# Has anyone considered buying a Glock and was ready to, but decided not to because...



## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

The safety issues that lie within?

I'm almost about ready to pull the trigger on a glock but I cant get over the safety issue. Am I over-reacting? Has anyone else ever gone through this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## Broondog (Feb 1, 2013)

TheLAGuy said:


> The safety issues that lie within? *No.*
> 
> I'm almost about ready to pull the trigger on a glock but I cant get over the safety issue. Am I over-reacting? *Quite possibly. * Has anyone else ever gone through this? *Not me*.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!


do you fret like this over everything?


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## Cyn (Mar 12, 2013)

I'm relatively new to pistols so forgive me if I am naive but what safety issues do you speak of? Do you mean the fact that there is no safety on the gun except for the trigger? If so its more than proved itself adequate and I would not worry much about it. It wont fire unless you pull the trigger.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Cyn said:


> I'm relatively new to pistols so forgive me if I am naive but what safety issues do you speak of? Do you mean the fact that there is no safety on the gun except for the trigger? If so its more than proved itself adequate and I would not worry much about it. It wont fire unless *you* pull the trigger.


I think the appropriate statment would be "it won't fire unless _something_ causes the trigger to be pulled."


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

TheLAGuy said:


> The safety issues that lie within?
> 
> I'm almost about ready to pull the trigger on a glock but I cant get over the safety issue. Am I over-reacting? Has anyone else ever gone through this?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!


There is no safety issue with the Glock design of which I am aware. It was designed the way it was for a purpose and that purpose fits many people's needs. For my carry guns, I don't want any externally activated safeties. All I want to have to think or worry about is pulling the gun and pulling the trigger (pull and pull). Anything else just gets in my way. Granted that is an entirely personal preference but it must also be the personal preference of one hell of a lot of people.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Cyn said:


> I'm relatively new to pistols so forgive me if I am naive but what safety issues do you speak of? *Do you mean the fact that there is no safety on the gun except for the trigger?* If so its more than proved itself adequate and I would not worry much about it. It wont fire unless you pull the trigger.


This is an incorrect statement. Investigate how a Glock operates and you'll quickly see that it is in error.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I have only one Glock, and it's a model 21C.

I like it for it's simplicity and ease of operation. But, I feel one Glock is enough for now. That's not to say that I don't like them. 

I recently bought a SA XD-45. It too, feels like a Glock to me. So, maybe I have a Glock and a half. :mrgreen:


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> This is an incorrect statement. Investigate how a Glock operates and you'll quickly see that it is in error.


I'm no Glock expert. Please school me further.


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## Ala Tom (Apr 1, 2011)

The Glock fans influenced the S&W M&P fans who influenced me when I bought my first modern pistol for home defense. I bought a S&W M&P 40 with no safeties except the magazine safety and an internal lock. Shortly after buying it I decided the internal lock was worthless most of the time - maybe when I travel and put the gun in checked baggage. My kids are grown and the granddaughter is getting that way. So I just ignore the lock leaving the key home and the gun unlocked. I like this gun a lot and have converted it to .357 Sig.

But a gun I bought for CC is another matter. It's a Ruger SR40c and has a thumb safety in addition to the magazine lock (no internal lock). I have carried both a little but the Ruger is my preferred carry piece because of the safety. I think it depends on your style of holster and method of concealment that really matters. I prefer an IWB holster. Getting it out is not too bad but there can be complications where clothing snags on it. Putting it away takes special care. I carried it daily for about two weeks and got pretty good with this rig.

I am considering getting a Glock 30 in .45 ACP for both home defense and self defense. I like the way the gun handles and shoots but I have not yet considered the holster problem except that I'd look for a different style holster - maybe a shoulder holster. I found the gun at least as easy to shoot accurately as the Ruger or M&P and as compact as the Ruger.

Always looking for suggestions.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> I'm no Glock expert. Please school me further.


The Glock has an internal safety in the form of a safety block or as some call it, a striker block. There is a cam on the trigger bar that contacts this block and as the trigger bar is pulled rearward, the cam pushes the block up further into the slide which frees up the striker to move forward to discharge a cartridge when released.

My guess is that Cyn was thinking that there is no settable external safety on a Glock, however he didn't mention this in his post.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

TheLAGuy said:


> The safety issues that lie within?
> 
> I'm almost about ready to pull the trigger on a glock but I cant get over the safety issue. Am I over-reacting? Has anyone else ever gone through this?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!


No Glocks,Pass on the Glock, Stick with an external safety handgun. Much safer. Unless you get into a long double action, single action handgun.. You do not CCW . Your wife is just about to shoot one of your guns at the range.Glock will freak her out,lol. This is just my personal opinion about a glock. I own and carry a Glock but there are so many far superior guns to chose .


