# Open-Carrier Attacked in Wal-Mart; Will Never Carry Openly Again



## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

Open-Carrier Attacked in Wal-Mart; Will Never carry Openly Again


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I used to openly carry almost exclusively for 7 1/2 years, up until the beginning of this year. Now I've taken a 180 and almost exclusively carry concealed. I have never accepted the common belief that if you open carry, you are going to be the first target of BG's, that you are going to be attacked and have your firearm taken from you, and that police are going to throw you to the ground, knee in your back, and cuffed you. This sort of thing is extremely rare. I don't say it could or doesn't happen... just that it virtually never happens.

With that said, I took the decision last December and cemented that decision in January, to carry concealed probably 95% of the time I am out and about. I have my reasons, to me they are valid, and I don't hesitate for a moment to cover it up when I leave my home. The exceptions are a gas station I patronize, when driving in one of my vehicles, when going into a gun store or gun show*, and when hitting a shooting range. All other times, my sidearm is now concealed.


* Every gun show I have been to allows you to carry your sidearm as you see fit as long as you check in with their "tie" table. Magazines must be removed for semi's and they may not be loaded. A zip tie is them passed through the ejection port and mag well or barrel. This is how you must carry in a gun show here (this is NOT a state law).


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

This fellow Walker is a lucky SOB. If you think it through, what is your first move when a disheveled man is eyeballing you and moving uncomfortably close? If you are open carrying, your options are to draw your gun, (which will likely get you arrested) or try to protect your gun. (Which puts you at a disadvantage in the fight)

On the other hand, if you are concealing your gun properly you most likely will never be singled out by mister "Disheveled".

JMHO YMMV

GW


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

"He drew his pistol and chambered a round".


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

paratrooper said:


> "He drew his pistol and chambered a round".


Haha. Then what? After the threat was over did he go through all the steps of unchambering the round, to put the pistol back into the perceived safe condition?


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## RK3369 (Aug 12, 2013)

The reality is, particularly here in SC, open carry is a NO NO. Not legal unless hunting or on your own property/home, etc. As such, I would be skeptical of anyone I saw carrying openly here, since it is illegal for the most part. To me, even if it is legal in your area, it is a cause for concern from so many who are not familiar with or used to hand guns, that I dont' think it's a good idea even if legal. After all, why do it and draw the attention/concern from others. Just carry it concealed and go about your business. You only have it for self defense anyhow, so why advertise that you have it? I don't see the need, nor do I see the need to say "I carry because I can, it's my right". Yes, it's you right where legal but do you really need to say to everyone that "it's your right"??? In many areas of the country it's probably legal to walk about in public in your underwear because particularly boxers are no different than leisure shorts, for the most part, but you don't usually see folks doing it.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

paratrooper said:


> "He drew his pistol and chambered a round".


Hey... He was carrying openly, which marks him as an idiot anyway.
So he did _two_ idiotic things then: He was carrying openly, and his gun was uselessly unloaded.

Idiot is as idiot does.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Open carry is quite common here in AZ. What isn't so common though, is one's self-awareness about doing it. Once in a great while, I actually see someone that is taking the steps to safe-guard the handgun on his/her hip. 

I've seen guys open-carry a "six-shooter" in a cowboy styled holster with no safety strap, release, or mechanism of any kind. And they tend to have a large Bowie knife on the opposite hip. They act like since they are armed, they are safe as can be.

I don't have any problem with open-carry, as long as the person doing so, takes the precautions to insure that the gun they are packing, remains theirs.


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## meetingkeith (Jun 5, 2015)

I think I read about this a while back. I can't help but wonder if the police gave the attacker a drug or alcohol test... I don't think it said in the article


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> "He drew his pistol and chambered a round".


I saw that, too and the first thing I thought was what the heck was he doing carrying a sidearm that is not in full battery? I know this gets argued on some sites from time to time and I try to stay out of it. I figure evil doesn't suffer fools and I am not about to be one of those fools.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> I saw that, too and the first thing I thought was what the heck was he doing carrying a sidearm that is not in full battery? I know this gets argued on some sites from time to time and I try to stay out of it. I figure evil doesn't suffer fools and I am not about to be one of those fools.


I too, have seen discussions about the issue on other forums. For the very life of me, I don't know why someone would go to the trouble of carrying a semi-auto pistol on them and not have it ready to fire.

