# For what applications is the Taurus 45/410 combination?



## nuc (Jan 19, 2011)

Good for mtn. gun (protection vs. bear/cougar) or just a snake and people gun?


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

*Good for nothing.*

From what I have read it's not really "good" for anything.


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## stonefly (Jan 28, 2011)

From my experience with it, it suffers from being the mixture of two things. This means its good at neither. The one thing it is good at is looking scary. Its a good intimidation piece like the desert eagle.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

stonefly said:


> ...Its a good intimidation piece like the desert eagle.


Hmmm... Do you mean to tell *nuc* that the Judge would intimidate a cougar? 

If you used a Taurus Judge on an attacking animal, *nuc*, it probably would only make the animal that much angrier at you.
The Judge is a gimmick. It does nothing well...other than separating you from your money, of course.


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## DanP_from_AZ (May 8, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hmmm... Do you mean to tell *nuc* that the Judge would intimidate a cougar?  . . .


I'm with Steve. :smt1099

As I've posted before, black or stainless hanguns in your hand don't compute in animal minds as a threat.
Years ago an empty .44 Mag was found in a grizzly's stomach after it was dispatched by trackers for
"activities unbecoming a bear". The .44 owner was in sad shape. As in dead, mangled, and partially eaten.

This and lots of other reported "incidents" have made me carry "enough gun".
Even though we have no grizzlies. just Blacks and lions, my trail gun is a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull.
The next step up is an S&W in either .460 or .500. I'm standing pat. .:mrgreen:

P.S.
I think that the Judge concept is pretty much marketing hype. Which is working. Great TV ads.
The "speciality" .410 shells with the pellets AND discs do a decent job. On watermelons.
I have guns that shoot .45 Long Colt. A great cartridge in 1873. About the same as 1911 .45 ACP.
All three are fine for humans. None is a bear cartridge. Even on Black bears. But all are better than pepper spray.


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

Make mine a LeMat!
The Judge puts me in the mind of the Civil War LeMat. Today's reproduction from Italy fires 9 rounds of .44 ball and a single blast of 20 gauge buck. TEN ROUNDS WITHOUT A RELOAD! 
LeMat Revolver, Pistols, Black Powder, Shooting : Cabelas.com

But seriously folks, [email protected] now has the Governor, mights well get that one if you gotta have one, taurus quality is too iffy for me.
Myself, I'll take the LeMat over either one of those!
Eli :smt1099


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

Governor, just what the world needed. :smt009











> The Smith & Wesson Governor revolver puts six rounds of customizable response under your control. Load with .410 2 1/2" shotshells, .45 ACP or .45 Colt


Good grief. :anim_lol:


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

Couch Potato said:


> Governor, just what the world needed. :smt009
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Methinks Mssrs. Smith @ Wesson 'ave gone bloody mad!!!
:anim_lol:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

"Um, Governor, could I have a reprieve?"
"Certainly not!"
BANG!
"Interesting—That didn't hurt very much. Now it's my turn."
"Um, Mr. BG, may I have a reprieve..."


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I wish somebody would hurry up and develop a .45 ACP shot cartridge that will cycle in any semi-auto, so we could lay the Judge issue to rest. :smt082


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

Assassins would love this weapon. With the shot shells: no ballistics and no spent shells. You'd have the CSI boys scratching their heads.

Other than that, I don't see much advantage to it. The fire power/size is equalled with a .40 caliber Glock and the Glock has more rounds and quicker reloads.


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of the Judge.

I owned one and it just sat around after the initial range visit.

It's not a range gun.

It's not the best night table gun.

For me it wasn't the best of anything ... so I sold it.:mrgreen:

Lot's of people wanted to buy it from me.:smt082

So at least it was easy to get rid of.

:smt1099


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## stonefly (Jan 28, 2011)

took me a while to come back through... meant that the judge intimidates the crap out of people. wouldnt do jack for a wild animal


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Packard said:


> Assassins would love this weapon...


Um, no, I think that assassins' *victims* would love it more, since it will do relatively little serious damage at any reasonable distance.
Close-up into the face is another story...


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Um, no, I think that assassins' *victims* would love it more, since it will do relatively little serious damage at any reasonable distance.
> Close-up into the face is another story...


