# Considerations for first handgun. HELLO!



## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Hey All, I'm new to the forum and somewhat new to hand guns. I've shot several of them but have never owned one for myself.

I know that this question may have been asked several times before but I'm not sure how exactly to search for my specific question/subject.

My question is this: What brands/models should I consider when deciding on my first pistol? I'm Looking in the price point of the stock M&P which around here is currently about $500 give or take. I think I've pretty much decided on 9mm for my first one and I do seem to like the polymer frames but other than that I'm pretty open.

I am familiar with glocks and the S&W M&P and I know some of the other big names like sig, H&K, ruger, beretta, walther but not real familiar with a lot of models or some of the other big/small brand names. I'm sure that there are some other ones that are worth looking at but I know nothing about them.

any help would be appreciated! I'm not a brand snob so if its a good reliable gun, it doesn't have to say glock on it. Oh, and before I get a bunch of replies saying that "its all about what feels good to you..." I understand that part and I plan to do just that. I just don't want to dismiss some other brand just because I've never hear of them.

Thanks!!
Ron


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello and welcome to the forum.

In regards to what brand you should try, I'll make it easy and tell you what brand to avoid. *TAURUS*.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum.
> 
> In regards to what brand you should try, I'll make it easy and tell you what brand to avoid. *TAURUS*.


That's what I've heard...shame...I liked the 809 that I held at a shop near by.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

All the brands you've mentioned are reliable, quality brands... i'll mention one for consideration that you and many others may overlook... CZ.

Relatively new in the US (compared to those listed), the CZ brand is known worldwide. If your leaning toward polymer handguns, I suggest the CZ 75 P-09 (full size) or P-07 (compact). Becoming very popular and maintains CZ quality. Also, it's in your price range.







Check em' out and welcome to the forum!


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

smakmauz said:


> That's what I've heard...shame...I liked the 809 that I held at a shop near by.


I should say that not all Taurus's malfunction.

Just ask the "Blade Runner" (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/oscar...estigates-south-africas-trial-of-the-century/). He got off four rounds w/o a malfunction.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

TAPnRACK said:


> All the brands you've mentioned are reliable, quality brands... i'll mention one you and many others overlook... CZ. Relatively new in the US (compared to those listed), the CZ brand is known worldwide. If your leaning toward polymer handguns, I suggest the CZ 75 P-09 (full size) or P-07 (compact). Becoming very popular and maintains CZ quality. Also, it's in your price range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool! Thanks....that's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for!


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

I would also recommend the Ruger SR9C they usually come with a 10+1 and a 17+1

I have the SR40C


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## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

My favorite handgun for that price is the Glock 19 but I do plan on getting a CZ soon.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Excellent! Thanks guys/gals....keep 'em coming!!


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Before you decide find a range that rents pistols and spend the money to try out several different brands and styles, ask what it takes to maintain the ones you are interested in. next you want to find out about holsters spare mags. and available ammo.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Listen to Tony. He knows what he's writing about.
Try before you buy.

Also, read through the topics in the "sticky threads" of this very area.
There are five different threads, all of which contain very useful information.
These threads are permanently at the head of the _New to Handguns Area_ because other people have already asked the same questions that you are asking.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks, this is only phase two of my buying experience after I get more familiar with brands and models I will start going back to the range to test out more models and then start narrowing the field. I do things a bit backwards from some people but it works for me. I'll look through the stickys again but I just haven't had time yet. I just found this forum today.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

If you're familiar with the Glock and M&P then you've dealt with two of the best platforms made. You also mentioned other fine weapons, and others have been mentioned. Personally, I would keep it as simple as possible until you're more familiar with shooting and all that goes with it. In that case, Glock or the M&P is your safest bet. The Glock is a simpler, more user friendly weapon, which may have something to do with the fact that Glock has about 70% of the law enforcement market. I have the Glocks 17, 19 and 42. I like the Gen4 version the best b/c the grip is slightly smaller, and the trigger is great. I really like the M&P and Sig, but I carry Glock b/c I shoot best with that pistol. Definitely take the time to compare at the range. Shoot them side by side so you can determine what you like best, then buy. As you go, you can always buy more!


