# Former Sheriff Joe Arpaio found guilty



## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

His sentencing date has been set for Oct. 5th.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio Found Guilty on Three Counts of Contempt by Federal Judge, Could Face Criminal Trial | Phoenix New Times


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> His sentencing date has been set for Oct. 5th.
> 
> Sheriff Joe Arpaio Found Guilty on Three Counts of Contempt by Federal Judge, Could Face Criminal Trial | Phoenix New Times


If Sheriff Joe didn't do his job, he'd still be sheriff today. Or retired and living the good life. The illegal invaders and criminals have taken over the country.


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Near as I can tell, the sheriff was running a Gestapo operation, only the victims were Latinos instead of Jews.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

He ran a bare bones jail no TV, no AC, pink uniforms and hard work. When the Feds quit picking up criminal aliens Joe had his deputies take them to the boarder. One inmate apon his release complained about the jail and Joe said " if you don't like the way you were treated don't do anything to get you sent to jail." Sounds reasonable to me. He did his job without PC getting in the way, and that is what made people mad. Yes more Latinos got arrested in his county but that is like complaining more blacks are shot in the south side of Chicago.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

He ignored a court order. He was a sheriff. He knew better. 

You can have 100 "atta boys" and get one "aw shit", and it all goes away.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman said:


> Near as I can tell, the sheriff was running a Gestapo operation, only the victims were Latinos instead of Jews.


Let's get one thing straight. They are illegal invaders and common criminals they weren't "victims". As far as I know none of them were herded into cattle cars, sent to so called "showers" and given a good dose of Zyklon B. Nor were there any crematoria set up. Maybe you'd better study up on Nazi atrocities before even making such an outlandish comparison.

So what if those illegal invaders, drug dealers, gang bangers, and street thugs had to live in tents, wear pink underwear and eat peanut butter sandwiches? If they hadn't broken any laws they wouldn't have been there to begin with. Crossing our borders without authorization is indeed a criminal act. So is dealing and possession of controlled substances along with all of the crimes that are associated with that trade. Those were the residents of Sheriff Joe's jail.

As far as I'm concerned this country needs more Sheriff Joe's.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> He ignored a court order. He was a sheriff. He knew better.
> 
> You can have 100 "atta boys" and get one "aw shit", and it all goes away.


I'll bet that there are people in every profession that have had at least one "aw shit" and no one ever made anything out of it. But with Sheriff Joe they were out to crucify him once he became a well known public figure because of his stance on illegal immigration and the way he ran his jail. All the bleeding hearts. I know that a lot of people including "yours truly" felt it was about time for a Sheriff Joe.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

desertman said:


> I'll bet that there are people in every profession that have had at least one "aw shit" and no one ever made anything out of it. But with Sheriff Joe they were out to crucify him once he became a well known public figure because of his stance on illegal immigration and the way he ran his jail. All the bleeding hearts. I know that a lot of people including "yours truly" felt it was about time for a Sheriff Joe.


There were lots and lots of lawsuits filed because of the way he ran his jails and his agency, that cost the AZ. tax payers millions and millions of dollars.

Make no mistake. There are countless sheriffs in this nation doing a great job. It's just that they don't require a lot of publicity and face time for the cameras.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> *There were lots and lots of lawsuits filed because of the way he ran his jails and his agency that cost the AZ. tax payers millions and millions of dollars.
> *
> Make no mistake. There are countless sheriffs in this nation doing a great job. It's just that they don't require a lot of publicity and face time for the cameras.


I can't argue with that. But I don't know if Sheriff Joe sought out the publicity or if the publicity sought out him?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

desertman said:


> I can't argue with that. But I don't know if Sheriff Joe sought out the publicity or if the publicity sought out him?


My issue was his arrogance and brashness. When things were going good, he'd take an interview at the drop of a hat. When things were going bad, you couldn't get to him for an interview to save a life.

Yes, he did a lot of good things. But, you have to own the bad along with the good. He always wanted to blame others for what should have been his. I think he was sheriff for over 20 yrs. or so. That's a long run, and ample time to make you think you are the emperor and can do no wrong.

