# I bought a Taurus 9mm PT 111 Millennium G2 today



## Aheadshot (Oct 17, 2014)

Today I added a Taurus PT 111 Millennium G2 9mm to my gun collection. It has two 12 +1 rounds magazines. I'm looking for members opinions about this automatic pistol. Thanks members...:smt1099


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I just Googled it and the review was quite positive. They called it a bargain for $349 price tag.
Goldwing


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

I have the PT 111 Millenium Pro since years (that is the first series of this gun). Many will tell you that they just plain hate Taurus products. I don't know what happen to Taurus in the past. But I can say that I have this Millennium gun in 9 mm, it eats whatever I feed as long its 9mm Luger ammo, never had a hick up and my gun is at least 6-7 years old and had thousand and thousand of rounds trough it. It is my winter EDC carry gun. I like how it feels and shoots. When I bought it I had the Heini sights on it. I never felt OK with that and changed the sights to William sights. Other than that, the gun is better than a old original Volkswagen Bug. It works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works and Works ...............


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

What? No Haters yet?


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## hud35500 (May 8, 2010)

I've owned a G2 for a couple years now and I'm very pleased with it. As a huge Sig fan and owner, I did quite a lot of research before I bought the G2. I carry it everyday and with over 1000 rounds fired, it's has proven itself to be accurate and reliable. I liked it so much, I bought one for my folks, who also love it!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Greybeard said:


> What? No Haters yet?


The term "hater" is essentially an _ad hominem_ attack against someone who holds an opinion which differs from yours.
People use _ad hominem_ attacks when they cannot reasonably refute the other's differing opinion. In an _ad hominem_ attack, the disputant attacks the person, since he can't refute the argument.

So, OK, I'll be your sacrificial "hater."

All of us here are glad that the Taurus pistol you bought works according to your expectations.
In the very recent past, many people have posted notes on this forum, detailing problems that they had been having with the various Taurus firearms they'd bought. Most of these problems cropped up in Taurus's semi-automatic pistols.
The general consensus seems to be that Taurus has quality-control problems, which makes buying a Taurus semi-automatic pistol something of a craps-shoot. Sometimes you get a good, functioning pistol. Sometimes you don't.
Many of those of us who carry a defensive weapon every day are unwilling to take the chance, carrying a save-your-life weapon which may, or may not, be reliable.

Therefore, we caution you: Do a lot of live-fire practice with your new Taurus pistol, and "wring it out" really well, before you ever stake your life on it.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1:


> The term "hater" is essentially an ad hominem attack against someone who holds an opinion which differs from yours.
> People use ad hominem attacks when they cannot reasonably refute the other's differing opinion. In an ad hominem attack, the disputant attacks the person, since he can't refute the argument.


*You couldn't have stated it any better!* What some of those who own and love Taurus products don't seem to understand is that comments regarding Taurus pistols are not directed at them. At least for me they are directed towards those who are considering purchasing Taurus products. There are many people who look to these forums as a valuable resource of information regarding different makes of firearms. People who have never owned a gun and are looking for something that their life may depend on. Knowing what I know, I could never in good conscience recommend that they purchase a firearm with a spotty reputation or one of inferior quality. It is a recipe for disaster. Facts are facts regarding Taurus products, and not just someone's opinion. As you say; "The general consensus seems to be that Taurus has quality-control problems". People are not just making this up, just for the hell of it, or to feel that they are superior to others because of their choice of firearm. Nothing could be further from the truth.

For those who cherish their Taurus pistols. Great, I am very happy for you. You've purchased something that makes you happy and are satisfied with. That's all that really counts.


