# 5.7, WOW! Satan killer.



## SIGCrazie (May 9, 2007)

I was at my local gun store to pick up my 1911 and I got to talking to my salesguy. I was thinking about buying the Desert Eagle and asked him to bring one out of the case. He handed me the DE and said he would be right back. He brought back a composite mag that looked like a toy accessory. then, he showed me the gun it belonged to. It was the 5.7. He explained the power and accuracy of this pistol. How is this gun even legal? Can anyone tell me their experience with this gun? Is it as good as I believe it would be? Screw the DE, 5 think I want one of these. I've always wanted to own a "SATAN KILLER.":smt076


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

SIGCrazie said:


> I was at my local gun store to pick up my 1911 and I got to talking to my salesguy. I was thinking about buying the Desert Eagle and asked him to bring one out of the case. He handed me the DE and said he would be right back. He brought back a composite mag that looked like a toy accessory. then, he showed me the gun it belonged to. It was the 5.7. He explained the power and accuracy of this pistol. How is this gun even legal? Can anyone tell me their experience with this gun? Is it as good as I believe it would be? Screw the DE, 5 think I want one of these. I've always wanted to own a "SATAN KILLER.":smt076


Sure. It's big, it's clunky, it's clumsy, the ammo is expensive, and it's ballistically about like a .22 Magnum. What's not to like?


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## BAC (May 25, 2007)

After reading the after-action police reports of US policemen using the round (mostly out of a P90, once out of a FiveseveN), I think comparing it to a 22 magnum is greatly underestimating the 5.7 round. However, I do agree that the gun itself is large and uncomfortable. If they could squeeze that into a reliable medium-frame pistol, that'd be cool, but that's a pretty long cartridge. They _might_ be able to stack them diagonally on top of one another (as in the DE .50 AE), and still leave you a decent number of rounds at your disposal. I'll have to sketch it out more (been planning on how to convert a future Glock to 5.7x29, for kicks).

Price is a huge deterrent though. The FiveseveN itself is usually between $800 and $1,000 USD, but the cost of ammo drives it up considerably higher.

Even were I armed with an FN P90, I'd have a different sidearm than a FiveseveN. Too unwieldy.

-B


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## Benzbuilder (Sep 7, 2006)

*5.7 price*

The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.


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## rfawcs (Feb 11, 2006)

Benzbuilder said:


> The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.


Yikes! My 2 cents is that's pretty pricey stuff.


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## Queeqeg (Apr 27, 2007)

rfawcs said:


> Yikes! My 2 cents is that's pretty pricey stuff.


that's what I spend on hollowpoints


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Benzbuilder said:


> The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.


U can get it $2 less a box if U try - I usually buy online.

One or two boxes, I buy in town. But more, I buy online.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

It's one of my favorite guns and having 20 round mag is great and you get 3 with the gun. I love shooting it at a 100 yards at a Silhouette. I can't say I have a great group but I do hit the silhouette with all 20 rounds. I love the action on it and it's lightweight. The only thing I don't like is the front site, it's just to big and can make it hard to draw although I have the new blackhawk serp holster for it.
I get the ammo for $20 a box of 50 with a 2800 FPS. Show me a 22mag doing that out of a pistol.
If the Dems get into office they will go after it in a heart beat.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

spacedoggy said:


> It's one of my favorite guns and having 20 round mag is great and you get 3 with the gun.


Why do people make a big deal about having 20 rounds? My Glock 17 will hold 20 rounds with the addition of a $10 +2 floorplate, and it is smaller and easier to handle and carry than the giant FiveseveN. But so what - under what defensive circumstances would having 20 rounds be an overwhelming advantage?



> I get the ammo for $20 a box of 50 with a 2800 FPS. Show me a 22mag doing that out of a pistol.


I've not personally chronographed the 5.7, but everything I have read shows about 2100fps (not 2800 fps) out of a pistol. Maybe it's 2800fps in the PS90, though.

Anyway, out of a pistol, 5.7 is pretty similar to .22 Magnum from a rifle (30gr at 2200fps, or 40gr at 1900 fps). I don't know anyone whose first choice in a defensive weapon would be a .22 Magnum rifle. Nice rabbit gun, though.



> If the Dems get into office they will go after it in a heart beat.


For those who came in late, the Democrats have already taken office in the House and the Senate.

I lump the FiveseveN in with the DE and the HK Mk. 23 - basically impractical guns that might be fun on the range but are not really suited to anything else.


