# Home Defense ???



## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

:numbchuck: Does anybody out there use a AR for Home Defense??:rip: I am thinking about getting a 9mm one for home defense and down at the indoor range I go to. Having 30 rounds would be real nice in the middle of the night if the :smt166 hit fan.:smt023 :smt1099 :smt023


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

For home defense I would take my shotgun, hands down. :smt023


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

I'll agree with gunut on this one. IMO a pump action shotgun is the ultimate inside the home defensive arm.


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## bpranney (Jan 26, 2007)

Shotgun all the way. Nothing is more intimidating than hearing someone pump that first round into the chamber, espically in the dead of night when it's quiet


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## Waffen (Feb 8, 2006)

+1 for the shotgun... And if that doesn't work the 357mag on the nighstand should finish the job..

W


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## rfawcs (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm not so sure racking a pump-action shotgun would scare the bejejus out of an intruder with the gonads to break into an occupied residence at night, but most people would agree that an 18- or 20-inch barrel shotgun is an excellent choice for home defense.

If you want a 9mm carbine, I suggest the Beretta CX-9, especially if you have a Beretta 92 handgun, as they use the same magazines. It's shorter than an AR-15 carbine with the stock collapsed, so it would be easier to manuever indoors. You can put enough rails on it to hang all the lights, NV, lasers, etc. that you want. They also make it in .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

Here's a link to compare overall lengths. Top to bottom are my 20-inch Mossberg 590A1, Beretta CX-9, AR-15 w/ 16-inch barrel and the stock collapsed, and AR-15 SBR with an 11.5-inch barrel and ACE stock. The AR-15 SBR and the Beretta CX-9 are about the same overall length.



If you want to see what to expect from 9mm and .223 wall penetration when shooting indoors, check here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Good shooting!


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Hey rfawcs thanks for all the good info. I am going up and check it out now.


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

I think, especially in the coming times, using an AR for home defense is going to cause more petty issues than it is worth. A guy I used to work with used his one time to defend against a guy who got into his home and it took him several months and a lot of money to get the AR back from the ATF even though he didn't even hit the guy. Once my shotgun comes that will be my home defense weapon.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

YEP! A shotgun is my first choice too but I was just wondering if anybody did use one and what they thought the advantage might be. Guess nobody here uses one.


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## A_J (May 22, 2006)

I live in an apartment, so overpenetration is a big consideration for me.. thus I leans towards the shotty - but you can even overpenatrate drywall with 00 buck.

Now if and when I live in the woods, AR all the way. But in any setting with other innocents anywhere nearby, pistol or shotgun, IMO.


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## rob61590 (Dec 21, 2006)

+1 for A shotgun.


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## S&W Tiger (Feb 9, 2007)

*I hope you don't find an assailant that knows Judo!*

Most home defense are at close distance...a guy that knows Judo will take your shotgun away from you...and I hope that you know where everybody that lives in the house is...BEFORE you fire your shotgun!!!:smt1099


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## SuckLead (Jul 4, 2006)

S&W Tiger said:


> Most home defense are at close distance...a guy that knows Judo will take your shotgun away from you...and I hope that you know where everybody that lives in the house is...BEFORE you fire your shotgun!!!:smt1099


Well, you could say the same for a handgun, too. And an AR.


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## nukehayes (Sep 22, 2006)

Someday I want an M-4 carbine with a short barreled, stockless shotgun slung under the barrel. I'm sure I will have some hoops to jump through to get it, but it would be the best of both worlds. :mrgreen: :smt023


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

S&W Tiger said:


> Most home defense are at close distance...a guy that knows Judo will take your shotgun away from you...and I hope that you know where everybody that lives in the house is...BEFORE you fire your shotgun!!!:smt1099


 He dang well better move in a flash because I am shooting on site. There will be no put'em up or freeze, as I will shoot on site. He better be real good to out do a bullet.:smt171


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## -gunut- (May 8, 2006)

I got a chance to shoot the gun in question the other day (select fire).

I was not very impressed. In single shot it almost seemed to recoil more than .223, but it is more controllable than .223 in full-auto. I would still say you should just go for a shotgun.

