# 4" 1911 with Short Grip



## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Other than Kimber, who makes a 1911 with a 4" barrel and a shorter grip?


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

Sig, STI, and Wilson Combat immediately come to mind. I'm sure there are others.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Todd said:


> Sig, STI, and Wilson Combat immediately come to mind. I'm sure there are others.


Thanks. Wasn't having any luck searching the Internet for some reason. I'm thinking that Springfield doesn't, correct?

Even if it doesn't say explicitly, if they are showing a 7+1 capacity, it should be the officers grip, right?


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Dan Wesson would be my choice.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

jdeere9750 said:


> Thanks. Wasn't having any luck searching the Internet for some reason. I'm thinking that Springfield doesn't, correct?
> 
> Even if it doesn't say explicitly, if they are showing a 7+1 capacity, it should be the officers grip, right?


Springfield doesn't have a 4" with compact grip. Correct, 7+1 is for the Officers framed pistols.

The 4" with compact grip is commonly referred to as a CCO or "Concealed Carry Officers", Kimber calls them the "Compact" model.

Les Baer has the Stinger, as mentioned Dan Wesson has the CCO, Nighthawk has the T3, The STI model mentioned above is the Guardian


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

VAMarine said:


> Springfield doesn't have a 4" with compact grip. Correct, 7+1 is for the Officers framed pistols.
> 
> The 4" with compact grip is commonly referred to as a CCO or "Concealed Carry Officers", Kimber calls them the "Compact" model.
> 
> Les Baer has the Stinger, as mentioned Dan Wesson has the CCO, Nighthawk has the T3, The STI model mentioned above is the Guardian


Just under $2k for the Baer SS Stinger??? I would have thought it would have been in the upper $2k's with the Wilsons, Browns, and Nighthawks. I'm going to have to add that to my "potentials" list!

You have so much more to teach me.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Todd said:


> Just under $2k for the Baer SS Stinger??? I would have thought it would have been in the upper $2k's with the Wilsons, Browns, and Nighthawks. I'm going to have to add that to my "potentials" list!
> 
> You have so much more to teach me.


The Baers typically come in under this mentioned in price, but the big drawback to them is that they are true blued guns and blued guns don't hold up well for carry, particularly in high humidity areas. The other guns cost more but have a more durable finish.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Also, some Baers do have more durable finishes and those can be applied to other Baers etc but it will be a special order and cost more.

The SRP and Super Tac are two of two of the guns with a more robust finish.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Todd said:


> You have so much more to teach me.


Yeah, me too.

I can't pay that much for a Nighthawk, I think I'd rather have a Sig than a STI since they are similarly priced (let me know if you guys strongly disagree), and I don't want another Kimber.

So, that leaves me with a Sig Compact ($1,142), Dan Wesson CCO ($1,558), and Les Baer Stinger ($1,995). What's the main differences between them?

Edited to add: Didn't see your above responses until after posting this.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

jdeere9750 said:


> Yeah, me too.
> 
> I can't pay that much for a Nighthawk, I think I'd rather have a Sig than a STI since they are similarly priced (let me know if you guys strongly disagree), and I don't want another Kimber.
> 
> ...


Well....

The Sigs are well equipped guns, but if they have the Sig profiles slides thee can be some holster fit issues. The rear edge of the grip frame, at the bottom of the main spring housing on every Sig 1911 I've ever held has been Sharp making the gun uncomfortable just to grip tightly.

As noted, the Hard pistols are blued and can be problematic where corosion issues need to be taken into account. I sweat like crazy in the summer so traditionally blued guns are a no-go for me.

The finish on the Site is pretty good.

The CCO from Dan Season is probably the best of the bunch going down the whole laundry list of features and attributes of these models. The fit and finish is great, the rear edge is slightly rounded, the guns are well equipped parts wise.

They cost a little more but in the class of pistols were talking about I'd say its worth it.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> Well....
> 
> The Sigs are well equipped guns, but if they have the Sig profiles slides thee can be some holster fit issues. The rear edge of the grip frame, at the bottom of the main spring housing on every Sig 1911 I've ever held has been Sharp making the gun uncomfortable just to grip tightly.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I was looking for. Concise and to the point. The blued guns definitely aren't good for me, because I sweat something fierce and I don't take the best of care of the outside of my guns. I need stainless. I assume that "Site" should really be Sigs, meaning the finish on them is pretty good. Correct?