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## BAC (May 25, 2007)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> Anyway, out of a pistol, 5.7 is pretty similar to .22 Magnum from a rifle (30gr at 2200fps, or 40gr at 1900 fps). I don't know anyone whose first choice in a defensive weapon would be a .22 Magnum rifle. Nice rabbit gun, though.


Out of an SMG (PS90, P90), the round's numbers don't really change much. It's no hunting round, and was never designed to be. As a PDW round or close-quarters assault round, the 5.7 is incredible (yes, even civilian stuff).



> I lump the FiveseveN in with the DE and the HK Mk. 23 - basically impractical guns that might be fun on the range but are not really suited to anything else.


I, for one, will contest that judgment because it conflicts with the popularity the gun is gaining in U.S. police forces. Lots of cops seem to like the reduced recoil (remember, the reason they went to .40 instead of 10mm), and greater accuracy, of the pistol.

Not trying to argue, but personal feelings aside the FiveseveN, and its round, are gaining international popularity, and not without reason.

-B


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

BAC said:


> Out of an SMG (PS90, P90), the round's numbers don't really change much. It's no hunting round, and was never designed to be. As a PDW round or close-quarters assault round, the 5.7 is incredible (yes, even civilian stuff).


So....it's not good for shooting animals smaller than people, but it's good for shooting people? Please define "incredible" in this context. Is it overwhelmingly better than 9mm or 5.56mm or...what?



> I, for one, will contest that judgment because it conflicts with the popularity the gun is gaining in U.S. police forces. Lots of cops seem to like the reduced recoil (remember, the reason they went to .40 instead of 10mm), and greater accuracy, of the pistol.


You sure couldn't tell it was a popular gun by the number of holsters sold for it. Without revealing actual sales figures, Galco holsters for Glocks and even 1911s (not a terribly popular cop gun) outsell FiveseveN holsters by at least 50,000%.

Exactly which police departments issue the FiveseveN?



> Not trying to argue, but personal feelings aside the FiveseveN, and its round, are gaining international popularity, and not without reason.


International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?


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## js (Jun 29, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?


:anim_lol:

that's a good one...


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## Benzbuilder (Sep 7, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> U can get it $2 less a box if U try - I usually buy online.
> 
> One or two boxes, I buy in town. But more, I buy online.


that price is online @ CMMG. They have gone up on their prices for the SS197. You can still get it for 18.75 a box if you order a case of 2000 rnds.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

I've chronographed the 5.7 and get reading between 2650 to 2875. The average is less than my stated 2800 but who cares and why are you arguing everything people post?? I can slap a 33 rd mag into my G17 BIG DEAL. I just like having the 20 rounds of the 5.7 X 28. If that offends you so be it. I don't like the 22 mag round, I can't get a good group with it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. When I mention the Dem I was thinking if they had the office of the president also.

By the way Thank you for your service and please be safe.


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## clic2323 (Nov 26, 2006)

the usg pistol within 15 feet is capable of penatrating body armor even with the civ rounds
i have personaly shot fair groups at 200 yards and with the lack of recoil i would say it is a great gun


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Now I remember why I like the 20 rounds. Because of the weight. It's a quater pound lighter than a Glock mag holding 20 rounds.

Does anyone know what the 5.7 round is classified as, rifle or pistol? I think it's a rifle round because of the neck.


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## BAC (May 25, 2007)

*Mike*, I'll get back with some numbers (and locations) within the next couple days; restaurant's busy lately (meaning I'm tired more... shooting/training is so much easier than waiting...), so I can't promise being lightning quick about the response but it'll come.

Consider this a place mark. 

-B


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## BAC (May 25, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> Now I remember why I like the 20 rounds. Because of the weight. It's a quater pound lighter than a Glock mag holding 20 rounds.
> 
> Does anyone know what the 5.7 round is classified as, rifle or pistol? I think it's a rifle round because of the neck.


Cops treat it as a rifle round, I believe, but that's a good question actually.

-B


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

BAC said:


> *Mike*, I'll get back with some numbers (and locations) within the next couple days; restaurant's busy lately (meaning I'm tired more... shooting/training is so much easier than waiting...), so I can't promise being lightning quick about the response but it'll come.
> 
> Consider this a place mark.
> 
> -B


I'm not sure 2600-2800fps would cause me to revise my opinion much, and it would be at odds with published velocities I've seen. But it would defeat my ".22 Magnum" argument. I'd have to say ".22 Hornet" or something. :mrgreen: I'm eager to see your numbers.

