# M885 gone?



## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

I tried to find some 62gr 5.56 ammo M885 ammo and they are all sold out everywhere. Do you think ATF will go through with this next month and ban common use AR15 ammo? This is just getting out of hand.


----------



## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Link posted in another thread... some left, but price is climbing fast.


----------



## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

Yea I just bought 2000 rds today my my it cost me an arm and leg.


----------



## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

What did you pay per round? I've seen $0.50 to $0.95 already... I imagine it will go up to well over several dollars if it is indeed to be banned forever. 

Personally, I don't use it anyway... and most duty .223/5.56 will defeat soft body armor anyway... so why is this round special? Isn't that the reason for banning it?


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

It gives a slight increase in hard-barrier penetration, that's about it. The ATF seems to indicate their recent action is somehow linked to the proliferation of AR-style pistols, but I think that's bunk; those guns have been around for years, and ANY .223 or 5.56mm FMJ/ball round (and most expanding bullet loads, too) will go through a soft Kevlar pistol-rated vest (the type that cops wear) when fired from ANY gun, rifle or pistol, in those calibers. M855/SS109-style ammo had a very specific exemption from the Armor Piercing (AP) legislation definition, which was required to get the law passed; without that exemption, it would have failed to become law. As I understand it, now the ATF is pulling the exemption administratively, saying this ammo should be subjected to the same bullet construction definition and/or actual penetration testing as all other pistol rounds that are labeled as AP. It's BS, and I hope they get bench-slapped, big time, for trying to pull this crap.

I normally only keep a couple hundred rounds of it on-hand, as some of my guns shoot it well, but some do not. I picked up a few more boxes at Walmart, normal price (47 cents a round). Two local gun shops are sold out of it, but they didn't have all that much on-hand to begin with. Still quite a bit of it for sale at the local farm store (Mills Fleet Farm) at a bit higher price than Walmart, and the local Gander Mountain still had a pile of it (at normal-for-Gander-Mountain prices, which is to say, retail plus about 20-30%).

It'll probably all be gone by the weekend, if not before.


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't even use FMJ to begin with, so it doesn't bother me a bit.


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> I don't even use FMJ to begin with, so it doesn't bother me a bit.


It should, because if they get this to stick, they can outlaw your SP/HP/plastic-tip .223 ammo just as easily.

As I said above, ANY .223 or 5.56mm ammo will go through a soft bullet-resistant vest when fired from a rifle or pistol, and if it will, they can use the same standard to ban it.


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

Possibly, although I don't see that coming soon.


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Yeah, no one saw THIS reversal coming, either. 

I assume from your attitude that you also aren't bothered enough to do anything to help your fellow gun owners, the ones that will be affected by this change. Do you know why the anti-gun folks play the divide-and-conquer card every chance they get? Because they can depend on people like you, gun owners who aren't personally affected by a certain law or ruling, to sit on the sidelines and watch, instead of standing united with other gun owners and pushing back. By pushing back, even if ultimately unsuccessful, there is less of a chance of another similar move in the future, which WOULD affect you. By dividing the huge pie of nationwide gun owners into tiny slices of specialty niches, they can whittle away at our rights (and our numbers) until the remaining group is small enough to finally stomp into the ground, once and for all.

A person can do whatever they want, of course; it's still a free country (or so I'm told). But I wouldn't expect bragging about how a restrictive change to an administrative ruling doesn't affect you personally and doesn't bother you is going to get you anything but contempt on a gun forum.

/rant off

(Disclaimer: the above is my personal opinion, and does not in any way reflect the opinion(s) of the owners/operators of this site)


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

I signed the deal trying to keep it around. But it still doesn't bother me this is done. What do we need armor piercing rounds for anyway, in all honesty? I've never seen a coyote with a bullet proof vest.


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> I signed the deal trying to keep it around. But it still doesn't bother me this is done. What do we need armor piercing rounds for anyway, in all honesty? I've never seen a coyote with a bullet proof vest.


So, to you, the Second Amendment is only about hunting?


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

It's not about hunting a all. It's about the right to own firearms. But I don't hunt humans.


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> It's not about hunting a all. It's about the right to own firearms. But I don't hunt humans.


And yet, you go right back to the hunting thing again.

M855 ammo was designed to have slightly bettere penetration than other military rifle ammunition, without requiring any expensive changes to the military rifle itself. It is not "armor piercing" in any true sense of the words, when you compare it to .30 caliber or .50 caliber AP rounds. It shoots better in many AR-style rifles and carbines that have fast-twist barrels (like the 1 in 7" twist of my Colt), and for a long time, it was available at far lower prices (as surplus) than any other heavy/long bullet ammo for fast-twist rifles.