Here are some pics


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## jwkimber45 (May 6, 2006)

S&W Tiger said:


> Most home defense are at close distance...a guy that knows Judo will take your shotgun away from you...and I hope that you know where everybody that lives in the house is...BEFORE you fire your shotgun!!!:smt1099


The same is possibly true of any weapon. What would you suggest would be a better firearm to defend against "Judo":smt171

Personally When defending my home and family against a band of ninjas I can't think of anything better than a 12ga or two and a couple cases of #4 buck......:numbchuck:


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## 2400 (Feb 4, 2006)

jwkimber45 said:


> The same is possibly true of any weapon. What would you suggest would be a better firearm to defend against "Judo":smt171
> 
> Personally When defending my home and family against a band of ninjas I can't think of anything better than a 12ga or two and a couple cases of #4 buck......:numbchuck:


+1

I'd use #1 Buck myself though. :smt023 :smt033


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## S&W Tiger (Feb 9, 2007)

jwkimber45 said:


> The same is possibly true of any weapon. What would you suggest would be a better firearm to defend against "Judo":smt171
> 
> Personally When defending my home and family against a band of ninjas I can't think of anything better than a 12ga or two and a couple cases of #4 buck......:numbchuck:


Ja,Ja...I don't forsee my home being attacked by a bunch of ninjas if that happen I will learn how to pray fast!!!

My point is that is easier to take a shotgun from someone than a revolver.

I have NOT seen any ninjas around latetly!!!:smt1099


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## scooter (May 9, 2006)

S&W Tiger said:


> I have NOT seen any ninjas around latetly!!!:smt1099


Stay up all night some night and sit in your living room with just a flashlight till ya hear a noise then shine the flashlight at the noise and ...wa la..........................


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

I got a good friend in Columbus, Ohio who is a expert in Judo I'll ask him about it. I am sure if your are with in arms lenght of each other a Judo expert could disarm you in the blink of an eye. If theres 8' or 10' he better be real good is all I can say. Most of these punks never make it through judo schools and such. It's a lot of work to get really good at.


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## Nra-Life-Member (Mar 16, 2007)

bpranney said:


> Shotgun all the way. Nothing is more intimidating than hearing someone pump that first round into the chamber, espically in the dead of night when it's quiet


If you are going to stay where you are a shotgun / long rifle is fine. If you are going to MOVE around (maybe a corner or two) with any long gun - may present a problem.. A handgun is much better (IMHO) for clearing rooms .


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## Mike Barham (Mar 30, 2006)

Before my deployment, I used to keep an M4gery available for home defense. I vastly prefer the M4 to a shotgun for HD. It's shorter and far more ergonomic, kicks much less, is much faster to shoot accurately, and holds far more ammo. With light JHPs (I used 50 grain Federals), overpenetration on a human target is not a concern. Wall penetration is a concern with any ammo that will put a deep enough hole in a person, shotguns included.

Room clearing with an M4 is no big deal, even though Mas Ayoob makes it out to be the most dangerous thing in the world. In urban ops training here at Bragg, I cleared dozens of rooms with an M4. It wasn't any harder than doing it with a pistol, and the M4 is so much more effective than a pistol that comparisons are ridiculous.

Racking a pump shotgun to scare the guy is generally bad policy. If you're going to shoot the guy, shoot him and be done with it. If seeing your gun doesn't scare him away, loading it probably won't either. Anyway, ARs make nice clickity-clack noises when loaded, too.

An "M4" in 9mm gives you most of the advantages of the design, but lacks the power of the .223 round. However, if the range you have available only allows pistol ammo, your decision is made for you.

All that said, I am very likely selling my AR when my deployment ends. An 18-round Glock pistol seems ample for house defense.


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## Baldy (Jun 21, 2006)

Talked to my buddy in Columbus who is a judo expert and he says there has to be a pause for him to react and that it's only good from about 7 to 10'. Then he could disarm about 95% of the people. Without the pause you still better be a good shot or get lucky. The pause he is talking about is only 1 to 2 seconds. If someone is in my house I am shooting on site.
He does not compete anymore but is still a referee at many national matches in the USA and Canada.


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## rob61590 (Dec 21, 2006)

:minigun: :smt027


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## Revolver (Aug 26, 2006)

What bullets are well suited for human-sized targets in .223? I thought that the HP's would only be good for varmints. I have some 60gr Hornady V-Max bullets for varmints but didn't think it wise for use against larger targets. For everything else I have M885 62gr bullets. Am I wrong?


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