# Do you avoid....?



## Raymond

Are there places you no longer patronize due to the establishment having an "No Handgun" posting on the front door? Not looking to bash any particular business just curious if other ccw owners feel as I do. I personally have stopped going to most places where the ownership has banned handguns on the premises.


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## chessail77

Mexican Rest. in town...saw the sign when I was leaving and I won't go back....JJ


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## Raymond

I feel the same way. I avoid places like that too. Every now and then my daughter gets me to go into a large chain Toy store that does not allow ccw's


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

here in oregon the sign doesnt NOT have the force of law, you must be TOLD by the owner/manager ...... when this happens i leave, i take my business elsewhere and then i send a letter to the owner/manager and include the reciepts for item i purchased at his competitor and the reason why. i also post it our local oc group so that others can do the same. taking your money elsewhere is the best policy BUT it changes nothing unless you SHOW that owner/manager what it COSTS him.


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## wjh2657

For me it depends on my desire for their services. There are places serve really excellent food and I do go there. I put my 642 in a COM safe in the trunk until I get back out. I live in Tennessee, Nashville area (Memphis isn't Tennessee, it is a third world country!), and so far I haven't really run into that problem. Most restaurants are not posted. I send wife into post office and I no longer visit schools (Kids are now in their 40's) I am also a Constitutionalist and believe in the whole Constitution , not just the Second Amendment. I respect the right of property as being an object of the Natural Law just as much as the right to self defense. I have never encountered a sign at a retail store in our area or Kentucky.


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## Raymond

wjh2657 said:


> For me it depends on my desire for their services. There are places serve really excellent food and I do go there. I put my 642 in a COM safe in the trunk until I get back out. I live in Tennessee, Nashville area (Memphis isn't Tennessee, it is a third world country!), and so far I haven't really run into that problem. Most restaurants are not posted. I send wife into post office and I no longer visit schools (Kids are now in their 40's) I am also a Constitutionalist and believe in the whole Constitution , not just the Second Amendment. I respect the right of property as being an object of the Natural Law just as much as the right to self defense. I have never encountered a sign at a retail store in our area or Kentucky.


Trying to figure out if you are in Memphis, Nashville or KY. Just north of Nashville here in Portland TN. I too believe in the right of business owners to exclude firearms from their premises. The other side of that coin is my choice not to patronize them for that reason. Oh, yes I agree, Memphis is a 3rd world country as is many areas in Nashville now.


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## Dangerfield

Just as we have the right to carry a bussiness owner has the right to post. I don't have a problem with that.


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## chessail77

I agree a business owner has the right to post and ask you not to carry on his property and I have the right to buy elsewhere.....JJ


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## berettatoter

For the most part. There have been a few times, over the years, that the place where I needed to go and get something was the only place around that had what I needed. Most of the time I pocket carry and have taken a risk and just went in anyway. I rarely do this if it is a store or something, but always disarm if I am going into some governmental building or something like that. Sucks, but I don't want to loose my CC permit either.:smt076


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## fxlr

I live in upstate NY and have never seen ccw restricted other than schools or govt buildings .....


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## fuzzyjon79

Yes, this definitely plays a role in whether or not I'll frequent an establishment. I'm pretty lucky here in Tennessee, there aren't many places you can't carry other than the obvious federal buildings, schools, etc, etc.


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## Steve M1911A1

Ah, we have another poorly phrased question.

Yes, I _prefer_ to patronize businesses which do not discriminate against law-abiding gun owners.
But when I truly need something that is available nowhere else, I will patronize "gun free" businesses without altering my, um, mode of dress in any way.
Concealed is concealed.


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## wjh2657

Raymond said:


> Trying to figure out if you are in Memphis, Nashville or KY. Just north of Nashville here in Portland TN. I too believe in the right of business owners to exclude firearms from their premises. The other side of that coin is my choice not to patronize them for that reason. Oh, yes I agree, Memphis is a 3rd world country as is many areas in Nashville now.


Lafayette, Macon County. Hi neighbor!


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## Packard

Since I always carry (unless I am driving across state lines), ipso facto I don't go to such establishments. But since no one has ever notice I carry in the last 20 years I pretty much ignore that stuff. But if Starbucks put in metal detectors I'd have a real dilemma.

Some of the strip clubs on Long Island would wand the customers. But I'm too old for those places too.


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## Bisley

I'm a hundred miles from any major cities, and have never seen legal signs prohibiting legal carry...except at gun shows. In Texas, if the sign does not meet the criteria required by state law, you can ignore it. Not surprisingly, the folks who usually want to ban legally carried guns in their establishments rarely do any research on the subject, so they don't know this.

I have, however seen some signs _welcoming_ concealed handgun carriers. :smt1099


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Bisley said:


> I have, however seen some signs _welcoming_ concealed handgun carriers. :smt1099


wouldnt THAT be refreshing and safe?


