# 150 Grain Federal Premium HST for Micro pistols



## corneileous (Feb 17, 2018)

Hey guys, I was just wondering on what y’all’s opinion was regarding this ammunition in shorter barreled, 9mm micro compacts as opposed to just the regular 115 grain, 124, or 147. The gun in question is a Ruger LC9S. According to Federal, the 150 grain micro pistol defense ammo was designed and engineered for smaller pistols with barrels shorter than 3 inches in length. Apparently the other grains wont have enough time to generate enough velocity in a shorter barrel resulting in the possibility of over penetration due to not enough speed to make the lighter bullets expand..... 

Just wondering what you guys’ thoughts on that was and that if Federal knows what they’re talking about or if its just a gimmic. 


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

If what I remember about what I've read is correct, Federal's short-barrel-pistol loads really do work better in mini and micro pistols.
I believe that it's a matter of formulating a propellant mix which burns up completely in a short barrel, and yet doesn't push the bullet at too high a speed. It's a nice balancing act.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Speer has long been offering Short Barrel Gold Dots. I prefer Gold Dots to anything else and have recently moved to short barrel versions for the same reason.

Here's a pretty good test of the Gold Dot short barrel verses regular using 124 Grain +p ammunition. I agree with his philosophy of use. Also, I believe Speer Gold Dot is the finest of all premier defensive ammunition. Just my humble opinion.






Another test I believe one should do is to test them at night. In my night tests, the short barrel Gold Dots has less muzzle flash, producing a nice red glow rather than a white blinding flash. That was out of my S&W Shield 9mm with a 3.1 inch barrel.


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## corneileous (Feb 17, 2018)

Craigh said:


> Speer has long been offering Short Barrel Gold Dots. I prefer Gold Dots to anything else and have recently moved to short barrel versions for the same reason.
> 
> Here's a pretty good test of the Gold Dot short barrel verses regular using 124 Grain +p ammunition. I agree with his philosophy of use. Also, I believe Speer Gold Dot is the finest of all premier defensive ammunition. Just my humble opinion.
> 
> ...


I'm just curious but why do you choose Speer over the competition? I bought two 20 round boxes long time ago of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain standard pressure JHP's from a recommendation of a cop friend of mine because that's what his department used before he retired. I dunno, I may be way off base but I just drifted more to the HST's because I figured the Gold Dots would offer much too much barrier protection, kinda like what one would expect from a round that is used in law enforcement. I dunno, they may be the same....lol. I just landed my choice on the Federal.

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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Here's one point of reference, scroll down to 9mm. I watch a lot of gel tests online before buying & then see if my pick functions in my guns before carrying with it. Gel tests are just a reference point though, no bones included so real world results may vary. I've shot the HST 150 & 147 standard pressure & the 150 had a little less recoil out of my SIG P250 subcompact. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

If you watch review after review, Gold Dots just perform so consistently and reliably, it's no wonder so many law enforcement agencies use them. It has nothing to do with barrier penetration, IMO. I think the problem with Gold Dots is they've been around so long some people think they might be obsolete or old fashion. Regardless of that weird perception, I think it's still the very best one can buy, and still the one most LEOs tend to opt for who I know. Another real advantage is not only are they one of the first high quality bonded bullets, but their bonding process might still be the best.

Another advantage is with their use in a lethal force situation. When asked why you used "horrible" hollow point ammunition to shoot that poor young son of a good mother, you can say you chose it because that's what the police use. Also, the name "Gold Dot" doesn't sound tactical or mean spirited. Something like Hydroshock or Zonbie Exteme might spark issues with the State's Attorney. Some believe HST means Hi-Shok II, but I think it's just a name.

I do like HST or Hornady Critical Duty, but for day in day out defense, Gold Dot for me. I've even handloaded it for a number of years.

Gold Dot vs HST gelatin test


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## corneileous (Feb 17, 2018)

Craigh said:


> If you watch review after review, Gold Dots just perform so consistently and reliably, it's no wonder so many law enforcement agencies use them. It has nothing to do with barrier penetration, IMO. I think the problem with Gold Dots is they've been around so long some people think they might be obsolete or old fashion. Regardless of that weird perception, I think it's still the very best one can buy, and still the one most LEOs tend to opt for who I know. Another real advantage is not only are they one of the first high quality bonded bullets, but their bonding process might still be the best.
> 
> I do like HST or Hornady Critical Duty, but for day in day out defense, Gold Dot for me. I've even handloaded it for a number of years.
> 
> Gold Dot vs HST gelatin test


After watching that video, that's why I'm happy with my selection of the HST's over the Gold Dots. Not saying the Gold Dots aren't good, but I'm sure there's a specific reason why a lot of departments use them but that's just it, I think that's why most departments use them over the HST's is because of their barrier penetration. Matter of fact, that's why my cop buddy said they settled on Gold Dots is because of their ability to penetrate windshields and car doors and hold their shape so they can still function and expand properly when the hit the suspect inside.

