# Death of a drug addict and a criminal.



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Philip Seymour Hoffman, to be specific. I was over him the day that the news said he died. 

First off, I'd never heard of him before. Not that it makes any difference, or changes his status as a drug addict and criminal. It's just that the news keeps dragging it out and making it like he was some kind of great person that did wonderful things for society. 

I take it he was was some kind of a movie star. Is that it? I heard that he had been clean for like 20 yrs. or so. Then he relapsed.......obviously. 

Is it mandatory to make like it's something very special to be an addict / criminal, and then get clean, and make a big deal out of it? What about all of those that have worked all their life, stayed out of trouble and away from drugs, and never once check into a rehab facility, and just made an honest living and took care of business. 

This is just another red flag that society has tanked, when it pays homage to drug abusers / addicts / criminals. I do feel bad for his kids, as I did heard that he has some. Too bad for them, they didn't have a better father. It wasn't like he didn't have the money or the time.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Actually, what people were most upset about was that he was an amazing actor, loaded with talent, able to do almost anything.
Everybody who was upset by his unnecessary death saw it as a terrible waste of his acting ability.

Many very fine actors so deeply throw themselves into the roles that they play, that it becomes almost as if they have no personality of their own.
And even if they do reserve their own personality—leave a space for themselves, as it were—many very fine actors either are, or quickly become, very insecure.
"Why are they applauding me? I know that I'm not a real person, but rather just a part that I play. I'm really not worth very much."

That insecurity sometimes devolves into substance abuse. The substance abuse frequently devolves into death.
Thus the three drunken Barrymores, the dead Marylin Monroe, the abusive Joan Crawford, the dead Hoffman, and so on.

Society is not acclaiming Hoffman because he was a druggie. They're acclaiming him because he was a fine craftsman.
They're sorrowing because he was a druggie, and because that will now keep him from practicing his craft any more.


----------



## Gruesome (Apr 30, 2013)

That was moving. Any chance we can get similar feelings from you when that drug addicted criminal Rush Limbaugh shuffles off his mortal coil?


----------



## Howfx (Nov 10, 2013)

Typical small minded commentary addicts criminals let's just keep filling up our jails with them right. I hope you never have to experience addiction yourself or anyone in your family. It's more common than you think.


----------



## Scorpion8 (Jan 29, 2011)

Never heard of the guy myself, and you get addicted because you are weak-willed. That should not be glorified.


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

With the possible exception of, 'Red Dragon' (2002) I never thought that Phillip Seymour Hoffman was such a hot actor. Quite frankly, Hoffman's on-screen characters often annoyed me. In, 'The Talented Mr. Ripley' I actually felt, something of, a sense of relief when Tom Ripley crushed Freddie Miles' skull, and finally shut shut him up! (I'm going to guess that a lot of other people in the audience felt the same way, too.) 

I know Hoffman got a, 'Best Actor' award for portraying the role of eccentric author, Truman Capote in, 'Capote'; (2005) but, like so many of Hoffman's other films, I have to wonder whether or not this part wasn't, also, carefully contrived and specifically written in order to showcase Hoffman's always peculiar, and always conflicted, on and off-screen personas?


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Glock Doctor said:


> With the possible exception of, 'Red Dragon' (2002) I never thought that Phillip Seymour Hoffman was such a hot actor. Quite frankly, Hoffman's on-screen characters often annoyed me. *In, 'The Talented Mr. Ripley' I actually felt, something of, a sense of relief when Tom Ripley crushed Freddie Miles' skull, and finally shut shut him up!* (I'm going to guess that a lot of other people in the audience felt the same way, too.)...[emphasis added]


The mark of a really talented actor is that the audience actually believes the characterization. The actor "becomes" the character.
In the case you describe, Hoffman seems to have convinced you.

It's very hard to do that. I know: Been there, done that, still occasionally do it.
We think of Brando as a great actor, but, to me, he was always playing Brando. He was a rivetting personality, but not a great actor.

