# And the Showdown Begins....



## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Well as some of you know I've been wanting to get a G36 (after having shot one) to do a little side-by-side with my XD9SC before my CHP arrives. I sold my XD9 Service today, and within 2 1/2 hours had purchased a G36 (found a good deal locally). Anyways, I'm excited to get out to the range with the new G36! I already field stripped it and cleaned it up. I'm going to make a run to Walmart, purchase some ammo, and off to the range I go! (after having a heartattack because I'm used to 9mm ammo prices :mrgreen. I'm not going to do a side-by-side today, I'm only going to shoot the G36 (I want to get in atleast one range session for trigger time on the G36 before doing my comparison tests). So, I just wanted to share, and I will update when I return from the range! :smt023

-Jeff-


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## Dsig1 (Dec 23, 2007)

Very nice. I envy your complete lack of will power :anim_lol:


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

Congrats! :smt023


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

XD traitor! :numbchuck::numbchuck::numbchuck:


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Dark Side. :mrgreen:


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## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

Nice aquisition. Enjoy it.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

congratulations.
Next you must purchase an M&P then you will be well rounded. :mrgreen:

Enjoy


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Dsig1 said:


> Very nice. I envy your complete lack of will power :anim_lol:


What is this "will power" you speak of? :mrgreen:



unpecador said:


> Congrats!


Thanks! :smt023



Todd said:


> XD traitor! :numbchuck::numbchuck::numbchuck:


I was wondering if it would be you or _JeffWard_ that was going to have the honors. :numbchuck::anim_lol:



Mike Barham said:


> Welcome to the Dark Side. :mrgreen:


What is this "Dark Side" that you speak of? :smt083:smt033



TOF said:


> congratulations.
> Next you must purchase an M&P then you will be well rounded.


Thanks! I know, if I got an M&P, I'd have the whole trio! :anim_lol: I'm going to have to keep these two away from each other, they might pick fights with one another. :numbchuck::anim_lol:

-Jeff-


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

BeefyBeefo said:


> I'm going to have two keep these two away from each other, they might pick fights with one another.


The Glock would win.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, the range trip was interesting to say the least. First impression - I like it! You can definitely tell you're shooting 45's out of this little cannon, but the recoil is by no means overwhelming...it's actually very controllable. It just blows my mind that I can pick up a gun (the G36) that I have basically no trigger time with, and out-shoot a firearm that I have many rounds through and lots of dry-fire time with (the XD9SC). I did have the XD with me, so after shooting the G36, I took out the XD to put 15 loose rounds through it that I had in my bag. After shooting the Glock, the trigger on the XD was disappointing to say the least. This is especially true for the reset in the trigger which felt like it was a mile long on the XD after shooting the Glock. Anyways, I put 100 rounds of Blazer Brass through the G36 without any issues (as expected) and it was definitely an experience. This showdown is going to take a while, and I want to do some good side-by-side comparisons at my next range visits. I will definitely keep everyone posted. :smt023

-Jeff-

My third magazine (6rds) through the G36 at 25 feet.


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## Dredd (Feb 22, 2008)

BeefyBeefo said:


> Well, the range trip was interesting to say the least. First impression - I like it! You can definitely tell you're shooting 45's out of this little cannon, but the recoil is by no means overwhelming...it's actually very controllable. It just blows my mind that I can pick up a gun (the G36) that I have basically no trigger time with, and out-shoot a firearm that I have many rounds through and lots of dry-fire time with (the XD9SC). I did have the XD with me, so after shooting the G36, I took out the XD to put 15 loose rounds through it that I had in my bag. After shooting the Glock, the trigger on the XD was disappointing to say the least. This is especially true for the reset in the trigger which felt like it was a mile long on the XD after shooting the Glock. Anyways, I put 100 rounds of Blazer Brass through the G36 without any issues (as expected) and it was definitely an experience. This showdown is going to take a while, and I want to do some good side-by-side comparisons at my next range visits. I will definitely keep everyone posted. :smt023
> 
> -Jeff-


That's how I felt when I got my first 1911. All I could say was "wow...this thing shoots well".

