# Does ammunition make a difference/recommendations…



## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Hello friends,

Like oil for a car - so many different options. Thoughts on what type of ammunition I should purchase for Range time v. for self defense.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Hg007 (8 mo ago)

I only tell you what I have and use .. 
Any reputable brands are good for range like Federal Premium, PNC , Blazers etc ..
For EDC : 
Fiocchi Defense Dynamics , 
Norma MHP , 
Federal PD , 
Hornady XTP + Critical defense ,..


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Hg007 said:


> I only tell you what I have and use ..
> Any reputable brands are good for range like Federal Premium, PNC , Blazers etc ..
> For EDC :
> Fiocchi Defense Dynamics ,
> ...


Thank you, sir -> what does EDC mean?

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Hg007 (8 mo ago)

lz33w7 said:


> Thank you, sir -> what does EDC mean?
> 
> Kindly,
> Stephen


Every Day Carry ..


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

IT all comes down to personal preference... Like, what kind of clothes do people like to wear. Doesn't necessarily make something "better."

I will say that for 9mm target use, I ONLY buy:

CCI Blazer Brass
CCI Blazer Aluminum (this stuff is much cleaner than Winchester White Box)
Winchester White Box

And, I will buy red box Federal 9mm FMJ target rounds sometimes - if that is all I can get at the time... But, back when they sold it at WalMart, many of the casings in every box were out of spec. So, it's kind of my last choice.


9mm Self Defense - I usually use 9mm Critical Defense. Sometimes I use 9mm Federal Hydrashok, or the newer Federal HST. Right now, I'm all in on Critical Defense. Yes, I know there are other rounds that penetrate more, but I also believe there is a point where overpenetration becomes a likely issue.

There will be other follow up posts where people will disagree with me. That's life.

When I used to have 1911s in 45, I used Winchester PDX1 ammo as my JHP.. The shape seemed to feed a little better in a 1911.


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## Cypher (May 17, 2017)

lz33w7 said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Like oil for a car - so many different options. Thoughts on what type of ammunition I should purchase for Range time v. for self defense.
> 
> ...


This is an excellent article by a guy who's considered to be one of the leading experts in this field.

Anything on this list will serve you just fine for self defense ammunition. For practice ammunition I buy Blazer Brass






Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo


6/1/16 When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr: http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg As...



pistol-forum.com


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

There are actually tons of tests and stories about real world performance on JHP rounds. It is interesting that what is "the best" can vary from test to test.

Some tests/studies of medical reports show that there is not much real world variation between different calibers. And, some say there are. Truth is, bullets are pour manstoppers in real life.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have never had to use my sidearm in defense of self or others so my choice of ammunition (caliber and load) is not based upon actual use but rather from fairly extensive research. That said, for the 9mm my two choices are, in no particular order, the Federal 124 grain HST in +P and the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHP, also in +P..


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Looks like they already have you covered OP. Much of what I use is stated above.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Yes, it does. No, not really.
Range fodder needs to work. It makes for a more enjoyable range outing, and for better results if doing drills. This is usually much less expensive to blast through, and every bit counts in todays pricing.
SD has to work. No exceptions. Price may or may not play in, but shouldn't to the point is does with range fodder or getting away from proven ammo.
That said, most do work, as long as your gun likes it. Most are adequate on the business end. Some better than others, of course.
Brands I use:
For the range:
Blazer, Federal, CCI, Winchester of all sorts of flavors. All have worked just fine for me, and I shop for bulk since I wasn't set up to reload pistol any more. That will be remedied as soon as components coma available.
SD:
HST, Bonded Golden Saber, Ranger LE, and Hornady Critical (Defence and Duty) are good. These all have a great track record, some work better at +P velocities, but all the above work well in 9MM and .40.
Gold Dot gets Honorable Mention with a couple of conditions. In 9MM it does best with +P velocity, and has to be the old formula. The G2 has had problems in terminals. Expansion has been inconsistent and not uniform. Speer has yet to publish this being addressed, and denied it for a while. They may still be, I don't know. I do know Speer managed to screw up one of the best things going, but some may disagree.
As mentioned, Pistol Calibers are poor man stoppers and most have no idea of what they really measure in testing, so stack it in your favor. "Best" is very subjective. Shoot till the threat isn't a threat, and practice like you hope you never have to play.
Happy researching, and here is a Tylenol for the headache you're going to give yourself.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The only real answer is trail and error. Different pistol can be picky about which rounds the pistols like. I have a pistol that don't like aluminum case rounds but the same make and model doesn't have a problem with the aluminum cases. Self-defense rounds again trail and error of what your pistol likes.


