# Cheap but decent range ammo?



## chip2 (Apr 8, 2015)

I have the 4" XD 9. I started out with the Perfecta stuff they sell at Wally World because it's cheap, but it doesn't seem to group well out of my gun. The Blazer Brass from the local gun range seems to be better, but is about the same price as the Winchester in the white box, or the Federal that they also sell at Wally World. I haven't tried either of those yet. Any recommendations?


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

My 380 loved the Winchester White-Box. Since that was pretty much all that was available, that was good.


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## ybnorml (Nov 26, 2014)

Seems you may need to try other ammo until you find what your gun likes...


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

I don't buy loaded cartridges anymore - I reload - but when I did, PMC Bronze performed well, as did Armscor.


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## Niland (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm finding it hard to imagine that grouping issues are related to ammo. If the ammo feeds and fires, at "local gun range" distances to target (<25 yards) and from a 4" barrel, I'd be hard pressed to confidently point to the ammo. That said, some ammo brands run hotter loads, and heavier projectiles will also provide additional felt recoil/muzzle flip. This can definitely cause differences in groupings between brands (depending on shooter experience). Just 2¢.


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## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

Blazer Brass


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Niland said:


> I'm finding it hard to imagine that grouping issues are related to ammo. If the ammo feeds and fires, at "local gun range" distances to target (<25 yards) and from a 4" barrel, I'd be hard pressed to confidently point to the ammo. That said, some ammo brands run hotter loads, and heavier projectiles will also provide additional felt recoil/muzzle flip. This can definitely cause differences in groupings between brands (depending on shooter experience). Just 2¢.


Ammo can definitely cause good or bad groups if it is inconsistent. Usually a vertical stringing if the velocities aren't constant.

Talk to the bench-rest guys. They'll have you believe that ammo causes horizontal displacement, too.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

Ammo makes a huge difference in groups. Many years ago I was given an ammo can of military .223. I couldn't put 5 shots into a coffee cup at 100 yds. I took the remaining rounds and pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, and punched out the primers. All I wanted was the brass. After working up several hand loads, I found a recipe that would group 5 shots into a dime. I was using a Remington 700BDL with heavy varmit barrel. Concrete table and sand bags. Everything was as constant as I could make it. The only variable was the ammo.


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## Niland (Jul 29, 2014)

SailDesign said:


> Ammo can definitely cause good or bad groups if it is inconsistent. Usually a vertical stringing if the velocities aren't constant.
> 
> Talk to the bench-rest guys. They'll have you believe that ammo causes horizontal displacement, too.


I get you completely for rifle, especially bench rest or long range. I'm talking about a 4" barrel iron sight pistol held at arms length and at a target a "typical" indoor range distance. Say 10-15 yards.

I've been hand loading awhile myself and understand the role consistent ammo plays in ballistics. Given the parameters above, there are no ballistics in play.

I know this will really stir the pot, but, it's just silly to even consider ammo, or even the gun in such a scenarios. When you talk about accuracy in short range handgun situations, you are really talking about the shooter, and factors that influence his ability to place the sights and release the shot consistency (sight radius, ergonomics, experience). There may be factors related to the gun that affect the shooters ability to provide a repeat performance (two finger mini pistols come to mind), but again that's about the shooter.

Don't believe me? Watch a gunsmith sight in a pistol using a vice. You can put one bullet from each of the manufacturers mentioned in the gun and the group will be ridiculously tight.


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## TurboHonda (Aug 4, 2012)

I hear what you're saying, but why include the variables that you don't have too? If I can eliminate a 4 MOA excess at any distance, I will.


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## SailDesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Niland said:


> I get you completely for rifle, especially bench rest or long range. I'm talking about a 4" barrel iron sight pistol held at arms length and at a target a "typical" indoor range distance. Say 10-15 yards.
> 
> I've been hand loading awhile myself and understand the role consistent ammo plays in ballistics. Given the parameters above, there are no ballistics in play.
> 
> ...


 For sure - but felt recoil plays a part in pistol accuracy, so a difference in recoil WILL affect the group. Iron out the little inconsistencies in everything and your groups WILL get tighter. I'd be willing to bet the pro shooters, both bullseye *and* more "action-based" sports, have their favorite ammo, and use it exclusively. Just for that reason.


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## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

For decent, inexpensive, range ammo. Look at these guys.

Ammunition Online at Factory Direct Prices | Freedom Munitions | Handgun Ammo & Rifle Ammo

Before I started hand loading, I shot tons of their stuff. Can choose different bullet weights to see what works best for you.


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## CW (Mar 20, 2015)

Winchester - white box, Herters, PMC have all performed well on the low cost side. (.380, .40sw)

Herters and PPU have been the rifle ammo choices - 8mm, .243, .303, 7.62x54r

with American Eagle for .223.

I was at Cabelas Sunday and they had 500 round bricks of Remington .22 Thunderbolt and Golden Bullets. about $42. 
I was very considerate of my fellow shooters and bought 1 brick of Golden. There were other selections as well.
I hope the panic buying is over.


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## Tangof (Jan 26, 2014)

I sure noticed a difference in practice ammunition. Federal Aluminum grouped so bad in my new CZ 75b that I thought me or the pistol was defective. Switched to Winchester White box and then fired the LEO qualification test and scored 44 out of 44. 124 Grain Remington Golden Saber gives me one ragged hole at 15 yards, and a respectable group in the kill zone at 25. PMC is also top notch in the 75b and my P-01.


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