# Why isn't the five seven more popular?



## NasHouston (Oct 15, 2015)

Everything I've heard says very powerful, little recoil.

Is it just cause of the price? 

Is it all just hype?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

NasHouston said:


> Everything I've heard says very powerful, little recoil.
> 
> Is it just cause of the price?
> 
> Is it all just hype?





> Gun Review: FN Five-SeveN - The Truth About Guns
> For some gun gurus, the Five-SeveN is the handgun equivalent of the world's most fire-proof paper hat. It's a brilliant technical achievement but who cares? For one thing, you're more likely to find Keira Knightley at Country Buffet than a box of 5.7×28mm ammo at K-Mart. For another, firing-off a hundred rounds of Five-SeveN ammo costs more than draining a particularly good bottle of Scotch. As for the weapon itself, you can buy two Springfield XD's for the price of one of FN's strangely-chambered pistols. Did I mention that the Five-SeveN's safety sits on the side of the gun's barrel? Or that the grip is longer (end-to-end) than War and Peace? All of which makes the Five-SeveN a novelty gun for impressing range rovers who Glock around the clock. Right?


This article may answer your question.


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## jtguns (Sep 25, 2011)

A friend of mine has one and loves shooting it. But when we had the ammo shortage it became the hardest ammo to find, unless you are willing to stock pile a bunch of ammo it is an orphan round with limited manufactures of that caliber. Currently you can get some but I would find a more available firearm with a better choice of ammo.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

jtguns said:


> A friend of mine has one and loves shooting it. But when we had the ammo shortage it became the hardest ammo to find, unless you are willing to stock pile a bunch of ammo *it is an orphan round with limited manufactures of that caliber.* Currently you can get some *but I would find a more available firearm with a better choice of ammo.*


You're quite right about that! If the shit ever hits the fan. Good luck! I'm surprised no one makes a small compact pistol for that round. That I might be interested in but could only recommend that caliber gun to someone who has more than one handgun. Another one of at least a more common caliber. But for an only gun, no thank you. I almost bought one though, but it felt like a Mattel toy. I've had no desire to own one since. You can get a real nice HK or Sig and have some money left over for the price of one of those things.


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

There's more to a 'successful' caliber than technical excellence at the ballistic spread sheet.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

What's stated above and because there's 9mm, 40cal, and .45cal.

If you do happen to get the ammo at those prices you can only obtain the civilian watered down version and as far as I know not a whole lot of other manufactureres are producing pistols or rifles in that chambering, that would be the real kicker......


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

I think it's more ammo related than anything. Around me, you only see it on occasion...and it is pricey. The pistols are pricey too. Combination of those two factors make a perfect storm for a gun that does not have a lot of appeal, overall. JMHO.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

berettatoter said:


> I think it's more ammo related than anything. Around me, you only see it on occasion...and it is pricey. The pistols are pricey too. Combination of those two factors make a perfect storm for a gun that does not have a lot of appeal, overall. JMHO.


Maybe for a collector or future speculator, but that's about it. I really don't see it going any further than that. If it wasn't for Ft. Hood, and I really hate to say this, there might never have been any interest in it at all. Infamy at work.


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## Bobv (Oct 31, 2013)

Ammo is not that hard to find, you can also reload it. The reason I think is the price, people don't want to pay 1400.00 for a pistol. The pistol is very accurate especially long range.

I enjoy the heck out of mine, very light with even packing all 3 20 round mags.


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## Spike12 (Dec 10, 2008)

IN addition: 9mm, .40cal and .45acp are either or have been selected by the military at one point in time. That means there's *a lot* of surplus ammo or surplus guns around - CHEAP.

I think the 5.7 answers questions nobody is asking.


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## Illyia (Jan 12, 2017)

NasHouston said:


> Everything I've heard says very powerful, little recoil.
> 
> Is it just cause of the price?
> 
> Is it all just hype?


I think you can find the answer to your query in the posts that followed yours - and shall follow mine.

The FiveseveN is a gun people either "get" or they don't. It's as polarizing as Donald Trump. Those that love it, sleep with it, and obsess about it's performance. Those who don't, never miss an opportunity to demean it even when they have absolutely no firsthand experience with it...welcome to internet where EVERYONE is an "expert."

I happen to own a myriad of handguns of all calibers and have at one time owned one of just about everything, and in many cases several. I've been handloading since 1973, and can WELL remember during my Army time how much derision was heaped on the M16/AR15 by all the experts of that time...which was just about EVERYBODY....yet now, the AR15 is has become the quintessential "Modern Sporting Rifle" despite a near endless stream of those who claimed it had no sporting purpose, (as if THAT is the ONLY reason to own a gun). When the 9mm first became popular...same thing...it's a puny round that can't stop a 90 year old grandma on a walker....my how that round virtually took over mainstream AMERICA yet it is in FACT no more "powerful" than the mil-spec loading of the 5.7x28 from the Fiveseven.

