# Glock 43/XDs45/Kahr K-40/S&W Shield Comparison



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I was about as excited as anyone about the G43 announcement, thinking it might be the perfect sized 9mm for my hand. It may be, yet, but since it won't be available for awhile, I decided to do some comparisons with subcompacts I already own. I have owned quite a few subcompacts, in search of the 'perfect' one for me. I have largish hands with long fingers, so it's hard to find one that feels right. I used the XDs .45 as a kind of baseline, because it fits me better than anything else I've tried. I recently bought a S&W Shield that initially disappointed me, due to a really crappy trigger, but I polished all the pieces and smoothed it up some, and am still trying to like it. The Kahr K-40 was one of my early attempts to find the right one, and I kept it just because it's a great pistol, even though it doesn't fit me very well.

What I found is that the all steel Kahr K-40 is the largest (and heaviest) pistol of the four, but has, by far, the shortest trigger reach, with the longest pull to the break-point. It's a very smooth pull, and would be OK for a smaller hand, but the break point is just too far back for me to maintain the leverage that feels right to me, with anything near my preferred grip.

I was not surprised to see that the XDs .45 had the longest trigger reach (with the largest grip panel installed), because it has always been obvious, and my accuracy with it reflects that. But what did surprise me is that the S&W Shield is almost identical in size, for all practical purposes. The slide on the 9mm Shield is a tiny bit narrower, and the trigger pull is a tiny bit shorter, but not noticeably so. In fact, it appears to be closer than the Glock 43.

Since I don't have a Glock 43 for direct comparison, I had to find a large picture on the Glock web site, with some measurements, then adjust my window size until the slide length measures the same as the stated length. At first glance, when holding the other pistols up to the screen, the differences looked very small, between the XDs and the Shield, so I did measurements with an engineer's scale. This revealed that the Glock 43 has a slightly shorter trigger pull than the Shield, but was so close in all other respects to be considered negligible. Of course, that doesn't mean that this difference will matter, because the break-points may be different, but it's a fair preliminary indication that the Glock may not be an improvement over the Shield (for me).

So, my conclusion is that I need to continue working on my accuracy with the Shield, while waiting for the Glock to come out at a reasonable price. Hopefully, I'll learn to like it enough so that I don't want the Glock, because the differences really are negligible.

Just thought I'd share these meandering comments, in case anyone has similar concerns about finding the best fit for larger hands.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I think you're right that the G43 is very close in size to the Shield. I have the Shield now and love it. I'm very accurate with it, but I can see how it could be a challenge for larger hands. When Hicock45 reviewed it he shot pretty well with it, but he shoots all the time and is pretty dang accurate with almost anything. I wish I were as accurate! 

I posted a video by Ron Avery on trigger control that you may find helpful when working on your Shield accuracy. It is entitled "Trigger Control", and the video is excellent. It has helped me immensely regardless of what I'm shooting, so maybe it will help you too!


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I understand the mechanics, but the physics make it hard if the trigger reach is too short. I have learned to alter my combat grip for small pistols, but it forces me to 'loop' my trigger finger out to keep from jamming it in to the first joint, which doesn't work at all for me. I need to be able to center the pad, to get a straight pull, and with a short trigger pull, it reduces my leverage. That's the reason the crappy trigger was making me pull low left.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Bisley said:


> I understand the mechanics, but the physics make it hard if the trigger reach is too short. I have learned to alter my combat grip for small pistols, but it forces me to 'loop' my trigger finger out to keep from jamming it in to the first joint, which doesn't work at all for me. I need to be able to center the pad, to get a straight pull, and with a short trigger pull, it reduces my leverage. That's the reason the crappy trigger was making me pull low left.


Don't get wrong, I also understand the mechanics, but Avery offers some ingenius insight that can help improve the actual mechanics for you. FWIW


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Where is the link?


----------



## PT111Pro (Nov 15, 2014)

I have problems with the Shield too. Looking already for a replacement.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Bisley said:


> Where is the link?


http://www.handgunforum.net/tactics-technique/43902-trigger-control.html


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

Yep, it's a good video.

