# New Member, New Shooter, have questions!



## rpickette (Sep 1, 2011)

Hey everybody, I'm new here and a new shooter and was looking for a little advice. I've been hitting the local range occasionally, trying to figure out what I like before buying and have so far tried out a Bursa 38, glock 22, and a h&k 44. I found that I really like the squeeze cocker on the back of the h&k. I have permanent injuries in my shoulders which has caused me to lose a lot of strength and dexterity in my arms and hands. I have almost no strength left and my hands often shake. My shoulders will sometimes give out when lifting...ect....point being, I feel like I need to be extra considerate of these things when choosing a handgun. Any suggestions?


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

rpickette said:


> Hey everybody, I'm new here and a new shooter and was looking for a little advice. I've been hitting the local range occasionally, trying to figure out what I like before buying and have so far tried out a Bursa 38, glock 22, and a h&k 44. I found that I really like the squeeze cocker on the back of the h&k. I have permanent injuries in my shoulders which has caused me to lose a lot of strength and dexterity in my arms and hands. I have almost no strength left and my hands often shake. My shoulders will sometimes give out when lifting...ect....point being, I feel like I need to be extra considerate of these things when choosing a handgun. Any suggestions?


if strength is an issue then i would suggest trying the old wheel guns..... you dont need to have any hand strength to grip a slide and it doesnt care if you limp wrist it, reloading is easier (no need to mess with stiff mag springs)

just my opinion


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

oh, and forgive my manners..... welcome from southern oregon


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Depending upon the nature of damage to your shoulders you might find it easier to hold a heavier weapon steady than a lighter one. Or just the opposite. You should try to determine the optimum weight for a weapon in light of your injuries.

Have you done all the rehab that is available? Is this a strength issue? Can you do resistance exercises to improve the strength?

When it comes to improvement due to exercise, doctors don't really know what they are talking about (from my experience). So there might be some significant improvement available with the right exercise regimen.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Packard said:


> Depending upon the nature of damage to your shoulders you might find it easier to hold a heavier weapon steady than a lighter one. Or just the opposite.


way to make a stand! or not..... depending on your view of course....

decisions are sometimes difficult but not always for the most part.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> way to make a stand! or not..... depending on your view of course....
> 
> decisions are sometimes difficult but not always for the most part.


If weakness is causing the shakes then a lighter weapon will help; if nerve damage is causing the problem a heavier weapon might settle down better. We don't know much about the injury, the age of the shooter, what rehab he has done, or his general health. So lacking that information all advice has to be quite conditional.


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

Welcome from Florida.

One of the best ways,Is to look up a pistol range that rents pistols. Then you can test some of them out. That is the best way to fine one that works best for you.Look in to Colt* S&W*Para*Glock*Kimber*Sig*Beretta*Walther.Now for me,The two best are Glock-S&W Pistols. In 1911-Colt then Para-then-Kimber. To me it is the insides of the pistol I look in to.

I would look in a Walter PK380.Very light and very easy to shot.If your looking for a ccw pistol.This pistol would not be so hard on you arm.And it hold 8+1.Easy to hide on your body as well.

Good luck to you,And have a lot of fun testing out the best sport in the world.:smt1099


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Packard said:


> If weakness is causing the shakes then a lighter weapon will help; if nerve damage is causing the problem a heavier weapon might settle down better. We don't know much about the injury, the age of the shooter, what rehab he has done, or his general health. So lacking that information all advice has to be quite conditional.


we do not need to know any of those things to answer his question.... he gave us his limitations so do we really need his medical history or his rehab schedule to guide him? i think not. given his stated limitations, what do you suggest?


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> we do not need to know any of those things to answer his question.... he gave us his limitations so do we really need his medical history or his rehab schedule to guide him? i think not. given his stated limitations, what do you suggest?


I suggest he pick up various weight handguns and see which seems to be most steady in his hands.

