# Which is better for ccw 9mm or 45acp under normal circumstances?



## ShariMetoyerla (Nov 15, 2016)

Pros and cons please.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

I like 9mm because the guns are easier to conceal due to their size. There are some compact 45's out there too. The 9mm has less recoil for faster follow up shots and faster target acquisition. Smaller 45 auto's have more muzzle blast. I have both 9mm & 45 acp and I use the glock 19 for CCW which gives me 15 shots. Hope this helps. jmho fwiw

P.S. It goes to what caliber you shoot most accurately. and practice, too! jmho


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

The answer is always the one you can shoot more accurately.

For myself, I prefer 9 mm Para in compact or subcompact carry pistols since small handguns might not handle the recoil of the .45 ACP round as well. Also, a smaller pistol usually already has a limited magazine capacity which becomes more limited with the larger caliber. Shorter slide .45 ACP pistols sometimes have cycling issues due to the recoil characteristics of the round.

Having said that, if you feel you are accurate with .45 ACP and have a pistol that handles that caliber well and conceals well, I see no reason not to carry it.


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## ShariMetoyerla (Nov 15, 2016)

I think I've made up my mind on what buy for my new ccw. Going with the 9mm. Thank you!


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Comes down to each his own.......

Ford or Chevy....

Pepsi or Coke......


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

45acp, a Chevy and a Coke.:smt1099


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## Craigh (Jul 29, 2016)

ShariMetoyerla said:


> Pros and cons please.


I would agree with 9mm though I carried a 45 for many years. A lot also depends on how deeply concealed you want the handgun to be. How small. For example, I have three concealed carry weapons these days. Little, bigger and bigger yet. The smaller usually has some sort of compromise over larger. 

Ruger LCP II
Smith and Wesson Shield 9mm
Walther PPQ

The Ruger is only 380 and the fewest round magazine. The Shield is 9mm but its largest magazine is 8 round single stack. The Walther PPQ is a little larger yet, but I load it with 17 rounds in the magazine. As a compromise, the S&W Shield generally gets the most CCW use. It conceals fairly easily with an Alien Gear Super Tuck III. The same holster type I use for the PPQ, but the little Ruger is for those times I just want to use the pocket holster which came with it. I only get 6 rounds plus one in the chamber.

One thing I suggest and is something I follow completely. Never carry a gun on a daily basis where you haven't trained extensively with it. I'm talking 200-300 rounds of live ammo though it at a range where you'll know if it's reliable. Then spend a lot of time with an empty pistol at home practicing your presentation, eventually moving to a range which allows this. Be very careful practicing this with live ammunition. If and when the time comes where you need to use it, stress levels are going to go through the roof. You want training and muscle memory to be able to take over. Conceal and carry is not just buying a pistol, holster then strapping it on. It is the entire package which includes the training.

Take care,

Craig


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## Babbalou1956 (Sep 2, 2014)

Something I found interesting in the Nov 2016 issue of Gun Tests magazine was a comparison of several small 9mm & .45 pistols; Comparable muzzle energy. I would have guessed the .45 would have more energy even in short barrels that but wasn't the case here. A 9mm Glock 43 with a 3.4" barrel averaged 347 ft. lbs & a .45 Glock 36 with a 3.8" barrel averaged 315 ft. lbs of energy. One of the three 9mm ammo types tested was +P, no +P .45 ammo was used. I don't believe that ft. lbs of energy is the only valid consideration but something to look at. My newest carry pistol is a SIG P250 subcompact in 9mm. Holds 12 rounds. In .45 it holds 6 rounds. And 9mm is cheaper to practice with than .45. But if the SHTF at home I have another SIG P250; a 4.7" barrel .45. 10+1 rounds. In short I prefer to carry a 9 but like the .45 for a house gun. If I open carried I'd probably take my .45. FWIW, I do have slightly faster follow up shots with the 9mm but both are good. A matter of personal preference.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

I never go anywhere without a .45. Nine's and forty's are great for pocket carry. What's best is up to the individual. The first shot is the one that counts that's why I want a .45. Just go out and set up some plastic 2 liter soda bottles fill 'em up with sand and shoot them with both a .45 and a "nine" the results will speak for themselves. Same for steel plates.


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## SamBond (Aug 30, 2016)

ShariMetoyerla said:


> I think I've made up my mind on what buy for my new ccw. Going with the 9mm. Thank you!


Well range ammo costs less for a nine, the nine will have less recoil, during the shortage 9mm ammo was easier to find and a nine will probably hold more cartridges than a 45 auto of about the same size.