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## Alte Schule (4 mo ago)

Pocket Pistol Caliber Ballistic Gel Tests - LuckyGunner.com Labs


Pocket pistol caliber ballistic gelatin results. We tested dozens of different loads to give you an idea what's best for self-defense.



www.luckygunner.com









Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data


Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.



www.luckygunner.com


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## ggm84 (Dec 3, 2021)

At the range I shoot Speer 115 gr TMJ or Federal 124 gr FMJ. My defense round is Magtech Guardian Gold 124 gr JHP.


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## mur.cap (7 mo ago)

lz33w7 said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Like oil for a car - so many different options. Thoughts on what type of ammunition I should purchase for Range time v. for self defense.
> 
> ...



You can get ammo?
When you do, you can choose the brand?


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

tony pasley said:


> The only real answer is trail and error. Different pistol can be picky about which rounds the pistols like. I have a pistol that don't like aluminum case rounds but the same make and model doesn't have a problem with the aluminum cases. Self-defense rounds again trail and error of what your pistol likes.


Pretty much what I was going to say. Each firearm may show a preference for what it likes. What shoots reliably and accurately in one may not perform as well in another gun.

Three handguns. Same ammo:









One handgun, two brands of ammo:









When it comes to defensive ammo I tend to rely on what test results are already available and then if it works well in my handgun. FBI load tests are a good place to start.

Speer Gold Dot
Federal HST
Hornady Critical Duty tend to work well in tests. so if one of these works well in one of my handguns it gets carried.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

SSGN_Doc said:


> Pretty much what I was going to say. Each firearm may show a preference for what it likes. What shoots reliably and accurately in one may not perform as well in another gun.
> 
> Three handguns. Same ammo:
> View attachment 22682
> ...


It’s hard to believe ammunition brand/type makes that big of a difference (I mean from reading all these responses and seeing results I believe it)…very interesting to say the least. Being entirely new to this hobbie…ammunition is ammunition -> apparently not….I was thinking the concept of a bullet is pretty straightforward…

This helps - thank you gentlemen.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

lz33w7 said:


> It’s hard to believe ammunition brand/type makes that big of a difference (I mean from reading all these responses and seeing results I believe it)…very interesting to say the least. Being entirely new to this hobbie…ammunition is ammunition -> apparently not….I was thinking the concept of a bullet is pretty straightforward…
> 
> This helps - thank you gentlemen.
> 
> ...


Barrels are very prejudice creatures. Pick up the same make, model, and caliber right beside any of these and the results can be different. As shown, pistol has preferences, and get into rifles and a whole new Pandoras Box opens up. Mostly because of speed, but distance, and other things factor in. As you can see, even short distance makes for a difference. You never know until you try.
When you read "As long as your barrel likes it" think to this example.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

lz33w7 said:


> It’s hard to believe ammunition brand/type makes that big of a difference (I mean from reading all these responses and seeing results I believe it)…very interesting to say the least. Being entirely new to this hobbie…ammunition is ammunition -> apparently not….I was thinking the concept of a bullet is pretty straightforward…
> 
> This helps - thank you gentlemen.
> 
> ...


Back when ammo was super plentiful and more affordable it was not uncommon for me to grab a pretty wide selection of ammo to try out in a handgun, just to see if it had preferences or problems with anything in particular.


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## FMHD (4 mo ago)

The answer to your first question is yes. Lots of variables and since you’re new I think, understand changing ammo will change poi if you can shoot well enough to see that. Same grain bullet ain’t necessarily the same thing especially at range


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

As others stated, ammo brands DO matter.

Besides just finding ammo that may or may not function - accuracy from a gun CAN depend on the ammo you are using.

When I choose a self defense ammo, I not only test for function - I test for accuracy. 

