# "The M&P is a much more reliable pistol"



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

What say ye?

Kyle Lamb: Glock Hater? "The M&P Is A Much More Reliable Pistol." - Bearing Arms


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## lefty60 (Oct 13, 2012)

I would say that "opinions vary". Tis a never ending battle. Just say'n. :numbchuck:


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I would say opinions do vary, but facts do not.


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## rustygun (Apr 8, 2013)

More reliable? Just as reliable O.K.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Meh. Opinions are like orifices, we all have them...


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I hardly know where to start with this one. So many disagreements with this video on my part.

I have owned a lot of Glocks over the years and still own (I think, without going into my safe) eight of them. I currently own five M&P's, four of which are centrefire pistols (one is their fabulous M&P 22). I have over 4000 rounds through my M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25" and it is not as reliable as any of my Glocks. By this I am specifically referring to magazines and particularly when they get dirty. When I shoot about 5-600 rounds through it without cleaning it (rare), I will get an occasional failure to feed. I have never had this problem with any Glock I have owned.

The magazines for this M&P 9 are more difficult to load than are Glock 19 magazines and it's the combination of the follower and the magazine lip that causes this.

Don't get me wrong, the M&P is a fine pistol and I am very pleased with the ones I own. But this guy is way off base in my opinion and my experiences with both platforms. Keep you M&P clean, including the magazine, and it will serve you very well.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I agree, SouthernBoy. I love my M&P Shield, and have had a good experience with the M&P on the whole. And, like you said, if you keep them clean they are on par with any top performing pistol available. My issue is opinion vs fact. The fact is that M&P pistols are no more reliable than any other pistol on the top shelf, let alone Glocks. Are they "as" reliable? IF you maintain them, yes, but when you compare them side by side, head to head, I don't think so. 

Simple test.  Take a Glock 17 and a M&P 9 to the range. Let 50 shooters shoot the pistols side by side (25 with the Glock, 25 with the M&P) to see which pistol is more reliable. Shoot until you start having issues. I believe the Glock would win that challenge. Most people that I talk to who say M&Ps are better use reasons like "it's American". Well...yeah, but still. Then we know it is an opinion rather than fact that makes the M&P better in there mind. But facts know no boundaries. I like M&P. They look and feel good, and perform well when kept clean. Granted most shooters clean their weapons regularly and often, so this is a moot point, but to sumarily state that the M&P is "much more reliable" is, as you said, of base.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

GCBHM;

Yep, we're on the same page with this one. The M&P and the Glock have design characteristics which make each of them both unique and special. And I like both of them for both the same _and _different reasons. The M&P is a fine handgun for carry and home defense and I have carried several of mine when I am of a wont to do so. I prefer my gen4 G23 but also include all four of my centerfire M&P's in my carry stable.

While the fellow in the video attempted to come across as being objective, he didn't. And this is so hard to do when discussing the finer points of pistols. If one sticks to solid facts such as detail stripping or factory sights or similar "facts" then objectivity rules. But most of the other points the man tried to present were really just his opinions.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

And there is nothing wrong with having an opinion.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

We all voice ours (opinion) regularly... without opinions there would cease to be a need for interesting and thought provoking discussions.


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## NGIB (Jun 28, 2008)

Opinions are fine, it's when an opinion is stated as absolute fact that the lines get blurry...


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Right...I have absolutely no problems with this guy liking and thinking the M&P is a better gun. There are lots of variants that go into why we think what we think about these things, and that's why they make so many types. But the fact is that the M&P really is not more reliable. It is on par with reliability, in my opinion, when kept clean. But then again, sometimes we just like to argue about things. Nothing wrong with that...it's through that argument that ideas are born and issues hammered out.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

When I was trying to decide between Springfield XD and Glock, I looked at the 'torture' tests that were performed by each, and came to the conclusion that they carried it to the point of ridiculousness, apparently trying to impress the military. The published test of the XD appeared to show it as being at least as 'tough' as the Glock, but that didn't really matter to me because I would never treat either in such a vile manner. In the end, I did choose the XD because I prefer the slightly 'squarer' grip angle, and it just felt better to me. But I do own one Glock, a G20 10mm that I carry in the woods, and I shoot it well and don't baby it at all - it suits me perfectly for what I wanted it for. I think the Glock has been and will continue to be the standard others are judged by, and the durability of its finish is amazing. But the torture tests simply aren't that relevant for the average person. If I did want something in the M&P family (maybe someday), I would not care much where it fit on the torture test scale, but rather whether it was reliable and accurate enough (with some to spare) for the way I intended to use it. 

