# American made v. Italian made



## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Hello friends,

So, are the Berettas that are actually made in “Italy” are of superb quality v. ones here State side?

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

I own both American and Italian made guns. I've had all of these guns completely apart. With regards to machining, fit and finish I haven't noticed any appreciable difference. The top photo is Italian made. The middle photo from left to right, the first is made in Accokeek MD, the second in Gallatin TN, the third Accokeek MD. The last photo Gallatin TN.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

As I've previously stated, I've owned twenty nine Beretta 92 variants over the years. BEFORE Beretta USA moved from MD to TN, I preferred the USA made ones. Even a rep that used to be on the Beretta Forum years ago admitted that the return rate for Italian made ones was a little higher compared to the USA made ones. And, he stated the equipment at the USA plant was newer, and tolerances were a little tighter on USA made ones.

The only issues I've ever had with 2 Beretta 92 models were both Italian made specimens. The issues were rather minor, though.

The problem is that since Beretta USA moved to TN, their quality has been in the toilet. NOT all of their guns suck. But people have posted some really horrendous examples of the work coming out of the TN plant. Unfortunately, to a lesser degree, I've seen some posts of some Italian made guns with issues too. I'm not sure what is going on with Beretta these days. And, this is coming from a HUGE Beretta fan (I've owned 41 Berettas in total - various models).

I would not buy a 92 Beretta without examining it in person, personally. So, no online purchase, IMHO.

I've bought other Beretta models online in the past few years, but I'd never buy a 92 that way. Not with the way things have gone for the past few years. Just my 2 cents.

Which is Better? At the PRESENT time... If someone put a USA made one and an Italian made one in front of me. And, I was NOT allowed to examine both... And I had to make a choice - I'd probably go with the Italian made one. Once again, this is at the current time.

It seems Beretta USA started out with all new staff when they moved to TN, and it is unfortunate. They should have moved everyone they had in the MD plant. It's just really sad right now.


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## Higgy Baby (Aug 10, 2021)

Like Beretta......Have a 92 (M9), a Nickel 85, and a 3032. All good.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Shipwreck said:


> As I've previously stated, I've owned twenty nine Beretta 92 variants over the years. BEFORE Beretta USA moved from MD to TN, I preferred the USA made ones. Even a rep that used to be on the Beretta Forum years ago admitted that the return rate for Italian made ones was a little higher compared to the USA made ones. And, he stated the equipment at the USA plant was newer, and tolerances were a little tighter on USA made ones.
> 
> The only issues I've ever had with 2 Beretta 92 models were both Italian made specimens. The issues were rather minor, though.
> 
> ...


Ticks me off too!


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I own several Beretta's in varying calibers. All but one is made in Italy. I haven't seen any appreciable difference in shooting or quality of manufacture. 

But.....I ask myself this. If I were to buy a *Ferrari*, would I want one made in Italy........or the USA?


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

When I bought my first Beretta a used 92FS Inox pictured above that I still have. I wasn't even looking for one or even into Beretta's that much. But for under $500 I couldn't pass it up. After that I developed a fondness for them buying 4 more. I did notice that the finish on the slide of the M9A3 made in Gallatin TN is not that great and is more like paint and starting to show some wear after a limited amount of carry time and I mean limited. The frame appears to be anodized aluminum and shows absolutely no signs of wear. I did a little research and found that others have complained about the finish on the slide as well. Mechanically the gun is just as good as the others. Some people complained about burrs in the barrel crown and chatter marks in the rifling, mine had none of that. Indeed as Shipwreck has mentioned a lot of people more familiar with the brand have complained about quality control going downhill since the move to TN. 

