# 7 Reasons Cops Choose 9mm over .40



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

7 Reasons Why Cops Choose the 9mm Over the .40


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I found this to be another interesting article over the recent debate of caliber choice. The first reason listed in this article is the very reason most all of us believe is the most important of all. Placement.

It is true, that while those who shoot the .40 S&W accurately, few shoot the 9mm less accurately, and those who do have trouble shooting the .40 almost ALWAYS shoot the 9mm more accurately. The article states this is true at any distance and even more so when *repeat shots are needed*. "Shot placement is THE MOST CRITICAL factor in stopping the threat, and the 9mm does nothing but enhance that ability."

It should be noted that this article is related to police officers, but it can only hold true for civilian personal defense as well. At any rate, I thought it was an interesting read.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Is there a study out there comparing accuracy at typical 'point and shoot' (because there ain't time to draw a bead) distances - i.e. 20' on in?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Yeah, actually there are. Search kinesthetic shooting. That's actually the whole point, I believe, behind getting back to the 9mm. Anyone, given ample time to "draw a bead" can be accurate. But in high stress, life and death situations, no one does. That is when the follow up shots mean the most.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kin...icrosoft:en-us&q=kinesthetic+shooting&spell=1


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Normally the law enforcement agency chooses what weapons the officers will carry....

Many of the 7 reasons relate to cost savings which plays a big part in what type weapon the agency goes with..........


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Accountants play a huge role in what an agency purchases...


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## Lee Hunter (May 25, 2011)

NGIB said:


> Accountants play a huge role in what an agency purchases...


That's a sad fact.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

BTW, I are an Accountant so I knew this to be true...


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## Cz75bglock17gen4tns (Oct 2, 2014)

The 9mm is the best cartridge, just use jhp.....it will get the job done. Added advantage is the higher magazine capacity of the 9mm. Not all person are good shooters!


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Cz75bglock17gen4tns said:


> The 9mm is the best cartridge


I really dislike blanket statements. The 9mm is best for what?


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I think what he is trying to say is that for general purposes the 9mm is the overall best cartridge for most people. Like the article pointed out, even those who shoot the .40 accurately shoot the 9mm more accurately. 

Also, the science of ballistics is what it is. There just isn't enough of a difference in ballistics btwn each caliber to make a notable difference, which only proves that placement is far more important than caliber. The 9mm is a big and strong enough round to work just as well as any other round on the market for defense, whether it be law enforcement or civilian. The importance of training is paramount for the ability to place a critical hit shot under stress. Are there some who are just as accurate with a .40 or .45 as they are with a 9mm? Sure! Anything is possible, but that isn't going to be the case for the overwhelming majority. Many may think they are as accurate, but put to the test, I'd bet they prove they are more accurate with the 9mm in most cases, especially under stress.

As for accounting choosing what pistol the department goes with, that may be true to some extent. Pistol isn't caliber, and while I understand the avg 9mm pistol will be less expensive than other caliber offerings, most LEAs use a Glock of some caliber. And with the majority of LEAs using the .40, it is safe to say that there is no difference in cost btwn the Glock 17 and Glock 22. But there are an awful lot of agencies whose accounting department has elected to buy off on a .40 or .45 caliber pistol, even with pistols other than a Glock, so I really don't think that argument holds much weight. The truth is most LEAs currently use either a .40 or .45, but the truth is that many are starting to go back to the 9mm. I really don't think they are lying about the reasons why. And I'm equally sure the respective accounting depts are happier about that also. We all know that if the big boss wants something, accounting ok's it. 

Several years ago the Chattanooga PD transitioned from their S&W 9mm to a S&W 45. There was a huge deal made over it b/c of the cost to need, etc., but the CPD went with the .45. I know for a fact that Paulding Co GA sheriff's office just recently transitioned from their Glock .40 to a Glock .45, but the GSP just went back to the Glock 17 9mm and a Glock 42 on the ankle from a Glock .45 GAP. It all boils down to what the respective agency wants, and more LEAs are starting to transition to the 9mm. I believe it really is for the reasons this article points out...at least, that is what I'm told by other articles and LEAs/LEOs. Why does everything have to be about accounting? From what I understand, they LEAs/LEOs just want to do their jobs better and more efficiently, which would include their officers being able to shoot well in a gun fight. It helps in a lot of ways. Officer retention (meaning they aren't killed), lessens the chance of injuring/killing an innocent bystander, saves on cost for wear on the equipment and cost on ammunition, just to name a few. 