Some say it only takes a second or so to chamber a round. Sometimes, that's all the time you have to react to a threat.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> I too, have seen discussions about the issue on other forums. For the very life of me, I don't know why someone would go to the trouble of carrying a semi-auto pistol on them and not have it ready to fire.
> 
> Some say it only takes a second or so to chamber a round. *Sometimes, that's all the time to have to react to a threat.*


Yes sir. And there's this.

Suppose your attacker manages to remove your support arm from the fight with a blow from a bat or similar weapon, a serious cut, or even a bullet wound. You are almost certainly not going to have the time to work the rack-the-slide-on-your-belt drill. Sh-- happens and it's better to be prepared and prudent than to walk around with a head-in-the-sand attitude.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I carry without a round chambered at times. 
There's a lot of emphasis on the ABSOLUTE need to have a round chambered. 
I don't see it as an absolute.
Do a comparison on the the amount of time it takes to rack a slide vs accessing your firearm at night time. 
Do you keep your firearm locked in a car vault, how about a bedroom vault?
Why is "time of the essence" an absolute , when we are all vulnerable many times during the course of the day and night.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

Two ongoing debates that boil down to personal preference and way of thinking.

1. open carry v.s. concealed.
2. loaded with chambered round v.s. loaded and not chambered.

YRMV


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> I carry without a round chambered at times.
> There's a lot of emphasis on the ABSOLUTE need to have a round chambered.
> I don't see it as an absolute.
> Do a comparison on the the amount of time it takes to rack a slide vs accessing your firearm at night time.
> ...


For me, it's simple. If I carry, my handgun is 100% ready to fire. I can't come up with a reason why it wouldn't have a round chambered.

In my car or in my home, I am "somewhat" protected. I can lock the doors. If out and around on foot, the element of surprise can often be your worst enemy. So many different scenarios that can catch you off guard, that I can't even begin to list them.

Doesn't matter if it's a revolver or a semi-auto pistol. They are both loaded to capacity and ready to fire in an instant. I would have *NEVER* considered carrying a sidearm while I was working, and not have one in the chamber.

I don't care how fast someone might be able to draw their pistol and rack the slide to chamber a round. That takes time, and it's time that you lose. What if while racking that slide, you are under intense pressure and you fail to some degree, and you have to do it again?

You can practice until you are blue in the face, getting your time down to next to nothing, and feeling that you are as good at it as it's going to get. Practice is nothing like the real deal, when you are caught off-guard and not expecting what you are now forced to deal with.

If someone knows of a valid reason why carrying a pistol w/o one in the tube is a good thing, I'd love to hear it. :watching:


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

*Condition Four*: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.*Condition Three*: Chamber empty, full magazine, hammer down.
*Condition Two*: Round chambered, full magazine, hammer down.
*Condition One*: Round chambered, full magazine, hammer cocked, safety on.
*Condition Zero*: Round chambered, full magazine, hammer cocked, safety off.

I recently challenged a friend to a simple test. Pick the carry condition that you find most comfortable. Then, with a simulated threat, go to Condition Zero. Now, pretend the threat is over and go back to the condition that you found most comfortable to carry. Oh, and imagine a crowd of people are watching.

Before that test my friend was carrying a 1911 in condition 3. Now he carries in condition 1.


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hey... He was carrying openly, which marks him as an idiot anyway.
> So he did _two_ idiotic things then: He was carrying openly, and his gun was uselessly unloaded.
> 
> Idiot is as idiot does.


I don't agree with you on much but You got it right this time.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't think all that carry openly are idiots. I'm not willingly to go that far and say that. I have some good friends that open carry and they'd be some of the last I'd ever call idiots. 

If you do open carry, do so responsibly. Be aware of your surroundings and those around you. Use your arm to shield your piece while in a static position. When at all possible, keep your armed side away from others.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

What paratrooper said ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> For me, it's simple. If I carry, my handgun is 100% ready to fire. I can't come up with a reason why it wouldn't have a round chambered.
> 
> In my car or in my home, I am "somewhat" protected. I can lock the doors. If out and around on foot, the element of surprise can often be your worst enemy. So many different scenarios that can catch you off guard, that I can't even begin to list them.
> 
> ...


When I pocket the glock , I don't chamber a round. 
My 1911 is always chambered, but is holstered and carried correctly.
Pocketing the GLOCK is not the best carry method, but, if it came down to carry unchambered or not carrying at all , I will choose carrying unchambered.

