# To - carry and any situations when you’re glad you did?



## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Hello forum,

Been tossing around at some point getting a pistol I can carry. The only way that will happen is when I get my LTC (even though Texas doesn’t need it) and I am super comfortable with the operation of my current firearm.

Have any of you been in a position where you were glad you were carrying, but didn’t actually have to use it…it was more of a “peace of mind and glad you have it for that situation” type of scenario.

I only encountered one situation a long time ago that I can think of where just having it in my person would have given me a piece of mind…but it worked out. 

Just curious, and if this is in appropriate to ask apologies.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm happy everyday that I carry and don't need to use it.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Many times in my life it has been a comfort to me.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Glad to have it. More glad I never was in need of it. 
I guess a couple times in the past 20something years It came to the front of my mind, but that was about it.


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## Goldwing (Nov 5, 2014)

I had a skunk aiming a revolver at my face at approximately 10 inches.
Had I been armed at the time it wouldn't have done me any good. I was a dumb kid in the Air Force at the time. I could have easily avoided the encounter.
These days I am prepared. Sometimes I wear suspenders to go with my belt.


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## LostinTexas (Oct 1, 2018)

Goldwing said:


> I had a skunk aiming a revolver at my face at approximately 10 inches.
> Had I been armed at the time it wouldn't have done me any good. I was a dumb kid in the Air Force at the time. I could have easily avoided the encounter.
> These days I am prepared. Sometimes I wear suspenders to go with my belt.


Not getting into the former life. It was terrifying for the most part.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Yes, and yes I was most happy I was armed at the time.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Twice, I just thank God I didn't have to use it.


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## SSGN_Doc (Mar 12, 2020)

Yes, I have found it reassuring to have a sidearm available at times when it wasn’t needed. Only had to point a firearm at a person one time in my life, but that was not in average civilian American life.

As to getting a firearm to carry, there are lots of things to consider.
-Picking something you WILL carry. Light enough, small enough, potent enough, easy enough to use and practice with, comfortable to shoot and practice with. Easy to operate under an adrenaline dump, but safe enough to operate under an adrenaline dump without being prone to discharging when you don’t want to or aren’t quite ready for.

My two most carried handguns right now are:

A Beretta Px4 compact or a S&W J frame revolver. The Beretta because it is a Double action first pull for ensuring that first shot is deliberate. It is decocker only, so there is no safety to have to manipulate to get a shot off And the decocker let’s me safely lower the hammer when shooting is done And resets the trigger to DA for holstering. It has an exposed hammer for checking manually when holstering to ensure it is down and the trigger isn’t snagging anything on the way into the holster (by placing the thumb behind the hammer on return to holster).

An Airweight .38 Special is light, small, and easy to carry and conceal in lightweight clothing. It features a double action trigger and no safeties to have to deactivate in order to employ. (So, some of the same reasons for picking the Px4, and basic initial employment is the same without having to train or practice a different safety. Draw, point/aim, shoot.)


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

Goldwing said:


> I'm happy everyday that I carry and don't need to use it.


Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.


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## Arizona Desertman (10 mo ago)

lz33w7 said:


> Hello forum,
> 
> Been tossing around at some point getting a pistol I can carry. The only way that will happen is when I get my LTC (even though Texas doesn’t need it) and I am super comfortable with the operation of my current firearm.


One of the main reasons for getting a LTC in states that don't require it is to be in compliance with the "Gun Free School Zones act of 1990" which makes it a federal crime to carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft. of a school zone. The large number of K-12 schools in developed areas makes it difficult for an individual to travel any distance without entering a Gun Free School Zone. It's one of thee most asinine acts that congress ever passed and only serves to entrap and criminalize unsuspecting law abiding citizens. 

GUN FREE ZONES GOTTA' GO as they serve no useful purpose whatsoever. But unfortunately until the laws are changed we're stuck with them. This just goes to show how stupid some of our legislators are and those who voted for them. Do they really think that some deranged individual hell bent on committing mass murder will be deterred by them?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

The other good reason is if you travel out of state, your permit maybe accepted in that state unless you go to Yankee land,


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

tony pasley said:


> The other good reason is if you travel out of state, your permit maybe accepted in that state unless you go to Yankee land,


So true - and I am a Yankee…lol…oh well.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

That can be corrected with work lol


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

tony pasley said:


> That can be corrected with work lol


Lol - do you know the difference between a damn yankee and a Yankee?


