# 9mm concealed pistol for Medium Sized Hands..



## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

Hi folks.. 

Frankly, I don't know squat about what's available and need some recommendations as I'm tempted to order online. There's not to many gun shops in liberal Iowa City, but I will check what the two shops have after asking here. 

VAMarine suggested a Sig P365 XL which looks like a great pistol. But what I don't like is the fact the grip is so short, your pinky finger doesn't grip it. I wear a medium glove (8 1/4" around, 7" length) and my smaller hands and stature (165 lbs) is the reason my score went below sharp shooter the more I shot a large and powerful 45 in boot camp. 

Considering I don't need or want more than two guns, I really don't have a price limit. But I don't want anything flashy bling bling. Just a super reliable, accurate, minimalist semi auto pistol that fits my hand like a glove. Suggestions?

Thanks!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> Hi folks..
> 
> Frankly, I don't know squat about what's available and need some recommendations as I'm tempted to order online. There's not to many gun shops in liberal Iowa City, but I will check what the two shops have after asking here.
> 
> ...


Hopefully you can handle a variety of guns before you buy one. But if you have to order online either a HK VP9 or VP9 SK. In fact if this will be your only gun or one of two I'd go with one of those regardless. I own a wide variety of guns and if I only could keep one or two. It would be a tough decision but my HK's wouldn't be going anywhere.

They come with interchangeable small, medium and large back straps and side panels this way you can adjust the grip size to fit your hand. This gun has the best ergonomics out of all the guns that I own. If you want something more concealable the HK VP9 SK. It comes with two 10 round magazines, one is flush with the bottom of the grip the other has a pinky extension. You can also get extended 13, 15, and 17 round magazines that you can get sleeves for that match the grip. The 13 round magazine already has a sleeve. HK's 20 round magazine will also work in this gun. Obviously because of the grip length you can not use the 10 and 13 round VP9 SK magazines in its larger VP9 brother.

HK is primarily a military and law enforcement manufacturer who's products are used throughout the world.


*Heckler & Koch's new VP9 striker fired pistol - Military Times*
www.militarytimes.com › off-duty › gearscout
Jun 06, 2014 · The VP9 is well-suited for civilian sport shooting, security, military, and lawenforcement use. Covered by Heckler & Koch's limited lifetime warranty, the HK VP9 is a solid design engineered with ...


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

desertman said:


> Hopefully you can handle a variety of guns before you buy one. But if you have to order online either a HK VP9 or VP9 SK. In fact if this will be your only gun or one of two I'd go with one of those regardless.


Thanks desertman.. I forgot to mention I have a benelli nova, so this hand gun would be the second, or one and only pistol. That's all I want, because I already have to many possesions and have a hard time selling stuff to craigslist characters..

I was told I should consider a glock 19 or 43X. But there's some folks on the glock forum that swear by their 1911's. Which led me to the SW 9mm M&P Series because I like american made and drive a 97 12 valve. Can I ask what size glove you wear? Have you compared your HK VP9 or VP9 SK to the M&P Series?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> Thanks desertman.. I forgot to mention I have a benelli nova, so this hand gun would be the second, or one and only pistol. That's all I want, because I already have to many possesions and have a hard time selling stuff to craigslist characters..
> 
> I was told I should consider a glock 19 or 43X. But there's some folks on the glock forum that swear by their 1911's. Which led me to the SW 9mm M&P Series because I like american made and drive a 97 12 valve. Can I ask what size glove you wear? Have you compared your HK VP9 or VP9 SK to the M&P Series?


You're welcome!

Sorry but I have no idea what my glove size is? In Arizona we don't wear gloves too often except maybe when handling a cactus.

You can't go wrong with a Glock or M&P either. I don't own a M&P to compare it to but I do own several Glocks including a G43. I know a few people that own M&P's and they are all satisfied with them. I also own a Shadow Systems MR 918 which is for all intents and purposes an American made Glock albeit a custom Glock. Shadow Systems started out making custom parts for Glocks then went and made their own pistol. Most of its parts are interchangeable with a Glock G19 and G23. It's a fantastic pistol. It's no longer in production and is replaced by their MR 920 which is essentially the same gun. https://shadowsystemscorp.com They also added a full-sized version to their line up. I have a variety of 1911's too. But I'm not too crazy about carrying in condition one (cocked and locked). If I have to use a gun in an emergency I don't want to disengage a safety before firing the gun.

