# Wheeled Shooter



## TXWheeledShooter (Mar 14, 2010)

Hey everyone,

I have a unique question that hopefully someone will be able to answer. I'm an avid shooter. Without bragging, I'm pretty good with a rifle and I'm learning with the shotgun. However, no matter how hard I try, I still miss the target completely with a pistol. Since I'm in a wheelchair, and on a completely different level than most, my line of sight is completely different. Even though it seems like the sights are lined up before I shoot, I end up missing. I'm ultimately going to have a laser sight, but that won't help me when I try and get a CHL.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Welcome to the forum! :smt023

To be honest, at this point, the laser sight isn't going to do anything for you. Odds are you DO have the sights lined up right before pulling the trigger. I would highly suggest a Basic Handgun Course, or some type of training to get you started. If you don't want to go that route, invest in a LOT of ammo, read a LOT about shooting handguns, and go from there. Shooting a handgun is completely different as you probably already know. My guess is that you're jerking the trigger.

Here's my suggestion for your next range visit. If you can, have someone else load your magazines for you placing snap caps randomly in the magazines. When you get the one, you will see exactly what is happening when you pull that trigger. This has helped many people I know, including myself. Nowadays, I still do this to keep up with my practice, but I also use it as a drill to unload a bad round.

Either way, good luck. :smt023


----------



## Gunners_Mate (Feb 17, 2010)

Beefy thats a fantastic idea, I'm definitely taking that to heart. 

my only suggestion is that the sights of hand guns are typically set up to where if you and the target are dead even height and the sights are aiming center of mass the barrel is actually pointing a little south of where your sights are showing. this compensates for recoil, by the time the projectile leaves the barrel the recoil has lined the barrel up with your former sight picture. 

you being at a lower stance and possibly aiming upwards towards a higher target might be exaggerating the effect, putting rounds above the target. 

other than that all I can say is compensate. shoot one round at a time, see where it goes, and adjust your aim point. if your good with a rifle then you should have this concept down, and the concepts of trigger squeeze and sight picture as well. I can't think of any reason why picking up a hand gun would be difficult.


----------



## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

If your shots group low and to the left most likely you are jerking the trigger instead of squeezing it.

If your shots group high to the left - say in the 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock position - you are probably anticipating the recoil and pushing the firearm up. This is called "riding the recoil". Groups in this area are also caused by lack of follow-through.

If your group is consistent at about 9 o'clock you most likely do not have your finger on the trigger properly. You are probably squeezing at an angle instead of straight back.

If you group is high to the right you may be "heeling" the firearm - anticipating the recoil and pushing with the heel of your hand.

If your shots group fairly consistently to the right in the 3 o'clock area you are probably "thumbing" the gun. That is, as the gun goes off you are pushing on the side of the frame with your thumb.

If your group is consistently low, say in the 6 o'clock area, you may be "breaking" your wrist, that is, anticipating the recoil and cocking the wrist down. Low shots also come from improper follow-through when the shooter relaxes too quickly.

If all the shots are hitting right, low, say in the 4 to 5 o'clock area, you may be tightening your grip just as the gun fires. This is another form of anticipating recoil.

The above assumes a right handed shooter.

http://www.is-lan.com/challenge/imag...Correction.pdf


----------



## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

TXWheeledShooter said:


> However, no matter how hard I try, I still miss the target completely with a pistol.


What distance are you shooting at? Move the target closer until you hit paper. You can't figure out what you are doing if you don't know in which direction you are missing.


----------



## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

TXWheeledShooter said:


> . . .Since I'm in a wheelchair, and on a completely different level than most, my line of sight is completely different. Even though it seems like the sights are lined up before I shoot, I end up missing. I'm ultimately going to have a laser sight, but that won't help me when I try and get a CHL. . .


Some comments. In my usual style. Totally WORDY.

1st. If you have the sights lined up "properly", it should make no (OK, very, very little) difference if the target is below, above, or level with your eyes.
Not to be snarky, but that's just basic physics. Uh, and I meant basic "geometry" too. 
We are talking fairly close-in pistol stuff, I think. The subject of longer range rifle "sighting", "elevation", and "bullet flight" is different.
Since you seem to be consistently missing your point of aim, something else is going on.