I used to take 3 different JHP rounds, and try thru my guns when I get them... To see which round was more accurate. With some guns - all 3 rounds were the same in POA/POI. And, sometimes 1 WAS more accurate then the other 2 rounds in a particular firearm. 

Over time, I've just switched to Critical Defense as my self defense round. In all my guns, I haven't had any POI/POA issues. So, instead of stocking multiple brands of self defense rounds, I just go with that one.


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## FMHD (4 mo ago)

SSGN_Doc said:


> Pretty much what I was going to say. Each firearm may show a preference for what it likes. What shoots reliably and accurately in one may not perform as well in another gun.
> 
> Three handguns. Same ammo:
> View attachment 22682
> ...


Great pics as examples


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## mur.cap (7 mo ago)

Yup, "trail and error" and I'm still trying to locate the old trail.


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## gwpercle (Jun 8, 2018)

The cheap stuff is for range time .

The more / most expensive , usually loaded with JHP bullets , is for self defense . Make sure this ammo works - functions in Your Gun 100% of the time .
You might have to bet your life on it ...
and "CLICK" is the sound you don't want to hear were the chips are down .

Gary


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

one other rule to follow: DON"T BUY RELOADS !!!!!!!!!!


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

tony pasley said:


> one other rule to follow: DON"T BUY RELOADS !!!!!!!!!!


I will never assume anything - but that would be using a “casing” that has already been fired and using the new components with an “old” casing?

I guess I can “Google” it then.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

lz33w7 said:


> I will never assume anything - but that would be using a “casing” that has already been fired and using the new components with an “old” casing?
> 
> I guess I can “Google” it then.
> 
> ...


The problem is that not everyone knows what they are doing.

In 1995, I was using reloads from my wife's father. He had actually died before I met her, but he had thousands of reloads left behind

Well, most did not work that well. And one blew up my Glock 17 at the time. I have NEVER used reloads or remanufactured (reloads from a commercial company) ammo again. EVER.

I have had people over the years want to try one of my guns at the range, and I let them. But, I always see what ammo they have first. If they don't have new ammo, I decline.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I reload but if I do something wrong it is on me. I pay attention to what I am doing when I reload, but I can't say that for everyone else.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> The problem is that not everyone knows what they are doing.
> 
> In 1995, I was using reloads from my wife's father. He had actually died before I met her, but he had thousands of reloads left behind
> 
> ...


I know it was a long time ago - but respects to your wife and her father.

Seems to me it would be just one big liability…and not worth the risk (as you’ve given several examples) as to avoid re-loads in it’s entirety.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

lz33w7 said:


> I will never assume anything - but that would be using a “casing” that has already been fired and using the new components with an “old” casing?
> 
> I guess I can “Google” it then.
> 
> ...


There are home rolled reloads, that one should shy away from unless you know who is doing it and have seen for yourself that they are doing it right, and not overcharging their loads.
Then, there are "factory" reloads that theoretically come off the same or similar machinery as brand new but use once fired brass. Usually less inexpensive, and usually just as reliable and safe as any factory load, and usually using factory data and sizing. Research their reputation and safety though, there have been some bad apples in the past, but most all have gone away, that I know of.
I have rifles that have never had a round of factory ammo put through them, I roll my own, and it makes for a customized round that my rifle likes, in length, bullet set, and powder choice. it can make a difference, and sometimes a lot of difference.
Same with pistol ammo. It may not make a lick of difference for grouping and placement in one barrel, but the next barrel might spray the same ammo like a shotgun. Function and reliability should be a given. A little bit of a wide grouping can be forgiven, failure to function can't
Happy shopping, and good luck with your classes.

BTW: where are you Stephen? That could help with some questions down the road or suggestions for purchases. No need to get specific unless you are comfortable, but a state or country would be helpful.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

LostinTexas said:


> There are home rolled reloads, that one should shy away from unless you know who is doing it and have seen for yourself that they are doing it right, and not overcharging their loads.
> Then, there are "factory" reloads that theoretically come off the same or similar machinery as brand new but use once fired brass. Usually less inexpensive, and usually just as reliable and safe as any factory load, and usually using factory data and sizing. Research their reputation and safety though, there have been some bad apples in the past, but most all have gone away, that I know of.
> I have rifles that have never had a round of factory ammo put through them, I roll my own, and it makes for a customized round that my rifle likes, in length, bullet set, and powder choice. it can make a difference, and sometimes a lot of difference.
> Same with pistol ammo. It may not make a lick of difference for grouping and placement in one barrel, but the next barrel might spray the same ammo like a shotgun. Function and reliability should be a given. A little bit of a wide grouping can be forgiven, failure to function can't
> ...


