# Why a glock is better then other guns



## Map9690

Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


----------



## DWARREN123

Very simple manual of arms, easy to care for and clean, most models are very accurate and will feed and shoot any ammo. 
Just my opinions. :mrgreen:


----------



## Map9690

So many people talk about how ugly the glock is. Since when did guns have anything to do with fashion statements. It's a tool! You don't buy a power drill because it looks nice. Reliability and quality over anything!


----------



## clance

It's a brick, that feels like a brick with little to no ergonomics in comparison to other polymer pistol that has since the Glock's first appearance, given raise to a number of polymer pistols that doesn't feel like a BRICK! 

Remember you ask. :smt075


----------



## Packard

I have two. The deciding factor for me was that it was a proven weapon (proven over many years and in lots of police departments). 

There were other weapons that offered slight improvements over the Glock (thinner, lighter, smaller, more capacity, etc). But none of these improvements were substantial enough to dethrone the Glock.

On the down side, I think Glock should offer more single stack guns. I think a thinned single stack 9mm would sell well in the G26 sized weapon.


----------



## Map9690

If anyone is curious go to the glock Wikipedia page and read the requirements the fire arm had to go through to be chosen. Quite rigorous. And as far as it being a brick? Maybe it's because I'm a bigger guy but most other guns are to small. I love everything about it. And your right about a skinnier 9mm. It can be annoying concealing a glock. But after all it was designed for the Austrian army not civilians.


----------



## Holly

Map9690 said:


> So many people talk about how ugly the glock is. Since when did guns have anything to do with fashion statements. It's a tool! You don't buy a power drill because it looks nice. Reliability and quality over anything!


What if two power drills have the same reliability, quality and price? What's your next criteria? Do you purposely choose the ugly one, with the thought that it will get dinged up anyway? In my opinion, a dinged up ugly gun is still worse than a dinged up pretty gun.


----------



## Map9690

No my next criteria is consumer reviews. Then price, then warranty options. And if the drills are really the same in every way, then those 2 companies are doing a crappy job on marketing and giving competitive pricing.


----------



## berettabone

Tie six or more together, and they make great boat anchors......


----------



## TedDeBearFrmHell

glock has awesome marketing!


----------



## chessail77

Glock has a solid reputation and is reliable, however; ergonomics and trigger suck for some of us, so it is not for everyone though its supporters seem to think so, but the SIG P226 went through some rigorous tests from the US military and passed, along with Beretta. Admittedly Glock was not allowed to participate because it is a foreign manufactured gun. All that aside it is great we have so many choices and a preference for the Glocks is a subjective one......JJ


----------



## Map9690

You do know beretta is Italian and sig is Swiss right?And glock did have a chance to compete but the guidelines didn't give them enough time. But now marshals and FBI carry them.


----------



## Shipwreck




----------



## chessail77

The contract stated that the military firearms be made in USA...both Sig and Beretta had factories here ready and able to produce them as did the others who competed. After the trials Beretta has been making them here. Glock did not meet the specifications to begin with and did not have a factory here at the time.......JJ


----------



## Map9690

The handgun was adopted into service with the Austrian military and police forces in 1982 as the P80 (Pistole 80),[14] with an initial order for 25,000 guns.[10] The Glock 17 outperformed 8 different pistols from five other established manufacturers (Heckler & Koch offered their P7M8, P7M13 and P9S, SIG-Sauer of Switzerland bid with their P220 and P226 models, Beretta of Italy submitted their model 92SB-F, FN Herstal proposed an updated variant of the Browning Hi-Power and the home-grown Steyr entered the competition with the GB).[15]
The results of the Austrian trials sparked a wave of interest in Western Europe and overseas, particularly in the United States, where a similar effort to select a service-wide replacement for the M1911 had been ongoing since the late 1970s (known as the Joint Service Small Arms Program). In late 1983, the United States Department of Defense inquired about the Glock pistol and received four samples of the Glock 17 for unofficial evaluation.[16] Glock was then invited to participate in the XM9 Personal Defense Pistol Trials, but declined because the DOD specifications would require extensive retooling of production equipment and providing 35 test samples in an unrealistic time frame.[16]
Shortly thereafter, the Glock 17 was accepted into service with the Norwegian, and Swedish Armed Forces, surpassing all prior NATO durability standards.[16] As a result, the Glock 17 became a standard NATO-classified sidearm and was granted a NATO Stock Number (1005-25-133-6775).[16]
By 1992, some 350,000 pistols had been sold in more than 45 countries, including 250,000 in the United States alone.[14]

Glock turned the USA down. Not the other way. And sig didn't have a plant till 85


----------



## recoilguy

Who cares.....I didn't even know Norway had a military.....do both of the guys and their german shhepard all have one? They couldn't make 35 guns to be tested in the same amount of time all the other companies could ....Hmmmmmm. That just seems unfair. I own a glock amongst other handguns. I am just not a big internet copy paster though, I rely on me to form my opinion. 

There are other guns out there and there even other guns with NATO stock numbers on them. What the heck does that number mean anyway? I am not a bit impressed by that and i own a gun with a NATO syock number on it and advertised as a big deal by the company. It's a great weapon but the NATO # I think it's hype, or not I am not sure. 

Glocks are reliable and a lot of places use them. As has been stated,their marketing dept is clever! They give such a good deal to certian entites it would be hard for them to pass on them. Then they advertise "used by the Icelandic Armed Forces" and get people in the public to buy into it and pass it on. I have a few buddies that shoot Glocks and even compete with them. They shoot good and do very well. I personally will not use one in competition nor do I normally use mine at all. Its nice but it is nothing special nor is it superior to most other brands in any criteria I place importance on.

Now they have a way better mag spring then those Italian guns don't get me wrong........................its a joke, mellow out!

RCG


----------



## genesis

Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


While I don't own a Glock, just Rugers at the moment, rather then get in to the Ford versus Chevy thing, let's just agree that we're darn fortunate to have so many extremely fine choices from a worldwide pool of manufactures. We each have our preferences. Preferences aren't right or wrong, good or bad. They're just preferences. Heck, there's a whole slew of guns from a whole slew of manufactures that I'd love to own and play with, Glock included. I'll probably own one some day.

Don <><

Don <><


----------



## Map9690

I'm mellow I was however in debate club 0_o. Nerdy I know. But I like when someone comments to back up a statement. Arguing opinion is one of the great freedoms we have. I just wanted to explain the facts I had to formulate opinion. And I guess copying and pasting was a problem?


----------



## Shipwreck

> Who cares.....I didn't even know Norway had a military.....do both of the guys and their german shhepard all have one?


----------



## Steve M1911A1

I don't understand.
*Map9690*, do you own a Glock? Do you need reassurance from us, that you made the right choice? Is that what this thread is about?

If that is indeed what you're after, please allow me to reassure you: If you like your Glock, then you made the right choice.
Glocks don't feel good in my hands; but if your Glock feels good in your hands, it was the right choice.
Glock magazines stick in the gun if they're not completely empty, which I don't like; but if you don't mind pulling magazines out, you made the right choice.
Glocks come with fragile plastic sights, which rip off if I try to rack the slide on my belt. I don't like that; but if you never slide-rack one-handed, you made the right choice.

Feel better now?

(Sorry: Couldn't help it. The Devil made me write that.)


----------



## Map9690

Sure Steve I feel much better. In fact it's the happiest ive ever been. Anymore motivational speeches? 
( looks like the devil got to me too)


----------



## rex

Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


You asked......

If you gave me one I'd sell it.I shot one in 1988 and thought it sucked,and think less of the company itself after hearing about their arrogant attitude and tactics.I shot one a few years later and it didn't change my mind any.

As Steve said,the ergos suck,the sights suck,and I think the swelling mags is a touch dumb.What I find really dumb is where they put the safety,even an inbred retart would question the logic of putting the safety in the damn trigger itself.What that tells me is the gun was designed for idiots that aren't bright enough to operate a normal safety or stay off the mag release-my God,is opperating a rifle way over their head?

I've never heard of Colt or HK leg either.Seems Glock wins the prize for idiots booting one in their leg, or their hand field stripping it-anothe bright freakin' idea there!

I never verified it but I heard reports in the early years some departments got a spiel about Glock' innovative polymer frame and polygonal bore-beep,wrong answer considering HK beat them by a decade.Like I said,I don't know for sure but considering some lawsuit threats for I've run across it wouldn't shock me.

I don't like them obviously but for the money they are a decent gun,the "Church of Glock" I just don't get.I think the intended design of KISS makes them dangerous and counterproductive to the goal,You don't hand someone unproficient in handling arms a gun with a fairly light trigger and for all intensive purposes has no safety.Brilliant.

