# Another shooting?



## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Movie theater shooting, Colorado. Mall shooting in Oregon. And now inevitably you will all have already heard of the shooting in Connecticut by the time you read this, but at this time 28 are dead  I don't honestly know if more shootings are happening or if the media is just deciding to report them more. All in all, I am pretty frustrated these incidents because they are 100% preventable.

Even with the extreme stress and psychological factors that arouse when someone must use their gun in self defense, its worth while to have someone there who can stop nonsensical violence. The killers and criminals in our world kill with such ease. Its so commonsensical to me yet these incidences are being used against us as they are politicized.

Why haven't we been able to run a campaign against these dumb carry law exceptions? A definite reason is the politicians don't want us to have guns, even some of your beloved Republicans would rather not talk about it (see your very own Presidential elect Mitt Romney). So these politicians have time, money, and energy to dump into gun control and even convince some of us its a good idea. The gun rights issue in my opinion is strictly Politicians vs. Citizens, we are more unorganized then they are both financially and structurally, yet we outnumber them???

Anyways guys this stuff I predict will be coming up more and more now in the media its clear that the government will be using this to build a case for strict gun control in this country. The president is from Illinois and were next door neighbors here in Iowa, I know how awesome Illinois gun control is working out.

You should be able to carry absolutely anywhere if you are a good citizen without a felony record since history shows gun free zones are the #1 places where these things happen. Next time someone puts a gun or a knife or whatever tool they think to use to kill are you going to remind them that gun control is illegal?

But I'm the crazy one...

One man has the potential to stop an entire band of evil ones. If one of these things happen in my area (while im not carrying) I honestly can't say how I will react. I will say that I hope to have the strength not to simply run away even if I'm not armed in a no carry zone. I read in a readers digest about a kid who stabbed another kid with guns with a pencil and stopped him from killing an entire class room (I cant cite this specific case but heres another readers digest with a kid who wrestled a gunman down http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1591956/posts). A whole bunch people can be saved if someone risk theirs to save others. I understand its different when your in the situation but the pattern is clear and we need to take a stand both politically and socially...


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

barstoolguru said:


> They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future


You can count on it.

Watch for a permanent "assault weapon" ban and a limit of 10 rounds in semi-auto magazines for rifle and handgun. Initially, currently owned evil and "ugly" (read that as military in appearance semi-auto rifles which are NOT assault rifles at all) and higher capacity magazines will not be affected. But if we get several more incidences like what happened today, then you very well may see attempts at confiscation.

So buy up extra magazines and if you do not have an AR, a Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30, an SKS, or some similar semi-auto centerfire rifle, get one or more before they are outlawed.


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## goNYG (Apr 4, 2012)

barstoolguru said:


> They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future


Yes, his press guy said today is not the day to talk about gun control and then he got up and said something meaningful must be done regardless of the politics, whatever than means.


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## goNYG (Apr 4, 2012)

I support a "Twisted and Alienated Young Men Ban".


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

goNYG said:


> Yes, his press guy said today is not the day to talk about gun control and then he got up and said something meaningful must be done regardless of the politics, whatever than means.


Yeah I don't understand "now is not the time to talk about it"

Ok so we waited because of Portland which just happened a few days ago, and what now we wait for more to happen, then whens the time to talk about it ever coming?


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

They are going to use this as a soapbox, to many shootings lately. They are not looking at the age group and the fact that the younger kids are playing these video games where they can kill as many people as they want and when they get frustrated they act out that world in real life; What is the old saying “that life mirrors fantasy”?


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## goNYG (Apr 4, 2012)

We've been talking about it for years. We talked about it after Columbine, after Tucson, after Aurora, and right now. We have been and we are always talking about it. Which should lead one to ask, 
"what conclusions have we come to?" I'd say it's fairly clear that we've come to the following conclusion, more or less: "We fundamentally value our constitutional RKBA; we understand that there are risks that access to guns will lead to bad outcomes, unspeakable tragedies even, but we are willing to accept those risks based on a variety of offsetting benefits." 

Everybody has an opinion, I don't think anybody's holding anything back, do you? There is no shortage of politicians looking to solve their constituents' problems and we have many and frequent elections. We keep massive amounts of statistics on crime, we have numerous scholars who study those statistics and present analyses. I'm not sure what is missing from the conversation? And what has been the general trend in ownership and legislation? More ownership and less restrictive legislation - that is what our non-stop, ongoing conversation has led to, for good or ill. So, add to the debate, keep talking about it, but please spare us the tedious pleas to finally have a conversation when it's been going on for forever.


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this “gun free zone” crap and realize it’s not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.

If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again. 

What’s amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack


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## FloridaGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

barstoolguru said:


> I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this "gun free zone" crap and realize it's not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.
> 
> If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again.
> 
> What's amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack


I agree 100% we need to remove these "gun free zones". Let's face it we live in a society and world were everyone needs to protect themselves.


