# X-carved bullets



## DirtyHarryGenX

I only have one question,does carving an X on the end of your bullet really have any effect at all?


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## 1jimmy

DirtyHarryGenX said:


> I only have one question,does carving an X on the end of your bullet really have any effect at all?


huh? can you elaborate?


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## zhurdan

DirtyHarryGenX said:


> I only have one question,does carving an X on the end of your bullet really have any effect at all?


Yes. It gives the jury a reason to think you're a nut job.

Other than that, no. Modern bullet design far supersedes any home made "bullet cuts". Stick to factory ammo for a defensive gun.


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## AirForceShooter

doesn't do a thing.
Neither does putting garlic in a hollow point.

AFS


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## kg333

AirForceShooter said:


> doesn't do a thing.
> Neither does putting garlic in a hollow point.
> 
> AFS


But, but, but...the vampires! I suppose next you'll be telling me to get rid of my silver bullets?

KG


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## AirForceShooter

Grasshopper:
Silver bullets are for werewolves not vampires.

Get out the survival guide and reread it 

AFS
.


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## DanP_from_AZ

DirtyHarryGenX said:


> I only have one question,does carving an X on the end of your bullet really have any effect at all?


No. But here is something that works for your Judge. MUCH cheaper than the "new" SD .410 loads.

Take a standard .410 birdshot round. Any pellet size will do, it makes no difference. But, it must be a "cardboard" shell. You know, a cheap "target" load.
Take a really sharp knife.
Carefully cut a groove totally around the circumference, just forward of the brass.
Make it deep. If powder spills out, you cut too deep. Discard this shell and try again.

Find an old-fashioned junkyard. You know, where there are discarded appliances before they bulldoze them under.
Carefully line up about four to six 'frig's in a row.

1. Load your Judge with your "new cut shotshell".
2. Eye and hearing protection is recommended.
3. Fire.

Now you know that refridgerators offer no protection against a bullet. None.
There is a "certain person" who has tried this in a cheap break-action single-shot .410. Several times. Except "he" skipped step 2.

This is absolutely guaranteed to work on zombies, werewolves, and vampires. No silver or garlic is needed. :smt1099


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## ozzy

DanP_from_AZ said:


> No. But here is something that works for your Judge. MUCH cheaper than the "new" SD .410 loads.
> 
> Take a standard .410 birdshot round. Any pellet size will do, it makes no difference. But, it must be a "cardboard" shell. You know, a cheap "target" load.
> Take a really sharp knife.
> Carefully cut a groove totally around the circumference, just forward of the brass.
> Make it deep. If powder spills out, you cut too deep. Discard this shell and try again.
> 
> Find an old-fashioned junkyard. You know, where there are discarded appliances before they bulldoze them under.
> Carefully line up about four to six 'frig's in a row.
> 
> 1. Load your Judge with your "new cut shotshell".
> 2. Eye and hearing protection is recommended.
> 3. Fire.
> 
> Now you know that refridgerators offer no protection against a bullet. None.
> There is a "certain person" who has tried this in a cheap break-action single-shot .410. Several times. Except "he" skipped step 2.
> 
> This is absolutely guaranteed to work on zombies, werewolves, and vampires. No silver or garlic is needed. :smt1099


Just don't use it for self defense,the prosecutor will call it a evil load you designed to kill with. Cut shell are fun to play with.


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## denner

The Box O' Truth #32 - Dum-Dum Bullets and the Box O'Truth - Page 1

Grasshopper, if you google "cutting x in lead bullets" you will have more answer than you desire.


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## DirtyHarryGenX

I actually watched a video on how to make a cut shell,but it never came to mind for my judge.I'll have to make some,and try them out.I don't see why shooting someone with such a shell would be a problem,if they were inside my home.They even talk about "terminal performance" on the box of .410 DPX shells I have.I will google the carved bullets


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## DanP_from_AZ

DirtyHarryGenX said:


> I actually watched a video on how to make a cut shell,but it never came to mind for my judge.I'll have to make some,and try them out.I don't see why shooting someone with such a shell would be a problem,if they were inside my home.They even talk about "terminal performance" on the box of .410 DPX shells I have.I will google the carved bullets


*DON'T USE A CUT SHELL IN A JUDGE ! ! !*

Think about it. The pressure rise and peak pressure is WAY over "SAMMI" design limits. Even higher than "proof" load testing.
It is not wise to be "testing" to destructive limits. Especially holding the gun, and nothing between the gun and your face and chest but your arms.

Take a .410 shell. Try pushing it the "wrong way" down the gun barrel. Now think of trying to force that out from the chamber end at 1135 feet/second. Not good.
The old and cheap single-shot break-action .410 is a *COMPLETELY *different design that allowed stupid people to survive stupid tricks like this one.

