# Learning to shoot



## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

I went to a local range for the first time about 3 months ago. The range personel gave me a Glock 17 and teach me the basic techniques of handgun shooting. The first results, at 10 meters, were rather embarassing : I would have been more accurate if I threw a stone. But I found it pleasant enough to come back several times with a friend. I tried different guns : A Sig (P226?), a CZ, a Glock 17 again, with the same modest results. Clearly I need more training and practice. So I ask for help from experienced shooters, search the Internet and got a book I learned about from this forum: "The perfect pistol shot". And I tried ,I am still trying, to learn the basics of "target acquisition, pistol, gripping, trigger control, ...". And the book helps me the most as I can read it slowly at my pace. I got better accuracy: nothing to brag about to anybody, but very encouraging for myself. And I decided to buy my own Glock 17 and also a Sig Mosquito as I thought it would be an easier learning pistol. So far I have shot about 600 rounds on each pistol. But what have surprised me most is that I get much better results with the Glock (at 20m). I did not have all the malfunctions I read about the Mosquito on the Internet. But, for me, it is not easier to learn shooting with a Mosquito than with a Glock 17.

I am still learning and discovering a lot about pistol shooting on this forum so any comment is welcomed. Thanks in advance.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

First off, welcome aboard. We're pleased to have you with us.

There is much to learn with the art of shooting a handgun, or shooting anything for that matter. Sounds as though you are off to a good start. The Glock 17 is a decent platform from which to begin your quest. If your new Glock has the stock Glock sights, I would recommend getting some quality after market sights. These will go a long way in helping you shoot your new pistol better with more consistently accurate rounds to target. Don't rush into new sights but rather spend some time investigating what you believe will work best for you. You local gun shops are probably your best friend in this area, along with searching various websites about this.

So what does one do to learn to shoot well? In a work, technique. There are many variations of this, but the general feeling for handguns is best outlined in the following video series, which can be viewed online;

Amazon.com: Magpul Art of Dynamic Handgun DVD (Set of 4): Movies & TV

Link;
Dynamic Handgun - Pistola tática. - YouTube

This series and these instructors are among the best and their techniques work. I know this for fact.

Take the time and view the link above, then come back with your questions. Take the time and make the effort to practice in your home with your unloaded pistol until your hold, stance, trigger discipline, sight alignment, and target acquisition become second nature.... something you just do when that gun comes out of its holster.

Once again, glad you're here.


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## Jayghf1978 (Jun 11, 2013)

I can certainly relate to you as I am fairly new shooter myself.

My first live action was a forgettable one, with the following visits much better and more consistent. My first advice from experience is pistol handle. If you feel Glock 17 is your choice of shooting, then stick with it throughout your training. Practice pistol placement at home firing dry shots, assuming your knowledge of dry firing is adequate. Get accustomed with it in your control, from grip to weight and familiarity with its ergonomics. Do it until it sits natural in your hands.

Second advice from experience is comfort level. When I first started shooting I felt immense pressure to handle firearms and perform to improve. While others were enjoying themselves I was sweating to keep up. Mental preparation is just as important as physical capabilities. There were times when I was frustrated I became more erratic, until I learned to keep calm and maintain sharp. Absolute night and day mental preparations can effect your results.

I'm still fairly new myself, but I have made much strides. Good luck.


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## JordanDebes (Jun 12, 2013)

SouthernBoy said:


> First off, welcome aboard. We're pleased to have you with us.
> 
> There is much to learn with the art of shooting a handgun, or shooting anything for that matter. Sounds as though you are off to a good start. The Glock 17 is a decent platform from which to begin your quest. If your new Glock has the stock Glock sights, I would recommend getting some quality after market sights. These will go a long way in helping you shoot your new pistol better with more consistently accurate rounds to target. Don't rush into new sights but rather spend some time investigating what you believe will work best for you. You local gun shops are probably your best friend in this area, along with searching various websites about this.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip on the video series SB. I ordered it today.


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## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

Thank you SouthernBoy for your advices. I am planning to acquire new sights for my Glock. I will order the DVD you suggested when I will be more competent for I think I will not benefit from them at my level.
Thanks Jayghf1978, you are absolutely right. Mental preparation is as important, if not more, than physical preparation.


