# Are night sights really worth the money



## XDGirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Hi im new to Guns and Ive been told that i need to get some night sights. Do i really need them are they that important.


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## BeefyBeefo (Jan 30, 2008)

Night sights can greatly help with sight acquisition in low light conditions. Assuming one of the roles of your handgun is home defense, that would be one good reason to have night sights, since low light conditions are very probable in that setting...among others...

-Jeff-


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## Scratchshooter40 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Night Sights . . . .*

Night sights are extremely helpful for that first shot aquisition in a dark environment. Once you have been exposed to muzzle flash it takes awhile to see the night sights again. We train in a "clearing house" in the late evening, early night at the S.O. and the best thing I have depolyed is a guide rod laser sight as I can aquire it very quickly. Each individual varies as to recovery from muzzle flash. Generally we practice point-shoot method in the clearing house as we keep the weapon close to our body and check corners as a team. Never do the TV thing, clearing the house with the weapon at full extension, especially at a corner. You're just asking to have it pulled from your hand if the bad guy is waiting at the corner and has the presence of mind to do it. That being all the weapons we carry have some sort of night sight on them, department purchasing procedure.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Buy the Nitesiters - for 10 bucks, they work fine for the rare occasion you may need them. The downside is that you have to hit the decals with a flashlight for a few seconds. However - I have tested them on my nighstand before. When I wokr up the next morning, they were still glowing enough to be of use. Just gotta do that once per night and you are good to go for the rest of the night.

As good as nightsights? U decide. It requires no gun alterations and is only $10...

http://www.nitesiters.com/


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Night sights are nice to have, and I have them on my Glocks, but they are not totally essential for a practiced shooter. In low light, a shooter with good technique can make short-range hits by simply using his stance and grip. However, while this is fairly easy on the range, it gets exponentially more difficult when the shooter and target move (as is practically guaranteed in a real fight).

A good technique for those lacking night sights is to use the muzzle flash to confirm that the sights were aligned at the shot. This is easier to do than it sounds.

We did some fairly extensive night fire at Gunsite a couple weeks ago, and no one was even close to being blinded enough by muzzle flash that they were unable to see their night sights. I call BS on that claim.


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## kev74 (Mar 22, 2008)

I've got the Nitesiters and am happy with them. Even if they are not charged up, you still have a nice bright, clean white dot. :smt023


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## Old Padawan (Mar 16, 2007)

I have done a fair ammount of night shooting. They help a lot and are worth the money.
I have never had a problem picking them up for the second shot.
I like Trijicon. Mepro are good, and the XS is ok.


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## Scratchshooter40 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Call what you like on it*

I gave an honest opinion based on my experience in actual situations from an 8 year stint in the Marine Corps to experience as an investigator in a South Georgia police department. Muzzle flash affects me as it did 30 years ago. Say what you will, I know that all I or we can submit is our opinion from our experience. Have a good weekend.


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## Ram Rod (Jan 16, 2008)

Most of us value experience and opinions here.


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## submoa (Dec 16, 2007)

*As a novice*, focus on improving your skills before worrying about night sights. If your marksmanship needs improvement with the lights on, night sights won't make a difference and might just distract you by encouraging you to try to align your sights in the dark instead of moving and shooting.

Build your skills and upgrade to night sights when you become proficient.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Scratchshooter40 said:


> I gave an honest opinion based on my experience in actual situations from an 8 year stint in the Marine Corps to experience as an investigator in a South Georgia police department. Muzzle flash affects me as it did 30 years ago. Say what you will, I know that all I or we can submit is our opinion from our experience. Have a good weekend.


Maybe your eyes are especially photosensitive. We had 19 people (all recent OIF/OEF vets with "experience in actual situations") at Gunsite and no one had any issues with muzzle flash blinding them. Not saying it's totally impossible, but it seems like a poor reason to avoid night sights.


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

To me the only thing night sights are going to do is give you your first shot. In low or no light the flash is going to mess with you a lot. I like night sights OK but they are no substitute for practice. Get used to where your gun is when you bring it up. Get to where your muscles know where the right spot is. If the time comes heaven forbid that you have to draw your weapon to save you or your family things are going to be moving really fast. You will need to be able to bring your pistol up and aimed all the while your freaking out. practice is the only thing you can do that will help you when your out of time to think.

