# nickel plated cartridges



## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

what companies and caliber of ammo is nickel plated?


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I think Remington makes the most but a bunch of other companys do also. Most all of it is hand gun and in most of the calibers. I never paid that much attention although I do like nickel cases.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Reminton,Federal and a lot of others. I think they charge about $1.00 more a hundred or something like that.:smt1099


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Pretty much any premium SD cartridge has a nickel-plated casing. Speer, Federal, Remington, Corbon, and Hornady to name a few. It's just to make the casing smoother for more reliable cycling. I carry either a 185gr Corbon DPX +P or 200gr Hornady TAP +P...both have nickel coating, and the TAP is notorious for it's super slick black coating.


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

Well, now that the question has been raised:

Nickel plating handgun cartridges began just after WW I when smokeless powder began coming on the scene for revolver cartridges. (Many early twentieth-century rounds were loaded with semi-smokeless powder.) Ammunition that was used by police agencies, .38 S&W, .38 Special, .45 Colt; were nickel plated to avoid the verdigris that built up on brass cartridges carried in leather cartridge loops. This is the green gunk that forms on brass.

When the .38 Super round was introduced, the nickel plating was the only distinction between the .38 Super and the .38 ACP rounds.

Now, there is no real need for nickel plating, and no reason for it except top indicate a premium loading or some special use round.

Old ammunition loaded for the Army by Frankford arsenal may appear to be nickel but is actually a tin coating. This on .45 S&W rounds.

And, it looks nice in the loops of a Buscadero rig.

Bob Wright


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Don't the nickel plated rounds have more knockdown power?:anim_lol:

Zhur


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

zhurdan said:


> Don't the nickel plated rounds have more knockdown power?:anim_lol:
> 
> Zhur


Technically no, because the nickel plating is only on the casing, which doesn't contribute to ballistics. :mrgreen:


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

ZUHR - loved your little laughing symbol
fivehourfrenzy - did you think he was serious?

anyway - i got on midway usa and yes it does appear that all the nickel plating cartridges are on the special HD stuff - looked like speer has the widest selection - they have nickel on a lot of their calibers

thanks for the input guys


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

hideit said:


> fivehourfrenzy - did you think he was serious?


YES, I THOUGHT HE WAS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SERIOUS.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

In all seriousness, I did hear that they nickel plate them to help with extraction. I don't know if that is true or not, but sounds plausible. 

I use Hornady XTP's in my carry pistol, because they look really cool and scary.

Zhur


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Well if nickel plating makes the casing smoother and less likely to hang up on a feed ramp, it can't hurt.

I'm with you on the XTPs...I'm assuming it's the TAP line (with XTP bullet) that has the black casing? Yeah they look mean as hell, but they're also very good SD loads. Supposedly the XTP expands at speeds down to 700fps, which is a plus for me.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

fhf.. you ever heard of MFTW? That's internet language for ...
Marketing For The Win.

They have dupped you in spades my friend. Any amount of bullet travelling at 900+fps is going to do some damage. Granted, I believe it's 80% of gunshot victims survive their wounds, but that has nothing to do with bullet type, but bullet placement. Learning to shoot with accuracy has more to do with lethality than does bullet design, in my opinion. You put four rounds out of 8 over the heart, and you win. You put two out of 8 in the forehead, you win. I'll show you what I mean.



8 over the heart.

Some of you may have seen this already, but it exudes my point. Shoot to critical areas, don't depend on the bullet to do the work. Now, that being said, I'm gonna use the ugliest, fastest, meanest looking round I can find, and still hit where I mean to hit. This pistol was loaded with Hornady XTP's, and they went where I wanted them to, except for the last one, it was the flyer. (Oh, and Remedy is a friend of mine and I wanted to make him eat some words and pay up on a bet, he did.) I put 8 rounds over the heart, that person would be in bbbbbaaaaaaadddd shape regardless of bullet type. Ball ammo, Hollowpoints, in my opinion, hollowpoints only carry an advantage because I'm less likely to poke a clean hole thru them an hit Suzi the innocent bystander that I didn't account for in the millisecond decision making process. (Guess what, you are going to do about 60% or more of it wrong when under stress). Don't be fooled into buying one bullet type over the other because they say it'll expand faster at lower velocities.

It's a sham. Buy the bullets that feed well in your gun, if they don't feed, you can't shoot, if they don't shoot, it doesn't matter how fast they come out of your 3" barrel. Function over fantasy, hits over hype, remember that, please.