Now look at how little metal thickness is in a Judge cylinder at its thinnest point. I don't know about Judge design. But, all of my double-action revolvers have a
"step-down" in diameter from the cartridge diameter to the bullet diameter. If the Judge has this step, this is going to build over-pressure right at the git-go.

Now look at the cylinder/barrel gap. Normally there is only "fire" from behind the bullet as it crossesthis gap. With the extra pressure, what will happen here ?

Now look at the forcing cone on the barrel side. Flop open the cylinder, and place a shell at the forcing cone. You REALLY do NOT want to give that "cut shell"
chunk a running start across that gap to the cone.

Did I mention before *DON'T USE A CUT SHELL IN A JUDGE ! ! !* ? ? ?


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## denner

The Judge - YouTube


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## ozzy

DirtyHarryGenX said:


> I actually watched a video on how to make a cut shell,but it never came to mind for my judge.I'll have to make some,and try them out.I don't see why shooting someone with such a shell would be a problem,if they were inside my home.They even talk about "terminal performance" on the box of .410 DPX shells I have.I will google the carved bullets


NON FACTORY LOAD! A prosecutor would have your ass no matter the situation. I've shot cut loads for years but wouldn't carry them.


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## DirtyHarryGenX

Thanks for the info,I did consider making some,but it didn't even seem safe to me,just because the whole shell detaches,and travels out the barrel.The pressure I did not know about.What if I kill an intruder with a 12 gauge shell loaded with small nails and fish hooks?I do load my own.But,hand loaded ammo isn't a factory load either,yet it's legit.I can usually fit 13 dimes in one shell


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## hud35500

What is up with the need to screw with things ? You can buy dozens of different loads that are designed by professionals to mushroom or fragment, but there's alway some Rambo type who thinks he can do it better in his garage. How about the "Jaws" load, where Roy Scheider put poison in a hollow point, then covered it with wax. By all means though, go ahead and make your "alterations", you will pay the price in court when you use it on someone. If you think it's different when you use for HD, you are in for a big surprise ? Then the rest of us will suffer the consequences as well.


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## DirtyHarryGenX

But I mean,if someone comes inside my house,I could kill them with a spiked bat,so I don't see why it would matter what kind of ammo I use.I'd only believe that was murder if I actually read something official,straight from the code,of state or federal law.I mean,Firequest sells all kinds of bizarre shells,loaded with tacks,chains,exploding slugs,incendiary slugs,bolo rounds etc. One thing I can do by shooting someone with a shell containing fish hooks,for instance,is give the surgeons a challenge.I would think it would be difficult to remove treble hooks from bone,and broken glass,wouldn't even show up on an X-ray,plus they couldn't remove it all anyway,it would cause too much tissue destruction.I did research bullets with an X carved into them,they do fragment,but you lose accuracy.Also I read cut bullets may tumble,and whirl,making a nastier wound.I just made 5 .45 Colts with Xs carved.I already have some made in .44 magnum.But,if someone breaks in,the 12 gauge is loaded with buckshot,the judge is loaded with DPX shells,and the .44 is loaded with Buffalo Bore +P+,so none of my homemade stuff will even come into use.Hell,even if I got charged,it still wouldn't make the guy/girl's day any better,to have a torso full of keys and phosphoric acid.Plus,if someone honks at me in traffic,it doesn't matter if I shoot them with a JHP,or a lead bullet carved to a point,legally,it would all be the same.


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## hud35500

As an LEO with 23 yrs experience including shooting review boards and court cases, I can tell you that a prosecting attorney will have a field day with a modified firearm or ammunition. Factory stock firarms and factory manufactured ammo, anything else will put you in the crosshairs like you would not believe. And remember, the general public is not sympathetic to gun owners, especially if the prosecution paints you as a bloodthirsty gun nut who enhanced their gear or used more force than deemed neccessary to kill an attacker. Do yourself a favor and read anything by Massad Ayoob. His expert witness cases should make a believer out of anyone. Your logic concerning a JHP and a hand carved bullet is the same as shooting the bad guy outside, then dragging the body in the house. If you shoot someone, even if it's justified, with altered ammo, they will nail you to a cross. I've seen it happen. Unload on a baddie with a .44 +P+ and take out the innocent bystander behind your target, you will lose everthing. The law allows you to defend yourself when you fear for your life, but there are limits. It does not allow you to cut an intruder in half with a belt fed .50 cal or melt him with incendiary shotgun ammo. A jury would view that as "cruel and unusual". That is an extreme example, but I hope you see what I'm getting at. There was a time when a shotgun loaded with rock salt was an acceptable defense weapon. Use that combo now and you will do time. Not trying to be a d***, just trying to educate. We gun owners have to do it clean and by the book.