When you're the high sheriff, you are the one making all the decisions and policies. He should have retired long ago, and given Maricopa County a chance for new blood. To be 82 or 83 yrs. old and still want to be sheriff, is crazy. Who does that? Oh yeah, Joe Arpaio.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

paratrooper said:


> My issue was his arrogance and brashness. When things were going good, he'd take an interview at the drop of a hat. When things were going bad, you couldn't get to him for an interview to save a life.
> 
> Yes, he did a lot of good things. But, you have to own the bad along with the good. He always wanted to blame others for what should have been his. I think he was sheriff for over 20 yrs. or so. That's a long run, and ample time to make you think you are the emperor and can do no wrong.
> 
> When you're the high sheriff, you are the one making all the decisions and policies. He should have retired long ago, and given Maricopa County a chance for new blood. *To be 82 or 83 yrs. old and still want to be sheriff, is crazy. Who does that?* Oh yeah, Joe Arpaio.


John McCain at 80 is still senator. Then there's Ginsberg 84, Kennedy 81 and Breyer at 78 as Supreme Court justices.


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

desertman said:


> John McCain at 80 is still senator. Then there's Ginsberg 84, Kennedy 81 and Breyer at 78 as Supreme Court justices.


What can I say? I figured 30 yrs. in LE was enough. That, and I wanted to enjoy life and realized that I wasn't getting any younger, and that my physical abilities were slipping away little by little.

No way in Hell was I going to let some punk kid half my age hand my ass to me someday.

In regards to The Supreme Court Justices, I don't believe that they are as mentally sharp as they were so many years ago. No one on the face of this earth, gets better physically and mentally as they continue to grow older.

The fact that Ginsberg is still serving is a joke. Is she going to continue until one day she collapses on the bench and dies?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Yea some people just can't let go


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

tony pasley said:


> Yea some people just can't let go


Dunno what Sheriff Joe thinks, but betcha Justice Ginsberg equates leaving the job with ending her life.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

If she dies sitting on the bench, how long will it take for some one to notice?


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

Rumor has it, when she (Ginsberg) reports in for work, they wheel her in on a gurney. 

And, who came up with the bright idea to make Supreme Court Justices a life-time appointment? No government position should ever be such.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

When they started the life time appointment average life span was 55 years but today those stubborn liberals just keep hanging on afraid a conservative will be their replacement.


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## CentexShooter (Dec 30, 2007)

hillman said:


> Near as I can tell, the sheriff was running a Gestapo operation, only the victims were Latinos instead of Jews.


You don't have to live amongst those animals up there. We need a lot more Sheriff Joes.


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## RodKo (Jun 7, 2017)

Those on the left that are celebrating Sheriff Joe's conviction had better be careful in what they are wishing for. They may find that his cellmates are the officials of the "sanctuary" cites and counties across the country.


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## BOOGIE_the_oily (May 8, 2017)

Joe Arpaio should be put to death.



Desertman said:


> Let's get one thing straight. They are illegal invaders and common criminals they weren't "victims".


Let's get one thing straight, so you stop talking sh!t you know nothing about.
I was one of those "illegal invaders and common criminals". So what I'm about to say happened to ME. I didn't read it on Fox News.

I lived in the US since July 2000 to March 2013.

