# 25 Yard Line Drills...



## SortaTactical

I have been spending a lot of time working on grouping shots accurately at 25-yards using a handgun (Glock 22) on a 10-ring bulls-eye target (shooting from a standing, unsupported position). Even though I have seen improvement through practice, the drills I have been using - which rely heavily on the repetitive application of the fundamentals (as all good drills should) - are becoming stale. I would like to change things up with some different drills to keep things interesting.

Does anyone have any suggestions of things that have worked for them?

Thanks,
SortaTactical...

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is final"


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## TAPnRACK

First, welcome to the forum...

I like to incorporate shooting on the move and positional shooting, utilizing cover and doing barricade work. Most distances are between 7 & 10 yards with max distance being 25 yards. 

To add stress to the drills, physical activity can be added to elevate your heart rate... if you've never done this, you should try it... you'd be surprised how much an elevated heart rate will challenge you. 

The One & One drill is a favorite drill of mine that uses speed, holster work, reloading (mag change) and point shooting.


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## denner

Try some reactive targets.


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## SouthernBoy

Oh boy. Drills at the range.

I use two sizes of paper plates (7" and 9") and two sizes of index cards (3"x5" and 4"x6") for targets. I use ranges of from 9 feet to 21 feet for my drill work, usually 12 to 15 feet, and do go out to 40 feet sometimes before or at wrapup. The indoor ranges I go to have target holders that you can time to flip from edge to face and back for single flips or multiple flips.

I warmup by using an index card at 9 to 12 feet and fire a few groups followed by a 7" paper plate at 12 to 15 feet for a group or two.

I use a 7" paper plate and set the target holder to flip from edge to face for three seconds where I do double taps from a high compressed ready position. I have the target flip two or three times for this.

I use a 9" paper plate on which I draw some random lines to create five separate blocks on the plate and number them one to five. Then I have the plate flip from edge to face five times as I try to hit the numbered blocks from 12 to 15 feet with two to three second face times.

I use a 7" plate with an index card on top (to simulate the chest and head) and do the Mozambique drill (two to center mass, one to head) on a flipping target at 12 to 15 feet with a face time of three seconds.

I do the same as above but use two 7" plates with two index cards to simulate two BG's for the double tap/single tap in four seconds.

I use a 7" paper plate at 12 to 15 feet for a flipping target for my draw and fire drills. The face time is three seconds and I will do two flips of this; sometimes more. When doing this with two targets, I use four seconds.

I do strong hand/weak hand drills at 12 to 15 feet on a stationary 7" paper plate.

I do both empty and tactical reloads with the flipping targets to increase the tension. I will had an extra second or two when doing these.


I do a more exercises that what I have outlined above, really whatever I can come up with.... tic-tac-toe with a friend for example. Point is, mix things up when at a range. Don't use strictly conventional targets but rather come up with some yourself (the Dot Torture Test is one). I've even used copy paper with drawn shapes for targets. And think of different drills that you can use to both test your skills and have some fun in the process.

Hope this helps.


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## SortaTactical

Thanks for the good feedback, I appreciate you all taking the time to reply. I was back at the range this morning working on applying those fundamentals - my mantra is "Front Sight - Trigger Press." I am able to keep all of my rounds on the target, but I simply want to get more round in the 10-ring and fewer in the 7-ring. I'll keep at it and work on mixing things in from time to time to keep it interesting.

Thanks again for the feedback...


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## pic

I seriously like the tic tac toe.


:smt115


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## budrock56

You folks that can hit it at 25 yds. I envy you. With a handgun? I'm not there yet. That is 75 feet! With my eyes I might need a scope for that. Haha.


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## SailDesign

Practice, practice, practice... I found my 22/45 Target model work improved after trying 25 yards with the little SR22 - When I got the SR down to a 10.5" group, I went back to the 22/45 again. Much better, but still have *loads* of work to do on that.

But then, range time is never a pain.


