# 1911 carry



## ViolentJ (Feb 10, 2009)

:smt1099Ok, not sure if this question has been posed before as I am fairly new to the site (great site BTW) and I am a technotard and don't really know how to dig through so forgive the redundance if there is any.

Ok, my opinion is that the 1911 is the best combat pistol ever designed, it's my concealed carry firearm. BUT, my issue is that in all of my proffessional carry (military, federal instalation armed security) my weapons have been double singles. I'd carry one in the pipe, hammer down, and safety off. Training the other day trying to recreate stressful environment close quarters engagements I presented my 1911 and depressed the trigger once, twice stuck on stupid, then the lightbulb came on and I disengaged the safety and fired several controlled pairs into the target. The whole incident took only a fraction of a second, 1/2 a second at most but that's 1/2 a second too long as all of you who've been in combat know. 

In Iraq (Active Duty, Squad Leader, Combat Infantryman in a maneuver unit) I carried my M-9 in the afore mentioned fashion. My M-4 was one in the pipe safty on thumb on the safety which I had rehearsed so many times it was more than second nature to have the safety off by the time the trigger broke. So I know all the "text book answers" about muscle memory and practice till it's second nature etc. 

What I would like to know is if any of you gentlemen (or ladies if applicable) carry your 1911 one in the pipe, hammer back, safety off? I know it's a "no-no" but would like to be 100% effective till I can practice enough for the muscle memory. I did see some "No see-ums" (Spec. Ops. guys) carrying this way over there. I do have double singles but want to carry my 1911. The trigger is stockpretty crisp but not touchy, I have a Kydex Fobus holster which protects the trigger guard. I usually carry open or concealed outside the pants on the strong side hip. So it shouldn't be getting banged around unless I am. And there is still the grip safety (which I know dan be accidently depressed) so it ought to be about as safe as carrying a Glock right?

Safety Nazi's don"t kick my teeth in please. Maybe my year and a half of living 24/7/365 with live weapons has made me a bit too cavalier, if so please set me straight.
Thanks a million and God Bless America, ViolentJ :smt1099


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

I don't have any where near the expertise with the 1911 platform as some of the guys around here, but I wouldn't carry a 1911 like that. That isn't how it was designed to be carried.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm with Bruce, no way I'd carry a 1911 cocked & not locked. Would that be considered condition zero? :smt017


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## Stoo (Mar 16, 2008)

For me cocked and locked is the only way to carry a 1911. I ride the safety with my thumb so by time i'm in shooting position the safety is off. It should take you very little repetative training to incorporate disengaging the safety on the draw. After a while it just becomes natural to thumb down the safety when drawing the weapon. That's one reason I love the 1911.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

ViolentJ said:


> I know it's a "no-no"


If you know it's a "no-no", then that's what it is. There's no "half way" in gun safety. I'd say you already know the answer.



> but would liike to be 100% effective till I can practice enough for the muscle memory.


Carry how you practice and practice how you carry. It's the only way to get enough time to establish good, repeatable habits.



> I did see some "No see-ums" (Spec. Ops. guys) carrying this way over there.


The vast majority of us are not Special Ops. nor are most of us anywhere near there level of proficiency. I wouldn't recommend driving like a NASCAR driver either even though I've seen how they drive.


> I do have double singles but want to carry my 1911. The trigger is stockpretty crisp but not touchy, I have a Kydex Fobus holster which protects the trigger guard.


First things first... go out and get a quality holster. I used to be a big fan of FOBUS, mainly because they were cheap. Now, after having bought a couple quality holster, I dislike FOBUS for the same reason... they're cheap.



> I usually carry open or concealed outside the pants on the strong side hip. So it shouldn't be getting banged around unless I am. And there is still the grip safety (which I know dan be accidently depressed) so it ought to be about as safe as carrying a Glock right?


Open carry, in my opinion, is like going to the bar to pick up chicks butt naked on a really cold day. You're stuffs showing and that puts you at a disadvantage from the get go.


> Safety Nazi's don"t kick my teeth in please. Maybe my year and a half of living 24/7/365 with live weapons has made me a bit too cavalier, if so please set me straight.
> Thanks a million and God Bless America, ViolentJ :smt1099


Thank you for your service.

Zhur


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

zhurdan said:


> I wouldn't recommend driving like a NASCAR driver either even though I've seen how they drive.


Yeah, only making left turns would be a serious hassle. :smt033


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## clanger (Jan 27, 2009)

> What I would like to know is if any of you gentlemen (or ladies if applicable) *carry your 1911 one in the pipe, hammer back, [thumb] safety off?*


This is called Condition Zero. This is _not_ a carry condition.

The 1911 was meant to be carried in Condition One. Cocked and locked. 
That's why they put the safety in the way of your thumb.

The gun also has other safties as well- it should have, it's a light pull SA.

The only time the thumb safety comes off, on a 1911, is post draw and presentation.
As soon as the threat is eliminated, the safety goes back on, once going back to the ready, or, holstered position.

Carrying in public in Conditon Zero is, well, .....