Paid ALL my taxes. Never got as much as a penny in return.
Didn't have ANY criminal record whatsoever. Not even an unpaid traffic ticket.
Never used any kind of welfare. Not even unemployment benefits, even after being employed. 
Never worked any job that any American would even care (or DARE) to do. In the only job I had American coworkers (Advanced Technologies, the biggest DirecTV HSP in the country (a division of MasTec North America)), there were 2 of them, one white guy, and a black guy who could easily be Samuel L. Jackson's double. Two people, among 260 technicians.
The ONLY time I went to a hospital (Jackson Memorial), I got (and paid in full) a $1375 bill, just for getting my temperature and blood pressure taken, and for the doctor to fill a prescription for ranitidine and metochlopramide. The doctor never left his desk to examine me.
I got to work up to 120 Hr. weeks, for 2 and a half years, for a grand total of $400 to $500 a week. Now, if you crunch the numbers, that's 16 to 18 hours, 7 days a week. Tell me how many of your countrymen would last a month doing that.
I wasn't considered an "alien invader" when you needed blood for your soldiers in Irak. Nobody gave a damn where the blood came from.
I wasn't considered a "common criminal" when my expertise on a certain kind of very sophisticated motion sensor was needed to help your soldiers deal with the Irakis' IED's either. Amazing how fast you can go from being a "great help, thank you so much", to a "common criminal" when they don't need you anymore.
I worked for the Miami International Airport, the Quantico USMC base, and the Fort Belvoir U.S. Army base. I wasn't considered a criminal in there either.

Then, on March 2012, I TURNED MYSELF IN TO I.C.E.. Yes, they didn't catch me. They actually didn't know what to do with me.
When they finally figured out what they had to do, they did it very reluctantly. The guy who handcuffed me actually apologized to me, 3 times. 
Then, they sent me to one of your concentration camps (you can call them "Detention Centers", if you like I.C.E's euphemisms). The "Broward Transition Center" at 3900 N. Powerline Rd., Pompano Beach, Fla. 
You're right, there were no ovens, no Zyklon B. They just starved us half to death (the "normal" was for "detainees" to lose anywhere from 15 to 30 Lbs. in the first month). I lost 18, denied us pretty much any medical care (A guy from Ecuador almost died from a burst gallbladder, while he was being "treated" for a stomach flu. And the treatment? Ibuprofen. Luckily for him, his attorney got him out on humanitarian reasons, right on time), and did pretty much everything they could to deny us anything that would make us "human". To the point that some of the guards (my eternal thanks to them) would smuggle what they could into the building, to help ease our situation a bit.

Furthermore, being that you're so keen on citing a law you clearly know nothing about, I'll let you in on a little secret your politicians won't tell you: staying illegally in the US is a MISDEMEANOR, not a crime. So we're the criminals that committed no crimes.

In any case, and from a purely practical standpoint, you know what I'd like?
I'd like for EVERY ILLEGAL ALIEN in the US to just pack up and leave your country. I mean, not within a year, but just within a few days. Just leave.
Let's see how long it takes for your great economy to collapse like a house of cards. Or let's see how many of you fat cats will get up at 4:00 in the morning, and go work 14 hr. days with NO BREAKS picking fruit or produce, for a grand total of $20 (yeah, "twenty", not a typo) a week. Or how many of you will go hang from a 14th story window so somebody can watch the game on his TV.
And then, when YOUR PEOPLE are as desperate as we were when we emigrated, I'd love for all our countries to shut their doors at you, just like you did to us. Let's see how'd you like that.

Of course, I know that's not gonna happen, and so do you. Pity. That'd teach you a lesson on humility, and humanity.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

BOOGIE_the_oily said:


> Joe Arpaio should be put to death.
> 
> Let's get one thing straight, so you stop talking sh!t you know nothing about.
> 
> Furthermore, being that you're so keen on citing a law you clearly know nothing about, I'll let you in on a little secret your politicians won't tell you: staying illegally in the US is a MISDEMEANOR, not a crime. So we're the criminals that committed no crimes.


There is a legal process to come to the United States. If you came into this country illegally then you don't belong here. Period! Nobody forced you to come here. The first thing you did when you set foot on United States soil was commit a misdemeanor which is indeed a crime. I suggest you look up the meaning of the word misdemeanor. You've decided to say the hell with our laws, I'm invading your country whether you like it or not. Now that I'm here illegally I expect you to cater to my every need. It's no different than barging into someone's home uninvited and demanding to be fed.

You made your own bed, too bad you had to lay in it. You talk as if we owe you something. We don't owe you anything. Sorry but you'll get no sympathy from me. Go tell your sob stories somewhere else.