If you're going to stick with American made you may also want to look at Ruger's line of pistols. If you want a 1911 in addition to Colt there's Kimber, Ruger, S&W and probably over a dozen others. Not too mention custom 1911's, Wilson, Les Bear, Nighthawk, Dan Wesson, STI etc. But you can expect to pay $3,000 and up for those.

It's too bad that you can't go out and handle such a wide variety of guns before you buy one because of a limited supply and selection in your area? But it sounds like you're looking for a polymer framed pistol? I also have a bunch of Sig's including three P320's. The P320 was adapted by the US military. You can buy all different sized grip frames for that pistol at a reasonable price. The last four pictures are two of my Sig P320's a .40 and a 9mm with different grip frames. The .40 is the same gun. The chassis sits within the frame and is the serialized part. But like I mentioned earlier if I was going to have to order a pistol without being able to physically handle it. Knowing what I know now and by owning a wide variety of guns it would have to be one of HK's VP series of pistols. Not only do I think that it's the best polymer framed pistol on the market but with it's interchangeable back straps and side plates. It feels like it's been custom made to fit just about any hand size. I'm 6 ft. tall and 175 lbs. my wife is 5 ft. tall and about 115 lbs. She has smaller hands than I do and even she loves the feel of HK's VP series of pistols. For what it's worth I'm using the medium sized back strap and panels. You can also mix and match them.




























"Compact" medium grip frame and 13 round magazine.









Wilson Combat "Carry" medium grip frame and 14 round magazine.









Sig AXG "Carry" medium grip frame and 20 round magazine.









Sig V Tac with "Carry" medium "X" frame and 17 round magazine.

You can swap out the serialized chassis in all of these different sized grip frames. Grip Modules | Parts


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazatak said:


> Hi folks..
> 
> Frankly, I don't know squat about what's available and need some recommendations as I'm tempted to order online. There's not to many gun shops in liberal Iowa City, but I will check what the two shops have after asking here.
> 
> ...


The XL has a longer frame. You should be able to get a full grip on it.

The VP9 mentioned above is another good option. I have the P30 with similar grip modularity and its pretty easy for smaller handed individuals.









Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Check out the Staccato C2








This is a 2011 style pistol. I personally love the style/esthetics. It’ll run you about $2K.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Another one I’ve got my eye on.
Canik TP9 Elite Combat








This will run you about $800-900.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Another one I love…
the Walther PPQ Q5 Match SF








This will run about $1700.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

For a smaller frame, I like the Archon Type B








Super low bore axis makes this very accurate for a smaller gun. Retails for around $900.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Another vote for the HK VP9 SK.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Just reread the title of this thread. The 5-in barrel on the Walther Q5 wouldn’t fit your need for concealable. The Canik I mentioned also wouldn’t be best for CC. But the others would fit the bill nicely. And the smaller counterparts to the Walther (PPQ M2 or the PPQ Q4 SF) and Canik (TP9 Elite SC) would suffice.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

Wow.. I'm overwhelmed with all the choices. Id rather buy an american made steel hand gun.. Not that a glock isn't one of the better pistols, but I want my money to remain here in the USA even though Im austrian with a green card. I'm a permanent resident who can own any gun I choose.

Turns out I have a Iowa City Scheels close by, but there were only a couple guns on the first page that they *actually had in stock!* It looks like actually finding what you want, instead of whatever they have in stock is almost as difficult as buying ammo lately.. Wow this sucks. On the other hand, if I never go pistol shopping after my purchase, I wont know there's a better pistol. Sort of like never driving any other truck were ignorance is bliss. My motto is buy once, cry once.

I like VAMarine's suggestion about buying a gun that you can change out the grips to suit a medium hand size. Sadly, no Sig Sauer P365 XL in stock at scheels. They do have the P365X


Which american made 9mm steel pistols have a grip all fingers can grab, and have interchangeable grips? But Id wager if I get set on a particular hand gun, it wont be available..