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

A Yankee visits and goes home a Damn Yankee comes and stays and tries to change everything.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

tony pasley said:


> A Yankee visits and goes home a Damn Yankee comes and stays and tries to change everything.


LOL - solid copy there…yes sir LOL. I’ve stayed but I am not trying to change anything LOL.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Welcome to FREE AMERICA.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

tony pasley said:


> A Yankee visits and goes home a Damn Yankee comes and stays and tries to change everything.


Unfortunately that has happened to the largest population area in my state over the last 50+ years and has changed the socio-political complexion to be what it was not meant to be.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

I've had a permit since 1996. There were two times in the 90s where a crowd of drunk college kids harassed me and my wife at the time, as we were walking the neighborhood. I thought for sure I would have to draw my gun, but I kept my cool, didn't react to escalate the situation, and it worked out.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> I've had a permit since 1996. There were two times in the 90s where a crowd of drunk college kids harassed me and my wife at the time, as we were walking the neighborhood. I thought for sure I would have to draw my gun, but I kept my cool, didn't react to escalate the situation, and it worked out.


Glad it worked out. Staying calm and collected as you and everyone knows is the best way to go, obviously. Having a concealed weapon I would think would add to the calmness factor as well, knowing that you have some additional stopping power on your person if need be. Just thinking out loud but I always wonder what the chances of the other guy have a weapon in his/her person? Instigator seem always have a trick up their sleeve.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

Oh, I also remembered... Back around 2009, I almost got robbed in the parking lot of the local gun store... I actually just found an old thread I started on it, back in 2009... So, I refreshed my memory on what happened... Basically, I had gone to my local gunshop to check out some laser grips for my Beretta 92 (which was my main carry gun at the time). I wasn't carrying the gun at that moment, because I figured I'd have to bring mine into the shop to try the grips on it....

And, since they didn't have a Beretta 92 in the store on that particular day, I went back out to my car to get mine. I unloaded it and put it in a case to bring into the store. I exited the car with my carry case and was 1/2 way across the parking lot when I realized I had forgotten my set of allen wrenches to take my grips off. I started to turn around, and I saw two guys approaching me - 1 was about 20 feet ahead of the other.

The closest one had on a sweatshirt type hoodie, with his hood over his head. He also had both hands in the pockets and was fiddling with his hands inside of the shirt. I kept walking back towards my car and looked back at him again. He was looking straight at me, and then rapidly looked away. He then started to walk directly at me and look directly at me...

I got the allen wrench out of my car, and looked thru the car windows as I bent inwards (I had the car between me and him, as I was on the passenger side doing this). He still kept approaching straight to my car.

I knew he had already seen me with a guncase in my hand, and I think that is what he wanted.... To grab that from me and run... 

With the Beretta in the gun case, unloaded... All I actually had on me was my Keltec 32 in my front pocket.... And, I was pretty pissed that I had such a tiny gun.with such a small caliber on me - when something was about to happen.... I closed my door and saw him continuing towards me, and my radar was going off VERY highly. I walked to the front of my car and jumped down the edge of the lot to the driveway/street level, and passed a few small bushes (the parking lot is about 3-4 feet above the driveway level). I then went at a 90 degree to his approach, and walked at a decent pace. At this point, if he had rounded my car, jumped off the curb to street level and would have kept approaching me, it would have been super obvious what he wanted.

I was lower and had my car between he and I, and when I looked back again and could see him, he had rejoined the 2nd guy, and then they kept walking thru the parking lot. At that point, I circled back around and went into the gunshop.

I really felt like something was about to go down had I not retreated. There was no reason for the guy to come straight to me because it was basically a dead end to walk where my car was at, unless he wanted that gun case... I was lucky to avoid the situation. I mentioned it to the people in the gunshop, and they checked their camera system and looked at their outside cameras. But by that point, the guys were out of view. 

After that day, I immediately sold that Keltec 32, and I bought an Hk USP com[act in 45 ACP for a carry gun. I carried that thing for about 2 years as my daily carry gun after that incident. I never wanted to feel undergunned again.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

lz33w7 said:


> Glad it worked out. Staying calm and collected as you and everyone knows is the best way to go, obviously. Having a concealed weapon I would think would add to the calmness factor as well, knowing that you have some additional stopping power on your person if need be. Just thinking out loud but I always wonder what the chances of the other guy have a weapon in his/her person? Instigator seem always have a trick up their sleeve.
> 
> Kindly,
> Stephen


In my mind, I was just thinking how I was doing these morons a favor by keeping my wits about me. I didn't really want to have to use my gun that day. And, I'm not the type of person to have an ego problem, thankfully.