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Ala Tom said:


> The Glock fans influenced the S&W M&P fans who influenced me when I bought my first modern pistol for home defense. I bought a S&W M&P 40 with no safeties except the magazine safety and an internal lock. Shortly after buying it I decided the internal lock was worthless most of the time - maybe when I travel and put the gun in checked baggage. My kids are grown and the granddaughter is getting that way. So I just ignore the lock leaving the key home and the gun unlocked. I like this gun a lot and have converted it to .357 Sig.
> 
> But a gun I bought for CC is another matter. It's a Ruger SR40c and has a thumb safety in addition to the magazine lock (no internal lock). I have carried both a little but the Ruger is my preferred carry piece because of the safety. I think it depends on your style of holster and method of concealment that really matters. I prefer an IWB holster. Getting it out is not too bad but there can be complications where clothing snags on it. Putting it away takes special care. I carried it daily for about two weeks and got pretty good with this rig.
> 
> ...


I have three M&Ps and find them to be excellent shooters. Quite accurate and a very comfortable design with some of the best ergonomics going.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

pic said:


> No Glocks,Pass on the Glock, Stick with an external safety handgun. Much safer. Unless you get into a long double action, single action handgun.. You do not CCW . Your wife is just about to shoot one of your guns at the range.. This is just my personal opinion about a glock. I own and carry a Glock but there are so many far superior guns to chose .


Don't have a clue where you get any of this from. Not a flame, just an observation.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> The Glock has an internal safety in the form of a safety block or as some call it, a striker block. There is a cam on the trigger bar that contacts this block and as the trigger bar is pulled rearward, the cam pushes the block up further into the slide which frees up the striker to move forward to discharge a cartridge when released.
> 
> My guess is that Cyn was thinking that there is no settable external safety on a Glock, however he didn't mention this in his post.


Some would call that a safety feature not "a safety" in the sense of an external safety.

To put all this BS into proper context...

LaGuy is aware of a perceived safety issue with the Glock to which Cyn is asking if the perceived issue is due to the lack of an external safety other than "the trigger" as pulling the trigger either by the individual or foreign object renders the internal safety or safety features of the gun useless .....

Personally, I think it was Col Mustard in the conservatory with the revolver.

Who wants to argue clip vs magazine instead?


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## valent (Mar 18, 2013)

TheLAGuy said:


> The safety issues that lie within?
> 
> I'm almost about ready to pull the trigger on a glock but I cant get over the safety issue. Am I over-reacting? Has anyone else ever gone through this?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Springfield XD for less asured. Excelent weapon with five diferent safties. I went with DA/SA in a different brand and don't feel like I'm missing anything.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

SouthernBoy said:


> Don't have a clue where you get any of this from. Not a flame, just an observation.


That's quite ok , I do get very blunt with my personal opinion,lol. LaGUY has reservations about the glock without a safety, he states this in his post. I think in my own opinion the glock has a reliable reputation. But quality and craftsmanship the GLOCK lacks in that respect. I respect and own a reliable Glock,. I always recommend for beginners ,,,is to buy an exposed hammer with an external safety. A glock is to be respected ,and never become over confident. That obviously pertains to all firearms . But more with a GLOCK


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm just kinda curious as to how you guys think that Glock is superior without those safety interlock because I really like the way they look and handle. Just unsure about the safety interlocks.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> I'm just kinda curious as to how you guys think that Glock is superior without those safety interlock because I really like the way they look and handle. Just unsure about the safety interlocks.


A manual safety doesn't really make a gun better or worse than another gun. Glock's following has very little to do with the absence of the safety but how well they perform given their price point and the specs that go with them.

There's a lot of guns out there that don't have a manual safety.

As to the question, my wife was very anti safety-less pistols for a long time and wouldn't carry one / didn't like guns without a manual safety. What's she packing now? A Glock 19 or 26.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Ahh so she got over it? Nice!


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> The Glock has an internal safety in the form of a safety block or as some call it, a striker block. There is a cam on the trigger bar that contacts this block and as the trigger bar is pulled rearward, the cam pushes the block up further into the slide which frees up the striker to move forward to discharge a cartridge when released.
> 
> My guess is that Cyn was thinking that there is no settable external safety on a Glock, however he didn't mention this in his post.


Okay, I knew this already, but thanks for elaborating on it.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Would you say a G17 is superior to a PX4 Storm?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Not quite sure why so many are uptight about a semi-auto pistol w/o a physical safety lever of some kind on it. 