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## SouthernBoy

pic said:


> I seriously like the tic tac toe.
> 
> :smt115


The times I play Tic-Tac-Toe is when I am sharing a lane with a friend... like frequently (just two days ago for example). The best drills are the ones in which I, or we, have the target flip from edge to face and back multiple times and we fire two or three rounds per flip. Doing this from a low ready or high compressed ready or for draw and fire exercises is valuable practice. Add in the reloads and it gets even more interesting.


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## Dave_Sab

> You folks that can hit it at 25 yds. I envy you. With a handgun? I'm not there yet. That is 75 feet! With my eyes I might need a scope for that. Haha.





> Practice, practice, practice


Practice is the key. I generally shoot a few hundred rounds a month when we have our warm weather. I generally shoot at 20 yards. This is my last outing on the last mag. A few wild shots but overall I don't think it's too bad. I know a lot of people practice at 7-10 yards I just don't care to.









I've seriously started to give thoughts about reloading and started saving my brass over the last 2 months. Unless I've calculated wrong it wouldn't take long for me to recoup the cost of the equipment.


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## Steve M1911A1

I am always at a loss, on a NRA-style pistol range, where one is limited to shooting at 25 and 50 yards.
When I was shooting a lot, and even in competition, 25 yards was extreme pistol range. It's the point at which you think seriously about switching to a rifle (or a carbine).

I normally practice out to 20 yards, although in my old age I'm not doing very well out there, either.

If I were confronted with having to make a 25-yard shot with a pistol, I think that I would drop down to prone, just as I used to.
It takes me longer to get there, nowadays, and it's really hard to get back up, but it does certainly improve my ability to make effective hits.

The prone position I use makes a 45° angle to the target, with my feet to the left and the pistol centered. I am rolled slightly onto my right side. I shoot with bent elbows, but still in the Weaver geometry, with an almost-straight right arm in contact with the ground.
With your pistol firmly in your right hand, and from the beginning Weaver position, you collapse to your knees and catch yourself with your left hand, lowering your upper body into full prone and then rolling onto your right side a little. Meanwhile, you've been pushing your right hand forward and leftward, to meet your left hand for a two-hand hold.
To do a reload, you have to roll further onto your right side so that the dropping magazine clears your body, and you have room for your left hand to grab a new magazine and push it in.
It's easier to do than it sounds...with a little practice.

So there's a 25-yard drill for you to work on: Go to prone and make a few hits. Get back up. Do it again.


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## SailDesign

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I am always at a loss, on a NRA-style pistol range, where one is limited to shooting at 25 and 50 yards.
> When I was shooting a lot, and even in competition, 25 yards was extreme pistol range. It's the point at which you think seriously about switching to a rifle (or a carbine).
> 
> I normally practice out to 20 yards, although in my old age I'm not doing very well out there, either.
> 
> If I were confronted with having to make a 25-yard shot with a pistol, I think that I would drop down to prone, just as I used to.
> It takes me longer to get there, nowadays, and it's really hard to get back up, but it does certainly improve my ability to make effective hits.
> 
> The prone position I use makes a 45° angle to the target, with my feet to the left and the pistol centered. I am rolled slightly onto my right side. I shoot with bent elbows, but still in the Weaver geometry, with an almost-straight right arm in contact with the ground.
> With your pistol firmly in your right hand, and from the beginning Weaver position, you collapse to your knees and catch yourself with your left hand, lowering your upper body into full prone and then rolling onto your right side a little. Meanwhile, you've been pushing your right hand forward and leftward, to meet your left hand for a two-hand hold.
> To do a reload, you have to roll further onto your right side so that the dropping magazine clears your body, and you have room for your left hand to grab a new magazine and push it in.
> It's easier to do than it sounds...with a little practice.
> 
> So there's a 25-yard drill for you to work on: Go to prone and make a few hits. Get back up. Do it again.


You had my attention until the "get back up" part.....


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## CW

We generally use 10-15 yard pistol targets as most close encounters will be within that range. Try 4" paper plates at various positions on the target board. Put numbers on the plates and have someone call out random numbers. 3 shots fast.

Or try a steel challenge.