Glad you like it. I love my Glocks, but I don't venture into the .40 and .45 variants. Just a G17 and G19 which I feel are the best of the lineup anyhow. :mrgreen:


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

BeefyBeefo said:


> My third magazine (6rds) through the G36 at 25 feet.


Looks like you have it under control. :smt023


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Dredd said:


> That's how I felt when I got my first 1911. All I could say was "wow...this thing shoots well".
> 
> Glad you like it. I love my Glocks, but I don't venture into the .40 and .45 variants. Just a G17 and G19 which I feel are the best of the lineup anyhow. :mrgreen:


That's the funniest part of all of this. Generally the XD's feel better to me than the Glocks (17,19,23,etc). This G36, being that it's single-stack (and I have small hands) trumps both. It has a very "natural" feeling in my hands (if that makes sense).



TOF said:


> Looks like you have it under control. :smt023


It still blows my mind that I could pickup an "unfamiliar" weapon and group my shots better than the weapon that I have trained with and have a lot of trigger time with. This showdown is going to get interesting. :smt033

-Jeff-


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Have you ever tried an M&P with the small grip insert?


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

TOF said:


> Have you ever tried an M&P with the small grip insert?


I believe so. At two separate gun shops (in Iowa), I was told that all M&Ps displayed had the small grip insert "installed." It's been a while since I've held one, but at the time the XDs definitely felt better. Then again, I didn't have all of the inserts in front of me to verify which inserts were "installed." Maybe I'll have to give it another try next time I'm at the shop. For now, I'm_ loving_ the feel of this G36. :smt023 Follow-up shots were extremely fast as well...

-Jeff-


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I chose the XD9SC, over the XD45C, based on follow-up speed.

PS... I fully support your feelings on the Glock Reset... now that I've shot the new M&P Pro with it's micro-short reset (and a Glock 34). The new FACTORY M&P (much better than the first M&Ps I shot a few years ago by the way...) trigger is almost as good as my $200 custom-shop XD trigger. With 1000 through it, I'm sure it would be just as sweet.

With its very low bore axis, interchangable grips (for small hands), and super-short reset... I'd HATE to see *MIKE *shoot one... He may become a new M&P owner...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Jeff


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffWard said:


> I'd HATE to see *MIKE *shoot one... He may become a new M&P owner...


I've shot one and handled a few, but never tried the Pro. I'm actually not crazy about the way the M&P sits in my hand, but that may be simply because I am habituated to the Glock. I'm also pretty well invested in the Glock, in terms of mags and holsters and such. I'm not currently enough of a gun enthusiast to make a change, especially in light of whatever forthcoming gun/magazine restrictions emanate from the Obama Administration.


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

Mike Barham said:


> I've shot one and handled a few, but never tried the Pro. I'm actually not crazy about the way the M&P sits in my hand, but that may be simply because I am habituated to the Glock. I'm also pretty well invested in the Glock, in terms of mags and holsters and such. I'm not currently enough of a gun enthusiast to make a change, especially in light of whatever forthcoming gun/magazine restrictions emanate from the Obama Administration.


Good enough reason to go GLOCK alone... There will be a long supply of Glock parts around even if all semiautos are grandfathered and outlawed... After all, a revolver is MUCH less deadly than an "assult style" 17-round automatic... :anim_lol:

This is the direction we may be headed people...


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## BigMatt (Sep 4, 2008)

makes me want a 36 even more!


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

JeffWard said:


> I chose the XD9SC, over the XD45C, based on follow-up speed.


Yea, believe it or not I was thinking of you as I was contemplating this showdown because I read all about your decision. Although I don't have a timer or anything, my follow-up shots with the G36 certainly didn't feel any slower and were not scattered any more than rapid fire with my XDSC.