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## tony pasley (May 6, 2006)

Avoiding confrontation is always best.


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## BDziak (3 mo ago)

lz33w7 said:


> Hello forum,
> 
> Been tossing around at some point getting a pistol I can carry. The only way that will happen is when I get my LTC (even though Texas doesn’t need it) and I am super comfortable with the operation of my current firearm.
> 
> ...


I live in Las Vegas and I was leaving a Casino one night @ 2 am. I owned a Mercedes SL at the time and as I was walking to my car there were 3 guys in their mid 20's hanging around my car. As I walked up I hit the remote, the lights flashed and they turned and looked at me. As I walked towards the car, I opened my jacket wide tucking my shirt in and exposing my shoulder holster. They tried a few intimidating remarks and I asked them if they wanted to meet my partner and I reopened my jacket. Smartly, they walked away. That.....Fortunately was the closest I've ever come to pulling my gun. She never left my holster. I contacted security and the 3 of them were rounded up for questioning as I drove off.


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## BDziak (3 mo ago)

Arizona Desertman said:


> One of the main reasons for getting a LTC in states that don't require it is to be in compliance with the "Gun Free School Zones act of 1990" which makes it a federal crime to carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft. of a school zone. The large number of K-12 schools in developed areas makes it difficult for an individual to travel any distance without entering a Gun Free School Zone. It's one of thee most asinine acts that congress ever passed and only serves to entrap and criminalize unsuspecting law abiding citizens.
> 
> GUN FREE ZONES GOTTA' GO as they serve no useful purpose whatsoever. But unfortunately until the laws are changed we're stuck with them. This just goes to show how stupid some of our legislators are and those who voted for them. Do they really think that some deranged individual hell bent on committing mass murder will be deterred by them?


Most GUN FREE ZONES involve kids areas like CHUCKIE CHEESE and others. My son and Daughter In Law always book an event for our Grandkids Birthday parties and I will ALWAYS carry in those places. They are soft zones for Idiots to attack. I will ALWAYS protect my family and especially in those soft places.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

BDziak said:


> Most GUN FREE ZONES involve kids areas like CHUCKIE CHEESE and others. My son and Daughter In Law always book an event for our Grandkids Birthday parties and I will ALWAYS carry in those places. They are soft zones for Idiots to attack. I will ALWAYS protect my family and especially in those soft places.


Absolutely - and thank you for that. Strange - I’ve been single all my life and just moved in with my girlfriend…her 18 year old and mother live with us. As soon as I moved in I felt an overwhelming responsibility to protect all of them…especially what’s happened here in the neighborhood. 

As I become more comfortable with my pistol…then my LTC and carry weapon…I will be able to protect them on all fronts.

Kindly,

“The Yankee”

Stephen


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

BDziak said:


> I live in Las Vegas and I was leaving a Casino one night @ 2 am. I owned a Mercedes SL at the time and as I was walking to my car there were 3 guys in their mid 20's hanging around my car. As I walked up I hit the remote, the lights flashed and they turned and looked at me. As I walked towards the car, I opened my jacket wide tucking my shirt in and exposing my shoulder holster. They tried a few intimidating remarks and I asked them if they wanted to meet my partner and I reopened my jacket. Smartly, they walked away. That.....Fortunately was the closest I've ever come to pulling my gun. She never left my holster. I contacted security and the 3 of them were rounded up for questioning as I drove off.


Glad you were armed - could have been a very ugly situation. I drive 2 old school classic cars…never fails when I go to the gas station down the street…I am approached and being asked for money 6/10 times…never fails. There have been a few shady characters come up to me but it’s always been harmless until that one time….I will be prepared thanks to you, your story and others on here. 

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen


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## drycreek (Jul 17, 2021)

Arizona Desertman said:


> Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.


My sentiments exactly ! Only times I’ve ever had to draw my pistol I used it, fortunately those two incidents left me alive and unscathed, can’t say the same for the armed perps. It’s a good thing they were only feral hogs and had no cell phones with which to call the cops !