Thanks in part to the Ft. Hood shooting where Major Nidal Hassan used a FiveseveN loaded with OVER THE COUNTER ammo that is intentionally loaded "light," the cartridge PROVED what it is capable of....I think 45 "examples" of young, strong men and women in their prime being taken down with the "commercial" variant round is quite substantial PROOF that the round is deadly, and WILL "stop a human" in their tracks. Let us NOT forget all the shootings with other handgun calibers where a person was shot many, many times and still kept charging (Ferguson)....which is ALSO indicative of just what's wrong with the post-modern thinking about handgun "stopping power" versus reality.

When I refer to "commerial" rounds I do so because soon after FN marketed the gun in the Drama Republic of United States, the usual and expected calls for it's banning went out. ONE way to cope with that was to shift from the original 27 grain aluminum core, .8" long bullet at a nominal 2,200 fps, to the 40 grain V-max bullet at a pedestrian 1,730 fps (nominal). Why such a drop in speed? Because even the poly-tip V-max round going slow will ALMOST make it through a TL-IIIa vest! Bump up the velocity a few hundred fps and it probably would penetrate. This is the same reason the American Eagle 40 grain FMJ is even slower....just over 1,620 fps (nominal), because any faster and it too would punch through a "3a" vest. Certainly the bullet can be easily driven to 1,900 fps as can be witnessed by watching people work up the loads on YouTube. The only reason for the factory to build such slow ammo is to avoid the negative publicity that would surely follow any shooting with the "real 5.7x28." They had to go with a heavier slug because once the 27 grain slug drops below 2,100 fps it's ability to cycle the FiveseveN becomes seriously impaired. It lacks the mass to deliver enough inertia to the slide face. The 40 grain slugs, even going slow, create more slide thrust while keeping things "tame" on the business end.

Elite Ammo makes a 32 grain turned copper bullet that is driven at just 2,200 fps from the FiveseveN and it with punch through BOTH sides of a Kevlar ballistic helmet plus the "gel head" inside! It will punch through a TL-IIIa vest like it's not there and then through another foot or more of gelatin, with a massive shockwave and violent tumble. It is a very violent round! Elite loads the FN aluminum core bullet under the name "S4M" with a measured speed across a chronograph of nearly 2,450 fps from the FIVESEVEN pistol! This round of course punches through kevlar like it's butter, and goes on to violently tumble, even separating the core and creating multiple wound tracks! Now, THESE are the rounds the gun is CAPABLE of shooting, yet you won't find them on any "Walmart" shelf or even a real gun store shelf because if you could, by now there would have been legislation to ban the round and the gun. So FNH...who until recently was the ONLY maker of brass, I am certain stipulated that all of it's contract ammo loaders hold velocities down. In fact, American Eagle recently shifted from the "pointy" FMJ bullet to one with a ROUNDED nose...can only be for one reason...to PREVENT the round from "being all it can be..." All it PROVED to be in the Ft. Hood shooting.

Interestingly, even the weak factory ammo delivers surprising down range numbers when it comes to trajectory. The SS197SR can be sighted in for 125 yards and be no more than 2" high, dropping to about 2.5" low at 150, and about 12" low at 200 yards! Thanks to it's .200 BC the round is still carrying ample "killing power" at range and of course it GETS THERE much faster than any 9mm slug. Belaboring the point, if that same bullet is pushed around 1,900 fps - well within safe load range, the trajectory flattens out even more.

As for all the tripe attempting to demean the round by comparing it's ballistics from a 4.75" barrel to those of a .22 Magnum from a 20" barrel...well, clearly this is biased and deserves no response. Suffice it say, the chronograph doesn't lie and there is ample visual evidence to prove what is fact versus what is "opinion."

So, those who never let a single fact get in the way of their own good opinion, will NEVER acknowledge the 5.7 as legitimate...just as a huge swath of the media and public will NEVER accept Donald Trump as "legitimate!"

