# First gun buy, and my intentions. Questions..



## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey all I'll try and keep this as short as possible. I turn twenty one next week and I plan on buying a s&w sheild9mm for protection purposes and for target shooting and messing around when I'm in the country. I have many questions of which I need 100% true answers please. 
First off I am a college student and do not live in the best neighborhood any more so I'd like to have a gun incase I'm put in a situation in which I need to protect myself. Example: last night my roommate was out side smoking a cigarette and these black guys slowly pulled up to the stop sign and pointed a pistol at him and dry fired it at his face, now in that situation would I have been legally allowed to shoot at him? He was pointing a firearm at him and if I had been outside I would have felt my life was in danger and also would like to suppress the ignorant fool with a few hollow points. I live in Florida by the way. I also plan on gettin my concealed weapons license to go a long with my new pistol.
We have a mossburg 88 12g in the house but I would feel more comfortable with a pistol. I can also bring the pistol with me. Do you think under my circumstances I should get one? And what situations will it be legal for me to shoot at someone? I feel like the gun laws are a little twisted as far as when you can and can't shoot someone.. Please give me some advice thank you.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes,that is definately justified in defending yourself whether the gun was loaded or if it was even a toy gun that you couldn't tell.The only problem is without a licence to carry you can't be off your property and appartment complexs don't encompass the property.Get you're license,you live in a sheethole.The packet comes with Chapter 790 that has the firearm and carry laws,so read the whole thing and go to Florida Concealed Carry Forum ,great place.There are people there involved in the political process and law that know what's what and can clarify any questions you have,legal jargon can get quite confusing.There's enough info there now to search that would keep you buisy for days reading and learning.Good luck and stay safe.

Oh,your buddy should have called in the plate number,these guys are going to be getting 3 hots and a cot if someone doesn't wake these guys up or put them to sleep for good.The latter is better because it frees up food and oxygen for those that deserve it,and I'm sick of supporting scumbags and lazyasses on welfare.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

If you want 100% true answers, here you go...........first, "messing" around in the country will get you or someone else killed...second, you should really go take some type of course, so you know what to do, in case some " white guys" do the same thing......."suppressing the ignorant fool with some hollowpoints", will probably also get you killed. You really need to rethink your attitude, before you start carrying a firearm around. People like you scare the hell out of me, and just give the liberal society, more ammunition against firearms in general. I read a previous answer, and had to laugh......most likely, these "guys" were in a stolen car, or were using bogus plates, or a number of things that they do. Some people are so naive...... taking pot shots at someone, will likely have them come back, with more firepower, because that's how they operate...it's always best not to shoot, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Carrying a firearm is a responsibilty, not to be taken lightly, especially by "cowboys".


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

berettabone said:


> If you want 100% true answers, here you go...........first, "messing" around in the country will get you or someone else killed...second, you should really go take some type of course, so you know what to do, in case some " white guys" do the same thing......."suppressing the ignorant fool with some hollowpoints", will probably also get you killed. You really need to rethink your attitude, before you start carrying a firearm around. People like you scare the hell out of me, and just give the liberal society, more ammunition against firearms in general. I read a previous answer, and had to laugh......most likely, these "guys" were in a stolen car, or were using bogus plates, or a number of things that they do. Some people are so naive...... taking pot shots at someone, will likely have them come back, with more firepower, because that's how they operate...it's always best not to shoot, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Carrying a firearm is a responsibilty, not to be taken lightly, especially by "cowboys".


You don't think I've thought about those situations? Of course they may come back with more guns, who's to say I don't shoot rat shot at them and just scare them? Also I moved here from a small Georgia town, "messing" around in the country is shooting small game, targets, and pests so uhhh where's the danger in that? 
If someone pointed a gun at you and shot a faulty round at your face you wouldn't return fire?