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## Feldrew (5 mo ago)

I live in Jersey with highly restrictive gun laws and the new carry laws are being rewritten as I type - lots of hurdles to jump through to get the LTC and restrictions on where you can, so I don't know if it's even worth getting the license. That said, I hesitate on another account - liability. As mentioned above, if you can retreat to safety, do it. Better to notify law enforcement and let them do their job. My concern is if I were to use my firearm and somehow injure or kill an innocent bystander. I know, train, train, train. But you can never control all the variables, especially in a high stress situation. I also wouldn't want to get mistaken for the bad guy by law enforcement or another good Samaritan. I have 40+ years of martial arts training / teaching. I do NOT teach gun disarms because they're 99% bullshit and will get you killed. If someone has the draw on me, take my wallet, sneakers, whatever. I also do my best to avoid ever putting myself into such a situation in the first place. A lot of folks don't know how to defuse a situation or let their ego get in the way of self-preservation.

By the way, a great book to read on this is Andrew Branca's The Law of Self Defense ( The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen: Andrew F. Branca, Massad Ayoob: 9781943809141: Amazon.com: Books) .


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## BDziak (3 mo ago)

Feldrew said:


> I live in Jersey with highly restrictive gun laws and the new carry laws are being rewritten as I type - lots of hurdles to jump through to get the LTC and restrictions on where you can, so I don't know if it's even worth getting the license. That said, I hesitate on another account - liability. As mentioned above, if you can retreat to safety, do it. Better to notify law enforcement and let them do their job. My concern is if I were to use my firearm and somehow injure or kill an innocent bystander. I know, train, train, train. But you can never control all the variables, especially in a high stress situation. I also wouldn't want to get mistaken for the bad guy by law enforcement or another good Samaritan. I have 40+ years of martial arts training / teaching. I do NOT teach gun disarms because they're 99% bullshit and will get you killed. If someone has the draw on me, take my wallet, sneakers, whatever. I also do my best to avoid ever putting myself into such a situation in the first place. A lot of folks don't know how to defuse a situation or let their ego get in the way of self-preservation.
> 
> By the way, a great book to read on this is Andrew Branca's The Law of Self Defense ( The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen: Andrew F. Branca, Massad Ayoob: 9781943809141: Amazon.com: Books) .


I fully agree with you. If they have the drop on you....HELL, give them your underwear if they want it. The goal is to be able to Walk Away. I now live in Las Vegas where the Gun Laws are nowhere near what you go through in New Jersey. The sad part of the story is there are Idiots all over these great 50 states. I have Insurance in the event I'm involved in a shooting. I'm NOT SELLING INSURANCE but the company is TEXAS LAW SHIELD (I hope this doesn't violate any forum rules) and they provide Attorney coverage in the event a person is involved in a shooting. You may want to look into something like this. It does no good after the fact however before it should happen again. Just an FYI.....


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

BDziak said:


> I fully agree with you. If they have the drop on you....HELL, give them your underwear if they want it. The goal is to be able to Walk Away. I now live in Las Vegas where the Gun Laws are nowhere near what you go through in New Jersey. The sad part of the story is there are Idiots all over these great 50 states. I have Insurance in the event I'm involved in a shooting. I'm NOT SELLING INSURANCE but the company is TEXAS LAW SHIELD (I hope this doesn't violate any forum rules) and they provide Attorney coverage in the event a person is involved in a shooting. You may want to look into something like this. It does no good after the fact however before it should happen again. Just an FYI.....


Interesting you bring this up..my instructor just told me about this.

Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Feldrew (5 mo ago)

There is talk of making some type of LTC liability insurance a requirement here in Jersey to carry. Of course, there are no rules, guidelines, or relevant insurance providers for such coverage here in the state. So a convenient Catch-22, right? I'm friends with a retired LEO who said that even though he has his carry permit, he's wary of carrying without some type of insurance. By no means am I naive and thinking that there aren't potential situations where my pistol could save my life and the lives of others. I'm fortunate to have never been in such a situation. I suppose it would be great to have it with me. Note that in the book I reference above, the author strongly emphasizes NOT taking on the role of a good Samaritan in almost every single circumstance. 
And yes, the goal IS to be able to walk away. I see so many clowns teaching handgun defense and I just think "good luck with that". If you can go home to your family after a dangerous or potentially fatal encounter, it is a truly wonderful day.


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

BDziak said:


> I fully agree with you. If they have the drop on you....HELL, give them your underwear if they want it. The goal is to be able to Walk Away. I now live in Las Vegas where the Gun Laws are nowhere near what you go through in New Jersey. The sad part of the story is there are Idiots all over these great 50 states. I have Insurance in the event I'm involved in a shooting. I'm NOT SELLING INSURANCE but the company is TEXAS LAW SHIELD (I hope this doesn't violate any forum rules) and they provide Attorney coverage in the event a person is involved in a shooting. You may want to look into something like this. It does no good after the fact however before it should happen again. Just an FYI.....



