# PM9 FTF problems



## Steve S

I've put about 900 rounds through my PM9. I am still getting FTF issues. This past weekend I shot about 75 rounds at the range. The range ammo is PMC 115 gr. Out of the 75 rounds 3 were FTS's.
I am cleaning and lubing as per Kahr's instructions. I also have had FTF's with some Speer LE Gold dot 124g, Federal LE Tact HE 124g and Winchester 9mm Luger 115g range ammo.

I own several Glocks and a KelTec P11 and have no issues with those. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## Steve S

Well it seems as though the only thing to do is to send it back to Kahr.


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## jbailey

*FTF how?*

Please describe FTFs, nose high, nose low, not fully chambered, what? I think some Kahrs are , shall we say, "ammo selective" (at least my CW45 is) concerning, case mouth diameter (crimp, etc), bullet diameter and shape, etc. Don't send it back to Kahr without more specifics, IMO. - John


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## Steve S

Thanks John. I did not keep a record of what you asked regarding the position of the bullet. I am going to the range this week and I will report back all of what you asked.


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## buck32

Shot my PM9 this weekend with Blazer Brass 9mm 115 gr FMJ. 50 rounds no issues. Sorry to hear you are having issues.


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## mrwizardly

Sorry to here your problems, it's the first probs I have heard about the PM-9 (not to say there aren't more). I have shot remanufactured ammo, winchester, remington, and my SD ammo, Hornady critical defense. Since I have had the gun, I have not had any failures, period. I feel totally confident with mine in terms of when I pull the trigger, and firing.
MW


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## recoilguy

I feel bad for you man, If you fell your P11 is a better gun then your Kahr you got a bad one. I hope this clears itself up for yuo best of luck.

RCG


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## texagun

Try something other than PMC. I'll bet it will run like a top. I never had much luck with PMC and avoid it.


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## Steve S

texagun said:


> Try something other than PMC. I'll bet it will run like a top. I never had much luck with PMC and avoid it.


I am not being a smart ass but if you read my post you can see I did try many different brands and types of ammo with the same results.


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## jbailey

*Failures to feed*

Steve - as you know,it's very difficult to diagnose problems via the forums. In my experience, FTF problems are usually magazine related, after you've ruled out cartridge dimensions vs chamber shapes, etc, and slug weight. If I recall correctly, the PM9 has a pretty strong recoil spring and 115g or 124g slugs may not have the energy to correctly cycle the slide. Just food for thought.. Good luck and don't give up easily. - John


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## mrwizardly

> 115g or 124g slugs may not have the energy to correctly cycle the slide.


Again, that's all I use in mine is 115gr ammo. Lately, I have been shooting remanufactured 115gr Zero ammo. I have shot Remington and probably others as well. I would 2nd the thought that possibly it is a magazine problem, these guns are built so well, and I don't believe there is that much to go wrong with them. Mine came with a 2nd magazine (extended) which also shoots perfect. Good luck to you though. Maybe have a gun smith take a quick peek at it.
MW


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## Steve S

Thanks for all of the advice. I will be going to the range tomorrow. If it jams I will take a picture of the chamber. Regarding the magazines, I have 6 factory magazines. Two of which are the 7 rounds. This problems happens with ALL the magazines I try. I would think this should rule-out any mag problems.


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## Cocobolo

I bought a PM9 a few weeks ago. I have fired a little over 200 rounds through it without one FTF. I have fired Federal round nose 115gr FMJ and reloaded 124gr JFP with 4.7gr of WSF through my PM9 without a single problem. Hope you get it figured out soon.


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## gcam

How's your grip? Is it possible you're loosening up as you shoot? That recoil makes the 3 finger hold a challenge especially after extended range time. Could limp wristing or a loose hold be causing the failures? Can't wait to hear how the last visit went. I'm at just under 400 rounds on a new PM9 with not one problem. Bummer if you have a gun that needs work.