> Misdemeanor - definition of misdemeanor by The Free Dictionary
> mis·de·mean·or (mĭs′dĭ-mē′nər) n. *1. A misdeed. 2. Law A criminal offense that is less serious than a felony and generally punishable by a fine, a jail ...*
> 
> What is MISDEMEANOR? definition of MISDEMEANOR (Black's Law ...
> ...


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Desertman you left off a few charges first they never seem to come alone that is conspiracy to commit a crime= felony. Next they don't stay where they cross the boarder they get moving so they don't get caught: Flight to avoid = felony. After this come Tax evasion and or I.D. theft = felony. Now that is 3 felonies and 1 misdemeanor to start with for the so-called honest hard working undocumented aliens".


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

tony pasley said:


> Desertman you left off a few charges first they never seem to come alone that is conspiracy to commit a crime= felony. Next they don't stay where they cross the boarder they get moving so they don't get caught: Flight to avoid = felony. After this come Tax evasion and or I.D. theft = felony. Now that is 3 felonies and 1 misdemeanor to start with for the so-called honest hard working undocumented aliens".


Oh I'm sure that there are many others. Thanks for pointing that out.

Actually I blame the politicians that got us into this mess more than the illegal invaders. There are no rational reasons for allowing the importation of tens of millions of the world's indigent populations to our shores. Other than to create a permanent underclass that can be controlled for votes. The illegal invaders are nothing more than a means to an end to advance a totalitarian socialist agenda. What better way to accomplish this than to open up our borders to poorly educated, impoverished people who have no concept of our system of government and the principles of which this nation was founded? Many do not speak a word of English and have no desire to assimilate into our culture and society. Why should they when there are communities throughout the United States where they can congregate and live as though they've never left their home country? Because of this they can be easily manipulated especially when our benevolent government is taking care of their every need. But what they fail to realize is that they've only become slaves to that very same government, condemned to a life of poverty and despair. Socialism never lifted all boats, it sank a hell of a lot of them that's for sure.

If it were up to me, nothing and I mean nothing would be printed or broadcast anywhere in the United States in any foreign language whatsoever. One language, one people regardless of race, color or creed. United we stand, divided we fall. As it is now we are indeed falling.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

A common thread with the criminal aliens is they come from countries that the governments control all aspects of their lives, next corruption in the governments is standard operating procedure and wealthy criminals operate openly by bribery. Ideal progressive voters.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Hey *Boogie*, here's something for you to ponder:

_All_ of my grandparents were immigrants to the US from countries where they were part of an oppressed minority.
But _none of them_ sneaked into the US. They came here legally, after meeting all of the criteria including a stiff medical examination.
One of them brought his family with him.

I constantly tell my Senator and my Representative that we need to completely revise our antiquated and exclusionary immigration laws, and that we really need to re-institute the old guest-worker Bracero Program.
But the inequities of our present immigration laws are nevertheless not valid excuses for sneaking into the US, and committing a crime while doing so. Change may be needed, but the law is still the law.

I resent the influx of people who have not followed the same legally-required procedures that my grandparents did. What makes the "undocumented" so special, that they don't need to wait their turn just like the law-abiding prospective immigrants?
Every "undocumented" immigrant who sneaks in takes the place of someone who is still awaiting his legal turn to enter. What makes the "undocumented" so special, that they don't need to wait their turn like the law-abiding prospective immigrants?

What made you so special?
And also, why did you finally turn yourself in for deportation?

*A Side Issue:*
I was recently asked, by the government of the county in which I live, to write the "Argument Against" the initiative that will appear on our next ballot, which seeks to make my county a "sanctuary" for illegal immigrants.
I was happy to do so. I submitted my finished "Argument Against" just yesterday. Much of what I wrote is in my note to you, above.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Hey *Boogie*, here's something for you to ponder:
> 
> _All_ of my grandparents were immigrants to the US from countries where they were part of an oppressed minority.
> But _none of them_ sneaked into the US. They came here legally, after meeting all of the criteria including a stiff medical examination.
> ...