I'm going to try to get up to the gun store and handle the Sig, if they've got one. I'll see how it feels, and if the sharp corner is a problem for me as well. I'm just debating if the extra money for the Dan Wesson is worth it (to me.) Holster fit on the Sig isn't a big problem, because I can buy a few holsters for the extra cost of the Dan Wesson, if I decide to go that route. Also, I think I like the look of the Sig better, but looks shouldn't matter (that's judging by the one picture on the Dan Wesson website). I'd like to get one in my hand to compare the two.

I know the Dan Wesson will be money well spent. Maybe I just need to start squirreling back some more nuts and get the Wesson.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Yes, stupid Auto-Correct...Site = Sig...

As for the Dan Wessons, if you shop around you can find "blemished" models for under $1300, from most of the reports on DW blemished guns, you'd have to look really hard to find the blemish. As it's a carry gun you're going to get some wear and tear eventually etc.

It's not a bad route to take IMHO, but then again I buy most of my guns gently used. :mrgreen:


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> Yes, stupid Auto-Correct...Site = Sig...
> 
> As for the Dan Wessons, if you shop around you can find "blemished" models for under $1300, from most of the reports on DW blemished guns, you'd have to look really hard to find the blemish. As it's a carry gun you're going to get some wear and tear eventually etc.
> 
> It's not a bad route to take IMHO, but then again I buy most of my guns gently used. :mrgreen:


Looks like the going rate for a NIB is $1,377. Blems seem to be going for about $1,250. I'm surprised there wasn't a bigger difference in the two. Guess that tells a little about the blemishes. I reckon I need to keep saving if I'm traveling down the Dan Wesson road.

I sure do appreciate the wisdom and time spent replying to my questions.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

jdeere9750 said:


> Looks like the going rate for a NIB is $1,377. Blems seem to be going for about $1,250. I'm surprised there wasn't a bigger difference in the two. Guess that tells a little about the blemishes. I reckon I need to keep saving if I'm traveling down the Dan Wesson road.
> 
> I sure do appreciate the wisdom and time spent replying to my questions.


You're welcome.

There's one other option I forgot about.

S&W has a "CCO" sized gun, the S&W 1911 108310











S&W SW1911ES (108310) @ GunsAmerica

It's out of stock @ Buds, but last price was $937

Here's one on GunBroker for $895


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Yet another fine choice. Seems like the S&W and the Sig are going to be darn near the same gun. Priced about the same, external extractors, stainless, lifetime warranty, etc. Sig has night sights. S&W is made in USA, though, which means something to me. 

I know your vote was for the DW, but what tips the scale for you spend $400-$500 more for the DW over the other two?


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

jdeere9750 said:


> I know your vote was for the DW, but what tips the scale for you spend $400-$500 more for the DW over the other two?


VAMarine is a 1911 "parvenu". I was going to get this until he talked me out of it and made me spend more $$$$. :anim_lol:


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

jdeere9750 said:


> Yet another fine choice. Seems like the S&W and the Sig are going to be darn near the same gun. Priced about the same, external extractors, stainless, lifetime warranty, etc. Sig has night sights. S&W is made in USA, though, which means something to me.
> 
> I know your vote was for the DW, but what tips the scale for you spend $400-$500 more for the DW over the other two?


Ceramic coating, better overall build quality, zero MIM parts. Both the Sig and Dan Wesson 1911s are made in the US, the Sig in New Hampshire and the DW in New York, but the parent companies are foreign (Sig Sauer and CZ)


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Todd said:


> VAMarine is a 1911 "parvenu". I was going to get this hi point .45 until he talked me out of it and made me spend more $$$$. :anim_lol:


Man that's not even funny.:buttkick:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

VAMarine said:


> Man that's not even funny.:buttkick:


Come on now, look at this list of features: 
​







Polymer frame







Durable, attractive easy-grip finish







Last round lock open







Quick on-off thumb safety







Operations safety sheet







+P rated







Free extra rear peep sight







Free trigger lock







Lifetime warranty







100% American-made, parts and assembly

I still can't believe you twisted my arm into getting something else and made me pass up a free operations safety sheet!


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

jdeere9750 said:


> I know your vote was for the DW, but what tips the scale for you spend $400-$500 more for the DW over the other two?