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## Steve S

Well I did not get to go to the range today. My wife decided we needed to plant tomatoes. I will probably go this week.
I only shot 75 rounds my last visit and I had 3 failures. The first 2 occurred with the first and second magazines. I do make sure I have a good grip all of the time. My KelTec P11 is a small pistol as well. I never had a FTF with that one after shooting 200 rounds in one visit. I really think there something wrong with my PM9, I just don't know what it is.


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## mrwizardly

If it were me in your position, I would have a gunsmith look at it, or send it back to Kahr for warranty work. I think it is safe to say this would be your "carry gun", and it must be reliable. It would be a hassle to send it back, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Personally, I would buy 4 boxes of 9mm 115gr ammo (200rds of standard target) and shoot them all and keep exact tabs of what happens for a record to report to whoever looks at your gun. I would grind right through the 200 rds and see it there is a pattern developing. I would really expect perfection out of my Kahr if I shot it as I just suggested.
Let us know what you decide to do and the results of that.
MW


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## gcam

The wise MrWizardly---sound advice. A visit to the smiley bank and found this ... :buttkick: It's about how I'd feel right now. I hope Kahr takes care of you. Let us know. GREAT companies would FedEx a new product right away upon receiving a defective unit under warranty. That's what I'd want. That and $200 towards range ammo! Well, and maybe an extra mag. BTW, do your mags drop freely? Mine don't & it's going to mean a chat with Kahr myself although I've read elsewhere they say it's a design attribute. (read that on GlockTalk). Yikes. Not this man.


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## Steve S

That is some great advice. I want this to be my carry weapon but not like it is now. I really love this weapon. I am very accurate with it and it's a breeze to carry. Like suggested I will put another 200 rounds through it and document and take a picture on what happens.
And yes, all of my mags drop freely. Thanks.


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## Steve S

Well I went to the range today and shot about 125 rounds. I had 3 FTF's. It's not really a jam. When it happens all I do is push the slide forward and it chambers the round. My wife has a PM9 and never has a FTF.
Here is a picture of what it looks like. What do you guys think?


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## mrwizardly

Steve,
were your FTF's on the first round of the magazine, or other rounds as well. Some magazines have to be broken in, or even adjusted. The first round of a "full" mag is very tight.
MW


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## Steve S

In that picture it was the first round of the mag. However, the others were not. My wife and I share a set of 6 mags. As I stated before, her PM9 never has this problem. I numbered the mags and the problem does not happen with any specific mag.


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## mrwizardly

Steve,
I don't know how much this helps you, but, this info is from a friend who I talked to regarding your problem.
Failures to feed can be caused by: the extractor, a rough feed ramp, misaligned magazines, damaged or misaligned magazine feed lips.
Tell him to first check the extractor for dirt or grit and ease of movement. Any restriction on the extractor will cause misfeeds. 
MW


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## Steve S

Great advice, I will do this.


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## jimjack

Does your serial number begin with VA? I think these were the first productions and there were some problems.


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## Steve S

No 1B.


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## Steve S

Well I really cleaned the extractor. I am going to try and get to the range again in a couple of days. If it FTF again, I will send it back to Kahr.


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## Steve S

We went to the range today and I had 4 FTF's out of 100 rounds. 3 occurred in the first 50 rounds. 
I can't trust this gun and I will have to send it back to Kahr on Monday. 

Is there anyone specifically I should speak to?


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## Hollander

Try to speak with Ian. He is a sharp guy.


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## Steve S

I spoke to Ian and my PM9 is on it's way back to Kahr. He said the turnaround time is 7 to 10 days.


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## buck32

SteveS, I am sorry to hear you are having issues with your PM9. I have not had this experience with mine. I hope it comes back without any issues and you can enjoy it for the fine handgun it is.


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## mrwizardly

By what I have seen on another post, the turn around time is very quick. I think (and hope) you will get your gun back it perfect working order. It is a great gun, and alot of gun in such a small package. I think the trigger is the best trigger I've owned. 
MW


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## gcam

Sending some hope here. My PM9 has a serial beginning with IB and I'm now at a flawless 600 rounds of mixed ammo. Blown away by the reliability. Sorry you're having such problems. At least we know you're in a serial number range that could/should be more reliable.