Or maybe you kind folks could just recommend top notch american brands, and Ill go from there..


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazatak said:


> Wow.. I'm overwhelmed with all the choices. Id rather buy an american made steel hand gun.. Not that a glock isn't one of the better pistols, but I want my money to remain here in the USA even though Im austrian with a green card. I'm a permanent resident who can own any gun I choose.
> 
> Turns out I have a Iowa City Scheels close by, but there were only a couple guns on the first page that they *actually had in stock!* It looks like actually finding what you want, instead of whatever they have in stock is almost as difficult as buying ammo lately.. Wow this sucks. On the other hand, if I never go pistol shopping after my purchase, I wont know there's a better pistol. Sort of like never driving any other truck were ignorance is bliss. My motto is buy once, cry once.
> 
> ...


How American is American enough for you?

Springfield Armory....the oldest name in American firearms, mostly made in Brazil and Croatia.

Dan Wesson, made in New York, owned by Czechs.

FN, Glock, Sig, HK, Beretta all have factories here in the US but are foreign owned. 

Only a few really seem to be US made/owned. 
Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Kahr.

Kahrs are pretty slim. A CW9 might fit your needs but I'd probably opt for a Shield+ or M&P9 Compact.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Zahnarzt said:


> Just reread the title of this thread. The 5-in barrel on the Walther Q5 wouldn’t fit your need for concealable. The Canik I mentioned also wouldn’t be best for CC. But the others would fit the bill nicely. And the smaller counterparts to the Walther (PPQ M2 or the PPQ Q4 SF) and Canik (TP9 Elite SC) would suffice.
> 
> View attachment 19831
> 
> View attachment 19832


I've got a Q4 it's probably one of the best made all steel pistols that you can buy. The machining fit and finish on this pistol is second to none. I was all set to buy a Q5 until they came out with a compact version. I would have liked it better if they ported the slide like the Q5. Oh well you can't have everything. It's a little on the heavy side though. But I had to change the trigger, not that there was anything wring with the stock trigger. I'm just not crazy about plastic triggers.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> Wow.. I'm overwhelmed with all the choices. Id rather buy an american made steel hand gun.. Not that a glock isn't one of the better pistols, but I want my money to remain here in the USA even though Im austrian with a green card. I'm a permanent resident who can own any gun I choose.
> 
> Turns out I have a Iowa City Scheels close by, but there were only a couple guns on the first page that they *actually had in stock!* It looks like actually finding what you want, instead of whatever they have in stock is almost as difficult as buying ammo lately.. Wow this sucks. On the other hand, if I never go pistol shopping after my purchase, I wont know there's a better pistol. Sort of like never driving any other truck were ignorance is bliss. My motto is buy once, cry once.
> 
> ...


Just about all steel and steel/aluminum alloy framed guns have interchangeable grip panels. You've just got to find grips that fit your hand the best. I love your sense of patriotism in wanting to buy an all American made steel gun. But unfortunately your choices will be limited to mostly 1911's. Not that there's anything wrong with a 1911, they're great pistols. But it would not be my first choice if I was only going to buy and own only one handgun. Because they have manual safeties that have to be disengaged before you can fire the pistol if you're carrying the gun for self defense. It's just something else that you have to do and remember. There's three ways to carry a 1911. *Condition one:* Is where you have a loaded magazine with a round in the chamber the hammer is fully cocked and the safety on. When you go to fire the pistol you have to first disengage the safety and then fire the pistol. *Condition two:* With a loaded magazine you first have to rack the slide, safety off, chambering a round and then carefully lower the hammer down. To fire the pistol you have to first fully cock the hammer and then fire the gun. *Condition three:* Is where you have a loaded magazine but an empty chamber. In order to fire the pistol you have rack the slide with the safety off chambering a round and then fire the weapon. Condition one is the most practical way to safely carry a 1911 style handgun for self defense. However you have to remember to simultaneously as you're drawing the weapon disengage the safety. Myself I do not want to have to deal with that in a life or death situation no matter how many times you practice. 

