# The dreaded tell.



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

New York requires that the concealed carry holders' guns remain concealed. If it is exposed you can get arrested for disturbing the peace, and you can lose your license to carry.

So at all times I try to make my carrying as inconspicuous as possible.

But the other day as I was leaving Starbucks I pulled my gloves from my jacket pocket and heard the unmistakable sound of a brass casing tinkling on the ground. I quickly picked it up. No one else seemed to notice; or if they did, they did not recognize the sound.

I had gone shooting earlier and the range was still chilly so I left on my jacket which has patch pockets. Apparently one of the shell casings hit the ceiling in the range house and bounced into my pocket.

So now when I leave the range I am checking my pockets!


----------



## bengewarmer (Nov 7, 2011)

Damn, that had to be a shitty few seconds lol. Are you in the city or somewhere else in NYS?


----------



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

bengewarmer said:


> Damn, that had to be a shitty few seconds lol. Are you in the city or somewhere else in NYS?


I live about 90 miles north of NYC. And my carry is perfectly legal in that situation. Of course we all know the exact sound that brass makes when it hits ceramic or concrete. But most civilians do not. I'm pretty sure I was the only one who recognized the sound.

But yeah, it was a pretty shitty few seconds there.


----------



## bengewarmer (Nov 7, 2011)

It's interesting how that sound can go completely unnoticed by most and be completely unmistakable to us. I'd like to get a carry but I'm in NYC so no chance there. Moving doesn't seem like the worst idea...


----------



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

bengewarmer said:


> It's interesting how that sound can go completely unnoticed by most and be completely unmistakable to us. I'd like to get a carry but I'm in NYC so no chance there. Moving doesn't seem like the worst idea...


You live and work in New York City?


----------



## bengewarmer (Nov 7, 2011)

My whole life. Bleh. haha


----------



## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

As long as your pistol was concealed, dropping brass isn't a big deal I'd think. Not illegal anyway. 

I've dug change out of my jacket pocket that had a casing mixed in on rare occasions. Either the teller didn't recognize what it was, didn't care, or didn't notice it. Maybe it's just a different mindset here at the other end of the state.


----------



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

MLB said:


> As long as your pistol was concealed, dropping brass isn't a big deal I'd think. Not illegal anyway.
> 
> I've dug change out of my jacket pocket that had a casing mixed in on rare occasions. Either the teller didn't recognize what it was, didn't care, or didn't notice it. Maybe it's just a different mindset here at the other end of the state.


It's just paranoia on my part. When I am hiding something (which we do as carry concealed license holders) my mindset becomes a little paranoid. I don't want to do anything that draws attention to myself. I drive more carefully. I speed less dramatically. I try to live a lower profile life (which is difficult because I'm so damned good looking). The tinkle of the casing, which probably was not heard by anyone but me, sounded like a thunderclap.

Just another day in the life of a paranoid carry concealed license holder.


----------



## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

Packard said:


> New York requires that the concealed carry holders' guns remain concealed. If it is exposed you can get arrested for disturbing the peace, and you can lose your license to carry.
> 
> So at all times I try to make my carrying as inconspicuous as possible.
> 
> ...


We call that a (Head rush) What is a Head rush-a medical symptom of a balance disorder...:smt1099


----------



## crescentstar69 (Sep 24, 2011)

I don't think the average Joe pays attention or knows the difference. It amazes me how many people seem to suffer from chronic craniorectal insertion. I notice EVERYTHING around me, but after 20+ years in law enforcement I suppose that is normal.


----------



## Cat (Apr 12, 2011)

crescentstar69 said:


> I don't think the average Joe pays attention or knows the difference. It amazes me how many people seem to suffer from chronic craniorectal insertion. I notice EVERYTHING around me, but after 20+ years in law enforcement I suppose that is normal.


 You got that right..:smt1099


----------



## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

Packard said:


> It's just paranoia on my part. When I am hiding something (which we do as carry concealed license holders) my mindset becomes a little paranoid. I don't want to do anything that draws attention to myself. I drive more carefully. I speed less dramatically. I try to live a lower profile life (which is difficult because I'm so damned good looking). The tinkle of the casing, which probably was not heard by anyone but me, sounded like a thunderclap.
> 
> Just another day in the life of a paranoid carry concealed license holder.


I think that's good practice in general though Packard. While carrying a firearm puts you at an advantage in a life or death situation, I feel that it is a disadvantage at any lower scale confrontation. Something minor like a "pushing match" over an insult at a party takes on a whole different light when it is discovered that one guy (you) brought a gun to the conflict. It won't look good for us if things get out of hand.