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## Steve S

Thanks for all of the messages. I believe this will get fixed and I can resume carrying the PM9. I am now carrying my G26 and it's a bit of a challenge.

I remember when we purchased the two Kahrs. The dealer said, "I have to let you know, you might get a good one or a bad one". I really didn't believe him but I guess he was right. The one I purchased for my wife is flawless.

I think the turn-around time is great. About a year ago when I owned a KelTec P11 some spring broke and I had to send it back. It took 3 months to get it back. I think the reason for that is KelTec's need more repairs than Kahr's. 

Anyway, I know things will work out. Merry Christmas.


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## wagon

Steve, who;s your dealer? I want to buy from him :mrgreen:... what he said shows that he doesn't BS and he KNOWS his sh8t! You should stick with him on future purchase(s).

Merry Christmas!



Steve S said:


> I remember when we purchased the two Kahrs. The dealer said, "I have to let you know, you might get a good one or a bad one". I really didn't believe him but I guess he was right. The one I purchased for my wife is flawless.


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## jimjack

Steve S said:


> Thanks for all of the messages. I believe this will get fixed and I can resume carrying the PM9. I am now carrying my G26 and it's a bit of a challenge.


I keep my G26 in the console of my car. I've never carried it since I've had the PM9.

I also sometimes carry an 11.5 oz. S&W 360pd in a Hume inside-the-pants holster. Don't even know it's there. The Glock, for me, is a different story for carry.


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## Steve S

Actually, we purchase all of our weapons at our shooting range, Palm Beach Shooting Center. They are extremely helpful and the will match any price I find on the net. They even offered to send the PM9 back for me but I just sent it myself. 

As far as my G26 goes, I am finding it not too bad to carry. We are in shorts and tee shirts down here most of the year. I have a DeSantis IWB holster, I can't remember the name of it but it conceals my G26 pretty well.


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## Steve S

Well I got my PM9 back today from Kahr. That was really fast. They replaced the Extractor, Recoil Spring and they polished parts as needed. They lubed and test fired and wrote that everything was fine.

I won't be able to test it until next Sunday. I got my fingers crossed.


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## mrwizardly

> Well I got my PM9 back today from Kahr. That was really fast. They replaced the Extractor, Recoil Spring and they polished parts as needed. They lubed and test fired and wrote that everything was fine.
> I won't be able to test it until next Sunday. I got my fingers crossed.


Great to hear you got it back, I am confident that the gun will be fine now(keep fingers crossed).
Ironically, I just purchased a S&W m&p pro and it has barrel issues. It has to be sent back to S&W :smt022 for repairs. So you are not alone in the "problems with new guns". Strangely, I own several manf's of hg's, and two of them are Smith's, and both had to be sent back to the factory a couple days after buying them. It's hard to do, but must be done. It's like taking a toy away from a little kid after he plays with it for only a short time. That's life, though.
Good luck, MrWiz


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## buck32

Steve S. we will be waiting for your NEW range report.:smt033


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## Steve S

Well it's Saturday and I just got back from the range. To say I am pissed off is an understatement. I loaded my first mag of 6 and fired with no issues. When I reloaded the same mag with another 6, the problems started. These issues are worse than I originally had before I sent this PM9 to Kahr for repair.

It fired the first round of the 2nd clip with no problem. I pressed the trigger on the 2nd round and nothing.
I took the mag out and had a hell of a time getting the live round out of the chamber.

Once I cleared it I tried the process over again with a different type of ammo and the same thing happened.
This time when I dropped the mag and tried to pull the slide back a thin metal shaving dropped down.

I tried to fire again and this same thing happened. It would fire the 1st round and when I pulled the trigger for the 2nd round, nothing.

So now I have to call Kahr again and send this POS back. If for some reason I get it back the next time with more issues, I am going to demand that they replace my 5 month old PM9 that's had problems from day 1.


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## mrwizardly

> Well it's Saturday and I just got back from the range. To say I am pissed off is an understatement.