As for the FiveseveN pistol...again, it reminds me of the derision heaped upon the M16 40 years ago....how it felt plastic and cheap, and fired a cartridge that wouldn't stop an ant, yet clearly RUSSIA thought differently when they designed the 5.45x39 after seeing what the 5.56 did in Vietnam...facts versus fiction. The 5-7 pistol was a "clean sheet" design...clearly they didn't put the safety above the trigger where the TRIGGER FINGER can index to it because they are stupid and no nothing about gun design. I find it amazing to read all the praised HEAPED upon all things "FN" by so many "experts" until the FiveseveN comes up...yet, it is indeed a well-made, well-designed, well-thought-out design with surprisingly good ergonomics. It feels "plasticky" because it of course IS "plastic" to use such jargon. The STEEL slide has a polymer cover that provides excellent protection under a variety of conditions. All the internal parts that need to be are of typically high-grade FN quality and STEEL construction...such as the hammer, firing pin, springs, trigger, pins, cam lock, slide rails, magazine release, etc. Any derision heaped upon the FiveseveN applies EQUALLY to every other brand and model of polymer framed pistol.

So why isn't the FiveseveN more "popular?" Same reason Donald Trump isn't "more popular...." Within the right circles, President Trump is WILDLY popular, yet outside of that, he is reviled. Same goes for the FiveseveN. Those who "get it" love it, those who don't will say anything to discredit it. Statements such as, "...there are no examples of how the 5.7x28 round will perform...." KNOWING that there is one HUGE example that gives us literally "years" of "normal time" proof of EXACTLY how it DID PERFORM! The Aurora, CO shooter only killed 12 with an AR-15! How many people will volunteer to run down range and soak one of those up to "prove" it lacks effectiveness???? I issue the same "challenge" to any sane human about the 5.7x28. Anyone who thinks it's a piddling, over-rated "22" please step-up and sign your waiver of liability, then submit yourself for "body part" testing to "prove" the round is so weak as to be shrugged off by any "real man!"

As for cost....I don't mind at all pointing out that SIG has plenty of models than cost MORE than the FiveseveN, as does H&K! So to does COLT, and S&W, and KIMBER....oh, and all those ridiculous, "custom" 1911's that people mortgage their house for!

ALL the 5.7x28 needs is for someone like Starline to start making brass for it, and someone like Underwoodammo to add it to their line up... This is what really resurrected the 10mm from the ash-heap....the factories had down-loaded the round to pointless, and the custom makers such as Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Corbon, and more recently Sig, and"Ted Nugent's" line started filling the DEMAND that eventually fueled an entirely new generation of 10mm models. It would also be "nice" to see another company build a pistol comparable to the FiveseveN in terms of weight and practical utility. The Excel Arms model is big and heavy, as is the MPA version....but hey, at least they're in the fight so to speak. The FiveseveN or something "like it" in a "long slide" with a 7-8" barrel would be pretty sweet and would really ramp up even the anemic factory loads....and of course all the performance loads would be that much better!

I realize not everyone wants to buy a gun that fires a cartridge that MUST be hand loaded to gain best performance, and for those people there are a few companies out there providing the "real 5.7" ammo, but it's pricey due to low volumes. But having said all that, even the current, OTC ammo is extremely effective! The SS198LF 28 grain is probably the premiere choice, but make no mistake, even the "lowly" AE5728A round will get the job done.

ADDENDUM:
I have since crafted a "repackaged" American Eagle 40 grain load that chronographs 2,074 fps from the Fiveseven pistol. Well over 400 fps faster than the factory load! 
Also I've crafted a "repackaged" SS198LF round clocking 2,372 fps from the Fiveseven pistol....only about 200 fps "better" than factory, but certainly BETTER!

The tiny .22 bullet impacting at such speeds creates devastating "non-linear" wounds that vastly exceed the linear wounds produced by classic, Milspec 9mm and .45 ACP ammo.


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## BigHead (Jul 5, 2015)

NasHouston said:


> Everything I've heard says very powerful, little recoil.
> 
> Is it just cause of the price?
> 
> Is it all just hype?


It isn't that powerful, I think that it has about 250 ME, and a lot of bloviation has been directed its way. Tales of penetration this and penetration that, which is crap.
And it is an expensive gun to buy and shoot. That is my thinking on it. Jeez, I can get a Beretta at a reasonable price and load it with Cor Bon. It would be a lot better gun and load.


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

Illyia said:


> The FiveseveN is a gun people either "get" or they don't. It's as polarizing as Donald Trump. Those that love it, sleep with it, and obsess about it's performance. Those who don't, never miss an opportunity to demean it even when they have absolutely no firsthand experience with it...welcome to internet where EVERYONE is an "expert."