I've also got a Wilson EDC X9 which has an aluminum frame with a stainless steel slide and all steel parts. It's basically a double stack 1911 in 9mm. But do you really want to spend $3,000 for a gun? I bought mine because I just had to have one. These guns are hand fitted and not mass produced that's why they cost so much. But overall it doesn't do anything better in the average persons hands than a good quality $1,400 dollar gun such as the Walther Q4/Q5. Or a $700 Sig, HK, Glock, CZ or whatever.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Lots of cool suggestions. Budget? If you are looking for an inexpensive and aren't afraid of a SA, the Ruger Security9 is a fine choice. Slim grip, nice length, and can accommodate up to 17 round mags. It is backed by Ruger, and that is a positive.
I like my Glock, and since you want 9MM, a G19, but they aren't for everyone. My person has never been a SIg fan. FN is a favorite for me, and they have owned Browning's pistol division sine the 1890's IIRC.
Check out some of the new Rugers. They lost the breadbox feel, and kept the reliability and CS that is above par, or has been for me.

<snip>
I wear a medium glove (8 1/4" around, 7" length) and my smaller hands and stature (165 lbs) is the reason my score went below sharp shooter the more I shot a large and powerful 45 in boot camp.
Horse Hockey. All 2 bits and a dollar worth of grandma LostWife judges you. She shoots a XDM and a G23 like a wildcat. She chases range balls all over the ground and makes people who don't know her nervous when she is working her "man" target.
Lack of proper instruction in boot camp is why you went low. Even a pistol that doesn't fit should do quite well in .mil qualification. You won't find a lot slimmer pistol than a single stack 1911, the only pistol you would ever see in boot camp, and that is pretty rare other than this is it and now you know.
BTW, you are aging yourself. 😆


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

OK I digress. 

Maybe wanting a american made gun is asking to much.. But considering I'm austrian maybe I should go with the 19 or 43X. At least now after reading allot I can compile a list of contenders that I should consider when I visit scheels. There's just so many to note, then to figure out scheels doesn't have it in stock. Cedar valley outfitters has four 9mm semi auto's..


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Spazatak said:


> OK I digress.
> 
> Maybe wanting a american made gun is asking to much.. But considering I'm austrian maybe I should go with the 19 or 43X. At least now after reading allot I can compile a list of contenders that I should consider when I visit scheels. There's just so many to note, then to figure out scheels doesn't have it in stock. Cedar valley outfitters has four 9mm semi auto's..



This is a bad time/market to be a new gun owner.

We've got a bunch of stuff if you can try out if you work your way over to Marshall or Story county.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

VAMarine said:


> This is a bad time/market to be a new gun owner.
> We've got a bunch of stuff if you can try out if you work your way over to Marshall or Story county.


I appreciate that.
Yeah, maybe Ill just have to be content with my nova. But I think theres a good chance september october S will HTF.


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## Expatriate (Nov 11, 2018)

Have you considered a used S&W 3rd gen handgun like the 5906? American made, mid-sized, all metal, 9mm, and they have a cult following...



GunBroker.com - Error


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

desertman, 
You have an impressive collection. 
Love that Q4 SF. Haven’t gotten a chance to shoot one nor the Q5 SF, but I am pretty sure I’ll be hooked once I have the opportunity.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

Expatriate said:


> Have you considered a used S&W 3rd gen handgun like the 5906? American made, mid-sized, all metal, 9mm, and they have a cult following...
> 
> 
> 
> GunBroker.com - Error


I have no problem with used other than the fact I don't want someone else's problem. In fact, Id prefer a gun with a few bruises because then I wont be to worried when I bruise it myself.. But I'm still faced with the fact I don't know if the gun is designed for smaller hands. I'm also unsure how or what hoops I have to jump through.. I bought my nova from a friend which Ive read is legit if my friend was unaware I was prohibited from owning one, which I'm not. I have a drivers license and am not a felon and went through a criminal background check before being hired to work around students.

Is there a network for Iowans to sell pistols?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Zahnarzt said:


> desertman,
> You have an impressive collection.
> Love that Q4 SF. Haven’t gotten a chance to shoot one nor the Q5 SF, but I am pretty sure I’ll be hooked once I have the opportunity.