2nd. If you are "doing it right", the bullet leaves the gun before "recoil movement" occurs. Yes, I know someone above doesn't agree with "that".
Let's set that aside for now, and leave it for "another thread" on whether recoil can significantly affect "bullet flight".
The "suggestion" that you are "jerking the trigger"or "flinching" is the mostly likely cause for your "lack of success".

3rd. The "random snap cap" during live fire suggestion above is "just REALLY excellent" for checking if you are "jerking". And, snap caps are fairly cheap.

4th. I also "disagree a bit" on whether the laser sight is "useful". With snap caps, it is a great training tool for "trigger control" while dry-firing.
Just make triple sure the gun is dry. And, don't point it at your TV. And, MAKE SURE NOTHING is down-range.

When you use actual ammo, and you are getting the real-time recoil, you can REALLY tell if you are jerking before the bullet leaves the gun.
The bullet is GOING TO GO where the laser points when the bullet leaves the barrel.

5th. I don't know about where you live, and "your laws" or instructor requirements. Maybe in your location or instructors,
they want (require ?) you to "learn with purity" before using a laser. Nothing wrong with that. Just turn off your laser.

6th. Many people make "much ado" about "what if the battery goes dead". So what ! The gun still works.
My S&W snubby with CT grips I got last fall has been dry-fired thousands of times. And, the batteries were still working.
I replaced them as a precaution. Based on time. Just like I don't wait on my smoke detectors "sqawking".

The laser made a HUGE difference in my "snubby accuracy" WAY OUT past what would be the "normal snubby engagement distance".
I couldn't hit anything at 25 yards before while playing "target revolver". Now I can.
More importantly, I can "pick up" multiple targets very fast and really well while playing "realistic training".
Dry fire or live, this quick "target acquisition" practice is good training.

7th. If people agree or disagree with the things above, I'm willing to listen. Someone may change my opinions. 
These items are just my two cents worth for your consideration. Your mileage may differ. :smt1099


----------



## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

^^First, what's with all of the quotes? :numbchuck:

I disagree about the laser being a help only because in my experience I've seen it greatly hurt new shooters in the learning process. Maybe we should leave THIS to another thread to, but if he's new to handguns, he's a "new shooter" IMO. The learning curve is different and I've seen new shooters rely way too much on the laser. If he does drills with snap caps, he's not going to need the laser to tell him what's happening. Most times I've done this for myself and others, you'll see exactly where that gun went after you pulled the trigger. You'll see yourself flinch, jerk the gun, try to compensate for the recoil, etc. In most cases, the one with the gun feels like an idiot afterward, and that's part of the process. :anim_lol: I've seen too many people rely on a laser for learning, then have absolutely no idea how to shoot a gun when I hand them one without a laser.

I'm NOT saying that lasers are a bad tool. They can and will help some people. BUT, I think they should be introduced as an aid after the initial learning curve is over. That's my .02 :smt1099

tumbleweed


----------



## TXWheeledShooter (Mar 14, 2010)

*Thanks for the advice*

I know for a fact I jerk before the recoil. My friend snuck a snap cap in his pistol once without me knowing and saw that I was jerking the gun up. That, plus trying to aim higher because of my height, probably throws me off target. I will try better finger placement, a smoother pull, and a lower aim.


----------



## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

1. If you have not yet done so have an experienced pistol shooter make certain your sights are set accurately. Have the experienced individual tell you what sight picture they use in testing your gun.

2. Aim at the spot you want to hit, not above not below or to the side. "Compensating" will simply embed erroneous practices which will be very difficult to break later.

3. Dry fire practice aiming at a spot not very far away will help. Empty gun of course.

4. Using good ear muffs to reduce sound level will help reduce flinching. Noise can be a bigger factor than physical recoil.

5. Using a .22 with minimum recoil and noise will help you get started if available.

What size boomer are you starting out with? If it is a .357, .44Mag or any of the various big boomers try to find some light loads till you become a bit more practiced.

Remember one thing about your height while shooting. It matters not whether you are laying on the ground, sitting in a chair or standing up your sights work the same. 

One other correction of miss information from above: Recoil begins the moment the bullet begins to move not after it exits the barrel. One reason different ammo makes a difference in POI is different velocities equal different barrel time for the bullet resulting in differing movement of the barrel prior to exit.

Welcome to the world of handguns and enjoy while you learn.


----------

