# Will the Ruger LCP Max start a trend?



## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Double-stack micro 380s? Not the Bersa, Glock or S&W EZ but the tiny ones made by Kahr, S&W, Remington, Colt, SIG, Beretta, Springfield Armory, Kimber, etc. SIG got the micro 9 double-stack trend going with the P365. Not sure why the Kel-Tec P-11 didn't in 1995-2017. Maybe because they make like one gun per week. Anyway imagine a micro 380 that's .1" wider & longer in the grip because it holds 4 more rounds. Worth a look? Just throwing out an idea. The LCP Max is getting a lot of attention on Youtube. There are rare times when I carry my Beretta Pico 380 because my SIG P290 RS 9mm is a little too big & it's only the size of a Kahr PM9. Depends on what I'm wearing, where I'm going & what I'm doing.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

.380 caliber pistols are not going to start any trends with this guy.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

I have a LCPII and it's a reliable little gun but a .380 put in of that short a barrel is not my cup of bullets. When concealment is needed I really don't want to go with less than a SA Hellcat 9MM. That said I still prefer a CZ 9MM Compact.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

The LCP has a place due to its size. When you start doing double stack models, I think there are better options. I'll jump to my normal sized Shield then...

The LCP I have is not a very fun gun to shoot either. Kicks a lot.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Post deleted


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Ya know - it is interesting... You love to be confrontational Jeb. I have one (LCP), and I like it for what it is. I have said that it is not a fun gun to shoot, though. And, I mean it.

When I first got mine back in 2012 or 13, I put 150 rounds thru it on the 1st range trip - and it was NOT a fun experience. I did it to test reliability... My hand hurt by the time I was done. I shoot it decently, but I never really try it past 7 yards. It's not really a gun that is made for shooting further than that, IMHO. It is what it is... It is a smaller gun to carry when you can't carry a bigger gun. But, it is not a target gun or a range gun, per se... CAN it shoot further - possibly. I think the average user would be hard pressed to do so, but yea, it probably can.

There seems to be a trend coming up lately - and it must be all this left wing micro aggression crap... Because now, if someone says ANYTHING negative about someone else's gun/item/whatever that another person likes... They are a "basher" or a "hater." I am so sick of seeing that term on the Taurus area of so many different gun forums. Now, we have to see it on the Ruger section? Wow.

You apparently don't know how to talk about a gun you apparently like, without attacking so many people who would read your post. Your text turns off a lot of people...



> That said, many gun owners hate the thought that a small gun can be more capable or have advantages over their high priced bigger bore gun. HOW DARE THEM attitude.


How dare them?



> *Most of the bashers are typically those that cannot shoot them*, do not understand them and do not want to spend time with them or learn their capabilitie


Once again... Bashers? Is that really necessary.

It seems like ANYONE who posts ANYTHING that you do not agree with gets an earful in a confrontational and nasty way...



> As far as those that want to bash them. If you do not have a lot of experience with them, then I really not interested in hearing the same old jargon..


I would much rather choose my Shield over the LCP. But, as I stated above, the LCP does have a place.

But, apparently there were people (myself included) who replied after the original post. None of us said anything horrible about the LCP. But, it doesn't seem to be someone else's cup of tea... Then there is your post. Instead of politely telling people why you like the gun. And maybe nicely convince someone else coming to this thread the 1st time why they should consider an LCP - you posted what you did... Essentially insulting the 3 posters above your post.

Damn, imagine this forum if EVERYONE did that.... Anytime someone gave me crap about being a Beretta 92 fan, I just unload on them... The thread about modifying a carry gun from a few days ago... I don't do it... Should I have been nasty and called some of the other people on that thread "haters" because I disagree with them?

You really should dial it back a little bit.... Just a suggestion....

Now, I am not looking to pick a fight. Please don't take my post as such. I just find your comments really bizarre and I am asking that you dial it down a bit. Please. Thanks.

You can't come at someone like that anytime someone disagrees with your opinion (which none of us even knew, because you posted after us).

Thanks


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Deleted - not worth responding to


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I never said the LCP type pocket guns were bad. I just prefer something in 9MM or larger. I bough the original LCP for a specific purpose and fired it enough to know what it could and couldn't do. My Daughter, a CCW holder, thought it was just perfect so naturally I gave it to her. I then bought a LCPII and really liked it better, Still I almost never carry it because I will not pocket carry and I can IWB carry the Hellcat just as easily. More range, more power, more ammunition.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Tangof said:


> Not to add fuel to the fire, but I never said the LCP type pocket guns were bad. I just prefer something in 9MM or larger. I bough the original LCP for a specific purpose and fired it enough to know what it could and couldn't do. My Daughter, a CCW holder, thought it was just perfect so naturally I gave it to her. I then bought a LCPII and really liked it better, Still I almost never carry it because I will not pocket carry and I can IWB carry the Hellcat just as easily. More range, more power, more ammunition.