I have a lot of revolvers. Not one has a safety of any kind on them. I'll pack them just as handy as I would as any semi-auto.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> Would you say a G17 is superior to a PX4 Storm?


That question is entirely subjective. "The best", "superior" etc is entirely an argument of opinion and is rarely concrete.

The pros and cons of any quality firearm are often polar opposites of each other. You keep asking the same people the same question which has no answer.

Both are great guns but it would be hard to call one superior to the other based on factual analysis.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> Ahh so she got over it? Nice!


Yeah, its just a matter of comfort and understanding. As far as Glocks and guns with a manual safety...they are as safe or dangerous as the person using them. Treat every gun with or without a safety (and your gear) with the deadly respect they deserve and you'll be fine.

It takes time to get comfortable with X gun, if YOU feel you are more safe with a gun that has a manual safety (here's a hint, if you have to keep asking about it, you're probably not ready to own a Glock and there's nothing wrong with that) you probably will be more safe with that gun.

As for why some people have hang ups on it, there's different reasons.

When my wife was in her teens a friend of hers was visiting and she found an improperly stored firearm and the only thing that prevented a negligent discharge was the thumb safety the pistol was equipped with.

For some people its just a matter of preconceived notions about firearms with no firsthand understanding of firearms.

It was never really an issue for me as I've preferred the 1911 for so long that while I no longer carry one I still prefer to have a thumb safety so that should I revert back to a 1911 I still have the same basic operation.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Mr LaGUY. YOU might want to try one of those H & K guns. You would be looking good at the firing range:supz:


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> Mr LaGUY. YOU might want to try one of those H & K guns. You would be looking good at the firing range


Totally not true, not enough people even know what they look like.:anim_lol:


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## high pockets (Apr 25, 2011)

:smt180, with an HK


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## SteamboatWillie (Jan 24, 2013)

My opinion is that the issue with safety comes from the user, not the pistol. If you learn and practice to keep your finger off the trigger it is very unlikely that any gun, including a Glock, will fire unintentionally.

And when you field strip a Glock, or any other pistol that will slide lock, don't just drop the mag and rack the slide once to look for a chambered round. Drop the mag, LOCK the slide back, check both visually AND physically that there is no round in the chamber. Now the gun is safe.

I hear stories of people reversing the order and rack the slide first, this ejects the chambered round but loads another from the magazine. Then they drop the magazine and assume the gun is safe. When they pull the trigger to field strip they get a bang instead of a click.

I shoot/carry Sigs and Glocks. Observe the four rules of safety. Clear the gun properly. Don't be in a hurry to holster a firearm, any firearm, and YOU will be safe. As I said, IMO of course.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

SteamboatWillie said:


> My opinion is that the issue with safety comes from the user, not the pistol. If you learn and practice to keep your finger off the trigger it is very unlikely that any gun, including a Glock, will fire unintentionally.
> 
> And when you field strip a Glock, or any other pistol that will slide lock, don't just drop the mag and rack the slide once to look for a chambered round. Drop the mag, LOCK the slide back, check both visually AND physically that there is no round in the chamber. Now the gun is safe.
> 
> ...


 That is true,, I have seen someone rack the slide first,,, and then drop the mag..He was in shock when I asked ABOUT THE ROUND IN THE CHAMBER,LOL.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

VAMarine said:


> Yeah, its just a matter of comfort and understanding. As far as Glocks and guns with a manual safety...they are as safe or dangerous as the person using them. Treat every gun with or without a safety (and your gear) with the deadly respect they deserve and you'll be fine.
> 
> It takes time to get comfortable with X gun, if YOU feel you are more safe with a gun that has a manual safety (here's a hint, if you have to keep asking about it, you're probably not ready to own a Glock and there's nothing wrong with that) you probably will be more safe with that gun.
> 
> ...


Very well written.... well done, sir.

I am a firm believer that one would use and carry the gun that best fits their particular wants, needs, and desires. I am perfectly willing to offer opinions and information when asked and to help dispel disinformation where I see it and know the correct answers/responses (I have been corrected myself a number of times so none of us are immune from learning).

But a well written post and I couldn't agree more.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

SteamboatWillie said:


> My opinion is that the issue with safety comes from the user, not the pistol. If you learn and practice to keep your finger off the trigger it is very unlikely that any gun, including a Glock, will fire unintentionally.
> 
> And when you field strip a Glock, or any other pistol that will slide lock, don't just drop the mag and rack the slide once to look for a chambered round. Drop the mag, LOCK the slide back, check both visually AND physically that there is no round in the chamber. Now the gun is safe.
> 
> ...