While I have no affection for the Judge I will say that ultimately once the projectile(s) are launched, it doesn't make much difference what platform it was launched from. So a .45LC or a .410 applied to the base of the victims skull would no doubt be "effective" for our fantasy hit man. However, until they come out with a sound suppression device (preferably about 12 inches long :smt082), I doubt they will be on the hit man's top 10 faves list. By the way Steve, do you have any opinions on the [email protected] Governor, you know, its kinda like a Judge DeLuxe! :anim_lol:
Eli :smt083


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

EliWolfe said:


> ...Steve, do you have any opinions on the [email protected] Governor, you know, its kinda like a Judge DeLuxe! :anim_lol:
> Eli :smt083


Oh, come on, Eli-the Governor is made by S&W, and it's Scandium, so you know that it's gotta be better than the Judge.
After all, doesn't that Scandium stuff make the gun's bullets super-accurate?


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

Have any of you ever even tried out the Judge?With *Federal handgun 000 Buckshot*?
Until you own one and use the "right" ammo in it,well let's just say give me the Judge
with 000 Buckshot and the bad guy is in a world of trouble if in my house.Put the right ammo
in it and it's awesome.I have shot the Judge many times and I cannot tell you the pattern it holds and the damage it can do.Federal handgun 000 Buckshot and Remington Long Range #6's.
Good patterns.Awesome gun.


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## EliWolfe (Nov 20, 2010)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Oh, come on, Eli-the Governor is made by S&W, and it's Scandium, so you know that it's gotta be better than the Judge.
> After all, doesn't that Scandium stuff make the gun's bullets super-accurate?


Yes Steve, the Scandium stuff (which they also make skis out of in Scandinavia) is actually worth every extra dollar and the Governor will reliably shoot half inch groups at 25 yards off hand. No, really, I know a guy...he's a part time hit man. 
Eli 
Can't wait to see the Judge vs. the Governor articles in the gunzines, or maybe I can :mrgreen:


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

bayhawk2 said:


> Have any of you ever even tried out the Judge?With *Federal handgun 000 Buckshot*?...


I really don't want to come across as a snob, and, no, I have never fired any Judge, with any load, ever.
Nevertheless, my personal experience and a little research brings up the following, somewhat discouraging, facts:
• The Federal Handgun Buckshot load is four (4) 000 pellets. Each pellet is 0.36" in diameter, and weighs 70 grains. The stated _muzzle_ velocity of the load is 850fps, which means that, by the time the shot impacts the BG, it'll be going somewhat slower.
• Four 70-grain pellets equals 280 grains total "throw weight," but all four pellets will not hit all in the same place, so one cannot compare their effect to a single bullet from a .45 ACP or .45 "Long" Colt cartridge. One still has to look at each pellet's performance individually.
• One 70-grain pellet travelling at a mv of 850fps might impact at somewhere around 700fps. That compares to .32 ACP, but at slower impact speed. (The nearest .32 ACP round uses a 71-grain RN bullet going out at 905fps, yielding 129 foot-pounds of energy _at the muzzle_.)
• I would expect that each 000 pellet might deliver as much as 70 foot-pounds of energy, or very slightly more. _That seems to me to be insufficient for meaningful penetration_, and it is penetration that does the job. Your bullets must penetrate to reach a vital area, and then they must stop there and deliver all of their momentum. Otherwise, the fight will not be stopped.
• Even at close range, the Judge delivers a pretty open pattern. Your hits will be wide-spaced. Maybe one of them will hit in an effective location, if you're lucky. But that hit will be pretty ineffective because it will not be a good penetrator.
• Therefore, the Judge will not deliver fight-stopping hits. QED


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## bayhawk2 (Sep 25, 2010)

So far everything you have said is hearsay.I have the gun.I have shot it.Many times over.
My group of those (4 )-000 buckshot at 8 yards is just one big ugly hole.Not 4 holes all
over the place as you state.Not until 10 yards does it show the 4 shot pattern.About
the size of a grapefruit-maybe smaller.Mine is the 6 1/2 inch barrel,which may be 
a part of the good groups.I have heard of good groups coming from the short 
barrels also.As far as penetration?The penetration is through 3- 1 gallon jugs of
water at 8 yards.That's with a derringer .410-000 buckshot that held a group all the way through
those jugs at about the size of a tennis ball.Proof.Not hearsay.I don't think you are coming off as a snob.More like you think it should be the way you read it somewhere,and by over analyizing
on what you "think" it should be.Enough said.I know what the gun will do.Maybe you would too if you ever really shot one.














m


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

_Chacun à son gôut._
I sincerely hope that your Judge, and the Federal loads you have for it, provide you with all of the performance you may require.
And I hope, as I do for everyone, that you never have to use it in a fight.