Spacedoggy, I am sorry if my challenging things offends you. If everyone on the board agreed, I doubt it would be very interesting. There's always the ignore feature, though.


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## James NM (Jan 4, 2007)

I think I gotta agree with Mike. Reviews I've read on the fiveseven show velocity around the 2000 fps range. And I've seen the comparison to the ballistics from a.22 mag rifle more than once. Seems to me that's a fair comparison. Even FN's published velocities show ~2000 fps for the 195 & 197.

I don't have anything against the fiveseven, I've even entertained thoughts about buying one. I bet it's a fun pistol to shoot. But for personal protection from a pistol, I'd rather have a 9MM, 357 sig, 38 super, 40, 10MM, ... etc.

Here's a link to Brassfetcher's website with some ballistic tests for the fiveseven & PS90. Every round from the fiveseven was sub 2000fps. It also looks like from his tests that the 5.7 suffers from lack of sufficient penetration and poor bullet integrity.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/5.7x28mm.html


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Mike Barham at Galco said:


> Spacedoggy, I am sorry if my challenging things offends you. If everyone on the board agreed, I doubt it would be very interesting. There's always the ignore feature, though.


I could care less what you think and I do ignore you. It's hard sometimes when I get PM's from people I don't know complaining about you or what an ass etc etc and I just say ignore him. There are know it alls on all boards and as my sig notes I never will lower myself to your level because you will beat me with experience.

Ignore button now on.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

I need to take a better look at my chronograph.

"To cut through body armor the .224-inch-diameter SS190 projectile incorporates a cone-shaped steel penetrator sitting atop an aluminum core surrounded by a steel jacket. Velocity of the 5.7x28mm SS190 ball load from a P90 PDW's 10.2-inch barrel is a respectable 2346 fps. Out of a Five-seveN pistol with 4.8-inch barrel it clocks 2133 fps. Despite the high muzzle velocity recoil is approximately 30 percent less than the 9x19mm. This 5.7x28mm load was specifically designed to defeat a NATO CRISAT target (consisting of a 1.6mm titanium plate with 20 Kevlar folds), and it will--even at 200 meters."

Good review on the firearm found at

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/fnusg_021207/


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## James NM (Jan 4, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> ...Good review on the firearm found at
> 
> http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/fnusg_021207/


That's a good write up. To borrow from Fox News, I think it was "fair and balanced".

Like I said earlier, I bet it's a fun gun to shoot!


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## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

Why even bother with the 5.7 when you can have PK2224? Launches a 53gr bullet at 2230 fps out of a converted Beretta 92. I still think that even that round is useless but it outperforms the 5.7 while chambered in a "common" converted pistol. You might find it interesting.

http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Revolver said:


> Why even bother with the 5.7 when you can have PK2224? Launches a 53gr bullet at 2230 fps out of a converted Beretta 92. I still think that even that round is useless but it outperforms the 5.7 while chambered in a "common" converted pistol. You might find it interesting.
> 
> http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm


Wow! The hole the PK2224 left in that 3/8" steel plate was impressive. Especially next to the .45 and 9mm. rayer: I think the Five SeveN pistol is pretty neat. I don't own one mainly because of the cost but I might down the road. It would be pretty boring around here if we all like the same guns. I personally enjoy the information folks put out about their new purchases. How 'bout some pictures? :smt033


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Revolver said:


> Why even bother with the 5.7 when you can have PK2224? Launches a 53gr bullet at 2230 fps out of a converted Beretta 92. I still think that even that round is useless but it outperforms the 5.7 while chambered in a "common" converted pistol. You might find it interesting.
> 
> http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm


Nice I'll take one of those too


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

The gun is a specialized gun. It was designed as a sidearm to compliment a military carbine. It’s a good gun for penetration. I will keep that in mind when its a primary concern (like defeating body armor). 

I personally like a bullet with weight and proven killing power. .45, .357, .40, 9mm .38. Anticipating your response that the gun has documented kills, so does a Ruger MKII .22lr. 

I think that most of us can agree it’s a large pistol. Of course if you are a cop that’s not a big deal as you can strap it onto your WIDE duty belt in a duty holster. This is a big deal for concealed carry. 

Wow. 20 rounds. I guess us old-timers carrying revolvers with 5-7 rounds are behind the curve? Should we worry that we are under armed?

