# Obama just gave cops the OK to simply take your stuff



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

Obama just gave cops the OK to simply take your stuff | New York Post


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## budrock56 (Feb 2, 2012)

What stuff?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Back to the days of the Crown. The SCOTUS ruled back in the 80s that paper money is not yours, it belongs to the Federal Reserve.


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## Bobshouse (Jul 6, 2015)

budrock56 said:


> What stuff?


All your stuff.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Civil forfeiture is unconstitutional but the courts say its OK........ There have been numerous horror stories concerning this floating around the internet....... Here is but one:
https://www.erowid.org/freedom/law/forfeiture/forfeiture_media4.shtml


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## ybnorml (Nov 26, 2014)

Bobshouse said:


> All your stuff.


I lost all my stuff when the canoe tipped over....even lost the shirt off my back !!


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

BackyardCowboy said:


> Obama just gave cops the OK to simply take your stuff | New York Post


great idea, the cash and the drugs are usually separated.

Its not as bad as it sounds, I'll have to back the plan.They been doing it for years. They confiscate a lot of drug money this way.

I knew three separate incidents years ago, one incident the person was traveling down to Florida (before Arizona became the pipeline)with $110k , to pick up his pre planned purchase order. The cops pulled him and a friend over. Very nervously answered the cops questions, cops seized the money until he could verify the stories of the two men.

they hired an attorney and got a high percentage of the money back, because a lack of real evidence. But it was drug money


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Well first off, the president cannot order police to do squat. They are not hired by us via the federal government, but rather by local governments and state governments. So Obama is out of the loop in this one.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Initially it was a fed law according to the article. I think the state's used the Feds decision to also profit from subsequent drug related seizures,, I'm gonna copy n paste a part of the article that involves the federal involvement, and shows how the state's have been reaping the rewards of the seizures also.

Civil forfeiture allows police to seize private assets, often without any proof of wrongdoing, and often the agency doing the seizing gets to keep all or most of the proceeds. The federal civil forfeiture program was passed in 1984 as part of President Ronald Reagan's Comprehensive Crime Control Act. It was intended for use against major drug traffickers and cartels.
Now police use the "adoptive forfeiture" aspect of the law to avoid the higher burdens of proof and other restrictions on asset forfeiture that states have been enacting. If the underlying actions that state officials are investigating also constitute a federal crime - like simple possession of marijuana - then the relevant assets may be forfeited to the feds.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

> pic said:
> 
> 
> > great idea, the cash and the drugs are usually separated.
> ...


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I understand,,
The money confiscated is usually in transit. When the police pull you over and your eyeballs are bulging out of your head , and the car is packed with cash, little red flags go up,lol.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

It is nothing more than legalized theft. Taking from some one without any due process is clearly a violation of the 


Bill of Rights letter of the law and also intent of the law. I know a person who was abused by the seizure laws. He lost $2,000.00 cash, lawyer cost and missed out on a stud horse that would end up getting $750.00 stud fee. It was clear what the money was for it was in with the papers about the horse and a Bill of Sale ready to be signed.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

pic said:


> Its not as bad as it sounds, I'll have to back the plan.They been doing it for years.


You are correct, its worse than it sounds...... The fact that they have doing it for years means nothing.... Sadly the courts say it is not unconstitutional yet it is............ The courts up to and including the U.S. Supreme Court are watering down our constitutional rights more and more...... We The People just allow them without saying a word........

Me thinks the founding fathers would be ashamed of how We The People have become "ball-less"......


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If customs agent find 500k stashed in a vehicle about to cross the border, what should that border agent do?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

tony pasley said:


> It is nothing more than legalized theft. Taking from some one without any due process is clearly a violation of the
> 
> Bill of Rights letter of the law and also intent of the law. I know a person who was abused by the seizure laws. He lost $2,000.00 cash, lawyer cost and missed out on a stud horse that would end up getting $750.00 stud fee. It was clear what the money was for it was in with the papers about the horse and a Bill of Sale ready to be signed.


I agree it's not a perfect system, but what system exists that is perfect, the justice system, the political system, abortion, gun control, etc,,,, it's not a perfect world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> *If customs agent find 500k stashed in a vehicle about to cross the border, what should that border agent do?*





> Critics argue that innocent owners can become entangled in the process to the extent that their right to property is violated, with few legal protections and due process rules to protect them in situations where they are presumed guilty instead of being presumed innocent. Further, critics argue that the incentives lead to corruption and law enforcement misbehavior. There is consensus that abuses have happened but disagreement about their extent as well as whether the overall benefits to society are worth the cost of the instances of abuse.


That's a good question. As a "Constitutionalist" I'll have to side with the "critics". If there aren't any illegal substances found, they should be free to go their own merry way. That being said I would have no problem with tracking that vehicle to it's final destination and if any criminal activity were observed then they could make an arrest.

