# Looking at the Kahr PM9 and the Ruger LC9. Need some feedback.



## S.Fitz (Mar 28, 2011)

Considering purchasing one of these firearms for everyday carry and I would like some feedback from experienced users.

Looking for:

Easy to conceal.

Comfortable to wear all day, every day. IWB? Pocket?

Durability and reliability. I don't buy a lot of guns so I want something that's gong to last.

I know there is good bit of difference in price but I'm saving some money up so i'll save towards the better of the two. So for now, price doesn't matter.

Thank you.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Kahr just released this week a CM9 which is a PM9 with a few less bells and whistles. It is the CW9 in a PM9 oackage. It is a new release like the LC9 is and neither have a long track record. The PM is a rock solid weapon and a great gun, I also own the CW9 Kahr so even though I don't have a CM9 I have its 2 closest relatives and would not hesitate for a second to recomend anything 9mm made by kahr.

The LC9 seems like a real winner too, I have held one and like it, in this case however I would go with the Kahr. Now this only my opinion and is not meant to be taken in any other ofrm then my opinion. 

The Kahr CM or PM9 are both pocketable light weight thn and can be carried easily hidden all day long. There are plenty of very good holsters available for the Kahr and it has a very reliable customer service department.

Ruger has also got very syellar customer service department and I am sure there is holstere=s and gear on its way to market for the LC9. It too will hide and carry easily.

TRCG


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## S.Fitz (Mar 28, 2011)

So as far as hiding in the pocket or a well hidden holster, there's no big difference between the two, I gotcha.

I went to my more favorable lgs today but they had neither model in so I couldn't get a good feel or size comparison between the two.

I've probably watched 30-40 video reviews between these two guns in the past few days and have not really heard any negatives except for the video makers self preferences (safeties for example). 

Makes this decision difficult. I'm pretty patient about saving money for something I really want but I'm afraid once I save up to the price of the Ruger I may break! Hahaha. 

Let's seeeee, get the Ruger NOW, be happy. Orrrrr save another couple hundred bucks or so and be completely satisfied with the Kahr.

Decisions decisions.

Thanks for the reply.


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## wdg710 (Feb 5, 2011)

*Cm 9*

I'm waiting on the CM 9 ...... finally decided on CM 9 over Ruger LCP 9 after much research.... CM 9 is just a PM 9 with standard rifiling and some manufacturing tweaks to bring down the cost ...


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## Lateck (Jul 23, 2010)

I have a LC9 and I did look at Kahr's but, I like the finish on the Ruger.
I also believe that Ruger has their act together now. 

Lateck,


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Ruger does have their act together. They are a good company. Guns are personal the finish on teh LC9 is not the finish you will get on a Kahr. If you like it better then you surely picked the right gun.

RCG


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## RUT (Aug 28, 2008)

If money is no object you could go either way. In my case I chose the PM9. Got a new one two weeks ago and liked it so much I picked up a new T9 yesterday. :mrgreen:


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## bmbroker (Mar 7, 2010)

I have an SRc9 and am very pleased. As far as holster goes, I got a Remora clipless holster for IWB or (big) pocket carry for around 30 bucks. The holster really does stay where you put it. Any of the handguns mentioned here would be fine. I really recommend you look at the Remora for whatever gun you choose. No, I have no connection to Remora other than being a satisfied customer.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I bought my Ruger LC9 the 1st week that they were being shipped.

I just happened to be in my LGS when UPS delivered 3 of them.

I looked at it, then bought it.

IMHO Ruger has hit another home run with the LC9.

It's about 25% larger than my LCP.

I can carry it in my front jeans pocket.

It fills the pocket, but is not uncomfortable.

I've put around 300 rounds through it w/o one problem.


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## PX (May 14, 2006)

JMOfartO:

I've had a Ruger firearm of one description or another for over 40 years, and so far (knock on wood), I've yet to have a bad one..

Some time back I bought my first LCP, and it is so good that I bought a 2nd, and then my bride wanted one, so she has one also.. 

All three, perfect right out of the cheap white cardboard box. Reliable, accurate....

I already have 7-8 9MM compact pistols so I wasn't even looking for another one when my buddy brought his LC9 over and let me shoot it.

Crap..

