# Rent before you buy?



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I have noticed that the advice to new shooters is always to go rent guns and shoot everything till you find the one that just fits you perfectly. Fine advice, if you have access to rental guns, and can afford to piss off a couple hundred bucks before you buy anything, but not really necessary, in my opinion. Of course, I'm wrong, occasionally. :biglaugh:

My thinking is that a person who is new to guns should just learn to shoot, period. Sight picture, proper grip, and trigger pull, with a little stance work thrown in, and then refine it until you gain some consistency. Start with a BB gun or a .45 pistol, or whatever else is available, and just practice until you reach the highest level of proficiency that you can afford, money-wise and time-wise.

So, I usually suggest to the person seeking a self-protection weapon that they just go buy a reasonably priced semi-auto, or revolver, with a good reputation, in 9mm or .38 Special, and shoot the heck out of it. Spend all those rental fees on something you can take home and stick in your underwear drawer, so you can practice dry fire, too.

I have learned, over the years, that a gun does not have to fit your hand, nor does the trigger have to be sweet, to be able to hit where you aim. My thinking is that you should not fret over perfection until your skill level merits it...and until you find out whether you are going to follow through with all the time and effort it is going to take to become even moderately proficient. Learn to shoot whatever you happen to pick up...it isn't rocket science...it's just a matter of some very basic fundamentals and lots of practice.

What are your thoughts?


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

If you do not rent a gun find a buddy who has a few and ask him or her f you can try a couple. It is great advice to practice and become proficient. If you buy a gun with out holding it ever or even shooting it you could very much be in for a giant dissapointment. 

If money is the issue and rental fees are a problem then I guess you need to save a bit. I think that buying a resonably orice weapon is a good idea but if you have the opportunity to see how one feels when you shoot it before you own it can only be a good thing. If I knew anyone who wanted to buy a little gun made in Florida I would make them shoot one before they bought it so they understood the degree of discomfort that gun would cause them. Sure its only 250 bucks but it hurts to shoot.

You must learn the fundimentals and you must practice.....if the grip is to thick or too thin or too short or angled weird for you hand, if the trigger is gritty or has too long a pull, learning the fundmentals is not really going to happen. If you learn to shoot a gun that doesn't fit your hand because you have practiced with it you are not learning good habits you are imbeeding bad habits to muscle memory. I am not a fan of bad practice.

Practice does not make perfect....perfect practice makes perfect.

Those are my thoughts we agre on some points and on others we have small differances. Get the best gun you can afford. Make sure it fits you, learn the fundimentals of shooting and practice with your gun. Shooting is a fun thing enjoy it!!!!

RCG


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

recoilguy said:


> ...If I knew anyone who wanted to buy a little gun made in Florida I would make them shoot one before they bought it so they understood the degree of discomfort that gun would cause them. Sure its only 250 bucks but it hurts to shoot.


Well, yeah...don't buy a mouse gun to learn to shoot with...I didn't mean to just buy _anything_.

But, the bottom line is sight picture, and your ability to maintain it throughout the trigger pull. If you can, you hit your target, period. I'm just saying that you can learn to shoot with any decent full sized gun, and that you can also use most of them for self defense, too, until you become experienced enough to know what you really need.

Most of us old farts learned to shoot with our Dad's or Grandpa's guns, way before we were big enough to fit them properly. We had terrible form, until we got guns of our own that fit us properly, but we could still keep the sights on the target while pulling the trigger, and that is the major hurdle to be cleared, when learning to shoot. Everything else can be refined and improved, with a little help and a lot of practice.

It took me one range session and about fifty rounds of ammo to correct my handgun form from a very bad one-handed grip to a combat grip that made my shooting much more consistent. In the years since that, I have taught it to others who immediately started shooting better, because of it.

I'm just saying that the best way to learn to shoot is to just buy a gun and start shooting. If you like shooting, you will swap around or keep buying more guns, till you get the 'right one.' I have bought the perfect gun, at least a dozen times...and there is always one out there that is perfecter. :mrgreen:


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Bisley said:


> I have noticed that the advice to new shooters is always to go rent guns and shoot everything till you find the one that just fits you perfectly. Fine advice, if you have access to rental guns, and can afford to piss off a couple hundred bucks before you buy anything, but not really necessary, in my opinion. Of course, I'm wrong, occasionally. :biglaugh:


One need not spend that much... Heck, it's just $5 to rent a gun at my local range - and they have a ton of choices. The neg is that you have to buy THEIR ammo - but it's only about $3 more than the places I usually buy from...

I am not a new shooter - but I have rented many guns over the years to see if I liked something. I've bought guns because of my rental experiences (P99, HK P2000) and passed up guns because of my rental experiences M&P 9 and M&P 45).

However - it's too easy to buy a gun that you don't like later - and wish you didn't buy it. While renting 10+ guns might be cost prohibitive - I think it's worth renting up to 3 or 4 - maybe their list of the top choices they would want to buy... Then whittle it down from there...

