# What is your favorite Personal Defense Bullet?



## Dredd

Regardless of caliber, what is the favorite bullet used by the members here? Technology in the industry has grown tremendously and new bullet designs pop up. What do you like?

I thought it would be interesting to post a poll to see what is the most widely used of them all. This is simply a sampling of the top designs out in the market. It is not by any means all inclusive or meant to be scientific. 

If you use a different loading using the same bullet as one above such as Double-Tap Gold Dot then please choose the gold dot above. Feel free to post any experiences or comments on what you prefer.


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## Mike Barham

Can you add an "any" option? _All_ of the modern premium HPs work very well, to the point where there is an almost negligible practical difference between them. I would be pleased to use any of the rounds listed.

I currently have Gold Dots and Golden Sabers around, but that's just because they were available when I last went shopping. If Winchester or Federal or whatever had been available instead, I'd have bought them without a second thought.

To paraphrase the guys at Front Sight: any good round will do - if you will.


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## Dredd

Mike Barham said:


> Can you add an "any" option? _All_ of the modern premium HPs work very well, to the point where there is an almost negligible practical difference between them. I would be pleased to use any of the rounds listed.
> 
> I currently have Gold Dots and Golden Sabers around, but that's just because they were available when I last went shopping. If Winchester or Federal or whatever had been available instead, I'd have bought them without a second thought.
> 
> To paraphrase the guys at Front Sight: any good round will do - if you will.


Right, but most everyone has a favorite bullet. Maybe they read about problems at their local agency with one or heard a good story about one from an LEO and decided to use it. Some of the new designs are supposed to have better ballistics when it comes to jacket separation and hitting barriers etc.

edit: How would I edit the poll once it's posted? I can't find the option.


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## Mike Barham

I fixed it for you. :mrgreen:

My main point is just that people get way too wrapped up with the hardware end of things. This bullet versus that bullet, Glock versus XD, IWB versus OWB, whatever. But hardware selection is almost irrelevant compared to the "software" part of self-defense.


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## Dredd

Mike Barham said:


> I fixed it for you. :mrgreen:
> 
> My main point is just that people get way too wrapped up with the hardware end of things. This bullet versus that bullet, Glock versus XD, IWB versus OWB, whatever. But hardware selection is almost irrelevant compared to the "software" part of self-defense.


Yeah, but I kind of want to know what people use. You know, there's people who buy what the other guy recommends, what looks good, what sounds good on paper, what the local LEO uses. Stuff like that. I just wanted to get a sampling of what members of this forum would use.


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## KingAirDriver

I voted for Gold Dots, although I'm with Mike- any quality HP round is fine with me. I have Gold Dots in my G19, CorBon +P in my HK USPc, and the cheapo Wally World Remington JHP in our Kahr PM9, because that's the only HP round I've tested so far (gun's new to us). In my Beretta 96FS, which is my nightstand gun, I have the cheapo Wally World Winchester JHP in it...again, it's the only JHP round I've tested in it and I don't mind using it in a home defense gun.


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## milquetoast

DPX outside the house. House gun is Hydra-Shok. But, I don't feel unarmed with any good hollow point, with my preference being 230 (in .45). For that matter, my spare mags are all loaded with Hornady 230 FMJ Flat Point. (I stocked up when I heard they were being discontinued.)


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## Todd

I don't have a preference either, especially since I have real world experience with an actual shooting and can't say, "The Gold Dots did ____, but the Hydra Shoks did _____." 

I know the Hydra Shoks feed well in my XD so that's what I currently use and how I voted. But I'd switch without much concern as long as I knew my gun ate the ammo without a problem.


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## TOF

My "preference" is _Winchester Ranger SXT_

I will however use any name brand HP for carry.

I currently have Ranger 155 Gr. HP's for my .40 (not SXT) and Win White Box SJSP's for my .357

Preference and what I will search out and pay for are often 2 different things.

It's like the Chevy vs. Cadillac question. My primary objective is to get from point A to point B. Either will accomplish that task.

:smt1099


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## bruce333

My favorite SD bullet is Hollow Point.

Now if you want to know my favorite cartridge by brand...

That would be Winchester Ranger...


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## Dredd

bruce333 said:


> My favorite SD bullet is Hollow Point.
> 
> Now if you want to know my favorite cartridge by brand...
> 
> That would be Winchester Ranger...


There's different bullet types not just loaded ammo manufacturers. For instance, Hornday TAP can be used by companies doing their own loading. Gold Dot too. For example Double Tap uses Speer Gold Dot bullets but loads them up hotter than speer does.

Kind of what I was getting at, more than just the cartridge manufacturer.


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## bruce333

so...you are looking for brand of bullet?? or ?? I'm confused as to what you are looking for...

You have "any premium HP _load_" as one of the choices. _load_ indicates to me that you were asking about cartridge, not a specific type/brand of bullet. Now if you had posted this in the reloading forum...I would have made the correct assumption...

I really don't pay any attention to what brand of bullet is in the cartridges I buy. Just the brand of the manufacturer of the ammo.


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## Mike Barham

I edited the poll, so I'll take the blame for any lack of clarity. I changed the wording slightly.


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## JeffWard

No preference.

I carry TAP in my 45, and Hydra Shock in my 9mm.

