# Did i make a mistake??????



## wildcatbrownhound

:smt102I purchased a THUNDER .380; Went to fire it and it jammed just about every 2 to 4 rounds. With the mag. full it jammed every time. After clearing it 1 or 2 times it fired 3 to 4 rounds ok. Reload and here we go again. When it jammed, you could look in the almost closed chamber and see the round in there crooked. You really had to pull pretty hard to get the slide to go back to get the round out. It also left a mark on the side of the unfired round about 1/8 inch back on the jacket. I tried to get a box through it and after about 40 rounds I got frustrated and nervous. I also tried it with another mag. and nothing changed. It also fail to fire. (firing pin mark on unfired cartridge) Was not real sure at this point it would not blow up in my face. Dealer says this happens to all brands from time to time. He is going to send it back to the factory. Is this normal or a isolated problem? I thought they fired these guns enough to not let them out of the factory with this kind of problems. Is BERSA capable of fixing this gun correctly? ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. THANKS:smt102


----------



## kev74

Here are the first few things that come to mind

- Did you clean and lube the gun according to the manufacturers recomendations before you shot it?

- Did you try more than 1 type of ammo before you gave the gun back?

- What kind of ammo were you using?

If it wasn't cleaned and lubed before you shot it, that could be the reason for your malfunctions. The other thing that sounds odd is that you said the primers on rounds that didn't fire had a good skrike mark from the firing pin. That would lead me to believe the ammo you were using wasn't so good. 

It sounds like the shop is willing to help you out a bit by sending it back for you. I would stay positive until you have reason to worry. I'm sure the factory is going to give your gun a pretty good going-over and will test fire it before they send it back.

Be sure to post back when this gets resolved! :watching:


----------



## DevilsJohnson

Bersa guns are really tight when they are new. I had one and I ended up leaving the slide locked back for about a week. After that I broke it down and cleaned and got all that weak oil that they are shipped with and lubed with my normal gun lube. I also found that at least with mine it did not like anything but ball ammo and it seemed to like it to be a little hot. I had a box of east European ammo that it worked perfect with. While other brands would cause stovepipes.


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

kev74 said:


> Here are the first few things that come to mind
> 
> - Did you clean and lube the gun according to the manufacturers recomendations before you shot it?
> 
> - Did you try more than 1 type of ammo before you gave the gun back?
> 
> - What kind of ammo were you using?
> 
> If it wasn't cleaned and lubed before you shot it, that could be the reason for your malfunctions. The other thing that sounds odd is that you said the primers on rounds that didn't fire had a good skrike mark from the firing pin. That would lead me to believe the ammo you were using wasn't so good.
> 
> It sounds like the shop is willing to help you out a bit by sending it back for you. I would stay positive until you have reason to worry. I'm sure the factory is going to give your gun a pretty good going-over and will test fire it before they send it back.
> 
> Be sure to post back when this gets resolved! :watching:


Did I clean and lube?? No it was a brand new gun.
What kind of ammo?? Remington and Hornady.
I have and have fired several guns through the years and I have never seen anything like this. When I get it back I will let you all know what happened. THANKS


----------



## Todd

wildcatbrownhound said:


> Did I clean and lube?? No it was a brand new gun.


That is the problem, most likely. Brand new guns come coated in a preservative that needs to be removed before you fire it. Even though it's new, you need to field strip the gun and get that junk off of it or else it can cause feeding and firing issues.


----------



## Black Metal

wildcatbrownhound said:


> Did I clean and lube?? No it was a brand new gun.
> What kind of ammo?? Remington and Hornady.
> I have and have fired several guns through the years and I have never seen anything like this. When I get it back I will let you all know what happened. THANKS





Drew_Rami_P said:


> I think alot of the people who purchase Bersa firearms tend to be new to guns and are attracted to the low price, Many people who are new to guns don't understand how to break them in, clean, and maintain them properly all of which will lead to reliability issues. My wife has a .380cc and she loves it. We would definitly buy Bersa again.


First thing you should do why you buy a new gun is break it down and clean it. They ship in more of a grease than an oil. My guess is that this was probably the cause of your problems.