Not every gun that feels great in the hand while standing in the gunstore comes out feeling great after ya put some rounds thru it...


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

It's a great idea and what I prefer but not necessary IMO, and while one size may not fit all, there is a reason why a particular handgun is produced in mass quantities.

I have rented several handguns in various calibers over the years and have yet to come across one that I didn’t want to buy after. I have also purchased once without renting first and have no regrets though it is a caliber I was already familiar with.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I always say basic pistol course first, second try out as many as possible. I could have saved many dollars if I could have tried out some of the ones I bought and didn't like, or was not comfortable to shoot or flat out hurt because I could not get a good grip. Shooting a handgun is the best way to decide if it is truely for you.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

unpecador said:


> I have rented several handguns in various calibers over the years and have yet to come across one that I didn't want to buy after. I have also purchased once without renting first and have no regrets though it is a caliber I was already familiar with.


See, I rented two different M&Ps (2 different calibers) - and I HATED the trigger. I am so glad I didn't buy one...

I also discovered my previous fav gun - the P99. I rented it 3 times... The first time, i did not like it. I decided to give it another chance several months later - and I was hooked (this is in 2005).


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Shipwreck said:


> One need not spend that much... Heck, it's just $5 to rent a gun at my local range - and they have a ton of choices. The neg is that you have to buy THEIR ammo - but it's only about $3 more than the places I usually buy from...


It costs a good deal more than that, some places. The only time I have ever rented, it cost me $8 per gun and the cheap practice ammo was nearly double the Walmart price. Try three guns in different calibers, and you've spent about a hundred bucks.

I'm not saying it is a bad plan to rent. Some people may be better off to ease into shooting that way. I'm just saying that most new handgun shooters will not shoot well enough to be able to distinguish between the 'good' and the 'bad.' They nearly always think the sights are off on whatever they shoot, until someone proves otherwise, and helps them correct their usually flawed grip and trigger pull.

I think if a person is committed to learning to shoot, they will be just as well off to research the different guns, learn what questions to ask, and get recommendations from experienced shooters...then just go ahead and buy something and start shooting it.


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## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

new shooters should address their needs first. why do you want a gun?
target shooting, defence, heart set on "this kind" etc? 

then try some grips on for size, feel the heft, look down the sight plane. ask some questions. if the shop aint helpful go to the next one. 

never just go out and plop a lot of cash down on something you know nothing about. 

handguns are extremely personal. there's no pat answer. one needs to address his or her needs first then try and make an educated choice by trying some on for size. if they can fire some first more's the better, be it rented or borrowed. 

not everyone wants to go up in caliber/recoil so they might start small and stay there. 

there's a million choices and each one is uniquely different. slow down, take some time. you'll shoot much better with a gun you want, like, need and are proud to own. 

if there's an "urgency to get a gun", buy a 12ga pump w/ interchangable barrels and relax- cuz now you've pretty much got everything covered.


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Renting guns, borrowing friends guns, and generally obsessing with which gun to buy and in which caliber goes back to the idea that people spend too much time worrying about hardware and too little time upgrading their software through education, training and practice. Hardware purchases absolutely require thoughtful consideration, however I agree it is overemphasized sometimes.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

IMHO buying a gun without having fired one like it is like buying a car without driving one like it. It's not that you can't do okay by basing the decision on research, but it's easy to make an expensive mistake.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Couch Potato said:


> IMHO buying a gun without having fired one like it is like buying a car without driving one like it. It's not that you can't do okay by basing the decision on research, but it's easy to make an expensive mistake.


I agree 100% - and I still think that when someone is trying to decide, they should at least rent a few guns.

I have rented 2 and used the same box of ammo I got from the range with the rental - I knew after 1 mag I didn't like the M&P


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

Couch Potato said:


> IMHO buying a gun without having fired one like it is like buying a car without driving one like it. It's not that you can't do okay by basing the decision on research, but it's easy to make an expensive mistake.


To carry on with Bisley's analogy, though, most of us didn't learn to drive by carefully researching and testing a wide range of different vehicles by respected manufacturers. We took whatever clunker our parents or us could scrape enough together to afford and learned on that, then moved on to a car more suited to our driving style after learning the basics.

Both views have merit IMO. Some of only have the luxury of affording one option. And screw all you guys who learned to drive on a classic 'Stang. :mrgreen:

KG


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Couch Potato said:


> IMHO buying a gun without having fired one like it is like buying a car without driving one like it. It's not that you can't do okay by basing the decision on research, but it's easy to make an expensive mistake.


Maybe I'm just having trouble with the 'one perfect gun' concept. I can pretty much pick up any gun and hit a target with it, after a few test shots, because I learned to adapt what moderate skills I do have to whatever I pick up.

It was the same with learning to drive a car. I started out with an old clunker with a standard shift, but when I eventually progressed into one with automatic transmission, power steering and brakes, and air conditioning, I didn't have to re-learn to drive all over again...I just spent an hour adjusting to the differences.