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

tony pasley said:


> Before you decide find a range that rents pistols and spend the money to try out several different brands and styles, ask what it takes to maintain the ones you are interested in. next you want to find out about holsters spare mags. and available ammo.


Indeed! thank you...I thought about the ammo availability and accessories but I didn't think about the long term maintenance aspect. Cheers!



GCBHM said:


> If you're familiar with the Glock and M&P then you've dealt with two of the best platforms made. You also mentioned other fine weapons, and others have been mentioned. Personally, I would keep it as simple as possible until you're more familiar with shooting and all that goes with it. In that case, Glock or the M&P is your safest bet. The Glock is a simpler, more user friendly weapon, which may have something to do with the fact that Glock has about 70% of the law enforcement market. I have the Glocks 17, 19 and 42. I like the Gen4 version the best b/c the grip is slightly smaller, and the trigger is great. I really like the M&P and Sig, but I carry Glock b/c I shoot best with that pistol. Definitely take the time to compare at the range. Shoot them side by side so you can determine what you like best, then buy. As you go, you can always buy more!


I am definitely going to check out the glock gen 4 a lot more... I like the idea of the interchangeable grips and the selection of accessories. glocks have always felt good to me. I have only actually shot the G21 (probably gen 3) but it was pretty amazing.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The one thing about Glocks (actually several) is that they are very easy to maintain. They have fewer working parts than any other pistol on the market, which means they are less likely to break, they can take a severe beating and keep on going, and you can get accessories anywhere. A lot of people hate on Glocks calling them "plastic guns", but I think they're really missing out on a real, quality weapon. They are safe, reliable, accurate and just work. Just last weekend I shot the HK P30v2 (DAO) next to my Glock 19, and it was amazing to me how long the trigger pull was on the HK. HK makes fine weapons, don't get me wrong. They just aren't for me wrt pistols. Now I would like to get my hands on the HK 416, but that's a different story. I have become so accustomed to the trigger of the Glock that I prefer it to any other pistol. I'm a big fan of Sigs, but for EDC, I choose Glock. I am accurate, fast and reliable with it. It's just comfortable for me. I really like the M&Ps too, but I shoot better with Glocks. They just work for me. Good luck!

BTW, if you're really serious about handguns, I would stay in the top tier arena which includes HK, Sig, Glock, S&W, Colt, Beretta, FN, Springfield, Walther, etc. Not that the 2nd tier guns like Ruger, Taurus, Keltec, etc., don't offer quality. They just don't hold up to the top tier. I would look to law enforcement and military to see what they use, and then find the one that works best for you. There are enough out there to suit anyone. I will say this, however. Every major gun manufacturer out there now makes a polymer frame gun for one reason. GLOCK.


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

Since you are *really* new to the shooting sports your tastes are going to change a lot at first as they develop. Thus, I think ownership of your first gun is going to be short lived and trading guns is _expensive._

I would say to buy a reasonable .22, like a Ruger MkIII and get some range time. This will allow you to *see* other people's guns and talk to them in person about them. You might even get a chance to shoot them. Thus your opinions and experience will come into focus and your first gun will be less of a shot in the dark, if you'll excuse the pun.


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## Tip (Aug 22, 2012)

Rule #1: ignore anybody that says "buy this gun" -- that is akin to someone saying "buy these 32x34 pants" they fit me good.
Rule #2: if at all possible try on everything you can - try and shoot as many as you can BUT only a couple at a time - come back later to shoot others. Take notes!
Rule #3: when you have narrowed it down to a couple then try them again.
Rule #4: enjoy the search -- its part of the fun. Don't get in a hurry -- a couple extra rental sessions are usually a damn sight cheaper than making a wrong choice and having to sell/trade for the right one


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Tip said:


> Rule #1: ignore anybody that says "buy this gun" -- that is akin to someone saying "buy these 32x34 pants" they fit me good.
> Rule #2: if at all possible try on everything you can - try and shoot as many as you can BUT only a couple at a time - come back later to shoot others. Take notes!
> Rule #3: when you have narrowed it down to a couple then try them again.
> Rule #4: enjoy the search -- its part of the fun. Don't get in a hurry -- a couple extra rental sessions are usually a damn sight cheaper than making a wrong choice and having to sell/trade for the right one