A lot of it really boils down to that. Very good Steve! The only other point that I want to make is that there's just not enough to go around to take care of our own people let alone support the tens of millions of illegal invaders. And the millions yet to come. It's like only having enough to feed a family of four and now you've got forty people pounding at your door demanding to be fed.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

dek said:


> maybe i shouldnt be personal. but you guys shouldnt be so rude to/on *immigrants*. you once were just the same on the land you are on right now.
> 
> will be my last post in this thread if nobody quotes me on that statement


Immigrants? You conveniently left out the word *ILLEGAL*.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

I use the term CRIMINAL


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## paratrooper (Feb 1, 2012)

dek said:


> maybe i shouldnt be personal. but you guys shouldnt be so rude to/on immigrants. you once were just the same on the land you are on right now.
> 
> the land of the free and home of the brave right`?
> 
> will be my last post in this thread if nobody quotes me on that statement


Try not to let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

> you once were just the same on the land you are on right now.


What a crock of shit! I love it when they try to use the argument that those of us that were born on this soil along with generations of our family are no different than those who have entered this country illegally. This does not include "anchor babies" born to illegal invaders. That practice has got to stop. Anyone born to any foreigner who is not a legal American citizen should assume the citizenship of their parents nationality.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Babies born to foreign nationals hold dual citizenship status but can not declare citizenship until they are of legal age. The progressives have perverted the 14th amendment to mean something it does not nor was not intended. There is no such thing


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## BOOGIE_the_oily (May 8, 2017)

Hey Steve, I'm glad you decided to join the discussion. Gives me a chance to have an intelligent chat with somebody, for a change...



> All of my grandparents were immigrants to the US from countries where they were part of an oppressed minority.
> But none of them sneaked into the US. They came here legally, after meeting all of the criteria including a stiff medical examination.
> One of them brought his family with him.


Of course they did.
Now, I don't know your age, but you look a bit older than I am (I'm 52). So I guess your grandparents arrived into the US in the beginning of the 20th Century. 
Now, I have some homework for you to do: get some information about what were the requisites your grandparents had to meet, and compare them with the ones a prospective immigrant has to meet now. 
Now, ask yourself a few questions: would your grandparents have met the actual criteria? And if they didn't, would they have stayed where they were, or would they have "sneaked in" anyway?
I'm not saying it's right. People do strange things when they're desperate.

Thomas Paine said: "The World is my country, Mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion". When did you lose those values? 
When did "the law" become more important than the person it's applied to?
You got to a point at which you can hurt somebody, and, if you chat the judge, or if you get a smart lawyer, you get out with but a slap on the wrist (I've seen it happen), but if you "sneak in" with the sole purpose of working honestly for years, you don't even have a right to minimally proper food, shelter and medical care while being incarcerated. 
Does that sound right to you?



> I constantly tell my Senator and my Representative that we need to completely revise our antiquated and exclusionary immigration laws, and that we really need to re-institute the old guest-worker Bracero Program.


Yes, you do, and so do many others. 
But while you keep arguing for years what to do, and how to do it, people keep "sneaking in", because they have no other option, and you happily look the other way, because you know illegal immigrants are cheap slave labor, and you need that, or else your "American Dream" would become an "American Nightmare" in the blink of an eye. 
And yes, you'd love to have the bracero program back in business. 
The bracero program was just an example of what I said above: bring Mexicans in, make them work as slaves for pennies on the dollar, and then kick them back to their country when you don't need them anymore. 
And meanwhile you control their work, transportation, housing, and their whole lives, so no one would have the slightest chance to finally get ahead.



> But the inequities of our present immigration laws are nevertheless not valid excuses for sneaking into the US, and committing a crime while doing so. Change may be needed, but the law is still the law.


Nobody is looking for an excuse, valid or not. 
And yes, the law is still the law, and the law says a human being has a number of rights, and those rights have to be respected, ALWAYS, not only when it's convenient to you.



> I resent the influx of people who have not followed the same legally-required procedures that my grandparents did. What makes the "undocumented" so special, that they don't need to wait their turn just like the law-abiding prospective immigrants?


