Stoeger Information -

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_cougar.php


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## Overkill0084

clockworkjon said:


> Second gun, first "real" gun. Just picked up a Browning Buckmark a month ago. As to the CZ75BD, aren't de-cockers a good thing? The only other way I know to de-cock a hammer-fired gun is to squeeze the trigger and slowly let the hammer down. Maybe I'm just a noob, but that just doesn't seem safe. I'm pretty sure Beretta 92s come standard with a de-cocker. Education please!


I bought it as a range & plinking gun, with possible HD use. The decocker is niether here nor there to me. To be honest, they are a bit unsettling at first, watching the hammer fall in an unhindered manner. 
But let's be honest, the standard safety model can be unsettling as well, it requires that the operator is competant and paying attention. I grew up around revolvers, so the pull the trigger method is no big deal to me.
I would guess that the decocker method is probably safer in a military/police type environment.


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## cougartex

clockworkjon said:


> I'm pretty sure Beretta 92s come standard with a de-cocker. Education please!


Beretta 92 Information -

Beretta 92 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MLB

If I were looking for a new metal framed 9mm handgun, I'd be looking at the Browning HP, a SIG 229, the Stoeger Cougar, or a 1911 style.

Considering used handguns opens up a few more possibilities, including Walther's P5. I love that thing.


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## EliWolfe

Beretta 92, my all time favorite pistol. Metal frame, military proven, reliable, accurate and beautiful to look at. The CZs are cool too, great fit and finish, but I have never owned one. I have heard good stuff about the Stoegers but please stay away from the Taurus. My gunny for 25 years tells me that the Taurus semis are the number one warranty issues they got, and he sells just about all the major brands.
Good luck,
Eli :mrgreen:


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## recoilguy

Have I mentioned CZ is a great gun......Oh I have sorry.

CZ all the way!

RCG


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## clockworkjon

Ok, so since I have limited range options with limited rental options, and no friends or family with guns, I have to rely on the "How-Does-It-Feel-In-My-Hand?" test. I was at a shop yesterday and got to handle the Stoeger Cougar, CZ 75B, Beretta 92FS, and a FN Hernstal something or other. Without having the ability to actually fire them, I have to say I was most comfortable with the CZ, with the Beretta a very close second. The Cougar just didn't feel quite right, and the FNH looked and felt like crap.

When the time (and money) comes I'm going with a CZ. I found a great online price for the CZ 85B. I like the ambidextrous safety and slide release, and my OCD appreciates having both sides of the gun look the same! I don't think not having a de-cocker will be as big of a deal as I previously thought. I tried out the trigger-pull method and I think with a little dry practice I can safely do it with no problems (pointing down range of course.)

So thanks for all the advice, I will now begin accepting donations! (j/k....unless you really want to donate!) :help: :mrgreen:


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## cougartex

Congratulations, the CZ is a great choice. Enjoy and safe shooting.


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## recoilguy

Congrats on the choice the 85 is a good pick.

RCG


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## dondavis3

Here is my CZ 75b - it is a excellent gun.










or Here is a great shooting 9 mm gun of mine.

EAA Witness 9mm in "wonder finish"










Best of luck in your search.

:smt1099


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## EliWolfe

[QUOTE The Cougar is a great gun for the money. [/QUOTE]

I picked up a Stoeger 8000 9mm yesterday. I planned a range day today, but we got a blizzard going on. Anyway, the gun is very well made, complements my 92 and will hopefully be the great shooter I've heard about. Love that rotary barrel!!! Range report whence the snow recedes.
Eli :smt1099


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## JTEX53

*Want a better high capacity decent quality pistol in 9mm/45ACP*

I've been wanting another handgun that has a high capacity variable size mags. available. I really like the Stoeger Cougar 8000 but I also want a pistol whose magazines are reasonably priced. Looks to be Glock mags every where at a reasonable prices. What ever I purchase I want to eventually have at the minimum of 5 magazines. I just don't want to have to pay $25-$30 for magazines, if at all possible.

I have a Norinco Tokerev and mags are pretty pricey for 8 rounders. The Tok is a rugged and dependable pistol if you keep it clean and lubed. I purchased it for $110 NIB in mid 90's. Wish I would have bought another!


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## SigZagger

The CZ line is a good choice. This model has not been mentioned and the odds are you will not see this 9mm Performance Center S&W 952-2 in any gun shop. Most are custom order and $1500 +. But, I'll bet if you handle one and shoot it, you may change your mind. Nonetheless, here's a look:


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## clockworkjon

Whoa, waaaaayyyyy out of my price range! I'd rather buy the CZ and a Remington R1, and spend the difference on ammo and range time.


