# .40 cal



## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Why is .40 and .45 so popular in amercia . When most in the rest of the world are happy with 9mm.


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## Rupert (Oct 2, 2009)

Because America got it right.

And we don't like the metric system.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

Probably the same reason soccer is so popular in the rest of the world, but just doesn't cut it here in America.

Most caliber discussions seem to devolve into a shot placement defense of smaller calibers. However, if the center mark of the shots would strike the target in identical places, would you rather have hit with a 9mm or a .45 bullet? In hunting a case can be made for wanting to use the smaller bullet, likewise in target shooting, but in self defense I have yet to hear a good case for smaller is better.


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## propellerhead (May 19, 2006)

9mm is popular here too. We just have options.


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Couch Potato said:


> Probably the same reason soccer is so popular in the rest of the world, but just doesn't cut it here in America.
> 
> Most caliber discussions seem to devolve into a shot placement defense of smaller calibers. However, if the center mark of the shots would strike the target in identical places, would you rather have hit with a 9mm or a .45 bullet? In hunting a case can be made for wanting to use the smaller bullet, likewise in target shooting, but in self defense I have yet to hear a good case for smaller is better.


Hi All calibers are a compromise we could all carry .50 cal pistols but it would not be practical . 5.65 mm is a compromise from 7.62 mm . Rounds are lighter you can carry more, more control on auto ect. Same goes for 9mm . Yes the americans like something caled american football .


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

propellerhead said:


> 9mm is popular here too. We just have options.


Hi We have options to i have a .45 and a 9mm had a .40 sold it .


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## BugDude (Sep 5, 2010)

.40 is a good balance and kind of splits the difference between 9 and 45. Slightly larger and more oomph than 9mm, but you still have decent capacity in a double stack compact frame. You hear of people going into ERs getting shot 3 times with 9mm and walking out of the hospital...not too many of those with .40 or .45. Shot placement is indeed king. One can certainly defend oneself effectively with a 9mm. For some, the extra capacity and more controlability of a 9mm makes it advantageous. Everyone has to find their own balance of pros and cons. Everything is a comprimise of some sort.


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Rupert said:


> Because America got it right.
> 
> And we don't like the metric system.


We had the same idea with the .455 call before going to .38 and then 9mm. The most popular pistol and sub machine gun round in history.


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

manta said:


> Hi All calibers are a compromise we could all carry .50 cal pistols but it would not be practical . 5.65 mm is a compromise from 7.62 mm . Rounds are lighter you can carry more, more control on auto ect. Same goes for 9mm . Yes the americans like something caled american football.


Certainly compromises are made for all weapons. Even with nuclear missiles you have the choice between single warhead missiles and multiple warhead missiles each of which have their strong points and weak points.

I'm sure some here in America do carry .50 cal pistols, and would mount a nuclear missile in the back of their vehicle if they could. *Americans like variety, and demand choices.* The idea of being just like everyone else is repulsive to Americans, and yet they do enjoy having people agree with them. My preferred pistol right now is a .22 cal, but then self defense is not the purpose of my shooting right now.

Football season has just begun in America, and life is good once again. :mrgreen:


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

BugDude said:


> .40 is a good balance and kind of splits the difference between 9 and 45. Slightly larger and more oomph than 9mm, but you still have decent capacity in a double stack compact frame. You hear of people going into ERs getting shot 3 times with 9mm and walking out of the hospital...not too many of those with .40 or .45. Shot placement is indeed king. One can certainly defend oneself effectively with a 9mm. For some, the extra capacity and more controlability of a 9mm makes it advantageous. Everyone has to find their own balance of pros and cons. Everything is a comprimise of some sort.


If you are hit in a non vital area with a 9mm or a 45 it wont kill you . If you are hit in a vital area it will kill you . Same outcome both cal .


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

manta said:


> If you are hit in a non vital area with a 9mm or a 45 it wont kill you . If you are hit in a vital area it will kill you . Same outcome both call .


Yes, but if the 9mm just missed the "vital area," a 45 centered in the exact same spot will hit the "vital area" due to the larger diameter of the wound.


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## Rupert (Oct 2, 2009)

manta said:


> We had the same idea with the .455 call before going to .38 and then 9mm. The most popular pistol and sub machine gun round in history.


You missed the part where .45 came after .38.

So what is your theory on why we don't embrace the 9mm? I own a pair of .45's and a pair of .357's, and my wife has a 9mm because she liked the way it fit. I don't feel undergunned with any of them, I just don't personally own my own 9mm.


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## HadEmAll (Dec 27, 2007)

Most of the rest of the world is pretty screwed up where handgun ownership is concerned. Hardly a meaningful comparison.


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## Tx944 (Sep 3, 2010)

*The real Reason is we promote Freedom*



manta said:


> Why is .40 and .45 so popular in amercia . When most in the rest of the world are happy with 9mm.


Hi, you can always look at it in this way,
If it makes you feel better start calling the 40 auto a 10MM instead.
The .40 S&W is a 10X22mm cartridge.
Then your back to metrics and happy again.

The .45ACP has killed more bad guys then any other caliber in the world.
It's the reason you and many other country's don't have to talk german. 
no offense intended.


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

The .45 ( a distinctly American caliber) was adopted by the army back when the .38s were not getting the job done in the Philippines (according to legend).

It made a big hole and did not depend on expansion for results. In the military a full jacket is required and expansion does not happen.

So if you compare a military .45 with a military 9mm the .45 will leave a much larger wound.