Hoffman's Capote (of which I've only seen excerpts) was also very real, very consistent, and nothing like anything that he had previously done. Also, it was nothing like the real Hoffman.
The movie was taken from a stage play, in which Robert Morse took the lead role. Morse did a wonderful job of it, but the excerpts of Hoffman in the same part indicate a far greater talent than Morse's.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

We're still talking about actors and movies........right? 

I can't think of any movie, or any actor, for that matter, that had anything to do with improving my life, with the exception of entertaining me for 90 minutes or so. 

Much ado about nothing actually. 

BTW.....Last I heard, the authorities arrested four individuals that they feel had something to do with Hoffman's death. Gee.....all four of them must have held him down and forced him to take heroin. Sad, sad world it is.............:watching:


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Scorpion8 said:


> Never heard of the guy myself, and you get addicted because you are weak-willed. That should not be glorified.


Very true. Not only weak-willed, but a personality flaw as well.

Some call it (drug / alcohol addiction) a disease. That always cracks me up.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

paratrooper said:


> ...I can't think of any movie, or any actor, for that matter, that had anything to do with improving my life...


Golly...Not even the Army's anti-VD films? :smt083


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> The mark of a really talented actor is that the audience actually believes the characterization. The actor "becomes" the character. In the case you describe, Hoffman seems to have convinced you.
> 
> It's very hard to do that. I know: Been there, done that, still occasionally do it. We think of Brando as a great actor, but, to me, he was always playing Brando. He was a rivetting personality, but not a great actor.
> 
> Hoffman's Capote (of which I've only seen excerpts) was also very real, very consistent, and nothing like anything that he had previously done. Also, it was nothing like the real Hoffman. The movie was taken from a stage play, in which Robert Morse took the lead role. Morse did a wonderful job of it, but the excerpts of Hoffman in the same part indicate a far greater talent than Morse's.


Hoffman's portrayal of Freddie Miles was convincing - Convincing within the context of a single movie. However, I've got several of Hoffman's other movies, as well as other information about his private life on which to base the entirety of the opinion I've formed.

Personally, I've never thought of Marlon Brando as a great anything - Not as an actor, not as a father, not as a particularly well self-disciplined human being.

As for, 'Capote'? OK, Hoffman's eccentric personality was a good fit; as for his acting ability? I'm a pretty good actor, too, especially when it comes to playing ....... me! In fact most people are very good at playing themselves.


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Deleted. Mysterious double-tap! (I don't know, 'Why'?) :smt017


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I got it the first time. :anim_lol:


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

You guys are putting too much stock into movies and the actors in them. 

I never did get the whole John Wayne thing..............:smt102


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Philip Seymour Hoffman, to be specific. I was over him the day that the news said he died.
> 
> First off, I'd never heard of him before. Not that it makes any difference, or changes his status as a drug addict and criminal. It's just that the news keeps dragging it out and making it like he was some kind of great person that did wonderful things for society.
> 
> ...


Never heard of him myself either. The whole story reminds me of Amy Winehouse though. She was a great singer -- sounded just like the lady who sang Goldfinger for James Bond 007. She was also detoxed. And she also relapsed big time -- alcohol not dope however.


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> You guys are putting too much stock into movies and the actors in them.
> 
> I never did get the whole John Wayne thing..............:smt102


Yah, John Wayne was a soldier wanna-be so he played one in the movies.

At least Clint Eastwood actually served in the US Army for awhile. But he was no Marine. So I did not appreciate him playing a Marine.

I prefer that actors like R.Lee Ermy who were really Marines play Marines in the movies. Now drop and give me 20!


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Glock Doctor said:


> Hoffman's portrayal of Freddie Miles was convincing - Convincing within the context of a single movie. However, I've got several of Hoffman's other movies, as well as other information about his private life on which to base the entirety of the opinion I've formed.
> 
> Personally, I've never thought of Marlon Brando as a great anything - Not as an actor, not as a father, not as a particularly well self-disciplined human being; and, again, I've got both his movies AND episodes of his too often out-of-control personal life on which to base this opinion.
> 
> As for, 'Capote'? OK, Hoffman's eccentric personality was a good fit; as for his acting ability? I'm a pretty good actor, too, especially when it comes to playing ....... me! In fact most people are very good at playing themselves. Does this mean that everybody deserves to receive an Oscar?