I will only own one polymer gun,HK.The USP is a much stronger and better gun to me,and failures are slim compared to Glocks.

Just my opinion but you asked.If you like the gun,great,you need to have confidence in your gun,I just have no use for them.


----------



## Map9690

I've shot 7000 rounds no problem out my 34. It's not a confidence issue. Just curious


----------



## jdw68

I really like my Glock 26. I like the grip, trigger, and don't mind the looks. I have never noticed any issues with the magazine release, in that, it works just like all my other autos. The gun is durable, reliable, and easy to shoot accurately. It's also a fun gun to shoot at the range. I also have other pistols that I like just as much such as Colt, Smith & W, Ruger, and Beretta. I'm not one of those guys who claims that Glock is the best, but I'm also not a Glock hater. I don't really understand the extremes this gun brings out in people. Love and hate. To me it's just another really good gun.


----------



## rex

Map9690 said:


> I've shot 7000 rounds no problem out my 34. It's not a confidence issue. Just curious


I understand.7K isn't much though really,proves the gun and ammo are reliable,but .........

I think if the USP were in the trials the price is the only thing that would be the killer,the P7 and P9S are more of a law enforcement piece than a combat sidearm so they were pretty screwed on that one.

2 point among otherswhy I like the USP:

The USP is basically a scaled down MK23,the MK23 lived through 6K proof rounds and 30K +Ps in initial testing,among other things.The USP won't quite handle that of course,but it will take a serious beating in the fullsize 45 or the 45 Tactical due to the unique recoil system.The compacts and smaller calibers have a different recoil system,but they take a beating too.I have yet to hear of a USP that was shot to death.

Recently Federal Cartrige sent an older USP 45 to HK for a checkup.The armorers said you could tell the gun was seriously used,and it appeared the only thing ever done was recoil spring changes.After going through it they resprung it and I think updated the old firing pin block to the new style.Out of curiosity they called Federal to see if they had a round count,it was looked up and was just shy of 300K rounds.There was mention of proof rounds but I'm not sure on those.

Alot of people complain at the price,but put more than that into a 1911 that eats recoil springs at least 5 times quicker,and depending who made it,may break down.Since I love 1911s,the quality of HK justifies the price to me whether it's plastic or not.

Anyway,enjoy it,as long as you like it nothing else matters.


----------



## rex

jdw68 said:


> I don't really understand the extremes this gun brings out in people. Love and hate. .


Boy if that isn't the truth,I can't think of another gun that is the same way.

My main problem with the gun is I and some others think it's just a poor design.My big problem with them is the company itself,much more so than the product.


----------



## Map9690

How is the usp? Unfortunately I have only seen it in video games but I hear it's fast and accurate. And shipwreck, shouldn't the synagogue have a desert eagle  I apologize about seeming extreme about glocks. Just like sparking debates. Didn't mean to offend or disturb anyone. Actually my favorite gun my dad gave me was a ruger lcp. The only problem is it jams on the last round every time. So to fix the problem I have to load 7 fmj rounds with the last being a holo point.


----------



## Shipwreck

Map9690 said:


> And shipwreck, shouldn't the synagogue have a desert eagle


No, they are smarter at that synagogue and know the truth. Beretta is better


----------



## rex

No offense taken at all man,a little debating is good until it gets rude and out of hand.

Have you tried a new mag spring in the Ruger? You're getting an inertia feed from lack of tension on the last round,or occasionally a boltover but they aren't very common.

You're definately going to have to put your hands on a USP to know if you like it because there are 4 frames:the 9/40,9/40 compact,45,and 45 compact.It's been a long time since I shot a 9,but I like the 45 round and bought the fullsize Tactical for the reason it already had the match trigger in it,had adjustable sights and if I decide to put a can on it,the barrel is already threaded and the gun was designed to live with one attatched.You can put a threaded barrel in a standard model and will shoot just fine,but there is a slight difference in the recoil system.

The fullsize 45 is pretty big being the largest of the frames,but the grip isn't much larger than a Beretta 92 to me.I've had it for 2 years but haven't really put many rounds through it due to time and finding the right front sight heighth.Some people tend to shoot low with the USP,and I seem to be one.I think the big problem is the lack of recoil,which a looser grip would help,but I hold all my pistols the same so I'm not changing that.These things are freakin' accurate,and the recoil system really absorbs recoil in these frames.The buffer spring works twice,when the barrel unlocks it buffers that,resets foward on extraction and then buffers the slide impact at full rear stop.Some say the first buffering distracts them in sight tracking but I can't see the stutter.I don't recall the exact numbers,but the recoil system works so well that the force transfered to the frame is like 1/7 that of a normal 45 recoil system,cool design.

About the only cons to it are the size,the price,and some complain about the triggers,but none of it bothers me.The trigger and safety are modular with 9 variations,DAO and left and right safety for SA and DA/SA.The stock DAO sucks,but there are a few variations that can get you down to a 5lb pull.Then you have the match trigger in the 45 FS,but it can be installed in the 45 compact without the trigger itself.If you want a trigger stop you'd have to drill and tap the compact's trigger.Some complain about the reset being long but I find no issue of it being insane.I think too much is made out of reset,too little and you can bump fire it,and Jerry Mikuleck doesn't seem to be slowed down with the insane reset of a revolver.

If you can shoot one or a few,try one out for poops and giggles,they are unique.Kind of like Glock,some love them some don't,but not as bad as the Glocks.I'm a 1911 diehard and there is a bit of influence there in the design of the USP,so that's a plus.HK's mag releases are the gig,I'd love one on my 1911s but that just isn't going to happen.I don't think much of plastic period,but this gun impressed me enough to break down and get it.This is the only pistol that could dethrone the 1911 for me.

Later man.


----------



## Map9690

That's awesome they have a USP that uses 9mm Luger. I also buy guns that my girlfriend can use and that's primarily why I chose glock. She dropped it once and concrete while cleaning it in our garage and the sights broke off. So I bought some truglow fiber oPtics. I would love to buy a 1911 but I can't afford it right now. There's a reason it's so popular and I believe it has something to do with winning two world wars maybe lol. But she has shot a 45 and it hurts her wrist. I will say glocks are annoying to cc. And the compact models don't fit my hand well.


----------



## rex

I don't know about the 9s,but the 45 slide is pretty wide like the Glock but not such a block.The P30 and P2000 may be a little thinner but I don't know.

I did forget a bad point,HK mags are close to $60,that sucks bigtime.

I know what you mean about money,the economy here has been so bad I've lost about 1/2 my income 5 years ago.Boy does that put a kink in the gun budget.I'm trying to go through the Commander I carry to get it the way I like them set up but rebuilding the girlfriend's Harley and keeping mine up until I can go through it doesn't help the matter any.Thank God I reload to save some there.


----------



## denner

Glock is better than many guns, so are: H&K, Sig, CZ, Beretta, Kahr, Ed brown, Colt, M&P, XDM, Walther, etc........They are all better than a Highpoint, but when you group all the better ones together it's purely a matter of subjective personal preference. #1 criteria for me is reliability. Glock, I don't believe there is any pistol w/ fewer parts, cheaper priced parts and accessories, light weight, somewhat easy to completey disasemble, consistent trigger albeit staple gun like and somewhat easy to master along with exceptional customer service and proven track record. Great pistol and company.


----------



## usmcj

Packard said:


> I have two. The deciding factor for me was that it was a proven weapon (proven over many years and in lots of police departments).


If the selection criteria is "proven over many years", then holler when the Glock has the same track record as the 1911. Most police departments accept the cheapest bid.

I'd own a Glock if I didn't have to handle it, or look at it, but that's just my opinion. Looks aren't important? What first drew your attention to the vehicle you're driving? The maintenance requirements? Not likely.

I'll bet you paid more for your vehicle than your carry gun, and I'll bet you liked the looks of your tens of thousands of dollars worth of vehicle, before you considered reliability or quality

It's personal preference. There is no right or wrong. Just send me what you want me to have. My local FFL dealer will gladly accept transfers from non-FFL holders with proper identification.


----------



## ponzer04

denner said:


> Glock, I don't believe there is any pistol w/ fewer parts, somewhat easy to completey disasemble.


I think our definitions of fewer parts and Completely disassemble are different. the exploded views of a 1911 and a glock have ruffly the same parts and on the glock they didn't take apart the trigger all the way and the 1911 they counted the grip panels which really wouldn't be needed.


----------



## Map9690

My car was a gift for graduating college. Can't speak for others but ya I have spent more on my glock then a car. So that kinda punches a whole in that comparison. And it is a jeep. Not the most beautiful car. But reliable.