My only complaint about the 92X Performance is that it was not made entirely out of stainless steel.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Arizona Desertman said:


> When I bought my first Beretta a used 92FS Inox pictured above that I still have. I wasn't even looking for one or even into Beretta's that much. But for under $500 I couldn't pass it up. After that I developed a fondness for them buying 4 more. I did notice that the finish on the slide of the M9A3 made in Gallatin TN is not that great and is more like paint and starting to show some wear after a limited amount of carry time and I mean limited. The frame appears to be anodized aluminum and shows absolutely no signs of wear. I did a little research and found that others have complained about the finish on the slide as well. Mechanically the gun is just as good as the others. Some people complained about burrs in the barrel crown and chatter marks in the rifling, mine had none of that. Indeed as Shipwreck has mentioned a lot of people more familiar with the brand have complained about quality control going downhill since the move to TN.
> 
> My only complaint about the 92X Performance is that it was not made entirely out of stainless steel.


I have an M9A3 too (used to own a second). If you buy one in FDE, the slide is done in cerakote, which is why it comes off so easily


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

All of my Beretta's are older ones. I don't own a newer one. Blue or SS only.


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## wirenut (Dec 16, 2015)

I don't own any Beretta's so I have no skin in the game, but what I have seen with other brands is the bottom line is profits for the shareholders making the customer their QC department.
When buying new do your due diligence before taking one home and hope you get a good one.
All brands have good warranty's, but for me the best warranty is the one I never have to use.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

My first Beretta (A 92FS) was an Italian made one. Bought in 1991. The quality back then was considered better on the Italian ones as the MD plant was still in kind of early stages and there had been some issues with US locking blocks having failures at a greater rate vs Italian ones, due to some differences the MD plant was implementing at that time. Since that correction. The MD plant guns were excellent.

I have a couple of US made Berettas and a few Italian made ones. None have given me any significant problems. In fact the only problem I’ve encountered on any of my Berettas was a burr on the lip of an extractor that caused feed failures right out of the box. problem was identified early and I fixed it myself in less than 5 minutes with a polishing stone and never had a problem since. That was an Italian Px4.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> I have an M9A3 too (used to own a second). If you buy one in FDE, the slide is done in cerakote, which is why it comes off so easily


I've had my Kimber RCP II cerakoted a few years ago and carried it a lot. Same for my CZ P01 Omega that comes from the factory with a Cerakote finish. I've carried these guns for months on end without showing any amount of appreciable wear. Cerakote shouldn't come off that easily. Unless of course there's something wrong with the formula that was used, it was applied incorrectly or the parts not prepped properly. 

I've included some before and after photo's of my M9A3. One just after I first bought it and the second was after carrying it for a minimal amount of time. Sure the wear is in a vulnerable spot on the M9A3 and it's bound to show wear there sooner or later. But what I'm talking about here is only after a few days of carrying it. When compared to the cerakote finish on my other guns the finish on the M9A3 appears to be extremely thin. I'm guessing that they probably didn't put enough coats on or the formula may be too thin? As someone who's painted cars before I can see how that could happen.

When I got my Kimber back from cerakoting. I had to remove the cerakote from both the frame and slide's rails. Otherwise the slide was too tight and wouldn't even fit on the frame.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Interesting... The corners of the slide on my M9A3 look exactly the same as yours, and I've never even holstered the gun. It was just laid flat on a wooden night stand.

I have seen some guns that are cerakoated look much worse. I think it is the prep work and how it is applied that makes all the difference


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> Interesting... The corners of the slide on my M9A3 look exactly the same as yours, and I've never even holstered the gun. It was just laid flat on a wooden night stand.
> 
> *I have seen some guns that are cerakoated look much worse.* I think it is the prep work and how it is applied that makes all the difference


Yeah, it all depends on who does the work whether it's from the factory or from a shop that specializes in it. The most durable is oven cured (baked on) now they have air dry for do it yourselfers but you'll need an air brush and of course compressor for both methods. Indeed preparation of the metal will make the difference between a shitty job and a professional one. I've used Dura Coat with some success for touch up jobs. I'm particular with the way my guns look that's why I like all stainless steel construction as there is no finish to wear off. Of course bead blasted or brushed stainless steel will develop shiny spots if carried often. That's one of the reasons why I like to polish mine out to a mirror like finish. If they get scratched or dinged I can polish them right out. However it's extremely time consuming to do it right.