I have some pistols with night sights and others I have used sight paints to make them easier to see in all kinds of light, Some even can glow if introduced to a light source for a few seconds. Midway has some stuff I like a lot. (Product #168586) http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=168586&t=11082005

There are some model paints that can work pretty well too but I don't think it lasts as long. Testers model paint is best I've seen as to model paint. I personally like the paints from midway.

HmmmMMmmm I seemed to ramble on again...Sorry about that
Night sights are pretty neat but not always the best choice I guess I wanted to say.


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## Ptarmigan (Jul 4, 2008)

Not trying to start an argument, but what kind of ammo are you guys shooting that mess with your eyes when shooting in the dark or low light? I have done a lot of night shoots, both as a shooter and instructor and never had any problems, nor seen others have problems with the muzzle flash. 

I could see a potential problem with maybe a .357 Magnum but the 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP and .38 Special I have never experienced anyone who had issues.


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## 2xTap (Aug 7, 2008)

I think someone mentioned guide rod lasers earlier. This is what I did for my G27, rather than night sights. Much more expensive, but here is how I look at it; Anything that may potentially aid in saving your's or your family's lives is worth the money, whether it be your night sights, lasers, etc. Afterall, this is why we buy the guns in the first place.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

The Muzzle flash can be drasticaly reduced through ammo/powder selection.

Being a handloader, I try different powders from time to time. Using 2400 in .357 loads produces a 2+ ft. diameter fire ball in mid day whereas a bit more pricey powder Vihta Vuori N340 produces none.

Similar differences will be found with other powders in other calibers.

Some ammo manufacturers do a better job of flash reduction than others so you need to search out what works for you regarding cost vs. flash and other characteristics.

:mrgreen:


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## Deltaboy1984 (Jun 1, 2008)

Get them :smt023


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

In low light, lining up night sights is a lot easier than lining up white dots. However, if there's no light, you won't see your target. But if it's pitch black, the BG can't see either, and unless he's got night vision, he'll just hurt himself running into walls and tripping over tables.

As far as muzzle flash, it depends on the ammo. Blazer Brass always produces a 12-18" wide flash, but I've never had even similar results from premium defense JHPs. I don't recall how much flash I had from Gold Dots or Cor-bon DPXs, but the Hornady TAPs produce virtually nothing. They advertise it with a low-flash propellant, and they're right. If you're worried about muzzle flash, test a few different brands/loads of JHPs, and I think you'll find there won't be much, at least not enough to blind you in low light. Also keep in mind my testing is out of a 3" barrel...a shorter barrel will often produce a larger flash because some of the powder is still burning when the bullet exits the muzzle.

For home defense, nothing accompanies a gun better than a flashlight. Even if you can put your sights on the chest of a dark figure in the middle of the night, a flashlight can tell you if it's friend or foe. Get one that can easily be flicked on and off with your weak hand, and keep it next to the handgun at night.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> For home defense, nothing accompanies a gun better than a flashlight.


I'll just say that the best accessory I have to my pistol is my cell phone, because in the statistically improbable senario where someone breaks into my home, I'm not gonna go looking for them, I'm going to barracade myself in the room I'm in and wait for them where I control the environment. I'm gonna call the cops, I'm gonna tell them I called the cops, I'm going to listen to them run out of the house, then I'm going to speak with the officer and go back to bed.

Zhur


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## PhilR. (Apr 25, 2007)

If your concern is the possible use of your handgun for self-defense in a low or no-light situation, then you first need to buy a good flashlight. And I don't mean one that you put on the handgun. If the light levels are so low that you cannot see your sights, then they will be too low for you to identify your target. Once you have a decent, bright and reliable flashlight, then you can consider a set of night-sights. 

Last spring, a police officer in NJ shot his delinquent daughter when she sneaked back inside the house late at night. She had just entered the basement of the house, and dad shot her. I think there is a good chance that if he had been able to identify her, that he would not have shot her (most dads will *not* shoot their daughters). Keep in mind that this is a trained professional, and since he successfully hit her in a darkened basement, there's a fairly good chance that he had night-sights on his service handgun.

