# New AZ CCW bills



## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

Proposed legislation would make Arizona the third state in the nation to allow adults to carry concealed guns without permits. Arizona Senate Bill 1102 and House Bill 2347 aim to eliminate the requirement for concealed-carry weapon permits for U.S. citizens 21 and older. 

Arizona already allows open carry without a permit and does issue concealed carry permits upon completion of an approved CCW course and background checks. These bills (which are worded identically) would do away with the CCW permit and allow any US citizen 21 years old to carry concealed (provided they can legally purchase a gun).

There is also some wording in the bills regarding law enforcement. It would now require individuals carrying a concealed gun to notify a law-enforcement officer that they are carrying if they are pulled over for a traffic stop. It also would allow the officer to take temporary custody of the gun during a stop.

Good or bad???

Discuss...


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## Hiram25 (Feb 22, 2010)

I live in Delaware, if I read your post correctly, this would allow me to cc in Arizona, is this correct?

If this is so, it's a step in the right direction.

I'm a retired LEO, and the last thing I would want would be to take someone's weapon while on a traffic stop. If they advised me they had a weapon, and the law stated they could have it, I would stick to the business of the traffic stop, and keep an eye on them while doing so.:smt1099


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## gmaske (Jan 7, 2008)

Hiram25 said:


> I live in Delaware, if I read your post correctly, this would allow me to cc in Arizona, is this correct?
> 
> If this is so, it's a step in the right direction.
> 
> I'm a retired LEO, and the last thing I would want would be to take someone's weapon while on a traffic stop. If they advised me they had a weapon, and the law stated they could have it, I would stick to the business of the traffic stop, and keep an eye on them while doing so.:smt1099


 I'm with you on this. If you ain't fooling with it there isn't any chance of an oops! I like the idea behind the law.


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## SaltyDog (Jan 1, 2009)

Sounds great to me. A definite move in the right direction. That gets rid of the bureaucracy of having to get a permit or renewing it, paying the Sheriff for another background check, and worrying about reciprocity.

Another positive would be reduced NGZ's. Think about it - tourists carrying concealed, are businesses going to hang signs and keep them away? I think not.

Like Hiram25 I do not have a problem with notifying if approached by a LEO. It is currently the law here in Ohio.
Good for the LEO - good for me. No surprises. 

However I do not like the wording about the LEO being able to take custody of the weapon during a stop. YES - if he were making an arrest or detaining - NO - if a simple traffic stop or other non violent misdemeanor.


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## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

Hiram25 said:


> I'm a retired LEO, and the last thing I would want would be to take someone's weapon while on a traffic stop. If they advised me they had a weapon, and the law stated they could have it, I would stick to the business of the traffic stop, and keep an eye on them while doing so.:smt1099


Interesting...it was the LE community that fought to get that bit added to the bill. Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police originally opposed the bill. After this bit of wording was added, they dropped thier opposition.

All in all, I like the new law...I'm all for the right to carry, but I also kinda like the way the law currently is as well...If you want to carry concealed, you can...but you need to go through the approved class. I've seen my fair share of poor shooters out there...It's a tad bit unsettling knowing that anyone can buy a gun and carry it around, regardless of the fact that they may not know how to use it very well.

I'm also bitter about the fact that I had to pay $50 for the course and then pay Arizona DPS $60 for the CCW permit...and now it may be unnescessary. They should give me my money back...lol

Also, the question of reciprocity comes into play...Currently, (roughly) 33 states honor my AZ CCW permit. If AZ no longer requires a permit, what does that mean for other states I might travel to? I assume it would be as if I didn't even have one anymore. Great for people visiting AZ...not so great for us in AZ visiting other states.


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## Ungerc (Mar 8, 2010)

I too have a AZ CCW. Wonder what would happen if I carry CCW in the states that honor my Az CCW. I would have no card to show. Anyone know the answer?


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## Gunners_Mate (Feb 17, 2010)

glad to see such legislation move through the state I was born in.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

slave2theaxe said:


> Also, the question of reciprocity comes into play...Currently, (roughly) 33 states honor my AZ CCW permit. If AZ no longer requires a permit, what does that mean for other states I might travel to? I assume it would be as if I didn't even have one anymore. Great for people visiting AZ...not so great for us in AZ visiting other states.


Does this bill do away with the permit? or does it just make it legal to carry without one?

Alaska has a similar law (concealed without a permit) but they also still have their permit, so permit holders can still travel and carry in reciprocal States.


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## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

bruce333 said:


> Does this bill do away with the permit? or does it just make it legal to carry without one?
> 
> Alaska has a similar law (concealed without a permit) but they also still have their permit, so permit holders can still travel and carry in reciprocal States.