Several years back, a member of another website did this and managed to put a hole in the floor of one of his rooms. Another member on some website wasn't so luckly. His .45ACP Glock put a partial hole in his hand. He had the presence of taking a picture of his hand and posting it as a lesson to others to be careful when unloading and stripping their guns. Both of these incidents involved Glocks but they could have just as well been any gun which disassembles in a similar manner. The worse case of something like this happened to a man that use to work at the same place I did, though on a different project (my last job before retiring). He actually lived not far from from me. In June 2010, while "cleaning his gun", he had a mishap which resulted in his death. Don't know the intimate details other than that and there are questions as to what actually happened, but that was the "official" cause of his death: a firearms accident.

I am religious about how I handle any firearm and I still to those principals like glue. They have worked well for me for 45 years and I expect them to continue to do so. Like you, I perform a visual inspection followed by a physical check, and then another visual. When a bullet begins its journey down a barrel, there isn't any calling it back. It's a one-time mistake and the damage incurred is merely a result of where that barrel is pointing when the bullet exits. Common sense, proper handling procedures, and NEVER varying from this will insure that you or someone else continues breathing.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I've owned a lot of guns over the years - with all the various trigger styles.

Currently - I personally prefer DA/SA. I have a factory "D" spring in all of my 92's - so the first DA pull is brought down from 11.5lbs to just over 8 lbs. I shoot very well with it. Its not hard to shoot on the first shot, and I practice all the time.

However, it's still a heavy enough, and long enough, first pull that it keeps me from doing something by accident. When I carry IWB, occasionally I have had my shirt get caught in the holster while holstering the gun - if this happens with a Glock, it can be bad news. With a Beretta - nothing will ever happen.

So called "experts" and Glock fanatics love to talk about their fav gun in a favorable light - but the truth is, police departments have had negligent discharges increase tremendously after they switched to Glocks. I am friends with several cops - I have been told that in large departments, they have a up to a few of these incidents A WEEK. The public just never knows. And these are departments that had zero years negligent discharges years back, when other guns were carried.

Anyway - after a near robbery a few years ago - I personally saw how things change in your mind when the adrenaline kicks in. Things are not the same as when you sit at your computer, typing responses to this thread - stating that a Glock is just as safe as any other gun. 

Also, its nice to say not to put your finger in the trigger guard, and that the "real safety is between your ears." But people make mistakes - they make them all day long... At home, at work, in the car.. Some are minor boo boos - some are major. People are not perfect. Serious gun "experts" have had their own negligent discharges at one time or another. It happens. Odds are that with a gun with this kind of trigger, I say its more likely to happen.

However - if you choose to get a Glock and like it - that's fine. When I was younger, I was more concerned with having a gun that was the same on every trigger pull. I am older now, have experienced different things, and this is my current preference.

I personally like that extra insurance of the heavier trigger. Should everyone follow my advice - I'm not saying that. But, this holds true for me - it's my opinion, and 'm just sharing it. Discard it if you like (and I am only putting it this way - as I've been on gun forum for 10 years now, and I know how some people get over this topic)


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

As for external safeties; to have them or not.

As VAMarine so well wrote above, the use or not of these is a personal preference and that is how it should be... a choice made by someone based upon a number of factors which to them, are relevant and make them more comfortable using and carrying their sidearm. My reasons for not wanting any external, settable safeties are simple in my opinion and for me, make sense in light of how I train, carry, and keep my SD handguns in the home for defense.

As to carrying, I don't want anything to get in the way, to interrupt, my access and use of my sidearm should I ever have to use it in my or someone else's defense. All I want to do is to "pull and pull"; pull the gun and pull the trigger. In an extreme encounter I figure I am going to have enough to worry about that having to flick a safety off or rack a slide (if the chamber is empty as some would prefer) is not going to work in my favor. I have heard for years that fine motor skills go out the window in extreme situations and it is not at all uncommon to mess up when having to put your gun in full battery under those sort of conditions. So with me, I employ a kydex retention holster that completely covers the trigger guard but also allows full access to the gun's grip. I keep a round chambered and I don't buy carry guns with external safeties. That gun is only allowed to be in two states: fully at rest or completely ready to fire and these two conditions are based solely upon whether or not the gun is in my hand. This is how I train, this is how I carry, and this works very well for me.

Of course none of us, including mysekf, are going to know if we've taken the correct decision with all of this until the time comes when we have to use it. It will be at that moment when we know we have either done well with our planning or made a terrible mistake. And we will only know for that specific incident. If we survive and it happens again, the situation could be entirely different.

So as VAMarine said, pick what's comfortable for you, what works best and best serves your wants and needs, then train, train, train. And pray you never have to use it because there are no guarantees that you'll win.


