# Golden Saber vs Gold dot HP



## nukehayes

So I've been trying to determine which will be the better self defense ammo for a Glock 19 in 9mm. I cannot find any websites that I can compare the Golden saber to the Gold dot. The remington Golden saber is sounding like the best choice to me right now. Do you guys have any imput for me? Or what do you guys carry for SD? Very open to all suggestions. For SD ammo, I really don't care about price, just not too outrageous.


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## Benzbuilder

I carry Corbon 200 gr JHP .45 +P in my Kimber. I have no FTF FTE with this ammo. i have recovered expanded bullets, they have great weight retention. they only lost an average of 7 gr. Mi advice is to buy several different types and see what works best for your pistol. Sometimes they prefer one brand over another.


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## Shipwreck

In 9mm, always carried Federal Hydrashok. Been satisfied with it.

Recently, I started carrying the Whinchester White Box JHP personal protection round. Saw some states - it performs about the same as all of the other named brand rounds. And, I can get 50 for the price of 20 of the others. I am satisified with it.

Truthfully - any of the name brand hollow points will work well enough. Shot placement is what counts. If not in the right place, 1 round of anything isn't that effective.


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## nukehayes

Shipwreck said:


> Shot placement is what counts. If not in the right place, 1 round of anything isn't that effective.


Very true, yet I am sacrificing and buying the 9mm version over the .40 due to ammo costs. I would feel better with a .40 or .45, so I want the best 9mm load that can resemble that.


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## Shipwreck

If U wanna start approaching the most power, then U want +p - although, I wouldn't recommend a heavy diet of +p ammo. It can wear on a gun.


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## nukehayes

Roger that.:smt1099


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## Stephen A. Camp

Hello, sir.

Either the Golden Saber or the Gold Dot would be a good choice in my opinion. If I remember correctly, NYPD is using the 124-gr. Gold Dot +P and I _think_ that the NYC Transit Police use the standard pressure version. Either will expand reliably from what I've seen in my own informal tests as well as those pulled out of animals.

The Golden Saber also expands reliably for me in the calibers I've tried in in: 9mm, .380, .357 Magnum, and .45 ACP.

The main complaint against the Golden Sabers is that the jacket can separate from the lead core now and again. This seems to show up more when water is the test expansion medium than either gelatin, wetpack, or tissue. In my experience, the jacket will usually be within 2 or 3" of the lead core.

This is not a concern with the Gold Dot as its soft jacket is chemically bonded to the core of the bullet.









_Though not a 9mm, this handloaded 45-caliber 230-gr. Golden Saber expanded well and penetrated nicely in a whitetail deer. The jacket did separate. It didn't seem to make much difference to the deer. The jacket was a couple of inches from the recovered bullet. The bullet is pretty chewed up because bone was struck on the entry._









_Here is another view of the same bullet and jacket._









_Fired from a Browning Hi Power into super-saturated newsprint, this 147-gr. Gold Dot expanded nicely. This pretty typical of what I have seen with this bullet as well as the 124 and 124-gr. +P. In the Hi Power, CZ-75, and Glock 17 & 26, all three Gold Dot loads mentioned were reliable._









_Here's the 9mm Remington Golden Saber in the 147-gr. weight after being fired into water from a Hi Power. The jacket did not separate in this instance. For me, it seems to happen about 20% of the time in 9mm when firing into water, less in other media._

I do not have a Glock 19, but here are the average velocities from my Glock 17. They are based on 10 shots fired 10' from the chronograph.

Speer 124-gr. Gold Dot: 1125 ft/sec
Speer 124-gr. Gold Dot +P: 1190 ft/sec
Remington 124-gr. Golden Saber: 1142 ft/sec
Remington 124-gr. Golden Saber +P: 1187 ft/sec

As you can see, there is not much difference with regard to velocity between either company's std or +P loads.

Were I choosing between these two, I would go first and foremost with reliability. Assuming both fed/extracted/ejected with 100% reliability, I would then go with the one that grouped best for me. If both were satisfactory and I didn't have a preference for whatever reason, I'd then go with which was less costly. Were I using a lighter than normal striker spring in my Glock, I would go with the Remington as CCI/Speer primers are a bit harder. This of course assumes that the Remington was reliable.