Can it be that they are actually getting smarter from experience and coming to their senses? I think so. Sure, it could be political and all that, but it could just as easily be all about the reasons stated as well. No one can disprove it.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

And the word is the US Army wants to leave the 9mm, likely for .45 ACP. Probably won't happen anytime soon, if ever, though.

"Best" is always subjective and opinionated IMHO. I have nothing against any modern pistol caliber and I own guns in most of them. I keep .40s on hand mainly because during shortages there is always .40 on the shelf and 9mm is nowhere to be found...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I think one of the reasons the Army wants to go back to the .45 is b/c they are just trying to justify wanting to change pistols. It has been 25 years with the M9 now, and a lot of other armies are getting new guns, so the Army is saying "I want a new one too". 

The "best" is a GP best. It is qualified with a reasonable explanation being that "in most cases" the 9mm is the best round for the following reasons. Shootability, cost, ease of use, etc. It isn't to say that the 9mm is the best handgun cartridge around. I mean, I would not use a 9mm for game hunting, but I would use the 10mm. So in that regard, the 10mm is best. But in context of defense, it seems perhaps the 9mm is the best over all due to the reasons stated. The problem is there are too many who actually believe one caliber (in and of itself) is better than the other. That isn't the case. The 9mm isn't the best round b/c it is better than the .45. When head to head, each bullet has its respective place, but when you factor in all the reasons why LEOs are going back to a 9mm, it seems pretty clear that for all those reasons, the 9mm is the best. Take any of those reasons away, and the pool becomes a little less clear. 

I've seen everything cleaned out in shortages. Ive seen 9mm gone while other calibers were available, and I've seen the .40 gone when all others were ots as well. There is no question that the 9mm is the most commonly used cartridge, and that is b/c it is cheaper than the rest. Right now it is plentiful, and it is cheaper. But when LEAs buy, they buy in bulk and that is where the bigger savings come in. Not always, but a lot of the time. 

Bottom line is that it's not that the 9mm bullet is better than anything else. It's what can be done with it in the avg defense situation that sets it apart, and when you factor in all those reasons, it comes out on top. When it comes down to life/death, I'm using whatever I can get my hands on whether it be a kitchen knife or a 12 gage, but when you have time to prepare, train, etc., I think most will find the 9mm the best choice in most situations. Not all! But in most. Some go with a .380 b/c the recoil is better for arthritis. Some live by the .45 b/c it is a .45, but I think it is clear that the overwhelming majority of professionals across the globe use the 9mm. Not b/c the 9mm is THE best bullet made, but b/c given the parameters, it is the best "choice" available.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> I think one of the reasons the Army wants to go back to the .45 is b/c they are just trying to justify wanting to change pistols. It has been 25 years with the M9 now, and a lot of other armies are getting new guns, so the Army is saying "I want a new one too".


I work for the Army (in financial management) and I seriously doubt they are looking "just because". Our current funding is crap and it's getting worse so no senior leader is going to advocate spending unless it makes at least some sense. My SIL served 3 combat tours in the sandbox and he's told me the 9mm is not loved at all among real combat forces. This being said, to the soldier a handgun is merely something to use until they find another rifle.

At the end of the day the best caliber is:

A. The caliber you're told to use for the task at hand.

B. The caliber you shoot best for the task at hand.

I have carried a .45 ACP for years and will likely not change.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

NGIB said:


> I work for the Army (in financial management) and I seriously doubt they are looking "just because". Our current funding is crap and it's getting worse so no senior leader is going to advocate spending unless it makes at least some sense. My SIL served 3 combat tours in the sandbox and he's told me the 9mm is not loved at all among real combat forces. This being said, to the soldier a handgun is merely something to use until they find another rifle...


