# Multiple Impact Bullet ???



## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

Yes or No to this ammo as recommended in the video where your first 2 rounds are MIB's and the rest are your choice of a more traditional Defensive round

Here is a bullet with 3 projectiles tethered together to make a 14" bullet.

I think this is a pretty neat idea. I am curious if it would work with a suppressor.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)




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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

'First hit advantage' is NOT everything. Immediately stopping the threat, 'cold' is everything! Personally I fail to recognize an advantage in dividing a 230 bullet into three (tethered) separate parts and, then, attempting to stop a target with as little as only one 76 1/2 grain projectile. (Which I suspect dissipates muzzle energy very quickly.)

Other things, also, bother me about, 'MIB' rounds: What is the effective range? All I saw in the video is a couple of 7 1/2 yard shots. The comments about, 'going right through the guy' are completely unproven; and I am skeptical that the bullets' tether does very much - if anything at all - for actual bullet penetration. Moreover, while I recognize the manufacturing cost of these cartridges is high, the retail price for only 10 rounds is obscene! (You can purchase 50 caliber BMG ammo for, about, the same price!)

All the video showed me is a, somewhat, useful pistol cartridge for relatively close-range use by comparatively unskilled, undisciplined, gun owners who aren't really any good with either a handgun, or at CQB pistol combat to begin with. If I've learned anything, at all, about CQB pistol combat during my time on this earth it's to do your level best not to let a similarly armed bad guy to get within Dennis Tueller's infamous 7 1/2 yard KILL ZONE*. As far as this pistolero is concerned 7 1/2 yards easily translates into MUTUAL SUICIDE; and Dave Spaulding's seminal work on, '_What Really Happens In A Gunfight_' seems to support this opinion.

No, 'MIB' cartridges are not for someone like me. If I've got: 230, 180, 158, or 147 grain bullets in my pistol, then, that's what I want to strike the target with each and every time. So, I've voted, '_No way, not ever_'. (At the same time I, also, realize that my elderly mother might get, at least, some benefit from using these bullets, though.) 

* 'Kill Zone' may be subjectively defined as, '_The other guy's personal combat comfort zone_'. It is that distance at which your opponent feels, both, comfortable and confident that he's going to be successful in striking you during his initial attack. (In other words it's exactly, 'Where' you do not want an armed opponent to be either at, or inside of when he begins his attack.)

What does this tell an experienced pistol gunfighter? 'MIB' rounds are going to be of greater value to a street gunfighter or convenience store robber than they will ever be to another gunman who is practiced at, and up on his pistolcraft.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

MIBs. For everyone who ever wanted to turn a trustworthy and predictable 1911 into a shrapnel and litigation generator.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

14 diamater? So what happens when your first or second shot needs to be *< 14" from something you don't want to shoot?
*

...yeah that's got trouble written all over it.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

I'd also like to see some gel testing of this to see what happens to penetration.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

+1 on the gel tests.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

VAMarine said:


> I'd also like to see some gel testing of this to see what happens to penetration.


 I'm predicting that the penetration of clothing covered gel will be woefully inadequate. The following items, in my mind, will be working against its success.


 An aerodynamically neutral projectile fragments into 3 pieces of junk tethered to a hub. The ballistic coefficient of this apparatus must resemble a flying dream catcher. Velocity will rapidly decrease.

The weight of each piece will be less than 1/3 of the original projectile, after the weight of the hub and tether is subtracted. MV squared energy of each piece will be reduced drastically. 

Unless the tether has a low breaking point, any attempted penetration of an individual piece will be hindered by the tether that is attached to 2 other pieces wanting to follow their own path. 
 I can't imagine the tether slicing through clothing and flesh like it did the paper target. I might enjoy playing with this ammo, but I would never trust it to protect me or my family.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TurboHonda said:


> *I'm predicting that the penetration of clothing covered gel will be woefully inadequate*. The following items, in my mind, will be working against its success.
> 
> 
> An aerodynamically neutral projectile fragments into 3 pieces of junk tethered to a hub. The ballistic coefficient of this apparatus must resemble a flying dream catcher. Velocity will rapidly decrease.
> ...


Ditto.


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

I asked the company about the tether strength and they said that they will break from the tether with resistance.

I also asked about suppressor use with these bullets and it isn't recommended yet however they are testing it


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

It goes in the novelty classification.........


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh Lord,who thought up this crap?Sad part is someone will buy it with illusions of grandeur.


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## moonm (Dec 4, 2013)

ponzer04 said:


> I asked the company about the tether strength and they said that they will break from the tether with resistance.
> 
> I also asked about suppressor use with these bullets and it isn't recommended yet however they are testing it


If the projectiles break from the tether w/ resistance then how is this supposed to be different from buckshot? it seems like this would be something unintended. Or am I missing something here?


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

they spread to 14" until they make contact with the target and just say 2 of 3 hit the missing shot will hold to the tether for a faction of time and re-vector(ish) back to where the center of fire was and break from the tether before it wraps back around to the back of the target.

They differ from buck shot because until they make contact they stay together and don't keep spreading.


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## Capt Rick Hiott (Aug 22, 2010)

,,,,,,somebody has to much money......

I think a few thick shirts and a coat would just about stop that........


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

ponzer04 said:


> They differ from buck shot because until they make contact they stay together and don't keep spreading.


Apparently you have never fired buckshot from a short length cylinder bore barrel.
I have only one gun for buckshot data points. Mossberg 500 20" barrel cylinder bore.