My point here is as a carry gun, I don’t see the plusses outweighing the minuses. It looks like a fun gun, and if it’s all you have it’s the best carry gun for you. Other than fun, I don’t see how you can reasonably debate its value on any plane over a Glock, 1911, SIG, H&K, Smith.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Old Padawan said:


> Anticipating your response that the gun has documented kills, so does a Ruger MKII .22lr.


Who's response?? All my guns are fun guns except the ones I carry (P99C 9mm and Kel-Tec 32 in front pocket)and if it wasn't so dam hot in Texas I would be carrying a 45. The FN 5.7 is one of my favorite fun guns to shoot. Can't really tell you why but I enjoy it so much. I guess I'm a old timer (feel like one but don't think like one) because my favorite type of gun is a revolver and I can shoot 22's all day.


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> I guess I'm a old timer (feel like one but don't think like one) because my favorite type of gun is a revolver and I can shoot 22's all day.


Please dont say that. I have been strugling with the knowledge that I am becoming an "old timer". I am 42 years old. I cant be an old timer yet. 
I am toying with the idea of transitionong to a K frame revolver
I will sit in the shade with and shoot my MKII *ALL DAY* 
I say what all the time (hearing loss)
I find it increasingly difficult to get a hard focus on the front sight w/o glasses
I have WAY TO MANY stories about shooting that start with "remember that time"


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## Wagon Master (Jun 9, 2007)

I carry the FiveseveN concealed every day all day and feel very confident with it. The light weight and recoil provide comfort and follow-up shot accuracy. I don't know what the circomestances may be if I find myself in a "SITUATION" but I like knowing that I have twenty one very quick and very accurate shots available for most any distances. I especially like the fact that the chance for over penetration is lower than with a bigger caliber. I couldn't forgive myself if I were responsible for injuring or killing an innocent bystander because of over penetration or two much recoil. 

I used to carry a Beretta 92 and I like it, but since I got my FiveseveN I feel that for the many different situations that can arise where deadly force is necessary it is the best "All Around Tool" for the urban life.

I practice all the time and feel more capable and comfortable than when I carried my 92. :smt1099


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

Wagon Master said:


> I used to carry a Beretta 92 and I like it, but since I got my FiveseveN I feel that for the many different situations that can arise where deadly force is necessary it is the best "All Around Tool" for the urban life.
> I practice all the time and feel more capable and comfortable than when I carried my 92. :smt1099


Every person is different in size and thoughts. The gun that works for you "works". I think the key to your statement is the practice. Continued practice combined with quality instruction is the best thing to do regardless of the gun and bullet.
I still dont think I am sold on the 57 being the best "all around tool for urban life". I dont think such a thing exists. At best it would "one of the best" and I would still not see it in that department.
I note your previous gun was a large duty style pistol as well. If you were allready using a dress around gun for concealed carry, the transition would have been easy. Have you tried a compact pistol such as an HK P2000SK, Glock 26,27,33,30,36,29, Walther PPK, 3"1911, J frame revolver for concealed carry?


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## Wagon Master (Jun 9, 2007)

Old Padawan said:


> Every person is different in size and thoughts.
> 
> I like the weight combined with the round capacity and very low recoil of the FiveseveN. I have shot other more compact weapons and enjoy them also but not the recoil. I am an old fart and I would rather not have to fight the recoil in the chaos of armed conflict. I do practice all the time and shot placement at night while shooting off hand and shooting multiple rounds very fast while going to cover when there are bystanders etc, etc, etc, is a potential disaster. For me and my urban life, this is the best all around tool. But as you say, everyone is different, and I respect that.


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## Anxiety. (May 1, 2007)

Charlie said:


> Wow! The hole the PK2224 left in that 3/8" steel plate was impressive. Especially next to the .45 and 9mm. rayer: I think the Five SeveN pistol is pretty neat. I don't own one mainly because of the cost but I might down the road. It would be pretty boring around here if we all like the same guns. I personally enjoy the information folks put out about their new purchases. How 'bout some pictures? :smt033


It was a 3/16" plate not 3/8". But either way I think its very impressive. I'd buy the Five-seveN. But like others say its a little pricey. At least for me.:smt022

Nate


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm kinda itchin for one myself :smt023


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

I started wearing it as a range gun because it is so light even with three magazines and that's a real plus. The other reason is rust. I can't find a spot on it that can rust on the outside of the gun. Love to see you get one shipwreck to compliment your other FN. I'm planning on getting the Beretta PX storm to compliment my CX4.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, Bud's is selling them at a good price right now, but I don't know...