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Exactly what I am talking about......shooting rat shot at them, yeah, that will scare them.......apparently, living in a small town has made you a bit naive about what happens in a larger city...........yes, if someone stuck a firearm in my face, I would not hesitate to shoot them......if you are going to shoot, shoot...what the hell is rat shot going to do. This is why you need to take some type of training course. Your way of thinking is going to get you dead. People in larger cities usually don't go shooting around, unless they own a large chunk of property. Your assuming that it was a faulty round....half these clowns can't even afford bullets...the firearm could have been empty, not that it would matter in a self defense situation. Get some training, change your attitude a bit, and it might help save your a$$.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Maybe, this will help answer part of your topic.......I do not know Florida's laws, but I do know my state's laws, and I believe that FL's are a litlle less prohibitive........If I was at a stop sign, on a city st., and someone in a vehicle pointed a firearm at me, and I shot them, it would most likely be justified, and I say most likely, because these things are aways complicated in court, and sometimes, you actually do not know which way the pendelum will swing..but most likely, if you had a CCW, if you don't, that really complicates things, not in your favor......if I were to be on my porch, and someone from the street, pointed a firearm at me, and I shot...that's a different situation, because, immediately, a lawyer is going to ask, well, why didn't you just run into the house. I might just go to jail, even though I have the right to protect myself, no matter where I am. If I run into the house, retrieve a firearm, come back out,and start shooting, I am most likely going to jail. An attorney, representing a person that was alive or dead, is going to say, my client did point the weapon, but it was empty..he was just trying to scare someone, and now he's deceased. There are many scenario's that can occur, and no one can really predict how they will turn out. Bottom line...you can have a CCW, you can be your city or towns best citizen, but if you ever have to use a firearm is self defense, it will be a BPITA for everyone concerned. I can speak for most..carrying a firearm around, can cause you a world of trouble, legally or otherwise. Whether shooting is justified or not.


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

I am not naive. And I am from west palm beach, then lived in raliegh nc, then for a short period I lived in a small town of which my parents still live. Two rounds of rat shot followed by 6 shots of hollow points seems good to me, because it gives the criminal a non lethal opportunity to flee the danger, if he does not then he's going to get the hollowpoint rounds and regret what he did. Also, retreating into your house when the door is 10-20 feet away will get you killed, so returning fire is the only option unless you would like to risk getting killed and putting your gun ownership rights to waste. Also I'm sure there was no bullets in that gun and I'm sure they were just messing around but think of it this way, if he pulled that gun on a police officer do you think the police officer would have shot him? YES. and that's my point.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

I understand your point..................... there are many things that college can teach you, but there are two that they can't....intelligence and common sense. I wish you luck in your pursuits....I can tell that you'll need it.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

How did _FiveHourFrenzy _get back in here? :smt017



Fla904 said:


> &#8230; now in that situation would I have been legally allowed *to shoot at him*? He was pointing a firearm at him and if I had been outside I would have felt my life was in danger and also would *like to suppress the ignorant fool with a few hollow points.*
> 
> And what situations will it be legal for me to *shoot at someone?* I feel like the gun laws are a little twisted as far as *when you can and can't shoot someone*..


Wow!



Fla904 said:


> Please give me some advice thank you.


Stay away from firearms until your attitude changes. Wanting to protect yourself is one thing, but your posts reek of someone just itching for a shootout. You're going to get yourself and others hurt with your current views on firearm ownership. Owning a handgun does not automatically make someone Jack Bauer.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Todd said:


> ...Stay away from firearms until your attitude changes. Wanting to protect yourself is one thing, but your posts reek of someone just itching for a shootout. You're going to get yourself and others hurt with your current views on firearm ownership. Owning a handgun does not automatically make someone Jack Bauer.


This is really good advice!
Take heed.


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't want to shoot someone. But if someone is being a idiot and threatening my life and my property then yes I will shoot them, as the law states I can.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Fla904 said:


> If someone is being a idiot and threatening my life and my property then yes I will shoot them, as the law states I can.


Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Good luck to you &#8230; and the innocent bystanders.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Todd said:


> Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
> 
> Good luck to you &#8230; and the innocent bystanders.


