# Importance of Laser Placement



## crazz (Jan 21, 2008)

I was wondering why all of the laser/light combos have the laser under the light, thus further from the barrel. Seems like it should be the other way around.



The closer the target that you calibrate your laser to, the more of an angle the laser will be at compared to the line of fire, making it even less accurate at other distances. 
Two ways to reduce this problem.
1- Try to have the laser line of site close to the line of
fire. (Mount the laser in line with the barrel)
2- Calibrate the laser at a VERY far distance. (This wil
reduce the angle of the laser compared to line of site, 
but will reduce accuracy at close range)

WHAT DO YOU THINK?


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## crazz (Jan 21, 2008)

*Range makes a difference also in accuracy with this configuration*



Do you think that laser above light is more accurate than light above laser on a rail setup for a range of 2 to 25 yards?


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

crazz said:


> WHAT DO YOU THINK?


I think it's entirely academic, because handgun lasers are designed for defensive use of pistols. Defensive shooting is almost invariably fast, close, and crude. The M4s we use over here, and that the American gun community swoons over, have a huge sight offset. At house-clearing distances - basically defensive handgun fighting range - it hardly matters.

Anyway, just sight the laser in at your likely fighting distance (under 7m) and you'll be fine. The chances of needing to make a 25m head shot with a defensive pistol are basically nonexistent.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I've always wondered the same thing. That's why I got rid of the weaver rail and reflex sight on my P22 because it sat so high above the barrel I was getting drastic grouping differences at varying distances once sighted in on a particular distance. But as Mike said, a difference in a few yards in a close-quarters self-defense bout won't make the laser aim so far off you can't make a decent shot to the chest. I've considered a laser for my P99 but my thinking is that for self-defense, being able to consistently and instinctively aim at the chest of the average sized person is important, and for some reason I think shooting with a laser would make me less of an instinctive shooter. I may be talking out of my ass with that one, but that's the main reason for not getting one, other than the fact that they're kinda pricey. I'm all about reflex sights and scopes when you have plenty of time to aim, but in a self-defense situation, that time isn't there. I guess the reason is more along the lines of I'd like to be able to draw, aim (point effectively), and fire very quickly instead of relying on setting a laser dot on the BG's chest. But whatev. I'm considering a tac-lite for camping though.


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## crazz (Jan 21, 2008)

*You guys make a good point*

I guess the type of situation I was thinking of was if an aggressive intruder was in my house hiding behind a corner with a firearm, and a small portion of his body in view. It would be nice to surprise him with a dead on laser assisted shot. Ofcourse I'd have to be real quick with the laser since he'd probably notice it a second or so after I activated it.

Also with the laser aiming for me I wouldn't have to expose myself as much as I would for lining up the shot with the iron sights.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I don't think I would have a laser or tac-lite on my handgun for home defense. If I think someone is downstairs and I'm sneaking down the steps, a laser or light would give my position away. For camping though, a tac-lite would be sweet. My gun points where the light is.


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## crazz (Jan 21, 2008)

This thread was just part of my thinking process, to see if I should get a laser/light. I'll probably get one of each but may end up preferring not to use either one once I try em out. 
That's when you'll see em on ebay.:supz:


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I can understand why lasers would be expensive...they're lasers. But why do tac-lites cost so much? Are they that bright?


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I agree w/ Mike. You won't be using your laser for precision long range shooting. There is a deviation from your iron sights to the barrel too. Yes, closer to the bore line is more accurate, and high-mount scopes have the same issue, but your illustrations are overly dramatic.

Even mounted one inch below the barrel, and zeroed at 7-10M, your POI will be only 1/2 from the laser dot between 5 and 25M.

That said... know your equipment. If your gun hits 1/2 inch above the laser at 20M, and 1/2 inch below the laser at 5M, you should know... So you can choose an eye-ball hit over a forehead hit...

PS... If you're picking which eye-ball to shoot through... It's MURDER. If you're firing defensively at Center-of-Mass... It's Self Defense.

My $0.02


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## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

PS...

Internal lasers are NOT adjustable for POI anyway...


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> II'm all about reflex sights and scopes when you have plenty of time to aim, but in a self-defense situation, that time isn't there.


Reflex/red dot sights are _faster_ to use than iron sights. That's why we all have them over here.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I don't think I would have a laser or tac-lite on my handgun for home defense. If I think someone is downstairs and I'm sneaking down the steps, a laser or light would give my position away. For camping though, a tac-lite would be sweet. My gun points where the light is.


Unless you're a ninja, you aren't going to be sneaking up on any home invader. He's more than wide awake and alert, pumped full of adrenaline, and his eyes are adjusted to the dark. You, by contrast, have been taken by surprise and maybe just woke up from a sound sleep.

And, uhhh, you don't have to turn the light on. Even the CT laser diodes can be covered with a finger, and most of them have an on/off switch.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

crazz said:


> I guess the type of situation I was thinking of was if an aggressive intruder was in my house hiding behind a corner with a firearm, and a small portion of his body in view.


Screw those tricky shots. Unless you live in a house made of stone, you can very likely just shoot right through the wall and hit the guy. (Assuming you have positively identified him as a legitimate target, of course.)

Most handgun bullets will go through 3-4 interior walls, so claiming a guy on the other side of one shouldn't be much of a trick.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I am a ninja. 'nuff said.


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> I am a ninja. 'nuff said.


Overconfidence has killed many. I have personally seen the results.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Mike, just read this please: http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm TURN THE VOLUME UP!!!

Scroll down the first reponse on the QandA. "very careful and precise."

:smt042 :smt042 :smt042 :smt042 :smt042 :smt042 :smt042 :smt042 :smt042


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