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## DirtyDog (Oct 16, 2014)

I have given the PT111 G2 to both my son and my son-in-law. And yes, I actually think my SIL really IS good enough for my daughter, as unusual as that opinion may be for fathers. 
I wouldn't have done so if I didn't have confidence in the weapon. 
I use a PT111 as my primary EDC gun for about a year, and I've probably put 5000 rounds through mine. Flawless, accurate, comfortable to carry, comfortable to shoot, and with lots of high end features, especially for such an affordably priced gun.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

I shot mine (PT111Pro) yesterday again. 150 rounds of the freedom ammo 124 gr reman ammo and about 120 of mixed reloads (115gr, 124gr, 147gr) from my friend down the road. All FMJ. In addition about 70 rounds reloads from freedom ammo with 124 gr XTP. No hiccups, nothing to report besides nice to carry, nice to shoot and very accurate with the William sights on it.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

desertman said:


> Steve M1911A1:
> 
> *You couldn't have stated it any better!* What some of those who own and love Taurus products don't seem to understand is that comments regarding Taurus pistols are not directed at them. At least for me they are directed towards those who are considering purchasing Taurus products. There are many people who look to these forums as a valuable resource of information regarding different makes of firearms. People who have never owned a gun and are looking for something that their life may depend on. Knowing what I know, I could never in good conscience recommend that they purchase a firearm with a spotty reputation or one of inferior quality. It is a recipe for disaster. Facts are facts regarding Taurus products, and not just someone's opinion. As you say; "The general consensus seems to be that Taurus has quality-control problems". People are not just making this up, just for the hell of it, or to feel that they are superior to others because of their choice of firearm. Nothing could be further from the truth.
> 
> For those who cherish their Taurus pistols. Great, I am very happy for you. You've purchased something that makes you happy and are satisfied with. That's all that really counts.


Word!!!

I agree with this post and Steve's. Sorry, my life is worth more to me than a Taurus. My guns are not just for range use.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Went with friends to the shooting range and shot beside others the Taurus PT111Pro again. Fired 50 rounds of reloads from a friend trough it. 115gr FMJ and not a single issue to report today. Everything went fine. 
The Walther PPX M1 had 1 failure to feed with the reloads from Scorpion ammo FMJ 115gr. We think it was the ammo not the gun. But anyway.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Anyways, congrats on the new G2 OP! I have the same one you have in your picture, it is right beside me now, and mine has ran just fine for me. Good shooting gun. :smt1099


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> Shipwreck
> Sorry, my life is worth more to me than a Taurus. My guns are not just for range use.


And above what prize TAG would your life be worth to trust a gun, or is it more about manufacturers brand names?
I trust Heckler & Koch. The brand-name and the Prize-TAG is trustworthy. Right?


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I actually carry an HK p2000 every day now. Yes, I would trust an HK 1000x more than a Taurus. Honestly, if someone gave me. Taurus, I would just sell it unfired, and use the money for a gun I would trust. 

Beretta 92 is hands down my favorite platform, but with back problems, I cannot carry that much weight on my side anymore.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

PT111Pro:


> And above what prize TAG would your life be worth to trust a gun, or is it more about manufacturers brand names?


No, it has nothing to do with brand names and everything to do with brands that have a good solid reputation. There are a lot of good quality handguns from reputable manufacturers that can be purchased for between $400 and $500 depending on caliber. You do not need to spend over $1000 for one. There are also a lot of great guns on the used market. Sure, you can spend $300 for one of questionable quality, but will another $100 or $200 even $300 for a better one really break the bank? I would hope that your life or that of another would be worth at least that much. Many guns that are on the used market have been seldom fired. I've bought quite a few myself including a rarely used Beretta 92FS Inox for around five and change. Actually I consider it to be better than the new ones as there are no plastic parts. Obviously, I would stay away from used guns that looked like they were used for other purposes such as hammering nails, a pry bar or anything else that the previous owner could possibly think of. After all if they didn't give a shit about what the outside looks like you can be damn sure they didn't give a shit about the inside either. This of course does not include normal holster wear.

I know you love your Taurus handgun. But as for me I would never be comfortable carrying anything that my life may depend on from a manufacturer that has had so many issues.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> desertman
> I know you love your Taurus handgun.


No - you got that very wrong. I don't love my Taurus handgun. This (my personal PT111) handgun has proven to be very reliable over the years and not only months. The gun had fired not Hundreds of Rounds trough it, it had fired way more than 10 000 rounds with not a single hiccup and it will fire many, many more without any issue. I promise, I bet very comfortable my life on this particular gun.