One last thing to consider - if you have a decent flashlight and light up an intruder, you will not need night-sights. Your regular sights will stand out in silhouette quite well. I am also *not* saying that night-sights are useless, as I have them on my primary home-defense handgun. It's just that my HD handgun sits next to a very bright flashlight. Also, I have no problem hitting a man-sized target at bedroom-width distances without using the sights anyway......

PhilR.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

I have night sights - and a Surefire Z2 flashlight that puts out 128 lumens! This light will definitely cause momentary blindness to a perp.

Best accessory you can buy. Plunger switch that allows you to operate the flashlight with a two handed gun grip via the Rogers technique.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Keep in mind, that once you "light up" an intruder, in an environment that is dark enough for you to REALLY need a flashlight for identification, the effects are about 60% as bad for you as they are for the person on the receiving end of the light bath. That's why it's best to barricade yourself and wait. This assumes you know where all the friendlies are in your home. You never want to go looking for a BG regardless of what kind of light you may have. Again, the statistical probability of someone actually breaking into your home is small, and can be reduced by some simple measures, like motion lights and such (aka dogs). Now, that being said, the statistical probability of a break-in happening to someone on this forum is even lower, so we are talking about millions to one here. Sure, prepare for the worst and hope for the best, but a lot of this talk is just wishful, or should I say unwishful thinking.

Zhur


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Agreed Zhur, on the strategy. My plan is definitely not to go room to room clearing my house. However, I can tell you for a fact the effect to the shooter of my Z2 is not 60% as bad as it is for the perp. I've been on the receiving end of that light too and it is no fun. Believe me, it is a big advantage to me, at least in the set up and lighting in my home. Once it has been flashed in your eyes in a low light situation, you can't see anything for quite a few moments, and most definitely cannot acquire a target with a gun. In the meantime, I'm emptying my weapon at COM.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

60% was an arbitrary number... 50%...40%... 30% either way, sure a flashlight gives you an advantage, I just wanted to point out that it's a skill that must be practiced. Flashing a light is much different than holding a beam on someone. Keep in mind, on internet forums, you often times talk to the lowest common denominator. No offense to you personally. When I present information, I try to keep that in mind. If you haven't practiced with, and do not know what to expect, a person could be just as blinded as the BG. 

I used to do some drills with a guy I know indoors, at a range, and we had to discern good guy from bad guy targets with a momentary flash of the flashlight. Flashlights that don't have a 'momentary on' switch are not real practical in this scenario. The Z2 qualifies as it has a momentary on press button. The problem is, some people think that big old D4 lights are the pinnacle of awesomeness, but they have a toggle button, which is too much light for too long. Sure you can partially depress them, but again stress is the killer here. 

Either way, light is bad for dark, and dark is bad for light. Meaning, if you are in the dark and show light, you are exposed, even if momentarily. If you are in the light, anyone in the dark can see you. Turning your light on too long can blind you just as it is blinding the BG. We used to talk about splash lighting. Lighting the wall vs. the BG. It serves two purposes, most people will look to where the light splashes, turning them off of you, if just for a second, and it isn't directly coming off of them. Either way, you are splitting hairs. Take into consideration that this is information from a guy I know, who showed me a lot of good stuff, it doesn't mean that it's from the bible by any means. If someone has contradictory information, I will accept it if it is from an accredited source. People go off what they've seen, or been trained in, I may be wrong, but it made sense to me. The Z2 with the upgraded bulbs are pretty damn bright, and I know for certain that in my house, given a break-in, however unlikely, I'd probably just turn the lights on and find cover. I'd also yell out that I'd called the police, which would likely end the encounter. There are thousands of scenarios, not all of which fit every person/home/situation. It's all just base line advice. 

Zhur


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

I'll dissent with the knowledgeable *PhilR.* a bit and say that there are some lighting situations in which the target can be identified but the sights can't be seen. Anyway, an enemy combatant can also sometimes be easily identified by muzzle flashes directed at you. :mrgreen:

House lights are much better to use in most circumstances, assuming you feel the need to wander through the house asking the bad guy to shoot you.

Learn how to "flicker and move." And for gawd's sake, if you think you might have to shoot a guy while using a flashlight, train yourself to move laterally after putting the guy down and dousing the torch.