They are boh XDs, so they'll feed anything... Got the TAP on sale, had expereience with the Hydra Shocks in 9mm, and knew they shot to POA.

In my 45, 230gr, is 230gr... Everything I've fed it tore ragged holes at 7mm, to POA. At 25yds??? I only shoot UMC Hardball at 25yds, so I don't know.

JW


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## Wandering Man

bruce333 said:


> I'm confused as to what you are looking for...
> _load_ indicates to me that you were asking about cartridge, not a specific type/brand of bullet.





Mike Barham said:


> I edited the poll, so I'll take the blame for any lack of clarity. I changed the wording slightly.


Just look at his avatar, you'll understand why he used "load"

Man just back from 'Stan's gotta be thinking about getting a little "loaded." :anim_lol:

WM


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## Mike Barham

My tolerance may have dipped a wee bit over the last fifteen months, but fortunately I am half Irish, so the skill never disappears completely. :mrgreen:


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## Baldy

I buy any good HP that they. So far everything I have bought from soup to nuts has worked just fine in my pistols. If I find one that doesn't you'll see it heae frist.:smt1099


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## HadEmAll

Hornady TAP is the ammunition line, the bullet is the XTP.


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## ki4dmh

Sxt


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## Wyatt

9MM: Speer Gold Dot JHP 124gr +P.

.357 Magnum: Federal Hydra-Shok JHP 158gr.


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## Old Padawan

I honestly do not know. They are federal HP and they were on sale. I buy decent quality and shoot a mag of them every time I shoot. When I run low, I buy more.


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## hawcer

Answer: The one that I will never have to fire!

But... Gold Dots make great mag fillers....


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## fivehourfrenzy

I haven't done any testing with different brands, so I can't personally attest to this, but I've heard different brands/loads will fire differently in the same gun. Now, you should always use a brand/load that will cycle reliably in your choice of weapon, but I've heard some brands do better than others in a particular handgun. For example, a Hydra-shok may shoot POA, while a DPX shoots low and left, and a Gold Dot shoots high and right. I would choose the one that shoots closest to POA, assuming it was available, cycled reliably, and was a premium defense round. It's similar with shotguns...I may have a Remington 870 that patterns the best with Winchester while Mike may have a Remington 870 that patterns best with Federal, and Todd may have a Remington 870 that patterns best with Remington. So once you've found the premium brands/loads that won't give you FTF/FTE problems, if you're that particular about it, find out which one shoots the most accurately, given your sight alignment (if you have fixed sights like most of us). If you have adjustable sights, just pick the one you feel most comfortable carrying, and adjust your sights accordingly.


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## godsdaddy

*Whatever's in the mag...*

I probably have a little bit of everything on that list in the safe, but I'm with several others in saying that any quality JHP will get the job done as long as they are reliable in your chosen weapon. I can say that all my .45 mags are currently loaded with 230gr Hydra Shocks, because I bought a pile of them on sale awhile ago, and they feed well. I have some of the lighter (135gr?) Golden Saber +P for both the .45 and .40, as well as a few CorBon's kick around for some of my revolvers.

It's been awhile since I actually looked at what's sitting at home(kind of hard since I'm deployed right now), but I can tell you that my Beretta (on my side as I type this) and Sig (both issue) are loaded with 115gr FMJ, which is ineffective on anything more than a paper target. We procured some of the new "blended metal" APLP rounds for our 5.56mm and 6.8SPC weapons, but we're still waiting on the 9mm and .45ACP rounds to arrive.


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## cupsz71

Federal Hydra-Shok

135grn JHP 9mm for the XD9sc & Beretta 92FS
90grn JHP .380Auto for the BERSA T380

More for the local availabilty than anything else. Never ordered ammo on-line and don't reload.....yet
Regardless of brand or balistic stats....my overall plan when it comes to personal/home/zombie defense......_read my signature and you'll get the idea......_that's why each gun has at least 2 fully loaded mags of defensive ammo at the ready. 
Not to mention the WWB target rounds loaded up in each of the remaining spare mags between my trips to the range. (_each gun has 4 mags total...*XD* 2X16+2X10=52...*92FS* 4X15=60....*T380* 4X7=28...for a grand total of : *140rnds* of combined zombie......err....badguy stopping persuasion_.:smt033

Did read recently in May issue of DEFENSIVE HANDGUNS though that the JHP bullet doesn't expand properly due to low (_800-950 FPS_) velocity from the 3" barrel on my XD and I assume my wife's BERSA. The Beretta maintains a good FPS for JHP expansion with it's 5".

Things to ponder....


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## BeefyBeefo

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did they say in the magazine about it not expanding *properly* out of the 3" barrel of the XDSC. I'm just curious, although I feel that it would expand plenty and be plenty effective in a BG if you can place your shots....just like with any other caliber I might add. I'm just curious as to what exactly the magazine says....

-Jeff-


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## cupsz71

BeefyBeefo said:


> Just out of curiosity, what exactly did they say in the magazine about it not expanding *properly* out of the 3" barrel of the XDSC. I'm just curious, although I feel that it would expand plenty and be plenty effective in a BG if you can place your shots....just like with any other caliber I might add. I'm just curious as to what exactly the magazine says....
> 
> -Jeff-


Off the top of my head I believe that the 9mm JHP bullet in the 124-135grn range DID NOT expand fully when fired from a sub-compact _(XD-GLOCK-TARUS_)semi-auto frame into gellaton at 8yrds resulting in less than stellar performance by manufacturer's claims.

