# Weakening of a loaded magazine spring



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

Plan on buying a handgun for fun @ the range & HD. Gonna try to shoot a few b4 I buy. But I'm wondering if storing ammo in a semi-auto magazine will weaken the spring? I'd like to have ammo in a magazine that I could pop right in @ a moment's notice if need be. But if that's a problem then maybe I'd be better off with a DA revolver.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

This has been discussed here many times already.

Springs do not weaken from being held in a steady state, either compressed or extended.
Springs weaken only because they are repeatedly cycled (_i.e._, first compressed and then extended, over and over again). This is called "metal fatigue."

Pistol-magazine springs left compressed for a long time will not weaken. You can leave a magazine fully loaded for years and years without a worry.

Your question makes me think that you may be an inexperienced self-defense-gun owner.
Nobody who expects to need to use a gun for self defense would ever store the gun unloaded with a separate loaded magazine nearby, unless the laws of his jurisdiction demand that he do so. (See: New York City and Washington, DC)
It just takes too long to load-up, and the required manipulation is too difficult to do in a panic.

Please explain why you want to keep an unloaded gun for self defense. Maybe one or more of us could offer you a suggestion for a better method.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

Yes, I have never owned a gun nor stored one in the house for self-defense. ..have used them for hunting & target shooting only. OK with me in keeping my handgun loaded with I suppose a round in the chamber if that's the way to go. ..torn between a revolver & a semi-auto having read opinions for & against both.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Revolvers are wonderful choices as are quality semi-autos. Revolvers are inherently safe, are ready at a moment's notice, and there is no worry or concern about magazine springs or partially or fully cocked striker springs, in the case of striker fired pistols. Their only real downside is the fact that they hold less ammunition than pistols and take longer to reload than pistols.

Semi-autos _can _hold far more ammunition than revolvers, and tend to have greater practical accuracy (the ability of the gun/shooter combination to deliver accurate rounds to a target). Semi-autos, because of their popularity and sales, also tend to have a much greater selection of high quality self defense ammunition available to them.

So yes, it is a toss up. Some will say that people new to the world of handguns are generally better served with a revolver but that is not necessarily always true. If someone is driven to put in the time and effort to learn any handgun, revolver or pistol, they are going to do well enough with their choice to stake their life on both the gun and their ability to use it properly and to their advantage.

Regardless of which path you take, you should buy quality. Do your homework, take your time, and don't go cheap when it is your life, and perhaps the lives of your family, that could depend upon your decision. And remember these three essential criteria in this order comes to a defensive handgun;

1. Reliability. Your gun must go bang when it is called upon to defend you. If it fails in this, nothing else matters and the next two criteria are moot points.
2. Practical Accuracy. This is the ability of the gun/shooter combination to deliver rounds to target accurately, consistently, and confidently. If you cannot do this, the last criteria means nothing.
3. Power. The ability of the chosen caliber and load to stop an assailant's attack as quickly as possible so that he cannot injure or kill you.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

..very well written. I definitely have some homework to do b4 I spend my $ on this new endeavor. ..read a book titled "The Revolver" in which the author discussed single-action vs double-action. So I went to Gander Mtn the other day & the 1st thing the salesman showed me was something called "sriker-action". Hah! Another concept to learn about! lol I'm reading where a lot of semi-autos are finicky on the ammo they'll shoot so that could be an issue. However, I've studied the Springfield Armory selections & am being told they'll shoot dang near anything, are somewhat simple to field strip (if I understood the salesman), shoot relatively inexpensive 9mm ammo & are not terribly expensive to buy even new. They get rave reviews, I like the way they look, come with different back straps (I suppose that's maybe for different hand sizes) & they look like they'll maintain their looks with reasonable care. But I also gotta get my hands on a S&W 67 in 38spcl. ..just not sure if I could shoot DA accurately.


----------



## hillman (Jul 27, 2014)

A mechanical engineer who studied the spring matter has an article out there somewhere. The keyword for spring failure is _work_. When the new spring is used, i.e. worked, the bend areas undergo mild 'work hardening'; the spring becomes a little stiffer than when new. As the the spring continues working, the process of fatigue _very slowly_ progresses for awhile, until at some point it accelerates, leading to failure. The article has the semi-technical stuff, I'm just hitting the high points.

