# Thunder 380 Sights



## new guy

Went to the range yesterday and I am still having trouble with the sights on my Bersa. I tried from 5,7,10 and 15 yards, and I have to aim high to even get on target. I have to line up my front sight above the dots on my rear sight to even get close to the target. I have looked at this gun and I don't think the sights are adjustable other than for windage? I actually removed the laser grips a while ago because they were off more than the factory sights. I am not limpwristing this gun, I have my wrists and elbows locked and do not "milk" the gun when it fires. I love this gun but these sights are making me crazy. Any ideas?


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## Steve M1911A1

Since you wrote that "I actually removed the laser grips a while ago because they were off more than the factory sights," I still wonder whether you really are using the gun properly.

I have to assume that the laser in the grips hadn't been sighted-in by anyone. Certainly, you mustn't assume that the laser came already sighted-in. So if you had expectations that the laser would just automatically point to the correct place, you were making a very bad assumption based upon inexperience.
Usually, however, the iron sights on a factory-made pistol are pretty close to where they are supposed to be. Maybe not perfect, but close enough. So if your Bersa's sights were installed by the factory, they would be the correct height for the cartridges you would be using, even if they might not be finely adjusted for windage (left or right). The factory-installed sights should not make you shoot low.

Therefore, I still have to suspect your trigger technique. You may have everything locked up, and you may not be milking the pistol's grip, but I believe that you are not pressing the trigger while maintaining a proper sight picture. You probably are not following-through, either.
(Besides, if you were milking the grip, your shots would go _to the left_ and down, not just down-assuming that you're right-handed, that is.)

*Try This*:
Load up. Point the pistol downrange. Put the safety to "off." Now, very carefully cock the gun's hammer while keeping its muzzle pointing downrange.
Now line your sights up on the target, keep them there, and place your finger on the pistol's now-single-action trigger.
Maintaining your correct sight picture, _press_ (don't "pull") the trigger with a slow, steady increase in pressure, until the pistol fires and completely surprises you. Hold everything in place for a count of three. Don't be in a hurry to let the pistol drop down. Don't look for the hole in the target.
Do it again. And again. Fire five shots, each one a complete surprise, and each one with a carefully-maintained sight picture.
Your result should be a medium-size group of holes (not one ragged hole, by any means) centered around the point at which you've been aiming.

*Note*:
If you're using a bullseye target (a big black circle), _don't aim at its center_.
Aim instead at the very bottom edge of the circle (on the presumed vertical centerline, of course).
The reason for doing this is that the center of the bullseye is not a distinct point, so maintaining your sight picture is close to impossible.
The bottom edge of the black circle is distinct, and it presents a repeatable aiming point.

*Another Thought*:
I hate to ask this, but I gotta...
You do know what your sights should look like, when you're aiming. Right?
(My wife didn't, and was shooting high every time, because she absent-mindedly had forgotten how to line sights up.)
The front sight should be centered (left-to-right) in the rear sight's notch, and the top of the front sight should be exactly even with the top of the rear sight. Not above. Not below.

Let me know what happens.


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## new guy

Thanks Steve for your insight. I will certainly try these techniques next time I'm at the range. 

I do know what the sights are supposed to look like when properly sighted up. I shoot another pistol (.22lr) all the time that is dead on. That's why this gun has me puzzled. I take my time every time I fire, and no matter how steady I hold the gun, with the sights proper it always shoots low. I shoot at 6" targets from 25-30'. Aiming at the bullseye, I hit somewhere along the center bottom or even off target. I love the gun, and the way it feels and shoots. I know I'm new to guns and shooting in general, but I can hit center target all day from the same distances with my .22 and my bosses 9mm. That's why I am discouraged. I know I will figure it out, just looking for ideas. Thanks for your help.