Well, like I said, I think "one" of the reasons the Army wants to change is to justify wanting (needing) a larger round for the troops. I also think the main reason the Army has not replaced the M9, going to a .45, is b/c it just doesn't make sense to change handguns just for a larger round. I too have been told that the 9mm is a "peashooter" or "POS" by some field operators. Those who have used the new CQBP "LOVE" it, but it is all subjective. It is a proven that the 9mm is an effective round. A .45 to the shoulder is not going to stop an advancing troop better than a shot to the face with a 9mm. I once heard a SEAL say "a lot of people claim the 9mm isn't an effective round, but tell me that after I've put two through your heart". The Navy SEALs and other specops soldiers can use whatever they want, and the majority use a 9mm. Why? B/c it is an effective defense round. They fight with their rifle, like you said. No soldier wants a pistol until he has no rifle and it's UH OH time. Then they would use a rock if need be.

I served 15 years in the Navy. When I joined, we used the 1911 and EVERYBODY complained about going to the 9mm. I didn't. The 1911s we had were so old they rattled like you wouldn't believe, and it was near to impossible to hit anything with them. Sure, they could have easily replaced the 1911s with newer models, but they chose to go to the M9 9mm. Wonder why. Could it be for the reasons mentioned in this article? Maybe I'm just spitballing...


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

What makes 9mm effective in the civilian world is ammo (bullet) design. The military is required to use FMJ (a few "operators" have options) so they do not benefit at all from the advances in that regard. 

You're obviously a fan of 9mm and there's nothing wrong with that. There's room for everybody at the table...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

NGIB said:


> At the end of the day the best caliber is:
> 
> A. The caliber you're told to use for the task at hand.
> 
> ...


This sort of goes against what you told the cz guy in my other thread, CZ75 vs Sig P226. Your last statement quoted above is the only concrete statement made. The other two are just as subjective as anything anyone has said. It is your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. It should also be noted that I have no problem with you having your opinion. It's yours, after all. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with you choosing to carry a .45 ACP. But that isn't the issue.

The point is that the best caliber is the caliber you shoot best in all situations, and in most cases, for most people, that caliber is going to be the 9mm. Now, again, that is not to say that the 9mm is THE BEST round out there. There are conditions that come with it being the best GP defense round. This article points out seven reasons police officers choose the 9mm over the .40 caliber. It isn't an indictment on you for choosing to carry a .45 ACP. It isn't saying that the .45 ACP isn't an effective round. There is a specific context in which it states very reasonable reasons why police officers choose a 9mm over a .40 cal.

I would prefer that YOU shoot what YOU think YOU can shoot best. But I would be willing to bet that if you compared the two side by side, in stressful shooting courses, you would get better scores with a 9mm. That doesn't mean you should put your .45 down. Not at all! By all means, don't change! But like I said, this article has nothing to do with what you choose to carry.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

I really detest the word "best". As far as my statements, it was A or B, my carrying a .45 was just a comment.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Right. Well, try to keep in mind that there is always a "best" in the context of specified parameters.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

NGIB said:


> What makes 9mm effective in the civilian world is ammo (bullet) design. The military is required to use FMJ (a few "operators" have options) so they do not benefit at all from the advances in that regard.
> 
> *You're obviously a fan of 9mm* and there's nothing wrong with that. There's room for everybody at the table...


Actually, I like all the rounds mentioned. I would prefer to carry a .45 ACP, and in some situations I have. It's just that after research, and the given parameters, I choose the 9mm b/c it makes the most sense.

To my knowledge, all military troops are supposed to use FMJ. Although there is some variance in the 9mm vs the 45 ACP, there still isn't enough to warrant citing definitively that the .45 is THE BEST round. It all still boils down to shot placement, which is why operators are more comfortable using a 9mm, IMHO. They are aware of what they can do with it, and that it really doesn't matter what you're using in most cases as far as the actual caliber is concerned. A 9mm is as effective as a .45 when it is placed in a vital part of the body. Outside that the .45 really is no more effective than the 9mm.

