# Help this noob pick a gun.



## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

Hi, 

So, 38 yo guy with 18 years in active duty Army. I've shot M16 plenty. I only shot the Army's service M9 once like 14 or so years ago. I don't have enough rank for it to be my issued weapon. 

Anyway, that is my background. I decided just recently that I am suddenly interested in sport shooting*for skill improvement and fun, not for hunting/defense carrying. I took a concealed carry course and have applied for my permit. I live in VA which is quite open about gun ownership and such. 

So, Here is my problem. I am very interested in buying a gun but trying to not be impulsive. I have been trolling around this and other forums for a few weeks now and learned that I need to go rent a few guns to size them up for me. 

I am also blind in right eye and right handed. I fire my M16 lefty. I grabbed the 9M at the carry class naturally with my right, so I fired it right handed. I figure with all of my complications, vision and whatnot that I need an ambidextrious weapon so that I can do whatever feels comfortable. 

What I am looking for is a both sided slide release, either both side or swappable mag release. 
I am going to our indoor range on Saturday, maybe Friday evening too to try out a few guns. 
I am not really concerned with all day carry because I can't carry on post or in uniform. I want the option to carry if and when I feel like it, hence the CCP application. 
Mostly, I want something fun to shoot that can give me the defensive feel when I want it. I know I do not want a huge , like full size 45 because I might want to wear it out of the house at some point. 

My short list is 
the S&W M&P line.... bonus! not the shield because SW is giving 50$ rebate for military but not on the shield version. 
Sig Sauer P320... I shot a Sig during my class, not sure which one because I rented it and didn't pay attention to which model. I focused on keeping it in the right direction. LOL
HK line.... not sure which yet. 
I also like some of the Walthers.

I intend on putting my hands on a glock and maybe shooting it but I am not really fond of them based on the stuff I read. Just not really much of a fan. Shooting it might change that. 

I plan to shoot a few guns and want to feel the 45, for maybe getting a 45c or whatever. I also want to shoot the 357. I am not looking for a pocket gun so 380s are out for me. Just not interested. So are the 22LRs. 

Cost is not a huge concern. It is a factor but I am more interested in bang for my buck than rubbing some pennies together. 

So what do you guys think? Thanks in advance.


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## MoMan (Dec 27, 2010)

Welcome, and Thank you for your service!

My choices would probably be (in no particular order, just based on my personal experience with each):
Glock 19, Gen 4 (my current daily CC handgun)
Sig P226 (9mm)
Sig P229 (40sw, quickly becoming one of my favorites even though I've owned it for a "few" years)
S&W M&P series
Ruger SP101 (357 revolver)

There are others but I think this might be a good starting point. I'm sure there will be others along soon with their input!
Good luck on your quest and keep us posted on yout search.

MO


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Welcome from AZ!

I have a Beretta 92FS and a few 1911 style. You can get these with the ambidextrous safeties. I like the larger frame semi's as these are always (for me) easier to shoot accurately. Although, I shoot better with a revolver, I like Ruger and S&W 357 mag. 

For carry I use a colt 380.

Just stick to the major name brands, and you will have less hassle.


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## slayer61 (Aug 4, 2014)

My wife likes her M&P9c just fine, but YOU need to rent/borrow some and find out what YOU like & shoot well.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

$0.02

I would suggest you check out the many fine CZ offerings as well as some of the compacts from Beretta [PX-4] and Springfield.
You do need to get to some LGSs and check them out. Hopefully there is a range near by where you can also try or rent.

Now a suggestion, 
While shopping for a compact, I typically look for a RH firearm, however I do try the weak hand when testing a prospective handgun.

One of the few to really fit and operated in both hands was a Springfield EMP in .40. [ a 9x19 is out as well]

The smooth operation was unreal, and the pointing natural, but I did not have an opportunity to shoot one.
My reservations were the $$$ price tag and the slightly complex disassembly for regular cleaning.
But I handled few pistols that operated in both hands as smooth at that one.

Sorry the .380 is not on your list, a Beretta 80 series is worth a look too.


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

Thanks to those who replied. 