Definitely agree with this! Try as many guns and calibers you can before you buy something. There are few things worse than buying a gun only to realize later there was a better one out there you like more! Talk to those who have experience with weapons, finding out why they like what they like, but nothing will take the place of your own experience with the weapon. I used to carry Sigs, and still love them! But Glock came out with the Gen4 and it totally changed the Glock experience for me. I choose quality which will cost you a little more, but you may find that a Ruger, which is less expensive, fits exactly what you want/need. There is NOTHING wrong with that! Ruger makes a reliable and safe product. I too shy away from anyone who says "buy this gun" or "buy this caliber" b/c people are different. Some people will shoot nothing but a .45 while others simply don't care at all. I've gone through all of them and ultimately landed on 9mm b/c I can shoot better with that caliber, and shot placement is THE most important thing next to your mind as your defensive weapon. I also carry a .380, but you have to practice with it, and practice and practice and practice. The bad news is that is sometimes costly. The good news is that means you get to shoot a lot!!!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

So far, I gotta say: Listen to Tony and Tip.


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## BingoFuel (Jun 20, 2014)

This is my first post here so bear with me...
It would be helpful if the OP could provide more detail about why he/she wants to purchase a handgun or rather, what does he/she plan to do with it? If it's range shooting then there's a huge range of options. Speed of fire and absolute durability are a bit less important. So is round capacity. If on the other hand the OP want to use the gun wholly or in part for HD/SD then it really narrows things down a bit as some have described.
I went through this process some twenty plus years ago and because I am left handed and a real safety nerd I purchased an H&K P7M13. At the time they were pricey but now they are just out of sight. But they are perfectly ambidextrous, incredibly reliable, very accurate and have the best safety system (and obscure enough that if I BG got their hands on it they might not figure it out) of any gun I know of. The P7M8's are a bit more reasonable but still very expensive.
However barring that and presuming that there is a bit of HD/SD in the equation, I would focus on high quality brands of striker fired handguns. Specifically Glocks and the S&W M&P series (or even the SD/VE series). I would avoid hammer fired handguns such as H&K (I'm an H&K lover but not a good first gun), Sig and CZ due to the double-action/single-action manual of arms. 
I would head to the range and rent a bunch, but particularly these two striker fired brands in 9mm and decide which works better for you.
Best of luck and welcome a great sport/hobby/safety activity,
B


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## welshdude (Mar 16, 2014)

Almost 2 years ago my wife and I decided to get our HGCPs in TN. Went to a gun show and I was fortunate to have purchased a Kel-Tec P11 9mm because I remembered a friend of mine saying he'd had a KT P32 and loved it. And it was within my budget. I was a total neophyte having never fired a hg before in my life. Well, the good Lord looks out for fools and drunks because I've fired over 400 hitch free rounds since buying it. 2 standard field strip cleanings and one fluff and buff. My wife carries it now as the pistol she picked out turned out to be a POS and we spent a year swapping the P11 when going into town. We live rural. I've since purchased a small, but high quality 'get off me' pistol in .25 acp.

The thing I've learned in the last 2 years is that on forums like this there are more than a few members who've been shooting vitually all of their lives and have differing, but solid perspectives. The best information one can get is contained in any one of a half-dozen hg forums. _Anything _one would want to know from ammo to Zip-guns is available in the respective site searches. Youtube has countless videos reviewing 9mms of all brands and vintages. Depending on your purpose you may want something small and concealable like the P11, but can afford higher quality like a Kahr, Glock, etc. 1911s are _huge _compared to a P11, but the 'felt re-coil' is way lower as well. Like others w/alot more experience than me have advised try everything, narrow it down to 3-4 and refine your choice from there. I got lucky. Stumbled into a really reliable, inexpensive CCW from the jump. You're doing it right. Had I known then what I've since learned I'd have gotten the P11 for about 75% of what I paid. Enjoy your search. You'll find the one that suits you best.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