I know that a heavier rifle (up to a point) tends to settle in on a target more steadily than a lighter one (for me). So the O.P. should experiment with various weight guns. And with one hand and two hand holds (there are more than one type of two hand holds and one of them might work much better than the others for him).

I also know that doctors don't know that much about the ability of the human body to respond to rehab. I tore a large section of my pectoral muscle doing heavy bench presses (and hemoraged over 50% of my torso). The doctor said I would never bench again. But two years later I was back over 400 pounds on the bench so the doctors were all wrong. (But I allowed them to keep me on anticoagulants for 2 months to prevent any edemas.)

So I'm saying that the "permanent" damage might not be as permanent as it might seem--even in the face of doctors telling you otherwise.

Maybe even the act of shooting a couple of times a week will effect improvements in the shoulders. Only time will tell. But any time a doctor tells you that "you will never..." he is wrong.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Packard said:


> I suggest he pick up various weight handguns and see which seems to be most steady in his hands.
> 
> I know that a heavier rifle (up to a point) tends to settle in on a target more steadily than a lighter one (for me). So the O.P. should experiment with various weight guns. And with one hand and two hand holds (there are more than one type of two hand holds and one of them might work much better than the others for him).
> 
> ...


so his original question about what handguns would be recommended is meaningless to you?

we should also find out what kind of car he drives and his spaghetti sauce preference before we take a shot at answering his questions......


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

rpickette said:


> Hey everybody, I'm new here and a new shooter and was looking for a little advice. I've been hitting the local range occasionally, trying to figure out what I like before buying and have so far tried out a Bursa 38, glock 22, and a h&k 44. I found that I really like the squeeze cocker on the back of the h&k. I have permanent injuries in my shoulders which has caused me to lose a lot of strength and dexterity in my arms and hands. I have almost no strength left and my hands often shake. My shoulders will sometimes give out when lifting...ect....point being, I feel like I need to be extra considerate of these things when choosing a handgun. Any suggestions?


First, a little housekeeping. Then my usual "way more than two cents" on his original question.

Anyone who hangs around these forums knows that I am a sarcastic old f_rt fart who loves to show off his touch-typing skills expanding on just "any 'ol subject".
And I love a flame war. And I much appreciate past expert input from both *TedDeBearFrmHell* and *Packard*.

But, I humbly ask you two to knock off the flaming, or take it up in a separate thread or in PM's. As a Forum, we are better than this. 
This gentlemen's needs come first. I'm not talking about your "positive suggestions". And now I'll step off my pretentious soapbox.



rpickette said:


> Any suggestions?


We have a newbie with some honest concerns, and some physical symptoms outside of our "normal gun recommendation" parameters.

I'll have to say I can think of some suggestions. But, without being there in person to access *rpickette's* situation, I'm going to pass on all my normal "try this or that" stuff.

So, the best I can do is say you should nose around "the range" you mention, and I'm pretty sure you will find a person who will be understanding and helpful about your situation.

People who frequent gun ranges pretty much fall into two types.
1. Those who want to demonstrate their expertise about all things firearm. And want to make damn sure you know they are ultimate experts.
2. Those who want to sincerely help any newbie or rookie or even an expert in any way that they can.

Ask around a bit, and I'm betting you can find at least one of the latter. Good Luck. :smt1099


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## cclaxton (Jul 10, 2011)

Walther PK380 is best choice IMHO because of easy slide operation, easy trigger, not very heavy, etc. 

If lightweight is required:
Ruger LCP
Bersa 380 ThunderCC
If you can hold a heavier gun and recoil is the issue, there are a lot more options: Beretta PX4 Compact 9mm Constant, Sig 232, Cz 83, Beretta Cheetah 84, etc.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> so his original question about what handguns would be recommended is meaningless to you?
> 
> we should also find out what kind of car he drives and his spaghetti sauce preference before we take a shot at answering his questions......


