# Need Help



## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Ok hope this doesn't turn out long.

For a couple of years I have been trying to get my wife to get her CCW license. She will be interested one day and then no tthe next day. One of her biggest thing was she didn't want to take the class with a bunch of people she doesn't know. Today she was taking a bath and I was in the living room. She yells for me to come to the bathroom. I walk in and she says "Honey, I think I am willing to take that CCW class now. I found someone to go with me". First off I knew the woman that she was talking about. So I sat in the bathroom talked to her for awhile. Told her what the class I took was like. I tol dher I still had the booklet they give you along with the test and the answers. I also reassured her that I wasn't worried about her falling the shooting part and I would work with her some more as far as pulling it out of a holster and doing the presentation stuff for it.

Here is where I need the help. Her friend the lady she works with (as far to my wife's knowledge has never shot a gun). I don't know how temid she will be. I have her setup as of now with a 9mm medium sized glock (smallest I can find from the people I know...well a .22 derringer and that won't be good on her having to reload). Anyway, my wife told me that her friend Candice said she just wants a handgun $300-$400 or less. I know prices are different other places. But the first 3 that came to mind was a S&W Sigma, Ruger LCP, Ruger LCR. I am not a Kel-Tec fan so I am having a hard time recommending it. Are there any others that I might be forgetting. I am taking them this weekend to a couple of gun stores so she can look and see what she thinks feels good then the next fun part is trying to find one she can shoot.

I appreciate any recommendations as I drew a blank. I am a firm believer you get what you pay for. So while this is being checked into I have the very fun task of being her friend's new teacher as I am the ONLY person that lady knows with gun experience. Thanks to the recommendations from my wife, my friend's fiancee, and a couple others. So wish me luck. Starting this weekend is gun safety and gun window shopping. At least the window shopping will be fun.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

I have also talked to my wife about CCW. She would only want to take it, to carry a taser....when I mentioned that you have to let someone get close, to use it, she said " good point " Anyhow, would a revolver be better? I know that my wife cannot rack the slide on any of my guns. I carry a Bodyguard, and it seems to eat everything it's fed..most of the women (3) that were in my class(ccw) had revolvers, mostly .38. Personally, I like the Ruger's. If they don't have trouble racking slides, I like the Bodyguards, and the Rugers...revolver or semi-auto....


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## adjohns3 (May 21, 2010)

I think you hit several that would be my first choices...i.e. Ruger LCP (try new LaserLite for an extra incentive my wife loves it); LCP (.38 with Crimson Trace).
Bersa is another "value" I would consider...check out their CC model (it's a .380) but a nice shooter. I have several Bersa guns, 9mm sub compact, and have found them to be what I think is among the best VALUES in the gun market.

Good luck and safe shooting!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

The easiest gun on which to learn is a full-size, full-weight, all-steel gun. The size and weight absorb recoil, and make the learning experience easier.
While I prefer the beginner to use the .45 ACP cartridge because its recoil is more of a "push" than a "jab," a beginner could use the 9mm, which recoils somewhat more sharply, if that's all there is.
A small-handed woman may be attracted to a small handgun, on which to learn. This is a mistake. Small, lightweight guns are the hardest to learn to shoot, and their recoil feels sharp and unpleasant. (My tiny wisp of a wife started out with a 1911 in .45 ACP, and found it comfortable and easy.)

The least expensive pistol that's appropriate for a beginner is a _used_ pistol. That's the only way to keep the price down to between $300.00 and $400.00, and still receive effectively shootable quality.
When the beginner has gained some experience, she will be capable of making her own choice of the gun with which she will proceed.


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## Holly (Oct 15, 2011)

Though I _mostly_ agree with Steve on starting with a full-size, full-weight, all-steel gun (I did some of my learning with my husband's Colt 1911), I am in love with my Ruger SR9c. I would highly recommend it to anyone, but particularly to women.

Ruger® SR9c™ Compact Centerfire Pistol Models

Keep in mind that it comes with an extended magazine, which makes it the same size as a full-size SR9, with 17 rounds.


