# To Rail or not to Rail



## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm looking to get my first 1911 and have had my eyes on the Colt XSE and SIG Nitro, with and without rails. Also with or without getting the grip type lasers. For the money, I was looking at the Remington 1911 R1, but am not sure that is where I want to go, partly because there is no rail option, partly because I'm betting it's too good to be true.

So...what are the pros and cons? I realize that there is probably the aesthetics crowd that wouldn't have the rails, but I want this to be my go to home defense weapon. From that standpoint, I think the tactical light would be a great advantage, if mounted to the rails. The grip lasers don't float my boat, because they stand to mar the beauty by removing the OEM grips. Yes, I'm vain there.

Any input to help me come to grips would be appreciated!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I never put anything on the rails - I just like the added weight that the rails give (a little less recoil). And, I like the look.

My fav is the full rail operator...


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

That is the nicest looking railed 1911 I have seen. I didn't even think of the advantage of the added weight's affect on recoil. Thanks!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, that is a Springfield Custom Shop gun, so it was pretty expensive. But, I previously had a Springfield MC Operator. I sold it to pay for 1/2 of a non railed Ed Brown 1911. After I sold it, I missed it because the rail help cut some of the recoil - and that gun only has a 3/4 rail.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Shipwreck said:


> it was pretty expensive.


I figured as much and it does look really nice.


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## Frank45 (Feb 21, 2010)

It's nice too have the rail and a tactical light on it for HD,nothing like seeing what your about to shoot in the dark. Besides what Shipwreck said the added wieght my help with recoil. I have a Sig 1911R and it works well.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

If it's going to be used as a house gun, the rail is very nice option. A weapon mounted light is a pretty good asset. Unless you go with the full rail, the rail won't add much weight to the gun at all until you hang a light off it. Even if you decide to remove the light and carry the gun, holster selection for a railed 1911 is still pretty broad so you should be able to find something you like.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I don't know... The MC Operator is not a full rail, and it made a noticeable difference in recoil between it and my Ed Brown SF.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks all. At least the aversion I hear is aesthetics and not something else. Looked up the S&Ws today and they look fine too!

Maybe the Springfield Operator is the way to go for me. I. Think too, that the longer rail makes it look less of an after thought.


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## Tuefelhunden (Nov 20, 2006)

+1 all the above and that is a nice pick Shipwreck. Typically indifferent to rails myself since I don't dangle anything from them but that is a super sweet example. All but two of my handguns have a rail but it is incidental. Light for home defense does make good sense though so I guess it ultimately depends on your needs.


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## bmbroker (Mar 7, 2010)

*Taurus*

Have you considered a Taurus. I just got a stainless 1911 w/rail. Shoots great out of the box and I'm not an avid shooter. The out the door price was a little less than $700.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Yes, I have considered a Tarus. At our church's mens' retreat last October, I fired a PT1911 at six metal targets and hit them all. It felt really nice and I am sort of vacillating as to whether to go that route.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Good god, don't buy a Taurus. I have read many posts about Taurus 1911's having parts come off on the first range trips. Others have claimed that some of their parts are just slightly out of spec - to make people deal with Taurus for parts instead of using aftermarket parts.

Go buy ANYTHING from Springfield for the same price as a Taurus... You will be much happier...

And, please read some of these threads (posting these links is my new standard response to anything Taurus:

Taurus Buyer Be Warned - Glock Talk

Taurus Disappointment - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus 709 slim fail. help me find a new 9mm carry pistol. - AR15.COM

Another 709 slim fails.. - AR15.COM

Taurus semi-auto Quality Control going to crap? - Glock Talk

Taurus revolver troubles... - Glock Talk

Taurus 709- Problems - THR

Taurus Buyer Be Warned - THR

Taurus Quality: Objective Opinions...? - TheFiringLine Forums

Just bought a Taurus 85 and Im having a problem - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus Run-Around - TheFiringLine Forums

taurus repair turnaround time?? anyone.. - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus Frustration and Venting

Not a good showing for the Taurus 709 Slim. - TheFiringLine Forums

My Taurus 709 slim review... - TheFiringLine Forums

Are realy Taurus gun not reliable? - TheFiringLine Forums

Here We Go Again Taurus - TheFiringLine Forums

Taurus Question - TheFiringLine Forums


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Yeah, in the day, Taurus was the poor man's Beretta. Also, I have expensive tastes :-( . When I saw the Remington 1911 R1, I got excited, but I keep going back to Colt, Sringfield, S&W, or SIG Sauer.

