# First time family gun owner



## justlovetofish (Feb 8, 2012)

New to the forum, have some opinion questions. I've discussed with my wife about purchasing a self defense weapon and she agrees. so within our budget and caliber suited for her I've came up with these picks I think will be suitable for me and my wife, now Im not new to handguns, I have owned a Ruger P345 and loved it. Although I want to get the same one I think the caliber will be a little much for my wife. so here are my picks

Ruger P95
Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 S&W
Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm/40 S&W

Opinions please, I've seen a bunch of reviews and videos. Wanted to get a different opinion from the Forum


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## FNISHR (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, my five-foot zero, 95 pound secretary borrowed my Glock 17 to take her beginner's class with, and loved it. I really like the idea of starting the ladies off on a 9mm, but YMMV. Welcome to the forum.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

I dunno I think .40 is snappier than .45. Not much difference in recoil there. I'm guessing your wife has shot a .40 cal and has no issues with recoil. I've never owned or shot except a {sigma in 9mm} the above mentioned pistols but Taurus has a following of non believers, but I've seen good reviews on the Taurus. I shot a sigma back in the 90's and had a awful long trigger and I don't know much about the Ruger. CDNN has Beretta PX4 Storms for a very low price of 439.00 and is heads and tails above all the pistols you have mentioned.Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few.


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## TedDeBearFrmHell (Jul 1, 2011)

welcome from southern oregon


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## chessail77 (Mar 15, 2011)

Welcome from snowy AZ.....S&W has a lifetime warranty and excellent customer service...wife and I took a two day defensive handgun course with two Sigmas....as above the 9mm will be best for wife as stated above less recoil...9mm has plenty of excellent home defense and self defense rounds and will dio the job just fine...JJ


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

justlovetofish said:


> New to the forum, have some opinion questions. I've discussed with my wife about purchasing a self defense weapon and she agrees. so within our budget and caliber suited for her I've came up with these picks I think will be suitable for me and my wife, now Im not new to handguns, I have owned a Ruger P345 and loved it. Although I want to get the same one I think the caliber will be a little much for my wife. so here are my picks
> 
> Ruger P95
> Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 S&W
> ...


The P95 is a great gun. I have heard good things with the Sigma, but no personal experience. I personally have not had any luck with any taurus. I loved my snubnosed revolver but accuracy just wasn't there even at some close ranges so that pretty much turned me off to Taurus. I would say if it is something your wife will be shooting, saying she hasn't shot much, a 9mm would be a safe bet. My wife hasn't shot much and she shot my full sized M&P .40. It didn't bother her too bad. The compact did bother her alittle though. She opted for the M&P 9mm. Also remember that the bigger the gun the easier it i sto shoot. So if she isn't carrying it and it will just be for HD a full sized will be your best bet. Also something heavy will eat some of the recoil also.

On a side note do what I did. Take your wife to the gun store(s) and let her feel of a few guns. Find something that she thinks feels good. Then is possible let her shoot it. My wife was dead set on a LC9 but after holding it side by side with the M&P she quickly changed her mind. Also are you looking to keep it in a certain price range? Ruger, Glock, S&W, Springfield, Walther are all great guns and not too bad priced you should be looking into. If you want to go up in price you can go with a Sig.



denner said:


> I dunno I think .40 is snappier than .45. Not much difference in recoil there. I'm guessing your wife has shot a .40 cal and has no issues with recoil. I've never owned or shot except a {sigma in 9mm} the above mentioned pistols but Taurus has a following of non believers, but I've seen good reviews on the Taurus. I shot a sigma back in the 90's and had a awful long trigger and I don't know much about the Ruger. CDNN has Beretta PX4 Storms for a very low price of 439.00 *and is heads and tails above all the pistols you have mentioned*.Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few.


You forgot to put in your opinion. I shot one the other day and I can honestly say I wasn't impressed with the feel, the way it shot, the way the trigger felt, etc. No, I didn't have any hiccups. To me it was no where near above heads or tails over the ones you mentioned. I have owned, and still own the M&P's, and I would pick any of the ones you mentioned over the PX4. Like I said I, and for that matter my cousin and two of my buddies wasn't all that impressed with it. I am sticking with my M&Ps, my cousin traded the PX4 for another Glock, and my other friend is sticking with his H&K and Walthers.