I dunno, on that note, I may have to reconsider and do a little research on it to see how the HST's compare to the Gold Dots for barrier penetration for when I'm driving my big rig and when I'm in my pickup, and have to shoot through my door....



> Another advantage is with their use in a lethal force situation. When asked why you used "horrible" hollow point ammunition to shoot that poor young son of a good mother, you can say you chose it because that's what the police use. Also, the name "Gold Dot" doesn't sound tactical or mean spirited. Something like Hydroshock or Zonbie Exteme might spark issues with the State's Attorney. Some believe HST means Hi-Shok II, but I think it's just a name.


Seriously??...lol. Never in my wildest dream would I have ever imagined that a name choice for a bullet that's used to kill would make a difference in a trial. Maybe I'm wrong since the Libbies have amazed us all so much with their shenanigans but still, a bullet is a bullet whether it's called a fairy pill, fluffy button, Zombie Extreme, Hydra-Shok, or Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator...Lol.

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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Update: First time I've seen an HST in 9mm fail. The 147 is listed at 1,000 fps, 150 is 900 fps. Might be on the lower edge of adequate velocity to expand consistently, though this was just one shot. I carry the 124 HST in my SIG P290RS, 147 HST in my P250.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

corneileous said:


> Seriously??...lol. Never in my wildest dream would I have ever imagined that a name choice for a bullet that's used to kill would make a difference in a trial. Maybe I'm wrong since the Libbies have amazed us all so much with their shenanigans but still, a bullet is a bullet whether it's called a fairy pill, fluffy button, Zombie Extreme, Hydra-Shok, or Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator...Lol.


While I agree with you completely, some parts of the country have very liberal State Prosecutors. They'll use every trick in the book to paint you as the evil doer instead of the criminal. Their goal is often to have the highest possible ratio of prosecutions and wins so they can use those stats to get reelected. Many of these State Prosecutors are gun-grabbing liberals and again, want to use anything to make it seem you are trolling possible interactions where you can to use your evil gun. They will try to convince a jury that you're a macho gun toting narcissist. Some are very good at it. It's your life on the line, and not theirs. It's also very expensive and will drain you of every penny you've saved if you don't want a public defender, and I don't.

I've always tried to put myself in the best light in case it happens to me. I'd never carry a gun with the Punisher logo on the grips or anything else which may look offensive to some jury member. No special colors. My ammo doesn't have a harsh name. I'd avoid a holster which had a name which could be brought up. No gun related Tee-shirts, except maybe at my gun club. I also suggest having insurance like US LawShield.

Just for the heck of it, you might want to watch this video by the famous Massad Ayoob. Many of consider him to be the best expert witnesses out there. He's written several books on this over around 40 years. This video is called "Cute Lawyer Tricks."


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

What Massad Ayoob has to say about using handloads for SD is why I no longer carry my handloads for SD.
Seriously??... Yep, Seriously!

Here's the Ammo Quest guy testing 9mm HST 124 gr standard pressure from a short barrel... It's worth a watch.






Sam


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## corneileous (Feb 17, 2018)

Babbalou1956 said:


> Update: First time I've seen an HST in 9mm fail. The 147 is listed at 1,000 fps, 150 is 900 fps. Might be on the lower edge of adequate velocity to expand consistently, though this was just one shot. I carry the 124 HST in my SIG P290RS, 147 HST in my P250.


That sure was a lot of denim he fired that round through, though. I don't think you're supposed to take a pair of jeans and fold them that many times when doing a denim-covered ammo test in gelatin....lol.

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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

corneileous said:


> That sure was a lot of denim he fired that round through, though. I don't think you're supposed to take a pair of jeans and fold them that many times when doing a denim-covered ammo test in gelatin....lol.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


True, looked like maybe 8 layers if those were jeans. I think a more valid test would just be a winter jacket. I don't know anyone who wears 8 denim jackets in winter.


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## crewchief (Jul 25, 2018)

I'll bet price is what drives who buys what in the bigger police dept.... Not which bullet is better!!!


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