----------



## usmcj

Map9690 said:


> My car was a gift for graduating college. Can't speak for others but ya I have spent more on my glock then a car. So that kinda punches a whole in that comparison. And it is a jeep. Not the most beautiful car. But reliable.


ok, buy me a Glock, and I'll own one.


----------



## Map9690

If I win the lotto you bet. Stipulation 1: you have to shoot it 2: you have to say thank you


----------



## usmcj

I do shoot them.... quite well, as a matter of fact. I just don't like their ergonomics, or their looks. 

I'm old, so "thank you" will not be a problem.


----------



## Map9690

I would also like to say that nothing screams "America " more then a 1911. Maybe a Winchester 45 level action rifle. But I find glock to be more intuitive then other guns as well.


----------



## berettatoter

Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


I have always been a fan of Glock pistols. I like the grip angle better than even my Berettas, but I like the overall look and lines of a Beretta over the Glock. You can't deny the obvious that the Glock pistol is a very well built and dependable firearm.


----------



## RugerP95

Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


I think they are very cheap made...dangerous gun. You settle for less when you buy one. Get a good Ruger or S&W M&P.....nuff said.


----------



## Map9690

Nah like I said before I have a ruger lcp and wasn't to impressed.


----------



## SMann

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Glock magazines stick in the gun if they're not completely empty, which I don't like; but if you don't mind pulling magazines out, you made the right choice.
> Glocks come with fragile plastic sights, which rip off if I try to rack the slide on my belt.


Everybody knows the stock sights are slot fillers until proper ones are installed and if you keep the mags downloaded by one they will not bulge and stick even when loaded.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Map9690 said:


> I would also like to say that nothing screams "America " more then a 1911...


Is that bad?



Map9690 said:


> Maybe a Winchester 45 level action rifle...


Actually, it would more likely be a Winchester M.73 in .44-40, or a M.94 in .30-30.



Map9690 said:


> But I find glock to be more intuitive then other guns as well.


"The original point-and-click interface."
Like computers, it has its flaws. But it does the job.
As with computers-some of us like the Apple, and some the Microsoft version-some don't fit well into the Glock _gestalt_.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

SMann said:


> Everybody knows the stock sights are slot fillers until proper ones are installed and if you keep the mags downloaded by one they will not bulge and stick even when loaded.


So, let me get this straight:
The Glock pistol is but the basic, incomplete part of a do-it-yourself kit?
And their high-capacity magazines are actually one-cartridge-fewer-than-high-capacity magazines?

I prefer buying factory-completed guns that work properly, right out of the box.


----------



## Map9690

Oh don't get me started on Mac and apple. And I haven't had the magazine issue. Even with all 17 it doesn't stick for me. And I didn't mind the stock sights. They worked just fine.


----------



## jdw68

My Glock has yet to fail to fire or fail to feed, which makes it my most reliable pistol. My Beretta has only failed me once and has actually shot more rounds than the Glock. My colt 1911 acp can be a bit picky on what rounds it likes to cycle. Anything that looks like a fmj it will cyle fine, anything that has a wide hollow point it struggles to cycle. I like my 1911, but it's not the Holy grail of firearms. For those who love Berettas I like them also, if you love 1911's that's fine too. I certainly understand why some folks love the Glock, they are great pistols. I can shoot my Glock more accurately than I can ever shoot my 1911. It holds more rounds and shoots whatever I put through it. I still have stock sights on my pistol and have never had an issue. Finally, my Glock is a good lookin pistol


----------



## Packard

usmcj said:


> If the selection criteria is "proven over many years", then holler when the Glock has the same track record as the 1911. Most police departments accept the cheapest bid.
> 
> I'd own a Glock if I didn't have to handle it, or look at it, but that's just my opinion. Looks aren't important? What first drew your attention to the vehicle you're driving? The maintenance requirements? Not likely.
> 
> I'll bet you paid more for your vehicle than your carry gun, and I'll bet you liked the looks of your tens of thousands of dollars worth of vehicle, before you considered reliability or quality
> 
> It's personal preference. There is no right or wrong. Just send me what you want me to have. My local FFL dealer will gladly accept transfers from non-FFL holders with proper identification.


I've owned 1911s, and in fact the stainless steel Gold Cup was easily my most accurate weapon, and the one I shot best. But I don't believe in toggling back and forth between DAO and SA weapons. It is a recipe for disaster. So once I got my first Glock I locked in on DAO weapons (G23, G27, S & W 640 Pro, S& W 340PD, S & W 63, Ruger SP101).

As far as ergonomics go, the blocky grip makes no difference to me. Only the trigger reach and grip angle really matter. Even the pinky hanging under the G27 does not affect me noticably. Aesthetics are another matter entirely. I keep my weapons clean and lubricated; I don't polish them or coddle them. I don't pay too much attention to the appearance as long as they are reliable and accurate.

Both my Glocks (just over a year old each) have been 100% reliable for me. As a pair (I always carry both or swap off the G23 for the S & W 640) they are the most reliable autos I've ever owned (and I've owned many autos).

If I had decided to go with SA weapons, there are now nice choices that were not available when I bought the first Glock. Sig Sauer's offerings would tempt me, but then I'd have to sell all of my DAO weapons to make that switch (and I love my revolvers).


----------



## dondavis3

Every one has their own opinion.

That said - I do not care for Glocks 

I've owned 3 Glocks in past years and have sold them all except one.

To me they are ugly guns.

They do not fit my hands well.

I don't care for the grip angle at all.

Other than that they are great guns ... for other people to own.

:smt1099


----------



## rex

Packard said:


> But I don't believe in toggling back and forth between DAO and SA weapons. It is a recipe for disaster. So once I got my first Glock I locked in on DAO weapons (G23, G27, S & W 640 Pro, S& W 340PD, S & W 63, Ruger SP101).


With all due respect,I think the first statement limits your abilities as a well rounded shooter.On duty and combat competition I've carried revolver,DA/SA and SA (concealed and matches,couldn't carry SA in my Dep't.).I practice enough my hand knows what gun it is and the thumb and index finger know just what to do without reminding myself about it.Even when the Glocks were approved I kept my Beretta,but I wasn't fond of anything about the Glocks as everyone knows.

While the Glock is touted as a DOA,and technically is,unless you're running the NY connector I consider it nothing but a crappy SA.A revolver and early DOA is DA to me,a long heavy stroke.Long being the key point,I've shot some tricked out revolvers that were far from a heavy pull.I see the partial cocking of the striker spring or the hammer in HK's unique setup really just excess creep and takeup in a SA,you have a bit of loaded takeup with a break on par with a heavy SA pull.

Just my view on the subject,when I got into handguns I was told to diversify and learn how to shoot all the trigger groups to be well rounded and proficient,you may never know what you'll be stuck with in an emergency so know how to use anything.I'm still a 1911 diehard so my DA skills aren't what they were when I could shoot alot,but I can still shoot them with combat accuracy should the need arise.


----------



## Map9690

I agree with your statement. And by your " on duty " comment I assume you are a police officer. If so thank you for your service. But as far as being a civilian and a well rounded shooter in can be challenge. We can't afford to go shooting as much and again I'm assuming your precinct gives you ammo and has its own range. Although deversifying the guns we shoot is a great strategy. We are more then able to be proficient in the weapons we own.


----------



## rex

Thank you,but technically I wasn't your normal beat cop.Here in Podunk where I live I was in the Posse,or Auxillary.Basically I had all normal powers of your patrol officer,but it was wise to let one of them do an arrest.The Academy training was about 60hrs shy of full standards,most of that was the legal and takedown sections.I thought about doing the remainder of the class later but the hit in pay wasn't cool.That's compared to my normal job,we didn't get paid unless someone hired us for security,it was all volunteer work to help out the comunity.

We basically had to provide our own weapon,I carried a Smith 586 and when we did the auto transition they had a Beretta 92 in the gun room,so I got that and a buddy grabbed a 5904,most of the others bought their own because there was some junk and non approved calibers in there.They supplied carry ammo and reloads for qualifying twice a year but that was it,our personal shooting ammo was on us.I was with them for about 8 years and had to resign,my time was getting too scarce to continue as Captain but I got roped into a DUI working on the other coast with a friend-I already told my Commander I was going to resign and was waiting for him to have a replacement set up.Poor timing but it helped a little in the DUI case-that's a long story.

I understand what you mean about the 'civillian' thing,ammo sure isn't cheap now.Back then,late 80's and 90's,I started reloading because the local range ran combat matches among others,but not IPSC sanctioned.The rules were based on IPSC and alot of IPSC shooters came here,but there was alot of emphasis on tactics.I think this is around the time Bill Wilson started IDPA,but we were doing it before it took off.Reloading really helped,I could make a box of 45s for 3$ then.I shot that most,but also ran a 9 and did revolver and shotgun class.I got to shoot alot,but it was because of reloading,women can be expensive,but throw in a few kids and there's a sucking sound every time you grab your wallet.