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## walleye (Feb 4, 2011)

From everything I have read, here and elsewhere, I will never own a Taurus. Too many people say they have had trouble both with the gun and the service. Too many to dispute. I am sure there are many happy owners, but the reports are what they are....poor.


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## lthobbes (May 28, 2011)

*I just traded My road bike for a Judge*

I certainly did not pay for the bike what I would have paid for the Judge so I am extremely happy with my trade...

I have read a whole lot of trash talk about the Judge on this forum. However I look at guns like tools in a toolbox. I think this pistol is kind of mission specific...

For example.. I could see it being used very well for taking out snakes if you are walking or 4wheeling through the bush.. (with feild loads of course)

If you accidentally hit a deer or other large animale on the road and needed to put it out of it's misery I think a slug or a .45 long colt would do the job well...

For everyday carry I like my Glock. I would not really want to dispatch a snake or large animal with my Glock... (but I would if I had to)

I am curious though- does anyone know which one would have more velocity- a .410 slug or a .45 long? I'm curious which would be better for large animal destruction.

Thanks for the insight


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Most .45 "Long" Colt loads are superior to .410 slug loads.

The Colt round fires a 250-grain bullet at about 900fps.
The .410 slug load is about 100 grains at about 1,800fps (depending on its maker).


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Kinda thinking out loud here but, if you want a long gun then buy a long gun. If you want a handgun then buy a handgun. If you want both in one gun your choosing a weapon that will outperform nothing and if you're gonna do that at least don't choose the Taurus over the S&W.


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## buckler (May 24, 2011)

anchor for small boat? not really heavy enough to tie the feet of a suitable agent and sink him.


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## ozzy (Apr 16, 2011)

Make up your own mind but I wouldn't own one, I just can't figure out what purpose it serves. Anyhow here's a good video to watch on them . Enjoy.

YouTube - ‪The Judge‬‏


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## ozzy (Apr 16, 2011)

buckler said:


> anchor for small boat? not really heavy enough to tie the feet of a suitable agent and sink him.


 What do you mean by agent? You have issues.


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## GunByte (Jul 16, 2011)

Packard said:


> Assassins would love this weapon. With the shot shells: no ballistics and no spent shells. You'd have the CSI boys scratching their heads.
> 
> Other than that, I don't see much advantage to it. The fire power/size is equalled with a .40 caliber Glock and the Glock has more rounds and quicker reloads.


Gotta love the logic. Another Glock is the perfect weapon and why waste time on anything else post. My last two Glocks jammed out of the box which soured me on Glock Perfection and I no longer own any. There is a place and purpose for all guns. I remember when Glocks first hit the market and they were sneered at as cheap plastic junk that shot a weak 9mm round and would never be accepted by those who understood guns. Heck, it was not too long ago that the .40 was called a solution without a problem by people just like you and now look were we are.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

GunByte said:


> ...My last two Glocks jammed out of the box which soured me on Glock Perfection and I no longer own any...


Frequently when two different samples of a semi-auto pistol malfunction in the hands of the same shooter, it is more likely attributable to the user's technique, than it is to the pistols' mechanics.
Are you absolutely certain that the problem was that of the Glocks?


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## sonja (Sep 16, 2011)

One thing we are sure the judge excels at is pumping up the bottom line for Taurus.

As far as Glock goes -- I happen to own a few -- once took an old friend shooting. He was an experienced pistol shooter - but used techniques from 40 years ago. He wanted to try my Glock 17. It failed to eject, or failed to load with EVERY shot. I explained all about "Glock Wristing" -- he took umbrage, asking if I - a mere woman - was telling HIM, an "experienced shooter", how to shoot?

