# Help me understand



## oak1971 (Apr 28, 2008)

Go into my local gun shop to check out the SIG inventory. Saw a few that caught my eye. But they were all 40 sw. And some looked familiar, as in been there a while. So i ask the retard behind the counter where all the 9mm and 45 acp are. "40 smith is the best selling caliber ever!" says he. So I point to several I KNOW have been there for months and ask why they have not been sold. Blank stare. The rest of the shelves are bare. 9mm and 45's sit for a day or 2 at most. I see it happen cause I stop in 3 times a week, and these guys are sitting on 10 40 sw Sigs. Some of them for months WTF?


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Apparently their lack of 9mm and .45 disproves this moron's theory. Sounds like he deserves:


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## dblshred (Jan 31, 2009)

The sad truth is that many retailers expect their employees to sell what is good for the store's bottom line, rather than doing what is best for the customer.  It's short sighted philosophy, valuing a quick buck over repeat customers. The "moron" probably knew he was lying. He was hoping to bamboozle a naive customer to sell stock on hand.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

dblshred said:


> The sad truth is that many retailers expect their employees to sell what is good for the store's bottom line, rather than doing what is best for the customer.


You're right there. I worked for Circuit City back in the mid 90's and we were always told what products to push. Forget what the customer actually needed, it was all about margin and then selling the service plan. Of course, we all know how that philosophy worked out for them.


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## Growler67 (Sep 8, 2008)

.40S&W is the chick in class. EVERYBODY thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. I've shot it in many makes and models and I'm not impressed. For the price of ammo, I can shoot more with my P220 and much more with any of my 9's. It casts about as much per box as .380. It might be popular, but I'm not nor have I ever bought into hype.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Growler67 said:


> .40S&W is the chick in class. EVERYBODY thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread.


It does seem to the the "in" caliber. Look at how many new members come here looking for advice on their first handgun and they want a .40. I had .40 and liked it, but never thought it was the best. It got replaced by a 9mm as my EDC. It sat in my safe for a year, just sold it and the 9mm that replaced it for .... another 9mm.


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## literaltrance (Dec 24, 2008)

Todd said:


> It does seem to the the "in" caliber. Look at how many new members come here looking for advice on their first handgun and they want a .40. I had .40 and liked it, but never thought it was the best. It got replaced by a 9mm as my EDC. It sat in my safe for a year, just sold it and the 9mm that replaced it for .... another 9mm.


In total agreement with you there. I was actually one of the guys who DID buy a 40S&W as a first firearm. After episodes of inaccuracy, blood blisters, and sore wrists I had to ask myself what was going on. I picked up a 45 ACP handgun because I was raised on a 1911 and I was much more at home.

Now I do need to be unbiased here: the 40S&W is not an unforgiving or battering round. The load is acceptable, not intimidating, and plenty effective. But the recoil is snappy, and if you are not used to shooting it, a few hundred shots IS going to take its toll on your hands.

From a marketing standpoint, the 40S&W does make a lot of sense. Handgun manufacturers are able to provide a heaver-hitting bullet in a pistol designed to house 9mm with the simple change of a barrel, unlike the 45ACP which additionally requires an entirely new frame, slide, and mags. To those who are willing to tame a snappy recoil, this makes a lot of sense.

But let's not forget how the 40S&W came to be. The Miami FBI Shootout in 1986 involved eight federal agents against two well-armed criminals, resulting in the deaths and/or injuries of several agents. The agents, despite successfully shooting their assailants multiple times, were not able to remove any immediate threat (in other words, no stopping power). This prompted the FBI to research a more powerful handgun load, and for a brief time turned to the 10mm. After complaints of agents regarding the recoil of the cartridge, S&W stepped in, shortened the case, and thus the 40S&W was born. It was two steps in the right direction and one step backwards if you ask me. You can read more about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

There is one common and glaringly obvious oversight: the criminals were armed with rifles and the onsight LEs were armed with, by today's standards, backup weapons. I think in any scenario, two people with superior firepower are going to be able to dictate a shootout against superior numbers who are armed with a substantially weaker arsenal. I think what ultimately needs to asked is if these agents were armed with either 40S&W handguns or even 10mm handguns, would the outcome be any different? I honestly think barely...if at all.