Brando , so he played a really great Mafia boss. The Godfather series was really done well. History has taught us that you can kill anybody. But you can't kill family -- that's not right. Of course if they rat on you then they are no longer family.

He also played a great Colonel in Apocalypse Now Redux. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? Those nabobs. I hate them.


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> We're still talking about actors and movies........right?
> 
> I can't think of any movie, or any actor, for that matter, that had anything to do with improving my life, with the exception of entertaining me for 90 minutes or so.
> 
> ...


Clint Eastwood taught me that everyone needs to know their own limitations. I have taken that to heart and it has changed my whole outlook on everything (Magnum Force).

Brad Pitt taught me that everyone dies, whether now or 50 years from now, it makes little difference (Troy).

Charlton Heston taught me that you can take my gun from my cold dead hands.

Actually I have learned a lot from several of them, besides the entertainment.


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

AdamSmith said:


> Clint Eastwood taught me that everyone needs to know their own limitations. I have taken that to heart and it has changed my whole outlook on everything (Magnum Force).
> 
> Brad Pitt taught me that everyone dies, whether now or 50 years from now, it makes little difference (Troy).
> 
> ...


Interesting!

Shortly after I met her, I took my wife (Then, my date.) to see Eastwood in, 'Magnum Force'. To this day she still reminds me of how aggressive and angry audience members were as they left the theater. A couple of people got into arguments. Others were very loud and shouted back and forth; and we had to dodge several cars that were going way too fast through the parking lot. So, yes, movies definitely do both teach and influence people - Not always for the better, either.

The overly aggressive behavior of that exiting audience aside, I still remember Callahan's ridiculous explanation of, 'Why' he used an S&W Model 29 as a duty sidearm. (By the time Callahan got finished with his little speech at the shooting range, his contrived explanation came down to the fact that Harry was actually using a 44 Special!)

'Troy' taught me something I already knew: Nobody is invincible; and, if you study the target carefully enough, there's always a way to get to anybody; but, everything's going to be a whole lot easier if you're able to (emotionally) compromise the target, first. (Well, that and don't think with your dick!) 

Loved your observation about Charlton Heston and taking guns away. Unfortunately you're absolutely correct. In, 'Planet Of The Apes' I learned that an ape without a gun is an ape without any civil rights; and in, 'Soylent Green' it became obvious that you should never to attempt to take on the establishment with nothing more than a Colt Detective Special. (I, also, learned that even people you don't particularly like ain't so bad with a side of fava beans.) :mrgreen:

As for Brando in, 'The Godfather'? He was, and remains, completely miscast to me; as far as I'm concerned, James Gandolfini's portrayal of Tony Soprano was much closer to the truth. Brando, also, lost me in, 'Apocalypse Now'. Other than mindless slaughter I didn't get the entire movie in, probably, exactly the same way that Lt. Colonel Anthony Herbert didn't get what was actually happening in Vietnam, either. (As a child I was mentored by a man who was very much like Anthony Herbert. Both were decorated war heroes and, 'moral warriors'. Both were, also, dismayed by the many, 'expediencies' and other sordid behaviors in today's modern warfare.)

Colonel Kurtz made absolutely no sense to me, at all; and, almost paradoxically, the Colonel's bewildered moral confusion seems to have carried over into Brando's own off-screen personal life. (Be careful what you allow yourself to emulate - Yes!)


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Actually, I did learn something from a tv show.

Sgt. Schultz (Hogan's Heroes) showed me that you can make the best of a bad situation. :mrgreen:


----------



## krell1 (Feb 2, 2014)

paratrooper said:


> You guys are putting too much stock into movies and the actors in them.
> 
> I never did get the whole John Wayne thing..............:smt102


I have to agree with paratrooper's comments. Never liked Hoffman and thought he "overdid" most of the roles he played. His performance in Twister was annoying at best. I loved the John Wayne movies but some of his acting wasn't that good. He had the image though and I love westerns anyway. I guess you'd call him a character actor. It is sad to see so many going the way of whatever addiction they choose. Bieber is now in the news for the same reasons, in and out of rehab. On the news they said they made arrests related to the Hoffman death. If he didn't die, these guys would still be plying their trade and continue providing drugs to the rich and famous.