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

Massad Ayoob discussed the solution of shooters in schools in this article as being the most effective:



> "Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s, when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident. The volunteer parents work in plain clothes, armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols, and are trained by Israel's home guard. It is significant that in the more than a quarter century between Maalot and the incident mentioned above when the citizen guards shot down the terrorist in the school in 2002, not a single child was murdered in an Israeli school!"


In time of war: The Israeli answer to terrorism by Massad Ayoob


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## Ala Tom (Apr 1, 2011)

One of the anchors on TV said there are no background checks on 40% of guns sold on Internet. I posted a note on Huffington post questioning that. I described how it works for most purchases where the gun is shipped to a licensed dealer who notifies the local sheriff for a background check and then sells you the gun across the counter so there is little difference between buying in a store and buying from an on-line source. Boy did the anti-gun crowd come after me. They called me a liar, a fraud and a few other things. Boy if that crowd ever gets their hands on guns, look out. They're a bunch of nasty rascals. There is a lot of mis-information out there and they don't want anyone to correct them!


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## dhonda02 (Feb 6, 2012)

The mall shooting in Oregon.....stolen gun. The tragedy today in Connecticut.......guns not registered in shooters name , taken from his Mother ( guns she bought and registered in her name?) that he shot in the face, stole her car and proceeded to drive to the school where he caused an absolute tragedy. Let's not forget about the innocent children and staff. What bothers me the most is that not one poster here has shown any sympathy , what so ever, to the victims but , instead, are worried about gun control. Shoulda, woulda , coulda. How sad that the victims can't be remembered just for a few minutes without this becoming political. Jakeleinen1, do tell me how these incidents are 100% preventable as I would like to pass it on to local and state police?


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

> guns not registered in shooters name , taken from his Mother


Why does mom need an AR-15 type rifle.....? She bought those guns for the kids (just my opinion)



> What bothers me the most is that not one poster here has shown any sympathy


we feel the pain and grief for the parents and family's but what we feel even more is the wave of BS that is coming. Every time something happens they want to regulate the market like that is going to do something. Someone loses control of their guns and 50 million people get punished, I see no justice just politics


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## dhonda02 (Feb 6, 2012)

barstoolguru said:


> Why does mom need an AR-15 type rifle.....? She bought those guns for the kids (just my opinion)


So you saying that women can't have an AR-15? That the AR-15 (and similar) are just for men? Wow, just wow.


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## dhonda02 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hey barstoolguru (name says it all, lol) still no mention of sympathy, from you or anyone else, for the victims today.


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## barstoolguru (Mar 3, 2012)

> So you saying that women can't have an AR-15? That the AR-15 (and similar) are just for men? Wow, just wow.


I never said that but what I am saying is straw buy (if you can prove different post it ) and I am sorry for what happen but just because someone runs someone over with a car don't mean the shut the hwy down for ever. Here is your sympathy so get over it and focus on the real problems like she didn't secure HER rifle or HER guns and allowed access from her mental son. we can sit here and piss on each other's shoes but that gets nothing done


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## dhonda02 (Feb 6, 2012)

LOL you forget I don't need or want the sympathy, I am still alive. Wow you seem so hard. I'm wearing rubber boots so you can piss all you want. Me , I only piss in the toilet, outside or in a porta john. Merry Christmas and do try not to be such a Grinch!  Oh, straw buy? You prove it is then you post it. Remember that I'm wearing rubber boots! LOL. Oh and a mom is a woman.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

dhonda02 said:


> Jakeleinen1, do tell me how these incidents are 100% preventable as I would like to pass it on to local and state police?


Oh its simple really, you know the teachers you trust your kids with? Why don't you let acouple responsible ones have a gun somewhere?

This is just coming from a 23 year old kid who had a guy in my class of 100 kids (400 in my high school) senior year come to school with multiple shotguns and 8 boxes of ammo to kill everybody over something with his girlfriend. They only got him before he went to school because he posted about it on facebook. Id rather have my teachers have been able to stop him then watch everyone die.

And as far as sympathy goes what does it do? There was literally just a mass shooting in Portland Oregan and yet nothing has changed. The definition of insainity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different to happen? In China TODAY there was a mass stabbing where a doctor stabbed 22 children. No one feels sorry for them. How about the collateral damage that happens in Iraq, Afganhastan, and all over the world EVERYDAY?

People die, and the fact of the matter is just because they are from our country doesn't make them any more important then the people who lose their lives everyday to stuff even worse than this (hard to believe but see Africa). I am CONSTANTLY concious of the people who lose their lives all over the world not just in the US. Im not going to fake cry about it like Obama though.

The difference between what happens in the rest of the world and in the US is we could have stopped it if we didn't have green signs and we trusted eachother alittle bit more to have someone have a gun in a gun free zone.


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## dhonda02 (Feb 6, 2012)

jakeleinen1 said:


> Oh its simple really, you know the teachers you trust your kids with? Why don't you let acouple responsible ones have a gun somewhere?
> 
> This is just coming from a 23 year old kid who had a guy in my class of 100 kids (400 in my high school) senior year come to school with multiple shotguns and 8 boxes of ammo to kill everybody over something with his girlfriend. They only got him before he went to school because he posted about it on facebook. Id rather have my teachers have been able to stop him then watch everyone die.
> 
> ...