Now that you mention it...I believe the wording of the bill just does away with the penalty for carrying WITHOUT a permit...not doing away with the permit itself. I guess we'll see.


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## bruce333 (Sep 1, 2006)

Looks like it is heading to the Governor for signature.

http://azcdl.capwiz.com/azcdl/issues/alert/?alertid=14907736


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## cougartex (Jan 2, 2010)

Great. :smt023


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

slave2theaxe said:


> Interesting...it was the LE community that fought to get that bit added to the bill. Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police originally opposed the bill. After this bit of wording was added, they dropped thier opposition.


This and Hiram25's response don't really surprise me. From what I've heard, a lot of "beat cops" approve of CC, while the chiefs and higher ups tend to be more political and opposed to it. The chief of university police here in Lexington is very, very anti-gun, while a lot of other police officers I've met don't have a problem with CC.

KG


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

The CWP is not going away in Arizona. It will still be required for carry in an establishment selling alcoholic drinks for on premises consumption.

Existing CWP training requirements do not delve beyond the surface of gun handling and safety. It is more oriented towards legal ramifications. If you can put 70% of 10 shots, 5 up close and 5 at 10 yards, in a chest size target you know enough about gun handling to obtain the permit.

Most 21 and older individuals within Arizona borders have the right to carry weapons openly without training of any kind. Covering them with a thin shirt really doesn't alter things much other than perception.

The bad guys are already carrying without permit so lets give the good guy a break.

I have and will maintain a CWP but am hoping it will be signed without delay.

tumbleweed


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## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

Yeah...I had originally thought the bill was doing away with the permit, which upset me a bit...but the more I look into it, the permit is still there and valid, the bill just does away with the penalties for carrying concealed without a permit.

I didn't want the permit to go away for reasons I stated earlier (reciprocity and such), but I'm still torn on this one.

I still think this bill will getting some people into legal trouble because they will conceal carry without good knowledge of the laws and end up making a stupid decision. Most people aren't going to take the time to read the laws for themselves if they don't have to take the class.

It still amazes me how much some people THINK they know about concealed carry and justification laws, but are HORRIBLY mistaken.


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

slave2theaxe said:


> Yeah...I had originally thought the bill was doing away with the permit, which upset me a bit...but the more I look into it, the permit is still there and valid, the bill just does away with the penalties for carrying concealed without a permit.
> 
> I didn't want the permit to go away for reasons I stated earlier (reciprocity and such), but I'm still torn on this one.
> 
> ...


Once the law is in force, If they decide to use the gun there is no difference legally whether they are CC or OC. Murder is murder however you carry just as self defense is self defense no matter the carry method.

Arizonans have been carrying openly for longer than I have been alive (a long time) and we don't have to clean the blood out of the bar ditch every day.
There will be a few scare stories then all will go back to normal except the BG's will no longer know how many around them are packing. At present it is either visible or a very low percentage. That I hope will change.


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## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

TOF said:


> Once the law is in force, If they decide to use the gun there is no difference legally whether they are CC or OC. Murder is murder however you carry just as self defense is self defense no matter the carry method.


I see what you are getting at with the open carry vs. concealed carry and the laws being the same as far as pulling it out and using it, but I know quite a few people that own guns that won't open carry for whatever reason, but don't have a CCW either because they don't want to have to pay for the class/permit. More than a few of them have stated that if this law is passed, they WILL carry concealed. Some of these people are the same ones that are horribly misinformed as to what the laws say about what they can and can't do with it...These are the people I fear will get themselves into trouble.

The people that open carry anyway, I would hope, are at least somewhat intelligent and informed (though not always the case.) Case in point, the idiot the other day in El Mirage, that pulled out his gun several times inside of Walmart and kept playing with it until it went off...Luckily no one was hurt


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## TOF (Sep 7, 2006)

I am convinced the Walmart thing was setup by someone opposed to Constitutional Carry. The gun actually going off was most likely a mistake on the part of the Idiot but the drawing and waving the gun around was intended to draw opposition to the Governor signing. IMHO


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## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

The bill was just signed by the governor today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap_on_re_us/us_xgr_concealed_weapons_arizona

Congrats to Arizona on being the third state to allow concealed carry without a permit. :smt023

KG


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## slave2theaxe (Mar 5, 2010)

Just don't start packing without a permit just yet...the bill wont go into effect until August/September timeframe...90 dadys after legislature adjourns for this session.


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## Mdnitedrftr (Aug 10, 2006)

:smt041 Wooo! One for the good guys!


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