As for Beretta, I have zero interest in it because I spent 18 years attaching guns to work. I finally seprated the 2 and do not want to go with a gun that seems familiar to what I have spent so much time around. Same reason why I do not think I could ever have an interest in an AR15 when I get interested in rifles. 

Sure a .380 can stop a problem just as easy as any other but I cant get past how tiny it is. Why not use a 22? Even cheaper rounds and smaller guns...


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Zapper said:


> Thanks to those who replied.
> Sure a .380 can stop a problem just as easy as any other but I cant get past how tiny it is. Why not use a 22? Even cheaper rounds and smaller guns...


They do make mid size 380 guns (Beretta 84 series, also 1911 versions). I like Beretta's and 1911 style guns.

Like the others have said go to the local gun store and rent a few you are interested in.


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## Kennydale (Jun 10, 2013)

If you ask me I'll tell you Glock G19/G17 because I feel the Glocks hardly fail and the after market is expansive for Glock. reading your wish list MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE ( I have shot in same day HK VP9, Walther PPQ M2 and Sig P320 in both full size and carry configuration) I could definitly easily find room in my carry rotation (Which now consists of a Glock G17 gen 4) with the Sig P320 Carry. Honestly if you like M&P line that's great. They are good firearms, I am just UNDERWHELMED by them and dislike their triggers. if your looking at .357 Sig or .45Auto I can't help you (Not very interested in .45Auto)


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

If cost is not an issue, HK 45C or USP.45 Compact. I guess it would boil down to how many guns you plan on buying. If I could only have one, why not go for one of the best? The HK will more than likely give you a lifetime of service. HK's do cost more but you do get what you pay for. The rest that are on your short list are all good, but they're not an HK. 

If a .40 or .9mm are more to your liking the HK P2000SK .40 or P30SK .9mm. I like the compact pistols. But hell, they make other sizes and configurations too, any one of their products should suit your needs. You rarely if ever hear of any complaints about an HK. Some don't like the paddle mag release, (too short) but they do make a longer one. I find it easier to release the magazine, using my trigger finger than pushing down the button type release where you have shift the gun and reach over with your thumb. With the paddle release you never have to reposition the gun in your hand while releasing the magazine. 

I have 3 HK's. The HK 45C came with the extended release. The USP .45 Compact and P2000SK did not. It is very easy to change and the parts are available from HKParts.com. I don't know why they didn't put them on all their pistols? That's about my only complaint. They don't stick out any further and are just long enough to give you that extra leverage. Mag releases are ambidextrous as are the slide release on the HK 45C and P2000SK and "P" series pistols.

HK was the first company to develop a polymer frame pistol, the VP70. HK is primarily a military and law enforcement manufacturer that happens to sell to civilians. Not the other way around.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

As Dave wrote, try before you buy.

There are gun shops which have shooting areas on-premises, where you can rent time on many different pistols.
Go find one, and try as many different pistols as you can afford to rent.
Take notes, pistol by pistol: You'll never remember them all.
Then go home, re-read your notes, think about it, and make a decision.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Lots of advise out there, as far as bang for your buck and quality goes... my suggestion would be for a 9mm:

Sig P320
Glock 19
S&W M&P 

These are in no particular order and are excellent choices. Each one essentially functions the same but feel very different in the hand. Try each one and shoot each if you can... most likely one will stand out to you, either in accuracy or how it feels in your hand.

Lot of other choices our there, but these 3 have a lot of parts, accessories and holsters available to you. All 3 cost about the same and have proven track records. 

Good luck and enjoy the search for your handgun.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

I drive past an indoor range on my daily commute to and from work. I am lucky it is just over a mile from my house. I plan to stop in tomorrow to check it out. Ive been commutting past it for years.


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

So, my update. 

My local range, mile from my house has all 3 that I put narrowed down to. HK VP9, S&W MP9 and the Sig Sauer P320. 

I landed on those because all 3 are striker fired, seems to be the future, maybe? Smooth reliable trigger squeeze and such? 

All 3 are 9mm. All of them are ambidextrious. 

Well, the closest to my house range has all 3 for sale but none on the rental case. I held all 3. They all felt great. The HK is the best of them. Fit like a glove. 