I have them too, although I may switch to a different company next year. This past year was the first time I ever got that kind of insurance before


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

I just feel like at the end of the day, no matter what people do who carry, we’ll lose out. I think it’s rather unfortunate. 

earlier this year someone was trying to get through the front door of my girl friend’s house…if I were here I would have been answering with my pistol, for sure.

This week, I will be looking into getting insurance.

The Yankee,

Kindly,
Stephen


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> I have them too, although I may switch to a different company next year. This past year was the first time I ever got that kind of insurance before


First time, wow - was it just to protect yourself in case a bad situation did not go your way?

The Yankee,

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

lz33w7 said:


> First time, wow - was it just to protect yourself in case a bad situation did not go your way?
> 
> The Yankee,
> 
> ...



I have worked in the criminal justice field for 31 years now. I am aware of the crazy stuff that happens. For a while, I think Texas Law Shield was one of the first companies of its kind in the game (they have later gone nationwide now). One thing I didn't like is that you don't get to pick your lawyer with such an insurance... They give you a lawyer of their choosing.

I am in court all the time for my job, and I think I have only seen a handful of lawyers in over 20 years that I would personally hire. So, that was one of the main reasons I never got the insurance.

But after seeing the things that have gone on a couple of years ago - innocent people swept up in these protests. People being arrested for defending themselves with the news media lying about facts o stir up problems.... I finally broke down and bought the insurance about a year ago. 

I figured that I could at least get access to a lawyer immediately, and then hire my own later if I don't like who they give you.

Now, there ARE some other liability insurance companies - and some of them allow you to hire your own attorney, and then they pay for it. But, those are like 2x the price of Texas Law Shield. So, for the first year, that's why I went with them. I'll decide next year if I will renew with them or not.

I realize there was some lawsuit settlement with Texas Law Shield a few years ago. If I remember right, people felt like they were pressured to buy the insurance because the company had deals with many instructors for the concealed carry class to push the insurance in the class.

I do remember seeing them at many of the big, Houston gun shows I used to go to too. But, settling that kind of lawsuit doesn't matter to me, personally.


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## Feldrew (5 mo ago)

That's a great observation regarding lawyers. The right one can make all the difference in the world in your defense and the great ones are probably more than most of us can afford. 
I suppose the substance and scope of carry insurance would be equally important. If you accidentally injure or kill an innocent person, beyond hiring a lawyer, what does that insurance truly buy? Can it protect you against civil penalties, protect your home and assets, and so forth. I don't see how it can protect you from criminal liability if your actions are considered criminal in nature. I'm not a lawyer. Again, I'd highly recommend folks read that book I mentioned above and learn the laws of the state you live in.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I have two forms of insurance for such incidents. One is an umbrella personal liability policy with unlimited legal cost coverage. It will only protect me if I am not on the wrong side of the legal issue. For example, if I pushed someone off of my deck who was being a jerk at a party at my house, I cannot expect this policy to cover me. I also have a policy with USCCA.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Feldrew said:


> If you accidentally injure or kill an innocent person, beyond hiring a lawyer, what does that insurance truly buy? Can it protect you against civil penalties, protect your home and assets, and so forth. I don't see how it can protect you from criminal liability if your actions are considered criminal in nature. I'm not a lawyer. Again, I'd highly recommend folks read that book I mentioned above and learn the laws of the state you live in.


If you accidently injure or kill someone while using deadly force to protect yourself, you may not be held responsible for this. It's going to depend upon in which state the event takes place. In my state, Virginia, the person who would be criminally liable if this were to happen would be your assailant and not you.

As for civil liability, well you can be sued for just about anything but the chance of being sued for something like this may be pretty remote if your actions to save yourself from serious bodily harm were found to have been justified. Still it never hurts to have insurance for such things.


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## Feldrew (5 mo ago)

SouthernBoy said:


> If you accidently injure or kill someone while using deadly force to protect yourself, you may not be held responsible for this. It's going to depend upon in which state the event takes place. In my state, Virginia, the person who would be criminally liable if this were to happen would be your assailant and not you.
> 
> As for civil liability, well you can be sued for just about anything but the chance of being sued for something like this may be pretty remote if your actions to save yourself from serious bodily harm were found to have been justified. Still it never hurts to have insurance for such things.


