# Airgun Pistol for Practice?



## jeffegg2

I just bought a Daisy 15xt co2 pistol for practicing at home. 

I just wanted something to practice when I'm not able to go to the range.

Does anyone else do this?


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## Overkill0084

There is another recent thread on this. It never really took off, but then this a quiet sort of forum.

http://www.handgunforum.net/new-handguns-area/26310-air-guns-practice.html


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## smlranger

jeffegg2 said:


> I just bought a Daisy 15xt co2 pistol for practicing at home.
> 
> I just wanted something to practice when I'm not able to go to the range.
> 
> Does anyone else do this?


Yepper. I got a Umarex Colt Defender BB pistol and then a Crosman Colt Python pellet pistol. I have mounted a red dot on the Python. I have set up an inside 'range' in the basement and built a pellet trap. I also made an outdoor target gizmo that includes metal spinners, the little clay discs from Daisey, and multiple paper targets. Oh, I also plink the soda cans before they go into the recycle bin.

It's fun and the air pistols mimic the feel and action of my real guns fairly well. Lets me play when I can't go to the range.

I think my next shooting 'addiction' may be reloading. My wife rolls her eyes whenever she sees me looking in my Cabela's shooting catalog now.


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## cooper623

*airgun for pistol practice*

You have a good idea there. I knew a guy who was one of Merrill's marauder's and shot on the olympic pistol team for a while and he had an airgun range in his basement that he practiced on daily. This guy was a badass and if it works for him I'm sure you'll see good results.


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## Packard

Yes. I have an Olympic style 10 meter competition pistol. It is good for working on holding a stead sight picture. It is not good for trigger control because the trigger action is much better than anything you might encounter in an actual handgun. (About 1 pound pull, and maybe 1/8" travel.)

I have a "double action" CO2 airgun; a replica of a Walther. The trigger pull is very, very heavy and very, very gritty. It is also much longer than a standard pistol. So if you can master the trigger pull on this baby then you can handle the trigger pull on any weapon.

But neither will condition you to deal with recoil and noise. For that you need to shoot real guns.

This is the 10 meter gun: http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-match-air-pistol.shtml

This is the Walther look alike: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Walther_PPQ_P99_Q_CO2_pistol/2447


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## Steve M1911A1

I gotta disagree, if only in a very small degree, with *Packard*.
Trigger practice is trigger practice. You can never get enough of it.
But Packard is correct that, to practice practical trigger control, neither an Olympics-style 10-meter nor a gritty DA-replica air gun is appropriate. He is also correct that a practical shooter needs recoil-control practice too.
But that doesn't mean that you can't find an appropriate air pistol (or rifle, for that matter) with which to practice trigger control, and _only_ trigger control, while you're someplace where "real" shooting is not allowed.

Just to be perfectly clear, I agree with Packard that a defensive shooter needs realistic and complete practice, including trigger control, sight control, and recoil control.
I, myself, would not use an air pistol for this practice.
However, I can't shoot every day. I do dry-fire. Jean dry-fires.
And I know that value can be found in air-gun practice, _as long as it's not the only practice mode_.


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## Packard

The advantage of working trigger control with a long gritty heavy trigger like the one on my airgun is that you are training yourself to watch the front sight and keep it on the target. By comparison when shooting a decent live fire gun, maintaining the sight picture will be easy. Also the impending "boom" will not be there for the air gun and it allows you to practice without that distraction.

I can only get to the range once or twice a week. I find that I lose my concentration if I shoot much over 50 rounds, so long sessions don't do me much good.

On the other hand I can get to my basement almost any time I wish. Shooting 50 rounds a night is cheap and I get done in less time than it would take me to drive to the range.

It is not a substitute for live fire. And practice ammo is not a substitute for premium ammo (unless they have the same bullet weight and are loaded to the same pressures).

But as a cost-effective, time-effective way to improve your overall shooting, not bad. Also you might find that competitive shooting in the 10 meter Olympic style is fun. The IZH Baikal is capable of putting 10 rounds in a single hole no larger than .250" (I can't do that--not even from a sand bag--but there are some that can and they shoot one handed!). I have never come across a live fire hand gun that had as good a trigger and was as accurate as that airgun. If you have a bigger budget you can do better.

But it costs about 1¢ per round--50¢ a night. And it keeps me out of bars (which would no doubt cost more and would do little to improve my shooting.)