Exactly,slow down man.The firearm is the last option-period.

Here's an example for FL:

A car passes you and pulls in close,then the light turns red and you both stop.He gets out ranting you cut him off and almost hit him earlier,he's gonna woop your butt and smacks the fender before getting to the window.Pow,right in the jaw.

How would you handle this situation and if you needed to shoot when do you?


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## Texican89 (Sep 30, 2012)

rex said:


> Exactly,slow down man.The firearm is the last option-period.
> 
> Here's an example for FL:
> 
> ...


My wifes friend was killed last month after an incident like you described I'll post a link soon.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Holy crap man,sorry about your loss.Damn that's sad.I hope Fla904 answers that so I can get an idea of what he needs to understand the moral and legal responsibilities involved in carrying.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Remember what you wrote initially, in your first response..........like the last paragraph...............could be a distinct possiblity, that you might want to go along with fla904 to some training classes, and get your mind right..............when ever you involve race, politics, law, and social programs, into your responses, or your life,.......and add firearms.....well, it's not a good thing...........only, when you can block out even your opinion, and act only on shear self preservation, without prejudices of any kind, will you be the most responsible...legally, morally, effectively, and with less guilt.


rex said:


> Yes,that is definately justified in defending yourself whether the gun was loaded or if it was even a toy gun that you couldn't tell.The only problem is without a licence to carry you can't be off your property and appartment complexs don't encompass the property.Get you're license,you live in a sheethole.The packet comes with Chapter 790 that has the firearm and carry laws,so read the whole thing and go to Florida Concealed Carry Forum ,great place.There are people there involved in the political process and law that know what's what and can clarify any questions you have,legal jargon can get quite confusing.There's enough info there now to search that would keep you buisy for days reading and learning.Good luck and stay safe.
> 
> Oh,your buddy should have called in the plate number,these guys are going to be getting 3 hots and a cot if someone doesn't wake these guys up or put them to sleep for good.The latter is better because it frees up food and oxygen for those that deserve it,and I'm sick of supporting scumbags and lazyasses on welfare.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I just spoke the truth.Don't care what race,religion or political view they were,if those events happened as said you know as well as I do the type of person doing it and a likely outcome.Could be different but not with the info provided.I'm not the only one that feels the same as the last sentance,alot of this country feel the same way about their money being pissed down the drain on BS.

I know how this stuff works,I've carried for a long time and in LE for close to a decade.You use all sorts of tools in life,you have to know how to use them,which ones to use,and how to use them properly.I know the answer to the question I asked him,I want to hear how he would handle it to see where he's at.There's different kinds of training,what area he needs is to be determined upon his return-if he does.


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

Considering he doesn't have a fire arm, I would turn on the red, or roll my window up jot down his license plate and call the police. If I happened to be out of the car I would defend my self as well as I could, a fist fight/road rage would never make me want to shoot someone. Now if he got out cursing and in a fit of rage with a pistol waving it around then I would draw my weapon and tell him to get back in the car, if that didn't work I'm shooting him in a non lethal area of the body, but thats the least likely/worst case scenario.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Fla904 said:


> if that didn't work I'm shooting him in a non lethal area of the body, but thats the least likely/worst case scenario.


Sorry, but you've seen too many action movies. If shooting people in "non-lethal" areas of the body was possible, don't you think the police would do that all the time? Sure would cut down on the paperwork and media hoopla; not to mention the psychological issues of dealing with the fact that you are responsible for the death of someone else. You train for COM because that's the shot you have a chance of making when your palms are sweaty, your adrenaline is flowing, your fine motor control is failing, and you have tunnel vision. You try your fancy Hollywood "I'm going to only wound him" shot, you are going to miss. Not might miss, YOU WILL MISS. And you've potentially shot an innocent bystander. Not to mention you are now engaged hand-to-hand with your assailant who closed the gap between you while you were playing action hero (Google "Tueller drill" if you want to see how fast someone can close in on you) and you're either taking a beating, being stabbed, or getting shot; possibly with your own gun. And I can bet if you're getting shot, you're not being shot in a "non-lethal" area.