In all seriousness, do what my friend here told me to do and if you can afford it, spend the extra money or else in a year or so, you're just going to be looking at another 1911. Now you still may have the 1911 bug and in a year be looking at another gun, but it will be an _addition_ to your collection and not a _replacement_.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Todd said:


> Come on now, look at this list of features:
> ​
> 
> 
> ...


Quote from their website:

"Just want to say I own the 9mm and 45. I am a retired Police Chief and know my guns. The 9mm C-9 is now my CCW gun in a Houston holster. The 45 is my night stand gun."
S-Heath, Seiverville,TN

How could you go wrong? This guy's a chief and "knows his guns."


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Houston Holster = Fobus knock-off...:watching:


If that's not carry combo from hell I don't know what is.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Todd said:


> In all seriousness, do what my friend here told me to do and if you can afford it, spend the extra money or else in a year or so, you're just going to be looking at another 1911. Now you still may have the 1911 bug and in a year be looking at another gun, but it will be an _addition_ to your collection and not a _replacement_.


Yeah, I know your both right. That's kinda the position that I'm in now. It's just hard to part with the money, but I know I'll regret it down the road if I don't. Sounds like I need to get back to work instead of being on here. 

Thanks again, guys.


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

jdeere9750 said:


> "Just want to say I own the 9mm and 45. I am a retired Police Chief and know my guns. The 9mm C-9 is now my CCW gun in a Houston holster. The 45 is my night stand gun."
> S-Heath, Seiverville,TN
> 
> How could you go wrong? This guy's a chief and "knows his guns."


I saw that one and did, literally, LOL. :anim_lol:


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## Todd (Jul 3, 2006)

VAMarine said:


> If that's not carry combo from hell I don't know what is.


:anim_lol::anim_lol::anim_lol:


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## rolandrock (Sep 21, 2012)

I've been shooting a Sig Traditional Compact for a couple months now. My first non-Colt 1911.
I gotta say. it wasn't love at first sight but it was pretty close. A couple of workbench tweeks later, I really, REALLY like this thing.
It's been utterly reliable from shot 1 with everything put through it and that includes some 20 year old junk and some old SWC IPSC loads.

Fit an finish are there, no sharp edges on the mainspring housing. No squared off frame top to screw up holster buying.
All stainless, night sights, plenty accurate. 

It has some MIM internals which I gather most gunners find less than desirable. I don't really have much knowledge of the process. 
I assume it's some sort of powdered metal technology which if you spend any time with knife guys is an obsession with them and a huge +.

In any case, I bet I could change out those parts for $20 or so. I think I got the gun into my holster new for $860 or so. Less than $875...

I'm 100% happy with it now which, kinda surprises me.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

VAMarine said:


> Dan Wesson would be my choice.


Well...three months later, here it is. My iPhone camera doesn't do it justice. I'm excited.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

jdeere9750 said:


> Well...three months later, here it is. My iPhone camera doesn't do it justice. I'm excited.


Very cool, can't wait to hear more about it! Congrats!


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## rolandrock (Sep 21, 2012)

jdeere9750 said:


> lifetime warranty, etc.


I'd just like to point out that as far as S&W is concerned "lifetime" means 20 years.

I found that out a couple of months ago when my almost never fired 669 developed an issue with the safety.

I have no idea how Sig defines lifetime.


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## Waldo Pepper (Aug 11, 2007)

I have owned a couple officers 1911's in 45ACP but between reliability with the big 45 round and weight I walked away twice, finally got a Sig clone of Mustang and it was 100% reliable unlike the one Colt Mustang I had 20 years ago. When the Sig 938 came out I traded up to the 9mm and the gun has every option needed including night sights and is 100% reliable still almost 9 months later. And the thing still fits the pocket holster I had for the 380 model.


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## jdeere9750 (Nov 28, 2008)

Waldo Pepper said:


> I have owned a couple officers 1911's in 45ACP but between reliability with the big 45 round and weight I walked away twice, finally got a Sig clone of Mustang and it was 100% reliable unlike the one Colt Mustang I had 20 years ago. When the Sig 938 came out I traded up to the 9mm and the gun has every option needed including night sights and is 100% reliable still almost 9 months later. And the thing still fits the pocket holster I had for the 380 model.


Reliability was one of the reasons I went with the commander length slide. That, and my accuracy is greatly improved with a longer slide.


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