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

*Thinking out loud*

:mrgreen:I really thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your feedback on this thread. Anyone else, PLEASE come on in there. I dont know a lot about guns. I am learning thanks to you people.
There is one thing that I cant understand. "Everytime" I put 7 rounds in the mag.: if I shucked it or released the slide the # 1 round did not go all the way in. After clearing # 1 out # 2 may or may not go in as did # 1. iF # 2 went in and fired # 3 might not go in. After clearing # 3 whether it fired # 3 or not # 4 5 6 7 fired as fast as you cold pull the trigger. This leads me to think that perhaps the gun was not in need of cleaning that bad and the ammo was not defective????????? It seems it has a feed problem with a full mag. Why did it not jam # 4 5 6 7 ? It done the same with a Pro Mag mag. i purchased for a spare. 
The dealer said 4 to 6 weeks. I will let you all know what happens after I get it back and fire it. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD. AGAIN THANKS.:smt1099


----------



## Dsig1

wildcatbrownhound said:


> :mrgreen:I really thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your feedback on this thread. Anyone else, PLEASE come on in there. I dont know a lot about guns. I am learning thanks to you people.
> There is one thing that I cant understand. "Everytime" I put 7 rounds in the mag.: if I shucked it or released the slide the # 1 round did not go all the way in. After clearing # 1 out # 2 may or may not go in as did # 1. iF # 2 went in and fired # 3 might not go in. After clearing # 3 whether it fired # 3 or not # 4 5 6 7 fired as fast as you cold pull the trigger. This leads me to think that perhaps the gun was not in need of cleaning that bad and the ammo was not defective????????? It seems it has a feed problem with a full mag. Why did it not jam # 4 5 6 7 ? It done the same with a Pro Mag mag. i purchased for a spare.
> The dealer said 4 to 6 weeks. I will let you all know what happens after I get it back and fire it. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD. AGAIN THANKS.:smt1099


Another thing to check is the feed ramp. I've solved feeding problems on a few new guns simply by polishing the feed ramp with 1200 gritt sand paper, then some McGuires scratch polish. It has made a difference every time.


----------



## Atltech

wildcatbrownhound said:


> :smt102I purchased a THUNDER .380; Went to fire it and it jammed just about every 2 to 4 rounds. With the mag. full it jammed every time. After clearing it 1 or 2 times it fired 3 to 4 rounds ok. Reload and here we go again. When it jammed, you could look in the almost closed chamber and see the round in there crooked. You really had to pull pretty hard to get the slide to go back to get the round out. It also left a mark on the side of the unfired round about 1/8 inch back on the jacket. I tried to get a box through it and after about 40 rounds I got frustrated and nervous. I also tried it with another mag. and nothing changed. It also fail to fire. (firing pin mark on unfired cartridge) Was not real sure at this point it would not blow up in my face. Dealer says this happens to all brands from time to time. He is going to send it back to the factory. Is this normal or a isolated problem? I thought they fired these guns enough to not let them out of the factory with this kind of problems. Is BERSA capable of fixing this gun correctly? ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. THANKS:smt102


I also have a BT 380 Plus..15 roung mag..was a bit finiky at first but after 200-300 rounds it's now perfect.These guns seem to need a "break in" period before they settle down into normal operation.
My buddy has a Beretta 380 and had similar break in issues.
I have found most brands of ammo fire the same.
It is still the best semiauto for the money..light weight..deadly accurate...Yes,I will buy another Bersa..no problem.


----------



## Wandering Man

Other things to consider: 

Limp wristing.

Or you may have simply got the lemon out of the batch.

Sounds like you are good hands, though. Your dealer is willing to stick up for you with the factory, and the factory is willing to let it be sent in for repair.

My experience with Bersa so far has been that they are willing to stand behind their product.

The hard part will be in the waiting.

Sorry you got off to a rough start.

WM


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

*Update on mistake????????*

:watching:My dealer called Monday morning and said the gun was ok. He said he cleaned it and fired 3 mags through it and it was ok. I picked it up and took it to the range and shot 150 rounds and it jammed about every 12 to 15 rounds. It also didnt fire 3 times. (marks were on primer) When it jamms you can look where the fired round comes out and see the new round stuck in there crooked and the slide is not closed all the way. I took it back to the dealer and it jammed on him after 1 mag full and the 2nd round in the other mag. It also didnt fire once. End of story: I told him to send it to the factory. Im a little afraid of it now. I am just glad I have a good dealer. It comes with a Limited lifetime warranty. The ammo I used that was in every other mag full was; Speer Lawman, Remmington, Magtech, And Ultramax remanufactured. I just bought the latter to try to get some rounds through it. It done as well as the other. A friend shot 300 rounds of the Ultramx through his Bersa with out a glitch. I guess I will wait. He said it would be about 6 weeks.I hope the factory can do something. Thanks to all. :watching:


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

*Update on big,big,big mistake*

:smt076:smt076:smt076I got the 380 thunder back from the dealer Friday (2-20-09) The gun was repaired by Reynersons Gunsmith Service in Baton Rouge,La. He deburred the slide, Adjust safety, Installed new firing pin, Swage barrel throat to seat on ramp, test fired 14 rounds I dont know if this company is a certified Bersa repair shop or not. I hope not. The gun is worse now than before it was sent off. It is still jamming. It will only fire about every other round. Well guess what. My dealer gave me $250.00 credit on the piece of $--t and I got a Beretta 380 auto. Would any one reading this depend on this gun if the chips were down? It is what I should have done is the beginning. I will never give Bersa a good word as long as I live and will do all I can to stop anyone from buying one. This is what happens when you try to save money and settle for less you get LESS. Thanks to all of you who answered this thread. :smt076:smt076:smt076


----------



## 10Stopgun45

:smt102Wildcat,

The Bersa Thunder .380 is a good handgun. Did you ask someone at the range to shot the weapon to determine the same result you were getting? The jamming and FTF at the same time are probably related. Sounds like you have a limp wristing issue. Hope you have better luck with the Beretta.


----------



## kev74

Why didn't he send it back to the factory instead of to some half-assed gun smith? And why didn't he give you a refund instead of a credit if his guy couldn't make it right?

I'd be more pissed off at the local shop than I would at Bersa.


----------



## Ricardokid

I have the Beretta .380 nickel Cheetah and absolutely love it. I have fired about 500 rds. through it right out of the box with no ftf or fte. It's great for concealment and 13+1 ability. Good luck with your's. I like to pay a little more for a lot less aggravation.


----------



## tekhead1219

kev74 said:


> Why didn't he send it back to the factory instead of to some half-assed gun smith? And why didn't he give you a refund instead of a credit if his guy couldn't make it right?
> 
> I'd be more pissed off at the local shop than I would at Bersa.


Couldn't agree more Kev. I have a .380 Thunder and have had no issues with it at all. I have read that they get some lemons out every now and then, but, everyone I know that has one hasn't had any issues.


----------



## IndyRob

This is my Bersa 380 new, after a complete CLP cleaning, shot at 25 yards









I'm sorry you're having problems with yours, but don't give up on it. Send it to Royce @ Colorado Gunworks. He's a great Bersa factory authorized smith


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

10Stopgun45 said:


> :smt102Wildcat,
> 
> The Bersa Thunder .380 is a good handgun. Did you ask someone at the range to shot the weapon to determine the same result you were getting? The jamming and FTF at the same time are probably related. Sounds like you have a limp wristing issue. Hope you have better luck with the Beretta.


:watching:Two other people at the range said to take it back to the dealer. Another sais throw it in the trash. THANKS:watching:


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

kev74 said:


> Why didn't he send it back to the factory instead of to some half-assed gun smith? And why didn't he give you a refund instead of a credit if his guy couldn't make it right?
> 
> I'd be more pissed off at the local shop than I would at Bersa.


:watching:You are right; He should have sent it to the factory. He gave me full credit on the Beretta 84FS. If he had not done that I would not have bought the Beretta from him, and probally wont buy anything else from him anyway. Want to piss a man off? Throw the truth in his face. He didnt like it when I ask him if he would depend on the Bersa to defend his family. I have never had any respect for a man that would ask a man to do something he would not do. THANKS:watching:


----------



## wildcatbrownhound

Ricardokid said:


> I have the Beretta .380 nickel Cheetah and absolutely love it. I have fired about 500 rds. through it right out of the box with no ftf or fte. It's great for concealment and 13+1 ability. Good luck with your's. I like to pay a little more for a lot less aggravation.


:watching:I fired 450 rounds through the Beretta 84FS Friday and it didnt hiccup. Sometimes we learn the hard way. I just wanted a less expensive pistol to keep in the truck in case it gets stolen.Thanks:watching:


----------



## BigDaveP

Todd said:


> That is the problem, most likely. Brand new guns come coated in a preservative that needs to be removed before you fire it. Even though it's new, you need to field strip the gun and get that junk off of it or else it can cause feeding and firing issues.


My Bersa Firestorm .22 came with gunky sticky oil on it, undoubtedly to keep off corrosion in storage and shipping.. so did my new 9mm Thunder.. come to think of it, I've never taken a new gun out of the box and shot it.. always cleaned/lubed first..

Just seemed the right thing to do, what with the oil all over the place. Oil collects powder dirt, and that alone will make a semiauto grind to a halt.


----------



## DevilsJohnson

The thing with the thunder 380 is they are full of all kinds of gunk. The springs are really tight and they are a little finicky as to what ammo they use best. If you take them down and clean and re lube them well then for the first box or two run some hot ammo through them they tend to calm down a little.