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## denner (Jun 3, 2011)

Fundamentals of Trigger Control - YouTube


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

black.cap17 said:


> Thank you SouthernBoy for your advices. I am planning to acquire new sights for my Glock. I will order the DVD you suggested when I will be more competent for I think I will not benefit from them at my level.
> Thanks Jayghf1978, you are absolutely right. Mental preparation is as important, if not more, than physical preparation.


I do advise that you do your homework on after market sights since there are a lot of them out there for the Glock. Take your time with this. I have bought and installed sights in the past just to find that they didn't really work out like I had hoped. So I would wind up removing them for something else. I wouldn't get the sights just yet. Better to spend time getting your technique down and learning the fundamentals first before changing out your sights. In that way, you'll be better prepared and informed to take a better decision for what would work best for you.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

The 3 most important things to shooting a handgun well is sight alignment,trigger control and recoil control,the last being subjective person to person.If any one of those are off you won't hit.

The sights on most guns are adequate to get the job done,but replacements that are a little taller or adjust the amount of light on the sides of the front sight make alignment easier.Stare at the front,don't focus anywhere else.

Triggers are important learning,a nasty trigger will fight you the whole process.Dryfire helps control the pull and get you settled in on it,do do it alot.If the trigger feels nasty,have it smoothed out.If I teach someone to shoot,I use a good 22 or a 1911 because the triggers are nice to make that requirement easier.

Recoil is subjective,some find the recoil of a 45 too much but I think it's nothing.Being new,recoil can be quite intimidating and will induce a flinch whether you know it or not.That will pull your sights all over the place when the shot breaks.That is the largest reason people are started out with a 22,the recoil doesn't factor in so concentration can be placed on more important issues.Everyone should have a 22 anyway,it's a very versitile round to have.I personally would trade yours off for something of higher quality,like a Ruger or Browning.The Browning Buckmark may be a target only pistol,meaning target ammo only and no high velocity but I never owned one to know.A good 22 is great for cheap practice and it will show you if you flinch shooting it right after a recoiling caliber.

Shooting a handgun isn't an instinct and doesn't stay with you like riding a bike,it's learned.Practice is the only way to learn and it takes alot,hence a good 22 is just about a requirement.It also keeps pests away,can feed you,and in a pinch protect your life.Like I said,a very versitile round for cheap.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

Grip is important too... this is most newer shooters biggest hurdle along with trigger control. Proper grip is essential for controling the firearm and getting back on target quick. The right grip can reduce some, most or all recoil depending on caliber used.

You'll be surprised how much your accuracy will improve by getting the proper grip on your pistol.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes,that's very true,especially with more modern pistols.I tend to gravitate thought about pistols to the 1911/P35 era since I'm kind of old fashioned,even though that era was before my time.As such I tend to put that down into the stance/breathing catagory.While they are important,to a little lesser degree to me.With the newer crop of autos,you are correct though because they are quiote reliant on a firm grip for just proper operation.

A fullsized 1911 isn't near as suseptable to jambing due to grip,I have barely held on to one and it operated fine.It will of course shoot high but it will hit there every time if the grip is consistant.When I used to run my carry gun in matches it shot low compared to carry ammo because one was 200gr and the other 230.With the carry ammo I used a normal grip but with the match ammo I loosened my grip a bit to get the gun to shoot POA.Pretty much the same as the required change between a one and two hand hold.When I really got into working on speed,I set a gun up just for matches to simplify my grip between different guns.

Stance and breathing are similar for me.You have the Weaver,Chapman,yadayada stance,pick one.Well,that doesn't work out in the real world.You may be able to shoot Isosceles but you may have to switch to a modified Weaver.I was always watching people shoot a string and move to square their hold pn the target-no,you must be able to shoot in any position.

Breathing,that has to be flexable too,stop it at any point in the process to steady the shot and take it.

Now that I think back to the OP,I'm getting a little too advanced for the beginner.You are correct that in this stage of the game every point is very important to ingrain the basics before you can advance.Sorry man,my foopah.


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## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

Thank you TAPnRACK & rex for your advices on pistol grip. I have done many searches on Youtube on this subject and the advices were quite consistent and I believe I can manage a decent grip for a newbie. I got the best tip from my favorite (also first and only) book on shooting "The perfect pistol shot" and this tip is "Lift your thumbs off the weapon". And as the author Albert H. League said :"... You will dramatically reduce your tendencies toward strong hand torque..."

rex, for now recoil is not a problem for me, as I haven't shot anything stronger than 9mm. I will try other calibers in the future.

denner, I have watched the video from your link and it contains many great advices. I will try them all and also learn trigger control by shooting a DA revolver.