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying it was bad. Everyone likes what they like. but, it sounded at least to me as if you was telling the OP that it was heads and tails above those mentioned bar none no questions asked and that just isn't true. I would have no problems recommending on, but could I without any hesitation say it is better than any other quality handgun. No way in ****. Now is it better than Taurus , Kahr, Kel-Tec, Hi-Point, etc. I do believe so, but that is my opnion.


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## justlovetofish (Feb 8, 2012)

thanx everybody for your inputs and welcomes, I took her to the range for the first time and let her shoot a .40. watching her, i thought the recoil of the gun we rented was a little much for her, although after her first round she handled it pretty well. We tested a ruger .40, i believe to be one of the newer styles and i wasnt happy with it. it jammed on us like 6 times. i had the gun ranger supervisor test it, he loaded a full clip and it jammed on him. I personally like the ruger p345 style with the hammer. these other rugers without the hammer, to me, are copy cats of the glock. i still have research to do, and more time at the range with my wife.


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## Leo (Jul 1, 2010)

Welcome to the forum! From your posts, I knew you preferred the hammer guns. However, the Ruger striker pistols in the SR series (SR9, SR9c, SR40 & SR40c) are excellent pistols, especially the compact ones which are great for concealed carry as well.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Brevard13 said:


> You forgot to put in your opinion. I shot one the other day and I can honestly say I wasn't impressed with the feel, the way it shot, the way the trigger felt, etc. No, I didn't have any hiccups. To me it was no where near above heads or tails over the ones you mentioned. I have owned, and still own the M&P's, and I would pick any of the ones you mentioned over the PX4. Like I said I, and for that matter my cousin and two of my buddies wasn't all that impressed with it. I am sticking with my M&Ps, my cousin traded the PX4 for another Glock, and my other friend is sticking with his H&K and Walthers.


Well, I believe you misunderstood my post and of course you are entitled to your opinion, I own two PX4's, liked the first so much I got another and unlike what you and your friends and your cousin's subcribe to, I disagree. But to say a Ruger P95 is any way on the level of a Beretta PX4, I'd beg to differ and find amusing. I personally prefer the PX4 over Glock, M&P, SIG or H&K, and for the price it's a bargain. But to each their own. When I mentioned Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few I was giving the poster some better options, but said the pistols that "he" had mentioned the PX4 Storm in my opinion is head and shoulders above and like his day out on the range w/ the Ruger, I suspect he won't have any jams with a PX4. If the poster prefers a DA/SA pistol in his price range or perhaps a little more he'd be very well served to try a PX4. I'm very impressed with the way my PX4's shoot, the feel, the reliability and the trigger.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

denner said:


> Well, you're entitled to your opinion, I own two PX4's and unlike what you and your friends and your cousin's subcribe to, I disagree. I prefer PX4 over all the pistols you and your friends and cousin susbcribe to, but that's your personnel opinion. But to say a Ruger P95 is any way on the level of a Beretta PX4, I'd beg to differ and find amusing. I personally prefer the PX4 over Glock, M&P, SIG or H&K, and for the price it's a bargain. But to each their own. When I mentioned Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few i was giving the poster some better options, but said the pistols that "he" had mentioned the PX4 Storm in my opinion is head and shoulders above and like his day out on the range w/ the Ruger, I suspect he won't have any jams with a PX4.


Not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. Glad you love yours. However, you said "heads and tails above" like it was fact. And it is NOT fact. That is your opinion. Which is totally fine for you to have. What is heads and tails better for you is not heads and tails better for someone else. Every gun we shot from the 3 Ruger P series (that I borrowed from my uncle to shoot); to all 3 of my M&P's; my buddies H&K P2000 and his Walthers; my cousins Glocks and his XD. We all thought they performed better than the PX4. Of course you know that is just 4 of us and OUR opinions. Would you like me to say my M&P was heads and tails better than the PX4, because to me with the same ammo it was, but, alas that is my opinion (as well as the others that were there that day). I will not pass that off as a fact I can't prove because not only is everyone's taste differrent but hand sizes also. I am not a huge fan of the Glocks. My cousin loves them. To him the Glock felt, and performed better. He was more than happy to swap the PX4 for another Glock.