Like most 380 weapons they are pretty small and that lends itself to more things you as the user can do wrong when firing them "limp wristing" is common in causing them to not function well as well as bigger man hands getting on things they don't need to.

The 380 can be a decent weapon for CD but with most of them there is an issue here and there. I personally think one is better off with a compact 9mm if the small gun is what the would be shooter wants most. They are built more solid and are a little bigger allowing for a more natural grip. A 380 is what people like my Dad would have called a belly gun or pocket pistol. The round has a good bit of snap for such a small round but I think that is mostly due to the compact size of the weapons that use it. A good grip it seems to me anyway is much more important with these weapons. I've fired many over the years and more often than not failures are caused by grip or the weapon just not liking the round that's in it.

Glad to hear your having better results wit the new one. Those Bersa's are pretty good but they need to be broken in with a little more patience it seems. They can be trusted though as well as any in their class once they are cleaned, lubed, and broken in properly. Also sometimes it takes getting a few different kinds of ammo before you'll find the round that works best. Mine did not like those flat point Winchester rounds but I had found an East European surplus ammo that worked real well. It was a round nose FMJ round that was a little hotter though too.


----------



## BigDaveP

yep, MFS is Hungarian


----------



## Freedom1911

wildcatbrownhound said:


> :smt102I purchased a THUNDER .380; Went to fire it and it jammed just about every 2 to 4 rounds. With the mag. full it jammed every time. After clearing it 1 or 2 times it fired 3 to 4 rounds ok. Reload and here we go again. When it jammed, you could look in the almost closed chamber and see the round in there crooked. You really had to pull pretty hard to get the slide to go back to get the round out. It also left a mark on the side of the unfired round about 1/8 inch back on the jacket. I tried to get a box through it and after about 40 rounds I got frustrated and nervous. I also tried it with another mag. and nothing changed. It also fail to fire. (firing pin mark on unfired cartridge) Was not real sure at this point it would not blow up in my face. Dealer says this happens to all brands from time to time. He is going to send it back to the factory. Is this normal or a isolated problem? I thought they fired these guns enough to not let them out of the factory with this kind of problems. Is BERSA capable of fixing this gun correctly? ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. THANKS:smt102


You may have this already taken care of, I have not read through this thread for a few days.
But the problem sounds like the spring on the mag is to tight.
Many semi autos have feed problems right off the bat because the mag spring tension is to tight. The fix for this is to fill the mag to capacity and let it sit for about a week.
One word of warning about mags. ProMag after market magazines for Bersa handguns are very unreliable. Some of the mags that ProMag produce are fine. Like the mags I purchased for my Walther P99. They work perfectly so far. But the ProMag track record with their Bersa mags is not good. If you want equipment that is going to work properly in your gun. Be sure to buy Bersa factory magazines.
Just my two cents.
Also if your gun comes back and is still less than perfect. Look up ColoradoGunWorks.

http://www.coloradogunworks.com/

C. Royce Honeycutt
Master Gunsmith
Bersa Warranty Service Center
toll free number 1-866-210-4867

This is one of the best Bersa Warranty shops around. 
Before you think about giving up on it if it is not perfect, Give Royce a chance to make the gun right.

Good luck.


----------



## AZ 9mm/45

Never polish the feed ramp on the 380...it is alm. and you will ruin it. Go to the FAQ on the bersatalkforum. They have all the answers that you asking about.


----------



## recoilguy

Freedom1911 said:


> Many semi autos have feed problems right off the bat because the mag spring tension is to tight. The fix for this is to fill the mag to capacity and let it sit for about a week.
> Good luck.


Please explain the physics or metalurgy of this to me.

Leaving a mag loaded "loads" a spring,springs are made to be loaded. I am under the metalurgical impression that cycling a spring is how one is weakened. That putting a load on a spring will have lttle or even no effect on it even if left loaded for years. You seem to speak with a vast amount of authority I would like to know how I could have been so mis-informed for so long. It is my impresion that to loosed a spring you need to load.....unload......load........ unload and repeat.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I may have been doing this incorrectly for some time now.

RCG


----------



## guard dog

As 1911 explained the problem might be that the mag spring is still too stiff. A way to test this problem is to
put only a couple of bullets in the new magazine and shoot the gun. If it fires without a problem reload the
mag with as many bullets as it's suppose to hold and fire it again. If it jams or FTE you know what the 
problem is. I just witnessed the same problem at the range. The guy next to me was having all kinds of problems with his new Glock 17. As soon as he removed the top three rounds the jamming problem was solved.

This is a guess. If it was me I would have sent it back to the factory. That the point of a lifetime warranty.