You honestly think living as an illegal alien makes you "special"? Really?
You think, if we had a chance to do things right, we wouldn't do it, because we're "special"?
During the almost 13 years I spent in your country, I lost count how many times I went to attorneys' offices, to check if there was a chance to get on the right path, no matter the cost. I spent a year (379 days, exactly) in prison, being treated like PETA wouldn't let animals be treated, with no other hope than to be deported. You think I would've hesitated for a second to accept whatever sentence your government saw fit, in order to become a legal resident?
Then again, while living there, I had two chances of getting my legal status the wrong way. 
Two US citizens (one Puertorican, the other one Cuban) wanted to marry me. But me being the honest idiot I am (and yes, I know what you will say. Keep reading.), I didn't do it, because it felt wrong to start my life, in the country I loved, that way. 
So, tell me: getting married to a citizen would've automatically made me a legal resident, without going through the procedures your grandparents had to endure. 
What would've made me "special" if I had done so? 
You think it's right to be awarded legal residence for dodging the law, while people who won't do that get deported?



> Every "undocumented" immigrant who sneaks in takes the place of someone who is still awaiting his legal turn to enter. What makes the "undocumented" so special, that they don't need to wait their turn like the law-abiding prospective immigrants?


Not true. Illegal immigrants are, by their own nature, unaccounted for. 
They have no effect whatsoever on the legal immigration procedures. 
Not only that, but illegal immigrants normally take jobs legal immigrants wouldn't dream to do, so they're not affected on that, either.



> What made you so special?
> And also, why did you finally turn yourself in for deportation?


Like I already said, there's nothing "special" about being an illegal immigrant. You want to know why I decided to do what I did?
Initially, I didn't care at all for the US. I would've rather gone to hell.
A lot of Americans think they hate you (in other countries) because they envy you. 
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. 
You're hated because of two things: first, because of the way your government keeps meddling in other countries' internal affairs. I guess aliens have no right to sneak into your country, but you do have a right to barge into whatever country you please, and take what you want, with or without their permission.
And second, because what others "know" (and I "knew") about your country, is what we see in the movies: people killing each other on the streets for no reason at all, punks dealing drugs at every corner, etc. You get the picture.
So I wanted to go to Spain. I have a right to Spanish and Italian citizenship, because my grandparents were immigrants also.
The reason I went to the US is because I was really pressed for time (my country was about to sink in the worst crisis of its history), and because I didn't have the money for the trip (the plane ticket to the US was $497, while the ticket to Madrid was $1500), but the idea was to stay in the US long enough to get money for the ticket, and then fly to Spain, and work to start my own business. I had at the time a prototype for a radio controlled race car, that I wanted to manufacture. With the added benefit that R/C cars are very hot in there, so I had the market for it.
The problem is, when I arrived, I realized all I "knew" about the US was bu11$hit. And then I made my first mistake: I fell in love with what I saw.

THEN is when I started caring about doing things the right way.

Then, I found out the "way" to produce a competitive R/C car is to put the drawings on a CD, and send them to China along with the money, and they will put the finished cars back in your city, ready to be sold, for pennies on the dollar. So that wasn't the way I wanted to do things, so the whole thing went down the drain.
In the meantime, I knew a guy that had a bunch of guns. Of course, being an illegal alien, I couldn't dream about shooting them, but since mechanics is my thing, I started studying them, and ended designing one of my own. Then, I started working towards getting the tools to start my own gun factory, and getting my legal status revised. 
The good part is I did get the money.
Then, another "friend" (American born, Argentinian descendant), asked to borrow my savings "for 90 days", and I (shame on me) trusted him. There went my "friend" and my money. 
That's another thing you don't get about being an illegal alien: once somebody finds out, we're fair game. Does that feel "special" to you?

