# About to buy a new gun?!? Decisions, Decision.. Need an extra safety?



## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm about ready to purchase a new gun, first time buyer. I'm really impressed with the glock but I don't like that it doesnt have a thumb safety or decocker. Is this necessary for a first time gun owner? 

I did take the 4 hour course and now hand gun safety, do you think I should get a gun with another safety and decocker if I'm not going to be using it as a concealed weapon? Its mainly for range use and to have it at home for safety (a big disaster happens, etc).

I don't have any kids, I'm 33 y/o and married.

I'm currently shopping the g19, and g17. Beretta and S&W have caught my attention a bit as well.

Thanks in advance.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

An additional safety couldn't hurt.

How does your wife feel about the whole gun thing?


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## shamrock62 (Dec 3, 2012)

I have the M&P .40 The ergonomics are great, fits well (especially w/ choice of three grips) shoots excellent and is super reliable. I am a huge S&W fan to begin with, especially with all the new work they have done! Can't go wrong.


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## sleepy (Dec 5, 2012)

Just my personal opinion, I prefer a thumb/decocker safety. The reason for me is I have more experience with revolvers than semi autos and I feel more comfortable with additional safety. That being said, I own 3 without additional safety/decockers and I love to shoot them at the range and are quality guns. I have a few with decocker/safetys and I will carry one for ccw at times. I believe that being inexperienced and new to firearms, you need all the safety precautions you can get. Once a gun goes bang, you can`t put the bullet back in the barrel and saying I`m sorry doesn`t quite cut it with guns. My EDC is a SP101 .357 wheel gun and I feel very safe with it.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

the glock is like a revolver - neither have locks - just pull the trigger
HOWEVER
the Glock has 3 internal safeties that prohibit the gun going off unless the trigger is intentionally pulled


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

hideit said:


> the glock is like a revolver - neither have locks - just pull the trigger
> HOWEVER
> the Glock has 3 internal safeties that prohibit the gun going off unless the trigger is intentionally pulled


A Glock is nothing like a revolver unless the revolver is DA only and has a short 5.5 pound trigger. Most revolvers have between an 8 to 12 pound trigger in DA, coupled with a longer trigger pull and a much longer reset. Many revolvers likewise are DA/SA. Any trigger w/a somewhat short 5.5 pound pull is much less forgiving than a much longer 8 to 12 pound trigger in my opinion. I have no problem dropping my S&W 637 in a pocket w/o a holster, but a Glock 26 I'd never dream of it.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

My wife is okay with it now with everything going on in the world these days (including huge disaster, election, world in turmoil, etc). She's not ecstatic about it, but she says its my choice. She's from Europe and guns are highly revered over in those neck of the woods.

A question regarding non-glock guns, to put one in the chamber what do you have to do? rack it, take off the thumb safety, then pull back the trigger? after you shoot one, the trigger goes back and ready to fire. for some reason you want to decock the gun, use the decocker? i know this might sound simple but most of my experience has to deal with glocks.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

TheLAGuy said:


> My wife is okay with it now with everything going on in the world these days (including huge disaster, election, world in turmoil, etc). She's not ecstatic about it, but she says its my choice. She's from Europe and guns are highly revered over in those neck of the woods.
> 
> A question regarding non-glock guns, to put one in the chamber what do you have to do? rack it, take off the thumb safety, then pull back the trigger? after you shoot one, the trigger goes back and ready to fire. for some reason you want to decock the gun, use the decocker? i know this might sound simple but most of my experience has to deal with glocks.