----------



## trailblazer

*


wildcatbrownhound said:



Did I clean and lube?? No it was a brand new gun.
What kind of ammo?? Remington and Hornady.
I have and have fired several guns through the years and I have never seen anything like this. When I get it back I will let you all know what happened. THANKS

Click to expand...

a note on bersas:
1...all bersas need to be cleaned & properly lubricated before use....that goo that is on there is a preservative, not a lubricant. the gun is shipped that way to protect it.

2...don't try any SD ammo until you have 300-400 rounds of ball ammo down range.

3..WWB is more flat nosed than some other ball ammo & can cause feed problems initially.

4...if the gun has a nickel finish, DO NOT use anything that contains amonia such as hoppe's 9.

5...after market Pro-Mags are not recommended with a bersa, they are very unreliable.

6...wealth of info at.
http://www.bersachat.com/forums/forum.php.

thanx & happy shooting
trailblazer
*


----------



## trailblazer

recoilguy said:


> Please explain the physics or metalurgy of this to me.
> 
> Leaving a mag loaded "loads" a spring,springs are made to be loaded. I am under the metalurgical impression that cycling a spring is how one is weakened. That putting a load on a spring will have lttle or even no effect on it even if left loaded for years. You seem to speak with a vast amount of authority I would like to know how I could have been so mis-informed for so long. It is my impresion that to loosed a spring you need to load.....unload......load........ unload and repeat.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. I may have been doing this incorrectly for some time now.
> 
> RCG


RCG...you are correct, loading a mag & leaving it set will not harm the spring...it's the constantly loading & unloading that harms a spring.

relative to bersas, after market mags are not recommended...on a new gun or mag, you may want to dis-assemble & clean the mag as well.

trailblazer


----------



## mikld

kev74 said:


> Why didn't he send it back to the factory instead of to some half-assed gun smith? And why didn't he give you a refund instead of a credit if his guy couldn't make it right?
> 
> I'd be more pissed off at the local shop than I would at Bersa.


Many gun manufacturers have dedicated warranty repair shops or contractors. Many gun manufacturers will not accept returns to the factory (shipping to foriegn countrys can be problematic. Bersa mfg. in Italy?) and have "local" shops that will do the warrenty work/repair for them. Not uncommon; the dealer did as he was supposed to.


----------



## group17

Ricardokid said:


> I have the Beretta .380 nickel Cheetah and absolutely love it. I have fired about 500 rds. through it right out of the box with no ftf or fte. It's great for concealment and 13+1 ability. Good luck with your's. I like to pay a little more for a lot less aggravation.


How about 3x's cost of the bersa 380. I have a bersa 380 that has been perfect. Since it has a life time warranty you should have sent it back. Why pay a gun smith who might know about Bersa's. I have a Beretta 84BB. The Bersa380 shoots just as good IMO.


----------



## BigDaveP

wildcatbrownhound said:


> :watching:You are right; He should have sent it to the factory. He gave me full credit on the Beretta 84FS. If he had not done that I would not have bought the Beretta from him, and probally wont buy anything else from him anyway. Want to piss a man off? Throw the truth in his face. He didnt like it when I ask him if he would depend on the Bersa to defend his family. I have never had any respect for a man that would ask a man to do something he would not do. THANKS:watching:


I have two Bersas and both are superb and fail-free. That .380 has a fabulous reputation. It's an old, reliable and time tested design.

Guns come with sticky rust-preventative goop in them, not 'oil' per se. If you shoot without cleaning, the goop collects dirt from burned powder and the whole thing gets awful very quickly.

ALso, for you to have that many failures when the shop guy wasn't having them speaks ENTIRELY to technique. If you 'limp wrist' on the recoil, you can accidentally catch the previous empty case inside the ejection port, because the gun is 'following' the ejected case due to soft grip/limp wrist.

If a round doesn't slam all the way into the chamber, you probably don't have a clean gun. But it could be the newness of it as well, as many guns are overly 'tight' until you've put a few hundred rounds through them.

I have a Thunder 9mm and a Firestorm .22, which is the same design as your .380, and of my eight pistols they are my two favorites. I have Glock, Walther, Ruger and S&W and I like Bersa best. If yours was a lemon, it was rare.


----------



## VietVet68

Have you read the instruction manual? have you followed instructions for it's break in period? I own a Walther PPK/S in .380 and for the first two months I thought it was evil, really.
To make a long story short small guns are more sensitive to every thing than say a 1911. One big issue is the ammo you use. I've found that WWB works well in mine but it does not like JHP's. They seem to get hung up in the chamber and not fully seat. The solution for me, for PP ammo, was to use either PowR'Ball or Hornady Critical Defense. They mimic ball ammo shape.


----------