Surprisingly accurate from self defense distance and of course absolutely RELIABLE... Actually put 'em side by side and the LC9 is just an LCP on steroids.... 

So, I had to have one..

$365.00+tax later I brought my new LC9 home, cleaned it, took it out back and yep.... Accurate and reliable, just like all the others..

So..

I think if you are a Kahr "person", you'll love the new Kahr.. If you are a Ruger person, you'll love the Ruger..

There are no losers when both of your choices are very, very good..

So, you pick the one that calls your name the loudest, and betcha' you'll be happy with it.

Jesse


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## hk45ctp30 (Feb 22, 2011)

I bought a new Kahr PM9 before I retired to use as a BUG in my ballistic vest pocket while doing raids. It had a problem with not going back into battery after firing the weapon and I would have to thumb the slide forward every shot. It went to Kahr 3 times for the same problem before I decided to get rid of it. The last thing I wanted was to go to that pistol in order to save my life and find it wouldn't shoot reliably. I have known other agents to carry them, but once was enough for me. I paid close to $750.00 for that thing and expected it to work as advertised, but it didn't. I may have just got a bad one, which is certainly possible. Today, if I had to choose between the two choices, I would go with the Ruger every time. Good luck with what you get!


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

S.Fitz said:


> Considering purchasing one of these firearms for everyday carry and I would like some feedback from experienced users. . .


Can't help you with actual gun experience.

I went to buy a LC9 from Cabela's first shipment. Fondled the LC9, the Kahr PM9, and the new Sig P290 Special Edition pocket 9mm. 
Came home with the Sig. It is NOT a good price point weapon. I WANTED the P290 and I bought it as my "first Sig". 
I'd have no problem carrying either the LC9 or the "new" CM9. But the PM9 experience above is "unsettling", to say the least.

What I can recommend from experience is the DeSantis "Super Fly" pocket holster for any "pocket gun". 
It's like their Nemisis holster with an added "square" flap, velcro'd and ambidextrous.

It is a great gun protector, even if you don't use it in a pants or coat pocket. Especially for console or glovebox or nightstand storage. 
I have one for my J-frame, and I'm getting one for my Sig.
No, I have no connection with DeSantis. :mrgreen:

POCKET HOLSTERS - DeSantis Holster


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Both the Walther PPS and the Kel-tec PF9 fit neatly in that catagory. The Walther is a high end version and in 9mm is reported to be very reliable.

The Kel-tec is a budget version. Early examples had problems; current production is supposed to be very good.


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## buckler (May 24, 2011)

for the same price as the new kahr, i can get 2 used Keltecs. One to practice with, one to actually carry. shoot the "duty' gun very little, put the wear, tear and fouling on the practice gun, where parts breakage, etc, wont risk your life.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

buckler said:


> for the same price as the new kahr, i can get 2 used Keltecs. One to practice with, one to actually carry. shoot the "duty' gun very little, put the wear, tear and fouling on the practice gun, where parts breakage, etc, wont risk your life.


Probably two new ones; I've seen them going for $260.00 new on-line.

I don't know that you would shoot a Kel-tec so much that it would benefit you to have two. Initially I would want to shoot a couple of hundred rounds to break it in and make sure that my carry ammo cycles reliably. After that, I would imagine that shooting one magazine every couple of weeks would be enough to keep you sharp.

I have not shot this weapon, but at under 13 ounces and carrying 9mm rounds it does not sound like a pleasant range gun. I would not imagine that I would run a lot of ammo through a weapon like this.


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

Try to find a store with range and shoot them both or use a friends if you can then choose the one you prefer....


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I owned a Kel-tec P11 and I did not like it at all.

IMHO it was terrible to shoot and I even put the trigger shoe on it & still didn't like it.

It's a cheap price for a reason.

The Ruger LCP and LC9 were a dream to shoot in comparison. .

:smt1099


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## AZLCR (Apr 14, 2011)

+1 on the De Santis Superfly mentioned by DanP_from_AZ. I got one for my LCR and it really works well. Good adhesion in the pocket and no printing. I paid $15 at a show, not sure of regular retail price.