Tangot, you say you know what it could or could not do. But is that just you or everyone? Some would say the gun could not shoot a fast head shot at 15 yds. Does that mean no one can, even though many have been shooting them for years. It really IMO comes down to what you put into it. I was a competitive Runner since high school and later a coach. I heard many that would join the team say , say they could never run sub 5:30 min miles for 10 miles.Yet proper consistent training would prove that totally wrong. If you could not shoot a LCP well, or more importantly have no desire to want to, then I can understand that. If you choose the Hellcat over a small 380 is fine and obviously a better fit for your personal beliefs, desires or wants. But there are actually many that would prefer a much lighter gun and the advantages of small pocket gun and they can shoot them extremely well.. Some folks would rather drive a large SUV as opposed to a Sports car. Each to his own.

Heck, before the shortage, I shot pocket guns for so many years and so often that picking up my Kahr CM 9 felt like a duty gun. I carry a Pico or Kahr 380 almost 95 Percent of the time. And I have full competence in both of them. One poster would go insane on this and tell me quite often I was nothing but a dead man walking. He carried a Glock 19 with multiple mags. Ok, I guess I am a dead man walking.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

Jeb Stuart said:


> Tangot, you say you know what it could or could not do. But is that just you or everyone? Some would say the gun could not shoot a fast head shot at 15 yds. Does that mean no one can, even though many have been shooting them for years. It really IMO comes down to what you put into it. I was a competitive Runner since high school and later a coach. I heard many that would join the team say , say they could never run sub 5:30 min miles for 10 miles.Yet proper consistent training would prove that totally wrong. If you could not shoot a LCP well, or more importantly have no desire to want to, then I can understand that. If you choose the Hellcat over a small 380 is fine and obviously a better fit for your personal beliefs, desires or wants. But there are actually many that would prefer a much lighter gun and the advantages of small pocket gun and they can shoot them extremely well.. Some folks would rather drive a large SUV as opposed to a Sports car. Each to his own.
> 
> Heck, before the shortage, I shot pocket guns for so many years and so often that picking up my Kahr CM 9 felt like a duty gun. I carry a Pico or Kahr 380 almost 95 Percent of the time. And I have full competence in both of them. One poster would go insane on this and tell me quite often I was nothing but a dead man walking. He carried a Glock 19 with multiple mags. Ok, I guess I am a dead man walking.


Yes, I meant me personally. I'm sure that someone who practices regularly with a pocket gun can do better than I can. I fired my two enough so I was confident to 10 yards and could do a quick magazine change if required. I never put the time or effort needed to become really proficient with them because I was carrying a CZ P-01 or 97b 95% of the time and the Hellcat the rest of the time. Concealment is not a major factor for me. Open carry State (which I don't do) and LEOSA pretty much covers me. Your personal situation dictates how and what you carry.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, the original LCP is really a nicer clone of the Keltec pistol (in both 380 and 32). I used to have a Keltec 32 many, many years ago. After I almost got robbed in a gun store parking lot, and all I had was that little 32... I vowed to myself not to be in that situation again. I sold the Keltec and started carrying a Kahr PM9, whenever I couldn't carry anything better.

But that Kahr was definitely not fun to shoot, and I did not shoot it well. I eventually sold the Kahr when the original Shield came out, and then I got the Ruger LCP (for times when I couldn't hide a Shield). I shoot the Ruger much better than I did the Kahr. But honestly - if I knew I was going to be in a situation, I'd prefer something bigger. To me, the 380 Ruger is better than nothing. And, I think I am satisfied with the 380 ballistics (not so much on the 32).

Another issue with those original Keltecs... In 32, you needed to carry FMJ rounds for self defense, unless you bought this special conversion kit for the magazine... If you carried JHP in the Keltec 32, you risked rimlock if you didn't have the conversion kit. But, that was another reason why I wasn't that confident in that Keltec - using FMJ rounds for self defense. Although - looking at the ballistics, JHP round in 32 typically did not expand very much anyway. So, technically, it wasn't that different (statistically).

Once Texas allowed open carry, I stopped worrying about printing. It doesn't matter anymore. No, I don't make it super obvious. But because of lower back and hop problems for many years now, I no longer carry IWB when wearing long pants. I carry OWB.

Anyway - to me, a mouse gun has its place, but it is not my preference. But, I do have one I occasionally carry. I have no intention of buying another, however.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## 54rambler (Oct 15, 2018)

The OP's title was about Ruger starting a trend with the LCP Max. I've wondered that too. It's too early to see how well it's selling but I bet other gun makers are watching those numbers. 
I've seen articles that Sig has the P365 out in .380 but I have never seen one in any local gun shop, just the 9mm. 
My wife prefers the recoil of the 380 over any 9mm I've ever gotten her to try. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. 
Trend or not I hope Ruger does well with this pistol and it serves a need for many people.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

It was the Kahr PM9 I previously had, not the P9. Similar guns, but the PM9 was smaller... I did try renting the P9 later, thinking that the slightly bigger gun would recoil less. But, it was about the same.