thanks for all the replies everyone! I have narrowed my field down to a few that I will be testing out more thoroughly. So far I REALLY like the walther PPQ 9mm and the Springfield XDm 9mm but I still need to get my hands on the G17 and the M&P 9mm as well. I shot the PPQ 9mm and an M&P .40SW at the range last weekend but I want to try all of these in 9mm. I can say that I don't really like the feel of the polymer that Glock is using these days....I'm sure its fine but it seems like they've made it quite a bit thinner over the years and it just doesn't feel right to me. I frickin' love the trigger on that XDm it is soooo much smoother out of the box than any of the ones that I've tried so far... it also has a pretty short pull too...feels almost like a DA/SA with the hammer cocked but its a DA only.

I like shooting quite a bit and I am 99% sure that I will end up with a few more. I know that I'm going to buy a .22 or .380 for a small caliber fun range gun for cheaper shooting. I'll probably start another thread about that.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Shooting a .380 costs about as much as shooting 9mm or a .45 ACP.
"Cheap" practice is the realm of the .22LR. And that ain't so cheap any more, either.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Shooting a .380 costs about as much as shooting 9mm or a .45 ACP.
> "Cheap" practice is the realm of the .22LR. And that ain't so cheap any more, either.


Yeah, I've never purchased or shot a .380 so that's good info. I guess it'll be a .22 for my small caliber


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The XD does have a nice trigger action! So does the Styer series, if you can get your hands on one. Also great pistols for around $550.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Shooting a .380 costs about as much as shooting 9mm or a .45 ACP.
> "Cheap" practice is the realm of the .22LR. And that ain't so cheap any more, either.


This is true! I tend to shoot 9mm more than anything bc it is what I carry. It's also a really manageable round for me and a lot of fun to shoot. I also love the .380 round, and in the right pistol, it is fun to shoot. Of course this can be said for most guns, but you get the point. I don't fool with .22 much just bc I don't have one. I do think they are loads of fun, but Steve hit it. Nothing is cheap anymore!


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Picked up my first one today! got me one of those little ruger sr22's for a little fun gun. put a few rounds through it and its a fun little guy. Shot a few more 9mm's at the range too for comparison for my main weapon. shot the G17 gen3, the fnx9, the ruger sr9 and the springfield XDm. All seemed to be pretty good but I actually shot the best with the g17....much tighter grouping. I didn't think that was going to be the case. The only bummer was that they didn't have a PPQ for me to compare with all of those. I saved my targets though and labeled all of them so I can use the same target at the same distance to at least compare my grouping when I go back to the other range that has the PPQ to rent. I may very well end up with the glock. I think I may go gen3 though if I do cause I just don't like that handle texture on the gen4.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

A lot of folks love the Gen3s, and they are great guns. Like I said, I ended up shooting best with the Glock also, much to my shagrin, but now I prefer a Glock. Funny how that goes. Those little .22s are really cool! I have not found a PPQ to shoot either, but when I do...


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> A lot of folks love the Gen3s, and they are great guns. Like I said, I ended up shooting best with the Glock also, much to my shagrin, but now I prefer a Glock. Funny how that goes. Those little .22s are really cool! I have not found a PPQ to shoot either, but when I do...


the PPQ was a great shooter! the only thing I don't quite like about it is the shape of the slide... its got that classic walther sort of pyramid shape to it where it tapers thinner up to the top and it makes it a bit difficult to rack the slide when pulling from the back with your thumb and forefinger but I suppose it would just take me a little getting used to.

What gen glock do you have?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

smakmauz said:


> the PPQ was a great shooter! the only thing I don't quite like about it is the shape of the slide... its got that classic walther sort of pyramid shape to it where it tapers thinner up to the top and it makes it a bit difficult to rack the slide when pulling from the back with your thumb and forefinger but I suppose it would just take me a little getting used to.
> 
> What gen glock do you have?