Now, when you change the general dynamics of the situation, one round will have a distinct advantage over another. But in the realm of "defense", it isn't as important what round you use as it is where you can place the round you use.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Ok, you win, your opinions are obviously better than mine...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Now come on bruh...seriously? You have valid opinions. We're discussing our opinions and that's good! It's ok if we differ on some. I think we'd agree on most, and I really think we agree more on this than not.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Still if I'm not mistaken, most police agencies at the state and local levels issue .40S&W caliber pistols to their officers. I know one county close to mine that issues the M&P 45 to their people.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

To my knowledge, this is true. The .40 is still the most widely used caliber in law enforcement. I don't know if we will ever see an overwhelming majority go back to the 9mm. The FBI and DEA issue a Glock .40, but if trainees can't qualify with the .40, they are issued a Glock 9mm. After some time, I think the agent can choose to carry what they want from a list of approved pistols. I know some of the local departments issue a 9mm, but after a probationary period officers are free to choose from an approved list of pistols in calibers ranging from 9mm to .45 ACP.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Seriously, I gave up when you said there's no difference when using FMJ ammo.

A .45 ACP FMJ weighs 230gr and makes a .45 hole; a 9mm weighs 115-124gr and makes a .36 hole - pretty significant difference if the shot placement is identical.

I shot bowling pins for many years and I used to laugh at the folks using 9mm (even with JHPs) as they just couldn't knock the pins off the table consistently. I used 230gr FMJs and won my share of matches. A shooter using a 9mm NEVER won a match and many were great shooters. I came in 2nd with a Sig P229 in .40 once.

No, bowling pins are not bad guys but it does show the effect of kinetic energy on a target...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

NGIB said:


> Seriously, I gave up when you said there's no difference when using FMJ ammo.
> 
> A .45 ACP FMJ weighs 230gr and makes a .45 hole; a 9mm weighs 115-124gr and makes a .36 hole - pretty significant difference if the shot placement is identical.
> 
> ...


Well, I didn't say there was no difference. What I said was that the variance isn't much. When you look at the actual ballistics, the terminal ballistics don't vary all that much. Sure, of course there is a difference, and the .45 does make a bigger wound cavity and cause more damage. But like you said, bowling pins are not human bodies. Ballistic gel isn't a human body. I've read a lot of accounts where a .40 or .45 did not stop a BG after several well placed shots.

Again, I'm not saying the 9mm is "the best" round available. Any of them are going to work when they hit the right spot. Given the fact that there isn't enough of a difference in ballistics to warrant saying one round is better than the next, it stands to reason that when you consider all the reasons mentioned in this article, the 9mm seems to be the best choice. It really doesn't matter what round anyone chooses. There are all kinds of theories as to why one should choose one caliber over another. Perception plays into it. Skill plays into it. Desire plays into it. A lot of different things can factor into what makes one round better than some. But for those who are just getting started, who really have no clue what to choose, who may have preconceived ideas about what they need to choose based on old range tales, I try to offer some logical and reasonable information to help make decisions. There is nothing wrong with using a 9mm for defense, contrary to the opinions of many. I think folklore and legend is what a lot of .45 ACP carriers base the reason they use the .45 more than anything.

Those who have used the .45 in real combat type situations, and have trained with it all their lives really don't care about the science or rationale behind this article. They've already made up their minds, and that is ok with me. But for those who haven't, there's nothing wrong with giving some concrete information to help make a decision as to what to carry. Would you agree?


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

If the department or agency chooses for them it's a moot point.

If it's an individual choice then they are going to have to choose based on their experience, skill, and personal opinions.

For the zombie apocalypse I'd likely tote a 9mm as capacity would be the most important factor. For personal defense I tote a .45 simply because it seems right to me. I agree that a 9mm is a good round but I'm not ready to say it's the best - except for folks beginning their journey with centerfire handguns...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

LOL...well, ok. I think it's most important for anyone who is going to carry to find a gun that is best for them. I don't disagree with your choice criteria mentioned above. I think as it relates to the article, LEO use, cops are starting to see the value in using a solid round that has less recoil which gives them a better opportunity to get more rounds on target quicker than with other proven, but harder recoiling, rounds, and that gives them more bullets to shoot at the zombies. I imagine many cops face zombie apocalypse daily! LOL

My thought process doesn't say the 9mm is better than the .40 or .45. It says the .40 and .45 is really no better than the 9mm when all things are considered. If I'm going to shoot bowling pins, I'll choose the .45, but for EDC I want a proven round that gives me a better chance of getting follow up shots down range quicker and more accurately than anything available. That's why the 9mm is best for me. And I think that will hold true for most people as well.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I knew a man who shot his share of BG's and his preferred sidearm was a 1911. At least five of the men he shot no longer see daylight. Another man whom I knew through a gun website was both a police officer and a medical technician (not at the same time). He had some very interesting stories to tell and his choice was also the venerated .45ACP. A third man who worked (works?) in a morgue in Atlanta, also saw his share of gunshot bodies and also had some interesting stories to tell. His advice was not to go below a .40S&W, which he considered to be a fine caliber.