As for that almost robbery - it was many years ago... I was carrying a Beretta 92 inside of a pistol case to go into the gun store - to check out some laser grips. I had just went in and asked permission to bring it in, and then I went out to my car to get it. It was my normal carry gun at the time. But since I was taking it into the store to check the grips, I had it unloaded and in the case...

As I was about to walk back into the store - A group of late teens approached me. 1 in particular was coming straight for me. I doubled back to my car, and looked thru the window directly at the guy as I pretended to bend down to get something. It was right then that I was so pissed at myself for only having that Keltec 32 on me. 

I knew he knew there was a handgun in the case, and he likely wanted it...

The guy was almost on me, so I ended up slamming the door, and jumped down to a lower level of the parking lot. I think it was like a 4 or 5 foot drop. I then made a circle in the parking lot and headed towards the main, busy street. The guy was right where i had been before I jumped, but thankfully he did not follow me. He rejoined the rest of the group, as they walked further into the large parking lot. I soon went into the gun store and told them what happened. They looked on the outdoor cameras a few min later, but they couldn't see anyone by that point. 

Thankfully I managed to get away from the guy, and I never had to pull the gun.

I actually sold the Keltec within a week. And, for about a year, my main carry gun was a new Hk USPC 45 that I carried everyday. I wasn't going to be on the 32 train anymore 

I did by the Kahr later, for times I needed a small gun, as I mentioned above. After about a year, I went back to the Beretta 92 as my carry gun, and I later sold the HK.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

54rambler said:


> The OP's title was about Ruger starting a trend with the LCP Max. I've wondered that too. It's too early to see how well it's selling but I bet other gun makers are watching those numbers.
> I've seen articles that Sig has the P365 out in .380 but I have never seen one in any local gun shop, just the 9mm.
> My wife prefers the recoil of the 380 over any 9mm I've ever gotten her to try. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.
> Trend or not I hope Ruger does well with this pistol and it serves a need for many people.


In the 1990s, I had a Colt Pony 380. It was a locked breech, and 100% stainless steel. Low recoil, but damn heavy to pocket carry. 

The problem with a lot of 380s is that many are blowback. The blowback 380s can have more felt recoil than a 9mm. I remember having a Beretta 85. It kicked more than a 9mm 92FS.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Jeb Stuart said:


> Never shot a Beretta 85, not saying you are wrong, but a 380 that weighs 23oz with a recoil rating of a paltry 2.45 lbs has more recoil than a 9MM 92FS? Grant you, a 92FS does not have much recoil, but maybe so. Regardless, my favorite is the Pico and the Kahr P380 and I find them almost like shooting a 22.cal magnum Very pleasant to shoot. I guess felt recoil is different for individuals. Just asking, please take no offense, but are you recoil sensitive?


Most 9mms are locked breech. Some 380s are, and some are not. The Beretta Cheetah series is a blowback design, not locked breech. And yea, it had more recoil than a 9mm. I was actually a bit surprised on my first range trip. The gun is very snappy.

If you ever get a chance to shoot one, you will be surprised. I believe the Sig 232 is also blowback, but I never shot one and cannot remember for sure. 

No, not recoil sensitive, although I felt the Kahr PM9 had more recoil than I care for. I did not enjoy shooting that gun.

I once had a Bersa 380 - ended up selling it to my 70 year old (at the time) mother. There was only 2 guns she could move the slide on at that age - an HK USPc 9mm and the Bersa. Well, the Bersa was much cheaper. That gun did not have bad recoil. But, the Cheetah series sure did.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)




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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Trend? Doubtful. 
Tiny guns have a place and it is with very experienced shooters. Most of which prefer something else, but they have a place.
I've never been a 380 fan, so hard to say how the target base will react.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Better chance of finding Bigfoot than 380 ammo.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

Jeb Stuart said:


> Maybe I read the OP's question wrong. I thought it was a question as to the 380 with a hi cap magazine becoming a trend. Not a question which subcompact or compact you prefer or which caliber. I will say emphatically I have no desire, want or NEED for a hi Cap Pocket Gun. I believe the Pocket gun a a great EDC defense gun, but will only choose a single stack for many reasons.
> But will a Trend begin with other manufactures, I say no. But then again, do not underestimate the Power of the Internet to drive sales of products that you do not need, And plenty of newbie buyers out there. It always comes down to the MONEY!