Thank you all for your time.


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## johnr (Jun 13, 2008)

I also have a mosquito to complement my 9mm (FNP9) and find it enjoyable yet frustrating to shoot accurately. i have decided the problem with my Mosquito is a very strong trigger pull, almost 10# in single action, and well over in double.

i tried to do a little home gunsmithing, and managed to get the trigger smoother, but still rather strong.

i have found that if i "dry fire" practice, before going to the range, i can improve my grip, trigger contol, and ultimately accruacy. 

ymmv

john


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

TAPnRACK said:


> Grip is important too... this is most newer shooters biggest hurdle along with trigger control. Proper grip is essential for controling the firearm and getting back on target quick. The right grip can reduce some, most or all recoil depending on caliber used.
> 
> You'll be surprised how much your accuracy will improve by getting the proper grip on your pistol.


This is so true. Thanks for emphasizing this fact.

With grip, it is easy to develop bad habits that then become hard to correct. The way the handgun is gripped plays a major role in; 1) the shooter's practical accuracy and consistency and, 2) the ability to deliver quick and accurate followup shots.


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## JordanDebes (Jun 12, 2013)

Is it a bad habit to cock the trigger on a DA/SA for the first shot? I have a Beretta 92fs which is a pleasure at the range but I prefer the trigger pull on the single action.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

JordanDebes said:


> Is it a bad habit to cock the trigger on a DA/SA for the first shot? I have a Beretta 92fs which is a pleasure at the range but I prefer the trigger pull on the single action.


You mean cock the hammer not the trigger.

No, it's not. However if this is to be a home defense or carry gun, you should practice with it in the manner in which you would use it should you have have to do so. That means DA on the first pull.


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## JordanDebes (Jun 12, 2013)

Sorry, I meant what you know. I will practice with the DA on first shot.


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## rex (Jan 27, 2012)

Blackcap,there are also 2 ways to grip the pistol,there's a tread called 'the combat grip' down in the genral forum.

For years the common 2 hand grip was to grip the gun solidly and push with the strong hand and pull with the support hand,and that is what most do naturally.

Brian Enos changed that thought process,it feels awkward but works quite well.You need to use a high thumb hold aka 1911 hold but will work with any gun whether it has a safety to rest on or not.With this hold your strong hand squeezes front to rear on the grip and the support hand comes up as high as possible under the trigger guard with the wrist droke down,this places the heel at the base of the thumb up high under the strong thumb.When you get a grip on it you squeeze the grip sides together.Like I said it feels weird but I found it works quite well.It also helps with trigger finger isolation because you don't have to bear down so hard with the strong hand.Getting your trigger finger to operate isolated from the rest of your hand takes work because it wants to follow along with what the others are doing.That's the reason some people milk the grip,or tighten their fingers while pulling the trigger,and pull their shots low.

Just keep up the practice,it'll all fall in place in time.


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## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

Thank you rex, I will certainly keep up the practice.


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## JordanDebes (Jun 12, 2013)

Speaking of practice. What is the normal or standard distances for target shooting. I took a course a couple weeks ago and we were maybe 15 feet from the targets. What is recommended?


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

JordanDebes said:


> Speaking of practice. What is the normal or standard distances for target shooting. I took a course a couple weeks ago and we were maybe 15 feet from the targets. What is recommended?


I practice at distances from 9 feet to 21 feet with a few magazines at 50 feet. Most SD encounters are going to be within 21 feet and of those, I would bet most are less than 12 feet. Think about it. If you're a BG you want to surprise your victim at close range to both increase the fear and intimidation factors and your ability to project force.