You say it's easy. Well lets look at that. The majority of teachers would be liberal. Would you agree? Second, how far do you think (letting " a couple of responsible ones" have guns?). Neve rmind the backlash of the so called liberals in this country, you know the ones that are anti gun? I get what you are saying but one has to look at the overall picture. Look outside the box. Just because you and I and a few others think that would be the answer ( teachers with guns ) isn't all that feasible with the majority. You see in this day and time, we as responsible gun owners, have become the minority. The media, liberals and anti guns have stave off anyone that can't and will not think for themselves, rationally or just with plain common sense. You mentioned the stabbings in China today. The way the libs think is, that no one was killed but if there was a gun involved there would have been. Get the meaning? There is some difference in the collateral damage and the shootings today. One is war, which is never good and the other is one that is not war but a peaceful town that has been erupted in the slayings of innocent children. I know what you are thinking but we are talking two different worlds. Is it so bad to stop and have sympathy for any one that does not deserve to die in anyway, form or fashion of such a young age no matter where they are from? Death is never easy and hard to take especially when it is close to home. You are 23 and hopefully have a full life ahead of you. Think wisely and diligently . Think outside the box. See things from more than one perspective. Most of all listen to all and take what you believe to be the most trusting. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays and sit straight in the saddle.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Not badly stated dhonda02, and I do understand what you are saying. It is sad how we have become the minority  that i agree with you on and yes the teachers would most likely be against carry but

My main point is that I believe in America still. We have many problems now, and just because there are so many ignorant and naive citizens doesn't mean I still wont do anything to preserve the rights we have, bc honestly, everyday they are less and less. Just like common sense is going away. I can't give up on this. I don't just write about it on forums, I am active outside of online too and thats something that people these days don't do. 99% of people post useless opinions on facebook and call it a day never changing themselves

Happy holidays buddy...


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## DjSaneR (Jan 13, 2007)

dhonda02 said:


> You say it's easy. Well lets look at that. The majority of teachers would be liberal. Would you agree? Second, how far do you think (letting " a couple of responsible ones" have guns?). Neve rmind the backlash of the so called liberals in this country, you know the ones that are anti gun? I get what you are saying but one has to look at the overall picture. Look outside the box. Just because you and I and a few others think that would be the answer ( teachers with guns ) isn't all that feasible with the majority. You see in this day and time, we as responsible gun owners, have become the minority. The media, liberals and anti guns have stave off anyone that can't and will not think for themselves, rationally or just with plain common sense. You mentioned the stabbings in China today. The way the libs think is, that no one was killed but if there was a gun involved there would have been. Get the meaning? There is some difference in the collateral damage and the shootings today. One is war, which is never good and the other is one that is not war but a peaceful town that has been erupted in the slayings of innocent children. I know what you are thinking but we are talking two different worlds. Is it so bad to stop and have sympathy for any one that does not deserve to die in anyway, form or fashion of such a young age no matter where they are from? Death is never easy and hard to take especially when it is close to home. You are 23 and hopefully have a full life ahead of you. Think wisely and diligently . Think outside the box. See things from more than one perspective. Most of all listen to all and take what you believe to be the most trusting. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays and sit straight in the saddle.


Well said.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I expect to see the following:

o A ban on the importation, manufacture, and sale of semi-automatic "assault weapons" to include all of the 19 original rifles in the 1994 Assault Weapons ban as well as any new rifles of a similar style and utility.

o A ban on the importation, manufacture, and sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

o All private sales of firearms to go through the NICS and transferred by a licensed FFL dealer.

o The proposal of a national 10-day waiting period (this is a back door to kill gun shows).

o The proposal of licensing and registration laws with permanent record keeping at the federal level.


The next major move on the horizon from these people would be to reclassify all currently owned semi-automatic rifles and pistols as Class 2 firearms. This would be devastating to the firearms industry and would seriously thin the number of privately owned firearms in this country. Another one or two horrific incidences like we saw at the school in Newtown, Connecticut could be the event(s) that push this one over the edge.

The real danger in all of this is Obama acting outside of the congress and doing these things on his own. With this man and his minions, nothing is off of the table and I wouldn't trust them at all (I don't trust most politicians, anyway). The congress, the house in particular, just gets in his way and he is more of a mind to do things around them than to go through them as demanded by the Constitution. But then again, when has that document ever stopped any of these people who are really bent on limiting our rights?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I've posted the following on another forum, but I believe that it fits in here as well:

Crazy people remain crazy, or get crazier, in a permissive Progressive society that believes it is wrong to incarcerate them against their will-as if the insane were able to make such a reasoned choice.
And then, when uncontrolled crazy people do crazy, harmful things, the permissive Progressive society tells them that they bear no responsibility for having done those crazy, harmful things. No penalties and no restrictions are applied.
The result of this insane Political Correctness on the part of the permissive Progressive society is that insane people are not identified, and are neither observed nor restricted. Thus they are free to do all of the harm that their personal demons require of them.