I am super comfortable…..just read my mind.

I just moved from Dallas, Texas to Ft. Worth, Texas and was going to reach out to Forum Members to see if anyone was in the area.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

lz33w7 said:


> I am super comfortable…..just read my mind.
> 
> I just moved from Dallas, Texas to Ft. Worth, Texas and was going to reach out to Forum Members to see if anyone was in the area.
> 
> ...


I am about 3 hours south of you. I was up in Dallas a few weeks ago for a special medical scan, but I don't get up that way very often.


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## Lisa93 (2 mo ago)

Blazer Brass has always been good for range, and back porch shooting. I save the brass for my Dad and Brother, they reload..and they like it too. For SD / HD / EDC.. It's Speer Gold Dot. Thats what Dad always had in his service weapon..and it runs 100% in my guns.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Lisa93 said:


> Blazer Brass has always been good for range, and back porch shooting. I save the brass for my Dad and Brother, they reload..and they like it too. For SD / HD / EDC.. It's Speer Gold Dot. Thats what Dad always had in his service weapon..and it runs 100% in my guns.


Blazer Brass is what I generally use for target practice too.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Thank you, ma’am -> good copy.

Super groovy - I suspect I’ll continue to flirt with various rounds of ammunition.

v/r,

Kindly,
Stephen


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> Blazer Brass is what I generally use for target practice too.


Well shoot - maybe this is what I need for my first practice round.

v/r,

Kindly,
Stephen


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Hello friends,

I know there is a lot of talk around ammunition etc. This is what my instructor recommended….










Not really knowing what to expect, seemed to shoot just fine. 

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I've shot that in the past. You don't typically find that brand locally. But, I typically stick with the same 3 or 4 brands, and nothing else.

We all have our personal preferences. Doesn't mean anyone is necessarily wrong. If you like it and can get it regularly, then stick with it.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

I have a feeling this is probably one of the more expensive brands which is why she suggested it. I’ll pay closer attention next time.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

I’ve used Fiocchi ammo quite a bit (both Italian imported stuff and the Fiocchi USA stuff.). It’s been reliable and clean. Pretty sure Fiocchi USA made ammo for Walmart under the Perfecta name.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

In the past Fi


lz33w7 said:


> I have a feeling this is probably one of the more expensive brands which is why she suggested it. I’ll pay closer attention next


In my experience Fiocchi is often near the same price as Winchester, Federal, etc in their range ammo.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

I appreciate your feedback, thank you. Is it possible for the pistol to feel different when you use different brands of ammunition?

Kindly,
Stephen


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

lz33w7 said:


> I appreciate your feedback, thank you. Is it possible for the pistol to feel different when you use different brands of ammunition?
> 
> Kindly,
> Stephen


It can a little bit. Some ammo is loaded a little lighter for target use. Some is loaded a little hotter. This can change the recoil impulse a little bit. How much is felt or observed in increased recoil or muzzle rise can depend on the ammo, the firearm and the shooter.

A heavier gun is not going to move as much under recoil as a lighter one And differences between different ammo may not be as noticeable. Newer shooters may have a less aggressive grip and also just not be as aware of minor nuances in the way the handgun feels from one load to the next. I know that I didn’t notice much difference when I was a new shooter.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Try other brands too, because some guns are more accurate with different brands.

My Beretta PX4 Compact will function with Winchester White Box, but accuracy opens up tremendously. If I shoot Blazer Brass or something else, it shoots tight groups.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

This is great gentlemen, thank you. I am going to be curious to see how the gun fires in warmer temperatures (not even sure if that matters). It was 41 degrees out…my instructor said her pistol felt sluggish, although she hadn’t cleaned it for a while which surprised me as she is an instructor and a competitive shooter. 