Storage under compression ain't in it, because the energy stored is potential, not kinetic; i.e. the work is not being done, it's waiting to be done.


----------



## GCBHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Binable said:


> ..very well written. I definitely have some homework to do b4 I spend my $ on this new endeavor. ..read a book titled "The Revolver" in which the author discussed single-action vs double-action. So I went to Gander Mtn the other day & the 1st thing the salesman showed me was something called "sriker-action". Hah! Another concept to learn about! lol I'm reading where a lot of semi-autos are finicky on the ammo they'll shoot so that could be an issue. However, I've studied the Springfield Armory selections & am being told they'll shoot dang near anything, are somewhat simple to field strip (if I understood the salesman), shoot relatively inexpensive 9mm ammo & are not terribly expensive to buy even new. They get rave reviews, I like the way they look, come with different back straps (I suppose that's maybe for different hand sizes) & they look like they'll maintain their looks with reasonable care. But I also gotta get my hands on a S&W 67 in 38spcl. ..just not sure if I could shoot DA accurately.


Most revolvers today are DA as are most semi-auto pistols. You can do whatever you want with proper training, but the only thing that wears out a spring is constant use. The springs in a semi-auto will eventually wear out, IF you shoot it. Obviously, the more you shoot it the sooner the springs will wear, but keeping them still does not wear them out regardless of whether they are compressed or extended.

Just take the time to become familiar with both so that you can make an intelligent decision for yourself. It isn't wise to make a decision about a gun based on what someone else says or thinks about it. That's tantamount to kissing your sister b/c your best friend likes it.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Binable said:


> ..very well written. I definitely have some homework to do b4 I spend my $ on this new endeavor. ..read a book titled "The Revolver" in which the author discussed single-action vs double-action. So I went to Gander Mtn the other day & the 1st thing the salesman showed me was something called "sriker-action". Hah! Another concept to learn about! lol I'm reading where a lot of semi-autos are finicky on the ammo they'll shoot so that could be an issue. However, I've studied the Springfield Armory selections & am being told they'll shoot dang near anything, are somewhat simple to field strip (if I understood the salesman), shoot relatively inexpensive 9mm ammo & are not terribly expensive to buy even new. They get rave reviews, I like the way they look, come with different back straps (I suppose that's maybe for different hand sizes) & they look like they'll maintain their looks with reasonable care. But I also gotta get my hands on a S&W 67 in 38spcl. ..just not sure if I could shoot DA accurately.


Were I you, these are the steps I would take as I move towards the purchase of a defensive handgun.

I would begin by first learning the terminology; the old adage, you can't understand what's going on without a program. Once I had this down pat, and it shouldn't take long, next up would be learning everything I could about action types for revolvers and semi-autos, calibers, loads and bullet designs and the reasoning behind them, and the practical side of handling and shooting handguns. And excellent treatise on this can be viewed in, "The Art of the Dynamic Handgun" (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Dynamic-H...50&sr=8-1&keywords=Dynamic+art+of+the+handgun).

For a quick definition on action types you must first understand what defines the action of a revolver or pistol. The action of the handgun is always defined by the task(s) the trigger performs... always.

There are five action types in common use in revolvers and semi-auto pistols, two for revolvers and three for pistols. For revolvers, you have single action (SA) and double action (DA). A single action revolver is best represented by the famed Single Action Army Revolver so common in western movies and TV. The trigger does only one thing; it releases the hammer to fire a cartridge. The hammer must be manually cocked for each shot. A double action revolver can be operated like a single action or you can just pull the trigger and it will both cock the hammer and release it to fire the gun (of course, it also rotates the cylinder while doing this).

With pistols, you have single action (SA), double action (DA) which is frequently called DA/SA, and double action only (DAO). An example of a single action pistol would be the well known Colt 1911 as was used during most of the 20th century by our military. This gun must be cocked for the first shot and since it is a semi-auto it is a self cocker for subsequent shots. All the trigger does is to release the hammer to fire the gun.

The double action pistol can operate like a single action or you can just pull the trigger for the first shot and it will both cock the hammer and release it to fire the gun. A good example of a DA pistol is the Beretta 92 series of pistols.