----------



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Drugs of all kind, have and always will play a part in the lives of way too many. Sad that so many rely on drugs to get them thru the day, or hour, for that matter. 

I've dealt with them (people) for over 30 years, and have seen the consequences of such first hand. Doesn't matter the gender, color, profession, or social status. They all succumb to the devastating effects. Some do so w/o submitting to crime, and others do whatever it takes to maintain a certain comfort level. Some get so bad, that they will do anything, and I do mean anything, to get what they need. 

Some say that doing drugs is a victim-less crime. For the life of me, I don't know what they were smoking or injecting, when they said that.


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> Drugs of all kind, have and always will play a part in the lives of way too many. Sad that so many rely on drugs to get them thru the day, or hour, for that matter.
> 
> I've dealt with them (people) for over 30 years, and have seen the consequences of such first hand. Doesn't matter the gender, color, profession, or social status. They all succumb to the devastating effects. Some do so w/o submitting to crime, and others do whatever it takes to maintain a certain comfort level. Some get so bad, that they will do anything, and I do mean anything, to get what they need.
> 
> Some say that doing drugs is a victim-less crime. For the life of me, I don't know what they were smoking or injecting, when they said that.


I think drug problems all start when people are kids, and certain derelict delinquents on the school yard act as pushers towards them. Curiosity betrays them then. The pusher wants to make money, and he/she does that by ruining other people's lives.

From then on they are hooked. Same thing with cigarettes.

Some people are simply vulnerable, gullible, and curious.

Most of the dopers I knew in high school have long since either died from drugs, suicide, or gone to prison. Not a happy ending.


----------



## AdamSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

Glock Doctor said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Shortly after I met her, I took my wife (Then, my date.) to see Eastwood in, 'Magnum Force'. To this day she still reminds me of how aggressive and angry audience members were as they left the theater. A couple of people got into arguments. Others were very loud and shouted back and forth; and we had to dodge several cars that were going way too fast through the parking lot. So, yes, movies definitely do both teach and influence people - Not always for the better, either.
> 
> ...


The military caste anywhere, even in America, especially during wartime, is a very powerful and dangerous caste.

A colonel with a command can do tons of damage to the civil population as well as to the combatants.

Generals are even more powerful than colonels, in spades. But generals are theatre commanders, they don't go out into the field (certain notable exceptions like Patton and Puller being different). In the field, colonels run the show.

Rolling Thunder In A Gentle Land, by Andrew Weist, points out that Gen. Westmoreland himself was the primary cause of the loss of the Viet Nam War. And LBJ's choice of him over 3 other more competent generals, including Abrams, to command MACV was the reason Viet Nam was lost.

Apocalypse Now was simply a stage play about a crazy colonel. It was really Westmoreland who was crazy. Westmoreland wanted to fight Korea all over again in the jungles of Viet Nam. He never got his wish. 58,000+ dead Americans later, Abrams and Nixon pulled the USA out.

My favorite part of Apocalypse Now was the part about the French widow on the French rubber plantation, who hooked and reeled-in Martin Sheen with her charms. She said, "there are two of you, you know -- one who loves and the other who kills."

We are never told the complete ending of Apocalypse Now, but presumably Sheen went back to the rubber plantation to live with the widow and her family, and the Southern Cal surfer went with him. Everybody else in the drama was KIA. The jungle ate them alive.

And as Sheen had already pointed out, the rest of the world did not even exist anymore, for them.


----------



## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

Adam, Thank you for that very interesting explanation! Throughout his book, 'Soldier' Lt. Colonel Herbert intimated that he had come to similar conclusions, and held the same opinions as author Andrew Weist.

Soldier: Anthony B Herbert: 9780030914560: Amazon.com: Books


----------

