# Interesting video for left eyed right hand handgun shooters



## Cait43 (Apr 4, 2013)

Addressing Cross Dominance by Gomez-Training.com - YouTube


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

I train using the slightly bent forward isosceles stance with both eyes fully open and focused on that front sight. There is much merit to this, not only for sight picture and alignment, but also because I want both of my eyes taking in as much as possible what's going on around and in front of me. When you squint or close one eye then reopen it, there is a small amount of time that eye has to take to refocus. That and the fact that you lose vision from that closed eye.

I have been doing this for so long that it is completely natural to me with no thought involved. I want my eyes taking in as much information as possible so that I can react with my firearm accordingly. Loosing one, even for a second or two, just is not in the picture for me.


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## VAMarine (Dec 25, 2008)

Southern, that's all well and good but this video is about left eye dominant, right handed shooters...or being cross-dominant. For those of us that are cross dominant it's not that easy as we don't get proper sight picture without getting the sights more in line with our dominant eye.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

VAMarine said:


> Southern, that's all well and good but this video is about left eye dominant, right handed shooters...or being cross-dominant. For those of us that are cross dominant it's not that easy as we don't get proper sight picture without getting the sights more in line with our dominant eye.


Yes sir, I got that. Just adding a thought to the mix.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

There's a lot of opposite eye squinting in that video. I consider vision to be very personal, particular, and subjective to each individual shooter. What works for one individual is not, necessarily, going to work for another. For decades, now, I've had the ability to focus with either one of my eyes. I'm, also, ambidextrous; and I will instinctively use whichever eye immediately lines up with the hand that I'm using. How do I switch my brain over to the other side? I momentarily squint with the eye that I'm not using; after that I'm good-to-go. 

I couldn't help, but to, notice that Gomez's technique of keeping his head stationary and moving only his arms and the gun would have worked a lot better if he'd gotten out of his, 'Modified Weaver' grip and stance, and switched to a more natural and easier to use, 'Reverse Chapman' grip and stance. A, 'Reverse Chapman' grip would have negated the need for him to more deliberately turn his head, as well as the tendency to misalign his front sight at the pistol comes up. 

The, 'Reverse Chapman' grip and stance is how D.R. Middlebrooks conducts and teaches pistol shooting. In my opinion, the man is a pistoleering genius who's, 'light years' ahead of most other modern two-handed pistol shooters! (Right-handed shooters, also, have much less of a tendency to throw shots to the left; AND the same is true for left-handed shooters doing the same thing to the right.) 

Me? I made the switch to using the, 'Reverse Chapman' grip and stance about three years ago, now; and I've been kicking myself ever since for not figuring this out sooner.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Glock Doctor said:


> There's a lot of opposite eye squinting in that video. I consider vision to be very personal, particular, and subjective to each individual shooter. What works for one individual is not, necessarily, going to work for another. For decades, now, I've had the ability to focus with either one of my eyes. I'm, also, ambidextrous; and I will instinctively use whichever eye immediately lines up with the hand that I'm using. How do I switch my brain over to the other side? I momentarily squint with the eye that I'm not using; after that I'm good-to-go.
> 
> I couldn't help, but to, notice that Gomez's technique of keeping his head stationary and moving only his arms and the gun would have worked a lot better if he'd gotten out of his, 'Modified Weaver' grip and stance, and switched to a more natural and easier to use, 'Reverse Chapman' grip and stance. A, 'Reverse Chapman' grip would have negated the need for him to more deliberately turn his head, as well as the tendency to misalign his front sight at the pistol comes up.
> 
> ...


I've never heard of the 'Reverse Chapman' grip and stance but in doing a little research just now, I find that the stance I mostly employ is a cross between a Chapman and an isosceles. Think isosceles but with the body bent a little and pitched forward with the passive leg/foot (left for me since I am right handed) more forward than the right. The stance appears aggressive in nature and allows for better forward movement where necessary, yet my arms are locked at the elbows and in a decidedly isosceles position.I found this video of a group of shooters in a class with the instructor (Massad Ayoob) calling out for six shots each in Weaver, Chapman, and isosceles.

Now I ask you. Is this a reasonably good representation of the Reverse Chapman stance? And another question. How about the stance that I described which I use.... where would you put this in your lists of stances. I have been referring to it for several years as simple the isosceles stance, but now I'm not so certain having seen this video and reading a few things.

Thanks,
SB


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## DJ Niner (Oct 3, 2006)

I'm cross-dominant, have always been so in my handgun shooting.

What I heard from the video was that this and that won't work because it's not "natural", and you can't depend on your previous training to work during a stressful situation. Then he tells us to train to get the gun in-line with the dominant eye during the drawstroke to avoid this problem. You can't train yourself to reliably tilt or rotate your head 10-15 degrees, but you CAN train yourself to cross your body with the gun during the drawstroke, putting the gun farther out of alignment with the strong-hand forearm/wrist, and bring it up underneath the weak-side eyeball?