If I was selecting a sidearm for the military, sure, I would want it endurance tested and compared with the results of the best performers in that category. But, the M&P is obviously reliable and accurate, since it has been around long enough to satisfy a lot of experienced handgun shooters and S&W has continued to produce it and branch out with more purchase options and improvements for it.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I think the any of the guns mentioned in this thread are excellent offerings from HK to Springfield. All would serve the military well, and surely the avg citizen needing a defense pistol. I actually really like the M&Ps. They are incredibly good looking guns and perform well beyond the capabilities that any of us will use it for. I think we all agree on that. Bisley, I think you're right as well wrt the Glock being the standard. To be honest, I was not originally a Glock fan. Avoided them for years for all the typical reasons, but once I took an honest, objective look at the gun, I became a fan. They are tough, and they just work, which is why I think they are the standard all others are are trying to beat. Certainly S&W came up with a fine pistol. Had HK not produced the VP9 when it did, I was very likely going to buy the M&P9. I will eventually buy one, but I'd already owned one and wanted to give the VP9 a look. 

As it turns out, I am really impressed with the VP9. I wasn't sure I would replace my Glock 19 as my EDC, but after carrying the VP9 for a solid month, and shooting it side by side with my Glock 19 and CZ75, I'm sold on it. I'm as accurate with the VP9 as I am the CZ, and can shoot it as fast as I can the Glock. I'll never get rid of that Glock 19, but the VP9 has truly impressed me. It is superior to any striker fire pistol I've handled in terms of ergonomics, and the factory trigger is simply a work of art (for a factory trigger), but I still would not say the VP9 is a much more reliable pistol than the Glock. Push come to shove, I'd pick the Glock over any gun I own for any given situation if I was forced to pick only one.


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## mooosie (Aug 31, 2014)

I like the FNH USA don't know if it is better than anything else I just like them


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

I personally have sold all of my Glocks except a Glock 34 that I like.

I do not believe that Glock has kept up with the changes that other manufactures have made to improve their guns in the past 5 to 10 years.

S&W - Springfield - Rugr - Sig Sauer - HK - FN have all made changes that have vastly improved their weapons.

Glocks not so much - Glock Gen 4 - to little to late IMHO

:smt1099


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I don't think Glock needed to do a whole lot to improve their weapons. I mean, everyone is still trying to catch Glock, and although there are a lot of great guns out there that compete with Glock, I still believe Glock sets the standard for striker fire pistols. 

I carry the VP9, btw, and the only Glock I own at this point is the Glock 42.


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## Sgt45 (Jun 8, 2012)

Accuracy is my problem with M&P's. My 9 and 9c both shoot great out to about 12-15 yards then the accuracy falls through the floor. I'm still trying to figure out what is going on. Glocks not so much, I shoot them better than the M&P's. I shoot my 1911's even better.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

My M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25" barrel (bought four years ago) is one fine shooting gun and very accurate. It has well over 4,000 rounds through it and as long as I keep the magazines clean, it functions flawlessly.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't doubt that the M&P is a great gun.I don't own one nor have I shot one. On the other hand, I have owned and shot five different Glocks of different calibers and models. I can't remember any reliability issues with any one of them. They were all remarkably accurate. The only one I had a complaint with was a 22C. I had never shot the gun after dark before and when I did it was with P+ ammo. the flames coming out of the compensator ports was like a camera flash in my eyes. Anyway, if the M&P is better than a Glock then I think I had better own one or two maybe?
Goldwing


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

goldwing said:


> I don't doubt that the M&P is a great gun.I don't own one nor have I shot one. On the other hand, I have owned and shot five different Glocks of different calibers and models. I can't remember any reliability issues with any one of them. They were all remarkably accurate. The only one I had a complaint with was a 22C. I had never shot the gun after dark before and when I did it was with P+ ammo. the flames coming out of the compensator ports was like a camera flash in my eyes. *Anyway, if the M&P is better than a Glock then I think I had better own one or two maybe?*
> Goldwing


If you're really concerned about this and need any more info, I'm here to help you. I have a fair amount of experience with both platforms so use me if you wish.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

SouthernBoy said:


> If you're really concerned about this and need any more info, I'm here to help you. I have a fair amount of experience with both platforms so use me if you wish.