Muzzel velocity was greatly reduced to the 700-900FPS range being fired from a 3" barrel instead of the normal 1000+FPS _(longer barrel_) to achieve max. spread for max. damage/penetration.....

I'll get the aritcle and try to post it, cause I'm sure my facts are a bit "_fuzzy_". But I DO remember them questioning if buying "_defensive ammo"_ was worth the cost.....or stick with FMJ target ammo to get better results.

I'll post it ASAP.:smt023


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## cupsz71

K found the article: and yes my info off the top of my head was flawed.......(_read soooo much stuff it's all becomming a blurrr_)

Anyways,

I omitted the intro, but he's basically taking about how popular 9mm SC have become and how good they are. And he goes on to compare barrel lengths in GLOCKS... a 17 being full sized......19 being compact......26 being sub-compact etc....

The ammo he's providing info on:
Carbon 115 DPX JHP
Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr +P+ JHP
Winchester 147gr JHP
Winchester 147gr SXT JHP

....not sure where he gets the rest of his ammo info.....not documented or listed.......

COMBAT HANDGUNS - June08'
By: Chuck Taylor - "_Best Loads for Mini-9s_"

*Muzzle Velocities*

_"This means that muzzle velocities are also substantially reduced, making JHP expansion less that optimum. Let's take the new Springfield Armory XD-9 series as a further example. The "Tactial" XD-9 has a 5-inch barrel, while the barrel of a "standard" model mesures 4 inches. However, the barrel of the "sub-compact" version is only 3 inches, thus reducing muzzel velocity by a full 40 percent.
Let's say that a given 9mm load produces 1400 FPS from the 5-inch "Tactical" model, which is more than enough to expect significant JHP expansion. From the 4-inch barrel "standard" model, we can expect a substantial reduction to about 1120 FPS. While it narrows the field of which bullets will or will not expand, it isn't a disaster by any means. Even at 1120 FPS, several loads will have at least some expansion.
However, with this same load, the 3-inch sub-compact only generates about 840 FPS. 
Suddenly, our presumption of substantial JHP expansion is no longer valid. In fact, at 840 FPS, with most JHP's any degree of expansion would be exceptional. And that is what the small 9mm and .38 Special snub have in common: muzzle velocities reduced to the point where, more often that not, JHP expansion cannot be expected.
Even with the 4-inch compact, many 9mm JHP's don't reliably upset in ballistic gellatin. For this reason, the 147-grain loads should catigorically be avoided. Only rarely to they break 950 FPS from a 4-inch barrel, so while they're highly accuarate and usually shoot to point-of-aim at 25 meters, bullet expansion is, at best, negligible.
A 3-inch barreled sub-compacts gets even worse with velocities in the 800 FPS range being common. If the JHP won't expand at 950 FPS, it certainly won't expand at 800 FPS, so once again the 147-grainers should be disqualified from consideration."_

He goes on.....

*Loads that Work*

_"One load that shoots exceptionally well and demonstrates good expansion from a 4-inch compact is Hornaday's TAP 124-grain JHP. Utilizing their excellent XTP bullet, accuracy, functional reliability, low muzzel flash and good terminal ballistic performance are all achievable with this load. For these reasons, the 124-grain TAP has become popular and prolific police service load. Another notable performer in a 4-inch barreled compact is Winchester's Ranger SXT 127-grain +P+ JHP. It, too, is a popular police load and is highly sought-after by civilians as well.
MORE......'
Clearly, the 3-inch sub-compact 9mm in the version that limits ammunition the most, so careful testing is required to determine which loads perform well, or at least satisfactorily in it. After years of investigation, I've found only 2 loads that meet this criterion.
First is CarBon's 115-grain DPX JHP, utilizing the supurb Barnes-X JHP bullet. Superbly designed, it features a solid copper bullet with 6 "petals" that begin to peel back with only minimal hydraulic "push" in the hollow cavity. Even at the low velocities produced from a 3-inch barrel, the result is a surprisingly uniform "ceiling fan" effect as the petals react, thus transmitting maximum energy (and shock) to the target producing the largest possible wound channel.
The second 9mm load that performs in a sub-compact in the Glaser Blue. Weighing a mere 88 grains, it features a frangible bullet jacket with a hard rubbrer nose-plug, within are suspended a quantity of chilled lead shot. When the bullet impacts, the hard rubber plug is driven backwards, rupturing the jacket and releasing the shot pellets, causing immediate energy release into the target and a terrific wound channel."

"In summary, compact & sub-compact 9mm pistols are not only here to stay, but continue to increase in popularity. They;'e easy to shoot, more than sufficiently accurate for any tactical purpose and minimally inconvienient to conceal. In addition, they're controlable, utilize a relatively large capacity magazine (a popular issue with many shooters) and require no special maintenance or special holsters. As such, they offer much to anyone who has need of their lightweight and small size.
However, this being said, they can achieve even better performance if you carefully select ammunition you intend to use in them. All ammo isn't the same and the high speed, life-and-death environment inherent to the combat handgun confrontation demands that we give ourselves every advantage."_

ow...my hands hurt.