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## clockworkjon

Even though I'm leaning heavily towards purchasing the CZ85c, I'm still waiting for my bonus to arrive, so technically I'm still in the research phase. I'm wondering why I shouldn't just go with a Beretta 92fs and make life simple. Parts and accessories are unlimited, price is almost the same, features are almost the same. What's really the difference between the two? Anyone own both who can comment?


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## recoilguy

The Bereta 92 is a proven weapon with unlimited possibilities. It shoots very nicely and is a good weapon. The CZ is a proven weapon also with unlimited possibilities. It is a gun used by champion shooters, it shoots nicely and is accurate out of the box like no other gun I know of. ( I dont know of all guns) You will not be unhappy with the berreta you will also not be as happy with the berreta. You will always want a CZ if you get the Berreta, If you get the CZ you will want another CZ.

I promose.

RCG


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## EliWolfe

SigZagger said:


> The CZ line is a good choice. This model has not been mentioned and the odds are you will not see this 9mm Performance Center S&W 952-2 in any gun shop. Most are custom order and $1500 +. But, I'll bet if you handle one and shoot it, you may change your mind. Nonetheless, here's a look:


Wow! Nice pistol there.
Eli :mrgreen:


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## dondavis3

I've got both - I shoot both

My Beretta 92 F










My CZ 75B










The Beretta is larger in size, about the same weight - maybe Beretta's a little heavier. 

Both shoot very well. :smt082

But for me the CZ shoots better. :mrgreen:

:smt1099


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## B3nT

*A real classic steel-frame - Browning High Power 9mm.*

The BHP originates from 1935. It was John Browning's last design, developed further by an FN wizard before its release after his death. Its features have been much copied, as it takes much from Browning's 1911. It's 9mm, and it is in many ways refined from the 1911.

A BHP was my second medium-caliber shooting pistol; I bought it new from a local dealer. I had been shopping for something that would be accurate and take a load off my only other 9-at-that-time, a Walther P99. Something that would feel good and shoot well for me. I handled a lot of different makes, and was lucky to be able to shoot some of them. Although I never got to test a High Power, they're -- iconic. And absolutely beautiful in blue, particularly in high-polish blue. There are models with quality adjustable sights, and there are some aftermarket accessories available. FN built them for Browning until a couple decades ago. I believe that all current Browning High Powers' parts are still made in the same FN armory in Belgium, but like mine, are assembled in Portugal. The Portugese do a fine job of it.

The BHP, in my hand, feels great: it just points. It's neither huge nor petite; it's a 13-round double-stack, a slimmish full-size gun. For me, the balance is fab, and out of the box, it is an excellent shooter. Mine is very accurate, with a fine lockup and tight slide fit. It shot flawlessly from the start. At four years and 6-8K rounds of commercial ball, it's not had a single hiccough apart from my 2 rounds from a single box of WWB that wouldn't chamber in the BHP or three other guns, and my own early reloads.

Fine balance and feel, tough, elegant aesthetic design, accurate and reputedly durable. It's been in continuous production and refinement since its release over 60 years ago. There's a Wikipedia article that will tell of its history. It's been made in other factories around the world, and has been much copied in others. The Browning original is the best.

I've fired CZ 75 and 85 at the range, and dry fired the newer P series. They, too are excellent guns, and in today's world a very popular police and military sidearm. CZ has been refining this design for over thirty years. They're finely made, tight, very accurate, and may have a slightly better trigger than the High Power. But the HP's is still very fine: crisp with an indiscernible break, moderate travel, and smooth, despite a little friction from the (yeah) magazine safety. Fairly, the CZs have moved into the market that the HP dominated until the 1980s.

My own now has a JP red dot sight, nice grippy Hogues, and a Barsto match barrel, and it's been a joy, a favorite. Any person looking for a 9mm with a more modern ergonomics than a 1911 but still retains the feel elegance, should hold one of these.

There are quite a few sources for barrels, triggers, sears, springs, grips, and even some for sights and optical sight adapters. (My optical sight uses a slim adapter that fits the slot where the stock fixed sight was.) Standard magazine in most states is 10-shots, but 13-shots were the original and still most widely used. Meg-Gar and perhaps others make a 15-round magazine, and there are 20- and 32-round mags out there. I don't think I'd like that balance so well, though.

It is also available in .40, a recent development. The .40 has a redesigned heavier frame to support it.