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## benzuncle (Aug 29, 2007)

It could be that the reason they only have 40's is the other calibers have been sold. I would think if everyone was buying the 40's, all that would be left in the case would be those "unwanted" calibers.


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## SaltyDog (Jan 1, 2009)

I like the .40. Before buying my Glock 23 I did quite a bit of ballistic research and fired the 40 and the 9mm. I don't have much trouble with the 40 but do shoot tighter groups with the 9mm. The 9mm is my practice round since the 9mm is a lot cheaper,

I believe if I remember correctly the .40 was adopted, as Litraltrance mentioned, due to it's the stopping power. The .40 has little more penetration than the 9mm but not as much as the .45. The .40 has quite a bit more energy at impact than the 9mm. When I did the research there was no +p so that may have changed the energy aspect of the 9mm.

I'll not argue which is the best and I carry both the 9mm+P and the .40 and feel confident they both will deter a threat. I think it all comes down to the type of ammo you use and how well you can hit the target.


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## oak1971 (Apr 28, 2008)

benzuncle said:


> It could be that the reason they only have 40's is the other calibers have been sold. I would think if everyone was buying the 40's, all that would be left in the case would be those "unwanted" calibers.


That was my thought as well.


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## oak1971 (Apr 28, 2008)

dblshred said:


> The sad truth is that many retailers expect their employees to sell what is good for the store's bottom line, rather than doing what is best for the customer.  It's short sighted philosophy, valuing a quick buck over repeat customers. The "moron" probably knew he was lying. He was hoping to bamboozle a naive customer to sell stock on hand.


Yes they always try to sell whats in the case. Sometimes they have what I want. Most of the time I need to order it. I was in there today and they tried to sell me something I didn't want. I reminded them once again that I decide what I want/need, not them. They never learn.


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## oak1971 (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks for the info on the FBI shooting.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

I've seen a lot of people getting handguns chambered on the 40 round. Many tell me they didn't like a 9mm and didn't want a 45. I own two and really like them. I don't think it's the best round ever. It is a good one though. I'm not sure about the don't want a 45 because of recoil then get a 40. Being a 40 has a pretty snappy recoil especially in a smaller firearm. To each their own I guess. I think both fall short to a 45 ACP but that's just my thing. I like those big slow moving rounds I guess:mrgreen:

Shops will have contests that manufacturers, and distributors will give prizes for moving one product or another. I'd say that's why he had a bunch of 40's. He sells X amount and he gets some neat-o cool thingie. The prizes can be as cool as a weapon to the one that sells the most..whatever in a month etc.

The round is a good one though. It's not for everyone but it will get done what you want it to. I personally like it for target shooting. It works a lot better for longer distances for me. My buddies and me get to some pretty wild contests. Shooting at 50 yards and over trying to shoot at something that is way over what anyone will ever "have to" with a pistol. But it is a blast. I guess that's a perk of being able to shoot at home. A few of us have enough land to set up to do some wild stuff. a golf ball at 50 yards is pretty common at my place. At another friends it's a branch on a tree next to a pond that we can set up to shoot as far as 125 yards. I can never get a 9mm or a 45 even to get in the groove without spending a lot of ammo. For some reason with a 40 I get in that groove a lot sooner. Maybe it's bullet speed vs weight, I really don't know. it just works:smt082

I think a lot of new shooters get a 40 mainly because they see a 9mm as a weak round probably because someone told them so. and they don't want to get a 45 because that HAS to have too much recoil so they meet in the middle. 

For whatever reason I don't see the 40 fading away any time soon. I do think that shop in the OP's post was putting all their eggs in the wrong basket.


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## The New Guy (Nov 12, 2008)

I purchased my first pistol last week (Kahr PM40). I would have gone for the 9, but they wanted an extra $80. I pay about $2 more per box of ammo and this is far from a range/target/fun gun, so I see it as a non issue.

Weighing in at a little over 16oz loaded, it is taxing on the wrists.

edit: And in response to an earlier post, I got my first blood blister yesterday! lol


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