The double action only pistol is the most common action type for pistols and is most always a striker fired gun (there are some hammer fired DAO's). The triggers in these guns all operate in only one way. They cock and fire the gun every time they are pull or they complete the cocking and then fire the gun each time pulled. There are a few DAO pistols that are actually SAO since they don't complete the cocking of the striker before firing (the striker is held in a fully cocked condition) but this term is not normally used for them. Good examples of these are the Smith and Wesson M&P series and the Springfield Armory XD series.

So learn terminology first so you can both understand and converse in the language of the gun. Then learn the action types and how these might suit your specific needs. Once you've done this, you are well on your way to developing a candidate list of good choices from which you can narrow down and take a final decision.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

..appreciate the comeback, Southern boy. ..sounds like an intelligent plan. ..looks like I have a bit more to learn than originally figured. But that's OK. I'll enjoy the ride. ..will be going through the articles/posts @ handgun & other forums to get up to speed on this new (for me) handgun thingy. That's interesting on the spring dynamic. Yrs ago I showed off my dad's 81 DL Marlin 22 bolt to a bud. 1st thing he did was to remove the bolt, insert it in reverse & use it to release tension on the spring. Prior to that the rifle had always been stored with the bolt in place with the action open & thus cocked. He apparently mistakenly believed doing so damaged the spring. I've kept all my guns (sold nearly all of them a yr ago) with the springs relaxed. ..used SnapCaps on my shotguns. ..looks like an old dog learns he's had less to worry about than thought, at least on that issue. ..look forward to visiting your forum & getting everything up to speed. Thank you.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

...I really need to add: _Take some handgun self-defense classes!_

You will both learn about, and get to handle (and maybe fire), several different types of pistols.
You will learn basic pistol technique. With continuing practice, you will become effective at self-defense with a gun.
And you will learn the law. This may become the most important part of your education, if you ever need to use your weapon.

Pistol shooting is not easy. It takes good instruction, concentration, and continuing practice.
It almost doesn't matter which pistol you choose, as long as it is of relatively high quality, and as long as you practice with it to become both familiar and reasonably skilled. (Practice: That's the key. And did I mention that you need to practice a lot?)

Take a class or two, before you buy a gun.


----------



## Smitty79 (Oct 19, 2012)

Where I live, you can rent guns to take classes. If I had it to do over again, this is what I'd do. 

I am not a fan of revolvers. Revolvers are harder to shoot accurately as you pick it up. Their trigger pull is harder and longer. They also don't have very many rounds and they are hard to reload.

I believe that the easiest gun to learn to shoot first is a striker fired gun; Glocks, Smith & Wesson M&P, H&K VP9 would be good starts to try. I'd start with an M&P. But that is pure personal preference for ergonomics.

The other good place to look are DA/SA guns. Sig Sauer, Beretta and CZ are common in this class. I would pick a CZ P-07 out of this list as it has simpler controls and I find CZ's easier to shoot well.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

GCBHM said:


> Most revolvers today are DA *as are most semi-auto pistols.* You can do whatever you want with proper training, but the only thing that wears out a spring is constant use. The springs in a semi-auto will eventually wear out, IF you shoot it. Obviously, the more you shoot it the sooner the springs will wear, but keeping them still does not wear them out regardless of whether they are compressed or extended.
> 
> Just take the time to become familiar with both so that you can make an intelligent decision for yourself. It isn't wise to make a decision about a gun based on what someone else says or thinks about it. That's tantamount to kissing your sister b/c your best friend likes it.


I would wager that there are more DAO pistols than there are DA ones in the current market. This is largely due to the popularity of striker fired pistols.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> ...I really need to add: _Take some handgun self-defense classes!_
> 
> You will both learn about, and get to handle (and maybe fire), several different types of pistols.
> You will learn basic pistol technique. With continuing practice, you will become effective at self-defense with a gun.
> ...


Absolutely. I'm ashamed that I didn't mention this... very important.