The next gun I wanna get is a Beretta 84/85 Cheetah - Just always wanted one. Not sure if I will get a Five Seven or not.


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

Shipwreck said:


> Well, Bud's is selling them at a good price right now, but I don't know...
> 
> The next gun I wanna get is a Beretta 84/85 Cheetah - Just always wanted one. Not sure if I will get a Five Seven or not.


You might be better off with the Beretta due to the availability and cost of the 5.7x28 ammunition.


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## ArmyCop (May 7, 2006)

I believe Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell has one as his standard issue. 20 round mag's.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

spacedoggy said:


> You might be better off with the Beretta due to the availability and cost of the 5.7x28 ammunition.


Cost, yea. EVen at a good price, it's more (although, not much more than 380 ammo) - but availability - heck, I have 2100 rounds of the stuff for my PS90. So, I'm good there :mrgreen:


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## JimmySays (Jun 8, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?


I think the French are really good with the potato gun, Belgians I'm not so sure.:smt043


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## Anxiety. (May 1, 2007)

ArmyCop said:


> I believe Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell has one as his standard issue. 20 round mag's.


Yep it's a Five-seveN. I've read all the Splinter Cell books and its definitely what Sam uses.


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

JimmySays said:


> I think the French are really good with the potato gun, Belgians I'm not so sure.:smt043


How many French soldiers does it take to defend Paris?
Dont know never been tried.

Why are there so many trees along the road in Paris?
The Germans like to park in the shade.


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## James NM (Jan 4, 2007)

Old Padawan said:


> How many French soldiers does it take to defend Paris?
> Dont know never been tried.
> 
> Why are there so many trees along the road in Paris?
> The Germans like to park in the shade.


:smt082:smt082:smt082:smt082:smt082:smt082:smt082


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## SAC45 (Jul 25, 2007)

Hi, new to the thread. Been reading these posts and see the same "conversations" I have seen other places....ballistics, gelatin, cost, size, speed, etc. Much of the information these conversations are based on are old (ie. no recent updates), static (chronographs, etc), and superficial. I have personally spoken with more than one police officer regarding a subject hit by the 5.7 X28mm. There were no doubts. One exclaimed that the M.E. asked him "What did you shoot him with..?" in surprise of the damage and differences from other witnessed wound cavities. Does this mean it's an absolute stopper....no. But several gents have survived multiple gunshots by .357, .45acp, etc. as well. Does this mean they are not? No. The difficulty with the 5.7 is real world stats. Not enough people have been shot by them, especially the pistol. Many agencies have moved up to the .40, yet some still swear by the 9mm. "Evidence" abounds to surround both arguments. Many administrators do not allow a .45ACP or hollowpoint ammo because of reported, erroneous conclusions....many made by trainers.

Regarding gelatin.....I wouldn't hang my hat on any of that data. More than one round has performed poor with gelatin only to later due quite well in living tissue. If you're shooting someone with an interior temperature consistent with gelatin, they're already dead. Let me know when 98 degree gelatin comes out.

Comparisons to .22mag is also only through "measurable" data. Although similar in numeric performance, the bullets are designed differently both physically and in which they are scheduled to react ballistically.

More people are killed with smaller calibers than any other. Small calibers do work, depending on the circumstance. The number one consideration for defense is shot placement. Period. A 5.7 to the heart will out due a .45acp to the arm just about every time. If the 5.7 allows you to place multiple, rapid shots on target; why not use it? If you are able to do the same with a 45ACP, that is different you easily have a choice and most likely would choose the larger round. If you can't, I wouldn't rule out the 5.7. Many LEO's stay with 9mm for this very reason....they hit better with it.

The FN should not be elevated to "THE" firearm when comparing. It is "A" firearm, with several shooter/ballistic/design benefits. It also has unknowns and negatives much like many other firearms. I would not discount the Tac Teams, foreign or domestic, that have chosen to use it. They generally do not use crap firearms of any sort. If the FN was the price of a Glock, and the ammo the same, these conversations wouldn't take place. They would be all over, and there would be plenty of real life data to look back on. Likewise, if a Glock was the price of an FN, they wouldn't have such a large share of the market, regardless of performance. 

Our department had one for T&E and we found it accurate, dependable, simple, and had "0" failures of any kind. I would say a weapon that is easy to shoot (fast and accurate), and dependable should definitely be in consideration. I wouldn't necessarily pick a .380 over my .45ACP, but I wouldn't want to be shot by a .380 either!