Best and good luck.


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## Shipwreck

I think Golden Saber also makes a different, "bonded" version of their round that does not seperate like that.


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## Stephen A. Camp

Hello. Yes, you are correct. I have not yet tried any of those personally but am told that the bullet/jacket separation is eliminated albeit at _slightly_ less expansion.

Best.


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## nukehayes

Wow, thanks a lot Mr Camp. The pics are great. Like you said, as long as they both feed reliablly, I'll probably go with the cheaper of the two. By the way, did that deer drop instantly or did it run off?


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## Stephen A. Camp

Hello. It staggered him and he dropped, but he stood up and I popped him again.

During the same time-frame I shot one with a 147-gr. 9mm Golden Saber bullet in a .38 Super handload which pushed the bullet at just under 1200 ft/sec. This one was shot broadside at close range, perhaps 10 yards.

At the shot, it jumped and then ran approx. 10 to 15 yards before collapsing.

I did not recover the bullet. It was a through-and-through broadside hit that clipped the top of the heart. No jacket was found inside the animal; it is possible that it was there and I missed it, but I don't really think so.

So far as I can remember, these are the only two deer I've shot using Golden Saber bullets. I've shot far more with Hornady XTP's, which despite their less-aggressive expansion seem to "stop" just as well...at least on Texas whitetails and other critters.

Best.


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## Baldy

Now there's some info you can take to the bank Nuke.


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## Stephen A. Camp

Hello and thank you, Baldy, for the kind words.

I just recalled a hunting incident and while it is most directly related to hunting, I _think_ that it might be at least tangentially related to self-defense situations which is what I think the original poster in querying these ammunition types for.

A few years ago, I shot a fair Texas whitetail doe with a handloaded 200-gr. XTP using a 5" DW Patriot .45 ACP. (Understand that I was taking part in a state-sanctioned deer management program and didn't take any shots there were beyond but a few yards. My self-imposed limit was no longer than 30 and with all conditions perfect. If something just didn't feel right, I didn't fire and I passed on more than I shot. FWIW, none were lost and the deer in this scenario went the farthest of any. Others hit with the same load, either collapsed, kicked, and died, or ran but a few yards before folding up.









_This doe ran approximately 75 to 85 yards or so after being hit. You can see the entrance wound. The bullet quartered rearward and passed through both lungs but struck nothing else of importance. The handloaded 200-gr. XTP gave a completely penetrating wound and was loaded to just under 1000 ft/sec._

At the shot, the deer jumped and ran off. I waited about 5 mins before climbing down from my blind and easily followed the blood trail.

I found the deer and she was down. She didn't look at me, but I could see her breathing. I took out my knife and was attempting to straddle it and cut its throat when she delivered a quick kick from a hind leg which struck me on top of my right foot's instep. It hurt so danged bad I wanted to cry. I used the .45 instead of the knife. I still admire that deer to this day. She gave it all she had for as long as she could. I was in fact her enemy and she did her dead-level best to injure or stop me.

Deer are not considered dangerous game. I certainly don't but I do _respect_ them. I "always" make sure they're dead before getting right up next to them...except when I didn't and this was such a time and I was reminded of a lesson I'd overlooked.

So how does this apply to self-defense?

To me, the shot felt good and appeared to be a hard hit. It was not. I misaimed by a few inches. All the animal got was a case of instant double-pneumonia. The lungs did not instantly collapse, I think.

Consider the much discussed "solid torso shot." The torso covers a lot of territory on a human predator. The vitals are certainly there, but so is much that is not instantly or quickly incapacitating.

I was anxious to field-dress the deer and get back to hunting. I didn't check to make sure the animal was dead. It appeared to be and I assumed that it was. I paid for it with a very painful bruise that lasted several days. What if I had been in a self-defense shooting and was "anxious" to call 911 or get some help? I might very well have lowered my guard in some way and the downed felon might have been able to do something nasty. This incident reminded me to keep my wits about me and I think this applies in spades in the _apparent_ aftermath of winning a deadly force encounter. The bad guy might be down but not out.

It seems to me that we should go with "good" ammunition to be sure, but must keep in mind the other aspects to surviving a deadly force scenario.

Best.


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