# What would you do???



## JeffWard (Aug 24, 2007)

I propose a new Forum.

"What would you do?"

Posters would post re-life scenarios that you, as a CCW holder, might find yourself in. Then discuss tactics, legalities, and opinion.

Here's the first:

You are shopping for a snack to get you home on a long ride. You are in the convenience store, later at night. Just you and the clerk, who is bored as hell behind the counter, reading. You are carrying your normal CCW, in your normal rig. It is your home town.

A lone BG, bursts though the door, and does not know you are 3 isles away, behind the cover of a metal shelf and some chips... The BG goes directly to the counter, and threatens the clerk with a gun for the money in the drawer. He is small, but highly agitated, and swinging the revolver in his hand around wildly.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

What does the law allow?
Why would you do it?
Would you risk your life for a stranger?

Jeff


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## Navy Jake (Oct 14, 2007)

I am not too sure, but depending on the situation, I would more than likely put my 7+1 right into him then wait for the police.

Sure you could wait for the BG to get the money and run.

But if he killed the cashier then ran, I could never let it down.


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## Navy Jake (Oct 14, 2007)

Here is one right back.

You are in a mall shopping (single no family) when you hear shots being fired and people running away from them, do you run away with the crowd? 

Or do you run torward the shots hoping to catch the gunman off guard?


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

JeffWard said:


> I propose a new Forum.
> 
> "What would you do?"
> 
> ...


1. Arizona law allows you to intervene. But you can't just shoot him/her in the back.

2. I would draw and be ready but would not intervene unless it appeared the clerk was about to be shot. I can't say exactly what would trigger that opinion but know it would occur. If it appeared so I would holler drop it or I will shoot. If he/she then swung on me I would let a couple go then evaluate and possibly shoot some more.

3. Probably so. I will not know for certain unless a situation occurs.

:smt1099


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

Navy Jake said:


> Here is one right back.
> 
> You are in a mall shopping (single no family) when you hear shots being fired and people running away from them, do you run away with the crowd?
> 
> Or do you run torward the shots hoping to catch the gunman off guard?


It depends a great deal on just how close the shooting is to my position. You can get shot in the back running away. I would find some cover then evaluate what is going on. Shots can be coming from police guns as well as BG's and you better know which before you start trading lead pellets. If I saw someone spraying the crowd I would attempt to stop him/her

:smt1099


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

TOF said:


> Shots can be coming from police guns as well as BG's and you better know which before you start trading lead pellets.
> 
> :smt1099


Police could be shooting and you could end up shooting an a plain-clothed cop. Or you could draw yet move away and be mistaken by LEOs as the BG. ALWAYS know the entire situation before you draw and/or fire. Great example we got in CCW class was a CCW holder drew his gun on a "bum" who had a gun on a man in a suit. Turns out the man in the suit was a drug dealer and the "bum" was a cop busting the guy. Get to cover and assess the situation before you take action.

I've said it many times before here and on other forums; I carry for my protection and for the protection of my family, not others. I'm not a LEO and have no sworn duty to protect others. I have no delusions of grandeur of running in, guns a blazing and saving the day. Now if I can do something, I'm not saying that I won't, but if I can't do it without putting myself or my family in danger, the cops are going to get a good witness.


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## Navy Jake (Oct 14, 2007)

Todd said:


> Now if I can do something, I'm not saying that I won't, but if I can't do it without putting myself or my family in danger, the cops are going to get a good witness.


Sound advice taken


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## Navy Jake (Oct 14, 2007)

it looks like the general idea is to find cover then draw. 

Man I guess I need to take a CCW class.


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## glock27bill (Dec 29, 2007)

Read a thought provoking article by Ayoob. He posited several scenarios, mixed race, apparent victim/bad guy. The point is you never what you are walking into--undercover minority cop vs well dressed drug guy, etc. You rarely know who the bad guy is unless you are the one being attacked.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

I would draw and be ready but until myself or the clerk was in imidiate danger I don't believe it is in my right to fire. I had the, "Use of Force" imbeading in my brain while active duty Air Force as a Security policeman. 

There are sooooo many varibles to these senerios that it is realy hard to say A, B, or C on what to do.

My first concern would be if my family was outside in the vehicle. that would change everything.


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## john doe. (Aug 26, 2006)

Navy Jake said:


> Here is one right back.
> 
> You are in a mall shopping (single no family) when you hear shots being fired and people running away from them, do you run away with the crowd?
> 
> Or do you run torward the shots hoping to catch the gunman off guard?


I would tend to go toward the shots fired just because that's the way I was trained in the Air Force. Such as the recent incident in Omaha.


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## vernpriest (Jan 15, 2008)

Michigan requires you to be in "grave and imminent danger of life or limb". If you shoot, you better be able to prove you had no other option. Shooting a man in the back makes it hard to prove you had no other options. Best to stay hidden and keep a drawn weapon on the individual until it becomes appareant that you have no other option. You have to remember that the people deciding your legal fate (prosecutors and jurors) will be doing so from the comfort of safe and sound offices and courtrooms so it better be very clear cut. This may seem unfair, but it is a reality if you decide to carry a gun.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I'll represent Kentucky.

KRS 503.070 Protection of Another

(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when:
(a) The defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect a third person against imminent death, serious physical injury, kidnapping, sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055; and
(b) Under the circumstances *as they actually exist*, the person whom he seeks to protect would himself have been justified under KRS 503.050 and 503.060 in using such protection.

(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

Given the circumstances, the store clerk would be justified in using deadly physical force for self protection, so I would be justified in using deadly physical force in his protection. Assuming I could fling some lead his way without risking danger to the clerk, others in the store, and those outside the windows, yeah I'd pop him until he dropped the gun and hit the floor or ran. Then wait for the police to arrive.

Situation two...take cover and look. If the shooter is shooting random people in the mall, it's a safe bet he's not an undercover cop. But if an LEO sees you charging down the hallway with a gun, you might get waxed. Hard to tell without actually being there as there are many variations to that scenario.


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