Place a 5.7 in the chest or the pumpkin, and I would say doubts would subside quickly. I wouldn't worry about lethality, performance, reliability, etc. This one has it. Personal preferences should be more of a factor here. As an LEO/SWAT'er that carries all the time, I have no issue with the FN. I'd carry it in a heartbeat and feel confident, even without the AP rounds.

Sorry for the length on my $.02


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Hey, that was a great post. :smt023:smt023


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## stormbringerr (May 22, 2007)

im pretty sure i`ll pass on this 5.7 gun.ive shot it a few times,a friend has one.for the price i would go ahead and get a HK 2000.
i think if the length of the FN was an inch and a half shorter it would be a lot more popular.at least with me it would.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Where would one buy the absolute least expensive 5.7 pistol? And I wonder how cheap that would be? My recollection of advertisements I have see puts it at about $750 ish at best. :smt102


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Charlie said:


> Where would one buy the absolute least expensive 5.7 pistol? And I wonder how cheap that would be? My recollection of advertisements I have see puts it at about $750 ish at best. :smt102


Bud's price for $779 is the cheapest I have seen it (that is what I paid) - and, that's purchased thru the contact at our site. On their site (Bud's site), it is $20 more.

My shop has one for $930. Gander Mountain wants over $1000 for it so they can rip people off.

I have seen them around $809 or so at Houston gun shows.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

I really, really want one but I'm just not yet ready to shell out $800 + for it. :smt076


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

I just got back from a gun show here in Tyler and the cheapest I found one for was 779. When ever I shop on Bud's I add $50 to their price for shipping and FFL paperwork. Bud's had the best prices a while back but it seems they are getting more expensive lately.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Yea, I paid the $25 for shipping and the $25 for the FFL fee - but there was no sales tax. So, I still came out ahead.


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

Thanks for the updates. I guess it's $800 + for now. :smt076


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, it is my understanding that whole sale is $756.


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## Beginner's Luck (Jul 8, 2007)

One wholesaler has it listed today for $836.85. I know that they have gone up recently, so that may not be too far above average wholesale now.


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## jeffie (Aug 5, 2007)

we make them here in Belgium, and we are not allout to shoot them, strickly military and police forces
:smt076:smt076:smt076
jeff


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## Charlie (May 13, 2006)

*Hey Ship........*

Now that you've had it for a while what do you think about it? You've probably got some good range time in by now. Give us a report and some pictures. :smt023


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## spacedoggy (May 11, 2006)

jeffie said:


> we make them here in Belgium, and we are not allout to shoot them, strickly military and police forces
> :smt076:smt076:smt076
> jeff


That sucks but thank you for coming out with such a great piece of work and start making more ammo so you can flood the market so we can buy it dirt cheap. Just a suggestion.


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## dallaswood43 (Jan 13, 2008)

*arguing over calibers*

yes the time honored tradition of arguing over a caliber's usefulness/effectiveness. fact is you would not want to be shot with any of them. if someone breaks into your home and you put two or three in them of any caliber they will not be coming back for more. and as far as "justifying" the purchase. not many of us will ever have a life or death situation that "justifies" our firearms. sometimes they are just really sweet to shoot and own.


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## Liko81 (Nov 21, 2007)

spacedoggy said:


> I need to take a better look at my chronograph.
> 
> "To cut through body armor the .224-inch-diameter SS190 projectile incorporates a cone-shaped steel penetrator sitting atop an aluminum core surrounded by a steel jacket. Velocity of the 5.7x28mm SS190 ball load from a P90 PDW's 10.2-inch barrel is a respectable 2346 fps. Out of a Five-seveN pistol with 4.8-inch barrel it clocks 2133 fps. Despite the high muzzle velocity recoil is approximately 30 percent less than the 9x19mm. This 5.7x28mm load was specifically designed to defeat a NATO CRISAT target (consisting of a 1.6mm titanium plate with 20 Kevlar folds), and it will--even at 200 meters."
> 
> ...


Only problem is the SS190 is the hardened-tip AP round, and illegal for civilians to possess. That's the round the guns were designed for, and the "ball" and expanding rounds available for civilians (the expanders, oddly enough, are illegal for military use according to the Hague Convention) are ballistically inferior to traditional handgun and even rifle caliber cartridges widely used by civilians.

Thus, ammunition can be suitable for humans but not animals. How many deer wear a bulletproof vest? How many soldiers do? The 5.7 round is more effective through body armor than most other handgun rounds by sacrificing everything for penetration, but because it relies so highly on penetration it is ballistically inferior in practically every other respect to other rounds which balance penetration and permanent cavity at the expense of armor penetration, and therefore only of greater overall utility in an environment where your adversary is likely to be armored. It's a wartime round, not a personal defense or hunting round.