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

I agree that turning on the house lights is better, assuming you have electrical power. I always leave certain lights on throughout my house anyways. Obviously owning a hand held flashlight is common but I like the idea of having a light attached to my gun so I can either have one hand free or both hands holding the gun. I also agree that searching through your house for a BG is not the best thing to do, but depending on where the bedrooms are situated and if there are other family members in other bedrooms (specifically children) than one may have no choice but to encounter the BG with the intention of protecting family members in other areas of the house.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Just curious guys, why is it for sure better to have house lights on in an intruder scenario? I'm not disagreeing, but isn't there some advantage to darkness when you are much more familiar with the floorplan and where all the obstacles (furniture etc), cover, and escape routes are than the BG?


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## unpecador (May 9, 2008)

Good point *Wyatt*, my response is positive identification of the BG as opposed to possibly shooting at an unintended target. Also, in the darkness, and probably under stress, obstacles such as furniture may work against you. One more, the possibility of multiple BG's in different locations of the house would likely be easier to spot with the lights on.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, as far as having lights on, I think it'd be advantageous as well. For the following reasons.

1. BG would probably leave if lights come on.
2. You know where he'll be coming from, so you can focus your defense.
3. Mis-identifying a target could be tragic.
4. When police arrive they will appreciate not having to clear the house with no lights on.

One thing that I have, but need to get more switches for, is the x10 system X10 Home automation system. (The website is ugly, but their products work well) You can program the remote to turn on certain parts of the houselights, all the lights, inside, outside and such. These little controls are a serious advantage. You wanna turn on the living room lights? *bing* Done. You wanna turn all the lights on?*bing* Done. These are the types of things that I reference all the time as being "other ways" to avoid conflict. A couple hundred bucks can give you peace of mind, which is priceless.

Zhur


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

The idea that the defender has any kind of advantage in the dark is an illusion. Mostly likely, if it's dark, you've just been awakened from a sound sleep. You'll be clumsy and disoriented, with your eye not fully adjusted to the available light.

The bad guy, by contrast, is wide awake and probably jacked on adrenaline if not some type of illegal drug. 

The idea that you can slink around your house with ninja-like stealth (with trusty 120 lumen Surefire in one hand and pistol in the other) in the above condition and defeat a bad guy in the above condition is crazy. He'll hear you way before you hear him, and he will either run or wait to ambush you.


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## JagFarlane (Jul 23, 2008)

PhilR. said:


> If your concern is the possible use of your handgun for self-defense in a low or no-light situation, then you first need to buy a good flashlight. And I don't mean one that you put on the handgun. If the light levels are so low that you cannot see your sights, then they will be too low for you to identify your target. Once you have a decent, bright and reliable flashlight, then you can consider a set of night-sights.
> 
> Last spring, a police officer in NJ shot his delinquent daughter when she sneaked back inside the house late at night. She had just entered the basement of the house, and dad shot her. I think there is a good chance that if he had been able to identify her, that he would not have shot her (most dads will *not* shoot their daughters). Keep in mind that this is a trained professional, and since he successfully hit her in a darkened basement, there's a fairly good chance that he had night-sights on his service handgun.
> 
> ...


Just another story to back that up:

A few years ago a man heard someone moving around in his house. He took up his shotgun, came out, and saw a figure moving around in the darkness. And, without warning, shot and killed the person moving.

The person turned out to be his daughter, several months pregnant, whom had come over for a visit with her parents. Had he had a flashlight, his daughter and his grandchild would have lived.

Do yourself a favor and get a good flashlight. Surefires are very popular, small in size and put out one helluva beam. If you don't want to pay the price for one, Maglites are proven, and a 2D-4D makes for a helluva baton [8D is actually illegal in some states, like NJ]. Or even go with Princeton Tech, they make ones out of Lexan that are virtually indestructable [I've beaten them against metal picnic tables, thrown em off a cliff...shall I go on?], run about $15-20 and are small enough that you can palm it in your offhand against a firearm without too much issue [practice that first though!]


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## JagFarlane (Jul 23, 2008)

Wyatt said:


> Just curious guys, why is it for sure better to have house lights on in an intruder scenario? I'm not disagreeing, but isn't there some advantage to darkness when you are much more familiar with the floorplan and where all the obstacles (furniture etc), cover, and escape routes are than the BG?