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## tom1911sigfreak (Dec 10, 2011)

Out of all the nice guns i've put in my wifes hands she likes the revolvers the best. Now I have no luck in getting her to shoot! Luckly my 13 year old stepdaughter want to start shooting.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

First off, I am still trying to figure out why this got move as I was asking about the guns that are good quality but runa cheaper cost. But oh well.

Second, thanks for the help guys.

Now the long part.

It didn't turn out so good. We all went out to lunch. The lady was acting alot of questions, and the end result she was seriously overthinking things. So before we went to the gun store we stopped by our house so I could show her my full sized M&P. I took it apart showed and told her about the slide and the barrel. And also showed her the magazine. Then I spent 30 mins of handgun safety. The whole keeping your finger off the trigger was lost on her. She was struggling to pull the slide back. Anytime she tried to pull the slide back she would try to get a better grip on her finger would wrap around the trigger. Her next complaint was how heavy it was without the bullets. So I locked the slide back and put a full magazine in. She was complainging that there was no way she could shoot it much less would want to carry something that heavy.

To cut the story semi short. We went to the gun store. She wanted to look at the Ruger LC9. She liked the feel but couldn't pull the slide back. so we looked at a couple of others and she couldn't pull the slide back on any gun. Glcok, S&W, Sig, Beretta. So I suggested a revolver. No racking the slide, no worrying about failure to ejects or feeds. She liked the idea. I went over sizes of ammo. I told her that the bigger and heavier the gun the more it would help with recoil and stuff. I tried to get her to rent 2 of the guns she liked while we were there but she didn't want to shoot.

Now on a side note. Minus the way the grip felt my wife loved the Ruger LC9. She asked how bad the recoil was and stuff. So I bought 100 rounds of 180gr .40. We thenwent and took my full sized M&P over to my cousin's house I put a 15 rounds of itas she said she wanted to see how the recoil was. She Then proceeded to put about 60 rounds by herself. After she said her hand was alittle sore. But she liked the feel. Now I think I might have talked her into getting a 9mm M&Pc. On a up note she was able to answer alot of her friend's questions without my help. I think it is going to take her friend a very long time, however, my wife has listened to me and remembered. I was very proud and very impressed.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Brevard13*;
Some women, my wife included, have lots of trouble with semi-auto slides.
There's a way to teach them to do it, and it works almost always. It also helps to correct that finger-on-the-trigger reflex.

Instead of pulling back with the offside hand against a locked strong-side hand, try the reverse.
Have the woman grab the slide in as strong a grip as her offside hand can manage, and brace her whole offside arm rigidly and tightly against her body.
Then have her push forward with her strong-side hand, in an abrupt and fiercely strong shove.

Cathy Jackson explains it best at: http://www.corneredcat.com/Rack_the_Slide/


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

i use the "pull-push" method always, since i am ambidextrous the strong hand, weak hand thing just confused me, so i always push on the grip while i pull back on the slide.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> *Brevard13*;
> Some women, my wife included, have lots of trouble with semi-auto slides.
> There's a way to teach them to do it, and it works almost always. It also helps to correct that finger-on-the-trigger reflex.
> 
> ...


She tried both ways and couldn't do it on my M&P. She did manage to get it back further using her keeping her strong hand on the grip. She did do the push and pull (which is cool you said that because since I have never had problems I had never thought about it), but watching her I told her to do it. No matter which way she tried though her index finger always went to the trigger. I am guessing her muscle memory for grabbing to hold. It will just take some work as she was telling me about shooting a rifle that you had to pump when she went quail hunting when she was younger.

As far as slides go however. My wife struggled with it but managed. Of course we went to the gun store and she was checking out a Ruger LCP .380 that another woman was looking at. The woman couldn't budge it, her friend couldn't budge it. My wife picked it up racked it back about 9 or 10 times. Impressed some people. My wife is torn right now between the Ruger LC9 and the M&P .9mm. I am hoping she chooses the M&P (more for me than her). But as long as she is happy. She has about 2 and a half weeks to decide since that will be one of her birthday presents.



TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> i use the "pull-push" method always, since i am ambidextrous the strong hand, weak hand thing just confused me, so i always push on the grip while i pull back on the slide.


I am going to work with my wife's friend some more and see if we can't figure out a way to get it to rack. She said her hand was hurting and had a brace on earlier then had taken it off. I had forgot or I wouldn't have tried to get her to do it.

On a side note I copied my CCW handbook they give us when we took the class so they could study. My wife was talking to her and her friend said she was leaning more towards a revolver which I think is good because then she doesn't have to worry about failure to fire, failure to feed, failure to eject and stuff like that.


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

I owned two S&W Sigmas and they were solid and reliable, but with the stiff trigger they are not the best for someone just learning. The M&Pc has options and would be a good choice for your wife. If there is time and an opportunity you might try a Sig P250sc in 9mm as the slide seems much easier to pull back and the trigger is smooth, small enough for concealed carry and I think will be much better on recoil than the Rugers.....JJ


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Sounds like revolver, revolver, revolver....why make life more difficult???????


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## robertcseg (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't know about the CWP classes in NC are ,but in SC in the classes I have attended,CWP. and Basic Defensive Handgun. The no. of women and the no. of men were equal. I thought the women did as well or better than the men. For the most part the ladies were more comfortable wth revolvers


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Brevard13 said:


> She tried both ways and couldn't do it on my M&P. She did manage to get it back further using her keeping her strong hand on the grip. She did do the push and pull (which is cool you said that because since I have never had problems I had never thought about it), but watching her I told her to do it. No matter which way she tried though her index finger always went to the trigger. I am guessing her muscle memory for grabbing to hold. It will just take some work as she was telling me about shooting a rifle that you had to pump when she went quail hunting when she was younger.
> 
> As far as slides go however. My wife struggled with it but managed. Of course we went to the gun store and she was checking out a Ruger LCP .380 that another woman was looking at. The woman couldn't budge it, her friend couldn't budge it. My wife picked it up racked it back about 9 or 10 times. Impressed some people. My wife is torn right now between the Ruger LC9 and the M&P .9mm. I am hoping she chooses the M&P (more for me than her). But as long as she is happy. She has about 2 and a half weeks to decide since that will be one of her birthday presents.
> 
> ...


My wife worked sales in a gun store. Would you like to know how many husbands bought their wives LCPs or P3ATs and the wives ended up hating them once they shot them? LOTS.

All gun sales are final, maybe if you are on really good terms with your dealer you won't get raped on trying to return the gun.



Steve M1911A1 said:


> The easiest gun on which to learn is a full-size, full-weight, all-steel gun. The size and weight absorb recoil, and make the learning experience easier.
> While I prefer the beginner to use the .45 ACP cartridge because its recoil is more of a "push" than a "jab," a beginner could use the 9mm, which recoils somewhat more sharply, if that's all there is.
> *A small-handed woman may be attracted to a small handgun, on which to learn. This is a mistake. Small, lightweight guns are the hardest to learn to shoot, and their recoil feels sharp and unpleasant. *(My tiny wisp of a wife started out with a 1911 in .45 ACP, and found it comfortable and easy.)
> 
> ...


LISTEN TO STEVE!

Smaller guns have more felt recoil, are typically louder, have a lesser sight radius and typically, crappy triggers.

Mid-size steel 9mms do well, but bigger is better in terms of gun size vs. new shooters.

My wife is tiny, and can rack the slide on some heavy guns.






It may take some time, but if she can do it anyone can.