Thank You!

Indeed I have a wide variety of different makes and models in all shapes and sizes. More than I need that's for sure. Mechanical objects both cars and guns have always been my thing since I was a kid. The Q4 is probably the best made gun that I own. The fit, finish and machining of that gun are second to none and I've taken apart and tinker with every gun that I own. Well worth the $1,400 that I paid for it. It's every bit as good as my Wilson EDC X9 at half the price. If you don't mind spending that amount of money it's an excellent choice.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> I have no problem with used other than the fact I don't want someone else's problem. In fact, Id prefer a gun with a few bruises because then I wont be to worried when I bruise it myself.. But I'm still faced with the fact I don't know if the gun is designed for smaller hands. I'm also unsure how or what hoops I have to jump through.. I bought my nova from a friend which Ive read is legit if my friend was unaware I was prohibited from owning one, which I'm not. I have a drivers license and am not a felon and went through a criminal background check before being hired to work around students.
> 
> Is there a network for Iowans to sell pistols?


Don't ever rule out used guns that are made by a reputable manufacturer. A lot of used guns have seldom if ever been fired. But you just have to know what to look for. As a rule of thumb if the owner doesn't give a shit about what the outside looks like then they sure as hell don't care about the inside. I bought all of these S&W semi auto's used. Each one was under $400. I bought them for no other reason other than I like those early S&W semi auto's that were made in the mid 80's early 90's. All four of those guns are in excellent condition. However they are all out of production and as such I've found that magazines and some parts are getting hard to come by.

If you're only interested in having one handgun and are considering buying a used gun. Buy one that is still in production as you'll still be able to get magazines and spare parts for them. Used 1911's are an excellent buy because of that as they have been making them since 1911 and up to this day. I don't ever see a day when they'll stop making those. Used Glock's are an excellent choice too. They're ubiquitous and really haven't changed that much. Because of that there's an over abundance of magazines, parts and accessories available for them. 

According to this I don't think that you'll have to jump through any hoops in order to purchase and carry a handgun in Iowa.


*HF756 - Iowa's New Weapon Permit Law | Iowa Department of ...*
dps.iowa.gov › hf756-iowas-new-weapon-permit-law
Governor Reynolds signed HF756 into law on April 2, 2021. The law removes the requirement for a permit to acquire or a permit to carry in order to purchase a handgun or carry a firearm in public places subject to certain limitations. Iowans may still obtain a Permit to Acquire Pistols and Revolvers or a Nonprofessional Permit to Carry Weapons by applying through the sheriff’s office in their county of residence.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

> Is there a network for Iowans to sell pistols?


Yes. Will explain more later.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

__





Iowa Gun Classifieds, Buy and sell your firearms for FREE - gunlistings.org


Gun Classifieds in Iowa - Free to Buy, Sell, Trade your Guns and Firearms Locally - Guns For Sale in Iowa



www.gunlistings.org





On the topic of person to person sales, having lived in other states where person to person sales of handguns was allowed, many sellers wouldn't sell to you without a carry permit etc.

How it will play out here remains to be seen.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## dirtygary (Oct 5, 2016)

Do you want an excellent reliable handgun that you can get for about $450? Take a look at the Canik TP9 SF Elite and read the online reviews. It will fit a medium size hand great.


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Here's an all steel American option, Kahr T9. They make a few other steel pistols. Kahr Arms Model T9 9 mm Variant-1
A polymer option for less $: S&W Shield Plus with 13 round magazine should have a long enough grip. Smith & Wesson Model M&P Shield Plus 9 mm Variant-2


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

Ive compiled a list.

Glock Model 19/43/42
Walther P99, Walther PPK, Walther P5
springfield 1911 emp
Springfield XD
Springfield EMP
HK VP9 or HK VP9 SK
Sig P238, P320, and P365 XL.

I think the kicker is, even though I'm right handed. I broke my right elbow mooring a CG cutter when jumping from the deck, onto a rotten and snow covered dock in poughkeepsie ny and cant straighten it completely now. This was after I fired the SW 45 in boot camp, so I don't know exactly how this might effect my ability to shoot. I do know every time I throw a frisbee, it goes left lol.. But my right elbow has been bothering me a little lately.