Not sure if any of it really matters in the long run. Shot placement and accuracy are more important IMO. I have no plans to change my choice in Defensive ammo at this point. It was good read though.:smt023


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## fivehourfrenzy

HadEmAll said:


> Hornady TAP is the ammunition line, the bullet is the XTP.


No...they have the TAP FPD (for personal defense), and the XTP. They're two different bullets.

edit: I dunno, they have the TAP, and the XTP as separate loads. Maybe the TAP uses the XTP bullet, but they call it the TAP. I dunno.


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## HadEmAll

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I dunno.


The Hornady website shows that the only hollowpoint pistol bullet Hornady makes is the XTP.


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## fivehourfrenzy

HadEmAll said:


> The Hornady website shows that the only hollowpoint pistol bullet Hornady makes is the XTP.


They have the TAP, and the XTP. The TAP uses the XTP bullet, but they also have an XTP line that uses the XTP bullet but isn't a TAP. https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_se...&category_id=f2052c19978003cb6085adead52ee5b6

Both have the XTP bullet, but one is the TAP and one is the HP. I think the only difference is the TAP has the black nickel coating on the casing. It says on the description that it uses charges that minimize muzzle flash to help with night vision. The XTP is a very good bullet that shows superior expansion qualities. I wouldn't mind carrying the 200gr +P TAP in .45 auto. If nothing else, they look cool as hell. :mrgreen:


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## skyfire

to be honest, it DOES matter what brand you get, because the shape of hollow-point rounds makes some rounds mis-load in certain guns. i think it's good to shoot a box (as expensive as they are) through your gun first and make sure they load properly.

if you use your gun for home protection, and it doesn't feed the round into the barrel when you work your slide, it's not a very effective tool for home protection =)

i've shot hydrashocks and hornady taps through my 9mm p226, and they work fine, but it's always good to be on the safe side and check:mrgreen:


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## Mike Barham

skyfire said:


> to be honest, it DOES matter what brand you get, because the shape of hollow-point rounds makes some rounds mis-load in certain guns. i think it's good to shoot a box (as expensive as they are) through your gun first and make sure they load properly.
> 
> if you use your gun for home protection, and it doesn't feed the round into the barrel when you work your slide, it's not a very effective tool for home protection =)
> 
> i've shot hydrashocks and hornady taps through my 9mm p226, and they work fine, but it's always good to be on the safe side and check:mrgreen:


Reliability is the first criteria of a defensive round, no doubt about it. However, at least in quality modern guns, all the upper-tier rounds seem to work fine, and are designed with reliable feeding in mind. Of course they should still be tested in your particular pistol. I think everyone in the thread sort of assumed that was obvious, but you're right, sometimes people need to be reminded of the basics.


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## Elmer Gantry

I voted for 'any' because I don't know enough to really weigh in. Newbie, here, so I'm trying to sort through all of this. I tend to think that it can't really matter too much as long as it actually fires and hits him/her where I want.

That said, I bought a higher priced (and assumed grade) of ammo to serve the bedside and carry purpose, more for perceived reliability than accuracy, stopping power, etc. 

That ammo is Federal Premium 124 grain hydra-shok. It was priced more favorably than other 'high-end' rounds. 

Hopefully, I'll never need to know if it really matters.


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## fivehourfrenzy

Elmer Gantry said:


> I tend to think that it can't really matter too much as long as it actually fires and hits him/her where I want.


+1. A 685gr JHP from a .50BMG won't do a damn thing to a person if it misses, and the same goes for any bullet.

1. Train to make the hits...*any* bullet that hits COM is better than another that misses.
2. Pick a premium SD load that you can afford and is readily available.
3. Check for cycling reliability. If it works, carry with confidence.

I take it a step further and find one that will give me the most reliable expansion coming out of my 3" barrel. But as long as I'm carrying a good quality SD load and make the hits, I'll be fine.


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## unpecador

I have a P01 and I prefer Speer Lawman FMJ 115/124gr for the range and Gold Dot JHP 124gr for self defense, that's what I look for when I shop.

Edit:









However, since I've discovered Walmart, I've cut down on Lawman but still look for deals by the case online.


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## Slowfire

HSTs are what the Sheriff's Dept recommends in my neck of the woods.


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## curmudgeon8

I chronographed 230gr Golden Sabers thru my 3 in.Colt New Agent at 790, 802 and 808 feet per second (800 avg.); I don't have a facility to check for expansion, anybody ever done that with this brand of hollow points from a 3 in. barrel?


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## BT2Flip

Now that I see what got the most votes ...
I think I'll try them on for size 

thanks yall !


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## JeffWard

The one that hits were I aim it... since spinal hit and head hits are the only true one-shot-stoppers...

The rest is marketing BS and ego.

JeffWard


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## Dedicatedsoldier

I stick with good ole JHP. Anyone try Hornady for .45 ACP


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## mike#9

How do you guys like the Hornady Critical Defense.


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## DevilsJohnson

Fiocchi makes a pretty good HP, so does Magtech. Just wanted to toss a couple unlisted names out there.

Really most any will do what you want it to. I advise people to try a bunch of them. See what their gun likes to shoot best. Most guns I've ever fired have an ammo preference. Some guns no matter how good the ammo is supposed to be don't like to feed it and that makes it an unreliable round in my book. So try a bunch of them. See what not only feeds well but groups well. slug weight, the powder, the shape of the slug all play a part. Some guns like a hotter load while another gun might be too hot and it just flies all over the place. Once you find the one your gun(s) like the most that is the best ammo around. At least for you. :smt023


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## Bisley

Any hollowpoint that feeds reliably and shoots to POA suits me fine.