Carrying a gun is not a joke. Nor is it cool. You leave the house with a gun, you leave your attitude behind. It takes maturity, responsibility, and training. If you don't have all three, stick to pepper spray and a whistle.


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

My brother is a seal. He's trained for situations like that and has been on countless missions where he's ordered to wound his targets not destroy. I would also like to note when I was 19 I shot at a person stealing my lap top out of my house I armed my self with my 12g (bird shot) and shot him in the a$$, I got in trouble for it but no charges were pressed and I eventually was cleared of all wrong doing. I think I know more about the gun shooting and tactical part than any of you will ever know. I've been on base several times with my brother and got to do the drills with m-16s everytime he's home we go and shoot. So yes smart a$$ I could easily shoot him in the shoulder/lower torso and disengage him. Also like I said preveously I will have a few rounds of ray shot before my main rounds.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Fla904 said:


> I think I know more about the gun shooting and tactical part than any of you will ever know.



Well then, I will bow out of this thread.

Frankly, with all your years of expertise, tactical knowledge, and shooting people, I'm shocked that you even had to come here and ask us advise. At the least, I would think your brother, "the SEAL", would know the answers to your questions as to when you can shoot people legally.

I'll be anxiously awaiting more threads from you imparting your vast knowledge on all of us poor inexperienced souls.


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

I didn't say you were poorly educated. And yes I know a lot about HOW to shoot guns. Do I need to learn more about the laws regarding discharging and concealing a handgun in Florida? Yes. And that is precisely why I am on here. Unfourtnently my brother doesn't live here anymore and is currently in sipan. I'm not here to be a smart a$$ and I don't want to be treated like one. I simply wanted some honest answers to situations I could be put in an if I could react legally to those situations.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

You did better than I thought from reading previous posts.Todd is 100% right on 2 levels.1st is you will be crucified in court,you were not in fear of your life because you purposely only wounded him,and that's no fight ender.Second,you probably will miss,I don't care how good you are.I shoot under simulated stress,it isn't the same as a real life and death addrenalin dump.If you've never been there you don't know and this is nothing like what your brother does in the military,whole different world.

This is the way it should play out basically.When he gets out the windows go up and the doors lock,or the window is cracked for voice if you record it on a phone.Leaving and turning depends if you left an escape route,whether it's backing up or going to either side,the right lane isn't always available,and alot of people never leave themselves room and get boxed in.If you're stuck there,I'd be telling him I'm sorry (for ?) and I don't want trouble but I'd have my piece in hand by now.If he had a brain he'd notice I wasn't moving as normal sheeple do.Most are blowhards and back off but some aren't bright.When he's to my car he gets warned the last time of my intentions,if he smacks my hood and leaves it's a win.From there on it's on him,if his hands enter my vehicle I will shoot him,he knows my intentions and willfully entered meaning to do harm.Same as a house,if you enter uninvited the State presumes they intend to comit a crime,you are in your rights to defend yourself.Many a numbnut has learned that here already.

Now,Stand Your Ground is not carte blanche.There is no retreat needed,but there can be a fine line between avoiding a conflict and escalating it.If you got out of your car above,you're at fault.

When you strap on a gun remember this:You aren't Superman,James Bond or a cop,you are now the proverbial Wuss.Avoidance should be first concern any time,but if you find there's no way around it you do everything possible to difuse it.Alot of problems are curbed just by reaching or putting your hand on the gun whether they can see it or not, I'll be bladed to them stepping away.When they are too close for me the gun comes out.The 21ft rule is real,and short.

Slow down,you have the basis but the mindset and attitude is all wrong,forget anything military for now.Go to the site I said and go to sub-forum for scenarios (I can't remember what it's called exactly),they may help you see what we're saying.This all doesn't just go for firearms,it applies to defense if all you have is your hands,and they can be quite deadly if need be.It's a learning process that takes time,getting overzelous can land you in jail or the morgue.