Point is this. When we have to draw that sidearm and employ it in defense of our butts, we are asking the gun, the caliber, and the load we have to do quite a job. That is not the time to play guessing games or 'what if' scenarios. All of that should have preceded this most crucial and extreme event. Your homework and your training will now culminate in success, or a trip to the hospital or a morgue slab. This is why we discuss these most important of issues as well we should. Caliber choice may well be the most important choice one makes next to carrying a gun for protection. I don't have the answer and can only imagine it lies in training, determination, a fighting mindset, and the confidence you can and will employ that sidearm with prejudice if and when needed.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I know a retired police swat officer who carried a 9mm until he had to shoot at an oncoming car, and saw the bullet glance off the windshield. He then went and traded his 9mm for the Sig P220 in .45 ACP. Of course, this was over 30 years ago, but still, he swears by the .45 to this day. 

I also know a Navy SEAL who, when I asked, what pistol would you choose if you could have your choice of anything available, if you were going into combat. His choice: Sig P226 9mm. I asked again, you would choose the P226 over the HK45? He said yes. He has the most training with the P226, and that is what he would choose. Now this is a man who has seen combat in its ugliest forms. The SWAT officer above has also seen combat both as an Army Ranger and as a SWAT officer. Both choose completely two calibers (but both chose a Sig-interesting), so I submit your latter statement would hold truer than anything.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

Ammo discussions often amuse me. It seems like the name of the caliber somehow gives it mystical powers. A 9mm (.355 diameter) is praised as being equivalent to .40 S&W and .45 ACP. Meanwhile, the .38 Special (.357 diameter and similar velocity) is considered old fashioned and under powered. It's almost like judging racehorses by the number of the gate they left behind them.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)




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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Cait43 said:


>


Things generally work better that way!


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## Lee Hunter (May 25, 2011)

You can agree with me, or you can be wrong. :smt083:mrgreen:


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Aren't we all that way, to some degree though?


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> Aren't we all that way, to some degree though?


Not really. I know my opinions are just that - my opinions...


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

NGIB said:


> Not really. I know my opinions are just that - my opinions...


That's just your opinion. :anim_lol:


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

NGIB said:


> Not really. I know my opinions are just that - my opinions...


Well, for someone who knows their opinions are just opinions, you sure put up a good debate. ;-)


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> Well, for someone who knows their opinions are just opinions, you sure put up a good debate. ;-)


I will state facts and refute arguments with the best of them, I just don't ever express my opinions as fact...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I think sometimes folks don't understand the difference btwn facts and opinions. Let's take this thread, and the subject, for example. My opinions of the subject have changed over the years b/c the facts are what they are. Now, some of the facts have also changed, such as the quality of ammunition, ballistic performance knowledge, etc. For years my opinion of the 9mm round was that it was crap, and that is a fact. But the fact is that it wasn't crap. It, like anything, depends on what it is used for, for one, but also it depends on the skill of the one using it. 

For years I believed that the .45 causes A LOT more damage, creating a far greater wound cavity than the 9mm. Turns out that isn't true either. As it turns out, the differences are not all that great after all. Sure, the .40 and .45 is a harder hitting round than the 9mm, all things considered, but is there enough of a difference to say that one is "the best" round of all? No. That is the reason that got me to looking back toward the 9mm as a personal defense round. It is my opinion that the 9mm is the best GP personal defense round for me. I have never stated that it is the best PD round, and I never will. 

Now, the fact is that more and more professionals are starting to look back at the 9mm as well. It is my opinion that those who are
made that decision for many of the same reasons I did, but I don't know that to be a fact. At the end of the day, my whole point on this subject has been that regardless of what you choose to employ as a PD round, you need to train, not that one round is better than the other. Just b/c someone carries a .45 does not mean they will beat the guy with a 9mm. 