All the better so they leave, you get a decent description of them, and get to prolong making that moral choice of having to take another human beings life. Remember, you're just defending your home, not being a SWAT member clearing out a drug house.


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## Wyatt (Jan 29, 2008)

Good points about having the house lights on. Especially like that remote control system you mentioned, Zhur. That sound like a great idea and I will definitely check into it.

BTW Mike, as I previously mentioned, my defensive plan does not involve slinking around the house ninja-style, half awake. But I do appreciate the colorful description in order to bring home the point. I am indeed one of those that feel holding ground in the bedroom area with my family behind me while communicating with LE on the cell phone is the only way to go. 

I just wasn't clear that house lights on would be an advantage to me when I can remain in the darkness and hit the hallway leading to the bedrooms with momentary flashes from the Z2, lighting up the BG's area of the house but keeping me and my family concealed in darkness. It is certainly something to think about.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Wyatt said:


> BTW Mike, as I previously mentioned, my defensive plan does not involve slinking around the house ninja-style, half awake. But I do appreciate the colorful description in order to bring home the point. I am indeed one of those that feel holding ground in the bedroom area with my family behind me while communicating with LE on the cell phone is the only way to go.


And you are indeed a wise man! The safe room concept has much to commend it, if you can make it work. I have a daughter in a room opposite the house, so I will have to move across an unsecured area to recover/protect her. The current plan is for the wife and I to move as a team to the daughter's room and make the stand there. But we will not slink in the dark, risking falling down or bumping up against an unseen bad guy. We will just turn on the lights and move briskly across the loft to the kid's room. (I say "kid," but she's sixteen.) I cover the top of the stairwell while the wife enters the daughter's room.

I would not want to do this with just my Surefire, but of course I will _bring_ the torch in case I need it.



> I just wasn't clear that house lights on would be an advantage to me when I can remain in the darkness and hit the hallway leading to the bedrooms with momentary flashes from the Z2, lighting up the BG's area of the house but keeping me and my family concealed in darkness. It is certainly something to think about.


It depends somewhat on the layout of your house lights, in that situation. Once you light up the bad guy with your Z2, though, you need to either shoot or move. Otherwise you risk incoming fire directed at the last place you activated the light.


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## Scratchshooter40 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Light bulb went on, a little late . . . .*

In order to simulate being shot at we have imbedded flash strobes in the course which do affect my recovery time, sometimes drastically though not so much as a perp with a 12 ga. would. That combined with the range ammo we shoot, generally Speer in a totally unlit environment causes a little hesitation in the ability to re-acquire night sights. That having been said, I do have night sites and a guid rod laser in my CCW. I know that the exposure to a Nikon type flash may be a little more harsh than a handgun being directed towards you, but when operated at random and in varying low light conditions, it can and does affect my ability to re-acquire the nite sites, the laser I can see immediately.


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

I have had great respect for night sights ever since I first used them. In real darkness, with common muzzle flash they can be picked up after the first shot; say with .45 ACP and 9mm; possibly 40 caliber. I have no night experience with the .40. 

If one is shooting a .357 or +P rounds from other revolvers and pistols, I would have to agree wtih Scratchshooter40 that there can be considerable difficulty finding the sights after that first, huge muzzle blast. I had no problems with excessive muzzle flash, or picking up the sights again using ball ammo in semi-auto pistols. I cannot speak to some of the modern, JHP's and such that might be higher power. 

I consider night sites for use in truly dark situations where one cannot see one's sights clearly or at all, to get that first shot on the target. They are not absolutely essential, because practiced, point-shooting works too at close range; but they help a great deal.


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## ttomp (Jan 28, 2008)

they are good, you can see where the gun is on your night stand with the lights off.


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## hi im drummer03 (Oct 27, 2008)

I think night sight are extremly helpful.All my guns from now on will have them.Basically shooting at night without them is like trying to shoot with your eyes close...


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## KCabbage (Jun 4, 2008)

I think their worth it


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## Magicmanmb (Jan 6, 2007)

Personally prefer the 24/7 xs big dot sights. Night sights I can do without

As long as I have a flashlight that has a high enough lumen to blind an attacker I'm fine. Also Hornady TAP has a lower flash to help reduce the loss of your night vision


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## bigben09 (Dec 23, 2008)

for the price, why not.


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