I agree chambered is better, but not an absolute. If I get into a situation , I always try to flee or avoid the situation. 
I have had to chamber a round under pressure . like I said in past posts I do not recommend some of my methods. I don't freeze or fumble, but I can see it happening, no doubt.
My only point is , IT's just not an ABSOLUTE or nothing option.

Going to work, pouring some concrete today, I'm doing a young man's job this summer. 
Didn't realize the body had this many muscles to get SORE, LOL.

LAYING CONCRETE BLOCK TOMORROW :help:


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

pic said:


> I carry without a round chambered at times.
> There's a lot of emphasis on the ABSOLUTE need to have a round chambered.
> I don't see it as an absolute.
> Do a comparison on the the amount of time it takes to rack a slide vs accessing your firearm at night time.
> ...


The thing is, pic, you will likely never know how and where an attack comes. Isn't it better to have your tools at their ready then to have them at rest? When I retire for the night, my nightstand gun is one of my primary carry guns. Therefore it remains in its kydex holster. This offers some frictional retention and should I awaken and reach for that gun, I am not likely to remove it without reason (it is not just laying loose on my nightstand).

Look at it this way. Police don't go about out of battery. Granted, they're uniformed and easily identified. But if you need that gun, there is a good possibility that you're going to need it quickly and like right now. Having a round chambered, and for me no externally settable safety, means getting that gun into the fray more quickly.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> I don't think all that carry openly are idiots. I'm not willingly to go that far and say that. I have some good friends that open carry and they'd be some of the last I'd ever call idiots.
> 
> If you do open carry, do so responsibly. Be aware of your surroundings and those around you. Use your arm to shield your piece while in a static position. When at all possible, keep your armed side away from others.


FWIW, that is how I open carried. And I am not an idiot.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

pic said:


> When I pocket the glock , I don't chamber a round.
> My 1911 is always chambered, but is holstered and carried correctly.
> Pocketing the GLOCK is not the best carry method, but, if it came down to carry unchambered or not carrying at all , I will choose carrying unchambered.
> 
> ...


I would NEVER pocket carry a Glock, but that's just me. I would, and have, pocket carried other guns but definitely not a Glock.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Every now and then, I pocket carry. My favorite is a S&W 642. It's about as snag resistant as you can get, and the trigger pull is stiff enough that I don't need to worry.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Everyone is looking at the extreme immediate need to have a round chambered , I totally understand.
If I was in a area of moderate to high concern, an unchambered gun is not my carry method. 
But if I need to go get the mail, I'm comfortable with an unchambered glock. Them black bear can pop up anytime,.
:smt1099


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> Everyone is looking at the extreme immediate need to have a round chambered , I totally understand.
> If I was in a area of moderate to high concern, an unchambered gun is not my carry method.
> But if I need to go get the mail, I'm comfortable with an unchambered glock. Them black bear can pop up anytime,.
> :smt1099


Well......you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

It wasn't like we didn't try to convince you otherwise. :smt102

Truth be told, there are times (quite a few actually) that I venture out totally unarmed. I rely more-or-less, on my disarming personality. :smt033


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

paratrooper said:


> Well......you're gonna do what you're gonna do.
> 
> It wasn't like we didn't try to convince you otherwise. :smt102
> 
> Truth be told, there are times (quite a few actually) that I venture out totally unarmed. I rely more-or-less, on my disarming personality. :smt033


Exactly, your never 100% protected as a firearm is concerned , but we do have other resources. Lol
Diversification is the key to survival. You can not rely on a handgun unless there is intent.
The time it takes to determine intent can be just as detrimental as an unchambered handgun.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I


pic said:


> When I pocket the glock , I don't chamber a round.
> My 1911 is always chambered, but is holstered and carried correctly.
> Pocketing the GLOCK is not the best carry method, but, if it came down to carry unchambered or not carrying at all , I will choose carrying unchambered.
> 
> ...


Survived the concrete pour, getting to old for this shit,lol.
Had scheduled pour at 730am. Had to finish tying rebar 20 ft x 10 ft. Partial double mat .
Had to run forty ft of slick line, concrete was being pumped.

Transferred 800 block off pallets into the school rehab. There were four of us, maybe 3 1/2 people, a helper was kinda green , but worked hard
Concrete placement, finishing , clean up, and set up for tomorrow.

Here's a training photo I taught ,,,The difference is snap caps vs live ammo, lol.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic:
Is Jimmy Hoffa under all that concrete?


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

desertman said:


> pic:
> Is Jimmy Hoffa under all that concrete?