I shot a Ruger P95 beside the PX4. I was more accurate with the Ruger. To me it felt better, definitely looked better. I have never had any problems with any of mine. One had well over 1500+ shots on it. Unfortunately, I had to sell them due to having to pay bills and stuff. To me it has been the closest thing to my M&P as far as feel and accuracy wise. Something which the PX4 didn't do when we shot it. My cousin had 2 jams with the PX4, but he was shooting reloads someone else did so in no way shape or form can I blame the gun. Like I said I would own one, seemed like it would be a decent gun. you can find it amusing that I put the Ruger over the PX4, that is fine by me, as I find it amusing you put the PX4 above all others.

You may have been giving him other ideas. Even after going back and re-reading it to me it sounded like you were saying the PX4 was head and should above the glocks, M&P's, xds, Walthers, etc. I won't say he shouldn't try one out. He may like it. I personally wasn't fond of it. Of course I have not found a Beretta yet that I was fond of. Now, I am not saying don't give your opinions. Just please don't try to say one is heads and tails better than the other unless you have some proof. Especially, when it comes to someone who is new to handguns, or just guns inparticular. Now, you say the PX4 is heads and tails better than Taurus, kel-Tec, Bersa, Hi-Point, Sccy, etc. then you have a valid point. :smt033. I also won't lie and say it isn't a good price, especially for that gun. However, prices differ in different places. I think the PX4 here is higher. I will have to look tomorrow when I go.

As far as guns on the ranges. I have learned to take them with a grain of salt. I shot an M&P that jammed and misfed a bunch. Come to find out the guns hadn't been cleaned in 3 weeks due to all of their range guns getting replaced in the next few days. Guy said he rented it out about 8 times the day before. Range guns see alot of wear and aren't cleaned the best in the world. That plus depending on the ammo he was shooting could have been a big result.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Brevard13 said:


> I shot a Ruger P95 beside the PX4. I was more accurate with the Ruger. To me it felt better, definitely looked better. I have never had any problems with any of mine. One had well over 1500+ shots on it. Unfortunately, I had to sell them due to having to pay bills and stuff. To me it has been the closest thing to my M&P as far as feel and accuracy wise. Something which the PX4 didn't do when we shot it. My cousin had 2 jams with the PX4, but he was shooting reloads someone else did so in no way shape or form can I blame the gun. Like I said I would own one, seemed like it would be a decent gun. you can find it amusing that I put the Ruger over the PX4, that is fine by me, as I find it amusing you put the PX4 above all others.QUOTE]
> 
> Again, you misunderstood my post. I did not put the PX4 above all others. I put the PX4 above:
> 
> ...


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

denner said:


> Brevard13 said:
> 
> 
> > I shot a Ruger P95 beside the PX4. I was more accurate with the Ruger. To me it felt better, definitely looked better. I have never had any problems with any of mine. One had well over 1500+ shots on it. Unfortunately, I had to sell them due to having to pay bills and stuff. To me it has been the closest thing to my M&P as far as feel and accuracy wise. Something which the PX4 didn't do when we shot it. My cousin had 2 jams with the PX4, but he was shooting reloads someone else did so in no way shape or form can I blame the gun. Like I said I would own one, seemed like it would be a decent gun. you can find it amusing that I put the Ruger over the PX4, that is fine by me, as I find it amusing you put the PX4 above all others.QUOTE]
> ...


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## Grayhair (Jan 31, 2012)

Simplicity is supreme.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I would suggest the 9 since you noticed the 40 was a bit much for her.I only own a Beretta 92 and did have a Smith 915 (5900 series) but I doubt the wife would find the 92 doable.

I've heard great reviews so far on the Walther PPQ.I don't like plastis but broke down for an HK in 45 and will never sell it.If I ever bought another plastic gun it would be an HK or a PPQ if they turn out as good as they sound.I know money is always a concern but I think it's worth the extra money to start off with quality.With maybe the exception of the PPQ and FNH,no other plastic gun is in the same league as HK.A little investigation shows they take one hell of a beating and continue to run,and their failure rate is probably the lowest in the industry.They are also a hammer gun which I like,for some reason I do not like striker guns.The Colt 1911 is my go to gun always,so I laugh when people say the HK is so expensive but they spend that or more on a 1911.If an HK does seem viable and you can try one,a used 9 can be had very reasonable.HKPRO forum always has good deals on used ones because some of those guys rotate their collections often.Full factory warranty for any owner,straight from their mouth too.Not trying to pull an HK ad here but they are that good.They were never built for us like just about everyone else's products,all their guns are designed for hard use in LE and military life so we get to take advantage of that ruggedness.Glock only aspires to be so good.