Not buying it.

No one is born with a handgun in their hand; using guns for defense is never "natural", it's ALL trained. I've always agreed with the basic thought that you don't want to fight the body's reaction to stress (squaring-up to the threat, etc.), unless and until you get to the point where you HAVE to, to get the gun on target. And my experience with vision and shooting is that cross-dominant shooters with any experience are already used to getting their eye behind the gun/sights as it comes up on target. Cross-dominant shooters are not just cross-dominant in shooting; they use their "master" eye hundreds (thousands?) of times each day to unconsciously line-up items other than pistol sights, and do other detailed vision-related work. It no-doubt feels weird ("unnatural") to him because (I assume) he's not cross-dominant. For us, if you've been shooting that way for X years, any change like the one he is championing means you're going to be fighting both your natural instincts AND X years of training repetitions, which just isn't a recipe for success. This might be useful for new shooters (and then again, it might not), but for anyone with more than 2-3 years of shooting training/drills, it's not going to help, it's going to hurt, forcing their mind and body to make an unnecessary extra decision between more recent and older programmed training motions, rather than getting on to dealing with the situation at hand.

And for those of us with 3+ decades of previous training, drills, and competitions, well, it gives a whole new definition to the phrase "waste of time".


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

DJ Niner said:


> I'm cross-dominant, have always been so in my handgun shooting.
> 
> What I heard from the video was that this and that won't work because it's not "natural", and you can't depend on your previous training to work during a stressful situation. Then he tells us to train to get the gun in-line with the dominant eye during the drawstroke to avoid this problem. You can't train yourself to reliably tilt or rotate your head 10-15 degrees, but you CAN train yourself to cross your body with the gun during the drawstroke, putting the gun farther out of alignment with the strong-hand forearm/wrist, and bring it up underneath the weak-side eyeball?
> 
> ...


Good points, all.

I'm not cross-dominant so I haven't a clue how all of this would work for me. And I shoot a handgun with both eyes wide open so squinting is out of the question. I would have to re-learn and re-train myself to do anything differently than what I do now. I'll be hitting the range this morning with that neighbor friend with whom I go every two weeks. We will do our usual drills, plus a few thrown in for fun and exercise. I know today we will most likely be concentrating on strong hand/weak hand drills and probably multiple targets for draw and fire drills.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

SouthernBoy said:


> ....... Now I ask you. Is this a reasonably good representation of the Reverse Chapman stance? And another question. How about the stance that I described which I use.... where would you put this in your lists of stances. I have been referring to it for several years as simple the isosceles stance, but now I'm not so certain having seen this video and reading a few things.
> 
> Thanks,
> SB


Here's Middlebrooks demonstrating the, 'Reverse Chapman' grip/stance:



















Here's his website. (The lectures are well worth listening to.) http://www.tacticalshooting.com/videos

I'm going to stay with my original statement: '_I consider vision to be very personal, particular, and subjective to each individual shooter. What works for one individual is not, necessarily, going to work for another._' When I was new at teaching I used to do exactly what the NRA manual says; and I tried to turn cross-eye dominant shooters around. It never really worked. Then slowly, but surely, I began to realize that no two vision problems - like no two individual shooters - were ever quite the same. Today, unless a shooter were to specifically ask me for help I wouldn't even bother teaching any of the usual remedies for cross-eye dominance.


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## SouthernBoy (Jun 27, 2007)

Glock Doctor said:


> Here's Middlebrooks demonstrating the, 'Reverse Chapman' grip/stance:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the video links. This gentleman does an excellent job of clarifying the commonly used stances. After watching the first one I now know that for years, actually nearly all of my handgun shooting years, I was using a stance best described as the Chapman stance (not reverse) due to the fact that I would lock my right elbow (shooting arm) and crook my left elbow with an edged stance common to the Weaver stance. I would lock my right elbow for a straight right arm to increase the distance between my eyes and my sights. I still do this when using the "Weaver" stance, which I now know is the Chapman stance, thank you. While the Weaver and the Chapman stances are very close, this video shows where the differences exist.

Very interesting. I have been doing this all along since the late 1960's and now I know it was much more in line with the Chapman stance.


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## Glock Doctor (Mar 14, 2011)

The, 'Chapman' grip and stance is also called, 'Modified Weaver'. 

Stance | Cornered Cat 

'_Because the ideal Chapman stance involves sighting directly down the shooter's dominant arm, CROSS-EYE DOMINANCE remains a minor issue in Chapman just as it is in Weaver._' (These ladies know what they're talking about!)


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