Beretta, Sig, H&K to name a few, which employ the DA/SA trigger have decokers/safetys, or just decockers, but of course there is a number of different models with varients and even Walther I believe has a striker fired pistol that you can decock. Unless you opt for a Beretta tomcat, jetfire, or cheeta(flip up barrel) you must rack the slide on a semi-auto to chamber a round. The exposed hammer, (unlike a striker fired pistol) will be ready to fire in SA, or with beretta for example, if you leave the decoker/safety engaged(down) the hammer will automatically decock and you would just need to flip up the safety to fire the first DA shot. Or you can rack the slide to chamber a round w/ the decocker/safety off and then you would need to activate the decoker/safety on to decock the pistol. i don't know if you understood this but it was the best I could do.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

So with a Beretta, lets say you put in the mag, what do you have to do to fire a shot?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

TheLAGuy said:


> So with a Beretta, lets say you put in the mag, what do you have to do to fire a shot?


Which Beretta? I believe if you read my post above a little closer you should be able to find the answer. But for the sake of clarity, a 92fs, you fully seat a loaded magazine into the pistol, rack the slide, if you have the safety/decocker down the pistol will load and decock automatically and remain on safety. From that point the pistol is fully loaded, and what you would have to do is flip up the safety/decocker to the firing position and there you have it. To decock the pistol flip the safety/decocker down and it will decock the pistol and the pistol would be on safety until you flip it back up. First shot DA, the rest SA, or you could manually cock the hammer back and start out SA.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks for clarifying! For for the first DA, how many LBS of pressure do you need the 15lbs? like a revolver?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

TheLAGuy said:


> Thanks for clarifying! For for the first DA, how many LBS of pressure do you need the 15lbs? like a revolver?


I'd say between 8 to 12 pounds and a pretty long pull at that, so yes, like a revolver. You could go with a "D" spring at lighten the trigger pull quite a bit, but I'm just fine w/ the stock and shoot DA very well. A glock trigger in my opinion is easier to master than the DA pull on DA/Sa's because of the consistent short light pull. The SA mode in the 92fs is really sweet.Im a Beretta guy, but if I were to buy a striker fired pistol it would be the venerable G-19.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

Lets say you have one in the chamber on a beretta, to unload, do you drop the mag and rack it? like a glock?


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

TheLAGuy said:


> Lets say you have one in the chamber on a beretta, to unload, do you drop the mag and rack it? like a glock?


If you are serious w/ a question like that please take more classes in addition to the 4 hour safety course you attended. Sounds like you need some hands on training by a professional. Yes you would, unless you owned a flip up barrel Beretta Cheeta 380, Bobcat or Jetfire .22, or .32 Tomcat, or a Taurus pocket pistol . To unload you flip a lever and the barrel pops up ejecting the round, likewise to load you can either rack the slide or place one in the barrel and snap it shut.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

I learned on a glock what can i say!


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

You simply cannot go wrong buying a Beretta 92FS. :smt023

It has a safety and a de-cocker.


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## goNYG (Apr 4, 2012)

*Repeat Thread?*

Didn't you post this exact same thread yesterday and receive ample opinions??


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## berettabone (Jan 23, 2012)

And they keep suggesting Glock.....wow


TheLAGuy said:


> My wife is okay with it now with everything going on in the world these days (including huge disaster, election, world in turmoil, etc). She's not ecstatic about it, but she says its my choice. She's from Europe and guns are highly revered over in those neck of the woods.
> 
> A question regarding non-glock guns, to put one in the chamber what do you have to do? rack it, take off the thumb safety, then pull back the trigger? after you shoot one, the trigger goes back and ready to fire. for some reason you want to decock the gun, use the decocker? i know this might sound simple but most of my experience has to deal with glocks.


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## kerrycork (Jan 9, 2012)

The best safety available is a well informed operator.


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## jakeleinen1 (Jul 20, 2011)

kerrycork said:


> The best safety available is a well informed operator.


^This guy


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

kerrycork said:


> The best safety available is a well informed operator.


and

"Even with good training, people forget." "And guns are not forgiving."


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I just posted this in your other thread:

"It depends on your comfort zone,and the Glock/safety issue is a catch 22.