There is no magic bullet that will drop a man with one shot, and this especially includes the vaunted .45. As I have said, I love the .45 and would really prefer to carry it, but at the end of the day, I have come to realize that I am more proficient with the 9mm. Given that fact with the fact that it is less expensive to use the 9mm all the way around from cost of ammo to wear and tear on my gun and me, it is my opinion the 9mm is the best EDC defense round for me. It is also a fact that it is the most widely used bullet in the world, so it must be a very popular opinion.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I have also stated that I think the military should issue a .45, although I see nothing wrong with the 9mm. The truth is that the military just does not spend a lot of time on the pistol, and the fact that they have to use FMJ (WHY?) also makes a case for it, so it stands to reason that in that case, the avg soldier would be better equipped with a hi-capacity .45, like the FN FNX45 which holds 15 rounds of .45, than a 9mm. Or they could just take some time to actually train with the 9mm. Either way, both are effective defense rounds.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

If the military changes handguns, I'd give the FNX the best odds. It's everything the military looks for in a handgun, is built in Columbia SC, and FN already has a good relationship with the military...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I agree. It is a really nice pistol, and you can't beat 15 rounds of .45 for a service pistol.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

GCBHM said:


> I think sometimes folks don't understand the difference btwn facts and opinions. Let's take this thread, and the subject, for example. My opinions of the subject have changed over the years b/c the facts are what they are. Now, some of the facts have also changed, such as the quality of ammunition, ballistic performance knowledge, etc. For years my opinion of the 9mm round was that it was crap, and that is a fact. But the fact is that it wasn't crap. It, like anything, depends on what it is used for, for one, but also it depends on the skill of the one using it.
> 
> For years I believed that the .45 causes A LOT more damage, creating a far greater wound cavity than the 9mm. Turns out that isn't true either. As it turns out, the differences are not all that great after all. Sure, the .40 and .45 is a harder hitting round than the 9mm, all things considered, but is there enough of a difference to say that one is "the best" round of all? No. That is the reason that got me to looking back toward the 9mm as a personal defense round. It is my opinion that the 9mm is the best GP personal defense round for me. I have never stated that it is the best PD round, and I never will.
> 
> ...


I feel like I keep reading the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

We're trapped in the Twilight Zone!!!!!


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Rusty, I'm not surprised. Here's the thing. How many people do we have checking in for the first time daily? Many ask questions related to this subject. If they do take the time to research it on here, they will be able to find more than one article on the subject without having to go all over the place, which is one of the whole reasons for such forums. Those who don't want to read it don't have to. You certainly don't have to chime in to show what kind of a smartass you are. It really is that simple.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Let me just say that I post a lot of articles and things to be informative for those who may be interested. While I always welcome commentary, discussion and debate, it isn't something I ask for. If you don't find the information worth your time, then don't waste your time. That seems like it should be obvious, but there is always one who can't help themselves. There have been over 300 ppl look at this post. Hopefully it was helpful! Not nearly as many have taken the time to comment, which is fine, but if you have nothing but a flame, please. Be an adult. Exercise some restraint and refrain. Thanks!


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

here is a candid shot I took at my gun club of my car in front of the pistol range.. 7 shots at 21 feet.. My Kimber ultra carry CDP 45 ACP










I blew this shot up for another forum










I shoot 50 rounds a week just to keep my edge and muscle memory
Bill


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

EvilTwin said:


> here is a candid shot I took at my gun club of my car in front of the pistol range.. 7 shots at 21 feet.. My Kimber ultra carry CDP 45 ACP
> 
> I blew this shot up for another forum
> 
> ...


Here's hoping the rounds missed the gas tank......


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## EvilTwin (Sep 4, 2014)

Cait43 said:


> Here's hoping the rounds missed the gas tank......


I was just leaving the range and finished loading up.. and took this shot of the pistol range from the parking lot.. the photo was not meant to focus on the target.. it just happened to be in there .
I know you were joking ...

BTW.. that " HOLE " is the reason why I carry a 45 ACP. and why I shoot it every week to keep my edge and muscle memory. At my age, it is much more important than it was 20 years ago.

Bill aka ET


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