# Need help identifying 3 pistols



## Williamhoop1 (Dec 19, 2016)

Top is a single barrel smooth bore around 18" and is only marked f. Copeland on the whole gun, other is a Montenegrin gasser, don't know anything about it it's probably worthless, now next is an odd little pistol a .25 caliber DAO revolver that the cylinder swings out to the side instead of down, the only marking on the whole gun is "made in germany" any info on these would be appreciated


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

First one looks like some kind of "boot gun" appears to be Copeland firearms from Sterling Mass. Still looking for more info....


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## Williamhoop1 (Dec 19, 2016)

Thanks


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

The gasser doesn't appear to match any searches. The cylinder rod and ejector appear replaced. I wonder if it was damaged and poorly rebuilt.

The side swing-out lead to some hits on an old Iver Johnson swing out, along with the names Lovell, Shattuck, and Manhattan Arms (Belgian made) hits. Nothing serious but the swing-outs appear rare.
Could be experimental or an European attempt at the same design?


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## Williamhoop1 (Dec 19, 2016)

The gasser looks like it has some brass pieces, I figure it's a worthless wallhanger, any idea on value on the other two?


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## Williamhoop1 (Dec 19, 2016)

Are you saying it could be made by lovell, shattuck, or Manhattan arms, or are you saying that a unknown german company tried to make something similar to them


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

The topmost gun is for taking wildlife samples, for "rook hunting," or for small game.
It is missing its detachable shoulder stock, which slides into the groove at the bottom of its grip.
Properly speaking, it's a rifle (!), not a pistol. These takedown guns were once very popular among bicyclists and hikers.
I bet that it's a rimfire. Maybe a .32?

The middle pistol might be Belgian.
It seems to have had a sub-caliber barrel inserted into its "normal" bore. (But it's hard to tell.)
I don't believe that it's a Gasser, or a Rast-Gasser. Look for proof marks: Gassers are Austrian.
While its hammer and cylinder seem to have been made for center-fire or rim-fire cartridges, its frame seems to have been made for a pinfire cylinder.
Maybe it's a confabulation of available spare parts.

The bottom-most pistol bears a tag which states that it may be unique.
I suggest that this tag is very likely correct.
There are small middle-European revolvers which look something like this one, but none I've ever seen looks _exactly_ like it. (Of course, I'm no expert.)
I believe that it belongs to the class of bicyclist's pistols called "velo-dog." That is, it is for removing the threat to a bicyclist, of a dog chasing him or nipping at his legs as he pedals by. ("Velo" = _velocipede_, another word for bicycle.)
The fact that its trigger-guard releases and swings down is intriguing. What does doing that accomplish?


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## Williamhoop1 (Dec 19, 2016)

That is actually a page about the gasser rolled up and stuck in the barrel sorry, and that makes a lot of since about the stock missing on the rifle bc it has notch or groove on bottom of handguard, any idea on value on any of them?


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## Williamhoop1 (Dec 19, 2016)

The rifle is actually a .38 caliber, I found a choke and caliber guage and measures exactly .38, which 38 caliber is it?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

There is an entire website dedicated to the velo-dog gun, a few of which bear passing resemblance to yours.
Click on: www. velodogs. com - Home

Also, I believe that I have figured out why your velo-dog gun's trigger-guard is released by a catch.
I bet that, if the trigger-guard is released, it is _removable_. Then the pistol becomes (maybe) a folding-trigger mechanism, to better fit in the pocket.

I have no idea of the value of any of them. None of my references show any of them.
The velo-dog pistol might be the most valuable of the bunch.

About the game-getter-style "rifle," a .38 would measure about 0.355", inside the barrel-or maybe .358". It may even be a smoothbore "shotgun."
Looking at the hammer and firing pin, one might tell whether it's a center-fire or a rimfire cartridge.
I have no idea which cartridge it might be. It would be dangerous (to the user) to shoot it, anyway.


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> There is an entire website dedicated to the velo-dog gun, a few of which bear passing resemblance to yours.
> Click on: www. velodogs. com - Home


Interesting site. Quite a history lesson.
Thanks Steve!


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

Thanks for sharing the link Steve. 

Very interesting history lesson.
The Velodog cartridge looks more like a 22WMR+22 Hornet hybrid.
No doubt there are other gems out there to learn about.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

We endeavour to please, sir. -Jeeves, by P.G. Woodhouse


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