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## ozzy

I have a Crosman 1377 with an aftermarket breech and a reddot scope on it. I only practice on flying rats.


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## Holly

Hehehe... I've never done this, so I won't knock it, but it makes me think of my teenage brother-in-law... Hehehe... Airguns... *sigh*


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## Gunners_Mate

I've thought of using airsoft guns for training. I know they have gas powered reciprocating replica guns that weigh mostly the same, but I haven't gotten my hands on them to see what the trigger, magazine, or actual recoil of these guns feel like. on paper it sounds like a great tactical scenario training tool, simulating real life conditions with non-lethal guns. The military frequently uses sim-rounds, this is the same concept minus the expensive rounds, guns, and PPE. ansi 87 sun glasses, a 99 dollar gun (via cheaper than dirt) and cheap biodegradable plastic bb's? easy day, depending on the simulation firearm and it's ability to simulate an actual firearm


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

i think this is a wonderful idea, IF your daily carry weapon is also an airgun!


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## Holly

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> i think this is a wonderful idea, IF your daily carry weapon is also an airgun!


Don't make me giggle! I'm supposed to be logging OFF to make dinner...


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## Cat

Both pistols,Are what we use at are range to teach are juniors with. P22 Target pistols & Air arms match pistols.

Here is one of the best to buy from
Champion's Choice - Home Page


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## Packard

Anyone who has held his aim for more than five seconds probably will notice an increasing movement of the front sights.

When you first start shooting that movement starts far earlier than five seconds. That is because you are using both voluntary and involuntary muscles to aim the gun.

You mentally tell your muscles "aim at the target and hold steady" and your voluntary muscles attempt to do just that. But they need the assistance of the involuntary muscles and those muscles must learn how to work together to create the steady hold.

From a shooting point of view, that is probably the most important thing you will gain from shooting pellet guns.

You will also learn to concentrate on the front sights.

Keep in mind that a good quality pellet gun is more accurate than most gun powder powered hand guns.

I have a Baikal target airgun. It is a low end 10 meter competition model. The gun is capable of putting 10 rounds at 33 feet through a single hole of less than .250" (using .177 pellets). There are better weapons that can do better. All of them easily outshoot my capabilities.

But the point is that if you are able to hit the bulls eye on a 10 meter target (from ten meters) you have mastered the sight picture and you've mastered the practice of keeping your attention on the front sights, and you've conditioned your involuntary muscles to work in coordination with your voluntary muscles.

And you've done this for approximately $0.01 per shot. And you can practice every day in your basement.

I would guess that most members here:

1. Would benefit from additional shooting time
2. Cannot get to the range every night of the week
3. Have budget constraints that limit the total number of rounds that they can shoot.

Additionally, some people totally get off on the noise and recoil and the excitement associated with shooting live ammo. Those things can be a distraction when it comes to working on your sight picture aiming skills.

I think that an airgun is a fine way to improve your shooting skills. I don't really think it is necessary to have the gun match your current weapon or to have a semblence of recoil. It does have to be accurate so that you can judge your improved skills. That is why bb guns would not meet my criteria. The bbs fly all over the place and you cannot learn anything useful from them.

This is a Baikal 10 meter pistol: http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-match-air-pistol.shtml

They don't list the weight in the specs so I just weighed mine: Two pounds, ten ounces (42 ounces, about the same weight as an all steel, full-sized 1911)


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

i have been thinking about buying one of them water gun carnival games where you shoot water into the clowns mouth to expand a balloon on its head.

it has a front blade sight at the tip of the "ray gun" barrel and will give me a lot more practice time for like when i aim my sig..... also it has a trigger too, much like my other guns..... and the noise of the balloon popping will remind me of the sound of a live round (i will make sure i simulate recoil too)...... 

i live near the rogue river so i have all the water i need.... balloons will not cost nearly as much as live rounds and if i step way way back i can really work on accuracy. the entire carnival game is heavy and hard to conceal so when i am using a real gun it will be much easier.....

yep, i am in full training mode now!