And, since he behaved true to form, thus I have defined the Connecticut child-killer.

But that's OK: It was the gun's fault. After all, crazy people are never responsible for their own actions, _Q.E.D._


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Here's another one:

Jean, a retired educator—specifically in special education, in fact—suggests that the Connecticut shooting was the expected result of wholesale denial: By both parents of the shooter, by the schools he attended (including the school he shot up), and by society in general.
This wholesale denial, we both feel, is the result of the Progressive technique of calling disabled people "differently abled," as if there were nothing wrong, and as if the disability did not matter. Thus, Adam (the shooter) was never seriously supervised as a slightly-aberrant personality, and thus his mother did not keep her firearms safe from his access, even though it is fairly well known that similar personalities tend to "crack" at unpredictable times.
This all fits into the general characteristic of our permissive Progressive society: a perversion of reality, which requires, for instance, that all big-city busses be expensively modified to "kneel" to accept wheelchairs, when it would be far less costly to provide specially-equipped, smaller busses providing door-to-door service to the seriously disabled. That is, everybody must be served alike, and no functional differentiation can be permitted.
This societal attitude can, of course, be easily traced to our current Progressive preoccupation with pseudo-equality: We have changed from a society of equal opportunity to a society which demands equality of outcome, a will-'o'-the-wisp we continue to chase even as society falls apart around us as the result.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Steve you makes some fantastic points, its sad how we take the instruments of destruction are considered the more serious problem then the emotional health of the people we deem "crazy" (which in my opinion is an oversimplication and slightly dismissive) its much easier to deem people crazy then to crack the surface of why these things happen in our culture. 

Personally I don't care too much about the whys (although I find it unsettling that the media hasn't really tried to ponder the question why would someone do this, though there may be no explanation its worth looking into), I get more angry about the ways we can prevent this kind of stuff.

And additionally, these line of shootings (Colorado, Oregon, Conn.) have been having are very... well... convientantly timely. Its worth mentioning that the government has no history of giving people LSD and other psycotic drugs in experimental settings working with mind control and/ or fabricating events. This has never happened in the history of the United States. So its just a coincidence that these 3 shootings have happened very close to each other and have no explanation other then the person was crazy.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I sent this out this morning to people on my email contacts list. It is relevant here, too.


The shooting in Connecticut yesterday was a horrific and tragic event and I am sure no one on this list would say otherwise. Several days ago on another website, actually close to a week ago, someone made the comment that the number of incidences such as this were the same in past years as we have been seeing in current ones. Well that is just not true. There are far more of them now than what we saw, say, 40 to 60 years ago. In those times, a mass shooting was uncommon and just not something that occurred much... in fact they were rare. So what has changed? How have we gotten to the point in our history that we are seeing these events more and more?

Firstly, I should get something out of the way up front with this. It's not the easy availability of firearms. Frankly they were more readily available back in those times then they are now. You could buy them in hardware stores, gas stations, mom and pop what-not stores, and a host of other places. There was no instant check, no federal 4473 forms to fill out with their state equivalents, and no waiting periods. Even Montgomery Wards sold them. And you could buy them through mail order from a host of sources. So what has happened? What factors have been introduced in the interim that have resulted in what we are seeing today?

It is the general breakdown of our society. Starting quietly but in earnest in the early 50's and proceeding with acceleration into and through the 60's, we began to see moves to alter our nation into something else, something other than its orginal design. Our traditions, our culture, our heritage, our institutions, and our history came under heavy fire. Radical elements worked diligently to undermine these historic glues of our society to unravel them and put other controls in their place. As each generation was born, we moved further away from the previous generation's attempts to pass on that which was passed on to it. For some things, this was good... for others, not so good.

Natural controls are always better than artificial ones and when you remove natural controls, the wolf is at the door since artificial controls are rarely supported by the people. We have seen a degradation of our national character, our national soul if you will, to a point where we are in real danger of destroying ourselves. This is not an indictment of a specific political party since both are guilty of sleeping at their post. And I will not get into a discussion of liberal versus conservative positions here. But I have seen this all take place in my lifetime and have been witness to its concerted beginnings and what we have now.

Friends, we are in a mess in this country. And it's not going to get any better any time soon. Some are calling for more and stricter firearms control but that's not going to do a damned thing. It's nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to a serious problem and these problems will continue regardless of how much control we may place on firearms. The very folks who are screaming the loudest for these controls are the same sort of people who brought us to this point in the first place. And now they're asking, they're demanding we give up more of our rights to correct the problems and the mess they have created.

I'm afraid we have gone too far and unfortunately, at this point we can't turn back because that wolf in no longer at the door; he's in our house. It is going to get worse and I hate to say that. Perhaps by getting worse, things will flesh out and the people will wake up and see what has been lost. But I doubt it.