Of course, I wanted to enjoy my time at the range -- backed off -- and allowed him to believe the Glock is a nasty, useless gun. The fact I shot magazine after magazine without any issues did not seem to sway him. It was an interesting experience.

After that, whenever he came to town for a visit -- we never took him shooting again -- nor would we.


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## DickO (Sep 27, 2012)

For what it's worth... I purchased a Judge a little over a year ago after talking to one of the fellas working in the firearms section of an army PX. Told him I was wanting something for house protection but didn't want to be shooting thru the walls either (I have a long modular with bedrooms lined up). He suggested the Judge and I thought (and yes I'm a newbie handgun user) that it sounded like a reasonable tradeoff.

I bought the gun and some home defense 410's(Winchester Elite PDX1) and some .45 long colt's(Winchester Super X 255gr Lead round nose). Waited till my more knowldegeable "kids" showed up for a holiday and brought in their "arsenals" and then did some shooting with it. For me, the Judge is truly a handful (or two, depending); the jolt I initially experienced wasn't as bad as I thought it might be, even in my short stubby-fingered hand, but it was powerful. I shot mainly just to get use to the gun. 

Later on, using home-made targets on several ocassions, I've found the the Judge is at least reasonably accurate. Firing from approximately 15 to 20 yards at a 2x2 target with the 410's I could hit the target each time with at least the pellets being closer to center than away. Same with the 45's. Not scientific but served to let me know that should suffice in the house. My main complaint with the Judge is that the recoil "bites" my RH(gunhand) middle finger just above the middle nuckle with the rear of the trigger guard. Haven't found a solution to that yet... 

I've since read many articles on this gun, some 'good' and some 'very bad'. Maybe ignorance was bliss in my case? At any rate, I have changed the loading of the gun to one
.410 shell to be followed by four .45's as was suggested in one of the articles. Although I really fail to see how anyone (no matter their size and fortitude) could endure 5 of the .410's, if I were to use them. Hopefully I'll never have to find out one way or the other.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...Then, what's the one .410 load for?

If you intend to follow-up with four rounds of .45 LC, why not just shoot five rounds of .45 LC?
And if you decide to do that, then why use the Judge? Any .45 LC or .45 ACP revolver would be more accurate and less clumsy.


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## DickO (Sep 27, 2012)

I've heard from all kinds of "experts" on this site and others and have discerned that the idea is to have the first shot scattered just a bit to at least to deter someone from going any further (if not putting them down initially). The next four would be for finishing whatever it was that got started. I tend to be the optimist and hope that the first blast would be the end of it all. I know, there are some macho pro football tackle sized villians out there whom the .410 might not phase. But for the most part, a person isn't going to enjoy getting hit by it from 10 to 15 feet away (and it's my guess they'll be hurt bad enough to quit). And if it's one of those types that takes the time to get ticked off about it, that'll be time enough for the next four. 

Now, I know I'm not an expert weapons handler, or a crack shot, or combat trained like a lot of the folks around here but I am at least proficient the one handgun I do have, and can point it straight enough to hit someone 15 to 20 feet away from me (and no, I don't have 10,000 rounds on target to prove anything). Yes, I know there are all kinds of extenuating circumstances... but I'm naive enough to make an educated guess that a thief in my house is going to be a tad bit more nervous than I am and that will give me at least some semblance of an advantage in the situation. I'm not 100% sure... I haven't had to shoot anyone yet... in any situation. Would be nice to hear from all those who "have" had to fend off a home invader and what their actions and reactions were.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

DickO said:


> ...[T]he idea is to have the first shot scattered just a bit to at least to deter someone from going any further...


I strongly suggest that you re-think your strategy.
If you really need to shoot someone, it is not as a deterrent. It is to quickly end the fight before you get hurt, or someone about whom you care gets hurt.
If there is no need to immediately kill your opponent, you should not fire a shot. Indeed, you probably shouldn't even present the weapon.

So, OK, you wound the guy. Now he's really, really upset at you, and he's right on top of you. You are going to suffer, and probably die. Nice work!
He'll start on your loved ones next.

Do some careful rethinking.