JeffWard said:


> PS... I fully support your feelings on the Glock Reset... now that I've shot the new M&P Pro with it's micro-short reset (and a Glock 34). The new FACTORY M&P (much better than the first M&Ps I shot a few years ago by the way...) trigger is almost as good as my $200 custom-shop XD trigger. With 1000 through it, I'm sure it would be just as sweet.


It was actually rather disappointing shooting the XD after the Glock. The Glock trigger is much better, IMO. I think this is part of the reason my follow-up shots don't seem any slower....



JeffWard said:


> With its very low bore axis, interchangable grips (for small hands), and super-short reset... I'd HATE to see *MIKE *shoot one... He may become a new M&P owner...


I'll have to get my hands on one of these again, and make sure it has the small backstrap in place. You never know, I just _might_ end up with the whole trio. :anim_lol: Talk about the ultimate showdown! :smt033



Mike Barham said:


> ...whatever forthcoming gun/magazine restrictions emanate from the Obama Administration.


Yes, this could suck. Although, my Cougar is my only firearm now that has a magazine capacity of over 10.  No worries with the 6+1 G36. :smt033

-Jeff-


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

I believe that many of the same holsters that fit the Glock 19/23 will also fit the Glock 36. You might want to check with our resident holster experts on this, but when I had a 36 I was given the above information, puchased a glock 19 holster for it, and life was good. I then sold my Glock 36 and bought a Glock 23 and life was better (still use the same holster for it though).


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

jeb21 said:


> I believe that many of the same holsters that fit the Glock 19/23 will also fit the Glock 36. You might want to check with our resident holster experts on this, but when I had a 36 I was given the above information, puchased a glock 19 holster for it, and life was good.


I just ordered a holster from Galco today for my G36 (Side Snap Scabbard). When I spoke with Bill (_Old Padawan_) he said that this holds true for some leather holsters, but not holsters like the "Matrix" series which are thermoplastic.



jeb21 said:


> I then sold my Glock 36 and bought a Glock 23 and life was better (still use the same holster for it though).


Just out of curiosity, what made you get rid of the G36? So far, I love this thing!

-Jeff-


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

I will never like the Glock 36 as much as the 1911-A1. But I do like it, and have kept mine. I think it makes an good CCW gun. I have absolutely no complaints about mine. Good shooting.


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

Jeff, the Glock 36 was a bit too small for my hands and the recoil was a bit too stiff for me to make relatively fast follow up shots. Other than those two concerns the weapon was great.

I put about 250 rounds through it with no problems at all. In fact the first time I shot it was at a local IDPA match. The sadistic match designers had us shooting strong hand only while dragging an 80 dummy backwards. Shooting weak hand only around a barricade, and shooting from the recline position. It was not until the final stage that we actually shot the weapon with two hands. Through it all the 36 was great. My accuracy was more than acceptable though my time was fairly slow, even for me. 

I ultimatly traded the 36 away and purchased a 23 because the 23 fit me a bit better. The recoil was more manageable for me. The increased magazine capacity was nice as well.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Teuthis said:


> I will never like the Glock 36 as much as the 1911-A1. But I do like it, and have kept mine. I think it makes an good CCW gun. I have absolutely no complaints about mine. Good shooting.


I do love the feel of the 1911, but I personally would never carry one. So, as a CCW this is a great option for me. I like the feel with the single-stack, and magazine capacity doesn't worry me too much.



jeb21 said:


> Jeff, the Glock 36 was a bit too small for my hands and the recoil was a bit too stiff for me to make relatively fast follow up shots. Other than those two concerns the weapon was great.
> 
> I put about 250 rounds through it with no problems at all. In fact the first time I shot it was at a local IDPA match. The sadistic match designers had us shooting strong hand only while dragging an 80 dummy backwards. Shooting weak hand only around a barricade, and shooting from the recline position. It was not until the final stage that we actually shot the weapon with two hands. Through it all the 36 was great. My accuracy was more than acceptable though my time was fairly slow, even for me.
> 
> I ultimatly traded the 36 away and purchased a 23 because the 23 fit me a bit better. The recoil was more manageable for me. The increased magazine capacity was nice as well.