So please pray for the parents and families who lost loved ones in yesterday's tragedy. Pray that we can turn this ship around and seek the light before darkness envelops us completely. And pray for our nation as you never prayed before.

I love my friends on this list and wish nothing but the best for all of you. May you all have a Merry Christmas and give thought to what Christmas is really about. Hold your children a little longer, if you have them. Call a friend or stop by and just talk to them. Embrace your family.

God bless you all.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I didn't even read 3 scattered posts.This is nothing new,when political turmoil happens the activists try to become martyrs or the nutjobs show their face.Can you be surprized in today's world?Kids don't go out and play,they sit on electronic games,it takes both parents to provide (if there is 2),and the schools taught them years ago to call the cops or HRS if you spank them.Timeouts work very young,then a belt on your ass wakes up the brain.Welcome to the New World Disorder our previous and current-2nd term?-POS has turned this country into in the quest for an impossible utopia.

Cut the friggin power grid in the world and step back 2 centuries,those that perish leave more knowledge and food to the survivors to learn from history,which obviously nobody "in power" that matters can comprehend now.People that have babies now are idiots in my opinion,between the pending diseases,the current famine,the world's political shape and economy,who TF would want to put someone through that?Actually I should say spit out multiple kids,one (or two) well taught child is better than a few that have partially caused some of these problems,or are multiplying to drain the system even worse.The entitlement generation isn't BS.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

We are very sad here about the shootings. My children are afraid to go to school Monday.My wife is afraid to send them to school. I can not imagine how the families are dealing with such a loss. I can not imagine the pains of the victims families.
My wife understands more my need to carry and possess a firearm on my person and having it always readily available at home .I do not let my children know I carry.
I consider the act in newton a domestic terorrist event. Gun control, is not the issue. Gun Placement should be the issue. Where do we need guns for immediate protection and prevention should be the issue. IMO


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## jm38 (Jun 30, 2012)

jakeleinen1 said:


> Not badly stated dhonda02, and I do understand what you are saying. It is sad how we have become the minority  that i agree with you on and yes the teachers would most likely be against carry but
> 
> My main point is that I believe in America still. We have many problems now, and just because there are so many ignorant and naive citizens doesn't mean I still wont do anything to preserve the rights we have, bc honestly, everyday they are less and less. Just like common sense is going away. I can't give up on this. I don't just write about it on forums, I am active outside of online too and thats something that people these days don't do. 99% of people post useless opinions on facebook and call it a day never changing themselves
> 
> Happy holidays buddy...


I carry concealed everyday, in my house, on my property, in public, where ever I go so goes my weapon. 
My wife is a retired school teacher, would never object to my carrying but would never own a gun or use a gun to protect her classroom....Its just the liberal mentality that is pounded into their mindsets through all those years in education.
So good luck in arming the teachers.


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## codeye (Dec 8, 2012)

barstoolguru said:


> I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this "gun free zone" crap and realize it's not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.
> 
> If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again. .What's amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack


 ita simple if you ban guns then the criminals are the only ones with them. Canada tried it and crme rate doubled over night. Doesnt seem to to be working to me, but who am I. I still see commercail jets in the sky since911, why not ake them away.That was alot worse than any fool with a gun and a bad brain. stupid people is the problem.


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## maxhall1023 (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't think there is a conspiracy issue at play here with this most recent shooting. Being only 30 with more FB friends than anyone would ever need its funny to read everyone's opinion on the problem. Just another example of how polarized America has become. It ranges from people saying gun's aren't the problem and if someone was carrying maybe this tragedy wouldn't have been so devastating to the response of all guns are evil and are only made to kill other human beings. Personally I think the biggest issue is the Media. Whenever this happens the only thing on the news is detailed coverage into the assailants psyche and possible motivations. This immortalizes these pieces of shit and makes these sad little psycho's who might just kill themselves decide to try and one up the guy with current mass murder record. Stop giving these sicko's so much publicity and focus on the victims. Mention their names and that is it. I also believe it's the degradation of our society in general and our weak ass justice system that is making these shootings more common-place. Why we treat criminals with kid gloves is beyond me. Put a bullet in their head, after due process of course, none of this resort style prison systems. Also identifying these deranged individuals early and being able to get them the help they need even if its against their will.

I live in MA which really sucks when it comes to guns and I don't really get the ban of >10 clip magazines. If you're proficient at changing magazines/ have multiple guns is it really going to make a difference with the amount of carnage one person can inflict?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

maxhall1023 said:


> ..._dentifying these deranged individuals early and being able to get them the help they need even if its against their will..._


_
Sorry: This is not permitted, in our Progressive, equality-of-outcome-driven society.
Yeah, truly, it is against the law!

The insane can be involuntarily committed, but only after they've done something seriously antisocial, for instance killing 20 children and six adults in an elementary school.
Otherwise, the insane must self-commit of they feel that they need help.
That is, our society expects the insane to behave rationally, and to ask for help.