Civilian and police service ammo does expand and the 9mm can be made to travel fast enough for reliable expansion--thus narrowing the damage gap between the 9mm and the .45.

But American judgement is based on the military reputation of stopping power for the .45 and the lack of that for the 9mm.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

The .45 ACP is just a sensible caliber. It puts a powerful impact on the target, without beating up the shooter. That big soft push that is the recoil of the .45 is actually quite pleasant to an experienced shooter.

The .40 S&W, on the other hand, was just a compromise between the very effective 10mm round that is a great combat-power type round, and the 9mm, which is perceived to have failed so miserably in the Miami shoot-out that prompted a re-assessment of law enforcement armaments. 

In reality, the 9mm, properly loaded for self defense with modern ammo, gives up very little to the .40 S&W, but so many police forces have bought into it, the .40 is probably here to stay.

But basically, it's just that Americans like to do things their own way. :mrgreen:


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## Green Laser (Sep 10, 2010)

*options*



propellerhead said:


> 9mm is popular here too. We just have options.


 Options is the key.....the rest of the world has Nothing or worse yet Orders!:buttkick:


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

Packard said:


> The .45 ( a distinctly American caliber) was adopted by the army back when the .38s were not getting the job done in the Philippines (according to legend).
> 
> It made a big hole and did not depend on expansion for results. In the military a full jacket is required and expansion does not happen.
> 
> ...


Much larger is right, as in about a 50% larger hole. Remember, the area of a circle is not a linear function. The size of the hole increases based on the square of the radius.


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Tx944 said:


> Hi, you can always look at it in this way,
> If it makes you feel better start calling the 40 auto a 10MM instead.
> The .40 S&W is a 10X22mm cartridge.
> Then your back to metrics and happy again.
> ...


I Think you will find 9mm has killed more people than .45 The germans and british both used it in there pistols and smg s during ww2 . The 9mm is the most pupular and most widely used pistol round in history ( Fact ) . If It is good enough for the SAS its good enough for me. (The SAS are the ones the amercian army copied to create the delta force ) Even the american army came round to or way of thinking.


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Rupert said:


> You missed the part where .45 came after .38.
> 
> So what is your theory on why we don't embrace the 9mm? I own a pair of .45's and a pair of .357's, and my wife has a 9mm because she liked the way it fit. I don't feel undergunned with any of them, I just don't personally own my own 9mm.


I Said.455 not .45 the british used both .455 and .38 in their pistols in ww2 .


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Bisley said:


> The .45 ACP is just a sensible caliber. It puts a powerful impact on the target, without beating up the shooter. That big soft push that is the recoil of the .45 is actually quite pleasant to an experienced shooter.
> 
> The .40 S&W, on the other hand, was just a compromise between the very effective 10mm round that is a great combat-power type round, and the 9mm, which is perceived to have failed so miserably in the Miami shoot-out that prompted a re-assessment of law enforcement armaments.
> 
> ...


I Think most people realise now that the FBI blamed the 9mm rather than there bad tactics . Going to a rifle fight with pistols ect .


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## Rupert (Oct 2, 2009)

What is the point that you are trying to get across?


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## Couch Potato (Jun 3, 2010)

*Point?*

The point is pointless arguments are the most fun. I do think we can find some common ground if we shift on over to discussing the French. :smt082


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## Rupert (Oct 2, 2009)

This just turned into a new version of .45 vs 9mm, however instead of any factual information or intelligent discussion coming out of it, its more like tell the stupid Yanks they are using big pointless cartridges.


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Rupert said:


> This just turned into a new version of .45 vs 9mm, however instead of any factual information or intelligent discussion coming out of it, its more like tell the stupid Yanks they are using big pointless cartridges.


HI I never said i did not like .45 . I have a para ordnance 14 45 and its my favourite pistol . But for personal protection i would carry a 9mm . For the reasons i have stated . As for .40 when you have 9mm and .45 i dont see the need for it . I Am just joking about some of the other stuff i hope my american friends have a sense of humour .


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Rupert said:


> Because America got it right.
> 
> And we don't like the metric system.


HI Most here dont like metric . It was imposed on us when we joined the E U .


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## Rupert (Oct 2, 2009)

I do have a sense of humor, and I thought it was hilarious prior to invading Iraq in 2003 when the British Royal Marines were so desperate to trade with us for our folding knives because they weren't allowed to have them back home.


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## manta (Jul 2, 2010)

Rupert said:


> I do have a sense of humor, and I thought it was hilarious prior to invading Iraq in 2003 when the British Royal Marines were so desperate to trade with us for our folding knives because they weren't allowed to have them back home.


HI. You can have any knife you want in the uk . You can not carry them in a public place because of the knife crime . It would be seen as a offensive weapon, I am sure some states in america are the same .


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## crazy charlie (May 3, 2010)

It's an age old argument. I own all three of those calibers and wouldn't want to get hit by any of them.
Who brought the knives to this gunfight?


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## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

manta said:


> ... As for .40 when you have 9mm and .45 i dont see the need for it ...


It is not so much that the buying public needs the .40, but the arms manufacturers need it. It requires very little modification of a fire arm to convert a 9mm to .40 caliber, but to convert a 9mm to .45 caliber requires an almost entirely new pistol.

Even the venerable Beretta 92 is now available in .40, but you won't see it in .45 anytime in the future.

Also, from a marketing point of view the .40 allows a double stack more easily than a .45 and large capacity magazines sell handguns (whereas practice nearly obviates the need for the high capacity magazines).


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