The flip side is, with a 9mm you have to rely on bullet expansion for maximum effectiveness.
The 45 bullet starts out big. If it doesn't expand at least you've got a Big Bullet on your side.

Sam


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

ShariMetoyerla said:


> *I think I've made up my mind on what buy for my new ccw. Going with the 9mm.* Thank you! [emphasis added]


Um, fellahs, I think that the OP has left the building.
She hasn't posted for a whole week.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

You left out the excellent .40S&W cartridge. Lots of really fine handguns in this round and the .40 in defensive loadings is an excellent choice.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Um, fellahs, I think that the OP has left the building.
> She hasn't posted for a whole week.


When has the fact that nobody is listening ever slowed us down?


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## Illyia (Jan 12, 2017)

ShariMetoyerla said:


> Pros and cons please.


WhatEVER you pull out of your waistband!

Generally speaking the 9mm will hold more rounds which give it the edge considering both have similar terminal power.


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## tresi (Nov 26, 2016)

A well placed shot will always beat a bigger bullet. I have a 100 pound sister inlaw that got shot from 2 feet away with 44 mag. The bullet struck less than a inch from the heart and didn't stop her from getting back up. Even a 22 to the heart is fatal. Choose what you shoot well.


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## 44MLBPILOT (Apr 21, 2017)

Craigh said:


> One thing I suggest and is something I follow completely. Never carry a gun on a daily basis where you haven't trained extensively with it. I'm talking 200-300 rounds of live ammo though it at a range where you'll know if it's reliable. Then spend a lot of time with an empty pistol at home practicing your presentation, eventually moving to a range which allows this. Be very careful practicing this with live ammunition. If and when the time comes where you need to use it, stress levels are going to go through the roof. You want training and muscle memory to be able to take over. Conceal and carry is not just buying a pistol, holster then strapping it on. It is the entire package which includes the training.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Craig


I couldn't agree with this statement more! It is CRITICALLY important that you train, a LOT with whatever gun you're going to be carrying around. It is also very true that, at the time of actual confrontation, the stress level is unbelievable. Most people are going to have a very hard time hitting the target, even in close up encounters. Your odds improve dramatically if you practice....a lot! You can depend on muscle memory a great deal to help you through the unthinkable.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

tresi said:


> A well placed shot will always beat a bigger bullet. I have a 100 pound sister inlaw that got shot from 2 feet away with 44 mag. The bullet struck less than a inch from the heart and didn't stop her from getting back up. Even a 22 to the heart is fatal. Choose what you shoot well.


Exactly, missed , but still knocked her down. Hmm


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## TimberSlayer (Apr 28, 2017)

I have provided a link at the end of my post here that contains a very comprehensive chart of ballistics data on 9mm, 40, .45 and 380. Ballistic gel testing can only offer us so much information on bullet performance. Like many have said before me, shot placement takes more importance than round selection. 

And, obviously, what ever you can shoot the best (accurately and rapidly) will make for the most optimum round for you to carry.

What I find interesting in this ballistic test and many others I have seen is that .45 ACP performs BARELYYYY better than 9mm in terms of expansion. 9mm is typically within .1-.2 inches shy of what most .45 hollows can do. 9mm defensive loads these days are quite impressive. Expansion is not the only important thing in ballistics, but I choose the 9mm...for this week anyways.

** EDIT I cant post the link yet due to lack of posts by me because I'm new here. The link would have led you to a very nice ballistic test in a very readable fashion created by luckygunner. im sure you can find it on google.


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

There are .45 ACP JHP loads that expand to .85-1.00 inch diameter in the Lucky Gunner ballistic testing. The best 9 mm Luger JHP loads can only make .65-.74". A difference in expanded diameter of .20-.26" is much greater than the difference in diameter between unexpanded FMJ 9 mm Luger (.355") and .45 ACP (.45") which is less than .1". Yet there is wide perception that FMJ 9 mm Luger is less effective than FMJ .45 ACP in terms of wounding potential.

How often will a difference in expanded diameter of .20-.26" make a difference? Probably not very often. But to say that the expanded diameter of good .45 ACP JHP ammo is barely better than that of 9 mm Luger JHP is very, very wrong.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The three most important preparations for a gun fight,
1 Have a gun
2 know your gun well
3 Pray you never need it in a gun fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

tony pasley said:


> The three most important preparations for a gun fight,
> 1 Have a gun
> 2 know your gun well
> 3 Pray you never need it in a gun fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You may be optimistic about the effectiveness of prayer.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I didn't say it would work just trying everything to hope it is never needed


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

It also helps to bring your gun with you. :smt033


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## Cannon (May 1, 2016)

Hard to recommend what will be better for you without knowing your experience with handguns, that said I use 9mm but I have used a Ruger LCP 380 for CC when nothing else could be used.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

If you have to draw your weapon, you are no longer in "Normal circumstances".
The best weapon is the one you can hit center of mass most reliably with and can re-establish "on target" site picture the fastest.
Best hope is that your situational awareness alerts you in time to avoid a situation where you have to draw your weapon.