Shooting is just another hand/eye coordination skill, and becoming a good enough marksman to hit large targets, up close, is not terribly difficult...and this is as far as most new gun buyers ever take it, so they are just as well off with a Sigma as they would have been with a Wilson Combat.

The ones who genuinely love shooting will continue the 'journey' and end up spending a lot of money on guns and ammo, anyway.


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## Bucky04 (Oct 4, 2010)

*where to rent*

Does anyone know where to rent some handguns in northern Wisconsin?


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

I don't subscribe to the "one perfect gun" idea either, but I do subscribe to the "this beautiful gun sux" idea. Nobody in their right mind wants just one gun, but neither do they want a gun that they don't enjoy shooting.

Just as you learned to drive on the clunker bought by someone else, it is best to learn to shoot with someone else's gun. Learn what you like before spending your money.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Couch Potato said:


> I don't subscribe to the "one perfect gun" idea either, but I do subscribe to the "this beautiful gun sux" idea. Nobody in their right mind wants just one gun, but neither do they want a gun that they don't enjoy shooting.
> 
> Just as you learned to drive on the clunker bought by someone else, it is best to learn to shoot with someone else's gun. Learn what you like before spending your money.


Nicely played........

RCG


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Couch Potato said:


> Just as you learned to drive on the clunker bought by someone else, it is best to learn to shoot with someone else's gun. Learn what you like before spending your money.


You are ignoring the general point I've made and are just changing it to the subject you want to argue about.

I have not suggested anywhere in this thread that a new shooter should not perform 'due diligence,' prior to buying his/her first handgun. That is just a conclusion that it was convenient for you to jump to, to make the argument that you are comfortable with...what _you_ would do.

It is no great 'pearl of wisdom' to suggest that a person needs to research the subject of handguns and self defense shooting, seek advice from experienced shooters, and handle a variety of handguns before purchasing one. It's just common sense that a person would do this, so I didn't bother to emphasize the obvious...but thanks for the review, anyway.

What I am suggesting is nothing more than another way to go about the process of buying a handgun. Sure, it's a grand idea to shoot someone else's guns to see what features you like...if it is an option you have, and if you don't mind investing the extra money. But, it's not really necessary, if it's not convenient, or if you just don't want to do it.


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

If spending a couple extra bucks is a deal breaker you are right you don't have to do it. Roll the dice, learn to shoot and decide if you like what you now own later.

If you go into anything with the attitude as you just said.."I don't want to do this" it will rarely if ever serve a purpose.

No its not necessay to prepare totally for anything, it's just a better idea to do so. 

Well that is unless you cant afford it, it's out of the way, or just don't want too. Simply put, buying a gun is as easy as get your permit to purchase, have some money and know where the LGS is. For me buying a gun is a very long time commitment longer then a car even longer then many of my houses. I want to be sure it is right, not practice until i learn to tolerate it. Even if it cost me an extra hundred bucks. If I own the gun for 10 years thats 83 cents a month invested. 

RCG


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

It's not "necessary" to get a home inspection or appraisal when buying a house either, and you can save a few bucks buy not doing either. Sometimes saving a few bucks can cost you much more, that is my point. No, it is not always necessary for every purchase; I did my own home inspection and appraisal on my last real estate purchase. I have the experience and knowledge to do it myself, but a first-time buyer would be stupid to do likewise. Same with buying a gun. If you have the knowledge and experience, renting is unlikely to be necessary, but that is not true for someone new to firearms, or who has limited experience.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Some folks feel the need to dot every "i" and cross every "t," but I guess I'm just not one of them. When I make a large expenditure, I pay attention to detail, and I want certain safeguards in place.

But I try not to wear myself out too much over buying a gun. It takes a few minutes on the Internet to get a consensus of opinion on a particular gun, and if a 'newbie' screws up and buys something he doesn't like, he can still learn to shoot with it and the experience won't hurt him, any.

Feel free to have the last word on this subject. I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll just move on to the next controversy. :mrgreen:


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

:mrgreen:Word.:mrgreen:


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## C1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Bisley said:


> Well, yeah...don't buy a mouse gun to learn to shoot with...I didn't mean to just buy _anything_.
> 
> It took me one range session and about fifty rounds of ammo to correct my handgun form from a very bad one-handed grip to a combat grip that made my shooting much more consistent. In the years since that, I have taught it to others who immediately started shooting better, because of it.
> 
> I'm just saying that the best way to learn to shoot is to just buy a gun and start shooting. If you like shooting, you will swap around or keep buying more guns, till you get the 'right one.' I have bought the perfect gun, at least a dozen times...and there is always one out there that is perfecter. :mrgreen:


Are you sure you are using proper form? I see a lot of LE and military who are not sound in the fundamentals of shooting a handgun. Watch this clip by Todd Jarrett.
YouTube - Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting.

The cost of a course taught by a NRA Certified Instructor will be well worth the cost. First, instructors and range officers will work with you on your safety. Second, they will cover things to consider when purchasing a firearm. Third, when you are safe they can work with you on being consistent and accurate. Start with the NRA Basic Pistol Course.


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