# Need some help...



## OGCJason (Nov 4, 2013)

I am putting together an article for my blog (no URL - sorry, don't want to contradict forum rules), and have - I think - a pretty good article. Would like some feedback and thoughts both on the content, and hopefully a suggestion for a final point to include within the context of this article:

*How Safe Is Too Safe?*

We should all know the basic rules of firearms and gun safety. If there's a CHP/CCW class that doesn't cover the 4 NRA Rules of Safety then you're training was woefully inadequate. One of the "additional" rules though, often merits discussion, especially in the context of concealed carry and self defense, and that is the following:

"Store your firearms such that they are inaccessible to unauthorized persons"

This basic tenet, along with the one of storing your arms and ammo separate from each other I often see students just nod along, but if you are paying attention, your ears should perk up, because storing firearms not only prevents unauthorized people from getting at them - it's also a barricade for you! Yes, you have the biometrics, or know the combo, or have the key, but&#8230;

What about that worst case scenario where someone intrudes into your home and you have to react and defend yourself and your property. Do you think a criminal will buy the line of:

"Halt, stop or I'll go to my safe, find a firearm, load it, and get it out and point it at you!"

Not likely. Often, seconds are what makes the difference between tragedy and a smart person defending themselves. That means having your firearm quickly accessible in an instant. This flies in the face against the idea of storing your arms securely and away from unauthorized persons. Because if you don't lock it up, then someone else can get it. If you don't like the idea of putting a time gap into the equation in a self-defense scenario, then your quandary is quite real.

So, what is the answer? Truthfully, there is no right answer for everyone, and even local statutes may vary about storing guns inside your home. Generally, you are free to store them as you desire, but what if there are kids, service personnel or other people that frequent your home regularly - do you want to have a gun out on your bedside table? Probably not - so there must be a distinction between storing and being "at the ready".

My rule is that if I am present, a firearm can remain in the open. I'll have one on the main floor, one on the second floor, and another usually in my holster. What if I am upstairs, my wife is downstairs and some intruder comes in while I am in my "thinking room"? Is my wife able to defend herself? Just like having an escape route planned in case of fire, you should also have your family be familiar with where you store your firearms, their ready status, and make sure that each firearm that is accessible only be known to your family. (You certainly don't want the landscaper to know where things are like that&#8230 But what about trusted providers like baby-sitters, pet sitters, house sitters and that ilk? It really is a judgement call, but here are a set of criteria I have to help ensure that I am both safe and ready!

Store guns that are not part of your home defense setup
Continue to store firearms separately from munitions
For guns "at the ready" ensure that family members know where they are if they need them
Periodically re-visit training with each firearm you maintain with family members. Your own training will likely exceed that of family, but they need to be aware too and without residual training from time to time, people tend to forget stuff like that - especially in a stressful scenario.
If you leave your home, make sure you transfer guns from a ready status to a stored status
For firearms in a safe or under lock and key - ensure only the people that "need to know" either know where the safe is located and have access to open it.
Provide instructions for service folks on what to do if they encounter or see a firearm in the course of their services.
Consider a video security system. These can be set up for as little as $500 to both purchase the equipment and install. Many have wireless options so you can monitor across your entire home network.
Resist falling into patterns of usage. Don't always keep pistol A in place A and pistol B in place B. Change them up, and even give a quiz to your significant other to see if they are doing their own awareness checks - "Hey sweetie, what's currently in spot A?"
?????


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

When it comes to buying real estate, it all boils down to location, location, location. 

When it comes to securing / storing a firearm within a home, it all boils down to situation, situation, situation.


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## OGCJason (Nov 4, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> When it comes to buying real estate, it all boils down to location, location, location.
> 
> When it comes to securing / storing a firearm within a home, it all boils down to situation, situation, situation.


Thanks...I guess? Not sure if that's a review of the blog post, or a suggestion for #10?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

A defensive firearm is useless when it has been locked away, out of the reach of "little hands."