If you want artisan machining, you gotta pay the price. I was shooting my Beretta 92SBC saturday, and I had forgotten how an extremely well made gun feels and handles!


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## DogRanger (Apr 12, 2008)

I like my Springfields......:mrgreen:


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

DogRanger said:


> I like my Springfields......:mrgreen:


Why? Inquiring minds want to know.

I have ruled out the SIG, because it doesn't look "traditional" and the clip extends below the grip. I have ruled out the S&W because it has an external extractor and the clip extends below the grip. None of those reasons are anything other than personal, I'm sure.

The Springfield shows the cartridge when chambered. That's nice, but does that cut CUPs? Their manaul says not to rack the slide unless chambering the round, as that could damage the breech. What's that about?

So I'm basically down to Colt or Springfield and the Colt "is" traditional and the railed part of the frame is longer.

Don't get me wrong, I would be happy as a pig in a poke with any one of the four!


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

On any 1911 - if you drop the slide hard on an empty chamber, it can mess up your nice trigger pull.

Despite the external extractor - the S&W 1911s are very nice.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Shipwreck said:


> On any 1911 - if you drop the slide hard on an empty chamber, it can mess up your nice trigger pull.


I figured that the other manufacturers are just being silent on the issue, not that I would abuse a gun that way in any event.

I really do like the visible casing when loaded.

As I used to be a Civil War re-enactor, I have a soft spot for Springfield and Colt. So now I guess I'm wrestling with the two of them.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Don't worry about the _magazine _sticking out past the frame, that's a mag issue, not a gun issue, you can put any flush fitting mag into the gun of your choice.

Other makers don't stress dropping the slide on empty it in the manual because unless you have a "fine" trigger job, you're not really going to damage anything.



> Always ease the slide down on an empty chamber, never slam it shut from slide lock. A G.I. rack grade 1911 may do fine when you slam the slide on the empty chamber, but a gun with a tuned trigger and fitted barrel will do better without it. The jarring of the slide slamming down on an empty chamber can cause the hammer to follow and the sear nose to crash into the hammer hooks. Your trigger job will last longer if you ease the slide down. Further, the lower lugs on a match fit barrel take a lot of impact when they contact the slide stop, and without the buffering effect of the round feeding into the chamber, you increase wear on your barrel by slamming the slide on an empty chamber. It's not the end of the world if the slide drops on an empty chamber, but it's not a good habit to develop either. It is the sign of an amateur 1911 handler.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Ah, now I'm thinking of the S&W again...LOL. Its roll marks sure look nice!

Does the Colt have a longer grip? It holds eight and in their photo of the O1070XSE, the magazine is flush. The photo of the O1070RG is without the magazine.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Any government size 1911s (5 inch models) will all have the same size grip.

There are just options for a 7 or 8 round mag for 1911s. They are the SAME size magazine - the follower is just shorter to allow the 8th round.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Shipwreck said:


> Any government size 1911s (5 inch models) will all have the same size grip.
> 
> There are just options for a 7 or 8 round mag for 1911s. They are the SAME size magazine - the follower is just shorter to allow the 8th round.


Then I assume the follower is not shortened, but the mag is longer on the guns that show a protrusion? The S&W and SIG mags extend beyond the bottom of the grip, but the Colts appear not to do so.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

No, some mags have a slampad - it makes the mag longer for easier andquicker insertion.


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

Ah, I thought that could be the only thing that could jive with what you had said. In the long run, I guess the difference between 7 and 8 in the same size mag would be reliability?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

ScottChapin said:


> Ah, I thought that could be the only thing that could jive with what you had said. In the long run, I guess the difference between 7 and 8 in the same size mag would be reliability?


Not really, what gets altered in the mag is the skirt of the follower and modern 8rd mags are pretty reliable, you can get 8 round mags that stick just a bit out the bottom from Wilson that are very reliable.

Here's a short bit about 1911 mags to explain some of it in a little more detail:
*A Quick Bit on 1911 Mags.*


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

In the past 7 rounders were more reliable than 8 rounders - not so much now... But some old timers still prefer 7 rounders...

I have a mixture of the two... I use the Tripp rebuild kits in some mags, and they are only 7 rounders (they replace the insides with a better spring and follower)


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## ScottChapin (Jul 7, 2010)

VAMarine said:


> Here's a short bit about 1911 mags to explain some of it in a little more detail:
> *A Quick Bit on 1911 Mags.*


Thanks, that helps a lot. Capacity is no longer an issue for me.

Since the S&W Precision and Pro line is soooooo much more expensive that the Colt XSEs and SA Operators, I wonder if the standard line is as good as them, match grade barrels etc.


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