The M&P is a good starter gun, and was typically what the wife suggested to female patrons looking for their fist gun. While a heavy gun is better for learning, economically it makes sense for one gun that will pull double duty well enough.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

chessail77 said:


> I owned two S&W Sigmas and they were solid and reliable, but with the stiff trigger they are not the best for someone just learning. The M&Pc has options and would be a good choice for your wife. If there is time and an opportunity you might try a Sig P250sc in 9mm as the slide seems much easier to pull back and the trigger is smooth, small enough for concealed carry and I think will be much better on recoil than the Rugers.....JJ


Yeah, I think I pretty much elminated the Sigma. I would love to get it just to shoot but with the trigger pull like it is I don't think she would practice enough with it. She likes the M&P which since I am a huge fan and have 2 already (both .40s) I think because she has shot them she likes the feel and stuff. She was very fond of the Ruger LC9. I know the gun store has a range and you can rent a few guns they have there. They do have a Ruger LCP I do believe it is the .380 though. Personally I think because the M&P will be slightly bigger that it will handle the .9mm better and she will like it more.



berettabone said:


> Sounds like revolver, revolver, revolver....why make life more difficult???????


Her friend/co-worker is kind of weird. She was wanting to listen to a woman who had just got into shooting over me. The woman walked up to her tell her how the Kel-Tec .380 was the best gun ever and that she had no problems shooting the and I quote "shadow man target" (I am assuming the silohuette target) at 5-8ft without missing. She also went on to tell her that her husband wanted her to get a bigger caliber like a 9mm. And then the last thing I heard before I walked off laughing "if I can hit the shadow man in the chest 5 times at 6ft without missing then I can handle any guy that comes after me trying to mug or kill me". I told her to ignore the woman and that a .380 with the right round isn't bad. but she still has to be able to work the slide and stuff. When she picked up the Ruger LCR and pushed the button and popped the cylinder out and didn't have any problems she really liked that. Plus the odds of her ever having to use more than 5 rounds much less shoot anyone is very slim to none.



robertcseg said:


> I don't know about the CWP classes in NC are ,but in SC in the classes I have attended,CWP. and Basic Defensive Handgun. The no. of women and the no. of men were equal. I thought the women did as well or better than the men. For the most part the ladies were more comfortable wth revolvers


I think now it is starting to be more women than men. I know around here there were a ton of men taking it. When I took mine out of 50 there was only about 10 women. It was amazing how many people were so ignorant of handgun safety. Thank God my wife actually picked it up really, really quickly. Not only that it was amazing at how many people there were just terrible shots. Most running some form of target .22 pistols. Mostly the Ruger. But some missed the silohuette target at 1 and 3 yards. I was told I was stupid for using a .40 but I had the tightest pattern out of everyone. Of course I had already put 1200 round through that Ruger before ever taking the class. So even though it was a .40 I did good.

I have a friend going to take it also. As long as she knows someone she will be fine. I don't know why it matters as you aren't really talking to people during the class part anyway.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

When I took my CCW class, out of 25 people, there were 3 women......all had revolvers, all were .38cal..........for the most part, they shot them pretty well....the shoots were timed, so if they would have had to load a magazine, which you had to do, they would have never made it...not to say it can't be done, because with practice, they could, but it seems that most have a problem with the slide and loading a mag, they just don't have the finger or wrist strength....if they would have used my 84fs, they wouldn't have had a chance, especially with the slide, being one of the stiffest I've felt, and the mag springs, which are also strong, but that's what I like about that particular gun....still sounds like she/they should try a revolver...the women used speed loaders, takes no strength, fast, no mis feeds, no jams, pretty safe....you can always see when they are loaded....just my 2 cents....also, that's why I never use indoor ranges, and go to a gun club to shoot...you're out in the air, you have better light, and you can keep your eye on everyone...I have seen alot of "muzzling" in my day, and I will either report it, or leave....


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

For what it is worth the range her usually is for people who shoot regularly and the inexperienced people usually have someone there who knows what they are doing to help them out. Not once have I ever felt like my safety was at risk because of the other shooters. 