Riddle me that one, Batman._


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I strongly suggest that you read this: The Anarchist Soccer Mom: Thinking the Unthinkable

The mother of another "Adam," an Asperger's patient who turns violent when frustrated or thwarted, here details her trials and tribulations, and also discusses society's incredible inability to offer any help at all.


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

This whole thing has me speechless. I can only imagine the pain that the parents of these children must feel.


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## codeye (Dec 8, 2012)

jakeleinen1 said:


> Not badly stated dhonda02, and I do understand what you are saying. It is sad how we have become the minority  that i agree with you on and yes the teachers would most likely be against carry but
> 
> My main point is that I believe in America still. We have many problems now, and just because there are so many ignorant and naive citizens doesn't mean I still wont do anything to preserve the rights we have, bc honestly, everyday they are less and less. Just like common sense is going away. I can't give up on this. I don't just write about it on forums, I am active outside of online too and thats something that people these days don't do. 99% of people post useless opinions on facebook and call it a day never changing themselves
> 
> Happy holidays buddy...


You are right about that. The only groupof people left in this country that will join up to get something done is really the gays or whatever they go by nowand they learnt that from the black community which is now too lazy and selfish to give a damn. So why cant we forget all the crap and pull together as one and clean out some politicans and the crap job they have done for us. I mean its like we dont care and just live with it.Happy and safe holidays to all


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I've posted the following on another forum, but I believe that it fits in here as well:
> 
> Crazy people remain crazy, or get crazier, in a permissive Progressive society that believes it is wrong to incarcerate them against their will-as if the insane were able to make such a reasoned choice.
> And then, when uncontrolled crazy people do crazy, harmful things, the permissive Progressive society tells them that they bear no responsibility for having done those crazy, harmful things. No penalties and no restrictions are applied.
> ...


Steve, you hit the nail on the head as usual. This is a major ground roots problem with society as opposed to gun restrictions and confiscation issues. We need to look at the current core condition of our society in the U.S.. Placing a weapons (ban)-aid on a cancerous growth does nothing to treat the cancer(unlike what Feinstein and her ilk would leave you to believe).. Ban so called assault weapons, (I refer to mine as defense weapons thank-you) and you relegate law abiding citizens to major restrictions thus you have the slippery slope in which our forefathers forewarned and loathed. Contrary to popular belief, owning defense weapons is a last resort to a defense against a tyrannical government. If you don't believe me do a search of Thomas Jefferson and the majority of our framers of the Constitution. Nuts and the truly sick who commit heinous acts serve to punish the great majority(perhaps at least 60 million with restriction in which had no part). I just sent 85.00 to the NRA because they truly are the only ones in a position to fight to protect our rights, but it isn't looking good.


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## prevost (Aug 29, 2012)

Killing people is a moral problem not a societal problem. There are few people who want to talk about morality these days. It's no wonder that there are no longer any moral taboos. What was considered immoral 40 years ago is being made formally legal today by voters, legislators, and our courts. I believe there is a relationship between "defining deviancy down" and an increase in the disregard for other people. An uptick in 'Moral Misfits' is the result.

The usual suspects are out in force calling for additional gun-control measures. School children are most vulnerable to gun violence. They can't defend themselves, and neither can the teachers. Schools are "Gun Free Zones," but only for the law abiding. Criminals don't care about gun laws; that's why they're criminals.

Thieves don't care about laws against theft, and rapists don't care about laws against rape. The same is true about drinking and driving. We've just had a high profile drunk driving arrest. "Dallas Cowboys nose tackle Josh Price-Brent was arrested early Saturday morning [December 8, 2012] on intoxication manslaughter charges involving a car accident that killed teammate Jerry Brown."

Laws won't stop people intent on doing harm.

So what do the law-abiding citizens do? They arm themselves just like they would in war. There are terror insurgents in the United States hell-bent on destroying others. That's a fact.

Just the other day a young woman was murdered when she told three teenage thugs to "get a job."

More people are killed in the United States through violent means than are killed in our current foreign wars. In March of this year, violence in Chicago had left 52 people dead - more than twice as many as died in the March of 2011. There were 39 Coalition Military Fatalities in Afghanistan during the same month.

Schools should immediately develop a program where every teacher is trained in how to handle a firearm. All teachers must comply to get hired. If Israel can do it, why not America? Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America wrote the following in 2008: "In the mid-seventies, a terrorist attacked an Israeli school bus, murdering over 30 children. . . . A majority of Israelis . . . found a compelling reason for putting guns in schools - terrorists would get guns whether Jews were armed or not. As a result, schools in border areas, and school buses, were manned with gun-toting teachers or others assigned to be at the ready."

Signs should be posted around the school that read:

"The teachers and administrators of this school are armed and trained in deadly force. Anybody attempting to enter the school intending to do harm will be shot on sight."

Instead, if a student draws what looks like a gun, he'll be suspended for ten days.

And what should we do with those who are involved in a murder spree? They should be executed. The man who shot and killed a number of people at Gabrielle Gifford's campaign rally and the man who killed the people in the movie theater are still alive.