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## SortaTactical

In order to generate some additional interest to keep the discussion going,I'd like to explain why I think shooting from the 25 yard line helps you become a better shot and see where that takes us.

Slow fire shooting from the 25 yard line using a ten-ring bulls-eye target forces you to focus almost entirely on the fundamentals in order to shoot accurately. Whether you shoot from 3,5,7, or 15 yards the fundamentals must still be applied (at some level depending on what you're trying to do) in order to shoot accurately and with control.

Rigorous obedience to the fundamentals and frequent repetition in the application of those fundamentals will help you become a better shooter. I am not suggesting that 25 yard line shooting all there is, but it certainly worth serious consideration for tightening up a shooters fundamentals and become a better shot.

Shooting from the 25 yard line is by no means the most practical (or fun) pistol shooting exercise for most ardent combat or practical shooting enthusiast, but I'll wager that it will improve your shooting accuracy in both disciplines. 

What are your thoughts?


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## SailDesign

SortaTactical said:


> In order to generate some additional interest to keep the discussion going,I'd like to explain why I think shooting from the 25 yard line helps you become a better shot and see where that takes us.
> 
> Slow fire shooting from the 25 yard line using a ten-ring bulls-eye target forces you to focus almost entirely on the fundamentals in order to shoot accurately. Whether you shoot from 3,5,7, or 15 yards the fundamentals must still be applied (at some level depending on what you're trying to do) in order to shoot accurately and with control.
> 
> Rigorous obedience to the fundamentals and frequent repetition in the application of those fundamentals will help you become a better shooter. I am not suggesting that 25 yard line shooting all there is, but it certainly worth serious consideration for tightening up a shooters fundamentals and become a better shot.
> 
> Shooting from the 25 yard line is by no means the most practical (or fun) pistol shooting exercise for most ardent combat or practical shooting enthusiast, but I'll wager that it will improve your shooting accuracy in both disciplines.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Totally agree. If you can't hit your target, don't draw the gun. Something the Boston police have come under fire for recently, and even more applicable for civilians.


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## SouthernBoy

CW said:


> We generally use 10-15 yard pistol targets as most close encounters will be within that range. Try 4" paper plates at various positions on the target board. Put numbers on the plates and have someone call out random numbers. 3 shots fast.
> 
> Or try a steel challenge.


Statistics have shown that most civilian armed self defense encounters are well under 10 yards... closer to between 3 to 5 yards. But it is still a good idea to incorporate 10 yard drills in your training.

One of the drills I do with a friend and a shared lane is to use a paper plate on which I have drawn different shapes (4 to 5 of them) and numbered the shapes. If five shapes, I set the target holder to flip five times with face time of two to three seconds. When it goes to face, I call out a number and the other shooter must move from a ready position to shoot the number. This is a good drill, especially for people who are still in the earlier stages of their shooting. Oh, and the target is set to either 12 or 15 feet for this drill.


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## Sierra_Hunter

As a general rule, 25 yards is average pistol range for me. I was ashamed to be seen with my coworkers the last time we went to the range. I set up a target at 30 yards. And one at 150 yards. Most of the guys couldn't even hit the 30 yard target with a handgun, one couldn't hit it with a ar. Shooting off the hood of my truck I was hitting 2 out of 3 on the 150 yard target with my single six. Takes practice I guess. I keep my handguns zeroed at 50 yards. Honestly, I would be embarrassed to be shooting at 10 yards.


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## Sierra_Hunter

Dave_Sab said:


> Practice is the key. I generally shoot a few hundred rounds a month when we have our warm weather. I generally shoot at 20 yards. This is my last outing on the last mag. A few wild shots but overall I don't think it's too bad. I know a lot of people practice at 7-10 yards I just don't care to.
> 
> View attachment 1060
> 
> 
> I've seriously started to give thoughts about reloading and started saving my brass over the last 2 months. Unless I've calculated wrong it wouldn't take long for me to recoup the cost of the equipment.


Reloading is worth it. If I had to buy factory ammo I would never be able to go shooting.