Wow, I can only say, "I am surprised". I say you should tell Kahr to buy this one back from you, and give you a new one. That just ain't right. I would be on the phone with Kahr ASAP and give them a piece of my mind. But remember, "When anger rises, think of the consequences".
Best to you, MW


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## Steve S

I know I was pissed off when I got home but that will get me nowhere when I call them. I will be civil but firm.


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## wagon

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with your PM9. I can feel for you. 

I do wish you luck in working this out with Kahr, they should make good out of it, however .... I have a feeling that it may not be easy ... :

about 2 months ago I had an issue with the barrel where the plated Ni coating was flaking off. They replaced the barrel with a bad barrel (didn't even fit the slide,a nd some pother machining defects), I wrote a letter to 3 managers/VPs to complaine about their lack of quality assurance... At the end of the day, they made me send back the complete gun (at their cost) and replace the barrel again.. of course, fitment is guaranteed this time ... but you know what? NONE of these senior personnel I wrote to replied me.. not a word.

For the past 25+ years I have worked in well regarded orginaizations (in their respective industries), when we have a customer wrote a complaint letter, there will be always be a response from us... not in the case of Kahr. My experience made me to reset my expectation and my respect on them.

Nice gun, PROVIDED you got the luck of draw that the one you took home is a working piece.

Once again, I hope your problem will be properly and professionally taken care of.


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## Steve S

I don't understand companies like this. I am pretty high up the food chain for the 2nd largest company in the world. If a customer writes a letter to any executive, they call them back. Taking care of the Customer is number one in our Mission Statement.

I am going to try and speak to Ian and get some answers on Monday. I am back to carrying my G26. That's pretty easy now that it's 35 degrees in West Palm and we are wearing snow parkas.


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## Steve S

Well I sent it back today FedEx Priority Overnight. I spoke to Shawn on the telephone. I told him how long I've been having problems with this PM9 (since day 1). He really did not have anything to say except to send it back.
I think the Ejector is messed up this time. Hopefully I will have it back soon and working.


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## buck32

Steve keep us posted on this issue as I am curious how Kahr will or won't end up resolving your problem.

Thanks, buck32.


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## Steve S

Well I got a call today from Shawn at Kahr. He told me that they fired 4 magazines and could not reproduce my problem. He did say that they were having a problem with the mag falling down during shooting that they were working on.

I was kind of speechless for a minute or so. Before I sent it to them I could not get 2 rounds off in succession. I never had a problem with mags falling down.

I asked him to have them change the ejector anyway and he said O.K.

What do you guys make of this?


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## mrwizardly

> What do you guys make of this?


I don't think anybody is lying, but that doesn't help the situation. I can only think that they are using different ammo then yours? It doesn't sound right about the metal shaving you said fell out? I would be a little pisssed right now and want it fixed, or don't send it back to you. WTF?
MW


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## Steve S

He asked me what ammo I was using and I said what I can get at the range, PMC 115gr. He did not say anything about it. I went on to say my wife uses the same ammo in her PM9 with no issues.
I asked what they were using to test fire and he told me Remington UMC. 

My wife was out shopping today and I asked her to stop by Dick's Sporting Goods and see what they have. Well she found 5 boxes of Remington UMC and 5 of some American Eagle.

When I get this thing back, I will use the UMC. If all goes well, I will try my SD ammo which is Fed LE Tactical Hydra-Shok and Speer LE Gold Dot 147gr.

I am going to bring a video camera to the range and film all of this crap so if something should happen I will send this PM9 back to them again with a DVD for their viewing and demand a new weapon. What a pain in the ass this has been.


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## wagon

Steve,

what are the chances to send them 10~12 of PMC that you've been shooting? Just a thought...

Good luck.