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## DirtyHarryGenX

Well,if it's true it's true,thanks for the info,being you do know about the law.I wasn't gonna swallow it till somebody had something legit to say.So I probably won't shoot anyone outside with one of my dragon's breath shells now.That was my go to 12 gauge load for outdoor encounters.Hell,youcan't even get in a mutual fight anymore without going to jail.They're doing their best to keep people from owning guns anyway,more and more questions on the forms,domestic violence,involuntart commitment to a mental institution,no dishonorable discharge from the military,of course felonies,all those have been there awhile.But I've seen the newer stuff like no stalking or harrassment,can't have spent more than 30 days in a mental institution,and even no violent crimes,including simple assault,anybody can get that one easy,just by getting in a fight.They'll have everybody singled out,and it will be like the UK here soon enough,no guns.They should allow me to use whatever I want on a home invader,but it seems if I use anything homemade he'll go to Hell,and I'll go to jail.So I'll be a good boy and use a silvertip hollowpoint,that way he'll still be carried by six,and I won't be judged by twelve.I've always wanted to legally shoot someone with an incendiary,but I guess I'll just keep those put away for WW3....


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## hud35500

Unfortunately this is the world we live in. We are allowing our rights to be stripped away. I just read read how the Homeland Security Dept. is training people to run away from a threat before defending yourself. They feel that using a firearm for defense is not acceptable. This is the liberal mentality that is corrupting everything the founding fathers created. We should run away or beg for mercy when threatened. That is not me, nor will it ever be. There are enough of us out there to stop the insanity, but we have to fight for it 24 hrs a day. You hit the nail on the head about the UK. 

BTW, I've shot some Dragon's breath thru my 870. Serious fun, but I'm saving mine for the "zombie apocalypse" !


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## ozzy

PM from DirtyHarryGenX: The game warden didn't care,go shove a red-hot coat hanger up your pee hole slick. 


WTF! Go play some nintendo.


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## ozzy

hud35500 said:


> As an LEO with 23 yrs experience including shooting review boards and court cases, I can tell you that a prosecting attorney will have a field day with a modified firearm or ammunition. Factory stock firarms and factory manufactured ammo, anything else will put you in the crosshairs like you would not believe. And remember, the general public is not sympathetic to gun owners, especially if the prosecution paints you as a bloodthirsty gun nut who enhanced their gear or used more force than deemed neccessary to kill an attacker. Do yourself a favor and read anything by Massad Ayoob. His expert witness cases should make a believer out of anyone. Your logic concerning a JHP and a hand carved bullet is the same as shooting the bad guy outside, then dragging the body in the house. If you shoot someone, even if it's justified, with altered ammo, they will nail you to a cross. I've seen it happen. Unload on a baddie with a .44 +P+ and take out the innocent bystander behind your target, you will lose everthing. The law allows you to defend yourself when you fear for your life, but there are limits. It does not allow you to cut an intruder in half with a belt fed .50 cal or melt him with incendiary shotgun ammo. A jury would view that as "cruel and unusual". That is an extreme example, but I hope you see what I'm getting at. There was a time when a shotgun loaded with rock salt was an acceptable defense weapon. Use that combo now and you will do time. Not trying to be a d***, just trying to educate. We gun owners have to do it clean and by the book.


Exactly a CCW is to stop a threat, period.


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## ozzy

DirtyHarryGenX said:


> Well,if it's true it's true,thanks for the info,being you do know about the law.I wasn't gonna swallow it till somebody had something legit to say.So I probably won't shoot anyone outside with one of my dragon's breath shells now.That was my go to 12 gauge load for outdoor encounters.Hell,youcan't even get in a mutual fight anymore without going to jail.They're doing their best to keep people from owning guns anyway,more and more questions on the forms,domestic violence,involuntart commitment to a mental institution,no dishonorable discharge from the military,of course felonies,all those have been there awhile.But I've seen the newer stuff like no stalking or harrassment,can't have spent more than 30 days in a mental institution,and even no violent crimes,including simple assault,anybody can get that one easy,just by getting in a fight.They'll have everybody singled out,and it will be like the UK here soon enough,no guns.They should allow me to use whatever I want on a home invader,but it seems if I use anything homemade he'll go to Hell,and I'll go to jail.So I'll be a good boy and use a silvertip hollowpoint,that way he'll still be carried by six,and I won't be judged by twelve.I've always wanted to legally shoot someone with an incendiary,but I guess I'll just keep those put away for WW3....


You need to check yourself in with the state mental hospital. You have issues!


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## DirtyHarryGenX

I was gonna check in,but the jellyfish that lives in the wall said I'm fine


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