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

The Ruger has the kind of reliability I got from my Browning Hi Power in Viet Nam. It has that feel. The Hi Power is not as concealable and I use the Ruger with confidence. I am not familiar with the Kahr per se, but my experience with Kahr overall does not give me the comfort that Ruger does. Just an opinion.


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

There are some features that are different:
LC9 has a manual safety and a magazine safety, so when the mag is out you can't pull the trigger. I like the manual safety but despise the mag safety. I like to be able to dry fire the pistol to do trigger pull practice, especially on a long pull DAO and have to keep an empty mag around just for dry fire. (Someone will probably figure out how to disable the mag safety soon.) I have a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 380 DAO and every time I pull the trigger, the hammer cocks and falls. Great for dry fire exercise with SnapCaps. 

While there is a version of the PM9 you can buy with a manual safety, the vast majority are sold without the safety. There is also no magazine safety, so the trigger will pull and the striker will fall if the mag is out. However, because it is striker fired, you must use the action to cock the striker to dry fire practice. Also, if a round fails to fire, you can't just pull the trigger again...you have to rack the slide for a new round. I actually have a used PM9 on the way based on a personal recommendation, but I may get frustrated that I can't easily do dry fire exercises with it, but those who own the PM9's really love them. I did have two dealers tell me they didn't like the Kahr's, but that could be that they are promoting other brands, and there have been some magazine and barrel issues with certain series, which I heard Kahr has repaired at no charge. 

Right now I enjoy carrying and shooting the Bersa 380CC...DA/SA, safety, small and easy to conceal, accurate, good looking in nickel, and I was able to disable the mag safety. And, the trigger is smooth. They make a 9mm UltraCompact version I am ready to try.


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

Yesterday I would have said the Kahr PM9. I have had mine two days and it shoots great, accurate, nominal recoil, and small and easily concealable. It is a little bit hard to breakdown. However, I have discovered an issue with mine which seems to be a common problem with this and other similar Kahr models: Hollow points Failure to Feed when the mag is loaded with the slide closed. It then jams the first round into the ramp and won't load. After the first round, it seems to work fine. So far all the HP's I have tried have the same problem. 

The Ruger LC9 with the crimson trace is probably the same price as the Kahr without the laser. My advice is to check out the forums to find out how the LC9's are working out. I have heard many here love the Kahr PM9's and perhaps my gun will get repaired or I will find good HP ammo that will always load. 

I consider the LC9 in a different class due to the size. The PM9 is 5.4in long, and the LC9 is 6in long. It is just enough to make a difference for pocket carry. They are all under 5.7in and 20oz or under. Note the PF11 and SCCY both have a 10 round capacity...a 3-4 shot advantage over the others but makes them about an inch taller. If my Kahr doesn't work out, I am thinking about the Sig P290. 

Here is a list of pocket sized 9mm's to consider as well:
Kahr PM9 Striker-Half Cock
SigSauer P290	DAO Hammer
Kel-Tec PF-11	DOA Hammer
SCCY Gen-2 9mm	DAO Hammer
Kimber Solo	Striker Half-Cock

Good luck.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

cclaxton said:


> My advice is to check out the forums to find out how the LC9's are working out. I have heard many here love the Kahr PM9's and perhaps my gun will get repaired or I will find good HP ammo that will always load.


Reading what others think is fine but no way to pick a weapon. Your lists Are all very internet based. Go hold the guns...shot the guns when yo can. Forums give you a very small snapshot and a very biased opionion 9 times out of 10. You describe the guns in all your lists like you own every one. That is the folly of the internet and these forums. Is the critera for a poket gun from the National Pocket Gun Shooter Coilition, or arbitrary limits you put on them because you have a certian sized pocket? Load your PM with the slide stop on the first round, it will help.

RCG


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

recoilguy said:


> Reading what others think is fine but no way to pick a weapon. Your lists Are all very internet based. Go hold the guns...shot the guns when yo can. Forums give you a very small snapshot and a very biased opionion 9 times out of 10. You describe the guns in all your lists like you own every one. That is the folly of the internet and these forums. Is the critera for a poket gun from the National Pocket Gun Shooter Coilition, or arbitrary limits you put on them because you have a certian sized pocket? Load your PM with the slide stop on the first round, it will help.
> 
> RCG


This is the standard advice I received and I often have given. I'm not so sure it has much merit. I've found that weapons that I've handled and had feel good in my hands does not necessarily translate to weapons I can shoot well.