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## tacman605 (Oct 11, 2012)

The Judge and Governor what to say about them. As a survival tool they would be great. The ability to fire a duel role of short range game getter and then have a potent .45 LC cartridge for bigger game or SD would be great. Dual caliber survival rifles have been around a long time used by civilian and military alike.
In regards to a SD weapon I think the original intent/marketing was the idea to cover multiple bases with one gun. The shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon and the large caliber revolver will stop whatever threat there is. Were they right? Not sure.

Playing on a couple notions that you do not have to aim a shotgun just point in the general direction and shotguns don't over penetrate/use bird shot for home defense folks this fills that void. I have fired a couple of them and at close range the SD .410 buckshot load could/would be lethal to an intruder however at longer ranges you would have to know exactly what the gun patterned like with a particular load. Once you fired that round with multiple projectiles a miss could be devastating to the wrong person. The .45 Colt has been around a longtime and is a very good SD round for those that favor a big slower moving bullet.

You still have to aim a shotgun. Generally speaking out of an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel (The typical barrel found on a HD/police issue shotgun) the pattern will spread about one inch for every one yard traveled. This of course can be changed by choke tubes and the type of load. Bird shot fired from a shotgun at bedroom ranges may be as little at three inches in diameter and has the tendency to force it's way through a wall. The front portion of the shot charge destroys the barrier and the tail end goes right through the same hole. If you were close enough a hit with a full load of bird shot could mean a bad day for the receiver but would it stop them? A handgun firing a shot cartridge would/could increase hit potential but you still have to aim. I honestly do not know what the pattern would be on one of the Judges it would all depend on the load and distance. 

The two words you have to understand are lethality and incapacitation. Yes a load of shot fired from a handgun could be lethal but it may not incapacitate the threat. There are many documented cases of people that received lethal wounds but kept on coming. Yes they later bled out at the hospital or 2 minutes later in the yard but in that two minutes they killed or injured the victim.

DickO, Steve is correct. If it comes down to a lethal force encounter you are not shooting to deter, wound or otherwise scare the bad guy away. The purpose of you drawing and firing your firearm is to stop the threat. The same thing with warning shots the idea, at least in the old days, was to give the person that moment of pause before you used lethal force. Whatever goes up must come down so to speak. In today's liability conscious world you are responsible for every round you fire.

I don't know if I answered the question or just added fuel to the fire. The gun I did fire if I remember correctly had a pretty stout recoil with the .410 SD load was pretty stout. The guns even in the short barrel versions are pretty big. Whether you have a .22 rifle or a .410 handgun train to use it to the best of your ability.


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## DickO (Sep 27, 2012)

Like I said... Would be nice to hear from all those who have been in that situation before and how they handled the situation. Speculation is great to talk about (we all do that) but doesn't prove anything.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

It is not necessary to actually "see the elephant," to have a pretty good idea about what would happen when the fight starts.
The one time that my own home was about to be subject to a pretty serious invasion, the mere intimation that I was armed was enough to defuse the attempt. One of our sheriff's deputies handled the follow-up.
The one time that I actually needed to present a weapon, maneuver tactically, and prepare to inflict damage, the person who had begun to attack me wisely left the area while I was maneuvering on him.

I am moved to quote, "There is none so blind as those who will not see."


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## DickO (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks... For making my point. Most thieves don't "want" to get hurt and tend to shy away when running into what they least expect.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

OK, *DickO*, you're right.
So, according to you, all you need is an empty gun, since you'll never need to fire it. That certainly will keep you from shooting through any interior walls, per your original post.

I'm left with only one question: What did you want from the members of this forum, when you posted your original essay? Were you looking for validation for your purchase and your proposed tactics, or were you just making a statement?


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## EternalDragon (May 28, 2013)

Well, I own a Judge.

I am considering a 9x18 Mak. as a summer CCW. It is a bit bigger than a .380 and seems
to have the same fps as the .45 LC in the Judge. (12 rounds) Many carry a .380 for personal defense.

Would you say a 6-7 shot .380 is not a good weapon for self defense? The ability to throw
10-17 rounds of 9mm or .40 does not equal precise kill shots. Nor do you really need that
many rounds.

Anyway, I have heard of a few incidents where .410 buck shot from the Judge stopped or
killed the attacker. One incident the woman fired bird shot at the guy and he ran even though
he had a gun as well. 