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## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

Welcome justlovetofish.:smt1099


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

justlovetofish said:


> self defense weapon


One important question was never asked or answered. Will this self defense weapon only be used for protection while in the home or will you or your wife be carrying it? If it is a home defense weapon only, a handgun is a poor choice. Long guns are always better. Handguns are for backing up a long gun, or for when a long gun is not practical or possible like when carrying in public.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

Long guns are not always better. I know girls that can't hold up a shotgun much less shoot one. Then you run into the risk of someone who has a shotgun walking through there house poking the barrel out the door and a bad guy grabs the gun. I do however agree though that for the most part a shotgun is usually a lot better. But, definitely not always.


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

Are you kidding? Barrel and stock length can be made to fit the user. And if someone doesn't know how to use their weapon to properly clear their house, they need training, not a smaller gun. Your logic is weak.


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

How many normal gun owners can PROPERLY clear their house? You have gun owners that might put 20-50 rounds through a gun and say it is ok for self defense. You have people who buy the cheapest priced gun with the false confidence that it will shoot everytime. These are also the same people who may never clean their guns. Yet you expect them to be able to PROPERLY clear a house. Alot of places don't offer the training to properly clear a house, yet someone who won't take the time to practice is going to attend those training classes. Yet my logic is weak???

With all that aside let's talk about long guns. Stocks. An adjustable stock can only shorten so much. I have held an adjustable stock that felt like it was too long when it was pushed all the way up. Now you are expecting some small framed woman to hold say a shotgun which (if like my wife) will find the gun heavy to begin with, then you are expecting that same person to be able to work the pump. Then you are running a 16" barrel. You are still going to be trying to clear your house with a 4ft gun. Any shorter you are getting into the SBR's and sawed off shotguns to which you will need a tax stamp to legally own. How many people are really going to go through the process of getting the paper work done, sent to the atf, wait for an answer, paying $200 just to get a stamp to get a shorter long gun. Not the normal gun owner. So you remove the stock and cut the barrel down on a shotgun the legal length without owning a tax stamp. At this point you just have a really big pistol with a great spread. Again, how is my logic weak?

Now brace yourself. Go back and re-read my first post. Nevermind, I will quote it for you.



> I do however agree though that for the most part a shotgun is usually a lot better. But, definitely not always.


See what I did there? "For the most part a shotgun". Not a rifle due to the possiblity of over penetration, I mean you did take that into consideration didn't you? Also see what else I did there? "Usually alot better". The stopping power on a shotgun is better than a handgun, and FOR THE MOST PART is better for home self defense. Depending on the person whose house it is, it may not actually be the best option. Yet, wait for it...my logic is weak


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## recoilguy (Apr 30, 2009)

Welcome from MN....It appears by the choices you mentioned you are on a budget. My advice to everyone is get the best weapon you can afford. Being a copy of a Glock is not a bad thing. Liking a hammer is not a bad thing either, why do you like the hammer better? 

If I were someone considering what you are considering knowing what I know now, I would save for another 4 to 6 months and change my selection of guns to something along the lines of

Glock 19
S&W M&P 4.25
CZ 75B
Berreta 92FS

They are a couple bucks more but well worth the extra $$$ You have already seen the trouble with the 345 which was the best gun in my opinion on your initial list. The Sigma is a gun some folks have and love I could not ever own one for reasons I will not go into but that are many. The Taurus well ....its a Taurus. The Taurus is my second choice on your initial list. On a list like yours Kel Tec PF9 is normally a serious consideration.

This is your decision, don't go cheap just because you want a gun now. A gun that jams or stops working is not money well spent and a bad idea. Good luck with what ever you decide on and please always be safe


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

I like recoilguy's suggestions though I would rank them as the following

M&P
Ruger SR9
Glock (as I have more experience with them though it would be pretty close to tied for a CZ)
Sig (can't remember the model number right off the bat. Wasn't much more saw alot of great reviews)
CZ
Beretta


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Brevard13 said:


> denner said:
> 
> 
> > I have now hung my head in shame. I said when you go back and read your post it sounds lie you are putting the px4 above the glock, m&p, xd, etc. Did I misread, possibly. Could you have typed that out differently yes. For the record ease define what you consider entry level. I do not put the Ruger on the same level as the Sigma and the Taurus. I don't even put the Taurus on any level of good named manufactureres like Sig, Beretta, S&W, Glock, Ruger, etc. if interchangeable backstraps is your definition ofsuperior then I am shocked. Backstraps are good if they feel good. The px4 didn't just like the glock gen 4 backstrap doesnt change the feel as much.
> ...