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## Steve M1911A1

Well, if it's truly the gun, it's easy to replace its front sight with a shorter one that will make the point-of-impact higher.
The formula depends upon the height of the present front sight, the gun's sight radius, the distance to the target, and the amount of correction required. ("Sight radius" means the distance between your gun's rear sight and its front sight.)

Brownells sells replacement front sights, and the formula for determining the correction is to be found on their website.
Click on: Sight Correction Calculator | World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS


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## VAMarine

Does the gun have the pinky rest magazine basepad?

One last thing to try is adjusting your grip and relax the pinky or overlap it onto the support hand. That pinky, while it doesn't do much for accurate shooting can do a whole lot for inaccurate shooting.

I see the lesser distances tried, but did you shoot from a rest?


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## new guy

My gun does have the pinky rest on the bottom of the magazine. Which for me is really comfortable. 

I have not shot from a rested position. I have however shot from a crouched position and when I do that I do shoot better for some reason. With that said, most of the shooting I do is at a home outdoor range. And we shoot at an angle. Meaning we are not shooting at our shoulder height. When I crouch down kinda level with the target I shoot a lot better. With my .22 M&P I shoot good no matter my stance, but with my Bersa my stance matters. That's why I thought maybe it was my sights. I know I need to shoot more, and I will before I change anything on the gun itself.


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## Steve M1911A1

If your stance makes a difference, the problem isn't your sights.
Sights is sights. The sight setup works the same, regardless of your physical position. Especially at pistol-shooting distances.

Your trigger control needs improvement, as does your grip and your follow-through.
Piggy-backing on what *VAMarine* wrote, I think that you are involuntarily "milking" with your pinky finger: You are tightening it in concert with the movement of your trigger finger.
You need to practice to "isolate" your trigger finger, so that only it moves, while the rest of your digits grip the gun.

Merely "shooting more" won't help, unless you also work at learning better technique. Otherwise, you'll just be practicing the wrong thing, and nothing will change.


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## VAMarine

Definitely try overlapping your pinky










When kneeling, were you supporting an arm with a leg? If so, that added support could help reduce you dipping the gun.


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## denner

new guy said:


> I have not shot from a rested position.


Grasshopper, there lies your problem concerning any sight issue(if it's a sight issue). In other words you must take out as much human error as possible concerning a sighting issue. I've never run across anyone(you may be the first exception) that can shoot more accurately from a crouched position than off the bench. Bench it and see where you are grouping, I'd be willing to wager your sights are off. 1st get the windage corrected if it needs it. I've had pistols before shooting low left or right off the bench, corrected windage and it brought me to bullseye. If you know for a fact after you get your windage corrected that the pistol still shoots low you would generally need to get a higher rear sight or lower front sight or both.


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## denner

VAMarine said:


> Definitely try overlapping your pinky
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> When kneeling, were you supporting an arm with a leg? If so, that added support could help reduce you dipping the gun.


Know that's what a pistol should look like!


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## Steve M1911A1

...She's married, *denner*. :yawinkle:


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## VAMarine

denner said:


> ... If you know for a fact after you get your windage corrected that the pistol still shoots low you would generally need to get a higher rear sight or lower front sight or both.


I don't think there are any aftermarket sights available for the Bersa 380, its been a while since we sold ours but I recall the front sight being part of the slide, for the life of me I can't remeber if it is staked in or not.

The rear sight is somewhere adjustable, bit not for elevation. The sight could be replaced but the slide would have to be milled and refinished + cost of sights...it would probably be cheaper to buy another gun.

Steve is correct in that the laser won't be zeroed from the factory and without a bore sight and a rest, you'd have a hard time getting it dialed in.

Shooting at a downward slope usually results in hits going low. But I don't think you should have to have that much of a hold over @ 7 yards..

You really need to find a level spot and get a table and rest, even if its in the house using a laser cartridge with someone else keeping an eye on the Target or with the laser back on out doors with someone watching the laser. If the laser dips low during a ball and dummy drill (look it up) you'll know its you. The ball and dummy drill works without the laser but you will still need someone to watch the gun at first.