I found another range about an hour from me that DOES have all 3 listed on their website as available for rental. I WILL make the trek out there through the Virginia Beach area traffic on a Summer Weekend.... UGH... to try to shoot them all. It is just a matter of when. 

Thanks for the advice thus far. Got any more? LOL

There is the update as of now.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Zapper said:


> So, my update.
> 
> My local range, mile from my house has all 3 that I put narrowed down to. HK VP9, S&W MP9 and the Sig Sauer P320.
> 
> ...


I kinda' figured you'd like the HK. I really do not think you'll find a better one.

I've got a P320 .40 which is an excellent gun. My only complaint is that the polymer frame scratches too easy. It has a real flat finish, I actually burnished the whole frame to get rid of the scratches. Other than that it's a great shootin' gun. The modular frame assembly comes out real easy making it easy to get in there and clean.

I have other Sig's too a P229 Equinox .40, a P220 Scorpion .45 and a P238 .380 Stainless. The P229 is a real work of art but a bit bulky even for a medium frame. The P220 is a full size .45, beautiful piece but too large for it's 8+1 capacity, got a great feel though as with all Sig's the fit and finish are excellent. The P238 is nice but it's a .380 and a single action semi auto.

I've got a few Glock's too. I wouldn't rule them out, most of the nations law enforcement use them with great success. I've yet to have one fail, they come in all shapes and sizes. There are God only knows how many parts and accessories available for them? At one time I swore I'd never own one. And I don't, I've got six of the damn things. Two G30 .45's, G23 .40, G26 .9mm, G27 .40, and a G43 .9mm. I believe the military may be switching to the Glock G17.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Sounds like you narrowed it down to 3 great choices.... I own 2 of them (M&P and P320). Try each out and see which one shoots best for you. Look at sights and trigger/reset too... as there you will find some differences.

Keep us updated.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

So, another update. 

I found a range that rents all 3 weapons. 17$ per every 2 weapons. They said 1 swap during rental. So I decided to only try 2 in the interest of money. Well, I bought 50 rounds and took the HK. I enjoyed it enough to not bother with the others. 

Now the search for a good deal on the hkVP9. Only problem left is 10rd version or 15... HMMM. I THINK that it is too big to conceal carry anyway, for my frame size. I am 5'7" float around 200lbs. In the winter I could carry but I am a surfer/grunge type dresser. So in the summer, not so much. Too big for hot weather concealment, I think.


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## AZdave (Oct 23, 2015)

Zapper said:


> So, another update.
> 
> I found a range that rents all 3 weapons. 17$ per every 2 weapons. They said 1 swap during rental. So I decided to only try 2 in the interest of money. Well, I bought 50 rounds and took the HK. I enjoyed it enough to not bother with the others.


I may have to rent (buy?) one if its that good.


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## Blackhawkman (Apr 9, 2014)

My choices would be
1. Glock 19 gen3 or gen4
2. Walther PPQ
3. S&W Shield(?)

Also, I would learn to shoot the way you are comfortable with. shoot right handed using the Left eye, or shoot left handed just like you're left handed?
I think you will find the pistol that fits your hand and feels good. I would try the Glock 19 for fit? The Walther has ambi slide release and mag release.
I hope this helps.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Zapper said:


> So, another update.
> 
> I found a range that rents all 3 weapons. 17$ per every 2 weapons. They said 1 swap during rental. So I decided to only try 2 in the interest of money. Well, I bought 50 rounds and took the HK. I enjoyed it enough to not bother with the others.
> 
> Now the search for a good deal on the hkVP9. Only problem left is 10rd version or 15... HMMM. I THINK that it is too big to conceal carry anyway, for my frame size. I am 5'7" float around 200lbs. In the winter I could carry but I am a surfer/grunge type dresser. So in the summer, not so much. Too big for hot weather concealment, I think.