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## Cat

Packard are you a 4-H - Competition shooter.? So if yes --- What is your scores in Prone & Sitting & 
Standing. If it's cool with you.I like to know what your average is. My 8 yr old is now doing 105-145.Her best is 154.But I tell her, If she wont's to get out of juniors,And be a 4-H shooter. She need to hit 250's and above. But she still using a sling. But she will get there,She loves the sport to much. Best sport in the world to me..:smt033PS.Or are you in (JROTC)










Packard said:


> Anyone who has held his aim for more than five seconds probably will notice an increasing movement of the front sights.
> 
> When you first start shooting that movement starts far earlier than five seconds. That is because you are using both voluntary and involuntary muscles to aim the gun.
> 
> You mentally tell your muscles "aim at the target and hold steady" and your voluntary muscles attempt to do just that. But they need the assistance of the involuntary muscles and those muscles must learn how to work together to create the steady hold.
> 
> From a shooting point of view, that is probably the most important thing you will gain from shooting pellet guns.
> 
> You will also learn to concentrate on the front sights.
> 
> Keep in mind that a good quality pellet gun is more accurate than most gun powder powered hand guns.
> 
> I have a Baikal target airgun. It is a low end 10 meter competition model. The gun is capable of putting 10 rounds at 33 feet through a single hole of less than .250" (using .177 pellets). There are better weapons that can do better. All of them easily outshoot my capabilities.
> 
> But the point is that if you are able to hit the bulls eye on a 10 meter target (from ten meters) you have mastered the sight picture and you've mastered the practice of keeping your attention on the front sights, and you've conditioned your involuntary muscles to work in coordination with your voluntary muscles.
> 
> And you've done this for approximately $0.01 per shot. And you can practice every day in your basement.
> 
> I would guess that most members here:
> 
> 1. Would benefit from additional shooting time
> 2. Cannot get to the range every night of the week
> 3. Have budget constraints that limit the total number of rounds that they can shoot.
> 
> Additionally, some people totally get off on the noise and recoil and the excitement associated with shooting live ammo. Those things can be a distraction when it comes to working on your sight picture aiming skills.
> 
> I think that an airgun is a fine way to improve your shooting skills. I don't really think it is necessary to have the gun match your current weapon or to have a semblence of recoil. It does have to be accurate so that you can judge your improved skills. That is why bb guns would not meet my criteria. The bbs fly all over the place and you cannot learn anything useful from them.
> 
> This is a Baikal 10 meter pistol: IZH-Baikal IZH 46M Match Pistol. Air guns - PyramydAir.com
> 
> They don't list the weight in the specs so I just weighed mine: Two pounds, ten ounces (42 ounces, about the same weight as an all steel, full-sized 1911)


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## Steve M1911A1

*Packard*;
Self-defense pistol shooting is not about accuracy, and only a little about trigger control.
Once you have become proficient at center-of-mass hits at up to 20 yards, your time is better spent practicing tactics and quick, short-range, multiple-target strings.

The kind of accuracy you enjoy with your air-pistol may even cause your self-defense skills to atrophy through misapplied practice time.
Accurate shooting is a game. It is an enjoyable game, indeed, but still a game.
The defensive pistol shooter needs to separate his recreational-shooting (game) time from his deadly-serious-shooting (maybe save your life) time.
The two endeavors should not be mixed, because the two experiences are not transitive.

To a great extent, even Airsoft practice is a recreational game, and many of its skills and experiences are not transferable to save-your-life shooting.
Force-on-Force practice requires Airsoft guns and protective equipment, but force-on-force practice is only about tactics, not about shooting.
Shooting skills learned shooting an Airsoft gun are not transferable to the act of shooting the real thing.


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## crescentstar69

I don't think it's a bad idea. It would help keep your skills sharp. Not all of us can get to the range as frequently as we would like.


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## Gunners_Mate

eh, I mostly only think it's a good idea for target non-target identification with real people instead of 2 dimensional metal or paper targets, as well as reload under stress and gear familiarization. 

there's something about standing in a lane at a gun range shooting at a paper target with all sorts of rules about utilizing holsters and loading that feels restrictive.. but then again maybe thats just me..


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## Holly

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> i have been thinking about buying one of them water gun carnival games where you shoot water into the clowns mouth to expand a balloon on its head.


Totally off topic, I kick *ss at that game!


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Holly said:


> Totally off topic, I kick *ss at that game!


then you are totally prepared for any eventuality.... awesome training!


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## Holly

TedDeBearFrmHell said:


> then you are totally prepared for any eventuality.... awesome training!


I know, right?! I play once a year and everything.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell

Holly said:


> I know, right?! I play once a year and everything.


right after having a deep fried twinkie


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## Steve M1911A1

YUM!
Seriously, YUM!
But only if covered in a chocolate crust.
:smt078


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