A lot of times I'll just polish out the flats on the slide and controls leaving the bead blasted finish on the frame and slide for a nice contrast. From the factory it's more cost affective to just bead blast or give the guns a brushed stainless steel finish as they don't have to go the extra steps to get a mirror like finish. On carbon steel guns that are nicely blued those parts too have to be polished out to a mirror like finish before blueing the steel. That's probably why a lot of manufacturers no longer offer nicely blued guns anymore and opt for other finishes instead. On the bright side those modern day finishes are a lot more durable than a blued gun especially those DLC coatings. Of course some people like the look of a well worn gun and some manufacturers such as Sig have accommodated them with their Spectre series of which you pay a premium for that look.

I know that you and the regulars on this forum have seen these pictures before but I'm posting them again for others that may have not. On the Redhawks I left the frame with the factory brushed look while polishing out the rest of the gun to a mirror like finish. Originally they were entirely brushed stainless steel.









Originally the Detonics had a coarse bead blasted finish like on the dust cover. This took a considerable effort to achieve a mirror like finish.









By contrast the Kahr had a real nice fine bead blasted finish like on the frame and took little effort to polish out the slide and controls to a mirror like finish.









My Wilsons started showing wear along the sharp points on the slides so I just polished out the flats.









On my Sig P365 I polished the flats and around the front of the slide where it was starting to show signs of wear.









The Zaffiri Precision slides came with a nice fine bead blasted finish. I only polished out the flats for a nice contrast.


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

I own one 92fs made in accokeek MD I don’t have one bad thing to say about it


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

This one is still NIB. I bought it back in the early 90's.

Italian as can be.


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## hike1272.mail (Nov 19, 2021)

lz33w7 said:


> So, are the Berettas that are actually made in “Italy” are of superb quality v. ones here State side?


Yes, IMHO
I have had both and I prefer the Italian-made versions of the same model.
I have shot 1,000s and 1,000s through USA-made and Italian-made Berettas. When it came time to cull my collection/inventory, I sold the USA-made pistols and kept the Italiam-made ones.

Also, several, now vintage, models are only Italian-made firearms. Such as the 70 series.

The USA-made models continue to bring out new features but the main reason that Beretta has USA manufacturing is that it was a condition of the US Military contract requirements and now it is more difficult, because of Federal Government laws and ATF Laws to bring foreign firearms into the USA.
The first USA factory was in Maryland. Maryland demanded that Beretta stopped manufacturing items that Maryland deemed "too dangerous" for USA citizens to have. Beretta moved to Tennessee where there are no such restrictions. If I purchase a USA-made Beretta firearm, I will only buy a Gallatin, TN manufactured firearm.
IMHO


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

I think all the px4 are made in Italy


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Javbike said:


> I think all the px4 are made in Italy


Yes. Several of their guns are only made in Italy. The 80 series are all Italian made. All the APX's I have seen are Italian made. The CX4s are all Italian made.


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## mur.cap (7 mo ago)

Arizona Desertman said:


> I own both American and Italian made guns. I've had all of these guns completely apart. With regards to machining, fit and finish I haven't noticed any appreciable difference. The top photo is Italian made. The middle photo from left to right, the first is made in Accokeek MD, the second in Gallatin TN, the third Accokeek MD. The last photo Gallatin TN.
> 
> View attachment 22656
> 
> ...


Be


Shipwreck said:


> Yes. Several of their guns are only made in Italy. The 80 series are all Italian made. All the APX's I have seen are Italian made. The CX4s are all Italian made.


Better to purchase a home in Gallatin, TN then the Beretta apparently.
My Nissan was manufactured in TN...so far got it 12 years.


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

Shipwreck said:


> Yes. Several of their guns are only made in Italy. The 80 series are all Italian made. All the APX's I have seen are Italian made. The CX4s are all Italian made.


Hey shipwreck first gun purchase in 2023 for me px4 or the Bersa firestorm what would you get


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Javbike said:


> Hey shipwreck first gun purchase in 2023 for me px4 or the Bersa firestorm what would you get


I would buy the PX4 between those two, hands down. I have owned 4 PX4s over the years, and I have 1 PX4 Compact right now.