Hope this came out right,I'm 1/2 asleep but can't go down.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Oops


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## Fla904 (Oct 2, 2012)

This was a very good answer and what I was looking for the whole time, thank you. Also one more scenario, what if I am approached by someone who isn't threatening me butvsoon becomes hostile and violent? If I draw my gun to him and tell him to back off and he keeps coming would that give me the rite to shoot him? Say he's much bigger than me and can clearly over power me an take my weapon but he is completely in armed? I dont see any other option other than to shoot that person. That wool be the worst situation; to get your firearm taken and use against you.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...So, the question becomes: What might you have done, to make him become violent?
Normal people don't approach you peacefully, and then, unprovoked, become instantaneously violent.
And crazy people don't normally approach in a completely peaceful manner.

In the case of a premeditated attack, for instance a robbery attempt, it's pretty clear to the watchful person, well in advance, what exactly is happening. Yes, the attacker may approach while seeming peaceful, but his dress, manner, and mode of approach, and the fact that you've seen his buddy circle around to get behind you, are pretty positive tip-offs.
_So a big part of wearing a gun remains fight prediction and avoidance._ Particularly avoidance.
And I wouldn't actually bring my pistol into view until things got really, really obvious. I might take a prepare-to-shoot stance, and grip my weapon in preparation for presentation, all of which would act as a strong warning and deterrent to any serious criminal. But I wouldn't actually present it until there was a proven need to shoot.
And then the shot(s) would come quickly and accurately, and the outcome would be final and definite.
But I still would be well aware that, sooner or later, I would have to clearly articulate to a jury exactly what my fear was, and why I absolutely had to shoot someone to end the attack.

If you do something which provokes his violence, _you are the criminal_, not him.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

Gee, it's pretty obvious, that the training he needs, is between his ears.....since he's a weapons expert........I guess that means, that since my father was a SG in the Army, and I got to shoot his M1 Garand, that makes me an expert too..............and I guess, since my wife taught someone, who is now a Navy Seal, and I shook his hand, that makes me an expert also.............it's a proven fact, that a 20 yr. old brain hasn't quite matured to full capacity, especially in that frontal lobe area, which helps make good and bad decisions. The reason I mentioned race, politics, etc., is because I am glad that your not LE in my town. Walking around with a firearm, pissed off at every minority or social problem recipient makes for trouble. And the more I read, I get the feeling that someone is sitting around dreaming of every scenario possible, which we know is impossible. Plus, a little brother worship, with Rambo mixed in. He's gotten answers, and truth, and he doesn't like it.......expert boy is gonna get dead.


rex said:


> I just spoke the truth.Don't care what race,religion or political view they were,if those events happened as said you know as well as I do the type of person doing it and a likely outcome.Could be different but not with the info provided.I'm not the only one that feels the same as the last sentance,alot of this country feel the same way about their money being pissed down the drain on BS.
> 
> I know how this stuff works,I've carried for a long time and in LE for close to a decade.You use all sorts of tools in life,you have to know how to use them,which ones to use,and how to use them properly.I know the answer to the question I asked him,I want to hear how he would handle it to see where he's at.There's different kinds of training,what area he needs is to be determined upon his return-if he does.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I do believe you missed the underlying jist here,I never undermined anyone's civil or legal rights like present rookies( at least here with the Staties).I'm not a puss and spit it out as it is,sorry if you're afraid or I misconstrued that post.It is what it is,and this country was founded by this train of thought that said F you and this is the way it will be like or see ya.Guess who won then.Unfortunately this political BS is an underlying fight we're in.Carry is gaining ground throughout the country because real people are tired of the shit,it isn't the police or government's job to provide our safety,proven in court,you're on your own and the shitholes are making you a subserviant subject that the propaganda suckers buy and keep buying into this crap because they're too stupid to think for themselves or knbow what the term responsibility means.C'mon,a grand a week on welfare because you've figured out spreading the legs and dropping out another kid will get you 22s and tires on your new Caddy?Oh,need this too for social status.PLEEEZE!!!!