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## Growler67

Currently using Federal 147gr HydraShok. Switched from the 124gr HydraShoks a couple of years ago. More mass on target and the drop in muzzle velocity (by comparison) is insignificant, IMO, within 75 feet (expected max engagement range).

I shoot max distance outdoors as most indoor facilities are 50 feet or less. At 50 or less I can place my shots easily. At 75 I can too, as long as I am slow and deliberate. Still, situation dependant, I would opt for 50 or closer if circumstances permitted. Farther than 75 feet/25 yards is generally the tactical province of something with more than 4" of barrel.


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## BeefyBeefo

Whatever premium ammo is on sale. :mrgreen: I can't find any locally, so last time around I had to order from ammo to go. I ordered Rangers for the XD and GoldDots for the G36 because they were the cheaper ones at the time.


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## macgulley

I prefer Hydra Shoks but it's sometimes difficult to justify the cost compared to other hollow points that may work as well.


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## figaroni

I Was using Federal Hydra Shock for all my carry needs. On duty, at home or concealed. I did make a switch to Extreme Shock EPR and AFR rounds.


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## AC_USMC 03

black talon


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## Ptarmigan

Where do you get these? It was my understanding that they have not been produced for several years.


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## mlc

Ptarmigan said:


> Where do you get these? It was my understanding that they have not been produced for several years.


i see them for sell on gunbroker all the time. going for about $60 a box average.


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## tom777

does anyone shoot 9mm Hornady 124gr XTP's for SD ammo? I have run a bunch of 147gr hydra-shok's through my XD9sc with no problems, but I picked up a couple boxes of the Hornady the other day as it was cheaper. Figured it couldn't hurt to try it.


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## zorro

*200 gr blunt round nose .38 special*

Hi refer the large medium speed 200 gr hard cast lead blunt round nose, similar to old Winchester and Western load, just my thouhts zorro:smt083


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## Yellojacket

I just bought a couple boxes of the WInchester Bonded PDX1 ammo 45ACP 230gr. I figure if is is good enough for FBI requirements it's good anough for me. From what I've read about them they are supposed to be pretty good. I haven't had a chance to try it out on any "real" targets yet but I plan on some water jugs and maybe making a homemade balistic gel block and see that these to to that.


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## lynxpilot

What sort of reputation does Corbon +P have?


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## clanger

*....which one?*

The One that stops the threat cold.


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## literaltrance

Buffalo Bore ammo has appealed to me ever since I shot their 10mm loads. Turns out most of their loads are very hot yet accurate. There are drawbacks: recoil and flash are definitely amplified, but I think one will be hard-pressed to find a more powerful factory load.

[Edit]: Hrm, I just noticed this was a poll for BULLETS. Still, most Buffalo Bore rounds in calibers I use are supersonic so I am not so concerned about lack of expansion.


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## Slammed

I have Black Talons in all my SD guns.Not on the poll list


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## StatesRights

I use the Hornady bullet since it seems to be a favorite of law enforcement.


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## mels95yj

I currently use Cor-Bon DPX 115g +P. The only reason is that's all they had. Sure was hard to fork over $35 for 20 rounds though. Normally, I go with the Speers in either 147g or 124g +P.


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## DanP_from_AZ

It's always a "ammo guess" for me. Everyone knows and tells me "what is the best" in print.

My Beretta 92 Centurion "digests" anything I put in the mag.
Currently, both mags are filled with 14 rounds (one under capacity) of 147 grain Golden Saber.
The 92 "likes" these rounds. Yes, I know "heavy" 147's are currently out of favor.
But, my have no feed problems. No on target problems. Any "problem" is just me.

I just got a .38 Special S&W 642 snubby for CCW. Any ammo is currently hard to find.
I have it loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok 110 grain "low recoil" JHP. It's what I could find.

I'll live with this. I added CR laser grips to help me put the bullets where they belong.
That's the most important point of the gun and the "ammo" that's loaded, isn't it ? 
Can you double tap the chest area, and then go for the finish with a head shot ?

If you can't, then who cares about "the cartridge performance" ?


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## jump15vc

im using Winchester Supreme Elites in my baby eagle. they go where i point them, inst that the point? haha
but id like to try gold dots or federals when i get back down to fl


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## falchunt

I thought that many of you would appreciate this image. This will put everyones "opinions aside for a second, maybe....


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## jeffreybehr

falchunt, TYVM for that foto. Must have been a lot of work to produce the data.

I'm really impressed with the apparent performance of all those bullets. If I ever have to fire a bullet in anger, I hope it performs as well.

Could you pls explain what _2 X 12" Deep Water Jugs_ means?


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## falchunt

jeffreybehr-

First of all, I sincerely hope you never, ever, fire your weapon in anger. You should never have to fire your weapon in _anger_. I believe what you meant to say is "self defense".

2x12 water jugs (if I understand correctly) is exactly that: a 2" wide x 12 " tall water jug, probably similar to a pringles can. I would guess that they lay the jug down with the smaller side facing the shooter. I thought that this diagram was pretty impressive myself.


