# The Final Two!



## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

Ok, so I went to look at some guns today. I've narrowed it down to 2 guns.

HK USP Compact .40

SA XD 4" Service .40

I REALLY like the XD as far as features, price, and reputation.

BUT

I just can't stop smiling after holdig that USP... just something about it.

I'm fighting with myself here, can anyone offer their oppinions on THESE two guns? It's a tough call for me.


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

That is a hard one. I know which I would pic but it depends on what you like.

Lets say both are very accurate and reliable

Difference

HK
Numerous trigger options (exposed hammer)(Option of manual safety)
Mag release reachable by both sides of weapon
Unique recoil system (works very well)

XD
Constant trigger striker system 
Traditional mag release
grip safety

All I can think of for now. Best advice since both a great guns is to get the one that feels best!


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

That's the problem, I tried them both and both felt great!

Tell me more about:

HK
Unique Recoil
Trigger Options

XD
Constant trigger striker system


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

I would get the XD because you have the two HK's.


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## KingAirDriver (Aug 13, 2006)

Well, I have _nearly_ the same two as you: USPc and XDSC, both 9mm. They're both excellent guns! I carry them both, but if I had to pick a favorite it would be the USPc. I love that gun; feels nice, holds a bit more, is only slightly larger than the XDSC, _and_ has the safety/decocker that I wish the XD had. I don't think you could go wrong with either, but I really, really love my HK!  The only question is, are you willing to pay another $200-300 for an HK?


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> I would get the XD because you have the two HK's.


? I don't own any guns ?


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

I'm going to tell you what I tell my customers. 

Get the one that makes you smile. 

If you don't, you'll get it later anyway. And you'll keep thinking of what a great gun it is until you do. Which means you won't like the XD as much as you could.

So I say get the HK.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

SuckLead said:


> I'm going to tell you what I tell my customers.
> 
> Get the one that makes you smile.
> 
> ...


That one did make me smile, even when I tried not to... I don't know why. It just felt like... "man, I will mess you up!"

It just felt right.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> That one did make me smile, even when I tried not to... I don't know why. It just felt like... "man, I will mess you up!"
> 
> It just felt right.


I hear ya. I've been there. My first gun was going to be a Ruger semi-auto. But I took the Sig P226 out on the range because it was the only rental in 40 at the time. It was instant love. It was way out of my price range, so I kept trying to convince myself to get the Ruger.

I ended up doing what I could to afford the Sig and have never looked back.


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> That's the problem, I tried them both and both felt great!
> 
> Tell me more about:
> 
> ...


HK has a patented recoil reduction system in their pistols. In the full size this constitutes a double spring set-up while in the compact it is a standard style spring with a polymer buffer. Both do an excellent job of managing recoil! My USPc .45 is the softest shooting .45 that I have ever shot (which includes my full size .45(though it is very close)).

As for trigger options, if you go for HK you can get the standard SA/DA setup or a LEM/DAO setup. It all depends what you like. You can get one with manual safety or without. You can get it on the left side or the right. You can get it with a de-cocker or without. There are many options given so the gun fits the shooter.

The XD trigger is similar to the Glock in the respect that you have a constant trigger pull each time. With HK you can do the same with the LEM trigger or you can do DA first then SA after, or (my personal favorite) SA with hammer back and manual safety on (just like 1911).

As said above, get what makes you smile! :smt1099


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

LEM DA SA? Can you elaborate a little more on these aswell as the XD trigger.


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## glennc (May 12, 2006)

I've never owned an HK but I have owned XD's in 9mm and .40. They have been reliable, and accurate. I shoot my 9mm in IDPA and do very well. HK is a very fine weapon, it's your personal choice, shoot them both before you decide.


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> LEM DA SA? Can you elaborate a little more on these aswell as the XD trigger.


DA= Double Action (First action pulling the hammer back, second is releasing the hammer. The results in a tuff trigger pull. Say 8lb or so. Once the gun is fired the slide moving rearward cocks the hammer thus putting the gun in single action mode for the rest of firing.)

SA= Single Action (Hammer is already back so the only action is releasing the hammer. This is usually light since the only action being taken is releasing the hammer. Say about 4lb.)

LEM (I do not know the mechanics but I believe the trigger pull is about 5lb and there is no manual safety. Just pull the trigger over and over to fire.

Striker system (instead of there being a hammer the firing pin is on a spring. When the trigger is pulled the firing pin is being pulled back and released. Kinda like a sling shot. It is pulling and release in stead of hitting the firing pin. Am I making sense?  )

I am sure someone else can explain better.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

Ok, I get it except for the LEM.

Now as far as double action...

What's the difference between DA and DAO?


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> Ok, I get it except for the LEM.
> 
> Now as far as double action...
> 
> What's the difference between DA and DAO?


Well there is double action as I described and DAO= double action only. This means that the hammer cannot be cocked. Each shot will have a stiffer trigger pull. It is like a revolver in a way. No safety and each pull of the trigger is tougher than a SA pull.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

-gunut- said:


> Well there is double action as I described and DAO= double action only. This means that the hammer cannot be cocked. Each shot will have a stiffer trigger pull. It is like a revolver in a way. No safety and each pull of the trigger is tougher than a SA pull.


Ok and the DA/SA... the first shot cocks it, and every shot afterwards is pre-cocked from the recoil?

Is that right?


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## redrooster (Mar 24, 2007)

Somebody may have corrected this already, but the XD does have an ambidextrous mag release...so it is also accessible from either side.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

-gunut- said:


> Well there is double action as I described and DAO= double action only. This means that the hammer cannot be cocked. Each shot will have a stiffer trigger pull. It is like a revolver in a way. No safety and each pull of the trigger is tougher than a SA pull.


I see it as 3 types of actions. SA, DA/SA and DAO. The SA should be SAO that you find in SA revolvers and 1911 type auto's. DA/SA you find in both auto's and revolver's and the DA is a true DA (also found on hamerless revover's true DA only) pull before your SA takes over on decocker models. Now the DAO system on autos is a different system and is between SA/DA mode with a trigger pull in the middle.
Well that's how I look at it.


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## k1w1t1m (Jan 31, 2007)

I "felt" a HK with the LEM trigger the other day. It is a long and fairly light trigger pull, lighter than the DA trigger pull of a DA/SA. If it wasn't for the price tag it would have been mine. I have to admit it felt really nice in my hands.

One for the wish list I guess.


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## PenguinRunway (Apr 3, 2007)

I still need this LEM thing explained to be in more depth. Simply "lighter trigger pull than a DA/SA" helps some, but I'm still not getting the whole picture.

This is what I've pieced together so far.

SA:
Cock, then fire

DA/SA:
First pull cocks and fires (if not cocked already)
Recoil cocks gun, and every repeat shot is SA

DAO:
Never cocked, must always be cocked by pulling trigger. To prevent accidents I guess?

LEM: Never cocked, always half cocked... I think... I don't really know.

I'm piecing this all together little by little from the puzzle pieces I'm gradually getting. HELP ME! :smt022


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

PenguinRunway said:


> I still need this LEM thing explained to be in more depth. Simply "lighter trigger pull than a DA/SA" helps some, but I'm still not getting the whole picture.
> 
> This is what I've pieced together so far.
> 
> ...


Most DOA have to be cocked by moving the slide back. I have a P99 DAO with a decocker. They say you can decock then pull the slide back just a little to cock it. Every time I try it I end up pulling the slide to far back and getting rid of a good round. I don't think DOA's should have decockers


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