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## JordanDebes (Jun 12, 2013)

That's what I had heard so I've been practicing at ranges of 15 to 25 feet. In the military we were shooting rifles at 300 yards. Change of pace to find shot placement equally challenging with a pistol at close range. I had assumed it would be easier. Thanks for the response


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

JordanDebes said:


> That's what I had heard so I've been practicing at ranges of 15 to 25 feet. In the military we were shooting rifles at 300 yards. Change of pace to find shot placement equally challenging with a pistol at close range. I had assumed it would be easier. Thanks for the response


It is good to practice at different ranges in the "self defense field of operations" (for lack of a better term). I go to the range every two weeks with a neighbor friend and we don't use conventional targets or stationary target holders. We use 6" and 9" paper plates, index cards (two sizes), 8.5" x 11" copy paper, and printed out specialty targets (the Dot Torture Test for example). On the copy paper, we draw differing shapes and number them then call out the numbers to each other as a target turns and presents then flips back to show its edge. We also do this with draw and fire exercises a lot with the paper plates. We include reloads, both tactical and from empty and it is all in a timed presentation and from varying distances.

This has been great practice for me and for my friend and it is a lot of fun. Our wives think it's good, too, not because we're out of the house but because of what it has done for our shooting. You might say it's our golf.


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## Bisley (Aug 24, 2008)

I would be encouraged that I was shooting the Glock well at 20 meters. That you are doing that means that you can control the somewhat long trigger pull while keeping your sights aligned on a small target...that's the whole ballgame, really. Continue to excel at longer distances, since that is what you do best, and do it as fast and smoothly as you can. If you can hit a small target, but get sloppy on the bigger, closer ones, you are losing your concentration. Pick out a small spot on the closer targets to aim for, and you will do better. You don't ever want to give up accuracy for speed, while learning. 

If self-defense shooting is your goal, you can use dry-fire practice at home to develop the skills, and then practice with live ammo, later, when you go to the range. But don't let your marksmanship skills suffer, in the process.


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## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

..."_ If you can hit a small target, but get sloppy on the bigger, closer ones, you are losing your concentration. Pick out a small spot on the closer targets to aim for, and you will do better. You don't ever want to give up accuracy for speed, while learning...._"
Thanks Bisley for the tip.


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## TAPnRACK (Jan 30, 2013)

^Aim small... miss small.


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## scrapper (Jun 13, 2013)

black.cap17 said:


> I went to a local range for the first time about 3 months ago. The range personel gave me a Glock 17 and teach me the basic techniques of handgun shooting. The first results, at 10 meters, were rather embarassing : I would have been more accurate if I threw a stone. But I found it pleasant enough to come back several times with a friend. I tried different guns : A Sig (P226?), a CZ, a Glock 17 again, with the same modest results. Clearly I need more training and practice. So I ask for help from experienced shooters, search the Internet and got a book I learned about from this forum: "The perfect pistol shot". And I tried ,I am still trying, to learn the basics of "target acquisition, pistol, gripping, trigger control, ...". And the book helps me the most as I can read it slowly at my pace. I got better accuracy: nothing to brag about to anybody, but very encouraging for myself. And I decided to buy my own Glock 17 and also a Sig Mosquito as I thought it would be an easier learning pistol. So far I have shot about 600 rounds on each pistol. But what have surprised me most is that I get much better results with the Glock (at 20m). I did not have all the malfunctions I read about the Mosquito on the Internet. But, for me, it is not easier to learn shooting with a Mosquito than with a Glock 17.
> 
> I am still learning and discovering a lot about pistol shooting on this forum so any comment is welcomed. Thanks in advance.


Just keep doing what you're doing. A handgun is not as forgiving as a rifle with it's drastically shorter sights.
I recall being embarrassed by my first 50 shots as well. Maybe more. It's nice to read posts like this and see that
newcomers to this great sport are taking time to learn, ask questions, and practice. Good for you.


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## black.cap17 (May 12, 2013)

Still learning and practicing. I am getting more consistent results and progress is not real fast but encouraging enough to keep me going back to the range twice a week. I wanted to try a revolver, first time for me. So I rented a S&W 686 plus. It is a beautiful gun. I like this staniless steel look, the front sight with the red ramp, the 7-shot cylinder. I didn't like the black rubber grip but it feels good in hand. I took a 50-box of 38 sp because I am a little wary about the 356 Mag recoil. As I was shooting this gun for the first time, I did not expect any good results and was surprised that I can shoot it better than with my Glock 17. I shot it only SA and at 10m, 15m, and 20m. I guess I still have a lot to discover in the handgun shooting domain and this is the good part of the learning process. Of course I am not rushing to buy a revolver any time soon as I need to concentrate getting better with my Glock 17.


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