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## Jason248

the Sig P226 or P6(P225) are a couple of my favs


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## triplebike

JTEX53 said:


> I've been wanting another handgun that has a high capacity variable size mags. available. I really like the Stoeger Cougar 8000 but I also want a pistol whose magazines are reasonably priced. Looks to be Glock mags every where at a reasonable prices. What ever I purchase I want to eventually have at the minimum of 5 magazines. I just don't want to have to pay $25-$30 for magazines, if at all possible.
> 
> I have a Norinco Tokerev and mags are pretty pricey for 8 rounders. The Tok is a rugged and dependable pistol if you keep it clean and lubed. I purchased it for $110 NIB in mid 90's. Wish I would have bought another!


The Stoeger Cougar ships with two factory Beretta 15 round mags. You can get additional Beretta factory 15 rd mag's at cdnn for 19.99 each.

Beretta 8000 Cougar/Stoeger 9mm 15rd Blue LE Mag New Factory


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## cougartex

+1 CDNN. I have bought several magazines from them, a good Texas Company. :mrgreen:


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## triplebike

clockworkjon said:


> Even though I'm leaning heavily towards purchasing the CZ85c, I'm still waiting for my bonus to arrive, so technically I'm still in the research phase. I'm wondering why I shouldn't just go with a Beretta 92fs and make life simple. Parts and accessories are unlimited, price is almost the same, features are almost the same. What's really the difference between the two? Anyone own both who can comment?


About 8 months ago I purchased at the same time NIB a Beretta 92FS & a CZ 75B. Out of the box I shot the Beretta better. I liked the Beretta's trigger over the CZ's. After about 1000 rds the CZ's trigger did improve. Both have been fired over 2500 times FLAWLESSLY. I recently sold the CZ in favor of the Beretta. For ME the Beretta was the better of the two. Both are outstanding handguns, both are very accurate, easy to maintain & flawless in their operation. Recoil is about the same. If I come across an outstanding deal on another CZ75B, I would not hesitate buying it.


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## Hikingman

Jason248 said:


> the Sig P226 or P6(P225) are a couple of my favs


Yes.


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## Scorpion8

Browning HP (P-35) even the wartime models. And speaking of, it's not hi-capacity but a Walther P-38 fits my hand very, very well.


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## NGIB

No doubt that my favorite metal framed 9mm is my Sig P228 - it does everything well. It took me some time to find one as they are getting scarce and folks tend to hold on to them...










I also have lots of fun with my beater Taurus 92. Didn't pay much for it, it shoots great, and I prefer the frame mounted safety to the Beretta's slide mount. Yes, this is a factory two-tone...


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## ronmail65

clockworkjon said:


> Second gun, first "real" gun. Just picked up a Browning Buckmark a month ago. As to the CZ75BD, aren't de-cockers a good thing? The only other way I know to de-cock a hammer-fired gun is to squeeze the trigger and slowly let the hammer down. Maybe I'm just a noob, but that just doesn't seem safe. I'm pretty sure Beretta 92s come standard with a de-cocker. Education please!


I'm not familiar with CZs, but instead of "de-cocking", can't you just drop the mag and rack the slide to eject the cartridge? Then you don't have to mess with the hammer. Is that right?


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## Kharuger

On a budget: CZ
Got plenty $: H & K


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## Lefty Shotlow

Get a 4" Kimber or Springer 1911 in 9mm.


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## clockworkjon

Kimbers and Springers are outside the budget, but would be nice. Here's the deal. I handled another CZ this week, and what I didn't notice before was how far forward the slide release was. I can't just stick my thumb out to reach it, I actually had to adjust my grip, which isn't good. So now I'm leaning back towards the Beretta, or even the Cougar because they are selling for $200 less than the 92fs. But I just can't seem to find basics like holsters or extra mags for the Cougar. Just got my bonus approved, I have a week or so before payout. Hardcore research time!


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## Hurryin' Hoosier

For my money, I'd just as soon have my Taurus PT92 as any of them.


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## clockworkjon

I put my flame suit on before typing this. I went to the range this past weekend and decided to try out a M&P 9mm, and it was good. It was comfortable, perfect size, easy to shoot, and had low recoil, and its very affordable (see cheap). So I'm on a few waiting lists for the Carry and Range Kit with all the goodies. I'm not done with metal-frames though, a 1911 is on the wish list for the future (thinkin' R1), but for now I think I'm a soon-to-be plastic gun owner. Hard to admit, but true.


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## texgunner

For a metal framed 9mm, I like SIG P226/229, Browning Hi-Power and the CZ-75 line.


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## ronmail65

texgunner said:


> For a metal framed 9mm, I like SIG P226/229, Browning Hi-Power and the CZ-75 line.


I've also been looking for a metal frame 9mm and these are the same guns that keep surfacing in recommendations and shooting experience at the range.

I've decided on the CZ (I'll probably get the 85 cause I'm a lefty). I shot them equally well. I like the slightly larger grip, 15rd mag capacity, and the price point of the CZ.


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