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## jeffreybehr

Yes, self-defense, and I imagine it'd be more 'in fright' than 'in anger'.

This research and display aren't yours? If so, could you share the source?


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## jeffreybehr

jeffreybehr said:


> Yes, self-defense, and I imagine it'd be more 'in fright' than 'in anger'.
> 
> This research and display aren't yours? If so, could you share the source?


*falchunt*????????????????????????


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## Hepcat II

I was going to ask the same question as Mike#7 about the Hornady Critical Defence rounds. I see no responces yet. Still waiting.


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## SIGness

Speer Gold Dots!


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## wheelgunnerfla

147 grn +P+ Winchester Ranger Law Enforcement ammo. Rip you a new one........


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## omegajb

If I could find them locally Winchester Ranger SXT but they've been tough to find.


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## jeffreybehr

Yellojacket said:


> I just bought a couple boxes of the WInchester Bonded PDX1 ammo 45ACP 230gr. I figure if is is good enough for FBI requirements it's good anough for me. From what I've read about them they are supposed to be pretty good. I haven't had a chance to try it out on any "real" targets yet but I plan on some water jugs and maybe making a homemade balistic gel block and see that these to to that.


These pics may help; the PDX1 looks VERY impressive in my waterjug tests.









The PDX1, and to a lesser extent the Gold Dot, have more core material attached to the opened petals of the jacket's nose. It's easier to see in this pic.









Altho these waterjug tests present rather easy material to the bullets, and their performances in more-difficult material (such as the bone-laden bodies of badguys) may be substantially different, I'd trust any of the top-row bullets for my PD loads. Since I already have LOTS of Hornady XTPs, I'll stick with them.


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## airtractorfan

I like the 125 JHP Speer Gold Dot loaded by Double Tap Ammuntion.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=79


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## redpenguin01

The Winchester Ranger T-series are awesome.. surprised they weren't put on the list.








Photo courtesy of n/apower 

Here's a video comparing the HST, Ranger T-Series, and Black Talon... gives a way better perspective to the expansions.


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## jeffreybehr

redpenguin01 said:


> The Winchester Ranger T-series are awesome.. surprised they weren't put on the list.


They weren't included in my tests because you didn't send me any cartridges in 40S&W to test.


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## archull

I like my Hornaday Critical Defense personally but there are many good loads to choose from now


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## cougartex

Speer Gold-Dot :smt1099


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## Mariano

Hydra shock hands down IMHO


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## Mental Avenger

*Black Talon*

I have 8 boxes of 9mm Black Talon ammo. I haven't seen any discussion on Black Talon. Back in the day there were many glowing reports about how good it was. Don't know if that was just hype or it really performed that well. I just bought a Cobra 9mm Derringer to tide me over until my P229 9mm barrel and my KelTec P-11 come in. Does anyone have any information on reliability?


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## Mental Avenger

I realized that the question was vague. I wanted information on reliability of the Black Talon ammo. However, if anyone has information on the reliability of the Cobra 9mm Derringer, that would also be welcome.
Thanks.


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## camaro*73

Hornady TAP for me.


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## falchunt

*Sorry about the delay...*



jeffreybehr said:


> *falchunt*????????????????????????


Sorry about that Jeffrey, I somehow missed that. I received that picture in an email from a coworker, who snagged it off of another forum. I have since done a little bit of testing myself but it seems almost impossible to get my hands on different brands of ammo. I can only find about 3 different brands... tumbleweed


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## jeffreybehr

Since I posted the 40-caliber-bullet results, I've switched to 45GAP and tested a couple. Since the Gold Dot excelled in the .40-cal. test, I bought those bullets and also Winchester Silvertip ammo.









Again the Gold Dot performed excellently, and until someone sends me some 45-caliber bullets to test, I'm finished. :smt023

Here are my cartridges.


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## Defender3

I've used Speer Gold Dots and Federal Hyra shoks for years. I may not have given it too much thought though since in a .45 I didn't think there would be a significant difference in performance.

Anyone have a range report on the Winchester PDX1s?


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## EliWolfe

I stumbled across this thread and posted my vote for the Barnes DPX bullet (Corbon). I was surprised at the low ranking it has overall. I am more than willing to change rounds if the other stuff is better. Is the DPX just another hype deal the old man has fallen for? Educate me please.
Regards,
Eli :mrgreen:


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## j4l

Depends on the load. try the GOLD DOT SHORT BARREL versions. designed to expand at the reduced velocities of shorter barrels.


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## ozzy

WWB BJHP in .180 gr or Hornady Critical Defense .165 gr. in .40


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## Lee Hunter

Federal Hi-Shok 125 grain SJHP .357 Magnum ammo.
Federal Hi-Shok 115 grain JHP 9x19 +P+ ammo.
Federal Hi-Shok 115 grain JHP 9x19 SV ammo.
Federal 155 grain JHP .40 S&W ammo.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

winchester ranger frangibles


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## ozzy

I won 't even ask why? :numbchuck:


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## rgrundy

I was advised years ago to shoot what the local police shoot and now that's usually HydraShoks or Winchester PDX1. If it's okay for them to shoot bad guys with these loads it will be easier to convince a jury it was okay for you to do the same in self defense. Most of these loads group well enough from any pistol I've owned to easily do the job. As for downrange ballistics, if you hit something vital anything will work.