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## Tuefelhunden

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Ah, we have another poorly phrased question.
> 
> Yes, I _prefer_ to patronize businesses which do not discriminate against law-abiding gun owners.
> But when I truly need something that is available nowhere else, I will patronize "gun free" businesses without altering my, um, mode of dress in any way.
> Concealed is concealed.


+1

I'll also admit that unlike obvious no, no's like state and federal buildings I frankly don't notice such postings unless very prominently displayed on said establishment. An arguement could be made that I should pay closer attention to such things but I just don't scrutinize every sticker on the front of every establishment.


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## Packard

Like Steve, I'm old and senile. They can't expect us to be able to shoot and also be able to read, can they?:mrgreen:


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## falchunt

I did vote the latter of the choices, but as a few have mentioned before...sometimes you maybe _dont see_ the sign...woops

On that note, I'd never push my luck with a federal building or school. They don't joke around with that type of thing and it is something that I do take very seriously. I wouldn't judge anyone, everybody has a responsibility to know the regulations. What you do with that knowledge is completely up to you.

:smt1099


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## clockworkjon

CC is new in WI but I haven't seen many places that I normally go to posted, so hopefully it won't be an issue. But it a suitable alternative can be found without going too far out of my way, then I would go there instead.


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## pic

well said, concealed is concealed ,who can guarantee my safety?? and deny me my constitutional rights to carry and protect my family from the scum that surrounds us


Steve M1911A1 said:


> Ah, we have another poorly phrased question.
> 
> Yes, I _prefer_ to patronize businesses which do not discriminate against law-abiding gun owners.
> But when I truly need something that is available nowhere else, I will patronize "gun free" businesses without altering my, um, mode of dress in any way.
> Concealed is concealed.


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## Packard

falchunt said:


> On that note, I'd never push my luck with a federal building or school...
> 
> :smt1099


A clarification (for New York, anyhow): You are forbidden to carry a weapon into an "accredited" school. Some schools are not accredited with the state and they are not covered by the prohibition.


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## MLB

That seems contradictory to the info posted at Handgunlaw.us regarding prohibited locations in NY:

He knowingly has in his possession a rifle, shotgun or firearm in or upon *a building or grounds, used 
for educational purposes, of any school, college or university,* except the forestry lands, wherever 
located, owned and maintained by the State University of New York college of environmental 
science and forestry, without the written authorization of such educational institution; §265.01[3])​
Emphasis mine.


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## Packard

MLB said:


> That seems contradictory to the info posted at Handgunlaw.us regarding prohibited locations in NY:
> 
> He knowingly has in his possession a rifle, shotgun or firearm in or upon *a building or grounds, used
> for educational purposes, of any school, college or university,* except the forestry lands, wherever
> located, owned and maintained by the State University of New York college of environmental
> science and forestry, without the written authorization of such educational institution; §265.01[3])​
> Emphasis mine.


I will see if I can document this. But for the real world your source is a solid suggestion. It would be hard to know before you walked in a school if it were accredited or not. So you would have to use the "any school..." doctrine to guide your actions. However, I believe my note was correct. I will see if I can find out for sure.


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## Packard

You are correct in that your quote is exactly as the statute is written. But there needs to be a legal definition of "school" or we would be excluded from karate schools, firearms training schools, music schools, etc. Clearly there must be a legal definition of "school". I was told that it had to be an accredited school (most day care and preschools are accredited, most karate schools are not).


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Packard said:


> You are correct in that your quote is exactly as the statute is written.  But there needs to be a legal definition of "school" or we would be excluded from karate schools, firearms training schools, music schools, etc. Clearly there must be a legal definition of "school". I was told that it had to be an accredited school (most day care and preschools are accredited, most karate schools are not).


accredited by whom? many dojos ARE accredited by the BBB..... some are inspected and certified by their individual martial arts associations. so again, the definition of these terms allows for just about any interpretation.

btw, with my oregon chl i can carry , either open or concealed in any public school, college or university in the state.... awesome huh?


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## Survivor

I carry where it's legal to do so. An establishment will get my business until such a time that I am asked to leave because I am carrying. I will do so without incident and not return after that.


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## falchunt

Good points. I know that the state of Michigan (I live in Ohio and my ccw is also Ohio) permit holders are not permitted to conceal carry their weapon in any area where there are more than (something like) 1200 people gathered. This is in addition to the restricted areas that Ohio permit holders are not allowed to carry. Just an interesting fact.


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## Charliefox

I carry a concealed weapon. That means nobody needs to know its there, and if they do find out it's probably because something bad is happening. I these cases I don't think signs mean a whole lot...