Even with all the crazy over-CAPITALIZATION and various other forms of emphasis, I got through it, and I think you're completely wrong. I don't think the FiveseveN is in the least polarizing. I can't imagine losing sleep or obsessing at all about its performance or the lack of it. Moreover, I don't see some mass of gun owners taking the opportunity to demean it. I don't see folks who claim experience with that gun or the ammo. There are no EVERYONE is an "expert" I've seen with regards to the FiveseveN. You're out there hollering into an empty void. I think the truth of the matter is most of us don't care one way or another about this handgun nor the ammunition. As someone else said, it answers questions nobody asked. So in truth, I'm really wondering why you seem so butt hurt about the lack of popularity. It's likely to go extinct shortly and be less than a small footnote in the annals of handgun history. It's not that we don't like the gun or caliber. It's that most generally don't care.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Craigh said:


> Even with all the crazy over-CAPITALIZATION and various other forms of emphasis, I got through it, and I think you're completely wrong. I don't think the FiveseveN is in the least polarizing. I can't imagine losing sleep or obsessing at all about its performance or the lack of it. Moreover, I don't see some mass of gun owners taking the opportunity to demean it. I don't see folks who claim experience with that gun or the ammo. There are no EVERYONE is an "expert" I've seen with regards to the FiveseveN. You're out there hollering into an empty void. I think the truth of the matter is most of us don't care one way or another about this handgun nor the ammunition. As someone else said, it answers questions nobody asked. So in truth, I'm really wondering why you seem so butt hurt about the lack of popularity. It's likely to go extinct shortly and be less than a small footnote in the annals of handgun history. It's not that we don't like the gun or caliber. It's that most generally don't care.


I think you've got it right. Good job!


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## Morgo (Dec 6, 2010)

Its a big gun, the ammo is harder to find more expensive and difficult to reload. Its also not overly cheap.


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## Groundhog34 (Mar 20, 2015)

Desertman says it all. I have never seem the ammo for sale anywhere other than large gun shops and the pistol is hard to find and very expensive. 
Or in a one word answer the answer is the answer that is always the answer when you don't know the answer: MONEY.


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## Illyia (Jan 12, 2017)

Craigh said:


> Even with all the crazy over-CAPITALIZATION and various other forms of emphasis, I got through it, and I think you're completely wrong. I don't think the FiveseveN is in the least polarizing. I can't imagine losing sleep or obsessing at all about its performance or the lack of it. Moreover, I don't see some mass of gun owners taking the opportunity to demean it. I don't see folks who claim experience with that gun or the ammo. There are no EVERYONE is an "expert" I've seen with regards to the FiveseveN. You're out there hollering into an empty void. I think the truth of the matter is most of us don't care one way or another about this handgun nor the ammunition. As someone else said, it answers questions nobody asked. So in truth, I'm really wondering why you seem so butt hurt about the lack of popularity. It's likely to go extinct shortly and be less than a small footnote in the annals of handgun history. It's not that we don't like the gun or caliber. It's that most generally don't care.


One look at your photo tells me not to bother....another internet expert with no real world experience, but who MUST deliver his "OPINION" regardless...go on granddad!


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## Danoobie (May 31, 2017)

desertman said:


> This article may answer your question.


Not to mention the high-profile sights make this 1.6 pound, fully loaded, full size 
pistol fairly impractical to CC. It's a range toy, with a high price tag, and
expensive ammo, in the eyes of most shooters.

If you want to CC this pistol, first you have to modify the sights, so they are low 
profile. Then you have to find a holster which will fit.

As a Five seveN owner, if you go to the trouble to make it work for you,
you'll appreciate it's light weight, as a full-size CC. It's a full pound less 
than an M9.


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## Mikhail (May 9, 2017)

Nice arguments on both sides. Made me curious so i did a quick search on 5.7mm ammo. First site i hit had 3 different loads by two different manufacturers priced from 0.48 -0.62 cents per round. The 0.48 ammo was 500 rounds for $240.00. Sure thats roughly twice what .40 cal bullets cost but its not astronomical. Also saw one of the FN 5.7s with a buy now price of $1250.00 and that is pretty well equal to many other pistols all ready on the market by many different manufacturers. So with reloading you could shoot it cheaper and more effectively so i dont get whats not to like about it other than its hard to find ammo in my local stores. Well it could get a bit more popular like the .357 sig did but never popular enough for everyone to start building pistols and ammo for it. Id like to shoot one of these so i could see for myself just how accurate it is and if that low recoil is really like its said to be. I have to admit this round sounds like it would be fun to shoot.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

Ammo is expensive?????


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## Danoobie (May 31, 2017)

Craigh said:


> It's likely to go extinct shortly and be less than a small footnote in the annals of handgun history. It's not that we don't like the gun or caliber. It's that most generally don't care.