Rambling again,take care man.


----------



## SMann

Steve M1911A1 said:


> So, let me get this straight:
> The Glock pistol is but the basic, incomplete part of a do-it-yourself kit?
> And their high-capacity magazines are actually one-cartridge-fewer-than-high-capacity magazines?
> 
> I prefer buying factory-completed guns that work properly, right out of the box.


My Glock and millions of others worked just fine right out of the box. Glock not charging me for expensive sights I won't like and will change anyway is fine with me. Are all your guns 100% stock? And for the downloading issue, here is another reason I posted in another thread.

It has been my experience that the weapons I've fired that use double stack mags have springs that are fully compressed when fully loaded. When trying to insert a fully loaded mag when the slide or bolt is forward, the top round in the mag must be pushed down by the slide/bolt for the mag to be inserted. If the spring is fully compressed the extra space is made by the staggered rounds being pushed outboard. This made me have to hit the bottom of the mag to get it to lock in. The sides of the mag bulge causing the mag to want to stay in place even if the mag release is pressed. I have even seen m16 mags split at the seem where they are spot welded together due the performing repeated combat reloads with fully loaded mags (inserting fresh mag while round is still in chamber meaning bolt is forward). Because my carry piece has plastic double stack mags and plastic seems to have memory, I download them by 1. There are reasons other than 'spring fatigue' to consider downloading certain mags.

One Glock, two magazines and 29 rounds are plenty for me to be carrying daily.


----------



## rex

I don't totally buy that.Some mags do bind but my HK USP,Beretta 92 and Smith 5900 series don't.All have at least 1/2 a round worth of play for a tactical reload.If you beat on any mag it will get ruined,dropping them on hard surfaces really kills them and watched alot go that way.I've seen very few split seams on mags,the ones I have seen were from dropping on hard ground during reloads.Overloaded pressure has caused spread lips in my experience,or looseniong baseplate joints.

Glock's mag spreading was intentional from the start,the guns were of the KISS approach for operation.I've seen newbies accidentally drop mags quite a few times,Glock did this so your average non-gunner wouldn't tie up the gun should they hit the release accidentally.The reasoning is sound,but the US bitched about it and Glock came out with drop free magazines.Whether they still do or not I don't know,we're talking 20 some years ago.I understand the KISS approach,because idiots are handed guns in the military and LE all the time.What I think is counterproductive to the KISS approach is putting the safety in the trigger,you have an idiot holding a gun and pulling the trigger overrides the safety?Pure genious there.These guns were designed for 'general masses',but they require highly proficient gun handling abilities to be as safe as they can be,kind of an oxymoron going on with the intent and the design.


----------



## SMann

My gen 3 G19 has no play with all 15 in the mag. The m16 mags I was issued had no play with all 30 in the mag. I don't remember about the m9's. I'm not sure what you don't buy, but what I posted was what I have experienced first hand. The information surely isn't universal, but it applies with certain equipment.


----------



## Tuefelhunden

I guess I'm a fence rider when it comes to Glocks. I've owned/tried almost all of the models at one time or another but for reasons not worth repeating never quite warmed to them in total. Having said that I can't dispute their many positive attributes either aside from what has been the Gen4 clusterpuck. In my opinion the real unquestionable star in the Glock line up remains the mid sized G19/G23 model. Even a devout Glock hater (which I am not) has got to admit that it is pretty hard to beat for a balance of capacity, power, weight, size, thickness, bore axis, barrel length, etc. My own prefered favorites the USPc and P2000 HK's fall way short on paper in comparison as they are heavier, thicker, shorter barrels and have less capacity. Damned annoying but no less true. Gaston was clearly using their noggin when they came up with this one and I would contend it still remains unequaled in all those "balance oreinted" catagories. However, what might make the most sense on paper reviewing the stats and specs doesn't translate into mass acceptance or we'd all be toting G19's.

Regarding the "to top off or not to top off a magazine" issue my 2 cents is that this is a design flaw or perhaps a more PC explanation would be a manufacturers oversight. As Rex stated above there should be enough tolerance built into a properly set up magazine to allow for full loading and the then logical insertion of the full magazine into the mag well. Period. Short loading by one round certainly serves as a work around solution but frankly if I didn't care about capacity I'd be toting a Colt Python. To be fair I don't recall having this problem with the Glocks that I have owned (G21, G20, G19, G22, G23, G17, G27, G26, G36, G30) but I can vividly recall some other brands/models where this issue did stand out. Not really a game changer but annoying. YMMV


----------



## rex

I suppose I'm not the greatest at wording things,I believe your experiences,and there is truth to the doublestack mags,but it's not alll inclusive in my eyes.As you said,it applies to certain things.

I don't totally recall the AR mags because I haven't shot it in years.I have close to 20 of the 30 rounders but they are all older GI contract mag.They are from the good contractors,but they are 80s at the newest.I have 2 clipped together that will work with a full 30 rounds,but most are tight as you said.Right now they are all burried except a Sanchez I keep in it but I don't think they are the same make.I was told to keep the old ones downloaded to 28,and it just stuck,with the exception of the 2 clipped together for some of the off the wall matches we used to have.

Didn't mean any offense,things sometimes come out differently than I mean.Poor articulation skills I'd say.


----------



## Easy_CZ

I don't have a problem with Glocks. They make great CC weapons as they are reliable, accurate, easy to maintain, fun to modify and, very importantly, easy to replace when the cops confiscate it after a good SD shot. 

It's a tool, no more, no less.


----------



## SMann

I appreciate the civility guys. I don't believe the Glock is the end all-be all for everyone, but it certainly works for me. My G19 isn't perfect, but it's minor issues were easily corrected and the pro's definately outweighed the con's by far. Because I can't at the moment invest in several sidearms, the G19 is the best one handgun to own for my purposes. Hopefully I will be able to add to my collection in the future, but even then the G19 will go nowhere. I trust it and love it. :smt023


----------



## rex

Tueful,I didn't even know you posted until I saw this was still runing.I agree on the 19 for general balance,it's right there but that grip angle!Just me,but I never dreamed that with that grip angle the frame flex would be so pronounced-drove me nuts.

My last post was for SMann for any future readers.So,believe it or not man,you have a good gun and if it proved itself spot on you are well taken care of.I can't believe I said that :smt104 

Easy has a great point though,if some douche does push you where you shouldn't have to,I'd rather tie up something that cost 1/2 as much as what I normally carry.


----------



## Backlighting

DWARREN123 said:


> Very simple manual of arms, easy to care for and clean, most models are very accurate and will feed and shoot any ammo.
> Just my opinions. :mrgreen:


 Ditto!


----------



## LePetomane

I don't see where they are any better than S&W, Beretta, Sig Sauer, etc. I own a 26. For me it is a nice shooting gun, but I prefer my Beretta PX4 as the grip is more comfortable. My wife shot the 26 and didn't like it


----------



## Tip

DWARREN123 said:


> Very simple manual of arms, easy to care for and clean, most models are very accurate and will feed and shoot any ammo.
> Just my opinions. :mrgreen:


Okay so you just described my Sigs and my H&K perfectly -- as well as many other top tier handguns.

Don't own a Glock and won't own a Glock.
WHY? Because I find them very uncomfortable to hold and shoot and as a result do not shoot very well with them.
To each his own.
Do not understand why the Glockenspeilers feel that the Glock is the next best thing to cartridge ammo. It isn't. 
Its a very fine weapon and if it works for you then great -- but just because it works for you doesn't make it work for anybody else.

The BEST weapon in the world is the ONE that works best for you!


----------



## rex

Tip said:


> Okay so you just described my Sigs and my H&K perfectly -- as well as many other top tier handguns. Exactly
> 
> Do not understand why the Glockenspeilers feel that the Glock is the next best thing to cartridge ammo. It isn't. They bought into the marketing propaganda of Glock Pefection and Safe Action design.!


I'm with you,nobody has given me a good reason to like them in 26 years.I find there are more flaws in the design than good points.


----------



## onalandline

Best bang for your buck in my opinion. I don't think they look bad either. Never a malfunction with mine.


----------



## Russ

*what has Glock done lately?*



Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


Map

Glock introduced the poly gun and it was ground breaking.

Question?

What contribution has Glock made recently?

I own a M&P shield single stack poly gun which is molded to fit my hand like a glove.

My Shield is thin accurate 100% reliable with all ammo.