The 'finishing flat' part is impossible for me to do on a subcompact, unless I can get nearly to the end of my trigger finger. With the Kahr K-40, it is physically impossible, without using the very tip of my finger (which I don't like) because the trigger just finishes too far back. With the XDs and the Shield, I can do it without significant adjustment from my normal grip (with full sized pistols)...if the trigger pull required is not too heavy. The XDs is OK, but the Shield trigger was just way too heavy and I wasn't getting enough leverage to be able to compensate. I think I can get used to it, now, since smoothing the trigger - I just need more practice to make sure.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Yeah, but you may need to bump up to a little larger platform. Another thing to consider is replacing the trigger spring or perhaps the sear. That would help lighten the pull for sure.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Bisley said:


> What I found is that the all steel Kahr K-40 is the largest (and heaviest) pistol of the four, but has, by far, the shortest trigger reach, with the longest pull to the break-point. It's a very smooth pull, and would be OK for a smaller hand, but the break point is just too far back for me to maintain the leverage that feels right to me, with anything near my preferred grip.


If your Kahr is around 15 or fewer years old or is one of their "Elite" series, its trigger travel length is only 3/8 of an inch, which is less than that of the Glock. Of course what you're describing is the point at which it breaks, which is close to the rear of the trigger guard.


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

GCBHM said:


> Yeah, but you may need to bump up to a little larger platform. Another thing to consider is replacing the trigger spring or perhaps the sear. That would help lighten the pull for sure.


The object of this exercise is to find the smallest platform that will work for me. I have double-stack 9mms that fit my hand just fine, because the extra thickness of the grip 'uses up' some of the excess length of my hand and fingers. I know other people have similar problems, so I'm just reporting my findings. I have just kind of made it my hobby to solve this particular problem. The XDs solves it, and I like the XDs platform, but I initially thought that the lower priced Shield would work, too...and it would, if the factory trigger was better. Apparently, it is good enough for people with normal sized hands, but it needs a modification to work for me.


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

SouthernBoy said:


> If you Kahr is around 15 or fewer years old or is one of their "Elite" series, its trigger travel length is only 3/8 of an inch, which is less than that of the Glock. *Of course what you're describing is the point at which it breaks, which is close to the rear of the trigger guard*.


Exactly. When I finish the trigger pull, my trigger finger is looped into a complete "U" shape, and the second joint of my finger is almost touching the front of the trigger guard. It is manageable in the K or P series Kahrs, but when I had the PM-9, recoil was causing the trigger guard to contact my finger, which becomes painful after a few magazines.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Bisley said:


> Exactly. When I finish the trigger pull, my trigger finger is looped into a complete "U" shape, and the second joint of my finger is almost touching the front of the trigger guard. It is manageable in the K or P series Kahrs, but when I had the PM-9, recoil was causing the trigger guard to contact my finger, which becomes painful after a few magazines.


Have you ever tried Kahr's 'T' series? That's their full sized handgun platform. I have a T9 and it's nearly too beautiful to carry. Shoots great and feels great. Might be the best bet for your hands in a Kahr. I also have a K40 Elite '98 and a K9 Elite '03. I put the smooth wood grips on the K40.


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

No, I've never even seen one. 

I, too, have a K-9, and I have had a P-45 and a PM-9. I like them, but I've given up on them, for myself. I keep them to give to family members eventually, if they ever get serious about learning how to shoot. They fit most women's hands really well, and I have two daughters who will likely want them, eventually.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Here's a good picture of the T9.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...rumb=LrfN/o8vmia&hsimp=yhs-003&hspart=mozilla

Kahr's can be a little finicky, which is most likely due to their very tight and exacting tolerances.


----------



## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

It's a very good looking pistol, just as the K series are. The trigger looks the same though. It would have to feel significantly different before I would consider one, now that I have figured out what I need, to shoot well.


----------



## Greybeard (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm kinda on a search too for the smallest 9 that feels comfortable. Luckily I have rather smallish hands. So far, the Ruger lc9-s is at the top of my list.


----------