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## Brevard13

The only time I go anywhere that won't allow concealed carry is I have to go eat out with the in-laws. As for me and my wife I try really, really, really hard to avoid places that serve alcohol. 1. Because I can't legally carry there and 2. because there is always someone who doesn't know when to stop and ends up starting some kind of trouble. For the times I can't take a gun I always have multiple knives (thank God the signs say no handguns and not no concealed weapons)


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## Prin_C

The only places I do not go with my firearm is to court or on an airline. Apart from this, I go everywhere else with it. places with signs indicating firearms are not allowed do not deserve my business, unless its a government establishment.


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## Sawmilljack

Amen, I like your phrasing, attitude, and uncommon common sense sir.


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## XRacer

Went to Denney's for breakfast this morning and was dissapointed to see the no ccw sign. Been thinking about it the rest of the day, do I go again, or switch to another breakfast place. I will let them know how I feel when I do the online survey.


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## Packard

XRacer said:


> Went to Denney's for breakfast this morning and was dissapointed to see the no ccw sign. Been thinking about it the rest of the day, do I go again, or switch to another breakfast place. I will let them know how I feel when I do the online survey.


I've eaten at the local Denny's and I'd suggest to them that they put up that same sign; the service and food were so bad I felt like shooting the place up. (But I'm a picture of restraint and all my handguns, RPGs an Tomahawk missiles remained holstered, stowed, or in silos.)


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## berettabone

For the most part, I will not patronize an establishment that posts....it's my right.....


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## ROGRRR

FALCHUNT
You bring up some interesting points
You say that MI CCW holders are not permitted to....
Since you are an OHIO CCW Holder, are YOU exempt from that prohibition ?
Also, since they are not permitted to, does that mean they can OPEN carry ?



falchunt said:


> Good points. I know that the state of Michigan (I live in Ohio and my ccw is also Ohio) permit holders are not permitted to conceal carry their weapon in any area where there are more than (something like) 1200 people gathered. This is in addition to the restricted areas that Ohio permit holders are not allowed to carry. Just an interesting fact.


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## Brevard13

You still have to respect the gun laws for the state the reciprocates. Like some places you can carry a gun into a resturant that serves alcohol as long as the carrier is not drinking. In NC you are not allowed to carry concealed ANY resturant that serves alcohol.

I know a couple of people that do (but don't drink) and said if they haev to use it then they will deal with the fines, having their gun and license taken away, and the other legal stuff. It is their choice, I however won't put me or my wife in the position of going somewhere I can't defend myself or her. Sometimes I break down and go somewhere. I just tell her she better hopes if something goes down we can make it back to the car.


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## BearTaylor

I figure if my gun is not welcome neither am I.


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## scooter

ROGRRR said:


> FALCHUNT
> You bring up some interesting points
> You say that MI CCW holders are not permitted to....
> Since you are an OHIO CCW Holder, are YOU exempt from that prohibition ?
> Also, since they are not permitted to, does that mean they can OPEN carry ?


The best thing to do is IF your CCL is honored in another state LEARN that states laws and ABIDE by those laws while in that state. 
End of confusion.


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## rex

I don't look for the signs but if I see one and don't need to go there I won't.Otherwise I'm legal unless I'm made and asked to leave.


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## capgun

I ignore the signs. If I'm doing it right they will never know.


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## Brevard13

capgun said:


> I ignore the signs. If I'm doing it right they will never know.


Yeah until you forget and move wrong and print. it will take one person to complain and the manager or worker, heck even the person who seen it call the cops.


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## Steve M1911A1

If you conceal your weapon properly, you will not "print" noticeably, and you won't be found out.
Small amounts of print-through are, essentially, invisible. This is particularly true if you carry at "4:00" or (for lefties) "8:00," because your arm covers and obscures the area quite well.
If your body structure permits it, "11:00" and "1:00" ("appendix carry") can also be almost completely invisible.


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## Blade

The poll actually needs another option. In Missouri it's not illegal to carry in businesses with "No Gun" signs posted. So, given the option, I prefer to patronize gun friendly businesses. But it I need to go somewhere and see a sign, I just ignore it and go on in. Unless it's one of those locations that are illegal by law, like schools, hospitals, etc.


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## jrwilson

POCKET CARRY!!! pant pocket, jacket pocket, shirt pocket, pick any pocket, who can see in your pocket? Trust me when your in the store and you put someone down that is going to kill the business owners family behind the cash register, I bet he/she forgets about the sign. We had that exact same thing happen here, and the owner refused to press any charges and the sign came down. Now no, I hope that rarely or never happens, and I try and be a good law abiding citizen. But, nowadays it can happen anywhere and if you think the bad guys can't read and don't pick places that have those signs then your living in a fantasy world. I don't want to be the one in the store that it happens and I reach in my waste band or under my arm and its empty because its in the Jeep. Thankfully I don't have to pick where I shop, I just go in do my business and leave. This is just me, I'm not saying how anyone else should or should not approach it, so I'm not saying anyone else is wrong or right.