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## papersniper (Oct 14, 2015)

Craigh said:


> I would agree with 9mm though I carried a 45 for many years. A lot also depends on how deeply concealed you want the handgun to be. How small. For example, I have three concealed carry weapons these days. Little, bigger and bigger yet. The smaller usually has some sort of compromise over larger.
> 
> Ruger LCP II
> Smith and Wesson Shield 9mm
> ...


This is a really old quote, but I thought I ought to complement you on your intelligence and logic. You and I are surely correct.:mrgreen:


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

I recently shot the state LESB course to maintain my LEOSA status, and this very question was passed around by a group of State and local LEO's at the range. The State is going for 9MM's to replace their .40 S&W weapons. No one minded the change, believing the SIG 320 pistol and appropriate ammunition was better than the S&W M&P .40. Then one of the local Deputy Sheriff's said, I think whatever give's you the most confidence is the gun you should carry. Period. I agree.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

ShariMetoyerla said:


> I think I've made up my mind on what buy for my new ccw. Going with the 9mm. Thank you!


For most applications, I think you have made a wise choice. :smt1099


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## Illyia (Jan 12, 2017)

You know, looking at the gel tests over on Lucky Gunner...with expanding ammo the .45 ACP can deliver some seriously impressive results! And this isn't even "hot" ammo. Most SD ammo is actually loaded pretty mild and relies on advanced bullet technology to create gel-oriented TEP's and PCC's. In this regard the .45 ACP loads are quite mild compared to high-energy 9mm and .40 S&W loads...the the .40 loads are still quite mild. The point is, with but a modicum of "heat" added the .45 ACP becomes a completely different animal! Bump the .45 ACP up to 550 lb-ft of KE and it's in the same wheelhouse as the .357 Magnum, albeit with a much larger, heavier slug. Which would you prefer?

Plus, there are in fact some pretty compact .45's these days...not EVERYTHING is a steel-frame 1911! Kahr makes a polymer framed .45 ACP that barely tips the scales at 18 ounces.

Then consider the .45 GAP. It gets little to no respect on internet forums, yet it's actually a brilliant idea! Shorten a .45 ACP down until the loaded round will fit within the confines of a 9mm grip frame and slide stroke, then simply load it to the pressure needed to perfectly equal the .45 ACP. This is the design philosophy behind the GAP and it delivers. Thus, one can buy a 9mm size pistol that shoots the ballistic equivalent of the .45 ACP. But consider this. Just as the .45 ACP can be "bumped up" so too can the GAP and it takes VERY little added propellant to push a .45 ACP/GAP from 400 lb-ft of KE to 550 lb-ft!

Consider that to shoot the .45 ACP my G30 is sized for the longer stroke cartridge. In .45 GAP, the G38 is the same size as a 9mm yet delivering the SAME horsepower! A few less rounds sure, but still pretty stout loads...and hey, drop in a threaded barrel, screw on a proper compensator and one can pump up the power of the .45 GAP in a 9mm size gun every bit as well as is being done with the G30 in .45 ACP!

I worked up some 185 grain FMJ-TC handloads for my 23 ounce, 3" barrel Colt Defender that deliver 450 lb-ft of KE...that's well above all but the very hottest 9mm loads and souped up .40 loads. The alloy frame Defender cycled them perfectly.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Illyia said:


> ...consider the .45 GAP. It gets little to no respect on internet forums, yet it's actually a brilliant idea! Shorten a .45 ACP down until the loaded round will fit within the confines of a 9mm grip frame and slide stroke, then simply load it to the pressure needed to perfectly equal the .45 ACP...


Why hasn't the .45 GAP caught on?
Most probably because it fits in only a couple of only one manufacturer's pistols.
Otherwise, it has no practical use.

The .45 GAP duplicates .45 ACP ballistics, but uses a very slightly shorter case.
But pistols made for the .45 ACP fit almost everybody's hands already. Most carefully prepared 10-year-old children can successfully handle a full-size M1911.
So there's no meaningful need for the .45 GAP.
(Unless you own a particular Glock.)

And even Glock makes pistols in .45 ACP.
So where's the need for the .45 GAP?


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## KSDeputy (Jul 21, 2017)

I always prefer .45acp.


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