I believe the guns are the same physical size only the 10 round mags are made for states where the magazine capacity is restricted. It is a large gun so concealability will be an issue. You may want to look at the HK P30SK .9mm or P2000SK .40 however they are not striker fired.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

When I first read your initial post, the gun that popped into my mind was the M&P 9c. This is an excellent compact 9mm pistol and offers pretty much all of what you outlined. The one I have was purchased new maybe 2 1/2 years ago. Since then Smith and Wesson has improved their triggers but I would still try to handle several and pick the one that has the best trigger.

For certain there are a ton of other very good choices, so take your time and enjoy your search. And do buy quality which based upon the ones you mentioned, you're already looking at some fine candidates. Oh, and you might want to include Glock in your list. The Glock 19 is a premier gun and shouldn't be ignored. It just needs after market sights.


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

I ordered the HK VP9. Palmetto Armory had it on sale this weekend. 519$. Hard to kick the tires on that one. 

It is a little large for conceal carry. I will use it to get comfortable with handling and firing a gun then possibly the S&W MPc line of some sort or another for carry, in the future. 

Thanks for the help and advice guys. I considered all of the advice. 

As for the Glock recommendations, I do intend on shooting one. I have a few local buddies that I am sure might wanna try my gun,


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## pblanc (Mar 3, 2015)

The VP9 is a good choice if you are looking for a polymer-frame, striker-fired pistol. I shot a rental VP9 at a range and it performed well. I did experience some trigger bite with it, and I shot the SIG-Sauer P320 better so I went with the SIG. The VP9 is definitely a nice pistol, though, with excellent trigger action, a paddle style magazine release lever, and a low-profile right-sided slide release lever which makes it quite ambidextrous.


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

Yea the rental deal was 1 gun swap for the rental price. I intended on trying the P320 but I was so impressed with the VP9 that I didnt go swap for the other. I am sure that I will shoot the P320 soon. Hell, I might add it to my list of possible CCW choices when I go shopping for that.


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## jtguns (Sep 25, 2011)

All the above advice is great and should be taken, that said shoot off hand about 40 percent of the time as you will never know when you may need it. Also shoot as often as you can afford it. Also I would think about a .22 lr if for no other reason that it is cheap to shoot and it is good practice to keep up your shooting skills with. You can shoot a lot of 22 and then go to your primary firearm. 
But what do I know?


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

jtguns said:


> ...I would think about a .22 lr if for no other reason that it is cheap to shoot and it is good practice to keep up your shooting skills with. You can shoot a lot of 22 and then go to your primary firearm...


If the shooter is interested in self-defense, this is not the best idea.
If you practice with a pistol that doesn't recoil much, and then switch to carrying a defensive weapon that does recoil significantly, you will find that your accuracy and your recoil control are not up to the job.
Your grip technique will be ineffective, and your muscle-memory techniques will not aim the pistol correctly. Even your trigger control will suffer, since the two guns are not the same.

I strongly suggest that the defensive shooter must practice with the pistol he carries, and the practice should feature ammunition with ballistics that are very close to the carry ammunition.
You need to become an instinctive shooter, and to do that requires practice with the defensive-carry combination. Always.


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## Zapper (Jul 15, 2016)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> If the shooter is interested in self-defense, this is not the best idea.
> If you practice with a pistol that doesn't recoil much, and then switch to carrying a defensive weapon that does recoil significantly, you will find that your accuracy and your recoil control are not up to the job.
> Your grip technique will be ineffective, and your muscle-memory techniques will not aim the pistol correctly. Even your trigger control will suffer, since the two guns are not the same.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with all of this. The Army just recently started teaching, well just started teaching EVERYONE reflexive firing and quick target acquisition. They realized that laying prone in the dirt knowing that the target will pop up from one of 6 places with in your own lane is not realistic. They still do that because of the tried and true, old way of thinking but they are trying to get to more realistic training. Muscle memory and quick reaction are important for real world situations.

Same goes for the ammo choices. If one uses different grains of ammo for firing versus protection, they will not have the same weapon response if a defensive action is needed. They should know their weapon and be familiar with how it reacts with the specific ammo they might need to use.

Angle, windage, velocity and the basics of marksmanship all factor into hitting your target. Now, let us add the realism of adrenaline and fear to the equation. THAT is why one must practice often with whatever they are carrying using the same ammo they intend to carry.


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