To be honest, I just acquired a G19 so that niche is filled for a while. Given the chance though I would like to try out a Smith M&P. I've loved every S&W that I have owned so I would expect it to be good.
Goldwing


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## jdw68 (Nov 5, 2011)

None of my Glocks have failed to fire yet.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

lefty60 said:


> I would say that "opinions vary". Tis a never ending battle. Just say'n. :numbchuck:


Isn't that the truth.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok gentlemen let's retreat to neutral corners on this small matter of Kyle Lambs opinion on two fine weapons. I promise that because I shelled out some hard earned cash to purchase one or the other of them, then that is the one that is obviously the best. It is human nature to want to be right, to know that you got the best quality for the best price. I bet that any one of us that was in a predicament wouldn't turn either gun down if it was needed right now. My intentions are to own an M&P in the near future, not to compete with my Glocks but maybe to complement my little arsenal.
Goldwing


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

goldwing said:


> Ok gentlemen let's retreat to neutral corners on this small matter of Kyle Lambs opinion on two fine weapons. I promise that because I shelled out some hard earned cash to purchase one or the other of them, then that is the one that is obviously the best. It is human nature to want to be right, to know that you got the best quality for the best price. I bet that any one of us that was in a predicament wouldn't turn either gun down if it was needed right now. My intentions are to own an M&P in the near future, not to compete with my Glocks but maybe to complement my little arsenal.
> Goldwing


Huh?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> Huh?


I'm just saying that opinions are subjective and it is a waste of time debating ad nauseam. There is no certain way to end the argument. The answer cannot be had with the resources that we have here. If Lamb is the big authority in one mans opinion, then I am dead certain that someone else is more qualified to render judgement in another mans opinion. Maybe SouthernBoy would like to chime in. I get the impression that he owns and possibly carries both. That would carry more weight with me than someone with an obvious bias toward the M&P.
Goldwing


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I'm lost. It's a discussion forum and ppl are discussing. What's the problem?


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

No problem. Discuss away!


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## BADOS45 (Jul 10, 2014)

GCBHM said:


> What say ye?
> 
> Kyle Lamb: Glock Hater? "The M&P Is A Much More Reliable Pistol." - Bearing Arms


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## dondavis3 (Aug 2, 2009)

+1 goldwing - now that's my kind of thinking - buy 2 :anim_lol::anim_lol::anim_lol:

:smt1099


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

goldwing said:


> I'm just saying that opinions are subjective and it is a waste of time debating ad nauseam. There is no certain way to end the argument. The answer cannot be had with the resources that we have here. If Lamb is the big authority in one mans opinion, then I am dead certain that someone else is more qualified to render judgement in another mans opinion. Maybe SouthernBoy would like to chime in. I get the impression that he owns and possibly carries both. That would carry more weight with me than someone with an obvious bias toward the M&P.
> Goldwing


BTW, GW, the SB has already chimed in. To be honest, I didn't post this thread in hopes that it would start an argument; however, there are always a few who do nothing but come to chide and do silly drive-by posts thinking they're clever. To me, that is a little annoying b/c it serves no purpose. Giving opinions is one thing, but being ridiculous like that guy Water-Man, for absolutely no reason but to be annoying...it is, well...ridiculous.

For the most part, people are just conversing here, giving their opinions and just talking...which is what the intent was in posting this. If I see someone flaming or trolling, I will usually address it, which is what you may have mistaken as "arguing". It's not arguing as much as it is an attempt to let those who do troll to knock it off. It's silly.


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## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

And for the record, I really like the M&P line of handguns. I haven't checked out any of the new revolvers, but the pistols are very good guns, and extremely cost effective compared to Glock. Actually, at my LGS, one can get the standard M&P 9 new for less than $500, which is about $40-$60 less than a new Glock Gen 4 9mm/.40. Not bad at all. I think they are a great value! I just don't think they are "much" more reliable than any other quality pistol available. Definitely in par with Glock, SA, HK & Sigs striker fire guns, Walther...you name it, but "much" more so? Nah...but I'd carry one all day long and not think twice about it. I'd really be ok if any of you guys wanted to "loan" one of yours to me! ;-)


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

You guys keep this up you're going g to end up on Santa's naughty list.


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