I was holding the PPQ today and know exactly what you're talking about the shape of the slide. I found that odd. I have the 17 & 19 Gen4, and love the texture and grip size. Its 1/32" more narrow (front to back) to accommodate the MBS, and the smallest size (without any backstraps) fits my small/medium size hands perfectly. I love the trigger of the Glock, but it did take some getting used to. Prior to that I carried either the Sig P226 or P229, and I still love them. I just got so tuned to the Glock that nothing else seems to fit me as well. I also have the Glock 42, and let me tell you, that is one smooth little pistol! I love it! I have two mags with the pinky extensions, and it really enhances the feel. Give one a shot if you get the chance. You won't be disappointed.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> I was holding the PPQ today and know exactly what you're talking about the shape of the slide. I found that odd. I have the 17 & 19 Gen4, and love the texture and grip size. Its 1/32" more narrow (front to back) to accommodate the MBS, and the smallest size (without any backstraps) fits my small/medium size hands perfectly. I love the trigger of the Glock, but it did take some getting used to. Prior to that I carried either the Sig P226 or P229, and I still love them. I just got so tuned to the Glock that nothing else seems to fit me as well. I also have the Glock 42, and let me tell you, that is one smooth little pistol! I love it! I have two mags with the pinky extensions, and it really enhances the feel. Give one a shot if you get the chance. You won't be disappointed.


Do you have trouble shooting the gen4's for longer periods because of theat texture? it seems like it might start to get un comfortable after a while....I know the fnx9 did after only one mag... that thing has got crazy sharp heavy texture


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

smakmauz said:


> Do you have trouble shooting the gen4's for longer periods because of theat texture? it seems like it might start to get un comfortable after a while....I know the fnx9 did after only one mag... that thing has got crazy sharp heavy texture


No, actually I've never even noticed any wear or chaffing. The most I've shot with either is around 400 at one range shooting, but on avg, 100 per visit.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> No, actually I've never even noticed any wear or chaffing. The most I've shot with either is around 400 at one range shooting, but on avg, 100 per visit.


good to know. I do like the size of the gen4 grip better. I guess I'll just have to shoot one!!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I would definitely recommend that! I carry my 19 EDC and keep the 17 as my home defense pistol.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

paratrooper said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum.
> 
> In regards to what brand you should try, I'll make it easy and tell you what brand to avoid. *TAURUS*.


Poor Taurus. Just can't get a break. :watching:


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

berettatoter said:


> Poor Taurus. Just can't get a break. :watching:


I know......it's really too bad cause I like the way a lot of their guns feel in my hand and they look really cool too but that's not enough to make me want to trust buying one. Maybe if I see one used or something for a smokin good deal, I might take a chance...but that won't likely happen


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## crosshairs (Jul 1, 2014)

Glock makes fine sidearms, but personally I love the feel of a Beretta.
I love my B 92, feels good in my hand and is precise/reliable.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

crosshairs said:


> Glock makes fine sidearms, but personally I love the feel of a Beretta.
> I love my B 92, feels good in my hand and is precise/reliable.


What do you think of the PX4 storms? haven't held or shot one yet but the look pretty cool. Are they comparable to the other major brands polymer frame offerings?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The storms are fine weapons. I don't like them, but they are quality pistols. You should give one a shot if you like the way they look.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

I had the Storm compact and found it to be very accurate for it's size. I ended up selling it to put $$$ towards a CZ 75BD Police. I didn't care for it's (PX4) bulk or the smooth grip. The grip wasn't aggressive enough for a carry or HD gun imo. Other than that... fantastic gun that felt good in the hand (contour/ergos) and put rounds right where they were intended to go. No failures or feeding issues in the several hundred rounds I put through it. Mild recoil for a compact due to the heavy (bulky) slide. Will never part with my Beretta 92G though.


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## northstar19 (Aug 11, 2013)

BingoFuel: Excellent advice. But one reminder. The CZ 75 B can be had in single action only, and still around $500. OP: be sure to check out the CZ 75, especially in single action only. It's said to be one of the great handguns. And certainly one of the great handgun values. (If it's the right one for you.)


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

tony pasley said:


> Before you decide find a range that rents pistols and spend the money to try out several different brands and styles, ask what it takes to maintain the ones you are interested in. next you want to find out about holsters spare mags. and available ammo.