Definitely the money. I remember the Glock enthusiasts slavering for the new Glock coming out. Anticipation was at the boiling point. All sort's of theories: Carbine shooting the 9/MM/.45 cartridge. New double stack mini 9MM. 10MM Carbine. Full size .223 rifle with an interchangeable short barrel. Man the ideas flowed. What they got was the "Legendary" Vanilla flavored plain jane 10 shot .22. Or the screams of outrage! That's it? That's it!!! Then they all lined up to buy one. Never mind that 10 shot .22 handguns had been around like forever or that lowly Taurus had a better 16 shot model out that was $150.00 to $200.00 cheaper, came with a threaded barrel, and magazines were half the price of Glock ones. Also, the G44 jammed. Like a lot. No matter. Stand on one foot and jump up and down with the Glock magazines and they will work. Glock sales people aren't stupid. They knew that the guns would sell no matter how disappointed the Glockophiles were. Now they're selling threaded barrels for the G44 at $160.00. Marketing is everything.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Tangof said:


> Definitely the money. I remember the Glock enthusiasts slavering for the new Glock coming out. Anticipation was at the boiling point. All sort's of theories: Carbine shooting the 9/MM/.45 cartridge. New double stack mini 9MM. 10MM Carbine. Full size .223 rifle with an interchangeable short barrel. Man the ideas flowed. What they got was the "Legendary" Vanilla flavored plain jane 10 shot .22. Or the screams of outrage! That's it? That's it!!! Then they all lined up to buy one. Never mind that 10 shot .22 handguns had been around like forever or that lowly Taurus had a better 16 shot model out that was $150.00 to $200.00 cheaper, came with a threaded barrel, and magazines were half the price of Glock ones. Also, the G44 jammed. Like a lot. No matter. Stand on one foot and jump up and down with the Glock magazines and they will work. Glock sales people aren't stupid. They knew that the guns would sell no matter how disappointed the Glockophiles were. Now they're selling threaded barrels for the G44 at $160.00. Marketing is everything.


Ummm. I think this thread was about Rugers, and mouse guns, and 380s... It migrated a little when I talked about a near robbery I had, but it still involved a mouse gun...

Tell me, could you not wait to bash Glocks, and just had to work that into any thread that was active? 

Your post had NOTHING to do with this thread.

I think I'll go brag about one of my Berettas in the next Sig thread


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

Shipwreck said:


> Ummm. I think this thread was about Rugers, and mouse guns, and 380s... It migrated a little when I talked about a near robbery I had, but it still involved a mouse gun...
> 
> Tell me, could you not wait to bash Glocks, and just had to work that into any thread that was active?
> 
> ...


Sorry, I sure did stray from the point. I own Glocks. When the marketing was mentioned I went off on a tangent. Again, my Apologies


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## AdioSS (Dec 4, 2020)

yes a blowback .380 Beretta 84 is very snappy compared to the fullsize 9mm 92FS. That locked breach design makes a huge difference.
I have a KelTec P3AT. It is also very snappy, but mainly because the low mass.

Personally, I mainly carry a Beretta MiniCougar loaded with 357Sig 😁


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Welp, don't want to get in the middle of the debate above, but I will say that the little LCP Max has got my attention. I'm looking forward to checking one out!


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Well I just went on ammoseek to see if 380 ammo still exists somewhere. It does but decent carry ammo is 2-3 dollars a round plus shipping so I lost all interest in this pistol.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

Yep


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

deleted


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

There lies the difference. Some folks can shoot the small guns with great proficiency. And for myself the Kahr Cm9 which I have two of, extremely easy to shoot as well as the Kahr CW380. Nothing wrong with you carrying a Beretta 92 and it is a great gun. But EDC of a large Beretta 92f for me would be like carrying a boat anchor around all day. I get a back ache just thinking about it.
Again this whole thread is off and no one really addressing the op's question. I think the LCP Fat Max will be a huge success to new shooters. Other makers of quality 380's will not fad out with a double stack magazine.
By the way, I went to the LGS yesterday to compare with the LCP GEN 2. Also had a long talk with the LGS owner I have known for 20 years and a few of the clerks. Interesting what they have to say about some of the new models coming in that are contrary to what you see on the internet. The Place was dead, very few shooters on the range or in the store.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

My favorite is Glock 19 sized pistols for carry. I carried a HK P2000 for 6 years. I switched to a Gen 5, Glock 19 eleven months ago.

Today, I plan to go try out that 4" S&W Shield I got a week ago. After that, I will rotate that into my carry use. It's still Glock 19 sized, though - just thinner.


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## Jeb Stuart (Jan 19, 2020)

As they say one gun is not a perfect fit for all. Carry what you are good at shooting.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Jeb Stuart said:


> Better chance of finding Bigfoot than 380 ammo.


I must be getting lucky. One of the local stores around me have been getting it in, in FMJ only, about once every two weeks...at 29.99$ per box. I bite every once in a while...have a lot of .380.


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## JohnCEa (Jan 20, 2020)

yea


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