Zhurdan


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Oh I remember it just as much as anyone. But using a bullet that will expand at lower velocities won't make me shoot any differently than a bullet that doesn't. And trust me my friend, regardless of what bullet I use, none will come out of my 3" barrel at 900+fps. I'm lucky to get close to 800fps, and realistically I'm probably around 750fps. No, it's not based on a chrono, and I've heard from possibly you that you only gain 30-60fps per inch of barrel, but I believe that's on the basis that the barrel extends past the standard tested length, which is 5" for a .45ACP. I don't remember where I read it, but going down to a 3" barrel in a .45 drops muzzle velocity down as much as 40% or so. The Hornady TAP 200gr +P is rated at 1055fps, and the 185gr Corbon DPX +P is rated at 1075fps. Even a mere 30% drop in muzzle velocity from a 5" barrel to a 3" barrel would put me at 739fps in the TAPs and 753fps in the DPX. That's SLOW, and very few, if any, .45 auto JHP will expand at that speed, much less 5-7 yards away when it's going even slower.

Yes, bullet placement is key, and even if a 9mm expands fully to .45, a .45 will never shrink. However, there's a big difference in a .451" diameter bullet that doesn't expand, and one that expands to .700-.800" in diameter. I pick the ones that have the best chance of expanding at the low velocity they achieve out of my 3" barrel. I make sure they cycle reliably and are readily available, I practice with them, and I carry them with confidence. The bullet's only as good as the shooter, but there's no harm in picking a particular load that has a better chance of expanding than others. The Hornady TAP and Corbon DPX lead the scores in short-barrel ballistics, but I have yet to see tests from the SB Gold Dots from Speer (which I would guess would do very well).

Just for sh*ts and giggles, I would like to do some wetpack testing of my own. I realize wetpack doesn't replicate human body tissue even remotely as well as 10% calibrated ballistic gel, but it would give me an idea of which loads perform better than others in a consistent setting.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Please for the love of God, stop worring about tests and start worrying about bullet placement!!!!!!

Did that video not show you anything? Sure, stress is going to make me miss a little more, but bullets on target are going to do more than any one bullet you might get a hit on... Please.. if you can, show us what you can do in a hurry on a target. If you are hitting A's, I'll never say a word to you again about any testing you wanna do, but if you aren't hitting A's in rapid succession, please don't tell me about bullet velocity or expansiveness. I post vids to show one thing.. not "I'm better than you" but to show that what I have to say has some reasonably realistic basis in fact. The bullets hit where they hit when I pulled the trigger. 

I really hope that you don't think I'm calling you out here, but man am I tired of hearing about bullet performance. HIT THE GD TARGET MULTIPLE TIMES!!! If you are using a 32ACP it'll be better than any super duper expanding-at-low-velocity round that misses 6 out of 8 times.

Focus more on bullet placement than bullet design. I'm not telling you this to be a jerk, but so that you can prepare for reality, because when you can't hit the bad guy with your first 10, he's gonna "pwn" your arse and your gonna be cut, or shot, or dead. Learn from those who have been there or done that, not from some ammo manufacturer. Yes, I've been there, done that, so please understand that I'm not talking out my butt.

I'm tired now.... wow is it exhausting to repeat ones self.

Zhur


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Come on man...you don't need to tell me about bullet placement. I know just as well as you do that a spray of .22LRs to COM or the face will end a fight way faster than a .44 mag that misses. The fact of the matter is I practice as much as I can, and regardless of what bullet I use, it's gonna hit where it's gonna hit. Using bullet A is not gonna change POI from bullet B, bullet C, or bullet X, Y, and Z.

But when I'm not at the range shooting, I can't do much research on bullet placement. COM is key, and the center of the chest is where you wanna put the lead until the BG drops. Regardless of bullet selection, that's a constant rule. Put the bullets in the BG's chest until he drops.

Trust me, I'm not sacrificing range time to read about terminal ballistics of different bullet designs. It's not like I'm sitting here debating, "Should I go to the range and become a more proficient defensive shooter, or should I stay home and try to find the golden bullet?" I have time for both. I practice as much as I have the time for and can afford, and bullet selection has no bearing whatsoever on the time I spend shooting and practicing quick and consistent hits on COM. Finding the suitable load does not interfere with my training, nor does it interfere with the fact that bullet placement is the first and foremost element in defending yourself with a gun.