Map, it is my opinion Glock introduced one heck of a gun but failed to keep up with the competition with research and development.

Poly guns Like M&P will continue to cut into Glock's market share if they don't start getting innovative.

Russ


----------



## niadhf

Russ said:


> Map
> 
> Glock introduced the poly gun and it was ground breaking.
> 
> Russ


Um, really?


----------



## rex

I was going to say that.The reality is the groundbreaking happened 15 years before the Glock.Other than that rediculous little post in the middle of the trigger,nothing about the gun is groundbreaking,innovative,perfection,whatever.All of this comes from marketing propaganda that people believed without question or knowledge.There was already a plastic gun,a poly bore gun,a striker fired gun,a funky grip angle gun,doublestack mags,guns that sights broke,guns that had crappy triggers,guns that blew up,guns that wiped primers,etc,etc.

The only thing I see Glock did nobody else I know did was get more people hit by negligent discharges in such a short time period.The gun was designed for the average Joe,read as gun ignorant people.How did that work out?The need for the NY trigger,and the leg toll still increases years later.As I said before,these guns are for the opposite type of people they were designed for,you wouldn't hand a newbie a GI 1911 condition 0 would you?And yes,the old GI guns could have nasty 7lb or more triggers,so don't blow smoke up my butt about it not being comparable,I've shot Glocks and that little extra pull length is insignificant to a nasty,gritty,sloppy GI trigger.


----------



## usmcj

ok, after all these posts, who's changed their mind about Glocks... one way or the other....? Nobody? I really didn't think so.


----------



## SouthernBoy

Tip said:


> The BEST weapon in the world is the ONE that works best for you!


This poster said it best with this one sentence. Arguing firearms' biases and opinions is rather ridiculous folks, for the reason this poster stated in the above quote. It's kinda like arguing which underpants are the best or which beer is the best or other similar totally subjective positions... because that's pretty much what it all boils down to; subjective opinions. Granted there are a few absolutes, but those revolve around quality and reliability. Once you have satisfied those fundamental issues, then everything else is personal opinion and that means subjectivity.

To say that the Glock is not as good as, say, the Beretta 92 series is pure hogwash. The "not as good" part would be solely based upon personal preference, not issues of quality and reliability. And that is fine and as it should be. The Glock is a proven design but then again, so are a host of other serious combat defensive handguns. The point is, taking a strongly biased position and arguing from that stance is a bit childish, don't you think? Most gun people I know have a variety of guns in their collections because they appreciate the features and values of different firearms. I fall into this category and enjoy what I have accumulated over the years. We should celebrate the fact that we have these choices and take advantage of them... not get worked up over some silly and biased ideas about this gun versus that one.


----------



## borris

The "Only-est" Hand Gun That's The "Best-est" "R" One that Shoots Well With Bullets The Chose is Yours ! "Luv My Gram er" L.O.L.


----------



## rex

SouthernBoy,I agree with the majority of what you say.I've heard this Glock perfection,best,what-have-you for over 20 years,and had them shoved in my face by cultists.I got sick of it a few years ago and at times I just can't ignore it.I love 1911s and think they are one of the nicest pistols in existance,and know how to make them work if the factory can't.I don't go around doing this crap,buy and use what you want and move on if it doesn't work out for you,no big deal really.If you ask for my opinion,you'll get it,but don't expect it to agree with yours or get your panties in a wad.It's kind of like the church solicitors knocking on your door weekend afternoons or the liberal media spewing their crap over and over,at some point you just had enough and have to say something.I know,ignore it,but sometimes something needs to be said to vent frustration.


----------



## Gorris

I don't really think Glock is better than any other handgun but they aren't worse either. Its mostly matter of opinion. I own and XD and love it. I have put about 1500 rounds down range without a problem and shoot decent with it. Now with that being said I shot a Glock 19 the other day and I was amazed. My grouping were better and I faster follow up shots. So now I am going to buy a Glock simply because it works for me. My buddy shot my XD and loved that better than the Glock and he wants and XD now. So I don't think Glock is better it just matters on the shooter and how well that weapon performs for that shooter.


----------



## Nanuk

I just came to the dark side 2 years ago. I had a G19 when they first came out. Nice gun, my agency would not allow it for on or off duty so I sold the Glock ( carried a 357 revolver for another 6 or 8 years). We were issued a Beretta 96D, biggest chunk of crap to ever grace my holster. After 3000 rounds the frame cracked so I started carrying my H&K USP/c 40 LEM. After a couple of years the P2000 came out and I was issued one. Carried it on/off duty for about 8 years firing about 15,000 rounds through it both on duty and off duty IDPA events.

The H&K's run flawless, have no aftermarket support, limited factory support. I am a H&K armorer, they are a well deigned, robust gun. 

Enter Gen 4 Glock. They run flawlessly, smaller, lighter, more ammo on board, aftermarket is phenomenal parts and accessories are everywhere. Parts if you need them are everywhere and cheap. The first time I shot the Glock in a match I shot better than I had ever shot the H&K. I guess there is a reason none of the championship shooters use H&K's.


----------



## SouthernBoy

rex said:


> SouthernBoy,I agree with the majority of what you say.I've heard this Glock perfection,best,what-have-you for over 20 years,and had them shoved in my face by cultists.I got sick of it a few years ago and at times I just can't ignore it.I love 1911s and think they are one of the nicest pistols in existance,and know how to make them work if the factory can't.I don't go around doing this crap,buy and use what you want and move on if it doesn't work out for you,no big deal really.If you ask for my opinion,you'll get it,but don't expect it to agree with yours or get your panties in a wad.It's kind of like the church solicitors knocking on your door weekend afternoons or the liberal media spewing their crap over and over,at some point you just had enough and have to say something.I know,ignore it,but sometimes something needs to be said to vent frustration.


You should agree with everything I wrote (heh, heh).

Seriously, there are so many really fine handguns out there that to limit oneself to just one brand seems to me to be a little juvenile. I like Glocks and I own a number of them. Several of them are in my carry stable. But I also like S&W M&P's, some Kahr's, Ruger revolvers and Mark series, Kimber and Springfield 1911's, and Browning Hi-Powers to name a few. Each of these guns has their own particular special features which I both enjoy and respect. I am not about to limit my selections to one or two brands simply because of brand loyalty. Glocks are fine handguns for their designed purpose. The same can be said for a bunch of other handguns, too.

Too many choices... not enough time or money.


----------



## rex

Hehe,I'm sorry.

I know what you mean,I've owned Dan Wesson,Smith,Colt,Taurus (the good early ones) and Ruger revolvers and Smith,Auto Ordnance (oops),Sig,Colt,SA,HK,Beretta autos,and probably something else I forgot.The only bad one was one of the SA 1911s,even the AO worked but I upgraded to an SA a few months later.I remember when I picked up my Beretta everyone was freaking over the slide failures,it was just a bad batch of slides,nothing more.Then locking blocks break,so buy a spare since you know it may happen later.It's a good gun and won't part with it,but now I've pretty much weeded down to Colt and HK.I would have no problem straying from them on another purchase,but life has curbed my finances for guns compared to a decade ago.I really need another bigbore revolver though,at the moment I don't have any revolvers.

If I had no choice but to use a Glock I would,I can shoot them well.I don't hate them,just really don't like them or the company itself.Similar to GM,I've owned them and drive one now because I got it for basically nothing,but it's about the last brand I consider when I'm shopping for wheels and I have to get it very cheap.Like giving $100 for a new Glock.Different strokes for different folks and all.

Later man,we're off topic really.


----------



## onalandline

H&K made the first polymer gun.

Why has Glock not been more innovative someone asked? Why change a good thing?


----------



## SouthernBoy

As for a SD carry gun, the Glock is right up there at the top of the heap with a few others. Their beauty lies in their simplicity and thus nearly utter reliability. And that, my friends, is what a carry gun is all about.


----------



## ponzer04

onalandline said:


> Why has Glock not been more innovative someone asked? Why change a good thing?


S&W with the M&P9 and Ruger with the SR9 seem to have innovated the design for the better. These two both are superior to the glock in the ergonomic and looks department. They both come from the USA.

here is a link comparing all three of these guns.

Handgun Database - Compare Handguns


----------



## dondavis3

I own Glocks (2) now and S&W M&P's (3) and XDm's (2).

I like them all 

But I do not believe that Glock have kept pace with the marketplace.