----------



## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

OP, if you really intend to put some serious time in shooting, cleaning, dry-firing, etc., then just about any handgun of good quality will serve your needs. If you intend to not shoot it much, then I would suggest buying yourself a decent revolver. Semi-auto handguns, even the well known ones can have issues that you will need to rectify quickly, and without thinking, if it goes down in the middle of a fight. The revolver rarely will not fire, and there is not much in the way of a manual of arms to sink into your motor memory. Just My Humble Opinion.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

Yes sir, I plan on getting some professional help in my quest to become proficient @ handgunning. ..important point. And yes, knowing where you stand with the law is super important. I learned that 2 yrs ago after I 'd swatted a neighbor with a Louisville Slugger. I was scared sh_tless to take my cut & just knew I would go to jail for violating some law. ..sweated bullets for 4 days 'til the ASA was able to meet with me & assured me that, "You acted appropriately" and "It's obvious who the good guy is & who the bad guy is in this case." He called my neighbor riff raff. But heck, I didn't know the law nor did I know if the SA's office was going to side with me or not. In the end it worked out in my favor. ..never really knew my rights 'til after I had to keep this creep from entering my own home & beating the daylights out of me. Had I known where I stood @ least I'd of gone about it with more confidence & authority. So yeah, learning the legality of it all & getting hands-on training is on my to-do list.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

Yes, berettatoter, I'm leaning toward something like the DA S&W 67 revolver in 38 spcl. ..called around today to try & find one (I think it's the Model 15 only ss) to try out. Wish me luck on that. ..have read more than a few opinions promoting the revolver. It may not be cutting edge but they work when others don't. But I've got a ways to go b4 I purchase & I'm not the most predictable guy around. But if I had to make a choice today the S&W wheelgun would get the call.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Binable said:


> Yes, berettatoter, I'm leaning toward something like the DA S&W 67 revolver in 38 spcl. ..called around today to try & find one (I think it's the Model 15 only ss) to try out. Wish me luck on that. ..have read more than a few opinions promoting the revolver. It may not be cutting edge but they work when others don't. But I've got a ways to go b4 I purchase & I'm not the most predictable guy around. But if I had to make a choice today the S&W wheelgun would get the call.


If you're serious about considering a revolver, take a look at the Ruger GP100 with a 4.2" barrel (or even the 3" version). This gun is chambered for the .357 Magnum so it will also handle the .38 Special for a lighter practice load. Gives you both possibilities. And one of the best of its type out there.

One another issue... the law. As Steve said, do get training in this area if you can from reputable people. I have four classes/seminars under my belt and still like to learn more about this subject. It can save you untold amounts of anxiety, stress, and of course, your assets, not to mention your freedom. Most definitely learn the laws in your state as they relate to firearms; the carrying of them and their use in deadly force encounters.


----------



## jtguns (Sep 25, 2011)

One other thought I have not noticed is if you are planing on having a handgun in your house and loaded or if you have kids, you need a safe for that gun. There are plenty of safes for that purpose out there so think of that also. You don't want some thief breaking in and taking you firearm while you are gone and or the kids getting hold of it.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

I've looked @ the Rugers, especially the SP101 but am kinda concerned about it because some say you really need to do a trigger job as the spring may be a bit excessive...thus the interest in the S&W 67. I'll just have to go to some ranges & test them out. I've a bud who is a deputy. ..plan on doing some shooting with him so that should be good. But, yeah, there would be no substitute for actual class x.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

Never stored a loaded gun in the house, but it's just me so I think I'll start. ..would rather have it ready than not. I'm in a pretty secure house (good locks--& I actually use them!--security system, etc) but you never know when seconds might count.


----------



## Steve M1911A1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Don't store it. _Wear it_.

If you have kids, let them in on the secret, but make sure that they understand, on a very deep level, that it is a real secret, and not to be discussed...or even mentioned...outside the immediate family and the home.

Make your kids (if any)-and wife or girl-friend-reliably gun-safe: Don't _ever_ touch, unless an adult is present and has checked it first. (Kids can defeat even a safe, if they put their minds to the problem.)
Teach them the three (or four) basic rules of gun safety. (For that matter, you need to learn 'em too.)


----------



## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Binable said:


> Yes, berettatoter, I'm leaning toward something like the DA S&W 67 revolver in 38 spcl. ..called around today to try & find one (I think it's the Model 15 only ss) to try out. Wish me luck on that. ..have read more than a few opinions promoting the revolver. It may not be cutting edge but they work when others don't. But I've got a ways to go b4 I purchase & I'm not the most predictable guy around. But if I had to make a choice today the S&W wheelgun would get the call.