Is the Glock 19 and HK VP9 the only pistols on my list that can be set up left or right handed? Or are there other ambidextrous 9mm pistols I should consider?

Thanks!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> Ive compiled a list.
> 
> Glock Model 19/43/42
> Walther P99, Walther PPK, Walther P5
> ...


Out of that list you really have to go and handle them all to see what's right for you. It's kinda' like buying a pair of boots, one size does not fit all. As far as caliber goes and if this is going to be your only handgun don't go below 9mm. There are plenty of ambidextrous pistols on the market most of which are DA/SA and SA only semi autos such as a 1911. They typically have slide mounted or frame mounted safeties or decocting levers. Some have reversible magazine releases. Not too many of those have ambidextrous slide releases. 

Most striker fired pistols do not have safeties that you have to deal with. Only until recently have manufacturers added them to their line of pistols. Having a safety on a striker fired pistol kind of defeats the purpose of them anyway. You can now get an ambidextrous slide release on a Gen 5 Glock G19 both the Gen 4 and Gen 5 Glocks come with reversible magazine releases. HK has a paddle release and is ambidextrous to begin with. They also offer the VP9 B that has a reversible button release. Both have ambidextrous slide release levers. But whatever you do never go left.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

desertman said:


> There are plenty of ambidextrous pistols on the market most of which are DA/SA and SA only semi autos such as a 1911. Some have reversible magazine releases. Not too many of those have ambidextrous slide releases.
> 
> You can now get an ambidextrous slide release on a Gen 5 Glock G19 both the Gen 4 and Gen 5 Glocks come with reversible magazine releases. HK has a paddle release and is ambidextrous to begin with. They also offer the VP9 B that has a reversible button release. Both have ambidextrous slide release levers. But whatever you do never go left.


I've visited Scheels and narrowed it down to the ambidextrous Glock 19X or the VP9, but they don't carry the VP9-B. I didn't like the G19 , G43 or P365XL because the grip's were to short to hold well. I'm leaning toward the 19X but wish they offered it in black instead of turd.. Not that big of a deal though.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> I've visited Scheels and narrowed it down to the ambidextrous Glock 19X or the VP9, but they don't carry the VP9-B. I didn't like the G19 , G43 or P365XL because the grip's were to short to hold well. I'm leaning toward the 19X but wish they offered it in black instead of turd.. Not that big of a deal though.


Turd? That's "coyote" to you son. I don't think that they offer it in black as of yet? At any rate Glock is an excellent choice. They've withstood the test of time and use. All the one's that I have worked straight outta' the box. Glocks are now being made in the good old USA but the majority are made in Austria. Some are a combination of parts from both countries and are assembled in the USA. So that should satisfy your criteria of being Austrian and made in the USA.

Glocks are about as minimalist as they come and probably have the least amount of moving parts of any semi auto that I know of and I've taken a wide variety of different makes completely apart. They are without a doubt the easiest guns to work on beyond a basic field stripping for the average person with some mechanical abilities. There are also God only knows how many parts and accessories available for them both aftermarket and OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer). Finding a holster won't be a problem either.

Some people don't like the paddle style magazine release on the HK's. That's why they came out with the VP9-B. I find that with a paddle release there's less of a chance of the magazine being released accidentally while carry the gun on a regular basis. I've had that happen with guns where the button sticks out a little too far or the magazine release spring may be too soft. I'd take the gun out from the holster only to have the magazine fall out. I'd be like, how the f'k did that happen? But I've never had that happen with a Glock or a HK. You can be sitting down in a chair or getting in and out of a vehicle where the gun presses up against your body just enough to push the magazine release button in.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

desertman said:


> Turd? That's "coyote" to you son. I don't think that they offer it in black as of yet? At any rate Glock is an excellent choice.


I just figured out why I don't like "coyote".. It reminds me of the gulf war and all the lives lost because of Cheney's lie about weapons of mass destruction. 