Here's what I mean:

Poor Grip angle 
Decent back strap system
Has plastic sights - needs Metal sights - adjustable
Decent slide serrations/grippiness. 
Full ambidextrous
Removable back straps. (not til Gen 4)
Grip angle. (oh I said that )
Texturing that doesn't rip skin off 
Stainless steel slide
Grip Safety
Loaded chamber indicator or hole
Cocked striker indicator
Stainless steel sub-chassis
Beefed up spring box (what Glock calls a guide ring)
Robust MIM extractor
Frame rails incorporated into the steel sear housing & locking blocks
Frame's "beaver-tail"
Revolver-like trigger shape
Second spring in the striker assembly (striker return spring, like is used in the 99 series)
Stainless steel guide rod
Replaceable grip inserts that allow adjustment of both the backstrap and the palm swell dimension

Now I wouldn't want all of those - but some are very nice indeed.

Glock USA told Glock Austria YEARS ago (when the Walther P99 came out, and the HK P2000) this should be upgraded on the Glocks as soon as they could.

Glock Austria insisted they knew better, i.e what we make is perfect.

They have now lost enough $$$$ over the M&P and XDm & other polymer guns which had these features suddenly the Glock Perfection became Glock Perfection version 4.0.

Glock Perfection version 4.0 solved very few of the problems.

I own 2 Glocks, and have for a dozen years. 

Doesn't mean the company always knows what it's doing. 

IMHO M&P and XDm surpassed them because it gave customers what they wanted in a reliable package without costing $700.

Just my opinion.

:smt1099


----------



## SouthernBoy

dondavis3 said:


> I own Glocks (2) now and S&W M&P's (3) and XDm's (2).
> 
> I like them all
> 
> But I do not believe that Glock have kept pace with the marketplace.
> 
> Here's what I mean:
> 
> Poor Grip angle
> Decent back strap system
> Has plastic sights - needs Metal sights - adjustable
> Decent slide serrations/grippiness.
> Full ambidextrous
> Removable back straps. (not til Gen 4)
> Grip angle. (oh I said that )
> Texturing that doesn't rip skin off
> Stainless steel slide
> Grip Safety
> Loaded chamber indicator or hole
> Cocked striker indicator
> Stainless steel sub-chassis
> Beefed up spring box (what Glock calls a guide ring)
> Robust MIM extractor
> Frame rails incorporated into the steel sear housing & locking blocks
> Frame's "beaver-tail"
> Revolver-like trigger shape
> Second spring in the striker assembly (striker return spring, like is used in the 99 series)
> Stainless steel guide rod
> Replaceable grip inserts that allow adjustment of both the backstrap and the palm swell dimension
> 
> Now I wouldn't want all of those - but some are very nice indeed.
> 
> Glock USA told Glock Austria YEARS ago (when the Walther P99 came out, and the HK P2000) this should be upgraded on the Glocks as soon as they could.
> 
> Glock Austria insisted they knew better, i.e what we make is perfect.
> 
> They have now lost enough $$$$ over the M&P and XDm & other polymer guns which had these features suddenly the Glock Perfection became Glock Perfection version 4.0.
> 
> Glock Perfection version 4.0 solved very few of the problems.
> 
> I own 2 Glocks, and have for a dozen years.
> 
> Doesn't mean the company always knows what it's doing.
> 
> IMHO M&P and XDm surpassed them because it gave customers what they wanted in a reliable package without costing $700.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> :smt1099


Glock does have a loaded chamber indicator and it is a lot better than the M&P. Also, Glock has a cocked striker indicator.... it's called the trigger. When it is in its forward position, the striker is in its partially cocked condition.


----------



## Tuefelhunden

I'll throw a little wood on the fire. Caracal F and Caracal C. I want to try one of these badly. So far by all accounts it is a big win. If it is as good as it appears to be and if marketing and production can keep up with demand at a currently very reasonable price point this could put a dent in all of them. I know that is a lot of if's. I still want one and if I can't shake the desire will soon have one for T&E.


----------



## Nanuk

> Poor Grip angle
> Decent back strap system
> Has plastic sights - needs Metal sights - adjustable
> Decent slide serrations/grippiness.
> Full ambidextrous
> Removable back straps. (not til Gen 4)
> Grip angle. (oh I said that )
> Texturing that doesn't rip skin off
> Stainless steel slide
> Grip Safety
> Loaded chamber indicator or hole
> Cocked striker indicator
> Stainless steel sub-chassis
> Beefed up spring box (what Glock calls a guide ring)
> Robust MIM extractor
> Frame rails incorporated into the steel sear housing & locking blocks
> *Frame's "beaver-tail"*
> Revolver-like trigger shape
> Second spring in the striker assembly (striker return spring, like is used in the 99 series)
> Stainless steel guide rod
> Replaceable grip inserts that allow adjustment of both the backstrap and the palm swell dimension


Of your list I can only see one real issue and that is the beaver tail, even that is a personal choice. The rest of it is superfluous.


----------



## rjrudolph

I went to my local range and rented a Glock 26 and I loved it! All I have to say is I'm sold!


----------



## Steve M1911A1

How could a Glock be any good?
You can't have its frame color-case-hardened.

And think about how silly a Glock would look, shoved into your barbecue rig.

:anim_lol:


----------



## paratrooper

I own only one Glock. It's a 21C. Nice thing about Glocks, if they get scratched, it's not a big deal. It just adds character.


----------



## Overkill0084

Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


Seriously? You're not even going to try to be subtle about it?
You can't even do us the common courtesy of posing as a legit question?


----------



## Trekman

I have owned 2 Berreta 92FS's in the past and loved them. I now own a Kimber .45, a Sig Sauer M-11, a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum revolver. I never shot a Glock or never cared much for them as they are ugly and I was not a fan of the DA only trigger pull. I was looking for a reliable carry pistol with some nuts. I bought a Glock 30 and like it a lot. It does not feel as good as the Sig, but it sure pumps out the rounds with no issues. The trigger pull is easy to get used to.


----------



## RadarContact

Personally, I don't care how good GLOCK is. I have always liked things that weren't known to the masses. I heard a guy say he was gonna get a GLOCK, but didn't know what a striker fired weapon was, didn't know the difference between JHP & FMJ, or that .38 was about the same size as 9mm. But he knew he wanted a GLOCK! Made me SO HAPPY he didn't have any clue about my gun...an FNH FNX-9. Made me proud, actually, to own a gun that is truly wonderful but not a synonymous term for "gangster video weapon".
Not to take anything away from GLOCK, I'm sure they are great...I just never want to own one. Or a Camaro.


----------



## Shipwreck

denner said:


> Glock is better than many guns, so are: H&K, Sig, CZ, Beretta, Kahr, Ed brown, Colt, M&P, XDM, Walther, etc........They are all better than a Highpoint, but when you group all the better ones together it's purely a matter of subjective personal preference.


I agree with this :smt023


----------



## Daltini

Glocks are the best because I'm a noob and that's the only handgun I've shot or owned :| it's all relative


----------



## acepilot

You probably won't find a negative opinion on Glocks if you post in the Glock section of the forum. Are you just looking for a warm, fuzzy feeling because you perhaps own a Glock? Ask your question in the Sig or Ruger or Beretta sections and see what you get for answers.


----------



## VAMarine

acepilot said:


> You probably won't find a negative opinion on Glocks if you post in the Glock section of the forum. Are you just looking for a warm, fuzzy feeling because you perhaps own a Glock? Ask your question in the Sig or Ruger or Beretta sections and see what you get for answers.


Why? Just so it can be moved to the Glock forum?

We don't have many members that stick to on section of the forum.

When it comes to Glocks it usually tends to be a love or hate relationship.

Personally I'm king of lukewarm on them but I can see why so many like them.


----------



## kerrycork

My only glock, mod 19 I've had about one year and it has been shot a lot.It ain't pretty like my others but it functions well and puts bullets on the target and it is not any better than the others but I will keep it, at least for now.


----------



## acepilot

VAMarine said:


> Why? Just so it can be moved to the Glock forum?
> 
> We don't have many members that stick to on section of the forum.
> 
> When it comes to Glocks it usually tends to be a love or hate relationship.
> 
> Personally I'm king of lukewarm on them but I can see why so many like them.


That's what I was getting at. Most people who frequent the Glock section are probably Glock owners or at least Glock lovers. Most would then say they are the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## XD40inAVL

The only safety is on the trigger, what could possibly go wrong?


----------



## paratrooper

Nice thing about a Glock, is that when it's time to be cleaned, just stick it in the ole dishwasher.

Just be sure to put the dishwasher on _*pot scrubber*_ mode.

And, don't forget the Jet Dry. :smt023


----------



## Steve M1911A1

...And if you need spare parts, just phone Mattel. :yawinkle:


----------



## Newfenoix

Steve, all Glock mags drop free from the guns now.