And weapons I could not shoot well in the beginning ended up being ones I could shoot very well after practice.

I'm not certain that "feeling good in the hand" or "rented and shot it well" are necessarily good predictors of whether you will end up shooting the weapon expertly or not.

But in the absence of any other predictive information I would probably stay with that same advice. But I would add this: Expect to buy and sell many weapons until you find the ones that work best for you.

Even the FBI could not do well on specifying weapons. They originally specified the 10mm for all their agents only to find out that many of them could not deal with the amount of recoil. If the FBI can't get it right on the 4th try (.38, .357, 9mm, 10mm to finally the .40 caliber) then you can't expect to do any better. (I don't think the FBI ever issued .45s, but I might be wrong on that.)

Correction: I just Googled "FBI, weapons" and found that their advanced SWAT teams use .45 caliber 1911s.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree with recoilguy

"feeling good in the hand" or "rented and shot it well" - Are about all you can go with.

But I have also learned that I still make mistakes and have to change guns in order to get exactly right for me.

I also agree that most opinions on any forum are very biased opinion 9 times out of 10 times .

Posters post their opinion w/o even owning the gun that they are talking about.

There are lots of folks that flat give bad advice on gun forums.

JMHO

:smt1099


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## HadEmAll (Dec 27, 2007)

cclaxton said:


> However, I have discovered an issue with mine which seems to be a common problem with this and other similar Kahr models: Hollow points Failure to Feed when the mag is loaded with the slide closed. It then jams the first round into the ramp and won't load. After the first round, it seems to work fine. So far all the HP's I have tried have the same problem.


You know, Kahr tells you in the manual how they want you to chamber the first round in Kahr. Slide locked back, insert loaded magazine, use slide release to drop the slide and chamber the round.

If you do it other than the manufacturer suggests, and induce a malfunction, is it really an issue and a problem with the gun or ammo? I think not.


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## HadEmAll (Dec 27, 2007)

I have the PM9 and it has been 100% out of the box. I think the PM9 has been around long enough to establish a track record of sorts. 

The LC9 hasn't exactly established a record yet. Ruger might yet end up juggling, for example, recoil spring strength ,etc if problems end up developing.

If it proves to be as reliable as the LCP has become it should be a winner. I want one, but am going to wait a few months to see how they hold up.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Ruger LCP9

No question


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## 1jimmy (Jul 30, 2011)

have a little expeience with ruger lcp, lc9 none with kahr except i too was interested in pm9 because of size and weight. all of these little guns have heavy triggers pulls and are not for me. suggestion would be a glock 26 or 27 not much bigger or heavier and not too costly. good luck! whatever you decide


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

*Kahr clear winner.*



HadEmAll said:


> If you do it other than the manufacturer suggests, and induce a malfunction, is it really an issue and a problem with the gun or ammo? I think not.


Agreed...within reason. Every gun has its idiosyncrasies. But if the mfr told me I had to manually rack the slide three times before inserting the magazine, that is unreasonable.

Once you get used to loading this way, it becomes second nature. It is not a problem at all.

What I do is manually load a round without the magazine in the Kahr using the slide release. Then, I load a full 7-round mag...now I have 8 shots ready to go. If I am doing fast reloading, the slide will already be open from the last round of the previous mag, so I just eject the empty and load the second one, releasing with the slide release and ready to go again for seven more rounds. Sometimes I use the six round mag plus one in the chamber, with two 7 round mags loaded. That is 20 rounds available.

To me the Kahr is a clear winner...if you can afford it. You may want to consider the CM-9 instead to save a little money, but the PM definitely has better clustering.

Good Luck!


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## Racinbob (Apr 30, 2011)

I think most folks have good luck with Kahrs. I didn't. Even after a trip back to Kahr, at my expense, the PM9 still wouldn't empty a mag without a malfunction. A fluke? Maybe. But I decided to stay away from them. My LC9 has been 100% out of the box. Mostly my reloads but it also ate some CCI aluminum perfectly. WWB and Critical Defense, 0 problems. It's the only "pocket" pistol that I sometimes carry instead of my 442.


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