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## droptrd

There will always be a box of Ranger T series in my nightstand


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## cclaxton

380: MagTech 85gr. Runners up: USAammo 90gr, Hornady XTP, Ranger T-Series.
9mm: Federal Premium 124gr HST. Runners up: Federal Premium 124gr +P HST, Federal Premium 147gr HST, Ranger T-Series 147gr., Speer Gold Dot 124gr.


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## Cat

But over all now. The new hornady FTX bullet, superior controlled expansion. FTX as won every test for over 2 yrs now. Then any bullet in it's class.


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## dondavis3

I voted for Federal Hydra-Shok, 

Although I agree with Mike.

Just about any quality HP round is fine with me.

And I have several different brands around the house.

:smt1099


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## denner

Mental Avenger said:


> I realized that the question was vague. I wanted information on reliability of the Black Talon ammo. However, if anyone has information on the reliability of the Cobra 9mm Derringer, that would also be welcome.
> Thanks.


The Black Talons are very reliable, of course you need to run them for reliability in your chosen handgun. As far as performance, I've read the latest T series are better performers than the older designed Black Talons and their predecessor the SXT.


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## Stonekold

Gold Dot Hollow Points Is What I am Using Now But I also like silver tips and Winchester!!
But In Reality If You Put 2 In The Heart And One In The Head It Does,nt Matter What You Use!!!!


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## Stonekold

Mental Avenger said:


> I have 8 boxes of 9mm Black Talon ammo. I haven't seen any discussion on Black Talon. Back in the day there were many glowing reports about how good it was. Don't know if that was just hype or it really performed that well. I just bought a Cobra 9mm Derringer to tide me over until my P229 9mm barrel and my KelTec P-11 come in. Does anyone have any information on reliability?


Black Talons Are Armor Piercing So They Are Not Worth The Cost To Most People.. High Prices Are Probably The Reason They Are No Longer In Favor!!!


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Stonekold said:


> Black Talons Are Armor Piercing So They Are Not Worth The Cost To Most People.. High Prices Are Probably The Reason They Are No Longer In Favor!!!


the black talon are not now and never were armor piercing, perhaps a little research would be of value since its obvious that whats being spewed out is nothing more than the opinions of others.... unless of course you have some video of you shooting black talons thru armor..... any armor.... body armor ..... WTF people? atleast have some idea about the garbage you believe and pass on!


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## ponzer04

i'm using federal premium guard dogs in 45acp right now


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## FloridiaGunGuy

My favorite gun is the one I have in my pocket; my favorite bullet is the one that is in the chamber.


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## Hurryin' Hoosier

If talking strictly for defensive purposes, my choice is Buffalo Bore .38 Special non-+P LSWCHP "Chicago loads".


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## berettatoter

A big fat one! LOL!:smt033 I still stick with the good ol' Remington Golden Sabers.


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## Soonerman

I think they are all pretty good, try some rounds through the gun to make sure there aren't any feed problems, some guns just don't like certain brands it seems. I use Hornady in both my .45 and 9mm and although have never had to use it for defense, have never had any problems with jams or anything.


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## lp04

I use the hornady z max. Same thing as critical defense but my gun does better with brass vs nickle plated


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## TheDoug

I know jack-all about this stuff. I point it, squeeze the trigger, it goes boom, boom, boom, zombie dies. I'm happy.
But that said, I've got the Golden Sabres in the Kimber UCII now, and they've never left a zombie standing.
I would like to hear some opinions on frangibles, in case I have to take the zombies out on a plane or something. Any recs?


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## berettabone

Corbon>>>>>>>>>>


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## Ricky59

Hornady Critical Defense ....
Feeds well in all my guns ..
And Goes bang ...


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## Blade

I like "old reliable", Federal Hi-Shoks. They may be dated, but they are tried and true. And they are cheap enough that I can afford to practice with my carry round.


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## scooter

I use the bullet that goes BOOM when I pull the trigger


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## DonGlock26

I prefer the Speer golddot. It is good in all calibers, and is availible in most sporting goods stores.

_


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## donalddad

where is a source for impact energy for the various bullet calibers and bullet types?


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## dman

I don't use the one listed but I do use the Winchester 230 grn. PDX1. 45 JHP .


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## 45

I like the remington golden saber brass jacket hollow point it performs realley good in my 1911 also you get 25 rounds a box of comparied to 20 rounds of the other ones did you know that the man that develop the golden saber also develop the infamous black talon it is in shooting illustrated march 2012 issue page 22 & then continues on page 62 he also develop the winchester silvertip I keep that loaded in my S&W model 66 357 Magnum that the same load the Kentucky state police had in there revolvers until they went to automatics I figure if it good enough for the state police it good enough for me


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## papahawk

none of the above, I use Hornady XTP,s


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## brandonlee3

I just picked up a box of .40 Winchester Ranger 135gr the other day for $22. I've not shot these rounds before so I have no idea how they'll perform but I was told they're some of the better rounds out there. Anyone here ever shot them and if so how did you like them? I could have bought a box of 20 Federal Hydra Shok for around the same price but elected to go with the Rangers.