Therefore, the following rules apply (well, they applied in my own home, with my own child, anyway):
1. When the adults are not in bed or taking a bath, the defensive firearms stay ready for action on the adults' persons.
2. When one adult is bathing, the other adult has the duty to supervise the bather's weapon, and to meet any threats.
3. When the adults are sleeping abed, the defensive weapons stay ready for use on their respective bedside tables (or in those tables' drawers).
4. _Most Important Corollary_: Autonomously mobile children in the household have already been instructed in gun-safety rules, to the extent to which they are able to understand them and function with them. Primary among those rules is: "Do not touch the gun without permission!" Secondary is: "If you ask permission, you will _always_ be allowed to handle the gun, once safety has been assured." (This tends to remove the "curiosity factor," and the need to sneak a peek.)

Long arms not in immediate use were, of course, locked away. But the "ask and you shall be given" rule applied to them, too. Thus, they were also made immune from illicit curiosity.

And, by the way, this tactic worked perfectly. Now, at age 36, she is still gun-safe. (I can't yet say the same for her husband and new child, but their time is coming.)


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> When it comes to buying real estate, it all boils down to location, location, location.
> 
> When it comes to securing / storing a firearm within a home, it all boils down to situation, situation, situation.


I was implying that each and every situation needs to be customized to fit the needs of those utilizing such necessity.


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## OGCJason (Nov 4, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> I was implying that each and every situation needs to be customized to fit the needs of those utilizing such necessity.


Agreed...to wit:

"So, what is the answer? Truthfully, there is no right answer for everyone, and even local statutes may vary about storing guns inside your home. "


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

OGCJason said:


> So, what is the answer? Truthfully, there is no right answer for everyone, and even local statutes may vary about storing guns inside your home. Generally, you are free to store them as you desire, but what if there are kids, service personnel or other people that frequent your home regularly - do you want to have a gun out on your bedside table? Probably not - so there must be a distinction between storing and being "at the ready".
> [/list]


Basically, you answer your own inquiry "need some help". There is no one right answer....

Gun safety comes down to case by case..... There are many variables to consider with individual firearm(s) owners....
*Single
*Married
*Married with children
*Relatives/friends entering your premises
* Etc., etc., etc.

Keep in mind the 4 NRA Rules of Safety have been around for quite some time yet we still here of accounts of those not heeding the rules.

*You can lead a human to knowledge, but you can't make it think.....*


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## OGCJason (Nov 4, 2013)

So, by help I mean:

1. Thoughts on the article? (Good, bad, blah?)
2. Any ideas for a tenth bullet point?


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Just a few observations:

(1) They're NOT the NRA's, 'Four Rules'; they're Jeff Cooper's.

(2) I agree that it's always best to store guns empty, and ammunition separately; BUT, it's not a perfect world; and sometimes empty guns, and separately stored ammunition can work against you. The best general advice, though, is to act as if: young children, inexperienced or typically irresponsible teenagers, or addled elderly persons MIGHT HAVE access to your guns and ammunition; and store these items separately under lock and key. (Which is what the NRA recommends.)

(3) In my (considered) opinion you place too much importance on being able to make a split second response. I'm reminded of the aphorism about the traveling gunslinger who rode into town and asked the first man he met where he could find the, 'fastest gun in town'? The townsman he queried thought for a moment before replying, '_He's up on Boot Hill._'

(4) Ever since our home was suddenly invaded, bright and early, on an otherwise quiet Sunday morning back in 1990, I have slept with a loaded (C-3) pistol underneath my pillow (with the muzzle pointed away from anyone else in the room). I've, also, developed a pragmatic fascination with the mechanics of armed robbery, and home invasions, and studied as many case histories as I've been able to find.

(5) Of those things I've discovered it's surprised me to learn that most of these events BOTH begin and end rather quickly. In a large majority of at home, face-to-face invasions a pistol is going to be all that most people need in order to effectively defend themselves, and drive an attacker(s) off.

(6) If you want to be SUPER SECURE then keep your gun safe in the bedroom where you sleep. When I go to bed at night the first thing I do before climbing under the covers is to unlock the steel door of my gun safe. When opened, that door covers the hall; and, if need be, it gives me access to sufficient hardware to hold off an entire gang of Hell's Angels.

(7) OK, after suffering a home invasion and damned near almost, 'getting it', I will admit that I'm never out of arm's reach of a loaded pistol while we're at home.