:anim_lol:


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Well.......at least this thread did one good thing for me. It got me to thinking about the Uncle Mike's rubber boot grips I had on my S&W 642. I've had them on for quite some time now, and liked them, except for one thing. The rubber grips tended to grab material when in a pocket, making it a bit harder to pull it out smoothly and quickly. 

So, I got to thinking and was sure that a few years back, I had purchased some S&W checkered laminate Walnut grips for it. Same size and shape as the Uncle Mike's, but just a lot slicker and not made of rubber. 

Anyways, after digging through one of my gun vaults, I found them. Still new in the package and real purdy little suckers. Put um on and my 642 now looks even nicer. Funny how nice wood grips add to a firearm. 

When I bought them back when, I'm sure I paid under $40.00 for them. I did some research and now, the exact same grips are selling for well over $110.00


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> I
> 
> Survived the concrete pour, getting to old for this shit,lol.
> Had scheduled pour at 730am. Had to finish tying rebar 20 ft x 10 ft. Partial double mat .
> ...


You have my utmost respect. A long time ago, when I was younger, I helped a couple of friends pour a large slab on the back of a house, and then did some block wall work around the slab a few days later.

I'm still a little sore to this day from all that work..............:smt011


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

pic said:


> Everyone is looking at the extreme immediate need to have a round chambered , I totally understand.
> If I was in a area of moderate to high concern, an unchambered gun is not my carry method.
> But if I need to go get the mail, I'm comfortable with an unchambered glock. Them black bear can pop up anytime,.
> :smt1099


This necessitates several different training disciplines. Simplicity is your friend when you may suddenly be faced with a threat. Add to this an unnecessary amount of effort loading and unloading a gun's chamber and you increase the risk of a bad mistake taking place.

Just a thought. Wouldn't it be better to just leave it in one state of readiness, be it chambered or unchambered, and train accordingly? I don't know about this because my carry and SD guns are always loaded and in full battery.... always, unless being cleaned, worked on, or doing some practice work.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

pic said:


> I
> 
> Survived the concrete pour, getting to old for this shit,lol.
> Had scheduled pour at 730am. Had to finish tying rebar 20 ft x 10 ft. Partial double mat .
> ...


You're a better man that I. I couldn't do and wouldn't want to do any of that. Besides, I'm retired... I don't have to work. When I was working, I just sat in a cubical and designed and developed software systems and components. Lots of physical labor there, ya' know.

Nope, I did hard manual labor in my youth and know it to be hard work. Honorable as hell, but hard.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

SouthernBoy said:


> This necessitates several different training disciplines. Simplicity is your friend when you may suddenly be faced with a threat. Add to this an unnecessary amount of effort loading and unloading a gun's chamber and you increase the risk of a bad mistake taking place.
> 
> Just a thought. Wouldn't it be better to just leave it in one state of readiness, be it chambered or unchambered, and train accordingly? I don't know about this because my carry and SD guns are always loaded and in full battery.... always, unless being cleaned, worked on, or doing some practice work.


Again, I simply cannot imagine a situation or scenario, where I would venture out and away from my home with a sidearm on my person for protection, and it not being ready to fire in a nano-second.

Even if I carry a firearm with a safety on it, you can rest assured it's not on.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

I


paratrooper said:


> Again, I simply cannot imagine a situation or scenario, where I would venture out and away from my home with a sidearm on my person for protection, and it not being ready to fire in a nano-second.
> 
> Even if I carry a firearm with a safety on it, you can rest assured it's not on.


Buy a glock and pocket carry it,lol. I only do this with the glock. 
But I love the glock, it's s lint buster of a gun. 
Thanks
Pic
:smt1099


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

paratrooper said:


> Again, I simply cannot imagine a situation or scenario, where I would venture out and away from my home with a sidearm on my person for protection, and it not being ready to fire in a nano-second.


I'm of the same mind as you on this.



paratrooper said:


> Even if I carry a firearm with a safety on it, you can rest assured it's not on.