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

lz33w7 said:


> This is great gentlemen, thank you. I am going to be curious to see how the gun fires in warmer temperatures (not even sure if that matters). It was 41 degrees out…my instructor said her pistol felt sluggish, although she hadn’t cleaned it for a while which surprised me as she is an instructor and a competitive shooter.
> 
> Kindly,
> Stephen



You are going to discover that there are all sorts of instructors, like there are all sorts of people. Some are better than others. Some teach things that other instructors would find dangerous, or just plain wrong. So, while you are learning, you still have to realize that each instructor is teaching you thru their lens.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

You are spot on with that Shipwreck

This is what I am trying to figure out - unless it’s safer when racking the slide:

She was telling me to hold it here 









V. Holding it here:









and I wasn’t quite sure why? Safety maybe? If I rack the slide where I am pointing in the first picture…I end up hitting the site with my fingers…hurts like *__*, and being in the cold made it worse….so again….personal preference????

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I usually use the rear of the slide. It wasn't until recently I had guns with front slide serrations, but I still like using the rear better.

But, with the Beretta, I find that many people push the slide back using the curved, front end of the slide. I don't do that, but I see it on many youtube shooting videos.

It's all personal preference. Remember - you said she is a competition shooter. So, that is something that she probably finds works for her.

I personally never use the front serrations to work the slide. I find that using the back 1/2 of the slide works for me, and I get a better grip on the slide. Plus, it keeps my hand away from the front of the gun. It's also more intuitive for me. I've tried a few times using the front 1/2, but I don't like it. I've also been shooting for over 30 years - that is just my personal preference over time. I don't care to change now.

Do what works for you. Realize that if you keep paying for this instructor, and have more classes with her - you may want to do it "her way" while you are in the class. Then do what you wish later.

If I remember right - didn't you say that after shooting, she had you retract the gun back towards your chest? That's something that competition shooters do. When I shot competition, it is something most do. But when I am at the range, just target shooting, I don't do that.

Once again - personal preference.

Pick up the safety rules, and the techniques with the trigger and holding the gun. The rest - find what you like best. You'll find THAT part out over time.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Correct, in that she had me bring my pistol back to my chest and yes, she competes regularly. I actually had a choice to go with an instructor who is a competition shooter or is not a competition shooter. 

In some weird way I thought that because she shoot’s competitively, and during competition there might be a string of safety rules that need to be followed…I might better learn all this from her v. a non competitive shooter…if that makes sense?

And please let me know if I ask too many questions…looks like I am filling up the forum with all my posts…but I am hoping that if there are some people afraid to ask that I am helping them 😀👍.

I figured over time I might make some changes but until then…I will try and follow a strict regiment..even if it’s overkill. Being methodical I think is the best approach for me.

Appreciate all your continued guidance and from the Forum.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Forums are here to answer questions. So don’t feel bad about asking for more info or clarification.

Front slide serrations became kind of trendy for folks who like to “press check” their chamber to see if it is loaded. (Slightly pushing the slide back part way to look in the chamber.). Proper technique would involve reaching the serrations from under the pistol and keeping the support hand away from the muzzle. Reaching over the top or using front serrations without proper technique could place the hand in front of the muzzle, which is not exactly safe.

many guns don’t really require a ”press check” as they feature a loaded chamber indicator of some kind. On most Beretta pistols you can simply put your finger on the extractor and if it is sticking up higher than the surface of the slide near the chamber end, then there is a round in there. If. It is even with the slide, the chamber is empty.


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## Lewguitar (2 mo ago)

SouthernBoy said:


> I have never had to use my sidearm in defense of self or others so my choice of ammunition (caliber and load) is not based upon actual use but rather from fairly extensive research. That said, for the 9mm my two choices are, in no particular order, the Federal 124 grain HST in +P and the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHP, also in +P..


That was honest. Thank you! I'm the same in that I've never needed to pull a handgun on anyone. Anyways, I do carry a Beretta Bobcat when I'm hiking in the mountains in Colorado, and I like the CCi Stingers (or "Stangers") best. I do a lot of target shooting and keep the gun clean. Every 50 rounds minimum. Never had a jam. I've seen videos of the gun jamming but so far, it's never happened to me. But I'm pretty obsessive about keeping it clean and oiled.


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