Thanks for the info, _jeb21_. I have small hands for a guy, so the size of the G36 is great for me. I actually find that follow-up shots are surprisingly fast, and the recoil isn't very harsh. I guess everyone "feels" recoil differently, but I think it's very controllable. This just goes to show that *everyone* is different, because I personally dislike the 40S&W round, and enjoy shooting a 45 much more. I appreciate your input. :smt023

-Jeff-


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## jeb21 (Jun 10, 2008)

You are welcome, best of luck with your new gun. 

On a side note I do wish that the 45 GAP round would gain more of a following. It seems to be the round that the 40 cal wanted to be. The few times I fired a full sized glock in the GAP caliber I was really impressed.


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## tekhead1219 (May 16, 2008)

Todd said:


> XD traitor! :numbchuck::numbchuck::numbchuck:


+1...:buttkick:


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

jeb21 said:


> On a side note I do wish that the 45 GAP round would gain more of a following. It seems to be the round that the 40 cal wanted to be. The few times I fired a full sized glock in the GAP caliber I was really impressed.


I've never fired a 45GAP before. I have no interest in it, especially considering the price of the ammo, but I would be interested to shoot one some time.



tekhead1219 said:


> +1...:buttkick:


I wouldn't call myself an XD traitor _yet_, although at this point, it might be very likely. :smt033 Either way, I will likely not sell the XDSC. Since I traded off my extended 16-round magazine, I will likely purchase some of the extended magazines and use the XD as a nightstand gun/back-up carry. This is assuming that the G36 wins the showdown, which at this point, it is in the lead. I still have a lot of shooting to do before my CHP arrives though. :smt1099

-Jeff-


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

Nice write-up! Ok I'll admit it.. I can't bare to look at a glock but every one I've had the opportunity to shoot was pretty darn nice... It's a "turn the lights off" scenario I guess. (sorry.. it was there) :mrgreen: I'll add though I like the sub's with the short frames like yours.. The full-frame jobs seem to accentuate that "glock angle" to me more.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

babs said:


> Nice write-up! Ok I'll admit it.. I can't bare to look at a glock but every one I've had the opportunity to shoot was pretty darn nice... It's a "turn the lights off" scenario I guess. (sorry.. it was there) :mrgreen: I'll add though I like the sub's with the short frames like yours.. The full-frame jobs seem to accentuate that "glock angle" to me more.


I think the glocks are good looking in their own right, but they are tools before anything else. I want reliable handguns, and those that I own fit very well into that category. :smt023

I will probably be taking the G36 and the XD9SC to the range together tomorrow, with about 50 rounds for each (can't afford much more right now). So, I will probably have another update tomorrow. I have reached the final exam phase for a police department in the area and my Oral Board and written exams are tomorrow, early in the morning. Hence, the probably of my going to the range tomorrow afternoon - to release the anxiety from the interview. :smt033 Wish me luck! :smt033

-Jeff-


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## babs (Nov 30, 2007)

BeefyBeefo said:


> Wish me luck! :smt033


Tear up them exams man! :smt1099


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

babs said:


> Tear up them exams man! :smt1099


Thanks. :smt023

I think it went well this morning. As always, once you leave you think of others things you woulda, coulda, shoulda said...but I think that's pretty normal. I think they responded well to my answers/input (I sure hope so). Now, I wait to see how I scored in comparison to the others, as the top 3 is the spot to be (3 position openings). Supposed to get a letter in about 2 weeks with that information. :smt069

Not sure if I'll make it to the range for more of the showdown today, but we'll see. :smt033

-Jeff-:watching:


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, sort of a revival of the dead here, but this is the best place for this since it follows up my previous posts in this thread.