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## slickab (Nov 29, 2011)

A lot of good info here, interesting thread, a good read.
I adhere to the KISS principle. I love nothing more than fondling a fine 1911.
I personally find a Glock hard to conceal. I do not print with my CCW. Always carry, never tell.
But, when, if, the SHTF, the grim task at hand will be faced with an AR and a Glock.


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## celticpiping (Dec 6, 2012)

Not an expert, but I was facing my first semi auto pistol purchase mere months ago.
I looked hard at Glock, but in the end settled on a Sig full frame P-250 in .40 
Truthfully, I really liked the looks of the thing, and the reputation seemed rock solid.
I've grown even happier with my choice after not only shooting it, but reading from so many
how they "love their Sig"
Not sure there's really a "poor" choice, outside of a cheaply made piece.

good luck sir!
Rich


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Are HK's known as sissy guns or something? I don't get the post above.....


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> Are HK's known as sissy guns or something? I don't get the post above.....


Yes, yes they are you should not buy one.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

VAMarine said:


> Yes, yes they are you should not buy one.


I'd never make fun of you VAMarine.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> I'd never make fun of you VAMarine.


:numbchuck: Probably a wise choice. :mrgreen:

As for the HK comments, not sure which angle Pic was going for, there's too many to consider.

...

Any way,

If you want a Glock-like pistol with a safety, just get an M&P with thumb safety, it looks like at least one of them is legal for sale in CA.

...or if you really wanted to you could buy an *HK USP.*


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

VAMarine said:


> :numbchuck: Probably a wise choice. :mrgreen:
> 
> As for the HK comments, not sure which angle Pic was going for, there's too many to consider.
> 
> ...


Is it possible to modify your glock and put a thumb safety on it?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> Is it possible to modify your glock and put a thumb safety on it?


Yes, much to the dismay of many.,

*Cominolli Custom*, personally, I think the lever is too small.

I think the Ruger *SR9* is Ca approved.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I took do not wanna have a manual safety to move - I want a gun I can grab and go. I don't need one more thing to think about.

At one time 1911s were second nature to me. They aren't anymore - I've had too many other platforms. I just want that slightly heavier 1st shot.


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I know to keep my finger off the trigger until I am ready to shoot. When I do need to shoot I don't have time for a manual safety if a guy is running at me with a knife. I carry a S&W 3913 sometimes and a 1911 but by far I carry a Glock when I feel I need a gun.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Shipwreck said:


> I've owned a lot of guns over the years - with all the various trigger styles.
> 
> Currently - I personally prefer DA/SA. I have a factory "D" spring in all of my 92's - so the first DA pull is brought down from 11.5lbs to just over 8 lbs. I shoot very well with it. Its not hard to shoot on the first shot, and I practice all the time.
> 
> ...


Yep, I concur 100%. Although my 92G has the heavy trigger spring and I've put so much time in shooting it, I've conditioned myself to shoot very well on the first pull. It can be done folks. Haven't been "Beretta Legged yet", nor have I heard of any. Likewise, it's interesting to note the US Armed forces have had an impeccable safety rate with the M9 vs negligent discharges. That being said I'd own a Glock in a heart beat, just a different platform w/ advantages and disadvantages just like any other platform. LAGuy, are you ready for the Glock? I've heard once you go Glock you don't come back.


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## XD40inAVL (Feb 1, 2013)

Didn't know which gun I wanted, but looking at 9mm to .45 semi-auto, but as I learned more about modern handguns, and their features, the Glock was the first to be removed from the list.

"the bang switch is the safety" and the only one......... pass.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> Yeah, its just a matter of comfort and understanding. As far as Glocks and guns with a manual safety...they are as safe or dangerous as the person using them. Treat every gun with or without a safety (and your gear) with the deadly respect they deserve and you'll be fine.
> 
> It takes time to get comfortable with X gun, if YOU feel you are more safe with a gun that has a manual safety (here's a hint, if you have to keep asking about it, you're probably not ready to own a Glock and there's nothing wrong with that) you probably will be more safe with that gun.
> 
> ...


I would strike out the word comfort and add awareness. Comfort can lead to complacency or being over confident. I guess it boils down to how the comfort was achieved and the level of awareness maintained throughout the "comfortable" feeling.:smt180


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

denner said:


> Yep, I concur 100%. Although my 92G has the heavy trigger spring and I've put so much time in shooting it, I've conditioned myself to shoot very well on the first pull. It can be done folks. Haven't been "Beretta Legged yet", nor have I heard of any. Likewise*, it's interesting to note the US Armed forces have had an impeccable safety rate with the M9 vs negligent discharges. *That being said I'd own a Glock in a heart beat, just a different platform w/ advantages and disadvantages just like any other platform. LAGuy, are you ready for the Glock? I've heard once you go Glock you don't come back.