So, you're both right. The Five-seveN with AP cartridges beats the 9mm and even the .45 on the battlefield, however as AP cartridges are not available stateside it is inferior to both calibers on the street as a police or civilian sidearm.

P.S. - A NATO CRISAT target is not all that. NIJ Standard IV, which is issued to FBI and SWAT counterterrorism tac teams, is far better; it'll protect against a 30-06 armor-piercing round travelling up to 2900fps. That's a bullet with the same penetrating tip, about 7x the mass, and at least 500fps more velocity. A CRISAT target is roughly Standard IIIA, which is designed to stop a non-AP handgun round up to 240 grains at 1400fps (which is up to and including .44 Magnum). Designing an armor-piercing bullet that will defeat a vest not designed to defend against AP is rather pointless; show me a bullet that defeats a vest designed to stop other AP rounds and I'll be impressed.


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## Mach One Man (Jan 11, 2008)

*Free Ammo*

If you purchase a five seven between 12-1-2007 & 3-31-2008 FN will send you the first 200 rounds free! Just print the form off their website, complete it & attach bill of sale & a copy of your BATFE form 4473 & fax or mail it to them. Saves you about $90! I don't see any other manufacturers offering the first 200 rounds for free. January 1st did bring a price increase but some dealers will sell it at the old prices. I've seen them range from $850 to $1275! There have been a few used ones on forums for around $750 with extra's. I paid $885 for mine shipped off Gunbroker. Ammo is $18-$20 but $24 + tax in local retailers. Can't shoot it indoors at my club so waiting for the weather to break! :smt023


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?


Mike (and others),

A little Belgian company called FN makes the Browning Hi Power. Its the handgun John Moses Browning designed after a little number we like to call the 1911. The FN factory in South Carolina, FN Manufacturing LLC, has the US government contract for M16, M249 and M240. So I wouldn't dismiss the Belgians when it comes to guns... or chocolate (their love of mayo on french fries is another matter).

For a number of years, my best buddy, lover, mother and father was the FN L1A1 (FAL) until the politicians tried to get me killed by issuing the motherF'ing piece of sh^t jamo-matic SA80. Yes, a FAL is heavier than an M4, but when you need to, you can buttstroke without damaging the rifle.

I can't say I like the five-seven, but it seems a perfect partner if you already have a P90.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

Liko81 said:


> show me a bullet that defeats a vest designed to stop other AP rounds and I'll be impressed.












Allow me to introduce you to the FRAG-12 fin-stabilized High Explosive Fragmenting Antipersonnel *12 gauge shotgun* round.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

I first saw a 5.7 ps90 18 months ago. The local Homeland Security people have them.
i saw a 5.7 pistol today and i came home and read up on a lot of info i could find and then i read all of these threads.
i see no need for a civilian to own the pistol except if they have the carbine.
the round was made for NATO in 2000 for the ps90 carbine. 
The cartridges they have are far better than what is allowed for civilians. The mag for the ps90 holds 50 rounds - 50 rounds of bullets that the civilians can not get is why the LE personnel have it - the pistol was an after thought - 
i agree with mike - there are better handguns for consideration over the 5.7


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## Nastynewt (Jan 22, 2007)

But does it have a low bore axis?


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## blankcheque (May 27, 2008)

Guns are like a fine tool.

I wouldn't use a screw driver as a hammer. And I wouldn't use a five-7 as a defensive gun.

It's too light, it doesn't punch a big enough hole, and if I've got some 300 pound Polynesian eyes and nostrils flaring like a bull ready to charge in a drug fueled rage I'd never use it as such.

It's an offensive cartridge.

It's got incredible accuracy at distance for a sidearm. And it's got amazing penetration at range. Something a rimfire .22 wouldn't have that you'd sling in a holster. And before the round was completely neutered here in the U.S. (Thanks California.) it was an incredibly lethal firearm that would leave no room for argument at it's potential for serious bodily harm.

It's a great tool for what it's intended for, killing at range, with a compact weapon that can be slapped on your hip.

I just don't understand the debate behind this gun, and why it causes so many bitter arguments. Maybe it's a distinctive mindset with some shooters who look at it as a funky bullet that's nothing more then a way to make money off their exclusive built round. Maybe it's the mindset engrained as they became shooters, and gun owners themselves.