> desertman
> But as for me I would never be comfortable carrying anything that my life may depend on from a manufacturer that has had so many issues.


I don't care for manufacturers. I don't care about the internet and the so called gun specialists there. Should I count here all the issues that I had the last 2-3 years with the so called trusted brand names? You really want to know? It would be a long and a very frustrating list.

My guns are for Range use too. My PPX for example I would never carry. A nice range gun but carrying that gun? That thing has for my taste a to nervous trigger. The Taurus 92 and my Beretta 92 both are bricks that I don't want to carry on a daily base. But home defense. Hey!!

At the Moment and for a while now I carry a M&P Shield 9. But not because I trust the Brand S&W, I had with S&W really the last 2 years very many issues with the shield 9 and the M&P 40. I carry the secont M&P Shield because I fired a lot trough that particular gun and it looks like it would reliable fire if I need to. 
S&W haha and what about the Sigmas?

I didn't say all the Taurus guns are good and reliable. But I didn't say all the S&W guns are good and reliable either. I say my PT111Pro and my Taurus PT 92SS, are good and reliable. But I didn't say that all the S&W M&P Shield9 are good and reliable guns. I said my second M&P Shield 9 is a reliable gun. That is a big difference.

I'm not a Taurus fan and not a S&W fan. I come out of the Walther and H&K corner. That my favorite guns. I carry Walther since I'm 16 years old. My first gun that I had was the Birthday present that my Grandpa gave me. It was a 32 acp Walther PPK. Since than I carry all the Walther and know the plus and the minus of that guns. I also like the HK guns. I had in the service a P30LS and my private backup was a Walther P 5 in 9X19. That are my favorite Gun Brands, the others are nice products too but they are not Walther or a HK. The HK for real and the Walthers as a cheaper alternative.

Walther has a very good name and the new CCP, I would not trust further than I can comfortable throw that thing, more than that you can barely do with it. That to a well known and trusted brand.
I only write when a entire Brand is taking to the south only because others say so and the neighbors kid had a friend in school and their uncle knows someone that walked once along the Taurus manufacturer fence and had overheated two girls that said.....

And used guns for carry? I mean really a used gun for personal defense? And that is somehow supposedly better than a new PT 111 G2? A Glock that was rarely shot but used as a hammer to build the garage? Go ahead, - but come one. A used gun for carry? Really? WoW - no wait, than just give me my personal Taurus PT 111 Pro back. Or give me my more than 40 year old PPK in 32 acp back. I know at least what they do when I pull the trigger.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Shipwreck said:


> I actually carry an HK p2000 every day now. Yes, I would trust an HK 1000x more than a Taurus. Honestly, if someone gave me. Taurus, I would just sell it unfired, and use the money for a gun I would trust.
> 
> Beretta 92 is hands down my favorite platform, but with back problems, I cannot carry that much weight on my side anymore.


If I could afford the HK 2000, I would carry one too! I have held them, and a guy I know owns one (shot his), and I could not imagine not liking that HK...or any HK for that matter. HK is a wonderful gun manufacturer, but the closest I could come to one would MAYBE be the VP9.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

> Walther has a very good name and the new CCP, I would not trust further than I can comfortable throw that thing, more than that you can barely do with it. That to a well known and trusted brand.


Unfortunately, it is NOT a very good Walther gun. An airgun company owns Walther, and many of the "Walther" guns are actually made in a different plant by the airgun company (who also make many 22 guns for other gun companies) The PPQ, P99 and PPS are "real" walthers.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

@ Berettatrotter. The VP9 is a great Glock clone. But why than not buying the cheaper Glock 19 in the first place?


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

@Shipwreck
Yes, - it is sad what they do with the Walther brand. But that is because quota people are politically correct pushed in positions that they really don't belong and they are allowed to make decisions.... Sad, it is so sad what they do. But there are bail outs and stimulus payments when it goes wrong, but... well....