I have only one gun in my carry stable that has an external settable safety and it is always off when carried or in my home being used as a SD gun. I bought this one with a settable safety because there are going to be times when I am going to be transporting it in a somewhat thin pouch and I do not wish to take the chance of it being accidentally fired.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

My beretta px4 has a safety, It inadvertently gets flipped off I've discovered. 
If your carry piece does have a safety, it should still be checked after drawing your weapon in a defensive situation.m
If the gun has a safety it needs to be addressed at draw to know positively whether it has not inadvertently been switched on or off. 
:smt1099


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The only two guns I ever carry with a lever safety are a 1911 and the CZ RAMI. Even then, as much as I like both of these guns, I rarely carry them. Occasionally, I shoot one or the other of them at the range, and I am so 're-impressed' (with either of them) that I will carry one of them for a while, because the mechanics are fresh in my mind. But, I usually don't get back out to shoot them again for a month, to reinforce those mechanics, so I begin to lose confidence in my readiness to operate the safety, and go back to the simpler striker fired guns. All I have to remember with them is to stay off the trigger, which has been automatic with me for decades, so they just make more sense, unless I'm practicing weekly.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic:


> Pocketing the GLOCK is not the best carry method, but, if it came down to carry unchambered or not carrying at all , I will choose carrying unchambered.


I always carry with a round chambered. Otherwise you might as well carry a brick. Carrying a Glock in a suitable pocket holster is perfectly safe as long as there is nothing else in your pocket. Glock has just come out with two new models for that purpose the G42 .380 and the G43 .9mm. I regularly carry a G26. fully loaded and ready to go. I haven't shot my balls off with this method of carry. Whenever I place the gun in my pocket, I first remove the holster, place the gun in it, and then place both gun and holster in my pocket.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pic said:


> My beretta px4 has a safety, It inadvertently gets flipped off I've discovered...


This is a holster issue.
A properly made and fitted holster should immobilize the pistol's safety lever (if there is one).

However, a TDA pistol, the first shot from which is fired with a fairly stiff double-action-style trigger, needs neither a safety lever nor a holster which immobilizes it.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> This is a holster issue.
> A properly made and fitted holster should immobilize the pistol's safety lever (if there is one).
> 
> However, a TDA pistol, the first shot from which is fired with a fairly stiff double-action-style trigger, needs neither a safety lever nor a holster which immobilizes it.


I agree that a double action from the described pull is a very good carry.

My issue, when someone mentions that I keep my safety in the off position, creates a red flag. 
If there is a safety, whether you keep it ,, in the off or ON position, you still need to address the safety mechanism As DUE DILIGENCE IS YOUR FRIEND?

But do not depend on a proper holster to manage your safety lever when DUE DILIGENCE is required, 
A proper holster , or the best holster possible should never eliminate DUE DILIGENCE when a gun has a safety mechanism. 
The safety becomes part of the process. 
:smt1099


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

desertman said:


> pic:
> 
> I always carry with a round chambered. Otherwise you might as well carry a brick. Carrying a Glock in a suitable pocket holster is perfectly safe as long as there is nothing else in your pocket. Glock has just come out with two new models for that purpose the G42 .380 and the G43 .9mm. I regularly carry a G26. fully loaded and ready to go. I haven't shot my balls off with this method of carry. Whenever I place the gun in my pocket, I first remove the holster, place the gun in it, and then place both gun and holster in my pocket.


I sometimes eliminate the holster when unchambered. 
Pulling the gun out of the pocket holster is a pain in the ass, slows things down. 
That's why the GLOCK makes a perfect lint buster


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic:


> I sometimes eliminate the holster when unchambered.
> Pulling the gun out of the pocket holster is a pain in the ass, slows things down.


It does not slow things down, I've carried that way for years. It's never a good idea to carry a gun loosely, unholstered in your pocket, same for just stuffing it in your waistband. Holsters are designed specifically for a purpose. They keep the gun upright and in the proper position for drawing the weapon. Otherwise it would flop around in your pocket making it difficult to draw which could result in the gun going off as you fumble around trying to grab it. Not a good idea especially if you are in a hurry and need the weapon instantly. They also cover the trigger guard which helps prevent an accidental discharge by keeping the trigger finger away from the trigger until it clears the holster. As it should.

I do not know why you would want to carry an un-chambered gun in your pocket anyway? If you like the weight you can always put rocks or ball bearings in your pocket. *Having to rack a slide is just something else you have to do.* Making it even more difficult to get the gun into action, costing you precious seconds in the event of a life or death situation. No doubt about it, that will *really slow you down*. Especially if you fail to initially or partially chamber a round, having to eject it and try again. Sweaty hands and adrenaline pumping could make racking a slide even more difficult. It makes no sense whatsoever to carry a gun for self defense unless you can draw it quickly and pull the trigger without any unnecessary hinderances or obstructions. In these types of situations time is definitely not on your side.