What Ive learned is _the G19X is being discontinued. G19X was created for a US Army solicitation, but since it lost, the G19X is redundant and really doesn’t serve a function now that the G45 is in full production. The G45 was created to be the permanent LE and commercial variant of the 19X. _

The G45 is black. But I don't think its ambidextrous. Not sure yet.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> I just figured out why I don't like "coyote".. It reminds me of the gulf war and all the lives lost because of Cheney's lie about weapons of mass destruction.
> 
> What Ive learned is _the G19X is being discontinued. G19X was created for a US Army solicitation, but since it lost, the G19X is redundant and really doesn’t serve a function now that the G45 is in full production. The G45 was created to be the permanent LE and commercial variant of the 19X. _
> 
> The G45 is black. But I don't think its ambidextrous. Not sure yet.


The G45 is indeed ambidextrous. I'm pretty sure that all of the Gen 5 Glocks are ambidextrous. They make so many different models that it's hard to keep up with them all.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

desertman said:


> Glock makes so many different models that it's hard to keep up with them all.


Agreed. But either the grip is to short to hold firmly G43,G19. Or the grip is full size and long enough G19X G45 G17, but the diameter is to large for smaller hands. I found myself lurking on womens pistol forums and most of them were talking about compacts with short grips. No wonder most women don't feel comfortable with hand guns because they cant hold on for long!
Its to bad no one builds a pistol with a narrow mag and grip (one bullet after another instead of staggered) but full size so your little finger can still grip the pistol. Yes, less rounds but more confidence and control.

Manufactures need to figure out one size doesn't fit all regarding full size pistols. And maybe start listing details like grip length and diameter? They just pump out a generic size that fits most hands. Or a compact your small finger cant grab.

Rant over..


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Spazatak said:


> Agreed. But either the grip is to short to hold firmly G43,G19. Or the grip is full size and long enough G19X G45 G17, but the diameter is to large for smaller hands. I found myself lurking on womens pistol forums and most of them were talking about compacts with short grips. No wonder most women don't feel comfortable with hand guns because they cant hold on for long!
> *Its to bad no one builds a pistol with a narrow mag and grip (one bullet after another instead of staggered) but full size so your little finger can still grip the pistol. * Yes, less rounds but more confidence and control.
> 
> Manufactures need to figure out one size doesn't fit all regarding full size pistols. And maybe start listing details like grip length and diameter? They just pump out a generic size that fits most hands. Or a compact your small finger cant grab.
> ...


Glock makes the G43X that is a single stack 9mm with a full size grip. Although not a double stack, Sig's P365, P365 XL grip frames are about as narrow as you can get. If you find that it's still too short you can get extended 15 round magazines that come with a plastic baseplate/sleeve which for all intents and purposes blends in with and extends the grip. A lot of manufacturers also offer grip extensions with a pinky rest for their standard flush fit magazines. Unfortunately it would not be cost effective for any manufacturer to produce a pistol for every size hand. That's why some offer interchangeable back straps and grip panels. Such as on HK's VP series of pistols. 

Of course there are full size 9mm 1911's that are single stack. However their grip frames are the same size and width as their 45's and you can get removable grip panels which come in different sizes from thin to thick. The one's on mine are are thick. But even with thin grip panels, their grip frames are about as wide as Sig's P365 series of guns. So which would you rather have 10 rounds in a 1911 or 15 rounds in a P365, P365 XL with an extended magazine. Mine is the P365 not the XL. The extended 15 round magazine also comes with a shorter magazine base plate/sleeve to accommodate the P365 XL's longer grip.




























*Sig Sauer P365 XL 15rd Magazine W/ Grip Extension*

www.joeboboutfitters.com › Sig-Sauer-P365-XL-15rd


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

desertman said:


> Glock makes the G43X that is a single stack 9mm with a full size grip. Although not a double stack, Sig's P365, P365 XL grip frames are about as narrow as you can get. If you find that it's still too short you can get extended 15 round magazines that come with a plastic baseplate/sleeve which for all intents and purposes blends in with and extends the grip. A lot of manufacturers also offer grip extensions with a pinky rest for their standard flush fit magazines. Unfortunately it would not be cost effective for any manufacturer to produce a pistol for every size hand. That's why some offer interchangeable back straps and grip panels. Such as on HK's VP series of pistols.
> 
> Of course there are full size 9mm 1911's that are single stack. However their grip frames are the same size and width as their 45's and you can get removable grip panels which come in different sizes from thin to thick. The one's on mine are are thick. *But even with thin grip panels, the 1911 grip frames are about as wide as Sig's P365 series of guns.* So which would you rather have 10 rounds in a 1911 or 15 rounds in a P365, P365 XL with an extended magazine. Mine is the P365 not the XL. The extended 15 round magazine also comes with a shorter magazine base plate/sleeve to accommodate the P365 XL's longer grip.