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I've owned 5 or 6 Walthers in the past - but they were "real" ones. They were good guns


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

I personally think it comes down to putting enough rounds through the pistol in order to establish the confidence to use it for a carry piece. If it is going to have issues they will pop up within the 250-350 round wear in period. Any piece Taurus, Sig, S&W, and even Glock should be range worn in before trusting it as a carry piece. If I needed a carry piece and could not put it through the ware in break in 250-350 round period, I'd just buy a Glock (even though I think they are BUTT UGLY)...lol


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

berettatoter said:


> If I could afford the HK 2000, I would carry one too! I have held them, and a guy I know owns one (shot his), and I could not imagine not liking that HK...or any HK for that matter. HK is a wonderful gun manufacturer, but the closest I could come to one would MAYBE be the VP9.


Prices have dropped on them. They are down to $$600-$625 now - with standard sights. I paid $707 for my P2000 with 3 mags a factory night sights. The P2000sk I bought about 2-3 weeks later was $625 locally. So, they are much cheaper than before. Word is they are being discontinued in favor of the P30sk coming out


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Greybeard said:


> I personally think it comes down to putting enough rounds through the pistol in order to establish the confidence to use it for a carry piece. If it is going to have issues they will pop up within the 250-300 round wear in period. Any piece Taurus, Sig, S&M, and even Glock should be range worn in before trusting it as a carry piece (JMHO)


This IS true for any gun. I always put rounds thru it, and some JHP rounds before I carry it. But, others have stated it more eloquently than I can - I wouldn't get a Taurus under any circumstances. Sorry. And, the # of guns I have owned over the years is really up there. I did once own a Taurus PT22 - bought it almost 20 years ago. Sold it many years back.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

Hahah yes 
and I owned a Whirlpool Refrigerator, a Maytag Washer and also a Pontiac Coup way in the past may be 30-35 years ago, and I would after that never ever trust any US Brand again. Whirlpool, Maytag, Pontiac, GM no thank you.


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

I think we have all had brands we would never buy again. Years ago (1970's) I bought a Traynor (made in Canada) Bass guitar amplifier. It was broke down more than it was working and when you are on the road, that is a huge pain in the butt. Last year I bought one of their new Bass heads thinking that they couldn't be as bad as before but, guess what, it is just as bad as before and is broken down now. Taurus guns are priced $200-$300 below most other manufacturers offerings with similar features. From what you read on this forum, a larger than average percentage of them need to be sent back to the factory for repair within the 250-350 break in period. So, when you buy a Taurus and save the $200-$300 you are taking a bigger than average chance of having to send it back for repairs.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Greybeard said:


> ...So, when you buy a Taurus and save the $200-$300 you are taking a bigger than average chance of having to send it back for repairs.


Hater! :anim_lol: :smt083

(Sorry...the Devil made me do it.)


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hater! :anim_lol: :smt083
> 
> (Sorry...the Devil made me do it.)


I actually like my little Taurus TCP, especially since it has passed the break-in, ware-in period. I define *Hater* as someone who jumps on every positive post, in this case Taurus, with a bunch of negative comments. And it is almost like a cut a paste thing. (saves time)


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## DirtyDog (Oct 16, 2014)

desertman said:


> PT111Pro:
> I know you love your Taurus handgun. But as for me I would never be comfortable carrying anything that my life may depend on from a manufacturer that has had so many issues.


What kind of car do you drive?
Do you smoke?
How much alcohol do you consume in a month?
How often do you exercise?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

PT111Pro:


> And used guns for carry? I mean really a used gun for personal defense?


Unless you've never put a single round through it, the gun your carrying now is a used gun.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

DirtyDog:


> What kind of car do you drive?
> Do you smoke?
> How much alcohol do you consume in a month?
> How often do you exercise?


I drive a truck and for fun antique cars.
Never smoked.
Not much.
Every day.

What has this got to do with anything?


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## DirtyDog (Oct 16, 2014)

desertman said:


> DirtyDog:
> 
> I drive a truck and for fun antique cars.
> Never smoked.
> ...