----------



## Newfenoix

I won't say that the Glock is better than all other pistols but I will say that it MIGHT be the better choice in certain circumstances. I am a 1911 FANATIC. It is the only pistol that I have ever USED in combat. I have carried 1911A1's, M9's, HK USP .40's and S&W M65's. My current carry arm BY CHOICE is a Glock M22 Gen4. It is the first Glock that I have ever owned and I bought it two months ago. Some have said that the Glock is the best choice for those that seldom shoot a handgun. I disagree with this. I believe the Glock should be reserved for those that are handgun savvy. The Glock is TOO easy to use for rank beginners. I started shooting pistols at the age of 12 and my first was an old 1911A1. I am 50 now and have carried some type of pistol for most of my adult life. I carry the Glock because it fits my hand better than any pistol other than the 1911; it is compact for its firepower and I actually like the way it looks. I love guns but to me, a gun should be practical. You should be able to carry it in bad weather without worry. If I carry a 1911, it will be a stainless model. My rifles are all "black guns." I love the look of highly grained walnut and bright bluing but not in the field. Guns are tools and if I can't depend on it then I don't want it. If John Browning were alive today, his creations would resemble the new "plastic" guns. Why? Because he designed practical guns. The original prototypes for the High Power, his last design, were striker fired like the Glocks, XD's and M&P's. Opinions are opinions and if a pistol doesn't fit your hand then you don't need to try to use it. My wife uses a Sig P250 fullsize .40. It fits her hand better but it looks gigantic up against my fullsize Glock.


----------



## Kansan007

The Glock is a decent gun, probably one of my top five. I prefer the Beretta and the CZ mainly because I like a hammer fire pistol, but also the Glock just doesn't fit my hand as well. For striker fire I would likely go with an M&P because they are reliable, cheaper and American made. But if you like the Glock more power to you. They are very reliable and you can't go wrong with them.


----------



## Newfenoix

I have no problem with the USP. I was issued one with the HSPD and loved it.


----------



## zelch

Glocks are the Nike's of handguns,Glocks are ok but are far from being the best out there,I would own one at the right price but as far as I'm concerned,they're overated and overpriced,I know that the US military doesn't use them.


----------



## SouthernBoy

Removed by poster.


----------



## Cait43

It is only a matter of opinion whether Glocks are better than other guns.... Same as GM cars are better than other cars.......

The best weapon is the one that suits each owner to their personal preferences.....


----------



## northstar19

Patrick Sweeney, _Gun Digest_, "10 Advantages of the Glock." Check it out.


----------



## DeadSea

Map9690 said:


> Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.


Who said it's better then other guns?:smt102


----------



## Steve M1911A1

northstar19 said:


> Patrick Sweeney, _Gun Digest_, "10 Advantages of the Glock." Check it out.


Yeah, but note that he wasn't discussing, or even including, M1911s.
There are 25 advantages to them.


----------



## northstar19

Steve M1911A1, you would probably enjoy this article, then: <http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/11/11/featured_handguns_glock37_0305/>.
In which Chuck Taylor lauds the 1911 to the skies. Best combat gun ever made, etc. But then asks the question: And yet, is it possible that the Glock is -- EVEN better?
He was especially impressed by the Glock 37, in .45 GAP. Check it out, when you have time. Well written article.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Naaaahhh...
I never read articles which disagree with my preconceptions.

They might make me change my mind.


(BTW: The .45 GAP, a round that is difficult to find anywhere and which delivers no advantage over the .45 ACP, was created solely to make it possible for a Glock pistol to have a reasonably-sized, better-shaped grip than all of the other Glock pistols. The attempt was a failure.)


----------



## northstar19

Steve, thanks for your honesty.  Glocks work well for me. But (slightly off topic) if you were to recommend an entry-level firearm, to provide a Glock guy the 1911 experience, which would it be? (I haven't picked up a 1911 since the '80s.)


----------



## Steve M1911A1

I own three 1911s now, and have previously owned several more, but nothing I now own or have ever owned is newer than a Series 70 Colt's.
Therefore, I am the wrong person to ask. My reply would probably best be: "Buy a nice, old, gently-used, Series 70 Colt's."

The Series 80 pistols, and most non-Colt's clones, contain a useless and trigger-job-killing firing-pin safety.
The Series 70 guns include a peculiar form of barrel bushing that some people absolutely hate, but which has always worked very well for me. The parts of Series 70 guns, and all those older than they are, are completely interchangeable, including that peculiar bushing.

_All_ 1911s, new or old, need a trigger job. Include that in your price calculations.


----------



## MoMan

I'm not a fan of the Glock. Nothing against them, they just aren't for me. I tried to like them but couldn't get past the feel of the grip.
Like I said; nothing against them, just not for me. So I guess having said that, I would have to disagree with your assessment of them being better than other guns!


----------



## desertman

I never was crazy about plastic guns and detested the use of plastic parts in otherwise all steel guns especially in more expensive guns such as the Sig P229 Equinox and Sig P238 which I own. I've always replaced those parts with stainless steel components or aluminum if available. Don't know what came over me but I finally bought a Glock 26 Gen4 9mm, and liked it so much that I bought a G30 .45 two days later, my only gripe is that I can't, at least for the time being get additional magazines for the G30, preferably the 9 round as I don't like the big ugly floor plate on the 10 rounders, but it seems that the 10 rounders are also unavailable. C'mon Glock what gives? I'm surprised that there aren't, to my knowledge any aftermarket manufactures such as Mec-Gar, Pro-Mag, etc. making these magazines. I have had no trouble finding other parts and accessories for these pistols and I've already upgraded them with stainless steel ported barrels, pins, and recoil guides. While I do love my Glocks my favorite carry gun is the Kahr Mk40 which I've carried since the day I bought it.


----------



## rex

This is still going eh?The answer is still nothing that isn't built correctly,and Blocks are just better than Kimber.If you want out of the box performance,HK is about all there is if you want to shell out the added cozt.I digress.


----------



## pic

Savannah State University officer's gun discharges; bullet lodges in classroom
*Savannah State University officer's gun discharges; bullet lodges in classroom | savannahnow.com*


----------



## pic

glocks are going off all by themselves
"A gun belonging to a York County Sheriff's Office deputy accidentally discharged Monday morning outside York High School," charlotteobserver.com reports. "The gun discharged into a sidewalk at the school, on S.C. 5 a short distance east of S.C. 64." Naughty gun!
Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day: How's That Whole School Resource Officer Thing Working Out for You? | The Truth About Guns


----------



## pic

A Glock, by contrast, allows for no mistakes. Quite honestly, no gun does and all of them require proper storage, but guns with heavier triggers and more complex manual safeties are more forgiving because they do some of the operator’s thinking for him or her. After all, that is what a safety is intended to do. It stops the user from firing the gun unintentionally, even if the trigger is pulled. The Glock, by contrast, does none of the thinking for the operator.

The Glock’s light trigger does not slow down the user. A heavier trigger pull provides a psycho-physical barrier in the form of the greater force required to move through it. This greater force likely reduces the risk of negligent discharge because the user must, on a heavier double-action, both pull a heavy trigger and move the finger across a wider arc. This provides two mental stimuli to the effect of, "Hey, you’re pulling the trigger on the gun. Did you mean to do that?"


----------



## Shipwreck

WIth the exception of some garbage brands - most of the time - no gun is "better" than the other. Some are better for one person - choice wise. But the gun itself is typically not "better."

Some multi thousand guns that can shoot 1" groups or less at 25 yards might be able to be argued s "better." But that kind of accuracy usually comes at a price - having the baby the gun a bit more.

For straight "combat" type guns... Glocks, XDs, M&Ps, P99s, Berettas, etc... The only BETTER is the gun you like the best. 

That is all 

Same reasonw e have tons of brands and models of cars - we have the same with guns. My opinion of the "better" gun will not match yours. Nor will my opinion NOW match what I thought was the best gun 10 years ago...


----------



## Pistol Pete

The Glock isn't better than other guns. Mr. Glock is a great salesman though.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

pistol pete said:


> The Glock isn't better than other guns. Mr. Glock is a great salesman though.


*Bingo!*


----------



## Smitty79

I understand Glocks, CZ's, M&Ps... as combat guns and 1911's as range/competition guns. Why would you give up 5 rounds in the gun (G21 with 14 as a opposed to 1911 with 9) to get your 25 yd group an inch smaller in a fighting gun. 1911's feel good in the hand. Better than Glocks. But it isn't enough to give up the safety margin of a few more rounds. Besides, there are lots of double stack steel guns that you can pick from. How many militaries or police forces use 1911's?