I'd just like to take some time to address the part in bold, I'm not sure if Denner has served or not, if so cool beans thanks for your service and all that.

If not, you and a lot of the private sector have a misconception about the Military and handguns.

1: Not everyone in the Military rates a pistol. Outside of the Military Police, Special Ops Guys and very few other occupational specialties the only people that rate pistols are staff and officers, so you're looking at Military officers which in the Army and Marine Corps aren't that many. From the Marine Corps Perspective (which I'm a little familiar with more so than Navy, Air Force, or the Army but they operate in similar fashion) the* Marine Corps *is about 180K strong give or take a couple thousand, about 20K Officers, 160K Enlisted...of those 160,000; 130,000 +/- are under the rank of E6 (staff). A very, very large majority of those 130K will never hold a handgun.

2: Unless in active combat, actively on the firing line, in role as guard, or serving as Military police, you do not have ammo or a gun on duty. With the exception of the Military Police, those that are on guard duty have a magazine with ammo, but the chamber is empty ala' condition 3.

3: When armed, even "in country" unless in an active combat zone, weapons are typically carried C3.

4: Even when carried condition 1, the pistol is the secondary weapon system, not the primary. The M16A_ / M4 are the primary weapons systems other than crew served weapons etc. Pistols are rarely used in combat and when they are, the shit has really hit the fan.







​
5: In garrison (state side, not deployed etc.) every camp or "area" has what is called a clearing barrel which serves as a place to unload a weapon if it has been loaded. Even with all the safety procedures etc. sometimes guns "go off" and the barrel is actually used.

6: Negligent discharges do happen in the Military, more so with rifles / medium machine guns etc as those are the primary weapons systems etc. but they do happen with pistols as well. We had a couple of guys @ Camp Pendleton decide to play quick draw while on duty and guess what, yup someone got shot.

So, while there aren't many negligent discharges in the Military, it doesn't have a lot to do with the Beretta. It has more to do with the low levels of pistol usage and low levels of people actually being capable of having a negligent discharge due to the guns not being loaded in the first place and at bare minimum the fact that the four rules of firearms safety are drilled in pretty early and are typically pretty well adhered to.

None of the above is meant to detract from the Beretta, it's a fine piece but it's not as common in use as many would believe.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

pic said:


> I would strike out the word comfort and add awareness. Comfort can lead t-o complacency or being over confident. I guess it boils down to how the comfort was achieved and the level of awareness maintained throughout the "comfortable" feeling.


Po-tato / pota-to. One can be very aware of the capabilities / features of the gun and still not be comfortable with it. Just look at threads where people are "disturbed" by cocked and locked 1911s, they understand and are aware that there is pretty much no way the gun is going to fire with thumb safety/grip safety combo but they still aren't comfortable with the idea.

Choose whatever word you want. :smt1099


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

VAMarine said:


> I'd just like to take some time to address the part in bold, I'm not sure if Denner has served or not, if so cool beans thanks for your service and all that.
> 
> If not, you and a lot of the private sector have a misconception about the Military and handguns.
> 
> ...


Yes I served (Army) and yes I agree with you. Many enlisted GI's, Marines etc. never are issued side arms, or live ammunition, unless of course in direct conflict or are pretty darn close. Officers, machine gunners, radio operators, corpsmen, armorers, pilots, air crew, MP's. The only time I had live ammo for a M-16 and Colt .45 on duty was as a Hummer driver transporting enlisted prisoners to Mannheim while stationed in Germany. However, since the late 80's we have been in quite a few conflicts and Wars in which many troops would be armed with the M9 w/ live ammo to include: Honduras, Panama, War in Iraq, Kuwait, Somalia, War in Afghanistan..etc.. And yes, this could be a stacked statement as the information concerning the M9's safety record was reported from Beretta themselves. VA, do you have the story about the 3 marines above?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Lots of goof-balls in the military. 

For the most part, they're the ones that usually have the A/D's and/or N/D's. 

Just sayin........:smt1099


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

VAMarine said:


> Po-tato / pota-to. One can be very aware of the capabilities / features of the gun and still not be comfortable with it. Just look at threads where people are "disturbed" by cocked and locked 1911s, they understand and are aware that there is pretty much no way the gun is going to fire with thumb safety/grip safety combo but they still aren't comfortable with the idea.
> 
> Choose whatever word you want. :smt1099


to -may- toe / to mah toe ,,, this is the word I'm more comfortable with, lol. 
just getting a little to picky ,lol.

There are many knowledgeable posts and stickys on this forum. Keep up the great advice.