Tell ya what.if I dissappear the Secret Serviced tagged my ass,you may be right.Doubt it,the 1ST still stands unless the socialist gets reelected and really implements the "below the radar" crap.Hope you're not religious because God is sitting back giggling his ass off that we of all people can't remember what freedom is about and what it took to get what we're going to lose.40 years ago I looked at my Grandmother with bewilderment when my Grandfather (ex vet) said we'll be Russia and vice-versa,hmm.Does that mean I need to sell my guns,see a shrink,get signed paperwork,then steal a gun and go on a shooting spree.Sorry man,that's F'd up compared to the previous conversation.I understand if you won't admit to the crap publically,but if you don't agree at all you are not American.Our Founding Fathers had balls,now everyone worries if they're sitting in boxers or briefs,and if you're running commando you're a queer.I want a detail with Kirk,.O"hurrah is hot and I could learn something from Spock.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

BB or anyone else,sorry if I offended you but I take nothing back.Long,bad day,neede a few beers to chill,it spills out as I see it.

PS.They won't sign the papers,really.I think they just want my money?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Friends don't let friends drink beer and write.
C'mon: Gimme the keys from your keyboard.
:anim_lol:


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

WOW...........All I can say, is that you didn't offend me, but I stick to my statements(minus alcohol).....if it makes you feel any better, I won't be voting for our current leader........get some sleep.


rex said:


> I do believe you missed the underlying jist here,I never undermined anyone's civil or legal rights like present rookies( at least here with the Staties).I'm not a puss and spit it out as it is,sorry if you're afraid or I misconstrued that post.It is what it is,and this country was founded by this train of thought that said F you and this is the way it will be like or see ya.Guess who won then.Unfortunately this political BS is an underlying fight we're in.Carry is gaining ground throughout the country because real people are tired of the shit,it isn't the police or government's job to provide our safety,proven in court,you're on your own and the shitholes are making you a subserviant subject that the propaganda suckers buy and keep buying into this crap because they're too stupid to think for themselves or knbow what the term responsibility means.C'mon,a grand a week on welfare because you've figured out spreading the legs and dropping out another kid will get you 22s and tires on your new Caddy?Oh,need this too for social status.PLEEEZE!!!!
> 
> Tell ya what.if I dissappear the Secret Serviced tagged my ass,you may be right.Doubt it,the 1ST still stands unless the socialist gets reelected and really implements the "below the radar" crap.Hope you're not religious because God is sitting back giggling his ass off that we of all people can't remember what freedom is about and what it took to get what we're going to lose.40 years ago I looked at my Grandmother with bewilderment when my Grandfather (ex vet) said we'll be Russia and vice-versa,hmm.Does that mean I need to sell my guns,see a shrink,get signed paperwork,then steal a gun and go on a shooting spree.Sorry man,that's F'd up compared to the previous conversation.I understand if you won't admit to the crap publically,but if you don't agree at all you are not American.Our Founding Fathers had balls,now everyone worries if they're sitting in boxers or briefs,and if you're running commando you're a queer.I want a detail with Kirk,.O"hurrah is hot and I could learn something from Spock.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow,that was out there,I had a larger buzz than I thought.Hope the OP learns what's going on,alot of people don't investigate these laws to find out exactly what they mean and how it applies in different situations.Oh well.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

rex said:


> Hope the OP learns what's going on.


I'm going to say he won't, until it's the hard way and someone is injured or dead. I have a feeling that, like a lot of people who get answers they do not like, instead of reassessing his way of thinking, he will just keep searching until he finds a place that agrees with his ideas of "self defense" and tells him it's OK to suppress ignorant fools with hollow points and shoot people with rat shot to scare them. Remember, he knows more about shooting and tactics than we will ever know. :smt033


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Popcornsmilie

Well that was an entertaining read...


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