Best advise ^^

But you need to decide what you want the gun for.

Concealed carry / range / plinking /

Because it's rather difficult to find one that you can do all with -

And welcome from Texas

JMHO

:smt1099


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

The M&Ps come with back straps 
The Ruger SR series you can flip the back strap around giving you flat or arched. Also the Ruger has a lot of safety to it so knowing that may affect your decision either way. ( mag safety & thumb safety)

If you can't shoot them then spend time at the store holding them and find something safe to point the firearm at and practice presenting it and go with the one that feels better to you.

you can try this site to for comparing handguns Handgun Database - Compare Handguns


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

crosshairs said:


> Glock makes fine sidearms, but personally I love the feel of a Beretta.
> I love my B 92, feels good in my hand and is precise/reliable.


Yeah, I kinda feel the same way!


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all the great advice! It's been a while since last posting on this thread and I've been a busy bee...shooting and buying. I pulled the trigger, So to speak, on a full sized M&p 9mm for my larger frame and then just picked up a kahr Cw9 for my ccw. I've been to the range several times now and am playing around with different ammo and trying to get a feel for everything. Got my new IWB holster on order from alien gear and a couple hogue grips to try out. Got a bunch of ammo and a great little range bag and extra mags....I'm set up for a while! Ahh...who am I kidding...I'm already saving up money for the next one....maybe a ppq or maybe that new ccp when it finally hits the gun cases. I'm starting to really dig the shield too.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Congrats on 2 fine weapons, let me know how that Alien Gear rig works out... I have a CM9 that i'd like to start carrying IWB.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

smakmauz said:


> Thanks everyone for all the great advice! It's been a while since last posting on this thread and I've been a busy bee...shooting and buying. I pulled the trigger, So to speak, on a full sized M&p 9mm for my larger frame and then just picked up a kahr Cw9 for my ccw. I've been to the range several times now and am playing around with different ammo and trying to get a feel for everything. Got my new IWB holster on order from alien gear and a couple hogue grips to try out. Got a bunch of ammo and a great little range bag and extra mags....I'm set up for a while! Ahh...who am I kidding...I'm already saving up money for the next one....maybe a ppq or maybe that new ccp when it finally hits the gun cases. I'm starting to really dig the shield too.


Looks like you've jumped into to the handgun world with both feet. I own five M&P's; four centerfiles and one rimfire - their great M&P 22. You should know that the M&P trigger can be vastly improved by after market parts from Apex Tactical should it need some help. I would strongly advise this if needed.

The same for Glocks. The Glock makes use of a two-stage trigger and I have yet to see the same weight out of the box from two Glocks. But there is much that can be done to their triggers and every one I buy, I have a standard process I go through to get the trigger I want. Glocks are incredibly simple to detail strip and work on for mods, detailed cleaning, or repair which is one of their strong points.

You mentioned that you got Kahr CW9 for your carry gun. Have to ask why you didn't opt for the Glock 19, as it appeared that was the direction you were headed. Mind you, I own five Kahrs so I am not picking on that choice... just curious, that's all.

Another word on the M&P. First, what barrel length did you get in your full size? I have an M&P 9 Pro Series with the 4.25" barrel and have shot it a lot (well over 4000 rounds through it). It is very accurate. What I should tell you about the M&P is that they tend to be sensitive to dirt and debris (think burnt powder residue). After about 5-600 rounds between cleaning, you will probably start to get failures to completely feed. Their magazines are also prone to get dirty quickly so you should disassemble your mag(s) and clean them when you clean the gun. Otherwise, it is a great platform.

You had some reservations about the rough texture on the gen4 Glocks. Not to worry. You'll find that this new textures really improves your purchase on the gun's grip frame. In an extreme encounter, this could be invaluable.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Congrats on your selections. I can't argue against the M&P. Great choice! I don't really know anything about the Kahr, except to say they have a pretty good reputation. Good luck!