Safety has to be ingrained in that finger to run a Glock,remember that quite a few Glock NDs are when cleaning-a round is missed in the chamber and the trigger has to be pulled for takedown,oops that hurt.You'd be surprised how many people have brainfade and rack the slide before dropping the mag.

On the other side,you have to have the act of taking off the safety ingrained just like the trigger finger.I've carried and shot a shtload of rounds through 1911s for a long time,I have never missed the safety or had it cost me a hundredth of a second on the clock,contrary to the naysayer's opinions.

What you need to do is figure out which you're going to be cool with.If that finger can be contained go "safe action" striker fired,if you think you need to play it safe go with an easily manipulated safety to help ingrain the basics so the safety rules are subconsciencely covered.

In Glock vs 1911 debates I give this example:

A Glock fires by pulling the trigger through a kind of short pull that can break at under 5lbs up,boom.

A 1911 fires by gripping to deactivate the grip safety so the trigger can move and take the thumb safety off.While the pull is shorter,a nasty GI trigger can have a lot of creep and stack at 7lbs easily,boom.

Is there really much difference between the 2, that a 1911 carried with the safety off and a Glock, are operating so close to the same that it isn't really different?With both in that state of readiness,I can make the Glock go off and the 1911 can't.

Pick what's in you comfort zone,proficiency takes time and practice."


From reading this one,go with a safety for now and familiarize yourself more with the differences between operating principles.All autos you will either rack the slide or drop it from locked open after inserting a mag.At that point things change.On a Glock type gun you don't touch the trigger until you need to hear a bang,decock to be basically like a revolver,or put the safety on to block the hammer from falling until taken off.

I have a Beretta 92 and love it,but I don't prefer the slide mounted safeties because it's an unnatural move for me to take it off.I can and don't have a problem with it but it's odd for me.I prefer frame mounted safeties/decockers,it's a more natural act to operate them.Your choice though.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

rex said:


> I just posted this in your other thread:
> 
> "It depends on your comfort zone,and the Glock/safety issue is a catch 22.
> 
> ...


great comment, and its if you have a revolver and its loaded, you take the safety off and pull that trigger, that gun is going to fire!

i think the da/sa might be safer in a certain way, but another catch .22. by the time you rack that first round, take the safety off, might be too late if a predator is upon you, right?


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Revolvers don't have a safety as you're thinking,they have a block or transfer bar to connect the hammer and firing pin when the trigger is pulled,like a firing pin safety in an auto (semi-auto pistol).When you shut the cylender on a DA revolver just pull the trigger and it will fire,similar to Glocks and the like.Or you can cock the hammer SA.

Also no,on DA/SA autos There's a decock lever,and when you hit it after chambering a round it safely drops the hammer without hitting the firing pin.Some levers will rebound back so all you do is pull the trigger,like Sig and HK.Others like Beretta and that slide style decocker can stay in the decock position acting as a safety.You can leave it there and have a dead trigger that would be beneficial if someone grabbed the gun,but...... On this style safety I decock and flip the lever back where it was,pull the trigger any time you like and it goes off just like a revolver or Glock type pistol.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

rex said:


> Revolvers don't have a safety as you're thinking,they have a block or transfer bar to connect the hammer and firing pin when the trigger is pulled,like a firing pin safety in an auto (semi-auto pistol).When you shut the cylender on a DA revolver just pull the trigger and it will fire,similar to Glocks and the like.Or you can cock the hammer SA.
> 
> Also no,on DA/SA autos There's a decock lever,and when you hit it after chambering a round it safely drops the hammer without hitting the firing pin.Some levers will rebound back so all you do is pull the trigger,like Sig and HK.Others like Beretta and that slide style decocker can stay in the decock position acting as a safety.You can leave it there and have a dead trigger that would be beneficial if someone grabbed the gun,but...... On this style safety I decock and flip the lever back where it was,pull the trigger any time you like and it goes off just like a revolver or Glock type pistol.


What's your favorite at the range?