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## khellandros66 (Oct 1, 2007)

This pistol is featured in the Metal Gear Solid game. Its great for CQC you can nail a target with spot on accuracy from quite a distance too. This thing holds some major ammo in a small arm, 20rds per mag.

If FN was really smart they make a smaller carbine, similar to say a TEC-9 with this round in mind.

Bobby


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

khellandros66 said:


> If FN was really smart they make a smaller carbine, similar to say a TEC-9 with this round in mind.
> 
> Bobby


Well FN was pretty smart. They make the P90 PDW, and it shoots the 5.7mm round, the same as in the FiveseveN pistol.
Here's a little vid of the P90 for ya. FN P90 VIDEO

Zhur


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## Waldo Pepper (Aug 11, 2007)

Well I have stepped over to the dark side and bought the Five Seven and so far it is serving the purpose quite well and it's not much more expensive the 22 WMR ammo and lot better round. 

The 40 gr BT round sure is a stopper of feral dogs at 50 yards or a tad more. And at 25 yards I can put 20 rounds in a 10" pie plate in about the same time I can do 6 from my S&W 610-3 10 mm with 6.5" barrel.

I had to leave the hard slamming slides of my 10 mm automatics behind because of the arthritis in my hands and get something more then a 22 WMR with the ability to be able to stand to practice once a month or so. My 4 10 mm's are gone now, S&W 1006, 1086, G29 and Tanfoglio have all been sold or traded off. 

My DW 357 and S&W 610-3 will stay as they do not bother my hand as yet. The DW 357 is like shooting a S&W K22 except lot louder and the 610-3 10 mm is my target gun that I shoot LSWC in and usually have only loaded to about 1000 fps and with that big heavy N frame those are hardly even felt. I sometimes think the slide hammering home is the problem, not recoil as we would normally think.


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## Slowfire (Dec 22, 2008)

Benzbuilder said:


> The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.


Same here, sometimes you find the deals out there. This baby comes out at special occasions.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

We have a couple of sponsors at the FN Forum who have some sales on the stuff now, if you buy in bulk.


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## Red-5 (Jan 15, 2009)

dallaswood43 said:


> as far as "justifying" the purchase. not many of us will ever have a life or death situation that "justifies" our firearms. sometimes they are just really sweet to shoot and own.


That's exactly why I bought one. Let's face it, many people own a multiple firearms, many they will never, ever use as a carry weapon. I scan the different forums on here and see people spend $4000 for a 1911 for range/tournament use, these guns will never be used for carry. Does this mean they were silly for buying them?

I have carry firearms, but that does not mean that I should stop purchasing another gun does it, just because I may not ever carry it?


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## mako72401 (Jun 15, 2009)

I picked up a 5.7 about 6 months ago. Ammo price was a little bit of a negative aspect at first, but actually it hasn't gon up nearly as much (percentage) as decent ammo for a 9, 40, or 45 has. Love the way the pistol shoots and the recoil is barely noticable.


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## Bukwild CTO2 (Feb 10, 2008)

I would like to shoot one before laying down the loot. Range does not have one in the rental cabinet and probably wont for a while. Might have to see if I know someone who has one before commenting.


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## steelontarget (Apr 28, 2009)

*5.7*

I'm not sure where people here are getting their info but:
5.7 ammo (the blue box) is balistic tip jacketed hollow point. You are complaining about a box of 50 for $22?
5.7 is in no way anything like a 22mag. Tests have shown it to crate a wound cavity much like a 9mm.
5.7 is very accurate and has great range with little drop.
5.7 YEP even the civilian ammo will go through some body armor.

So... you can guy a handgun that is every bit as well made as other poly handguns for around the same price as some (HK, Sig etc) that is made by a company with a great rep that provides most of the small arms for our military. The gun is light, holds 20 rounds (30 with small mag extension) has little recoil, super accurate, long range, defeats body armor, does damage similar to a 9mm and the ammo costs less then most other normal rounds for JHP.

Seems the facts disagree with most of the posts.


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## redpenguin01 (Apr 16, 2009)

It's still legal to buy the AP bullets as a civilian from private sellers right? I've seen a couple auction sites where they were selling preban 5.7 AP bullets.


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## mako72401 (Jun 15, 2009)

I have had a 5.7 for about 1 year, and love it. Not my carry gun of choice just because of size and how I have to dress. But.. Still a fine weapon. 

Like anyone on here would ever just own 1 gun anyway.


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