From then on, I started all over again. 
Got a job at Advance Auto Parts, with a Jamaican store manager who was one of the best bosses I've ever had. 
But since good things never last, about a year later he was transferred to a different store, and we got a new manager: a Peruvian girl who had just been the manager at another store, and had fired 7 out of the 8 employees working in it.
So a short while later, the company decided to fill several open management positions, and let the employees know they had started the trials. I signed in (because it also was a chance to move to another store, with a different store manager), and was put in front of a computer, to take a test. 
The test was about general mechanics, and the computer allowed 2 hours to complete it. 
I already knew one of the assistant managers in my store had to take it 3 times to pass it. 
It took me 7 minutes to complete it, and passed it with flying colors. Then, exactly a week before getting transferred to a different store as an assistant manager, the b!tch fired me. 
I was #5 in that store. 
Three months later, she had fired all 9 employees, including 2 assistant managers, one of which had been working in the Company for 8 years. 
From then on, (this was at the end of 2009, so the 2008 crisis was in full effect) I was unable to get another job, so I did whatever I could (to the point of yard selling most of my stuff), until it got to a point in which I was living at a friend's home, who was getting all kinds of flak from the neighbors' association for my presence in there, so my choices were to keep damaging my friend, to become homeless, or to turn myself in. 
And that's what I did.



> A Side Issue:
> I was recently asked, by the government of the county in which I live, to write the "Argument Against" the initiative that will appear on our next ballot, which seeks to make my county a "sanctuary" for illegal immigrants.
> I was happy to do so. I submitted my finished "Argument Against" just yesterday. Much of what I wrote is in my note to you, above.


Well, I have a friendly challenge for you: do the opposite.
You completed an "Argument Against" making your county a sanctuary for illegal immigrants. Now, put yourself in their shoes, and do an "Argument For". 
You seem like a nice guy, so that shouldn't be such and effort, if you decide to stop thinking as a republican, and start thinking as a human being.


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

BOOGIE_the_oily said:


> Hey Steve...stop thinking as a republican, and start thinking as a human being.


I'm not a Republican.
(I'm not a Democrat, either.)
It's foolish to classify people based merely upon assumptions, without direct knowledge of them.

I am a human being, so, like it or not, I think like one.
I am also a _moral_ human being.
I believe in "the rule of law" as a means of making the relations among people easier and smoother.
I also believe that if I don't like a certain law, the remedy is to work to change it, rather than ignoring or flouting it.
In my personal morality, condoning the flouting or breaking of a law by someone else is the same as flouting or breaking it yourself.
Sneaking into this country is breaking (or flouting) a law. I can't condone it.

My ancestors came to the US at a time when there were so many applicants for entry that a very tiny flaw in one's application, attitude, appearance, and even health was enough to deny that person entry. And to find out if you would be admitted, you first had to get here. There was no pre-screening.
Getting here was a very expensive proposition. People from Central and Eastern Europe had to save for almost a lifetime, in order to pay for passage to a place from which they could be kicked out almost on an Immigration Inspector's whim.
And yet they came, because their countries of origin were deadly hell-holes where "the rule of law" meant nothing. It was worth taking the chance.
And because they were moral people who sought a place to live where "the rule of law" was respected, they followed the rules to get here, and to get in.

So I have little patience for people who do not respect "the rule of law." This includes my lack of respect for people who sneak into someplace, not because their fear of torture and death, but for mere economic improvement.
Think, for instance, of someone who sneaks into the movie theater, and takes the seat which you had just paid $12.00 for. Do you condone his actions? I don't.
And if you are indeed in fear of torture and death, the US does have a mechanism to permit you to enter here as a refugee, without having to wait in line. So there is absolutely no excuse for breaking our laws which control immigration.

The old Bracero Program was not a path to slavery. Nobody from Mexico was _required_ to come here to work. The "braceros" came here voluntarily because they could earn more money here than they could in Mexico.
Working for wages, after all, is a form of contract between the worker and the employer. Either side can break the contract at will. If I don't offer enough pay, or if I lie to the worker about how much money he will make in my employ, he can either quit now, or, if he truly is being held in slavery, he can refuse to re-apply when the next hiring call comes up. The "slavery" was always seasonal; it was never continuous. There was always an escape, and bad employers quickly ran out of workers.