Because I want to see what the safety record is for the other things in life that are FAR more likely to kill you than a gun malfunction.
What kind of truck? Do you race these cars? Do you wear your seatbelt? Shoulder belt? Racing harness?


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> desertman
> Unless you've never put a single round through it, the gun your carrying now is a used gun


Yea - now since you mentioned it. I see it now too. But at least I used it and know exactly for what purpose, I know exactly what I did, what the gun did or didn't do and so on. I like a I used my gun. But I don't trust a someone that I don't even know gun, what the gun was involved in, out of a Pawn shop probably even stolen and or the other guy had probably not done anything wrong with it. Suuuure - you can trust it.

I want so say it this way. I like to have one gun, if I can't afford more than 1 gun that I only owned and that I can trust, before I go and support burglaries by buying a gun that no one really knows where it comes from out of a Pawn shop. I don't believe that 5 guns that was sold because the previous owner was dissatisfied with the gun and want to get rid of it for some reason is better than a Taurus, that had proven to the owner while the owner used it over months and years to be reliable.

One gun regardless of the brand that I can proven trust is better than 5 unknown guns with issues out of a Pawn or fly by night on a gun show. The previous owner will know why he bought for example a Glock or a S&W for 500 Dollar and more, and sold it to a Pawnshop for 80 Dollar (by experience) thereafter. That must have a reason that I probably don't like. 
Me for example sold my Shield9 # 1 for 75 Dollar to a Pawn shop, because I was sick and tired of the constantly issues that I had with that gun. That gun was more on a trip from and to repairs than in my house. That was the reason I sold it for 75 Dollars. My Shield 9 # 2 is a true reliable carry gun.

Just thinking.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

DirtyDog said:


> Because I want to see what the safety record is for the other things in life that are FAR more likely to kill you than a gun malfunction.
> What kind of truck? Do you race these cars? Do you wear your seatbelt? Shoulder belt? Racing harness?


So, all that justifies buying a Taurus? Geeze.

We will never convince the Taurus fans, and they will never convince us...


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

DirtyDog:
The truck I drive is from a reputable manufacture and is one that is not plagued with problems otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. The antique cars are not meant for racing, besides because of their age they do not go very fast anyway. Not that I'd want to, I've put too much into them. Oh, yeah I did install seat belts and use them. I also restored them myself every nut bolt and washer, so I know that they are safe to drive.

I see no valid reason for buying any product from any manufacturer that has poor quality control issues. *Whether your life depends on it or not.* You are more than likely taking a chance of having it fail prematurely, wishing that you had bought something better in the first place.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

PT111Pro:
You're assuming that every used gun is either stolen or used in a crime or is a worthless piece of junk. Nothing could be further from the truth. Licensed gun dealers and yes pawn shops have to check to make sure that the guns they sell are not stolen. Otherwise they will go out of business or at least lose the money that they paid for them. As far as crime guns; Although it could happen, I doubt that too many criminals would sell to pawn shops or licensed dealers either, especially when they could sell to other criminals on the street. Why would they want to take a chance on opening themselves up to any kind of scrutiny?

I have worked on firearms long enough to know whether they are in good working order or not. I have owned and bought both new and used guns and have, as of yet to have any issues with them. Sorry to dis-apoint you again but I would never buy a product from a manufacturer that has had so many issues such as Taurus. And yes I would trust my life to any used gun from a reputable manufacturer that I have checked over than a brand new one from Taurus.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Shipwreck:


> So, all that justifies buying a Taurus? Geeze.


That's usually what happens when they have nothing to support their argument. Hell, it doesn't bother me that they own and like Taurus products. It's a free country at least for now. My only goal is to help inform others in making a decision when purchasing a firearm. I could never recommend Taurus. So be it. It doesn't ruin my day.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

desertman said:


> Shipwreck:
> That's usually what happens when they have nothing to support their argument. Hell, it doesn't bother me that they own and like Taurus products. It's a free country at least for now. My only goal is to help inform others in making a decision when purchasing a firearm. I could never recommend Taurus. So be it. It doesn't ruin my day.