Well, I have to disagree with you, there. Granted, short of it's price dropping considerably, it will probably never be 
popular with the average shooter, but, IMO, the PS90 and Five seveN give armed forces a very light, very handy
system with two guns which share efficient ammo which is effective, and easy to control. It's the perfect companion to
Artillery, or tech-ops personnel who need defensive firearms, much like the M1 carbine, back in it's day. They're
made by FN, not some fly-by-night manufacturer. These are the guys who brought us the NATO Hi Power, 
and the FN-49, to mention only a couple of their highly effective, and still-used military firearms.

"Ammo is expensive????" -Yes, Blackhawkman, I feel it's expensive, at 30$ for a 50 round box. That's two to three
times as much for 9mm, or 45ACP, depending on what and where you buy. I don't do a lot of plinking with my 
FNs, I save them for the purpose for which they were intended, more due to ammo cost, than any other reason.


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## Pandaz3 (Aug 23, 2018)

My Daughter-in-law has one and she loves it. She likes the no recoil, great accuracy, They don't like the ammo cost and practice with it twice a year, and she shoots a Shield 380EZ more regularly. The Gun was really over three times the price of a XD, but it is for her and home protection. He has his Service G-17 9 MM and S&W 642 38., and long guns.
I have a Kel-Tek PMR-30 that is close enough and way cheaper. Ammo cost is high, but not outrageous like the 5.7
I and my son are not re-loaders.


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## .32auto (Jan 20, 2018)

Simply put, I love my 5.7. Little recoil, accurate, easy to shoot. Fun. Also, I have gotten my ammo on line for about $20.00 per 50 (and that includes shipping) which what 9mm was going for during the ammo "crisis" 2 years ago. 
Good gun for Zombies as can make the head shot easy.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Pandaz3 said:


> My Daughter-in-law has one and she loves it. She likes the no recoil, great accuracy, They don't like the ammo cost and practice with it twice a year, and she shoots a Shield 380EZ more regularly. The Gun was really over three times the price of a XD, but it is for her and home protection. He has his Service G-17 9 MM and S&W 642 38., and long guns.
> I have a Kel-Tek PMR-30 that is close enough and way cheaper. Ammo cost is high, but not outrageous like the 5.7
> I and my son are not re-loaders.


The round of the Keltec does not perform the same as the 5.7 round. I have a PS90 that I love. I would prefer the 5.7 round


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Craigh said:


> Even with all the crazy over-CAPITALIZATION and various other forms of emphasis, I got through it, and I think you're completely wrong. I don't think the FiveseveN is in the least polarizing. I can't imagine losing sleep or obsessing at all about its performance or the lack of it. Moreover, I don't see some mass of gun owners taking the opportunity to demean it. I don't see folks who claim experience with that gun or the ammo. There are no EVERYONE is an "expert" I've seen with regards to the FiveseveN. You're out there hollering into an empty void. I think the truth of the matter is most of us don't care one way or another about this handgun nor the ammunition. As someone else said, it answers questions nobody asked. So in truth, I'm really wondering why you seem so butt hurt about the lack of popularity. It's likely to go extinct shortly and be less than a small footnote in the annals of handgun history. It's not that we don't like the gun or caliber. It's that most generally don't care.


I know that this is an old thread, but that other guy IS right about the round being polarizing among people. I am on just about every gun forum there is... It may not happen here, but for years I have seen countless arguments on countless threads on many gun forums. I do not even jump into those threads anymore because they always end the same .. usually nastily and with eventual insults being traded.

I will admit that the people who repeatedly dog the round are usually people who have never even fired the round before. I have seen enough tests to be satisfied with the round thru the carbine.


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## Pandaz3 (Aug 23, 2018)

Shipwreck said:


> The round of the Keltec does not perform the same as the 5.7 round. I have a PS90 that I love. I would prefer the 5.7 round


 I too would prefer a centerfire to a rimfire, you can find 22 Magnum on shelves though, but I had to order the Gold Dots online (Unfortunately they will go to my revolvers or Henry as the large mouth hollow points don't feed well in the PMR-30) My son lives in a more gun friendly area that seems to have everything on shelves. Funwise I can live with my PMR and be envious of her 5.7.

My PMR was bought with the survival and fun mindset, hers is primarily Home Defense.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Pandaz3 said:


> I too would prefer a centerfire to a rimfire, you can find 22 Magnum on shelves though, but I had to order the Gold Dots online (Unfortunately they will go to my revolvers or Henry as the large mouth hollow points don't feed well in the PMR-30) My son lives in a more gun friendly area that seems to have everything on shelves. Funwise I can live with my PMR and be envious of her 5.7.
> 
> My PMR was bought with the survival and fun mindset, hers is primarily Home Defense.


Actually, I would not want to be on the receiving end of your PMR-30, and 30 rounds of .22 Mag.


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