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

I've owned a few revolvers but over the years of trading I have none now.For pure simplicity you really can't beat a revolver for range practice and the home.I prefer not to carry them due to the width of the cylender but the small 5 shots are do-able.

At present I'm down to a few 1911s,a Beretta 92,an HK USP45 and a Hammerli 22 sold through Sig for a shot period.I've always been a 1911 lover but the HK could possibly replace the 1911 as my favorite pistol.It's quite a large gun but I see it as an improvement on the 1911 design.A lot of people complain that they aren't cheap,and at face value they aren't,but when you actually think about it they aren't really expensive.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

rex said:


> I have a Beretta 92 and love it,but I don't prefer the slide mounted safeties because it's an unnatural move for me to take it off.I can and don't have a problem with it but it's odd for me.I prefer frame mounted safeties/decockers,it's a more natural act to operate them.Your choice though.


what gun would you say has a frame mounted safety?


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## niadhf (Jan 20, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> what gun would you say has a frame mounted safety?


1911s, Makarovs, M&Ps with manual safeties are all examples of such. 
But back to an earlier point "by the time you draw, rack the slide, decock, safety off..."
It makesuch more sense to CARRY with a round already chambered and the safety off (my pref) or on, than to carry chamber empty. MANY debates on such to be found on here. Kind of like loading the cylinder on a revolver before holster in it.


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

The thing is... I'm not carrying this for concealed weapon concerns. I want this at home in case of a huge disaster. I'm not afraid to sneak up on me at any minute. I'm a first time gun owner, maybe eventually I'd feel confident in "stage 1" carry but I think for now a gun with a few safety interlocks isnt a bad thing? right?


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## niadhf (Jan 20, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> The thing is... I'm not carrying this for concealed weapon concerns. I want this at home in case of a huge disaster. I'm not afraid to sneak up on me at any minute. I'm a first time gun owner, maybe eventually I'd feel confident in "stage 1" carry but I think for now a gun with a few safety interlocks isnt a bad thing? right?


No, a few steps is not bad. But i thought it was you who said "by the time...the bad guy could be on me" so that was what i was addressing. 
At this point, my advice (again) is.. Try many, buy one, practice till it feels natural, rinse, repeat.


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## usmcj (Sep 23, 2011)

This is strictly my opinion, and has worked in many years of firearms training, and for men and ladies alike.

Get some basic training FIRST. At this point you need fundamentals, not run and gun, or force on force. Reputable instructors will provide a host of handguns and holsters for you to experience in class. That will give you some idea of where your preferences might lead you in handgun selection. Then.....

Buy a handgun just like you would buy a pair of shoes. If Ol' Joe over here says he likes Charlie China tennis shoes, and you're looking for a new pair of shoes, do you run out and buy Joe's pick, just because HE likes 'em? Probably not. If a new shooter is asking what to buy for a carry, or home defense gun, it doesn't matter what works for me, or anyone else. I suggest telling that new shooter to go to many gun shops, and/or gun shows, and handle all the guns they can get hold of. Just like they would try on shoes. Before long they'll be able to make a list of guns that feel ok, pretty good, real good, and "that really feels great in my hands". The last two are the ones to pursue, and here's why I say that....If a given handgun doesn't feel "right" in your hands, you'll not shoot it enough to become proficient with it, because it's not comfortable, and you won't like shooting it. Just like you rarely wear shoes that are UNcomfortable. If you're not gonna become proficient with it, save your money, and buy a ball bat to carry. With proper fundamentals, he/she can learn to shoot almost any handgun, or any caliber. Very few folks can re-train their hands to make just any handgun feel comfortable. The last suggestion... again....get some more training......proper shooting techniques, practiced slowly, but proficiently, will breed speed. Do it slowly, and do it the right way, every time.......If you practice speed first, and introduce less efficient techniques into your training, you'll have to do it all over again to get it right. Most gun shops have a box of used holsters that you can experiment with after you've chosen what gun works best for you. There are many options for concealed/open carry.