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## recoilguy

Steve S said:


> He asked me what ammo I was using and I said what I can get at the range, PMC 115gr. He did not say anything about it. I went on to say my wife uses the same ammo in her PM9 with no issues.
> I asked what they were using to test fire and he told me Remington UMC.
> 
> My wife was out shopping today and I asked her to stop by Dick's Sporting Goods and see what they have. Well she found 5 boxes of Remington UMC and 5 of some American Eagle.
> 
> When I get this thing back, I will use the UMC. If all goes well, I will try my SD ammo which is Fed LE Tactical Hydra-Shok and Speer LE Gold Dot 147gr.
> 
> I am going to bring a video camera to the range and film all of this crap so if something should happen I will send this PM9 back to them again with a DVD for their viewing and demand a new weapon. What a pain in the ass this has been.


That is an unbelievable story. I just read this thread, you are a patient man!!!!!!

The gun better work perfect this time or I would be crazy mad! I carry a Kahr and have never had one problem ever. I am not sure if I ha dyour problems I would have been as tolerant as you have been. Good luck to you. This is bad on Kahr in my opinion.

RCG


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## Steve S

The funny thing is my wife says I have little patience. I can be a hot headed Sicilian when I have to. Being in the Corporate arena for over 25 years, you learn some things about Customer service.

I felt as though it would have been counter-productive to go off on them up until now. The end game is I went my PM9 in 100% working condition.

Having said all of that, if I get this gun back and it still has problems, I am afraid I will have to go off on them.

I think if it has to go back again, I will send a video of any failures and send them a box of this range ammo but still demand they send me a new weapon.


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## Steve S

Well about 10 minutes ago FedEx just delivered my PM9. The report says, " replaced ejector, mag catch. Lubed test fired good".

I will probably go to the range tomorrow, this should be fun.


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## recoilguy

Good luck man I hope it works as well as your wifes gun, when its working good it is one sweet weapon!!!!

RCG


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## Steve S

I mentioned that I just got my PM9 back from Kahr for the second time. I just got back from the range and I fired the following type and quantity of ammo:

Remington UMC 115g 35 rounds
Fed Hydra Shok 124g 30 rounds
PMC 115g 100 rounds

*I had NO ISSUES!!!!!!!.*

This is the first trip to the range that was problem free.

The Kahr service report stated that they replaced the Ejector, and the Mag Catch.

After returning from the range I opened it up to clean and lube. Much to my surprise they gave me a totally new slide assembly. I am very happy to have a working PM9 but I don't understand why they wouldn't tell me they gave me a new entire slide assembly?

I now feel confident in using this PM9 as my primary carry weapon.


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## buck32

(Holds breath) Woo Hoo!!!!


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## wagon

Congrat, Steve! Let's just say... "just keep it that way..." :smt038

IMHO, part of the (high) price of Kahr is to cover their (high) warranty costs, they just keep replacement the parts .... at the end of the day, one of them will eventually get the problem fixed.. :anim_lol:


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## recoilguy

Cool that took a while but I for one am glad you had a trip that had no issues....enjoy!!!

RCG


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## Steve S

Thanks for all of the messages through this 5 month ordeal. When I was shooting it yesterday I could feel a difference in the weapon. It was more snappy than in the past. It felt like a new weapon. And like I said when I opened it to clean it, I saw the brand new entire slide assembly. It all makes sense now on why the weapon felt so good at the range.

I have to say this about Kahr service, they are FAST. I sent this weapon to them on Tuesday and I had it back on Friday. Shawn even called my house to tell me what they found. 

I could have sent this weapon in earlier, but all along I was thinking it just needs a good break-in to fix this. So I guess if someone is having problems after 200 rounds, just send it in.


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## buck32

Glad to hear they have taken care of you, SteveS.


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## Steve S

I called them back this week to let them know my PM9 is working fine. I think they appreciated my phone call.


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## Tackman2

Steve S said:


> I called them back this week to let them know my PM9 is working fine. I think they appreciated my phone call.


I'm here to tell you all of us with a PM9 appreciate your phone call. You make us all look good.
For what it's worth, I have a VAxxxx that was on the recall list years ago, and I've never had a problem with it.


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## archull

I have been seeing a handful of people having these problems. They have continuously returned the guns to Kahr and they have never resolved the issues as of yet. Kahr just keeps sending the guns back as is.