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

Shipwreck said:


> I would buy the PX4 between those two, hands down. I have owned 4 PX4s over the years, and I have 1 PX4 Compact right now.


Thanks it was what I was thinking January my birthday present to myself ha ha and I have two extra clips for the px4 I will be ready


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Javbike said:


> Thanks it was what I was thinking January my birthday present to myself ha ha and I have two extra clips for the px4 I will be ready


What caliber are you getting? 9mm?


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

Shipwreck said:


> What caliber are you getting? 9mm?


Yes 9mm then I will have two 9mm in the rotation


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Javbike said:


> Yes 9mm then I will have two 9mm in the rotation


I have owned three in 9mm, and one in 40. The ONLY 40 I have ever owned was that PX4. The rotating barrel does a great job on recoil.


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## Javbike (Oct 21, 2021)

Shipwreck said:


> I have owned three in 9mm, and one in 40. The ONLY 40 I have ever owned was that PX4. The rotating barrel does a great job on recoil.


I have a forty in a smith mp and the 9 I hsve is a beretta older USA made model 92fs


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm kind of curious! I've been contemplating thinning out my firearms collection little by little. What do you all think my Italian Beretta SS 92FS might be worth to a private buyer? It's the one pictured in post # 16.

I know any gun shop would love to have it, but I'm not in the mood to be extremely low-balled.

Anyways, any thoughts as to a fair & reasonable price?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

paratrooper said:


> I'm kind of curious! I've been contemplating thinning out my firearms collection little by little. What do you all think my Italian Beretta SS 92FS might be worth to a private buyer? It's the one pictured in post # 16.
> 
> I know any gun shop would love to have it, but I'm not in the mood to be extremely low-balled.
> 
> Anyways, any thoughts as to a fair & reasonable price?


I'd go ask at the Beretta Forum ( Beretta Forum - Powered by vBulletin ). There was talk of an all stainless with silver parts going for a pretty good price recently, if I remember right. That would be the best place to put it up for sale too.

I have never been into stainless (INOX) 92 models, personally. I owned ONE in the mid 1990s, and that was all. I always preferred them in black. So, I can't offer a suggestion, since I've not paid much attention to the Inox ones.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Shipwreck said:


> I'd go ask at the Beretta Forum ( Beretta Forum - Powered by vBulletin ). There was talk of an all stainless with silver parts going for a pretty good price recently, if I remember right. hat would be the best place to put it up for sale too.
> 
> I have never been into stainless (INOX) 92 models, personally. I owned ONE in the mid 1990s, and that was all. I always preferred them in black. So, I can't offer a suggestion, since I've not paid much attention to the Inox ones.


Looks as if I'm not a member over there. Or, I forgot my user name / password.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I did check on GB. They had one, a used one with one mag. $1695.00.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> Looks as if I'm not a member over there. Or, I forgot my user name / password.


I did go ahead and create an account.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

paratrooper said:


> I did go ahead and create an account.


Cool


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## mur.cap (7 mo ago)

Beretta SS 92FS is listing on Gunbroker.com for 769.00


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

mur.cap said:


> Beretta SS 92FS is listing on Gunbroker.com for 769.00


Yea, but that is with black controls. He claims his has the older, all silver colored controls. Those are worth more to collectors.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I still prefer the old, USA made ones from Maryland... Prior to the move to TN. The quality was much better. NEVER had an issue with any of those MD made Berettas. 

I will say that it is interesting... I suppose that the same thing can happen with any mass produced item... I've owned 29 Beretta 92 variants. I will say that out of all of them, 2 were just a little more accurate than the other 27. Like, they had that little extra laser beam accuracy. You'd think they would be all EXACTLY the same, but they are not.

I still have one of those two... My Maryland made M9A3 is one of those guns. They only made one batch of M9A3s in MD before they packed up and moved. 

I've also gotten something similar on other guns. Whenever I buy two of the EXACT same guns... For some weird reason, I always shoot one of the two a little more accurately than the other. And, because of that, I always end up selling the 2nd one, and using that money to buy another gun I want at that particular time. It's actually kind of annoying


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

*Here it is again, in all of it's glory. *


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