2 3/4" length standard 00 buckshot does NOT spread at inside your house defensive distances. How do I know ?

A lot of big cardboard boxes. In five yard intervals. From five to 40 yards. Plus the "standard seven yards" thrown in.
Try it. You are going to be REAL surprised at what happens at 40 yards. I was.

When I was a 12 year old kid, I bought a new Win. Model 12, 30 in. barrel, full choke. And used it until leaving high school.
With #2 or #4 shot it would throw down Mallards at 40 - 60 yards. Yum, yum, with cranberry/walnut jello salad. :mrgreen:

I will "leave it to the student" to determine which gun/ammo ran a tighter pattern at 40 yards. Don't rely on "I think". :smt1099


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

I am not arguing with you on the defensive distances and the spreading effect. The idea of spreading would come into play most in a "MISS SCENARIO" lets just go with an intruder by a bi house window you pull your shot slightly left and hit with 2/3 of your shot. That is only on loose projectile from the MIB and 3-5 loose from the 12ga-00 buckshot of you choice. The MIB is designed to have the missing projectile re-vector back towards the original aiming point just behind your target where the buck shot will continue out and to the right. 

These are NOT meant to be plinking rounds the designer says to check a round or two in your carry gun then load the first two with MIB's and the rest with your typical ammo. I still think that this is a good idea for those out there that buy a home defense gun and do very little in the way of training. 

These are not "SNIPER" bullets and thus are not appropriate for say, a hostage scenario. How many Home Defense altercations actually have hostages? Any ammo you choose you have the potential for it to be completely and utterly wrong for the situation you happen to find yourself in.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

If you really want to carry MIB rounds, then I'm not going to object.  

You do, of course, realize that you've now expanded any available line-of-fire by, at least, 14 inches - Right! Not for me! I'm going to stay with putting the first 1-3 rounds smack in the middle of the target's face. In fact, the thought of someone, 'who doesn't practice a lot' suddenly firing one or two projectiles with 14 inch diameter flight paths really doesn't sit well with me. 

$50.00 buys me either 150 rounds of 9mm target ammo, or 2 1/2 hours of (warm and comfy) indoor range time! Just out of curiosity: Will one of these rounds (or three, as the case maybe) produce, at least, 10 inches of penetration in a typical block of ballistic gelatin? (Me? I don't think so ...... )


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## ponzer04 (Oct 23, 2011)

under situations where you would consider a 12ga I think these bullets as your first two pistol shots followed along with 16 more 9mm could be a great combo.

in public ccw i see the negatives


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

This is yet another "miracle of the week."
It's a mere gimmick, meant to assure the gun owner who is too foolish or too lazy to practice that practice really isn't necessary.
You don't need to practice your shooting skills. All you need is our new, miraculous gimmick.

Please be advised that, as a man wiser and more experienced than I*** once said, "No gimmick or miracle-of-the-week can ever absolve you from the need to build, practice, and maintain your pistol-shooting skills."

***Michael Harries



ponzer04 said:


> under situations where you would consider a 12ga I think these bullets as your first two pistol shots followed along with 16 more 9mm could be a great combo...


If a 12ga shotgun is called for, then you have only two options: Get a 12ga shotgun, or, if that is unavailable to you, be able to quickly, decisively, and effectively place your 9mm bullets into fight-stopping locations.
Three fiddly-bits on a string will never be able to do what a 12ga shotgun can do. Any 12ga shotgun shell will always be loaded with more effective material than those three sad and silly fiddly-bits on a string.
Three fiddly-bits on a string will also never be able to do what one well-placed 9mm bullet of any weight or type will do. And if you feel the need to fire 18 of your 9mm bullets, then you had better be prepared to accomplish quick, smooth reloads.

Remember: "No gimmick or miracle-of-the-week can ever absolve you from the need to build, practice, and maintain your pistol-shooting skills."


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## Lonestar3 (Dec 25, 2013)

This is just another gimmick thought up by some bullet mfg company to get suckers to buy expensive ammo. Every time I buy .45 or 9mm i look at the .22 ammo and think about all the murder reports on people being shot by .22 cal ammo. These people would probably recommend I buy the .22 ammo... except they are dead. 

This ammo looks like it is more likely to strangle someone than anything else.


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## neorebel (Dec 25, 2013)

I don't see any advantage to your idea. The point of the bullet is to incapacitate a person. A tethered round???? 

Shot placement, bullet size, expansion of the bullet, trauma etc....Shot placement is the most important unless hit by a 50 caliber BMG in which case it wouldn't matter where you were hit...it would hurt something fierce.


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## OldManMontgomery (Nov 2, 2013)

I remember this concept from when I was but a pup. Except then, it was loaded at home by experimenters with what was known as 'split shot', used for fishing weights - I think - and nylon fishing line. I saw results fired on paper targets, consisting of what one would expect; three or four somewhat raggedy holes and cuts by the fishing line. They didn't always hold together, either.

I remember no testing on 'gelatin', but some on water jugs. At close range - where defensive encounters occur, y'know (and oddly where the shot doesn't spread too far) - the water jugs were reasonably molested. A single pellet or 'bit' would less impressive than all at once. With a 14 inch spread, that is a possibility. 

I think a number of people tried the idea and went back to single, solid bullets of the more or less conventional type. At least, no one talked about the 'tethered' shot concept anymore. 

Some of the other comments already made - like something NOT to be shot within 14 inches - also apply. Well put, I might add.

I'll stick with large caliber, flat fronted bullets; lead or jacketed. Thanks anyway.


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