Carrying a gun that is not ready to be used at an instants notice and the hesitation to use it is a good way to get yourself killed. More than likely your potential attacker will be able to get the gun away from you and shoot you with it. As you fumble around trying to figure what went wrong, they will have the element of surprise.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

I've never used any type or kind of pocket holster. Rarely, do I pocket carry. As I mentioned previously, when I do, it's a S&W 642. Usually it's blue jeans and I carry in my right rear pocket. I cover it with a long t-shirt worn on the outside. 

With it in my rear pocket, it feels very natural to reach behind to access it. I actually like it better there than in a holster on my hip. 

In regards to carrying a firearm w/o a chambered round, I like what desertman said about it. Nothing else I can add to what he said.


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## BackyardCowboy (Aug 27, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> With it in my rear pocket, it feels very natural to reach behind to access it. I actually like it better there than in a holster on my hip.


1. Appendix carry
2. Pocket carry
3. Four o'clock carry
4. Paratrooper's butt carry (won't need to see a proctologist if it butt fires *and* cures hemorrhoids without surgery) :anim_lol:

We all go with what works for us


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

U


desertman said:


> pic:
> 
> It does not slow things down, I've carried that way for years. It's never a good idea to carry a gun loosely, unholstered in your pocket, same for just stuffing it in your waistband. Holsters are designed specifically for a purpose. They keep the gun upright and in the proper position for drawing the weapon. Otherwise it would flop around in your pocket making it difficult to draw which could result in the gun going off as you fumble around trying to grab it. Not a good idea especially if you are in a hurry and need the weapon instantly. They also cover the trigger guard which helps prevent an accidental discharge by keeping the trigger finger away from the trigger until it clears the holster. As it should.
> 
> ...


Have you not , more then once , stated you won't carry a GLOCK up front iwb because you value your jewels , lol.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

pic said:


> ...But do not depend on a proper holster to manage your safety lever when DUE DILIGENCE is required,
> A proper holster , or the best holster possible should never eliminate DUE DILIGENCE when a gun has a safety mechanism.
> The safety becomes part of the process.
> :smt1099


1. It is not a matter of "depend[ing up]on a proper holster to manage your safety lever," but rather more like _partnering with a well-fitted holster so that one's gun's safety lever does not inadvertently get moved to "off."_ A properly fitted holster should immobilize the pistol's safety lever, but it still is your responsibility to make certain that the safety is in the "on" position before you ever holster your gun.

2. But above and beyond all issues of safety levers, trigger actions, and holsters, real gun safety relies exclusively upon the proper functioning of the safety device we all possess, built right into our heads, directly between our ears. If that safety mechanism is not properly used, functioning correctly, or even engaged, then that user should not be even contemplating the use of a firearm, or, indeed, any dangerous object including kitchen knives and clawhammers.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

If I carry my handgun with the safety off, and it came a time to use the gun , I would sweep my finger or visually check the safety is off. I would not trust the safety being off, just because I holstered it that way. 
My life may depend on it. 
It's a habit I can't break.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

pic said:


> If I carry my handgun with the safety off, and it came a time to use the gun , I would sweep my finger or visually check the safety is off. I would not trust the safety being off, just because I holstered it that way.
> My life may depend on it.
> It's a habit I can't break.


When you carry a piece w/o a safety, or if you carry one with a safety, but never use it, you don't have to wonder what the status is.

Some habits are worth making the effort to break. Poor ole Pic, he done opened up a Pandora's Box. :anim_lol:

If we didn't like ya so much, we wouldn't care. :smt033


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## TheReaper (Nov 14, 2008)

What is this ....SAFETY.... that some of you guys speak of ?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

TheReaper said:


> What is this ....SAFETY.... that some of you guys speak of ?


Doesn't matter what make or model handgun I carry, the "safety" is the one between my ears. :smt083


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

Without good habits, literally all it takes for tragedy to happen is a moment’s inattention, such as failing to check that the gun is unloaded, or failing to really see the status when you do check, or failing to remember that you reloaded the gun before you set it down. Is the safety engaged or not engaged? But a strong lifetime habit of handling the firearm respectfully even when unloaded can prevent injury and death even when your brain isn’t paying as much attention as it should.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

A lifetime habit of keeping your finger away from the trigger until it is pointed 'down-range' is sufficient to prevent accidents. Modern handguns never 'go off' without a trigger pull.


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