I went and put 100 rounds through my G36 today. I used BB 230gr from WM. Things were going well until I had an issue after shot #34. The gun failed to return to battery, so I smacked the back of the slide foward, and then proceeded to try to pull back the slide...nothing. The gun was jammed up pretty good, but in fear of breaking something, I went and got one of the workers. He took a hard grip of the slide and cycled out the live round, but it took some force. I'm sure everything would have been fine if I had pulled the trigger, but I didn't want to risk it. I'm not past my 500 round break-in for trusting the gun yet, so it doesn't bother me _that_ much, but my internal dilemma follows.

I know this issue is most commonly attributed to limp-wristing. I may have been, and that's fine, but the issue goes beyond that. Self-defense situations will often not allow for a firm grip, and I fear that this could be an issue with this weapon. I will fire at least another 300 rounds through it before I make a determination, but I feel as though this may not be a wise choice. If I could not get a firm grip on this gun in a situation where it is needed, I'm afraid it will jam. If I could grab a G26 and that would not happen, then I may have to go another route, but I don't know if that's the case or not.

Having said all that, I finished the session at short range rapid fire of about 50 rounds to see how it would handle that, and it was fine. I actually had to let the gun cool down for about 15 minutes before I put it back in the case. That was all done with a normal/firm grip. I am going to have to do some testing where I purposely do not have a great grip on the gun and see how it goes.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I covered everything. This could be attributed to break-in, but I wanted to get some viewpoints on this anyways. Anyone have any comments/ideas/suggestions?

-Jeff-


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## kev74 (Mar 22, 2008)

I don't think I'd be so quick to blame the gun - especially when using cheepie ammo. If the gun didn't return to battery and then was difficult to rack the slide afterward, it would lead me to think the cartridge wasn't fitting nicely into the chamber. I would be more apt to blame a dinged up cartridge or a bit of funk/dirt clogging up the works. If it was just limp-wristing, there would be no reason for the slide to be stuck when you tried to rack it.  

In any case, a good through cleaning and inspection would be prudent. And you did the right thing by not trying to fire the stuck cartridge. Depending how stuck it was, you might have had a pretty good pressure spike in the chamber - not good!


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

kev74 said:


> I don't think I'd be so quick to blame the gun - especially when using cheepie ammo. If the gun didn't return to battery and then was difficult to rack the slide afterward, it would lead me to think the cartridge wasn't fitting nicely into the chamber. I would be more apt to blame a dinged up cartridge or a bit of funk/dirt clogging up the works. If it was just limp-wristing, there would be no reason for the slide to be stuck when you tried to rack it.
> 
> In any case, a good through cleaning and inspection would be prudent. And you did the right thing by not trying to fire the stuck cartridge. Depending how stuck it was, you might have had a pretty good pressure spike in the chamber - not good!


Thanks for the input.

That was actually something I thought about earlier, but forgot. Maybe the round was out of spec? I cleaned the gun last night, so the chamber wasn't very dirty at all. I thought it was odd that I couldn't easily rack the slide once this happened. I actually placed the round in the chamber and fired it afterwards. Immediately following the shot, I thought to myself "Wow, that was a stupid idea." :buttkick:

After my session was over, I went and talked to the guy that came in to help me out. He was _really_ nice, and actually field stripped it and took a look. He said that wouldn't bother him one bit, but it just got me thinking and I wanted to get some other input about it. I appreciate your input. :smt023 Any more comments would be appreciated as always. :smt1099

-Jeff-


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## kev74 (Mar 22, 2008)

If the round fired on the second try, it was probably some kind of dirt or grit getting in the way. I wouldn't hold it against the gun. 

I don't think there's any risk of trying to pop off a round if it didn't go off with the first strike as long as it doesn't look defective. With my .22s (lots more duds per box), I'll retry duds 2 or 3 times before I'll give up on them.


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