OK.. NOW I get what single stacked means.. I need to do research on single stacked full size 9mm pistols and then get back to scheels when its not busy..

Or maybe a compact, but the extended magazine must feel like, and be the same size as the grip.. Thanks for your patience desertman.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Personally, I like the design of the VP9 SK with pinky rest on the extended magazine. This gives you a compact pistol with a longer grip.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Zahnarzt said:


> Personally, I like the design of the VP9 SK with pinky rest on the extended magazine. *This gives you a compact pistol with a longer grip.*
> View attachment 19847


That's exactly right, you can also get a 13 round extended magazine that comes with a pinky rest. The VP9 SK also accepts 15, 17 and 20 round magazines of it's bigger brother the VP9. You can buy a sleeve with a pinky rest for the 15 and 17 round magazines or specifically buy a 15 round magazine that already comes with one. The 15 and 17 round magazines are the same physical size. They only recently came out with a 17 round magazine. H&K VP9 SK Genuine Heckler & Koch Parts for sale at HKparts.net sells just about everything for these pistols. They also make magazine extension kits for standard size magazines.

If I could only have one brand of polymer framed pistol it would be HK all the way. They really are that good both in ergonomics and build quality. They're not as easy to work on as a Glock as they may be a bit over engineered. But in my opinion they are the best polymer framed pistol on the market today.

If someone is only planning on buying one gun. A compact version that shares the same magazines with its bigger brother is the way to go. As it gives you more options.









Flush fit 10 round magazine.









Flush fit 10 round magazine with pinky rest.









13 round magazine as they come.









15 and 17 round magazine without the spacer sleeve. The sleeve is similar to the one on the 13 round magazine only taller.









20 round magazine. I don't think that they make a sleeve for these as of yet. But I suppose one for the 15 and 17 round magazines could be altered to fit.









They all work in the same gun.









My VP9 Long slide with 20 round magazine.


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## Jester560 (Jun 22, 2020)

I am late to the thread but....don't overlook the Canik TP9 Elite SC.


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Jester560 said:


> I am late to the thread but....don't overlook the Canik TP9 Elite SC.


That’s a good call. Canik TP9’s get great reviews across the board and seem to be some of the best value pistols.


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

Thanks..

I have to be realistic about whats available right now locally. My time line is end of august, and no one can guarantee me they can get anything in two months.

Here's the only single stack 9mm full size pistols I can actually get my hands on locally. About 150 more than online, but hey.. I like supporting my local businesses and you cant spend it after you've passed.. 

Which one?


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## Zahnarzt (Jun 6, 2021)

Black one is slick!


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Seems like you're going back to the platform you're familiar with, that's good. 
Most of the other guns mentioned were striker fired, hammerless. 
Are you familiar with the different mechanics of a striker gun, ? 
Is this gonna be an every day carry gun ?
Are you gonna be carrying with a round in the chamber ? 
Have you felt and pulled the trigger of a striker fired DAO ?
It's hard to buy a gun that you've never held before. 
I've been deadset on a gun I knew I wanted from reviews, magazine articles, etc 
Only to change my mind once I've put the gun in my hand. 
Good luck in your decision


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## Spazatak (Jun 1, 2021)

Yes I'm familiar with the differences.

No not EDC. Only home self defense and maybe open carry if things get hairy this fall. 

Yes Im worried about ordering a gun is why I was leaning toward the DW 1911. But it is SA.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I feel bad, the gunstores are stacked overflowing over here. There's to much to look at. 
I do understand supporting your local lgs.
Good luck


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