I hope I'm making sense...I have control up until the point where I pull the trigger, and the bullet does the rest. If I hit COM over and over again, I've done my job as a SD shooter. And I would *prefer* that the load I'm carrying has some chance of expanding when it hits the BG. If and when I have to blast someone in SD, I want each and every bullet to 1) hit COM, preferably in the center of the chest, and 2) destroy as much of that BG's insides as possible. Hitting COM, like you said, is the most important aspect. But once I've done that, I want the bullet to inflict as much damage as possible.

So you see my friend, my bullet selection does not interfere with my practice. I think that's what you haven't understood up until this point.


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

If nickel plating actually aided extraction, don't you think the Army would specify nickel plating?

I think the co-efficient of friction of brass to steel is about optimum. How many nickel plated bearings do you see, compared to brass/bronze?

Bob Wright


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, that presents a connundrum then. Why would they make it less efficient by nickel plating them? I'm gonna have to look into this, simply because it intrigues me. I'll see if I can find some info on co-efficient of friction on Brass to steel vs Nickel to steel. That won't be your standard google search me thinks. hehe. 

Again, this is just a curiosity to me, not that it really matters what kind of bullet you use as long as it's a hit. Wait, did I say that already?:mrgreen:

Zhur


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

zhurdan said:


> Well, that presents a connundrum then. Why would they make it less efficient by nickel plating them? I'm gonna have to look into this, simply because it intrigues me. I'll see if I can find some info on co-efficient of friction on Brass to steel vs Nickel to steel. That won't be your standard google search me thinks. hehe.
> 
> Again, this is just a curiosity to me, not that it really matters what kind of bullet you use as long as it's a hit. Wait, did I say that already?:mrgreen:
> 
> Zhur


As I said before, nickel plating was used as an identifying feature. In fact, for the re-loader many prefer plain brass, as nickel sometimes flakes off.

Bob Wright


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

zhurdan said:


> not that it really matters what kind of bullet you use as long as it's a hit. Wait, did I say that already?:mrgreen:


I don't think so...I don't recall you saying anything of the sort. :mrgreen:


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

Mr. Wright,

Perhaps I heard that about nickel plated when I was shooting alot of SASS. Could it have been because of black powder shooters and making it easier to clean up? Perhaps that's where I heard about it being "easier" and maybe the "extraction" part just jumped in there somehow. I do recall lots of nickel plated brass in loops though. It's been a while. I always used regular old brass, but I didn't shoot the stinky stuff.

Zhur


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

I wonder what Wolf uses...probably rusted out iron or something, hahaha.

But seriously, the only jams I've ever had in my 1911 have been with non-nickel plated brass casings (CCI Blazer). Corbon, Speers, and Hornadys all run fine.


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## Black Metal (Jan 16, 2008)

fivehourfrenzy said:


> But seriously, the only jams I've ever had in my 1911 have been with non-nickel plated brass casings (CCI Blazer


Thats funny because cci blazer ammo uses aluminum cases


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

Drew_Rami_P said:


> Thats funny because cci blazer ammo uses aluminum cases


Oh okay, well it's aluminum then...not nickel plated though I don't think.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

bob:
i recently read that the army did not go with it because it is easy to see 
thus it is ok for us at an outdoor range to find them but the army doesn't want the bg to be able to identify from a distance


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## Teuthis (Apr 9, 2008)

If I remember correctly, the nickel plated cases were a little stiffer, and harder to resize in reloading them. I seem to remember it requiring a little more pressure on the press. That would be the only definitive difference I can perceive in them, except as someone said, they do not mildew in leather.


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## fivehourfrenzy (Aug 12, 2007)

From http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/Ni-en.htm:



> Nickel
> Nickel is silvery-white. hard, malleable, and ductile metal. It is of the iron group and it takes on a high polish. It is a fairly good conductor of heat and electricity. In its familiar compounds nickel is bivalent, although it assumes other valences. It also forms a number of complex compounds. Most nickel compounds are blue or green. Nickel dissolves slowly in dilute acids but, like iron, becomes passive when treated with nitric acid. Finely divided nickel adsorbs hydrogen.
> 
> Applications
> ...


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## Bob Wright (May 10, 2006)

hideit said:


> bob:
> i recently read that the army did not go with it because it is easy to see
> thus it is ok for us at an outdoor range to find them but the army doesn't want the bg to be able to identify from a distance


Well, if shiny is easy to see, then why did the Army use tinned cases?

I don't think visibility of nickel vs. brass ever seriously entered into the equation. If Springfield or Frankford Arsenal had ever found any advantage to nickel plating, G.I.s would be loading shiny ammunition.

Another one of those myths, like hearing the ping of an empty clip being ejected from an M1 rifle. Good story, but not true.

Bob Wright


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