The ATF is misusing a clause in the legal definition of "Armor Piercing" to reclassify it as Armor Piercing pistol ammo, simply because AR pistols are becoming more and more common. They have already used this type of ruling to reclassify steel-core 7.62x39mm ammo, and more recently, 5.45mm surplus ammo, as AP Pistol ammo, and stopped all importation of this cheap, but only-made-overseas ammo. This is their first attempt to use this clause to ban further sales/production-for-civilian-sales of a DOMESTIC MADE type/caliber of ammunition, and if their basic reasoning is allowed to stand (any caliber than can be used in a multi-shot handgun that will penetrate a LEO soft vest can be banned), then your hunting rifle ammo will be next on the list, because ALL centerfire rifle ammo can penetrate a soft pistol-bullet-only rated vest. I spent some time in my gun book library last night, and came up with quite a list of multi-shot handguns in standard bottleneck rifle calibers. That puts almost EVERY COMMON RIFLE CALIBER on the list of ammo that can be banned, if they can get this BS to stick and use it as a precedent.


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

I had never looked at it that way it does she'd a new light on the matter.


----------



## acepilot (Dec 16, 2012)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> I signed the deal trying to keep it around. But it still doesn't bother me this is done. What do we need armor piercing rounds for anyway, in all honesty? I've never seen a coyote with a bullet proof vest.


You may need it when the Nazi SS comes and kicks in your door because they have it on good authority that you own guns and they're there to collect them up...


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

if that came to it, honestly the first gun I would reach for would be my 44 mag Lever action. I'm a classic gun kinda guy, and can't stand and of the modern type rifle. ARs and AKs being at the top of my nope list.


----------



## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

TAPnRACK said:


> What did you pay per round? I've seen $0.50 to $0.95 already... I imagine it will go up to well over several dollars if it is indeed to be banned forever.
> 
> Personally, I don't use it anyway... and most duty .223/5.56 will defeat soft body armor anyway... so why is this round special? Isn't that the reason for banning it?


On average I paid .57 per rd. I just bought a can of 720 ZQ ammo for $457. I think the ZQ is good ammo but it cost more to buy in bulk than individual boxes. I have seen 1 box go for $21 for 30 rds but I paid about $12 for 30 at Wal Mart when I can get them. I just ordered another 480 rds for .53 a rd. I have spent all I can on this ammo. If it goes up I may get rid of some it as I spent too much this month. I saw one sight go for $1.21 a rd so the price will rise on Mar 16th if they ban them and I figure they will because there is no oversight on them. I wrote the Senator in my state but I don't have high hopes in their success. This round is great for hog hunting so it does have a sporting purpose but ATF don't care.


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

I can reload it for about 10 cent with mt 62gn soft points


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> I can reload it for about 10 cent with mt 62gn soft points


Those will work fine for thin-skinned medium game animals, but the SPs will not get close to the same penetration in hard barriers, or probably even most soft/squishy targets (depending largely on whether or not the bullet begins to tumble; if it stays point-forward, it will go pretty deep).


----------



## Sierra_Hunter (Feb 17, 2015)

About the only thing I ever shot with my 223 was coyotes and other small varmints. If I need to knock through something hard I'll reach for my 45/70


----------



## shootbrownelk (May 18, 2014)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> I signed the deal trying to keep it around. But it still doesn't bother me this is done. What do we need armor piercing rounds for anyway, in all honesty? I've never seen a coyote with a bullet proof vest.


 As you probably already know, just about any hunting round will penetrate a vest. What if after they get the power to ban this ONE certain round, they decide your Hornady GMX, your Nosler E-Tip or your Barnes X bullets penetrate a vest just as easily and do more damage? I see this as a perfect example of "The Camel's nose under the tent". They won't have to try to take our guns. There are one hell of a lot more folks who buy loaded ammunition than those who reload. Think about it.


----------



## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

Sierra_Hunter said:


> About the only thing I ever shot with my 223 was coyotes and other small varmints. If I need to knock through something hard I'll reach for my 45/70


Reminds me of a sick joke a cop friend told me a while ago.

"The good news: Engineers have finally designed a soft, thin, comfortable bulletproof vest that can stop a .50 BMG round!"

"The bad news: it takes 4 people to pull the vest out of your body cavity after it stops the bullet..."


----------



## shaolin (Dec 31, 2012)

What are some better loads for SD or Coyote hunting


----------