A new Bracero Program would afford "guest workers" the same opportunity for economic advancement as the old one did, without the "undocumented" immigrant's true slavery of being forbidden from complaining about bad-faith employers because of the worker's illegal status.
You were badly treated by your employer. Had you been a legal resident or a citizen, you could have used "the rule of law" to ruin your employer's business. But you had sneaked into this country, so you were hampered by your own illegality.
The bad treatment you suffered was real, true slavery, because you had no recourse to the law and to the penalties your employer should have been made to suffer. And that slavery was of your own doing.
You therefore have no right of complaint: The advantages of "the rule of law" do not apply to someone who breaks the law.

And while you're giving me advice upon how to think, I suggest that you stop making excuses for your illegal act, and instead own up to it, and to the woe you brought down upon yourself by sneaking into the US instead of entering legally.


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> I'm not a Republican.
> (I'm not a Democrat, either.)
> It's foolish to classify people based merely upon assumptions, without direct knowledge of them.
> 
> ...


You really hit that one out of the ball park Steve. Congratulations for a job well done!


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

"We endeavour to please, sir." —Jeeves


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> "We endeavour to please, sir." -Jeeves


Not so much a matter of trying to please. You've presented a clear concise argument that any rational person will find hard to refute. Again my congratulations to you for a job well done! Simply outstanding!


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Desertman don't praise him too much he will get a big head and his wife will have to put him back in his place lol


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## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

tony pasley said:


> Desertman don't praise him too much he will get a big head and his wife will have to put him back in his place lol


She already does, constantly.
(She likes to be on top.)

Should I say something about "getting big head," too?


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

tony pasley said:


> Desertman don't praise him too much he will get a big head and his wife will have to put him back in his place lol


Steve writes some pretty good stuff. But this time he really out did himself. I don't think he'll get a big head what he wrote came straight from his heart. You just can't make this stuff up.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> She already does, constantly.
> (She likes to be on top.)
> 
> Should I say something about "getting big head," too?


Dreaming he is only dreaming


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## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

Oh, we may 'get rid of' illegal immigration - by permitting conditions here to become as bad as they are in the countries being fled.


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## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)




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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

hillman said:


> Oh, we may 'get rid of' illegal immigration - *by permitting conditions here to become as bad as they are in the countries being fled.*


As long as we have the 2nd Amendment that will never happen. Maybe that's why it hasn't happened yet?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Chicago is real close


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

tony pasley said:


> Chicago is real close


That's because the 2nd Amendment is dead in Chicago for all practical purposes.


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## BigHead (Jul 5, 2015)

*From the article: About a year after a 2012 bench trial.* 
Well I think that I found your mistake, Joe. How could you be so stupid, as to accept a bench trial? You should have demanded a jury trial, now his honor is gonna stick it to ya. I figured you for a smarter man.


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## pic (Nov 14, 2009)

BigHead said:


> *From the article: About a year after a 2012 bench trial.*
> Well I think that I found your mistake, Joe. How could you be so stupid, as to accept a bench trial? You should have demanded a jury trial, now his honor is gonna stick it to ya. I figured you for a smarter man.


might be a strategic political move for early release. Maybe not to piss Off a jury after Trumps 'pardon' ) why get the people involved..It's a shame our sheriffs position is determined by votes,, OH ! ? 
Did Joe Arp.. Get voted
In by the people . 
Not sure if it's political , to tired to google. Lol. .

..


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## desertman (Aug 29, 2013)

pic said:


> might be a strategic political move for early release. Maybe not to piss Off a jury after Trumps 'pardon' ) why get the people involved..It's a shame our sheriffs position is determined by votes,, OH ! ?
> *Did Joe Arp.. Get voted*
> In by the people .
> Not sure if it's political , to tired to google. Lol. .
> ...


All sheriffs are elected by the people in Arizona. I believe throughout the country as well. Unfortunately for "Sheriff Joe" and for the rest of us as well. Everything is political including the courts which should be impartial.


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