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## Steve M1911A1

SouthernBoy said:


> Statistics have shown that most civilian armed self defense encounters are well under 10 yards... closer to between 3 to 5 yards. But it is still a good idea to incorporate 10 yard drills in your training...


Although I was never very good at standing on my hind legs and shooting at 25 yards, I believe, along with SortaTactical, that this practice is extraordinarily useful.
Even though you probably will never be called upon the shoot defensively at greater than seven yards, your 25-yard practice will sharpen your eye and stabilize your hands, and thereby make your seven-yard shooting quicker, more accurate, and much more instantly effective.



Sierra_Hunter said:


> ...Honestly, I would be embarrassed to be shooting at 10 yards.


Elitist! :smt076

Most of us shoot at seven, 10, and 15 yards, and points in-between. Some of us even practice out to 20 yards. But long-range practice with a pistol is the opposite of effective self-defense shooting practice.
In self defense, you need to be reasonably accurate and extremely quick. But long-range practice teaches you to be extremely accurate, and very slow and deliberate, and focussing on that can get you killed.

While you need 20- and 25-yard practice to sharpen your use of sight picture and your trigger control, you needn't do it very often. Expending one magazine-worth on it, per practice session, is probably quite enough.
The best use of your time is to practice short-range accuracy and smoothness. Especially the smoothness part. (Remember: "Smooth is faster than fast.")


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## Sierra_Hunter

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Although I was never very good at standing on my hind legs and shooting at 25 yards, I believe, along with SortaTactical, that this practice is extraordinarily useful.
> Even though you probably will never be called upon the shoot defensively at greater than seven yards, your 25-yard practice will sharpen your eye and stabilize your hands, and thereby make your seven-yard shooting quicker, more accurate, and much more instantly effective.
> 
> Elitist! :smt076
> 
> Most of us shoot at seven, 10, and 15 yards, and points in-between. Some of us even practice out to 20 yards. But long-range practice with a pistol is the opposite of effective self-defense shooting practice.
> In self defense, you need to be reasonably accurate and extremely quick. But long-range practice teaches you to be extremely accurate, and very slow and deliberate, and focussing on that can get you killed.
> 
> While you need 20- and 25-yard practice to sharpen your use of sight picture and your trigger control, you needn't do it very often. Expending one magazine-worth on it, per practice session, is probably quite enough.
> The best use of your time is to practice short-range accuracy and smoothness. Especially the smoothness part. (Remember: "Smooth is faster than fast.")


Where I live, really self defence is not a huge thing. My main use for a handgun, is coyotes. For me it's how far will that coyote be by the time I get the truck pulled over, get out and get a rest on the hood, and then be able to hit it at that distance so I practice out to 200 yards fairly regular.

Now I have worked on my quick drawing, but I still shoot at 25 yards. If I can't hit a man sized target at that range in my opinion, I shouldn't be carrying a gun.


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## SouthernBoy

Sierra_Hunter said:


> As a general rule, 25 yards is average pistol range for me. I was ashamed to be seen with my coworkers the last time we went to the range. I set up a target at 30 yards. And one at 150 yards. Most of the guys couldn't even hit the 30 yard target with a handgun, one couldn't hit it with a ar. Shooting off the hood of my truck I was hitting 2 out of 3 on the 150 yard target with my single six. Takes practice I guess. I keep my handguns zeroed at 50 yards. Honestly, I would be embarrassed to be shooting at 10 yards.


For hunting purposes, I also used to zero my handguns at 50 yards (I don't hunt anymore). But for defense training, I use a number of ranges since I expect that if I have to use my gun, the BG is not going to be that far away. More likely rather close.


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## SouthernBoy

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Even though you probably will never be called upon the shoot defensively at greater than seven yards, your 25-yard practice will sharpen your eye and stabilize your hands, and thereby make your seven-yard shooting quicker, more accurate, and much more instantly effective.


I do incorporate some longer range shooting in my defensive work. Generally that means from 30 to 45 feet but has include 25 yards, too. In recent years, about 3 1/2 years ago, most of my "close range" shooting was at 25 yards.


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