I've shot the gun, seen ballistics tests in gel and the Judge with Federal .410 000 buck passed 
the penetration tests. 

I can keep the .45LC on the chest area of a target at 50 yards. I've shot a possum with the
PDX shell. Did not hit it with the disks (dark, aimed too low) but hit it with the bb's. It has not
been back since. 

It's a great FIREARM that can use various rounds and will defend you just fine.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

EternalDragon said:


> ...I am considering a 9x18 Mak. as a summer CCW. It is a bit bigger than a .380 and *seems to have the same fps as the .45 LC* in the Judge...


Having "the same fps" as the .45 LC does not translate into having the same fight-stopping power. Far from it.
Bullet frontal area and mass are also equally critical criteria, and in that case the 9mm-diameter Makarov bullet falls very short.



EternalDragon said:


> Many carry a .380 for personal defense. Would you say a 6-7 shot .380 is not a good weapon for self defense? The ability to throw 10-17 rounds...does not equal precise kill shots. *Nor do you really need that many rounds*...


My wife and I both carry .380 ACP semi-auto pistols. Hers is a "six-shooter," while mine fires eight. The .380 is a satisfactory defense weapon, if, _and only if,_ you are a very good, reflexive pistol shooter with lots of experience. Does that describe you? Honestly?
And about not needing that many rounds: Have you ever heard of anyone who was in an actual gunfight, who later said: "Well, I guess I was carrying too much ammunition!"? Well, neither have I.



EternalDragon said:


> ...I have heard of a few incidents where .410 buck shot from the Judge stopped *or killed* the attacker...


Please give references, or quote chapter and verse.
(I don't believe it.)


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## Donn (Jul 26, 2013)

bayhawk2 said:


> Have any of you ever even tried out the Judge?With *Federal handgun 000 Buckshot*?
> Until you own one and use the "right" ammo in it,well let's just say give me the Judge
> with 000 Buckshot and the bad guy is in a world of trouble if in my house.Put the right ammo
> in it and it's awesome.I have shot the Judge many times and I cannot tell you the pattern it holds and the damage it can do.Federal handgun 000 Buckshot and Remington Long Range #6's.
> Good patterns.Awesome gun.


 Question. If you were in the market for a HD shotgun, would a 410 be your first choice?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

First and foremost, the Taurus Judge is a joke......plain and simple, but it's still going to appeal to some.

Second, if I find the need to point a gun at someone and subsequently shoot them, it won't be to wound them.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The Judge is a brilliant gimmick that takes advantage of the belief by the uninitiated that the .410 is almost as devastating as a 12 gauge shotgun round fired from a full sized shotgun. It is not. A .410 shell loaded near the maximum with No. 6 shot is an adequate round for small game, when fired from a 28" full choke shotgun, at short range. Put that same round in a pistol with a rifled barrel, it becomes an adequate snake or rat load at a distance of about 10 feet. Beyond that, the rifled barrel causes a hole in the pattern that could leave a squirrel or bird completely untouched with a perfectly aimed shot. 

Would it stop the average human predator? Maybe...probably, if that attacker was not drugged up, or not very committed. But, if it did stop him, it would be due to pain and fear, rather than an incapacitating injury, unless it blinded him. Does that make it a good choice for self defense? No, it puts it in the category of a lot of other weak or unwieldy weapons - better than nothing, but not very confidence inspiring. 

Of course, if the attacker is as ignorant as the defender about its capabilities, he might die of fright, or run away screaming like a little girl.


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## Overkill0084 (Nov 28, 2010)

..never mind.


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## Pistol Pete (Jan 8, 2010)

Guys it is a snake gun. .410 for crawly snakes, .45 for 2 legged snakes. I'd rather have a Blackhawk but if the Judge turns you on, why not. I'd buy the S&W if I just had to have one. I'm not a Taurus fan.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Pistol Pete said:


> Guys it is a snake gun. .410 for crawly snakes, .45 for 2 legged snakes. I'd rather have a Blackhawk but if the Judge turns you on, why not. I'd buy the S&W if I just had to have one. I'm not a Taurus fan.


Re-read *Bisley*'s last post.
It isn't a "snake gun." Not for crawly ones, nor for two-legged ones.

There are better .45s. There are better snake guns, too.


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