Yes and yes.
I'll think that nails it.

I try to convince you guys that you shouldn't buy a Glock and you guys should better buy a Heckler and Koch and what happen? Right you guys still believe Glock is the best thing ever after the invention of the wheel even better than a Bersa. 
But you could easy find a used HK in Pawn shops that are still very good and often rarely shot. 
Just check the crime reports locally and you know when to go and buy. My neighbor told me first when I arrived in Texas, that when in a certain area burglaries happen than is the right time to buy jewelry, TV's and computers in Pawn shops.
And take a driver license with you he said, they check if you got one. You can pay with your wife credit card they really don't care much. And it's true, I can everywhere pay with my wife credit cart even if I'm very far from looking like a Nancy.

I told you not to buy a Glock and you and you too still do it and think a Glock is better or equal to a Heckler & Koch. Well it's a free country at the moment and no one can say I didn't tell before. 
So shall it be.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm not really a Glock fan, but I would take them all day long over a Taurus.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

It's OK no one ask you to. If someone don't feel right with a gun regardless of the issue itself, s/he should never carry that gun regardless of the brand. No one will ask me to trust a Glock either and if I still wouldn't carry one.

But you mean it this way. If I sit in a street-coffee and a intruder/criminal/rober threatens to shoot everyone and s/he holds a Taurus in his/her hands, I don't have to be worry, it is not in my business and just eat my danish and drink my coffee, because the Taurus is not reliable enough and will not go off anyway. Right?

Well I hope you guys don't get me wrong but I would still take it very serious, leave if I can and shoot before I get shot if I had too, because I believe that Taurus guns are threat-full if someone pulls it out and aims at me. They work amazingly fine in my house. Trust me, I have some and they did always go bang if I pulled the trigger and none of them in the last 8 years let me down. Just saying.


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

Well, the OP DID ask for members opinions. When you ask for opinions, all bets are off.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

Greybeard said:


> My point in all this of is not that Taurus detractors shouldn't give their opinions when asked, it is that the OP posted he had just bought something he liked and was proud of and the detractor ((haters) I couldn't help myself) have to chime in with a bunch of negative comments, raining on the OP's parade (so to speak). If I post a question like "What do you think of Taurus quality control? Then I expect those with issues to let me know their opinion. But, if I post something like "I've been saving for a while and I just bought a Taurus Judge, really like it". I don't want to read about how someone thinks Taurus quality is junk. I'm not trying to discredit those with quality control issues, I just get tired of reading the SOS on every Taurus post.


Please see post #2:smt083

GW


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Greybeard said:


> Well, the OP DID ask for members opinions. When you ask for opinions, all bets are off.


This is correct. Had the original poster said - Hey, look at my gun." I would just - "nice gun. congrats!"

However, he asked for opinions....


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Greybeard said:


> Well, the OP DID ask for members opinions. When you ask for opinions, all bets are off.





Shipwreck said:


> This is correct. Had the original poster said - Hey, look at my gun." I would just - "nice gun. congrats!"
> 
> However, he asked for opinions....


...And then, some member tried to stir the pot by asking whether or not a "hater" was going to join the conversation.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

We have yet another Taurus horror story...er, I mean, Hater Fodder.
Click on: http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/44599-low-price-misleading-warranty.html


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

To the OP. I've only owned 1 Taurus gun and it is a TCP .380. It functions properly without issues other than the mag being a little quirky. I bought a pro-mag ($18) and now it is fine. From what I have read on this forum, you have a better than average chance of a Taurus gun having issues than those from other makers. The PT111 is a really nice gun, nice feel, descent trigger, and it has a lot of the features people are looking for. I hope you got a good one. 

Note: Google "M&P Shield issues" or "Kahr cm9 issues" or " (fill in the blank) issues" and see what you find.