You and a few other's are the reason I keep coming back.. YOU ARE TO BLAME, lol
:smt023


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Would you say that a Sig is better option for someone of my sort?


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

TheLAGuy said:


> Would you say that a Sig is better option for someone of my sort?


No way. Not manly enough. Needs more girth.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

denner said:


> Yes I served (Army) and yes I agree with you. Many enlisted GI's, Marines etc. never are issued side arms, or live ammunition, unless of course in direct conflict or are pretty darn close. Officers, machine gunners, radio operators, corpsmen, armorers, pilots, air crew, MP's. The only time I had live ammo for a M-16 and Colt .45 on duty was as a Hummer driver transporting enlisted prisoners to Mannheim while stationed in Germany. However, since the late 80's we have been in quite a few conflicts and Wars in which many troops would be armed with the M9 w/ live ammo to include: Honduras, Panama, War in Iraq, Kuwait, Somalia, War in Afghanistan..etc.. And yes, this could be a stacked statement as the information concerning the M9's safety record was reported from Beretta themselves. VA, do you have the story about the 3 marines above?


Yeah we've been through some conflicts, but again the pistol is not the _primary _weapons system, it's pretty much one step above an E-Tool or combat knife. Pistols are very rarely used in combat.

As for the three Marines above, the Marine in the center is native Iowan Brad Kasal, a 1st Sgt at the time of the photo.



> On Nov. 13, 2004, while serving as the company first sergeant for Weapons Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, Kasal accompanied members of 1st Section, Combined Anti-Armor Platoon, during the Battle of Fallujah. Kasal and another Marine came under heavy rifle fire and were both severely wounded in the legs, immobilizing them. When insurgents threw grenades in an attempt to eliminate the wounded Marines, he rolled on top of his fellow Marine and absorbed the shrapnel with his own body. Kasal then refused medical attention and evacuation until the other Marines were attended to. Although his wounds were severe, Kasal continued to direct Marines and shout encouragement until the building was clear. On May 1, 2006, Kasal was awarded the Navy Cross for his actions on that fateful day.


You can read his story *HERE*.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

TurboHonda said:


> No way. Not manly enough. Needs more girth.


That's all you had to say!


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

TheLAGuy...

From reading your posts, you should probly stick to firearms with safeties on em'.

Once your comfortable, I'd move into striker fired (no safety) or DA/SA (decocker) type handguns.

This is not a knock or insult, just friendly advise to someone new to handguns who obviously has safety concerns.

P.S., Nothing more manly than a Sig... except maybe a Beretta, lol.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> TheLAGuy...
> 
> From reading your posts, you should probly stick to firearms with safeties on em'.
> 
> ...


Yes, I too agree. Not trying to knock you or be a smart-azz, but from what you've implied on this forum, you need some experience under your belt. Nothing wrong with that either. We've all been there! :smt023


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks guys! I have a PX4 storm (9mm) Type F and I love it. I am new to the game and I appreciate all your feed back.. I really do.

Truth be told, when I was purchasing my first man cannon, I went back and forth between my PX4 and G17 until I was at the register, went back and forth. So indecisive however I think I made the right purchase.

I just don't understand why all the police swear by the g19/g17. I know they get a good deal, but some are so religious about the glocks and think its the end all. And I know they're great man cannons, I just wanna know more.

Thanks again!


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## momtotwo (Jan 22, 2013)

Considering the fact that of my three handguns, I think I have flipped 'on' the safety of all of them together 2 times in their lives other than just to flip it....NO

My husband has a 21 and it is an awesome gun. I shoots tighter than three nuns in a strip club and is smooth as glass. The sights are easy to see, the trigger is smooth and crisp. The recoil return is moderate at worst. It is DEADLY accurate at 25 yards, maybe more but I have not shot it further than 25 yards.

Please, don't let that stop you from buying a very fine gun. If you don't love the lack of safety, don't carry it hot until you are more comfortable with the function of it. 

----

Due to inflation, my $0.02 will now cost you an arm and a leg.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Yes, I too agree. Not trying to knock you or be a smart-azz, but from what you've implied on this forum, you need some experience under your belt. Nothing wrong with that either. We've all been there! :smt023


Yeah, I guess my 20 yrs shooting, a stint in the Marines and currently serving as a LEO in a high crime city since 2008, certified NRA instructor, NRA CPL/CCW instructor and Tactical handgun/carbine instructor and MCOLES certified sniper (LE) dosen't count for much here.

Not saying I know everything (cuz i don't), but I didn't just buy my first handgun either.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> Yeah, I guess my 20 yrs shooting, a stint in the Marines and currently serving as a LEO in a high crime city since 2008, certified NRA instructor, NRA CPL/CCW instructor and Tactical handgun/carbine instructor and MCOLES certified sniper (LE) dosen't count for much here.
> 
> Not saying I know everything (cuz i don't), but I didn't just buy my first handgun either.