We cannot make meaningful recommendations until we understand the nature of the impairment.

Perhaps he needs a light weight weapon that allows a good grip and has a light recoil: S & W: 351C

Perhaps he needs a weapon with a short trigger pull and significant weight to settle down the weapon: Full size 1911, steel

Perhaps he needs a light weight weapon with a long trigger pull because of shaking: Glock (any)

There are many other factors that can be brought into play. But what we cannot do is make a recommendation lacking adequate information. I might recommend the 10 ounce, light recoiling 351C (based on assumptions) and he might need a large, heavy weapon with a light trigger pull.

You made an assumption about hand strength; I would have assumed the strength issue was from the shoulders. What is causing the shaking? Strength, pain, or nerve damage?

I would refrain from any recommendation until the OP supplied more information. When I feel I have adequate information to make a recommendation I will do so (and not sit on the fence).


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

Packard said:


> We cannot make meaningful recommendations until we understand the nature of the impairment.
> 
> Perhaps he needs a light weight weapon that allows a good grip and has a light recoil: S & W: 351C
> 
> ...


of course


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

In my years has a (JROTC Marksmanship Instructor). Most important of all is that the shooter MUST be able to shoot the weapon accurately and control its recoil adequately.The .45 and .44 and.50 calibers are great, but not everyone can control them.With disabled and/or handicapped shooters.22 LR pistol and revolver, letting them get used to a minimal level of recoil, and become reasonably accurate, before moving on to higher-powered cartridges. From this level,I find most of them *stick* at about the .38 Special.

So the best way you can help your self, Is to be on the range. And do as much as you can. So it is all up to the shooter. Their are many 4-H and NRA R.O.'s Instructors. On the ranges to help you. They will love helping you,This is why they put 100.s of hrs in to help shooter's..And so many hrs doing tests. So they worked hard to be a marksmanship instructor.To be certified.

Their is not a thing on this site we can help you with. You have to be at the range,And practice*work hard*train. Improvement begins with understanding and mastering the fundamentals of marksmanship.Improvement is achieved through training and the analysis that comes from keeping a shooter's journal. So your skills,And your disabled will be all up to you.

And I know you will master it. I think your heart is in it. I don't know what level your handicapped is. But I know you will master everything.

If you see your self,Becoming a master shooter.You will.Everything comes down to you now.

PS. Go to the 2012 olympic, You will love seeing the most best shooter's in the world. Shooter's coming from around the world. :supz:

Good luck to you,And make it fun.

Cateye.


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## rpickette (Sep 1, 2011)

I've actually yet to go to a doctor, I didn't have insurance for years so now that I do I need to get in and start getting this crap figured out. I'm hoping I can finally get it fixed but I am a little leary of the usual being tossed into physical therapy with no real idea what's really going on in there nd then given up on and having pain meds shoved down my throat. But the pain has increased exponentially over the years and does seem better after a little excercise but DAMN....I pay for it later! But yeah I figured id experiment with different, I've found I do have a bit of a problem controlling recoil and reloading is definitely a chore for me. Just want some suggestions to expedite the proccess a bit.


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## rpickette (Sep 1, 2011)

Oh and btw, lol, I'm a lady!


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## rpickette (Sep 1, 2011)

The lack of hand strength is a problem that has trickled down from years of the shoulders going unfixed. The shaking comes and goes on its own with and without pain. Its random which I assume is nerve damage. The lighter the weapon the better though, cuz my arms tend to give out when bearing weight. When I tried the glock 22 it felt awkward and clumsy while the h&k 44 felt great in my hand, the rear squeeze cocker worls great for me because it forces me to have the firmest grip possible making me more sure of my shot. The downside to it was it was just a bit big, a little bit heavy (not unmanagebly so but still) and I think after a long day on the range the recoil would kill me. But so far that has definitely been my favorite.