Also, how are your eyes? Do you wear glasses? Stigmatism? Bifocals? Prescription is current?


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## new guy

My eye sight is 20/20 or actually a little better. So my vision is good. I know my laser grips aren't sighted perfect, but I don't even use them so they aren't a factor. Once I get my shots right, then I will worry about the laser. The only way my front sight can be changed, I think, is to knock it out of the slide. There are no screws or adjustments on the front that I can see. I know the rear is adjustable for windage, but I will adjust that once I shoot rested to see how I do. Thanks guys!!!


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## paratrooper

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...She's married, *denner*. :yawinkle:


Yeah, I was thinking, those hands look like girl hands. :mrgreen:


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## Steve M1911A1

VAMarine said:


> ...I recall the front sight being part of the slide...The rear sight is somewhere adjustable, bit not for elevation...


The rear sight is adjustable for elevation by means of a flat-face file. But that's _only if the gun shoots too high_.
The front sight is similarly adjustable by file, if the gun shoots too low.
(Adjust the front sight in the opposite direction from that in which you want the impacts to move. Adjust the rear sight in the same direction from that in which you want the impacts to move.)


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## chrishirner

Hey ill tell ya my bersa 380 shoots very low, its like the front and rear sights came out of a different kit. front is nice and full size and the rear is tiny with smaller dots. The rear sight just isnt tall enough. I gave up on fighting with it so i just aim the bersa with the dots in a triangle shape and i hit the mark every time. I thought it could be a flinch or technique but i busseye my px4 then the m and p shield 9mm, then i grab the bersa and im 6 inches low at 30 feet. Its an inexpensive gun but honestly i think they can do better and heck i like the thing so it just gets aimed weird till i put new sights on it


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## berettatoter

chrishirner said:


> Hey ill tell ya my bersa 380 shoots very low, its like the front and rear sights came out of a different kit. front is nice and full size and the rear is tiny with smaller dots. The rear sight just isnt tall enough. I gave up on fighting with it so i just aim the bersa with the dots in a triangle shape and i hit the mark every time. I thought it could be a flinch or technique but i busseye my px4 then the m and p shield 9mm, then i grab the bersa and im 6 inches low at 30 feet. Its an inexpensive gun but honestly i think they can do better and heck i like the thing so it just gets aimed weird till i put new sights on it


Is your Thunder, one of the newer models, with the drift adjustable front sight? The older models has the front sight, that is milled as part of the slide....just curious.


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## chrishirner

new guy said:


> Went to the range yesterday and I am still having trouble with the sights on my Bersa. I tried from 5,7,10 and 15 yards, and I have to aim high to even get on target. I have to line up my front sight above the dots on my rear sight to even get close to the target. I have looked at this gun and I don't think the sights are adjustable other than for windage? I actually removed the laser grips a while ago because they were off more than the factory sights. I am not limpwristing this gun, I have my wrists and elbows locked and do not "milk" the gun when it fires. I love this gun but these sights are making me crazy. Any ideas?


Had the same issue with the bersa. I would shoot my m &p then my beretta and my ruger and all were dead on. Wanted to make sure i wasnt having a coffee induced flinch. So i got out the bersa and lined up the top of the sights and noticed that the rear sight partially obsured the front dot. I fired off anyhow and noticed at 30 feet its just barely hitting the bottom of the target. Went through 3 mags trying to make sure it wasnt me. Then i tried something different. I ignored the top of the sights and just centered the front dot in the middle of the rear notch ignoring the rear dots all together. For my gun that was dead on. POI was on the dot. If i shot it more or carried it ill probably file down the front sight or just replace them all together. But for a 250 dollar gun i just learned to live with it. But dont get me wrong every time i take it out i charge up my dremel and think about fixing it.


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## berettatoter

Never really had issues hitting with the Thunder 380, but mine is the older version with the integral front sight.


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