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

denner said:


> Brevard13 said:
> 
> 
> > I think when you state myself, my friends and my cousin are not impressed with the PX4, you would make one believe that no one would be impressed with a PX4? I may be reading that wrong, but, when I get the perception that you come across as it's just not me, but my friends, and even my own cousin, so something has to be wrong with the PX4, right? I do believe you think of your opinion highly, so, I would interpret it as, if you don't believe me, I have friends and even my cousin to back up my opinion. Other than the subjective fit and feel of a pistol. Fact one, and one alone may be able to suffice is that the P series has a much more cumbersome takedown than a PX4, agree or disagree? Have you ever taken down a PX4? Can you change out the entire trigger mechanism in the P series in less than 15 minutes? Is there an option to modify the grip size with the P series? And comparing the Gen 4 glock grips in that department is wrong. That is all fact and is the reason the PX4 is superior over the P series. Now subjective opinions, the way the pistol feels and shoots for you, or maybe a first starter pistol which has grown into a admiration is fine, but, frankly, I have a much different take on the PX4 than you, your friends, and yes, even your cousin.
> ...


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

5.56 rounds penetrate less layers of dry wall than 12 ga buckshot and 9mm rounds. Saying an incompetant person is better off with a handgun is rediculous. Your logic is weak and your facts are not accurate.


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

The first gun my wife shot was a Beretta 92...and for the first time, she did extremely well.........as long as they can get some shooting time in, I really wouldn't worry about over penetration, under penetration, over thinking, under thinking.....just practice and shoot........you can read good and bad stories about all guns.....and for the most part, they all have had their problems at one time or another......fit, feel, function..period...


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## Brevard13 (Nov 28, 2010)

SMann said:


> 5.56 rounds penetrate less layers of dry wall than 12 ga buckshot and 9mm rounds. Saying an incompetant person is better off with a handgun is rediculous. Your logic is weak and your facts are not accurate.


First off, it is r*I*diculous. It amazes me how many people can't spell that right, and it aggrivates the ever living crap out of me!

A 5.56...yes. Not everyone has a 5.56. I know a couple of people in person and a ton on the internet who don't like the ar-15 platform and will not shot anything other than a 7.62 ak-47. Being that the 7.62 can penetrate a cinder block I am pretty sure dry wall will be pretty easy. Then you figure in ammo for each gun and you can have varied results. FMJ vs Hollowpoint. For the people who do have armor piercing ammo, and the others who wanted the Dragon's Breath ammo, etc. There are a ton of factors. So to say that a 5.56 is always better is weak and inaccurate.

Then you have the debate of whether to use buckshot and birdshot in a shotgun. Buckshot will penetrate deeper than birdshot. Of course there is alot of debate over a birdshot's stopping power much like a 9mm.

Now let's take in the fact that maybe a guy does have a 5.56. Now take a woman who is home by herself, someone breaks in. A fullsized ar-15 is going to be a bit unwielded for a woman who doesn't have much experience with a gun much less an ar-15 especially in a high stressed situation. My wife has never shot a rifle and has only shot a shotgun once in her life and refuses to shoot another. Yet is extremely accurate with her pistol I bought her. Not only that, I'm satisfied that half the guys who own a ar-15 wouldn't be able to clear a house effectively in a high stress situation with a ar-15. Your average person doesn't take the time to practice shooting much less take the time to train how to effectively clear said house.

If that isn't enough you will also have to factor in angle shots. Behind a bed with the rifle, shotgun, or pistol aimed upward will have a different type penetration than say if you are aiming down, or straight at the bad guy.

So if you want my opinion. I feel that anyone who has little to no gun experience will find a assualt type rifle very cumbersome and unmanageable in a high stress situation. Stuck in one room and not moving, prop a shotgun on a bed. But, for overall use a person with little to no gun experience can quickly adapt to using a pistol at close range. I know I did when I first got into shooting. And to this day I can still shoot a pistol better than a rifle or shotgun.


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## SMann (Dec 11, 2008)

It's aggrAvate, and I never said anything about a 5.56 always being better. I was simply pointing out that you don't know everything.


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

:watching:


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