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## skullfr

It is kinda like a ford chevy thing with all agreeing on what you are confident with and accurite with.Since I carry a kind of off caliber my choices are a li more narrowed.My range ammo and prime back up is siver bear 94 gr JHP.My prime is hornady 95 gr XTP.They both shoot without failure and out of my weapon they they both shoot the same.The only difference I found through wet phone book and homemade ballistics gel made with Knox gelatin is the hornady expands better.I like the HP as it creates a larger wound because for the simple answer being it is larger in diameter.You can argue forever with ballistic charts and physicist expert opinion and still no one would agree.Also the majority of LEO carry JHP and I am going on what I read not irrefutable fact.But if in a court setting a man using a LEO approved round and not a home reload nasty evil round will win his case.On a nother subject-Scooter,pm me man.I also was a A.F.SP( by your avatar) and am old school scooter trash and would like to hear from you.


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## birdbrain

I use ( speer Gold. Dot with the 9mm)
Magtech Guardian Gold with my 38 Sp
both hollow point


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## GRIMMACT

I prefer my own loads due to the fact no one makes them i use a FTX 225gn in my 45 apc's


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## brandonlee3

Being new to the semi-auto scene I really haven't gotten to try too many types of JHP's. I own a Sig P250c .40 and the other day I picked up a box of Winchester Ranger 135gr for about $24 (box of 50). I found some Federal Hydra Shoks at our local Wal-Mart for about the same price for 20 rounds. I'm going to test the Rangers out this weekend to see how well they expand. I know it's a light bullet but I've been told by some friends of mine that are deputies and troopers that a lighter bullet usually gets better expansion. What do you guys think? These are the first Rangers that I have seen in 135gr - most of the ones I know of are 165gr.


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## skullfr

Like I said earlier,the best thing could be a wet phone book test.Take 2 or 3 big phone books and soak overnight.Then wrap em with rubber bands to keep them closed.Fire different grain weights or brands into them and see how they perform.Then make up your own mind.


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## Coyotemoon

Growler67 said:


> Currently using Federal 147gr HydraShok. Switched from the 124gr HydraShoks a couple of years ago. More mass on target and the drop in muzzle velocity (by comparison) is insignificant, IMO, within 75 feet (expected max engagement range).
> 
> I shoot max distance outdoors as most indoor facilities are 50 feet or less. At 50 or less I can place my shots easily. At 75 I can too, as long as I am slow and deliberate. Still, situation dependant, I would opt for 50 or closer if circumstances permitted. Farther than 75 feet/25 yards is generally the tactical province of something with more than 4" of barrel.


If you have to engage BG at 25 yrds think it would be best to evade and escape. Around here you would be in trouble unless BG was shooting at you.


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## guardrail

> What is your favorite Personal Defense Bullet?


One that comes out of the barrel and stops the threat.

That being said, Gold dots.


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## mustang652

For personal defense, I use Federal Premium HST +P 147gr JHP in the 9mm, and Corbon DPX rounds in the 380 based upon the testing I have seen on the forum that specializes in the guns I carry.


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## AntzMa

Speer Gold Dots 124 + P
9mm
(goes in my Ruger Sr9c)


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## TMN

My thought on this is to find a brand that works in your weapon and stick with it. It is important to shoot a few to check if they feed without problem and check point of aim.

I tend to be more performance driven than brand driven


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## GCBHM

Hornady Critical Duty, Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, +P preferably. But standard pressure will do.


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## hillman

Sierra 230gr JHP Power Jacket


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## EvilTwin

Ill go with the big hole, and the big bang and the effects of mass inertia.


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## shaolin

I like the 9mm HST but Gold Dots and DPX by Corbon are good too. I like HST in my .40 and .45acp. but with the .45acp I think any 230 JHP will do fine.


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## OldManMontgomery

None of the above. A wide meplat, lead bullet - 'wadcutter' configuration is my favorite. It doesn't always work in semi-automatic pistols, but one cannot have everything.


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## Lee Hunter

In 9x19 I carry 9BPLE, or Speer 115 grain GDHP +P+.

In .40 S&W I carry 155 grain HST, or Magtech 40D.


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## jeager106

Wow. Resurected from 2008.
O.K. I'll bite. Every premium load in h.p. design in every major caliber expands very well & in my testing experience there is no measurable difference twixt any of them. (apples to apples)
Value wise in caliber .45 a.c.p. Remington 230 grain h.p. get the nod based on price.
100 pack for around $56 bucks depending upon where you shop. Approx. 50 cents a round beats the snot out of a buck twenty 
a round.


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## zeke4351

The Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST are my first choice.


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## PT111Pro

The XTP round in general from various manufacturers.


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## Shipwreck

Damn - a poll I never voted in until now... Started back in 2008 too...


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## Freethought

PT111Pro said:


> The XTP round in general from various manufacturers.


 XTPs are a slug ( bullet) , it's manufactured by Hornady and only Hornady in a variety of calibers and weights , anyone else just loads it.


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## Cait43

Check out Oath Ammunition Tango defensive loads.....
OATH- Operators American Tactical Hardware . HANDGUN AMMO


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## Wyoming_1977

I don't shoot enough to know one from another or how one will perform versus another. I just want to know that if I have to squeeze the trigger, the weapon will function properly and the threat has been neutralized.

That being said - I'm cheap, so I buy whatever is on sale at Wal-Mart on my way to the range. Mostly Winchester white box. It's worked fine so far.


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