By the way..... anyone who introduces a new shooter to our pastime by having them start with a large-caliber handgun, makes a very poor decision. Yes, some folks do ok starting out with large calibers, but the vast majority will not continue to shoot if their very 1st experience is with .50 S&W. Start with a .22 caliber something, and as your technique/accuracy improves, work up from there. *Caliber doesn't count until after you can hit your target.*

If you're buying a handgun for home protection, and you choose to NOT have it on your person, you should consider where in your home you might be if someone kicks the door in. I don't see a person in a position to be able to ask an intruder to "hang on a sec, while I get my gun"

There always will be a trade-off..... light weight, more recoil...... shorter barrel, more recoil...I've known more than a few gents who didn't care for the recoil of what's often called a "ladies gun"... just sayin....

Again, just my ramblings.... but they work for me...

Shoot Safely....


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's another point to ponder since this is for the home.A shotgun is a more effective tool.You'll want a short 18" barrel for mobility,especially if you have space issues.A pump is the most poular,you can load the mag and pump in the first round when you need to be ready to go,and the sound of pumping in that first round is known to perps as the universal lanuage of get out or this is going to hurt.


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## usmcj (Sep 23, 2011)

Many folks portray the shotgun as a "better" home defense weapon. As posted, a user may not have room to proficiently maneuver a shotgun indoors. A shotgun user should "pattern" the shotgun at whatever ranges would most likely be used. Contrary to some, I don't see a shotgun as a point and shoot weapon at close (15' or less) ranges.... the weapon must still be aimed.

I would strongly advise against depending at all on any sound, to deter an intruder. If racking a shotgun does happen to scare off an intruder, you're very fortunate. If racking the sound doesn't scare off the intruder, you have just signaled your presence, and likely your location. 

Unless you know that there IS IN FACT, an intruder in your home, how many there are, where they are, are they armed, how are they armed, you'd be better off defending yourself, and family, in a previously established safe room, and letting law enforcement clear your house.

To each his/her own... just my two cents


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

I live in a condo. I'm not going to get a shotgun, and you cant take a shotgun to the range. I want a semi-auto, preferably a glock, beretta or s&w. I'm actually leavnign towards the s&w for the cost and its extra safety interlocks. I'm going to make a decision here soon.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Yep,forget that idea.

I do dissagree with some of what USMCJ said,I find the shotgun quite easy to use at close range.We used to have combat shotgun matches and out to 25,30' I could hit 8" steel lolipops from the hip on the run.Shotguns are quite easy to learn instinct or QuickKill skills with.I've also found that the average person and common grab and go thief are quite in tune with the sound of racking a pump,unless you're at the range or in a hunting party,everyone around will look when you rack the bolt open and shut.

Since you are in a condo,remember wall penetration if you need to set one off inside.Don't want to take out the neighbor too.


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## hideit (Oct 3, 2007)

TheLAGuy said:


> I live in a condo. I'm not going to get a shotgun, and you cant take a shotgun to the range. I want a semi-auto, preferably a glock, beretta or s&w. I'm actually leavnign towards the s&w for the cost and its extra safety interlocks. I'm going to make a decision here soon.


but what guage of shotgun?
what buckshot size?


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## TheLAGuy (Nov 28, 2012)

I ended up getting the Beretta PX4 storm 9mm, i liked the extra safety considering its my first firearm, I was on the fence between the glock g17 and the Beretta. I figure its a good start and get some more weaponry within the next year.

Thanks again for all the advice! You guys helped me out.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

TheLAGuy said:


> I ended up getting the Beretta PX4 storm 9mm, i liked the extra safety considering its my first firearm, I was on the fence between the glock g17 and the Beretta. I figure its a good start and get some more weaponry within the next year.
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice! You guys helped me out.


Good deal, I've gone ahead and closed your other threads so we can try and funnel any more comments etc into one thread.


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