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

SouthernBoy said:


> Looks like you've jumped into to the handgun world with both feet. I own five M&P's; four centerfiles and one rimfire - their great M&P 22. You should know that the M&P trigger can be vastly improved by after market parts from Apex Tactical should it need some help. I would strongly advise this if needed.
> 
> The same for Glocks. The Glock makes use of a two-stage trigger and I have yet to see the same weight out of the box from two Glocks. But there is much that can be done to their triggers and every one I buy, I have a standard process I go through to get the trigger I want. Glocks are incredibly simple to detail strip and work on for mods, detailed cleaning, or repair which is one of their strong points.
> 
> ...


I'm just not a fan of the glock 19...I'm sure it's a great weapon but I wanted something thinner so it would sit closer to my body since I mostly just wear t-shirts and not too baggy. I also just don't like the way the g19 feels In my hand. I also wanted something with either an easy to release external safety or a heavier trigger pull for my first ccw, at least until I get used to carrying. It was a toss up between the shield and the Cw9 but in the end I opted for the Cw9 mainly based on the $329 price tag since I shot about same with both and the fact that kahr is offering a free magazine promo until October so I didn't have to buy another mag...otherwise I may very well have ended up with the shield first. I still will probably end up with a shield as well but for a while, this little kahr is great. ..very small and my pinky doesn't dangle and it's recoil is very manageable for a gun this small. I've got a hogue grip sleeve coming for both the M&P and the kahr to try out as well but I can effectively run both guns with the stock grips.

To answer your second question, I got just the standard 4.25 inch barrel version of the M&P. I shoot very well with It and I enjoy the sort of soft recoil that it has. So far I've only run a couple hundred rounds through it but I've had no issues and am very pleased. Picked up one extra mag for it , and a paddle holster and double mag pouch for fun.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

TAPnRACK said:


> Congrats on 2 fine weapons, let me know how that Alien Gear rig works out... I have a CM9 that i'd like to start carrying IWB.


I will! I should be getting it today or tomorrow and I can give my first impression. I definitely liked the price and options that you have with the alien gear stuff. You can buy extra shells for different guns that all can mount on the same base! Got one full holster set for my m&p with an extra shell for my kahr and an extra set of clips all shipped for around $70. You can adjust the clips so the holster rides higher or lower or you can use them to adjust the cant to a a different position.


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

TAPnRACK said:


> Congrats on 2 fine weapons, let me know how that Alien Gear rig works out... I have a CM9 that i'd like to start carrying IWB.


Got my new alien gear IWB rig and it's pretty sweet! Only been wearing it a couple days now but it's really comfortable and I like the adjustability of it as well as the options you have. They've got 4 or 5 different belt attachments for different preferences and they're base plates use a standard hole mounting so you can get extra shells for different guns if you don't want to have more than one holster. I got the 'cloak tuck 2.0 which is a composite type base plate rather than leather like most of the hybrids. Multiple layers of very thin flexible ABS, neoprene and fabric lined on the back for comfort.

They've got a few videos on their website that are pretty good... I recommend checking them out.

Only thing I should say is that this is my first IWB rig so I can't really compare it to anything but I do like it!


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback... I may try a quick clip first on my CM9. I got a lot of buddies that swear by em' for IWB carry.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Unasked-For Advice:*
Don't fiddle too much, with your new hyper-adjustable holster. Take the time to experiment and find a really comfortable setting, and stick with it from then on.
The best presentation technique comes to those whose holster is always in the exact same place, at exactly the same angle.
Find that one place on your body, and practice with your gun and holster exactly there until your presentation becomes completely automatic, sure, and quick.
If you get another pistol, buy another, separate holster.
Do not exchange parts on the one holster foundation with which you've practiced, to make it fit the other gun.
(Actually, the best technique demands that you use the same pistol and the same rig, in the same position, each and every time. Your "second gun" would probably best be a duplicate of the first one.)


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Unasked-For Advice:*
> Don't fiddle too much, with your new hyper-adjustable holster. Take the time to experiment and find a really comfortable setting, and stick with it from then on.
> The best presentation technique comes to those whose holster is always in the exact same place, at exactly the same angle.
> Find that one place on your body, and practice with your gun and holster exactly there until your presentation becomes completely automatic, sure, and quick.
> ...