Now as far as my wife goes I am not stupid. She has been practicing with my M&P so that is what she will shoot. Plus I have 6 15 round magazines that I will already have loaded up. All she will have to do is release the slide and go. That is what I did when I got my CCW. I had extra magazines for my Ruger. So i loaded them all up and unlike the majority that had to reload magazines I just reholster and wait.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

A stainless steel S & W J-frame with a 3" or 4" barrel is pretty easy to carry and pretty easy to control (with .38s). A 1.875" barrel will conceal easier but is harder to control and aim.

Ruger makes the same sizes but heavier and cheaper (SP101).


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Yeah I am not too sure that her friend is going to get one. I might be wrong, but I doubt it. She is mainly wanting it for her house then at that point what does it matter is it is a full sized handgun. I tried to tell her that she needed to find a man that could shoot and take care of her then she wouldn't have to worry about it.

As far as my wife goes. We went to the gun store about an hour after I got off work. We started at one counter were the .380's were and first thing out of her mouth was "I want to see the M&P". So we walked down and she was saying how she thought the compact was bigger. She racked the slide rather easily. She did struggle with the slide release, but it wasn't bad just somehting she will have to get use to. It already had the small backstrap in so she said that she really, really liked it. We went down and she looked at the Ruger SR9. She liked it but said the M&P felt better. Then she felt the LC9. She liked the size, but then with the smaller amount of ammo and the grip not being real comfortable she decided against it. 

Well we walked to the range and looked at the guns they had for rent. The closest thing to the LC9 they had was a Kahr. And the only compact M&P they had was a .40. We were talking and she decided to rent the .40c just to try it (makes me mad because my M&P .40c is at my uncles house an hour down the road and she could have just shot it). She bought a box of 50 rounds of 165 grain FMJ Blazers, the target they use for the CCW class. Guy cut us a deal on the range fee, cut her a deal on the ammo, and let us rent the safety glasses for free. One thing I have to do is get better ear protection. i usually just wear normal ear plugs because we shoot outside. In the range wiht other people shooting...not very cool. I think that kind of bothered her alittle bit.

She tried loading up the magazine but was having a hard time, so being that we are charged every 30 mins I loaded the mags for her. She loaded the mag in the gun, racked the slide and shot. She said she was a alittle bit nervous. She actually did very well considering it was only her 3rd time shooting a pistol. not ot mention a .40 compact which really isn't easy to shoot. She didn't like the snappy recoil and was saying her hand was beginning to get tired and hurt but after 38 rounds with semi weak hands I can see why. At 25ft she was pretty much on the center of the target. She had a couple that pulled bad to the left. Even aimed for the head a couple of times. She never got out of the silohuette though. I was proud. Waiting to pay and I asked her what she thought. She smiled real big and said "the 9mm won't be as bad as the .40 will it?", I told her no and she said I want a M&P. So I dropped a down payment on the M&P 9mm for her birthday present. She was so happy today.

Only thing that made me mad was when I told her to fix her stance so she wsan't getting rocked back and bad off balance, an older guy next to me told me I was teaching her wrong and that a stance wouldn't help her shoot. I told him thank you for the advice, and you could clearly see it was helping her shoot. The old prick called me a smart ass and told me I needed to learn how ot shoot. I wasn't even shooting she was. I shook my head and ignored him. Poor guy was such a bad shot my wife even started laughing. other than that it was a great morning. Minus the fact i didn't get any sleep and still had to go to work at midnight.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Smith & Wesson Model 60 Lady Smith® Revolver. While it may be a little over her price range, this in my opinion would be the best option for a new shooter wanting a self defense handgun.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

I forgot about that. Now to find a place locally that has one she can look at


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

I am thinking she has made a wise choice and the decision was hers and you might just want to leave it as is .......JJ


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## Holly (Oct 15, 2011)

chessail77 said:


> I am thinking she has made a wise choice and the decision was hers and you might just want to leave it as is .......JJ


:smt038


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

chessail77 said:


> I am thinking she has made a wise choice and the decision was hers and you might just want to leave it as is .......JJ


I was talking about my wife's friend checking out the S&W revolver. My wife has picked her's out that and the fact that she doesn't like revolvers.


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