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## DevilsJohnson (Oct 21, 2007)

Carrying an 1911 with the hammer back and safety off is a recipe for disaster. It's real easy to train yourself to bring the weapon up and while doing that you are putting your thumb on the safety and at the point the weapon is up the thumb clicks the safety off. I know some guys that carry it hammer down or the hammer back just to the first click but I'm not a fan of that method. AS said earlier the weapon was made to carry cocked and locked. Carrying a SAO weapon is a little different than the rest but it's easily trained to use effectively.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Everybody has already hammered the "don't go there" part. Once you have gotten to know your 1911 it is second nature for the thumb to hit and ride the safety. Just handle it enough with the correct hold. There really isn't a better combat weapon in my opinion once you learn its ways. It is safe, consistant, and fast....Oh!.......and it makes nice BIG holes. :smt023


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## ViolentJ (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks for the input everyone, as Zhurdan said I did already know the answer, guess I was just looking for a way to cheat for a bit. It's been said that grunts pick up a lot of bad habbits. I am hitting the range to develop the muscle memory. Shouldn't be long. Thanks again all!


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## ViolentJ (Feb 10, 2009)

BTW. I chose Fobus in part because it's Israeli made and I have a lot of respect for Israel and their abilities with firearms, and I do like Kydex but if it is a lousy choice for a holster what would be yours?
Second, while I do agree that open carry does put me at a dis-advantage I do it upon occasion so more people will see a law biding citizen carrying. I think people need to be reminded of our side more. They get the anti-gun side all the time from the media, hollwood, and the barrack hussein ossama administration. I know there are other ways to go about it but I believe a visual reminder to be important as well. Appreciate any input on the holsters, and magazine carry options.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Open carry may be perfectly legal, but when you're walking around town, the cops are going to be _very_ interested in you.
The resulting "question and answer period" may become somewhat physically uncomfortable, not to mention the amount of your time it'll waste.
Further, in-town open carry is a "snatch me" invitation to some young idiot.
I suggest against it.


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## ViolentJ (Feb 10, 2009)

I can see your point Steve, with the young dumb [email protected]# trying to prove something or thinking he can get a free weapon out of it and I will take that into advisement. So far as the cop thing goes. I do get noticed by officers but have yet to have any issue from them or anything but an impromptu conversation about my weapon, shooting in general or cussing the govt. It usually with them telling me that they are glad to see armed citizens. Guess it's good to be a "hick from the sticks" huh? The only thing I am really worried about (other than it does put a bulls eye on your chest in the event of an armed incident) is having my head up my third point of contact and walking into an area off limits to firearms, be it posted by the owner, a building with contiguous passages to an establishment that sells alchohol by the drink (NM law unfortunately), or govt. building etc. I have largely cut back on my open carry since taking the CCW course.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

My personal favorites for holsters are the Don Hume 721 OT for OWB and for IWB it is the Crossbreed SuperTuck. I'll post some links tonight when I get home.


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## zhurdan (Mar 21, 2008)

There are several good hoster companies. Off the top of my head...
Galco, Mitch Rosen, and Kirkpatrick to get you started. Just google their name and take a look. There are also many threads on this site that go over the who, what, where, when and why's of holsters. Take a look at a few, and determine how you want to carry, then get back to us. It really is a personal choice, body style, climate, size of gun... all that stuff comes into play.


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Said I would so..........

Don Hume:
http://www.donhume.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_5&products_id=44

SuperTuck:
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/beltslide.html


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## ViolentJ (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks gmaske, the holsters look good and not too rich for my blood. I may give one of those cross breeds a whirl.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

*ViolentJ;*
Not to be too impertinent, but...(Now you _know_ that I'm gonna be impertinent, right?)
How much did your pistol cost?
What percentage of your pistol's price should your holster cost? How 'bout your holster belt?

Lessee...A 1911 of the least expensive kind would run close to $400.00, and a really good no-frills model costs about $800.00.
A decent holster will cost about $125.00, and a belt about $60.00. That totals out to somewhat less than half the price of the cheapest new 1911, and less than a third of a more expensive one.

Seems to me, if you're gonna stake your life on the outfit, you ought to buy something better than a $35.00 Fobus and a Walmart belt.
But that's just me...


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

I'll tell you this, Kydex is hard on finishes. I like the SuperTuck because it is super thin and comfortable but it is harder on the finish of my painted Para than leather is. If you wear your shirt out the Don Hume conceals just about as well. I ordered a Fobus when I was applying for my CCL. The company I ordered it from never came through so I canceled the order. After studing up a bit I'm glad it never came. They work but I kind of look at them as starter holsters. There are much better offerings out there.


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## ViolentJ (Feb 10, 2009)

Not to worry Steve, impertenance is not always a bad quality. At times I wish that more people possesed it. I am glad for the feed back from all of you gentlemen. 
My 1911 is a 5" with an accessory rail (I know I'm gona catch hell on that one and I know it's not needed for a carry weapon but I do prefer a weapon mounted light and carry either) and is bead blasted stainless steel. So not too worried about the finish issue, besides the fact that I don't mind wear on my carry weapons.
I do see what you are saying about the price and not skimping on equipment as important as the holster and belt. And while I, like I am sure everyone else, do prefer to spend a bit less if I can safely get away with it; I do know that a firearm that you can't present in a timely or precise manner (if at all) just makes you weigh more when you are dead. I do have multiple other holsters, some for my 1911 and some for my other side arms. I've had everything from nylon cheapies to safari land thigh rigs to shoulder holsters to GI issue leather and Bianchi. I honestly though have never had any issue with the Fobus holsters I've had in the past. Maybe I've just been lucky or maybe I am missing something. I am not dead set on Fobus and will probably pick up a cross breed as has been suggested here (I've been watching them with some interest for a while listening to reviews every chance I get) and maybe something from Don Hume. We will see, gotta find the perfect personal fit through trial, error, and advise ya know? Thanks.


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