Two things in reply to your comments:

1. The alien gear holster is consistent across the board as far as hole spacing and factory set cant so buying a whole other holster is all but the same as just buying another shell and mounting it on the existing base plate so your logic, while normally sound, doesn't really apply in this instance. They do have 3 or 4 different base plates but the only difference in them is the length of the part that sits below the kydex so the muzzle of the gun rubs on that rather than your butt...functionally though, they're the same. It wouldn't be like buying two different brands or something like that.

2. I know I'm fairly new at this but it would seem to me that you would want to practice with any and all the gun's you own that you might think about carrying. Say you only practice all the time with one of your guns and you carry only that one exclusively. Then one day that gun you've carried for years suddenly has a problem and you have to send it in for warranty or take it to a smith for repair and you all of the sudden have to carry a gun you haven't practiced with a lot and that happens to be the day that you end up needing to draw your weapon. ... you're gonna wish you'd practiced a lot more that other one. I guess , like you mentioned, your spare could be a duplicate of your main...but that's just boring.

I know it's a little far fetched but, no more than the ordinary citizens that carry a main firearm AND a back up (or 2) in an ankle holster or something for the 1,000,000:1 chance that they may need it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the people who do that but it's a good analogy for the above-mentioned situation.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Think about this aphorism (which, I believe, was said by Jeff Cooper): "Beware of the man with but one gun. He may know how to use it."

The meaning of this statement is: It would probably be best to get to know one single pistol (or rifle) extremely well, than to be pretty well acquainted with several of them.
The thought transfers to holsters, too, and even to the place on your body where your rig hangs. If you do things the same way, every time, your body develops an almost instinctive set of skills that we call (for lack of a better, more succinct term) "muscle memory."

BTW: You don't need to carry two pistols, both alike. But many experienced self-defense shooters strongly believe that you should _own_ two guns, completely alike. Thus, when the one breaks, you can seamlessly transition to the other. The same goes for holsters; and to belts and magazine pouches, for that matter.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

New verses experienced. Go with the experience. Food for thought!


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Think about this aphorism (which, I believe, was said by Jeff Cooper): "Beware of the man with but one gun. He may know how to use it."
> 
> The meaning of this statement is: It would probably be best to get to know one single pistol (or rifle) extremely well, than to be pretty well acquainted with several of them.
> The thought transfers to holsters, too, and even to the place on your body where your rig hangs. If you do things the same way, every time, your body develops an almost instinctive set of skills that we call (for lack of a better, more succinct term) "muscle memory."
> ...


you may be right! and I'm a drummer so I know all about muscle memory. i rely on it all the time. Maybe its because of my drumming and the added coordination from that, but I always try to change up my practicing style because all defensive situations are not gonna be the same with just some guy in front of you in a brightly lit environment with a target painted on his chest.

I really do understand your point of view and there is merit in it. I meant no disrespect in anything I said...sometimes its hard to convey inflection and emotion in a forum post. I just prefer one of the other arguments for varying your routine. Theory and technique are always evolving and I personally like to think to the future rather than the past. Neither way of thinking is wrong...just different:smt023


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> New verses experienced. Go with the experience. Food for thought!


Here's some desert for your meal: we won't ever grow as a society if no one ever tries new things. The human race has developed into what it is today by innovation and new ideas. :smt002


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

smakmauz said:


> Here's some desert for your meal: we won't ever grow as a society if no one ever tries new things. The human race has developed into what it is today by innovation and new ideas. :smt002


Smart ppl typically build on a sure foundation. Your theory works for most things, but playing with guns will get you killed. Good luck!


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> Smart ppl typically build on a sure foundation. Your theory works for most things, but playing with guns will get you killed. Good luck!


yes, but that "sure foundation" was once a new fangled idea that some closed minded people didn't want to mess with.

I hope you understand that I'm not talking about re-writing the foundations of safe handling and common sense. I'm not going to be "playing" with guns but there is more than one way to do things and that doesn't make the other way wrong.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

_Chacun à son gôut._


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## smakmauz (Jun 18, 2014)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> _Chacun à son gôut._


Nice! I had to google that... hadn't heard that one but I agree!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Me too!


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