Maybe I didn't make my self clear. I was agreeing with what you said to TheLAGuy. :watching:


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

My bad Paratrooper... must have read it wrong. My apologies for my brain fart.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> My bad Paratrooper... must have read it wrong. My apologies for my brain fart.


No problem......I still have brain farts every now and then. :smt107


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## Kansan007 (Mar 18, 2013)

TheLAGuy said:


> Would you say a G17 is superior to a PX4 Storm?


I have two PX4's, one full size in .40 and the other is a 9 mm compact. I prefer them to the Glock and believe them to be of slightly better quality but it is tough to compare the two as they are completely different types of guns. Both are top notch and both will get the job done.


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## Cavere (Jan 1, 2013)

I had the same thinking as the OP. it was due more to having kids and the extremely unlikely scenario they got their hands on one of my gun in the future. That one extra step could mean so much. 

But like others have said with experience things may change. I had bought an m&p with the thumb safety. Now I'm thinking about guns without external safeties.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Before joining the military in 1974, I had some experience with firearms. Not a bunch, but some. 

Did three years in the Infantry and got out. Went to college and then entered into LE. Spent 29 yrs. chasing bad guys and called it good. 

Between the military and LE, I got all the hands-on training and experience that I could ever imagine having. 

Felt very fortunate at times while in LE. Who would ever think that one could get paid overtime to go shoot guns? There were many days that we'd be in the field, training, for up to 10 hrs. at a time........all on O/T. :mrgreen:


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> Before joining the military in 1974, I had some experience with firearms. Not a bunch, but some.
> 
> Did three years in the Infantry and got out. Went to college and then entered into LE. Spent 29 yrs. chasing bad guys and called it good.
> 
> ...


That's just fair. And you didn't even have to supply your own ammo.

(not fair at all)


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> That's just fair. And you didn't even have to supply your own ammo.
> 
> (not fair at all)


Those days made up for the days that I worked my azz off. And yes, I had plenty of them.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Cavere said:


> I had the same thinking as the OP. *it was due more to having kids* and the extremely unlikely scenario they got their hands on one of my gun in the future. That one extra step could mean so much.
> 
> But like others have said with experience things may change. I had bought an m&p with the thumb safety. Now I'm thinking about guns without external safeties.


When my children were little, I also agonized over this... how I could prevent any problems and still be protected. I had daughters so that helped since they are not naturally inclined to be attracted to firearms. But I still worried about this. However, I did find a way and it worked fine.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Never had any kids of my own, but I did have a step-son. I met his mother when he was about 8 or so. 

After a couple of years, we got married and I did find ways to keep a firearm handy in the house, w/o compromising his safety / well-being. 

I had friends that had several young kids in the house, and I helped them figure out ways to have a gun handy, but still not accessible to their children.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Shipwreck said:


> I've owned a lot of guns over the years - with all the various trigger styles.
> 
> Currently - I personally prefer DA/SA. I have a factory "D" spring in all of my 92's - so the first DA pull is brought down from 11.5lbs to just over 8 lbs. I shoot very well with it. Its not hard to shoot on the first shot, and I practice all the time.
> 
> ...


I agree, very good points made.
Keeping or training to keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire has it's flaws.
In the time or moment of an extreme situation ,,my finger is within the trigger guard.
I can have my finger on the trigger of my 1911 and snap off the external safety before a Glocker decides to look for that safe action trigger.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm old-school and was trained that way. That's long before the PC style of keeping your trigger finger out of the trigger guard, and alongside the frame / slide. 

Worked all my career (32 yrs.) that way and never an issue. That's not to say that there weren't times when my trigger finger was off the actual trigger, but still within the trigger guard and in a relaxed position.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> I'm old-school and was trained that way. That's long before the PC style of keeping your trigger finger out of the trigger guard, and alongside the frame / slide.
> 
> Worked all my career (32 yrs.) that way and never an issue. That's not to say that there weren't times when my trigger finger was off the actual trigger, but still within the trigger guard and in a relaxed position.


staying within the trigger guard,,,but off the trigger ,,exactly. At certain times,,,Good point


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## OHshooter (Mar 21, 2013)

Get a good holster and don't do anything stupid and you will be fine. Neither of my carry guns have thumb safeties and I consider myself safety paranoid.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

OHshooter said:


> Get a good holster and don't do anything stupid and you will be fine. Neither of my carry guns have thumb safeties and I consider myself safety paranoid.


What gun do you carry?


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