# Trolley Square shooting: Concealed-gun debate heats up after mall shooting By Christ



## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

*Trolley Square shooting: Concealed-gun debate heats up after mall shooting
By Christopher Smart*

The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 02/13/2007 06:41:35 PM MST

To carry or not to carry? Which philosophy would had made a difference?

The debate between gun-control advocates and gun-rights supporters is a familiar aftermath to any outburst of gun violence in America.

In the wake of Monday's murderous rampage at Trolley Square, those questions again confront law-abiding members of a sometimes violent society.

But this time the massacre wasn't in Colorado or Texas or California. The question of whether a concealed weapon can make us and our loved ones safer is much closer to home.

"When things like this happen, some think maybe we ought to have no guns in society, and some think everyone should have one," said Steve Gunn, cq board member of Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah. "It all depends on your perspective."

It appears as though off-duty Ogden police Officer Kenneth Hammond, who carried a concealed weapon, stopped the killing spree, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council.

Aposhian noted that it is impossible to know whether a concealed-weapon holder could make a difference in every violent confrontation.

"But we do know what happens when there is no one with a concealed weapon in these situations - people die."

Aposhian spent Monday fielding telephone calls from individuals and 
groups seeking information on concealed-weapons permits.

"You won't hear the gun-rights community say, 'Everyone needs to get a gun permit.' That wouldn't be right," Aposhian said. "But people who never before desired a firearm now want to get a permit. These are moms and dads."

Those on the other side of the debate, however, say more guns make us less safe.

"I'm not comfortable arming our entire country for protection - that's a paranoid notion," said Gary Sackett, a Gun Violence Prevention Center board member.

"You can't protect against every madman with a firearm or a hand grenade. That sort of thing is going to happen from time to time."

Homicide and suicide rates in countries where gun ownership is restricted - like Japan, Canada and the United Kingdom - are a fraction of the U.S. rate, Sackett said.

"If we arm everybody, we are a lost society. And most western countries have figured that out."

But gun advocate Charles Hardy said that concealed weapon holders aren't "Rambo wannabes" and would flee rather than shoot it out. But in a situation like the one at Trolley Square, it could give a victim "a fighting chance," rather than being a "sitting duck."

Hardy, the public policy director for Gun Owners of Utah, said a concealed weapon permit is "something every adult needs to consider."

For Dee Rowland, chairwoman of the Gun Violence Prevention Center, however, that statement is "absurd."

"Even my 9-year-old grandson said, 'How could that help?' "


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## dood (Jan 15, 2007)

Well if a 9-year-old can't understand a complex social issue, then obviously there's something wrong with the side I don't agree with.

This is how I know that String Theory is bogus, my 12-year-old cousin says it doesn't make any sense. :roll:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> 1. "But we do know what happens when there is no one with a concealed weapon in these situations - people die."
> 
> 2. "You can't protect against every madman with a firearm or a hand grenade. That sort of thing is going to happen from time to time."
> 
> 3. "Even my 9-year-old grandson said, 'How could that help?' "


1. +1 to that!

2. May it happen to him then. Good ol' "Oh well" mentality going on there. Idiot.

3. Yes. Let's use the logic of a 9 year old who is being raised by anti's to prove the point they are trying to get across. No bias there. Idiots.

Does anyone find it ironic that the last name of the Gun Violence Center guy is Gunn? He must hate himself.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

:smt083 

I always hate when someone quote the story and picks out silly stuff like that, and then it says "Shipwreck said" :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Remember everyone - I didn't write that "news" article...

:smt082 :smt082 :smt082


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I think most of us know that. You're safe. :mrgreen:


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> It appears as though off-duty Ogden police Officer Kenneth Hammond, *who carried a concealed weapon, stopped the killing spree*, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council.
> 
> "But we do know what happens when there is no one with a concealed weapon in these situations - people die."
> 
> ...


A ccw holder engaged the "madman" long enough for the cops to get there and deal with it. CCW is CCW no matter who is carrying.

It looks like Gary Sackett thinks it's bad to have a concealed weapon but it's "normal" for a "madman" to shoot people.


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## milquetoast (Nov 25, 2006)

*Inquiring minds want to know:*

Did the concealed weapon carrier actually fire shots? If so, how many shots? How many hits, how many misses? Where were the hits? What was the distance? If there were hits, what was the effect on the little puke (excuse me, "alleged perpetrator")? Shot back/ran away/went down? What gun? What ammo?

These seem like relevant facts, but so far, I haven't seen any reporter report them. Don't reporters ask questions any more? Or do they just print the police press release?


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