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

:smt180 We have more young lady's in are 4-h class,Then young men. Some of the top shooter's in the world. Are lady's .


rpickette said:


> Oh and btw, lol, I'm a lady!


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't know what for sure to say here, but feel as though I should chime in. If I had a medical background, I could give some technical advice, but I don't so I will just give what I feel as though is a common sense approach. The problem with the handgun is that it is an unstable weapon in the first place, where as on a rifle one has three points of body contact to help stabilize the gun. Having hand/arm/shoulder issues just compounds that problem. I have not got to the point in life yet where my strength in going away, but will eventually. I do have "shaky" hands, at times, and I have no reason to explain why sometimes and sometimes not. (Mental/Physical?) No matter what handgun you handle you will probably have problems with. If you have problems with the reload, then maybe a semi-light revolver would be the way to go. There are, in my humble opinion, more to do on a semi auto reload than the revolver reload - not to mention if your gun jams up and having to do a malfuntion clearing drill on the semi auto. The chances of a revolver jamming up are remote at best. I believe revolvers have a tendancy to be a little more stout in the recoil department due to the fact that a reciprocating slide helps soak up some of the recoil, as well as a polymer reciever doing the same. I would suggest going with a lighter caliber revolver like a .32 H&R Magnum or maybe a .38 Special with lighter loads. Also, the revolver world has come a long way with alloy frames to help keep the weight down, but sacrifices a little on recoil - thus maybe the lighter caliber styles over lets say a .357 Magnum or .44 Special. They say the .327 Magnum has about 30% less recoil than the .357 Magnum does, but approaches .357 Magnum balistics. That may be one to consider. I a semi auto I would stick with a polymer framed one with a caliber no heavier than 9mm. I carry a Beretta Model 84F chambered in .380 ACP, which is a 9mm Kurtz (Short). The gun has an alloy reciever, which helps keep weight down and at the same time it is a "hand filling" gun that gives better stability because you can get both hands comfortably around the gun to control it. The .380 ACP (9x17mm) is just about as low as I would go for self defense, but with the right load will get you through the night without excessive recoil. In the end, it is all about what you can control and get accurate hits with. JMHO.


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## JBarL (Sep 15, 2011)

Well if I can throw my 2 cents in. as stated already maybe look into revolvers. very little effort in loading or unloading the cylinder un like a magizine on a semi-auto. with that said come another issue grip size keep in mind med frame revolvers and large frame revolvers will have bigger grips on the firearm go to a gun shop handle all the revolvers they have in the store. ask if they rent guns and possible try some out. if you get a revolver that the grip is a little large there are several grip makers out there that make different sized grips. its real easy to change a grip on the revolver just make note there are two types of revolver frames, 1 is called a square butt, 2 is a round butt. the square butt at the bottom of the handle it will be flat. the round butt will have a curviture shape to the bottom of the frame usually the round but holds a smaller grip. but if I may suggest one more thing. check out in your area, locate some instructors who can help you with trying different shooting stances until you get the strength back in your arms and shoulders, And may I say Hope you get better soon. with that good luck on your decision and get to feeling better and happy shooting.

JBarL


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## johna91374 (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm going to throw my .02 cents in the ring here and ask if you car rack the slide on an auto. Judging by the guns you mentioned I'm going to assume that you can perform this action.

With that said I'm only going to recommend one gun. The Sig SP2022. I've shot a couple of these and have been very impressed with each one. The gun comes in 9mm or .40 S&W. The reason why I'm recommending this over a ton of other guns is it's one of Sigs polymer guns so it's lighter than most. The polymer also soaks up a bit of the recoil making it easy to shot even in .40. The price is also around $400 so it cheap and it has proven to be every bit as accurate and reliable as the alloy Sigs.

I've been contemplating adding one of these guns to my collection for a while now but haven't pulled the trigger (pun intended) for one reason. I think the gun is actually too light for me as I'm use to larger heavier models.

Check it out for yourself.

SP2022


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