I'm not disagreeing with you outright, more so pointing out your wise usage of the word "may". You may not be held responsible, and that is true. But we've all seen the courts make some wrong, unjust decisions in the case of self defense. I know a guy who was doing a martial arts demo, some asshat from the audience came at him unprovoked, he responded by hitting the guy once....and the asshat hit his head on a concrete bench on the way to the ground. He stated he was defending himself. The prosecuting attorney for the family brought up his martial arts training, saying how he should have been able to deal with the guy 'differently', and ultimately, the karate guy went to jail for involuntary manslaughter. You never know how a judge or jury will react to your use of a firearm. 

As for civil liability, the bar is lower than in a criminal case, the key is pointing out your justification for the use of force and that level, as well as mitigating factors (did you perceive his threat accurately according to the circumstances, did you have an opportunity to safely retreat, etc.). 

This is a worthwhile discussion that we should all have with others and within our own minds.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

All this a lot to process in a split second. You know what really pisses me off is society being so quick to blame any type of law enforcement when they have a split second to act …either saving their own life or a civilians life. At the end of the day, me personally, I want to do what is right…but if that means I can protect myself, family or innocent bystander by chance…I think I would do it. Unfortunately, it seems like the bad guys have more rights then what we do.

The education I’ve received from everyone in this forum is nothing short of spectacular.

I salute the men and women who protect our society.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Feldrew said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you outright, more so pointing out your wise usage of the word "may". You may not be held responsible, and that is true. But we've all seen the courts make some wrong, unjust decisions in the case of self defense. I know a guy who was doing a martial arts demo, some asshat from the audience came at him unprovoked, he responded by hitting the guy once....and the asshat hit his head on a concrete bench on the way to the ground. He stated he was defending himself. The prosecuting attorney for the family brought up his martial arts training, saying how he should have been able to deal with the guy 'differently', and ultimately, the karate guy went to jail for involuntary manslaughter. You never know how a judge or jury will react to your use of a firearm.
> 
> As for civil liability, the bar is lower than in a criminal case, the key is pointing out your justification for the use of force and that level, as well as mitigating factors (did you perceive his threat accurately according to the circumstances, did you have an opportunity to safely retreat, etc.).
> 
> This is a worthwhile discussion that we should all have with others and within our own minds.


You're right about never knowing how or in which direction a case might go. Perhaps I should have expanded a bit. If you are faced with having to use deadly force in your defense and during the confrontation, one or several of your shots manage to hit an innocent bystander AND you were not responding recklessly or negligently, i.e. spraying and praying, you cannot be held criminally liable* for this unfortunate event. You cannot be expected to withhold fire if an innocent party happens upon the scene while your assailant is continuing to fire at you. The idea is that you are in a perilous situation and your life takes precedence at this point in time.

As for civil liability... At the end of one of the seminars on Virginia law and the use of deadly force which I took around nine or ten years ago, I noticed two folks who had arrived as things were wrapping up. One was the current commonwealth's attorney in the county in which the seminar was held and the other was running for sheriff in the same county. I asked them what the chances would be of getting sued by the perp or his family if you used deadly force in your defense in the state. Neither one of these two gentlemen could recall such a case in their experience in the state. I thought that was very interesting.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

I just watched the interview of the courageous gentlemen who was able to take down that coward who went into the bar in Colorado. His daughter lost her boyfriend of 6 years. Very sad.

I understand why you cannot carry into a bar for a number of reasons…but that’s one time I wish we could carry.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## Shipwreck (Jan 26, 2006)

There are some states that allow carry in a bar if you don't drink. But not allowed in TX.


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## lz33w7 (3 mo ago)

Shipwreck said:


> There are some states that allow carry in a bar if you don't drink. But not allowed in TX.


Interesting - most recently we were out…and 2 guys walk into a bar with 9 inch daggers on their person…the bouncer quickly escorted them out. Pretty gutsy move to do that in my opinion.

Kindly,
Stephen


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Well we don't have that problem with carrying in bars here because there are no bars in Virginia that are open to the general public. None. It's not legal. That being said, we can carry into places which serve alcohol for consumption on the premises but we cannot consume alcohol on those premises while carrying concealed. If we are openly carrying, we can consume alcohol, however that is generally frowned upon by most gun people. One small drink, not so bad, multiple drinks, not a good thing.


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