There is no doubt that these men killed these people. Their mental state, either before or after the shootings, is irrelevant. They should be dead by now.

We need some public executions to send a message.

Let's stop blaming law-abiding citizens and go after the criminals.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

prevost said:


> Killing people is a moral problem not a societal problem. There are few people who want to talk about morality these days. It's no wonder that there are no longer any moral taboos. What was considered immoral 40 years ago is being made formally legal today by voters, legislators, and our courts. I believe there is a relationship between "defining deviancy down" and an increase in the disregard for other people. An uptick in 'Moral Misfits' is the result.
> 
> The usual suspects are out in force calling for additional gun-control measures. School children are most vulnerable to gun violence. They can't defend themselves, and neither can the teachers. Schools are "Gun Free Zones," but only for the law abiding. Criminals don't care about gun laws; that's why they're criminals.
> 
> ...


Can't do this. They do have a right to a trial as stated in the Bill of Rights. Where we err with this one is failing to carry out the death penalty in so many cases.

You are spot in in your post. This is all by design and a deliberate action on the part of those who would see this nation turned into something completely foreign to its original design. Remove the pieces that hold a people together and this is what you get.


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## prevost (Aug 29, 2012)

we have a right to bear arms also, and that may change completely, But I understand, Also I am not smart enough to write that post above, just pasted it from a great friend, as an interesting article, with which I agree mostly,


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## Harryball (Oct 10, 2012)

TheReaper said:


> This whole thing has me speechless. I can only imagine the pain that the parents of these children must feel.


Sad day indeed. At this point who cares about the political side of things. It will come out and we can fight then. The children and parents should have our prayers.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*America is Egypt: The Land of Denial*
Note that the author of this essay denies that autism is an illness, and that autistics can be uncontrollably violent, while, in the very same essay, she describes the actions of an uncontrollable and very violent autistic child.

(Excerpted from an op-ed essay in _The New York Times_)

*Don't Blame Autism for Newtown*
By Priscilla Gilman
(Published: December 17, 2012)

...Asperger's and autism are not forms of mental illness; they are neurodevelopmental disorders or disabilities.

...While autistic children can sometimes be aggressive, this is usually because of their frustration at being unable to express themselves verbally, or their extreme sensory sensitivities...

We should encourage greater compassion for all parents facing an extreme challenge, whether they have children with autism or mental illness or have lost their children to acts of horrific violence (and that includes the parents of killers).

Consider this, posted on Facebook yesterday by a friend of mine from high school who has an 8-year-old, nonverbal child with severe autism:

"Today Timmy was having a first class melt down in Barnes and Nobles and he rarely melts down like this. He was throwing his boots, rolling on the floor, screaming and sobbing. Everyone was staring as I tried to pick him up and [his brother Xander] scrambled to pick up his boots. I was worried people were looking at him and wondering if he would be a killer when he grows up because people on the news keep saying this Adam Lanza might have some spectrum diagnosis...My son is the kindest soul you could ever meet. Yesterday, a stranger looked at Timmy and said he could see in my son's eyes and smile that he was a kind soul; I am thankful that he saw that"...

(Priscilla Gilman is the author of "The Anti-Romantic Child: A Memoir of Unexpected Joy.")


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## Reddog1 (Oct 26, 2011)

They just make things up to support their positions. You can't reason with stupid. The most distressing thing to me is that without fair representation in the media we are screwed. It's two against one. They don't really want to spend the time to solve this, they just want a quick fix. This country has lost the ability to have constructive conversations with differing views. It will ot change untill a lot of people wake up.


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## Reddog1 (Oct 26, 2011)

Ala Tom said:


> One of the anchors on TV said there are no background checks on 40% of guns sold on Internet. I posted a note on Huffington post questioning that. I described how it works for most purchases where the gun is shipped to a licensed dealer who notifies the local sheriff for a background check and then sells you the gun across the counter so there is little difference between buying in a store and buying from an on-line source. Boy did the anti-gun crowd come after me. They called me a liar, a fraud and a few other things. Boy if that crowd ever gets their hands on guns, look out. They're a bunch of nasty rascals. There is a lot of mis-information out there and they don't want anyone to correct them!
> 
> They just make things up to support their positions. You can't reason with stupid. The most distressing thing to me is that without fair representation in the media we are screwed. It's two against one. They don't really want to spend the time to solve this, they just want a quick fix. This country has lost the ability to have constructive conversations with differing views. It will ot change untill a lot of people wake up.


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## SigShooter599 (Dec 5, 2012)

My wife was a teacher's aide in Va where we live. She said you can get into the office from the street, but you have to be let into the school... So how is it he can walk into a Conneticut school after this has happened so many times and get to those kids? Can't they build a secure school?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

SigShooter599 said:


> ...Can't they build a secure school?


No, "they" can't.
Nobody can.
There's no such thing as a "secure" anything.

Personal security-even the security of your kids in school-is your own responsibility, and nobody else's.
The only way to be truly secure is to abdicate all responsibility to some authority, so that, when something bad happens, you can point to that authority and say, "It's all their fault."
(And, by the way, that seems to be where this country is headed.)