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Smitty79 said:


> I understand Glocks, CZ's, M&Ps... as combat guns and 1911's as range/competition guns. Why would you give up 5 rounds in the gun (G21 with 14 as a opposed to 1911 with 9) to get your 25 yd group an inch smaller in a fighting gun. 1911's feel good in the hand. Better than Glocks. But it isn't enough to give up the safety margin of a few more rounds. Besides, there are lots of double stack steel guns that you can pick from. *How many militaries or police forces use 1911's?* [emphasis added]


My understanding of the "demise" of the 1911 in the military had more to do with the "universal" adoption of the 9mm pistol cartridge, and the equally "universal" adoption of the Traditional-Double-Action (TDA) trigger system for perceived "safety" reasons.

Until those decisions were finalized, the 1911 platform was used by the military of _at least_ the following nations: US, Norway, Argentina, Mexico, Belgium, Bolivia, Greece, Liberia, Philippines, Great Britain, and Canada.

Now that the deficiencies of the FMJ 9mm cartridge in combat are becoming more clear, several nations are reverting to the 1911 platform, at least for the use of special-purpose troops. The list includes: US, Bangladesh, China (Taiwan), Hong Kong, Luxembourg, Malaysia, South Korea, and Thailand.

Hundreds of state, county, and local police agencies in the US permit their officers to carry the 1911 (or some other .45 ACP pistol), requiring only that these officers regularly qualify with their chosen pistol. The list of such agencies would be too long to print here, but it includes Beverly Hills and Culver City, CA, and San Juan County, WA.


----------



## Donn

Nice weather we're having.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Donn said:


> Nice weather we're having.


Obviously you don't live in western Washington State. :yawinkle:


----------



## Smitty79

Depends on your definition of nice. 55 degrees and a light drizzle is just fine for me. Terrible think happened. Sun came out this afternoon near Portland.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

Here now too, after a couple of days of really dreary fog.

What is that big, round, orange-colored thing, up there in the sky?


(I wonder if I could hit it, with one of my very accurate 1911s. :smt083)


----------



## Smitty79

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Here now too, after a couple of days of really dreary fog.
> 
> What is that big, round, orange-colored thing, up there in the sky?
> 
> (I wonder if I could hit it, with one of my very accurate 1911s. :smt083)


The sun subtends 31 MOA. Even a junk 1911 can do that.


----------



## Ksgunner

Smitty79 said:


> *I understand Glocks, CZ's, M&Ps... as combat guns and 1911's as range/competition guns*. Why would you give up 5 rounds in the gun (G21 with 14 as a opposed to 1911 with 9) to get your 25 yd group an inch smaller in a fighting gun. 1911's feel good in the hand. Better than Glocks. But it isn't enough to give up the safety margin of a few more rounds. Besides, there are lots of double stack steel guns that you can pick from. How many militaries or police forces use 1911's?


I would wager there has been a lot more 1911's used in combat than Glocks...just sayin


----------



## rex

No doubt.The Glock hasn't been around long enough to come close.

Still surprised this is still going.


----------



## smitty901

The only reason Glock were used by LE is they were told to. Glock sold the weapons dirt cheap to built hype.
I can buy any Glock right now through a program I can use That sells any model to LE for 350 two mags and no other cost. .
Glock is an ok weapon it is by no means great or as good as many others out there. Take away the subsidized LE sales and their market share sucks.
They are a fat brick with there own trigger issues depending on model and when it was made.


----------



## rex

:watching: Lets not let this get into the pissin' match it was previously if it keeps running please,and most know I'm no Glock fan. :smt170


----------



## donk123

wow! this caused quite a debate. nobody can deny glocks are reliable. what it all comes down to is personal preference. some like the angle of them,others hate them. have seen quite a few complaints about the "mushy" trigger. i got used to it in no time. i did not like the gen3 grips at all and wouldn't have bought one if they didn't change them. i have a g19 gen4 and love it. no problems after 600 rounds. also got beavertail grips with mine. don't know when they started to ship them with those but i use the medium beaver grip. think it is a great carry piece,no external safeties to remember. threw it all over the place with snap cap in and it never went off. i love mine but i can see how others wouldn't.


----------



## desertman

I don't know if Glocks are any better than any of the other quality guns on the market, I like an awful lot of them, and often found myself buying guns because I do in fact like the way they look, feel and function, same can be said for certain machine tools. I also like the looks and function of engines, with their finely machined parts all working together in harmony to accomplish their given task. The nice thing about guns is that you do not need an airplane hanger to store them all, and they're quite a bit lighter. I guess it all boils down to what works best for each individual, and if at all possible buy a variety of guns, but then you have the problem deciding which ones to carry. That being said I do like my Glocks, it took me a while to get around to buying one, I swore I'd never buy one based on their looks, until I picked up and handled a G26, there was just something about it that I liked, so I bought it, went out and shot it, and bought a G30 two days later. Now I think they're kind of cool looking, with the exception of the magazine floor plate, easy as hell to take apart without any special tools and to my surprise tons of aftermarket parts. I've already outfitted mine with stainless steel barrels, pins, guide rods, aluminum triggers and TRUGLO Tritium/Fiber Optic Sights.


----------



## Steve M1911A1

desertman said:


> ...I've already outfitted mine with stainless steel barrels, pins, guide rods, aluminum triggers and TRUGLO Tritium/Fiber Optic Sights.


Truth: My 1911s are all modified in various ways, and all of our "unmodified" guns have had at least a polish job and some trigger-parts buffing-except a S&W snubbie, which came to us so well set-up that we left it alone.

But still...

It seems to me that a Glock pistol judged to be "better than other guns" should not need a different barrel, different pins, a different guide rod, a different trigger, and different sights than the parts with which it originally arrived.

(Bear in mind that my comment is meant to be snarky, not argumentative, and seeks only to exploit the unconscious ironic humor contained within the stated concept of this thread.)


----------



## VAMarine

Well Steve, you have to take into account that even after all that you still come in under the cost of another gun that doesn't even have any upgrades


----------



## natsb

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Truth: My 1911s are all modified in various ways, and all of our "unmodified" guns have had at least a polish job and some trigger-parts buffing-except a S&W snubbie, which came to us so well set-up that we left it alone.
> 
> But still...
> 
> It seems to me that a Glock pistol judged to be "better than other guns" should not need a different barrel, different pins, a different guide rod, a different trigger, and different sights than the parts with which it originally arrived.
> 
> (Bear in mind that my comment is meant to be snarky, not argumentative, and seeks only to exploit the unconscious ironic humor contained within the stated concept of this thread.)


That cracked me up. I have been presented with lots of these "best shooting" and "most reliable" Glocks that actually have very little Glock factory content at all.

This question is not just directed at Glocks, but is there some point when a gun can no longer be declared by its OEM name? For instance, I was once shown a Glock that was so upgraded, that the only original part was the poly lower. Is it still a Glock? I have seen many a 1911 in the similar circumstance.


----------



## desertman

Steve M1911A1:
Actually the guns (Glocks) were fine right out of the box, I've just got to tinker, can't help myself, due to my fascination with mechanical objects, and auto restoration. Most of my upgrades were for aesthetics, about the only gun I haven't done anything to is my Sig P229 Equinox, a work of art unto itself. As far as them (Glocks) being better than other guns, I've got plenty to choose from, and I enjoy shooting and tinkering with every one of them. I have some that really serve no practical purpose, other than to me they're cool, (Bond Arms Snakeslayer, Henry Mare's Leg, NAA Mini Revolvers). Besides, if no one bought any aftermarket parts and gun smithing tools think of all the jobs that would be lost. I consider myself to be fortunate enough that I have the skills to be able to perform all of my own work on both firearms and antique cars, and not have to rely on other people and the problems that entails.


----------



## dondavis3

@ Steve M1911A1

I totally agree with you - I've owned several Glocks and they all need lots of changes to make them "nice".

:smt1099


----------



## Steve M1911A1

desertman said:


> ..._f no one bought any aftermarket parts and gun smithing tools think of all the jobs that would be lost..._


_
You're correct, of course.
And, in the spirit of my snarky comment, yours is probably funnier.

Thanks for adding nicely to the irony, and for not getting upset at my snarking._


----------



## desertman

Steve M1911A1:
It's all in good fun. I've got to get back to "tinkering".


----------



## Glock Doctor

Suddenly I'm thirsty. Who's got the Kool-Aid? :smt002

(And, donk, I will deny that Glocks are reliable. All I'll give Glock, GmbH/Inc. is that a Glock CAN BE reliable; but, that's not the same thing, now, is it. NONE of my brand new Glock pistols were 100% reliable right out of their clamshell cases; in fact, both of my 3rd generation G-21's were, 'kaBoom! specials'; and, until the original trigger bars were replaced, they remained extremely dangerous to use.)

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html


----------