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## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

> Graybeard
> Note: Google "M&P Shield issues" or "Kahr cm9 issues" or " (fill in the blank) issues" and see what you find


That may be true, but that don't count. Only Taurus issue count, all the others are OK even if they not. But well if someone spend 600 Dollars for a gun that you loose between the change in the pocket and at the top you have quality issues with it you would hate to tell that you were stupid to buy that thing in the first place. For 600 Dollar may be even have to make monthly payments on the LGS for it must be good, regardless.

Well it is this way, when a perpetrator pulls the gun out and you can see it is a Taurus, than don't worry, the gun doesn't work, so they say here on the forum. Taurus guns are not reliable they say. But somehow I have my doubts its true. Somehow I have the feeling there are working some Gun manufacturers in fear to have to lower the price Tag if the customer realize that a cheaper gun does the same than the gun the people make payments for.

A prize tag on a product comes not from manufacturing costs. The prize Tag comes from the peoples opinion and the manufacturers marketing department or do you really believe that the identical gun in 22 is so much cheaper to manufacture than the 40 S&W chambered?


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Shipwreck said:


> Unfortunately, it is NOT a very good Walther gun. An airgun company owns Walther, and many of the "Walther" guns are actually made in a different plant by the airgun company (who also make many 22 guns for other gun companies) The PPQ, P99 and PPS are "real" walthers.


I did not know that.


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## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

PT111Pro said:


> @ Berettatrotter. The VP9 is a great Glock clone. But why than not buying the cheaper Glock 19 in the first place?


I had a G19, a couple of years ago, and stupidly traded it off on a rifle. I don't do that anymore...I keep everything I buy. The one I had was a gen3 gun, and most certainly would buy another.


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## firefighter120 (Dec 30, 2015)

Love my PT 111 G2. I can find bad experiences with every make and model if you look around. Just like Ford or Chevy, foreign or demestic, etc. To each his own. Congrats on your new gun!


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

From a recent post on this forum: "Taurus m 608"


> Taurus m 608
> So I ordered this gun in May 2015 m608 tracker 6.5 in barrel and vent with ports, I had bought my dad a tracker many years ago and love the gun and wanted one of my own. So in December 2015 it finally came in. Was excited and took it to shoot that same day. I found it to have something wrong with cyclender and it was jamming when you shot it past 5 shots . took it back to gun counter where I bought it and they told me to send it back to the manufacturer I was just so disappointed because this was a 620.00 gun and I traded a ruger I couldn't get back and wasted the money. Now I. Contacted taurus and it took 2 hrs on hold to have them send me a shipping label and they said 5 to 7 weeks on turn around. I also have a judge that is malfunctiong but afraid to send it in to them till I get my other one back. Just wondering if any one has had same issues and is taurus a cheaply made gun now and lost their reputation of is this just a fluke and I am just in lucky


There are just too many stories like this that are hard to ignore. The same thing happened to one of my neighbors. She bought one of Taurus' polymer revolvers a Model 85. The damn thing locked up when she tried to dry fire it. It was brand new straight out of the box. She tried to return it, but the store wouldn't take it back she was told that it had to be sent back to the factory for repairs. She really didn't know jack shit about guns and as a real estate agent felt she needed it for protection. Hopefully she wouldn't need it when it was back at the factory for repairs. Sorry to burst all of the Taurus' fans bubble, but it is what it is.

Sure every manufacturer turns out a lemon once in a while but with Taurus it's bushels full of lemons.


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## Livingthedream (Feb 27, 2016)

desertman said:


> From a recent post on this forum: "Taurus m 608"
> 
> There are just too many stories like this that are hard to ignore. The same thing happened to one of my neighbors. She bought one of Taurus' polymer revolvers a Model 85. The damn thing locked up when she tried to dry fire it. It was brand new straight out of the box. She tried to return it, but the store wouldn't take it back she was told that it had to be sent back to the factory for repairs. She really didn't know jack shit about guns and as a real estate agent felt she needed it for protection. Hopefully she wouldn't need it when it was back at the factory for repairs. Sorry to burst all of the Taurus' fans bubble, but it is what it is.
> 
> Sure every manufacturer turns out a lemon once in a while but with Taurus it's bushels full of lemons.


I can attest to that !!!!


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