(I was unarmed, 3 days out of the hospital, and on crutches when that enormous filthy dirty dude simply walked through our front door and came walking down the hall straight at me! I will never forget the obscene leering grin that appeared on his face when he realized that he'd caught me, 'flat footed' and unable to defend myself! For some reason he ignored my wife, who was standing next to the stove in the kitchen, and kept coming straight at me. Was I scared? Frankly, I thought it was all over; and I actually started saying what I thought would be a final prayer as that large monster closed in on me!)

(8) What I will NOT, ever, do is to keep a weapon, 'at the ready' in any part of the house where I am not physically present. We live in a ranch-style home with very large ground-level windows. In a situation like this leaving a loaded gun at the other end of the house could be the equivalent of simply handing a firearm to an intruder.

(9) Personally, I have no good use for moving a firearm from place to place around our home. Heck, I have a hard enough time, now, just trying to remember to take my socks off before I go to bed at night. To my mind it's far more important to,

HAVE A WELL THOUGHT OUT AND VIABLE HOME SELF-DEFENSE PLAN.

(10) Ideally, you should know: (10a) The best contact and ambush points around your home. (10b) The safest and best angles and lines of fire throughout your house; and (10c) have a coordinated response plan between yourself and all other family members.

The NRA recommends using a preselected, 'safe room' and keeping a cell phone, a high intensity flashlight, and a set of house keys in that safe room with you. If - if - you, also, have outside egress from that safe room, then, so much the better. Getting out of the house whenever someone else is inside it is often your best personal security option, and should be taken whenever it's prudent to do so.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Keeping or hiding your "self defense" "go to gun", in different places in the home doesn't work for me.

I personally need to have my home defense gun or guns in the same place out of sight.

I have tried switching different areas, for me I need to know where the mags , guns are located without thinking about it.

That is the only difference I would have.

Good job so far, I'm sure your final edit will be GREAT!
Thanks for sharing
Pic


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> Keeping or hiding your "self defense" "go to gun", in different places in the home doesn't work for me.
> 
> I personally need to have my home defense gun or guns in the same place out of sight.
> 
> ...


Yup, I also agree with keeping your "go to" gun in the same place, all the time. In case of need, I don't want to have to ask myself......"Now where did I put that gun this time"?

And.....when it's in it's one place all the time, it's also positioned the same exact way I put it, when I first put it there. That way, even in the middle of the night, in complete darkness, I can reach over and know it's properly positioned for a quick grab.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

paratrooper said:


> Yup, I also agree with keeping your "go to" gun in the same place, all the time. In case of need, I don't want to have to ask myself......"Now where did I put that gun this time"?...


...How 'bout _on your body, all the time_-except when you're asleep, and then it's always in whatever same place you choose for it?

Jean and I will be away visiting our Rhode Island granddaughter from November 29th through December 14th.
Stay polite, don't cause too much trouble, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...How 'bout _on your body, all the time_-except when you're asleep, and then it's always in whatever same place you choose for it?
> 
> Jean and I will be away visiting our Rhode Island granddaughter from November 29th through December 14th.
> Stay polite, don't cause too much trouble, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks.


Believe it or not, I never carry while in my home or on my property. I don't feel the need to.

And, for the most part, I don't carry on a day to day basis within my community.

If I really felt the need to carry for any reason in regards to the above two statements, I would.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Hmmm...

Consider my having wrote this hoping to make you giggle:

So, your crystal ball is so accurate that you can predict exactly when and where you are going to be attacked?




Jean and I will be away visiting our Rhode Island granddaughter from November 29th through December 14th.
Stay polite, don't cause too much trouble, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I don't always need a gun . I have other special skills :numbchuck: :duel: :smt027:smt171 plus I can run like Forrest Gump:smt170


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Consider my having wrote this hoping to make you giggle:
> 
> ...


Life is a gamble at best. You simply cannot be prepared for everything that might happen. At some point, you have to draw a line in the sand and say that's that.

Trying to advise someone when, where and why they need to carry a gun, is opening up a big ole can of worms. Different people, locations, and situations, call for varying levels of preparedness.

I won't and never have, tried to convince someone they need to carry. It's a call that only the individual can make.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Got it.

See you in a couple of weeks.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Gun on me when ever I am awake.
Bed stand when I am not.
My choice to do so
Good points by all in this thread.


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