My very first CC handgun was a Taurus Model 85, in .38 Special...that was 1987, right after I got out of the service. I bought a Galco Miami Classic holster for it, and it was with me constantly at the range and on my person, for two years. I went the revolver rout first, and now have kinda gone full circle again. I am wanting to get another revolver in .357 Mag, so I can load it up with .38 Special +P, and still have the option of loading it with .357 Magnum if needed. I'll probably go with a Smith & Wesson, but would do a Taurus again, since I had such good luck with that first Taurus revolver years ago. Good luck and when you get your new carry piece, post some pics! :smt033


----------



## berettatoter (Sep 1, 2011)

Steve M1911A1 said:


> Don't store it. _Wear it_.
> 
> If you have kids, let them in on the secret, but make sure that they understand, on a very deep level, that it is a real secret, and not to be discussed...or even mentioned...outside the immediate family and the home.
> 
> ...


This ^^^! Very good advice!


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanx for the input Smitty79. ..gonna hang in there & take my x & enjoy the process of picking out this piece. ..not gonna rush it. I'll definitely include your ideas in my notes. I'll be picking up a lot of input from others as I go along. And no one said I couldn't own more than one.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

..had to write back SouthernBoy on the GP100. ..been studying handguns on the 'net all winter. ..was serious about the Spfld Armory XD 4.0, XDm 4.5" & 5.25", XDs 4.0, Ruger SP 101 & the S&W 67. .. shot 'em all. ..was @ a range Sat. ..was thru shooting & heading out the place. ..was looking @ all their guns that were for sale as I exited. ..three steps from the door & BOOM! there she was. Gorgeous! ..never seen one. ..the GP100 in 4.2". ..test fired her and what can I say? $610 (may have done a little better if I'd of been a bit more patient. But I'm not complaining. I'd seen these @ ruger.com but figured the 100 would be more gun than I'd want or need. ..too big in my mind. I was wrong! I'm happy. If I'd of missed her that day I'd of prbly ended up w the 67. For whatever reason I think I like this one a bit better) to my FFL. It was pre-owned w a man date of 11/14. ..looked new to me. In my mind it's got it all. Thx for the call.


----------



## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Binable said:


> ..had to write back SouthernBoy on the GP100. ..been studying handguns on the 'net all winter. ..was serious about the Spfld Armory XD 4.0, XDm 4.5" & 5.25", XDs 4.0, Ruger SP 101 & the S&W 67. .. shot 'em all. ..was @ a range Sat. ..was thru shooting & heading out the place. ..was looking @ all their guns that were for sale as I exited. ..three steps from the door & BOOM! there she was. Gorgeous! ..never seen one. ..the GP100 in 4.2". ..test fired her and what can I say? $610 (may have done a little better if I'd of been a bit more patient. But I'm not complaining. I'd seen these @ ruger.com but figured the 100 would be more gun than I'd want or need. ..too big in my mind. I was wrong! I'm happy. If I'd of missed her that day I'd of prbly ended up w the 67. For whatever reason I think I like this one a bit better) to my FFL. It was pre-owned w a man date of 11/14. ..looked new to me. In my mind it's got it all. Thx for the call.
> View attachment 1197


Congratulations! You picked up a fine revolver. One of the best out there. It will give you years of service. I own its precursor, a stainless steel Security Six with a 4" barrel. I bought it in 1976 and on the left side of the frame is stamped, "Made in the 200th year of American liberty". I will not sell that gun.


----------



## Binable (Aug 26, 2013)

I heard that! SouthernBoy on keeping the bi-centinial Security Six. I'd keep it too. Normally I study the heck out of everything before I spend my hard-earned $. But the GP100 caught me by surprise. I'd read a bit on the smaller SP 101, S & W 64/67 & the Springfield Armory offerings, but little on the GP100. I imagined it to be way more gun than I'd need. But while shooting & admiring it I soon determined that not to be the case. It is definitely the most substantial handgun I've shot, but it did not feel "too big" at all. I've read a bunch more on it since my purchase. ..haven't read a negative review yet. I doubt there are any out there. The form & finish of the Ruger I find to be very pleasing to the eye--and it just flat-out feels better in my hand than literally anything I've shot all winter & spring. Some folks will say it's a bit Plain Jane with the Hogue grips, but quite frankly I often find Plain Jane to be the fairest of them all. ..been a gas getting to this pt (prbly have 7 or 8 mos just to get to my 1st purchase). I suspect the fun will continue. ..taking notes on everyone's ideas as I tread down this path. ..looking frwrd to figuring it all out. Gonna put in another pic just for fun.


----------