If you abdicate your responsibility to some authority, you will also be abdicating your liberty along with it. You will be relying upon someone else, to make you and your family "safe and secure." It will then be up to that authority to decide how much liberty should be allowed to you. After all, if you have too much liberty, you might pass beyond the reach of the securing authority.

Liberty, and the freedom to exercise it, belongs only to the personally responsible.
So don't ask, "Can't they build a secure school." Instead, volunteer to make your children's school more safe and secure. Lobby your legislators. Make demands upon your school board. Put in some personal security-guard time.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> No, "they" can't.
> Nobody can.
> There's no such thing as a "secure" anything.


^ fantastic point. Security is an illusion. Live in the real world people.

But my idea of a secure area is one with guns everywhere. Thats a polite society.


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## jasmine2501 (Oct 10, 2012)

When I first heard of this, my thought was "don't they have security guards at schools" ... I wonder that every time. We know that a person with a gun can show up and do this, and we do nothing to stop it? When you know you might face a man with a gun, shouldn't it be obvious that what you need is a man with a gun on your side?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

jasmine2501 said:


> When I first heard of this, my thought was "don't they have security guards at schools"[?]...


Who is this "they" of whom you write?

Being emphatic, but entirely ungrammatical: _You_ is the "they."

If your local school needs a security guard, why not volunteer?


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

A security guard??? You gotta be kidding..


We have secuirty guards around here, they do not carry weapons and are jokes.

Now don't get me wrong Im not knocking these guys, inevitably i may have to go into that business to be considered for an LEO officier, but a security guard has never been the solution to any problem ever.

Neither will I mention would having a police in every school be a valid option. They would be too concerned with red tape and ticketing people rather then defending children and the people who pay their pension.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

So, OK, *Jake*, tell us what your suggestion is.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Those teachers, you know the ones that we trust our kids minds with? You could let them CCW, thats literally the only thing you would need to do. What if they don't want to CCW? Then the Principal should. I mean he's the discipline in the school? How come people don't trust each other anymore? Everybody believes the world is an evil and cruel place yet it is not. It is a place where we are all scarred of eachother! My generation feels more at home talking to people through glass (cells and computers) then talking in person. Where are we?

We don't have to pay the government more money for extra police or useless security guards (like the TSA who end up molesting you).

There were teachers in my high school that like it or not, I would have trusted to have a gun. Don't want an adult shooting a crazy teenage psychopath. Thats fine too, just let him watch innocent people die. It is our choice what happens to these people. But as I have said before, this is coming from a guy who went to a HS where literally one of our classmates went berserk, so what do I know about being a fish in a barrel...


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

So how does that differ from letting a responsible parent (or a cadre of parents) carry a concealed weapon and act as a volunteer security guard?
Teacher, volunteering parent, principal—there isn't any functional difference.
All the CCW adult needs is a sense of responsibility and some time commitment, including for training.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Security guard = no guns where Im from

In other places Im sure they let them be armed but most places no. The reason? Its a liability problem. Theres a bigger problem here then just guards at schools. Its people everywhere need to step up and take responsibility


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Teachers can carry concealed weapons in tiny Texas town
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/20/teachers-can-carry-concealed-weapons-in-tiny-texas-town/


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## jasmine2501 (Oct 10, 2012)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Who is this "they" of whom you write?
> 
> Being emphatic, but entirely ungrammatical: _You_ is the "they."
> 
> If your local school needs a security guard, why not volunteer?


Well for one thing, I think the people guarding our kids should have combat experience, and unfortunately I was unable to serve. So, I don't think I would be effective in the type of situation that we know can happen. We used to have metal detectors and guards at schools around here, and I honestly don't remember if and when they stopped doing that, and I don't remember if those guys were armed or not.

Edit: The news just said that the high schools and middle schools do have guards. Columbine really shook us up around here, as well as all the gangs in the 80s and 90s.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Elsewhere (maybe even on another forum?) someone pointed out that we have armed security guards in some banks and at some malls, but for some reason schools aren't seen to need them.

I don't think that I'd need combat experience, to be an armed guard at a school. Maybe I'd need some extra training, particularly in preventing snatches and in unarmed combat, but that'd be all. The only operational training would be to learn to move toward the gunfire, and to make sure of what's behind your target before you fire a shot.
From what we've seen, these shooters are mostly cowards, taking out their frustrations on what they believe to be people unable to fight back. When anyone confronts them from a position of strength, the next thing you hear is the "BANG!" of the shooter killing himself. The recent Portland, OR, mall shooting is a case in point.

Maybe just being there, and being able to respond, would be enough of a deterrent.


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## swany66675 (Oct 25, 2012)

“Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?”

― Joseph Stalin

Of course our public schools are already implementing the later part as seen by test scores here.


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## prevost (Aug 29, 2012)

Yet another shooting, But a good shoot...14-year-old Phoenix boy shoots armed intruder while babysitting siblings : Federal Jack


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