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## Glenn-SC

archull said:


> ... they have never resolved the issues as of yet. Kahr just keeps sending the guns back as is.


Did I miss something?

Didn't Steve say that the gun is working just fine now? That he called Kahr and said so?


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## archull

Glenn-SC said:


> Did I miss something?
> 
> Didn't Steve say that the gun is working just fine now? That he called Kahr and said so?


I wasn't speaking about the thread starter. I am talking about a couple of guys locally that I personally know that had issues with their PM9's.


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## Watwood

Let's go ahead and bump this thread as I, just like Steve S, am having frequent FTFs. This gun is a VCXXXX gun. It was bought at Gander Mtn. in Huntsville, AL brand new on Thanksgiving Day 09. It left Kahr in July of 2006...

A quick explanation of my FTF: After the bullet is fired and the slide comes back to pull another bullet from the magazine it stops about 0.05-0.1 inch from its most forward position and in turn fails to fire. If I simply reach up with my thumb and push it forward the remaining 0.05-0.1 inch it fires like normal. But, this will make a person that that spent the kind of money I did on the "best" CC gun go absolutely nuts.

When I first got the gun it would do it with random bullets in the magazine, now it most frequently does it with the 2nd from the bottom bullet in the 6 round magazine. I took it back to Gander as they have their year warranty, they were able to replicate the problem, and they stayed on the phone with a guy from Kahr for a good 30 minutes talking it over and he gave them an explanation of "You have to chamber the first round from the magazine, then release the magazine and fill the 6 remaining bullets in the magazine and fire because of such tight tolerances, etc." They did this and said it worked fine... But, they only shot maybe 25 bullets through it quickly.

What I've noticed: When I'm at the range and trying to hit a target dead on, I'm doing the old "pull the trigger slowly so the gun scares you when it goes off" routine. This cause much more FTFs than if I pull the trigger with a more abrupt motion (in both force and speed).

So, what could the slide get caught on 0.05-0.1" from it's most forward position?

Also the FTFs only seem to happen on range ammo, (American Eagle 124 gr or Blazer Brass 115gr). It seems to happen very rarely Gold Dot hollow pts.


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## texagun

Watwood:
I have a VCXXXX gun too. It took a couple of hundred rounds through it before it was reliable to the point I could trust it. Since then it has been perfect. I think Kahr recommends 400 rounds to break one in. Since your gun was made in 2006 it was probably used when you bought it and you may be unaware of the round count through it. I would recommend a new recoil spring assembly as your spring could be well-worn (if it was a used gun) and that would prevent the gun from going into battery. Call Kahr and explain the situation to them. Maybe they will send you a new spring assembly. Welcome to the forum.


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## Watwood

texagun said:


> Steve,
> I have a VCXXXX gun too. It took a couple of hundred rounds through it before it was reliable to the point I could trust it. Since then it has been perfect. I think Kahr recommends 400 rounds to break one in. Since your gun was made in 2006 it was probably used when you bought it and you may be unaware of the round count through it. I would recommend a new recoil spring assembly as your spring could be well-worn (if it was a used gun) and that would prevent the gun from going into battery. Call Kahr and explain the situation to them. Maybe they will send you a new spring assembly. Welcome to the forum.


Are you talking to me or Steve S. My gun might have come off of the assembly line in the summer of 2006, but it was brand new in 2009, not used. I have at least 500 rounds through mine at this time.


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## texagun

Watwood said:


> Are you talking to me or Steve S. My gun might have come off of the assembly line in the summer of 2006, but it was brand new in 2009, not used. I have at least 500 rounds through mine at this time.


I was talking to you regarding your gun. Got the name wrong. If it was brand new and you have 500 rounds through it, I would talk to Kahr. They will most likely have you send it in and look at it. Hopefully they will fix it. Sometimes they are hit or miss. Let us know how it works out. You might want to start a new thread on your issues.


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## Steve S

Yes please start a new thread. My issues are over. My PM9 fires anything I put through it now. I have 100% confidence in this weapon and is my main carry firearm.


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