Better to stay low-key like you described.


----------



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

MLB said:


> I think that's good practice in general though Packard. While carrying a firearm puts you at an advantage in a life or death situation, I feel that it is a disadvantage at any lower scale confrontation. Something minor like a "pushing match" over an insult at a party takes on a whole different light when it is discovered that one guy (you) brought a gun to the conflict. It won't look good for us if things get out of hand.
> 
> Better to stay low-key like you described.


I carry pepper spray too. Not every situation calls for a firearm.


----------



## MLB (Oct 4, 2006)

You're one of the few people I've talked to (that can carry a firearm) that also choose to carry a pepper spray. I believe we are in the minority.


----------



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

MLB said:


> You're one of the few people I've talked to (that can carry a firearm) that also choose to carry a pepper spray. I believe we are in the minority.


It boils down to logistics. If you get in an argument and the guy gets physical and you draw your weapon to diffuse the situation, he calls the cops. You make a report and kill an entire afternoon (and they might hold your weapon pending an investigation). Even if he does not call the cops, a witness could easily decide to do that anyway.

That same situation arises, you pepper spray the guy and you walk away.

Even a jerk with a knife can be dealt with with pepper spray. You can legally use deadly physical force but then you are in the middle of a legal predicament.

But note, the keychain versions only shoot about 6 feet and are not worth carrying. The canister ones will shoot 12 feet and that is an effective distance for dealing with knives. If it doesn't work you can always shoot him.

Not every situation calls for the use of a firearm. If that were the case cops would not carry batons or pepper spray or tasers. They'd just shoot everyone. But police shootings are down in NYC, probably because the cops have other effective options.


----------



## kg333 (May 19, 2008)

Packard said:


> It boils down to logistics. If you get in an argument and the guy gets physical and you draw your weapon to diffuse the situation, he calls the cops. You make a report and kill an entire afternoon (and they might hold your weapon pending an investigation). Even if he does not call the cops, a witness could easily decide to do that anyway.
> 
> That same situation arises, you pepper spray the guy and you walk away.
> 
> Even a jerk with a knife can be dealt with with pepper spray. You can legally use deadly physical force but then you are in the middle of a legal predicament.


Those are very good points...I may have to look into getting some pepper spray. It'd be particularly handy for going out to the bar, since it's a legal no-weapons zone.

KG


----------



## Packard (Aug 24, 2010)

kg333 said:


> Those are very good points...I may have to look into getting some pepper spray. It'd be particularly handy for going out to the bar, since it's a legal no-weapons zone.
> 
> KG


Avoid the key chain versions. They only shoot about 6 feet and that is too close to allow a guy with a knife.

I carry this one: Sabre Red Pepper Spray | SABRE Red H2O

They can fill this same canister with a variety of quantities of spray. In New York it is legal for me to carry up to 2.2 ounces (about 20 seconds of spray). If your jurisdiction allows the larger quantity get it. The canister will be the same size regardless. When you order the stuff the vendor will notify you if you've ordered a too-large volume and will suggest an appropriate one for you. One second in the eyes or two seconds on the forehead dripping down to the eyes will incapacitate an assailant for up to 45 minutes. If they wear glasses you spray for the forehead.

Also get the "inert" spray bottle to correspond with the active one. It allows you to practice and learn the shooting distances. Any sprayer that does not offer an inert version is not worth buying. The inert version costs $11.00.

Every 6 months or so give the spray a 1/2 second burst (outdoors); just enough to determine that it still retains the range. After doing that run the nozzle under hot water to make sure it remains clear. The spray is a bit gooey, I think because of the orange dye. At any rate examine the nozzle often and if you see any orange run the nozzle under hot water to clear it. It would be a bad day if you needed the O.C. spray and the nozzle was clogged.

The use of this is legal in New York as long as you are using it for a legal purpose. If the guy has a Rolex and you use it to steal the watch you might be in big trouble, but in your own defense or someone else's defense you are fine (in NY). Also this is not deadly physical force. So if you feel threatened you can be a bit quicker on the trigger than with a gun.

As a sidebar the asshole will have an orange face for 3 to 5 days. Cops will see him and ask lots of questions. (A wife might have some questions of her own.)

I've given mine away more often than I've used it. A friend (all women) who mentions that she is afraid of someone will get mine right from my pocket. When I get a chance I will hand her an inert practice bottle. (I keep a couple on hand as spare both of the spray and the inert spray).


----------