Relinquishing our civil liberties to a corrupt and monopolistic government will never be the answer. No matter how few "instances of abuse" occur. Government already has too much control over our lives. It would be one thing if governments were in it for the greater good. They are most emphatically not. People will lie, cheat, steal and prostitute themselves, relegating themselves to the lowest common denominator for some crummy little political office. Just observe what's going on right now. Placing our faith and trust in those types of people can only lead to the ultimate destruction of our once great Republic of which the founders of this nation warned us of.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

pic said:


> If customs agent find 500k stashed in a vehicle about to cross the border, what should that border agent do?


Forbes Welcome


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

budrock56 said:


> What stuff?


All kinds of stuff............:watching:


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

One of the most devastating Actions facing our country today is the WAR ON DRUGS. We can not allow the politically correct , liberal minded to dissolve a necessary tool to fight the war on drugs. 
It's a battle we are losing. 
There will be collateral damage, as in any war. 
The effect of abolishing this altogether will have far greater consequences in comparison. This liberal attack against the WAR ON DRUGS, should not be supported .
:smt1099


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The problem is that they are not using it just for the " War on Drugs" or the " War on Organized Crime" . It is being abused all over the country, A stretch of I-40 in OK. , Another on I-75 in Ga. and local departments nation wide there is a big difference between 500k crossing the boarder and a farmer going to buy a stud horse or a newly wed couple going on their honeymoon or some one moving across the country having their money stolen by the people who are to protect them from thieves. The only way this should stay on the books is to make a 100k fine to Departments who abuse the law payable to the person who was abused.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Criminal Cases Against Police Show Why Civil Forfeiture Must Be Abolished
Forbes Welcome


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

tony pasley said:


> The problem is that they are not using it just for the " War on Drugs" or the " War on Organized Crime" . It is being abused all over the country, A stretch of I-40 in OK. , Another on I-75 in Ga. and local departments nation wide there is a big difference between 500k crossing the boarder and a farmer going to buy a stud horse or a newly wed couple going on their honeymoon or some one moving across the country having their money stolen by the people who are to protect them from thieves. The only way this should stay on the books is to make a 100k fine to Departments who abuse the law payable to the person who was abused.


I agree 100% , the abuse should be investigated, the imperfections closely examined. But to abolish it altogether, like I said above will have greater negative consequences..
Tony , I've asked not just you but anybody, if a vehicle is found about to be transporting 500k across the border, what actions should the customs agents take?
I,ve seen old folks transporting drugs and cash.. They come in all shapes n sizes, lol.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Does anybody see the relevance of abolishing something that's very effective but is not perfect, and the anti gunners wanting to take away your guns , how many innocent lives are lost because of guns?

The interjection of massive amounts of drugs into our society should get everyone mad. But yet we talk of protecting the civil liberties of criminals. It's a politically correct view for the few.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The cases I know of it was plain what these people were doing with their money. I am one that does not like to use credit cards I would rather pay cash as I go and usually do. I earned it I should be able to spend it the way I choose without having to be concerned about Law Enforcement stealing it from me. Also what I do not wish to leave a paper trail on how much ammo I buy or what I ate for lunch or what movie I went to see.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

pic said:


> I agree 100% , the abuse should be investigated, the imperfections closely examined. But to abolish it altogether, like I said above will have greater negative consequences..
> Tony , I've asked not just you but anybody, if a vehicle is found about to be transporting 500k across the border, what actions should the customs agents take?
> I,ve seen old folks transporting drugs and cash.. They come in all shapes n sizes, lol.


What about amending the law to Require criminal charges?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I don't understand the Obama part, it was initiated by Reagan when we declared war on drugs.

Amending the law eliminates the effectiveness of the law itself. If you Believe what the media feeds us , we would be without guns and any other tear jerking story somebody links on the site.

What the article (media) leaves out , is how positively effective this Reagan law has been in our battle against drugs. Smuggling cash, smuggling drugs, border confiscations. We don't have many laws in effect that help the war against drugs.

We hear a few sad stories and we become a pacifist, I say string em up, let em hang.

By saving a few innocents we will let 1000's get away. I guarantee some of those few innocents are guilty as caught.

The civil forfeiture act has been very successful......

Forfeiture is Reasonable, and It Works : Publications : The Federalist Society


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

This goes against the intent and letter of the law the Founding Fathers established. In most every country in the world you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. You could be arrested and held with no proof your property seized you were never secure in your life or possessions from government abuse and being falsely accused. They founded this country you are innocent until proven guilty. Now do we live under the crown or in a republic?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I totally understand TONY, it only makes sense to protect the innocent. I believe in the same thing, no doubt.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If we didn't have Witch hunts in the past, we would be overwhelmed with witches today


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The witch hunt is fine until non=witches are burned at the stake.
Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

The civil forfeiture needs to be abolished and/or revised..... As it stands it is open to law enforcement abuse and many law enforcement agencies are taking full advantage of it......

Here is a 13 year and counting horror story.....
13 years later, man's war with U.S. over 'shoebox' cash rages on | Chicago Sun-Times


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