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## wjh2657

jrwilson said:


> POCKET CARRY!!! pant pocket, jacket pocket, shirt pocket, pick any pocket, who can see in your pocket? Trust me when your in the store and you put someone down that is going to kill the business owners family behind the cash register, I bet he/she forgets about the sign. We had that exact same thing happen here, and the owner refused to press any charges and the sign came down. Now no, I hope that rarely or never happens, and I try and be a good law abiding citizen. But, nowadays it can happen anywhere and if you think the bad guys can't read and don't pick places that have those signs then your living in a fantasy world. I don't want to be the one in the store that it happens and I reach in my waste band or under my arm and its empty because its in the Jeep. Thankfully I don't have to pick where I shop, I just go in do my business and leave. This is just me, I'm not saying how anyone else should or should not approach it, so I'm not saying anyone else is wrong or right.


I have carried for 3 years now (642 in a pocket holster) and the only two people that know I carry are my wife and my seamstress ( she lengthens and reinforces my right pocket in all of my trousers and jeans). It isn't that much of an issue around here in rural TN as very few places are posted. Still I don't really get too worried about being "made" with my mode of carry.


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## Steve M1911A1

jrwilson said:


> POCKET CARRY!!! pant pocket, jacket pocket, shirt pocket, pick any pocket, who can see in your pocket?...


It's not merely a matter of who can see into your pocket.
There's also the issue of _what can fit into your pocket_.
Pocket-size pistols are only effective in the hands of someone who is already fairly expert at pistolcraft. People who have not already learned to shoot well with full-size pistols, and who are not willing to put in time doing continuing dry- and live-fire practice, will only cause disasters if they carry pocket pistols.

Furthermore, people can "see" what's in your pocket!
We were at a concert, last night, at our island's theater. We sat with another couple, old friends and the parents of a fine (classical) musician.
Just joking around, the husband of this couple put his hand into my right-hand pants pocket, as if looking for money with which to make a contribution to the theater's operating fund.
He was _very_ surprised at what he found!

He took it well, and he kept his mouth shut.


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## jrwilson

I agree with what your saying Steve about the pocket pistol experience, but what I wear, there is no way you can tell what is in my pocket. I did have almost the same thing happen to me but in my jacket pocket, but my friend was quiet about it too! But you can agree, there is never a "perfect" place for CCW every time and every place. Adaptability to your surroundings/wardrobe is key.


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## kg333

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Yes, I _prefer_ to patronize businesses which do not discriminate against law-abiding gun owners.
> But when I truly need something that is available nowhere else, I will patronize "gun free" businesses without altering my, um, mode of dress in any way.
> Concealed is concealed.


About the same here. "No guns" signs lack force of law in my state, so if necessary... This is of course leaving out places that are actually a problem: bars, schools, etc.

KG


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## Ricky59

I carry anyway ..
don't ask ..don't tell ..


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## shakinghorizons

Dangerfield said:


> Just as we have the right to carry a bussiness owner has the right to post. I don't have a problem with that.


I have to agree, although I try to avoid places with signs. The only place I have seen with a sign here in Colorado is Jared's (jewelry store). I have carried in there a couple times, forgetting that I was armed, but most of the time I will leave the firearm in the car. Although, I have a hard time going in there now unarmed, knowing that they were robbed at gun point a couple months ago.


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## dman

How many people have made the sacrifice of their time and even their lives so we can live the freedoms our fore-fathers set forth . I find it the ultimate insult to ignor this , how dare they. So Wal-Mart doesn't
grant me the sense or right , I don't shop at Wal-Mart. I feel Wal-Mart and all other conglamerates print 
tee-shirts with bulls-eye targets on one side and "kick me " on the other !


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## SigP229R

I didn't vote either way because sometimes you just don't have a choice.


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## NMpops

I'll avoid them if I can. But I agree, sometimes there's no choice.


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## lamrith

The Walmart by me has no signs posted anyplace, I have carried in there a few times, normally to buy ammo..


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## kg333

lamrith said:


> The Walmart by me has no signs posted anyplace, I have carried in there a few times, normally to buy ammo..


I have yet to see a Walmart that's posted anywhere in KY. I'm guessing dman ran into one with an uptight manager. It's certainly not a company wide policy.

KG


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## velo99

I noticed a few years ago that a lot of places pulled their volunteer signage. Most around here are the regulated businesses that are required to disallow ccw. I could probably carry open and not catch too much static in the smaller towns around me.


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## Tnic

Unfortunately most of my fav restaurants here serve alcohol and I can't legally OC or CC in them. Those that are carry legal that ask me to leave will get a "No guns=No money card".

I think school = K-12 school in the statutes.


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